MBB: Duke 89, Miami 59 Post-Game Thread

[brevity]

Ten minutes later. Is this thing on?

Share your post-game thoughts here. Please respect the DBR guidelines and do not vent or throw a stool.

[UrinalCake]

Great confidence boost leading into the open spot in the schedule. Miami was really depleted after that tough FSU game, then having to go on the road and with Lykes banged up. They didn’t have much fight. Still an impressive performance by our guys, nice to see Hurt knocking down shots and everybody playing their roles really well. Also glad Alex was able to get some garbage buckets, I’ve been worried about him completely falling out of the rotation.

Carey and Stanley have a tendency to spin right into double teams. That’s about the only negative I can think of. Great performance to build off of.

[Native]

Good game to get rid of the bad taste in our mouths after Clemson and Louisville. Nice to have a week until our next game to catch our breath a bit.

[Mrezt]

Easy win from the beginning, that was a nice game to sit back and watch on mute. Loved watching Hurt play tonight as well as Stanley and Baker. I love when Baker is hitting his shots

[CameronDuke]

Hurt’s shot is coming around. Tre with an impressive stat line: 16 points, 6 rebounds, 6 assists. Cassius with another phenomenal alley oop dunk on a baseline out of bounds play. Was his head above the rim?

Great 3 point shooting as a team: 11-25 (44.0%). 7 blocks as a team. 18 assists on 34 made field goals. Miami was banged up, but Duke defended well and limited turnovers to 10.

10-13 (76.9%) from the free throw line was excellent to see, too.

16-3, 6-2 with a week off before hosting Pitt in another late tip-off at Cameron.

[Saratoga2]

Miami came out and tried to zone us and our 3 point shooting made them pay. Eleven for twenty-five was good shooting. Lot of good performances. Hurt and Tre in particular were very good tonight and Joey was active. Javin got a few points and may have led the team in rebounding, but he shouldn't try to distribute.

I was surprised that Vernon was not finishing strongly tonight. He got fouled on every play but didn't make the inclose baskets and had to make his points mainly from the linne.

The team seemed to get sloppy in the second half as we went to different combinations and they switched to more mtm defense at times. I guess it is difficult to concentrate with a big lead.

Interesting to see AOC run up 8 points in 6 minutes in garbage time. Would love to see him play with energy and help the team.

Week off coming up. Good win to set up the next games.

[weezie]

...Share your post-game thoughts here. Please respect the DBR guidelines and do not vent or throw a stool.

Hey where is everybody? I'm hoping Cassius gets a top ten play for that one handed slam or maybe for the one handed soft little hover scoop. But likely not. Stool swinging is rocking the interwebs tonight

[weezie]

...Share your post-game thoughts here. Please respect the DBR guidelines and do not vent or throw a stool.

Hey where is everybody? I'm hoping Cassius gets a top ten play for that one hander slam or maybe for the one handed soft little hover scoop. But likely not. Stool brandishing is rocking the interwebs tonight.
Oh haaayyy, #2 of top ten!

[CameronDuke]

Hey where is everybody? I'm hoping Cassius gets a top ten play for that one hander slam or maybe for the one handed soft little hover scoop. But likely not. Stool brandishing is rocking the interwebs tonight

The one handed slam by Cassius was #2 on the Sportscenter Top 10.

[ncexnyc]

Alex, Alex, Alex.

I'm watching the game in the first half and I'm saying to myself, "Why hasn't Coach K. put Alex into the game?" Alex promptly gets inserted into the line-up and then has his pocket picked for a really bad turnover.

Fast forward to the end of the game and Alex goes off for 8 quick points, reminding us all that he's actually got talent.

It would appear the only person who can stop Alex, is Alex himself.

Nice to get back to our winning ways. Hurt had a really nice game, but I want to see it against a team with a solid frontcourt. I guess that's where the absence of Moore shows up the most. Having those two available lets Coach K. mix and match depending on what that opposition has.

It was nice to see Baker bounce back from his last outing. The kid is a lot tougher than you think by just looking at him.

[uh_no]

Ten minutes later. Is this thing on?

Share your post-game thoughts here. Please respect the DBR guidelines and do not vent or throw a stool.

is anyone left awake after that second half? that could explain it.

[Kedsy]

Our 4th 30+ point ACC win in eight ACC games. For an entire season, only one Duke team under Coach K has had more 30+ point ACC wins than this year's model (that would be the 1999 team).

OFFENSE

Possessions: 71.3 (acceptable speed)
oRtg: 1.25 (1.23 adjusted; strong)
eFG%: 61.7% (very good; 6th 60+ eFG% in our last 11 games)
3pt%: 44.0% (great)
2pt%: 59.0% (very good)
%threes: 39.1% (4th straight game we've taken 37%+ of our shots from three (and in three of those games we've hit 40+% of them); this is different from most of the season -- could we be seeing a change in our offensive strategy?)
FT rate: 20.3% (not so good)
OR%: 28.1% (poor; third straight OR clunker)
TO%: 14.0% (good, after two straight not-so-good)
a/to: 1.8:1 (also good)
%assisted: 52.9%
fast break pts: 20 (very good; 22.5% of points; 5th 20+ fast break points in last six games)

DEFENSE

dRtg: 0.83 (adjusted dRtg of 0.74 is excellent)
eFG%: 33.3% (very strong)
3pt%: 22.2% (ditto)
2pt%: 33.3% (decent)
%threes: 30.0% (good; another game (13th time) that an opponent has taken 30% or fewer of their shots from three)
FT rate: 36.7% (not good)
DR%: 71.4% (acceptable)
TO%: 18.2% (a little low after seven straight defensive TO% of 20+% (and eight in nine games))
a/to: 0.46:1
%assisted: 33.3%
stl%: 7.0% (not so good)
blk%: 11.7% (16.7% of 2pt shots) (strong)
fast break pts: 11 (18.6% of points; so-so, I'd hoped for better - last time we held them to 4)


Pretty close to the same adjusted ratings as the last time we played Miami (1.27 and 0.76). It was nice to see after last week's performances. It'll be interesting whether or not the recent trend taking so many threes becomes a permanent feature in our offense. Also the fast break points -- we've had 18 or more fb points in five of our last six games, after only doing that twice in the 13 games before that.

[Billy Dat]

%threes: 39.1% (4th straight game we've taken 37%+ of our shots from three (and in three of those games we've hit 40+% of them); this is different from most of the season -- could we be seeing a change in our offensive strategy?

I wonder if it has anything to do with trying to free up Vernon, per K’s quote (below) from the post-game presser?

On Vernon Carey:
“He has counter moves - counter moves are great if you’re doing them against one guy. I don’t think anyone has come up with a counter for double and triple teams. That’s what’s happening to him. If the three-point shooting keeps going well then, he’ll have more room. Part of the reason we have more open threes is because of Vernon. When he runs the court, people are going to go to him. That gives a window of opportunity. In Matt’s case, he was a little slower with that window earlier, so they could recover to him. His prep is quicker and if he keeps going like that – then that’s a great counter with Vern. Vern has – it’s tough to move down there. As long as he’s running – he just has to stay patient. He did a great job tonight with just running and making sure the defense has a plan.”

[HereBeforeCoachK]

Pretty close to the same adjusted ratings as the last time we played Miami (1.27 and 0.76). It was nice to see after last week's performances. It'll be interesting whether or not the recent trend taking so many threes becomes a permanent feature in our offense. Also the fast break points -- we've had 18 or more fb points in five of our last six games, after only doing that twice in the 13 games before that.

I saw an analytic breakdown on Duke several days ago - from something at ESPN.com - that said the analytics scream that Duke should shoot more threes. I'm not sure where K is with analytics, but it might indeed be a new tactic, or an adjusted one, compared to earlier in the season.

[53n206]

Good game to get rid of the bad taste in our mouths after Clemson and Louisville.
Not exactly.

[Devilwin]

Hurt MOTM. Great game from him..Team looked good last night. Three point shooting was off the hook. Only concern I have is Vernon being a better finisher. With his size he should be a bit better than he's been lately, double teams aside. He is missing shots now he should make easily around the rim..Stanley's dunk was just awesome..

[TKG]

I was not able to watch the game but given the score and the fact that Lykes was banged up, surprised to read in the box score that JGold played 34 minutes and Tre played 35. Would someone mind providing some context?

[fuse]

I was not able to watch the game but given the score and the fact that Lykes was banged up, surprised to read in the box score that JGold played 34 minutes and Tre played 35. Would someone mind providing some context?

Doubt it’s what you are looking for, K didn’t have a lineup he trusted to sub them out with a lot of time to go.

I’d guess the long break between games was a factor in playing them longer than needed.

Scorewise, they might have been able to come out at the 8 minute mark as a guess, which would have left Stanley, O’Connell, or Baker as primary ball handlers.

The reason the game was such a thorough dismantling was due to Jones and Goldwire’s defense. Turn that off and even playing a slow tempo, I would expect the score would have gotten a lot closer.

[rocketeli]

Hey where is everybody? I'm hoping Cassius gets a top ten play for that one handed slam or maybe for the one handed soft little hover scoop. But likely not. Stool swinging is rocking the interwebs tonight

Always more comments after a disappointing loss or a rivalry game than a blowout of a team most Duke fans don't have a lot of intense feelings about. Miami clearly decided to start the game concentrating on interior defense and daring Duke to beat them with threes. Perhaps a reasonable strategy given this Duke team's shooting earlier this season, but a question I'd be asking if I were a Miami fan is why they stuck with it until they were down 25 points or so. They did better when they abandoned that plan in the second half (and Duke was a little sloppy) but too little too late.
So far this season Hurt's been like a six foot tall guy who can't swim trying to ford a river. So long as the water is less than six feet he's fine, but once it gets deeper than that he struggles. In plain terms, his performance on the court is often dictated by the quality of his opposition. It would be nice if he could grow figuratively "taller" and be able to hit threes and be less of a liability on defense against stronger teams, and as he is young and a freshman I think this could happen.
Duke is now 5-0 against the bottom 7 teams in the conference. (and 1-2 against the top 7 (minus Duke here of course.) That's important--winning the games you are supposed to win. Not everybody has this year--look at Kerolina.

[tbyers11]

I was not able to watch the game but given the score and the fact that Lykes was banged up, surprised to read in the box score that JGold played 34 minutes and Tre played 35. Would someone mind providing some context?

Duke has 3 people capable of the being the primary ball handler (Tre, JGold and Wendell) and one of them is hurt. When K doesn't trust AOC to play real minutes there are lots of minutes up for grabs at the PG/SG slot.

Lykes was banged up and didn't play his normal 35+ minutes but he didn't come out of the game for good until about 5 minutes were left. Tre played his normal amount of minutes and came out for good at the under 4 TO. He probably could have left for good 1-2 minutes earlier but meh. Until Wendell comes back or AOC starts playing better Goldwire will probably be around 30 mins/gm and Tre 35 min/gm unless we want to play Mike Buckmire.

[Saratoga2]

Our 4th 30+ point ACC win in eight ACC games. For an entire season, only one Duke team under Coach K has had more 30+ point ACC wins than this year's model (that would be the 1999 team).

OFFENSE

Possessions: 71.3 (acceptable speed)
oRtg: 1.25 (1.23 adjusted; strong)
eFG%: 61.7% (very good; 6th 60+ eFG% in our last 11 games)
3pt%: 44.0% (great)
2pt%: 59.0% (very good)
%threes: 39.1% (4th straight game we've taken 37%+ of our shots from three (and in three of those games we've hit 40+% of them); this is different from most of the season -- could we be seeing a change in our offensive strategy?)
FT rate: 20.3% (not so good)
OR%: 28.1% (poor; third straight OR clunker)
TO%: 14.0% (good, after two straight not-so-good)
a/to: 1.8:1 (also good)
%assisted: 52.9%
fast break pts: 20 (very good; 22.5% of points; 5th 20+ fast break points in last six games)

DEFENSE

dRtg: 0.83 (adjusted dRtg of 0.74 is excellent)
eFG%: 33.3% (very strong)
3pt%: 22.2% (ditto)
2pt%: 33.3% (decent)
%threes: 30.0% (good; another game (13th time) that an opponent has taken 30% or fewer of their shots from three)
FT rate: 36.7% (not good)
DR%: 71.4% (acceptable)
TO%: 18.2% (a little low after seven straight defensive TO% of 20+% (and eight in nine games))
a/to: 0.46:1
%assisted: 33.3%
stl%: 7.0% (not so good)
blk%: 11.7% (16.7% of 2pt shots) (strong)
fast break pts: 11 (18.6% of points; so-so, I'd hoped for better - last time we held them to 4)


Pretty close to the same adjusted ratings as the last time we played Miami (1.27 and 0.76). It was nice to see after last week's performances. It'll be interesting whether or not the recent trend taking so many threes becomes a permanent feature in our offense. Also the fast break points -- we've had 18 or more fb points in five of our last six games, after only doing that twice in the 13 games before that.

I would think playing against a zone defense would raise the % threes, so no surprise there in the first half especially. Fast break points are also more likely against an undermanned team.

[Spanarkel]

Hey where is everybody? I'm hoping Cassius gets a top ten play for that one hander slam or maybe for the one handed soft little hover scoop. But likely not. Stool brandishing is rocking the interwebs tonight.
Oh haaayyy, #2 of top ten!


This activity should be limited to fully gowned and gloved gastroenterologists in the endoscopy suite.

[DevilHorse]

Hey where is everybody? I'm hoping Cassius gets a top ten play for that one hander slam or maybe for the one handed soft little hover scoop. But likely not. Stool brandishing is rocking the interwebs tonight.
Oh haaayyy, #2 of top ten!

#2 on SportCenter Top 10!!

Larry
DevilHorse

[devildeac]

This activity should be limited to fully gowned and gloved gastroenterologists in the endoscopy suite.

Or this:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O4dClSLFukQ

[rsvman]

I was happy to see the team dismantle Miami the same way we did at their house, even without Wendell Moore. I know that Miami wasn't at full strength, but it was still a pretty convincing beat-down.

That zone might've worked pretty well against last year's team, but not so much against this one. The improvement in 3-point shooting this year is a very nice thing. We have Stanley, Hurt, and Baker who are reliable. We have White and Jones, who are both much better than they were last year, and are fairly reliable. Then there is AOC and Goldwire; Goldwire much better than last year, AOC worse. Now they are about equally reliable, which is to say, not very reliable. AOC can do better, and I am encouraged by Goldwire's improvement. I no longer cringe or await the inevitable brick when he fires one up, so that's good.

I'm glad we have a week before the next game; more time for Moore to heal.

[jv001]

More pages on the KU vs. KSU fight than our own game, huh. A few things about our game last night. Jordan Goldwire still doesn't get much praise for the work he does. Here are some of his stats last night: 34 minutes, 4 points(2-3), 5 rebounds, led the team with 3 offensive boards, 5 assists, 0 turnovers, and 2 steals. On things that don't show up on the stat line, he played hard defense the entire 34 minutes and more than held his own. He has become a valuable player this season. Javin lead the team with 9 rebounds(2 offensive) and had 2 blocks. On the negative side, he had 4 turnovers. Over all a good game. I think the two stars of the game were Matt and Tre. Matt came out smoking from 3 and had one of his best games. He had 22 points which led the team on 8-11, 4-7 on 3s, 6 rebounds, 1 assist and zero turnovers(great), had 3 blocks and played 24 minutes. Tre had another stat stuffing night with: In 35 minutes, 16 points(6-13) 2-4 on threes, 6 assists, 1 turnover, 6 rebounds, 1 steal and made both of his FTs. Others who played well were; Joey, 3-5 on his threes in 12 minutes, Cassius had a quiet night with 9 points and 1 rebound in 31 minutes, Jack had 5 points and one rebound, 1-2 on threes, in 18 minutes, Alex came in early, had an ugly turnover and went to the bench to return in garbage time. He then scored 8 points in the twinkling of an eye. Well not really, in about 3 minutes. 38 seconds. That's the Alex we need to step up. I hope he came away with confidence after that display. I know his teammates were happy for him. As they quickly congratulated him after he scored. Now for big Vern. It was evident Miami was going to double team him and it showed in his stats. He had 11 points on 3-9 shooting, made 5-7 FTs, 6 rebounds, 3 assists and only 1 turnover in 24 minutes. The Miami coach said in his postgame that was the plan. But his plan failed because Duke lit the Hurricanes up from three. I do feel Vernon needs to get stronger taking the ball to the basket. I think we'll see more teams try the same plan against Duke this season. The team now has 10 days to work on some of these things and get prepared. There's lots of basketball left to play and I don't think we've seen the best of this team yet and I don't think we'll see it until Wendell returns.

GoDuke!

[CDu]

Nice win against an overmatched opponent. With Lykes not at full strength and going against Tre Jones, Miami just doesn't have enough to compete with us. Especially when we are hitting 3s like we were. Fun win.

My thoughts:
- Jordan Goldwire has REALLY improved as a player. He's still not a great shooter, but he's improved his scoring ability enough to be respectable on that end. But he has also gotten much better DEFensively. Last year, Goldwire was a gimmick player who was good at pressing and overplaying in full-court defense. But he was a liability in the half court on both ends of the floor, and as such played sparingly. But this year he has just been so solid. His steal rate is up, his shooting percentages are up, while his turnover rate and foul rate are both down. He deserves a ton of credit for establishing himself as a legitimate ACC player.
- Similarly, Tre Jones has managed to improve his offense and increase his offensive responsibility from last year. That's a hard combo to achieve. But not only that, he has done so without it hurting his defense. He and Goldwire are such pests all over the court. I was skeptical that the duo could work as a regular pairing because of the shooting limitations, but both have made major strides on that end to be respectable from distance.
- Matthew Hurt can shoot. This was a great matchup for him (opponent weak defensively and playing some zone, and lacking a healthy and explosive playmaker to punish him on the other end). That's back-to-back good offensive games from Hurt. Hopefully it continues.
- Baker is a nice weapon to have on the bench whenever teams go zone. He doesn't do much else, but if left open he can sure make a three.
- Quiet game from Stanley other than the dunk. I'll let it slide given the blowout and his performances recently. :)
- Also a quiet game from Carey, somewhat surprisingly given the opponent. The Canes decided (after Carey torched them last time) to not let him be the guy to beat them last night. They really crowded him out, which left us a bunch of open shots. And boy did we hit them. Prior to last night, he had been really efficient the prior two games, so hopefully he'll bounce back next week.

Nice, fun win. Never in doubt after the opening minutes. Those are nice to have from time to time, especially after a couple of tough losses. Hopefully we can get healthy and take it to the back portion of our schedule!

[Music man55]

Great bounce back game, nice to see the threes falling and the great defense. Really liked the way we got out of the gate with Hurt and the rest shooting so well.I also was so glad to see Alex score 8 quick points, even if it was the last few minutes. I hope that can get him going again. I think he has been being his own worst enemy has a poster up-thread said. Nice game all around.

[FerryFor50]

Alex, Alex, Alex.

I'm watching the game in the first half and I'm saying to myself, "Why hasn't Coach K. put Alex into the game?" Alex promptly gets inserted into the line-up and then has his pocket picked for a really bad turnover.

Fast forward to the end of the game and Alex goes off for 8 quick points, reminding us all that he's actually got talent.

It would appear the only person who can stop Alex, is Alex himself.

Nice to get back to our winning ways. Hurt had a really nice game, but I want to see it against a team with a solid frontcourt. I guess that's where the absence of Moore shows up the most. Having those two available lets Coach K. mix and match depending on what that opposition has.

It was nice to see Baker bounce back from his last outing. The kid is a lot tougher than you think by just looking at him.

Agreed, but I don't understand K's mentality there.

Sure, AOC wasn't strong with the ball when he got in - it really looked like he was finding his legs and hadn't gotten into game flow yet. But one turnover and he sits for a majority of an easy blowout win? Why not let him play through it a bit? I saw plenty of other bad turnovers from Duke where K kept the offending player in the game. Why does AOC have such a short leash?

He's shown he can produce in games, but when you get such a quick hook, you tend to overthink things even more. And overthinking rather than simply reacting has been AOC's issue since he's been there. When he just plays, he can put up points and get steals. But I'd be overly cautious, too, if I knew one mistake was going to get me yanked.

[Billy Dat]

More pages on the KU vs. KSU fight than our own game, huh.

I think many are probably thinking the same thing that I am which is that expected us to destroy a weakened Miami team who already seems to be an extremely favorable match-up for us. The losses to Clemson and Louisville leave me wanting to see us prove it against some new blood.


Agreed, but I don't understand K's mentality there. Sure, AOC wasn't strong with the ball when he got in - it really looked like he was finding his legs and hadn't gotten into game flow yet. But one turnover and he sits for a majority of an easy blowout win? Why not let him play through it a bit? I saw plenty of other bad turnovers from Duke where K kept the offending player in the game. Why does AOC have such a short leash? He's shown he can produce in games, but when you get such a quick hook, you tend to overthink things even more. And overthinking rather than simply reacting has been AOC's issue since he's been there. When he just plays, he can put up points and get steals. But I'd be overly cautious, too, if I knew one mistake was going to get me yanked.

I have felt this way, too, but, as a junior, the kid must be consistently not doing what K wants. I can only imagine that they talk about focus and whatever else and then he goes in and immediately does something wrong. His comments about him over the years have always seemed colored by "needs to have a more serious demeanor" type of language and I can only imagine that whatever mistakes he is making, they are things that have been discussed with him ad nauseum and he's not good enough to warrant a longer leash.

[Steven43]

More pages on the KU vs. KSU fight than our own game, huh. A few things about our game last night. Jordan Goldwire still doesn't get much praise for the work he does. Here are some of his stats last night: 34 minutes, 4 points(2-3), 5 rebounds, led the team with 3 offensive boards, 5 assists, 0 turnovers, and 2 steals. On things that don't show up on the stat line, he played hard defense the entire 34 minutes and more than held his own. He has become a valuable player this season. Javin lead the team with 9 rebounds(2 offensive) and had 2 blocks. On the negative side, he had 4 turnovers. Over all a good game. I think the two stars of the game were Matt and Tre. Matt came out smoking from 3 and had one of his best games. He had 22 points which led the team on 8-11, 4-7 on 3s, 6 rebounds, 1 assist and zero turnovers(great), had 3 blocks and played 24 minutes. Tre had another stat stuffing night with: In 35 minutes, 16 points(6-13) 2-4 on threes, 6 assists, 1 turnover, 6 rebounds, 1 steal and made both of his FTs. Others who played well were; Joey, 3-5 on his threes in 12 minutes, Cassius had a quiet night with 9 points and 1 rebound in 31 minutes, Jack had 5 points and one rebound, 1-2 on threes, in 18 minutes, Alex came in early, had an ugly turnover and went to the bench to return in garbage time. He then scored 8 points in the twinkling of an eye. Well not really, in about 3 minutes. 38 seconds. That's the Alex we need to step up. I hope he came away with confidence after that display. I know his teammates were happy for him. As they quickly congratulated him after he scored. Now for big Vern. It was evident Miami was going to double team him and it showed in his stats. He had 11 points on 3-9 shooting, made 5-7 FTs, 6 rebounds, 3 assists and only 1 turnover in 24 minutes. The Miami coach said in his postgame that was the plan. But his plan failed because Duke lit the Hurricanes up from three. I do feel Vernon needs to get stronger taking the ball to the basket. I think we'll see more teams try the same plan against Duke this season. The team now has 10 days to work on some of these things and get prepared. There's lots of basketball left to play and I don't think we've seen the best of this team yet and I don't think we'll see it until Wendell returns.

GoDuke!

Great synopsis, other than a minor quibble with your comment of “Cassius had a quiet night”. He made some sensational plays that reminded me of a young Michael Jordan. I think this kid could be the “X” factor that pushes this team over the top....if he is fully unleashed.

[uh_no]

I think many are probably thinking the same thing that I am which is that expected us to destroy a weakened Miami team who already seems to be an extremely favorable match-up for us. The losses to Clemson and Louisville leave me wanting to see us prove it against some new blood.



Makes sense to me too. I was at the game standing and having trouble staying awake. We were up by almost 30 in the first half, and sleep-walked through most of the second.

[Lar77]

We won by 30 against an overmatched opponent, but

Our outside shooting is showing improvement.
Matthew Hurt is showing improvement on D.
We came out ready to play.

But

We had trouble at times with the zone
We dribble too much on the inside - get the ball and put it up or pass out.
Stay focused (yes, it was a blowout early on so that is tough)
I hate 9PM games.

Nice bounce back from some disappointment. Tre is Batman and JGold is Robin (or Robbin')

[dukelifer]

I think many are probably thinking the same thing that I am which is that expected us to destroy a weakened Miami team who already seems to be an extremely favorable match-up for us. The losses to Clemson and Louisville leave me wanting to see us prove it against some new blood.



I have felt this way, too, but, as a junior, the kid must be consistently not doing what K wants. I can only imagine that they talk about focus and whatever else and then he goes in and immediately does something wrong. His comments about him over the years have always seemed colored by "needs to have a more serious demeanor" type of language and I can only imagine that whatever mistakes he is making, they are things that have been discussed with him ad nauseum and he's not good enough to warrant a longer leash.

AOC is clearly losing minutes to Baker who showing more each game. Baker is an elite shooter and seems to be a useful defender. I think he is a pretty strong kid. AOC has lost his way a bit but he could find it again. This team is still a work in progress. Stanley is rising and Carey is falling a bit of late. I think teams have figured Carey out and he has not quite adjusted. A long way to go. Just need to get the full team back and a run is certainly possible.

[Steven43]

I’m not sure why so many are concerned about the Clemson loss. ACC road games are tough, period. And Hurt took only one shot (ONE!), Moore didn’t play, and Baker didn’t play. All things considered that loss should not be anything to be worried about.

[jimsumner]

We won by 30 against an overmatched opponent, but

Our outside shooting is showing improvement.
Matthew Hurt is showing improvement on D.
We came out ready to play.

But

We had trouble at times with the zone
We dribble too much on the inside - get the ball and put it up or pass out.
Stay focused (yes, it was a blowout early on so that is tough)
I hate 9PM games.

Nice bounce back from some disappointment. Tre is Batman and JGold is Robin (or Robbin')

Inability to get to the foul line more was puzzling. Miami was only called for four fouls in the second half. But that can be partially explained by the fact that they didn't actually play much defense down the stretch. O'Connell's four late field goals were essentially unguarded.

[CDu]

Inability to get to the foul line more was puzzling. Miami was only called for four fouls in the second half. But that can be partially explained by the fact that they didn't actually play much defense down the stretch. O'Connell's four late field goals were essentially unguarded.

That and most of our initial second half shots in the half-court were jumpers. Those don't tend to draw fouls. Our layups/dunks in the second half were almost all on fast breaks or off of offensive rebounds.

[uh_no]

Inability to get to the foul line more was puzzling. Miami was only called for four fouls in the second half. But that can be partially explained by the fact that they didn't actually play much defense down the stretch. O'Connell's four late field goals were essentially unguarded.

it was a pretty terribly called game, overall. Several calls on both sides had me scratching my head. K was hot at one point.

[dukelifer]

Inability to get to the foul line more was puzzling. Miami was only called for four fouls in the second half. But that can be partially explained by the fact that they didn't actually play much defense down the stretch. O'Connell's four late field goals were essentially unguarded.

This strategy of playing little defense is one I wish more opponents would adopt- much better for the blood pressure and for getting to bed at a decent hour. Much appreciation to Miami for this and also in not trying to steal the ball at the end to avoid a big fight and shifting to focus to Duke to allow a reshowing of every one of Grayson Allen trips.

[mkirsh]

A few quick thoughts:

Pretty ho-hum 30 point win. I actually feel bad for Miami as they seemed spent and just couldn't compete, and the lack of life in the game seemed to make it hard for Duke to concentrate in the sloppy second half.

After the first 10 minutes, Coach K, likely looking to the week off ahead, was treating this as a practice and not playing the score. In the last minute of the first half he called a time out, drew up a play, and made an offense for defense sub with Baker and White. In the second half he seemed upset about execution, and as a result left the starters in to work on some things. I assume that is why the minutes don't reflect the blowout nature of the game.

AOC's utilization is a mystery - he made two appearances before the last 3 minutes, and in each had a weak TO and got immediately benched. But in the last 3 minutes he was the focal point of the offense and the team was force feeding him shots. I assume that came from the coaches and not the players on the floor? Really interesting psychology going on there. Hope it jump starts him.

Vitale (for those who did not mute) seemed insistent that Hurt was not a one-and-done player. I thought that a little odd, but he seemed plugged into ESPNs mock draft projections. But he also seemed to think that Tyus Jones was on the Pelicans, so who knows what is going on with him.

Anyway, I'll take a boring, easy 30 point win any day!

[Lurkingdukedog]

My thoughts:
- Jordan Goldwire has REALLY improved as a player. He's still not a great shooter, but he's improved his scoring ability enough to be respectable on that end.

There was that sequence in the first half when Miami was packed in their zone and we were passing the ball around the perimeter. At one point fairly deep into the shot clock, the ball ended up in Jordan's hands a little deeper than foul-line extended on the right. A long 2 and he buried it. Very nice to see.

[mkirsh]

Nice win against an overmatched opponent. With Lykes not at full strength and going against Tre Jones, Miami just doesn't have enough to compete with us. Especially when we are hitting 3s like we were. Fun win.

My thoughts:
- Jordan Goldwire has REALLY improved as a player. He's still not a great shooter, but he's improved his scoring ability enough to be respectable on that end. But he has also gotten much better DEFensively. Last year, Goldwire was a gimmick player who was good at pressing and overplaying in full-court defense. But he was a liability in the half court on both ends of the floor, and as such played sparingly. But this year he has just been so solid. His steal rate is up, his shooting percentages are up, while his turnover rate and foul rate are both down. He deserves a ton of credit for establishing himself as a legitimate ACC player.
- Similarly, Tre Jones has managed to improve his offense and increase his offensive responsibility from last year. That's a hard combo to achieve. But not only that, he has done so without it hurting his defense. He and Goldwire are such pests all over the court. I was skeptical that the duo could work as a regular pairing because of the shooting limitations, but both have made major strides on that end to be respectable from distance.
- Matthew Hurt can shoot. This was a great matchup for him (opponent weak defensively and playing some zone, and lacking a healthy and explosive playmaker to punish him on the other end). That's back-to-back good offensive games from Hurt. Hopefully it continues.
- Baker is a nice weapon to have on the bench whenever teams go zone. He doesn't do much else, but if left open he can sure make a three.
- Quiet game from Stanley other than the dunk. I'll let it slide given the blowout and his performances recently. :)
- Also a quiet game from Carey, somewhat surprisingly given the opponent. The Canes decided (after Carey torched them last time) to not let him be the guy to beat them last night. They really crowded him out, which left us a bunch of open shots. And boy did we hit them. Prior to last night, he had been really efficient the prior two games, so hopefully he'll bounce back next week.

Nice, fun win. Never in doubt after the opening minutes. Those are nice to have from time to time, especially after a couple of tough losses. Hopefully we can get healthy and take it to the back portion of our schedule!


Wasn't there a debate on here a few years ago about whether Goldwire would ever achieve Tyler Thornton level performance? His year so far looks A LOT like what Tyler did as a Junior:

Goldwire (Jr): 22.1 mins; 4.1 pts; 2.2 Rb; 2.7 Ast; 1.7 Stl; 0.3 Blk; 0.7 TO; 1.5 PF; .492/.320/.571 2pt/3pt/FT%

Thornton (Jr): 22.0 mins; 3.6 pts; 2.3 Rb; 2.2 Ast; 1.3 Stl; 0.1 Blk; 1.1 TO; 2.8 PF; .455/.392/.680 2pt/3pt/FT%

Thornton was a better shooter, but Goldwire has the edge in steals, assists, TOs, and fouls a lot less. He's worked hard and is having a huge impact on this team - congrats to him

[Lurkingdukedog]

Easy win from the beginning, that was a nice game to sit back and watch on mute. Loved watching Hurt play tonight as well as Stanley and Baker. I love when Baker is hitting his shots

I tend to watch a lot of the games on mute, too -- or did you just do this for Dickie V?

[Troublemaker]

Agreed, but I don't understand K's mentality there.

Sure, AOC wasn't strong with the ball when he got in - it really looked like he was finding his legs and hadn't gotten into game flow yet. But one turnover and he sits for a majority of an easy blowout win? Why not let him play through it a bit? I saw plenty of other bad turnovers from Duke where K kept the offending player in the game. Why does AOC have such a short leash?

He's shown he can produce in games, but when you get such a quick hook, you tend to overthink things even more. And overthinking rather than simply reacting has been AOC's issue since he's been there. When he just plays, he can put up points and get steals. But I'd be overly cautious, too, if I knew one mistake was going to get me yanked.

Let's keep some perspective here. I mean, AOC has received 6 starts this season, the most recent one less than 3 weeks ago. This is the one season where it's very difficult to say that any of the top 10 guys weren't given a chance by Coach K to produce.

If it ends up being that Wendell returns and Duke goes to a 9-man rotation with AOC being left out, that's still way deeper of a rotation than I could've dreamt of in the offseason.

One thing about AOC is that the longer 3-pt line this season doesn't have to affect everyone equally. Some players just have weird limits to their range. If what's happening to AOC on offense is basically that he's now a good long 2-pt shooter instead of a good 3-pt shooter under the new three-pt line, he's much less valuable a player to have on the court, according to a million stat dorks.

[Kedsy]

I saw an analytic breakdown on Duke several days ago - from something at ESPN.com - that said the analytics scream that Duke should shoot more threes. I'm not sure where K is with analytics, but it might indeed be a new tactic, or an adjusted one, compared to earlier in the season.

We talked about that article, I think in the Dork Polls thread, and if K uses analytics I hope he doesn't rely on that article because the analysis was flawed. In fact, before the Wake Forest game there was decent evidence suggesting that taking fewer threes led to Duke shooting a higher percentage from three (presumably because we were taking better shots). But we've taken 37% or more of our shots from three in each of the last four games, after doing that only twice in our previous 10 games. This would seem to be a strategic change. And though we've hit 40%+ in three of the four games, whether it's a good change remains to be seen.


I would think playing against a zone defense would raise the % threes, so no surprise there in the first half especially. Fast break points are also more likely against an undermanned team.

I would agree with you if it was a one-game thing. But as noted above, we've taken a lot of threes in four straight games, and not all of them were against zones. And we've had a lot of fast break points in five of six games, including our biggest total of the season against Louisville, which was clearly not an undermanned team.

[Steven43]

Let's keep some perspective here. I mean, AOC has received 6 starts this season, the most recent one less than 3 weeks ago. This is the one season where it's very difficult to say that any of the top 10 guys weren't given a chance by Coach K to produce.

If it ends up being that Wendell returns and Duke goes to a 9-man rotation with AOC being left out, that's still way deeper of a rotation than I could've dreamt of in the offseason.

One thing about AOC is that the longer 3-pt line this season doesn't have to affect everyone equally. Some players just have weird limits to their range. If what's happening to AOC on offense is basically that he's now a good long 2-pt shooter instead of a good 3-pt shooter under the new three-pt line, he's much less valuable a player to have on the court, according to a million stat dorks.
How much further (is it “further” or “farther”?) out is the 3-pt line this season?

[Troublemaker]

How much further (is it “further” or “farther”?) out is the 3-pt line this season?

Farther. 1.4 feet, essentially.

[Kedsy]

How much further (is it “further” or “farther”?) out is the 3-pt line this season?

Farther. Almost a foot and a half.


EDIT: Trouble beat me to it, on both counts.

[Neals384]

Agreed, but I don't understand K's mentality there.

Sure, AOC wasn't strong with the ball when he got in - it really looked like he was finding his legs and hadn't gotten into game flow yet. But one turnover and he sits for a majority of an easy blowout win? Why not let him play through it a bit? I saw plenty of other bad turnovers from Duke where K kept the offending player in the game. Why does AOC have such a short leash?

He's shown he can produce in games, but when you get such a quick hook, you tend to overthink things even more. And overthinking rather than simply reacting has been AOC's issue since he's been there. When he just plays, he can put up points and get steals. But I'd be overly cautious, too, if I knew one mistake was going to get me yanked.

Several posters commented on AOC, too many to quote all so not picking on you, FerryFor50, but...

It wasn't just one mistake. In his first half shift, AOC initially received a pass at the left 3 pt line, although the defender was closing, he had time to get off a clean shot in rhythm. Instead, he did a mini fake and then tried to dribble around the defender to the left. Apparently he didn't notice the defender had shaded his defense that way - the drive opening was to AOC's right. Nothing accomplished, and he passes back to Goldie. Same possession, AOC again receives a pass on the 3 pt line. This time he correctly recognizes the defender is too close for an open 3 pointer, so he dribbles to the right along the 3 point line. There's no advantage to allow him to penetrate for a close shot, but he continues, doesn't recognize the double coming and gets his pocket picked for a Miami runout and Duke foul. It's the under 8 TO, and AOC is back on the bench after one possession.

In his first 2nd half shift (8:54), AOC had a hand in two bad possessions. First, he received the ball at 3 pt line right, waited for a Hurt screen, Miami defended OK so there was no drive or pick and roll available. AOC dribbled a bit toward the center of the court, and passed the ball to Javin, whose entry pass to Hurt was intercepted for a Miami runout. Instead of passing it to Javin, a better option would have been Stanley, who was open on the 3 pt line left. Before AOC's pass, Goldie was directing traffic with his right arm out. Was he trying to alert AOC to how open Stanley was?

The next Duke possession, AOC set up left corner 3 pt line, had a good look for a 3 pointer that was short. Javin made a nice rebound, and tried to pass to AOC, who was headed into the paint. The pass was a bit off target, AOC took his eye off and it glanced off his fingertips for another Miami runout bucket and a Duke timeout. Instead of moving off ball toward the paint, a better option for AOC would have been to slide up the 3 pt line, where Javin's pass would have been easier and AOC would have had a totally open 3 pt try.

4 easy buckets in garbage time are fun, maybe help his confidence, but don't count for much. I really thought he would stay in the rotation until Wendell returns, but we may be just 8 deep now.

[FerryFor50]

Let's keep some perspective here. I mean, AOC has received 6 starts this season, the most recent one less than 3 weeks ago. This is the one season where it's very difficult to say that any of the top 10 guys weren't given a chance by Coach K to produce.

If it ends up being that Wendell returns and Duke goes to a 9-man rotation with AOC being left out, that's still way deeper of a rotation than I could've dreamt of in the offseason.

One thing about AOC is that the longer 3-pt line this season doesn't have to affect everyone equally. Some players just have weird limits to their range. If what's happening to AOC on offense is basically that he's now a good long 2-pt shooter instead of a good 3-pt shooter under the new three-pt line, he's much less valuable a player to have on the court, according to a million stat dorks.

Agree on the offense part of AOC, but he's got a nice midrange jumper, so that at least adds some value.

I know he's played in spurts, but most of his starts were either due to injuries/necessity or because Baker hadn't really come on yet. I'd buy the "he's a junior, he should know better" argument if I didn't see Delaurier fumbling away the ball constantly and still getting pretty consistent minutes.

A 20-30 pt blowout is a great game to get a guy some confidence by playing him despite mistakes. It's also a good game to kill their confidence by sitting him during most of it because of a single mistake.

[CDu]

I would agree with you if it was a one-game thing. But as noted above, we've taken a lot of threes in four straight games, and not all of them were against zones. And we've had a lot of fast break points in five of six games, including our biggest total of the season against Louisville, which was clearly not an undermanned team.

Well, the last four games have been against Miami (who played a lot of zone against us), Louisville (who plays a zone-like pack line defense that tends to force you to take more perimeter shots), Clemson (who allows more three point attempts than anyone in the ACC, #335 nationally), and Wake (who allows 3PA as often as Louisville). So while it is possible that we have had a philosophical shift towards shooting more 3s, it may just be that we have faced teams that allow a lot of 3s.

For what it is worth, against the last team we faced that generally prevents 3s (Georgia Tech) we attempted just 13 3s.

[jv001]

Great synopsis, other than a minor quibble with your comment of “Cassius had a quiet night”. He made some sensational plays that reminded me of a young Michael Jordan. I think this kid could be the “X” factor that pushes this team over the top...if he is fully unleashed.

Yeh, I had more positive stuff regarding Cassius, but somehow I deleted about half the post and when I reposted, I left the amazing dunk out. I know you've seen my posts regarding Cassius. I think he may be our best player and he'd been playing lights out but last night was kind of quiet comparing this game to the previous games. Funny he has a quiet game and we win big where as we lost two games where he played All ACC good but those losses were not on him. I'm certainly not down on Cassius. I love his toughness.

GoDuke!

[kako]

5 thoughts.

1. We have Miami's number. There is nothing about that team this year which I fear. If somehow Duke meets them again, I will be happy.

2. Nice game by Hurt. Hate to agree with Vitale, but I don't see Hurt coming out this year. He's hitting 3's more now, but I don't expect consistency. The guy needs Meatpie Monday. He's going to be a great piece of the puzzle next year.

3. I'm happy Carey did not take a 3 yesterday. Duke needs him in the paint, either as a scorer, rebounder or passing out of the double/triple team.

4. The Athletic has a piece up about Duke's 3 point shooting. I said it there, this year is not about Duke's 3 point shooting. It's not bad this year, but it is streaky. I usually am a big FT% proponent, but even that is not key this year. This team will live or die post-season by it's defense, ball-handling and rebounding.

5. This thread is so short. Did something else happen last night?

9F

[uh_no]

3. I'm happy Carey did not take a 3 yesterday. Duke needs him in the paint, either as a scorer, rebounder or passing out of the double/triple team.


he did.

[Tanner]

A few quick thoughts:

Pretty ho-hum 30 point win. I actually feel bad for Miami as they seemed spent and just couldn't compete, and the lack of life in the game seemed to make it hard for Duke to concentrate in the sloppy second half.

After the first 10 minutes, Coach K, likely looking to the week off ahead, was treating this as a practice and not playing the score. In the last minute of the first half he called a time out, drew up a play, and made an offense for defense sub with Baker and White. In the second half he seemed upset about execution, and as a result left the starters in to work on some things. I assume that is why the minutes don't reflect the blowout nature of the game.

AOC's utilization is a mystery - he made two appearances before the last 3 minutes, and in each had a weak TO and got immediately benched. But in the last 3 minutes he was the focal point of the offense and the team was force feeding him shots. I assume that came from the coaches and not the players on the floor? Really interesting psychology going on there. Hope it jump starts him.

Vitale (for those who did not mute) seemed insistent that Hurt was not a one-and-done player. I thought that a little odd, but he seemed plugged into ESPNs mock draft projections. But he also seemed to think that Tyus Jones was on the Pelicans, so who knows what is going on with him.

Anyway, I'll take a boring, easy 30 point win any day!

Does anyone think Vitale heard this from the staff while he was in town for the game or is it just his opinion. He was very adamant Hurt will be back for a sophomore season.

[weezie]

...Vitale... who knows what is going on with him...

This should be pinned over on the announcers thread.

What a pleasant surprise to see him up in the crow's nest last night. To see him and know everybody not at the game was having a fun night listening, muting, dialing in their short wave radios for the Tibetan broadcast of the game.

One other bit of news: Roger Ayers was in complete control of that game. Teddy V got his few patented what the h-e-hockeysticks calls in but good old Roger kept the reigns tight.

[MartyClark]

Does anyone think Vitale heard this from the staff while he was in town for the game or is it just his opinion. He was very adamant Hurt will be back for a sophomore season.

I would be very surprised if the Duke staff ventured opinions on Hurt's return, to Dickie V or anyone else.

[CDu]

Vitale (for those who did not mute) seemed insistent that Hurt was not a one-and-done player. I thought that a little odd, but he seemed plugged into ESPNs mock draft projections. But he also seemed to think that Tyus Jones was on the Pelicans, so who knows what is going on with him.

Vitale is just generally anti- early entry except for the most obvious cases. And given that virtually everyone who is doing draft projections has Hurt outside of the top-20 at this point (only two sites I've found have him in the top-30), it's not unreasonable for him to suggest that Hurt shouldn't be a one-and-done guy.

And, honestly, it makes sense. He doesn't have good measurables (too scrawny, limited run/jump/shiftiness athleticism), doesn't have a clear position (short and short-armed for an NBA PF, probably not athletic enough for NBA SF), and hasn't shown much other than shooting. Barring some real emergence of other skills, he's a niche NBA player. And those guys don't usually get drafted well.

Now, I am not sure if those points help the case for him to stay (they are things that would probably keep him out of the first round this year) or hurt it (because they are hard to improve upon, he might be just as well off going sooner rather than getting "old" and still having the same limitations). But I can see why Vitale would say it. Hurt clearly isn't ready to play in the NBA physically right now, and I think that's why he was saying Hurt isn't a one-and-done.

I doubt it has anything to do with any conversations Vitale has had with the staff or with Hurt. I think it's just Vitale being Vitale and sharing his opinion.

[Steven43]

Wasn't there a debate on here a few years ago about whether Goldwire would ever achieve Tyler Thornton level performance? His year so far looks A LOT like what Tyler did as a Junior:

Goldwire (Jr): 22.1 mins; 4.1 pts; 2.2 Rb; 2.7 Ast; 1.7 Stl; 0.3 Blk; 0.7 TO; 1.5 PF; .492/.320/.571 2pt/3pt/FT%

Thornton (Jr): 22.0 mins; 3.6 pts; 2.3 Rb; 2.2 Ast; 1.3 Stl; 0.1 Blk; 1.1 TO; 2.8 PF; .455/.392/.680 2pt/3pt/FT%

Thornton was a better shooter, but Goldwire has the edge in steals, assists, TOs, and fouls a lot less. He's worked hard and is having a huge impact on this team - congrats to him
Tyler Thornton shot THIRTY FREAKING NINE.2% from the 3-pt. line as a junior??!! I would have guessed more like 32%, tops. I’m kind of in shock right now.

[CDu]

Tyler Thornton shot THIRTY FREAKING NINE.2% from the 3-pt. line as a junior??!! I would have guessed more like 32%, tops. I’m kind of in shock right now.

He shot 45% from 3 as a senior.

[mkirsh]

He shot 45% from 3 as a senior.

After his freshman year, Tyler was a very similar player for his Soph through Senior years in terms of playing time, points, rebounds, assists, steals, TOs, fouls, etc, with the exception of his shooting. His 3pt shooting got better each year (35.1% - 39.2% - 45.0%), 2pt shooting got worse (46.2% - 45.5% - 33.3%), and FT shooting jumped around a bit (75% - 68% - 85.7%). Like Steven, i don't recall him hitting at that high a clip, but he was only attempting 1.7 threes per game.

[roywhite]

Tyler Thornton shot THIRTY FREAKING NINE.2% from the 3-pt. line as a junior??!! I would have guessed more like 32%, tops. I’m kind of in shock right now.

And he shot even better in Maui.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Usmcy0Ob_Oc

[rsvman]

Yeah, Goldwire's stats are essentially the same or BETTER than Thornton in every respect except for shooting. I remember Thornton to be a reliable three-point shooter, and the numbers back up my memory.

But Goldwire is definitely a lot more valuable to this team than I thought he would be at this point in the season. He's also the kind of player that Coach K has valued highly over the years. A hardworking, tough, tenacious defensive player who values the ball and is predictable from game to game.

[kako]

Wasn't there a debate on here a few years ago about whether Goldwire would ever achieve Tyler Thornton level performance? His year so far looks A LOT like what Tyler did as a Junior:

Goldwire (Jr): 22.1 mins; 4.1 pts; 2.2 Rb; 2.7 Ast; 1.7 Stl; 0.3 Blk; 0.7 TO; 1.5 PF; .492/.320/.571 2pt/3pt/FT%

Thornton (Jr): 22.0 mins; 3.6 pts; 2.3 Rb; 2.2 Ast; 1.3 Stl; 0.1 Blk; 1.1 TO; 2.8 PF; .455/.392/.680 2pt/3pt/FT%

Thornton was a better shooter, but Goldwire has the edge in steals, assists, TOs, and fouls a lot less. He's worked hard and is having a huge impact on this team - congrats to him

Yes, I know I posted that I was very happy that Duke recruited a 3-star PG with the hopes that he would mature into a rotation player when he hit his upperclassman years. It's working out well. And assuming Jones goes pro (not a done deal due to shooting - but if Ben Simmons can go pro with his shot, Jones probably can, too), having JGold around will be a big plus for the offense next year. He can play PG in tandem with Jeremy Roach. If he works on his shot more, he may even start. Can Duke do it again? Maybe not next year, as their draft class is pretty full. But maybe 2021? It's a nice formula.

9F

[MartyClark]

Yeah, Goldwire's stats are essentially the same or BETTER than Thornton in every respect except for shooting. I remember Thornton to be a reliable three-point shooter, and the numbers back up my memory.

But Goldwire is definitely a lot more valuable to this team than I thought he would be at this point in the season. He's also the kind of player that Coach K has valued highly over the years. A hardworking, tough, tenacious defensive player who values the ball and is predictable from game to game.

Goldwire reminds me of Sean Dockery.

Sean didn't get as much playing time as Goldwire because he was playing on more talented teams.

What do you think? Good comparison or not?

[Steven43]

He shot 45% from 3 as a senior.

Okay, I’m completely dumbfounded now. You guys aren’t just messing with me, are you?

[Steven43]

And he shot even better in Maui.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Usmcy0Ob_Oc

Okay, his second 3-pointer (at the 30 second mark) may have been the strangest-looking shooting form I have ever seen for a shot that went down so smoothly. Unbelievable.

I wish I knew why Coach K didn’t try to set Tyler up for more 3-pt attempts. Yes, I know he was primarily shooting open set-shots, but still.

[Kedsy]

Goldwire reminds me of Sean Dockery.

Sean didn't get as much playing time as Goldwire because he was playing on more talented teams.

What do you think? Good comparison or not?

Actually, Dockery played a fair amount more than Goldwire (Dockery: 10 mpg as a Fr/ 15 as a So/ 27 as a Jr/ 30 as a Sr; Goldwire: 5/8/22/?).

The comparison is interesting, as they're similar size and both were/are defensively oriented. Sean shot poorly as a frosh and soph, but shot 43% from three as a junior and 40% as a senior, which is better than anything Jordan has showed (at least so far).

But to me, the biggest difference is Dockery was an athletic, highly rated recruit (a huge scorer in high school; #21 RSCI) who somewhat underachieved at Duke, while Goldwire was a moderately unathletic, unheralded recruit who has overachieved. Maybe that's not important, but to me it feels like it is. That's why Tyler Thornton seems to be the more natural comparison.

But yours isn't bad.

[CDu]

Actually, Dockery played a fair amount more than Goldwire (Dockery: 10 mpg as a Fr/ 15 as a So/ 27 as a Jr/ 30 as a Sr; Goldwire: 5/8/22/?).

The comparison is interesting, as they're similar size and both were/are defensively oriented. Sean shot poorly as a frosh and soph, but shot 43% from three as a junior and 40% as a senior, which is better than anything Jordan has showed (at least so far).

But to me, the biggest difference is Dockery was an athletic, highly rated recruit (a huge scorer in high school; #21 RSCI) who somewhat underachieved at Duke, while Goldwire was a moderately unathletic, unheralded recruit who has overachieved. Maybe that's not important, but to me it feels like it is. That's why Tyler Thornton seems to be the more natural comparison.

But yours isn't bad.

I think Goldwire is closer in quickness/shiftiness to Dockery than he is to Thornton. Goldwire was just really light on skills coming out of high school, and plays a position where there are lots of somewhat talented guys. Dockery was much stronger and much more skilled (elite scorer in high school in Chicago). Dockery could also jump better than Goldwire.

Thornton was a higher-skill, low-athleticism guy. He just didn’t have the quickness to play PG at the ACC level. If Goldwire had Thornton’s skill set, he would be, well, a lot like Tre Jones. Conversely if Thornton had Goldwire’s quickness, he would have been a heck of a college PG rather than an undersized SG/SF.