View Full Version : NC State Receives NoA from NCAA related to recruitment of Dennis Smith Jr.
Wahoo2000
07-10-2019, 09:04 PM
Came here to get the often-excellent thoughts and opinions on this story and was shocked there wasn't a thread started. So I guess I'll begin my first thread ever here.
On a Duke board.
About an NC State issue.
From a UVA poster.
Hmmmmm....... I *might* have too much time on my hands.
Anyway......... on to the issue:
Quick glance at PackPride, and unsurprisingly (especially after UNC escaped their recent much-publicized NCAA issues with no penalty whatsoever) they are beyond livid and absolutely CERTAIN they'll get hammered for this. Can't say I blame them too much, but hire a guy like Gottfried and you kiiiind of reap what you sow. Personally, with the key players all gone, and them having never benefitted all that much from the "scheme" I hope they don't get hammered too hard.
NCAA gives N.C. State notice of allegations connected to recruitment of Dennis Smith Jr. (https://collegebasketball.nbcsports.com/2019/07/10/ncaa-gives-n-c-state-notice-of-allegations-connected-to-recruitment-of-dennis-smith-jr/)
SlapTheFloor
07-10-2019, 09:22 PM
I'm sure they will follow the UNC game plan and hire an army of lawyers.
Pghdukie
07-10-2019, 09:32 PM
They have. St has retained the same law firm that represented the cheats.
bundabergdevil
07-10-2019, 09:38 PM
I'm sure they will follow the UNC game plan and hire an army of lawyers.
Don't you mean pack?
PackMan97
07-10-2019, 10:31 PM
I'm sure they will follow the UNC game plan and hire an army of lawyers.
I sure as heck hope we don't. The NC State I know and love has honor and integrity. Our program broke the rules, they need to be punished. That said, the allegations against NC State are actually fairly mild and I think we get a slap on the wrist as a program. There are four allegations.
▪ One by former assistant coach Orlando Early in connection to a $40,000 payment during Smith’s recruitment and providing more than $6,600 in impermissible benefits to Smith’s family and associates in the form of excessive complimentary tickets to N.C. State games during Smith’s tenure.
▪ One by former head coach Mark Gottfried for a failure to monitor Early, during Smith’s recruitment; and failure to monitor distribution of excessive complimentary tickets.
According to the details in the NOA, Smith’s family received $4,562 in the form of 106 complimentary tickets to 13 games during the 2016-17 season. Shawn Farmer, an associate and former trainer of Smith, received $2,119 in the form of 44 complimentary tickets to 26 different games.
There are also two Level II violations in the NOA:
▪ One for the provision of the excessive complimentary tickets to Smith’s family and the associates of three other former players.
▪ One, specific to the school, for the failure to monitor the provision of the complimentary tickets.
So, my guess is Gottfried and Early get the good ol' "Show Cause" for 5+ years and retire from coaching.
The two allegations that involve NC State are with regards to comp tickets and I guess we perhaps lose a scholarship for a year or two. We also have to erase from our record books Smith's one season, which is fine since it was so forgettable.
It could have been a lot worse.
I'm sure they will follow the UNC game plan and hire an army of lawyers.
Don't you mean pack?
A group of lawyers is more appropriately referred to as a frenzy, a school, a herd, a gam or a shiver.
Reilly
07-10-2019, 11:46 PM
A group of lawyers is more appropriately referred to as a frenzy, a school, a herd, a gam or a shiver.
Have you no pride?
sagegrouse
07-11-2019, 12:15 AM
A group of lawyers is more appropriately referred to as a frenzy, a school, a herd, a gam or a shiver.
I thought we buy lawyers by the case?
I sure as heck hope we don't. The NC State I know and love has honor and integrity. Our program broke the rules, they need to be punished. That said, the allegations against NC State are actually fairly mild and I think we get a slap on the wrist as a program. There are four allegations.
So, my guess is Gottfried and Early get the good ol' "Show Cause" for 5+ years and retire from coaching.
The two allegations that involve NC State are with regards to comp tickets and I guess we perhaps lose a scholarship for a year or two. We also have to erase from our record books Smith's one season, which is fine since it was so forgettable.
It could have been a lot worse.
I thought I read somewhere that smith played in 32 games. Does that mean that all 32 games are now vacated? Or just the wins... or anything :confused:
mkirsh
07-11-2019, 01:11 AM
I sure as heck hope we don't. The NC State I know and love has honor and integrity. Our program broke the rules, they need to be punished. That said, the allegations against NC State are actually fairly mild and I think we get a slap on the wrist as a program. There are four allegations.
So, my guess is Gottfried and Early get the good ol' "Show Cause" for 5+ years and retire from coaching.
The two allegations that involve NC State are with regards to comp tickets and I guess we perhaps lose a scholarship for a year or two. We also have to erase from our record books Smith's one season, which is fine since it was so forgettable.
It could have been a lot worse.
So Dennis Smith didn’t drop 32 in a win in Cameron? That makes me feel better now
Indoor66
07-11-2019, 08:25 AM
A group of lawyers is more appropriately referred to as a frenzy, a school, a herd, a gam or a shiver.
How about a murder?
PackMan97
07-11-2019, 08:51 AM
I thought I read somewhere that smith played in 32 games. Does that mean that all 32 games are now vacated? Or just the wins... or anything :confused:
Unfortunately, you don't get to vacate losses, of which their were many. /sob
When ordered to vacate a season, you are also supposed to vacate all the records and stats for that season as well, but as we've seen with the Cheaters, that doesn't really mean anything other than an asterisk in the media guide.
The more I think about this, the better I feel for NC State. This was directly mainly at the coaches and not the school. I think State is benefiting from the Kansas and Arizona effect. In other words, the NCAA is looking for a way to drop the hammer on the coaches involved and wrist slap the schools. The worst charge directed at NC State is failing to monitor comp tickets, and if I had to guess I'd say we had something to monitor that the Gottfried and Early bypassed in an unethical manner.
I wouldn't surprise me to see similar NOA's at the other schools involved. Heavily focused on the coaches with a few level II violations targeted at the school.
bundabergdevil
07-11-2019, 09:03 AM
How about a murder?
You guys made me actually look this up. According to the googles, a group of lawyers may be referred to as "Disputation, Eloquence, Escheat, Greed, Huddle, Quarrel".
A group of mother-in-laws may be called a "mutter". Ha!
The things you learn...
You guys made me actually look this up. According to the googles, a group of lawyers may be referred to as "Disputation, Eloquence, Escheat, Greed, Huddle, Quarrel".
A group of mother-in-laws may be called a "mutter". Ha!
The things you learn...
A group of lawyers is only called an "eloquence" when assembled in a bar, and then they are not as eloquent as they think they are.
AGDukesky
07-11-2019, 09:21 AM
I recall something about a group of lawyers falling off a cliff. I believe the term was a “goodstart”...
mkirsh
07-11-2019, 09:38 AM
You guys made me actually look this up. According to the googles, a group of lawyers may be referred to as "Disputation, Eloquence, Escheat, Greed, Huddle, Quarrel".
A group of mother-in-laws may be called a "mutter". Ha!
The things you learn...
Is that like the Six Sigmas: teamwork, insight, brutality, male enhancement, handshakefulness, and play hard?
https://vimeo.com/24784020
wilson
07-11-2019, 09:45 AM
You guys made me actually look this up. According to the googles, a group of lawyers may be referred to as "Disputation, Eloquence, Escheat, Greed, Huddle, Quarrel".
A group of mother-in-laws may be called a "mutter". Ha!
The things you learn...This post much better if read in Joe Pesci's voice
OldPhiKap
07-11-2019, 09:51 AM
A doctor, a lawyer, and an engineer were arguing over which of their three professions was oldest.
"Well, of course it's medicine" proclaimed the doctor. "If you read the Book of Genesis, God took a rib from Adam to create Eve. That is an act of surgery,"
"Ah, but engineering is even older than that," replied the engineer. "Before that, Genesis tells us that there was chaos and that God then created order in the first few days. That is clearly a feat of civil engineering."
"Nah, the legal profession is even older than that" said the lawyer. "Who do you think created the chaos in the first place?"
(Note that jokes comparing lawyers to "the oldest profession in the world," while legion, are pretty trite).
-- OPK, Esq.
bundabergdevil
07-11-2019, 09:51 AM
This post much better if read in Joe Pesci's voice
Vinny Gambini:
Yeah, everything that guy just said is bull... Thank you.
PackMan97
07-11-2019, 09:57 AM
Vinny Gambini:
Yeah, everything that guy just said is I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.... Thank you.
As a spouse of a lawyer, I hate you all! Not all lawyer are mean evil people.
UrinalCake
07-11-2019, 10:04 AM
Just claim that non-athletes were also given money, and that any incriminating evidence was a typo. Problem solved!
Seriously though, it seems pretty clear that the violations happened and the school should be punished. I’d expect the season to be vacated. Moving forward they may face some mild recruiting restrictions and a probationary period. I wouldn’t expect postseason bans, though I suppose it’s possible. Gottfried (now the coach at Cal State Northridge) may have to sit a few games, probably less than the 10-ish that Boeheim got a few years back.
The more significant impact from a broad perspective is this will set a precedent for future cases involving payments to players that are yet to be investigated.
As a spouse of a lawyer, I hate you all! Not all lawyer are mean evil people.
Reminds me of the lawyer that dies and goes to heaven. St. Peter escorts her to her new residence, a sprawling mansion the likes of which were never even imagined on earth, every possible amenity and entertainment a person could want. As they approach the door, the lawyer sees St John Paul exiting the carriage house on the estate. Perplexed she asks St Peter why John Paul the Great was in the carriage house. St Peter replies: "He lives there." "But how could one of the greatest popes of all times, A SAINT, live in a carriage house of a vast and magnificent estate that I, a lowly lawyer, have been given?"
"Simple, we have over 250* popes up here. You're our first lawyer."
Not all lawyers are mean and evil. Some were patent attorneys ;)
*An estimate, maybe generous. Pretty sure that there aren't 264 "up" there.
Indoor66
07-11-2019, 11:40 AM
As a spouse of a lawyer, I hate you all! Not all lawyer are mean evil people.
Maybe not your spouse...but....
OldPhiKap
07-11-2019, 01:32 PM
Like all professions, there are many lawyers who are pillars of their communities, churches, and civic organizations.
Then there are bad apples that give the whole profession a bad name.
Anyway, it is ironic that NC State is gonna get slapped by the NCAA and UNC skated.
Like all professions, there are many lawyers who are pillars of their communities, churches, and civic organizations.
Then there are bad apples that give the whole profession a bad name.
...
Yeah, like those who interject reason into a thread a derail the humor of making fun of the profession!
Other than politicians, lawyers are the only group of people we can make fun of any more!
Well. and tar heels. But they deserve it!
lotusland
07-11-2019, 02:56 PM
I have a friend who is both a lawyer and a UNC grad. Several times in his company I’ve encountered a venomous snake including, a music festival, mountain bike trail and his back yard. He claims coincidence but I’ve heard him whispering in parsel tongue.
plimnko
07-11-2019, 03:04 PM
How about a murder?
isn't that what the cheats did to their ethics?
OldPhiKap
07-11-2019, 03:08 PM
isn't that what the cheats did to their ethics?
"Ethics" in Tar Heel terms always reminds me of the beginning of Miller's Crossing.
If you can't trust a fixed fight, what can you trust? So I gotta kill the guy selling out the fixes. It's a matter of ethics.
HereBeforeCoachK
07-11-2019, 03:16 PM
So Dennis Smith didn’t drop 32 in a win in Cameron? That makes me feel better now
I was surrounded by State fans at a Carolina Ale House for that game......they were so smug.....I told 'em "enjoy the NIT" - and of course, they didn't even make the NIT that season....
HereBeforeCoachK
07-11-2019, 03:17 PM
there are many lawyers who are pillars of their communities
.
Don't you mean "pillagers of their communities..."
Bob Green
07-11-2019, 03:37 PM
N.C. State will most likely get slapped on the hand which they deserve because they're the ones who hired Gottfried. The NCAA is going to go after the coaches not the schools. I don't have a problem with that approach because the coaches are the primary problem. However, the schools are a problem even if they are a secondary problem so they deserve some form of punishment.
Neals384
07-11-2019, 03:48 PM
How about a murder?
that would be a group of crows.
devildeac
07-11-2019, 04:07 PM
that would be a group of crows.
But, who's Counting?
zippy_the_cat
07-11-2019, 04:19 PM
Art Chansky is claiming that NCSU passed up a more lucrative offer from Nike to re-sign with adidas because Gottfried knew, and informed Yow, that adidas was paying Smith. OK, questionable source, I agree, but the timeline kinda matches (NCSU re-signed with adidas in November 2015 and Smith elected to early-graduate high school the next month). And there's at least one falsifiable claim: if Nike offered more, that should be checkable via public-records requests.
https://chapelboro.com/sports/chanskys-notebook-ho-ho-ho-for-state?fbclid=IwAR0Oy77J6x0MRHKsOjItawxyfhmxnORJPqt uzDeca2YQtebrIhg7ZmYmQbc
lotusland
07-11-2019, 04:36 PM
Just curious - does Smith have a shoe contract with Adidas now?
lotusland
07-11-2019, 04:41 PM
Just curious - does Smith have a shoe contract with Adidas now?
Never mind I think I found the answer. Looks like Adidas paid his family $46K and he still signed with UA??
https://ballershoesdb.com/players/dennis-smith-jr/
Bob Green
07-11-2019, 04:42 PM
Just curious - does Smith have a shoe contract with Adidas now?
No. He signed with Under Armour:
https://www.sbnation.com/2017/8/8/16112342/dennis-smith-jr-under-armour-shoe-deal
"Ethics" in Tar Heel terms always reminds me of the beginning of Miller's Crossing.
If you can't trust a fixed fight, what can you trust? So I gotta kill the guy selling out the fixes. It's a matter of ethics.
Just curious - does Smith have a shoe contract with Adidas now?
Never mind I think I found the answer. Looks like Adidas paid his family $46K and he still signed with UA??
https://ballershoesdb.com/players/dennis-smith-jr/
If you can't trust a kid who is bought and paid for, who can you trust?
Acymetric
07-12-2019, 03:49 PM
Art Chansky is claiming that NCSU passed up a more lucrative offer from Nike to re-sign with adidas because Gottfried knew, and informed Yow, that adidas was paying Smith. OK, questionable source, I agree, but the timeline kinda matches (NCSU re-signed with adidas in November 2015 and Smith elected to early-graduate high school the next month). And there's at least one falsifiable claim: if Nike offered more, that should be checkable via public-records requests.
https://chapelboro.com/sports/chanskys-notebook-ho-ho-ho-for-state?fbclid=IwAR0Oy77J6x0MRHKsOjItawxyfhmxnORJPqt uzDeca2YQtebrIhg7ZmYmQbc
That doesn't make any sense. Pass up a long term lucrative deal with Nike...to get Dennis Smith? I wouldn't believe that coming from anyone without hard evidence. I certainly don't believe it from Art Chansky, who has about as much credibility as the Nigerian Prince who emailed me this morning.
Indoor66
07-12-2019, 04:53 PM
That doesn't make any sense. Pass up a long term lucrative deal with Nike...to get Dennis Smith? I wouldn't believe that coming from anyone without hard evidence. I certainly don't believe it from Art Chansky, who has about as much credibility as the Nigerian Prince who emailed me this morning.
There is a very slight chance the Prince might be accurate. The other....
zippy_the_cat
07-12-2019, 06:50 PM
That doesn't make any sense. Pass up a long term lucrative deal with Nike...to get Dennis Smith? I wouldn't believe that coming from anyone without hard evidence. I certainly don't believe it from Art Chansky, who has about as much credibility as the Nigerian Prince who emailed me this morning.
As I say, a dubious source. But I don't recollect anyone ever pulling the bid documents for a look-see after NCSU re-upped with adidas. Chansky's making a checkable claim on that score. He's either right, or he's not. And let's remember, the Pack was hoping to land not just Smith but a couple of other guys that were rumored to be interested in teaming up with him.
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