This Week in the ACC - 1/6-1/12

[pfrduke]

3-4 games into the season and only two teams - Duke and Virginia - have made it through unscathed. UVA is doing it on the back of their defense, which has been nothing short of amazing in conference play. In three wins against UNC, VT, and Syracuse, UVA has given up 47, 39, and 34 points, allowing just a 32.2 EFG% including 14% from 3, and only allowing teams to rebound 18% of all of those many missed shots. Duke's in-conference defense has been very strong - just 81.4 points per 100 possessions - and yet it pales in comparison to the 'Hoos, who have allowed just 67 points per 100. There will be a little regression, because that level of defense is unsustainable, but so far, no one can score on Virginia.

Monday is dark

Tuesday
[6]Louisville (2-1) (-14) hosts [86]Miami (1-2) (7:00, ESPN2)
[147]Boston College (2-1) (+7) hosts [26]Virginia (3-0) (7:00, ACCN)
[62]Syracuse (1-2) (-4) hosts [69]Virginia Tech (1-2) (9:00, ACCN)

Wednesday
[58]North Carolina (1-2) (-5) hosts [82]Pittsburgh (1-2) (7:00, ACCN)
[45]NC State (1-2) (-6) hosts [61]Notre Dame (1-2) (7:00, ESPN2)
[90]Wake Forest (1-2) (+6) hosts [13]Florida State (3-1) (7:30, ACCNX)
[88]Georgia Tech (1-2) (+12) hosts [1]Duke (3-0) (9:00, ACCN)

Thursday and Friday are dark

Saturday
[61]Notre Dame (1-2) (+4) hosts [6]Louisville (2-1) (2:00, ESPN)
[69]Virginia Tech (1-2) (-1) hosts [45]NC State (1-2) (2:00, ACCNX)
[26]Virginia (3-0) (-7) hosts [62]Syracuse (1-2) (4:00, ESPN)
[58]North Carolina (1-2) (-7) hosts [95]Clemson (1-3) (4:30, ACCNX)
[147]Boston College (2-1) (+1) hosts [88]Georgia Tech (1-2) (6:00, ACCN)
[1]Duke (3-0) (-19) hosts [90]Wake Forest (1-2) (8:00, ACCN)

Sunday
[89]Miami (1-2) (-3) hosts [82]Pittsburgh (1-2) (6:00, ACCN)

ACC Non-Conference: 119-41
ACC vs. Power 5: 23-26

(This will be the last conference-by-conference rundown since non-conference play is done until tournament time)
America East: 5-0
American: 4-3
Atlantic-10: 2-3
Atlantic Sun: 4-0
Big XII: 3-3
Big East: 2-2
Big Sky: 1-0
Big South: 10-0
Big Ten: 9-11
Big West: 2-0
Colonial: 5-0
CUSA: 4-1
Horizon: 5-0
Ivy: 5-1
MAAC: 2-0
MAC: 4-1
MEAC: 8-0
MVC: 2-0
MWC: 2-0
Northeast: 8-0
Ohio Valley: 1-1
Pac-12: 6-2
Patriot: 5-0
SEC: 3-8
Southern: 7-1
Southland: 1-2
Sun Belt: 2-0
SWAC: 5-0
WAC: 2-0
WCC: 0-2

Efficiency Margin in Conference Play:
Duke - +40.3
Virginia - +26.8
Florida State - +16.0
Syracuse - +9.3
Louisville - +9.2
NC State - -1.3
Notre Dame - -5.2
North Carolina - -5.4
Wake Forest - -5.6
Clemson - -7.3
Georgia Tech - -10.6
Pittsburgh - -10.6
Boston College - -14.2
Virginia Tech - -16.5
Miami - -18.9

[brevity]

Saturday
[58]North Carolina (1-2) (-7) hosts [95]Clemson (1-3) (4:30, ACCNX)

Hey, could this finally be the year that [BANNED BY MODERATORS]

[UrinalCake]

Duke is also outscoring our ACC opponents by 28.7ppg. I’d say our offense has been just as impressive as UVA’s defense.

[JasonEvans]

Not a good week in terms of matchups. According to the projected lines only 3 games are one-possession (3 points or less) contests.

[OldPhiKap]

Not a good week in terms of matchups. According to the projected lines only 3 games are one-possession (3 points or less) contests.

And only four games that are watchable here in Comcastville, including two on Saturday (against some sort of football I assume).

“ACCN — killing the golden goose one week at a time.”

[devildeac]

Ich bin ein Panther.

9F.

[TKG]

Ich bin ein Panther.

9F.

What will it say about the direction of Capel’s program if he cannot win in Chapel Hill this week?

[DarkstarWahoo]

So a few games into the season, I know a lot can change, but I'm having a really hard time identifying any dark horse candidates for the double bye. Top tier seems pretty clear to me - Duke, FSU, Louisville, UVA, in that order. The others:

- Chapel Hill looked horrendous at home against a 6-7 GT team despite Garrison Brooks having a career game. They're completely lost without Anthony. I'm baffled at how Roy has a roster with, what 8-9 complete zeroes for this year?
- NC State took a bad loss to a very bad Clemson team, and that's after losing at home to GT. (Sensing a theme here - do you guys play GT at Cameron this year? BEWARE.) I still think they're the most likely to break into the top 4, but you really have to squint to see it.
- I think it's pretty clear after this weekend that the Hokies aren't a threat.
- I had looked for Pitt to maybe overachieve this year, but losing at home to Wake puts a big dent in that theory.
- You guys saw Miami this weekend. They haven't looked good all year.
- GT has a chance to play spoiler with some teams, but are they even playing in the ACCT?
- Cuse, ND, BC, Wake, Clemson...crap all around.

So that leaves the four teams I mentioned. You guys have consistently looked the best out of that group and we've looked the worst. I'd put Duke and FSU in one tier and Louisville and UVA in another - I think Louisville has real chemistry issues. But things are going to have to crater for any of those teams to drop out of the top 4.

[jv001]

So a few games into the season, I know a lot can change, but I'm having a really hard time identifying any dark horse candidates for the double bye. Top tier seems pretty clear to me - Duke, FSU, Louisville, UVA, in that order. The others:

- Chapel Hill looked horrendous at home against a 6-7 GT team despite Garrison Brooks having a career game. They're completely lost without Anthony. I'm baffled at how Roy has a roster with, what 8-9 complete zeroes for this year?
- NC State took a bad loss to a very bad Clemson team, and that's after losing at home to GT. (Sensing a theme here - do you guys play GT at Cameron this year? BEWARE.) I still think they're the most likely to break into the top 4, but you really have to squint to see it.
- I think it's pretty clear after this weekend that the Hokies aren't a threat.
- I had looked for Pitt to maybe overachieve this year, but losing at home to Wake puts a big dent in that theory.
- You guys saw Miami this weekend. They haven't looked good all year.
- GT has a chance to play spoiler with some teams, but are they even playing in the ACCT?
- Cuse, ND, BC, Wake, Clemson...crap all around.

So that leaves the four teams I mentioned. You guys have consistently looked the best out of that group and we've looked the worst. I'd put Duke and FSU in one tier and Louisville and UVA in another - I think Louisville has real chemistry issues. But things are going to have to crater for any of those teams to drop out of the top 4.

No, not in Cameron but we do play them Wednesday night at GT and I think after SFA, our guys will not be over confident again this season. GoDuke!

[ChillinDuke]

No, not in Cameron but we do play them Wednesday night at GT and I think after SFA, our guys will not be over confident again this season. GoDuke!

Yeah, I actually like playing GT next. They're coming off that monster game at Chapel Hill. I'm hoping they soaked that in a little too hard.

- Chillin

[jv001]

Yeah, I actually like playing GT next. They're coming off that monster game at Chapel Hill. I'm hoping they soaked that in a little too hard.

- Chillin

Yes, this might just be the best time to play the jackets.

GoDuke!

[OldPhiKap]

So a few games into the season, I know a lot can change, but I'm having a really hard time identifying any dark horse candidates for the double bye. Top tier seems pretty clear to me - Duke, FSU, Louisville, UVA, in that order. The others:

- Chapel Hill looked horrendous at home against a 6-7 GT team despite Garrison Brooks having a career game. They're completely lost without Anthony. I'm baffled at how Roy has a roster with, what 8-9 complete zeroes for this year?
- NC State took a bad loss to a very bad Clemson team, and that's after losing at home to GT. (Sensing a theme here - do you guys play GT at Cameron this year? BEWARE.) I still think they're the most likely to break into the top 4, but you really have to squint to see it.
- I think it's pretty clear after this weekend that the Hokies aren't a threat.
- I had looked for Pitt to maybe overachieve this year, but losing at home to Wake puts a big dent in that theory.
- You guys saw Miami this weekend. They haven't looked good all year.
- GT has a chance to play spoiler with some teams, but are they even playing in the ACCT?
- Cuse, ND, BC, Wake, Clemson...crap all around.

So that leaves the four teams I mentioned. You guys have consistently looked the best out of that group and we've looked the worst. I'd put Duke and FSU in one tier and Louisville and UVA in another - I think Louisville has real chemistry issues. But things are going to have to crater for any of those teams to drop out of the top 4.

As usual, DarkstarWahoo nails it.

[SkyBrickey]

Yes, this might just be the best time to play the jackets.

GoDuke!

I watched the game against UNC. GT has some nice pieces and is now playing at full strength with both Alvarado and Usher. They are definitely better than their record indicates. The guy who surprised me was Moses Wright. Look forward to breaking it down in a pregame thread.

[Troublemaker]

What will it say about the direction of Capel’s program if he cannot win in Chapel Hill this week?

That when you're 4-pt underdogs or so, sometimes you lose? Seriously, Pitt won't even be the favorite here.

[CameronBornAndBred]

Going into the week, there are only 5 teams with a .500 or better conference record.

[BD80]

Going into the week, there are only 5 teams with a .500 or better conference record.

But the average is .500?

[MChambers]

But the average is .500?

Not this year. It's a down year for the ACC, so almost all the teams are below .500, even in conference play. ;-)

[CameronBornAndBred]

But the average is .500?


Not this year. It's a down year for the ACC, so almost all the teams are below .500, even in conference play. ;-)

That .500 hat of pride goes to one and only team, Georgia Tech. Four teams above them (all ranked), and the rest of the league below them as lowly losers.

Ooops, edit, there are 6 teams at .500 or better, 5 above GT. I miss counted earlier. Only BC has a winning record and is not ranked.

[CameronDuke]

The Hokies are +4.5 at Cuse tonight. I’d be all over that line if I were a betting man. I think the Hokies may even win. They are coming off getting embarrassed at UVa and I expect there won’t be a big crowd at Cuse inside the Carrier Dome. Well, not the typical 40,000 they draw for Duke.

I think UVa will win big at BC and the Hoos are -8.5. I think Miami will lose big at Louisville, too. Slow starts for Miami and BC this season.

[DukeFanSince1990]

Roy Williams, master motivator.

10069

[Tripping William]

Roy Williams, master motivator.

10069

And it’s as if someone else recruited those stiffs.

[BandAlum83]

And only four games that are watchable here in Comcastville, including two on Saturday (against some sort of football I assume).

“ACCN — killing the golden goose one week at a time.”

Amen to that, OPK!

I'll be seeing our guys in person this week!

[BandAlum83]

Roy Williams, master motivator.

10069

Interesting. I wonder who recruited said untalented team?

[Dr. Rosenrosen]

Interesting. I wonder who recruited said untalented team?
Gonna have to go buy a LOT more popcorn.

[devildeac]

Gonna have to go buy a LOT more popcorn.

And Coca Cola :rolleyes:!!

[devildeac]

Roy Williams, master motivator.

10069

I see ol roy is still not in the dadgum Christmas spirit :rolleyes:.

[JetpackJesus]

Roy Williams, master motivator.

10069

This ESPN article (https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/28441970/roy-williams-calls-unc-team-least-gifted-ever-coached) about his radio show comments has a few more quotes. I don't get why any recruits would want to play for him. I mean, I've never tried it, but I would imagine it's really hard to play well from underneath a bus. It's probably pretty dang uncomfortable, too.

[Troublemaker]

The Hokies are +4.5 at Cuse tonight. I’d be all over that line if I were a betting man. I think the Hokies may even win. They are coming off getting embarrassed at UVa and I expect there won’t be a big crowd at Cuse inside the Carrier Dome. Well, not the typical 40,000 they draw for Duke.

I think UVa will win big at BC and the Hoos are -8.5. I think Miami will lose big at Louisville, too. Slow starts for Miami and BC this season.

Well, nothing's stopping you from competing in the Degenerates league, my friend: https://forums.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showthread.php?44297-Degenerate-Gamblers-Rejoice!-The-2019-20-Picking-Contest-is-Here!!

The competition is real but the dollars are fake.

Sign up and show off your basketball knowledge!

[scottdude8]

This is just extraordinary... how do you recruit after saying something like this about your players?

https://es.pn/2T4mfb5

[TKG]

Hey, Roy, YOU recruited those guys. Perhaps YOU are a neither a "gifted" recruiter nor a "gifted" coach.

[Dr. Rosenrosen]

This ESPN article (https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/28441970/roy-williams-calls-unc-team-least-gifted-ever-coached) about his radio show comments has a few more quotes. I don't get why any recruits would want to play for him. I mean, I've never tried it, but I would imagine it's really hard to play well from underneath a bus. It's probably pretty dang uncomfortable, too.
I take back my comment about popcorn. I gotta go buy some extra six packs! Seems a few selections from Burial would be highly appropriate!

[devildeac]

I take back my comment about popcorn. I gotta go buy some extra six packs! Seems a few selections from Burial would be highly appropriate!


Great idea! And, when you do, please join us here to let us know what you tasted:

https://forums.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showthread.php?3840-Ymm-Beer

[Troublemaker]

This ESPN article (https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/28441970/roy-williams-calls-unc-team-least-gifted-ever-coached) about his radio show comments has a few more quotes. I don't get why any recruits would want to play for him. I mean, I've never tried it, but I would imagine it's really hard to play well from underneath a bus. It's probably pretty dang uncomfortable, too.


I take back my comment about popcorn. I gotta go buy some extra six packs! Seems a few selections from Burial would be highly appropriate!

Some of those are daggers. "Your A-game may not even be an A-game."

[Tripping William]

I take back my comment about popcorn. I gotta go buy some extra six packs! Seems a few selections from Burial would be highly appropriate!

The Ymmm Beer crowd anxiously awaits your reviews. We love Burial!

[devildeac]

Great idea! And, when you do, please join us here to let us know what you tasted:

https://forums.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showthread.php?3840-Ymm-Beer


The Ymmm Beer crowd anxiously awaits your reviews. We love Burial!

Great minds and all that stuff...

:D

[HereBeforeCoachK]

I was waiting for this to be posted.....

[ndkjr70]

Kehei Clarke has Kyrie Irving’s ability to just run past everyone with so much control, and then just... like... no other offensive talent. Airballing layups, throwing to the wrong team, passing up wide open looks to rapid fire dribble to the top of the key.

Bizarre player.

[Dr. Rosenrosen]

The Ymmm Beer crowd anxiously awaits your reviews. We love Burial!
Yes. I found one yesterday that I’ve not tried before... Hellstar Dark Lager. I’ll let y’all know!

[Tripping William]

I was waiting for this to be posted....

Perfectly appropriate thread, but this was being discussed earlier in at least two others (the This Week thread and the Can Clemson Finally Win in Chapel Hill thread). Maybe some kind of merge?

[MChambers]

In my view, no news about UNCheat belongs in a thread other than a ACC thread.

[scottdude8]

Perfectly appropriate thread, but this was being discussed earlier in at least two others (the This Week thread and the Can Clemson Finally Win in Chapel Hill thread). Maybe some kind of merge?

Oops, my bad then! Definitely could/should be merged.

[SavDukeGrad]

I have to say, it is making me feel good tonight to see Louisville and Virginia struggle with teams that we have just beaten by 30+.

[ndkjr70]

Choke job of epic proportions for Boston college.

This UVA team erasing a lead of 10 is like another team erasing a 25 point defect.

[CameronDuke]

Well, nothing's stopping you from competing in the Degenerates league, my friend: https://forums.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showthread.php?44297-Degenerate-Gamblers-Rejoice!-The-2019-20-Picking-Contest-is-Here!!

The competition is real but the dollars are fake.

Sign up and show off your basketball knowledge!

Thanks!

[ndkjr70]

The 94% free throw shooter has three HUGE free throw misses for BC down the stretch. They desperately do not want to win this game.

UVA looks incredibly mediocre.

[Eternal Outlaw]

Choke job of epic proportions for Boston college.

This UVA team erasing a lead of 10 is like another team erasing a 25 point defect.

They are missing players from sickness, including their top and 3rd leading scorer, BC isn't choking, they are battling a ranked team with a good chunk of theirs missing.

[ndkjr70]

Ok google how do I delete my DBR posts

[AGDukesky]

UVA with another head-scratcher performance

[-jk]

Another umbc: University in Massachusetts, Boston College.

-jk

[SavDukeGrad]

Wow. BC hangs on to defeat UVa by 7. And Derryck Thornton was out for the game too.

[CameronBornAndBred]

Duke is the last team with an undefeated conference record...and there have only been 3 or 4 games played.

[ElliottHoo]

Wow. BC hangs on to defeat UVa by 7. And Derryck Thornton was out for the game too.

Yeah, and Virginia's Braxton Key (just back from a broken wrist) was holding his wrist in pain at the end. If he's rebroken it or is out for a significant length of time, not only is UVA probably an NIT team, we're not even an especially good NIT team.

[CameronDuke]

BC beats UVa 60-53 without their leading scorer Derryck Thornton. That’s a BAD loss for UVa. They shot 17-52 overall and 3-16 from 3. They just can’t put the ball in the hoop thus far this year. Don’t know if it will really ever get much better for them this year. Clark for UVa seems like he tries to do too much at times as PG. He finished 2-11 from the floor tonight. I thought Huff would be doing more this year for UVa too.

Boston College was 144 on Kenpom entering the game.

[OldPhiKap]

Yeah, and Virginia's Braxton Key (just back from a broken wrist) was holding his wrist in pain at the end. If he's rebroken it or is out for a significant length of time, not only is UVA probably an NIT team, we're not even an especially good NIT team.

I hope it is just a tweak — hate to see any kid hurt.

[Troublemaker]

Wow. BC hangs on to defeat UVa by 7. And Derryck Thornton was out for the game too.

And Popovic was still out, too. (Although he's been out for awhile and they're arguably better going small, despite Popovic being one of their leading scorers).


UVA with another head-scratcher performance

They lost almost all their good players from the championship team. I don't think it's that head-scratching :-)

This season, the goal for UVA should be to make the tournament.

[SavDukeGrad]

Yeah, and Virginia's Braxton Key (just back from a broken wrist) was holding his wrist in pain at the end. If he's rebroken it or is out for a significant length of time, not only is UVA probably an NIT team, we're not even an especially good NIT team.

I saw that. He caught himself with his left hand when he fell. Hope it’s not rebroken - hate to see any injuries.

[CameronDuke]

Most of the time, I am amazed how accurately Vegas predicts lines for games and how close they get to spreads. At other times, I’m equally amazed how off the lines can be. UVa was -8.5 tonight and lost by 7. Thats a 15.5 point swing.

Certainly not as mind boggling as Duke being like -34 or so to Steven F. Austin and losing by 2. College basketball is weird sometimes.

[duke2x]

The :confused: is BC tied for 2nd with FSU, Louisville, and UVA. I've seen BC equated with a bottom 5 ACC team on DBR recently. I know it's early, but we beat the 2nd place team by 39 at home. :) Too bad 40 point swings between Cameron and road venues are not uncommon. :(

[devildeac]

Another umbc: University in Massachusetts, Boston College.

-jk

Well played, -jk!

[CameronDuke]

The loss to BC dropped UVa all the way down to 36th on Kenpom. UVa’s defense is still ranked 1st in the nation but their offense is all the way down to 199th. I’d be shocked to see UVa ranked in either the AP Poll or Coaches Poll next week.

UVa is now shooting 73-267 (27.3%) from 3 for the season. Casey Morsell is actually 9-59 from 3 for UVa, good for 15.3%.

The attendance at BC was horrible tonight. Only 5,781 got to see the upset. The Conte Forum actually seats 8,606 for basketball games.

[MChambers]

Yeah, and Virginia's Braxton Key (just back from a broken wrist) was holding his wrist in pain at the end. If he's rebroken it or is out for a significant length of time, not only is UVA probably an NIT team, we're not even an especially good NIT team.

Still better than UNCheat!

[CameronDuke]

Pitt is +5 in chapel hill vs the heels tonight.

[CameronDuke]

The Virginia Tech Hokies went up to the Carrier Dome and beat Cuse 67-63 last night.

Slow start for Cuse this year.

[DarkstarWahoo]

It was a very bad loss for UVA, and I hate to speak ill of any member of the Duke Extended Universe here, but I really think Thornton being out was a positive for BC. He's not good, and he thinks he is, and that's a bad combination. Him being on the bench cleared minutes for the backup, Heath, who took it to Clark repeatedly.

The early word on Key is that he'll be OK, but I don't know that he's had X-rays yet.

[Steven43]

It was a very bad loss for UVA, and I hate to speak ill of any member of the Duke Extended Universe here, but I really think Thornton being out was a positive for BC. He's not good, and he thinks he is, and that's a bad combination. Him being on the bench cleared minutes for the backup, Heath, who took it to Clark repeatedly.

The early word on Key is that he'll be OK, but I don't know that he's had X-rays yet.

Why was Thornton out? And why do you think he thinks he’s good? Has he made some overly braggadocious comments? I haven’t read anything about Thornton in quite awhile and I’m just curious.

[jv001]

Why was Thornton out? And why do you think he thinks he’s good? Has he made some overly braggadocious comments? I haven’t read anything about Thornton in quite awhile and I’m just curious.

I don't know Steven43 but maybe Darkstar sees Derryck's leaving other schools as a sign that he thinks he's better than he really is. It looks to me that Derryck has regressed since his freshman year at Duke. I feel sorry for the young man for letting his family derail his career.

He's been injured I believe(reason for being out).

GoDuke!

[devildeac]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1rGqaMkoiyg

"...Sweet Caroline
(Let's Go Pitt)
Good times never seemed so good
(Go Pitt, Go Pitt, Go Pitt)
I've been inclined
(Let's Go Pitt)..."

[fan345678]

The Virginia Tech Hokies went up to the Carrier Dome and beat Cuse 67-63 last night.

Slow start for Cuse this year.

VT had 20 assists on 21 made field goals. The lone unassisted one was a steal and a breakaway dunk. They may have just shot threes (albeit only 10-36) and jump shots over the zone, but they sure moved the ball around the right way to do it.

[jv001]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1rGqaMkoiyg

"...Sweet Caroline
(Let's Go Pitt)
Good times never seemed so good
(Go Pitt, Go Pitt, Go Pitt)
I've been inclined
(Let's Go Pitt)..."

Maybe 2nd to: "Devil in a Blue Dress". :cool:

GoDuke!

[JasonEvans]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1rGqaMkoiyg

"...Sweet Caroline
(Let's Go Pitt)
Good times never seemed so good
(Go Pitt, Go Pitt, Go Pitt)
I've been inclined
(Let's Go Pitt)..."

I did not know that was a thing but that is amazing!!

[BandAlum83]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1rGqaMkoiyg

"...Sweet Caroline
(Let's Go Pitt)
Good times never seemed so good
(Go Pitt, Go Pitt, Go Pitt)
I've been inclined
(Let's Go Pitt)..."

That's actually pretty gosh darn cool!

[Neals384]

The Virginia Tech Hokies went up to the Carrier Dome and beat Cuse 67-63 last night.

Slow start for Cuse this year.

Cuse led by 9 with 12 to go before 21-4 run by Tech. Jalen Cone with two 4 point plays in the run, and a third 3 pointer to boot.

[DarkstarWahoo]

I don't know Steven43 but maybe Darkstar sees Derryck's leaving other schools as a sign that he thinks he's better than he really is. It looks to me that Derryck has regressed since his freshman year at Duke. I feel sorry for the young man for letting his family derail his career.

He's been injured I believe(reason for being out).

GoDuke!
That's a lot of it, plus his high usage rates in general. He's taken nearly 40 more 2s than the next-highest player despite having the second-worst shooting percentage on them in the BC rotation. I really think they're better off with Heath running the backcourt.

[Acymetric]

"...Sweet Caroline
(Let's Go Pitt)
Good times never seemed so good
(Go Pitt, Go Pitt, Go Pitt)
I've been inclined
(Let's Go Pitt)..."

I thought that was a big Penn State thing...Pitt does it too?

[devildeac]

I thought that was a big Penn State thing...Pitt does it too?

Ha! I had no idea it was a Penn State thing.

Lemme get home tonight and I'll link some of the articles 'splaining it. I remember (not totally reliable:o) reading that other pro/college teams have randomly/repeatedly sung it but I first learned about it visiting friends in the Pitt section at WW during the 58-55 (?) game several years ago.

[Wahoo2000]

We (UVA) were bad yesterday. BAD. I really think we're worse now than we were at the beginning of the season. The players are finally starting to let the shooting woes affect them mentally. Defense has actually declined (despite still being first nationally) over the last month or so, and turnover rates have been rising.

I *really* thought the 3pt shooting woes for Morsell/Stattmann/Woldetensae would have resolved by 10 or so games into the season. These guys are nailing 3s at a good clip in practices and pregames (as well as demonstrated solid-very good shooting at other levels), but it just doesn't translate to games. The recruiting misses we had in 17 and 18 are *really* rearing their ugly heads now. With a program soooo based on player development - to unexpectedly lose Guy (and Jerome to a lesser extent).... it's left us pretty bare on the perimeter. If we came up short of the FF last year, we'd almost definitely keep Guy, and *probably* Jerome too. That said, I'll trade a title last year for a tough season this year in a heartbeat.

Still think that given the general horribleness of the ACC overall (and CBB in general to a lesser extent) we can still compete for top 4 in the league and an NCAA bid. Unlike previous seasons though, those things are not certainties, and we'll have to compete our butts off to get there.

[BandAlum83]

We (UVA) were bad yesterday. BAD. I really think we're worse now than we were at the beginning of the season. The players are finally starting to let the shooting woes affect them mentally. Defense has actually declined (despite still being first nationally) over the last month or so, and turnover rates have been rising.

I *really* thought the 3pt shooting woes for Morsell/Stattmann/Woldetensae would have resolved by 10 or so games into the season. These guys are nailing 3s at a good clip in practices and pregames (as well as demonstrated solid-very good shooting at other levels), but it just doesn't translate to games. The recruiting misses we had in 17 and 18 are *really* rearing their ugly heads now. With a program soooo based on player development - to unexpectedly lose Guy (and Jerome to a lesser extent)... it's left us pretty bare on the perimeter. If we came up short of the FF last year, we'd almost definitely keep Guy, and *probably* Jerome too. That said, I'll trade a title last year for a tough season this year in a heartbeat.

Still think that given the general horribleness of the ACC overall (and CBB in general to a lesser extent) we can still compete for top 4 in the league and an NCAA bid. Unlike previous seasons though, those things are not certainties, and we'll have to compete our butts off to get there.

That's a no-brainer!

[BD80]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1rGqaMkoiyg

"...Sweet Caroline
(Let's Go Pitt)
Good times never seemed so good
(Go Pitt, Go Pitt, Go Pitt)
I've been inclined
(Let's Go Pitt)..."


And in Philadelphia they throw snow balls at Santa.

This is definitely a Pitt thing. PSU may have "borrowed" it because there is a large Pittsburgh contingent at PSU.

[HereBeforeCoachK]

And in Philadelphia they throw snow balls at Santa.

This is definitely a Pitt thing. PSU may have "borrowed" it because there is a large Pittsburgh contingent at PSU.

I've never noticed this at Pitt games (during commercials, etc) - then again, I've rarely noticed full stands at Pitt. What year were some of these from? Anyway, I found myself almost saying "Let's Go Pitt" in the refrain....that's not a half bad thing.....

[devildeac]

Ha! I had no idea it was a Penn State thing.

Lemme get home tonight and I'll link some of the articles 'splaining it. I remember (not totally reliable:o) reading that other pro/college teams have randomly/repeatedly sung it but I first learned about it visiting friends in the Pitt section at WW during the 58-55 (?) game several years ago.

Here's one article from 2010:

"How 'Sweet Caroline' became the Pitt fans' singalong"

https://www.post-gazette.com/sports/Pitt/2010/11/26/How-Sweet-Caroline-became-the-Pitt-fans-singalong/stories/201011260183

Another from 2018:

"Touching me, touching you: The story behind ‘Sweet Caroline’ at Pitt"

https://pittnews.com/article/136067/sports/the-story-behind-sweet-caroline-at-pitt/

I didn't read each one completely but there's probably a good deal of overlap.

[HereBeforeCoachK]

Here's one article from 2010:

"How 'Sweet Caroline' became the Pitt fans' singalong"

https://www.post-gazette.com/sports/Pitt/2010/11/26/How-Sweet-Caroline-became-the-Pitt-fans-singalong/stories/201011260183

HAH...just getting ready to post this story on that: https://pittnews.com/article/136067/sports/the-story-behind-sweet-caroline-at-pitt/

Can we get that guy to come to Duke and Wally Wade, and work his magic....he did it because Pitt had no game day atmosphere....but now they do.

[Ggallagher]

Today on "Around the Horn", they discussed Roy's motivational "Least Gifted Team Ever" speech. I loved it when one of their commentators suggested a different viewpoint about this team not being "gifted".

I don't remember the exact words, but the point was that with FBI interest and NCAA investigations, this current team could not be "gifted" as generously as some of the past teams had been. Apparently they can't recruit the same level of talent if the "gifts" they receive aren't going to be quite so nice. Oh yeah, and they might have to go to class too.

Nice little dig.

[Dr. Rosenrosen]

Funny to hear the game announcers trying to defend Roy’s bus driving adventures.

[DU82]

Lots of sheep fans came dressed as empty seats tonight.

[TKG]

Funny to hear the game announcers trying to defend Roy’s bus driving adventures.


Who might be the announcers assigned to the game, good Dr.?

[Tripping William]

Lots of sheep fans came dressed as empty seats tonight.

To watch two really bad basketball teams. Ouch!

[Tooold]

To watch two really bad basketball teams. Ouch!
It’s an ugly game. Pitt looks terrible.

[Dr. Rosenrosen]

It’s an ugly game. Pitt looks terrible.
How did this team beat FSU?

[TKG]

How did this team beat FSU?

Old expression about even a blind squirrel finds an acorn every now and then...

[dukelifer]

How did this team beat FSU?

UNC is going to play hard now- Roy got his point across. They are limited- but they can play hard. That will win a bunch of games in a mediocre league.

[Ultrarunner]

UNC is going to play hard now- Roy got his point across. They are limited- but they can play hard. That will win a bunch of games in a mediocre league.

I'll grant you your first point, conditionally.
I'll grant your second point.
I am hopeful that you will find going two for three in your analysis is okay and that the fates intervene to ensure that the cheaters lose and lose and lose.

[Tripping William]

ND up 10 on State in Raleigh.

[Dr. Rosenrosen]

OMG, the refs wants the holes to win so badly. Horrendous.

[devildeac]

ND up 10 on State in Raleigh.

Do the NCSU fans have the "Fire Keatts" website fired up yet? :rolleyes:

[devildeac]

OMG, the refs wants the holes to win so badly. Horrendous.

Soooo, what else is new? dean's myth invented that strategy, too :rolleyes:

[Tooold]

OMG, the refs wants the holes to win so badly. Horrendous.

Refs are getting help from Pitt with some unexplainable brain freezes. Pitt is up right now, but trying it’s best to let cheats back in.

[SkyBrickey]

Let’s go Panthers. Close it out!

[arnie]

Let’s go Panthers. Close it out!

Just turned on - so much fun🤗

[Tooold]

Fans heading to exits 🤣

[Tripping William]

Who might be the announcers assigned to the game, good Dr.?

One willing to reference “seven” national championships. Tells me all I need to know, Dave O’Brien.

[peloton]

Down go the Heels.

[DU82]

One willing to reference “seven” national championships. Tells me all I need to know, Wes Durham.

You caught that one too.

[CameronDuke]

Pitt beats Unc 73-65 in chapel hill.

The heels fall to 8-7, 1-3.

Pitt snapped a 22 game road losing streak.

Clemson at unc Saturday. Think it’s been 50-60 years since Clemson won in chapel hill.

[accfanfrom1970]

So happy for Coach Capel. And so happy cheats lose again. What will Roy say now?

[dukelion]

Heels look good!

[Tripping William]

You caught that one too.

Yes. Except I think it was Dave O’Brien, not Durham. Will correct.

[Pghdukie]

Dad Gummit !

[dukelifer]

I'll grant you your first point, conditionally.
I'll grant your second point.
I am hopeful that you will find going two for three in your analysis is okay and that the fates intervene to ensure that the cheaters lose and lose and lose.

Well playing hard gets you so far it seems. Roy may need a therapist.

[HereBeforeCoachK]

One willing to reference “seven” national championships. Tells me all I need to know, Wes Durham.

Tar Heel math

[OldPhiKap]

Pitt beats Unc 73-65 in chapel hill.

The heels fall to 8-7, 1-3.

Pitt snapped a 22 game road losing streak.

Clemson at unc Saturday. Think it’s been 50-60 years since Clemson won in chapel hill.

Weren’t the Heels up by nine at the half?

[CameronDuke]

Weren’t the Heels up by nine at the half?

Yes they were, 37-28.

They lost the 2nd half 45-28.

[wsb3]

Later I look forward to popcorn & Huck's presser..

[BD80]

Later I look forward to popcorn & Huck's presser..

Are there any players left to throw under the bus?

[DU82]

Pitt beats Unc 73-65 in chapel hill.

The heels fall to 8-7, 1-3.

Pitt snapped a 22 game road losing streak.

Clemson at unc Saturday. Think it’s been 50-60 years since Clemson won in chapel hill.

It’s been 2020 years, plus a few BC.

[Bluedog]

Are there any players left to throw under the bus?

He already said last game "this is the least talented group I've ever coached".....ouch.

[devildeac]

Weren’t the Heels up by nine at the half?

I think they also led by 11 at one time early in 2nd half.

Worth re-posting:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1rGqaMkoiyg

[SkyBrickey]

Where are my gifted guys daggumit?

[devildeac]

Later I look forward to popcorn & Huck's presser..

Summary:

ol roy: "yep, least talented team I've ever had here."

players: "Coach is always right."

[devildeac]

Are there any players left to throw under the bus?

Maybe the walk-ons he left on the court from the f$u loss several years ago...

[BD80]

So happy for Coach Capel. And so happy cheats lose again. What will Roy say now?


When ol' roy finally explodes, perhaps unc will consider Capel as a replacement.

He can win in the Dean Dome with a bad team.

[CameronDuke]

Unc At 8-7, 1-3 is now 70 on Kenpom.

[ChillinDuke]

Heels are reeling. Hard to envision them making the Tourney at this point. This is the easiest part of their schedule. Losing to GT and now Pitt at home. Those are almost certainly not close to Tourney teams. Add Wofford at home. The only Tourney caliber win they have is Oregon on a neutral floor. Yale is a decent team but I'm not sure that win will open any eyes, plus it was a tight game at home.

Next Clemson at home, then this same Pitt team and Va Tech both on the road. Feels like UNC needs to win all 3 of those to have any breathing room while waiting for Anthony to return.

Looking very dire. Right, Roy?

- Chillin

[Tripping William]

Yes they were, 37-28.

They lost the 2nd half 45-28.

Largest halftime lead blown in the Dean’s Myth Center since 1997.

[devildeac]

Largest halftime lead blown in the Dean’s Myth Center since 1997.

A record setting year? (lol)

[OldPhiKap]

10074

[-jk]

For those who vote in the SBN fanpulse, here's unc's latest:

10075

-jk

[OldPhiKap]

For those who vote in the SBN fanpulse, here's unc's latest:

10075

-jk

You can bet that Nate Silver will be all over this tomorrow morning . . . .

[ncexnyc]

I can't believe all the media people rushing to Roy's defense in regards to his comment. Sure this is his least talented team, but as a leader you never say something like that. After the season fine, but never, ever during the season.

This is the team he recruited and that's on him. He got over big time when he landed Cam Johnson thanks to TPTB, but lightning isn't going to strike twice with the two transfers he brought in this year.

I'd also like to say that Cole Anthony, while a very talented player isn't as great as some people would have you believe. They are placing a lot of the Cheats current woes on him being out, but if you look at his last few games prior to the injury he wasn't all that great.

[BD80]

I can't believe all the media people rushing to Roy's defense in regards to his comment. Sure this is his least talented team, but as a leader you never say something like that. ...

I'd also like to say that Cole Anthony, while a very talented player isn't as great as some people would have you believe. They are placing a lot of the Cheats current woes on him being out, but if you look at his last few games prior to the injury he wasn't all that great.

What effect do ol' roy's comments have on Anthony's interest in returning? Come back and join your teammates under the bus?

If his coach is to be believed, this isn't a talented team, so there is no use in returning.

All the pressure would be on Anthony to turn the team around.

[Tooold]

In Roy’s post game presser, he started by saying “wish I had something witty to say”. Followed that by blaming all his players...”they didn’t do what he told them to do” and pointing out which specific players shot poorly. Apparently he called plays but they ran the wrong play, and “that’s on the coach”. So many buses under which to throw the players.

[Troublemaker]

Heels are reeling. Hard to envision them making the Tourney at this point. This is the easiest part of their schedule. Losing to GT and now Pitt at home. Those are almost certainly not close to Tourney teams. Add Wofford at home. The only Tourney caliber win they have is Oregon on a neutral floor. Yale is a decent team but I'm not sure that win will open any eyes, plus it was a tight game at home.

Yeah, this is why when some said that UNC was lucky their schedule was so easy while Anthony was out, I made an argument that it was a curse rather than a blessing. You kind of want your best player around so you can put the easy ones in the win column; otherwise some easy ones become losses.

[Hingeknocker]

Well if Pitt can get their first ever win in Chapel Hill this week, I see no reason why Clemson can't pull off the same trick!

[arnie]

In Roy’s post game presser, he started by saying “wish I had something witty to say”. Followed that by blaming all his players...”they didn’t do what he told them to do” and pointing out which specific players shot poorly. Apparently he called plays but they ran the wrong play, and “that’s on the coach”. So many buses under which to throw the players.

Triangle press upset that national press is critical of ole Roy remarks. Local clowns insisting Roy just telling the truth. Well, my wife has gained weight since we got married decades ago but I don’t remind her every day😀.

[OldPhiKap]

In Roy’s post game presser, he started by saying “wish I had something witty to say”. Followed that by blaming all his players...”they didn’t do what he told them to do” and pointing out which specific players shot poorly. Apparently he called plays but they ran the wrong play, and “that’s on the coach”. So many buses under which to throw the players.

I thought his press conference was a pretty sober assessment of where the Heels are right now. Roy seems beat down.

[MChambers]

Well if Pitt can get their first ever win in Chapel Hill this week, I see no reason why Clemson can't pull off the same trick!

It's called a curse for a reason. Clemson has had teams that were better than UNCheat several times in the past, and somehow UNC always wins. I'm hopeful, but there are a lot of reasons why Clemson could lose.

[Tooold]

I thought his press conference was a pretty sober assessment of where the Heels are right now. Roy seems beat down.
Agree. He seemed very low. I don’t think he even had the energy to muster up a “daggum-it”.

[Saratoga2]

In Roy’s post game presser, he started by saying “wish I had something witty to say”. Followed that by blaming all his players...”they didn’t do what he told them to do” and pointing out which specific players shot poorly. Apparently he called plays but they ran the wrong play, and “that’s on the coach”. So many buses under which to throw the players.

Roy recruited the players and developed them to date. He also calls for the style of play. Blaming the players is foolishness.

[Acymetric]

Triangle press upset that national press is critical of ole Roy remarks. Local clowns insisting Roy just telling the truth. Well, my wife has gained weight since we got married decades ago but I don’t remind her every day😀.

The national semi-outrage over the remarks is over the top. The local full-on defense of the remarks is also over the top. It wasn't a terribly good look, but it's not the worst thing a coach has ever said, not even the worst thing Roy has ever said. If Nick Saban said something like that after a bad performance the media would be looking to build a monument to his brilliant coaching.

[Indoor66]

Ole Roy needs to put a little love in his heart (https://www.youtube.com/watch?reload=9&v=CMj7UcjPZ0U).

[AGDukesky]

Can someone please post that video UNC made of Farrell’s “Happy”?

[roywhite]

I thought his press conference was a pretty sober assessment of where the Heels are right now. Roy seems beat down.

Sounds like he's moving along the stages of grief for his team this season

Denial
Anger
Bargaining
Depression
Acceptance

[wsb3]

Triangle press upset that national press is critical of ole Roy remarks. Local clowns insisting Roy just telling the truth. Well, my wife has gained weight since we got married decades ago but I don’t remind her every day😀.


Must spread comments around... As a married man I particularly enjoyed this comment. Thank you for the chuckle.

[BD80]

Triangle press upset that national press is critical of ole Roy remarks. Local clowns insisting Roy just telling the truth. Well, my wife has gained weight since we got married decades ago but I don’t remind her every day😀.


Must spread comments around... As a married man I particularly enjoyed this comment. Thank you for the chuckle.

Reminds me of the meme: "sexual abstinence is a choice."


Mentioning weight gain is choosing abstinence.

[TruBlu]

Triangle press upset that national press is critical of ole Roy remarks. Local clowns insisting Roy just telling the truth. Well, my wife has gained weight since we got married decades ago but I don’t remind her every day😀.


Must spread comments around... As a married man I particularly enjoyed this comment. Thank you for the chuckle.

I also enjoyed this comment, but feel compelled to point out that even reminding her once can have devastating results for a long, long time. I still suffer occasionally from a comment I made years ago when one of my wife's friends called and asked if the wife was around. My reply that "yes, and getting rounder everyday" got back to her. She found no humor in it at all.

[wsb3]

My apologies if this has been previously posted. Good for him.

https://www.post-gazette.com/sports/Pitt/2020/01/08/jeff-capel-contract-extension-pitt-basketball/stories/202001080088

[OldPhiKap]

Agree. He seemed very low. I don’t think he even had the energy to muster up a “daggum-it”.

Nice, this made me chuckle.


Roy recruited the players and developed them to date. He also calls for the style of play. Blaming the players is foolishness.

Devil's advocate -- Roy says that he called several plays, and they ran the wrong ones. He also said they didn't want to switch up top and the players did anyway. That is likely on the players and not the coach. (Whether he called a time-out to correct it or not I do not know, and if he failed to do that then Roy shares some blame for the repetition of the problem).

Similarly, if people are in shooting slumps and miss open shots that's not on the coach either. One could argue about whether calling out the player for it helps or hurts (depends on the player I guess), but pointing it out is an honest statement it seems to me.

I am far from a Roy supporter as y'all know. But sometimes the players are just not top ACC-talent level players. Through a series of fortunate events and an unfortunate injury that's what he is stuck with right now. I could argue that he should have recruited better, but that doesn't affect an honest assessment of what he has now or what happened last night. His players are getting outplayed by about half of the teams they have faced so far.

Oh, and Roy is a cheating bastard for whom I feel no pity. Go Clemson. {Whew, that felt better}

[ChillinDuke]

The national semi-outrage over the remarks is over the top. The local full-on defense of the remarks is also over the top. It wasn't a terribly good look, but it's not the worst thing a coach has ever said, not even the worst thing Roy has ever said. If Nick Saban said something like that after a bad performance the media would be looking to build a monument to his brilliant coaching.

That's probably fair. But landing in between the two, my view is simple. You just don't say that publicly. Period.

I won't rehash all the reasons why people land on either side of my line, some probably far to one side. But I think the simple answer is don't say it. And if you do, which again I think you shouldn't, don't say it on a nationally syndicated radio show.

- Chillin

[Hingeknocker]

It's called a curse for a reason. Clemson has had teams that were better than UNCheat several times in the past, and somehow UNC always wins. I'm hopeful, but there are a lot of reasons why Clemson could lose.

I was mainly joking, since Pitt only needed 8 tries to notch their first win in Chapel Hill. Clemson is on, what, attempt number 52?

Also, curses aren't real. Go Tigers.

[Steven43]

Oh, and Roy is a cheating bastard for whom I feel no pity. Go Clemson. {Whew, that felt better}

Forgive me if I am completely misreading things, but I get the distinct impression you are not a fan of Roy Williams.

[OldPhiKap]

Forgive me if I am completely misreading things, but I get the distinct impression you are not a fan of Roy Williams.

Drat, I was hoping to be subtle . . . . ;-)


(BTW, I do my emoji's by hand, old-school style. The way Al Gore intended when he invented the internet in the first place).

[Billy Dat]

Do the NCSU fans have the "Fire Keatts" website fired up yet? :rolleyes:

Due to traveling-for-work circumstances, I wound up watching the second half of this one on a rebroadcast and was impressed by the Pack's comeback. I have not watched either team this year.

Markell Johnson is very tough. He hasn't made an impression on me prior to this year, but I feel like he plays larger than his 6'1" listed height, he is crafty as heck with the ball and was finishing in all kinds of creative ways. Also, the kid DJ Funderburk was like a man possessed, very high motor for a 6'10" and he's thick. I guess he doesn't typically start, right? He was really good last night.

As for ND, if Mooney is the man, they did a really bad job of getting him the ball when the game was in the balance, and he did a bad job of commanding it. I feel like Gibbs should be better at this point. I didn't realize Rex Pflueger was hurt again - that's kid has had some really tough breaks on and off the court.

As a snapshot of these two currently-middle-class-citizens of ACC men's hoops, I fear the Pack'a athleticism and dynamism more than ND's steady Hoosiers blueprint.

[ChrisP]

I was mainly joking, since Pitt only needed 8 tries to notch their first win in Chapel Hill. Clemson is on, what, attempt number 52?

Also, curses aren't real. Go Tigers.

Hmmm...I don't know about that last part. How many years did the Red Sox go without a WS title after trading away The Bambino? :)

If it were pretty much any other ACC School (well...other than State, maybe), I might have a little optimism, but I have zero faith in Clemson's ability to win at the Myth Center. That said - GO TIGERS!!!

[Ultrarunner]

Roy recruited the players Greyhound bus mechanics and developed them to date. He also calls for the style of play. Blaming the players Greyhound bus mechanics is foolishness.

Adjusted, in the interest of clarity and honesty.

[Dr. Rosenrosen]

Hmmm...I don't know about that last part. How many years did the Red Sox go without a WS title after trading away The Bambino? :)

If it were pretty much any other ACC School (well...other than State, maybe), I might have a little optimism, but I have zero faith in Clemson's ability to win at the Myth Center. That said - GO TIGERS!!!
They couldn’t even do it in 2001-02 during the cheats’ spectacular 8-20 season.

[Hingeknocker]

They couldn’t even do it in 2001-02 during the cheats’ spectacular 8-20 season.

Clemson picked a bad year to only be #132 in KenPom the year that UNC slid all the way to #137. Obviously those teams weren't ranked in those spots when they played, but those numbers would equate to UNC being a slight favorite at home that year.

Fingers crossed this is finally the year!

[Steven43]

Clemson picked a bad year to only be #132 in KenPom the year that UNC slid all the way to #137. Obviously those teams weren't ranked in those spots when they played, but those numbers would equate to UNC being a slight favorite at home that year.

Fingers crossed this is finally the year!

So.....is pretty much everyone around here suddenly a Clemson fan or what? They are still in the ACC the last time I checked. And yes, Clemson hates UNC, but they hate Duke, too.

[Stray Gator]

So...is pretty much everyone around here suddenly a Clemson fan or what? They are still in the ACC the last time I checked. And yes, Clemson hates UNC, but they hate Duke, too.

Nothing sudden about it -- many members of the DBR community have been pulling for Clemson to win at Chapel Hill and end the streak for as long as this forum has been open. Part of that may be attributable to a former poster known as Klemnop, who promised to streak down Franklin Street if and when Clemson could finally win in Chapel Hill; and part of it may just be a natural inclination to cheer for the underdog. But undoubtedly, some of it is the natural instinct of Duke fans to prefer that UNC lose to whatever opponent they may be playing.

So, are you now suddenly a UNC fan? :rolleyes:

[BD80]

So....is pretty much everyone around here suddenly a Clemson fan or what? They are still in the ACC the last time I checked. And yes, Clemson hates UNC, but they hate Duke, too.

My rooting interests are ALWAYS:

1) Duke.

…
…
…

2) Whoever is playing Carolina,

…
…
…

3)any other game.


#2 has moved right next to #1 this Saturday, maybe even pulling into a tie.


My fantasy scenario: Clemson wins and ol' roy literally loses his mind (it leaves the presser minutes before roy). roy takes a leave of absence which, after the season ending loss in the Tuesday game of the ACC tournament, becomes retirement.

MJ comes riding in on a white horse to save the program, reluctantly accepting the roles of MBB Head Coach and AD. unc does not beat Clemson in the next 60 years.

[Steven43]

So, are you now suddenly a UNC fan? :rolleyes:

Why would you ask that? I haven’t said I want UNC to beat Clemson. But I also haven’t expressed strong sentiment towards wanting Clemson to beat UNC — like so many on DBR have been doing.

[BandAlum83]

My rooting interests are ALWAYS:

1) Duke.

…
…
…

2) Whoever is playing Carolina,

…
…
…

3)any other game.


#2 has moved right next to #1 this Saturday, maybe even pulling into a tie.


My fantasy scenario: Clemson wins and ol' roy literally loses his mind (it leaves the presser minutes before roy). roy takes a leave of absence which, after the season ending loss in the Tuesday game of the ACC tournament, becomes retirement.

MJ comes riding in on a white horse to save the program, reluctantly accepting the roles of MBB Head Coach and AD. unc does not beat Clemson in the next 60 years.

That would forever get Roy stuck in a tie with Deano in the wins column?

[CameronBornAndBred]

My fantasy scenario: Clemson wins and ol' roy literally loses his mind (it leaves the presser minutes before roy). roy takes a leave of absence which, after the season ending loss in the Tuesday game of the ACC tournament, becomes retirement.

MJ comes riding in on a white horse to save the program, reluctantly accepting the roles of MBB Head Coach and AD. unc does not beat Clemson in the next 60 years.
Must spread sporks...


Why would you ask that? I haven’t said I want UNC to beat Clemson. But I also haven’t expressed strong sentiment towards wanting Clemson to beat UNC — like so many on DBR have been doing.
I've ALWAYS got a strong sentiment that Clemson beat UNC. They (or any other team) could be playing checkers, and I'd strongly want them to win.

[Hingeknocker]

Why would you ask that? I haven’t said I want UNC to beat Clemson. But I also haven’t expressed strong sentiment towards wanting Clemson to beat UNC — like so many on DBR have been doing.

I may not always express it on DBR, but I can assure you that I have strong sentiment for Carolina to lose literally every game they play. This streak that dumbfounded me as a student is now 16 years older, and it deserves to end. Why not this year?

[BandAlum83]

Why would you ask that? I haven’t said I want UNC to beat Clemson. But I also haven’t expressed strong sentiment towards wanting Clemson to beat UNC — like so many on DBR have been doing.

The opposite of love isn't hate. It's indifference.

I totally don't care what UNC does, win or lose. They are a non-entity to me. I've already spent more time than needed with my last 2 replies.

[devilsadvocate85]

Due to traveling-for-work circumstances, I wound up watching the second half of this one on a rebroadcast and was impressed by the Pack's comeback. I have not watched either team this year.

Markell Johnson is very tough. He hasn't made an impression on me prior to this year, but I feel like he plays larger than his 6'1" listed height, he is crafty as heck with the ball and was finishing in all kinds of creative ways. Also, the kid DJ Funderburk was like a man possessed, very high motor for a 6'10" and he's thick. I guess he doesn't typically start, right? He was really good last night.

As for ND, if Mooney is the man, they did a really bad job of getting him the ball when the game was in the balance, and he did a bad job of commanding it. I feel like Gibbs should be better at this point. I didn't realize Rex Pflueger was hurt again - that's kid has had some really tough breaks on and off the court.

As a snapshot of these two currently-middle-class-citizens of ACC men's hoops, I fear the Pack'a athleticism and dynamism more than ND's steady Hoosiers blueprint.

Just an observation related to the bold section, I guess the TV you were watching put on the requisite 10 or even more pounds. Funderburke is listed at 6-10 / 225, basically the same weight as Jack White (6-7) and 12 pounds less than Javin DeLaurier (6-10), neither of whom is particularly "thick".

[MChambers]

My rooting interests are ALWAYS:

1) Duke.

…
…
…

2) Whoever is playing Carolina,

…
…
…

3)any other game.


#2 has moved right next to #1 this Saturday, maybe even pulling into a tie.


My fantasy scenario: Clemson wins and ol' roy literally loses his mind (it leaves the presser minutes before roy). roy takes a leave of absence which, after the season ending loss in the Tuesday game of the ACC tournament, becomes retirement.

MJ comes riding in on a white horse to save the program, reluctantly accepting the roles of MBB Head Coach and AD. unc does not beat Clemson in the next 60 years.

Does Roy then become a fulltime bus driver?

[Steven43]

I could be way off base about this, but I would think most Clemson fans would consider it condescending that many Duke fans are pulling so hard for them to beat UNC — like we’re feeling sorry for them (Clemson) or something and don’t consider them (Clemson) to be a threat to us as Duke fans. It seems patronizing to me.

[Troublemaker]

I could be way off base about this, but I would think most Clemson fans would consider it condescending that many Duke fans are pulling so hard for them to beat UNC — like we’re feeling sorry for them (Clemson) or something and don’t consider them (Clemson) to be a threat to us as Duke fans. It seems patronizing to me.

Nah, we just want UNC to eat poop, and the bigger the poop the better. Losing their precious streak would be a sumo-sized turd in UNC's bowl. You're just overthinking it.

As for Clemson fans, they don't even know there's a game on Saturday. They're thinking about whether Coach Venables can use exotic looks to confuse Burrow and hide Clemson's safeties. They couldn't care less about what Duke fans think about some game that's not happening on Saturday.

[Steven43]

Nah, we just want UNC to eat poop, and the bigger the poop the better. Losing their precious streak would be a sumo-sized turd in UNC's bowl. You're just overthinking it.

As for Clemson fans, they don't even know there's a game on Saturday. They're thinking about whether Coach Venables can use exotic looks to confuse Burrow and hide Clemson's safeties. They couldn't care less about what Duke fans think about some game that's not happening on Saturday.

Maybe I am overthinking it, who knows? That's one opinion. But I know for a fact that not all Duke fans want UNC to lose whenever they are not playing Duke. I'm one of those Duke fans. I want UNC to be really strong and highly-ranked going into every Duke game so that when we (Duke) beat them it actually feels like we have accomplished something noteworthy, something of which we can be really proud. Beating a terrible UNC team does not make me feel like Duke has accomplished anything great.

There is no better feeling in the world than beating a strong UNC team, especially because it is so crushing for UNC fans when that happens. I want them (UNC fans) to feel devastated. When their team is mediocre or worse and they lose to Duke they don't feel that bad about it because they expected it. That's boring. I want UNC fans to cry because it hurts so much.

[MChambers]

Maybe I am overthinking it, who knows? That's one opinion. But I know for a fact that not all Duke fans want UNC to lose whenever they are not playing Duke. I'm one of those Duke fans. I want UNC to be really strong and highly-ranked going into every Duke game so that when we (Duke) beat them it actually feels like we have accomplished something noteworthy, something of which we can be really proud. Beating a terrible UNC team does not make me feel like Duke has accomplished anything great.

There is no better feeling in the world than beating a strong UNC team, especially because it is so crushing for UNC fans when that happens. I want them (UNC fans) to feel devastated. When their team is mediocre or worse and they lose to Duke they don't feel that bad about it because they expected it. That's boring. I want UNC fans to cry because it hurts so much.

I used to feel that way, back in the 20th Century. But once we learned about UNC's cheating, I changed. I want them to lose every game. Every game. By as many points as possible.

[jimsumner]

Maybe I am overthinking it, who knows? That's one opinion. But I know for a fact that not all Duke fans want UNC to lose whenever they are not playing Duke. I'm one of those Duke fans. I want UNC to be really strong and highly-ranked going into every Duke game so that when we (Duke) beat them it actually feels like we have accomplished something noteworthy, something of which we can be really proud. Beating a terrible UNC team does not make me feel like Duke has accomplished anything great.

There is no better feeling in the world than beating a strong UNC team, especially because it is so crushing for UNC fans when that happens. I want them (UNC fans) to feel devastated. When their team is mediocre or worse and they lose to Duke they don't feel that bad about it because they expected it. That's boring. I want UNC fans to cry because it hurts so much.

There's lots of merit to this viewpoint. One of the reasons the Duke-Carolina rivalry has national relevance is the fact that both teams are usually pretty good-to-elite. Anyone outside of North Carolina or the respective fan bases really care all that much who wins the Duke-Carolina football game?

[arnie]

Maybe I am overthinking it, who knows? That's one opinion. But I know for a fact that not all Duke fans want UNC to lose whenever they are not playing Duke. I'm one of those Duke fans. I want UNC to be really strong and highly-ranked going into every Duke game so that when we (Duke) beat them it actually feels like we have accomplished something noteworthy, something of which we can be really proud. Beating a terrible UNC team does not make me feel like Duke has accomplished anything great.

There is no better feeling in the world than beating a strong UNC team, especially because it is so crushing for UNC fans when that happens. I want them (UNC fans) to feel devastated. When their team is mediocre or worse and they lose to Duke they don't feel that bad about it because they expected it. That's boring. I want UNC fans to cry because it hurts so much.

Maybe not all, but about 99.9% Duke fans cheer for Cheat losses. I disagree 100% with your premise above and would like to see the Cheat program move to SEC or abolished.

[Hingeknocker]

Maybe I am overthinking it, who knows? That's one opinion. But I know for a fact that not all Duke fans want UNC to lose whenever they are not playing Duke. I'm one of those Duke fans. I want UNC to be really strong and highly-ranked going into every Duke game so that when we (Duke) beat them it actually feels like we have accomplished something noteworthy, something of which we can be really proud. Beating a terrible UNC team does not make me feel like Duke has accomplished anything great.

There is no better feeling in the world than beating a strong UNC team, especially because it is so crushing for UNC fans when that happens. I want them (UNC fans) to feel devastated. When their team is mediocre or worse and they lose to Duke they don't feel that bad about it because they expected it. That's boring. I want UNC fans to cry because it hurts so much.

I do understand this perspective, but as a counter-point for the "I want UNC to lose every single game" position: If UNC is at their peak powers AND we beat them, yes it's immensely satisfying, but that also means that they're likely to get a top NCAA seed, go on a long tournament run, etc. I would much rather trade slightly less crushing misery on the night they get beaten by us in exchange for a season-long, existentially threatening slog that results in them missing one (or more!) of the post-season tournaments.

[OldPhiKap]

I have seen several games at Littlejohn, and the Clemson fans could not have been nicer. A terrifically intense atmosphere when Duke comes to town.

Clemson is a gorgeous campus, especially in the fall.

[Steven43]

Maybe not all, but about 99.9% Duke fans cheer for Cheat losses.

You can’t possibly speak for 99.9% of Duke fans. You’re just guessing like everybody else.

[HereBeforeCoachK]

Maybe not all, but about 99.9% Duke fans cheer for Cheat losses. I disagree 100% with your premise above and would like to see the Cheat program move to SEC or abolished.

I"m pretty sure that Coach K is in your one tenth of one percent with Steven......certainly he is with regards to the SEC or abolishment.....neither gonna happen anytime soon. And if it does, it will be the result of Duke, Wake, BC, etc having to drop big time FB due to demographically related economic realities.....

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

My rooting interests are ALWAYS:

1) Duke.

…
…
…

2) Whoever is playing Carolina,

…
…
…

3)any other game.


#2 has moved right next to #1 this Saturday, maybe even pulling into a tie.


My fantasy scenario: Clemson wins and ol' roy literally loses his mind (it leaves the presser minutes before roy). roy takes a leave of absence which, after the season ending loss in the Tuesday game of the ACC tournament, becomes retirement.

MJ comes riding in on a white horse to save the program, reluctantly accepting the roles of MBB Head Coach and AD. unc does not beat Clemson in the next 60 years.

How would the Hornets survive without MJ?

[arnie]

I"m pretty sure that Coach K is in your one tenth of one percent with Steven...certainly he is with regards to the SEC or abolishment....neither gonna happen anytime soon. And if it does, it will be the result of Duke, Wake, BC, etc having to drop big time FB due to demographically related economic realities....

I’m in the minority, but OK with dropping big time football. In fact, I thought we’d already done that. Big East affiliation fine with me.

[wsb3]

Maybe not all, but about 99.9% Duke fans cheer for Cheat losses. I disagree 100% with your premise above and would like to see the Cheat program move to SEC or abolished.

Arnie, Count me in the 99.9%. I have never pulled for them to win any basketball game & I never will. I don't want them to be good. I wish they sucked every year and I would enjoy beating them if they were 0-28 each season for the next 50 years.

[Troublemaker]

Maybe I am overthinking it, who knows? That's one opinion. But I know for a fact that not all Duke fans want UNC to lose whenever they are not playing Duke. I'm one of those Duke fans. I want UNC to be really strong and highly-ranked going into every Duke game so that when we (Duke) beat them it actually feels like we have accomplished something noteworthy, something of which we can be really proud. Beating a terrible UNC team does not make me feel like Duke has accomplished anything great.

There is no better feeling in the world than beating a strong UNC team, especially because it is so crushing for UNC fans when that happens. I want them (UNC fans) to feel devastated. When their team is mediocre or worse and they lose to Duke they don't feel that bad about it because they expected it. That's boring. I want UNC fans to cry because it hurts so much.

Unlike Jim, I don't see much merit to this viewpoint. (I thoroughly enjoyed 82-50, for example, and I think UNC fans will still hate losing to Duke this season). But it's also irrelevant. It's not like beating Clemson is going to make UNC a really strong team this season. If you want UNC fans to be crushed, root for them to lose this precious streak of theirs against Clemson.

[BlueDevil2K]

https://www.fanatics.com/duke-blue-devils-my-favorite-team-t-shirt-duke-blue/p-34676965376795+z-9018-641288805

[Stray Gator]

Why would you ask that? I haven’t said I want UNC to beat Clemson. But I also haven’t expressed strong sentiment towards wanting Clemson to beat UNC — like so many on DBR have been doing.

Evidently, you missed the sarcasm emoji at the end of my question. So let me try to answer your original question with an explanation that might be more comprehensible.

The fact that a number of posters here have expressed a desire for Clemson to win the Tigers' upcoming game at UNC does not support the underlying assumption of your question asking why "pretty much everyone around here [is] suddenly a Clemson fan." Why do you assume that we must be "Clemson fans" to hope that Clemson wins a game against our rival team and breaks a losing streak that stretches back over half a century?

Don't you recognize that it's entirely possible, and even reasonable, when there is an upcoming game between two teams, that a person who is not a "fan" of either team might still want one of those teams to beat the other? Maybe they tend to pull for the underdog as a matter of course. Or maybe they foresee a benefit to their favorite team based on the outcome of the game between the two other teams -- for example, improving their team's ranking or conference standing or tournament seeding. Or maybe they just find it more fun to watch the game if they have a "rooting interest," so they pick one team or the other for whatever reason. Or maybe they dislike one of the teams based on an historic rivalry, or a prior loss on the court or in a recruiting battle. Unless you define "fan" very loosely, none of those circumstances would qualify that person's temporary support as the equivalent of being a fan of the team they want to win that isolated game.

Nor, for that matter, do I believe there is any basis for your presumption that "Clemson hates UNC, but they hate Duke, too." How do you know what Clemson fans think and feel? If they hate both UNC and Duke, as you have declared, do you think that those who cheer for one over the other when UNC plays Duke are suddenly "fans" of a team that they hate?

If you choose not to support one side or the other when Clemson plays UNC on Saturday, that's fine for you. But for you to suggest that there's something wrong or unseemly or insulting about others here expressing support for Clemson in that game is, in my opinion, off base.

[ChrisP]

I used to feel that way, back in the 20th Century. But once we learned about UNC's cheating, I changed. I want them to lose every game. Every game. By as many points as possible.

This. Like...times...INFINITY!

[ChillinDuke]

Nah, we just want UNC to eat poop, and the bigger the poop the better. Losing their precious streak would be a sumo-sized turd in UNC's bowl. You're just overthinking it.

As for Clemson fans, they don't even know there's a game on Saturday. They're thinking about whether Coach Venables can use exotic looks to confuse Burrow and hide Clemson's safeties. They couldn't care less about what Duke fans think about some game that's not happening on Saturday.

Yeah, eat poop. Definitely.

- Chillin

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Since we are all chiming in, my ideal UNC season would involve them losing only four games.

Now that we've far surpassed that possibility, I'll be rooting against them a few times a week.

[Steven43]

Evidently, you missed the sarcasm emoji at the end of my question. So let me try to answer your original question with an explanation that might be more comprehensible.

The fact that a number of posters here have expressed a desire for Clemson to win the Tigers' upcoming game at UNC does not support the underlying assumption of your question asking why "pretty much everyone around here [is] suddenly a Clemson fan." Why do you assume that we must be "Clemson fans" to hope that Clemson wins a game against our rival team and breaks a losing streak that stretches back over half a century?

Don't you recognize that it's entirely possible, and even reasonable, when there is an upcoming game between two teams, that a person who is not a "fan" of either team might still want one of those teams to beat the other? Maybe they tend to pull for the underdog as a matter of course. Or maybe they foresee a benefit to their favorite team based on the outcome of the game between the two other teams -- for example, improving their team's ranking or conference standing or tournament seeding. Or maybe they just find it more fun to watch the game if they have a "rooting interest," so they pick one team or the other for whatever reason. Or maybe they dislike one of the teams based on an historic rivalry, or a prior loss on the court or in a recruiting battle. Unless you define "fan" very loosely, none of those circumstances would qualify that person's temporary support as the equivalent of being a fan of the team they want to win that isolated game.

Nor, for that matter, do I believe there is any basis for your presumption that "Clemson hates UNC, but they hate Duke, too." How do you know what Clemson fans think and feel? If they hate both UNC and Duke, as you have declared, do you think that those who cheer for one over the other when UNC plays Duke are suddenly "fans" of a team that they hate?

If you choose not to support one side or the other when Clemson plays UNC on Saturday, that's fine for you. But for you to suggest that there's something wrong or unseemly or insulting about others here expressing support for Clemson in that game is, in my opinion, off base.
Methinks thou doth protest too much, sir. WAY too much.

[Steven43]

Unlike Jim, I don't see much merit to this viewpoint. (I thoroughly enjoyed 82-50, for example, and I think UNC fans will still hate losing to Duke this season). But it's also irrelevant. It's not like beating Clemson is going to make UNC a really strong team this season. If you want UNC fans to be crushed, root for them to lose this precious streak of theirs against Clemson.
I just don’t understand the “I want UNC to lose every game, totally suck, and basically be the worst basketball program in the entire nation” attitude. If that were reality there would be no rivalry and it would be as boring as boring could be.

ESPN would not highlight its Duke v UNC matchups — for basically an entire week, no less — twice each and every season. In fact, they wouldn’t show the games AT ALL. By UNC losing stature and notoriety, Duke would lose as well. Duke gains tremendously by UNC being great and being a worthy and dangerous rival.

Basically, I think you guys are nuts. Okay, I’m just joking about that last comment. Sort of. 😉

[MChambers]

I just don’t understand the “I want UNC to lose every game, totally suck, and basically be the worst basketball program in the entire nation” attitude. If that were reality there would be no rivalry and it would be as boring as boring could be.

ESPN would not highlight its Duke v UNC matchups — for basically an entire week, no less — twice each and every season. In fact, they wouldn’t show the games AT ALL. By UNC losing stature and notoriety, Duke would lose as well. Duke gains tremendously by UNC being great and being a worthy and dangerous rival.

Basically, I think you guys are nuts. Okay, I’m just joking about that last comment. Sort of. 😉

The primary problem with your argument is that UNC isn’t great or a worthy rival, because it cheated for 20 years, wasn’t punished, and never admitted wrongdoing. End of story.

For me, because of that cheating, UNC is just another dirty program, like Tarkanian’s UNLV. They should lose every game.

[MartyClark]

The primary problem with your argument is that UNC isn’t great or a worthy rival, because it cheated for 20 years, wasn’t punished, and never admitted wrongdoing. End of story.

For me, because of that cheating, UNC is just another dirty program, like Tarkanian’s UNLV. They should lose every game.

I agree with every thing McChambers said.

With regard to Carolina, they insist on calling Duke "I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.". They say terrible things about Coach K and Duke players. They call Chris Collins "Chrissie". They nsist that Duke pays players. They claim that Coach K faked a back injury, notwithstanding actual surgery, to avoid a losing season. They claim that Rasheed S. was a rapist who was enabled by K and the Duke program. They have alleged that several Duke players were gay, even if true. so what?

Why should we give Carolina the benefit of the doubt on anything? Why shouldn't we delight in every Carolina loss? I do.

I have no hesitation in hoping that Clemson beats Duke. I have no qualms about hoping that North Carolina loses every game.

[MartyClark]

Absolutely do not understand the "wanker" editing of my post. Everything I said was proper, relevant, and correct/

[OldPhiKap]

Absolutely do not understand the "wanker" editing of my post. Everything I said was proper, relevant, and correct/

If you quoted an alternate spelling of Duke used on IC, I think the filter snags that.

[PackMan97]

I just don’t understand the “I want UNC to lose every game, totally suck, and basically be the worst basketball program in the entire nation” attitude. If that were reality there would be no rivalry and it would be as boring as boring could be.


Put the brakes on here Steven43! Who wants UNC to have a basketball program at all? Disband the entire rotten university!

[accfanfrom1970]

ESPN would not highlight its Duke v UNC matchups — for basically an entire week, no less — twice each and every season. In fact, they wouldn’t show the games AT ALL. By UNC losing stature and notoriety, Duke would lose as well. Duke gains tremendously by UNC being great and being a worthy and dangerous rival.



Thing is they are not worthy, of anything. Certainly not respect. If for some reason uncheats suddenly went away, death penalty. Would Duke still not be Duke?. New rivalries would emerge. I wouldn’t miss them one bit, and I would still root and cheer for the Devils against everyone they faced. GTHCGTH and more, lose every game and go away.

[Steven43]

There seems to be a higher level of sanctimonious holier-than-thouness on DBR today than is usual. I know it’s fun to pat oneself on the back for feeling morally superior — heck I do it, too — but this is reaching previously unseen levels.

Maybe we could take it down just a notch guys. This is why people hate Duke.

[CameronBornAndBred]

The primary problem with your argument is that UNC isn’t great or a worthy rival, because it cheated for 20 years, wasn’t punished, and never admitted wrongdoing. End of story.

For me, because of that cheating, UNC is just another dirty program, like Tarkanian’s UNLV. They should lose every game.
I've been happy at every UNC loss long before they got exposed for their cheating ways.
;)

[accfanfrom1970]

Maybe we could take it down just a notch guys. This is why people hate Duke.

People will always hate Duke as long as we’re on top. But I became a fan when Neal McGeachy was coach. Look it up, it was bad. But I loved BOG and everything about Cameron. So I will never take it down a notch, they cheated and showed no remorse. Roy can throw his teams under the bus and I will revel in it, and celebrate every Duke win, and every cheats loss.

[Steven43]

They cheated and showed no remorse. Roy can throw his teams under the bus and I will revel in it, and celebrate every Duke win, and every cheats loss.

Hurray! You really went out on a limb. A comment like this on DBR is like throwing raw meat to a starving lion. Congrats.

I mean, honestly, I hear you, bro. But it’s just gotten really really tired. How many times can we hear the same thing before it loses it’s potency? Yeah I know “NEVER FORGET!” and all that.

[OldPhiKap]

There seems to be a higher level of sanctimonious holier-than-thouness on DBR today than is usual. I know it’s fun to pat oneself on the back for feeling morally superior — heck I do it, too — but this is reaching previously unseen levels.

Maybe we could take it down just a notch guys. This is why people hate Duke.

People hate Duke because Duke fans dislike UNC and call out UNC’s two-decades of systematic cheating?

[devildeac]

I agree with every thing McChambers said.

With regard to Carolina, they insist on calling Duke "I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.". They say terrible things about Coach K and Duke players. They call Chris Collins "Chrissie". They nsist that Duke pays players. They claim that Coach K faked a back injury, notwithstanding actual surgery, to avoid a losing season. They claim that Rasheed S. was a rapist who was enabled by K and the Duke program. They have alleged that several Duke players were gay, even if true. so what?

Why should we give Carolina the benefit of the doubt on anything? Why shouldn't we delight in every Carolina loss? I do.

I have no hesitation in hoping that Clemson beats Duke. I have no qualms about hoping that North Carolina loses every game.

Whoa!

[jv001]

Nothing sudden about it -- many members of the DBR community have been pulling for Clemson to win at Chapel Hill and end the streak for as long as this forum has been open. Part of that may be attributable to a former poster known as Klemnop, who promised to streak down Franklin Street if and when Clemson could finally win in Chapel Hill; and part of it may just be a natural inclination to cheer for the underdog. But undoubtedly, some of it is the natural instinct of Duke fans to prefer that UNC lose to whatever opponent they may be playing.

So, are you now suddenly a UNC fan? :rolleyes:

And could be attributable to a former poster/cheat fan that always found a way to give out little jabs at Duke teams. :cool:

GoDuke!

[HereBeforeCoachK]

]People will always hate Duke as long as we’re on top. [/B]But I became a fan when Neal McGeachy was coach. Look it up, it was bad. But I loved BOG and everything about Cameron. So I will never take it down a notch, they cheated and showed no remorse. Roy can throw his teams under the bus and I will revel in it, and celebrate every Duke win, and every cheats loss.

the Duke hatred is certainly related to Duke being on top....but there's more to it than that. Its visceral.

[Steven43]

People hate Duke because Duke fans dislike UNC and call out UNC’s two-decades of systematic cheating?

No, they hate the impression — whether real or not — that Duke thinks of itself as being better than the rest — a higher class if you will. They hate the smugness. I’m not saying these things are true. I’m saying that is the IMPRESSION.

And by acting like our program is pure as the driven snow while UNC is pure evil, well, that just feeds perfectly into the anti-Duke stereotype.

[Stray Gator]

There seems to be a higher level of sanctimonious holier-than-thouness on DBR today than is usual. I know it’s fun to pat oneself on the back for feeling morally superior — heck I do it, too — but this is reaching previously unseen levels.

Maybe we could take it down just a notch guys. This is why people hate Duke.

Speaking only for myself, permit me to apologize for being more sanctimonious than usual today, and to express my appreciation for your taking the time to tell us how we should think and feel. In my conduct as a Duke fan going forward, I will endeavor to emulate you and take my moral superiority down a notch so that people will not hate me. Are there any other judgments about those of us who post on the DBR that you'd like to share?

[CameronBornAndBred]

No, they hate the impression — whether real or not — that Duke thinks of itself as being better than the rest — a higher class if you will. They hate the smugness. I’m not saying these things are true. I’m saying that is the IMPRESSION.

And by acting like our program is pure as the driven snow while UNC is pure evil, well, that just feeds perfectly into the anti-Duke stereotype.

I think you are making a too far of a stretch between sports fandom and academia. I know SO many Duke fans that have absolutely no ties to the university, are not "higher class" by any standard, and in fact are turned off by that attitude.
Your posts are distracting greatly from the purpose of this thread, and I think it is going in a direction that is getting borderline offensive to people who are here because they are fans of the SPORTS, not because they are fans of everything else that Duke University stands for.
PS...Carolina sucks and can go to Hell. Saying that as a proud Duke sports fan. (And as a fan of the university.)

[OldPhiKap]

No, they hate the impression — whether real or not — that Duke thinks of itself as being better than the rest — a higher class if you will. They hate the smugness. I’m not saying these things are true. I’m saying that is the IMPRESSION.

And by acting like our program is pure as the driven snow while UNC is pure evil, well, that just feeds perfectly into the anti-Duke stereotype.

UNC has been the most smug and insufferable program in the ACC since the Frank McGuire era. Even though UNC cheated for decades from the end of Dean’s era up until the last few years under Roy. “The Carolina Way” my arse. 9F e’m.

Hard for me to see how Duke fans pulling for Clemson on a Duke site, or Duke fans hating on a former rival on a Duke site, influences anyone really. Anyone from the outside coming here hoping to see our love and respect for those lying, cheating bastards just doesn’t understand the deep dynamic of this relationship IMO.

Is Duke perfect? Of course not. Is that equivalent to the two-decade cheating scandal which stretched across the entire athletic department at UNC, directed by university personnel, covered up by university personnel, and then haughtily dismissed by university personnel?!? C’mon.

What commendable aspect of UNC is the board overlooking?

[Steven43]

Your posts are distracting greatly from the purpose of this thread, and I think it is going in a direction that is getting borderline offensive.
You think that just because you disagree with someone’s comments you can label them as “offensive”?

So let me get this straight: My posts on this subject are “distracting greatly” from the purpose of this thread, but everyone else’s posts ON THE VERY SAME SUBJECT — and which add up to infinitely more posts than mine — are perfectly fine with you? How does that make any sense?

[Steven43]

Speaking only for myself, permit me to apologize for being more sanctimonious than usual today, and to express my appreciation for your taking the time to tell us how we should think and feel. In my conduct as a Duke fan going forward, I will endeavor to emulate you and take my moral superiority down a notch so that people will not hate me. Are there any other judgments about those of us who post on the DBR that you'd like to share?

No, that pretty much covered it, thanks.

[CameronBornAndBred]

You think that just because you disagree with someone’s comments you can label them as “offensive”?
No. I think when your comments label mine as a "higher level of sanctimonious holier-than-thouness", it is offensive.

So let me get this straight: My posts on this subject are “distracting greatly” from the purpose of this thread, but everyone else’s posts ON THE VERY SAME SUBJECT — and which add up to infinitely more posts than mine — are perfectly fine with you? How does that make any sense?
This thread is about "this week in the ACC", not "why I as a Duke fan don't like Carolina". So yes, it is distracting. The only reason that "everyone else’s posts ON THE VERY SAME SUBJECT" in here is because you keep bringing it up.

[dukelifer]

I just don’t understand the “I want UNC to lose every game, totally suck, and basically be the worst basketball program in the entire nation” attitude. If that were reality there would be no rivalry and it would be as boring as boring could be.

ESPN would not highlight its Duke v UNC matchups — for basically an entire week, no less — twice each and every season. In fact, they wouldn’t show the games AT ALL. By UNC losing stature and notoriety, Duke would lose as well. Duke gains tremendously by UNC being great and being a worthy and dangerous rival.

Basically, I think you guys are nuts. Okay, I’m just joking about that last comment. Sort of. 😉

I understand your point but I am very happy to see UNC struggle from time to time. It is unlikely to last so you have to enjoy it while you can. There is no question that having a good team as your rival boosts the brand when you win- and takes the sting out when you lose. But in the end- I want UNC to flame out in tourney.

[Steven43]

Look, regardless of everything that’s been said back-and-forth the bottom line is that I want UNC to be really really good so that when Duke beats them it MATTERS, and it’s truly satisfying as a Duke fan, and the rest of the nation still cares, and it remains the best and most enduring rivalry in all of sports.

If UNC sucks none of these things will be true any longer.

[Ultrarunner]

You think that just because you disagree with someone’s comments you can label them as “offensive”?

So let me get this straight: My posts on this subject are “distracting greatly” from the purpose of this thread, but everyone else’s posts ON THE VERY SAME SUBJECT — and which add up to infinitely more posts than mine — are perfectly fine with you? How does that make any sense?

When one sets himself against all the others on the board and engages in prolonged argumentation which generates all the commentary one then complains about, conflates sports fandom with the academic reputation of the university, when one minimizes the absolute corruption of the ethos of college basketball, one might be distracting from the SPORTS conversation that most here appreciate.

Also, "infinitely"? I'm pretty sure that there is a precise and finite number of rebuttals offered to your arguments.

So, continue to beat the horse - or not, as it makes you happy.

Personally, I want Carolina to suffer a death penalty. The cheaters being terrible will have to do for now.

And, having likely said too much, I'll go back to lurking.

[Troublemaker]

Steven43,

You know how when the Lakers play the Kings, you root for the Kings to win because you're a Celtics fan and the Lakers are your rival and you don't care about the feelings of hypothetical Kings fans who might feel like you're disrespecting them by rooting for them against the Lakers, and you don't care about the Lakers being ultra-successful so that when the Celtics beat them, the glory is that much greater? Yeah, Duke-UNC is like that, except magnified by proximity, a longer history, the college atmosphere, etc.

Frankly, Steven, you draw us into some of the stupidest discussions on DBR. (That, of course, doesn't necessarily mean that you yourself are stupid).

It's a rivalry! Everyone gets it except you (except that you actually do, too, as demonstrated).

[Steven43]

When one sets himself against all the others on the board and engages in prolonged argumentation which generates all the commentary one then complains about, conflates sports fandom with the academic reputation of the university, when one minimizes the absolute corruption of the ethos of college basketball, one might be distracting from the SPORTS conversation that most here appreciate.

Also, "infinitely"? I'm pretty sure that there is a precise and finite number of rebuttals offered to your arguments.

So, continue to beat the horse - or not, as it makes you happy.

Personally, I want Carolina to suffer a death penalty. The cheaters being terrible will have to do for now.

And, having likely said too much, I'll go back to lurking.
For the record, I never said anything about the academic reputation of Duke University. That was another poster’s INCORRECT interpretation of what I had written.

And no, I am not the only Duke fan who feels the way I have been saying on this thread. Plenty of Duke fans agree with me on this, quite a few of whom are posters on DBR.

[OldPhiKap]

For the record, I never said anything about the academic reputation of Duke University. That was another poster’s INCORRECT interpretation of what I had written.

And no, I am not the only Duke fan who feels the way I have been saying on this thread. Plenty of Duke fans agree with me on this, quite a few of whom are posters on DBR.

Do you deny that UNC cheated for years?

[Steven43]

Frankly, Steven, you draw us into some of the stupidest discussions on DBR. (That, of course, doesn't mean that you yourself are stupid).

It's a rivalry! Everyone gets it except you (except that you actually do, too, as demonstrated).
You know, that comment (stupidest discussions) was out of line, Trouble. I like you and you’re often a great poster, but not always. I daresay this is one of those times. There have been hundreds of what one might label “stupid” discussions on DBR over the years of which I have taken no part. But because I respect you, Trouble, I will admit that sometimes I do take controversial stances on purpose when I’m bored with the board.

And no, not everyone “gets it” except me. There have been several posters who essentially sided with my take. It’s not as one-sided as you may think.

[Steven43]

Do you deny that UNC cheated for years?

I never said anything of the sort. I have no idea what certain people who worked at UNC during the years to which you allude did or didn’t do. How the heck would I know? But the NCAA did look into this matter, right? What was their verdict?

[JStuart]

UNC has been the most smug and insufferable program in the ACC since the Frank McGuire era. Even though UNC cheated for decades from the end of Dean’s era up until the last few years under Roy. “The Carolina Way” my arse. 9F e’m.

Hard for me to see how Duke fans pulling for Clemson on a Duke site, or Duke fans hating on a former rival on a Duke site, influences anyone really. Anyone from the outside coming here hoping to see our love and respect for those lying, cheating bastards just doesn’t understand the deep dynamic of this relationship IMO.

Is Duke perfect? Of course not. Is that equivalent to the two-decade cheating scandal which stretched across the entire athletic department at UNC, directed by university personnel, covered up by university personnel, and then haughtily dismissed by university personnel?!? C’mon.

What commendable aspect of UNC is the board overlooking?

Can't spork you for the usual reasons, but your last two sentences are gloriously crafted, and efficiently written, summarizing my feelings precisely. Kudos, instead of sporks, to you, kind Sir.
JStuart

[OldPhiKap]

But the NCAA did look into this matter, right? What was their verdict?

Seriously?!?!?

[Steven43]

Seriously?!?!?

Honestly, I’m not sure what you mean, OPK. It’s not like I independently investigated this subject. Contrary to what you might think, not every Duke fan has spent hours upon hours trying to gather all available information on the alleged UNC cheating matter.

Some of us just want to see the ultra competitive, incredibly exciting, and extraordinarily intense basketball that only the all-time legendary rivalry of Duke v UNC can provide. The political stuff regarding UNC (or Duke) just doesn’t hold nearly the same fascination.

[OldPhiKap]

Honestly, I’m not sure what you mean, OPK. It’s not like I independently investigated this subject. Contrary to what you might think, not every Duke fan has spent hours upon hours trying to gather all available information on the alleged UNC cheating matter.

Some of us just want to see the ultra competitive, incredibly exciting, and extraordinarily intense basketball that only the all-time legendary rivalry of Duke v UNC can provide. The political stuff regarding UNC (or Duke) just doesn’t hold nearly the same fascination.

Gotcha. You’ve been posting here since 2009 but missed all the threads on UNC’s cheating scandal and you have never sought to form an opinion or educate yourself on the issue. But yet you are so in tune with the Duke-UNC rivalry that you can lecture others they don’t properly understand or appreciate it.

Cool by me. Good luck pulling against Clemson, I guess. Go Heels.

[CameronBornAndBred]

Just to make a post actually pertinent to this thread, nobody played anybody in the ACC today.
That also means that, unfortunately, Carolina didn't lose today.

[Hingeknocker]

Just to make a post actually pertinent to this thread, nobody played anybody in the ACC today.
That also means that, unfortunately, Carolina didn't lose today.

But - and almost as crucially - they didn't win either!

[Steven43]

Gotcha. You’ve been posting here since 2009 but missed all the threads on UNC’s cheating scandal and you have never sought to form an opinion or educate yourself on the issue. But yet you are so in tune with the Duke-UNC rivalry that you can lecture others they don’t properly understand or appreciate it.

Cool by me. Good luck pulling against Clemson, I guess. Go Heels.
Yep, I really wasn’t very interested in the threads on DBR regarding UNC’s scandal. Partially, because I didn’t consider negative things posted in regard to UNC on a Duke fan forum to exactly be unbiased truth. But also because there was nothing I could do about it anyway. The NCAA was planning to investigate and reach a verdict, and that’s exactly what they did. What else is there to say?

And I will be in the Smith Center on Saturday hoping that UNC beats Clemson. Not because I like UNC Basketball — far from it, I absolutely DESPISE Tar Heels Basketball — but because I want them to be a stronger, more-highly-regarded opponent for Duke, and I want the UNC fans to get their hopes up only to see them obliterated and crushed.

[Steven43]

No. I think when your comments label mine as a "higher level of sanctimonious holier-than-thouness", it is offensive.

This thread is about "this week in the ACC", not "why I as a Duke fan don't like Carolina". So yes, it is distracting. The only reason that "everyone else’s posts ON THE VERY SAME SUBJECT" in here is because you keep bringing it up.

Nope, I did not specifically label your comments as such. You may have interpreted it as me speaking about you, but I never specified that.

And no, I don’t keep bringing it up. Posters keep challenging my posts so I respond. If you ignore my posts there wouldn’t be any reason for me to respond and the topic would die a natural death.

[Billy Dat]

Just an observation related to the bold section, I guess the TV you were watching put on the requisite 10 or even more pounds. Funderburke is listed at 6-10 / 225, basically the same weight as Jack White (6-7) and 12 pounds less than Javin DeLaurier (6-10), neither of whom is particularly "thick".

I guess I meant Cru Thik. ;^)

[Steven43]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nunesmagician.com/platform/amp/2020/1/9/21058518/acc-basketball-conference-stinks-north-carolina-syracuse-ncaa-jim-boeheim-kevin-keatts-nba-zion-duke

What do y’all think of this take on the Duke v Georgia Tech game? I haven’t seen all of the game yet — I’ve only watched the first half thus far — but plan to finish it tomorrow. Was Georgia Tech really as close to beating Duke as this guy suggests?

[bigperm13]

I got dementia reading the last 6 pages, is this the Wendell Moore finger vigil thread?

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Yep, I really wasn’t very interested in the threads on DBR regarding UNC’s scandal. Partially, because I didn’t consider negative things posted in regard to UNC on a Duke fan forum to exactly be unbiased truth. But also because there was nothing I could do about it anyway. The NCAA was planning to investigate and reach a verdict, and that’s exactly what they did. What else is there to say?

And I will be in the Smith Center on Saturday hoping that UNC beats Clemson. Not because I like UNC Basketball — far from it, I absolutely DESPISE Tar Heels Basketball — but because I want them to be a stronger, more-highly-regarded opponent for Duke, and I want the UNC fans to get their hopes up only to see them obliterated and crushed.

FYI, you aren't alone in your final point here. I echoed the sentiment of hoping UNC only loses four games a season (all to Duke, obviously). The biggest difference is I did it thirty posts ago in two sentences and didn't get defensive about it.

Who the heck is playing this weekend and what are the good match ups beyond Clemson and UNC?

[SkyBrickey]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nunesmagician.com/platform/amp/2020/1/9/21058518/acc-basketball-conference-stinks-north-carolina-syracuse-ncaa-jim-boeheim-kevin-keatts-nba-zion-duke

What do y’all think of this take on the Duke v Georgia Tech game? I haven’t seen all of the game yet — I’ve only watched the first half thus far — but plan to finish it tomorrow. Was Georgia Tech really as close to beating Duke as this guy suggests?

It was a tighter game than a 9 point win for sure but still a good ACC road win.

In terms of the “no dominant teams” narrative, it’s taken hold across the media landscape but at some point we may drown it in the bathtub.

Dan Bonner said on air the other night that according to all the advanced metrics this Duke team is dominant and if we’d hit one more free throw against SFA the whole story would be different. A crack in the dam...

Personally I don’t need to be labeled dominant in Jan, just in March. Heal up Wendell!

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Personally I don’t need to be labeled dominant in Jan, just in March. Heal up Wendell!

This! January accolades don't count for much.

[CameronDuke]

FYI, you aren't alone in your final point here. I echoed the sentiment of hoping UNC only loses four games a season (all to Duke, obviously). The biggest difference is I did it thirty posts ago in two sentences and didn't get defensive about it.

Who the heck is playing this weekend and what are the good match ups beyond Clemson and UNC?

There are actually some decent games slated for this weekend:

Saturday
Louisville at Notre Dame
NCSU at Virginia Tech
Cuse at UVa
Clemson at unc
GT at BC
Wake at Duke

Sunday
Pitt at Miami

[wsb3]

It was a tighter game than a 9 point win for sure but still a good ACC road win.

Tied with 4:20 to go. 2 point lead with 2:48 to go when GT misses a wide open 3. That might have been the biggest play of the game. My nerves were well in play so yeah it was tighter than a 9 point win for sure. :)

[Neals384]

Nice, this made me chuckle.



Devil's advocate -- Roy says that he called several plays, and they ran the wrong ones. He also said they didn't want to switch up top and the players did anyway. That is likely on the players and not the coach. (Whether he called a time-out to correct it or not I do not know, and if he failed to do that then Roy shares some blame for the repetition of the problem).

Similarly, if people are in shooting slumps and miss open shots that's not on the coach either. One could argue about whether calling out the player for it helps or hurts (depends on the player I guess), but pointing it out is an honest statement it seems to me.

I am far from a Roy supporter as y'all know. But sometimes the players are just not top ACC-talent level players. Through a series of fortunate events and an unfortunate injury that's what he is stuck with right now. I could argue that he should have recruited better, but that doesn't affect an honest assessment of what he has now or what happened last night. His players are getting outplayed by about half of the teams they have faced so far.

Oh, and Roy is a cheating bastard for whom I feel no pity. Go Clemson. {Whew, that felt better}

Call a timeout? Why in the world would Roy do that when his players don’t listen anyway and aren’t any good? No, Roy saved three timeouts to use next year when he might actually have some talent to work with.

[Neals384]

Honestly, I’m not sure what you mean, OPK. It’s not like I independently investigated this subject. Contrary to what you might think, not every Duke fan has spent hours upon hours trying to gather all available information on the alleged UNC cheating matter.

Some of us just want to see the ultra competitive, incredibly exciting, and extraordinarily intense basketball that only the all-time legendary rivalry of Duke v UNC can provide. The political stuff regarding UNC (or Duke) just doesn’t hold nearly the same fascination.

seriously? I’m sorry you didn’t find the Duke games in last year’s NCAA tournament competitive, intense and exciting. Or Virginia’s win the the final, for that matter. Or any of Duke’s games so far this season.

[OldPhiKap]

Call a timeout? Why in the world would Roy do that when his players don’t listen anyway and aren’t any good? No, Roy saved three timeouts to use next year when he might actually have some talent to work with.

Baffling. I guess he just wants to throw them in the deep end and hope they develop the ability to figure it out themselves?

Baffling.

[budwom]

I just wonder if Roy's moaning will reduce the chances of Anthony returning. Why not assure good health and forego joining Roy's whipping boys?

[Tripping William]

I just wonder if Roy's moaning will reduce the chances of Anthony returning. Why not assure good health and forego joining Roy's whipping boys?

Makes me wonder what Greg Anthony is thinking about the whole thing.

[OldPhiKap]

I just wonder if Roy's moaning will reduce the chances of Anthony returning. Why not assure good health and forego joining Roy's whipping boys?

Players play. I would bet on him being back.

[Steven43]

seriously? I’m sorry you didn’t find the Duke games in last year’s NCAA tournament competitive, intense and exciting. Or Virginia’s win the the final, for that matter. Or any of Duke’s games so far this season.

Seriously?!?! Just because I find Duke v UNC to be the ultimate in athletic competition, it does not therefore follow that I am making a negative commentary on any other Duke games. You made an unfounded assumption about what I was trying to say and in so doing tried (and failed) to make a connection that simply isn’t there.

[Steven43]

FYI, you aren't alone in your final point here. I echoed the sentiment of hoping UNC only loses four games a season (all to Duke, obviously). The biggest difference is I did it thirty posts ago in two sentences and didn't get defensive about it.
Noted, Mtn.Devil. 😉

[ChillinDuke]

FYI, you aren't alone in your final point here. I echoed the sentiment of hoping UNC only loses four games a season (all to Duke, obviously). The biggest difference is I did it thirty posts ago in two sentences and didn't get defensive about it.

Who the heck is playing this weekend and what are the good match ups beyond Clemson and UNC?

This post sums up everything in the last 3-5 pages. Well done, Mtn. All of us, including Steven43, would be wise to take this tack more often than not.

- Chillin

[hudlow]

Maybe the the players who are currently suiting up for games are beginning to feel like coach thinks they aren't worthy of his immense talents.
The Golden Boy is still riding the pine. Is he really - as some have speculated - selfishly saving himself for a career in the big leagues - team be damned...?
Reasons enough for some to only go through the motions of being a team, following a plan and giving it one's all for the game.

I always felt like one of the underlying reasons that led to Dean's retirement was that he felt he had had lost the ability to completely control his teams on the floor. Maybe Roy's feeling it too.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

This post sums up everything in the last 3-5 pages. Well done, Mtn. All of us, including Steven43, would be wise to take this tack more often than not.

- Chillin

Well, I did feel the need to pat myself on the back in the aftermath.

We all have different senses of board decorum, I suppose.

[Steven43]

Well, I did feel the need to pat myself on the back in the aftermath.
Well done. Made me smile 😃

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Well done. Made me smile 😃

I endeavor to not take any of this too seriously.

[MChambers]

Looks like some bettors are bullish on UNC. UNC is the betting favorite in Vegas to win the NIT this year:

https://www.majorwager.com/circa-sports-offers-up-odds-to-win-the-2020-nit-giving-unc-the-shortest-number/

Who knew you could bet on this in January?

[Acymetric]

Looks like some bettors are bullish on UNC. UNC is the betting favorite in Vegas to win the NIT this year:

https://www.majorwager.com/circa-sports-offers-up-odds-to-win-the-2020-nit-giving-unc-the-shortest-number/

Who knew you could bet on this in January?

That is a sucker's bet! Won't even be in the field!

Picking the NIT winner has to be a lot harder than picking the NCAA winner, because you don't even know who will be in contention.

[Hingeknocker]

That is a sucker's bet! Won't even be in the field!

Picking the NIT winner has to be a lot harder than picking the NCAA winner, because you don't even know who will be in contention.

They don't call us degenerates for nothing! Anybody got CBI odds?

I'd actually really be interested to hear a sportsbook's explanation for how they arrive at these odds. They have to draw a fine line between teams who are good enough to win the NIT, but also likely to not play so well over the next 2 months that they don't screw up and end up in the Big Dance. Fortunately, I haven't spent too much time thinking about the profiles of teams who go on to win the NIT. Perhaps if UNC gets their second bite at the apple in 10 years, they'll be able to enlighten us.

[SavDukeGrad]

Louisville squeaks out a win at Notre Dame. Irish rain 3s in the second half and miss a shot at the buzzer to tie. I didn’t watch the whole game, but Mike Brey appears to be getting his team to over-achieve, as usual.

[CameronBornAndBred]

Louisville squeaks out a win at Notre Dame. Irish rain 3s in the second half and miss a shot at the buzzer to tie. I didn’t watch the whole game, but Mike Brey appears to be getting his team to over-achieve, as usual.

We tuned it out to watch VT-State. The Louisville - ND game was turning into a blowout, it was ugly. Either Louisville fell apart or ND did something special for them to claw back in that close. (Or maybe a little of both.)

[Tooold]

Louisville squeaks out a win at Notre Dame. Irish rain 3s in the second half and miss a shot at the buzzer to tie. I didn’t watch the whole game, but Mike Brey appears to be getting his team to over-achieve, as usual.
I couldn’t understand the ND strategy at the end. They seemed to have absolutely no interest in setting up a three point shot (or any shot, for that matter) when they were down by 3 with time running out. The first effort they made seemed to be a panicked attempt at a lay-up that missed. Then they threw up an off-balance 3, but the shooter didn’t seem to want to take the shot. Weird.