Is Duke athletics very strict with licensing?

[BlueDevil16]

Holiday shopping and nearly everywhere I look online at a brand that sells NCAA licensed merch (beyond the usual Nike shirts), I see a ton of college gear for similar small P5 private schools (Stanford, BC, Northwestern, Vandy, etc) but almost never Duke stuff.

[Neals384]

Shop Duke store directly:
https://shopdukestores.duke.edu/ePOS

[Bluedog]

Probably...John Wayne Enterprises would say so as they wanted to sell bourbon that said "The Duke" on it and Duke U and them were involved in lawsuits over it.
https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/thr-esq/judge-dismisses-john-wayne-estate-737145

[SkyBrickey]

Just one example. Peter Millar has high quality collegiate branded men’s clothing online for all ACC schools except Duke. It’s interesting and a little frustrating... I can only own so much Duke Nike stuff.

[OZZIE4DUKE]

In a word, YES! It’s become one of the most valuable college brands around. Thank you Coach K!

[BlueDevil16]

Just one example. Peter Millar has high quality collegiate branded men’s clothing online for all ACC schools except Duke. It’s interesting and a little frustrating... I can only own so much Duke Nike stuff.

I think they sell some stuff directly on the Duke store. Same with Hillflint sweaters. But it’s a limited selection.

[sagegrouse]

Probably...John Wayne Enterprises would say so as they wanted to sell bourbon that said "The Duke" on it and Duke U and them were involved in lawsuits over it.
https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/thr-esq/judge-dismisses-john-wayne-estate-737145

If the Duke Wellington were to magically come back to life, I doubt he could market "Iron Duke" stuff in the US of A.

[CameronBornAndBred]

A few years ago we found some great Duke football themed fabric in a store, and my gf made me an awesome blanket from it. Others asked where we got it, and since then I have never found it again. I also learned that Duke stopped licensing it.
In fact, the only fabric to be found is in the form of tablecloths. Maybe they are too afraid of others making their own things from it to sell.
So yeah, Duke is strict on it, aggravatingly so.
If you look at this site, and type "Duke", the only return is for JMU. (Lots of Carolina stuff, of course.)
https://www.joann.com/fabric/team-shop-fabric/

[HereBeforeCoachK]

Probably...John Wayne Enterprises would say so as they wanted to sell bourbon that said "The Duke" on it and Duke U and them were involved in lawsuits over it.
https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/thr-esq/judge-dismisses-john-wayne-estate-737145

Please tell me this is satire...must've been decided by the same committee that handles concessions and security at FB games. Wonder when they'll sue Duke's Mayonnaise and try to prevent anyone from saying "putting up your dukes" and so on. Madness.

[bundabergdevil]

Probably...John Wayne Enterprises would say so as they wanted to sell bourbon that said "The Duke" on it and Duke U and them were involved in lawsuits over it.
https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/thr-esq/judge-dismisses-john-wayne-estate-737145

This doesn't surprise me. There are lawyers upon lawyers working on behalf of big brands whose only purpose and glee in life is to find obscure knock-offs of their precious logo or name or corporate color scheme and send threatening cease and desist letters.

[-jk]

This doesn't surprise me. There are lawyers upon lawyers working on behalf of big brands whose only purpose and glee in life is to find obscure knock-offs of their precious logo or name or corporate color scheme and send threatening cease and desist letters.

Yeah, but if they don't actively go after knockoffs then they can lose their trademark.

-jk

[HereBeforeCoachK]

Yeah, but if they don't actively go after knockoffs then they can lose their trademark.

-jk

Hmmm.......I don't know that that's true, and certainly, being totally anal-retentive about it (adjective not a curse word) is not necessary to protect a trademark....and who would Duke lose their trademark to?

I think they're over the top here. Someone sells a few knock-offs? Doesnt' necessarily take away a single sale from Duke and it is free advertising.

But they didn't ask me.

[DU82]

Hmmm...I don't know that that's true, and certainly, being totally anal-retentive about it (adjective not a curse word) is not necessary to protect a trademark...and who would Duke lose their trademark to?

I think they're over the top here. Someone sells a few knock-offs? Doesnt' necessarily take away a single sale from Duke and it is free advertising.

But they didn't ask me.

Good thing.

Intellectual properties are very vulnerable to "knock offs" and becoming "generic." Yes, they (and Disney, who is perhaps most aggressive) have to protect their properties. It's a big part of their business (and yes, I'm saying business for Duke.)

Same with copyrights. Those song writers work to produce them, the "knockoffs" can hurt them, and DOES take away from sales. (Sometimes it's image as well, as in some musicians asking politicians to stop playing their music during campaign stops.)

For either, if they allow a "knockoff" to continue with their knowledge, then the next guy can come in and claim that they have the right to produce other knockoffs. (There are some exceptions, such as homages or parody. Even there, somebody like Weird Al pays royalties for his parody songs.)

You mouth off about a lot of things here that you don't have a clue about. How about consulting one of the many lawyers here for more details before doing so again (I have a good friend who spent years as an IP attorney, and has given me a lot of good information, from which I base my comments. I'm interested in the subject, but no expert.)

[sagegrouse]

Good thing.

Intellectual properties are very vulnerable to "knock offs" and becoming "generic." Yes, they (and Disney, who is perhaps most aggressive) have to protect their properties. It's a big part of their business (and yes, I'm saying business for Duke.)

Same with copyrights. Those song writers work to produce them, the "knockoffs" can hurt them, and DOES take away from sales. (Sometimes it's image as well, as in some musicians asking politicians to stop playing their music during campaign stops.)

For either, if they allow a "knockoff" to continue with their knowledge, then the next guy can come in and claim that they have the right to produce other knockoffs. (There are some exceptions, such as homages or parody. Even there, somebody like Weird Al pays royalties for his parody songs.)

You mouth off about a lot of things here that you don't have a clue about. How about consulting one of the many lawyers here for more details before doing so again (I have a good friend who spent years as an IP attorney, and has given me a lot of good information, from which I base my comments. I'm interested in the subject, but no expert.)

One of Duke University's biggest problem is that "Duke" is a common noun, a not unusual surname (or nickname), and the title of famous noblemen. Hard to protect D-U-K-E, but the University puts out a big effort.

[Indoor66]

I fully understand and support brand protection, but The Duke was a bigger name than Duke for a long time. In addition, it is not like they were using The Cameron.

[HereBeforeCoachK]

Good thing.

Intellectual properties are very vulnerable to "knock offs" and becoming "generic." Yes, they (and Disney, who is perhaps most aggressive) have to protect their properties. It's a big part of their business (and yes, I'm saying business for Duke.)



That doesn't explain the John Wayne thing one iota. Not one.

[sagegrouse]

That doesn't explain the John Wayne thing one iota. Not one.

Not sure what your question is, HBCK, but here's a snippet of an article from the "spirits industry." All of this occurred well after John Wayne died.


A federal judge has dismissed a lawsuit by the descendants of John Wayne over the trademark of a Bourbon brand launched in the late actor’s name.

John Wayne Enterprises claimed that Duke University, based in North Carolina, was attempting to block the company from selling its Duke Bourbon, which uses the nickname of western movie star John Wayne.

Duke University filed an objection with the U.S. Patent and Trademark Office last year, claiming the label used in the bottle is “substantially similar” to its own logos, which feature a blue devil mascot and university shield.

Wayne’s estate has branded this claim as “ludicrous”, arguing “Duke University does not own the word Duke in all contexts for all purposes”, launching legal action against the university’s objections.

“Apparently, Duke University believes that products bearing John Wayne’s world renowned image and signature, like the bottle of Bourbon, will somehow be confused as being associated with Duke University,” said the estate.

[brevity]

Good news for John Wayne's estate. They might have better luck marketing items that show THE in big letters and DUKE in smaller letters, now that Ohio State has been told they can't trademark the word THE (https://www.thelantern.com/2019/09/ohio-state-refused-the-trademark/).

10009

I wonder if the University Stores sell this one on Parents' Weekend...

[HereBeforeCoachK]

Not sure what your question is, HBCK, but here's a snippet of an article from the "spirits industry." All of this occurred well after John Wayne died.

In context, Sage, my point was that the normal prudent steps necessary to maintain a trademark stop WAY short of how Duke reacted to the John Wayne "The Duke" bourbon idea. I understand you have to shut down unlicensed purveyors of tee shirts and coffee mugs and so on.....but you don't have to be idiotic about it by saying to John Wayne's family that they will have to go to court to make and sell "The Duke" bourbon. And even if a black market tee shirt outfit sold a few hundred or even a few thousand tees before you shut them down, that's nothing to fret over. Might create a few more Duke fans.....

[OldPhiKap]

Yeah, but if they don't actively go after knockoffs then they can lose their trademark.

-jk

Yup. We represent an entity that holds an internationally-recognized sporting event every year. They are extremely protective and litigious over restricting use of their name and symbols, and always have been. Because the law requires it.

Duke University and the NCAA do the same, as they must.

[Kdogg]

Just one example. Peter Millar has high quality collegiate branded men’s clothing online for all ACC schools except Duke. It’s interesting and a little frustrating... I can only own so much Duke Nike stuff.

Duke sells stuff by Peter Millar (https://shopdukestores.duke.edu/ePOS/form=robots/catalog.html&this_category=974&store=106) and Brooks Brother (https://shopdukestores.duke.edu/ePOS?form=shared3/gm/merch.html&cat=973&store=106&design=106)

[hallcity]

We represent an entity that holds an internationally-recognized sporting event every year. They are extremely protective and litigious over protecting their name and symbols, and always have been. Because the law requires it.

Duke University and the NCAA do the same, as they must.

Right, but the question is why Duke University doesn’t license its trademark to more legitimate, royalty-paying apparel manufacturers.

[OldPhiKap]

Right, but the question is why Duke University doesn’t license its trademark to more legitimate, royalty-paying apparel manufacturers.

It’s a business decision that made sense to someone at Duke apparently. No inside info on it.

[fuse]

Very strict in the sense if money can be made, the university will take its cut.

[HereBeforeCoachK]

It’s a business decision that made sense to someone at Duke apparently. No inside info on it.

...or it could be an arbitrary hap hazard decision like all of the decisions regarding concessions......etc.......

[BlueDevil16]

Duke sells stuff by Peter Millar (https://shopdukestores.duke.edu/ePOS/form=robots/catalog.html&this_category=974&store=106) and Brooks Brother (https://shopdukestores.duke.edu/ePOS?form=shared3/gm/merch.html&cat=973&store=106&design=106)

Anyone know why Duke is I think the only school that doesn’t let Peter Millar and Brooks Brothers sell the Duke merch on their site but only through the Duke store?

[SkyBrickey]

Duke sells stuff by Peter Millar (https://shopdukestores.duke.edu/ePOS/form=robots/catalog.html&this_category=974&store=106) and Brooks Brother (https://shopdukestores.duke.edu/ePOS?form=shared3/gm/merch.html&cat=973&store=106&design=106)

Maybe so but a lot more selection here for all ACC alums except Duke... Strange. I'm sure there's an interesting story behind it.

https://www.petermillar.com/c/c/acc-schools.html

[ikiru36]

Hi all,

Two things I want to share regarding this issue, especially for those who live in the Durham area:

1) For years I have felt tormented by the fact that our local Costco here in Durham (N. Pointe Drive) carries almost exclusively UNC merchandise, and practically never Duke merch. I long assumed that this was an intentional dig by some UNC loving store manager, as crazy as it seemed with the store being literally less than 2 miles from Duke's campus, on the North side of town away from CH no less. I've muttered to store staff occasionally about it over the years and just this past month felt incensed enough to put my displeasure into writing with customer service, as follows:
"It has been a disgrace that for years, at this specific store located in Durham, you only or primarily carry fan gear from the only area university repeatedly accused of systemic athletic/academic fraud and the hiding of campus rape. Please carry Durham (NCCU, Duke) and NC State gear as well. Thank you."
Low and behold, and to their credit, that evening I received the following email from the store manager:
"{Ikiru36}, my name is Mike Gandini and I am the General Manager of the Costco located in Durham, NC. I wanted to take a moment to follow up with you on a comment you left in our suggestion box. Over the years we have brought in items from various local schools to sell in the warehouse. Through trial and error, certain schools sell better than others. There are also schools that have licensing agreements set in place that prevent us from selling their merchandise. Take for instance, Duke University. The licensing agreements that they have in place preclude us (as well as many other retailers) from selling a bulk of their merchandise. We have tried over the years to sell NC State as well. For some reason we have a very hard time moving through their merchandise here in Durham but in our Raleigh location, it flies off the pallets.. For that reason, we have cut back considerably on what we bring in and commit to. We have asked in the past about carrying NCCU product and I believe we can look into this again at this time. Thank you again for the feedback."
So... if I take him at his word (which I do somewhat, if not entirely), this is one of the ways that Duke fans are hurt by whatever licensing arrangements Duke has either specifically put into place and/or specifically not sought. If anyone on the board knows who we might contact at Duke to raise this particular issue to see if it can be rectified, please let me know, at least as regards this Durham Costco!

2) On a much happier note, there are stores in Durham where Duke merchandise can be found at far more affordable prices (while still legally, I assume) than those directly through Duke Stores or the Duck Shop. Target does seem to be able to get affordable Duke merchandise that is frequently for sale near the entrance in Durham, but the store I would really like to highlight (and I have no personal ties to the store) is the TJ Maxx on 15-501, by Garrett Road. They always have some Duke (as well as other area team) merchandise, including some of the Official Nike Gear that is otherwise hard to come by at less than exorbitant full price. Anyways, the main reason I wanted to share this today is that a couple of times a year they often seem to have way more gear, in a full range of sizes, than is typical, and one of those times is right now!!!
10012
(above taken yesterday, 12/15/2019)
So if you are in the area and are seeking Duke clothing and other merchandise, sometimes including the expensive Nike Elite(!) stuff, I recommend heading over there asap, while the getting is good. Good hunting and Go Devils!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[budwom]

^ yeah, I know first hand that Costco goes with the stuff that sells...friend of mine developed a product (cost him many millions), Costco allowed him to put it into a number of their stores for a trial run....sales were lousy, out went the product.

[ikiru36]

^ yeah, I know first hand that Costco goes with the stuff that sells...friend of mine developed a product (cost him many millions), Costco allowed him to put it into a number of their stores for a trial run...sales were lousy, out went the product.

Agreed. Though I think the bigger issue with the Duke merchandise is the difficulty obtaining it in the first place, at least from whatever distributors Costco typically gets its bulk deals from. I get that the NC State merch sells much better in Raleigh, but there is no doubt that they would do a brisk business in Duke gear if it were there. I won't guarantee that it would outsell that other area school down the road, but it would be pretty close, at worst. GTHCGTH and Go Devils!!!!!!!!

[AZLA]

Yes. Consider it the Apple or Star Wars brand equivalent for college. They will come for you.

[DU82]

The local Belk carries almost no Duke merchandise other than a Tervis cup and the like. So I can no longer take a Duke shirt from the back racks and put it in front of the prominent Cheater display.

[sagegrouse]

The local Belk carries almost no Duke merchandise other than a Tervis cup and the like. So I can no longer take a Duke shirt from the back racks and put it in front of the prominent Cheater display.

Thank God for RDU, where I can go from store to store putting Duke merch in front of UNC stuff.

[Edouble]

The local Belk carries almost no Duke merchandise other than a Tervis cup and the like. So I can no longer take a Duke shirt from the back racks and put it in front of the prominent Cheater display.


Thank God for RDU, where I can go from store to store putting Duke merch in front of UNC stuff.

OK, um... I love you guys.

[JNort]

I haven't been in a long time to check but Cracker Barrel used to sell a bunch of Duke stuff. My grandmother would go every weekend just to buy Duke clothes for me when I was younger.

[Indoor66]

I haven't been in a long time to check but Cracker Barrel used to sell a bunch of Duke stuff. My grandmother would go every weekend just to buy Duke clothes for me when I was younger.

I've heard a lot of excuses for going to Cracker Barrel, but that one may top them all. 😂🤣😎