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scottdude8
08-20-2019, 10:29 AM
Instead of burying discussion about the future of Duke football in the NFL, let's highlight him with his own thread! He deserves it.

I'll start it off by with "dog bites man" style news: Baker Mayfield said some silly words (https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/27425946/mayfield-giants-pick-jones-blows-my-mind). Sure, you can be surprised Jones got picked so early, but not calling him a "winner"? That's just false. Going to a bowl 2 of 3 years at Duke given the supporting cast he had relative to his direct competition, let alone the skill guys Baker had at Oklahoma, sure sounds like a "winner" to me. You can't compare apples and oranges. If Baker wanted to talk about a guy who wasn't a "winner" in college, consider that No. 1 overall pick Jared Goff was a combined 6-18 in his first two years, and just squeaked out bowl eligibility in his last year at 7-5, at a school that has had success historically at football (Cal).

Despite the success we've had over the past 6-7 years on the football field Duke can't quite shake the specter of it's horrible past, and that continues to color people's opinion not only of the program, but of Jones. It's frustrating, but hopefully that puts an extra chip on our (and Daniel's!) shoulder. I can't wait for Jones to prove them all wrong.

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
08-20-2019, 10:48 AM
Instead of burying discussion about the future of Duke football in the NFL, let's highlight him with his own thread! He deserves it.

I'll start it off by with "dog bites man" style news: Baker Mayfield said some silly words (https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/27425946/mayfield-giants-pick-jones-blows-my-mind). Sure, you can be surprised Jones got picked so early, but not calling him a "winner"? That's just false. Going to a bowl 2 of 3 years at Duke given the supporting cast he had relative to his direct competition, let alone the skill guys Baker had at Oklahoma, sure sounds like a "winner" to me. You can't compare apples and oranges. If Baker wanted to talk about a guy who wasn't a "winner" in college, consider that No. 1 overall pick Jared Goff was a combined 6-18 in his first two years, and just squeaked out bowl eligibility in his last year at 7-5, at a school that has had success historically at football (Cal).

Despite the success we've had over the past 6-7 years on the football field Duke can't quite shake the specter of it's horrible past, and that continues to color people's opinion not only of the program, but of Jones. It's frustrating, but hopefully that puts an extra chip on our (and Daniel's!) shoulder. I can't wait for Jones to prove them all wrong.

I'm not sure Daniel needs a chip on his shoulder, what with the collarbone issues.

I strongly support a Daniel thread. I hope it is busy for all the right reasons this season.

bundabergdevil
08-20-2019, 10:54 AM
Instead of burying discussion about the future of Duke football in the NFL, let's highlight him with his own thread! He deserves it.

I'll start it off by with "dog bites man" style news: Baker Mayfield said some silly words (https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/27425946/mayfield-giants-pick-jones-blows-my-mind). Sure, you can be surprised Jones got picked so early, but not calling him a "winner"? That's just false. Going to a bowl 2 of 3 years at Duke given the supporting cast he had relative to his direct competition, let alone the skill guys Baker had at Oklahoma, sure sounds like a "winner" to me. You can't compare apples and oranges. If Baker wanted to talk about a guy who wasn't a "winner" in college, consider that No. 1 overall pick Jared Goff was a combined 6-18 in his first two years, and just squeaked out bowl eligibility in his last year at 7-5, at a school that has had success historically at football (Cal).

Despite the success we've had over the past 6-7 years on the football field Duke can't quite shake the specter of it's horrible past, and that continues to color people's opinion not only of the program, but of Jones. It's frustrating, but hopefully that puts an extra chip on our (and Daniel's!) shoulder. I can't wait for Jones to prove them all wrong.

Baker clearly doesn’t have a sense of his position’s history. Many of the NFL greats have made their way along some bumpy paths and weren’t at the helms of blue chip college programs with winning traditions.

OldPhiKap
08-20-2019, 10:57 AM
Baker clearly doesn’t have a sense of his position’s history. Many of the NFL greats have made their way along some bumpy paths and weren’t at the helms of blue chip college programs with winning traditions.

Phil Simms is similar to DJ in that he was a high draft choice for the Giants out of an ever smaller program. In fact, IIRC, Simms had more INTs his senior year than TDs.

Turned out okay, I guess.

AGDukesky
08-20-2019, 11:02 AM
I wonder how Duke would have done with Baker Mayfield and how Oklahoma would have done with Jones- assuming the system was made to fit each player’s style but talent level around them was kept the same. I’m not sure Mayfield would have won much (if any) more at Duke but I don’t think Jones does better than Mayfield at OU...

dukelifer
08-20-2019, 11:14 AM
Instead of burying discussion about the future of Duke football in the NFL, let's highlight him with his own thread! He deserves it.

I'll start it off by with "dog bites man" style news: Baker Mayfield said some silly words (https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/27425946/mayfield-giants-pick-jones-blows-my-mind). Sure, you can be surprised Jones got picked so early, but not calling him a "winner"? That's just false. Going to a bowl 2 of 3 years at Duke given the supporting cast he had relative to his direct competition, let alone the skill guys Baker had at Oklahoma, sure sounds like a "winner" to me. You can't compare apples and oranges. If Baker wanted to talk about a guy who wasn't a "winner" in college, consider that No. 1 overall pick Jared Goff was a combined 6-18 in his first two years, and just squeaked out bowl eligibility in his last year at 7-5, at a school that has had success historically at football (Cal).

Despite the success we've had over the past 6-7 years on the football field Duke can't quite shake the specter of it's horrible past, and that continues to color people's opinion not only of the program, but of Jones. It's frustrating, but hopefully that puts an extra chip on our (and Daniel's!) shoulder. I can't wait for Jones to prove them all wrong.

I am surprised the Browns are keeping them as their starting quarterback. He only has a 7-7 record as a pro- looks pretty mediocre- I mean you need to win and he wins as much as he loses- so...

Devil in the Blue Dress
08-20-2019, 11:45 AM
Baker seems to be Exhibit A for jealousy in the workplace. He doesn't merit any more attention. Daniel is special, a rare player whose backstory belies how good he really is. I like watching him continue becoming better and better. Here's to a remarkable year!:cool:

Acymetric
08-20-2019, 11:54 AM
Baker seems to be Exhibit A for jealousy in the workplace. He doesn't merit any more attention. Daniel is special, a rare player whose backstory belies how good he really is. I like watching him continue becoming better and better. Here's to a remarkable year!:cool:

Baker Mayfield is a hothead who runs his mouth a lot, but I don't think it has anything to do with jealousy. With all due respect to DJ, what on Earth would he be jealous of DJ for?

scottdude8
08-20-2019, 11:58 AM
I wonder how Duke would have done with Baker Mayfield and how Oklahoma would have done with Jones- assuming the system was made to fit each player’s style but talent level around them was kept the same. I’m not sure Mayfield would have won much (if any) more at Duke but I don’t think Jones does better than Mayfield at OU...

I was thinking the same thing. I wouldn't argue Daniel is better than Baker, who was obviously a special talent (especially in the college game). But I think the difference would be a matter of maybe one win a season, not a precipitous falloff like Baker seems to be implying. And when you factor in who fits the pro game more, the comparison gets a bit more complicated and potentially in Daniel's favor. But that's all hypothetical!

budwom
08-20-2019, 11:59 AM
I'm trying to stay level headed about Daniel. The post draft criticism of him was over the top, now some of the adulation is similarly extreme...as they say in sports clee-shay number four, don't get too high when you win, don't get too low when you lose. There are inevitable lumps to be taken.

He's off to a good start, he may or may not get some time this (regular) season, if he does I'm hopeful. Can't see making any declarations or assumptions about him at this point except that he has very good potential, is smart, and works hard. The same can't be said of a lot of NFL players.

Regarding Mayfield, irony noted, since he was a former walk on...had he been a "winner", wouldn't he have merited a scholarship?...in short, I doubt he knows anything about Daniel Jones, more than likely he has never seen him play.

BD80
08-20-2019, 11:59 AM
...

I strongly support a Daniel thread. I hope it is busy for all the right reasons this season.

Three weeks from now this thread should grow stagnant.

I say it picks up again after the Giants 5th game:

They start AT Dallas, even without Zeke, a likely loss. DeMarcus Lawrence has returned for the Boys and may play week one; he loves hitting Eli, and may single-handedly usher in the DJ era.

The Gents then host Buffalo, a loss here would start the DJ chants, Buffalo could be pretty good this year.

Week 3 in Tampa, a third straight loss by Eli would make DJ the most popular QB in Giants history. The Giants are likely 2-1 or 1-2, no real need to change.

Weeks 4 and 5 are home games against the Skins and the Vikings. This should tell us where the Giants stand. Both teams are borderline playoff teams, but have to be considered 2 of the "easier" games on the schedule. And the fun starts …

The Patriots are next up. No sane coach would give a rookie his first start against Bill Belichek. But by now, Eli is likely "dead man walking." This will be Eli's "chance" to keep his starting job. But if the Giants start 2-4, do you continue with Eli? Chatter will be loud.

Now the critical stretch, Week 7 home against the Cardinals and Week 8 in Detroit. I think Giants management sticks with Eli long enough to get him to the soft spot in the schedule. These would be great games to start a rookie, but the team is soft for Eli and gives him a chance to turn the season around. Losses here would make the DJ clamor unbearable.

Two tough games leading into the bye week. At home against the hated Cowboys and across town against the Jets, Jets, Jets. Not a great situation to start a rookie QB. I do suspect that it will be revealed after game 10 that Eli has been battling an injury and they "hope" to have him back after the bye week.

DJ should be taking the helm of the 3-7 Giants against a pretty tough slate of opponents: @ Chicago, Packers, @ Philly, Dolphins, @ Washington, Eagles.

Will the bye week be good bye to Eli?

budwom
08-20-2019, 12:09 PM
^ very plausible scenario...I just hope the OL is fairly competent, because regardless of how Eli performs, a bad OL will be unenjoyable for Jones or whoever plays...he has undeniable talent, but not enough to carry a bad team, which he Giants may or may not be...

sagegrouse
08-20-2019, 12:10 PM
Phil Simms is similar to DJ in that he was a high draft choice for the Giants out of an ever smaller program. In fact, IIRC, Simms had more INTs his senior year than TDs.

Turned out okay, I guess.
Morehead State

HereBeforeCoachK
08-20-2019, 12:16 PM
Baker clearly doesn’t have a sense of his position’s history. Many of the NFL greats have made their way along some bumpy paths and weren’t at the helms of blue chip college programs with winning traditions.

The history of OU QBs in the NFL includes numerous disappointments...even some Heisman winners...you know, not so much with Mayfield, but some OU QBs win awards and have big stats, but when you watch their highlights, they always have plenty of time to throw and their receivers are usually wide open. That's not how it is at Duke, nor how it is in the NFL.

Think Jason White: Heisman winner in 03, Heisman runner up in 04 - not even drafted - never played NFL football. Playing at Oklahoma with all that talent was fantasy, and the NFL is reality. Sam Bradford is mixed bag at best. Mayfield is yet to play out. But you would think someone who went from walk on to Heisman to NFL - would appreciate a guy who went from 2 star lightly recruited to 6th overall pick. Then again, no one ever accused Mayfield of maturity or perspective.

AtlDuke72
08-20-2019, 12:24 PM
Baker Mayfield is a hothead who runs his mouth a lot, but I don't think it has anything to do with jealousy. With all due respect to DJ, what on Earth would he be jealous of DJ for?

Wow, - Baker Mayfield may be as big a jerk off the field as he is on it.

uh_no
08-20-2019, 12:52 PM
Wow, - Baker Mayfield may be as big a jerk off the field as he is on it.

perfect for the browns.

OldPhiKap
08-20-2019, 01:17 PM
Morehead State

Yup. Per Wiki:

- His senior season he only had a 53.2% completion percentage with 6 TDs and 11 interceptions.
- His college career completion rate was just 48.9%, with 32 TDs and 45 interceptions.

Giants took him seventh overall. He only went on to win two Super Bowls including being the MVP of SB XXI, and making two pro bowls.

His number is retired.

moonpie23
08-20-2019, 01:19 PM
Bold moves, often times, succeed or fail stunningly. Which will this be? Not much “story” in the middle.

OldPhiKap
08-20-2019, 01:42 PM
Wow, - Baker Mayfield may be as big a jerk off the field as he is on it.

Phrasing!

OldPhiKap
08-20-2019, 01:57 PM
Daniel Jones on Baker Mayfield: "I think he's a great player. He can throw it and I enjoy watching him play."

(Per tweet from Paul Schwartz of the NY Post).

That's how you show class.

nmduke2001
08-20-2019, 02:23 PM
Baker added this to Instagram....

Later on Tuesday, Mayfield clarified his comments in a post to his Instagram Story, writing: "This is not what I said ... just so we're clear. I also said I was surprised I got drafted number one. Then was talking about the flaws in evaluating QB's. Where I brought up winning being important. Reporters and media will do anything to come up with a click bait story. Heard nothing but good things and wish nothing but the best for Daniel."

BD80
08-20-2019, 03:45 PM
Baker added this to Instagram...

Later on Tuesday, Mayfield clarified his comments in a post to his Instagram Story, writing: "This is not what I said ... just so we're clear. I also said I was surprised I got drafted number one. Then was talking about the flaws in evaluating QB's. Where I brought up winning being important. Reporters and media will do anything to come up with a click bait story. Heard nothing but good things and wish nothing but the best for Daniel."


Daniel Jones on Baker Mayfield: "I think he's a great player. He can throw it and I enjoy watching him play."

...

Pretty good scrambling by Baker. Me, I prefer the QB who stands tall in the pocket and makes quick accurate reads, rather than the one who gets happy feet and unexpectedly reverses field.

JNort
08-20-2019, 07:31 PM
I don't blame Baker for what he said. I mean I agree with him. Maybe DJ will prove me wrong but before the draft I said I wouldn't even want him as a backup for a team.

HereBeforeCoachK
08-20-2019, 08:05 PM
I don't blame Baker for what he said. I mean I agree with him. Maybe DJ will prove me wrong but before the draft I said I wouldn't even want him as a backup for a team.

Your reasoning is not at all what Baker's is though....Baker was simply basing this on the fact DJ's W/L record at Duke wasn't great - while his at OUs was. The lack of self awareness, and tone deafness to irony, from Baker, was the main point. Baker's WL record in Cleveland is about what DJ's was, percentage wise, at Duke. Your comment may prove valid in the fullness of time. Baker's reasoning was, and will forever be, flawed.

OldPhiKap
08-20-2019, 08:07 PM
Your reasoning is not at all what Baker's is though...Baker was simply basing this on the fact DJ's W/L record at Duke wasn't great - while his at OUs was. The lack of self awareness, and tone deafness to irony, from Baker, was the main point. Baker's WL record in Cleveland is about what DJ's was, percentage wise, at Duke. Your comment may prove valid in the fullness of time. Baker's reasoning was, and will forever be, flawed.

Baker said he was taken out of context or misquoted. I’m happy to give him the benefit of the doubt absent video to the contrary.

HereBeforeCoachK
08-20-2019, 08:20 PM
Baker said he was taken out of context or misquoted. I’m happy to give him the benefit of the doubt absent video to the contrary.

Well a couple of thoughts on that: First, I was taking the initial comments and the reasoning he gave. I doubt, with that kind of reasoning, that he really didn't say it. That said, comparing WL records at Duke versus OU in FB is not a valid comparison for QBs. Second, the first set of comments are far more in line with his personality. Did you hear what he said post facto about his "Ohio State apology?" The reasonable comments from Baker would be the outlier to his personality.

CrazyNotCrazie
08-20-2019, 08:21 PM
Three weeks from now this thread should grow stagnant.

I say it picks up again after the Giants 5th game:

They start AT Dallas, even without Zeke, a likely loss. DeMarcus Lawrence has returned for the Boys and may play week one; he loves hitting Eli, and may single-handedly usher in the DJ era.

The Gents then host Buffalo, a loss here would start the DJ chants, Buffalo could be pretty good this year.

Week 3 in Tampa, a third straight loss by Eli would make DJ the most popular QB in Giants history. The Giants are likely 2-1 or 1-2, no real need to change.

Weeks 4 and 5 are home games against the Skins and the Vikings. This should tell us where the Giants stand. Both teams are borderline playoff teams, but have to be considered 2 of the "easier" games on the schedule. And the fun starts …

The Patriots are next up. No sane coach would give a rookie his first start against Bill Belichek. But by now, Eli is likely "dead man walking." This will be Eli's "chance" to keep his starting job. But if the Giants start 2-4, do you continue with Eli? Chatter will be loud.

Now the critical stretch, Week 7 home against the Cardinals and Week 8 in Detroit. I think Giants management sticks with Eli long enough to get him to the soft spot in the schedule. These would be great games to start a rookie, but the team is soft for Eli and gives him a chance to turn the season around. Losses here would make the DJ clamor unbearable.

Two tough games leading into the bye week. At home against the hated Cowboys and across town against the Jets, Jets, Jets. Not a great situation to start a rookie QB. I do suspect that it will be revealed after game 10 that Eli has been battling an injury and they "hope" to have him back after the bye week.

DJ should be taking the helm of the 3-7 Giants against a pretty tough slate of opponents: @ Chicago, Packers, @ Philly, Dolphins, @ Washington, Eagles.

Will the bye week be good bye to Eli?

As a Giants fan and a Daniel Jones fan, I really hope that he does not get off the bench the whole season. Hopefully Eli will stay healthy and be reasonably successful so DJ can sit and learn.

The Giants have done some upgrading to their line so that should be helpful. The question mark is the receivers - with Beckham gone the group is meh at best.

Native
08-20-2019, 08:50 PM
I'm trying to stay level headed about Daniel. The post draft criticism of him was over the top, now some of the adulation is similarly extreme...

It's been fun to watch some of the 180-degree turns some members of the media and sports Twitterverse have taken over the past few weeks.

I think there's a lot of weight to the argument that Jones could have been available at #17, and that taking him at #6 was a stretch, but if you think you have your guy you have to take him and that's what the Giants did.

Put me also in the camp that's trying to stay level-headed. I don't know how Jones will turn out in the NFL, but I do think with his play in the preseason he's at least earned the right to not be written off so easily. He's proven that he's deserving of the opportunity he's been given. Now he just has to make it count.

Steven43
08-20-2019, 09:51 PM
Instead of burying discussion about the future of Duke football in the NFL, let's highlight him with his own thread! He deserves it.

I'll start it off by with "dog bites man" style news: Baker Mayfield said some silly words (https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/27425946/mayfield-giants-pick-jones-blows-my-mind). Sure, you can be surprised Jones got picked so early, but not calling him a "winner"? That's just false. Going to a bowl 2 of 3 years at Duke given the supporting cast he had relative to his direct competition, let alone the skill guys Baker had at Oklahoma, sure sounds like a "winner" to me. You can't compare apples and oranges. If Baker wanted to talk about a guy who wasn't a "winner" in college, consider that No. 1 overall pick Jared Goff was a combined 6-18 in his first two years, and just squeaked out bowl eligibility in his last year at 7-5, at a school that has had success historically at football (Cal).

Despite the success we've had over the past 6-7 years on the football field Duke can't quite shake the specter of it's horrible past, and that continues to color people's opinion not only of the program, but of Jones. It's frustrating, but hopefully that puts an extra chip on our (and Daniel's!) shoulder. I can't wait for Jones to prove them all wrong.
I simply cannot wait to see Daniel Jones have a better pro career than Baker Mayfield. I’ve been a Dallas Cowboys fan my whole life and always will be, but I am pulling hard for Jones to have a great career.

budwom
08-21-2019, 07:21 AM
It's been fun to watch some of the 180-degree turns some members of the media and sports Twitterverse have taken over the past few weeks.

I think there's a lot of weight to the argument that Jones could have been available at #17, and that taking him at #6 was a stretch, but if you think you have your guy you have to take him and that's what the Giants did.

Put me also in the camp that's trying to stay level-headed. I don't know how Jones will turn out in the NFL, but I do think with his play in the preseason he's at least earned the right to not be written off so easily. He's proven that he's deserving of the opportunity he's been given. Now he just has to make it count.

yup, first the press utterly vilifies Jones as the sixth pick, now he makes some nice throws (which is indeed encouraging) and he's Danny Dimes? Such is life in NY....if he gets in an early game and throws a pick six they'll feed on his carcass like jackals...as a previous poster stated, let him sit and learn (at least initially)...wouldn't mind seeing him later in the season...

Indoor66
08-21-2019, 07:53 AM
Well a couple of thoughts on that: First, I was taking the initial comments and the reasoning he gave. I doubt, with that kind of reasoning, that he really didn't say it. That said, comparing WL records at Duke versus OU in FB is not a valid comparison for QBs. Second, the first set of comments are far more in line with his personality. Did you hear what he said post facto about his "Ohio State apology?" The reasonable comments from Baker would be the outlier to his personality.

Without context, how can you fathom his reasoning?

BD80
08-21-2019, 09:06 AM
Without context, how can you fathom his reasoning?

This is a guy that shotguns beer (by BITING the can) for the amusement of a stadium full of people and the people of Cleveland.

With that context, how can you presume there is any reasoning?

HereBeforeCoachK
08-21-2019, 09:08 AM
Without context, how can you fathom his reasoning?

I reject the notion that there is no context. There is plenty of context, not only in this interview, but in Baker's last few years of comments. He is who he is.

Acymetric
08-21-2019, 09:26 AM
This is a guy that shotguns beer (by BITING the can) for the amusement of a stadium full of people and the people of Cleveland.

With that context, how can you presume there is any reasoning?

I mean, it isn't exactly a sophisticated look, but where exactly is the problem?

The reason I think what Baker said really might have been taken out of context by GQ is that a) the two quotes they pieced together for that clearly had additional dialog in between that GQ omitted and b) if Baker meant that he would not have apologized (based on his past history of doubling down and refusing to apologize).

I think I would rather we just let this one go, but if we're not going to maybe we can at least shy away from poking at the Browns or Mayfields record (how many NFL wins do Duke QBs have in the last 20 years? And it isn't like Jone's college career was really any better than that, anyway) or the extremely lame stereotypical Duke holier than thou "look how those plebes are doing normal working class things like beer!"

Baker Mayfield tends to be a jerk. I'm not generally a fan (I actually liked the flag planting in college but was not a fan of a bunch of other antics and his constant mouth running). But this is much ado about nothing, and a lot of folks here are writing checks that Duke can't cash in college or​ the pros.

bundabergdevil
08-21-2019, 09:45 AM
This is a guy that shotguns beer (by BITING the can) for the amusement of a stadium full of people and the people of Cleveland.

With that context, how can you presume there is any reasoning?

Whoa, let's not malign shotgunning beers here. Baker's words stand on there own and we can leave shotgunning beers in my fond, fuzzy college memories where it belongs!

flyingdutchdevil
08-21-2019, 09:47 AM
This is a guy that shotguns beer (by BITING the can) for the amusement of a stadium full of people and the people of Cleveland.

With that context, how can you presume there is any reasoning?

Wait. There is nothing wrong with shotgunning beers in public. And biting the can is even more insane.

We can criticize Mayfield for his on-field antics, performance, and interviews, but not his drinking ability.

OldPhiKap
08-21-2019, 09:49 AM
Wait. There is nothing wrong with shotgunning beers in public. And biting the can is even more insane.

We can criticize Mayfield for his on-field antics, performance, and interviews, but not his drinking ability.

Yeah, color me impressed. I may have to start liking this guy.

HereBeforeCoachK
08-21-2019, 10:16 AM
I think I would rather we just let this one go, but if we're not going to maybe we can at least shy away from poking at the Browns or Mayfields record (how many NFL wins do Duke QBs have in the last 20 years? And it isn't like Jone's college career was really any better than that, anyway).

I think you're missing the gist of some commenters. The subject of QB winning percentage was brought up by Mayfield, not Jones, or DBR. It was Mayfield who was tone deaf about QB winning percentages given than his NFL percentage is about what Jones' college percentage is. It is this missing of the irony, the tone deafness, the lack of self awareness of Mayfield that is the point. The stuff about Duke NFL QBs in the last 20 years is simply not relevant to the topic here. I assume everyone here can understand the irony of Baker's comments.....

Acymetric
08-21-2019, 10:22 AM
I think you're missing the gist of some commenters. The subject of QB winning percentage was brought up by Mayfield, not Jones, or DBR. It was Mayfield who was tone deaf about QB winning percentages given than his NFL percentage is about what Jones' college percentage is. It is this missing of the irony, the tone deafness, the lack of self awareness of Mayfield that is the point. The stuff about Duke NFL QBs in the last 20 years is simply not relevant to the topic here. I assume everyone here can understand the irony of Baker's comments...

No, I understand what people are getting at, but Baker's pro career vs. DJ's college career is apples and oranges isn't it? Certainly his college career was much better (obviously he had more talent surrounding him) so I mean, he isn't wrong there. His pro career win % is basically exactly the same as DJs college career anyway (against much better competition than DJ faced in college).

Which is beside the point if you grant that Mayfield's comments were taken out of context, which I suspect they were.

HereBeforeCoachK
08-21-2019, 11:15 AM
No, I understand what people are getting at, but Baker's pro career vs. DJ's college career is apples and oranges isn't it? Certainly his college career was much better (obviously he had more talent surrounding him) so I mean, he isn't wrong there. His pro career win % is basically exactly the same as DJs college career anyway (against much better competition than DJ faced in college).

Which is beside the point if you grant that Mayfield's comments were taken out of context, which I suspect they were.

We're gonna have to disagree on this. It was Mayfield who made winning percentage for QBs the ultimate rating....without respects to how talented your team is...and without the self awareness that he himself has a losing record due to the people around him. He missed that irony, on the issue of irony, and lack of self awareness, the comparison to college and pros is not relevant. The only thing that is relevant is the fact that a QB's winning percentage has almost everything to do with the talent around him. Mayfield applied one standard to DJ and was seemingly unaware the same can be applied to him. Thus the irony.

Acymetric
08-21-2019, 11:37 AM
Should we change the thread title to "Baker Mayfield deserves his own thread" at this point?

budwom
08-21-2019, 12:23 PM
I'm also thinking that once you take Jones out of the Dukies in the NFL thread, there isn't a whole lot left, is there?

Steven43
08-21-2019, 02:30 PM
I am surprised the Browns are keeping them as their starting quarterback. He only has a 7-7 record as a pro- looks pretty mediocre- I mean you need to win and he wins as much as he loses- so...
I was thinking the exact same thing after reading Mayfield’s arrogant and ignorant comments about Daniel Jones.

Steven43
08-21-2019, 02:33 PM
Baker Mayfield is a hothead who runs his mouth a lot, but I don't think it has anything to do with jealousy. With all due respect to DJ, what on Earth would he be jealous of DJ for?

Mayfield very could be jealous of Daniel Jones based on the fact that he (Jones) is part of a much better overall organization with a dramatically better history over the past few decades in a waaaaaay better city in which to live.

Acymetric
08-21-2019, 03:09 PM
https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/27433149/mayfield-reaches-giants-jones-clear-air

Sums up my take on this whole deal:


Mayfield has a history of being open and honest about his opinion on other coaches and players. Last year, he called ex-Browns head coach Hue Jackson "fake," and he said this summer that he didn't like Texas quarterback Sam Ehlinger.
"If I had a problem with someone, I'm pretty sure I've made it very clear I will say I have a problem with someone," Mayfield said.


"That's why I felt like reaching out to Daniel. That's the type of thing that frustrates me because it was taken out of context."

If Mayfield wanted to diss Jones he wouldn't have backed away from it.

The way the GQ article gives the quotes, it is clear there was at least some discussion between the comment about DJ and the comment about "you have to win" (GQ makes no indication as to how much conversation happened in between them, which raises flags for me that they were just trying to stir things up) and entirely plausible that the second comment wasn't actually in reference to DJ.

LasVegas
08-21-2019, 05:53 PM
Mayfield very could be jealous of Daniel Jones based on the fact that he (Jones) is part of a much better overall organization with a dramatically better history over the past few decades in a waaaaaay better city in which to live.

I assume you have lived in Cleveland in order to make that declaration?

Steven43
08-21-2019, 08:20 PM
I assume you have lived in Cleveland in order to make that declaration?

You know what they say about those who assume.

BD80
08-21-2019, 08:41 PM
I assume you have lived in Cleveland in order to make that declaration?

On the whole, I'd rather be in Philly ...

JNort
08-21-2019, 08:42 PM
We're gonna have to disagree on this. It was Mayfield who made winning percentage for QBs the ultimate rating...without respects to how talented your team is...and without the self awareness that he himself has a losing record due to the people around him. He missed that irony, on the issue of irony, and lack of self awareness, the comparison to college and pros is not relevant. The only thing that is relevant is the fact that a QB's winning percentage has almost everything to do with the talent around him. Mayfield applied one standard to DJ and was seemingly unaware the same can be applied to him. Thus the irony.
First off...
Strawman much?

Secondly...
He didn't have a losing record at OU, they were like 34 and 6 or close enough.

Thridly...
I realize that probably wasn't what you were saying but what you implied was beyond absurd.

OldPhiKap
08-21-2019, 08:50 PM
Should we change the thread title to "Baker Mayfield deserves his own thread" at this point?


I'm also thinking that once you take Jones out of the Dukies in the NFL thread, there isn't a whole lot left, is there?

If we start a thread about Baker Mayfield, would folks discuss Daniel Jones there?

JNort
08-21-2019, 08:50 PM
Your reasoning is not at all what Baker's is though...Baker was simply basing this on the fact DJ's W/L record at Duke wasn't great - while his at OUs was. The lack of self awareness, and tone deafness to irony, from Baker, was the main point. Baker's WL record in Cleveland is about what DJ's was, percentage wise, at Duke. Your comment may prove valid in the fullness of time. Baker's reasoning was, and will forever be, flawed.

No, it seems you're the one with the flawed reasoning here. Baker was talking about how much winning should be factored into being drafted at certain points. Therefore anything after being drafted is irrelevant for obvious reasons.

HereBeforeCoachK
08-21-2019, 09:06 PM
Secondly...
He didn't have a losing record at OU, they were like 34 and 6 or close enough.
.

Uh dude, talking about his record at Cleveland - a somewhat similar situation to Jones at Duke - trying to raise a struggling program. That analogy lost on him, and apparently present company as well.

Steven43
08-21-2019, 09:47 PM
If we start a thread about Baker Mayfield, would folks discuss Daniel Jones there?
Yes.

JNort
08-22-2019, 08:24 AM
Uh dude, talking about his record at Cleveland - a somewhat similar situation to Jones at Duke - trying to raise a struggling program. That analogy lost on him, and apparently present company as well.
Because it's not an appropriate analogy. The comparison was on how much winning should be prioritized when evaluating a qb for the draft. You keep wanting to sstrawman that position. Your failure to recognize that isn't the fault of Baker, myself,or anyone else.

Steven43
08-22-2019, 10:12 AM
Because it's not an appropriate analogy. The comparison was on how much winning should be prioritized when evaluating a qb for the draft. You keep wanting to sstrawman that position. Your failure to recognize that isn't the fault of Baker, myself,or anyone else.
I understand your point, and technically you are correct. However, I think HBCK’s point is valid as well. Mayfield shouldn’t be talking about winning as if that defines him when his Cleveland Browns team finished the season under .500 and the teams they beat were mostly mediocre at best.

Sure, his teams at Oklahoma won a lot of games, but the Sooners are loaded with talent every year on both sides of the ball. They could put any pretty good QB behind center and win virtually 90% of their games every season.

Acymetric
08-22-2019, 10:17 AM
I understand your point, and technically you are correct. However, I think HBCK’s point is valid as well. Mayfield shouldn’t be talking about winning, as if that defines him, when his Cleveland Browns team finished the season under .500 and the teams they beat were mostly mediocre at best.

Of course, it isn't even clear that Mayfield was even talking about Jones when he made the comment about winning, so maybe we can just let this go.

Besides, just about everyone was surprised the Giants took Jones at #6. Most people were expecting him to go in the 15-20 range in the lead up to the draft. Some of the people here who are ripping Mayfield were on record on this very same board as being surprised he was even projected to go that high in the pre-draft discussion.

MChambers
08-22-2019, 01:57 PM
If we start a thread about Baker Mayfield, would folks discuss Daniel Jones there?

It would quickly become a basketball playing time discussion.

LasVegas
08-22-2019, 02:11 PM
You know what they say about those who assume.

So that’s a no?

There is always a lot of Cleveland bashing that goes around and 99.9% of these people have never even lived close to the city. I have lived in a few cities in my life and Cleveland is an easy #1 for me.

devildeac
08-22-2019, 02:17 PM
It would quickly become a basketball playing time discussion.

Ha-rumph!!


https://forums.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showthread.php?3840-Ymm-Beer

OldPhiKap
08-22-2019, 02:27 PM
You know what they say about those who assume.

If you haven’t lived there, aren’t you making assumptions about what it is like to do so?

Oh, and Baker Mayfield Baker Mayfield Baker Mayfield in order to stay on topic.

JasonEvans
08-22-2019, 02:32 PM
Anyone know how many cinderblocks tall Baker Mayfield is?

Acymetric
08-22-2019, 02:38 PM
Anyone know how many cinderblocks tall Baker Mayfield is?

I figured out why Baker is jealous...he wishes he were as tall as Daniel! He's at least half a cinder block shorter, maybe a full block it was hard to tell from the camera angle. ;)

devildeac
08-22-2019, 02:44 PM
Anyone know how many cinderblocks tall Baker Mayfield is?

US, Ireland/UK or Australia/NZ/Canada cinder blocks, aka concrete masonry units?

"In the US, CMU blocks are nominally 16 in (410 mm) wide and 8 in (200 mm) long. Their actual dimensions are their nominal dimensions, minus 3⁄8 inch (9.5 mm) any direction (to allow for mortar joints regardless of their orientation as laid). In Ireland and the UK, blocks are usually 440 mm × 215 mm × 100 mm (17.3 in × 8.5 in × 3.9 in) excluding mortar joints. In Australia, New Zealand and Canada, blocks are usually 390 mm × 190 mm × 190 mm (15.4 in × 7.5 in × 7.5 in) excluding mortar joints."

;)

Acymetric
08-22-2019, 02:49 PM
US, Ireland/UK or Australia/NZ/Canada cinder blocks, aka concrete masonry units?

"In the US, CMU blocks are nominally 16 in (410 mm) wide and 8 in (200 mm) long. Their actual dimensions are their nominal dimensions, minus 3⁄8 inch (9.5 mm) any direction (to allow for mortar joints regardless of their orientation as laid). In Ireland and the UK, blocks are usually 440 mm × 215 mm × 100 mm (17.3 in × 8.5 in × 3.9 in) excluding mortar joints. In Australia, New Zealand and Canada, blocks are usually 390 mm × 190 mm × 190 mm (15.4 in × 7.5 in × 7.5 in) excluding mortar joints."

;)

Which way are we orienting the blocks?

Indoor66
08-22-2019, 02:56 PM
I vote corner to corner to really confuse the issue.

devildeac
08-22-2019, 02:57 PM
Which way are we orienting the blocks?

Howzabout we roll with the traditional method (paint is optional):

9716

;)

OldPhiKap
08-22-2019, 03:01 PM
I figured out why Baker is jealous...he wishes he were as tall as Daniel! He's at least half a cinder block shorter, maybe a full block it was hard to tell from the camera angle. ;)

Cinder blocks are bigger in New York. Because everything is.

Steven43
08-22-2019, 03:11 PM
If you haven’t lived there, aren’t you making assumptions about what it is like to do so?

Oh, and Baker Mayfield Baker Mayfield Baker Mayfield in order to stay on topic.

Are we seriously debating the merits of living in New York City versus living in Cleveland?

OldPhiKap
08-22-2019, 03:23 PM
Are we seriously debating the merits of living in New York City versus living in Cleveland?

No. I was wondering why you would slander living in a place that you’ve never lived, and I was pointing out the irony of you slapping someone for assuming things when you yourself did the same thing.

And hate to break this to you, but there are plenty of folks that would never want to live in NYC despite the “merits” being as you measure them. I am sure there are plenty of folks who love living in Cleveland and prefer it to the drawbacks of NYC.

I lived in the NYC area, and moved away. Best decision of my life. YMMV obviously.

Indoor66
08-22-2019, 03:42 PM
I don't want to live in either, what does that say about me?

JasonEvans
08-22-2019, 03:43 PM
Cinder blocks are bigger in New York. Because everything is.
Not all cinder blocks are made alike.

https://media.blogto.com/articles/20190610-concrete.jpg?w=2048&cmd=resize_then_crop&height=1365&quality=70

Bob Green
08-22-2019, 04:02 PM
Jamison Crowder weighs in:

https://www.nj.com/jets/2019/08/did-dukes-shoddy-wrs-really-hurt-giants-daniel-jones-dont-tell-that-to-jets-jamison-crowder.html


“Man, they had some really good guys,” Crowder said. “Some of those guys are getting a shot now in the league – T.J. Rahming (with the Dolphins), and Johnathan Lloyd, he’s with the Rams, getting an opportunity. They had a couple of younger guys who are trying to develop. Yeah, it was a little bit of a knock on my guys.”

Steven43
08-22-2019, 04:51 PM
No. I was wondering why you would slander living in a place that you’ve never lived, and I was pointing out the irony of you slapping someone for assuming things when you yourself did the same thing.

And hate to break this to you, but there are plenty of folks that would never want to live in NYC despite the “merits” being as you measure them. I am sure there are plenty of folks who love living in Cleveland and prefer it to the drawbacks of NYC.

I lived in the NYC area, and moved away. Best decision of my life. YMMV obviously.

You think 98% of DBR posters wouldn’t rather live in New York City over Cleveland if they had to choose between the two? This is just silly.

LasVegas
08-22-2019, 04:57 PM
You think 98% of DBR posters wouldn’t rather live in New York City over Cleveland if they had to choose between the two? This is just silly.

You said Jones was basically lucky because NYC was a way better city. Nothing about where what percent of posters want to live, which is starting to create a straw man.

I’ll defend The Land until I die against people who have never lived there. Heck, most have never even visited!

budwom
08-22-2019, 05:08 PM
^ I don't want to get involved in a NYC vs Cleveland argument, but will note that the Giants don't play in NYC and I would bet Jones won't live there either...I see life in the NJ burbs for Daniel...

MartyClark
08-22-2019, 05:20 PM
You think 98% of DBR posters wouldn’t rather live in New York City over Cleveland if they had to choose between the two? This is just silly.

I wonder how many players on the Giants live in New Jersey rather than N.Y.C. It's amusing that NYC has no professional football teams and New Jersey has two.

Somewhat more seriously, NYC is a tough place to live. Even on an NFL salary, things are expensive, crowded and inconvenient. From my perspective, 68 year old attorney originally from Chicago, in Denver the past 35 years, I'd pick Cleveland and visit New York on occasion.

For younger players, I suspect it depends on their personality and interests. Not all of these guys are club guys and, I suspect, most of them don't go to the wonderful museums, opera, and classical music performances.

No big deal either way but I think a lot of DBR posters appreciate a blue collar town where the river no longer catches on fire.

OldPhiKap
08-22-2019, 05:23 PM
You think 98% of DBR posters wouldn’t rather live in New York City over Cleveland if they had to choose between the two? This is just silly.

That was not the point of my post, nor your original argument. I know you are smart enough to know that though, so not sure why you are perpetuating this argument.

Anyways, back to Baker Mayfield . . . .

Acymetric
08-22-2019, 08:10 PM
Mayfield won't play until tomorrow, but in the meantime...

Jones continues to have some ball security problems, but the Giants recovered the fumble and Jones hung tough in the pocket to deliver the ball to the goal-line for an easy punch-in TD on the following play.

OldPhiKap
08-22-2019, 08:16 PM
Mayfield won't play until tomorrow, but in the meantime...

Jones continues to have some ball security problems, but the Giants recovered the fumble and Jones hung tough in the pocket to deliver the ball to the goal-line for an easy punch-in TD on the following play.

Games not on here. What happened on the fumble?

Acymetric
08-22-2019, 08:22 PM
Games not on here. What happened on the fumble?

It wasn't exactly his fault, a guy (defensive end?) came through untouched and just nailed him, but 3rd one in 2 games suggests he needs to hold the ball a little better.

Its not on here either ;)

JasonEvans
08-22-2019, 08:31 PM
DJ 9-11 for 141 yards in the first half. A passer rating of 118.8. The fumbles are a concern, for sure, but he has had a really, really impressive preseason. If the Giants struggle at all with Manning, the cries for Jones to play are going to be deafening.

Native
08-22-2019, 08:37 PM
DJ 9-11 for 141 yards in the first half. A passer rating of 118.8. The fumbles are a concern, for sure, but he has had a really, really impressive preseason. If the Giants struggle at all with Manning, the cries for Jones to play are going to be deafening.

Agree that ball security is the biggest visible question mark thus far, but it’s hard to blame Daniel for giving it up tonight mid-throwing motion when both sides of the line imploded and he got hit from the blind side.

He’s showing all you could ask for out of the sixth pick in the draft right now. I just hope the Giants wait until he’s ready to play him in the regular season, whether that’s this year or next. The good news is that the Giants fan base seems to really like the pick now and have his back for the time being.

jwillfan
08-22-2019, 08:41 PM
DJ 9-11 for 141 yards in the first half. A passer rating of 118.8. The fumbles are a concern, for sure, but he has had a really, really impressive preseason. If the Giants struggle at all with Manning, the cries for Jones to play are going to be deafening.

Nice bomb:
https://twitter.com/Giants/status/1164690804515852289

OldPhiKap
08-22-2019, 08:59 PM
Nice bomb:
https://twitter.com/Giants/status/1164690804515852289

And

https://twitter.com/giants/status/1164692045727850496?s=21

Acymetric
08-22-2019, 09:14 PM
And

https://twitter.com/giants/status/1164692045727850496?s=21

From the replies to that one:

https://twitter.com/dman_wwe/status/1164692757379801089
(https://twitter.com/dman_wwe/status/1164692757379801089)
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ECnR4KXXkAAkEpg.jpg

bundabergdevil
08-22-2019, 09:21 PM
From the replies to that one:

https://twitter.com/dman_wwe/status/1164692757379801089
(https://twitter.com/dman_wwe/status/1164692757379801089)
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ECnR4KXXkAAkEpg.jpg

Wish someone would do that for me when I finished a particularly good powerpoint presentation. Sigh...

martydoesntfoul
08-23-2019, 01:21 AM
#DannyDimes is trending...

OldPhiKap
08-23-2019, 03:29 AM
#DannyDimes is trending...

I saw that #TheMan was a top trend, but it turns out to be about TSwift dropping new music.

BD80
08-23-2019, 07:16 AM
I saw that #TheMan was a top trend, but it turns out to be about TSwift dropping new music.

Tom Swift is "the Man?" Wow, that takes me back 50 years or so. Don't remember him being interested in music.

OldPhiKap
08-23-2019, 07:47 AM
Tom Swift is "the Man?" Wow, that takes me back 50 years or so. Don't remember him being interested in music.

You never read “Tom Swift and his Beef With Kanye?”

DDoc74
08-23-2019, 08:02 AM
You never read “Tom Swift and his Beef With Kanye?”

“Throw the ball where no one else can get it” said Tom accurately.

duke74
08-23-2019, 08:07 AM
Back to DJ...

The hype is growing. Even with Eli having a good preseason (and looking spry, based on his lead blocking on one play last night).

https://nypost.com/2019/08/23/daniel-jones-showing-giants-hes-ready-to-play-now/?utm_campaign=iosapp&utm_source=pasteboard_app

Reilly
08-23-2019, 08:23 AM
QBs taken in the first 10 picks over the last 25 drafts (1995-2019), ranked by CarAV (weighted career approximate value), per www.sports-reference.com

Player – Year – Draft Position – CarAV

PManning 1998-1 177
Rivers 2004-4 140
Ryan 2008-3 129
EManning 2004-1 117
Palmer 2003-1 108
McNabb 1999-2 107
Newton 2011-1 103
McNair 1995-3 100
-----------------------------
Smith 2005-1 96
Vick 2001-1 93
Stafford 2009-1 91
-----------------------------
Collins 1995-5 81
-----------------------------
Luck 2012-1 71
-----------------------------
Tannehill 2012-8 54
-----------------------------
Bradford 2010-1 44
Bortles 2014-3 44
Carr 2002-1 44
Winston 2015-1 41
Mariota 2015-2 40
-----------------------------
Griffin III 2012-2 35
Sanchez 2009-5 34
Young 2006-3 33
Leftwich 2003-7 33
Wentz 2016-2 32
Goff 2016-1 30
Harrington 2002-3 30
Couch 1999-1 30
-----------------------------
Mahomes 2017-10 23
Trubisky 2017-2 20
-----------------------------
Gabbart 2011-10 16
Locker 2011-8 15
Leinart 2006-10 12
Mayfield 2018-1 10
-----------------------------
Darnold 2018-3 7
Allen 2018-7 6
Russell 2007-1 6
Rosen 2018-10 2
Smith 1999-3 1
Leaf 1998-2 1
-----------------------------
Murray 2019-1 0
DJ 2019-6 0

JNort
08-23-2019, 08:33 AM
QBs taken in the first 10 picks over the last 25 drafts (1995-2019), ranked by CarAV (weighted career approximate value), per www.sports-reference.com

Player – Year – Draft Position – CarAV

PManning 1998-1 177
Rivers 2004-4 140
Ryan 2008-3 129
EManning 2004-1 117
Palmer 2003-1 108
McNabb 1999-2 107
Newton 2011-1 103
McNair 1995-3 100
-----------------------------
Smith 2005-1 96
Vick 2001-1 93
Stafford 2009-1 91
-----------------------------
Collins 1995-5 81
-----------------------------
Luck 2012-1 71
-----------------------------
Tannehill 2012-8 54
-----------------------------
Bradford 2010-1 44
Bortles 2014-3 44
Carr 2002-1 44
Winston 2015-1 41
Mariota 2015-2 40
-----------------------------
Griffin III 2012-2 35
Sanchez 2009-5 34
Young 2006-3 33
Leftwich 2003-7 33
Wentz 2016-2 32
Goff 2016-1 30
Harrington 2002-3 30
Couch 1999-1 30
-----------------------------
Mahomes 2017-10 23
Trubisky 2017-2 20
-----------------------------
Gabbart 2011-10 16
Locker 2011-8 15
Leinart 2006-10 12
Mayfield 2018-1 10
-----------------------------
Darnold 2018-3 7
Allen 2018-7 6
Russell 2007-1 6
Rosen 2018-10 2
Smith 1999-3 1
Leaf 1998-2 1
-----------------------------
Murray 2019-1 0
DJ 2019-6 0

Oof i can tell that is a very flawed system just by how high Eli is ranked. Love him and always thought he gets too much hate but he shouldn't even be mentioned in a tier with those others.

bundabergdevil
08-23-2019, 09:12 AM
Oof i can tell that is a very flawed system just by how high Eli is ranked. Love him and always thought he gets too much hate but he shouldn't even be mentioned in a tier with those others.

Obviously the young QBs who don't have a great body of work are discounted and place lower but who below him would you place higher? Not saying I disagree but I'm not sure there's a surefire argument for any of the QBs below him to jump ahead...

Reilly
08-23-2019, 09:13 AM
I don't know what goes into the numerical value. The ordering seems to roughly track the older QB ratings on sports-reference.com:

Peyton 96.5
Rivers 95.6
Ryan 94.9
------------------
Palmer 87.9
Newton 86.4
McNabb 85.6
Eli 84.1
McNair 82.8

brevity
08-23-2019, 09:28 AM
Tom Swift is "the Man?" Wow, that takes me back 50 years or so. Don't remember him being interested in music.


“Throw the ball where no one else can get it” said Tom accurately.

“If there were an NFL Draft Lottery, the Jets would always lose it,” said Tom, unfortunately.

I always thought “Tom Swiftie” should have been the designated couple nickname when Taylor Swift dated Tom Hiddleston.

CameronBornAndBred
08-23-2019, 09:36 AM
PManning 1998-1 177
Rivers 2004-4 140
Ryan 2008-3 129
EManning 2004-1 117
Palmer 2003-1 108
McNabb 1999-2 107
Newton 2011-1 103
McNair 1995-3 100

Oof i can tell that is a very flawed system just by how high Eli is ranked. Love him and always thought he gets too much hate but he shouldn't even be mentioned in a tier with those others.

Well, out of that list, only two of those guys have won a Super Bowl (twice for Eli) and both have the last name Manning. Coupled along with his longevity and multiple pro bowls, I'd say he belongs in that tier pretty easily.

JNort
08-23-2019, 10:45 AM
Obviously the young QBs who don't have a great body of work are discounted and place lower but who below him would you place higher? Not saying I disagree but I'm not sure there's a surefire argument for any of the QBs below him to jump ahead...



I'd say easily
Palmer
McNabb
Newton
McNair
Smith
Vick
Stafford
Luck

and still young but looks like they are already better than Eli at any point in his career

Wentz
Goff
Mahomes
Baker

and too early to really tell but I would bet on

Darnold
Trubisky

I could even see an argument for

Winston

JNort
08-23-2019, 10:50 AM
Well, out of that list, only two of those guys have won a Super Bowl (twice for Eli) and both have the last name Manning. Coupled along with his longevity and multiple pro bowls, I'd say he belongs in that tier pretty easily.
Guess it depends on what your criteria is. I like Eli but talent wise he isn't near those guys. I made a list earlier this year to prove to a Cam hater that Cam is indeed elite based on his stats alone. What surprised me while making the list was just how bad Eli really was compared to the other qbs in the last 15 years or so (Been awhile since I checked but he averages more turnovers than tds or close to it). Those superbowls in his case happened because their defense carried them in the playoffs combined with a solid run game and Eli playing at a slightly above average level for a 3 or 4 game stretch.

Acymetric
08-23-2019, 11:06 AM
I'd say easily
Palmer
McNabb
Newton
McNair
Smith
Vick
Stafford
Luck

and still young but looks like they are already better than Eli at any point in his career

Wentz
Goff
Mahomes
Baker

and too early to really tell but I would bet on

Darnold
Trubisky

I could even see an argument for

Winston

Well this is a cumulative career ranking so obviously the guys who have only played 1-3 seasons are going to be low ranked. Some of those guys will surpass Eli as they extend their careers, others won't.

I'm not sure how you could argue that any of those guys have more accomplished careers than Eli which is what this is measuring (this is different than saying that they were better at their peak). Luck has basically done nothing in the league. Alex Smith is probably close but has accomplished much less. Regardless, I'm not sure how you say that McNabb or Palmer are "easily" better than Eli. There's a conversation to be had there, but easily?

Trubisky is going to flame out, book it.

InSpades
08-23-2019, 12:37 PM
Guess it depends on what your criteria is. I like Eli but talent wise he isn't near those guys. I made a list earlier this year to prove to a Cam hater that Cam is indeed elite based on his stats alone. What surprised me while making the list was just how bad Eli really was compared to the other qbs in the last 15 years or so (Been awhile since I checked but he averages more turnovers than tds or close to it). Those superbowls in his case happened because their defense carried them in the playoffs combined with a solid run game and Eli playing at a slightly above average level for a 3 or 4 game stretch.

Eli is going to waltz into the Hall of Fame. Most of those guys are going to have to buy a ticket (Palmer, McNair, McNabb, Stafford, etc.). A lot of that is his 2 Super Bowl wins (and MVPs) but he was great in those playoffs.

Back on topic... as a huge Giants fan I am super excited about what I've seen so far from Daniel Jones. I'm sure Eli is going to start the year and that's probably for the best but DJ is going to see some play this year and the team should be his starting next season. They can't bring Eli back unless he wants to take a massive pay cut.

CameronBornAndBred
08-23-2019, 01:05 PM
This is pretty funny.
"The Saddest Eli Manning Photo Ever Taken"

https://www.yahoo.com/news/saddest-eli-manning-picture-ever-160138931.html

JasonEvans
08-23-2019, 03:49 PM
This is pretty funny.
"The Saddest Eli Manning Photo Ever Taken"

https://www.yahoo.com/news/saddest-eli-manning-picture-ever-160138931.html

Beyond awesome...
https://s.yimg.com/uu/api/res/1.2/Kxf1G8udXvv2sYfQ.RE65g--~B/aD03NzQ7dz0xMDE4O3NtPTE7YXBwaWQ9eXRhY2h5b24-/https://media.zenfs.com/en/the_loop_130/44569ad087bf374da42b40acbbc02eff

-Jason "I suspect Eli isn't all that sad... he's probably sorta ready for someone else to take the reins. I mean, how many more blindside hits does he want to take?" Evans

JasonEvans
08-23-2019, 03:52 PM
Eli is going to waltz into the Hall of Fame. Most of those guys are going to have to buy a ticket (Palmer, McNair, McNabb, Stafford, etc.). A lot of that is his 2 Super Bowl wins (and MVPs) but he was great in those playoffs.

Yeah, we are talking about a guy who is a 4 time Pro Bowlers with 2 rings and 2 Super Bowl MVPs on his shelf. I mean, he ain't one of the all-time greats, but he's a very, very good QB and one that Giant fans will look back upon fondly for many, many years. Dude is 38... I think some recency bias is leading to the negative feelings about him. He was probably top 10 in the league for many years earlier in his career.

Acymetric
08-23-2019, 04:00 PM
Yeah, we are talking about a guy who is a 4 time Pro Bowlers with 2 rings and 2 Super Bowl MVPs on his shelf. I mean, he ain't one of the all-time greats, but he's a very, very good QB and one that Giant fans will look back upon fondly for many, many years. Dude is 38... I think some recency bias is leading to the negative feelings about him. He was probably top 10 in the league for many years earlier in his career.

In addition to the recency bias, people have always undervalued him as a QB because they didn't like his demeanor (along with perhaps some Manning fatigue due to his brother). People here are talking about him like he's Joe Flacco or Jay freaking Cutler or something.

nmduke2001
08-23-2019, 05:02 PM
In addition to the recency bias, people have always undervalued him as a QB because they didn't like his demeanor (along with perhaps some Manning fatigue due to his brother). People here are talking about him like he's Joe Flacco or Jay freaking Cutler or something.

Sure he had two super bowls, but he rode a red hot pass rush to those titles. Absent the rings, I don't think he gets mentioned in the HOF discussion.

GGLC
08-23-2019, 05:41 PM
Yeah, we are talking about a guy who is a 4 time Pro Bowlers with 2 rings and 2 Super Bowl MVPs on his shelf. I mean, he ain't one of the all-time greats, but he's a very, very good QB and one that Giant fans will look back upon fondly for many, many years. Dude is 38... I think some recency bias is leading to the negative feelings about him. He was probably top 10 in the league for many years earlier in his career.

Actually, he's had a lot of pretty stinky seasons throughout his career. His first three full seasons (2005-07), he posted TD/INT ratios of 24/17, 24/18, and 23/20 respectively. Three seasons later he threw 25 (!) interceptions to go along with 31 touchdowns. Only once has he ever thrown fewer than 14 interceptions over a full season. If anything, his best statistical seasons have come towards the middle to tail-end of his career, with 2014 and 2015 looking like pinnacles.

But count the rings, it's true.

If Kyle Williams had been able to hold on to either of two punts in the 2011 NFC championship game, those two rings would be one.

And if David Tyree's helmet had been slightly slicker, that one ring would be zero.

Had both those things happened and everything else stayed the same, would that take Eli from Canton lock to the outside looking in?

GGLC
08-23-2019, 05:46 PM
P.S. 25 interceptions isn't even his career high (!!).

texasdevil06
08-23-2019, 05:47 PM
Via twitter:

NFL Research
@NFLResearch
.
@Daniel_Jones10
has been a giant among men this preseason.

The rookie QB is up to an 83.3 comp pct, 12.3 yds/att, and a 140.1 passer rating.

Those numbers are the highest in a rookie preseason since at least 2006 (min. 30 attempts).
.
.

https://twitter.com/NFLResearch/status/1164963897670946816

Bob Green
08-23-2019, 05:52 PM
Daniel Jones highlights from last night's game against the Bengals:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9z4coNOqSHk

He throws several really nice passes.

nmduke2001
08-23-2019, 06:16 PM
If Daniel has a good/great couple of years, you would have to think that Cut would be able to recruit a high ranking Qb, right? He would have both Mannings and a high performing current NFLer. Shouldn't they be knocking down his door if they were a NFL hopefuls?

Bob Green
08-23-2019, 08:09 PM
NFL analyst and Duke alum Brian Baldinger (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brian_Baldinger) breaks down Daniel Jones' performance:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Hal1tcIrAw

texasdevil06
08-23-2019, 08:44 PM
Baker Mayfield against the TB Bucs is currently 7 for 19 midway through the 2nd Q. Browns still lead 9-0 0n 3 field goals. Their defense putting a lot of pressure on Jameis Winston who's been very ineffective.

AustinDevil
08-23-2019, 08:45 PM
If Daniel has a good/great couple of years, you would have to think that Cut would be able to recruit a high ranking Qb, right? He would have both Mannings and a high performing current NFLer. Shouldn't they be knocking down his door if they were a NFL hopefuls?

Yes.

AGDukesky
08-23-2019, 10:13 PM
P.S. 25 interceptions isn't even his career high (!!).

My biggest gripe about Eli is that he caused the need for his teams to make those comebacks/late game heroics. My joke as a Cowboys fan was that a quarterback that played like Romo for 3 quarters and Eli in the 4th would be one of the best quarterbacks ever- switch that and you have the worst QB ever.

Eli is overrated because of his Super Bowls masking a lot of bad play for much of those seasons. Still I understand why he will eventually be in the hall of fame. Also, the Giants defense was the real MVP at least one of those Super Bowls...

HereBeforeCoachK
08-24-2019, 12:16 AM
Yes.

Perhaps, but they won't....but if I explain why, I'll get a mod infraction.

JetpackJesus
08-24-2019, 02:16 AM
My biggest gripe about Eli is that he caused the need for his teams to make those comebacks/late game heroics. My joke as a Cowboys fan was that a quarterback that played like Romo for 3 quarters and Eli in the 4th would be one of the best quarterbacks ever- switch that and you have the worst QB ever.

Eli is overrated because of his Super Bowls masking a lot of bad play for much of those seasons. Still I understand why he will eventually be in the hall of fame. Also, the Giants defense was the real MVP at least one of those Super Bowls...

Tom Brady and Bill Belichick have two fewer Super Bowls than they otherwise would have--and 0 perfect seasons--because of Eli Manning and the Giants. Eli is a hero. The fact that he isn't a very good QB is irrelevant as far as I'm concerned.

JNort
08-24-2019, 04:53 AM
Actually, he's had a lot of pretty stinky seasons throughout his career. His first three full seasons (2005-07), he posted TD/INT ratios of 24/17, 24/18, and 23/20 respectively. Three seasons later he threw 25 (!) interceptions to go along with 31 touchdowns. Only once has he ever thrown fewer than 14 interceptions over a full season. If anything, his best statistical seasons have come towards the middle to tail-end of his career, with 2014 and 2015 looking like pinnacles.

But count the rings, it's true.

If Kyle Williams had been able to hold on to either of two punts in the 2011 NFC championship game, those two rings would be one.

And if David Tyree's helmet had been slightly slicker, that one ring would be zero.

Had both those things happened and everything else stayed the same, would that take Eli from Canton lock to the outside looking in?
More like he wouldnt even be looking that direction.

bundabergdevil
08-24-2019, 05:28 AM
Tom Brady and Bill Belichick have two fewer Super Bowls than they otherwise would have--and 0 perfect seasons--because of Eli Manning and the Giants. Eli is a hero. The fact that he isn't a very good QB is irrelevant as far as I'm concerned.

You could lead a congregation, made me say 'Amen'.

uh_no
08-24-2019, 10:24 AM
Tom Brady and Bill Belichick have two fewer Super Bowls than they otherwise would have--and 0 perfect seasons--because of Eli Manning and the Giants. Eli is a hero. The fact that he isn't a very good QB is irrelevant as far as I'm concerned.

HOF worthy. him and Tyree. tear down the statue of liberty and put up tom coughlin.

Acymetric
08-24-2019, 09:34 PM
I'd say easily
Palmer
McNabb
Newton
McNair
Smith
Vick
Stafford
Luck

and still young but looks like they are already better than Eli at any point in his career

Wentz
Goff
Mahomes
Baker

and too early to really tell but I would bet on

Darnold
Trubisky

I could even see an argument for

Winston

Anyone feel like doubling down on Luck having a better career than Eli?

GGLC
08-24-2019, 09:49 PM
Anyone feel like doubling down on Luck having a better career than Eli?

Yup, I will.

BD80
08-24-2019, 09:49 PM
Anyone feel like doubling down on Luck having a better career than Eli?

It seems his name is else than apt.

Acymetric
08-24-2019, 09:56 PM
It seems his name is else than apt.

Indeed. I think being perpetually in the rehab process finally got to him.

GGLC
08-24-2019, 10:20 PM
What do you mean by better career?

GGLC
08-24-2019, 10:26 PM
Haha I didn't see the news.

I will leave my other two inapt texts up for posterity.

Acymetric
08-24-2019, 10:30 PM
What do you mean by better career?

Most accomplished? If you look at the various passer rating stats he compares pretty favorable with Luck as well.

Regardless, mostly I was referring to the fact that Luck's career is over, so whatever you think of him he won't be adding to his resume.

Acymetric
08-24-2019, 10:31 PM
Haha I didn't see the news.

I will leave my other two inapt texts up for posterity.

I was kind of baiting people into it ;)

Crazy news for sure.

Tazman10
08-24-2019, 11:07 PM
Didn’t the Colts jolt a good QB for this guy? How many Superbowls did he win? The rich owners are idiots. This is exactly why college sports is so much better than the pros.

arnie
08-25-2019, 07:07 AM
Didn’t the Colts jolt a good QB for this guy? How many Superbowls did he win? The rich owners are idiots. This is exactly why college sports is so much better than the pros.

Daniel Snyder proves your theory

HereBeforeCoachK
08-25-2019, 07:24 AM
Didn’t the Colts jolt a good QB for this guy? How many Superbowls did he win? The rich owners are idiots. This is exactly why college sports is so much better than the pros.

The rich owners are idiots line is a bit much....NO ONE saw this coming, no other players, no GM, no one. And speaking of GMs, these decisions are largely made by GMs and not owners (Skins and Cowboys notwithstanding...).

Steven43
08-25-2019, 12:34 PM
Didn’t the Colts jolt a good QB for this guy? How many Superbowls did he win? The rich owners are idiots. This is exactly why college sports is so much better than the pros.

Could you please explain in greater detail what you’re trying to say?

budwom
08-25-2019, 12:52 PM
Many owners may or may not be idiots, but they have created a gargantuan money making machine...even before considering straight profit and loss (hard to find for almost all of them) the appreciation of their franchises has been astronomical.
The average value of an NFL franchise is estimated to be about $2.5 billion, and most current owners paid only a tiny fraction of that. And even if they perpetually stink (I'm looking at you, politically incorrect Redskins) they still make money hand over fist.

The Packers are publicly owned (uniquely I believe) so we get to see their financial statements...in 2017 they made a profit of $34 million (including, evidently, a $255 million payment (revenue) from the league, a 32 way split of TV revenues, etc)...they also say they have a "reserve fund" of $380 million.

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/packers-financials-show-that-nfl-made-billions-despite-national-anthem-controversy/

Acymetric
08-25-2019, 01:08 PM
Could you please explain in greater detail what you’re trying to say?

Without commenting on the merits, I think he's saying that they booted Peyton Manning out of town (who went on to win a superbowl afterwards) to bring in Luck.

texasdevil06
08-25-2019, 01:27 PM
Giants coach Pat Shurmur just said at his presser that Eli Manning has done enough to get ready for the season and will not play in the preseason finale. He also stated that Daniel Jones will start Thursday night against the Patriots in Foxborough.

sagegrouse
08-25-2019, 01:28 PM
Without commenting on the merits, I think he's saying that they booted Peyton Manning out of town (who went on to win a superbowl afterwards) to bring in Luck.

Luck arrived in 2012, as Peyton departed for the Broncos. Peyton had missed the entire 2011 season, which may have been a factor in the team's decision.

brlftz
08-25-2019, 02:39 PM
The Packers are publicly owned (uniquely I believe) so we get to see their financial statements...in 2017 they made a profit of $34 million (including, evidently, a $255 million payment (revenue) from the league, a 32 way split of TV revenues, etc)...they also say they have a "reserve fund" of $380 million.

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/packers-financials-show-that-nfl-made-billions-despite-national-anthem-controversy/

I’ve always wondered where that profit goes. The shares don’t pay anything out, so who gets the money?

budwom
08-25-2019, 04:02 PM
I’ve always wondered where that profit goes. The shares don’t pay anything out, so who gets the money?

evidently it goes into the very large reserve fund...according to Wikipedia, there are no dividends, and unlike most common stock, the owners have no equity...all stockholders get are voting rights and an invitation to the annual meeting.
Were it a for profit corporation, I imagine they'd have to pay out a bunch of the reserve fund (kind of like retained earnings) to stockholders so the IRS could get its chunk.

ncexnyc
08-25-2019, 05:09 PM
Eli Manning with his two Super Bowl rings laughs at the haters. The guy has always been a class act playing in one of the hardest media markets around. I don't think you'll find many Giants fans who honestly would consider Eli to be an elite QB, but the guy has been very good throughout his career.

For those of you who say his ticket to the HoF would only be punched by his Super Bowl wins, I wonder if you feel the same way about Kirby Puckett and his election to the Baseball HoF? I'm not sure Puckett's numbers warrant him being in the HoF, but his play in the World Series certainly helped.

Anyone want to name a great HoF worthy offensive player during Eli's time with the Giants? Don't all speak up at once. And if you're still hating on Eli do yourself a favor and check out the stats for most 4th quarter comebacks and see where Eli ranks. The guy is clutch.

mattman91
08-25-2019, 05:56 PM
Eli Manning with his two Super Bowl rings laughs at the haters. The guy has always been a class act playing in one of the hardest media markets around. I don't think you'll find many Giants fans who honestly would consider Eli to be an elite QB, but the guy has been very good throughout his career.

For those of you who say his ticket to the HoF would only be punched by his Super Bowl wins, I wonder if you feel the same way about Kirby Puckett and his election to the Baseball HoF? I'm not sure Puckett's numbers warrant him being in the HoF, but his play in the World Series certainly helped.

Anyone want to name a great HoF worthy offensive player during Eli's time with the Giants? Don't all speak up at once. And if you're still hating on Eli do yourself a favor and check out the stats for most 4th quarter comebacks and see where Eli ranks. The guy is clutch.

OBJ?

bundabergdevil
08-25-2019, 08:37 PM
OBJ?

Victor Cruz and Tiki Barber might have arguments for HOF but they were pretty good weapons. Amani Toomer and guys like Hakeem Nicks were pretty good but not HOF...

CDu
08-25-2019, 09:25 PM
Eli Manning with his two Super Bowl rings laughs at the haters. The guy has always been a class act playing in one of the hardest media markets around. I don't think you'll find many Giants fans who honestly would consider Eli to be an elite QB, but the guy has been very good throughout his career.

For those of you who say his ticket to the HoF would only be punched by his Super Bowl wins, I wonder if you feel the same way about Kirby Puckett and his election to the Baseball HoF? I'm not sure Puckett's numbers warrant him being in the HoF, but his play in the World Series certainly helped.

Anyone want to name a great HoF worthy offensive player during Eli's time with the Giants? Don't all speak up at once. And if you're still hating on Eli do yourself a favor and check out the stats for most 4th quarter comebacks and see where Eli ranks. The guy is clutch.

Manning is in no way comparable to Puckett. Puckett was having a HoF career until a fastball to the face caused an eye injury that cost him his vision in one eye. At the time he was producing a 130 OPS+ season at 35, but forced to retire. Had he not retired, he probably gets to the 3,000 hit club at around age 40.

Manning was a mediocre QB whose teams made two great runs to titles (helped in large part by a phenomenal defense).

Aside from each winning two championships, Puckett’s career was much more distinguished.

As for Hall of Fame teammates, that seems a pretty high bar, no? There aren’t THAT many guys in the Hall of Fame period. It isn’t like Brady or Brees have relied on Hall of Fame teammates; Brady has had just one HoF caliber weapon at his disposal for more than a season. Bree’s has arguably had none. As for Manning, Barber was great but retired early. OBJ was great. Victor Cruz was really good until he got hurt. Jacobs and Bradshaw were a terrific duo for a few years. Nicks and Toomer each gave a few nice seasons. Burress had a year or so. Now Engram and Barkley. There have only been a few years when Manning didn’t have great weapons at his disposal.

SoCalDukeFan
08-25-2019, 09:31 PM
HOF worthy. him and Tyree. tear down the statue of liberty and put up tom coughlin.

First of all Eli gets into the HOF purely by being the MVP of two Super Bowl wins over the Patriots.

But the greatest Tom Couglin moment was when the Eagles played the Giants. Giants have the lead as game is running out. Giants win they are in the playoffs. Punter is instructed to not kick it to DeSean.
Jackson. Punter kicks it to DeSean, he runs it back for a TD and runs out the clock in the process. Coughlin comes on the field and almost loses it screaming at the punter.


SoCal

HereBeforeCoachK
08-26-2019, 07:37 AM
Manning was a mediocre QB whose teams made two great runs to titles (helped in large part by a phenomenal defense).

Aside from each winning two championships, Puckett’s career was much more distinguished.
.

This is my take too. Eil was never ever feared...I dare say Patrick Mahomes has already struck more fear into defensive film sessions than Eil ever did. Eli has had a lot of mediocre seasons. I have no problem with him being in the HOF and with 2 Super Bowl rings, he probably will be - and while I don't share the glee over beating the Patriots - I have no problem with that either. But let's not pretend that equals all time greatness. If Super Bow rings were the sole measure of greatness, Eil would be up there with Peyton in that regard. Is anyone making that assertion? (and no, that doesn't make me a hater...)

ncexnyc
08-26-2019, 07:51 PM
Manning is in no way comparable to Puckett. Puckett was having a HoF career until a fastball to the face caused an eye injury that cost him his vision in one eye. At the time he was producing a 130 OPS+ season at 35, but forced to retire. Had he not retired, he probably gets to the 3,000 hit club at around age 40..

The key word in all of this is, "was." I can say the same thing about Don Mattingly and how his career was curtailed by the back injury that robbed him of his power as a quick glance shows both players had near exact stats. My contention is that those two World Series helped put Puckett over the top, much the same way that Eli's two Super Bowl rings might eventually get him into the HoF.

GGLC
08-26-2019, 11:02 PM
The difference is that without those rings Eli is merely an average to above average quarterback.

CDu
08-27-2019, 01:52 AM
The key word in all of this is, "was." I can say the same thing about Don Mattingly and how his career was curtailed by the back injury that robbed him of his power as a quick glance shows both players had near exact stats. My contention is that those two World Series helped put Puckett over the top, much the same way that Eli's two Super Bowl rings might eventually get him into the HoF.


The difference is that without those rings Eli is merely an average to above average quarterback.

Exactly. Puckett was on a HoF trajectory WITHOUT the championships until he got hurt ending his career. Manning never was remotely in that discussion. The two have very little in common other than that they were on two title teams.

The Mattingly comp falls short in this regard: Puckett had a decade of great play and then his career was ended. Mattingly had 3-4 uber-elite years, a few very good then about 5-6 mediocre years. So in aggregate, Mattingly’s numbers don’t match up with Puckett’s, even ignoring the titles.

If Mattingly had gotten 3-4 more great years in before injuries took their toll, he probably gets in too. Or at least is knocking on the door.

CameronBlue
08-27-2019, 01:54 AM
Exactly. Puckett was on a HoF trajectory WITHOUT the championships until he got hurt ending his career. Manning never was remotely in that discussion. The two have very little in common other than that they were on two title teams.

The Mattingly comp falls short in this regard: Puckett had a decade of great play and then his career was ended. Mattingly had 3-4 uber-elite years, a few very good then about 5-6 mediocre years. So in aggregate, Mattingly’s numbers don’t match up with Puckett’s, even ignoring the titles.

If Mattingly had gotten 3-4 more great years in before injuries took their toll, he probably gets in too. Or at least is knocking on the door.

Used to love listening to Yankee games as a kid on 77 WABC-NY and remember when Mattingly hit 10 homers in 8 games. Too lazy to look it up to see if that is still a record.

CDu
08-27-2019, 09:03 AM
Used to love listening to Yankee games as a kid on 77 WABC-NY and remember when Mattingly hit 10 homers in 8 games. Too lazy to look it up to see if that is still a record.

Yeah, Mattingly in the mid-80s was something special. It is a shame that his peak was so short.

JasonEvans
08-27-2019, 10:05 AM
So, just to recap...

The DANIEL JONES DESERVES HIS OWN THREAD thread has now spent much of its time talking about Baker Mayfield, Eli Manning, Kirby Puckett, and Don Mattingly.

-Jason "I enjoy thread drift as much as the next guy, but this is getting ridiculous" Evans

Acymetric
08-27-2019, 10:42 AM
So, just to recap...

The DANIEL JONES DESERVES HIS OWN THREAD thread has now spent much of its time talking about Baker Mayfield, Eli Manning, Kirby Puckett, and Don Mattingly.

-Jason "I enjoy thread drift as much as the next guy, but this is getting ridiculous" Evans

I think it will ultimately make sense to move discussion back to the general NFL thread once the season starts, since DJ isn't going to be doing much of anything at least initially in the regular season.

BD80
08-27-2019, 11:11 AM
So, just to recap...

The DANIEL JONES DESERVES HIS OWN THREAD thread has now spent much of its time talking about Baker Mayfield, Eli Manning, Kirby Puckett, and Don Mattingly.

-Jason "I enjoy thread drift as much as the next guy, but this is getting ridiculous" Evans

Come on Jason, while you Mayfield a great deal of support on this Board, this a time to Manning up, just say "Puckett, it doesn't really Mattingly," and go with the flow.

Or you could Jones on Daniel.

Either way, MBB is coming soon!

JasonEvans
08-27-2019, 11:14 AM
Nice article (https://nypost.com/2019/08/26/this-may-be-giants-last-look-at-daniel-jones-before-team-is-his/)on how impressive Jones has been in preseason games and practices as he prepares to start Thursday's final preseason game (and then go on the shelf for a while as Eli captains the regular season ship). I love this anecdote from yesterday's practice:


He was impressive again in practice Monday, showing off that big right arm with precision passes. He hit eight of his first nine attempts, and the one incompletion was a Bennie Fowler III drop. The low point came late in practice, when under pressure Jones hurried a throw and was picked off by Ronald Zamort on an underneath pattern. Even then, he turned a negative into a positive. Not giving up on the play, Jones stripped Zamort.

-Jason "gimme dat!" Evans

HereBeforeCoachK
08-27-2019, 01:00 PM
Nice article (https://nypost.com/2019/08/26/this-may-be-giants-last-look-at-daniel-jones-before-team-is-his/)on how impressive Jones has been in preseason games and practices as he prepares to start Thursday's final preseason game (and then go on the shelf for a while as Eli captains the regular season ship). I love this anecdote from yesterday's practice:



-Jason "gimme dat!" Evans

This looks a lot like a Duke QB recruiting story to me.....

Native
08-27-2019, 06:33 PM
Another cool anecdote that’s more pertinent to Duke: over on /r/nygiants, a fan is now asking (https://old.reddit.com/r/NYGiants/comments/cw4bwc/anyone_know_where_to_get_a_daniel_jones_duke/)where he might be able to find a Daniel Jones Duke jersey. Pretty cool to see and hopefully indicative of the impact Jones’ success can have for the Duke football brand.

tbyers11
08-29-2019, 11:59 AM
Bringing this thread back to the top with nary a mention of Don Mattingly or Kirby Puckett. There is however a brief Baker Mayfield sighting.

From the Ringer:
The New York Giants drafted Daniel Jones. We can’t change that. But we can choose to see the good in his preseason performances and maybe even convince ourselves he’s a solid starting quarterback.



https://youtu.be/5xCwjGjFqC0

I think everyone really needs the regular season to start soon :D

texasdevil06
08-30-2019, 12:28 PM
Daniel Jones completed his preseason work last night against the Patriots. He only played one series but was 4-for-4 for 47 yards. Who knows whether he'll be on the field again anytime soon.

For the preseason he was 29-for-34 (with 2 drops), 85% completion rate, 416 yards, 2 TD's, 0 INT's, 137.3 QB rating.

Here's an 8 min. video from a Giants site showing every completed pass. Good stuff:

https://www.giants.com/video/watch-every-daniel-jones-completion-from-the-preseason

CameronBornAndBred
09-16-2019, 09:30 AM
The natives are getting restless. The internet is sprawling with articles on how it's time to move on and look to the future.
The overlying belief is that it's better to lose games and gain experience than lose games and gain nothing.

https://nypost.com/2019/09/15/how-much-longer-does-eli-manning-really-have/

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/27625413/let-overreact-week-2-nfl-bench-eli-rookie-now

https://www.espn.com/blog/new-york/giants/post/_/id/59429/giants-inching-closer-to-start-of-daniel-jones-era-with-loss-to-bills

OldPhiKap
09-16-2019, 09:38 AM
The natives are getting restless. The internet is sprawling with articles on how it's time to move on and look to the future.
The overlying belief is that it's better to lose games and gain experience than lose games and gain nothing.

https://nypost.com/2019/09/15/how-much-longer-does-eli-manning-really-have/

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/27625413/let-overreact-week-2-nfl-bench-eli-rookie-now

https://www.espn.com/blog/new-york/giants/post/_/id/59429/giants-inching-closer-to-start-of-daniel-jones-era-with-loss-to-bills

The guys on Bloomberg news this morning were musing about whether it was time to go to Daniel against Tampa Bay this weekend. I have not watched the games -- has Eli looked bad, or are the Giants just bad? Or something else?

CameronBornAndBred
09-16-2019, 09:55 AM
I have not watched the games -- has Eli looked bad, or are the Giants just bad? Or something else?
I haven't seen much either, but from what I've read, the answer is both. While many are clamoring for the Giants to start DJ yesterday, most level headed folks seem to think the earliest we'd see in is after week 4.
Tampa Bay is up next, and they aren't good, so it's a good one for Eli to show that he can still be a winner. (FYI, Tampa just beat the Panthers, but that's nothing to brag about this season.)

AGDukesky
09-16-2019, 10:15 AM
Eli has been his typical self sans the furious 4th quarter comebacks that happen frequently in those freak seasons when the Giants are destined to play a dominant Patriots team in the Super Bowl. This is not one of those seasons...

DukieInKansas
09-16-2019, 10:18 AM
You think 98% of DBR posters wouldn’t rather live in New York City over Cleveland if they had to choose between the two? This is just silly.

Factoring in cost of living, I'd take Cleveland. I've always wanted to be in the 2%.

(I know - late to the thread)

ChillinDuke
09-16-2019, 10:31 AM
The guys on Bloomberg news this morning were musing about whether it was time to go to Daniel against Tampa Bay this weekend. I have not watched the games -- has Eli looked bad, or are the Giants just bad? Or something else?

Eli is basically the definition of mediocre at this point. And that might be giving him slightly too much credit. He's 56-89 (66%) for 556 yds and 2-2 TD-INT through 2 games. That's pretty unimpressive. It's not entirely his fault as the Giants receivers are pretty mediocre as well with OBJ gone. And the Giants have basically nothing to play for this year as most would readily admit they are not playoff caliber.

So it's a little bit of a tough call between letting Eli ride off into the NY sunset (emotional) or letting the young kid get some reps in an aimless season (practical).

I personally think they'll give Eli a little more time. But if the season continues like this, I have little doubt that Jones will start at some point.

- Chillin

ETA: Sorry, didn't see that CB&B responded. Should have refreshed.

flyingdutchdevil
09-16-2019, 10:32 AM
I haven't seen much either, but from what I've read, the answer is both. While many are clamoring for the Giants to start DJ yesterday, most level headed folks seem to think the earliest we'd see in is after week 4.
Tampa Bay is up next, and they aren't good, so it's a good one for Eli to show that he can still be a winner. (FYI, Tampa just beat the Panthers, but that's nothing to brag about this season.)

It's both, but mainly skewed towards the Giants D. Thus far, Eli is ranked 22nd in QBR, a quarter back rating metric (http://www.espn.com/nfl/qbr). 22nd isn't good, but here's the list folks he's currently better than (after 2 games): Rodgers, Winston, Goff, Mayfield, Trubisky, Newton, Roethlisberger, and Cousins.

It's risky to start Jones this early. He is not going to help the Giants this year. And starting him may destroy his confidence. I'd like to see him start much later in the season.

Acymetric
09-16-2019, 10:35 AM
I kind of hope DJ doesn't start full time this year. He has got to work out his ball security issues before he gets a lot of game snaps, lest he makes a name for himself as the QB who fumbles all the time. So far he has looked excellent in the preseason and in the handful of snaps he got, except for that.

scottdude8
09-16-2019, 10:56 AM
I kind of hope DJ doesn't start full time this year. He has got to work out his ball security issues before he gets a lot of game snaps, lest he makes a name for himself as the QB who fumbles all the time. So far he has looked excellent in the preseason and in the handful of snaps he got, except for that.

I'm with you here too. I'd love to see a more rigorous analysis, but anecdotally I feel that first rounders who have an "apprentice year (at minimum)" seem to pan out in the long term more often than those thrown into the fire (Aaron Rodgers and Patrick Mahomes being the primary examples... I believe Carson Palmer also did this way back when). I can't think of a real "bust" off the top of my head that was a Top-15 pick that waited a year to start, but a bunch of busts amongst those who started right away. Heck, Josh Rosen isn't even into his second season and people are already writing him off entirely after being the No. 10 pick last year after struggling on the worst team in the league last year.

That said, if DJ starts he has a safety blanket that very few rookies have ever had in Saquon Barkley, not to mention a top TE in Engram (even if his receiving corps is historically awful). I could imagine a scenario where he starts, Barkley runs it 25 times a game, and half of DJ's passes go to either Barkley or Engram. That would be a nice, controlled, safe way to start his career.

budwom
09-16-2019, 11:16 AM
I kind of hope DJ doesn't start full time this year. He has got to work out his ball security issues before he gets a lot of game snaps, lest he makes a name for himself as the QB who fumbles all the time. So far he has looked excellent in the preseason and in the handful of snaps he got, except for that.

yeah, I look forward to seeing DJ on the field, but he's not going to make that bad team suddenly good...I suspect we'll see more of him by mid season...at this point there's no need to hurry things.

CameronBornAndBred
09-16-2019, 03:41 PM
Hmmm...


During his Monday morning presser after the Giants' 28-14 Week 2 loss to the Buffalo Bills, Shurmur left the door open for a change at the quarterback position a lot sooner than most originally anticipated.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/giants-pat-shurmur-leaves-the-door-open-for-daniel-jones-to-replace-eli-manning-in-week-3-decision-to-come-on-wednesday/ar-AAHo5q2?li=BBnbfcL#page=2

rocketeli
09-16-2019, 04:21 PM
I'm with you here too. I'd love to see a more rigorous analysis, but anecdotally I feel that first rounders who have an "apprentice year (at minimum)" seem to pan out in the long term more often than those thrown into the fire (Aaron Rodgers and Patrick Mahomes being the primary examples... I believe Carson Palmer also did this way back when). I can't think of a real "bust" off the top of my head that was a Top-15 pick that waited a year to start, but a bunch of busts amongst those who started right away. Heck, Josh Rosen isn't even into his second season and people are already writing him off entirely after being the No. 10 pick last year after struggling on the worst team in the league last year.

That said, if DJ starts he has a safety blanket that very few rookies have ever had in Saquon Barkley, not to mention a top TE in Engram (even if his receiving corps is historically awful). I could imagine a scenario where he starts, Barkley runs it 25 times a game, and half of DJ's passes go to either Barkley or Engram. That would be a nice, controlled, safe way to start his career.

Well, this could be the old causation versus correlation conundrum. Probably a team that has to start an untried, rookie quarterback is a bad team. And despite fans tending to credit or discredit the QB for everything pass-related on the field, without a good o-line, decent play calling, and receivers that can get open and catch the ball, even the best QB isn't going to look too good.

OldPhiKap
09-16-2019, 04:25 PM
Hmmm...



https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/giants-pat-shurmur-leaves-the-door-open-for-daniel-jones-to-replace-eli-manning-in-week-3-decision-to-come-on-wednesday/ar-AAHo5q2?li=BBnbfcL#page=2

Trial balloon? Warning shot to all starters? Genuine uncertainty as to who should start?

Interesting.

CameronBornAndBred
09-16-2019, 04:41 PM
Trial balloon? Warning shot to all starters? Genuine uncertainty as to who should start?

Interesting.

Best bet.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uZD8HKVKneI

Pghdukie
09-16-2019, 04:52 PM
Where did the nickname " Danny Dimes" come from ?

HereBeforeCoachK
09-16-2019, 05:04 PM
Where did the nickname " Danny Dimes" come from ?

As I heard it, Giants fans on Twitter....that's where it gained traction. This in response to his very accurate passing in pre season games.

jimsumner
09-16-2019, 06:35 PM
Factoring in cost of living, I'd take Cleveland. I've always wanted to be in the 2%.

(I know - late to the thread)

I could actually afford to live in Cleveland.

NYC ? I'm too old to share an apartment with four roommates.

75Crazie
09-17-2019, 10:15 AM
Adam Shefter is reporting that Jones has just been announced as the starter this coming weekend.

JasonEvans
09-17-2019, 10:18 AM
Adam Shefter is reporting that Jones has just been announced as the starter this coming weekend.

At least a month earlier than expected, but Eli has not been good thus far this season.

Being reported by many outlets at this point.
https://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football/giants/ny-daniel-jones-eli-manning-20190917-d62mrfpb55ayhpxkja7aplp44y-story.html

duke74
09-17-2019, 10:22 AM
At least a month earlier than expected, but Eli has not been good thus far this season.

Being reported by many outlets at this point.
https://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football/giants/ny-daniel-jones-eli-manning-20190917-d62mrfpb55ayhpxkja7aplp44y-story.html

Tweeted out by the Giants - per the NY Post

nmduke2001
09-17-2019, 10:29 AM
Tweeted out by the Giants - per the NY Post

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/27636024/giants-bench-eli-elevate-jones-starting-qb

sagegrouse
09-17-2019, 10:44 AM
Holy, moly! I am praying for Daniel.

flyingdutchdevil
09-17-2019, 10:52 AM
Holy, moly! I am praying for Daniel.

Yeah. Seriously.

If the Giants win, Jones will most certainly be a key reason why.

If the Giants lose, DBR will blame a) the Giants defense, b) the Giants coaching staff for allowing a young rookie to play so soon, or c) the New England Patriots. Basically, put blame on any one not named Daniel Jones.

jwillfan
09-17-2019, 10:53 AM
https://twitter.com/CBSSportsHQ/status/1173969045726670851

jwillfan
09-17-2019, 10:56 AM
Yeah. Seriously.

If the Giants win, Jones will most certainly be a key reason why.

If the Giants lose, DBR will blame a) the Giants defense, b) the Giants coaching staff for allowing a young rookie to play so soon, or c) the New England Patriots. Basically, put blame on any one not named Daniel Jones.

To be fair, if they lose Daniel will be the consummate professional and blame himself and talk about how he will learn from the experience how he needs to improve.

OldPhiKap
09-17-2019, 10:57 AM
Dumb question -- is there a way to stream the game? It's not scheduled for broadcast in my area.

chrishoke
09-17-2019, 10:57 AM
Holy, moly! I am praying for Daniel.

He will need it. This likely will not turn out well.

dudog84
09-17-2019, 10:58 AM
This actually makes a lot of sense for the Giants. DJ is their future, might as well get on with it. The rest of the team is fairly weak, they weren't going to contend this year. And with the QB injuries this past weekend, Eli Manning has some real trade value. I expect to see him in another uniform this weekend, next week at the latest. Steelers just gave up a 2020 first round pick for a safety.

budwom
09-17-2019, 11:14 AM
it sure doesn't help that the Giants have a severe paucity of receivers...into the deep end of the pool goes our man Daniel...

Avvocato
09-17-2019, 11:30 AM
As I heard it, Giants fans on Twitter...that's where it gained traction. This in response to his very accurate passing in pre season games.

It actually started with a tweet by the Giants showing video of DJ during a spring/summer drill. He was throwing basically 5 yard out passes with no defense, and the caption was something like Daniel Jones throwing dimes, or something like that. People got a chuckle out of it. However, when the preseason started, and DJ was connecting on almost every pass, the Giants fans, playing off the initial tweet, started calling him Danny Dimes for his throwing. It was funny watching twitter react to it. Many fans started jumping on board, some opposed it, many laughed regardless of where they fell, but it kept catching on. Many who ridiculed it just gave in. It was funny watching the evolution of the nickname on twitter, because it reflected the changing attitude towards DJ during the preseason. Here's one story from August that talked about his nickname: https://www.nj.com/giants/2019/08/danny-dimes-what-daniel-jones-and-giants-teammates-think-of-qbs-new-nickname.html.

tbyers11
09-17-2019, 11:59 AM
Dumb question -- is there a way to stream the game? It's not scheduled for broadcast in my area.

Legally, I think your only option is purchasing the NFL Sunday Ticket. In terms of torrents, I am sure there are options. However, I am not your man in that area.

This might be the only time (outside of either team playing the Packers) that I'm actually excited to reside in the TB/JAX home markets for an NFL game

Blue in the Face
09-17-2019, 12:10 PM
Dumb question -- is there a way to stream the game? It's not scheduled for broadcast in my area.
If legality is not a concern, google reddit nfl streams on sunday morning. The streams will have a bunch of pop-ups at first, but they typically work fine. (I've never had malware issues from watching streams, but who knows).

devildeac
09-17-2019, 12:38 PM
Dumb question -- is there a way to stream the game? It's not scheduled for broadcast in my area.

ACCN-take it to the bank. :rolleyes:

If not, maybe Facebook. :rolleyes:

g4orce
09-17-2019, 12:45 PM
With the exception of the Yankees, I've never really followed NY pro sports much. Yeah, I'll watch a game here or there, but now I'm interested because:

Daniel Jones @ NYG (starter)
RJ Barrett @ NY Knicks (starter)
Kyrie Irving @ Brooklyn Nets (starter)
Jamison Crowder @ NY Jets (starter)

It's really cool to see Duke getting some high visibility in other pro sports besides basketball.

OZZIE4DUKE
09-17-2019, 12:54 PM
If legality is not a concern, google reddit nfl streams on sunday morning. The streams will have a bunch of pop-ups at first, but they typically work fine. (I've never had malware issues from watching streams, but who knows).
Does this make you a co-conspirator and/or an accomplice?

Best wishes Daniel! LGD GTHc!

OldPhiKap
09-17-2019, 01:02 PM
Legally, I think your only option is purchasing the NFL Sunday Ticket. In terms of torrents, I am sure there are options. However, I am not your man in that area.

This might be the only time (outside of either team playing the Packers) that I'm actually excited to reside in the TB/JAX home markets for an NFL game


If legality is not a concern, google reddit nfl streams on sunday morning. The streams will have a bunch of pop-ups at first, but they typically work fine. (I've never had malware issues from watching streams, but who knows).

Thanks, and thanks. I'll stick with legal and just wait for the highlight packages after the game.


ACCN-take it to the bank. :rolleyes:

If not, maybe Facebook. :rolleyes:

True, I can't even watch the Blue Devils so not sure why in the world I would think I could watch our alum.

subzero02
09-17-2019, 01:16 PM
Yeah. Seriously.

If the Giants win, Jones will most certainly be a key reason why.

If the Giants lose, DBR will blame a) the Giants defense, b) the Giants coaching staff for allowing a young rookie to play so soon, or c) the New England Patriots. Basically, put blame on any one not named Daniel Jones.

I hope folks would blame the Bucs before they blame the Patriots since that's who Jones will face in his debut as an NFL starter. It's early in the year but it appears that the Bucs have their best defense in quite some time

rsvman
09-17-2019, 01:38 PM
I hope folks would blame the Bucs before they blame the Patriots since that's who Jones will face in his debut as an NFL starter. It's early in the year but it appears that the Bucs have their best defense in quite some time

But we blame the Patriots for everything! Are you saying we can no longer do this? If so, I'm going to go through withdrawals.

BD80
09-17-2019, 01:51 PM
it sure doesn't help that the Giants have a severe paucity of receivers...into the deep end of the pool goes our man Daniel...

I am certain the Steelers would trade Donte Moncrief to the Giants in a heartbeat. Problem is, he have to catch a plane, a train or a bus to get there ….

BD80
09-17-2019, 01:53 PM
But we blame the Patriots for everything! Are you saying we can no longer do this? If so, I'm going to go through withdrawals.

The Patriots are the reason the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor ...

HereBeforeCoachK
09-17-2019, 01:54 PM
It actually started with a tweet by the Giants showing video of DJ during a spring/summer drill. He was throwing basically 5 yard out passes with no defense, and the caption was something like Daniel Jones throwing dimes, or something like that. People got a chuckle out of it. However, when the preseason started, and DJ was connecting on almost every pass, the Giants fans, playing off the initial tweet, started calling him Danny Dimes for his throwing. It was funny watching twitter react to it. Many fans started jumping on board, some opposed it, many laughed regardless of where they fell, but it kept catching on. Many who ridiculed it just gave in. It was funny watching the evolution of the nickname on twitter, because it reflected the changing attitude towards DJ during the preseason. Here's one story from August that talked about his nickname: https://www.nj.com/giants/2019/08/danny-dimes-what-daniel-jones-and-giants-teammates-think-of-qbs-new-nickname.html.

As I said, Giants fans on Twitter is "where it gained traction." I did not know where it was actually first stated.

flyingdutchdevil
09-17-2019, 02:40 PM
But we blame the Patriots for everything! Are you saying we can no longer do this? If so, I'm going to go through withdrawals.

Exactly. That’s where my comment came from.

I am happy to be the token Pas fan on DBR.

I like BD80’s Blue Devil posts, but we’re never gonna see eye to eye on the NFL :)

ice-9
09-17-2019, 03:11 PM
Here's a good article on DJ as the starter:

Daniel Jones replaces Eli Manning: Here's how the Giants offense will change and could immediately improve

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/daniel-jones-replaces-eli-manning-heres-how-the-giants-offense-will-change-and-could-immediately-improve/

BD80
09-17-2019, 03:33 PM
Exactly. That’s where my comment came from.

I am happy to be the token Pas fan on DBR.

I like BD80’s Blue Devil posts, but we’re never gonna see eye to eye on the NFL :)


I bet we both root for the Giants the next time they play Dallas!


Other than that, … yeah, you're probably right :(

fuse
09-17-2019, 04:11 PM
Too soon. Fingers crossed this works out for the best for Daniel.
Rooting for him to be successful!

dudog84
09-17-2019, 04:34 PM
Too soon. Fingers crossed this works out for the best for Daniel.
Rooting for him to be successful!

No telling. If I remember correctly (too lazy to research this afternoon), Big Ben went in on the second game of his rookie season when Tommy Maddox got hurt and didn't lose until the AFC Championship Game.

Big, BIG caveat: The Steelers had an awesome defense and Jerome Bettis. Daniel has neither.

Blue in the Face
09-17-2019, 04:58 PM
Too soon. Fingers crossed this works out for the best for Daniel.
Rooting for him to be successful!
Other than waiting until they had a fuller set of receivers, I don't know that sooner or later makes much difference. However optimistic or pessimistic fans may have been before the season started, that's cratered fast, so only the whiniest, most reactionary of fans will dump on him if the team continues to do poorly. And from both his rep coming in, and everything that's been said about him since coming here, he's a quick study, and probably has less need for more weeks of study and practice reps to understand the offense than some rookies might. I posted in the other thread that I thought it would be later, and even after the first 2 games I didn't expect it this early, but you're not contending anyway, might as well let him start getting in there, and moving along the learning curve. If he struggles, he struggles.

duke74
09-17-2019, 05:19 PM
Clever

https://twitter.com/i/videos/tweet/1173971340082044935?embed_source=clientlib&player_id=0&rpc_init=1&autoplay=1&language_code=en&use_syndication_guest_id=true

Avvocato
09-17-2019, 05:29 PM
As I said, Giants fans on Twitter is "where it gained traction." I did not know where it was actually first stated.

I know. I wasn't being critical but was giving more background, since the original question was where the nickname came from.

dudog84
09-17-2019, 05:29 PM
Clever

https://twitter.com/i/videos/tweet/1173971340082044935?embed_source=clientlib&player_id=0&rpc_init=1&autoplay=1&language_code=en&use_syndication_guest_id=true

Would have been more impressed by a take-off of Me & Mrs. (Daniel) Jones. :D They got a thing...going on. Eli knows that it's wrong. But Dan's much too strong.

wavedukefan70s
09-17-2019, 06:05 PM
I bet we both root for the Giants the next time they play Dallas!


Other than that, … yeah, you're probably right :(

Dallas will still win.gotta wush jones luck in every other game though.
Its a great opportunity.

jv001
09-17-2019, 07:41 PM
The guys on XM Fantasy Football seem impressed with Daniel's pre-season as they are calling him "Danny Dimes". Good luck young man and I hope your offensive line is better than I think they are. GoDuke and Go"Danny Dimes".

msdukie
09-17-2019, 11:22 PM
With the exception of the Yankees, I've never really followed NY pro sports much. Yeah, I'll watch a game here or there, but now I'm interested because:

Daniel Jones @ NYG (starter)
RJ Barrett @ NY Knicks (starter)
Kyrie Irving @ Brooklyn Nets (starter)
Jamison Crowder @ NY Jets (starter)

It's really cool to see Duke getting some high visibility in other pro sports besides basketball.

Marcus Stroman @ Mets (starter)

budwom
09-18-2019, 07:42 AM
Perhaps the best news is that Jones's teammates are said to respect him, which is no small thing.

HereBeforeCoachK
09-18-2019, 08:01 AM
Perhaps the best news is that Jones's teammates are said to respect him, which is no small thing.

I can't imagine that Shurmur would have made this move unless he knew the players, at least a lot of them, would welcome the change.

flyingdutchdevil
09-18-2019, 08:27 AM
I bet we both root for the Giants the next time they play Dallas!


Other than that, … yeah, you're probably right :(

Consider it done!

I actually like the Giants. I’ve been an Eli fan for a while and think the dude has always gotten an unfair rep (NY media, less talented younger brother, poor team management). I also think the way he’s handled the DJ news has been professional (and of course he’s disappointed! That’s only natural).

rsvman
09-18-2019, 09:38 AM
I'll happily join fdd and BD80 in rooting for the Giants against the Cowboys.

scottdude8
09-18-2019, 10:15 AM
As a general rule of thumb I tend to root against NY teams since they're often so easy to vilify (not to mention it's always more fun rooting for a plucky small-market underdog). The NFC East has sometimes been one of my exceptions considering the Cowboys are the real evil empire of football (not to mention Jerry Jones is such a troublesome figure) and the Washington Football Team has it's own issues (that I not so subtly just highlighted). My team of choice has typically been the Eagles since I have friends who are Eagles fans. Now it's very easy to say I'm rooting for the Giants in that division. And as a Lions fan, it's always good to have other teams to root for in the NFL so that I don't fall into despair when they inevitably implode.

moonpie23
09-18-2019, 10:21 AM
Clever

https://twitter.com/i/videos/tweet/1173971340082044935?embed_source=clientlib&player_id=0&rpc_init=1&autoplay=1&language_code=en&use_syndication_guest_id=true

awesome

AGDukesky
09-18-2019, 10:25 AM
Why are people wasting their time hating on the Cowboys when that organization sabotages itself from within? The Patriots are the only real evil we should all unite against...😀

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
09-18-2019, 10:26 AM
Why are people wasting their time hating on the Cowboys when that organization sabotages itself from within? The Patriots are the only real evil we should all unite against...😀

I mean, we don't root against NCSU... Is there much difference?

CameronBlue
09-18-2019, 10:33 AM
Why are people wasting their time hating on the Cowboys when that organization sabotages itself from within? The Patriots are the only real evil we should all unite against...😀



"Brady and Bündchen stick to a firm set of dietary rules: No white sugar. No white flour. No nightshade vegetables (peppers, eggplant, tomatoes) for Brady. Only whole grains like brown rice, quinoa, and millet. And no dairy -- Brady says he eats an ice cream made from an avocado base." WebMD

Brady and I maintain a similar lifestyle. We both have personal chefs. His chef is Allen Campbell, mine is the 3rd shift fry cook at Burger King.

DukieInKansas
09-18-2019, 11:32 AM
I'll happily join fdd and BD80 in rooting for the Giants against the Cowboys.

I root for almost anyone against the Cowboys. Dislike from the 70s-80s lasts a long time. :D

Indoor66
09-18-2019, 11:55 AM
"Brady and Bündchen stick to a firm set of dietary rules: No white sugar. No white flour. No nightshade vegetables (peppers, eggplant, tomatoes) for Brady. Only whole grains like brown rice, quinoa, and millet. And no dairy -- Brady says he eats an ice cream made from an avocado base." WebMD

Brady and I maintain a similar lifestyle. We both have personal chefs. His chef is Allen Campbell, mine is the 3rd shift fry cook at Burger King.

You are a person of discerning taste.

rsvman
09-18-2019, 12:03 PM
"Brady and Bündchen stick to a firm set of dietary rules: No white sugar. No white flour. No nightshade vegetables (peppers, eggplant, tomatoes) for Brady. Only whole grains like brown rice, quinoa, and millet. And no dairy -- Brady says he eats an ice cream made from an avocado base." WebMD

Brady and I maintain a similar lifestyle. We both have personal chefs. His chef is Allen Campbell, mine is the 3rd shift fry cook at Burger King.

Yeah, my diet is pretty much like Brady's too, except I eat a lot of white sugar and white flour. Oh, and I love "nightshade vegetables." But otherwise, the same. Except I don't eat brown rice, millet, or quinoa much; prefer white rice. And cheese and ice cream are pretty much daily for me.

But aside from that, our diets are extremely similar.

chris13
09-18-2019, 12:46 PM
I fail to understand why they didn't cut Eli before the season. According to pro football focus, he was the 28th ranked out of 32 starting quarterbacks in the NFL last year.

If they think Jones is worthy of the 6th pick, then they thing he is the quarterback of the future and they should have started him from Day 1 OR gotten a cheaper than Eli veteran to start until Jones was ready and used the money from Eli's salary to get other players to improve their areas of weakness. I hope Jones does well.

budwom
09-18-2019, 12:48 PM
I fail to understand why they didn't cut Eli before the season. According to pro football focus, he was the 28th ranked out of 32 starting quarterbacks in the NFL last year.

If they think Jones is worthy of the 6th pick, then they thing he is the quarterback of the future and they should have started him from Day 1 OR gotten a cheaper than Eli veteran to start until Jones was ready and used the money from Eli's salary to get other players to improve their areas of weakness. I hope Jones does well.

as they noted on PTI last night, Jones could still get injured, or stumble, so Manning might not necessarily be entirely done...

Steven43
09-18-2019, 01:48 PM
I root for almost anyone against the Cowboys. Dislike from the 70s-80s lasts a long time. :D
What about your dislike of America’s Team from the 90’s??

DukieInKansas
09-18-2019, 02:17 PM
What about your dislike of America’s Team from the 90’s??

Since they gave themselves that name with their 1978 highlight film (yes, I googled it), my stated time frame stands. FYI - I was (am?) a Steelers fan and I lived in Houston for a time. Best Oilers' quote was Carl Mauck who told all the Cowboy fans in Houston to get out of town - on the evening news. It was great!

chris13
09-18-2019, 03:08 PM
as they noted on PTI last night, Jones could still get injured, or stumble, so Manning might not necessarily be entirely done...

That's a very good point. I would argue that you could have cut Manning and signed a veteran (Blake Bortles, for example) that would have given you the same level of performance, saved you some money that could have been put into other positions, and not caused a QB controversy.

Eli Manning is a class act and has been a very good pro quarterback. He is also, pretty clearly, done, at least as a Giant. The NFL is cold place, and I think the right choice would have been to cut ties with him in the offseason. If Daniel Jones gets hurt and Eli returns as starter, the Giants are going to be bad.

dudog84
09-18-2019, 03:25 PM
That's a very good point. I would argue that you could have cut Manning and signed a veteran (Blake Bortles, for example) that would have given you the same level of performance, saved you some money that could have been put into other positions, and not caused a QB controversy.

Eli Manning is a class act and has been a very good pro quarterback. He is also, pretty clearly, done, at least as a Giant. The NFL is cold place, and I think the right choice would have been to cut ties with him in the offseason. If Daniel Jones gets hurt and Eli returns as starter, the Giants are going to be bad.

I think the Giants are just bad, period. Not the best situation for Jones to move into, but I'm sure he wouldn't change places with any of us. Living a dream. Good for him. What, 4 years ago he couldn't get a major college to look at him (Duke stumbled upon him), and now he's starting for the NY Giants.

budwom
09-18-2019, 03:33 PM
Daniel's all set with a former Duke athlete girlfriend and a fine yellow lab:

https://nypost.com/2019/09/18/meet-ella-bonafede-girlfriend-of-giants-starting-quarterback-daniel-jones/

Avvocato
09-18-2019, 03:47 PM
That's a very good point. I would argue that you could have cut Manning and signed a veteran (Blake Bortles, for example) that would have given you the same level of performance, saved you some money that could have been put into other positions, and not caused a QB controversy.

Eli Manning is a class act and has been a very good pro quarterback. He is also, pretty clearly, done, at least as a Giant. The NFL is cold place, and I think the right choice would have been to cut ties with him in the offseason. If Daniel Jones gets hurt and Eli returns as starter, the Giants are going to be bad.

The Giants handling of Manning has been a mess, but it has its complications. On one hand, there are those that still thought Manning had a little something left in the tank but was hampered by an awful offensive line. The offensive line was a disaster, and personally, I think it had a lot to do with Manning's recent play. However, management has rebuilt the offensive line the last two years and no longer should be used to justify his performances.

Manning also has a lot of good will built up from the two Super Bowl runs. About 2-3 years ago, the prior coach, Ben McAdoo, who was a disaster with the media and fans, sat Manning to play Geno Smith (that wasn't technically what happened, but what in essence happened). The fan base exploded. Ownership, who signed off on the move, was caught completely off guard by the fan reaction. Truthfully, if they were sitting Manning to play their then 3rd round pick, Davis Webb, the fans wouldn't have reacted that way. People may have understood taking a look at your young QB to see what you have at the end of another lost season. But everyone in New York knew what kind of disaster Geno Smith was from his days with the Jets, and that he would never be the heir apparent. Plus, the way McAdoo handled the switch was just a nightmare. That PR nightmare lasted one game, and they went back to Manning (and fired the coach). I think this episode so shell shocked ownership, that they were hesitant to make a QB change so quickly (which was an overreaction). Many thought they should have drafted one of the young QBs in the 2018 NFL draft. They took Barkley (who is a stud). In any case, after getting Barkley, they resigned OBJ to an extension before the 2018 season and tried to improve their offensive line, so many thought Manning would play better in 2018. Giants still stunk.

So, for 2019, with no QB ready to take over, they drafted DJ. Their plan for 2019 was for Manning to play the whole year, letting DJ learn, and then likely let him take over in 2020 (similar to what the Chiefs did with Pat Mahomes). However, once DJ had his tremendous preseason, the talk began to focus on when DJ would take over this year. At that point, local fans and media felt like unless Manning was leading the Giants to the playoffs, they would probably make a change this year and just debated when. Most thought it might happen about 10 games into the season. Why the switch now? I just think their philosophy changed. They are 0-2 and they don't look good offensively, so they might as well put DJ in and let him learn on the job. He has a stud running back, and although their receivers are not top notch, they have a good tight end in Engram, and the line has improved a bit.

Personally, I think DJ's preseason play just changed the whole dynamic. When he was drafted, the fans booed, as we know. Management obviously liked him, but I don't even think they thought he would play as well as he did preseason. DJ's preseason play turned the public opinion around, and his elevation became a matter of time once the Giants continued to lose and look weak offensively. They need a change and a spark. While you would prefer not to have a $20+ million back-up quarterback, this season now for the Giants is really about DJ's development. If they go 3-13 but he evolves into looking like their QB of the future, it becomes a successful season for them (which also helps the coach defend his record). Manning will be a good teammate and help DJ through the season, which will actually be worth it for the Giants and DJ. You can't put a price tag on that.

wavedukefan70s
09-18-2019, 03:52 PM
What about your dislike of America’s Team from the 90’s??

Im still sore at jerry for running jimmy johnson off.that cost us a few more superbowl appearances.
Jones is the best chance for the giants .they should ride the year out with him.
They will be better for it.

OldPhiKap
09-18-2019, 04:03 PM
There was a huge uproar in NY when they drafted a quarterback from Duke that very few had ever heard of, let alone seen.

What do you think the reaction would have been if the Giants said "oh yeah, and one more thing -- we've traded Eli"?

The Giants were brave enough to make the decision to pick DJ 6th as is. Fingers crossed, he has a good game and good season when he is in!

wilson
09-18-2019, 04:19 PM
You think 98% of DBR posters wouldn’t rather live in New York City over Cleveland if they had to choose between the two? This is just silly.I'd rather live in NYC for 2 years, but Cleveland if it's 15.

AustinDevil
09-18-2019, 04:23 PM
Why are people wasting their time hating on the Cowboys when that organization sabotages itself from within? The Patriots are the only real evil we should all unite against...😀

True and true. Dallas is hamstrung by an egomaniacal and incompetent GM who has lifetime job security.

AGDukesky
09-18-2019, 05:01 PM
I'd rather live in NYC for 2 years, but Cleveland if it's 15.

I agree with the general sentiment but would change Cleveland to any major city suburbs. I love visiting NYC and would have gladly lived there before I had children...

jwillfan
09-18-2019, 05:01 PM
The Giants handling of Manning has been a mess, but it has its complications. On one hand, there are those that still thought Manning had a little something left in the tank but was hampered by an awful offensive line. The offensive line was a disaster, and personally, I think it had a lot to do with Manning's recent play. However, management has rebuilt the offensive line the last two years and no longer should be used to justify his performances.
--truncated


I think this is spot-on. So much so that I would like to point you all to this article written by one of my favorite bloggers, David Roth of Deadspin:

https://deadspin.com/this-might-finally-be-it-for-eli-manning-1838193705

"Management was high on Duke’s Daniel Jones in ways that suggested they might also have been high on other things, and while Jones showed some promise in the preseason—he still looks like a dang Lego Man with his helmet off, but he also looked much more fluid and creative and capable than fans feared—there was still the question of when and how any change would come"

75Crazie
09-18-2019, 07:58 PM
I spent a year in Manhattan one month. I was never so glad to get out of anywhere as I was at the end of that month.

left_hook_lacey
09-19-2019, 08:08 AM
I spent a year in Manhattan one month. I was never so glad to get out of anywhere as I was at the end of that month.

"If they ain't got a Grand Ole Opry
Like they do down in Tennessee,
Just send me to hell or New York City
Cause it would be about the same to me"

-Hank

budwom
09-19-2019, 08:26 AM
Right now the league is filled with teams who have had starters injured and are largely SOL...so having Eli waiting around is hardly the worst thing...nothing is going to make the Giants good this year, they just have to try and improve and get Jones good experience...at least the OL is improved somewhat...

p.s. Terry Bradshaw says Eli should "pack his bags and go home," so obviously the right move is to do the opposite and stick around.

dudog84
09-19-2019, 08:40 AM
Right now the league is filled with teams who have had starters injured and are largely SOL...so having Eli waiting around is hardly the worst thing...nothing is going to make the Giants good this year, they just have to try and improve and get Jones good experience...at least the OL is improved somewhat...

p.s. Terry Bradshaw says Eli should "pack his bags and go home," so obviously the right move is to do the opposite and stick around.

That's why they need to trade Eli for draft picks. His trade value will never be higher. Just last year he completed 66% of his passes and had a 92.4 rating.

If, God forbid, Daniel is hurt, it's not gonna matter much to the Giants this year. Build for the future.

budwom
09-19-2019, 08:47 AM
That's why they need to trade Eli for draft picks. His trade value will never be higher. Just last year he completed 66% of his passes and had a 92.4 rating.

If, God forbid, Daniel is hurt, it's not gonna matter much to the Giants this year. Build for the future.

I just don't think anyone will give up anything more than a mid round draft pick for him, if that...do you?

NJ.com just roasted the Giants, noting they have $35 million tied up in players this year who won't (presumably) play for them...Beckham and Eli...
If there was a good time to trade him, it was before the season began, and even then I don't think he has much trade value, but I'm hardly tuned in...

JasonEvans
09-19-2019, 09:16 AM
I just don't think anyone will give up anything more than a mid round draft pick for him, if that...do you?

Yeah, if the Giants could even get a 3rd round pick for Eli I bet they would jump at it. I think something like a 4th and a 5th may be more likely. There just isn't much of a trade market for a mid-level (at best) QB who is making $23+ mil this season and has no more than a year or two left in his career.

dudog84
09-19-2019, 09:21 AM
I just don't think anyone will give up anything more than a mid round draft pick for him, if that...do you?

NJ.com just roasted the Giants, noting they have $35 million tied up in players this year who won't (presumably) play for them...Beckham and Eli...
If there was a good time to trade him, it was before the season began, and even then I don't think he has much trade value, but I'm hardly tuned in...

I'm not necessarily tuned in either. But we both know the QB is the prime position on the field. If a team has a strong defense and other strengths on offense, but just lost their starter for most or all of the season (or think their current guy is the weak link on a strong team), they could very well want Eli. Windows to win in the NFL come and go, most will do about anything if they think they've got a good shot this year and just need a key piece.

After starting 0-2 and losing Big Ben, the Steelers season was most probably toast. After all, they didn't even make the playoffs last year with a career year from Ben and Antonio Brown in the lineup. And then this week they give up next year's first round pick for a safety. A SAFETY! But then again I think the Steelers have lost their minds in the last 5 years, which is why I'm not a fan anymore.

dudog84
09-19-2019, 09:38 AM
Not sure why everyone thinks Eli is so bad. I'll admit I don't watch the Giants. But last year his rating was 92.4. Big Ben's was 96.5. If a healthy Ben was available, what do you think a team would give up for him?

I'm far from an expert on what that rating formula entails (maybe 4 points is a big difference). But it must mean something, right? I'm willing to be educated...just as long as it's not your personal "eye test". Although anyone is welcome to their opinion, of course. I just have more faith in someone's opinion when they have something to back it up (like explain the rating is garbage).

uh_no
09-19-2019, 10:13 AM
Not sure why everyone thinks Eli is so bad. I'll admit I don't watch the Giants. But last year his rating was 92.4. Big Ben's was 96.5. If a healthy Ben was available, what do you think a team would give up for him?

I'm far from an expert on what that rating formula entails (maybe 4 points is a big difference). But it must mean something, right? I'm willing to be educated...just as long as it's not your personal "eye test". Although anyone is welcome to their opinion, of course. I just have more faith in someone's opinion when they have something to back it up (like explain the rating is garbage).

big ben isn't a good benchmark anymore. that 96.5 was good for 15th in the league, and Eli's for 21st. That's why everyone thinks big ben isi bad.

Acymetric
09-19-2019, 11:43 AM
Yeah, if the Giants could even get a 3rd round pick for Eli I bet they would jump at it. I think something like a 4th and a 5th may be more likely. There just isn't much of a trade market for a mid-level (at best) QB who is making $23+ mil this season and has no more than a year or two left in his career.

I'm pretty sure one of the statements either from Eli or his Agent suggested that he isn't interested in playing for another team. Since he has a no-trade clause in his contract, that means the Giants would be unable to trade him (and even without the no-trade clause he could just retire). Agree that a 4th or 5th round pick is probably best case if Eli were ​interested in a trade, and I'm not sure the optics of trading Eli is worth that small amount of draft capital.

HereBeforeCoachK
09-19-2019, 11:59 AM
Not sure why everyone thinks Eli is so bad. I'll admit I don't watch the Giants. But last year his rating was 92.4. Big Ben's was 96.5. If a healthy Ben was available, what do you think a team would give up for him?

I'm far from an expert on what that rating formula entails (maybe 4 points is a big difference). But it must mean something, right? I'm willing to be educated...just as long as it's not your personal "eye test". Although anyone is welcome to their opinion, of course. I just have more faith in someone's opinion when they have something to back it up (like explain the rating is garbage).

As one former defensive player said this week on ESPN, they never feared Eil. No one ever did. Big Ben is feared, or was feared. The reason Super Bowl rings is a misleading measurement for QBs is that in Eli's case, great wide receivers and great defenses were with him. Eli rarely, if ever, gave anyone heartburn in game planning him. It was game planning the Giant's pass rush that did.

And yeah, 4 plus points is a full half a grade difference...though that doesn't really tell the story.

Blue in the Face
09-19-2019, 12:05 PM
I'm pretty sure one of the statements either from Eli or his Agent suggested that he isn't interested in playing for another team. Since he has a no-trade clause in his contract, that means the Giants would be unable to trade him (and even without the no-trade clause he could just retire). Agree that a 4th or 5th round pick is probably best case if Eli were ​interested in a trade, and I'm not sure the optics of trading Eli is worth that small amount of draft capital.
I've assumed the talk about refusing a trade is just posturing. I assume Eli is still confident in his abilities, and if a contending team in need of a QB wanted him, he'd like the opportunity to bring a team to the post-season. Maybe not, who knows. But I agree that any offer would be a pretty low draft pick, and the team would likely not be very anxious to do that.

chris13
09-19-2019, 12:49 PM
The Giants handling of Manning has been a mess, but it has its complications. On one hand, there are those that still thought Manning had a little something left in the tank but was hampered by an awful offensive line. The offensive line was a disaster, and personally, I think it had a lot to do with Manning's recent play. However, management has rebuilt the offensive line the last two years and no longer should be used to justify his performances.

Manning also has a lot of good will built up from the two Super Bowl runs. About 2-3 years ago, the prior coach, Ben McAdoo, who was a disaster with the media and fans, sat Manning to play Geno Smith (that wasn't technically what happened, but what in essence happened). The fan base exploded. Ownership, who signed off on the move, was caught completely off guard by the fan reaction. Truthfully, if they were sitting Manning to play their then 3rd round pick, Davis Webb, the fans wouldn't have reacted that way. People may have understood taking a look at your young QB to see what you have at the end of another lost season. But everyone in New York knew what kind of disaster Geno Smith was from his days with the Jets, and that he would never be the heir apparent. Plus, the way McAdoo handled the switch was just a nightmare. That PR nightmare lasted one game, and they went back to Manning (and fired the coach). I think this episode so shell shocked ownership, that they were hesitant to make a QB change so quickly (which was an overreaction). Many thought they should have drafted one of the young QBs in the 2018 NFL draft. They took Barkley (who is a stud). In any case, after getting Barkley, they resigned OBJ to an extension before the 2018 season and tried to improve their offensive line, so many thought Manning would play better in 2018. Giants still stunk.

So, for 2019, with no QB ready to take over, they drafted DJ. Their plan for 2019 was for Manning to play the whole year, letting DJ learn, and then likely let him take over in 2020 (similar to what the Chiefs did with Pat Mahomes). However, once DJ had his tremendous preseason, the talk began to focus on when DJ would take over this year. At that point, local fans and media felt like unless Manning was leading the Giants to the playoffs, they would probably make a change this year and just debated when. Most thought it might happen about 10 games into the season. Why the switch now? I just think their philosophy changed. They are 0-2 and they don't look good offensively, so they might as well put DJ in and let him learn on the job. He has a stud running back, and although their receivers are not top notch, they have a good tight end in Engram, and the line has improved a bit.

Personally, I think DJ's preseason play just changed the whole dynamic. When he was drafted, the fans booed, as we know. Management obviously liked him, but I don't even think they thought he would play as well as he did preseason. DJ's preseason play turned the public opinion around, and his elevation became a matter of time once the Giants continued to lose and look weak offensively. They need a change and a spark. While you would prefer not to have a $20+ million back-up quarterback, this season now for the Giants is really about DJ's development. If they go 3-13 but he evolves into looking like their QB of the future, it becomes a successful season for them (which also helps the coach defend his record). Manning will be a good teammate and help DJ through the season, which will actually be worth it for the Giants and DJ. You can't put a price tag on that.

Thank you for this complete and spork worthy context. If Eli really gets on board with trying to help Jones, that is valuable. The difference between then and now it seems is that the fan base is more accepting of the fact that Eli is done, AND there is some evidence to support an optimistic case for Jones, which was not the case with Geno Smith. I have a friend whose son played on the Duke team with DJ and my friend raved about Jones' character and leadership.

I think of the George Young Giants as a one of the NFL's better run franchises from 1980 or so until the 2011 Super Bowl. They seem to have lost their way a little bit post Tom Coughlin.