FB: Duke 27, Miami 17

[jimsumner]

ACC press release

CC Announces Football Game Times & Networks for November 29-30

GREENSBORO, N.C. (theACC.com) – The Atlantic Coast Conference announced the following football game times and networks for Nov. 29-30.

Friday, Nov. 29
Virginia Tech at Virginia, Noon, ABC

Saturday, Nov. 30
Clemson at South Carolina, Noon, ESPN
Georgia at Georgia Tech, Noon, ABC
Louisville at Kentucky, Noon, SECN – previously announced
Wake Forest at Syracuse, 12:30 p.m., RSN
Boston College at Pitt, 3:30 p.m., ESPN, ESPN2, or ACC Network – network designation after the games of Nov. 23
Miami at Duke, 3:30 p.m., ESPN, ESPN2, or ACC Network – network designation after the games of Nov. 23
North Carolina at NC State, 7 p.m., ACCN
Florida State at Florida, 7:30 p.m., SECN

[chrishoke]

Senior day!

[HereBeforeCoachK]

Senior day!

Didn't exactly shine on Senior Day last season......to put it mildly.

[CameronBornAndBred]

Surprised at the 3:30 KO, Bob Green will undoubtedly be happy. (I know I am)

[devildeac]

Surprised at the 3:30 KO, Bob Green will undoubtedly be happy. (I know I am)

A pleasing time for a 11/30 KO. We can leave the NC mountains in the AM and be at tailgate in time for Costcos, other grilled non-vegetarian delights and thirst-quenching hand-crafted ales.

[jimsumner]

Thanksgiving weekend means lots of empty seats.

[CameronBornAndBred]

Thanksgiving weekend means lots of empty seats.

We promise, we are NOT serving leftovers at our tailgate. (In fact, we've already decided on it and promise it will be fun and different.)

[HereBeforeCoachK]

Thanksgiving weekend means lots of empty seats.

...and that worked out so well for us last season......(as an aside, I believe that the empty stadium for senior day flattened our guys out versus WFU. I think it does quite often. There's a reason Duke's a better road team).

[devildeac]

We promise, we are NOT serving leftovers at our tailgate. (In fact, we've already decided on it and promise it will be fun and different.)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z0YIJQ1jgEI

[jimsumner]

...and that worked out so well for us last season...(as an aside, I believe that the empty stadium for senior day flattened our guys out versus WFU. I think it does quite often. There's a reason Duke's a better road team).

It's not confined to Duke. Private schools as a rule do not care for hosting on Thanksgiving weekend. Your fan base is too scattered. A large state-supported school generally has students, alums and subway alums who live within reasonable driving distance of their school. That's just not the case with a private school, with a smaller, more geographically dispersed fan base.

[HereBeforeCoachK]

It's not confined to Duke. Private schools as a rule do not care for hosting on Thanksgiving weekend. Your fan base is too scattered. A large state-supported school generally has students, alums and subway alums who live within reasonable driving distance of their school. That's just not the case with a private school, with a smaller, more geographically dispersed fan base.

Oh I agree with this.....and Miami is also a private school, so someone had to host...

[awhom111]

Process of elimination has our game on ESPN2.

[TruBlu]

I will be in the midwest visiting granddaughters. This accomplishes two things:

1) Spending time with 4 princesses.
2) Not being tempted to go to the game.

Note to Refs: This is Thanksgiving . . . NOT Halloween! No need for tricks this time!:mad:

[CameronBlue]

Thanksgiving weekend means lots of empty seats.

I thought Thanksgiving came only once a year?

[duke2x]

...and that worked out so well for us last season...(as an aside, I believe that the empty stadium for senior day flattened our guys out versus WFU. I think it does quite often. There's a reason Duke's a better road team).

I went to Wake last night. Much like the Caldwell era, I was one of the 2,000 people there in weather conditions similar to Wake 2018. That excuse holds zero water (insert pun of your choice.) I am also not expecting the game to be competitive.

[budwom]

I went to Wake last night. Much like the Caldwell era, I was one of the 2,000 people there in weather conditions similar to Wake 2018. That excuse holds zero water (insert pun of your choice.) I am also not expecting the game to be competitive.

Your expectations appear to be highly realistic...

[Acymetric]

Your expectations appear to be highly realistic...

I've been trying to avoid making snarky comments about that lame excuse since just before the Wake game started yesterday. I've been... mostly successful except for this post and one in the Wake thread part way through the game.

[HereBeforeCoachK]

I went to Wake last night. Much like the Caldwell era, I was one of the 2,000 people there in weather conditions similar to Wake 2018. That excuse holds zero water (insert pun of your choice.) I am also not expecting the game to be competitive.

You can preach about excuse all you want, but that doesn't matter. It was clearly a factor IMO....so whether it's excusable or not, or somewhere in between, is not the point. The point is, it hurt us in that game and it is killing recruiting. Period. Shrink the stadium seating. Shrink the security nightmare. Have the band play between plays like the SEC bands do. Have some creativity on offense. Etc.

[Bob Green]

Miami is a 6 points favorite in early betting lines.

[Reilly]

Miami is a 6 points favorite in early betting lines.

And #40 Miami is 5.88 points better than #75 Duke in the SRS: https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/years/2019-ratings.html

[arnie]

Miami is a 6 points favorite in early betting lines.

Miami has problems, but Defense is not one of them. During Franks/Roof we used to bet on which quarter do we cross the 50. Vegas doesn’t have over/under for this, but might be looking at 3rd quarter.

[HereBeforeCoachK]

Miami has problems, but Defense is not one of them. During Franks/Roof we used to bet on which quarter do we cross the 50. Vegas doesn’t have over/under for this, but might be looking at 3rd quarter.

Maybe we could let Miami move the ball into FG position, and let them get 3, then kick to Philyaw - Johnson.....trade them 7 for 3....

[CameronBornAndBred]

For those heading to the game that would like to come join us at our tailgate in closing out the season, we are escaping the turkey and trimmings with a pasta send off to 2019.

Here's our menu (so far...and subject to edit).

http://crazietalk.net/ourhouse/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5982

[Reilly]

Per espn fpi, #33 Miami is 9 points better than #67 Duke and Duke has a 32.8% chance of victory.

In constituent part efficiencies (don't know how calculated), Duke's O is 111th, D is 38th, and kicking teams 5th.

http://www.espn.com/college-football/statistics/teamratings

In the SRS, our Osrs is 90th and our Dsrs is 56th; our offensive yds per play is 118th and our D's is 49th.

https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/years/2019-ratings.html

[Reilly]

Miami (3-13)

1976 A W 20-7
1983 H L 17-56
2005 A L 7-52
2006 H L 15-20
2007 A L 14-24
2008 H L 31-49
2009 A L 16-34
2010 H L 13-28
2011 A L 14-49
2012 H L 45-52
2013 H W 48-30
2014 A L 10-22
2015 H L 27-30*
2016 A L 21-40
2017 H L 6-31
2018 A W 20-12

Someone should write a pithy, factual summary of the 2015 debacle -- what exactly went wrong (and in what specific ways) and the fallout (ref suspensions, etc ...). Just to have as a handy reference. The greatest sports injustice I can recall.

[Reilly]

Duke's seniors

11 Tim Skapek K 5-8 180 Sr. Dallas, Texas / St. Mark's School of Texas
16 Dylan Singleton S 5-11 180 Sr. Dacula, Ga. / Archer
47 Ryan Wolitzer RB 5-9 180 Sr. Purchase, N.Y. / Rye Country Day
49 Koby Quansah LB 6-1 230 Sr. Manchester, Conn. / Kingswood Oxford
53 Scott Jones DE 6-3 230 Sr. Newport News, Va. / Hampton Roads Academy
59 Tre Hornbuckle DE 6-4 255 Sr. Murray, Ky. / Murray
60 Noah Waddell DT 6-3 225 Sr. Medina, Ohio / St. Edward
62 Lee Rodio LS 5-10 205 Sr. Durham, N.C. / Northern
65 Julian Santos OG 6-3 325 Sr. East Lake, Fla. / East Lake
18 Quentin Harris QB 6-1 200 R-Sr. Wilton, Conn. / Taft School
45 Austin Parker P 6-1 190 R-Sr. Mount Pleasant, N.C. / Mount Pleasant
69 Zach Baker OG 6-4 315 R-Sr. Green Cove Springs, Fla. / Clay
81 Aaron Young WR 6-4 210 R-Sr. Murrieta, Calif. / Murrieta Valley
92 Edgar Cerenord DT 6-1 305 R-Sr. Miami, Fla. / American Heritage
95 Trevon McSwain DT 6-6 285 R-Sr. Suwanee, Ga. / Lambert

Duke's RS-JRs

2 Javon Jackson S 5-11 190 R-Jr. Tyrone, Ga. / Sandy Creek
4 Myles Hudzick S 5-10 170 R-Jr. Reston, Va. / Bishop O'Connell
8 Brittain Brown RB 6-1 205 R-Jr. Canton, Ga. / Cherokee
11 Scott Bracey WR 6-2 210 R-Jr. Richmond, Va. / Benedictine
28 Mark Gilbert CB 6-1 175 R-Jr. Fayetteville, N.C. / Terry Sanford
32 Brandon Hill LB 6-3 235 R-Jr. Orangeburg, S.C. / Heathwood Hall Episcopal
35 Antone Williams S 5-11 180 R-Jr. Atlanta, Ga. / Woodward Academy
36 Elijah Deveaux RB 6-0 215 R-Jr. Waxhaw, N.C. / Charlotte Christian
40 Jacob Morgenstern LB 6-4 210 R-Jr. Lagrange, N.Y. / St. Luke's School [Conn.]
41 Xander Gagnon LB 6-3 235 R-Jr. Charlotte, N.C. / Charlotte Catholic
48 AJ Reed K 5-11 185 R-Jr. Prattville, Ala. / Prattville
50 Jack Wohlabaugh C 6-4 305 R-Jr. Akron, Ohio / Walsh Jesuit
58 Ben Wyatt LS 6-1 220 R-Jr. Davidson, N.C. / Cannon School
66 Jaylen Miller OT 6-3 315 R-Jr. Jacksonville, Fla. / Providence
75 Liam Smith C 6-4 270 R-Jr. Little Silver, N.J. / Red Bank Catholic
77 Robert Kraeling OT 6-7 300 R-Jr. Bishop, Ga. / Prince Avenue Christian
89 Mark Birmingham TE 6-4 250 R-Jr. Ashburn, Va. / Briar Woods

[Devilwin]

Miami (3-13)

1976 A W 20-7
1983 H L 17-56
2005 A L 7-52
2006 H L 15-20
2007 A L 14-24
2008 H L 31-49
2009 A L 16-34
2010 H L 13-28
2011 A L 14-49
2012 H L 45-52
2013 H W 48-30
2014 A L 10-22
2015 H L 27-30*
2016 A L 21-40
2017 H L 6-31
2018 A W 20-12

Someone should write a pithy, factual summary of the 2015 debacle -- what exactly went wrong (and in what specific ways) and the fallout (ref suspensions, etc ...). Just to have as a handy reference. The greatest sports injustice I can recall.
This should inspire them.
https://mashable.com/2015/11/02/miami-touchdown-duke/

[Devilwin]

Just beat them, then chant "2015! 2015! Right in their snarky faces!

[devildeac]

Miami (3-13)

1976 A W 20-7
1983 H L 17-56
2005 A L 7-52
2006 H L 15-20
2007 A L 14-24
2008 H L 31-49
2009 A L 16-34
2010 H L 13-28
2011 A L 14-49
2012 H L 45-52
2013 H W 48-30
2014 A L 10-22
2015 H L 27-30*
2016 A L 21-40
2017 H L 6-31
2018 A W 20-12

Someone should write a pithy, factual summary of the 2015 debacle -- what exactly went wrong (and in what specific ways) and the fallout (ref suspensions, etc ...). Just to have as a handy reference. The greatest sports injustice I can recall.

Not needed. Couldn't post photo.


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CSs3oYtWoAA2Uxw?format=jpg&name=small

Here's my simple summary:

Knee. Was. Down.

If you want to embellish a bit more:

Block(s) in the back (3, maybe 4) is NOT a reviewable penalty.

[Natty_B]

From Stewart Mandel in The Athletic:

“There are currently 73 eligible teams for 78 spots. I have exactly five — Liberty, Michigan State, North Carolina, Ohio and TCU — joining the pool this weekend. Should there be a shortage, Duke (4-7), Boston College (5-6), Middle Tennessee (4-7) and Ole Miss (4-7) would be next in line based on their latest APR scores.”

So you’re telling me there is still a chance!

[Acymetric]

From Stewart Mandel in The Athletic:

“There are currently 73 eligible teams for 78 spots. I have exactly five — Liberty, Michigan State, North Carolina, Ohio and TCU — joining the pool this weekend. Should there be a shortage, Duke (4-7), Boston College (5-6), Middle Tennessee (4-7) and Ole Miss (4-7) would be next in line based on their latest APR scores.”

So you’re telling me there is still a chance!

FWIW...Jerry Palm disagrees and says there are currently 72 eligible teams. Not sure what the discrepancy is.

https://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/college-football-bowl-projections-team-eligibility-tracker-for-2019-20-bowl-games/

[Devilwin]

If all those teams lose, and we impress someone by beating Miami 100 to 0, maybe, just maybe we sneak in..

[arnie]

From Stewart Mandel in The Athletic:

“There are currently 73 eligible teams for 78 spots. I have exactly five — Liberty, Michigan State, North Carolina, Ohio and TCU — joining the pool this weekend. Should there be a shortage, Duke (4-7), Boston College (5-6), Middle Tennessee (4-7) and Ole Miss (4-7) would be next in line based on their latest APR scores.”

So you’re telling me there is still a chance!

Looks like we have multiple reasons for pulling against the Cheats this weekend.

[Natty_B]

Missouri bowl ban upheld. Increases chance a 5-7 team makes a bowl.

[OldPhiKap]

Looks like we have multiple reasons for pulling against the Cheats this weekend.

Amen, brother. Preach.

[Acymetric]

Looks like we have multiple reasons for pulling against the Cheats this weekend.


Amen, brother. Preach.

Is infinity+1 reasons more than just infinity reasons, or are they both just infinity?

[budwom]

Just saw that one of our few bright lights on the football field, kicker AJ Reed, has chosen to graduate and leave the program...might he kick elsewhere next year? He's had a very solid season, one that few expected.
Bracey is also leaving town, though his production never remotely approached expectations. Best of luck to both of them.

[jimsumner]

If all those teams lose, and we impress someone by beating Miami 100 to 0, maybe, just maybe we sneak in..

Duke doesn't have to impress anyone. Their superlative APR will be the deciding factor. But Duke has to get to five.

[DDDuke]

It appears, after surveying multiple sources, that the prevailing view is that 72 teams are currently bowl eligible (the 72 teams listed in the link to Jerry Palm's article above). Because Stewart Mandel's article is behind a paywall, I can't figure out which team he's treating as the 73rd bowl-eligible team.

13 teams are one win away from bowl eligibility (BC, Cheats, Mich St, Neb, TCU, Kent St, Ohio, Colo, Ore St, Miss St, Troy, UL Monroe, Liberty). All of these teams are 5-6, except for Liberty, who is 6-5 but has two FCS wins, and therefore must win 7 games to be bowl eligible. This list excludes Missouri, who is 5-6 but just had its bowl ban upheld. It also excludes Army. As Palm points out in the linked article, Army is 5-6, must get to 7 wins to be bowl eligible (because it has two FCS wins), but plays a 13-game schedule, and therefore can get to 7-6 if it beats Hawaii this week and Navy on December 14, just 6 days before the first bowl games are scheduled to be played. It's hard to imagine that a bowl could hold out until December 14 to see if Army wins its 7th game (against what will likely be a 9-2 Navy team, no less).

So if we triumph this Saturday to go to 5-7, then we would be eligible for a bowl if fewer than 6 of the 13 teams listed above win this week.

Colorado, Oregon State, Troy, and UL Monroe are double-digit underdogs; Boston College (+9), Kent State (+5.5), and Nebraska (+5) are less-prohibitive underdogs. Michigan State, Liberty, Ohio, and TCU are double-digit favorites; the Cheats (-8) and Mississippi State (-3) are narrower favorites.

That means that we should be rooting for the following teams: Akron (tonight), Ole Miss (Thurs), Eastern Mich, Iowa, West Va., App State (all Fri), New Mexico State, Pitt, Maryland (blech), Oregon, NC State, Utah, and Louisiana (all Sat). If eight of those teams win . . . and if we take care of business against Miami . . . and if the Bowl Powers That Be do not hold out to see how Army fares in three weeks . . . then we would be bowl eligible, regardless of how impressive our victory of Miami is. (Whether we would accept a bowl bid, of course, is another story, and likely hinges on the timing in relation to exams.)

[OldPhiKap]

Is infinity+1 reasons more than just infinity reasons, or are they both just infinity?

My favorite math proof is that of infinity:

"For every X, there is an X+1"

So simple, yet so mind-blowing.

[luvdahops]

Just saw that one of our few bright lights on the football field, kicker AJ Reed, has chosen to graduate and leave the program...might he kick elsewhere next year? He's had a very solid season, one that few expected.
Bracey is also leaving town, though his production never remotely approached expectations. Best of luck to both of them.

Sorry to hear on both. Reed was rock solid this year, and arguably our offensive MVP, at least in conference play. And Bracey has had, while not exactly a breakthrough season, certainly a solid one that could have been something more than that with a more accurate QB and more imaginative play calling.

[Reilly]

Per wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019%E2%80%9320_NCAA_football_bowl_games


Number of bowl berths available: 78
Number of bowl–eligible teams: 73

Teams that must win their final game for bowl eligibility
ACC (2): Boston College, North Carolina
Big Ten (2): Michigan State, Nebraska
Big 12 (1): TCU
MAC (1): Kent State
Pac-12 (2): Colorado, Oregon State
SEC (1): Mississippi State
Sun Belt (2): Troy, UL Monroe
Independent (1): Liberty[b]

Per Vegasinsider: https://www.vegasinsider.com/college-football/teams/team-page.cfm/team/boston-college

MichSt -22
Liberty -14
TCU -13.5
UNC -9
MissSt -2.5
-----------------------
KentSt +4.5
Neb +5.5
BC +9
Troy +12.5
OrSt +19.5
LA-M +20
Colo +28.5

[du_bb1]

Forecast- cool-40's but hopefully dry, and the canes go down

[HereBeforeCoachK]

Forecast- cool-40's but hopefully dry, and the canes go down

Jim Cantore says that low humidity and cool temps take the strength out of hurricanes......

[du_bb1]

Jim Cantore says that low humidity and cool temps take the strength out of hurricanes...

Who would know better???

[chrishoke]

Nice Unis for Saturday.

https://twitter.com/DukeFOOTBALL/status/1200429208146567168

[Reilly]

Gameday Saturday. Go Devils.

[Devilwin]

Where is the game being telecast?

[Devilwin]

Looks like ESPN2..

[billwh]

Almost 10AM, and I'm trying to decide on whether to go to the game. My crew is not all that interested, given that its raining in Durham with a 70% chance to continue raining during game time. I might just go by myself... it is the last game. I sat through the Clemson game in the rain back when Spurrier won. Anybody else going?

[DU82]

Almost 10AM, and I'm trying to decide on whether to go to the game. My crew is not all that interested, given that its raining in Durham with a 70% chance to continue raining during game time. I might just go by myself... it is the last game. I sat through the Clemson game in the rain back when Spurrier won. Anybody else going?

The forecast went from rain starting early evening to starting mid-afternoon to the reality of raining early morning.

I’m like you, my crew is not going. I missed the Syracuse game because I was sick, and really shouldn’t go today, but I will show up, at least for a while.

[devildeac]

Almost 10AM, and I'm trying to decide on whether to go to the game. My crew is not all that interested, given that its raining in Durham with a 70% chance to continue raining during game time. I might just go by myself... it is the last game. I sat through the Clemson game in the rain back when Spurrier won. Anybody else going?


The forecast went from rain starting early evening to starting mid-afternoon to the reality of raining early morning.

I’m like you, my crew is not going. I missed the Syracuse game because I was sick, and really shouldn’t go today, but I will show up, at least for a while.

We'll be there about 115 PM for the Devil Walk at our usual location, The TB'CC tent, next to the Omegas. Not sure how long we'll stay when it's raining, 47 degrees and we've not played very good football for several weeks now. :(

Drop by and say hello.

[dukelifer]

Almost 10AM, and I'm trying to decide on whether to go to the game. My crew is not all that interested, given that its raining in Durham with a 70% chance to continue raining during game time. I might just go by myself... it is the last game. I sat through the Clemson game in the rain back when Spurrier won. Anybody else going?

I am guessing if you go- you may be able to sit in the best seats on the fields. Looks like a messy day out there today.

[billwh]

We have 6 seats, Section 6, row X (50 yard line). We have had these seats since 1981 (same with our Cameron seats). Man I hate missing this game ..... My crew is going to talk again at 2:15 and decide. Takes me about 30 minutes to get to Duke. We park in the Science Drive/751 parking lot. So easy to walk in at game time....

[Truth]

Updating @DukeChronicle, DUKE MUST WIN VS MIAMI and only 1 below can win:

3:30pm Michigan State -17.5 (MD)

3:30pm Boston College +8 (Pitt)

4:00pm Oregon State +20.5 (Oregon)

7:00pm North Carolina -6.5 (NC State)

7:30pm Colorado +28 (Utah)

7:30pm Lousiana-Monroe +21 (Louisiana)




That's quite a parlay to ask for... and I can't even begin to pull for Maryland... oomph.

[Bob Green]

Good article on front page:

https://www.dukebasketballreport.com/2019/11/30/20988869/duke-miami-what-david-cutcliffe-has-done-for-blue-devils-football

[BLPOG]

I'm about to buy a ticket for the game but I'm hoping to get one in the covered area due to the weather. Does anyone know which rows are covered?

[HereBeforeCoachK]

I'm about to buy a ticket for the game but I'm hoping to get one in the covered area due to the weather. Does anyone know which rows are covered?

Not nearly enough. Coulda woulda shoulda with the renovation.....

[BLPOG]

Not nearly enough. Coulda woulda shoulda with the renovation....

Yeah, I gave up and went with row B :)

[peloton]

Good article on front page:

https://www.dukebasketballreport.com/2019/11/30/20988869/duke-miami-what-david-cutcliffe-has-done-for-blue-devils-football

It is indeed, Bob - I feel the same way that JD does regarding David Cutcliffe.

Speaking of good articles - Steve Wiseman's in today's N&O is excellent (as usual). Here's the money quote...

"The good thing for Duke is if it can find a way to fix all the things it has done wrong during the five-game losing streak, it only has to do it in one game to have a chance to keep its season going.
It's a simple ask but, given how Duke has played the last five games, a tall one at the same time."

It's time to salvage some respect, (way past) time for the offense to step up to the plate, and beat the Canes!

[hallcity]

I'm about to buy a ticket for the game but I'm hoping to get one in the covered area due to the weather. Does anyone know which rows are covered?

The Duke ticket portal will tell you. In any case, they stop checking tickets early in the 1st quarter.

[kfan]

Updating @DukeChronicle, DUKE MUST WIN VS MIAMI and only 1 below can win:

3:30pm Michigan State -17.5 (MD)

3:30pm Boston College +8 (Pitt)

4:00pm Oregon State +20.5 (Oregon)

7:00pm North Carolina -6.5 (NC State)

7:30pm Colorado +28 (Utah)

7:30pm Lousiana-Monroe +21 (Louisiana)




That's quite a parlay to ask for... and I can't even begin to pull for Maryland... oomph.

Shouldn’t we add Liberty game and allow for two to win?

[luvdahops]

Nice Unis for Saturday.

https://twitter.com/DukeFOOTBALL/status/1200429208146567168

Would be perfect with the Iron Duke D in place of the cheesy script, but still the proper look generally for a home game

[sagegrouse]

Oops! In the preceding ESPN2 game, Purdue just scored a TD plus two-pointer to tie Indiana with 2:48 left in game.

[killerleft]

A bad cold will keep me away from Wallace Wade today. Well, that and some nasty looks from my wife when I said I thought I could handle it.:o

Let's Go Duke!

[Indoor66]

A bad cold will keep me away from Wallace Wade today. Well, that and some nasty looks from my wife when I said I thought I could handle it.:o

Let's Go Duke!

We've all heard that one before when talking about attending Duke Football. The old bad cold trick. 👿😡😎

[CameronBlue]

A bad cold will keep me away from Wallace Wade today. Well, that and some nasty looks from my wife when I said I thought I could handle it.:o

Let's Go Duke!

Hmmm. Disappointing. Thought you were a die-hard fan and today we may actually ground-truth that premise. Oh, another day maybe.

[DU82]

And the rain starts up again right at kickoff

[TheDevilMadeMeDoIt]

Why on first possession did we throw short of the sticks? Oh I forgot we ALWAYS throw short of the first down marker on third downs.

[BlueDevil16]

Penalty so it didn't matter but you can't be dropping things like that if you want to come close to winning.

[TheDevilMadeMeDoIt]

They gave us a short field and we come up empty, sort of a metaphor for this season.

[arnie]

Why on first possession did we throw short of the sticks? Oh I forgot we ALWAYS throw short of the first down marker on third downs.

Dropped TD pass and then missed FG after bad Miami punt gave us great starting position on Miami 38.

Hope for 0-0 going to OT, but time to watch Bama.

[peteandpete]

Worst spot ever!

[TheDevilMadeMeDoIt]

Holy crap, throw past the sticks!

[peteandpete]

Worst spot ever!

Nice throw short of the first down marker.....even shorter than usual.

[TheDevilMadeMeDoIt]

Worst spot ever!

Instant replay is a joke. Do away except when Coach asks for it.

[Devilwin]

Have they forgotten how to tackle?

[killerleft]

Did Miami just put the game out of reach? Hope not.

[arnie]

Have they forgotten how to tackle?

Or not realize on 4th and 1 an offensively challenged O might fake the punt. That very slow punter had 30 yards of open field when he took the snap with the entire Duke defense retreating. After great special teams, that fake punt only fooled Duke.

[arnie]

Or not realize on 4th and 1 an offensively challenged O might fake the punt. That very slow punter had 30 yards of open field when he took the snap with the entire Duke defense retreating. After great special teams, that fake punt only fooled Duke.

Offensive explosion by Duke. Didn’t think we’d score 10 today, much less 1st half.

[killerleft]

Great drive!

[uh_no]

Offensive explosion by Duke. Didn’t think we’d score 10 today, much less 1st half.

if we win this game, and end up missing a bowl because we pissed away so many earlier games, i'm going to be unhappy. I mean, thrilled that we won....but unhappy that we blew the opportunity to be better.

[TheDevilMadeMeDoIt]

Great response! Go Duke!

[bedeviled]

If anyone's interested in keeping @awhom111 company, he's in Chat with no one to talk to.

DBR Chat (http://forums.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/misc.php?do=cchatbox)

"If it gets a bit slow, refresh the page. If you're on a mobile device, you'll need to select "Blue" at the bottom.
If it's running too fast for you, you can always check out the chat archive to catch up.
As always - please follow the DBR Posting Guidelines."

[ndkjr70]

I get it that there’s bad weather, but what an absolutely abhorrent playing field. Unacceptable for a power-5 conference field; we’re at 4 (?) non contact injuries so far and counting.

For what it’s worth 23 on Miami, who’s been able to play a little bit, also needed to be helped off the field after pregame stretching.

[Devilwin]

If anyone's interested in keeping @awhom111 company, he's in Chat with no one to talk to.

DBR Chat (http://forums.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/misc.php?do=cchatbox)

"If it gets a bit slow, refresh the page. If you're on a mobile device, you'll need to select "Blue" at the bottom.
If it's running too fast for you, you can always check out the chat archive to catch up.
As always - please follow the DBR Posting Guidelines."

Where is it?

[msdukie]

I get it that there’s bad weather, but what an absolutely abhorrent playing field. Unacceptable for a power-5 conference field; we’re at 4 (?) non contact injuries so far and counting.

For what it’s worth 23 on Miami, who’s been able to play a little bit, also needed to be helped off the field after pregame stretching.

I hope you are aware that this field is about 10,000 times better than it was before the renovations.

[CameronBlue]

There's a lot about Duke football to gripe about but I thought improvements to the field put it in the top tier of playing surfaces in CFB. First I've heard about it being substandard.

[HereBeforeCoachK]

I hope you are aware that this field is about 10,000 times better than it was before the renovations.

Yes it is...it's one of the best, or prettiest, fields in the country. Unfortunately....vis a vis the rest of the renovations...oh never mind.

[hallcity]

I get it that there’s bad weather, but what an absolutely abhorrent playing field. Unacceptable for a power-5 conference field; we’re at 4 (?) non contact injuries so far and counting.

For what it’s worth 23 on Miami, who’s been able to play a little bit, also needed to be helped off the field after pregame stretching.

I don’t know why the announcers want to blame the Miami injuries on the field. For a rainy day, the field looks just fine to me. There aren’t any puddles. There aren’t any bare spots. Of course, you see cleat marks but you see that even on dry days. Don’t expect to see a bright green natural field in NC on November 30. Without dying the field, that’s impossible. It’s been cold here lately.

[ndkjr70]

Wasn’t aware that it was renovated. Since it may be confusing, I am a Miami alum. Active here because both of my parents went to Duke (they didn’t have my major!) but the opinion I’ve gotten from those around me who are big Duke fans are that this is a substandard playing surface; and the 5+ injuries in the first half seemed to corroborate that (potentially mis)information.

[CameronBlue]

Roper should be parking cars out in the parking lot.

[ndkjr70]

I don’t know why the announcers want to blame the Miami injuries on the field. For a rainy day, the field looks just fine to me. There aren’t any puddles. There aren’t any bare spots. Of course, you see cleat marks but you see that even on dry days. Don’t expect to see a bright green natural field in NC on November 30. Without dying the field, that’s impossible. It’s been cold here lately.

I am currently very wet so I do not hear the announcers ;)

[ndkjr70]

You guys are getting the pleasure of seeing the worst offensive line in the country go to work. 50 and 63 just blocked each other, which is... nice

[CameronBlue]

I am currently very wet so I do not hear the announcers ;)

Wave to the camera. I want proof of life.

[ndkjr70]

Wave to the camera. I want proof of life.

Waving. I’m the guy in the raincoat.

[HereBeforeCoachK]

I am currently very wet so I do not hear the announcers ;)

Drowned out by the loud crowd no doubt.

[HereBeforeCoachK]

I don’t know why the announcers want to blame the Miami injuries on the field. For a rainy day, the field looks just fine to me. There aren’t any puddles. There aren’t any bare spots. Of course, you see cleat marks but you see that even on dry days. Don’t expect to see a bright green natural field in NC on November 30. Without dying the field, that’s impossible. It’s been cold here lately.

Well Tar Hole Woody Junior Durham loves to zap Duke FB in every little subtle way possible.......that's the deal. Has he called it "Wallace Wade OUTDOOR Stadium" yet today?

[wavedukefan70s]

I don’t know why the announcers want to blame the Miami injuries on the field. For a rainy day, the field looks just fine to me. There aren’t any puddles. There aren’t any bare spots. Of course, you see cleat marks but you see that even on dry days. Don’t expect to see a bright green natural field in NC on November 30. Without dying the field, that’s impossible. It’s been cold here lately.

Football is ment to be played in all conditions.they baby highschool now by switching game days if it sprinkles.gate will be just as lousy on monday or thursday.
We only canceled because of hurricane this year.the way it should be .screw in your long cleats and play.

[OZZIE4DUKE]

The field has Prescription Athletic Turf and has great drainage. Injuries can’t be blamed on the field. It must be there shoes.

[DU82]

Wasn’t aware that it was renovated. Since it may be confusing, I am a Miami alum. Active here because both of my parents went to Duke (they didn’t have my major!) but the opinion I’ve gotten from those around me who are big Duke fans are that this is a substandard playing surface; and the 5+ injuries in the first half seemed to corroborate that (potentially mis)information.

The people around you don’t know what they’ve talking about. After the renovations it’s one of the best fields in the country. If the field caused the injuries, why aren’t any Duke players hurt? It would be roughly even.

During the hurricane games back a few years ago, compare our field to NC State’s field, the one with the Ag majors. Ours kept up much better.

You don’t see chunks coming up off the ground.

[TKG]

Well Tar Heel Woody Junior Durham loves to zap Duke FB in every little subtle way possible...that's the deal. Has he called it "Wallace Wade OUTDOOR Stadium" yet today?


And he is just one of the many reasons the ACCN will never be more than an arm of the cheats propaganda machine.

And I understand that the game is on the deuce

[75Crazie]

Any Miami fan complaining about today's field should be force-fed a viewing of last year's Duke/Miami game at Miami.

[arnie]

And he is just one of the many reasons the ACCN will never be more than an arm of the cheats propaganda machine.

And I understand that the game is on the deuce

Wes Durham is just awful. He’s called Deon Jackson, “Johnson’s” several times. He also “gives “ us 2 yards on carries, then usually its 2nd and 6. He’s extraordinarily boring to boot.

[hallcity]

The field has Prescription Athletic Turf and has great drainage. Injuries can’t be blamed on the field. It must be there shoes.

Has anyone noticed receivers or ball carriers unable to make cuts and falling down? If you see that, you can say the field conditions are a problem. I haven’t seen that.

[75Crazie]

Wes Durham is just awful. He’s called Deon Jackson, “Johnson’s” several times. He also “gives “ us 2 yards on carries, then usually its 2nd and 6. He’s extraordinarily boring to boot.
Like Daddy …

Listening to him brings back a lot of really horrible memories.

[TheDevilMadeMeDoIt]

Wasn’t aware that it was renovated. Since it may be confusing, I am a Miami alum. Active here because both of my parents went to Duke (they didn’t have my major!) but the opinion I’ve gotten from those around me who are big Duke fans are that this is a substandard playing surface; and the 5+ injuries in the first half seemed to corroborate that (potentially mis)information.

As I recall it’s the same field the Eagles play on. During the hurricane a few years ago it handled all the water. I believe it can drain 10 inches per hour. Nothing wrong with the field, just bad luck injuries.

[rtnorthrup]

These are two not very good football teams.

[ndkjr70]

Any Miami fan complaining about today's field should be force-fed a viewing of last year's Duke/Miami game at Miami.

I was at both games. Comparing the rain today to the rain last year is like comparing the sniffles to cancer.

[arnie]

Continually self destructing on D. Huge number of 3rd and very long have been converted by Miami - last one 3rd and 19 and we grab a face mask on nondescript run. D is actually dominating except for the huge breakdowns.

[TKG]

Like Daddy …

Listening to him brings back a lot of really horrible memories..

Both prove if you smooch the right fanny, lack of talent is not an impediment to your career.

[75Crazie]

I was at both games. Comparing the rain today to the rain last year is like comparing the sniffles to cancer.
I do not disagree … just sayin' that blaming the field here is, at best, sour grapes.

[ndkjr70]

I do not disagree … just sayin' that blaming the field here is, at best, sour grapes.

Sour grapes? The people around me said the field has been pretty rough, that coincided with 5 noncontact injuries for my football team so I posted about it on an online message board.

You need thicker skin if you’re taking offense to anything that I said.

[75Crazie]

Oh, OK, so you're just the reporter here. Got it.

[arnie]

Sour grapes? The people around me said the field has been pretty rough, that coincided with 5 noncontact injuries for my football team so I posted about it on an online message board.

You need thicker skin if you’re taking offense to anything that I said.

Did the people around you say the bad field allowed Parker’s punt to roll too far?

[SavDukeGrad]

Any Miami fan complaining about today's field should be force-fed a viewing of last year's Duke/Miami game at Miami.

I’m with you, 75Crazie. I thought it was universally acknowledged that Miami had one of the worst fields in all of college football. Which aligns with my memory of several Duke games there.

And I don’t know enough about the Dolphins these days, but thought I remembered that they used to play on the same field, which was widely criticized in the NFL.

Btw, I think the Duke field looks pretty good.

[downeastdad]

These are two not very good football teams.

This may be the understatement of the day.

[downeastdad]

A first down!!!

[SavDukeGrad]

A touchdown!!!

[TheDevilMadeMeDoIt]

We owe these guys for the Halloween prank they played on us!

[YmoBeThere]

Yesssss!!!!!

[downeastdad]

QH can hit a wide open receiver! Nice pass in the deluge.

[SavDukeGrad]

Hope a 10 point lead is enough!

[downeastdad]

Hope a 10 point lead is enough!

Looking a little shaky. Step it up, D.

[arnie]

Hope a 10 point lead is enough!

I left for 20 minutes and Duke scores twice. What the H happened?

[SavDukeGrad]

I left for 20 minutes and Duke scores twice. What the H happened?

You’re obviously bad luck! Please stop watching! :) (kidding of course)

[SavDukeGrad]

Great stand by our D! And so good to see our guys playing with passion. To my eye, first time since the Carolina game they have played with such emotion.

[TheDevilMadeMeDoIt]

Come on Defense!

[75Crazie]

So … the key to playing Miami is to schedule the game during a driving rainstorm?

[TheDevilMadeMeDoIt]

I’m impressed the coaches got the team up for this game. This is important for next year. We should have an excellent defense next year. We need a quarterback to step up and we’re good to go.

[peloton]

The guys are playing with passion and heart...great to see and congrats to the seniors!

[fuse]

Hats off to the fans that showed up for the team today.
Bad football on offense, gutty win.

Thank you senior class.

[BlueDevil16]

Makes the disasters against Cuse, UNC and Pitt harder to swallow. Could have went bowling. But fair play to the team to show up today.

[SavDukeGrad]

So happy for the seniors to go out with a W. Proud of the team for playing with heart and passion after a very tough month.

[Indoor66]

Go State, beat the CHEATERS

[HereBeforeCoachK]

Makes the disasters against Cuse, UNC and Pitt harder to swallow. Could have went bowling. But fair play to the team to show up today.

Agreed, miserable season....team had seemingly packed it in.....but credit where credit is due today.

[howardlander]

Makes the disasters against Cuse, UNC and Pitt harder to swallow. Could have went bowling. But fair play to the team to show up today.

Didn't it used to be the case that some 5 and 7 teams got to go to bowls? Is that still true?

[killerleft]

Wasn’t aware that it was renovated. Since it may be confusing, I am a Miami alum. Active here because both of my parents went to Duke (they didn’t have my major!) but the opinion I’ve gotten from those around me who are big Duke fans are that this is a substandard playing surface; and the 5+ injuries in the first half seemed to corroborate that (potentially mis)information.

That is completely inaccurate. The field is in very good condition. There are apparently Duke fans living under a rock.

[arnie]

You’re obviously bad luck! Please stop watching! :) (kidding of course)

I did quit watching. Guess I share credit with Cut for the win

[peloton]

Didn't it used to be the case that some 5 and 7 teams got to go to bowls? Is that still true?

Yes, it is but it's not likely we go to a bowl.

[BlueDevil16]

Yes, it is but it's not likely we go to a bowl.

Depends on how many bowl eligible teams there are but think there will be just enough this year.

[TKG]

Jump pass.

[UrinalCake]

Agreed, miserable season...team had seemingly packed it in....but credit where credit is due today.

I think that jump pass at the end of the UNC game just broke the team. We sort of recovered over the past two weeks, but by then it was too late. This year's team was never going to be a powerhouse, but should have had enough to make a bowl. The blowout win over Virginia Tech feels like such an anomaly.

Anyways, glad they were able to get the win and end the season on a positive note. The defense should in fact be good next year, but the QB will be starting from scratch.

[HereBeforeCoachK]

I think that jump pass at the end of the UNC game just broke the team.

Very plausible. You had to scratch your head at Cut, Roper and Deon over that dumpster fire.

[billwh]

Just got home. I set through the entire game, out in the rain with a maybe 500-1000 people on my side. Great win. Way to go Duke. Radio says we are not going to a bowl. But, I am really glad for the seniors and Harris, they played really hard and got the win.

[OldPhiKap]

Good finish to the season. If things had bounced our way, we could be 7-5 instead of 5-7. That’s football.

[BlueDevil16]

https://athlonsports.com/college-football/bowl-game-eligible-college-football-teams-2019

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Good finish to the season. If things had bounced our way, we could be 7-5 instead of 5-7. That’s football.

Nah. Let's encourage Coach Cut to retire. What has he done for us lately?

[OldPhiKap]

Nah. Let's encourage Coach Cut to retire. What has he done for us lately?

True. IIRC, in the eighteen years before Cut got here we only exceeded four wins once. I like the comfort of knowing we’re staying home, instead of the uncertainty of competition that has bedeviled us the last decade or so.

[Bob Green]

Congratulations Blue Devils! It is really nice end the season on a high note.

[chrishoke]

Congrats seniors and the rest of our Devils.

I just read this thread and can't believe no one mentioned our pass rush - nine sacks - wow - and without Victor our best rushman.

[arnie]

Good finish to the season. If things had bounced our way, we could be 7-5 instead of 5-7. That’s football.

Hard to believe we can beat VaT badly and Miami (originally thought to be the Coastal powers), but lose to WF, Syracuse (badly) and Cheats in the same year??

[miramar]

This was the guy who was going to return UM to its glory days, just like Randy Shannon, Al Golden, and Mark Richt before him.

Instead, they lost to 3-9 Georgia Tech, FIU, and fortunately managed to snap Duke's five-game losing streak.

Am I the only one who remembers that Diaz is largely responsible for Mack Brown's premature (yet temporary) retirement at Texas? No wonder their 2020 recruits are jumping ship.

[1999ballboy]

13 teams are one win away from bowl eligibility (BC, Cheats, Mich St, Neb, TCU, Kent St, Ohio, Colo, Ore St, Miss St, Troy, UL Monroe, Liberty). All of these teams are 5-6, except for Liberty, who is 6-5 but has two FCS wins, and therefore must win 7 games to be bowl eligible. This list excludes Missouri, who is 5-6 but just had its bowl ban upheld. It also excludes Army.

Wins by all the following teams thus far: BC, MSU, Kent St, Ohio, Miss St, Liberty. That would be 6. Oh well, it was good to hold out hope for a quirky bowl bid while it lasted.

[wavedukefan70s]

Just look about 230 miles south give or take.dukes requirements are stiffer than u of south carolina.
That is a dumpster fire.
No reason they should not be a top 20 team every year.what duke does in football looks a heck of a lot better than what they do.duke never wastes talent that i can see. Think about the situation they have had last few years.they have used a qb whos father is on the staff .he was also on Auburn's staff his other son was qb.left more talented products on the bench.while floundering.
I do not see cut doing that ever.Duke really has a soecial coach.Duke is 10 better players from being a dang good top 20 team.maybe top 10 .i say 10 due to injuries ect.some areas other teams are next man up.i dont see that depth usually on dukes roster.only at spots . id be proud if one of my kids was on the roster.besides the record .you cant really say anything bad about the program.thats not a bad place to be.

[devildeac]

if we win this game, and end up missing a bowl because we pissed away so many earlier games, i'm going to be unhappy. I mean, thrilled that we won...but unhappy that we blew the opportunity to be better.

Yep, especially Pitt and the cheats games. :mad:

[devildeac]

We owe these guys for the Halloween prank they played on us!

That was no prank. That was larceny. :mad:

[BlueDevil16]

how many spots did we miss out by? 1? 2?

[OZZIE4DUKE]

Congrats to the team and all the fans who stood by us! LGD GTHc!

[uh_no]

Yep, especially Pitt and the cheats games. :mad:

for me the cuse and wake games. the game situation mightn't've been winnable, but with the right game plan and in-game management, i have no doubt we had the ability to win those games. hopefully we'll see more of today next season, and less of....those other games.

[devildeac]

https://athlonsports.com/college-football/bowl-game-eligible-college-football-teams-2019

And the Pack, after a good first half, has run off the road and flipped their vehicle into a deep, deep ditch in their own back year :mad:.

However, we had our chance vs the cheats...

[devildeac]

True. IIRC, in the eighteen years before Cut got here we only exceeded four wins once. I like the comfort of knowing we’re staying home, instead of the uncertainty of competition that has bedeviled us the last decade or so.

You're only happy cuz you get to save airfare and hotel $$ and avoid the possibility of another Hep G infections...

:rolleyes:

[HereBeforeCoachK]

Just look about 230 miles south give or take.dukes requirements are stiffer than u of south carolina.
That is a dumpster fire.
No reason they should not be a top 20 team every year.what duke does in football looks a heck of a lot better than what they do.duke never wastes talent that i can see. Think about the situation they have had last few years.they have used a qb whos father is on the staff .he was also on Auburn's staff his other son was qb.left more talented products on the bench.while floundering.
I do not see cut doing that ever.Duke really has a soecial coach.Duke is 10 better players from being a dang good top 20 team.maybe top 10 .i say 10 due to injuries ect.some areas other teams are next man up.i dont see that depth usually on dukes roster.only at spots . id be proud if one of my kids was on the roster.besides the record .you cant really say anything bad about the program.thats not a bad place to be.


You make some valid points, but you say there's no reason SC should not be a Top 20 team every year: I have a few:
Georgia
Alabama
Texas A and M
Tennessee
...etc.

[devildeac]

for me the cuse and wake games. the game situation mightn't've been winnable, but with the right game plan and in-game management, i have no doubt we had the ability to win those games. hopefully we'll see more of today next season, and less of...those other games.

I thought of those, too, but we looked dreadful vs SU and not much better vs WFU, save for the 14 points special teams scored. Coulda, shoulda, woulda.

[OldPhiKap]

You're only happy cuz you get to save airfare and hotel $$ and avoid the possibility of another Hep G infections...

:rolleyes:

But I got to try local craft beers in Atlanta, Detroit, El Paso, Charlotte/Asheville and NYC. Which helped.


You make some valid points, but you say there's no reason SC should not be a Top 20 team every year: I have a few:
Georgia
Alabama
Texas A and M
Tennessee
...etc.

The Gamecocks’ schedule was brutal this year, as was A&M’s. No place to hide in the SEC.

[uh_no]

I thought of those, too, but we looked dreadful vs SU and not much better vs WFU, save for the 14 points special teams scored. Coulda, shoulda, woulda.

right....which bugs me the most....since games like tonight prove that we're simply not as bad as we looked. great win today, but still a frustrating season overall.

[duke2x]

We did get to 5-7 (3-5) but not the ones I thought. We avoided a last place Coastal finish. I wish we had just one of Pitt, UNC, Syracuse, or Wake back.

I will start my own Austin Parker appreciation thread at home.

[gep]

CONGRATULATIONS to the Blue Devils. Great effort on possibly the last game of the season... if so, great way to go out.

And especially a BIG shout out to the Duke fans at WW. I watched on TV (to far to consider going). The weather looked absolutely miserable for fans... but you guys stuck it out for your Blue Devils.

THANKS to ALL!!!! 😎

[sagegrouse]

I get it that there’s bad weather, but what an absolutely abhorrent playing field. Unacceptable for a power-5 conference field; we’re at 4 (?) non contact injuries so far and counting.

For what it’s worth 23 on Miami, who’s been able to play a little bit, also needed to be helped off the field after pregame stretching.

Some differ with you and believe that Duke has a very good turf field -- some have said "the best," but I don't know about that. It was replaced at great expense when the stadium was renovated 2-3 years ago.

[du_bb1]

Just got home, time to dry and get warm-it was worth it, great 4th quarter. Nice to see the seniors go out with a win. They have played hard all year
but circumstances/ game plans got in the way. Ready for next year

[sagegrouse]

This was the guy who was going to return UM to its glory days, just like Randy Shannon, Al Golden, and Mark Richt before him.

Instead, they lost to 3-9 Georgia Tech, FIU, and fortunately managed to snap Duke's five-game losing streak.

Am I the only one who remembers that Diaz is largely responsible for Mack Brown's premature (yet temporary) retirement at Texas? No wonder their 2020 recruits are jumping ship.

All I hear about Manny Diaz is that his Mom phoned him at halftime and said, "Don't be an idiot, Manny! Put on your hat!" He complied.

[wavedukefan70s]

You make some valid points, but you say there's no reason SC should not be a Top 20 team every year: I have a few:
Georgia
Alabama
Texas A and M
Tennessee
...etc.

Theoretically speaking.they have the money and the backing to buy the means necessary to have a top program or atleast a upper sec program.

[devildeac]

I had my doubts going to the game and plans for an early exit if the weather and/or the scoreboard became highly unfavorable but it was highly rewarding staying until 0:00 for this one. We "snuck" into some empty seats next to a tailgate friend under cover and stayed warm, dry and happy.

[uh_no]

I had my doubts going to the game and plans for an early exit if the weather and/or the scoreboard became highly unfavorable but it was highly rewarding staying until 0:00 for this one. We "snuck" into some empty seats next to a tailgate friend under cover and stayed warm, dry and happy.

how did you manage to find some empty seats??

[Devilwin]

Congrats to the team, especially the senior class. Offense showed they were, after all, capable of moving the ball if not hamstrung by bad coaching decisions, and the defense was just simply fierce! The pass rush lead by Rumph and company was a deciding factor. Just cannot shake the fact we could have easily won 8 games, at the least 7. Either way, great game last night boys.

[devildeac]

how did you manage to find some empty seats??

It was a bit difficult with all those blue seats disguised as spectators.

[miramar]

All I hear about Manny Diaz is that his Mom phoned him at halftime and said, "Don't be an idiot, Manny! Put on your hat!" He complied.

He may be a dutiful son, but according to the Miami Herald's Barry Jackson, Diaz is already on the hot seat after only one season. Unfortunately for him, Miami fans (the city in general, not just UM) are as fickle as they come, and he won't get a pass just because dad was a pretty good mayor:

"Because this much is clear: This season was unacceptable, from the 10 sacks allowed in the opener, to the inexcusable loss to a dreadful Georgia Tech team, to the FIU and Duke losses, to the underachieving offense, to the inexcusable errors that largely went unpunished. . . . And Diaz, I suspect, has a year to fix it. The clock began ticking at 7:15 pm Saturday."

Read more here: https://www.miamiherald.com/article237926004.html#storylink=cpy

[Bob Green]

https://www.dukebasketballreport.com/2019/11/30/20989653/duke-ends-football-season-on-an-upswing-with-defeat-of-miami-acc-coastal

Jim Sumner recap on front page.

[CrazyNotCrazie]

He may be a dutiful son, but according to the Miami Herald's Barry Jackson, Diaz is already on the hot seat after only one season. Unfortunately for him, Miami fans (the city in general, not just UM) are as fickle as they come, and he won't get a pass just because dad was a pretty good mayor:

"Because this much is clear: This season was unacceptable, from the 10 sacks allowed in the opener, to the inexcusable loss to a dreadful Georgia Tech team, to the FIU and Duke losses, to the underachieving offense, to the inexcusable errors that largely went unpunished. . . . And Diaz, I suspect, has a year to fix it. The clock began ticking at 7:15 pm Saturday."

Read more here: https://www.miamiherald.com/article237926004.html#storylink=cpy

I was only partially listening to the game but I heard the announcers say something about Diaz needing to clean up a lot of behind the scenes issues. It wasn’t clear whether he was saying they were holdovers from the prior staff or whether he was blaming Diaz (or both).

[TheDevilMadeMeDoIt]

This game left a good taste in my mouth. As the eternal Duke optimist I can’t wait until next fall. While lots of folks complained about recruiting I saw a lot of young exciting players on this team. I like our young receivers. The defense should be even better. The offensive line needs work. The play calling needs work, particularly throwing to the sticks on third down. Most importantly at Duke you always need a quarterback who can cover up your other weaknesses. It’s been true since the days of at least Leo Hart. Hopefully Gunnar has a great recovery or Luca can play like Auburn’s freshman quarterback. Go Devils! We need a Coastal championship next year!

[moonpie23]

a good win for the soul of the program in general......duke players hugging each other. most teams chest bump and high five for a win....


this was a good win .......congrats to the team, staff AND fans ... :)

[lotusland]

Just look about 230 miles south give or take.dukes requirements are stiffer than u of south carolina.
That is a dumpster fire.
No reason they should not be a top 20 team every year.what duke does in football looks a heck of a lot better than what they do.duke never wastes talent that i can see. Think about the situation they have had last few years.they have used a qb whos father is on the staff .he was also on Auburn's staff his other son was qb.left more talented products on the bench.while floundering.
I do not see cut doing that ever.Duke really has a soecial coach.Duke is 10 better players from being a dang good top 20 team.maybe top 10 .i say 10 due to injuries ect.some areas other teams are next man up.i dont see that depth usually on dukes roster.only at spots . id be proud if one of my kids was on the roster.besides the record .you cant really say anything bad about the program.thats not a bad place to be.

There’s a high paying job for you in Cola if you can easy peasy make the Gamecocks a perennial top 20 program. Except for the Spurrier years it hasn’t happened. Bentley would be the Cocks all time leading passer if he had not been hurt in game one this year. He clearly didn’t progress in his decision making but it’s not clear to me that he played ahead of anyone more skilled or talented.

[devildeac]

https://www.dukebasketballreport.com/2019/11/30/20989653/duke-ends-football-season-on-an-upswing-with-defeat-of-miami-acc-coastal

Jim Sumner recap on front page.

A very satisfying summary.

[szstark]

for me the cuse and wake games. the game situation mightn't've been winnable, but with the right game plan and in-game management, i have no doubt we had the ability to win those games. hopefully we'll see more of today next season, and less of...those other games.

Have to respectfully disagree - the Pitt game came down to one untimely blitz with about 30 seconds to go and the unc game came down to the infamous jump pass at the end. That's two plays that cost us a bowl game, two plays. It hurts to even think about it, but I guess that's football.

[sagegrouse]

I was only partially listening to the game but I heard the announcers say something about Diaz needing to clean up a lot of behind the scenes issues. It wasn’t clear whether he was saying they were holdovers from the prior staff or whether he was blaming Diaz (or both).

When I hear of "behind the scene issues" at the U, why do I think of "sex, drugs and rock-and-roll?"

[devildeac]

When I hear of "behind the scene issues" at the U, why do I think of "sex, drugs and rock-and-roll?"

Or, "Lawyers, Guns and Money."

[Devilwin]

Happy with the win, just hope next season brings a good qb and a revitalized offense along with him.

[sagegrouse]

There’s a high paying job for you in Cola if you can easy peasy make the Gamecocks a perennial top 20 program. Except for the Spurrier years it hasn’t happened. Bentley would be the Cocks all time leading passer if he had not been hurt in game one this year. He clearly didn’t progress in his decision making but it’s not clear to me that he played ahead of anyone more skilled or talented.

My Dad had a number of big Gamecock fans as clients in Charleston, and he tried to wait until they won a game before making calls -- it was often a struggle.

The Cocks had some success with Spurrier -- three top-ten, bowl-winning 11-2 seasons in the early part of this decade, but even Lou Holtz, his predecessor, had a losing record.* Otherwise, the success in 70 years in the Southern Conference, the ACC and the SEC is limited to one ACC championship in 1969 under Paul Dietzel (who also had a losing record in Columbia) and an SEC East championship under Spurrier in 2010.

Kindly,
Sage
*Holtz was 0-11 in his first year at South Carolina; afterwards, he was 33-26.

[uh_no]

Have to respectfully disagree - the Pitt game came down to one untimely blitz with about 30 seconds to go and the unc game came down to the infamous jump pass at the end. That's two plays that cost us a bowl game, two plays. It hurts to even think about it, but I guess that's football.

i'm less concerned about the bowl game than the team consistently failing to play to its potential every week the past several years.

[BigWayne]

how many spots did we miss out by? 1? 2?

2

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019%E2%80%9320_NCAA_football_bowl_games#Bowl-eligible_teams

There's one "extra" team so one team will be left out after the music stops next Sunday.

[jimsumner]

2

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019%E2%80%9320_NCAA_football_bowl_games#Bowl-eligible_teams

There's one "extra" team so one team will be left out after the music stops next Sunday.

Ole Miss, Pittsburgh and Maryland did Duke no favors.

[75Crazie]

i'm less concerned about the bowl game than the team consistently failing to play to its potential every week the past several years.
I am having trouble sussing the intent behind this rather confusing statement. I will just say that NO college team in the country plays to its potential every week in any given year. Even Clemson has at least one sleep-walking game in a year.

The problem with Duke the past 2-3 years is that it has several times displayed a miniscule fraction of its potential. And yet, last year it went to a bowl, and this year (when the offense completely disappeared for over half the season) it fell one game short. A disappointing year, to be sure … but not one that merits the volume of hand-wringing I'm seeing here.

[uh_no]

I am having trouble sussing the intent behind this rather confusing statement.

not everything said has to have some nefarious intent.


I will just say that NO college team in the country plays to its potential every week in any given year. Even Clemson has at least one sleep-walking game in a year.

The problem with Duke the past 2-3 years is that it has several times displayed a miniscule fraction of its potential.

i mean, that's what i said...though you perhaps more clearly...

[ncexnyc]

I am having trouble sussing the intent behind this rather confusing statement. I will just say that NO college team in the country plays to its potential every week in any given year. Even Clemson has at least one sleep-walking game in a year.

The problem with Duke the past 2-3 years is that it has several times displayed a miniscule fraction of its potential. And yet, last year it went to a bowl, and this year (when the offense completely disappeared for over half the season) it fell one game short. A disappointing year, to be sure … but not one that merits the volume of hand-wringing I'm seeing here.

I have to agree with you. Reading many of the comments on this thread reminds me of that famous line from the classic movie, Gladiator, when Maximus chides the crowd by asking, "Are you not entertained?"

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

It was 54 years between bowl victories. And now missing a bowl game is a "disappointing season."

If anyone wants to understand what Coach Cut has meant to Duke football, that says all of it to me.

[jb75]

It was 54 years between bowl victories. And now missing a bowl game is a "disappointing season."

If anyone wants to understand what Coach Cut has meant to Duke football, that says all of it to me.

I am a HUGE David Cutcliffe fan. However, comparing bowl achievement decades ago to today’s environment is “apples and oranges”.

[OldPhiKap]

I am a HUGE David Cutcliffe fan. However, comparing bowl achievement decades ago to today’s environment is “apples and oranges”.

In the decades before Cut got here, we failed to exceed four wins in seventeen of eighteen seasons. While bowls are easier to qualify for now than before, it’s not a bad loose comparison.

It is not inappropriate IMHO to note that the last Duke bowl win before Cutcliffe was during JFK’s Administration. No matter the fruit being compared.

[HereBeforeCoachK]

It was 54 years between bowl victories. And now missing a bowl game is a "disappointing season."

If anyone wants to understand what Coach Cut has meant to Duke football, that says all of it to me.

C'mon, awful invalid analogy and you know it. That's like saying Coach K is only half the coach Wooden was, cuz Wooden won 10. That was the Jurassic era.

In FB, used to take 7-3 minimum to go bowling....then 7-4 when the 11th game was added. Wasn't too long ago that 6-6 was considered mediocre, not "bowl eligible." I think at one time only 10% of what was called "Division One" went to a bowl.

[OldPhiKap]

C'mon, awful invalid analogy and you know it. That's like saying Coach K is only half the coach Wooden was, cuz Wooden won 10. That was the Jurassic era.

In FB, used to take 7-3 minimum to go bowling...then 7-4 when the 11th game was added. Wasn't too long ago that 6-6 was considered mediocre, not "bowl eligible." I think at one time only 10% of what was called "Division One" went to a bowl.

But we didn’t win 7 games. Or 6. Or 5 . . . .

And, the two bowls we made (Spurrier in 1989 and Goldsmith in 1995) we lost.

[jimsumner]

C'mon, awful invalid analogy and you know it. That's like saying Coach K is only half the coach Wooden was, cuz Wooden won 10. That was the Jurassic era.

In FB, used to take 7-3 minimum to go bowling...then 7-4 when the 11th game was added. Wasn't too long ago that 6-6 was considered mediocre, not "bowl eligible." I think at one time only 10% of what was called "Division One" went to a bowl.

Using today's standards Duke qualified for a bowl game in 1961, 1962, 1965, 1970, 1971, 1974, 1981, 1982 and 1988.

And Wallace Wade used to go 9-1 and stay home.

[OldPhiKap]

Using today's standards Duke qualified for a bowl game in 1961, 1962, 1965, 1970, 1971, 1974, 1981, 1982 and 1988.

And Wallace Wade used to go 9-1 and stay home.

So, since the 1961 win, Duke qualified for two bowls and would have qualified under today’s standards for another eight. Ten total in 48 seasons from our last win until Cut arrived.

Cut himself has qualified for six bowls in twelve seasons.

As I said, bowls are easier to qualify for these days. But what Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15 posted is a fair statement of what Cut has meant to the program. (Or at least, that’s what I took from his post which is being dissected way too literally IMO).

[uh_no]

So, since the 1961 win, Duke qualified for two bowls and would have qualified under today’s standards for another eight. Ten total in 48 seasons from our last win until Cut arrived.

Cut himself has qualified for six bowls in twelve seasons.

As I said, bowls are easier to qualify for these days. But what Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15 posted is a fair statement of what Cut has meant to the program. (Or at least, that’s what I took from his post which is being dissected way too literally IMO).

all of
- meaning a lot to the program
- having been the right man at some point in the past
- currently being the right man
are independent.

and don't read that to mean that cut is not the right man currently. I do believe, however, that duke had the opportunity to perform better the past couple seasons and didn't. I also believe, like many of you, that Cut has a responsibility to fix that. So far, he has not, and I think he has some serious decisions to make this offseason.

[OldPhiKap]

and don't read that to mean that cut is not the right man currently. I do believe, however, that duke had the opportunity to perform better the past couple seasons and didn't. I also believe, like many of you, that Cut has a responsibility to fix that. So far, he has not, and I think he has some serious decisions to make this offseason.

I don’t wholly disagree, other than to say that IIRC the over/under on this year was 5.5 wins and last year we were projected a borderline bowl team. We had a rough run of early injuries last year too. So while I would agree that we have not exceeded expectations the last two years, I think we’ve done about what was projected.

And yes, I think Cut would be the first to state that improvement is on his shoulders and he has some serious evaluations to do. No disagreement here.

To me, the disappointing thing isn’t the close losses. Those happen. It’s the inexplicable (to me) butt-whippings at home we have taken from teams like Wake last year and Syracuse this year that I find discouraging.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

I am a HUGE David Cutcliffe fan. However, comparing bowl achievement decades ago to today’s environment is “apples and oranges”.

Agreed. From which year forward should we count our winless bowl streak?

My bigger point stands. Coach Cut has changed the expectations of Duke football in a seismic way.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

all of
- meaning a lot to the program
- having been the right man at some point in the past
- currently being the right man
are independent.

and don't read that to mean that cut is not the right man currently. I do believe, however, that duke had the opportunity to perform better the past couple seasons and didn't. I also believe, like many of you, that Cut has a responsibility to fix that. So far, he has not, and I think he has some serious decisions to make this offseason.

I wasn't suggesting that Cut was or wasn't the "right man now."

I acknowledge that Cut possibly may fall victim to the new expectations of our fan base. But you also could acknowledge that those expectations were not here before Cutcliffe arrived.

[sagegrouse]

C'mon, awful invalid analogy and you know it. That's like saying Coach K is only half the coach Wooden was, cuz Wooden won 10. That was the Jurassic era.

In FB, used to take 7-3 minimum to go bowling...then 7-4 when the 11th game was added. Wasn't too long ago that 6-6 was considered mediocre, not "bowl eligible." I think at one time only 10% of what was called "Division One" went to a bowl.

Hah! We turned down the Gator Bowl with an 8-2 record and a borderline top-ten ranking. According to, I believe, either Sumner or Featherston, players hated Bill Murray's intense practices and didn't want to go through another three weeks.

[OldPhiKap]

Hah! We turned down the Gator Bowl with an 8-2 record and a borderline top-ten ranking. Players hated Bill Murray's intense practices and didn't want to go through another three weeks.

Travel was much more of an issue in those days as well.

I’m glad we have a rich history. I’m glad we have Cut now.

I’m happy to forget much of the wasteland in between.

[Hartford Dukie]

Using today's standards Duke qualified for a bowl game in 1961, 1962, 1965, 1970, 1971, 1974, 1981, 1982 and 1988.

And Wallace Wade used to go 9-1 and stay home.

Long time ago, but Duke won the ACC championships in 1961 and 1962 (6-0 ACC) - now that would have earned two Orange Bowl invites.

I would add 1963 & 1966 to that list, as Duke won five games both years, out of the 10 game slate - and if playing .500 ball is the standard for bowl eligibility, as it is now, then they played .500 ball those years (and those were the years were all of Duke OOC's schedule was against tough opponents - no cupcakes)

[Nugget]

I wasn't suggesting that Cut was or wasn't the "right man now."

I acknowledge that Cut possibly may fall victim to the new expectations of our fan base. But you also could acknowledge that those expectations were not here before Cutcliffe arrived.

I agree completely. I think, also, that there is such a difference between the nature of college football from the 60's-70's to now that the more relevant comparison is to look at what Duke football has been since Steve Spurrier left in 1989, so exactly the last 30 years.

In the 18 seasons pre-Cut, from 1990 through 2007, we were 43-159-1 (avg. per year of 2.4-8.8), with one bowl trip. We only had one year with more than four wins. Worse, we had a pathetic six winless or one-win seasons. Duke football was a grotesque joke during those 18 years, easily the worst major conference program and almost always uncompetitive against D-1 foes.

Under Cut, we've been, for the most part (obviously a few stinkers) competitive against against all but the very best opponents, while running a clean program that continues to consistently lead the nation in graduation and ACC in academic honors.

The struggles this season have been disappointing, but I'd say we were very competitive until, as others have noted, the bizarre endings of the Pitt and Carolina games did seem to break the team. But, this year was always going to be difficult, with the tougher than usual schedule and an unproven QB.

We have a great deal to be proud of with regard to Duke football and shouldn't easily forget just how sorry we were for the nearly two decades before Coach Cut arrived.

[Devilsforlife]

I think everyone appreciates the job Cut has done in revitalizing what had been the worst Power 5 program in the country in the 15 years before he arrived in Durham, but many feel that the coaching, primarily on offense, has not been as good over the last 4 years, compared to Cut's peak era from 2012-2015. We've won 10 ACC games since the start of 2016, and have failed to achieve a .500 season in the Coastal in that timespan, while having suffered through numerous ugly offensive performances, even with a top 10 pick at QB for 3 seasons. It's definitely fair to discuss the shortcomings of the last few Duke teams, and what can be done to get the program back to contending in the Coastal again. I would like to see a new OC and a revamped offensive scheme in 2020.

[dm9e24]

In the decades before Cut got here, we failed to exceed four wins in seventeen of eighteen seasons. While bowls are easier to qualify for now than before, it’s not a bad loose comparison.

It is not inappropriate IMHO to note that the last Duke bowl win before Cutcliffe was during JFK’s Administration. No matter the fruit being compared.

Very happy that we picked ourselves off the mat from the TKO in the Pitt game and the KO from the unc jump pass episode that sucked the air out of the team. Any win that ends a season is beneficial to the team and it's fan base

Mr King told readers to get over it in his article before this game. OK. But is it too much to ask that a program 11 years into a coach's tenure should get somewhere near .500 in their conference more consistently which, in most years, would allow us to be one of 78 teams going to a bowl game. Maybe that is too much to ask. As far as bowls, it could be argued that our normally weak OOC schedule has been very beneficial. Winning 2-3 games in most years in conference depends on a very favorable OOC schedule.

I think that Cut has done a fantastic job in raising the profile of the football program. But it seems that comparing his tenure to the mediocre 40 years before he got here is more a reflection on the lack of commitment from Duke than anything else. Red Wilson had a nice run. We got lucky with Steve Spurrier. What if he had stayed 11 years? I don't think we would be talking about the bad old days before Cut. And I know people will say that we can't get Steve Spurriers to stick around. Ok, what if a David Cutcliff had been hired after Spurrier left instead of the parade of below average coaches in the years between he and Coach Cut. What would our program history look like today had that happened? Wilson and Spurrier had given Duke at lot of momentum.

I hope this year is an outlier and that we get back to 6-8 wins and a bowl game. And, more important, that we start reversing the mediocre conference record we have had since the break through 2013 season.

[jimsumner]

Very happy that we picked ourselves off the mat from the TKO in the Pitt game and the KO from the unc jump pass episode that sucked the air out of the team. Any win that ends a season is beneficial to the team and it's fan base

Mr King told readers to get over it in his article before this game. OK. But is it too much to ask that a program 11 years into a coach's tenure should get somewhere near .500 in their conference more consistently which, in most years, would allow us to be one of 78 teams going to a bowl game. Maybe that is too much to ask. As far as bowls, it could be argued that our normally weak OOC schedule has been very beneficial. Winning 2-3 games in most years in conference depends on a very favorable OOC schedule.

.
.

Duke has been at least 3-5 in ACC play 6 of the last 7 years. In other words, no worse than one win from .500. That seems like getting somewhere near .500 in conference play consistently.

1962? Duke turned down a Gator Bowl bid for several reasons. Don't think travel was one of them. Duke had lost its final two regular-season games in 1960 and Murray was not happy. Murray ran a very rough practice regimen prior to the Cotton Bowl. At least some of the 1960 sophomores were 1962 seniors and they decided they would rather spend their last Christmas vacation before entering the real world with their families.

And prior to that Duke had only played in the Rose, Cotton, Orange or Sugar bowls. At least some people in the administration thought the Gator Bowl was beneath Duke.

Note that as recently as 1988, Spurrier's second season at Duke, the Blue Devils went 7-3-1, with an exciting offense that included a quarterback who passed for 3,800 yards in 11 games and still didn't get a bid.

[uh_no]

I don’t wholly disagree, other than to say that IIRC the over/under on this year was 5.5 wins and last year we were projected a borderline bowl team. We had a rough run of early injuries last year too. So while I would agree that we have not exceeded expectations the last two years, I think we’ve done about what was projected.

And yes, I think Cut would be the first to state that improvement is on his shoulders and he has some serious evaluations to do. No disagreement here.

To me, the disappointing thing isn’t the close losses. Those happen. It’s the inexplicable (to me) butt-whippings at home we have taken from teams like Wake last year and Syracuse this year that I find discouraging.

Given duke's record against the spread under cut (i don't have the exact number, but if i recall, it's unnaturally good), i'm not sure lines or projections are necessarily the right metric to measure ourselves against. This stems from the history of duke footballl, and bettors (or media) not taking the time to actually evaluate the team. One could also argue the projected number of wins is so low because duke has not demonstrated recently that they can consistently perform up to the potential of the talent on the roster, and that gets baked in. Either way, it makes it somewhat dubious to evaluate a program thusly.

On the other hand,. as was pointed out earlier, we have similar recruiting numbers to teams who have recently consistently finished better than us recently. That I think is a bit of a more important indicator. We shouldn't be getting blown out by syracuse, or consistently losing to wake, or losing every 50/50 game given what we put on the field, but we did this year, and the story is similar the past couple of years.

[DukeDTD]

Given duke's record against the spread under cut (i don't have the exact number, but if i recall, it's unnaturally good), i'm not sure lines or projections are necessarily the right metric to measure ourselves against. This stems from the history of duke footballl, and bettors (or media) not taking the time to actually evaluate the team. One could also argue the projected number of wins is so low because duke has not demonstrated recently that they can consistently perform up to the potential of the talent on the roster, and that gets baked in. Either way, it makes it somewhat dubious to evaluate a program thusly.

On the other hand,. as was pointed out earlier, we have similar recruiting numbers to teams who have recently consistently finished better than us recently. That I think is a bit of a more important indicator. We shouldn't be getting blown out by syracuse, or consistently losing to wake, or losing every 50/50 game given what we put on the field, but we did this year, and the story is similar the past couple of years.

I agree. I don't think that evaluating the program on whether it is meeting or exceeding preseason projections is the right way to look at it. For me the question should be "what are the expectations for performance over a period of time and are we meeting those expectations"? And exceptional past performance such as Cut leading the program out of CFB Hades definitely earns more patience But I differ with those who treat Cut as if he has earned permanent tenure.

So I look at the last 4 years and I see warning lights and alarms going off. I am not reacting to individual seasons, let alone individual games, although they can be data points. We have better athletes than we have ever had. Yet, we have multiple "big"games in each of those years where we came out flat or even worse, did not really show up. We are 10-22 in the ACC the past four seasons - i.e. we are winning less than 1/3 of our games. We have finished last or second to last in the Coastal every year. In our past 13 regular season games, we now have 53 and 43 point losses in games Duke was favored by double digits. In the last two games against WF, Duke has 541 yards of offense (251+290) and WF has 1135 (517 and 618). In the past 5 years we have not had an offense ranked in the Top 60, except in 2018 when it was in the 52-55 range. This year our offense was somewhere between 110th or 120th in the country. Teams stuff the box and run press coverage against us over and over and over not only this year, but at times in past seasons. Yet, very little changes in our offensive scheme and play calling. We are way behind the rest of the ACC in getting guys drafted. I don't see many players getting better over the course of their career. Look at this year's list of 16 or 17 scholarship players who are leaving and who measurably improved over his career...and how many didn't.

I could keep going, but I think those capture a few of the warning lights I see.

[camion]

Agreed. From which year forward should we count our winless bowl streak?

My bigger point stands. Coach Cut has changed the expectations of Duke football in a seismic way.

Well yeah.

Before Cut I would have been dancing a jig over a 5-7 season. Now I’m disappointed.

[dm9e24]

Duke has been at least 3-5 in ACC play 6 of the last 7 years. In other words, no worse than one win from .500. That seems like getting somewhere near .500 in conference play consistently.

1962? Duke turned down a Gator Bowl bid for several reasons. Don't think travel was one of them. Duke had lost its final two regular-season games in 1960 and Murray was not happy. Murray ran a very rough practice regimen prior to the Cotton Bowl. At least some of the 1960 sophomores were 1962 seniors and they decided they would rather spend their last Christmas vacation before entering the real world with their families.

And prior to that Duke had only played in the Rose, Cotton, Orange or Sugar bowls. At least some people in the administration thought the Gator Bowl was beneath Duke.

Note that as recently as 1988, Spurrier's second season at Duke, the Blue Devils went 7-3-1, with an exciting offense that included a quarterback who passed for 3,800 yards in 11 games and still didn't get a bid.

I agree that finishing below .500 5 out of those 7 years is consistent and should be good enough for Duke fans. Why expect more. Next year we should start off 3-0 with a fairly weak out of conference schedule and then our consistent 3-5 conference record should have us bowling. All will be good

[jimsumner]

I agree that finishing below .500 5 out of those 7 years is consistent and should be good enough for Duke fans. Why expect more. Next year we should start off 3-0 with a fairly weak out of conference schedule and then our consistent 3-5 conference record should have us bowling. All will be good

That's not what I said and you know it. I was responding to a very specific comment with a very specific set of facts.

[Devilwin]

My son heard yesterday that Duke was not completely out of the running for a bowl. Is this true?

[Acymetric]

My son heard yesterday that Duke was not completely out of the running for a bowl. Is this true?

I guess if enough teams turned down bids, but there are 79 teams for 78 slots so we would need two teams to decline invites (and then we would have to accept). Not something I would consider likely, but I suppose it is possible. How often to teams turn down bids?

[budwom]

Duke has been at least 3-5 in ACC play 6 of the last 7 years. In other words, no worse than one win from .500. That seems like getting somewhere near .500 in conference play consistently.

1962? Duke turned down a Gator Bowl bid for several reasons. Don't think travel was one of them. Duke had lost its final two regular-season games in 1960 and Murray was not happy. Murray ran a very rough practice regimen prior to the Cotton Bowl. At least some of the 1960 sophomores were 1962 seniors and they decided they would rather spend their last Christmas vacation before entering the real world with their families.

And prior to that Duke had only played in the Rose, Cotton, Orange or Sugar bowls. At least some people in the administration thought the Gator Bowl was beneath Duke.

Note that as recently as 1988, Spurrier's second season at Duke, the Blue Devils went 7-3-1, with an exciting offense that included a quarterback who passed for 3,800 yards in 11 games and still didn't get a bid.

Well Jim, this is true, Duke has been at least 3-5 in ACC play in six of the last seven years. But I think you have to admit, that's a nice massage of reality.
Another way of looking at it is that over the past four seasons, we are 10-22 in ACC play, which would seem to be a better description of where we are now....let's see what Cut chooses to do, if anything, this off season...

[OldPhiKap]

Well Jim, this is true, Duke has been at least 3-5 in ACC play in six of the last seven years.

All of this points to the fact that we are a mid-level ACC team in the 4-4 range give or take a game each season. Much better than before; not as well as we would like to be.

But other than Clemson, who has consistently stayed up top? FSU, Miami and VT have cratered. Duke, Wake, and UVA have come off the bottom. UNC has consistently underperformed relative to recruited talent. We have one good team and fourteen so-so P5 teams.

This hits the nail on the head for this year, but seems to be most years the last decade: https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaaf/acc/2019/12/02/acc-power-rankings-clemson-leads-virginia-virginia-tech/2589569001/


But I think you have to admit, that's a nice massage of reality.
Another way of looking at it is that over the past four seasons, we are 10-22 in ACC play, which would seem to be a better description of where we are now...

I agree that the last few years have featured great starts, and then struggles to the finish once we hit conference play. We need to become a team that can consistently hit .500 or better in the conference, although as stated above there are a lot of teams over the last seven years that are in our same boat.


let's see what Cut chooses to do, if anything, this off season...

Yup. I am sure he will evaluate everything and come up with a plan. Even if it's not the solution the board wants.

[CameronBornAndBred]

Duke has been at least 3-5 in ACC play 6 of the last 7 years. In other words, no worse than one win from .500. That seems like getting somewhere near .500 in conference play consistently.


All of this points to the fact that we are a mid-level ACC team in the 4-4 range give or take a game each season. Much better than before; not as well as we would like to be.

I respect both of you a lot, but y'all are looking at this through some seriously blue tinted glasses.
"At least 3-5", "seems like getting somewhere near .500", "no worse than one win from .500", and "in the 4-4 range" being tossed out as positives is, well, not positive.

This is our past schedule. We have to go all the way back to 2014 to find a winning year, and to 2015 just to break even.

2019 3-5
2018 3-5
2017 3-5
2016 1-7
2015 4-4
2014 5-3

How anyone can look at that and be happy is beyond me. I'm like everyone here, I was there in the dark days of Duke football; I know exactly how dismal it was. But just because it has "improved" doesn't mean that it's what I want to settle for. I want to see us on the other side of that 3-5 number with regularity. I also have faith that Cutcliffe can make it happen, at least if he is willing to make some changes.

[jv001]

I respect both of you a lot, but y'all are looking at this through some seriously blue tinted glasses.
"At least 3-5", "seems like getting somewhere near .500", "no worse than one win from .500", and "in the 4-4 range" being tossed out as positives is, well, not positive.

This is our past schedule. We have to go all the way back to 2014 to find a winning year, and to 2015 just to break even.

2019 3-5
2018 3-5
2017 3-5
2016 1-7
2015 4-4
2014 5-3

How anyone can look at that and be happy is beyond me. I'm like everyone here, I was there in the dark days of Duke football; I know exactly how dismal it was. But just because it has "improved" doesn't mean that it's what I want to settle for. I want to see us on the other side of that 3-5 number with regularity. I also have faith that Cutcliffe can make it happen, at least if he is willing to make some changes.

If Duke had a good OC, I firmly believe we would have been 4-4 or 5-3 this season and this was suppose to be down year. We wasted a good defense with some awful offense at times and our QB play was below par. I'm in the camp of let's see what Coach Cut does this offseason. GoDuke!

[OldPhiKap]

I respect both of you a lot, but y'all are looking at this through some seriously blue tinted glasses.
"At least 3-5", "seems like getting somewhere near .500", "no worse than one win from .500", and "in the 4-4 range" being tossed out as positives is, well, not positive.

This is our past schedule. We have to go all the way back to 2014 to find a winning year, and to 2015 just to break even.

2019 3-5
2018 3-5
2017 3-5
2016 1-7
2015 4-4
2014 5-3

How anyone can look at that and be happy is beyond me. I'm like everyone here, I was there in the dark days of Duke football; I know exactly how dismal it was. But just because it has "improved" doesn't mean that it's what I want to settle for. I want to see us on the other side of that 3-5 number with regularity. I also have faith that Cutcliffe can make it happen, at least if he is willing to make some changes.

All fair points, and to be clear it's not what I want to settle for either. My general point is that, with the exception of Clemson, almost every team in the ACC is in the mediocre middle.

Believe me, the Peach-fil-A and Sun Bowls were a whole lot more fun than the Pinstripe, Belk, and Detroit (Motor City?) Bowl games. And all of that is better than sitting home.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Would someone who insists that we underperformed by more than a game (UNC, inexplicable loss) like to point to any preseason list that had us competing for the division?

[Bluedog]

I respect both of you a lot, but y'all are looking at this through some seriously blue tinted glasses.
"At least 3-5", "seems like getting somewhere near .500", "no worse than one win from .500", and "in the 4-4 range" being tossed out as positives is, well, not positive.

This is our past schedule. We have to go all the way back to 2014 to find a winning year, and to 2015 just to break even.

2019 3-5
2018 3-5
2017 3-5
2016 1-7
2015 4-4
2014 5-3

How anyone can look at that and be happy is beyond me. I'm like everyone here, I was there in the dark days of Duke football; I know exactly how dismal it was. But just because it has "improved" doesn't mean that it's what I want to settle for. I want to see us on the other side of that 3-5 number with regularity. I also have faith that Cutcliffe can make it happen, at least if he is willing to make some changes.


All fair points, and to be clear it's not what I want to settle for either. My general point is that, with the exception of Clemson, almost every team in the ACC is in the mediocre middle.

Believe me, the Peach-fil-A and Sun Bowls were a whole lot more fun than the Pinstripe, Belk, and Detroit (Motor City?) Bowl games. And all of that is better than sitting home.

There has been a bunch of mediocrity in the ACC besides Clemson, but I'm not sure I'd say all teams are equal in this regard. Here are the ACC records since 2014 (using same timeframe as above, going back 5 years to the last season Duke was above .500 plus five seasons seems like a reasonable timeframe):


team win loss Pct
clemson 44 4 0.917
FSU 29 19 0.604
pitt 28 20 0.583
miami 28 20 0.583
va tech 27 21 0.563
lville 26 22 0.542
unc 23 25 0.479
gatech 22 26 0.458
nc st 21 27 0.438
uva 20 28 0.417
duke 19 29 0.396
bc 18 30 0.375
wfu 16 32 0.333
cuse 15 33 0.313

I would argue that (in addition to Clemson) FSU, Pitt, Miami, Va Tech, and Louisville have been mostly "above the middle" and are in a different tier for this timeframe than the rest of the ACC teams.

[Acymetric]

Would someone who insists that we underperformed by more than a game (UNC, inexplicable loss) like to point to any preseason list that had us competing for the division?

Syracuse was considered a loss pre-season because they were expected to be a top 25 team. They were decidedly not that this year, and by the time that game rolled around it had changed from "likely loss" to "should win". Pre-season expectations have to be adjusted based on in-season evidence.

[budwom]

Would someone who insists that we underperformed by more than a game (UNC, inexplicable loss) like to point to any preseason list that had us competing for the division?

I can't point to any list, but I can point to Cutcliffe who annually maintains that our goal is to compete for championships, something we have failed to do for at least the past four years.
One of his best (of many) attributes) is his insistence that everyone in the program be accountable.
My position, like many others on this and other boards, is that while our defense is arguably good enough to compete for championships, our offense is nowhere close to that. I am hopeful that coach will
assess his offensive staff in an honest manner, and do what needs to be done.

[Acymetric]

There has been a bunch of mediocrity in the ACC besides Clemson, but I'm not sure I'd say all teams are equal in this regard. Here are the ACC records since 2014 (using same timeframe as above, going back 5 years to the last season Duke was above .500 plus five seasons seems like a reasonable timeframe):


team win loss Pct
clemson 44 4 0.917
FSU 29 19 0.604
pitt 28 20 0.583
miami 28 20 0.583
va tech 27 21 0.563
lville 26 22 0.542
unc 23 25 0.479
gatech 22 26 0.458
nc st 21 27 0.438
uva 20 28 0.417
duke 19 29 0.396
bc 18 30 0.375
wfu 16 32 0.333
cuse 15 33 0.313

I would argue that (in addition to Clemson) FSU, Pitt, Miami, Va Tech, and Louisville have been mostly "above the middle" and are in a different tier for this timeframe than the rest of the ACC teams.

There is also a lot of coaching turnover in the group below that...every team except for Duke and NC State (who hired Doeren one year before, 2013).

[uh_no]

Would someone who insists that we underperformed by more than a game (UNC, inexplicable loss) like to point to any preseason list that had us competing for the division?

given that duke is typically picked to finish last in the division almost every year, regardless of who they field, it speaks more about the media's ignorance of duke's prospects more than the actual potential of the team. Recruiting is a better benchmark.

Further, under-performing begets decreased future expectation anyway, so pointing to preseason expectations doesn't absolve duke of anything.

[OldPhiKap]

I would argue that (in addition to Clemson) FSU, Pitt, Miami, Va Tech, and Louisville have been mostly "above the middle" and are in a different tier for this timeframe than the rest of the ACC teams.

True, but the flip side is that FSU, Miami and VT have been abysmal lately -- certainly against their standards. Particularly FSU and Miami, which have programs used to competing for championships.

When is the next scheduled time for Cut to meet the press? Or is there nothing pre-scheduled until next spring?

[CameronBornAndBred]

given that duke is typically picked to finish last in the division almost every year, regardless of who they field, it speaks more about the media's ignorance of duke's prospects more than the actual potential of the team. Recruiting is a better benchmark.

Further, under-performing begets decreased future expectation anyway, so pointing to preseason expectations doesn't absolve duke of anything.

While we are rarely picked in the upper half, you actually have to go all the way back to 2013 to find the last time we were picked to be in the basement.

ACC Preseason Media Projections
2019 Duke 5th in Coastal (ahead of unc/GT) 6 first place votes
2018 Duke 4th in Coastal (ahead of Pitt/unc/UVA) 1 first place vote
2017 Duke 6th in Coastal (ahead of UVA) 4 first place votes
2016 Duke 5th in Coastal (ahead of GT/UVA) 2 first place votes
2015 Duke 4th in Coastal (ahead of unc/Pitt/UVA) 4 first place votes
2014 Duke 2nd in Coastal (ahead of VT/unc/GT/Pitt/UVA) 33 first place votes
2013 Duke 7th in Coastal

[Acymetric]

True, but the flip side is that FSU, Miami and VT have been abysmal lately -- certainly against their standards. Particularly FSU and Miami, which have programs used to competing for championships.

When is the next scheduled time for Cut to meet the press? Or is there nothing pre-scheduled until next spring?

Abysmal by their standards, but still markedly better than us WRT results (some head to head wins against Miami/VT notwithstanding).

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

While we are rarely picked in the upper half, you actually have to go all the way back to 2013 to find the last time we were picked to be in the basement.

ACC Preseason Media Projections
2019 Duke 5th in Coastal (ahead of unc/GT) 6 first place votes
2018 Duke 4th in Coastal (ahead of Pitt/unc/UVA) 1 first place vote
2017 Duke 6th in Coastal (ahead of UVA) 4 first place votes
2016 Duke 5th in Coastal (ahead of GT/UVA) 2 first place votes
2015 Duke 4th in Coastal (ahead of unc/Pitt/UVA) 4 first place votes
2014 Duke 2nd in Coastal (ahead of VT/unc/GT/Pitt/UVA) 33 first place votes
2013 Duke 7th in Coastal

Thank you for offering an actual answer instead of snide remarks or anecdotal replies.

We were picked 5th and finished 6th. The difference between expectations and reality was the horrible jump pass against UNC.

That was terrible - no one disagrees with that. But let's stop pretending like the wheels have somehow come off

[uh_no]

Thank you for offering an actual answer instead of snide remarks or anecdotal replies.

We were picked 5th and finished 6th. The difference between expectations and reality was the horrible jump pass against UNC.

That was terrible - no one disagrees with that. But let's stop pretending like the wheels have somehow come off


If it were a 1 year deal, I would agree with you....but low projections are impacted by years of being <500. So we are meeting the bar that we ourselves caused to be lowered. It's more like one wheel coming off each year than 4 wheels coming off this year.

[Acymetric]

Thank you for offering an actual answer instead of snide remarks or anecdotal replies.

We were picked 5th and finished 6th. The difference between expectations and reality was the horrible jump pass against UNC.

That was terrible - no one disagrees with that. But let's stop pretending like the wheels have somehow come off

I would still have serious concerns about the current state of the team even if we had beaten UNC on that play (assuming the rest of the season played out as it did). I also remain unconvinced that "we were projected to have x wins, and we finished with x wins" is an open and shut discussion ender for "was the season a disappointment".

[budwom]

I would still have serious concerns about the current state of the team even if we had beaten UNC on that play (assuming the rest of the season played out as it did). I also remain unconvinced that "we were projected to have x wins, and we finished with x wins" is an open and shut discussion ender for "was the season a disappointment".

Agreed. I really don't know any avid fans who watch all of our games, and attend many, who feel the offense is well coached.
With regard to expectations, I expected a down year (4-5 wins) BUT a good bounce back next year. I no longer feel that way unless the offensive woes are addressed.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

I would still have serious concerns about the current state of the team even if we had beaten UNC on that play (assuming the rest of the season played out as it did). I also remain unconvinced that "we were projected to have x wins, and we finished with x wins" is an open and shut discussion ender for "was the season a disappointment".

Well, I don't pretend to have the answer to what number of wins ought to leave fans not disappointed. But, I figure that comparing our results with the predictions of sports media folks ought to give us a reasonable bar.

I'm bowing out of this thread, as I don't care for the negativity levied at Cut, and I'm clearly in the minority in being happy with the current state of our program both on and off the field.

[sagegrouse]

Agreed. I really don't know any avid fans who watch all of our games, and attend many, who feel the offense is well coached.
With regard to expectations, I expected a down year (4-5 wins) BUT a good bounce back next year. I no longer feel that way unless the offensive woes are addressed.

Are the turnovers the primary responsibility of the coaches? Quintin , #18 on the field, had 18 TO's -- 11 interceptions and seven fumbles lost. Cost us the Pitt game, at least. He made some great plays, but....

[Acymetric]

Are the turnovers the primary responsibility of the coaches? Quintin , #18 on the field, had 18 TO's -- 11 interceptions and seven fumbles lost. Cost us the Pitt game, at least. He made some great plays, but...

I feel like I probably talk out of both sides of my mouth on this (or at least come across this way), because it is tricky. On the one hand, yes the players have to play well and execute. The coaches can't go out on the field and play for them. On the other hand, it is the coaches' responsibility to recruit, develop players, and implement schemes to mitigate player weaknesses, so "the problem is player execution or lack of quality players" still parses as a coaching problem to me (especially at the college level, I probably tend to shift more responsibility towards the players in the pros whether that is reasonable or not).

[budwom]

Are the turnovers the primary responsibility of the coaches? Quintin , #18 on the field, had 18 TO's -- 11 interceptions and seven fumbles lost. Cost us the Pitt game, at least. He made some great plays, but...

Regardless of turnovers (which were obviously horrific), our offense showed a distinct unwillingness or inability (I'm not in a position to know which) to throw the ball downfield, and as Acy mentions above, it's up to the coaches to fix that.
With one or two games left in the season, we were ranked #129 out of 130 in terms of explosive plays.

[CameronBornAndBred]

I feel like I probably talk out of both sides of my mouth on this (or at least come across this way), because it is tricky. On the one hand, yes the players have to play well and execute. The coaches can't go out on the field and play for them. On the other hand, it is the coaches' responsibility to recruit, develop players, and implement schemes to mitigate player weaknesses, so "the problem is player execution or lack of quality players" still parses as a coaching problem to me (especially at the college level, I probably tend to shift more responsibility towards the players in the pros whether that is reasonable or not).

Yup. I don't blame the players for turning it over on 1st and two, I blame the moronic coaching that called the trick play in the first place.
Do they both share some of the blame? Of course, but it's the coaches that put the players in that position in the first place. Had Jackson run and fumbled, that's different. (And of course that's the play that should have been called...just one of many.)

[jimsumner]

Well Jim, this is true, Duke has been at least 3-5 in ACC play in six of the last seven years. But I think you have to admit, that's a nice massage of reality.
Another way of looking at it is that over the past four seasons, we are 10-22 in ACC play, which would seem to be a better description of where we are now...let's see what Cut chooses to do, if anything, this off season...

Well, Bud, another poster wrote "But is it too much to ask that a program 11 years into a coach's tenure should get somewhere near .500 in their conference more consistently?"

I responded with the facts showing that Duke is consistently somewhere near .500 in their conference.

Which was the point of my response. Nothing more, nothing less.

How is that massaging reality? Move the goalposts on someone else please.

[budwom]

that is fair, Jim...but 10-22 is a pretty low bar, IMO, nothing more....

[CameronBornAndBred]

Well, Bud, another poster wrote "But is it too much to ask that a program 11 years into a coach's tenure should get somewhere near .500 in their conference more consistently?"

I responded with the facts showing that Duke is consistently somewhere near .500 in their conference.

Which was the point of my response. Nothing more, nothing less.

How is that massaging reality? Move the goalposts on someone else please.


that is fair, Jim...but 10-22 is a pretty low bar, IMO, nothing more...

Totally agree with Budwom here. "Near .500" is totally relational...one season it's not too bad, but overtime it's not close to .500 at all.

[HereBeforeCoachK]

Totally agree with Budwom here. "Near .500" is totally relational...one season it's not too bad, but overtime it's not close to .500 at all.

In fact, 10-22 is .312...in other words, "about 300" not near 500.

[uh_no]

Totally agree with Budwom here. "Near .500" is totally relational...one season it's not too bad, but overtime it's not close to .500 at all.

the 1-7 season is somewhat of an outlier.

[Bob Green]

Successfully throwing the ball downfield resulted in a victory. Duke completed 10 passes with eight receptions being by wide receivers. Four of the eight WR receptions were for greater than 15 yards.

[HereBeforeCoachK]

Successfully throwing the ball downfield resulted in a victory. Duke completed 10 passes with eight receptions being by wide receivers. Four of the eight WR receptions were for greater than 15 yards.

...you and I been saying that for what, 10 weeks now? Some others too, but I know you and I pushed that narrative.

[HereBeforeCoachK]

the 1-7 season is somewhat of an outlier.

As was the 7-1 season, or whatever 2013 was...