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brevity
06-21-2019, 05:27 PM
I will rely on awhom111 and others to scour the Internet for roster announcements, but here is some introductory information for Summer League play in Sacramento, Salt Lake City, and Las Vegas.


JULY 1-3 in Sacramento: California Classic (https://www.nba.com/kings/caclassic?r=Main_19CAC_Pencil_OG)

Teams: Kings, Warriors, Lakers, Heat (I guess the Clippers were busy)

Round robin play over 3 days. Doubleheaders each day. Click the above link for schedule. TV broadcast info not known.


JULY 1-3 in Salt Lake City: SLC Summer League (https://www.nba.com/jazz/summerleague/2019)

Teams: Jazz, Grizzlies, Spurs, Cavaliers (Bolden?)

Round robin play over 3 days. Doubleheaders each day. Click the above link for schedule. TV broadcast to be decided.


JULY 5-15 in Las Vegas: MGM Resorts Summer League (https://www.nba.com/summerleague/#/) (main NBA Summer League page)

Teams: All 30, plus China and Croatia

Full schedule and TV info below the article here (https://www.nba.com/article/2019/06/21/2019-nba-summer-league-schedule-official-release). Every Las Vegas game is televised on an ESPN channel or NBATV.

The article mentions the headliner: Zion and the Pelicans open on Friday night against RJ and the Knicks. (High draft picks are used sparingly in Summer League, but barring any injury concerns, they should both play this first game.)

BD80
06-21-2019, 05:56 PM
I will rely on awhom111 and others to scour the Internet for roster announcements, but here is some introductory information for Summer League play in Sacramento, Salt Lake City, and Las Vegas...

JULY 5-15 in Las Vegas: MGM Resorts Summer League (https://www.nba.com/summerleague/#/) (main NBA Summer League page)



The article mentions the headliner: Zion and the Pelicans open on Friday night against RJ and the Knicks. (High draft picks are used sparingly in Summer League, but barring any injury concerns, they should both play this first game.)


It took 2 Dukies to make this match-up "must see TV"


This will have better ratings than any REGULAR SEASON Knicks - Pelicans match-up in history!

BigZ
06-21-2019, 07:25 PM
Marquis signed w Cavs

brevity
06-25-2019, 01:06 AM
Some updates.

Who needs a GM anyway? The Wizards are the first to announce a Summer League roster. (https://www.nbcsports.com/washington/wizards/check-out-names-wizards-summer-league-training-camp-roster) It includes draft picks Rui Hachimura and Admiral Schofield, plus 16 people I barely remember or never knew (undrafted rookies, G-Leaguers, former collegians playing abroad).

Good news for the Sacramento Summer League: Marvin Bagley and Harry Giles are in. (https://www.sacbee.com/sports/nba/sacramento-kings/article231847248.html) They will join draft pick Kyle Guy in the California Classic.

Bad news for the SLC Summer League: Ja Morant is out. (https://amp.si.com/nba/2019/06/20/ja-morant-summer-league-grizzlies-will-not-play) The Grizzlies' #2 pick had minor knee surgery and will be out of action for a few weeks.

Speaking of the Grizzlies, they got #21 pick Brandon Clarke by draft day trade, and Grayson Allen in the Mike Conley trade, but neither can join the team until the trades are completed on July 6 (which is Day 2 of the Las Vegas Summer League). This article (https://www.commercialappeal.com/story/sports/nba/grizzlies/2019/06/24/memphis-grizzlies-summer-league-roster-schedule-taking-shape/1542821001/) from the Memphis paper speculates that Clarke's addition to the Summer League roster is "probable" and Allen's is "questionable".

JasonEvans
06-25-2019, 08:07 AM
Good news for the Sacramento Summer League: Marvin Bagley and Harry Giles are in. (https://www.sacbee.com/sports/nba/sacramento-kings/article231847248.html) They will join draft pick Kyle Guy in the California Classic.

I'll be shocked if Bagley plays in more than 1 or 2 summer league games. Guys who plyed 25+ minutes per game and scored almost 15 ppg in the NBA have nothing to gain by playing in Summer League.

devildeac
06-25-2019, 08:40 AM
Has anyone fouled out yet this summer? :rolleyes:

weezie
06-25-2019, 08:57 AM
...Every Las Vegas game is televised on an ESPN channel or NBATV.

The article mentions the headliner: Zion and the Pelicans open on Friday night against RJ and the Knicks...

That might make a nice change from espn's 24/7 replay of every Duke game from this past season. I love my Duke but good grief, can the rest of the country's fan population get any more riled up against us?

I mean, I can take the haters all on single-handedly but let's just see what else is on.

BD80
06-25-2019, 10:17 AM
That might make a nice change from espn's 24/7 replay of every Duke game from this past season. I love my Duke but good grief, can the rest of the country's fan population get any more riled up against us?

I mean, I can take the haters all on single-handedly but let's just see what else is on.

Something else on?!? As if …

Wait. Really? There are other teams on TV?

Why?

rsvman
06-25-2019, 11:10 AM
That might make a nice change from espn's 24/7 replay of every Duke game from this past season. I love my Duke but good grief, can the rest of the country's fan population get any more riled up against us?

I mean, I can take the haters all on single-handedly but let's just see what else is on.

I hear you, but I really enjoyed watching the last seven minutes of the Duke-Virginia Cameron game last night, in which, in case you don't remember, we beat the previously undefeated Cavaliers despite not having Tre Jones in the line up.

MartyClark
06-25-2019, 11:53 AM
I hear you, but I really enjoyed watching the last seven minutes of the Duke-Virginia Cameron game last night, in which, in case you don't remember, we beat the previously undefeated Cavaliers despite not having Tre Jones in the line up.

Just watched the replay of Duke beating Carolina in the ACC semifinals. Watching Duke v FSU now.

Gosh, I miss Zion and RJ.

weezie
06-25-2019, 12:01 PM
...in case you don't remember...

In case I don't remember? :cool:

brevity
06-25-2019, 05:25 PM
Now the Orlando Magic have a Summer League roster (https://www.nba.com/magic/magic-announce-summer-league-roster-20190625). Mo Bamba and Amile Jefferson headline. (Draft pick Chuma Okeke is still injured, and Markelle Fultz is still not ready.)

USA Today has an interesting Summer League roster tracker (https://therookiewire.usatoday.com/2019/06/23/2019-nba-las-vegas-summer-league-roster-schedule-teams-zion-williamson/) that collects and updates what we know so far about who is playing for what team. It isn't perfect -- it has the full Magic roster and not the Wizards -- but, in the absence of complete information, it's not bad.

bundabergdevil
06-25-2019, 05:37 PM
Now the Orlando Magic have a Summer League roster (https://www.nba.com/magic/magic-announce-summer-league-roster-20190625). Mo Bamba and Amile Jefferson headline. (Draft pick Chuma Okeke is still injured, and Markelle Fultz is still not ready.)

USA Today has an interesting Summer League roster tracker (https://therookiewire.usatoday.com/2019/06/23/2019-nba-las-vegas-summer-league-roster-schedule-teams-zion-williamson/) that collects and updates what we know so far about who is playing for what team. It isn't perfect -- it has the full Magic roster and not the Wizards -- but, in the absence of complete information, it's not bad.

The Markelle Fultz update (https://deadspin.com/markelle-fultz-shooting-form-update-indefinite-hiatus-1835842116) sounds exactly like all the updates from the 76ers when he was with them. His continues to be one of the strangest sagas I've witnessed because I still don't feel like we fully understand what the heck is happening. But he's in shape, so there's that...

subzero02
06-25-2019, 06:51 PM
The Markelle Fultz update (https://deadspin.com/markelle-fultz-shooting-form-update-indefinite-hiatus-1835842116) sounds exactly like all the updates from the 76ers when he was with them. His continues to be one of the strangest sagas I've witnessed because I still don't feel like we fully understand what the heck is happening. But he's in shape, so there's that...

Hopefully in the not too distant future, we will be given the Fultz story.

devildeac
06-25-2019, 07:07 PM
Hopefully in the not too distant future, we will be given the Fultz story.

Almost got it right. You would have nailed it completely with, "...we will be given the Fultz story, Markelle my words."

:o

NSDukeFan
06-25-2019, 07:39 PM
Now the Orlando Magic have a Summer League roster (https://www.nba.com/magic/magic-announce-summer-league-roster-20190625). Mo Bamba and Amile Jefferson headline. (Draft pick Chuma Okeke is still injured, and Markelle Fultz is still not ready.)

USA Today has an interesting Summer League roster tracker (https://therookiewire.usatoday.com/2019/06/23/2019-nba-las-vegas-summer-league-roster-schedule-teams-zion-williamson/) that collects and updates what we know so far about who is playing for what team. It isn't perfect -- it has the full Magic roster and not the Wizards -- but, in the absence of complete information, it's not bad.

When Fultz first got hurt, did he become Bruno Caboclo: 2 years away from being 2 years away?

BD80
06-25-2019, 07:57 PM
Hopefully in the not too distant future, we will be given the Fultz story.


Almost got it right. You would have nailed it completely with, "...we will be given the Fultz story, Markelle my words."

:o

He was being subtle, …

he didn't want to leave a Markelle.

awhom111
06-25-2019, 08:47 PM
Here is Croatia's roster with Antonio and his teammates:
https://www.hks-cbf.hr/vijesti/2019/foto-u-zagrebu-se-okupila-seniorska-reprezentacija

I don't believe that China has announced its final roster yet. They have been playing games against a selection of Australian players from their national league.

Green Wave Dukie
06-25-2019, 10:37 PM
Almost got it right. You would have nailed it completely with, "...we will be given the Fultz story, Markelle my words."

:o

DD - I think Subzero02 just didn’t want to shoulder all the responsibility.

subzero02
06-26-2019, 11:35 AM
DD - I think Subzero02 just didn’t want to shoulder all the responsibility.

Exactly, individual off the cuff puns aren't as remarkelleable as group efforts...

jv001
06-26-2019, 11:49 AM
Has anyone fouled out yet this summer? :rolleyes:

I thought Javin returned to Duke. :cool: GoDuke!

devildeac
06-26-2019, 01:13 PM
Exactly, individual off the cuff puns aren't as remarkelleable as group efforts...

Dare I continue this punfest? Shoot (,) I can't.

Green Wave Dukie
06-26-2019, 04:58 PM
Dare I continue this punfest? Shoot (,) I can't.

Come on. Keep it coming. Don’t hesitate.

brevity
06-26-2019, 05:19 PM
Next up: the Miami Heat announced a Summer League roster (https://www.nba.com/heat/news/heat-announce-summer-league-information-190626) in the early afternoon. Draft pick Tyler Herro and nepotism pick Trey Mourning make the list. KZ Okpala will probably join once his trade is final.

Not sure why only Southeast Division teams -- Washington, Orlando, Miami -- had announced so far. (I know, Croatia has too, but they're in Southeast Europe (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southeast_Europe).)

Anyway, the Golden State Warriors crashed geographical trends (https://www.nba.com/warriors/news/summer-league-2019) and provided us with their roster a couple of hours later. Draft picks Jordan Poole, Alen Smailagić, and Eric Paschall will play. Also included are Ky Bowman and blasts-from-the-past Jimmer Fredette and Travis Wear.


Speaking of the Grizzlies, they got #21 pick Brandon Clarke by draft day trade, and Grayson Allen in the Mike Conley trade, but neither can join the team until the trades are completed on July 6 (which is Day 2 of the Las Vegas Summer League). This article (https://www.commercialappeal.com/story/sports/nba/grizzlies/2019/06/24/memphis-grizzlies-summer-league-roster-schedule-taking-shape/1542821001/) from the Memphis paper speculates that Clarke's addition to the Summer League roster is "probable" and Allen's is "questionable".

And now the Memphis paper speculates that Grayson Allen will play Summer League (https://www.commercialappeal.com/story/sports/nba/grizzlies/2019/06/25/memphis-grizzlies-summer-league-roster-grayson-allen-could-prove/1542849001/) for Memphis once the trade is complete.

brevity
06-27-2019, 06:27 PM
Another day, another set of rosters. Today we have 3 of the 4 teams playing in SLC Summer League.

The San Antonio Spurs roster (https://www.nba.com/spurs/spurs-announce-2019-salt-lake-city-summer-league-roster) (announced yesterday evening with no fanfare, which is a very Spurs thing to do) will include draft picks Luka Samanic, Keldon Johnson, and Quinndary Weatherspoon, along with former lottery pick Thomas Robinson (http://www2.kusports.com/weblogs/tale-tait/2019/jun/26/former-ku-all-american-thomas-robinson-e/) and opposite-of-lottery-pick Kenny Williams.

The Cleveland Cavaliers roster (https://www.nba.com/cavaliers/releases/summer-league-roster-2019) came earlier today, and the big surprises are that Darius Garland intends to play, and John Beilein will be coaching for at least the three days in Salt Lake City. Also listed are draft picks Dylan Windler and Kevin Porter Jr, as well as the undrafted Marques Bolden, Phil Booth, and Dean Wade.

Finally, the hometown Utah Jazz announced their roster (https://www.nba.com/jazz/jazz-announce-mini-camp-roster-2019-summer-league) about an hour ago, and aside from second-year player Tony Bradley and UMBC world-beater turned G-Leaguer Jairus Lyles, I don't know these names. Not even the 3 draft picks. Good thing this event is generally well-attended.

The Jazz also announced TV information (https://www.nba.com/jazz/salt-lake-city-summer-league-announces-broadcast-plans-and-pre-game-activitieshttps://www.nba.com/jazz/salt-lake-city-summer-league-announces-broadcast-plans-and-pre-game-activities) for the SLC Summer League games. The Grizzlies-Jazz game on opening night (July 1) will be on ESPN2. The event's other five games will be on NBATV.

Keep in mind that some of these rosters for the Sacramento and Salt Lake City events could change before the Las Vegas league starts.

subzero02
06-28-2019, 12:16 PM
The NBA will implement a coach's challenge during summer league play this year. It is expected to be utilized during the 2019-2020 regular season as well.



Coaches will get only one challenge per game, whether it is successful or unsuccessful, according to the memo. They can use it to challenge only called fouls, goaltending, basket interference and plays when the ball is knocked out of bounds, the memo says. The NBA has tested this version of the challenge system in the G League over the past two seasons... the coach must "twirl his/her index finger toward the referees" to signal for the challenge, the memo states*

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/27074153/nba-allow-coach-challenges-summer


*I anticipate many finger twirl oriented memes in the not too distant future.

UrinalCake
06-28-2019, 12:47 PM
Good thing they specified "index" finger. Otherwise I could see coaches taking liberties with their choice of finger.

Turk
06-28-2019, 03:52 PM
Almost got it right. You would have nailed it completely with, "...we will be given the Fultz story, Markelle my words."

:o

"THAT'S NOT FUNNY! TOO SOON!" - Regards, Bryan "Sonny Corleone" Colangelo

brevity
06-28-2019, 05:15 PM
The remaining three teams who see action on Monday (Kings and Lakers in Sacramento, Grizzlies in Salt Lake City) have finally announced their rosters. So have the Pacers and world champion Raptors.

The Los Angeles Lakers quietly released their Summer League roster (https://www.nba.com/lakers/lakers-announce-2019-summer-leagues-roster) yesterday evening, and if you squint a little, it might be their upcoming regular season roster too. Third-year player Joe Young is the only non-NBA rookie in this lucky group of thirteen. Draft pick Talen Horton-Tucker is listed here but is reportedly out for the California Classic (https://twitter.com/taniaganguli/status/1144697047649402880). So undrafted free agents Jordan Caroline and Zach Norvell Jr. join former collegians Conner Frankamp and Codi Miller-McIntyre. Coby Karl and Miles Simon will split head coaching duties. Showtime!

The hometown Sacramento Kings have 50 percent less Duke on their mini-camp and Summer League roster (https://www.nba.com/kings/news/kings-announce-2019-ca-classic-roster-mini-camp-schedule): Marvin Bagley is there and Harry Giles is not. Fans on Twitter find this concerning. Is he still injured? Trade bait? Rumors abound. Joining Bagley are draft pick Kyle Guy and some familiar names: Frank Mason III, Caleb Swanigan, Semaj Christon, Wenyen Gabriel. Mini-camp started today.

The Kings link above also mentions that all six games of the California Classic will be televised: ESPN2 will show Lakers-Warriors on Tuesday -- either because no one at ESPN bothered to check the rosters, or because they think nostalgic viewers will embrace the Warriors' Jimmer Fredette the way they mindlessly flock to revived TV shows. Anyway, the rest of the games are on NBATV.

The Memphis Grizzlies roster for Summer League (https://www.nba.com/grizzlies/news/memphis-grizzlies-announce-2019-salt-lake-city-summer-league-roster-190628)has a Murray State guard on it, but it's Shaq Buchanan, Ja Morant's backcourt mate. To recap, no Morant (knee surgery), Brandon Clarke (draft day trade not final), or Grayson Allen (Mike Conley trade not final). The roster should look more enticing after July 6.

The Indiana Pacers have built a roster (https://www.nba.com/pacers/news/pacers-announce-2019-rookie/free-agent-camp-roster) to showcase draft pick Goga Bitadze with one goal in mind: an endorsement from Go-Gurt (https://www.gogurt.com/). "He's the Shizz," said Aaron Holiday. "No, I am," replied Shizz Alston.

Finally, the Toronto Raptors break new "Who?" barriers with their roster (https://www.nba.com/raptors/raptors-announce-nba-summer-league-2019-roster). I recognize Chris Boucher as the injured guy Oregon didn't have when they made the 2017 Final Four. He is a two-year NBA player who somehow has two championship rings (one with the Warriors, one with the Raptors). The Raptors are willing to send their good luck charm south of the border along with not much else; their video coordinator will be coaching the team.

ETA: The Denver Nuggets snuck in a roster (https://www.nba.com/nuggets/news/denver-nuggets-announce-2019-nba-summer-league-roster) while I wrote this. It includes injured 2018 draft pick Michael Porter Jr. but not injured 2019 draft pick Bol Bol.

JetpackJesus
06-28-2019, 06:53 PM
The remaining three teams who see action on Monday (Kings and Lakers in Sacramento, Grizzlies in Salt Lake City) have finally announced their rosters. So have the Pacers and world champion Raptors.

The Los Angeles Lakers quietly released their Summer League roster (https://www.nba.com/lakers/lakers-announce-2019-summer-leagues-roster) yesterday evening, and if you squint a little, it might be their upcoming regular season roster too. Third-year player Joe Young is the only non-NBA rookie in this lucky group of thirteen. Draft pick Talen Horton-Tucker is listed here but is reportedly out for the California Classic (https://twitter.com/taniaganguli/status/1144697047649402880). So undrafted free agents Jordan Caroline and Zach Norvell Jr. join former collegians Conner Frankamp and Codi Miller-McIntyre. Coby Karl and Miles Simon will split head coaching duties. Showtime!

The hometown Sacramento Kings have 50 percent less Duke on their mini-camp and Summer League roster (https://www.nba.com/kings/news/kings-announce-2019-ca-classic-roster-mini-camp-schedule): Marvin Bagley is there and Harry Giles is not. Fans on Twitter find this concerning. Is he still injured? Trade bait? Rumors abound. Joining Bagley are draft pick Kyle Guy and some familiar names: Frank Mason III, Caleb Swanigan, Semaj Christon, Wenyen Gabriel. Mini-camp started today.

The Kings link above also mentions that all six games of the California Classic will be televised: ESPN2 will show Lakers-Warriors on Tuesday -- either because no one at ESPN bothered to check the rosters, or because they think nostalgic viewers will embrace the Warriors' Jimmer Fredette the way they mindlessly flock to revived TV shows. Anyway, the rest of the games are on NBATV.

The Memphis Grizzlies roster for Summer League (https://www.nba.com/grizzlies/news/memphis-grizzlies-announce-2019-salt-lake-city-summer-league-roster-190628)has a Murray State guard on it, but it's Shaq Buchanan, Ja Morant's backcourt mate. To recap, no Morant (knee surgery), Brandon Clarke (draft day trade not final), or Grayson Allen (Mike Conley trade not final). The roster should look more enticing after July 6.

The Indiana Pacers have built a roster (https://www.nba.com/pacers/news/pacers-announce-2019-rookie/free-agent-camp-roster) to showcase draft pick Goga Bitadze with one goal in mind: an endorsement from Go-Gurt (https://www.gogurt.com/). "He's the Shizz," said Aaron Holiday. "No, I am," replied Shizz Alston.

Finally, the Toronto Raptors break new "Who?" barriers with their roster (https://www.nba.com/raptors/raptors-announce-nba-summer-league-2019-roster). I recognize Chris Boucher as the injured guy Oregon didn't have when they made the 2017 Final Four. He is a two-year NBA player who somehow has two championship rings (one with the Warriors, one with the Raptors). The Raptors are willing to send their good luck charm south of the border along with not much else; their video coordinator will be coaching the team.

ETA: The Denver Nuggets snuck in a roster (https://www.nba.com/nuggets/news/denver-nuggets-announce-2019-nba-summer-league-roster) while I wrote this. It includes injured 2018 draft pick Michael Porter Jr. but not injured 2019 draft pick Bol Bol.
Still can't spork. Hilarity ensued anyway.

devildeac
06-29-2019, 09:40 AM
Still can't spork. Hilarity ensued anyway.

Gotcha covered. I'm amazed however at the number of folks I'm "unable" to spork anymore. Must be my age...

BD80
06-29-2019, 10:17 AM
Gotcha covered. I'm amazed however at the number of folks I'm "unable" to spork anymore. Must be my age...

Ah the good ol' days. We could spork anyone, anywhere, anytime, and as many times as we wanted.

No one has ever been as promiscuous as I remember being …

CDu
06-29-2019, 10:28 AM
Ah the good ol' days. We could spork anyone, anywhere, anytime, and as many times as we wanted.

No one has ever been as promiscuous as I remember being …

I find that as I get older, I don’t spork as often as I used to as well...

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
06-29-2019, 10:30 AM
Ah the good ol' days. We could spork anyone, anywhere, anytime, and as many times as we wanted.

No one has ever been as promiscuous as I remember being …

That's how social disease is spread.

jimsumner
06-29-2019, 10:50 AM
Ah the good ol' days. We could spork anyone, anywhere, anytime, and as many times as we wanted.

No one has ever been as promiscuous as I remember being …

When I was a kid we had to spork going uphill. In the snow.

Indoor66
06-29-2019, 11:44 AM
When I was a kid we had to spork going uphill. In the snow.

But it was uphill both directions, wasn't it?

BD80
06-29-2019, 12:12 PM
Ah the good ol' days. We could spork anyone, anywhere, anytime, and as many times as we wanted.

No one has ever been as promiscuous as I remember being …

I dost protest …

I chose "prolific" - "producing many works"

It was edited - without my consent - to "promiscuous" - "demonstrating or implying an undiscriminating or unselective approach; indiscriminate or casual."


I maintain that my sporking was NEVER unselective, indiscriminate or casual!

Indoor66
06-29-2019, 12:30 PM
I dost protest …

I chose "prolific" - "producing many works"

It was edited - without my consent - to "promiscuous" - "demonstrating or implying an undiscriminating or unselective approach; indiscriminate or casual."


I maintain that my sporking was NEVER unselective, indiscriminate or casual!

Methinks he doth protest too much. 😎

awhom111
06-29-2019, 03:30 PM
It's Saturday, so brevity can't timezone me by posting when I am at work.

The Hornets decided that today was a good to release their roster, probably because there are no luxury tax implications:
https://www.nba.com/hornets/press-releases/hornets-announce-roster-mgm-resorts-nba-summer-league-2019

As we all know, they have a quota for players from a certain team. It may actually be two spots and Kennedy Meeks counts as filling both of them.

devildeac
06-29-2019, 04:59 PM
It's Saturday, so brevity can't timezone me by posting when I am at work.

The Hornets decided that today was a good to release their roster, probably because there are no luxury tax implications:
https://www.nba.com/hornets/press-releases/hornets-announce-roster-mgm-resorts-nba-summer-league-2019

As we all know, they have a quota for players from a certain team. It may actually be two spots and Kennedy Meeks counts as filling both of them.

If they signed Sean May that would almost assuredly "round out" their roster.

BD80
06-29-2019, 05:45 PM
If they signed Sean May that would almost assuredly "round out" their roster.

They'd have to sit on opposite sides of the team bus.

If they both sat in the back of the bus, the front wheels wouldn't touch the ground.

subzero02
06-29-2019, 06:32 PM
Hicks is on the roster and a unc affiliated athletic trainer is on the staff. I guess the restraining order that Meeks has against the hole training staff isn't valid in Vegas.

brevity
06-29-2019, 07:57 PM
The Hornets decided that today was a good to release their roster, probably because there are no luxury tax implications:
https://www.nba.com/hornets/press-releases/hornets-announce-roster-mgm-resorts-nba-summer-league-2019

As we all know, they have a quota for players from a certain team. It may actually be two spots and Kennedy Meeks counts as filling both of them.


Hicks is on the roster and a unc affiliated athletic trainer is on the staff. I guess the restraining order that Meeks has against the hole training staff isn't valid in Vegas.

Don't forget former Texas player Kerwin Roach, who has probably been on Chapel Hill West's radar since this dunk (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vejSASd43uY) against Duke from the 2017-2018 season.

On the other hand, they do have Torin Dorn (former NC State) and Cody Martin (former former NC State), so maybe it's more of an anti-Duke policy than a pro-Carolina policy.

Anyway, the Dallas Mavericks also have a roster (https://www.mavs.com/mavericks-announce-roster-and-schedule-for-mgm-resorts-nba-summer-league-2019/) that they dropped Friday night, which even Mark Cuban refers to as "Shark Tank Time" rather than "Mavericks Time". Draft pick Isaiah Roby is joined by G-Leaguer Kostas Antetokounmpo and blast-from-the-past assistant coach God Shammgod.

Some updates:


The hometown Sacramento Kings have 50 percent less Duke on their mini-camp and Summer League roster (https://www.nba.com/kings/news/kings-announce-2019-ca-classic-roster-mini-camp-schedule): Marvin Bagley is there and Harry Giles is not. Fans on Twitter find this concerning. Is he still injured? Trade bait? Rumors abound.

Sacramento Bee (https://www.sacbee.com/sports/nba/sacramento-kings/article232082237.html): "Harry’s here, he’s healthy, he’s learning, he’s around, he’s going to be a part of it," [assistant coach Jesse] Mermuys said. "We just, as an organization, decided we’re going to take a look at other guys." Doesn't really eliminate the possibility of a trade -- Clint Capela of Houston is said to be a target -- but okay.


The Cleveland Cavaliers roster (https://www.nba.com/cavaliers/releases/summer-league-roster-2019) came earlier today, and the big surprises are that Darius Garland intends to play, and John Beilein will be coaching for at least the three days in Salt Lake City.

Correction: Darius Garland will not play, making the SLC Summer League even less of an event than it already was. From this article (https://www.cleveland.com/cavs/2019/06/cleveland-cavaliers-summer-league-roster-features-darius-garland-dylan-windler-kevin-porter-jr-garland-not-expected-to-play.html) in Cleveland.com: "The team put Garland on the roster so he can participate in team-related activities and stay connected to some of his new teammates in Salt Lake City. Even though he is healthy, the Cavs don’t want to push Garland, who only played four full games during his freshman season at Vanderbilt before suffering a torn meniscus."

devildeac
06-29-2019, 10:15 PM
They'd have to sit on opposite sides of the team bus.

If they both sat in the back of the bus, the front wheels wouldn't touch the ground.

Is this what you had in mind?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZSzOd__feIw

BD80
06-30-2019, 08:38 AM
Is this what you had in mind?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZSzOd__feIw

Notice that ol' roy had a little trouble get the bus started. He threw those first couple of players too close together. Once he got over them, it was clear sailing!

mgtr
06-30-2019, 10:54 AM
Is this what you had in mind?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZSzOd__feIw

Excellent! And props to the driver -- not an easy task to keep it straight.

awhom111
06-30-2019, 03:48 PM
Back to basketball for a second, here is Monday's schedule (times ET):
Spurs vs Cavaliers (Marques), 7pm NBATV
Heat vs Lakers, 9pm NBATV
Grizzlies vs Jazz, 9pm ESPN2
Warriors vs Kings (Marvin), 11pm NBATV

brevity
06-30-2019, 04:17 PM
Back to basketball for a second, here is Monday's schedule (times ET):
Spurs vs Cavaliers (Marques), 7pm NBATV
Heat vs Lakers, 9pm NBATV
Grizzlies vs Jazz, 9pm ESPN2
Warriors vs Kings (Marvin), 11pm NBATV

Be sure to watch Marvin if you can, because he will only play the California Classic (and maybe not all 3 games of it). The Kings posted a separate roster for the Las Vegas games (https://www.nba.com/kings/news/kings-announce-mgm-resorts-nba-summer-league-roster-and-schedule), and he is not on it.

brevity
07-01-2019, 04:13 PM
Summer League action starts in Sacramento and Salt Lake City tonight (see two posts above). But here are some rosters for the Las Vegas games, which start Friday.

New Orleans Pelicans (https://www.nba.com/pelicans/pelicans-announce-mgm-resorts-nba-summer-league-2019-roster-and-mini-camp-schedule): The roster includes former Duke players Zion Williamson and Frank Jackson, as well as Duke-adjacent UCF grad Aubrey Dawkins, and familiar names like London Perrantes (formerly of UVA) and Trevon Bluiett (formerly of Xavier). Mini-camp is at UNLV July 2-4, and since it's unavailable to the media, I assume it's private. (The opener Friday night against RJ Barrett and the Knicks is very much public.)

Minnesota Timberwolves (https://www.nba.com/timberwolves/news/timberwolves-announce-mgm-resorts-nba-summer-league-2019-las-vegas-roster): Any announcement after Zion is going to be a letdown, but here goes. Draft pick Jaylen Nowell and the undrafted Tyus Battle and Naz Reid join a mishmash of players that include Josh Okogie and league royalty Canyon Barry. (ETA: I forgot about Jarrett Culver, who presumably joins the team once his draft day trade is complete.)

Houston Rockets (https://www.nba.com/rockets/news/2019-las-vegas-summer-league-roster-announced-1): The headliner for our purposes is Trevon Duval. The Rockets had no draft picks, so he is joined by the undrafted Shamorie Ponds and familiar second-year pros Deng Adel, Rawle Alkins, and Chris Chiozza.

Boston Celtics (https://www.nba.com/celtics/news/pressrelease/celtics-2019-summer-league-roster-broadcast-schedule): No Duke players, so we'll start with Tacko Fall. All four draft picks (Romeo Langford, Grant Williams, Carsen Edwards, Tremont Waters) will play, plus Robert Williams, a DBR hero for helping eliminate UNC from the 2018 NCAA Tournament.

Los Angeles Clippers (https://www.nba.com/clippers/la-clippers-announce-2019-mgm-resorts-nba-summer-league-schedule-and-roster): FSU West will have draft picks Mfiondu Kabengele and Terance Mann, plus the undrafted Oshae Brissett (Syracuse). Yawn.

Oklahoma City Thunder (https://www.nba.com/thunder/news/summer-roster-190701): Darius Bazley won't join until his draft day trade is official. There are a couple of former ACC players -- Donte Grantham of Clemson and Devon Hall of UVA. The big confusing name here is Summer League coach Dave Bliss, who after a little research is NOT the same Dave Bliss who got in a lot of trouble at Baylor. One wonders why a young guy who works for a pro basketball franchise would call himself Dave Bliss without at least a middle initial, but then I think of Michael Bolton. Not that one, the other one.

9575

brevity
07-01-2019, 08:13 PM
I'm hoping awhom111 does the nightly game recaps, but Marques Bolden's debut is complete (as a starter) and here is his box score (https://www.espn.com/nba-summer-league/boxscore?gameId=401140777&league=nba-summer-utah) line:

Minutes: 22
FG: 5-5 (0-0 3PT)
Points: 10
Rebounds: 8 (4 O, 4 D)
Assists: 3
Steals: 3
Blocks: 2
Turnovers: 1
Fouls: 2
+/-: +6

Someone is quick to post to YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_wFhco-cJv8). There's a good offense/defense/offense sequence at 1:00-1:30.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_wFhco-cJv8

The NBA has tweeted a shorter video (https://twitter.com/NBA/status/1145841350157438977) of his 2 blocks.

subzero02
07-01-2019, 08:28 PM
I'm hoping awhom111 does the nightly game recaps, but Marques Bolden's debut is complete (as a starter) and here is his box score (https://www.espn.com/nba-summer-league/boxscore?gameId=401140777&league=nba-summer-utah) line:

Minutes: 22
FG: 5-5 (0-0 3PT)
Points: 10
Rebounds: 8 (4 O, 4 D)
Assists: 3
Steals: 3
Blocks: 2
Turnovers: 1
Fouls: 2
+/-: +6

Someone is quick to post to YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_wFhco-cJv8). There's a good offense/defense/offense sequence at 1:00-1:30.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_wFhco-cJv8

The NBA has tweeted a shorter video (https://twitter.com/NBA/status/1145841350157438977) of his 2 blocks.

Okay, he looked really good in those highlights. He appears to be in great shape and was moving with more fluidity and speed than I ever recall him displaying. His timing on blocks was seamless and his hands were awesome on rebounds and when receiving passes. He's going to get signed by someone.

Dukeford
07-01-2019, 08:43 PM
I'm hoping awhom111 does the nightly game recaps, but Marques Bolden's debut is complete (as a starter) and here is his box score (https://www.espn.com/nba-summer-league/boxscore?gameId=401140777&league=nba-summer-utah) line:

Minutes: 22
FG: 5-5 (0-0 3PT)
Points: 10
Rebounds: 8 (4 O, 4 D)
Assists: 3
Steals: 3
Blocks: 2
Turnovers: 1
Fouls: 2
+/-: +6

Someone is quick to post to YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_wFhco-cJv8). There's a good offense/defense/offense sequence at 1:00-1:30.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_wFhco-cJv8

The NBA has tweeted a shorter video (https://twitter.com/NBA/status/1145841350157438977) of his 2 blocks.

Sometimes a player's talent level can be surprising when they're allowed to play longer than 3 continuous minutes in one game.

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
07-01-2019, 09:00 PM
Sometimes a player's talent level can be surprising when they're allowed to play longer than 3 continuous minutes in one game.

He clearly should have started over that Williamson kid.

brevity
07-01-2019, 10:25 PM
The Warriors-Kings game just started, and the announcers said that Marvin Bagley will not play tonight. No need to stay up for that particular reason. (For those of you who are Kyle Guy completists, keep watching.)

Of course, if I followed the team on Twitter, I would have posted this earlier:

Sacramento Kings (https://twitter.com/SacramentoKings/status/1145776994283474945) @SacramentoKings

For tonight’s California Classic game, Marvin Bagley III (sore right Achilles) and Frank Mason III (sore right hip) will both be OUT.

Both will be listed as day-to-day going forward.

12:31 PM - 1 Jul 2019

awhom111
07-02-2019, 12:09 AM
The Bucks announced a roster:
https://www.nba.com/bucks/release/bucks-announce-roster-mgm-resorts-nba-summer-league-2019

Technically this is not a final roster, but the Sixers have a camp list:
https://www.nba.com/sixers/news/summer-league-minicamp-begins-complex

Here is the full boxscore from Marques's game as they lost to the Spurs 97-89:
https://www.nba.com/games/20190701/SASCLE#/boxscore

Jarrell Brantley gave us the honor of the first excessive foul game with 8 in the loss as the Grizzlies beat the Jazz 85-68 as Grayson Allen waits to switch teams:
https://www.nba.com/games/20190701/MEMUTA#/boxscore

Excessive fouling also happens in California as Chris Silva had 7 for the Lakers in their 106-79 loss to the Lakers.
https://www.nba.com/games/20190701/MIALAL#/boxscore

The likelihood of Marvin playing seems smaller because anything related to the achilles rightfully scares people right now, but the Kings still won 81-77 as Damian Jones figures that his Summer League time will end soon and thus picked up 7 fouls for the Warriors:
https://www.nba.com/games/20190701/GSWSAC#/boxscore

Tuesday's Schedule (times ET):
Grizzlies vs Spurs, 7pm NBATV
Cavaliers (Marques) vs Jazz, 9pm NBATV
Lakers vs Warriors, 9pm ESPN2
Heat vs Kings (Marvin?), 11pm NBATV

JNort
07-02-2019, 12:26 AM
He clearly should have started over that Williamson kid.
No need for a fallacious remark.

UrinalCake
07-02-2019, 10:49 AM
Bolden did look great in that highlight video. I think the more open game of the NBA will suit him better, as he can use his length and quickness to recover in space on defense and find gaps on offense. He also had some nice passes, displaying a court vision that he never showed at Duke. He has kind of an awkward running style and I question whether he'll get up and down the floor quickly enough. And obviously developing a 10 foot jump shot would be huge. I'm really happy for him. I of course would love to have had him back for his senior year, but he felt it was time to move on so I'll be rooting for him to succeed.

dukelifer
07-02-2019, 11:12 AM
Bolden did look great in that highlight video. I think the more open game of the NBA will suit him better, as he can use his length and quickness to recover in space on defense and find gaps on offense. He also had some nice passes, displaying a court vision that he never showed at Duke. He has kind of an awkward running style and I question whether he'll get up and down the floor quickly enough. And obviously developing a 10 foot jump shot would be huge. I'm really happy for him. I of course would love to have had him back for his senior year, but he felt it was time to move on so I'll be rooting for him to succeed.

If he does not make the Cavs the Lakers will be looking for many bodies. I think he has a shot to stick somewhere.

JasonEvans
07-02-2019, 11:48 AM
I just hope Lucy isn't holding a football when the Hawks summer league team plays.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D-e7VS_XkAATSOA.jpg:large

Also, Reid Travis sighting!!

kAzE
07-02-2019, 12:11 PM
I just hope Lucy isn't holding a football when the Hawks summer league team plays.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D-e7VS_XkAATSOA.jpg:large

Also, Reid Travis sighting!!

Huh? No DeAndre Hunter/Cam Reddish?

EDIT: Wait, I think know why. Trades can't be consummated until July 6, and both of those picks were acquired via trade.

rtnorthrup
07-02-2019, 12:17 PM
The NBA has to fix this. It's bad enough to make kids walk up to the stage on the biggest night of their life wearing the gear of a team that everyone knows they are not going to play for, but penalizing the kid and the teams by not letting them be rostered for the start of summer league is just boneheaded.

UrinalCake
07-02-2019, 12:25 PM
I just hope Lucy isn't holding a football when the Hawks summer league team plays.

Man, we’re getting old - Charlie Brown’s kid is all grown up 8-P

brevity
07-02-2019, 12:25 PM
Three more rosters (besides Atlanta) are released.

Atlanta Hawks (https://www.nba.com/hawks/atlanta-hawks-announce-summer-league-roster): It's the roster Jason posted above. Where's Cam Reddish? Jeff Siegel of Peachtree Hoops tweets (https://twitter.com/jgsiegel/status/1146094403246706688): "A bit of a short roster, but they'll add De'Andre Hunter and Bruno Fernando as soon as those trades are official. Cam Reddish isn't playing with the core injury."

New York Knicks (https://www.nba.com/knicks/front-office-news/new-york-knicks-announce-2019-summer-league-roster): Draft picks RJ Barrett and Ignas Brazdeikis join Knicks players Kevin Knox, Mitchell Robinson, Henry Ellenson, and Allonzo Trier (plus 2-way player Kadeem Allen).

Portland Trail Blazers (https://www.nba.com/blazers/story/2019/7/1/2019-nba-summer-league-roster): Some ACC variety with Gary Trent Jr. plus draft pick Nassir Little (UNC), undrafted Jaylen Hoard (Wake Forest), and overseas pro Zach Auguste (Notre Dame).

Detroit Pistons (https://www.nba.com/resources/static/team/v2/pistons/files/2019_summerleague_roster.pdf): So hot off the press that it's still a PDF file. Mild ACC interest with returning Piston Bruce Brown (Miami) and undrafted rookie Marcquise Reed (Clemson). Draft picks Sekou Doumbouya and Deividas Sirvydis are there, along with undrafted Louis King (Oregon) and Matt McQuaid (Michigan State).

BD80
07-02-2019, 01:33 PM


New York Knicks (https://www.nba.com/knicks/front-office-news/new-york-knicks-announce-2019-summer-league-roster): Draft picks RJ Barrett and Ignas Brazdeikis join Knicks players Kevin Knox, Mitchell Robinson, Henry Ellenson, and Allonzo Trier (plus 2-way player Kadeem Allen).

...

Detroit Pistons (https://www.nba.com/resources/static/team/v2/pistons/files/2019_summerleague_roster.pdf): So hot off the press that it's still a PDF file. Mild ACC interest with returning Piston Bruce Brown (Miami) and undrafted rookie Marcquise Reed (Clemson). Draft picks Sekou Doumbouya and Deividas Sirvydis are there, along with undrafted Louis King (Oregon) and Matt McQuaid (Michigan State).

The worst teams should have the best summer league teams … The Knicks summer team looks good on paper!

The Pistons really think they got lucky in this draft. Not hugely better, but that the pickups were fortuitous. Sekou should have gone 8 picks higher than 15, and may be one of the best 5 players in the draft. Delvidas could have been a first rounder, and he may be too good to stash overseas for a year as was the original plan. King is wildly athletic and, well, just wild. Certainly first round talent, and no risk as a free agent (other than using up one of the two-way spots).

JNort
07-02-2019, 02:23 PM
The worst teams should have the best summer league teams … The Knicks summer team looks good on paper!

The Pistons really think they got lucky in this draft. Not hugely better, but that the pickups were fortuitous. Sekou should have gone 8 picks higher than 15, and may be one of the best 5 players in the draft. Delvidas could have been a first rounder, and he may be too good to stash overseas for a year as was the original plan. King is wildly athletic and, well, just wild. Certainly first round talent, and no risk as a free agent (other than using up one of the two-way spots).
I would hope so... It's essentialy their core going into the regular season. Have we got an under/over yet on this teams win total yet? Seems to me it will be between them and Charlotte for the bottom.


Sadly I would muuuuccchhhh rather have the Knicks roster at every position.

tbyers11
07-02-2019, 02:35 PM
I would hope so... It's essentialy their core going into the regular season. Have we got an under/over yet on this teams win total yet? Seems to me it will be between them and Charlotte for the bottom.


Sadly I would muuuuccchhhh rather have the Knicks roster at every position.

The Wizards say hold my lineup card (https://twitter.com/CandaceDBuckner/status/1145891392314642432)

9576

I think right now it is between Washington and Charlotte for worst roster.

I think the Knicks have a pretty strong top 4 (Dennis Smith, RJ, Kevin Knox, and Mitchell Robinson) that will place them at awful but not god-awful

JasonEvans
07-02-2019, 02:57 PM
The Wizards say hold my lineup card (https://twitter.com/CandaceDBuckner/status/1145891392314642432)

9576

Wow... that is brutally bad. I feel for Bradley Beal. He's gonna be begging for a trade.

Meanwhile, now that the league year has advanced to the 2019-20 season, the first year of John Wall's supermax contract that pays him more than $38 million next season has begun. Yup, his supermax had not yet kicked in when he had that crippling injury. Here is what the Wiz have to look forward to in terms of paying Wall.

19-20: $38,199,000
20-21: $41,254,920
21-22: $44,310,840
22-23: $47,366,760
Total: $171,131,520

-Jason "$47.3 million for a dude who will be 32 in 2022, just blew out his Achilles, and who has played more than 70 games only 4 times in 9 years (make it 4 out of 10 after he misses this season)" Evans

kAzE
07-02-2019, 03:41 PM
Wow... that is brutally bad. I feel for Bradley Beal. He's gonna be begging for a trade.

Meanwhile, now that the league year has advanced to the 2019-20 season, the first year of John Wall's supermax contract that pays him more than $38 million next season has begun. Yup, his supermax had not yet kicked in when he had that crippling injury. Here is what the Wiz have to look forward to in terms of paying Wall.

19-20: $38,199,000
20-21: $41,254,920
21-22: $44,310,840
22-23: $47,366,760
Total: $171,131,520

-Jason "$47.3 million for a dude who will be 32 in 2022, just blew out his Achilles, and who has played more than 70 games only 4 times in 9 years (make it 4 out of 10 after he misses this season)" Evans

Not to get too off topic, but where does John Wall's career rank at this point in terms of #1 overall picks this century? I wonder if he's even in the top half.

Truth&Justise
07-02-2019, 05:17 PM
Not to get too off topic, but where does John Wall's career rank at this point in terms of #1 overall picks this century? I wonder if he's even in the top half.

Interesting question. Going purely based off win-shares, the list looks like this:

1. LeBron James (226.6)
2. Dwight Howard (128.9)
3. Blake Griffin (75.3)
4. Anthony Davis (72.0)
5. Yao Ming (65.9)
6. Kyrie Irving (58.4)
7. Andrew Bogut (50.6)
8. Kenyon Martin (48.0)
9. Karl-Anthony Towns (45.4)
10. John Wall (44.3)
11. Derrick Rose (37.2)
12. Kwame Brown (20.8)
13. Andrea Bargnani (18.9)
14. Ben Simmons (17.5)
15. Andrew Wiggins (13.0)
16. Greg Oden (7.3)
17. Deandre Ayton (5.8)
18. Markelle Fultz (0.5)
19. Anthony Bennett (0.5)

I know win-shares isn't a perfect metric, and it's cumulative so it rewards guys who have been around longer, but it seems like a good place to start.

Wall is smack-dab in the middle. And depending on his form when he returns to playing, he's likely to pass Kenyon Martin and Andrew Bogut, though Ben Simmons seems like a threat to pass him before long. So he'll probably remain in the middle of this list. In other words, he's an average #1 pick this century.

BD80
07-02-2019, 06:48 PM
Interesting question. Going purely based off win-shares, the list looks like this:

1. LeBron James (226.6)
2. Dwight Howard (128.9)
3. Blake Griffin (75.3)
4. Anthony Davis (72.0)
5. Yao Ming (65.9)
6. Kyrie Irving (58.4)
7. Andrew Bogut (50.6)
8. Kenyon Martin (48.0)
9. Karl-Anthony Towns (45.4)
10. John Wall (44.3)
11. Derrick Rose (37.2)
12. Kwame Brown (20.8)
13. Andrea Bargnani (18.9)
14. Ben Simmons (17.5)
15. Andrew Wiggins (13.0)
16. Greg Oden (7.3)
17. Deandre Ayton (5.8)
18. Markelle Fultz (0.5)
19. Anthony Bennett (0.5)

I know win-shares isn't a perfect metric, and it's cumulative so it rewards guys who have been around longer, but it seems like a good place to start.

...

Well, the Lakers may be able to throw two of those guys on the court at the same time, but so can the Pistons! Griffin and Rose will have the Pistons playoff bound baby! Second year in a row!

brevity
07-02-2019, 07:44 PM
One more roster and one injury update.

Brooklyn Nets (https://www.nba.com/nets/news/2019/07/02/brooklyn-nets-announce-summer-league-roster): Draft picks Nicolas Claxton and Jaylen Hands get the kind of veteran leadership that only Theo Pinson can provide. Ahmed Hill, formerly of Virginia Tech, is also present.

I believe that only the Chicago Bulls and Phoenix Suns have yet to announce a roster.


Tuesday's Schedule (times ET):
Grizzlies vs Spurs, 7pm NBATV
Cavaliers (Marques) vs Jazz, 9pm NBATV
Lakers vs Warriors, 9pm ESPN2
Heat vs Kings (Marvin?), 11pm NBATV

Now the Kings have tweeted that Marvin Bagley is being held out altogether (https://twitter.com/SacramentoKings/status/1146147400257421312). So we went from a local news report last week of Bagley and Giles to just Bagley to just Bagley in the California Classic to nothing at all. Thanks, Sacramento.

fuse
07-02-2019, 08:11 PM
Interesting question. Going purely based off win-shares, the list looks like this:

1. LeBron James (226.6)
2. Dwight Howard (128.9)
3. Blake Griffin (75.3)
4. Anthony Davis (72.0)
5. Yao Ming (65.9)
6. Kyrie Irving (58.4)
7. Andrew Bogut (50.6)
8. Kenyon Martin (48.0)
9. Karl-Anthony Towns (45.4)
10. John Wall (44.3)
11. Derrick Rose (37.2)
12. Kwame Brown (20.8)
13. Andrea Bargnani (18.9)
14. Ben Simmons (17.5)
15. Andrew Wiggins (13.0)
16. Greg Oden (7.3)
17. Deandre Ayton (5.8)
18. Markelle Fultz (0.5)
19. Anthony Bennett (0.5)

I know win-shares isn't a perfect metric, and it's cumulative so it rewards guys who have been around longer, but it seems like a good place to start.

Wall is smack-dab in the middle. And depending on his form when he returns to playing, he's likely to pass Kenyon Martin and Andrew Bogut, though Ben Simmons seems like a threat to pass him before long. So he'll probably remain in the middle of this list. In other words, he's an average #1 pick this century.

I don’t watch enough NBA basketball to even begin to form a cogent argument for anything different.

I feel quite badly for those ranked below Kwame Brown. With the possible exception of Greg Oden (who deserves more than a little slack for being injury prone), I’m not sure what universe I am living in if there were a worse number one pick.

subzero02
07-02-2019, 08:46 PM
I don’t watch enough NBA basketball to even begin to form a cogent argument for anything different.

I feel quite badly for those ranked below Kwame Brown. With the possible exception of Greg Oden (who deserves more than a little slack for being injury prone), I’m not sure what universe I am living in if there were a worse number one pick.

Anthony Bennett is by far and away the worst number one pick on this list. Oladipo, Giannis, Steven Adams, CJ McCollum and Dennis Schroeder were drafted after him. Bennett was drafted in 2013 by Cleveland but hasn't played an NBA game since 2017. He's currently in the G-league and plays for the agua caliente clippers.

Here's a quick glance at some of his NBA Career stats:

151 games played, 4 career starts, 12.6 minutes per game, 4.4 ppg, 3.1 rpg, .5 apg

Wahoo2000
07-02-2019, 10:45 PM
Anthony Bennett is by far and away the worst number one pick on this list. Oladipo, Giannis, Steven Adams, CJ McCollum and Dennis Schroeder were drafted after him. Bennett was drafted in 2013 by Cleveland but hasn't played an NBA game since 2017. He's currently in the G-league and plays for the agua caliente clippers.

Here's a quick glance at some of his NBA Career stats:

151 games played, 4 career starts, 12.6 minutes per game, 4.4 ppg, 3.1 rpg, .5 apg

^^^THIS^^^

Anthony Bennett is in a class by himself. People can complain about how "bust-a-riffic" (really seems like that word would be better suited being applied to the likes of Raquel Welch*, but I digress) guys like Kwame or Olowokandi were, but they at least carved out some semblance of careers as role players. Bennett isn't a has-been. He's a never-was. Only lasted 4 years in the NBA and was a total washout overseas as well.





*No, I am NOT that old. Yes, that was honestly the first name that came to mind. <shrugs>

awhom111
07-03-2019, 12:14 AM
The Spurs beat the Grizzlies 99-84 in a generally unremarkable game:
https://www.nba.com/games/20190702/MEMSAS#/boxscore

Marques left the game after only 7 minutes with knee soreness as the Cavs lost to the Jazz 86-71:
https://www.nba.com/games/20190702/CLEUTA#/boxscore

The Lakers beat the Warriors 100-90:
https://www.nba.com/games/20190702/LALGSW#/boxscore

Teams finally got into fouling for the last game as Chris Silva one again wanted a special mention in Miami's 89-88 with another 8 while Hollis Thompson and Eric Mika got 8 apiece to make up for the lack of Marvin.

Wednesday's Schedule (times ET):
Heat vs Warriors, 3pm NBATV
Lakers vs Kings (no Marvin), 5pm NBATV
Cavaliers (Marques?) vs Grizzlies, 7pm NBATV
Spurs vs Jazz, 9pm NBATV

JasonEvans
07-03-2019, 06:23 AM
The conversation about Anthony Bennett brings up another factor in the NBA draft that makes success in the league so difficult for a GM. Not only are individual picks really hard to project (every year there are 2nd rounders that perform better than multiple lottery picks) but some drafts simply don't have the talent of others. I mean, in the past decade, New Orleans and Cleveland have each gotten phenomenally lucky and won the lottery twice. Cleveland's 2 top picks turned out to be Andrew Wiggins** and Anthony Bennett. New Orleans 2 picks turned out to be Anthony Davis and Zion Williamson.

That just ain't fair!

-Jason "worth noting that Wiggins was considered close to a sure thing... not much worse of a prospect than Zion, IIRC... ponder that for a bit" Evans

**- Cleveland parlayed Wiggins into Kevin Love, of course... a move I thought was foolish at the time. Shows what I know.

JetpackJesus
07-03-2019, 07:13 AM
The conversation about Anthony Bennett brings up another factor in the NBA draft that makes success in the league so difficult for a GM. Not only are individual picks really hard to project (every year there are 2nd rounders that perform better than multiple lottery picks) but some drafts simply don't have the talent of others. I mean, in the past decade, New Orleans and Cleveland have each gotten phenomenally lucky and won the lottery twice. Cleveland's 2 top picks turned out to be Andrew Wiggins** and Anthony Bennett. New Orleans 2 picks turned out to be Anthony Davis and Zion Williamson.

That just ain't fair!

-Jason "worth noting that Wiggins was considered close to a sure thing... not much worse of a prospect than Zion, IIRC... ponder that for a bit" Evans

**- Cleveland parlayed Wiggins into Kevin Love, of course... a move I thought was foolish at the time. Shows what I know.
Setting aside whether it will come to pass, Zion is on the LBJ, Shaq, KG, Kobe scale of prospects, not the Andrew Wiggins scale of prospects..

JasonEvans
07-03-2019, 07:48 AM
Setting aside whether it will come to pass, Zion is on the LBJ, Shaq, KG, Kobe scale of prospects, not the Andrew Wiggins scale of prospects..

Kobe was barely a lottery pick. I get that the NBA drafted differently back when Kobe came out of high school, but you cannot tell me everyone was certain Kobe would become a star but 12 teams passed on him so they could take Lorenzen Wright, Kerry Kittles, and Todd Fuller.

Kevin Garnett was taken 5th in 1995. That was the draft where Joe Smith went #1. You seem to be saying that Garnett was one of these rare super-prospects that everyone knows will become an annual all-NBA player and yet he went #5.

Setting aside the fallacy of the guys you pick as the top tier of prospects, allow me to remind you of what folks thought about Wiggins when he came out. NBADraft.net wrote (https://www.nbadraft.net/players/andrew-wiggins):


The sky is the limit for him, as he's been blessed with the type of athleticism that does not come along in every class. Considered by some as the best athlete to surface in 10 years, since LeBron James.

Here is what Bleacher Report (http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1706530-nba-teams-set-to-tank-next-season-for-shot-at-andrew-wiggins#slide0) said:


Canadian-born Andrew Wiggins is the best prospect to enter the league since LeBron James was picked first overall 10 years ago. With more hype than Kevin Durant, Blake Griffin, Derrick Rose and Kyrie Irving, Wiggins is set to take the NBA by storm.

Here is an article talking about how NBA teams were tanking so they could get the best shot at drafting Wiggins: https://www.sportsnet.ca/basketball/of-course-nba-teams-will-tank-for-wiggins/

I could dig up more. Suffice it to say that Wiggins was not one of those "maybe he will be good" type of picks. Everyone thought he was a truly rare prospect, not the kind of kid who comes along every year in the draft.

-Jason "I'm not entirely sure why I started this conversation... I think it was to remind myself not to be too over-hyped about Zion ;) " Evans

subzero02
07-03-2019, 08:35 AM
Kobe was barely a lottery pick. I get that the NBA drafted differently back when Kobe came out of high school, but you cannot tell me everyone was certain Kobe would become a star but 12 teams passed on him so they could take Lorenzen Wright, Kerry Kittles, and Todd Fuller.

Kevin Garnett was taken 5th in 1995. That was the draft where Joe Smith went #1. You seem to be saying that Garnett was one of these rare super-prospects that everyone knows will become an annual all-NBA player and yet he went #5.

Setting aside the fallacy of the guys you pick as the top tier of prospects, allow me to remind you of what folks thought about Wiggins when he came out. NBADraft.net wrote (https://www.nbadraft.net/players/andrew-wiggins):



Here is what Bleacher Report (http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1706530-nba-teams-set-to-tank-next-season-for-shot-at-andrew-wiggins#slide0) said:



Here is an article talking about how NBA teams were tanking so they could get the best shot at drafting Wiggins: https://www.sportsnet.ca/basketball/of-course-nba-teams-will-tank-for-wiggins/

I could dig up more. Suffice it to say that Wiggins was not one of those "maybe he will be good" type of picks. Everyone thought he was a truly rare prospect, not the kind of kid who comes along every year in the draft.

-Jason "I'm not entirely sure why I started this conversation... I think it was to remind myself not to be too over-hyped about Zion ;) " Evans

Some people thought he was destined to be an all star. Everyone drafted ahead of him not named Joe Smith made at least one all star game. (mydess, stackhouse, and r. Wallace) I know that Calipari was convinced of his future stardom. Leading up to the 1995 draft, a team asked for his opinion on KG. Calipari said Kevin was already better than rising junior Marcus Camby, a 17 year nba player and the #2 pick in the 1996 draft.

nmduke2001
07-03-2019, 10:21 AM
Kobe was barely a lottery pick. I get that the NBA drafted differently back when Kobe came out of high school, but you cannot tell me everyone was certain Kobe would become a star but 12 teams passed on him so they could take Lorenzen Wright, Kerry Kittles, and Todd Fuller.

Kevin Garnett was taken 5th in 1995. That was the draft where Joe Smith went #1. You seem to be saying that Garnett was one of these rare super-prospects that everyone knows will become an annual all-NBA player and yet he went #5.

Setting aside the fallacy of the guys you pick as the top tier of prospects, allow me to remind you of what folks thought about Wiggins when he came out. NBADraft.net wrote (https://www.nbadraft.net/players/andrew-wiggins):



Here is what Bleacher Report (http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1706530-nba-teams-set-to-tank-next-season-for-shot-at-andrew-wiggins#slide0) said:



Here is an article talking about how NBA teams were tanking so they could get the best shot at drafting Wiggins: https://www.sportsnet.ca/basketball/of-course-nba-teams-will-tank-for-wiggins/

I could dig up more. Suffice it to say that Wiggins was not one of those "maybe he will be good" type of picks. Everyone thought he was a truly rare prospect, not the kind of kid who comes along every year in the draft.

-Jason "I'm not entirely sure why I started this conversation... I think it was to remind myself not to be too over-hyped about Zion ;) " Evans
The year before Wiggins went to Kansas, Bobby Hurley was on sports radio. They asked him about recruiting. He couldn't use his name but he said something like, "there's this kid out of Canada that would be an all-star in the NBA this year if he was there. He's the best prospect that I have ever seen, granted I wasn't recruiting when LeBron was in HS."

JNort
07-03-2019, 10:26 AM
The Wizards say hold my lineup card (https://twitter.com/CandaceDBuckner/status/1145891392314642432)

9576

I think right now it is between Washington and Charlotte for worst roster.

I think the Knicks have a pretty strong top 4 (Dennis Smith, RJ, Kevin Knox, and Mitchell Robinson) that will place them at awful but not god-awful
I honestly love that lineup so much more than the Hornets. Again I might would take all of them over the Hornets.

Tazman10
07-03-2019, 01:20 PM
Setting aside the fallacy of the guys you pick as the top tier of prospects, allow me to remind you of what folks thought about Wiggins when he came out.

The problem is no one gets to know these kids. Some guys come out with all the hype and believe it is all made for them and they don’t need to do anything. There has to be a balance between them knowing they have the talent but they need work to do and show they are willing to do the work.

I still hear the stories about the guys who went before MJ. He had the talent but it took years in the NBA before he realized he needed a team around him to win it all. Not all the picks before him were bad but after his realization he became the NBA’s best player ever. Unless you spent hours upon hours with him before the draft there was no way to tell of that kind of stardom.

I think Zion will be good. His is humble and I think he realizes there is work to do but is his humbleness too much? Will that hold him back? I was very disappointed him and RJ did not get to the final four. Is that an indication he can’t lead an NBA team? If he and RJ could not lead their college team to the great high I am not fully sure he has the magic for the NBA. So I am looking forward for the years to come to how it plays out but I do understand why some people have reservations.

JasonEvans
07-03-2019, 01:47 PM
Some people thought he was destined to be an all star. Everyone drafted ahead of him not named Joe Smith made at least one all star game. (mydess, stackhouse, and r. Wallace) I know that Calipari was convinced of his future stardom. Leading up to the 1995 draft, a team asked for his opinion on KG. Calipari said Kevin was already better than rising junior Marcus Camby, a 17 year nba player and the #2 pick in the 1996 draft.

My point was that if (as the original poster said) Garnett and Kobe were prospects on the level of Lebron, Shaq, and Zion they would not have gone 5th and 13th in the draft. I was merely pointed out that the poster was using ex-post-facto analysis of how careers turned out to talk about what kind of prospect Andrew Wiggins was when he was drafted.

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
07-03-2019, 02:32 PM
Setting aside the fallacy of the guys you pick as the top tier of prospects, allow me to remind you of what folks thought about Wiggins when he came out.

The problem is no one gets to know these kids. Some guys come out with all the hype and believe it is all made for them and they don’t need to do anything. There has to be a balance between them knowing they have the talent but they need work to do and show they are willing to do the work.

I still hear the stories about the guys who went before MJ. He had the talent but it took years in the NBA before he realized he needed a team around him to win it all. Not all the picks before him were bad but after his realization he became the NBA’s best player ever. Unless you spent hours upon hours with him before the draft there was no way to tell of that kind of stardom.

I think Zion will be good. His is humble and I think he realizes there is work to do but is his humbleness too much? Will that hold him back? I was very disappointed him and RJ did not get to the final four. Is that an indication he can’t lead an NBA team? If he and RJ could not lead their college team to the great high I am not fully sure he has the magic for the NBA. So I am looking forward for the years to come to how it plays out but I do understand why some people have reservations.

I don't quite follow your first paragraph but I think I agree with the gist of your post. I am leery of pointing to other players who were number one busts and saying "wow, peoplw thought they would be as good as Zion!"
We all loved Zion at Duke, but heck, anything can happen. If anything, the fact that other players as hyped as Zion didn't pan out should be a cautionary tale.

brevity
07-03-2019, 03:26 PM
Bringing up the rear. Now all NBA teams have announced a Summer League roster. (I didn't see a China roster reported in the news, but then, I never saw Croatia's roster reported either.)

Chicago Bulls (https://www.nba.com/bulls/news/bulls-announce-2019-mgm-resorts-nba-summer-league-roster): They drafted Coby White (UNC) and Daniel Gafford (Arkansas), and surrounded them with a bunch of players who are not from the ACC or making a career comeback. I'm struggling to find the angle here.

Phoenix Suns (https://www.nba.com/suns/press-release/phoenix-suns-announce-2019-summer-league-roster#gref): Even without ACC draft picks Cameron Johnson and Ty Jerome -- who were acquired by trade and presumably join the team in a few days -- this is a more interesting lineup. Jalen Lecque skipped college, wasn't drafted, and signed a 4-year deal (https://www.slamonline.com/nba/suns-to-sign-undrafted-guard-jalen-lecque-to-four-year-deal/) (2 years guaranteed) with Phoenix. Also listed are Final Four players Jared Harper (Auburn), Tariq Owens (Texas Tech), and Jack Salt (UVA). And let's not forget a couple of assistant coaches: Randy Ayers (formerly of Ohio State) and Steve Blake (formerly of Johnny Rockets (https://deadspin.com/americas-dumbest-student-athlete-nominee-steve-blake-5588289)).

Talking points! Take notes, Chicago.

Tazman10
07-03-2019, 03:39 PM
I don't quite follow your first paragraph but I think I agree with the gist of your post.

I was a quote I was responding to but I didn’t capture the “quote” part.

Edouble
07-03-2019, 03:47 PM
We all loved Zion at Duke, but heck, anything can happen. If anything, the fact that other players as hyped as Zion didn't pan out should be a cautionary tale.

Noone has been as hyped as Zion except for LeBron and IMHO it's really not debatable. Wiggins, AD, none of 'em.

During draft coverage, they have never cut back to check in on a top draft pick so regularly while the rest of the draft was going on.

Edouble
07-03-2019, 03:52 PM
My point was that if (as the original poster said) Garnett and Kobe were prospects on the level of Lebron, Shaq, and Zion they would not have gone 5th and 13th in the draft. I was merely pointed out that the poster was using ex-post-facto analysis of how careers turned out to talk about what kind of prospect Andrew Wiggins was when he was drafted.

KG was pretty hyped IIRC. He was on the cover of SI and the train was really rolling as the '95 draft approached. I thought he was at the level of Shaq hype, to be honest.

Kobe not so much.

FWIW, I never got the hype around Wiggins. I didn't think he was that athletically gifted that it would be a game changer. Looked kind of like another Ricky Davis to me at the time.

subzero02
07-03-2019, 05:11 PM
Setting aside the fallacy of the guys you pick as the top tier of prospects, allow me to remind you of what folks thought about Wiggins when he came out.

The problem is no one gets to know these kids. Some guys come out with all the hype and believe it is all made for them and they don’t need to do anything. There has to be a balance between them knowing they have the talent but they need work to do and show they are willing to do the work.

I still hear the stories about the guys who went before MJ. He had the talent but it took years in the NBA before he realized he needed a team around him to win it all. Not all the picks before him were bad but after his realization he became the NBA’s best player ever. Unless you spent hours upon hours with him before the draft there was no way to tell of that kind of stardom.

I think Zion will be good. His is humble and I think he realizes there is work to do but is his humbleness too much? Will that hold him back? I was very disappointed him and RJ did not get to the final four. Is that an indication he can’t lead an NBA team? If he and RJ could not lead their college team to the great high I am not fully sure he has the magic for the NBA. So I am looking forward for the years to come to how it plays out but I do understand why some people have reservations.

Hopefully the stories you hear regarding each player have very little in common.

devilirium
07-03-2019, 06:56 PM
Setting aside the fallacy of the guys you pick as the top tier of prospects, allow me to remind you of what folks thought about Wiggins when he came out.

The problem is no one gets to know these kids. Some guys come out with all the hype and believe it is all made for them and they don’t need to do anything. There has to be a balance between them knowing they have the talent but they need work to do and show they are willing to do the work.

I still hear the stories about the guys who went before MJ. He had the talent but it took years in the NBA before he realized he needed a team around him to win it all. Not all the picks before him were bad but after his realization he became the NBA’s best player ever. Unless you spent hours upon hours with him before the draft there was no way to tell of that kind of stardom.

I think Zion will be good. His is humble and I think he realizes there is work to do but is his humbleness too much? Will that hold him back? I was very disappointed him and RJ did not get to the final four. Is that an indication he can’t lead an NBA team? If he and RJ could not lead their college team to the great high I am not fully sure he has the magic for the NBA. So I am looking forward for the years to come to how it plays out but I do understand why some people have reservations.

So Carmelo Anthony won a natty in his only year at Syracuse. How did that turn out for him in the NBA? I don't remember Carmelo advancing to the Eastern or Western finals. Jordan won a natty, but no one would consider that he led UNC that year--a big part, but not a guy that was featured like Zion. Different cases entirely. You may be right that Zion doesn't ascend to Lebron or Kobe status--but what happens in the NCAAs isn't predictive of what will happen in the NBA.

NSDukeFan
07-03-2019, 08:09 PM
So Carmelo Anthony won a natty in his only year at Syracuse. How did that turn out for him in the NBA? I don't remember Carmelo advancing to the Eastern or Western finals. Jordan won a natty, but no one would consider that he led UNC that year--a big part, but not a guy that was featured like Zion. Different cases entirely. You may be right that Zion doesn't ascend to Lebron or Kobe status--but what happens in the NCAAs isn't predictive of what will happen in the NBA.

What about when Kawhi led his, ummm, never mind.

jimsumner
07-03-2019, 08:51 PM
Plenty of truly great NBA players did not lead their college teams anywhere close to NCAA titles. Shaquille O'Neal, Kevin Durant, Tim Duncan, James Harden, Chris Paul, Blake Griffin, Charles Barkley and on and on and on. Ralph Sampson never made a title game in four seasons. Houston had Clyde Drexler and Hakeem Olajuwon on the same team and couldn't win a title.

Meanwhile, the list of Final Four MOPs includes such notables as Donald Williams, Miles Simon, Ryan Arcidiacono, Jeff Sheppard, Joel Berry, Anderson Hunt and Corey Brewer, among others.

Zion Williamson may not live up to the hype. The hype is pretty out of control. But I do not think an excess of humility is going to hold him back.

subzero02
07-03-2019, 09:13 PM
Plenty of truly great NBA players did not lead their college teams anywhere close to NCAA titles. Shaquille O'Neal, Kevin Durant, Tim Duncan, James Harden, Chris Paul, Blake Griffin, Charles Barkley and on and on and on. Ralph Sampson never made a title game in four seasons. Houston had Clyde Drexler and Hakeem Olajuwon on the same team and couldn't win a title.

Meanwhile, the list of Final Four MOPs includes such notables as Donald Williams, Miles Simon, Ryan Arcidiacono, Jeff Sheppard, Joel Berry, Anderson Hunt and Corey Brewer, among others.

Zion Williamson may not live up to the hype. The hype is pretty out of control. But I do not think an excess of humility is going to hold him back.

There's also a big difference between speaking with humility off the court and playing with it on the court. There is nothing humble about his game; he's a self professed killer who plays with a consistent level of aggression that 99.99% of players never approach.

awhom111
07-03-2019, 11:18 PM
Ibrahima Faye got 8 fouls in 13 minutes for the Heat in their 73-65 win, but none of them were on the Jimmer after he left the Warriors to preserve himself for overseas play:
https://www.nba.com/games/20190703/MIAGSW#/boxscore

If we were to care about results at all, the Lakers did beat the Kings in exciting fashion 99-97:
https://www.nba.com/games/20190703/LALSAC#/boxscore

No Marques as the Cavaliers lost to the Grizzlies 81-68:
https://www.nba.com/games/20190703/CLEMEM#/boxscore

Josh Sharma won the foul ratio contest with 7 in 10 minutes in an 84-81 win for the Jazz over the Spurs:
https://www.nba.com/games/20190703/SASUTA#/boxscore


Bringing up the rear. Now all NBA teams have announced a Summer League roster. (I didn't see a China roster reported in the news, but then, I never saw Croatia's roster reported either.)

Chicago Bulls (https://www.nba.com/bulls/news/bulls-announce-2019-mgm-resorts-nba-summer-league-roster): They drafted Coby White (UNC) and Daniel Gafford (Arkansas), and surrounded them with a bunch of players who are not from the ACC or making a career comeback. I'm struggling to find the angle here.

Phoenix Suns (https://www.nba.com/suns/press-release/phoenix-suns-announce-2019-summer-league-roster#gref): Even without ACC draft picks Cameron Johnson and Ty Jerome -- who were acquired by trade and presumably join the team in a few days -- this is a more interesting lineup. Jalen Lecque skipped college, wasn't drafted, and signed a 4-year deal (https://www.slamonline.com/nba/suns-to-sign-undrafted-guard-jalen-lecque-to-four-year-deal/) (2 years guaranteed) with Phoenix. Also listed are Final Four players Jared Harper (Auburn), Tariq Owens (Texas Tech), and Jack Salt (UVA). And let's not forget a couple of assistant coaches: Randy Ayers (formerly of Ohio State) and Steve Blake (formerly of Johnny Rockets (https://deadspin.com/americas-dumbest-student-athlete-nominee-steve-blake-5588289)).

Talking points! Take notes, Chicago.

I do think that it's important to note that Wendell is having surgery that will keep him out for a while, leaving him unable to play for the Bulls now, but he is supposed to be ready for training camp.

The Grizzlies have announced their Las Vegas roster although of course Grayson could still play post-trade:
https://www.nba.com/grizzlies/news/memphis-grizzlies-announce-mgm-resorts-nba-summer-league-2019-roster-190703

The Wizards also added to their roster thanks to the Sixers, announcing it officially after releasing a roster to the media:
https://www.nba.com/wizards/wizards-announce-2019-summer-league-roster

CDu
07-04-2019, 07:50 AM
Bringing up the rear. Now all NBA teams have announced a Summer League roster. (I didn't see a China roster reported in the news, but then, I never saw Croatia's roster reported either.)

Chicago Bulls (https://www.nba.com/bulls/news/bulls-announce-2019-mgm-resorts-nba-summer-league-roster): They drafted Coby White (UNC) and Daniel Gafford (Arkansas), and surrounded them with a bunch of players who are not from the ACC or making a career comeback. I'm struggling to find the angle here.

Phoenix Suns (https://www.nba.com/suns/press-release/phoenix-suns-announce-2019-summer-league-roster#gref): Even without ACC draft picks Cameron Johnson and Ty Jerome -- who were acquired by trade and presumably join the team in a few days -- this is a more interesting lineup. Jalen Lecque skipped college, wasn't drafted, and signed a 4-year deal (https://www.slamonline.com/nba/suns-to-sign-undrafted-guard-jalen-lecque-to-four-year-deal/) (2 years guaranteed) with Phoenix. Also listed are Final Four players Jared Harper (Auburn), Tariq Owens (Texas Tech), and Jack Salt (UVA). And let's not forget a couple of assistant coaches: Randy Ayers (formerly of Ohio State) and Steve Blake (formerly of Johnny Rockets (https://deadspin.com/americas-dumbest-student-athlete-nominee-steve-blake-5588289)).

Talking points! Take notes, Chicago.

Well, Mokoka was thought to be a potential second round pick this year and recently signed a two-way contract with the Bulls. Hutchinson was their other first-rounder last year. Harrison and Lemon were both Bulls players last season and are competing for the few bench slots remaining. Mulder is on the Bulls’ G-league affiliate. They would have had Carter too but he suffered an injury and is out of action the rest of the summer. Plus the two most recent draft picks. That is 7-8 guys on the roster who are Bulls players, which is usually about as much as should be expected.

From there, it is usually a “who can you find that is willing to be a backup in Summer League situation. That usually means local kids or guys who have the same agent as some of your players. Townes is a local product (Loyola) and Hall was an Illinois kid who was a big-time scorer at Montana State. My guess the other five are just guys who were available.

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
07-04-2019, 05:12 PM
Pretty sure Zion's summer league debut is on ESPN at 9:30 tonight.

tbyers11
07-04-2019, 05:21 PM
Pretty sure Zion's summer league debut is on ESPN at 9:30 tonight.

Tomorrow night. 9:30 Eastern vs RJ and the Knicks

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
07-04-2019, 05:56 PM
Tomorrow night. 9:30 Eastern vs RJ and the Knicks

Well, poop.

freshmanjs
07-04-2019, 06:02 PM
Saw Amile and Mo Bamba at the Wynn yesterday (and the rest of the Magic team). Looked like they were having a great time.

brevity
07-04-2019, 08:39 PM
Yep, no games this holiday. The undercards in Sacramento and Salt Lake City ended yesterday. The main event in Las Vegas starts tomorrow.

There are a lot of teams (32) and a lot of games (83). If you need a point of entry...

Former Duke Players

RJ Barrett, New York Knicks
Marques Bolden, Cleveland Cavaliers
Trevon Duval, Houston Rockets
Frank Jackson, New Orleans Pelicans
Amile Jefferson, Orlando Magic
Gary Trent Jr., Portland Trail Blazers
Antonio Vrankovic, Croatia
Zion Williamson, New Orleans Pelicans

Notes: As CDu stated above, Wendell Carter Jr. (Chicago Bulls) is out of action this summer. Cam Reddish (Atlanta Hawks) is recovering from injury. Neither Marvin Bagley nor Harry Giles (Sacramento Kings) were listed for the Las Vegas trip. Grayson Allen (Memphis Grizzlies) officially becomes part of the team on Saturday, and could be added then.

Former UVA Players (we have some UVA fans here, so why not?)

Kyle Guy, Sacramento Kings
Devon Hall, Oklahoma City Thunder
London Perrantes, New Orleans Pelicans
Jack Salt, Phoenix Suns

Notes: De'Andre Hunter (Atlanta Hawks) and Ty Jerome (Phoenix Suns) could be added once their trades are official.

Former UNC Players (if you're into hate-watching, or light mockery)

Tony Bradley, Utah Jazz
Isaiah Hicks, Charlotte Hornets
Nassir Little, Portland Trail Blazers
Luke Maye, Milwaukee Bucks
Kennedy Meeks, Charlotte Hornets
Theo Pinson, Brooklyn Nets
Coby White, Chicago Bulls
Kenny Williams, San Antonio Spurs

Note: Cameron Johnson (Phoenix Suns) could be added once that insane draft day trade is complete.

Other Former ACC Players (probably incomplete)

Deng Adel (Louisville), Houston Rockets
Zach Auguste (Notre Dame), Portland Trail Blazers
Dwayne Bacon (FSU), Charlotte Hornets
Tyus Battle (Syracuse), Minnesota Timberwolves
Jaron Blossomgame (Clemson), Cleveland Cavaliers
Ky Bowman (Boston College), Golden State Warriors
Oshae Brissett (Syracuse), Los Angeles Clippers
Bruce Brown (Miami), Detroit Pistons
Rion Brown (Miami), Denver Nuggets
Phil Cofer (FSU), Atlanta Hawks
Bonzie Colson (Notre Dame), Milwaukee Bucks
Torin Dorn (NC State), Charlotte Hornets
Matt Farrell (Notre Dame), Milwaukee Bucks
Donte Grantham (Clemson), Oklahoma City Thunder
Jay Henderson (Louisville), Indiana Pacers
Dewan Hernandez (Miami), Toronto Raptors
Ahmed Hill (Virginia Tech), Brooklyn Nets
Jaylen Hoard (Wake Forest), Portland Trail Blazers
Jaylen Johnson (Louisville), Indiana Pacers
Mfiondu Kabengele (FSU), Los Angeles Clippers
Christ Koumadje (FSU), Philadelphia 76ers
VJ King (Louisville), New York Knicks
Anthony Lawrence (Miami), Cleveland Cavaliers
Terance Mann (FSU), Los Angeles Clippers
Codi Miller-McIntyre (Wake Forest), Los Angeles Lakers
Doral Moore (Wake Forest), Memphis Grizzlies
Josh Okogie (Georgia Tech), Minnesota Timberwolves
Davon Reed (Miami), Golden State Warriors
Marcquise Reed (Clemson), Detroit Pistons
Malachi Richardson (Syracuse), Golden State Warriors
Jerome Robinson (Boston College), Los Angeles Clippers
Elijah Thomas (Clemson), Charlotte Hornets
Lonnie Walker IV (Miami), San Antonio Spurs
Andrew White (Syracuse), New York Knicks

Notes: Looking forward to adding Nickeil Alexander-Walker (Virginia Tech, New Orleans Pelicans).

Other 2019 NBA Draft Picks

Ignas Brazdeikis (Michigan), New York Knicks
Nicolas Claxton (Georgia), Brooklyn Nets
Daniel Gafford (Arkansas), Chicago Bulls
Rui Hachimura (Gonzaga), Washington Wizards
Jaylen Hands (UCLA), Brooklyn Nets
Tyler Herro (Kentucky), Miami Heat
Justin James (Wyoming), Sacramento Kings
Keldon Johnson (Kentucky), San Antonio Spurs
Romeo Langford (Indiana), Boston Celtics
Cody Martin (Nevada), Charlotte Hornets
Jaylen Nowell (Washington), Minnesota Timberwolves
Eric Paschall (Villanova), Golden State Warriors
Jordan Poole (Michigan), Golden State Warriors
Kevin Porter Jr. (USC), Cleveland Cavaliers
Admiral Schofield (Tennessee), Washington Wizards
Marial Shayok (Iowa State), Philadelphia 76ers
PJ Washington (Kentucky), Charlotte Hornets
Tremont Waters (LSU), Boston Celtics
Grant Williams (Tennessee), Boston Celtics
Dylan Windler (Belmont), Cleveland Cavaliers

Notes: Waiting on trades for first-rounders Jarrett Culver (Texas Tech, Minnesota Timberwolves); Jaxson Hayes (Texas, New Orleans Pelicans); Matisse Thybulle (Washington, Philadelphia 76ers); Brandon Clarke (Gonzaga, Memphis Grizzlies); Darius Bazley (No college, Oklahoma City Thunder).

Other Former NCAA Standouts (somewhat subjective)

Trevon Bluiett (Xavier), New Orleans Pelicans
Phil Booth (Villanova), Cleveland Cavaliers
Jordan Caroline (Nevada), Los Angeles Lakers
Semaj Christon (Xavier), Sacramento Kings
Aubrey Dawkins (UCF), New Orleans Pelicans
Carsen Edwards (Purdue), Boston Celtics
Tacko Fall (UCF), Boston Celtics
Wenyen Gabriel (Kentucky), Sacramento Kings
Jared Harper (Auburn), Phoenix Suns
Louis King (Oregon), Detroit Pistons
Jock Landale (St. Mary's), Milwaukee Bucks
Jairus Lyles (UMBC), Utah Jazz
JP Macura (Xavier), Charlotte Hornets
Fletcher Magee (Wofford), Milwaukee Bucks
Frank Mason III (Kansas), Sacramento Kings
Matt McQuaid (Michigan State), Detroit Pistons
Matt Mooney (Texas Tech), Atlanta Hawks
Zach Norvell Jr. (Gonzaga), Los Angeles Lakers
Tariq Owens (Texas Tech), Phoenix Suns
Shamorie Ponds (St. John's), Houston Rockets
Caleb Swanigan (Purdue), Sacramento Kings
Reid Travis (Kentucky), Atlanta Hawks
Dean Wade (Kansas State), Cleveland Cavaliers
Nick Ward (Michigan State), Atlanta Hawks
Robert Williams (Texas A&M), Boston Celtics

At a certain point I had to stop. I left off international players and quite a few NBA Draft second-rounders.

awhom111
07-04-2019, 11:38 PM
Friday's Schedule (times ET):
Detroit vs Croatia (Antonio), 3:00pm NBATV
Sixers vs Bucks, 3:30pm ESPN2
Timberwolves vs Cavaliers (Marques?), 5:00pm NBATV
Heat vs China, 5:30pm ESPNU
Mavericks vs Nets, 7:00pm NBATV
Lakers vs Bulls, 7:30pm ESPN
Hornets vs Warriors, 9:00pm NBATV
Knicks (R.J.) vs Pelicans (Zion, Frank), 9:30pm ESPN
Magic (Amile) vs Spurs, 11:00pm NBATV
Suns vs Nuggets, 11:30pm ESPN

Troublemaker
07-05-2019, 09:50 AM
The Knicks are the favorites to win the Las Vegas Summer league, according to an article on ESPN Chalk (https://www.espn.com/chalk/story/_/id/27124054/knicks-favored-win-vegas-summer-league-title). They're 10-1; as you might imagine, the odds are pretty flat overall with no team really standing out. I suppose the Knicks are the favorites because after a disastrous free agency period, they might care about Summer League more than other teams; gotta get the fans to buy into RJ and the rest of the young squad. Full list of odds at Vegas Insider here (http://www.vegasinsider.com/nba/story.cfm/story/1974812).

Truth&Justise
07-05-2019, 10:35 AM
The Knicks are the favorites to win the Las Vegas Summer league, according to an article on ESPN Chalk (https://www.espn.com/chalk/story/_/id/27124054/knicks-favored-win-vegas-summer-league-title). They're 10-1; as you might imagine, the odds are pretty flat overall with no team really standing out. I suppose the Knicks are the favorites because after a disastrous free agency period, they might care about Summer League more than other teams; gotta get the fans to buy into RJ and the rest of the young squad. Full list of odds at Vegas Insider here (http://www.vegasinsider.com/nba/story.cfm/story/1974812).

Saw that headline--"Knicks favored to win Vegas Summer League Title"--and thought it was self-parody. I don't know if the Knicks actually care about winning a nonexistent "title" in summer league, but it would be a bit sad for a once-proud franchise. And who actually puts out odds on these games??

brevity
07-05-2019, 10:54 AM
And who actually puts out odds on these games??

Odds will be given where there is money to be made.

Looking at the Vegas Insider (http://www.vegasinsider.com/nba/story.cfm/story/1974812) list, I can see some appealing underdogs. Miami is 40/1 and they just went 3-0 in Sacramento. Team China is 100/1 and they combined two national rosters that played in separate tournaments last year. Then you have this seemingly random hierarchy where both Los Angeles teams are considered worse than Phoenix, last year's champ (Portland) has the same odds as Charlotte, and the upstart, high-price ticket Pelicans are still between second and third tier. This list looks deliberately obtuse, and designed to attract action.

Maybe don't bet at all, but certainly don't bet on Denver. Michael Porter Jr. suffered a left knee strain (https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/27120384/nuggets-porter-jr-suffers-knee-injury-practice) yesterday and will miss Summer League.

Troublemaker
07-05-2019, 11:09 AM
Saw that headline--"Knicks favored to win Vegas Summer League Title"--and thought it was self-parody. I don't know if the Knicks actually care about winning a nonexistent "title" in summer league, but it would be a bit sad for a once-proud franchise.

They do play a tournament with a winner. Here is last year's bracket (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_NBA_Summer_League#Bracket), and here is a list of previous winners (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NBA_Summer_League#Champions).


And who actually puts out odds on these games??


Odds will be given where there is money to be made.

Indeed. Especially on a futures market where the house edge is at least 30%. As long as the books think they hold an edge, they'll put odds out there.

I've also seen point spreads at most of the major books. The Knicks are slight favorites tonight, for example. Of course, you have to pay a 15% or 20% vig to bet Summer League instead of the usual 10% when betting point spreads on regular games.

Truth&Justise
07-05-2019, 11:36 AM
They do play a tournament with a winner. Here is last year's bracket (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_NBA_Summer_League#Bracket), and here is a list of previous winners (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NBA_Summer_League#Champions).

Winning that tournament seems to have no relation to winning actual NBA games. I get that summer league players would rather win than lose, but I can't fathom a well-run NBA franchise actually caring about whether they win or lose a particular summer league game, let alone the tournament. So while there is a winner of the tournament, it's a "title" with no meaning.

JasonEvans
07-05-2019, 11:38 AM
Most of these summer league teams are full of rookies and maybe a few G Leaguers. The Knicks roster includes Kevin Knox, Mitchell Robinson, and Alonzo Trier all three of whom were very promising NBA rookies last season who showed they can be rotation players (if not starters) in the league. It also includes RJ Barrett, arguably the most NBA ready prospect in the Draft, and Kadeem Allen, who also looked good in his 20 games or so in the NBA last season.

Put another way, the Knicks would seem to be trotting out a summer league team of legit NBA players to play against other teams of NBA wannabes. If the Knicks don't in the summer league, it will likely be because all these NBA players chose to stop playing summer league because they were dominating it too much (not impossible, happens all the time).

-Jason "if Zion or RJ or anyone is showing themselves to be much better than everyone else in summer league... they will likely shut it down. That is just how NBA-SL works" Evans

Troublemaker
07-05-2019, 11:48 AM
Winning that tournament seems to have no relation to winning actual NBA games. I get that summer league players would rather win than lose, but I can't fathom a well-run NBA franchise actually caring about whether they win or lose a particular summer league game, let alone the tournament. So while there is a winner of the tournament, it's a "title" with no meaning.

I think we're largely in agreement. It's right in my original post -- I said the Knicks maybe were the favorites because they might be the only team that cares. But then you called the title non-existent, which I had to correct. It exists but probably isn't that important.

Now, I do think NBA teams want their players to perform well, which of course has an overlap with winning games.

BD80
07-05-2019, 11:57 AM
The Knicks are the favorites to win the Las Vegas Summer league, according to an article on ESPN Chalk (https://www.espn.com/chalk/story/_/id/27124054/knicks-favored-win-vegas-summer-league-title). They're 10-1; as you might imagine, the odds are pretty flat overall with no team really standing out. I suppose the Knicks are the favorites because after a disastrous free agency period, they might care about Summer League more than other teams; gotta get the fans to buy into RJ and the rest of the young squad. Full list of odds at Vegas Insider here (http://www.vegasinsider.com/nba/story.cfm/story/1974812).

If you are betting on NBA SL, you just might have a gambling problem.


...
I've also seen point spreads at most of the major books. The Knicks are slight favorites tonight, for example. Of course, you have to pay a 15% or 20% vig to bet Summer League instead of the usual 10% when betting point spreads on regular games.

Is the extra vig to compensate for the inherent variability of summer league games, or the greater likelihood that a player is willing to risk his "career" to throw a game?

Billy Dat
07-05-2019, 11:57 AM
The Knicks are the favorites to win the Las Vegas Summer league, according to an article on ESPN Chalk (https://www.espn.com/chalk/story/_/id/27124054/knicks-favored-win-vegas-summer-league-title). They're 10-1; as you might imagine, the odds are pretty flat overall with no team really standing out. I suppose the Knicks are the favorites because after a disastrous free agency period, they might care about Summer League more than other teams; gotta get the fans to buy into RJ and the rest of the young squad. Full list of odds at Vegas Insider here (http://www.vegasinsider.com/nba/story.cfm/story/1974812).

I think the Knicks are the favorite because they are actually sending a few rotation guys to the event...Kevin Knox, Mitchell Robinson and Alonzo Trier. There can't be many teams actually sending 3 guys who averaged a combined 70 minutes per game last season.

sagegrouse
07-05-2019, 12:52 PM
Winning that tournament seems to have no relation to winning actual NBA games. I get that summer league players would rather win than lose, but I can't fathom a well-run NBA franchise actually caring about whether they win or lose a particular summer league game, let alone the tournament. So while there is a winner of the tournament, it's a "title" with no meaning.


I think we're largely in agreement. It's right in my original post -- I said the Knicks maybe were the favorites because they might be the only team that cares. But then you called the title non-existent, which I had to correct. It exists but probably isn't that important.

Now, I do think NBA teams want their players to perform well, which of course has an overlap with winning games.

Hey, the players on the floor play hard, the coaches on the bench are trying to win; therefore, it's a competition. The championship, nevertheless, is pretty meaningless, except for the satisfaction of the winning participants.

subzero02
07-05-2019, 02:05 PM
Vrankovic with the first point of NBA summer league in Vegas

brevity
07-05-2019, 02:15 PM
Vrankovic with the first point of NBA summer league in Vegas

...And dozens of dollars were lost on Vegas prop bets.

jimsumner
07-05-2019, 02:26 PM
How long before we get some why-didn't-Krzyzewski-play-Vrankovic-more-threads?

subzero02
07-05-2019, 02:34 PM
ugh... Mykhailiuk. I hope Grayson has the chance to dunk on him this summer.

hallcity
07-05-2019, 02:57 PM
Talk about a Zion effect!!!

Ben Golliver
@BenGolliver
·
29m
Riding Zion Williamson excitement, Las Vegas Summer League has sold out 17,500 seats for Friday's Pelicans vs. Knicks.
- General admission day passes are being scalped for $80.
- Lower bowl tickets re-selling for $400+.
- 1,000 media credentials have been issued, a new record.

subzero02
07-05-2019, 03:01 PM
How long before we get some why-didn't-Krzyzewski-play-Vrankovic-more-threads?

no need for a separate thread. Croatia was +222 for this game. Vrankovic's 3 first half points represent 75% of Croatia's 4 point halftime lead.


They are heavily promoting Zion's debut. NBATV just stated that Lebron and Anthony Davis will be courtside for the game; there's no word on where Kawhi will be seated.

brevity
07-05-2019, 03:17 PM
Talk about a Zion effect!!!

A different Zion effect is going on right now. ESPNU is showing the recent ACC semifinal between Duke and UNC. I don't generally rewatch games when live games are available, but I'm not getting absorbed by Pistons-Croatia or Sixers-Bucks just yet. It's tempting.

They'll also show the recent Duke-FSU game later tonight, at the same time (9:30 ET) as Pelicans-Knicks. Flipping back and forth is not the worst way to spend commercial breaks.

rsvman
07-05-2019, 03:27 PM
Plenty of truly great NBA players did not lead their college teams anywhere close to NCAA titles. Shaquille O'Neal, Kevin Durant, Tim Duncan, James Harden, Chris Paul, Blake Griffin, Charles Barkley and on and on and on. Ralph Sampson never made a title game in four seasons. Houston had Clyde Drexler and Hakeem Olajuwon on the same team and couldn't win a title.

Meanwhile, the list of Final Four MOPs includes such notables as Donald Williams, Miles Simon, Ryan Arcidiacono, Jeff Sheppard, Joel Berry, Anderson Hunt and Corey Brewer, among others.

Zion Williamson may not live up to the hype. The hype is pretty out of control. But I do not think an excess of humility is going to hold him back.
If memory serves, though, Sampson and his team did make the final four, in 1983, if I recall correctly.

dball
07-05-2019, 03:49 PM
If memory serves, though, Sampson and his team did make the final four, in 1983, if I recall correctly.

1981, UVA lost to ...ugh...uncch in the semis. Cavs made Final Four again in 1984, the year after big Ralph graduated.

jacone21
07-05-2019, 05:31 PM
Talk about a Zion effect!!!

Ben Golliver
@BenGolliver
·
29m
Riding Zion Williamson excitement, Las Vegas Summer League has sold out 17,500 seats for Friday's Pelicans vs. Knicks.
- General admission day passes are being scalped for $80.
- Lower bowl tickets re-selling for $400+.
- 1,000 media credentials have been issued, a new record.

I was thinking Zion might not play much this summer. Will the hype influence the Pel's willingness to play him more minutes?

Tazman10
07-05-2019, 06:00 PM
You can give all the names you want but none of them played with the #1 and #2 recruits on the same college team. Thus the expectations were there.

The fact is, no one can tell how any draft pick will work out so be cautious with what one expects, no matter how high they were picked in the draft. I think the issue is no one spends enough time with the player to find out what they might become. I still think there are so many head cases out there that a guy looks very good on paper but will have problems in the actual game.

subzero02
07-05-2019, 08:48 PM
It looks like Zion and RJ's game won't start until well after 10pm but it's well worth the wait.

CoachJ10
07-05-2019, 08:52 PM
Is Zion weighing these days?

subzero02
07-05-2019, 08:56 PM
Is Zion weighing these days?

I'm not quite sure... he looks to have the same body he did against MSU. He's putting on a show in warmups right now.

brevity
07-05-2019, 09:01 PM
Duke taking over UNLV's home arena. Never thought I'd see the day.

3 Duke starters in this game.

Furniture
07-05-2019, 09:01 PM
Zion wearing DUKE shoes!!!

subzero02
07-05-2019, 09:07 PM
Zion has started the game with a jumpshooter's mentality and it hasn't gone well. He looks to be a little rusty.

dukelifer
07-05-2019, 09:10 PM
Zion has started the game with a jumpshooter's mentality and it hasn't gone well. He looks to be a little rusty.

He looks out of shape and a bit nervous. He will get there but tonight may be a bit humbling.

JetpackJesus
07-05-2019, 09:11 PM
Is Zion weighing these days?

Jay Williams said yesterday that he thinks Zion weighs about 300lbs right now (I don't know what his basis for that number is), but he expects him to drop weight now that all the offseason stuff is over.

brevity
07-05-2019, 09:14 PM
Too funny. This is like an old-fashioned boxing crowd.

Furniture
07-05-2019, 09:15 PM
The Knox steal.....Priceless!!

subzero02
07-05-2019, 09:15 PM
The crowd reaction to Zion reminds me of how foreign crowds react when our NBA stars come to visit... 3 monster dunks. He's going to shoot a lot of free throws this year.

duke4ever19
07-05-2019, 09:21 PM
He looks out of shape and a bit nervous. He will get there but tonight may be a bit humbling.

He's not in peak condition, but dang he's doing Zion stuff out there. I'm impressed, especially considering the circumstances.

BigZ
07-05-2019, 09:22 PM
Zion wearing DUKE shoes!!!

He is coming back !!

brevity
07-05-2019, 09:24 PM
NBA Twitter, as it happens:

RJ's first shot. (https://twitter.com/NBA/status/1147329488897921025)

Zion's first dunk. (https://twitter.com/NBA/status/1147327669308207104)
Zion's second dunk. (https://twitter.com/NBA/status/1147328386626404353)
Zion's polite steal and third dunk. (https://twitter.com/NBA/status/1147329888338231296)
Zion's pregame warmup dunk (https://twitter.com/NBA/status/1147324062764421120), for good measure.

YmoBeThere
07-05-2019, 09:32 PM
He needs a little conditioning and some tailoring to that uniform.

Steven43
07-05-2019, 09:32 PM
The Knox steal...Priceless!!

Zion tossed him aside like an annoying high-schooler. An 18-year-old high school kid, of course. Got to be extra careful what you write these days.

dukelifer
07-05-2019, 09:50 PM
He's not in peak condition, but dang he's doing Zion stuff out there. I'm impressed, especially considering the circumstances.

He is dunking. Have not seen the drive yet. The ex-Dukie with the best night so far - Frank Jackson.

brevity
07-05-2019, 09:51 PM
Halftime: Frank Jackson has 14, Zion Williamson has 10, RJ Barrett has 8.

jacone21
07-05-2019, 09:59 PM
Frank is a baller. And Zion is done for the night.

cbarry
07-05-2019, 10:05 PM
Too early for another Zion knee vigil! Hope he’s ok!! Stinks that Zion has to miss the second half of the game.
Bummer.
<turns off TV>

brevity
07-05-2019, 10:09 PM
Cassidy Hubbarth (https://twitter.com/CassidyHubbarth/status/1147339483064545281) @CassidyHubbarth

Zion Williamson took knee to knee hit in first half. Will not return with left knee injury. It's not expected to be serious but the Pelicans are taking a cautious approach with their #1 pick during this summer league.

8:00 PM - 5 Jul 2019

fraggler
07-05-2019, 10:13 PM
Frank is balling. Sad we didn't get to see more of him at Duke. I feel bad for the people who paid $400 for a SUMMER LEAGUE game and only got like 9 min of Zion. RJ looks like a work in progress.

duke4ever19
07-05-2019, 10:15 PM
He is dunking. Have not seen the drive yet. The ex-Dukie with the best night so far - Frank Jackson.

lol Really? Twitter is buzzing after Zion violently wrestled the ball from Knox and dunked it. On another play, he left another Knick crumpled on the baseline. Even on the plays he's getting fouled, he is dishing it out every bit as much as he is getting. Like the announcers said, considering circumstances (not in peak condition, months away from actual games) he did pretty well out there.

jacone21
07-05-2019, 10:25 PM
Well that's something I've never seen during a basketball game.

Earthquake.

Owen Meany
07-05-2019, 10:30 PM
Trojan Langdon sighting. Calm reaction to the tremors.

brevity
07-05-2019, 10:36 PM
Kendrick Perkins (https://twitter.com/CassidyHubbarth/status/1147345412552122369) @KendrickPerkins

That wasn’t an earthquake! That was Frank Jackson in the Building

8:29 PM - 5 Jul 2019

Furniture
07-05-2019, 10:48 PM
The Knox steal...Priceless!!

https://mobile.twitter.com/BlueDevils/status/1147329143283048448

brevity
07-05-2019, 11:13 PM
Not the highlight video I planned to post:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jw4wQgCakOg

proelitedota
07-06-2019, 12:32 AM
Zion meeting RJ results in earthquake. As foretold.

awhom111
07-06-2019, 12:45 AM
The Spurs announced their Las Vegas roster:
https://www.nba.com/spurs/news/spurs-announce-2019-las-vegas-summer-league-roster

The Lakers also updated their roster after Sacramento.

It does not appear that the league has decided what to do with the schedule yet so here is the original one for Saturday and we'll figure out what actually happens later (times ET):
Thunder vs Jazz, 3:00pm NBATV
Trailblazers (Gary) vs Pistons, 3:30pm ESPNU
Hawks vs Bucks, 5:00pm NBATV
Celtics vs Sixers, 5:30pm ESPN
Grizzlies vs Pacers, 7:00pm NBATV
Clippers vs Lakers, 7:30pm ESPNU
Mavericks vs Rockets, 9:00pm NBATV
Pelicans (Zion?) vs Wizards, 10:00pm ESPN
China vs Kings, 11:00pm NBATV

Antonio's final line was 3 points in 10 minutes as Croatia lost to the Pistons 96-80:
https://www.nba.com/games/20190705/DETCRO#/boxscore

It was an exciting game, but I was only paying attention to fouls as Norvel Pelle had 9 and Christ Koumadje had 7 for the Sixers in their 107-106 win over the Bucks:
https://www.nba.com/games/20190705/PHIMIL#/boxscore

Marques was back and had 2 points in 15 minutes as the Cavaliers lost to the Timberwolves 85-75:
https://www.nba.com/games/20190705/MINCLE#/boxscore

China lost to the Heat 103-62 as some of their stars did not play, but are on their roster:
https://www.nba.com/games/20190705/MIACHN#/boxscore

A good game lacked fouls as the Mavericks beat the Nets 96-92:
https://www.nba.com/games/20190705/DALBKN#/boxscore

Nick Perkins and Devontae Cacok each had 7 fouls in the Lakers' 96-76 loss to the Bulls:
https://www.nba.com/games/20190705/LALCHI#/boxscore

The Hornets beat the Warriors 93-85 in the last game that was actually completed:
https://www.nba.com/games/20190705/CHAGSW#/boxscore

The line as it stands for R.J. is 10 points in 24 minutes while Zion had 9 points in 11 minutes and Frank had 30 points in 23 minutes:
https://www.nba.com/games/20190705/NYKNOP#/boxscore

The other game made it through 3 quarters before the earthquake stoppage, although there was less hanging stuff there and the announcers did not notice much and Amile had 8 points in 15 minutes:
https://www.nba.com/games/20190705/ORLSAS#/boxscore

brevity
07-06-2019, 01:51 AM
The line as it stands for R.J. is 10 points in 24 minutes while Zion had 9 points in 11 minutes and Frank had 30 points in 23 minutes:
https://www.nba.com/games/20190705/NYKNOP#/boxscore

No Frank Jackson highlight reel yet, but there is one for Zion (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uqyVPfR8MTs) and one for RJ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yKYT3N6JDvQ).


It was an exciting game, but I was only paying attention to fouls as Norvel Pelle had 9 and Christ Koumadje had 7 for the Sixers in their 107-106 win over the Bucks:
https://www.nba.com/games/20190705/PHIMIL#/boxscore

Not to be outdone, here is Luke Maye's highlight reel for his Vegas debut with the Milwaukee Bucks:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iIIuR-HjFho

CameronBornAndBred
07-06-2019, 08:12 AM
I feel bad for the people who paid $400 for a SUMMER LEAGUE game and only got like 9 min of Zion. RJ looks like a work in progress.

The folks who paid thousands to watch him for 20 seconds in the Duke-Carolina game have a few beers to hold.

Wahoo2000
07-06-2019, 11:09 AM
Bringing up the rear. Now all NBA teams have announced a Summer League roster. (I didn't see a China roster reported in the news, but then, I never saw Croatia's roster reported either.)

Chicago Bulls (https://www.nba.com/bulls/news/bulls-announce-2019-mgm-resorts-nba-summer-league-roster): They drafted Coby White (UNC) and Daniel Gafford (Arkansas), and surrounded them with a bunch of players who are not from the ACC or making a career comeback. I'm struggling to find the angle here.

Phoenix Suns (https://www.nba.com/suns/press-release/phoenix-suns-announce-2019-summer-league-roster#gref): Even without ACC draft picks Cameron Johnson and Ty Jerome -- who were acquired by trade and presumably join the team in a few days -- this is a more interesting lineup. Jalen Lecque skipped college, wasn't drafted, and signed a 4-year deal (https://www.slamonline.com/nba/suns-to-sign-undrafted-guard-jalen-lecque-to-four-year-deal/) (2 years guaranteed) with Phoenix. Also listed are Final Four players Jared Harper (Auburn), Tariq Owens (Texas Tech), and Jack Salt (UVA). And let's not forget a couple of assistant coaches: Randy Ayers (formerly of Ohio State) and Steve Blake (formerly of Johnny Rockets (https://deadspin.com/americas-dumbest-student-athlete-nominee-steve-blake-5588289)).

Talking points! Take notes, Chicago.

Ok, let me start this by saying I'm a UVA fan since birth. Through and through, dyed-in-the-wool, orange and blue glassed fanboy. Still, I have NO idea why an NBA franchise would invest a summer league roster spot on Salt. To be fair, the guy was an absolutely AMAZING servant of the program in college, worked as hard as any player we've had, and was as unselfish in regards to his role as I would have ever imagined any player could be. He went from regular starter for multiple seasons to suddenly barely playing AT ALL in his final tournament. We won a title, but he barely contributed especially in the last couple of games. He was a great screen-setter and leader, but can barely jump over a phone book, and might be the worst finisher near the rim of any big strong 6'10+ guy I've ever seen. There is no way in the world that he ends up as an NBA player. Maybe it's a signal that Bennett and our program are getting to that level where our guys are just going to get opportunities that similar players from lower-level programs never would. I guess that's a good thing. Still, as much as I *love* Salt, I feel bad for whatever player he took a roster spot from. Good experience for him too I guess, maybe he'll get some good coaching/feedback that will help him secure a better spot in Europe (or Australia/D league/wherever if he chooses to go that route).

sagegrouse
07-06-2019, 11:15 AM
Ok, let me start this by saying I'm a UVA fan since birth. Through and through, dyed-in-the-wool, orange and blue glassed fanboy. Still, I have NO idea why an NBA franchise would invest a summer league roster spot on Salt. To be fair, the guy was an absolutely AMAZING servant of the program in college, worked as hard as any player we've had, and was as unselfish in regards to his role as I would have ever imagined any player could be. He went from regular starter for multiple seasons to suddenly barely playing AT ALL in his final tournament. We won a title, but he barely contributed especially in the last couple of games. He was a great screen-setter and leader, but can barely jump over a phone book, and might be the worst finisher near the rim of any big strong 6'10+ guy I've ever seen. There is no way in the world that he ends up as an NBA player. Maybe it's a signal that Bennett and our program are getting to that level where our guys are just going to get opportunities that similar players from lower-level programs never would. I guess that's a good thing. Still, as much as I *love* Salt, I feel bad for whatever player he took a roster spot from. Good experience for him too I guess, maybe he'll get some good coaching/feedback that will help him secure a better spot in Europe (or Australia/D league/wherever if he chooses to go that route).

Despite what's often said these days, height and bulk may still count for something. Teams hope a really big guy will gain coordination and skills as he grows older. Heck, Marshall Plumlee got a contract and minutes in the NBA.

JasonEvans
07-06-2019, 11:23 AM
I have NO idea why an NBA franchise would invest a summer league roster spot on Salt... as much as I *love* Salt, I feel bad for whatever player he took a roster spot from.

Little known fact... NBA Summer League players DO NOT GET PAID!! There is no salary for appearing in the summer league. The players are given rooms to live in and a $1500 stipend to pay for their meals. That is it. Nothing else. A summer league roster spot is not that coveted of a thing.

BD80
07-06-2019, 11:30 AM
Little known fact... NBA Summer League players DO NOT GET PAID!! There is no salary for appearing in the summer league. The players are given rooms to live in and a $1500 stipend to pay for their meals. That is it. Nothing else. A summer league roster spot is not that coveted of a thing.

But all the players yesterday got a pass into the building to witness the Dawn of ZION!

clinresga
07-06-2019, 12:05 PM
Ok, let me start this by saying I'm a UVA fan since birth. Through and through, dyed-in-the-wool, orange and blue glassed fanboy. Still, I have NO idea why an NBA franchise would invest a summer league roster spot on Salt.
Why?
This: Salt assaults backboard shooting free throw (https://streamable.com/djlaz)
I will root for him to make a team, purely on the chance I could see him do this again. OMG, I'm still laughing.

sagegrouse
07-06-2019, 12:19 PM
But all the players yesterday got a pass into the building to witness the Dawn of ZION!

Let me see if I have this straight. Zion played his first NBA game of any kind. He was injured slightly on a knee-to-knee collision. Shortly thereafter, the strongest earthquake in 20 years hit the region and halted play.

Perhaps Zeus was not pleased? I am not sure the NBA and its arenas have enough insurance to cover the physical destruction from a serious injury to Zion.

plimnko
07-06-2019, 03:25 PM
Zion held out for the rest of the summer league

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
07-06-2019, 03:42 PM
Zion held out for the rest of the summer league

Hype for opening day is going to be amazeballs.

CDu
07-06-2019, 04:02 PM
Ok, let me start this by saying I'm a UVA fan since birth. Through and through, dyed-in-the-wool, orange and blue glassed fanboy. Still, I have NO idea why an NBA franchise would invest a summer league roster spot on Salt. To be fair, the guy was an absolutely AMAZING servant of the program in college, worked as hard as any player we've had, and was as unselfish in regards to his role as I would have ever imagined any player could be. He went from regular starter for multiple seasons to suddenly barely playing AT ALL in his final tournament. We won a title, but he barely contributed especially in the last couple of games. He was a great screen-setter and leader, but can barely jump over a phone book, and might be the worst finisher near the rim of any big strong 6'10+ guy I've ever seen. There is no way in the world that he ends up as an NBA player. Maybe it's a signal that Bennett and our program are getting to that level where our guys are just going to get opportunities that similar players from lower-level programs never would. I guess that's a good thing. Still, as much as I *love* Salt, I feel bad for whatever player he took a roster spot from. Good experience for him too I guess, maybe he'll get some good coaching/feedback that will help him secure a better spot in Europe (or Australia/D league/wherever if he chooses to go that route).

Summer League teams are an eclectic mix of players. From draft picks, to fringe roster guys, to vets trying to latch on again. But the roster sizes exceed the available PT. So teams usually fill in the ends of rosters with whomever is willing to risk energy in practice while barely seeing the court in games. Salt is far from the worst player on a Summer League roster.

dukelifer
07-06-2019, 04:58 PM
Hype for opening day is going to be amazeballs.

Zion’s college debut in the McDonald’s game ended prematurely with and injury and now this.

MartyClark
07-06-2019, 07:05 PM
Zion’s college debut in the McDonald’s game ended prematurely with and injury and now this.
I watched a bit of the Portland summer league game today. At least when I was watching, Gary Trent Jr. wasn't doing much.

I sure would have liked him on last years Duke team.

brevity
07-07-2019, 12:00 AM
No Frank Jackson highlight reel yet, but there is one for Zion (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uqyVPfR8MTs) and one for RJ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yKYT3N6JDvQ).

Frank Jackson didn't play Saturday, but here are highlights of his 30-point game on Friday:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yU_04n0Jc1w

ETA: Here is a shorter compilation (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vdTUsSJiQ9Q) of Frank Jackson highlights from a different source.

awhom111
07-07-2019, 12:56 AM
Sunday's Schedule (times ET):
Spurs vs Hornets, 3:30pm ESPN2
Nets vs Croatia (Antonio), 4:00pm NBATV
Timberwolves vs Hawks, 5:30pm ESPN2
Nuggets vs Magic (Amile), 6:00pm NBATV
Bulls vs Cavaliers, 7:30pm ESPN
Jazz vs Heat, 8:00pm NBATV
Knicks (R.J.) vs Suns, 9:30pm ESPN
Rockets (Trevon) vs Trailblazers (Gary), 10:00pm NBATV
Grizzlies (Grayson?) vs. Clippers, 11:30pm ESPN2

The Jazz beat the Thunder 78-66 in the first post-earthquake game:
https://www.nba.com/games/20190706/OKCUTA#/boxscore

Gary had 10 points in 23 minutes as the Trailblazers lost to the Pistons 93-73:
https://www.nba.com/games/20190706/PORDET#/boxscore

Sterling Brown picked up 7 fouls as the Bucks beat the Hawks 89-83:
https://www.nba.com/games/20190706/ATLMIL#/boxscore

The Celtics beat the Sixers 96-82:
https://www.nba.com/games/20190706/BOSPHI#/boxscore

No Grayson yet as the Grizzlies beat the Pacers 101-75:
https://www.nba.com/games/20190706/MEMIND#/boxscore

The Clippers won another Battle of LA over the Lakers 93-87:
https://www.nba.com/games/20190706/LACLAL#/boxscore

6 points in 10 minutes for Trevon Duval as the Rockets lost to the Mavericks 113-81:
https://www.nba.com/games/20190706/DALHOU#/boxscore

The Wizards beat the Duke-less Pelicans 84-79:
https://www.nba.com/games/20190706/NOPWAS#/boxscore

Guo Ailun made up for lost time with 8 fouls in China's 94-77 loss to the Kings:
https://www.nba.com/games/20190706/CHNSAC#/boxscore

The Warriors beat the Raptors 80-71, which definitely still doesn't make me feel any better about the last time they played:
https://www.nba.com/games/20190707/TORGSW#/boxscore

brevity
07-07-2019, 05:21 PM
So the Wolves are playing the Hawks. De'Andre Hunter and Bruno Fernando are finally debuting (the Hawks completed their draft day trade (https://twitter.com/PelicansPR/status/1147817409757241345) with the Pelicans), but Jarrett Culver is not listed for the Wolves.

Also not playing today for the Wolves: Canyon Barry. That's too bad; he could do this again:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=40BXLu5fxes

brevity
07-07-2019, 08:41 PM
Some trade updates, as they affect Summer League. (As I mentioned above, De'Andre Hunter and Bruno Fernando played for the Atlanta Hawks today.)

Memphis Grizzlies (https://twitter.com/GrizzliesPR/status/1147955487696138240): Grayson Allen and Brandon Clarke have been added to the Summer League roster. It's not confirmed, but Grayson should be playing tonight.

Minnesota Timberwolves (https://www.nba.com/timberwolves/news/timberwolves-acquire-draft-rights-jarrett-culver-completion-draft-night-trade): Jarrett Culver is officially on the team, and while they haven't revised their roster or explicitly said he'll play, he was listed as out today (https://twitter.com/Twolves_PR/status/1147973952167301120) due to rest. I imagine he'll play tomorrow.

New Orleans Pelicans (https://www.nola.com/sports/pelicans/article_7a94a79e-a119-11e9-8be7-5bd12c5d19b3.html?utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter&utm_campaign=user-share): The main attraction is on ice for the rest of Summer League, but the other three draft picks -- Jaxson Hayes, Nickeil Alexander-Walker, and Didi Louzada -- will play Monday.

Phoenix Suns (https://www.nba.com/suns/press-release/suns-sign-johnson-jerome-lecque): Cameron Johnson and Ty Jerome are now part of the team, but are being held out of Summer League altogether. "They have not had the adequate opportunities to practice and train with our team," said GM James Jones. I should point out that the Suns are about to play their first Summer League game tonight (Friday's was cancelled). I don't see how easing them in over the next several days wouldn't work, but whatever. It's the Suns.

awhom111
07-08-2019, 12:33 AM
Monday's Schedule (times ET):
Thunder vs Sixers, 3:00pm ESPNU
Kings vs Mavericks, 3:30pm NBATV
Pacers vs Pistons, 5:00pm ESPNU
Wizards vs Nets, 5:30pm NBATV
Spurs vs Raptors, 7:00pm ESPNU
Cavaliers (Marques) vs Celtics, 7:30pm NBATV
Bucks vs Timberwolves, 9:00pm ESPNU
Pelicans (Frank?) vs Bulls, 9:30pm NBATV
China vs Hornets, 11:00pm ESPNU
Warriors vs Lakers, 11:30pm NBATV

Not too much fouling as the Spurs beat the Hornets 106-96:
https://www.nba.com/games/20190707/SASCHA#/boxscore

Antonio had 12 points and 8 rebounds in 20 minutes in Croatia's 74-58 loss to the Nets:
https://www.nba.com/games/20190707/BKNCRO#/boxscore

No free throws for Canyon Barry as the Timberwolves beat the Hawks 90-66:
https://www.nba.com/games/20190707/MINATL#/boxscore

Amile had 13 points and 9 rebounds as the Magic lost to the Nuggets 84-79:
https://www.nba.com/games/20190707/DENORL#/boxscore

Marques had 8 points in 17 minutes as the Cavaliers beat the Bulls 82-75:
https://www.nba.com/games/20190707/CHICLE#/boxscore

Yante Maten finally helped us get fouls on the board with 7 for the Heat in a 93-81 win over the Jazz:
https://www.nba.com/games/20190707/UTAMIA#/boxscore

R.J. had 8 points and 10 rebounds in 31 minutes in a 105-100 overtime loss while James Palmer got 7 fouls for the Suns:
https://www.nba.com/games/20190707/NYKPHX#/boxscore

Gary had 31 points and 6 rebounds in 25 minutes in a 97-87 win for the Trailblazers while Trevon had 2 points in 3 minutes:
https://www.nba.com/games/20190707/HOUPOR#/boxscore

Grayson finally got to play and had 17 points in 22 minutes for the Grizzlies in an 87-75 win over the Clippers:
https://www.nba.com/games/20190707/MEMLAC#/boxscore

dukelifer
07-08-2019, 05:41 AM
I watched a bit of the Portland summer league game today. At least when I was watching, Gary Trent Jr. wasn't doing much.

I sure would have liked him on last years Duke team.

Trent had a big game last night. RJ is really struggling in two games- not sure why. Brazdeikis, who was drafted in the 2nd round, had 30 for the Knicks.

Duke79UNLV77
07-08-2019, 07:04 AM
Frank is balling. Sad we didn't get to see more of him at Duke. I feel bad for the people who paid $400 for a SUMMER LEAGUE game and only got like 9 min of Zion. RJ looks like a work in progress.

Will he get a shot to beat out Ball? Ball's assist numbers have been pretty pedestrian for a point guard who is supposed to specialize in assists. Frank should have a clear edge as a scorer, though Ball is supposed to be the better defender.

clinresga
07-08-2019, 07:38 AM
Had to love seeing Antonion Vrankovic in action with the Croatian team yesterday--that was unexpected. Nearly a double-double with 12/8--better than he ever had at Duke--against NBA/G League quality talent. Back in action Tuesday against OKC.

Between Vrank and Marques, after his 10/8/3 stl/2 blk performance, wishing we'd seen some of this when they were still here!

nmduke2001
07-08-2019, 08:19 AM
Trent had a big game last night. RJ is really struggling in two games- not sure why. Brazdeikis, who was drafted in the 2nd round, had 30 for the Knicks.

RJ is not a very good jump shooter. He was at his best last year in transition and attacking the rim. In the league, the height and athleticism of the opposing players make those plays much more difficult. I fear that RJ is going to be a high usage, low efficiency player unless he figures out a jump shot.

clinresga
07-08-2019, 08:28 AM
Had to love seeing Antonion Vrankovic in action with the Croatian team yesterday--that was unexpected. Nearly a double-double with 12/8--better than he ever had at Duke--against NBA/G League quality talent. Back in action Tuesday against OKC.

Between Vrank and Marques, after his 10/8/3 stl/2 blk performance, wishing we'd seen some of this when they were still here!

Sorry, as usual, awhom had already posted those performances. I was just so surprised to see Vrank that I posted before reading his fine print. BTW, thanks awhom, love the updates and the links. Tiding me over until college hoops season.

sagegrouse
07-08-2019, 09:44 AM
Had to love seeing Antonion Vrankovic in action with the Croatian team yesterday--that was unexpected. Nearly a double-double with 12/8--better than he ever had at Duke--against NBA/G League quality talent. Back in action Tuesday against OKC.

Between Vrank and Marques, after his 10/8/3 stl/2 blk performance, wishing we'd seen some of this when they were still here!

Yeah, he got the ESPN nod as "Top Performer: but they couldn't find a picture.

jimsumner
07-08-2019, 10:19 AM
RE: Vrankovic

His career high in points at Duke was eight, both as a soph, once against App State then against Maine.

But he did have a 10-rebound game, against Marist, the opening game of his sophomore season.

dukelifer
07-08-2019, 11:00 AM
Had to love seeing Antonion Vrankovic in action with the Croatian team yesterday--that was unexpected. Nearly a double-double with 12/8--better than he ever had at Duke--against NBA/G League quality talent. Back in action Tuesday against OKC.

Between Vrank and Marques, after his 10/8/3 stl/2 blk performance, wishing we'd seen some of this when they were still here!

Well to be fair- Vrank has been playing against NBA talent for a long time - this must seem easy by comparison ;)

jimsumner
07-08-2019, 11:06 AM
Well to be fair- Vrank has been playing against NBA talent for a long time - this must seem easy by comparison ;)

Good point. In his four years at Duke he would have practiced against Amile Jefferson, Marshall Plumlee, Brandon Ingram, Jayson Tatum, Harry Giles, Marvin Bagley, Wendell Carter, Zion Williamson, Marques Bolden and Javin DeLaurier. And Chase Jeter was a classmate. And that's just the 4/5s.

fraggler
07-08-2019, 11:30 AM
Will he get a shot to beat out Ball? Ball's assist numbers have been pretty pedestrian for a point guard who is supposed to specialize in assists. Frank should have a clear edge as a scorer, though Ball is supposed to be the better defender.

I am not sure where Ball fits on this team, so hard to say what position Frank is trying to beat out. Ball for sure is a plus defender and distributor (especially if they run), but his shooting, especially from the FT line is approaching comically and historically bad, which doesn't fit well with non-shooters like Zion and Favors (not sure yet if Ingram can actually shoot). To me it looks like Frank's ideal role is an off the bench scorer - he looks his best when hunting for points. Assuming JJ would start with Jru, Frank could be the first guard off the bench for scoring. NO is going to have to play a lot of different lineups this year to figure out what they have. I would be really surprised if someone isn't traded by the end of the season.

UrinalCake
07-08-2019, 12:35 PM
Between Vrank and Marques, after his 10/8/3 stl/2 blk performance, wishing we'd seen some of this when they were still here!

It’s a shame Capel blew Vrank’s redshirt back in 2016, or we could have had him for his breakout season this coming year.

(Much sarcasm attached to this post.)

brevity
07-08-2019, 12:59 PM
A little late to the Antonio Vrankovic discussion, but the NBA has posted highlights of the Brooklyn-Croatia game.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nWwLV1Ez7Dk

YouTube also has highlights of Grayson Allen's debut (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Luh1xSLDkWQ) with the Memphis Grizzlies.

jimmymax
07-08-2019, 02:51 PM
RJ is not a very good jump shooter. He was at his best last year in transition and attacking the rim. In the league, the height and athleticism of the opposing players make those plays much more difficult. I fear that RJ is going to be a high usage, low efficiency player unless he figures out a jump shot.

RJ is a prolific shooter, it's just that not enough go in -- even when unguarded at the line. Meanwhile Jabari got a contract. Hope it works out.

jimmymax
07-08-2019, 03:17 PM
RJ is a prolific shooter, it's just that not enough go in -- even when unguarded at the line. Meanwhile Jabari got a contract. Hope it works out.
Ironically, according to my analytics database (aka spreadsheet), in the last 20 years no two Duke players averaged more shots per minute than RJ and Jabari!

jimsumner
07-08-2019, 05:44 PM
Ironically, according to my analytics database (aka spreadsheet), in the last 20 years no two Duke players averaged more shots per minute than RJ and Jabari!

Jabari Parker shot 47.3 percent from the field, 74.8 from the line, 45.8 on 3s and was first-team All-American. He also led the ACC in rebounds.

I'm not sure I've ever heard anyone suggest that he shot too much at Duke. Defended too little? Sure. But that has nothing to do with shot frequency.

So, I guess your point eludes me.

Steven43
07-08-2019, 05:51 PM
Jabari Parker shot 47.3 percent from the field, 74.8 from the line, 45.8 on 3s and was first-team All-American. He also led the ACC in rebounds.

Wow, Parker shot 46% from the 3-pt line??? I had no idea he made 3s at such a high percentage. I would have guessed about 38%. That has got to be very close to the all-time Duke single-season record. I’m shocked.

pfrduke
07-08-2019, 05:55 PM
Wow, Parker shot 46% from the 3-pt line??? I had no idea he made 3s at such a high percentage. I would have guessed about 38%. That has got to be very close to the all-time Duke single-season record. I’m shocked.

That was Jim's typo. He shot 35.8% from 3 - 38-106.

jimsumner
07-08-2019, 06:03 PM
That was Jim's typo. He shot 35.8% from 3 - 38-106.

Actually it's in the media guide, 38-106 for 45.8 percent. Clearly a math error but an obvious one that should have set off some alarms.

Steven43
07-08-2019, 06:19 PM
That was Jim's typo. He shot 35.8% from 3 - 38-106.

Oh, okay, those numbers seem more Parker-like. Regardless, I really enjoyed watching him play during his time at Duke. He provided many “Wow!” moments that I still recall with fondness.

pfrduke
07-08-2019, 06:56 PM
Actually it's in the media guide, 38-106 for 45.8 percent. Clearly a math error but an obvious one that should have set off some alarms.

That's amusing - someone get a note to the SID.

jimmymax
07-08-2019, 07:19 PM
Jabari Parker shot 47.3 percent from the field, 74.8 from the line, 45.8 on 3s and was first-team All-American. He also led the ACC in rebounds.

I'm not sure I've ever heard anyone suggest that he shot too much at Duke. Defended too little? Sure. But that has nothing to do with shot frequency.

So, I guess your point eludes me.

The point was the coincidence of Barrett and Parker both being in mind.

And I was wrong, those two are the freshmen that shot the most. Should have been (shots per 40 minutes):

1. RJ: 20.9
2. Jason Williams (soph) 19.5
3. JJ (senior): 19.3
4. Jabari: 18.6

jimsumner
07-08-2019, 07:32 PM
The point was the coincidence of Barrett and Parker both being in mind.

And I was wrong, those two are the freshmen that shot the most. Should have been (shots per 40 minutes):

1. RJ: 20.9
2. Jason Williams (soph) 19.5
3. JJ (senior): 19.3
4. Jabari: 18.6

That was indeed a coincidence.

Acymetric
07-08-2019, 09:06 PM
Any of our guys going to be playing tonight?

brevity
07-08-2019, 09:15 PM
Any of our guys going to be playing tonight?

Marques Bolden played earlier. No scheduled game for the Rockets (Trevon Duval), Grizzlies (Grayson Allen), or Trail Blazers (Gary Trent Jr.).

I'm watching Pelicans-Bulls right now. Frank Jackson is dressed as Zion's polo shirt twin, so he probably isn't playing.

Roy Williams sighting. I guess the golf courses are closed now?

Acymetric
07-08-2019, 09:20 PM
What about Quinn with the Lakers later (or will he not be involved in summer league)?

brevity
07-08-2019, 09:25 PM
What about Quinn with the Lakers later (or will he not be involved in summer league)?

Quinn is not doing Summer League. Here's the list:

Former Duke Players

Grayson Allen, Memphis Grizzlies
RJ Barrett, New York Knicks
Marques Bolden, Cleveland Cavaliers
Trevon Duval, Houston Rockets
Frank Jackson, New Orleans Pelicans
Amile Jefferson, Orlando Magic
Gary Trent Jr., Portland Trail Blazers
Antonio Vrankovic, Croatia
Zion Williamson, New Orleans Pelicans (but no more games)

BigZ
07-08-2019, 10:16 PM
Is there a reason Cam isn’t playing for Hawks ?

brevity
07-08-2019, 10:21 PM
Is there a reason Cam isn’t playing for Hawks ?

Surgery (https://www.nba.com/article/2019/05/31/cam-reddish-core-muscle-injury). From a May 31 tweet:


Cam Reddish will undergo a minor procedure for a core muscle injury. There is a six-week timetable that will have Reddish fully healthy. The core injury nagged him during the Duke season and will now fully heal.

ETA: Here's a link from the Atlanta paper (https://www.ajc.com/sports/basketball/reddish-won-play-for-hawks-summer-league/T3PRgbEQpslNNUA2YjRabP/) that indicates that surgery has taken place and his recovery is going according to schedule.


“They said it was a six to eight week process (to recover from the surgery). We are four weeks into that. He probably won’t get on the court until the end of July. We will get him in here next week and get on top of his rehab. We had him in here last week so we’ve seen him, our doctors have seen him. Everything is coming along great on that front.”

awhom111
07-09-2019, 01:09 AM
Tuesday's Schedule (times ET):
Croatia (Antonio) vs Thunder, 3:30pm NBATV
Heat vs Magic (Amile), 4:00pm ESPN2
Pacers vs Hawks, 5:30pm NBATV
Trailblazers (Gary) vs Jazz, 6:00pm ESPN2
Suns vs Grizzlies (Grayson), 7:30pm NBATV
Nuggets vs Celtics, 8:00pm ESPN2
Knicks (R.J.) vs Raptors, 9:30pm NBATV
King vs Rockets (Trevon), 10:00pm ESPN2
Clippers vs Wizards, 11:30pm NBATV

A long day was foreshadowed by the first game, which took overtime before the Thunder beat the Sixers 84-81:
https://www.nba.com/games/20190708/OKCPHI#/boxscore

Scoring was the story of the next game, but I was watching fouls as Milton Doyle had 7 for the Kings in their 105-101 win over the Mavericks:
https://www.nba.com/games/20190708/SACDAL#/boxscore

Bruce Brown had 7 fouls for the Pistons in a 102-84 win while MiKyle McIntosh had 7 for the Pacers:
https://www.nba.com/games/20190708/INDDET#/boxscore

There were only normal levels of fouling in the Nets' 88-85 win over the Wizards:
https://www.nba.com/games/20190708/WASBKN#/boxscore

All hail Drew Eubanks for picking up the full 10 in 23 minutes for the Spurs in a 93-90 win over the Raptors, who did win the foul ratio contest with 7 in 12 minutes from Richard Solomon:
https://www.nba.com/games/20190708/SASTOR#/boxscore

Marques had 7 points and 7 rebounds in 26 minutes in an 89-72 loss for the Cavaliers against the Celtics:
https://www.nba.com/games/20190708/CLEBOS#/boxscore

The Timberwolves beat the Bucks 100-91:
https://www.nba.com/games/20190708/MILMIN#/boxscore

The only notable foul in a Duke-less Pelicans 109-72 win over the Bulls was Mychal Mulder's attempt to stop Jaxson Hayes, which was a monumentally bad idea:
https://www.nba.com/games/20190708/NOPCHI#/boxscore

China beat the Hornets 84-80 despite not playing their two arguably most skilled scorers:
https://www.nba.com/games/20190708/CHNCHA#/boxscore

Nick Perkins had 8 fouls and Jordan Caroline had 7 fouls for the Lakers in an 88-80 loss to the Warriors:
https://www.nba.com/games/20190708/GSWLAL#/boxscore

JasonEvans
07-09-2019, 07:06 AM
What about Quinn with the Lakers later (or will he not be involved in summer league)?

I know this was already answered but it provides a good starting place to make a point about NBA Summer League...

In reality, Summer league should be called pre-training camp. Most of the guys playing are merely hoping to get a training camp invite and only a small percentage of the summer league regulars will ever end up making a NBA roster. A typical summer league roster consists of drafted rookies, undrafted players, former G Leaguers, and maybe a couple guys who played somewhat sparingly in the league in their rookie season.

And here is the really interesting part... if you play well, like Frank did in game one, your summer league stint is likely to end early because there is no reason to risk injury and no one really cares who wins or loses. Players who are already in the NBA or highly regarded draft pick who play well (or who get even a hangnail injury) are very likely to play only one or two games at the most.

--Jason "Quinn Cook is 26... 3 or 4 years older than almost everyone playing in Summer League" Evans

CDu
07-09-2019, 07:29 AM
I know this was already answered but it provides a good starting place to make a point about NBA Summer League...

In reality, Summer league should be called pre-training camp. Most of the guys playing are merely hoping to get a training camp invite and only a small percentage of the summer league regulars will ever end up making a NBA roster. A typical summer league roster consists of drafted rookies, undrafted players, former G Leaguers, and maybe a couple guys who played somewhat sparingly in the league in their rookie season.

And here is the really interesting part... if you play well, like Frank did in game one, your summer league stint is likely to end early because there is no reason to risk injury and no one really cares who wins or loses. Players who are already in the NBA or highly regarded draft pick who play well (or who get even a hangnail injury) are very likely to play only one or two games at the most.

--Jason "Quinn Cook is 26... 3 or 4 years older than almost everyone playing in Summer League" Evans

Yeah this is more or less it. I would say that Cook is 3-4 years older than over half the guys playing in Summer League, but there are a decent contingent of b-ball lifers trying to catch on as well. But guys on second (or beyond) NBA deals don’t play Summer League. It is for rookies and second-year guys (there are plenty of those, including Carter had he not been hurt), some third-year guys, G-Leaguers, and the occasional vet who was out of the league but is trying to catch on again. “Made men” second-contract guys and the absolute stud second-year and beyond guys don’t waste their time there.

Dukehk
07-09-2019, 07:45 AM
Really happy that Zion landed with the Pelicans and not the knicks or grizzlies or some other franchise.

After watching jaxson hayes go absolutely bananas today, I think the rest of the league needs to take notice because a front court of him and Zion is going to be unstoppable in the near future.

JNort
07-09-2019, 09:05 PM
Yeeshhh... Mitch Robinson has 5 fouls already with about 10 mins of pt.

dukelifer
07-09-2019, 09:26 PM
Yeeshhh... Mitch Robinson has 5 fouls already with about 10 mins of pt.

RJ just looks like a different player. Really being humbled out there. But he is still playing hard. I expect it to click at some point but he is not comfortable out there.

CDu
07-09-2019, 09:56 PM
RJ just looks like a different player. Really being humbled out there. But he is still playing hard. I expect it to click at some point but he is not comfortable out there.

It isn’t fun to watch, but it really isn’t shocking. He was inefficient against major college opponents, and that was while playing on a team that was way more talented than the competition almost every game. Extend the 3pt line (making his already iffy shot worse); increase the size, strength, and athleticism of the opposition so he can’t bully-ball smaller and less athletic guys; and take away the oodles of transition opportunities, and it is a recipe for struggles.

That is not to say he won’t ever be good. Just that his game isn’t aligned with what works these days in the NBA. Probably going to be a work in progress for him for a while. I would agree with nmduke - he really needs to get a jump shot. He needs some threat to get defenders off balance.

BigZ
07-09-2019, 10:12 PM
I saw highlights of Grayson in today’s game then went to check out his stats but he isn’t listed in bosxcore Weird

UrinalCake
07-09-2019, 10:17 PM
It isn’t fun to watch, but it really isn’t shocking. He was inefficient against major college opponents, and that was while playing on a team that was way more talented than the competition almost every game. Extend the 3pt line (making his already iffy shot worse); increase the size, strength, and athleticism of the opposition so he can’t bully-ball smaller and less athletic guys; and take away the oodles of transition opportunities, and it is a recipe for struggles.

Barrett was fantastic in transition and in straight-line driving to the hoop and finishing through contact. He did start to rack up more assists as the season went on, but I wouldn't say he was a great distributor or excelled at reading the defense. He'll have to improve in those areas (in addition to the jump shot) otherwise the bigger and better defenders of the NBA will simply play him to drive every time. College defenders knew it was coming and couldn't stop it, but that's no longer the case.

Still, it's too early to panic. Plenty of guys struggle in summer league (see Trae Young last year) and do fine once the season starts.

mr. synellinden
07-09-2019, 11:08 PM
24 points (11-17) - 15 rebounds - 3 assists - 2 steals in 27 minutes

https://www.espn.com/nba-summer-league/boxscore?gameId=401144553&league=nba-summer-las-vegas

awhom111
07-10-2019, 12:20 AM
Wednesday's Schedule (times ET):
Sixers vs Pistons, 3:00pm NBATV
Croatia (Antonio) vs Mavericks, 3:30pm ESPNU
Hornets vs Bulls, 5:00pm NBATV
Magic (Amile) vs. Nets, 5:30pm ESPNU
Timberwolves vs Heat, 7:00pm NBATV
Cavaliers (Marques) vs Pelicans (Frank?), 7:30pm ESPN2
Spurs vs Suns, 9:00pm NBATV
Lakers vs Knicks (R.J), 9:30pm ESPN2
China vs Bucks, 11:00pm NBATV
Warriors vs Nuggets, 11:30pm ESPNU

Antonio had 2 points in 5 minutes in Croatia's 84-76 loss to the Thunder, but his teammate Roko Rogic did have 7 fouls:
https://www.nba.com/games/20190709/CROOKC#/boxscore

DaQuan Jeffries did not want Amile to get all the publicity so he had 7 fouls as the Magic lost to the Heat 96-92:
https://www.nba.com/games/20190709/MIAORL#/boxscore

The Hawks beat the Pacers 87-67 in a game featuring normal levels of fouls:
https://www.nba.com/games/20190709/INDATL#/boxscore

Gary had 12 points in 30 minutes in the Trailblazers' 97-93 loss to the Jazz:
https://www.nba.com/games/20190709/PORUTA#/boxscore

Grayson had 13 points in 23 minutes as the Grizzlies beat the Suns 79-69:
https://www.nba.com/games/20190709/PHXMEM#/boxscore

Jaesean Tate had 7 fouls for the Nuggets in a 95-82 loss to the Celtics:
https://www.nba.com/games/20190709/DENBOS#/boxscore

The final line for R.J. was 17 points, 10 rebounds, and 6 assists in 27 minutes as the Knicks lost to the Raptors 85-73 and Mitchell Robinson picked up 7 fouls:
https://www.nba.com/games/20190709/NYKTOR#/boxscore

Trevon did not play for the Rockets in their 94-92 win over the Kings, but Johnathan Williams did pick up 7 fouls:
https://www.nba.com/games/20190709/SACHOU#/boxscore

The Clippers mercifully ended the night early with a 90-72 win over the Wizards:
https://www.nba.com/games/20190709/LACWAS#/boxscore

JasonEvans
07-10-2019, 07:33 AM
Despite all the handwringing about RJ, he had a much better game (6-14 FG, 1-4 3FG, 10 reb, 6 ast, 1 TO, 17 pts) than established NBA player Kevin Knox (3-15 FG, 1-8 3FG, 5 reb, 1 ast, 4 TO, 15 pts).

duke74
07-10-2019, 07:40 AM
Despite all the handwringing about RJ, he had a much better game (6-14 FG, 1-4 3FG, 10 reb, 6 ast, 1 TO, 17 pts) than established NBA player Kevin Knox (3-15 FG, 1-8 3FG, 5 reb, 1 ast, 4 TO, 15 pts).

New York press today a little less critical. Even the post reporter (Marc Bergman) recognized that R.J. had a better game.

They are noting, though, the same thing that a number of the posters here have mentioned: that he will need to improve his outside shot to make better use of his driving ability. And unless he does that, the strength, closing ability, and quickness of the defenders will limit his effectiveness on the drive.

In any regard I think it’s a little too early to write off the draft pick. He is showing heart, motivation and a drive to succeed, and maintaining his confidence.

CDu
07-10-2019, 08:41 AM
Despite all the handwringing about RJ, he had a much better game (6-14 FG, 1-4 3FG, 10 reb, 6 ast, 1 TO, 17 pts) than established NBA player Kevin Knox (3-15 FG, 1-8 3FG, 5 reb, 1 ast, 4 TO, 15 pts).

I am not sure I would call Kevin Knox an established NBA player. He is a second-year guy who was really bad as a rookie (37.0 fg%). And to be fair to Knox, it was Knox’s first bad game compared with Barrett’s first not-awful game.

That said, it was by far Barrett’s best game. Still not overly efficient, but he was god-awful the first two games (7-33, 18 total points). More like what he was in college. Hopefully he builds on it, because the competition is going to get MUCH stiffer than Summer League come October.

JasonEvans
07-10-2019, 09:01 AM
They are noting, though, the same thing that a number of the posters here have mentioned: that he will need to improve his outside shot to make better use of his driving ability. And unless he does that, the strength, closing ability, and quickness of the defenders will limit his effectiveness on the drive.

Not saying it is a sure thing or that it will come easy, but it is quite quite common for players to improve their outside shooting once they enter the NBA. While I doubt RJ ever becomes a guy who hits 40% of his 3s, I will not be even remotely surprised if he becomes significantly better at a mid-range and even long-range game.

dukelifer
07-10-2019, 09:16 AM
Not saying it is a sure thing or that it will come easy, but it is quite quite common for players to improve their outside shooting once they enter the NBA. While I doubt RJ ever becomes a guy who hits 40% of his 3s, I will not be even remotely surprised if he becomes significantly better at a mid-range and even long-range game.

I actually thought his midrange game was pretty good at Duke. He clearly knows that shooting is his weakness and has been working on it in Summer league but he has a long way to go.

BD80
07-10-2019, 10:01 AM
I actually thought his midrange game was pretty good at Duke. He clearly knows that shooting is his weakness and has been working on it in Summer league but he has a long way to go.

Which may explain his struggles so far. It sounds like the Knicks staff is working on his shooting stroke. Even if they are making minor adjustments, it can be quite a while before RJ gets used to the adjustments and they pay dividends. Adjusting the stroke usually makes things worse before they get better.

Indoor66
07-10-2019, 10:23 AM
Adjusting the stroke usually makes things worse before they get better.

Just ask Tiger.

devildeac
07-10-2019, 11:56 AM
Which may explain his struggles so far. It sounds like the Knicks staff is working on his shooting stroke. Even if they are making minor adjustments, it can be quite a while before RJ gets used to the adjustments and they pay dividends. Adjusting the stroke usually makes things worse before they get better.


Just ask Tiger.

Double entendre much? :o;)

JNort
07-10-2019, 10:03 PM
RJ just looks like a different player. Really being humbled out there. But he is still playing hard. I expect it to click at some point but he is not comfortable out there.

I've honestly been impressed with him so far even with the inefficient numbers. He just need to get stronger and continue to improve his long ramge shooting. He has gotten himself plenty of good looks but can't seem to finish them, it will come.

sagegrouse
07-10-2019, 10:19 PM
It isn’t fun to watch, but it really isn’t shocking. He was inefficient against major college opponents, and that was while playing on a team that was way more talented than the competition almost every game. Extend the 3pt line (making his already iffy shot worse); increase the size, strength, and athleticism of the opposition so he can’t bully-ball smaller and less athletic guys; and take away the oodles of transition opportunities, and it is a recipe for struggles.

That is not to say he won’t ever be good. Just that his game isn’t aligned with what works these days in the NBA. Probably going to be a work in progress for him for a while. I would agree with nmduke - he really needs to get a jump shot. He needs some threat to get defenders off balance.

Not picking on you my friend -- but actually I am. Could we have some HUMILITY every now and then? RJ was a consensus pick as first-team All-American; he was selected #2 in the NBA Draft to an all-time talent. And, although the Knicks are a poorly run franchise, I feel safe in predicting that most NBA teams would have picked RJ in the same position. And you say, dismissively and with utter certitude, "That is not to say he won't ever be good. Just that his game isn't aligned with what works these days in the NBA." Just what makes you so much smarter than the NBA teams?

Finally, there is a difference between "certitude" and "certainty."

I am not sure whether I am attacking you or just springing to the defense of a valued Duke player.

CDu
07-10-2019, 10:48 PM
Not picking on you my friend -- but actually I am. Could we have some HUMILITY every now and then? RJ was a consensus pick as first-team All-American; he was selected #2 in the NBA Draft to an all-time talent. And, although the Knicks are a poorly run franchise, I feel safe in predicting that most NBA teams would have picked RJ in the same position. And you say, dismissively and with utter certitude, "That is not to say he won't ever be good. Just that his game isn't aligned with what works these days in the NBA." Just what makes you so much smarter than the NBA teams?

Finally, there is a difference between "certitude" and "certainty."

I am not sure whether I am attacking you or just springing to the defense of a valued Duke player.

Hmm, “could we have some HUMILITY every now and then?” sure seems like a personal attack to me. But whatever. In the immortal words of Smokin’ Jay Cutler, “dooooon’t care.”

Not to nitpick you, but Barrett was taken #3 not #2. In what many were calling a weak draft. And plenty of folks analyzing him have raised the same concerns I have.

I am not saying these things as if I came up with the ideas on my own. I am not purporting to be some genius. I am just saying what I strongly feel will happen. That belief is going partially off what I saw in college and mostly what I have read. I think a LOT of the guys drafted are going to struggle. That isn’t exactly a bold prediction in my opinion. I just think (and I am far from alone on this) that Barrett will be one of them too, unless/until he gets a jumpshot.

I am cheering for him to find that jumper and become a stud. Hopefully he will.

JNort
07-11-2019, 12:16 AM
Hmm, “could we have some HUMILITY every now and then?” sure seems like a personal attack to me. But whatever. In the immortal words of Smokin’ Jay Cutler, “dooooon’t care.”

Not to nitpick you, but Barrett was taken #3 not #2. In what many were calling a weak draft. And plenty of folks analyzing him have raised the same concerns I have.

I am not saying these things as if I came up with the ideas on my own. I am not purporting to be some genius. I am just saying what I strongly feel will happen. That belief is going partially off what I saw in college and mostly what I have read. I think a LOT of the guys drafted are going to struggle. That isn’t exactly a bold prediction in my opinion. I just think (and I am far from alone on this) that Barrett will be one of them too, unless/until he gets a jumpshot.

I am cheering for him to find that jumper and become a stud. Hopefully he will.

I asked this in another thread and I think it went unanswered but... What are we calling a "weak draft"? Is it one that is lower on All Star talent? If so then yeah this one seems weak. If it's just NBA talent in general I disagree, this draft was loaded with role players I expect to be on teams for a long time.


As for RJ I can't agree. He is tailor made for the modern NBA and I fully expect him to be at or over 35% from 3 for most of his career. I honestly feel he is safer than Zion is but Zion has a ceiling that is unmatched. RJ has minor and easily fixed problems but his desire and work ethic make me think he can't fail. I trust RJ to work and improve himself more so than anyone else in recent drafts.

awhom111
07-11-2019, 12:33 AM
Thursday's Schedule (times ET):
Raptors vs Pacers, 6:00pm NBATV
Hawks vs Wizards, 6:30pm ESPN2
Blazers (Gary) vs Thunder, 8:00pm NBATV
Jazz vs Rockets (Trevon), 8:30pm ESPNU
Kings vs Clippers, 10:00pm NBATV
Celtics vs Grizzlies (Grayson), 10:30pm ESPN2

Christ Koumadje hit the 7 foul mark again in the Sixers 96-81 loss to the Pistons, who got 8 fouls from Matt Costello and a triple-double from Bruce Brown, leading me to hope that one day someone will record a septuple-double with the five traditional stats as well as turnovers and fouls:
https://www.nba.com/games/20190710/PHIDET#/boxscore

Antonio had 12 points and 6 rebounds in 24 minutes in Croatia's 79-71 loss to the Mavericks:
https://www.nba.com/games/20190710/CRODAL#/boxscore

Isaiah Hicks picked up 7 fouls and 7 units at his former institution in the Hornets' 75-72 loss to the Bulls:
https://www.nba.com/games/20190710/CHACHI#/boxscore

Amile had 18 points and 8 rebounds in 26 minutes as the Magic lost to the Nets 93-85, but at least Braian Angola had time to pick up 9 fouls:
https://www.nba.com/games/20190710/ORLBKN#/boxscore

The Timberwolves beat the Heat 90-87 in a battle of unbeatens as some teams do actually try to win:
https://www.nba.com/games/20190710/MINMIA#/boxscore

Marques had 13 points in 21 minutes for the Cavaliers in a 99-78 loss as the Pelicans roll on without their Duke guys and Jaxon Hayes picked up 7 fouls:
https://www.nba.com/games/20190710/CLENOP#/boxscore

Luka Samanic rewarded me for picking him in our mock draft by committing 7 fouls in the Spurs' 79-78 loss to Phoenix:
https://www.nba.com/games/20190710/SASPHX#/boxscore

R.J. had 21 points and 10 rebounds in 29 minutes for the Knicks in a 117-96 win as the Lakers were more focused on fouls with Devontae Cacok celebrating his signing with 8 and Nick Perkins getting 7 before the end of the third quarter, preventing himself from getting more by grabbing Mitchell Robinson's completely wet headband and flinging it at him to earn an ejection:
https://www.nba.com/games/20190710/LALNYK#/boxscore

Zhou Qi had 8 fouls in China's 84-67 loss to the Bucks as they did not even bother to trot out Yi Jianlian to remind their opponents of their questionable draft picks of the past:
https://www.nba.com/games/20190710/CHNMIL#/boxscore

The Warriors beat the Nuggets 73-69 to end the day:
https://www.nba.com/games/20190710/GSWDEN#/boxscore

duke74
07-11-2019, 04:56 AM
Today’s New York Post on RJ.

https://nypost.com/2019/07/11/rj-barretts-new-approach-that-could-be-knicks-blessing/?utm_campaign=iosapp&utm_source=pasteboard_app

ice-9
07-11-2019, 06:44 AM
I asked this in another thread and I think it went unanswered but... What are we calling a "weak draft"? Is it one that is lower on All Star talent? If so then yeah this one seems weak. If it's just NBA talent in general I disagree, this draft was loaded with role players I expect to be on teams for a long time.


As for RJ I can't agree. He is tailor made for the modern NBA and I fully expect him to be at or over 35% from 3 for most of his career. I honestly feel he is safer than Zion is but Zion has a ceiling that is unmatched. RJ has minor and easily fixed problems but his desire and work ethic make me think he can't fail. I trust RJ to work and improve himself more so than anyone else in recent drafts.


Agreed. RJ is a 3-pointer away from being a starter on a championship team, and maybe even an All-Star. Conventional wisdom is that the jump shot is what usually improves most in the NBA.

Heck if Lance Thomas can become a good shooter so can RJ. He'll need the work ethic and by all accounts he's got it.

CDu
07-11-2019, 06:59 AM
I asked this in another thread and I think it went unanswered but... What are we calling a "weak draft"? Is it one that is lower on All Star talent? If so then yeah this one seems weak. If it's just NBA talent in general I disagree, this draft was loaded with role players I expect to be on teams for a long time.


As for RJ I can't agree. He is tailor made for the modern NBA and I fully expect him to be at or over 35% from 3 for most of his career. I honestly feel he is safer than Zion is but Zion has a ceiling that is unmatched. RJ has minor and easily fixed problems but his desire and work ethic make me think he can't fail. I trust RJ to work and improve himself more so than anyone else in recent drafts.


Agreed. RJ is a 3-pointer away from being a starter on a championship team, and maybe even an All-Star. Conventional wisdom is that the jump shot is what usually improves most in the NBA.

Heck if Lance Thomas can become a good shooter so can RJ. He'll need the work ethic and by all accounts he's got it.

My “his game right now doesn’t fit the modern NBA” comment is based on 2 things: he is a poor shooter, and his ballhandling is limited (pretty much all left hand, mostly a straight-line driver). If/when he fixes those two things, great. Right now? He is extremely likely to struggle.

Like I said in my original post, that doesn’t mean he won’t struggle forever. Just that it isn’t surprising that he is struggling now. With time, hopefully the jumper improves and the ballhandling improves. It is very possible those two things get corrected, especially the shooting. And if so, great. But all I said was that - right now - his game doesn’t align with the modern NBA (which is 3pt heavy) and as a result his struggles aren’t that surprising. That shouldn’t have been such a controversial statement.

Troublemaker
07-11-2019, 09:25 AM
The Knicks also haven't put enough shooting around RJ. Until he finds a jumpshot (which might never happen), the Knicks needed to pair him with PGs that can shoot. Elfrid Payton and Dennis Smith Jr are not that, unfortunately. Kevin Knox is also developing NBA range and won't have enough gravity yet with his 34% 3-pt / 71% FT shooting, and their only stretch big is Bobby Portis, who might not start.

The Knicks will regret not trading down at #3, and RJ will lament that the team that drafted him doesn't know how to build around him to give him a chance. As with all Duke players, I wish he had gone to a team that is smart.

CDu
07-11-2019, 09:56 AM
The Knicks also haven't put enough shooting around RJ. Until he finds a jumpshot (which might never happen), the Knicks needed to pair him with PGs that can shoot. Elfrid Payton and Dennis Smith Jr are not that, unfortunately. Kevin Knox is also developing NBA range and won't have enough gravity yet with his 34% 3-pt / 71% FT shooting, and their only stretch big is Bobby Portis, who might not start.

The Knicks will regret not trading down at #3, and RJ will lament that the team that drafted him doesn't know how to build around him to give him a chance. As with all Duke players, I wish he had gone to a team that is smart.

I agree with this. If the Knicks had landed Irving and Durant, I'd feel pretty good about Barrett's situation. Those guys can shoot, which would open the floor for Barrett to drive. And they would take a ton of the burden off of him as a creator/playmaker. That would allow him to focus on his predatory game, finding buckets in the flow of play (attacking in transition, getting offensive rebounds, punishing defensive breakdowns) rather than having to create things against a set defense focused on containing him.

But the Knicks don't currently have a team of shooters or a team that has guys to break the defense down (maybe Smith Jr gets there, maybe not). I'd like Barrett's situation a lot more right now if he had Porzingis instead of Smith Jr.

The good thing is that he's still young. So he has time to develop. And hopefully as he develops, the Knicks will recognize the roster limitations and correct course in the next year to put a more cohesive group together. It's hard to see Smith/Barrett/Knox being the combination that they want to build around (not necessarily based on their talent, just based on their iffy fit together - and based on Knox's questionable talent).

In fairness to the Knicks, I don't think they were planning on building with Smith next to Barrett. They were going all-in on getting max guys this summer. It famously didn't work out though. So this is probably another transition year for them with a refocus on adding a better piece or two next summer I guess.

bundabergdevil
07-11-2019, 10:00 AM
Today’s New York Post on RJ.

https://nypost.com/2019/07/11/rj-barretts-new-approach-that-could-be-knicks-blessing/?utm_campaign=iosapp&utm_source=pasteboard_app

Nice to see him get some positive press. I'd frame it. I'm sure at some point (possibly many points) whether warranted or not, the NY Post will give him some grief. It's a NY publication through and through.

duke74
07-11-2019, 10:17 AM
I agree with this. If the Knicks had landed Irving and Durant, I'd feel pretty good about Barrett's situation. Those guys can shoot, which would open the floor for Barrett to drive. And they would take a ton of the burden off of him as a creator/playmaker. That would allow him to focus on his predatory game, finding buckets in the flow of play (attacking in transition, getting offensive rebounds, punishing defensive breakdowns) rather than having to create things against a set defense focused on containing him.

But the Knicks don't currently have a team of shooters or a team that has guys to break the defense down (maybe Smith Jr gets there, maybe not). I'd like Barrett's situation a lot more right now if he had Porzingis instead of Smith Jr.

The good thing is that he's still young. So he has time to develop. And hopefully as he develops, the Knicks will recognize the roster limitations and correct course in the next year to put a more cohesive group together. It's hard to see Smith/Barrett/Knox being the combination that they want to build around (not necessarily based on their talent, just based on their iffy fit together - and based on Knox's questionable talent).

In fairness to the Knicks, I don't think they were planning on building with Smith next to Barrett. They were going all-in on getting max guys this summer. It famously didn't work out though. So this is probably another transition year for them with a refocus on adding a better piece or two next summer I guess.


The story here is that Smith is reconstructing his shot mechanics from a broken bone issue (same as Keith Smart - asst coach - had). We'll see once the season starts.

We're also hearing that we have better shooting with Ellington and Bullock (if he ultimately passes the physical). But agree with your point completely.

The kid from Canada/Lithuania/Michigan, Ignas Brazdeikis, also seems to have a shot that might space the floor.

I posted the NY Post article earlier about the use of RJ in the a post-up mode last night to get away from just 3-point shots and drives. Seemed successful (even recognizing the opponent)

In no way did I want us to trade down...glad we have RJ (including for the St. John's connection) :)

CDu
07-11-2019, 10:49 AM
The story here is that Smith is reconstructing his shot mechanics from a broken bone issue (same as Keith Smart - asst coach - had). We'll see once the season starts.

It will be interesting to see. If Smith can shoot, that helps a lot. Big "IF" there of course, as you know.


I posted the NY Post article earlier about the use of RJ in the a post-up mode last night to get away from just 3-point shots and drives. Seemed successful (even recognizing the opponent)

Developing a post game would be interesting. It would further emphasize the need for the Knicks to surround him with shooters (especially among the bigs). But if he can develop a post game, it would allow him to play to his strengths (strength/length at SG, passing from a set position, not shooting threes, not having to break down set defenses from the perimeter). Post games aren't necessarily easy to develop (it's an entirely different skill set than facing up and attacking from the perimeter), but if he can do it that would create an interesting way to play. Sort of an inverted triangle, with him trying to play bully ball against smaller guards. Again, it would really require your bigs to be shooters to have a chance to work. He's got the passing chops to do it, the question is if he can build the post moves and post-shooting skill set to make it an asset and if they can get the floor spacing to not have opposing bigs just crash down on him.

nmduke2001
07-11-2019, 10:56 AM
My “his game right now doesn’t fit the modern NBA” comment is based on 2 things: he is a poor shooter, and his ballhandling is limited (pretty much all left hand, mostly a straight-line driver). If/when he fixes those two things, great. Right now? He is extremely likely to struggle.

Like I said in my original post, that doesn’t mean he won’t struggle forever. Just that it isn’t surprising that he is struggling now. With time, hopefully the jumper improves and the ballhandling improves. It is very possible those two things get corrected, especially the shooting. And if so, great. But all I said was that - right now - his game doesn’t align with the modern NBA (which is 3pt heavy) and as a result his struggles aren’t that surprising. That shouldn’t have been such a controversial statement.

I fear that RJ will become one those really inefficient NBA guys. You know the guys; the one's when you look at the box score and see 22 points but then realize that they took 21 shots to get there.

I know this is an unpopular opinion, but I really think Cam will be a better NBA player than RJ. Sure Cam struggled last year, but that can be explained by the news that he played the whole season with a core muscle injury. I saw an interview with one of the Hawks brass yesterday and he said that they were planning on playing Cam some at the back up point guard position. They also said that they felt fortunate that he struggled at Duke because that allowed him to fall to them. They expect him to be a much better player when playing healthy. To me, it makes me think how tough Cam was to play without any real sense that he was dealing with this injury.

Anyway, I hope all Duke guys do well.

duke74
07-11-2019, 10:56 AM
Nice to see him get some positive press. I'd frame it. I'm sure at some point (possibly many points) whether warranted or not, the NY Post will give him some grief. It's a NY publication through and through.


Vaccaro has been supportive. Berman is being jerky, but coming around a bit.

Get this from the Berman article I posted. Geesh.

"Barrett has had mixed results at summer league but came on stronger after an atrocious first two games.

At least he has shown more stamina than Duke buddy Zion Williamson, the No. 1 pick by the Pelicans. He lasted nine minutes in his only summer league appearance and then was shut down with knee/back pain after looking out of shape."

Nothing to do with knees knocking, right?

bundabergdevil
07-11-2019, 10:59 AM
I fear that RJ will become one those really inefficient NBA guys. You know the guys; the one's when you look at the box score and see 22 points but then realize that they took 21 shots to get there.

I know this is an unpopular opinion, but I really think Cam will be a better NBA player than RJ. Sure Cam struggled last year, but that can be explained by the news that he played the whole season with a core muscle injury. I saw an interview with one of the Hawks brass yesterday and he said that they were planning on playing Cam some at the back up point guard position. They also said that they felt fortunate that he struggled at Duke because that allowed him to fall to them. They expect him to be a much better player when playing healthy. To me, it makes me think how tough Cam was to play without any real sense that he was dealing with this injury.

Anyway, I hope all Duke guys do well.

I think RJ has that in him, sure. He's been carrying a significant offensive load most of his life and been asked to - and seized the opportunity to be - the guy. That said, he shared the spotlight with Zion with ease and seems to really have the best possible support infrastructure. I mean, Steve Nash is the guy's godfather! All that is to say, I think he's both shown a willingness to be a great teammate, adapt his game, and has one of the best pros on the planet advising him on how to be a good pro.

So, I think he'll put in the work to be the best player he can be, regardless of what that means.

duke74
07-11-2019, 11:00 AM
It will be interesting to see. If Smith can shoot, that helps a lot. Big "IF" there of course, as you know.



Developing a post game would be interesting. It would further emphasize the need for the Knicks to surround him with shooters (especially among the bigs). But if he can develop a post game, it would allow him to play to his strengths (strength/length at SG, passing from a set position, not shooting threes, not having to break down set defenses from the perimeter). Post games aren't necessarily easy to develop (it's an entirely different skill set than facing up and attacking from the perimeter), but if he can do it that would create an interesting way to play. Sort of an inverted triangle, with him trying to play bully ball against smaller guards. Again, it would really require your bigs to be shooters to have a chance to work. He's got the passing chops to do it, the question is if he can build the post moves and post-shooting skill set to make it an asset and if they can get the floor spacing to not have opposing bigs just crash down on him.

Ouch. Understand your point, but, after we went through with the so-called "Zen Master," we hate triangles in any format or direction. :)

CDu
07-11-2019, 11:08 AM
Ouch. Understand your point, but, after we went through with the so-called "Zen Master," we hate triangles in any format or direction. :)

LOL - yeah, sorry, I forgot that Knicks fans might have PTSD on that.

In fairness, I think the issue with the Triangle in New York was that Jackson tried to force it on guys who didn't buy in and/or didn't fit the game. The concept of the Triangle is pretty versatile and valuable: the challenge is getting guys who grew up as iso players to buy in. But basically it's all about keeping good floor spacing, reading the defense, and reacting. Some guys master it, some guys (especially those with tunnel vision) balk at it.

I'd never run it with a guy like Westbrook or Irving or Harden. LeBron could run it brilliantly as the post guy. It's all about having guys that know how to read, cut, find cutters, etc., and maximize the open space to put pressure on the defense.

Unfortunately, Jackson was too old and not interested in putting in the effort to build a team to make it work. But I think that was less about the Triangle and more about the one implementing it.

That said, I understand the disdain you might have from the experience.

JasonEvans
07-11-2019, 01:32 PM
As long as we are talking about the Knicks a bit... I am dying to see what kind of season Porzingis has at Dallas. If he is anything but broken down and forever injury prone then some (everyone?) in the Knicks front office needs to be fired. We are talking about a mobile, 7-3, rim-protector who averaged close to 23 points per game while hitting 40% of his 3s at the age of 21... and the Knicks traded him away. One would not be crazy for saying Porzingas is the model of a perfect modern NBA big man, one who seems somewhat likely to be a staple on All-star teams once he gets healthy and a little more physically mature.

I get the allure of 2 max salary slots and know the Knicks had to get rid of the awful contracts (contract the front office loved when they signed them), but it feels like they gave up an asset that could have been a key part of the franchise for a decade.

-Jason "I know, I know... the relationship with the coaching staff and front office had soured much like Kawhi in San Antonio... but I still think the Knicks are run by idiots who aren't 1/5th as smart as they think they are" Evans

BD80
07-11-2019, 01:49 PM


-Jason "I know, I know... the relationship with the coaching staff and front office had soured much like Kawhi in San Antonio... but I still think the Knicks are run by idiots who aren't 1/5th as smart as they think they are" Evans

Is there ANYONE 1/5 as smart as they think they are?

Hell. Stephen Hawking wasn't 1/5 as smart as I think am.

And good looking? Don't get me started. Brad Pitt can only wish he was 1/5 as handsome …


I do not allow mirrors in my house

CDu
07-11-2019, 02:01 PM
As long as we are talking about the Knicks a bit... I am dying to see what kind of season Porzingis has at Dallas. If he is anything but broken down and forever injury prone then some (everyone?) in the Knicks front office needs to be fired. We are talking about a mobile, 7-3, rim-protector who averaged close to 23 points per game while hitting 40% of his 3s at the age of 21... and the Knicks traded him away. One would not be crazy for saying Porzingas is the model of a perfect modern NBA big man, one who seems somewhat likely to be a staple on All-star teams once he gets healthy and a little more physically mature.

I get the allure of 2 max salary slots and know the Knicks had to get rid of the awful contracts (contract the front office loved when they signed them), but it feels like they gave up an asset that could have been a key part of the franchise for a decade.

-Jason "I know, I know... the relationship with the coaching staff and front office had soured much like Kawhi in San Antonio... but I still think the Knicks are run by idiots who aren't 1/5th as smart as they think they are" Evans

The irony is that after the Knicks failed to get max guys this summer as hoped, they then kind of messed up their salary cap situation by signing Randle to a 3-year deal. It looks like the 2021 free agent class is where the next free agent bonanza will be, and now they are on the hook for Randle's salary that year. Not that Randle is a bad player, just that he makes it more work for them to clear space to make a big splash.

The play was to get a bunch of 1- and 2-year guys and reboot for 2021. And they didn't even do that quite right. And they got some guys who don't make a ton of sense with who they drafted as their presumptive short-term centerpiece.

duke74
07-11-2019, 02:50 PM
As long as we are talking about the Knicks a bit... I am dying to see what kind of season Porzingis has at Dallas. If he is anything but broken down and forever injury prone then some (everyone?) in the Knicks front office needs to be fired. We are talking about a mobile, 7-3, rim-protector who averaged close to 23 points per game while hitting 40% of his 3s at the age of 21... and the Knicks traded him away. One would not be crazy for saying Porzingas is the model of a perfect modern NBA big man, one who seems somewhat likely to be a staple on All-star teams once he gets healthy and a little more physically mature.

I get the allure of 2 max salary slots and know the Knicks had to get rid of the awful contracts (contract the front office loved when they signed them), but it feels like they gave up an asset that could have been a key part of the franchise for a decade.

-Jason "I know, I know... the relationship with the coaching staff and front office had soured much like Kawhi in San Antonio... but I still think the Knicks are run by idiots who aren't 1/5th as smart as they think they are" Evans

Jason, partially agree with you (about our front office).

Porzingis (the erstwhile "unicorn") did not want to be here. His brother/advisor made that clear. Petulantly refused to meet with Phil Jackson after the season two years ago (whatever you think about Phil - he was still the president.) Only only risk here is whether we got enough back, and/or used it well enough.

Heck with him....MSG may not be what it was, but if you don't want to be here...then good riddance.

JasonEvans
07-11-2019, 07:10 PM
The irony is that after the Knicks failed to get max guys this summer as hoped, they then kind of messed up their salary cap situation by signing Randle to a 3-year deal. It looks like the 2021 free agent class is where the next free agent bonanza will be, and now they are on the hook for Randle's salary that year. Not that Randle is a bad player, just that he makes it more work for them to clear space to make a big splash.

The play was to get a bunch of 1- and 2-year guys and reboot for 2021. And they didn't even do that quite right. And they got some guys who don't make a ton of sense with who they drafted as their presumptive short-term centerpiece.

Their deal with Randle is only partially guaranteed in year 3 (which will be the summer of 2021). Though he would be paid $19.8 mil if the Knicks keep him, they can buy him out for just $4 mil. Now, that $4 mil will count against the cap that summer, but that Knicks should still be in a good spot to offer big money in 2021 (depending on whether they have to pay Knox or some other youngster by then).

-Jason "cap space alone does not make a team attractive -- having young, cheap pieces that can play in addition to cap space is where it is at" Evans

BigZ
07-11-2019, 11:17 PM
Grayson ejected for two flagrant fouls

brlftz
07-11-2019, 11:20 PM
Ugh, Grayson just had a real bad night (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=miyHUtrIFCg)

Managed to get ejected from a summer league game after taking his second shot at Grant Williams. Memphis fans online torching him.

eta: in that linked video, the first flagrant happens around 30 seconds in, next one comes about 3:15 in.

BD80
07-11-2019, 11:27 PM
Ugh, Grayson just had a real bad night (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=miyHUtrIFCg)

Managed to get ejected from a summer league game after taking his second shot at Grant Williams. Memphis fans online torching him.

eta: in that linked video, the first flagrant happens around 30 seconds in, next one comes about 3:15 in.

Grant Williams got WAY under his skin. You can see Williams jabbering after missed the first free-throw and how much it bothered Grayson. Both fouls were just stupid by Grayson. Very immature.

brlftz
07-11-2019, 11:30 PM
Grant Williams got WAY under his skin. You can see Williams jabbering after missed the first free-throw and how much it bothered Grayson. Both fouls were just stupid by Grayson. Very immature.

Yeah. If you watch the video all the way through, Dakich and the other guy just murder him.

awhom111
07-12-2019, 12:24 AM
The day started with the Raptors beating the Pacers 94-79:
https://www.nba.com/games/20190711/TORIND#/boxscore

The Wizards then beat the Hawks 76-71:
https://www.nba.com/games/20190711/ATLWAS#/boxscore

Gary had 22 points and 8 rebounds in 33 minutes as the Trailblazers lost to the Thunder 92-87:
https://www.nba.com/games/20190711/POROKC#/boxscore

Trevon did play in the Rockets' 87-78 win over the Jazz as the trade just so happened to hit the news when both teams involved started their games:
https://www.nba.com/games/20190711/UTAHOU#/boxscore

Mfiondu Kabengele and David Michineau each picked up 7 fouls for the Clippers in an 83-80 win over the Kings:
https://www.nba.com/games/20190711/SACLAC#/boxscore

Grayson finished with 3 points in 19 minutes as the Grizzlies lost to the Celtics 113-87:
https://www.nba.com/games/20190711/BOSMEM#/boxscore

Grant Williams also became the last person to pick up 7 fouls as the rest of the games will approximate the actual rules of basketball.

The tournament has been made much shorter this year with only eight teams qualifying.

These consolation games will be played on Friday (times ET):
Sixers vs Raptors, 4:00pm ESPNU
Lakers vs Warriors, 4:30pm NBATV
Croatia (Antonio) vs Thunder, 6:00pm ESPNU
China vs Suns, 6:30pm NBATV
Cavaliers (Marques) vs Kings, 8:00pm ESPNU
Pacers vs Clippers, 8:30pm NBATV
Trailblazers (Gary) vs Bucks, 10:00pm ESPNU
Hawks vs Spurs, 10:30pm NBATV

JNort
07-12-2019, 04:11 AM
My “his game right now doesn’t fit the modern NBA” comment is based on 2 things: he is a poor shooter, and his ballhandling is limited (pretty much all left hand, mostly a straight-line driver). If/when he fixes those two things, great. Right now? He is extremely likely to struggle.

Like I said in my original post, that doesn’t mean he won’t struggle forever. Just that it isn’t surprising that he is struggling now. With time, hopefully the jumper improves and the ballhandling improves. It is very possible those two things get corrected, especially the shooting. And if so, great. But all I said was that - right now - his game doesn’t align with the modern NBA (which is 3pt heavy) and as a result his struggles aren’t that surprising. That shouldn’t have been such a controversial statement.
I think we are just viewing him differently in that you're talking about the right here right now, I am not. His shot looks solid and he is a crafty driver which added in with his work ethic indicates to me he most likely wont have much of a problem with either of those things after a year or two of NBA training. The only worries I have involve his decision making once he actually drives to the rim, he frequently likes to force things instead of kicking out to an open man.

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
07-12-2019, 05:01 AM
Grant Williams got WAY under his skin. You can see Williams jabbering after missed the first free-throw and how much it bothered Grayson. Both fouls were just stupid by Grayson. Very immature.

Williams looked very proud of himself. Looks like it was pretty easy to get Grayson to pop off tho.

FerryFor50
07-12-2019, 08:07 AM
Williams looked very proud of himself. Looks like it was pretty easy to get Grayson to pop off tho.

Neither flagrant looked all that bad. The first, he shoved Williams, likely because he didn't like the moving screen.

On the second, he swiped, but looked like he *barely* made contact, if at all, and might have even gotten some of the ball.

9603

And where was the flagrant on this play?

https://twitter.com/BrianTRobb/status/1147624341707751424?s=20

duke96
07-12-2019, 09:13 AM
I saw an interview with one of the Hawks brass yesterday and he said that they were planning on playing Cam some at the back up point guard position.

Hard to see how this could make much sense after all of Cam’s sloppy drives last season. He would have to really improve his handle.

nmduke2001
07-12-2019, 09:23 AM
Grant Williams got WAY under his skin. You can see Williams jabbering after missed the first free-throw and how much it bothered Grayson. Both fouls were just stupid by Grayson. Very immature.

I watched the whole first half and Grayson was on edge all night. Several times he lowered his shoulder into the screener and also pushed his way out of screens. One time he made a swipe at the ball but really just looked like he was trying to hit the guy. He was playing weird and borderline dirty. I mentioned to my wife that he was earning his reputation in the first half. I was not surprised when I saw this morning that he was ejected.

Grayson is one of my all-time favorite Duke players but he really needs to keep his emotions in check.