MBB: Duke @ Syracuse (Sat 2/1, 8:00 pm, ESPN) Pre-Game and In-Game Thread

[DavidBenAkiva]

February begins on Saturday and the Blue Devils begin their month with a 3-game road stretch. Duke will finish the season by playing 8 of its final 9 games in North Carolina with a sole trip up to Charlottesville to face Virginia looming. First, though, Coach K and company will travel up north to the Carrier Dome on Saturday night to go up against the fightin' Boeheim's.

We find Syracuse in an all-too familiar place: The Bubble. The Orange have just snapped a 5-game win streak at the hands of Clemson on Tuesday night. Before that, they had an overtime win on the road against UVA and close wins against Virginia Tech, Notre Dame, and Pitt. Cuse has split the season series against UVA and Notre Dame with each winning on the road. Sporting a better offense than defense in this year's version of the 2-3 zone, Syracuse has a trio of shooters on the perimeter with JR Elijah Hughes (6'6"), SO Buddy Boeheim (6'6"), and FR Joseph Girard III (6'1"). Hughes is having an excellent season, leading the Orange with 19.3 points / 5.2 rebounds / 4.1 assists per game. Hughes is the primary playmaker for the Orange on offense and is 3rd on the team in rebounds. He is doing it all this year. Boeheim, the son of the Hall of Fame coach, has made a significant leap in his sophomore year and is providing excellent shooting and scoring, to the tune of 16 points per game to go along with 2 rebounds and 2 assists. The freshman Girard, a prep legend of sorts from upstate New York, is also chipping in 12 points / 2.8 rebs /3.5 assists. The "Big 3" of Hughes, Boeheim, and Girard see a ton of minutes. Hughes hardly ever takes a seat on the bench. FR Brycen Goodine, a top 100 recruit (odd that Girard was not), gets a few minutes but seem to be adjusting to the college game. Jr. Howard Washington also provides a few minutes here and there but has yet to score more than a single FG in a game this year.

Up front, utility man extraordinaire JR F Marek Dolezaj (6'10") from Slovakia is the 4th player that sees the court nearly as much as the three lead guards. Dolezaj doesn't shoot the ball and is lightly used on offense in general, but he is a guy that does everything else, including cleaning up misses, blocking a shot here and there, forcing bad passes, and generally being a pest. You'd love him if he was wearing your team's jersey. He is very good at drawing fouls, taking even more free throws than Hughes on the season. The other starter up front is the big man, Bourama Sidibe, from Mali. The 6'10" JR is a good rebounder and will block a shot or two. He is an afterthought on offense, even less so than Dolezaj. Sidibe is big and long, but not quick as big and long or skilled as recent 'Cuse centers like Pascahal Chukwu or Rakeem Christmas. He is so-so on the inside and fills his role. The Coach Boeheim also gets minutes up front from Quebecois FR F Quincy Gurrier (6'7"), who has some talent if not results in his first go around in college. He is having trouble shooting the ball but is pretty nifty around the basket. Sidibe will get a few backup minutes from F C Jesse Edwards (6'11"), a native of the Netherlands. It is an international frontcourt.

The Orange are getting it done behind the arc this year. They take a lot of 3's and make them at a decent clip. They also score around the basket quite effectively. While the FR Girard is taking more than 2/3rds of his shots from behind the arc on the season (and hitting 33.8% of his shots from 3), Hughes, Dolezaj, and Boeheim like to get to the rim and are effective when they get there. On defense, it's a typical Syracuse zone. They block a lot of shots. Sidibe and Dolezaj make it difficult to score around the rim. But Cuse also gives up a TON of offensive rebounds. Opponents are getting nearly 1/3rd of their own misses. Duke is very good on the offensive glass, in particular Vernon Carey. Javin DeLaurier is also quite good at getting missed shots. Wendell Moore, who was in warmups prior the Pitt game, has gotten a fair share of offensive boards as has Matthew Hurt and Cassius Stanley. Moore is a guy that might do very well against 'Cuse. He can operate out of the high post and pass it to open players on the wing or drive and dish to Carey or DeLaurier. When Pitt threw a zone against Duke in the second half, Coach K used Jack White in that top-of-the-key role. He was ok in that role. I could also see Matthew Hurt doing well in that spot, using his height to see over the defense.

Duke is going to have to shoot it well to win this game. Fortunately, this is a good shooting team. There will be open shots on the wings against the 2-3. Fortunately, Duke has a number of decent shooters to pass it to. And Carey is going to have to put a lot of pressure on Sidibe and Dolezaj. Syracuse does not have a lot of depth behind those two, so putting one or both in foul trouble could do wonders. On defense, Duke will have to contain the shooters while not allowing open driving lanes. Syracuse doesn't have a traditional point guard and has done a good job of limiting shooters. In terms of 3-point rate, Duke is 5th in the nation in limiting looks from 3. Preventing the Orange from finding passing lanes on back cuts or drives will be key. Hopefully Moore will be there to match up with Boeheim and Hughes. While Baker and White should find open shots on offense, neither brings the kind of skills that Moore has to combat the zone and attack on defense. Either way, it should be a heck of fight upstate.

[Truth&Justise]

I assume Syracuse is planning to pack the Dome again?

[CrazyNotCrazie]

February begins on Saturday and the Blue Devils begin their month with a 3-game road stretch. Duke will finish the season by playing 8 of its final 9 games in North Carolina with a sole trip up to Charlottesville to face Virginia looming. First, though, Coach K and company will travel up north to the Carrier Dome on Saturday night to go up against the fightin' Boeheim's.

We find Syracuse in an all-too familiar place: The Bubble. The Orange have just snapped a 5-game win streak at the hands of Clemson on Tuesday night. Before that, they had an overtime win on the road against UVA and close wins against Virginia Tech, Notre Dame, and Pitt. Cuse has split the season series against UVA and Notre Dame with each winning on the road. Sporting a better offense than defense in this year's version of the 2-3 zone, Syracuse has a trio of shooters on the perimeter with JR Elijah Hughes (6'6"), SO Buddy Boeheim (6'6"), and FR Joseph Girard III (6'1"). Hughes is having an excellent season, leading the Orange with 19.3 points / 5.2 rebounds / 4.1 assists per game. Hughes is the primary playmaker for the Orange on offense and is 3rd on the team in rebounds. He is doing it all this year. Boeheim, the son of the Hall of Fame coach, has made a significant leap in his sophomore year and is providing excellent shooting and scoring, to the tune of 16 points per game to go along with 2 rebounds and 2 assists. The freshman Girard, a prep legend of sorts from upstate New York, is also chipping in 12 points / 2.8 rebs /3.5 assists. The "Big 3" of Hughes, Boeheim, and Girard see a ton of minutes. Hughes hardly ever takes a seat on the bench. FR Brycen Goodine, a top 100 recruit (odd that Girard was not), gets a few minutes but seem to be adjusting to the college game. Jr. Howard Washington also provides a few minutes here and there but has yet to score more than a single FG in a game this year.

Up front, utility man extraordinaire JR F Marek Dolezaj (6'10") from Slovakia is the 4th player that sees the court nearly as much as the three lead guards. Dolezaj doesn't shoot the ball and is lightly used on offense in general, but he is a guy that does everything else, including cleaning up misses, blocking a shot here and there, forcing bad passes, and generally being a pest. You'd love him if he was wearing your team's jersey. He is very good at drawing fouls, taking even more free throws than Hughes on the season. The other starter up front is the big man, Bourama Sidibe, from Mali. The 6'10" JR is a good rebounder and will block a shot or two. He is an afterthought on offense, even less so than Dolezaj. Sidibe is big and long, but not quick as big and long or skilled as recent 'Cuse centers like Pascahal Chukwu or Rakeem Christmas. He is so-so on the inside and fills his role. The Coach Boeheim also gets minutes up front from Quebecois FR F Quincy Gurrier (6'7"), who has some talent if not results in his first go around in college. He is having trouble shooting the ball but is pretty nifty around the basket. Sidibe will get a few backup minutes from F C Jesse Edwards (6'11"), a native of the Netherlands. It is an international frontcourt.

The Orange are getting it done behind the arc this year. They take a lot of 3's and make them at a decent clip. They also score around the basket quite effectively. While the FR Girard is taking more than 2/3rds of his shots from behind the arc on the season (and hitting 33.8% of his shots from 3), Hughes, Dolezaj, and Boeheim like to get to the rim and are effective when they get there. On defense, it's a typical Syracuse zone. They block a lot of shots. Sidibe and Dolezaj make it difficult to score around the rim. But Cuse also gives up a TON of offensive rebounds. Opponents are getting nearly 1/3rd of their own misses. Duke is very good on the offensive glass, in particular Vernon Carey. Javin DeLaurier is also quite good at getting missed shots. Wendell Moore, who was in warmups prior the Pitt game, has gotten a fair share of offensive boards as has Matthew Hurt and Cassius Stanley. Moore is a guy that might do very well against 'Cuse. He can operate out of the high post and pass it to open players on the wing or drive and dish to Carey or DeLaurier. When Pitt threw a zone against Duke in the second half, Coach K used Jack White in that top-of-the-key role. He was ok in that role. I could also see Matthew Hurt doing well in that spot, using his height to see over the defense.

Duke is going to have to shoot it well to win this game. Fortunately, this is a good shooting team. There will be open shots on the wings against the 2-3. Fortunately, Duke has a number of decent shooters to pass it to. And Carey is going to have to put a lot of pressure on Sidibe and Dolezaj. Syracuse does not have a lot of depth behind those two, so putting one or both in foul trouble could do wonders. On defense, Duke will have to contain the shooters while not allowing open driving lanes. Syracuse doesn't have a traditional point guard and has done a good job of limiting shooters. In terms of 3-point rate, Duke is 5th in the nation in limiting looks from 3. Preventing the Orange from finding passing lanes on back cuts or drives will be key. Hopefully Moore will be there to match up with Boeheim and Hughes. While Baker and White should find open shots on offense, neither brings the kind of skills that Moore has to combat the zone and attack on defense. Either way, it should be a heck of fight upstate.

Great preview - thanks. I will always remember Dolezaj as the guy who had the cajones (or lack of common sense, depending on your perspective) to take a charge from Zion despite weighing about 100 pounds less. I think that fits well your description of him.

[ndkjr70]

When Wendell Moore went down, this was the game I had in mind in an "oh no" kind of way. Moore is the kind of athlete that would thrive in the middle of the zone. His ability to pull down rebounds, his willingness (earlier in the season, perhaps to a fault) to press in transition and take hard drives to the basket will be HUGE if he can play on Saturday.

If he can't, I'm nervous. Pitt switched to the zone and our offense looked petrified and confused. In a loud, difficult place to play that scares me. I remember AOC's mini "coming out party" was last year against Syracuse -- if we can get *any* scoring from he and Javin I think we take this game and cover the spread. But if our guys are struggling to shoot (which happens frequently in the Carrier Dome with the weird depth perception behind the hoops) this could be a not-totally-unsurprising L.

[fuse]

Need to start the gauntlet that is the February schedule strong.

Who is the zone buster at the top of the key- Vernon, Hurt, White, someone else?

[uh_no]

Need to start the gauntlet that is the February schedule strong.

Who is the zone buster at the top of the key- Vernon, Hurt, White, someone else?

it should be moore were he back...IMO.

But I think it has to be white or carey.

[CDu]

When Wendell Moore went down, this was the game I had in mind in an "oh no" kind of way. Moore is the kind of athlete that would thrive in the middle of the zone. His ability to pull down rebounds, his willingness (earlier in the season, perhaps to a fault) to press in transition and take hard drives to the basket will be HUGE if he can play on Saturday.

If he can't, I'm nervous. Pitt switched to the zone and our offense looked petrified and confused. In a loud, difficult place to play that scares me. I remember AOC's mini "coming out party" was last year against Syracuse -- if we can get *any* scoring from he and Javin I think we take this game and cover the spread. But if our guys are struggling to shoot (which happens frequently in the Carrier Dome with the weird depth perception behind the hoops) this could be a not-totally-unsurprising L.

It's a little different in that Pitt threw in some random zone looks, including a 1-3-1 at one point. I doubt Coach K or the players were ready for that. I don't think their zone would have worked for 40 minutes at all like it did for a brief stretch last night.

Syracuse, meanwhile, runs their 2-3 zone religiously. Coach K knows that zone, and he knows what to expect from it. We'll likely be spending most of the practice time we have preparing to attack that zone.

I also think that Stanley is a pretty good weapon against a zone, given his proclivity for hitting those 10-footers along with his athleticism. Hurt seems like a decent weapon to face a zone too, from anywhere in the court but also definitely in the free throw area. And heck, pulling Carey up there to pass over/around the zone to a cutter is not a bad strategy given his passing skills.

On top of that, the Orange haven't actually been very good defensively this year. They are comfortably outside the top-100 in defensive efficiency on the season. They aren't as long and as athletic as they usually are, especially on the perimeter. And they don't have the bevy of depth inside either.

[CDu]

As mentioned by DBA, this Syracuse team is a bit different than previous iterations. They are notably better offensively than defensively. The staple of the Syracuse program has historically been having long, athletic, versatile wings and forwards to make that 2-3 zone daunting, and having monsters in the middle blocking shots. Well, quite simply, this year's team doesn't have that so much.

Centers: Sidibe is their center. He's long and lean, but VERY low on skill. He pretty much doesn't shoot it outside of 5 feet of the rim, and almost exclusively shoots from assists. What he doesn't score on assists he gets off of putbacks. He isn't a post-up threat at all. So in that sense, he's a favorable matchup for Carey. Defensively, Sidibe rebounds well and blocks shots well. But Sidibe also commits a ton of fouls, which means he's on the bench a lot. He's committed 4 or more fouls in 16 of the Cuse's 21 games. I'd expect more of the same this weekend. Behind him, the Cuse get really small. Dolezaj can slide over at center, but he's not as imposing a shotblocker as Sidibe. Dolezaj is a pretty poor rebounder for his height, in part because he's super skinny. He's not a great shooter, but is decent from the midrange and is willing to go hard to the rim and draw fouls. Jesse Edwards is the only other big on the roster, and he's a super-skinny freshman who has played sparingly in ACC play.

Forwards: Dolezaj starts alongside the Cuse's best player, Elijah Hughes. Hughes is, in some ways, a bit reminiscent of Tyus Battle: a 6'6", long and athletic wing forward who does a bit of everything. He's a good athlete, solid ballhandler and passer, and willing to mix it up for sure. He's a streak shooter who takes a lot of 3s, but unlike most of the players on the team he's a multi-dimensional scoring threat. He can get to the rim, which separates him from the guards, and he can shoot the 3 which separates him from the bigs. Behind those two is the team's sixth man Guerrier. Guerrier plays an undersized PF, but he's super tough and physical. He's a very good rebounder and a solid shotblocker despite being just 6'7". Offensively, he's in attack mode all the time. He will occasionally shoot from the perimeter, but it usually goes poorly. He is like a (very) poor man's RJ Barrett in his approach - downhill all the time. If only his skill level matched his effort and athleticism.

Wing: Buddy Boeheim is the starter at SG. Boeheim is basically Joey Baker but with a full-time role. He isn't very athletic, doesn't have much ballhandling skill, and does very little other than shoot 3s. But he can really shoot those 3s: 40% on about 9 attempts per game. Running him off the 3pt line will be important. Defensively, he's somewhat hidden by the zone. But he's not much of a factor defensively: doesn't force turnovers, doesn't make impact plays. The Orange don't really have another wing.

Guards: Joe Girard starts at PG, although he's more of an undersized SG than a true PG. Girard is kind of like a smaller version of JJ Redick: terrific outside shooter who is clever with the ball and can hit a variety of types of shots. But he's much smaller than Redick (3-4 inches shorter), and is similarly not explosive athletically. So he's been largely limited to taking shots from the perimeter. Not that this is a bad thing, as he's a terrific shooter. But he's not a guy who is going to attack the rim. The backup PG is Howard Washington. Washington is not very big and not very athletic. He's a smart caretaker of a PG, but little more than that. Washington plays less than 10 mpg, and rarely makes an impact.

The lack of size and athleticism on the perimeter really hurts the Orange's defense. They just don't have the stifling defense of years past. Also, the lack of a backup to Sidibe means they don't consistently have a shotblocking presence inside. They also are atrocious on the defensive glass, which is an area we typically do quite well. We should be able to score against them. On offense, they rely HEAVILY on making 3s. So in that sense, we should match up well in that we contest 3s really well. The interesting thing will be to see how we match up with Hughes, who is really their only dynamic offensive player. I think Goldwire would handle Girard very well, and White can defend Guerrier. The rest are largely secondary players for whom we can match up well. But containing Hughes without leaving Girard and Boeheim open and without allowing easy lobs to Sidibe will be pretty crucial. Tre Jones would be giving up a lot of height, while Stanley would be giving up a lot of strength. My guess is we put Jones on Hughes, but we'll see. This is definitely an area where having Moore available would be nice.

[DUKIE V(A)]

AOC has been really good against Syracuse the last few games. I wonder if he gets an opportunity on Saturday. I think we will need at least one of AOC, Baker, and/or Jack to step up from three in order to win.

[UrinalCake]

it should be moore were he back...IMO.

But I think it has to be white or carey.

I would have said Hurt or Stanley. So I guess that goes to show, o body really knows with this team. I remember in one of our games last season we even used Tre in the middle of the zone for a few possessions.

[uh_no]

I would have said Hurt or Stanley. So I guess that goes to show, o body really knows with this team. I remember in one of our games last season we even used Tre in the middle of the zone for a few possessions.

problem with hurt is he is too good a 3 point threat to waste in the middle of the zone. moore has a 5" longer wingspan than stanley.

[DavidBenAkiva]

problem with hurt is he is too good a 3 point threat to waste in the middle of the zone. moore has a 5" longer wingspan than stanley.

I agree on that. I'd want Stanely and Hurt on the wings, hunting open shots and crashing the glass for the weakside rebound.

If, and this is a big if, Joey Baker or AOC can guard either Girard or Boeheim, I expect that we would see Hurt and Baker/O'Connell on the wings with Tre running the point. That leaves a few options for the top-of-the-key positions. Moore would be my first choice if he is healthy. I think White can do it. I could also see Jordan Goldwire taking that spot, even though entry passes to him would be more difficult. The Syracuse wings are not as long and quick as they have been in recent years. Goldwire could thrive in that spot or switch with Tre Jones to take open 3's.

We live in the Upside Down this year where we want White and Goldwire to take open 3's. What a world!

[Troublemaker]

When we've encountered zone defense this season, we've most often used Jack as the guy who flashes to the FT line and makes quick passes back out to the perimeter, but I hope we can improve on that with more preparation time. It's actually not an awful idea; you don't actually want to put a shooter in there because taking midrange jumpers is inefficient. (In fact, when Duke used zone in 2018, we left the FT line area wide open and climbed the defensive rankings into being a top 10 defense as opponents couldn't shoot that shot efficiently enough. So Coach K knows this.) Using the FT area as a passing hub to create open 3-pt shots is good, BUT you also want someone in there who can threaten the rim. Jack's not much of a driver unfortunately, and he's probably not such a good passer that he can make the second pass to Vernon in the slot (near the rim). When Theo Pinson destroyed Duke's zone in 2018, it was because he could make the quick passes from the FT area *both* to the back line or out for 3 points *and* he could drive to the rim for layups or lob dunks. We don't really have a guy like that.

The closest we can come to the ideal is probably Vernon. He can faceup drive to the rim (how he played in high school) or make passes out for three. *If* we don't use Vernon there, I hope he gobbles up lots of offensive rebounds and/or we just have a hot shooting day because the offense probably isn't going to look good.

[fuse]

When we've encountered zone defense this season, we've most often used Jack as the guy who flashes to the FT line and makes quick passes back out to the perimeter, but I hope we can improve on that with more preparation time. It's actually not an awful idea; you don't actually want to put a shooter in there because taking midrange jumpers is inefficient. (In fact, when Duke used zone in 2018, we left the FT line area wide open and climbed the defensive rankings into being a top 10 defense as opponents couldn't shoot that shot efficiently enough. So Coach K knows this.) Using the FT area as a passing hub to create open 3-pt shots is good, BUT you also want someone in there who can threaten the rim. Jack's not much of a driver unfortunately, and he's probably not such a good passer that he can make the second pass to Vernon in the slot (near the rim). When Theo Pinson destroyed Duke's zone in 2018, it was because he could make the quick passes from the FT area *both* to the back line or out for 3 points *and* he could drive to the rim for layups or lob dunks. We don't really have a guy like that.

The closest we can come to the ideal is probably Vernon. He can faceup drive to the rim (how he played in high school) or make passes out for three. *If* we don't use Vernon there, I hope he gobbles up lots of offensive rebounds and/or we just have a hot shooting day because the offense probably isn't going to look good.

The best midrange shooter on the team by my eye test is Tre. Would be pretty interesting to see Jordan up top (or whoever) and Tre at the top of the key. <now ducking as all the real basketball experts blow my idea to smithereens>

[DavidBenAkiva]

The best midrange shooter on the team by my eye test is Tre. Would be pretty interesting to see Jordan up top (or whoever) and Tre at the top of the key. <now ducking as all the real basketball experts blow my idea to smithereens>

By the stats, the best midrange shooter is Joey Baker. Bart Torvik dot com (http://www.barttorvik.com/team.php?team=Duke) has shooting percentages for player. The Far 2 leaders are:

Joey Baker: 12-24 (.500)
Alex O'Connell: 12-25 (.480)
Wendell Moore: 10-23 (.435)
Cassius Stanley: 13-30 (.433)
Tre Jones: 35-84 (.417)
Jordan Goldwire: 5-12 (.417)
Vernon Carey: 20-50 (.400)
Matthew Hurt: 10-28 (.357)

[sagegrouse]

By the stats, the best midrange shooter is Joey Baker. Bart Torvik dot com (http://www.barttorvik.com/team.php?team=Duke) has shooting percentages for player. The Far 2 leaders are:

Joey Baker: 12-24 (.500)
Alex O'Connell: 12-25 (.480)
Wendell Moore: 10-23 (.435)
Cassius Stanley: 13-30 (.433)
Tre Jones: 35-84 (.417)
Jordan Goldwire: 5-12 (.417)
Vernon Carey: 20-50 (.400)
Matthew Hurt: 10-28 (.357)

Given the number of attempts, the +/- for Baker and O'Connell are about ten percentage points (40-60). For Tre, with over three times as many shots, it is about five percentage points (37-47). I don't think (my a priori assessment) that Joey and Alex are gonna shoot 50-plus percent on mid-range shots. Case not proven.

[Troublemaker]

The best midrange shooter on the team by my eye test is Tre. Would be pretty interesting to see Jordan up top (or whoever) and Tre at the top of the key. <now ducking as all the real basketball experts blow my idea to smithereens>

Yeah, I don't mind it (in fact, I kind of like it) when teams are able to get it to their PG in the FT area since I view it as more of a passing hub, anyway, i.e. Tre may or may not be a good midrange shooter, but I wouldn't want him shooting it anyway. However, usually you see teams throw it to a 6'6" guy or taller in there (and often it's their big man) because the height makes for bigger/better passing targets, but *if* you can execute the pass to get it to the PG in there despite him being a small target, it's not a bad idea. Also, not sure Tre would really be a huge drive threat from in there, as I don't see him finishing over the Cuse bigs.

[Reddevil]

I love the zone buster discussion - the guy that occupies the FT line and receives the ball and either passes or shoots. My initial thought was Hurt since he has the size, shot, and passing ability to make it happen. As others have pointed out, this may be a waste of his 3-pt shooting ability, so then Jack or Vernon could be good options. Maybe they will keep them guessing and rotate. Of course the best zone buster would be Jack Givens (I know - WAAAAYYYYY TOO SOON, and I fully expect to be flamed)!

[MChambers]

I love the zone buster discussion - the guy that occupies the FT line and receives the ball and either passes or shoots. My initial thought was Hurt since he has the size, shot, and passing ability to make it happen. As others have pointed out, this may be a waste of his 3-pt shooting ability, so then Jack or Vernon could be good options. Maybe they will keep them guessing and rotate. Of course the best zone buster would be Jack Givens (I know - WAAAAYYYYY TOO SOON, and I fully expect to be flamed)!

Way too soon. Only 42 years ago. That was soooo painful.

[BLPOG]

I love the zone buster discussion - the guy that occupies the FT line and receives the ball and either passes or shoots. My initial thought was Hurt since he has the size, shot, and passing ability to make it happen. As others have pointed out, this may be a waste of his 3-pt shooting ability, so then Jack or Vernon could be good options. Maybe they will keep them guessing and rotate. Of course the best zone buster would be Jack Givens (I know - WAAAAYYYYY TOO SOON, and I fully expect to be flamed)!

If you get flamed for Givens, does that mean your Goose is cooked?

[Fish80]

Given the number of attempts, the +/- for Baker and O'Connell are about ten percentage points (40-60). For Tre, with over three times as many shots, it is about five percentage points (37-47). I don't think (my a priori assessment) that Joey and Alex are gonna shoot 50-plus percent on mid-range shots. Case not proven.

Perhaps I misunderstand ... Joey and Alex have shot ~50% on mid-range shots. Why do you think that won’t continue?

[House P]

Perhaps I misunderstand ... Joey and Alex have shot ~50% on mid-range shots. Why do you think that won’t continue?

I am not trying to speak for Sage*, but the low number of mid-range shots for Joey and Alex suggests the potential for outlier results, especially when you consider that ACC players overall have shot 36.6% (1880-5131) from mid range this season. Additionally, none of the 63 ACC players who have attempted 30 or more mid-range shots have hit more than 50% and only 9 of the 63 have hit more than 45%. Finally, Alex made 37% (14-37) of his mid-range shots prior to this season. Joey was 0-1 last year.

All these factors make me think Alex and Joey are probably due for some regression to the mean and won't make 50% of their mid-range shots from here on out.

That being said, my argument is a bit semantic. Alex and Joey still might be Duke's two best mid-range shooters. I just think it is likely that they will end the season with a lower mid-range FG% than they have today.




*If my years of reading DBR have taught me anything, it is that Sage has not trouble speaking for himself* :D

[gofurman]

Quote Originally Posted by DavidBenAkiva View Post
By the stats, the best midrange shooter is Joey Baker. Bart Torvik dot com (http://www.barttorvik.com/team.php?team=Duke) has shooting percentages for player. The Far 2 leaders are:

Joey Baker: 12-24 (.500)
Alex O'Connell: 12-25 (.480)
Wendell Moore: 10-23 (.435)
Cassius Stanley: 13-30 (.433)
Tre Jones: 35-84 (.417)
Jordan Goldwire: 5-12 (.417)
Vernon Carey: 20-50 (.400)
Matthew Hurt: 10-28 (.357)
-----
Given the number of attempts, the +/- for Baker and O'Connell are about ten percentage points (40-60). For Tre, with over three times as many shots, it is about five percentage points (37-47). I don't think (my a priori assessment) that Joey and Alex are gonna shoot 50-plus percent on mid-range shots. Case not proven.

Sage Grouse
---

agree w Sage. 12-24 isn't really making me super confident. Maybe 10 of those were vs UCA or Wofford.. From the eye test and the numbers above (good data btw) I would want to put Tre (shooting and passing ability) or Stanley at the FT line. stanley with shooting and also driving to rim

[kako]

By the stats, the best midrange shooter is Joey Baker. Bart Torvik dot com (http://www.barttorvik.com/team.php?team=Duke) has shooting percentages for player. The Far 2 leaders are:

Joey Baker: 12-24 (.500)
Alex O'Connell: 12-25 (.480)
Wendell Moore: 10-23 (.435)
Cassius Stanley: 13-30 (.433)
Tre Jones: 35-84 (.417)
Jordan Goldwire: 5-12 (.417)
Vernon Carey: 20-50 (.400)
Matthew Hurt: 10-28 (.357)

Interesting analytics, thanks. This would suggest that the current philosophy of shooting 3s and layups/dunks is correct. However, analytics don't take into account the defensive situation while shooting. I may be too old school, but a solid midrange shot still beats a look from 3 most times in my book. Case in point is Durant's game (yeah, he's a generational player, but still...). Yes, I digress...

One thing this data does show is how poorly Jones is shooting and at what volume he's doing it. More than 50% more midrange shots than the next guy with a subpar percentage. Given Jones' percentage, it would make sense from him to pass the ball if he can. One might argue how many of these shots were taken when the shot clock was running down, and he was the last option. Could be. But in general perhaps he should be always looking to pass and only take shots when they are a solid shot (even from 3), unless it's a layup. I had been thinking that tough runners in the lane don't seem to be working well for him. Could we get DeLaurier to be a lob toy for Jones and the others? He's a foul machine but very athletic. If JaVale McGee was able to revitalize his career like that, maybe DeLaurier could do so down the stretch.

9F

[Kedsy]

I may be too old school, but a solid midrange shot still beats a look from 3 most times in my book.

Well, "old school," there was no three point shot. Once that shot existed, your idea is just plain wrong. A decent three-point shooter taking even a somewhat open shot beats almost anyone taking a midrange shot, pretty much always. Even in the NBA, the league average for two-point jumpers is no better than 40%. To beat that as a three-point shooter, all you'd have to hit is 27% from three, and almost anyone can do that. You can argue that you have to take two-point jumpers to keep defenses honest so they don't sit on threes and layups, but you really can't argue that the two-point jumper isn't the most inefficient shot in the game.


Could we get DeLaurier to be a lob toy for Jones and the others? He's a foul machine but very athletic.

In his past 13 games, Javin has only committed 3.6 fouls per 40 minutes. That's far, far away from a "foul machine" (for comparison's sake, Vernon Carey has committed 3.8 fouls per 40 in the same 13 games). Maybe we can make up some new reason to criticize Javin, because the "foul machine" thing is old (and outdated) news.

[Saratoga2]

Interesting analytics, thanks. This would suggest that the current philosophy of shooting 3s and layups/dunks is correct. However, analytics don't take into account the defensive situation while shooting. I may be too old school, but a solid midrange shot still beats a look from 3 most times in my book. Case in point is Durant's game (yeah, he's a generational player, but still...). Yes, I digress...

One thing this data does show is how poorly Jones is shooting and at what volume he's doing it. More than 50% more midrange shots than the next guy with a subpar percentage. Given Jones' percentage, it would make sense from him to pass the ball if he can. One might argue how many of these shots were taken when the shot clock was running down, and he was the last option. Could be. But in general perhaps he should be always looking to pass and only take shots when they are a solid shot (even from 3), unless it's a layup. I had been thinking that tough runners in the lane don't seem to be working well for him. Could we get DeLaurier to be a lob toy for Jones and the others? He's a foul machine but very athletic. If JaVale McGee was able to revitalize his career like that, maybe DeLaurier could do so down the stretch.

9F

If DeLaurier had the hands to catch the ball it might work, but he doesn't seem to be the right guy for that assignment.

[Tooold]

I am not trying to speak for Sage*, but the low number of mid-range shots for Joey and Alex suggests the potential for outlier results, especially when you consider that ACC players overall have shot 36.6% (1880-5131) from mid range :D

Statistics can be so misleading. Could it also be possible that Joey and AOC have shorter leashes...if they miss a shot or two they might get yanked (thereby potentially avoiding a greater number of misses) while Tre is allowed to keep playing (and shooting) even if he misses a few. So the shooting percentages for Joey and AOC reflect a greater percentage of “hot” games. If they aren’t hitting their shots, they aren’t allowed to continue.

[House P]

Statistics can be so misleading. Could it also be possible that Joey and AOC have shorter leashes...if they miss a shot or two they might get yanked (thereby potentially avoiding a greater number of misses) while Tre is allowed to keep playing (and shooting) even if he misses a few. So the shooting percentages for Joey and AOC reflect a greater percentage of “hot” games. If they aren’t hitting their shots, they aren’t allowed to continue.

Without getting into whether or not the "hot hand" exists, I agree with your general point that overall shooting percentages are hard to compare between players with different usage patterns. This is especially true if one of the players in the comparison has only taken 24 or 25 shots like Joey and Alex.

As I said in my post, Joey and Alex may well be Duke's best mid-range shooters, but having a sample size of 24 and 25 shots doesn't make me particularly confident that either would continue to make ~50% of their shots going forward. This is mostly because almost nobody shoots 50% from mid-range in college if they have a large enough sample. Of the 265 major conference players who have taken 40 or more mid range shots, only 5 have made more than 50% of them.



A decent three-point shooter taking even a somewhat open shot beats almost anyone taking a midrange shot, pretty much always. Even in the NBA, the league average for two-point jumpers is no better than 40%. To beat that as a three-point shooter, all you'd have to hit is 27% from three, and almost anyone can do that.

It is even worse in college. Major conference D1 teams have shot 35.6% from mid-range so far this season. Shooting 35.6% from two is about as efficient as shooting 23.7% from three. This gives you some additional perspective as to why, as Troublemaker noted, zone teams like Syracuse aren't so worried about giving up the foul line jumper.





######### Speaking of mid-range shots, here are some weird statistically quirks I found when browsing Bart Torvik's site.

- Looking at game-by-game stats, it seems that Alex started the season shooting 0-6 from mid-range. Since then, he has shot 12-19 (63%) from mid-range. While I would be thrilled if he shot 63% on mid-range shots from here on out, I wouldn't expect it.

- Percentage wise, the worst mid-range shooter in major college basketball is former Duke recruit Boogie Ellis. Ellis has made only 3 of his 33 mid range shots this year. Given the low sample size and his reputation as a good shooter, I doubt Ellis is going to shoot under 10% from mid-range over the rest of his career.

- Jack White has attempted 66 shots this year, but only 1 was classified as a mid-range jumper. That means that only 1.5% of Jack's shots have been from mid-range, by far the lowest percentage of any major conference player this year. FWIW, Jack has taken only 8 mid-range shots in his entire Duke career (and had made only one).

[Music man55]

I hope our shooters are on for this bout with the 'cuse. That would really open things for Cary on the inside. Syracuse has nobody with the size to match up with him.I still believe that the 9 or 10 player rotation we enjoyed earlier this season is over, especially when Wendell gets back. K has his mind made up it seems to me, so I don't expect to see Baker more than 7 or 8 minutes per game at best, with AOC even getting less.It is almost Feburary you know!

[Natty_B]

Important analysis here but it seems like (based on their social media avatars) that Duke will wear the Gothic D uni's tomorrow.

[budwom]

I hope our shooters are on for this bout with the 'cuse. That would really open things for Cary on the inside. Syracuse has nobody with the size to match up with him.I still believe that the 9 or 10 player rotation we enjoyed earlier this season is over, especially when Wendell gets back. K has his mind made up it seems to me, so I don't expect to see Baker more than 7 or 8 minutes per game at best, with AOC even getting less.It is almost Feburary you know!

I suspect we'll remain in the offensive doldrums, and therefore it'll probably be a very tough evening. Can't imagine it being easy.

[jipops]

With Cuse's lack of athleticism on the perimter, I hope we take advantage of getting inside the zone instead of just chucking up 3's. This seems like something we should be able to take advantage of with a pg like Jones. Drive into the lane, get into the middle of the zone and get them off balance... have Cassius hover around the free throw line ... hopefully draw some fouls.

I'm very concerned about our defense in this one though, especially after the Pitt game which seemed to create a rather ominous tone on where the defense is right now. It seems to have been on a downturn the last 4 games and the Orange currently have a top 20 offense according to kenpom. I can see Cuse's shooters keeping them in this one and potentially grabbing the win.

[UrinalCake]

A decent three-point shooter taking even a somewhat open shot beats almost anyone taking a midrange shot, pretty much always.... You can argue that you have to take two-point jumpers to keep defenses honest so they don't sit on threes and layups, but you really can't argue that the two-point jumper isn't the most inefficient shot in the game.

I’ll make that argument. You can’t just look at the percentages in a vacuum and say that three pointers are better than twos. Defenses are trying to prevent open threes, so when they play up then your natural counter has to be to drive past them and take the pull-up two. Does a wide open two point jumper have a higher expected value than a contested three pointer? I don’t know, you could probably provide the math, but my gut says yes.

[Rich]

With Cuse's lack of athleticism on the perimter, I hope we take advantage of getting inside the zone instead of just chucking up 3's. This seems like something we should be able to take advantage of with a pg like Jones. Drive into the lane, get into the middle of the zone and get them off balance... have Cassius hover around the free throw line ... hopefully draw some fouls.

I'm very concerned about our defense in this one though, especially after the Pitt game which seemed to create a rather ominous tone on where the defense is right now. It seems to have been on a downturn the last 4 games and the Orange currently have a top 20 offense according to kenpom. I can see Cuse's shooters keeping them in this one and potentially grabbing the win.

I agree that getting inside the zone is a better strategy than contested threes, but I don't think driving into the zone is an efficient strategy with 2 guards at the top on defense. As pointed out previously, the key to busting the Cuse zone is an entry pass to the free throw line to someone who can think quickly and, as the zone converges, make the right pass to an open 3 point shooter on the wing, an open big man underneath, or a quick dribble/drive dish or shoot at the rim.

[House P]

Does a wide open two point jumper have a higher expected value than a contested three pointer? I don’t know, you could probably provide the math, but my gut says yes.

These numbers are from the NBA (https://toddwschneider.com/posts/nba-vs-ncaa-basketball-shooting-performance/), but it does appear that, on average, a wide open shot 10-20 feet from the basket at least as good as a closely guarded three pointer. If I read this correctly, players hit closely guarded 24 ft shots about 30% of the time, for an expected value of 0.90 pts. That is about what would be expected from a wide-open 15-20 ft shot (45% FG percentage). From inside 15 feet, the math seems to favor wide open two point shots over contested threes.

I guess the takeaway is "if you are wide open, SHOOT".

Another takeaway is that, for shots 10-20 ft from the hoop, it looks like being wide open improves field goal percentage by about 10% vs being closely guarded. That may not seem like much, but it is about 0.2 points per possession which is the difference between the best offensive team in the NCAA and the 220th best team. Being loosely guarded (nearest defender within 4-6 feet) improves field goal percentage by about 5%.

10169

[Rich]

I am not trying to speak for Sage*

*In my years of reading DBR have taught me anything, it is that Sage has no trouble speaking for himself* :D

Does that include the time before he was SageGrouse and was known as the now extinct (I can't remember the name) Grouse? ;)

[Troublemaker]

With Cuse's lack of athleticism on the perimter, I hope we take advantage of getting inside the zone instead of just chucking up 3's. This seems like something we should be able to take advantage of with a pg like Jones. Drive into the lane, get into the middle of the zone and get them off balance... have Cassius hover around the free throw line ... hopefully draw some fouls.

I'm very concerned about our defense in this one though, especially after the Pitt game which seemed to create a rather ominous tone on where the defense is right now. It seems to have been on a downturn the last 4 games and the Orange currently have a top 20 offense according to kenpom. I can see Cuse's shooters keeping them in this one and potentially grabbing the win.

I'm almost opposite of you. I like our defensive matchup here because the one thing Duke's defense is great at is limiting threes. Also, Cuse has a tendency to play isoball, with Hughes especially being someone who likes to go 1-on-1, and isoball keeps Vernon around the basket. Additionally, Cuse will always have two non-shooting bigs on the floor, so hopefully we won't get spaced out.

If Cuse played a m2m defense instead of zone (and the m2m were exactly as effective as its zone, which is to say not very), then I would love this matchup. I still like the matchup overall and hope we find a way to play effective zone offense against a pretty bad zone defense.

[-jk]

Does that include the time before he was SageGrouse and was known as the now extinct (I can't remember the name) Grouse? ;)

Blue Grouse. Not extinct, just rolled into the Sage Grouse species as I recall.

-jk

[UrinalCake]

These numbers are from the NBA, but it does appear that, on average, a wide open shot 10-20 feet from the basket at least as good as a closely guarded three pointer.

Awesome analysis, thanks for providing that. My guts tells me that at the college level, the drop off from open shots to contested shots is even greater due to the fact that players aren’t as comfortable shooting them and haven’t had the extra years of practice. And the drop off is probably even greater still when you’re talking about an average or good shooter rather than a great shooter. And I don’t think we have any *great* shooters in our team. We do have good ones. So with that said, if I had to choose between any of our players shooting a contested three or the same player shooting a wide open two, I would take the open two, analytics be damned.

[plimnko]

think we'll see Wendell Moore tomorrow?

[CDu]

I'm almost opposite of you. I like our defensive matchup here because the one thing Duke's defense is great at is limiting threes. Also, Cuse has a tendency to play isoball, with Hughes especially being someone who likes to go 1-on-1, and isoball keeps Vernon around the basket. Additionally, Cuse will always have two non-shooting bigs on the floor, so hopefully we won't get spaced out.

If Cuse played a m2m defense instead of zone (and the m2m were exactly as effective as its zone, which is to say not very), then I would love this matchup. I still like the matchup overall and hope we find a way to play effective zone offense against a pretty bad zone defense.

Yeah, I'm in the same boat. The zone is potentially concerning, but only because it is a look we haven't seen a ton of this year. The Orange don't play it very well this year (not awful, but not well). The only concern is that we get tentative and force up too many 3s, and don't hit them. Which is a legitimate concern. The key is just not letting Hughes break down his man, because that brings lobs into play (which is the main way Sidibe adds any offensive value).

Offensively, they take and make a bunch of 3s. But they aren't a dynamic offensive team. Outside of Hughes, they don't have guys who can create their own shots with any regularity. So it is hard to see how they are going to get their 3s off against us, because that is what we defend really well. They don't have a post presence to really threaten Carey, which means he can stay in more.

It's about as good a matchup as we could hope for in a Q1 road game. As you said, with their lack of athleticism, the only thing I'd like more is if they played man defense.

[jv001]

Yeah, I'm in the same boat. The zone is potentially concerning, but only because it is a look we haven't seen a ton of this year. The Orange don't play it very well this year (not awful, but not well). The only concern is that we get tentative and force up too many 3s, and don't hit them. Which is a legitimate concern. The key is just not letting Hughes break down his man, because that brings lobs into play (which is the main way Sidibe adds any offensive value).

Offensively, they take and make a bunch of 3s. But they aren't a dynamic offensive team. Outside of Hughes, they don't have guys who can create their own shots with any regularity. So it is hard to see how they are going to get their 3s off against us, because that is what we defend really well. They don't have a post presence to really threaten Carey, which means he can stay in more.

It's about as good a matchup as we could hope for in a Q1 road game. As you said, with their lack of athleticism, the only thing I'd like more is if they played man defense.

All this ^ and Duke should come away with a lot of offensive rebounds. Zone and the Orange don't play that 2-3 as well as they have in the past.
GoDuke!

[sagegrouse]

Blue Grouse. Not extinct, just rolled into the Sage Grouse species as I recall.

-jk

Nice to be thought of when lolling on the beach in Maui. Truth is, I had some difficulty retaining "BlueGrouse" when we switched from Sagermatha. As I thought about it. I realized that this "yard bird" was no longer a bird species, having been split into Dusky Grouse and Sooty Grouse (Rockies vs. Cascades) -- ugh!! So I picked the local Sage Grouse -- not a yard bird but within my county. Seems to work OK for now

[English]

I suspect we'll remain in the offensive doldrums, and therefore it'll probably be a very tough evening. Can't imagine it being easy.

Duke--remaining in the offensive doldrums of the top-5 nationally in adjOE.

[budwom]

Duke--remaining in the offensive doldrums of the top-5 nationally in adjOE.

but not lately.

[azzefkram]

but not lately.

While Duke's offense hasn't always looked pretty, it has been effective. Check out the adjusted O on the drop down. http://www.barttorvik.com/team.php?team=Duke Duke's D has been more of a concern.

Cuse's zone is a bit worrisome for me since chucking 3s can seem like a good idea and this team seems to play better when they limit their 3s.

[WakeDevil]

Thanks for saying effective, not efficient.

[Pghdukie]

The coaching staff has seen the zone many, many times. If Duke can hit the mid range shots, it will be a good day for the good guys.

[UrinalCake]

think we'll see Wendell Moore tomorrow?

I’m sure we’ll see him. Whether he’ll be playing is still up for debate.

(ducks)

[Kedsy]

but not lately.


While Duke's offense hasn't always looked pretty, it has been effective.


Thanks for saying effective, not efficient.

Duke's offense lately (I am arbitrarily defining "lately" as our last five games) has been effective and efficient. Obviously, our O wasn't great against Clemson and Louisville, but it was great against Wake, Miami, and Pitt. So you can fairly say our offense has been inconsistent, but our overall combined adjusted oRating in our last five games has been 1.194, which if extended to the entire season would rank #3 in the nation.

[Nrrrrvous]

Duke's offense lately (I am arbitrarily defining "lately" as our last five games) has been effective and efficient. Obviously, our O wasn't great against Clemson and Louisville, but it was great against Wake, Miami, and Pitt. So you can fairly say our offense has been inconsistent, but our overall combined adjusted oRating in our last five games has been 1.194, which if extended to the entire season would rank #3 in the nation.

1)Never get in a land war in Asia
2)Never go against a Sicilian when death is on the line
3)Never argue with Kedsy about basketball stats

[budwom]

Duke's offense lately (I am arbitrarily defining "lately" as our last five games) has been effective and efficient. Obviously, our O wasn't great against Clemson and Louisville, but it was great against Wake, Miami, and Pitt. So you can fairly say our offense has been inconsistent, but our overall combined adjusted oRating in our last five games has been 1.194, which if extended to the entire season would rank #3 in the nation.

not sure that being "great" against Wake and Miami amounts to much, but I guess we'll see. Eye test tells me guys like Baker and AOC are out of sync, and with Moore out, that leaves us depleted. Proof is in the pudding as they say.

[Kedsy]

not sure that being "great" against Wake and Miami amounts to much, but I guess we'll see.

That's why I used adjusted (rather than unadjusted numbers). In theory, at least, if you adjust for your opponent's abilities, the number you get is a fair representation of your performance.

For example, on average Wake Forest gives up 1.024 points per possession (pretty bad, 273rd in the country). If you adjust for competition, Wake gives up 1.026 ppp (164th in the country). Duke scored 1.319 points per possession against Wake, which in a 70 possession game would be 20.5 points more than Wake's norm. That sounds pretty great to me. But I guess YMMV.

[PirateDevil119]

Just saw on the Duke Men’s Basketball Instagram account that Wendell Moore will play tonight. Huge news for the good guys. Maybe he can be the zone buster at the FT line, as well as a stopper against Buddy and Elijah.

[brevity]

Duke Men’s Basketball (https://twitter.com/DukeMBB/status/1223659855594082305) @DukeMBB

@thewendellmoore is back in action tonight.

11:30 AM · Feb 1, 2020

[budwom]

That's why I used adjusted (rather than unadjusted numbers). In theory, at least, if you adjust for your opponent's abilities, the number you get is a fair representation of your performance.

For example, on average Wake Forest gives up 1.024 points per possession (pretty bad, 273rd in the country). If you adjust for competition, Wake gives up 1.026 ppp (164th in the country). Duke scored 1.319 points per possession against Wake, which in a 70 possession game would be 20.5 points more than Wake's norm. That sounds pretty great to me. But I guess YMMV.

I'd only quibble as to how accurate the adjustment is...I really don't know, but we don't look like a well oiled machine right now.

Sounds like Wendell is back; would be nice for Joey to reappear (only nine minutes last game)...depth has been such a strength of this team (especially since we have a bunch of potentially good shooters) but with Wendell out, AOC struggling mightily, and Joe in something of a slump, we haven't been as deep of late. Always nice to have depth for an ACC road game (where you can find one of your top guys saddled with two fouls rather quickly).

[jipops]

Duke Men’s Basketball (https://twitter.com/DukeMBB/status/1223659855594082305) @DukeMBB

@thewendellmoore is back in action tonight.

11:30 AM · Feb 1, 2020

Hopefully he can give us some good reps on defense. We may need it.

[DavidBenAkiva]

Hopefully he can give us some good reps on defense. We may need it.

I think he helps on both offense and defense. He can operate out of the high post on offense, using his passing abilities get open looks to Vernon or shooters on the wing. He's big and long enough to play in that spot. On defense, he can guard their three main offense threats, Hughes, Beoheim, or Girard.

[JayZee]

While Duke's offense hasn't always looked pretty, it has been effective. Check out the adjusted O on the drop down. http://www.barttorvik.com/team.php?team=Duke Duke's D has been more of a concern.

Cuse's zone is a bit worrisome for me since chucking 3s can seem like a good idea and this team seems to play better when they limit their 3s.

Yeah, I’d say that those back up the eye test, that our D has slipped. The O would look that much better if we added. A few more run outs after turnovers.

Let’s hope that Moore being back helps us shore up the D.

[JayZee]

not sure that being "great" against Wake and Miami amounts to much, but I guess we'll see. Eye test tells me guys like Baker and AOC are out of sync, and with Moore out, that leaves us depleted. Proof is in the pudding as they say.

The worrisome thing about Joey is that he’s missing his shots to the sides. I remember someone talking about Durant in that he basically is always online with his shot, only really missing long/short. Second your shot starts going offline it gets ugly quickly. Let’s hope that he’s can straighten things out...

[-jk]

DBR Chat (http://forums.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/misc.php?do=cchatbox) is open!

If it gets a bit slow, refresh the page. If you're on a mobile device, you'll need to select "Blue" at the bottom.

If it's running too fast for you, you can always check out the chat archive (https://forums.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/misc.php?do=ccarc) to catch up.

As always - please follow the DBR Posting Guidelines.

Let's Go Duke!

-jk

[Furniture]

https://dukereport.com/duke-basketball/jon-scheyer-and-nolan-smith-to-miss-syracuse-game-tonight-dukeofhoops/?fbclid=IwAR2a1e44HepKVh_wORtZv9FZ8QFDZ3EsXv2RKLPL 6i2b6Ng1sSitWzPDGhc

Duke bench will be two men short tonight but that has nothing to do with players. Nolan Smith is back in Durham due to a family illness. Jon Scheyer had an emergency appendectomy this AM here in Syracuse. He's doing well but not at Carrier Dome.

[uh_no]

https://dukereport.com/duke-basketball/jon-scheyer-and-nolan-smith-to-miss-syracuse-game-tonight-dukeofhoops/?fbclid=IwAR2a1e44HepKVh_wORtZv9FZ8QFDZ3EsXv2RKLPL 6i2b6Ng1sSitWzPDGhc

Duke bench will be two men short tonight but that has nothing to do with players. Nolan Smith is back in Durham due to a family illness. Jon Scheyer had an emergency appendectomy this AM here in Syracuse. He's doing well but not at Carrier Dome.

oof. wish them both the best.

[Acymetric]

6 minutes left in this Auburn - Kentucky game?

[AtlBluRew]

6 minutes left in this Auburn - Kentucky game?

This has happened every #$*## time that ESPN has had our games this season.

[JayZee]

This has happened every #$*## time that ESPN has had our games this season.

On ESPN news to start

[knicknut]

I don't get ESPNNews (not offered in my plan) but even though I'm signed into WatchESPN with my family's Verizon account, which gets ESPN, I get "User Not Authorized" error. Every time.

[devil84]

If you can get into the ESPN app, you can watch it there. (App includes Android, iOS, Roku, FireTv, etc.)

[Bob Green]

I don't get ESPNNews (not offered in my plan) but even though I'm signed into WatchESPN with my family's Verizon account, which gets ESPN, I get "User Not Authorized" error. Every time.

Same for me. Because I don’t get ESPNews on my TV, I can’t stream it when games start over there.

[AtlBluRew]

If you can get into the ESPN app, you can watch it there. (App includes Android, iOS, Roku, FireTv, etc.)

I wish. I don’t have ESPN News in my plan either, but I do have the app and appletv. I can’t get the game. This year it’s too hard to watch Duke.

[devil84]

I wish. I don’t have ESPN News in my plan either, but I do have the app and appletv. I can’t get the game. This year it’s too hard to watch Duke.

I don't have ESPN News in my plan, either. But I'm watching on the ESPN Roku app.

[AtlBluRew]

I don't have ESPN News in my plan, either. But I'm watching on the ESPN Roku app.

I just get the message that I need to upgrade my xfinity package to include ESPN news. This is turning me into a very cranky old man, raging about the complexity and cost of watching tv.

[SavDukeGrad]

Y’all honestly haven’t missed much. Duke not looking sharp against the zone. At all. So far.

[ncexnyc]

Time for one of the zone busters to enter the game.

[devilish]

I don't get ESPNNews (not offered in my plan) but even though I'm signed into WatchESPN with my family's Verizon account, which gets ESPN, I get "User Not Authorized" error. Every time.

Try logging out then back in again. That worked for me on my Roku

[scottdude8]

We’re gonna see a lineup with Jack at the 5 at some point this game with this foul trouble and against this zone.

[SavDukeGrad]

It should be on ESPN after this timeout I think.

[arnie]

Time for one of the zone busters to enter the game.

Well AOC came in and missed a shot and would have had a TO if not for Jordan’s quick hands. All within 10-15 seconds I think. We are fighting on the boards.

[SavDukeGrad]

We’re gonna see a lineup with Jack at the 5 at some point this game with this foul trouble and against this zone.

Surprised to see Vernon and Javin in together. Also, happy that Alex has brought good energy.

[AtlBluRew]

Try logging out then back in again. That worked for me on my Roku

Thanks! I’ll try that next time.

[jipops]

Defense!

Go Duke!

Let’s Go!

Am I doing this right?

[AtlBluRew]

Javin is exceptionally active so far today. Crashing the boards with a vengeance.

[devildeac]

Defense!

Go Duke!

Let’s Go!

Am I doing this right?

As long as there's no:

Bud-dy Boe-heim, sit with me!!

[SavDukeGrad]

I’d say that our front court advantage in this game has been negated, since Vernon, Matt, and Javin each have 2 fouls.

[fuse]

Tre’s getting those mid range shots, just not falling yet.

No one camping at the top of the key(why, I wonder?).

Wendell and Alex making some positive plays.

[arnie]

Tre’s getting those mid range shots, just not falling yet.

No one camping at the top of the key(why, I wonder?).

Wendell and Alex making some positive plays.

Yes Wendell has made some great plays. Guess I went to the fridge and missed Alex’s positives.

[devildeac]

Yes Wendell has made some great plays. Guess I went to the fridge and missed Alex’s positives.

AOC has 2 A and a steal and an 0/3 FG line:eek:

[loran16]

Somebody explain to me why Baker has yet to get in the game, while Alex "under 25% from 3" O'Connell is getting minutes?

[scottdude8]

Thaaaaat should’ve been Carey’s third foul. Phew

[scottdude8]

Somebody explain to me why Baker has yet to get in the game, while Alex "under 25% from 3" O'Connell is getting minutes?

Because K saw half this board saying AOC had fallen out of the rotation and wanted to troll?

[arnie]

AOC has 2 A and a steal and an 0/3 FG line:eek:

Yep he’s picked it up in last few minutes. More active and not messing up.

[Devilwin]

AOC!
Duke has shown up..

[ratamero]

It's a small miracle this game is this close. We've not been good in this first half, offensively and defensively.

[arnie]

Yep he’s picked it up in last few minutes. More active and not messing up.

And a spurt with Javin finishing underneath😀

[SavDukeGrad]

And a spurt with Javin finishing underneath😀

Amazing too, since he’s had to do it with 3 fouls!

[fuse]

Feels like we are lucky to be where we are at half.

Wendell, Alex, Javin with large roles.

Let’s Go Duke!

[gep]

Even with 3 fouls, Javin is doing real good. 4-4 shooting so far. And catching good passes

[scottdude8]

Ummm... I’m not sure who King McClure is but his halftime analysis is that we’re “getting it done?” Weird that there’s like the C squad hosting prime time halftime.

[scottdude8]

Even with 3 fouls, Javin is doing real good. 4-4 shooting so far. And catching dog passes

He always seems to love playing against the zone. He doesn’t have to create, just finish at the rim, which he can do.

[dukelifer]

Defense!

Go Duke!

Let’s Go!

Am I doing this right?

Seems sarcastic- that could lead to a talking to

[devildeac]

Yep he’s picked it up in last few minutes. More active and not messing up.

Agreed.

[gep]

He always seems to love playing against the zone. He doesn’t have to create, just finish at the rim, which he can do.

I edited my post... meant to say catching “good” passes:cool:

[arnie]

Ummm... I’m not sure who King McClure is but his halftime analysis is that we’re “getting it done?” Weird that there’s like the C squad hosting prime time halftime.

At least they’ve spent the halftime talking about our game and others. IMHO, the in-game Kobe discussions are a bit much: and I’m a big Kobe fan.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Worried about second half fouls. We could see K's grandson if things go the wrong way.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Thaaaaat should’ve been Carey’s third foul. Phew

That would have been unfortunate. And fair. Yikes. You can't take a dude's face.

[scottdude8]

That would have been unfortunate. And fair. Yikes. You can't take a dude's face.

Can you imagine the diatribe from Bilas if he was doing the game? And it didn’t even get a mention. Sort of weird that this game has the fourth string announcing crew

[MChambers]

Somebody explain to me why Baker has yet to get in the game, while Alex "under 25% from 3" O'Connell is getting minutes?

No, because we haven't seen practice this week.

[devildeac]

Can you imagine the diatribe from Bilas if he was doing the game? And it didn’t even get a mention. Sort of weird that this game has the fourth string announcing crew

Duke-hating goes deep. :mad:

[jv001]

What MountainDevil said, need to be concerned about foul trouble. Duke with 10 fouls and Cuse with 7. Duke losing the offensive rebounding 6-9. Javin having a Michigan State game. Good to see him playing so well. It looked like Duke caught fire when Coach K went big with Vernon and Javin playing together. I hope Javin can keep from getting that 4th foul. That will be critical.

GoDuke!

[OZZIE4DUKE]

That's the best Javin has played in weeks, maybe since last year/decade. Hope he keeps it up. But he needs to stop picking up stupid fouls. Same for Carey and Hurt.

AOC played well the last couple of minutes, hitting a mid-range jumper and the two foul shots, and looked to be playing some pesky defense, too!

At least Tre hit a tre, so that pressure is off! :cool:

Let's win this friggin' game! http://www.crazietalk.net/ourhouse/images/smilies/devil9f.gif LGD GTHc! 9F!http://www.crazietalk.net/ourhouse/images/smilies/devil9f.gifhttp://www.crazietalk.net/ourhouse/images/smilies/devil9f.gif

[SavDukeGrad]

Feels like we are lucky to be where we are at half.

Wendell, Alex, Javin with large roles.

Let’s Go Duke!

Agree. Wendell, Alex, and Javin providing a big lift from the bench. Vernon looks really good too, when we finally figured out how to get him the ball. Goldwire with a really rough start, and I don’t think he’s been back in since. Coach K going big, with Vernon and Javin in together some, before they both got in foul trouble.

We have done a good job running them off the 3 point line for the most part. But they have been pretty successful pounding it inside and getting our bigs in foul trouble.

Really good finish to the half, after looking lost for most of it. Hope we have figured out the zone and can keep it going in the 2nd half. I’m concerned about our foul trouble though.

[bluedev_92]

Can you imagine the diatribe from Bilas if he was doing the game? And it didn’t even get a mention. Sort of weird that this game has the fourth string announcing crew

Definitely happy we don’t have to listen to that!

[jv001]

Definitely happy we don’t have to listen to that!

Shoot I hit the mute button on Corey Alexander about 2 minutes in the game. We ended up with the 3rd or 4th string of announcers. But it could have been worse with Bilas, Dickie V and Walton. GoDuke!

[scottdude8]

That’s not how you want to get your third personal. Wow.

[CrazyNotCrazie]

Are you kidding me? Women’s tennis players yell more than that!

[scottdude8]

Ok that may have been one of the most impressive displays of athleticism I’ve seen on a basketball court that wasn’t a dunk. WOW Cassius!

[SavDukeGrad]

Worst call ever on Carey! Every player does that!

Dolejaz sp? woofed after every call in the first half.

[Bluedog]

The thing that's bizarre is Carey is one of the least emotional/reactive guys I've ever seen on the court. He typically displays no emotion and when he finally does he gets T'ed up. I thought it was a bogus call. Players do way worse...

[ncexnyc]

Carey was fouled on his allyoop and Stanley took a ton of contact on his long reception.

[downeastdad]

When did "fow-ell" become a two syllable word?

[devildeac]

And air guitar playing is OK?

I totally despise acc refs.

[arnie]

The thing that's bizarre is Carey is one of the least emotional/reactive guys I've ever seen on the court. He typically displays no emotion and when he finally does he gets T'ed up. I thought it was a bogus call. Players do way worse...

If I were K, I’d tell the fraud ref he’d better call 5 of those every game from here on out. See that reaction in every game, bet Zion did it 20 times last year

[duketaylor]

haven't seen before. Did we wear these earlier this year? Thoughts on them? If there's a uni thread for these plz redirect me. THX.

[Bluedog]

haven't seen before. Did we wear these earlier this year? Thoughts on them? If there's a uni thread for these plz redirect me. THX.

We unveiled them for a home game (wore blue at home). General consensus was they're awesome. Yeah there was a thread.

[CrazyNotCrazie]

Who is the guy in a suit on the bench with K, Cwell and Nate?

[downeastdad]

These announcers really make me miss Bilas and Vitale.

[ChrisP]

These refs are allowing 'Cuse players to beat the crap out of our guys in the post! How was that last play not over Javin's back???

[devildeac]

These refs are allowing 'Cuse players to beat the crap out of our guys in the post! How was that last play not over Javin's back???

Directive from acc office :mad:.

[duke2x]

And air guitar playing is OK?

I totally despise acc refs.

He was playing air guitar away from the player. :rolleyes:

Which official - Stephens, DeSai, or Cassell - called the T?

[devildeac]

He was playing air guitar away from the player. :rolleyes:

Which official - Stephens, DeSai, or Cassell - called the T?

Not sure. They all suck.

[scottdude8]

AOC earning his minutes tonight! I wonder how quickly the board will forget this performance ;p

[ratamero]

AOC is our designated Syracuse killer. He shows up to play against the Orange every single time.

[ChrisP]

Who is the guy in a suit on the bench with K, Cwell and Nate?

Will Avery

[downeastdad]

AOC earning his minutes tonight! I wonder how quickly the board will forget this performance ;p

Second leading scorer tonight, but he really needs to do it more than once a year.

[ChrisP]

AOC earning his minutes tonight! I wonder how quickly the board will forget this performance ;p

I won't forget it - just wish he would/could consistently bring it like tonight

[Bluedog]

Jack has played very well this game too. Not a ton of stats, but just solid D, nice passing, blocks and general toughness and leadership.

[CrazyNotCrazie]

Will Avery

No. The white guy who is first on the bench.

[wavedukefan70s]

At work just tuned in.is it just me or are the orange having free reign on defense while our guys are having to pull up and be careful?

[Devilwin]

Wendell turning it over too much on the drive.

[fuse]

Time to value the ball more.

[arnie]

Time to value the ball more.

Making our throws tonight!

[ChrisP]

Making our throws tonight!

Yes, even when we get FOWELED

[TKG]

Making our throws tonight!

Funny how that helps....

[Steven43]

Is Joey Baker hurt? My cable and internet are knocked out so I can’t watch or record the game. I’m just able to check ESPN on my phone and the boxscore shows zero minutes for Joey. Maybe Wendell took his minutes?

[dukelifer]

Two very dumb plays in a row

[ChrisP]

Ugh...boneheaded play after boneheaded play :(

[SavDukeGrad]

Is it just me, or do they have a lot of moving screens when they try to free up their 3 point shooters? Then when we try to fight around those screens, we’re called for the foul. :mad:

[Devilwin]

Don't like this late game melt down..

[rocketeli]

the refs are especially bad tonight--just very inconsistent from play to play on what they call. Also a few real head scratchers. At least, when I take off my Duke googles they seem to be hosing over both teams about equally.

[-jk]

Is it just me, or do they have a lot of moving screens when they try to free up their 3 point shooters? Then when we try to fight around those screens, we’re called for the foul. :mad:

Doesn’t mean anything unless it causes undue contact. We’re not trying to go through them.

-jk

[ChrisP]

Is Joey Baker hurt? My cable and internet are knocked out so I can’t watch or record the game. I’m just able to check ESPN on my phone and the boxscore shows zero minutes for Joey. Maybe Wendell took his minutes?

I have seen him up cheering from the bench. Dressed out and seems fine. I guess Wendell took his minutes

[Scorp4me]

Disappointed in K's handing of Baker, going back to burning/letting him burn his red shirt last year.

[ChrisP]

Omg! Come on guys!!!

[ratamero]

urgh. Ugly end to this one.

[CrazyNotCrazie]

Garbage foul. Have we ever practiced vs a press?

[Steven43]

Disappointed in K's handing of Baker, going back to burning/letting him burn his red shirt last year.

I really get a kick out of watching Baker play. He’s like a giant puppy. I love his enthusiasm and energy. I would like to see him get 15-20 minutes every game.

[ChrisP]

Disappointed in K's handing of Baker, going back to burning/letting him burn his red shirt last year.

Yeah, and it was here, in the Dome, too

[Devilwin]

Dumb after dumb..Moore out of sync..

[ratamero]

Thank god for Cassius Stanley.

[dukelifer]

Thank god for Cassius Stanley.

Again makes a huge play in crunch time

[ChrisP]

Thank god for Cassius Stanley.

And AOC and good FT shooting!

[Devilwin]

Just score this time guys..

[dukelifer]

Syracuse can shoot and that is an issue

[dukelifer]

Wow!

[dukelifer]

Girard is going to be a 4 year pain

[arnie]

Wow!

Will this game ever end. Our D at the end has been awful, but our throws are incredible.

[SouthernDukie]

How many points has Cuse scored in the last 4 minutes? Seems like about 25 to 30.

[dukelifer]

Will this game ever end. Our D at the end has been awful, but our throws are incredible.

Longest 2 minutes ever

[ChrisP]

The end of this is taking FOREVER! Almost 10:30!

[ratamero]

This absolutely incredible free throw shooting percentage probably saved us today.

[SouthernDukie]

This absolutely incredible free throw shooting percentage probably saved us today.

For sure has saved us!

[dukelifer]

This absolutely incredible free throw shooting percentage probably saved us today.

Getting a lot of practice

[ratamero]

How many points has Cuse scored in the last 4 minutes? Seems like about 25 to 30.

You're not far off - 20.

[devildeac]

How many points has Cuse scored in the last 4 minutes? Seems like about 25 to 30.

Refs keep giving them FT:mad:

[TKG]

This game is lasting as long as Big East games in the 80s and early 90s.

[devildeac]

Finally!!

[ChrisP]

Wait...is that a rooster crowing?

GET THIS GAME OVER!!!!

[ratamero]

70 FTs attempted. Well done, everyone.

[RaiderDevil]

Blew the whistle on that last foul before anything even happened.