Unofficial 2019-2020 Announcer Thread

[MChambers]

Please post your thoughts about broadcast announcers (Bilas, Shulman, Elmore, Dykes, Gman, Vitale, Musberger, etc.) here and not in the postgame threads!

[arnie]

Could we have a separate thread for only Bilas?😀

[throatybeard]

I like unofficial announcers.

[SouthernDukie]

I think there’s a slight chance Billy Packer didn’t love Duke, and once in a blue moon it showed.

[TruBlu]

How many minutes will each announcer get in Duke games this year?

Personally, I hope Elmore gets benched. Vitale bought me beer one night after a Duke game because I had on a Duke shirt, so I have to reluctantly give him somewhat of a pass.

[HereBeforeCoachK]

How many minutes will each announcer get in Duke games this year?

Personally, I hope Elmore gets benched. Vitale bought me beer one night after a Duke game because I had on a Duke shirt, so I have to reluctantly give him somewhat of a pass.

Vitale gets a pass when you're at the game BECAUSE YOU DONT HAVE TO LISTEN TO HIM in that situation. :D

otherwise, no pass.....same schtick every game and has almost nothing to do with the game he's ostensibly broadcasting.

[TruBlu]

Vitale gets a pass when you're at the game BECAUSE YOU DONT HAVE TO LISTEN TO HIM in that situation. :D

otherwise, no pass...same schtick every game and has almost nothing to do with the game he's ostensibly broadcasting.

But, but, he bought me beer.

[HereBeforeCoachK]

But, but, he bought me beer.

That IS cool, I'll admit....but the pass you give him is for being a good guy, not a good announcer....:cool:

[53n206]

Why did you bring up Elmore? It's early in the year,and I had forgotten about him

[Ggallagher]

It hit me last night that I hadn't seen Jay Williams at all this year. Have I just missed him, or did he move onto something else?

[brevity]

It hit me last night that I hadn't seen Jay Williams at all this year. Have I just missed him, or did he move onto something else?

He's off the college basketball beat and on to the NBA.

Hollywood Reporter: Jay Williams Inks Multiyear Extension with ESPN/ABC (https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/jay-williams-inks-multi-year-extension-espn-abc-1246374)


The sportscaster has inked a multiyear extension with ESPN/ABC and will continue to serve as a contributing analyst on NBA Countdown, The Jump and also the morning show Get Up. He also will continue to host ESPN+'s Kevin Durant-produced series The Boardroom while developing his own original television projects.

[Ggallagher]

It hit me last night that I hadn't seen Jay Williams at all this year. Have I just missed him, or did he move onto something else?

OK, maybe my timing has just been off. I Googled Jay to see what was going in, and ESPN says he still works for them. I thought I was watching enough basketball - maybe not.

[Ggallagher]

He's off the college basketball beat and on to the NBA.

Hollywood Reporter: Jay Williams Inks Multiyear Extension with ESPN/ABC (https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/jay-williams-inks-multi-year-extension-espn-abc-1246374)

OK, thanks. I've watched a few pro games but just hadn't come across him yet.

[weezie]

The in-studio chat with Uncle FesterSeth is shriek-worthy run out of the room material. Such a buffoon. So bad even Vitale was calling him out last night, albeit couched in the usual "But I love Seth" drivel.

[uh_no]

That IS cool, I'll admit...but the pass you give him is for being a good guy, not a good announcer...:cool:

i'll take vitali's enthusiasm, annoying as it may be, over Bilas' holier-than-thou lecturing any day.

He focuses on what he loves about the game instead of what's wrong with it, and to some degree, that enthusiasm is contagious.

[elvis14]

i'll take vitali's enthusiasm, annoying as it may be, over Bilas' holier-than-thou lecturing any day.

He focuses on what he loves about the game instead of what's wrong with it, and to some degree, that enthusiasm is contagious.

This 100%

Jay's anti-NCAA rants both on TV and online are getting old (especially considering how he makes a living)
Jay's anti-Duke statements during games are annoying, at best

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

i'll take vitali's enthusiasm, annoying as it may be, over Bilas' holier-than-thou lecturing any day.

He focuses on what he loves about the game instead of what's wrong with it, and to some degree, that enthusiasm is contagious.

I can't stomach Vitale's irrelevant banter. I don't quite understand the Bilas hate. And I agree with his NCAA rants.

Again, I am in the minority I guess.

Give me Bilas over Vitale all day long.

[summerwind03]

This 100%

Jay's anti-NCAA rants both on TV and online are getting old (especially considering how he makes a living)
Jay's anti-Duke statements during games are annoying, at best


I'm on this team. I often have to mute Jay entirely. I just turn down the volume on Dickie V!

[golfinesquire]

I really do not get the anti-Bilas sentiment on this board. I thought he did a nice job last night discussing what both teams did well and what they did badly. I also thought it was completely appropriate to call out the refs the way he did. All announcers do it and it is probably one of the easier ways to fill air time, which they all are supposed to do. I appreciate that Bilas is a complete professional and not just a homer and I have never felt that he went way overboard the other way as some have said. I know people were upset with him when he talked about why the NCAA was not going to wade into the UNC cheating mess, but he made really good points about why the NCAA would want to stay out of that minefield and his analysis was spot on. I will admit I have a fond spot for Jay. He was a freshman at Duke my second year at law school there and he played his heart out, really maximizing his skills as an undersized big man.

[HereBeforeCoachK]

I really do not get the anti-Bilas sentiment on this board. I thought he did a nice job last night discussing what both teams did well and what they did badly. I also thought it was completely appropriate to call out the refs the way he did. All announcers do it and it is probably one of the easier ways to fill air time, which they all are supposed to do. I appreciate that Bilas is a complete professional and not just a homer and I have never felt that he went way overboard the other way as some have said. I know people were upset with him when he talked about why the NCAA was not going to wade into the UNC cheating mess, but he made really good points about why the NCAA would want to stay out of that minefield and his analysis was spot on. I will admit I have a fond spot for Jay. He was a freshman at Duke my second year at law school there and he played his heart out, really maximizing his skills as an undersized big man.

Well you're gonna have to agree to disagree with pretty much the entire board. Bilas does call out refs, but when an apparent bad call helps Duke, he goes on and on and on and on and on about it....when it goes against Duke, he mentions it once, then onto the next thing. This is blatant and quantifiable. And it's not that he's just not a homer - he is WAAAY off the charts in the other direction. Again, quantifable.

[golfinesquire]

Well you're gonna have to agree to disagree with pretty much the entire board. Bilas does call out refs, but when an apparent bad call helps Duke, he goes on and on and on and on and on about it...when it goes against Duke, he mentions it once, then onto the next thing. This is blatant and quantifiable. And it's not that he's just not a homer - he is WAAAY off the charts in the other direction. Again, quantifable.

Or the people who go on ad nauseam about Bilas's weak points. They salt the dig.

[SouthernDukie]

Well you're gonna have to agree to disagree with pretty much the entire board. Bilas does call out refs, but when an apparent bad call helps Duke, he goes on and on and on and on and on about it...when it goes against Duke, he mentions it once, then onto the next thing. This is blatant and quantifiable. And it's not that he's just not a homer - he is WAAAY off the charts in the other direction. Again, quantifable.

THIS! In triplicate! Jay is good for multiple rants against calls that go Duke's way every single game. It's utterly ridiculous and it does help foster the "Duke gets all the calls" nonsense because most casual viewers just take in what they hear. Jay is apparently blind to this major fault in his commentating. Surely people have brought it up to him. Yet he persists in it year after year. And it is a Duke thing, not a Jay does this with all calls and all teams all the time thing.

[uh_no]

Well you're gonna have to agree to disagree with pretty much the entire board. Bilas does call out refs, but when an apparent bad call helps Duke, he goes on and on and on and on and on about it...when it goes against Duke, he mentions it once, then onto the next thing. This is blatant and quantifiable. And it's not that he's just not a homer - he is WAAAY off the charts in the other direction. Again, quantifable.

the thing that gets me is the degree to which he rips them. you point out a missed call....but going on and on about how the reffing is unacceptable, etc. Well Jay, why don't you get out there and show-em how it's done. It's armchair criticism.

It's even worse when the replay shows he's wrong and he doesn't back off, instead saying the rule should be changed.

Look, I get we all rant at refs, especially during the game....but for a commentator to be so hyperbolic in his criticism of a single missed call in a game, while not admitting when he gets it wrong himself is insufferable.


The missed goaltend was the epitome of this. It was super close in real time, and where the ref was running trying to catch up to the play, I can see how it would have been tough to see if it hit the board or the hand first. I thought it probably was, but the camera had a better angle....and wasn't entirely certain until they showed the replay. Jay could have said he thought they missed the call and moved on....but instead he's spewing vitriol about how unacceptable the refs are to have missed that. And then he's calling the clear make-up call another blown call and using it to pile on about the sub-par quality of the reffing.

[OldPhiKap]

I'm fine with both Bilas and Vitale. In truth, as long as it is not Len Elmore I'm fine.

I frankly don't see how Seth keeps his job in the studio. He was not a good or notable coach; he does not bring a lot of insight; and as best I can tell his only skill is to talk loudly. I don't say that as a snide joke -- I really do not see how he stays employed in that role. Is he really the best ex-coach available?

[golfinesquire]

the thing that gets me is the degree to which he rips them. you point out a missed call...but going on and on about how the reffing is unacceptable, etc. Well Jay, why don't you get out there and show-em how it's done. It's armchair criticism.

It's even worse when the replay shows he's wrong and he doesn't back off, instead saying the rule should be changed.

Look, I get we all rant at refs, especially during the game...but for a commentator to be so hyperbolic in his criticism of a single missed call in a game, while not admitting when he gets it wrong himself is insufferable.


The missed goaltend was the epitome of this. It was super close in real time, and where the ref was running trying to catch up to the play, I can see how it would have been tough to see if it hit the board or the hand first. I thought it probably was, but the camera had a better angle...and wasn't entirely certain until they showed the replay. Jay could have said he thought they missed the call and moved on...but instead he's spewing vitriol about how unacceptable the refs are to have missed that. And then he's calling the clear make-up call another blown call and using it to pile on about the sub-par quality of the reffing.

Well, I saw that as goal tending before Bilas called it and from the comfort of my couch. And quite frankly after that horrible call on the MSU guard who fell down when Tre was going to the goal, the refs deserved a good bit of ripping.

[Dr. Rosenrosen]

I'm fine with both Bilas and Vitale. In truth, as long as it is not Len Elmore I'm fine.

I frankly don't see how Seth keeps his job in the studio. He was not a good or notable coach; he does not bring a lot of insight; and as best I can tell his only skill is to talk loudly. I don't say that as a snide joke -- I really do not see how he stays employed in that role. Is he really the best ex-coach available?
Well, you’re talking about a network that just recently made Stephen A Smith its highest paid “sportscaster” paying him nearly $8M per year! What?!?!

Sooooo... does it REALLy surprise you?

[OldPhiKap]

Well, you’re talking about a network that just recently made Stephen A Smith its highest paid “sportscaster” paying him nearly $8M per year! What?!?!

Sooooo... does it REALLy surprise you?

You raise a valid point. With SAS, at least, he has apparently built up a sizeable following that likes him after a decade of radio shows, print columns, and solo-or-paired shows. I don't care for him at all but respect that (apparently a lot of) others disagree.

What's Seth's constituency?

[HereBeforeCoachK]

I can't stomach Vitale's irrelevant banter. I don't quite understand the Bilas hate. And I agree with his NCAA rants.

Again, I am in the minority I guess.
.

I think the main issue with most people and his NCAA rant is that he is making what, mid six figures, maybe seven figures, all because he played for scholarship for Coach K. IOW Bilas is STILL BEING PAID for his play at Duke, because he's nowhere near ESPN without it. And of course all of this is under the NCAA....I think it's the blatant hypocrisy and lack of self awareness on his part that bugs people. That and the fact that his NCAA rants are simply devoid of facts that are inconvenient to his case. I mean he's either not as smart as advertised or not above fudging the facts to fit his argument.

I will not defend the administration of the NCAA, they've been awful for years. I will defend, to a small degree, the "model" that has paid for a whole lot of field hockey and baseball and tennis and swimming and track and field and womens BB and so on for decades. Is it broken now with some of the stuff going on? Yes, because it's become a victim of its own success. But Jay's arguments are whiny, ironic, and not accurate.

[arnie]

I really do not get the anti-Bilas sentiment on this board. I thought he did a nice job last night discussing what both teams did well and what they did badly. I also thought it was completely appropriate to call out the refs the way he did. All announcers do it and it is probably one of the easier ways to fill air time, which they all are supposed to do. I appreciate that Bilas is a complete professional and not just a homer and I have never felt that he went way overboard the other way as some have said. I know people were upset with him when he talked about why the NCAA was not going to wade into the UNC cheating mess, but he made really good points about why the NCAA would want to stay out of that minefield and his analysis was spot on. I will admit I have a fond spot for Jay. He was a freshman at Duke my second year at law school there and he played his heart out, really maximizing his skills as an undersized big man.

Wow, I guess this Board is great since people can air completely opposite perspectives. I find his style absurdly arrogant, unprofessional and would never want to be in the same room with him. You, OTOH, adore him and find him spot on. In the end, none of this matters to the success of Duke Basketball.

[Bob Green]

Well, you’re talking about a network that just recently made Stephen A Smith its highest paid “sportscaster” paying him nearly $8M per year! What?!?!

Life is too short to waste one precious second listening to Stephen A. Smith.

[golfinesquire]

Wow, I guess this Board is great since people can air completely opposite perspectives. I find his style absurdly arrogant, unprofessional and would never want to be in the same room with him. You, OTOH, adore him and find him spot on. In the end, none of this matters to the success of Duke Basketball.

It would be even better if, in airing different perspectives, people refrained from making obnoxious comments about the people with whom they disagree.

[golfinesquire]

Life is too short to waste one precious second listening to Stephen A. Smith.

Aside from his basic abrasiveness, it really bothers me that a guy who gets paid a lot of money to act as a talking head consistently makes grammatical/vocabulary errors. Is it so hard to say "have gone" rather than "have went?"

[rasputin]

Dickie still bothers me, but not to the extent he once did. Maybe he's gotten a little bit tired, but in my view he has toned down the schtick some. He has been talking about the game more lately than he did, say, 7 years ago.

Elmore: Yeech. He's always wrong, and he always hates Duke.

Bilas: He doesn't bother me as much as he does many of you, except when he is fawning over uNC. Barf.

[MChambers]

I can't listen to Bilas anymore. He just goes on and on about officiating, but only on the calls that bug him. It's too bad. I used to like him, but he grew tiresome years ago.

Vitale is awful, worse than Bilas, but better than Elmore.

[Pghdukie]

I'll listen to Bilas, Vitale, Scholman but some of these ACCN crews should go back to doing local high school games.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

I think the main issue with most people and his NCAA rant is that he is making what, mid six figures, maybe seven figures, all because he played for scholarship for Coach K. IOW Bilas is STILL BEING PAID for his play at Duke, because he's nowhere near ESPN without it. And of course all of this is under the NCAA...I think it's the blatant hypocrisy and lack of self awareness on his part that bugs people. That and the fact that his NCAA rants are simply devoid of facts that are inconvenient to his case. I mean he's either not as smart as advertised or not above fudging the facts to fit his argument.

I will not defend the administration of the NCAA, they've been awful for years. I will defend, to a small degree, the "model" that has paid for a whole lot of field hockey and baseball and tennis and swimming and track and field and womens BB and so on for decades. Is it broken now with some of the stuff going on? Yes, because it's become a victim of its own success. But Jay's arguments are whiny, ironic, and not accurate.

All great points.

Yet, I agree with his NCAA rants.

[SouthernDukie]

I can't listen to Bilas anymore. He just goes on and on about officiating, but only on the calls that bug him.

And the vast majority of the time, just by sheer coincidence [:rolleyes:], the calls he goes on and on about somehow involve Duke being the beneficiary. It's just so one-sided I find it absolutely absurd. If he was consistent and harped on calls that both benefited and went against Duke with equal tenacity I'd find it a bit more tolerable. But the bias from Bilas is just too much when he calls Duke games. I'd much rather hear Dickie V call our games than Jay.

[ChillinDuke]

Chris Spatola is my own personal happy place. And it's not because he's K's son-in-law. His balance of actually calling the game, insight into X's and O's, levity, and intellect is second to none. He's fantastic. Every time.

- Chillin

[Dr. Rosenrosen]

Chris Spatola is my own personal happy place. And it's not because he's K's son-in-law. His balance of actually calling the game, insight into X's and O's, levity, and intellect is second to none. He's fantastic. Every time.

- Chillin
Agreed.

I’ll also note that I really enjoyed listening to Bobby Knight a few years back. He was always offering really insightful commentary about the actual game being played in front of him.

[golfinesquire]

I think the main issue with most people and his NCAA rant is that he is making what, mid six figures, maybe seven figures, all because he played for scholarship for Coach K. IOW Bilas is STILL BEING PAID for his play at Duke, because he's nowhere near ESPN without it. And of course all of this is under the NCAA...I think it's the blatant hypocrisy and lack of self awareness on his part that bugs people. That and the fact that his NCAA rants are simply devoid of facts that are inconvenient to his case. I mean he's either not as smart as advertised or not above fudging the facts to fit his argument.

I will not defend the administration of the NCAA, they've been awful for years. I will defend, to a small degree, the "model" that has paid for a whole lot of field hockey and baseball and tennis and swimming and track and field and womens BB and so on for decades. Is it broken now with some of the stuff going on? Yes, because it's become a victim of its own success. But Jay's arguments are whiny, ironic, and not accurate.

Sure Jay leveraged his college experience to get a job. Isnt that what a lot of people do? But he graduated over 30 years ago and along the way had to stand on his own merit. Also I don’t see why he should not criticize the NCAA. Aside from the fact that the issues are different now than in 1984, he is not employed by the NCAA. His paycheck is signed by a completely different entity and if they want him to give his thoughts on ways to improve the system,or to call out the hypocracy then that is what he should do.

[hudlow]

Bilas' history of going overboard to avoid being perceived as a "homer" would make me very reluctant to hire him as an attorney. :rolleyes:

[Edouble]

Seriously, does Bilas get some sort of bonus every time he vocalizes that "Duke is running their horn set".

[HereBeforeCoachK]

Sure Jay leveraged his college experience to get a job. Isnt that what a lot of people do? But he graduated over 30 years ago and along the way had to stand on his own merit. Also I don’t see why he should not criticize the NCAA. Aside from the fact that the issues are different now than in 1984, he is not employed by the NCAA. His paycheck is signed by a completely different entity and if they want him to give his thoughts on ways to improve the system,or to call out the hypocracy then that is what he should do.

Sue there is nothing wrong with what he did, and you totally missed the point. The point is the lack of self awareness...the lack of his understanding of the irony....that this big bad business of NCAA basketball is making him rich - and all because he was "exploited" as a student. We should all be so lucky to be so exploited.

I leverage my experiences and contacts all the time...in the four businesses I run....but I don't lose sight of what it is I'm leveraging and I don't make a career of criticizing the who/ the what, those leverage points are. I hope you can see the vast difference.

You admitted you had a long held soft spot for him. It's still very soft. It's hardened over the years for some of us, who also remember Bilas as a frosh on that team that became great a few years later.

[Son of Mojo]

I guess it was about 10 years ago. I was a bit more active on commenting on the page but I got to where I didn't do it as much because I got called out. I was called out by a few people for voicing my displeasure for bilas and calling him a unc shill due to his going overboard bestowing praise upon them constantly yet seemingly cutting down Duke (then it was much more subtle but as time has gone by, most of us here have seen it being much more overt). It was to the point the man himself came on here defending his position as a broadcaster and saying who he objectively felt were better squads for his picks. That's fair if that is/was his belief. But, again, 10 years or so later now I think it's safe to say it's so bad many of us can't take it. I had to mute the tv last night. I got on here and was writing during the game like I used to to vent a bit. bilas has no issue going overboard with calls that may favor Duke (during a game typically calls will favor both teams, we should all know that but obviously we've seen exceptions), but may nothing ever benefit Duke or call out things the opposition is obviously getting by with (last night's constant moving screens by MSU that weren't called out when I did listen irked me badly). He has the ability to objectively call a game--we've heard it. But to not acknowledge that he goes overboard with calls that may benefit Duke is disingenuous. I don't know if it's in the Packer or Elmore realm yet, but it's teetering on the edge. It certainly isn't helped watching his shoot around interview with anthony DURING A DUKE GAME. Will we see Tre, Carey, or any other Duke player interviewed in a similar manner during tonight's unc game? Possibly, but I highly doubt it.

[weezie]

I'm fine with both Bilas and Vitale. In truth, as long as it is not Len Elmore I'm fine.

I frankly don't see how Uncle FesterSeth keeps his job in the studio. He was not a good or notable coach; he does not bring a lot of insight; and as best I can tell his only skill is to talk loudly. I don't say that as a snide joke -- I really do not see how he stays employed in that role. Is he really the best ex-coach available?

See, now it reads with more clarity. Thank you Dear OPK.

[OldPhiKap]

See, now it reads with more clarity. Thank you Dear OPK.

9991

[golfinesquire]

Sue there is nothing wrong with what he did, and you totally missed the point. The point is the lack of self awareness...the lack of his understanding of the irony...that this big bad business of NCAA basketball is making him rich - and all because he was "exploited" as a student. We should all be so lucky to be so exploited.

I leverage my experiences and contacts all the time...in the four businesses I run...but I don't lose sight of what it is I'm leveraging and I don't make a career of criticizing the who/ the what, those leverage points are. I hope you can see the vast difference.

You admitted you had a long held soft spot for him. It's still very soft. It's hardened over the years for some of us, who also remember Bilas as a frosh on that team that became great a few years later.
I didn’t miss your point, I disagreed with it. But this debate is probably past its expiration date and we have an ACC game coming up. Go Duke!

[DU82]

Interrupting the Bilas Bashing, just watched the women’s loss to Nebraska on the B1G network. Typically, you get a bunch of homers on these broadcasts (especially on ACCNX), but I found Brenda Van Lengen, the color analyst, to be excellent. She talked mostly about the game, and provided a lot of good insight that’s sadly missing from most other games. While a B1G announcer, I thought she was even handed not bilased, I mean biased.

[CrazyNotCrazie]

I wish Raftery did Duke games. He is knowledgable. I'm sure his shtick rubs some people the wrong way but he announces like a guy you are sitting next to at a bar, having a good time. He doesn't take himself too seriously.

Bilas is suffering from over-exposure. It is the same thing that happened to Vitale. He has become a cliche of himself. I think he is a genuinely good guy, and he knows a ton about basketball. But ESPN picks their favorites and has them on constantly.

Stephen A Smith is an embarrassment. There are plenty of people in America who enjoy him. I find him to be abrasive, obnoxious, and he has opinions for the sake of having opinions. Way back when he was actually a talented writer, but he has sold out, and is getting paid very well for doing so. He is symptomatic of the dumbing down and hot-taking of America.

[du_bb1]

I know it is not a popular stance on this site, but I like Bilas, think he does a good job, very knowledgeable and breaks plays down to the basics.
May go a bit overboard to not be a duke shill, but that is ok. Skewer me as you will.

Dakich, Elmore and Vitale need to go far away.

[arnie]

I wish Raftery did Duke games. He is knowledgable. I'm sure his shtick rubs some people the wrong way but he announces like a guy you are sitting next to at a bar, having a good time. He doesn't take himself too seriously.

Bilas is suffering from over-exposure. It is the same thing that happened to Vitale. He has become a cliche of himself. I think he is a genuinely good guy, and he knows a ton about basketball. But ESPN picks their favorites and has them on constantly.

Stephen A Smith is an embarrassment. There are plenty of people in America who enjoy him. I find him to be abrasive, obnoxious, and he has opinions for the sake of having opinions. Way back when he was actually a talented writer, but he has sold out, and is getting paid very well for doing so. He is symptomatic of the dumbing down and hot-taking of America.

Agree on Raftery, I like his shtick and he’s both humorous and somewhat humble. I know he’s a bit boring, but I’ve always enjoyed games announced by Dan Bonner. Again, he’s not of the Packer/Bilas/Elmore mold.

[OldPhiKap]

I know it is not a popular stance on this site, but I like Bilas, think he does a good job, very knowledgeable and breaks plays down to the basics.
May go a bit overboard to not be a duke shill, but that is ok. Skewer me as you will.


I agree with this FWIW.

[uh_no]

I can't listen to Bilas anymore. He just goes on and on about officiating, but only on the calls that bug him. It's too bad. I used to like him, but he grew tiresome years ago.

Vitale is awful, worse than Bilas, but better than Elmore.

contrast his call when they missed the duke goaltend yesterday vs when they missed the UNC one tonight.....night and day.

[duke4ever19]

I guess it was about 10 years ago. I was a bit more active on commenting on the page but I got to where I didn't do it as much because I got called out. I was called out by a few people for voicing my displeasure for bilas and calling him a unc shill due to his going overboard bestowing praise upon them constantly yet seemingly cutting down Duke (then it was much more subtle but as time has gone by, most of us here have seen it being much more overt). It was to the point the man himself came on here defending his position as a broadcaster and saying who he objectively felt were better squads for his picks. That's fair if that is/was his belief. But, again, 10 years or so later now I think it's safe to say it's so bad many of us can't take it. I had to mute the tv last night. I got on here and was writing during the game like I used to to vent a bit. bilas has no issue going overboard with calls that may favor Duke (during a game typically calls will favor both teams, we should all know that but obviously we've seen exceptions), but may nothing ever benefit Duke or call out things the opposition is obviously getting by with (last night's constant moving screens by MSU that weren't called out when I did listen irked me badly). He has the ability to objectively call a game--we've heard it. But to not acknowledge that he goes overboard with calls that may benefit Duke is disingenuous. I don't know if it's in the Packer or Elmore realm yet, but it's teetering on the edge. It certainly isn't helped watching his shoot around interview with anthony DURING A DUKE GAME. Will we see Tre, Carey, or any other Duke player interviewed in a similar manner during tonight's unc game? Possibly, but I highly doubt it.

Wait . . . Bilas made a DBR account to defend the way he calls games? How did I miss this??

[Son of Mojo]

Wait . . . Bilas made a DBR account to defend the way he calls games? How did I miss this??

Apparently he was known to come on the site periodically. The mods used to acknowledge that it was him.

[KandG]

I know it is not a popular stance on this site, but I like Bilas, think he does a good job, very knowledgeable and breaks plays down to the basics.
May go a bit overboard to not be a duke shill, but that is ok. Skewer me as you will.

Dakich, Elmore and Vitale need to go far away.

Agree with this.

One thing I've learned from studying announcing teams in all sports (but especially announcing crews for all the NBA teams) is that fans, no matter how fair they feel themselves to be, have a hard time hearing too much criticism or even attempted impartial observations about their team. And fans of teams with a long track record of achievement (Duke, KY, Lakers, Celtics etc) have an especially paranoid mindset because of the attention and animosity their programs/franchises receive. And it's totally understandable... if slightly unhinged on occasion.

I thought Bilas was fine the other night calling the MSU game, actually thought he was quite good. He does overdo certain talking points and someone rightly pointed out that he's overexposed like some of ESPN's other broadcasters, so he's going to wear on people just by being himself. But I've never doubted for a second that he loves Duke but mostly strives to call the games fairly. Yes, he plays along with his employer's desire to gin up controversy when it presents itself, but that's not unique to him or even ESPN.

[Saratoga2]

I know it is not a popular stance on this site, but I like Bilas, think he does a good job, very knowledgeable and breaks plays down to the basics.
May go a bit overboard to not be a duke shill, but that is ok. Skewer me as you will.

Dakich, Elmore and Vitale need to go far away.

I believe Bilas is Biased against Duke for a calculated reason. He knows that a preponderance of fans tend to be anti-Duke so to appeal to them and keep the money rolling in, he goes out of his way to be a Duke critic. No doubt he knows the game and is no dummy, but he knows his audience.

[HereBeforeCoachK]

I believe Bilas is Biased against Duke for a calculated reason. He knows that a preponderance of fans tend to be anti-Duke so to appeal to them and keep the money rolling in, he goes out of his way to be a Duke critic. No doubt he knows the game and is no dummy, but he knows his audience.

That may be true, but dadgummit do NOT EXPECT ME TO RESPECT THAT. If you have to lie to do your job, what's the point? And FTR, Scott Van Pelt is totally the other way, and he's ten X bigger than Bilas will ever be. And I realize that Maryland doesn't carry quite the same national disdain as Duke does...Duke carries more than any team ever IMO...but Van Pelt proves there is a way to do it, to be a homer, and still have respect.

What Bilas is doing is FEEDING THE ANTI DUKE narrative and making it worse..."see see...Bilas is a Duke, and even HE knows Duke gets all the calls..." To me, this kind of slippery calculation in media is nauseating. Common, but nauseating.

People here slam Stephen A, and I can understand that, but Stephen A never slinks to such a low level. I'm glad you pointed out the calculus Bilas probably uses...and as I thought about it and typed...it p*ssed me off even more.

I've been very involved with some major political media shows and personalities....and I can tell you there are phonies who have a schtick, and there are those who are just themselves. You can make money at both. And the ones who have a schtick simply cannot believe that anyone does it by being themselves. But some do. And it's only those I respect.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

That may be true, but dadgummit do NOT EXPECT ME TO RESPECT THAT. If you have to lie to do your job, what's the point? And FTR, Scott Van Pelt is totally the other way, and he's ten X bigger than Bilas will ever be. And I realize that Maryland doesn't carry quite the same national disdain as Duke does...Duke carries more than any team ever IMO...but Van Pelt proves there is a way to do it, to be a homer, and still have respect.

What Bilas is doing is FEEDING THE ANTI DUKE narrative and making it worse..."see see...Bilas is a Duke, and even HE knows Duke gets all the calls..." To me, this kind of slippery calculation in media is nauseating. Common, but nauseating.

People here slam Stephen A, and I can understand that, but Stephen A never slinks to such a low level. I'm glad you pointed out the calculus Bilas probably uses...and as I thought about it and typed...it p*ssed me off even more.

I've been very involved with some major political media shows and personalities...and I can tell you there are phonies who have a schtick, and there are those who are just themselves. You can make money at both. And the ones who have a schtick simply cannot believe that anyone does it by being themselves. But some do. And it's only those I respect.

I'm sorry if you disagree with someone's perspective, but I (not a moderator) would suggest that you reconsider not "respecting" someone else's views on this board, regardless of what they are. We're all Duke fans, and this is a self-selecting group here on this board. We hold ourselves to a higher standard than political radio and television shows. We even attempt to be welcoming of rival fans (within reason - RIP Wheat).

[Stray Gator]

I'm sorry if you disagree with someone's perspective, but I (not a moderator) would suggest that you reconsider not "respecting" someone else's views on this board, regardless of what they are. We're all Duke fans, and this is a self-selecting group here on this board. We hold ourselves to a higher standard than political radio and television shows. We even attempt to be welcoming of rival fans (within reason - RIP Wheat).

It seems apparent to me that the portion of HBCK's message stating "do not expect me to respect that" was directed at Jay Bilas, not at the poster -- a point made clear by the immediately succeeding sentences, stating that "if you have to lie to do your job" and drawing a comparison to another ESPN announcer, Scott Van Pelt.

[AtlDuke72]

I agree with this FWIW.

Me too.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

It seems apparent to me that the portion of HBCK's message stating "do not expect me to respect that" was directed at Jay Bilas, not at the poster -- a point made clear by the immediately succeeding sentences, stating that "if you have to lie to do your job" and drawing a comparison to another ESPN announcer, Scott Van Pelt.

If that's the case, please delete my comment.

[AGDukesky]

It seems apparent to me that the portion of HBCK's message stating "do not expect me to respect that" was directed at Jay Bilas, not at the poster -- a point made clear by the immediately succeeding sentences, stating that "if you have to lie to do your job" and drawing a comparison to another ESPN announcer, Scott Van Pelt.

That was how I took it as well. HBCK can be a bit aggressive about debating his/her (no offense meant just didn’t want to assume) points, but this was not one of those posts - and I tend to agree with this one.

I defended Bilas early on but gave up when his agenda became clear. I still like him as a person and recognize his abilities outside Duke/UNC announcing. He is one of the major reasons I never watch ESPN except for a game I can only watch there- and I rarely watch the whole thing...

[HereBeforeCoachK]

That was how I took it as well. HBCK can be a bit aggressive about debating his/her (no offense meant just didn’t want to assume) points, but this was not one of those posts - and I tend to agree with this one.

I defended Bilas early on but gave up when his agenda became clear. I still like him as a person and recognize his abilities outside Duke/UNC announcing. He is one of the major reasons I never watch ESPN except for a game I can only watch there- and I rarely watch the whole thing...

Fair point, and yes, HBCK can be aggressive - because one of his occupations is in political media and communications, where the baseline is so nasty, that what I do here doesn't seem to me to be aggressive (most of the time). Sorry if it comes off that way.

And yes, my comments were directed at Jay Bilas and NOT the poster. I think the poster was right that this was a calculated move on Jay's part, and as I thought about that, rather than Jay just subconsciously drifting that way, I got even angrier and lost even more respect for Jay. I simply have no respect for calculated schticks. I have no disrespect for the poster whatsoever.

[budwom]

I believe Bilas is Biased against Duke for a calculated reason. He knows that a preponderance of fans tend to be anti-Duke so to appeal to them and keep the money rolling in, he goes out of his way to be a Duke critic. No doubt he knows the game and is no dummy, but he knows his audience.

This may well be the case. I spend very little time thinking about Bilas, as I watch all the games without sound. However, yesterday I re-enjoyed the game one more time by watching with the sound on, and noted four consecutive cases where Bilas opined that Duke was the beneficiary of a bad call or no call....the kid falling in front of Jones, a Spartan who took multiple bumps from a Duke defender without a call...I finally had to revert to mute mode. Meanwhile he had no issue with pro MSU calls.

[HereBeforeCoachK]

I'm sorry if you disagree with someone's perspective, but I (not a moderator) would suggest that you reconsider not "respecting" someone else's views on this board, regardless of what they are. We're all Duke fans, and this is a self-selecting group here on this board. We hold ourselves to a higher standard than political radio and television shows. We even attempt to be welcoming of rival fans (within reason - RIP Wheat).

Read mine and other comments below, and you will see you had a total mis-interpretation of my comments. Context....context....

[jv001]

I can put up with Bilas. He's not my favorite announcer but I can stand him. As others have posted, he does go overboard in his anti-Duke spew and I don't like his on and on about the corrupt NCAA. However, I do agree with him, the NCAA is corrupt. I also remember Jay coming on DBR and defending himself years ago. At that time he was not anti-Duke like he is now. I met Jay at Bob Harris' Golf Tournament years ago and he just wasn't a very friendly person. (On the other hand, Johnny D was) Later on, I was told by a person close to Duke athletics that "Jay was an ok guy, but he's full of himself". I've never forgotten those words. So, when Jay does a Duke game, sometimes I listen to him and sometimes I hit the mute button. It all depends on how bad he is that particular game. And of course, if I feel he's full of himself that game. Oh, but I always mute Dickie V and Len Elmore. As I would Billy Packer if he was still announcing games.

GoDuke!

[budwom]

It is surely odd behavior...I truly don't think he is anti-Duke per se, but what I assume to be his overcompensation is really over the top as I found out the other night. The mute button still rulz.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Read mine and other comments below, and you will see you had a total mis-interpretation of my comments. Context...context...

Yes. And if you read my follow up comments, you would see I requested my reply be deleted if this was the case.

Let's please move forward, unless you feel the need to chastise me further.

[Reddevil]

I believe Bilas is Biased against Duke for a calculated reason. He knows that a preponderance of fans tend to be anti-Duke so to appeal to them and keep the money rolling in, he goes out of his way to be a Duke critic. No doubt he knows the game and is no dummy, but he knows his audience.

Bilas would be nearly perfect if he stuck with pure game analysis without a care about "his audience".

Vitale would be terrific if all of his enthusiasm were focused on the game at hand.

Walton does not care at all about "his audience" which is refreshing, but he has kaleidoscope eyes (or tie dye on the brain or something).

We're lucky to be Duke fans, so I guess we can't have it all.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Bilas would be nearly perfect if he stuck with pure game analysis without a care about "his audience".

Vitale would be terrific if all of his enthusiasm were focused on the game at hand.

Walton does not care at all about "his audience" which is refreshing, but he has kaleidoscope eyes (or tie dye on the brain or something).

We're lucky to be Duke fans, so I guess we can't have it all.

Vitale and Walton can go for minutes at a time without mentioning anything peripherally relevant to the game. For whatever reason, I find Walton infinitely more palatable.

[Reddevil]

Vitale and Walton can go for minutes at a time without mentioning anything peripherally relevant to the game. For whatever reason, I find Walton infinitely more palatable.

Yeah, one minute you're watching a basketball game and the next you're learning about blue whales or Koalas or something. Walton is a trip!

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Yeah, one minute you're watching a basketball game and the next you're learning about blue whales or Koalas or something. Walton is a trip!

Vitale just wants to tell you how special these kids are.

[Reddevil]

Vitale just wants to tell you how special these kids are.

And his Mt. Rushmore of coaches which has about 20 faces on it by now......and his bald dome index.......and even he can make that shot even though he only has one eye..........and "Are you kidding me?!! Are you serious?!!..........."I had dinner with Lou Carnesecca last night and........."............

[sagegrouse]

Yes. And if you read my follow up comments, you would see I requested my reply be deleted if this was the case.

Let's please move forward, unless you feel the need to chastise me further.

Forty lashes with a wet noodle, I say!

[Reddevil]

Forty lashes with a wet noodle, I say!

If I knew how to do it I would insert the scene with the Frenchman in the turret saying, "Now go away or I shall taunt you a second time!"

[TKG]

So the way to get less Bilas is he changes his schtick - which isn’t going to happen for monetary reasons - or we enter a period of sucking at hoops and he will not be calling our games as he part of ESPN’s number one college basketball announcing team? Hmm...

[uh_no]

So the way to get less Bilas is he changes his schtick - which isn’t going to happen for monetary reasons - or we enter a period of sucking at hoops and he will not be calling our games as he part of ESPN’s number one college basketball announcing team? Hmm...

or more games on the ACCN. shudder.


also does ANYBODY like the 94' with bilas? didn't want to watch the game or anything...

[TKG]

or more games on the ACCN....

Eek gads, man...

[ChillinDuke]

contrast his call when they missed the duke goaltend yesterday vs when they missed the UNC one tonight...night and day.

It was hysterical. One night later, nearly the same play or at least a very, very similar near-miss goaltend off the glass, in the same Challenge event. The situation was about as close as you could get to a controlled experiment.

And there was Bilas, on night 1 going on and on and on about the call and on night 2 essentially taking the ho-hum approach "gee, it's surprising they get that wrong so often but oh well".

Bilas is a pretty polarizing subject around here, and I find myself more on the dislike side (as an announcer), but man was it an obvious difference between his call in our game versus last night.

- Chillin

[SouthernDukie]

It was hysterical. One night later, nearly the same play or at least a very, very similar near-miss goaltend off the glass, in the same Challenge event. The situation was about as close as you could get to a controlled experiment.

And there was Bilas, on night 1 going on and on and on about the call and on night 2 essentially taking the ho-hum approach "gee, it's surprising they get that wrong so often but oh well".

Bilas is a pretty polarizing subject around here, and I find myself more on the dislike side (as an announcer), but man was it an obvious difference between his call in our game versus last night.

- Chillin

And again I have to agree wholeheartedly. It really was amazing to have that play out on back-to-back nights like it did. I don't see how anyone could argue Jay isn't biased (for whatever reason) in his commentary during games. We all know he loves Duke and Coach K. He will forever be loyal to both. But his commentary is just so over the top anti-Duke (or whatever you want to label it) that I can't fathom anyone not noticing and agreeing.

[uh_no]

But his commentary is just so over the top anti-Duke (or whatever you want to label it) that I can't fathom anyone not noticing and agreeing.

It's rumored that to this day he believes grayson allen should be drawn and quartered. I give J-will major props for not toeing the company line on that one.

[Ggallagher]

Well for the fun of it, I think I'll throw some gasoline on the Bilas commentary. I decided to try a relatively objective evaluation of his work as an experiment. Before I explain the details, I will expose my personal subjective opinion.

I'm OK with Jay. He annoys me sometimes, but not nearly as much as he does some others here. For a long time, Vitale was nearly the most unbearable, but as someone mentioned previously, he does seem to be slowing down some, and either I've gotten numb to him or he just doesn't work so hard to talk about everything else going on besides the game he's watching. And I challenge anyone to change a channel faster than I do whenever Steven A. Smith pops up. I could go on about other talking heads, but that gives an idea of my feelings. Now back to Jay.

We had some work done on the house today, so I had time to kill where there wasn't much useful I could do, so I rewatched the Michigan State game and "scored" Jay's commentary. It was fun to watch anyway, but I thought it would be a good chance to get some sort of numerical feel for how Jay used his forty minutes of time during the game. As the game went on, I tallied up every comment that Jay made about the game. I broke it down as follows:

Duke Positive - He's spending his time talking about something Duke did well
Duke Negative - He's commenting about something Duke did wrong or should have done better.
Michigan State Positive - Same approach for the Sparties
Michigan Stage Negative - Did the Sparties screw up.

I did not try to capture whether I agreed with him or not - although I only recall two or three times where I thought he took a possibly inaccurate position.

And the final score was:
Duke Positive 60 times plus Michigan State negative 37 times. So that's 97 times that he leaned or commented in favor of Duke
Duke Negative 27 times plus Michigan State positive 15 times. So that's 42 times he leaned towards MSU

So for what it's worth, he was leaning toward Duke more than twice as much as MSU.

Everyone fell better now :)

[uh_no]

We had some work done on the house today, so I had time to kill where there wasn't much useful I could do, so I rewatched the Michigan State game and "scored" Jay's commentary. It was fun to watch anyway, but I thought it would be a good chance to get some sort of numerical feel for how Jay used his forty minutes of time during the game. As the game went on, I tallied up every comment that Jay made about the game. I broke it down as follows:

Duke Positive - He's spending his time talking about something Duke did well
Duke Negative - He's commenting about something Duke did wrong or should have done better.
Michigan State Positive - Same approach for the Sparties
Michigan Stage Negative - Did the Sparties screw up.

I did not try to capture whether I agreed with him or not - although I only recall two or three times where I thought he took a possibly inaccurate position.


This comment is peak DBR. pack it up, guys, time to go home!

:D

[moonpie23]

Well for the fun of it, I think I'll throw some gasoline on the Bilas commentary. I decided to try a relatively objective evaluation of his work as an experiment. Before I explain the details, I will expose my personal subjective opinion.

I'm OK with Jay. He annoys me sometimes, but not nearly as much as he does some others here. For a long time, Vitale was nearly the most unbearable, but as someone mentioned previously, he does seem to be slowing down some, and either I've gotten numb to him or he just doesn't work so hard to talk about everything else going on besides the game he's watching. And I challenge anyone to change a channel faster than I do whenever Steven A. Smith pops up. I could go on about other talking heads, but that gives an idea of my feelings. Now back to Jay.

We had some work done on the house today, so I had time to kill where there wasn't much useful I could do, so I rewatched the Michigan State game and "scored" Jay's commentary. It was fun to watch anyway, but I thought it would be a good chance to get some sort of numerical feel for how Jay used his forty minutes of time during the game. As the game went on, I tallied up every comment that Jay made about the game. I broke it down as follows:

Duke Positive - He's spending his time talking about something Duke did well
Duke Negative - He's commenting about something Duke did wrong or should have done better.
Michigan State Positive - Same approach for the Sparties
Michigan Stage Negative - Did the Sparties screw up.

I did not try to capture whether I agreed with him or not - although I only recall two or three times where I thought he took a possibly inaccurate position.

And the final score was:
Duke Positive 60 times plus Michigan State negative 37 times. So that's 97 times that he leaned or commented in favor of Duke
Duke Negative 27 times plus Michigan State positive 15 times. So that's 42 times he leaned towards MSU

So for what it's worth, he was leaning toward Duke more than twice as much as MSU.

Everyone fell better now :)

thanks for the work you put into this....it's odd to see it come out like that.....

[KandG]

We had some work done on the house today, so I had time to kill where there wasn't much useful I could do, so I rewatched the Michigan State game and "scored" Jay's commentary. It was fun to watch anyway, but I thought it would be a good chance to get some sort of numerical feel for how Jay used his forty minutes of time during the game. As the game went on, I tallied up every comment that Jay made about the game. I broke it down as follows:

Duke Positive - He's spending his time talking about something Duke did well
Duke Negative - He's commenting about something Duke did wrong or should have done better.
Michigan State Positive - Same approach for the Sparties
Michigan Stage Negative - Did the Sparties screw up.

I did not try to capture whether I agreed with him or not - although I only recall two or three times where I thought he took a possibly inaccurate position.

And the final score was:
Duke Positive 60 times plus Michigan State negative 37 times. So that's 97 times that he leaned or commented in favor of Duke
Duke Negative 27 times plus Michigan State positive 15 times. So that's 42 times he leaned towards MSU

So for what it's worth, he was leaning toward Duke more than twice as much as MSU.



And this is what Jay should have done, because Duke was great and MSU was terrible. Might be different on a night where Duke is struggling. I just find it hilarious when people selectively compare and contrast his commentary on successive nights for Duke and UNC to reinforce their biases. ("LOOK AT THE DIFFERENCE IN HOW HE CALLED THOSE GOALTENDS")

Hey, whatever makes it easier for you to sleep at night. Personally, I saw Duke stomp a good opponent on the road and UNC get poleaxed at home. As far as I could tell, Bilas was impressed with Duke and pretty unimpressed with UNC. OK by me!

[OldPhiKap]

Well for the fun of it, I think I'll throw some gasoline on the Bilas commentary. I decided to try a relatively objective evaluation of his work as an experiment. Before I explain the details, I will expose my personal subjective opinion.

I'm OK with Jay. He annoys me sometimes, but not nearly as much as he does some others here. For a long time, Vitale was nearly the most unbearable, but as someone mentioned previously, he does seem to be slowing down some, and either I've gotten numb to him or he just doesn't work so hard to talk about everything else going on besides the game he's watching. And I challenge anyone to change a channel faster than I do whenever Steven A. Smith pops up. I could go on about other talking heads, but that gives an idea of my feelings. Now back to Jay.

We had some work done on the house today, so I had time to kill where there wasn't much useful I could do, so I rewatched the Michigan State game and "scored" Jay's commentary. It was fun to watch anyway, but I thought it would be a good chance to get some sort of numerical feel for how Jay used his forty minutes of time during the game. As the game went on, I tallied up every comment that Jay made about the game. I broke it down as follows:

Duke Positive - He's spending his time talking about something Duke did well
Duke Negative - He's commenting about something Duke did wrong or should have done better.
Michigan State Positive - Same approach for the Sparties
Michigan Stage Negative - Did the Sparties screw up.

I did not try to capture whether I agreed with him or not - although I only recall two or three times where I thought he took a possibly inaccurate position.

And the final score was:
Duke Positive 60 times plus Michigan State negative 37 times. So that's 97 times that he leaned or commented in favor of Duke
Duke Negative 27 times plus Michigan State positive 15 times. So that's 42 times he leaned towards MSU

So for what it's worth, he was leaning toward Duke more than twice as much as MSU.

Everyone fell better now :)

Don't let the facts or objective analysis get in the way of a good narrative.

[uh_no]

Don't let the facts or objective analysis get in the way of a good narrative.

in THIS case, you would expect there to be more positive coments about duke since they were cruising. The question is twofold:

- would the margin be similar were duke getting blown out?
- does the degree of the positivity matter? For instance, he was negative on both the duke and UNC blown goaltends, but he was significantly more negative on the duke than the UNC one. That would not have been captured in a binary analysis, but likely would have a major impact on people's overall impressions of Jay's biases.

[DukieInKansas]

yeah, one minute you're watching a basketball game and the next you're learning about blue whales or koalas or something. Walton is on a a trip!

fify :d

[SouthernDukie]

in THIS case, you would expect there to be more positive coments about duke since they were cruising. The question is twofold:

- would the margin be similar were duke getting blown out?
- does the degree of the positivity matter? For instance, he was negative on both the duke and UNC blown goaltends, but he was significantly more negative on the duke than the UNC one. That would not have been captured in a binary analysis, but likely would have a major impact on people's overall impressions of Jay's biases.

I appreciate the hard work and documenting, Ggallagher. Thank you for doing that work.

Having said that, I have to agree with uh no. Had I not deleted the game already I'd have been glad to go back and do some objective research as well. The problem isn't about how many times Jay says something "positive" or "negative" about Duke vs MSU. The issue is the degree, tone of voice, and whether or not he reacts to perceived bad calls the same way across the board. I state emphatically that he does NOT react the same way. And I question anyone that doesn't pick up on that. No offense intended.

Some of you can now get another good laugh. :)

[Ggallagher]

I appreciate the hard work and documenting, Ggallagher. Thank you for doing that work.

Having said that, I have to agree with uh no. Had I not deleted the game already I'd have been glad to go back and do some objective research as well. The problem isn't about how many times Jay says something "positive" or "negative" about Duke vs MSU. The issue is the degree, tone of voice, and whether or not he reacts to perceived bad calls the same way across the board. I state emphatically that he does NOT react the same way. And I question anyone that doesn't pick up on that. No offense intended. Some of you can now get another good laugh. :)

No offense taken whatsoever. I figured this was as likely to create new arguments as it was to silence old ones. And not to get in the mode of going out and buying a better whip to beat a dead horse.....

I did consider how the nature of the game might have changed Jay's commentary. A different take on the fact that the game was in fact so positive for Duke, is that it presented numerous opportunities to step up and say things like..."Well Duke scored then because they got away with two solid bumps before taking the shot" And he did actually make a comment like that - which I recorded as Duke-negative.

So that was fun, but in the future I'll just watch for fun.

Go Devils

[rsvman]

Here's a Bilas drinking game!

-Take a drink every time he says, "That was not a good offensive possession for ________."

-Take a drink every time he says, "I have to believe that was not the shot that Coach _______ wanted."

-Take a drink every time he says, "________ has got to do better," or "_____ has got to BE better."

-Take a drink every time he disagrees with a call by one of the officials.



See if you can make it to halftime! ;-)

[budwom]

my own unofficial assessment was simply vis a vis foul calls, and i gave up after Jay went 4-0 in favor of MSU...even I could discern a trend.
Jay does know hoops, and he does (and did) praise the things Duke does well, primarily because Duke did a lot of good things well in that game...but his fouling whinage does get tedious.

[SouthernDukie]

No offense taken whatsoever. I figured this was as likely to create new arguments as it was to silence old ones. And not to get in the mode of going out and buying a better whip to beat a dead horse...

I did consider how the nature of the game might have changed Jay's commentary. A different take on the fact that the game was in fact so positive for Duke, is that it presented numerous opportunities to step up and say things like..."Well Duke scored then because they got away with two solid bumps before taking the shot" And he did actually make a comment like that - which I recorded as Duke-negative.

So that was fun, but in the future I'll just watch for fun.

Go Devils

Glad to hear you recorded that one statement by Jay as a Duke negative. I remember it well. Makes me feel better about your analysis (not that that means anything or you need my approval - LOL).

Perhaps, as a final attempt to find middle ground, I might add that for myself I'm not so much interested in generic statements from Mr Bilas about whether or not Duke is good. Things like, "Tre Jones is the best defensive guard in the country" or "this Duke team is one of the best I've seen in years defensively" are not what I'm referring to when it comes to Bilas bias. I'm specifically talking about harping on officiating. Had you only been focused on that as opposed to overall "positive" or "negative" comments concerning Duke would the percentages have changed? I have to believe they would have.

[arnie]

I appreciate the hard work and documenting, Ggallagher. Thank you for doing that work.

Having said that, I have to agree with uh no. Had I not deleted the game already I'd have been glad to go back and do some objective research as well. The problem isn't about how many times Jay says something "positive" or "negative" about Duke vs MSU. The issue is the degree, tone of voice, and whether or not he reacts to perceived bad calls the same way across the board. I state emphatically that he does NOT react the same way. And I question anyone that doesn't pick up on that. No offense intended.

Some of you can now get another good laugh. :)

My disdain for Bilas is not whether he’s pro or anti-Duke. My issue is with his enormous ego and arrogance. I recognize many in that field come across with those attributes, but his pompous evaluations grate on me. After hearing David Glenn on local radio for 5 minutes today, I think Bilas and Glenn are the same person (they’re both attorneys and let you know they’re smarter than you are).

[Monmouth77]

my own unofficial assessment was simply vis a vis foul calls, and i gave up after Jay went 4-0 in favor of MSU...even I could discern a trend.
Jay does know hoops, and he does (and did) praise the things Duke does well, primarily because Duke did a lot of good things well in that game...but his fouling whinage does get tedious.

This largely captures my assessment. I like Jay as an analyst, and when he is actually discussing strategy and execution I appreciate his commentary. But he devotes so much time to second-guessing the officiating that it becomes a distraction. We don't need Zapruder film analysis of a bunch of 50-50 foul calls every game. This isn't football. There are a zillion possessions. Just call the game. Sheesh.

[TKG]

Well for the fun of it, I think I'll throw some gasoline on the Bilas commentary. I decided to try a relatively objective evaluation of his work as an experiment. Before I explain the details, I will expose my personal subjective opinion.

I'm OK with Jay. He annoys me sometimes, but not nearly as much as he does some others here. For a long time, Vitale was nearly the most unbearable, but as someone mentioned previously, he does seem to be slowing down some, and either I've gotten numb to him or he just doesn't work so hard to talk about everything else going on besides the game he's watching. And I challenge anyone to change a channel faster than I do whenever Steven A. Smith pops up. I could go on about other talking heads, but that gives an idea of my feelings. Now back to Jay.

We had some work done on the house today, so I had time to kill where there wasn't much useful I could do, so I rewatched the Michigan State game and "scored" Jay's commentary. It was fun to watch anyway, but I thought it would be a good chance to get some sort of numerical feel for how Jay used his forty minutes of time during the game. As the game went on, I tallied up every comment that Jay made about the game. I broke it down as follows:

Duke Positive - He's spending his time talking about something Duke did well
Duke Negative - He's commenting about something Duke did wrong or should have done better.
Michigan State Positive - Same approach for the Sparties
Michigan Stage Negative - Did the Sparties screw up.

I did not try to capture whether I agreed with him or not - although I only recall two or three times where I thought he took a possibly inaccurate position.

And the final score was:
Duke Positive 60 times plus Michigan State negative 37 times. So that's 97 times that he leaned or commented in favor of Duke
Duke Negative 27 times plus Michigan State positive 15 times. So that's 42 times he leaned towards MSU

So for what it's worth, he was leaning toward Duke more than twice as much as MSU.

Everyone fell better now :)

Has this study been subjected to peer review?

[weezie]

Seriously, does Bilas get some sort of bonus every time he vocalizes that "Duke is running their horn set".

Y'know that sounds like a great drinking game idea for the next chat gathering.
Similar to the Southwest commercials of 2015. Epic presence.

[BLPOG]

...I think Bilas and Glenn are the same person (they’re both attorneys and let you know they’re smarter than you are).

And then I went to law school, and took a law degree /
And counseled all my clients to plead drove all of the Duke fans to near-insanity

[sagegrouse]

Not looking to pick a fight, but vocal criticism of Duke, for many of us, equals "Big Duke fan." You should ask Ms. Sage about my eruptions during Duke basketball games -- most of them are like, "You idiot -- you passed up a a wide open shot." "Don't make THAT pass!" "Arrgghh! There is NO energy on this team!" "Nice move -- you just dribbled into the corner -- dope!"

And at the end I say, "Good win, Duke!' Or, truly, "Stephen F. Austin de-SERVED to win this stupid game!"

[Billy Dat]

The comments on Bilas are similar to folks who talk about Duke getting all the calls. It is not about the volume of fouls called, it's all about when they are called, and what was happening in the game at that moment. The anti-Duke crowd will always say that a game could have had equal fouls called, but the calls against the other team will always either kill an inevitable comeback or fuel a Duke comeback. The fouls called on Duke are meaningless yet the ones called on the opponent are game changing.

I think Jay is fine, but I don't really get too worked up about these things.

One guy I really like is Jimmy Dykes. I know he has the Kentucky connections, but I think he's smart and points out interesting stuff about the game. I think about him calling our comeback against Louisville last season and he recognized, pretty early, that the game was far from over and Duke was showing signs of life.

Another guy I like, who is supposedly part of the ACCN, is Dalen Cuff. I heard him doing analysis for secondary and tertiary ESPN games over the years and thought he was great. I think he's an up-and-comer.

[luvdahops]

The comments on Bilas are similar to folks who talk about Duke getting all the calls. It is not about the volume of fouls called, it's all about when they are called, and what was happening in the game at that moment. The anti-Duke crowd will always say that a game could have had equal fouls called, but the calls against the other team will always either kill an inevitable comeback or fuel a Duke comeback. The fouls called on Duke are meaningless yet the ones called on the opponent are game changing.

I think Jay is fine, but I don't really get too worked up about these things.

One guy I really like is Jimmy Dykes. I know he has the Kentucky connections, but I think he's smart and points out interesting stuff about the game. I think about him calling our comeback against Louisville last season and he recognized, pretty early, that the game was far from over and Duke was showing signs of life.

Another guy I like, who is supposedly part of the ACCN, is Dalen Cuff. I heard him doing analysis for secondary and tertiary ESPN games over the years and thought he was great. I think he's an up-and-comer.

I really like Dykes, too, and wish he did more of our games.

I don't get too worked up about Jay, either, though I do think it's unfortunate that he has let his schtick increasingly define his public persona, as he is definitely still capable of lucid and insightful analysis when so inspired.

Separately, while I tend to agree with Jay philosophically with regard to the NCAA, I find many of the arguments he makes on those issues to be excessive and/or unconvincing. In other words, I would never hire him as a lawyer.

[Troublemaker]

It is surely odd behavior...I truly don't think he is anti-Duke per se, but what I assume to be his overcompensation is really over the top as I found out the other night. The mute button still rulz.

Yes, massive overcompensation, to the point that Jay's become a caricature of himself in his predictability, and the overcompensation taints almost everything in his commentary, i.e. not just referee calls/non-calls. For example, when he began talking about years when college basketball is weak at the top, I honestly no-poop would've wagered $20,000 that he would bring up 2010. (And I'm a good bettor -- have I mentioned recently that I am far and away #1 in the Degenerates league right now, including being #1 in both spread bets and over/under bets? I *have* mentioned it already? Oh, whoops.) And then when he started talking about years when college basketball is strong at the top, I honestly would've wagered my 3rd-born son that Jay would stroke 2009 UNC.

The man is just deathly afraid of being perceived as having bias. Maybe because the word "bias" is right there in his surname, maybe??? Psychological issues then? (Remember how Jay obsessive-compulsively started getting into the weeds and arguing with himself about that UNC team's 0-2 start when the entire world just wanted him to focus on Duke-MSU?) Have I hit on a real surname-based psychological condition? I wonder if there's a certain perfume Zooey Deschanel would never wear. Would seeing a certain soup in the grocery aisle cause Neve Campbell to scream?

[OldPhiKap]

And then I went to law school, and took a law degree /
And counseled all my clients to plead drove all of the Duke fans to near-insanity

That’s a bad example, Mister.

[duke4ever19]

Wow, folks. Listen:

We really need to focus our efforts on 'scoring' things that actually matter . . . like how many times Jay and Dan mention the fact that they are bald. I propose five main categories for your consideration:

Category 1: Bilas-initiated bald talk

Category 2: Shulman-initiated bald talk

Category 3: Any mention of the baldness of Dick Vitale and Seth Greenberg. [I propose that an one point (+1) be added to Bilas' tally if he initiates the subject. One additional point may be added if it is painfully obvious that Bilas has only broached the subject so that he can segue into yet another self-deprecating joke about his own shiny chrome-dome.]

Category 4: Praise of any basketball player's hairstyle. [+1 if Bilas initiates this follicle praise, as -- once again -- it is merely a thinly-veiled attempt to engage in the aforementioned self-deprecating joke about his own dazzling turtle-waxer.]

Category 5: Any mention of Alex O'Connell's hair, no matter how minor it might be. [Add one-point if Jay makes the comment. Add two-points if he does a hard-right turn into a joke about his own polar ice cap.]

[OldPhiKap]

Wow, folks. Listen:

We really need to focus our efforts on 'scoring' things that actually matter . . . like how many times Jay and Dan mention the fact that they are bald. I propose five main categories for your consideration:

Category 1: Bilas-initiated bald talk

Category 2: Shulman-initiated bald talk

Category 3: Any mention of the baldness of Dick Vitale and Seth Greenberg. [I propose that an one point (+1) be added to Bilas' tally if he initiates the subject. One additional point may be added if it is painfully obvious that Bilas has only broached the subject so that he can segue into yet another self-deprecating joke about his own shiny chrome-dome.]

Category 4: Praise of any basketball player's hairstyle. [+1 if Bilas initiates this follicle praise, as -- once again -- it is merely a thinly-veiled attempt to engage in the aforementioned self-deprecating joke about his own dazzling turtle-waxer.]

Category 5: Any mention of Alex O'Connell's hair, no matter how minor it might be. [Add one-point if Jay makes the comment. Add two-points if he does a hard-right turn into a joke about his own polar ice cap.]

No points from me until they discuss their erectile disfunction.

[HereBeforeCoachK]

Wow, folks. Listen:

We really need to focus our efforts on 'scoring' things that actually matter . . . like how many times Jay and Dan mention the fact that they are bald. I propose five main categories for your consideration:

Category 1: Bilas-initiated bald talk

Category 2: Shulman-initiated bald talk

Category 3: Any mention of the baldness of Dick Vitale and Seth Greenberg. [I propose that an one point (+1) be added to Bilas' tally if he initiates the subject. One additional point may be added if it is painfully obvious that Bilas has only broached the subject so that he can segue into yet another self-deprecating joke about his own shiny chrome-dome.]

Category 4: Praise of any basketball player's hairstyle. [+1 if Bilas initiates this follicle praise, as -- once again -- it is merely a thinly-veiled attempt to engage in the aforementioned self-deprecating joke about his own dazzling turtle-waxer.]

Category 5: Any mention of Alex O'Connell's hair, no matter how minor it might be. [Add one-point if Jay makes the comment. Add two-points if he does a hard-right turn into a joke about his own polar ice cap.]

Yeah, that is about 20 years past it's sell by date....so, what is your score on the BDI?

[House P]

What's Seth's constituency?

The NIT tournament selection committee? They certainly followed Seth closely when he was the coach at Virginia Tech! :cool:


I am personally indifferent about Seth (which, I think, is pretty much your point).

[DukieInKansas]

I think this Utah Kentucky game is the first game I've watched (mostly listened) when Bill Walton was calling the game. Please, make him stop! He is really annoying in large quantities.

[weezie]

Agreed DinK. Sometimes, for a few seconds every so often, Walton can be mildly entertaining but large doses are deadening to the senses.

That schtick is shabby.

[robed deity]

One thing that has confused me about Bilas this year is that on several occasions, he has referenced 2010 as a good comp for this year's parity. I don't remember it that way at all (I think another poster has pointed this out already). That year, Kansas was loaded (cold blooded Farokmanesh 3 took them down), Kentucky had Wall, Cousins and co. and Duke was maybe a bit under the radar but was loved by the computers all year. To me, there were 3 clear cut favorites, and to the public at large, at least 2. Is he thinking more about 2014?

[Hingeknocker]

One thing that has confused me about Bilas this year is that on several occasions, he has referenced 2010 as a good comp for this year's parity. I don't remember it that way at all (I think another poster has pointed this out already). That year, Kansas was loaded (cold blooded Farokmanesh 3 took them down), Kentucky had Wall, Cousins and co. and Duke was maybe a bit under the radar but was loved by the computers all year. To me, there were 3 clear cut favorites, and to the public at large, at least 2. Is he thinking more about 2014?

I also think most of the people who are referring to this as a "down year" or one filled with "parity" are confusing what's actually happening. Just because traditional powers like UNC and Kentucky are having poor seasons, doesn't mean that the teams at the top are "down" or that there's more parity among them. I would expect that the eventual national champion is currently ranked in the Top ~10 of KenPom's ratings. If it so happens that it's a team we don't normally equate with being a national champion contender, does that mean that it's a down year or that it's a year of parity? I don't necessarily buy it.

It's true that, right now, there isn't a clear runaway power at the top of KenPom's ratings. But it's also true that, early in the year, the team (or teams) that eventually ascend to those spots haven't separated from the pack yet. (I think part of this is due to how and when KenPom phases out pre-season projections. Eventually, the teams performing at a high level will rise up the efficiency ratings.)

[Pghdukie]

Walton, Bilas, or Dickie V ? Who would you prefer ?

[Indoor66]

I vote for none of the above.

[brevity]

Walton, Bilas, or Dickie V ? Who would you prefer ?

That sounds like the worst Kiss, Marry, Kill game ever.

[camion]

Walton, Bilas, or Dickie V ? Who would you prefer ?

In elections like this the write-in Giant Sinkhole might win.

[arnie]

Walton, Bilas, or Dickie V ? Who would you prefer ?

And you left out Dakich?😏

[gep]

Walton, Bilas, or Dickie V ? Who would you prefer ?

Off those 3, it is Dickie V for me. He is honest in his commentary. Bilas is too much into himself. Walton is simply unbearable. When Utah won, Walton kept pushing the conference of champions stuff. Yuck...

[DUKIE V(A)]

I used to enjoy Bilas, but he makes the same points every game. He is like a broken record and so smug. Unfortunately, I fear he has added a new, annoying “go to” comment to his arsenal. How many times are we going to have to hear Bilas talk about how hard Carolina plays on their way to a dismal season? I will wager multiple times every Carolina game and even more when they are losing (badly).

I realize I am way in the minority, but I enjoy Bill Walton (the king of hyperbole) and Dave Pasch. They have fun. Who can really take the PAC 12 Conference of Champions seriously anyway?

I also very much enjoy Bill Raftery (always) and Gus Johnson (especially in the big moments).

Dan Bonner is highly underrated and knows his stuff.

[AtlBluRew]

I’m watching the Wofford game late ... does the Elijah Lee interview ever end? Why do announcers keep asking people in the crowd questions?

[OldPhiKap]

Dan Bonner is highly underrated and knows his stuff.

He is my favorite color commentator, and has been for years.

[dukebluesincebirth]

I’m watching the Wofford game late ... does the Elijah Lee interview ever end? Why do announcers keep asking people in the crowd questions?

No offense to the kid, but I was so annoyed while watching it last night...one of the most awkward in-game interviews I've ever seen during a Duke bball game, and yes it went on FOREVER!!! WTH??

[CrazyNotCrazie]

No offense to the kid, but I was so annoyed while watching it last night...one of the most awkward in-game interviews I've ever seen during a Duke bball game, and yes it went on FOREVER!!! WTH??

I thought the kid was incredibly bright and very clever but the announcers had a few clear opportunities to end the conversation and it just kept going and going. They could have done the conversation at half time or pre-game.

[jv001]

I thought the kid was incredibly bright and very clever but the announcers had a few clear opportunities to end the conversation and it just kept going and going. They could have done the conversation at half time or pre-game.

I think the kids brother was wishing the interview would hurry and get over. He was clearly annoyed by the whole thing. I do have to give the young man credit, as he seems to be very intelligent. GoDuke!

[campered]

I thought the kid was incredibly bright and very clever but the announcers had a few clear opportunities to end the conversation and it just kept going and going. They could have done the conversation at half time or pre-game.

The young man has a great message and should have an opportunity to give it under better circumstances ie: when there ain't a damn basketball game on in split screen mode. What a distraction it was trying to watch the game and interview. Whomever decided on this maneuver during the game, should be banished from ESPN basketball broadcasts for thirty days and put on probation!!

[ChillinDuke]

I thought the kid was incredibly bright and very clever but the announcers had a few clear opportunities to end the conversation and it just kept going and going. They could have done the conversation at half time or pre-game.

He did strike me as quite bright. But it's a classic example of ESPN's promoting something that's not the game itself. Why was it during game action?! On a split screen?! AND so long?! There are and were so many ways to make it more palatable. Just ask him 2 questions during a timeout and plug a separate piece you do about him (I believe there was at least one timeout that didn't cut to commercial? could be wrong), do it during halftime, do it on your website or publish an article about him, do it pre- or post-game, do it without a split screen, just make it 1 minute instead of seemingly endless. And I'm not even a television producer! Imagine what a seasoned career TV or media guy could come up with to make this work better.

Frankly, it's one of the reasons why, even though many of you hate it, I have hope for the ACCN maybe, just maybe, focusing more on the main event and not getting sidebar'd. ESPN has watered down its sports content so much that it infuriates me at times like that. I came to watch a basketball game. Don't force me to watch something different. It should be my choice to share my attention with something off topic. Why must ESPN always make that decision for me?

Any sports outlet (CBSSN or The Athletic) or even a potential sports outlet (ACCN) that relies heavily, if not entirely, on sticking to the main point of the broadcast or topic will get my eyeballs, my channel clicks, my web clicks, and my $$$.

Alright, I'll stop now...

- Chillin

[weezie]

... it's a classic example of ESPN's promoting something that's not the game itself. Why was it during game action?! On a split screen?! AND so long?!

They should just feature interesting members of the community during the halftime show, instead of forcing everybody to listen to FesterSeth.

Run the usual commercials and save the money they are paying him.

[MartyClark]

The young man has a great message and should have an opportunity to give it under better circumstances ie: when there ain't a damn basketball game on in split screen mode. What a distraction it was trying to watch the game and interview. Whomever decided on this maneuver during the game, should be banished from ESPN basketball broadcasts for thirty days and put on probation!!

The young man was great. Bright, enthusiastic and fun. His older brother, not so much.

This would have been a nice 2or 3 minute interview. I don't understand why the announcers dragged this on for so long.

[uh_no]

The young man was great. Bright, enthusiastic and fun. His older brother, not so much.

This would have been a nice 2or 3 minute interview. I don't understand why the announcers dragged this on for so long.

Were I his older brother, I would have been annoyed that someone was trying to talk to me during the game as well.

[HereBeforeCoachK]

No offense to the kid, but I was so annoyed while watching it last night...one of the most awkward in-game interviews I've ever seen during a Duke bball game, and yes it went on FOREVER!!! WTH??

Because the little reporters who have this gig take as much time as they can squeeze in....and it's not like the play by play people can interrupt without being rude. So many of these go on FFFFFFOOOOOORRRRREEEEVVVVVEEEEERRR. I turn the games off.

[elvis14]

I’m watching the Wofford game late ... does the Elijah Lee interview ever end? Why do announcers keep asking people in the crowd questions?

I must be in the minority because I loved every second of Elijah Lee. The game was pretty cut and dry, we ground out a win vs an inferior opponent as expected. Lee on the other hand was just beyond fantastic and I couldn't get enough of him (his brother was quite disappointing, however).

[jacone21]

It was a 5 minute Disney+ commercial, and the Disney paid announcers were required to push it until the TV timeout.

[Furniture]

https://www.dukechronicle.com/article/2019/12/duke-mens-tennis-dick-vitale-diaper-dandies?fbclid=IwAR29NRIJ3PTWPnKrZTNFnJGR7-wA1LXhH2kJjd8s17lfq0Yz_pSw-27pRhs

[roywhite]

Just read JD King's piece from the front page:

Dakich Really Doesn't Understand The Duke-UNC Rivalry At All
Parochialism 101

Does anybody like Dakich? He's frequently wrong, but never in doubt, and talks constantly.

[Indoor66]

Just read JD King's piece from the front page:

Dakich Really Doesn't Understand The Duke-UNC Rivalry At All
Parochialism 101

Does anybody like Dakich? He's frequently wrong, but never in doubt, and talks constantly.

Damn, sounds like Bilas.

[MChambers]

Just read JD King's piece from the front page:

Dakich Really Doesn't Understand The Duke-UNC Rivalry At All
Parochialism 101

Does anybody like Dakich? He's frequently wrong, but never in doubt, and talks constantly.

I think Dakich knows more than most announcers. Unfortunately, he doesn't know as much as he thinks he knows.

No, I don't like him. He's better than Vitale and Elmore, but about the same as Bilas.

[budwom]

The young man was great. Bright, enthusiastic and fun. His older brother, not so much.

This would have been a nice 2or 3 minute interview. I don't understand why the announcers dragged this on for so long.

That's why in Vaudeville they had "the hook." Enough is enough.

[sagegrouse]

I think Dakich knows more than most announcers. Unfortunately, he doesn't know as much as he thinks he knows.

No, I don't like him. He's better than Vitale and Elmore, but about the same as Bilas.

The ideal announcer, former NFL broadcaster Ray Scott: "Starr. Dowler. Touchdown." Three words to describe a play. Translation for the young'uns: Bart Starr of the Packers passes to Boyd Dowler for a TD. The real problem is the second person in the booth -- then there's a competition, and we get ten times as many (fifty times?) words as we need.

[HereBeforeCoachK]

The ideal announcer, former NFL broadcaster Ray Scott: "Starr. Dowler. Touchdown." Three words to describe a play. Translation for the young'uns: Bart Starr of the Packers passes to Boyd Dowler for a TD. The real problem is the second person in the booth -- then there's a competition, and we get ten times as many (fifty times?) words as we need.

The GOAT is Vern Lundquist....instantly understanding that after "Laettner....YES!!!!!..." - to just be quiet for a long time and let the crowd noise and the celebration tell the story.

Vern was there and on the call for:
Laettner's shot
Hail Mary TD Auburn to beat Georiga and one week later...
109 yard missed FG return for Auburn V Alabama
Also for Tiger's tantalizing "ball on the lip" moment at #16 at The Masters.

4 amazing moments....any one of which could make a career. He was on the mic for all those and many more.

[arnie]

Damn, sounds like Bilas.

My thoughts exactly. Only difference, he shut down MJ to help prevent another Cheat championship.

[sagegrouse]

The GOAT is Vern Lundquist...instantly understanding that after "Laettner...YES!!!!!..." - to just be quiet for a long time and let the crowd noise and the celebration tell the story.

Vern was there and on the call for:
Laettner's shot
Hail Mary TD Auburn to beat Georiga and one week later...
109 yard missed FG return for Auburn V Alabama
Also for Tiger's tantalizing "ball on the lip" moment at #16 at The Masters.

4 amazing moments...any one of which could make a career. He was on the mic for all those and many more.

Verne is a home-boy and an acquaintance.

His recent autobiography, Play by Play (William Morrow) lists his top experiences as a sports announcer:

#1 was the Auburn-Alabama game in 2013, where a Bama field goal attempt at the end of a tie game was returned 109 yards by Chris Davis to win for Auburn.

#2 was a three-way tie (in chronological order):

Jack Nicklaus' putt on #17 at the 1986 Masters to put him in the lead over Greg Norman for his last major win.
The Shot in 1992
Tiger Woods' miracle "Nike logo" chip at the Masters on #16 in 2005, leading to a playoff win over Chris DeMarco.


By the way, the book is worth reading, if you are interested in the 1960s and 1970s, sports and otherwise. Later decades are memorable also. For example, Verne was on the air playing music for the LBJ family station in Austin (KTBC radio) in 1963, when the news director burst in and said "Give me the mike -- the President has been shot!" Other stories show how he built a career as a broadcast reporter -- lots of guts for an 18 YO.

[HereBeforeCoachK]

Verne is a home-boy and an acquaintance.

His recent autobiography, Play by Play (William Morrow) list his top experiences as a sports announcer:

#1 was the Auburn-Alabama game in 2013, where a Bama field goal attempt at the end of a tie game was returned 109 yards by Chris Davis to win for Auburn.

#2 was a three-way tie (in chronological order):

Jack Nicklaus' putt on #17 at the 1986 Masters to put him in the lead over Greg Norman for his last major win.
The Shot in 1992
Tiger Woods' miracle "Nike logo" chip at the Masters on #16 in 2005, leading to a playoff win over Chris DeMarco.


I had forgotten about the "Bear Tracks" in 1986......and I wish "the shot" was top, but Vern's an SEC football guy, and it doesn't get any bigger for him than Auburn Alabama being decided in an astonishing way.......and just one week after Auburn did it to Georgia in the final seconds too.....

[MChambers]

Dan Bonner is now on the BTN, doing the Indiana-Arkansas game with Lisa Byington (I think). They are very good. You don't feel like telling them to shut up. All announcers should be like this.

[HereBeforeCoachK]

Dan Bonner is now on the BTN, doing the Indiana-Arkansas game with Lisa Byington (I think). They are very good. You don't feel like telling them to shut up. All announcers should be like this.

I know a lot of Bonner fans around here...but he does a couple of things that drive me crazy:
First, an astounding grasp....of the obvious....
But the worst...there will be one of those "and ones" where the replay shows like 18 inches of air between the players...one of those where the ref anticipates there will be a foul....but isn't.....and Bonner will talk right through the replay and not mention that um, that was not a foul.

[sagegrouse]

I know a lot of Bonner fans around here...but he does a couple of things that drive me crazy:
First, an astounding grasp...of the obvious...
But the worst...there will be one of those "and ones" where the replay shows like 18 inches of air between the players...one of those where the ref anticipates there will be a foul...but isn't....and Bonner will talk right through the replay and not mention that um, that was not a foul.

I find his perpetual grin to be seriously annoying -- enough that I would never put him at the top of the heap. And it may be my problem....

[dukejim1]

I find his perpetual grin to be seriously annoying -- enough that I would never put him at the top of the heap. And it may be my problem...

I may not have him at the top of the heap but I can take his goofy grin (not on camera much anyway ) over “legends” like “Red Bull addict”Vitale, referee analyst Bilas, Space cadet Walton, and a legend in his own mind Dakich.

[sagegrouse]

I may not have him at the top of the heap but I can take his goofy grin (not on camera much anyway ) over “legends” like “Red Bull addict”Vitale, referee analyst Bilas, Space cadet Walton, and a legend in his own mind Dakich.

No problem with yoour view as of now (although I like Bilas more than 99 percent of the Board). But with Vitale's 6-6 grandsons coming to Duke to play tennis, will we have to take a more cordial approach to the man who made the "mute button" a necessity?

[brevity]

The GOAT is Vern Lundquist...instantly understanding that after "Laettner...YES!!!!!..." - to just be quiet for a long time and let the crowd noise and the celebration tell the story.

Vern was there and on the call for:
Laettner's shot
Hail Mary TD Auburn to beat Georiga and one week later...
109 yard missed FG return for Auburn V Alabama
Also for Tiger's tantalizing "ball on the lip" moment at #16 at The Masters.

4 amazing moments...any one of which could make a career. He was on the mic for all those and many more.

How could you leave off his call in Happy Gilmore (cued up here (https://youtu.be/8QJiAK-s5a0?t=71))? Or The Last Boy Scout (cued up here (https://youtu.be/fmxWHMIbUWM?t=71))?

Seriously though, Verne Lundquist also announced a few other memorable NCAA Tournament games: Northwestern State-Iowa 2006, George Mason-Connecticut 2006, Morehead State-Louisville 2011, Dayton-Ohio State 2014, Wisconsin-Florida 2017.

Multi-sport compilation here:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cO_pKjui0p0

[Pghdukie]

I may be wrong, but didnt Lundquist give the introduction speech for Terry Bradshaw at the NFL Hall of Fame ceremony

[roywhite]

I may be wrong, but didnt Lundquist give the introduction speech for Terry Bradshaw at the NFL Hall of Fame ceremony

Correct.

Here is a link that lists the Pro Football HOF presenters.

https://www.profootballhof.com/football-history/presenters/#1990

Class of 1989
Mel Blount - Dan Rooney, President, Pittsburgh Steelers
Terry Bradshaw - Verne Lunquist , CBS Announcer
Art Shell - Al Davis, Managing General Partner, Los Angeles Raiders
Willie Wood - Phil Bengston, Wood’s Head Coach with Green Bay Packers

[robed deity]

Watching this Temple-UCF game (hey, not much on) and Tim Welsh counts down his teams of the decade. He had Duke 2010 as no. 3. It's nice to see one of the more underappreciated teams get a little shout out. 2012 Kentucky was no.2 and 2018 Nova was 1. I might have flipped those 2 but I like the list.

[MChambers]

I’m fine with Jordan Cornette and Wes Durham, at least tonight.

[AtlDuke72]

I’m fine with Jordan Cornette and Wes Durham, at least tonight.

Wes Durham is the best.

[TKG]

Wes Durham is the best.

I have a bit of a different opinion on Wes Durham and it was on full display last night. He is nothing more that a shill for his Dad’s old employer, UNC , and perpetuating the myth of Dean Smith and the Carolina Way. During the broadcast last, Durham said, “At Carolina it’s always been about the players.” He was referring to the aw shucks, shoulder shrugging , not seeking the spotlight demeanor of both DS and RW. Public records have shown that both men cheated on a historic level.

Wes Durham is the perfect front man for the ACCN, Swafford and Cheat fans to have on the mike to help try to whitewash the three decades of cheating that went on in Chapel Hill.

[MChambers]

I have a bit of a different opinion on Wes Durham and it was on full display last night. He is nothing more that a shill for his Dad’s old employer, UNC , and perpetuating the myth of Dean Smith and the Carolina Way. During the broadcast last, Durham said, “At Carolina it’s always been about the players.” He was referring to the aw shucks, shoulder shrugging , not seeking the spotlight demeanor of both DS and RW. Public records have shown that both men cheated on a historic level.

Wes Durham is the perfect front man for the ACCN, Swafford and Cheat fans to have on the mike to help try to whitewash the three decades of cheating that went on in Chapel Hill.

I posted my appreciation before he did that junk. As far as calling the game goes, Durham's fine. But when he does the Roy hagiography thing it's pretty bad.

[DUKIE V(A)]

Enjoying Ian Eagle and Raff today (Sparty vs. Michigan); two of the best IMO.

[brevity]

Enjoying Ian Eagle and Raff today (Sparty vs. Michigan); two of the best IMO.

I started watching the game after your post, and I think what it boils down to is a simple matter of corporate philosophy.

Most of us on DBR prefer old-fashioned commentary where announcers mostly stick to the game, tell occasional tangential stories, but generally steer clear of personal opinion.

1. CBS hires announcers (or more likely retains announcers) who are old-fashioned.

2. ESPN hires announcers who fill up as much air time as possible interjecting their opinion, which likely adhere to ESPN's manufactured talking points so viewers know what and how to think.

Jay Bilas either IS that second kind of announcer -- it comes to him naturally -- or he was encouraged by Bristol to be that person. I'm not sure Dick Vitale gradually evolved into a parody of himself, or was pushed in that direction.

In the past I've remarked on how the college basketball season was disjointed: serious fans who have been watching ESPN from November to March have to adjust as casual fans and CBS step in like newbies for the NCAA Tournament.

So I used to wonder what the season would be like if ESPN had the postseason as well; would it feel more rewarding for those of us who have been paying attention for months? Now I appreciate the shift into the postseason, and wonder the opposite: will I enjoy the whole season more if I'm burned out by months of exposure to ESPN's personalities?

By the way, this post should close the thread. If you don't like the announcer, remember what channel you're watching and realize your complaints will be meaningless.

[budwom]

Enjoying Ian Eagle and Raff today (Sparty vs. Michigan); two of the best IMO.

It does disturb me a wee bit that Ian Eagle can't pronounce his own name, but then again, in the early 1980s, K couldn't either.

[HereBeforeCoachK]

Wes Durham is the best.

..he takes little subtle jabs at Duke.....

[TKG]

..he takes little subtle jabs at Duke....

Subtlety escapes him...

[HereBeforeCoachK]

Subtlety escapes him...

.....clearly.....(wait, talking about the poster or Wes?)

[TKG]

....clearly....(wait, talking about the poster or Wes?)

Wes Durham.

[budwom]

merit badge to announcer Dave O'Brien who, five seconds into yesterday's game, referred to Duke as the Blue Demons. My love affair with the mute button continues (I only caught this fox paw today after re-watching the game).

[Pghdukie]

Once his stellar officiating career is over - is there a spot behind the mic for TV Teddy Valentine ?

[richardjackson199]

Once his stellar officiating career is over - is there a spot behind the mic for TV Teddy Valentine ?

Having him there last night with the throwback uni's felt right. Too bad we couldn't have had Dick Paparo and Lenny Wirtz joining him along with Billy Packer helping to call the Wake game in his always unbiased fashion. Maybe Packer tried to get into Cameron, but was denied admission for failing to show his press pass ID.

Good day for blasts from the past:

https://www.espn.com/ncb/news/20000307/00406494.html

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jcwq-DZ3dds

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LfiN1a6X-UM

[Pghdukie]

Worse tech ever. And TV Teddy at his best ! Thanks rj199 !

[TKG]

Having him there last night with the throwback uni's felt right. Too bad we couldn't have had Dick Paparo and Lenny Wirtz joining him along with Billy Packer helping to call the Wake game in his always unbiased fashion. Maybe Packer tried to get into Cameron, but was denied admission for failing to show his press pass

Packer’s kid works for the ACCN, just like Woody Durham’s son. What a joke.

[HereBeforeCoachK]

Packer’s kid works for the ACCN, just like Woody Durham’s son. What a joke.

Mark Packer kinda got there a lot different way than Woody Jr...I knew Packer in the 80s, and he was involved in starting something called The Clemson Broadcast Group - he was tied into Clemson heavy, and of course, emphasized football. His group handled all the media for the coaches shows, the play by play, etc. It was a private entity....he is very entrepreneurial and I think has earned his chops while Wes has coasted on name. Packer also is a known pod caster talk host known as Packman.

I'm not advocating you like Mark Packer's work, or not, simply pointing out that he and Wes are not really analogs...

[sagegrouse]

Packer’s kid works for the ACCN, just like Woody Durham’s son. What a joke.


Mark Packer kinda got there a lot different way than Woody Jr...I knew Packer in the 80s, and he was involved in starting something called The Clemson Broadcast Group - he was tied into Clemson heavy, and of course, emphasized football. His group handled all the media for the coaches shows, the play by play, etc. It was a private entity...he is very entrepreneurial and I think has earned his chops while Wes has coasted on name. Packer also is a known pod caster talk host known as Packman.

I'm not advocating you like Mark Packer's work, or not, simply pointing out that he and Wes are not really analogs...

I blame my late father for not setting me up like that. I had to work for a living.

[TKG]

Mark Packer kinda got there a lot different way than Woody Jr...I knew Packer in the 80s, and he was involved in starting something called The Clemson Broadcast Group - he was tied into Clemson heavy, and of course, emphasized football. His group handled all the media for the coaches shows, the play by play, etc. It was a private entity...he is very entrepreneurial and I think has earned his chops while Wes has coasted on name. Packer also is a known pod caster talk host known as Packman.

I'm not advocating you like Mark Packer's work, or not, simply pointing out that he and Wes are not really analogs...

Why must you bring truth and accuracy into a perfectly good resentment?

[HereBeforeCoachK]

I blame my late father for not setting me up like that. I had to work for a living.

Well, my father was a doctor, and I'm not....so I'm with ya.......as for dads setting them up, that was clearly the case with the Durhams, but not really the case with the Packers. Mark went a different route than Billy. Wes is merely Woody 2.



Why must you bring truth and accuracy into a perfectly good resentment?

I know, my bad.....(plus, I didn't want to water down the resentment aimed at Wes)

[Phredd3]

Watched a replay of the UNC-Clemson game, just to savor a little. Bobby Cremins may be the most vacuous color commentator ever. His entire commentary consisted of saying that last play was "beautiful" or spouting coaching platitudes (they like to work the ball inside, they need to guard the three, they need to guard the post, etc.) depending on whatever the result of the last play happened to be. It was 100% results-oriented. I don't think he had a single actual insight for the entire game.

[Indoor66]

Watched a replay of the UNC-Clemson game, just to savor a little. Bobby Cremins may be the most vacuous color commentator ever. His entire commentary consisted of saying that last play was "beautiful" or spouting coaching platitudes (they like to work the ball inside, they need to guard the three, they need to guard the post, etc.) depending on whatever the result of the last play happened to be. It was 100% results-oriented. I don't think he had a single actual insight for the entire game.

Yeah. Bobby is better on the tennis court.

[bluebeagle]

Back in the early or mid 1990s when Bilas was first getting started in broadcasting he was doing reporting for the radio as a side line reporter. It might have been after the Clemson game in '95 but I'm not sure. Bilas was interviewing Coach K after the game and apparently asked a question that ticked K off. He really dressed Bilas down. I thought at the time that K and Bilas didn't really like each other. A few years ago K invited Bilas to address the new recruits before the season started and of course Bilas had to go all passive/aggressive by wearing a Carolina Blue shirt with a tiny Duke emblem across the pocket. His love for anything Carolina is just sickening.

[HaveFunExpectToWin]

Not sure if this belongs here.

During halftime of the Wake game, ESPN ran a short segment on Kville and gave credit to Dick Vitale for coining the term Cameron Crazie. Is this right? I found it hard to believe.

[-jk]

Not sure if this belongs here.

During halftime of the Wake game, ESPN ran a short segment on Kville and gave credit to Dick Vitale for coining the term Cameron Crazie. Is this right? I found it hard to believe.

I think it was Al McGuire. With a pith helmet.

-jk

[HereBeforeCoachK]

I think it was Al McGuire. With a pith helmet.

-jk

You may be right.....to my memory, McGuire would work the games, IIRC, with Dick Enberg of NBC...and he was the first one I remember noticing the unique atmosphere and making a big deal out of it. Then ESPN and Vitale took over reg season coverage....and Vitale became intrigued with the crowd. But I can't recall who first said it, in all honesty.

[arnie]

Different personality, but I routinely catch ex-Dukie, Seth Davis’ Top 10 on CBS. This year particularly, he’ s not that high on Duke. He has us 4th and still behind a 3-loss Kansas team.

Hard to understand that one except he unabashedly has Baylor 1st and I guess he doesn’t think Kansas loss to Baylor hurts.

[clinresga]

Back in the early or mid 1990s when Bilas was first getting started in broadcasting he was doing reporting for the radio as a side line reporter. It might have been after the Clemson game in '95 but I'm not sure. Bilas was interviewing Coach K after the game and apparently asked a question that ticked K off. He really dressed Bilas down. I thought at the time that K and Bilas didn't really like each other. A few years ago K invited Bilas to address the new recruits before the season started and of course Bilas had to go all passive/aggressive by wearing a Carolina Blue shirt with a tiny Duke emblem across the pocket. His love for anything Carolina is just sickening.

Really, that's what you took away from Jay's talk to the team? That he was betraying the Duke program, based on the color of his shirt?

Did you listen to Jay's talk? Have you ever listened to K discuss Bilas? Do you not think that Coach is in a better position to judge Bilas' commitment to the Brotherhood then you, basing your opinion solely on sartorial color choice? This is classic Bilas Derangement Syndrome.

[bluebeagle]

Really, that's what you took away from Jay's talk to the team? That he was betraying the Duke program, based on the color of his shirt?

Did you listen to Jay's talk? Have you ever listened to K discuss Bilas? Do you not think that Coach is in a better position to judge Bilas' commitment to the Brotherhood then you, basing your opinion solely on sartorial color choice? This is classic Bilas Derangement Syndrome.

No, I'm not basing my opinion solely on a color choice. I'm basing it from years of hearing Bilas drone on how duke gets all the calls. Much like B. Packer and L. Elmore of days gone by. On another note is BDS really a thing?

[HereBeforeCoachK]

Did you listen to Jay's talk? Have you ever listened to K discuss Bilas? Do you not think that Coach is in a better position to judge Bilas' commitment to the Brotherhood then you, basing your opinion solely on sartorial color choice? This is classic Bilas Derangement Syndrome.


How many of Jay Bilas' Duke broadcasts does K ever listen to? I"m thinking ZERO.

All the negativity towards Jay on DBR is based on his comments broadcasting Duke games.....something K would never see live and my guess, would never see, period.

[weezie]

...classic Bilas Derangement Syndrome.

Love this. Well played.

[Indoor66]

How many of Jay Bilas' Duke broadcasts does K ever listen to? I"m thinking ZERO.

Gee, the same number that I have ever listened to - and that includes all podcasts.

[clinresga]

No, I'm not basing my opinion solely on a color choice. I'm basing it from years of hearing Bilas drone on how duke gets all the calls. Much like B. Packer and L. Elmore of days gone by. On another note is BDS really a thing?


How many of Jay Bilas' Duke broadcasts does K ever listen to? I"m thinking ZERO.

All the negativity towards Jay on DBR is based on his comments broadcasting Duke games...something K would never see live and my guess, would never see, period.

So...I think one thing is unquestionable: Bilas is a huge Duke supporter, one of the earliest members of the Brotherhood, and a close friend and confidant to Coach K.

Beyond that, I think it's totally in the "ear of the beholder." I listen to Jay, hear a guy who knows a bit about hoops, is eloquent, and has a wicked sense of humor. If you can't enjoy "94 feet with Bilas," that's a shame. As for bias as an announcer, I would challenge anyone to actually find a clip where Bilas says "Duke gets all the calls." The rest is our perception of which way he leans, and I think this is the classic example of confirmation bias. You hear him constantly bashing Duke, I hear a guy trying hard to be perceived as unbiased, which is a task given that all the world knows how much he loves the Duke program.

If I were scientific, I'd keep a running total of the times when Jay questions a call favoring Duke, versus calls going against Duke. I'm guessing that it's closer to 50/50 than 0/100, as some DBS sufferers might believe. I probably won't, though :o

[HereBeforeCoachK]

So...I think one thing is unquestionable: Bilas is a huge Duke supporter, one of the earliest members of the Brotherhood, and a close friend and confidant to Coach K.

Beyond that, I think it's totally in the "ear of the beholder." I listen to Jay, hear a guy who knows a bit about hoops, is eloquent, and has a wicked sense of humor. If you can't enjoy "94 feet with Bilas," that's a shame. As for bias as an announcer, I would challenge anyone to actually find a clip where Bilas says "Duke gets all the calls." The rest is our perception of which way he leans, and I think this is the classic example of confirmation bias. You hear him constantly bashing Duke, I hear a guy trying hard to be perceived as unbiased, which is a task given that all the world knows how much he loves the Duke program.

If I were scientific, I'd keep a running total of the times when Jay questions a call favoring Duke, versus calls going against Duke. I'm guessing that it's closer to 50/50 than 0/100, as some DBS sufferers might believe. I probably won't, though :o

IOW, all of us on DBR, and it's close to unanimous, are idiots. Thanks for clarifying.

[jv001]

So...I think one thing is unquestionable: Bilas is a huge Duke supporter, one of the earliest members of the Brotherhood, and a close friend and confidant to Coach K.

Beyond that, I think it's totally in the "ear of the beholder." I listen to Jay, hear a guy who knows a bit about hoops, is eloquent, and has a wicked sense of humor. If you can't enjoy "94 feet with Bilas," that's a shame. As for bias as an announcer, I would challenge anyone to actually find a clip where Bilas says "Duke gets all the calls." The rest is our perception of which way he leans, and I think this is the classic example of confirmation bias. You hear him constantly bashing Duke, I hear a guy trying hard to be perceived as unbiased, which is a task given that all the world knows how much he loves the Duke program.

If I were scientific, I'd keep a running total of the times when Jay questions a call favoring Duke, versus calls going against Duke. I'm guessing that it's closer to 50/50 than 0/100, as some DBS sufferers might believe. I probably won't, though :o

I don't think Bilas is even close to being in the Elmore and Packer category but I do believe Jay bends over backward to: 1) distance himself from Duke when he's doing a Duke game. 2) For some reason, he seems to want to build up Uncheat. He has no problem when it comes to bashing the NCAA or calling out refs calls during a broadcast. However I never once heard him talk negatively about the years of academic fraud at cheatville. 3) It's evident that Jay is an intelligent guy and knows basketball but it seems to me he tries too hard to convince his listeners of that fact. I don't hate Jay Bilas and I like the fact he's one of the members of the team that started The Brotherhood at Duke University. However I wish he had played better defense on Never Nervous Pervis Ellison. :cool:

GoDuke!

[killerleft]

So...I think one thing is unquestionable: Bilas is a huge Duke supporter, one of the earliest members of the Brotherhood, and a close friend and confidant to Coach K.

Beyond that, I think it's totally in the "ear of the beholder." I listen to Jay, hear a guy who knows a bit about hoops, is eloquent, and has a wicked sense of humor. If you can't enjoy "94 feet with Bilas," that's a shame. As for bias as an announcer, I would challenge anyone to actually find a clip where Bilas says "Duke gets all the calls." The rest is our perception of which way he leans, and I think this is the classic example of confirmation bias. You hear him constantly bashing Duke, I hear a guy trying hard to be perceived as unbiased, which is a task given that all the world knows how much he loves the Duke program.

If I were scientific, I'd keep a running total of the times when Jay questions a call favoring Duke, versus calls going against Duke. I'm guessing that it's closer to 50/50 than 0/100, as some DBS sufferers might believe. I probably won't, though :o

Agreed! And I would add that Coach K certainly gets reports regarding Duke being mentioned in the media. We've seen plenty of evidence that K is attuned to how Duke Basketball is perceived.

Jay still gets on my nerves, though.

[elvis14]

Beyond that, I think it's totally in the "ear of the beholder." I listen to Jay...

OK, we we have a Duke fan here that knows Jay is a Duke alum and player and is basically admitting that he hears what he wants to hear.

I like Jay when he's not doing Duke and UNCheat games. He should not be doing Duke games.

[clinresga]

IOW, all of us on DBR, and it's close to unanimous, are idiots. Thanks for clarifying.

Wow, that's quite the generalization. I was just saying that a minority of DBR posters actually find Bilas tolerable. That in now way suggests that anyone who disagrees with me is an idiot. That's not the standard of DBR conversation I've come to enjoy over the years, under which disagreements are treated with bemusement but not ridicule. I don't think you're an idiot if you find Bilas biased and unpleasant, and I hope you don't either if I can actually enjoy watching him.

It may have something to do with the fact that I was at Duke, oh so many years ago, when Bilas and his class arrived and began transforming Duke hoops into what it is today. I'm one of the shrinking group of fans who were there when we went 10-17 and 11-17. Watching Alarie, Dawkins, Henderson, and Bilas was like a breath of air to a drowning man. I'll always carry an excessive fondness to Bilas et al due to that, I suspect. But nobody's an idiot on DBR!!

[HereBeforeCoachK]

I don't think Bilas is even close to being in the Elmore and Packer category but I do believe Jay bends over backward to: 1) distance himself from Duke when he's doing a Duke game. 2) For some reason, he seems to want to build up Uncheat. He has no problem when it comes to bashing the NCAA or calling out refs calls during a broadcast. However I never once heard him talk negatively about the years of academic fraud at cheatville. 3) It's evident that Jay is an intelligent guy and knows basketball but it seems to me he tries too hard to convince his listeners of that fact. I don't hate Jay Bilas and I like the fact he's one of the members of the team that started The Brotherhood at Duke University. However I wish he had played better defense on Never Nervous Pervis Ellison. :cool:

GoDuke!

I'll agree with you and raise you one better......regarding your point number 1: That bending over backwards has morphed over the years to playing to an ESPN audience, which is largely made up of Duke haters. I wouldn't be surprised if there's peer pressure in the "break room" and maybe even a corporate edict to slam Duke. After all, ESPN is NOT a news organization, and they are in business for one thing and one thing only: large audiences leading to big revenues. If having a Duke alum bend over backwards a little too much helps that mission, then of course this is what happens. And even if it's not a corporate edict, Jay clearly wants his job and is smart enough to know how to do it by being a little too "anti Duke" at times.

Now this doesn't mean I have to like or respect Jay's decision to do that. I don't, but I do understand it, and I simply can't believe anyone who's listened to him doesn't agree at least in part on this.

[Indoor66]

My problem with Jay is that he talks too much when doing a game. He is not alone in that.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Do we need a separate Bilas thread complete with a poll so that we can decide once and for all how many DBR posters are idiots?

[clinresga]

I'll agree with you and raise you one better...regarding your point number 1: That bending over backwards has morphed over the years to playing to an ESPN audience, which is largely made up of Duke haters. I wouldn't be surprised if there's peer pressure in the "break room" and maybe even a corporate edict to slam Duke. After all, ESPN is NOT a news organization, and they are in business for one thing and one thing only: large audiences leading to big revenues. If having a Duke alum bend over backwards a little too much helps that mission, then of course this is what happens. And even if it's not a corporate edict, Jay clearly wants his job and is smart enough to know how to do it by being a little too "anti Duke" at times.

Now this doesn't mean I have to like or respect Jay's decision to do that. I don't, but I do understand it, and I simply can't believe anyone who's listened to him doesn't agree at least in part on this.

I don't deny that he may try awfully hard to avoid being seen as biased towards Duke (which, deep down I certainly believe he is), and that in turn may lead to overcompensation when there's a close call to make. And yes, he's ultimately in the entertainment business, not "hard journalism" (though I won't even start to address whether such a thing still exists) and must be taken with many grains of salt. Then it comes down to how much or how little you've bothered by his verbal bias. You, more, me less. Totally get (and respect) your point of view. No idiots here, like I said!

[clinresga]

Do we need a separate Bilas thread complete with a poll so that we can decide once and for all how many DBR posters are idiots?

LOL. I'd resist the notion, because I think it would show I'm in the minority and thus I'd be relegated to idiot status.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

LOL. I'd resist the notion, because I think it would show I'm in the minority and thus I'd be relegated to idiot status.

Well, as a fellow idiot, there's safety in numbers. :)

[jv001]

Well, as a fellow idiot, there's safety in numbers. :)

Seems like I prove I'm one on a daily basis. At least that's what my lovely wife tells me. :confused:

GoDuke!

[sagegrouse]

So...I think one thing is unquestionable: Bilas is a huge Duke supporter, one of the earliest members of the Brotherhood, and a close friend and confidant to Coach K.

Beyond that, I think it's totally in the "ear of the beholder." I listen to Jay, hear a guy who knows a bit about hoops, is eloquent, and has a wicked sense of humor. If you can't enjoy "94 feet with Bilas," that's a shame. As for bias as an announcer, I would challenge anyone to actually find a clip where Bilas says "Duke gets all the calls." The rest is our perception of which way he leans, and I think this is the classic example of confirmation bias. You hear him constantly bashing Duke, I hear a guy trying hard to be perceived as unbiased, which is a task given that all the world knows how much he loves the Duke program.

If I were scientific, I'd keep a running total of the times when Jay questions a call favoring Duke, versus calls going against Duke. I'm guessing that it's closer to 50/50 than 0/100, as some DBS sufferers might believe. I probably won't, though :o

Moreover, if you recorded all my vocal comments on Duke games during play, they would be 90 percent anti-Duke: "What an idiot?" "Stick with your man!" "Carey's open! Carey's open!" And my own personal favorite, from my own mouth: "Stephen F. Austin deserved to win."

[tteettimes]

We’re ALL comedians 🤡👿🤡👿🤡👿🤡👿🤡👿👿👿

[HereBeforeCoachK]

I don't deny that he may try awfully hard to avoid being seen as biased towards Duke (which, deep down I certainly believe he is), and that in turn may lead to overcompensation when there's a close call to make. And yes, he's ultimately in the entertainment business, not "hard journalism" (though I won't even start to address whether such a thing still exists) and must be taken with many grains of salt. Then it comes down to how much or how little you've bothered by his verbal bias. You, more, me less. Totally get (and respect) your point of view. No idiots here, like I said!

Well how refreshing...no idiots....and actually, you and I are not that far off each others opinion. And yes, I am very bothered by his over playing and bending over backwards - because it gives tremendous credence to those who hate Duke for totally bogus reasons. It also gives every referee permission to go against Duke on any close call, because hey, even Bilas blah blah blah.....they do watch ESPN, guarantee it.

Now I understand why he does it, but I cannot respect those reasons. I do however very much respect your opinion as expressed above.

[clinresga]

Well how refreshing...no idiots...and actually, you and I are not that far off each others opinion. And yes, I am very bothered by his over playing and bending over backwards - because it gives tremendous credence to those who hate Duke for totally bogus reasons. It also gives every referee permission to go against Duke on any close call, because hey, even Bilas blah blah blah...they do watch ESPN, guarantee it.

Now I understand why he does it, but I cannot respect those reasons. I do however very much respect your opinion as expressed above.

DBR, one happy family :o

[SouthernDukie]

I'll agree with you and raise you one better...regarding your point number 1: That bending over backwards has morphed over the years to playing to an ESPN audience, which is largely made up of Duke haters. I wouldn't be surprised if there's peer pressure in the "break room" and maybe even a corporate edict to slam Duke. After all, ESPN is NOT a news organization, and they are in business for one thing and one thing only: large audiences leading to big revenues. If having a Duke alum bend over backwards a little too much helps that mission, then of course this is what happens. And even if it's not a corporate edict, Jay clearly wants his job and is smart enough to know how to do it by being a little too "anti Duke" at times.

Now this doesn't mean I have to like or respect Jay's decision to do that. I don't, but I do understand it, and I simply can't believe anyone who's listened to him doesn't agree at least in part on this.

With you on every part of your hypothesis concerning Jay and ESPN. That’s been my contention for a long time, and I believe DBR had someone with insider knowledge about the “politics” of ESPN basically verify our thoughts several years ago. The network’s top brass, other than for money purposes, has never cared for Duke while at the same time has loved Carolina. That’s axiomatic at this point in their history.

[sagegrouse]

With you on every part of your hypothesis concerning Jay and ESPN. That’s been my contention for a long time, and I believe DBR had someone with insider knowledge about the “politics” of ESPN basically verify our thoughts several years ago. The network’s top brass, other than for money purposes, has never cared for Duke while at the same time has loved Carolina. That’s axiomatic at this point in their history.

Lessee.... ESPN and Disney make a ton of money off of Duke hoops. The program is not only the best-known college hoops program in the US but also the one best known in other countries. Duke's ratings seem to be higher than most if not all college hoops. Coach K is an icon and the most celebrated hoops coach in the entire world, contributing to Disney profits. Moreover, the Duke basketball program is a bulwark against seedy and sometimes illegal behavior that shows up at other schools. So, certain execs are willing to hurt their company's bottom line (and their bonuses) so they can pursue some sort of vendetta against Duke.

Despite this vendetta, they have appointed Bilas to be lead basketball announcer. (Oh, that's right; he hates Duke despite graduating from Trinity and Duke Law and coaching at Duke and sending his daughter to Duke -- and writing the intro to one of K's recent books.) And JWill is a lead studio announcer and likely to advance over time

I am afraid I don't have a high opinion of your post.

[SouthernDukie]

Lessee... ESPN and Disney make a ton of money off of Duke hoops. The program is not only the best-known college hoops program in the US but also the one best known in other countries. Duke's ratings seem to be higher than most if not all college hoops. Coach K is an icon and the most celebrated hoops coach in the entire world, contributing to Disney profits. Moreover, the Duke basketball program is a bulwark against seedy and sometimes illegal behavior that shows up at other schools. So, certain execs are willing to hurt their company's bottom line (and their bonuses) so they can pursue some sort of vendetta against Duke.

Despite this vendetta, they have appointed Bilas to be lead basketball announcer. (Oh, that's right; he hates Duke despite graduating from Trinity and Duke Law and coaching at Duke and sending his daughter to Duke -- and writing the intro to one of K's recent books.) And JWill is a lead studio announcer and likely to advance over time

I am afraid I don't have a high opinion of your post.

Nothing you said contradicts my opinion. If anything it verifies it. ESPN loves the revenue Duke produces, but the higher ups, in their heart (not their wallets), prefer UNC to Duke (journalism majors, the now departed Stu, the former Prez of the network, etc). Both things can be true at the same time. And it explains the network’s complete silence and lack of investigative journalism into the Cheats.

[arnie]

To change the subject a bit, I enjoy the announcers tonight. They’re prepared, are providing reasonable commentary and neither is particularly pompous.

[mattyoung18]

To change the subject a bit, I enjoy the announcers tonight. They’re prepared, are providing reasonable commentary and neither is particularly pompous.

I disagree I've been watching for like 2 minutes and the one guy literally makes me want to hear finger nails on a chalkboard.

[mattyoung18]

Could we have a separate thread for only Bilas?😀

I agree Bilas is off the charts annoying. My wife is a unc fan and she thinks Bilas is annoying so that's all the proof we need.

[MChambers]

To change the subject a bit, I enjoy the announcers tonight. They’re prepared, are providing reasonable commentary and neither is particularly pompous.

It’s a little strange to hear Crispin do an ACC game, but he’s fine.

[Bluedog]

To change the subject a bit, I enjoy the announcers tonight. They’re prepared, are providing reasonable commentary and neither is particularly pompous.

The thing that is funny is it's Jay's partner....he seems like a totally new guy when not paired with Jay, haha. I agree - they are totally fine to listen to.

[HereBeforeCoachK]

Lessee... ESPN and Disney make a ton of money off of Duke hoops. The program is not only the best-known college hoops program in the US but also the one best known in other countries. Duke's ratings seem to be higher than most if not all college hoops. Coach K is an icon and the most celebrated hoops coach in the entire world, contributing to Disney profits. Moreover, the Duke basketball program is a bulwark against seedy and sometimes illegal behavior that shows up at other schools. So, certain execs are willing to hurt their company's bottom line (and their bonuses) so they can pursue some sort of vendetta against Duke.

Despite this vendetta, they have appointed Bilas to be lead basketball announcer. (Oh, that's right; he hates Duke despite graduating from Trinity and Duke Law and coaching at Duke and sending his daughter to Duke -- and writing the intro to one of K's recent books.) And JWill is a lead studio announcer and likely to advance over time

I am afraid I don't have a high opinion of your post.

Sage, you are conflating ideas and missing one point. ESPN makes money off of Duke in large part because of the tune in factor of Duke haters. Second, no one is saying Bilas hates Duke....it's that he's a coward on the mic and bends over backwards to be anti Duke on-air to appease the vast legions of Duke haters who watch Duke games hoping they'll lose.....and they watch a lot of ESPN during the daytime which also has its number of Duke haters. No one is saying Bilas hates Duke, but he does play to the Duke haters in his audience. TOTALLY DIFF THINGS

[SouthernDukie]

Sage, you are conflating ideas and missing one point. ESPN makes money off of Duke in large part because of the tune in factor of Duke haters. Second, no one is saying Bilas hates Duke...it's that he's a coward on the mic and bends over backwards to be anti Duke on-air to appease the vast legions of Duke haters who watch Duke games hoping they'll lose....and they watch a lot of ESPN during the daytime which also has its number of Duke haters. No one is saying Bilas hates Duke, but he does play to the Duke haters in his audience. TOTALLY DIFF THINGS

Yep. That’s the point.

[sagegrouse]

Sage, you are conflating ideas and missing one point. ESPN makes money off of Duke in large part because of the tune in factor of Duke haters. Second, no one is saying Bilas hates Duke...it's that he's a coward on the mic and bends over backwards to be anti Duke on-air to appease the vast legions of Duke haters who watch Duke games hoping they'll lose....and they watch a lot of ESPN during the daytime which also has its number of Duke haters. No one is saying Bilas hates Duke, but he does play to the Duke haters in his audience. TOTALLY DIFF THINGS

I am not conflating anything. The main point is that Duke is a major partner with ESPN, and ESPN, as a matter of business, loves all of the major college programs. It's a business, and it utterly doesn't matter where you went to school as an ESPN exec. You are asserting that the high level of viewership of Duke games is driven by Duke haters? Do you really mean that? That's totally nuts. People watch programs they are interested in and where they know the players. And the universe of Duke haters may be smaller than you think. Duke has always ranked at the top of the most-liked program -- but the point is that viewers get familiar with the players and coaches and follow them on TV.

My point about Bilas and JWill was a fillip to the main point about Bristol CT liking Duke and other major programs. If the execs at ESPN don't like Duke, why do they keep hiring Duke players as on-air personalities? So much for "conflation." So, you think that instead of the "cowboy at the mike" Curt Gowdy, Jay Bilas is the "coward at the mike?" A bit strong, eh? You are not gonna stand behind that point, are you? Bilas is in the entertainment business and has a schtick that most older listeners don't really appreciate, including me, but he's the main man at ESPN hoops. I don't hear anti-Duke bias in his commentary, but then I know how much he likes the Duke hoops program and idolizes Coach K.

[Reddevil]

Entertainment SPN understands what the E means. Everything is WWE now - even politics. There has to be a heel and a hero. Making Duke the heel works for the masses. We don't care for it, but that is irrelevant. Even WWE gives heels a turn now and then, but why risk it when this works for them? It helps if you are always aware that manipulation is always in play. Then you can pan out and laugh at human nature. Stay intellectually curious my friends. We always get a little freaky after a Duke loss.

[HereBeforeCoachK]

I am not conflating anything. The main point is that Duke is a major partner with ESPN, and ESPN, as a matter of business, loves all of the major college programs. It's a business, and it utterly doesn't matter where you went to school as an ESPN exec. You are asserting that the high level of viewership of Duke games is driven by Duke haters? Do you really mean that? That's totally nuts. People watch programs they are interested in and where they know the players. And the universe of Duke haters may be smaller than you think. Duke has always ranked at the top of the most-liked program -- but the point is that viewers get familiar with the players and coaches and follow them on TV.

My point about Bilas and JWill was a fillip to the main point about Bristol CT liking Duke and other major programs. If the execs at ESPN don't like Duke, why do they keep hiring Duke players as on-air personalities? So much for "conflation." So, you think that instead of the "cowboy at the mike" Curt Gowdy, Jay Bilas is the "coward at the mike?" A bit strong, eh? You are not gonna stand behind that point, are you? Bilas is in the entertainment business and has a schtick that most older listeners don't really appreciate, including me, but he's the main man at ESPN hoops. I don't hear anti-Duke bias in his commentary, but then I know how much he likes the Duke hoops program and idolizes Coach K.

You are still swerving off the main point, though you did finally get back to it. Is coward at the mic a bit strong? Perhaps so, but pick any word...he is playing a role on air more than being himself. I understand the schtick part of it, and I also happen to know from experience behind the scenes in media that there are those who have schticks...and those who are more true to themselves. Bilas has become more of the former, whereas I have more respect for the latter.

What you don't seem to understand is that WE ALL NATURALLY ARE INCLINED to like Bilas, because we are all Duke fans, we know he played at Duke, and some of us well remember that class of 86 and what they did for Duke. And yet, he has pushed so many of us away...even as we are inclined to like him. It sounds to me like YOU are the one with the prejudiced ear, not able to admit what he's become on air because of the natural inclination to like him.

I will also add that the last Duke game he did, he was different....it's like he was reading DBR or something. If that Bilas is the Bilas going forward, I will like him again as an announcer. We'll have to see. But that so many Duke fans don't like him is not a fluke. He's pushed us away (on-air).

[sagegrouse]

You are still swerving off the main point, though you did finally get back to it. Is coward at the mic a bit strong? Perhaps so, but pick any word...he is playing a role on air more than being himself. I understand the schtick part of it, and I also happen to know from experience behind the scenes in media that there are those who have schticks...and those who are more true to themselves. Bilas has become more of the former, whereas I have more respect for the latter.

What you don't seem to understand is that WE ALL NATURALLY ARE INCLINED to like Bilas, because we are all Duke fans, we know he played at Duke, and some of us well remember that class of 86 and what they did for Duke. And yet, he has pushed so many of us away...even as we are inclined to like him. It sounds to me like YOU are the one with the prejudiced ear, not able to admit what he's become on air because of the natural inclination to like him.

I will also add that the last Duke game he did, he was different...it's like he was reading DBR or something. If that Bilas is the Bilas going forward, I will like him again as an announcer. We'll have to see. But that so many Duke fans don't like him is not a fluke. He's pushed us away (on-air).

"The main point," which both my posts have adhered to, was a post above claiming information that insiders at ESPN in Bristol disliked Duke and implied that it affected decision regarding the airing of Duke basketball. I sincerely hope I demolished that ridiculous position -- to the applause of some of the powers-that-be here.

I recognize that much of this thread is about announcers and Bilas, which I used only as a supporting argument -- the prevalence of Duke grads on ESPN television coverage. And it was fun and, I hope, entertaining to bring up Bilas.

I have never swerved off my main point -- opposition to the view that there is a corporate bias against Duke at ESPN and Disney. That is not an "announcer topic," but was the feature of a post above which I found illogical. Holy cow! It is painful even to type those words -- ESPN bias against the best-known program in the country, the most sacred cathedral of college hoops, a world-class university, and the most highly regarded basketball coach in the entire world, both amateur and pro. It's a business, guys and gals! ESPN makes money off of Duke -- they love us, as I love all my customers.

Kindly,
Sage Grouse

[HereBeforeCoachK]

"The main point," which both my posts have adhered to, was a post above claiming information that insiders at ESPN in Bristol disliked Duke and implied that it affected decision regarding the airing of Duke basketball. I sincerely hope I demolished that ridiculous position -- to the applause of some of the powers-that-be here.


Kindly,
Sage Grouse


A: That about Bristol was NEVER my main point, and you responded to me. I posited it as a theory...that may have some impact...but not because Bristol disliked Duke, but because Bristol knows their audience dislikes Duke. I'm not sure why this is so hard to grasp. This is not just about watching the Duke games, it's about all the times Duke is mentioned on the endless number of shows, many of which show clips from games and/or have Bilas as a guest.

Perhaps it was worded clumsily, or perhaps people are reading into posts what is not there.

B: The main point of all the anti Bilas commentary that I've seen - including mine - is that Bilas is bending over backwards not to show favoritism towards Duke....and that this dynamic has morphed into actually a more aggressive anti Duke persona on air. Bristol this and that is just a side point, a tangent. This is 99% about Bilas' decision to do what he does. The other 1% is what other motivations there may be in the coffee break rooms or the board rooms or on the sets of Bristol...but that is only icing on the cake.

C: And again, I've not seen anyone posit that Bilas really hates Duke. Perhaps they have. That's never been the main issue.

Even more kindly,
CEW

[SouthernDukie]

"The main point," which both my posts have adhered to, was a post above claiming information that insiders at ESPN in Bristol disliked Duke and implied that it affected decision regarding the airing of Duke basketball. I sincerely hope I demolished that ridiculous position -- to the applause of some of the powers-that-be here.

I recognize that much of this thread is about announcers and Bilas, which I used only as a supporting argument -- the prevalence of Duke grads on ESPN television coverage. And it was fun and, I hope, entertaining to bring up Bilas.

I have never swerved off my main point -- opposition to the view that there is a corporate bias against Duke at ESPN and Disney. That is not an "announcer topic," but was the feature of a post above which I found illogical. Holy cow! It is painful even to type those words -- ESPN bias against the best-known program in the country, the most sacred cathedral of college hoops, a world-class university, and the most highly regarded basketball coach in the entire world, both amateur and pro. It's a business, guys and gals! ESPN makes money off of Duke -- they love us, as I love all my customers.

Kindly,
Sage Grouse

You are strawmanning my position, sage. I never claimed, nor implied, that insiders at ESPN make their decisions on airing Duke basketball because some of them are Tar Heel alum. The wallet always wins out over the heart in corporate America. I also never brought up Disney. I'm not a Mouseketeer (although I did have a crush on Annette and Cheryl Holdridge) so forgive me for not including them.

Just because some of us have seen what we believe to be blatant personal dislike for Duke/love for Carolina from some of the folk at ESPN does NOT mean we are saying ESPN would cut off their nose to spite their face. They are a business, first and foremost. But within that business if they can throw some shade at Duke and some love toward Carolina I say some of them absolute do that. And if there is no bias at the headquarters, please offer a logical explanation for ESPN being all but dead silent during the Cheats scandal. If you believe they'd have been just as quiet had Duke been the subject of the investigation, I've got some swamp land...

But hey, if you and the "powers-that-be here" think otherwise that's no skin off my nose.

As for Bilas, my opinion mirrors HereBeforeCoachK. He's spoken to that position well so I'll add no more.

[Dr. Rosenrosen]

Is this the right place to nominate Corey Alexander as the worst, most annoying announcer presently working for ESPN? He just seems to ooze pointless and often uneducated comments about anything and everything. For example, today during the first half of the cheater’s broadcast, even with all of the well documented (by ESPN!) effort that is currently being put forth by the Pelicans to improve Zion’s physical movements, he sat there and spewed nonsense about how and why Zion got hurt and stayed that the Pels really needed to invest in doing something different with him. And then there was some stupid rant about Pitt and Cheater father/son duos and that the sons are all shorter than their fathers and that it’s because they all have short mothers. What the...? Some guys just have no clue when to shut their mouths. As the saying goes, better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool than to open it and remove all doubt.

[AtlDuke72]

Is this the right place to nominate Corey Alexander as the worst, most annoying announcer presently working for ESPN? He just seems to ooze pointless and often uneducated comments about anything and everything. For example, today during the first half of the cheater’s broadcast, even with all of the well documented (by ESPN!) effort that is currently being put forth by the Pelicans to improve Zion’s physical movements, he sat there and spewed nonsense about how and why Zion got hurt and stayed that the Pels really needed to invest in doing something different with him. And then there was some stupid rant about Pitt and Cheater father/son duos and that the sons are all shorter than their fathers and that it’s because they all have short mothers. What the...? Some guys just have no clue when to shut their mouths. As the saying goes, better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool than to open it and remove all doubt.

Bilas also earned a nomination tonight. Critical play in the second half did not interrupt his discussion of the center on Kansas’ team. Then topped it after Duke missed an open 3 with 16 seconds by saying Duke did not need a three.

[killerleft]

The Duke-Syracuse TV announcers tonight spent less time actually talking about what was happening on the court than any duo I have ever had the displeasure to hear. Even Dickie V has never been this bad.

The Duke players in foul trouble? You better be keeping up with those yourself. Tre Jones hits how many free throws in a row, all needed to keep our working margin? Ditto. Duke is giving up some stuff inside so we can cover the threes? Who cares?

At least we know Carey can score inside and Cassius can jump.

[jwillfan]

The Duke-Syracuse TV announcers tonight spent less time actually talking about what was happening on the court than any duo I have ever had the displeasure to hear. Even Dickie V has never been this bad.

The Duke players in foul trouble? You better be keeping up with those yourself. Tre Jones hits how many free throws in a row, all needed to keep our working margin? Ditto. Duke is giving up some stuff inside so we can cover the threes? Who cares?

At least we know Carey can score inside and Cassius can jump.

Not sure who was worse tonight, the announcers or the officials
Split screen Corey Alexander mourning Kobe while the game was happening nearly a week out was...something. ESPN is maudlin.

[roywhite]

I enjoy ragging on the announcers as much as anyone, but my REAL pet peeve this season -- split screen during game action. Sometimes it's an interview, sometimes a celebrity or person of interest, and sometimes just a shot of a coach on the bench.

Show us the game!

[Dr. Rosenrosen]

I enjoy ragging on the announcers as much as anyone, but my REAL pet peeve this season -- split screen during game action. Sometimes it's an interview, sometimes a celebrity or person of interest, and sometimes just a shot of a coach on the bench.

Show us the game!
I beg to differ. As much I hate the split screen, the fan cam and the “end zone” cam are far more annoying.

[Pghdukie]

What a terrible production from ESPN. The announcers should go back to high school games. Not 1 on screen graphics about game stats. I was thinking that the announce team wasnt even on sight. And the split screen should just split. All in all the game action was good but the production was simply horrible.

[duke4ever19]

What a terrible production from ESPN. The announcers should go back to high school games. Not 1 on screen graphics about game stats. I was thinking that the announce team wasnt even on sight. And the split screen should just split. All in all the game action was good but the production was simply horrible.

If there were an option to watch these games with nothing but audio from whatever is happening in the gym, I'd choose it every time, especially at Cameron.

Everyone gets to hear from the commentators how great the Cameron Crazies are and how electric the atmosphere is, but unless you've been to a game in-person, you don't really get a good idea why the students and the atmosphere are so great.

Bilas and Vitale just talk over the Crazies to tell us how great they are. One day someone will say, "Hey, maybe the folks at home would like to experience a bit of that in its purist form?"

[sagegrouse]

Is this the right place to nominate Corey Alexander as the worst, most annoying announcer presently working for ESPN? He just seems to ooze pointless and often uneducated comments about anything and everything. For example, today during the first half of the cheater’s broadcast, even with all of the well documented (by ESPN!) effort that is currently being put forth by the Pelicans to improve Zion’s physical movements, he sat there and spewed nonsense about how and why Zion got hurt and stayed that the Pels really needed to invest in doing something different with him. And then there was some stupid rant about Pitt and Cheater father/son duos and that the sons are all shorter than their fathers and that it’s because they all have short mothers. What the...? Some guys just have no clue when to shut their mouths. As the saying goes, better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool than to open it and remove all doubt.

I thought he was uttering total gibberish. He'd launch a sentence without any idea what the point was and then pirouette a time or two before landing somewhere random.

[sagegrouse]

What a terrible production from ESPN. The announcers should go back to high school games. Not 1 on screen graphics about game stats. I was thinking that the announce team wasnt even on sight. And the split screen should just split. All in all the game action was good but the production was simply horrible.

I thought using the Clemson Tiger paw as the Syracuse logo was a nice move on the part of ESPN. :rolleyes:

[arnie]

Not sure who was worse tonight, the announcers or the officials
Split screen Corey Alexander mourning Kobe while the game was happening nearly a week out was...something. ESPN is maudlin.

Agree, agree, agree.

Corey Alexander signed up with ESPN to hear himself talk about himself. Bet ESPN doesn’t even have to pay him a salary. At least will never have both Corey and Bilas in the “booth” together, neither would agree to it.

[HereBeforeCoachK]

Not sure who was worse tonight, the announcers or the officials
Split screen Corey Alexander mourning Kobe while the game was happening nearly a week out was...something. ESPN is maudlin.

Yeah I kinda let out a wanker on chat while that was going on....he just would not shut up.....and on top of that, he is just boring and has a boring monotone voice that irritates.

[OldPhiKap]

I beg to differ. As much I hate the split screen, the fan cam and the “end zone” cam are far more annoying.

I am damn tired of the first game going long, so we miss the beginning of our game. We do not have ESPN-News on our system, and I don’t want to stream the first five minutes trying to get several folks around the phone to watch.

Between this and ACCN, this has been a most unsatisfying year to try to watch this sport. May need a new hobby. Books don’t make themselves difficult to read.

[TKG]

I am damn tired of the first game going long, so we miss the beginning of our game. We do not have ESPN-News on our system, and I don’t want to stream the first five minutes trying to get several folks around the phone to watch.

Between this and ACCN, this has been a most unsatisfying year to try to watch this sport. May need a new hobby. Books don’t make themselves difficult to read.

Qu’est-ce que c’est books?

[OldPhiKap]

Qu’est-ce que c’est books?

Une ancienne forme de divertissement. I guess.

[HereBeforeCoachK]

I am damn tired of the first game going long, so we miss the beginning of our game. We do not have ESPN-News on our system, and I don’t want to stream the first five minutes trying to get several folks around the phone to watch.

Between this and ACCN, this has been a most unsatisfying year to try to watch this sport. May need a new hobby. Books don’t make themselves difficult to read.

AMEN bros.....it has been a most unsatisfying year for the reasons you mention. Last night I missed several minutes not knowing to go to ESPN News...as Hulu doesn't give you the clues....and then next thing I know, thinking I'm in a commercial break, I realize I'm watching some downer documentary......before I realized it must be time to go back to ESPN....so I missed some more of the game.

And yeah, books are now easier to read - Kindle - (or consume by audio) than ever.

[Sixthman]

I enjoy ragging on the announcers as much as anyone, but my REAL pet peeve this season -- split screen during game action. Sometimes it's an interview, sometimes a celebrity or person of interest, and sometimes just a shot of a coach on the bench.

Show us the game!

Completely agree. It’s exacerbated by the fact that the split screen rarely (in my experience, never) contains information about the game in process. In fact, I believe ESPN announcers have no access to in game statistics, as they rarely discuss then and frequently seem ignorant of them. An example is last night coming sometime in the last five minutes we learned that Duke struggled at the free throw line this season but did not learn that Duke was shooting well during the game. The only possible explanation for that is the announcer did not know.

[budwom]

Completely agree. It’s exacerbated by the fact that the split screen rarely (in my experience, never) contains information about the game in process. In fact, I believe ESPN announcers have no access to in game statistics, as they rarely discuss then and frequently seem ignorant of them. An example is last night coming sometime in the last five minutes we learned that Duke struggled at the free throw line this season but did not learn that Duke was shooting well during the game. The only possible explanation for that is the announcer did not know.

The split screen turns that 55 inch TV you have into the 24 inch model you always wanted.
As for the production, it's also annoying that they rarely show the inbounds pass anymore, for some unknown artistic reason.
But the mute button continues to do its work.

[HereBeforeCoachK]

Completely agree. It’s exacerbated by the fact that the split screen rarely (in my experience, never) contains information about the game in process. In fact, I believe ESPN announcers have no access to in game statistics, as they rarely discuss then and frequently seem ignorant of them. An example is last night coming sometime in the last five minutes we learned that Duke struggled at the free throw line this season but did not learn that Duke was shooting well during the game. The only possible explanation for that is the announcer did not know.

.....or, another explanation....the announcers were both self absorbed jackazzzes who thought they were the show.....

[Indoor66]

Agree, agree, agree.

Corey Alexander signed up with ESPN to hear himself talk about himself. Bet ESPN doesn’t even have to pay him a salary. At least will never have both Corey and Bilas in the “booth” together, neither would agree to it.

With 1 microphone and watch the fight!

[CrazyNotCrazie]

I am damn tired of the first game going long, so we miss the beginning of our game. We do not have ESPN-News on our system, and I don’t want to stream the first five minutes trying to get several folks around the phone to watch.

Between this and ACCN, this has been a most unsatisfying year to try to watch this sport. May need a new hobby. Books don’t make themselves difficult to read.

I get ESPN News and last night was fortunate to be watching live so made the switch. But since most games are around bedtime for my little Crazies, I record the majority and watch via catchup (i.e. skipping commercials and halftime), so when they do the switches, I miss it. I think shifting the start of the game to another network is their way to stick it to people like me who don't watch live and fast forward through commercials.

I also don't get the ACCN, so don't get me started on that.

[SoCalDukeFan]

Put games like this on two channels.

One with "normal" ESPN production.

Another with the game, no announcers, crowd sound from the venue.
On timeouts when the normal broadcast is not showing an ad but the commentators talking, then show the game stats.

I can't think of a Duke win that I watched on TV and enjoyed less. While some was my frustration with the zone, fouls etc. much was the production.
Corey Alexander must have spent hours studying Dick Vitale and learning how to talk about himself rather than the game.

SoCal

[sagegrouse]

The split screen turns that 55 inch TV you have into the 24 inch model you always wanted.
As for the production, it's also annoying that they rarely show the inbounds pass anymore, for some unknown artistic reason.
But the mute button continues to do its work.

Absolutely, and last night wasn't as bad as some cutouts, which reduce the area of the screen by 75 percent. It looks like a plan by ESPN to divert coverage at about the "under eight" point in the first half. Seems to happen every game.

[Adaephon]

I just got tired of hearing extra syllables in the word "foul".

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Put games like this on two channels.

One with "normal" ESPN production.

Another with the game, no announcers, crowd sound from the venue.
On timeouts when the normal broadcast is not showing an ad but the commentators talking, then show the game stats.

I can't think of a Duke win that I watched on TV and enjoyed less. While some was my frustration with the zone, fouls etc. much was the production.
Corey Alexander must have spent hours studying Dick Vitale and learning how to talk about himself rather than the game.

SoCal

I would watch this, always. I have no need for commentators explaining things to me or going off on tangents. Give me crowd noise, choice replays, and relevant stats and I will be a happy viewer.

[WiJoe]

I'll take Tim Brando & Mike Gminski all day, every day. As much as oldies despised Billy Packer, even he would be preferablele to "analysts" Cory Alexander and Jordan Cornette, et al. Schulman, Bilas and Vitale all despicable. Agree with earlier poster(s); just give me the natural sound. Also, statbroadcast.com has best live stats; unfortunately, it's not always available without password, which is quite annoying.

[AtlBluRew]

I am damn tired of the first game going long, so we miss the beginning of our game. We do not have ESPN-News on our system, and I don’t want to stream the first five minutes trying to get several folks around the phone to watch.

Between this and ACCN, this has been a most unsatisfying year to try to watch this sport. May need a new hobby. Books don’t make themselves difficult to read.

I agree 100%. I even wrote as much to the Duke SID.

[HereBeforeCoachK]

I'll take Tim Brando & Mike Gminski all day, every day. As much as oldies despised Billy Packer, even he would be preferablele to "analysts" Cory Alexander and Jordan Cornette, et al. Schulman, Bilas and Vitale all despicable. Agree with earlier poster(s); just give me the natural sound. Also, statbroadcast.com has best live stats; unfortunately, it's not always available without password, which is quite annoying.

If Schulman and Vitale do one more routine of comparing their "bald domes" - I'll slit my wrists....

[WiJoe]

If Schulman and Vitale do one more routine of comparing their "bald domes" - I'll slit my wrists...

glad I missed that

[TKG]

I agree 100%. I even wrote as much to the Duke SID.

Or Vital mentioning his age and that he is visually impaired in one eye. Do some preparation on the teams playing for goodness sake.

[Pghdukie]

The commercial with the cat/toy on ACCN is more enjoyable than Alexander. Hands down.

[Indoor66]

I just got tired of hearing extra syllables in the word "foul".

Do you have a lawn? 😂😎

[scottdude8]

So, Michigan played Ohio State last night at the same time as the Duke game, which I recorded to watch at halftime and after. Turns out, Bilas was announcing. And he was in PRIME form.

The game was basically a wrestling match, with the refs refusing to call anything but the most extreme fouls (unfortunately this ended up costing my Wolverines in the end, it was a quite frustrating loss). And I'd say half of Bilas' speaking time was devoted to his frustrations with the officiating. So for all the Bilas haters out there, just know it is just during Duke games: his vendetta against the officiating this year is pretty consistent, haha.

[rasputin]

The GOAT is Vern Lundquist...instantly understanding that after "Laettner...YES!!!!!..." - to just be quiet for a long time and let the crowd noise and the celebration tell the story.

Vern was there and on the call for:
Laettner's shot
Hail Mary TD Auburn to beat Georiga and one week later...
109 yard missed FG return for Auburn V Alabama
Also for Tiger's tantalizing "ball on the lip" moment at #16 at The Masters.

4 amazing moments...any one of which could make a career. He was on the mic for all those and many more.

I'm late to this party, but Lundquist also had the call of Yes, Sir! when Nicklaus made the go-ahead putt on the 71st hole of the '86 Masters.