UConn To Rejoin Big East?

[sagegrouse]

ESPN has a story that UConn will vote to move from the AAC to the Big East in the coming days:


Jeff Borzello/Mark Schlabach

UConn is expected to leave the American Athletic Conference and return to the Big East for basketball and other sports in 2020, sources told ESPN.

Nothing is official at this point, but an announcement could come as early as next week, sources said. The UConn Board of Trustees has not yet voted on the move, but approval is expected.

UConn has become much less relevant in hoops since Calhoun left, and I guess that is part of the motivation for going back to the Big East.

That would leave the question of what happens to UConn football, inasmuch as the Big East does not have football.

The AAC currently has 12 full members. Navy is an associate member for football (replacing Wichita State, a full member that does not participate in football). Sage here guesses that the AAC would not look kindly on UConn, having spurned the AAC, rejoining as an associate member for football only. The article mentions the AAC possibly adding Army or Air Force as football only plus another strong basketball school.

[budwom]

yeah, big time hoops players knew the Big East, no one knew the AAC...would love to see UConn thwarted again if that's possible...

[brevity]

UConn has an identity crisis. Right now they are a women’s basketball school that downgraded their conference affiliation for football. Men’s basketball is down for now, but UConn is essentially Big East level in basketball and AAC/Group of Five level in football.

Returning to the Big East for basketball (and maybe all other non-football sports) makes sense. If the AAC won’t keep them for football, maybe a semi-lateral move to another Group of Five conference like the MAC is in order.

[MChambers]

UConn has an identity crisis. Right now they are a women’s basketball school that downgraded their conference affiliation for football. Men’s basketball is down for now, but UConn is essentially Big East level in basketball and AAC/Group of Five level in football.

Returning to the Big East for basketball (and maybe all other non-football sports) makes sense. If the AAC won’t keep them for football, maybe a semi-lateral move to another Group of Five conference like the MAC is in order.

Like UNC, they are overshadowed in basketball by a nearby private school, Yale.

[Natty_B]

4 titles in the last 20 years. Nobody has more right?

[hallcity]

Boy did they screw the pooch when they sued the ACC. Maybe the ACC wouldn’t have been interested anyway but that lawsuit made them permanently persona non grata.

[sagegrouse]

A handsome sum at that:


Conference bylaws require UConn to pay a $10 million withdrawal fee and give 27 months' notice before leaving, but the Huskies are expected to join the Big East in 2020.Per ESPN.

[arnie]

A handsome sum at that:

Per ESPN.

Didn’t Maryland fight the payout amount and the ACC negotiated a lower #? UConvict can go that route.

[4Gen]

Didn’t Maryland fight the payout amount and the ACC negotiated a lower #? UConvict can go that route.

How much did the ACC end up paying?

[arnie]

How much did the ACC end up paying?

Google says 31 mill vs 51 mill if not contested.

[4Gen]

Google says 31 mill vs 51 mill if not contested.

Joke too subtle?

[Kdogg]

Boy did they screw the pooch when they sued the ACC. Maybe the ACC wouldn’t have been interested anyway but that lawsuit made them permanently persona non grata.

Weren’t current ACC members Pitt and VTech part of that lawsuit? UCON didn’t bring any new TV market so the ACC gets nothing.

I didn’t know the Big East even extended an invite. They will get some of the traditional rivalries but UCON will be the only public non religiously affiliated school in the conference. It seems they don’t really match anyone.

[sagegrouse]

Didn’t Maryland fight the payout amount and the ACC negotiated a lower #? UConvict can go that route.


How much did the ACC end up paying?

Maryland owed $52.2 million. It, of course, sued and the settlement was $31.4 million (https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/college/2014/08/08/acc-maryland-settle-lawsuits-buyout-big-ten-conference/13781545/).

[arnie]

Joke too subtle?

Yea, I read right past that one😏

[budwom]

Boy did they screw the pooch when they sued the ACC. Maybe the ACC wouldn’t have been interested anyway but that lawsuit made them permanently persona non grata.

BC blackballed UCONN from the ACC, for which I shall always be grateful.

[HereBeforeCoachK]

Maryland owed $52.2 million. It, of course, sued and the settlement was $31.4 million (https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/college/2014/08/08/acc-maryland-settle-lawsuits-buyout-big-ten-conference/13781545/).

So the winner is............THE LAWYERS from both sides....

[Chicken Little]

Saw a buzz on Twitter suggesting that The American's offices should be on the phone with BYU, Air Force and one other MW school (CSU?) now. Go to 14, have 2/3 Academies. Interesting theory, but travel would be horrendous.

I'm just happy to see Danny Hurley's sideline antics gone from my team's conference. Great talent, but what a maroon.

[wsb3]

BC blackballed UCONN from the ACC, for which I shall always be grateful.

Agree, I already hate the current version of the ACC enough without adding UCONN. And you #@%&*** kids get off my Lawn!

[OldPhiKap]

Agree, I already hate the current version of the ACC enough without adding UCONN. And you #@%&*** kids get off my Lawn!

We should have never left the Southern Conference.

[wsb3]

We should have never left the Southern Conference.

😂😂😂 Can't spork you but thanks for the chuckle OPK

[Billy Dat]

I am no lover of UConn, but they belong in the Big East and Danny Hurley's going to have that program back on its feet in short order. This is a good move for college basketball, now all they have to do is take back BC, Syracuse and Pitt.

[subzero02]

I am no lover of UConn, but they belong in the Big East and Danny Hurley's going to have that program back on its feet in short order. This is a good move for college basketball, now all they have to do is take back BC, Syracuse and Pitt.

They can take back BC and Pitt; I like Cuse. It'll be interesting to see if UCONN is able to challenge Villanova for the top spot in the Big East within the next few years.

[HereBeforeCoachK]

I am no lover of UConn, but they belong in the Big East and Danny Hurley's going to have that program back on its feet in short order. This is a good move for college basketball, now all they have to do is take back BC, Syracuse and Pitt.

Are you saying you are in favor of the Big East taking BC, Cuse and Pitt back?

[OldPhiKap]

I am no lover of UConn, but they belong in the Big East and Danny Hurley's going to have that program back on its feet in short order. This is a good move for college basketball, now all they have to do is take back BC, Syracuse and Pitt.

Don’t forget VTech.

[AtlDuke72]

Don’t forget VTech.

Any chance it would take Miami too?

[OldPhiKap]

Any chance it would take Miami too?

Throw in Louisville too, and you have a deal.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Throw in Louisville too, and you have a deal.

Can we toss in UNC for good measure? Like, as a "thank you?"

[DarkstarWahoo]

Don’t forget VTech.

Your lips, God's ears, etc.

[Billy Dat]

Are you saying you are in favor of the Big East taking BC, Cuse and Pitt back?

I haven't analyzed it from a financial, football or any strategic perspective. I am saying that I grew up in Big East country and those schools are Big East schools to me. While I have enjoyed the Duke v Syracuse games, they mean more to Syracuse then they do to us. It won't happen, but I wouldn't mind it.

[HereBeforeCoachK]

I haven't analyzed it from a financial, football or any strategic perspective. I am saying that I grew up in Big East country and those schools are Big East schools to me. While I have enjoyed the Duke v Syracuse games, they mean more to Syracuse then they do to us. It won't happen, but I wouldn't mind it.

I agree with everything you say above, only adding that when you analyze it from a football/financia/strategic standpoint, this was necessary to keep the ACC top tier. The Big Ten, the SEC, the Big 12 and the PAC 12 were going to stay top tier......the fifth member was going to be whoever won the bidding war between the Big East and the ACC.

I don't love it, but this is the price of admission to the P5. And if we weren't P5, FSU, Clemson and VaT would've bolted. The ACC woulda been irrelevant except for the Duke Carolina hoops rivalry - but it's not a slam dunk those two programs wouldv'e stayed where they've stayed in a weak conference.

[luvdahops]

I agree with everything you say above, only adding that when you analyze it from a football/financia/strategic standpoint, this was necessary to keep the ACC top tier. The Big Ten, the SEC, the Big 12 and the PAC 12 were going to stay top tier...the fifth member was going to be whoever won the bidding war between the Big East and the ACC.

I don't love it, but this is the price of admission to the P5. And if we weren't P5, FSU, Clemson and VaT would've bolted. The ACC woulda been irrelevant except for the Duke Carolina hoops rivalry - but it's not a slam dunk those two programs wouldv'e stayed where they've stayed in a weak conference.

A few years ago there was a blog piece on, I believe, the Sporting News website (when that was still a thing) on a theoretical reversing of recent expansion, and realigning into conferences with no more than 10 teams to allow a full round robin in football and home and home schedule in hoops. I don't have it saved anywhere, so am doing this from memory, but the proposed Big East in that exercise was as follows:

BC
Syracuse
UConn
Rutgers
Pitt
Penn State
West Virginia
Virginia Tech
Miami
Notre Dame*

I recall the ACC being the 9 team league from the 90s plus South Carolina (along with Arkansas, Missouri and Texas A&M, a casualty of the SEC shrinking back to 10).

None of this will ever happen, of course, but it was interesting food for thought.

[DarkstarWahoo]

I love getting crazy into the weeds on this stuff, so here's some scattered thoughts:

- The academies are a non-starter for the American. The Mountain West is not going to let Air Force bail for football and remain in the conference for other sports. And Air Force is not going to leave the Mountain West and its decades-old regional rivals to fly 2,500 miles to play at East Carolina. Army's football resurgence has been tied to improved coaching and a softer schedule, which is possible because of its independent status. Its time in CUSA was a disaster. No need to change anything.
- My favorite AAC candidate...UAB. Respected academic university, long history with the old CUSA schools, solid facilities, attendance near top of conference, in a football-crazy area, in the footprint. Old Dominion and Charlotte also make sense - Charlotte would probably already be a member if they'd started football when USF did.
- Anyone know how much UConn owes on that money pit of a stadium? Their decision to chase Lord God Football has to be one of the worst in recent memory.
- Really looking forward to those 110-40 scorelines when the UConn women play the Xaviers and Seton Halls of the world.

[ChillinDuke]

I love getting crazy into the weeds on this stuff, so here's some scattered thoughts:

- The academies are a non-starter for the American. The Mountain West is not going to let Air Force bail for football and remain in the conference for other sports. And Air Force is not going to leave the Mountain West and its decades-old regional rivals to fly 2,500 miles to play at East Carolina. Army's football resurgence has been tied to improved coaching and a softer schedule, which is possible because of its independent status. Its time in CUSA was a disaster. No need to change anything.
- My favorite AAC candidate...UAB. Respected academic university, long history with the old CUSA schools, solid facilities, attendance near top of conference, in a football-crazy area, in the footprint. Old Dominion and Charlotte also make sense - Charlotte would probably already be a member if they'd started football when USF did.
- Anyone know how much UConn owes on that money pit of a stadium? Their decision to chase Lord God Football has to be one of the worst in recent memory.
- Really looking forward to those 110-40 scorelines when the UConn women play the Xaviers and Seton Halls of the world.

Yeah, I always find this stuff interesting. And your scattered thoughts are interesting as well.

The smartest thing Duke ever did in this whole Realignment Era is invest (heavily) in football. How quickly people forget that if the ACC crumbled back in ~2010 or whatever it was (a distinct possibility before we did the Grant of Rights and added Pitt and Syracuse and later added Notre Dame with a 4-game annual ACC schedule which effectively sealed our conference from poachers) Duke would have almost undoubtedly been on the outside looking in. There would not have been a chair for Duke when the Realignment music stopped. We were that bad in football, and football was (is) everything.

But no more! I think it's safe to say that Duke has easily distanced itself from the bottom feeders (in many leagues) and would be accepted someplace, somewhere in the Doomsday realignment scenario - although that risk is lessened at this point.

- Chillin

[Billy Dat]

Where is DBR's resident UConn fan, uh_no, when we need him, to weigh in on this topic?

[budwom]

Scathing article in USA TOday, i believe it was, saying UCONN has "thrown in the towel" on football...not sure if they see it that way, but they are in something of a fix...

[English]

Scathing article in USA TOday, i believe it was, saying UCONN has "thrown in the towel" on football...not sure if they see it that way, but they are in something of a fix...

Someone better tell UConn that because there are conflicting reports...like, directly from UConn (via Twitter), and from Andy Katz. Katz reports:

"The @UConnHuskies are not giving up on @UConnFootball (see below). Plan will be to go independent in ‘20-21 once rest of sports move to @BIGEAST. The hope is football can schedule regionally well, keep existing P5 H/H and a few one-way guarantees with goal being bowl eligible."

Now, whether they win enough of their games to actually become bowl eligible is another thing entirely.

[AustinDevil]

Someone better tell UConn that because there are conflicting reports...like, directly from UConn (via Twitter), and from Andy Katz. Katz reports:

"The @UConnHuskies are not giving up on @UConnFootball (see below). Plan will be to go independent in ‘20-21 once rest of sports move to @BIGEAST. The hope is football can schedule regionally well, keep existing P5 H/H and a few one-way guarantees with goal being bowl eligible."

Now, whether they win enough of their games to actually become bowl eligible is another thing entirely.

Translation: There's no realistic plan for football whatsoever, and they are just desperate to get some of their traditional basketball rivalries back. Meanwhile, the American has a new deal with ESPN that's about to start paying a lot more per school. (Not P5 money, but many times over what any other G5 league gets.) I love that UConn will miss out on that.

[HereBeforeCoachK]

Translation: There's no realistic plan for football whatsoever, and they are just desperate to get some of their traditional basketball rivalries back. Meanwhile, the American has a new deal with ESPN that's about to start paying a lot more per school. (Not P5 money, but many times over what any other G5 league gets.) I love that UConn will miss out on that.

But with them rejoining the Big East for hoops - ESPN will give them millions in free adoring coverage every year.

[uh_no]

Where is DBR's resident UConn fan, uh_no, when we need him, to weigh in on this topic?

what do you want to know? the AAC had early success with UL's vacated title, and uconn's title with calhoun's last class. Kevin Ollie failed miserably as a coach.

Uconn had to make a bet, so far that didn't work. Villanova has won two titles since, and the league largely has gotten more respect than the AAC.

The risk here is that villanova doesn't maintain the success they've had over the past several years, and the league falls off.


UConn as a school lives and dies on M/W basketball...they don't have much else other than other than an olympic sport success here and there....it put them on the national radar. With the state (largely) in shambles, it was nice to have SOMETHING positive to attract students to the university. The women's program has continued to thrive with their OOC scheduling, but that's far harder on the men's side.

So i'm not sure what the take is, but people will be far more intersted in their playing nova, GT, and SJU than whoever the hell was in the AAC. There will ALWAYS be a soft spot for the 'old' big east (watch the 30/30 to get even a sliver of understanding about what it meant in the northeast) but it ain't comin' back...and the current BE is the closest thing. football is dead at uconn and the northeast in general. I don't resent that, it's just a fact...and personally, I think football will lose some of its dominance as the premier sport in this country...but that's all speculation.

Anyway, I'm happy to see them in the BE. I'll always miss the "old days," but times change. There's a lot I don't like about college sports anymore, and to some degree, duke and uconn both highlight parts of it.

[pfrduke]

But with them rejoining the Big East for hoops - ESPN will give them millions in free adoring coverage every year.

Big East has a broadcast contract with Fox now. Very few Big East games on the worldwide leader.

[HereBeforeCoachK]

Big East has a broadcast contract with Fox now. Very few Big East games on the worldwide leader.

Well that might dull this a bit, but ESPN's love of UConn has to do with proximity.....just like their love of the old Hartford Whalers (and now antipathy towards the Carolina Hurricanes.) Don't discount locality.

[English]

To me, this has to be viewed through two separate lenses: 1) financial; 2) relevance*.

Financially, this seems like a disaster for UConn--as was mentioned above, the AAC's revenue split across conference teams is miles beyond what the Big East gets. For a state school in a state that's in some financial disarray, which just invested heavily in its football facilities, this is puzzling. Even a trash heap football program at the bottom of its conference standings (e.g., UConn) gets the same slice of the pie as the top programs, excluding the bowl money.

Purely for basketball relevance, this seems like a win for UConn. But, that assumes it can get back to its past glory as a consistently competitive program, which has yet to be seen. I suspect Danny Hurley will get them there in reasonably short order, but that's no guarantee. Middle-of-the-pack in the Big East doesn't scream national relevance to me (although it does suggest more relevance than middle-of-the-pack in the AAC). I think it's clear what the impact on UConn's football relevance will be, now that they're joining a conference with literally no football competition.

Again, to me, this seems like a pursuit of basketball relevance at the sacrifice of financial gain and football existence (slight hyperbole, but not much).

*Men's basketball relevance

[JasonEvans]

I doubt anyone here noticed, but Danny Hurley had a pretty nice recruiting year for UConn in his first full season as head coach. 247 rates their class #21 in the nation and he brought in 3 kids who are top 100 recruits. He also got an outstanding transfer in RJ Cole, who averaged better than 22 ppg in his two seasons at Howard and was MEAC player of the year this past season.

-Jason "It would seem that Danny has UConn headed back toward being a very strong program and likely one of the annual contenders in the Big East" Evans

[budwom]

To me, this has to be viewed through two separate lenses: 1) financial; 2) relevance*.

Financially, this seems like a disaster for UConn--as was mentioned above, the AAC's revenue split across conference teams is miles beyond what the Big East gets. For a state school in a state that's in some financial disarray, which just invested heavily in its football facilities, this is puzzling. Even a trash heap football program at the bottom of its conference standings (e.g., UConn) gets the same slice of the pie as the top programs, excluding the bowl money.

Purely for basketball relevance, this seems like a win for UConn. But, that assumes it can get back to its past glory as a consistently competitive program, which has yet to be seen. I suspect Danny Hurley will get them there in reasonably short order, but that's no guarantee. Middle-of-the-pack in the Big East doesn't scream national relevance to me (although it does suggest more relevance than middle-of-the-pack in the AAC). I think it's clear what the impact on UConn's football relevance will be, now that they're joining a conference with literally no football competition.

Again, to me, this seems like a pursuit of basketball relevance at the sacrifice of financial gain and football existence (slight hyperbole, but not much).

*Men's basketball relevance

Evidently they have a $40 million hole in their athletics budget...and despite having a new on campus facility for football training,offices, etc, they still play their games 23 miles away in East Hartford...so I have no idea what their football path forward is, except I hope it's bumpy with lots of ticks.

[ChillinDuke]

To me, this has to be viewed through two separate lenses: 1) financial; 2) relevance*.

Financially, this seems like a disaster for UConn--as was mentioned above, the AAC's revenue split across conference teams is miles beyond what the Big East gets. For a state school in a state that's in some financial disarray, which just invested heavily in its football facilities, this is puzzling. Even a trash heap football program at the bottom of its conference standings (e.g., UConn) gets the same slice of the pie as the top programs, excluding the bowl money.

Purely for basketball relevance, this seems like a win for UConn. But, that assumes it can get back to its past glory as a consistently competitive program, which has yet to be seen. I suspect Danny Hurley will get them there in reasonably short order, but that's no guarantee. Middle-of-the-pack in the Big East doesn't scream national relevance to me (although it does suggest more relevance than middle-of-the-pack in the AAC). I think it's clear what the impact on UConn's football relevance will be, now that they're joining a conference with literally no football competition.

Again, to me, this seems like a pursuit of basketball relevance at the sacrifice of financial gain and football existence (slight hyperbole, but not much).

*Men's basketball relevance

And that is what is most interesting to me. How do you view something through two separate lenses when the consequences are completely intertwined?

I agree with your view, by the way. Both views.

I just find the situation interesting. And I also find it totally in line with my numerous UConn friends. It's almost like my friends never comprehend any of the financial stuff I talk to them about re: their athletic program. It's truly as if it goes in one ear and out the other. "Yeah, but THE BIG EAST!" That's the usual reaction I get from these people.

And frankly, that's the sort of reaction that UConn as an institution seems to have made here, in line with your views English, and totally in line with my perception of their fanbase.

- Chillin

[sagegrouse]

From Jeff Borzello of ESPN:


UConn and the American Athletic Conference have reached an agreement for the school's departure from the league ahead of its re-entry into the Big East Conference.

The Huskies will leave on July 1, 2020, and are required to pay an exit fee of $17 million by 2026.

.

[subzero02]

From Jeff Borzello of ESPN: UConn and the American Athletic Conference have reached an agreement for the school's departure from the league ahead of its re-entry into the Big East Conference.

The Huskies will leave on July 1, 2020, and are required to pay an exit fee of $17 million by 2026.

Danny better get UCONN back into the big dance asap. Their athletic program was over $40 million in the red last year.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.courant.com/sports/hc-sp-uconn-sports-athletic-department-finances-revenue-expenses-20190117-2wdp5gimnvhlliwykl6npcmy7u-story.html%3foutputType=amp

[HereBeforeCoachK]

Danny better get UCONN back into the big dance asap. Their athletic program was over $40 million in the red last year.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.courant.com/sports/hc-sp-uconn-sports-athletic-department-finances-revenue-expenses-20190117-2wdp5gimnvhlliwykl6npcmy7u-story.html%3foutputType=amp

...but....but....but ....I thought these athletic departments were all getting rich.........

[subzero02]

...but...but...but ...I thought these athletic departments were all getting rich....

Obviously this has never been the case so what's your point? Does it relate to the payment of collegiate athletes?

[Tazman10]

This was a good move for UConn but a poor move for the Big East. The schools in the Big East were classy but this took them a step back. UConn brings some trash with them, it is why the Big East did not bring them with. Hurley will have to make a big impact quickly. IMO, Villi leads and UConn will be no better than #2 and they will not sit long for that so progress will have to come fast. I think in a few years Hurley will see this as a bad coaching move. Great pay check but expectations will hurt him.

[HereBeforeCoachK]

Obviously this has never been the case so what's your point? Does it relate to the payment of collegiate athletes?

only to the discussion of the payment of collegiate athletes, where this misconception is exhibit A.

[MartyClark]

only to the discussion of the payment of collegiate athletes, where this misconception is exhibit A.

Yeah, I get HereBeforeCoachK's point. Many media talking heads assume that all colleges are netting huge money off athletics. Is it fair to say that this is not universally true?

I'm a skeptic on paying the kids. I worked hard to put three kids through college, they worked hard on part time jobs.

I've probably digressed from the main point here and, assuming I did, I apologize.

I am in favor of high school basketball players being allowed to go directly to the NBA. Same for football although the prospect for them are not as good.

This notion of paying college basketball players is complicated.

To further digress, Mary Willingham of UNC fame recently said (maybe testified) that colleges are failing athletes who aren't prepared for college. She cited examples of athletes who couldn't read coming into college.

I respectfully suggest that if a young man can't read, he does not belong in college.

Fire away, I 'm all in favor of giving young men a college education, but not every talented athlete belongs in college.

[CrazyNotCrazie]

This was a good move for UConn but a poor move for the Big East. The schools in the Big East were classy but this took them a step back. UConn brings some trash with them, it is why the Big East did not bring them with. Hurley will have to make a big impact quickly. IMO, Villi leads and UConn will be no better than #2 and they will not sit long for that so progress will have to come fast. I think in a few years Hurley will see this as a bad coaching move. Great pay check but expectations will hurt him.

The Big East did not choose to exclude UConn. UConn has invested heavily in football in recent years so they needed a place to house this program. The Big East does not have football so this was not an option. UConn really wanted to be in the ACC but they were frozen out so they had to settle.

[Tazman10]

The Big East did not choose to exclude UConn. UConn has invested heavily in football in recent years so they needed a place to house this program. The Big East does not have football so this was not an option. UConn really wanted to be in the ACC but they were frozen out so they had to settle.

The Big East was formed of schools that do not play football, all of them. It was formed from the 7 catholic schools from the original Big East. I think that means they left UConn on the outside not that UConn choose otherwise. Why now they thought otherwise is perplexing. But they can carry that baggag.

[Avvocato]

The Big East was formed of schools that do not play football, all of them. It was formed from the 7 catholic schools from the original Big East. I think that means they left UConn on the outside not that UConn choose otherwise. Why now they thought otherwise is perplexing. But they can carry that baggag.

It was part of the settlement, where only non-football playing schools were permitted to leave the “old” Big East (don’t forget, the AAC was trying to survive as a conference and actually held a lot of the cards). Similar to the “new” Big East’s ability to use the “Big East” name. The football playing schools had to stay in the old Big East (which changed its name to the AAC in the settlement talks). I think if the new Big East could have brought UConn along they would have but were happy to settle for what they got and start their basketball centric league, which was smart of those schools. The old Big East had turned into a mess.

[Tazman10]

It was part of the settlement, where only non-football playing schools were permitted to leave the “old” Big East (don’t forget, the AAC was trying to survive as a conference and actually held a lot of the cards).

So Cuse, Pitt and Ville were allowed to leave because??? They don’t play football? How does 10 private, Christian schools fit with UConn? They don’t. The plan was to create a private, Christian conference. UConn was left out, not that they minded, but it was the plan for them not to come with. And what cards did the AAC hold? The AAC has never had any respect, so how did that play out good for them? I think I’d fold those cards in a hurry.

[Bay Area Duke Fan]

So Cuse, Pitt and Ville were allowed to leave because??? They don’t play football? How does 10 private, Christian schools fit with UConn? They don’t. The plan was to create a private, Christian conference. UConn was left out, not that they minded, but it was the plan for them not to come with. And what cards did the AAC hold? The AAC has never had any respect, so how did that play out good for them? I think I’d fold those cards in a hurry.

Doesn’t that violate the First Amendment?

[sagegrouse]

So Cuse, Pitt and Ville were allowed to leave because??? They don’t play football? How does 10 private, Christian schools fit with UConn? They don’t. The plan was to create a private, Christian conference. UConn was left out, not that they minded, but it was the plan for them not to come with. And what cards did the AAC hold? The AAC has never had any respect, so how did that play out good for them? I think I’d fold those cards in a hurry.

I will try to give you rational answers to your rhetorical questions. Syracuse, Pitt and Louisville were ecstatic to leave the Big East for the ACC. As U of Miami president Donna Shalala said, the ACC is a true conference where proceeds are shared equally. The Big East payouts were highly variable and more like a potluck dinner. "Allowed to leave?" That is the kind of distortion we shouldn't have to read on this Board. "The plan was to create a private Christian conference." You might find one of the presidents or commissioners who said such a thing -- I am not sure anyone did. And one of its first moves was to add non-sectarian Butler?

"...fit with UConn." Uhhh, big-time athletics is about big-time dollars. UConn would be a valuable addition to basketball in the Big East. I don't think anyone worries about the fit.

Anyway, policing your misstatements is a waste of my time. And the thought occurs that you are stirring the pot on purpose, like a troll.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Doesn’t that violate the First Amendment?

A violation of the First Amendment would be if schools were sanctioned by the government. Or non-Catholics were being arrested.

[Indoor66]

Doesn’t that violate the First Amendment?

Why or how would that violate the First Amendment? It is not a Federal Govermental act.

[JasonEvans]

I remember quite clearly in 2012, when the "Catholic 7" decided to peel off from the rest of the conference and form the new Big East, that UConn could have joined them if it wanted to, but the Huskies were not interested because it would mean their basketball and football teams would be in different conferences (because the BEast did not have football). To be clear, UConn had been national champs in 2011, one year earlier, and had made the Final Four in 2009, two years before that. They were widely considered one of the elite teams in the sport and most would have expected them to remain there for a while (it has not worked out that way, but no one foresaw that in 2012).

The idea that the new Big East -- which was full of teams who competed annually with UConn and were geographically close to UConn like StJ, SH, and Prov -- would have rejected UConn joining them in 2012 is absurd.

-Jason "UConn won a natty in 2012 and 2014... tying them with Duke and Villanova for the most titles in this decade" Evans

[Tazman10]

When this all started, Tangases was the commissioner and he talked all about the football revenue and that the 7 basketball, catholic schools needed to go on their own. When it all started the talk was about the 7 catholic schools and Norte Dame coming together. UConn was not invited nor considered. UConn made it clearp they wanted to get into the ACC for football and basketball. The articles that I have read, written by the catholic 7, they were clear they wanted the “Catholic” issue to take presidence. UConn was the leader of the football side and was very adversarial of the Catholic 7.

[-jk]

When this all started, Tangases was the commissioner and he talked all about the football revenue and that the 7 basketball, catholic schools needed to go on their own. When it all started the talk was about the 7 catholic schools and Norte Dame coming together. UConn was not invited nor considered. UConn made it clearp they wanted to get into the ACC for football and basketball. The articles that I have read, written by the catholic 7, they were clear they wanted the “Catholic” issue to take presidence. UConn was the leader of the football side and was very adversarial of the Catholic 7.

Um, no.

They were so very insistent to be Catholic that Butler joined them for the new Big East's inauguration...

-jk

[subzero02]

I remember quite clearly in 2012, when the "Catholic 7" decided to peel off from the rest of the conference and form the new Big East, that UConn could have joined them if it wanted to, but the Huskies were not interested because it would mean their basketball and football teams would be in different conferences (because the BEast did not have football). To be clear, UConn had been national champs in 2011, one year earlier, and had made the Final Four in 2009, two years before that. They were widely considered one of the elite teams in the sport and most would have expected them to remain there for a while (it has not worked out that way, but no one foresaw that in 2012).

The idea that the new Big East -- which was full of teams who competed annually with UConn and were geographically close to UConn like StJ, SH, and Prov -- would have rejected UConn joining them in 2012 is absurd.

-Jason "UConn won a natty in 2012 and 2014... tying them with Duke and Villanova for the most titles in this decade" Evans

Kentucky won in 2012 with Anthony Davis... UCONN won in 2011 with Kemba Walker.

[subzero02]

only to the discussion of the payment of collegiate athletes, where this misconception is exhibit A.

Some programs clearly can and I believe should pay their players and some clearly cannot. The dividing line between the haves and have nots 90+% of the time is the presence of a strong football program in a power 5 conference. If a football program(Texas A&M) generates a profit of over $100 million a year and the head coach(Jimbo) is making $7.5 million a year and the offensive coordinator makes $1.8 million a year, I have a problem with the players not getting a portion of that profit.


9637

https://www.forbes.com/sites/chrissmith/2018/09/11/college-footballs-most-valuable-teams/#6a5b68be6c64

https://247sports.com/college/texas-am/Article/Texas-AM-football-Salaries-released-for-several-new-AM-coaches-120238830/

[Tazman10]

Um, no.

They were so very insistent to be Catholic that Butler joined them for the new Big East's inauguration...

-jk

Butler, Xavier and Creighton came after Notre Dame backed out. But that illustrates how they still wanted to maintain the Christian, private school conference, not Catholic but Christian.

[sagegrouse]

Butler, Xavier and Creighton came after Notre Dame backed out. But that illustrates how they still wanted to maintain the Christian, private school conference, not Catholic but Christian.

From Wikipedia


Butler University was founded by members of the Christian Church (Disciples of Christ), though it was never controlled by the church. The university charter called for "a non-sectarian institution free from the taint of slavery, offering instruction in every branch of liberal and professional education."

[Tazman10]

If you read anything about Butler, Creighton and Xavier you will find the reference to Jesuit. Jesuit is a Christian reference. These 3 came after Norte Dame pulled out and they were left with the 7 Catholic schools from the Big East. I would ask anyone to show me proof of any public college that is linked to Jesuit. UConn lead the charge to separate the football from the non-football schools.

[-jk]

If you read anything about Butler, Creighton and Xavier you will find the reference to Jesuit. Jesuit is a Christian reference. These 3 came after Norte Dame pulled out and they were left with the 7 Catholic schools from the Big East. I would ask anyone to show me proof of any public college that is linked to Jesuit. UConn lead the charge to separate the football from the non-football schools.

Butler is not a Jesuit school.

-jk

[duke2x]

From the funny typo department: http://fbschedules.com/uconn-huskies-begin-play-fbs-independent-2020/

That's a modest ACC ROI (ca. $1M/yr) for taking Miami, VT, and BC from the Big East and only playing them 1 time in basketball at a neutral site. I'll complain more quietly about the loss of the round robin in football and basketball now.

Whether UConn will be FBS by the time we play them in 2023/2024 will linger in my mind. UConn is already on par with our Franks/Roof teams with the best G5 TV contract now.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

If you read anything about Butler, Creighton and Xavier you will find the reference to Jesuit. Jesuit is a Christian reference. These 3 came after Norte Dame pulled out and they were left with the 7 Catholic schools from the Big East. I would ask anyone to show me proof of any public college that is linked to Jesuit. UConn lead the charge to separate the football from the non-football schools.

Might be time to swap hills.

[Tazman10]

Butler is not a Jesuit school.

-jk

Ok, i’m Done with this. If you go to Butler University and scroll down you see a topic called “Center for Faith and Vocation.” Without reading anything else that should tell you they are a faith college. If you are going to argue that they are not you need to point to any public college that has that topic, “Faith.” Just read...

[uh_no]

Ok, i’m Done with this. If you go to Butler University and scroll down you see a topic called “Center for Faith and Vocation.” Without reading anything else that should tell you they are a faith college. If you are going to argue that they are not you need to point to any public college that has that topic, “Faith.” Just read...

duke has a "center for jewish life", which is why we have a synagogue in the middle of west campus and are generally considered a jewish school.

[OldPhiKap]

Butler was founded as North Western Christian University in 1855. In 1930 it merged with the Teacher's College of Indianapolis, and then had several subsequent mergers including with the Indianapolis College of Pharmacy during WWII.

The charter calls for "a non-sectarian institution free from the taint of slavery, offering instruction in every branch of liberal and professional education."

It is a private university, not public.

So it is like Duke in a lot of ways, growing out of Trinity College (a Methodist school) and becoming a non-sectarian private school.

[sagegrouse]

Ok, i’m Done with this. If you go to Butler University and scroll down you see a topic called “Center for Faith and Vocation.” Without reading anything else that should tell you they are a faith college. If you are going to argue that they are not you need to point to any public college that has that topic, “Faith.” Just read...

Perhaps you would like to visit the web site of the Department of Religious Studies at UNC.
(https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwjD_oPusdrjAhWHB50JHePNA-EQFjAAegQIBhAC&url=https%3A%2F%2Freligion.unc.edu%2F&usg=AOvVaw38VrDsnA0VuvYt3uvIlJlP)
Really.

[Tazman10]

Perhaps you would like to visit the web site of the Department of Religious Studies at UNC.
(https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwjD_oPusdrjAhWHB50JHePNA-EQFjAAegQIBhAC&url=https%3A%2F%2Freligion.unc.edu%2F&usg=AOvVaw38VrDsnA0VuvYt3uvIlJlP)
Really.

LOL, is it a Center of Religious Studies? That changes things a lot... education is important!

[budwom]

Ok, i’m Done with this. If you go to Butler University and scroll down you see a topic called “Center for Faith and Vocation.” Without reading anything else that should tell you they are a faith college. If you are going to argue that they are not you need to point to any public college that has that topic, “Faith.” Just read...

As jk noted, Butler is not a Jesuit school; furthermore, "faith based" does not equal Jesuit; and finally, if you go to their Butler.edu home page, they have a nice summary about their mission, academics, student life, etc, and "faith based" is not mentioned. As others have mentioned, just because they have a "center" hardly makes them a faith based college.

[sagegrouse]

LOL, is it a Center of Religious Studies? That changes things a lot... education is important!

And this (https://heellife.unc.edu/organizations?categories=6113) one.

[Tazman10]

Lastly, when the 7 talked about leaving the conference all the reports where that the meetings were just of the 7. They also reported they were talking to Norte Dame about joining them. ESPN reported all this. When that fell through they changed things up and invited the private, Jesuit schools of Butler, Creighton and Xavier. At this time schools like W Virginia, Cuse, etc. had left and UConn was also looking for new pastures. They wanted in with the ACC but they said no.

Now I just read a story today, by one of the 7 but not on the net yet (I don’t think). It says that the vote was not unanimous for UConn to join them and that 3 schools already have committees looking into them leaving the Big East (St. John’s, Seton Hall and Marquette). The reason, UConn does not fit the philosophy of the basis which the conference was formed on. They talked with the likes of St. Joseph and St. Boniventure to join them but the buyouts of their conferences were too much for them.

[uh_no]

Butler was founded as North Western Christian University in 1855. In 1930 it merged with the Teacher's College of Indianapolis, and then had several subsequent mergers including with the Indianapolis College of Pharmacy during WWII.

The charter calls for "a non-sectarian institution free from the taint of slavery, offering instruction in every branch of liberal and professional education."

It is a private university, not public.

So it is like Duke in a lot of ways, growing out of Trinity College (a Methodist school) and becoming a non-sectarian private school.

Does the methodist church still "officially" have to approve the BoT?

[budwom]

Lastly, when the 7 talked about leaving the conference all the reports where that the meetings were just of the 7. They also reported they were talking to Norte Dame about joining them. ESPN reported all this. When that fell through they changed things up and invited the private, Jesuit schools of Butler, Creighton and Xavier. At this time schools like W Virginia, Cuse, etc. had left and UConn was also looking for new pastures. They wanted in with the ACC but they said no.

Now I just read a story today, by one of the 7 but not on the net yet (I don’t think). It says that the vote was not unanimous for UConn to join them and that 3 schools already have committees looking into them leaving the Big East (St. John’s, Seton Hall and Marquette). The reason, UConn does not fit the philosophy of the basis which the conference was formed on. They talked with the likes of St. Joseph and St. Boniventure to join them but the buyouts of their conferences were too much for them.

Why are you fixated on the "Jesuit School off Butler" when this is demonstrably untrue? They are not, nor ever have been Jesuit.

[sagegrouse]

Does the methodist church still "officially" have to approve the BoT?

Assuming you want a straight answer. The Eastern and Western Conferences of the Methodist Church in NC, according to former Duke Archivist William King, had authority to each approve the appointment of one-third of the trustees of Duke, provided that these names have been submitted by the seated BoT. Thus, Duke has always been a self-perpetuating university. In 2016 this formality was removed, and the United Methodist church no longer has formal approval of Duke trustees.

[OldPhiKap]

Assuming you want a straight answer. The Eastern and Western Conferences of the Methodist Church in NC, according to former Duke Archivist William King, had authority to each approve the appointment of one-third of the trustees of Duke, provided that these names have been submitted by the seated BoT. Thus, Duke has always been a self-perpetuating university. In 2016 this formality was removed, and the United Methodist church no longer has formal approval of Duke trustees.

Thanks, Sage

[uh_no]

Assuming you want a straight answer. The Eastern and Western Conferences of the Methodist Church in NC, according to former Duke Archivist William King, had authority to each approve the appointment of one-third of the trustees of Duke, provided that these names have been submitted by the seated BoT. Thus, Duke has always been a self-perpetuating university. In 2016 this formality was removed, and the United Methodist church no longer has formal approval of Duke trustees.

I was really curious about that one, and thanks for the response.

[budwom]

Assuming you want a straight answer. The Eastern and Western Conferences of the Methodist Church in NC, according to former Duke Archivist William King, had authority to each approve the appointment of one-third of the trustees of Duke, provided that these names have been submitted by the seated BoT. Thus, Duke has always been a self-perpetuating university. In 2016 this formality was removed, and the United Methodist church no longer has formal approval of Duke trustees.

It should also be mentioned that the Eastern Conference of the Methodist Church is vinegar based (stinging sermons) while the West Conference is tomato based, a bit less strident. I think I have that right...

[OldPhiKap]

It should also be mentioned that the Eastern Conference of the Methodist Church is vinegar based (stinging sermons) while the West Conference is tomato based, a bit less strident. I think I have that right...

budwom wins the internet for a day.

Use it wisely.

[Tazman10]

Why are you fixated on the "Jesuit School off Butler" when this is demonstrably untrue? They are not, nor ever have been Jesuit.

Butler University is the home of the Christian Theological Seminary. This is true with some other public colleges? I lived in Indiana for a while and they are known for their Christian work, and they hold out Christian values and beliefs, very loadly. But maybe someone who lives in NC knows better.

[OldPhiKap]

Butler University is the home of the Christian Theological Seminary. This is true with some other public colleges? I lived in Indiana for a while and they are known for their Christian work, and they hold out Christian values and beliefs, very loadly. But maybe someone who lives in NC knows better.

Butler is not a public college. In fact, if it was, by definition it could not be a religious school because of the First Amendment’s separation of church and state requirement.

Butler’s current charter calls for it to be non-sectarian.

Why do you keep denying these pretty basic and verifiable facts?

[subzero02]

Ok, i’m Done with this. If you go to Butler University and scroll down you see a topic called “Center for Faith and Vocation.” Without reading anything else that should tell you they are a faith college. If you are going to argue that they are not you need to point to any public college that has that topic, “Faith.” Just read...


LOL, is it a Center of Religious Studies? That changes things a lot... education is important!


Lastly, when the 7 talked about leaving the conference all the reports where that the meetings were just of the 7. They also reported they were talking to Norte Dame about joining them. ESPN reported all this. When that fell through they changed things up and invited the private, Jesuit schools of Butler, Creighton and Xavier. At this time schools like W Virginia, Cuse, etc. had left and UConn was also looking for new pastures. They wanted in with the ACC but they said no.

Now I just read a story today, by one of the 7 but not on the net yet (I don’t think).* It says that the vote was not unanimous for UConn to join them and that 3 schools already have committees looking into them leaving the Big East (St. John’s, Seton Hall and Marquette). The reason, UConn does not fit the philosophy of the basis which the conference was formed on. They talked with the likes of St. Joseph and St. Boniventure to join them but the buyouts of their conferences were too much for them.


Butler University is the home of the Christian Theological Seminary. This is true with some other public colleges? I lived in Indiana for a while and they are known for their Christian work, and they hold out Christian values and beliefs, very loadly. But maybe someone who lives in NC knows better.

You have an interesting way of being done with things.

* Where did you read this story?

[sagegrouse]

Butler University is the home of the Christian Theological Seminary. This is true with some other public colleges? I lived in Indiana for a while and they are known for their Christian work, and they hold out Christian values and beliefs, very loadly. But maybe someone who lives in NC knows better.

Actually the Seminary became a separate entity in 1924. See Wiki page.