Cameron Attendance

[B-well]

Last night was one of those nights when Duke could have scored a lot of points by making empty standing room and empty seats available to local people who can pop in at the last moment and enjoy the mystique of Cameron.

There has to be a way that this can happen - I know that there are hundreds of Barton College supporters who woul love to see their Defending National Champions have a go at Duke - and to get a taste of playing in front of the Crazies.

Too bad they changed their name - it would make the Crazies (and a lot of other folks) wonder why some guy in the balcony kept chanting ACC during an exhibition game.

[jagger]

What was particularly irritating to me was to see scalpers posting tickets for that game online at 3x face value.

[DukeCO2009]

In the past, season-ticket holders have received tickets to preseason games as part of season package; this year, they had to buy them seperately. This apparently caused quite a bit of confusion, and a lot of people didn't buy their seats. Duke dropped the ball on this one.

[heyman25]

From the pix Cameron was nearly empty. If it had been in Lexington 30000 would have shown up. The Duke fanbase is not as supportive as it should be. The Duke women's games also have a paltry attendance.

[throatybeard]

The good news is now we have a thread to dump twice-weekly complaints about attendance into.

[Cameron]

I'm sorry but I'd have to agree with heyman on this one. In a year like last season, when we weren't up to par with our usual greatness, Cameron was disturbingly empty some games, epsecially the student section some contests. Duke fans are too spoiled, IMO.

Sorry if that rubs anyone the wrong way, but that's what I see. Hopefully that's not the case this year.

[weezie]

We can't always get down to Durham until after the first of the year. I donated our early tickets to a Durham Big Brother type organization. I hope someone used them...now I feel guilty :( .

[Cameron]

^^You definitely shouldn't feel guilty for that. That's wonderful, weezie. I was more or less just speaking on what Coach K said last season, that some of Duke's students (not all, of course) needed step it up, after he noticed a lack of support during the rough year that was.

[wisteria]

I walked in for this game. Only waited for like 10 minutes and got into the gym 30 minutes before the game started. And I was in the front of the graduate student section. About 10 minutes or so into the game, the gym began to be filled. But still at least 20% empty.
I know that in my department, many staff would love to walk in for a game or two. But only students could do that, right? They were always very disappointed.

[homebre]

Maybe Duke should price the tickets more reasonably. I wouldn't pay even $20/ticket to see a meaningless game. The tickets are overpriced for games against weak teams let alone exhibition games. I would pay $40/ticket for a top notch ACC game but not one against Mercer, NC Central, Our Ladies of Hope, or other fodder. I have been a Duke student and fan since the late '60s, but will not take my family of 4 to a Duke game at the prices they charge (and that is not including parking, food, etc.). That is why I take them to the woman's games.
Andy from Hillsborough

[DukeCO2009]

I'm sorry but I'd have to agree with heyman on this one. In a year like last season, when we weren't up to par with our usual greatness, Cameron was disturbingly empty some games, epsecially the student section some contests. Duke fans are too spoiled, IMO.

Sorry if that rubs anyone the wrong way, but that's what I see. Hopefully that's not the case this year.

Read my post--Duke was at fault here, at least in terms of the weak non-student attendence. I attribute the low student turnout to the ridiculous new line policy. I personally know at least 6 or 7 people who validated but didn't show. When people check the website and see that all the spots are taken, there really isn't any incentive to go wait on stand-by outside Cameron. What a stupid idea.

[Raleighfan]

I pose this question in all innocence: could it be that at 6:30 on a week night that some students (who might otherwise be at the game) are still in class/a lab? I have no idea how late classes go on at Duke now; I'm from the dark ages.

[Wander]

Read my post--Duke was at fault here, at least in terms of the weak non-student attendence. I attribute the low student turnout to the ridiculous new line policy. I personally know at least 6 or 7 people who validated but didn't show. When people check the website and see that all the spots are taken, there really isn't any incentive to go wait on stand-by outside Cameron. What a stupid idea.

I also know a few people who just forgot about validation entirely, and then figured that it wouldn't be worth it to go when they hadn't validated.

[Channing]

I have a question about ticket scalping. I assume Duke frowns on this, and there is something in the season ticket agreement that prohibits it.

How do scalpers get their hands on the tickets? I was under the impression the only way to get tickets to a duke game was from a season ticket holder, and that they werent available for individual purpose.

When tickets go up on E-Bay or some other ticket site at 3 or 4 or 10 times face value why does the Duke athletic department not identify from where the tickets came and make an example?

Improper use of a Master's badge can lead to having them reclaimed -whether the owner misused it or someone an owner gave it to used it. IMO a game in Cameron is almost as hard to get a ticket to as the masters . . .

[-jk]

I have a question about ticket scalping. I assume Duke frowns on this, and there is something in the season ticket agreement that prohibits it.

How do scalpers get their hands on the tickets? I was under the impression the only way to get tickets to a duke game was from a season ticket holder, and that they werent available for individual purpose.

When tickets go up on E-Bay or some other ticket site at 3 or 4 or 10 times face value why does the Duke athletic department not identify from where the tickets came and make an example?

Improper use of a Master's badge can lead to having them reclaimed -whether the owner misused it or someone an owner gave it to used it. IMO a game in Cameron is almost as hard to get a ticket to as the masters . . .

The scalpers work Cameron right under the noses of the Duke police, and have been for years. I can only surmise the University turns a mostly blind eye to it, so long as the transactions themselves are discreet. Frankly, you can scalp yourself in for a season for less than it takes to get season tickets.

-jk

[merry]

In the past, season-ticket holders have received tickets to preseason games as part of season package; this year, they had to buy them seperately. This apparently caused quite a bit of confusion, and a lot of people didn't buy their seats. Duke dropped the ball on this one.

What? The tickets were mailed separately but I know I for one didn't order/buy them separately. I'm not even sure I had the choice.

I think it's a little early in the season to be complaining about the crowd. It was a 6:30 game on a weeknight against a team that we rather predictably beat by a whole lot of points. I saw a lot of people leaving at halftime, some to go to the soccer game I think.

[DBFAN]

I am huge fan of Duke basketball, I have been since I was around 8 or 9. I probably have only missed 1 or 2 televised games in that span, I am now 28. Unfortunately I have never been able to get into Cameron. I finally now have a friend who holds season tickets, I might be able to pull of a game this year. But I was wondering how much does the cheapest ticket start at for an exhibition game, and can you actually go to Cameron on the Day of the game to purchase one, if so I will be driving to Durham tomorrow, of course I am sure there is no way to do this, but I was just curious. At this point in my life I could care less who they are playing, I just want to get in there one time.

Go Duke

[-jk]

There is a ticket exchange board on DBR; you can post requests there.

Also, there is a healthy, supply-and-demand driven market for tickets outside Cameron. For an early season game, there are usually lots of tickets for face or below.

-jk

[LetItBD08]

The Obama speech at NCCU at the same time took a toll on the undergrad attendance. I know a lot of my friends who would normally be in Cameron were there. I wonder how much that affected upstairs attendance. And yes, the start time (6:30 on a Thursday) kind of conflicted with some classes (Don't you hate it when education gets in the way?). I think by the time the game started most students who wanted to go were in Cameron and filled it up considerably, but the pregame student turnout was scarily low. Personally, I had to run over from a lab in French Sci. that ended less than an hour before tip.

[zingit]

Read my post--Duke was at fault here, at least in terms of the weak non-student attendence. I attribute the low student turnout to the ridiculous new line policy. I personally know at least 6 or 7 people who validated but didn't show. When people check the website and see that all the spots are taken, there really isn't any incentive to go wait on stand-by outside Cameron. What a stupid idea.

If that's the case, then it's the fans that are stupid, not the policy. For one thing, if they check the website, they'd see that all the spots are NOT taken; there's a "Cameron Crazie Counter" telling you how many students have swiped their DukeCards at Cameron, so a person who didn't validate can know exactly whether it's worth their time to walk over to Cameron. And secondly, I had to rush over from a class that ended at 5:40 on East, and I walked in around 6, when there was absolutely no line. You don't have to "wait on stand-by outside Cameron" for a game like this. So there's no reason why the line policy would have deterred a person from going. If people didn't show up, it's either because they didn't want to show up, or because they completely overestimated the difficulty of getting into a game, or at least a pre-season game.

[wisteria]

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/news/story?id=3100960


I think the online reservation system is a good thing. And I agree that students ARE spoiled. And the attendance decline trend is being noticed. Just, why is this report on ESPN news while it took me very long to find the Kentucky shocking loss news? Every little negative piece about Duke is worth attacking, zeze...

[hurleyfor3]

Most of our home games are on teevee, so when the student section isn't full, people notice. I certainly do. And not everyone knows how getting into Cameron works as a student... heck, *I* don't know how it's changed since I went there.

There's a limit to how long 19-year olds can sit around outside in January to see a basketball game, even at Duke. I always thought six hours before tipoff (for the WORST opponents) was a bit much, even when we were going to the Final Four every year.

[mehmattski]

There's a limit to how long 19-year olds can sit around outside in January to see a basketball game, even at Duke. I always thought six hours before tipoff (for the WORST opponents) was a bit much, even when we were going to the Final Four every year.

I agree, and as one of those 19-22 year olds who did that most recently, I can say that there was a problem. Seniors and Juniors, who have a premium on their amount of free time, due to taking more challenging classes, can't be expected to spend 30 hours a week in line for a non-Carolina basketball game. As the walk-up and wristband game policies got stricter and stricter, it benefited only a few fans while alienating many more. Meanwhile, there are underclassmen lining up 72 hours before a game just to get the best seats and be on TV. This added to the pressure for upperclassmen, who looked at their 20 page term papers and 4 hour labs and said "screw it, I'm gonna watch on TV."

I'm a graduate student now, but early gripes from some undergrads I know include confusion because the system changes every year. This is understandable, and I hope this current system works well so that the students become comfortable with it and realize they don't have to dedicate their entire lives to Duke basketball to be a Cameron Crazie. Many students probably want to go to the games, but see the rules as prohibitive.

That said, the online registration for tonight's game filled up in about 15 minutes. That bodes well, and meanwhile I'm trying to convince my grad student friends to come with me to the game...

[sandinmyshoes]

The ESPN is out to get us paranoia is gaining momentum. It might eventually outstrip the DSPN paranoia.

[Devilsfan]

in economics these days?

[SilkyJ]

That said, the online registration for tonight's game filled up in about 15 minutes. That bodes well, and meanwhile I'm trying to convince my grad student friends to come with me to the game...


exactly. the article is already out of date. with all the offense we're gonna see this year, even if we only improve by 3 games I bet we fill it up wayyyy better than last year.

[tombrady]

I agree, and as one of those 19-22 year olds who did that most recently, I can say that there was a problem. Seniors and Juniors, who have a premium on their amount of free time, due to taking more challenging classes, can't be expected to spend 30 hours a week in line for a non-Carolina basketball game. As the walk-up and wristband game policies got stricter and stricter, it benefited only a few fans while alienating many more. Meanwhile, there are underclassmen lining up 72 hours before a game just to get the best seats and be on TV. This added to the pressure for upperclassmen, who looked at their 20 page term papers and 4 hour labs and said "screw it, I'm gonna watch on TV."

I'm a graduate student now, but early gripes from some undergrads I know include confusion because the system changes every year. This is understandable, and I hope this current system works well so that the students become comfortable with it and realize they don't have to dedicate their entire lives to Duke basketball to be a Cameron Crazie. Many students probably want to go to the games, but see the rules as prohibitive.

That said, the online registration for tonight's game filled up in about 15 minutes. That bodes well, and meanwhile I'm trying to convince my grad student friends to come with me to the game...


T'06 -> Bio '13?

Yikes.

[Channing]

I was at Duke from 2000-2004. For those four years, Cameron was always packed. I had work, other upper class men had work. It was never a problem to get to the game. If you had to do work, you showed up 30 minutes before game time and sat in one of the corners instead of center court.

I dont think declining attendance at Cameron, especially last year, has anything to do with line policies. I think it has everything to do with the fact that some of the students were disappointed Duke wasnt a top 5 team, and decided they werent interested in going.

[tombrady]

I dont think declining attendance at Cameron, especially last year, has anything to do with line policies. I think it has everything to do with the fact that some of the students were disappointed Duke wasnt a top 5 team, and decided they werent interested in going.

Which is fine. Just because someone goes to Duke to get a degree from Duke a few years later doesn't mean they are somehow obligated to go to the games. If they regret it years later, tough luck for them.

I don't understand all the hand-wringing about students not going to games. Who cares -- there are other things in people's lives while at Duke besides going to the games.

Did I go to games while I was there? Certainly, probably 75% of the home games. But did I feel bad about missing the other 25%? Not at all. You can root for the team with your friends and enjoy the comraderie of winning from anywhere.

[blazindw]

I was at Duke from 2000-2004. For those four years, Cameron was always packed. I had work, other upper class men had work. It was never a problem to get to the game. If you had to do work, you showed up 30 minutes before game time and sat in one of the corners instead of center court.

I dont think declining attendance at Cameron, especially last year, has anything to do with line policies. I think it has everything to do with the fact that some of the students were disappointed Duke wasnt a top 5 team, and decided they werent interested in going.

I agree...trust me, changing line policies didn't change the amount of people that showed up to the games. I can count on one hand the number of games that weren't completely full in the 4 years I was there, including my 2 years as Line Monitor and HLM. People could show up at tipoff and get into most games, but that doesn't mean that games weren't full. It certainly helped that we won the NC my freshman year, had the team that should've won in '02, a "retooling" year in '03 that consisted of the freshman years of Shelden and JJ, and an '04 team that came within a Emeka Okafor's back of the NC game. We also had huge matchups. I think a lot of students were discouraged last year by our "bad" season, but that's just what I got from my friends that were still there.

Hopefully Cameron will be rocking tonight, and that Crazie momentum can carry into the rest of the games.

[mehmattski]

T'06 -> Bio '13?

Yikes.

Hmm? PhDs take a while... I'm following the Ed Venit "Stay at Duke until they physically throw you off campus" plan...

[phaedrus]

I was at Duke from 2000-2004. For those four years, Cameron was always packed. I had work, other upper class men had work. It was never a problem to get to the game. If you had to do work, you showed up 30 minutes before game time and sat in one of the corners instead of center court.

I dont think declining attendance at Cameron, especially last year, has anything to do with line policies. I think it has everything to do with the fact that some of the students were disappointed Duke wasnt a top 5 team, and decided they werent interested in going.

I disagree. I was at Duke in '05 and '06, when we were a top 5 team, and there were periodic attendance "problems" at the smaller games even then. It may have been worse last year, but it wasn't a new trend.

[throatybeard]

Ah good, we've already got this thread going full steam...you'd think folks would wait until we had an RS game, but no.

[Channing]

Let me clarify my statement - I have no problem if someone doesnt want to go to a game. As stated, if someone doesnt want to go - thats their business. There is no K signed upon admission to Duke where you agree to attend every game.

What I was saying is that it is not a result of a new line policy that is leaving empty seats in Cameron.

[mehmattski]

Let me clarify my statement - I have no problem if someone doesnt want to go to a game. As stated, if someone doesnt want to go - thats their business. There is no K signed upon admission to Duke where you agree to attend every game.

What I was saying is that it is not a result of a new line policy that is leaving empty seats in Cameron.

I guess I really wasn't criticizing line policies either. My view can be summed up by the immortal Yogi Berra:

"No one wants to go there anymore; it's too crowded."

Either way, attendance at the year's first game is not a good barometer, it's always gonna be high. It's attendance at mid-February ACC games or non-conference games which are the true test of overall dedication. From my years, Butler in 2004 and Valpo in 2005 come to mind.

[devildeac]

compliments to the Crazies tonite-the student section was full, even in the corners and the noise level was good with a few good cheers.

[Devilsfan]

This year. Thanks Coach!!!

[trueblue]

I realize that you all have heard a lot about Kyle on this board and he may not have lived up to expectations tonight, but don't worry. Kyle will show you in Hawaii what he is all about--trust me. I have watched Kyle play every game thus far. What strikes me the most about him is that he plays like he has been at Duke for a while. He had a rough offensive game tonight, but he still played the majority of the second half with 4 fouls and made some pretty agressive defensive plays with them. I was suprised by his play tonight, but he is human. No worries people, Kyle will be rediculous....and this team has potential. Unfortunately, I said to myself at halftime that this team has not had any of the miserable no scoring periods like last years team, and then they had one.

To all the people who saw Nolan for the first time tonight, that was his worst game yet as well. That cat can get to the rack and is not afraid to rise up and cram it. Those couple lay-ups that he missed will certainly be the exception to his rule in games to come. He is not the strongest outside shooter, but is definitely the athelete to develp one as the season progresses and he realizes he needs one more in college than he did in high school.

One more thing...come to the games people!!!!!! You CAN get in. I have sat in the same seat for 20 years, and the attendance is getting down right embarrasing. Yes, I know that it was a weeknight. Yes, I know it is early in the season. Yes, I know that we are not considered pre-season national champoinship contenders. But when the going get tough, you know the rest. With the right support this team could be lay down some shock and awe. Please come help do our part in this equation.

True

[DukeCO2009]

One more thing...come to the games people!!!!!! You CAN get in. I have sat in the same seat for 20 years, and the attendance is getting down right embarrasing. Yes, I know that it was a weeknight. Yes, I know it is early in the season. Yes, I know that we are not considered pre-season national champoinship contenders. But when the going get tough, you know the rest. With the right support this team could be lay down some shock and awe. Please come help do our part in this equation.

The upstairs attendence was pretty God-awful as well...

[shadowfax336]

The upstairs attendence was pretty God-awful as well...

That was the only attendance that was bad. The student section was filled up. It has been for both games so far and given the enthusiasm on campus right now, probably will be all year. Which is much better than last year by far.

[OZ]

That was the only attendance that was bad. The student section was filled up. It has been for both games so far and given the enthusiasm on campus right now, probably will be all year. Which is much better than last year by far.



Then who was supposed to be sitting in the empty seats in the lower section on the bench side? Also, to whom are the blue seats beside the band assigned? They were almost empty until people moved down after the half. I thought attendance was lousy. It was an important game for this young team. These young men need our support. It is not like this game was suddenly scheduled.

On the other hand, the students across from the players were great and the endzone crazies were outrageous.

[LetItBD08]

Then who was supposed to be sitting in the empty seats in the lower section on the bench side? Also, to whom are the blue seats beside the band assigned?

Great questions! It was so annoying seeing those blue seats nearly completely empty for the start of the game. Blue seats are for big shots (apparently too big to make it to the game). The lower section on the bench side that wasn't packed isn't student seating. I believe a lot of those seats are for players' families and other special guests.

[HeelHater]

I have never been to a game. It would be a life long dream of mine to be able to do this!!!! With all these empty seats how hard is it to get tickets?? I don't care if it is aganst Apex St :D I would just like to be able to say I've been there!! This coming from a fan of 30+ yrs.

[Cicero]

Great questions! It was so annoying seeing those blue seats nearly completely empty for the start of the game. Blue seats are for big shots (apparently too big to make it to the game). The lower section on the bench side that wasn't packed isn't student seating. I believe a lot of those seats are for players' families and other special guests.

The lower section between the blue padded benches and the corner (if you're facing the Duke bench, everything to the right of it and behind it) are graduate student seats. They were not full tonight, but that may be because the ticket office sold general admission seats for the NCCU game, meaning that the stands got crowded particularly quickly and some graduate students had to be turned away. Hopefully those seats will be filled for future games!

Oh, and the blue padded benches behind the bench are for player tickets and other special people.

M. Tullius

[bbar7502]

i always wondered who sits in those seats right on the court. they are always pretty empty unless it is a big game.... i swear i would sign a contract with duke where i would promise to be in one of those seats every game...heck i would sit in the very top of cameron for every game if they would let me buy them outright. oh well get them when i can....

[BlueDevil2K]

Just under 800, according to the card readers. There were hundreds of empty seats in the student section at the North end of the stadium (behind the NMSU bench and across the court on the TV side).

If the undergrads don't start showing up in force after Thanksgiving, they're going to start losing seats (and not just a few)...

[feldspar]

The good news is now we have a thread to dump twice-weekly complaints about attendance into.

Are you implying that threads about paltry attendance are less than worthy?

[yancem]

I have never been to a game. It would be a life long dream of mine to be able to do this!!!! With all these empty seats how hard is it to get tickets?? I don't care if it is aganst Apex St :D I would just like to be able to say I've been there!! This coming from a fan of 30+ yrs.

If you show up to a game against a mid major or even a bottom tier ACC game you should be able to scalp a ticket fairly reasonably. My family has had tickets for since the 70's and except the big games there are almost always someone trying to dump extra tickets. Just show up early and bring a little cash.

[Devilsfan]

People who support Duke with "big bucks", may to somes' surprise "work" for a living. It's not all Durhamites. They may travel far distances to to arrive at 7PM. This game is for the STUDENTS and they ARE supporting Duke with a high level of enthusiasm!

[Bluedog]

Just under 800, according to the card readers. There were hundreds of empty seats in the student section at the North end of the stadium (behind the NMSU bench and across the court on the TV side).

If the undergrads don't start showing up in force after Thanksgiving, they're going to start losing seats (and not just a few)...

I don't think that counter is very accurate (792 is like half empty), although I'd agree with you that there could have been many more students. But the fact that the validation line counter only says that there were 468 in line makes me think the 792 figure is missing some people.

[BlueDevil2K]

I don't think that counter is very accurate (792 is like half empty), although I'd agree with you that there could have been many more students. But the fact that the validation line counter only says that there were 468 in line makes me think the 792 figure is missing some people.

Actually, I think the 468 number is the number of people who validated and then didn't show up (and are therefore still "in line"). The 792 number is actually fairly accurate - all that it misses are cards that were mis-swiped.

[blazindw]

The card readers are not accurate, especially when you're trying to squeeze people into the student section. When we had 1200 people in the section, the card readers read about 900 total. When you're swiping in upwards of 20-25 students a minute, you're likely to miss some.

[shadowfax336]

I believe that the number of cards swiped is the number of students who validated and then went to the game. There were definitely more than 800 people there, we filled up the whole TV side of the student section. As far as the other side goes, part of it is student seating, part of it is opponent fan seating, and then other stuff changes, depending on what Duke wants to do I believe. We certainly could have fit more students last night (people had a lot of space on the TV side), but it wasn't like it was empty or even close. All of the student areas had people in them, people could have just smashed in a little more on the non-TV side. And keep in mind that it was a monday night game and people had class.
(also be aware that while I understand that line of thought I don't necessarily agree with it, I was part of one of the 7 groups that slept out overnight for the game)

[jlear]

we filled up the whole TV side of the student section.

The TV side was not full. There was plenty of space at the end near the band.

[BlueDevil2K]

The TV side was not full. There was plenty of space at the end near the band.

On both sides...and they were indeed student seats (i.e. not reserved for other groups).

I would estimate that there were around 200 empty spots on the TV side alone.

[watzone]

I can it tell you that it is a concern to several Duke media types after attending today's football press conference. People saying they will show up online and then not doinbg so is a problem.

[dukemath]

The lower section between the blue padded benches and the corner (if you're facing the Duke bench, everything to the right of it and behind it) are graduate student seats. They were not full tonight, but that may be because the ticket office sold general admission seats for the NCCU game, meaning that the stands got crowded particularly quickly and some graduate students had to be turned away. Hopefully those seats will be filled for future games!

Oh, and the blue padded benches behind the bench are for player tickets and other special people.

M. Tullius

It is often difficult to judge graduate student attendence because at tip-off, graduate students are allowed to slide over into the undergraduate section. This makes room for graduate students outside who do not have tickets to that game. When there are open spaces in the corner it is sometimes blamed on graduate student attendence when in fact the undergraduate section is underfull and the grad students have simply moved over to get a better view. I doubt that graduate students were turned away if there were empty seats anywhere in the student section.

[Cicero]

I doubt that graduate students were turned away if there were empty seats anywhere in the student section.

As I mentioned in my earlier post, graduate students were turned away from the NCCU game, which was extra-full because the ticket office sold general admission tickets and those people took up space in the graduate student section. In terms of the New Mexico St. game, I have no idea how much (if any) extra undergrad space the graduate students filled. All I know is that the empty space in the corner behind the Duke bench is graduate student seating and that the number of graduate students in attendance fell short of the theoretical 700 spots allotted for them.

M. Tullius

[jlear]

Not that it is a huge difference, but there are 325 to 350 undergrads studying abroad which is almost 5 times as many as will be abroad in the spring. While I have no evidence to support my theory other than my own daughter’s plans for next year, I think many of those students go abroad in the fall so they don't miss basketball. With more students on campus and more familiarity with the opponents I don't think we are going to have any attendance problems after the holidays. If we do we can give more seats to grad students, facility, employees or sell a couple hundred seats for each game.

Here is the info on study abroad from the duke website:
By the time a class graduates, approximately 43-46% will have studied abroad. Of those, on average, 54% go in the fall, 12% in the spring and 34% in summer.

[LetItBD08]

Yeah I love that stat jlear. Although I don't think it has a discernible effect on student attendance, I always get a kick about when people go abroad. I've heard "Duke is the only school in the country that has so many more people go abroad in the fall than the spring...we think it has something to do with basketball" more than once from study abroad coordinators in my time here. Don't know how true it is, but it brings a smile to my face.

[Wander]

Are you implying that threads about paltry attendance are less than worthy?

Might they even make it into his super-cool handbook list?

[devildeac]

Just to add another couple thoughts to the attendance 'issue'

1. Some students have classes in the evenings. I do not know the number of classes or student numbers in those classes to comment further. Perhaps some current undergrads could post some class sizes/numbers. My daughter has a seminar that meets from 630-930PM on Monday this semester so she was a bit peeved about a Monday night game(but, then again, no one asked her:( ).

2. There are rehearsals for some of the 1/4 or 1/2 credit classes in the evenings also. I am referring to the Duke Chorale/Jazz Ensemble/Wind Symphony/Orchestra. Ditto for my daughter again for the Chorale. These are usually 2 nights/week for the chorale. I can't speak for the other groups. Each of these student groups have 50-75 participants so the numbers add up.

(Of course, if she had tried out for cheerleading and made the squad, the above activities would be excluded. She would also be going to Maui on Friday and we would probably have figured out some way to plan our schedules so we could make the journey, too:D ) Oh well, perhaps next year...

[shadowfax336]

on there being room empty at the ends, I was front row half court so I couldn't really see down there. I just saw that we were packed to the back and that people kept squeezing into the middle.

As far as people not going due to classes, etc. I'd like to say that was a valid reason but its probably not because there are not all that many night classes, and very few activities occur on monday nights. The activities can be reasons for missing mid-week games (lots of stuff happens Wed/Thurs nights) but monday nights there are very few classes/meetings/events. However I should point out that it is midterms week. While I understand that Duke students have packed Cameron before during midterms weeks and hopefully will again, I'm just trying to explain some of the possible reasons/rationales/excuses here.

[LetItBD08]

devildeac- you are right that Monday night is still a popular time to have class and just a general busy time for students in general in my opinon. No excuse though, I wish more people planned ahead and rearranged their stuff so they could get to the game. Luckily nearly all of our other games this year are on the weekend so that won't come into play.

shadowfax-it's really tough to tell when you're in the student section - everything around you looks packed (mainly why I was oblivious to all these talks about Cameron not filling up last year), but there was room on the sides.

I think during the week a lot of students are adapting the mentality "I just got out of class, game's in a little while, I could go stand in the corner for a half an hour before game time, exhaust myself (it is a good workout in the student section), watch the game with limiited sightlines, and then run back to do hw OR I could pick up dinner and watch the game on national TV from the comfort of my dorm and then be well rested for all the other work that's piled on before finals." I KNOW all you alums are thinking "in my day this wouldn't go down," but I think this mentality is starting to creep up more and more. I also know that there are 1000 of us who aren't like that at all. We make sure to get to the games early, consider it heaven, and leave nothing behind. We're also doing our very best to get those people who stick with the latter scenerio to fill up the stands. I hope that especially for the first two games we did not disappoint. We're giving it all not for us (as in the 'yay we're Cameron Crazies we must be loud and witty so we could tell our friends back home' attitude) or you guys, but because the team deserves it and they should not lose that HUGE home court advantage. Incoherent rant over.

[eran]

There is actually a fairly large and relatively untapped fanbase here at Duke that can't go to the games. Postdoctoral fellows, who just finished grad school and now came to Duke to do more research, are paid at a level that means we can really only afford to pay scalpers for one or two games per year. Sure many of them will cheer for another school or two (undergrad and grad school), but in our lab alone there are 6 of us that would love to go to a game and 4 of us are rabid Duke fans. In addition to the postdocs, the medical fellows are also paid relatively poorly and would love to go to the games - there are another 2 fellows in our lab alone that would love tickets.

Sadly, postdocs and fellows don't come under the GPSC umbrella and can't campout for tickets.

Yeah, enough complaining... but if we're short on people to go to Cameron, sign us up!

[DevilCastDownfromDurham]

That's a good point, eran, and I think it highlights what I see as a gulf of communication between the two "sides" (i.e. people without tickets arguing that Cameron is too empty and people with tickets they aren't using arguing that work/classes/social life/whatever deserves some time as well). When the (increasingly regular) complaints about empty seats starts up, and usually followed by a call to reduce student seats, it is usually taken by the students as a critique: "You guys aren't good fans like we were. You must be punished. We're taking away your seats." This frustrating because work/classes/etc. ARE important and being lectured by some old fuddy-duddy about how you are "letting down the team" by choosing to study for a hard class isn't fun.

The thing is, concern about empty seats in Cameron isn't (or at least shouldn't be) about that. It is about making sure the team has a full house for every game and making sure that, as much as possible, everyone who wants to come and cheer for the team gets a chance. Not about judgment, not about one-upsmanship. Just the team and the fans.

The fact is, early season games, and especially those near the holidays, have been conspicuously empty for quite a few years. This isn't because "those darn kids aren't real Duke fans," it's because a natural and entirely predictable combination of factors makes those games less enticing and accessible. If we know this ahead of time, why not let the thousands of folks who work at Duke, live in Durham, etc. get a shot? There are so many tremendous Duke fans that have been to only a handful of games (if that) because they aren't rich and are no longer, or never were students.

I know it's been said a thousand times before, but it is frustrating beyond belief for folks without any realistic access to tickets to see empty seats, above or below the railing. This isn't because we're disappointed with those not using them. Everyone understands that classes/work/children's recital/whatever is just as important as coming out for the team. It's because so many fans would LOVE to be in those seats and wish there was a way to access that very scarce but unused opportunity. So let's talk about filling empty seats with things like the ticket exchange board, making it a point to pass on every unused ticket to a friend-of-a-friend, and even cutting back on student allotments for games that everyone agrees are less attractive to students. Let's not do these things as a punitive measure or a way to scold the current students and seatholders, but as a way to make sure the team gets the support it deserves (even if it's not top 5) and the fans get a chance to fill empty seats and cheer for their team.

[Devilsfan]

Classes were not called off because of the game. Some students, believe it or not, may have had homework. Remember this is not you typical southern party school, students come to Duke knowing its difficult academic requirements. Also I don't believe that teams don't fully support each other enough. I wonder how many basketball players were in the stands Saturday for the football game? Also, they were not playing a national powerhouse or an ACC opponent. The students that were able to attend were very supportive and and very vocal. Hope that's enough excuses.

I thought it was a good croud.

[Indoor66]

That's a good point, eran, and I think it highlights what I see as a gulf of communication between the two "sides" (i.e. people without tickets arguing that Cameron is too empty and people with tickets they aren't using arguing that work/classes/social life/whatever deserves some time as well). When the (increasingly regular) complaints about empty seats starts up, and usually followed by a call to reduce student seats, it is usually taken by the students as a critique: "You guys aren't good fans like we were. You must be punished. We're taking away your seats." This frustrating because work/classes/etc. ARE important and being lectured by some old fuddy-duddy about how you are "letting down the team" by choosing to study for a hard class isn't fun.

The thing is, concern about empty seats in Cameron isn't (or at least shouldn't be) about that. It is about making sure the team has a full house for every game and making sure that, as much as possible, everyone who wants to come and cheer for the team gets a chance. Not about judgment, not about one-upsmanship. Just the team and the fans.

The fact is, early season games, and especially those near the holidays, have been conspicuously empty for quite a few years. This isn't because "those darn kids aren't real Duke fans," it's because a natural and entirely predictable combination of factors makes those games less enticing and accessible. If we know this ahead of time, why not let the thousands of folks who work at Duke, live in Durham, etc. get a shot? There are so many tremendous Duke fans that have been to only a handful of games (if that) because they aren't rich and are no longer, or never were students.

I know it's been said a thousand times before, but it is frustrating beyond belief for folks without any realistic access to tickets to see empty seats, above or below the railing. This isn't because we're disappointed with those not using them. Everyone understands that classes/work/children's recital/whatever is just as important as coming out for the team. It's because so many fans would LOVE to be in those seats and wish there was a way to access that very scarce but unused opportunity. So let's talk about filling empty seats with things like the ticket exchange board, making it a point to pass on every unused ticket to a friend-of-a-friend, and even cutting back on student allotments for games that everyone agrees are less attractive to students. Let's not do these things as a punitive measure or a way to scold the current students and seatholders, but as a way to make sure the team gets the support it deserves (even if it's not top 5) and the fans get a chance to fill empty seats and cheer for their team.

Well said. I no longer live in the area and no longer attend games regularly. I know may folks in Durham who are life long Duke fans who have rarely, if ever, attended a game at Cameron. Many would attend if they could get tickets in advance of the game. Most of those folks would not seek out scalpers or go to Cameron with a hope of finding a ticket. A strong exchange program would be a plus for town/gown relationships.

Maybe this issue ties into the other posts (in several threads) about the level of organization is the athletic department. An exchange program requires coordination and organization as well as a REAL desire to make it work. I hope the administration moves in this direction.

[DevilCastDownfromDurham]

Indoor, that's also a great point about the scalpers. I know a lot of folks with families that don't want to bring their kids to Cameron and risk a) not being able to find a scalper (not likely), b) no tickets being left, c) getting ripped off (either because they aren't good at haggling with scalpers or because they get sold fake/duplicate tickets, and d) potentially get fined or arrested for engaging in illegal activity in front of their kids.

If you're single and savvy scalpers can be a fine way to go. But I'd hate to be the dad that gets his kids dressed up and excited about going to a Duke game, only to have to take his heartbroken kids home (and miss the game) with no or bogus tickets, or even worse in a squad car.

[throatybeard]

Part of the problem here is that we're talking about BB and not FB. Which is to say you've got, including exhibition games. like 20 homes games a year, and half or more of them on weeknights. That's a big difference from 6 Saturday home games like you have in FB.

Just about everybody's got problems filling the stadium in basketball with all these games against East Bojangles State and UW-Green Bay. (No disrespect meant to those schools). There are no-shows at all but the most sought-after events in sport. It's simply unrealistic to think all ticketholders (and the students basically count as such) are going to be able to drop everything on a Monday night to see Dead Old Duke put a hurting on EBSU and the Fighting Dirty Rice.

It's a calendar issue. We pretty much define football haplessness, and there are still more Duke bodies at a FB game than Cameron holds. Games are on Saturday.

[Buckeye Devil]

to see a Duke game if I could get a ticket for an even meaningless game just to come to Cameron and see the Devils Play.

[throatybeard]

to see a Duke game if I could get a ticket for an even meaningless game just to come to Cameron and see the Devils Play.

You can. You can get face value scalpies from season ticket holders 0-20 mins before tip, especially with these meaningless early season games.

[B-well]

When I stared this years thread regarding Cameron Attendance, I was hoping to generate some ideas about how we can put Duke Fans in the seats in Cameron - upstairs, downstairs, blue zone, wherever.

There are no unimportant Duke games - some are just more important than others.

To a lot of Duke fans, a chance to see Duke play anybody in Cameron is a dream. TV coverage of Duke is phenominal (somebody said "Duke is on TV so much, I thought they were a Soap Opera"), but there is nothing like the "our house" experience and being part of the support for the Blue Devils.

I am disappointed when there is even one empty seat in Cameron - it is embarassing to hear the Athletic Department brag about our string of continuous sellouts when there are hundreds of empty seats for more than half the ganes.

It doesn't matter to me which Duke Fan is in what seats - I JUST WANT TO FILL THE EMPTY SEATS WITH DUKE FANS.

Please knock off the reasons, excuses, recriminations and denials. PLEASE FOCUS ON HOW TO FILL EVERY SEAT EVERY GAME.

Here is a idea to get things started:
1. Set up a large screen TV in Card Gym or some other large room near Cameron, provide concession and Duke store outlets.
2. Let people (hopefully Duke Fans) gather there and sign in like they do at most restaurants for admission to Cameron to fill empty seats.
3. Charge them $10 per seat when they register - non-refundable - they get to see the game in a crowd of other Duke fans at a minimum.
4. At various times after tip-off, fill empty seats in Cameron with people from the Card Crowd - they may even become know as the Card Crazies. I suppose the migrations could take place during timeouts.
5. For those folks who don't make it into Cameron, give them front of the line privileges for the next game.

This would let people take a chance on getting into Cameron at a reasonable cost - the seats are already paid for - this is not a revenue issue.

One of the fears of the unticketed Duke Fan is that they will not be able to get to a TV in time to watch the game if they are unsuccessful in getting a ticket from a scalper or last minute Iron Duke.

OKAY GUYS - LET'S HEAR IT!!!!!

[captmojo]

Sounds reasonable but how do you decide who gets in? Lottery perhaps?

[gep]

Sounds reasonable but how do you decide who gets in? Lottery perhaps?

Seems like the restaurant analogy would mean that it's "first come, first served"... Problem I see with that, is if you "open" the sign-up line at a specified time, you'll probably get a bunch of folks standing in line waiting for the "open" time, and it will look like the students waiting to get in to Cameron. But, this does seem like a cool idea... if you don't get in to Cameron, you still get to watch the game on "big" screen TV with a bunch of Duke fans... kinda like how Duke fans get to watch the Final Four on big screen TV in Cameron, which apparently works well:cool:

[B-well]

So far as I could tell Tuesday night, there was not an empty seat on the lower level of Cameron - and the Crazies were into the game for all but a short stretch after halftime.

There were about 250 empty seats in the upper level despite it being "sold out." I guess IRON DUKES who can't attend for some reason are not maling their tickets available to the ticket exchange system in time for them to be passed on to other IRON DUKES who do not have Cameron seats. Maybe that system doesn't work. Anybody have any experience using it?

Given all the reasons we've heard as to why students might not fill their seats, their should have been empty student seats for the Wisconsin game - (week night, late game, non-conference, etc., etc.). What was different?

[bdh21]

Given all the reasons we've heard as to why students might not fill their seats, their should have been empty student seats for the Wisconsin game - (week night, late game, non-conference, etc., etc.). What was different?

Top 20 opponent

[Methodistman]

Hey - we were given tickets just beside the band under one of the goals (section 18, to be exact) by our marketing guy. There were quite a few empty seats around us, which was kinda nice because other than the band, we had a bunch of Badger fans around us - of course, they were pretty quiet other than terping about the refs.

It killed me during every time out when the PA would say, "Come join us for the next home game . . ." - yeah right, as if I could!

[loran16]

We;ve had at least almost full attendence for all home games this year.....even before the wisconsin game.

What # of people who registered didnt show, was easily made up for by the large amount of people on the walk up line.

[dukemomLA]

I agree. I find it disgusting that there is EVER an empty seat in Cameron. I am 3000 miles away, so there's no way I can get to most games. But if I were within 100-200 miles, I'd be there in a nanosecond!

Let's try to figure out who "owns" the empty seats, which give us a full 9,314 attendance on record to all games, and....make sure they give their tickets to those who would die to get in there and shout and cheer.

I'm astounded by ANY empty seat over the last 5 years. AWFUL!!! And beyond.

[uncwdevil]

from the games i've been to over the last few years, it seems like a lot of the Iron Duke season ticket holders are older folks, many of whom may be coming from Charlotte, I think that could account for some of the empty seats, especially for the 9 pm tip-offs

[eran]

In addition to the ticket exchange, several of the Iron Dukes have been giving or selling their tickets to International House, who then offer them up to the international students and postdocs by e-mail. I managed to get the best seats we've ever been in for the Wisconsin game this way and only had to pay face value for the seats. I may have annoyed the people sitting around me since I stood up a lot more than they did... but how could you sit through that game and clap politetly!?!

The point of this though is that if the Iron Duke ticket exchange is left with leftover tickets, which I doubt happens for anything except the early season games, they could set up a distribution list for Duke postdocs, medical fellows, employees and general fans. Or you could just give them to the International House so that I'd have a shot at getting them!

[B-well]

Perhaps we have been in different venues???

[diamond dave]

Okay, I'm about to play the "Grumpy Old Alumni" card.

In case no one told the current student body of Duke University, there was a game at Cameron on Sunday afternoon where a player received the ultimate honor of having their number raised to the rafters. Lindsay Harding was honored at halftime of an ACC contest against NC State in front of a three-quarters full student section.

WHAT!?!?!?!?:mad:

Are you current students so spoiled that you don't see the height of this achievement, or is it just a bias against the Women's team? I came over to Durham with my 7-year old daughter to share the moment with her, and I was very disappointed that the students didn't feel like leaving their comfy dorm rooms to see something special and unique and give a former player AS WELL AS A CURRENT TEAM their support. The excuse can't be academics, since the semester just started. And it can't be the NFL games, because you could have been back in your TV rooms by kickoff. Please take the time to realize the opportunity that you have been given by BOTH basketball programs that you have such an accomplished group to cheer on and honor them in return with your attendance and your vocal chords.

Rant over, back to your regularly scheduled programming.

Diamond Dave
E'90

[dukie8]

Okay, I'm about to play the "Grumpy Old Alumni" card.

In case no one told the current student body of Duke University, there was a game at Cameron on Sunday afternoon where a player received the ultimate honor of having their number raised to the rafters. Lindsay Harding was honored at halftime of an ACC contest against NC State in front of a three-quarters full student section.

WHAT!?!?!?!?:mad:

Are you current students so spoiled that you don't see the height of this achievement, or is it just a bias against the Women's team? I came over to Durham with my 7-year old daughter to share the moment with her, and I was very disappointed that the students didn't feel like leaving their comfy dorm rooms to see something special and unique and give a former player AS WELL AS A CURRENT TEAM their support. The excuse can't be academics, since the semester just started. And it can't be the NFL games, because you could have been back in your TV rooms by kickoff. Please take the time to realize the opportunity that you have been given by BOTH basketball programs that you have such an accomplished group to cheer on and honor them in return with your attendance and your vocal chords.

Rant over, back to your regularly scheduled programming.

Diamond Dave
E'90

most women's games don't sell out. this is nothing new. supposedly there were empty seats in the student section of the men's games earlier in the year. it's not the end of the world.

[Defenserules]

I'm guessing there were more students at the game yesterday than ever attended a women's bball game while you were student.

[dukegirlinsc]

Why is this a shock?
Did women's games usually sell out "back then"?
Not to be rude...But I probably wouldn't go if I were in a 20 mile radius. I've been to 3 Women's games at Duke...and it's just not my cup of tea.

[FreezingDevil]

Dear Diamond Dave,

I was at that game and you are right that the student section was not completely full. I certainly wish more of my fellow students had showed up because it was fantastic to see Harding get her jersey retired, but they didn't. But this is nothing new and I resent your suggestion that this generation of Crazies is any less supportive of the women's team than previous generations. Furthermore, the student support for the team was at an all-time high last year, as students even had to be turned away from a few big games.

What I really want to know is why more of the "grumpy old alumni" establishment didn't show up to the game either. If I recall correctly, the upstairs section was even less than 3/4 full. The fans up there were just as pathetic as the student section. So before you start calling the students "spoiled", please take a minute to recognize that the lack of support for the women's program runs far beyond the Duke student body.

[Devil in the Blue Dress]

When I was an undergraduate, Eddie Cameron had a ticket policy which made us angry, but it was effective because helped fill the house for home games. Undergraduates then paid a fairly large student activities fee which covered admission to football and basketball games among other things. When the student section did not fill up by a certain time before the beginning of the game, he opened admission to anyone else for a $1 each. It brought in some revenue and filled the seats. Perhaps a variation of this today would fill up the student section when students don't fill the space.

[jimsumner]

Attendance at the women's game yesterday was 8039. Not spectacular but pretty darn good and a lot better than a lot of bigger schools pull in for women's hoops. Duke would love to have guaranteed sell outs for women's hoops and are working in that direction. Not there yet but IMO the glass is way more than half full.

[BlueDevilBaby]

watching on TV, I thought the Crazies were loud. CIS sounded full to me. Way to go Lindsay. . .wish I could have been there in person to see #10 in the rafters. Great to see her teammates and AB there supporting her on her special day.

[shadowfax336]

For those who were questioning the Crazies' determination at the beginning of the year, there were several hundred who stood out for hours in the snow saturday for the Clemson game, and the whole place was filled up over an hour before tip off...

[diamond dave]

Perhaps I didn't make myself clear. First off, no, "back in my day", the women's games were not standing-room-only type events. In fact, back in the Debbie Leonard days of Duke Basketball, they would hold some of the women's games right before the men's games, in order to get a better crowd. However, until Chris Moreland and Katie Meyer came through, the women's program was not a top level program, and even at its best, it was nowhere near the perennial national power that it is today. Those teams, while competitive, were not national title contenders. The women's program now is one of the tops in the country consistently. This is a different and better era of Duke Women's B-ball. Back then, other than UNC and Senior Day, there were plenty of good seats available.

My real problem is that this was a very special day with Harding's number going into the rafters. This was not just some game. IMHO, any Duke Basketball student/fan worth their salt should have made an exception yesterday. I don't care if you attend every men's game and haven't a lick of interest in the Women's team. If you, like many of us, watched the Cameron Crazies on TV and swore that you'd be there someday, and now you erect your tent and freeze your tail off, to see a player honored with their number being retired, man or woman, was a game that should have been filled with the student body. To discount it because you're not into Women's basketball is a cop-out, and cheap one at that. This was a special moment and it's up to today's Cameron Crazies to recognize that, pull on a sweatshirt, walk over from the quad, flash a Duke ID, and cheer for Duke Basketball, period.

Diamond Dave
E'90

[dukie8]

Perhaps I didn't make myself clear. First off, no, "back in my day", the women's games were not standing-room-only type events. In fact, back in the Debbie Leonard days of Duke Basketball, they would hold some of the women's games right before the men's games, in order to get a better crowd. However, until Chris Moreland and Katie Meyer came through, the women's program was not a top level program, and even at its best, it was nowhere near the perennial national power that it is today. Those teams, while competitive, were not national title contenders. The women's program now is one of the tops in the country consistently. This is a different and better era of Duke Women's B-ball. Back then, other than UNC and Senior Day, there were plenty of good seats available.

My real problem is that this was a very special day with Harding's number going into the rafters. This was not just some game. IMHO, any Duke Basketball student/fan worth their salt should have made an exception yesterday. I don't care if you attend every men's game and haven't a lick of interest in the Women's team. If you, like many of us, watched the Cameron Crazies on TV and swore that you'd be there someday, and now you erect your tent and freeze your tail off, to see a player honored with their number being retired, man or woman, was a game that should have been filled with the student body. To discount it because you're not into Women's basketball is a cop-out, and cheap one at that. This was a special moment and it's up to today's Cameron Crazies to recognize that, pull on a sweatshirt, walk over from the quad, flash a Duke ID, and cheer for Duke Basketball, period.

Diamond Dave
E'90

why is is "cop-out" that maybe many of the current students aren't into the women's basketball team? are students only allowed to follow the sports that you think they should follow? i'm not in durham anymore but i don't random people on the internet should be dictating what students do and don't do in their free time. give it a rest.

[weezie]

OT, but did anyone in attendance at the last two mens home games think that it has become hotter than usual in the stands? It's just a blast furnace inside Cameron and seems to be much more so than in years past. People were getting the vapors up in section 2 and actually had to leave to catch some air. :confused:

[Devil in the Blue Dress]

OT, but did anyone in attendance at the last two mens home games think that it has become hotter than usual in the stands? It's just a blast furnace inside Cameron and seems to be much more so than in years past. People were getting the vapors up in section 2 and actually had to leave to catch some air. :confused:
You are not imagining that's it's hotter. It is. I made some inquiries trying to learn whether it's a matter of energy conservation. (I had also noticed that each of the light fixtures in the women's restroom had fewer fluorescent tubes and the water pressure is lower than usual.) The answer I got wasn't clear in whether this is an energy conservation measure or at the request of the coaching staff. I decided to adjust my wardrobe and hydrate before and during the game.

[LetItBD08]

Hey people sitting upstairs (and fellow students), if you think it's worth it, bring a cheap thermometer to the State game. If I remember I'm going to bring one to see how hot it actually gets in the student section (and also see what the temperature is before people start piling in).
Stop me if you think this is a potentially bad idea, which might raise an eyebrow of some of the powers that be (eg. our favorite fire marshal).

[blazindw]

most women's games don't sell out. this is nothing new. supposedly there were empty seats in the student section of the men's games earlier in the year. it's not the end of the world.

My roommate and I actually tried to get in for the first half (we had to drive back to DC), but couldn't get in (I didn't have my line monitor jacket and he didn't have an ID). But, there seemed to be a lot of people in line to go to the game, and over 8000 people for a women's game is a LOT of people. No, it's not 9314, but it's closer to 9314 than it is to 0.

[Devil in the Blue Dress]

Hey people sitting upstairs (and fellow students), if you think it's worth it, bring a cheap thermometer to the State game. If I remember I'm going to bring one to see how hot it actually gets in the student section (and also see what the temperature is before people start piling in).
Stop me if you think this is a potentially bad idea, which might raise an eyebrow of some of the powers that be (eg. our favorite fire marshal).
Having worked with fire marshals who inspected public schools, I never saw one check the temperature as part of an inspection.

By the way, if you bring a thermometer, be sure that it's a type designed for measuring temperatures in buildings. (You want to be able to hold the thermometer without influencing its reading.) As I recall, you can purchase a fairly good one for a moderate price in a hardware store. Taylor seems to be a good brand.

[buddy]

Yes, it has gotten hotter. It's like a bake oven upstairs. But who cares! That's all part of the experience.

I was at the women's game yesterday. It was good to see so many former players come back to honor Lindsay and the program. I wish attendance were better. Yesterday's crowd was bolstered by a sizable NCSU contingent.

Women's basketball is different from the men's game. Less athletic, played below the rim, often more fundamental (or should be given the relative size of the players). But it is an enjoyable game. Last year was special, but this year's team is improving. I encourage those who enjoy basketball to come out. And the price is right--no need to make a $6,000 or more contribution to Iron Dukes to get the right to buy tickets. I go to both men's and women's games, enjoy both on their own terms.

[Wander]

My roommate and I actually tried to get in for the first half (we had to drive back to DC), but couldn't get in (I didn't have my line monitor jacket and he didn't have an ID).

Ah, that's great to hear. For the UNC game, I'll just steal a line monitor's jacket and get in two hours before tip off!

[blazindw]

Ah, that's great to hear. For the UNC game, I'll just steal a line monitor's jacket and get in two hours before tip off!

Ha, keep dreaming...I don't think even I have that kind of pull anymore ;)

[FreezingDevil]

Hey people sitting upstairs (and fellow students), if you think it's worth it, bring a cheap thermometer to the State game. If I remember I'm going to bring one to see how hot it actually gets in the student section (and also see what the temperature is before people start piling in).
Stop me if you think this is a potentially bad idea, which might raise an eyebrow of some of the powers that be (eg. our favorite fire marshal).

It was a total sauna in the student section during the Clemson game. It was at least 90 degrees in there. The high temperature was probably a combination of having so many kids packed into that space and a poor ventilation system. For the next game I bet that LetItBD08 registers 92 degrees on that thermostat. Just a wager

[Wander]

Ha, keep dreaming...I don't think even I have that kind of pull anymore ;)

I wouldn't really mind because I know you specifically and most line monitors in general put in a lot of effort and work into this stuff. Unfortunately, the line monitors this year are, as a whole, absurdly lazy, and it's kind of sad that they're getting free entrance into the game while other people are paying hundreds of dollars for tickets, if they can even find any.

[Indoor66]

It was a total sauna in the student section during the Clemson game. It was at least 90 degrees in there. The high temperature was probably a combination of having so many kids packed into that space and a poor ventilation system. For the next game I bet that LetItBD08 registers 92 degrees on that thermostat. Just a wager

Take it from someone who has gone to Cameron for a long time: it is always hot in Cameron. The colder outside, the hotter inside. Take it to the bank.

[weezie]

I've been going to the games for, oh well, I'll be coy and say beaucoup years, and while it has always been toasty, this year it has been beyond sweltering. I'll try to remember to bring in the appropriate thermometer next time. Of course, it adds to Cameron's reputation but gee whiz. It makes the cold beer after the game that much better I guess....

[DukeFencer]

I came up to Durham partially just to see Harding's jersey get retired. Thought it was really cool that they invited former players, coaches, trainers of Duke Women's Bball back for the event, and that Harding thanked them for having come before her to make it happen. Don't know if they did that for Beard's but it was a nice touch.

On another note - the "student section" being 3/4 full doesn't *necessarily* have anything to do with the students. During women's games it's opened to everyone, and on Sunday the undergraduate population was marginal. Harder for me to say which of the fans in the section were grad students.

Additionally, it was Duke verse NC State - I would certainly hope that we could pull in a crowd of 8,000 from TWO local fan bases! State brought their entire marching band to be a vocal force in the stands behind the team, and there were a large (vocal) number of State fans on the TV side as well.

[LetItBD08]

Wander- Full disclosure...three year blue tenter first year line monitor right here. To be honest I was really annoyed with line monitors the first three years here. I decided to apply to be one this year because I thought that line monitors were too lax and not committed enough, and I knew I wouldn't fall into that trap. I think/hope that so far I've done a lot. I make sure to be out in K-ville a lot (it's freaking fun out there). For a couple of games this year I've ended up with a worse spot than I would have if I wasn't a line monitor based solely on time out in K-ville. I know there are others with similar mentalities.
If you or other students reading this have any specific gripes please message me. Or if you want to meet me out in K-ville sometime please let me know so you could ask questions/get answers/complain and get a genuine response. Like I said, I'm trying really hard not to take the position for granted, and I really want to get rid of the whole line monitor negative stigma.

[blazindw]

Wander- Full disclosure...three year blue tenter first year line monitor right here. To be honest I was really annoyed with line monitors the first three years here. I decided to apply to be one this year because I thought that line monitors were too lax and not committed enough, and I knew I wouldn't fall into that trap. I think/hope that so far I've done a lot. I make sure to be out in K-ville a lot (it's freaking fun out there). For a couple of games this year I've ended up with a worse spot than I would have if I wasn't a line monitor based solely on time out in K-ville. I know there are others with similar mentalities.
If you or other students reading this have any specific gripes please message me. Or if you want to meet me out in K-ville sometime please let me know so you could ask questions/get answers/complain and get a genuine response. Like I said, I'm trying really hard not to take the position for granted, and I really want to get rid of the whole line monitor negative stigma.

I will co-sign to this. A lot of line monitors are working very hard to make sure that the K-Ville experience is as fun and fair as possible, and on gamedays that the entrance process is as smooth and efficient as possible. LetItBD, I can tell you, was all over the place on Saturday, busting his butt to make as many people squeeze into that section as possible. Berto was doing the same thing. Sometimes people don't get in, that's what happens when you have a section where demand exceeds supply. But, they do work hard with what's given to them, and a lot of people don't give them enough credit (it happened when I was running the show as well). You can't please everyone, but know that I was impressed with your efforts...and of course, thanks again for letting me re-live the experience once again!

[Wander]

I'm not just taking random swipes at line monitors for no reason. I believe you guys when you say LetItBD works hard, because I think a lot of the line monitors as individuals put forth a lot of effort. However, the leadership is lacking. I'm not as old as some people here, but there was an absolute fantastic three year stretch of HLMs with blazindw, Lauren, and the guy in between whose name escapes me right now. Can anyone really tell me with a straight face that last year's or this year's HLM were/are as good as Lauren was?

[LetItBD08]

I definitely see where you're coming from because like I said I despised (okay maybe too strong a word) the head line monitor and what I perceived to be a lack of care for K-ville people in general last year. (By the way, the line monitor for the 04-05 season was Steve - I liked him as well).

This year's HLM truly loves K-ville and Duke Basketball (men's and women's). He's had to put up with the validation system and all the crap that came with that, and he was instrumental in relaying students' feelings to the appropriate administrators repeatedly. He was doing this all while doing his best to support the system and in my opinion taking the fall for some things that were absolutely not his fault. He's been keeping the facebook group up to date and using it as a communication tool with everyone (something that in my opinion has been lacking the past few years). I understand that your opinion of him and the job he's done is your own, but please offer suggestions either to me or talk to the HLM (he's a really nice guy). He is in no way on a power trip and understands better than anyone that we're all on the same side.

[wbs2455]

anyone here tent under j-mo? I still remember the morning where hundreds of us were lined up at 8am to get wristbands for a weeknight game and the wristbands didn't show up for like an hour because someone (head line monitor) slept in (or at least that was what we were told). At least the rest of the line monitor staff hung out with everyone in line while waiting for the wristbands to arrive.

[Wander]

Thanks for your input LetItBD. I actually don't really blame the HLM for the validation stuff - I can read between the lines and see that he doesn't like it and was forced into it. Also, it should be noted that all will be forgiven if you guys disband Tent 1. Should that happen, I'll take everything back, bow down to this year's HLM as the greatest line monitor in the history of Duke basketball, and buy you a cake.

[juise]

anyone here tent under j-mo? I still remember the morning where hundreds of us were lined up at 8am to get wristbands for a weeknight game and the wristbands didn't show up for like an hour because someone (head line monitor) slept in (or at least that was what we were told). At least the rest of the line monitor staff hung out with everyone in line while waiting for the wristbands to arrive.

I remember that. My roommate did the scheduling that year, as well as the next year under blazindw. J-Mo used to post on the old boards, but I don't remember seeing him since the switch.

[Raleighfan]

Take it from someone who has gone to Cameron for a long time: it is always hot in Cameron. The colder outside, the hotter inside. Take it to the bank.

For men's games, our seats are under the TV platform and I can tell you that not only is it sweltering up there (partly from the TV lights) but there is no air flow whatsoever. None....not since they bricked up the windows behind us. Used to be that the windows stayed open and on a cold afternoon/night, the temp wasn't so bad. I now have a little hand-held fan that I keep blowing in front of my face to keep from passing out. Where we sit is like having a wet blanket over your face. And no, I do not wear sweatshirts to Cameron...no way. Take this to the bank: when you see the EMS people trying to maneuver a body from the top of center court seats and down the aisle, it'll be ME. We and those who sit around us are experiencing absolutely no benefits from "improvements" to CIS in recent years....that goes for the sound system, the air situation, you name it.

At women's games, I have no complaints; it's a different story: our seats are on the aisle near exit 14, about 1/3 of the way up and we never have a problem with being too hot.

[LetItBD08]

Ohhhh Tent 1. As much as I do like a good cake, I personally have become friends with a lot of that tent this year. Again, I'm sure your opinion is merited, but just to add my two cents they're extremely committed to Duke Basketball and are really nice people who love being out in K-ville (for crazily long stretches of time). I've had a couple of those internal vendettas against certain tents over the past couple of years, but in the end we're all on the same side (sorry about throwing out that cliche again).