2019 2K Sports Classic: Duke vs Cal, Texas vs Georgetown

[Troublemaker]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2K_Sports_Classic#2019

You know, this board could use a bit more basketball nerdery.

I unfortunately can't contribute many posts to this forum for the time being, but I was hoping that other DBR posters would be talking about Duke vs Cal, whether we want Texas or Gtown to win in the other game, etc etc.

Tomorrow they're playing the games. People know that right?

[SkyBrickey]

I'll jump in. 121 views and no posts? I hope this board picks up a little momentum this season for our #1 Blue Devils!

Cal's strength is 3-point shooting so far this year. 45.5%, 4th in the country. I like our ability to chase shooters off the line in the half court set. It will be key to find them on secondary breaks after turnovers or quick outlets off rebounds. I expect we'll sort it out on defense, but they could definitely hit a few early 3s and put us on our heels a bit.

Texas or Georgetown. I don't have a preference although I seem to remember that star guard Matt Coleman at Texas was a key Duke target a few years back. He had 22 points and 7 assists in a big win on the road against Purdue recently. Might be fun watching him and Tre do battle.

[jwillfan]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2K_Sports_Classic#2019

You know, this board could use a bit more basketball nerdery.

I unfortunately can't contribute many posts to this forum for the time being, but I was hoping that other DBR posters would be talking about Duke vs Cal, whether we want Texas or Gtown to win in the other game, etc etc.

Tomorrow they're playing the games. People know that right?

Saw this earlier when I was walking the dog but I don't post from my phone, well, rarely. Now post-dinner and nobody has responded and it's moved down the page?

Well, I for one am ready to move on from football entirely and don't really have much affinity for the NBA, nor very-short-time Duke players who were here for a year and I barely remember.

I know a lot of NY Duke fans attending tomorrow and Friday. I can't say I know bupkiss about Cal but as far as our guys go:

Would like to see continued strong play from Tre and Vernon
Better 3 pt shooting but especially from Matthew and Alex
Continued leadership and strong rebounding and D from Jack and Javin - wouldn't mind seeing improved finishes from JD and at least a 30% night from 3 from Jack
Stronger bench minutes from Wendell and Joey, especially Wendell's court vision/decision making and Joey's D. I take Jordan G's D and ball handling as a given - just don't want him to have to shoot


Those are my wishes along with of course a win for tomorrow. As for who we play on Friday, I think G'Town got blasted by Penn St in the B1G/BEast challenge and don't know what to think about Texas - so happy to take either on in the *late* game Friday which assumes a win tomorrow.

-JWF

[AGDukesky]

I think this will be a struggle and if we are able to win, I definitely want Georgetown because it has not been impressive while Texas has played well.

[SkyBrickey]

I think this will be a struggle and if we are able to win, I definitely want Georgetown because it has not been impressive while Texas has played well.

Let's play the better team! These seasons move fast and if want to be fully primed for ACC season, let's have a tougher test with Texas. We will grow from it. And if we lose and drop out of the top 5, who cares at this point?

But first, Cal...

[OZZIE4DUKE]

I’ll be there with some of my closest friends, rooting like hell!

I don’t care who we play on Friday as long as it’s the second game! LGD GTHc!

[Native]

Will also be in the house! Nothing like a good Garden party to kick off the holiday season.

[SF Dukie]

Cal has a couple of forwards from Australia and a 7' 250 lb center from Germany.

https://calbears.com/roster.aspx?roster=1427&path=mbball

Preseason they were predicted to finish 12th in the Pac 12.

[Saratoga2]

Based on the team play so far, with a focus on defense and a relatively weak offense, we are in danger of upset by any team who can shoot well. Lets hope our defense can at least hold Cal's shooting down and that both Cassius and Matthew show more offense.

Javin looks like he has regressed despite his solid athletic ability he is very foul prone and doesn't seem to be able to finish arounnd the rim. I had hopes for a step up by Alex in his junior year, but so far a big if is attached to his play. Wendell is a strong kid but appears quite raw. Joey can shoot but is behind in defense. Jack is a very good defender and rebounder but has lost any semblence of offensive contribution. Jordan is mmore of a backup PG and ball handler without much offensive potential.

To date it looks like our best bet is to give Tre, Vernon, Cassius, Matthew and Jack the most minutes they can handle while subbing in the others. Hope the offensive light goes on for some of the guys soon.

[arnie]

Based on the team play so far, with a focus on defense and a relatively weak offense, we are in danger of upset by any team who can shoot well. Lets hope our defense can at least hold Cal's shooting down and that both Cassius and Matthew show more offense.

Javin looks like he has regressed despite his solid athletic ability he is very foul prone and doesn't seem to be able to finish arounnd the rim. I had hopes for a step up by Alex in his junior year, but so far a big if is attached to his play. Wendell is a strong kid but appears quite raw. Joey can shoot but is behind in defense. Jack is a very good defender and rebounder but has lost any semblence of offensive contribution. Jordan is mmore of a backup PG and ball handler without much offensive potential.

To date it looks like our best bet is to give Tre, Vernon, Cassius, Matthew and Jack the most minutes they can handle while subbing in the others. Hope the offensive light goes on for some of the guys soon.

Line opened at Duke -19, up to -20 at one casino.

[SkyBrickey]

I would venture a guess that this board has never been this negative on a #1 Duke team.

[jv001]

I would venture a guess that this board has never been this negative on a #1 Duke team.

I think it's called, "spoiled" from all the highly rated players who picked Duke coming out of high school over the last several years. This year Carey was the only top ten recruit who chose Duke. The others are top 20-30s, but I'm actually excited with the possibility of guys staying around for 2 or 3 years. Maybe even staying for their 4 year degree. I'll be watching tonight's game, Lord willing. And I'm hoping to see our players improve on the offensive end of the court.
GoDuke!

[Saratoga2]

I would venture a guess that this board has never been this negative on a #1 Duke team.

Maybe a more appropriate word would be realistic. The young guys, especially Hurt and Stanley are most likely to show early improvement. I am hoping they can do that tonight

[53n206]

I would venture a guess that this board has never been this negative on a #1 Duke team.

Long time since we've been not great on offense. Tough to come around to appreciating a defense orientated team. But-- Go Duke!

[DavidBenAkiva]

The nightcap at the 2K Empire Classic is going to be a contrast of styles. Cal is playing a deliberate pace and is one of the slowest teams in the nation (adjusted tempo of 68.5 on BartTorvik.com / 296/353 in the nation). The Golden Bears make up for this slow pace by shooting the ball very well. connecting on 45.5% from 3. That caveat to that is that they have one of the lower 3-point shooting rates in the nation with just 31.3% of possessions ending in a 3-pointer. So they are not looking to take many 3's but the certainly hit them when they do. Cal does turn the ball over a bit much and they don't force many TOs so far on the young season. Neither do they excel in rebounding, blocking, or many other stats. They have shot the ball very well and have forced very few free-throw attempts.

Duke, as we well know, are polar opposites. The Blue Devils have forced the pace and are the 17th fastest paced team in the nation. Where the team has excelled, relative to others, is in forcing poor shots, forcing turnovers, and rebounding the basketball - both on the offensive and defensive side of the ball. Duke wants the game to be up and down and get ugly. Duke is also allowing just 26.4% of opponent possessions to end in a 3-pointer. Part of that could be the opponents so far. Kansas, for example, only took 9 attempts. But Central Arkansas only took 15 while Georgia State took 12. Duke is running teams off the line and grabbing the rebounds when teams miss closer to the rim.

Where the shooting prowess of the Bears could be a problematic for Duke is the frontcourt. The two primary big men for Cal - 6'8" forwards JR Grant Anticevich and SO Andre Kelly - both shoot the ball well from 3 and have each taken a good share of mid-range jumpers. Kelly has been more of an inside threat than Anticevich, taking most of his shots at the rim. Neither is a rim protector or does much to poke the ball away when the ball goes inside. Look for Vernon Carey to establish himself often inside given his height and weight advantage. Cal also has a 7-footer, freshman Lars Thiemann. Thiemann has started all 4 games for Cal but is playing about 15 minutes a game and has taken all of 6 shots from the field on the season.

In the backcourt, Cal relies heavily on SO Matt Bradley, a 6'4" guard. Bradley has a pretty high usage rate of 27.7 while the next-closest of the starters is 6'3" SR Kareem South. Bradley is nominally a point guard, although he has more turnovers than assists on the season. Look for Duke's relentless press to force Cal into bad passes and fast-break opportunities. Where Bradley excels is in shooting the ball. He's 11-21 from 3 on the season (52.4%). Bradley is more than a shooter as he's split his field goal attempts between 2 and 3. He also excels at getting to the free-throw line, taking an absurd 26 attempts on the year so far. The next most attempts on the team is FR Center Thiemann with 7. Bradley is hitting 88.5% from the charity stripe. Containing Bradley will be a key to the game and I expect that Tre Jones will get the primary assignment to start the game.

If Duke can run Cal off the 3-point line, force turnovers, and grab the rebounds, I expect it will be a relatively relaxing affair. Hitting a few 3's here and there should help. Duke will have an advantage in being familiar with the environment at MSG. They also have talent and athleticism on their side. If Duke also hits a few 3's of their own, the score could balloon. Conversely, if the game is more of a halfcourt affair, things could get ugly. I expect that Duke will be able to assert their pressure on Cal as they lack a true point guard. The full court pressure should create the kind of easy looks that Duke needs to build a lead.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Logistically speaking, is this one of those 9pm starts that won't start til 9:40?

[summerwind03]

Logistically speaking, is this one of those 9pm starts that won't start til 9:40?

Yes.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Yes.

*Smacks his forehead*

Why do they bother with the lie?

[DukieInKansas]

Logistically speaking, is this one of those 9pm starts that won't start til 9:40?

That might make watching it live easier for me - going out for a birthday celebration and then back to my house for cake & ice cream & presents. If it was my birthday, I'd make them watch the Duke game but, since it isn't, the DVR is set. Set it for an extra hour so hope to get the whole game if it doesn't start on time.

Should I make a friendly wager with a high school friend that is a Cal Bear? :D

[Billy Dat]

I'll be at the game tonight, too. After market tickets are pretty cheap, not a lot of interest in the opening night of this event.


I would venture a guess that this board has never been this negative on a #1 Duke team.

Long time since we've been not great on offense. Tough to come around to appreciating a defense orientated team. But-- Go Duke!

There does seem to have been a recent drop off in posting activity on DBR. Have those tired of one-and-done roster turnover thrown in the towel? Is message board culture a big fat "Ok Boomer" to the reddit loving youth?

I think the lack of enthusiasm might be because folks have seen our team, don't see a well oiled machine, and write off our chances at a Final Four. But, they are missing the fact that the entire country is down this year. We may be a weak #1 based on historical standards, but we are firmly in the mix as of this writing. Our relatively weak offense is still, currently, a top 10 Ken Pom offense, with all caveats about early season Ken Pom ratings.


Let's play the better team! These seasons move fast and if want to be fully primed for ACC season, let's have a tougher test with Texas. We will grow from it. And if we lose and drop out of the top 5, who cares at this point? But first, Cal...

I think this will be a struggle and if we are able to win, I definitely want Georgetown because it has not been impressive while Texas has played well.

Line opened at Duke -19, up to -20 at one casino.

I, too, would like to win tonight and play Texas in the title game. Texas is solid, and we have some decent history with them over the past 15 years, including that NCAA game. I am sure they hate us after we stormed back in the PK80 two years ago and would like some payback.

It doesn't project as a struggle as arnie's post indicates, but DavidBenAkiva's excellent preview extoles their shooting as does...


Based on the team play so far, with a focus on defense and a relatively weak offense, we are in danger of upset by any team who can shoot well. Lets hope our defense can at least hold Cal's shooting down and that both Cassius and Matthewlast show more offense. Javin looks like he has regressed despite his solid athletic ability he is very foul prone and doesn't seem to be able to finish arounnd the rim. I had hopes for a step up by Alex in his junior year, but so far a big if is attached to his play. Wendell is a strong kid but appears quite raw. Joey can shoot but is behind in defense. Jack is a very good defender and rebounder but has lost any semblence of offensive contribution. Jordan is mmore of a backup PG and ball handler without much offensive potential. To date it looks like our best bet is to give Tre, Vernon, Cassius, Matthew and Jack the most minutes they can handle while subbing in the others. Hope the offensive light goes on for some of the guys soon.

So where is the rotation right now? I think Tre, Vernon and Cassius have shown the most consistency, even with Cassius coming off a sub par offensive game. Jack is coming on. I am guessing those 4 will start along with...

I'd say Hurt gets the start to see if he can effectively chase their bigs around the perimeter while also adding some scoring punch.

After that, it's a crap shoot. So, I am curious to see:

-Will Cassius maintain his current status as a starter and key cog with a solid showing in NY?
-Will Jack continue solid play and make a case as a consistent starter?
-Will Matthew Hurt play well enough on both ends to be a guy who can provide massive line-up flexibility?
-Who else wants to step up and start squeezing the other guys out for minutes...Javin, AOC, Baker
-I am with those who think Jordan will settle in as a situational specialist
-Depending on all of the above, will we see the emergence of Offense Lineups vs Defense Lineups depending on how the game is going, or will enough guys emerge as two way players that we settle on a consistent rotation?


...I had to go back and edit this because I forgot Wendell...and that is saying something, isn't it? I meant to have him in the list with Javin, AOC and Baker, but I think we all expected better. In so many ways, Cassius is what I expected of Wendell and vice versa. So..come on down Wendell. My money would be on you to emerge from the AOC/Baker pile but you have to make it happen.

[uh_no]

I'll be at the game tonight, too. After market tickets are pretty cheap, not a lot of interest in the opening night of this event.




There does seem to have been a recent drop off in posting activity on DBR. Have those tired of one-and-done roster turnover thrown in the towel? Is message board culture a big fat "Ok Boomer" to the reddit loving youth?

I think the lack of enthusiasm might be because folks have seen our team, don't see a well oiled machine, and write off our chances at a Final Four. But, they are missing the fact that the entire country is down this year. We may be a weak #1 based on historical standards, but we are firmly in the mix as of this writing. Our relatively weak offense is still, currently, a top 10 Ken Pom offense, with all caveats about early season Ken Pom ratings.





I, too, would like to win tonight and play Texas in the title game. Texas is solid, and we have some decent history with them over the past 15 years, including that NCAA game. I am sure they hate us after we stormed back in the PK80 two years ago and would like some payback.

It doesn't project as a struggle as arnie's post indicates, but DavidBenAkiva's excellent preview extoles their shooting as does...



So where is the rotation right now? I think Tre, Vernon and Cassius have shown the most consistency, even with Cassius coming off a sub par offensive game. Jack is coming on. I am guessing those 4 will start along with...

I'd say Hurt gets the start to see if he can effectively chase their bigs around the perimeter while also adding some scoring punch.

After that, it's a crap shoot. So, I am curious to see:

-Will Cassius maintain his current status as a starter and key cog with a solid showing in NY?
-Will Jack continue solid play and make a case as a consistent starter?
-Will Matthew Hurt play well enough on both ends to be a guy who can provide massive line-up flexibility?
-Who else wants to step up and start squeezing the other guys out for minutes...Javin, AOC, Baker
-I am with those who think Jordan will settle in as a situational specialist
-Depending on all of the above, will we see the emergence of Offense Lineups vs Defense Lineups depending on how the game is going, or will enough guys emerge as two way players that we settle on a consistent rotation?

coming off 2 years of teams loaded with NBA ready talent who lost devastatingly in the elite 8, I can understand it. We have a great class, sure, but none of these guys are going top 5 in the draft next year.

[Neals384]

Cal is 4-0, all at home.
[109] Pepperdine by 16
[160] UNLV in OT
[165] Cal Baptist by 4
[288] Prairie View by 4

Cal has 9 players averaging 10 minutes or more. The starters:

6'4" 220# So. G Matt Bradley: 20 pts, 4.8 boards, 2.5 assists.
6'3" Sr. G Kareem South: 11 pts
6'8" Jr. F Grant Anticevich 11 pts, 7 boards (from Australia)
7'0" 248# Fr. F Lars Theimann: 3 pts, 2 boards, 0.5 blocks in 15 min (from Germany)
6'2" Fr. G Joel Brown: 6 pts

Bench:
6'8" 255# So. F Andre Kelly: 9 pts, 6 boards, 24 min
6'0" Sr. G Paris Austin: 7 pts
6'6" Jr. G Juhwan Harris-Dyson: 5 pts
6'7" So. F Jacobi Gordon: 3 pts

Haven't seen them play, but looking at the weights for Bradley, Theimann and Kelly - they may be pretty slow - as confirmed by DBA's tempo stats. In the most recent game vs. PV, Cal had 22 turnovers. You can bet ball security is a coaching point of emphsis. But really, won't Duke's tenacity and quickness give them trouble?

Wonder if Bradley is kinda Harden-lite, bulling his way forward and expecting a call, or stepping back for a 3.

After playing 4 games at home, is Cal ready for a long trip and the big stage?

[Neals384]

I'll be at the game tonight, too. After market tickets are pretty cheap, not a lot of interest in the opening night of this event.

There does seem to have been a recent drop off in posting activity on DBR. Have those tired of one-and-done roster turnover thrown in the towel? Is message board culture a big fat "Ok Boomer" to the reddit loving youth?

I think the lack of enthusiasm might be because folks have seen our team, don't see a well oiled machine, and write off our chances at a Final Four. But, they are missing the fact that the entire country is down this year. We may be a weak #1 based on historical standards, but we are firmly in the mix as of this writing. Our relatively weak offense is still, currently, a top 10 Ken Pom offense, with all caveats about early season Ken Pom ratings.

<snip>



Definite drop-off of interest in my corner, but it has nothing to do with prospects for this year's team. This Duke squad impresses me with how hard they play, and how well they defend. I'm not writing them off as far as prospects for the season!

Why am I less excited? It's 100% Zion. We just had a season with the most amazing player, one we will never see again. We've been to the dance with <insert name of favorite fantasy dance partner> and now we're dancing with the kids on our block. Ain't fair to the guys on this year's team, all of whom are impressive.

[Billy Dat]

Definite drop-off of interest in my corner, but it has nothing to do with prospects for this year's team. This Duke squad impresses me with how hard they play, and how well they defend. I'm not writing them off as far as prospects for the season!

Why am I less excited? It's 100% Zion. We just had a season with the most amazing player, one we will never see again. We've been to the dance with <insert name of favorite fantasy dance partner> and now we're dancing with the kids on our block. Ain't fair to the guys on this year's team, all of whom are impressive.

How you gonna keep 'em down on the farm....

It reminds me of the 5 magic weeks I spent with Miss July 1996...wait, I just woke up. Mrs. Dat, I didn't mean it...

I hear you. Maybe it's a combo of one-and-done making a chunk of fans lose interest and one-and-Zion making another huge chunk lose interest. Throw in the calamity that is the majority of the football season and it's a toxic combo.

But, as long as K roams the sidelines, that should compel the majority.

It's Duke, it's MSG, let's do this!

[Indoor66]

My enthusiasm lag is directly related to my not having ACCN available to me.

[Billy Dat]

My enthusiasm lag is directly related to my not having ACCN available to me.

Ding, ding, ding...very good point and a huge contributor for many, I am sure.

[Rich]

My enthusiasm lag is directly related to my not having ACCN available to me.

You beat me to it. After a number of years of seeing practically every game, either on TV or on the interwebs, I feel shut out this year as a Comcast customer without access to ACCN. It's pretty sad, really, when you consider how many others are in the same boat.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

*cues his Colin Cowherd voice*

Cal - a sunny warm weather team coming EAST to the cold Big Apple? I'm putting all my money on Duke.

[MartyClark]

You beat me to it. After a number of years of seeing practically every game, either on TV or on the interwebs, I feel shut out this year as a Comcast customer without access to ACCN. It's pretty sad, really, when you consider how many others are in the same boat.

Same here. I feel like I don't know this team yet.

[UrinalCake]

I feel like there’s so much we don’t know about this team. Kansas has been our only “real” opponent, and that game was an anomaly in a lot of ways, being the first game of the season and having so many turnovers. So I think we’ll learn a lot over the next two days.

Given Cal’s ability to shoot the three and our inability to do so, I predict a tight game in which we feel like we’re in control but are unable to pull away until the end. Tied at halftime, final 73-65 Duke.

[uh_no]

I feel like there’s so much we don’t know about this team. Kansas has been our only “real” opponent, and that game was an anomaly in a lot of ways, being the first game of the season and having so many turnovers. So I think we’ll learn a lot over the next two days.

Given Cal’s ability to shoot the three and our inability to do so, I predict a tight game in which we feel like we’re in control but are unable to pull away until the end. Tied at halftime, final 73-65 Duke.

I'm interested to see how stanley responds after the poor outing last week against GaSt.

[ShaneRyan]

Cal *shouldn't* be able to hang with us, but like a lot of you I'm getting a weird feeling that it's going to be at least a little closer than anticipated. One thing I look forward to is seeing how our defense fares against team with 3-4 starters who can shoot the three. The Tre vs. Matt Bradley match-up should be fascinating too, hopefully in our favor. The other bad news about Cal is they like to play slowwww, but the good news is that so far they've turned the ball over a ton.

[CrazyNotCrazie]

My enthusiasm lag is directly related to my not having ACCN available to me.

I totally agree. Between not seeing the team much and there not being a lot of holdovers from last year (I'm really thankful for Tre!), I barely know this team. We were very spoiled last year and it will take a little while to bounce back from that.

I am looking forward to going to the game tomorrow - games at MSG are always fun. Tonight I will watch at home as the 9:30 tip is way too late for a work/school night. As others have noted, I have been getting a lot of e-mails and ads (ad targeting clearly works) trying to sell me tickets to this one - I'm surprised there isn't more demand as Duke is Duke plus Cal, Texas and Georgetown all have decent sized alumni bases in NY.

[tbyers11]

*Smacks his forehead*

Why do they bother with the lie?

ESPN officially lists it as a 9:30 pm start time. I was surprised and had to check to make sure 9:30 didn't mean 10pm.

[devildeac]

ESPN officially lists it as a 9:30 pm start time. I was surprised and had to check to make sure 9:30 didn't mean 10pm.

"30 minutes after conclusion of 5th set of random, poorly attended ACC volleyball match. Maybe."

[tbyers11]

"30 minutes after conclusion of 5th set of random, poorly attended ACC volleyball match. Maybe."

Except that tonight's game is on ESPN2 and not ACCN. But, otherwise the gripping 5th set action of the Pitt-BC volleyball match would take precedence.

[SkyBrickey]

I get the issue with Comcast and the ACCN. That really sucks.

But I enjoy the gritty, team-oriented approach of this year's team every bit as much as I enjoyed last year's OAD superstars.

The plot lines are different. Instead of "how many outrageous dunks will Zion have?", it's now "who will start?" and "can we take them out of their offense with our pressure?" and "who will knock down 3s for us?". It's not as exciting as last year, but I think it's a lot more interesting team - and one that should get a lot better as the year goes on and we work through our issues on offense.

We should enjoy every single week we are #1 in the country, because once the big K finally retires, our visits to #1 could become few and far between...

[Turk]

I'll be there too, hope the Devils break i open eaarly.

[ndkjr70]

I think it's a great topic and I think I agree with it -- I find myself less enthusiastic towards Duke because last year's team was the most fun I've had watching a sports team in my entire life, and was the most curhsingly gross I've ever felt after a loss. Emotional fatigue after back-to-back heartbreakers in the Elite-8 while memories of Grayson Allen's spectacular one-man-show in 2015 against Wisconsin is starting to fade away.

It's all relative, of course. I watch every game, on the edge of my seat. I yelled when they beat Kansas, and I'm sure I'll curse when they suffer their first loss. I'll definitely sweat bullets when we play Carolina and I'll definitely get overly emotional when we pull out big wins. But it just feels... different. It feels like being with your smokeshow of your girlfriend who broke your heart two years in a row. She's absolutely gorgeous and she promises to never break your heart again, but you know she probably will.

[devildeac]

Except that tonight's game is on ESPN2 and not ACCN. But, otherwise the gripping 5th set action of the Pitt-BC volleyball match would take precedence.

I stand corrected. :rolleyes:

[MChambers]

There does seem to have been a recent drop off in posting activity on DBR. Have those tired of one-and-done roster turnover thrown in the towel? Is message board culture a big fat "Ok Boomer" to the reddit loving youth?

I think the lack of enthusiasm might be because folks have seen our team, don't see a well oiled machine, and write off our chances at a Final Four. But, they are missing the fact that the entire country is down this year. We may be a weak #1 based on historical standards, but we are firmly in the mix as of this writing. Our relatively weak offense is still, currently, a top 10 Ken Pom offense, with all caveats about early season Ken Pom ratings.

Speaking only for myself, I'm definitely less invested in this team than in recent years, and far less invested than in teams in 1990s.

Part of it is definitely the roster turnover. Part is that, as you say, this team isn't a well-oiled machine.

I certainly agree that the entire country is down this year. But that just means that there are more teams that are almost unbearable to watch. The quality of college basketball has declined a lot in recent years. And the style of play for many teams resembles a visit to the dentist (I'm thinking of you, UVA).

Maybe my enthusiasm will grow as the season goes on.

[UrinalCake]

Interesting to me that for several years now we’ve had people say that bringing in wholesale OAD’s makes them feel less connected to the team. But now that we have a roster with a little bit of carryover, less elite individual talent and more team play, the complaint is that we aren’t as talented.

[flyingdutchdevil]

Interesting to me that for several years now we’ve had people say that bringing in wholesale OAD’s makes them feel less connected to the team. But now that we have a roster with a little bit of carryover, less elite individual talent and more team play, the complaint is that we aren’t as talented.

I don't know about the "carry over". We still start three frosh, a sophomore, and a junior who played less than the sophomore. Our "veterans" are said junior, 2 defensive-minded bigs who can't score, and a bunch of wings/guards who can't score.

This is still a freshman dominated team. I blame the lack of games on "normal" cable. I've watched 1 full game thus far; the ACCN has made it more difficult (but I can't blame ESPN; putting Duke games on the ACCN is a great way to make money. Go capitalism!).

[mark34]

You beat me to it. After a number of years of seeing practically every game, either on TV or on the interwebs, I feel shut out this year as a Comcast customer without access to ACCN. It's pretty sad, really, when you consider how many others are in the same boat.

It's well past time to ditch cable TV. YouTubeTV is, IMHO, the best bet. It does a great job of catching sports with unlimited "DVR". ACCN has been great on it (besides the first half of the last game).

[jimsumner]

Last year's team might have peaked in its first game. This year's team has a very real chance to get better and better and better.

Not sure why that wouldn't be a cool story to follow eludes me.

[DukieInKansas]

Interesting to me that for several years now we’ve had people say that bringing in wholesale OAD’s makes them feel less connected to the team. But now that we have a roster with a little bit of carryover, less elite individual talent and more team play, the complaint is that we aren’t as talented.

I'm really enjoying this year's team because, from my inexperienced/unknowledgable eye, we might not lose as many young players to the NBA. I'm so excited that Tre Jones is back and I hope we have a couple of this year's freshman class coming back next year.


Last year's team might have peaked in its first game. This year's team has a very real chance to get better and better and better.

Not sure why that wouldn't be a cool story to follow eludes me.


Yep, I'm going to enjoy watching this team learn and grow. Of course, I did pull the trigger and go to Spectrum from TWC legacy so I get to see the games. Interestingly enough, I was trying to find the KU game the other day and couldn't find it on TV - they are a 45 minute drive from my house.

[DavidBenAkiva]

Last year's team might have peaked in its first game. This year's team has a very real chance to get better and better and better.

Not sure why that wouldn't be a cool story to follow eludes me.

Counterpoint - the period between the two Virginia games was the pinnacle for Duke last year. They were nearly flawless in their execution and focus against UVA on two occasions. They looked head and shoulders above everyone else for that time. Then came the Zion injury against UNC and the team didn't quite recover.

[SkyBrickey]

Last year's team might have peaked in its first game. This year's team has a very real chance to get better and better and better.

Not sure why that wouldn't be a cool story to follow eludes me.

Amen.

A commitment to defense, willingness to share the ball, balanced scoring, and an offense that is rough but has a tantalizingly high ceiling.

What’s not to love?

And we aren’t talking about the 22nd ranked team in the country. We are #1!

If we eliminate some sloppy turnovers and improve our 3 point shooting, part of which is shot selection, a lot of fans are going to pile on this bandwagon.

[UrinalCake]

I don't know about the "carry over". We still start three frosh, a sophomore, and a junior who played less than the sophomore.... This is still a freshman dominated team.

I’m not saying we’re a mid-major, but the heart of our team is a sophomore who everybody knows very well, and we’re getting plenty of contributions from upperclassmen. That’s a lot different from starting four freshmen and playing almost no bench, as we’ve done the past two seasons. We don’t have to learn the whole team, we only need to learn like 60% of the team.

As for the ACCN, I agree that’s a real bummer that a number of fans don’t get it. On the positive side, the ratings for women’s volleyball have skyrocketed!

[ChillinDuke]

There should probably be a separate thread for "What's Your Interest Level in Duke this year?" But I'll give my $0.02 here for now.

Even I feel slightly less invested than I have in years past. I'm not exactly sure why. But I think a bit of it has to do with the new rule in CA, the Wiseman suspension and how Penny handled it, Jay Bilas' neverending soapbox rhetoric wearing me down, and just this general feeling that the game as I've known it for years is slowly slipping away from cultural relevance. I want to watch sports, not hear about how players should game the system to sit out and/or get paid. Like many things, it's gotten more political in the last few years and I'm just starting to wear down. Unfortunately, the avenues to simply watch a game while at the same time feeling connected to the world seem to have dramatically shrunk. Commentators and talking heads weigh in on every possible angle - often seemingly just trying to be as outrageous as possible. And watching a game on mute just feels like I've gone into hiding an addiction only to emerge 2 hours later.

Maybe I'm just hedging for the eventual day that the whole system just blows up. I dunno. Maybe I just woke up on the wrong side of the bed today. But one thing's for sure, it has very little to do with the actual team, outside of the Zion hangover.

- Chillin

[hallcity]

Don’t tell me jock itch is doing our game!

[Bluedog]

I'm excited that a game is finally on ESPN2! Yay! (Of course I watched the Kansas game as well.)

[dukelion]

Texas and Georgetown are pretty good teams.....either will give us all we can handle.

Can see why Coleman was high on Duke's list.....kid is a baller.

[Utley]

Utley in the house (or Garden anyway) :)).

[rocketeli]

When I was a kid I was a "Fever Pitch" type of Duke fan...listened to all the games on the radio, kept stats, and never lost hope that we would win all our games and all the players would be All-Americans. My interest in Duke basketball peaked in 1978. But I'm fairly interested in this year's team. Lot's of intriguing questions, gritty defense, story lines on individual players...and I could not care less if the fair weather, WalMart, only satisfied with a championship fans blow away in a puff of smoke.
FYI I found a magic thing called a mute button on my TV a few years ago, and now I am never troubled by annoying, ratchet-jawed, uniformed announcers. Give it a try! You'll be glad you did.

[dukelion]

I think it's a great topic and I think I agree with it -- I find myself less enthusiastic towards Duke because last year's team was the most fun I've had watching a sports team in my entire life, and was the most curhsingly gross I've ever felt after a loss. Emotional fatigue after back-to-back heartbreakers in the Elite-8 while memories of Grayson Allen's spectacular one-man-show in 2015 against Wisconsin is starting to fade away.

It's all relative, of course. I watch every game, on the edge of my seat. I yelled when they beat Kansas, and I'm sure I'll curse when they suffer their first loss. I'll definitely sweat bullets when we play Carolina and I'll definitely get overly emotional when we pull out big wins. But it just feels... different. It feels like being with your smokeshow of your girlfriend who broke your heart two years in a row. She's absolutely gorgeous and she promises to never break your heart again, but you know she probably will.

This sums up how I feel as well.........last few years were absolutely epic.

But this year's team has a ton of potential.....I would even say even more so than last year's squad.....I just think we have to get to know them a bit before I crank my emotions to eleven again......but pretty sure it'll happen soon enough.

[slower]

But this year's team has a ton of potential....I would even say even more so than last year's squad....

I'm sorry, but I can't let that pass unchallenged. That is pure nonsense.

[weezie]

...On the positive side, the ratings for women’s volleyball have skyrocketed!


:D:D:D U Cake with the badumpdump cymbal crash. lol

[dukelion]

I'm sorry, but I can't let that pass unchallenged. That is pure nonsense.

I call this the Zion effect.....meaning his brilliance blinded some to the many shortcomings of last years team (i.e. shooting, rebounding, depth).

We should have lost to UCF in round 2 for crying out loud. But I'm not surprised that many will canonize them as one of the best Duke teams ever while the results certainly don't support that.

And this also proves my point why enthusiasm is down this year.....some (many?) can't let go of last year's disappointment.

[DukieInBrasil]

I'm sorry, but I can't let that pass unchallenged. That is pure nonsense.

talent is different from potential. I'd be interested in knowing the perspective that generated the original comment, but i suspect i might agree with you. Hindsight is 20/20 and all, and it was common knowledge throughout the season that we were a poor 3pt shooting team. But this year's team is too, or at least it's too early to tell whether it'll be better considering that after 4 games the 3FG% is exactly the same as last year's team. This year's team might be better defensively, but last year's team was no slouch. I'm having a hard time thinking of something about this year's team that is so different from last year's team such that the potential is greater. This year's team has a bit more experience, and in particular has a So. PG who is stellar.
Perhaps the thing that undid some of last year's team's potential was the lack of diversity on offense? We didn't really have an low-block player and we couldn't shoot so that made it a lot easier for teams to defend us. And when teams figured out that they could foul Zion with impunity it put a further limit on the team's potential. This year's team could have greater diversity on offense. We've already seen that Carey can play down low pretty well, and that Hurt has the potential to score at all levels. I'd be hesitant to stake much to the claim that this team has more potential based on the offense we've seen thus far this year vs what we saw last year. However, if Tre figures out how to grow from Pebbles to Stones, as he did vs GA St., then that might change the whole equation!!!

[-jk]

DBR Chat (http://forums.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/misc.php?do=cchatbox) is open!

If it gets a bit slow, refresh the page. If you're on a mobile device, you'll need to select "Blue" at the bottom.

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As always - please follow the DBR Posting Guidelines.

Let's Go Duke!

-jk

[slower]

talent is different from potential.

Pretty sure that potential is somewhat dependent upon talent

[duke4ever19]

Interesting to me that for several years now we’ve had people say that bringing in wholesale OAD’s makes them feel less connected to the team. But now that we have a roster with a little bit of carryover, less elite individual talent and more team play, the complaint is that we aren’t as talented.

You only find a contradiction when you take too literally the complaint about 'no carryover' by pointing to Justin Robinson and saying, "See? He's back. There's your carryover. In fact, here's yet another bench player back for another season. So why are you complaining about no carryover?"

[Billy Dat]

Georgetown is tough! The backcourt is really strong led by McClung and Akinjo. Akinjo is like an old school hard nosed Big East PG. They have all kinds of length and athleticism, shot blocking, etc.

Duke just took the floor for warm ups getting plenty of boos.

[roywhite]

I call this the Zion effect....meaning his brilliance blinded some to the many shortcomings of last years team (i.e. shooting, rebounding, depth).

We should have lost to UCF in round 2 for crying out loud. But I'm not surprised that many will canonize them as one of the best Duke teams ever while the results certainly don't support that.

And this also proves my point why enthusiasm is down this year....some (many?) can't let go of last year's disappointment.

Yeah, my take on last year's team (after loving so many of the things they did and marveling at the star power) was they faced 3 teams (varying from good to very good) in the NCAA tournament who gave them VERY tough games; Duke squeaked through twice, and lost the third one. Teams learned how to defend Duke, and the Blue Devils ultimately weren't up to winning a regional championship.

I like this year's team a lot and believe they have a good chance to advance to the Final Four. One factor in some lagging enthusiasm is just how early the season starts. November to April is a long journey.

[Billy Dat]

Wendell announced as a starter with Tre, Cassius, Vernon and Hurt. That is a big surprise.

Is this the first 4 freshman starters line-up of the year? I think it is.

[ChrisP]

Offense PAINFUL to watch thus far...yikes

[ShaneRyan]

Defense is great.

Offense is [censored for language, imagery]

[AGDukesky]

Basically dominating every aspect of the game except shooting. This team is painful to watch on offense. Thank you Carey for coming to play!

[arnie]

Offense PAINFUL to watch thus far...yikes

Except for Carey, what offense?

[chrishoke]

This may be thee worst shooting duke team since the 70's.

[Billy Dat]

No rotation yet.....

[arnie]

This may be thee worst shooting duke team since the 70's.

Think I spotted Roper on the bench calling out offensive sets.

[ChrisP]

This may be thee worst shooting duke team since the 70's.

Oh no, that's what caused my dad to give up his seats in Cameron - DOH!!!

[jipops]

I know this team can’t shoot, but it’s a bit alarming how unprepared this team looks in facing a zone. Is K running anything anymore?

[rsvman]

I mentioned after the last game that AOC's shot looked tentative.
I hope he doesn't go into a slump. We need him to shoot confidently.

[jipops]

Yes speed this game up. Playing halfcourt is not a good option for us. Plus, it doesn’t appear K has any idea what to run.

[AGDukesky]

Better. We are hustling our butts and getting some bad breaks.

[mattyoung18]

Speaking only for myself, I'm definitely less invested in this team than in recent years, and far less invested than in teams in 1990s.

Part of it is definitely the roster turnover. Part is that, as you say, this team isn't a well-oiled machine.

I certainly agree that the entire country is down this year. But that just means that there are more teams that are almost unbearable to watch. The quality of college basketball has declined a lot in recent years. And the style of play for many teams resembles a visit to the dentist (I'm thinking of you, UVA).

Maybe my enthusiasm will grow as the season goes on.its hard to get behind a team where the players are only there for around 5 months.I am not into basketball anymore with the one and dones.Dare I say I peek in at NBA games now for a few more minutes.I never did that 10 years ago.

[AGDukesky]

How good has Carey been?!

[AGDukesky]

Hurt on the other hand...

[phaedrus]

I'm not quite prepared to contend that Tre Jones is an all-time great Duke passer, but I am struggling to think of the last player who, every once in a while, made the perfect, thread-the-needle, didn't-even-know-that guy-was-open kind of pass that Jones makes.

[Billy Dat]

The defense has been really really solid, they aren’t getting 3s.

Offense is Carey and then...nothing that seems to be deliberate.

Glad K is keeping Vernon from getting foul 2.

[ndkjr70]

Anyone else see RJ Barrett help pick Tre Jones up off the floor?

[AGDukesky]

Moore is having a nice start as well

[arnie]

The defense has been really really solid, they aren’t getting 3s.

Offense is Carey and then...nothing that seems to be deliberate.

Glad K is keeping Vernon from getting foul 2.

I’d call our D sensational so far. Helps our O with the fasts breaks.

[Billy Dat]

This defense is a real demoralizing weapon.

[dukelion]

Maybe Tre can shoot the three consistently?

[mattyoung18]

Yep RJ was out there picking up Stanley I think.It doesnt help college basketball with tv announcers like Dakich and Bilas.Those 2 almost make me miss Dickie V.

[Dub]

Carey is balling and it’s soooo smooth. Currently it’s Carey: 21 - Cal: 21.

[jipops]

How good has Carey been?!

He is very comfortable in these lights. His game has just been fantastic so far. Just on another level than everybody else out there.

[BigZ]

Lol at the announcer trashing Paul George

[ndkjr70]

Potential to be one of the ugliest offensive teams we’ve seen in the last two decades. Potential to be one of the best defensive teams I’ve seen in my life.

Defense plays in March.

[Billy Dat]

He is very comfortable in these lights. His game has just been fantastic so far. Just on another level than everybody else out there.

We see you Vernon!!!

He is much better than I thought he was going to be, and I expected him to start and be important. You can see his confidence growing game by game on both ends.

[robed deity]

Great first half from Carey. I'm not ready to call him KAT though. Keep this team under the radar, Seth! I like it better that way.

[jwillfan]

Anyone else see RJ Barrett help pick Tre Jones up off the floor?

I spotted that - was great!

[SkyBrickey]

Moore must have had a good week of practice. He had a good half. Carey? Wow.

[dukelion]

Vernon is a beast.......a more athletic and skilled Okafor?

[Owen Meany]

Saw criticism of Dakich. I have never,ever heard him say such positive things about Duke. I had to check to be sure it was actually him. I'll take it while it lasts.

Nice to see Carey look so good so soon. I don't understand why he's not higher on draft boards.

[whereinthehellami]

Carey playing quick tonight. He should demand the ball in the 2nd half, don't settle. He should go for at least 30.

Not impressed with Cal at all. Slow and not much skill.

Gtown will be interesting, they are long and athletic. They will be driving Duke relentlessly, should be a good test.

[AGDukesky]

Just need to get AOC and Hurt going in the second half, but the rest of the team have all had good moments. Carey was amazing. Tre forced a couple of shots but otherwise was great. Moore was really good and looked much more like the player I was hoping to see. Jack hit a 3 and was his usual pest on defense and rebounded well. Javin looked much better and Stanley hit a 3 plus was disruptive on D. I thought Baker looked like he belonged but had a couple of unfortunate plays.

[Crisker]

Vernon is a beast....a more athletic and skilled Okafor?
We can hope -- this is Carey's coming out party. I'm impressed.

[CoachJ10]

Can’t stop, won’t stop. He just makes your ears hurt.

[Dub]

Vernon is a beast....a more athletic and skilled Okafor?

Lol no. Jah offensively was as consistent as any big man in Duke history and was a walking 20 points in his only year at Duke. Jah was the 3rd overall pick and has unfortunately got lost in a changing NBA.

I would say Carey has higher upside in today’s NBA for sure and is wayyy better defensively at this point.

[SavDukeGrad]

Saw criticism of Dakich. I have never,ever heard him say such positive things about Duke. I had to check to be sure it was actually him. I'll take it while it lasts.

Nice to see Carey look so good so soon. I don't understand why he's not higher on draft boards.

I agree about Dakich. I didn’t believe it was really him when I heard the positivity. Remember he called Marvin Bagley selfish when doing the Duke game at Va Tech 2 years ago.

[AGDukesky]

Lol no. Jah offensively was as consistent as any big man in Duke history and was a walking 20 points in his only year at Duke. Jah was the 3rd overall pick and has unfortunately got lost in a changing NBA.

I would say Carey has higher upside in today’s NBA for sure and is wayyy better defensively at this point.

Jah was crazy good down low but Carey is much better defensively and is a better rebounder plus can hit 3s. I’m guessing we won’t see any threads started about the team being better with Carey out of the lineup...

[CrazyNotCrazie]

Love Carey's game so far. Nice team defense. But the uniforms are killing me. I am going tomorrow night and I hope they choose another option.

[sagegrouse]

Half-time entertainment. This is the third version of the Garden. The first really was on Madison Square.

I remember when this version had the grand opening. It was 1966 I believe (I refuse to look it up). Bob Hope was the emcee and there was much singing and merriment. At the end they brought out a boxing ring. Bob Hope came out in trunks and no shirt (he was a former pro boxer -- Packy East). He ended up clowning around and dancing with someone. Then he introduced former heavyweight champs Jack Dempsey and Rocky Marciano. They were having a feud about something, but they ended up dancing together at the close of the show.

Blah, blah, blah... thanks for your patience.

[ShaneRyan]

The lack of continuation in college is terrible. There's no reason that shot by Carey shouldn't have counted.

[Billy Dat]

Our D is lacking to start the second half. Let’s get back after it.

[ndkjr70]

So this court is being used for one thing: college basketball games. Two today. Two tomorrow.

The knicks won’t use it. There’s no NBA players that will step on this court.

Why the BLEEP do you make it confusing and paint that extra line?

[fuse]

Is Vernon auditioning for the Knicks?
Wow what a show he is putting on. Clearly he likes the Garden.

[Billy Dat]

Glad we quickly got back to better play on both ends. If Vernon keeps scoring and we stay up, does K let him try and go for a huge night?

[Bluedog]

The other thing about Carey that is highly unusual is the fact that he NEVER gets frustrated about anything. Or too excited either. He's just always cool as a cucumber. I like that personally.

[Stray Gator]

So this court is being used for one thing: college basketball games. Two today. Two tomorrow.

The knicks won’t use it. There’s no NBA players that will step on this court.

Why the BLEEP do you make it confusing and paint that extra line?

To provide a convenient reference point for the 41 NBA scouts who are in attendance and evaluating the potential of the talent on the floor.

[Billy Dat]

Bagley and Giles here, too.

[fuse]

First game, I thought Stanley might be the second coming of Ricky Price.
He’s way more uh oh Maggette-oh.

[AGDukesky]

I would like to see some more players score. AOC looks bad and so does Hurt.

[Billy Dat]

Will that slam serve as a laxative for Alex’s constipation?

[AGDukesky]

Okay AOC I see you!

[ndkjr70]

Anyone know what the pat on the head thing the bench was doing? After that AOC slam MB3 Giles and RJ Barrett just all did it too

[hallcity]

So what does the pat on the head mean, apart from a shot clock violation?

[duketaylor]

Stray, where'd u come up with this number? I counted 52.

[ndkjr70]

The Yankees this season would put up 4 fingers as a hit, sort of like saying “ya should’ve walked me instead”. I wonder if the tap on the head is sort of like saying “you guys need a timeout after that”?

[Stray Gator]

Stray, where'd u come up with this number? I counted 52.

I thought I heard the announcers use that figure early in the telecast; I certainly can't attest to its accuracy, though.

[Bluedog]

I know some dislike Dakich but compared to the other ESPN commentators like Bilas, give me Dakich every day of the week and twice on Sunday. Much more pleasant to listen to and even cracked a few good jokes if you ask me. Bilas, Vitale, Elmore, etc. are insufferable sometimes.

[ndkjr70]

If Dakich is usually a D or an F color guy, he gets an A from me tonight.

[Bluedog]

Although they clearly know nothing about Goldwire..."Talented and athletic guy that just needs to earn the coaching staff's trust"...uh, I'm pretty sure Coach K has shown a lot of trust in Goldwire already way before most did. And I would not call him naturally super talented (when compared to other Duke players). He was a three star recruit. It's his grit and tenacity. Odd statements..oh well. Go Duke!

[GGLC]

Dakich has been great; really enjoyable.

[hibby91]

Other than J Rob, we don’t have a drop off for mop up time. That is a little unusual. It gives us an opportunity to get someone going that may play a big role in the next game.

[quahog174]

Announcers comment that Savarino will redshirt.

[sagegrouse]

So this court is being used for one thing: college basketball games. Two today. Two tomorrow.

The knicks won’t use it. There’s no NBA players that will step on this court.

Why the BLEEP do you make it confusing and paint that extra line?

You are probably right, but I thought there was widespread use of customizable panels (jigsaw puzzle pieces) on hoops courts. Is that wrong?

[CoachJ10]

Although they clearly know nothing about Goldwire..."Talented and athletic guy that just needs to earn the coaching staff's trust"...uh, I'm pretty sure Coach K has shown a lot of trust in Goldwire already way before most did. And I would not call him naturally super talented (when compared to other Duke players). He was a three star recruit. It's his grit and tenacity. Odd statements..oh well. Go Duke!

This is exactly why Dakich rubs me the wrong way. Don’t run your mouth about things you clearly know nothing about...with high conviction to boot. Especially ones that just are silly to people who know otherwise. Also...you know he’s the kind of guy, that no matter the situation, will come over and tell you “THIS is how you do this”.

[MaxAMillion]

If Dakich is usually a D or an F color guy, he gets an A from me tonight.

I didn’t watch tonight, but Dakich has flat out trashed Duke in the past. He was doing a summer league game this summer that Grayson Allen was in, and he spent the entire first half ripping Duke. I can’t stand that guy.