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Billy Dat
06-10-2019, 01:56 PM
The US Announced the finalists for the squad that will compete in the 2019 FIBA World Cup taking place 8/31 - 9/15 in China.

Harrison Barnes
Bradley Beal
Anthony Davis
Andre Drummond
Eric Gordon
James Harden
Tobias Harris
Kyle Kuzma
Damian Lillard
Brook Lopez
Kevin Love
Kyle Lowry
CJ McCollum
Khris Middleton
Paul Millsap
Donovan Mitchell
Jayson Tatum
P.J. Tucker
Myles Turner
Kemba Walker

They'll eventually have to pare this list down to 12.

Here's the training schedule with the traditional camp in Las Vegas in early August and then a bunch of exhibition games in Australia including vs Australia (x2), Spain and Canada.
https://www.usab.com/mens/national-team/schedule.aspx

Pop replaces K as the head coach and his assistants are Kerr, Lloyd Pierce (Hawks HC) and Jay Wright.

As has been reported elsewhere, while they have not named the full Select Team (the team that scrimmages the Senior Team), Zion is going to be participating as part of it. (https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nba/2019/06/07/zion-williamson-invited-usa-basketball-training-camp/1383450001/) Van Gundy is coaching the Select Team, a cool nod to his achievements in guiding a collection of changing G-League and non-NBA Americans through the new FIBA World Cup qualifying process (https://www.nba.com/article/2018/12/02/usa-qualifies-fiba-world-cup).

pfrduke
06-10-2019, 02:20 PM
Is Davis really likely to participate? Surprised he didn’t take himself off the list given the uncertainty about his future status.

Lots of the best players in the US not on that final list. I understand why on each level those people aren’t playing (see comment above) but it may make the gap between the US and the field smaller and could make the tournament more interesting.

Truth&Justise
06-10-2019, 02:23 PM
I'll be watching closely. I really came of age as a USA basketball fan from 2000-2006, when losses were the norm. It still shapes my worldview on FIBA basketball. It seems like we're trending back in that direction--close calls in 2000 foretold of losses to come, and USA had plenty of close calls in 2016.

I'm glad there will be a minicamp with cuts, rather than just going down an invite list until 12 guys say yes. That's a step in the right direction. But USA will need to take this seriously to win.

CameronBornAndBred
06-10-2019, 02:37 PM
Lots of the best players in the US not on that final list. I understand why on each level those people aren’t playing (see comment above) but it may make the gap between the US and the field smaller and could make the tournament more interesting.

Way lots. I think K did a great job when he was at the helm of bringing the attitude of pride over status when it came to the national team, and I think Pop will continue that philosophy. That being said, it's still sadly astounding that the cream of the country's crop isn't the team that represents.

Billy Dat
06-10-2019, 02:48 PM
Lots of the best players in the US not on that final list. I understand why on each level those people aren’t playing (see comment above) but it may make the gap between the US and the field smaller and could make the tournament more interesting.


I'll be watching closely. I really came of age as a USA basketball fan from 2000-2006, when losses were the norm. It still shapes my worldview on FIBA basketball. It seems like we're trending back in that direction--close calls in 2000 foretold of losses to come, and USA had plenty of close calls in 2016. I'm glad there will be a minicamp with cuts, rather than just going down an invite list until 12 guys say yes. That's a step in the right direction. But USA will need to take this seriously to win.

The World Cup (formerly World Championships) has always featured "lesser" names than the Olympics since we reclaimed the Gold in 2008. The 2010 team and 2014 teams mostly featured guys that drew some of the same reactions as you had to this list, even though they later became superstars.

2010 - Durant, Westbrook, Curry
2014 - Klay, Harden, Cousins, Kyrie

I think this squad is a good mix of proven stars (Harden, Lillard, Beal, AD) and guys with FIBA experience (Love, Gordon, Barnes, Lowry plus some fresh new hungry faces (Mitchell) to get the job done. To me, it's a bit of a gap year before some of the really young studs can start to get invites, ala Tatum. I bet a bunch of those guys (Bagley, etc.) will be on the Select Team.

Billy Dat
06-10-2019, 02:54 PM
It's also a reminder that the top of the NBA isn't necessarily eligible to play for the USA

ALL NBA FIRST TEAM

F: Giannis Antetokounmpo, Milwaukee Bucks - not eligible
F: Paul George, Oklahoma City Thunder - has done his part, including suffering a grave injury participating in Team USA camp
C: Nikola Jokić, Denver Nuggets - not eligible
G: James Harden, Houston Rockets - participating, despite alreading participating in 2012, 14 and 16
G: Stephen Curry, Golden State Warriors - participated in 2010 and 2016

SECOND TEAM

F: Kevin Durant, Golden State Warriors - currently injured
F: Kawhi Leonard, Toronto Raptors - has never participated, which is odd. Something tells me Pop's coaching would keep him away
C: Joel Embiid, Philadelphia 76ers - not eligible
G: Damian Lillard, Portland Trail Blazers - participating
G: Kyrie Irving, Boston Celtics - already played in 2010, 2012 and 2016

THIRD TEAM

F: Blake Griffin, Detroit Pistons - has tried to participate many times but something always happened
F: LeBron James, Los Angeles Lakers - 2004, 2006, 2007, 2008, 2012, 2016 - the King has served
C: Rudy Gobert, Utah Jazz - not eligible
G: Russell Westbrook, Oklahoma City Thunder - 2010, 2014, 2016 - he has served
G: Kemba Walker, Charlotte Hornets - participating

Truth&Justise
06-10-2019, 02:55 PM
The World Cup (formerly World Championships) has always featured "lesser" names than the Olympics since we reclaimed the Gold in 2008. The 2010 team and 2014 teams mostly featured guys that drew some of the same reactions as you had to this list, even though they later became superstars.

2010 - Durant, Westbrook, Curry
2014 - Klay, Harden, Cousins, Kyrie

I think this squad is a good mix of proven stars (Harden, Lillard, Beal, AD) and guys with FIBA experience (Love, Gordon, Barnes, Lowry plus some fresh new hungry faces (Mitchell) to get the job done. To me, it's a bit of a gap year before some of the really young studs can start to get invites, ala Tatum. I bet a bunch of those guys (Bagley, etc.) will be on the Select Team.

I agree the talent level on this list is enough to win, like in 2010 or 2014. But I'm vigilant for any backsliding into the bad habits of some of the previous years. That's why I was relieved to see tryouts/minicamp/cuts, rather than just inviting guys. That's a good way to have a team that's focused and ready to compete. it's how someone like Kenneth Faried, who normally wouldn't represent Team USA, could play himself onto the team and be one of the best players in 2014.

Billy Dat
06-10-2019, 03:07 PM
I agree the talent level on this list is enough to win, like in 2010 or 2014. But I'm vigilant for any backsliding into the bad habits of some of the previous years. That's why I was relieved to see tryouts/minicamp/cuts, rather than just inviting guys. That's a good way to have a team that's focused and ready to compete. it's how someone like Kenneth Faried, who normally wouldn't represent Team USA, could play himself onto the team and be one of the best players in 2014.

If you really want to sober up, how about the list of guys who helped us qualify...and this is only a partial list as the process took years and they swapped guys in and out.

4 Josh Adams G 6-2 190 25 Raptors 905/Wyoming/Parker, CO
15 Kyle Casey F 6-7 225 28 Memphis Hustle/Harvard/Medway, MA
7 Chris Chiozza G 6-0 175 23 Capital City Go-Go/Florida/Memphis, TN
6 Charles Cooke G 6-5 195 24 Sioux Falls Skyforce / Dayton / Trenton, NJ
5 Michael Frazier II G 6-4 200 24 Rio Grande Valley Vipers/Florida/Tampa, FL
10 Reggie Hearn G 6-4 209 26 Stockton Kings/Northwestern/Fort Wayne, IN
11 Tanner McGrew F 6-8 250 25 Salt Lake City Stars/West Virginia Wesleyan/Buckhannon,WV
9 Xavier Munford G 6-3 190 26 Wisconsin Herd/Rhode Island /Newark, NJ
13 Chinanu Onuaku C 6-9 250 22 Greensboro Swarm/Louisville /Lanham, MD
14 Cameron Reynolds F 6-8 225 23 Stockton Kings/Tulane /Pearland, TX
8 Travis Trice G 6-2 177 25 Austin Spurs/Michigan State/Huber Heights, OH
12 Stephen Zimmerman C 6-11 240 22 Westchester Knicks / UNLV / Las Vegas, NV

The benefit is that all countries had the same qualification process so those that are heavy on NBA talent had to also field some rag-tag squads.

USA vs Canada should be the next great rivalry. Canada is on the cusp of having a really serious squad if all those big names play, starting with our guy RJ!!!!!

Truth&Justise
06-10-2019, 03:12 PM
If you really want to sober up, how about the list of guys who helped us qualify...and this is only a partial list as the process took years and they swapped guys in and out.

4 Josh Adams G 6-2 190 25 Raptors 905/Wyoming/Parker, CO
15 Kyle Casey F 6-7 225 28 Memphis Hustle/Harvard/Medway, MA
7 Chris Chiozza G 6-0 175 23 Capital City Go-Go/Florida/Memphis, TN
6 Charles Cooke G 6-5 195 24 Sioux Falls Skyforce / Dayton / Trenton, NJ
5 Michael Frazier II G 6-4 200 24 Rio Grande Valley Vipers/Florida/Tampa, FL
10 Reggie Hearn G 6-4 209 26 Stockton Kings/Northwestern/Fort Wayne, IN
11 Tanner McGrew F 6-8 250 25 Salt Lake City Stars/West Virginia Wesleyan/Buckhannon,WV
9 Xavier Munford G 6-3 190 26 Wisconsin Herd/Rhode Island /Newark, NJ
13 Chinanu Onuaku C 6-9 250 22 Greensboro Swarm/Louisville /Lanham, MD
14 Cameron Reynolds F 6-8 225 23 Stockton Kings/Tulane /Pearland, TX
8 Travis Trice G 6-2 177 25 Austin Spurs/Michigan State/Huber Heights, OH
12 Stephen Zimmerman C 6-11 240 22 Westchester Knicks / UNLV / Las Vegas, NV

The benefit is that all countries had the same qualification process so those that are heavy on NBA talent had to also field some rag-tag squads.

If you're going to list those guys, don't forget that Marshall played his part (https://www.usab.com/basketball/players/mens/p/plumlee-marshall.aspx), appearing in all 5 AmeriCup games in 2017. Incredibly that means Miles is the only Plumlee brother not to play for the USA senior national team.

Billy Dat
06-10-2019, 03:20 PM
If you're going to list those guys, don't forget that Marshall played his part (https://www.usab.com/basketball/players/mens/p/plumlee-marshall.aspx), appearing in all 5 AmeriCup games in 2017. Incredibly that means Miles is the only Plumlee brother not to play for the USA senior national team.

Good call, and Amile, too. Now that Miles has attended Burning Man (https://www.si.com/nba/2018/11/01/miles-plumlee-hawks-burning-man-unicycle-trae-young), something tells me he won't be making the climb to Senior Team Status.

elvis14
06-10-2019, 04:04 PM
I was so excited when I saw the subject line (although I thought the thread should be on the Off Topic board). With the World Cup starting Saturday and the USA Women getting ready to play tomorrow at 3pm....then I realized it was a hoops thread and hit mentions HWMNBN by name, no less. Argh!

:p

sagegrouse
06-10-2019, 06:25 PM
I was so excited when I saw the subject line (although I thought the thread should be on the Off Topic board). With the World Cup starting Saturday and the USA Women getting ready to play tomorrow at 3pm...then I realized it was a hoops thread and hit mentions HWMNBN by name, no less. Argh!

:p

Oh, Skype Boy is on the tryout list just so he can be the final cut.

NSDukeFan
06-11-2019, 12:29 PM
Oh, Skype Boy is on the tryout list just so he can be the final cut.

How will the coaches notify him that he’s been cut?

Neals384
06-11-2019, 02:07 PM
Good call, and Amile, too. Now that Miles has attended Burning Man (https://www.si.com/nba/2018/11/01/miles-plumlee-hawks-burning-man-unicycle-trae-young), something tells me he won't be making the climb to Senior Team Status.

Best part of that link is the unicycle video

mph
06-11-2019, 08:52 PM
How will the coaches notify him that he’s been cut?

By black pigeon?

Billy Dat
07-17-2019, 05:39 PM
Here comes Canada!
https://www.forbes.com/sites/adamzagoria/2019/07/17/knicks-rookie-r-j-barrett-is-on-canadas-world-cup-roster-minnesotas-andrew-wiggins-is-not/#566db0e8217d

JasonEvans
07-17-2019, 05:53 PM
Here comes Canada!
https://www.forbes.com/sites/adamzagoria/2019/07/17/knicks-rookie-r-j-barrett-is-on-canadas-world-cup-roster-minnesotas-andrew-wiggins-is-not/#566db0e8217d

What do we think? Maybe the second best team in the tournament? I think it is a virtual certainty that Canada will have the most NBA players outside of Team USA. Feels like Spain is getting older (Rubio and Gasols are not exactly in their prime any more). France has Gobert, Batum, and Fornier and Serbia could be really good with Jokic, Bogdanović, and several other NBAers.

-Jason "I'm gonna go ahead and guess right now that the medals go: USA, Canada, and then Serbia" Evans

Truth&Justise
07-17-2019, 06:32 PM
I'm a pessimist when it comes to these things. From 2000-06 the US routinely lost tournaments with talented but non-cohesive rosters. We've been on a fantastic run since then (THANK YOU COACH K!!), but we are seriously due for a loss, and have come very close recently.

It's awfully hard to meet the standard of "never lose a game, ever." To do that, you need some combination of 1) overwhelming talent, 2) roster cohesion, 3) serious commitment, and 4) some luck. The less you have in any one category, the higher the chances of an upset.

I fear #1--overwhelming talent--is starting to slip away. Here's the roster again:



Harrison Barnes
Bradley Beal
Anthony Davis
Andre Drummond
Eric Gordon
James Harden
Tobias Harris
Kyle Kuzma
Damian Lillard
Brook Lopez
Kevin Love
Kyle Lowry
CJ McCollum
Khris Middleton
Paul Millsap
Donovan Mitchell
Jayson Tatum
P.J. Tucker
Myles Turner
Kemba Walker

Anthony Davis recently announced he won't participate (https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/lakers-anthony-davis-to-skip-team-usa-training-camp-in-august-per-report/). That leaves six players who were All-Stars in 2019: Harden, Beal, Lillard, Lowry, Middleton, and Walker. A talented list, for sure, but there's a lot of positional overlap. And what happens if one or two more drop out? We'll have a very good roster, but not the sort of overwhelming top-level talent that can make every game a mismatch. Sure, we'll still destroy the minnows (like Japan), but in the knockout rounds will Canada, France, Australia, Serbia or Lithuania be that far behind a team whose stars are Kemba Walker, Kyle Lowry and Khris Middleton?

All of which is to say, the margin for error keeps creeping lower. No matter which 12 are selected, the US will be the favorites. But it won't be a sure thing.

ChillinDuke
07-17-2019, 07:08 PM
I'm a pessimist when it comes to these things. From 2000-06 the US routinely lost tournaments with talented but non-cohesive rosters. We've been on a fantastic run since then (THANK YOU COACH K!!), but we are seriously due for a loss, and have come very close recently.

It's awfully hard to meet the standard of "never lose a game, ever." To do that, you need some combination of 1) overwhelming talent, 2) roster cohesion, 3) serious commitment, and 4) some luck. The less you have in any one category, the higher the chances of an upset.

I fear #1--overwhelming talent--is starting to slip away. Here's the roster again:



Anthony Davis recently announced he won't participate (https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/lakers-anthony-davis-to-skip-team-usa-training-camp-in-august-per-report/). That leaves six players who were All-Stars in 2019: Harden, Beal, Lillard, Lowry, Middleton, and Walker. A talented list, for sure, but there's a lot of positional overlap. And what happens if one or two more drop out? We'll have a very good roster, but not the sort of overwhelming top-level talent that can make every game a mismatch. Sure, we'll still destroy the minnows (like Japan), but in the knockout rounds will Canada, France, Australia, Serbia or Lithuania be that far behind a team whose stars are Kemba Walker, Kyle Lowry and Khris Middleton?

All of which is to say, the margin for error keeps creeping lower. No matter which 12 are selected, the US will be the favorites. But it won't be a sure thing.

We get your a pessimist. But a lineup of Walker, Beal, Middleton, Love, Lopez? Lowry, McCollum, Harris, Barnes, Drummond as a 2nd line? YMMV on who gets plugged in where, but those don't strike me as lesser lineups. Assuming all those other top-tier countries are dealing with some declines, our team looks pretty great all things considered.

Maybe I'm missing something. Or maybe I'm an optimist.

- Chillin

NSDukeFan
07-17-2019, 07:47 PM
I can understand the optimist and pessimistic point of view. The good news for the US, is that if Canada is the closest talent wise, it won’t be any more cohesive than the US team, like some of the European and/or Argentinian teams recently. Unfortunately, Canada hasn’t won anything recently and hasn’t been in an Olympics or World Cup for awhile, so I am not expecting a silver medal by the team that couldn’t beat Uruguay when it needed to a couple years ago. I am hoping R.J. and the young guns will change this, but I want to see some wins against good teams first. The US team certainly doesn’t have the overwhelming talent of some of the past teams, but it should be more than enough to fairly easily beat any other country. Of course, single elimination means anything can happen.

JasonEvans
07-18-2019, 12:49 PM
Bovada has announced the odds (https://www.oddsshark.com/nba/fiba-world-cup-betting-odds) on who will win the World Cup:


USA -800
Serbia +900
Spain +1500
France +3300
Greece +3300
Australia +4000
Canada +4500
Lithuania +5000
Argentina +8000
Russia +9000
Italy +10000
Brazil +15000
Germany +15000
Turkey +15000
Poland +20000
Montenegro +25000
Puerto Rico +25000
New Zealand +30000
Czech Republic +40000
China +50000
Dominican Republic +50000
Nigeria +50000
Iran +75000
Angola +125000
Japan +125000
Jordan +125000
Philippines +125000
South Korea +125000
Tunisia +125000
Venezuela +125000
Ivory Coast +150000
Senegal +150000

Let me tell you, Canada at 45-1 is very tempting. You can also get +190 (almost 2 to 1) on Canada to win group H. Group H is really tough with both Australia and Lithuania in it (Senegal is going to get slaughtered) but Canada is going to have a roster with nothing but NBA guys on it. I may need to find a way to put some money on this.

-Jason "USA is -10,000 to win group E... meaning you bet $10,000 to win $100. Ha!!" Evans

hallcity
07-18-2019, 04:56 PM
Do we have a broadcast schedule for any of the games, either practice or FIBA?

Nrrrrvous
07-18-2019, 05:54 PM
Do we have a broadcast schedule for any of the games, either practice or FIBA?


https://www.usab.com/mens/national-team/wc-schedule.aspx

The practices are August 5 through 9th with a scrimmage or two. I'll have to do some more googling to find the schedule for that...

BD80
07-19-2019, 05:40 PM
Harden withdraws:

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/rockets-james-harden-withdraws-from-playing-for-united-states-national-team-in-fiba-world-cup-per-report/

JasonEvans
07-20-2019, 11:11 AM
Harden withdraws:

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/rockets-james-harden-withdraws-from-playing-for-united-states-national-team-in-fiba-world-cup-per-report/

The US is still going to be the favorite, but we are most assuredly sending the B (or maybe C) team to the World Cup. I mean, it is pretty clear that the US won't have anyone better than Jokic at this point, right? When was the last time the US didn't have the best player on the floor in every game they played in a major tournament?

hallcity
07-20-2019, 11:27 AM
The US is still going to be the favorite, but we are most assuredly sending the B (or maybe C) team to the World Cup. I mean, it is pretty clear that the US won't have anyone better than Jokic at this point, right? When was the last time the US didn't have the best player on the floor in every game they played in a major tournament?

Well, if Zion plays ...

JasonEvans
07-22-2019, 12:40 PM
The US is still going to be the favorite, but we are most assuredly sending the B (or maybe C) team to the World Cup. I mean, it is pretty clear that the US won't have anyone better than Jokic at this point, right? When was the last time the US didn't have the best player on the floor in every game they played in a major tournament?

Ok, this is getting ridiculous. In the past week the following players have withdrawn from consideration for Team USA: James Harden, Anthony Davis, Bradley Beal, CJ McCollum, and Eric Gordon.

There are only 15 players left trying out for the team: Kemba Walker, Damian Lillard, Andre Drummond, Kevin Love, Kyle Lowry, Khris Middleton, Myles Turner, Harrison Barnes, Tobias Harris, Kyle Kuzma, Brook Lopez, Paul Millsap, Donovan Mitchell, Jayson Tatum, and P.J. Tucker.

I get that our very best are not bothering to play in the World Cup, but only a few of these guys would even be considered the "B Team" when it comes to NBA stars. There's a good number of guys who I think are outside the top 30 players in the league.

-Jason "pretty clear that Pop does not have the respect that K did when it comes to getting players to commit to playing ;) " Evans

Truth&Justise
07-22-2019, 01:35 PM
I get that our very best are not bothering to play in the World Cup, but only a few of these guys would even be considered the "B Team" when it comes to NBA stars. There's a good number of guys who I think are outside the top 30 players in the league.

-Jason "pretty clear that Pop does not have the respect that K did when it comes to getting players to commit to playing ;) " Evans

Part of it is the absence of Coach K, and part of it is just cyclical.

Coach K was brought in after the losses in 2004, when there was some hunger to put the USA back on top. They used that opportunity to make players commit for 3-years, saying they'd only consider folks for the 2008 Olympics if they committed to trying out for the 2006 FIBA World Championship and 2007 FIBA Americas tournament. Over time that stance softened, and many spots on the 2016 Olympic team went to guys who had never played FIBA ball before (and in some cases, had never committed to the national team before), like Harrison Barnes, Jimmy Butler, DeAndre Jordan, Draymond Green and Kyle Lowry.

We'd likely be seeing a different response if trying out for this team was required to be considered for the 2020 Olympic team. But I think that's cyclical, and whenever our next loss happens (or next Olympic loss, that's a stronger motivator) we'll see a renewed push to get top players to commit long term.

Troublemaker
07-22-2019, 02:05 PM
Coach K had to deal with "B teams" all the time for the FIBA events, but the difference was that those "B teams" consisted of pre-prime players, often guys in their early-to-mid 20s, who had incredible talent but would need time to develop into superstars. Here, we do seem to be lacking superstar talent -- current or eventual -- and that is slightly disconcerting. Still, no excuses, Pop. The USA losing a game for the first time since 2006 would be viewed as surprising, and not winning the gold medal would be viewed as shocking and a failure.

Incidentally, to answer Jason's question, I probably would give Lillard equal footing with or maybe a slight edge over Jokic, considering defense is generally more important for bigs than for guards. Still, the point is made. We might not have the best player in the event.

JasonEvans
07-22-2019, 03:21 PM
Coach K had to deal with "B teams" all the time for the FIBA events, but the difference was that those "B teams" consisted of pre-prime players, often guys in their early-to-mid 20s, who had incredible talent but would need time to develop into superstars. Here, we do seem to be lacking superstar talent -- current or eventual -- and that is slightly disconcerting. Still, no excuses, Pop. The USA losing a game for the first time since 2006 would be viewed as surprising, and not winning the gold medal would be viewed as shocking and a failure.

Yeah, and I would probably prefer for Team USA to be made up of Donovan Mitchell, Jayson Tatum, Kyle Kuzma, Myles Turner, Trae Young, John Collins, Jaren Jackson Jr, DeAndre Ayton, Jaylen Brown, De'Arron Fox, Zion, and one or two more guys. Make it an "best players under 25" team and I would really get behind that, even if it made our odds of winning a little bit lower. All these guys saying "I don't want to waste my time playing for team USA" just pisses me off.


Incidentally, to answer Jason's question, I probably would give Lillard equal footing with or maybe a slight edge over Jokic, considering defense is generally more important for bigs than for guards. Still, the point is made. We might not have the best player in the event.

Jokic was first team All-NBA while Lillard was 2nd... but part of that is positional (G is more competitive than C in the modern NBA). It is a close call between the two of them.

hallcity
07-22-2019, 03:27 PM
@TheAthleticNBA is quoting Jerry Colangelo as saying Zion has withdrawn from the FIBA World Cup training.
https://twitter.com/ShamsCharania/status/1153371682326925312

Truth&Justise
07-22-2019, 04:51 PM
Yeah, and I would probably prefer for Team USA to be made up of Donovan Mitchell, Jayson Tatum, Kyle Kuzma, Myles Turner, Trae Young, John Collins, Jaren Jackson Jr, DeAndre Ayton, Jaylen Brown, De'Arron Fox, Zion, and one or two more guys. Make it an "best players under 25" team and I would really get behind that, even if it made our odds of winning a little bit lower. All these guys saying "I don't want to waste my time playing for team USA" just pisses me off.

I like the system used for men's soccer, where the focus is on the world-cup and the Olympics is a 23-and-under tournament. Here, the Olympics would be the main tournament, and the world cup would be more youth focused. And I agree I'd enjoy it even if the U.S. did so unilaterally.

But with one change to your list: Deandre Ayton is Bahamian.

JasonEvans
07-22-2019, 05:22 PM
I like the system used for men's soccer, where the focus is on the world-cup and the Olympics is a 23-and-under tournament. Here, the Olympics would be the main tournament, and the world cup would be more youth focused. And I agree I'd enjoy it even if the U.S. did so unilaterally.

But with one change to your list: Deandre Ayton is Bahamian.

Looks like a spot just opened up for Wendell Carter, Jr.

Seeing as the World Cup comes along every 4 years, the US FIBA World Cup team should consist of players who have been in the NBA 4 years or less. We'd still be the overwhelming favorite, I suspect.

https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-e491eb0a4024cc90f577a2cfa4610980.webp

BD80
07-22-2019, 06:10 PM
@TheAthleticNBA is quoting Jerry Colangelo as saying Zion has withdrawn from the FIBA World Cup training.
https://twitter.com/ShamsCharania/status/1153371682326925312

Ticket prices just plummeted, as did the advertising rates.

It is a 6 week commitment, and the entire world is saying he needs to concentrate on getting into basketball shape. Not sure the Team USA workouts will be high on conditioning.

JasonEvans
07-23-2019, 12:13 AM
Add Tobias Harris to the list of players opting to stay home and not play for Team USA. Supposedly, Lillard and KLove are also wavering a bit. Hardly surprising as it sorta looks like all the established stars are leaving and if you stay you look like someone who is lesser than them.

The latest talk is that Marcus Smart, Jaylen Brown, Thaddeus Young, De’Angelo Russell, and Aaron Gordon are going to be invited to the “select team” that will scrimmage against the main team (along with guys like Trae Young and John Collins) and of any of the select players play really well, they could easily make the main World Cup roster.

Jason “disgusted... I may be rooting for Canada or Serbia to win the Cup at this point” Evans

Dukehk
07-23-2019, 01:25 AM
People underestimate how good Coach K was at selling a vision and idea to superstar players. That was the key thing, building a culture in which everyone bought in and even guys like Durant and Kyrie would turn up for the World Cup.

Pop finding it hard to make that sell right now. Surprise surprise.

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
07-23-2019, 06:26 AM
People underestimate how good Coach K was at selling a vision and idea to superstar players. That was the key thing, building a culture in which everyone bought in and even guys like Durant and Kyrie would turn up for the World Cup.

Pop finding it hard to make that sell right now. Surprise surprise.

I think K was able to do that, partly because he was an "outsider" to professional basketball who was also making personal sacrifices to work with the team.

dukelifer
07-23-2019, 06:42 AM
I think K was able to do that, partly because he was an "outsider" to professional basketball who was also making personal sacrifices to work with the team.

I agree. Also K brings his West Point background from which he used to talk about sacrifice. K is highly respected and he got the key guys to buy into his vision. Pop is a great coach but has a rep of being very tough on players.

dukelifer
07-23-2019, 10:18 AM
Looks like a spot just opened up for Wendell Carter, Jr.

Seeing as the World Cup comes along every 4 years, the US FIBA World Cup team should consist of players who have been in the NBA 4 years or less. We'd still be the overwhelming favorite, I suspect.

https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-e491eb0a4024cc90f577a2cfa4610980.webp

Almost equivalent to playing college players who were usually juniors and seniors. The big challenge is generating a team that plays well together. That requires some leadership on the floor. I suspect the US will not win the gold and the stars will come back for the next big tourney.

Troublemaker
07-23-2019, 12:06 PM
Coach K had to deal with "B teams" all the time for the FIBA events, but the difference was that those "B teams" consisted of pre-prime players, often guys in their early-to-mid 20s, who had incredible talent but would need time to develop into superstars. Here, we do seem to be lacking superstar talent -- current or eventual -- and that is slightly disconcerting. Still, no excuses, Pop. The USA losing a game for the first time since 2006 would be viewed as surprising, and not winning the gold medal would be viewed as shocking and a failure.

Incidentally, to answer Jason's question, I probably would give Lillard equal footing with or maybe a slight edge over Jokic, considering defense is generally more important for bigs than for guards. Still, the point is made. We might not have the best player in the event.


Yeah, and I would probably prefer for Team USA to be made up of Donovan Mitchell, Jayson Tatum, Kyle Kuzma, Myles Turner, Trae Young, John Collins, Jaren Jackson Jr, DeAndre Ayton, Jaylen Brown, De'Arron Fox, Zion, and one or two more guys. Make it an "best players under 25" team and I would really get behind that, even if it made our odds of winning a little bit lower. All these guys saying "I don't want to waste my time playing for team USA" just pisses me off.

Jokic was first team All-NBA while Lillard was 2nd... but part of that is positional (G is more competitive than C in the modern NBA). It is a close call between the two of them.

Welp, it's moot since Lillard pulled out today: https://sports.yahoo.com/lillard-derozan-withdraw-team-usa-155459938.html

Colangelo still publicly confident:

"History would indicate this is nothing new, this is part of our process," Colangelo told reporters. "We're blessed with a lot of talents, and we're very deep. We'll take the cards that we are dealt."

Reilly
07-23-2019, 12:22 PM
USA has won the championship only 5 of the 17 times it has been played (including the last two times): 1954; 1986; 1994; 2010; 2014

MVPs from USA: Kirby Minter (1954); Shaq (1994); Durant (2010); Kyrie (2014). When the USA won in 1986, Petrovic of YUG was the MVP ... David Robinson was only USA player on first team in 1986.

1986 gold-winning team had Amaker on it. Here's the final game against Russia (2-point USA win): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nu__2mMYjH8

BD80
07-23-2019, 12:29 PM
Add Tobias Harris to the list of players opting to stay home and not play for Team USA. Supposedly, Lillard and KLove are also wavering a bit. Hardly surprising as it sorta looks like all the established stars are leaving and if you stay you look like someone who is lesser than them.

The latest talk is that Marcus Smart, Jaylen Brown, Thaddeus Young, De’Angelo Russell, and Aaron Gordon are going to be invited to the “select team” that will scrimmage against the main team (along with guys like Trae Young and John Collins) and of any of the select players play really well, they could easily make the main World Cup roster.

Jason “disgusted... I may be rooting for Canada or Serbia to win the Cup at this point” Evans

Lillard and DeRozan back out …

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/2019-team-usa-roster-update-damian-lillard-demar-derozan-among-growing-list-of-stars-to-withdraw-from-fiba-world-cup/

Last one in the gym, turn off the lights when you leave.

Troublemaker
07-23-2019, 12:30 PM
Almost equivalent to playing college players who were usually juniors and seniors. The big challenge is generating a team that plays well together. That requires some leadership on the floor. I suspect the US will not win the gold and the stars will come back for the next big tourney.

We should still be a big favorite. Current roster below (https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/2019-team-usa-roster-update-damian-lillard-demar-derozan-among-growing-list-of-stars-to-withdraw-from-fiba-world-cup/):

https://i.imgur.com/VesZEMI.png


Still enough for a great starting lineup and bench. As an example for the starters:

Walker - Mitchell - Middleton - Tatum - Turner

(That's just what I would do but could see Millsap or Tucker in for Jayson. In fact, I like the ability to have great role players / glue guys like PJ Tucker on the team. It potentially can be more like a real team, maybe.)

devildeac
07-23-2019, 12:33 PM
USA has won the championship only 5 of the 17 times it has been played (including the last two times): 1954; 1986; 1994; 2010; 2014

MVPs from USA: Kirby Minter (1954); Shaq (1994); Durant (2010); Kyrie (2014). When the USA won in 1986, Petrovic of YUG was the MVP ... David Robinson was only USA player on first team in 1986.

1986 gold-winning team had Amaker on it. Here's the final game against Russia (2-point USA win): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nu__2mMYjH8

Wait, I thought Russia got an extra 3 do-overs at the end of close games.

(yep, *still* too soon :mad:)

Reilly
07-23-2019, 01:41 PM
... I thought Russia got an extra 3 do-overs at the end of close games ... yep, *still* too soon ...

Not to derail the thread (but it probably will; it's July) ... I have no memory of the 1972 Olympics. I grew up hearing how the US was robbed -- egregiously so. Decades later, I finally read up on it all and tried to look at it in a somewhat in-depth manner (might've been spurred by some anniversary or a newspaper account) and I recall coming away from the closer inspection with the feeling that it was a series of somewhat understandable refereeing decisions -- reasonable in the moment -- and not egregiously wrong or ill-motivated. In other words, the Duke football "loss" to Miami on Halloween a few years ago is still the biggest injustice in the history of sports.

BD80
07-23-2019, 02:47 PM
Not to derail the thread (but it probably will; it's July) ... I have no memory of the 1972 Olympics. I grew up hearing how the US was robbed -- egregiously so. Decades later, I finally read up on it all and tried to look at it in a somewhat in-depth manner (might've been spurred by some anniversary or a newspaper account) and I recall coming away from the closer inspection with the feeling that it was a series of somewhat understandable refereeing decisions -- reasonable in the moment -- and not egregiously wrong or ill-motivated. In other words, the Duke football "loss" to Miami on Halloween a few years ago is still the biggest injustice in the history of sports.

Interesting take. You should offer your opinion to Chris Collins' dad Doug, should you ever see him at a cocktail party.

Truth&Justise
07-23-2019, 03:07 PM
All this talk of dwindling numbers and a preference for young players with star potential has got me wondering...where is Devin Booker? As far as I can tell he was part of the player pool a year ago, but didn't get an invite this year. Seems like his shooting would come in handy, and he's still just 22 years old. Great time to represent his country and get some experience in elimination games (goodness knows he's not getting that in Phoenix).

Anyone know why he hasn't been invited?

dukelifer
07-23-2019, 04:49 PM
We should still be a big favorite. Current roster below (https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/2019-team-usa-roster-update-damian-lillard-demar-derozan-among-growing-list-of-stars-to-withdraw-from-fiba-world-cup/):

https://i.imgur.com/VesZEMI.png


Still enough for a great starting lineup and bench. As an example for the starters:

Walker - Mitchell - Middleton - Tatum - Turner

(That's just what I would do but could see Millsap or Tucker in for Jayson. In fact, I like the ability to have great role players / glue guys like PJ Tucker on the team. It potentially can be more like a real team, maybe.)
I am not so sure. I don’t have a sense of whether their are any other good teams out there- like Spain or Argentina several years ago- but the US roster does not have a lot of international ball experience. It could be fine but I could see an upset.

moonpie23
07-23-2019, 05:40 PM
if they are indeed destined to lose, could it be arranged for the responsibility to fall squarely in the lap of HWMFNSNBM?

Troublemaker
07-23-2019, 05:48 PM
I am not so sure. I don’t have a sense of whether their are any other good teams out there- like Spain or Argentina several years ago- but the US roster does not have a lot of international ball experience. It could be fine but I could see an upset.

I could see an upset, too, but the talent to go undefeated is there. I especially like how there is a lot of shooting on the team, including bigs that can shoot.

Reasons unrelated to talent could be the cause of an upset.

superdave
07-23-2019, 05:51 PM
All this talk of dwindling numbers and a preference for young players with star potential has got me wondering...where is Devin Booker? As far as I can tell he was part of the player pool a year ago, but didn't get an invite this year. Seems like his shooting would come in handy, and he's still just 22 years old. Great time to represent his country and get some experience in elimination games (goodness knows he's not getting that in Phoenix).

Anyone know why he hasn't been invited?

Not sure where Booker is. He was previously on the list - https://www.nba.com/suns/devin-booker-named-35-player-roster-usa-basketballs-2018-20-mens-national-team#gref

What was Lillard's reasoning? Seems like a good time for him to take his game to another level.

sagegrouse
07-23-2019, 06:24 PM
Interesting take. You should offer your opinion to Chris Collins' dad Doug, should you ever see him at a cocktail party.

But before the first drink is served.

BD80
07-23-2019, 07:30 PM
...

What was Lillard's reasoning? Seems like a good time for him to take his game to another level.

More so a good time to take his brand to another level.

Owen Meany
07-25-2019, 11:43 PM
Mason Plumped has been added to the National team roster (where he will compete for one of the final 12 spots) and Bagley was chosen for the select team that will scrimmage them.
Congrats.

Owen Meany
07-26-2019, 12:10 AM
PLUMLEE. +$%- autocorrect. Too late to edit.

gep
07-26-2019, 12:16 AM
Wasn’t Mason on one of the Coach K World Cup teams?

JasonEvans
07-26-2019, 07:30 AM
Wasn’t Mason on one of the Coach K World Cup teams?

Yup, the 2014 team included Mason. It also had scrubs like Harden, Kyrie, Steph, Klay, Boogie, and the Brow.

-Jason "Mason was 11th out of 12 players in minutes played on that team... only Andre Drummond was lower" Evans

JasonEvans
07-26-2019, 07:36 AM
Mason Plumped...

https://media.makeameme.org/created/youve-been-plumped.jpg

frb
07-27-2019, 06:48 AM
there's no way this many guys pull out if Coach K is still the HC. As great a coach as Pop is, he doesn't have the relationship building ability K has.

Tazman10
07-27-2019, 10:20 AM
there's no way this many guys pull out if Coach K is still the HC. As great a coach as Pop is, he doesn't have the relationship building ability K has.

Well the picture of Bronnie in a Duke uniform tells me that LJ thinks a lot of Coach K and their time together so I too think it has to do with the leader. I would bet at least $100 that the US does not win the WC. I’m wondering if this team without a STAR will be a problem in that just about everyone of them will think they should be the STAR and it will take someone special to get them to play together and I do not think Pop is the answer. Coach K proved he could get stars to come off the bench and I don’t think Pop can do that.

JasonEvans
07-27-2019, 12:34 PM
Add Kevin Love and Paul Millsap to the list of guys who have pulled out of the team (https://deadspin.com/the-team-usa-rejections-are-getting-grim-1836733758). This thread already included the news that they asked JJ Redick to play but he is too busy moving his family to Nawlins so he said no. They also asked Montrezl Harrell and he has declined too. To be clear, Harrell is not even a starter (he's one of the best subs in the league, but still) and yet he does not want to even try out for Team USA.


As it stands, the participants who haven’t yet bowed out are Mason Plumlee, Jaylen Brown, Julius Randle, Marcus Smart, Thaddeus Young, Harrison Barnes, Andre Drummond, Kyle Kuzma, Brook Lopez, Kyle Lowry, Khris Middleton, Donovan Mitchell, Jayson Tatum, P.J. Tucker, Myles Turner, and Kemba Walker. Soon we’ll hear that Randle “was powerfully passionate about representing his country,” but might have left his oven on and really should go check on it.

We are still the overwhelming favorite. I mean, even if there are games where we don't have the best player on the floor, there will never be a game where Team USA's 3rd or 4th best player isn't miles better than his corresponding opponent and I suspect pretty much every other team in the tourney will have at least 1 starter who would not even make our 12-man roster.

-Jason "Still... the lack of patriotism is disappointing. Do these guys get paid by USA Basketball?" Evans

AGDukesky
07-27-2019, 02:41 PM
I certainly do not have much knowledge on the other teams in the tournament, but I would not be surprised to see the USA lose a game. I mean the last team to beat the national team wasn’t exactly full of NBA players. There is very little international experience and the coach is not crafting a team but rather barely scraping it together. A loss might be more likely in the group round when the team is learning to play together under international rules/style.

TheOldBattleship
07-27-2019, 04:34 PM
Add Kevin Love and Paul Millsap to the list of guys who have pulled out of the team (https://deadspin.com/the-team-usa-rejections-are-getting-grim-1836733758). This thread already included the news that they asked JJ Redick to play but he is too busy moving his family to Nawlins so he said no. They also asked Montrezl Harrell and he has declined too. To be clear, Harrell is not even a starter (he's one of the best subs in the league, but still) and yet he does not want to even try out for Team USA.

We are still the overwhelming favorite. I mean, even if there are games where we don't have the best player on the floor, there will never be a game where Team USA's 3rd or 4th best player isn't miles better than his corresponding opponent and I suspect pretty much every other team in the tourney will have at least 1 starter who would not even make our 12-man roster.

-Jason "Still... the lack of patriotism is disappointing. Do these guys get paid by USA Basketball?" Evans

I think a ton of this is tied into the craziness of the off-season, which was naturally also tied to the timing with the Warriors coming apart/taking a step back/whatever. I feel bad for Pop; this was about the worst possible summer to get the top-level guys to commit to playing. (Also at play: the fact that it's "just" the world cup, and the sense that, as I think someone said somewhere in this thread, we might be seeing that USA basketball just is going to go through ebbs and flows of interest as we peak (Dream team, Redeem team, etc.) and then, as the team completely dominates for a while, the interest wanes until a tough tournament or some other factor brings it back to the fore.)

It's really going to be interesting to see what the final roster looks like and how they end up playing: the pieces don't fit together super coherently offensively, but, man, you can see the bones of a heck of a defensive team here. Just picking out of a hat, lineup of, say, Lowry, Middleton, Brown, Young, and Turner would be TOUGH, and could be pretty versatile defensively, and you could easily put Smart, Tatum, Tucker, or Lopez/Drummond into that lineup and not lose a ton on that end, and if Mitchell really commits himself to that end of the floor, he could join that group (that would also be potentially big for the Jazz next year...). This is going to be a really interesting go-round with who makes the team and who doesn't; it'll say a lot about what Pop is looking for and how the team will end up playing, I think. Does he keep it more defense-focused? Or does he include guys who are more valuable on the offensive end (Randle, Barnes, Kuzma), since this team is going to be a bit low on consistent top scoring options?

Billy Dat
07-29-2019, 12:32 PM
I've always loved USA Basketball and have followed it extremely closely.

My understanding has always been that the coach does not get involved in the recruiting, that is nearly 100% Jerry Colangelo's job. As such, I think it's not correct that say that this team is experiencing defections because K is a great recruiter and Pop is not.

Adding to that, the idea that these players would rather play for K than Pop is also a stretch. A recent "The Athletic" piece did a survey of over 100 NBA players and Pop won the "Coach I'd Most Like to Play for" poll in a landslide - https://clutchpoints.com/spurs-news-gregg-popovich-is-the-coach-nba-players-most-want-to-play-for/
I don't think the current situations has anything to do with the coach.

I think the new World Cup format took the wind out of the sails of USA Basketball a little bit. The old schedule was every two years..World Cup...Olympics...World Cup, etc. The last major event where the upper echelon NBA guys played was 2016. While they did hold a mini-camp with Coach Pop last summer, it's been a longer stretch than usual so we've lost some momentum.

I think of Kyrie as the last young star to shine on the Team USA stage. When I scan the NBA Drafts since Kyrie, especially the 2013-2016 window that would potentially give us the young studs to embrace/leverage that Team USA platform, there aren't really that many who have become NBA stars. So, I think an under-reported part of this story, and one that the All NBA Teams highlight, is that there aren't that many "26 and under" American NBA superstars of the Lebron, Wade, AD variety. The players are still great, but they aren't yet superstars. A lot of they guys brought up through the Team USA pipeline at the U16-U19 levels in this bracket that I am talking about didn't become NBA stars - our Duke guys are cases in point - Jah, Tyus, Luke, Justise, etc.

I do worry a bit that we'll lack a go to guy ala Kobe in 2008, KD in 2010, KD/LBJ in 2012, to carry the scoring load when we need buckets, but I am sure one will emerge.

I have a lot of faith in the Colangelo infrastructure that has been built up. Many of these players in the pool have some FIBA experience and Team USA experience thanks to the younger competitions and the mini camps. In addition, the FIBA rules have gotten a lot more aligned with the NBA rules so it isn't such a foreign game. Pop, who was part of Larry Brown's staff in 2004 wants gold, Jerry G wants gold, etc. I feel like the structure is in place to leverage our overall depth advantage.

Truth&Justise
08-02-2019, 03:01 PM
Looks like roster attrition isn't unique to the U.S.

As reported on the front page yesterday, R.J. Barrett has withdrawn from the competition (https://www.thescore.com/fiba/news/1805554) to recover from a calf injury he sustained in summer league. No word on the reaction of Team Canada's general manager, Rowan Barrett Sr.

Today Dallas Mavericks center Dwight Powell also withdrew from the World Cup (https://finance.yahoo.com/news/report-mavs-dwight-powell-withdraws-from-team-canada-for-fiba-world-cup-170232127.html).

Canada should still have a super-talented backcourt with Jamal Murray, Cory Joseph, and Shai Gilgeous-Alexander, plus guys like Nik Stauskas and Dillon Brooks. But the front court has taken a hit with the absence of Powell and Tristan Thompson. Outside of Kelly Olynyk, Canada will have to turn to less proven players like Khem Birch, Chris Boucher, and Trey Lyles.

NSDukeFan
08-02-2019, 03:17 PM
Looks like roster attrition isn't unique to the U.S.

As reported on the front page yesterday, R.J. Barrett has withdrawn from the competition (https://www.thescore.com/fiba/news/1805554) to recover from a calf injury he sustained in summer league. No word on the reaction of Team Canada's general manager, Rowan Barrett Sr.

Today Dallas Mavericks center Dwight Powell also withdrew from the World Cup (https://finance.yahoo.com/news/report-mavs-dwight-powell-withdraws-from-team-canada-for-fiba-world-cup-170232127.html).

Canada should still have a super-talented backcourt with Jamal Murray, Cory Joseph, and Shai Gilgeous-Alexander, plus guys like Nik Stauskas and Dillon Brooks. But the front court has taken a hit with the absence of Powell and Tristan Thompson. Outside of Kelly Olynyk, Canada will have to turn to less proven players like Khem Birch, Chris Boucher, and Trey Lyles.
I have just received word that Rowan Barrett Sr. is not impressed with R.J.’s decision and is not giving him any more allowance.

Billy Dat
08-02-2019, 03:19 PM
The US had a few more defections with Andre Drummond and Montrezl Harrel opting out. But Bam Adebayo was added to the primary pool and Jaren Jackson Jr. was added to the Select Team (I think Landry Shamet bowed out)
https://www.nba.com/article/2019/08/01/bam-adebayo-added-team-usa-world-cup-camp

Jerry C is still bullish, and says Pop invited K to embed with the staff for part of training camp next week, which is awesome.
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/02/sports/basketball/usa-basketball-world-cup.html

devildeac
08-02-2019, 03:20 PM
I have just received word that Rowan Barrett Sr. is not impressed with R.J.’s decision and is not giving him any more allowance.

Now *that* is funny stuff. ;)

richardjackson199
08-03-2019, 02:15 PM
and Julius Randle is out

BD80
08-03-2019, 04:25 PM
Think I'll head to the gym and start practicing lay-ups. Just in case.

JasonEvans
08-05-2019, 09:28 AM
The Team USA training came begins today (https://www.usab.com/news-events/news/2019/08/mnt-wc-training-roster-add-august-3.aspx)and we should start to get hints about which players seem like they will make the team and which will get cut. I hope they give a long look at some off the select team guys who are younger and were invited to provide a training camp scrimmage opponent. Frankly, there are 5+ guys on this team who I think could get strong consideration for the main National Team.


The USA Basketball Select Team includes Jarrett Allen (Brooklyn Nets); Marvin Bagley III (Sacramento Kings); Mikal Bridges (Phoenix Suns); Jalen Brunson (Dallas Mavericks); John Collins (Atlanta Hawks); Pat Connaughton (Milwaukee Bucks); Torrey Craig (Denver Nuggets); De’Aaron Fox (Sacramento Kings); Joe Harris (Brooklyn Nets); Jonathan Isaac (Orlando Magic); Jaren Jackson Jr. (Memphis Grizzlies); Mitchell Robinson (New York Knicks); Derrick White (San Antonio Spurs); and Trae Young (Atlanta Hawks).

-Jason "Allen, Bagley, Collins, Fox, Harris, JJJr, and Trae should all be contenders for the main team" Evans

Billy Dat
08-05-2019, 10:54 AM
The Team USA training came begins today (https://www.usab.com/news-events/news/2019/08/mnt-wc-training-roster-add-august-3.aspx)and we should start to get hints about which players seem like they will make the team and which will get cut. I hope they give a long look at some off the select team guys who are younger and were invited to provide a training camp scrimmage opponent. Frankly, there are 5+ guys on this team who I think could get strong consideration for the main National Team.
-Jason "Allen, Bagley, Collins, Fox, Harris, JJJr, and Trae should all be contenders for the main team" Evans

As big of a college and NBA fan that I am, I have never heard of Torrey Craig of the Nuggets.

I just did some Googling and his is a pretty great beat-the-odds story ($)
https://theathletic.com/938371/2019/04/23/his-story-gives-you-goosebumps-on-the-winding-road-that-led-to-torrey-craigs-game-4-moment-with-the-nuggets/

I agree with Jason about the Select Team, it would be fun to see 1-2 of these guys get a call up, but I think Mason is the only guy who had ever made that leap (2014). If any year would be likely, it seems like this would be it.

Reddevil
08-05-2019, 12:23 PM
Add Kevin Love and Paul Millsap to the list of guys who have pulled out of the team (https://deadspin.com/the-team-usa-rejections-are-getting-grim-1836733758). This thread already included the news that they asked JJ Redick to play but he is too busy moving his family to Nawlins so he said no. They also asked Montrezl Harrell and he has declined too. To be clear, Harrell is not even a starter (he's one of the best subs in the league, but still) and yet he does not want to even try out for Team USA.



We are still the overwhelming favorite. I mean, even if there are games where we don't have the best player on the floor, there will never be a game where Team USA's 3rd or 4th best player isn't miles better than his corresponding opponent and I suspect pretty much every other team in the tourney will have at least 1 starter who would not even make our 12-man roster.

-Jason "Still... the lack of patriotism is disappointing. Do these guys get paid by USA Basketball?" Evans

Yeah, they should make it so that if you represent your country you get free college tuition! Uh, er, hmm......nevermind.

Truth&Justise
08-05-2019, 01:35 PM
Looks like roster attrition isn't unique to the U.S.

As reported on the front page yesterday, R.J. Barrett has withdrawn from the competition (https://www.thescore.com/fiba/news/1805554) to recover from a calf injury he sustained in summer league. No word on the reaction of Team Canada's general manager, Rowan Barrett Sr.

Today Dallas Mavericks center Dwight Powell also withdrew from the World Cup (https://finance.yahoo.com/news/report-mavs-dwight-powell-withdraws-from-team-canada-for-fiba-world-cup-170232127.html).

Canada should still have a super-talented backcourt with Jamal Murray, Cory Joseph, and Shai Gilgeous-Alexander, plus guys like Nik Stauskas and Dillon Brooks. But the front court has taken a hit with the absence of Powell and Tristan Thompson. Outside of Kelly Olynyk, Canada will have to turn to less proven players like Khem Birch, Chris Boucher, and Trey Lyles.

I spoke too soon: Jamal Murray and Shai Gilgeous-Alexander are also out (https://www.cbc.ca/sports/basketball/canada-basketball-updated-invitees-1.5236651). The list of NBA-players skipping the tournament, both for the US and other countries, continues to grow.

It's great that Antetokounmpo and Jokic are planning the play, but FIBA has a serious problem on their hands regarding the availability of NBA players. The competition overall suffers when the best players skip. They need to work with the NBA to find ways to encourage player participation---things like expanded insurance coverage for the teams, better scheduling, player compensation, etc. But this is the same organization that shifted qualifying to mid-year times when no NBA or Euroleague players can participate, so the odds of FIBA figuring this one out are slim.

Billy Dat
08-05-2019, 02:39 PM
It's great that Antetokounmpo and Jokic are planning the play, but FIBA has a serious problem on their hands regarding the availability of NBA players. The competition overall suffers when the best players skip. They need to work with the NBA to find ways to encourage player participation---things like expanded insurance coverage for the teams, better scheduling, player compensation, etc. But this is the same organization that shifted qualifying to mid-year times when no NBA or Euroleague players can participate, so the odds of FIBA figuring this one out are slim.

They first problem was using the World Cup as their model. It's a great aspiration, but until they cut the NBA in on the $$$ in a serious way (and by the NBA, I mean the owners), then they aren't going to get that cooperation. Still, the arc of history is long and as the NBA continues to spread wide across the globe, perhaps this tournament will grow to the point where the interest and money all align to make NBA owners want to adjust their league's schedule and make their best players available. If that all happens, and some major consistent rivals to the US can emerge over the long term, maybe this thing can take off.

JasonEvans
08-05-2019, 03:51 PM
It's great that Antetokounmpo and Jokic are planning the play, but FIBA has a serious problem on their hands regarding the availability of NBA players. The competition overall suffers when the best players skip. They need to work with the NBA to find ways to encourage player participation---things like expanded insurance coverage for the teams, better scheduling, player compensation, etc. But this is the same organization that shifted qualifying to mid-year times when no NBA or Euroleague players can participate, so the odds of FIBA figuring this one out are slim.

I wonder when the best time of year would be to hold this. Do it in the summer and NBA players are going to complain about their off-season being interrupted, doing it in August seems like a situation that makes sense -- when guys are gearing up to start training camp again -- but it does not seem to have worked at all. The money is probably a problem but without star players you are not going to get money and without money you are not going to get star players.

-Jason "I think the World Cup is never going to come close to the Olympics in terms of interest... if you are a star player, what is your incentive to play in this tourney?" Evans

MartyClark
08-05-2019, 06:50 PM
I wonder when the best time of year would be to hold this. Do it in the summer and NBA players are going to complain about their off-season being interrupted, doing it in August seems like a situation that makes sense -- when guys are gearing up to start training camp again -- but it does not seem to have worked at all. The money is probably a problem but without star players you are not going to get money and without money you are not going to get star players.

-Jason "I think the World Cup is never going to come close to the Olympics in terms of interest... if you are a star player, what is your incentive to play in this tourney?" Evans

Coach K made the World Cup relevant to NBA players. He may or may not be the greatest X and O coach of all time, but he is clearly a great organization guy, the straw that stirred the drink for USA basketball. He encouraged/recruited the greatest players in the NBA to play on the U.S. team, recent events show how great K was at this.

Now that Pop is in charge, I have to say that I just don't care. I'm not all that interested in the B Ball World Cup.

MarkD83
08-05-2019, 07:03 PM
In other news the us pan am team won the bronze medal

Billy Dat
08-05-2019, 09:13 PM
Quotes from Day 1
https://www.usab.com/news-events/news/2019/08/mnt-quotes-aug-5.aspx

Reilly
08-06-2019, 07:05 AM
Pop article: https://sports.yahoo.com/popovich-finally-gets-turn-leading-222813987.html?.tsrc=daily_mail&uh_test=1_02

I didn't realize the USA lost 2x in qualifying -- I guess those were the Jeff Van Gundy-coached teams.

Truth&Justise
08-06-2019, 11:00 AM
I didn't realize the USA lost 2x in qualifying -- I guess those were the Jeff Van Gundy-coached teams.

Those losses didn't get a lot of attention because the teams weren't very good.

On June 28, 2018, Team USA lost 70-78 to Mexico in Mexico City (http://www.fiba.basketball/basketballworldcup/2019/americas-qualifiers/game/2806/Mexico-USA#tab=boxscore). Here's the roster from that night:

Marcus Thornton
David Stockton
Alex Caruso
Nicholas Johnson
Rashawn Thomas
Xavier Munford
Reggie Hearn
Trey McKinney
Kevin Jones
Jonathan Holmes
Amile Jefferson
Taylor Braun

Other than Amile, I think most of us (aside from awhom) would be hard pressed to recognize more than half of these names.

On November 29, 2018, Team USA suffered a second loss, 80-63 playing in La Roja, Argentina (http://www.fiba.basketball/basketballworldcup/2019/americas-qualifiers/game/2911/Argentina-USA#|tab=boxscore). Here's the illustrious roster from that night:

Julian Williams-Washburn
Joel Berry
Scotty Hopson
Chasson Randle
Travis Trice
Deandre Liggins
Reggie Hearn
Eric Moreland
Richard Solomon III
John Jenkins
Cameron Reynolds
Tyler Zeller

Way too many Tar Heels, no wonder we lost. Argentina was led by a 38-year old Luis Scola, which I believe makes him the only person to beat Team USA three times (2002, 2004, 2018). And there are only a handful of people who have beaten Team USA twice: Argentines who were on the 2002 & 2004 teams, and Lithuanians on the 1998 & 2004 Teams.

But the takeaway is: even as badly as Team USA has been hit by defections for the 2019 tournament, the guys suiting up this summer are in a different stratosphere than the ones who lost last year. Hence why it really flew under the radar.

P.s.
If I told you a made up a name and inserted it into one of the rosters above, could you spot it?

JasonEvans
08-06-2019, 02:40 PM
P.s.
If I told you a made up a name and inserted it into one of the rosters above, could you spot it?

While I recognize many of the names on those teams from their college success or their high school recruiting process, there are at least 3-5 guys on each team who are a total mystery to me. If you inserted a couple fake names, I would not know.

I'm gonna go ahead and guess that Richard Solomon III is made up.

House P
08-06-2019, 03:36 PM
While I recognize many of the names on those teams from their college success or their high school recruiting process, there are at least 3-5 guys on each team who are a total mystery to me. If you inserted a couple fake names, I would not know.

I'm gonna go ahead and guess that Richard Solomon III is made up.

I was gonna guess that "Cameron Reynolds" was the fake name because I didn't see his cousin "Lawrence Joel Carmichael" listed. :D

Tripping William
08-06-2019, 03:39 PM
I was gonna guess that "Cameron Reynolds" was the fake name because I didn't see his cousin "Lawrence Joel Carmichael" listed. :D

Is Little John Cassell Sam's younger brother?

Truth&Justise
08-06-2019, 03:47 PM
P.s.
If I told you a made up a name and inserted it into one of the rosters above, could you spot it?


While I recognize many of the names on those teams from their college success or their high school recruiting process, there are at least 3-5 guys on each team who are a total mystery to me. If you inserted a couple fake names, I would not know.

I'm gonna go ahead and guess that Richard Solomon III is made up.


I was gonna guess that "Cameron Reynolds" was the fake name because I didn't see his cousin "Lawrence Joel Carmichael" listed. :D

Both good guesses, but I'll admit: it's a trick question. All of those names are real American basketball players who suited up for Team USA in the last year.

NSDukeFan
08-06-2019, 03:51 PM
Both good guesses, but I'll admit: it's a trick question. All of those names are real American basketball players who suited up for Team USA in the last year.

Now if you were to ask which of these players never took real university courses, then it wouldn’t be a trick question.

JasonEvans
08-06-2019, 10:11 PM
Marcus Thornton
David Stockton
Alex Caruso
Nicholas Johnson
Rashawn Thomas
Xavier Munford
Reggie Hearn
Trey McKinney
Kevin Jones
Jonathan Holmes
Amile Jefferson
Taylor Braun



Julian Williams-Washburn
Joel Berry
Scotty Hopson
Chasson Randle
Travis Trice
Deandre Liggins
Reggie Hearn
Eric Moreland
Richard Solomon III
John Jenkins
Cameron Reynolds
Tyler Zeller


So, here is a game... how many of the above players can you identify enough to know what college they attended?

I rock the second list as I can name the school of 9 of them: Berry, Hopson, Randle, Trice, Liggins, Hearn. Moreland, Jenkins, and Zeller
The first list is weaker: Stockton, Munford, Hearn, Holmes, and Amile.

JasonEvans
08-07-2019, 09:00 AM
Not sure if it has been mentioned, but the US isn't the only international team that has been hit pretty hard by NBA talent not willing to play in the World Cup. Team Canada has seen Jamaal Murray, RJ Barrett, Shai Gilgeous-Alexander, Dillon Brooks, and Trey Lyles pull out. I suspect all of them would have been favorites to make the team. In fact, I feel like Murray, SGA, RJ, and Lyles would have been starters. It has been known for a while that the Aussies will not have Ben Simmons, which could have really boosted their chances.

-Jason "you can still get 20-1 on Greece to win it all... and I really wonder if any team in the tourney will be able to stop Giannis" Evans

flyingdutchdevil
08-07-2019, 09:14 AM
Not sure if it has been mentioned, but the US isn't the only international team that has been hit pretty hard by NBA talent not willing to play in the World Cup. Team Canada has seen Jamaal Murray, RJ Barrett, Shai Gilgeous-Alexander, Dillon Brooks, and Trey Lyles pull out. I suspect all of them would have been favorites to make the team. In fact, I feel like Murray, SGA, RJ, and Lyles would have been starters. It has been known for a while that the Aussies will not have Ben Simmons, which could have really boosted their chances.

-Jason "you can still get 20-1 on Greece to win it all... and I really wonder if any team in the tourney will be able to stop Giannis" Evans

Looks like no one cares about the FIBA World Cup. And I can't blame them; it likely won't get a lot of exposure (although it should, given how basketball is continue to expand globally and is one of the fastest growing established sports).

The Olympics are so much bigger than the World Cup. Pops will get an incredible team for that event.

Billy Dat
08-07-2019, 10:02 AM
Looks like no one cares about the FIBA World Cup. And I can't blame them; it likely won't get a lot of exposure (although it should, given how basketball is continue to expand globally and is one of the fastest growing established sports).
The Olympics are so much bigger than the World Cup. Pops will get an incredible team for that event.

The word has always been that the rest of the world cares more about the World Cup than the Olympics, with the USA being the polar opposite. It's a tougher tournament in terms of the field and the format, but it lacks the cache here in the States.

I do think that crunching it together with the Olympics in back-to-back years has scared off players who don't want to make that large of a commitment.

CJ McCollum was on the Woj pod and said there were a number of reasons why guys chose not to play:
-Many teams are taking trips to China this summer and it would have meant two trips
-The league is wide open this year and guys want to be rested to really get after that chip
-Related to workload, they want to get their rest and, as the biggest names started to drop out, the "next biggest man up" felt like they were going to have to carry too much of a workload so they, too, bailed. They were fine as long as every game was going to be a blowout and the load would be shared equally, but they didn't want to be "the man" and have to play too many minutes.
-The tournament is later than usual and, therefore, too close to training camp

I think the current pool of guys is good enough and I look forward to watching them go for it. I especially hope our guy Jayson makes the team and it helps set him up for a next level 2019-20 NBA season.

JasonEvans
08-07-2019, 11:32 AM
I think the current pool of guys is good enough and I look forward to watching them go for it. I especially hope our guy Jayson makes the team and it helps set him up for a next level 2019-20 NBA season.

I'll be shocked if Tatum does not make it. Plumlee is the one who I think may have a harder time finding a roster spot.

Then again, it may depend on whether they really consider players from the select team. Fox has already moved up to the main World Cup roster and there are at least 5 other guys on the select team who could be contenders if they are given a chance (Allen, Bagley, Collins, JJJr, and Young).

If I had to guess, I would say the final 12-man roster will be (in order):

Walker, Lowry, Middleton, Smart, Mitchell, Tatum, Brown, Barnes, Lopez, Fox, Turner, and Young... though the roster is dominated by perimeter players and Pop may feel like he needs one more big. Can you get away with playing only one post player in the international game? K played Melo at PF quite effectively in the past. I could see Middleton, Barnes, or Tatum playing that role on this team.

JasonEvans
08-07-2019, 12:24 PM
If I had to guess, I would say the final 12-man roster will be (in order):

Walker, Lowry, Middleton, Smart, Mitchell, Tatum, Brown, Barnes, Lopez, Fox, Turner, and Young... though the roster is dominated by perimeter players and Pop may feel like he needs one more big. Can you get away with playing only one post player in the international game? K played Melo at PF quite effectively in the past. I could see Middleton, Barnes, or Tatum playing that role on this team.

Right on cue, here is one SI writer's take (https://www.si.com/nba/2019/08/06/team-usa-fiba-world-cup-lakers-celtics-kemba-walker-donovan-mitchell?utm_campaign=sinow&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&xid=socialflow_twitter_si&__twitter_impression=true)on who should be on the 12-man roster:

Guards: Walker, Mitchell, Lowry, Fox
Forwards: Middleton, Tatum, Kuzma, Brown, Barnes
Bigs: Turner, Lopez, Adebayo

-Jason "the big difference in my roster is I like Smart a lot and don't think all that much of Kuzma for this team... maybe I am overrating the importance of defense" Evans

Billy Dat
08-07-2019, 12:56 PM
I'll be shocked if Tatum does not make it. Plumlee is the one who I think may have a harder time finding a roster spot.

I think MP2s primary advantage is his knowledge of Jokic who represents the best player on arguably the toughest team we'll face. It's not strongly compelling but I do think it is a little ace up his sleeve. I doubt he makes it, but he does have prior FIBA experience, too...so maybe.

Billy Dat
08-07-2019, 03:24 PM
https://twitter.com/usabasketball/status/1159179331781853184

What do you call a group of GOATS? Trip? Tribe?

Truth&Justise
08-07-2019, 04:07 PM
I think MP2s primary advantage is his knowledge of Jokic who represents the best player on arguably the toughest team we'll face. It's not strongly compelling but I do think it is a little ace up his sleeve. I doubt he makes it, but he does have prior FIBA experience, too...so maybe.

Yeah, Mason's biggest advantage is experience, because there is barely any international experience on this roster.

--Olympic Basketball: Kyle Lowry ('16), Harrison Barnes ('16)

--FIBA World Cup: Mason Plumlee ('14)

--FIBA U19 World Championship: Jayson Tatum ('15), Marcus Smart ('13)

--FIBA U17 World Championship: Jayson Tatum ('14)

--FIBA Americas U18: Jaylen Brown ('14), Myles Turner ('14), Marcus Smart ('12), Mason Plumlee ('08), Kemba Walker ('08), PJ Tucker ('04)

--FIBA Americas U16: Jayson Tatum ('13)

--No international competitions: Bam Adebayo, Kyle Kuzma, Brook Lopez, Khris Middleton, Donovan Mitchell, Thaddeus Young (plus De'Aron Fox and Joe Harris, who reportedly are practicing with the main team)

Billy Dat
08-07-2019, 05:40 PM
@TheSteinLine
No official announcement yet, of course, but go ahead and put Sacramento's De'Aaron Fox's name on the Team USA roster for China. Consistently standing out and making the right decision every time the media is in allowed in the gym here in Vegas ...

@TheSteinLine
Boston's Marcus Smart is out indefinitely for Team USA with calf tightness. Will be re-evaluated next week ...

Billy Dat
08-08-2019, 12:28 PM
"What is Gregg Popovich doing coaching Team USA?" by Brian Windhorst
https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/27343815/what-gregg-popovich-doing-coaching-team-usa

"Without proven superstars, Team USA is probably going to have to be carried at times by a system. The Americans can't rely on the tremendous driving ability of LeBron James or world-class shot-creators such as Kevin Durant or James Harden in this cycle. The mega-stars are not here. They'll lean on a coach who believes in a style that tests players' aptitude, selflessness and sense of humor.

They will have to move the ball, because under FIBA rules, there is no illegal defense and teams just dare the U.S. to shoot. Fairly or not, there is no one on this roster that opponents will fear. Popovich's San Antonio teams have moved the ball better than anyone else over the past 20 years. But that's a process, one he now needs to rush.

"We've had guys in the past who are great isolation players, but we can't rely on that with this team," center Myles Turner said. "His emphasis is 0.5. You have half a second, shoot it, pass it and go. We're learning."

That strategy and system are going to have to be the Americans' bedrock. Popovich's ability to get the team to buy in could be the difference between a gold medal and having a black mark on his résumé."

Truth&Justise
08-08-2019, 12:42 PM
"What is Gregg Popovich doing coaching Team USA?" by Brian Windhorst
https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/27343815/what-gregg-popovich-doing-coaching-team-usa

Learned from this article that Pop was an assistant in 2002 and 2004. Certainly don't think he should shoulder any blame for those losses, but if we don't win this thing this year, that'd be a really weird and unlucky international resume for him.

Billy Dat
08-08-2019, 01:15 PM
Learned from this article that Pop was an assistant in 2002 and 2004. Certainly don't think he should shoulder any blame for those losses, but if we don't win this thing this year, that'd be a really weird and unlucky international resume for him.

Really, a complete disaster when you factor in his connection to 1972 as an alternate on the team.

Aside from Serbia, I definitely sweat Australia. Those guys have played together for a long time, have a starting 5 of NBA players (Bogut, Baynes, Delly, Mills and Ingles) and always play us tough.

Here are the current FIBA World Rankings which aren't a great barometer of who is good now, but a bit instructive
http://www.fiba.basketball/rankingmen

Lithuania is always tough. Slovenia didn't make it through qualifying despite winning Eurobasket last year, which is kind of a joke and means FIBA needs to get their qualification process to align with the NBA season in a better way so that the top guys are being showcased in these tournaments:
https://www.sbnation.com/2018/12/3/18123499/fiba-world-cup-qualify-luka-doncic-slovenia-mavericks

Troublemaker
08-08-2019, 03:30 PM
Really, a complete disaster when you factor in his connection to 1972 as an alternate on the team.

Aside from Serbia, I definitely sweat Australia. Those guys have played together for a long time, have a starting 5 of NBA players (Bogut, Baynes, Delly, Mills and Ingles) and always play us tough.

The problem with Australia's chances to beat the USA is that the USA will scrimmage them twice in Melbourne. I think if USA is going to lose, an element of surprise needs to be present. And the Aussies probably can't go full vanilla playing at home in those two exhibitions; they're going to want to not get embarrassed.

Billy Dat
08-08-2019, 04:00 PM
The problem with Australia's chances to beat the USA is that the USA will scrimmage them twice in Melbourne. I think if USA is going to lose, an element of surprise needs to be present. And the Aussies probably can't go full vanilla playing at home in those two exhibitions; they're going to want to not get embarrassed.

They are playing this game in a "football" stadium and have sold 90,000 tickets!!!!!!

https://www.usab.com/news-events/news/2018/11/2019-mnt-melbourne-exhibition-sold-out.aspx

JasonEvans
08-08-2019, 11:31 PM
The word from USA Basketball camp in Vegas is that Marvin Bagley and Derrick White have both played really well with the Select Team and are likely to join Fox in being called up to the main squad with a shot at making the 12 man FIBA roster.

Billy Dat
08-09-2019, 09:24 AM
The word from USA Basketball camp in Vegas is that Marvin Bagley and Derrick White have both played really well with the Select Team and are likely to join Fox in being called up to the main squad with a shot at making the 12 man FIBA roster.

@TheSteinLine
As @USABasketball prepares for its fourth day of practice in Las Vegas, I'm told Sacramento's Marvin Bagley and San Antonio's Derrick White have emerged as the strongest of contenders to be included in the roughly 15-man contingent expected to proceed to Los Angeles next week

ric_bucher (IG)
Derrick White is being invited to LA when Team USA reconvenes there next week, a program official told me, which essentially means he has been promoted from the select practice squad to the World Cup roster. (Look for Marvin Bagley to be promoted as well.) One coach told me White was the best player on either team in the Day 2 scrimmages and on Day 3 I saw him damn near replicate that with my own eyes as the select squad played the World Cup squad to a draw in consecutive 10-minute scrimmages. With that, I owe one of my Twitter followers an apology. Last season he touted White as one of the league’s next superstars and I scoffed at the time; I thought he was good but I hadn’t seen anything that merited all that. I have now. He still has to develop a 3-pt shot but his vision and court savvy were on full display as he either hit guys even before they knew they were open or created space to get his own; all that with + defense if not ++ defense. As a Spurs beat writer said to me, “The Spurs found another one.” Indeed they have. Let’s be clear: this isn’t a star-studded camp and White is far from a finished product. But he has elements you can’t teach and the physical tools to utilize them. Do not be surprised if he is both on this summer’s World Cup squad AND next summer’s Olympic squad — in part because the program intends to go young with the team playing back-to-back summers, in part because White has been that good. If I sound hyped, it’s because I am. I love both surprises and players who dominate simply by seeing what’s there a half-second before everybody else. That’s DW.

DUKIECB
08-09-2019, 01:27 PM
Someone really needs to introduce Tatum to a razor. That half beard monstrosity he's got going on in the picture on the home page is a mess.

Billy Dat
08-09-2019, 01:49 PM
Someone really needs to introduce Tatum to a razor. That half beard monstrosity he's got going on in the picture on the home page is a mess.

Yes, Mr. Burns.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gjHOtxCRhnw

Billy Dat
08-09-2019, 02:29 PM
There is a televised/streamed Blue/White scrimmage tonight at 10PM EST.

https://www.usab.com/news-events/news/2019/08/mnt-blue-white-teams.aspx

NBA TV will televise the USA intrasquad exhibition and the game will also be streamed live on Twitch at https://www.twitch.tv/nba.

Blue Team (which is, essentially, the most serious candidates to make the team)
Bam Adebayo (Miami Heat); Harrison Barnes (Sacramento Kings); Jaylen Brown (Boston Celtics); Kyle Kuzma (Los Angeles Lakers); Brook Lopez (Milwaukee Bucks); Khris Middleton (Milwaukee Bucks); Donovan Mitchell (Utah Jazz); Mason Plumlee (Denver Nuggets), Jayson Tatum (Boston Celtics); P.J. Tucker (Houston Rockets); Myles Turner (Indiana Pacers); Kemba Walker (Boston Celtics); and Thaddeus Young (Chicago Bulls). Additionally, USA Select Team members De’Aaron Fox (Sacramento Kings) and Joe Harris (Brooklyn Nets) will suit up for the USA Blue, while USA National Team members Kyle Lowry (Toronto Raptors) and Marcus Smart (Boston Celtics) will attend but will not play due to injuries.

White Team includes Select Team players Jarrett Allen (Brooklyn Nets); Marvin Bagley III (Sacramento Kings); Mikal Bridges (Phoenix Suns); Jalen Brunson (Dallas Mavericks); John Collins (Atlanta Hawks); Pat Connaughton (Milwaukee Bucks); Torrey Craig (Denver Nuggets); Jonathan Isaac (Orlando Magic); Jaren Jackson Jr. (Memphis Grizzlies); Mitchell Robinson (New York Knicks); and Derrick White (San Antonio Spurs). Trae Young (Atlanta Hawks) will miss the exhibition because of an eye-infection.

Truth&Justise
08-09-2019, 03:32 PM
White Team includes Select Team players Jarrett Allen (Brooklyn Nets); Marvin Bagley III (Sacramento Kings); Mikal Bridges (Phoenix Suns); Jalen Brunson (Dallas Mavericks); John Collins (Atlanta Hawks); Pat Connaughton (Milwaukee Bucks); Torrey Craig (Denver Nuggets); Jonathan Isaac (Orlando Magic); Jaren Jackson Jr. (Memphis Grizzlies); Mitchell Robinson (New York Knicks); and Derrick White (San Antonio Spurs). Trae Young (Atlanta Hawks) will miss the exhibition because of an eye-infection.

This team is super-unbalanced now. De'Aron Fox and Joe Harris got poached by the senior team while Lowry and Smart are out. Now Trae Young is injured. So the guards for this team are just Derrick White, Jalen Brunson, and Pat Connaughton... and maybe Torrey Craig also. If Derrick White wants to make the senior team he'll have his chance, looks like he's about to play 40 minutes.

Billy Dat
08-10-2019, 09:34 AM
I watched the Blue/White and my primary impressions were:

-Unfortunately, there is no real play-by-play announcing, which reminded me of why I don't like watching summer league very much, so it wasn't always easy to figure out who was who. I find that when guys are in new uniforms and your eyesight isn't what it used to be, recognizing players you don't watch all the time is tough.

-That being said, youth was served. Mitchell, Fox and Tatum all showed out. In general, I thought the young bigs on the Select Team...Marvin, Jonathan Isaac, John Collins, JJacksonJr...looked better than the White Team big

-If Tatum keeps shooting this well from 3, he's gonna make the squad and get a lot of PT.

-Congrats to Marvin who was bumped up to the pool of potential players and will continue in training camp this week.

-The game was pretty run and gun, which plays to the USA style advantage. The FIBA games won't be like that so it's hard to tell how good we'll be once the game slows down starting with next week's Spain scrimmage.

CameronBornAndBred
08-10-2019, 11:58 AM
After the game, USA Basketball managing director Jerry Colangelo announced Thaddeus Young and Bam Adebayo had been cut from the senior roster. Select Team members Derrick White and Marvin Bagley III were promoted to the senior roster and will join the team next week when training continues in Los Angeles.

Cool for Bagley.

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/27358812/team-usa-cuts-young-adebayo-scrimmage

richardjackson199
08-10-2019, 12:50 PM
I watched the Blue/White and my primary impressions were:

-Unfortunately, there is no real play-by-play announcing, which reminded me of why I don't like watching summer league very much, so it wasn't always easy to figure out who was who. I find that when guys are in new uniforms and your eyesight isn't what it used to be, recognizing players you don't watch all the time is tough.

-That being said, youth was served. Mitchell, Fox and Tatum all showed out. In general, I thought the young bigs on the Select Team...Marvin, Jonathan Isaac, John Collins, JJacksonJr...looked better than the White Team big

-If Tatum keeps shooting this well from 3, he's gonna make the squad and get a lot of PT.

-Congrats to Marvin who was bumped up to the pool of potential players and will continue in training camp this week.

-The game was pretty run and gun, which plays to the USA style advantage. The FIBA games won't be like that so it's hard to tell how good we'll be once the game slows down starting with next week's Spain scrimmage.

The World Cup has a history of being a break-out revelation of future super-stardom as NBA all-stars for some players. Think Kevin Durant, and others. I think that could happen with Tatum and possibly even Fox. Or somebody else. Go Team USA!

jimsumner
08-10-2019, 03:17 PM
Tatum, Bagley and Plumlee still in mix.

http://www.goduke.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_LANG=C&ATCLID=211808872&DB_OEM_ID=4200

JasonEvans
08-11-2019, 12:29 PM
Serbia, widely considered the strongest challenge to the US in the World Cup (what with Canada's NBA players largely taking a pass on playing and Ben Simmons not suiting up for the Aussies), just got a real blow to their chances. Miloš Teodosić, their starting PG and one of the best players in Europe over the past decade (though he struggled a bit when he came over to the Clippers) has a foot injury and will miss the World Cup.

bundabergdevil
08-11-2019, 08:42 PM
Being reported that Bagley is withdrawing to focus on NBA season...

roywhite
08-11-2019, 09:56 PM
Being reported that Bagley is withdrawing to focus on NBA season...

Disappointing if true; there are many examples of players who credited their experience in World and Olympic competitions with improving their games and leading to greater success. Has that lesson just disappeared?

JasonEvans
08-11-2019, 10:07 PM
Being reported that Bagley is withdrawing to focus on NBA season...

So, I can think of two explanations for this--


They told Bagley he was probably not going to make the team and this was a way for him to gracefully withdraw
Bagley took a look at the additional time he would have to put in if he did make the team (weeks of practice and travel beyond what he signed up for when he was only on the Select team) and he said, "I can't make that kind of commitment."


-Jason "I think #2 is the more likely to the possibilities" Evans

bundabergdevil
08-12-2019, 09:19 AM
So, I can think of two explanations for this--


They told Bagley he was probably not going to make the team and this was a way for him to gracefully withdraw
Bagley took a look at the additional time he would have to put in if he did make the team (weeks of practice and travel beyond what he signed up for when he was only on the Select team) and he said, "I can't make that kind of commitment."


-Jason "I think #2 is the more likely to the possibilities" Evans

I'd add a #3 or maybe it's 2b, at least for the guys like Bagley that are still in their rookie contracts. If they're really playing for that 2nd contract for potential transformational money, I have to imagine the added wear and tear + compressed schedule of FIBA this summer weighs on their minds. Bagley was already nagged by various injuries during his rookie season and the body just needs its recovery time. We can all throw out Paul George's injury but he was an established star...some of these guys need the next few years to get there and injuries can derail that train for sure.

bigperm13
08-12-2019, 09:37 AM
I'd add a #3 or maybe it's 2b, at least for the guys like Bagley that are still in their rookie contracts. If they're really playing for that 2nd contract for potential transformational money, I have to imagine the added wear and tear + compressed schedule of FIBA this summer weighs on their minds. Bagley was already nagged by various injuries during his rookie season and the body just needs its recovery time. We can all throw out Paul George's injury but he was an established star...some of these guys need the next few years to get there and injuries can derail that train for sure.

Honest question here: do y'all think most of these guys, Bagley especially, that have withdrawn would have stayed had K still been the coach? Nothing against Pop at all, but I say definitely.

Truth&Justise
08-12-2019, 09:41 AM
Serbia, widely considered the strongest challenge to the US in the World Cup (what with Canada's NBA players largely taking a pass on playing and Ben Simmons not suiting up for the Aussies), just got a real blow to their chances. Miloš Teodosić, their starting PG and one of the best players in Europe over the past decade (though he struggled a bit when he came over to the Clippers) has a foot injury and will miss the World Cup.

Huge blow for Serbia. He's 32 now, but he's been their wily veteran point guard for years. Plus it means Fran Fraschilla won't get to trot out his favorite phrase, as at least once a game he'd describe Teodosic as a "conscientious objector on defense."

Will be interesting to see if they run more action through Jokic now, and if they can adjust their schemes quickly enough to make that happen.

Truth&Justise
08-12-2019, 09:50 AM
After the game, USA Basketball managing director Jerry Colangelo announced Thaddeus Young and Bam Adebayo had been cut from the senior roster. Select Team members Derrick White and Marvin Bagley III were promoted to the senior roster and will join the team next week when training continues in Los Angeles.


Being reported that Bagley is withdrawing to focus on NBA season...

That was fast. Wonder if they'll regret sending Adebayo home, it seemed like he and Bagley would have played similar roles and they opted for Bagley.

JasonEvans
08-12-2019, 10:13 AM
Honest question here: do y'all think most of these guys, Bagley especially, that have withdrawn would have stayed had K still been the coach? Nothing against Pop at all, but I say definitely.

There was a different feeling when K was the coach, that's for sure. It was treated as a bigger deal. I'm not sure K or USA Basketball could have maintained that forever. I suspect. But, the fault here lies with FIBA as it is not just the US that is seeing top players avoid the World Cup (Aussie Ben Simmons, team Canada, and several others). If FIBA wants NBA stars to participate in this tournament, they need to work with the players association and figure out a way to make it attractive for them.

UrinalCake
08-12-2019, 10:22 AM
You know Bagley has arrived when he’s now considered good enough to turn down an invitation to the National Team. In a couple years I could see him being a turn-down-the-All-Star-Game level player.

moonpie23
08-12-2019, 11:03 AM
I'm feeling for Pops......I was hoping that he could continue the good vibes that K had installed.

flyingdutchdevil
08-12-2019, 11:11 AM
I'm feeling for Pops...I was hoping that he could continue the good vibes that K had installed.

I'm not. Even with all the drop outs, the US are overwhelming favorites.

It's mainly a product of the International landscape getting, well, crappier over the last 10 years. Long gone are the Spains and Argentinas of the world, ie teams with a great blend of stars, NBA role players, and continuity (the continuity is still there). The two best players outside of Team USA are Giannis for Greece and Jokic for Serbia. Greece isn't good because a) Giannis hasn't played for Greece in 3 years and b) there is really no one else who is that good on Greece. Serbia is likely the biggest threat to the US but their starting PG is out with foot problems and they don't have any guard power. Their 3 best players are all big men.

Australia and Canada are threats, but they are also missing their best players.

If Team USA loses, it won't be because of being out-talented. I have a ton of faith in Pop; his biggest asset over Coach K is that he knows these players inside and out (hell, playing against them is his day job!). He'll be fine.

Billy Dat
08-12-2019, 11:34 AM
It's a bummer about Bagley. I understand why he may have declined moving forward without knowing if he was going to make the team, especially because they may keep some guys all the way until the end before they cut them. The Kings are playing preseason games in India on 10/4 and 10/5, I am sure that additional travel factored into his decision. I hope it doesn't hurt his rep with Colangelo.

I don't think K's involvement impacts whether guys stay or leave. Maybe it would have made it harder for Marvin to back out.

Based on his lack of involvement with the team, I happen to think Australia is better off without Ben Simmons for this tournament. It reminds me a bit of how Serge Ibaka never really fit with Spain. Simmons can't shoot and while I am sure he'd have created some open court hoops, I think he'd have bogged down their continuity offense. Their current core is good for one last solid run at their first international medal.

Troublemaker
08-12-2019, 12:40 PM
I'm feeling for Pops...I was hoping that he could continue the good vibes that K had installed.

Yikes! Pop is LOVING this. He still has by far the most talented roster with more than enough shooting on it, AND he now gets to play the "disrespect" card with these extremely talented American players, getting them to unite and prove the "doubters" wrong.

If the USA fails to win gold, it'll probably be because:
(1) Pop shows that he isn't as good as Coach K at getting a newly formed team to play well together quickly, an underrated (as in never-mentioned outside of Duke circles) skill of Coach K's, leading to lots of success in pre-conference play in Nov/Dec, including highlights like the destruction of Kentucky last November. You could say this skill basically *is* the job of the Team USA head coach in a nutshell, and we'll see if Pop can do it.

(2) Pop opts to play a two-big lineup too much. He really should just start Jayson at the 4, much like how Coach K used NBA SFs at the 4 in FIBA play to give opposing big men headaches.

Dukehk
08-13-2019, 01:35 AM
A lot of people don't give enough credit to Coach K for actually recruiting all these superstars to play for the team in the first place. This is over multiple Olympics and World Cups.

NSDukeFan
08-13-2019, 07:38 AM
https://www.tsn.ca/toronto-raptors-point-guard-kyle-lowry-withdraws-from-us-world-cup-squad-1.1350189
I think the article said that currently leaves 15 players for 12 spots.

Truth&Justise
08-13-2019, 09:48 AM
https://www.tsn.ca/toronto-raptors-point-guard-kyle-lowry-withdraws-from-us-world-cup-squad-1.1350189
I think the article said that currently leaves 15 players for 12 spots.

Lowry was an underrated key to the 2016 gold medal. While the team was stacked with scorers, it struggled with half court defense, which was evident in the close calls against Australia, Serbia, and France. Coach K started playing Lowry more, often at the expense of Kyrie Irving. The defense got better. K also started staggering his lineups so that he'd pair Irving with DeAndre Jordan and Lowry with DeMarcus Cousins--that way each pair had at least one player capable of defending the pick and roll well.

This team will miss Lowry's experience, defense, and steady hand.

Tazman10
08-13-2019, 12:12 PM
The true example of how well Coach K did in coaching these pros was how he got stars like Carmelo to come off the bench and not complain about it, not once. Now Pop doesn’t have this star issue in front of him but we will see how good he is at getting them to play together. With a group like this multiple players are going to want to be the star and that will creat team issues so Pop is going to need to control this, if he can.

NSDukeFan
08-13-2019, 07:24 PM
https://www.tsn.ca/report-kelly-olynyk-to-miss-fiba-world-cup-with-knee-injury-1.1350742?tsn-amp&__twitter_impression=true

Another one bites the dust, this time from Canada. Should be fine for the season.

JasonEvans
08-14-2019, 08:15 AM
https://www.tsn.ca/report-kelly-olynyk-to-miss-fiba-world-cup-with-knee-injury-1.1350742?tsn-amp&__twitter_impression=true

Another one bites the dust, this time from Canada. Should be fine for the season.

Whew... we think Team USA has been hard hit by NBA defections and injuries. Canada has been decimated.

Only Khem Birch (Magic) and Cory Joseph (Kings) are NBA regulars. Luguentz Dort (Thunder, G-League) and Marial Shayok (76ers, G-League) are 2-way contract guys who are very close to being NBA talent but pretty much all the NBA talent in Canada is sitting this one out. Here are the Canadian NBA guys who have dropped out (or gotten hurt): RJ Barrett, Nickeil Alexander-Walker, Dillon Brooks, Chris Boucher (G-League MVP and a future Raptor) Shai Gilgeous-Alexander, Justin Jackson, Trey Lyles, Jamaal Murray, Kelly Olynyk, Dwight Powell, Nick Stauskas, Tristan Thompson, and Andrew Wiggins.

-Jason "Whew... they have gone from being a strong medal contender to a team that will struggle to get out of their tough group and into the knockout stage" Evans

Billy Dat
08-14-2019, 11:07 AM
Shots fired!!

Let’s let [Team USA] play their basketball and we will play ours and if we meet, may God help them," Djordjevic said.

https://www.complex.com/sports/2019/08/serbia-head-coach-on-team-usa

Billy Dat
08-15-2019, 04:22 PM
Jerry Colangelo speaking in barely coded language that Bagley's drop out was a surprise and none too welcome (start at 2:38)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hn8vJQZt1zk

Billy Dat
08-15-2019, 04:28 PM
Hmmm...a "Select Team" of guys who helped US qualify, but are mostly playing overseas or in the G-League, thumped the Senior National Team in some short scrimmages
https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/team-usa-loses-in-stunning-blowout-scrimmage-against-select-team-comprised-of-fringe-nba-players/

Similar to Bobby Hurley et al thumping the Dream Team in San Diego in 1992?

Tazman10
08-15-2019, 08:54 PM
If a G-league team can kick their a— then any pro foreign team can do the same. They will be lucky to make it to the second round and a metal, any metal, is in some serious question. 36 to 17, really?

sagegrouse
08-15-2019, 10:17 PM
If a G-league team can kick their a— then any pro foreign team can do the same. They will be lucky to make it to the second round and a metal, any metal, is in some serious question. 36 to 17, really?

Although gold, silver and bronze are most definitely metals, competitors are usually going for medals. Just joshin' ya.'

Tazman10
08-15-2019, 11:18 PM
Well, maybe nickel is surely possible, lol.

gep
08-15-2019, 11:58 PM
Maybe this comes from the "Chuck Daly school of putting you in your place"...:cool:

Billy Dat
08-16-2019, 06:16 AM
Some context for loss to Select Team
https://www.google.com/amp/s/basketball.realgm.com/wiretap-amp/255191/PJ-Tucker-Says-Team-USA-Loss-In-Scrimmage-Came-After-Two-Hour-Practice-

“Nobody gave the whole perspective of what happened. They just threw the score up and said, ‘They lost.’ It was two quarters after we’d been playing two hours...We didn’t play a game. That was two quarters of practice and whatever. We come in today and nobody talked about it," Tucker told Marc Stein of The New York Times.”

We don’t have long to wait to see how good or bad they look as there is an exhibition game against Spain tonight. I think it is on NBA TV and streaming on Twitch.

subzero02
08-16-2019, 09:51 AM
If a G-league team can kick their a— then any pro foreign team can do the same. They will be lucky to make it to the second round and a metal, any metal, is in some serious question. 36 to 17, really?

It was actually a 38 to 17 loss in a 10 minute scrimmage. The US is still -225 to win it all but this is a bit concerning. Hopefully they show up tonight vs. Spain.

https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/255177/Team-USA-Loses-10-Minute-Scrimmage-To-Select-Team-By-21

devildeac
08-16-2019, 10:12 AM
Well, maybe nickel is surely possible, lol.

"Frankly, my dear, I don't give a dime."

Or something like that. :o

JasonEvans
08-16-2019, 10:26 AM
It was actually a 38 to 17 loss in a 10 minute scrimmage. The US is still -225 to win it all but this is a bit concerning. Hopefully they show up tonight vs. Spain.

Anyone want to take the field and I take the US? I'm not all that concerned about the scrimmage "loss." Serbia is the only team in the field that has much of a chance, I suspect, and even that is a small chance (maybe Serbia wins 1 out of 5 games against this team, probably less). Pops is one of the top 5 basketball coaches in the world. He will have these guys playing winning hoops, I'm confident of that.

Dr. Rosenrosen
08-16-2019, 10:50 AM
Anyone want to take the field and I take the US? I'm not all that concerned about the scrimmage "loss." Serbia is the only team in the field that has much of a chance, I suspect, and even that is a small chance (maybe Serbia wins 1 out of 5 games against this team, probably less). Pops is one of the top 5 basketball coaches in the world. He will have these guys playing winning hoops, I'm confident of that.
Colangelo said they had practiced hard until late the night before and for several hours before the scrimmage. It doesn’t seem worrisome at all when put into context.

budwom
08-16-2019, 10:57 AM
It was actually a 38 to 17 loss in a 10 minute scrimmage. The US is still -225 to win it all but this is a bit concerning. Hopefully they show up tonight vs. Spain.

https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/255177/Team-USA-Loses-10-Minute-Scrimmage-To-Select-Team-By-21

Hopefully it's an early game...the Spanish don't do anything until about 10pm from what I've seen!

JasonEvans
08-16-2019, 12:21 PM
Hopefully it's an early game...the Spanish don't do anything until about 10pm from what I've seen!

Yeah, but 10pm in Spain is like early afternoon in Anaheim.

UrinalCake
08-16-2019, 01:29 PM
Here are the Canadian NBA guys who have dropped out (or gotten hurt): RJ Barrett...

Isn’t his dad the president of Canadian Basketball? That’s going to make for an awkward dinner table conversation when RJ goes home for Thanksgiving. (Or whatever they celebrate in November in Canada.)

sagegrouse
08-16-2019, 02:02 PM
Isn’t his dad the president of Canadian Basketball? That’s going to make for an awkward dinner table conversation when RJ goes home for Thanksgiving. (Or whatever they celebrate in November in Canada.)

Probably so. Rowan is the GM of the Canadian national team. T'giving in Canada is October 14 this year.

JasonEvans
08-16-2019, 08:36 PM
PJ Tucker has hurt his ankle and is out of the running (https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/team-usa-basketball-updates-p-j-tucker-drops-out-of-fiba-world-cup-after-ankle-injury-per-report/) for a World Cup spot. That could be good news for Mason as I think he is one of the last guys on the cut line for the team and PJ would fill an at least somewhat similar role.

There are very few traditional bigs on this team... Mason and Lopez are really it... and Mason does have a good bit of experience guarding Joker (who will be the most dangerous/best player in the tournament).

-Jason "the more I think about it the more I think Mason makes the team" Evans

JasonEvans
08-16-2019, 10:05 PM
-Jason "the more I think about it the more I think Mason makes the team" Evans

Mason is the starter against Spain. I think he is making the team.

AGDukesky
08-16-2019, 10:29 PM
Tatum was very aggressive but just couldn’t finish. It did feel like his teammates were treating him as the go-to guy. He had some good passes too.

JasonEvans
08-16-2019, 10:33 PM
Oh my! Tatum just yakked all over Spain.

Jason “that means he slam dunked with much authority “ Evans

JasonEvans
08-16-2019, 10:47 PM
16 point lead on the world #2 team Spain (though without Pau and I suspect Serbia is actually better) as we wind down the second quarter.

I shudder to think what that team of G-leaguers would be doing to Spain right now. 30 point lead? 50?

Billy Dat
08-16-2019, 11:52 PM
Squad was tough tonight. Good playing from guys who hadn't really shown a lot to date such as Kuzma and Middleton. The team shot well from 3 but lots of turnovers. Still, they are deep and had no problem handling this Spain side. I thought they played Spursy offense early on, with lots of ball movement and quick decisions, but we kind of reverted to more iso ball and pushing pace in the second half. Our guys played well, Mason got a few long looks. The cuts will be tough. Fox didn't play a lot, he kind of went Fox first half and White second half, but they are both behind Kemba and Mitchell. Of the wings, Brown seemed to play the least, I haven't seen minutes but I think he played less than Harris, Tatum, Barnes and Middleton. The bigs are different looks, Lopez has the shooting, Turner the athleticism, Mason the hustle and picks. We'll see.

Troublemaker
08-17-2019, 02:01 PM
Judging from the box score (https://www.usab.com/news-events/live-stats/2019/mnt/box-score-mnt-vs-esp.aspx), Pop is doing a good job continuing the K strategy of not playing two bigs together and utilizing an NBA wing at PF. (This is, of course, in contrast to the poor spacing of the George Karl and Larry Brown led 2002 and 2004 Team USAs, which Pop assisted on.) I'm not sure Pop played ANY two-big lineups against Spain, and this will make USA much less upset-prone if it continues. Keep in mind that USA typically still dominates on the glass using quickness and athleticism despite playing "small." The same was true in this exhibition game, as USA out-rebounded Spain 42-20.


Isn’t his dad the president of Canadian Basketball? That’s going to make for an awkward dinner table conversation when RJ goes home for Thanksgiving. (Or whatever they celebrate in November in Canada.)

It's quite possible 19-yr-old RJ isn't ready to contribute to Team Canada at a high level, and this was a mutual decision for him and his dad. Even an NBA role player like Corey Joseph is much better than RJ at this point.

arnie
08-17-2019, 02:15 PM
Judging from the box score (https://www.usab.com/news-events/live-stats/2019/mnt/box-score-mnt-vs-esp.aspx), Pop is doing a good job continuing the K strategy of not playing two bigs together and utilizing an NBA wing at PF. (This is, of course, in contrast to the poor spacing of the George Karl and Larry Brown led 2002 and 2004 Team USAs, which Pop assisted on.) I'm not sure Pop played ANY two-big lineups against Spain, and this will make USA much less upset-prone if it continues. Keep in mind that USA typically still dominates on the glass using quickness and athleticism despite playing "small." The same was true in this exhibition game, as USA out-rebounded Spain 42-20.



It's quite possible 19-yr-old RJ isn't ready to contribute to Team Canada at a high level, and this was a mutual decision for him and his dad. Even an NBA role player like Corey Joseph is much better than RJ at this point.

If RJ can’t contribute to Team Canada at high level, why would we think he could be better this year for the Knicks? Those fans will go nuts if he’s only a mediocre rookie.

JasonEvans
08-17-2019, 02:59 PM
It's quite possible 19-yr-old RJ isn't ready to contribute to Team Canada at a high level, and this was a mutual decision for him and his dad. Even an NBA role player like Corey Joseph is much better than RJ at this point.

RJ played for Team Canada in some tournaments last summer, FIBA qualifying, I believe. He was widely seen as the best player on the team despite several NBA guys being on the squad. He would have unquestioningly helped the team, but I think when a lot of the other Canadian NBA guys opted out of the World Cup, the family decided it was better to prepare for his rookie NBA season.

It is clear that the Olympics are what matters to the top tier of the basketball world.

richardjackson199
08-17-2019, 06:12 PM
Fox withdraws from consideration for Team USA

JasonEvans
08-17-2019, 06:55 PM
Fox withdraws from consideration for Team USA

Feels like he was saving face. Pop may have told him he was a long shot.

How many cuts are left? 1 or 2, right?

richardjackson199
08-17-2019, 07:09 PM
Feels like he was saving face. Pop may have told him he was a long shot.

How many cuts are left? 1 or 2, right?

I think 1 more cut. Maybe Marcus Smart?

flyingdutchdevil
08-18-2019, 09:42 AM
I think 1 more cut. Maybe Marcus Smart?

Without Fox, Smart looks more like a lock. Smarts best attribute is defense, and he’s the best defender on the team (he’s so much better than Brown). Fox is a really good defender, and having him off the team means Smart is your only true lock down defender.

ice-9
08-18-2019, 08:11 PM
If Fox was really cut, I wonder whether there would be an impact on chemistry given White is still on the roster and a Spurs. Would the other players feel Pop is being fair, a la Rivers on the Clippers and Hayward on the Celtics.

Billy Dat
08-19-2019, 09:42 AM
Here's a couple of ESPN pieces on the team from the past few days:

"Team USA takeaways: Pop's plans, scrimmage woes and more talking points"
https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/27415318/team-usa-takeaways-pop-plans-scrimmage-woes-more-talking-points

"Popovich keen to spread the love within Team USA"
https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/27418080/popovich-keen-spread-love-team-usa

As far as Fox dropping out, the first piece talks a little bit about that...after not playing much in the game against Spain, did he want to avoid being the guy that has to fly to Australia only to fly back when he was cut...only to fly back to Asia again when the Kings play in India in a few weeks. I often wonder if these injuries and drop out are all very carefully executed strategies to avoid saying someone was cut, but I think that level of media organization by USA Basketball is likely far fetched. I know that these guys don't want to be cut, so I think they reject before they can be rejected.

It would be interesting for Smart to make it after essentially not participating at all. Just based on numbers, Mason has a real chance.

Remaining players by position:

Wings:
Harrison Barnes
Jaylen Brown
Joe Harris
Kyle Kuzma (could play a 'big' role)
Khris Middleton
Jayson Tatum

Bigs:
Brook Lopez
Mason Plumlee
Myles Turner

Guards:
Donovan Mitchell
Marcus Smart
Kemba Walker
Derrick White

When I look at this list, I don't see Smart as a lock because he's not a good shooter and he loves to take bad shots. Of course, he's also a bulldog and a defensive ace. If you shift Kuzma to being a big, I could see him replacing Mason, but Mason has clearly embraced the defense/screens/rebounding role and has zero ego, Pop has even commented on that. One has to assume that Smart would not have stuck around if he didn't think there was a good chance he'd make it. As of today, I'd put my money on Mason, Jaylen Brown or Derrick White being the final cut.

This week's exhibition games against Australia will tell us a lot.

TheOldBattleship
08-20-2019, 10:23 AM
Feels like he was saving face. Pop may have told him he was a long shot.

My new favorite not-at-all-serious conspiracy theory here: Vlade Divac ordered Fox and Bagley to withdraw in order to secure victory for the Serbian National team (https://www.sactownroyalty.com/2019/8/19/20812681/whats-the-real-reason-deaaron-fox-withdrew-from-team-usa-sacramento-kings). (Presumably Barnes is either a sleeper agent or someone Vlade can count on to fail in big moments, I guess?)

Billy Dat
08-20-2019, 10:31 AM
My new favorite not-at-all-serious conspiracy theory here: Vlade Divac ordered Fox and Bagley to withdraw in order to secure victory for the Serbian National team (https://www.sactownroyalty.com/2019/8/19/20812681/whats-the-real-reason-deaaron-fox-withdrew-from-team-usa-sacramento-kings). (Presumably Barnes is either a sleeper agent or someone Vlade can count on to fail in big moments, I guess?)

That is classic! FIBA tournaments are full of cloaking, misdirection and dumping games to get more favorable match-ups. This theory fits right in, I love it.

NSDukeFan
08-21-2019, 04:54 AM
https://www.tsn.ca/report-cory-joseph-will-not-play-for-canada-at-fiba-world-cup-1.1353495
Joseph has been a great contributor to the Canadian national team in the past and would have been a nice leader on this team. It could be a big challenge to get a top 7 finish to qualify for the 2020 Olympics.

Billy Dat
08-21-2019, 05:11 PM
Set your DVRs or alarm clocks...US vs Australia exhibition, 5:30AM EST, 50,000 screaming Crocodile Dundees wanting American blood to mix with their Fosters.

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/27431751/aussies-huge-threat-team-usa

flyingdutchdevil
08-21-2019, 05:56 PM
Set your DVRs or alarm clocks...US vs Australia exhibition, 5:30AM EST, 50,000 screaming Crocodile Dundees wanting American blood to mix with their Fosters.

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/27431751/aussies-huge-threat-team-usa

Interestingly enough, they don't drink Fosters in Australia anymore. For one, it got renamed a while ago. And two, it had a bigger international presence than a domestic one.

Billy Dat
08-21-2019, 06:51 PM
Interestingly enough, they don't drink Fosters in Australia anymore. For one, it got renamed a while ago. And two, it had a bigger international presence than a domestic one.

I figured I'd get burned by relying on tired tropes...DBR is a cruel mistress.

devildeac
08-21-2019, 07:05 PM
Interestingly enough, they don't drink Fosters in Australia anymore. For one, it got renamed a while ago. And two, it had a bigger international presence than a domestic one.


I figured I'd get burned by relying on tired tropes...DBR is a cruel mistress.

I haven't had a Fosters in decades but found this educational:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foster%27s_Lager

mattman91
08-21-2019, 07:31 PM
I haven't had a Fosters in decades but found this educational:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foster%27s_Lager

Yep. Was in London in May. It was EVERYWHERE.

Billy Dat
08-22-2019, 09:04 AM
So the US boomed on the Boomers with very little difficulty. Had it not been for some lapses during the first and second quarters, we'd have blown them out worse then we did.

I was very impressed with...
-Myles Turner on both ends, he has a really nice feathery jumper
-Kyle Kuzma got the US off to a good start with hot shooting
-Kemba would not be denied on offense
-Aside from the aforementioned lapses, our defense was solid

Derrick White only played mop up minutes so I have to think, as of now, that he's the cut. They seem to have named Marcus Smart a captain so even thought he hasn't played one minute, I think he's in.

Our guys looked good. Tatum is playing well, and getting on-board with Pop's "move the ball" concepts. Mason had a bad start but is the most intuitive big at springing guys loose all over the court with screens.

The stadium was oddly retrofitted for hoops, kind of like the famous UCLA/Houston game in the Astrodome except the filled in the floor with chairs. The TV production was all Aussie and I was cracking up when one of the halftime interviews with with RJ Hunter and Lamelo Ball, two US youngsters playing pro overseas during their gap year instead of playing in college.

TheOldBattleship
08-22-2019, 10:15 AM
Here's the boxscore (https://www.usab.com/news-events/live-stats/2019/mnt/box-score-mnt-vs-aus-1.aspx). Agreed that Tatum's passing stood out to me. He has looked more decisive this summer than he did much of last year; getting going right away off the catch rather than catching, holding, scanning, and then going. He's so skilled that when he can catch people even a bit off-balance by making his decisions quickly, he forces defenses to send extra guys. If he can keep tapping into his passing, that's could be a really big element in his game. Exciting to see.

NSDukeFan
08-22-2019, 10:29 AM
https://www.tsn.ca/report-cory-joseph-will-not-play-for-canada-at-fiba-world-cup-1.1353495
Joseph has been a great contributor to the Canadian national team in the past and would have been a nice leader on this team. It could be a big challenge to get a top 7 finish to qualify for the 2020 Olympics.

https://www.tsn.ca/nick-nurse-cory-joseph-will-join-team-canada-for-fiba-world-cup-1.1353905
Looks like I (and TSN) may have jumped the gun and Joseph appears to be playing in the World Cup joining Khem Birch as the only NBA players playing for Canadian. I think he makes a big difference for the team’s prospects.

JasonEvans
08-22-2019, 12:24 PM
Some have noted that the FIBA World Cup serves the dual purpose of being a somewhat significant tournament and also being qualifying for the 2020 Olympics. Some articles say the top 7 teams at the World Cup will be automatic Olympic qualifiers. That is actually not the case.

7 teams will qualify, but not necessarily the top 7 teams in the tourney. The 7 teams will be the top finisher in the standings from Asia, Africa, and Oceania as well as the top 2 teams from the Americas and Europe. So, in the case of Canada looking for an automatic berth (assuming Team USA takes one of the 2 Americas spots) they would need to finish ahead of Argentina, Brazil, Puerto Rico, Dom Rep, and Venezuela. Argentina is quite good and a medal contender. IF Canada brought their full roster, I'd be confident they would make it but with this ragtag group, I suspect they won't make it.

That would mean that if Canada wants to make the 2020 Olympics, they would need to qualify through a tournament that will be held July 6-12 of next summer leading right up to the July/Aug Olympics in Tokyo. There will be 24 total teams in that tournament, broken out into 4 groups of 6 teams each. The winner (and only the winner) of each group will qualify. I suspect, given the way FIBA likes to spread the Olympics around among teams from all over the world, not just one region, that there will be multiple Americas teams in one 6-team pod though they may just divide up the teams according to FIBA rankings seeing as the World Cup 7-team qualifying makes it so that every region will have at least one team in the Olympics.

-Jason "I am dying for Canada to field a full roster and give a full-strength Team USA a real challenge" Evans

TheOldBattleship
08-22-2019, 07:14 PM
Great thread on the stats of the Team USA squad (https://twitter.com/johnschuhmann/status/1164607746530058240) through 3 games by John Schumann of NBA. He makes some interesting observations (though obviously this is all based on a really small sample), and all here really does show that Mason makes a significant impact when he's out there. The case for White being the guy most likely to be cut at this point seems pretty clear, too. Good experience for him to be out there with the team, though.

JasonEvans
08-22-2019, 07:59 PM
Great thread on the stats of the Team USA squad (https://twitter.com/johnschuhmann/status/1164607746530058240) through 3 games by John Schumann of NBA. He makes some interesting observations (though obviously this is all based on a really small sample), and all here really does show that Mason makes a significant impact when he's out there. The case for White being the guy most likely to be cut at this point seems pretty clear, too. Good experience for him to be out there with the team, though.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ECmEbkrXkAE-MGE?format=jpg&name=small
So, it is fairly clear that (small sample size!!!) Team USA plays its best basketball when Mason is on the floor. Anyone who thinks he is on the bubble to make the team is bonkers.

-Jason "surprised at Middleton's poor advanced stats as I feel like he is an ideal stretch 4 for Team USA" Evans

Neals384
08-22-2019, 08:14 PM
Some have noted that the FIBA World Cup serves the dual purpose of being a somewhat significant tournament and also being qualifying for the 2020 Olympics. Some articles say the top 7 teams at the World Cup will be automatic Olympic qualifiers. That is actually not the case.

7 teams will qualify, but not necessarily the top 7 teams in the tourney. The 7 teams will be the top finisher in the standings from Asia, Africa, and Oceania as well as the top 2 teams from the Americas and Europe. So, in the case of Canada looking for an automatic berth (assuming Team USA takes one of the 2 Americas spots) they would need to finish ahead of Argentina, Brazil, Puerto Rico, Dom Rep, and Venezuela. Argentina is quite good and a medal contender. IF Canada brought their full roster, I'd be confident they would make it but with this ragtag group, I suspect they won't make it.

That would mean that if Canada wants to make the 2020 Olympics, they would need to qualify through a tournament that will be held July 6-12 of next summer leading right up to the July/Aug Olympics in Tokyo. There will be 24 total teams in that tournament, broken out into 4 groups of 6 teams each. The winner (and only the winner) of each group will qualify. I suspect, given the way FIBA likes to spread the Olympics around among teams from all over the world, not just one region, that there will be multiple Americas teams in one 6-team pod though they may just divide up the teams according to FIBA rankings seeing as the World Cup 7-team qualifying makes it so that every region will have at least one team in the Olympics.

-Jason "I am dying for Canada to field a full roster and give a full-strength Team USA a real challenge" Evans

so 11 teams overall will go to Tokyo? 7 from this year’s FIBA and 4 from next year’s last minute qualifying? 11 sounds like an odd number, but maybe I’m missing something (as usual).

MChambers
08-22-2019, 08:25 PM
so 11 teams overall will go to Tokyo? 7 from this year’s FIBA and 4 from next year’s last minute qualifying? 11 sounds like an odd number, but maybe I’m missing something (as usual).
Yes, 11 is an odd number. ;-)

Glad I could clear that up.

JasonEvans
08-22-2019, 08:34 PM
so 11 teams overall will go to Tokyo? 7 from this year’s FIBA and 4 from next year’s last minute qualifying? 11 sounds like an odd number, but maybe I’m missing something (as usual).

Japan, as the host country for the Olympics, gets an auto bid. There will be 12 teams in the tournament. I am fairly sure they will be divided into 2 groups of 6 and will play a 5 game round-robin. After that, the top 4 in each group will advance to an elimination tournament.

-Jason "I have not researched the Olympic tournament format, but this is what makes the most sense to me based on past Olympic tournaments" Evans

Neals384
08-23-2019, 07:47 AM
Japan, as the host country for the Olympics, gets an auto bid. There will be 12 teams in the tournament. I am fairly sure they will be divided into 2 groups of 6 and will play a 5 game round-robin. After that, the top 4 in each group will advance to an elimination tournament.

-Jason "I have not researched the Olympic tournament format, but this is what makes the most sense to me based on past Olympic tournaments" Evans

Thanks!

DallasDevil
08-23-2019, 09:19 AM
Japan, as the host country for the Olympics, gets an auto bid. There will be 12 teams in the tournament. I am fairly sure they will be divided into 2 groups of 6 and will play a 5 game round-robin. After that, the top 4 in each group will advance to an elimination tournament.

-Jason "I have not researched the Olympic tournament format, but this is what makes the most sense to me based on past Olympic tournaments" Evans

Just a minor clarification; in 2020 there will be 3 groups of 4 in the Olympics and they will play a 3 game round-robin (so teams will play 2 less games than in prior Olympics). The top 2 teams from each group, plus 2 of the 3 third place finishers, will move on to the quarterfinals. More info here: http://www.fiba.basketball/news/competition-formats-confirmed-for-tokyo-2020-olympic-basketball-and-3x3-basketball-tournaments

UrinalCake
08-23-2019, 11:37 AM
Interestingly enough, they don't drink Fosters in Australia anymore. For one, it got renamed a while ago. And two, it had a bigger international presence than a domestic one.

Next you’re going to tell me they don’t eat at Outback Steakhouse anymore 8-)

phaedrus
08-23-2019, 11:44 AM
Next you’re going to tell me they don’t eat at Outback Steakhouse anymore 8-)

And what's the Australian word for "beer" now?

devildeac
08-23-2019, 11:48 AM
And what's the Australian word for "beer" now?

"When you say budweiser..."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foster%27s_Group

"As a result, Foster's Group is now a direct subsidiary of Anheuser-Busch InBev SA/NV."

subzero02
08-24-2019, 04:58 AM
Team USA had its 78 game winning streak broken by the Boomers. Patty Mills played the role of giant killer as he led the Aussies with 30 points. He made several key shots in the 4th quarter as Australia was able to overcome a 10 point halftime deficit. With less than a minute left, the US squad missed two 3 point attempts that would have tied the game at 97. A replay of the game will air on NBA TV at 8:00 pm. Team USA will have a chance to start a new winning streak on Monday against Canada. This might not be the only squad that the US falls to; according to odds shark, Australia only has the 6th best odds of winning the FIBA championship. USA -225, Serbia +350, Greece+1000, Spain+1600, France+2800 and Canada +3300 are all favored over Australia +4000.

https://www.espn.com/olympics/basketball/story/_/id/27450965/australia-stuns-team-usa-snaps-78-game-streak

https://www.oddsshark.com/nba/fiba-world-cup-betting-odds

bundabergdevil
08-24-2019, 05:27 AM
Team USA had its 78 game winning streak broken by the Boomers. Patty Mills played the role of giant killer as he led the Aussies with 30 points. He made several key shots in the 4th quarter as Australia was able to overcome a 10 point halftime deficit. With less than a minute left, the US squad missed two 3 point attempts that would have tied the game at 97. A replay of the game will air on NBA TV at 8:00 pm. Team USA will have a chance to start a new winning streak on Monday against Canada. This might not be the only squad that the US falls to; according to odds shark, Australia only has the 6th best odds of winning the FIBA championship. USA -225, Serbia +350, Greece+1000, Spain+1600, France+2800 and Canada +3300 are all favored over Australia +4000.

https://www.espn.com/olympics/basketball/story/_/id/27450965/australia-stuns-team-usa-snaps-78-game-streak

https://www.oddsshark.com/nba/fiba-world-cup-betting-odds

Don't do it, don't do it...resist the urge...c'mon, man, keep it together...aaaahhhhhh...oh, screw it. CRIKEY!

AGDukesky
08-24-2019, 07:11 AM
These games count?

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
08-24-2019, 07:17 AM
I think my definition of "shocked" might be different.

I am barely surprised.

dukelifer
08-24-2019, 07:20 AM
These games count?

Part of basketball is the intimidation factor. The USA is vulnerable and the world knows it. It will take a lot for this team to win it all. But perhaps the loss of gold will inspire more stars to participate next time. If anything this game has shown that the tourney is wide open.

Troublemaker
08-24-2019, 07:21 AM
The "Pop pulled a Chuck Daly" theory will have some grist, as judging from the box score and play by play (https://www.usab.com/news-events/live-stats/2019/mnt/box-score-mnt-vs-aus-2.aspx), Pop started Harrison Barnes and Marcus Smart. If you swap in Jayson and Kemba, respectively, USA probably takes this game.

The accounting for that 78-game streak is weird, too. So the losses in real games during qualifying (under Jeff Van Gundy) don't count towards the streak, but this loss in an exhibition does?

Finally, as I've written before, if the USA and Boomers were to meet again during the actual competition, the USA's familiarity with the Aussies will make an upset less likely.

Trust me, I'm standing by ready to pull the "Pop isn't as good as Coach K* at coaching Team USA" card; it's in my back pocket with my hand on it. But this loss doesn't really move the needle that much at this point. Let's see a loss during the real competition where Harrison Barnes isn't so prominently involved.

* As I've written before, Coach K's ability to quickly get a new team to play well together is a skill that makes him the ideal USA coach.

subzero02
08-24-2019, 07:25 AM
These games count?

This game was an exhibition and so is the game on Monday vs. Canada. Team USA will open Fiba tournament play vs. the Czech Republic in Shanghai on September 1st.



My first post has an error. Team USA didn't have a 10 point lead at the half; the lead was only 1 point; they did have a 10 point lead at one point in the second half though. A quick glance at the box score does raise a few concerns. Australia only shot 7 of 27 from 3 and Team USA only had 10 turnovers, considering the outcome, I would've expect both of these stats to be very different. The Boomer's efficiency on offense was likely the deciding factor; Australia had 22 assists to Team USA's 11.

AGDukesky
08-24-2019, 07:38 AM
Part of basketball is the intimidation factor. The USA is vulnerable and the world knows it. It will take a lot for this team to win it all. But perhaps the loss of gold will inspire more stars to participate next time. If anything this game has shown that the tourney is wide open.

I don’t really think teams are that intimidated compared to, say, 1992. Sure USA is considered the best team, but other countries see playing the USA as an opportunity for a huge win. Look at the comments by Serbia.

Also, this game was just a higher profile scrimmage. If Duke won the national championship and then went on an exhibition tour before the next season, a loss wouldn’t end the win streak. It is very odd to count this as part of some streak.

Billy Dat
08-24-2019, 07:40 AM
I watched the game. Our defense wasn’t good. We let Andrew Bogut carve us up in the first half with passes and deft buckets and, by letting the Boomers quickly erase that 10 point lead late, we set the stage for Patty Mills to go off, a scoring stream that included a banked 3 pointer.

No where on this thread does it mention that we beat this same team by 16 less than two days ago in the same stadium in front of 50,000 fans each game. It was a Final Four style atmosphere. Also, Australia starts 5 NBA players who know how to play together.

Pop is definitely still searching for combinations that work well together. This game was also a foul fest which made for a choppy, ugly flow which did not favor us. We also let the more physical FIBA style and unpredictable officiating get into our heads.

Just a note on Barnes, I don’t like him but he really played well today. I think this team has been working hard and playing hard. I don’t think they needed any kind of wake up call, but they certainly just got one.

burnspbesq
08-24-2019, 09:09 AM
Australia started three players who played at St. Mary’s ... which puts Gonzaga’s long-standing dominance of the WCC in an interesting perspective.

JasonEvans
08-24-2019, 10:53 AM
Final roster done (https://www.nba.com/article/2019/08/24/team-usa-roster-fiba-announced). Mason makes the team (so does Tatum, of course)! Kuzma, who is hurt, was the final cut. This allows Pop to keep his boy White, though I suspect we won't see White play much in competitive games, of which there may be as many as 2 or 3.


The official 2019 USA World Cup Team includes 2016 Olympic gold medalist Harrison Barnes (Sacramento Kings); Jaylen Brown (Boston Celtics); Joe Harris (Brooklyn Nets); Brook Lopez (Milwaukee Bucks);Khris Middleton (Milwaukee Bucks); Donovan Mitchell (Utah Jazz); 2014 World Cup gold medalist Mason Plumlee (Denver Nuggets), Marcus Smart (Boston Celtics); Jayson Tatum (Boston Celtics); Myles Turner (Indiana Pacers); Kemba Walker (Boston Celtics); and Derrick White (San Antonio Spurs).

dukelifer
08-24-2019, 12:51 PM
Final roster done (https://www.nba.com/article/2019/08/24/team-usa-roster-fiba-announced). Mason makes the team (so does Tatum, of course)! Kuzma, who is hurt, was the final cut. This allows Pop to keep his boy White, though I suspect we won't see White play much in competitive games, of which there may be as many as 2 or 3.

The loss of Kuzma is big. He is long and can shoot. I suspect if healthy- he would have stayed on the team.

AGDukesky
08-24-2019, 01:28 PM
The loss of Kuzma is big. He is long and can shoot. I suspect if healthy- he would have stayed on the team.

Totally agree- that is a big loss

robed deity
08-24-2019, 02:21 PM
I guess I don't understand how anyone can be shocked by this loss. This is not a GREAT roster, and ok, the first page mentions the Aussies don't have a few of their top guys (Simmons etc) but I could name like 10 or maybe 15 US players that would make a big difference. The Worlds just don't attract the big names. A huge get in 2010 was Kevin Durant. The US could have been vulnerable that year too, but noone could stop Durant and that was that.

This was a loss against a solid,experienced team with NBA vets on their home turf, 2 days after they beat them by 16. Not embarrassing at all considering who's playing. To me, nothing has changed. Send the A team-noone touches them. Send the B (or C) team (absent a dominant force like Durant or international Melo) and the US is vulnerable against a good team. Even with the 78 game streak, I didn't for a second think the USA was invincible and don't understand how someone could look at this roster and think they were.

subzero02
08-24-2019, 02:53 PM
I guess I don't understand how anyone can be shocked by this loss. This is not a GREAT roster, and ok, the first page mentions the Aussies don't have a few of their top guys (Simmons etc) but I could name like 10 or maybe 15 US players that would make a big difference. The Worlds just don't attract the big names. A huge get in 2010 was Kevin Durant. The US could have been vulnerable that year too, but noone could stop Durant and that was that.

This was a loss against a solid,experienced team with NBA vets on their home turf, 2 days after they beat them by 16. Not embarrassing at all considering who's playing. To me, nothing has changed. Send the A team-noone touches them. Send the B (or C) team (absent a dominant force like Durant or international Melo) and the US is vulnerable against a good team. Even with the 78 game streak, I didn't for a second think the USA was invincible and don't understand how someone could look at this roster and think they were.


International Melo is one of my all time favorite basketball players. He was such a dominant and highly efficient force in the post.

SouthernDukie
08-24-2019, 03:41 PM
International Melo is one of my all time favorite basketball players. He was such a dominant and highly efficient force in the post.

You mean as opposed to New York Melo? Or OKC Melo? Or Houston Melo? ;)

mattyoung18
08-24-2019, 03:54 PM
Honest question here: do y'all think most of these guys, Bagley especially, that have withdrawn would have stayed had K still been the coach? Nothing against Pop at all, but I say definitely.

I think the team this year would be totally different if coach K was still there.Coach K not only knows the new era of player he knows how to adapt better.The younger players of today dont want to play for a rigid smart mouth personality like Popovich.This loss has been brewing for a while with everybody opting out.This will not be the USAs only loss.

JasonEvans
08-25-2019, 01:14 AM
Send the A team-noone touches them. Send the B (or C) team (absent a dominant force like Durant or international Melo) and the US is vulnerable against a good team. Even with the 78 game streak, I didn't for a second think the USA was invincible and don't understand how someone could look at this roster and think they were.

This clearly isn’t even the B team. I’m not even sure it’s the C team. I mean, there are several guys on this team who aren’t even starters for their NBA team. A few of the players are B teamers but most are C or D. This is really the C-minus team.

Jason “full props to Kamba for sticking around. He deserves to be automatically put on the Olympic team next year“ Evans

ice-9
08-25-2019, 01:22 AM
Right, but consider the competition. Patty Mills? Bogut? As C tier as this iteration of the US team, they are still heavily favored for a good reason.

Dr. Rosenrosen
08-25-2019, 08:54 AM
I think the team this year would be totally different if coach K was still there.Coach K not only knows the new era of player he knows how to adapt better.The younger players of today dont want to play for a rigid smart mouth personality like Popovich.This loss has been brewing for a while with everybody opting out.This will not be the USAs only loss.
I wonder if the dropouts became self-reinforcing in that guys didn’t want to be part of the first team in a long time that was at real risk of underperforming.

mkirsh
08-25-2019, 10:07 AM
You mean as opposed to New York Melo? Or OKC Melo? Or Houston Melo? ;)

Melo Rankings:
Tier 1
1. Team USA Melo
2. Hoodie Melo

Tier 2
3. Denver Melo
4. Cuse Melo

Tier 3
5. National TV Game Knicks Melo

Tier 4
6. Regular Knicks Melo

Tier 99
7. OKC Melo
8. Houston Melo


Edit - I’m keeping my list up there for fun, but looking st advance stats his Knicks years were better than Nuggets years despite my perception otherwise

bundabergdevil
08-25-2019, 11:08 AM
Melo Rankings:
Tier 1
1. Team USA Melo
2. Hoodie Melo

Tier 2
3. Denver Melo
4. Cuse Melo

Tier 3
5. National TV Game Knicks Melo

Tier 4
6. Regular Knicks Melo

Tier 99
7. OKC Melo
8. Houston Melo


Edit - I’m keeping my list up there for fun, but looking st advance stats his Knicks years were better than Nuggets years despite my perception otherwise


I'd separate out NCAA Tourney Melo and put him in Tier 1. His performance should be in the convo for Top 10 all-time and a lock for the Top 20/25 all-time.

subzero02
08-25-2019, 11:42 AM
I'd separate out NCAA Tourney Melo and put him in Tier 1. His performance should be in the convo for Top 10 all-time and a lock for the Top 20/25 all-time.

That performance was almost good enough to get him drafted ahead of Darko...

Billy Dat
08-26-2019, 09:41 AM
We handled Canada quite easily but this Canada squad is pretty weak...not weak compared to some of the countries that will be in China but weak compared to the upper echelon of squads.

I think Dan Devine strikes the right notes in this piece about how it is more interesting to watch a more vulnerable Team USA than it is to watch a squad bulldoze everyone
https://www.theringer.com/nba/2019/8/26/20830217/team-usa-2019-fiba-world-cup

While Pop continued to try some different line-ups, he seems to be settling into a core rotation.

Walker, Mitchell, Turner, Barnes, Tatum and Brown seem to be firmly established.

In the next tier are Harris and Middleton, and probably Smart. Middleton has been pretty underwhelming to me.

Then I'd place Mason, Lopez and White. I'd have had Mason in the next tier up until this Canada game but he had a fairly poor showing and saw little light in the second half. He seems like he is doing all the right things but guys seem to score on him, and he never EVER looks at the basket which I think is a limitation for him.

Pop has messed around with a bunch of line-ups with none of Turner, Lopez or Plumlee, the only guys who can be considered bigs. I haven't seen any line-up data, but the eye test told me that those line-ups didn't do very well. While our defense was good today, the offense seems stagnant and we are resorting to a lot of one-on-one. I can't tell whether Pop is doing that deliberately to press our advantage or if guys are reverting to it. I see much less off ball movement than before. We essentially have the big set a high screen and then the ball-handler tried to make something happen, either a drive or a drive and kick-out, etc.

Can this team lose? Yes. But people forget that we have had close calls in both exhibitions and official games in every tournament we've played in since the pros came back in 2006. I am pretty sure we'll win this one, but the fact that I am not 100% sure is actually interesting rather than a disgrace.

robed deity
08-26-2019, 10:12 AM
Can this team lose? Yes. But people forget that we have had close calls in both exhibitions and official games in every tournament we've played in since the pros came back in 2006. I am pretty sure we'll win this one, but the fact that I am not 100% sure is actually interesting rather than a disgrace.

Yeah, there was Serbia last Olympics, Lithuania before that, Russia (I think?) in 2010. Except for '08, where the US was in no-BS mode and on a mission, there have been close calls in every competition or exhibition build up. While I do think they will get it done this year, my confidence is the lowest it has been. As has been discussed, this is the C team at best, and it doesn't generate nearly the amount of offense from its defense as past iterations. Serbia, Greece, Spain, or obviously Australia will provide a test.

Billy Dat
08-26-2019, 10:30 AM
Yeah, there was Serbia last Olympics, Lithuania before that, Russia (I think?) in 2010. Except for '08, where the US was in no-BS mode and on a mission, there have been close calls in every competition or exhibition build up. While I do think they will get it done this year, my confidence is the lowest it has been. As has been discussed, this is the C team at best, and it doesn't generate nearly the amount of offense from its defense as past iterations. Serbia, Greece, Spain, or obviously Australia will provide a test.

Even in 2008, the Gold Medal game against Spain went down to the final minute. Going back to the 2000 Olympics, Lithuania missed a 3 that would have won the semi-final game at the buzzer. All anyone remembers is the Gold Medal game when Vince Carter jumped over Frederick Weiss.

I am not trying to die on the hill of, "This isn't a C team". But, if this group of players was able to play together for longer and run an offense and defense they were familiar with, we actually would win every game by 30. But, that's the fun of these FIBA tournaments, can our superior overall talent and depth get on the same page quickly enough to win the 1-2 games we could lose if the other teams plays great and we play average?

pfrduke
08-26-2019, 10:49 AM
I do think a lot of the dropouts are the result of pushing the championships back a year and being too close to the Olympics. Players don’t really want to sign up for back-to-back summers of international basketball. When there was a two-year gap between the FIBA and the Olympics it was an easier ask for the players who might try to play both.

TheOldBattleship
08-26-2019, 06:06 PM
I think Dan Devine strikes the right notes in this piece about how it is more interesting to watch a more vulnerable Team USA than it is to watch a squad bulldoze everyone
https://www.theringer.com/nba/2019/8/26/20830217/team-usa-2019-fiba-world-cup

...

Can this team lose? Yes. But people forget that we have had close calls in both exhibitions and official games in every tournament we've played in since the pros came back in 2006. I am pretty sure we'll win this one, but the fact that I am not 100% sure is actually interesting rather than a disgrace.

I like the tone that that article sets a lot, as well, and totally agree that the potential competitiveness of the tournament will be a feature and not a bug. When other national teams are able to field a lineup that has guys who can compete at every level (particularly at the wing spots, as that's where the US has always held a pretty dominant advantage), there is going to be the possibility for the kinds of games that we saw in that second one against AUS. None of the Australian guys are stars, but they have a starting lineup full of NBA players, and many of those are NBA players with significant playoff experience contributing on really good teams. Patty Mills has been a contributor on a title-winning team. Bogut has, as well. Delly has. Aaron Baynes (kind of) has, and he and Joe Ingles have definitely played big roles on playoff teams. Bad basketball teams occasionally beat exceptionally good teams on occasion even at the highest levels, particularly when the chips aren't really down; as one of the resident Timberwolves fans on the board, I will never forget watching Shabazz "BazzGod" Muhammed DESTROY the eventual 73-9 Warriors team (https://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/201604050GSW.html), and I'd argue that the discrepancy between those TWolves and the Warriors was greater than that between this US team (especially in their, what, third game ever playing together?) and this Australian squad.

Anyway, that's all a rambling way of saying that there's no need for a ton of handwringing; this group is what it is. They're a team that is going to work hard, is going to do some cool things defensively, and when shots are falling, will look really good. But it's also a group that is going to see some really ugly offensive sequences. The US has the best talent top to bottom, but there are certainly teams that have the guys to compete, and that's cool. It CERTAINLY doesn't make this all a referendum on Pop or anything like that. This is just a really tricky group to try to pull consistent offense out of, to be honest, especially without having the option of instilling a really complex system (even beyond the fact that these aren't the most talented players in the US pool). One of the main strong points of Team USA has always been that we just have so many guys who are good options to run the offense, and that's just not the case here. Other than Kemba and Mitchell (and even Mitchell is in a heavily egalitarian offense where Rubio and Ingles did a ton of the ball-handling last year), there really isn't another guy on the team that consistently has significant ball-handling duties in the NBA season. Particularly from the wing, most of the guys are either finishers or ball movers, not initiators. That's why it's not surprising to see more iso play this year than usual as things break down. We just don't have the luxury of having, say, 4 guys who regularly run an offense (say, from a random 2016 lineup, Durant, Kyrie, Jimmy Butler, and Paul George) on the court at the same time. It's not that Pop has decided that going with an iso-heavy offense is always right, it's that when you have those types of guys, it is easier to have a prettier-looking offense. There's going to be a ton of intrigue this time around about how to generate consistently good shots against good defensive teams, and that'll be fun to watch! We've got a bunch of guys who can hit bad shots (Walker, Tatum, Barnes, Mitchell, Middleton), but when push comes to shove and we aren't hitting those, what's the move? I'm looking forward to seeing what Pop can dig up.

On a different note, I remain intrigued to see if Australia can maintain a high level of play throughout the tournament. Their biggest question marks to me are a) can Bogut stay healthy enough/find enough juice to even approximate what he did to the US in multiple games, b) can they get enough scoring from their non-starting 5+Bogut to keep them in games, and c) can Joe Ingles find his shot? If they get something from Bogey, something from the bench, and some star turns from Ingles, they can definitely hang with and beat the best teams in the world in the tournament.

MartyClark
08-26-2019, 07:48 PM
I like the tone that that article sets a lot, as well, and totally agree that the potential competitiveness of the tournament will be a feature and not a bug. When other national teams are able to field a lineup that has guys who can compete at every level (particularly at the wing spots, as that's where the US has always held a pretty dominant advantage), there is going to be the possibility for the kinds of games that we saw in that second one against AUS. None of the Australian guys are stars, but they have a starting lineup full of NBA players, and many of those are NBA players with significant playoff experience contributing on really good teams. Patty Mills has been a contributor on a title-winning team. Bogut has, as well. Delly has. Aaron Baynes (kind of) has, and he and Joe Ingles have definitely played big roles on playoff teams. Bad basketball teams occasionally beat exceptionally good teams on occasion even at the highest levels, particularly when the chips aren't really down; as one of the resident Timberwolves fans on the board, I will never forget watching Shabazz "BazzGod" Muhammed DESTROY the eventual 73-9 Warriors team (https://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/201604050GSW.html), and I'd argue that the discrepancy between those TWolves and the Warriors was greater than that between this US team (especially in their, what, third game ever playing together?) and this Australian squad.

Anyway, that's all a rambling way of saying that there's no need for a ton of handwringing; this group is what it is. They're a team that is going to work hard, is going to do some cool things defensively, and when shots are falling, will look really good. But it's also a group that is going to see some really ugly offensive sequences. The US has the best talent top to bottom, but there are certainly teams that have the guys to compete, and that's cool. It CERTAINLY doesn't make this all a referendum on Pop or anything like that. This is just a really tricky group to try to pull consistent offense out of, to be honest, especially without having the option of instilling a really complex system (even beyond the fact that these aren't the most talented players in the US pool). One of the main strong points of Team USA has always been that we just have so many guys who are good options to run the offense, and that's just not the case here. Other than Kemba and Mitchell (and even Mitchell is in a heavily egalitarian offense where Rubio and Ingles did a ton of the ball-handling last year), there really isn't another guy on the team that consistently has significant ball-handling duties in the NBA season. Particularly from the wing, most of the guys are either finishers or ball movers, not initiators. That's why it's not surprising to see more iso play this year than usual as things break down. We just don't have the luxury of having, say, 4 guys who regularly run an offense (say, from a random 2016 lineup, Durant, Kyrie, Jimmy Butler, and Paul George) on the court at the same time. It's not that Pop has decided that going with an iso-heavy offense is always right, it's that when you have those types of guys, it is easier to have a prettier-looking offense. There's going to be a ton of intrigue this time around about how to generate consistently good shots against good defensive teams, and that'll be fun to watch! We've got a bunch of guys who can hit bad shots (Walker, Tatum, Barnes, Mitchell, Middleton), but when push comes to shove and we aren't hitting those, what's the move? I'm looking forward to seeing what Pop can dig up.

On a different note, I remain intrigued to see if Australia can maintain a high level of play throughout the tournament. Their biggest question marks to me are a) can Bogut stay healthy enough/find enough juice to even approximate what he did to the US in multiple games, b) can they get enough scoring from their non-starting 5+Bogut to keep them in games, and c) can Joe Ingles find his shot? If they get something from Bogey, something from the bench, and some star turns from Ingles, they can definitely hang with and beat the best teams in the world in the tournament.

Good content, thanks. It would be easier to read with a few more paragraph breaks.

TheOldBattleship
08-26-2019, 10:48 PM
Good content, thanks. It would be easier to read with a few more paragraph breaks.

Ha, someone's got to provide the content for the Wu He (https://www.kirkusreviews.com/book-reviews/wu-he/remains-of-life/) fans on DBR...

Billy Dat
08-27-2019, 12:16 PM
"Why Team USA has no margin for error at the FIBA World Cup" - by Brian Windhorst
https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/27466749/why-team-usa-no-margin-error-fiba-world-cup

This is another good article, but I disagree with his comment that the run-up to this tournament is similar to the run-up to the 2004 Olympics. We got drilled by Italy by almost 20 points in an exhibition and most of the other games were kind of close against meh competition.

robed deity
08-27-2019, 09:03 PM
Nice article by Windhorst. It's better than those old Chris Sheridan articles basically predicting a US loss every tournament.

If the US loses, it won't be from lack of focus or anyone overlooking or disrespecting anyone- it will be a very good team getting outplayed by a good, less talented but more experienced group that just had a better night.

Billy Dat
08-28-2019, 01:08 PM
How worried should we be about Team USA" - Rodger Sherman and John Gonzalez
https://www.theringer.com/nba/2019/8/28/20836659/team-usa-fiba-world-cup-anticipation

I found this fairly annoying but it lays out the pessimist perspective fairly well. I never agree with the takes of "these guys are acting like they don't want to be there".

pfrduke
08-28-2019, 03:59 PM
Does anyone know where the games will be broadcast? FIBA's website is suggesting to watch games on ESPN+ - is that the sole broadcaster or will something like NBATV (or a main ESPN network) carry at least the US's games?

awhom111
08-30-2019, 10:04 PM
At last check, here are the rosters of all 31 teams besides the United States with club teams for the last season and any American ties noted:

China (family names first where applicable):
Abudushalamu Abudurexiti, Xinjiang (China)
Fang Shuo, Beijing (China)
Guo Ailun, Liaoning (China)
Makan Kelanbaike, Xinjiang (China)
Ren Junfei, Guangdong (China)
Sun Minghui, Guangsha (China)
Wang Zhelin, Fujian (China), Drafted 57th in 2016 by Memphis Grizzlies
Yi Jianlian, Guangdong (China), NBA (2007-2012)
Zhai Xiaochuan, Beijing (China)
Zhao Jiwei, Liaoning (China)
Zhao Rui, Guangdong (China)
Zhou Qi, Xinjiang (China), NBA (2017-2018)

Ivory Coast:
Charles Abouo, Blois (France), BYU
Frejus Zerbo, Bourg (France)
Bali Coulibaly, Rupella (France)
Mohamed Kone, Vichy-Clermont (France), Valparaiso
Bryan Pamba, Caen (France)
Souleyman Diabate, SLUC Nancy (France)
Tiegbe Bamba, Chartres (France), Portland State
Deon Thompson, Zalgiris Kaunas (Lithuania), UNC
Nonma Adjehi, Coruna (Spain), College of Charleston
Vafessa Fofana, Hermine Nantes (France)
Guy Landri Edi, Chalons-Reims (France), Gonzaga
Abraham Sie, Abidjan (Ivory Coast)

Poland:
Aleksander Balcerowski, Gran Canaria (Spain
Aaron Cel, Torun (Poland)
Karol Gruszecki, Torun (Poland), UT-Arlington
Adam Hrycaniuk, Zielona Gora (Poland), Cincinnati
Lukasz Koszarek, Zielona Gora (Poland)
Damian Kulig, Torun (Poland)
Kamil Laczynski, Wloclawek (Poland)
Dominik Olejniczak, Ole Miss
Mateusz Ponitka, Lokomotiv Kuban (Russia)
A.J. Slaughter, Lyon-Villeurbanne (France), Western Kentucky
Michal Sokolowski, Zielona Gora (Poland)
Adam Waczynski, Malaga (Spain)

Venezuela:
Gregory Vargas, Lara (Venezuela)
Jose Vargas, Lara (Venezuela)
Miguel Ruiz, Trouville (Uruguay)/Carabobo (Venezuela)
Dwight Lewis, Gimnasia (Argentina), USC
Jhornan Zamora, Ourense (Spain)/Carabobo (Venezuela)
Luis Bethelmy, Lara (Venezuela)
Windi Graterol, Brasilia (Brazil)/Boca Juniors (Argentina)
Michael Carrera, Obras (Argentina)/Carabobo (Venezuela), South Carolina
Pedro Chourio, Estudiantes Concordia (Argentina)/Carabobo (Venezuela)
Anthony Perez, Carabobo (Venezuela), Ole Miss
Heissler Guillent, Lara (Venezuela)
Nestor Colmenares, Lara (Venezuela), Campbellsville (NAIA)

Argentina:
Nicolas Brussino, Canarias (Spain), NBA (2016-17)
Agustin Caffaro, Libertad (Argentina)
Facundo Campazzo, Real Madrid (Spain)
Gabriel Deck, Real Madrid (Spain)
Marcos Delia, Joventut Badalona (Spain)
Maximo Fjellerup, San Lorenzo (Argentina)
Tayavek Gallizzi, Regatas Corrientes (Argentina)
Patricio Garino, Saski Baskonia (Spain), George Washington and NBA (2017)
Nicolas Laprovittola, Joventut Badalona (Spain), NBA (2016)
Lucio Redivo, Breogan (Spain)
Luis Scola, Shanghai (China), NBA (2007-2017)
Luca Vildoza, Saski Baskonia (Spain)

Nigeria:
Ike Diogu, Bayamon Cowboys (Puerto Rico), Arizona State and NBA (2005-2012)
Micheal Eric, Darussafaka (Turkey), Temple
Josh Okogie, Minnesota Timberwolves, Georgia Tech
Stanley Okoye, Zaragoza (Spain), VMI
Al-Farouq Aminu, Portland Trailblazers, Wake Forest
Chimezie Metu, San Antonio Spurs, USC
Ike Iroegbu, Lietkabelis (Lithuania), Washington State
Talib Zanna, Ironi Nes Ziona (Israel), Pitt
Ben Uzoh, no club, Tulsa and NBA (2010-2012)
Ekpe Udoh, Utah Jazz, Baylor
Jordan Nwora, Louisville
Gabe Vincent, Stockton Kings (D-League), UC Santa Barbara

Russia:
Semen Antonov, CSKA Moscow (Russia)
Evgeny Baburin, Nizhny Novgorod (Russia)
Vitaly Fridzon, Lokomotiv Kuban (Russia)
Sergey Karasev, Zenit St. Petersburg (Russia), NBA (2013-2016)
Mikhail Kulagin, CSKA Moscow (Russia)
Nikita Kurbanov, CSKA Moscow (Russia)
Vladimir Ivlev, Lokomotiv Kuban (Russia)
Grigory Motovilov, Spartak Primorye (Russia)
Andrei Sopin, Revda (Russia)
Evgeny Valiev, Zenit St. Petersburg (Russia)
Andrey Vorontsevich, CSKA Moscow (Russia)
Andrey Zubkov, Khimki Moscow (Russia)

South Korea (family names first where applicable):
Choi Jun-Yong, Seoul (South Korea)
Heo Hoon, Busan (South Korea)
Jung Hyo-Geun, Incheon (South Korea)
Kang Sang-Jae, Incheon (South Korea)
Kim Jong-Kyu, Changwon (South Korea)
Kim Sun-Hyung, Seoul (South Korea)
Lee Dae-Sung, Ulsan (South Korea), BYU-Hawaii (DII)
Lee Jung-Hyun, Jeonju (South Korea)
Lee Seoung-Hyun, Goyang (South Korea)
Park Chan-Hee, Incheon (South Korea)
Ricardo Ratliffe, Ulsan (South Korea), Missouri
Yang Hee-Jong, Anyang (South Korea)

Iran:
Aaron Geramipoor, no club, Seton Hall
Hamed Haddadi, Champville (Lebanon), NBA (2008-2013)
Mohammad Hassanzadeh, Abadan (Iran)
Hamed Hosseinzadeh, Chemidor (Iran)
Mohamad Jamshidi, Chemidor (Iran)
Samad Nikkah Bahrami, no club
Sajjad Mashayekhi, Petrochimi (Iran)
Rasoul Mozarfari, Abadan (Iran)
Meisam Mirzaei, Petrochimi (Iran)
Michael Rostampour, Abadan (Iran), Nebraska-Omaha
Behnam Yakhchali, Petrochimi (Iran)
Arman Zangeneh, Chemidor (Iran)

Puerto Rico:
Renaldo Balkman, Alab (ASEAN), South Carolina and NBA (2006-2012)
Chris Brady, Fukushima (Japan), Monmouth
Gary Browne, Ironi Nes Ziona (Israel)/San German Athletics (Puerto Rico), West Virginia
Gian Clavell, Estudiantes (Spain), Colorado State and NBA (2017)
Ramon Clemente, San Lorenzo (Argentina), Wichita State
Devon Collier, Arecibo Captains (Puerto Rico), Oregon State
Jorge Bryan Diaz, Quebradillas Pirates (Puerto Rico), Nebraska
Alex Franklin, Quebradillas Pirates (Puerto Rico), Siena
David Huertas, Monterrey (Mexico)/Arecibo Captains (Puerto Rico)
Javier Mojica, Durango (Mexico)/Bayamon Cowboys (Puerto Rico), Central Connecticut State
Isaiah Pineiro, San Diego, Signed with Sacramento Kings
Angel Rodriguez, Rio Grande Valley Vipers (D-League), Miami

Spain:
Javi Beiran, Canarias (Spain)
Victor Claver, Barcelona (Spain), NBA (2012-2015)
Quino Colom, Bahcesehir (Turkey)
Rudy Fernandez, Real Madrid (Spain), NBA (2008-2012)
Marc Gasol, Toronto Raptors, Lausanne Collegiate (Tennessee)
Juancho Hernangomez, Denver Nuggets
Willy Hernangomez, Charlotte Hornets
Sergio Llull, Real Madrid (Spain), Drafted 35th in 2013 by Denver Nuggets with rights held by Houston Rockets
Pierre Oriola, Barcelona (Spain)
Xavi Rabaseda, Gran Canaria (Spain)
Pau Ribas, Barcelona (Spain)
Ricky Rubio, Utah Jazz

Tunisia:
Omar Abada, Saint-Chamond (France)
Mohamed Abassi, Rades (Tunisia)
Makram Ben Romdhane, Saint-Chamond (France)
Ziyed Chennoufi, Rades (Tunisia)
Mourad El Mabrouk, Rades (Tunisia)
Mokhtar Ghayaza, Rades (Tunisia)
Mouhamed Hadidane, Rades (Tunisia)
Nizar Knioua, Stade Nabeulien (Tunisia)
Salah Mejri, Dallas Mavericks
Omar Mouhli, Rades (Tunisia)
Michael Roll, Maccabi Tel Aviv (Israel), UCLA
Radhouane Slimane, Monastir (Tunisia)

Angola:
Jose Antonio, Petroleos (Angola)
Olimpio Cipriano, Petroleos (Angola)
Leandro Jacques Conceicao, Benfica (Portugal), William Paterson (DIII)
Gerson Domingos, Interclube (Angola)
Jerson Lukeny Goncalves, Petroleos (Angola)
Valdelicio Joaquim, Quimper (France), Hawaii
Hermengildo Mbunga, Petroleos (Angola), Montana State
Eduardo Mingas, Primeiro de Agosto (Angola)
Carlos Morais, Petroleos (Angola), Community Christian (Georgia)
Reggie Moore, Aviacao (Angola), Oral Roberts
Yanick Moreira, Virtus Bologna (Italy), SMU
Leonel Paulo, Petroleos (Angola)

Italy:
Awudu Abass, Brescia Leonessa (Italy)
Marco Bellinelli, San Antonio Spurs
Paul Biligha, Reyer Venezia (Italy)
Jeff Brooks, Olimpia Milano (Italy), Penn State
Luigi Datome, Fenerbahce (Turkey), NBA (2013-2015)
Amedeo Della Valle, Olimpia Milano (Italy), Ohio State
Ariel Filloy, Avellino (Italy)
Alessandro Gentile, Estudiantes (Spain), Drafted 53rd in 2014 by Minnesota Timberwolves with rights last held by Houston Rockets
Danilo Gallinari, Los Angeles Clippers
Daniel Hackett, CSKA Moscow (Russia), USC
Amedeo Tessitori, Treviso (Italy)
Luca Vitali, Brescia Leonessa (Italy)

Philippines:
Japeth Aguilar, Barengay Ginebra (Phillipines), Western Kentucky
Raymond Almazan, Meralco (Philippines)
Mark Barroca, Magnolia (Philippines)
Andray Blatche, Tianjin (China), South Kent (Connecticut) and NBA (2005-2014)
Robert Bolick, NorthPort (Philippines)
June Mar Fajardo, San Miguel (Philippines)
Paul Lee, Magnolia (Philippines)
Gabe Norwood, Rain or Shine (Philippines), George Mason
CJ Perez, Columbia (Philippines)
RR Pogoy, TNT (Philippines)
Kiefer Ravena, NLEX (Philippines)
Troy Rosario, TNT (Philippines)

Serbia:
Stefan Bircevic, Bonn (Germany)
Nemanja Bjelica, Sacramento Kings
Bogdan Bogdanovic, Sacramento Kings
Marko Guduric, Fenerbahce (Turkey), Signed with Memphis Grizzlies
Nikola Jokic, Denver Nuggets
Stefan Jovic, Bayern Munich (Germany)
Vladimir Lucic, Bayern Munich (Germany)
Boban Marjanovic, Philadelphia 76ers
Vasilije Micic, Anadolu Efes (Turkey), Drafted 52nd in 2014 by Philadelphia 76ers
Nikola Milutinov, Olympiakos (Greece), Drafted 26th in 2015 by San Antonio Spurs
Miroslav Raduljica, Jiangsu (China), NBA (2013-2015)
Marko Simonovic, Zenit St. Petersburg (Russia)

Czech Republic:
Patrik Auda, Pistoia (Italy), Seton Hall
Ondrej Balvin, Gran Canaria (Spain)
Jaromir Bohacik, Nymburk (Czech Republic)
Vojtech Hruban, Nymburk (Czech Republic)
Martin Kriz, Nymburk (Czech Republic)
Lukas Palyza, Olomucko (Czech Republic)
Martin Peterka, Nymburk (Czech Republic)
Pavel Pumprla, Nymburk (Czech Republic)
Tomas Satoransky, Washington Wizards
Blake Schilb, Chalons-Reims (France), Loyola (Ill)
Jakub Sirina, Opava (Czech Republic)
Tomas Vyoral, Nymburk (Czech Republic)

Japan:
Seiya Ando, Tokyo (Japan)
Shuto Ando, Nagoya (Japan)
Yudai Baba, Tokyo (Japan)
Nick Fazekas, Kanagawa (Japan), Nevada and NBA (2007-2008)
Rui Hachimura, Gonzaga, Signed with Washington Wizards
Makota Hiejima, Utsunomiya (Japan)
Avi Schafer, Tokyo (Japan), Georgia Tech
Ryusei Shinoyama, Kanagawa (Japan)
Joji Takeuchi, Tokyo (Japan)
Kosuke Takeuchi, Utsunomiya (Japan)
Daiki Tanaka, Tokyo (Japan)
Yuta Watanabe, Memphis Grizzlies, George Washington

Turkey:
Dogus Balbay, Anadolu Efes (Turkey), Texas
Sertac Sanli, Anadolu Efes (Turkey)
Bugrahan Tuncer, Anadolu Efes (Turkey)
James Metecan Birsen, Anadolu Efes (Turkey)
Melih Mahmutoglu, Fenerbahce (Turkey)
Ege Arar, Galatasaray (Turkey)
Semih Erden, Istanbul Buyuksehir (Turkey), NBA (2010-2012)
Yigit Arslan, Bursa (Turkey)
Cedi Osman, Cleveland Cavaliers
Ersan Ilyasova, Milwaukee Bucks
Furkan Korkmaz, Philadelphia 76ers
Scotty Wilbekin, Maccabi Tel Aviv (Israel), Florida

Brazil:
Leandro Barbosa, Minas (Brazil), NBA (2003-2017)
Vitor Benite, Miraflores (Spain), Southern Miss
Bruno Caboclo, Memphis Grizzlies
Didi Louzada, Franca (Brazil), Drafted 35th in 2019 by Atlanta Hawks with rights held by New Orleans Pelicans
Yago Mateus Dos Santos, Paulistano (Brazil)
Cristiano Felicio, Chicago Bulls
Alex Garcia, Bauru (Brazil), NBA (2003-2004)
Marcelo Huertas, Saski Baskonia (Spain), Coppell (Texas) and NBA (2015-2017)
Augusto Lima, Miraflores (Spain)
Rafael Freire Luz, Andorra (Spain)
Marcus Viera, Flamengo (Brazil), NBA (2006-2008)
Anderson Varejao, Flamengo (Brazil), NBA (2004-2017)

Greece:
Giannis Antetokounmpo, Milwaukee Bucks
Thanasis Antetokounmpo, Panathinaikos (Greece), NBA (2016)
Ioannis Bourousis, Guangsha (China)
Nick Calathes, Panathinaikos (Greece), Florida and NBA (2013-2015)
Georgios Papagiannis, Panathinaikos (Greece), NBA (2016-2018)
Georgios Printezis, Olympiakos (Greece), Drafted 58th in 2007 by San Antonio Spurs with rights held by San Antonio Spurs
Giannoulis Larentzakis, AEK Athens (Greece)
Evangelos Mantzaris, Olympiakos (Greece)
Ioannis Papepetrou, Panathinaikos (Greece), Texas
Kostas Papanikolaou, Olympiakos (Greece), NBA (2014-2016)
Kostas Sloukas, Fenerbahce (Turkey)
Panagiotis Vasiolopoulos, Peristeri (Greece)

Montenegro:
Milko Bjelica, Tokyo (Japan)
Bojan Dubljevic, Valencia (Spain), Drafted 59th in 2013 by Minnesota Timberwolves with rights held by Portland Trailblazers
Nikola Ivanovic, Buducnost (Montenegro)
Derek Needham, Vilnius (Lithuania), Fairfield
Aleksa Popovic, Lovcen (Montenegro)
Petar Popovic, Buducnost (Montenegro)
Dino Radoncic, UCAM Murcia (Spain)
Sead Sehovic, Buducnost (Montenegro)
Suad Sehovic, Buducnost (Montenegro)
Nemanja Radovic, Zaragoza (Spain)
Marko Todorovic, Joventut Badalona (Spain), Drafted 45th in 2013 by Portland Trailblazers with rights last held by Houston Rockets
Nikola Vucevic, Orlando Magic, USC

New Zealand:
Tom Abercrombie, New Zealand Breakers (Australia)/Wellington Saints (New Zealand), Washington State
Finn Delany, New Zealand Breakers (Australia)/FMP Belgrade (Serbia), Southwest Baptist (DII)
Isaac Fotu, Ulm (Germany), Hawaii
Shea Ili, New Zealand Breakers (Australia)/Wellington Saints (New Zealand)
Jarrod Kenny, Cairns Taipans (Australia)/Hawke's Bay Hawks (New Zealand)
Rob Loe, Cairns Taipans (Australia)/Wellington Saints (New Zealand), Saint Louis
Jordan Ngatai, New Zealand Breakers (Australia)/Wellington Saints (New Zealand), BYU-Hawaii (DII)
Alex Pledger, Melbourne United (Australia)/Southland Sharks (New Zealand), Belmont Abbey (DII)
Ethan Rusbatch, Hawke's Bay Hawks (New Zealand), Lincoln Trail (JC)
Tohi Smith-Milner, Melbourne United (Australia)/Kilsyth Cobras (Australia), Polk State (JC)
Corey Webster, New Zealand Breakers (Australia), Lambuth (NAIA)
Tai Webster, Galatasaray (Turkey), Nebraska

Dominican Republic:
Eulis Baez, Gran Canaria (Spain)/Rafael Barias (Dominican Republic), Western Illinois
Juan Jose Garcia, Amics Castello (Spain)
Victor Liz, Ponce Lions (Puerto Rico)
Rigoberto Mendoza, Mexico City (Mexico)/Aguada Santeros (Puerto Rico)
Luis Montero, Caracas (Venezuela), South Plains (JC) and NBA (2015-2018)
Dagoberto Pena, Pasvalys (LIthuania), Marshall
Ronald Ramon, Mauricio Baez (Dominican Republic), Pitt
Ronald Roberts, Jena (Germany), St. Joseph's
Sadiel Rojas, UCAM Murcia (Spain), Oklahoma Wesleyan (NAIA)
Gelvis Solano, Ciclista Olimpico (Argentina), Merrimack (DII)
Juan Miguel Suero, Fajardo Cariduros (Puerto Rico)/Mauricio Baez (Dominican Republic)
Eloy Vargas, Gimnasia (Argentina)/Carabobo (Venezuela), Kentucky

France:
Andrew Albicy, Andorra (Spain)
Nicolas Batum, Charlotte Hornets
Nando De Colo, CSKA Moscow (Russia), NBA (2012-2014)
Evan Fournier, Orlando Magic
Rudy Gobert, Utah Jazz
Louis Labeyrie, Valencia (Spain), Drafted 57th in 2014 by Indiana Pacers with rights by New York Knicks
Paul Lacombe, Monaco (France)
Mathias Lessort, Malaga (Spain), Drafted 50th in 2017 by Philadelphia 76ers with rights held by Los Angeles Clippers
Amath M'Baye, Virtus Bologna (Italy), Oklahoma
Frank Ntilikina, New York Knicks
Vincent Poirier, Saski Baskonia (Spain), Signed with Boston Celtics
Axel Toupane, Olympiakos (Greece), NBA (2016-2017)

Germany:
Ismet Akpinar, Ulm (Germany)
Danilo Barthel, Bayern Munich (Germany)
Robin Benzing, Besiktas (Turkey)
Niels Giffey, Berlin (Germany), UConn
Maximilian Kleber, Dallas Mavericks
Maodo Lo, Bayern Munich (Germany), Columbia
Andreas Obst, Obradoiro (Spain)
Dennis Schroder, Oklahoma City Thunder
Daniel Theis, Boston Celtics
Johannes Thiemann, Berlin (Germany)
Johannes Voigtmann, Saski Baskonia (Spain)
Paul Zipser, Miraflores (Spain), NBA (2016-2018)

Jordan:
Ahmad Aldwairi, Fenerbahce (Turkey)
Mousa Alawadi, Kofer Youba (Jordan)
Dar Tucker, San Lorenzo (Argentina), DePaul
Zaid Abbas, Al-Ahli (Bahrain)
Mahmoud Abdeen, Al Jazeera (Jordan)
Yousef Abu Wazaneh, Al Riyadi (Jordan)
Mohammad Hussein, Al Ahli (Jordan)
Ahmad Alhamarsheh, Al Wehdat (Jordan)
Amin Abu Hawwas, Orthodox (Jordan), Mars Hill (DII)
Ahmad Obeid, Orthodox (Jordan)
Fadi Ibrahim, Tampa (DII)
Jordan Dasuqi, Al Jazeera (Jordan), Lake Superior State (DII)

Australia:
Aron Baynes, Boston Celtics, Washington State
Andrew Bogut, Sydney Kings (Australia)/Golden State Warriors, Utah
David Barlow, Melbourne United (Australia)/Sandringham Sabres (Australia), Metro State (DII)
Mitch Creek, Minnesota Timberwolves
Matthew Dellavedova, Cleveland Cavaliers, St Mary's
Cameron Gliddon, Brisbane Bullets (Australia)/Canterbury Rams (New Zealand), Concordia (NAIA)
Chris Goulding, Melbourne United (Australia)
Joe Ingles, Utah Jazz
Nick Kay, Perth Wildcats (Australia)/Wellington Saints (New Zealand), Metro State (DII)
Jock Landale, Partizan Belgrade (Serbia), St. Mary's
Patty Mills, San Antonio Spurs, St. Mary's
Nathan Sobey, Adelaide 36ers (Australia)/Strasbourg (France), Wyoming

Canada:
Khem Birch, Orlando Magic, UNLV
Melvin Ejim, UNICS Kazan (Russia), Iowa State
Brady Heslip, Frankfurt (Germany), Baylor
Cory Joseph, Indiana Pacers
Kaza Kajami-Keane, Zwolle (Netherlands), Cleveland State
Owen Klaasen, Ludwigsburg (Germany)
Conor Morgan, Joventut Badalona (Spain)
Andrew Nembhard, Florida
Kevin Pangos, Barcelona (Spain), Gonzaga
Phil Scrubb, Zenit St. Petersburg (Russia)
Thomas Scrubb, Varese (Italy)
Kyle Wiltjer, Malaga (Spain), Gonzaga and NBA (2016-2017)

Lithuania:
Arnas Butkevicius, Vilnius (Lithuania)
Rokas Giedraitis, Berlin (Germany)
Marius Grigonis, Zalgiris Kaunas (Lithuania)
Paulius Jankunas, Zalgiris Kaunas (Lithuania)
Mantas Kalnietis, Lyon-Villeurbanne (France)
Mindaugas Kuzminskas, Olimpia Milano (Italy), NBA (2016-2017)
Lukas Lekavicius, Panathinaikos (Greece)
Jonas Maciulis, AEK Athens (Greece)
Domantas Sabonis, Indiana Pacers, Gonzaga
Renaldas Seibutis, Zaragoza (Spain), Draftd 50th in 2007 by Dallas Mavericks with rights held by Cleveland Cavaliers
Edgaras Ulanovas, Zalgiris Kaunas (Lithuania)
Jonas Valanciunas, Memphis Grizziles

Senegal:
Xane Dalmeida, Charleville-Mezieres (France)
Moustapha Diop, Tallinna Kalev (Estonia)
Mouhammad Faye, Red Star Belgrade (Serbia), SMU
Ibrahima Fall Faye, Leuven (Belgium)
Makhtar Gueye, UAB
Hamady Ndiaye, Avellino (Italy), Rutgers and NBA (2010-2014)
Maurice Ndour, UNICS Kazan (Russia), Ohio and NBA (2016-2017)
Momar Ndoye, Forez (France)
Youssoupha Ndoye, Bourg (France), St. Bonaventure
Lamine Sambe, Rueil (France)
Djibril Thiam, Pont-de -Cheruy (France), Wyoming
Babacar Toure, Fribourg (Switzerland)

JasonEvans
08-31-2019, 12:44 AM
Nigeria:
Ike Diogu, Bayamon Cowboys (Puerto Rico), Arizona State and NBA (2005-2012)
Micheal Eric, Darussafaka (Turkey), Temple
Josh Okogie, Minnesota Timberwolves, Georgia Tech
Stanley Okoye, Zaragoza (Spain), VMI
Al-Farouq Aminu, Portland Trailblazers, Wake Forest
Chimezie Metu, San Antonio Spurs, USC
Ike Iroegbu, Lietkabelis (Lithuania), Washington State
Talib Zanna, Ironi Nes Ziona (Israel), Pitt
Ben Uzoh, no club, Tulsa and NBA (2010-2012)
Ekpe Udoh, Utah Jazz, Baylor
Jordan Nwora, Louisville
Gabe Vincent, Stockton Kings (D-League), UC Santa Barbara

Ummm, this looks like a decent contender. No, not on a level with Serbia or Spain or Greece... but not exactly a team without any shot of staying on the court with Team USA or the other top teams. I would not project them for a medal, but I would expect to find them in the quarterfinals (if they can get out of their tough group with Russia and Argentina).

dukelifer
08-31-2019, 02:34 PM
Ummm, this looks like a decent contender. No, not on a level with Serbia or Spain or Greece... but not exactly a team without any shot of staying on the court with Team USA or the other top teams. I would not project them for a medal, but I would expect to find them in the quarterfinals (if they can get out of their tough group with Russia and Argentina).

Already with a loss- against Russia

MChambers
08-31-2019, 03:12 PM
Here's the Washington Post's story on the US team in the World Cup: https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2019/08/31/five-burning-questions-usa-basketball-fiba-world-cup-gets-underway/

hallcity
08-31-2019, 09:28 PM
Which TV network is carrying the game on Sunday?

awhom111
08-31-2019, 09:34 PM
Already with a loss- against Russia

A few interesting storylines after the first day even with no real surprises. China's win and Iran's loss to Puerto Rico continues to give them the edge for Asia's Olympic spot. Nigeria's loss does not remove them from being the favorite for Africa's spot, but reduces the chances of them clinching it early. Five years ago, the Philippines tested a bunch of European teams because of how long they had been absent from the world stage, meaning that they played a completely different style than most of these teams had ever seen. This time, there were no surprises and Italy rolled to an easy win.


Which TV network is carrying the game on Sunday?

ESPN+, which will cover all the group stage games. USA knockout round games and maybe a few others will be on an ESPN television channel.

du_bb1
09-01-2019, 10:52 AM
Win # 1
USA 88 Czech Republic 67 Mitchell 16 pt, barnes 14 and Tatum 10

all the data could find for now

MarkD83
09-01-2019, 11:45 AM
but this might make it easier for everyone to track the scores and standings..

http://www.fiba.basketball/basketballworldcup/2019

Reilly
09-01-2019, 12:04 PM
Highlights: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLCXERy73Oiz8WnzrRxVAkbCQeCwhHJe5d

juise
09-01-2019, 12:05 PM
Full USA-Czech Republic highlights here. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JDMUbDxQNYE)

devildeac
09-01-2019, 12:15 PM
Win # 1
USA 88 Czech Republic 67 Mitchell 16 pt, barnes 14 and Tatum 10

all the data could find for now

Hopefully, that barnes # is his turnover stat and we won in spite of his performance.

:rolleyes:

miramar
09-01-2019, 12:25 PM
Full USA-Czech Republic highlights here. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JDMUbDxQNYE)

I can't believe the game was only on ESPN+, which I don't have. I suppose there were way more important games going on at 8:30 in the morning.

This reminds me of the time that I had to wait until 11 PM to watch the sixth and deciding game of the 1980 NBA finals. I guess that Magic and Dr. J just weren't important enough. In case you went to bed early that night, Magic scored 42 and Wilkes 37 as the Lakers took the series.

I expect that some of our younger viewers are wondering what I'm talking about, but that's the way things used to be.

Reilly
09-01-2019, 12:36 PM
... This reminds me of the time that I had to wait until 11 PM to watch the sixth and deciding game of the 1980 NBA finals. I guess that Magic and Dr. J just weren't important enough. In case you went to bed early that night, Magic scored 42 and Wilkes 37 as the Lakers took the series.

I expect that some of our younger viewers are wondering what I'm talking about, but that's the way things used to be.

I didn't realize Jim Spanarkel played in that game (or that he played for Philly that year): https://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/198005160PHI.html

accfanfrom1970
09-01-2019, 12:51 PM
but this might make it easier for everyone to track the scores and standings..

http://www.fiba.basketball/basketballworldcup/2019

I still can’t find a box score. That is one irritating web site.

du_bb1
09-01-2019, 12:52 PM
Win # 1
USA 88 Czech Republic 67 Mitchell 16 pt, barnes 14 and Tatum 10

all the data could find for now

tbyers11
09-01-2019, 02:09 PM
I still can’t find a box score. That is one irritating web site.

This should work for the boxscore (http://www.fiba.basketball/basketballworldcup/2019/game/3108/Czech-Republic-USA#tab=boxscore)

accfanfrom1970
09-01-2019, 02:45 PM
This should work for the boxscore (http://www.fiba.basketball/basketballworldcup/2019/game/3108/Czech-Republic-USA#tab=boxscore)

Thanks.

JasonEvans
09-01-2019, 04:15 PM
A few comments from the boxscore...


USA only attempts 6 FTs. I wonder if that is a sign of the refs swallowing their whistles or we simply aren't driving the ball and getting hit the way you might see in a normal game.
Turner (16:20) + Lopez (9:24) + Plumlee (5:09) = 30:53 of playing time. That means team USA went with no big man for almost 10 minutes of the game. Middleton, Tatum, or Barnes would be the "big" in those scenarios. That can work much of the time, but there will be teams (Serbia and Spain are two prime examples) where you must have someone to match up with a quality big.
Mason with the fewest minutes of anyone on the team... at least he is there.
Only 7 turnovers. If we keep our turnovers under 10, we probably beat anyone else in this tourney.
Lopez and Plumlee were the only guys on the team who played less than 14 minutes. Very balanced minutes... which is to be expected in a semi-competitive game like this one

.

BD80
09-01-2019, 07:24 PM
A few comments from the boxscore...


...
Mason with the fewest minutes of anyone on the team... at least he is there.
...

.

They better give Mason his minutes. Mason could sick his little brother on them ...

awhom111
09-02-2019, 04:54 PM
Storylines after the third day:

China missed a chance to virtually clinch Asia's Olympic berth, falling to Poland in overtime. Poland will advance from this group along with the winner of the China-Venezuela game.

Nigeria lost to old man Scola and Argentina, preventing them from advancing as Russia and Argentina move on and will play each other in the next game.

That leaves the door open for Tunisia to take Africa's Olympic berth after they beat Iran, leaving them with a game against Puerto Rico where the winner will join Spain in the next round.

The last group playing to day had no surprises with Serbia and Italy already advancing before playing each other.

Tuesday's game against Turkey will be the toughest in this stage for the United States, although probably not quite a knockout round level opponent.

Oceania's Olympic berth could be nearly resolved tomorrow if New Zealand loses to Montenegro and Australia beats Senegal. Brazil's old guard got them a win in their first game in this group, but Greece will be a big test.

Germany will need to bounce back quickly after testing France in the first game, but they should be able to beat the Dominican Republic decisively.

Canada will be forced to qualify for the Olympics in the extra tournaments next year if they lose to Lithuania as it looks like multiple teams from the Americas will make it to the next stage.

Billy Dat
09-03-2019, 09:29 AM
Halftime against Turkey, up 5 but should be up more. A very typical Team USA FIBA game, we had many opportunities to push a 9-10 point lead to 15 but then we miss some shots, usually because we get hacked and no call, and then they hit some 3s. Interesting to see former Florida point guard Scotty Wilbekin playing for Turkey. Mason still nailed to the bench. His lack of scoring has to be the reason. Our other bigs can both stroke 3s.

Billy Dat
09-03-2019, 09:48 AM
We are in a dogfight with Turkey, up 4 to start the 4th after Kemba hit a 30 foot 3 at the buzzer to end the 3rd.

Dr. Rosenrosen
09-03-2019, 10:05 AM
@$&#ing ESPN! Don’t they get enough of my money every month without forcing me to buy an add-on just to see these games? Disney and their money grab. Keep moving sports content behind different pay walls to extract the maximum vials of blood.

JasonEvans
09-03-2019, 10:08 AM
Watching the game... Myles Turner has been our best player. We are hitting just 32% of our 2-point shots... that is not good. The defensive communications is quite poor.

69-63 USA with 8 minutes left. Turkey is ok, but not a major medal contender. If we were to play like this against Serbia, we lose by 10+.

JasonEvans
09-03-2019, 10:10 AM
Tied at 71... 6 mins left

Billy Dat
09-03-2019, 10:14 AM
Game tied, 4:30 to go, Kemba headed to the line. Physical game. Up 1, we have gone small...and it pays off with a Joe Harris run out steal and layup..up 3 with 4:20 to go. I have no feel if we will win this game or not.

JasonEvans
09-03-2019, 10:22 AM
1:12 left, Turkey down 2 with the ball.

JasonEvans
09-03-2019, 10:22 AM
tied with 55 second left

JasonEvans
09-03-2019, 10:25 AM
Oh snap!!!! Down 2 with 12 seconds left.

JasonEvans
09-03-2019, 10:25 AM
Tatum to the line for 2 shots to tie the game. 0:00 left on the clock.

Billy Dat
09-03-2019, 10:27 AM
This is NUTS

JasonEvans
09-03-2019, 10:27 AM
Tatum to the line for 2 shots to tie the game. 0:00 left on the clock.

Make it 3 shots... he can win it.