Tre Jones Returning?!

[DaleDuke7]

Tre Jones just posted a picture of himself with the caption, “Year 2?”

https://www.instagram.com/p/Bv7_OnpHBNd/?utm_source=ig_share_sheet&igshid=xxevt35f43rj

I love this kid.

[proelitedota]

Tre Jones just posted a picture of himself with the caption, “Year 2?”

https://www.instagram.com/p/Bv7_OnpHBNd/?utm_source=ig_share_sheet&igshid=xxevt35f43rj

I love this kid.

Done deal.

[skysdad]

That would be nice to have him back. There's room for RJ Hampton too. It would work.

[Dukehky]

I'm gonna try and not gonna get too fired up about it, because kids are weird. But hard to see Tre post that and then leave...

[BigZ]

It would be a good way to improve his game bc he would need to be a bigger scorers next yesr

[Rich]

Bro Tyus responds, “Write your own story”

[richardjackson199]

I smell hot blueberry pie.

[scottdude8]

Please let this be true. I can’t describe how much of a weight off my shoulders that would be.

That said, nothing’s official until it’s official. I won’t let out that deep breath until I see an official press release from Duke.

[DaleDuke7]

I'm gonna try and not gonna get too fired up about it, because kids are weird. But hard to see Tre post that and then leave...

FWIW, Tyus replied to the post with, “Write your own story! I love you my boy, let’s workkkkk”

Seems pretty legit to me. Pleasant surprise!

[proelitedota]

Tre isn't the kind of person that would troll us like this. Get some optimism people! :rolleyes:

[Bluedog]

That would be nice to have him back. There's room for RJ Hampton too. It would work.

Isn't RJ Hampton 2020? So, Tre and RJH wouldn't overlap next year.

Having said that, LOVE THIS NEWS!! Although not a done deal, obviously coming directly from the player is a heavy suggestion.

[Hartford Dukie]

I was skeptical. I thought Tre would at least test the waters and get evaluated and then decide....if he flat out says, I'm coming back, I'm totally impressed. You da man, Tre!

[wavedukefan70s]

Would be nice.

[dukelifer]

He is clearly looking for opinions. I say yes.

[knicknut]

Fantastic news! Loves Duke and realizes he can improve as a player and a prospect here. I'm all for guys securing themselves financially, but after so many guys erring on the side of declaring in recent years, sometimes to their detriment (Trayvon, Trent, Jackson, arguably Tyus), it's nice to see someone decide to do the work here.

[Dukehky]

https://twitter.com/DraftExpress/status/1114731771160141831

That's from Jonathan Givony. He also pretty much said Duke is getting Matthew Hurt. This looks official. Would be shocked if things went another way. Shocked and heartbroken.

[richardjackson199]

https://twitter.com/DraftExpress/status/1114731771160141831

That's from Jonathan Givony. He also pretty much said Duke is getting Matthew Hurt. This looks official. Would be shocked if things went another way. Shocked and heartbroken.

Boom. 2 great pieces of news reported in the same tweet.

[Kedsy]

Boom. 2 great pieces of news reported in the same tweet.

Yeah, but note that the tweet mentioned Javin back but not Marques. I think we just have to wait and see on everybody until we hear actual news.

[frb]

Yeah, but note that the tweet mentioned Javin back but not Marques. I think we just have to wait and see on everybody until we hear actual news.

Marques not returning making sense. If we play Carey and Hurt at the 5 and 4, where are Bolden's minutes?

[InSpades]

I loved watching Tre play this year and it would be amazing to have him back next year. It's tough to look at his year and think "this guy is ready for the NBA" but I guess things don't always go how they seem. With another year at Duke I think Tre could really work on his playmaking abilities and obviously his shooting which would really compliment his already strong defense. Would obviously be a big boon and cornerstone of the starting lineup next year. Wish him the best whatever he decides but... please come back Tre!

[roywhite]

Marques not returning making sense. If we play Carey and Hurt at the 5 and 4, where are Bolden's minutes?

...somewhere in Europe?

I have no idea actually about Marques's plans and hope he makes a good decision for what seems best for his future.

[sagegrouse]

https://twitter.com/DraftExpress/status/1114731771160141831

That's from Jonathan Givony. He also pretty much said Duke is getting Matthew Hurt. This looks official. Would be shocked if things went another way. Shocked and heartbroken.

Givony favors Hampton over a returning Tre. Maybe, but not me. I'd really like to have two returning starters, versus zero, zip, nada, zilch returning starters this year. And Tre can be a big time player.

I'd also like to see both Marques and Javin return.

[Dukehky]

Marques not returning making sense. If we play Carey and Hurt at the 5 and 4, where are Bolden's minutes?

Personally, I think Bolden is better than Javin and that Hurt will start at the 3. Bolden is on track to graduate this summer, I think, so whatever he decides to do, he has certainly earned.

Givony also didn't mention Baker or AOC, so it's not like he mentioned the entire team.

We'll see though. Having Tre back would certainly be very helpful.

[Wander]

Obviously great for next year's team, but bigger picture I think it's also great to cut off this recent trend of guys leaving after one year and falling completely out of the first round, if not the entire draft.

[proelitedota]

Obviously great for next year's team, but bigger picture I think it's also great to cut off this recent trend of guys leaving after one year and falling completely out of the first round, if not the entire draft.

Well, they can return to school this year if undrafted.

[scottdude8]

Personally, I think Bolden is better than Javin and that Hurt will start at the 3. Bolden is on track to graduate this summer, I think, so whatever he decides to do, he has certainly earned.

Givony also didn't mention Baker or AOC, so it's not like he mentioned the entire team.

We'll see though. Having Tre back would certainly be very helpful.

Didn’t realize that Bolden was on track to graduate. That puts a grad transfer on the table. I want Bolden back, but would also understand if he took that option, especially if Hurt is coming in and he plays a stretch 4 as has been projected. I’d understand that decision but hope that isn’t the case. I want to finally realize the dream we’ve all had of a deep frontcourt next year.

[proelitedota]

Didn’t realize that Bolden was on track to graduate. That puts a grad transfer on the table. I want Bolden back, but would also understand if he took that option, especially if Hurt is coming in and he plays a stretch 4 as has been projected. I’d understand that decision but hope that isn’t the case. I want to finally realize the dream we’ve all had of a deep frontcourt next year.

We had the deepest front courts the past 3 years...

We'll be fine with VCJ, Javin, JRob for the center position.

[JasonEvans]

Let’s all slow our roll. Tre put a question mark after “year two” and it is a picture of him shrugging. He clearly has not decided anything. I just don’t want Duke fans to feel betrayed if he decides to turn pro.

That said, I agree with folks who say a post like that makes it feel like he is leaning toward coming back as he knows it will break our hearts for him to do that and then leave. I don’t think he is 100% to retune, but the odds look VERY favorable for Duke at the moment.

-Jason “if he returns, we are for sure preseason top ten, maybe top five” Evans

[richardjackson199]

Let’s all slow our roll. Tre put a question mark after “year two” and it is a picture of him shrugging. He clearly has not decided anything. I just don’t want Duke fans to feel betrayed if he decides to turn pro.

That said, I agree with folks who say a post like that makes it feel like he is leaning toward coming back as he knows it will break our hearts for him to do that and then leave. I don’t think he is 100% to retune, but the odds look VERY favorable for Duke at the moment.

-Jason “if he returns, we are for sure preseason top ten, maybe top five” Evans

Givony said it's likely to become official soon. I feel pretty good about it.

But we'll see. :cool:

[proelitedota]

Let’s all slow our roll. Tre put a question mark after “year two” and it is a picture of him shrugging. He clearly has not decided anything. I just don’t want Duke fans to feel betrayed if he decides to turn pro.

That said, I agree with folks who say a post like that makes it feel like he is leaning toward coming back as he knows it will break our hearts for him to do that and then leave. I don’t think he is 100% to retune, but the odds look VERY favorable for Duke at the moment.

-Jason “if he returns, we are for sure preseason top ten, maybe top five” Evans

This would go down as the worst troll ever by a Duke player if he leaves... No way he is not returning.

[Troublemaker]

Personally, I think Bolden is better than Javin and that Hurt will start at the 3. Bolden is on track to graduate this summer, I think, so whatever he decides to do, he has certainly earned.

Givony also didn't mention Baker or AOC, so it's not like he mentioned the entire team.

We'll see though. Having Tre back would certainly be very helpful.

I disagree on the first part but even if it were true in a vacuum, the fact is Vernon Carey Jr exists and it's really hard to envision him and Marques playing together.

On the second part (Hurt playing the 3), you might end up being right for the wrong reason. Javin could start at the 4; remember, he's mobile (heck, Coach K played him at the 3 at times in 2018), should be a two-time captain, and is vocal on the court. I've always sensed that Coach K loves Javin but unfortunately, Javin fouls too much to play 30+ minutes. Perhaps that changes as a senior. Likewise, if Jack stops being scared to shoot, he could be a factor to start as well.

Basically, many people in the offseason will automatically slot in Wendell at SF and Hurt at PF. While that's certainly sensible and very possible, when push comes to shove, will Coach K trust AOC to start over (two-time captains and seniors) Javin and Jack?

[Dub]

Hopeful news on Tre. Dare I say the “deepest” team Duke has had in memory assuming Hurt commits. Tons of lineup possibilities with lots of returning experience. Could be a pipe dream but it could happen...

Tre, JG, Boogie, Wendell, AOC, JBake, Hurt, Jack White, Javin, Mt. Vernon, Bolden

[Dukehk]

Goldwire also just put up a post with year 2 as the caption. Tre Jones also commented on it with a “fingers crossed” emoji.

https://www.instagram.com/p/Bv7C6FuH0wy/?utm_source=ig_share_sheet&igshid=lm4t0a6cbzjo

All signs point to Tre staying at least another year. I wouldn’t be surprised if he takes the Grayson Allen route and graduates. The boy loves Duke and will eventually have his jersey retired here. Along with a national championship of course!!!

[frb]

I disagree on the first part but even if it were true in a vacuum, the fact is Vernon Carey Jr exists and it's really hard to envision him and Marques playing together.

On the second part (Hurt playing the 3), you might end up being right for the wrong reason. Javin could start at the 4; remember, he's mobile (heck, Coach K played him at the 3 at times in 2018), should be a two-time captain, and is vocal on the court. I've always sensed that Coach K loves Javin but unfortunately, Javin fouls too much to play 30+ minutes. Perhaps that changes as a senior. Likewise, if Jack stops being scared to shoot, he could be a factor to start as well.

Basically, many people in the offseason will automatically slot in Wendell at SF and Hurt at PF. While that's certainly sensible and very possible, when push comes to shove, will Coach K trust AOC to start over (two-time captains and seniors) Javin and Jack?

Jack White will not start. We have real problems if he's a starter. I think it would be Tre/Boogie/Moore/Hurt/Carey with Alex O, Joey Baker and DeLaurier off the bench. I think Joey surpasses Jack. I don't think K wants 2 big men on the court a lot. We're not gonna have 2 score at will kids next season like Zion and RJ. Spacing and passing will be so important. Carey and Hurt would be all you'd need in the front court. Not Carey and another traditional big. Not good for spacing- stretching the defense. I think it's just the way basketball has changed. You have a Center and then you have a 4 man who is more like a 3.

[Dukehk]

Seems like RJ Hampton was waiting on Tre’s decision.

If he does decide to reclassify to this year we might not get him. Hopefully he decides to come in 2020.

https://www.newsobserver.com/sports/article228933129.html

[WHOneedsSOX]

Awesome news! He's a great kid and would love to have him back. Hope Hampton comes too but I wouldn't bet on it if Jones does indeed come back.

[DUKIE V(A)]

Here is the roster I am hoping for (my guess is the Hampton is the most unlikely given that Tre returns in this scenario):

CG - Combo Guard

PG Tre Jones (So)
CG R.J. Hampton (Fr)
CG Ellis (Fr)
CG Goldwire (Jr)
SG O’Connell (Jr)
CG Buckmire (Jr)-walk on
F Moore (Fr)
F White (Sr)
F Baker (So)
F Robinson (Sr)
PF Hurt (Fr)
PF/C Delaurier (Sr)
PF/C Carey, Jr. (Fr)
C Bolden (Sr)

Redshirt - Coach K’s Grandson (making it more likely we keep Coach K at the helm for 5 more years)

This gives the team incredible depth at every position and protects us in case of injury. If Hampton does not come, I think we ought to consider looking into a transfer at guard to add another shooter. I know some are going to attack my ideal roster as unlikely given Coach K’s penchant for playing 7 or 8 guys. Plus, indications are that Hampton wants the ball in his hands from Day 1 and this is not going to happen with Tre returning. However, I would counter that Hampton, Boogie, and Tre complement one another nicely and you can never have enough guards. Plus, Coach K has shown the ability to adapt (playing zone in 2015) when necessary and playing a deeper lineup may be another new way of playing.

[fgb]

Jack I think it would be Tre/Boogie/Moore/Hurt/Carey with Alex O, Joey Baker and DeLaurier off the bench.

I'd think O'Connell would start ahead of Boogie.

[DUKIE V(A)]

I'd think O'Connell would start ahead of Boogie.

It will be interesting to see how much AOC improves between now and next season. Without considerable improvement in the areas of strength and defense especially, I do not view him as a starter.

[ChillinDuke]

It's pretty hard to read this as anything other than he's returning, which is obviously fantastic news and makes me extremely excited for next year!!!

I'll try to temper these emotions but kinda hard to with a post like that.

- Chillin

[subzero02]

It's pretty hard to read this as anything other than he's returning, which is obviously fantastic news and makes me extremely excited for next year!!!

I'll try to temper these emotions but kinda hard to with a post like that.

- Chillin

Tre seems like a great kid and he obviously has loved duke for quite some time. If he doesn't return, his instragam post will live in infamy. I'll be shocked if he doesn't come back.

[budwom]

positive indication by Tre, but seems a bit premature to take this as a done deal.

[Kedsy]

Goldwire also just put up a post with year 2 as the caption. Tre Jones also commented on it with a “fingers crossed” emoji.

https://www.instagram.com/p/Bv7C6FuH0wy/?utm_source=ig_share_sheet&igshid=lm4t0a6cbzjo

Here's what I don't get: why would Tre say "fingers crossed" when the decision is entirely up to him? We're missing something, I think.

[flyingdutchdevil]

Here's what I don't get: why would Tre say "fingers crossed" when the decision is entirely up to him? We're missing something, I think.

Maybe because he’s a 19 year old kid? If you “get” his intentions, you’d be a world famous psycologist.

[Dukebasketball2020]

Not sure why people think if Tre comes back then RJ Hampton doesn't come here? Why can't K sell RJ on playing the 2 and also some of the 1? RJ is listed as a CG at 6'5. Tre didn't even have the ball in his hands a lot of times this year as goldwire would bring it up when he was in with Tre sometimes and so would Barrett.

[uh_no]

Tre seems like a great kid and he obviously has loved duke for quite some time. If he doesn't return, his instragam post will live in infamy. I'll be shocked if he doesn't come back.

he needs to work on his shot. 25% and on the shorter side isn't going to cut it for a guard in the NBA. Will another year of game time increase his draft stock and the potential for a bigger second contract? I have to think yes. I don't think he'd ride the bench as much as duval has, but i think he can be a lot better than that with another year of work.

Duke has a lot of guys in the league who would have been well served by another year.

[sagegrouse]

Jack White will not start. We have real problems if he's a starter. I think it would be Tre/Boogie/Moore/Hurt/Carey with Alex O, Joey Baker and DeLaurier off the bench. I think Joey surpasses Jack. I don't think K wants 2 big men on the court a lot. We're not gonna have 2 score at will kids next season like Zion and RJ. Spacing and passing will be so important. Carey and Hurt would be all you'd need in the front court. Not Carey and another traditional big. Not good for spacing- stretching the defense. I think it's just the way basketball has changed. You have a Center and then you have a 4 man who is more like a 3.

As the old Purdue coach Gene Keady said in a different context, "Sometimes it's about which team is making its shots." We didn't live by the three this year -- except in Charlottesville; we kept trying to die by the three. If Jack White, who seems to make everything in pre-game warm-ups, is a consistent three-point shooter, he will play a lot. Same goes for Alex O'Connell and Joey Baker. You mean there's not room for all three on the court at the same time? If they are all shooting 50 percent from three-point territory, we will make room. Moreover, White is a tough defender with a nose for the ball on rebounds.

[weezie]

Wow. Needed a bit of better news after the porn lawyer's depth charge.

[Saratoga2]

As the old Purdue coach Gene Keady said in a different context, "Sometimes it's about which team is making its shots." We didn't live by the three this year -- except in Charlottesville; we kept trying to die by the three. If Jack White, who seems to make everything in pre-game warm-ups, is a consistent three-point shooter, he will play a lot. Same goes for Alex O'Connell and Joey Baker. You mean there's not room for all three on the court at the same time? If they are all shooting 50 percent from three-point territory, we will make room. Moreover, White is a tough defender with a nose for the ball on rebounds.

I am hopeful that we can have guards next year who are a threat from outside and have the quickness to get by their defenders to both score and to draw defenders, allowing for dish outs and feeds to others. tre was the closest we had to that this year but has to develop his outside shot to allow more blow by opportunities. If he is back, he has the summer to work on his shot.

Jordan has been a defensive specialist and has even less of an outside shot than Tre but might develop over the summer. I wouldn't count on it but it is a possibiliity.

Boogie is our best hope for a combo guard who can handle some PG responsibilies. His shot form is good if it translates to DIV 1. Alex O'Connell also has a lot of characteristics to play the SG but probably not the PG role. His basketball IQ seems to be behind that of Tre.

Jack White has no ability to create his own shot so will remain valuable as a tough and smart defensive player who may his occasional shots when set up by others.

All that to say we will probaably rely on Tre and one of Alex or Boogie to be ourprimary guards next season. No so bad.

[skysdad]

Isn't RJ Hampton 2020? So, Tre and RJH wouldn't overlap next year.

Having said that, LOVE THIS NEWS!! Although not a done deal, obviously coming directly from the player is a heavy suggestion.

I've heard that RJ may reclassify.

[dukelifer]

Here's what I don't get: why would Tre say "fingers crossed" when the decision is entirely up to him? We're missing something, I think.

Maybe this is all about Zion staying one more year- or maybe the whole gang? One can dream.

[BlueDevil16]

Why did Goldwire post Year 2? It would be Year 3 for him.

[DavidBenAkiva]

This is very encouraging news. Duke has had serious questions about point guard play for a loooooooooooooooooong time. Grayson Allen was the de-facto point guard for the better part of three seasons. Before that, it's been since 2013-14 since Duke had its incumbent point guard return the following season. Yes, Quinn Cook did return for his senior season in 2014-15, but he moved off the ball to accommodate Tyus Jones. Before that, it was Greg Paulus in 2007-08.

The biggest impact of all of this, in my mind, is that it positions Duke to come in with at least a solid defensive team in 2019-20. Scoring has rarely been the issue for Duke during Coach K's tenure. The team has had its greatest success when it could stop opposing teams from scoring. Jones can pressure the ball all on his own, making the job of everyone else that much easier. We don't know what we are going to get from the freshman, but we do know that we can expect solid defense at the point of attack. If Vernon Carey, Jr., Wendell Moore, and - hopefully - Matthew Hurt can offer at least average defense, Duke will be in good shape. And if things are not going well with Carey at the center or forward position, Coach K can come in with some combination of the seniors Bolden (if he returns), DeLaurier, and White when Duke needs a stop.

[fgb]

I've heard that RJ may reclassify.

all the talk about hampton reclassifying sort of points to something that makes is seem like we've reached a "jumping the shark" moment, in regards to top recruits and the way they view the college experience. i mean, if the rumors are true, and hampton is waiting on tre's decision in order to decide whether or not to reclassify, then there is an inherent absurdity in there worth pointing out. hampton, understandably, wants to be the starting pg on his college team. that said, explain why, were jones to stay, hampton would prefer to play one more year in high school before playing one year at duke, rather than reclassify and play both those years at duke--one year with tre, and a second year as the team's starting pg? there may be a universe in which a final year of high school competition would be better for his development that an additional year playing for k, in the acc, but it ain't the one we're living in. it seems that we've reached a point where top players have become so intent on only staying in college for one year, that they prefer a 5th year of high school to a 2nd year of college. crazy.

[fgb]

it just seems the stigma of not being a one-and-done has become it's own set of blinders for these kids, to their own detriment. which just seems a shame to me--a loss for us as fans, and for the kids as players.

[fgb]

that said, it's refreshing to see a player like tre seriously consider staying a second year. obviously, a fan, it makes me personally happy. but on a deeper level, it just makes me happy for the kid...one of the things i'll be really looking forward to watching next year, if tre does decide to stick around, is watching him really come into his own as a leader without the pressure of being part of a superclass.

i've been thinking a lot lately about trent, jr--he would have clearly been a beautiful fit for this year's team. no way to know what might have been, but it's obvious how much we could have used his shooting ability this season. apart from that, though, i think what it could have meant for his own development as a player--he was a second round pick, who averaged a bit over 4 minutes per game this season in the nba, scoring under 2ppg. hard not to believe he wouldn't have played himself into a mid 2nd rounder, at least. more money, guaranteed contract, more minutes in the on the floor at the next level.

[arnie]

that said, it's refreshing to see a player like tre seriously consider staying a second year. obviously, a fan, it makes me personally happy. but on a deeper level, it just makes me happy for the kid...one of the things i'll be really looking forward to watching next year, if tre does decide to stick around, is watching him really come into his own as a leader without the pressure of being part of a superclass.

i've been thinking a lot lately about trent, jr--he would have clearly been a beautiful fit for this year's team. no way to know what might have been, but it's obvious how much we could have used his shooting ability this season. apart from that, though, i think what it could have meant for his own development as a player--he was a second round pick, who averaged a bit over 4 minutes per game this season in the nba, scoring under 2ppg. hard not to believe he wouldn't have played himself into a mid 2nd rounder, at least. more money, guaranteed contract, more minutes in the on the floor at the next level.

Totally agree. If Trent washes out of the league after this contract; no one outside of a few Duke fans will even remember him. Had he stayed and helped Duke at least advance to Final 4 his “brand” improves dramatically. I’m sure he’ll do well overseas (and he might play longer in NBA); but his 15 minutes looks long gone.

[HereBeforeCoachK]

Totally agree. If Trent washes out of the league after this contract; no one outside of a few Duke fans will even remember him. Had he stayed and helped Duke at least advance to Final 4 his “brand” improves dramatically. I’m sure he’ll do well overseas (and he might play longer in NBA); but his 15 minutes looks long gone.

Trent: one year at Duke, disappointing ending, pro career, as far as NBA is concerned, in question.
Quin Cook: four years at Duke, magical ending, one of all time favorites, NBA career headed in right direction.

Hmmmm

[uh_no]

Trent: one year at Duke, disappointing ending, pro career, as far as NBA is concerned, in question.
Quin Cook: four years at Duke, magical ending, one of all time favorites, NBA career headed in right direction.

Hmmmm

Nolan Smith vs tatum. you can't cherry pick.

[HereBeforeCoachK]

Nolan Smith vs tatum. you can't cherry pick.

First of all, to pose a question (I did NOT attempt definitive statement) - cherry picking is fine.
Second, hard to say with certainty about Nolan Smith. Those were very very very different times than today.

[hallcity]

Steve Wiseman at the N&O is reporting that the Instagram post means what we think it means, Tre Jones is likely to be back next season.

[richardjackson199]

Maybe this is all about Zion staying one more year- or maybe the whole gang? One can dream.

Um... no. :cool:

[rsvman]

Why did Goldwire post Year 2? It would be Year 3 for him.

Because he needs to stay to work on his math?

[jimsumner]

Not sure why people think if Tre comes back then RJ Hampton doesn't come here? Why can't K sell RJ on playing the 2 and also some of the 1? RJ is listed as a CG at 6'5. Tre didn't even have the ball in his hands a lot of times this year as goldwire would bring it up when he was in with Tre sometimes and so would Barrett.

Because Hampton is a likely OAD who wants to have the ball in his hand in his one year in college.

[JNort]

Nolan Smith vs tatum. you can't cherry pick.

Idk that seems to actually favor what he was saying. Nolan wasn't on anyone's radar after his first or even 2nd year at Duke. It wasn't until he exploded his Jr season when NBA talks started. If he left early he doesn't get drafted, probably never makes an NBA roster and he never gets his shot. He came back and improved his game enough to be drafted mid/late 1st round and earn himself some money.

[nmduke2001]

This article makes it seem clear that Hampton will not come if Tre stays
https://www.zagsblog.com/2019/04/07/tre-jones-hints-at-return-to-duke-could-have-domino-effect-on-r-j-hampton/

Comments from his dad indicate that they “won’t sit and learn”

[UrinalCake]

^ it sounds like Hampton is still undecided on whether to reclassify to begin with. So if Tre comes back, it could me Hampton reclassifies and goes to another school OR it could mean he stays in 2020 and comes to Duke then.

Regardless, I would gladly take a sophomore Jones over a reclassified Hampton next season. And if it means we get Hampton in 2020, all the more better.

[freshmanjs]

all the talk about hampton reclassifying sort of points to something that makes is seem like we've reached a "jumping the shark" moment, in regards to top recruits and the way they view the college experience. i mean, if the rumors are true, and hampton is waiting on tre's decision in order to decide whether or not to reclassify, then there is an inherent absurdity in there worth pointing out. hampton, understandably, wants to be the starting pg on his college team. that said, explain why, were jones to stay, hampton would prefer to play one more year in high school before playing one year at duke, rather than reclassify and play both those years at duke--one year with tre, and a second year as the team's starting pg? there may be a universe in which a final year of high school competition would be better for his development that an additional year playing for k, in the acc, but it ain't the one we're living in. it seems that we've reached a point where top players have become so intent on only staying in college for one year, that they prefer a 5th year of high school to a 2nd year of college. crazy.

Isn't that a completely false choice? He can reclassify and go to a program where he can start now. It's not like Duke now and Duke later are the only good options he has.

[Steven43]

Maybe this is all about Zion staying one more year- or maybe the whole gang? One can dream.

I think it’s best for R.J. Barrett to go pro. His game is more suited to the NBA than to college basketball at Duke. I look forward to Duke getting back to spreading the ball and the shots around, making smart and effective passes, and not driving to the basket 1-on-3 or even 1-on-4, which we saw more times this season than in the last 10 seasons combined. I wish R.J. all the best and I’ll always be rooting for him wherever he goes. I just don’t think it was a good on-court stylistic fit for Duke Basketball.

[CameronBornAndBred]

This article makes it seem clear that Hampton will not come if Tre stays
https://www.zagsblog.com/2019/04/07/tre-jones-hints-at-return-to-duke-could-have-domino-effect-on-r-j-hampton/

Comments from his dad indicate that they “won’t sit and learn”

I'll take a 5 star player with a year in a Duke jersey under his belt over a 5 star player with nothing but expectations (including the expectation to be gone after one season) any day.

Edit...UC said it better than me.

[killerleft]

^ it sounds like Hampton is still undecided on whether to reclassify to begin with. So if Tre comes back, it could me Hampton reclassifies and goes to another school OR it could mean he stays in 2020 and comes to Duke then.

Regardless, I would gladly take a sophomore Jones over a reclassified Hampton next season. And if it means we get Hampton in 2020, all the more better.

Amen to more Tre Jones. Let Hampton decide as he will.

[Dukehk]

This article makes it seem clear that Hampton will not come if Tre stays
https://www.zagsblog.com/2019/04/07/tre-jones-hints-at-return-to-duke-could-have-domino-effect-on-r-j-hampton/

Comments from his dad indicate that they “won’t sit and learn”

I wish his dad would realise that his son might be the missing piece of a national title winning squad. Coach K always has two ball handlers on his championship teams. RJ and Tre would make an incredible backcourt.

[KandG]

I wish his dad would realise that his son might be the missing piece of a national title winning squad. Coach K always has two ball handlers on his championship teams. RJ and Tre would make an incredible backcourt.

If the article being referenced in this thread is any indication, don't think that Hampton and his father are wired that way, and attempting to persuade them differently will cause more problems long term than it's worth.

K made a cryptic comment last season about the involvement of players' parents, and I get the sense that he'd be ambivalent about promising too much to someone like Hampton given the expectations (and possible micromanaging) of his father.

[proelitedota]

I wish his dad would realise that his son might be the missing piece of a national title winning squad. Coach K always has two ball handlers on his championship teams. RJ and Tre would make an incredible backcourt.

Boogie Ellis will be the 2nd ball handler. He just needs some weight to be effective at the D1 level.

[mattman91]

Boogie Ellis will be the 2nd ball handler. He just needs some weight to be effective at the D1 level.

Sounds like a pie bet waiting to happen.

[Troublemaker]

Jack White will not start. We have real problems if he's a starter. I think it would be Tre/Boogie/Moore/Hurt/Carey with Alex O, Joey Baker and DeLaurier off the bench. I think Joey surpasses Jack. I don't think K wants 2 big men on the court a lot. We're not gonna have 2 score at will kids next season like Zion and RJ. Spacing and passing will be so important. Carey and Hurt would be all you'd need in the front court. Not Carey and another traditional big. Not good for spacing- stretching the defense. I think it's just the way basketball has changed. You have a Center and then you have a 4 man who is more like a 3.

Jack was playing starters' minutes earlier in the season. The big question is whether he can recapture that level of play as a senior. If he does, then it's possible he and Hurt will be "positionless" forwards in the starting lineup, with neither being purely a SF or a PF. But like I said, my bet on 5th starter is Javin at this point.


Boogie Ellis will be the 2nd ball handler. He just needs some weight to be effective at the D1 level.

Boogie won't be good enough as a freshman, imo. Tre and Wendell will be the primary ball-handlers on the perimeter, but we'll also create through Hurt in the high post, and Vernon can create as a face up big or possibly back-to-basket, too. Like this season, we won't lack for creation.

[lotusland]

This article makes it seem clear that Hampton will not come if Tre stays
https://www.zagsblog.com/2019/04/07/tre-jones-hints-at-return-to-duke-could-have-domino-effect-on-r-j-hampton/

Comments from his dad indicate that they “won’t sit and learn”

I would have taken sophomore Frank Jackson over Duval and I will be even happier with Sophmore Tre Jones. Good luck to RJ wherever he ends up. Next years freshman will be less talented than this years. We need some experience to balance the youth. Hurt will be nice to have but not essential. Bolden, Jav, Jack, AOC, JGold and Baker, along with Tre, provide a lot of tools and experience to work with. Add Vernon Carey and Moore and it’s going to be a very good team and, in particular, a very good defensive team.

[BeachBlueDevil]

Last time we had a guard reclassify and come who also had a very involved father (& uncle) it didn't end well. All this talk about Hampton and his father being quoted more than his son doesn't put a good taste in my mouth. I'd rather have Tre stay than Hampton come.

Should Tre stay I hope he and Goldwire both improve their shooting. Because Goldwire coming off the bench to spell Tre and Boogie with that defense and a shot would be a real strong backcourt.

[Troublemaker]

I would have taken sophomore Frank Jackson over Duval and I will be even happier with Sophmore Tre Jones. Good luck to RJ wherever he ends up. Next years freshman will be less talented than this years. We need some experience to balance the youth. Hurt will be nice to have but not essential. Bolden, Jav, Jack, AOC, JGold and Baker, along with Tre, provide a lot of tools and experience to work with. Add Vernon Carey and Moore and it’s going to be a very good team and, in particular, a very good defensive team.

Hurt is essential. I will not watch another Duke basketball team that doesn't have spacing next season; Coach K just doesn't make it aesthetically pleasing enough to watch. Opponents just clog the lanes, and it becomes ugly offense. Note: very few coaches *could* run an aesthetically pleasing offense with 0 shooters in the starting lineup. Sub-note: No team has ever gone to the Final Four (much less win it all) shooting as poorly as Duke did this season. The fact that we came so close was arguably over-achievement.

[-jk]

Hurt is essential. I will not watch another Duke basketball team that doesn't have spacing next season; Coach K just doesn't make it aesthetically pleasing enough to watch. Opponents just clog the lanes, and it becomes ugly offense. Note: very few coaches *could* run an aesthetically pleasing offense with 0 shooters in the starting lineup.

We had shooters this year.

Outside shooting? Very different question; very weird year that way.

-jk

[Steven43]

We had shooters this year.

Outside shooting? Very different question; very weird year that way.

-jk

I think 99.999999% of basketball fans who use the term “shooter” are thinking of jumpshots, not close-in shots around the basket. JJ Redick is a shooter; Marques Bolden is not. Just a tiny quibble, nothing serious.

[fgb]

Comments from his dad indicate that they “won’t sit and learn”

better not to learn, then?

[-jk]

I think 99.999999% of basketball fans who use the term “shooter” are thinking of jumpshots, not close-in shots around the basket. JJ Redick is a shooter; Marques Bolden is not. Just a tiny quibble, nothing serious.

Javin had a nice streak going, and he wasn't shooting from deep!

-jk

[fgb]

Isn't that a completely false choice? He can reclassify and go to a program where he can start now. It's not like Duke now and Duke later are the only good options he has.

in a vacuum, it would be a false choice. which is why I prefaced with, "if the rumors are true, and hampton is waiting on tre's decision in order to decide whether or not to reclassify...".

[szstark]

I think it’s best for R.J. Barrett to go pro. His game is more suited to the NBA than to college basketball at Duke. I look forward to Duke getting back to spreading the ball and the shots around, making smart and effective passes, and not driving to the basket 1-on-3 or even 1-on-4, which we saw more times this season than in the last 10 seasons combined. I wish R.J. all the best and I’ll always be rooting for him wherever he goes. I just don’t think it was a good on-court stylistic fit for Duke Basketball.

You must be forgetting the year we had Austin Rivers. I swear there were times he would go 1-on-9; 1-on-12 if you counted the refs.

[rsvman]

better not to learn, then?

Ha! Good one.

Pretty sure he means better not to sit. ;)

[sagegrouse]

Last time we had a guard reclassify and come who also had a very involved father (& uncle) it didn't end well.

For anyone. Not for Duke, for Derryck, nor for father and uncle

[godins]

I’ll add with respect to RJ Hampton — I took about a half hour last night to watch a few of his highlight videos. Boy, does he have personality and a big game to back it up.

I’ve never seen a high school player jaw that much on the floor, though, and it gives me pause. Granted, these are just snippets of the actual games, but RJ actively baits opponents and the crowd with gestures and trash talk. YMMV, but I didn’t like what I saw.

Sophomore Tre Jones is just what this team needs.

[CameronBornAndBred]

I’ll add with respect to RJ Hampton — I took about a half hour last night to watch a few of his highlight videos. Boy, does he have personality and a big game to back it up.

I’ve never seen a high school player jaw that much on the floor, though, and it gives me pause. Granted, these are just snippets of the actual games, but RJ actively baits opponents and the crowd with gestures and trash talk. YMMV, but I didn’t like what I saw.

Sophomore Tre Jones is just what this team needs.

If we want a new Most Hated...he has to stay for four years. It's in the rule book.

[Steven43]

You must be forgetting the year we had Austin Rivers. I swear there were times he would go 1-on-9; 1-on-12 if you counted the refs.

Oh yeah, you’re right; I wasn’t thinking about Rivers. His version of hero ball would involve him having the ball outside the 3-pt. line where he would proceed to dribble in place for a few seconds, blow by his man and go STRAIGHT AT THE BASKET — without guile, without shiftiness, without any change of direction or speed and without even the THOUGHT of passing to a teammate — with one, two, or even three much bigger players just standing there waiting for him. Invariable he would end up throwing up an off-balance without-a-prayer-of-going-in “shot” off the backboard that the defense would then rebound and start a 5-on-4 fastbreak (with Rivers trailing waaaay behind) that would often lead to a great shot for the opposing team. Rivers did this again and again and again throughout the entire season. It used to drive me absolutely insane.

[dukelion]

Getting more official!!!!


https://abc11.com/sports/tre-jones-to-return-to-duke-source-say/5237685/

[DavidBenAkiva]

Trent: one year at Duke, disappointing ending, pro career, as far as NBA is concerned, in question.
Quin Cook: four years at Duke, magical ending, one of all time favorites, NBA career headed in right direction.

Hmmmm

It's waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too early to suggest that Trent's career is heading in the wrong direction. For one, Trent has out-earned Cook's first 2 years in the NBA by a factor of 3 to 1. The two will have similar salaries next season. Second, some rookies don't play many minutes on contending teams. Trent has 3 years guaranteed. He's going to get playing time in the NBA. Frank Jackson didn't play a single game his rookie year but is starting to get some serious minutes now that he is healthy. Anferne Simons, drafted ahead of Trent by the Trailblazers, has played fewer games as a rookie. If Trent isn't getting minutes during his 3rd year, then things are heading in the wrong direction for him.

[devilnfla]

I think the biggest upside of Tre returning is the defensive pressure he is able to apply. That alone will help our incoming freshman adjust on the defensive end.

[Steven43]

It's waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too early to suggest that Trent's career is heading in the wrong direction.
I think you needed one more “a”.

[proelitedota]

I had a pie bet with someone over Tre returning. Time to collect on my winnings...

[uh_no]

It's waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too early to suggest that Trent's career is heading in the wrong direction. For one, Trent has out-earned Cook's first 2 years in the NBA by a factor of 3 to 1. The two will have similar salaries next season. Second, some rookies don't play many minutes on contending teams. Trent has 3 years guaranteed. He's going to get playing time in the NBA. Frank Jackson didn't play a single game his rookie year but is starting to get some serious minutes now that he is healthy. Anferne Simons, drafted ahead of Trent by the Trailblazers, has played fewer games as a rookie. If Trent isn't getting minutes during his 3rd year, then things are heading in the wrong direction for him.

I think that Trevon Duval would be the better comparison at this point, given he's getting zilch run, and right now it's not looking promising. He was dropped by the bucks 2 weeks ago. Not that I'm sure I would have welcomed him back for another season, but i'm not sure going un-drafted and getting cut is how he imagined his first year in the league to go. The Trent case is far more borderline. I think it could have gone either way...given we have no alternate universe, there's no way to know....but I don't think it's fair to say that he would have been better off for sure taking another year. As you point out, he's 3 years ahead of Cook in earnings and the real tell will be what his second contract is.

[Wander]

I think 99.999999% of basketball fans who use the term “shooter” are thinking of jumpshots, not close-in shots around the basket. JJ Redick is a shooter; Marques Bolden is not. Just a tiny quibble, nothing serious.

My god, thank you for saying this. One of the most annoying memes of this season was when someone would remark on our poor shooting, and some other #wellactually guy would come along with a "nO wE aRe vEry GoOd at sHoOtInG tWoS" nonsense.

[kAzE]

I’ll add with respect to RJ Hampton — I took about a half hour last night to watch a few of his highlight videos. Boy, does he have personality and a big game to back it up.

I’ve never seen a high school player jaw that much on the floor, though, and it gives me pause. Granted, these are just snippets of the actual games, but RJ actively baits opponents and the crowd with gestures and trash talk. YMMV, but I didn’t like what I saw.

Sophomore Tre Jones is just what this team needs.

I've watched some RJ film and I got the same vibe as well, but holy mackerel the kid has game (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Ol-MTNqQt8). He's an unbelievable athlete and his scoring ability is off the charts. Totally different player than Tre, and in my opinion, would actually be very capable of playing along side Tre in the RJ Barrett role.

If I had to choose one, it would be Tre, but I'm hoping the stakeholders involved can see a way for them to co-exist. We've been very successful with 2 point guard teams in the past, and Tre isn't exactly a ball dominant player (and we don't have tons of other playmakers next year, either), so RJ would be able to handle the rock plenty.

[Dukehky]

I don't think Hampton is gonna be at Duke in 2019. I hope that he stays in 2020 to give us a chance at him next year. His dad has said repeatedly that RJ wants to be the point guard. That's not going to happen with Tre on the team.

Would not be shocked to see Memphis in 2019 though, unfortunately.

[SavDukeGrad]

FWIW, Tre is at home right now. They just showed him and his Mom at the Timberwolves game. Tyus is sponsoring a cancer fundraiser during the Min/ OKC game honoring his Mom, and there is a big Jones contingent in attendance

[lotusland]

Hurt is essential. I will not watch another Duke basketball team that doesn't have spacing next season; Coach K just doesn't make it aesthetically pleasing enough to watch. Opponents just clog the lanes, and it becomes ugly offense. Note: very few coaches *could* run an aesthetically pleasing offense with 0 shooters in the starting lineup. Sub-note: No team has ever gone to the Final Four (much less win it all) shooting as poorly as Duke did this season. The fact that we came so close was arguably over-achievement.

Jack and possibly Baker can play stretch 4. Jack can definitely defend the 4 so he just needs his shot to return in order to stretch the Defense. I don’t get the feeling that Hurt will be a lock down defender so we’re really just talking about shooting. We basically need a 3 shooters on the court when the drivers drive and, hopefully, no one left unguarded. Hurt would be nice to have but I’m hoping for a max of 2 freshman starters. If it’s Carey and Moore with Tre at PG, Duke will be a very good team. Jav, Bolden, Jack and JGold are all good defenders. 1 or more need to start. Defense is going to win the championship this year and probably next year too. Carey, Hurt, Moore, Hampton and Ellis might make up
A number one recruiting class but they would have been man-handled by UVA, Purdue, UK, Tennessee and Texas Tech among others this year. I don’t expect it to happen but I would rather have Hurt start and Carey come off the bench considering how well Jav and Bolden are defending now. I don’t expect Carey to switch on guards. The Hoos might light him up.

[godins]

I don't think Hampton is gonna be at Duke in 2019. I hope that he stays in 2020 to give us a chance at him next year. His dad has said repeatedly that RJ wants to be the point guard. That's not going to happen with Tre on the team.

Would not be shocked to see Memphis in 2019 though, unfortunately.

My armchair - and totally uninformed - opinion is that Hampton reclassifies and goes elsewhere. He already fancies himself an impact player on the college level. With Jones coming back this year, what certainty does Hampton have that Jones won't come back again in 2020?

Agreed with others that Jones/Hampton's games could co-exist. I think it's their (re: Hampton's) personalities that wouldn't.

[Dukehky]

Jack and possibly Baker can play stretch 4. Jack can definitely defend the 4 so he just needs his shot to return in order to stretch the Defense. I don’t get the feeling that Hurt will be a lock down defender so we’re really just talking about shooting. We basically need a 3 shooters on the court when the drivers drive and, hopefully, no one left unguarded. Hurt would be nice to have but I’m hoping for a max of 2 freshman starters. If it’s Carey and Moore with Tre at PG, Duke will be a very good team. Jav, Bolden, Jack and JGold are all good defenders. 1 or more need to start. Defense is going to win the championship this year and probably next year too. Carey, Hurt, Moore, Hampton and Ellis might make up
A number one recruiting class but they would have been man-handled by UVA, Purdue, UK, Tennessee and Texas Tech among others this year. I don’t expect it to happen but I would rather have Hurt start and Carey come off the bench considering how well Jav and Bolden are defending now. I don’t expect Carey to switch on guards. The Hoos might light him up.

To what Hoos are you referring? That team gets a lot less scary without Hunter and Jerome. Kihei Clark can shoot all he wants.

[Hartford Dukie]

Jack and possibly Baker can play stretch 4. Jack can definitely defend the 4 so he just needs his shot to return in order to stretch the Defense. I don’t get the feeling that Hurt will be a lock down defender so we’re really just talking about shooting. We basically need a 3 shooters on the court when the drivers drive and, hopefully, no one left unguarded. Hurt would be nice to have but I’m hoping for a max of 2 freshman starters. If it’s Carey and Moore with Tre at PG, Duke will be a very good team. Jav, Bolden, Jack and JGold are all good defenders. 1 or more need to start. Defense is going to win the championship this year and probably next year too. Carey, Hurt, Moore, Hampton and Ellis might make up
A number one recruiting class but they would have been man-handled by UVA, Purdue, UK, Tennessee and Texas Tech among others this year. I don’t expect it to happen but I would rather have Hurt start and Carey come off the bench considering how well Jav and Bolden are defending now. I don’t expect Carey to switch on guards. The Hoos might light him up.

The reality is that Hurt is very, very likely to come to Duke. His response last night to Tre's post, was "My guy." As noted last night, Jonathan Givony included Hurt in next year's Duke team. Almost all the Crystal Ball predictions over the past 6 or so weeks are for Duke.

K has made Hurt his major priority this winter, with numerous trips to Minnesota. He really wants him.

If he is at Duke this fall - and it sure looks he will be - he will start.

And Carey will start - the number #2 or #3 recruit in the class is not coming to come off the bench.

I'm glad to do a pie bet, that if Hurt is here, he will start.

And a pie bet that Carey will start.

[kAzE]

I don't think Hampton is gonna be at Duke in 2019. I hope that he stays in 2020 to give us a chance at him next year. His dad has said repeatedly that RJ wants to be the point guard. That's not going to happen with Tre on the team.

Would not be shocked to see Memphis in 2019 though, unfortunately.

Not a whole lot in any of RJ's film screams "point guard" to me. He's clearly a score first (and second, and third) guard. Most of his assist highlights are when he goes up for a scoring move, gets cut off, and has to pass it in mid air to avoid turning it over.

Kind of an unfortunate situation with the dad demanding a starting point guard role. I think the kid would be a dominant 2-guard in college, even as an 18 year old, but I'm not sure I'd want him running my team's offense as a freshman. Maybe that's unfair, given how little of his game I've actually seen, but I think it would be extremely unlikely that RJ is anywhere close to Tre's level as a decision maker.

[lotusland]

To what Hoos are you referring? That team gets a lot less scary without Hunter and Jerome. Kihei Clark can shoot all he wants.

I was using this year’s UVA team as an example. No team will be the same next year, least of all Duke,but the final 4 is likely to be made up of tough veteran teams that play great defense. It was intended as a reminder that whatever freshman Duke bring in next year, they won’t be good enough to beat those type teams. It’s taken Bolden and Jav 3 years to become good defenders. Carey and Hurt will most likely be less effective than both on the defensive end next year.

[lotusland]

The reality is that Hurt is very, very likely to come to Duke. His response last night to Tre's post, was "My guy." As noted last night, Jonathan Givony included Hurt in next year's Duke team. Almost all the Crystal Ball predictions over the past 6 or so weeks are for Duke.

K has made Hurt his major priority this winter, with numerous trips to Minnesota. He really wants him.

If he is at Duke this fall - and it sure looks he will be - he will start.

And Carey will start - the number #2 or #3 recruit in the class is not coming to come off the bench.

I'm glad to do a pie bet, that if Hurt is here, he will start.

And a pie bet that Carey will start.

Yeah K is all in on OADs. The more the better. How about a pie bet that Carey and Hurt = weak front-court defense? I’m not sure how to measure that but I feel pretty confident that it will happen. My point was that the final four doesn’t have any teams with 2 bigs who don’t defend well so maybe starting 2 freshman bigs who aren’t expected to defend well is a bad idea. Just remember that with or without Hurt, next year’s class will be less heralded than this year’s class even without Zion.

[jimsumner]

Yeah K is all in on OADs. The more the better. How about a pie bet that Carey and Hurt = weak front-court defense? I’m not sure how to measure that but I feel pretty confident that it will happen. My point was that the final four doesn’t have any teams with 2 bigs who don’t defend well so maybe starting 2 freshman bigs who aren’t expected to defend well is a bad idea. Just remember that with or without Hurt, next year’s class will be less heralded than this year’s class even without Zion.

But if Jones returns than Duke will have much returning next season than it had returning this season.

[lotusland]

But if Jones returns than Duke will have much returning next season than it had returning this season.

Agreed and that’s a big reason for optimism imo. I think Tre will be Duke’s MVP next year as well as ACC defensive POY. No team is flawless but Duke has a chance to be very good next year with Tre back. IfJav, Jack and Bolden and JGold improve as much next year as they did this year, we’ll be very good. If AOC can make the Junior jump that Bolden, Jav and Jack made, he could be a difference maker and possibly even a starter next year.

[UrinalCake]

Hurt is essential. I will not watch another Duke basketball team that doesn't have spacing next season; Coach K just doesn't make it aesthetically pleasing enough to watch. Opponents just clog the lanes, and it becomes ugly offense.

I think every season we sort of take for granted what we have and wish for what we don’t. Next season we should have better shooters, but we will lack guys who can create off the dribble and perhaps guys who can excel in transition, which we of course had in spades this season. Having a go-to guy who can receive the ball and take his man one on one is actually a really valuable thing, even though fans though we overused that strategy this season. I’m looking forward to sharing the ball more and having more distributed scoring, but then the flip side is not knowing who will be the alpha dog in crunch time.

[Kedsy]

Sub-note: No team has ever gone to the Final Four (much less win it all) shooting as poorly as Duke did this season. The fact that we came so close was arguably over-achievement.

I'm surprised at you, TM. Plenty of Final Four teams have had worse eFG% than Duke had this season. It just happened in an unconventional manner.

[Kedsy]

My god, thank you for saying this. One of the most annoying memes of this season was when someone would remark on our poor shooting, and some other #wellactually guy would come along with a "nO wE aRe vEry GoOd at sHoOtInG tWoS" nonsense.

Why is it nonsense? If you get the points efficiently, why does it matter whether they come on threes or twos?

[uh_no]

Why is it nonsense? If you get the points efficiently, why does it matter whether they come on threes or twos?

I'm not sure shooting threes effectively would have made us throw the ball away less against msu.

but i feel this is a myth that will pervade for a long time... that not shooting threes was our fatal flaw.

[HereBeforeCoachK]

I'm not sure shooting threes effectively would have made us throw the ball away less against msu.
.

Nah. all it would have done was totally change MSU's entire defensive strategy.

[Monmouth77]

I'm not sure shooting threes effectively would have made us throw the ball away less against msu.

but i feel this is a myth that will pervade for a long time... that not shooting threes was our fatal flaw.

We turned the ball over several times against Michigan State because we were forcing it inside to a tightly guarded post that might have loosened up if our spacing and perimeter shooting were better over the course of the season. These things are not unrelated. We did hit a decent percentage of threes in that game, but MSU was going to play us to drive and dare us to shoot, and hitting a few threes did not change the strategy. We weren’t just bad at shooting 3s this year, we were uncomfortable doing it, and our offense got stuck a lot on the perimeter with guys too tentative to take open shots when they were available. I think you can acknowledge all this and not be perpetuating a “myth” that our failure to hit a high % of threes was in itself problematic.

[CDu]

We turned the ball over several times against Michigan State because we were forcing it inside to a tightly guarded post that might have loosened up if our spacing and perimeter shooting were better over the course of the season. These things are not unrelated. We did hit a decent percentage of threes in that game, but MSU was going to play us to drive and dare us to shoot, and hitting a few threes did not change the strategy. We weren’t just bad at shooting 3s this year, we were uncomfortable doing it, and our offense got stuck a lot on the perimeter with guys too tentative to take open shots when they were available. I think you can acknowledge all this and not be perpetuating a “myth” that our failure to hit a high % of threes was in itself problematic.

There were a few turnovers due to MSU packing it in. There were also several unforced turnovers that had nothing to do with the defense or our shooting ability. Coach K even made specific mention of our lack of poise in that game. In addition, we completely failed to force turnovers in this game.

So, in a game in which we shot above our season avg on threes, it would seem much more reasonable to me that we lost this game by committing too many unforced turnovers against a team that doesn’t force them and by not forcing turnovers against a very turnover-prone team.

We won over 30 games this season, including wins over 2 of the 1 seeds and 3 of the teams in the Final Four despite shooting poorly. We lost just twice while healthy, with both being one-possession nailbiters. Shooting wasn’t what did us in. Failing to play with the poise and focus we played with all season is what did us in. If we have our normal turnover game and force our normal turnover game (or come even close), we win. Perhaps fairly comfortably.

But to bring it back to the thread, let’s hope Jones works diligently on the jumper this offseason if he does come back. That is the one piece of the puzzle he is missing.

[NSDukeFan]

There were a few turnovers due to MSU packing it in. There were also several unforced turnovers that had nothing to do with the defense or our shooting ability. Coach K even made specific mention of our lack of poise in that game. In addition, we completely failed to force turnovers in this game.

So, in a game in which we shot above our season avg on threes, it would seem much more reasonable to me that we lost this game by committing too many unforced turnovers against a team that doesn’t force them and by not forcing turnovers against a very turnover-prone team.

We won over 30 games this season, including wins over 2 of the 1 seeds and 3 of the teams in the Final Four despite shooting poorly. We lost just twice while healthy, with both being one-possession nailbiters. Shooting wasn’t what did us in. Failing to play with the poise and focus we played with all season is what did us in. If we have our normal turnover game and force our normal turnover game (or come even close), we win. Perhaps fairly comfortably.

But to bring it back to the thread, let’s hope Jones works diligently on the jumper this offseason if he does come back. That is the one piece of the puzzle he is missing.

It wouldn’t have hurt to have scored a fast break basket either.

[Native]

Bridget Condon, ABC11 (https://twitter.com/BridgetABC11/status/1114971980539809792):


Per source, Tre Jones will return to #Duke next year. This is huge for the Blue Devils. #ABC11

[DukieInKansas]

Bridget Condon, ABC11 (https://twitter.com/BridgetABC11/status/1114971980539809792):

Would love to see it on @DukeMBB.

[duke96]

This thread .... can we really not get excited about Tre coming back?

[Dub]

We seemingly have this same conversation every year short of a Natty. Last season it was Trevon/Grayson/Bagley/Wendell chemistry issues. This season it’s that we couldn’t shoot and RJ forced too much. Previous seasons it was Duke lives and dies by the 3.

End of the day, we’ve made two straight Elite 8s and lost both at the absolute end of the game. Does it suck? Sure but I think we’ve very much played to our potential and a Grayson roll or a RJ made free throw changes the negative tone.

Next years team will look very different and I’m positive we’ll have many animated conversations about who should and shouldn’t be getting minutes. I for one will miss RJ’s contributions and I have a feeling he’ll be more appreciated in hindsight.

[TJ99]

He just posted another instagram pic with a picture off his Duke jersey and him lookin at it with a blue heart and crossed fingers emoji.....he's back, done deal.

[CDu]

I think the amazing irony of the “bad shooting did us in” argument is that we actually shot better in this loss than we did in many of the ultimate losses for our better shooting teams.

2012: shot 23% against Lehigh
2013: shot 25% against Louisville
2016: shot 32% against Oregon
2018: shot 24% against Kansas

That was what was different about this team: we WEREN’T reliant on outside shooting. Like, at all. So much so that our 33% in the MSU game was above our norm. We were a team that feasted on 2pt FGs and offensive rebounds, and we beat a bunch of great teams without shooting. We just had an outlier game in turnovers (both ways), with many of them being mind numbing lay unnecessary (like Barrett’s opening turnover, or Reddish stepping out of bounds, or throwing an inbounds pass out of bounds, just to name a few). If we are even remotely close to our norms in those two categories, we win.

When I look for reasons why we lost, I tend to look for the out of character things. Because we built our 1 seed resume as a bad shooting team. So not shooting well was baked in. What caused the loss was committing 3-4 extra unforced turnovers and failing to commit 3-4 more turnovers against a turnover-prone opponent.

As for Jones, the news is leaning towards a really exciting break for us. Having a floor general with tourney experience is a really nice plus. Hoping he has a great year!

[thedukelamere]

He just posted another instagram pic with a picture off his Duke jersey and him lookin at it with a blue heart and crossed fingers emoji....he's back, done deal.

My wife is the Instagramer in the family, and she just showed me and asked what it means... fingers crossed might mean he’s hoping to retire #3 and leave with it in the rafters?

[Hartford Dukie]

Here's the instagram post...

https://www.instagram.com/p/Bv-e66FHett/?utm_source=ig_share_sheet&igshid=ig1vtjr3758j

Is anyone really doubting he's coming back after two of these?

[SavDukeGrad]

Here's the instagram post...

https://www.instagram.com/p/Bv-e66FHett/?utm_source=ig_share_sheet&igshid=ig1vtjr3758j

Is anyone really doubting he's coming back after two of these?

Wendell Moore and Vernon Carey both commented on it with 👀, FWIW.

[fan345678]

He just posted another instagram pic with a picture off his Duke jersey and him lookin at it with a blue heart and crossed fingers emoji....he's back, done deal.

He's looking down and away from it...could also mean that he's hanging it up and crossing his fingers that he gets good results in the draft, but his heart still bleeds Duke blue

[proelitedota]

He's looking down and away from it...could also mean that he's hanging it up and crossing his fingers that he gets good results in the draft, but his heart still bleeds Duke blue

Haha. You funny.

[cbarry]

I’ll believe it when it’s official, and not a second before then.


Here's the instagram post...

https://www.instagram.com/p/Bv-e66FHett/?utm_source=ig_share_sheet&igshid=ig1vtjr3758j

Is anyone really doubting he's coming back after two of these?

[cbarry]

I’ll believe it when it’s official, and not a second before then.

and I REALLY hope it’s official. But I expect he will test the waters at least.

[sagegrouse]

So, in a game in which we shot above our season avg on threes, it would seem much more reasonable to me that we lost this game by committing too many unforced turnovers against a team that doesn’t force them and by not forcing turnovers against a very turnover-prone team.

.

Kindly message to both CDu and Kedsy:

We lost the game by ONE POINT. Anything better by Duke would have likely changed the outcome. So --OK -- turnovers were a huge problem. Let me offer some others: For instance, the only player on the team who seemed to play above his norm was Javin, who was a revelation. RJ nad Zion scored -- but not very efficiently compared to their usual game and had 12 TO's between them. Also, I didn't see much teamwork on offense -- Tre, Alex, Marques, and Jack scored four points -- as in F-O-U-R -- in 63 minutes of action and took only eight shots -- as in EIGHT shots in 63 minutes on the floor! And it wasn't because Michigan State was concentrating on them.

Bad time for the team to have a bad game.

[roywhite]

Kindly message to both CDu and Kedsy:

We lost the game by ONE POINT. Anything better by Duke would have likely changed the outcome. So --OK -- turnovers were a huge problem. Let me offer some others: For instance, the only player on the team who seemed to play above his norm was Javin, who was a revelation. RJ nad Zion scored -- but not very efficiently compared to their usual game and had 12 TO's between them. Also, I didn't see much teamwork on offense -- Tre, Alex, Marques, and Jack scored four points -- as in F-O-U-R -- in 63 minutes of action and took only eight shots -- as in EIGHT shots in 63 minutes on the floor! And it wasn't because Michigan State was concentrating on them.

Bad time for the team to have a bad game.

True, but the team did not have a particularly good game in the round of 32 or the round of 16 either. Both the finalists also had near death experiences in the tournament, but were able to advance.

This was such a likable, marvelously entertaining team and we're all sad to see things end, but I think the final result fairly represented this team's worth.

[duke4ever19]

and I REALLY hope it’s official. But I expect he will test the waters at least.

You expect it, huh? Howabout a pie bet? I say he doesn't. You say he does. You in?

[Hartford Dukie]

and I REALLY hope it’s official. But I expect he will test the waters at least.

So let’s play this out...the Jones family got together this weekend in Minnesota – where Tre is – and they thought of posting a set of Instagrams where Tre would raise gazillions of expectations that he was coming back (last night Instagram got 133,000 likes – with teammates [e.g. Alex, Joey], the Brotherhood [e.g. Jah, Amile] and members of the Duke family (e.g. Debbie Savarino) all enthusiastically saying that's great - let’s go) -- all the while simply intending to test the waters.

To even give it more credibility, Tyus, who obviously had been a key part of the family discussions this weekend, would be the first to respond with “Write your own story! I love you my boy, lets workkkkk.””

And then – knowing the reactions above last night to the first Instagram and to raise expectations further, Tre – assuming with advice from the family -- then posts another Instagram tonight (which already has 60,000+ likes in less than 2 hours)...again, all this done while intending to test the waters......and what, the Jones believe this is a way to endear Tre to teammates, the Brotherhood and the Duke family and fans....wow – that’s a level of skepticism on your part that’s hard to match.

[szstark]

I think the amazing irony of the “bad shooting did us in” argument is that we actually shot better in this loss than we did in many of the ultimate losses for our better shooting teams.

2012: shot 23% against Lehigh
2013: shot 25% against Louisville
2016: shot 32% against Oregon
2018: shot 24% against Kansas

That was what was different about this team: we WEREN’T reliant on outside shooting. Like, at all. So much so that our 33% in the MSU game was above our norm. We were a team that feasted on 2pt FGs and offensive rebounds, and we beat a bunch of great teams without shooting. We just had an outlier game in turnovers (both ways), with many of them being mind numbing lay unnecessary (like Barrett’s opening turnover, or Reddish stepping out of bounds, or throwing an inbounds pass out of bounds, just to name a few). If we are even remotely close to our norms in those two categories, we win.

When I look for reasons why we lost, I tend to look for the out of character things. Because we built our 1 seed resume as a bad shooting team. So not shooting well was baked in. What caused the loss was committing 3-4 extra unforced turnovers and failing to commit 3-4 more turnovers against a turnover-prone opponent.

As for Jones, the news is leaning towards a really exciting break for us. Having a floor general with tourney experience is a really nice plus. Hoping he has a great year!
Not only weren’t we reliant on outside shooting, we were historically bad at it. As the season progressed, it became evident to other coaches to defend us accordingly, i.e. pack the lane and play the percentages from the outside. We often had the talent to overcome this strategy, but it became harder and harder as the competition became better and better. Many on this board were asking last summer where the outside shooting was going to come from on this team. The answer was that it would be sporadic and never would become reliable. Give the other teams credit - either they read DBR or they figured out on their own that their best chance to beat Duke was to force Duke to take their lowest percentage shots as often as possible. I think this defensive strategy also led to some of our higher turnover rates as we tried to force passes into extremely tight coverage areas. Don’t just look at the last game - look at the last month of the season. We were winning, yes, but we weren’t controlling games like we had been. Some of that was injury related, but a lot of it was a common defensive strategy by many of our opponents.

[Steven43]

Not only weren’t we reliant on outside shooting, we were historically bad at it. As the season progressed, it became evident to other coaches to defend us accordingly, i.e. pack the lane and play the percentages from the outside. We often had the talent to overcome this strategy, but it became harder and harder as the competition became better and better. Many on this board were asking last summer where the outside shooting was going to come from on this team. The answer was that it would be sporadic and never would become reliable. Give the other teams credit - either they read DBR or they figured out on their own that their best chance to beat Duke was to force Duke to take their lowest percentage shots as often as possible. I think this defensive strategy also led to some of our higher turnover rates as we tried to force passes into extremely tight coverage areas. Don’t just look at the last game - look at the last month of the season. We were winning, yes, but we weren’t controlling games like we had been. Some of that was injury related, but a lot of it was a common defensive strategy by many of our opponents.
Seems pretty plausible to me. I look forward to the refutations that are sure to come. Honestly, I do.

[Kfanarmy]

Kindly message to both CDu and Kedsy:

We lost the game by ONE POINT. Anything better by Duke would have likely changed the outcome. So --OK -- turnovers were a huge problem. Let me offer some others: For instance, the only player on the team who seemed to play above his norm was Javin, who was a revelation. RJ nad Zion scored -- but not very efficiently compared to their usual game and had 12 TO's between them. Also, I didn't see much teamwork on offense -- Tre, Alex, Marques, and Jack scored four points -- as in F-O-U-R -- in 63 minutes of action and took only eight shots -- as in EIGHT shots in 63 minutes on the floor! And it wasn't because Michigan State was concentrating on them.

Bad time for the team to have a bad game.

so you agree that Turnovers were a big problem...specifically the high number by RJ and Zion? :)

[HereBeforeCoachK]

Duke Basketball account tweeted it (https://twitter.com/DukeMBB/status/1115366343887466496). It's official!

And just think, those of us predicting / recommending this weeks ago were so belittled on this very august forum...

[bigperm13]

Take off the ? in the thread title. It's official.