This Week in the ACC - 11/18-11/24

[pfrduke]

Preseason tournaments get underway this week - opportunities for titles for Duke, Virginia, and Miami (although not a ton of what you would describe as real marquee matchups in those games).

Monday
[46]Notre Dame (-23) hosts [312]Presbyterian (7:00, ACCNX)
[83]Pittsburgh (-15) hosts [252]Monmouth (7:00, ACCN)

Tuesday
[3]Virginia (-15) hosts [76]Vermont (7:00, ACCNX)
[43]NC State (-27) hosts [336]Alcorn State (7:00, ACCNX)

Wednesday
[15]Florida State (-23) hosts [261]Chattanooga (6:30, ACCNX)
[2]Louisville (-37) hosts [344]USC Upstate (7:00, ACCN)
[107]Boston College (-9) hosts [196]Eastern Washington (7:00, ACCNX)
[63]Georgia Tech (+4) at [61]Georgia (7:00, SECN+)
[44]Virginia Tech (-33) hosts [351]Delaware State (7:00, ACCNX)
[51]Syracuse (-19) hosts [284]Cornell (7:30, ACCNX)
[7]North Carolina (-32) hosts [327]Elon (8:30, ACCNX)

Thursday
[59]Miami (-8) vs. [151]Missouri State in Charleston (11:30, ESPNU)
[83]Pittsburgh (-21) hosts [341]Arkansas-Pine Bluff (7:00, ACCNX)
[72]Clemson (-29) hosts [350]Alabama A&M (7:00, ACCNX)
[46]Notre Dame (-7) hosts [75]Toledo (8:30, ACCN)
[4]Duke (-18) vs. [133]California in Madison Square Garden (9:00, ESPN3)

Friday
[59]Miami vs. [29]Florida/[199]St. Joseph's (12:00/2:00)
[4]Duke vs. [26]Texas/[69]Georgetown (5:00/7:00)
[94]Wake Forest (+6) at [66]Davidson (7:30, ESPN+)

Saturday
[3]Virginia (-19) vs. [192]Massachusetts in Mohegan Sun (12:00, ESPNN)
[107]Boston College (+2) hosts [65]Depaul (12:00, ACCNX)
[51]Syracuse (-13) hosts [138]Bucknell (12:00, ACCN)
[43]NC State (-15) hosts [157]Little Rock (1:00, ACCNX)
[15]Florida State (-20) hosts [210]St. Francis (PA) (2:00, ACCN)

Sunday
[3]Virginia vs. [78]Arizona State/[93]St. John's in Mohegan Sun (1:00/3:30)
[59]Miami vs. [27]Xavier/[77]Connecticut/[99]Buffalo/[144]Towson (TBD)
[2]Louisville (-21) hosts [127]Akron (6:00, ACCN)
[72]Clemson (+4) vs. [41]TCU in Las Vegas (10:30, ESPN2)

ACC Non-Conference: 36-4
ACC vs. Power 5: 2-1

America East:
American: 2-0
Atlantic-10:
Atlantic Sun:
Big XII: 1-1
Big East:
Big Sky:
Big South: 5-0
Big Ten:
Big West:
Colonial: 3-0
CUSA: 3-1
Horizon: 3-0
Ivy: 2-0
MAAC:
MAC:
MEAC: 3-0
MVC: 1-0
MWC: 1-0
Northeast: 4-0
Ohio Valley: 0-1
Pac-12:
Patriot: 3-0
SEC: 1-0
Southern: 1-0
Southland: 1-1
Sun Belt: 1-0
SWAC:
WAC: 1-0
WCC:

[Acymetric]

Wednesday
[7]North Carolina (-32) hosts [327]Elon (8:30, ACCNX)

Upset city!!!

[devildeac]

Upset city!!!

As always, 9F.

[Hartford Dukie]

pfr- First ], thanks for doing this. It's great. Two things in addition.

Why not make the ACC's record against the P6 in basketball and include the Big East - which is as at least as good as, if not better than the Pac12?

Second, and this is broader question, I thought the Duke-Cal game was to be on ESPN 2- and when I just checked ESPN does indeed list it on ESPN3 - though the Georgetown vs. Texas game is on the deuce at 7:00. They are really going to put the #1 team on ESPN3?

[pfrduke]

pfr- First ], thanks for doing this. It's great. Two things in addition.

Why not make the ACC's record against the P6 in basketball and include the Big East - which is as at least as good as, if not better than the Pac12?

Second, and this is broader question, I thought the Duke-Cal game was to be on ESPN 2- and when I just checked ESPN does indeed list it on ESPN3 - though the Georgetown vs. Texas game is on the deuce at 7:00. They are really going to put the #1 team on ESPN3?

It does include the Big East. I guess it would be more accurate to describe it as P6, but it's meant to capture record against the Big XII, Big Ten, Big East, SEC, and Pac-12, which is why I used 5.

[CameronBlue]

Upset city!!!

Yup, hope Elon goes all Goodfellas on them, smashes them in the head with a shovel and buries them in a shallow grave. Metaphorically speaking of course.

[Hartford Dukie]

It does include the Big East. I guess it would be more accurate to describe it as P6, but it's meant to capture record against the Big XII, Big Ten, Big East, SEC, and Pac-12, which is why I used 5.

Got it! Thanks.

[Stray Gator]

. . . Second, and this is broader question, I thought the Duke-Cal game was to be on ESPN 2- and when I just checked ESPN does indeed list it on ESPN3 - though the Georgetown vs. Texas game is on the deuce at 7:00. They are really going to put the #1 team on ESPN3?

According to the schedule on Spectrum cable here in Orlando, the Duke vs. Cal game will be televised on ESPN2 at 9:00 p.m. (though I think we can assume that tip-off will not occur until around 9:30, allowing the normal time for warm-ups following the Texas vs. Georgetown game).

[Hartford Dukie]

According to the schedule on Spectrum cable here in Orlando, the Duke vs. Cal game will be televised on ESPN2 at 9:00 p.m. (though I think we can assume that tip-off will not occur until around 9:30, allowing the normal time for warm-ups following the Texas vs. Georgetown game).

Thanks. That's what I always thought, but scroll down the ESPN NCAAM schedule for Thursday and you'll see its listed as ESPN3.

https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/schedule/_/date/20191121/group/50

[OldPhiKap]

Monday — cannot see either game in my market.

Tuesday — cannot see either game here.

Wednesday — seven games, none on television where I live.

Thursday — can watch two of five.

Friday — yay, two of three! Too bad it’s Friday night and viewership is low.

Saturday - one of five.

Sunday — yay, a game or two against NFL programming and then a game that won’t end before midnight.


THUMBS UP, ACCN!

[gep]

Thanks. That's what I always thought, but scroll down the ESPN NCAAM schedule for Thursday and you'll see its listed as ESPN3.

https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/schedule/_/date/20191121/group/50

Interesting. On ESPN.com, under "Watch", the Duke/Cal game is on ESPN-U. Spectrum has it on ESPN2. I don't see it on ESPN3... but go figure:confused: GoDuke.com also says ESPN2. They are making this rocket science...

[budwom]

Vicious Catamount of Vermont visit Virginia tonight, Cats coming off a nice road victory at St Johns Saturday...has the makings of a halftime score of 25-20....UVA will win, but the Cats have one of the best players you probably haven't heard of, Anthony Lamb...he could play for Duke, would be a potential starter...probably insufficiently athletic for the NBA, but a terrific, savvy college player.

[TruBlu]

Vicious Catamount of Vermont visit Virginia tonight, Cats coming off a nice road victory at St Johns Saturday...has the makings of a halftime score of 25-20...UVA will win, but the Cats have one of the best players you probably haven't heard of, Anthony Lamb...he could play for Duke, would be a potential starter...probably insufficiently athletic for the NBA, but a terrific, savvy college player.

Will UVA silence the Lamb?

[Wahoo2000]

Vicious Catamount of Vermont visit Virginia tonight, Cats coming off a nice road victory at St Johns Saturday...has the makings of a halftime score of 25-20...UVA will win, but the Cats have one of the best players you probably haven't heard of, Anthony Lamb...he could play for Duke, would be a potential starter...probably insufficiently athletic for the NBA, but a terrific, savvy college player.

This one was your typical UVA (insanely low pace, great D, meh offense) game in the first half. Only 27 possessions, UVA was up 24-18 at half. Vermont came out in the second half and it was like they decided, "we're not getting anywhere running offense, we're going to start pulling from 3, and if they go in, we're in good shape". And that's exactly what happened, Vermont hit something like 7 of their first 10 attempts from 3 in the second half, with Lamb going on a absolute tear at one point, hitting 6 straight (and in just like 8 possessions). He was pulling from anywhere and everywhere. Crazy deep, contested, off balance, it was a little of everything. VERY reminiscent of the game Carson Edwards had against the Hoos in the E8 last year. Diakite, Clark, and Key really stepped up though and carried UVA offensively during that stretch to keep Vermont from ever getting more than one possession ahead. Eventually, Vermont's shooting cooled and the Hoos prevailed.

This defense is REALLY good. I mean REALLY good - even compared to some of the past teams with guys like Anderson/Brogdon/Harris on the perimeter and Mitchell/Atkins/Gill inside. The offense does still need a little work, but I don't think it's nearly as bad as those who simply check the box scores/stats do. UVA is getting quality looks and just (right now) getting *HORRIFIC* jumpshooting from guys like Morsell/Stattmann/Woldetensae. All of those guys are capable shooters (based on rep and stats entering the program). If they're even able to be 30-33%ish from 3, and in the mid 40s from midrange, the UVA offense will take a LARGE leap in efficiency. Until that happens, the UVA offense is a legitimate question mark - probably only a top 40-50ish kenpom off eff rank. If that shooting from those role players jumps though, Virginia will end up as a team with more of a top 15-20ish offense. And *maybe* the best defense of the Bennett era.

[OldPhiKap]

This one was your typical UVA (insanely low pace, great D, meh offense) game in the first half. Only 27 possessions, UVA was up 24-18 at half. Vermont came out in the second half and it was like they decided, "we're not getting anywhere running offense, we're going to start pulling from 3, and if they go in, we're in good shape". And that's exactly what happened, Vermont hit something like 7 of their first 10 attempts from 3 in the second half, with Lamb going on a absolute tear at one point, hitting 6 straight (and in just like 8 possessions). He was pulling from anywhere and everywhere. Crazy deep, contested, off balance, it was a little of everything. VERY reminiscent of the game Carson Edwards had against the Hoos in the E8 last year. Diakite, Clark, and Key really stepped up though and carried UVA offensively during that stretch to keep Vermont from ever getting more than one possession ahead. Eventually, Vermont's shooting cooled and the Hoos prevailed.

This defense is REALLY good. I mean REALLY good - even compared to some of the past teams with guys like Anderson/Brogdon/Harris on the perimeter and Mitchell/Atkins/Gill inside. The offense does still need a little work, but I don't think it's nearly as bad as those who simply check the box scores/stats do. UVA is getting quality looks and just (right now) getting *HORRIFIC* jumpshooting from guys like Morsell/Stattmann/Woldetensae. All of those guys are capable shooters (based on rep and stats entering the program). If they're even able to be 30-33%ish from 3, and in the mid 40s from midrange, the UVA offense will take a LARGE leap in efficiency. Until that happens, the UVA offense is a legitimate question mark - probably only a top 40-50ish kenpom off eff rank. If that shooting from those role players jumps though, Virginia will end up as a team with more of a top 15-20ish offense. And *maybe* the best defense of the Bennett era.

If only it was on a network that people could all watch.

[Wahoo2000]

If only it was on a network that people could all watch.

Hmm. I figured most non-UVa fans would be pleased at the idea of *NOT* watching a UVA game/atrocity. lol :D

[budwom]

Will UVA silence the Lamb?

He scored 30, and UVA didn't get the lead for good until about five minutes left, so the answer would be "no." Entertaining game.

[HereBeforeCoachK]

This one was your typical UVA (insanely low pace, great D, meh offense) game in the first half. Only 27 possessions, UVA was up 24-18 at half. Vermont came out in the second half and it was like they decided, "we're not getting anywhere running offense, we're going to start pulling from 3, and if they go in, we're in good shape". And that's exactly what happened, Vermont hit something like 7 of their first 10 attempts from 3 in the second half, with Lamb going on a absolute tear at one point, hitting 6 straight (and in just like 8 possessions). He was pulling from anywhere and everywhere. Crazy deep, contested, off balance, it was a little of everything. VERY reminiscent of the game Carson Edwards had against the Hoos in the E8 last year. Diakite, Clark, and Key really stepped up though and carried UVA offensively during that stretch to keep Vermont from ever getting more than one possession ahead. Eventually, Vermont's shooting cooled and the Hoos prevailed.

This defense is REALLY good. I mean REALLY good - even compared to some of the past teams with guys like Anderson/Brogdon/Harris on the perimeter and Mitchell/Atkins/Gill inside. The offense does still need a little work, but I don't think it's nearly as bad as those who simply check the box scores/stats do. UVA is getting quality looks and just (right now) getting *HORRIFIC* jumpshooting from guys like Morsell/Stattmann/Woldetensae. All of those guys are capable shooters (based on rep and stats entering the program). If they're even able to be 30-33%ish from 3, and in the mid 40s from midrange, the UVA offense will take a LARGE leap in efficiency. Until that happens, the UVA offense is a legitimate question mark - probably only a top 40-50ish kenpom off eff rank. If that shooting from those role players jumps though, Virginia will end up as a team with more of a top 15-20ish offense. And *maybe* the best defense of the Bennett era.

If Bennett can have a really nice season this year, it will be a great statement on the program being really solid, after the big year last year and losing a lot of talent. Not a bad analogy would be Duke 87, which was a pleasant surprise given all the talent leaving after 86, when they were clearly the best team in the nation.

[ShaneRyan]

I will be attempting to watch UNC tonight on the ACCN, which means I look forward to Clemson vs. Boston College in club candlepin bowling.

[English]

If Bennett can have a really nice season this year, it will be a great statement on the program being really solid, after the big year last year and losing a lot of talent. Not a bad analogy would be Duke 87, which was a pleasant surprise given all the talent leaving after 86, when they were clearly the best team in the nation.

Is this an open question for anyone anymore? Of course UVa under Bennett is a really solid program. How many consecutive years do we need to see them excel in this style?

The biggest upset last night had to be the UVa-Vermont game hitting the over, which was a laughable 110 at tip. Really, really hard to watch them play unless you're a Cavalier or a masochist.

[dukelion]

Ummm....Louisville having trouble with SC Upstate.....who are currently KenPom's 346th ranked team.......yikes.

[dukelion]

Ummm...Louisville having trouble with SC Upstate....who are currently KenPom's 346th ranked team....yikes.

And I'll add that they were 36.5 pt favs going in.

[jhmoss1812]

Really, really hard to watch them play unless you're a Cavalier or a masochist.

One and the same, my friend

[proelitedota]

Roy used a timeout not 5 minutes into the game against Elon. Is everything ok down in hell?

[Dr. Rosenrosen]

Armando Bacot = Beaker. Look it up if you must.

[HereBeforeCoachK]

Roy used a timeout not 5 minutes into the game against Elon. Is everything ok down in hell?

Nope. Elon up 1 at the break.

[ncexnyc]

Just noticed that former Duke player Derryck Thornton is now with Boston College. Talk about a long, strange trip.

[English]

Ummm...Louisville having trouble with SC Upstate....who are currently KenPom's 346th ranked team....yikes.

Just some more supporting data to the "perhaps Duke isn't so overrated, but instead plenty of the top teams have glaring questions" hypothesis. Unx struggling most of the night with the Phoenix is more. Top-25 Memphis (of course, without James Wiseman, who's suspended 12 games) had trouble with Little Rock.

[Wahoo2000]

Just some more supporting data to the "perhaps Duke isn't so overrated, but instead plenty of the top teams have glaring questions" hypothesis. Unx struggling most of the night with the Phoenix is more. Top-25 Memphis (of course, without James Wiseman, who's suspended 12 games) had trouble with Little Rock.

I really do think it's a down year (at least at the top) in CBB this season. I don't see ANY teams out there that look "dominant", i.e. likely to only lose 2-3 games total in the regular season, aside from ones like the Zags, who are always a threat to do so based on the WCC's weakness. Could one (or more) develop? Sure, but right now, NOBODY looks like a world-beater, and I wouldn't be surprised by ANY top 5-10 team losing to a top 30-50ish squad.

[mkirsh]

Roy used a timeout not 5 minutes into the game against Elon. Is everything ok down in hell?

And the rotation only went 7 deep and he played 20+ mins with only 1 post player. I guess after landing a one-and-done player all the sacred cows are on the table

[Truth&Justise]

Notre Dame played a pretty bonkers game last night to beat Toledo.

Captured well in this twitter thread, which shows (https://twitter.com/CardChronicle/status/1197715491843956737):

1) One of the worst foul calls I've ever seen

2) Up by three with a 6.8 seconds left, Toledo intentionally fouled. Prentiss Hubb missed the front end of a one-and-one, which lead to this insane sequence (starting at the 1:11 mark of this video):


https://youtu.be/A7AePjd3T8M?t=71

3) Notre Dame then hit a game tying three anyway

4) Toledo's only field goal in overtime was a halfcourt heave at the buzzer that wasn't even shown on TV--the camera cut away to show the coaches shaking hands.

[JasonEvans]

Notre Dame played a pretty bonkers game last night to beat Toledo.

Captured well in this twitter thread, which shows (https://twitter.com/CardChronicle/status/1197715491843956737):

1) One of the worst foul calls I've ever seen

It was a truly insane call... and one of the many replies says, "Gotta be Mike Eades"...

To which Mike Eades himself actually replies with this: https://twitter.com/i/status/1197722334943207424

-Jason "I might have to revise my opinion of Eades... strong twitter game there" Evans

[OldPhiKap]

It was a truly insane call... and one of the many replies says, "Gotta be Mike Eades"...

To which Mike Eades himself actually replies with this: https://twitter.com/i/status/1197722334943207424

-Jason "I might have to revise my opinion of Eades... strong twitter game there" Evans

Check the pinned bio -- that is a parody account.

Still, pretty damn funny.

[tbyers11]

I watched the second half of the UVA-AZ ST game this afternoon. This is the first that I've watched UVA play this year outside of 5 min against Vermont.

The final score was 48-45. To say that UVA is offensively challenged is offensive to offenses everywhere. UVA led 26-16 with 1 min left in the first half. They didn't score again for nearly 8 minutes during a 19-0 AZ ST run. However, due to their very strong defense and AZ ST not being very good they held the Sun Devils scoreless from the 11 min to the 4 min mark of the 2nd half and the game was a tossup with 4 minutes left.

Thanks to some clutch shots from freshman Casey Morsell and an AND-1 in which Diakite may have initiated the contact with the defender (he did) they emerged victorious. Morsell looked pretty good (however a quick check of Ken Pom showed this was BY FAR his best offensive game) and Diakite looks much more polished from the perimeter and will be their primary offensive weapon. Key, Clark, and Huff showed offensive flashes last year as the 4th or 5th option. I am not sure they have improved to where they can be the 2nd option. Perhaps Morsell can be the 2nd option or perhaps it is early and one of them will grow into the role. After all, Duke's offense is not particularly polished yet either.

All that being said, UVA's defense is still top notch. That combined with their glacial pace limiting possessions will still make them a top team in the ACC race. I don't see them winning the ACC or being a 1 or 2 seed in the NCAA (which they have been 5 of the last 6 years). However, none of the top teams look like TOP teams this year so who knows.

[ElliottHoo]

I watched the second half of the UVA-AZ ST game this afternoon. This is the first that I've watched UVA play this year outside of 5 min against Vermont.

The final score was 48-45. To say that UVA is offensively challenged is offensive to offenses everywhere. UVA led 26-16 with 1 min left in the first half. They didn't score again for nearly 8 minutes during a 19-0 AZ ST run. However, due to their very strong defense and AZ ST not being very good they held the Sun Devils scoreless from the 11 min to the 4 min mark of the 2nd half and the game was a tossup with 4 minutes left.

Thanks to some clutch shots from freshman Casey Morsell and an AND-1 in which Diakite may have initiated the contact with the defender (he did) they emerged victorious. Morsell looked pretty good (however a quick check of Ken Pom showed this was BY FAR his best offensive game) and Diakite looks much more polished from the perimeter and will be their primary offensive weapon. Key, Clark, and Huff showed offensive flashes last year as the 4th or 5th option. I am not sure they have improved to where they can be the 2nd option. Perhaps Morsell can be the 2nd option or perhaps it is early and one of them will grow into the role. After all, Duke's offense is not particularly polished yet either.

All that being said, UVA's defense is still top notch. That combined with their glacial pace limiting possessions will still make them a top team in the ACC race. I don't see them winning the ACC or being a 1 or 2 seed in the NCAA (which they have been 5 of the last 6 years). However, none of the top teams look like TOP teams this year so who knows.

Yeah, given all that UVA lost I thought the AP was crazy to rank UVA as high as they did preseason, and I’m even more astonished they’re ranked 7th. But then I go through and try to find more than 6 teams who are clearly better than UVA and it’s tough. Sure, if someone says they’re actually 8th or 10th, I won’t quibble. But getting much lower than that is a stretch.

Same thing with Duke at #1. They don’t FEEL like a dominant team to me, but then I try to think of who deserves it more and I come up empty. It’s just a year that, so far, just doesn’t have a dominant team.

This year’s UVA team feels overall very comparable to our 2017 squad (that squad had crushing D and all outside shooting with no interior O while this team is the reverse) which was a 5-seed. This year’s team feels like it’s on pace to be a 2 or 3-seed, and I think the difference is an odd lack of strong teams at the top pushing UVA towards the 4-seed it should actually deserve.

[Troublemaker]

Yeah, given all that UVA lost I thought the AP was crazy to rank UVA as high as they did preseason, and I’m even more astonished they’re ranked 7th.

It happens to all champs. Villanova was ranked top-10 in the preseason last year (http://collegepollarchive.com/mbasketball/ap/seasons.cfm?appollid=1165), for example.


But then I go through and try to find more than 6 teams who are clearly better than UVA and it’s tough. Sure, if someone says they’re actually 8th or 10th, I won’t quibble. But getting much lower than that is a stretch.

I could probably name 15 teams better than UVA, as long as our Hoo friends like you don't take offense.

I mean, why is UVA better than kenpom #16 team Oregon, for example. On a neutral, I would definitely take the Ducks to win. Same with kenpom #13 Arizona.

This early in the season, a lot of rankings shakeup will be forthcoming -- both with kenpom and human rankings -- and UVA's most likely direction is down.

[ElliottHoo]

It happens to all champs. Villanova was ranked top-10 in the preseason last year (http://collegepollarchive.com/mbasketball/ap/seasons.cfm?appollid=1165), for example.

Which I'd agree looked overenthusiastic at the time. That Nova team had a great incoming recruiting class but it lost even more than UVA did. Worth remembering is that they ended the season ranked 20th which isn't a complete disaster for a team ranked 9th pre-season.



I could probably name 15 teams better than UVA, as long as our Hoo friends like you don't take offense.

I mean, why is UVA better than kenpom #16 team Oregon, for example. On a neutral, I would definitely take the Ducks to win. Same with kenpom #13 Arizona.

This early in the season, a lot of rankings shakeup will be forthcoming -- both with kenpom and human rankings -- and UVA's most likely direction is down.

Thats thoughtful of you, but any hoops fan who posts on another team's board and doesn't have 6" thick skin is asking for whatever hurt feelings come their way. I've got a list in mind, but it felt presumptuous to post it.

Briefly, I agree with you on Oregon (tough, but slightly under-the-radar schedule and they've been blowing everyone out. I'd pick them over UVA, too), disagree with you on Arizona (gaudy win margin, but they've yet to play even a neutral site game and their schedule has been heavy on cupcakes. If they torch Baylor as well then it'll be a different story), and certainly agree on likely coming shake-ups. As others have said, there aren't any dominant teams and I think anyone in the top 10 can lose to anyone in the top 25-40 on any given night.

As a result, a lot of movement is likely, and since its insane UVA is #4 on KenPom (KenPom rocks, but its still pretty early in the season to take his numbers super-seriously as they're still massively weighted towards last year) I agree they have nowhere to go but down. For the AP poll, #7 seems high so it'll probably go down, but I think lots of teams will be yo-yo-ing up and down all year. I doubt UVA will look all that much different from anyone else between about 5 and 15 and will probably end the season in that range.

I still think Duke, Kansas, Kentucky and Michigan State are in a top tier by themselves, but I don't think the distance between them and then next ~10 or so is as big as it was, say, last year, and I don't think the gap between that next 10 and the ~25 after them is particularly big at all.