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View Full Version : Favorite Player Poll- Final Four: Battier vs. Grant



JasonEvans
11-04-2007, 09:11 AM
Clash of the titans!! Our #2 seed vs. the #3 seed. Two guys who did it all on and off the court. Two of the finest individuals to ever wear a Duke Basketball Uniform.

Shane Battier vs. Grant Hill.

WOW!!

I won't be opening the poll for a few hours, to give folks time to post some "campaign statements" here. This poll will remain open until at least Tuesday AM.

--Jason "I have no idea who I am gonna vote for in this one" Evans

OZZIE4DUKE
11-04-2007, 09:29 AM
This one's much easier for me. Shane, hands down. Or should I say up!

gw67
11-04-2007, 09:49 AM
Can I split my vote? These guys were two of the best student athletes in NCAA sports. I followed Grant through high school and college and he was a favorite all through college. I'm voting for Shane, however. Like Grant, I admired his play but there were a host of little things that I really admired about Shane. He was a leader on those teams and he often led practices. He showed up and cheered on the women's team. He always exhibited real sportsmanship and was always generous in his praise of his opponents even when their fans were tough on him. Lastly, I will never forget how led the the team to the NCAA championship the same weekend he met his grandparents (mother's side) and several relatives for the first time (His mom's parents apparently had not approved of the mixed marriage and they came back together during the Final Four). That had to be a very emotional time for he, his parents and his relatives. He could have had a chip on his shoulder but he didn't, and he was able to play superbly to lead the team. He has always come across to me as a very good player and an equally good person.

gw67

JasonEvans
11-04-2007, 09:52 AM
How they got here:
#2 seed Shane Battier-

Won round of 32 vs. #31 seed Dahntay Jones with 94.48%
Won Sweet 16 vs. #15 seed Nate James with 92.14%
Won Great 8 vs. #7 seed JJ Redick with 77.30%


#3 seed Grant Hill-

Won round of 32 vs. #30 Mike Dunleavy with 93.23%
Won Sweet 16 vs. #19 seed Trajan Langdon with 91.24%
Won Great 8 vs. #6 seed Christian Laettner with 55.26%


--Jason "no question in my mind that Grant has faced tougher competition to get here" Evans

RelativeWays
11-04-2007, 09:58 AM
Battier is my patriarch!

johnb
11-04-2007, 10:25 AM
I haven't decided on my vote, but to those of you who only know that Grant has an art collection that travels the country; has played jazz piano for a nationally-televised audience; has donated a million bucks to Duke; has a mother who roomed with our future president; has a father who was an NFL All Pro; and has been a great spokesman for Duke for years, well he can also play basketball. Attached is a 4 minute youtube clip that was put together by former NBA'er Yinka Dare that you might want to listen to with the sound off (or at least not pay too much attention to the words--the hip hop language is, uhm, well, not what Grant himself would actually use). It includes him blowing by Jordan, for example, as well as a certain dunk in a final four that some might recall.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6x1p46_uc7Q

Carlos
11-04-2007, 11:01 AM
Battier vs. Grant

Jason... I sincerely hate you for this.

MChambers
11-04-2007, 11:30 AM
Battier vs. Grant

Jason... I sincerely hate you for this.

Jason, these guys should have been the top two seeds. Can't you reseed now that you've gotten to the Final Four?

:(

Having said that, I'll have to go with Grant. Don't ask me why, except that I think he was and is a more dominant player than Shane. They both played amazing defense (Shane was a little better, but not much), but Grant was the more versatile and accomplished offensive player.

Off the court, they are the best ambassadors for Duke basketball, of course.

lavell12
11-04-2007, 11:31 AM
Man this is hard but I'm going with Boom Boom

Lavabe
11-04-2007, 11:39 AM
I haven't decided on my vote, but to those of you who only know that Grant has an art collection that travels the country; has played jazz piano for a nationally-televised audience; has donated a million bucks to Duke; has a mother who roomed with our future president; has a father who was an NFL All Pro; and has been a great spokesman for Duke for years, well he can also play basketball. Attached is a 4 minute youtube clip that was put together by former NBA'er Yinka Dare that you might want to listen to with the sound off (or at least not pay too much attention to the words--the hip hop language is, uhm, well, not what Grant himself would actually use). It includes him blowing by Jordan, for example, as well as a certain dunk in a final four that some might recall.


Yes, but Shane will be President of the United States.

Cheers,
Lavabe

johnb
11-04-2007, 11:41 AM
Lastly, I will never forget how led the the team to the NCAA championship the same weekend he met his grandparents (mother's side) and several relatives for the first time (His mom's parents apparently had not approved of the mixed marriage and they came back together during the Final Four).

I hadn't heard that one before. It's amazing to me that they would pick that particular weekend to show up. Maybe they wanted good seats, but I'd certainly have had a chip on my shoulder. Of course, I'm also not Mr. Battier.

gotoguy
11-04-2007, 12:17 PM
I love these guys. Grant was the most talented Dukie I've seen play excepting of course Chris Paul foil Patrick Davidson, who obviously Jason held out of this competition to give everyone else a chance.

To me, Shane is simply the best Duke hoops player I've seen since I started watching Duke hoops in 1972. The second coming of Bill Bradley in Blue and White. One example: The "Gone in 60 seconds " Terp game when Shane, knowing what play the turtles were going to run, blocked Dixon's last shot to cinch the win. Then there was that Joe Forte breakaway in the Dean Dome...

JasonEvans
11-04-2007, 12:24 PM
Jason, these guys should have been the top two seeds. Can't you reseed now that you've gotten to the Final Four?

:(

Don't blame me. The seeding was done based on votes cast in the preliminary polls. Blame the 7-8% of the Duke fan base that did not vote for Shane and Grant to even move on to the Round of 32. That is the reason JWill got the higher seed.

I suspect that some people were so sure of Shane and Grant moving on that they used their votes to pull for someone else who had less of a chance of moving on. But, seeing as we all were allowed to vote for as many people as we wanted, that may have ended up working against these two stars.

I do agree thought that whoever wins this matchup will beat JWill or JD in the finals.

-Jason "personally, I hope JD makes the finals... a little old-school love would be nice" Evans

JasonEvans
11-04-2007, 12:28 PM
The poll is now open. Make your vote and post your thoughts.

-Jason

gw67
11-04-2007, 12:35 PM
johnb - It's always dangerous when I test my memory but I believe that Shane's grandparents either lived in Minnesota or nearby, and that his mom and dad went to the university of Minnesota. It was definitely a feel good story and when I first read about it, I thought that it would be a major distraction to Shane for the Final Four games but the young man apparently handled it well and he played inspired basketball that weekend.

gw67

OrangeDevil
11-04-2007, 01:11 PM
How painful it is to be forced to choose between two such obvious favorites who continue to be face(s) of the greatness of the Duke program.

That said, I choose Grant. He was the essential ingredient that gave us the breakthrough to two National titles and position us, with phenomenal all-around play, to coming within a whisker of a third.

"Grant the Great" moves on.

JasonEvans
11-04-2007, 01:13 PM
Early returns- Shane leads 12-6 after one hour of the poll.

Carlos
11-04-2007, 01:30 PM
Jason - I don't think you should give the results of the poll in the thread as it can skew the result.

JasonEvans
11-04-2007, 02:00 PM
Jason - I don't think you should give the results of the poll in the thread as it can skew the result.

Hmmmm- except there is a simple click next to the poll which allows you to see the results if you want even if you have not yet voted. Anyone who wants can see the results any time they want. This is how I get the results when I have not yet voted (and I have not voted in this poll yet).

Are you thinking it can make people vote for the person who is losing the poll to make things closer or vote for the player who is winning for some other reason?

Personally, I think it is really fun to see how the polls are going and where they have been. But, if others agree that it could be skewing the polls, I will stop.

--Jason

ArkieDukie
11-04-2007, 02:43 PM
This is much more difficult than I thought it would be. I like them both for the same reasons, and now I can't decide who to vote for. Bless your heart, Jason, but you're torturing us here.

johnb
11-04-2007, 02:56 PM
I agree that I like to see how things are going and agree that my bias is towards voting for the person who's behind.

That said, it's currently tied.

mr. synellinden
11-04-2007, 03:45 PM
How can you decide between these two? Both exuded class, leadership, sportsmanship and excellence on both sides of the ball.

I am voting for Grant. He had the "oh my god" factor - he could do things that made you jump out of your seat, like the alley-oop against Kansas and the two handed reverse baseline dunk against Michigan, although Battier had several plays that were equally great, just not quite as much in a SportsCenter kind of way. Actually, I hate the fact that super athletic plays are often highlighted more than a great defensive play (such as the block against MD in the 54 seconds game or the Forte block) or a determination play like his tip in against Arizona. I am arguing with myself here. I think when it comes down to it, my decision is simply based on my opinion that Grant was a better all-around player, but by the thinnest of margins.

I suspect that these two are so equal that Shane will win simply because more people on this board saw him play in college.

Fish80
11-04-2007, 04:09 PM
This one is torturous! Love them both. What tipped it for me was Shane's defense in his senior year championship run. Remember his two handed stuff in the Maryland game?

Indoor66
11-04-2007, 04:10 PM
This one is torturous! Love them both. What tipped it for me was Shane's defense in his senior year championship run. Remember his two handed stuff in the Maryland game?

That's funny. What tipped me to Grant was his 2 Championships and almost 3rd in '94 - when he carried the team.

Fish80
11-04-2007, 04:46 PM
I hated that Arkansas team. Early in the final game, Grant was body slammed, and I always felt that affected the rest of his game that day. Might have had a different outcome otherwise.

Lord Ash
11-04-2007, 04:54 PM
IT MUST BE SHANE!!!

While I adore Grant and we went to school at the same time and I sat RIGHT under those title banners during that heartbreaking loss to those fatties from Arkansas, and I think the world of Grant (indeed, my second favorite Dukie of all time) there can be only one, and that one is Shane.

There has never been a Dukie with more poise, more charisma, and more level-headed honor than Shane.

There has never been as defensively tenacious a player as Shane. Defense is more important than offense to me, defense means more to me, and defense a la Shane (i.e. painful, floor burns defense rather than simply one on one athletic defense) means the most to me. Three national Defensive Player of the Year awards will never be matched.

A title is nice. But at this point they don't matter to me.

But being the perfect representative of the STUDENT-athlete, of a leader, of poise and grace, of a CHAMPION heart... that is the most valuable thing. While Grant Hill certain exemplifies all of these traits, I feel like Shane came to the table with LESS God-given ability but in a way did more with it.

Shane gets my vote. Shane Battier IS Duke.

Karl Beem
11-04-2007, 05:01 PM
Where's Transformers? Isn't this the poll for greatest movie of all time?:o

YmoBeThere
11-04-2007, 05:14 PM
has a mother who roomed with our future president


So, I can blame any flaws on his mother's roommate...

Jfrosh
11-04-2007, 07:18 PM
This is like Duke - UNLV in the Semi final matchup. The final will only be a letdown. Of course we needed every bit of Grant to win those two and the following championship. Vote for Grant.

jipops
11-04-2007, 08:25 PM
My favorite Duke season was -93-'94. Grant put the entire team on his back for the full season. Amazingly, he did this while only averaging about 17 pts / game. Instead of loading up on points he got everyone involved on offense and was a total stalwart on defense. The regional final showdown with Glenn Robinson's Boilermakers (Big Dog averaged over 30) was one of the more gratifying wins I've seen. Grant's defense (and much of Antonio Lang's) held Robinson to 11 and got the W.

If only Thurman's rainbow hadn't gone down Grant would've won 3 ncaa titles in his Duke career.

I love Shane, and he's probably the best pure leader Duke has ever had, or atleast the best that I've seen. But nobody that has ever played at Duke has been able to do all the things that Grant was able to do.

Oh yeah, and both guys are very impressive people - without basketball.

ArkieDukie
11-04-2007, 08:28 PM
Leaning toward Shane, but really like Grant, too. Of all the funny memory triggers, the Grant video tribute reminded me of the '91 welcome back rally after the team won the NC. After seeing the clips of Grant's baseline move, in my mind I heard Coach K saying, "I taught him to do that." I still have the footage from that rally somewhere. I watch it on occasion; Coach K's speech still makes me smile.

In defense of the '94 Razorbacks, most of them were really good guys. Corliss Williamson just retired from the NBA and is now an assistant coach for a local historically black college. The school doesn't have many financial resources, so Corliss is working for free. Granted, he has an obscene amount of money from his NBA career, but not many people would do what he is doing. He is an all-around class act. On the other hand, during the tourney that year Nolan Richardson started the steady descent into the craziness that eventually got him fired. He ticked me off so badly in his post-game interview after the AZ game that I couldn't pull for the Hogs again until after he left.

wilson
11-04-2007, 11:04 PM
I picked Shane, my second-favorite Blue Devil ever (behind Brian Davis). This one was very tough for me, because in my eyes, either of these guys would have beaten either of the guys in the other poll. This should have been the finals.

BDevilU
11-04-2007, 11:48 PM
My theory is that the early defections and transfer of his classmates after the '99 season helped to elevate Shane in the eyes and hearts of many Duke fans. He chose to stay. He is certainly deserving of admiration, not only for that decision, but for his leadership and performance as well.

However, Grant had the same option. He certainly had the chance to leave early but also chose to stay. He took a team with far less talent than the '01 squad and had them within a fingernail of winning it all. I also considered it a travesty at the time that Grant wasn't a multiple Iba Award winner. We may even have Grant to thank for Shane. Some of the elders may correct me, but I seem to recall them working out together when Grant was with the Detroit Pistons and Shane was a high schooler at Detroit Country Day.

Grant was Shane before Shane was Grant, so to speak.

My vote is for #33.

speedevil
11-05-2007, 12:51 AM
im voting for hill

Grey Devil
11-05-2007, 01:02 AM
Grant is my choice. When I first saw the pairing I thought (probably like everyone else) that it isn't fair to have to choose between these two. They are both such great ambassadors for Duke, they both got us national championships, they both carried their teams their senior years to the final game. Admittedly Shane's team won and Grant's didn't, but IMO Shane had more talent around him then Grant. Grant played a key role in both of the runs to the titles in 91 and 92, but more importantly he almost single-handedly willed the 94 team to the NC game and that game came down to a Duke possession where an anxious freshman (who probably knows better now than to do something like that) jacked up a 3 for Duke way too early, spoiling an opportunity for Duke to pull it out and for Grant to get a third championship.

Grant has also done so much with his life outside of basketball -- his art collection, his piano skills, his devotion to his family during times of stress. He's the kind of man who makes me proud to be associated with Duke basketball.

Shane may someday demonstrate the same diversity of interests and talents (and he may someday become President, too!), but we're voting now, and right now Grant is my favorite in this pairing.

Grey Devil

dukemomLA
11-05-2007, 05:02 AM
Pretty tough choice!!!! Both are exemplary human beings, athletes, scolars, and as philanthropists. And although I've watched Grant in the NBA (through thick and thin, due to injuries), I feel that Shane was the fuel that sparked the engine of Duke BB from '97 through the 2001 championship.

wva_iron_duke
11-05-2007, 09:41 AM
I haven't decided on my vote, but to those of you who only know that Grant has an art collection that travels the country; has played jazz piano for a nationally-televised audience; has donated a million bucks to Duke; has a mother who roomed with our future president; has a father who was an NFL All Pro; and has been a great spokesman for Duke for years, well he can also play basketball. Attached is a 4 minute youtube clip that was put together by former NBA'er Yinka Dare that you might want to listen to with the sound off (or at least not pay too much attention to the words--the hip hop language is, uhm, well, not what Grant himself would actually use). It includes him blowing by Jordan, for example, as well as a certain dunk in a final four that some might recall.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6x1p46_uc7Q

Living in Reston, I got to see Grant play a lot before he matriculated so I am biased. As much as I like Shane, Grant was/is a better basketball player. Two national championships and almost a third with just him. He was the first Duke player from the Coach K. era to be a bona fide NBA all star, and was the most admired player by recruits for a generation. We are just so fortunate to even have this choice.

The Gordog
11-05-2007, 10:01 AM
IT MUST BE SHANE!!!

While I adore Grant and we went to school at the same time and I sat RIGHT under those title banners during that heartbreaking loss to those fatties from Arkansas, and I think the world of Grant (indeed, my second favorite Dukie of all time) there can be only one, and that one is Shane.

There has never been a Dukie with more poise, more charisma, and more level-headed honor than Shane.

There has never been as defensively tenacious a player as Shane. Defense is more important than offense to me, defense means more to me, and defense a la Shane (i.e. painful, floor burns defense rather than simply one on one athletic defense) means the most to me. Three national Defensive Player of the Year awards will never be matched.

A title is nice. But at this point they don't matter to me.

But being the perfect representative of the STUDENT-athlete, of a leader, of poise and grace, of a CHAMPION heart... that is the most valuable thing. While Grant Hill certain exemplifies all of these traits, I feel like Shane came to the table with LESS God-given ability but in a way did more with it.

Shane gets my vote. Shane Battier IS Duke.

While Grant may have been a better player, what with the championships and all, this poll is about favorite. Shane's charisma, his interviews, his referencing Shaolin Monks (!!!) post-game after exploding for 31 against the Tweps, his determination, his ethic. I just love the fact that Shane exists in the world. Grant rocks, he's a great ambassador and human being, but I get more juice watching Shane play the game.

Ima Facultiwyfe
11-05-2007, 10:29 AM
This is horrible....HORRIBLE! But, as inspirational as Shane has been and is, I gotta go with Grant because of one Saturday morning he gave up during his last year with us.

Our daughter had as one of her patients, a 12-year-old boy who had been shot in the head in a drive-by aimed at somebody else. He was wheel chair bound in an adult facility and hadn't walked or spoken since the episode. He was in a very low state of depression and had given up. He loved Grant Hill. Tom D'Armi got tickets for my daughter to take him to the Maryland game that year. He was so excited at the thought of getting to see Grant play, but Grant did not dress out for the game due to injury. When Grant heard about it he met our daughter at the boy's room and spent the entire morning with him. Took him outside, shot hoops, talked to him like he was an old friend and told him to work hard and not give up and that the next time he saw him he wanted to see him walking.

That was the breakthrough. The boy's family will be eternally grateful and we'll never forget it either.

Love, Ima

Jeffrey
11-05-2007, 11:22 AM
Hi,

These are my two of my three favorite Duke players (Bobby is the other one). What accolade could not be given to either of these two fine gentleman? Somebody else will need to make this call.

-Jeffrey

JasonEvans
11-05-2007, 11:51 AM
Ima, what a beautiful story. Thanks for sharing that.

I remain torn, but am leaning toward Grant at the moment. I am not sure it matters much as Shane has built a pretty nice lead of 20+ votes right now. Of course, there is still almost a full day of voting left until this poll closes.


--Jason "Shane leads 102-79 as I write this" Evans

Taco
11-05-2007, 01:18 PM
I registered just to vote for Grant in this poll.

I'm probably among the younger posters here, but I'm old enough to remember Grant Hill's college days, though not by much. I remember playing basketball with the other neighborhood kids on an adjustable backboard that had been lowered as far as it could go. The most important part of this sort of contest, of course, was which basketball player you "were" and loudly narrating your every move in an announcer voice. All the other kids argued over who got to be Michael Jordan, Magic Johnson or Larry Bird, I just wanted to be Grant Hill.

greybeard
11-05-2007, 01:33 PM
Shane seemed to maximize his potential as a player for Duke. Had Grant looked to do that, it would have been scary. He chose instead to be temperate enough to allow his teammates to excel. They did, imo reflecting the generosity of spirit by an enormous talent. It is the stuff that can lift this game above all others, and it did while Grant was at Duke.

Grant Hill gets my vote.

mapei
11-05-2007, 02:44 PM
Both these guys make me proud to be a Duke fan, but there is something about the dignified way that Shane carried himself that made him the most special among many for me. (I think of Grant as more exuberant than dignified, nothing wrong with that either.) This poll is a no-win proposition, but even more it's no-lose. I vote Shane.

ajtrublu
11-05-2007, 03:19 PM
O.k. This was cruel. Almost physically painful to pick one of these guys over the other.

After a lot of deliberation, I decided to go for Grant because there's a sentimental connection for me. Grant was at Duke right after I graduated, when I still felt like an integral part of the school (it's different once you've really faced the fact that college is over, done, kaput). And as someone who was in the building, front and center to witness "the pass," Grant will be forever etched in my little blue heart.

Of course, I was also there to witness the back-of-the-hand tip and hear One Shining Moment. THIS SUCKS! Can't I vote for both?

ajtrublu
11-05-2007, 03:25 PM
This is horrible....HORRIBLE! But, as inspirational as Shane has been and is, I gotta go with Grant because of one Saturday morning he gave up during his last year with us.

Our daughter had as one of her patients, a 12-year-old boy who had been shot in the head in a drive-by aimed at somebody else. He was wheel chair bound in an adult facility and hadn't walked or spoken since the episode. He was in a very low state of depression and had given up. He loved Grant Hill. Tom D'Armi got tickets for my daughter to take him to the Maryland game that year. He was so excited at the thought of getting to see Grant play, but Grant did not dress out for the game due to injury. When Grant heard about it he met our daughter at the boy's room and spent the entire morning with him. Took him outside, shot hoops, talked to him like he was an old friend and told him to work hard and not give up and that the next time he saw him he wanted to see him walking.

That was the breakthrough. The boy's family will be eternally grateful and we'll never forget it either.

Love, Ima

Thanks for sharing that story. How can you not be proud to be associated with this guy? Both of these guys, for that matter.

ArkieDukie
11-05-2007, 06:10 PM
I originally intended to vote for Shane, but I changed my mind and voted for Grant. All the stories helped me remember what I liked so much about Grant and reminded me of one of my favorite Grant moments: does anyone else remember his interview after being selected in the 1994 NBA Draft? We had just been "treated" to the guys selected ahead of him (Glenn Robinson and Jason Kidd) talking about how much money they were going to make, and then Grant said something to the effect of, "It really doesn't matter how much money I get; I'd rather spread it around and get some other good players on the team." It was a breath of fresh air.

dukemsu
11-05-2007, 11:33 PM
I don't know how you pick this one. The only reason I'm picking Shane is for his demonstrative leadership-not that Grant wasn't a leader. It could be argued that Grant was an even more effective leader, using the 94 run as an example.

No real reason-this is the ultimate splitting hairs vote. Maybe it's cause Shane had to come back from a tough losses in 98 and 99-that made 01's convincing National Championship just a bit sweeter.

gep
11-05-2007, 11:45 PM
I voted "for" Shane. One more tid-bit (IIRC)... when Shane went for his admissions interview, the admissions officer at that time went home to tell his wife the he just met a future president of the US... (disclosure... I've not followed Duke basketball as much back in Grant's time to know much more than I've read here about Grant)

JasonEvans
11-06-2007, 09:07 AM
By 23 votes, Shane Battier has defeated Grant Hill. It was 55%-45%, which is actually a pretty close vote. Mad props to Shane. He moves on to face Johnny Dawkins in the finals.

--Jason "JD vs. Shane... clash of the titans!!" Evans