2019 NBA Summer Free Agency/Trades

[JasonEvans]

Ok, I just saw some news and was trying to figure out where to fit it. It ain't about the draft or the playoffs so I think we need a new off-season collector thread. Here you go... have at it!

Oh, and that news that I saw... Al Horford is opting out of his $30 mil option year with the Celtics. I suspect there will be more than a few contenders who will want him quite badly (good rebounding, good outside shooting, rim protecting, good clubhouse leader).

If he leaves Boston... whew, that team will have just been whipped by the past year. A year ago they had all the pieces plus super draft assets. But then the Kings won more than expected, Kyrie couldn't mesh with the youngsters, and GHey turned out to be a shadow of his former self.

-Jason "show how much good or bad luck can make a GM look smart or stupid" Evans

[JasonEvans]

Ok, I just saw some news and was trying to figure out where to fit it. It ain't about the draft or the playoffs so I think we need a new off-season collector thread. Here you go... have at it!

Oh, and that news that I saw... Al Horford is opting out of his $30 mil option year with the Celtics. I suspect there will be more than a few contenders who will want him quite badly (good rebounding, good outside shooting, rim protecting, good clubhouse leader).

If he leaves Boston... whew, that team will have just been whipped by the past year. A year ago they had all the pieces plus super draft assets. But then the Kings won more than expected, Kyrie couldn't mesh with the youngsters, and GHey turned out to be a shadow of his former self.

-Jason "show how much good or bad luck can make a GM look smart or stupid" Evans

Ooops... he's not leaving the Cs. According to the Boston Herald: (https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2841431-celtics-rumors-al-horford-discussing-new-3-year-contract-if-he-declines-option)


Al Horford could remain with the Boston Celtics even if he declines his $30.1 million player option for 2019-20.

According to Steve Bulpett of the Boston Herald, "the sides have been discussing a plan where he comes in at a lower number next season and gets two more years tacked on in a new deal."

[CDu]

Ok, I just saw some news and was trying to figure out where to fit it. It ain't about the draft or the playoffs so I think we need a new off-season collector thread. Here you go... have at it!

Oh, and that news that I saw... Al Horford is opting out of his $30 mil option year with the Celtics. I suspect there will be more than a few contenders who will want him quite badly (good rebounding, good outside shooting, rim protecting, good clubhouse leader).

If he leaves Boston... whew, that team will have just been whipped by the past year. A year ago they had all the pieces plus super draft assets. But then the Kings won more than expected, Kyrie couldn't mesh with the youngsters, and GHey turned out to be a shadow of his former self.

-Jason "show how much good or bad luck can make a GM look smart or stupid" Evans

Yeah, Boston appears to have whiffed on things a bit (and gotten bad luck with the injury to Hayward), holding on to those draft assets for a bit too long and getting stuck with a bunch of mediocre draft picks in what appears to be a weak draft class.

It will be interesting to see if Horford does indeed opt out. It's a good time to do so, with lots of teams having cash this offseason and with Irving appearing ready to jump ship and Marcus Morris a free agent. And maybe he can capitalize and get one last big contract.

If Horford leaves, the Celtics could have a few million in cap space (assuming they retain the cap holds for Rozier and Theis for about $11 million combined and renounce everyone else). If Horford AND Irving leave, they'll have about $25 million in cap space in that scenario. Not really enough to add a superstar, so they would have to rely on Tatum, Brown, and Rozier to make the jump. The retaining of Smart - a good role player but not a transcendent player - has sort of handcuffed them this offseason.

As for Hayward, he actually had a pretty decent year last year. His per-36 numbers and rate stats were more or less in line with his career norms: lower scoring rate but higher efficiency, more rebounds, more assists, and fewer turnovers. He just played more limited minutes due to returning from injury and the Celtics' depth. He wasn't as good as his best year, of course, but he was far from bad. Truth is, he was probably overpaid originally relative to what the Celtics "needed", as his skill set sort of duplicates what Tatum does (but with better passing).

This is going to be another really entertaining offseason to see where all the dominoes fall. Maybe Horford re-signs with the Celtics (which would really be the only free agent acquisition of impact they could make), they re-sign Rozier, and they add a decent player with the MLE. That would keep them interesting in the East, especially if/when Kawhi leaves and if Philly takes a roster hit.

[Acymetric]

Ok, I just saw some news and was trying to figure out where to fit it. It ain't about the draft or the playoffs so I think we need a new off-season collector thread. Here you go... have at it!

Oh, and that news that I saw... Al Horford is opting out of his $30 mil option year with the Celtics. I suspect there will be more than a few contenders who will want him quite badly (good rebounding, good outside shooting, rim protecting, good clubhouse leader).

If he leaves Boston... whew, that team will have just been whipped by the past year. A year ago they had all the pieces plus super draft assets. But then the Kings won more than expected, Kyrie couldn't mesh with the youngsters, and GHey turned out to be a shadow of his former self.

-Jason "show how much good or bad luck can make a GM look smart or stupid" Evans


Ooops... he's not leaving the Cs. According to the Boston Herald: (https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2841431-celtics-rumors-al-horford-discussing-new-3-year-contract-if-he-declines-option)
"Al Horford could remain with the Boston Celtics even if he declines his $30.1 million player option for 2019-20.

According to Steve Bulpett of the Boston Herald, "the sides have been discussing a plan where he comes in at a lower number next season and gets two more years tacked on in a new deal."


This makes a lot of sense. My first reaction to your original post was "is someone really going to pay a 33 year old PF more than 30 mil?

[CDu]

This makes a lot of sense. My first reaction to your original post was "is someone really going to pay a 33 year old PF more than 30 mil?

Yeah, and from Boston's perspective it is all they can really hope for. They're at the point cap-wise where they can't get a player of his caliber (or even close) back in free agency. A trimmed down but longer-term deal would help keep them south of the luxury tax with Rozier's salary rising (presumably they will re-sign either Rozier or Irving, with Rozier being the fallback if/when Irving leaves).

A lineup of Rozier, Smart, Brown, Tatum, and Horford with Hayward, Theis, Baynes, and whatever they can get with their 3 mid-1st picks Thursday is still a top-tier Eastern Conference team. Not a juggernaut, but a top-4 in the East with a decent chance at the Finals.

[jimsumner]

According to the Charlotte media, the Lakers are going to go hard after Kemba Walker.

https://www.charlotteobserver.com/sports/charlotte-hornets/article231639258.html

[UrinalCake]

Coming into the season the Celtics had just barely missed the Finals despite two starters being out, they had the best young coach in the league, several promising young players, a ton of trade assets to potentially make a mid-season run at Anthony Davis, and Kyrie publicly announced that he wanted to re-sign after the season. They were pretty much in basketball nirvana. Their fall from being in an absolute ideal situation to their season distintegrating has been a real kick to the crotch. I hate to say it but it reminds me of Duke’s 2016-2017 season in terms of high expectations that were subsequently crushed.

[JasonEvans]

I just read the details of the draft picks the Pelicans got from the Lakers. Wow... did they ever get haul from Rob Pelinka.

The Pelicans get:


No. 4 pick in 2019
Nothing in 2020 when the Lakers are likely to be really good
2021 first-round pick (top-8 protected). Becomes unprotected 2022 pick if it does not convey in 2021, but it seems like the Lakers will still be good in 2021
Right to swap first-round picks in 2023 (so if Lakers have higher pick in draft, Pelicans can swap spots)
2024 unprotected first-round pick, with the option to defer unprotected pick to 2025


Those 2 picks in 2023 and 2025 could be super valuable. Lebron will be 38-40 at that point and it is not impossible to imagine that the Lakers will be in serious decline at that point.

-Jason "David Griffin and Trajan Langdon may have gotten away with murder in this trade... we won't know for sure for a few years but it feels like it" Evans

[JasonEvans]

I hate to say it but it reminds me of Duke’s 2016-2017 season in terms of high expectations that were subsequently crushed.

At least we got a glorious four days in early March out of it. Not sure the Celtics ever had a really good moment where it all felt like it was falling in place in the past season.

[SoCalDukeFan]

Need to fill out the team. Kemba would be great, and LeBron, Davis, Kuzma and Walker would be four really really good players.

But they can't play all 48 minutes.

Shooter? JJ maybe.

I don't follow the Lakers that closely. They generally have drafted well but their non super star free agent pick ups have not been very good.

SoCal

[CDu]

Need to fill out the team. Kemba would be great, and LeBron, Davis, Kuzma and Walker would be four really really good players.

But they can't play all 48 minutes.

Shooter? JJ maybe.

I don't follow the Lakers that closely. They generally have drafted well but their non super star free agent pick ups have not been very good.

SoCal

The Lakers will almost certainly not have the cap space to sign Walker or any of the top free agents, unless those guys want to take a heavy discount or somehow convince New Orleans to weight until the end of the month to make the trade (that's when the #4 pick could be traded after being signed). Neither of which seem overly likely.

[JNort]

Minnesota Timberwolves are aggressively seeking to trade Andrew Wiggins according to multiple sources via Twitter. I only say because the Hornets are listed as suitors.

[JasonEvans]

Minnesota Timberwolves are aggressively seeking to trade Andrew Wiggins according to multiple sources via Twitter. I only say because the Hornets are listed as suitors.

For Sale: 6-8 forward who is a very inefficient scorer. Does not play hard on defense nor does he fight for rebounds. A bit of a locker room cancer who has never played on a club that was very successful. He is a pretty good dunker. Has 4 years and $122 million left on his contract.

-Jason "I'm sure there are offers just pouring in for him... " Evans

[BD80]

The Lakers will almost certainly not have the cap space to sign Walker or any of the top free agents, unless those guys want to take a heavy discount or somehow convince New Orleans to weight until the end of the month to make the trade (that's when the #4 pick could be traded after being signed). Neither of which seem overly likely.

This was the true pound of flesh extracted in the deal, the July 6 effective date.

What else will the Lakes have to throw in to postpone the effective date of the trade? They NEED that cap space to sign another All-star level player to team with LBJ to make this deal worthwhile and to make the most of the few years LBJ has left. If they don't get the space this year, can they create it next year? Waiting to resign AD until after they sign other free-agents?

[budwom]

For Sale: 6-8 forward who is a very inefficient scorer. Does not play hard on defense nor does he fight for rebounds. A bit of a locker room cancer who has never played on a club that was very successful. He is a pretty good dunker. Has 4 years and $122 million left on his contract.

-Jason "I'm sure there are offers just pouring in for him... " Evans

So true...and yet no doubt someone will be willing to take him...I'd start with the Nix...Wiggins won't even be the best Canadian in the league next year...

[UrinalCake]

For Sale: 6-8 forward who is a very inefficient scorer. Does not play hard on defense nor does he fight for rebounds. A bit of a locker room cancer who has never played on a club that was very successful. He is a pretty good dunker. Has 4 years and $122 million left on his contract.

To be fair, the player most commonly linked to Wiggins is Jabari Parker, as they came out the same year. And a lot of the above also applies to Jabari, minus the locker room cancer and bloated contract.

[JasonEvans]

To be fair, the player most commonly linked to Wiggins is Jabari Parker, as they came out the same year. And a lot of the above also applies to Jabari, minus the locker room cancer and bloated contract.

In the modern NBA, it is that contract that may be the worst of the sins.

[cato]

To be fair, the player most commonly linked to Wiggins is Jabari Parker, as they came out the same year. And a lot of the above also applies to Jabari, minus the locker room cancer and bloated contract.

I was never sold on Wiggins being a better prospect than Parker, and thought the Cavs were smart to get Love instead of trying to win with Wiggins.

But I never would have guessed that Embiid would be so much better than both Wiggins and Parker.

[subzero02]

Prince Harry just declined his one year $25.1 million player option with the Kings... he is now an unrestricted free agent.

[UrinalCake]

Prince Harry just declined his one year $25.1 million player option with the Kings... he is now an unrestricted free agent.

Let’s hope he regains his form as 2016 NBA Finals MVP for the Cleveland Cavaliers!

[BD80]

Prince Harry just declined his one year $25.1 million player option with the Kings... he is now an unrestricted free agent.

Eight years ago, would anyone have imagined Harry would be turning down $25 mil + for a year?

[JNort]

I just read the details of the draft picks the Pelicans got from the Lakers. Wow... did they ever get haul from Rob Pelinka.

The Pelicans get:


No. 4 pick in 2019
Nothing in 2020 when the Lakers are likely to be really good
2021 first-round pick (top-8 protected). Becomes unprotected 2022 pick if it does not convey in 2021, but it seems like the Lakers will still be good in 2021
Right to swap first-round picks in 2023 (so if Lakers have higher pick in draft, Pelicans can swap spots)
2024 unprotected first-round pick, with the option to defer unprotected pick to 2025


Those 2 picks in 2023 and 2025 could be super valuable. Lebron will be 38-40 at that point and it is not impossible to imagine that the Lakers will be in serious decline at that point.

-Jason "David Griffin and Trajan Langdon may have gotten away with murder in this trade... we won't know for sure for a few years but it feels like it" Evans

Also we could be looking at the big draft in 2022 when high school kids will be allowed to jump to the NBA.

[UrinalCake]

Also we could be looking at the big draft in 2022 when high school kids will be allowed to jump to the NBA.

I just looked it up and the 2021 pick is REVERSE protected, which means unless the Lakers are really bad it will carry over to 2022. Picks in that “double draft” are considered really really valuable. The Pelicans made out like thieves in this trade, there’s now way any other team was going to offer close to this much.

[superdave]

The Lakers will almost certainly not have the cap space to sign Walker or any of the top free agents, unless those guys want to take a heavy discount or somehow convince New Orleans to weight until the end of the month to make the trade (that's when the #4 pick could be traded after being signed). Neither of which seem overly likely.

The Lakers should try to get Ariza, Collison, Danny Green and other vets who are still really good but dont need a whole lot of help fitting in beside Lebron.

[JasonEvans]

Woj bomb...

Al Horford is not close to a deal with the Celtics and is going to look to sign with some other team, likely a three or four year deal. I wonder how much he wants... $20-25 mil per season?

Jason “that is right in line with what the Lakers will have available “ Evans

[JasonEvans]

I just looked it up and the 2021 pick is REVERSE protected, which means unless the Lakers are really bad it will carry over to 2022. Picks in that “double draft” are considered really really valuable.

Where did you see this? What is the reverse protection on it.

[CDu]

Woj bomb...

Al Horford is not close to a deal with the Celtics and is going to look to sign with some other team, likely a three or four year deal. I wonder how much he wants... $20-25 mil per season?

Jason “that is right in line with what the Lakers will have available “ Evans

He doesn’t make sense for the Lakers. All they have are bigs, they need guards and shooters.

That said, if Horford and Irving leave, that is a huge blow for the Celtics.

[UrinalCake]

Where did you see this? What is the reverse protection on it.

Here's a link (https://www.slamonline.com/nba/everything-you-need-to-know-about-the-draft-picks-in-the-ad-trade/).

"As Tania Ganguli of The Los Angeles Times reports, the trade comes with reverse protection on that 2021 first-rounder,..."


So if it's in the top 8 then the Pelicans keep it, otherwise the Lakers keep it and the Pelicans get an unprotected 2022 pick.

I guess I was doing the math wrong in my head in terms of years; if Davis bolts after this coming season when he is a free agent then the Lakers could be in rebuilding/tank mode in 2020-2021, which means they could wind up with a top-8 pick in the 2021 draft. But I still think that's unlikely. I maintain my position that the Lakers gave up too much.

[Steven43]

Al Horford is leaving Boston. And now it all comes crashing down for the Celtics. I don’t understand how it turned so bad so quickly. It’s really shocking to watch it happen piece by piece.

First, Jayson Tatum started saying he would be fine with potentially being the face of the New Orleans Pelicans. Then Anthony Davis made it clear he didn’t want to come to Boston. Then Horford jumped ship. Next will be Kyrie. As a lifelong Celtics fan this is very disheartening.

[arnie]

He doesn’t make sense for the Lakers. All they have are bigs, they need guards and shooters.

That said, if Horford and Irving leave, that is a huge blow for the Celtics.

It’s all part of the master plan- Brad Stevens available when K retires.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

It’s all part of the master plan- Brad Stevens available when K retires.

It is known, Khaleesi.

[ice-9]

Kyrie did say he would re-sign if Boston wanted him. Boston made it clear it did not want him. Some of the online comments are vicious, hard to read if I were Kyrie and Kyrie is the type to read them.

[ice-9]

He's a good coach, but is he a good recruiter?

[Steven43]

He doesn’t make sense for the Lakers. All they have are bigs, they need guards and shooters.
I don’t know. I think Horford makes a lot of sense for the Lakers. He could play center, freeing up Anthony Davis to play PF. He is a career 37% 3-pt shooter. Pretty darn good if you ask me. And he does all of the dirty work and inglorious things — defense, rebounding, etc, — that are so important to a winning team. Additionally, he is an unselfish, modest, team-first guy.

Now that I think about it Horford be an ideal fit for the Lakers. Gosh, I hope they don’t get him. If I were the them I would strongly consider going after Horford first and then Brook Lopez (if Horford declines).

[Steven43]

Kyrie did say he would re-sign if Boston wanted him. Boston made it clear it did not want him. Some of the online comments are vicious, hard to read if I were Kyrie and Kyrie is the type to read them.

Where are you reading negative comments about Kyrie? Just curious.

[Steven43]

He's a good coach, but is he a good recruiter?
I think the Duke brand is so thoroughly established as the gold standard of college basketball that Brad Stevens would get good recruits without hardly trying. Besides, he took Butler — BUTLER! — to two straight NCAA tournament Finals, and came within an inch or so (the Hayward desperation three that just barely missed) of beating Duke in the 2010 National Championship game.

I cannot think of a better guy to coach Duke after K retires. However, I don’t really wish to go down this rabbit hole yet again. I probably shouldn’t have said anything. But I can’t resist.

[BD80]

It’s all part of the master plan- Brad Stevens available when K retires.

Wow! So Tatum and Irving were in on this all along? The Brotherhood is STRONG!

[BD80]

This was the true pound of flesh extracted in the deal, the July 6 effective date.

What else will the Lakes have to throw in to postpone the effective date of the trade? They NEED that cap space to sign another All-star level player to team with LBJ to make this deal worthwhile and to make the most of the few years LBJ has left. If they don't get the space this year, can they create it next year? Waiting to resign AD until after they sign other free-agents?

Stage 2 of the trade under way:

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/anthony-davis-trade-update-lakers-trying-to-rework-deal-with-pelicans-to-open-max-salary-slot/


According to Wojnarowski, the deal will be completed on July 6, when the moratorium lifts. Assuming that's the case, the Lakers will have $23.7 million in cap space, which is not enough for a max deal. If the Pelicans are for some reason willing to wait until July 30 to finalize the trade, then the Lakers will have $32.5 million in cap space, which would be enough to go after a free agent who wants the max.

[ice-9]

Look in the comments section of Kyrie articles. Friends from Boston. They really don't like him. I get why, but in return Kyrie doesn't have to like them back.

[Steven43]

Look in the comments section of Kyrie articles. Friends from Boston. They really don't like him. I get why, but in return Kyrie doesn't have to like them back.
Bill Simmons helped turn a lot of Celtics fans against Kyrie. It’s amazing how much one guy with a prominent platform from which to express his views can affect people’s perceptions.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Bill Simmons helped turn a lot of Celtics fans against Kyrie. It’s amazing how much one guy with a prominent platform from which to express his views can affect people’s perceptions.

It's not just Simmons. Most ESPN talking heads have determined that Kyrie is "not a leader." Also, he can't be "the guy" on a championship team.
I think it is too early to determine any of these things, but the Celtics experiment certainly seems not to have worked.

[budwom]

It's not just Simmons. Most ESPN talking heads have determined that Kyrie is "not a leader." Also, he can't be "the guy" on a championship team.
I think it is too early to determine any of these things, but the Celtics experiment certainly seems not to have worked.

Yes, forget the notion that others are responsible for the anti Kyrie talk...I loved watching him early in the season, but as the season wore on, Kyrie just became a total jerk, as much as it pains me to say it. He really
behaved badly, on a good team with a great coach and great organization...Everyone was on the Kyrie bandwagon early until he methodically pushed them off (including me)...really a poor showing.

Hopefully he learns from this.

[Indoor66]

Yes, forget the notion that others are responsible for the anti Kyrie talk...I loved watching him early in the season, but as the season wore on, Kyrie just became a total jerk, as much as it pains me to say it. He really
behaved badly, on a good team with a great coach and great organization...Everyone was on the Kyrie bandwagon early until he methodically pushed them off (including me)...really a poor showing.

Hopefully he learns from this.

The whole Celtics situation has become a dumpster fire. Why do we assume that the coach has no cause/effect role in this?

[flyingdutchdevil]

Yes, forget the notion that others are responsible for the anti Kyrie talk...I loved watching him early in the season, but as the season wore on, Kyrie just became a total jerk, as much as it pains me to say it. He really
behaved badly, on a good team with a great coach and great organization...Everyone was on the Kyrie bandwagon early until he methodically pushed them off (including me)...really a poor showing.

Hopefully he learns from this.

Couldn’t agree more. There were a lot of Celtic issues; Kylie was undoubtedly #1. He is a phenomenal player with bad leadership skills and an even worse attitude.

Hope we finds what he’s looking for, but Kyrie doesn’t seem to be the kind of guy who is just content.

[subzero02]

Yes, forget the notion that others are responsible for the anti Kyrie talk...I loved watching him early in the season, but as the season wore on, Kyrie just became a total jerk, as much as it pains me to say it. He really
behaved badly, on a good team with a great coach and great organization...Everyone was on the Kyrie bandwagon early until he methodically pushed them off (including me)...really a poor showing.

Hopefully he learns from this.

Kyrie has made himself an easy target for criticism but he's shouldering too much of the blame from the Boston fanbase. None of us were in the locker room but I'd venture to wager that the bitterness from players who had more prominent roles during last year's playoff run was a major contributing factor in the Celtics' shortcomings. Kyrie's off court behavior likely added fuel to the fire. Judging from the season results and the off season turmoil, it appears that Stevens handled the situation poorly and deserves a good amount of blame as well.

[CDu]

Kyrie has made himself an easy target for criticism but he's shouldering too much of the blame from the Boston fanbase. None of us were in the locker room but I'd venture to wager that the bitterness from players who had more prominent roles during last year's playoff run was a major contributing factor in the Celtics' shortcomings. Kyrie's off court behavior likely added fuel to the fire. Judging from the season results and the off season turmoil, it appears that Stevens handled the situation poorly and deserves a good amount of blame as well.

I agree that it is fair to say there is blame to go around. But, when you are the face of the franchise, the blame lies mostly with you. Kyrie wanted to be the man and the leader, but with that comes the responsibility/blame when things don't go well. Things didn't go well, and he apparently was the cause of some of the friction within the locker room. As the star, that's going to get you a hefty share of the blame.

Now, I'm definitely not going to write Irving off as a superstar and team leader forever. He's still in the early part of his prime, and Boston was his first real opportunity to lead a contending team. Hopefully he can learn from this and do a better job at his next stop (assuming he does leave for Brooklyn or New York or LA). But I think he's probably getting pretty close to the appropriate amount of the blame for this season.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

The whole Celtics situation has become a dumpster fire. Why do we assume that the coach has no cause/effect role in this?

Duh. Stevens is K 2.0 and is infallible.

/sarcasm
//mostly

[CDu]

Duh. Stevens is K 2.0 and is infallible.

/sarcasm
//mostly

Yeah, I'd put the blame primarily on Irving (poor/anti leadership) and Stevens (poor job of coaching and managing the egos in the locker room).

Seems like that may be a weakness for Stevens - managing egos. His success has largely (entirely?) been when he's had blue-collar, no-nonsense, overachiever type teams that buy in. It can require a much different skill set managing a team with superstar talent and superstar egos.

I don't think Phil Jackson could do what Stevens did in his early Boston years or what Stevens did at Butler. Conversely, I'm not sure Stevens would be well-suited to do what Jackson did in Chicago or LA.

[flyingdutchdevil]

I agree that it is fair to say there is blame to go around. But, when you are the face of the franchise, the blame lies mostly with you. Kyrie wanted to be the man and the leader, but with that comes the responsibility/blame when things don't go well. Things didn't go well, and he apparently was the cause of some of the friction within the locker room. As the star, that's going to get you a hefty share of the blame.

Now, I'm definitely not going to write Irving off as a superstar and team leader forever. He's still in the early part of his prime, and Boston was his first real opportunity to lead a contending team. Hopefully he can learn from this and do a better job at his next stop (assuming he does leave for Brooklyn or New York or LA). But I think he's probably getting pretty close to the appropriate amount of the blame for this season.

The only issue I have with this post is Kyrie is a superstar. For me, a superstar has nothing to do with maturity nor leadership. I has to do with talent and popularity. And Kyrie is arguably one of the most popular players in the league (amongst fans, not other players). This article is two years old, but it discusses who Kyries are the second best selling bball shoe: https://www.forbes.com/sites/kurtbadenhausen/2017/05/04/lebron-kyrie-have-the-best-selling-signature-sneakers-among-nba-players/amp/

I honestly have my doubts with Kyrie as a leader. As long as he continues being weird and calling out teammates, it'll be challenging for him to be seen as a leader. And maybe he never wants to or will be. I mean, look at Kevin Durant. The dude is the top talent on a top 3 team but no one would call him a leader.

[flyingdutchdevil]

Yeah, I'd put the blame primarily on Irving (poor/anti leadership) and Stevens (poor job of coaching and managing the egos in the locker room).

Seems like that may be a weakness for Stevens - managing egos. His success has largely (entirely?) been when he's had blue-collar, no-nonsense, overachiever type teams that buy in. It can require a much different skill set managing a team with superstar talent and superstar egos.

I don't think Phil Jackson could do what Stevens did in his early Boston years or what Stevens did at Butler. Conversely, I'm not sure Stevens would be well-suited to do what Jackson did in Chicago or LA.

Stevens deserves a ton of blame. Rozier had this scathing interview where he said Stevens wanted to run everything through Kyrie and Hayward. Sure, that makes sense if these two players are head-and-shoulders above the rest of the team, but Horford, Tatum, and Brown are all really good players.

[CDu]

The only issue I have with this post is Kyrie is a superstar. For me, a superstar has nothing to do with maturity nor leadership. I has to do with talent and popularity. And Kyrie is arguably one of the most popular players in the league (amongst fans, not other players). This article is two years old, but it discusses who Kyries are the second best selling bball shoe: https://www.forbes.com/sites/kurtbadenhausen/2017/05/04/lebron-kyrie-have-the-best-selling-signature-sneakers-among-nba-players/amp/

I honestly have my doubts with Kyrie as a leader. As long as he continues being weird and calling out teammates, it'll be challenging for him to be seen as a leader. And maybe he never wants to or will be. I mean, look at Kevin Durant. The dude is the top talent on a top 3 team but no one would call him a leader.

I have no disagreement with this whatsoever. Kyrie is definitely a superstar, didn't mean to imply otherwise. I was more focusing on the leader/face of the franchise role.

It definitely seems like Irving is just a weird dude, a "try too hard to look intellectual" type of guy. And he admittedly is moody. You're right that neither the weirdness nor the moodiness are things that work well in a leadership role. So it may very well turn out that - like KD - leadership is never a strongsuit. I'm just saying that sometimes a guy can change with time and experience.

Would the irony of ironies be for Irving to go join the Lakers with LeBron and AD? This would hinge on two of the following three happening: him taking a paycut, AD waiving his trade kicker, and the Lakers finding salary dumps for their 3 fringe roster guys. But that would seem an almost perfect fit on the basketball court and would take all the leadership pressure off. Not that I think this would happen at all. More likely that he'd try to get to the Clippers or Brooklyn/Knicks. But an entertaining thought experiment.

[flyingdutchdevil]

I have no disagreement with this whatsoever. Kyrie is definitely a superstar, didn't mean to imply otherwise. I was more focusing on the leader/face of the franchise role.

It definitely seems like Irving is just a weird dude, a "try too hard to look intellectual" type of guy. And he admittedly is moody. You're right that neither the weirdness nor the moodiness are things that work well in a leadership role. So it may very well turn out that - like KD - leadership is never a strongsuit. I'm just saying that sometimes a guy can change with time and experience.

Would the irony of ironies be for Irving to go join the Lakers with LeBron and AD? This would hinge on two of the following three happening: him taking a paycut, AD waiving his trade kicker, and the Lakers finding salary dumps for their 3 fringe roster guys. But that would seem an almost perfect fit on the basketball court and would take all the leadership pressure off. Not that I think this would happen at all. More likely that he'd try to get to the Clippers or Brooklyn/Knicks. But an entertaining thought experiment.

To me, this means Kyrie accepts that he isn't a leader and doesn't desire to become one. Which, like KD, is completely fine. But his whole "I want out of Cleveland so I can lead a team" and his whole marketing image in Boston goes out the door.

I think Kyrie goes to the Nets: 1) he can start over with a new team, 2) NJ is home, and the Nets are more New Jersey than any other team, 3) he can once again try to "lead" a team. To me, the issue is his relationship with D'Angelo Russell. A really good player on the court, Russell also has a few maturity issues. I'd give it <18 months before either Russell or Kyrie ask for a trade.

[CDu]

To me, this means Kyrie accepts that he isn't a leader and doesn't desire to become one. Which, like KD, is completely fine. But his whole "I want out of Cleveland so I can lead a team" and his whole marketing image in Boston goes out the door.

I think Kyrie goes to the Nets: 1) he can start over with a new team, 2) NJ is home, and the Nets are more New Jersey than any other team, 3) he can once again try to "lead" a team. To me, the issue is his relationship with D'Angelo Russell. A really good player on the court, Russell also has a few maturity issues. I'd give it <18 months before either Russell or Kyrie ask for a trade.

Yes, I also think Brooklyn is the most likely destination. And I doubt Kyrie would swallow the humble pie and become the third-fiddle (even temporarily, as in the not-too-distant future it would be his and AD's team). It was just a fun thought exercise.

[English]

To me, this means Kyrie accepts that he isn't a leader and doesn't desire to become one. Which, like KD, is completely fine. But his whole "I want out of Cleveland so I can lead a team" and his whole marketing image in Boston goes out the door.

I think Kyrie goes to the Nets: 1) he can start over with a new team, 2) NJ is home, and the Nets are more New Jersey than any other team, 3) he can once again try to "lead" a team. To me, the issue is his relationship with D'Angelo Russell. A really good player on the court, Russell also has a few maturity issues. I'd give it <18 months before either Russell or Kyrie ask for a trade.

I think it's commonly accepted knowledge among NBA analysts that Kyrie to the Nets (highly likely) would mean that Russell is moving on.

In other news, Khris Middleton has declined his player option with the Bucks, but is working with the team to reach a long-term deal. The black pigeon is doing the same with the Kings after declining his option. Of course, that's what was the initial plan with the C's and Horford, so sometimes those plans change.

ETA: A backcourt with Kyrie and Russell would be comically bad on defense. I kind of want to see it. FWIW (probably not much), the few Nets fans I know all prefer Kyrie stay out of Brooklyn.

[Bay Area Duke Fan]

Bill Simmons helped turn a lot of Celtics fans against Kyrie. It’s amazing how much one guy with a prominent platform from which to express his views can affect people’s perceptions.

Not just in sports.

[JasonEvans]

Breaking news:

Grayson Allen has been traded to Memphis. Part of a deal to get Mike Conley Jr to Utah.

Korver, Crowder, and the #23 pick also heading to Memphis.

[scottdude8]

Breaking news:

Grayson Allen has been traded to Memphis. Part of a deal to get Mike Conley Jr to Utah.

Korver, Crowder, and the #23 pick also heading to Memphis.

Damn, beat me to it by moments! ;)

Sort of odd for Utah to target Conley since Donovan Mitchell is a PG, unless they want to put him off the ball with a pass first PG in Conley. This seems like a great deal for Memphis though, getting solid young players and a couple of picks for a guy they needed to get rid of since they aren't going to compete now, not to mention they're getting Ja Morant. Hopefully this gives Grayson the opportunity to play right away (possibly alongside Morant!) for a slightly worse team.

[English]

Breaking news:

Grayson Allen has been traded to Memphis. Part of a deal to get Mike Conley Jr to Utah.

Korver, Crowder, and the #23 pick also heading to Memphis.

The deal also includes a future first rounder.


Damn, beat me to it by moments! ;)

Sort of odd for Utah to target Conley since Donovan Mitchell is a PG, unless they want to put him off the ball with a pass first PG in Conley. This seems like a great deal for Memphis though, getting solid young players and a couple of picks for a guy they needed to get rid of since they aren't going to compete now, not to mention they're getting Ja Morant. Hopefully this gives Grayson the opportunity to play right away (possibly alongside Morant!) for a slightly worse team.

LOLz. The Grizz are going to be slightly worse than the Jazz like the Washington Generals were slightly worse than the Globetrotters.

[CDu]

Damn, beat me to it by moments! ;)

Sort of odd for Utah to target Conley since Donovan Mitchell is a PG, unless they want to put him off the ball with a pass first PG in Conley. This seems like a great deal for Memphis though, getting solid young players and a couple of picks for a guy they needed to get rid of since they aren't going to compete now, not to mention they're getting Ja Morant. Hopefully this gives Grayson the opportunity to play right away (possibly alongside Morant!) for a slightly worse team.

Mitchell isn't a PG at all. He's averaged 3.7 assists and 4.2 assists per game in his two seasons, with 2.7 turnovers and 2.8 turnovers per game.

The Jazz's PG the last two years was Ricky Rubio. Mitchell was and is their SG.

[flyingdutchdevil]

Breaking news:

Grayson Allen has been traded to Memphis. Part of a deal to get Mike Conley Jr to Utah.

Korver, Crowder, and the #23 pick also heading to Memphis.

Confirms Grizz are drafting Morant with the #2 pick.

[JasonEvans]

Sort of odd for Utah to target Conley since Donovan Mitchell is a PG, unless they want to put him off the ball with a pass first PG in Conley.

I don't see Mitchell as a PG at all. I mean, he played alongside Ricky Rubio last season. Sure, Mitchell is 6-3, which is a little short for a 2-guard, but Mitchell has done fine in that role thus far.

As for Grayson on Memphis, a lot depends on what they do with Avery Bradley. His contract is only partially guaranteed ($2 mil of the $12 mil he is owed) and if Memphis is in tank/rebuild mode (they are) then keeping Bradley on an expiring deal doesn't make much sense. They've also got CJ Miles on an expiring contract and that is about it for SGs. I suspect they will at least give Grayson decent rotation minutes as a way of seeing how he develops.

-Jason "outside shooting... Grayson needs to get his 3-pointer to 35%+ or he will likely never be a significant player for a NBA team" Evans

[howardlander]

Confirms Grizz are drafting Morant with the #2 pick.

Probably. I did hear a rumor/suggestion (can't remember where) about the Pelicans offering the 4 pick and Lonzo to Memphis for the 2 pick so the Pelicans could grab R.J.. Then Memphis would have a point guard and they could still pick 4. Didn't really seem likely to me, but I guess it's still possible.

[brlftz]

Confirms Grizz are drafting Morant with the #2 pick.

Yeah I'm kind of bummed, it takes a lot of the drama out of the next two days. (hoping those are some famous last words. I like draft drama).

[JasonEvans]

Probably. I did hear a rumor/suggestion (can't remember where) about the Pelicans offering the 4 pick and Lonzo to Memphis for the 2 pick so the Pelicans could grab R.J.. Then Memphis would have a point guard and they could still pick 4. Didn't really seem likely to me, but I guess it's still possible.

Memphis would also be assured of getting Garland with the #4... and it is not impossible to imagine that some folks might value him almost as high as Morant.

[budwom]

ooh, wonder what Conley thinks of this....SLC ain't for everyone. Good team attributes, but socially a bit weird for many.

[howardlander]

Memphis would also be assured of getting Garland with the #4... and it is not impossible to imagine that some folks might value him almost as high as Morant.

Yep. I've also heard that the Knicks are having a workout with Garland, so it's possible that RJ would be there for New Orleans and they could still keep Lonzo. Lot's of uncertainty there. Do the Pelicans really want Lonzo? Would Williamson, Ingram and Barret really all work together? But if I was a N.O. fan I think I'd be excited regardless.

[scottdude8]

Yep. I've also heard that the Knicks are having a workout with Garland, so it's possible that RJ would be there for New Orleans and they could still keep Lonzo. Lot's of uncertainty there. Do the Pelicans really want Lonzo? Would Williamson, Ingram and Barret really all work together? But if I was a N.O. fan I think I'd be excited regardless.

Yeah there's been buzz the last couple days that both the Grizz and Knicks are considering Garland seriously. Personally I think that's all counter-intelligence "noise" drummed up in an attempt to force the hand of a team that might be dead set on Garland to overpay to get to 2 or 3.

[scottdude8]

According to ESPN the Lakers are also trying to make moves to get enough space for another "max" player. This paragraph just stunned me and summed up the crazy nature of the modern, star-driven NBA:

The Lakers were engaging additional teams on Tuesday to take on the contracts of three of the remaining five players on the team's roster --- Mo Wagner, Isaac Bonga and Jemerrio Jones -- league sources said. Kyle Kuzma and LeBron James are the only other two Lakers remaining on the team's end-of-season roster.

[Truth&Justise]

Breaking news:

Grayson Allen has been traded to Memphis. Part of a deal to get Mike Conley Jr to Utah.

Korver, Crowder, and the #23 pick also heading to Memphis.

Also heading to Memphis: a future jazz 1st round pick. It's protected for 2020 and 2021 and will only convey if it's #8-14 in either year. The Jazz won 50 games last year and just added Mike Conley, so it's unlikely that they're in the lottery.

But in 2022 it's only protected top 1-6. This will follow a season where Conley, Donovan Mitchell and Rudy Gobert will be free agents, and who knows if Jazz will still be a top team. If Utah ends up in the lottery it could be a huge asset for Memphis, right as they are hitting their stride. Very shrewd to get that second pick on a timeline favorable to Memphis.

[Acymetric]

Stevens deserves a ton of blame. Rozier had this scathing interview where he said Stevens wanted to run everything through Kyrie and Hayward. Sure, that makes sense if these two players are head-and-shoulders above the rest of the team, but Horford, Tatum, and Brown are all really good players.

I don't recall hearing much of this from the media (I may have missed it), but it seemed pretty obvious all season that the connection Stevens/Hayward connection and the way it clearly influenced the gameplan/playing time allocation hurt the Celtics about as much as anything else this past season.

[dball]

ooh, wonder what Conley thinks of this...SLC ain't for everyone. Good team attributes, but socially a bit weird for many.

According to the Conley's tweet after the trade, he's looking forward to "the city of Utah".

[budwom]

According to the Conley's tweet after the trade, he's looking forward to "the city of Utah".

Ha, it's just as well...

[duke74]

Confirms Grizz are drafting Morant with the #2 pick.

So unless my Knicks screw up (Garland...trade down in a three man draft...really?), RJ will be in MSG.

K all over NY papers today talking RJ up as a star in NY.

https://nypost.com/2019/06/19/mike-krzyzewski-rj-barrett-could-be-a-star-for-knicks/?utm_campaign=iosapp&utm_source=pasteboard_app

[Neals384]

ooh, wonder what Conley thinks of this...SLC ain't for everyone. Good team attributes, but socially a bit weird for many.

Conley is a Christian, 31, married and a father. SLC may be a great fit for him and family.

[Neals384]

For Sale: 6-8 forward who is a very inefficient scorer. Does not play hard on defense nor does he fight for rebounds. A bit of a locker room cancer who has never played on a club that was very successful. He is a pretty good dunker. Has 4 years and $122 million left on his contract.

-Jason "I'm sure there are offers just pouring in for him... " Evans

Cmon, Jason, tell us what you really think:cool:

[Bay Area Duke Fan]

According to the Conley's tweet after the trade, he's looking forward to "the city of Utah".

Did he take Geography 101 at tOSU ?

[flyingdutchdevil]

So unless my Knicks screw up (Garland...trade down in a three man draft...really?), RJ will be in MSG.

K all over NY papers today talking RJ up as a star in NY.

https://nypost.com/2019/06/19/mike-krzyzewski-rj-barrett-could-be-a-star-for-knicks/?utm_campaign=iosapp&utm_source=pasteboard_app

God I hope so. As a Celtics fan, I'm happy to see the Knicks as a perennial dumpster fire. However, it's really sad seeing this year after year. My enemy deserves a little happiness.

[BigZ]

Kyrie leaving Boston is great for Tatum. Kyrie is a great player but kind of weirdo and I think his personality didn’t mesh with the team. They were better the year before when Kyrie got hurt. As good as Kyrie is he can’t be the best player on a championship team.

[TruBlu]

According to the Conley's tweet after the trade, he's looking forward to "the city of Utah".

Does he understand that he doesn’t need a passport?

[JetpackJesus]

God I hope so. As a Celtics fan, I'm happy to see the Knicks as a perennial dumpster fire. However, it's really sad seeing this year after year. My enemy deserves a little happiness.

Not if that enemy is uNC.

[duke74]

God I hope so. As a Celtics fan, I'm happy to see the Knicks as a perennial dumpster fire. However, it's really sad seeing this year after year. My enemy deserves a little happiness.

Think you have your own issues this offseason. 😉 We’re used to it here.

[ice-9]

Kyrie leaving Boston is great for Tatum. Kyrie is a great player but kind of weirdo and I think his personality didn’t mesh with the team. They were better the year before when Kyrie got hurt. As good as Kyrie is he can’t be the best player on a championship team.

In all my years of playing (admittedly lousy) basketball I don't ever recall caring about my teammate's personality or beliefs about flat earth. Only if they can ball or not. Maybe in the NBA it's different because they have a lot of candid conversations during timeouts, and a weird personality would distract teammates to the point of playing badly.

[MaxAMillion]

In all my years of playing (admittedly lousy) basketball I don't ever recall caring about my teammate's personality or beliefs about flat earth. Only if they can ball or not. Maybe in the NBA it's different because they have a lot of candid conversations during timeouts, and a weird personality would distract teammates to the point of playing badly.

Irving admitted at one point during the season that he needed to change his attitude. He apparently is extremely moody and it can impact the team if your teammates have no idea what Kyrie is showing up from day to day. One day you are upbeat and willing to interact with everyone on and off the court, and the next day you can't be bothered. Hopefully Irving will grow out of a lot of this because he is extremely talented.

[BigZ]

This salary cap talk in tv is confusing. The Lakers can get more cap room to sign a Max player at 30m but how would they sign the rat of the team?

[Steven43]

Stevens deserves a ton of blame. Rozier had this scathing interview where he said Stevens wanted to run everything through Kyrie and Hayward. Sure, that makes sense if these two players are head-and-shoulders above the rest of the team, but Horford, Tatum, and Brown are all really good players.

Rozier is not anyone to take too seriously. That’s the first thing. Second, for what exactly is he supposedly to be blamed? The Celtics won their first round playoff series quite easily, then lost to the team that had the best record in the NBA.

And it’s one heck of a challenge to deal with a broken former star (Hayward) who had lost his confidence after coming off a catastrophic injury. Not to mention dealing with a space cadet like Kyrie who was clearly the main cause in fracturing team chemistry. What other coach had to deal with two situations like this at the same time?

Brad Stevens is an excellent coach and a man of great character and integrity. Any team would be lucky to have him.

[Neals384]

I'm not sure why. There are higher concentrations of Christian denominations in the Memphis area, than can be found in Salt Lake City.

I didn't mean to imply SLC > Memphis. Never been to Memphis and have no beef with it. I was really thinking at his age and as a family man, he might not have the same urge to live in a party town like, say, Miami or LA. Or even New Orleans.

[UrinalCake]

This salary cap talk in tv is confusing. The Lakers can get more cap room to sign a Max player at 30m but how would they sign the [rest] of the team?

You’re always allowed to add a minimum salary player, even if you’re at/over the cap. Those players are like freebies. So the Lakers are basically trying to clear the entire roster except for LeBron, AD and Kuzma (whom they consider indispensable), then they can sign their third max player to put them at the cap, then they can fill out the rest of the roster with minimum salary players. Similar to what Miami did when they signed their big three; other veterans like Ray Allen were willing to come at minimum salary for the chance to chase a ring.

[JasonEvans]

The Bucks have traded (https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/27013045/bucks-trading-snell-pistons-leuer) Tony Snell (and his 2 years, $23 mil of salary) and the #30 pick in the draft to the Pistons for John Leuer (and his 1 year, $9 mil salary). This deal is not about the players as much as it is about the salary. The Bucks give up the last pick of the first round in order to save a couple mil this year and $12 mil next year.

[flyingdutchdevil]

Think you have your own issues this offseason. 😉 We’re used to it here.

Oh yeah. The Celtics have turned into a magnificent dumpster fire this off-season (maybe a landfill fire is more appropriate). Going from the team with the brightest future to losing your starting PG, starting PF and retaining a bunched of pissed off players (mainly because of our PG) is not easy to solve. And I'm not sure Ainge is going to fix this problem any time soon.

Also, Stevens has proven he's human. This emotional attachment to Hayward has, IMO, really hurt the Celtics.

[BD80]

The Bucks have traded (https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/27013045/bucks-trading-snell-pistons-leuer) Tony Snell (and his 2 years, $23 mil of salary) and the #30 pick in the draft to the Pistons for John Leuer (and his 1 year, $9 mil salary). This deal is not about the players as much as it is about the salary. The Bucks give up the last pick of the first round in order to save a couple mil this year and $12 mil next year.

This is an absolute steal for the Pistons!

And yet they are not significantly improved.

The #30 pick is right at that point where a high 2nd round pick might be better. The #30 gets guaranteed money and at least 3 years on the contract (4?). In this draft, there might not be many guys worthy of that cap space counting toward the luxury tax.

[scottdude8]

This is an absolute steal for the Pistons!

And yet they are not significantly improved.

The #30 pick is right at that point where a high 2nd round pick might be better. The #30 gets guaranteed money and at least 3 years on the contract (4?). In this draft, there might not be many guys worthy of that cap space counting toward the luxury tax.

Yeah as a Detroiter I was pleasantly surprised by this deal too. Snell actually has a role to play for the Pistons, who outside of our Luke Kennard are very thin on the wing. To get a guy who should contribute alongside a bonus first rounder is nice.

If I were the Pistons I’d now be doing everything I could to try to turn that first rounder into moving up in the draft. I could see a team around the 10 pick whose target player is gone willing to trade down to 15 and 30. As I mentioned, the Pistons need wings and outside shooting badly. If Cam falls, maybe they use this ammo and do everything they can to move up to get him. Or at least that’s my pipe dream!

[IrishDevil]

Interesting take/tinfoil hattery on one way the Lakers could address their cap issues from the Ringer here (https://www.theringer.com/nba/2019/6/20/18693147/lebron-james-anthony-davis-klay-thompson-space-jam-2-lakers-salary-cap).

[Billy Dat]

The Pels picked up Jah's option
https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2842001-pelicans-rumors-jahlil-okafors-contract-option-to-be-picked-up-by-new-orleans

[MrPoon]

The Pels picked up Jah's option
https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2842001-pelicans-rumors-jahlil-okafors-contract-option-to-be-picked-up-by-new-orleans

Under 2m for a guy who is 23 and got over 11 and 6 on a mess of a team. That is an amazing deal. Hope he continues to grow. With Pel’s going young, maybe they’ll be more focused on development.

[JasonEvans]

If you are like me and have been wondering why or how the Lakers were unable to get the Pelicans deal to work properly for maximum salary cap space (be having it be executed on July 30th, not July 6th), we finally have an answer. Lakers GM Rob Pelinka is an idiot who does not understand how the salary cap works (https://deadspin.com/lakers-gm-rob-pelinka-is-reportedly-learning-how-the-sa-1835698463).


ESPN's Ramona Shelburne also said the Lakers have “capologists,” who theoretically could have made the trade’s pitfalls evident to management ahead of time, though she shrugged and said, “It’s a question of if they listened.”

The Lakers also reportedly did not know Davis’s contract included a 15 percent trade kicker, worth about $4.1 million. Bleacher Report’s Howard Beck reported Wednesday that the Lakers never even asked Davis about waiving it, and Adrian Wojnarowski reported that the player “doesn’t plan” to waive it. The net result of the Lakers not understanding how the salary cap works could be having around $9 million less to work with this summer as well as having a bare cupboard of young players, which matters to a worrying degree for a team with only AD, LeBron, and Kyle Kuzma on the roster.

I know the Lakers are the trendy pick to win the title... but unless a whole bunch of vets are willing to take massive discounts to play with Bron/Brow, it ain't happening.

-Jason "I bet the Lakers roster will include at least 5 guys who would be G-League/2-way players under normal circumstances" Evans

[CDu]

TJ Warren traded to the Pacers along with the 32nd pick. Suns clearing cap space.

[ice-9]

Oh yeah. The Celtics have turned into a magnificent dumpster fire this off-season (maybe a landfill fire is more appropriate). Going from the team with the brightest future to losing your starting PG, starting PF and retaining a bunched of pissed off players (mainly because of our PG) is not easy to solve. And I'm not sure Ainge is going to fix this problem any time soon.

Also, Stevens has proven he's human. This emotional attachment to Hayward has, IMO, really hurt the Celtics.

It's not your opinion, reportedly that was the start of the chemistry issues: https://sports.yahoo.com/report-brad-stevens-dedication-gordon-032947835.html

[Acymetric]

Oh yeah. The Celtics have turned into a magnificent dumpster fire this off-season (maybe a landfill fire is more appropriate). Going from the team with the brightest future to losing your starting PG, starting PF and retaining a bunched of pissed off players (mainly because of our PG) is not easy to solve. And I'm not sure Ainge is going to fix this problem any time soon.

Also, Stevens has proven he's human. This emotional attachment to Hayward has, IMO, really hurt the Celtics.


It's not your opinion, reportedly that was the start of the chemistry issues: https://sports.yahoo.com/report-brad-stevens-dedication-gordon-032947835.html

Kind of amazing the difference a year makes. Wasn't long ago we were heralding Ainge and Stevens as a pair of basketball masterminds.

Honestly I think the smartest thing would be to try to move Hayward to get the locker room back, but I'm not sure he's movable and it might be too late for it to work anyway.

[superdave]

Kind of amazing the difference a year makes. Wasn't long ago we were heralding Ainge and Stevens as a pair of basketball masterminds.

Honestly I think the smartest thing would be to try to move Hayward to get the locker room back, but I'm not sure he's movable and it might be too late for it to work anyway.

I still think Ainge and Stevens are great. Ainge made the most of the Pierce/Garnett departure and kept rolling the assets forward. The mistake he made was keeping his powder dry. He just kept waiting and waiting for the Davis deal to come along. And he got a little unlucky with Kyrie.

Here's some ideas - at the 2018 Draft, Ainge could have used Rozier on the last year of a rookie deal plus the Sacramento pick to trade for Wendell Carter (the #7 pick last year). Ainge would have sold high on Rozier who was PG on the Eastern Conference runners up and Kyrie insurance. He would have sold high on the Sacramento pick because now the Kings are a .500 team. He could have had Carter be the backup center until Horford's deal was up.

Or Ainge could packaged Jaylen Brown, Marcus Smart and a pick for Kawhi last summer (or Bradley Beal this summer if he's gettable). Brown and Jayson Tatum overlap a fair amount, so why not pick one and move the other?

It's almost like AD is Ainge's great white whale. He could have gone a dozen other equally compelling routes, but only seemed to care about AD.

[JasonEvans]

It's almost like AD is Ainge's great white whale. He could have gone a dozen other equally compelling routes, but only seemed to care about AD.

And here is the crazy thing... AD has never been on a really good team. I'm not saying it is his fault that Nawlins was a low-end playoff team much of his career, but the truly great players sorta tend to elevate their teammates and their team in a way that makes their team a contender. I mean, we are talking about a guy who has played in a grand total of 13 playoff games in his entire career.

So, Danny sorta bet everything on landing a Moby Dick who kinda sorta isn't even a winner.

-Jason "losing Horford is going to hurt the Celtics a lot more than losing Kyrie" Evans

[BD80]

...

-Jason "losing Horford is going to hurt the Celtics a lot more than losing Kyrie" Evans

But to an extent, they would be losing him even if he stayed in Boston. At 33, and with 12 years in the league, how long can he continue at the level of his 3 years with the Celts? Even with that, in 2 less minutes per game, he averaged 1.4 less rebounds per game as a Celt compared to his career average. He's already had 2 seasons reduced by injury. It is such a fine line in professional sports when dealing with aging stars, particularly on teams with rising young stars who will want to get PAID!

I totally agree that he was/is more important to the team than Kyrie.

[superdave]

And here is the crazy thing... AD has never been on a really good team. I'm not saying it is his fault that Nawlins was a low-end playoff team much of his career, but the truly great players sorta tend to elevate their teammates and their team in a way that makes their team a contender. I mean, we are talking about a guy who has played in a grand total of 13 playoff games in his entire career.

So, Danny sorta bet everything on landing a Moby Dick who kinda sorta isn't even a winner.

-Jason "losing Horford is going to hurt the Celtics a lot more than losing Kyrie" Evans

Agreed on Horford. Davis had a monster series vs. Portland in the 2018 playoffs: https://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/2018-nba-western-conference-first-round-pelicans-vs-trail-blazers.html

That plus his second half of the year in 2018 had everyone going crazy.

Still cant believe Ainge kept waiting for AD without even putting out feelers as to whether AD would come to Boston.

[MartyClark]

Agreed on Horford. Davis had a monster series vs. Portland in the 2018 playoffs: https://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/2018-nba-western-conference-first-round-pelicans-vs-trail-blazers.html

That plus his second half of the year in 2018 had everyone going crazy.

Still cant believe Ainge kept waiting for AD without even putting out feelers as to whether AD would come to Boston.

It's all easy in hindsight but, what the heck, Celtics have lost on every personnel decision.

[BD80]

...

Still cant believe Ainge kept waiting for AD without even putting out feelers as to whether AD would come to Boston.

You mean tamper?

[subzero02]

Agreed on Horford. Davis had a monster series vs. Portland in the 2018 playoffs: https://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/2018-nba-western-conference-first-round-pelicans-vs-trail-blazers.html

That plus his second half of the year in 2018 had everyone going crazy.
.

AD is quite the game changer...


In this article, Andre Iguodala indicates that neither Klay nor KD will be headed to the New York Knicks.

https://ftw.usatoday.com/2019/06/warriors-andre-iguodala-kevin-durant-klay-thompson-nobody-going-to-knicks

https://twitter.com/i/status/1143242819114373121

[bundabergdevil]

It's not your opinion, reportedly that was the start of the chemistry issues: https://sports.yahoo.com/report-brad-stevens-dedication-gordon-032947835.html

On a human level, Stevens' dedication to Hayward is admirable but I can see how it could cause issues in the locker room. JJ once talked about how professional sports are as close to a pure meritocracy as it gets so I can see how any whiff of favoritism or the perception of unearned playing time/contracts could undermine team chemistry. IIRC, the perception that Doc was helping out Austin while he was on the Clippers contributed to their chemistry issues and, as JJ described it, joylessness. Given the Hayward-Stevens history, that Doc-Austin relationship is about as close a parallel as I can conjure...

[JasonEvans]

The Lakers are supposedly interested in signing JR Smith.

Please, God... make this happen

https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--fg65TOm6--/c_scale,f_auto,fl_progressive,q_80,w_800/tv9jbppc1lkulpezb6uj.jpg

[subzero02]

https://mobile.twitter.com/wojespn/status/1143906064779362306

According to Adrian Wojnarowski, Kevin Durant has declined his $31.5 million player option for 2019-2020 with the Warriors

[Steven43]

The Lakers are supposedly interested in signing JR Smith.

Please, God... make this happen

https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--fg65TOm6--/c_scale,f_auto,fl_progressive,q_80,w_800/tv9jbppc1lkulpezb6uj.jpg

That may be the greatest sports photo of all time.

[subzero02]

That may be the greatest sports photo of all time.

9562
Opposite angle...

9563
Post debacle reaction...

[superdave]

https://mobile.twitter.com/wojespn/status/1143906064779362306

According to Adrian Wojnarowski, Kevin Durant has declined his $31.5 million player option for 2019-2020 with the Warriors

Yeah, he's going to get a $7 million pay raise to rehab his achilles. Nice work if you can get it.

I recommend the Zach Lowe/Woj podcast from yesterday. They burn through the latest gossip. They think the Knicks will offer Durant and use next year to tank again if they get him, then sign a second free agent plus add another high lottery pick.

They also think Brooklyn is split on DAngelo vs Kyrie given what they've built the last few years.

[jimsumner]

What's with LeBron and J.R. Smith? Did LeBron lose a bet?

[devildeac]

What's with LeBron and J.R. Smith? Did LeBron lose a bet?

It'd be really amazing if richardjackson199 and Jason Evans were somehow involved in this...

:rolleyes:

[JetpackJesus]

Yeah, he's going to get a $7 million pay raise to rehab his achilles. Nice work if you can get it.

I recommend the Zach Lowe/Woj podcast from yesterday. They burn through the latest gossip. They think the Knicks will offer Durant and use next year to tank again if they get him, then sign a second free agent plus add another high lottery pick.

They also think Brooklyn is split on DAngelo vs Kyrie given what they've built the last few years.

Zach Lowe also wrote a piece yesterday about the D'Angelo/Kyrie question for the Nets (https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/27037915/kyrie-dangelo-how-brooklyn-handle-difficult-decision). As is the case with all Lowe articles, it's very thorough and very well done.

[Steven43]

9562
Opposite angle...

9563
Post debacle reaction...

Great stuff, thanks.

I just watched a video of the play and its aftermath. J.R. Smith had just finished hurriedly (and futilely) passing the ball to George Hill — after Lebron had wildly exhorted him to do so — when Lebron begins berating him. Smith then looks around as if he is not sure what had just transpired. He then realizes the gravity of his error and walks toward Lebron while trying to explain why he had done what he did, but Lebron is not having any of it. He angrily berates Smith one final time and disgustedly walks away, leaving Smith alone in his shame. That might be the last time they ever spoke.

[English]

There's a lot of steam picking up for the C's pursuit of Kemba. Reports out yesterday and today suggest that Kemba and BuzzCity are currently in a stalemate with a significant divide in negotiations. Many NBA insiders and prognosticators have actually gone so far as to say Boston is the frontrunner for Kemba now. This is why the suggestion that Kemba would give Buzz a hometown discount was always pretty laughable, considering the magnitude of this year's offseason.

Dominoes and all that...if the C's do successfully lure Kemba into the fold, they would have to renounce Scary Terry's rights and rumors abound that the Knicks are interested in Rozier should he become available.

This is fun.

[JasonEvans]

The Lakers have apparently gotten Washington to help facilitate the deal for Anthony Davis so Mo Wagner, Isaac Bonga, and Jeremiah Jones go to the Wiz as a way of opening some extra cap space for the Lakers (what does Washington get out of this? Probably a 2nd rounder or a future first?). Additionally, AD has agreed to waive his $4 mil trade kicker. The end result of all this is that the Lakers now have $32 mil of cap space to potentially sign another max free agent.

Of course, this means the Lakers now have exactly 3 players under contract (Bron, Brow, and Kuzma), so if they use that space on another stud, the rest of their roster is likely to be vets taking the minimum and guys who probably should be in the G League but suddenly have a shot at a ring. Crazy! Marquis Bolden's agent should be calling the Lakers right now!!

-Jason "Suddenly, Kemba to the Celtics may not be as much of a sure thing" Evans

[scottdude8]

The Lakers have apparently gotten Washington to help facilitate the deal for Anthony Davis so Mo Wagner, Isaac Bonga, and Jeremiah Jones go to the Wiz as a way of opening some extra cap space for the Lakers. Additionally, AD has agreed to waive his $4 mil trade kicker. The end result of all this is that the Lakers now have $32 mil of cap space to potentially sign another max free agent.

-Jason "Suddenly, Kemba to the Celtics may not be as much of a sure thing" Evans

Phew! My love of Mo Wagner was one of the few things that could've potentially trumped my hatred of LA sports and need to root against LeBron and made me (sort of) pull for the Lakers. Obviously being in Washington is a crappy situation, but he's out of that circus so I can root fully for one of my favorite Wolverines of all time!

I'd be curious if this move has anything to do with the Kemba-to-Boston buzz, if indeed the Lakers were targeting him as the third head of a "big three". If they wanted to offer another max deal they needed this space, so it certainly seems like they're going the "all-in" route rather than the "balanced roster" route. Not the decision I'd have made, but the Lakers are all about star power...

[JasonEvans]

The Lakers have apparently gotten Washington to help facilitate the deal for Anthony Davis so Mo Wagner, Isaac Bonga, and Jeremiah Jones go to the Wiz as a way of opening some extra cap space for the Lakers (what does Washington get out of this? Probably a 2nd rounder or a future first?). Additionally, AD has agreed to waive his $4 mil trade kicker. The end result of all this is that the Lakers now have $32 mil of cap space to potentially sign another max free agent.

Of course, this means the Lakers now have exactly 3 players under contract (Bron, Brow, and Kuzma), so if they use that space on another stud, the rest of their roster is likely to be vets taking the minimum and guys who probably should be in the G League but suddenly have a shot at a ring. Crazy! Marquis Bolden's agent should be calling the Lakers right now!!

-Jason "Suddenly, Kemba to the Celtics may not be as much of a sure thing" Evans

Washington gets a 2022 2nd rounder out of this deal (likely to be very late in the 2nd round). I also suspect that Wagner and Bonga have some appeal as they are young players who went late first/early second only a year ago and could develop into useful players.

[CDu]

Well, kudos to Pelinka for righting the ship. Should be interesting. And yes, I would absolutely expect the Lakers to go all-in for a max guy. That is the model LeBron understands, and arguably the top-tier talent is who gets underpaid in these markets. I would expect the Lakers to use the cap space to land one of the top guards on the market: Walker, Irving, Russell, or even Klay Thompson. Then fill the rest in with vet minimum guys.

[Kedsy]

Well, kudos to Pelinka for righting the ship. Should be interesting. And yes, I would absolutely expect the Lakers to go all-in for a max guy. That is the model LeBron understands, and arguably the top-tier talent is who gets underpaid in these markets. I would expect the Lakers to use the cap space to land one of the top guards on the market: Walker, Irving, Russell, or even Klay Thompson. Then fill the rest in with vet minimum guys.

Irving, with his history with LeBron? Russell, with his history in LA? Thompson, who's scheduled to miss most (or all) of the season? This really is a circus.

[CDu]

Irving, with his history with LeBron? Russell, with his history in LA? Thompson, who's scheduled to miss most (or all) of the season? This really is a circus.

Nobody that was in LA when Russell did that is still there. And he was 19 at the time.

I don’t think Irving is likely, but he did get a dose of humble pie this year.

Thompson should be back by around the All Star break or by March (8-9 months), is from LA, his dad played there, etc.

If I had to guess, in order of likelihood it would be Walker, Russell, Thompson, Irving. But I would expect them to get one of those guys. The opportunity to play with LeBron and AD and for a storied franchise in LA is going to be too big a draw to be ignored.

[Matches]

If I had to guess, in order of likelihood it would be Walker, Russell, Thompson, Irving. But I would expect them to get one of those guys. The opportunity to play with LeBron and AD and for a storied franchise in LA is going to be too big a draw to be ignored.

I would expect them to have interest in Leonard and possibly Butler or Harris too. You're probably right that Walker is the best fit but he's also a great fit in Boston and may prefer the East Coast. Russell is only going to be on the market if the Nets sign Kyrie, which of course would take him off the Lakers' list. Thompson's not going anywhere IMO.

[scottdude8]

Here's the part that I don't get... with LeBron and AD you already have two guys who need the ball in their hands to score. What is adding a ball-dominant PG going to do to help that situation? Most successful "Big Threes" have included one complementary player (Chris Bosh filled that role in Miami, Klay as a off-ball shooter in Golden State, even Kevin Love would qualify under that heading for Cleveland). If I were the Lakers, and I'm as high on Kyle Kuzma as they seem to be, I'd take that cap space and go after a PG who can distribute the ball and play hellish defense, a deadeye three point shooter, who plays off the ball, and use the leftover space to create some depth. If you add Kyrie or Kemba to the roster you're basically committing to one strategy, which is "Whichever of our Big Three is hot/has the best matchup in a given game will dominate the ball, and we really hope he scores 40".

If I were designing a team around AD and Lebron, I'd go out and try to get, say, JJ and Malcolm Brogdon, and then see if you can get someone like Danny Green or Trevor Ariza for cheap as a sixth man. That team could attack you in a lot of different ways. A PG like Brogdon doesn't need to score and can get the ball to AD or LeBron in the paint. If teams double those guys downlow, JJ is there to space the floor and drain an open 3. And having Green or Ariza means the team isn't completely handicapped if (or, more likely given how things have gone, when) LeBron needs to take some games off for injury.

From what I've read from various so-called "experts", they seem to agree that the "spread the wealth" scenario would be better for the Lakers from a purely basketball sense. So if they do go after another star, I'm betting it has more to do with the "box office" than the basketball court.

[Matches]

Well technically all players need the ball in their hands to score :) but your point is a good one. If Kemba does sign in LA he'll have to do it knowing he's going to get a lot fewer shots than he did in Charlotte (which may be a good thing).

[CDu]

Here's the part that I don't get... with LeBron and AD you already have two guys who need the ball in their hands to score. What is adding a ball-dominant PG going to do to help that situation? Most successful "Big Threes" have included one complementary player (Chris Bosh filled that role in Miami, Klay as a off-ball shooter in Golden State, even Kevin Love would qualify under that heading for Cleveland). If I were the Lakers, and I'm as high on Kyle Kuzma as they seem to be, I'd take that cap space and go after a PG who can distribute the ball and play hellish defense, a deadeye three point shooter, who plays off the ball, and use the leftover space to create some depth. If you add Kyrie or Kemba to the roster you're basically committing to one strategy, which is "Whichever of our Big Three is hot/has the best matchup in a given game will dominate the ball, and we really hope he scores 40".

If I were designing a team around AD and Lebron, I'd go out and try to get, say, JJ and Malcolm Brogdon, and then see if you can get someone like Danny Green or Trevor Ariza for cheap as a sixth man. That team could attack you in a lot of different ways. A PG like Brogdon doesn't need to score and can get the ball to AD or LeBron in the paint. If teams double those guys downlow, JJ is there to space the floor and drain an open 3. And having Green or Ariza means the team isn't completely handicapped if (or, more likely given how things have gone, when) LeBron needs to take some games off for injury.

From what I've read from various so-called "experts", they seem to agree that the "spread the wealth" scenario would be better for the Lakers from a purely basketball sense. So if they do go after another star, I'm betting it has more to do with the "box office" than the basketball court.

They don’t have the cap space to get Brogdon + JJ + Green. They might be able to get one of Redick/Brogdon and Green, but not all three unless one or two takes a serious discount.

Also, Davis isn’t a guy that requires the ball in his hands to score. He can affect the game in other ways and score off of LeBron and a guard doing the heavy lifting.

[superdave]

If I were designing a team around AD and Lebron, I'd go out and try to get, say, JJ and Malcolm Brogdon, and then see if you can get someone like Danny Green or Trevor Ariza for cheap as a sixth man. That team could attack you in a lot of different ways. A PG like Brogdon doesn't need to score and can get the ball to AD or LeBron in the paint. If teams double those guys downlow, JJ is there to space the floor and drain an open 3. And having Green or Ariza means the team isn't completely handicapped if (or, more likely given how things have gone, when) LeBron needs to take some games off for injury.


Stop making sense!

Ariza, Danny Green, Brook Lopez, Patrick Beverly all for the price of D'Angelo Russell!

[budwom]

I'm not sure that the Lakers are the dream destination for top guys they evidently think they are. It's never easy playing for two coaches, and LeBron's act can get old. I don't care either way, but would not be surprised to see them whiff on top targets (and I agree they might do better targeting some other "good fit" guys)...

[Billy Dat]

If you guys had to wager now whether this Lakers squad will do great things or fizzle for various reasons, what would you guess?

I am on Team Fizzle because I think injury will come in to play, they won't have enough quality depth, and Jason Kidd will be gunning for Frank Vogel from Day 1, LBJ will be gunning for them both, and AD will wonder what the heck he got himself into.

[MartyClark]

If you guys had to wager now whether this Lakers squad will do great things or fizzle for various reasons, what would you guess?

I am on Team Fizzle because I think injury will come in to play, they won't have enough quality depth, and Jason Kidd will be gunning for Frank Vogel from Day 1, LBJ will be gunning for them both, and AD will wonder what the heck he got himself into.

I'm on Team Fizzle, happy to be a super sub.

[cspan37421]

I'm on Team Fizzle, happy to be a super sub.

LBJ is a GREAT player. But I've never seen a star so constantly desperate to find other teammates (and coaches).

I was on Team Fizzle last year, as soon as I heard of the guys LBJ recruited from the Island of Misfit Toys. I need to check my contract for a player option to continue ... I don't think the circus is leaving town any time soon.

[SoCalDukeFan]

The arcane rules of the NBA salary cap are way beyond me.

According to Bleacher Report this is the Laker roster.

Anthony Davis, PF: $25.4M (2021)

Kyle Kuzma, PF: $1.7M (2021)

LeBron James, SF: $38.3M (2022)

Talen Horton-Tucker, SF: N/A (Acquired draft rights from Orlando Magic, per Shams Charania of The Athletic and Stadium)

Alex Caruso, SG: $1.4M (Qualifying Offer)

Johnathan Williams, PF: $1.4M (Qualifying Offer)

The have $27.25 million in cap space and $4.76 million from something called the room exception.
They need a quality point guard who can distribute, they need a quality outside shooter and then they need reserves.
They will need to be either very very lucky or very very good and hope they can sign relatively low salary players who can contribute.

At times they will look great and exciting, but it is a long season and the reserves will have to play some. I would bet on fizzle.

SoCal

[subzero02]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.actionnetwork.com/nba/nba-win-totals-betting-odds-2019-2020

This site lists the 2019-2020 win total predictions from 3 gambling sites ( fan duel, draft kings and points bet ). All 3 sites list the Lakers' win total for the regular season amongst the top 3 win totals in the league. The Bucks are listed 1st across the board.


9564

[Steven43]

LBJ is a GREAT player. But I've never seen a star so constantly desperate to find other teammates (and coaches).

I was on Team Fizzle last year, as soon as I heard of the guys LBJ recruited from the Island of Misfit Toys.
Man, you had me laughing out loud with the “Island of Misfit Toys” comment. It’s funny because it’s true. When prior to last season the Lakers signed Rajon Rondo, Lance Stephenson, JaVale McGee, and Michael Beasley — four of the biggest NBA headaches in the past two decades — it was almost beyond comprehension. The results were as predictable as the sun rising. As a Celtics fan I loved every zany minute of it.

[subzero02]

Man, you had me laughing out loud with the “Island of Misfit Toys” comment. It’s funny because it’s true. When prior to last season the Lakers signed Rajon Rondo, Lance Stephenson, JaVale McGee, and Michael Beasley — four of the biggest NBA headaches in the past two decades — it was almost beyond comprehension. The results were as predictable as the sun rising. As a Celtics fan I loved every zany minute of it.


The Lakers had the 4th best record in the western conference after they beat Golden State on Christmas day. They won 20 of their first 34 games but in the contests after LeBron's injury, they only won 17 times. 20 and 14 before the injury and 17 and 31 afterwards. If he hadn't been sidelined with a pretty severe groin injury, I think the Lakers' season would've been far less zany. They likely would have been a playoff team capable of doing some damage but not capable of contending for the conference title.
9565

[BD80]

Well, kudos to Pelinka for righting the ship. Should be interesting. And yes, I would absolutely expect the Lakers to go all-in for a max guy. That is the model LeBron understands, and arguably the top-tier talent is who gets underpaid in these markets. I would expect the Lakers to use the cap space to land one of the top guards on the market: Walker, Irving, Russell, or even Klay Thompson. Then fill the rest in with vet minimum guys.

There's word that Melo could be one of those guys.

Maybe they could get Magic back, not in the front office, but to play.

[mkirsh]

Well, kudos to Pelinka for righting the ship. Should be interesting. And yes, I would absolutely expect the Lakers to go all-in for a max guy. That is the model LeBron understands, and arguably the top-tier talent is who gets underpaid in these markets. I would expect the Lakers to use the cap space to land one of the top guards on the market: Walker, Irving, Russell, or even Klay Thompson. Then fill the rest in with vet minimum guys.

Do you get kudos for putting out the fire that you started? We had a lot of that in DC recently - good job by Grunfield to trade Otto Porter’s terrible contract. Nevermind who signed him to that contract, just keep looking away....

[cato]

Here's the part that I don't get... with LeBron and AD you already have two guys who need the ball in their hands to score. What is adding a ball-dominant PG going to do to help that situation? Most successful "Big Threes" have included one complementary player (Chris Bosh filled that role in Miami, Klay as a off-ball shooter in Golden State, even Kevin Love would qualify under that heading for Cleveland). If I were the Lakers, and I'm as high on Kyle Kuzma as they seem to be, I'd take that cap space and go after a PG who can distribute the ball and play hellish defense, a deadeye three point shooter, who plays off the ball, and use the leftover space to create some depth. If you add Kyrie or Kemba to the roster you're basically committing to one strategy, which is "Whichever of our Big Three is hot/has the best matchup in a given game will dominate the ball, and we really hope he scores 40".

If I were designing a team around AD and Lebron, I'd go out and try to get, say, JJ and Malcolm Brogdon, and then see if you can get someone like Danny Green or Trevor Ariza for cheap as a sixth man. That team could attack you in a lot of different ways. A PG like Brogdon doesn't need to score and can get the ball to AD or LeBron in the paint. If teams double those guys downlow, JJ is there to space the floor and drain an open 3. And having Green or Ariza means the team isn't completely handicapped if (or, more likely given how things have gone, when) LeBron needs to take some games off for injury.

From what I've read from various so-called "experts", they seem to agree that the "spread the wealth" scenario would be better for the Lakers from a purely basketball sense. So if they do go after another star, I'm betting it has more to do with the "box office" than the basketball court.

Hmm. We already know that Kyrie and Lebron can win together. Why can’t Davis complement them like a better Kevin Love?

[Kedsy]

Hmm. We already know that Kyrie and Lebron can win together. Why can’t Davis complement them like a better Kevin Love?

They won coming out of a very weak East. Not sure a team like that would succeed the same way coming out of a competitive West.

[budwom]

Fizzle for sure, and I'd sure hate to be their coach. Can't even imagine how they can field a team with suitable role players and a bench, even if they get a third star which I suspect they won't.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.actionnetwork.com/nba/nba-win-totals-betting-odds-2019-2020

This site lists the 2019-2020 win total predictions from 3 gambling sites ( fan duel, draft kings and points bet ). All 3 sites list the Lakers' win total for the regular season amongst the top 3 win totals in the league. The Bucks are listed 1st across the board.


9564

Not sure how they come to this conclusion with three players on their roster.

[BD80]

Fizzle for sure, and I'd sure hate to be their coach. Can't even imagine how they can field a team with suitable role players and a bench, even if they get a third star which I suspect they won't.

They will easily get a 3rd star.

They can give max money which is the ultimate status for an NBA player. The actual money, after tax dollars due to Cali state tax, is not nearly as important to many players because they are dealing with stupid amounts of money, far more than anyone could ever need. AD just "gave" away $4 million by waiving his trade kicker. Can any of us imagine just giving away $4 million?

Having stupid amounts of money, LA is the destination of choice for many players. Luxury lifestyle, great weather, trendy social life, adoring press and fans.

Playing with LeBron and AD would be pretty cool too.

[cspan37421]

The Lakers had the 4th best record in the western conference after they beat Golden State on Christmas day. They won 20 of their first 34 games but in the contests after LeBron's injury, they only won 17 times. 20 and 14 before the injury and 17 and 31 afterwards. If he hadn't been sidelined with a pretty severe groin injury, I think the Lakers' season would've been far less zany. They likely would have been a playoff team capable of doing some damage but not capable of contending for the conference title.

That's fair - but one need not have predicted a Suns-type season for the LAL to be on Team Fizzle last year. Lebron had been to the finals how many times in a row? Eight? Going 20-14 out of the gate, as you indicated ... that included 7-11 vs. eventual playoff teams, by my quick analysis. Ignoring other finer points, they might have been headed for the playoffs as a lower seed and being bounced in the first round. Coming from his lofty perch, that's still a fizzle in my book, and probably his as well.

The thing that leaves me SMH is that in addition to being a one of the all-time great players, he seems to think his exceptional abilities extend to the roles of coach and GM as well. And he doesn't just think it - he acts on it. That's where my admiration of him ends, as far as basketball is concerned.

[JasonEvans]

Hmm. We already know that Kyrie and Lebron can win together. Why can’t Davis complement them like a better Kevin Love?

Worth noting that the 2016 Cavs team that won the title also had a really nice supporting cast in 3-point specialist JR Smith, rebounding machine Tristan Thompson, a solid PG duo in Mo Williams and Delavadova, plus Frye, Richard Jefferson, Shumpert, and Mozgov. I'm not saying that was the best roster of role players around, but there are a lot of solid contributors there (most of whom are darn good shooters, rebounders, or defenders). They had acquired those players over several years and many of them were making a decent NBA salary. Delly and Jefferson were the only guys making the minimum while TT, JR, Frye, Shump, and Moz combined to earn more than $40 mil in 2016.

Bottom line -- saying that what the Lakers will roll out there this year (assuming they do sign a third star) will be similar to what Lebron had in Cleveland (or Miami) could be fatally flawed because the current Lakers are going to have no choice but to fill the rest of their roster with rookies/G-Leaguers or vets they pull off the trash heap for the minimum.

-Jason "Depth matters... " Evans

[Matches]

They won coming out of a very weak East. Not sure a team like that would succeed the same way coming out of a competitive West.

I think that Cavs team would have been favored in a 7-game series against any team in the West except for the 73-9 Warriors, who of course they actually beat in the Finals. They would have faced more good teams along the way, sure, and maybe that would have done them in, but that Cavs team was really good. And while the West is still competitive, it's not as deep as it was in 2016, and there's no one as good as that year's Warriors.

[CDu]

Worth noting that the 2016 Cavs team that won the title also had a really nice supporting cast in 3-point specialist JR Smith, rebounding machine Tristan Thompson, a solid PG duo in Mo Williams and Delavadova, plus Frye, Richard Jefferson, Shumpert, and Mozgov. I'm not saying that was the best roster of role players around, but there are a lot of solid contributors there (most of whom are darn good shooters, rebounders, or defenders). They had acquired those players over several years and many of them were making a decent NBA salary. Delly and Jefferson were the only guys making the minimum while TT, JR, Frye, Shump, and Moz combined to earn more than $40 mil in 2016.

Bottom line -- saying that what the Lakers will roll out there this year (assuming they do sign a third star) will be similar to what Lebron had in Cleveland (or Miami) could be fatally flawed because the current Lakers are going to have no choice but to fill the rest of their roster with rookies/G-Leaguers or vets they pull off the trash heap for the minimum.

-Jason "Depth matters... " Evans

Yes, it very much remains to be seen exactly how good the Lakers (assuming they get a "big 3") will be. That being said, here is a list of players who were on veteran's minimum salaries and had ~2+ win shares last year:

Jeff Green
Amir Johnson
JaVale McGee
Zaza Pachulia
Nerlens Noel
Spencer Dinwiddie
Gerald Green
Dwyane Wade
Vince Carter
Derrick Rose
Jonas Jerebko
Jahlil Okafor
Trey Burke
Noah Vonleh
Alfonzo McKinnie
Monte Morris
Khem Birch
Maxi Kleber
Thomas Bryant
Derrick Jones
Dorian Finney-Smith
Rodney McGruder
TJ McConnell
Daniel Theis
Cheick Diallo
Ryan Arcidiacono
Mitchell Robinson
Tyson Chandler
Wayne Ellington
Tim Frazier
James Ennis
Ivica Zubac
Quinn Cook

And that doesn't include 1.5 WS guys like Nwaba, Devin Harris, Jordan Bell, Damyeon Dotson, Darius Miller, Omri Casspi, Greg Monroe, Corey Brewer, Austin Rivers. Or guys who were hurt this year like Nick Young, Tyler Zeller, Jodie Meeks, etc.

Not to say that any of those guys will be available at the minimum this year. Nor is it to say that many of those guys are really good. Just that it isn't impossible to field a rotation with 5-6 decent-to-very-good role players at the league minimum. Every year there are a bunch of decent players who get squeezed on the free agent market and wind up taking prove-it deals elsewhere and/or decide to chase a ring instead of signing for a bit more with a bad team. This summer will be no exception.

And that doesn't include the midseason market for buyout guys that happens every year (like this year's Faried, Lin, Kanter, Pau Gasol, Markieff Morris, Wes Matthews, etc).

Don't get me wrong: it's a precarious position to be in needing to fill 9-11 roster spots with vet minimum guys and/or undrafted guys to go along with a core of LeBron, AD, "insert name of max guy", Kuzma, and Horton Tucker. But it can be done. They need to land one additional starter and 3-4 more quality rotation guys. It will be hard, but it is doable.

[Edouble]

Bottom line -- saying that what the Lakers will roll out there this year (assuming they do sign a third star) will be similar to what Lebron had in Cleveland (or Miami) could be fatally flawed because the current Lakers are going to have no choice but to fill the rest of their roster with rookies/G-Leaguers or vets they pull off the trash heap for the minimum.

-Jason "Depth matters... " Evans

IMHO, it's really not nice to call people, human beings, "trash". People are people. They are not trash. Particularly in light of certain current events, and I'll go no further. But I have to speak up when these sorts of phrases begin to make their way into the sports vernacular.


They will easily get a 3rd star.

Playing with LeBron and AD would be pretty cool too.
Yes, they will get a third star. Last year's Lakers didn't even have a second star. LeBron's track record is too good for me to join Team Fizzle. LAL was building something before LBJ went down with a groin injury last year.


Hmm. We already know that Kyrie and Lebron can win together. Why can’t Davis complement them like a better Kevin Love?
Agree. And with the third star they'll be the destination of choice for the vet ring chasers, now that Golden State is looking out of contention. The East is looking more formidable, the West is looking less formidable.

[brevity]

IMHO, it's really not nice to call people, human beings, "trash". People are people. They are not trash. Particularly in light of certain current events, and I'll go no further. But I have to speak up when these sorts of phrases begin to make their way into the sports vernacular.

I didn’t make the comment, but that seems fair.

Can we still refer to the Lakers organization as a “dumpster fire”? Rather than describing people, it describes the incompetent work they do, and it gives us a mental picture of their situation way better than the vague phrase “mismanaged franchise”.

[budwom]

They will easily get a 3rd star.

They can give max money which is the ultimate status for an NBA player. The actual money, after tax dollars due to Cali state tax, is not nearly as important to many players because they are dealing with stupid amounts of money, far more than anyone could ever need. AD just "gave" away $4 million by waiving his trade kicker. Can any of us imagine just giving away $4 million?

Having stupid amounts of money, LA is the destination of choice for many players. Luxury lifestyle, great weather, trendy social life, adoring press and fans.

Playing with LeBron and AD would be pretty cool too.


I know they have the money, but I just don't see them getting a bona fide third star, even if they pay some guy max money, maybe I'm wrong. When you look at the available headlining talent, KD and Thompson are, for the time being, damaged goods, and of little use this next season....Irving is likely headed elsewhere, ditto for Walker who could be in Boston, Leonard seems more likely to join the Clippers who feature the same nice weather and less drama....would you count Jimmy Butler as a third star? Not one of my favorites, but his 'tude might be perfect for LA....I just don't see them getting a scintillating player, max money or no max money. We soon shall see!

[UrinalCake]

Not to say that any of those guys will be available at the minimum this year. Nor is it to say that many of those guys are really good. Just that it isn't impossible to field a rotation with 5-6 decent-to-very-good role players at the league minimum.

I think they'd be able to fill out a roster with decent veterans who will accept the minimum to chase a ring. They don't need multi-dimensional star players, they just need guys to fill roles like you said. A shooter, a 3 and D guy, a steady point guard, a rebounder/thug. Reminds me of when Lebron went to Miami and formed the first "superteam" - they got guys like Mike Miller, Juwan Howard, even Ray Allen who still had some tread left on the tires to complement the big three. Heck, Mario Chalmers was their point guard and they were still a dominant team. Add to that the allure of being in Hollywood to build your post-playing career connections and guys will want to come.

Of course, the other superteams (Miami, GS, Boston when Garnett and Allen came to join Pierce) all had situations where the superstars took slightly less money in order to fit under the cap. And there has been no talk of anybody doing that in LA.

[subzero02]

That's fair - but one need not have predicted a Suns-type season for the LAL to be on Team Fizzle last year. Lebron had been to the finals how many times in a row? Eight? Going 20-14 out of the gate, as you indicated ... that included 7-11 vs. eventual playoff teams, by my quick analysis. Ignoring other finer points, they might have been headed for the playoffs as a lower seed and being bounced in the first round. Coming from his lofty perch, that's still a fizzle in my book, and probably his as well.

The thing that leaves me SMH is that in addition to being a one of the all-time great players, he seems to think his exceptional abilities extend to the roles of coach and GM as well. And he doesn't just think it - he acts on it. That's where my admiration of him ends, as far as basketball is concerned.

Since several posters have tossed their hats into the team fizzle ring, I think the team members need to establish an accepted definition of fizzle. Also, what's the team motto and does it come with a membership card*?


*I may or may not be establishing the framework for my first pie bet.

[budwom]

Saw the front page article on Quinn...as much as he might be able to afford more in a city other than SF, he seems to have a great role with a great franchise, I'm not sure I'd want to jeopardize that..a good fit is a nice thing to have in the NBA.

[duke4ever19]

I know next-to-nothing about the financial aspect of sports leagues. For instance, how players and agents and teams negotiate salaries, trade/no-trade clauses, salary cap space etc. It's all a mystery to me and likely to remain so, because it simply doesn't interest me enough to wade deeper into the subject.

However,

Let's pretend for a second that Kawhi Leonard wakes up one morning and looks himself in the mirror and says, "Kawhi, you've won multiple championships, and you've made enough money to last four lifetimes. Let's now only focus on one thing: winning as many rings as possible, and salary be damned."

Could this hypothetical mercenary-like version of Kawhi Leonard spend the rest of his career jumping from contender-to-contender, because he is an amazing, franchising changing, player? And since he doesn't demand much -- if any -- salary, he would always allow for the possibility of adding another superstar to go along with the team he's chosen as having the best possibility of winning the championship?

Is it technically possible, or would agents, the league and other technicalities torpedo such a tactic? Has it already been done? Are 'super-teams' essentially a version of what I'm talking about?

Edit: I do understand that at some point, many of us have considered a college version of this. For example: If Zion, RJ and Cam had decided to return to Duke with Tre Jones and they all vowed that they weren't going anywhere until they bring home a title etc. In this case, it's a kind of wishful thinking on the part of the fans. However, if they had wanted to do it, there would be nothing stopping them, so long as they retained amateur status. However, a pro player in a league is different and trades can, and have, been torpedoed by the Commissioner (Chris Paul to the Lakers comes to mind).

[CDu]

I know next-to-nothing about the financial aspect of sports leagues. For instance, how players and agents and teams negotiate salaries, trade/no-trade clauses, salary cap space etc. It's all a mystery to me and likely to remain so, because it simply doesn't interest me enough to wade deeper into the subject.

However,

Let's pretend for a second that Kawhi Leonard wakes up one morning and looks himself in the mirror and says, "Kawhi, you've won multiple championships, and you've made enough money to last four lifetimes. Let's now only focus on one thing: winning as many rings as possible, and salary be damned."

Could this hypothetical mercenary-like version of Kawhi Leonard spend the rest of his career jumping from contender-to-contender, because he is an amazing, franchising changing, player? And since he doesn't demand much -- if any -- salary, he would always allow for the possibility of adding another superstar to go along with the team he's chosen as having the best possibility of winning the championship?

Is it technically possible, or would agents, the league and other technicalities torpedo such a tactic? Has it already been done? Are 'super-teams' essentially a version of what I'm talking about?

Edit: I do understand that at some point, many of us have considered a college version of this. For example: If Zion, RJ and Cam had decided to return to Duke with Tre Jones and they all vowed that they weren't going anywhere until they bring home a title etc. In this case, it's a kind of wishful thinking on the part of the fans. However, if they had wanted to do it, there would be nothing stopping them, so long as they retained amateur status. However, a pro player in a league is different and trades can, and have, been torpedoed by the Commissioner (Chris Paul to the Lakers comes to mind).

LeBron sort of did that with Cleveland, having short-term deals with opt-outs.

The only thing stopping Leonard from doing that would be risk. A career-changing injury could happen at any time. One-year deals are a risk.

The Chris Paul trade torpedo thing is different too. The Hornets were owned by the league at that point, so the league had a vested interest in not making a sham trade in their best interest.

[subzero02]

LeBron sort of did that with Cleveland, having short-term deals with opt-outs.

The only thing stopping Leonard from doing that would be risk. A career-changing injury could happen at any time. One-year deals are a risk.

The Chris Paul trade torpedo thing is different too. The Hornets were owned by the league at that point, so the league had a vested interest in not making a sham trade in their best interest.

The original poster is assuming that Leonard isn't concerned with his salary; therefore a one year deal would carry as much risk as a multi-year deal.

Technically Kawhi could sign one year deals for the league minimum over the next decade with a different team each year. So yes, Kawhi could cherry pick contenders each year and hop from one year contract to one year contract.

[JetpackJesus]

LeBron sort of did that with Cleveland, having short-term deals with opt-outs.

The only thing stopping Leonard from doing that would be risk. A career-changing injury could happen at any time. One-year deals are a risk.

The Chris Paul trade torpedo thing is different too. The Hornets were owned by the league at that point, so the league had a vested interest in not making a sham trade in their best interest.

I would add that the Player's Association would absolutely and strongly oppose a superstar player like Kawhi taking substantial pay cuts as proposed in the hypothetical.

[duke4ever19]

I would add that the Player's Association would absolutely and strongly oppose a superstar player like Kawhi taking substantial pay cuts as proposed in the hypothetical.

This makes a lot of sense. I think ‘hypothetical Kawhi’ would get severe backlash from media and fans. If people considered KD to Golden State, or LeBron to Miami (or back to Cleveland) a bit ‘controversial,’ then I could see a big risk to one’s legacy.
Still, though, if my ‘hypothetical Kawhi’ simply couldn’t care less about the backlash and answered honestly every time, ’I’m just trying to win as many championships as possible, and people can apply, or evaluate, the ethics of it as they like.” I wonder if he would begin to gain some kind of respect for not ever trying to pretend it was anything other than what he said it was.

[CDu]

The original poster is assuming that Leonard isn't concerned with his salary; therefore a one year deal would carry as much risk as a multi-year deal.

Technically Kawhi could sign one year deals for the league minimum over the next decade with a different team each year. So yes, Kawhi could cherry pick contenders each year and hop from one year contract to one year contract.


I would add that the Player's Association would absolutely and strongly oppose a superstar player like Kawhi taking substantial pay cuts as proposed in the hypothetical.

Yes, the union would vehemently oppose a superstar in his prime taking the minimum repeatedly.

But assuming the player doesn’t care about risk, he could absolutely sign one-year max deals over and over. That is basically what LeBron did after winning the title in Cleveland: signed a 2-year deal with an opt-out after one year, which he then exercised to go to LA. A player could choose to be more explicit if they wanted to, signing one year deals. So in a hypothetical sense, yes there is nothing stopping it.

In reality, players want the security. As do the teams to some extent: harder to plan to manage a team if the star players are signing one-year deals.

[subzero02]

Kawhi Leonard has asked to meet with Magic Johnson when he visits the Lakers.


https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/27076486/kawhi-requested-attend-lakers-meeting

[JetpackJesus]

Yes, the union would vehemently oppose a superstar in his prime taking the minimum repeatedly.

But assuming the player doesn’t care about risk, he could absolutely sign one-year max deals over and over. That is basically what LeBron did after winning the title in Cleveland: signed a 2-year deal with an opt-out after one year, which he then exercised to go to LA. A player could choose to be more explicit if they wanted to, signing one year deals. So in a hypothetical sense, yes there is nothing stopping it.

In reality, players want the security. As do the teams to some extent: harder to plan to manage a team if the star players are signing one-year deals.
I agree with everything you say here, but the hypothetical, as I read it, is proposing the superstar signs one-year deals way below the max (like veteran minimum) on various teams so they can add around him to chase rings. If he did that--signing at or near the minimum--he would basically be persona non grata among his colleagues, including his teammates. I don't think the NBAPA would actually care much if a superstar decided to just sign one year max deals over and over.

I guess the answer to the hypothetical is that nothing in the rules would prohibit a player from doing it. But the amount of things the player has to end up not caring about for the hypothetical to work takes us out to the point that we're not talking about a human being anymore.

[Steven43]

AD just "gave" away $4 million by waiving his trade kicker. Can any of us imagine just giving away $4 million?
There is no way in hell Anthony Davis gave away $4 million. Rest assured he will receive at least that amount in some other form of compensation. It might come from his role in Space Jam2. It might come in the form of endorsements that he otherwise would not have received. One way or another he will get that money. Anthony Davis did not give away even one nickel.

[cato]

Kawhi Leonard has asked to meet with Magic Johnson when he visits the Lakers.


https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/27076486/kawhi-requested-attend-lakers-meeting

Trolls so hard

[gep]

Yes, the union would vehemently oppose a superstar in his prime taking the minimum repeatedly.

But assuming the player doesn’t care about risk, he could absolutely sign one-year max deals over and over. That is basically what LeBron did after winning the title in Cleveland: signed a 2-year deal with an opt-out after one year, which he then exercised to go to LA. A player could choose to be more explicit if they wanted to, signing one year deals. So in a hypothetical sense, yes there is nothing stopping it.

In reality, players want the security. As do the teams to some extent: harder to plan to manage a team if the star players are signing one-year deals.

Didn't Michael Jordan sign 1-year deals in his last couple of years...:confused: Of course, they were all with the same team. As far as I remember, it was the 1-year deals or retirement... not going somewhere else. So, another era, I suppose...

[JetpackJesus]

Didn't Michael Jordan sign 1-year deals in his last couple of years...:confused: Of course, they were all with the same team. As far as I remember, it was the 1-year deals or retirement... not going somewhere else. So, another era, I suppose...
I don't think term really matters. It's all about the salary. Jordan changed the basketball landscape, I think. In 88 he signed an 8-year deal worth $25M. In 96 he signed a 30M+ deal. His last season with the Bulls was a 33M+ deal. Look at his last two years with the Bulls compared to his entire career up to that point!

Until 2017-18, no NBA player ever earned more in a single season than Jordan did in his last year with the Bulls.

[subzero02]

Darren Collison has announced his retirement from the NBA at the age of 31. He will focus on his faith, "I am one of Jehovah's Witnesses and my faith means everything to me." He was expected to sign for $10 to $12 million a year in free agency.

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/27078092/collison-retires-nba-31-focus-faith

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Darren Collison has announced his retirement from the NBA at the age of 31. He will focus on his faith, "I am one of Jehovah's Witnesses and my faith means everything to me." He was expected to sign for $10 to $12 million a year in free agency.

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/27078092/collison-retires-nba-31-focus-faith

Nice to see a young man of conviction decide some things are more important than money.
I wish him well.

[Indoor66]

Nice to see a young man of conviction decide some things are more important than money.
I wish him well.

I, too, wish him well and admire his dedication to his beliefs. His life may well be better....

[Owen Meany]

Trade kickers are put in place to protect players - so that if they choose to sign with a team (team A) they are compensated if that team then trades them away (since the player never agreed to play for team B). I was surprised when Davis's team demanded a trade with 1.5 years left on his contract and then let it be known that they would not waive the trade kicker. They wanted to be compensated for a trade that they forced to the team they wanted (also, a trade the Pelicans did not want). Now, Davis is getting kudos for giving up this trade bonus. He just have a heck of a PR guy.

[subzero02]

It looks like Kemba Walker has told the Hornets that he will sign with Boston tomorrow. The deal is reported to be for 4 years and $141 million.


Walker reportedly plans to commit to a four-year, $141 million maximum contract with Boston, The Athletic’s Shams Charania further reported .

[BD80]

It looks like Kemba Walker has told the Hornets that he will sign with Boston tomorrow. The deal is reported to be for 4 years and $141 million.

But, how will he fit in with Kyrie?

[duke4ever19]

I agree with everything you say here, but the hypothetical, as I read it, is proposing the superstar signs one-year deals way below the max (like veteran minimum) on various teams so they can add around him to chase rings. If he did that--signing at or near the minimum--he would basically be persona non grata among his colleagues, including his teammates. I don't think the NBAPA would actually care much if a superstar decided to just sign one year max deals over and over.

I guess the answer to the hypothetical is that nothing in the rules would prohibit a player from doing it. But the amount of things the player has to end up not caring about for the hypothetical to work takes us out to the point that we're not talking about a human being anymore.

Well, Kawhi's estimated worth is $35 million dollars. My hypothetical Kawhi is essentially the real Kawhi up to June 29th, 2019. He then wakes up and decides it's all about getting as many rings as possible. And remember, accepting the league minimum is still over a million dollars. Provided he didn't attend the Latrell Sprewell Institute for Business, he shouldn't be hurting for money.

[Steven43]

It looks like Kemba Walker has told the Hornets that he will sign with Boston tomorrow. The deal is reported to be for 4 years and $141 million.

Big signing for the C’s. Not only is Walker a very good PG — who fills a major void with both Kyrie Irving and Terry Rozier leaving — it also shows the league that Boston is indeed still a desirable destination for elite players. I could not be happier about this.

[cato]

Well, Kawhi's estimated worth is $35 million dollars. My hypothetical Kawhi is essentially the real Kawhi up to June 29th, 2019. He then wakes up and decides it's all about getting as many rings as possible. And remember, accepting the league minimum is still over a million dollars. Provided he didn't attend the Latrell Sprewell Institute for Business, he shouldn't be hurting for money.

I don’t understand this thought exercise.

[CDu]

Looking like Walker to the Celtics, Irving to the Nets, and Russell to the Lakers.

Possibly Durant and Leonard to join forces, either as Knicks or Clippers.

[budwom]

Looking like Walker to the Celtics, Irving to the Nets, and Russell to the Lakers.

Possibly Durant and Leonard to join forces, either as Knicks or Clippers.

Russell is exactly the sort of highly suboptimal "max guy" the Lakers would get...talented, scores a lot of points, a genuine drama king...low true shooting percentage....Fizzle meter just went up a few notches if this proves to be true.

[Steven43]

Russell is exactly the sort of highly suboptimal "max guy" the Lakers would get...talented, scores a lot of points, a genuine drama king...low true shooting percentage...Fizzle meter just went up a few notches if this proves to be true.

Exactly. As a Lakers hater I would be quite pleased with them getting Russell (and not getting Kawhi Leonard). Fingers crossed that this happens.

[budwom]

Exactly. As a Lakers hater I would be quite pleased with them getting Russell (and not getting Kawhi Leonard). Fingers crossed that this happens.

Team psychologist will need a raise, coach (the one on the bench, not the playing coach) will need a bucket of valium.

I'm no expert on how to mold an NBA team, but given the Lakers' dearth (numerically) of players, might it not be better to NOT seek a "star" max or near max guy and instead use that money for several lesser players who have good potential and might actually mesh? For example a PG like Tyus Jones, who's more interested in passing than shooting, plus a shooter? Otherwise they look to be top heavy, plus there's only one ball, IIRC.

[brevity]

I'm no expert on how to mold an NBA team, but given the Lakers' dearth (numerically) of players, might it not be better to NOT seek a "star" max or near max guy and instead use that money for several lesser players who have good potential and might actually mesh? For example a PG like Tyus Jones, who's more interested in passing than shooting, plus a shooter? Otherwise they look to be top heavy, plus there's only one ball, IIRC.

Ugh, don’t give the Lakers any ideas.*

Besides, the Lakers don’t even need to look at Tyus Jones because only a really expensive free agent can solve all their problems. If they miss out on Irving, Walker, and Russell, it’s no problem. Sign either Jimmy Butler or Harrison Barnes to max money and make him learn the point guard position. Team Fizzle!

* The organization has so much leadership that it probably has a VP in charge of reading DBR.

[arnie]

Ugh, don’t give the Lakers any ideas.*

Besides, the Lakers don’t even need to look at Tyus Jones because only a really expensive free agent can solve all their problems. If they miss out on Irving, Walker, and Russell, it’s no problem. Sign either Jimmy Butler or Harrison Barnes to max money and make him learn the point guard position. Team Fizzle!

* The organization has so much leadership that it probably has a VP in charge of reading DBR.

Lakers organization still far superior to Hornets. Hornets (or will it be Bobcats next year?) lost Kemba for no apparent reason and still have no cap space. Jordan/Cupcake duo not working and maybe they don’t really care; after all, NBA team ownership is very profitable.

[JasonEvans]

Lakers may be able to get Russell for around $20 mil a season, which would leave them about $10 mil to sign another quality player or two before they begin to hunt for veteran minimum guys. I see that as a smart strategy for them. If they land 3 decent players with that $30 mil of cap space, that goes a really long way toward building a team that can win it all.

-Jason "if Kawhi wants to come and you have to give him all your space, I can see that... but the Lakers should not use all their space on someone less than a franchise player" Evans

[budwom]

Ugh, don’t give the Lakers any ideas.*

Besides, the Lakers don’t even need to look at Tyus Jones because only a really expensive free agent can solve all their problems. If they miss out on Irving, Walker, and Russell, it’s no problem. Sign either Jimmy Butler or Harrison Barnes to max money and make him learn the point guard position. Team Fizzle!

* The organization has so much leadership that it probably has a VP in charge of reading DBR.

Butler is a perfect malcontent for the Lakers...as for Arnie's point that the Lakers are a better organization than the Hairnets, well, don't you have to be at least minimally organized to be an organization?

[JasonEvans]

For example a PG like Tyus Jones, who's more interested in passing than shooting

ESPN has an article (https://www.espn.com/nba/insider/story/_/id/27076926/projecting-starting-salary-every-nba-free-agent) predicting the salary and role for every free agent out there. I was stunned that they listed Tyus as the 7th most desirable free agent PG and say he will be a starter who should expect to make $8-10 mil/year.

Dukies:
PGs

Tyus Jones - starter, $8-10 mil
Seth Curry - key reserve, $5-7 mil
Austin Rivers - rotation A, $4-6 mil
Quin Cook - rotation A, minimum
Trevon Duval - developmental (G League)
SGs

JJ Redick - top starter, $12-14 mil
SFs

Rodney Hood - key reserve, $8-10 mil
PFs

Luol Deng - rotation B, minimum
Amile Jefferson - developmental (G League)
Cs - none

-Jason "this article is clearly not complete as it does not list Jabari Parker even though he is a free agent after Washington declined his $20 mil option. I would guess he would be a key reserve and in the $8-10 mil range" Evans

[JNort]

Russell is exactly the sort of highly suboptimal "max guy" the Lakers would get...talented, scores a lot of points, a genuine drama king...low true shooting percentage...Fizzle meter just went up a few notches if this proves to be true.

Seems unfair to Russell. He is only 22 and has outperformed most every pg in the league on his current trajectory. If the Lakers get him back they should consider themselves extremely lucky. Outside of the Nick Young incedent I haven't ever heard anything that indicates he is a drama king. Which to be fair it's not like DLO did the wrong thing morally there.

[budwom]

Seems unfair to Russell. He is only 22 and has outperformed most every pg in the league on his current trajectory. If the Lakers get him back they should consider themselves extremely lucky. Outside of the Nick Young incedent I haven't ever heard anything that indicates he is a drama king. Which to be fair it's not like DLO did the wrong thing morally there.

You may be right on the behavior front....but as a PG I think he's very much what the Lakers don't need...again, I'd divvy that money up and see if I can get a couple decent starters instead...

[JNort]

You may be right on the behavior front...but as a PG I think he's very much what the Lakers don't need...again, I'd divvy that money up and see if I can get a couple decent starters instead...

Well if DLO signs for what is being reported they will have enough left over to get another 1 or 2 decent role guys. I think it's a great signing as a balance for future and current success. LeBron should be cooked in another 2 years and they will have a ton of money with DLO just coming into his prime and AD firmly in his. That would be a good foundation imo.

[Steven43]

Lakers may be able to get Russell for around $20 mil a season, which would leave them about $10 mil to sign another quality player or two before they begin to hunt for veteran minimum guys. I see that as a smart strategy for them. If they land 3 decent players with that $30 mil of cap space, that goes a really long way toward building a team that can win it all.

-Jason "if Kawhi wants to come and you have to give him all your space, I can see that... but the Lakers should not use all their space on someone less than a franchise player" Evans
I read that D’Angelo Russell is eligible for a salary of $117.2 million over four years if he signs with a team other than the Nets. I don’t think there is any chance he would sign with the Lakers for only only $20 million a year for four years.

[subzero02]

It looks like Jimmy Butler will be going to Miami and Dragic+others will be heading to Philly.

[JasonEvans]

I read that D’Angelo Russell is eligible for a salary of $117.2 million over four years if he signs with a team other than the Nets. I don’t think there is any chance he would sign with the Lakers for only only $20 million a year for four years.

So you think someone is going to give him the max. I'm less sure about that but I suppose it might happen. I agree, he will not turn down a max contract, but if teams are offering less than the max then perhaps the Lakers can get him for something in the $20 mil range. He's young and has a lot of years left to earn big money. $20 mil is nothing to sneeze at.

That ESPN salary projection I linked a few posts ago had Russell making between $22-24 mil per season, not far off from my $20 mil figure that would allow the Lakers to also get 1 or 2 more decent free agents to round out the starting lineup.

-Jason "maybe Russell signs a 2 or 3 year deal with a player option that would allow him to go elsewhere for really big money if he does not like being in the shadow of Bron and Brow" Evans

[JasonEvans]

It looks like Jimmy Butler will be going to Miami and Dragic+others will be heading to Philly.

Will be interesting to see what Philly gets back. Tobias Harris, who is almost certain to re-sign with Philly, is a big fan of Josh Richardson. There is talk the Sizers will try to sign Horford with the room they make by not bringing Butler back. I doubt Philly has cap space to offer JJ much of anything in that scenario.

-Jason "if not Philly, JJ will have plenty of other suitors" Evans

[budwom]

Well if DLO signs for what is being reported they will have enough left over to get another 1 or 2 decent role guys. I think it's a great signing as a balance for future and current success. LeBron should be cooked in another 2 years and they will have a ton of money with DLO just coming into his prime and AD firmly in his. That would be a good foundation imo.

Well, two things come to mind: the first is I think he's going to cost enough (well over $20 million, are you expecting less?) to preclude getting the one or two decent role guys you mention...and the second is that they're still very short on bodies. If they spend well over $20 million on Russell, they may have a solid foundation, but not much of a building on top of it.

[budwom]

Will be interesting to see what Philly gets back. Tobias Harris, who is almost certain to re-sign with Philly, is a big fan of Josh Richardson. There is talk the Sizers will try to sign Horford with the room they make by not bringing Butler back. I doubt Philly has cap space to offer JJ much of anything in that scenario.

-Jason "if not Philly, JJ will have plenty of other suitors" Evans

Kings and Pelicans making a push for Horford...not sure how he'd mesh with Philadelphia...

[CDu]

Interesting. Durant now to the Nets.

[CDu]

Apparently Deandre Jordan will join Irving and Durant on the Nets as well.

[Steven43]

Apparently Deandre Jordan will join Irving and Durant on the Nets as well.

I don’t understand why Kevin Durant would want to play for the Brooklyn Nets. He could have gone to any team in the league and he chooses the Nets?? I don’t get it.

[MartyClark]

Interesting. Durant now to the Nets.

If true (not doubting you, CDu), I would think that Golden State feels some measure of relief. They won't have to pay KD 31 million next year to rehab.

[jwillfan]

"Knicks are furiously working on a sign-and-trade with Warriors for Quinn Cook"

https://twitter.com/PeterVecsey1/status/1145442705201176576

Not sure what to think about that - it would mean Quinn gets a bump but man that franchise is a dumpster fire

-JWF

"I grew up a Knicks fan living in NYC but that was the 70s when they were relevant"

[subzero02]

Interesting. Durant now to the Nets.

I guess Iggy was right... no one( neither Kevin nor Klay) is going to the Knicks.

[nmduke2001]

JJ Redick to New Orleans! Cameron South!

[flyingdutchdevil]

Jj to the Pelicans per Woj

Holy cow. Too many Dukies

[cato]

JJ Redick to New Orleans! Cameron South!

Yes! Love it

Love

It

[cato]

I don’t understand why Kevin Durant would want to play for the Brooklyn Nets. He could have gone to any team in the league and he chooses the Nets?? I don’t get it.

He’s choosing who he wants to play with.

Kyrie and Jordan — seems like a good move to me.

[UrinalCake]

Zion gets the floor spacer he needs, plus a real veteran to help mentor him and guide him along the way, teaching him to take care of his career and his body. Love it for both of them!

[Dukehk]

Zion ad JJ! What a combo.

Would love it if they got Horford as well. He could really be the perfect mentor and role model for young Zion.

[sagegrouse]

JJ Redick
Zion Williamson
Brandon Ingram
Jahlil Okafor
Frank Jackson

And Trajan Langdon is the GM.

[BD80]

JJ Redick to New Orleans! Cameron South!

My new favorite team!

Up there with my home town Pistons having Grant Hill and Christian Laettner.

[Steven43]

He’s choosing who he wants to play with.

Kyrie and Jordan — seems like a good move to me.
Yes, but with most players, particularly the elite ones who can pick and choose, it’s usually about much more than just who they will potentially play alongside. It’s also about the coach, the GM, the owner, the organization, the fanbase, the city, the tradition of the team, the player’s personal connection to the area, etc.

Kevin Durant to the Nets is a real shocker to me, whether Irving and Jordan are there or not.

[nmduke2001]

Can’t believe Milwaukee unwilling to pay Brogdon and sending him to.....Indy! Oladipo and Brogdon are a crazy good defensive backcourt and sneaky good offensively.

[cspan37421]

JJ Redick
Zion Williamson
Brandon Ingram
Jahlil Okafor
Frank Jackson

And Trajan Langdon is the GM.

Any truth to rumor they're changing their names to the New Orleans Brotherhood?
;)

Wonder what the historical record is for the most players from one school is on an NBA team.

Seriously though, hope it works well, or we're all going to be hearing about it.

[mkirsh]

JJ Redick
Zion Williamson
Brandon Ingram
Jahlil Okafor
Frank Jackson

And Trajan Langdon is the GM.

And they all (other than Trajan of course) could conceivably be on the court at the same time.

[roywhite]

Geaux Devils!

[DangerDevil]

Any truth to rumor they're changing their names to the New Orleans Brotherhood?
;)



I heard the change was going to be the Blue Orleans Brotherhood!

[brevity]

The Pelicans are dropping Kentucky players almost as fast as they are adding Duke players.

Woj (https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1145476068498989063): "Free agent Julius Randle has agreed to a three-year, $63M deal with the New York Knicks"

Darius Miller is still in NOLA, but he's an unrestricted free agent.

Meanwhile, Elton Brand and the Sixers are retaining Tobias Harris (https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1145469484200804354) (5 years, $180M) and Mike Scott (https://twitter.com/ShamsCharania/status/1145470808967585792) (2 years, $9.8M). I thought there were Philadelphia fans here. Was it just about Redick?

[hsheffield]

we've been planning a Fall trip to NO for a while-but now we really have a reason to go!!

anyone have any ideas about how to get Pelicans tickets?

(we've never been to an NBA game before)

[miramar]

And they all (other than Trajan of course) could conceivably be on the court at the same time.

This would be something like Felipe, Matty, and Jesus Alou playing in the outfield together for a few games for the SF Giants back in 1963, plus batting one right after the other one time (even though they went 0-3).

Maybe they could do it in Charlotte.

[miramar]

we've been planning a Fall trip to NO for a while-but now we really have a reason to go!!

anyone have any ideas about how to get Pelicans tickets?

(we've never been to an NBA game before)

And in a few seconds you will see a screaming Zion ad while wearing the Pelicans uniform.

I just wonder if this is Photoshop or if he screamed one time with his new duds.

https://www.nba.com/pelicans/schedule

[subzero02]

I heard the change was going to be the Blue Orleans Brotherhood!

I'd love a New Orleans Blue Devils T-shirt... if you violate 2 copyrights do they cancel each other out?

[BD80]

... I thought there were Philadelphia fans here. Was it just about Redick?

Yes. Insert WC Fields quote ...


I'd love a New Orleans Blue Devils T-shirt... if you violate 2 copyrights do they cancel each other out?

Yes. It is called the really unfair use doctrine. Popular in California courts, but nowhere where they apply logic or reasoning.

[Steven43]

I'd love a New Orleans Blue Devils T-shirt... if you violate 2 copyrights do they cancel each other out?

That would be cool. I’d wear it.

[UrinalCake]

And they all (other than Trajan of course) could conceivably be on the court at the same time.

Realistically, Jackson and Okafor aren’t going to play much.

[brlftz]

Realistically, Jackson and Okafor aren’t going to play much.

I think you’re wrong on both counts. Jackson looked promising last season and has a bright future, and I’m willing buy into the Jah I saw in that photo with Vernon

[nmduke2001]

I don’t get the Horford to Philly signing form either side. I guess Elton wants Philly to go big but I believe Al is best as a 5.

[ice-9]

Horford is a respectable shooter and the interior defense is going to be stifling with Embiid.

76ers look good. Richardson is underrated and Horford is the ultimate glue guy - he doesn't need the ball much to impact the game.

You probably don't need both Butler and Harris when you already have Embiid, Simmons and Richardson (or JJ prior to the trade).

The other big factor is that the 76ers are much worse with Embiid on the bench. Having Horford means they can stagger the lineups with Horford at the 5 when Embiid sits.

[Steven43]

Horford is a respectable shooter and the interior defense is going to be stifling with Embiid.

76ers look good. Richardson is underrated and Horford is the ultimate glue guy - he doesn't need the ball much to impact the game.

You probably don't need both Butler and Harris when you already have Embiid, Simmons and Richardson (or JJ prior to the trade).

Yeah, Horford is a big loss for the Celtics, at least for the next couple of seasons. After that he might not be worth the money he’s being paid, but for now it’s fairly devastating. I think the Celtics would have been title contenders — with the acquisition of Walker — had they been able to keep Horford, particularly if Gordon Hayward were to return to his form from two seasons ago andTatum and Brown were to take a step forward.

Al Horford is a very valuable player. If he were set on leaving Boston in order to get more money, I really wanted him to go to the Pelicans. The 76ers could be a serious threat over the next couple of seasons. This is a dispiriting development.

[JNort]

Reports are coming in that the Warriors are working on a sign and trade with the Nets to acquire D'Angelo Russel.



WHAT?!?!?!

[brevity]

Apparently, the Pelicans are not done today. They acquired Derrick Favors (https://nba.nbcsports.com/2019/06/30/report-pelicans-trading-for-jazz-big-derrick-favors/) in a trade with Utah. Terms (draft picks, cap space) are still unclear.

He and EuroLeague forward Nicolo Melli (https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1145455379733782534) (signed today for 2 years, $8M) will add to a frontcourt that already has Jahlil Okafor, Christian Wood, and recent lottery picks Zion Williamson and Jaxson Hayes. That's not including Brandon Ingram and other presumed wings.

Meanwhile, Utah puts more Carolina blue in their paint, adding Ed Davis (https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1145514087239041024) (2 years, $10M) to Tony Bradley.


Reports are coming in that the Warriors are working on a sign and trade with the Nets to acquire D'Angelo Russel.



WHAT?!?!?!

Woj (https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1145535080305242112): "Golden State and Brooklyn have agreed on a sign-and-trade, sending D’Angelo Russell to the Warriors on a four-year, $117M maximum contract, league sources tell ESPN."

[LasVegas]

Reports are coming in that the Warriors are working on a sign and trade with the Nets to acquire D'Angelo Russel.



WHAT?!?!?!

Warriors afraid to have only 3 All stars? Hilarious stuff. I’m not sold on Russel but GSW makes some moves.

[brevity]

Woj (https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1145535080305242112): "Golden State and Brooklyn have agreed on a sign-and-trade, sending D’Angelo Russell to the Warriors on a four-year, $117M maximum contract, league sources tell ESPN."

Shams Charania adds that the Warriors also acquire Treveon Graham and Shabazz Napier (https://twitter.com/ShamsCharania/status/1145533354730766338) in the Brooklyn trade.

Woj Shrapnel:

Adrian Wojnarowski (https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1145535975566843904) @wojespn

Golden State has to unload salary elsewhere to make this sign-and-trade happen --- which means Andre Iguodala could be on the move, league sources tell ESPN.

8:33 PM - 30 Jun 2019

Adrian Wojnarowski (https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1145537783207006208) @wojespn

Golden State is trading Andre Iguodala to the Memphis Grizzlies, league source tells ESPN. Warriors are sending a 2024 protected first-round pick in the 2024 (protected 1-4), 2025 (protected 1) and 2026 unprotected.

8:41 PM - 30 Jun 2019

[Steven43]

Warriors afraid to have only 3 All stars? Hilarious stuff. I’m not sold on Russel but GSW makes some moves.
I don’t follow you as far as the “hilarious” comment goes. Durant is gone. Klay Thompson just suffered a very bad injury, and if he does come back this season is he going to be at All Star level? I seriously doubt it. Demarcus Cousins is almost surely gone, but even if he stays he is nowhere near an All Star-level player. So that leaves two All Stars — Draymond Green and Stephen Curry. Additionally, D’Angelo Russell is pretty good, but he might never again make an All Star team. The jury is very much still out on him.

[BD80]

If they whiff on Kawhi Leonard, is there anyone left for the Lakers to sign?

[budwom]

Redick and his relentless work ethic is a great fit for NO....surprised he left the Northeast, but the money is good and it's only two years. Pad the bank account.

Anyone else think Tobias Harris at $180 million is just plain nuts? Good player, but to me not THAT good by any stretch.

Unless I missed something, Lakers look like they lost out...(Russell at $29 million seems very rich to me, surprised the Warriors did that)...

[CDu]

If they whiff on Kawhi Leonard, is there anyone left for the Lakers to sign?

Leonard is the last max guy left. If not him, then it would have to be a collection of lower-tier players. Crazy first day of free agency. Definitely did not see the Warriors trading for Russell.

[hsheffield]

And in a few seconds you will see a screaming Zion ad while wearing the Pelicans uniform.

I just wonder if this is Photoshop or if he screamed one time with his new duds.

https://www.nba.com/pelicans/schedule

thanks so much. the 'wait for it' part was key advice!!

[Matches]

Unless I missed something, Lakers look like they lost out...(Russell at $29 million seems very rich to me, surprised the Warriors did that)...

I would think it's Kawhi or bust for the Lakers at this point. They've still got a legit chance to end up with three arguably top-5, and certainly top-10, players in the NBA. That would be a win for them. On the other hand, if he goes elsewhere, most of the non-max secondary pieces they could have targeted (e.g. Redick) are off the board.

Cousins is still out there. Obviously not a Lakers target but the Celtics still need a big man. I wonder if they might make a run at him.

The Russell to GSW thing is weird to me. Do they intend to play Russell, Curry and Thompson together once Thompson heals up?

[moonpie23]

i can't remember a free agency period like this.....ever.


i think this upcoming year is going to be one of the most interesting seasons the nba has ever seen......so many moves, so much talent. so much ADJUSTMENT....

dubs came out pretty good, considering......and as others have stated, the Pelicans are my new fav team...

[devildeac]

If they whiff on Kawhi Leonard, is there anyone left for the Lakers to sign?

Ozzie may still be available. Rumor has it he's working on his Pick 2 (Panera) and (dinner) roll.

:p

[wsb3]

i can't remember a free agency period like this...ever.


i think this upcoming year is going to be one of the most interesting seasons the nba has ever seen...

The most wide open the league has been since? It seems that way to me but I don't follow the NBA or have a team like many of you do.. I wanted the Sixers to win with JJ, but that was because JJ is the Duke player I most wanted to see win a ring. I don't see that happening with the Pelicans in the next two years but I would love to be wrong.

[Steven43]

Anyone else think Tobias Harris at $180 million is just plain nuts? Good player, but to me not THAT good by any stretch.

Unless I missed something, Lakers look like they lost out...(Russell at $29 million seems very rich to me, surprised the Warriors did that)...

The salary structure in the NBA no longer makes any sense to me. I have no feel anymore for what is the “right” amount to pay a player. ANY player — from the bench guys to the elite stars. I’ve given up on trying to understand it.

[CDu]

Redick and his relentless work ethic is a great fit for NO...surprised he left the Northeast, but the money is good and it's only two years. Pad the bank account.

Anyone else think Tobias Harris at $180 million is just plain nuts? Good player, but to me not THAT good by any stretch.

Unless I missed something, Lakers look like they lost out...(Russell at $29 million seems very rich to me, surprised the Warriors did that)...

As Matches noted, the last domino to fall is Leonard. He was generally considered a "Clippers or Toronto" option. But the Lakers are trying hard to get him now.

If they don't get Kawhi, it will be considered a big miss to have not gotten ANY of the max guys when they clearly made the trades (and had AD waive his $4MM trade kicker) to get space for a max guy.

Not that it is necessarily the end of the world if they don't land a max guy, but in the sense that "max guy" was their goal it would be a huge whiff to not land any of them.

[budwom]

yeah, Lakers will look bad. No way to predict player moves, but I'd be surprised if Leonard chooses the Lakers where LBJ will still probably have to be The Guy, and even if he isn't that (as well as the de facto coach) the supporting cast
is, at this point, almost nonexistent....I would be guessing Clippers, though Toronto is supposedly offering the province of Saskatchewan in its entirety to Kawhi if he sticks around, and Saskatoon is a nice place.

I think the word on Lakers dysfunctionality really hurt them on the FA market.

[CDu]

The salary structure in the NBA no longer makes any sense to me. I have no feel anymore for what is the “right” amount to pay a player. ANY player — from the bench guys to the elite stars. I’ve given up on trying to understand it.

The issue is that the true superstars are underpaid by capping what they can make. This artificially inflates the salaries of the next tier of guys. Like Malcolm Brogdon. There was some discussion here of the Lakers being better off getting three next-tier guys (e.g., Brogdon, Redick, and Green) rather than a max guy like Russell or Irving/Walker. Well, Brogdon just got $22MM per year himself, and Redick got $13+ MM per year. I'd expect Green to get a pretty decent annual salary this summer too. You just can't get 2 "next-tier" guys for the price of one max guy. Because the max guys are underpaid, and because salary has to go somewhere, the next-tier guys are getting overpaid.

[UrinalCake]

I know this sounds dumb, but the other way to acquire a max player is to simply give max money to a non-max player (see Harrison Barnes two years ago). Guys like Kevon Looney are salivating right now with all that unused cap space floating around.

[flyingdutchdevil]

I know this sounds dumb, but the other way to acquire a max player is to simply give max money to a non-max player (see Harrison Barnes two years ago). Guys like Kevon Looney are salivating right now with all that unused cap space floating around.

Yeah- he'll be offered a near-max and I don't think the Dubs will bite.

It's amazing how the Dubs went from unquestionable top-of-the-NBA to shear uncertainty in <12 months. Next year, when could be a three-man team with Curry, Russell, and Green. Playoff bound for sure, but not elite like the last half decade.

[budwom]

The issue is that the true superstars are underpaid by capping what they can make. This artificially inflates the salaries of the next tier of guys. Like Malcolm Brogdon. There was some discussion here of the Lakers being better off getting three next-tier guys (e.g., Brogdon, Redick, and Green) rather than a max guy like Russell or Irving/Walker. Well, Brogdon just got $22MM per year himself, and Redick got $13+ MM per year. I'd expect Green to get a pretty decent annual salary this summer too. You just can't get 2 "next-tier" guys for the price of one max guy. Because the max guys are underpaid, and because salary has to go somewhere, the next-tier guys are getting overpaid.

yeah, I think that's true...I still don't get Tobias Harris at $36 million/yr for five years. I know numbers overall are stratopheric, but still, is the man worth that much?

[BobBender]

He’s choosing who he wants to play with.

Kyrie and Jordan — seems like a good move to me.

Former Blue Devil or not, I particularly don't understand why he would want to play with self-absorbed Kyrie. Where has he shown he is ANY kind of leader, essential for a lead guard?

[Highlander]

Lakers organization still far superior to Hornets. Hornets (or will it be Bobcats next year?) lost Kemba for no apparent reason and still have no cap space. Jordan/Cupcake duo not working and maybe they don’t really care; after all, NBA team ownership is very profitable.

So Hornets sign Rozier to 3 years/$50M, or around $19M a year. So much for working their way out of cap hell. Does anyone think Rozier is worth that? Was it part of the deal to get _something_ of value for Kemba?

[Hancock 4 Duke]

yeah, I think that's true...I still don't get Tobias Harris at $36 million/yr for five years. I know numbers overall are stratopheric, but still, is the man worth that much?

I have no idea how he earned that much. He was a decent player for the Sixers for sure, but nothing stellar.

[Matches]

So Hornets sign Rozier to 3 years/$50M, or around $19M a year. So much for working their way out of cap hell. Does anyone think Rozier is worth that? Was it part of the deal to get _something_ of value for Kemba?

Gotta have someone to play PG I guess. Tony Parker was the backup last year and he retired. 19 mil isn't crazy for a cromulent starting NBA PG.

Of course, it remains to be seen whether Rozier is a cromulent starting NBA PG.

And yea, when you adjust for the higher cap, they're basically paying Rozier the same thing they were paying Kemba. So little or no cap relief. Hornets gonna Hornet.

[arnie]

Gotta have someone to play PG I guess. Tony Parker was the backup last year and he retired. 19 mil isn't crazy for a cromulent starting NBA PG.

Of course, it remains to be seen whether Rozier is a cromulent starting NBA PG.

And yea, when you adjust for the higher cap, they're basically paying Rozier the same thing they were paying Kemba. So little or no cap relief. Hornets gonna Hornet.

Michael Jordan & Daniel Snyder are now joined by Mr. Dolan of the Knicks as most incompetent major sport owners. Think Jordan is the worst, but he has competition.

[CDu]

yeah, I think that's true...I still don't get Tobias Harris at $36 million/yr for five years. I know numbers overall are stratopheric, but still, is the man worth that much?

I think the issue is that the 76ers spent a bunch of value in trades this past season, and didn't want to have it all wash away for nothing. That, and they were headed into cap hell, so they weren't going to be able to easily acquire talent thereafter.

Harris is a really valuable player in the right spot (and Philly is that type of spot). But it was an overpay driven by situation.

[Matches]

Michael Jordan & Daniel Snyder are now joined by Mr. Dolan of the Knicks as most incompetent major sport owners. Think Jordan is the worst, but he has competition.

I'd rather have Jordan than either of those guys, but there is no one in professional sports worse than Jordan at evaluating talent. Dude almost *always* makes the wrong decisions.