Featherston's Memory (DUMB past and present)

[grossbus]

in his write up about the exhibition games, he makes a lament about the DUMB wherein he says,..."But I can remember when DUMB covered half the field and could spell “Blue Devils” in script."

did that really ever happen? when i was in DUMB it was during some very strong football years and our on field numbers were around 80. as an all volunteer, no class credit organization i would find it hard to believe that it ever topped that by much.

Blue Devils in script would take 120 minimum.

whether this is true or not, there certainly is cause for his comments. sad. an outcome of the state of the football program?

[bdh21]

The situation can't be as bad as three years ago, in which DUMB could barely form the Iron Duke D, even with the entire drumline (which only had 1 snare!) in the formation.

The new director seems to be trying his best to turn DUMB around, but a good analogy for the Duke University Marching Band may be the Duke University Football Team.

[Highlander]

The situation can't be as bad as three years ago, in which DUMB could barely form the Iron Duke D, even with the entire drumline (which only had 1 snare!) in the formation.

The new director seems to be trying his best to turn DUMB around, but a good analogy for the Duke University Marching Band may be the Duke University Football Team.

I was at the VTech game and was actually impressed with the band's performance. They played the VT fight song to the visiting crowd following a moment of silence for the slain students. It was a very classy move, and just playing opponents fight songs (although other schools do it), is not something the Duke band has done since at least the mid-90's when I started.

I also thought the halftime show at the VTech game was pretty decent. All in all, I was impressed, especially considering how far the band had fallen in the past few years after the director changed.

As for numbers, the most I remember in the band was around 110-120 during my sophomore/junior year, and we didn't spell out "blue devils". I don't doubt that it happened once, but it would have definitely been before my time.

[Stray Gator]

Speaking of distant memories, does anyone else remember when it was all the rage for marching bands to do a formation with the game score during their halftime show?

[DukeUsul]

I was at the VTech game and was actually impressed with the band's performance. They played the VT fight song to the visiting crowd following a moment of silence for the slain students. It was a very classy move, and just playing opponents fight songs (although other schools do it), is not something the Duke band has done since at least the mid-90's when I started.

I also thought the halftime show at the VTech game was pretty decent. All in all, I was impressed, especially considering how far the band had fallen in the past few years after the director changed.

As for numbers, the most I remember in the band was around 110-120 during my sophomore/junior year, and we didn't spell out "blue devils". I don't doubt that it happened once, but it would have definitely been before my time.

I'll echo Highlander, who was a year ahead of me in DUMB. We definitely peaked at around 110-120 or so somewhere between 96 and 98. My senior year (98-99) we consciously made a decision to be stricter in our attendance policy and skill/talent policy. (I actually have the full 98-99 roster somewhere in an Excel file, I could probably go count how much we lost....) We decided we would rather be 80-90 and "good" (believe me I know how relative that term is ;-) rather than 120 and have a ton of dead weight. We seriously had a handful of people who didn't know their left from their right foot and couldn't blow a note on their horn. They just went through the motions for an easy entrance to basketball games. I'm kinda sad the numbers dropped as much as they did, but I still think it was the right choice.

[3rd Dukie]

in his write up about the exhibition games, he makes a lament about the DUMB wherein he says,..."But I can remember when DUMB covered half the field and could spell “Blue Devils” in script."

did that really ever happen? when i was in DUMB it was during some very strong football years and our on field numbers were around 80. as an all volunteer, no class credit organization i would find it hard to believe that it ever topped that by much.

Blue Devils in script would take 120 minimum.

whether this is true or not, there certainly is cause for his comments. sad. an outcome of the state of the football program?

I think he might be right. My now deceased brother was the drum major for a few years in the early 60's, and I THINK I recall seeing that a time or two. I could not swear to it, but it seems right.

[grossbus]

really! what was his name?

i was there 61-65. we never did a script blue devils. like i said, we were always around 80. in the pregame, we spelled out D-U-K-E a letter at a time.

[Stray Gator]

I don't recall the Duke Band ever being large enough to form a script "Blue Devils"...at least not without some highly imaginative, constellation-style connecting the dots. :D

[DU82]

As a long time DUMBer (78-85, that is not a mistype) I joined in the second year of the "new" DUMB. Previous to '77 DUMB was a scramble band, the forerunner of bands like UVA and Stanford. At that time, DUMB was about 100 strong, going down to about 85 (the first year was the year after the '78 season, and a strong interest in playing in the pep band. The last season was one season after two 10/11-17 seasons in a row.) I believe the band just before the the change to a "regular" marching band was bigger, thanks to tamborine players and the like (those that wanted to hang out with the band, and the "Gross Bus" on trips. Definitely a different time period.)

Two/three years ago, I believe I counted 56 band members. That's smaller than my high school band, and we were worse in football than Duke now (prepared me for these long seasons.) I think I counted about 80 at the first game of this season.

We never made a script Blue Devils, just the block DUKE. Looking at old formation sheets, if we ever had enough to spell out Blue Devils, we would have never had to form "Caro" "Lina" "Ugly" in three separate patterns (while playing the Carolina fight song in a minor key.) But the four letter words were "denser" than right now.

(Aside to Grossbus: I received a 1/4 course credit for marching band during my undergrad days. Has that changed?)


We did have film of old DUMB halftimes during the scramble period. The best was the full keg with the mug below. The keg is then "tapped" and then the "beer" drains into and overflows the mug. Pretty creative and required a lot more coordination and planning than usually expected with that type of band. (A later example was the UVA "precision drill".) MY guess is that those bands (from the '60s, I believe) might have had enough members to spell out, but never saw it on film. But knowing Al, if he says he saw it, I'd believe him.

[Tappan Zee Devil]

quoting DU82
"As a long time DUMBer (78-85, that is not a mistype) I joined in the second year of the "new" DUMB. Previous to '77 DUMB was a scramble band, the forerunner of bands like UVA and Stanford".

That is not true - I was in DUMB from '66 - '70. We were very disciplined and definitely not a "scramble band" such as I ran into when I came to graduate school at Columbia in 1970 (where I was once part of the marching 14 and then gave it up).
We were about 100 in those days and we did some sophisticated stuff. At Navy, we formed a sailing ship and started playing "Anchors Away". As the midshipmen cheeered, the sailing ship sunk into a wavy sea.

But we never did a script "Blue Devils".

I wish I had kept up playing the sax, so I could in good conscience join the alumi bands for games in NYC.

Jim

[DU82]

quoting DU82
"As a long time DUMBer (78-85, that is not a mistype) I joined in the second year of the "new" DUMB. Previous to '77 DUMB was a scramble band, the forerunner of bands like UVA and Stanford".

That is not true - I was in DUMB from '66 - '70. We were very disciplined and definitely not a "scramble band" such as I ran into when I came to graduate school at Columbia in 1970 (where I was once part of the marching 14 and then gave it up).
We were about 100 in those days and we did some sophisticated stuff. At Navy, we formed a sailing ship and started playing "Anchors Away". As the midshipmen cheeered, the sailing ship sunk into a wavy sea.

But we never did a script "Blue Devils".

I wish I had kept up playing the sax, so I could in good conscience join the alumi bands for games in NYC.

Jim


Sorry, perhaps the "Scramble" tag is not quite right (it's a Monday!) Making kegs and sinking ships on the field matches what I was trying to describe.

Non-traditional band uniforms perhaps? I remember many a comment about the "real" band uniforms that were bought the year before I joined, that the Iron Dukes wanted a traditional band rather than the non-conforming one. Same thing happened a couple of years ago to UVA, I believe. Their "Iron Duke" group ("Iron Hoos"?) forced the band to change from the student-run one that frequently embarrassed the administration to one that was more "normal". (Not to say that the Duke band embarrassed the university the same way the UVA band did TJ's. Jim Henry wouldn't have allowed it. He was mellow, but wouldn't allow things to get (too) out of hand.

[Atldukie79]

I also am a proud DUMB alum from the '75-'79 seasons. I recall vividly joining the plaid pants, white turtle neck and beanie cap band. I don't know if you would call what we did scramble or marching...I know we had fun, and vociferously supported the team. But, in a sort of mid 70's sort of way ...well, we didn't try very hard.

I also recall the visit we received from Tom Butters in the music building. He was the fairly new AD at the time and basically told us he wanted a band the school could be proud of. I don't think he was received very well. He wanted traditional uniforms which we wore my last year or 2. We had to tone it down. Sigh.

Anyway...now my son is in in DUMB ( DUMB and DUMBER...ha!) and I sense that they are having fun and are trying to put on a good show. If you haven't seen them, go to YOUTUBE.

However, I don't think the analogy to the demise of Duke football made earlier is apt. After all, the football program recruits players to come for that purpose. Unlike many D1 schools who have a larger student body or, in many cases, a music school loaded with music majors, the candidate pool is smaller.

In any case, enjoy the students who choose to sacrifice time to be in DUMB ...they do a great job. It is fair to wonder why more students don't participate.

[snowdenscold]

In any case, enjoy the students who choose to sacrifice time to be in DUMB ...they do a great job. It is fair to wonder why more students don't participate.

I can only speak from personal experience, and that's relation to the high school experience. One of my best friends and former roommate at Duke and I both came from pretty good high school programs (me in NoVa, him in Texas) and both tried DUMB our freshman year. The experiences didn't compare at all and we both quit after a year. I don't know if that's always the reason, but there seemed to always be a fairly high dropout rate from freshmen to sophomores.

Mix that with a low pool of potential marchers in the first place (not a huge music school) and I could see how you get low numbers. Besides, tenting has become such a mandatory campus experience now that many freshmen don't need (and don't want) to have to get in to bball thru DUMB - they'd rather tent with their friends cause it's the cool and expected thing to do. Of course, it was really nice for all those non-tenting games...

[bdh21]

In any case, enjoy the students who choose to sacrifice time to be in DUMB ...they do a great job. It is fair to wonder why more students don't participate.

DUMB '03-07

Speaking of SACRIFICE, 2 years ago (during the lacrosse brouhaha) Grossbus was abolished by the new director, presumably forevermore. Efforts to completely ignore the abolition have been half-hearted for a variety of reasons. It was interesting to note that even before Grossbus went away fewer and fewer people were actually enjoying the "Gross Punch"...

[grossbus]

"(Aside to Grossbus: I received a 1/4 course credit for marching band during my undergrad days. Has that changed?)"

in my day (61-65), no course credit at all.

however we could march and play extremely well. jim henry (yes, the same jim henry) made sure of that. it was a "tight" aggregation. we also did story-line shapes connected to the music for the halftime show. no formation marching, but no "scramble" either. i think the most notorious of the latter was the stanford band which was student run (not connected to the music or atheletic depts) and was dissolved about 18 months ago (in part due to on field urination).


it appears some of you understand my handle. :)

[3rd Dukie]

really! what was his name?

i was there 61-65. we never did a script blue devils. like i said, we were always around 80. in the pregame, we spelled out D-U-K-E a letter at a time.

His name was Tom Anderson. He played trombone. I forget if he was the DM for 2 or 3 years. He was in the class of '65.

Did you know him?

I do recall his saying that our high school band (Murphy High in Atlanta) was much bigger and better.
I know Tom was in the Pep Band, because he got me into the '63 UNC game, straw hat and all. Good memories.

[grossbus]

"His name was Tom Anderson."

i absolutely knew him. so did my wife, also class of 65. we both remember him as a great trombone player, good DM and a really nice guy. i am very sorry to hear he is no longer with us.

we started the straw hat pep bands our soph year (pretty much a direct copy of something we saw someone else do during the NCAA's...UCLA?). i went to the final four in louisville that year as part of the pep band. was on the floor in kansas city as a photog for that FF. they stuck the band up at the very top of that dreary place.

i did not march my sr. year as i broke my back in a motor bike accident over near hanes before the start of school. the allure of nursing students. something Dukies now cannot experience.

[3rd Dukie]

"His name was Tom Anderson."

i absolutely knew him. so did my wife, also class of 65. we both remember him as a great trombone player, good DM and a really nice guy. i am very sorry to hear he is no longer with us.

we started the straw hat pep bands our soph year (pretty much a direct copy of something we saw someone else do during the NCAA's...UCLA?). i went to the final four in louisville that year as part of the pep band. was on the floor in kansas city as a photog for that FF. they stuck the band up at the very top of that dreary place.



i did not march my sr. year as i broke my back in a motor bike accident over near hanes before the start of school. the allure of nursing students. something Dukies now cannot experience.

Holy Cow! Thank you for your kind words about Tommy. He has been gone 2 years now. A rabid Duke until the very end. Do you remember how long he was DM?
Was Walt Smith in the band when you were? He was Tommy's roommate for a while. A sax player, IIRC.
Sorry to hear about your misfortune on the motor bike.

I met either Dr. Bryan or Jim Henry at the '66 FF at Cole Fieldhouse. I think it was Bryan, but my memory is a tad foggy. Could the hats have come from some St. Louis influence? I don't know why, but I thought Tom had told me something like that.

I'll certainly never forget seeing Heyman score a career high vs. Billy Cunningham in '63. Seems as though Bouncing Billy was struggling with Geography (I think he may been almost academically ineligible) and the students had tons of signs to remind him of that shortcoming.

Thanks again for the memories.
I'll stop babbling now.

[grossbus]

yep, knew walt too. a character.

he was DM his senior year for sure. i can't remember if he was DM junior year or not.

[throatybeard]

"(Aside to Grossbus: I received a 1/4 course credit for marching band during my undergrad days. Has that changed?)"

in my day (61-65), no course credit at all.

You probably know my Mom then, she was W '63 and the librarian for the band and the wind symphony. Also played flute. She said the bus she went on when the team was on the road was called "the girl bus" b/c she was the only woman.

She just went to some sort of Paul Bryan-related union. I was disappointed to learn from PB that Dorothy Bone died with the last year, year and a half.

[grossbus]

what was your mom's name? i bet my wife and i both knew her. i was only in marching and pep bands, but my wife was in concert band and orchestra (as well as other musically-related stuff).

when we went on the road we took about six busses. for day trips (like to wake or state) there was a date bus. on overnights, there was indeed a girl bus.

the last bus in the train was, in fact, the gross bus. invitation only. i was honored to be captain of the gross bus my sophomore and junior years. a noteworthy accomplishment that may never have been duplicated.

we would start singing the limerick song upon leaving campus and see how many miles we could get under the bus before we ran out of verses. i am convinced that i know the two grossest limericks that there are and they come from this experience. for years, my party routine was to offer the worst one if someone could top the second worst one. no one did.

i don't get to go to many parties anymore.

[throatybeard]

what was your mom's name?

Barbara Binning, at that time. (Married name Torbert).

[Richard Berg]

DUMB membership peaked at around 120 my freshman year (1999). I don't think even that many would be enough to spell "Blue Devils" -- we spelled out "DUKE" with not many to spare.

[3rd Dukie]

Mr. GrossBus:

Perhaps you can answer a question for me. My mother has been trying to find out if the Duke Ambassadors are still in existence. I had another brother, Farris, '60, who also played in that band, as did Tommy. Farris was the second T-Bone in the Beelzebub's Big Band (I think I got that right) album. The introduction was by Les Brown, whose son, if I am not mistaken, was in the Ambassadors that year (drums I seem to recall).

My mother would love to know if they are still in existence.

Thank you for your help.

BTW, I may very well be wrong, but I have thought for all of these years that Tommy was DM his Freshman and sophomore years.
Walt Smith is living in Portland, OR, and is either a dentist or an orthopedic surgeon. [/I]

[Highlander]

DUMB '03-07

Speaking of SACRIFICE, 2 years ago (during the lacrosse brouhaha) Grossbus was abolished by the new director, presumably forevermore. Efforts to completely ignore the abolition have been half-hearted for a variety of reasons. It was interesting to note that even before Grossbus went away fewer and fewer people were actually enjoying the "Gross Punch"...

I heard it was abolished towards the end of the old director's tenure. Something about an excited freshman calling home to tell his mom what a bunch of drunks the band was, only to have her call the AD and put the kaibosh on the whole thing. Needless to say, said freshman was not a very popular person among alumni circles.

Speaking of Grossbus, the trip to Navy had to be the greatest gross bus of my 4 years at Duke. The band did reverse pushups and the Devils rolled over the midshipmen to go to 6-0 on the season. The trip back to Durham was filled with gross punch, singing many inappropriate songs which I can't share here, and a short nap. Shortly therafter, the team was featured in Sports Illustrated. I believe it was a picture of Zaid Abdul-Aleem attempting to twist the head of the Navy QB off, with a caption that read "Turning Heads."

Great. Now I have "the Halls of Dear old Duke" in my head...

[bdh21]

I heard it was abolished towards the end of the old director's tenure. Something about an excited freshman calling home to tell his mom what a bunch of drunks the band was, only to have her call the AD and put the kaibosh on the whole thing. Needless to say, said freshman was not a very popular person among alumni circles.



In the fall of 2004 DUMB had so few members that we could all fit on one bus going to and from away games. When the Study bus and Gross bus necessarily combined, the Study bus won out and there was no punch...


Speaking of Grossbus, the trip to Navy had to be the greatest gross bus of my 4 years at Duke. The band did reverse pushups and the Devils rolled over the midshipmen to go to 6-0 on the season. The trip back to Durham was filled with gross punch, singing many inappropriate songs which I can't share here, and a short nap. Shortly therafter, the team was featured in Sports Illustrated. I believe it was a picture of Zaid Abdul-Aleem attempting to twist the head of the Navy QB off, with a caption that read "Turning Heads."

Great. Now I have "the Halls of Dear old Duke" in my head...



My eyes are dim
I cannot see
I have (hey!) not (ho!)
brought my specs with me

[grossbus]

throaty, my wife remembers the name. i can't say that i do.

3rd dukie, i do not know if the ambassadors are still stylin' or not. somebody on or close to campus might be able to answer that question. i love that big band sound! not only did my wife sing with them, my dad played drums for them when he was at Duke.

bill morgan was DM fall of 61 and don farrell was in fall of 62. i can't remember for sure who was in fall of 63, but it might have been jack abbott, but tom was certainly DM in fall of 64.


these six degrees of separation incidents are getting thick. walt is in portland? i grew up in the portland area.

[dumbvp08]

I just wanted to say that it is great to see what kind of memories DUMB has created over the years. After reading the featherson article, I was dismayed by what he had to say. Thank you for sticking up for DUMB. Yes, we have been small but we are up to 95 members and will grow even larger next year. We are traveling to Notre Dame within the next two weeks and your continued support is one reason why.

As a current VP I ask all of you to continue to support us and feel free to contact me as necessary. I had the honor of meeting Paul Bryan at homecoming and loved the older stories. In fact afterwards I went to the Duke Archives where there is a box of DUMB stuff from the seventies. I found the DUMB Hymnal and have been sharing it with the band since. Parts will be sung loudly and off key on the way to ND.

I have alerted the current director to these postings, and he is following them. He would reply but we have a lot to do before Saturday. He thanks you for the support as well.

Finally in response to current things in the band. Currently course credit stands at .5 for the fall semester. Socially we are stronger than ever. I encourage you to come see us at our last two marching shows (GT and at ND) and I hope to see more DUMB posts!

[snowdenscold]

I had the honor of meeting Paul Bryan at homecoming and loved the older stories.


Paul Bryan is quite a man to meet (does he still play his euphonium every once in awhile?). Of course, my experience with him comes through Wind Symphony and not DUMB. I still can't believe (according to the story I was told) that Percy Grainger actually visited Duke while Paul Bryan was DUWS director.

(For those who are unfamiliar, Grainger is one of the more famous composers of concert band music and was born in 1882)

[Atldukie79]

Any thread that mentions Paul Bryan (PB),DUMB, Wind Symphony (WS) and Duke sports has to grab my attention! I attended dear old Durham High with PB's kids back in the '70s and got to know him as a guest conductor. During my senior year ( I had been accepted to Duke) he asked me to accompany the Wind Symphony to Vienna for a semester for what would be my first semester in college. Hence my first college course was taken at the Vienna International Music Center at age 17.

After 4 years of DUMB, WS, and a lifetime of Duke sports, I am the parent of a Duke DUMBer. (Thanks for reintroducing the DUMB Hymnal...that will introduce a new line of father/son conversation).

Last I heard, PB played his euphonium , and his sagbutt(don't ask).

In the small world category, my son was sitting in a music theory class last spring when he struck up a conversation with a female classmate. Turns out it was PB's granddughter! Small world.

Ah, fond memories.

[3rd Dukie]

Any thread that mentions Paul Bryan (PB),DUMB, Wind Symphony (WS) and Duke sports has to grab my attention! I attended dear old Durham High with PB's kids back in the '70s and got to know him as a guest conductor. During my senior year ( I had been accepted to Duke) he asked me to accompany the Wind Symphony to Vienna for a semester for what would be my first semester in college. Hence my first college course was taken at the Vienna International Music Center at age 17.

After 4 years of DUMB, WS, and a lifetime of Duke sports, I am the parent of a Duke DUMBer. (Thanks for reintroducing the DUMB Hymnal...that will introduce a new line of father/son conversation).

Last I heard, PB played his euphonium , and his sagbutt(don't ask).

In the small world category, my son was sitting in a music theory class last spring when he struck up a conversation with a female classmate. Turns out it was PB's granddughter! Small world.

Ah, fond memories.

That is a great story, ATL, my 2 brothers and I all grew up in the Eastlake section of ATL and all 3 played the modern day version of the sagbutt (don't ask).

Grossbus: Thanks again for the info. Another family myth set straight. Was Dorothy Bone Alan Bone's widow?. My brother was asking.

BTW: In case any of you might remember, Farris was in that infamous Pall Mall commercial in the late 50's (?) that showed a band marching through a tobacco field. Gunsmoke used to use that commercial a lot. What a claim to fame!

[throatybeard]

Was Dorothy Bone Alan Bone's widow?. My brother was asking.

Yeah.

Let me see if I can find the WS reunion picture my dad took.

edited:

after I get back to StL

[grossbus]

3rd dukie

according to this duke magazine article, the ambassasors folded in 64. also according to the article, les brown led a different band.

http://www.dukemagazine.duke.edu/dukemag/issues/030404/signature-swing1.html

[grossbus]

dumbvp08,

95 ain't shabby. 95 good musicians in a well-balanced band can produce a nice sound.

keep up the good work!

[3rd Dukie]

3rd dukie

according to this duke magazine article, the ambassasors folded in 64. also according to the article, les brown led a different band.

http://www.dukemagazine.duke.edu/dukemag/issues/030404/signature-swing1.html

Gross:

That is too cool! Thanks a million. Many family members will get a real kick out of this article.

The Brown I was referring to was Les Brown's son, not Les himself. We all remember his Band of Renown. I think Les Brown's son was in the group that made the record I referred to earlier.

The other confusing thing to me is that I know Tommy played in some big band (I always thought it was the Ambassadors) his senior year, 1965. Man, you are clearing up all kinds of good stuff for us.

I have not verified this yet, but I am pretty sure I recall Farris being a part of the Panama trip. I'll check with him.

Thanks so much. You have no idea how much this will to our mother. She has had a very tough time the past 2 years since Tommy died. This is so great.

[grossbus]

i am pretty sure tommy was in the abassadors all four years. for some reason, they are in the chanticleer (yearbook) only in 62 and 63. if you want, i could scan my yearbook photos and email them to you.

[3rd Dukie]

i am pretty sure tommy was in the abassadors all four years. for some reason, they are in the chanticleer (yearbook) only in 62 and 63. if you want, i could scan my yearbook photos and email them to you.

That is really kind of you, but a family member recently located Tommy's Chanticleer. I have not seen it yet, as it is in ATL and I am in San Fran.

Great offer!

So, when the article said the Ambassadors folded in '64, I assume they mean the Fall. I thought they were referring to the school year. I was pretty sure he played all 4 years.

[3rd Dukie]

Gross: I just spoke to my brother about the demise of the Ambassadors. He confirmed it was in the Fall of '64.

The Panama trip to which the article referred was in the summer of '58. Farris went on that trip. As a matter of fact, as he reminded me, he brought back a little wicker basket with a baby boa constrictor. It lived about a week. We couldn't find enough dead flies to feed it. The trip was sponsored by the State Dept.

I had completely forgotten about that.

[mehmattski]

Just thought I'd revive this thread about the DUMB, and post a link to the routine the band did at the Notre Dame game:

http://video.nbcsports.com/player/?id=185381

I thought they did a fine job!

WARNING: Watching that video may cause you to have The Killers' "Somebody Told Me" stuck in your head for the rest of the day.

[grossbus]

great! thanks.


reminds me of the time at wake in 64 when their band broke into a dance causing great uproar in the student section...dancing was banned at that time at that good old baptist institution.

thanks again.

[PomPomGirl]

Nice job at ND - reminds me of the Thriller set we did my freshman year (96) with the dancing woodwind section.

I am sorry to hear about the demise of the Gross Bus. Hopefully that fine tradition can be re-instituted.