The neverending saga of the CHeaters

[UrinalCake]

I wonder if this will amount to anything. Five years ago, Tydreke Powell called into a local radio show and explained that the entire football team was instructed to intentionally fail a screen for learning disabilities so they could be diagnosed with ADHD and therefore given adderall and also afforded extra time to take tests and given tutors. He went on to explain that the entire AFAM scam was created for basketball players, and that everyone on the football team knew it, as did Roy.

9825

[arnie]

I wonder if this will amount to anything. Five years ago, Tydreke Powell called into a local radio show and explained that the entire football team was instructed to intentionally fail a screen for learning disabilities so they could be diagnosed with ADHD and therefore given adderall and also afforded extra time to take tests and given tutors. He went on to explain that the entire AFAM scam was created for basketball players, and that everyone on the football team knew it, as did Roy.

9825

Even if the Athletic concludes Roy was personally involved in developing, implementing and covering up the scam, Swofford and NCAA look the other way.

[left_hook_lacey]

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but this is prevalent throughout education today. My wife is a teacher at a military leadership School, and they have to constantly deal with over-entitled parents who constantly try to get their kids on a "list" for ADHD, autism, etc., because it gets them extra benefits, and special provisions. It's out of control.

[Duke79UNLV77]

#typo

[roywhite]

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but this is prevalent throughout education today. My wife is a teacher at a military leadership School, and they have to constantly deal with over-entitled parents who constantly try to get their kids on a "list" for ADHD, autism, etc., because it gets them extra benefits, and special provisions. It's out of control.

That does sound like a problem. But is it relevant in the context of major college athletics and what UNC is alleged to have done? Does it excuse the Cheats cheating?

[devildeac]

That does sound like a problem. But is it relevant in the context of major college athletics and what UNC is alleged to have done? Does it excuse the Cheats cheating?

C'mon, roy, you know by now that *anything* excuses the cheats cheating :mad:.

[devildeac]

This ish will never stick as somewhere on the "u"nc campus, there will be at least one other student who took/takes this drug, therefore proving it's available to the student body, meaning, no case. :mad:

9F 'em.

[DU82]

That does sound like a problem. But is it relevant in the context of major college athletics and what UNC is alleged to have done? Does it excuse the Cheats cheating?

It is my understanding that the prescribed drugs are considered performance enhancers and otherwise those taking them would be banned/suspended.

I note from the tweet that the article is in FRONT of the paywall, so they want a big audience.

[JimBD]

Proposed new UNC mascot--the cheetah:

Cheetahs, cheetahs, you know what you did.

Cheetahs, cheetahs, you know what you are.

Cheetahs

[moonpie23]

just stop......they have better lawyers....nothing will happen to them.....it's useless...

[bedeviled]

That does sound like a problem. But is it relevant in the context of major college athletics and what UNC is alleged to have done? Does it excuse the Cheats cheating?It is not related to what UNC did. I rambled on about some of UNC's faulty actions (https://forums.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showthread.php?37611-unc-Athletics-Scandal-always-fun-to-check-out-the-public-record-reqs&p=875346#post875346) that were evidenced in the data dumps of yore (disregarding DSM-IV diagnostic criteria attested to by UNC, disregarding patient report, using the wrong clinical tools in evaluation, grossly misinterpreting collected data, wrong people doing the clinical decision-making, etc). Their ADHD assessments were fraught with substantial errors. However, I continue to believe that they were mistakes rather than intentional deceit. After all, they had wanted to publish the findings for all to see, in hopes of "helping" athletes across the US. Looks like we'll all get to see more now, I guess.

[PackMan97]

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but this is prevalent throughout education today. My wife is a teacher at a military leadership School, and they have to constantly deal with over-entitled parents who constantly try to get their kids on a "list" for ADHD, autism, etc., because it gets them extra benefits, and special provisions. It's out of control.

I have a kid that is most likely on the spectrum, and we fight hard not to get him labeled with something. It's out of control how much places want to label him so they'll get extra $$$ and resources.

[-jk]

I have a kid that is most likely on the spectrum, and we fight hard not to get him labeled with something. It's out of control how much places want to label him so they'll get extra $$$ and resources.

Please do be thoughtful about it. He may actually need extra resources, and those get $$$ really fast...

-jk

[left_hook_lacey]

Please do be thoughtful about it. He may actually need extra resources, and those get $$$ really fast...

-jk

I agree, and that's what makes it so maddingly frustrating for my wife. She has come home in tears before because she has so many "EC" students in her class that get extra attention, extra test time etc., that she feels like the ones that really need it aren't getting the attention they need.

The parents are learning which Dr's have a high probability of giving your kid a label and are flocking to them and demanding their kid be labeled with something.

One of our daughter's best friends lives in our neighborhood. They have been in the same grade, played sports together, the whole nine since they were five years old. They are both straight A students, active in the community, and outgoing, sociable kids.

The girls mom has since learned about the extra benefits(especially being a military family) that she can receive for having a child that is considered "EC" whether it is autism, ADD, whatever. That woman has fought tooth and nail and now all 3 of her kids are "EC" labeled.

[DU82]

It’s past 6AM EDT, and nothing on the web page.

[-jk]

It’s past 6AM EDT, and nothing on the web page.

Anyone seen where Manalishi got to?

-jk

[-jk]

Here you go:

https://theathletic.com/1261858/2019/10/08/failure-to-disclose-the-mysterious-absence-of-critical-data-from-uncs-renowned-concussion-research/

-jk

[DU82]

Anyone seen where Manalishi got to?

-jk

Update at 8AM. There is an article on their app. (haven’t read it yet.). Headline is about data missing from their “reknown” concussion study.

[SouthernDukie]

Cheaters gonna cheat. It’s what they do because it’s who they are.

[UrinalCake]

I haven’t read it yet either, but it’s an article with three accompanying videos, each about 10 min. long. My guess is that The Athletic is trying to branch out past written articles and into videos and this free series is a way to give new subscribers a sample.

[-jk]

Here you go:

https://theathletic.com/1261858/2019/10/08/failure-to-disclose-the-mysterious-absence-of-critical-data-from-uncs-renowned-concussion-research/

-jk

In an article otherwise about tainted concussion studies, this bit stood out:



A paper co-authored by the NCAA’s chief medical officer, Brian Hainline, and published this year says “the prevalence of ADHD in student-athletes and elite athletes may be 7 percent – 8 percent.”

Based on the UNC documents, generally only scholarship athletes were eligible for learning disability testing. And an internal review found that among about 180 UNC athletes tested between 2004 and 2012 – including 137 scholarship football players – there was a “39 percent incidence of LD and or ADHD.”

“If that’s an accurate number, that (does) seem high to me,” says Hainline, a neurologist. “‘Cause it’s unusual for ADHD or LD to somehow just manifest in college. It almost always has manifest already in high school, very often in grade school. It’s unusual just for it to start in college.”

But that’s exactly what Ted Tatos found was happening at UNC. An overwhelming majority of the athletes tested between 2004 and 2012 were diagnosed with ADD, LD or ADHD for the first time at Chapel Hill.

Vive le "Carolina Way"!

-jk

[UrinalCake]

Our old friend, the whistleblower herself is also quoted in the article


Mary Willingham was a learning specialist inside the athletic department between 2003 and 2010, working with the neuropsychologists responsible for LD or ADHD testing at UNC. She says there was pressure from coaches to keep players academically eligible to compete, and that diagnosing football players with a learning disability or ADHD was helpful in those efforts.

Furthermore,

According to the UNC documents Tatos reviewed, a diagnosis of ADHD often came with special accommodations, including personal note-takers, untimed tests and prescriptions for stimulant medications such as Adderall or Ritalin, which are otherwise banned by the NCAA as performance-enhancing drugs.

[PackMan97]

Nothing is going to come from it, but it does my heart good to see more of their cheating ways laid bare.

9f forever.

[AGDukesky]

Just as another anecdotal story of personal experience, both of my children have been diagnosed with ADHD and I found the schools less than anxious to give special provisions. We had to get an actual doctor in the field to make the diagnosis, have several teachers complete the Vanderbilt assessments, and have our children observed in class after the diagnosis for appropriate special accommodations. We do give them medication, but to date, other than the teachers being aware and more proactive about communicating with us, have not received any special treatment. Oh and my son was diagnosed in 3rd grade, daughter in 9th.

[devildeac]

Fecklessness will be perpetuated.

9F 'em.

[UrinalCake]

Nothing is going to come from it, but it does my heart good to see more of their cheating ways laid bare.

Nothing will happen to the athletes, that’s for sure. If anything, the women’s basketball team will have to pay a fine. But the implications on concussion research seems significant.

[SouthernDukie]

The information revealed by the Athletic is no surprise. After all, the ceiling is the roof.

[left_hook_lacey]

That does sound like a problem. But is it relevant in the context of major college athletics and what UNC is alleged to have done? Does it excuse the Cheats cheating?

No absolutely not it doesn't excuse it, I'm just pointing out that these kids are being raised in a world where it's completely acceptable to pretend like you have a very real condition to "get stuff".

I guess I'm filing it under, "everybody is doing it and it doesn't surprise me". Add it to UNC's VERY long list of similar items.

[BLPOG]

No absolutely not it doesn't excuse it, I'm just pointing out that these kids are being raised in a world where it's completely acceptable to pretend like you have a very real condition to "get stuff".

I guess I'm filing it under, "everybody is doing it and it doesn't surprise me". Add it to UNC's VERY long list of similar items.

The two important distinctions here being that (1) UNC's numbers are so far out of the ordinary that they can only be the result of fraudulent diagnoses, rather than just gaming the system and (2) in UNC's case it could have a major impact on medical research because of the concussion studies and that's a serious problem.

I read through parts of the document dump related to the ADD/ADHD/LD testing a few years back and it was just astounding what they were doing.

[Owen Meany]

This is something I posted years back on this board.

The learning disabilities angle is something that has always bothered me due to something I learned a few years ago from a family friend. I briefly mentioned this in a past post (I believe on TDD) well over a year ago (maybe two) before there was any mention of the abuse of the LD designation, but I am unable to find posts from that far back.

The family is, understandably, a very pro-UNC family - parent is a UNC grad, child a UNC grad (and very good student who, deservedly, received a full ride to UNC). Naturally, they are also fans of the sports teams. The younger child was being recruited by UNC for football, and independently as a student (and, at the time, in consideration for same scholarship as sibling). The parent was supportive of UNC the university, but wanted no part of the football team due to what they knew from their older child. Eventually it was agreed that the child could visit with the football team and see how things went.

The son visited. On the visit, the son was shown around by a football player. The player (not a coach) bragged that if he (the son, an excellent student) came to UNC he would "not have to do anything". He explained the many things you did not have to do (talk about classes, tutors, etc) and added (paraphrasing) - "They will say you have a learning disorder and then you don't even have to take tests. They can't give you timed tests, so you get to take the test home and someone will take the test for you." He went on to explain that the players are given prescriptions that they turn around and sell for extra money.

The LD aspect bothered me a great deal because it involved a doctor (I assumed at that time, perhaps incorrectly) abusing his or her position. Also, at the time I was unaware that an AD/HD drug (adderol specifically) would be something that a non-AD/HD person would want. I looked it up and found that it was, in fact, commonly used on college campuses. So you have meds being prescribed that aren't needed, which are then being sold to to other students.

Again, this involved a player, not a coach, telling this to a recruit. But the player spoke openly and it was clear that this was part of the UNC experience. And the fact that this was being told to an excellent student was ridiculous. So I have no doubt that UNC has, in the past, incorrectly labelled students as having a learning disorder.

Because of this, the LD angle has been on my radar long before it became of public interest. At some point in the past, I noticed that UNC or one of its defenders gave some information and specifically qualified their statement by adding "when you remove LD students" (paraphrasing). I do not remember specifically what the comment was, but I believe it may have been when Willingham's study was being debated. The exclusion of LD students from their comment/statistics didn't raise any public questions at that time. But I believed then, as I do now, that UNC used the LD designation to hide damaging information (ex. the number of players reading below high school level, etc).

Someone either within or outside of the university needs to look closely at the system UNC has in place to identify athletes with LDs. I believe they are absolutely abusing the system in a most cynical way.

[Fred G. Unn]

I wonder if this will amount to anything. Five years ago, Tydreke Powell called into a local radio show and explained that the entire football team was instructed to intentionally fail a screen for learning disabilities so they could be diagnosed with ADHD and therefore given adderall and also afforded extra time to take tests and given tutors. He went on to explain that the entire AFAM scam was created for basketball players, and that everyone on the football team knew it, as did Roy.


Did anyone save the audio or a transcript of the Tydreke Powell interview with 102 JAMZ? I just tried to find it online but it apparently has been taken down. Lots of stories referencing it, but all the links seem broken. I remember at the time being shocked that story line didn't get more attention. Wasn't there something about the players taking it at a facility in Durham rather than a UNC facility too?

[PackMan97]

Did anyone save the audio or a transcript of the Tydreke Powell interview with 102 JAMZ? I just tried to find it online but it apparently has been taken down. Lots of stories referencing it, but all the links seem broken. I remember at the time being shocked that story line didn't get more attention. Wasn't there something about the players taking it at a facility in Durham rather than a UNC facility too?

https://www.si.com/college-football/2014/11/10/former-unc-football-player-paper-classes-scandal

[BLPOG]

Did anyone save the audio or a transcript of the Tydreke Powell interview with 102 JAMZ? I just tried to find it online but it apparently has been taken down. Lots of stories referencing it, but all the links seem broken. I remember at the time being shocked that story line didn't get more attention. Wasn't there something about the players taking it at a facility in Durham rather than a UNC facility too?

The choice of facility was a majorly suspicious point. There are a string of UNC emails relating to the woman in charge that make it pretty clear they had a special arrangement. I remember one in particular in which someone insists they continue using that particular person to conduct the testing. Might be able to dig it up later.

The circumstances under which they finally terminated the relationship were also suspicious, because (IIRC) it happened abruptly and could be linked to the investigation but UNC acted like it was nothing of note, which strongly implies they were covering their tracks.

[Fred G. Unn]

https://www.si.com/college-football/2014/11/10/former-unc-football-player-paper-classes-scandal
Audio is a dead link though ...

[Fred G. Unn]

The choice of facility was a majorly suspicious point. There are a string of UNC emails relating to the woman in charge that make it pretty clear they had a special arrangement. I remember one in particular in which someone insists they continue using that particular person to conduct the testing.

Oh yeah, Lyn Johnson. And she was doing the testing "off-label" too, using a test not designed to diagnose ADHD.

http://nebula.wsimg.com/5a624b871c26502c21f959120c0686b4?AccessKeyId=40AF2 3583104573B1C6C&disposition=0&alloworigin=1

[Bob Green]

The girls mom has since learned about the extra benefits(especially being a military family) that she can receive for having a child that is considered "EC" whether it is autism, ADD, whatever. That woman has fought tooth and nail and now all 3 of her kids are "EC" labeled.

I struggle to identify in my mind what extra benefits would be made available to a "military family" that are not available to a non-military family.

As a veteran who spent 30 years on active duty in the U.S. Navy who continues to be a Department of Defense employee (42+ years Total Active Federal Service) I do not believe military families receive any extra benefits by having a child designated as EC.

Could you elaborate?

[DukeFanSince1990]

NeverEnding

9832

[UrinalCake]

The Tydreke audio clip was taken down years ago. I have no doubt that UNC played a role in this. And that woman who ran the testing center in Durham was the girlfriend of Fats Thomas. Remember him?

[BLPOG]

The Tydreke audio clip was taken down years ago. I have no doubt that UNC played a role in this. And that woman who ran the testing center in Durham was the girlfriend of Fats Thomas. Remember him?

No, that's incorrect. That woman had some questionable involvement but so far as actual evidence is concerned it was pretty tangential. It just got a lot of discussion as Duke as NCSU folks tried to connect the dots between the many unethical goings-on at uNC.

The bulk of the evidence in the document dump related to testing involved Lyn Johnson, as another poster mentioned earlier. As I recall, her name was usually redacted, but the censors screwed up and left it in a couple times. She's the one who administered the tests referred to in the email exchanges a few posts back.

[rsvman]

This whole thing is just outrageo........wait, what we were talking about?



On a more serious note, I'll share this little anecdote from when I was a teenager and my father was a professor at BYU. He was teaching upper level Phys Ed classes. At one point, he had one of the BYU quarterbacks in his class. He failed the class. The next semester, he failed it again.

Thereafter, my father got a call from the Athletic Director, who asked, "When are you going to pass name redacted?" To which my father replied, "When he does passing work," and hung up the phone.

#Not.the.Carolina.Way.

[CameronBlue]

This whole thing is just outrageo...wait, what we were talking about?



On a more serious note, I'll share this little anecdote from when I was a teenager and my father was a professor at BYU. He was teaching upper level Phys Ed classes. At one point, he had one of the BYU quarterbacks in his class. He failed the class. The next semester, he failed it again.

Thereafter, my father got a call from the Athletic Director, who asked, "When are you going to pass name redacted?" To which my father replied, "When he does passing work," and hung up the phone.

#Not.the.Carolina.Way.

Well depending upon when you were a teenager, things may have changed even at BYU. Though I applaud your Dad's decision. The AD should have been fired. Hopefully none of the QB's moms got involved.

[Acymetric]

The Tydreke audio clip was taken down years ago. I have no doubt that UNC played a role in this. And that woman who ran the testing center in Durham was the girlfriend of Fats Thomas. Remember him?

Someone go over to PackPride... I guarantee one of those guys has it saved somewhere.

[left_hook_lacey]

I struggle to identify in my mind what extra benefits would be made available to a "military family" that are not available to a non-military family.

As a veteran who spent 30 years on active duty in the U.S. Navy who continues to be a Department of Defense employee (42+ years Total Active Federal Service) I do not believe military families receive any extra benefits by having a child designated as EC.

Could you elaborate?

For the military, it's not really monetary benefits, but it gives them more flexability into where they go for their next orders, etc. If they can get their kid classified as "EFMP" exceptional family member program, they have more control over where they get stationed and when. If you have 2 or 3 kids with that designation, you have even more control over your orders.

I'm obviously not in the military and I'm going off what my wife and her coworkers(many of which are military wives) have told me. This is also an air force town, so I don't know if its different for different branches. Wouldn't think it would be.

[-jk]

The Tydreke audio clip was taken down years ago. I have no doubt that UNC played a role in this. And that woman who ran the testing center in Durham was the girlfriend of Fats Thomas. Remember him?

C'mon, folks: the Wayback Machine is your friend (https://web.archive.org/web/20160422000924/http://media.102jamz.com/a/99022771/3live-crew-interviews-tydreke-powell-of-unc.htm). (And folks with skillz, please download and save it for future consideration, 'cause unc will get it removed from there, too!)

-jk

[Bob Green]

For the military, it's not really monetary benefits, but it gives them more flexability into where they go for their next orders, etc. If they can get their kid classified as "EFMP" exceptional family member program, they have more control over where they get stationed and when. If you have 2 or 3 kids with that designation, you have even more control over your orders.

I am very familiar with EFMP but there is no way I would classify it as a benefit and for the Navy it does not give a service member more flexibility when it comes to orders. In fact, it is the opposite, it locks service members into major fleet concentration areas (Norfolk, San Diego, Bremerton) with large hospitals capable of providing requisite medical care. EFMP designation pretty much disqualifies a service member for overseas duty which could indirectly impact upward mobility.

I don't intend for my next comment to be rude but I do intend for it to be pointed -- IMO, you don't know what you're talking about.

[sagegrouse]

I don't intend for my next comment to be rude but I do intend for it to be pointed -- IMO, you don't know what you're talking about.

The Pacific fleet just fired a broadside.

[Nick]

Cleveland State right now:
9835

[Fred G. Unn]

C'mon, folks: the Wayback Machine is your friend (https://web.archive.org/web/20160422000924/http://media.102jamz.com/a/99022771/3live-crew-interviews-tydreke-powell-of-unc.htm).
Great!!! Recording it for posterity now.

[gep]

I am very familiar with EFMP but there is no way I would classify it as a benefit and for the Navy it does not give a service member more flexibility when it comes to orders. In fact, it is the opposite, it locks service members into major fleet concentration areas (Norfolk, San Diego, Bremerton) with large hospitals capable of providing requisite medical care. EFMP designation pretty much disqualifies a service member for overseas duty which could indirectly impact upward mobility.

I don't intend for my next comment to be rude but I do intend for it to be pointed -- IMO, you don't know what you're talking about.

I have mostly silently followed the DBR board for many, many years. And have ALWAYS valued Bob's comments. He appears to be as committed to Duke sports as much as he is to the USA and its military. THANKS, Bob...

[left_hook_lacey]

I am very familiar with EFMP but there is no way I would classify it as a benefit and for the Navy it does not give a service member more flexibility when it comes to orders. In fact, it is the opposite, it locks service members into major fleet concentration areas (Norfolk, San Diego, Bremerton) with large hospitals capable of providing requisite medical care. EFMP designation pretty much disqualifies a service member for overseas duty which could indirectly impact upward mobility.

I don't intend for my next comment to be rude but I do intend for it to be pointed -- IMO, you don't know what you're talking about.

Again, I'm only repeating what these military wives have told me and/or my wife. I literally texted one of these women before I responded to your post to make sure I was understanding what they were telling me before posting. My post was almost word for word from her mouth and it repeats what several others at the school are doing.

Right wrong or indifferent, that's what more than one family has told me.

Maybe they aren't getting the benefits they think they are, but they are definitely pushing for that classification because they think it helps them.

I'm just taking these families/teachers at their word that they consider it a benefit and as a result, seek it out.

Edit: Moving on, to keep the thread on topic. Thank you for your service Bob, not trying to argue, you obviously know more about military life than I do.

[DukeFanSince1990]

C'mon, folks: the Wayback Machine is your friend (https://web.archive.org/web/20160422000924/http://media.102jamz.com/a/99022771/3live-crew-interviews-tydreke-powell-of-unc.htm). (And folks with skillz, please download and save it for future consideration, 'cause unc will get it removed from there, too!)

-jk

Unbelievable, I have never listened to it before but WOW. That's pretty damning.

Its almost as bad as listening to Tyler Hanstravel reading "Chicken Little" while knowing he has a communication degree.

[AGDukesky]

Unbelievable, I have never listened to it before but WOW. That's pretty damning.

Its almost as bad as listening to Tyler Hanstravel reading "Chicken Little" while knowing he has a communication degree.

How do you say “a corn” in Swahili?

[devildeac]

9838

Move along-still nothing to hear/see/speak of here.

:mad:

[BoiseDevil]

Handing out ADHD diagnosis, pills and no show classes amounts to exploitation of real human beings. Even if the athletes don’t use the meds they don’t need, isn’t the university an accomplice if they are given/sold to other students.

Forget about sports and money and cheating; this amounts to evil. Taking advantage of less fortunate people who you are manipulating for your own personal gain. That is sad human behavior.

I want to believe the concussion research had lofty ambitions and good intentions. Maybe it started out that way but it appears ego took the controls.

I’m not convinced UNC is a bad university, but I am becoming convinced that any intersection with UNC athletics ends badly.

[Acymetric]

Handing out ADHD diagnosis, pills and no show classes amounts to exploitation of real human beings. Even if the athletes don’t use the meds they don’t need, isn’t the university an accomplice if they are given/sold to other students.

Forget about sports and money and cheating; this amounts to evil. Taking advantage of less fortunate people who you are manipulating for your own personal gain. That is sad human behavior.

I want to believe the concussion research had lofty ambitions and good intentions. Maybe it started out that way but it appears ego took the controls.

I’m not convinced UNC is a bad university, but I am becoming convinced that any intersection with UNC athletics ends badly.

UNC has had some fairly notable issues wholly unrelated to athletics as well. They aren't the only ones, but I don't think it is unreasonable to suggest that as an institution they need a bit of cultural cleanup to solve some problems with integrity.

[sagegrouse]

Let's not forget that Jan Boxill at the center of the fake class scandal was head of the Parr Center for Ethics.

[uh_no]

Let's not forget that Jan Boxill at the center of the fake class scandal was head of the Parr Center for Ethics.

and that valerie ashby, the current dean of trinity, was among the group of faculty who exhorted the media to sweep the whole thing under the rug instead of demanding the administration stop stonewalling.

[DukeFanSince1990]

How do you say “a corn” in Swahili?

Ask your local libarian.

[PackMan97]

Handing out ADHD diagnosis, pills and no show classes amounts to exploitation of real human beings. Even if the athletes don’t use the meds they don’t need, isn’t the university an accomplice if they are given/sold to other students.

Forget about sports and money and cheating; this amounts to evil. Taking advantage of less fortunate people who you are manipulating for your own personal gain. That is sad human behavior.

I want to believe the concussion research had lofty ambitions and good intentions. Maybe it started out that way but it appears ego took the controls.

I’m not convinced UNC is a bad university, but I am becoming convinced that any intersection with UNC athletics ends badly.

Let's not ignore they problems they've had with Title IX rape investigations. https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2018/06/27/unc-found-have-violated-title-ix-multiyear-investigation

Or that their hospital had to shut down many pediatric cardio surgeries AFTER someone blew the whistle.
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/06/17/us/heart-surgery-children-unc.html

The actions are in response to a New York Times investigation last month into the medical institution, where cardiologists, department leaders and even the former head of the children’s hospital expressed concerns about patients faring poorly after heart surgery there. Secret audio recordings provided to The Times captured doctors talking openly, some even saying they might not feel comfortable allowing their own children to have surgery at the hospital.

Then of course we have their football stadium named after a key figure in the Wilmington Massacre. We have the UNC BOT and Ram's Club Chair swapping seats and lots of other shady University things in general.

The more I learn about UNC the more I think it is a bad University where the good people stay quite because they need a job.

[devildeac]

Let's not ignore they problems they've had with Title IX rape investigations. https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2018/06/27/unc-found-have-violated-title-ix-multiyear-investigation

Or that their hospital had to shut down many pediatric cardio surgeries AFTER someone blew the whistle.
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/06/17/us/heart-surgery-children-unc.html


Then of course we have their football stadium named after a key figure in the Wilmington Massacre. We have the UNC BOT and Ram's Club Chair swapping seats and lots of other shady University things in general.

The more I learn about UNC the more I think it is a bad University where the good people stay quite because they need a job.

Tsk, tsk. I'm disappointed you overlooked this gem with their entire hospital system on probation, tying right in with the pediatric cardiac surgical disaster:

https://www.beckershospitalreview.com/quality/unc-hospitals-placed-on-probation-by-joint-commission.html

[UrinalCake]

They also recently named their soccer field after coaching legend Anson Dorrance, who has been accused of sexual misconduct by multiple players. The list goes on and on...

[PackMan97]

Tsk, tsk. I'm disappointed you overlooked this gem with their entire hospital system on probation, tying right in with the pediatric cardiac surgical disaster:

https://www.beckershospitalreview.com/quality/unc-hospitals-placed-on-probation-by-joint-commission.html

I'll admit, since I've learned they are above punishment and could get away with killing someone in Times Square, my desire to follow all the bad news they receive has greatly lessened. I'm slippy mostly due to apathy. To paraphrase Roy Williams, "I just don't give a poop about Carolina as much as I used to".

UNC has come out and strongly said, "We are Carolina. We are better than everyone else and everyone else thinks so. How dare you accuse us of not being as awesome as we think we are."

https://tbicenter.unc.edu/assets/img/posts/19.pdf

[Steven43]

Let's not ignore they problems they've had with Title IX rape investigations. https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2018/06/27/unc-found-have-violated-title-ix-multiyear-investigation

Or that their hospital had to shut down many pediatric cardio surgeries AFTER someone blew the whistle.
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/06/17/us/heart-surgery-children-unc.html


Then of course we have their football stadium named after a key figure in the Wilmington Massacre. We have the UNC BOT and Ram's Club Chair swapping seats and lots of other shady University things in general.

The more I learn about UNC the more I think it is a bad University where the good people stay quite because they need a job.
This seems way over the top. Have you looked into all of the trouble Duke University Hospital and Duke University in general (including employees) have gotten into over the past 20 years?

Keep in mind, I love Duke University and Duke Hospital. I’m just saying bad and illicit things happen at EVERY university and hospital. To single out UNC and it’s hospital system as somehow being more immoral or incompetent than most of the others just doesn’t hold up to scrutiny.

[BLPOG]

I'll admit, since I've learned they are above punishment and could get away with killing someone in Times Square, my desire to follow all the bad news they receive has greatly lessened. I'm slippy mostly due to apathy. To paraphrase Roy Williams, "I just don't give a poop about Carolina as much as I used to".

UNC has come out and strongly said, "We are Carolina. We are better than everyone else and everyone else thinks so. How dare you accuse us of not being as awesome as we think we are."

https://tbicenter.unc.edu/assets/img/posts/19.pdf

That pdf is worth a read. Two things I think are worth noting:


Statement from UNC-Chapel Hill Interim Chancellor Kevin Guskiewicz:
“I stand by our concussion research 100 percent. The allegations about our research are baseless,
without scientific merit and completely false.

That is a sufficiently strong claim that it's almost guaranteed to be trivially false even without an examination of the evidence. The "allegations" don't even need to be at all correct, only pass some basic research standards, to contradict this statement. Upon seeing that statement, I'd expect anyone who has examined some of the relevant evidence to be immediately suspicious of Guskiewicz.

Second, the remaining content of the statement is little more than ad hominem and its inverse, not addressing substantive claims. While talking about credentials can be sometimes be useful, the point is to use that sort of information when you don't have other evidence to examine or when deciding how to prioritize one's limited resources in conducting an examination of evidence from difference sources. For a good exposition on the topic, see Argument Screens Off Authority (https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/5yFRd3cjLpm3Nd6Di/argument-screens-off-authority-1). The form of this particular response should be pretty alarming to anyone who values scientific rigor, in my opinion.

[devildeac]

I'll admit, since I've learned they are above punishment and could get away with killing someone in Times Square, my desire to follow all the bad news they receive has greatly lessened. I'm slippy mostly due to apathy. To paraphrase Roy Williams, "I just don't give a poop about Carolina as much as I used to".

UNC has come out and strongly said, "We are Carolina. We are better than everyone else and everyone else thinks so. How dare you accuse us of not being as awesome as we think we are."

https://tbicenter.unc.edu/assets/img/posts/19.pdf

Check your PM. ;)

[UrinalCake]

Major document dump yesterday on Twitter from Ted Tatos, who wrote the article that was the main focus of the Athletic feature. He is launching an all-out attack on UNC’s concussion research. Many are responding in defense of their work and methodology. Wrapped up in all of this are some emails from former UNC athletes supporting him and Mary Williingham for their work exposing the fake classes scam. If you recall, Tatos was one who uncovered much of the fraud by poring through the supplemental docs of the Wainstein report, which was literally millions of pages.

[devildeac]

Major document dump yesterday on Twitter from Ted Tatos, who wrote the article that was the main focus of the Athletic feature. He is launching an all-out attack on UNC’s concussion research. Many are responding in defense of their work and methodology. Wrapped up in all of this are some emails from former UNC athletes supporting him and Mary Williingham for their work exposing the fake classes scam. If you recall, Tatos was one who uncovered much of the fraud by poring through the supplemental docs of the Wainstein report, which was literally millions of pages.

It'll be interesting to see if espn covers this...

:rolleyes::mad:

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

It'll be interesting to see if espn covers this...

:rolleyes::mad:

I imagine it won't be interesting. Sadly.

[UrinalCake]

It'll be interesting to see if espn covers this...

:rolleyes::mad:

Not a peep so far. The Athletic is a rival publication who has stolen away many of their top writers, so I doubt they’ll be citing their work. Plus, it’s UNC.

[devildeac]

I imagine it won't be interesting. Sadly.


Not a peep so far. The Athletic is a rival publication who has stolen away many of their top writers, so I doubt they’ll be citing their work. Plus, it’s UNC.

The really nice thing would be if the NYT, WaPost and a few other major newspapers picked this up and ran with it.

[Tooold]

It'll be interesting to see if espn covers this...

:rolleyes::mad:

I think they are far too busy going through every second of the grizzlies game in super slo-mo to see if Grayson did anything “wrong”

[wavedukefan70s]

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but this is prevalent throughout education today. My wife is a teacher at a military leadership School, and they have to constantly deal with over-entitled parents who constantly try to get their kids on a "list" for ADHD, autism, etc., because it gets them extra benefits, and special provisions. It's out of control.

It was/is big in baseball around here in the highschool level.if there kid doesnt have the meds.they parents will pay you a pretty penny for your kids meds.crazy stuff.

[madscavenger]

Tag line don't lie

No gruel for you, baby blue

The music never stops
The music never stops
The music never stops

The music never stops

[PackMan97]

This seems way over the top.

I was actually thinking i was going soft on the Cheats.

Do we forget the Walk-on that got beat up in a hazing incident that the University settled for almost seven figures? I think the four players each received a one game suspension against Liberty. Something is definitely rotten at UNC and it's not over the top to say so.
https://www.newsobserver.com/sports/college/acc/unc/article85089202.html

[TKG]

It'll be interesting to see if espn covers this...

:rolleyes::mad:

Now that Skipper is gone, perhaps a glimmer of hope?

[arnie]

I was actually thinking i was going soft on the Cheats.

Do we forget the Walk-on that got beat up in a hazing incident that the University settled for almost seven figures? I think the four players each received a one game suspension against Liberty. Something is definitely rotten at UNC and it's not over the top to say so.
https://www.newsobserver.com/sports/college/acc/unc/article85089202.html

And don’t forget Cheats destruction of our locker room after football win😡

[Steven43]

I was actually thinking i was going soft on the Cheats.

Do we forget the Walk-on that got beat up in a hazing incident that the University settled for almost seven figures? I think the four players each received a one game suspension against Liberty. Something is definitely rotten at UNC and it's not over the top to say so.
https://www.newsobserver.com/sports/college/acc/unc/article85089202.html
Well, I was essentially referring to UNC Hospital and UNC academics unrelated to the “student”-athletes portion of the student body. I think there is a clear delineation.

However, I do agree that UNC compromises it’s integrity in regard to its basketball and football programs. Of that there is no doubt.

[UrinalCake]

In that Athletic piece, Willingham draws a connection between the fraudulent concussion research and the fraudulent classes. She says that both stem from the university’s prevailing attitude to protect the brand at all costs. For that reason, when she presented research demonstrating that their athletes read at a fourth grade level she was discredited, forced out, and even threatened.

The stuff going on at the hospital may be unrelated, but the attitude is the same.

[PackMan97]

Well, I was essentially referring to UNC Hospital and UNC academics unrelated to the “student”-athletes portion of the student body. I think there is a clear delineation.

However, I do agree that UNC compromises it’s integrity in regard to its basketball and football programs. Of that there is no doubt.



In that Athletic piece, Willingham draws a connection between the fraudulent concussion research and the fraudulent classes.

The stuff going on at the hospital may be unrelated, but the attitude is the same.

I do think they are unrelated, but not. It's the same attitude. The same willingness to compromise to get what you want. The same desire to cover up and obfuscate instead of deal with systemic problems head on and in the open. It pervades the entire UNC-CH culture. Let's not even get into the shaddy links between Fats/Basketball and the Dental school. I just do not have a good opinion of UNC.

[TruBlu]

... I just do not have a good opinion of UNC.

Understatement of the year.

[BLPOG]

Technically off-topic for the thread, but does anyone know which was the most recent thread covering Louisville's athletic scandals? I did a search but there were a number of threads and I'm hoping not too spend time re-reading them. I saw an interesting related bit of news that I'd like to post.

[DukieInKansas]

I didn't want to start a thread on this so thought I would put this here as a bright spot for unc - even if it is Harrison Barnes. ;)

https://abcnews.go.com/US/athletes-team-supply-funeral-atatiana-jefferson-killed-home/story?id=66361119&cid=clicksource_4380645_null_card_hed

He and and Jacksonville Jaguar player Malik Jackson are covering the costs for the funeral of Atatiana Jefferson. I don't believe either had a connection to the family.

[mattman91]

I didn't want to start a thread on this so thought I would put this here as a bright spot for unc - even if it is Harrison Barnes. ;)

https://abcnews.go.com/US/athletes-team-supply-funeral-atatiana-jefferson-killed-home/story?id=66361119&cid=clicksource_4380645_null_card_hed

He and and Jacksonville Jaguar player Malik Jackson are covering the costs for the funeral of Atatiana Jefferson. I don't believe either had a connection to the family.

Who is this Harrison Barnes guy? That was nice of him.

[devildeac]

Who is this Harrison Barnes guy? That was nice of him.

Sporks to the first poster who can remind mattman of who this guy is, but only if it's a photo of him in a banana suit. Sadly, I wasted a buncha time this AM searching for that cherished photo but was unable to locate.

[UrinalCake]

I didn't want to start a thread on this so thought I would put this here as a bright spot for unc - even if it is Harrison Barnes. ;)

That's a really cool thing that he did. But he's still a bum.

[PackMan97]

There was some bad news from UNC earlier this week, but I just didn't feel the need to post it. Bad people gonna bad.

[CameronBlue]

There was some bad news from UNC earlier this week, but I just didn't feel the need to post it. Bad people gonna bad.

Yeah, let's get this thread back on track.

[Dr. Rosenrosen]

Yeah, let’s get back to the hatin’... here ya go...

9860

[devildeac]

Yeah, let’s get back to the hatin’... here ya go...

9860

Outstanding work! I knew it was out there but got reeaally tired of looking through HWNSNBM photos to find it. As promised:

98629862

^^^^
(sorry, best I could do-I'm not permitted to spork you in the usual DBR manner :()

[PackMan97]

https://www.wral.com/feds-unc-ch-didnt-warn-students-of-campus-crime-underreported-annual-numbers/18776793/

UNC caught lying about the safety of their campus.


"The University has failed to meet its regulatory responsibilities in numerous and serious ways. Such a failure calls into question the willingness and the ability of UNC to meet its obligations not only to the Department ... but also to its students, employees and the campus community," the report states. "With regard to the Clery Act, such impairment resulted in the institution's systemic failure to provide students and employees with important campus crime information and services essential to their safety and security."

The report included nine findings of deficiencies, including an overall lack of administrative capability; inaccurately compiling crime statistics by misclassifying or excluding at least 20 reports from 2009 to 2012 or failing to include data from Granville Towers, several fraternity and sorority houses and areas just off campus; and failing several times to issue timely campus safety warnings in cases where no one had been apprehended after a crime.

Investigators also dinged UNC-Chapel Hill for delays in producing accurate records during the lengthy probe, noting information had to corrected twice in May alone.

"[I]t is abundantly clear that the Department's intervention was the impetus for substantially all of the remedial steps that were taken by the University and that no such action would have been taken if the agency had not intervened by conducting this review," the report states.

Cheaters be cheating. Doesn't matter if it's basketball, football, concussion research, crime reporting. Cheaters born and bred.

9f

[UrinalCake]

Not the first time they’ve been found guilty of this kind of thing.

https://www.dailytarheel.com/article/2013/01/50f8ca9bc71da

[devildeac]

https://www.wral.com/feds-unc-ch-didnt-warn-students-of-campus-crime-underreported-annual-numbers/18776793/

UNC caught lying about the safety of their campus.



Cheaters be cheating. Doesn't matter if it's basketball, football, concussion research, crime reporting. Cheaters born and bred.

9f

SMH. And I actually get a check every 2 weeks from these @#$% now. (That story will only be told at a tailgate sometime and it's going to take several fuse cat 3 beers to coax it out of me.)

[BD80]

https://www.wral.com/feds-unc-ch-didnt-warn-students-of-campus-crime-underreported-annual-numbers/18776793/

UNC caught lying about the safety of their campus.



Cheaters be cheating. Doesn't matter if it's basketball, football, concussion research, crime reporting. Cheaters born and bred.

9f

Maybe we should be giving the heels bonus points for administrative consistency ...

[accfanfrom1970]

SMH. And I actually get a check every 2 weeks from these @#$% now. (That story will only be told at a tailgate sometime and it's going to take several fuse cat 3 beers to coax it out of me.)

I’m working on it for the Miami game :)

[4Gen]

DVR alert. Prof Jay Smith talks about his book, Cheated, on Booktv today at noon on cspan2.

[arnie]

DVR alert. Prof Jay Smith talks about his book, Cheated, on Booktv today at noon on cspan2.

Too bad this can’t follow the Super Bowl on network TV.

[ehdg]

Geez unc is really bad this year! Their down 20 to Pitt beginning of the 2nd half. Sadly I’m not enjoying how easily it has become to beat unc. Hard to believe but I’m starting to feel a bit sorry for them.

[Dr. Rosenrosen]

Geez unc is really bad this year! Their down 20 to Pitt beginning of the 2nd half. Sadly I’m not enjoying how easily it has become to beat unc. Hard to believe but I’m starting to feel a bit sorry for them.
Let me provide some assistance in the form of a reminder that they CHEATED for nearly 20 years. This season marks the first of what should be at least 18 consecutive losing seasons for them. That might suffice for about half of the penance owed.

If that reminder does not help, you may want to schedule a visit with your primary care physician. :cool:

[moonpie23]

Let me provide some assistance in the form of a reminder that they CHEATED for nearly 20 years. This season marks the first of what should be at least 18 consecutive losing seasons for them. That might suffice for about half of the penance owed.

If that reminder does not help, you may want to schedule a visit with your primary care physician. :cool:

You must spread some Comments around before commenting on Dr. Rosenrosen again.


sporkz.....all frickin day for this.....there can not be enough misery heaped about the hump.....hopefully, THIS is the punishment....and even more hopefully, THIS is just the beginning...


How long before Cole announces that he's hurt for the rest of the year (till draft day) and.......how long before the first de-commit?

[richardjackson199]

You must spread some Comments around before commenting on Dr. Rosenrosen again.


sporkz....all frickin day for this....there can not be enough misery heaped about the hump....hopefully, THIS is the punishment...and even more hopefully, THIS is just the beginning...


How long before Cole announces that he's hurt for the rest of the year (till draft day) and....how long before the first de-commit?

I'll be shocked if Anthony isn't playing at least by next Saturday vs Miami at the dump. For anybody playing the cheats the rest of the year, they should just double or triple team him. He is coming back for one reason only, and it isn't to help the cheats win games. He wants to get his draft stock back up to top 3. So he is going to be shooting a lot, and not looking to pass.

[porkpa]

This has to be absolutely the worst shooting team that UNC has ever had.
They are equally as bad from the charity stripe.
The only thing that cold possibly partially salvage the season for them is to beat Duke.

[ehdg]

Let me provide some assistance in the form of a reminder that they CHEATED for nearly 20 years. This season marks the first of what should be at least 18 consecutive losing seasons for them. That might suffice for about half of the penance owed.

If that reminder does not help, you may want to schedule a visit with your primary care physician. :cool:

Valid point but it’s hard to enjoy when they lose so much n easily. As for my primary he’d say it’s not in his realm n would probably recommend a psychiatrist for this issue.

[MarkD83]

Valid point but it’s hard to enjoy when they lose so much n easily. As for my primary he’d say it’s not in his realm n would probably recommend a psychiatrist for this issue.

Speak for yourself. I wish they’d lose every time they play.

[MChambers]

You must spread some Comments around before commenting on Dr. Rosenrosen again.


sporkz....all frickin day for this....there can not be enough misery heaped about the hump....hopefully, THIS is the punishment...and even more hopefully, THIS is just the beginning...


How long before Cole announces that he's hurt for the rest of the year (till draft day) and....how long before the first de-commit?

Covered for you.

[devildeac]

Valid point but it’s hard to enjoy when they lose so much n easily. As for my primary he’d say it’s not in his realm n would probably recommend a psychiatrist for this issue.

I'm greatly enjoying their # of losses (can never be enough for me) and their losing deficits (if every loss could be akin to something like 50-82, I'd be beyond ecstatic).

:D:D

[MChambers]

I'm greatly enjoying their # of losses (can never be enough for me) and their losing deficits (if every loss could be akin to something like 50-82, I'd be beyond ecstatic).

:D:D

When they're losing by 20 at the half, it's a big of a letdown to have them lose by only 14. I was hoping for at least 30.

[PackMan97]

We all lose when the cheaters take the court. I wish they'd lose their ability to field a team

[OldPhiKap]

Valid point but it’s hard to enjoy when they lose so much n easily.

I find it hard to enjoy the fact that they are allowed to play NCAA athletics at all, given that the entire athletic program should have gotten the death penalty due to decades of systematic cheating by the administration and the school at large.

I also find it hard to enjoy that they are still in the ACC given their abrasive, unjustified sanctimonious haughtiness and condescending crap.

Lots of losses? That’s the best I can make of the bad situation. Hope they lose every damn game in every damn sport in every damn year. And that they then have a flat damn tire on their collective damn cars after each damn practice leading to each damn loss. And then it rains on their damn exposed heads.

Just my humble opinion though.

[rsvman]

They can lose all they want; I'm fine with it!

[devildeac]

I find it hard to enjoy the fact that they are allowed to play NCAA athletics at all, given that the entire athletic program should have gotten the death penalty due to decades of systematic cheating by the administration and the school at large.

I also find it hard to enjoy that they are still in the ACC given their abrasive, unjustified sanctimonious haughtiness and condescending crap.

Lots of losses? That’s the best I can make of the bad situation. Hope they lose every damn game in every damn sport in every damn year. And that they then have a flat damn tire on their collective damn cars after each damn practice leading to each damn loss. And then it rains on their damn exposed heads.

Just my humble opinion though.

With a post like this, there has to be another space created on Mt. Hatemore for OPK.

:D

[OldPhiKap]

With a post like this, there has to be another space created on Mt. Hatemore for OPK.

:D

I am the lone Geronimo monument some miles away, not fully formed but proudly fighting the battles against all comers . . . .

(the Black Hills are neat).

[DukieInKansas]

I am the lone Geronimo monument some miles away, not fully formed but proudly fighting the battles against all comers . . . .

(the Black Hills are neat).


I thought that was Crazy Horse.

[jv001]

I find it hard to enjoy the fact that they are allowed to play NCAA athletics at all, given that the entire athletic program should have gotten the death penalty due to decades of systematic cheating by the administration and the school at large.

I also find it hard to enjoy that they are still in the ACC given their abrasive, unjustified sanctimonious haughtiness and condescending crap.

Lots of losses? That’s the best I can make of the bad situation. Hope they lose every damn game in every damn sport in every damn year. And that they then have a flat damn tire on their collective damn cars after each damn practice leading to each damn loss. And then it rains on their damn exposed heads.

Just my humble opinion though.

Can't spork but I agree with all you said in your post.

GoDuke!

[OldPhiKap]

I thought that was Crazy Horse.

I thin you're right. My bad.

[Teton Jack]

I agree with that sentiment. I still can't believe the NCAA wussed up. If the institution formerly known as UNC-CH had integrity, they would have given basketball the death sentence themselves and handed back the tainted trophies as ill-gotten gain.

I would love to seen someone at the Duke-"them" halftime use one of those t-shirt blasters to blast out fake UNC diplomas.

[moonpie23]

they will most prolly sweep us again this year...

[Papa John]

I find it hard to enjoy the fact that they are allowed to play NCAA athletics at all, given that the entire athletic program should have gotten the death penalty due to decades of systematic cheating by the administration and the school at large.

I also find it hard to enjoy that they are still in the ACC given their abrasive, unjustified sanctimonious haughtiness and condescending crap.

Lots of losses? That’s the best I can make of the bad situation. Hope they lose every damn game in every damn sport in every damn year. And that they then have a flat damn tire on their collective damn cars after each damn practice leading to each damn loss. And then it rains on their damn exposed heads.

Just my humble opinion though.

I must share some love before sporking you again... Was going to say I approve of this post, and agree (and I have a graduate degree from UNC in addition to my Duke undergrad, so I've spent time in both locales and have a genuine respect for academic programs at each)...

[elvis14]

I find it hard to enjoy the fact that they are allowed to play NCAA athletics at all, given that the entire athletic program should have gotten the death penalty due to decades of systematic cheating by the administration and the school at large.

I also find it hard to enjoy that they are still in the ACC given their abrasive, unjustified sanctimonious haughtiness and condescending crap.

Lots of losses? That’s the best I can make of the bad situation. Hope they lose every damn game in every damn sport in every damn year. And that they then have a flat damn tire on their collective damn cars after each damn practice leading to each damn loss. And then it rains on their damn exposed heads.

Just my humble opinion though.

I agree with OPK here but I have to say that I think he's being a bit too lenient on the Cheats. No where in his post do I see a reference to fire, salting of the earth (on cheater hill), etc.

[OldPhiKap]

I agree with OPK here but I have to say that I think he's being a bit too lenient on the Cheats. No where in his post do I see a reference to fire, salting of the earth (on cheater hill), etc.

"New Year, New Me"

[CameronBlue]

"New Year, New Me"

No locusts, plagues or pestilence? It's the New Testament OPK.

[OldPhiKap]

No locusts, plagues or pestilence? It's the New Testament OPK.

To be frank, it really has to do more with the fact that if you admit your intentions up front they tag "with malice aforethought" on to the charge.

[CameronBornAndBred]

To be frank, it really has to do more with the fact that if you admit your intentions up front they tag "with malice aforethought" on to the charge.
I thought your name was Bill?

[Tooold]

I'm greatly enjoying their # of losses (can never be enough for me) and their losing deficits (if every loss could be akin to something like 50-82, I'd be beyond ecstatic).

:D:D
While I agree completely with this, I am trying to push negative thoughts out of my mind. I am worried (irrationally I know) that my glee over “their” losses somehow contributed to our bad week....bad karma or whatever. Now I am trying to not think about “them” at all. 😬

[devildeac]

I thought your name was Bill?

It appears he's being Ernest with you.

[OldPhiKap]

I thought your name was Bill?


It appears he's being Ernest with you.

Shirley you're not serious.

[PackMan97]

While I agree completely with this, I am trying to push negative thoughts out of my mind. I am worried (irrationally I know) that my glee over “their” losses somehow contributed to our bad week...bad karma or whatever. Now I am trying to not think about “them” at all. 😬

I've had much glee over the cheaters this week and it didn't seem to hurt State on the court. Cheer away... But really indifference is really the way to go. They don't deserve our attention. Really mashes their fans mad when you ignore them.

[SouthernDukie]

I've had much glee over the cheaters this week and it didn't seem to hurt State on the court. Cheer away... But really indifference is really the way to go. They don't deserve our attention. Really mashes their fans mad when you ignore them.

AKA, the opposite of love isn't hate. It's indifference.

[Reddevil]

Shirley you're not serious.

You're being a smart Aleck.

[jv001]

I've had much glee over the cheaters this week and it didn't seem to hurt State on the court. Cheer away... But really indifference is really the way to go. They don't deserve our attention. Really mashes their fans mad when you ignore them.

Maybe this is how they would have played all those cheating years with eligible players that actually went to class. No, that's not right, they're probably still cheating.

GoDuke!

[OldPhiKap]

You're being a smart Aleck.

Although your comment hurt me to the quick, in a way I still Doug it.

[Tripping William]

Although your comment hurt me to the quick, in a way I still Doug it.

All these name puns. I think I’m gonna Ralph.

[OldPhiKap]

All these name puns. I think I’m gonna Ralph.

So Sue me then.

[uh_no]

So Sue me then.

Sue Ralph? Who is Shea?

[devildeac]

Shirley you're not serious.

Don't ever call either of us Shirley again.

;):o

[uh_no]

Don't ever call either of us Shirley again.

;):o

an unexcused absence? What is it?

It's when students are supposed to show up to class, but don't. But that's not important here.

[MartyClark]

I've had much glee over the cheaters this week and it didn't seem to hurt State on the court. Cheer away... But really indifference is really the way to go. They don't deserve our attention. Really mashes their fans mad when you ignore them.

My head agrees with you, my heart says no. I can't ignore the Cheats. I need to revel in every defeat. I need to pay attention to all of their failings. I need to delight in every loss. Am I a small person? Perhaps. That's how I roll.

[MartyClark]

No locusts, plagues or pestilence? It's the New Testament OPK.

Not to nitpick, but isn't this Old Testament?

Either way, the Cheats deserve flood, locusts, plagues, pestilence, years of wandering in the wilderness.

[OldPhiKap]

I don’t care when they win, and I celebrate when they lose. Best of all worlds in my book.

[wilson]

Not to nitpick, but isn't this Old Testament?

Either way, the Cheats deserve flood, locusts, plagues, pestilence, years of wandering in the wilderness.When we bring down the dean dome, I get to blow the trumpet first.

[devildeac]

When we bring down the dean dome, I get to blow the trumpet first.

You can't/won't be first as c*rolina blue before you were born...

[gep]

I don’t care when they win, and I celebrate when they lose. Best of all worlds in my book.

I actually "hurt" when they win. I perpetually hope they *never* win again.

Wouldn't it be just GREAT if ol'Roy passes Smith in *losses* before *wins*...

[BD80]

Not to nitpick, but isn't this Old Testament?

Either way, the Cheats deserve flood, locusts, plagues, pestilence, years of wandering in the wilderness.


Some of are so old that not only were we around when the "Old" Testament was the ONLY Testament, we remember when it was new!


But DON'T ask me to remember where I put my keys, or why I walked into this room!

[PackMan97]

Maybe this is how they would have played all those cheating years with eligible players that actually went to class. No, that's not right, they're probably still cheating.

GoDuke!

State is proof positive that you can cheat and still suck. *cough*Dennis Smith Jr*cough*

[bundabergdevil]

Very nice timeline of how UNCs season unraveled from ESPN. Any opportunity to elevate their dumpster fire of a coach and season is ok by me.

https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/28523427/how-north-carolina-2019-20-season-unraveled-line

[Lurkingdukedog]

Very nice timeline of how UNCs season unraveled from ESPN. Any opportunity to elevate their dumpster fire of a coach and season is ok by me.

https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/28523427/how-north-carolina-2019-20-season-unraveled-line

Thanks for posting this. I was going to after having read in on ESPN but you beat me to it. I would appear (at least from this writer's perspective) that even those the Cheats did have anything formally done to them, their recruiting suffered nonetheless.

[JimBD]

As I was watching the FSU/UNC game tonight Feb. 3 on ESPN, one of the commentators (I believe it was Sean McDonough), praised Leonard Hamilton by stating that his players always stayed out of trouble and went to class. No such comments about Roy and UNC--imagine that!

[BD80]

As I was watching the FSU/UNC game tonight Feb. 3 on ESPN, one of the commentators (I believe it was Sean McDonough), praised Leonard Hamilton by stating that his players always stayed out of trouble and went to class. No such comments about Roy and UNC--imagine that!


That's a little unfair, ol' roy's boys have always stayed out of class!

[PackMan97]

Very nice timeline of how UNCs season unraveled from ESPN. Any opportunity to elevate their dumpster fire of a coach and season is ok by me.

https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/28523427/how-north-carolina-2019-20-season-unraveled-line

I will bathe in the tears of the Tarheels tonight. How clean I will feel!

[tteettimes]

I will bathe in the tears of the Tarheels tonight. How clean I will feel!


I would not even relieve myself with cheats eye drops

[heyman25]

I still do not expect Duke to get an easy win in Chapel Heahl next Saturday. We should have a beatdown, but our team rarely gets that done. BC game will be a challenge even though we soundly tounced them in Cameron.

[AZLA]

Very nice timeline of how UNCs season unraveled from ESPN. Any opportunity to elevate their dumpster fire of a coach and season is ok by me.

https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/28523427/how-north-carolina-2019-20-season-unraveled-line

I'm surprised the author so conveniently avoided Awe-Shuck's slander of his own team. I don't care if a team is comprised of the Lollipop Guild, a team can always compete if they have collective belief in each other and the belief of their coach.

[Kedsy]

We should have a beatdown, but our team rarely gets that done.

Rarely, huh? In the actual world, this year's team has more 30+ point ACC wins (4) than all but one team in Coach K's 40 years ('99, with 6; but FWIW on 2/4/1999 that team only had 2 ACC 30+ point wins), and they've done it in only half a season. If you think that's rare, perhaps your expectations are a tad high.

[heyman25]

Why should it not be high? February is the month that we will see if this Duke team has what it takes to go far in post season play. I live in the present, glad that you have good statistical records Kedsy!

[Kedsy]

Why should it not be high? February is the month that we will see if this Duke team has what it takes to go far in post season play. I live in the present, glad that you have good statistical records Kedsy!

Not sure what's so special about February, but FWIW Duke has lost two or more February games in 8 of Coach K's 12 Final Four years, including 3 of his 5 championship years.

And I'm all for high expectations, but if you expect more blowouts than any Coach K team has ever had, your expectations aren't just high, they're unrealistic.

[BLPOG]

As others mentioned, Heels looked good (https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/boxscore?gameId=401168498) tonight. Click for the ESPN boxscore.

[Kedsy]

Not sure what's so special about February, but FWIW Duke has lost two or more February games in 8 of Coach K's 12 Final Four years, including 3 of his 5 championship years.

For comparison’s sake, Coach K has had 15 teams with 2 or fewer February losses that didn’t make it past the Sweet 16, including 7 teams that did so and then won zero or one NCAAT games.

So I haven’t done a full statistical analysis, but I’m pretty sure there’s absolutely no correlation between February performance and NCAAT performance.

[Indoor66]

That's a little unfair, ol' roy's boys have always stayed out of class and found lots of trouble!

FIFY

[elvis14]

As others mentioned, Heels looked good (https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/boxscore?gameId=401168498) tonight. Click for the ESPN boxscore.

I don't think we should be focussed on how the Cheaters "looked good". We should focus on the fact they lost again and we should celebrate this loss (just like the BC game this past weekend).

They are 3-8 in conference play and in last place. It's beautiful.

[DukieInKansas]

I don't think we should be focussed on how the Cheaters "looked good". We should focus on the fact they lost again and we should celebrate this loss (just like the BC game this past weekend).

They are 3-8 in conference play and in last place. It's beautiful.

And that is why they looked good. :D

[BLPOG]

I don't think we should be focussed on how the Cheaters "looked good". We should focus on the fact they lost again and we should celebrate this loss (just like the BC game this past weekend).

They are 3-8 in conference play and in last place. It's beautiful.

In case it's unclear, "Heels looked good" is a euphamism for "Heels lost."

[elvis14]

In case it's unclear, "Heels looked good" is a euphamism for "Heels lost."

Sorry, obviously my morning helping of caffeine has not kicked in fully and my ability to think in a non-linear manner has been hampered. My bad, I'll fix the issue promptly. 9F

[howardlander]

In case it's unclear, "Heels looked good" is a euphamism for "Heels lost."

I'm not sure it's a euphemism. Dictionary.com defines a euphemism as "a mild or indirect word or expression substituted for one considered to be too harsh or blunt when referring to something unpleasant or embarrassing.". Nothing unpleasant or embarrassing about another Tar Heel loss. Well, at least not to me...

Howard

[BD80]

In case it's unclear, "Heels looked good" is a euphamism for "Heels lost."


Euthanasia? For the heels? The players might volunteer. ol' roy would probably offer them all up, except Anthony.

[robed deity]

With an O rating of 93.6 (per Torvik), I hope the Heels continue to let Anthony "have the keys to the car."

Though now that I said that, he'll probably go off for an efficient 30 Saturday.

[Indoor66]

Who cares?

[BLPOG]

I'm not sure it's a euphemism. Dictionary.com defines a euphemism as "a mild or indirect word or expression substituted for one considered to be too harsh or blunt when referring to something unpleasant or embarrassing.". Nothing unpleasant or embarrassing about another Tar Heel loss. Well, at least not to me...

Howard

Good point