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proelitedota
04-15-2019, 05:53 PM
https://twitter.com/shamscharania/status/1117906906536792064?s=21

Wrap it up folks, it's over.

TKG
04-15-2019, 05:55 PM
Shocked!

Billy Dat
04-15-2019, 05:55 PM
Like a steam locomotive, rollin' down the track
He's gone, he's gone and nothin's gonna bring him back, he's gone

Devilwin
04-15-2019, 05:57 PM
Zion announced today he is entering draft.

Devilwin
04-15-2019, 05:59 PM
He's not ready..(chuckle )

kAzE
04-15-2019, 06:00 PM
RIP the dream

MCFinARL
04-15-2019, 06:01 PM
Well, that was a lot of fun. Thanks for the memories, Zion. Hope the future holds lots of good for you.

tommy
04-15-2019, 06:01 PM
Nuthin's gonna bring him back.

arnie
04-15-2019, 06:04 PM
RIP the dream

Has he hired an agent?😏

UrinalCake
04-15-2019, 06:11 PM
It was awesome that we got to watch him in a Duke uniform for a season, and that he’ll forever be connected to Duke. Such a unique kid and player. Hate that we missed those six games while he was hurt, that he only got to beat the CHeats once and that he didn’t get to play in the Final Four. But man, what an amazing ride for the big kid with an even bigger smile.

hudlow
04-15-2019, 06:15 PM
The world is his oyster...

Billy Dat
04-15-2019, 06:15 PM
Nuthin's gonna bring him back.

tommy!!!!!! Good to see your name, hope you've been well!

moonpie23
04-15-2019, 06:20 PM
Thanks, Big Z, for choosing the brotherhood........

gam7
04-15-2019, 06:26 PM
Like a steam locomotive, rollin' down the track
He's gone, he's gone and nothin's gonna bring him back, he's gone

Cannot spork you, but the gentlemen in my profile pic approve of your post.

GoDuke2015
04-15-2019, 06:27 PM
It was awesome that we got to watch him in a Duke uniform for a season, and that he’ll forever be connected to Duke. Such a unique kid and player. Hate that we missed those six games while he was hurt, that he only got to beat the CHeats once and that he didn’t get to play in the Final Four. But man, what an amazing ride for the big kid with an even bigger smile.

Great year! He represented the university well and will continue to do so in the NBA. Best of lucky, Zion! you'll be missed.

camion
04-15-2019, 06:51 PM
I'm speechless. This is the biggest surprise since Luke Walton leaving the Lakers. :eek:


Seriously though, I have only good things to say about Zion. He was a joy to watch on and off the court and I wish him the best going forward.

EKU1969
04-15-2019, 06:57 PM
Good luck, Zion! Thanks for the memories!

CrazyNotCrazie
04-15-2019, 06:58 PM
Best of luck to Zion. What a great representative of Duke. I had coffee today with a friend who is a huge Duke hater (he went to a small New England liberal arts college) and he told me how this was the first year he ever supported Duke, largely due to Zion. I have read about that a lot but it was amazing to hear it from a friend.

Zion was also kind enough to give Duke a lot of love in his instagram video.

Let the agent and shoe wars begin...

proelitedota
04-15-2019, 07:04 PM
Let the agent and shoe wars begin...

I am excited to see what kind of contract he is going to get.

NSDukeFan
04-15-2019, 07:12 PM
Is Zion just testing the waters to see where he stands? Maybe if he is a guaranteed all-star with a reasonable hall-of-fame chance he should go, or if he is told that he might not be all-NBA in the next three years, then he should stay?

BD80
04-15-2019, 07:20 PM
Unless he's in the top half of the first round, I think this is a mistake.

knicknut
04-15-2019, 07:21 PM
I heard on PTI that if the Knicks get #1 overall, he'd rather return than play for Dolan.

I think that episode aired exactly 14 days ago, but I could be mistaken.

Dukehky
04-15-2019, 07:50 PM
Nuthin's gonna bring him back.

Not sure anything other than the big fella will resemble a steam locomotive, rollin down the tracks.

richardjackson199
04-15-2019, 08:00 PM
Congrats Zion and thanks for everything! You could not have represented Duke, your family, and yourself better. All the best in the NBA and in life. You'll do well, and the amazing contract you're about to sign could not be more deserved. Stay hungry and humble. Brotherhood forever.

Furniture
04-15-2019, 08:17 PM
https://mobile.twitter.com/DukeMBB/status/1117930103059693569

JetpackJesus
04-15-2019, 08:36 PM
He can come back if he goes undrafted!

OZZIE4DUKE
04-15-2019, 08:57 PM
Best wishes Zion! You and the Brotherhood made this year's team so much fun to watch! And honestly, most of the fun was connected to what you did on the court, whether running on the break and finishing, slithering to the basket around traffic to finish, or starting the break with a pass. You did things we've never seen before, and you did something like that in almost every game. Thank you. LGD GTHc!http://www.crazietalk.net/ourhouse/images/smilies/devil9f.gif http://www.crazietalk.net/ourhouse/images/smilies/devil9f.gif

weezie
04-15-2019, 09:30 PM
Come back and see us some time Zion. Would love to give you one more Cameron roar.

Furniture
04-15-2019, 09:59 PM
I am excited to see what kind of contract he is going to get.


Leblon signed a shoe deal with Nike for $87 million, Durant signed with them for 60 million dollars. Zion may sign his deal before the draft. How much will he get? It’s going to be quite a bidding war...

proelitedota
04-15-2019, 10:04 PM
Leblon signed a shoe deal with Nike for $87 million, Durant signed with them for 60 million dollars. Zion may sign his deal before the draft. How much will he get? It’s going to be quite a bidding war...

Hmm, Zion is getting at least $120 million contract then based on inflation.

HereBeforeCoachK
04-15-2019, 10:15 PM
It was awesome that we got to watch him in a Duke uniform for a season, and that he’ll forever be connected to Duke. Such a unique kid and player. Hate that we missed those six games while he was hurt, that he only got to beat the CHeats once and that he didn’t get to play in the Final Four. But man, what an amazing ride for the big kid with an even bigger smile.

I know, these people saying "he's never coming back" are missing it....he'll always be part of Duke. I don't think I've ever heard any player love Duke more than Zion....Quinn Cook is up there.....and some others....but that number one in blue will be seen all over the place for many years.

Furniture
04-15-2019, 10:32 PM
I know, these people saying "he's never coming back" are missing it...he'll always be part of Duke. I don't think I've ever heard any player love Duke more than Zion...Quinn Cook is up there...and some others...but that number one in blue will be seen all over the place for many years.

I completely agree. He is so humble and so grateful for all things Duke especially for his time with K and his team mates. He mentions his mother and her influence on him a lot. She must be a special lady.

richardjackson199
04-15-2019, 10:48 PM
https://mobile.twitter.com/DukeMBB/status/1117930103059693569

Zion says whole-heartedly, "I just wanna say Thank you."

Duke and all fans says back to Zion whole-heartedly, Zion, we just wanna say Thank YOU!

Dukehk
04-16-2019, 02:00 AM
Needs to come back and develop his jump shot..

Who am I kidding! Congrats Zion and what an immense pleasure it has been watching him this year.

A big reason why this year was so fun and enjoyable.

duke96
04-16-2019, 06:04 AM
Not sure anything other than the big fella will resemble a steam locomotive, rollin down the tracks.

And he will steal (and block and dunk) the face right off your head ...

flyingdutchdevil
04-16-2019, 09:33 AM
Thanks for an awesome year. You are everything an OAD should be. So happy you came through our program.

jv001
04-16-2019, 09:43 AM
You are an amazing young man, both on the basketball court and off the court. You represented yourself, your family and Duke University in the highest manner. I will forever root for you in sport and in life. My prayers are for you to succeed in life and in the NBA. You have set the bar way high for the next player that wears the Duke
#1 uniform..

GoDuke!

SmartDevil
04-17-2019, 12:51 AM
In addition to his fantastic basketball skills, this young man has so much going for him as a person. I think he will be a wonderful role model and has the potential to make a significant impact on society over time. All our best to you, Zion!

Dr. Rosenrosen
05-08-2019, 12:10 PM
Nice article on Zion’s maturation through high school.

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/26406892/the-education-zion-williamson

budwom
05-08-2019, 12:32 PM
I feel compelled to acknowledge the front page link to Knicks liking Reddish (presumably with a very high draft pick). The Knicks are very skilled at being the Knicks.

sagegrouse
05-08-2019, 12:51 PM
Nice article on Zion’s maturation through high school.

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/26406892/the-education-zion-williamson

This is an amazing article, particularly the interview with the HS coach, who was also his creative writing teacher. Apparently Zion is a gifted poet.

Dr. Rosenrosen
05-08-2019, 01:14 PM
This is an amazing article, particularly the interview with the HS coach, who was also his creative writing teacher. Apparently Zion is a gifted poet.
Yes. I should have clarified that it’s focused on his maturation as a person as opposed to athleticism or basketball skills.

royalblue
05-08-2019, 01:34 PM
This is an amazing article, particularly the interview with the HS coach, who was also his creative writing teacher. Apparently Zion is a gifted poet.

Zion already being “poetry in motion” gives him a head start that is likely not needed

nmduke2001
05-08-2019, 01:37 PM
This is an amazing article, particularly the interview with the HS coach, who was also his creative writing teacher. Apparently Zion is a gifted poet.

Mina Kimes is a great journalist. I'm looking forward to reading it. She will be on the Dan Le Batard show in a while (delayed out here) to discuss the article. She is very knowledgeable and quite funny*.



*I enjoy the Dan Le Bartard show but I know a lot of people do not.

DukeFanSince1990
05-08-2019, 01:59 PM
Mina Kimes is a great journalist. I'm looking forward to reading it. She will be on the Dan Le Batard show in a while (delayed out here) to discuss the article. She is very knowledgeable and quite funny*.



*I enjoy the Dan Le Bartard show but I know a lot of people do not.

*They don't get the show.

Seriously though, it's a sports show that picks on sports shows. It's all meant to be tongue in cheek. It's good fun.

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
05-08-2019, 02:04 PM
Mina Kimes is a great journalist. I'm looking forward to reading it. She will be on the Dan Le Batard show in a while (delayed out here) to discuss the article. She is very knowledgeable and quite funny*.



*I enjoy the Dan Le Bartard show but I know a lot of people do not.

Count me in the "pro-LeBatard" group. I wouldn't try to talk anyone into liking him, but I enjoy it probably 80% of the time, which is better than almost all other shows currently running.

As long as we are on this little segue, I heard Dahntay Jones on his own show recently. Maybe on Fox Sports?

cato
05-08-2019, 06:39 PM
This is an amazing article, particularly the interview with the HS coach, who was also his creative writing teacher. Apparently Zion is a gifted poet.

I recall JJ being described the same way. It strikes me that Zion and JJ would play exceptionally well together. The baser part of me insists on saying it would be poetry in motion.

fuse
05-10-2019, 09:07 AM
https://twitter.com/theundefeated/status/1126826723151044609?s=21

A great six minute video on Zion in high school.
Includes some brief interview footage of a younger, shorter and less physically imposing Zion.

Well worth your time.

Duke79UNLV77
05-10-2019, 09:23 AM
*They don't get the show.

Seriously though, it's a sports show that picks on sports shows. It's all meant to be tongue in cheek. It's good fun.

I find the show patronizing of the dad, which feels uncomfortable to me. LeBetard has moments, but seems too pleased with himself, and Bomani Jones always makes me want to change the channel.

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
05-10-2019, 10:57 AM
I find the show patronizing of the dad, which feels uncomfortable to me. LeBetard has moments, but seems too pleased with himself, and Bomani Jones always makes me want to change the channel.

I disagree with each of your points. Granted, it is all a matter of taste. I enjoy his dad, and it feels to me like he is "in on the jokes." I sense LeBetard is self-deprecating as much as anything else, and part of his shtick is being mystified by their level of success. And I love Bomani. I listen to his podcast regularly.

Different strokes, I suppose.

AGDukesky
05-10-2019, 12:45 PM
Every time I see this thread title I want to post that picture of Lloyd from “Dumb and Dumber” seeing the “Man Walks on Moon” newspaper headline...

thedukelamere
05-10-2019, 01:23 PM
Every time I see this thread title I want to post that picture of Lloyd from “Dumb and Dumber” seeing the “Man Walks on Moon” newspaper headline...

I'm not savvy enough to edit a video to include the "Zion Declares for Draft!" headline, so you'll have to use your imagination :p

https://thumbs.gfycat.com/RichHonorableButterfly-size_restricted.gif

Furniture
05-13-2019, 08:58 PM
https://mobile.twitter.com/BarstoolBDevils/status/1128054556309565440

What a great kid....

Bluedog
05-13-2019, 09:42 PM
Nice little article talking about how much Zion enjoyed his time and Duke and delayed officially announcing for the NBA because he didn't want reality to set in.
https://amp.si.com/college-basketball/2019/05/13/zion-williamson-doesnt-want-leave-duke-nba-draft

"You get this college experience once," he says. "If you're in a situation like mine, where you're one and done, I'm just trying to make the most of what I got. I love Duke, and honestly, I don’t want to leave. If I didn’t have as much at stake, I probably would stay for another year. But I can't.

"Being at Duke was a dream come true for me. Everything about it"

BigZ
05-13-2019, 09:47 PM
Okay where do you want Zion to go ?

Steven43
05-13-2019, 10:17 PM
Nice little article talking about how much Zion enjoyed his time and Duke and delayed officially announcing for the NBA because he didn't want reality to set in.
https://amp.si.com/college-basketball/2019/05/13/zion-williamson-doesnt-want-leave-duke-nba-draft

"You get this college experience once," he says. "If you're in a situation like mine, where you're one and done, I'm just trying to make the most of what I got. I love Duke, and honestly, I don’t want to leave. If I didn’t have as much at stake, I probably would stay for another year. But I can't.

"Being at Duke was a dream come true for me. Everything about it"

How great is that? This young man is the BEST. I could not like or respect Zion Williamson any more than I already do. It’s not possible.

pfrduke
05-13-2019, 10:18 PM
Okay where do you want Zion to go ?

I’m rooting for Philly as a completely random and fascinating outcome. But really anyone but Phoenix and Cleveland

BD80
05-13-2019, 10:52 PM
Okay where do you want Zion to go ?

Does it matter?

This is as much in the bag as Patrick Ewing was to the Knicks.

They don't deserve him, but the Knicks getting Zion will be GREAT business for the NBA.

BigZ
05-13-2019, 11:14 PM
As a Lakers fan I want him but they probably do something stupid and trade him for Davis if they win lottery

BigZ
05-13-2019, 11:19 PM
Does it matter?

This is as much in the bag as Patrick Ewing was to the Knicks.

They don't deserve him, but the Knicks getting Zion will be GREAT business for the NBA.

Nah New York already got their Duke guy. Daniel Jones lol

Steven43
05-14-2019, 12:17 AM
I’m rooting for Philly as a completely random and fascinating outcome. But really anyone but Phoenix and Cleveland

Yeah, Phoenix, Cleveland and maybe the Knicks, if they don’t get any big-time free agents, would be awful.

budwom
05-14-2019, 08:12 AM
Is Adam Silver busy right now filling the Knick ping pong balls (do they still use them?) with Lucky Fluid? Suboptimal for the league if Zion ends up marooned in the hinterlands.

COYS
05-14-2019, 08:39 AM
Atlanta! Young athletic team on the rise in a city that is both close to Zion’s hometown and ready to embrace a good Hawks team. And while the Hawks have a past of being mismanaged, those days are long gone (save for one or two imprudent contract extensions a few years ago). I have a lot of faith in Atlanta’s front office to surround Zion, Trae Young, and John Collins with good complementary pieces that could transform the team into a perennial contender.

Steven43
05-14-2019, 08:46 AM
Atlanta! Young athletic team on the rise in a city that is both close to Zion’s hometown and ready to embrace a good Hawks team. And while the Hawks have a past of being mismanaged, those days are long gone (save for one or two imprudent contract extensions a few years ago). I have a lot of faith in Atlanta’s front office to surround Zion, Trae Young, and John Collins with good complementary pieces that could transform the team into a perennial contender.

That all sounds fine, but the Atlanta Hawks have such a mediocre history, the buzz factor with that franchise is so low, and the home crowds so far below average that I just can’t get excited about the prospect of Zion playing for them. I would be amazed if the Hawks were able to turn all of that around. I have nothing against them, though. And I am a fan of Trae Young.

flyingdutchdevil
05-14-2019, 08:47 AM
Is Adam Silver busy right now filling the Knick ping pong balls (do they still use them?) with Lucky Fluid? Suboptimal for the league if Zion ends up marooned in the hinterlands.

Knicks are a disaster. But imagine Zion gets drafted there. He automatically becomes the biggest New York star since Jeter. And Zion’s presence means 2 All-Stars are likely coming to New York.

I want Zion with the Knicks.

The only franchise I don’t want him to go to is Cleveland. Every other #1 pick contender has young pieces, mass exposure, cap space, or a blend.

Steven43
05-14-2019, 09:34 AM
Knicks are a disaster. But imagine Zion gets drafted there. He automatically becomes the biggest New York star since Jeter. And Zion’s presence means 2 All-Stars are likely coming to New York.

I want Zion with the Knicks.

The only franchise I don’t want him to go to is Cleveland. Every other #1 pick contender has young pieces, mass exposure, cap space, or a blend.

Yeah, Cleveland is a black hole. Not the city, but that franchise. Every time I think about them I get a sinking feeling.

Truth&Justise
05-14-2019, 09:51 AM
Okay where do you want Zion to go ?

How about Washington? If they land Zion they would definitely be my favorite team to watch....because they already are and I would love for something to go right for them. So.....go Washington!

COYS
05-14-2019, 10:14 AM
That all sounds fine, but the Atlanta Hawks have such a mediocre history, the buzz factor with that franchise is so low, and the home crowds so far below average that I just can’t get excited about the prospect of Zion playing for them. I would be amazed if the Hawks were able to turn all of that around. I have nothing against them, though. And I am a fan of Trae Young.

Atlanta is a rapidly changing city. Like most southern cities, the population of the metro area is pretty diffuse. However, Atlanta has grown so much that it is now the 9th largest metro area in the nation. And while many of the Atlanta transplants that fueled much of that grown in the 90's brought other sports allegiances with them, the children of those transplants have now grown up rooting exclusively for Atlanta-area teams. Atlanta is entering full adulthood as a major metropolis and is producing generational fans at a rate it never could in the past. Support for the Falcons is extremely strong. I don't know how much you follow soccer, but fans have supported Atlanta United so well that the team ranks among the best in the entire world for attendance for soccer matches . . . and that includes the big Euro teams like Barcalona, Real Madrid, Man United, etc. All the city needs is some buzz and a reason to get behind the Hawks and fans will flock to games, I am sure of it. The city is ready for it in a way that it hasn't been in the past. Yes, the Hawks lack history, but that lack of illustrious history hasn't stopped fans in other cities from embracing new contenders, such as Golden State or OK City. As for how Atlanta relates to the Braves, I could write a missive on how badly both the Braves and MLB as a whole have failed to diversify the fan base, with the Braves new suburban stadium as exhibit A, but that is for another day.

The main challenge for any NBA team is finding a top tier star (or two, or three) that can truly transform the team into a legitimate contender. Even on Atlanta's best teams of the past two decades, we've always lacked that top-tier talent to push us over the top. Al Horford was close and might have even become that type of player if he didn't have so many injuries that robbed some of his athleticism over the years. It's long overdue for Atlanta to get lucky, for once, and get that top-tier player. The type of buzz it will create will bring the fans. The city has shown it will embrace teams that can put out contenders in a way that is different and more passionate than in the past. If Atlanta somehow ends up with Zion (or, even better, Zion and Kawhi), it will be a spectacle. You'll see Atlanta's biggest music and cultural stars sitting on the sidelines. Tickets will sell out. The arena will be rocking. It will be completely different than even ten years ago.

I'm (just barely) old enough to have rooted for the Braves before they were actually good. The golden age run from 1991-2005 cemented my status as a lifelong fan. If Zion ushers in a golden age of Hawks basketball, it has the chance to transform the entire fan culture of the Hawks for a generation.

Neals384
05-14-2019, 10:22 AM
That all sounds fine, but the Atlanta Hawks have such a mediocre history, the buzz factor with that franchise is so low, and the home crowds so far below average that I just can’t get excited about the prospect of Zion playing for them. I would be amazed if the Hawks were able to turn all of that around. I have nothing against them, though. And I am a fan of Trae Young.

Really? If they get Zion, wouldn't you expect sellout crowds?

Duke79UNLV77
05-14-2019, 10:46 AM
Atlanta is a rapidly changing city. Like most southern cities, the population of the metro area is pretty diffuse. However, Atlanta has grown so much that it is now the 9th largest metro area in the nation. And while many of the Atlanta transplants that fueled much of that grown in the 90's brought other sports allegiances with them, the children of those transplants have now grown up rooting exclusively for Atlanta-area teams. Atlanta is entering full adulthood as a major metropolis and is producing generational fans at a rate it never could in the past. Support for the Falcons is extremely strong. I don't know how much you follow soccer, but fans have supported Atlanta United so well that the team ranks among the best in the entire world for attendance for soccer matches . . . and that includes the big Euro teams like Barcalona, Real Madrid, Man United, etc. All the city needs is some buzz and a reason to get behind the Hawks and fans will flock to games, I am sure of it. The city is ready for it in a way that it hasn't been in the past. Yes, the Hawks lack history, but that lack of illustrious history hasn't stopped fans in other cities from embracing new contenders, such as Golden State or OK City. As for how Atlanta relates to the Braves, I could write a missive on how badly both the Braves and MLB as a whole have failed to diversify the fan base, with the Braves new suburban stadium as exhibit A, but that is for another day.

The main challenge for any NBA team is finding a top tier star (or two, or three) that can truly transform the team into a legitimate contender. Even on Atlanta's best teams of the past two decades, we've always lacked that top-tier talent to push us over the top. Al Horford was close and might have even become that type of player if he didn't have so many injuries that robbed some of his athleticism over the years. It's long overdue for Atlanta to get lucky, for once, and get that top-tier player. The type of buzz it will create will bring the fans. The city has shown it will embrace teams that can put out contenders in a way that is different and more passionate than in the past. If Atlanta somehow ends up with Zion (or, even better, Zion and Kawhi), it will be a spectacle. You'll see Atlanta's biggest music and cultural stars sitting on the sidelines. Tickets will sell out. The arena will be rocking. It will be completely different than even ten years ago.

I'm (just barely) old enough to have rooted for the Braves before they were actually good. The golden age run from 1991-2005 cemented my status as a lifelong fan. If Zion ushers in a golden age of Hawks basketball, it has the chance to transform the entire fan culture of the Hawks for a generation.

I’d still say Atlanta is the epitome of a fair weather sports town, but Zion and Kawhi could bring some very fair weather. I’m not sold on Trae Young yet.

JasonEvans
05-14-2019, 11:02 AM
Here are the odds Zion will land on each team in the lottery and my assessment (bad, ok, good, great) of how he fits with that team in terms of Zion's development, exposure, and success.

Knicks - 14.0% chance. My take - Ok fit. The roster is devoid of talent and management seems clueless. Seem to be banking everything on signing free agents, which is a really risky move. Even in a best case scenario where they get two big time free agents (KD and Kyrie?), the rest of the roster would likely be rookie contracts and mediocre minimum contract retreads. Will a team with 2 stud stars be willing to take time developing Zion? I know he would make all the endorsement money, but from the standpoint of development into a star, I think this destination has a lot more questions than answers.

Cleveland - 14.0% chance. My take - Bad fit. The best player on the Cavs roster plays Zion's position and management seems even worse than the Knicks. This is the team that gets generational talents and then sees them flee from town. Seems likely that even if Zion is great, the team will be back in the lottery next year.

Phoenix - 14.0% chance. My take - Ok fit. Booker and Ayton are a nice young pair to put with Zion, though it is possible Ayton and Zion clog the lane a bit for each other. Team has a good, but not great, salary cap situation to try to lure some more help. In the talent-laden West, it feels like they would need more help to be a strong playoff team. Small market that may cause Zion to disappear a bit. I mean, how much did you see Ayton this year?

Chicago - 12.5% chance. My take - good fit. The city would love him and they are a big market team, but they already have a couple good big men in Carter and Markkanen and I am not a fan of their guards ability to put their bigs in a good place. Salary cap is in a good, but not great place, but it seems like they could add someone useful. Adding Zion and a decent free agent likely puts them in the playoffs.

Atlanta - 10.5% chance. My take- great fit. The perfect mix of young studs on rookie deals and cap space. Team has the money to sign 1 or 2 stud free agents to join him. Trae Young is a sublime passer who would get at least 3 or 4 easy buckets a game for Zion. Team would likely play a small-ball, fast pace style with Zion and Collins on the front line and a bevy of young shooters surrounding them. If there is a basketball god who loves me, this will happen.

Washington - 9% chance. My take - Ok fit. The contracts of Wall and Beal make it pretty much impossible for the Wiz to get any free agents. That said, when Wall gets healthy (in a year?), he is a dynamic passer and Beal is a great outside compliment as well. I think they would not be a playoff team right away with Zion, especially with Wall missing much of the season) but could be decent down the road.

New Orleans - 6% chance. My take - Ok fit. Everyone assumes AD is gone via trade this off-season, but if they get Zion, could that maybe convince the team and AD to see what happens at least for a few months of the season? If AD stays, he and Zion could be a matchup nightmare. Hard to assess what the team will be like if they trade AD but it is possible they bring back some pieces that fit really well with Zion and Jrue Holliday. Too much unknown here to say what this fit would be like. Side note-- there is a very real possibility that whoever gets the #1 uses it to trade for AD. In that case, Zion goes to a team that really only has Jrue and a couple role players as useful pieces on a successful team. This would be a bad result for Zion as I think he would be on a team that would be repeatedly in the lottery.

Memphis - 6% chance. My take - Bad fit. Most bad team are at least in a good salary cap situation, but not the Griz. They have max money tied up in 47-year old Mike Conley and 2016 insanity poster-child Chandler Parsons. 13 different players either came or went via trade last season, that's not a good way to build team chemistry. Even though I like the development of JJJ last season and think he could be good, it feels like they are several years away from being successful. Combine that with the fact that they are a small market team where no one will see Zion play and we have a lousy fit.

Dallas -6% chance. My take - Great fit. Zion alongside Luka would be two of the most dynamic and fun-to-watch youngsters in the league. They will obviously sign Porzingis to a max deal, but he sure looks like a special player when he is healthy. Their cap situation is good, not great, but they would probably have room to bring in some more help. This is a team and an ownership that is willing to do what it takes to be a contender.

Minnesota - 3% chance. My take - Ok fit. No cap room at all but Zion alongside KAT seems interesting. Wiggins is an enigma and not in a good way. Despite playing big minutes, Wiggins PER was 12th on the team... ouch. We saw Jimmy Butler flee this mess and it sure feels like this is a club that has talent but not a clue how to play together, especially on defense. Small market means Zion is out of the national spotlight and I don't really see Zion single-handedly making them into a strong playoff team. There is enough talent here so it is not a bad fit, but it sure isn't a good one.

Lakers - 2% chance. My take - Great fit. Sadly, there is only the tiniest of chances this could happen but putting Zion alongside another force of nature in Lebron would be so exciting. Lebron would be an excellent teacher about what it takes to become one of the best players in the game. They have a nice young core already in place, even if that young core is struggling to figure out how to play together. They have a ton of cap space too and adding Zion would make them an even more attractive free agent destination. Zion + a free agent makes this a championship contender.

Charlotte - 1% chance. My take - Good fit. They must re-sign Kemba and probably Jeremy Lamb too. Doing that will put them pretty close to luxury tax but they really don't have any other choice. Good backcourt with a wretched front court (Cody Zeller, Marvin Williams, and Frank Kaminsky are the bigs... maybe the worst set of bigs in the NBA) means Zion will get minutes and responsibility right away. Adding a quality big makes them a decent playoff team in the East.

Miami - 1% chance. My take - Great fit. We are talking about solid teams at this point, clubs who almost made the playoffs and who would be solid playoff teams with Zion. Miami has a lot of really good pieces but no stars... Zion could (in a year or two) be that star. No salary cap space, but a good core already means you do not need to add much other than Zion.

Philly - 1% chance. My take - Great fit. Philly gets Sacto's pick if it goes to #1, otherwise it belongs to Boston. Zion alongside Embiid with Simmons passing to them... WOW! It will never happen, but if this 1% longshot comes through, Zion immediately goes to a strong championship contender. Getting the #1 would certainly help convince Butler and Harris to re-sign. JJ would probably be willing to play for free for all the open jumpshots he would get as defenses tried to figure out how to stop Zion and Embiid.

-Jason "this took some time... and as I look back, I'm not sure what the point was ;) " Evans

AZLA
05-14-2019, 11:09 AM
It would for personal reasons be outstanding if The Suns were fortunate enough to draft Zion #1. However, for Zion's sake -- and optimal financial future -- New York is the market he needs to be in regardless of how bad the team is and the challenges of the ownership. NYC + ZION. I can see his image adorning Times Square now. Cleveland would be, meh. Yes, the Lebron comparisons are rife, but Lebron was Ohio born and that organization has its own challenges. Suns ownership is so bad; and I base that on the culture of losing and some of the unprofessional behaviors of the ownership -- including how Grant Hill was treated. They have some great young talent (and older -- Jimmer?!) in Booker and Ayton (Josh Jackson too, but he just got arrested) -- so I can see them become playoff worthy. But competing in the West is just tough with GS, Houston, Nuggets, SA etc. So i'm hoping for Zion that he gets picked up by the Knicks, then Suns, Atlanta...

Steven43
05-14-2019, 11:13 AM
I don't know how much you follow soccer, but fans have supported Atlanta United so well that the team ranks among the best in the entire world for attendance for soccer matches . . . and that includes the big Euro teams like Barcalona, Real Madrid, Man United, etc.
Atlanta’s fanatical support of the dreaded sport of soccer points out exactly what is wrong with Atlanta as a sports city.

We kid because we care. 😃

budwom
05-14-2019, 11:41 AM
Some good stuff has been written stating (logically it would seem) that Zion's endorsement deals will be much more lucrative if he lands in NY or another major market....of course regardless of where he goes Nike will be sending him wheelbarrows filled with gold...some expect his shoe deal could exceed the one LBJ got initially ($90 million?)...

COYS
05-14-2019, 11:42 AM
I’m not sold on Trae Young yet.

I will say that I was one of the Hawks fans who was not supportive of the Doncic trade with the Mavs. And I'd be thrilled if the Hawks had kept him. However, after a slow first month, Trae Young absolutely exploded and even matched or exceeded Doncic in some measures. He arguably had the best rookie season in Hawk's history and his numbers compare very favorably to Steph's rookie season, even though Trae was two years younger than Steph in their inaugural NBA campaigns (Trae had a higher PER, much better playmaking numbers, the same TO%, and just a slightly lower TS% despite a much higher usage rate). This is not to say that Trae will turn into the greatest shooter of all time and a future MVP winner, but it's hard for Atlanta fans not to be excited after a rookie season in which he blew away most reasonable optimistic expectations. He also showed an impressive ability to improve as the season wore on. He seems like a quick learner who is capable of adapting on the fly. His future on offense seems extremely bright. Like many rookies, it will depend on how his defense develops, but put some athletic, versatile defenders around him (like Zion, for instance) and I think he can look a lot like Steph on D. He's got quick hands and knack for steals.

UrinalCake
05-14-2019, 11:48 AM
Lakers - 2% chance. My take - Great fit.

Disagree with you on this one. Playing with LeBron has proven to be detrimental to a young star's career, and Zion and LeBron basically play the same position. The team combusted last season when it came out that LeBron was trying to trade everybody in order to get Davis. And even though Zion handled all of the media attention at Duke with incredible poise, I still somehow think he'd be more comfortable in a non-major market.

I'm hoping for Atlanta or Phoenix. Washington would be interesting because they could basically tank next season with Wall injured and then acquire another top pick. Definitely no Cleveland.

Duke79UNLV77
05-14-2019, 11:54 AM
I will say that I was one of the Hawks fans who was not supportive of the Doncic trade with the Mavs. And I'd be thrilled if the Hawks had kept him. However, after a slow first month, Trae Young absolutely exploded and even matched or exceeded Doncic in some measures. He arguably had the best rookie season in Hawk's history and his numbers compare very favorably to Steph's rookie season, even though Trae was two years younger than Steph in their inaugural NBA campaigns (Trae had a higher PER, much better playmaking numbers, the same TO%, and just a slightly lower TS% despite a much higher usage rate). This is not to say that Trae will turn into the greatest shooter of all time and a future MVP winner, but it's hard for Atlanta fans not to be excited after a rookie season in which he blew away most reasonable optimistic expectations. He also showed an impressive ability to improve as the season wore on. He seems like a quick learner who is capable of adapting on the fly. His future on offense seems extremely bright. Like many rookies, it will depend on how his defense develops, but put some athletic, versatile defenders around him (like Zion, for instance) and I think he can look a lot like Steph on D. He's got quick hands and knack for steals.

41 percent overall, 32 percent from 3, and 3.8 turnovers per game didn't exceed my expectations. To me, it seems some advanced stats overvalue very high volume, low percentage 3-point shooters. I'll grant that he definitely improved late in the year, so the future could be very bright.

flyingdutchdevil
05-14-2019, 12:43 PM
Here are the odds Zion will land on each team in the lottery and my assessment (bad, ok, good, great) of how he fits with that team in terms of Zion's development, exposure, and success.

Knicks - 14.0% chance. My take - Ok fit. The roster is devoid of talent and management seems clueless. Seem to be banking everything on signing free agents, which is a really risky move. Even in a best case scenario where they get two big time free agents (KD and Kyrie?), the rest of the roster would likely be rookie contracts and mediocre minimum contract retreads. Will a team with 2 stud stars be willing to take time developing Zion? I know he would make all the endorsement money, but from the standpoint of development into a star, I think this destination has a lot more questions than answers.

Cleveland - 14.0% chance. My take - Bad fit. The best player on the Cavs roster plays Zion's position and management seems even worse than the Knicks. This is the team that gets generational talents and then sees them flee from town. Seems likely that even if Zion is great, the team will be back in the lottery next year.

Phoenix - 14.0% chance. My take - Ok fit. Booker and Ayton are a nice young pair to put with Zion, though it is possible Ayton and Zion clog the lane a bit for each other. Team has a good, but not great, salary cap situation to try to lure some more help. In the talent-laden West, it feels like they would need more help to be a strong playoff team. Small market that may cause Zion to disappear a bit. I mean, how much did you see Ayton this year?

Chicago - 12.5% chance. My take - good fit. The city would love him and they are a big market team, but they already have a couple good big men in Carter and Markkanen and I am not a fan of their guards ability to put their bigs in a good place. Salary cap is in a good, but not great place, but it seems like they could add someone useful. Adding Zion and a decent free agent likely puts them in the playoffs.

Atlanta - 10.5% chance. My take- great fit. The perfect mix of young studs on rookie deals and cap space. Team has the money to sign 1 or 2 stud free agents to join him. Trae Young is a sublime passer who would get at least 3 or 4 easy buckets a game for Zion. Team would likely play a small-ball, fast pace style with Zion and Collins on the front line and a bevy of young shooters surrounding them. If there is a basketball god who loves me, this will happen.

Washington - 9% chance. My take - Ok fit. The contracts of Wall and Beal make it pretty much impossible for the Wiz to get any free agents. That said, when Wall gets healthy (in a year?), he is a dynamic passer and Beal is a great outside compliment as well. I think they would not be a playoff team right away with Zion, especially with Wall missing much of the season) but could be decent down the road.

New Orleans - 6% chance. My take - Ok fit. Everyone assumes AD is gone via trade this off-season, but if they get Zion, could that maybe convince the team and AD to see what happens at least for a few months of the season? If AD stays, he and Zion could be a matchup nightmare. Hard to assess what the team will be like if they trade AD but it is possible they bring back some pieces that fit really well with Zion and Jrue Holliday. Too much unknown here to say what this fit would be like. Side note-- there is a very real possibility that whoever gets the #1 uses it to trade for AD. In that case, Zion goes to a team that really only has Jrue and a couple role players as useful pieces on a successful team. This would be a bad result for Zion as I think he would be on a team that would be repeatedly in the lottery.

Memphis - 6% chance. My take - Bad fit. Most bad team are at least in a good salary cap situation, but not the Griz. They have max money tied up in 47-year old Mike Conley and 2016 insanity poster-child Chandler Parsons. 13 different players either came or went via trade last season, that's not a good way to build team chemistry. Even though I like the development of JJJ last season and think he could be good, it feels like they are several years away from being successful. Combine that with the fact that they are a small market team where no one will see Zion play and we have a lousy fit.

Dallas -6% chance. My take - Great fit. Zion alongside Luka would be two of the most dynamic and fun-to-watch youngsters in the league. They will obviously sign Porzingis to a max deal, but he sure looks like a special player when he is healthy. Their cap situation is good, not great, but they would probably have room to bring in some more help. This is a team and an ownership that is willing to do what it takes to be a contender.

Minnesota - 3% chance. My take - Ok fit. No cap room at all but Zion alongside KAT seems interesting. Wiggins is an enigma and not in a good way. Despite playing big minutes, Wiggins PER was 12th on the team... ouch. We saw Jimmy Butler flee this mess and it sure feels like this is a club that has talent but not a clue how to play together, especially on defense. Small market means Zion is out of the national spotlight and I don't really see Zion single-handedly making them into a strong playoff team. There is enough talent here so it is not a bad fit, but it sure isn't a good one.

Lakers - 2% chance. My take - Great fit. Sadly, there is only the tiniest of chances this could happen but putting Zion alongside another force of nature in Lebron would be so exciting. Lebron would be an excellent teacher about what it takes to become one of the best players in the game. They have a nice young core already in place, even if that young core is struggling to figure out how to play together. They have a ton of cap space too and adding Zion would make them an even more attractive free agent destination. Zion + a free agent makes this a championship contender.

Charlotte - 1% chance. My take - Good fit. They must re-sign Kemba and probably Jeremy Lamb too. Doing that will put them pretty close to luxury tax but they really don't have any other choice. Good backcourt with a wretched front court (Cody Zeller, Marvin Williams, and Frank Kaminsky are the bigs... maybe the worst set of bigs in the NBA) means Zion will get minutes and responsibility right away. Adding a quality big makes them a decent playoff team in the East.

Miami - 1% chance. My take - Great fit. We are talking about solid teams at this point, clubs who almost made the playoffs and who would be solid playoff teams with Zion. Miami has a lot of really good pieces but no stars... Zion could (in a year or two) be that star. No salary cap space, but a good core already means you do not need to add much other than Zion.

Philly - 1% chance. My take - Great fit. Philly gets Sacto's pick if it goes to #1, otherwise it belongs to Boston. Zion alongside Embiid with Simmons passing to them... WOW! It will never happen, but if this 1% longshot comes through, Zion immediately goes to a strong championship contender. Getting the #1 would certainly help convince Butler and Harris to re-sign. JJ would probably be willing to play for free for all the open jumpshots he would get as defenses tried to figure out how to stop Zion and Embiid.

-Jason "this took some time... and as I look back, I'm not sure what the point was ;) " Evans

I think you're being slightly bias here. New York and Phoenix for either exposure (New York) or young assets (Phoenix). New York - unlike Atlanta - can draw in anyone if Zion is playing there. Hell, this is New York. And while the Knicks suck, the fact that KD/Kyrie are even considering the Knicks shows the power that is New York. In Phoenix, you have assets galore in Ayton, Booker, Jackson, Warren, and Oubre. Yes, the pieces don't fit right now but you have a ton of trade options for a roster that is basically "under 25 years of age".

Personally, I want Zion in New York. Management sucks, but he'll be on TV every night, he'll have endorsements galore, and he'll have at least amazing teammate who can take the pressure off of Zion for the first ~18 months. Plus, New York needs a star. It's only fitting.

UrinalCake
05-14-2019, 01:09 PM
A priest, a rabbi, and a shaman....

No, this isn’t the start of a bad joke. It’s the scene in New York where spiritual leaders are praying for the Knicks to land Zion.

Link (https://nypost.com/2019/05/13/nba-draft-lottery-rabbis-and-witches-praying-knicks-land-zion-williamson/)

BD80
05-14-2019, 01:13 PM
...

Personally, I want Zion in New York. Management sucks, but he'll be on TV every night, he'll have endorsements galore, and he'll have at least amazing teammate who can take the pressure off of Zion for the first ~18 months. Plus, New York needs a star. It's only fitting.

And he'll have Lance Thomas to watch over him and guide him. Not to be underestimated.

kAzE
05-14-2019, 01:17 PM
As I have recently relocated to a city with an NBA team that happens to be an insanely great basketball situation for Zion, I now have a new favorite team for him. Come on Mavs!!

golfinesquire
05-14-2019, 01:26 PM
And he'll have Lance Thomas to watch over him and guide him. Not to be underestimated.

Especially if he wants to get a good deal on jewelry.

Dukehk
05-14-2019, 02:06 PM
Must watch if you're a Zion fan!

Said he would come back for a 2nd year, but reality is that he needs to take care of his family. I don't think he is just paying lip service. Just a genuinely humble and good kid. Whoever drafts him is getting a model citizen and superstar basketball player.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RuY0g7nGGng

J4Kop99
05-14-2019, 02:31 PM
Must watch if you're a Zion fan!

Said he would come back for a 2nd year, but reality is that he needs to take care of his family. I don't think he is just paying lip service. Just a genuinely humble and good kid. Whoever drafts him is getting a model citizen and superstar basketball player.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RuY0g7nGGng


Quick! Call a lobbyist that has the ability to influence pay-to-play in the NCAA. There's still time!! Oh yeah, and right-to-an-agent issues.


-This was a great watch. Thank you for posting.

curtis325
05-14-2019, 02:45 PM
A priest, a rabbi, and a shaman...

No, this isn’t the start of a bad joke. It’s the scene in New York where spiritual leaders are praying for the Knicks to land Zion.

Link (https://nypost.com/2019/05/13/nba-draft-lottery-rabbis-and-witches-praying-knicks-land-zion-williamson/)

Well it seems to be some kind of joke.

NSDukeFan
05-14-2019, 02:50 PM
Well it seems to be some kind of joke.

Pretty sure the Knicks are a joke right now and until ownership changes I do not hope for Zion to go there.

Steven43
05-14-2019, 03:05 PM
41 percent overall, 32 percent from 3, and 3.8 turnovers per game didn't exceed my expectations. To me, it seems some advanced stats overvalue very high volume, low percentage 3-point shooters. I'll grant that he definitely improved late in the year, so the future could be very bright.

Wait, are you talking about Trae Young or RJ Barrett?

AZLA
05-14-2019, 04:00 PM
A priest, a rabbi, and a shaman...

No, this isn’t the start of a bad joke. It’s the scene in New York where spiritual leaders are praying for the Knicks to land Zion.

Link (https://nypost.com/2019/05/13/nba-draft-lottery-rabbis-and-witches-praying-knicks-land-zion-williamson/)

Well one thing that is for certain is that in adding to the Legend of Zion is that this will be the most anticipated and most watched NBA lottery ever

BigZ
05-14-2019, 04:15 PM
I hope the Knicks end up getting the fifth pick. That would be hilarious

COYS
05-14-2019, 04:22 PM
Well one thing that is for certain is that in adding to the Legend of Zion is that this will be the most anticipated and most watched NBA lottery ever

The combination of Zion hype, the low opinion scouts have on the rest of the draft class, and the flattened draft odds makes this lottery SOOO important. The first pick is always the most valuable, but the gap between Zion and the rest of the draft class is seen as so big that the value is magnified even more than usual. Getting the number one pick hasn't been this important since 2003.

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
05-14-2019, 04:51 PM
I hope the Knicks end up getting the fifth pick. That would be hilarious

Cam Johnson.

BigZ
05-14-2019, 05:32 PM
I’m sure the Pelicans are rooting for Knicks or Lakers get get first pick if they don’t

bundabergdevil
05-14-2019, 05:39 PM
Zion is really going to surprise some people. Listening to local sports radio (Philly), it's pretty clear some of these sports commentators haven't watched anything but his SC Top 10 plays because all I'm hearing is he's just a dunker, he only had his athleticism, blah, blah, etc etc. Never called into one of those shows but had half a mind to today. He's got a great chance to be a disruptive talent in this league --- and I am absolutely looking forward to enjoying the show!

proelitedota
05-14-2019, 06:22 PM
http://www.espn.com/college-sports/story/_/id/26747489/ncaa-explores-compensation-names-likeness

Zion, pull out of the draft, there is a way!

brevity
05-14-2019, 06:24 PM
Well one thing that is for certain is that in adding to the Legend of Zion is that this will be the most anticipated and most watched NBA lottery ever

It should be Jami Gertz's biggest TV hit since Still Standing went off the air. (She also represented the Hawks last year (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3BTwcFL9R6g).)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3BTwcFL9R6g


I hope the Knicks end up getting the fifth pick. That would be hilarious

I don't know if anyone has pointed this out, but the bottom of the league/top of the lottery is dominated by the Eastern Conference (5 of 6 teams):

9387

With the lottery determining the top 4 picks this year, you can see an outcome where Phoenix gets bumped to 7th, and the top 6 picks all go East.

Steven43
05-14-2019, 06:38 PM
Guys and gals this is the last day that Zion is primarily going to be shown in media (tv, internet, newspapers, magazines) wearing his Duke jersey with the numeral 1. From here on out it’s going to be the jersey for whichever team he ends up playing. Enjoy Duke Zion for one last day. I’m sad.

phaedrus
05-14-2019, 07:32 PM
As I have recently relocated to a city with an NBA team that happens to be an insanely great basketball situation for Zion, I now have a new favorite team for him. Come on Mavs!!

Sad, Kaze. I was willing to grant you honorary Milwaukee status.

While it would be bad news for the Bucks, it would be great news for Milwaukee-area Zion fans for him to land in Chicago. Go Bulls!

Steven43
05-14-2019, 07:41 PM
I should amend what I just wrote. I guess the true final day of Zion primarily being shown in his Duke jersey won’t come until after the actual draft on June 20. Tonight is just the NBA Draft Lottery. Sure, whichever team gets the number one overall selection is going to take Zion, but it won’t be official until the draft occurs. I jumped the gun just a tad.

Dr. Rosenrosen
05-14-2019, 08:21 PM
Lot of Dukies on ESPN tonight! Jay, Jay, Adam, Zion, RJ and a Cherokee sighting just now! Any cheats tuning in must be absolutely loving it! :cool:

SavDukeGrad
05-14-2019, 08:23 PM
Zion and RJ looking very dapper at the draft lottery. Is Cam there as well? They haven’t shown him.

Interview with Zion and RJ coming up on ESPN now.

Dr. Rosenrosen
05-14-2019, 08:30 PM
Cam is there too!

bundabergdevil
05-14-2019, 08:32 PM
Zion and RJ looking very dapper at the draft lottery. Is Cam there as well? They haven’t shown him.

Interview with Zion and RJ coming up on ESPN now.

Wow. What an advertisement for Duke. Jay Bilas and Jay Williams are interviewing Zion and RJ and talking about the difficulty of going from a winning culture (Duke) to a losing culture (likely NBA teams).

Dr. Rosenrosen
05-14-2019, 08:36 PM
Zion’s humility is just so astounding in this day and age.

SavDukeGrad
05-14-2019, 08:38 PM
Our guys - Zion, RJ, and Cam - sitting together in the front row! What a great representation for Duke basketball!

Indoor66
05-14-2019, 08:39 PM
Zion’s humility is just so astounding in this day and age.

Back in my day he would be described as a nice, well mannered young man.

weezie
05-14-2019, 08:40 PM
Loving RJ and his tie clip!

UrinalCake
05-14-2019, 08:46 PM
Maybe they explained it earlier, but I am completely befuddled by this format. Teams randomly appearing in the “first four” grouping based on where other teams get picked. Help!

Dr. Rosenrosen
05-14-2019, 08:47 PM
Maybe they explained it earlier, but I am completely befuddled by this format. Teams randomly appearing in the “first four” grouping based on where other teams get picked. Help!
It just means they moved up from their otherwise expected slot based on the percentages and pre-determined draft order outside of the top four.

UrinalCake
05-14-2019, 08:48 PM
It just means they ended up in the top four and moved up from their otherwise expected slot.

But one of the teams showed up after like the #12 pick. Maybe it’s the three glasses of wine but I just don’t get it.

BigZ
05-14-2019, 08:49 PM
How awesome would it be if Zion and RJ end up together in New Orleans.

brevity
05-14-2019, 08:49 PM
With the lottery determining the top 4 picks this year, you can see an outcome where Phoenix gets bumped to 7th, and the top 6 picks all go East.

Three Western Conference teams crash the top four? THERE’S your conspiracy.

weezie
05-14-2019, 08:51 PM
Wow!

Dr. Rosenrosen
05-14-2019, 08:51 PM
Holy crap! New Orleans! This makes things interesting...

BigZ
05-14-2019, 08:52 PM
There goes the AD for Zion trade

bundabergdevil
05-14-2019, 08:53 PM
Holy Crap! That's going to change some things...NO, Memphis, NYC, and LA in that order.

CDu
05-14-2019, 08:53 PM
There goes the AD for Zion trade

That may have just saved the franchise in New Orleans.

CrazyNotCrazie
05-14-2019, 08:54 PM
Forget AD. Now Zion gets to play with Frank Jackson.

cbarry
05-14-2019, 08:55 PM
Ugh- Zion to New Orleans.

DavidBenAkiva
05-14-2019, 08:55 PM
Pelicans! Trade AD to Boston for Jayson Tatum and picks. Pair Tatum and Zion, get Okafor and Frank Jackson out there. That could be a hell of a team. Cajun devils!

scottdude8
05-14-2019, 08:57 PM
In my mind anything besides Phoenix was a win for Zion, so this is a win. Go Pels!

DavidBenAkiva
05-14-2019, 08:57 PM
Knicks got the 3rd pick. I bet they draft RJ. He could be a great fit alongside Kyrie and KD. Wow would that be an interesting team.

JasonEvans
05-14-2019, 09:03 PM
If there was one scenario where Anthony Davis stays in New Orleans, this was it. Unless someone offers them absolutely incredible young, cheap value players, I suspect New Orleans with at least spend a month or two seeing what the Zion and AD pairing look like on the floor together.

Jason “Meanwhile, this is a disaster for the Hawks. They won’t get anyone good enough to really help and I suspect they will now be good enough to not have a high lottery pick up anytime in the future” Evans

gam7
05-14-2019, 09:04 PM
Pelicans! Trade AD to Boston for Jayson Tatum and picks. Pair Tatum and Zion, get Okafor and Frank Jackson out there. That could be a hell of a team. Cajun devils!

Or pair Zion with AD... I'd pay to see that. If only the Pels could get AD... Oh wait...

BigZ
05-14-2019, 09:04 PM
Knicks got the 3rd pick. I bet they draft RJ. He could be a great fit alongside Kyrie and KD. Wow would that be an interesting team.

or AD traded for second pick and RJ and Zion are teammates

Steven43
05-14-2019, 09:05 PM
If there was one scenario where Anthony Davis stays in New Orleans, this was it. Unless someone offers them absolutely incredible young, cheap value players, I suspect New Orleans with at least spend a month or two seeing what the Zion and AD pairing look like on the floor together.
You don’t think Anthony Davis has burned his bridges with the New Orleans franchise as well as their fans?

bundabergdevil
05-14-2019, 09:07 PM
You don’t think Anthony Davis has burned his bridges with the New Orleans franchise as well as their fans?

If Lebron, Dan Gilbert, and the Cleveland fan base could make it work....

Steven43
05-14-2019, 09:07 PM
Knicks got the 3rd pick. I bet they draft RJ. He could be a great fit alongside Kyrie and KD. Wow would that be an interesting team.

Hey! Don’t talk that way. The Knicks better not take my Kyrie from Boston.

Troublemaker
05-14-2019, 09:08 PM
Pelicans! Trade AD to Boston for Jayson Tatum and picks. Pair Tatum and Zion, get Okafor and Frank Jackson out there. That could be a hell of a team. Cajun devils!

That's what I'm rooting for! We don't need all the major NBA Dukies to all be in the East.

Zion / Jayson out "West" in New Orleans while Kyrie and JJ battle for Eastern conference supremacy in NYC and Philly. (Justise, too, in Miami if Pat Riley can somehow build a contender).

JasonEvans
05-14-2019, 09:08 PM
You don’t think Anthony Davis has burned his bridges with the New Orleans franchise as well as their fans?

Winning cures all ills. If they win, AD becomes the darling of Bourbon Street once again.

Herbie
05-14-2019, 09:09 PM
I have to say, Zion looked absolutely shocked and I think, deeply disappointed in the post lottery interview. I doubt he had even really given much thought to New Orleans, given their odds.

dukelion
05-14-2019, 09:10 PM
Knicks got the 3rd pick. I bet they draft RJ. He could be a great fit alongside Kyrie and KD. Wow would that be an interesting team.

Well three guys that each want to jack up 30 shots a night certainly would qualify as interesting.

Troublemaker
05-14-2019, 09:12 PM
I have to say, Zion looked absolutely shocked and I think, deeply disappointed in the post lottery interview. I doubt he had even really given much thought to New Orleans, given their odds.

I dunno. I think you may be projecting. The Zion I "know" is thankful for the opportunity and is happy and ready to work wherever he lands.

dukelion
05-14-2019, 09:15 PM
I have to say, Zion looked absolutely shocked and I think, deeply disappointed in the post lottery interview. I doubt he had even really given much thought to New Orleans, given their odds.

Agreed.....he probably had all the big market teams dancing in his head.......but I'm sure he'll be just fine once things settle down.

Eternal Outlaw
05-14-2019, 09:15 PM
Poor Zion, superstars have been pretty clear they don't want to be there.

bundabergdevil
05-14-2019, 09:17 PM
Just hours before the lottery --- Speculation Knicks Could Trade 1 Pick for Anthony Davis (https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/knicks-could-look-to-trade-top-pick-in-nba-draft-for-anthony-davis-per-report/).

The Pelicans just really threw a wrench into so many plans and added a lot of new permutations to what this off season could look like.

JasonEvans
05-14-2019, 09:21 PM
I’m not sure I will ever be as happy as the people in the New Orleans pelicans ticket office were just a short time ago.

https://twitter.com/pelicansnba/status/1128463819628527621?s=12

ncexnyc
05-14-2019, 09:23 PM
So what happens now to Mike Conley? There was talk around the trade deadline of the Grizz trying to move him and now that they've got the 2nd pick do they take Morant and try to unload Conley's contract?

As far as RJ to the Knicks, the site I watched the Draft Order selection on, there were a number of comments that the Knicks were very high on Cam. Not sure how true any of that is, but it would be an interesting twist. Knox has been a bit of a project so far and I'm not sure they would want another project in Cam if they are really hoping to land KD and Kyrie.

ice-9
05-14-2019, 09:33 PM
Winning cures all ills. If they win, AD becomes the darling of Bourbon Street once again.

If they don’t, they’re hopelessly bad leaders.

BigZ
05-14-2019, 09:33 PM
Congrats NewYork fans you didn’t get Zion it you did get Daniel Jones lol

AZLA
05-14-2019, 09:45 PM
AD is a great talent. But i just don't see him wanting to share limelight that Zion will bring. I think when someone pushes for a trade mid-season; they want out and the expectation is stronger than trying to make hay with the situation. Zion deserves better than the dysfunctional/unresolved situation that is UniBrow-Pelicans. So, should be interesting how it turns out. Overall, that lottery was underwhelming. Zion will go wherever and rock it out. It's just that he saw marquee franchises or larger media markets pass him by... Chicago, Celtics, Cleveland, Heat, Lakers, Knicks pass him by... kinda mind boggling.

Eternal Outlaw
05-14-2019, 10:06 PM
Marc J. Spears

@MarcJSpearsESPN
Zion Williamson was QUICKLY whisked out of the room after Pelicans were announced the winner of the draft lottery. Source said the former Duke star was rooting to go to New York, but now is going to New Orleans.

KandG
05-14-2019, 10:12 PM
I dunno. I think you may be projecting. The Zion I "know" is thankful for the opportunity and is happy and ready to work wherever he lands.

Don't think it's just projection. Marc Spears, a very good reporter, reported that Zion was not pleasantly surprised. (https://twitter.com/MarcJSpearsESPN/status/1128473063409049600)

Zion Williamson was QUICKLY whisked out of the room after Pelicans were announced the winner of the draft lottery. Source said the former Duke star was rooting to go to New York, but now is going to New Orleans.


In fairness, I suspect the possibility of New Orleans winning the lottery was so remote Zion never thought about it. But I was surprised, given his normal ebullience, how sober he looked giving the interview after the lottery order was finalized. I suspect he'll be back to his normal playful and enthusiastic self once he realizes how good a situation he's in, especially if Anthony Davis stays.

The gulf between New Orleans and New York in terms of market power and NBA influence is significant, though.

nmduke2001
05-14-2019, 10:16 PM
Maybe Zion will remove his name from the draft now.

bundabergdevil
05-14-2019, 10:17 PM
Don't think it's just projection. Marc Spears, a very good reporter, reported that Zion was not pleasantly surprised. (https://twitter.com/MarcJSpearsESPN/status/1128473063409049600)

Zion Williamson was QUICKLY whisked out of the room after Pelicans were announced the winner of the draft lottery. Source said the former Duke star was rooting to go to New York, but now is going to New Orleans.


In fairness, I suspect the possibility of New Orleans winning the lottery was so remote Zion never thought about it. But I was surprised, given his normal ebullience, how sober he looked giving the postgame interview. I suspect he'll be back to his normal playful and enthusiastic self once he realizes how good a situation he's in, especially if Anthony Davis stays.

The gulf between New Orleans and New York in terms of market power and NBA influence is significant, though.

I have to imagine all these guys have the teams they'd like to join in the back of their minds --- then the professional reality of the NBA selection process sets in. It is what it is. I'd also take Zion's reaction and any reporting on it with a grain of salt. There'd been speculation in the past that he didn't want to play in a major media market (https://www.sportingnews.com/us/nba/news/zion-williamson-doesnt-want-to-play-in-a-big-nba-market-report-says/1xg7n4eu8o2pp1tbtmh9nsd80n) like NYC. Who knows if there's anything to any of it at this point. Lot can change, lot can change...

Gooch
05-14-2019, 10:19 PM
This tweet with the NY Daily News back page headline cracked me up...

https://twitter.com/MMehtaNYDN/status/1128469563262291971

Steven43
05-14-2019, 10:21 PM
It's just that he saw marquee franchises or larger media markets pass him by... Chicago, Celtics, Cleveland, Heat, Lakers, Knicks pass him by... kinda mind boggling.
Not trying to be rude, but......Cleveland? I would take New Orleans every day of the week and twice on Sundays over Cleveland.

Mrduke21
05-14-2019, 10:24 PM
Hypothetical: Knicks trade #3 pick to NO for AD. Zion and RJ reunite in the NBA!

KandG
05-14-2019, 10:43 PM
Not trying to be rude, but...Cleveland? I would take New Orleans every day of the week and twice on Sundays over Cleveland.

I wouldn't rank Cleveland with markets like New York, LA or Chicago, and I'd certainly take New Orleans as a city over Cleveland. However, New Orleans is a bottom five market in the NBA. Cleveland supports its basketball team and had successful teams even before they drafted Lebron.

I'm not a fan of Dan Gilbert as an owner but he invests in his basketball team. The Pelicans have been run like an adjunct of the Saints. To their credit, David Griffin is an excellent hire and ownership may start to put a lot more money into the Pelicans with Zion in the building. But NO has historically been a bad market for pro basketball.

BigZ
05-14-2019, 10:55 PM
Maybe Zion will remove his name from the draft now.

Imagine if he didn’t hire agent and came back

sagegrouse
05-14-2019, 11:01 PM
I wouldn't rank Cleveland with markets like New York, LA or Chicago, and I'd certainly take New Orleans as a city over Cleveland. However, New Orleans is a bottom five market in the NBA. Cleveland supports its basketball team and had successful teams even before they drafted Lebron.

I'm not a fan of Dan Gilbert as an owner but he invests in his basketball team. The Pelicans have been run like an adjunct of the Saints. To their credit, David Griffin is an excellent hire and ownership may start to put a lot more money into the Pelicans with Zion in the building. But NO has historically been a bad market for pro basketball.

Only 14 years ago, New Orleans lost one-half of its population after Hurricane Katrina and only partially recovered, with pop. declining from 484,000 in 2000 to 348,000 in 2010. Jefferson Parrish, surrounding NO, kept its population at about 480,000 throughout the decade. The NBA and team owner George Shinn stuck with New Orleans, although the then NO Hornets played two seasons in Oklahoma City before returning. The 2008 All-Star game was played in New Orleans as a reward for its struggles.

Yes, you're right -- even without Katrina, New Orleans is one of the smallest cities to have an NBA franchise.

SoCalDukeFan
05-14-2019, 11:06 PM
While not a fan of Zion to NO, gotta say congrats to the NBA for an exciting draft that could end tanking.

SoCal

AZLA
05-14-2019, 11:09 PM
Not trying to be rude, but...Cleveland? I would take New Orleans every day of the week and twice on Sundays over Cleveland.

Ha, yes good point. In all fairness I did hesitate before putting in Cleveland. Was thinking about recent NBA champ/finals and Lebron. But to your point I guess that doesn’t make it any shinier for most folks. Poor Cleveland. Actually enjoyed a few conferences there. End Cleveland persecution today!

brevity
05-14-2019, 11:39 PM
Can one man make a difference? Sorry, I mean a betting difference? (http://www.espn.com/chalk/story/_/id/26750209/vegas-lowers-pels-title-odds-300-1-25-1)


The Pelicans came into the evening tied for the worst 2019-20 NBA title odds at the Westgate Las Vegas SuperBook at 300-1, but their odds were lowered to 25-1 (tied for 10th-best) after they secured the No. 1 pick and the right to (presumably) draft Zion Williamson.

Edouble
05-15-2019, 12:16 AM
I dunno. I think you may be projecting. The Zion I "know" is thankful for the opportunity and is happy and ready to work wherever he lands.

He was pretty clearly upset and looked like he might cry when he was being interviewed. It was clear that the news was either shocking or disappointing.

He may not have had NOLA much on his radar to start the night with their 6% at the #1 pick.

Who knows, but his facial expression and affect were clearly different from earlier in the evening. Happy does not spring to mind to describe Zion at that moment.

Steven43
05-15-2019, 12:26 AM
Ha, yes good point. In all fairness I did hesitate before putting in Cleveland. Was thinking about recent NBA champ/finals and Lebron. But to your point I guess that doesn’t make it any shinier for most folks. Poor Cleveland. Actually enjoyed a few conferences there. End Cleveland persecution today!

Your final sentence really made me laugh. Funny stuff. 👍🏻😃

UrinalCake
05-15-2019, 09:08 AM
Hypothetical: Knicks trade #3 pick to NO for AD. Zion and RJ reunite in the NBA!

I’m thinking there’s a decent chance of some player movement over the summer. NO has some work to do to retain Davis. Do they consider trading away the pick in order to get a more immediate return? If Davis leaves, do they trade the pick to get multiple assets in return, since they’d be in full-blown rebuilding mode? Will the Knicks offer the #3 plus assets in order to trade up? Stay tuned.

thedukelamere
05-15-2019, 09:29 AM
Hypothetical: Knicks trade #3 pick to NO for AD. Zion and RJ reunite in the NBA!

I had a fever dream (and the only prescription was more cowbell) last night in which NOLA's offseason played out like this:

- Surprises the world and cuts ties with Alvin Gentry and signs.... Johnny Dawkins?!?
- Picks Zion at 1
- Trades AD for #3, NY's 2020 and 2021 1st rounders
- Takes RJ at #3
- Signs Kyrie as a FA
- Rescues Luke from Detroit through some magical 5 team trade
- Revitalizes Jah's career
- Jump starts Frank's 3rd year leap playing combo guard with an elite PG
- Picks Vernon with NY's 2020 1st rounder
- I purchase season tickets to Pelicans games despite living 900 miles away

BD80
05-15-2019, 09:33 AM
… But NO has historically been a bad market for pro basketball.

They even let the best team name go to Utah! Really, the Utah Jazz? For Goodness sake, Cleveland fought to save the "Browns" name for the city, and the Birthplace of Jazz watches the name "Jazz" go marching out.


... End Cleveland persecution today!

I have a proposal … raise Lake Erie by six feet. That will eliminate Cleveland persecution and all of Ohio except the eastern portions (to be annexed by PA and WV) and the southwest - which could become part of Indiana and/or KY. I imagine OSU's Engineering school would figure out away to survive (a good thing) but the rest of the buckeyes a would float away with the Ohio State troopers that openly admit to selecting Michigan drivers to ticket (an even better thing).

Billy Dat
05-15-2019, 09:36 AM
So what happens now to Mike Conley? There was talk around the trade deadline of the Grizz trying to move him and now that they've got the 2nd pick do they take Morant and try to unload Conley's contract?

As far as RJ to the Knicks, the site I watched the Draft Order selection on, there were a number of comments that the Knicks were very high on Cam. Not sure how true any of that is, but it would be an interesting twist. Knox has been a bit of a project so far and I'm not sure they would want another project in Cam if they are really hoping to land KD and Kyrie.

While I am disappointed the Knicks didn't win the lottery, it would have been a real crusher to drop from the top 3. I hope they do what makes sense and take RJ. I would be very very happy to have him on my squad and think he's a guy that can handle the spotlight and pressure that comes with a big media pack and fairly intense fans (intense but fair, for the most part).

nmduke2001
05-15-2019, 09:53 AM
Though AD says he won't sign a long-term deal with Boston, I still think a possible scenario would be trading Tatum and picks to NO in return for AD. It would be interesting seeing Tatum and Zion grow up together.

Troublemaker
05-15-2019, 09:54 AM
AD is a great talent. But i just don't see him wanting to share limelight that Zion will bring. I think when someone pushes for a trade mid-season; they want out and the expectation is stronger than trying to make hay with the situation. Zion deserves better than the dysfunctional/unresolved situation that is UniBrow-Pelicans. So, should be interesting how it turns out. Overall, that lottery was underwhelming. Zion will go wherever and rock it out. It's just that he saw marquee franchises or larger media markets pass him by... Chicago, Celtics, Cleveland, Heat, Lakers, Knicks pass him by... kinda mind boggling.

I don't think that would be a problem. It's more that Davis isn't going to want to mentor Zion for 3 years or so before Zion can become a top-10 player. Davis seems to want to win now, and he's not going to sign an extension with New Orleans.

Also, I don't think the fit is great because I think Zion's best position is at the 5.


Don't think it's just projection. Marc Spears, a very good reporter, reported that Zion was not pleasantly surprised. (https://twitter.com/MarcJSpearsESPN/status/1128473063409049600)

Zion Williamson was QUICKLY whisked out of the room after Pelicans were announced the winner of the draft lottery. Source said the former Duke star was rooting to go to New York, but now is going to New Orleans.


Unless the Knicks won the lottery, there was always going to be an unsourced report that Zion wanted to go to the Knicks. Maybe it's true, maybe it's not, but that reporting was always going to get made. Yes, I've examined all alternate universes, and Zion is always reported to have wanted the Knicks. /nerd



He was pretty clearly upset and looked like he might cry when he was being interviewed. It was clear that the news was either shocking or disappointing.

He may not have had NOLA much on his radar to start the night with their 6% at the #1 pick.

Who knows, but his facial expression and affect were clearly different from earlier in the evening. Happy does not spring to mind to describe Zion at that moment.

I'll take a look at the video. But before I do (and maybe allow other people's interpretations to bias mine), let me point out that the Knicks only had a 14% chance to win the lottery. AND there was a bunch of talk about how the Knicks might trade the #1 pick for Davis anyway, which means Zion ends up... in New Orleans. I can't see Zion getting that emotionally invested in such an unknown -- a 14% chance x the chance that the Knicks wouldn't trade him. If Zion was following things closely and getting invested, he had to know that New Orleans as a final destination was possible.


I’m thinking there’s a decent chance of some player movement over the summer. NO has some work to do to retain Davis. Do they consider trading away the pick in order to get a more immediate return? If Davis leaves, do they trade the pick to get multiple assets in return, since they’d be in full-blown rebuilding mode? Will the Knicks offer the #3 plus assets in order to trade up? Stay tuned.

The Pelicans keeping Davis is a bad bluff by David Griffin, imo, although I commend him for trying. It's not like Davis is going to sign an extension and forgo free agency. New Orleans will trade Davis this summer.


While I am disappointed the Knicks didn't win the lottery, it would have been a real crusher to drop from the top 3. I hope they do what makes sense and take RJ. I would be very very happy to have him on my squad and think he's a guy that can handle the spotlight and pressure that comes with a big media pack and fairly intense fans (intense but fair, for the most part).

RJ doesn't make sense alongside Kyrie and Durant. Hunter -- who can shoot and possibly be 3-and-D -- makes more sense, imo. So it depends on whether the Knicks are confident that the duo of Kyrie and Durant are coming.

Steven43
05-15-2019, 09:54 AM
Though AD says he won't sign a long-term deal with Boston, I still think a possible scenario would be trading Tatum and picks to NO in return for AD. It would be interesting seeing Tatum and Zion grow up together.

Did Davis actually say he will not sign a long-term deal with Boston? He singled-out Boston specifically?

Steven43
05-15-2019, 09:56 AM
RJ doesn't make sense alongside Kyrie and Durant. Hunter -- who can shoot and possibly be 3-and-D -- makes more sense, imo. So it depends on whether the Knicks are confident that the duo of Kyrie and Durant are coming.
I’m still trying to figure out why Irving and Durant would willingly sign on to be a part of the dumpster fire in New York. How does that make any sense?

sagegrouse
05-15-2019, 10:01 AM
I can understand Zion's seemingly lukewarm reaction to New Orleans -- as in, what the heck does this mean? Some nice players there, I suppose he thinks -- even some Dukies. But 80-90 percent of the media coverage out of the Pelicans has been about Anthony Davis's (a) not wanting to be there and (b) unwillingness to play. Not willing to play?!? Zion LOVES to play.

Anyway, what does it mean to be drafted by New Orleans next month? For Zion's sake, I hope there is some clarity soon.

UrinalCake
05-15-2019, 10:02 AM
I’m still trying to figure out why Irving and Durant would willingly sign on to be a part of the dumpster fire in New York. How does that make any sense?

Because Irving has interests outside of basketball and Durant grew up on the east coast and has long since wanted to be part of that franchise, plus he will never be the face of the organization while playing alongside Curry.

Steven43
05-15-2019, 10:07 AM
Because Irving has interests outside of basketball and Durant grew up on the east coast and has long since wanted to be part of that franchise, plus he will never be the face of the organization while playing alongside Curry.

I’m not really asking you in particular, but why is there the general assumption that Durant wants to be the face of an organization? Don’t you think Durant believed when he CHOSE to go to Golden State that Curry would remain the face of the franchise? He knew what he was signing on for.

nmduke2001
05-15-2019, 10:13 AM
Did Davis actually say he will not sign a long-term deal with Boston? He singled-out Boston specifically?

He did before the trade deadline. His father was very vocal about how they treated Isaiah Thomas.
https://www.nbcsports.com/boston/celtics/nba-rumors-anthony-davis-adamant-he-will-not-sign-long-term-deal-celtics

devildeac
05-15-2019, 10:18 AM
I had a fever dream (and the only prescription was more cowbell) last night in which NOLA's offseason played out like this:

- Surprises the world and cuts ties with Alvin Gentry and signs... Johnny Dawkins?!?
- Picks Zion at 1
- Trades AD for #3, NY's 2020 and 2021 1st rounders
- Takes RJ at #3
- Signs Kyrie as a FA
- Rescues Luke from Detroit through some magical 5 team trade
- Revitalizes Jah's career
- Jump starts Frank's 3rd year leap playing combo guard with an elite PG
- Picks Vernon with NY's 2020 1st rounder
- I purchase season tickets to Pelicans games despite living 900 miles away

I can't decide whether you spend too little or too much time here:

https://forums.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showthread.php?3840-Ymm-Beer

Perhaps you should have waited until after Dark Lord Day to post the above.

:rolleyes:;)

Steven43
05-15-2019, 10:19 AM
He did before the trade deadline. His father was very vocal about how they treated Isaiah Thomas.
https://www.nbcsports.com/boston/celtics/nba-rumors-anthony-davis-adamant-he-will-not-sign-long-term-deal-celtics

Yes, I knew his father was very negative about Boston, but what did Anthony actually say?

UrinalCake
05-15-2019, 10:21 AM
I’m not really asking you in particular, but why is there the general assumption that Durant wants to be the face of an organization? Don’t you think Durant believed when he CHOSE to go to Golden State that Curry would remain the face of the franchise? He knew what he was signing on for.

I’m not the most knowledgeable NBA guy but my guess is that he signed with GS because he wanted a ring after losing to them so many times while with OKC and he felt he’d never be able to get over the hump if he stayed. But now that he’s won multiple titles he’s ready for the next step and right now his legacy is that he couldn’t win a title on his own so he wants to prove he can do that. Winning a 5th or 6th title might not be as important as blazing a different trail on his own team. Also all of those guys on GSW took less money to keep the team together so maybe they all feel like it’s time to get paid the max deals they deserve.

Acymetric
05-15-2019, 10:37 AM
Though AD says he won't sign a long-term deal with Boston, I still think a possible scenario would be trading Tatum and picks to NO in return for AD. It would be interesting seeing Tatum and Zion grow up together.

I mean...it is possible in the sense that it doesn't violate the laws of physics as we know them. Seems highly unlikely though.

Acymetric
05-15-2019, 10:44 AM
I don't think that would be a problem. It's more that Davis isn't going to want to mentor Zion for 3 years or so before Zion can become a top-10 player. Davis seems to want to win now, and he's not going to sign an extension with New Orleans.

Also, I don't think the fit is great because I think Zion's best position is at the 5.

I'll take a look at the video. But before I do (and maybe allow other people's interpretations to bias mine), let me point out that the Knicks only had a 14% chance to win the lottery. AND there was a bunch of talk about how the Knicks might trade the #1 pick for Davis anyway, which means Zion ends up... in New Orleans. I can't see Zion getting that emotionally invested in such an unknown -- a 14% chance x the chance that the Knicks wouldn't trade him. If Zion was following things closely and getting invested, he had to know that New Orleans as a final destination was possible.

You think Zion is going to play the 5 in the NBA? I'm sure he'll be there at times, but I don't see him spending extended minutes there. You can exploit mismatches at both ends by playing him at the 4.

I'm also not sure why you seem to opposed to the idea that Zion wouldn't be excited to be going to NO. Arguably one of the worst destinations in the NBA right now...right alongside Cleveland and a few others. It has the unique qualities of both being a small market and being somewhat of a dumpster fire in terms of personnel issues. Not hard to imagine NO being last the list of teams he would want to go to.

CameronBornAndBred
05-15-2019, 10:59 AM
If the rumors that the Knicks were looking at trading Zion and Knox for AD, then he would have wound up in a Pelicans jersey anyway. At least this way, he won't get his NYC dreams let down after a highlight draft night.


However, The Athletic's Shams Charania reported Tuesday that if the Knicks win the lottery and secure the No. 1 pick, they will turn to a potential Anthony Davis trade and use likely top pick Zion Williamson of Duke and 2018 first-round pick Kevin Knox in a potential package for the New Orleans Pelicans center.
https://sports.yahoo.com/nba-rumors-knicks-shift-focus-191321001.html

Acymetric
05-15-2019, 11:01 AM
If the rumors that the Knicks were looking at trading Zion and Knox for AD, then he would have wound up in a Pelicans jersey anyway. At least this way, he won't get his NYC dreams let down after a highlight draft night.


https://sports.yahoo.com/nba-rumors-knicks-shift-focus-191321001.html

That...seems like an awful trade. Wouldn't you take that and run if you were NO, even if AD wasn't demanding to get out?

Steven43
05-15-2019, 11:03 AM
If the rumors that the Knicks were looking at trading Zion and Knox for AD, then he would have wound up in a Pelicans jersey anyway. At least this way, he won't get his NYC dreams let down after a highlight draft night.

If the New York Knicks are such a dream for NBA players, why haven’t any top free agents chosen to go there? Obviously, it’s not all that. If it were they would be getting elite free agents regularly. Thats my thought on the matter, anyway. Maybe I’m wrong.

Troublemaker
05-15-2019, 11:06 AM
You think Zion is going to play the 5 in the NBA? I'm sure he'll be there at times, but I don't see him spending extended minutes there. You can exploit mismatches at both ends by playing him at the 4.

Unless New Orleans picks up a stretch 5, Gentry will have Zion finish games at center. He's creative enough to do that. I would agree that Zion spends more time at the 4 just to avoid wear and tear, but when it's winning time, Zion will be a 5.



I'm also not sure why you seem to opposed to the idea that Zion wouldn't be excited to be going to NO. Arguably one of the worst destinations in the NBA right now...right alongside Cleveland and a few others. It has the unique qualities of both being a small market and being somewhat of a dumpster fire in terms of personnel issues. Not hard to imagine NO being last the list of teams he would want to go to.

In Griffin and Gentry, New Orleans now has one of the better GM/coach combos of all the lottery teams. I think Zion landed in a good spot for him. As far as personnel is concerned, I would hope that Zion had made peace that going overall #1 means that you are going to a bad team to start with. The hope is that your GM and coach are good and can build a team for the future. And Jrue Holiday is a really good player, so that's a start.

Steven43
05-15-2019, 11:08 AM
In Griffin and Gentry, New Orleans now has one of the better GM/coach combos of all the lottery teams. I think Zion landed in a good spot for him. As far as personnel, I would hope that Zion had made peace that going overall #1 means that you are going to a bad team. The hope is that your GM and coach are good. And Jrue Holiday is a really good player, so that's a start.
Heck yeah, it’s a start. I think this New Orleans situation could turn very positive in a hurry.

CameronBornAndBred
05-15-2019, 11:09 AM
That...seems like an awful trade. Wouldn't you take that and run if you were NO, even if AD wasn't demanding to get out?

Oh I agree on that. A lousy trade...but if they were gonna do it then Zion would have landed in New Orleans regardless.

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
05-15-2019, 11:09 AM
Best info I have found lists the average starting center at 6'11 in shoes. Zion is at 6'7. So on average he will give up four inches to his match up?
I don't see it. Even with his hops, that doesn't pass the straight face test.

Acymetric
05-15-2019, 11:15 AM
Best info I have found lists the average starting center at 6'11 in shoes. Zion is at 6'7. So on average he will give up four inches to his match up?
I don't see it. Even with his hops, that doesn't pass the straight face test.

Yeah, this only makes sense if your team doesn't have a competent NBA center (in which case, once you have Zion, you should make getting a competent center a priority).

Troublemaker
05-15-2019, 11:15 AM
Best info I have found lists the average starting center at 6'11 in shoes. Zion is at 6'7. So on average he will give up four inches to his match up?
I don't see it. Even with his hops, that doesn't pass the straight face test.

Zion will definitely play some center in the NBA. We can define the terms of a bet if you're interested.

It's really easy to envision actually, and I just don't think people watch enough NBA to know what they're talking about. How big are PJ Tucker and Draymond Green?

budwom
05-15-2019, 11:29 AM
Yes, I knew his father was very negative about Boston, but what did Anthony actually say?

I ran into my Celts insider at the dog park today (he has a very good source), and he says AD to Boston won't happen...I asked about Tatum, and he said he won't be traded....

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
05-15-2019, 11:37 AM
Zion will definitely play some center in the NBA. We can define the terms of a bet if you're interested.

It's really easy to envision actually, and I just don't think people watch enough NBA to know what they're talking about. How big are PJ Tucker and Draymond Green?

I'm sorry I don't watch enough NBA to have an opinion. Average of four inches, many times, five or six inches of difference.

I have no interest in a bet, and don't know what the logistics would even look like. I just don't see how it makes sense to have him in the five spot at crunch time against a taller (not necessarily "bigger," obviously) guy. I am open to being wrong, it just doesn't make sense to me.

kAzE
05-15-2019, 11:42 AM
Zion will definitely play some center in the NBA. We can define the terms of a bet if you're interested.

It's really easy to envision actually, and I just don't think people watch enough NBA to know what they're talking about. How big are PJ Tucker and Draymond Green?

I also think he will play center in some lineups. His leaping ability and size/strength combo make him the perfect small ball 5. He’s a much better version of Draymond.

Troublemaker
05-15-2019, 11:49 AM
I'm sorry I don't watch enough NBA to have an opinion. Average of four inches, many times, five or six inches of difference.

I have no interest in a bet, and don't know what the logistics would even look like. I just don't see how it makes sense to have him in the five spot at crunch time against a taller (not necessarily "bigger," obviously) guy. I am open to being wrong, it just doesn't make sense to me.

The short version of the explanation is just that it would be easier for Zion to play defense than it would be for the traditional center on the opposing team. Many teams end up playing small during crunch time even if they start traditional centers, who are becoming more and more devalued each year.

Troublemaker
05-15-2019, 12:07 PM
I also think he will play center in some lineups. His leaping ability and size/strength combo make him the perfect small ball 5. He’s a much better version of Draymond.

To be clear, Zion would very likely be a worse defender than Draymond just because Draymond is one of the best defenders of all-time, but yeah, the difference is that Zion could be a primary creator, even a pick-n-roll ballhandler from the 5 spot. Put Zion and 4 shooters out there -- and Griffin's job is basically just to surround Zion with good shooting -- and opposing teams probably can't even play a traditional center. Zion playing some at the 5 is an utterly uncontroversial opinion on an NBA forum.

HereBeforeCoachK
05-15-2019, 12:10 PM
To be clear, Zion would very likely be a worse defender than Draymond just because Draymond is one of the best defenders of all-time, .

I would not say that at all......Zion's physical skills are out of Draymond's class. He may or may not put the work in to become an elite defender - but his athleticism indicates a potential upside way above that of Draymond in every facet of the game.

Acymetric
05-15-2019, 12:11 PM
To be clear, Zion would very likely be a worse defender than Draymond just because Draymond is one of the best defenders of all-time, but yeah, the difference is that Zion could be a primary creator, even a pick-n-roll ballhandler from the 5 spot. Put Zion and 4 shooters out there -- and Griffin's job is basically just to surround Zion with good shooting -- and opposing teams probably can't even play a traditional center. Zion playing some at the 5 is an utterly uncontroversial opinion on an NBA forum.

There is a huge difference between what I originally objected to ("Zion's best position is the 5") and what you are saying here ("Zion will sometimes play the 5"). Agree that Zion spending some minutes at the 5 is uncontroversial. That it is his "best" position is definitely controversial.

Another point though...Draymond Green and PJ Tucker are "dirty work" guys. Zion will certainly be willing to do some dirty work, but I don't think that is his primary role, so I don't think either is a good comp. Not saying he's the next LeBron, but how much time has LeBron spent at the 5? The answer certainly isn't 0, but I doubt it comprises any significant portion of his minutes.

Steven43
05-15-2019, 12:11 PM
I would not say that at all...Zion's physical skills are out of Draymond's class. He may or may not put the work in to become an elite defender - but his athleticism indicates a potential upside way above that of Draymond in every facet of the game.

At this point I would have to agree. Zion’s potential is way beyond the level Green has reached.

Billy Dat
05-15-2019, 12:12 PM
RJ doesn't make sense alongside Kyrie and Durant. Hunter -- who can shoot and possibly be 3-and-D -- makes more sense, imo. So it depends on whether the Knicks are confident that the duo of Kyrie and Durant are coming.

As a Knicks fan, I don't want both Kyrie and Durant because I don't think they co-exist very well on the court. Kyrie has really confused me with his behavior this year and I am leery. I am hoping for Durant. As for RJ, I just believe in the kid and think he's a better pro prospect than anyone not named Zion, including Ja Morant.


I’m still trying to figure out why Irving and Durant would willingly sign on to be a part of the dumpster fire in New York. How does that make any sense?

I’m not the most knowledgeable NBA guy but my guess is that he signed with GS because he wanted a ring after losing to them so many times while with OKC and he felt he’d never be able to get over the hump if he stayed. But now that he’s won multiple titles he’s ready for the next step and right now his legacy is that he couldn’t win a title on his own so he wants to prove he can do that. Winning a 5th or 6th title might not be as important as blazing a different trail on his own team. Also all of those guys on GSW took less money to keep the team together so maybe they all feel like it’s time to get paid the max deals they deserve.

If the New York Knicks are such a dream for NBA players, why haven’t any top free agents chosen to go there? Obviously, it’s not all that. If it were they would be getting elite free agents regularly. Thats my thought on the matter, anyway. Maybe I’m wrong.

In terms of Durant to NY, there are two primary things happening. From a practical standpoint, his business advisor and close confidant, Rich Kleinman, is a New Yorker and I think has been selling him on the virtues of NYC. From a mystical standpoint, despite the fact that the NY Knicks have been a true dumpster fire for a long time, Madison Square Garden and the Knicks fanbase remain one of the true treasures of the NBA. When the Knicks are good, and the Garden is electric, it may be the best stage in the league. The reward for coming to NY and possibly leading the Knicks to a title and drinking in that ticker tape parade in the canyon of Heroes is one of the great brass rings in sports. The longer the wait...and we are 46 years and counting..the more magical it will be when it happens. When the Rangers broke the 44 year drought in 1994, it was amazing. NYC is one of the historic meccas of the sport. Durant knows this. He went to Rucker Park in 2011 and dropped 66 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K70VvU3IUqA) and felt the adoration of the locals. I know I am laying it on thick but, personally, this is how every free agent pitch should be made. Forget the endorsements, forget the velvet ropes and Spike Lee...sell the shot at immortality!!!!

Aside from the dumpster fire, the primary reason the Knicks have not gotten free agents is because they haven't had the money to do so in about 20 years. They finally have their financial house in order and haven't done anything dumb since Scott Perry took over the front office. As long as Dolan owns the team, I will always feel like the other shoe is about to drop but the team is in good financial shape now. If KD comes (which I still think is less than 50% chance so I am not getting my hopes up), then I hope they keep the picks and don't mortgage everything at once.

Finally, based on what I have read and listened to, KD went to GSW because he loved their team-oriented play and was sick of the iso ball that characterized his years with Russell. He also wanted to win a few titles, and claims to have been interested in tech investing. The business side of these things is always a little dubious to me because business can be conducted from anywhere, right?

brlftz
05-15-2019, 12:13 PM
...I just don't think people watch enough NBA to know what they're talking about...

There's a lot of that around here. You still see people chuckling about no one in the NBA playing defense too.

Zion playing a small ball center is a no-brainer.

Acymetric
05-15-2019, 12:17 PM
There's a lot of that around here. You still see people chuckling about no one in the NBA playing defense too.

Zion playing a small ball center is a no-brainer.

FWIW, that isn't what the conversation started out as, that is what Troublemaker pivoted to. The original statement that sparked this was "Zion's best position is the 5" not "Zion will spend some minutes at the 5". I'm not saying it is flatly false, but there is certainly room for some skepticism there.

Personally, I think the mismatches for him at the 4 (where he is arguably a mismatch on both ends) are better overall than the mismatches he creates at the 5 (where he'll be a mismatch on offense but likely just holds his own on defense. Of course game situation matters and if the game plan calls for going small then it makes sense to play Zion at the 5, but if you're going small with Zion at the 5 for large stretches of games as a normal part of the gameplan I submit your strategy is probably flawed.

Troublemaker
05-15-2019, 12:23 PM
FWIW, that isn't what the conversation started out as, that is what Troublemaker pivoted to. The original statement that sparked this was "Zion's best position is the 5" not "Zion will spend some minutes at the 5". I'm not saying it is flatly false, but there is certainly room for some skepticism there.

Personally, I think the mismatches for him at the 4 (where he is arguably a mismatch on both ends) are better overall than the mismatches he creates at the 5 (where he'll be a mismatch on offense but likely just holds his own on defense. Of course game situation matters and if the game plan calls for going small then it makes sense to play Zion at the 5, but if you're going small with Zion at the 5 for large stretches of games as a normal part of the gameplan I submit your strategy is probably flawed.

Actually, you're wrong. It's not a pivot because they are both true -- Zion's best position is the 5, and he will only play some there. I acknowledged very early on in the conversation that he's not likely to play the majority of his minutes at the 5 due to wear and tear, but in crunch time, players tend to to play their best positions. Which is why Draymond plays the 5 in crunch time.

You could've saved us some confusion by early on acknowledging that it's uncontroversial that Zion will play some at the 5. But I think actually it is you who made the pivot, no?

Troublemaker
05-15-2019, 12:31 PM
I would not say that at all...Zion's physical skills are out of Draymond's class. He may or may not put the work in to become an elite defender - but his athleticism indicates a potential upside way above that of Draymond in every facet of the game.


At this point I would have to agree. Zion’s potential is way beyond the level Green has reached.

Yeah, disagree. Draymond has some defensive instincts that can't be taught. It's not all about hard work.

Zion has a chance to be a better player overall, but he's not likely to be as good a defender.

AustinDevil
05-15-2019, 12:50 PM
Only 14 years ago, New Orleans lost one-half of its population after Hurricane Katrina and only partially recovered, with pop. declining from 484,000 in 2000 to 348,000 in 2010. Jefferson Parrish, surrounding NO, kept its population at about 480,000 throughout the decade. The NBA and team owner George Shinn stuck with New Orleans, although the then NO Hornets played two seasons in Oklahoma City before returning. The 2008 All-Star game was played in New Orleans as a reward for its struggles.

Yes, you're right -- even without Katrina, New Orleans is one of the smallest cities to have an NBA franchise.

I completely agree with the post you were quoting, Sage, but not with this list of stats and dated info. Yes, New Orleans has a mediocre-at-best NBA history, two major stars have asked to be traded over the years, and the population is not what it was in 2000.

But the area is thriving economically, George Shinn has been gone for ten years, the OKC relocation was twelve years ago, the Saints more than prove there is enough of a fanbase in the region to support pro sports, the Pelicans have a brand-new owner who is showing that she will not treat the Pelicans as an after thought (if her husband might fairly have been accused of that), and they also have recently put in place one of the better GM-coach combinations.

If Zion truly is disappointed, I don't believe it will last. Hopefully, he will be talking to Drew Brees for some advice soon.

Eternal Outlaw
05-15-2019, 12:59 PM
While not a fan of Zion to NO, gotta say congrats to the NBA for an exciting draft that could end tanking.

SoCal

I keep seeing people saying it as a win vs tanking but was it really?

Knicks were a below .500 team when their star went down with a bad injury last year, had no money in the cap to improve the team, and only could mortgage the future to try and make their team better this year. Knicks didn't tank, they just didn't do anything stupid that would burn them later like they did in past years

Cavs had a team built around trying to win, lost Bron for nothing, Love missed time, no tanking, going for title with Bron meant they were screwed once he left.

Suns actually tried to improve paying for Ariza around a young core, didn't work and they didn't do well but don't see them as tanking. Pieces don't fit.

So three teams with worst record, none of which I think should be considered tank jobs are picking 3, 5, 6.

On the other side, teams that kind of gave up midseason are 1, 2, 4. Tanking wasn't defeated, now it just means less incentive to go after the last playoff spot or 2 to get blasted by a 1 or 2 seed and instead work on the improved lottery odds. Shutting down probably got the Lakers 10 draft spots, could have easily beat the 39 win crowd and be slotted for 14.

If people want to call NY, Cleveland, and Phoenix tanking, what were the reasonable fixes before this season they ignored? Trading all their future assets and if it doesn't work out then they are screwed for the next 10 years?

This isn't a win vs tanking, it just signals that giving up on low playoff seeds sooner in the season might reap rewards, a different set of teams will think about tanking.

kAzE
05-15-2019, 01:22 PM
@JasonEvans

So, now that the lottery is done, would you rather have Trae Young and the 10th pick in this draft or Luka Doncic?

Dukehk
05-15-2019, 01:29 PM
Kind of worried that NO is a bad landing spot for Zion.

At least with the Knicks he would be in a big market. I guess the silver lining is that he will have time to develop without too much pressure on him.

Reddevil
05-15-2019, 01:30 PM
All I know is that there was about a five minute period during the draft where Zion to the Lakers was a possibility. That would have been nuts.

Now back to your discussion of whether or not Zion plays PG during crunch time or whatever....:rolleyes:

devildeac
05-15-2019, 01:30 PM
Best info I have found lists the average starting center at 6'11 in shoes. Zion is at 6'7. So on average he will give up four inches to his match up?
I don't see it. Even with his hops, that doesn't pass the straight face test.

Are you quoting Zion's height with or without shoes, or remnants thereof.

(yep, too soon :o)

superdave
05-15-2019, 01:34 PM
I was a little surprised to see Davis re-up his trade demand so quickly last night. Guessing Pelicans give it a few more tires, but a trade right around the start of training camp makes sense. I dont think any package of 2019 picks makes sense.

https://theathletic.com/978253/2019/05/14/charania-despite-pelicans-winning-nba-draft-lottery-anthony-davis-still-wants-to-be-traded-discussion/

I think if the Celtics dont offer a package including Tatum and the Memphis pick and the Lakers dont include Ball and Ingram, then we may have a dark horse deal, ie. how Toronto swooped in for Kawhi last year. Could OKC offer Paul George? Could Utah offer Gobert and future picks?

Teams might be willing to roll the dice on a 1-year rental after George re-signed in OKC and especially if Kawhi re-signs in Toronto quickly this July.

UrinalCake
05-15-2019, 01:48 PM
Are you quoting Zion's height with or without shoes, or remnants thereof.

(yep, too soon :o)

Zion in shoes is the same height as Zion without shoes 8-(

Kfanarmy
05-15-2019, 01:50 PM
I keep seeing people saying it as a win vs tanking but was it really?

Knicks were a below .500 team when their star went down with a bad injury last year, had no money in the cap to improve the team, and only could mortgage the future to try and make their team better this year. Knicks didn't tank, they just didn't do anything stupid that would burn them later like they did in past years

Cavs had a team built around trying to win, lost Bron for nothing, Love missed time, no tanking, going for title with Bron meant they were screwed once he left.

Suns actually tried to improve paying for Ariza around a young core, didn't work and they didn't do well but don't see them as tanking. Pieces don't fit.

So three teams with worst record, none of which I think should be considered tank jobs are picking 3, 5, 6.

On the other side, teams that kind of gave up midseason are 1, 2, 4. Tanking wasn't defeated, now it just means less incentive to go after the last playoff spot or 2 to get blasted by a 1 or 2 seed and instead work on the improved lottery odds. Shutting down probably got the Lakers 10 draft spots, could have easily beat the 39 win crowd and be slotted for 14.

If people want to call NY, Cleveland, and Phoenix tanking, what were the reasonable fixes before this season they ignored? Trading all their future assets and if it doesn't work out then they are screwed for the next 10 years?

This isn't a win vs tanking, it just signals that giving up on low playoff seeds sooner in the season might reap rewards, a different set of teams will think about tanking.

sorry, but I don't get the logic here: "Knicks didn't tank, they just didn't do anything stupid that would burn them later like they did in past years" in other words, they didn't try to win, but that's not tanking?

and here: "On the other side, teams that kind of gave up midseason are 1, 2, 4." so AD demanding a trade = New Orleans "giving up?"

House P
05-15-2019, 02:00 PM
I'm also not sure why you seem to opposed to the idea that Zion wouldn't be excited to be going to NO. Arguably one of the worst destinations in the NBA right now...right alongside Cleveland and a few others. It has the unique qualities of both being a small market and being somewhat of a dumpster fire in terms of personnel issues. Not hard to imagine NO being last the list of teams he would want to go to.

I found it interesting that the "Final 4" in the lottery consisted of the 2 largest TV markets in the NBA (NY and LA) and the 2 smallest TV markets (New Orleans and Memphis) ... and the two smallest markets ended up with the top 2 picks.

Based on this list (https://www.nielsen.com/content/dam/corporate/us/en/public%20factsheets/tv/2018-19-dma-ranker.pdf), New Orleans is the 50th largest TV market in the US. Here are some TV markets which are larger than New Orleans and Memphis.


Raleigh-Durham
Hartford & New Haven
Columbus OH
Greenville-Spartanburg-Asheville
Harrisburg-Lancaster-Lebanon-York
Birmingham
Norfolk-Portsmouth-Newport News
Greensboro-High Point-Winston Salem
Grand Rapids-Kalamazoo-Battle Creek


Kinda odd that Zion will likely end up going to an NBA franchise which plays in a smaller TV market than where he played in college (Raleigh-Durham) and high school (Greenville-Spartanburg).


Don't get me wrong, I think New Orleans is a fantastic city and I hope Zion excels wherever he goes. I just wanted to provide some quantitative perspective regarding how small a market New Orleans is for the NBA draft pick with the biggest buzz since Lebron.

nmduke2001
05-15-2019, 03:41 PM
I found it interesting that the "Final 4" in the lottery consisted of the 2 largest TV markets in the NBA (NY and LA) and the 2 smallest TV markets (New Orleans and Memphis) ... and the two smallest markets ended up with the top 2 picks.

Based on this list (https://www.nielsen.com/content/dam/corporate/us/en/public%20factsheets/tv/2018-19-dma-ranker.pdf), New Orleans is the 50th largest TV market in the US. Here are some TV markets which are larger than New Orleans and Memphis.


Raleigh-Durham
Hartford & New Haven
Columbus OH
Greenville-Spartanburg-Asheville
Harrisburg-Lancaster-Lebanon-York
Birmingham
Norfolk-Portsmouth-Newport News
Greensboro-High Point-Winston Salem
Grand Rapids-Kalamazoo-Battle Creek


Kinda odd that Zion will likely end up going to an NBA franchise which plays in a smaller TV market than where he played in college (Raleigh-Durham) and high school (Greenville-Spartanburg).


Don't get me wrong, I think New Orleans is a fantastic city and I hope Zion excels wherever he goes. I just wanted to provide some quantitative perspective regarding how small a market New Orleans is for the NBA draft pick with the biggest buzz since Lebron.

No offense, but there isn't really anything odd about it. New Orleans has a team. They were in the lottery. The size of the TV market should not have any impact on the lottery otherwise it would be rigged.

Steven43
05-15-2019, 03:46 PM
All I know is that there was about a five minute period during the draft where Zion to the Lakers was a possibility. That would have been nuts.
And it would have been a catastrophe, in my mind, had it happened. I’m glad I wasn’t watching during that 5-minute period. I would have been beside myself with anxiety.

House P
05-15-2019, 04:09 PM
The size of the TV market should not have any impact on the lottery otherwise it would be rigged.

I fully agree. For a while, it seemed like we could be headed for a whole bunch of hot takes from the folks who claim that the NBA (lottery) is rigged. However, only moments later, the two smallest markets won the lottery and the conspiracy theorists now have to wait for the next coincidence that fits their worldview.

As you say, the lottery results are pretty clear evidence that the lottery isn't rigged. Unless, of course, they rigged it that way to make us believe that it wasn't rigged. :cool:

Troublemaker
05-15-2019, 05:58 PM
You could've saved us some confusion by early on acknowledging that it's uncontroversial that Zion will play some at the 5.

Acymetric, my bad. Looking over the string again, I see you did acknowledge early on that Zion would play some center. I guess I conflated your opinion with MtnDevil's. We still disagree about Zion's most effective position (as opposed to where he will play the most minutes), but reasonable minds can disagree.


Kind of worried that NO is a bad landing spot for Zion.

At least with the Knicks he would be in a big market. I guess the silver lining is that he will have time to develop without too much pressure on him.

Any reason why? Time will tell, but I think he's with a good GM / coach combo, which makes New Orleans a better destination than most of the other lottery teams.

JetpackJesus
05-15-2019, 06:28 PM
Here's Windhorst (http://www.espn.com/video/clip?id=26756500) talking about how Zion hasn't hired an agent or signed a shoe deal yet, so he could threaten to return to Duke (or actually do it) rather than be drafted by NOLA. It's utter nonsense, of course, but I do find it amusing that this conversation happened at all.

But speaking selfishly, Just Do It, Zion!

JGB
05-15-2019, 06:28 PM
Like a steam locomotive, rollin' down the track
He's gone, he's gone and nothin's gonna bring him back, he's gone

+19390

BD80
05-15-2019, 06:33 PM
Here's Windhorst (http://www.espn.com/video/clip?id=26756500) talking about how Zion hasn't hired an agent or signed a shoe deal yet, so he could threaten to return to Duke (or actually do it) rather than be drafted by NOLA. It's utter nonsense, of course, but I do find it amusing that this conversation happened at all.

But speaking selfishly, Just Do It, Zion!

Frankly, I am surprised that Zion does not yet have a shoe deal, nor an agent.

KandG
05-15-2019, 06:53 PM
Here's Windhorst (http://www.espn.com/video/clip?id=26756500) talking about how Zion hasn't hired an agent or signed a shoe deal yet, so he could threaten to return to Duke (or actually do it) rather than be drafted by NOLA. It's utter nonsense, of course, but I do find it amusing that this conversation happened at all.

But speaking selfishly, Just Do It, Zion!

I think this is just posturing and media fodder. Zion returning to school, however it may make this board happy, would be a disaster for his image. The anticipation for his NBA career and his overall likability couldn't be much higher than it is now -- the lottery show on ESPN last night was almost 100 percent Zion highlights, despite the presence of other very good players who are going to be drafted just behind him.

Returning to school to risk injury because he didn't like the team that won the lottery would be bizarre. (For what it's worth, the best part of the clip linked above is Richard Jefferson shaking his head vigorously as Windhorst lays out the scenario)

SoCalDukeFan
05-15-2019, 06:57 PM
I keep seeing people saying it as a win vs tanking but was it really?

Knicks were a below .500 team when their star went down with a bad injury last year, had no money in the cap to improve the team, and only could mortgage the future to try and make their team better this year. Knicks didn't tank, they just didn't do anything stupid that would burn them later like they did in past years

Cavs had a team built around trying to win, lost Bron for nothing, Love missed time, no tanking, going for title with Bron meant they were screwed once he left.

Suns actually tried to improve paying for Ariza around a young core, didn't work and they didn't do well but don't see them as tanking. Pieces don't fit.

So three teams with worst record, none of which I think should be considered tank jobs are picking 3, 5, 6.

On the other side, teams that kind of gave up midseason are 1, 2, 4. Tanking wasn't defeated, now it just means less incentive to go after the last playoff spot or 2 to get blasted by a 1 or 2 seed and instead work on the improved lottery odds. Shutting down probably got the Lakers 10 draft spots, could have easily beat the 39 win crowd and be slotted for 14.

If people want to call NY, Cleveland, and Phoenix tanking, what were the reasonable fixes before this season they ignored? Trading all their future assets and if it doesn't work out then they are screwed for the next 10 years?

This isn't a win vs tanking, it just signals that giving up on low playoff seeds sooner in the season might reap rewards, a different set of teams will think about tanking.

I don't follow the NBA regular season closely enough to tell you who tanked and who did not.

However, any team thinking of tanking needs to think again after this draft, assuming the format remains unchanged.

Finishing with one of the 3 worst records does not guarantee a top 3 pick so why tank? Tanking, by definition, means you will have a very bad season and probably very low attendance.

I also doubt if a team with a legitimate shot at the playoffs will tank to get out of the playoffs and into the lottery at one of the higher spots. I think there is not that much difference in perceived talent of the players at the end of the lottery selections vs the those at say 15 - 18 to justify dropping out of the playoffs.

SoCal

bundabergdevil
05-15-2019, 07:59 PM
Here's Windhorst (http://www.espn.com/video/clip?id=26756500) talking about how Zion hasn't hired an agent or signed a shoe deal yet, so he could threaten to return to Duke (or actually do it) rather than be drafted by NOLA. It's utter nonsense, of course, but I do find it amusing that this conversation happened at all.

But speaking selfishly, Just Do It, Zion!

The Ringer has up an article that analyzes Zion's options if he really didn't want to join the Pelicans (https://www.theringer.com/nba/2019/5/15/18626646/zion-williamson-nba-draft-new-orleans-pelicans-player-power), including a return to school. All this is enormously speculative and appears to be based on reading the tea leaves of Zion's face. Sounds like he doesn't plan to participate in the combine media day so we may just not hear from him for a while. That's probably a smart move --- the level of hype around this guy is astounding. I'd enjoy some media silence while I could...

DangerDevil
05-15-2019, 08:28 PM
Not that surprising but there are numerous outlets reporting that the Grizzlies have indicated that they intend to select Ja Morant with the 2nd pick.

CameronBornAndBred
05-15-2019, 10:12 PM
Jason “Meanwhile, this is a disaster for the Hawks. They won’t get anyone good enough to really help and I suspect they will now be good enough to not have a high lottery pick up anytime in the future” Evans
But according to this Yahoo Sports mock draft, you'll get to watch Reddish ride the Hawks bench and miss free throws in garbage time.

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/2019-nba-mock-draft-30-pelicans-are-the-big-winners-with-zion-173924494.html

SoCalDukeFan
05-15-2019, 11:31 PM
Jason “Meanwhile, this is a disaster for the Hawks. They won’t get anyone good enough to really help and I suspect they will now be good enough to not have a high lottery pick up anytime in the future” Evans

Tanking made some sense in the past.

SoCal

brevity
05-15-2019, 11:49 PM
Jason “Meanwhile, this is a disaster for the Hawks. They won’t get anyone good enough to really help and I suspect they will now be good enough to not have a high lottery pick up anytime in the future” Evans

I've been thinking about this, and if the Hawks really liked someone after the top 3 picks, they could use the #8 and #10 picks and trade up.

In a few days, once people remember that the NBA Draft has 59 other picks, we'll hit upon a real topic of interest: after Zion, Ja, and RJ, how do we rank players for the rest of the lottery? Not only is there no consensus #4 pick right now, but there are some wild disparities among the mocks and predictors. (I've seen Rai Hachimura as high as #4 and as low as #15.)

So maybe the #8 and #10 picks are like getting two #4 picks in an eye-of-the-beholder kind of way, and Atlanta should keep them.

Steven43
05-16-2019, 12:14 AM
...you'll get to watch Reddish ride the Hawks bench and miss free throws in garbage time.

Dang....that’s harsh.

Dukehk
05-16-2019, 01:25 AM
Here's Windhorst (http://www.espn.com/video/clip?id=26756500) talking about how Zion hasn't hired an agent or signed a shoe deal yet, so he could threaten to return to Duke (or actually do it) rather than be drafted by NOLA. It's utter nonsense, of course, but I do find it amusing that this conversation happened at all.

But speaking selfishly, Just Do It, Zion!

That sounds very far fetched but one can hope!

I think what the pels should do is trade Anthony Davis to NYK for the no. 3 pick and other assets so they can pair RJ with Zion again. That would turn the franchise around almost immediately.

budwom
05-16-2019, 08:17 AM
Zion could return to Duke and not play, just spend a lot of time in the gym getting his body NBA ready.

CameronBornAndBred
05-16-2019, 08:20 AM
Dang...that’s harsh.

And likely true.
Unless he miraculously finds a different game in the NBA next year than the one he played this past season at Duke, I can only see most of his actual playing time being spent on the court in some G-League city. It will likely be that or lots of DNPs in his near future.
That's not a bad thing, as it will at least get him experience. You could say the same thing about Grayson this year, and that path worked out decently well for him by the end of the season.

CameronBornAndBred
05-16-2019, 08:22 AM
Zion could return to Duke and not play, just spend a lot of time in the gym getting his body NBA ready.

How big is "NBA ready" Zion?

sagegrouse
05-16-2019, 08:28 AM
I've been thinking about this, and if the Hawks really liked someone after the top 3 picks, they could use the #8 and #10 picks and trade up.

In a few days, once people remember that the NBA Draft has 59 other picks, we'll hit upon a real topic of interest: after Zion, Ja, and RJ, how do we rank players for the rest of the lottery? Not only is there no consensus #4 pick right now, but there are some wild disparities among the mocks and predictors. (I've seen Rai Hachimura as high as #4 and as low as #15.)

So maybe the #8 and #10 picks are like getting two #4 picks in an eye-of-the-beholder kind of way, and Atlanta should keep them.

Hey, Brevity, ain't cha livin' in Nawlins? Can you offer some local perspective? Are the locals -- at least the sports media version -- ecstatic about the draft lottery and Zion? Or, is life going just on in the Crescent City, just like the other 364 days of the year -- jazz clubs (and funerals), po' boys, red beans and rice, etc.?

dukebluesincebirth
05-16-2019, 08:36 AM
Well, a few articles online are saying Zion coming back to Duke is a possibility. What if Delaurier and Bolden go pro, and Zion comes back?
I think this would open up plenty of playing time for Zion at the 4-5 position, and he'd even have a shot at starting:D...... in all seriousness, is Zion coming back even a real possibility? Many have said he wasn't thrilled about going to New Orleans.

CameronBornAndBred
05-16-2019, 08:48 AM
Well, a few articles online are saying Zion coming back to Duke is a possibility. What if Delaurier and Bolden go pro, and Zion comes back?
I think this would open up plenty of playing time for Zion at the 4-5 position, and he'd even have a shot at starting:D... in all seriousness, is Zion coming back even a real possibility? Many have said he wasn't thrilled about going to New Orleans.

I'm not sure the NCAA would even allow Zion to come back. Not because of any eligibility issues, but just because it wouldn't be fair to our future opponents.

flyingdutchdevil
05-16-2019, 08:58 AM
Well, a few articles online are saying Zion coming back to Duke is a possibility. What if Delaurier and Bolden go pro, and Zion comes back?
I think this would open up plenty of playing time for Zion at the 4-5 position, and he'd even have a shot at starting:D... in all seriousness, is Zion coming back even a real possibility? Many have said he wasn't thrilled about going to New Orleans.

Not happening. Next question...

I initially hated the idea of Zion in NO. However, I kinda like the idea IF the Pellies offload AD to LAL. That haul, including the #4 pick, allows the Pellies to make this Zion's team from Day 1 and allows the team to growing considerable for the next 3-4 years. Think of Zion, Ball, Ingram, Kuzma, and Culver on the same team. Furthermore, despite Jrue Holiday being a really good player (and elite defender), he's 28 years old. Maybe keep him as a veteran presence? Do flip him for picks and young players? Either way, it's a win-win.

Yes, NO is a tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny market. But players can eclipse small markets (Lebron, AD, Garnett in Minny, Durant/Westbrook in OKC) as long as they have top 10 potential. And Zion absolutely does.

UrinalCake
05-16-2019, 09:04 AM
How big is "NBA ready" Zion?

This big (https://twitter.com/ballislife/status/1128487845461729281?s=21)

Steven43
05-16-2019, 09:38 AM
Not happening. Next question...

I initially hated the idea of Zion in NO. However, I kinda like the idea IF the Pellies offload AD to LA.

Why would you want to strengthen the Lakers by giving them that which they so desperately seek? The last thing I would want is to see Lebron James once again be a serious contender for a championship. He’s already insufferable enough while losing. I can’t even imagine how he would act if winning again. We’d probably have to put up with two or three new tv shows starring him.

flyingdutchdevil
05-16-2019, 10:14 AM
Why would you want to strengthen the Lakers by giving them that which they so desperately seek? The last thing I would want is to see Lebron James once again be a serious contender for a championship. He’s already insufferable enough while losing. I can’t even imagine how he would act if winning again. We’d probably have to put up with two or three new tv shows starring him.

Unlike more folks around here, I like Lebron. He is a whinner and arrogant, but he's a joy to watch and he's what I look for in a superstar (his social missions are incredible. He's a good dude).

UrinalCake
05-16-2019, 10:26 AM
Unlike more folks around here, I like Lebron. He is a whinner and arrogant, but he's a joy to watch.

Through this accidental typo, you may have coined an excellent new term - WHINNER, which describes a player who whines a lot but also wins a lot. Everyone loves to hate a whinner. The Houston Rockets are full of them.

elvis14
05-16-2019, 10:29 AM
Unlike more folks around here, I like Lebron. He is a whinner and arrogant, but he's a joy to watch and he's what I look for in a superstar (his social missions are incredible. He's a good dude).

I agree 100% about LBJ's social missions and I think he's good dude. I'll even add that as a basketball player he's incredible. I always find myself rooting against him. Might be the whine or my tendency to root for the underdog.

I'm glad Zion didn't go to LA. With NY, it was always good on the PR side, bad on the hoops side (they seem like a big bag of idiots). I actually liked the idea of Phx to play with Booker. Their pieces don't fit right now but they are young and could grow or trade for pieces that fit. I really didn't want Zion in Cleveland because if he turns out to be the generational player we all hope he'll be, I don't want him in LBJ's shadow.

I don't know what to think of NOLA. If AD had a change of heart and they had AD, Zion and Jrue (Frank and Jah), I could see it being a good situation. But the AD mess makes it so much less palatable.

I feel bad for RJ, he might end up in NY.

budwom
05-16-2019, 10:33 AM
This big (https://twitter.com/ballislife/status/1128487845461729281?s=21)

yes, something along those lines, he doesn't want to get pushed around in the league.

fuse
05-16-2019, 10:37 AM
For Zion, there are three reasonable outcomes.

1) Drafted by, and play for, New Orleans
2) Drafted by, and traded by New Orleans
3) Other team TBD trades for NO number one pick and drafts Zion

For scenario one, guessing that becomes an audition for free agency to LA, Chicago, or NY for second contract.

Scenario two and three- what are the big market teams willing to do to get Zion?

Troublemaker
05-16-2019, 10:42 AM
I feel bad for RJ, he might end up in NY.

Very briefly. If the Knicks land their free agent targets, RJ will probably be traded for a vet that can help now.

elvis14
05-16-2019, 10:43 AM
For Zion, there are three reasonable outcomes.

1) Drafted by, and play for, New Orleans
2) Drafted by, and traded by New Orleans
3) Other team TBD trades for NO number one pick and drafts Zion

For scenario one, guessing that becomes an audition for free agency to LA, Chicago, or NY for second contract.

Scenario two and three- what are the big market teams willing to do to get Zion?

Zion is going get a HUGE shoe contract. Why would he go to LA, Chi, or NY for his second contract? In LA, he'd be following LBJ. Chi was good when MJ was there. Outside of that time period.....not so much and that was a long time ago. NY has been a dumpster fire for a while and the team seems to be dumb as a bag of hammers. Plus he'd have to live in LA, Chi, or NY (not something I'm a big fan of). He doesn't need a big market to get paid crazy $$. If he could win in NOLA and they built around him properly, he could be a legend there!

flyingdutchdevil
05-16-2019, 10:48 AM
I agree 100% about LBJ's social missions and I think he's good dude. I'll even add that as a basketball player he's incredible. I always find myself rooting against him. Might be the whine or my tendency to root for the underdog.

I'm glad Zion didn't go to LA. With NY, it was always good on the PR side, bad on the hoops side (they seem like a big bag of idiots). I actually liked the idea of Phx to play with Booker. Their pieces don't fit right now but they are young and could grow or trade for pieces that fit. I really didn't want Zion in Cleveland because if he turns out to be the generational player we all hope he'll be, I don't want him in LBJ's shadow.

I don't know what to think of NOLA. If AD had a change of heart and they had AD, Zion and Jrue (Frank and Jah), I could see it being a good situation. But the AD mess makes it so much less palatable.

I feel bad for RJ, he might end up in NY.

This will happen. It's not negotiable. With Ja, the Grizzlies can absolutely go into full rebuild mode by trading Conley. With RJ, they need Conley and the Grizz will be bad but not awful. You're gunning for awful in rebuild mode.

I don't mind RJ with the Knicks. I mind RJ, Durant, and Kyrie with the Knicks. That's 3 players who are alphas, love to shoot, and play mediocre defense. Good luck with that formula.

Matches
05-16-2019, 10:50 AM
Zion is going get a HUGE shoe contract. Why would he go to LA, Chi, or NY for his second contract? In LA, he'd be following LBJ. Chi was good when MJ was there. Outside of that time period....not so much and that was a long time ago. NY has been a dumpster fire for a while and the team seems to be dumb as a bag of hammers. Plus he'd have to live in LA, Chi, or NY (not something I'm a big fan of). He doesn't need a big market to get paid crazy $$. If he could win in NOLA and they built around him properly, he could be a legend there!

Yea there's some truth to this. The size of NOLA's TV market really doesn't matter much. If Zion is big, he will be on TV, period. Regional TV markets aren't really a roadblock to that, any more than the relatively small RDU market limits Duke's national exposure.

Ditto endorsements - he's not going to get less of a shoe deal in NOLA than in NY.

The bigger markets are likely preferable if he has interests outside of basketball. Lebron's move to LA, for example, was probably as much about having a TV show as it was about basketball. There is something to that.

There's also the question of whether the Pelicans are a good franchise, and it's fair to ask. They've had two all-NBA players and both of them asked to be traded. They're not a free agent destination - maybe they would become one with Zion but they didn't with CP3 or AD. I actually think their immediate future is pretty bright with or without AD but I could see a reasonable argument to the contrary.

AustinDevil
05-16-2019, 10:51 AM
Hey, Brevity, ain't cha livin' in Nawlins? Can you offer some local perspective? Are the locals -- at least the sports media version -- ecstatic about the draft lottery and Zion? Or, is life going just on in the Crescent City, just like the other 364 days of the year -- jazz clubs (and funerals), po' boys, red beans and rice, etc.?


I'm not brevity, but I keep one foot in New Orleans. There is a level of excitement that is unmatched by anything other than a Saints Super Bowl run. 2,000 new season-ticket requests came in Tuesday night. Remember that New Orleans only landed the #1 spot at about 7:30 PM CDT on Tuesday.

https://www.theadvocate.com/new_orleans/sports/pelicans/article_adf0aae4-7706-11e9-a711-67c9fc5ae599.html

Meanwhile, Zion's stepdad went on the southern Louisiana ESPN Radio affiliate this morning and emphatically denied that Zion is considering or would consider returning to Duke. He also said that "we" are "excited" about New Orleans/the Pelicans.

Of course, the fact that it's his stepdad saying these things will only feed the narrative that Zion is unhappy, and is now sulking. Not a good look.

https://www.theadvocate.com/new_orleans/sports/pelicans/article_4e49752a-77de-11e9-8349-d7e5c2db161c.html

Steven43
05-16-2019, 10:58 AM
I don't mind RJ with the Knicks. I mind RJ, Durant, and Kyrie with the Knicks. That's 3 players who are alphas, love to shoot, and play mediocre defense. Good luck with that formula.
Essentially agree with what you’re saying except for the part about Durant being a mediocre defender. Durant is a very good defender. I’m not trying to be condescending I’m just honestly wondering if you have been watching Golden State’s games.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.theringer.com/platform/amp/nba/2018/2/13/17005976/kevin-durant-defense-dpoy

Troublemaker
05-16-2019, 11:11 AM
According to ESPN, here's Zion's reaction a few seconds after New Orleans won the lottery (you can hear the TV in the background).

He's laughing along with RJ and Cam (at the surprise, I guess?), but as I expected, he wasn't upset.


SportsCenter‏Verified account @SportsCenter (https://twitter.com/SportsCenter) 17h17 hours ago (https://twitter.com/SportsCenter/status/1128782507816693762)
Here's Zion's reaction when the Pelicans won the No. 1 pick
https://twitter.com/i/videos/1128782507816693762




Here's one of the comments from the ensuing twitter thread:

Come For The Snark‏ @pelotonattacker (https://twitter.com/pelotonattacker) 17h17 hours ago (https://twitter.com/pelotonattacker/status/1128783378277314560)
I'm just shockkkked the media twisted it into he was upset.He looks like he is laughing at the knicks like the rest of us.

elvis14
05-16-2019, 11:22 AM
According to ESPN, here's Zion's reaction a few seconds after New Orleans won the lottery (you can hear the TV in the background).

He's laughing along with RJ and Cam (at the surprise, I guess?), but as I expected, he wasn't upset.


SportsCenter‏Verified account @SportsCenter (https://twitter.com/SportsCenter) 17h17 hours ago (https://twitter.com/SportsCenter/status/1128782507816693762)
Here's Zion's reaction when the Pelicans won the No. 1 pick
https://twitter.com/i/videos/1128782507816693762




Here's one of the comments from the ensuing twitter thread:

Come For The Snark‏ @pelotonattacker (https://twitter.com/pelotonattacker) 17h17 hours ago (https://twitter.com/pelotonattacker/status/1128783378277314560)
I'm just shockkkked the media twisted it into he was upset.He looks like he is laughing at the knicks like the rest of us.



RJ is a big strong player....but Zion just dwarfs him in that video. I still am amazed by the size of this kid (knowing how agile he is).

As for Zion's reaction, it's not negative at all. I wonder how many people would have a more positive reaction if they had chosen a better name for their team. Heck even "Fighting Pelicans" is better than Pelicans. Lions, Tigers, Bears anything cool with some fight it in! :-)

freshmanjs
05-16-2019, 11:37 AM
RJ is a big strong player...but Zion just dwarfs him in that video. I still am amazed by the size of this kid (knowing how agile he is).

As for Zion's reaction, it's not negative at all. I wonder how many people would have a more positive reaction if they had chosen a better name for their team. Heck even "Fighting Pelicans" is better than Pelicans. Lions, Tigers, Bears anything cool with some fight it in! :-)

Jazz would be a good name...

flyingdutchdevil
05-16-2019, 11:39 AM
Jazz would be a good name...

My favorite tweet was "AD for Rudy Gobert and the rights to the Jazz name". Definitely a fair trade IMO.

roywhite
05-16-2019, 12:44 PM
How often does it happen that the big topic after both the NFL and NBA drafts (or at least the draft lottery, in this case) are athletes from the same school?

sagegrouse
05-16-2019, 01:17 PM
How often does it happen that the big topic after both the NFL and NBA drafts (or at least the draft lottery, in this case) are athletes from the same school?

"Duke -- the center of the sports universe." Wait 'till you see what our men's and women's golf team pull off!

Reddevil
05-16-2019, 01:38 PM
The pre lottery coverage showed Zion arriving and hanging out in an Under Armour t-shirt. Do you think he got paid for that, or were the UA execs spilling lemonade on themselves with joy!

AtlDuke72
05-16-2019, 01:43 PM
According to ESPN, here's Zion's reaction a few seconds after New Orleans won the lottery (you can hear the TV in the background).

He's laughing along with RJ and Cam (at the surprise, I guess?), but I'm just shockkkked the media twisted it into he was upset.He looks like he is laughing at the knicks like the rest of us.

You must not have heard that everybody wants to play for either the Knicks or the Lakers. At least that is what the talking heads seem to think. They must be great teams to play for - just look at how successful they have been for the last decade or so.

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
05-16-2019, 02:05 PM
You must not have heard that everybody wants to play for either the Knicks or the Lakers. At least that is what the talking heads seem to think. They must be great teams to play for - just look at how successful they have been for the last decade or so.

It's the Colin Cowherd effect - the narrative that Big Markets are everything in sports. Bleagh.

Steven43
05-16-2019, 02:13 PM
It's the Colin Cowherd effect - the narrative that Big Markets are everything in sports. Bleagh.

Exactly. What are these big markets doing for the vast majority of the players on the Lakers, Clippers, Knicks, Nets, and Bulls? Not much, as far as I can tell.