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View Full Version : MBB: Michigan St 68, Duke 67 Post-Game Thread (Elite 8)



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JBDuke
03-31-2019, 06:09 PM
Put your post-game thoughts here. Remember, no venting or bashing.

WHOneedsSOX
03-31-2019, 06:09 PM
Ugly game for Duke. Should've been a solid win.

uh_no
03-31-2019, 06:10 PM
Ugly game for Duke. Should've been a solid win.

too many turnovers. game.

Best of luck guys. it was a fun year.

J4Kop99
03-31-2019, 06:10 PM
Turnovers all night... and then a missed free throw. Absolutely brutal way to go down.

Wander
03-31-2019, 06:10 PM
The sport of college basketball isn't worthy of Zion.

I'm just going to assume Duke knew that, and that's why we didn't let Zion take any of the last three shots. Only sensible explanation.

duke96
03-31-2019, 06:10 PM
Ugly game for Duke. Should've been a solid win.

Yeah we actually matched up with them pretty well I thought. Turnovers and inconsistent play generally didnít help us. That last 3 was a killer.

CoachJ10
03-31-2019, 06:11 PM
We had this game won. Da@n.

flyingdutchdevil
03-31-2019, 06:11 PM
Veteran team. Extremely well coached. Winston is just an absolute player.

Reminds me of 2010 Duke.

WHOneedsSOX
03-31-2019, 06:11 PM
It was fun watching Zion all year. Really thought he'd carry them all the way.

J4Kop99
03-31-2019, 06:12 PM
We need to be careful to not give RJ too hard of a time... but duke HAS to get the ball to Zion at some point during those last 3 possessions. Inexcusable.

Potato
03-31-2019, 06:12 PM
Tatum, Zion, Bagley
0 Final 4ís

godins
03-31-2019, 06:12 PM
I've cherished every minute these guys have given with the Duke jersey on their backs.

Ultimately, I think there was an element of complacency that didn't jibe with their "killers kill" slogan. If killers really killed, we would have put Michigan State away today in the first half instead of letting them go on a 13-0 run to end the half. I couldn't tell you the last time this Duke team put a game away before halftime. With a margin of error that small, days like today happen.

Dub
03-31-2019, 06:12 PM
Iím more sad than usual for this team. Our top 3 (maybe 4) will go on to be pros and weíll start all over from scratch next season. Feel bad for Zion and crew but such is life. Look forward to next years group. Lets go Duke!

pamtelp
03-31-2019, 06:12 PM
Ugly game for Duke. Should've been a solid win.

Have to say that offense we ran for this game and the second half of last game - pass to Barrett on the wing and screen for him - was not very fun to watch. No ball movement. We played an NBA offense. Wish we could have mixed it up.

WakeDevil
03-31-2019, 06:12 PM
The most disappointing season of my lifetime.

This is not the Matrix. You cannot dodge that many bullets.

Two players should not be going to the NBA. We all know who the are.

kako
03-31-2019, 06:13 PM
5 thoughts:

1. Hard to really talk about the game right now.

2. Proud of DeLaurier stepping up.

3. Duke had two Achilles' heels. 3 point shooting was ok this game, good enough. FT shooting was not.

4. Hard to say goodbye to Zion and RJ. I wish them well.

5. Izzo really coached his team well. Congrats to Sparty.

9F

chrishoke
03-31-2019, 06:13 PM
Ahhhhhhh see ya!

dukefanSD
03-31-2019, 06:13 PM
It was a really tough end to one of the most memorable years. I wish nothing but the best for our guys. I hate losing to Michigan State because so many pundits had them winning and I love proving them wrong.

House G
03-31-2019, 06:13 PM
Iím curious why we didnít use our fouls when we had the 4 point lead.

Dukehk
03-31-2019, 06:13 PM
The three at the end killed us. We were slow on the switch and I'm surprised the defense lost it.

Can't blame RJ for the missed free throws. We made some freshmen errors right at the end.

Proud of this team, and it felt like we should have got the win. They were allowed to absolutely assault Zion and RJ all game long.

Also, I thought we ran the same play over and over and over again too many times. Why not get some of the other guys involved in the offense? Cam didn't even see the ball for 3-4 minutes..

Sometimes, its necessary to run a play or two for a different look rather than Iso Zion and RJ on that left wing.

Potato
03-31-2019, 06:13 PM
I've cherished every minute these guys have given with the Duke jersey on their backs.

Ultimately, I think there was an element of complacency that didn't jibe with their "killers kill" slogan. If killers really killed, we would have put Michigan State away today in the first half instead of letting them go on a 13-0 run to end the half. I couldn't tell you the last time this Duke team put a game away before halftime. With a margin of error that small, days like today happen.

This.

J4Kop99
03-31-2019, 06:13 PM
Veteran team. Extremely well coached. Winston is just an absolute player.

Reminds me of 2010 Duke.

And at the same time, we have 20 turnovers and only lose by 1 point. With a ft to tie it that we missed.

GGLC
03-31-2019, 06:13 PM
Who cares.

Wildling
03-31-2019, 06:13 PM
Eventually poor free throw shooting would bite us. It bit us.....

WiJoe
03-31-2019, 06:13 PM
The most disappointing season of my lifetime.




yup. absolutely

gocanes0506
03-31-2019, 06:14 PM
Freshmen basketball all tournament and finally met a team not missing the big shot.

Disappointing end for a too talented squad

uh_no
03-31-2019, 06:14 PM
The three at the end killed us. We were slow on the switch and I'm surprised the defense lost it.

Can't blame RJ for the missed free throws. We made some freshmen errors right at the end.

Proud of this team, and it felt like we should have got the win. They were allowed to absolutely assault Zion and RJ all game long.

Also, I thought we ran the same play over and over and over again too many times. Why not get some of the other guys involved in the offense? Cam didn't even see the ball for 3-4 minutes..

Sometimes, its necessary to run a play or two for a different look rather than Iso Zion and RJ on that left wing.

0-4 on the lob for zion. 4 TOs.

ChicagoCrazy84
03-31-2019, 06:14 PM
Sucks. How did we know itíd come down to a FT. No offense to RJ but I didnít think for a second heíd step up and drain both. Just a part of the game and a part heíll get better at as he gets older.

Onlyduke
03-31-2019, 06:15 PM
Is there a link to the presser?

WHOneedsSOX
03-31-2019, 06:15 PM
What a play call by Izzo to call for that 3 for that guy. He made 1 all game? And then that one.

sweetchiba51
03-31-2019, 06:15 PM
We've done it before with one and done, but it just doesn't lead to championships. Every year we start completely over. Generational talent on this team and couldn't win a championship. Teams that have older, more mature, developed players win championships.

karmacoma
03-31-2019, 06:15 PM
Tatum, Zion, Bagley
0 Final 4ís

Exactly. Either our recruiting strategy or our player development isn't working.

simplyluvin
03-31-2019, 06:15 PM
Too close. Poor rebounding and too many turnovers. Sad ending to a memorable season and a special team.

heyman25
03-31-2019, 06:16 PM
Have to say that offense we ran for this game and the second half of last game - pass to Barrett on the wing and screen for him - was not very fun to watch. No ball movement. We played an NBA offense. Wish we could have mixed it up.

Never had a good feeling about this game.Turnovers and poor decisions were too much to overcome. Zion should have had the last attempt not RJ. Entertaining year, but no final 4 Feel bad for whole team and especially Tre Jones.

gotoguy
03-31-2019, 06:16 PM
Congrats to MSU. They had a clean look on the go ahead three. Turnovers obviously hurt. But despite my disappointment.it was an awesome ride this year. I have never been more entertained.by a Duke team. MSU played physical and we did not capitalize on our numerous FT opportunities. That and the TOs was the story

GGLC
03-31-2019, 06:16 PM
Zion gets fouled every time, who cares. Everybody wants to see Duke lose, who cares. Who cares.

kaufmjo
03-31-2019, 06:17 PM
Donít know whatís worse the playing at the end or the Uber driver that almost crashed taking me back from JFK. Our luck ran out tonight and teams that win championships make stops and hit FTs when it counts. These guys didnít

J4Kop99
03-31-2019, 06:17 PM
The coaching staff may catch a little heat for the foul situation late in the game. Wish we would've played much more aggressively after going up 4.

bludevil_33
03-31-2019, 06:17 PM
Can't blame RJ for the missed free throws.


Who else would you blame for missing the free throws that RJ alone shot? :confused:

Lippl
03-31-2019, 06:17 PM
Gotta give credit to Izzo for calling a great game. They killed us on the out of timeout plays, and kept us in check on defense. We made 1 too many mistakes. Ah well. I liked this team a lot.

sbroc012
03-31-2019, 06:18 PM
I love watching these talented players. but please can we mix it up with some core year to year guys. I would love to be able to sya that we will be strong again next year but we cant because there's no telling with the new crop of players.

Dukehk
03-31-2019, 06:18 PM
0-4 on the lob for zion. 4 TOs.

He got assaulted on those lobs. They were pushing him and shoving him midair.

But we can't complain. We had our chances to win it.

This team should have been in the final four. Guys just didn't step up (Tre/Cam). In the end the ball only touched RJ's and Zion's hands. Nobody else wanted it.

J4Kop99
03-31-2019, 06:18 PM
Back-to-back heartbreaking elite 8 losses

mattman91
03-31-2019, 06:19 PM
I love watching these talented players. but please can we mix it up with some core year to year guys. I would love to be able to sya that we will be strong again next year but we cant because there's no telling with the new crop of players.

Well that was quick.

Potato
03-31-2019, 06:19 PM
Exactly. Either our recruiting strategy or our player development isn't working.

Itís hard to judge player development off the tournament because itís so random and such a crap shoot, but itís so frustrating that the best game the team played all year was the first one. They didnít get any better. Yes theyíre young and had to deal with injuries along the way, but I canít find an excuse for why the team peaked in November.

Trey21
03-31-2019, 06:20 PM
Special team. Still the best team this year regardless of a one game tournament. No disrespect to the eventual champion, but I still think this team would win any best of 7.

Shame they will have nothing other ACC tournament championship to hang.

A lot of Freshmen mistakes in this game, but ultimately this L falls on K. Zion hardly got the ball down the stretch. Pretty inexcusable coaching that the best college player in pretty much a decade is on your squad. No disrespected intended, but his lack of adjustments coaching left a lot to be desired in this game. RJ hope you take those FT misses with you to the next level, because you're gonna need them in order to become an all star.

Thanks for the memories fellas. Cam and Tre y'all have the talent to become something special at the next level once you put all your time into working on your game. Hope you all succeed beyond your wildest dreams beyond this year.

kshepinthehouse
03-31-2019, 06:20 PM
Too close. Poor rebounding and too many turnovers. Sad ending to a memorable season and a special team.

We crushed them on the boards.

Furniture
03-31-2019, 06:20 PM
Really fun season to watch with a disappointing end. Nevermind. Iíll focus on the fun....

bludevil_33
03-31-2019, 06:20 PM
Is there a link to the presser?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=im-DVGLSM14

WHOneedsSOX
03-31-2019, 06:21 PM
Tre was absolutely heart broken after the game. I think he'll be back. He was a huge Duke fan before going to Duke. He won't want to end his career like that. The other three obviously will be gone.

Bluedog
03-31-2019, 06:21 PM
Played hard and fought and came up a little short..could have easily been on the winning side but that late 3 (and all the TOs throughout) was the difference. Proud of the team but certainly disappointed in the result. RJ at the FT line has been an adventure all year and somehow he missed when he tried to make and made it when he tried to miss. And the fact we only had three fouls basically eliminated any chance unless we stole the inbounds. So close. Fun season, disappointing ending.

CrazyNotCrazie
03-31-2019, 06:21 PM
I think we had zero fast break points - we had to work way too hard to score.

GGLC
03-31-2019, 06:22 PM
He got assaulted on those lobs. They were pushing him and shoving him midair.

But we can't complain. We had our chances to win it.

This team should have been in the final four. Guys just didn't step up (Tre/Cam). In the end the ball only touched RJ's and Zion's hands. Nobody else wanted it.

We absolutely can and should complain.

Dukehk
03-31-2019, 06:22 PM
I love watching these talented players. but please can we mix it up with some core year to year guys. I would love to be able to sya that we will be strong again next year but we cant because there's no telling with the new crop of players.

Jack White, Bolden and De Laurier are those guys. Its just a shame they aren't on the level of Quinn Cook or Amile Jefferson etc.

GGLC
03-31-2019, 06:23 PM
Tre was absolutely heart broken after the game. I think he'll be back. He was a huge Duke fan before going to Duke. He won't want to end his career like that. The other three obviously will be gone.

Tre absolutely will not be back. Don't kid yourself. Please.

UrinalCake
03-31-2019, 06:24 PM
Couldnít get the ball into Zion without turning it over. Wish we had run some off-ball action to get it to him in the post instead of just standing there trying to lob it in. Winston pushed off with his forearm all game long, those would have obviously been charges had we done it. Still, the game ultimately came down to MSU hitting a big three and us missing free throws. Tough way to lose but we were also fortunate to win the last two.

Dukehk
03-31-2019, 06:25 PM
Tre was absolutely heart broken after the game. I think he'll be back. He was a huge Duke fan before going to Duke. He won't want to end his career like that. The other three obviously will be gone.

He played his heart out, but he was taught a lesson today but a more experienced point guard.

Tre needs to work on his offense because winston had the easiest time guarding him today. No energy spent on defending and he was like a 100 metre sprinter at the end. If Tre comes back, he needs to make the opposition PG work on BOTH ends of the court.

A real shame he couldn't play a final four in his hometown. I still maintain that if we got to Minneapolis, we would have won the whole thing.

Nhoman4
03-31-2019, 06:25 PM
Amazing Duke team. They were better, but just lost. Congrats to MSU.

If anyone says bad things about R.J., just remember they are saying these bad things from their couch or from a TV studio. R.J. is going to be an incredible talent and he already is. I love R.J. and his missed free throw wonít change that.

kAzE
03-31-2019, 06:25 PM
Tre absolutely will not be back. Don't kid yourself. Please.

I'd be surprised if he didn't come back.

WHOneedsSOX
03-31-2019, 06:25 PM
Couldnít get the ball into Zion without turning it over. Wish we had run some off-ball action to get it to him in the post instead of just standing there trying to lob it in. Winston pushed off with his forearm all game long, those would have obviously been charges had we done it. Still, the game ultimately came down to MSU hitting a big three and us missing free throws. Tough way to lose but we were also fortunate to win the last two.

Should've given it to him on the elbow more than twice all game. Or anywhere on the court, really. Guy just makes plays for himself or his teammates.

nmduke2001
03-31-2019, 06:25 PM
Maui all over again at the end. Zion doesnít get a touch and we lose a close one.

bludevil_33
03-31-2019, 06:25 PM
Still the best team this year regardless of a one game tournament.


I disagree. This team had one (Kentucky), maybe two (Texas Tech) or three (at Virginia) dominating performances against elite talent, the best one being the very first game of the season.

Other than that, it was the kind of scratching and clawing and freshman mistakes you'd expect from a team starting four freshmen. Duke lived up to its hype too infrequently.

wsb3
03-31-2019, 06:25 PM
It is disappointing to say the least but what a fun ride. I will always wonder what could have been if we had stayed healthy. We were not able to have the continuity to become our best. I hate losing but what an incredible weekend of college basketball. So proud of the game Javin played. I believe he had a double double.

WakeDevil
03-31-2019, 06:26 PM
We crushed them on the boards.

There is offensive rebounding, and there is defensive rebounding. Rebounding totals without reference to turnovers are not meaningful.

bludevil_33
03-31-2019, 06:26 PM
Maui all over again at the end. Zion doesnít get a touch and we lose a close one.


Did you not see how many times we turned it over trying to get the ball to Zion in the last five minutes? And RJ had just hit several shots in a row. Come on.

GGLC
03-31-2019, 06:26 PM
I'd be surprised if he didn't come back.

Get ready to be surprised.

KandG
03-31-2019, 06:27 PM
Played with fire for a lot of the latter part of the season and finally got burned. I still love this team.

Finally a team beat us by making almost no mistakes down the stretch. Have to credit Michigan State, and let's face it, to beat us they needed some luck. Thought the key sequence was Goins' first three that was heavily contested, and the circus shot by McQuaid to put them back up 58-56. We defended exceptionally on both and they got five points to get the momentum back.

Yes, Zion should have touched the ball on one of those final sequences, but let's give MSU credit, they made it really hard for Zion to get the ball the final 8 minutes or so -- probably the best job of any opponent outside of Texas Tech. That fact that even Tre Jones got a turnover (his first in 85 minutes of tournament play) on an entry pass tells you how tough it was.

Still thought we could pull off a miracle finish, but I had a bad feeling when we only had 3 fouls in a one possession game and there were three or four minutes left. Our ability to defend without fouling (good and bad) ended up robbing us of the ability to extend the game in case we made mistakes -- and this young team committed too many tonight.

Obviously, the run at the end of the first half was also a big contributor to our demise, but we've had lapses like that all season. Just cost us too much against a very well-coached opponent, and now we're not going to the Final Four.

Wander
03-31-2019, 06:27 PM
A lot of Freshmen mistakes in this game, but ultimately this L falls on K. Zion hardly got the ball down the stretch. Pretty inexcusable coaching that the best college player in pretty much a decade is on your squad.

We've only had two games that we've lost while fully healthy this year. Here are the combined stats for the last minute of those games:


RJ takes shots on 8 possessions, makes zero and gets 1 point from a free throw
Zion takes 0 shots


RJ is a good player, but the above has to be one of the most disappointing statistics in Duke basketball history – and is going to look more so when Zion eventually Lebrons the NBA.

Wildling
03-31-2019, 06:27 PM
Jack White, Bolden and De Laurier are those guys. Its just a shame they aren't on the level of Quinn Cook or Amile Jefferson etc.

Oh man, what a difference Cook and Jefferson would have made on this years team! I don't think people realize the amazing amount of leadership they provided to the young guys. Something this years team was missing big time!

WHOneedsSOX
03-31-2019, 06:28 PM
Did you not see how many times we turned it over trying to get the ball to Zion in the last five minutes? And RJ had just hit several shots in a row. Come on.

Yeah, I agree. RJ took that horrible 3 right before the last possession but he got 2 free throws to tie the game. Can't ask for much better than that.

Onlyduke
03-31-2019, 06:28 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=im-DVGLSM14

Thanks bludevil 33.

Ian
03-31-2019, 06:28 PM
Tactically, we should have been fouling like crazy on that last possession where MSU hit the 3, not only would be make it harder for them to score, but it also gets quicker into the bonus so we have a shot to force FTs late.

But overall, we lost this game the last 5 minutes of the 1st half when our frehsmen lost their composure and played like freshmen, we could have thrown a knockout punch there, but instead we got sloppy with the ball.

This is what happens with young inexperienced team. The tournament is a cauldron that tests both your skills and your will, it's hard to maintain mental balance when you haven't been through it before. That's ultimately the problem with the OAD recruiting philosophy. Yes we caught lightning in a bottle in 2015, but even 2015 had huge veteran contributors like Quinn and Amile who can help guide the team. Having a group of freshmen trying to figure it out on their own is not a good recipe for success.

JD for Three!
03-31-2019, 06:28 PM
Frankly, I was shocked that the ref even called the foul that sent R.J. to the line. I donít watch the NBA because I hate the way it is called. It is horrible when they call college games that way. Maybe when they change the one and done process they will take all of that crap with them to the NBA.

Otherwise, a great bunch of kids that made the year fun. I feel sad for them that they wonít get a shot at the title.

kAzE
03-31-2019, 06:29 PM
Get ready to be surprised.

Okay, if you're so certain, I'll pie bet you: Tre Jones will be a back for a sophomore year at Duke.

Steven43
03-31-2019, 06:29 PM
Pulling HARD for the Virginia Cavaliers now.

dukelifer
03-31-2019, 06:29 PM
Tough loss. Duke had its chances. Up 1 with 44 sec- cant ask for more. But Duke did not execute down the stretch of either half. This was a fun team to watch but these games can go either way. All 4 teams in the FF easily could have lost this weekend. A bounce here, a free throw there and it is all different. CBS is really upset. This FF will attract no eyeballs. The other 4 could start their own FF and I bet it would be of greater interest.

kako
03-31-2019, 06:29 PM
Guys just didn't step up (Tre/Cam). In the end the ball only touched RJ's and Zion's hands. Nobody else wanted it.

Jones held Winston to 9-23 shooting. He worked his tail off out there on defense, grabbed 4 boards, had a block, and he still had a 5:1 A/TO ratio. I'd say he did his job.

9F

bluenorth
03-31-2019, 06:29 PM
What a great ride the season was. The players looked tired tonight, probably the cumulative effect of so many minutes played by the core group over the course of the year. Give credit to MSU for defending so hard and effectively.

Thank you to all of the players and the staff who made this such an exciting year. Now I can put the defibrillator back into storage for a while (the silver lining in the outcome).

HereBeforeCoachK
03-31-2019, 06:29 PM
Get ready to be surprised.

Get ready for the G League then

tmoon78
03-31-2019, 06:29 PM
Iím not sure Iíve ever seen an elite 8 game where neither team got into the bonus to shoot free throws. The majority of dukeís turnovers were when they were trying to enter the ball to Zion in the post. The only way to defend Zion below the free throw line is to either not allow him to catch the ball by bumping/holding him when he tries to jump and catch the entry pass or to absolutely body and hit his arms on every shot attempt. Michigan state did both the entire game and were rewarded by never being called on those plays. Duke still had their chances to win the game but the only reason the Spartans were still in the game is because they were allowed to play football in the paint

Bluedog
03-31-2019, 06:30 PM
Last play was good. Just didn't hit FTs. And the open 3 from MSU was a dagger.

84Duke
03-31-2019, 06:30 PM
Iím sure the MSU coaches and players are happy that Duke didnít try to beat them with Zion in the last minute. Not sure it would have changed the outcome, but weíre never going to know, are we?

GGLC
03-31-2019, 06:31 PM
Okay, if you're so certain, I'll pie bet you: Tre Jones will be a back for a sophomore year at Duke.

I will bet you three pies for your one.

SamHouston
03-31-2019, 06:31 PM
Special team. Still the best team this year regardless of a one game tournament. No disrespect to the eventual champion, but I still think this team would win any best of 7.

Shame they will have nothing other ACC tournament championship to hang.

A lot of Freshmen mistakes in this game, but ultimately this L falls on K. Zion hardly got the ball down the stretch. Pretty inexcusable coaching that the best college player in pretty much a decade is on your squad. No disrespected intended, but his lack of adjustments coaching left a lot to be desired in this game. RJ hope you take those FT misses with you to the next level, because you're gonna need them in order to become an all star.

Thanks for the memories fellas. Cam and Tre y'all have the talent to become something special at the next level once you put all your time into working on your game. Hope you all succeed beyond your wildest dreams beyond this year.


I know by convention, players are taken out after second foul in the first half. After that conservative move with the best player in college bb, MSU's confidence immediately jumped and Duke was in a fight for the rest of the game. That decision killed the natural flow that Duke had just developed. I am still shaking my head on that decision with a once in a lifetime player.

RepoMan
03-31-2019, 06:33 PM
We lost because of the unforced turnovers. Plain and simple.

But, what a fun ride. I feel like I got hit by a truck right now, but if you are only happy if we win it all, you are missing out.

These guys competed hard all year. And it was a lot of fun.

rocketeli
03-31-2019, 06:33 PM
Once I sang the blues
Because I had no shoes.
Then upon the street
I met a man who had no feet.

Disappointing loss, but almost every other team in America would sell their soul for the chance to lose this far in the post season.

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
03-31-2019, 06:34 PM
Bad threes and free throws eventually catch up. Sad I will never see Zion in a Duke jersey again.

Fun season.

GGLC
03-31-2019, 06:34 PM
We lost because of the unforced turnovers. Plain and simple.

But, what a fun ride. I feel like I got hit by a truck right now, but if you are only happy if we win it all, you are missing out.

These guys competed hard all year. And it was a lot of fun.

No it wasn't.

gocanes0506
03-31-2019, 06:34 PM
Once I sang the blues
Because I had no shoes.
Then upon the street
I met a man who had no feet.

Disappointing loss, but almost every other team in America would sell their soul for the chance to lose this far in the post season.

Those squads arenít of Duke lineage.

AvlDukie
03-31-2019, 06:34 PM
Agree with others that this one feels a little tougher than some of our other tournament losses - primarily because of the amazing journey this team took us all on...
It was such a pleasure to watch this group of freshmen, particularly of course RJ and Zion.
RJ was the one constant all season - playing every game and leading us time and time again. One missed FT could never diminish the heart and grit he showed all of us all season long.
And Zion - what can one say but wow and thank you! We will never see the likes of you again...
Congrats to MSU - certainly a worthy opponent to have lost to. They made the big shot and deserved the win.
To Coach and all of our guys - thanks for the incredible ride!
Go Duke!

rsvman
03-31-2019, 06:34 PM
I know by convention, players are taken out after second foul in the first half. After that conservative move with the best player in college bb, MSU's confidence immediately jumped and Duke was in a fight for the rest of the game. That decision killed the natural flow that Duke had just developed. I am still shaking my head on that decision with a once in a lifetime player.

Disagree. The sad part is that both of Zion's fouls we're ill-advised plays. What is he doing fouling somebody 44 feet from the basket?

SoCalDukeFan
03-31-2019, 06:34 PM
Izzo did a great job.

Duke made too many mistakes.

I picked Duke in my bracket with my heart but my head said we would not win it all.

SoCal

Devilwin
03-31-2019, 06:35 PM
We've only had two games that we've lost while fully healthy this year. Here are the combined stats for the last minute of those games:


RJ takes shots on 8 possessions, makes zero and gets 1 point from a free throw
Zion takes 0 shots


RJ is a good player, but the above has to be one of the most disappointing statistics in Duke basketball history Ė and is going to look more so when Zion eventually Lebrons the NBA.

I agree. RJ was not my first choice either. He, like Reddish, is NOT a great shooter. In the end, that is what cost us..

FerryFor50
03-31-2019, 06:36 PM
Really disappointing end to the season.

MSU played really fast - much faster than I expected. (They’re 193rd in the country in pace) They did the UNC thing - fast break off a made basket. Duke didn’t defend it well.

I thought Tre did a decent job on Winston overall, but MSU kept forcing switches on bigs. Duke never adjusted to that and it burned them a few times.

Delaurier was outstanding. He was one of the main reasons Duke won the battle of the boards.

I thought Zion was great overall, but he looked too amped up in the first half and that translated into bad fouls.

RJ was good, but I felt like Zion should have gotten the ball in the post at tye end.

The defense was great in the last couple minutes- until they left Goins wide open.

The refs “let them play.” I said in the pregame thread that it wasn’t going to be great for Duke if that happened. And it wasn’t. MSU was able to hold and push Zion on entry lobs with no call, and Duke was nowhere near the bonus when they needed to foul to get the ball back. But a few of those entry passes were awful and 17 turnovers are hard to overcome.

This team was good enough to win it all, but a combination of injuries, inexperience and a bad matchup finally did them in. I’d also wager that winning back to back nail biters because the other team blew the final shot led to a little complacency - as if it was predestined.

Just sucks overall. ��

Duke79UNLV77
03-31-2019, 06:36 PM
Up 3 late and no more shots for the best college player in decades. Barrett is a great player, but if Iím going to go down, I want it to be with Zion attacking the rim. I thought he unnecessarily passed the ball on the play when RJ bricked a drive. Last year, we didnít go to Bagley late. Also like last year, we had one late defensive lapse to give up an open 3, and didnít get away with it.

Super fun team to watch. Played with a lot of heart and joy. Some definite weaknesses and amazing strengths. Heartbreaking end.

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
03-31-2019, 06:36 PM
No it wasn't.

Oh hush. This season was awesome to watch.

Selover
03-31-2019, 06:37 PM
If Zion doesn't come back he doesn't care about Duke. *ducks* *ducks again*

What a fun year, we are lucky to have watched these guys at Duke and I hope they all have great careers at the next level.

Bob Green
03-31-2019, 06:39 PM
If anyone says bad things about R.J., just remember they are saying these bad things from their couch or from a TV studio.

R.J. was The Man in the Arena.

GGLC
03-31-2019, 06:39 PM
Oh hush. This season was awesome to watch.

Yes, it was. But no, it wasn't. Who cares. Just another group of players we'll never see again that everyone else rooted against for no reason.

bludevil_33
03-31-2019, 06:39 PM
Oh hush. This season was awesome to watch.

It was fun. I wouldn't put it in the awesome category. I reserve awesome for natty teams.

This season it felt like the team was always trying to get back to the level of the Kentucky game, trying to measure up to expectations, and it just never could. This team had maybe three dominating performances. Knowing what we know now about Zion's skill level and RJ's potential, it's hard for me to look back on this season and say it was awesome other than the opportunity to witness the miracle that is Zion Williamson.

scottdude8
03-31-2019, 06:39 PM
This hurts so bad. I loved this team. I loved these guys. No matter your criticism you canít say they didnít play their hearts out.

It just sucks to know we lost to a team that, while older and wiser, had vastly inferior talent. MSU turned the game into a wrestling match down low, as they often do, and got away with it. A lot of the lobs that turned into TOs would be fouls 9 out of 10 times. It also sucks knowing we certainly werenít 100%... Cam made some shots but clearly wasnít himself. It was the curse of this team all year.

And as much as FTs were our Achilles heel it just kills me that that will be RJs legacy. Yes he played hero ball, but he had to the way the game was being called. Heís more than a guy that missed that FT. I hope time and perspective will reveal that.

I loved this team more than any since 2010. They had fun and loved each other and it showed. There is some solace in the fact that they earned an ACC Championship banner... but right now, not much.

And if happened to MSU, a program that (donít forget) has actively participated in covering up sexual assault allegations against its players for decades. Thatís not my Michigan bias, itís a fact. All this stuff about Izzo as a good guy drives me insane.

This hurts. A lot. Itíll be a while to recover from this.

Buckeye Devil
03-31-2019, 06:39 PM
Devastating.

Too many turnovers, missed FT's and mental mistakes.

And to not even get Zion the ball at the end of the game is inexcusable.

ACCfaninVirginia
03-31-2019, 06:40 PM
Tre was absolutely heart broken after the game. I think he'll be back. He was a huge Duke fan before going to Duke. He won't want to end his career like that. The other three obviously will be gone.

Reddish ahould return too, otherwise he is playing in Europe or China next year.

dukelifer
03-31-2019, 06:41 PM
Reddish ahould return too, otherwise he is playing in Europe or China next year.

That is pretty silly. Cam is being drafted in the first round- no question about that.

ns7
03-31-2019, 06:41 PM
Dang. If you told me we would out-shoot and out-rebound MSU, I would have said we'd win by 10. Forcing TOs was our big advantage and we completely flopped in that phase of the game.

kAzE
03-31-2019, 06:41 PM
I will bet you three pies for your one.

Alright, if you say so. If Tre Jones returns to Duke for a 2nd year, you owe me 3 pies. If he goes pro, I'll owe you 1 pie.

bluenorth
03-31-2019, 06:42 PM
R.J. was The Man in the Arena.

So true. T. Roosevelt was right. It's better to have been in there, and wanting the ball, than to spectate from afar (paraphrasing heavily).

Selover
03-31-2019, 06:42 PM
Reddish ahould return too, otherwise he is playing in Europe or China next year.

Kinda hope you're right but also think you're kinda crazy.

Cheers!

bedeviled
03-31-2019, 06:42 PM
Congrats to MSU, VT, and UCF for tough games and their abilities to keep making plays.

Hard for me to be upset about this game and this season - any shortcomings are entirely on us. Excuses (injuries, reffing, etc) and blame are silly given the attributes and potential of the program/team this season. I'm sad we won't get to see these guys blossom further while in a Duke uniform :(

I was entertained throughout (and mostly joyful, too). Thanks Duke!

uh_no
03-31-2019, 06:42 PM
I'd be surprised if he didn't come back.

of all the frosh, he has the most to gain...not necessarily in the draft, but because he needs to shoot far more consistently to be successful.

The big NBA money isn't in getting drafted, but getting that second contract....and he won't get big money at 25% from 3.

WHOneedsSOX
03-31-2019, 06:43 PM
Reddish ahould return too, otherwise he is playing in Europe or China next year.

Cam is going in the lottery almost for sure. He's the prototypical 3 and D player NBA teams love.

J4Kop99
03-31-2019, 06:43 PM
It all comes back to this:

17 turnovers. Lose by 1 point.

Bluedog
03-31-2019, 06:44 PM
They had 13 more shots than us (because of TOs). That's hard to overcome.

Furniture
03-31-2019, 06:44 PM
but if you are only happy if we win it all, you are missing out.


Well said..

WHOneedsSOX
03-31-2019, 06:45 PM
Man I thought that RJ 3 was going to be the winning shot. The one that put them ahead and kept them there. Unfortunately it wasn't. Tough to lose when you beat yourself. Michigan State deserved the win but Duke did not play their "A" game either. More like their "C" game tonight.

Buckeye Devil
03-31-2019, 06:45 PM
I am beginning to wonder if K will ever get back to the Final 4 again. His window isn't going to be open much longer and there are no guarantees of having a team like this on the brink of a Final 4 again. I think CBS jinxed him when they talked about breaking Wooden's record and that Wooden reached his final Final 4 40 years ago.

Barnstormer
03-31-2019, 06:45 PM
I circled this game because coach K was 11-1 against Izzo. Duke already beat him this year and it was time for the ball to bounce their way. Itís a shame because I believe this was the greatest college team that Coach K ever coached but you have to have luck on your side. They did for earlier games but this team was tired at the end. I am thankful for the contributions of each member and I believe that you learn more from the losses. Please donít criticize the players, the referees, or the coaching. It was fate and Michigan Stateís turn.

dukelifer
03-31-2019, 06:46 PM
Tre never took control of the game. He worked hard on D and perhaps was a bit gassed. MSU is hard-nosed and was very physical all night. We will see if Izzo gets another ring. He has been knocking on the door but can't seem to get it done. The next two games in the FF could be really ugly.

joeymax
03-31-2019, 06:47 PM
We looked slow. We were sloppy. There wasnít anywhere near enough the number of fouls that should have been called on both teams, but thatís a tournament game for you.

I generally watch in silence with my kids around, but had to yell at the tv a bit when we werenít using our fouls up to keep them out of sync at the end. That was totally perplexing, and had no idea it would cost again later.

And I just wouldíve liked to see how a Zion drive with seconds left would have ended. Guess I can look the the last game

Potato
03-31-2019, 06:48 PM
Reddish ahould return too, otherwise he is playing in Europe or China next year.

Galaxy brain take lol. There's a 0% chance Cam doesn't hear his name called in the top 10. I actually really like his potential as an NBA player. If his shot gets more consistent he could become an elite 3 & D guy which is super valuable in the league these days.

dukelifer
03-31-2019, 06:48 PM
I am beginning to wonder if K will ever get back to the Final 4 again. His window isn't going to be open much longer and there are no guarantees of having a team like this on the brink of a Final 4 again. I think CBS jinxed him when they talked about breaking Wooden's record and that Wooden reached his final Final 4 40 years ago.

Well he has had two teams in a row on the brink of a FF. I think he will be just fine.

LSanders
03-31-2019, 06:48 PM
Reminds me of 1999 .. Best team managed to lose

J4Kop99
03-31-2019, 06:48 PM
Tre never took control of the game. He worked hard on D and perhaps was a bit gassed. MSU is hard-nosed and was very physical all night. We will see if Izzo gets another ring. He has been knocking on the door but can't seem to get it done. The next two games in the FF could be really ugly.

The CBS execs might be even more upset/frustrated than we are...

jipops
03-31-2019, 06:49 PM
I find it amazing that the Cleveland Cavaliers wouldnít even be able to make the Final Four this year.

WHOneedsSOX
03-31-2019, 06:49 PM
The CBS execs might be even more upset/frustrated than we are...

Yeah, I don't think I'll tune in at all. Not because I'm mad or anything but because I have no interest.


I find it amazing that the Cleveland Cavaliers wouldn’t even be able to make the Final Four this year.

I sure hope Zion doesn't end up there.

ns7
03-31-2019, 06:50 PM
MSU turned the game into a wrestling match down low, as they often do, and got away with it. A lot of the lobs that turned into TOs would be fouls 9 out of 10 times.

This. There was one particularly bad one when they pushed Zion to the ground.

freshmanjs
03-31-2019, 06:51 PM
Duke already beat him this year and it was time for the ball to bounce their way.

When was that? I thought I saw all the games this season...

Furniture
03-31-2019, 06:53 PM
Good lord. Did you watch the game? Did you watch how many times we turned the ball over trying to lob the ball into Zion? MSU did the best of any team (by far) this year at denying Zion the ball.

This is what I saw too...

dukelifer
03-31-2019, 06:53 PM
It was fun. I wouldn't put it in the awesome category. I reserve awesome for natty teams.

This season it felt like the team was always trying to get back to the level of the Kentucky game, trying to measure up to expectations, and it just never could. This team had maybe three dominating performances. Knowing what we know now about Zion's skill level and RJ's potential, it's hard for me to look back on this season and say it was awesome other than the opportunity to witness the miracle that is Zion Williamson.
1999 was a pretty awesome team - maybe the most awesome- and they didn't win it all.

dudog84
03-31-2019, 06:54 PM
I circled this game because coach K was 11-1 against Izzo. Duke already beat him this year and it was time for the ball to bounce their way. Itís a shame because I believe this was the greatest college team that Coach K ever coached but you have to have luck on your side. They did for earlier games but this team was tired at the end. I am thankful for the contributions of each member and I believe that you learn more from the losses. Please donít criticize the players, the referees, or the coaching. It was fate and Michigan Stateís turn.

Something tells me you weren't alive in 1992.

dukelion
03-31-2019, 06:54 PM
If we are honest with ourselves this was a deeply flawed team that had elite talent to cover up the worts.

Historically terrible 3pt shooting, bad free % (which almost bit us against Vatech and then did today), bad defensive rebounding, injuries, limited depth and youth. Turnovers were generally not an issue but were a pretty big disaster tonight.

Zion made it a season for the ages and enjoyed every minute of it.

Congrats to Izzo and the Spartans. They played to their strengths, didn't turn the ball over and hit big shots when they were needed. A tried and true basketball formula.

KandG
03-31-2019, 06:54 PM
But, what a fun ride. I feel like I got hit by a truck right now, but if you are only happy if we win it all, you are missing out.

These guys competed hard all year. And it was a lot of fun.

Thank you for this. This was an amazingly rewarding team to watch all season. Undone in the end by their flaws and their youth, yet it was so close.

This one is a close second to 1999 as far as disappointment, though that was worse in my opinion because I thought that team was superior. But I don't know if any future non-championship seasons will be remotely as memorable as this one. Wonderful group of guys who had to deal with the most exposure a Duke team has ever had.

hsheffield
03-31-2019, 06:54 PM
It has been a privilege to watch this team.


I'm grateful for all the fun that being a Duke fan provides.


Really.

devilnfla
03-31-2019, 06:55 PM
I circled this game because coach K was 11-1 against Izzo. Duke already beat him this year and it was time for the ball to bounce their way.

Duke did not play or beat him this year.

uh_no
03-31-2019, 06:56 PM
Reminds me of 1999 .. Best team managed to lose

we weren't the best team. it shuldn't have taken miracle misses to win the previous 2 were we the best team.

dukelifer
03-31-2019, 06:56 PM
I circled this game because coach K was 11-1 against Izzo. Duke already beat him this year and it was time for the ball to bounce their way. Itís a shame because I believe this was the greatest college team that Coach K ever coached but you have to have luck on your side. They did for earlier games but this team was tired at the end. I am thankful for the contributions of each member and I believe that you learn more from the losses. Please donít criticize the players, the referees, or the coaching. It was fate and Michigan Stateís turn.
Didn't play them this year and not the greatest college team the K has ever coached. He has coached some pretty special teams.

Billy Dat
03-31-2019, 06:56 PM
This one really hurts.

UCF...we miss a FT but miraculously get the rebound and put back and they miss at the rim. VTech, we miss a free throw and they miraculously miss at the rim. MSU...we miss a free throw and we lose. We definitely played with FT fire too many times in this tournament.



They had 13 more shots than us (because of TOs). That's hard to overcome.

Indeed. This was a huge story. I agree that I wanted Zion to get the ball, but we consistently turned it over every time we tried to force it into him...and if I am MSU at the end I foul him and see if he can hit FTs.


I am beginning to wonder if K will ever get back to the Final 4 again. His window isn't going to be open much longer and there are no guarantees of having a team like this on the brink of a Final 4 again. I think CBS jinxed him when they talked about breaking Wooden's record and that Wooden reached his final Final 4 40 years ago.

Your thought is what makes me sad, but if college basketball proves anything it is that sometimes the team you don't expect can make a run to a Final Four.

Assuming the 4 freshmen leave, I hope that our 3 seniors stay (I always feel like Marques is on a series of one year contracts) as I think they are a great backbone, along with our sophomores in Alex and Jordan. We'll be older and those guys should all be rotation players.

It was great watching Zion, RJ, Cam and Tre. You guys gave us a once-in-a-lifetime CELEBRITY season, and an ACC Tournament title.

Thanks Vrank and Brennan.

Ultimately, I think we had just enough injuries that we never quite could achieve our full potential. Our best game was the first game of the season, which is kind of crazy. The injuries weren't as bad as 2017, but they were really disruptive and, ultimately, I think, never let us install the next levels of stuff that may have made our offense completely unguardable.

This is always the worst day of the year. As for the Final Four, I cannot join the UVA party that so many seem to enjoy. Anybody but the Hoos for me. If I had to pick one, I am rolling with Texas Tech.

Onlyduke
03-31-2019, 06:56 PM
It's so hard to lose the close games. You think of every missed free throw, every turnover, every bad play.

I have loved watching this team, especially Zion, just a really good guy. I'm going to miss him so much!

Saratoga2
03-31-2019, 06:57 PM
Who else would you blame for missing the free throws that RJ alone shot? :confused:

Other free throws were missed by our players during the game. That one just was more visible. The real story is we turned the ball over way too often and it cost us. It happens and it will be tough to see this season end and the great freshmen go on to their NBA careers. I really loved the effort these kids gave and the enthusiasm they brought. We all need some time to cool off as criticisms of these guys is unkind.

simplyluvin
03-31-2019, 06:57 PM
Well he has had two teams in a row on the brink of a FF. I think he will be just fine.

Iím actually with Buckeye here. This was likely Coachís best chance for at least the next couple of years. Hoping he gets his sixth at some point, but I canít see the next couple of teams being as talented as this one.

GGLC
03-31-2019, 06:58 PM
Alright, if you say so. If Tre Jones returns to Duke for a 2nd year, you owe me 3 pies. If he goes pro, I'll owe you 1 pie.

Booked.

Potato
03-31-2019, 06:59 PM
we weren't the best team. it shuldn't have taken miracle misses to win the previous 2 were we the best team.

Agreed. Don't see how people are acting like we were the best team when it took an absolute miracle to make it out of the first weekend. I do agree with another user, we probably beat any team in a 7 game series. But that's not the way March Madness works. There isn't much room for error. Tonight we made far too many errors. We were definitely more talented, but turned the ball over and made poor decisions way too much. That 13-0 run to end the half sucked.

bludevil_33
03-31-2019, 06:59 PM
If we are honest with ourselves this was a deeply flawed team that had elite talent to cover up the worts.



Well, yes and no. The first half of the season, this team was truly elite. Top offense in the country, top 5 defense in the country according to KenPom.

Then Tre got hurt. And Cam. And then Zion.

I just don't think this team ever got its mojo fully back. I really feel like they started to doubt themselves and never fully pulled it together mentally from the absolute roller coaster that started at the Louisville game and carried through today.

bluenorth
03-31-2019, 06:59 PM
As I said earlier in the thread, it was a great ride. Now, can we get over this one and done era? I'd love to see a return to having players who stay and develop as a group over 3-4 years, even if they may not have the talent level of the OADs. Wishful thinking.

gofurman
03-31-2019, 07:02 PM
Donít know whatís worse the playing at the end or the Uber driver that almost crashed taking me back from JFK. Our luck ran out tonight and teams that win championships make stops and hit FTs when it counts. These guys didnít

MSU must not be a title team. They were horrible from FT line MUCH WORSE THAN DUKE.

MSU 2-6. FTs. 33 pct
Duke 8-13. FTs. 61pct

We killed them on FTs and hit 7/21 3s for 33%

TURNOVERS killed us. Turn. Overs. I was the one who posited the 70/30 rule. That if we hit 70% FTs and 30% threes we could beat anyone. Iíll admit FTs weíre slightly short of this target today

rsvman
03-31-2019, 07:02 PM
Saddest part is that had we managed to win this one, I really think we would have won the whole thing.

dukelifer
03-31-2019, 07:02 PM
Thank you for this. This was an amazingly rewarding team to watch all season. Undone in the end by their flaws and their youth, yet it was so close.

This one is a close second to 1999 as far as disappointment, though that was worse in my opinion because I thought that team was superior. But I don't know if any future non-championship seasons will be remotely as memorable as this one. Wonderful group of guys who had to deal with the most exposure a Duke team has ever had.
This team lacked the senior leadership that has been a hallmark of Duke teams. This team overachieved in many ways. Zion is a once in a generation talent. RJ was excellent all year but the other guys were just solid and at times inconsistent- like most Freshman. Duke may never have two Freshman quite like Zion and RJ Barrett again. They will have Freshman like Tre Jones and Cam Reddish again. This team won the ACC championship - battled all year and had some highlight fast breaks. A fun team but not a great team- because not just enough time to gel. If they all stuck around- this team would be amazing next year.

killerleft
03-31-2019, 07:03 PM
I disagree. This team had one (Kentucky), maybe two (Texas Tech) or three (at Virginia) dominating performances against elite talent, the best one being the very first game of the season.

Other than that, it was the kind of scratching and clawing and freshman mistakes you'd expect from a team starting four freshmen. Duke lived up to its hype too infrequently.

See the word I bolded? You weren't supposed to believe the hype, that's fool's gold. We were very good, young as always, and still barely missed the Final Four. I enjoyed the ride this team gave us, and was frustrated when they made mistakes young guys will make.

We were, in a way, a victim of that first Kentucky game. No team could keep that up, though we played some great games later. Our record against the elite teams was quite good.

Hindsight is great. Wish we'd taken a couple defensive chances for steals and committed the necessary fouls when we were four ahead.

I'm just sad the ride is over.

Troublemaker
03-31-2019, 07:03 PM
Iím actually with Buckeye here. This was likely Coachís best chance for at least the next couple of years.

It just depends on which players we land in recruiting. Not limited to high school seniors, btw -- there's an impact transfer we're after, and reclassifications are possible.


Hoping he gets his sixth at some point, but I canít see the next couple of teams being as talented as this one.

That might be true in a vacuum, but if we land some shooters, we might have a team that fits together better offensively. (This team fit together great defensively, though).

WHOneedsSOX
03-31-2019, 07:04 PM
Saddest part is that had we managed to win this one, I really think we would have won the whole thing.

They certainly would've been favored against Texas Tech and whoever came out from the other side. This team when on is unbeatable. Needed 1 more stop or 1 more big free throw. Unfortunately things didn't work out that way. I'm still in shock that guy made that 3. Not that it was lucky but I didn't think anyone was shooting except Winston.

TruBlu
03-31-2019, 07:05 PM
Well, yes and no. The first half of the season, this team was truly elite. Top offense in the country, top 5 defense in the country according to KenPom.

Then Tre got hurt. And Cam. And then Zion.

I just don't think this team ever got its mojo fully back. I really feel like they started to doubt themselves and never fully pulled it together mentally from the absolute roller coaster that started at the Louisville game and carried through today.

And Bolden. And Jack.

It's hard to have team continuity with all the injuries. And all the injuries, caused a depleted bench.

TKG
03-31-2019, 07:06 PM
Snark Alert: when do the next batch of one-and-done, lottery picks show up on campus so we can start creating the next batch of hype videos? Sweep out the old and bring in the new. Where do next years’ freshmen phenoms appear on the mock draft boards for 2020. Gotta start building those relationships so hopefully they’re here for at least one session of summer school.

Sorry, folks, I am a little salty after this game (in case you couldn’t tell).

sbroc012
03-31-2019, 07:06 PM
Saddest part is that had we managed to win this one, I really think we would have won the whole thing.

typically is the case. this tournament stinks for crowning the best team. it's simply a tournament that crowns a winner. its just like the Arizona game with Kyrie. we win that game and waltz to a title (UConn won that year as an 8 seed)

InSpades
03-31-2019, 07:07 PM
You play with fire enough times... you'll eventually get burnt.

Games like these last 3 come down to making 1 extra play... the 1st 2 times Duke did it (or their opponent failed to do it) and this time we were on the other end.

Those types of games are expected but when they happen every time out... you either aren't better or you are doing something wrong. I refuse to believe we aren't better.

I think we had enough talent to do more on offense but we made things really hard on ourselves. Too many turnovers, too many tough shots. This was a recurring theme for this team. It seems like we ran the same "play" every time down the court for the 2nd half. We never got Zion more involved. How many lobs did we try that didn't work? Too many. Oh well.

We will always view this as a season that got away from us... we were good enough to win it all but we didn't.

Credit to MSU and Winston. They played really well.

g-money
03-31-2019, 07:07 PM
As I said earlier in the thread, it was a great ride. Now, can we get over this one and done era? I'd love to see a return to having players who stay and develop as a group over 3-4 years, even if they may not have the talent level of the OADs. Wishful thinking.

Iím with you, if only because Iím strangely numb to this loss. No crushing of beer cans or wall punching like prior years. :)

The team we had on the floor had the talent advantage, sure, but we got outsmarted and, dare I say, outcoached at the end. (Perhaps another way to put this is: great play-calling by Izzo.)

It feels like the same story as last year, only without a senior like Grayson to pull for.

Like I said, numb.

WillJ
03-31-2019, 07:08 PM
Fun season - frustrating to an extent, but then they always are when you feel like you could have won but didn't. All the kids were fun to watch, but Zion is my favorite player ever....I'll make a point to watch his games next year, too.
Shout out to Javin Delaurier for playing perhaps his best game.

MrPoon
03-31-2019, 07:08 PM
Man am I heart broken. I donít want to spend energy on the snarky comments about what was wrong with this team. It was special all season. They played one of the hardest schedules Iíve ever seen. Survived an amazing littanly of injuries and still managed to carry the burden of all the pressure and eyes on them. This team wins any best of three series possible but tonight was one point short. They werenít perfect but they were amazingly special and I donít want to read anyone who wants to say differently at this moment.

This will always be remembered as the season of Zion but holy crap is RJ a special player. So pleased with what Cam and Tre gave us all. I just donít want it to end. Even if it means no Nat Title, I just want to see more games with these guys.

GGLC
03-31-2019, 07:09 PM
He might.

He won't.

duke96
03-31-2019, 07:10 PM
He won't.

Sleep it off man

bluenorth
03-31-2019, 07:11 PM
Iím with you, if only because Iím strangely numb to this loss. No crushing of beer cans or wall punching like prior years. :)

The team we had on the floor had the talent advantage, sure, but we got outsmarted and, dare I say, outcoached at the end. (Perhaps another way to put this is: great play-calling by Izzo.)

It feels like the same story as last year, only without a senior like Grayson to pull for.

Like I said, numb.

Yep, it's not quite the same as watching a player come in and mature over a period of a few years. Maybe AOC, White, Bolden, DeLaurier et al can do some of that next year. I'm not too familiar with next year's crop of freshmen yet, but assume that most of them won't be around for graduation ceremonies.

HereBeforeCoachK
03-31-2019, 07:12 PM
Iím with you, if only because Iím strangely numb to this loss. No crushing of beer cans or wall punching like prior years. :)

The team we had on the floor had the talent advantage, sure, but we got outsmarted and, dare I say, outcoached at the end. (Perhaps another way to put this is: great play-calling by Izzo.)

It feels like the same story as last year, only without a senior like Grayson to pull for.

Like I said, numb.

I kinda feel the same way. I just watched the play with the 3.....WTF was Tre doing leaving the shooter??????? Zion tried to close out.....but Tre left him. SMH....

dukelion
03-31-2019, 07:15 PM
I kinda feel the same way. I just watched the play with the 3....WTF was Tre doing leaving the shooter??????? Zion tried to close out....but Tre left him. SMH...


Agreed

And therein lies part of the problem with youth vs talent. We marvel at the dunks but mistakes like are the difference between winning and losing.

HereBeforeCoachK
03-31-2019, 07:16 PM
Saddest part is that had we managed to win this one, I really think we would have won the whole thing.

Yep, and I think making the FF would have loosened this team up....say what you want about "great season" and "fun ride" - with the expectations and hype, short of the FF is a tough one to swallow

WHOneedsSOX
03-31-2019, 07:16 PM
I kinda feel the same way. I just watched the play with the 3....WTF was Tre doing leaving the shooter??????? Zion tried to close out....but Tre left him. SMH...

That was Zion's man. Winston set a down screen on Zion and he was a hair late on the close out. I thought for sure Zion was getting to that one and blocking it.

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
03-31-2019, 07:17 PM
Turnovers. Ouch.

simplyluvin
03-31-2019, 07:17 PM
It just depends on which players we land in recruiting. Not limited to high school seniors, btw -- there's an impact transfer we're after, and reclassifications are possible.



That might be true in a vacuum, but if we land some shooters, we might have a team that fits together better offensively. (This team fit together great defensively, though).

I most definitely want you to be right. If we get Mathew Hurt and Tre comes back, we will be really good, but not as good as this yearís team. This was a special year and the saddest part to me is the thought that Coach may not get another title. Hate that Roy has more since he came over.

And when was the last time we had an impact transfer? Roshown McLeod?

FerryFor50
03-31-2019, 07:18 PM
That was Zion's man. Winston set a down screen on Zion and he was a hair late on the close out. I thought for sure Zion was getting to that one and blocking it.

Goins had a LOT of time to set up for that shot. The one defensive lapse in the final few minutes.

HereBeforeCoachK
03-31-2019, 07:19 PM
That was Zion's man. Winston set a down screen on Zion and he was a hair late on the close out. I thought for sure Zion was getting to that one and blocking it.

It might've been Zion's man, but Tre was there on the switch and then left the area right as Goins was getting the ball. I think Tre should've stayed with the shooter and let Zion follow Winston inside.

FerryFor50
03-31-2019, 07:19 PM
I most definitely want you to be right. If we get Mathew Hurt and Tre comes back, we will be really good, but not as good as this yearís team. This was a special year and the saddest part to me is the thought that Coach may not get another title. Hate that Roy has more since he came over.

And when was the last time we had an impact transfer? Roshown McLeod?

Seth Curry? Dahntay Jones?

Saratoga2
03-31-2019, 07:20 PM
Devastating.

Too many turnovers, missed FT's and mental mistakes.

And to not even get Zion the ball at the end of the game is inexcusable.

Zion was a liability from the foul line and he would have been fouled if he did get inside. I loved all the kids and it would have been nice to hit one. maybe you roll the dice and let Cam or Tre shoot a 3.

Acymetric
03-31-2019, 07:20 PM
Seth Curry? Dahntay Jones?

Rodney Hood as well.

simplyluvin
03-31-2019, 07:21 PM
Seth Curry? Dahntay Jones?

On a FF or title team?

WHOneedsSOX
03-31-2019, 07:21 PM
It might've been Zion's man, but Tre was there on the switch and then left the area right as Goins was getting the ball. I think Tre should've stayed with the shooter and let Zion follow Winston inside.

Ehh I guess so but I don't think either guy actually though Goins was going to shoot that. Probably thought Winston was going to curl back outside for a pick and roll. And Tre wanted to make sure he stayed attached to Winston.

nmduke2001
03-31-2019, 07:23 PM
It might've been Zion's man, but Tre was there on the switch and then left the area right as Goins was getting the ball. I think Tre should've stayed with the shooter and let Zion follow Winston inside.

With 4 fouls to give with under 2 minutes to play, no one should have been able to get open. Just hold them. If you get called for the foul, it doesnít matter, but you canít give up an open shot when you have fouls to give.

FerryFor50
03-31-2019, 07:25 PM
On a FF or title team?

McCleod was neither on a final four nor championship team.

Duke76
03-31-2019, 07:27 PM
This team lacked the senior leadership that has been a hallmark of Duke teams. This team overachieved in many ways. Zion is a once in a generation talent. RJ was excellent all year but the other guys were just solid and at times inconsistent- like most Freshman. Duke may never have two Freshman quite like Zion and RJ Barrett again. They will have Freshman like Tre Jones and Cam Reddish again. This team won the ACC championship - battled all year and had some highlight fast breaks. A fun team but not a great team- because not just enough time to gel. If they all stuck around- this team would be amazing next year.

Put it this way...we won't be able to surpass that talent of freshmen at Duke...end of era in my opinion

fgb
03-31-2019, 07:29 PM
Tre absolutely will not be back. Don't kid yourself. Please.

he should be. he's good, but not as good as tyus, who had to ride the phone himself for a while.

Duke76
03-31-2019, 07:31 PM
I've cherished every minute these guys have given with the Duke jersey on their backs.

Ultimately, I think there was an element of complacency that didn't jibe with their "killers kill" slogan. If killers really killed, we would have put Michigan State away today in the first half instead of letting them go on a 13-0 run to end the half. I couldn't tell you the last time this Duke team put a game away before halftime. With a margin of error that small, days like today happen.

2nd foul on Zion up 9 completely changed momentum....all because a lob pass from RJ wasn't high enough...probably our 1st turnover of 6 or so trying to get it in to him...we could have blown them out without that foul as he would have stayed in and we in all probability had a big lead at half

bludevil_33
03-31-2019, 07:31 PM
tyus, who had to ride the phone himself for a while.

Hello? Tyus? Can you hear me? Can you hear me now?

CoachJ10
03-31-2019, 07:33 PM
This hurts so bad. I loved this team. I loved these guys. No matter your criticism you canít say they didnít play their hearts out.

It just sucks to know we lost to a team that, while older and wiser, had vastly inferior talent. MSU turned the game into a wrestling match down low, as they often do, and got away with it. A lot of the lobs that turned into TOs would be fouls 9 out of 10 times. It also sucks knowing we certainly werenít 100%... Cam made some shots but clearly wasnít himself. It was the curse of this team all year.

And as much as FTs were our Achilles heel it just kills me that that will be RJs legacy. Yes he played hero ball, but he had to the way the game was being called. Heís more than a guy that missed that FT. I hope time and perspective will reveal that.

I loved this team more than any since 2010. They had fun and loved each other and it showed. There is some solace in the fact that they earned an ACC Championship banner... but right now, not much.

And if happened to MSU, a program that (donít forget) has actively participated in covering up sexual assault allegations against its players for decades. Thatís not my Michigan bias, itís a fact. All this stuff about Izzo as a good guy drives me insane.

This hurts. A lot. Itíll be a while to recover from this.

The quality of reffing in college basketball is probably the worst its been in a long time.

And yes, Izzo is widely disliked in the Midwest by Big 10 folk...he is one of the inventors of ďthe whine every play, all game long until refs give inĒ approach to sideline behavior.

moonpie23
03-31-2019, 07:33 PM
too many recurring flaws. MSU played an excellent game. Congrats to them....

sad to see it end :( Best of luck to all of the players on this team wherever next year takes them...

WHOneedsSOX
03-31-2019, 07:33 PM
2nd foul on Zion up 9 completely changed momentum...all because a lob pass from RJ wasn't high enough...probably our 1st turnover of 6 or so trying to get it in to him...we could have blown them out without that foul as he would have stayed in and we in all probability had a big lead at half

Zion would've absolutely hammered that dunk too if he had gotten the pass. Duke's momentum would've been at it's absolute highest.

g4orce
03-31-2019, 07:35 PM
Sadness. Joy. Anger. Hope. I've got a bunch of emotions flooding my mind right now. I choose hope.

K is still our coach. And though we may lose the greatest group of college talent ever assembled, and lose a chance @ another title, the sun will still rise tomorrow... and the Heels can still GTH!

bludevil_33
03-31-2019, 07:36 PM
The quality of reffing in college basketball is probably the worst its been in a long time.



Alternatively, the older you get, the more you think you know about officiating (but don't actually know) so that gap manifests as the idea that the quality of reffing is getting worse, when it's probably just staying the same.

Devilwin
03-31-2019, 07:40 PM
What about next year? Are Moore, Ellis and Karey going to be good enough to form the nucleus of another freshman dominated squad? They are certainly not as good as this bunch, but if we could get Matt Hurt that will help..Not much help from our returning players..

HereBeforeCoachK
03-31-2019, 07:43 PM
Ehh I guess so but I don't think either guy actually though Goins was going to shoot that. .

Goins shot more 3s all game than any other player.

FerryFor50
03-31-2019, 07:43 PM
What about next year? Are Moore, Ellis and Karey going to be good enough to form the nucleus of another freshman dominated squad? They are certainly not as good as this bunch, but if we could get Matt Hurt that will help..Not much help from our returning players..

There is no Zion or RJ next season. Will be a decent year, but nothing like this one was.

azzefkram
03-31-2019, 07:45 PM
So bummed for the team. They are such a fun bunch. Best of luck to the guys who are moving on. I wish we could have a few more years of this team. They were a blast to root for this year.

As for the MSU game, too many unforced errors.

UrinalCake
03-31-2019, 07:45 PM
2nd foul on Zion up 9 completely changed momentum...all because a lob pass from RJ wasn't high enough...

We had a couple opportunities to seize control of the game - that was one, then late in the game when we got up by three but couldnít get a stop. This season feels similar to last in that we had unstopped able inside scorers, but couldnít get them the ball enough and didnít have enough outside shooting around them to give them space to operate.

GoDuke2015
03-31-2019, 07:46 PM
We have a lot of role players coming back next year and Bolden, White and Javin will be seniors. A lot to look forward to next year.

HereBeforeCoachK
03-31-2019, 07:47 PM
We had a couple opportunities to seize control of the game - that was one, then late in the game when we got up by three but couldnít get a stop. This season feels similar to last in that we had unstopped able inside scorers, but couldnít get them the ball enough and didnít have enough outside shooting around them to give them space to operate.

Yep, several chances to get some separation.....often RJ was the one who let us down on that.

du_bb1
03-31-2019, 07:48 PM
I wish we could watch then play two more games !

This team was a joy to watch, their youthful exuberance, at times unbridled joy of the game and each other,
jaw dropping plays and way overboard media folly. It was a great ride-thank you guys !

my bad did not see appreciation thread

WHOneedsSOX
03-31-2019, 07:48 PM
Goins shot more 3s all game than any other player.

Well then clearly I don't know what I'm talking about lol

Edit: Actually, I remember he did shoot a lot but the only one he made was that leaning one. And he was 1-7 before that so I still wouldn't think he would shoot it unless he was wide open (which he was).

jipops
03-31-2019, 07:52 PM
Put it this way...we won't be able to surpass that talent of freshmen at Duke...end of era in my opinion

Collectively I think we can actually. But those are admittedly some high hopes.

RJ and Zion were two of the best to ever put on a Duke uniform, a good argument could be made that Zion could be the best. But for many many games there was a huge drop off after that. Cam had a tendency to be a no show on offense (typical of a freshman) and Tre was just not a perimeter threat as a pg. As for role players we ended the season with having only Javin as being at all functional in that capacity. Looking at it this way, this doesnít exactly look like an uber talented team to contend for a title. Itís hard to ask 2 freshmen to compensate for all the other holes to be filled. All of our other title teams had the kind of balance that just wasnít there for this team for the last half of the season, including functional experience.

dukelifer
03-31-2019, 07:54 PM
Put it this way...we won't be able to surpass that talent of freshmen at Duke...end of era in my opinion

Basketball is changing when the OAD era ends- although not sure it ever will. The OAD teams bring excitement but have not delivered championships. It takes a little more or maybe it is just luck. All 4 teams in the FF easily could have lost their last game- all 4. Duke was in a position to win and that is all you can hope for sometimes. Just the way it goes. Now if we had lost by 17- I would be more critical of effort or game plan. But a good team does not let itself get beat by 17 ;)

Durham Blue Devil
03-31-2019, 07:55 PM
This was the most entertaining season Iíve had in 11 years as a season ticket holder. RJ was phenomenal but Zion was unlike any player Iíve ever seen. He was a joy and astounding to watch. Truly must see tv. Therefore, this was also the most crushing end to a season in those 11 years. Really rough.

dukelifer
03-31-2019, 07:56 PM
Collectively I think we can actually. But those are admittedly some high hopes.

RJ and Zion were two of the best to ever put on a Duke uniform, a good argument could be made that Zion could be the best. But for many many games there was a huge drop off after that. Cam had a tendency to be a no show on offense (typical of a freshman) and Tre was just not a perimeter threat as a pg. As for role players we ended the season with having only Javin as being at all functional in that capacity. Looking at it this way, this doesnít exactly look like an uber talented team to contend for a title. Itís hard to ask 2 freshmen to compensate for all the other holes to be filled. All of our other title teams had the kind of balance that just wasnít there for this team for the last half of the season, including functional experience.
And despite the flaws- they were there all season- battling every game. That is what I will remember most about this team.

bludevil_33
03-31-2019, 07:56 PM
Put it this way...we won't be able to surpass that talent of freshmen at Duke...end of era in my opinion

We won a national championship with less talent in 2015. It was the fact that we had stronger senior leadership that put us over the top then.

This year's team had no one other than the coaching staff to look them in the eye and be a leader. To say "I've been here before, we can push through this."

It's not all about the OAD talent. Duke could be overall better next year if Tre were to come back (although I give the chances of that some where between zero and nil).

WHOneedsSOX
03-31-2019, 07:56 PM
Basketball is changing when the OAD era ends- although not sure it ever will. The OAD teams bring excitement but have not delivered championships. It takes a little more or maybe it is just luck. All 4 teams in the FF easily could have lost their last game- all 4. Duke was in a position to win and that is all you can hope for sometimes. Just the way it goes. Now if we had lost by 17- I would be more critical of effort or game plan. But a good team does not let itself get beat by 17 ;)

Yup, any of the last 3 Duke games could've gone the other way.

This was the most entertaining season Iíve had in 11 years as a season ticket holder. RJ was phenomenal but Zion was unlike any player Iíve ever seen. He was a joy and astounding to watch. Truly must see tv. Therefore, this was also the most crushing end to a season in those 11 years. Really rough.

I'm going to miss Zion's angry looking face where you know he's about to turn into the Hulk.

Saratoga2
03-31-2019, 07:58 PM
What about next year? Are Moore, Ellis and Karey going to be good enough to form the nucleus of another freshman dominated squad? They are certainly not as good as this bunch, but if we could get Matt Hurt that will help..Not much help from our returning players..

We had two of the best inside scorers and finishers in the game this season. We also were excellent defensively. What we lacked was solid outside shooting and were somewhat weak at the FT line. Neither of our bigs were dangerous scorers inside.

Tonight Zion got 24, RJ got 21 and DeLauier had a good game with a double double. They played hard throughout but the turnovers were too difficult to overcome. Maybe next year Carey will be a scoring threat inside and Moore will be an efficient outside scorer. I don't expect DeLaurier, White or Bolden to make a marked improvement next year. Perhaps O'Connell will play with more confidence next year and become a more consistent player and scorer. Ellis will probably need time to develop into a high PT guard so Goldwire may take a larger role.

I really don't expect any of our lottery picks to return and its also at least 50/50 that Tre will leave. Hard to believe our defense will be at the level we reached this year. This was a remarkable team that just made too many mistakes in the tourney and it finally caught up with us.

ncexnyc
03-31-2019, 07:59 PM
This is always the worst day of the year. The day you get bounced from the tournament and you reflect on what went wrong and the missed opportunities the team squandered.

This also gets us back to the OAD topic as another supposedly loaded team failed to make the Final Four. Yes I know I shouldn't buy into the hype, but it's really hard when everyday you hear how this kid or that kid is so awesome. Of course at the end of the day it comes down to the famous line from Highlander, "There can be only one." So expecting to win it all against the field will more than likely lead to some serious disappointment.

I said it before the start of the tournament, "We are what we are." I don't think I saw anything during the tournament to have me believe other wise. Pick a player, any player on this team and honestly ask yourself how much better was that player by the end of the season?

So over the next few days we'll have discussions about who's leaving and who isn't and why so and so should return despite having silly money thrown their way. Then we'll move onto the draft and free agency and then we'll start it all over again with a different cast of characters.

It was an interesting ride filled with some awesome highs as well as some bitter disappointments. I just want to thank the players as I firmly believe their heart's were totally invested into the season and they truly were a unique group who cared about one another.

HereBeforeCoachK
03-31-2019, 07:59 PM
This was the most entertaining season Iíve had in 11 years as a season ticket holder. RJ was phenomenal but Zion was unlike any player Iíve ever seen. He was a joy and astounding to watch. Truly must see tv. Therefore, this was also the most crushing end to a season in those 11 years. Really rough.

Agree with all of this. The shame is this team never really got fully together after the bizarre loss of Cam in warm ups and Tre in the first 4 minutes of the Cuse game.....after that, it was just one set back after another. Nothing crushing or season ending for any player, but enough to keep the team from jelling like they appeared to be on the way to doing.

UNCfan
03-31-2019, 08:01 PM
Similar to your 2015, your freshman had a clutch factor that made them scary good. Zion is a once in a lifetime athlete. He exceeded my expectations in college. The NBA will obviously be tougher for him, but nothing would surprise me.

bludevil_33
03-31-2019, 08:02 PM
Not sure we'll ever see a team that peaked its first game, I'll give you that.

Hancock 4 Duke
03-31-2019, 08:02 PM
At some point, I'm going to go back to every game we won/lost by 5 or less and see how many times we actually went to Zion in the last two minutes. Does that make me a masochist?

CoachJ10
03-31-2019, 08:03 PM
Basketball is changing when the OAD era ends- although not sure it ever will. The OAD teams bring excitement but have not delivered championships. It takes a little more or maybe it is just luck. All 4 teams in the FF easily could have lost their last game- all 4. Duke was in a position to win and that is all you can hope for sometimes. Just the way it goes. Now if we had lost by 17- I would be more critical of effort or game plan. But a good team does not let itself get beat by 17 ;)

The nature of the OAD era has evolved for Duke...think about Luke and Frank leaving early...think about Gary leaving early...these are not sure fire lottery guys...these are guys that you expect to play multiple seasons (and yes, Luke played 2). How much would they have helped their successive teams? The Duke brand has its pros ... and its cons.

BullBlue
03-31-2019, 08:05 PM
Welp, basketball season is over for me. Won't be watching any more games this year. Loved watching this team this year, so much fun.

WHOneedsSOX
03-31-2019, 08:06 PM
The nature of the OAD era has evolved for Duke...think about Luke and Frank leaving early...think about Gary leaving early...these are not sure fire lottery guys...these are guys that you expect to play multiple seasons (and yes, Luke played 2). How much would they have helped their successive teams? The Duke brand has its pros ... and its cons.

Obviously not possible but can you imagine if this year's team had Grayson on it? They would've been unstoppable.

dukelifer
03-31-2019, 08:07 PM
We had two of the best inside scorers and finishers in the game this season. We also were excellent defensively. What we lacked was solid outside shooting and were somewhat weak at the FT line. Neither of our bigs were dangerous scorers inside.

Tonight Zion got 24, RJ got 21 and DeLauier had a good game with a double double. They played hard throughout but the turnovers were too difficult to overcome. Maybe next year Carey will be a scoring threat inside and Moore will be an efficient outside scorer. I don't expect DeLaurier, White or Bolden to make a marked improvement next year. Perhaps O'Connell will play with more confidence next year and become a more consistent player and scorer. Ellis will probably need time to develop into a high PT guard so Goldwire may take a larger role.

I really don't expect any of our lottery picks to return and its also at least 50/50 that Tre will leave. Hard to believe our defense will be at the level we reached this year. This was a remarkable team that just made too many mistakes in the tourney and it finally caught up with us.

Next year will be a rebuilding year. Too many folks leaving and the incoming Freshman will not be as elite- just solid. I am not sure one can say that the other guys on the team have maxed out their talents - they can certainly grow. Baker may turn out to be a player. Next years squad will need to play as a team to win. Should be interesting to watch them develop.

HereBeforeCoachK
03-31-2019, 08:08 PM
Obviously not possible but can you imagine if this year's team had Grayson on it? They would've been unstoppable.

Or Gary Trent

kshepinthehouse
03-31-2019, 08:09 PM
Agree with all of this. The shame is this team never really got fully together after the bizarre loss of Cam in warm ups and Tre in the first 4 minutes of the Cuse game....after that, it was just one set back after another. Nothing crushing or season ending for any player, but enough to keep the team from jelling like they appeared to be on the way to doing.

Oddly enough, it seems like Tre didnít seem to get as many steals over the course of the season after that. In that game I think he had like 4 steals already in the first five mins, seems like that shoulder injury took a little out of him and the team.

CoachJ10
03-31-2019, 08:09 PM
Obviously not possible but can you imagine if this year's team had Grayson on it? They would've been unstoppable.

I certainly can imagine Gary raining 3 after 3. Cíest la vie.

Sluggo
03-31-2019, 08:09 PM
Saddest part is that had we managed to win this one, I really think we would have won the whole thing.

Yep, I was thinking the same thing. Michigan St was #6 overall and we were #1 and yet we're in the same quarter of the bracket. Credit to Michigan St for winning though.

On that last play I sure would have liked to see a "real" play drawn up....maybe use RJ or Zion as a decoy and get someone an open look, maybe a 10 footer for Cam or Tre. I wouldn't be surprised if Mich St had orders to foul Zion or RJ before allowing them to score on a drive given their struggles at the free throw line.

Lastly, did anyone else notice Tre questioning things when the refs moved him from next to the basket to closer to the side line on that last inbound play? Made me wonder if they had a specific play drawn up that didn't work as well from the changed position.

Sure enjoyed watching these guys this year. There will NEVER be another Zion!!

dukelifer
03-31-2019, 08:10 PM
Not sure we'll ever see a team that peaked its first game, I'll give you that.

A bit unfair. This team won over 30 games and was not healthy all year- won the ACC tourney and got the overall number 1 seed. For a team that supposedly peaked game one- that is a pretty remarkable accomplishment.

Ian
03-31-2019, 08:10 PM
The nature of the OAD era has evolved for Duke...think about Luke and Frank leaving early...think about Gary leaving early...these are not sure fire lottery guys...these are guys that you expect to play multiple seasons (and yes, Luke played 2). How much would they have helped their successive teams? The Duke brand has its pros ... and its cons.

That's the problem with branding yourself a OAD program. It's not just that you get sure fire OADs like Zion, it's that you attract players with the OAD mentality even if they aren't true OAD talent. And players who are similar talent who don't have the OAD attitude thinks your program isn't the place for them. So you it's not just the Bagley, Carter, Tatum, Zion that comes here, other players like Trent, Jackson, Duval also come and the turnover is so great every year you can't really do any team building.

Hancock 4 Duke
03-31-2019, 08:10 PM
I feel very privileged to be able to say this, considering Duke's recruiting is the top of the top tier, but thinking of what a lineup of Goldwire/O'connell/White/Kennard/Bolden would do in the tournament with 2-4 years of experience each, without ever having one and dones in the mix, is a dream.

Of course, I love the Zions, the Tres, sometimes the RJ's, and we're extremely lucky to get to watch guys like that come through our program and move onto the NBA. But I do miss the Singlers, the Scheyers, that you watch get better for 4 years and earn their spot in the lineup of a team that will eventually become a national championship team.

GGLC
03-31-2019, 08:12 PM
A bit unfair. This team won over 30 games and was not healthy all year- won the ACC tourney and got the overall number 1 seed. For a team that supposedly peaked game one- that is a pretty remarkable accomplishment.

Not unfair at all.

CDu
03-31-2019, 08:14 PM
Frustrating loss. The defense was fantastic for most of the game, and we held them to roughly one point per possession unadjusted. We won on the glass too. But our offense was simply not good enough. Too many turnovers - especially against a team that absolutely doesnít force turnovers. We win this game if we have 3-4 fewer turnovers.

Obviously Barrett wasnít the guy we wanted taking the last three shots of our season, but honestly I donít blame him for that. He passed it to Zion on at least two of those possessions (if not all three), and Zion just blinked. First time in a long time that he didnít seize the moment. Apparently he IS human. Too bad, because he was otherwise his usual awesome self out there, with the exception of one other mistake: The ill-advised reach-in foul for his second. We were punishing MSU, up 9. He went to the bench and we cratered, giving the lead back at halftime. If he doesnít commit that foul, we might have finished the half stronger and gone into the second half with a lead instead of clawing back. Again, these are minor nitpicks for the guy who carried us all game and all season. But we tried to get him an opportunity at the end, and he just didnít take it.

Unfortunately, we just didnít quite have it today, and beat ourselves. Yes, MSU hit some big shots, but it was our mistakes that stood out. Would have liked to see Coach K pull out some coaching magic, but it just wasnít to be.

Frustrating end to what was a very fun season.

ACCfaninVirginia
03-31-2019, 08:17 PM
That is pretty silly. Cam is being drafted in the first round- no question about that.

versus a mid-late 20 pick if he goes in 1st round this year. He should at least use the "test the waters" option and see where teams bite.

dukelifer
03-31-2019, 08:21 PM
Not unfair at all.

Because Duke had two excellent Freshman and no returning starters- you honestly expected this team to go undefeated? When has that ever happened? They lost by one point to a team to an experienced team. This Duke team has struggled all year to get in a groove. I am disappointed with the loss but this is how it goes in the tourney. Duke was not embarrassed out there.

Saratoga2
03-31-2019, 08:21 PM
Next year will be a rebuilding year. Too many folks leaving and the incoming Freshman will not be as elite- just solid. I am not sure one can say that the other guys on the team have maxed out their talents - they can certainly grow. Baker may turn out to be a player. Next years squad will need to play as a team to win. Should be interesting to watch them develop.

Yes, I missed commenting on Baker and that was just an inadvertent slip. The kid has good potential and should get a lot more PT next year. I would like to see us more balanced next year but there aren't many balanced teams out there. Usually a couple of stars dominate the play.

bludevil_33
03-31-2019, 08:22 PM
A bit unfair. This team won over 30 games and was not healthy all year- won the ACC tourney and got the overall number 1 seed. For a team that supposedly peaked game one- that is a pretty remarkable accomplishment.

Name a game where we looked more dominant against an eventual Elite 8 team.

proelitedota
03-31-2019, 08:23 PM
Name a game where we looked more dominant against an eventual Elite 8 team.


Road game against UVA.

BigZ
03-31-2019, 08:26 PM
I hate to say this but K deserves a lot of blame. This team should be dominating teams

dukelifer
03-31-2019, 08:26 PM
Name a game where we looked more dominant against an eventual Elite 8 team.

Beat UVa by 10 on the road. That is pretty dominant given they may likely win the whole thing. Crushed Texas Tech 41-29 in the second half. I would say that is pretty good. Name a final 8 team that dominated Duke.

bludevil_33
03-31-2019, 08:28 PM
One thing I noticed as the season started to progress was how in his own head Zion got as the year went on.

That little thing he did (looking down at his own hand as if it was detached from his body) after the amazing pass to Tre during the Louisville game (that he repeated during the Carolina ACCT game) is indicative of what I'm talking about. Zion became much more about Zion the further the season went along. He had more trouble containing his emotions (especially at the officiating - warranted or not) as the season went along, and it seemed from this armchair observer's seat that this began to alienate him just a bit from everyone other than RJ.

But especially from Cam.

I also wouldn't be shocked to find out that very serious chemistry issues developed between the duo of RJ/Zion and Cam over the course of the season. Who wants to be the third wheel in anything, and yet there was Cam, always playing third fiddle to the two others. Could this have been one of the things that made Cam disappear over the last third of the season? We'll probably never know, but watching a lot of the body language over the course of the season, it seems plausible.

This team seemed much more together and gelled at the beginning of the conference season than it ever did in the NCAA Tournament.

dukelifer
03-31-2019, 08:28 PM
I hate to say this but K deserves a lot of blame. This team should be dominating teams

On paper yes. Maybe one is imagining the future with all these guys. Freshman make Freshman mistakes. Experience matters.

bludevil_33
03-31-2019, 08:29 PM
Beat UVa by 10 on the road. That is pretty dominant given they may likely win the whole thing. Crushed Texas Tech 41-29 in the second half. I would say that is pretty good. Name a final 8 team that dominated Duke.

Pretty dominant? Sure. Those were great performances.

As good as the UK masterpiece? Nope. Thorough dismantling from tip to buzzer the likes of which I haven't seen since the 1999 team.

Duke79UNLV77
03-31-2019, 08:31 PM
Frustrating loss. The defense was fantastic for most of the game, and we held them to roughly one point per possession unadjusted. We won on the glass too. But our offense was simply not good enough. Too many turnovers - especially against a team that absolutely doesnít force turnovers. We win this game if we have 3-4 fewer turnovers.

Obviously Barrett wasnít the guy we wanted taking the last three shots of our season, but honestly I donít blame him for that. He passed it to Zion on at least two of those possessions (if not all three), and Zion just blinked. First time in a long time that he didnít seize the moment. Apparently he IS human. Too bad, because he was otherwise his usual awesome self out there, with the exception of one other mistake: The ill-advised reach-in foul for his second. We were punishing MSU, up 9. He went to the bench and we cratered, giving the lead back at halftime. If he doesnít commit that foul, we might have finished the half stronger and gone into the second half with a lead instead of clawing back. Again, these are minor nitpicks for the guy who carried us all game and all season. But we tried to get him an opportunity at the end, and he just didnít take it.

Unfortunately, we just didnít quite have it today, and beat ourselves. Yes, MSU hit some big shots, but it was our mistakes that stood out. Would have liked to see Coach K pull out some coaching magic, but it just wasnít to be.

Frustrating end to what was a very fun season.

I thought that was true on the play when we were up 1 and RJ drove. Zion had the ball with some momentum on the dribble, and then surprisingly passed it. Perhaps too unselfish. I thought we could have done more to feed Zion on the other late possessions. We ran him far away from the ball, I guess as a decoy, on the play where RJ got fouled. Great group and fun, exciting year, but I sure wanted college LeBron attacking the basket at the end. Every time. As Grant Hill said a bit earlier in the game, I donít care where, just get him the ball!

CDu
03-31-2019, 08:31 PM
I feel very privileged to be able to say this, considering Duke's recruiting is the top of the top tier, but thinking of what a lineup of Goldwire/O'connell/White/Kennard/Bolden would do in the tournament with 2-4 years of experience each, without ever having one and dones in the mix, is a dream.

Of course, I love the Zions, the Tres, sometimes the RJ's, and we're extremely lucky to get to watch guys like that come through our program and move onto the NBA. But I do miss the Singlers, the Scheyers, that you watch get better for 4 years and earn their spot in the lineup of a team that will eventually become a national championship team.

You say that NOW, but do you remember what people were saying as of April 2009? Heck, even as late as Early January 2010. That group winning a title changed what would otherwise have been a brutal narrative.

The all-in one-and-done era has treated us pretty well. We won a title, made two elite-8s (with each being a whisker from Final Four), and had two other brutal injury years in between.

UrinalCake
03-31-2019, 08:32 PM
Not sure we'll ever see a team that peaked its first game, I'll give you that.

I mean we kind of did the exact same thing last season. Not the very first game, but in the Champions Classic (probably the 3rd or 4th game of the season) we beat MSU of all teams, who was #2, with Bagley missing most of the game after getting poked in the eye. Grayson scored 30+ points, Duval had 10 assists, Goldwire even hit a three. That was arguably our best game of the season. And the previous season we lost by 1 to Kansas with Tatum, Giles, and Bolden all sitting out with injuries. Starting off hot in November is a staple of Coach K teams. I donít know who we play in the Champions Classic next season, but I hope to hell that we lose so I donít get my hopes up again while the media crowns us as unbeatable.

For those who feel like we would have won it all had we advanced, Iím more skeptical. Texas Tech would have been another dogfight. We did beat them earlier in the season but they were winning big for most of the game before we went on a late run. They are playing way better now than they were then, and Iím not sure Iíd say the same about us. And then Auburn or UVA would be a coin flip game at best. Again we did beat both teams this season but both would present unique challenges and both can opt lights out from three.

bludevil_33
03-31-2019, 08:33 PM
On paper yes. Maybe one is imagining the future with all these guys. Freshman make Freshman mistakes. Experience matters.

This times 1000.

You can't imagine the type of off-the-court stuff freshmen have to adjust to that play a role in on-the-court mental performance. You can never predict how they will all adjust to college life, college speed, college competition. All of these guys as sophomores? Sure I would expect much more. But freshman...man, they're a crapshoot.

KandG
03-31-2019, 08:37 PM
Frustrating loss. The defense was fantastic for most of the game, and we held them to roughly one point per possession unadjusted. We won on the glass too. But our offense was simply not good enough. Too many turnovers - especially against a team that absolutely doesnít force turnovers. We win this game if we have 3-4 fewer turnovers.


Frustrating end to what was a very fun season.

17 turnovers leading to 24 MSU points. That's just crazy. So many years we are missing a piece or two on defense, this year we had near ideal personnel and gave MSU fits most of the game defending them, but it was undone tonight by so much carelessness on offense.

Also, K noted that twice out of timeouts in the second half, the lack of composure was telling and specifically one time, the team didn't run what was diagrammed in the timeout. (once RJ threw a bad lob to Zion, the other time was a flubbed pass to Javin rolling on the pick and roll). Those small details, along with some of the luck MSU had that I noted in an earlier post (the first Goins three and the McQuaid H-O-R-S-E layup), were just fatal.

On a side note, K is usually pretty eloquent in the postgame pressers even after season-ending losses. But he seemed a bit flat today. He understood why the team lost, but I wonder if a part of him was shocked at such a special team's inability to pull one more close game out of the fire. (he did note that there were very few Duke teams that were as connected as this one was)

BigZ
03-31-2019, 08:37 PM
This years team didnít have the ability to put the nail in the coffin. Anytime against a quality team they took a four or five point lead it would go back to one or two. In years past it would go from five to fifteen

dukelifer
03-31-2019, 08:38 PM
Pretty dominant? Sure. Those were great performances.

As good as the UK masterpiece? Nope. Thorough dismantling from tip to buzzer the likes of which I haven't seen since the 1999 team.

Come on- the KY game was an anomaly. Duke played great and KY broke down. If one expected Duke to play like that all season- then one has not watched enough basketball. Louisville dismantled number 1 seed and regular season ACC champion UNC at UNC. They never duplicated that result- except they almost dismantled ACC Tourney Champion and overall number 1 seed Duke- until they fell apart.

Dukehk
03-31-2019, 08:38 PM
On paper yes. Maybe one is imagining the future with all these guys. Freshman make Freshman mistakes. Experience matters.

2015 had Quinn Cook and Amile Jefferson. That was the difference IMO.

This year we didn't really have any upperclassmen leaders. I thought Jack started off brightly but then he just completely lost his mind after the syracuse game.

Bolden and Javin aren't really vocal leaders by personality.

I've enjoyed the ride and who knows, maybe the basketball gods will give us one next year after this heartbreaker.

Feel for the Freshmen. Jones was visibly distraught after that one. He wanted to go to Minnesota so bad. I have a feeling he will come back.

kAzE
03-31-2019, 08:38 PM
Every year when this happens, it's the worst day of the year. This one hurts bad. :(

bludevil_33
03-31-2019, 08:38 PM
This years team didnít have the ability to put the nail in the coffin. Anytime against a quality team they took a four or five point lead it would go back to one or two. In years past it would go from five to fifteen

So you're saying killers didn't kill?

bludevil_33
03-31-2019, 08:40 PM
Come on- the KY game was an anomaly. Duke played great and KY broke down. If one expected Duke to play like that all season- then one has not watched enough basketball. Louisville dismantled number 1 seed and regular season ACC champion UNC at UNC. They never duplicated that result- except they almost dismantled ACC Tourney Champion and overall number 1 seed Duke- until they fell apart.


None of what you said negates the fact that the KY game was by far the best performance for this team this year, and it was the first game of the season, thus this team peaked its first game.

In fact, I think it's fair to say this team didn't play up to its potential past the beginning of February. After the UVa game in Charlottesville, it was a complete slog for one reason or another. So would it make you feel better to say they peaked in early February?

Reddevil
03-31-2019, 08:44 PM
Last year I felt angry after the loss to Kansas. This year just sad that it is over. This team was a joy to watch and get to know. It seems to me they were about to round into a great team just as Jones got injured. Then the rash of injuries started that knocked them back and they never quite put it all together again. Such a joy to watch and a great bunch of guys. I am not sure how I will remember this team. Maybe just fun.

weezie
03-31-2019, 08:45 PM
Yes, well.
I was lucky to see their first games in Toronto and marvel at what was coming to Cameron. There were some heart pounding moments of sheer joy and some heart stoppers when the major injuries occurred.

This loss tonight was a grinding mix of mistakes all over the court and maybe the mentality of a team that looked like it was waiting for the cavalry to sweep in and save them.

They just looked out of sync all night.

I hate to hear the couch coaching here about RJ. He's a wonderful, bright, young (YOUNG) man. He gave it his all.

They would all stay if they could but those days are over. No one can say they didn't love playing for Duke and playing with each other on this team.

CDu
03-31-2019, 08:46 PM
17 turnovers leading to 24 MSU points. That's just crazy. So many years we are missing a piece or two on defense, this year we had near ideal personnel and gave MSU fits most of the game defending them, but it was undone tonight by so much carelessness on offense.

Also, K noted that twice out of timeouts in the second half, the lack of composure was telling and specifically one time, the team didn't run what was diagrammed in the timeout. (once RJ threw a bad lob to Zion, the other time was a flubbed pass to Javin rolling on the pick and roll). Those small details, along with some of the luck MSU had that I noted in an earlier post (the first Goins three and the McQuaid H-O-R-S-E layup), were just fatal.

On a side note, K is usually pretty eloquent in the postgame pressers even after season-ending losses. But he seemed a bit flat today. He understood why the team lost, but I wonder if a part of him was shocked at such a special team's inability to pull one more close game out of the fire. (he did note that there were very few Duke teams that were as connected as this one was)

Yep. 7 turnovers by Barrett, 5 by Zion. We just had too many stretches in which we lost our poise/focus. We also failed to get creative in getting Zion the ball until VERY late. And then, at the end, we DO get him the ball, and he passes off too easily. He needed to force the issue there like he did against UCF.

KandG
03-31-2019, 08:47 PM
Come on- the KY game was an anomaly. Duke played great and KY broke down. If one expected Duke to play like that all season- then one has not watched enough basketball.


So many predictably bad takes (understandably so given a season-ending loss), but the "peaked vs Kentucky" one is really terrible. Kentucky in the opener was a shell of the team they became later in the season. Of course we looked great, and the media got a lot of mileage out of it, but it ended as a glorified scrimmage as Kentucky quickly fell apart.

That's not to say the this Duke team didn't fray a little as the season went along, but the injuries and resulting disruptions to continuity contributed a lot to that. We still beat a lot of good teams along the way with one of the most brutal schedules in basketball.

CoachJ10
03-31-2019, 08:51 PM
Yep. 7 turnovers by Barrett, 5 by Zion. We just had too many stretches in which we lost our poise/focus. We also failed to get creative in getting Zion the ball until VERY late. And then, at the end, we DO get him the ball, and he passes off too easily. He needed to force the issue there like he did against UCF.

In all fairness, I think everyone (Coaching staff included) couldnít believe the mauling that Zion was getting in the post...and we all thought the refs at some point were going to call those fouls. It was terrible officiating to let that mauling persist...and it certainly created many unforced turnovers as a result.

bludevil_33
03-31-2019, 08:51 PM
So many predictably bad takes (understandably so given a season-ending loss), but the "peaked vs Kentucky" one is really terrible. Kentucky in the opener was a shell of the team they became later in the season. Of course we looked great, and the media got a lot of mileage out of it, but it ended as a glorified scrimmage as Kentucky quickly fell apart.

That's not to say the this Duke team didn't fray a little as the season went along, but the injuries and resulting disruptions to continuity contributed a lot to that. We still beat a lot of good teams along the way with one of the most brutal schedules in basketball.


Again, would it make you feel better to say the team peaked in Charlottesville? I'm willing to concede the Kentucky point.

Personally, I'm so tired of people leaning on the injury crutch. All teams have injuries. It's part of the game. PJ Washington was out for the first two rounds. Auburn lost one of their leading scorers to an ACL tear in the Sweet 16. They're going to the Final Four. You factor injuries in. You have to.

We peaked much earlier than a team this talented should have. I think there were undisclosed chemistry issues (not that they should be disclosed) that contributed to the team's schizophrenic play over the last third of the season.

duke09hms
03-31-2019, 08:53 PM
Next year will be a rebuilding year. Too many folks leaving and the incoming Freshman will not be as elite- just solid. I am not sure one can say that the other guys on the team have maxed out their talents - they can certainly grow. Baker may turn out to be a player. Next years squad will need to play as a team to win. Should be interesting to watch them develop.

Maybe with less transcendent talents next year, K might feel the need to coach or draw up plays again. Too many times, it seemed like he thought he was in charge of Team USA and just rolled the ball out there. This year has to be one of his worst coaching jobs in a while.

dukelifer
03-31-2019, 08:55 PM
So many predictably bad takes (understandably so given a season-ending loss), but the "peaked vs Kentucky" one is really terrible. Kentucky in the opener was a shell of the team they became later in the season. Of course we looked great, and the media got a lot of mileage out of it, but it ended as a glorified scrimmage as Kentucky quickly fell apart.

That's not to say the this Duke team didn't fray a little as the season went along, but the injuries and resulting disruptions to continuity contributed a lot to that. We still beat a lot of good teams along the way with one of the most brutal schedules in basketball.

5 of the final 8 teams were on Duke's schedule- Duke beat 4. Duke has beaten every other team in the FF other than MSU. They beat UNC and UVa twice (two other number 1 seeds). Duke was an excellent team all year- just made too many mistakes today.

WakeDevil
03-31-2019, 08:56 PM
This was K's last chance at another title.

WHOneedsSOX
03-31-2019, 08:56 PM
Yes, well.
I was lucky to see their first games in Toronto and marvel at what was coming to Cameron. There were some heart pounding moments of sheer joy and some heart stoppers when the major injuries occurred.

This loss tonight was a grinding mix of mistakes all over the court and maybe the mentality of a team that looked like it was waiting for the cavalry to sweep in and save them.

They just looked out of sync all night.

I hate to hear the couch coaching here about RJ. He's a wonderful, bright, young (YOUNG) man. He gave it his all.

They would all stay if they could but those days are over. No one can say they didn't love playing for Duke and playing with each other on this team.

Coach K mentioned that in his press conference. Said the first half all he did during timeouts was try to get them to relax and play their game. He said he didn't really go into X's and O's cause they weren't playing well.

moonpie23
03-31-2019, 08:59 PM
I hate to say this but K deserves a lot of blame. This team should be dominating teams

sorry, this is pure, utter crap....


managing "talent" is extremely difficult. If the team wins, GREAT TEAM, if the team loses, "poor coach - look at all the talent".

the dynamics of directing talent, especially ELITE talent is like herding cats. You've got arguably the greatest college BB coach of all time and you want to blame him for missed free throws and sloppy play...

I'm absolutely positive that K and the staff worked their butts off coaching free throws and anti-sloppy play.


I'm not saying that K is above reproach, but laying this team's inability to close escrow on his is BS...