Beilein to... Cleveland

[jcannon]

Michigan’s John Beilein has agreed to a five-year deal to become coach of the Cleveland Cavaliers, league sources tell ESPN.

https://twitter.com/sportscenter/status/1127919229313933312?s=21

[ChillinDuke]

Hahahahaha oh man

- Chillin

[CrazyNotCrazie]

Michigan’s John Beilein has agreed to a five-year deal to become coach of the Cleveland Cavaliers, league sources tell ESPN.

Not clear why he would make that move. Best of luck to him.

That is a huge job opening that will likely have very big implications on the coaching carousel.

[jcannon]

Agree Crazy. He has built/rebuilt a strong program the last few years, so I am sure the job would be attractive to a lot of people.

[JasonEvans]

Wow... just wow. This will have major implications across college hoops with coaches changing jobs, unless Michigan promotes one of his assistants. We need Scott to weigh in on this.

Michigan was set to be a preseason top 10 team. He's leaving a really great situation for a really bad one. Coaching in the NBA is nothing like coaching in college. I wish him well, but find this move very strange (though I imagine he is getting a nice raise).

[devildeac]

Quick, somebody check and see if scottdude8 is still conscious...

:eek:

[Matches]

Michigan was set to be a preseason top 10 team. He's leaving a really great situation for a really bad one. Coaching in the NBA is nothing like coaching in college. I wish him well, but find this move very strange (though I imagine he is getting a nice raise).

At age 66, maybe he wants to coach at the highest level. Or, y'know, whatever it is that the Cavs are.

[Troublemaker]

Remember when everyone was so sure Beilien was just posturing for more money from Michigan? Don't be so sure.

Good for him. The NBA is an offensive league, and he's an offensive genius. Let's see if he can get the Cavs to overachieve.

From Duke's perspective, it looks like one of his recruits in 2019 is a top-50ish player who can really shoot the ball in Jalen Wilson (https://247sports.com/college/michigan/Season/2019-Basketball/Commits/). We need to get more shooting into this program, especially if the 3-pt line is really going to be moved to international distance.

[CameronBornAndBred]

At age 66, maybe he wants to coach at the highest level. Or, y'know, whatever it is that the Cavs are.

Yep. This article gives plenty of reasons that the move makes sense for him. Plus, really good coaches don't turn away from a challenge.

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/26737028/michigan-beilein-coach-cavaliers

[dudog84]

It's all about the Benjamins. He's 66, this is his retirement plan.

[Steven43]

Well, that’s one fewer team Duke has to worry about next year (and probably for years to come). Beilein is what set that program apart.

[DarkstarWahoo]

At age 66, maybe he wants to coach at the highest level. Or, y'know, whatever it is that the Cavs are.

Yeah, I didn't realize he was that old (and he's had health issues as well). Might just be about one last challenge and payday. He was at $2.45 million a year at Michigan, which I'd say made him pretty drastically underpaid.

[brevity]

If you told me that a head coach of a Power 5 school in the state of Michigan would suddenly leave college basketball behind today to pursue NBA riches, and then asked me to identify him, I would have guessed incorrectly.

[weezie]

Hahahahaha oh man

- Chillin

My exact same reaction.

[duke79]

Yep. This article gives plenty of reasons that the move makes sense for him. Plus, really good coaches don't turn away from a challenge.

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/26737028/michigan-beilein-coach-cavaliers

I haven't seen any reported salary numbers, but I assume that Cleveland is paying him BOATLOADS of money (and I hope it is fully guaranteed for the entire five years). I have no clue if money alone is enough to make him jump ship from college to the pros, but, maybe, he is tired of the recruiting hassles, OAD's, NCAA regs, and other negatives of college coaching. He may also want the challenge of coaching at the highest levels of the game. Who really know?

[Steven43]

Yeah, I didn't realize he was that old (and he's had health issues as well). Might just be about one last challenge and payday. He was at $2.45 million a year at Michigan, which I'd say made him pretty drastically underpaid.
Well, when John Calipari — to use one example — makes $9.2 million per year then, yes, Beilein is dramatically underpaid. I believe he is a better coach than Calipari, so to make less than 1/4 of what he makes is an insult.

[Steven43]

It's all about the Benjamins. He's 66, this is his retirement plan.

100% right. At least I think so.

[Acymetric]

If you told me that a head coach of a Power 5 school in the state of Michigan would suddenly leave college basketball behind today to pursue NBA riches, and then asked me to identify him, I would have guessed incorrectly.

Really? I would have thought Beilein much more likely to leave than Izzo.

[PackMan97]

Yep. This article gives plenty of reasons that the move makes sense for him. Plus, really good coaches don't turn away from a challenge.

Unlike some coaches, I suppose Beilein wasn't willing to settle on being just a great COLLEGE coach.

;)

[UrinalCake]

Brad Stevens notwithstanding, the track record for college coaches who try to make the jump to the pros is not great. Especially when they take over franchises that are already in the dumpster. So I’m skeptical that he’ll be able to make much noise at the next level, but I guess the Cavs are willing to take the risk.

Also am I remembering correctly that Beilein only coaches the team’s offense, and one of his assistants serves like a defensive coordinator who handles that side of the ball? How is that going to work? (I know, cue the jokes about how they don’t play defense in the NBA...)

[Troublemaker]

Well, that’s one fewer team Duke has to worry about next year (and probably for years to come). Beilein is what set that program apart.

Well, I didn't really spend much time worrying about Michigan before this departure. For the most part, we're not recruiting rivals, although there are exceptions like Mitch McGary. And obviously they're not a conference rival. He's a great coach, but college basketball doesn't work that way where Duke benefits just because he left.

[scottdude8]

Wow... just wow. This will have major implications across college hoops with coaches changing jobs, unless Michigan promotes one of his assistants. We need Scott to weigh in on this.

Michigan was set to be a preseason top 10 team. He's leaving a really great situation for a really bad one. Coaching in the NBA is nothing like coaching in college. I wish him well, but find this move very strange (though I imagine he is getting a nice raise).


Quick, somebody check and see if scottdude8 is still conscious...

:eek:

Ok, so... I woke up to this and it felt like getting punched in the gut at a Michigan fan. I'm obviously not quite as wired in to Michigan's program as I am Duke's, but from the various sources/websites I read there was no discussion that this was even a possibility until this morning. The local Michigan papers hadn't even mentioned anything about Beilein even considering NBA jobs this offseason. My favorite Michigan fansite, mgoblog.com, had made zero mention of this as well and the purveyors of that site, who are generally well connected to the Michigan community, seem legitimately shocked from their reaction (https://mgoblog.com/content/exit-john-beilein-seriously).

Depending on how much interest in this there is I may put something more detailed together for the front page once I get my bearings (this was NOT how I wanted to write my first article here with a Michigan angle, haha). But for now, I'll state the obvious: this changes not just the B1G landscape, but the national landscape for the foreseeable future. Beilein had built Michigan into a perennial Top 25 team, and things were looking very much like he was close to turning them into a perennial Top 10/National Title contender. Obviously now there will be a major drop off.

Now, there are an interesting caveat here. As has been mentioned here, the hire of assistant coach Luke Yaklich is what turned Michigan into a defensive powerhouse: Beilein literally called him the Wolverines' "defensive coordinator" and turned over all responsibility for that side of the ball to him. I've been shocked that his name didn't come up in more head coaching searches the last few years, which led me to wonder if he had some sort of non-explicit "coach in waiting" type deal arranged. Now, there's reporting (https://www.freep.com/story/sports/college/university-michigan/wolverines/2019/05/13/michigan-john-beilein-leaving-coach-cleveland-cavaliers/1186909001/) that after he interviewed with the Pistons last year, Michigan's AD knew Beilein had an interest in trying things in the NBA before he retired, and had a "short list of candidates" in mind were Beilein to get an offer. Obviously there will be a segment of the fan base that wants to go after a big name, but I personally would hope that Michigan quickly moves to name Yaklich the head coach. That's not only the only way to maintain some of the stability and forward momentum that the program has, but also probably the only way to stem the tide of potential transfers, recruits de-committing, etc.

What does this mean for next year? Well now it would shock me if Iggy returns, unless he gets some really bad reviews at the combine. There's also always the possibility of transfers. I highly doubt the upperclassmen (Simpson, Teske, Livers) are going anywhere, but some of the highly recruited rising sophomore class could consider it. Two key cogs in that group (David DeJulius and Brandon Johns) are Michigan kids, so I'd consider them less likely to leave. However, a guy like Colin Castleton, who showed great promise at the end of the year and was recruited primarily to be a "Beilein-style" center (i.e. mobile, can shoot from the perimeter, etc.), might want to see whether the new coach plans on utilizing him in the same way. The two incoming four star wings, Jalen Wilson and Cole Bajema, obviously now become question marks. Finally, the biggest story no one is talking about: signs were pointing strongly at Mo Wagner's little bro Franz making a late decision to come to play in the US at Michigan, and all reports are he has NBA potential like his bro (although he's quite young and would need some time to develop). Without the personal connection with Beilein that the family has, that's now a longshot, making it more likely Franz stays overseas to develop.

The upperclassmen in Ann Arbor are enough to keep Michigan as a Top 25 team next year. But barring some miraculous developments, I think this will be the straw that broke the camels back and finally removes them in my mind from Top 10/title contender status. The only thing I think that could potentially prevent that, or minimize the impact, would be quickly naming Yaklich the coach to retain some continuity. If that's the case, look for Michigan to fully embrace it's defensive roots and become Virginia north... which, in the long run, wouldn't be the worst thing in the world. It just sucks that now we're potentially going to squander the opportunity that 2019-2020 presented with fantastic senior leaders at both PG and C, which I was obviously psyched for.

Keep me in your thoughts today guys... this is gonna be a long day to be a Wolverine, hahaha.

[budwom]

Interesting move, really good coach, but will he change the ponderous tempo he likes to play?

[Steven43]

Well, I didn't really spend much time worrying about Michigan before this departure. For the most part, we're not recruiting rivals, although there are exceptions like Mitch McGary. And obviously they're not a conference rival. He's a great coach, but college basketball doesn't work that way where Duke benefits just because he left.

Disagree. I think Michigan would be a significant challenge to Duke in the NCAA tournament just about any year he is their coach.

[miramar]

I expect that he'll be better than David Blatt.

He might even be better than Leonard Hamilton.

Still strange, though.

[sagegrouse]

I expect that he'll be better than David Blatt.

He might even be better than Leonard Hamilton.

Still strange, though.

Ye p strange, but consider that (per ESPN) Beilein has never been an assistant and has been the head coach in high school, junior college, Division III, II and I. I believe the NBA completes the journey, unless he has ambitions on being coach of Team USA.

[Troublemaker]

Disagree. I think Michigan would be a significant challenge to Duke in the NCAA tournament just about any year he is their coach.

You might as well worry about whether the sun comes up. In his 18 years at power conference schools (WVU and Michigan), Duke has played Beilein in the NCAAT once, in 2011. (Remember, when Duke played WVU in 2008 and 2010, it was with Huggins as coach).

[BD80]

At age 66, maybe he wants to coach at the highest level. ...

But since the Duke job is not available ...

[hallcity]

So, who does Michigan hire?

[scottdude8]

So, who does Michigan hire?

I'll be writing up something detailed about this and the fallout, hopefully for posting at some point today. There will be a contingent of Michigan fans who want a big name. Chris Beard is a name that is coming up but obviously he just signed a major extension at Texas Tech. Some want Michigan to try offering a blank check to Jay Wright, Tony Bennett, Billy Donovan or Brad Stevens. All of those are obviously highly unlikely.

That's why I think (and this is actually my major preference) that Michigan will end up promoting assistant Luke Yaklich, the man fully responsible for Michigan's transformation into a defensive powerhouse. He's an up and comer that honestly I've been shocked hasn't gotten any press for open jobs the past year, which makes me think that maybe he's been quietly been given a "coach in waiting" type promise. If Michigan goes with him it won't be a splashy hire by any means, but it will help maintain some continuity and some of the momentum from the past years. It's also been reported that Yaklich is a recruiting beast, so that could help maintain the Wolverines' standing in current recruiting races and minimize attrition. If things go that way, Michigan will probably end up embracing an identity as "Virginia north" and going full bore defensively, which honestly I wouldn't be that upset about at all.

[Billy Dat]

I was shocked to see this headline. I think Beilein is a GREAT coach but I don't see his personality translating to the NBA. He is immediately one of the oldest coaches in the NBA, less than 70-year-old-Pop and right around Alvin Gentry, Mike D'Antoni and Dwayne Casey. It's a pretty young group of coaches right now. But, the dude has succeeded everywhere so I'd never bet against him. It's proof that the itch to be in the NBA is not just with players.

[UrinalCake]

Duke has played Beilein in the NCAAT once, in 2011.

Posting this video just because...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yDBB_gMNDUU

[Steven43]

You might as well worry about whether the sun comes up. In his 18 years at power conference schools (WVU and Michigan), Duke has played Beilein in the NCAAT once, in 2011. (Remember, when Duke played WVU in 2008 and 2010, it was with Huggins as coach).

Come on, comparing Duke losing to a Beilein-coached Michigan team in the NCAA tournament to the sun rising is just, well, I'm not even going to say it out of respect for you. All it would have taken is one big loss to Michigan in the NCAA tournament -- say, in the Final Eight, Final Four or maybe even the Final -- to have proven me right to have been worried about Beilein. And it could have happened this upcoming season. It certainly wouldn't have been all that farfetched to have happened within the next several years. I'm glad I don't have to worry about it now. They won't find a coach as good as him.

[Blue KevIL]

I addition to being a longtime fan of Duke basketball, I am also a fan of my alma mater the University of Illinois.

This reminds me of Lon Kruger leaving the Fighting Illini to coach the Atlanta Hawks around 2000.
That did not make sense then and John Beilein leaving Michigan does not make sense now.

Illinois did wind up better off with Bill Self -- for too short a period of time.
And... he might still be in Champaign if Ol' Roy didn't have to leave Lawrence to clean up the mess left behind by Matt Doherty.

But I digress...

[Indoor66]

I'll be writing up something detailed about this and the fallout, hopefully for posting at some point today. There will be a contingent of Michigan fans who want a big name. Chris Beard is a name that is coming up but obviously he just signed a major extension at Texas Tech. Some want Michigan to try offering a blank check to Jay Wright, Tony Bennett, Billy Donovan or Brad Stevens. All of those are obviously highly unlikely.

That's why I think (and this is actually my major preference) that Michigan will end up promoting assistant Luke Yaklich, the man fully responsible for Michigan's transformation into a defensive powerhouse. He's an up and comer that honestly I've been shocked hasn't gotten any press for open jobs the past year, which makes me think that maybe he's been quietly been given a "coach in waiting" type promise. If Michigan goes with him it won't be a splashy hire by any means, but it will help maintain some continuity and some of the momentum from the past years. It's also been reported that Yaklich is a recruiting beast, so that could help maintain the Wolverines' standing in current recruiting races and minimize attrition. If things go that way, Michigan will probably end up embracing an identity as "Virginia north" and going full bore defensively, which honestly I wouldn't be that upset about at all.

After your two posts, how long will something detailed be?

[Steven43]

After your two posts, how long will something detailed be?

Be nice.

[CameronBornAndBred]

After your two posts, how long will something detailed be?

"It was the best of times, it was the worst of times..."

[hallcity]

I'll be writing up something detailed about this and the fallout, hopefully for posting at some point today. There will be a contingent of Michigan fans who want a big name. Chris Beard is a name that is coming up but obviously he just signed a major extension at Texas Tech. Some want Michigan to try offering a blank check to Jay Wright, Tony Bennett, Billy Donovan or Brad Stevens. All of those are obviously highly unlikely.

That's why I think (and this is actually my major preference) that Michigan will end up promoting assistant Luke Yaklich, the man fully responsible for Michigan's transformation into a defensive powerhouse. He's an up and comer that honestly I've been shocked hasn't gotten any press for open jobs the past year, which makes me think that maybe he's been quietly been given a "coach in waiting" type promise. If Michigan goes with him it won't be a splashy hire by any means, but it will help maintain some continuity and some of the momentum from the past years. It's also been reported that Yaklich is a recruiting beast, so that could help maintain the Wolverines' standing in current recruiting races and minimize attrition. If things go that way, Michigan will probably end up embracing an identity as "Virginia north" and going full bore defensively, which honestly I wouldn't be that upset about at all.

If they weren't willing to pay Beilein all that much, it's hard to see them opening their wallet far, far wider to hire Wright, Bennett, Donovan or Stevens so either an assistant or some up and comer who will be thrilled to make around $2 million a year. It's not the best time for them to be hiring.

[English]

If they weren't willing to pay Beilein all that much, it's hard to see them opening their wallet far, far wider to hire Wright, Bennett, Donovan or Stevens so either an assistant or some up and comer who will be thrilled to make around $2 million a year. It's not the best time for them to be hiring.

If the coaching search at UCLA is any indication, shooting for the moon is often far more difficult and time consuming (and awful PR) than many in the fanbase, athletic department, and boosters club seem to think. Michigan may be an appealing job given some of the talent already in the fold, but the names you mention in the "splashy hire" list are pipe dreams for maybe all but 2-3 jobs. I agree, retaining an up-and-coming, hungry assistant with a reputation for recruiting is the smart move especially this late in the carousel.

Of course, Dickie V wants to mention a guy currently coaching in Greece is available. /s

ETA: How exactly does one pronounce Yaklich? Is that like "Yak-lick," Yak-litch," or the Eastern European "Yak-lits." My laziness on the internet is strong today.

[CrazyNotCrazie]

If the coaching search at UCLA is any indication, shooting for the moon is often far more difficult and time consuming (and awful PR) than many in the fanbase, athletic department, and boosters club seem to think. Michigan may be an appealing job given some of the talent already in the fold, but the names you mention in the "splashy hire" list are pipe dreams for maybe all but 2-3 jobs. I agree, retaining an up-and-coming, hungry assistant with a reputation for recruiting is the smart move especially this late in the carousel.

Of course, Dickie V wants to mention a guy currently coaching in Greece is available. /s

ETA: How exactly does one pronounce Yaklich? Is that like "Yak-lick," Yak-litch," or the Eastern European "Yak-lits." My laziness on the internet is strong today.

It is pronounced "Yock-litch" (unfortunately rhymes with "jock itch")

At this late date I agree that the options are somewhat limited, though this is a very big job. Given the amount of money Michigan throws at its football program, one would think they have the resources to pay big for basketball, but then again, I guess Michigan truly is a football school. And I don't see one of the truly top tier guys (Bennett, Wright, etc.) leaving for this, particularly not at this stage of the game.

[scottdude8]

After your two posts, how long will something detailed be?


Be nice.


"It was the best of times, it was the worst of times..."

Touche, and no offense taken! I tend to be verbose when I'm passionate about something, be it work or basketball, haha. Why do you think I got back into writing articles in the first place? 1000 word missives are more appropriate in an article than in a single post, haha.

Also, for those talking about Beilein's salary: my impression is that that wasn't a major factor in his decision. While his salary wasn't massive, the Michigan athletic department is loaded, and if Beilein asked for more money to stay I have very little doubt he would've gotten it. I don't think Beilein's final salary is necessarily indicative of how deep the program is willing to go into the coffers for a new coach.

[dukebluesincebirth]

Juwan Howard being mentioned. Ugh.

[scottdude8]

Juwan Howard being mentioned. Ugh.

Honestly everywhere I read that I interpret it as, "Hey, if we're putting together a list of potential coaches, shouldn't we include an ex-player?" I'd be flabbergasted if it's a real possibility.

[JasonEvans]

Juwan Howard being mentioned. Ugh.

He has been a NBA assistant for like 5 or 6 years. Not like he has no experience. He's more qualified than Penny Hardaway.

[Wahoo2000]

He has been a NBA assistant for like 5 or 6 years. Not like he has no experience. He's more qualified than Penny Hardaway.

Yeah - Maybe they're looking at the success of Memphis on the recruiting trail and thinking Howard could be a blend of the name/recruiting that Penny offers with NBA coaching experience.

Personally, I think they'd be way better off with promoting from within, but I can't deny the idea of bringing in Howard is intriguing. Definitely a high risk high reward proposition.

[scottdude8]

FWIW, my go to Michigan fan site has put their "list" up. Chris Collins is on (https://mgoblog.com/content/obligatory-list-potential-beilein-replacements)it, and they're surprisingly not at all into the possibility.

I hadn't even thought of Collins but that would be an intriguing choice, and a definite upward step for him if he was tired of trying to build a program from scratch at Northwestern. I'd rather have him than any of the non big name guys that are listed.

The article I linked to also makes a critical point, which is the timing of this is HORRIBLE for Michigan. The "coaching carousel" had almost come to a complete stop. All of the desirable names have already been claimed. Had this happened a month or two ago, maybe Michigan makes a play for Buzz Williams or a more serious play for Chris Beard. Now that's expensive, at the very least.

Right now, if I were a betting man I'd put my money on Yaklich, with Donovan being the most realistic "big name" guy, and Collins an interesting dark horse that I'd be happy with, even if the general Michigan fanbase might not be.

[CrazyNotCrazie]

He has been a NBA assistant for like 5 or 6 years. Not like he has no experience. He's more qualified than Penny Hardaway.

Agree that he has more coaching experience but Penny had been coaching AAU and HS in Memphis for a few years, so had incredibly deep recruiting ties to the area, which is a huge part of the job. Though given that Howard does have actual coaching experience and deep ties to the program, if they could bring him in and get all of the assistants to stick around, it could work - and given the late date at which all of this is happening, I am guessing that for the assistants, the best case scenario (other than one of them being promoted to head coach) is that they get retained, because they are unlikely to find another job for next year, particularly not one as high profile as Michigan.

[sagegrouse]

Agree that he has more coaching experience but Penny had been coaching AAU and HS in Memphis for a few years, so had incredibly deep recruiting ties to the area, which is a huge part of the job. Though given that Howard does have actual coaching experience and deep ties to the program, if they could bring him in and get all of the assistants to stick around, it could work - and given the late date at which all of this is happening, I am guessing that for the assistants, the best case scenario (other than one of them being promoted to head coach) is that they get retained, because they are unlikely to find another job for next year, particularly not one as high profile as Michigan.

I am, not surprisingly, somewhat reflective on Michigan's search for a new coach. However controversial it may become, it will be one percent of the intense public scrutiny of the search to replace Coach K -- or, what is basically the same thing, the controversy surrounding a successor produced with or without a public search. I mean, front page stories on the NY Times, mentions in presidential briefings, reference on every single sports broadcast, Etna-sized eruptions on sports radio, etc....

I am not meaning to put Duke far, far ahead of Kentucky, UNC, Kansas or Michigan -- it's that K is the most famous basketball coach on the planet and has been at Duke 40 or so years.

[weezie]

Juwan Howard being mentioned. Ugh.

sparty will think Christmas has come early.

Although of that crew, Howard seemed to eventually show a bit of maturity and as pointed out above, journeyman respect in the NBA.

[Rich]

Given the amount of money Michigan throws at its football program, one would think they have the resources to pay big for basketball, but then again, I guess Michigan truly is a football school.

My father, who went to Michigan, would say it's not much of that either until they can beat Ohio State, even just once in awhile. :rolleyes:

[duke96]

He was at $2.45 million a year at Michigan


Well, when John Calipari — to use one example — makes $9.2 million per year then, yes, Beilein is dramatically underpaid. I believe he is a better coach than Calipari, so to make less than 1/4 of what he makes is an insult.

...not a math major I imagine!

[Steven43]

...not a math major I imagine!

Yeah, I misread it as Beilein making $2.25 million per year. Careless.

[Steven43]

...not a math major I imagine!

No, I’m not a math major. But thank you for asking and for pointing out my error! DBR posters can be so kind and thoughtful. 😃

[BD80]

... DBR posters can be so kind and thoughtful. 😃

but never sarcastic ...

[scottdude8]

Great article up on SI (https://www.si.com/college-basketball/2019/05/13/michigan-john-beilein-cavs-nba-ncaa) about Beilein leaving (FWIW written by a guy who formerly worked in local Michigan media, so knows the landscape pretty well). Some of the things that jumped out to me here have been hinted at in other things I've read about this surprising decision, which is namely that the rampant corruption in college basketball, combined with the uptick in players leaving for the NBA arguably before they're ready (and most certainly when they still had room to develop in college), might have worn Beilein down.

This is something that has frustrated Michigan fans for a while now. Beilein is a guy who rarely went after the 5-star, one-and-done type recruits. Instead, he went after guys who fit his style and were often diamonds in the rough (Beilein found Aubrey Dawkins before he blossomed at UCF, turned a fringe 3* in Muhammad Ali Abdur Rakhman into one of the best four year players in program history, and now a solid G-leaguer, and took a D3 transfer in Duncan Robinson and got him an NBA deal). Because of this strategy Beilein very clearly planned for his players to be around for 3-4 years. But he was a victim of his own success oftentimes, as guys who blossomed under his coaching like Trey Burke, Nik Stauskas, and D.J. Wilson (as examples) who came into school with minimal pro prospects very suddenly became first rounders. You obviously can't begrudge those guys for leaving when they had a near-guaranteed first round (or in the case of Burke and Stauskas, lottery) spot, but it made Beilein's job in developing a cohesive team much more difficult. It's possible that the head-scratching departure of Jordan Poole, and likely Iggy Brazdeikis, could have been the straw that broke the camel's back with regard to that frustration. (FWIW, meanwhile somehow Tom Izzo has a history of keeping guys in East Lansing longer than anticipated... heck, he got Miles Bridges to return for his sophomore year even after he was a surefire lottery pick, and Cassius Winston to stick around for four years, while Michigan kept losing lower-rated recruits and probable lower drafted players to the pros).

Take all that for what you will, but I have to imagine that had to play some factor in Beilein's decision. It's sad that we've come to a place in college sports where that happened.

[Steven43]

Great article up on SI (https://www.si.com/college-basketball/2019/05/13/michigan-john-beilein-cavs-nba-ncaa)turned a fringe 3* in Muhammad Ali Abdur Rakhman into one of the best four year players in program history

..somehow Tom Izzo has a history of keeping guys in East Lansing longer than anticipated.
Wait...this dude has three last names??

Izzo is the Roy Williams of the Midwest.

[BD80]

…

Izzo is the Roy Williams of the Midwest.

But he stores his extra time-outs in the UP, where no one ever looks and the locals are too polite to intrude, or even ask.

[scottdude8]

Wait...this dude has three last names??

Izzo is the Roy Williams of the Midwest.

Nah, Abdur-Rakhman is hyphenated as his last name, haha. We affectionately called him MAAR :)

[CameronBornAndBred]

Nah, Abdur-Rakhman is hyphenated as his last name, haha. We affectionately called him MAAR :)

That probably translates to something in Wookie.

[Steven43]

Nah, Abdur-Rakhman is hyphenated as his last name, haha. We affectionately called him MAAR :)

Thanks for clarifying, Scott. I was concerned.

[Steven43]

But he stores his extra time-outs in the UP, where no one ever looks and the locals are too polite to intrude, or even ask.

Stores them in the Upper Peninsula, huh? Well, at least he picked a beautiful wilderness area. Smart man.

[Hingeknocker]

Great article up on SI (https://www.si.com/college-basketball/2019/05/13/michigan-john-beilein-cavs-nba-ncaa) about Beilein leaving (FWIW written by a guy who formerly worked in local Michigan media, so knows the landscape pretty well). Some of the things that jumped out to me here have been hinted at in other things I've read about this surprising decision, which is namely that the rampant corruption in college basketball, combined with the uptick in players leaving for the NBA arguably before they're ready (and most certainly when they still had room to develop in college), might have worn Beilein down.

Take all that for what you will, but I have to imagine that had to play some factor in Beilein's decision. It's sad that we've come to a place in college sports where that happened.

If John Beilein were actually concerned about the rampant corruption in college sports, he never would have taken a job paying him $2M+ per year while the players get relative peanuts. I have no tears to shed for him.

I agree that college sports is in a sad state, but I think you're coming at it from the wrong direction.

[Wahoo2000]

If John Beilein were actually concerned about the rampant corruption in college sports, he never would have taken a job paying him $2M+ per year while the players get relative peanuts. I have no tears to shed for him.

I agree that college sports is in a sad state, but I think you're coming at it from the wrong direction.

Or maybe he thinks the players should be true student athletes just like in baseball, lacrosse, field hockey, etc? It's like we've decided that revenue generation is the sole factor in determining who "deserves" money (which many subscribe to, I understand - but not everyone is on board with the theory of "he who drives the revenue gets the biggest chunk of the revenue).

[Steven43]

Or maybe he thinks the players should be true student athletes just like in baseball, lacrosse, field hockey, etc? It's like we've decided that revenue generation is the sole factor in determining who "deserves" money (which many subscribe to, I understand - but not everyone is on board with the theory of "he who drives the revenue gets the biggest chunk of the revenue).

Wait...why are we taking about revenue and who should or should not get it? Has the Beilein discussion shifted to the topic of college athletes getting paid (or not)?

[Hingeknocker]

Or maybe he thinks the players should be true student athletes just like in baseball, lacrosse, field hockey, etc? It's like we've decided that revenue generation is the sole factor in determining who "deserves" money (which many subscribe to, I understand - but not everyone is on board with the theory of "he who drives the revenue gets the biggest chunk of the revenue).

Then I'm sure Beilein would have had no problem getting the same salary as the field hockey coach at Michigan? I looked it up, and from Sept. of 2018, that coach was paid $171,500.

[Wahoo2000]

Then I'm sure Beilein would have had no problem getting the same salary as the field hockey coach at Michigan? I looked it up, and from Sept. of 2018, that coach was paid $171,500.

When I said that all the college athletes should be compensated the same (just with tuition and other benefits that fall within the rules), I didn't mean that would apply to the coaches. Players are students, coaches are employees. Apples to Oranges (until some court rules that the athletes are employees and all appeals against that ruling are exhausted).

And I'm not sure Beilein is against paying athletes, but I'm pretty sure he's against breaking the rules. I think to him, "dirty" means so many programs playing outside the rules. As others have stated, I'm sure he's also frustrated at kids chasing the NBA cash when they're clearly not ready (like a couple of his kids this year).

[Hingeknocker]

When I said that all the college athletes should be compensated the same (just with tuition and other benefits that fall within the rules), I didn't mean that would apply to the coaches. Players are students, coaches are employees. Apples to Oranges (until some court rules that the athletes are employees and all appeals against that ruling are exhausted).

And I'm not sure Beilein is against paying athletes, but I'm pretty sure he's against breaking the rules. I think to him, "dirty" means so many programs playing outside the rules. As others have stated, I'm sure he's also frustrated at kids chasing the NBA cash when they're clearly not ready (like a couple of his kids this year).

If there's anything I've learned from DBR, it's that this particular discussion is basically impossible to have. But the credulous article from SI was so absurd, and Beilein's supposed sympathetic reasons for wanting out of the college game are so preposterous, that I had to comment.

What I fail to understand about your point is: why are market forces allowed to dictate different salaries for different sports' coaches, but we better never, ever, ever, ever let market forces dictate what the players get?

All of the "dirtiness" that Beilein is presumably upset about is totally traced back to the amateurism rules of the NCAA. All of it. It doesn't have to be this way, but the NCAA makes it very clear they are choosing to enforce those rules now and into the future. Beilein chose to be a part of it the day he took a D-1 coaching job in 1992. Nothing has changed since then. This is why I have no sympathy for him.

[CrazyNotCrazie]

So....

Any updates on this search? I know it has only been a few days but I assume they want to move very quickly given the timing.

[scottdude8]

Man, a lot of you took my post and ran with it in all sorts of unintended directions! To be clear: I was asserting NOTHING about my, or Beilein’s, opinion on the pay players debate, or the “student athlete” debate. All I was saying is that reports are that Beilein was starting to get a bit frustrated by unexpected early departures and how it influenced his ability to craft a team over the course of years, not months. Not saying that’s right or wrong! But in the NBA he knows he can think slightly more long term than you can in the modern college game.

[sagegrouse]

If there's anything I've learned from DBR, it's that this particular discussion is basically impossible to have. But the credulous article from SI was so absurd, and Beilein's supposed sympathetic reasons for wanting out of the college game are so preposterous, that I had to comment.

What I fail to understand about your point is: why are market forces allowed to dictate different salaries for different sports' coaches, but we better never, ever, ever, ever let market forces dictate what the players get?

All of the "dirtiness" that Beilein is presumably upset about is totally traced back to the amateurism rules of the NCAA. All of it. It doesn't have to be this way, but the NCAA makes it very clear they are choosing to enforce those rules now and into the future. Beilein chose to be a part of it the day he took a D-1 coaching job in 1992. Nothing has changed since then. This is why I have no sympathy for him.

Here's the deal, athletes. Some of you get a full ride academically plus other perks and tons of responsibilities; some of you get a partial ride, or none at all. Basketball players seem to have the best deal of all in terms of some amount of stipend and the ability to ensure the future (at the college's expense). That is college sports in America. If you don't like this model, turn pro or don't play.

The current model is tattering around the edges due to sale of images, endorsements, etc. I expect it will go stagger on for quite a few years or decades with relatively minor variations.

Then there is the model that says that players should be paid, and universities should be allowed to bid for players beyond what is currently legit in the NCAA. That's not the NCAA. The players can be paid any amount, just not by members of the NCAA. The NCAA is a voluntary association whereby the members agree to certain rules (actually, a ton of rules). Players can go out on the pro market and sign for anything they want; they just can't play college sports.

Sage is perfectly comfortable with the existing model, although it is clearly creaky and requires constant vigilance to stamp out side payments.

Economists have come here and argued that the absence of a free and open market for player compensation is "inefficient." All parties, measured as a whole, will be better off with a free and open market where Texas and Ohio State and Alabama (and maybe even Duke) can dig deep to get the best players. My problem with that is that the "partial-equilibrium" solution -- pay the players what they are worth -- destroys the entire system of college athletics, which is based on fair and relatively equal competition among a hundred or more schools. That's the "general equilibrium" nature of college sports -- you can't have meaningful competition if a few rich schools grab all the best players. You have to look at the entire field of college sports under different sets of rules about compensation of players.

In fact, doesn't every professional league in the US of A have salary caps to limit the ability of the richest teams to buy up the talent?

I like our model, but then I'm an old fogy who remembers when Doak Walker won the Heisman and Frank Leahy of Notre Dame got fired after an undefeated season with a Heisman trophy winner.

Anyway IMHO (where John Heisman grabbed the H a century ago), you have to merge a partial equilibrium discussion (how players get compensated) with a general equilibrium understanding of what college sports looks like.

[PackMan97]

My problem with that is that the "partial-equilibrium" solution -- pay the players what they are worth -- destroys the entire system of college athletics, which is based on fair and relatively equal competition among a hundred or more schools. That's the "general equilibrium" nature of college sports -- you can't have meaningful competition if a few rich schools grab all the best players. You have to look at the entire field of college sports under different sets of rules about compensation of players.


Have you not been paying attention to the cheating UNC was able to get away with? 18+ years of no courses for their star athletes? Players being given late model rentals car to drive around in? Tutors writing papers and paying parking tickets? Sure, their FB team missed a bowl game and was down a handful of scholarships but suffered no real harm. Their basketball program skated completely. They had an ethics professor running the scam for the women's basketball program. They had baseball players needed straight A's in summer school able to get all the grades needed to be eligible while playing summer league ball.

I do not believe the current model is based on "fair and relatively equal" competition.

I can guarantee you, NC State is going to get hit far worse for Dennis Smith than UNC was for thousands of athletes taking part in institutionally led cheating.

[Steven43]

Have you not been paying attention to the cheating UNC was able to get away with? 18+ years of no courses for their star athletes? Players being given late model rentals car to drive around in? Tutors writing papers and paying parking tickets? Sure, their FB team missed a bowl game and was down a handful of scholarships but suffered no real harm. Their basketball program skated completely. They had an ethics professor running the scam for the women's basketball program. They had baseball players needed straight A's in summer school able to get all the grades needed to be eligible while playing summer league ball.

I do not believe the current model is based on "fair and relatively equal" competition.

I can guarantee you, NC State is going to get hit far worse for Dennis Smith than UNC was for thousands of athletes taking part in institutionally led cheating.
Everything you wrote in this post is separate from the issue of whether or not to pay student athletes.

[tommy]

So...

Any updates on this search? I know it has only been a few days but I assume they want to move very quickly given the timing.

Not quick enough. Their top recruit, top-50 Jalen Wilson, decommitted today.

[BD80]

Dawkins to UM would be amusing. I can see the fanbase thinking: "Didn't he already coach here?"

[DUKIE V(A)]

Dawkins to UM would be amusing. I can see the fanbase thinking: "Didn't he already coach here?"

If this were to happen, could Papa convince Aubrey to forego the NBA draft for a second stint at Michigan as a graduate transfer? My guess is not likely but interesting to think about.

Did not see Beilein to the NBA coming. He is an outstanding coach, and I wish him well in Cleveland.

[scottdude8]

FWIW, from what I can tell the Michigan fanbase is quite tepid about the possibility of Dawkins, considering his excessively average resume at Stanford. That said, Beilein leaving late in the game means Michigan doesn't have the typical top-tier "coaching carousel" candidates to choose from.

The possibility of Juwan Howard is picking up a lot of steam. I think many Michigan fans would rather take a chance on him and the combo of name-recognition and connection to the university than reach for a candidate that wouldn't even be on the radar had this search happened months ago. I'd personally rather role the dice on Yaklich, especially since Texas is apparently trying to poach him already (https://www.freep.com/story/sports/college/university-michigan/wolverines/2019/05/16/michigan-basketball-luke-yaklich-texas-shaka-smart/3699081002/). The best case scenario would be we quickly hire Howard, give Yaklich a big raise to stay on, and that allow the Wolverine's to maintain some form of continuity and hopefully get Jalen Wilson back in the fold. But whatever direction we go in, I think the earlier this is resolved the better for the Michigan program.

It just kills me that there's such a strong possibility that we're going to squander a team with great senior leaders at PG and C given this turnover. I'm hoping I'm wrong, but my expectations plummeting.

[Steven43]

It just kills me that there's such a strong possibility that we're going to squander a team with great senior leaders at PG and C given this turnover. I'm hoping I'm wrong, but my expectations are plummeting.
I’m hoping you’re right!

[scottdude8]

For those still interested, it's looking like all the tea-leaves are now pointing toward Juwan Howard to get the Michigan job. Providence's Ed Cooley interviewed for the job yesterday but turned the interest into a new multi-year deal to stay home. Howard is interviewing today, and there's speculation that a decision could come this week... that would leave only Howard and the assistants on staff who have been interviewed as viable candidates. There has been speculation that hiring Howard, who hasn't been a head coach before and thus wouldn't have his own staff he might want to bring along, would allow Michigan to retain some of it's current assistants, which would be huge (especially if that includes defensive wizard Yaklich). If that pans out, Michigan would be right back in the mix for Jalen Wilson (and, for what its worth, fellow Top 100 commit Cole Bajema hasn't decommitted yet), because Wilson has said he'd prefer some "continuity" at Michigan were he to seriously consider recommitting.

[Steven43]

I just heard Howard to Michigan is a done deal.

[jimsumner]

North Carolina is trying to get involved with Jalen Wilson.

FWIW.

[BD80]

I just heard Howard to Michigan is a done deal.

It will be interesting to hear Jalen Rose comment on Howard, now and in the future. Will he be a homer, or will he bend over backwards (like some Duke alum are known to do) to appear unbiased.

[flyingdutchdevil]

It will be interesting to hear Jalen Rose comment on Howard, now and in the future. Will he be a homer, or will he bend over backwards (like some Duke alum are known to do) to appear unbiased.

Homer. Big, big time homer. See this: http://www.espn.com/video/clip/_/id/26767804

[HereBeforeCoachK]

It will be interesting to hear Jalen Rose comment on Howard, now and in the future. Will he be a homer, or will he bend over backwards (like some Duke alum are known to do) to appear unbiased.

Only Duke alums do that....for what I think are obvious reasons...

[Steven43]

Only Duke alums do that...for what I think are obvious reasons...

Yeah, and it annoys the living cr#p out of me.

[HereBeforeCoachK]

Yeah, and it annoys the living cr#p out of me.

AMEN, preach...and not only does it annoy me to no end, understanding why they do it annoys me even more....The Duke hate....which is really old. And it's not just your garden variety "Duke wins so they are hated" thing...there is a special absurd venom and nonsensical underpinning to Duke hate. I think K's tired of it too, if I had to guess.

[-jk]

C’mon - we’re also the most liked college hoops program.

I’ll hate the day we aren’t hated...

-jk

[MaxAMillion]

C’mon - we’re also the most liked college hoops program.

I’ll hate the day we aren’t hated...

-jk

Agreed...the day may come soon enough when Duke is ignored rather than hated. I will take hated any day. I don’t a lot of people who hate Duke football.

[dukebluesincebirth]

Juwan Howard

[Steven43]

Agreed...the day may come soon enough when Duke is ignored rather than hated. I will take hated any day. I don’t a lot of people who hate Duke football.

I don’t like the Duke hate. I never have and never will. It’s unjustified, irrational, and kind of just sick and twisted.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

I don’t like the Duke hate. I never have and never will. It’s unjustified, irrational, and kind of just sick and twisted.

As opposed to our rational, even-keeled hatred of baby blue.

[Steven43]

As opposed to our rational, even-keeled hatred of baby blue.

Oh geez, even THIS you question?

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Oh geez, even THIS you question?

I'm just saying. We don't have to like the hate, but we should probably recognize the irony.

[Steven43]

I'm just saying. We don't have to like the hate, but we should probably recognize the irony.

Hmm. Okay.

[Indoor66]

I'm just saying. We don't have to like the hate, but we should probably recognize the irony.

I can understand the strong dislike for a neighborhood rival; I don't understand that level of dislike for others.

[J4Kop99]

It will be interesting to hear Jalen Rose comment on Howard, now and in the future. Will he be a homer, or will he bend over backwards (like some Duke alum are known to do) to appear unbiased.

"It will be interesting to hear Jalen Rose" -- not a phrase I thought I'd ever come across... especially on a Duke forum.

[Steven43]

I can understand the strong dislike for a neighborhood rival; I don't understand that level of dislike for others.

THAT is the point I was trying to make. Thank you.

[Wahoo2000]

Howard is an interesting hire. In a perfect world for Michigan, he uses his NBA experience (both playing and coaching) and the cache of his name and being part of the Fab 5 to become a recruiting monster like Penny or Lorenzo Romar. If they can also retain Yaklich and Howard even has a *modicum* of skill with the Xs and Os and player development on the offensive end..... it's a MASSIVE home run.

On the other end, if Howard is a less than able recruiter, developer of talent, and Yaklich bolts? Yikes.

Time will tell the tale on this one. The likely final answer is of course somewhere between those two scenarios, but I actually like the hire - certainly given their other options (Yaklich notwithstanding).

[dudog84]

As opposed to our rational, even-keeled hatred of baby blue.

I disliked uNC in a worthy rival sort of way. Maybe it's less than some of you since I only spent 4 years in North Carolina. But after the revelations, I despise them. The cheating was bad enough, but it was the institutional machinations to avoid any semblance of responsibility or contrition that removed any remaining leanings toward rationality.

[PackMan97]

As opposed to our rational, even-keeled hatred of baby blue.

Hating the Cheaters is perfectly logical. They are what is wrong with sports, the NCAA and society as a whole all rolled into one nice tidy package.

What is irrational is those who like Carolina Blue. I've never understood it. Never will.

[BD80]

As opposed to our rational, even-keeled hatred of baby blue.

AFAM = justified hatred. They cheated and got caught, but still got away with it.

[TruBlu]

Hating the Cheaters is perfectly logical. They are what is wrong with sports, the NCAA and society as a whole all rolled into one nice tidy package.

What is irrational is those who like Carolina Blue. I've never understood it. Never will.

I can understand (a little) how someone could have pulled for them back when unc had convinced folks that the “carolina way” was pure as the driven snow, and was the right way to run a collegiate athletic program. Now that their rampant cheating and lying has been exposed, I don’t understand how even unc graduates can pull for their athletic teams.

They are eating yellow snow.

[CameronBornAndBred]

Kudos to Beilein for hiring Cal coach Lindsay Gottlieb to his staff.

That hire will create another coaching opportunity for one of the women's bigger programs.

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/26956684/cavaliers-hire-cal-women-coach-gottlieb-staff

[CrazyNotCrazie]

Kudos to Beilein for hiring Cal coach Lindsay Gottlieb to his staff.

That hire will create another coaching opportunity for one of the women's bigger programs.

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/26956684/cavaliers-hire-cal-women-coach-gottlieb-staff

Thanks for sharing - interesting. It is great that Beilein is diversifying the coaching ranks with what seems like a qualified hire. Either NBA assistants make a lot more than I thought or she took a pretty big pay cut to get this opportunity as the article says she makes roughly $700k a year.

I will give her the benefit of the doubt and assume she is not related to Doug.

[BD80]

…

I will give her the benefit of the doubt and assume she is not related to Doug.

Well, the story does not quote her saying anything stupid, improving the odds the assumption is valid ...