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HCheek37
04-03-2019, 12:05 PM
As we look forward to next season, I believe the amount of turnover ahead in the ACC will be quite high. Here's what each team is looking at - I may be missing information with regards to redshirts and transfers so please feel free to add that. This is a great resource for transfers - grad transfers at the top could play next year while the bottom group have to sit out a year. https://watchstadium.com/news/these-are-the-best-college-basketball-players-transferring-this-offseason-04-01-2019/

At first glance, it seems like Miami, Virginia Tech and Clemson will drop off while Louisville adds a ton of new talent, Notre Dame keeps their full squad and Virginia will be Virginia again with most of their team back barring a surprise departure from Jerome or Diakite.

Huge draft decisions ahead from Tre Jones, Coby White, DeAndre Hunter, Mifondu Kabengele and others while Matthew Hurt and Cole Anthony could be massive wins for Duke and UNC.

Duke
Definitely Gone:
Maybe Leaving: Williamson, Barrett, Reddish, Jones
Incoming: Vernon Carey, Wendell Moore, Boogie Ellis
Maybe Coming: Matthew Hurt

UNC
Definitely Gone: Maye, Johnson, Williams, Little
Maybe Leaving: White
Incoming: Armando Bacot, Jeremiah Francis
Maybe Coming: Cole Anthony, Matthew Hurt

Virginia
Definitely Gone: Salt
Maybe Leaving: Hunter
Incoming: Kadin Shedrick (4* C), Casey Morsell (4* SG)
Maybe Coming:

Florida State
Definitely Gone: Nichols, Mann, Cofer, Savoy, Koumadje
Maybe Leaving: Kabengele
Incoming: Patrick Williams (4* SF), Balsa Koprivica (4* C), Naheem McLeod (3* C), Nathanael Jack (2* SG) Zimife Nwokeji (3* SF)
Maybe Coming: Kenyon Martin Jr

Virginia Tech
Definitely Gone: Buzz Williams, Hill, Outlaw, Robinson
Maybe Leaving: Alexander-Walker, Blackshear
Incoming: Anthony Harris (4* G), Emanuel Miller (3* PF), Andre Gordon (3* G), Yavuz Gultekin (3* C) - all tbd after Buzz's departure
Maybe Coming: Atticus Taylor

Louisville
Definitely Gone: Cunningham, Fore
Maybe Leaving: Enoch, Nwora
Incoming: Samuell Williamson (4* SF), Aidan Igiehon (4* C), David Johnson (4* G), Jaelyn Withers (4* PF), Josh Nickelberry (4* SG), Quinn Slazinski (3* PF)
Maybe Coming

Syracuse
Definitely Gone: Howard, Chukwu,
Maybe Leaving: Battle, Brissett
Incoming: Brycen Goodine (4* SG), Quincy Guerrier (4* SF), Joe Girard (3* G), John Bol Ajak (3* C)
Maybe Coming: Dimon Carrigan, Jesse Edwards

Clemson
Definitely Gone: Reed, Thomas, Mitchell, Skara (all 4 starters)
Maybe Leaving:
Incoming: Al-Amir Dawes (4* PG), Chase Hunter (3* SG), Alex Hemenway (3* SG)
Maybe Coming:

NC State
Definitely Gone: Dorn, Walker, Lockett
Maybe Leaving: Johnson
Incoming: Jalen Lecque (4* G), Dereon Seabron (4* G)
Maybe Coming: Justin McKoy (3* SF)

Georgia Tech
Definitely Gone: Gueye, Alston
Maybe Leaving:
Incoming: David Didenko, Jordan Usher (transfer available to play Jan 2020)
Maybe Coming: Niven Glover, Jesse Edwards

Miami
Definitely Gone: Lawrence, Johnson, Izundu (all 3 starters)
Maybe Leaving:
Incoming: Isaiah Wong (4* G), Anthony Walker (3* PF)
Maybe Coming: Tristan Enaruna

Boston College
Definitely Gone: Chatman
Maybe Leaving: Bowman
Incoming: Calvin Felder (3* PF), Julian Rishwain (3* SG), Jay Heath (3* SG), Kamari Williams (3* SG)
Maybe Coming:

Wake Forest
Definitely Gone: Johnson
Maybe Leaving:
Incoming: Ismael Massound (4* SF), Charles Coleman (3* C), Ody Oguama, Charles Coleman
Maybe Coming:

Notre Dame
Definitely Gone:
Maybe Leaving:
Incoming:
Maybe Coming: Cole Anthony

(Pflueger is back for a 5th year after his ACL tear and ND has no other seniors or commitments)

Pittsburgh
Definitely Gone: Wilson-Frame, N'Dir
Maybe Leaving:
Incoming: Karim Coulibaly (4* Center), Gerald Drumgoole
Maybe Coming: Tre Mitchell

gofurman
04-03-2019, 12:13 PM
Cheek, Thank you ! That is awesome and rather thorough.. Thanks!

I think we might add returning starters or players of 10+ minutes/contributors to get the full picture. and then keep this updated with recruits and guys that decide to leave. Like for Duke add Bolden/DeLaurier as returning starters at Center though Carey will get a lot of time. Add Brooks for UNC ... and Amir Sims and Clyde Trapp at Clemson etc etc. As long as they played some minutes of value / points. We could all add to the list until it is complete. And then update as guys decide on a school or go NBA.

Would that be ok?

CDu
04-03-2019, 12:14 PM
I would add Trendon Watford to the list of maybe coming for Duke. And add Ty Jerome and Kyle Guy to the maybe leaving for UVa.

Also, Tyus Battle is in the leaving category. He declared.

Haven't looked through all the others though.

PackMan97
04-03-2019, 12:23 PM
NC State
Definitely Gone: Dorn, Walker, Lockett
Maybe Leaving: Johnson
Incoming: Jalen Lecque (4* G), Dereon Seabron (4* G)
Maybe Coming: Justin McKoy (3* SF)


Walker still has a year of eligibility left.
Jalen Lecque should be moved to maybe coming (or maybe going). He did a post-graduate prep year at Brewsters and is thus 1-year removed from college and eligible for the NBA draft. He has filed for an NBA evaluation and has until whatever date in May to decide to go to college or try for the NBA.

Dukebasketball2020
04-03-2019, 12:30 PM
I think Tyus needs to come back most mock drafts have him early second round middle second round. He could use another year, bulk up and improve his jump shot.

DarkstarWahoo
04-03-2019, 12:32 PM
I get why you have Hunter as “maybe leaving,” but he’s gone. Jerome is almost certainly gone as well. Guy is a maybe, and I think Diakite will test the waters after the tournament he’s had.

CDu
04-03-2019, 12:35 PM
I think Tyus needs to come back most mock drafts have him early second round middle second round. He could use another year, bulk up and improve his jump shot.

I assume you mean Tre.

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
04-03-2019, 12:40 PM
I get why you have Hunter as “maybe leaving,” but he’s gone. Jerome is almost certainly gone as well. Guy is a maybe, and I think Diakite will test the waters after the tournament he’s had.

Well, Zion is in that same category. Seems like "maybe leaving" is playing it safe until announcements are made.

CDu
04-03-2019, 12:51 PM
Well, Zion is in that same category. Seems like "maybe leaving" is playing it safe until announcements are made.

Yeah, I'm fine with "maybe" until a guy says he is going. I'd include Jerome and Guy in the "maybe" category though. And remove Battle from the "maybe" and into "leaving".

HCheek37
04-03-2019, 12:53 PM
Cheek, Thank you ! That is awesome and rather thorough.. Thanks!

I think we might add returning starters or players of 10+ minutes/contributors to get the full picture. and then keep this updated with recruits and guys that decide to leave. Like for Duke add Bolden/DeLaurier as returning starters at Center though Carey will get a lot of time. Add Brooks for UNC ... and Amir Sims and Clyde Trapp at Clemson etc etc. As long as they played some minutes of value / points. We could all add to the list until it is complete. And then update as guys decide on a school or go NBA.

Would that be ok?

Sure - how do I edit a post? Do I need approval from mods to be able to edit?

devildeac
04-03-2019, 01:10 PM
Sure - how do I edit a post? Do I need approval from mods to be able to edit?

You have about 15 minutes after submitting a post for editing purposes and you'd need to click on the box appearing in the lower right corner of your post that I *think* says "edit post." After that, you'll need another post.

No problem.

Thanks for starting this thread.

Neals384
04-03-2019, 01:21 PM
Ky Bowman is gone:
http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/26424841/bc-bowman-skipping-senior-year-enter-draft

HCheek37
04-03-2019, 01:49 PM
(number in parentheses is % of minutes played in 2018-2019 - only included if a player played more than 20% of the team's minutes and is definitely going or staying)

https://watchstadium.com/news/these-are-the-best-college-basketball-players-transferring-this-offseason-04-01-2019/ - grad transfers plus best regular transfers

https://watchstadium.com/news/comprehensive-list-of-college-basketball-players-transferring-12-29-2018/ - comprehensive transfer list from this season

Duke
Definitely Gone:
Maybe Leaving: Williamson, Barrett, Reddish, Jones
Staying: Bolden (44%), O'Connell (33%), White (47%), DeLaurier (41%), Goldwire (20%)
Incoming: Vernon Carey, Wendell Moore, Boogie Ellis
Maybe Coming: Matthew Hurt, Trendon Watford

UNC
Definitely Gone: Maye (77%), Johnson (75%), Williams (75%), Little (45%)
Maybe Leaving: White
Staying: Woods (25%), Brooks (57%), Robinson (29%)
Incoming: Armando Bacot, Jeremiah Francis
Maybe Coming: Cole Anthony, Matthew Hurt

Virginia
Definitely Gone: Salt
Maybe Leaving: Hunter, Jerome, Guy
Staying: Huff (22%), Diakite (53%), Key (49%), Clark (66%)
Incoming: Kadin Shedrick (4* C), Casey Morsell (4* SG)
Maybe Coming:

Florida State
Definitely Gone: Nichols (41%), Mann (78%), Cofer (38%), Savoy (36%), Koumadje (38%)
Maybe Leaving: Kabengele
Staying: Forrest (74%), Walker (61%), Gray (29%), Vassell (24%) Polite (22%)
Incoming: Patrick Williams (4* SF), Balsa Koprivica (4* C), Naheem McLeod (3* C), Nathanael Jack (2* SG) Zimife Nwokeji (3* SF)
Maybe Coming: Kenyon Martin Jr

Virginia Tech
Definitely Gone: Buzz Williams, Hill (88%), Outlaw (73%), Robinson (50% - injured)
Maybe Leaving: Alexander-Walker, Blackshear
Staying: TBD with coaching change
Incoming: Anthony Harris (4* G), Emanuel Miller (3* PF), Andre Gordon (3* G), Yavuz Gultekin (3* C) - all tbd after Buzz's departure
Maybe Coming: Atticus Taylor

Louisville
Definitely Gone: Cunningham (75%), Fore (48%)
Maybe Leaving: Enoch, Nwora
Staying: Williams (45%), Sutton (78%), McMahon (47%) Perry (39%), King (32%)
Incoming: Samuell Williamson (4* SF), Aidan Igiehon (4* C), David Johnson (4* G), Jaelyn Withers (4* PF), Josh Nickelberry (4* SG), Quinn Slazinski (3* PF)
Maybe Coming:

Syracuse
Definitely Gone: Howard (57%), Chukwu (49%), Battle (85%)
Maybe Leaving: Brissett
Staying: Boeheim (40%), Carey (22%), Sidibe (22%), Dolezaj (54%)
Incoming: Brycen Goodine (4* SG), Quincy Guerrier (4* SF), Joe Girard (3* G), John Bol Ajak (3* C)
Maybe Coming: Dimon Carrigan, Jesse Edwards

Clemson
Definitely Gone: Reed (81%), Thomas (64%), Mitchell (77%), Skara (76%) White (20%)
Maybe Leaving:
Staying: Simms (67%), Trapp (60%), Newman (30%), Tyson (20%)
Incoming: Al-Amir Dawes (4* PG), Chase Hunter (3* SG), Alex Hemenway (3* SG)
Maybe Coming:

NC State
Definitely Gone: Dorn (71%), Lockett (27%)
Maybe Leaving: Johnson
Staying: Daniels (58%), Hellems (34%), Harris (20%), Bryce (68%), Funderburk (49%), Beverly (71%), Walker (44%)
Incoming: Dereon Seabron (4* G)
Maybe Coming: Justin McKoy (3* SF), Jalen Lecque (4* G)

Georgia Tech
Definitely Gone: Gueye (40%), Alston (36%)
Maybe Leaving: Haywood (transfer portal)
Staying: Alvarado (83%), Banks (73%), Wright (43%), Cole (17% - injured), Devoe (80%), Moore (40%)
Incoming: David Didenko, Jordan Usher (transfer available to play Jan 2020)
Maybe Coming: Niven Glover, Jesse Edwards

Miami
Definitely Gone: Lawrence (83%), Johnson (77%), Izundu (69%)
Maybe Leaving:
Staying: Lykes (84%), Vasiljevic (80%), Waardenburg (62%), Mack (34%)
Incoming: Isaiah Wong (4* G), Anthony Walker (3* PF)
Maybe Coming: Tristan Enaruna

Boston College
Definitely Gone: Bowman (97%), Chatman (76%)
Maybe Leaving:
Staying: Popovic (66%), Tabbs (37% - injured), Jairus Hamilton (50%), Herren (38%), Jared Hamilton (39%), Mitchell (62%)
Incoming: Calvin Felder (3* PF), Julian Rishwain (3* SG), Jay Heath (3* SG), Kamari Williams (3* SG)
Maybe Coming:

Wake Forest
Definitely Gone: Johnson (45%)
Maybe Leaving:
Staying: Hoard (75%), Childress (90%), Brown (72%), Wright (55%), Mucius (54%), Sarr (43%), Smart (32%)
Incoming: Ismael Massound (4* SF), Charles Coleman (3* C), Ody Oguama, Charles Coleman
Maybe Coming:

Notre Dame
Definitely Gone:
Maybe Leaving: Harvey (transfer portal)
Staying: Mooney (74%), Gibbs (88%), Hubb (84%), Laszewski (48%), Durham (31%), Pflueger (23% - injured), Goodwin (61%), Djogo (20% - injured)
Incoming:
Maybe Coming: Cole Anthony

(Pflueger is back for a 5th year after his ACL tear and ND has no other seniors or commitments)

Pittsburgh
Definitely Gone: Wilson-Frame, N'Dir
Maybe Leaving: Davis (transfer portal)
Staying: Johnson (89%), McGowens (69%), Toney (61%), Ellison (49%), Brown (47%), Chukwuka (43%)
Incoming: Karim Coulibaly (4* Center), Gerald Drumgoole
Maybe Coming: Jahvon Quinnerly

I included a bunch of your comments in prior posts plus a few updates from today as Quinnerly is leaving Nova and rumored to be headed to Pittsburgh. I will update when more changes occur with names entering the draft.

jv001
04-03-2019, 03:36 PM
Good thread, but you'll be adding and subtracting players for a while now. GoDuke!

HCheek37
04-03-2019, 04:37 PM
Good thread, but you'll be adding and subtracting players for a while now. GoDuke!

No problem - I'll aim to update once or twice a week until the draft.

Coby White is the latest to declare and doesn't seem like he's testing the waters. https://twitter.com/whitecoby2/status/1113536291419951104

gofurman
04-04-2019, 07:52 AM
No problem - I'll aim to update once or twice a week until the draft.

Coby White is the latest to declare and doesn't seem like he's testing the waters. https://twitter.com/whitecoby2/status/1113536291419951104

Cheek, thanks for doing this !!! Yep. Just updated once or so a week. It will slow up in a few weeks *nice to see Coby White join Little on the list of gone for UNC

ElliottHoo
04-04-2019, 12:00 PM
UVA is also adding Francisco Caffaro, 4* C from Argentina via Australia. He’s like a slightly less rugged, more-offensively skilled (as long as he’s within 5’ of the hoop) version of Salt.

UVA’s front-court will be really deep next year, but back-court will be really shallow barring a grad-transfer or late 2019 pick-up.

Neals384
04-04-2019, 01:06 PM
Anthony Harris has asked for release from VA Tech

gofurman
04-05-2019, 08:16 AM
I could really see some have-not in the ACC next year. More than this year even. Pitt, Wake, BC, Miami, Clemson, VT, GT

gofurman
04-05-2019, 08:35 AM
Mid tier. Maybe. Notre Dame. State. Syracuse

Top tier. Duke. Unc. UVA. Louisville. FSU.

Need to keep
Evaluating as those leave/recruits firm up

Neals384
04-08-2019, 02:44 PM
Alexander-Walker declares for the draft.

HCheek37
04-15-2019, 12:56 PM
updated 4/15
(number in parentheses is % of minutes played in 2018-2019 - only included if a player played more than 20% of the team's minutes and is definitely going or staying)

https://watchstadium.com/news/these-...on-04-01-2019/ - grad transfers plus best regular transfers

https://watchstadium.com/news/compre...ng-12-29-2018/ - comprehensive transfer list from this season

Duke
Definitely Gone: Reddish, Barrett
Maybe Leaving: Williamson
Staying: Jones (81%), Bolden (44%), O'Connell (33%), White (47%), DeLaurier (41%), Goldwire (20%)
Incoming: Vernon Carey, Wendell Moore, Boogie Ellis
Maybe Coming: Matthew Hurt, Trendon Watford, Cassius Stanley

UNC
Definitely Gone: Maye (77%), Johnson (75%), Williams (75%), White (69%), Little (45%)
Maybe Leaving:
Staying: Woods (25%), Brooks (57%), Robinson (29%)
Incoming: Armando Bacot, Jeremiah Francis
Maybe Coming: Cole Anthony, Matthew Hurt

Virginia
Definitely Gone: Salt, Jerome
Maybe Leaving: Hunter, Guy
Staying: Huff (22%), Diakite (53%), Key (49%), Clark (66%)
Incoming: Kadin Shedrick (4* C), Casey Morsell (4* SG), Francisco Cavaro (4* C)
Maybe Coming:

Florida State
Definitely Gone: Nichols (41%), Mann (78%), Cofer (38%), Savoy (36%), Koumadje (38%), Kabengele (53%)
Maybe Leaving:
Staying: Forrest (74%), Walker (61%), Gray (29%), Vassell (24%) Polite (22%)
Incoming: Patrick Williams (4* SF), Balsa Koprivica (4* C), Naheem McLeod (3* C), Nathanael Jack (2* SG) Zimife Nwokeji (3* SF), RayQuan Evans (Juco)
Maybe Coming: Kenyon Martin Jr

Virginia Tech
Definitely Gone: Buzz Williams, Hill (88%), Outlaw (73%), Robinson (50% - injured), Alexander-Walker (83%)
Maybe Leaving: Blackshear
Staying: TBD with coaching change
Incoming: Emanuel Miller (3* PF)
Maybe Coming: Atticus Taylor

Louisville
Definitely Gone: Cunningham (75%), Fore (48%)
Maybe Leaving: Enoch (declared without agent), Nwora (declared without agent)
Staying: Williams (45%), Sutton (78%), McMahon (47%) Perry (39%), King (32%)
Incoming: Samuell Williamson (4* SF), Aidan Igiehon (4* C), David Johnson (4* G), Jaelyn Withers (4* PF), Josh Nickelberry (4* SG), Quinn Slazinski (3* PF)
Maybe Coming:

Syracuse
Definitely Gone: Howard (57%), Chukwu (49%), Battle (85%)
Maybe Leaving: Brissett (declared without agent)
Staying: Boeheim (40%), Carey (22%), Sidibe (22%), Dolezaj (54%)
Incoming: Brycen Goodine (4* SG), Quincy Guerrier (4* SF), Joe Girard (3* G), John Bol Ajak (3* C)
Maybe Coming: Dimon Carrigan, Jesse Edwards

Clemson
Definitely Gone: Reed (81%), Thomas (64%), Mitchell (77%), Skara (76%) White (20%)
Maybe Leaving:
Staying: Simms (67%), Trapp (60%), Newman (30%), Tyson (20%)
Incoming: Al-Amir Dawes (4* PG), Chase Hunter (3* SG), Alex Hemenway (3* SG)
Maybe Coming:

NC State
Definitely Gone: Dorn (71%), Lockett (27%)
Maybe Leaving: Johnson
Staying: Daniels (58%), Hellems (34%), Harris (20%), Bryce (68%), Funderburk (49%), Beverly (71%), Walker (44%)
Incoming: Dereon Seabron (4* G)
Maybe Coming: Justin McKoy (3* SF), Jalen Lecque (4* G)

Georgia Tech
Definitely Gone: Gueye (40%), Alston (36%)
Maybe Leaving: Haywood (transfer portal)
Staying: Alvarado (83%), Banks (73%), Wright (43%), Cole (17% - injured), Devoe (80%), Moore (40%)
Incoming: David Didenko, Jordan Usher (transfer available to play Jan 2020)
Maybe Coming: Niven Glover, Jesse Edwards

Miami
Definitely Gone: Lawrence (83%), Johnson (77%), Izundu (69%)
Maybe Leaving:
Staying: Lykes (84%), Vasiljevic (80%), Waardenburg (62%), Mack (34%)
Incoming: Isaiah Wong (4* G), Anthony Walker (3* PF)
Maybe Coming: Tristan Enaruna

Boston College
Definitely Gone: Bowman (97%), Chatman (76%)
Maybe Leaving:
Staying: Popovic (66%), Tabbs (37% - injured), Jairus Hamilton (50%), Herren (38%), Jared Hamilton (39%), Mitchell (62%)
Incoming: Calvin Felder (3* PF), Julian Rishwain (3* SG), Jay Heath (3* SG), Kamari Williams (3* SG)
Maybe Coming:

Wake Forest
Definitely Gone: Johnson (45%)
Maybe Leaving:
Staying: Hoard (75%), Childress (90%), Brown (72%), Wright (55%), Mucius (54%), Sarr (43%), Smart (32%)
Incoming: Ismael Massound (4* SF), Charles Coleman (3* C), Ody Oguama, Charles Coleman
Maybe Coming:

Notre Dame
Definitely Gone:
Maybe Leaving: Harvey (transfer portal)
Staying: Mooney (74%), Gibbs (88%), Hubb (84%), Laszewski (48%), Durham (31%), Pflueger (23% - injured), Goodwin (61%), Djogo (20% - injured)
Incoming:
Maybe Coming: Cole Anthony

(Pflueger is back for a 5th year after his ACL tear and ND has no other seniors or commitments)

Pittsburgh
Definitely Gone: Wilson-Frame, N'Dir
Maybe Leaving: Davis (transfer portal)
Staying: Johnson (89%), McGowens (69%), Toney (61%), Ellison (49%), Brown (47%), Chukwuka (43%)
Incoming: Karim Coulibaly (4* Center), Gerald Drumgoole
Maybe Coming: Jahvon Quinnerly

PackMan97
04-15-2019, 06:32 PM
NC State
Maybe Coming: Justin McKoy (3* SF)

The needs to read:

Virginia
Definitely coming: Justin McKoy (3* SF)

ElliottHoo
04-15-2019, 06:48 PM
Tough week to keep this updated. Hunter announced for the draft for UVA. He’s gone.

-jk
04-15-2019, 06:53 PM
Tough week to keep this updated. Hunter announced for the draft for UVA. He’s gone.

We often have folks who're (Hoo're? - nah!) paying attention - like HCheek37 - and who post ongoing updates.

Thanks, HCheek37! Awesome update!

-jk

DavidBenAkiva
04-16-2019, 02:14 PM
Kerry Blackshear just announced that he's leaving VTech. Duke has a home-and-home series with the Hokies, who lose basically their entire team from this past season as well as their coach. Tough break. I suppose that Duke might actually be favored in Blacksburg this upcoming season.

JasonEvans
04-16-2019, 02:21 PM
Kerry Blackshear just announced that he's leaving VTech. Duke has a home-and-home series with the Hokies, who lose basically their entire team from this past season as well as their coach. Tough break. I suppose that Duke might actually be favored in Blacksburg this upcoming season.

In addition to Blackshear (wanna bet on him ending up at Texas A&M?), former top 75 recruit freshman Landers Nolley and part-time starter soph Wabissa Bede have both entered the transfer portal. Ouch! Va Tech may need some walk-ons to even field a team.

Neals384
04-16-2019, 09:44 PM
Lou - VJ King
Mia - Dewan Hernandez (not new news, but he's still gone)
NCState - Markell Johnson, Jalen Lecque

gofurman
04-16-2019, 09:53 PM
Lou - VJ King
Mia - Dewan Hernandez (not new news, but he's still gone)
NCState - Markell Johnson, Jalen Lecque


also this:

Pitt is losing sophomore guard Khameron Davis and junior Malik Ellison to the transfer.... ( actually probably good for Pitt as Freshmen Xavier Johnson and Trey McGowens were terrific and they’ll start )

JasonEvans
04-17-2019, 08:06 AM
Lou - VJ King
Mia - Dewan Hernandez (not new news, but he's still gone)
NCState - Markell Johnson, Jalen Lecque

Just so we are clear...

VJ King averaged less than 4 ppg this past season and played only 13 minutes per game. He is on course to graduate this summer so he would be eligible for a grad transfer. Bottom line, the NBA is going to have exactly zero interest in him.

Dewan Hernandez was a decent player, 11ppg, for Miami but does not even begin to have the kind of skills the NBA wants from big men at this point (poor FT shooter, non-existent perimeter game). He too will be undrafted and may even have trouble catching on with a G-League team.

Markell Johnson is an excellent player, perhaps the best player on State's team this past season, with the kind of perimeter skills the NBA values. Most folks seem to think he will get feedback from NBA teams and then come back to school.

Jalen Lecque is a top 35 high school recruit who, thanks to a year of prep school, is technically eligible for the draft if he wants to enter. He won't get drafted and is making a mistake putting his name in.

-Jason "who is advising these kids?!?!!?" Evans

Indoor66
04-17-2019, 08:11 AM
Just so we are clear...

VJ King averaged less than 4 ppg this past season and played only 13 minutes per game. He is on course to graduate this summer so he would be eligible for a grad transfer. Bottom line, the NBA is going to have exactly zero interest in him.

Dewan Hernandez was a decent player, 11ppg, for Miami but does not even begin to have the kind of skills the NBA wants from big men at this point (poor FT shooter, non-existent perimeter game). He too will be undrafted and may even have trouble catching on with a G-League team.

Markell Johnson is an excellent player, perhaps the best player on State's team this past season, with the kind of perimeter skills the NBA values. Most folks seem to think he will get feedback from NBA teams and then come back to school.

Jalen Lecque is a top 35 high school recruit who, thanks to a year of prep school, is technically eligible for the draft if he wants to enter. He won't get drafted and is making a mistake putting his name in.

-Jason "who is advising these kids?!?!!?" Evans

The Sugar Plum Fairy $$$$$$$$$$$

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
04-17-2019, 08:21 AM
The Sugar Plum Fairy $$$$$$$$$$$

I was chastised a week ago for bemoaning the terrible advice that 60-85 kids would get again this year when only 64 draft slots exist, and a large number end up going to overseas players or (gasp!) seniors. A lot of underclassmen are being told *exactly* what they want to hear, so they follow that voice in their ear telling them to go for it.

Alas.

arnie
04-17-2019, 12:22 PM
Just so we are clear...

VJ King averaged less than 4 ppg this past season and played only 13 minutes per game. He is on course to graduate this summer so he would be eligible for a grad transfer. Bottom line, the NBA is going to have exactly zero interest in him.

Dewan Hernandez was a decent player, 11ppg, for Miami but does not even begin to have the kind of skills the NBA wants from big men at this point (poor FT shooter, non-existent perimeter game). He too will be undrafted and may even have trouble catching on with a G-League team.

Markell Johnson is an excellent player, perhaps the best player on State's team this past season, with the kind of perimeter skills the NBA values. Most folks seem to think he will get feedback from NBA teams and then come back to school.

Jalen Lecque is a top 35 high school recruit who, thanks to a year of prep school, is technically eligible for the draft if he wants to enter. He won't get drafted and is making a mistake putting his name in.

-Jason "who is advising these kids?!?!!?" Evans

I would guess some of these kids have no interest in college and/or in a dead end degree program and just want to get on with their lives. Nothing wrong with that. Of course, others are getting ridiculously optimistic advice.

HCheek37
04-17-2019, 02:14 PM
I would guess some of these kids have no interest in college and/or in a dead end degree program and just want to get on with their lives. Nothing wrong with that. Of course, others are getting ridiculously optimistic advice.

It also has to do with the new rule changes...if they don't get drafted they can return to school. Only problem with that is if their scholarship has already been given to an incoming player, then we could see some of these players transfer if their NBA dreams aren't realized.

PackMan97
04-17-2019, 02:21 PM
Markell Johnson is an excellent player, perhaps the best player on State's team this past season, with the kind of perimeter skills the NBA values. Most folks seem to think he will get feedback from NBA teams and then come back to school.

Jalen Lecque is a top 35 high school recruit who, thanks to a year of prep school, is technically eligible for the draft if he wants to enter. He won't get drafted and is making a mistake putting his name in.

-Jason "who is advising these kids?!?!!?" Evans

I do not believe the Johnson or Lecque are seriously considering the NBA. It is more of a formality so that they may receive feedback from the "undergraduate advisory committee" on their draft prospects. Now, if that report came back saying great things about their game and that they are likely draft picks this year, I imagine they'd be gone. They are more looking for feedback on their game and what they need to actually make it to the NBA. I expect both of them in Raleigh next season. It is an interesting note that you can only withdraw from the NBA draft twice. The NBA has a rule with three strikes and you aren't allowed into another draft :) So at some point with these kids that has to be taken into account. I think Lecque is making a mistake by using one of his two "freebies" this year.

That said, NC State has lost a few players to the professional ranks even when they knew they'd never make the NBA. I'm thinking most recently of Maverick Rowan and Trevor Lacey. They both entered the NBA draft knowing their future likely was overseas, but that they were ready for their professional careers to start.

gofurman
04-17-2019, 02:32 PM
Just so we are clear...

VJ King averaged less than 4 ppg this past season and played only 13 minutes per game. He is on course to graduate this summer so he would be eligible for a grad transfer. Bottom line, the NBA is going to have exactly zero interest in him.

Dewan Hernandez was a decent player, 11ppg, for Miami but does not even begin to have the kind of skills the NBA wants from big men at this point (poor FT shooter, non-existent perimeter game). He too will be undrafted and may even have trouble catching on with a G-League team.

Markell Johnson is an excellent player, perhaps the best player on State's team this past season, with the kind of perimeter skills the NBA values. Most folks seem to think he will get feedback from NBA teams and then come back to school.

Jalen Lecque is a top 35 high school recruit who, thanks to a year of prep school, is technically eligible for the draft if he wants to enter. He won't get drafted and is making a mistake putting his name in.

-Jason "who is advising these kids?!?!!?" Evans

CHEEK is doing a great job ! Thanks.
* Think we need to add Dewan Hernandez to Miami roster asI don’t see him listed on their team on Cheeks post?

Truth&Justise
04-17-2019, 03:35 PM
Wake Forest
Definitely Gone: Johnson (45%)
Maybe Leaving:
Staying: Hoard (75%), Childress (90%), Brown (72%), Wright (55%), Mucius (54%), Sarr (43%), Smart (32%)
Incoming: Ismael Massound (4* SF), Charles Coleman (3* C), Ody Oguama, Charles Coleman
Maybe Coming:


Cheek, thanks for keeping track of this. Two updates for Wake:

1) Despite graduating high school five years ago, Torry Johnson still has a year of eligibility (https://admin.wakeforestsports.com/roster.aspx?rp_id=367). He took a redshirt his first year at Northern Arizona, played one year, got a medical redshirt his third year, then played his fourth year. He graduated and transferred to Wake with two more years of eligiblity. So he's going to be a "sixth-year senior (https://www.bloggersodear.com/wake-forest-basketball-recruiting/2019/4/10/18304039/wake-forest-basketball-scholarship-chart-updated-april-2019-danny-manning-jaylen-hoard-deacs-acc)."

2) Jaylen Hoard declared for the NBA Draft, but without an agent (https://accsports.com/acc-news/wake-jaylen-hoard-fills-paperwork-no-agent-enters-nba-draft/).

Hoard is a guy to keep an eye on. A five-star prospect widely seen as a 1st round pick before the season, he now is not pojected to be selected at all. He put up decent numbers (13.1 points and 7.6 rebounds) with low efficiency last year. If he improves and begins to show the promise that made him a high recruit, he and senior Brandon Childress could be a pretty potent 1-2 punch.

Combine that with the fact that they're returning everybody, and Wake could be a team that surprises people next year (like they almost surprised Duke this year!). Depending on how things fall for other teams, I could see them at 9-9 or better in the ACC in 2020.

Edit: A third thing to change: Graduate transfer Ikenna Smart has exhausted his eligibility and will be gone. Wake will miss his size.

DarkstarWahoo
04-17-2019, 03:45 PM
He took a redshit his first year at Northern Arizona

I hope he saw a doctor at some point.

devildeac
04-17-2019, 05:06 PM
I hope he saw a doctor at some point.

Not my specialty...

(quite funny-nice catch :o)

rocketeli
04-17-2019, 05:08 PM
"Combine that with the fact that they're returning everybody, and Wake could be a team that surprises people next year (like they almost surprised Duke this year!). Depending on how things fall for other teams, I could see them at 9-9 or better in the ACC in 2020."

Not with Danny Manning still coaching. He's the gift that just keeps on giving...for opposing teams.

PackMan97
04-17-2019, 10:10 PM
NC State:
Definitely Coming:
Pat Andree (6’8″/225) - Graduate Transfer (Lehigh)

42% 3-pt shooting last year...will definitely help :)

Spanarkel
04-18-2019, 07:39 AM
In addition to Blackshear (wanna bet on him ending up at Texas A&M?), former top 75 recruit freshman Landers Nolley and part-time starter soph Wabissa Bede have both entered the transfer portal. Ouch! Va Tech may need some walk-ons to even field a team.

Landers Nolley has announced that he will play in Blacksburg in '19-'20.



Verified account

@JonRothstein
17h17 hours ago
More
Landers Nolley will return to Virginia Tech next season and will NOT transfer, per his Instagram page. HUGE news for Mike Young and the Hokies.

DarkstarWahoo
04-22-2019, 03:29 PM
UVa's Marco Anthony is in the transfer portal: https://twitter.com/jamieoakes247/status/1120394231267438593?s=12

I know he could theoretically come back, but if he took this step, he's gone. Bennett won't dick around with that.

Wahoo2000
04-22-2019, 03:41 PM
*If* Kyle Guy stays in the draft, UVA will only have 2 even semi-capable guards on the roster - Kihei Clark, and incoming top 60ish combo guard Casey Morsell. Definitely hoping we can get one more year out of Guy, or that Bennett has a pretty big trick up his sleeve vis a vis a sleeper guard recruit or a big time grad transfer.

While I'm happy for all the kids that these new "test the waters" rules help, it's got to be a nightmare for the coaches trying to fill out a roster.

907bluedevils
04-22-2019, 05:31 PM
Kyle Guy keeping his name in the draft
https://twitter.com/kylejguy5/status/1120438097920036870

JasonEvans
04-23-2019, 09:05 AM
Cole Anthony commits to Carolina... likely saving them from the middle-division finish. Grrrr.

Billy Dat
04-23-2019, 10:38 AM
Cole Anthony commits to Carolina... likely saving them from the middle-division finish. Grrrr.

He is going to be perfect in that system. That dude is a PROBLEM. Lock him up, Tre!!!!!!!

4Gen
04-23-2019, 12:21 PM
He is going to be perfect in that system. That dude is a PROBLEM. Lock him up, Tre!!!!!!!

Congrats to the heels for successfully recruiting this great guard, an undoubted OAD.

By loitering on Inside Carolina, I think I broke the code on the OAD philosophy at Carolina:

1. Carolina rejects wholeheartedly being a one and done factory, like Duke and Kentucky.

2. Roy's philosophy is to assemble teams with good to very good players, with just a sprinkle of one and dones.

3. Roy will never recruit over an existing player, because Roy is a very good person, who cares about his players (unlike Coach K), which restricts Roy's desire for OADs.

4. Roy may indeed offer almost all of the OADs, but the only ones he wants are the those who accept his offer. The others just head off to the factories, which is to Roy's liking.

5. In stark contrast to Coach K, Roy never tells OADs that they will start over upperclassmen. Coach K always starts OADs, which is how he gets their commitment. Folks like Bolden and Delaurier really got screwed because K lied to them. (I'm not sure why other OADs don't notice this situation.)

Matches
04-23-2019, 12:35 PM
5. In stark contrast to Coach K, Roy never tells OADs that they will start over upperclassmen, even if it is obvious they are one of the best players on the team and there is no plausible reason not to play them except to hide them from the NBA. Coach K always starts OADs, which is how he gets their commitment. Folks like Bolden and Delaurier really got screwed because K lied to them. (I'm not sure why other OADs don't notice this situation.)

:) Hello Nassir Little, Tony Bradley, Marvin Williams, Ed Davis, - I was going to say McAdoo but couldn't type while giggling.

Troublemaker
04-23-2019, 12:40 PM
Preview of next season: "Cole will play when he can defend as good as Seventh, dadgummit!"

NSDukeFan
04-23-2019, 12:55 PM
Preview of next season: "Cole will play when he can defend as good as Seventh, dadgummit!"

Could Roy pull off the unprecedented and turn 2 consecutive top 3 recruits into ineffective bench players? That would be impressive.

Dukehk
04-23-2019, 01:12 PM
The recruitment of cole was definitely an odd one. It seemed we were favorites for him until sometime midway through this season? All of a sudden he just dropped us (or we dropped him) and it was over in a flash.

Was it at all possible he was informed so early that Tre would be back? I find it hard to fathom since that was at a time when all of our freshmen were expected to go.

Without trying to sound arrogant, the commitment to the holes seemed like a secondary choice to me. Maybe the only “logical” last choice fit at a blue blood school that would give him the right platform to go one and done.

I’ve heard speculation that his dad didn’t want duke or that we had some disagreements during his recruitment? Maybe someone more knowledgeable could shed some light. But I really doubt we were out-recruited for him. It just seemed like he ran out of schools in which he could be the clear no 1 option so he had to settle.

He really seemed the perfect duke recruit until..well he wasn’t.

DarkstarWahoo
04-23-2019, 01:25 PM
A Duke player with UNLV roots? That’s either a perfect fit or “no way” - no in between.

duke4ever19
04-23-2019, 02:24 PM
Congrats to the heels for successfully recruiting this great guard, an undoubted OAD.

By loitering on Inside Carolina, I think I broke the code on the OAD philosophy at Carolina:

1. Carolina rejects wholeheartedly being a one and done factory, like Duke and Kentucky.

2. Roy's philosophy is to assemble teams with good to very good players, with just a sprinkle of one and dones.

3. Roy will never recruit over an existing player, because Roy is a very good person, who cares about his players (unlike Coach K), which restricts Roy's desire for OADs.

4. Roy may indeed offer almost all of the OADs, but the only ones he wants are the those who accept his offer. The others just head off to the factories, which is to Roy's liking.

5. In stark contrast to Coach K, Roy never tells OADs that they will start over upperclassmen. Coach K always starts OADs, which is how he gets their commitment. Folks like Bolden and Delaurier really got screwed because K lied to them. (I'm not sure why other OADs don't notice this situation.)

This reminds me of something called "Kettle Logic."

A man borrows a perfectly good kettle from his neighbor, but upon returning the kettle, the neighbor discovers that his kettle has been damaged, so he confronts the man who borrowed it, who gives the following excuses:

1) He returned the kettle back to the owner undamaged.
2) The kettle was broken when the owner gave it to him.
3) He never borrowed it in the first place.

uNC fans really need to get together and pick a narrative, because they all can't be true at the same time.

PackMan97
04-23-2019, 02:27 PM
uNC fans really need to get together and pick a narrative, because they all can't be true at the same time.

It doesn't matter if they are all true or not, all the other schools have the same narrative and that makes it ok.

JasonEvans
04-25-2019, 01:59 PM
Seventh Woods is transferring. Well, I guess this means Cole Anthony will start ;)

https://www.dailytarheel.com/article/2019/04/seventh-woods-transfer


"I wouldn't go back and change any decision I've made but I do feel like it's time for a change," Woods wrote on Instagram, "with that being said I plan on finishing my academic and basketball career elsewhere."

-Jason "insert your own 'academic career?!?!!' joke here..." Evans

CDu
04-25-2019, 02:10 PM
Seventh Woods is transferring. Well, I guess this means Cole Anthony will start ;)

https://www.dailytarheel.com/article/2019/04/seventh-woods-transfer



-Jason "insert your own 'academic career?!?!!' joke here..." Evans

Woods appears to be a classic case of a guy whose physical development beat his peers, but his skill development lagged too long. He was an elite recruit as an 8th/9th grader, but that was largely because he was nearly complete in physical build already. As other guys grew, he stayed about where he was. But he never progressed skills wise to compensate.

A somewhat sad story if you take away the UNC lens of it. I'm sure he had legitimate NBA dreams, and has the athleticism to have achieved them. But he never took the next steps in development needed. Too bad for him. Hopefully he finds a home that is more commensurate with his skill level.

UrinalCake
04-25-2019, 02:25 PM
seventh Woods is transferring from UNC. Did not see that coming.

Truth&Justise
04-25-2019, 02:57 PM
seventh Woods is transferring from UNC. Did not see that coming.

Typical Roy Williams, chasing one-and-dones and recruiting over his current players :rolleyes:

dukelifer
04-25-2019, 03:00 PM
seventh Woods is transferring from UNC. Did not see that coming.

He had a lot of buzz early. Never quite developed- but I suspect there is more there than meets the eye.

Steven43
04-25-2019, 03:07 PM
Typical Roy Williams, chasing one-and-dones and recruiting over his current players :rolleyes:

Nicely done, Truth&Justice

DevilYouKnow
04-25-2019, 03:25 PM
I remember in the early 90s when Dean's Myth was doing a great thing by enouraging his superstars to leave early. Contrast this to mean ol' Coach K who was holding his players for longer, because he was selfish.

Fast forward 25 years and it seems that Roy is holding his players longer because he is a mensch and mean ol' Coach K is just churning OADs through the system, because he is selfish.

ChillinDuke
04-25-2019, 04:54 PM
Seventh Woods is transferring. Well, I guess this means Cole Anthony will start ;)

https://www.dailytarheel.com/article/2019/04/seventh-woods-transfer



-Jason "insert your own 'academic career?!?!!' joke here..." Evans

So the starting lineup should be: Anthony, Robinson, Black, Brooks, and Bacot.

Bench is: Manley, Huffman, and now Anthony Harris? And Platek?

The starting lineup should be good. But we all know Roy likes to run, sub reasonably deep (especially early), and doesn't trust his freshman (especially early). So that bench is pretty scary if I'm a UNC fan. Am I missing someone?

They could really use a transfer.

- Chillin

HereBeforeCoachK
04-26-2019, 06:45 AM
seventh Woods is transferring from UNC. Did not see that coming.

...perhaps the coaching staff explained the Cole hard facts to Seventh....

lotusland
04-26-2019, 07:51 AM
...perhaps the coaching staff explained the Cole hard facts to Seventh...

Seventh broke the hearts of Gamecock faithful by picking the Cheats. There’s some fan speculation he might come home but their backcourt is in pretty good shape without him.

UrinalCake
04-26-2019, 07:54 AM
He had a lot of buzz early. Never quite developed- but I suspect there is more there than meets the eye.

It’s possible that having Anthony and Harris commit was what pushed out Woods. It’s also possible that Woods was already planning to transfer and Roy knew this and that’s why he pursued Harris. I guess we’ll never know. Duke has had its share of transfers over the years so I’m not going to throw stones, but I do enjoy the fact that the CHeats are facing the exact situation for which they so often criticize us.

On a side note, it just occurred to me that they will have a backcourt of Anthony and Anthony (first name and last name). Wonder if that’s ever happened before. We had a Tyus Jones and Matt Jones backcourt, that was pretty fun.

ChillinDuke
04-26-2019, 11:26 AM
It’s possible that having Anthony and Harris commit was what pushed out Woods. It’s also possible that Woods was already planning to transfer and Roy knew this and that’s why he pursued Harris. I guess we’ll never know. Duke has had its share of transfers over the years so I’m not going to throw stones, but I do enjoy the fact that the CHeats are facing the exact situation for which they so often criticize us.

On a side note, it just occurred to me that they will have a backcourt of Anthony and Anthony (first name and last name). Wonder if that’s ever happened before. We had a Tyus Jones and Matt Jones backcourt, that was pretty fun.

Coincidental, for sure. But not likely impactful. Our Jones backcourt played, with Tyus averaging 33.9 mpg and Matt 21.7. The Anthony backcourt will likely hit the Tyus level but not the Matt level. As the #65 recruit, Anthony Harris is likely not an ACC-level impact player as a freshman. But he may have to be as UNC seems to have almost no one on the current roster that projects as a serviceable backup guard.

- Chillin

PackMan97
04-26-2019, 04:56 PM
...perhaps the coaching staff explained the Cole hard facts to Seventh...

Yup, the hard facts that Seventh committed to UNC when no one else would and his thanks for being among the UNC faithful is to get recruited over at the earliest opportunity.

Enjoy the fact that you could have been something at another school, but you choose a school whose loyalty only extends as far as you are useful.

gofurman
04-29-2019, 08:53 PM
Cheek, would you have time to
Update this ? Anthony to UNC etc. happenings at VT ...

gofurman
04-30-2019, 12:42 AM
Cheek, would you have time to
Update this ? Top 3 recruit and awesome 5 star PG Cole Anthony to UNC etc. also top 70 4 star recruit guard Anthony Harris to UNC. happenings at VT ...

Also Duke get Hurt and Stanley. Maybe lose Bolden or DeLaurier (though I doubt Javin goes). And is Blackshear of VT in the draft? Anyway. Be great to catch this list up bc I think the deadline to declare for draft has passed. Though players can still return at east you know if a guy (Tre) isn't leaving bc deadline passed

Also I think I saw UNC got a transfer from mid-major- . Christian Keeling from Charleston Southern

CDu
04-30-2019, 07:15 AM
Also Duke get Hurt and Stanley. Maybe lose Bolden or DeLaurier (though I doubt Javin goes). And is Blackshear of VT in the draft? Anyway. Be great to catch this list up bc I think the deadline to declare for draft has passed. Though players can still return at east you know if a guy (Tre) isn't leaving bc deadline passed

Also I think I saw UNC got a transfer from mid-major- . Christian Keeling from Charleston Southern

You know it doesn’t have to be Cheek that updates it every time...

PackMan97
04-30-2019, 10:41 AM
Also I think I saw UNC got a transfer from mid-major- . Christian Keeling from Charleston Southern

Charleston Southern is NOT a mid-major. That said, Keeling is one of the better grad transfers available.

9f

Spanarkel
04-30-2019, 12:59 PM
Charleston Southern is NOT a mid-major. That said, Keeling is one of the better grad transfers available.

9f

Charleston Southern IS definitely considered a mid-major(in basketball, at least).

I'm familiar with Charleston Southern's program as a local Athens, GA player was the Class 5A Player of the Year in '16-'17 and currently starts for CS. (Wendell Carter was Class 4A POTY that season).

gofurman
04-30-2019, 01:00 PM
You know it doesn’t have to be Cheek that updates it every time...

Would be happy to do it. But didn’t want to upset his system. He may consider a guy gone that I think is maybe returning ?

CDu
04-30-2019, 01:33 PM
Charleston Southern IS definitely considered a mid-major(in basketball, at least).

I'm familiar with Charleston Southern's program as a local Athens, GA player was the Class 5A Player of the Year in '16-'17 and currently starts for CS. (Wendell Carter was Class 4A POTY that season).

I think the argument might be that the Big South is "low major" and not "mid major". Otherwise, what are the "low majors"?

JasonEvans
04-30-2019, 01:43 PM
Charleston Southern IS definitely considered a mid-major(in basketball, at least).

I hate to play the pedantic definition game but...

Major or Mid-Major are a function not of the program, but of the conference you play in. You can be a good team in a bad conference but it does not make you a "mid-major." Similarly, you can be a really bad team from a big conference and you will still be a major conference team. Just ask Cal and Washington St about that.

Charleston Southern plays in the Big South. The champion of that league was given a #16 seed in the NCAA tourney this year (and that is what usually happens) and the BSouth is generally rated about the 20th best in the country. Sorry, but I doubt most folks would consider that one of the mid-major conferences. I generally think of the AAC, A10, MAC, MVC, WAC, WCC, CUSA, MWC, and maybe one or two others as the mid-majors. The Big South does not make the cut.

-Jason "not sure why we are debating this... strongly considering not even bothering to post this... damn, too late" Evans

PackMan97
04-30-2019, 02:45 PM
-Jason "not sure why we are debating this... strongly considering not even bothering to post this... damn, too late" Evans

Because I have a pathological need to make sure that nothing good is ever said about UNC unless it's veracity is unassailable. ;)

Spanarkel
04-30-2019, 02:49 PM
I hate to play the pedantic definition game but...

Major or Mid-Major are a function not of the program, but of the conference you play in. You can be a good team in a bad conference but it does not make you a "mid-major." Similarly, you can be a really bad team from a big conference and you will still be a major conference team. Just ask Cal and Washington St about that.

Charleston Southern plays in the Big South. The champion of that league was given a #16 seed in the NCAA tourney this year (and that is what usually happens) and the BSouth is generally rated about the 20th best in the country. Sorry, but I doubt most folks would consider that one of the mid-major conferences. I generally think of the AAC, A10, MAC, MVC, WAC, WCC, CUSA, MWC, and maybe one or two others as the mid-majors. The Big South does not make the cut.

-Jason "not sure why we are debating this... strongly considering not even bothering to post this... damn, too late" Evans

I'll repeat my factual assertion: the Big South is considered to be a mid-major conference. Have you ever seen the mid-major Top 25 poll that is released throughout the hoops season? This is put out by CollegeInsider(a division of CBS Sports), and the Big South Conference is definitely included(see note at the bottom of the poll/www.collegeinsider.com). Also the SB Nation list of mid-major conferences lists the Big South Conference as a mid-major(https://www.midmajormadness.com/pages/mid-major-teams-by-conference), as does Wikipedia.

PackMan97
04-30-2019, 03:10 PM
I'll repeat my factual assertion: the Big South is considered to be a mid-major conference. Have you ever seen the mid-major Top 25 poll that is released throughout the hoops season? This is put out by CollegeInsider(a division of CBS Sports), and the Big South Conference is definitely included(see note at the bottom of the poll/www.collegeinsider.com). Also the SB Nation list of mid-major conferences lists the Big South Conference as a mid-major(https://www.midmajormadness.com/pages/mid-major-teams-by-conference), as does Wikipedia.

There are 32 conferences in Div-I college basketball.

The top 5 are called the P5.
That leaves 27.

Your "mid-major" reference page lists 24 of the remaining 27 as mid-majors. Seriously?

I think the typical "mid-major" definition is typically a few different things:
1) A conference that regularly puts a team other than their automatic qualifier into the NCAAT.
2) A conference that has regular success in the NCAAT as defined by at least winning games in the R64 and making it to the S16 on occassion
3) A conference that regularly has players play in the NBA.

To my knowledge, the Big South is three strikes, they are out.

sagegrouse
04-30-2019, 03:13 PM
There are 32 conferences in Div-I college basketball.

The top 5 are called the P5.
That leaves 27.

Your "mid-major" reference page lists 24 of the remaining 27 as mid-majors. Seriously?

I think the typical "mid-major" definition is typically a few different things:
1) A conference that regularly puts a team other than their automatic qualifier into the NCAAT.
2) A conference that has regular success in the NCAAT as defined by at least winning games in the R64 and making it to the S16 on occassion
3) A conference that regularly has players play in the NBA.

To my knowledge, the Big South is three strikes, they are out.

"Mid-major" is a lecture course, not a seminar -- there are a lot of chairs in the auditorium.

Indoor66
04-30-2019, 03:33 PM
Can we concede mid-major and get on to something worth discussing?

MChambers
04-30-2019, 05:23 PM
Because I have a healthy and understandable need to make sure that nothing good is ever said about UNC unless it's veracity is unassailable. ;)

Fixed it for you.

MChambers
04-30-2019, 05:25 PM
Can we concede mid-major and get on to something worth discussing?

It's the offseason, so just hang on. This thread will soon devolve into a minutes discussion.

NSDukeFan
04-30-2019, 05:28 PM
It's the offseason, so just hang on. This thread will soon devolve into a minutes discussion.

Woohoo, when does that start? (Not even sarcastic as I am one of the people who like thinking about minutes, though I have no idea who is going to win the battles for wing minutes.)

JasonEvans
05-01-2019, 07:35 AM
I have no idea who is going to win the battles for wing minutes.)

That is ok, neither does Coach K at this point. We have 3 (or 4, if you think Hurt could play some wing) freshmen wings coming in and a couple guys on the roster who will get older and likely better over the summer.

budwom
05-01-2019, 08:05 AM
I wouldn't even think of making a prediction about minutes, but I do feel that it's going to be interesting given that (in theory, preliminarily) we should have nine or ten guys capable of playing and a coach who is most comfortable playing 7.5 or so.

Spanarkel
05-01-2019, 08:59 AM
There are 32 conferences in Div-I college basketball.

The top 5 are called the P5.
That leaves 27.

Your "mid-major" reference page lists 24 of the remaining 27 as mid-majors. Seriously?

I think the typical "mid-major" definition is typically a few different things:
1) A conference that regularly puts a team other than their automatic qualifier into the NCAAT.
2) A conference that has regular success in the NCAAT as defined by at least winning games in the R64 and making it to the S16 on occassion
3) A conference that regularly has players play in the NBA.

To my knowledge, the Big South is three strikes, they are out.


Your criteria for mid-major conferences are wildly incompatible with the modern landscape of college basketball. I'm not sure if you're aware of the following facts:

From 2007-2016, only 23 mid-major teams received an at-large bid to the NCAAT(Gonzaga with 3/St. Mary's with 2).

77% of mid-majors have lost in the play-in/R64 games.

Mid-major wins in the R32 games are very infrequent(15 over this ten year period, with the majority from Gonzaga/Butler).

I don't follow the NBA so I can't speak to your third criteria.

By your criteria(meeting 1-2/3 criteria), only a very few conferences could be considered "mid-major," and most of these conferences are already acknowledged as "high majors" anyway(Big East/West Coast/A10).

If it gives you some special solace to regard the vast majority of D1 basketball conferences(and hence their teams) as "low major," you are certainly entitled to your opinion on this subject, but the majority of people writing about college basketball today appear to disagree with you. If you have the desire, please cite a reference listing the Big South Conference as a low major.

https://blog.qlik.com/tourney-time-analyzing-a-decade-of-mid-majors

Indoor66
05-01-2019, 09:11 AM
Your criteria for mid-major conferences are wildly incompatible with the modern landscape of college basketball. I'm not sure if you're aware of the following facts:

From 2007-2016, only 23 mid-major teams received an at-large bid to the NCAAT(Gonzaga with 3/St. Mary's with 2).

77% of mid-majors have lost in the play-in/R64 games.

Mid-major wins in the R32 games are very infrequent(15 over this ten year period, with the majority from Gonzaga/Butler).

I don't follow the NBA so I can't speak to your third criteria.

By your criteria(meeting 1-2/3 criteria), only a very few conferences could be considered "mid-major," and most of these conferences are already acknowledged as "high majors" anyway(Big East/West Coast/A10).

If it gives you some special solace to regard the vast majority of D1 basketball conferences(and hence their teams) as "low major," you are certainly entitled to your opinion on this subject, but the majority of people writing about college basketball today appear to disagree with you. If you have the desire, please cite a reference listing the Big South Conference as a low major.

https://blog.qlik.com/tourney-time-analyzing-a-decade-of-mid-majors

Give 'em all a trophy.

sagegrouse
05-01-2019, 10:08 AM
If it gives you some special solace to regard the vast majority of D1 basketball conferences(and hence their teams) as "low major," you are certainly entitled to your opinion on this subject, but the majority of people writing about college basketball today appear to disagree with you. If you have the desire, please cite a reference listing the Big South Conference as a low major.

https://blog.qlik.com/tourney-time-analyzing-a-decade-of-mid-majors

I am reminded of what the late Jim McKay said: "Like all short people, I refer to myself as a man of average height."

PackMan97
05-01-2019, 10:31 AM
By your criteria(meeting 1-2/3 criteria), only a very few conferences could be considered "mid-major," and most of these conferences are already acknowledged as "high majors" anyway(Big East/West Coast/A10).


I'll admit this is the first time I've heard the term, "high major". Isn't that the definition of a P5 school? Though, given that I haven't really watched ESPN in quite a few years, perhaps the terminology has changed beneath my feet.

sagegrouse
05-01-2019, 10:40 AM
I am reminded of what the late Jim McKay said: "Like all short people, I refer to myself as a man of average height."

Or, are we gonna give status to such an oxymoron as "low major?" Never heard of it and probably never will (outside of this thread).

devildeac
05-01-2019, 11:25 AM
I'll admit this is the first time I've heard the term, "high major". Isn't that the definition of a P5 school? Though, given that I haven't really watched ESPN in quite a few years, perhaps the terminology has changed beneath my feet.


Or, are we gonna give status to such an oxymoron as "low major?" Never heard of it and probably never will (outside of this thread).

Or, we could have a major major...

JasonEvans
05-01-2019, 12:07 PM
most of these conferences are already acknowledged as "high majors" anyway(Big East/West Coast/A10).

Look, this is getting silly and I think we all agree about that...

But the notion that the West Coast Conference or the A10 are "high majors" who belong in the same tier as the ACC, SEC, B10, P10, and B12 is laughable.

arnie
05-01-2019, 12:12 PM
Look, this is getting silly and I think we all agree about that...

But the notion that the West Coast Conference or the A10 are "high majors" who belong in the same tier as the ACC, SEC, B10, P10, and B12 is laughable.

Take out the P10 reference and I agree with you.

CDu
05-01-2019, 12:14 PM
Or, are we gonna give status to such an oxymoron as "low major?" Never heard of it and probably never will (outside of this thread).

I guess the idea of a low major would be that all D1 conferences are "major" conferences, and thus the weaker/weakest conferences in D1 would be the low-majors. But I could get behind the idea of no such thing as a low-major. And that would even further suggest that the Big South (who frequently produces a play-in candidate for their tourney representative) is not a mid-major if the bottom of D1 gets no designation.

That said, I agree that it's a silly discussion. The term is mid-major is clearly subjective, so there isn't a "factual" statement of which conferences/teams are mid-majors.

Spanarkel
05-01-2019, 01:45 PM
Look, this is getting silly and I think we all agree about that...

But the notion that the West Coast Conference or the A10 are "high majors" who belong in the same tier as the ACC, SEC, B10, P10, and B12 is laughable.

Is it laughable that the A10 has the highest conference winning percentage in the NCAAT since its '85 expansion out of conferences averaging at least 4 NCAAT games/yr(except for P5/Big East)?

https://www.ncaa.com/news/basketball-men/2019-02-28/how-every-conference-has-fared-march-madness-1985

Rich
05-01-2019, 01:52 PM
Or, are we gonna give status to such an oxymoron as "low major?" Never heard of it and probably never will (outside of this thread).


Or, we could have a major major...

I prefer Lee Major

CDu
05-01-2019, 02:00 PM
Is it laughable that the A10 has the highest conference winning percentage in the NCAAT since its '85 expansion out of conferences averaging at least 4 NCAAT games/yr(except for P5/Big East)?

https://www.ncaa.com/news/basketball-men/2019-02-28/how-every-conference-has-fared-march-madness-1985

Two things:

1. Your exception is kind of important, no? If folks are saying that the "high majors" are the P5 and Big East, then saying "best conference winning percentage over a 35 year period outside of the P5 and Big East" doesn't really provide much of a counter argument. That's basically arguing the A10 is the best mid-major.

2. The A10 is not the same A10 that it was 35 years ago. It used to include - at various points in that window - UMass (when they were GOOD), West Virginia, Temple (when they were GOOD), Xavier, each of whom contributed substantively to the success of the conference in the NCAAs. But conference reallignment stripped the best teams from the conference, with teams going to the Big East (before the Big East dismantled into a "Catholic 7" Big East) and AAC. UMass is still there, but they are a shell of the program that they were in the 1980s and 1990s. The conference has brought in replacements from other mid-majors (VCU, St Louis) and some big fish in the small ponds (Davidson, George Mason, Richmond). But that conference is definitely not the same as it was when Temple (with Chaney) and UMass (with Calipari) were relevant.

CDu
05-01-2019, 02:17 PM
Two things:

1. Your exception is kind of important, no? If folks are saying that the "high majors" are the P5 and Big East, then saying "best conference winning percentage over a 35 year period outside of the P5 and Big East" doesn't really provide much of a counter argument. That's basically arguing the A10 is the best mid-major.

2. The A10 is not the same A10 that it was 35 years ago. It used to include - at various points in that window - UMass (when they were GOOD), West Virginia, Temple (when they were GOOD), Xavier, each of whom contributed substantively to the success of the conference in the NCAAs. But conference reallignment stripped the best teams from the conference, with teams going to the Big East (before the Big East dismantled into a "Catholic 7" Big East) and AAC. UMass is still there, but they are a shell of the program that they were in the 1980s and 1990s. The conference has brought in replacements from other mid-majors (VCU, St Louis) and some big fish in the small ponds (Davidson, George Mason, Richmond). But that conference is definitely not the same as it was when Temple (with Chaney) and UMass (with Calipari) were relevant.

And it isn't even true that the A10 has the best non-P5/Big East tourney resume among those with 4+ games per season since 1985. The AAC (founded in 2014) and CUSA (beginning in 1995) both meet the criteria and have better records in the tourney (both over .500). So even ignoring that the conference isn't nearly as good as it was in the 1980s and 1990s when it built its tourney resume, it doesn't even actually hold the distinction of #7 behind the P5 and Big East.

JasonEvans
05-01-2019, 02:32 PM
Is it laughable that the A10 has the highest conference winning percentage in the NCAAT since its '85 expansion out of conferences averaging at least 4 NCAAT games/yr(except for P5/Big East)?

https://www.ncaa.com/news/basketball-men/2019-02-28/how-every-conference-has-fared-march-madness-1985

So, you are going to argue that the A10 belongs in the same tier as the P5 + Big East? Is that what you are saying? And your evidence for that is that the A10 has won 47.35% of their NCAA tourney games since 1985. Am I understanding you right?

I would also note that your convenient 4 NCAA tourney games/year exclusion allows you to ignore the AAC, CUSA, and Horizon from the conversation (as well as the now defunct Metro and Great Midwest). Why did you pick the arbitrary 4 games/year? Is there something magical about that number? All these other leagues often put multiple teams in the tourney so we are not talking about tiny sample sizes.

Look, the A10 produces good teams and is clearly a notch above many conferences, but there is a reason that when Wojo was offered the Dayton job (one of the better A10 teams) he turned it down to remain an assistant at Duke.

-Jason "can you tell it is summer, yet?" Evans

NSDukeFan
05-01-2019, 02:38 PM
Two things:

1. Your exception is kind of important, no? If folks are saying that the "high majors" are the P5 and Big East, then saying "best conference winning percentage over a 35 year period outside of the P5 and Big East" doesn't really provide much of a counter argument. That's basically arguing the A10 is the best mid-major.

2. The A10 is not the same A10 that it was 35 years ago. It used to include - at various points in that window - UMass (when they were GOOD), West Virginia, Temple (when they were GOOD), Xavier, each of whom contributed substantively to the success of the conference in the NCAAs. But conference reallignment stripped the best teams from the conference, with teams going to the Big East (before the Big East dismantled into a "Catholic 7" Big East) and AAC. UMass is still there, but they are a shell of the program that they were in the 1980s and 1990s. The conference has brought in replacements from other mid-majors (VCU, St Louis) and some big fish in the small ponds (Davidson, George Mason, Richmond). But that conference is definitely not the same as it was when Temple (with Chaney) and UMass (with Calipari) were relevant.
Is it time to post the Calipari-Chaney clip? That never gets old.

https://youtu.be/r6jUpHClybQ

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
05-01-2019, 02:44 PM
Is it time to post the Calipari-Chaney clip? That never gets old.

https://youtu.be/r6jUpHClybQ

Please someone give this poster sporks. I cannot.

CDu
05-01-2019, 02:57 PM
So, you are going to argue that the A10 belongs in the same tier as the P5 + Big East? Is that what you are saying? And your evidence for that is that the A10 has won 47.35% of their NCAA tourney games since 1985. Am I understanding you right?

I would also note that your convenient 4 NCAA tourney games/year exclusion allows you to ignore the AAC, CUSA, and Horizon from the conversation (as well as the now defunct Metro and Great Midwest). Why did you pick the arbitrary 4 games/year? Is there something magical about that number? All these other leagues often put multiple teams in the tourney so we are not talking about tiny sample sizes.

Look, the A10 produces good teams and is clearly a notch above many conferences, but there is a reason that when Wojo was offered the Dayton job (one of the better A10 teams) he turned it down to remain an assistant at Duke.

-Jason "can you tell it is summer, yet?" Evans

And actually, the AAC and CUSA DO meet the 4-games-per-year requirement. They have averaged 4+ tourney games per year over the period of their existence.

Indoor66
05-01-2019, 03:47 PM
I prefer Lee Major

I prefer Farrah.

Wahoo2000
05-01-2019, 05:27 PM
Is it time to post the Calipari-Chaney clip? That never gets old.

https://youtu.be/r6jUpHClybQ

And not to take the thread WAY too far OT, but can someone either explain or provide a link to the circumstances that caused Chaney to go nuts? (looking for specifics, not just, "Cal is an I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this." or whatever)

I've definitely SEEN that clip before, but can't remember the details.

TIA

NSDukeFan
05-01-2019, 05:46 PM
And not to take the thread WAY too far OT, but can someone either explain or provide a link to the circumstances that caused Chaney to go nuts? (looking for specifics, not just, "Cal is an I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this." or whatever)

I've definitely SEEN that clip before, but can't remember the details.

TIA

I think Calipari was being a wanker and I don’t believe Chaney approved. 😀

MChambers
05-01-2019, 06:08 PM
I prefer Lee Major

Or Major Major Major from Catch 22.

CDu
05-01-2019, 06:30 PM
And not to take the thread WAY too far OT, but can someone either explain or provide a link to the circumstances that caused Chaney to go nuts? (looking for specifics, not just, "Cal is an I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this." or whatever)

I've definitely SEEN that clip before, but can't remember the details.

TIA

Chaney had heard from an assistant that Calipari was complaining to the officials after the game (that Cal’s team had won). And he lost it. It was, sort of like when Coach K admonished Dillon Brooks after Oregon beat us, a moment the veteran coach would probably like to have back. In this case, Chaney was probably in the wrong. Not his finest moment.

camion
05-01-2019, 06:42 PM
Chaney had heard from an assistant that Calipari was complaining to the officials after the game (that Cal’s team had won). And he lost it. It was, sort of like when Coach K admonished Dillon Brooks after Oregon beat us, a moment the veteran coach would probably like to have back. In this case, Chaney was probably in the wrong. Not his finest moment.

It is possible for both coaches to be in the wrong.


Just sayin'.

CDu
05-01-2019, 06:52 PM
It is possible for both coaches to be in the wrong.


Just sayin'.

From those who were there, it sounds like Chaney was in the wrong, and that Cal hadn’t actually gone after the refs post-game. Likely Chaney was frustrated at losing to the obnoxious Cal, in a tough one no less, and hearing (perhaps wrongly, but hearing nonetheless) that Cal had gone after the refs set him off.

NSDukeFan
05-01-2019, 06:54 PM
Chaney had heard from an assistant that Calipari was complaining to the officials after the game (that Cal’s team had won). And he lost it. It was, sort of like when Coach K admonished Dillon Brooks after Oregon beat us, a moment the veteran coach would probably like to have back. In this case, Chaney was probably in the wrong. Not his finest moment.

I’ve always assumed Chaney was in the right and Calipari was in the wrong. I think I will continue to believe that.

Spanarkel
05-02-2019, 08:01 AM
And it isn't even true that the A10 has the best non-P5/Big East tourney resume among those with 4+ games per season since 1985. The AAC (founded in 2014) and CUSA (beginning in 1995) both meet the criteria and have better records in the tourney (both over .500). So even ignoring that the conference isn't nearly as good as it was in the 1980s and 1990s when it built its tourney resume, it doesn't even actually hold the distinction of #7 behind the P5 and Big East.


From the 2011-12 season to the 2015-16 season, the A10 was the RPI ranked no. 6(one year) or no. 7(four years)conference(I realize that the no. 7 in your post above refers to NCAAT performance). That's not ancient history, as you suggest in your post.

My choice of 4 NCAAT games per year is arbitrary(of course): it seemed like a reasonable figure.

I am not saying the A10 or the West Coast conferences are consistently as good as the P5/Big East, but in some recent years the A10 and the West Coast have been ranked higher than the SEC and even ACC(and several years ahead of P10/12).

CDu
05-02-2019, 08:21 AM
[/FONT]


From the 2011-12 season to the 2015-16 season, the A10 was the RPI ranked no. 6(one year) or no. 7(four years)conference(I realize that the no. 7 in your post above refers to NCAAT performance). That's not ancient history, as you suggest in your post.

My choice of 4 NCAAT games per year is arbitrary(of course): it seemed like a reasonable figure.

I am not saying the A10 or the West Coast conferences are consistently as good as the P5/Big East, but in some recent years the A10 and the West Coast have been ranked higher than the SEC and even ACC(and several years ahead of P10/12).

2012 IS ancient history when talking about the A10. The conference lost a few of its best teams to realignment since then, and lost the key coach of one of two of its other best teams (VCU and Dayton) as well. The last 3 years? RPI #8, #11, and #11. And there is little reason to believe that will get better.

At one time, the A10 May have warranted discussion as a high-major. Not anymore. And not for several years.

Billy Dat
05-02-2019, 11:06 AM
And not to take the thread WAY too far OT, but can someone either explain or provide a link to the circumstances that caused Chaney to go nuts? (looking for specifics, not just, "Cal is an I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this." or whatever)

I've definitely SEEN that clip before, but can't remember the details.

TIA

You are in luck as an excellent and thorough oral history on this incident was published a few months ago
https://dailycollegian.com/2019/02/ill-kill-you-an-oral-history-of-the-john-calipari-john-chaney-feud-25-years-later/

Dukehk
05-02-2019, 12:34 PM
I know this might backfire and I could end up with pie on my face..

But it just seems like the holes are desperately trying to fill all sorts of gaps in their team through grad transfers from non-power conference schools who probably would never have been looked at twice coming out of high school.

It warms my heart actually because next year they are going to be in an even bigger hole trying to fill the gaps for yet another year of having 3-4 starters/key players leave. Just continually treading water with no real recruiting strategy in place and absolutely no long term roster planning at all. Good ol woy seems to have lost his touch of having top 20 players stay all four years.

Its basically just fire off as many schollies to grad transfer as you can, and see who bites!

Come on down to the circus known as the unx basketball team justin pierce (absolutely and definitively no relation to Paul Pierce, and might just even have the same talent level as his left pinky toe)

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/26655648/tar-heels-add-haul-grad-transfer-pierce

;)

whereinthehellami
05-02-2019, 12:58 PM
I know this might backfire and I could end up with pie on my face..

But it just seems like the holes are desperately trying to fill all sorts of gaps in their team through grad transfers from non-power conference schools who probably would never have been looked at twice coming out of high school.

It warms my heart actually because next year they are going to be in an even bigger hole trying to fill the gaps for yet another year of having 3-4 starters/key players leave. Just continually treading water with no real recruiting strategy in place and absolutely no long term roster planning at all. Good ol woy seems to have lost his touch of having top 20 players stay all four years.

Its basically just fire off as many schollies to grad transfer as you can, and see who bites!

Come on down to the circus known as the unx basketball team justin pierce (absolutely and definitively no relation to Paul Pierce, and might just even have the same talent level as his left pinky toe)

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/26655648/tar-heels-add-haul-grad-transfer-pierce

;)

I don't think it is really much different than stocking your teams with one and dones who will not be back the following year causing teams to scramble and fill in those spots. It might actually be better. The two guys the UNCheats are bringing in, have established themselves as legit D1 players with experience and maturity. Are they P5 caliber? To be determined for sure. But prospective one and dones are highly speculative also. Another benefit with the current UNCheats situation is that Roy knows for sure that they are gone next year and can recruit to that.

I'm going to go out on an unpopular limb and say that UNCheats does as well or better than Duke does next year in the ACC, barring injury developments or any other roster changes. And yes I saw the Boogie news. And no I'm not interested in a pie bet.

wobatus
05-02-2019, 01:02 PM
2012 IS ancient history when talking about the A10. The conference lost a few of its best teams to realignment since then, and lost the key coach of one of two of its other best teams (VCU and Dayton) as well. The last 3 years? RPI #8, #11, and #11. And there is little reason to believe that will get better.

At one time, the A10 May have warranted discussion as a high-major. Not anymore. And not for several years.

They put in 6 teams in 2014. A down year this year, but usually they get 3. Losing Archie Miller, Hurley and Wade as coaches hurt some, although VCU bounced back this year. I think they'll be a little better this coming year.

My NYC area team is Fordham. Ugh. Can't buy a break. Just lost their best player, Nick Honor, transfer to Clemson.

Dukehk
05-02-2019, 01:08 PM
I don't think it is really much different than stocking your teams with one and dones who will not be back the following year causing teams to scramble and fill in those spots. It might actually be better. The two guys the UNCheats are bringing in, have established themselves as legit D1 players with experience and maturity. Are they P5 caliber? To be determined for sure. But prospective one and dones are highly speculative also. Another benefit with the current UNCheats situation is that Roy knows for sure that they are gone next year and can recruit to that.

I'm going to go out on an unpopular limb and say that UNCheats does as well or better than Duke does next year in the ACC, barring injury developments or any other roster changes. And yes I saw the Boogie news. And no I'm not interested in a pie bet.

The difference is that we've been recruiting and developing relationships with these "one and dones" for likely many years before they even step foot on campus. Also, whilst we do have a lot of early departures every year, we also return alot of players as well. Players that we have recruited and planned out accordingly to fit our roster for the years to come.

There is also always a chance that these "one and dones" come back for multiple years (see: Tre, Bolden) and become the backbone of our team.

With a grad transfer they are only there for a year and the coaching staff is prohibited from any meaningful relationship with the player until they graduate. Its the ultimate stop gap method. Not that I'm against it, but you can sense the desperation and poor planning when you start to recruit 2 or 3 of these players every year because you miss out on your primary HS targets.

CDu
05-02-2019, 01:41 PM
They put in 6 teams in 2014. A down year this year, but usually they get 3. Losing Archie Miller, Hurley and Wade as coaches hurt some, although VCU bounced back this year. I think they'll be a little better this coming year.

My NYC area team is Fordham. Ugh. Can't buy a break. Just lost their best player, Nick Honor, transfer to Clemson.

It's not just a down year this year. They were the 11th best conference the past two years, and the 8th best before that.

It's a solid mid-major league. Usually one of the best mid-majors. But is not a high-major, which was the point of this discussion.

Wahoo2000
05-02-2019, 03:10 PM
You are in luck as an excellent and thorough oral history on this incident was published a few months ago
https://dailycollegian.com/2019/02/ill-kill-you-an-oral-history-of-the-john-calipari-john-chaney-feud-25-years-later/

Awesome. Thanks for that. I'd spork you, but "must spread some love around" first....

Spanarkel
05-03-2019, 08:16 AM
It's not just a down year this year. They were the 11th best conference the past two years, and the 8th best before that.

It's a solid mid-major league. Usually one of the best mid-majors. But is not a high-major, which was the point of this discussion.


By stating this, you are saying that the caliber of teams in the Ivy League is overall superior to those in the A10. Do you really believe that? The Ivy League has some solid teams and players who have played/will play in the NBA, but the Ivy League is 8-33 in NCAAT play since expansion.

scottdude8
05-03-2019, 08:51 AM
UNC just got arguably the best grad transfer on the market, Justin Pierce, who chose them over my Wolverines no less. UNC seems like they’re trying to do the Texas Tech model this year.

Check out this article from Detroit Free Press:

Michigan basketball's top grad-transfer target picks North Carolina

https://www.freep.com/story/sports/college/university-michigan/wolverines/2019/05/02/michigan-basketball-justin-pierce-north-carolina/3646675002/

CDu
05-03-2019, 09:02 AM
By stating this, you are saying that the caliber of teams in the Ivy League is overall superior to those in the A10. Do you really believe that? The Ivy League has some solid teams and players who have played/will play in the NBA, but the Ivy League is 8-33 in NCAAT play since expansion.

I was just using your metric. You made the argument that the A10 should be considered a high major, and presented RPI rank to support it. I disagree, and presented the counterargument using your metrics.

The A10 is a strong mid-major. But they are a mid-major.

luvdahops
05-03-2019, 09:40 AM
UNC just got arguably the best grad transfer on the market, Justin Pierce, who chose them over my Wolverines no less. UNC seems like they’re trying to do the Texas Tech model this year.

Check out this article from Detroit Free Press:

Michigan basketball's top grad-transfer target picks North Carolina

https://www.freep.com/story/sports/college/university-michigan/wolverines/2019/05/02/michigan-basketball-justin-pierce-north-carolina/3646675002/

Pierce played at a rival high school here in the Western suburbs of Chicago, and I saw him up play live and up close several times. He is very skilled and a tough competitor, but I think he will struggle against the athleticism he will face in the ACC. A likely rotation player, and possible starter, but not really an impact player in my view.

sagegrouse
05-03-2019, 10:01 AM
I was just using your metric. You made the argument that the A10 should be considered a high major, and presented RPI rank to support it. I disagree, and presented the counterargument using your metrics.

The A10 is a strong mid-major. But they are a mid-major.

I am surprised that a crackerjack Pratt grad would wander into the thickets of epistemological discussions rather than stick to items more easily quantified.. It is surely beneath you. High major, mid-major, the non-existent "low major." Rabbinical and Jesuit discussions. Thomas Aquinas, oxymorons, etc.

Kindly,
Sage

JasonEvans
05-03-2019, 10:44 AM
Pierce played at a rival high school here in the Western suburbs of Chicago, and I saw him up play live and up close several times. He is very skilled and a tough competitor, but I think he will struggle against the athleticism he will face in the ACC. A likely rotation player, and possible starter, but not really an impact player in my view.

He was third-team All-CAA. He will be in the rotation for UNC, Roy likes to play a lot of players, but I doubt he will be a double-digit scorer in the ACC.

--Jason "and though I really respect Scottdude's knowledge, there is no way Pierce is the top grad transfer on the market... Kerry Blackshear is miles ahead of him" Evans

scottdude8
05-03-2019, 11:18 AM
--Jason "and though I really respect Scottdude's knowledge, there is no way Pierce is the top grad transfer on the market... Kerry Blackshear is miles ahead of him" Evans

That was a MAJOR oversight on my part! The "top grad-transfer" label was affixed to Pierce very early in the offseason, before Buzz's decision and Blackshear's departure. It's also possible that the label was coming more from local Michigan media, although I will note that ESPN had him at No. 5 in their "grad transfer rankings (http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/26530279/college-basketball-transfer-rankings-2019-20-2020-21)"... man, what a weird world to live in that that's even a thing!

Nugget
05-03-2019, 02:14 PM
I am surprised that a crackerjack Pratt grad would wander into the thickets of epistemological discussions rather than stick to items more easily quantified.. It is surely beneath you. High major, mid-major, the non-existent "low major." Rabbinical and Jesuit discussions. Thomas Aquinas, oxymorons, etc.

Kindly,
Sage

Here's my epistemological, data-free, yet undoubtedly accurate, breakdown of the levels of majority based on current conference memberships:

High Major (7): P5, Big East, AAC.

highish-Mid-Major (3): A10, WCC, Mountain West (will fall out if New Mexico, SDSU and/or UNLV don't get their act together soon)

mid-Mid-Major (9): CAA, CUSA, Ivy, MAC, MAAC, WAC, OVC, MVC, So. Con.

lowish-Mid-Major (6): Atlantic Sun, Big Sky, Big West, Horizon, Patriot, Sun Belt.

Low major (7): America East, Big South, MEAC, NEC, SWAC, Southland, Summit.

I don't care how this correlates with historical RPIs -- the Vitale Bald Dome Index tells me this is correct.

gofurman
05-03-2019, 08:16 PM
Here's my epistemological, data-free, yet undoubtedly accurate, breakdown of the levels of majority based on current conference memberships:

High Major (7): P5, Big East, AAC.

highish-Mid-Major (3): A10, WCC, Mountain West (will fall out if New Mexico, SDSU and/or UNLV don't get their act together soon)

mid-Mid-Major (9): CAA, CUSA, Ivy, MAC, MAAC, WAC, OVC, MVC, So. Con.

lowish-Mid-Major (6): Atlantic Sun, Big Sky, Big West, Horizon, Patriot, Sun Belt.

Low major (7): America East, Big South, MEAC, NEC, SWAC, Southland, Summit.

I don't care how this correlates with historical RPIs -- the Vitale Bald Dome Index tells me this is correct.

Agree on SoCon as a Furman fan. One bid league but an ‘ok’ mid major. Hey, Wofford beat UNC AT THE DEAN DOME ....! (And Furman beat Villanova this year). Or maybe beating UNC is so easy that doesn’t prove anything. Lol

gofurman
05-03-2019, 08:18 PM
In any case hope we see a new team listing soon. Hate that UNC
got Anthony but I Need to look at the others in rotation. Maybe I can hold out hope they finish fourth? Doubt it though

Devil549
05-05-2019, 10:48 AM
UNC will be good as they have a great coach (man hard to type but truth hurts sometimes). Also the ACC lost a lot of talent especially Duke, UVA and UNC so ACC wide open right now.

TT caught lightening in a bottle this year will other teams enjoy that type success? UNC & UVA better hope they can I guess the OAD is similar to taking grad transfers in today's game. Dean Smith turned transfers down but different times in college basketball today.

There is no magic formula to winning the National Championship never has been never will be. UCLA had a great run but different tournament back then, less teams and you could turn your head and not see what donors were doing. Of course now just offer no show classes to entire student body and hey you can gain an advantage.

olddevil
05-05-2019, 12:09 PM
In any case hope we see a new team listing soon. Hate that UNC
got Anthony but I Need to look at the others in rotation. Maybe I can hold out hope they finish fourth? Doubt it though

Be thankful that UNC will be good next year. The rivalry depends on both Duke and UNC being really good. It is good for both programs. Long live sport!

richardjackson199
05-05-2019, 12:21 PM
Be thankful that UNC will be good next year. The rivalry depends on both Duke and UNC being really good. It is good for both programs. Long live sport!

I preferred 2001-2002. 8-20. Long live D'oh! :cool:

olddevil
05-05-2019, 12:33 PM
I preferred 2001-2002. 8-20. Long live D'oh! :cool:

Good one.

devildeac
05-05-2019, 01:16 PM
I preferred 2001-2002. 8-20. Long live D'oh! :cool:

Indeed. My favorite cheaters coach ever.

Indoor66
05-05-2019, 01:45 PM
Indeed. My favorite cheaters coach ever.

Gee, how many do you remember? 😂🤢

devildeac
05-05-2019, 09:20 PM
Gee, how many do you remember? 😂🤢

Waaaay too many. :mad:

DarkstarWahoo
05-08-2019, 12:23 PM
UVA just added JUCO guard Tomas Woldentesae. Good luck with that one, Dickie V!

https://247sports.com/college/virginia/Article/Virginia-Cavaliers-Basketball-BREAKING-UVA-lands-JUCO-All-American-Tomas-Woldetensae-National-Champions--131870850/

budwom
05-08-2019, 12:55 PM
Here's my epistemological, data-free, yet undoubtedly accurate, breakdown of the levels of majority based on current conference memberships:

High Major (7): P5, Big East, AAC.

highish-Mid-Major (3): A10, WCC, Mountain West (will fall out if New Mexico, SDSU and/or UNLV don't get their act together soon)

mid-Mid-Major (9): CAA, CUSA, Ivy, MAC, MAAC, WAC, OVC, MVC, So. Con.

lowish-Mid-Major (6): Atlantic Sun, Big Sky, Big West, Horizon, Patriot, Sun Belt.

Low major (7): America East, Big South, MEAC, NEC, SWAC, Southland, Summit.

I don't care how this correlates with historical RPIs -- the Vitale Bald Dome Index tells me this is correct.

Not a bad list at all, but I'd strongly dispute America East as a low major. Clearly an acknowledged (by ESPN anyway) mid major...I think the 2018 Virginia team would agree.

jhmoss1812
05-08-2019, 01:07 PM
UVA just added JUCO guard Tomas Woldentesae. Good luck with that one, Dickie V!

https://247sports.com/college/virginia/Article/Virginia-Cavaliers-Basketball-BREAKING-UVA-lands-JUCO-All-American-Tomas-Woldetensae-National-Champions--131870850/

Well, considering you couldn't even spell his name right :)

devildeac
05-08-2019, 01:13 PM
UVA just added JUCO guard Tomas Woldentesae. Good luck with that one, Dickie V!

https://247sports.com/college/virginia/Article/Virginia-Cavaliers-Basketball-BREAKING-UVA-lands-JUCO-All-American-Tomas-Woldetensae-National-Champions--131870850/


Well, considering you couldn't even spell his name right :)

Oooh, in-fighting for Cavalier nation. ;):rolleyes:

DarkstarWahoo
05-08-2019, 04:22 PM
Well, considering you couldn't even spell his name right :)

We’re in enemy territory! I’m not going to make their scouting any easier!

Spanarkel
05-26-2019, 12:59 PM
Withdrawing from the NBA draft and returning to NCSU.

https://www.zagsblog.com/2019/05/24/markell-johnson-to-return-to-nc-state-for-senior-year/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=markell-johnson-to-return-to-nc-state-for-senior-year

jhmoss1812
05-28-2019, 04:22 PM
Sam Hauser just committed to UVA. Will have to sit one to play one (unless he somehow gets a waiver) but that's a good pickup for the Hoos!

Joey to MSU btw

gofurman
05-28-2019, 10:02 PM
Sam Hauser just committed to UVA. Will have to sit one to play one (unless he somehow gets a waiver) but that's a good pickup for the Hoos!

Joey to MSU btw

Will Joey have to sit at MSU? I hope so

jhmoss1812
05-29-2019, 07:01 AM
Will Joey have to sit at MSU? I hope so

Yes unless he receives a waiver. Both Hausers are expected to sit one year. Sam can play one, Joey can play two.

Spanarkel
05-29-2019, 09:47 AM
Yes unless he receives a waiver. Both Hausers are expected to sit one year. Sam can play one, Joey can play two.


There's a possibility that Joey could play three seasons at MSU as he redshirted in '17-'18.

https://www.freep.com/story/sports/college/michigan-state/spartans/2019/05/28/michigan-state-basketball-joey-hauser-marquette

scottdude8
05-29-2019, 12:14 PM
FWIW apparently Michigan is in on Seventh Woods (https://mgoblog.com/content/yaklich-out-washington), for some reason. Not at all sure what he'd bring to the table beyond filling a scholarship that otherwise wouldn't be filled for a couple years due to Beilein's departure and roster turnover.

Wahoo2000
05-30-2019, 01:57 AM
And as the very LAST player to declare his intentions regarding the draft, Mamadi Diakite announced around 11:15pm that he will return for his Sr year at UVA.

Looking like with Diakite and Huff returning we (Virginia) will shift to being very post oriented next season after having been very perimeter oriented in 18-19. Rebuilding or reloading? Still TBD I think, but Diakite returning sure does help.

DarkstarWahoo
05-30-2019, 09:52 AM
And as the very LAST player to declare his intentions regarding the draft, Mamadi Diakite announced around 11:15pm that he will return for his Sr year at UVA.

Looking like with Diakite and Huff returning we (Virginia) will shift to being very post oriented next season after having been very perimeter oriented in 18-19. Rebuilding or reloading? Still TBD I think, but Diakite returning sure does help.

That's a big surprise to me. The entire time, I got the vibe that he was looking for any reason to stay in the draft. I think he was getting questionable advice the entire time - he lost 20 pounds after the season ended! - but think that he made the choice that maximizes his NBA chances.

As my slightly older Wahoo friend says, while this is unequivocally a good thing, the full meaning is still up in the air. I still think UVA needs another guard (although I said the same thing last year and followed it with "This Clark kid can't possibly be ready for the ACC.") If nothing else, it's another familiar face to help us remember the magic times.

Truth&Justise
05-30-2019, 09:57 AM
And as the very LAST player to declare his intentions regarding the draft, Mamadi Diakite announced around 11:15pm that he will return for his Sr year at UVA.

Looking like with Diakite and Huff returning we (Virginia) will shift to being very post oriented next season after having been very perimeter oriented in 18-19. Rebuilding or reloading? Still TBD I think, but Diakite returning sure does help.

And UVA still has Braxton Key, right? I was very impressed with his array of offensive skills. Diakite, Huff, and Key all have a versatile offensive skillset that should work in any combo.

Defense is less clear to me--not sure how Huff and Key measure up, and none of the three can eat space (or set screens!) like Jack Salt could. But that's nitpicking--with those three, UVA has one of the best frontcourt rotations in the nation, as far as I'm concerned.

Truth&Justise
05-30-2019, 10:27 AM
As has been rumored for a while, NC State commit Jalen Lecque will remain in the NBA draft (https://www.backingthepack.com/2019/5/30/18645344/jalen-lecque-officially-forgoes-scholarship-to-stay-in-2019-nba-draft).

Lecque is already 19 and played a fifth year of high school--I'm a little confused as to how, but it involved multiple reclassifications and technically achieving all the credits needed for graduating a year ago.

NC State will still have Markell Johnson and Braxton Beverly in the back court and C.J. Bryce and Devon Daniels on the wing. That should put them solidly in the middle of the ACC, with a chance to contend if the front court develops.

Wahoo2000
05-30-2019, 10:57 AM
And UVA still has Braxton Key, right? I was very impressed with his array of offensive skills. Diakite, Huff, and Key all have a versatile offensive skillset that should work in any combo.

Defense is less clear to me--not sure how Huff and Key measure up, and none of the three can eat space (or set screens!) like Jack Salt could. But that's nitpicking--with those three, UVA has one of the best frontcourt rotations in the nation, as far as I'm concerned.

Key's defense is actually ahead of his offense, IMO. His 3pt shooting seemed serviceable but kind of streaky/hot&cold. His ballhandling leaves a good bit to be desired as well, considering he's supposed to be a combo forward. Through last year, I'm not really sure he's the guy you want putting the ball on the deck even to just drive to the rim, much less dribbling around in space outside the arc. Now, his skills in both of those departments were not so limited as to think a summer of hard work in those areas (3pt shot and ballhandling) couldn't get him to a more-than-serviceable level. That's what I'm hoping - that he's able to play a role of "Hunter-lite" this season. Playing the 3 spot and the stretch 4 as needed and excelling in both spots. I think he, Diakite, and Clark will all be our minutes leaders by a wide margin, much as Jerome/Guy/Hunter were last year.

Huff is interesting - his natural offensive instincts and his skills make him a no-brainer (IMO) to play as many minutes as he can handle. However, he still needs improvement on core strength and defensive footwork. Those things may limit him in Bennett's eyes. To me, his role is the biggest question mark of the season - will he be a starter and/or consistent major rotation player (18+mpg)? Or will he be used more situationally again and be more in the 8-10ish mpg range? I think our potential is a lot higher come March with Huff as a major force for us, but it could cost us in the regular season to crowbar him into games.

In the end, our season is probably decided by whether or we can get capable backcourt production from anyone besides Clark. There are 2-3 solid candidates (Casey Morsell, Tomas Woldetensae, Kody Stattman), but they're all totally unproven so far.

DarkstarWahoo
05-30-2019, 12:30 PM
Huff is interesting - his natural offensive instincts and his skills make him a no-brainer (IMO) to play as many minutes as he can handle. However, he still needs improvement on core strength and defensive footwork. Those things may limit him in Bennett's eyes. To me, his role is the biggest question mark of the season - will he be a starter and/or consistent major rotation player (18+mpg)? Or will he be used more situationally again and be more in the 8-10ish mpg range? I think our potential is a lot higher come March with Huff as a major force for us, but it could cost us in the regular season to crowbar him into games.


We've already UVA-jacked this enough, but I do want to point out that Huff had shoulder surgery right after the season last year and his offseason conditioning was severely curtailed. I'm excited to see what he can do with a full 20-something offseason with Mike Curtis.

Spanarkel
06-17-2019, 01:08 PM
Former Blue Devil and USC Trojan PG Derryck Thornton has announced his grad transfer to Boston College(eligible immediately).

CBS analyst Jon Rothstein projects Derryck to start along with Tabbs, Hamilton, Mitchell and Popovic.

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
06-17-2019, 02:17 PM
Former Blue Devil and USC Trojan PG Derryck Thornton has announced his grad transfer to Boston College(eligible immediately).

CBS analyst Jon Rothstein projects Derryck to start along with Tabbs, Hamilton, Mitchell and Popovic.

Best to him. Except, I mean, against us.