Javin returning!

[scottdude8]

According to Jeff Goodman, and reported (correctly, woohoo!) by The Chronicle:

https://www.dukechronicle.com/article/2019/05/duke-mens-basketball-javin-delaurier-nba-draft

We’ve got our captains back!!! And a frontcourt that, even without Marques, will still be the envy of 95% of college basketball.

[gep]

This is good news, to be sure. Two 2-time senior captains returning (at least, I haven't heard anything about Jack). The team should be in good shape.

[sagegrouse]

This is good news, to be sure. Two 2-time senior captains returning (at least, I haven't heard anything about Jack). The team should be in good shape.

Here's my take: Next year we will return players who played 3,458 minutes, or 45.3 percent of the total minutes played this year. This year, we returned players who played 1,646 minutes in 2017-2018, 22.1 percent of the total minutes played. That's a big difference and a big deal.

[JasonEvans]

Javin is a great communicator on D and an excellent help defender who erases shots at the rim with tremendous frequency. For a team that looks like it will have lots of offensive firepower, his ability to make a difference at the other end of the floor will be invaluable. As an experienced captain, you know he will play a key role in teaching the new bigs how to move and play D at Duke. This is exceptionally good news!

-Jason "https://accsports.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/AP17301046762753.jpg" Evans

[OldPhiKap]

Javin is a great communicator on D and an excellent help defender who erases shots at the rim with tremendous frequency. For a team that looks like it will have lots of offensive firepower, his ability to make a difference at the other end of the floor will be invaluable. As an experienced captain, you know he will play a key role in teaching the new bigs how to move and play D at Duke. This is exceptionally good news!

-Jason "https://accsports.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/AP17301046762753.jpg" Evans

In these respects, he reminds me of my favorite non-Zion player for us over the last decade or so -- Amile Jefferson.

Go get one, Javin!

[UrinalCake]

Glad and relieved to have one of the two back, as we needed the experience and depth. It’s taken me a long time to come around to the idea of Javin as a 5, but he’s proven that he’s big and tough enough to defend at that position and it probably suits him best given his limited range. Having him and Carey split time at the 5 (maybe I’ll just say “being the biggest player” since people hate using positions) with Hurt and White at the 4 will give us a solid and versatile front court, as long as the freshmen can defend at even an average level.

Javin has always been one of my favorite players off the court, a really smart guy who has accepted his role and given whatever the team needs. Coach K always speaks highly of him. Looking forward to seeing him finish out his Duke career and hopefully play a larger role.

[chrishoke]

Great news. Luv Javin.

[Truth&Justise]

Here's my take: Next year we will return players who played 3,458 minutes, or 45.3 percent of the total minutes played this year. This year, we returned players who played 1,646 minutes in 2017-2018, 22.1 percent of the total minutes played. That's a big difference and a big deal.


Javin is a great communicator on D and an excellent help defender who erases shots at the rim with tremendous frequency. For a team that looks like it will have lots of offensive firepower, his ability to make a difference at the other end of the floor will be invaluable. As an experienced captain, you know he will play a key role in teaching the new bigs how to move and play D at Duke. This is exceptionally good news!

Very glad he is back. We needed at least one of Javin and Marques back, looks like it will be Javin. Along with Jack White and Tre Jones, he'll lead a veteran core that should stabilize the team, especially on defense.

But there is room for improvement. I remember in 2018 Javin briefly flirted with trying to shoot 3s. It made sense when he was in big lineups with Marvin Bagley and Wendell Carter, meaning Javin was more or less playing the wing. But that got scrapped last year as he solidified himself as a very good college 5. He doesn't need to try that again, but the next step I'd like to see in his growth is an improvement at the FT line. He shot 56% from FT last year. If he can get anywhere close to the 72% that Marques shot last year, that would be tremendous. Having a big--heck, anyone!--who can shoot FTs consistently is a huge plus. I'll leave it to you all to think of any time in the last year when improved FT shooting could have made a difference for the team.

[CDu]

This was what I expected would happen (Bolden would leave, DeLaurier would stay). Glad that at least one of the senior bigs will be back along with White to help with frontcourt continuity. And Carey, Hurt, and DeLaurier make for a very nice 3-man rotation in the frontcourt with DeLaurier able to defend the PF spot when paired with Carey and the C spot when paired with Hurt.

We will be a less talented, more experienced team next year. Hopefully the added experience will offset the loss in top-end talent. DeLaurier does provide another super run/jumpy athlete to a mix that isn't overly run/jumpy athletic next year.

Glad to have him back!

[Dukehk]

Great to have Javin back. He was immense in the last game of the season against msu.

Hope he continues that good form and no doubt he will fit in seamlessly as the 5 in this years team.

He is better than Bolden in every aspect other than shotblocking.

[plimnko]

if he can build on what i saw in last year's ncaa tournament..........Duke will have a pretty good front court.

[jimsumner]

Great to have Javin back. He was immense in the last game of the season against msu.

Hope he continues that good form and no doubt he will fit in seamlessly as the 5 in this years team.

He is better than Bolden in every aspect other than shotblocking.

If Bolden were coming back and DeLaurier weren't, we'd all be talking about how much better Bolden is.

Actually, the two were pretty close last year in blocks-per-minute. But Bolden has more shooting range, was a much better foul shooter, had a better assist-to-turnover ratio and committed way fewer fouls per minute than did DeLaurier.

Don't get me wrong. I'm delighted DeLaurier is coming back. But let's don't go all Aesop on Bolden.

[Jeffrey]

If Bolden were coming back and DeLaurier weren't, we'd all be talking about how much better Bolden is.


That's because we are a very positive group. Read any thread, after an unexpected loss, and you can easily see our very positive nature.

[MChambers]

If Bolden were coming back and DeLaurier weren't, we'd all be talking about how much better Bolden is.

Actually, the two were pretty close last year in blocks-per-minute. But Bolden has more shooting range, was a much better foul shooter, had a better assist-to-turnover ratio and committed way fewer fouls per minute than did DeLaurier.

Don't get me wrong. I'm delighted DeLaurier is coming back. But let's don't go all Aesop on Bolden.

Yes, without looking at the roster, I'd say Bolden is a little better at most things, except team defense. But Javin is a better fit with this roster, mostly because of Carey's presence. I can't see Carey and Bolden sharing the court, but I can see Javin sharing the court with either Carey or Hurt.

Maybe Javin will improve his shooting before next season?

[JasonEvans]

Maybe Javin will improve his shooting before next season?

http://yourpathpersonaltraining.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/DiverseFlyingPigs.png?w=640

-Jason "we are talking about a guy who has never hit even 57% of his FTs in a season.." Evans

[budwom]

If Bolden were coming back and DeLaurier weren't, we'd all be talking about how much better Bolden is.

Actually, the two were pretty close last year in blocks-per-minute. But Bolden has more shooting range, was a much better foul shooter, had a better assist-to-turnover ratio and committed way fewer fouls per minute than did DeLaurier.

Don't get me wrong. I'm delighted DeLaurier is coming back. But let's don't go all Aesop on Bolden.

Shooting range? Bolden? I agree on the other points, but I have no recollection of this shooting range you mention...I can barely recall him hitting anything outside of several feet (largely the same for Javin).
I'd go with equal shooting range, pretty poor for both of them.

[scottdude8]

Yes, without looking at the roster, I'd say Bolden is a little better at most things, except team defense. But Javin is a better fit with this roster, mostly because of Carey's presence. I can't see Carey and Bolden sharing the court, but I can see Javin sharing the court with either Carey or Hurt.

Maybe Javin will improve his shooting before next season?

This post gets at a couple key points that I'm betting informed both Javin and Marques' decisions. First, Javin fits more naturally on the court with Carey given his defensive versatility, and we know he can play at the 5 when Hurt is in. Second, while Marques is by far the superior offensive player, that also means he had less to prove/improve upon in a senior year. It's entirely possible that Javin can improve his shooting by a significant margin this offseason, and by showcasing that part of his game get a better look in the NBA. (Again, remember the example of MSU's Kenny Goins, the guy who ended our season... he went from a guy who MADE a total of four threes in his first three years on campus to a clutch 35% shooter from deep as a senior. These improvements between junior and seasons can and have happened.)

I've got a sneaky suspicion that Javin knows exactly what he needs to work on this offseason to improve his pro stock: namely his hands and shot on offense. And there's every reason to believe we'll get some degree of improvement from him in those regards. How large that improvement is will likely dictate whether Javin earns a look as a second rounder next year.

[scottdude8]

http://yourpathpersonaltraining.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/DiverseFlyingPigs.png?w=640

-Jason "we are talking about a guy who has never hit even 57% of his FTs in a season.." Evans

If that was your response to MChambers original post I can't imagine what you're gonna think of mine... lol.

[arnie]

Shooting range? Bolden? I agree on the other points, but I have no recollection of this shooting range you mention...I can barely recall him hitting anything outside of several feet (largely the same for Javin).
I'd go with equal shooting range, pretty poor for both of them.

Well, some on this board thought Bolden had a nice half hook from 3 feet. Of course, he rarely hit any, but they must have looked good to some😎

[jimsumner]

Shooting range? Bolden? I agree on the other points, but I have no recollection of this shooting range you mention...I can barely recall him hitting anything outside of several feet (largely the same for Javin).
I'd go with equal shooting range, pretty poor for both of them.

Bolden showed off some perimeter shooting ability in C2C and the exhibition games and then largely shut it down. He's actually a decent 3-point shooter in practices, at least as good as Williamson and much better than DeLaurier.

Down the line, I suspect we'll see him knocking down some 3-balls in the pros and wonder why we didn't see that more at Duke. Not sure if he didn't have the green light or didn't have the confidence. But a look at their respective foul-shooting percentages this past season suggests that Bolden has some skills that remained under-utilized.

[MChambers]

http://yourpathpersonaltraining.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/DiverseFlyingPigs.png?w=640

-Jason "we are talking about a guy who has never hit even 57% of his FTs in a season.." Evans

Exactly! Lots of room for improvement. I didn't say he'd become a good shooter.

[NSDukeFan]

http://yourpathpersonaltraining.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/DiverseFlyingPigs.png?w=640

-Jason "we are talking about a guy who has never hit even 57% of his FTs in a season.." Evans

The best thing about juniors is they become seniors?

[Edouble]

This post gets at a couple key points that I'm betting informed both Javin and Marques' decisions. First, Javin fits more naturally on the court with Carey given his defensive versatility, and we know he can play at the 5 when Hurt is in. Second, while Marques is by far the superior offensive player, that also means he had less to prove/improve upon in a senior year. It's entirely possible that Javin can improve his shooting by a significant margin this offseason, and by showcasing that part of his game get a better look in the NBA. (Again, remember the example of MSU's Kenny Goins, the guy who ended our season... he went from a guy who MADE a total of four threes in his first three years on campus to a clutch 35% shooter from deep as a senior. These improvements between junior and seasons can and have happened.)

I've got a sneaky suspicion that Javin knows exactly what he needs to work on this offseason to improve his pro stock: namely his hands and shot on offense. And there's every reason to believe we'll get some degree of improvement from him in those regards. How large that improvement is will likely dictate whether Javin earns a look as a second rounder next year.

Sneaky suspicion? Isn't that why he put his name into the draft? To clarify that exact information?

[Wander]

If Bolden were coming back and DeLaurier weren't, we'd all be talking about how much better Bolden is.


Nah. DeLaurier is definitely the one I'd choose to have back, if I were forced to only take one of the two. There may not be a huge gap between them in an absolute sense, but DeLaurier is the much better fit for next year's team because of his defensive versatility.

[jimsumner]

Nah. DeLaurier is definitely the one I'd choose to have back, if I were forced to only take one of the two. There may not be a huge gap between them in an absolute sense, but DeLaurier is the much better fit for next year's team because of his defensive versatility.


You missed my point. Read Aesop's fable about the fox and the sour grape.

[Wander]

You missed my point. Read Aesop's fable about the fox and the sour grape.

I got your point. I disagree with it. DeLaurier is a better fit of our team next year, and I think most of us would have that opinion even if he was leaving and Bolden was coming back instead. Having to bring up arguments like that a 0-7 career three point shooter was actually decent because he sometimes made shots in meaningless exhibition games illustrates why I think that.

Don't get me wrong, I'd rather have Bolden back than not – but I don't view the departure as a gigantic detriment to the team given our frontcourt situation.

[Spanarkel]

This post gets at a couple key points that I'm betting informed both Javin and Marques' decisions. First, Javin fits more naturally on the court with Carey given his defensive versatility, and we know he can play at the 5 when Hurt is in. Second, while Marques is by far the superior offensive player, that also means he had less to prove/improve upon in a senior year. It's entirely possible that Javin can improve his shooting by a significant margin this offseason, and by showcasing that part of his game get a better look in the NBA. (Again, remember the example of MSU's Kenny Goins, the guy who ended our season... he went from a guy who MADE a total of four threes in his first three years on campus to a clutch 35% shooter from deep as a senior. These improvements between junior and seasons can and have happened.)

I've got a sneaky suspicion that Javin knows exactly what he needs to work on this offseason to improve his pro stock: namely his hands and shot on offense. And there's every reason to believe we'll get some degree of improvement from him in those regards. How large that improvement is will likely dictate whether Javin earns a look as a second rounder next year.



Javin also could be expected to improve his fouling propensity(1 foul every 6.1 minutes last season.



The picture of his attempting to block/actually blocking the shot upstream in this thread shows perfect "follow through" on the block attempt (and please correct me if I'm wrong), but it's not ideal to follow through on a block as the refs often see the arm movement towards the shooter and call a foul, even if no actual contact occurred.


Very glad to have Javin back for his senior year!

[miramar]

I have to believe that expectations informed these decisions, for better or worse. If I'm #11 in the RSCI like Marques, i would think that if Frank Jackson at #14 has two years guaranteed for a total of $3 million then I can do the same. Or better.

If I'm #35 like Javin then I would expect to wait.

Maybe it's the Shavlik Randolph syndrome, but even if the player doesn't think that way then the family will convince him otherwise.

[Steven43]

Maybe it's the Shavlik Randolph syndrome, but even if the player doesn't think that way then the family will convince him otherwise.

What is the Shavlik Randolph syndrome?

[miramar]

What is the Shavlik Randolph syndrome?

I guess I should have explained it, but it seems that a lot of players are still thinking of their high school reputations and rankings when they decide whether to declare for the draft.

[sagegrouse]

I have to believe that expectations informed these decisions, for better or worse. If I'm #11 in the RSCI like Marques, i would think that if Frank Jackson at #14 has two years guaranteed for a total of $3 million then I can do the same. Or better.

If I'm #35 like Javin then I would expect to wait.

Maybe it's the Shavlik Randolph syndrome, but even if the player doesn't think that way then the family will convince him otherwise.


What is the Shavlik Randolph syndrome?

Actually, there should be a "Shavlik Randolph syndrome" as a medical term. He played one year with a half tennis ball inserted in one of his sneakers to protect the ball of his foot, which was very sore. Later, it was determined he had a tiny fracture on the tip of his hip bone. His nervous system projected the pain to his foot -- there was nothing wrong with his foot.

I believe I have this story right -- or, did I just dream it?

[OldPhiKap]

Actually, there should be a "Shavlik Randolph syndrome" as a medical term. He played one year with a half tennis ball inserted in one of his sneakers to protect the ball of his foot, which was very sore. Later, it was determined he had a tiny fracture on the tip of his hip bone. His nervous system projected the pain to his foot -- there was nothing wrong with his foot.

I believe I have this story right -- or, did I just dream it?

Shav also had a hip problem and also Mono IIRC.

Shav played about six years in the NBA, and is still getting payed to play basketball some 16-17 years after leaving Duke.

Not a bad career.

[jimsumner]

I got your point. I disagree with it. DeLaurier is a better fit of our team next year, and I think most of us would have that opinion even if he was leaving and Bolden was coming back instead. Having to bring up arguments like that a 0-7 career three point shooter was actually decent because he sometimes made shots in meaningless exhibition games illustrates why I think that.

Don't get me wrong, I'd rather have Bolden back than not – but I don't view the departure as a gigantic detriment to the team given our frontcourt situation.

I was not addressing which one of Bolden or DeLaurier I would prefer for next season. The day after we learn that Bolden is gone and JDL is coming back I was responding to a post that stated that the guy coming back does everything--except one thing--better than the guy not coming back. The contention is demonstrably false and easily disprovable. My point was that if the situations were reversed, the Duke fan base would prefer Bolden over DeLaurier because of a natural human phenomena described by Aesop almost 3,000 years ago.

Bolden is a better foul shooter, a better passer, a better ball handler and fouls less, all clear with even a casual look at the statistics.

I do not have a shot chart but if we did I'm pretty certain it would show greater range on Bolden's made shots from last season than DeLaurier's made shots. I do know anyone associated with Duke basketball who would agree with the premise that DeLaurier is a better shooter than Bolden or has comparable pro potential as a shooter.

Please read the post to which I was responding, which strongly suggests a factually uninformed bias towards the grapes we can reach over the grapes that are out of reach.

[cato]

I guess I should have explained it, but it seems that a lot of players are still thinking of their high school reputations and rankings when they decide whether to declare for the draft.

I would not call that the Shav syndrome. I would call that the Will Avery syndrome.

Shav seems to have made a great decision in turning pro. I’m sorry his Duke career did live up to expectations, but am happy for him that he played in the NBA for a nice career.

[CDu]

I was not addressing which one of Bolden or DeLaurier I would prefer for next season. The day after we learn that Bolden is gone and JDL is coming back I was responding to a post that stated that the guy coming back does everything--except one thing--better than the guy not coming back. The contention is demonstrably false and easily disprovable. My point was that if the situations were reversed, the Duke fan base would prefer Bolden over DeLaurier because of a natural human phenomena described by Aesop almost 3,000 years ago.

Bolden is a better foul shooter, a better passer, a better ball handler and fouls less, all clear with even a casual look at the statistics.

I do not have a shot chart but if we did I'm pretty certain it would show greater range on Bolden's made shots from last season than DeLaurier's made shots. I do know anyone associated with Duke basketball who would agree with the premise that DeLaurier is a better shooter than Bolden or has comparable pro potential as a shooter.

Please read the post to which I was responding, which strongly suggests a factually uninformed bias towards the grapes we can reach over the grapes that are out of reach.

The problem is that while Bolden is better at shooting, passing, and ballhandling (and it is a maybe on the last two; statistically they were comparable in assist and turnover rate), he wasn’t good enough at any of those things for it to be of value on the court for Duke. So his play has been largely restricted to the same offensive role as DeLaurier: screen-and-roll and rebound guy, finish around the basket guy.

So in terms of value added on the court, the two were eerily similar; Bolden slightly better on offense, DeLaurier slightly better on defense. Now, if either was asked to play an expanded offensive role, Bolden would almost certainly do better. But in terms of what they were asked to do at Duke, they provided almost identical value.

But in terms of fit next year, DeLaurier certainly seems the better option. He has the mobility to play PF with Carey at C, and the height/length to play the C spot with Hurt at PF. Bolden really wouldn’t have been able to pair with Carey very well. So I think it is fair to say that things worked out best for Duke given that one would leave.

[jimsumner]

The problem is that while Bolden is better at shooting, passing, and ballhandling (and it is a maybe on the last two; statistically they were comparable in assist and turnover rate), he wasn’t good enough at any of those things for it to be of value on the court for Duke. So his play has been largely restricted to the same offensive role as DeLaurier: screen-and-roll and rebound guy, finish around the basket guy.

So in terms of value added on the court, the two were eerily similar; Bolden slightly better on offense, DeLaurier slightly better on defense. Now, if either was asked to play an expanded offensive role, Bolden would almost certainly do better. But in terms of what they were asked to do at Duke, they provided almost identical value.

But in terms of fit next year, DeLaurier certainly seems the better option. He has the mobility to play PF with Carey at C, and the height/length to play the C spot with Hurt at PF. Bolden really wouldn’t have been able to pair with Carey very well. So I think it is fair to say that things worked out best for Duke given that one would leave.

The extent to which Bolden would have been able to play with Carey was/is one of the great unknowns. I think Bolden would have better with Carey when Duke had the ball, DeLaurier would have fit better when Duke was on defense. But that's all conjectural because we don't really know what Carey can and cannot do at the collegiate level.

Curiously, I'm not sure anyone has mentioned JDL's greatest potential value to the team.

Again, please don't take anything below as a criticism of Bolden, who worked hard, did what he was asked and was a good teammate.

But DeLaurier has more advanced leadership skills. I don't pretend to know if leadership is born or developed or is thrust upon one. But whether at work or in school or in social situations, we've all seen that dynamic where someone's voice is more respected than other people's voices.

DeLaurier's voice is respected, on the court and in the locker room. Like the old E.F. Hutton commercial, when he talks, people listen.

The United States Military Academy is one of the world's best institutions at developing leaders and Krzyzewski certainly has embraced that and run with it. I think he prioritizes leadership and communication skills as much as anything and DeLaurier has those qualities and Duke has and will benefit from them.

[Steven43]

The problem is that while Bolden is better at shooting, passing, and ballhandling (and it is a maybe on the last two; statistically they were comparable in assist and turnover rate), he wasn’t good enough at any of those things for it to be of value on the court for Duke. So his play has been largely restricted to the same offensive role as DeLaurier: screen-and-roll and rebound guy, finish around the basket guy.

So in terms of value added on the court, the two were eerily similar; Bolden slightly better on offense, DeLaurier slightly better on defense. Now, if either was asked to play an expanded offensive role, Bolden would almost certainly do better. But in terms of what they were asked to do at Duke, they provided almost identical value.

But in terms of fit next year, DeLaurier certainly seems the better option. He has the mobility to play PF with Carey at C, and the height/length to play the C spot with Hurt at PF. Bolden really wouldn’t have been able to pair with Carey very well. So I think it is fair to say that things worked out best for Duke given that one would leave.
I agree with your assessment much more than that of the esteemed Jim Sumner. From the very beginning of when it was first mentioned that both Bolden and Delaurier were testing the pro waters I was solidly behind Javin being the one Duke really needed to return. It had nothing to do with the supposed psychological affect of favoring the outcome after the fact.

I just felt Duke played better when Javin was in the game. I had more confidence in him making positive plays than I did Bolden. Still, Marques had numerous highlight-reel blocks and dunks last season, providing some great moments for Duke fans. He will be missed.

[CDu]

I agree with your assessment much more than that of the esteemed Jim Sumner. From the very beginning of when it was first mentioned that both Bolden and Delaurier were testing the pro waters I was solidly behind Javin being the one Duke really needed to return. It had nothing to do with the supposed psychological affect of favoring the outcome after the fact.

I just felt Duke played better when Javin was in the game. I had more confidence in him making positive plays than I did Bolden. Still, Marques had numerous highlight-reel blocks and dunks last season, providing some great moments for Duke fans. He will be missed.

Yeah, I mean I would obviously rather have both. But I felt DeLaurier was the better fit a month or two ago once it became likely we would get Hurt. And having both would likely relegate one to basically an insurance role or mopup duty. I don’t think Bolden can pair with Carey defensively, so his minutes were going to be capped at backup C to begin with, and - if last year was an indication - he would likely have split those with DeLaurier anyway. DeLaurier has more defensive versatility, and as such appears to be a better fit in the third big role with Carey and Hurt seemingly one-position guys defensively.

Jim did bring up something interesting - that DeLaurier has more leadership skills than Bolden. I guess context clues (DeLaurier a captain but not the more experienced Bolden) would have suggested it, but it is nice to hear that explicitly stated as a skill of DeLaurier’s. All the more reason I am glad he is back.

[OldPhiKap]

We have who we have,

We don’t who we don’t.

Let’s go Duke. We’ll be competitive and I’ll enjoy the ride.

[jimsumner]

We have who we have,

We don’t who we don’t.

.

Reads like a John Prine lyric. An outtake from "Dear Abby?"

[OldPhiKap]

Reads like a John Prine lyric. An outtake from "Dear Abby?"

“You must spread some Comments around before commenting on jimsumner again.”

Any comparison to John Prine may be the biggest compliment I have ever received.

Signed, Just Married.

[Steven43]

Reads like a John Prine lyric. An outtake from "Dear Abby?"

“Dear Abby” — fun song we would sing at summer camp. By the way, John Prine is performing at DPAC in the late fall. Don’t miss it.

[UrinalCake]

The extent to which Bolden would have been able to play with Carey was/is one of the great unknowns. I think Bolden would have better with Carey when Duke had the ball, DeLaurier would have fit better when Duke was on defense. But that's all conjectural because we don't really know what Carey can and cannot do at the collegiate level.

I recall two seasons ago when Bagley got hurt, we played Bolden with Wendell Carter for stretches and that lineup was surprisingly effective. I also recall playing Okafor and Marshall Plumlee together in the 1k game against Saint John's, and that sparked a big comeback. So who knows. I actually think that Bolden was better than Javin last season at defending on the perimeter when switched onto guards. He fouled less and had the length to recover and still block the shot. Also, saying that Bolden is a better shooter than Javin is like saying I'm a better dunker than my daughter. Neither showed any range at all and neither had to be guarded outside of the paint. But again I am happy we got one of them back. As someone famous once said, it's not how much we lost, it's about how much we have left.

[Kedsy]

I recall two seasons ago when Bagley got hurt, we played Bolden with Wendell Carter for stretches and that lineup was surprisingly effective.

I can't say for sure, but I don't think this is entirely true. The first game Bagley was out, Carter and Bolden combined for 59 minutes, so in that game the two must have played together a fair amount. But K must not have liked it that much, because in the other three games Marvin missed, Wendell and Marques combined for 47, 47, and 46 minutes, meaning they probably didn't play together for more than a few minutes at a time.

[jimsumner]

“You must spread some Comments around before commenting on jimsumner again.”

Any comparison to John Prine may be the biggest compliment I have ever received.

Signed, Just Married.

You have no complaints.

[lotusland]

“Dear Abby” — fun song we would sing at summer camp. By the way, John Prine is performing at DPAC in the late fall. Don’t miss it.

Me too at church camp but I didn’t learn the last verse until I bought the cassette.

[OldPhiKap]

You have no complaints.

Yeah, I do — still can’t spork ‘ya! ;-)

[CDu]

I can't say for sure, but I don't think this is entirely true. The first game Bagley was out, Carter and Bolden combined for 59 minutes, so in that game the two must have played together a fair amount. But K must not have liked it that much, because in the other three games Marvin missed, Wendell and Marques combined for 47, 47, and 46 minutes, meaning they probably didn't play together for more than a few minutes at a time.

The minutes that Carter shared with Bolden were all in a zone defense. That would have been the only way that a Carey/Bolden airing would work defensively as well.

[MChambers]

“Dear Abby” — fun song we would sing at summer camp. By the way, John Prine is performing at DPAC in the late fall. Don’t miss it.

"It's a happy enchilada and you think you're gonna drown."

John Prine, as misheard by many.

[budwom]

Bolden showed off some perimeter shooting ability in C2C and the exhibition games and then largely shut it down. He's actually a decent 3-point shooter in practices, at least as good as Williamson and much better than DeLaurier.

Down the line, I suspect we'll see him knocking down some 3-balls in the pros and wonder why we didn't see that more at Duke. Not sure if he didn't have the green light or didn't have the confidence. But a look at their respective foul-shooting percentages this past season suggests that Bolden has some skills that remained under-utilized.

I hope you're right, Jim, but Marques's shooting has been pretty Horvathian...Zion hit 34% of his threes, Bolden never made one in a game....right now I'm a bit skeptical, if also hopeful.

[superdave]

Javin will allow us to switch screens a lot, which means a more effective man to man.

We will have much less dynamic playmaking on offense, so I'd expect more offensive sets and Tre to be really in control a lot. Javin only averaged 2 FGA per game last year but shot almost 75%. If he can come close to that %, then he'll be a pretty efficient 5th option.

[clinresga]

Javin will allow us to switch screens a lot, which means a more effective man to man.

We will have much less dynamic playmaking on offense, so I'd expect more offensive sets and Tre to be really in control a lot. Javin only averaged 2 FGA per game last year but shot almost 75%. If he can come close to that %, then he'll be a pretty efficient 5th option.

I'm clearly in the minority Bolden >= DeLaurier camp, but now am hoping to be proven terribly wrong. My worries with Javin remain the obvious. 75% shooting percentage is glittery, but virtually all of his scoring was from putbacks or open dunks/layups after a defensive switch/breakdown left him open. While I get that Bolden's arsenal of hooks and the rare 3 pointer was ineffective, at least he had them in his repertoire. I've seen nothing from Javin to suggest he has any ability to make his own shot, either back to the basket or from mid-range or beyond. and thus am skeptical that he will maintain a 75% shooting percentage and increase his FGA/game over last year. Add bad hands, terrible FT percentage, and the excessive fouling and I'm not sure he adds much offensively.

Agree that switching 1-5, defensive intensity and intangibles are pluses, and I'm no detractor overall, but my offensive expectations remain tempered.

[UrinalCake]

The minutes that Carter shared with Bolden were all in a zone defense. That would have been the only way that a Carey/Bolden airing would work defensively as well.

I’m curious as to how much zone we’ll play this season. Last year we had phenomenal athletes who could lock down one on one and use their absurd physical gifts to erase mistakes when they got beat or were out of position. But next year’s roster won’t have that (very few teams do). We’ll be a lot less switchable, with several players more tied to traditional positional roles, so K will have to figure out a scheme to handle the pick and rolls that opponents will use to force mismatches.

We don’t know what kind of defenders the freshmen will be, but I think it’s fair to assume that Carey and Hurt will struggle guarding on the perimeter, so using a zone like we did in 2018 could be effective.

[CDu]

I'm clearly in the minority Bolden >= DeLaurier camp, but now am hoping to be proven terribly wrong. My worries with Javin remain the obvious. 75% shooting percentage is glittery, but virtually all of his scoring was from putbacks or open dunks/layups after a defensive switch/breakdown left him open. While I get that Bolden's arsenal of hooks and the rare 3 pointer was ineffective, at least he had them in his repertoire. I've seen nothing from Javin to suggest he has any ability to make his own shot, either back to the basket or from mid-range or beyond. and thus am skeptical that he will maintain a 75% shooting percentage and increase his FGA/game over last year. Add bad hands, terrible FT percentage, and the excessive fouling and I'm not sure he adds much offensively.

I mean, DeLaurier is almost certainly not going to improve his FGA/game and continue to shoot 75% from the field. But he isn't going to be asked to do that. He isn't going to be asked to create any offense. Nor would Bolden be asked to create much offense. That's just not the role those guys will be/would have been asked to play.

Bolden is unquestionably the more skilled scorer of the two. But he has never shown himself to be skilled enough as a scorer to force the staff to make him a consistent part of the offense. If both guys were on a team that was worse than Duke, Bolden would probably separate himself more due to his better offensive skills. But when you are still the 5th option on offense, being a better offensive player doesn't really move the needle much.

[CDu]

I’m curious as to how much zone we’ll play this season. Last year we had phenomenal athletes who could lock down one on one and use their absurd physical gifts to erase mistakes when they got beat or were out of position. But next year’s roster won’t have that (very few teams do). We’ll be a lot less switchable, with several players more tied to traditional positional roles, so K will have to figure out a scheme to handle the pick and rolls that opponents will try to use to force mismatches.

We don’t know what kind of defenders the freshmen will be, but I think it’s fair to assume that Carey and Hurt will struggle guarding on the perimeter, so using a zone like we did in 2018 could be effective.

Maybe. But the zone worked in 2018 in large part because we were incredibly long. Next year's team doesn't have that: Carey and Hurt are fairly tall, but neither has the long arms that help make a zone so imposing.

And a zone would devalue our greatest returning defensive asset (Tre Jones, whose on-ball defense is spectacular).

I do have concerns about our defense next year, whether it be zone or man-to-man. I definitely don't think a zone will work as well with next year's group as it did with the 2018 group.

[UrinalCake]

Maybe. But the zone worked in 2018 in large part because we were incredibly long. Next year's team doesn't have that: Carey and Hurt are fairly tall, but neither has the long arms that help make a zone so imposing.

And a zone would devalue our greatest returning defensive asset (Tre Jones, whose on-ball defense is spectacular).

Bagley actually didn’t have that great of a wingspan, 7’1” compared to 7’0” for Carey. But yeah, Carter was definitely longer than Hurt and obviously a better shot blocker. Duval/Allen/Trent were longer and more athletic than Jones/O’Connell/Moore, although Moore is supposed to be an excellent defender so I think our backcourt should be ok as a whole.

Agree that the defense will revolve around Tre and his on-ball pressure which makes everyone else’s job easier. I think one of Jack or Javin has to start because K is going to want an experienced defender down low.

[CDu]

Bagley actually didn’t have that great of a wingspan, 7’1” compared to 7’0” for Carey. But yeah, Carter was definitely longer than Hurt and obviously a better shot blocker. Duval/Allen/Trent were longer and more athletic than Jones/O’Connell/Moore, although Moore is supposed to be an excellent defender so I think our backcourt should be ok as a whole.

Agree that the defense will revolve around Tre and his on-ball pressure which makes everyone else’s job easier. I think one of Jack or Javin has to start because K is going to want an experienced defender down low.

Right, Bagley is comparable to Carey in length, but more agile/mobile/rangy. But Hurt has probably a good 10 inches less of a wingspan as Carter. And Duval was way more suited to a zone with his long arms than Tre Jones.

I wouldn't be surprised if White starts at SF next year, with a healthy dose of DeLaurier rotating with the two freshmen bigs. And I would expect there to be some Carey/White and DeLaurier/Hurt pairings at C/PF so that we have a senior paired with a freshman for a good chunk of the game.

[Reddevil]

I mean, DeLaurier is almost certainly not going to improve his FGA/game and continue to shoot 75% from the field. But he isn't going to be asked to do that. He isn't going to be asked to create any offense. Nor would Bolden be asked to create much offense. That's just not the role those guys will be/would have been asked to play.

Bolden is unquestionably the more skilled scorer of the two. But he has never shown himself to be skilled enough as a scorer to force the staff to make him a consistent part of the offense. If both guys were on a team that was worse than Duke, Bolden would probably separate himself more due to his better offensive skills. But when you are still the 5th option on offense, being a better offensive player doesn't really move the needle much.

I second this. His ability to switch on defense and rebound is valuable as is his pick and roll and put back offense. If this is what he provides this year that would be terrific. Oh, and don't forget a little thing called leadership. So glad he's coming back!

[CDu]

I second this. His ability to switch on defense and rebound is valuable as is his pick and roll and put back offense. If this is what he provides this year that would be terrific. Oh, and don't forget a little thing called leadership. So glad he's coming back!

Right, I think the value DeLaurier will provide is:
1. Leadership and experience
2. Defensive versatility (since our two freshmen appear to be one-position guys)
3. Athleticism and hustle plays (blocks, steals, offensive rebounds)
4. Willing screener and role player
5. Minutes filler as the 5th guy on offense

If he can cut down on the foul rate, he becomes really valuable as the freshmen hit speed bumps in games. But I'm not at all worried about his limited offensive skill set. He's just simply not going to be asked to do much shooting next year anyway.

[HereBeforeCoachK]

If he can cut down on the foul rate, he becomes really valuable as the freshmen hit speed bumps in games. But I'm not at all worried about his limited offensive skill set. He's just simply not going to be asked to do much shooting next year anyway.


I'll agree with your assessment....only add that if I were given height of 6-11 and extraordinary athleticism by Mother Nature - I might've spent a little time developing some serious offensive skills to go with it.

[jv001]

Glad to have you back, Javin. Please work on getting stronger, ball handling and fouling less. We need your leadership on the court. Good luck Marques as you pursue your dream. GoDuke!

[CDu]

I'll agree with your assessment...only add that if I were given height of 6-11 and extraordinary athleticism by Mother Nature - I might've spent a little time developing some serious offensive skills to go with it.

Let's be fair to DeLaurier. "A little time" won't develop serious skills. It's hard for even a normal-sized person to develop serious bball skills. Takes thousands and thousands of hours of practice. Add in that he's 6'10" with very long arms, and the challenge is even greater (harder to manipulate those long limbs fluidly, which is partly why so few really tall guys are great shooters). I'm sure that DeLaurier has worked really really hard to try to be a better shooter. For some guys, it's just not meant to be.

[HereBeforeCoachK]

Let's be fair to DeLaurier. "A little time" won't develop serious skills. It's hard for even a normal-sized person to develop serious bball skills. Takes thousands and thousands of hours of practice. Add in that he's 6'10" with very long arms, and the challenge is even greater (harder to manipulate those long limbs fluidly, which is partly why so few really tall guys are great shooters). I'm sure that DeLaurier has worked really really hard to try to be a better shooter. For some guys, it's just not meant to be.

Uhhhhhhhhh - "a little time" might've just been, you know, one of those rhetorical devices....

As for the other, I have developed SERIOUS skill in numerous sports, including basketball, without the benefit of being 6-11 (oh, wait, 6-10, that makes it all different) or without the blessing of being particularly naturally athletic. I would say I'm average at that at best - and thus relegated to HS jock status and some of the more competitive adult leagues.

And FTR, I also have long arms for my size, and I am not convinced that makes it easier/harder to develop fluidity as opposed to average arms. It is a net big advantage in basketball. So I stand by my comments, but will of course root hard for Javin this coming season and beyond.

[CDu]

Uhhhhhhhhh - "a little time" might've just been, you know, one of those rhetorical devices...

As for the other, I have developed SERIOUS skill in numerous sports, including basketball, without the benefit of being 6-11 (oh, wait, 6-10, that makes it all different) or without the blessing of being particularly naturally athletic. I would say I'm average at that at best - and thus relegated to HS jock status and some of the more competitive adult leagues.

With all due respect, I would suggest that your serious skills pale in comparison to the level of a college basketball player. I watched Chris Duhon drain 3 after 3 after 3 and just dominate offensively in rec league-level play during the summers. When it came to playing against college players? His shot looked broken. The pace and length and skill of the opposition makes such a huge difference.


And FTR, I also have long arms for my size, and I am not convinced that makes it easier/harder to develop fluidity as opposed to average arms. It is a net big advantage in basketball. So I stand by my comments, but will of course root hard for Javin this coming season and beyond.

And unless you are 6'10" with those long arms - again with all due respect - your experience with long arms for your size just doesn't relate at all. And again, your experience in adult leagues just isn't in the same neighborhood/county/state/universe as competing at the college level.

[Kedsy]

Duval/Allen/Trent were longer and more athletic than Jones/O’Connell/Moore, although Moore is supposed to be an excellent defender so I think our backcourt should be ok as a whole.

It may be worth mentioning that Wendell Moore's reported wingspan is 6'11" (an inch and a half longer than Trevon Duval's 6'9.5" and 2.5" longer than Gary Trent's 6'8.5") and while I couldn't find a wingspan number for Alex O'Connell, he's 6'6" with a bit longer than average-looking arms, so I'd guess at least 6'8" or 6'9". So (a) I'm not entirely convinced the 2018 starting perimeter trio is longer than next your year's projected trio, but if they are (b) it's not by much, and (c) basically the entire difference would be Grayson Allen over Tre Jones.

[NSDukeFan]

With all due respect, I would suggest that your serious skills pale in comparison to the level of a college basketball player. I watched Chris Duhon drain 3 after 3 after 3 and just dominate offensively in rec league-level play during the summers. When it came to playing against college players? His shot looked broken. The pace and length and skill of the opposition makes such a huge difference.



And unless you are 6'10" with those long arms - again with all due respect - your experience with long arms for your size just doesn't relate at all. And again, your experience in adult leagues just isn't in the same neighborhood/county/state/universe as competing at the college level.

I agree. Otherwise, why wouldn’t all athletic tall players play a year at Duke, or other major program, develop some serious offensive skills and then go make millions in the NBA? I expect all the athletic 6’9 players playing for the other 300+ college programs are also working on their skills as well. It is much easier to say you would improve but don’t have the athleticism and/or height than to actually become one of the best in the world. Unless you also believe Justin Robinson has been loafing the last few years, instead of developing the necessary skills, as he has genetics, is 6’9, and is reasonably athletic.

[JayZee]

With all due respect, I would suggest that your serious skills pale in comparison to the level of a college basketball player. I watched Chris Duhon drain 3 after 3 after 3 and just dominate offensively in rec league-level play during the summers. When it came to playing against college players? His shot looked broken. The pace and length and skill of the opposition makes such a huge difference.



And unless you are 6'10" with those long arms - again with all due respect - your experience with long arms for your size just doesn't relate at all. And again, your experience in adult leagues just isn't in the same neighborhood/county/state/universe as competing at the college level.

Totally agree - kind of like the PGA slogan - "These guys are good" My vignette is that I played with Crawford Palmer once at Duke when he was trying to get back in shape after an injury. Remember him? #2 ranked center behind Alonzo. Looked like he had hands made of stone when on the court. Well when he played with us, he was like Grant Hill. Behind the back dribbles at full speed, reverse tomahawk dunks. Unreal. But in ACC play, it was like he had two left feet and hands.

[sagegrouse]

Totally agree - kind of like the PGA slogan - "These guys are good" My vignette is that I played with Crawford Palmer once at Duke when he was trying to get back in shape after an injury. Remember him? #2 ranked center behind Alonzo. Looked like he had hands made of stone when on the court. Well when he played with us, he was like Grant Hill. Behind the back dribbles at full speed, reverse tomahawk dunks. Unreal. But in ACC play, it was like he had two left feet and hands.

He peaked in France as a member of its Silver Medal team in the Sydney Olympics in 2000.

[JayZee]

He peaked in France as a member of its Silver Medal team in the Sydney Olympics in 2000.

Well I peaked playing with him in Cameron. We all run our own race I guess...

[Furniture]

https://mobile.twitter.com/javind_12/status/1133830525947240448

Let’s run it back one more time with my brothers!

https://www.instagram.com/p/ByD0R49nEXe/?igshid=1emn3w92xwzgo

[JasonEvans]

Shav played about six years in the NBA, and is still getting payed to play basketball some 16-17 years after leaving Duke.

Not a bad career.

True, but it is worth noting that when Shav was a high school junior and well into his senior season, the expectation was that Shav would become the next Larry Bird.

-Jason "after his first two games at Duke, I boldly declared that it was a lock that Shav's jersey would be retired some day... I was kinda wrong" Evans

[arnie]

True, but it is worth noting that when Shav was a high school junior and well into his senior season, the expectation was that Shav would become the next Larry Bird.

-Jason "after his first two games at Duke, I boldly declared that it was a lock that Shav's jersey would be retired some day... I was kinda wrong" Evans

Yep and the infamous recruiting guru Bob Gibbons actually said at the beginning of Shav’s HS senior year “Comparing Larry Bird to Shavlik Randolph may be an insult to Randolph”.

[Steven43]

Yep and the infamous recruiting guru Bob Gibbons actually said at the beginning of Shav’s HS senior year “Comparing Larry Bird to Shavlik Randolph may be an insult to Randolph”.

Gibbons compared Randolph favorably with the greatest basketball player (Larry Bird) of an entire generation?? Did he really say something that incredibly foolish?

[Spanarkel]

Gibbons compared Randolph favorably with the greatest basketball player (Larry Bird) of an entire generation?? Did he really say something that incredibly foolish?

Well, the Duke coaching staff apparently is using comparisons to Laettner in its recruitment of rising HS senior Walker Kessler.

“[The Duke coaches’] thing was they’re going to prepare you for the NBA because we know that you can make it, and kind of an old comparison, but [they said] Christian Laettner is kind of a similar [player],” Kessler said. “I know, it’s a big, bold statement, but that was kind of their thing: they’re just going to prepare me.” (Ball Durham, 4/9/19)

[OldPhiKap]

True, but it is worth noting that when Shav was a high school junior and well into his senior season, the expectation was that Shav would become the next Larry Bird.

-Jason "after his first two games at Duke, I boldly declared that it was a lock that Shav's jersey would be retired some day... I was kinda wrong" Evans

Oh, I absolutely agree that Shav did not meet the hyped expectations.

The question is, which was the reason -- Shav, or the hyped expectations?


Shav is/was not a bust by any stretch of the imagination IMO (which I think was the original point to which I was responding although I've forgotten by now). He has had a long and serviceable career as a professional basketball player. He was not the second coming of a legend though, and it probably was not right for us to put that on a kid's shoulders in high school.

[DevilYouKnow]

Getting either Javin or Bolden back was almost as good as getting both back, and maybe easier to manage.

If both left, we would have a huge hole in the rotation. With one back, we're in great shape.

Not dissing Bolden.

[arnie]

Gibbons compared Randolph favorably with the greatest basketball player (Larry Bird) of an entire generation?? Did he really say something that incredibly foolish?

Yes, he felt Shav was so much further along than Bird was at the same age. Shay’s stock dropped during his senior year, but Gibbons kept gushing about his future. Back then in the ice age, Bob Gibbons was the “man”.

[lotusland]

Well, the Duke coaching staff apparently is using comparisons to Laettner in its recruitment of rising HS senior Walker Kessler.

“[The Duke coaches’] thing was they’re going to prepare you for the NBA because we know that you can make it, and kind of an old comparison, but [they said] Christian Laettner is kind of a similar [player],” Kessler said. “I know, it’s a big, bold statement, but that was kind of their thing: they’re just going to prepare me.” (Ball Durham, 4/9/19)

He only needs to play in 4 Final Fours, 3 championship games and win 2 Championships to live up to the comparison. Nothing to it.

[jimsumner]

Yes, he felt Shav was so much further along than Bird was at the same age. Shay’s stock dropped during his senior year, but Gibbons kept gushing about his future. Back then in the ice age, Bob Gibbons was the “man”.

I thought Gibbons stopped gushing about Randolph about the time he realized he wasn't going to Carolina.

[Troublemaker]

Gibbons compared Randolph favorably with the greatest basketball player (Larry Bird) of an entire generation?? Did he really say something that incredibly foolish?

There was like a 20-year period (~mid-80s to ~mid-2000s) where any tall, white basketball player who was pretty good was compared to Bird. (Nowadays, I think the go-to comparison is Dirk).

It was always silly, especially since none of them owned Bird's greatest skill, which was his genius passing ability. They were just tall, white, and sometimes pretty good at putting it in the hoop.

[arnie]

I thought Gibbons stopped gushing about Randolph about the time he realized he wasn't going to Carolina.

Yea probably so. I recall listening to sports radio in Charlotte when Danny Ferry was choosing between Duke and the Cheats. The silence and disbelief from the radio host when a recruiting expert (maybe Gibbons) predicted Ferry to Duke was truly enjoyable.

[johnb]

Yea probably so. I recall listening to sports radio in Charlotte when Danny Ferry was choosing between Duke and the Cheats. The silence and disbelief from the radio host when a recruiting expert (maybe Gibbons) predicted Ferry to Duke was truly enjoyable.

The only time I ever called the Duke basketball office was on signing day to ask whether Ferry had signed. As I recall, the secretary said there hadn’t been an official announcement, but that she did say I’d be happy with the result.

[jimsumner]

Gibbons was a frequent guest on Gary Dornburg's show on WPTF, here in Raleigh. May they both RIP. It was a more civilized time. No shock jocks. Gentle souls inhabitated the air waves.

Anyway, Gibbons was on around the time that Ferry signed with Duke.

A pro-Carolina caller called in with the premise that everyone knew that the team that missed on Ferry would sign J.R. Reid the following year. And since Reid was so much better than Ferry, Dean Smith was actually glad he had missed on Ferry.

To Gibbons' credit he essentially laughed the caller off the air.

[HereBeforeCoachK]

Gibbons was a frequent guest on Gary Dornburg's show on WPTF, here in Raleigh. May they both RIP. It was a more civilized time. No shock jocks. Gentle souls inhabitated the air waves..

OMG a Gary Dornburg mention...hadn't thought about that guy in ages. This goes back to the days when most houses in Raleigh could only get one radio station...680 AM...and one TV station....Channel 5....or so it seemed.

...paging Wally Ausley.....Ray Reeve.....Bill Jackson...(I think that was his name)