James Wiseman Ineligible

[kAzE]

https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1192935429835755522?s=20

Sucks to be Boogie Ellis. Coulda went to Duke :)

[JasonEvans]

Details are still coming in, but obviously this is huge news for Memphis. Reminds me a bit of what happened to Missouri when Porter got injured in what I think was their very first game. Though, obviously, this is not an injury situation and is potentially far more serious for the program.

[Hartford Dukie]

https://wreg.com/2019/11/08/attorney-james-wiseman-ineligible-to-play-for-memphis-basketball/

MEMPHIS, Tenn. — Local attorney Leslie Ballin said Memphis basketball player James Wiseman has been ruled ineligible to play for the University of Memphis.

Ballin said the NCAA declared Wiseman ineligible to play at Memphis because head coach Penny Hardaway helped Wiseman move from Nashville to Memphis. Hardaway is considered a booster by the NCAA because he donated to the U of M in 2008.

Ballin said he has filed a lawsuit against the NCAA and the U of M.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Whoopsies. So much for wondering how they locked down that recruitment class.

[JasonEvans]

Wiseman had 28 and 11 in the Tigers first game. If you are a NBA scout considering a top three, or possibly the number one, pick on him. That’s all the tape you get.

[JasonEvans]

Yikes! It now appears that the problem is that Penny Hardaway helped out Wiseman’s family and encouraged them to move to the city of Memphis. Didn’t take him very long on the job to get in trouble with the NCAA, did it?

[Boone Devil]

According to ESPN, Coach Hardaway “assisted Wiseman and his family’s move to Memphis” and “the NCAA seems Hardaway a booster.” https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/28037071/potential-top-nba-draft-pick-james-wiseman-ineligible-memphis

[bullettoothtony]

That's obviously big news. I know it was only one game but he looked as advertised... every bit of it.

[proelitedota]

Play dumb games, win dumb prizes.

[BD80]

https://wreg.com/2019/11/08/attorney-james-wiseman-ineligible-to-play-for-memphis-basketball/

MEMPHIS, Tenn. — Local attorney Leslie Ballin said Memphis basketball player James Wiseman has been ruled ineligible to play for the University of Memphis.

Ballin said the NCAA declared Wiseman ineligible to play at Memphis because head coach Penny Hardaway helped Wiseman move from Nashville to Memphis. Hardaway is considered a booster by the NCAA because he donated to the U of M in 2008.

Ballin said he has filed a lawsuit against the NCAA and the U of M.

If he hadn't been a booster, it would have been OK as the head coach?

[brevity]

Can we consolidate the three threads about this? This thread is vastly superior to the other two because kAzE actually provided a link.

[roywhite]

Can we consolidate the three threads about this? This thread is vastly superior to the other two because kAzE actually provided a link.

This Wiseman guy...is he eligible?

[Chicago 1995]

Memphis got a TRO against the NCAA. Wiseman can play tonight, in theory.

Go Memphis. Burn the NCAA to the ground.

[Chicago 1995]

Yikes! It now appears that the problem is that Penny Hardaway helped out Wiseman’s family and encouraged them to move to the city of Memphis. Didn’t take him very long on the job to get in trouble with the NCAA, did it?

Thing is, this has been known for literally years. The Tenneseee HS sports governing body knew about it. The NCAA changed its mind, have told Memphis he was eligible earlier this week.

Why now? What changed? Why couldn’t the NCAA have ruled before now?

Never mind that the NCAA won’t touch widespread academic fraud or covering up for a serial pedophile, but a little cash? Bring on the wolves! The NCAA needs to go. Start over.

[JasonEvans]

Memphis is appealing and Wiseman will play tonight. This is going to get interesting.

[JetpackJesus]

Thing is, this has been known for literally years. The Tenneseee HS sports governing body knew about it. The NCAA changed its mind, have told Memphis he was eligible earlier this week.

Why now? What changed? Why couldn’t the NCAA have ruled before now?

Never mind that the NCAA won’t touch widespread academic fraud or covering up for a serial pedophile, but a little cash? Bring on the wolves! The NCAA needs to go. Start over.

To your third question, this is a blistering pace for the NCAA. Imagine if they declared him ineligible after winning 38 games and appearing in the NCAA Finals instead?

To your first two questions, according to this article (https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/28037071/ncaa-rules-memphis-james-wiseman-ineligible-top-prospect-gets-stay-play-friday) the NCAA continued to investigate after deeming him eligible in May, and the investigation eventually uncovered documentation of the $11,500 in moving expenses Penny gave the family. I have no idea if that justifies the NCAA's action. I don't have enough information to say one way or the other, though my inclination always is to believe the NCAA got it wrong.

[JetpackJesus]

If he hadn't been a booster, it would have been OK as the head coach?

Well, he wasn't Memphis' coach at the time he made the payment in 2017, and he wasn't affiliated with the school yet. So maybe that's why the booster classification matters in this situation?

[duke96]

Can we consolidate the three threads about this? This thread is vastly superior to the other two because kAzE actually provided a link.

Ineligible also is spelled correctly in this thread title!

[DUKIE V(A)]

Before the NCAA rules Wiseman ineligible, shouldn’t they at least make certain Penny didn’t help any non-athletes relocate into the Memphis area?

[Ima Facultiwyfe]

Before the NCAA rules Wiseman ineligible, shouldn’t they at least make certain Penny didn’t help any non-athletes relocate into the Memphis area?

GOOD one!
Love, Ima

[FerryFor50]

Pretty sure I called out possible shady business when a first time head coach at Memphis was landing top 10 recruits - NBA pedigree or not.

[Steven43]

Pretty sure I called out possible shady business when a first time head coach at Memphis was landing top 10 recruits - NBA pedigree or not.

Same here. None of his recruits had ever heard of Penny Hardaway, I promise you. He ceased being an All Star-level player over 20 years ago, before any of these recruits were even born. The whole thing is such a farce.

[unclsam1]

Memphis got a TRO against the NCAA. Wiseman can play tonight, in theory.

Go Memphis. Burn the NCAA to the ground.

Or Memphis burning their eligibility to be in the NCAA tournament per commentary by Bilas during Washington-Baylor game.

[Coballs]

Penny and Memphis busted for cheating after just one game of his coaching career. What a surprise. Who could have possibly seen this coming?!?

[Dukehk]

Penny and Memphis busted for cheating after just one game of his coaching career. What a surprise. Who could have possibly seen this coming?!?

I don't think you can call it "cheating" per say.

Penny was a high school coach at the time, and he helped Wiseman and family move to Memphis to play under him where they won the state title.

It was only afterwards that Penny was appointed the head coach at Memphis. Nobody could have predicted that at the time he helped James. Nor was he breaking any rules during the time he was helping James.

There is something WRONG with the NCAA system. It needs to be fixed.

If you think Penny is a "bad" guy then watch this documentary: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eyX0H-jPkyc

[Steven43]

I don't think you can call it "cheating" per say.

Penny was a high school coach at the time, and he helped Wiseman and family move to Memphis to play under him where they won the state title.

It was only afterwards that Penny was appointed the head coach at Memphis. Nobody could have predicted that at the time he helped James. Nor was he breaking any rules during the time he was helping James.

There is something WRONG with the NCAA system. It needs to be fixed.

If you think Penny is a "bad" guy then watch this documentary: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eyX0H-jPkyc

Hmm.....I don't think anyone was saying Penny is a bad guy. Just questioning how he could basically come out of nowhere as a coach, arrive at a mediocre school, and suddenly have the #1 ranked class in the country. You don't question it?

[Blue in the Face]

Same here. None of his recruits had ever heard of Penny Hardaway, I promise you. He ceased being an All Star-level player over 20 years ago, before any of these recruits were even born. The whole thing is such a farce.
Don't ever change.

[jimsumner]

Same here. None of his recruits had ever heard of Penny Hardaway, I promise you. He ceased being an All Star-level player over 20 years ago, before any of these recruits were even born. The whole thing is such a farce.

Hardaway is a legend in and around Memphis.

[UrinalCake]

Getting to more important matters... the last name of Wiseman’s attorney is “Ballin”?!? That is awesome. I can think of so many great names for his law firm.

[Owen Meany]

In the words of Tubby Smith's lawyer, "it’s the worst kept secret in America that (Hardaway) wanted the job and there may come a time when coach has exited that he'll get the job.”

It was well known, both nationally and locally, that Penny was angling for Tubby's job, that the folks in Memphis were looking for an excuse to make the change sooner rather than later, and that Penny was expected to bring Wiseman and a couple of other of his AAU kids with him. It is possible these were all rumors, but given that it played out exactly as rumored, it's doubtful. Given how quickly the whispers started after Tubby's hire, the only question seemed to be why Memphis didn't hire Hardaway directly after Pastner and skip The Tubby era altogether.

The NCAA has problems, but I don't believe this ($12,000 moving expenses for the family of the #1 recruit to move in state) is one of them.

[Steven43]

Hardaway is a legend in and around Memphis.

Yes, that is true. He is well-known in Memphis. But what is his coaching resume? Why would the top recruits in the country entrust their college basketball experience to an unproven coach like Hardaway? Just because he was a good NBA player 20 years ago and well-known in the area? Maybe that’s enough for some big-time high school recruits and their families; I don’t know. I also don’t know the REAL reasons behind how Hardaway was able to get these top recruits. Let’s just say I have my doubts that everything was done above-board.

From what I understand Hardaway gave Wiseman’s family $11,000-plus to move to Memphis so he could be on Hardaway’s team. I have a hard time believing that he (Hardaway) did it out of the kindness of his heart. I suspect he was simply trying to help ensure he could recruit Wiseman to Memphis if he became the head coach. And it worked. I’m really surprised more DBR posters aren’t skeptical about this whole thing.

[Nugget]

Hmm....I don't think anyone was saying Penny is a bad guy. Just questioning how he could basically come out of nowhere as a coach, arrive at a mediocre school, and suddenly have the #1 ranked class in the country. You don't question it?

Actually, it's not much of a surprise at all. Memphis is a proud, historically strong, program, with an extremely rich recruiting base of local talent. And Penny is the best player in program history, who is a very popular native of the city. And, he'd headed a strong local AAU program before becoming a HS coach there. This does seem to have been some incredibly reckless behavior, though. How Penny didn't think he would be deemed a Memphis booster at the time of paying for Weisman's move is mind boggling.

[Edouble]

Why would the top recruits in the country entrust their college basketball experience to an unproven coach like Hardaway? Just because he was a good NBA player 20 years ago and well-known in the area? Maybe that’s enough for some big-time high school recruits and their families; I don’t know. I also don’t know the REAL reasons behind how Hardaway was able to get these top recruits. Let’s just say I have my doubts that everything was done above-board.

Eh, you imply that you do know the real reasons.


Hmm...I don't think anyone was saying Penny is a bad guy. Just questioning how he could basically come out of nowhere as a coach, arrive at a mediocre school, and suddenly have the #1 ranked class in the country. You don't question it?


Actually, it's not much of a surprise at all. Memphis is a proud, historically strong, program, with an extremely rich recruiting base of local talent. And Penny is the best player in program history, who is a very popular native of the city. And, he'd headed a strong local AAU program before becoming a HS coach there. This does seem to have been some incredibly reckless behavior, though. How Penny didn't think he would be deemed a Memphis booster at the time of paying for Weisman's move is mind boggling.

Memphis is not a mediocre program.

The fact that their three previous coaches include two coaches who have also coached the Kentucky Wildcats to national championships proves that they are not mediocre. This is just wrong.

[Steven43]

Eh, you imply that you do know the real reasons.





Memphis is not a mediocre program.

The fact that their three previous coaches include two coaches who have also coached the Kentucky Wildcats to national championships proves that they are not mediocre. This is just wrong.

I have to question your deductive reasoning on this one. I did not imply I know the actual real reasons Hardaway was able to get top recruits. I just said I’m skeptical that everything was done above board. We already have proof of improper dealings with Wiseman. You don’t consider that to be a MAJOR red flag?

And mediocre means average. You don’t think Memphis has been roughly average during the past few decades (late 80’s to present) outside of the Slimeapari cheating years (which I don’t count)? Mediocre is not bad, it’s average.

[BD80]

Getting to more important matters... the last name of Wiseman’s attorney is “Ballin”?!? That is awesome. I can think of so many great names for his law firm.

Oooh. If he was ever unjustly imprisoned by a cantankerous judge for contempt of court, the protest signs we could carry demanding his release!

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

I have to question your deductive reasoning on this one. I did not imply I know the actual real reasons Hardaway was able to get top recruits. I just said I’m skeptical that everything was done above board. We already have proof of improper dealings with Wiseman. You don’t consider that to be a MAJOR red flag?

And mediocre means average. You don’t think Memphis has been roughly average during the past few decades (late 80’s to present) outside of the Slimeapari cheating years (which I don’t count)? Mediocre is not bad, it’s average.

A little convenient to ignore the four straight seasons in the second weekend of the tournament.

Sure, he's a turd of a slimy coach, but you can't discount those seasons as a part of Memphis's overall relevance and as a factor in recruiting just because we all hate the coach.

I mean, I guess you can, but it seems like you are willfully ignoring the obvious.

[porkpa]

This isn't uniques to either Penny or Memphis. I'm pretty certain it does and has occurred at every big time college hoops program.
How many top Duke, UK, UNC or any other top schools have found close family members suddenly moving to to the areas where their sons are now playing. Off the top of my head, I can think of at least half a dozen Duke players where this has happened. I can't say for certain that they have received financial compensation for doing so. That's just the way the game is played. Wealthy alumni secure jobs for the family members and the families move.

[Steven43]

A little convenient to ignore the four straight seasons in the second weekend of the tournament.

Sure, he's a turd of a slimy coach, but you can't discount those seasons as a part of Memphis's overall relevance and as a factor in recruiting just because we all hate the coach.

I mean, I guess you can, but it seems like you are willfully ignoring the obvious.

Okay, these are fair points. I’ll concede this one.

[ChillinDuke]

I can't comment on Penny's morals as a person or as a recruiter. But to imply that Penny Hardaway is some sort of also-ran player/coach that no one has ever heard of and that doesn't deserve to be considered by top recruits at a program like Memphis is laughable. Chris Mullin? Patrick Ewing? Juwan Howard? These guys all recruited/are recruiting at a high level on day one. Why shouldn't Penny?

- Chillin

[Steven43]

I can't comment on Penny's morals as a person or as a recruiter. But to imply that Penny Hardaway is some sort of also-ran player/coach that no one has ever heard of and that doesn't deserve to be considered by top recruits at a program like Memphis is laughable. Chris Mullin? Patrick Ewing? Juwan Howard? These guys all recruited/are recruiting at a high level on day one. Why shouldn't Penny?

- Chillin

You are putting words into the mouths of posters that were never said. No one said Hardaway is an also-ran. The point was that he is not some huge name weighing heavily on the minds of current high school kids like it would be if, say, Lebron James were to retire in two years and decide to go into coaching. In that case I could easily see James immediately getting the top recruiting class in the nation. But a 20-years-since-he’s-been-relevant Hardaway is not in that same universe.

Also, Chris Mullin and Patrick Ewing have not had anything even approaching the top recruiting class in the nation, so why are you listing them as somehow supporting your point? They don’t. And Howard at Michigan is doing alright so far, but not anything like what Hardaway has done in getting the top class in the nation.

And Michigan is in a category well above Memphis. They play in one of the two best basketball conferences in the country and they had huge success immediately prior to Howard taking over. Memphis is below Michigan’s level on both counts. So no, I don’t think your comments support the point you are trying to make and certainly do not indicate that mine or FerryFor50’s comments about this situation are “laughable”.

[freshmanjs]

It was only afterwards that Penny was appointed the head coach at Memphis. Nobody could have predicted that at the time he helped James. Nor was he breaking any rules during the time he was helping James.



Except for the fact that just about everyone who was paying attention predicted it at the time. There have been rumors all along that Penny would become the Memphis coach and bring Wiseman with him. That was his best angle to get the job.

[YmoBeThere]

A little convenient to ignore the four straight seasons in the second weekend of the tournament.

Sure, he's a turd of a slimy coach, but you can't discount those seasons as a part of Memphis's overall relevance and as a factor in recruiting just because we all hate the coach.

I mean, I guess you can, but it seems like you are willfully ignoring the obvious.

Those 4 straight were 5 years ago.

What I do find interesting is everyone ignoring the institutional history at Memphis. Between 5 Dana Kirk and 1 Calipari season being vacated, the weirdness that Pastner went through, you would think they would be more careful in their next hiring. Apparently none of the above mattered.

[MChambers]

Before the NCAA rules Wiseman ineligible, shouldn’t they at least make certain Penny didn’t help any non-athletes relocate into the Memphis area?

According to Gary Parrish, that may be an argument: "Geoff Calkins, a columnist at The Daily Memphian, wrote late Friday that one possible defense could be that Hardaway has helped dozens, if not hundreds, of families over the years -- both families of athletes and non-athletes."

https://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/like-it-or-not-a-major-ncaa-rule-appears-to-have-been-broken-in-james-wiseman-case-but-memphis-will-fight/

[devildeac]

According to Gary Parrish, that may be an argument: "Geoff Calkins, a columnist at The Daily Memphian, wrote late Friday that one possible defense could be that Hardaway has helped dozens, if not hundreds, of families over the years -- both families of athletes and non-athletes."

https://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/like-it-or-not-a-major-ncaa-rule-appears-to-have-been-broken-in-james-wiseman-case-but-memphis-will-fight/

Why not? It worked before with 23 years of cheating and lying by another ncaa paradigm. :mad:

[jwillfan]

https://twitter.com/PiranhaRGJ/status/1193325843566780416

Too long to quote but here are a few good snippets:

"Under the NCAA Constitution, only President Rudd can determine whether James is eligible—not the NCAA, which tries to bully and intimidate its members to do what it says, but President Rudd has told them to pound salt. So James IS eligible unless and until he says he's not"

"Both James, Penny, and the University have actionable claims against the NCAA for breach of contract and tortious interference with contract. James' mother has a claim for invasion of privacy. Any claims will be tried in state court in Memphis. The NCAA would get hammered"

[sagegrouse]

https://twitter.com/PiranhaRGJ/status/1193325843566780416

Too long to quote but here are a few good snippets:

"Under the NCAA Constitution, only President Rudd can determine whether James is eligible—not the NCAA, which tries to bully and intimidate its members to do what it says, but President Rudd has told them to pound salt. So James IS eligible unless and until he says he's not"

"Both James, Penny, and the University have actionable claims against the NCAA for breach of contract and tortious interference with contract. James' mother has a claim for invasion of privacy. Any claims will be tried in state court in Memphis. The NCAA would get hammered"

Oh, my! So much nonsense being spouted. The NCAA also has the power to expel Memphis State, and the state courts of Tennessee don't get a vote.

[lotusland]

Seems unfair for the kid to be ineligible due to an arrangement between his family and a HS coach. On the other hand, Wiseman probably would have been drafted this year if not for the NBA rule and the pros wouldn’t be the least bit bothered by it. The simple solution is the change the NBA rule. It’s strange to me that these seedy arrangements always draw criticism for the NCAA amateur model vs the NBA rule that causes these pro ready kids to go to college.

[ChillinDuke]

You are putting words into the mouths of posters that were never said. No one said Hardaway is an also-ran. The point was that he is not some huge name weighing heavily on the minds of current high school kids like it would be if, say, Lebron James were to retire in two years and decide to go into coaching. In that case I could easily see James immediately getting the top recruiting class in the nation. But a 20-years-since-he’s-been-relevant Hardaway is not in that same universe.

Also, Chris Mullin and Patrick Ewing have not had anything even approaching the top recruiting class in the nation, so why are you listing them as somehow supporting your point? They don’t. And Howard at Michigan is doing alright so far, but not anything like what Hardaway has done in getting the top class in the nation.

And Michigan is in a category well above Memphis. They play in one of the two best basketball conferences in the country and they had huge success immediately prior to Howard taking over. Memphis is below Michigan’s level on both counts. So no, I don’t think your comments support the point you are trying to make and certainly do not indicate that mine or FerryFor50’s comments about this situation are “laughable”.

I didn't reply to you or FerryFor50. However, I stand by my fundamental belief that Penny is a legend in and around Memphis (which Jim Sumner already said) and was a cultural icon in the NBA on a darling Orlando Magic team in the heart of the NBA's heyday as it rose to cultural dominance in the 90s. I fail to see why he shouldn't be weighing on recruits minds - unless you have some sort of actual experience in the matter which I'm misunderstanding or overlooking. These kids eat, breath, and sleep basketball. A couple YouTube videos of him and Shaq, some Google searches, a Little Penny commercial, some philanthropy in the state of Tennessee, an AAU Coach with a track record, relationships throughout the basketball community starting at a young age...why can't Penny be a visible, highly relevant recruiter and coach?

And the point isn't that these other former player/coaches had the #1 recruiting class in the nation. They were highly relevant recruiters on day 1, despite being well past their prime playing days. That was my point. And I believe those are relevant data points compared to Penny.

Michigan, yeah, probably higher profile than Memphis. But again, that's missing the forest for the trees. Just because you found a dead tree or two to latch onto, doesn't mean my forest is dead.

People wanted Penny back before Memphis got Tubby. This could have been building up for many years.

- Chillin

[Wahoo2000]

I didn't reply to you or FerryFor50. However, I stand by my fundamental belief that Penny is a legend in and around Memphis (which Jim Sumner already said) and was a cultural icon in the NBA on a darling Orlando Magic team in the heart of the NBA's heyday as it rose to cultural dominance in the 90s. I fail to see why he shouldn't be weighing on recruits minds - unless you have some sort of actual experience in the matter which I'm misunderstanding or overlooking. These kids eat, breath, and sleep basketball. A couple YouTube videos of him and Shaq, some Google searches, a Little Penny commercial, some philanthropy in the state of Tennessee, an AAU Coach with a track record, relationships throughout the basketball community starting at a young age...why can't Penny be a visible, highly relevant recruiter and coach?

And the point isn't that these other former player/coaches had the #1 recruiting class in the nation. They were highly relevant recruiters on day 1, despite being well past their prime playing days. That was my point. And I believe those are relevant data points compared to Penny.

Michigan, yeah, probably higher profile than Memphis. But again, that's missing the forest for the trees. Just because you found a dead tree or two to latch onto, doesn't mean my forest is dead.

People wanted Penny back before Memphis got Tubby. This could have been building up for many years.

- Chillin

The bolded above has been a WAAAAAY undersold component of how Penny was so insanely successful recruiting right out of the gate. Everybody seems to want to place his success as like 90% due to his NBA fame and legendary status around Memphis, and 10% based on the connections he made on the AAU circuit. I'd argue it is much more 50/50, though the counterargument is that his AAU connections were enhanced by his fame/status. Perhaps something of a chicken-egg argument regarding his current recruiting prowess. You also make a good point, btw in regards to the availability of highlights on youtube, etc. Other posters would do well to remember today's youths are much more likely to be aware of great players from 20-30-40 years ago than youths of the 80s/90s were since there was no option for on-demand info and highlights like there is now.

Last - if people don't think Memphis going to bat for Wiseman will make a massive impact with elite recruits going forward as well...... you're nuts. Memphis seems to be formulating a marketing strategy for recruiting regarding targeting kids who have little to no interest in college but are forced to go there. As an aside, I wonder how well that will work when the NBA goes back to letting kids make the jump straight from HS.

[PackMan97]

Last - if people don't think Memphis going to bat for Wiseman will make a massive impact with elite recruits going forward as well... you're nuts. Memphis seems to be formulating a marketing strategy for recruiting regarding targeting kids who have little to no interest in college but are forced to go there. As an aside, I wonder how well that will work when the NBA goes back to letting kids make the jump straight from HS.

So, they'll market to kids who have no interest in college but are forced to go there for 2-3 years instead of 1. Not to mention, kids who go straight to the NBA will know a lot of kids who still need a few years to get to the NBA.

[53n206]

...
Last - if people don't think Memphis going to bat for Wiseman will make a massive impact with elite recruits going forward as well... you're nuts. Memphis seems to be formulating a marketing strategy for recruiting regarding targeting kids who have little to no interest in college but are forced to go there. As an aside, I wonder how well that will work when the NBA goes back to letting kids make the jump straight from HS.

Must agree re all points above. About kids with no desire to attend college but must to play, hasn't there been a successful example of that in the recent ACC?

[Steven43]

But again, that's missing the forest for the trees. Just because you found a dead tree or two to latch onto, doesn't mean my forest is dead.

Kudos to you, sir, for that was quite creative! Keep up the good work 👍🏻

[MrPoon]

Perhaps this has been covered but Memphis can play him all they want and it may be a nice recruiting trick. The courts may even say he can play for a time.
But rumor has it the NCAA has a big party around March and the NCAA gets to choose who is invited. If a team forfeits all its games because it played an ineligible player, it probably isn’t going to be invited to this famous NCAA party. I’d even wonder if the conference would seed a team for their tournament if the team has zero official wins.

[Steven43]

Must agree re all points above. About kids with no desire to attend college but must to play, hasn't there been a successful example of that in the recent ACC?
We are waiting with bated breath. Who is this mystery example? Nassir Little, maybe?

[Billy Dat]

According to Gary Parrish, that may be an argument: "Geoff Calkins, a columnist at The Daily Memphian, wrote late Friday that one possible defense could be that Hardaway has helped dozens, if not hundreds, of families over the years -- both families of athletes and non-athletes."

https://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/like-it-or-not-a-major-ncaa-rule-appears-to-have-been-broken-in-james-wiseman-case-but-memphis-will-fight/

Gary Parrish lives in the northern Mississippi suburbs of Memphis and has a daily sports radio show in the city (in addition to all his work for CBS) so he is a really wired-in authority on this topic. He discussed it on his "CBS Eye on College Basketball Podcast" and it is worth listening to if you want a local perspective on the situation:

https://www.cbssports.com/podcasts/eye-on-college-basketball/ (the 11/10 episode)

Aside from discussing the known facts of the case and the legal issues at hand, Parrish provides interesting insight into the motivation of the school and the mood of the city. The John Calipari era was so successful and generated such excitement in the city that they have been chasing that feeling ever since. As a result, perhaps they didn't ask all of the questions they needed to ask when they hired Penny...because in some strange way, they wanted to feel that excitement again no matter the cost. And, the way they are behaving now, with their adamant fight in the face of pretty overwhelming evidence of rule breaking, backs that up. This year with Wiseman and company is a huge party and they are going to let the party roll on as long as they can. If they have to deal with a notice of allegations and if they have to vacate wins and/or possible conference titles and whatever else they may be able to earn on the court, so be it. For now, the music is on and they are gonna dance. It is a remarkable showdown.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Gary Parrish lives in the northern Mississippi suburbs of Memphis and has a daily sports radio show in the city (in addition to all his work for CBS) so he is a really wired-in authority on this topic. He discussed it on his "CBS Eye on College Basketball Podcast" and it is worth listening to if you want a local perspective on the situation:

https://www.cbssports.com/podcasts/eye-on-college-basketball/ (the 11/10 episode)

Aside from discussing the known facts of the case and the legal issues at hand, Parrish provides interesting insight into the motivation of the school and the mood of the city. The John Calipari era was so successful and generated such excitement in the city that they have been chasing that feeling ever since. As a result, perhaps they didn't ask all of the questions they needed to ask when they hired Penny...because in some strange way, they wanted to feel that excitement again no matter the cost. And, the way they are behaving now, with their adamant fight in the face of pretty overwhelming evidence of rule breaking, backs that up. This year with Wiseman and company is a huge party and they are going to let the party roll on as long as they can. If they have to deal with a notice of allegations and if they have to vacate wins and/or possible conference titles and whatever else they may be able to earn on the court, so be it. For now, the music is on and they are gonna dance. It is a remarkable showdown.

Thanks for all that information and perspective. Much more valuable than all our guesses, assumptions, and anecdotal evidence. Sporkz!

[BD80]

Gary Parrish lives in the northern Mississippi suburbs of Memphis and has a daily sports radio show in the city (in addition to all his work for CBS) so he is a really wired-in authority on this topic. He discussed it on his "CBS Eye on College Basketball Podcast" and it is worth listening to if you want a local perspective on the situation:

https://www.cbssports.com/podcasts/eye-on-college-basketball/ (the 11/10 episode)

... This year with Wiseman and company is a huge party and they are going to let the party roll on as long as they can. If they have to deal with a notice of allegations and if they have to vacate wins and/or possible conference titles and whatever else they may be able to earn on the court, so be it. For now, the music is on and they are gonna dance. It is a remarkable showdown.

There may be a lesson here … (I almost said "value" lesson).

We as fans, particularly us as Duke fans, should take every opportunity we can to celebrate our team and each season.

Even if the Tigers don't go the "The Dance," the Tiger faithful are going to dance.

[Truth&Justise]

What a win-win opportunity for Memphis's opponents. If you win--like Oregon did last night, rather impressively--you can boast about beating the Tigers with all of their future NBA talent. And if you lose, the game is going to be vacated anyway, so no worries!

[kAzE]

What a win-win opportunity for Memphis's opponents. If you win--like Oregon did last night, rather impressively--you can boast about beating the Tigers with all of their future NBA talent. And if you lose, the game is going to be vacated anyway, so no worries!

Does it work that way? I know Memphis' wins will be vacated, but do the losses of their opponents also get erased from the record books? I'm going to go back and look at that 2013 Louisville team's opponent's records to verify this . . .

Edit: I don't believe this is true. We lost to Louisville in the Elite 8 of the NCAA tournament for our 6th loss of the season in 2012-13, and our record still stands at 30-6 for the season in the books.

[PackMan97]

Does it work that way? I know Memphis' wins will be vacated, but do the losses of their opponents also get erased from the record books? I'm going to go back and look at that 2013 Louisville team's opponent's records to verify this . . .

Edit: I don't believe this is true. We lost to Louisville in the Elite 8 of the NCAA tournament for our 6th loss of the season in 2012-13, and our record still stands at 30-6 for the season in the books.

Even if a school cheats, that doesn't mean they will ever get punished.

Besides, vacated wins mean NOTHING. The games were still won by the cheaters. The agony of defeat felt by the losers. Even the school record books rarely reflect the vacated nature of those games except with an asterisk.

[NSDukeFan]

Even if a school cheats, that doesn't mean they will ever get punished.

Besides, vacated wins mean NOTHING. The games were still won by the cheaters. The agony of defeat felt by the losers. Even the school record books rarely reflect the vacated nature of those games except with an asterisk.

For some reason, I get the feeling you might not be talking about Memphis here.

[PackMan97]

For some reason, I get the feeling you might not be talking about Memphis here.

I speak as a fan with a rich tradition of NCAA probation. They can make us vacate the wins, but they can't make us forget the thrill of victory!

[kAzE]

Wiseman and Memphis finally cave. He will be held out of games until he is reinstated.

https://twitter.com/jeffborzello/status/1195015593767964672

[BD80]

Wiseman and Memphis finally cave. He will be held out of games until he is reinstated.

https://twitter.com/jeffborzello/status/1195015593767964672

Awww. I was enjoying the "party like there's no tomorrow - because there's not" attitude.


He dropped his lawsuit as well. Tells me there will be a quick "equitable" resolution. I wonder how much the loss to Oregon played into things - or the TV ratings for the game.

https://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/memphis-james-wiseman-withdraws-lawsuit-against-the-ncaa-will-sit-in-hopes-of-having-eligibility-restored/


Looks like Nike will have to pay Penny back for the moving expenses. I mean Adidas. I mean his family.

[DarkstarWahoo]

Is this not actually kind of great for Wiseman? He's already projected as the #1 pick, so there was nowhere to go but down if he got hurt or played poorly. Now he doesn't have to risk those outcomes, but he also doesn't have to put up with grief about his motivation or energy level.

[UrinalCake]

My guess (which is based on nothing more than speculation after reading a bunch of articles on the subject) is that Memphis and the NCAA have worked out a deal internally. Declaring him ineligible is the next required step, so that Memphis can apply for reinstatement and the NCAA can issue its punishment (which I think has already been determined). Otherwise there would be no reason for Memphis to suddenly reverse course.

I’d put the over/under on games Wiseman sits at 9.5.

[budwom]

Is this not actually kind of great for Wiseman? He's already projected as the #1 pick, so there was nowhere to go but down if he got hurt or played poorly. Now he doesn't have to risk those outcomes, but he also doesn't have to put up with grief about his motivation or energy level.

Definitely true...just have fun (but not too much) until the draft.

[CDu]

Is this not actually kind of great for Wiseman? He's already projected as the #1 pick, so there was nowhere to go but down if he got hurt or played poorly. Now he doesn't have to risk those outcomes, but he also doesn't have to put up with grief about his motivation or energy level.

I mean, only if you think Zion should have sat out the rest of last season like Scotty Pippen said.

It means he doesn't get to play competitive basketball for the time being. It potentially means he won't get the experience of the NCAA tournament. Yes, it would work out nicely in protecting his NBA interests. And maybe that is all that matters to him. But I doubt it.

[Edouble]

I’d put the over/under on games Wiseman sits at 9.5.


It potentially means he won't get the experience of the NCAA tournament. Yes, it would work out nicely in protecting his NBA interests. And maybe that is all that matters to him. But I doubt it.

I say he sits five games. The NCAA knows that (top form) James Wiseman is good for March.

[JasonEvans]

My guess (which is based on nothing more than speculation after reading a bunch of articles on the subject) is that Memphis and the NCAA have worked out a deal internally. Declaring him ineligible is the next required step, so that Memphis can apply for reinstatement and the NCAA can issue its punishment (which I think has already been determined). Otherwise there would be no reason for Memphis to suddenly reverse course.

I’d put the over/under on games Wiseman sits at 9.5.

9.5 sounds about right because it is 11 games until Memphis plays Georgia in what could be a matchup of the #1 and #2 picks in the NBA draft between Wiseman and Anthony Edwards. CBS is scheduled to broadcast that game nationally and I think everyone wants to see that matchup (though they won't guard each other).

I agree that the NCAA likely assured Memphis and Wiseman that he would not miss the entire season if he gave in now. Memphis does have a few potentially tough games coming up with Ole Miss on 11/23, NC State on 11/28, and Tennessee on 12/14 so they may take some losses without him.

-Jason "with Wiseman out, Boogie becomes Memphis' leading scorer" Evans

[Kfanarmy]

Eh, you imply that you do know the real reasons.





Memphis is not a mediocre program.

The fact that their three previous coaches include two coaches who have also coached the Kentucky Wildcats to national championships proves that they are not mediocre. This is just wrong.

Meh...above average....Take away the Calipari years -- just as he took away his recruits when he left -- and it isn't too far above average. A stepping stone to better pastures.

[Kfanarmy]

This isn't uniques to either Penny or Memphis. I'm pretty certain it does and has occurred at every big time college hoops program.
How many top Duke, UK, UNC or any other top schools have found close family members suddenly moving to to the areas where their sons are now playing. Off the top of my head, I can think of at least half a dozen Duke players where this has happened. I can't say for certain that they have received financial compensation for doing so. That's just the way the game is played. Wealthy alumni secure jobs for the family members and the families move.

I remember a guy who moved from an impoverished neighborhood to a very nice house in So Cal coincidental to a football scholly...I think his name was Reggie Bush, but of course Pete Carroll ran to the NFL and played Sergeant Carter when the questions came. yeah it happens. It is cheating. They got caught...others don't. Guess they didn't win the NCAA rules lottery. Doing that crap going into your first coaching job is ballsy and stupid.

[DarkstarWahoo]

I mean, only if you think Zion should have sat out the rest of last season like Scotty Pippen said.

It means he doesn't get to play competitive basketball for the time being. It potentially means he won't get the experience of the NCAA tournament. Yes, it would work out nicely in protecting his NBA interests. And maybe that is all that matters to him. But I doubt it.

I thought Zion should have sat out every game that took place in calendar 2019! I'm all about protecting these kids!

[CameronBornAndBred]

Wiseman's lawyers from Ballin, Ballin & Fishman and Farese, Farese & Farese released a statement Thursday morning, shortly before Memphis declared him ineligible.

That has to be the best law firm name ever to represent a player. (Although the stutter at the end a bit.)

[cato]

That has to be the best law firm name ever to represent a player. (Although the stutter at the end a bit.)

I sure hope that the tagline for Ballin, Ballin & Fishman is:

“Don’t worry, we let Fishman do the work.”

[Indoor66]

I say he sits five games. The NCAA knows that (top form) James Wiseman is good for March.

Very few will notice whether he plays or not.

[UrinalCake]

I say he sits five games. The NCAA knows that (top form) James Wiseman is good for March.

The NCAA also knows that they need to appear tough and didn’t just let a school bully them around, which is what the perception would be if they let Memphis off easy. Obviously this is not a concern when it comes to academic matters, but when it’s an issue of players receiving money they will drop the hammer of Thor.

[UrinalCake]

My guess (which is based on nothing more than speculation after reading a bunch of articles on the subject) is that Memphis and the NCAA have worked out a deal internally... I’d put the over/under on games Wiseman sits at 9.5.

Quoting myself to say that a quick ruling has been handed down, indicating a deal could in fact have already been in place. If you took the over then congrats, as Wiseman will have to sit 12 games. HOWEVER Memphis has stated that they will appeal. And it’s entirely possible (in my conspiracy-theory mind) that the NCAA and Memphis have already agreed on a 9 game suspension and arranged the terms that the NCAA would rule 12 and then appeal it down to 9.

[jv001]

Quoting myself to say that a quick ruling has been handed down, indicating a deal could in fact have already been in place. If you took the over then congrats, as Wiseman will have to sit 12 games. HOWEVER Memphis has stated that they will appeal. And it’s entirely possible (in my conspiracy-theory mind) that the NCAA and Memphis have already agreed on a 9 game suspension and arranged the terms that the NCAA would rule 12 and then appeal it down to 9.

The NCAA is just as corrupt as Uncheat, well almost and don't get me started on ACC Commish Swofford.
GoDuke and 9F.

[duke96]

Very few will notice whether he plays or not.

Maybe they could try this strategy! (Sorry I just love this story)

https://www.foxnews.com/sports/missouri-high-school-forfeit-wins-identity-change

[UrinalCake]

Maybe they could try this strategy! (Sorry I just love this story)

Just announced: Memphis has promoted former walk-on James Smartman up from their practice squad.

[mkirsh]

Maybe they could try this strategy! (Sorry I just love this story)

https://www.foxnews.com/sports/missouri-high-school-forfeit-wins-identity-change

Isn't that Chris Carrawell's high school?

[proelitedota]

Jay what is u doing baby?