Should We Retire Zion's Jersey?

[DukeTrinity11]

Let the heated discussion begin!

He's likely to sweep all major NPOY awards plus he won the ACC Tournament MVP. On the other hand, Duke didn't make the Final Four or win a championship while Zion missed some games and didn't graduate. He's also the most talented player to ever put on a Duke jersey.

I could see the argument on both sides.

[75Crazie]

Why not? "College basketball" is an oxymoron, it means absolutely nothing today. Duke is a semi-pro farm program for the professional ranks, so any criteria it used to have for acknowledging its very best players has no meaning today. Adopt the uNC model, require no classroom activity, and recognize the players who pass through in one year. It seems to be the model that DBR participants favor, judging from current forum activity.

[moonpie23]

NO......the jersey in the rafter means something. Zion was a wonderful player for Duke this season, but no way does he get the jersey hung....

and tell those kids to get off my lawn....

[BeachBlueDevil]

Everyone who has had their number retired, has graduated. Zion hasn't. I doubt it happens with K at the helm. Maybe down the road but that is still murky.

[CameronBornAndBred]

No. And no again.
I'm not sure I'd even put him in the hall of honors. Maybe a poster somewhere. "Zion was here, he was really, really good"

[kako]

No. And no again.
I'm not sure I'd even put him in the hall of honors. Maybe a poster somewhere. "Zion was here, he was really, really good"

Agree. No, unless A) he graduates, and B) becomes the next Kareem/MJ/LeBron.

But the poster should instead be a statue of him skying for a block vs. UVA, and it should read "Zion was here, and he was gnikcuf awesome".

9F

[flyingdutchdevil]

Retire it. He's a legend.

[TruBlu]

The actual jersey that Zion wore must be retired. It would look baggy if someone else tried to wear it.

[Kdogg]

No.
The same agreement applies to Elton plus he was an NBA all star and current NBA GM. Neither meet the current Duke criteria.

[superdave]

Graduate and it's worth a thread.

[camion]

Honored, yes. Retired, no.

[DukeTrinity11]

Retire it. He's a legend.

I'm on this side as well. Not retiring the jersey of a consensus NPOY (our 1st since JJ Redick) is a bad look for Duke because it means we're placing greater importance on graduating than excellence on the basketball court. By all accounts, Zion was a class act off the court and beloved by his teammates and coaching staff.

Don't blame the kid because of the system he's forced into. His 1 season with us is better individually than any of our current retired players have had.

[rsvman]

It's not going to happen, at least not right away.

Had we at least cut down the nets for our region, and if he pursued further education after leaving, the conversation would at least be had.

[chrishoke]

I love, love, love Zion and greatly appreciate what he achieved this year and how he represented our great university, but no, for the reasons previously stated.

[HCheek37]

Only if he comes back and graduates. Then its a no brainer in my eyes. His impact on basketball will be felt for decades to come.

[PackMan97]

Neither meet the current Duke criteria.

What is the current criteria?

[proelitedota]

If a pro team retires his jersey in the future, we should too. Can you imagine not retiring Kobe and LeBron's jersey had they played for us?

[Devil in the Blue Dress]

I'm on this side as well. Not retiring the jersey of a consensus NPOY (our 1st since JJ Redick) is a bad look for Duke because it means we're placing greater importance on graduating than excellence on the basketball court. By all accounts, Zion was a class act off the court and beloved by his teammates and coaching staff.

Don't blame the kid because of the system he's forced into. His 1 season with us is better individually than any of our current retired players have had.

I'm reading the words in bold and thinking that the meaning of student athlete must be lost. Isn't the long term goal to graduate?

[Skitzle]

Retire his broken shoe

[flyingdutchdevil]

I'm reading the words in bold and thinking that the meaning of student athlete must be lost. Isn't the long term goal to graduate?

Not for at least 50% of our basketball recruits since 2014...

[aimo]

Retire his broken shoe

I heard on the news last night that it's missing.

[Devil in the Blue Dress]

Not for at least 50% of our basketball recruits since 2014...

Tone is difficult to convey on the internet... my comments were tongue in cheek.:cool:

[CameronBornAndBred]

Not retiring the jersey of a consensus NPOY (our 1st since JJ Redick) is a bad look for Duke because it means we're placing greater importance on graduating than excellence on the basketball court.

The horror...

[79-77]

FWIW, a google search reveals the following from the 2014-15 basketball media guide:


Though there is no ‘official’ criteria to have a jersey retired at Duke, a player must achieve at a national level — earn National Player of the Year or National Defensive Player of the Year honors, set an NCAA record, win a gold medal representing his country in the Olympics or earn All-America recognition. What distinguishes Duke’s retired jersey players from many other schools is the main criteria. No jersey will be retired at Duke unless the player has earned his degree.

http://www.goduke.com/fls/4200/media-guides/mbb/2014-15/Tradition%20106-120.pdf?DB_OEM_ID=4200

IIRC, the key criterion used to be making first-team all-America.

In any case, if Zion eventually graduates, I'd vote in favor of retiring his jersey.

[Kdogg]

What is the current criteria?

Graduation. It’s the only reason Elton Brand is not retired. Heck K didn’t hang one Final Four banner for like 15 years because players didn’t graduate. I don’t know for sure but I think it’s up now.

https://www.nytimes.com/1992/06/12/sports/sports-people-basketball-laettner-will-graduate-so-banner-stays.html

[heyman25]

Retire #1. We will never see someone like Zion again. I don't think graduation should be a requirement.

[CajunDevil]

Retire #1. We will never see someone like Zion again. I don't think graduation should be a requirement.

Totally agree. Retire #1. Zion is the best player to ever play at Duke.

[uh_no]

if Lebron went to, say, the Knicks next year, for one year, and he won the mvp and made a playoff appearance without winning a title, should the Knicks retire his number?

what about two years? five?

there is a requisite time frame before ones contributions become significant enough. i don't know the exact answer for the pros, but one year isn't enough in college. maybe two. definitely three.

[DukeTrinity11]

if Lebron went to, say, the Knicks next year, for one year, and he won the mvp and made a playoff appearance without winning a title, should the Knicks retire his number?

what about two years? five?

there is a requisite time frame before ones contributions become significant enough. i don't know the exact answer for the pros, but one year isn't enough in college. maybe two. definitely three.
Yes, I think the Knicks should retire Lebron if he wins MVP while wearing a Knicks uniform, even if he simply stays there for just a year. Most NBA franchise can't even claim 1 MVP winner.

This is not inconsistent with what we're saying about Zion. He simply didn't just win ACC POY, 1st Team All-American honors, ACCT MVP...he"ll likely be the unanimous National Player of the Year.

This is a different debate than asking to retire Okafor, Bagley, Scheyer, Singler or Smith's jersey; none of them were the AP or Naismith National Player of the Year.

Winning NPOY is more impressive than simply being the best player on a title team; it's the ultimate honor.

[CameronBornAndBred]

if Lebron went to, say, the Knicks next year, for one year, and he won the mvp and made a playoff appearance without winning a title, should the Knicks retire his number?

what about two years? five?

there is a requisite time frame before ones contributions become significant enough. i don't know the exact answer for the pros, but one year isn't enough in college. maybe two. definitely three.

The thing is, Zion won't be playing for another school. Big difference. (Still shouldn't be retired at Duke, but that's not why.)

[Kfanarmy]

I'm on this side as well. Not retiring the jersey of a consensus NPOY (our 1st since JJ Redick) is a bad look for Duke because it means we're placing greater importance on graduating than excellence on the basketball court. By all accounts, Zion was a class act off the court and beloved by his teammates and coaching staff.

Don't blame the kid because of the system he's forced into. His 1 season with us is better individually than any of our current retired players have had.

If this ever becomes true I'm out as a fan of Duke BBall. That is the Carolina Way and I don't want to be in any way supportive of completely subverting the purpose of a University for simple entertainment. Unless a trade school for the arts or entertainment industry, graduating should have greater importance than excellence on the court.

[Kdogg]

Yes, I think the Knicks should retire Lebron if he wins MVP while wearing a Knicks uniform, even if he simply stays there for just a year. Most NBA franchise can't even claim 1 MVP winner.

This is not inconsistent with what we're saying about Zion. He simply didn't just win ACC POY, 1st Team All-American honors, ACCT MVP...he"ll likely be the unanimous National Player of the Year.

This is a different debate than asking to retire Okafor, Bagley, Scheyer, Singler or Smith's jersey; none of them were the AP or Naismith National Player of the Year.

Winning NPOY is more impressive than simply being the best player on a title team; it's the ultimate honor.

But again so did Elton and he went to a Final Four, an Elite Eight and won both the ACC regular season and tournament. For Zion to have a chance, Elton’s jersey retirement would have to happen first.

[DukeTrinity11]

If this ever becomes true I'm out as a fan of Duke BBall. That is the Carolina Way and I don't want to be in any way supportive of completely subverting the purpose of a University for simple entertainment. Unless a trade school for the arts or entertainment industry, graduating should have greater importance than excellence on the court.
If you view basketball as "simple entertainment", then you don't have to watch the sport. You can read articles in the Chronicle or the Alumni Magazine to celebrate what thousands of former Duke alumni are accomplishing in various professions.

Harvard still counts Zuckerberg, Bill Gates and Matt Damon as alumni if I'm not mistaken. Schools take credit for researchers who win the Nobel Prize/Fields Medal even if there's a very loose affiliation with the university (was just a postdoc for a semester).

I view the graduation rule much like I view The Second Amendment, as sort of an anachronistic oddity that doesn't really make sense in today's day and age.

[DukeTrinity11]

But again so did Elton and he went to a Final Four, an Elite Eight and won both the ACC regular season and tournament. For Zion to have a chance, Elton’s jersey retirement would have to happen first.
We need to retire his jersey as well, long overdue I say.

[ncexnyc]

NO, NO, and NO again.

[InSpades]

I think we can all agree that Zion should have his number retired... if he comes back for his sophomore season.

[Ian]

I say no emphatically, no OAD should have their number retired, they get their reward in the form of $, and they deserve all the $ they can make. But choices matter, and choosing one means you forgo something else. Can't have everything in life.

[TruBlu]

I think we can all agree that Zion should have his number retired... if he comes back for his sophomore season.

Or he could eliminate any questions about it by coming back for 2 more years, and working out a 3 year graduation plan. You reading this, Zion?!?

[soflabluedevil]

Retire #1. We will never see someone like Zion again. I don't think graduation should be a requirement.

Times change. in the now OAD era I agree his jersey should be retired. He was #1 player in game, played harder than anyone else, loved the game so much, loved his teammates to come back when POS like Pippen were telling him to quit, but he came back to compete as a true sportsman would. He always showed great class and intelligence. My favorite Duke player ever.

[uh_no]

Yes, I think the Knicks should retire Lebron if he wins MVP while wearing a Knicks uniform, even if he simply stays there for just a year. Most NBA franchise can't even claim 1 MVP winner.


1 year and an MVP seems like a low bar....should the mets retire R.A. Dickey's number? He won a cy young in his couple years with them.

Number retirement is about a number that is so treasured by a franchise that nobody else should wear it ever. I don't see how one year on a team could ever have that level on a franchise.

[flyingdutchdevil]

1 year and an MVP seems like a low bar...should the mets retire R.A. Dickey's number? He won a cy young in his couple years with them.

Number retirement is about a number that is so treasured by a franchise that nobody else should wear it ever. I don't see how one year on a team could ever have that level on a franchise.

Zion is a treasured ballerina. I agree with folks saying we will never see anyone like him again in a Duke uniform. Is he the greatest Dukie to ever where a uniform? Nope.

But is the most unique and will he clean up awards? Yup.

[arnie]

Totally agree. Retire #1. Zion is the best player to ever play at Duke.

Completely disagree. He played less than a full season and his team didn’t go to a Final 4. Kyrie may be the 2nd best player to ever play at Duke; are we gonna retire his jersey too?

[uh_no]

Completely disagree. He played less than a full season and his team didn’t go to a Final 4. Kyrie may be the 2nd best player to ever play at Duke; are we gonna retire his jersey too?

2 for "1" special!

[A-Tex Devil]

But again so did Elton and he went to a Final Four, an Elite Eight and won both the ACC regular season and tournament. For Zion to have a chance, Elton’s jersey retirement would have to happen first.

Agree with this.

[bludevil_33]

If we had won the NC, I would have said yes. Without it, I think it's a no.

[wsb3]

We have players who have had great 3-4 year careers and have not had their jersey retired. No for any one year player. And get off my lawn!!

[ChillinDuke]

1 year and an MVP seems like a low bar...should the mets retire R.A. Dickey's number? He won a cy young in his couple years with them.

Number retirement is about a number that is so treasured by a franchise that nobody else should wear it ever. I don't see how one year on a team could ever have that level on a franchise.

I get that. And I probably even agree with you, gun to my head.

But it seems somewhat disingenuous to compare the "best" player (pitcher) from one year of what is likely a long career in a league to the best (basketball) player from one year in a league with context that the best only play a single year in that league.

Again, I probably agree with you. But times are different. If the most amazing players at Duke are highly unlikely to ever graduate ever again, does it really make sense to hold on to a standard that is essentially irrelevant?

I could analogize you here just like you did about old rules and laws that become outdated, but you get my point.

I think it's worth discussing. It may get shot down today. But that doesn't mean that the time is not coming.

- Chillin

[Bay Area Duke Fan]

Yes, I think the Knicks should retire Lebron if he wins MVP while wearing a Knicks uniform, even if he simply stays there for just a year. Most NBA franchise can't even claim 1 MVP winner.

This is not inconsistent with what we're saying about Zion. He simply didn't just win ACC POY, 1st Team All-American honors, ACCT MVP...he"ll likely be the unanimous National Player of the Year.

This is a different debate than asking to retire Okafor, Bagley, Scheyer, Singler or Smith's jersey; none of them were the AP or Naismith National Player of the Year.

Winning NPOY is more impressive than simply being the best player on a title team; it's the ultimate honor.

Basketball is a team game. The goal for every Duke player should be to lead the team to a national championship. The ultimate honor is achieving that goal.

Zion was a great player in his one season at Duke. But he was unable to lead his team to even having a chance to play for the NCAA championship.

[SoCalDukeFan]

that retired jerseys are for Duke graduates who were also great players.

If he wants to see his jersey in the rafters, he can just stay 3 more years.

SoCal

[Ian]

Again, I probably agree with you. But times are different. If the most amazing players at Duke are highly unlikely to ever graduate ever again, does it really make sense to hold on to a standard that is essentially irrelevant?


- Chillin

Yes?

If the standard is irrelevant than the whole concept of retired jerseys is also an outdated irrelevant honor that no longer needs to be handed out. I mean, how many of these players come to Duke with jersey retirement being one of their goals anyway. I'd say none. So why bend over backwards to give it to someone who clearly cares little for it, and cheapen yourself in the process. I'd rather if Duke never retires another number, then turn the whole thing into a joke.

[NSDukeFan]

What is the current criteria?

I believe the official criteria is “coach K feels your number should be retired.” It helps a lot if you graduated as this is a university.

[uh_no]

I get that. And I probably even agree with you, gun to my head.

But it seems somewhat disingenuous to compare the "best" player (pitcher) from one year of what is likely a long career in a league to the best (basketball) player from one year in a league with context that the best only play a single year in that league.

Again, I probably agree with you. But times are different. If the most amazing players at Duke are highly unlikely to ever graduate ever again, does it really make sense to hold on to a standard that is essentially irrelevant?

I could analogize you here just like you did about old rules and laws that become outdated, but you get my point.

I think it's worth discussing. It may get shot down today. But that doesn't mean that the time is not coming.

- Chillin

yeah that is definitely the distinction (though . So now how about this....what if lebron in his prime decided to go on a team-tour and played for a different team every year and won MVP, should they each retire his number? Does it make sense for a single player to have his number retired at so many different teams that it kind of becomes cheap?

I don't mean to force people to pick out flaws in the question, but merely am looking for what people might establish as bounds, as one might do with many gedankenexperimente.

[HaveFunExpectToWin]

No retirement. Zion and RJ were great, but neither are leaving a significant legacy, which to me is made up partly of individual honors but also team and career accomplishments.

[dukebluesincebirth]

National Championship, I’ll think about it. No final four, no can do.

[Dukehky]

There are criteria that we cherish. One of those criteria which has been a mainstay is that the player has to graduate.

I love Zion. He shouldn't have his jersey retired. I don't think we'll ever see it again.

[Kdogg]

I think more than likely he will eventually be named to the Duke Athletics Hall of Fame assuming he doesn’t graduate.

[msdukie]

The Hall of Honor was created with specific criteria including a way for players who don't graduate to be honored, including National Players of the Year. Zion and RJ have met the criteria and will be added. Any discussion about retiring a number without graduation should be a non-starter.

As for the question over hanging jerseys if the players don't graduate. The criteria has always been that K won't hang a banner until all the seniors graduate (see: 1990 - the Final Four banner was hung in 1999 after all the seniors graduated). That requirement has not changed.

[Devil in the Blue Dress]

that retired jerseys are for Duke graduates who were also great players.

If he wants to see his jersey in the rafters, he can just stay 3 more years.

SoCal

Or do what Steph Curry has done to graduate from Davidson. He took courses whenever he could and eventually graduated.

[duketaylor]

What is the current criteria?

Per something I've read here over the years:
And this was from Coach K (IIRC), per his thoughts:

1) Graduate
2) Win NPOY or NDPOY
and/or
3) Be on NCAA Championship team

If Elton were to graduate (has he? haven't heard so) he'd qualify IMO. I think Grayson is borderline. If Zion returned to graduate then I'd be fine with it.

I think Zion could win both NPOY and NDPOY but won't win the latter. His defense, IMO, was that good/disruptive.

[WHOneedsSOX]

Nice to see him take his anger out on this rim.

https://twitter.com/SLAMonline/status/1113243187655712768


Per something I've read here over the years:
And this was from Coach K (IIRC), per his thoughts:

1) Graduate
2) Win NPOY or NDPOY
and/or
3) Be on NCAA Championship team

If Elton were to graduate (has he? haven't heard so) he'd qualify IMO. I think Grayson is borderline. If Zion returned to graduate then I'd be fine with it.

I think Zion could win both NPOY and NDPOY but won't win the latter. His defense, IMO, was that good/disruptive.
I don't think there's any way he wins NDPOY. He didn't even with ACC DPOY. He gambles way too much. His highlight reel steals and blocks won't win it for him.

[gep]

I'm on this side as well. Not retiring the jersey of a consensus NPOY (our 1st since JJ Redick) is a bad look for Duke because it means we're placing greater importance on graduating than excellence on the basketball court. By all accounts, Zion was a class act off the court and beloved by his teammates and coaching staff.

Don't blame the kid because of the system he's forced into. His 1 season with us is better individually than any of our current retired players have had.

Sorry... for me, no jersey retirement for Zion. I agree he's one of the BEST players in Duke basketball history. BUT... I really hope Duke does not put excellence on the basketball court AHEAD of graduating... which is one way of saying *education* is first. And I really don't know how this would be viewed as a "bad look". What happened??? Where are we going with this???

[BigZ]

How about we start with Kyle Singler? Dude is top 5 in many categories, played all four years and Final Four MOP

[Bay Area Duke Fan]

Or do what Steph Curry has done to graduate from Davidson. He took courses whenever he could and eventually graduated.

It was a lot easier for Steph to graduate after leaving early for the NBA. He played three years at Davidson.

[johnb]

Who cares?

Someone already posted Zion playing pick up this week: https://www.si.com/college-basketball/2019/04/02/duke-zion-williamson-nearly-breaks-rim-with-insane-dunk

Elton should come before Zion (Elton can add NBA GM, which should provide AP Credit), but as someone else said, stay off my lawn. Just don’t go critizing Zion, who’s arguably going to develop into the most influential Duke alum, period.

[CameronBornAndBred]

Until Greg Koubek gets in the rafters, this thread is moot.

[slower]

Zion was a great player in his one season at Duke. But he was unable to lead his team to even having a chance to play for the NCAA championship.

Your first sentence is correct. Your second is a crock. Zion gave it everything he had, every second. And he delivered, in a spectacular way. Don't let the shortcomings of other players reflect negatively on him.

[uh_no]

Your first sentence is correct. Your second is a crock. Zion gave it everything he had, every second. And he delivered, in a spectacular way. Don't let the shortcomings of other players reflect negatively on him.

He literally was not able to lead his team to the final four. I'm not sure how that statement is questionable. That doesn't mean he didn't lead...and it doesn't mean he wasn't "spectacular."

[Wander]

Unless a trade school for the arts or entertainment industry, graduating should have greater importance than excellence on the court.



BUT... I really hope Duke does not put excellence on the basketball court AHEAD of graduating... which is one way of saying *education* is first.

Not necessarily saying I'm on the side of retiring Zion's jersey, but, doesn't the very fact that Duke recruits OADs at all already reveal that we're not placing greater importance on graduating? I say that without any moral judgement, but it seems to me like we're already there.

[Reddevil]

Those that leave before graduating have made the choice to be honored in a different way.

[DukeTrinity11]

Sorry... for me, no jersey retirement for Zion. I agree he's one of the BEST players in Duke basketball history. BUT... I really hope Duke does not put excellence on the basketball court AHEAD of graduating... which is one way of saying *education* is first. And I really don't know how this would be viewed as a "bad look". What happened??? Where are we going with this???
Its not Zion's fault that he isn't graduating though because he's already eligible to enter the biggest stage of his chosen field of study: basketball. ;)

I've always been uncomfortable with the term "student athlete" as it pertains to college basketball or football players because they're typically taking the least rigorous classes the university has to offer and aren't really going through the same academic meat grinder that your typical undergrad is.

Most Duke undergrads these days got a 1500+ on their SATs, 3.0+ GPAs and take 6-8 AP classes on top of that. How many members of our basketball team would get into Duke without the athletic scholarship on their own academic merit?

I'm personally okay with the idea of treating major athletic programs as minor league farm teams and allowing the students to still cheer them on due to their affiliation with the university.

[DukeTrinity11]

Those that leave before graduating have made the choice to be honored in a different way.

The NBA has made the choice for them already my friend. Do you think he's going to pass up millions of dollars to come back to the school?

If Harvard Law School, Hopkins Med or Goldman Sachs was an option for the brightest college freshmen in the country right after their 1st year of school because the school or company viewed them to be ready to start, the vast majority of them would forego their remaining 3 years of school and pursue their intended passion immediately.

Lets not age discriminate against the prodigies that exist in this world who are ready to pursue their dreams at an earlier age than others.

[Reddevil]

The NBA has made the choice for them already my friend. Do you think he's going to pass up millions of dollars to come back to the school?

If Harvard Law School, Hopkins Med or Goldman Sachs was an option for the brightest college freshmen in the country right after their 1st year of school because the school or company viewed them to be ready to start, the vast majority of them would forego their remaining 3 years of school and pursue their intended passion immediately.

Lets not age discriminate against the prodigies that exist in this world who are ready to pursue their dreams at an earlier age than others.

I am not discriminating or judging. I am simply saying that a choice has been made. Does not matter by whom, although as adults we are all responsible for our choices regardless of how we are influenced. Going pro is the obvious choice for some, but doing so means leaving things behind. There is no right or wrong here. There is no good or bad. Just choices. There are always consequences to our choices. Lowering standards is a choice too. Maybe that will happen. I have no vote in the matter, but changing targets is not something I have ever favored.

[DCDevil9194]

The NBA has made the choice for them already my friend. Do you think he's going to pass up millions of dollars to come back to the school?

If Harvard Law School, Hopkins Med or Goldman Sachs was an option for the brightest college freshmen in the country right after their 1st year of school because the school or company viewed them to be ready to start, the vast majority of them would forego their remaining 3 years of school and pursue their intended passion immediately.

Lets not age discriminate against the prodigies that exist in this world who are ready to pursue their dreams at an earlier age than others.

Don't think this is right. How do you explain the many people who choose to take a year or more after graduating college before attending graduate school? In fact, the average age of a first year at Harvard and Yale law is 24.

[ChillinDuke]

yeah that is definitely the distinction (though . So now how about this...what if lebron in his prime decided to go on a team-tour and played for a different team every year and won MVP, should they each retire his number? Does it make sense for a single player to have his number retired at so many different teams that it kind of becomes cheap?

I don't mean to force people to pick out flaws in the question, but merely am looking for what people might establish as bounds, as one might do with many gedankenexperimente.

Yeah, it's a fair point. But that's still hypothesizing a long career in a league. What if the best players have a 1-year career in a league?

I don't think you can string up Zion's jersey. But I disagree with those that think it's a clear-cut no. There's nuance here, perhaps for the first time ever that I'll even wade into this territory. Zion was, rather unquestionably, the most incredible player to ever play at Duke let alone freshman. Other players had more storied careers and team accomplishments. But Zion, in on-court performance, stats, stature, and pop culture, transcended all before him. IMO.

- Chillin

[szstark]

Until Greg Koubek gets in the rafters, this thread is moot.

I totally agree. BTW, where is the love for Kyrie? He only played 11 games, but they were probably the 11 greatest performances of all time; he is having a spectacular NBA career; and he is running for high office in the Flat Earth Society. I say Kyrie before Zion, but both after Koubek.

[budwom]

in line with current educational practices, everyone should have his or her jersey retired, or at least get a nice certificate or a shrubbery or something.

[SamHouston]

I have read three pages of this thread and did not see the name Spanarkel. That may be something to revisit.

[sagegrouse]

He literally was not able to lead his team to the final four. I'm not sure how that statement is questionable. That doesn't mean he didn't lead...and it doesn't mean he wasn't "spectacular."

He literally, "did not lead the Duke team to the Final Four," which is different from "was not able to lead his team to the Final Four."

[Neals384]

I'm on this side as well. Not retiring the jersey of a consensus NPOY (our 1st since JJ Redick) is a bad look for Duke because it means we're placing greater importance on graduating than excellence on the basketball court. By all accounts, Zion was a class act off the court and beloved by his teammates and coaching staff.

Don't blame the kid because of the system he's forced into. His 1 season with us is better individually than any of our current retired players have had.

You forgot the smiley joke emoji.

[Phredd3]

Zion may be the best player to ever put on a Duke uniform. (I'm not sure about that mostly because I'm not sure if recency bias blinds me to greatness from other eras, e.g. Dick Groat.) But he is not the player who has meant the most to Duke basketball. Not even close.

He caused a sensation and focused national attention on Duke for one season, that's true. But Zion will almost certainly be remembered as a great professional basketball player, not as a Duke basketball player, much the way Kyrie already is. Yes, most people are dimly aware that Kyrie once played for Duke (and that it was vaguely disappointing). But what they really remember are his times as a pro. That's going to be true of Zion in a few years, too, right down to the vague disappointment part.

Johnny Dawkins is remembered as a Duke basketball player first and foremost. Same with Laettner, Gminski, and both Jay and Shelden Williams. I would argue that even Battier, Reddick, Ferry, and Hill are remembered as much or more for their Duke careers as for their pro careers. In addition to graduating and holding a Duke degree, longevity AT DUKE is an important component of that equation.

There's no way I would retire Zion's jersey right now. If he came back to get a Duke degree, then maybe it is a conversation worth starting. Even then, only maybe.

[weezie]

https://twitter.com/complexsports/status/1113249972244369409?s=12

[Neals384]

I think we can all agree that Zion should have his number retired... if he comes back for his sophomore season.

I actually think the NCAA should immediately implement the "Zion" rule. Upperclassmen allowed to sign shoe contracts. Let's face it, the NBA is on the verge of eliminating 1 and done. NCAA can fight back by taking a step to encourage players to attend college and stay more than one year. ESPN, ACC Network ratings next year will suck with no Zion!

Only partially kidding.

[devildeac]

https://twitter.com/complexsports/status/1113249972244369409?s=12

Nobody grabbed his jersey on that play. :mad:

[NSDukeFan]

Nobody grabbed his jersey on that play. :mad:

He did seem to jump higher there than in the Michigan State game. First time Zion couldn’t jump over his opponents for lobs?

[BLPOG]

I've been reading DBR off and on since the late 1990s.

This thread is the stupidest one I have seen in that time.

9301

[Utley]

There’s some hope yet. I read he’s staying at Duke for summer classes towards his degree. Perhaps he means to get his degree after all. How special would that be.

[-jk]

There’s some hope yet. I read he’s staying at Duke for summer classes towards his degree. Perhaps he means to get his degree after all. How special would that be.

Heck, I saw on PTI he's back next year.

Doesn't want to play for the Knicks or something...

-jk

[KenTankerous]

Agree. No, unless A) he graduates, and B) becomes the next Kareem/MJ/LeBron.

But the poster should instead be a statue of him skying for a block vs. UVA, and it should read "Zion was here, and he was gnikcuf awesome".

9F

Graduation first. And he must come back and coach a team to a natty, or some such greatness. But graduation is key. Other than that, his personal accolades are a one and done phenom thing. Do we really hang that in the rafters at Cameron?. Roy's got room, let's put it over there as an ACC thang.