Looming Nike Scandal (Zion allegation shown to be a hoax)

[Billy Dat]

This tweet seems to be making some major waves this morning...

@MichaelAvenatti
Tmrw at 11 am ET, we will be holding a press conference to disclose a major high school/college basketball scandal perpetrated by @Nike that we have uncovered. This criminal conduct reaches the highest levels of Nike and involves some of the biggest names in college basketball.

Related...

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-03-25/michael-avenatti-is-charged-with-trying-to-extort-nike-nke
California lawyer Michael Avenatti was charged by federal prosecutors in New York with attempting to extort millions of dollars out of Nike Inc. by threatening to release damaging information about the company, which did not meet his demands, Bloomberg News reports

[uh_no]

This tweet seems to be making some major waves this morning...

@MichaelAvenatti
Tmrw at 11 am ET, we will be holding a press conference to disclose a major high school/college basketball scandal perpetrated by @Nike that we have uncovered. This criminal conduct reaches the highest levels of Nike and involves some of the biggest names in college basketball.

Related...

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-03-25/michael-avenatti-is-charged-with-trying-to-extort-nike-nke
California lawyer Michael Avenatti was charged by federal prosecutors in New York with attempting to extort millions of dollars out of Nike Inc. by threatening to release damaging information about the company, which did not meet his demands, Bloomberg News reports

well whatever else happens, sounds like his motives are pure.

[BeachBlueDevil]

I was just about to post the article you added about his arrest.... Avenatti has always come across as slimy to me and his arrest over this Nike shakedown proves it.

But to be fair, maybe he has something... But I don't think his credibility (or lack of) will help him.

[gocanes0506]

I had little doubt that Nike was doing it too. When one does it to gain an edge, others will follow to not be left behind.

Same can be said with cheating among universities. Pure collegiate sports died a long time ago. Heck this goes back to Dixie Classic (Big four tournament) days.

Its like the thief in the Army. One person started it and others are just trying to get back what it is theirs.

[hallcity]

If I had some dirt on Nike that I wanted to reveal, Avenatti would be about the last lawyer I'd ask to help me. Stormy Daniels had a tale to tell but everything else he's touched ended up as a fiasco.

[J4Kop99]

Well this in very interesting. MA has absolutely no credibility so I'm not sure what to believe here re: Nike.

[BigZ]

MAGA

Michael Avenatti Got Arrested

[elvis14]

I just hope that if there is dirt on Nike revealed that it doesn't touch Duke (I can list at least 1 other school that I hope gets tainted...I'd say nailed but they have too much $$ to ever be touched)

Although Avenatti isn't the greatest of guys his heroic efforts against Bif have been great this past year or so.

[JasonEvans]

Avenatti has also been charged today by California prosecutors who say he embezzled from a client and committed bank and wire fraud. He's got a whole heap of problems ahead of him at the moment. I doubt anyone will pay any attention to his extortion scheme with Nike other than to laugh at him.


If I had some dirt on Nike that I wanted to reveal, Avenatti would be about the last lawyer I'd ask to help me. Stormy Daniels had a tale to tell but everything else he's touched ended up as a fiasco.

Yup, that's exactly what I said to Donald when he sent the initial Nike story to me. That was before we even knew about the extortion and other charges.

[SavDukeGrad]

Avenatti has also been charged today by California prosecutors who say he embezzled from a client and committed bank and wire fraud. He's got a whole heap of problems ahead of him at the moment. I doubt anyone will pay any attention to his extortion scheme with Nike other than to laugh at him.



Yup, that's exactly what I said to Donald when he sent the initial Nike story to me. That was before we even knew about the extortion and other charges.

MA has no credibility, and I would be fine if I never heard his name again. But it sounds like he’s going down swinging!

[UrinalCake]

MA has no credibility, and I would be fine if I never heard his name again. But it sounds like he’s going down swinging!

If we winds up pointing a finger at Duke, it's because he's a lying scumbag with zero credibility. If he calls out the CHeats, then I totally believe him. :D

[flyingdutchdevil]

If we winds up pointing a finger at Duke, it's because he's a lying scumbag with zero credibility. If he calls out the CHeats, then I totally believe him. :D

And if he calls out both? ;)

[El_Diablo]

If we winds up pointing a finger at Duke, it's because he's a lying scumbag with zero credibility. If he calls out the CHeats, then I totally believe him. :D

Nassir Little was already implicated in the Adidas scandal (as he is clearly "Player-12," who was being offered $150,000 by Miami). The FBI also indicated that "Player-12" had a matching $150,000 offer from another school that was affiliated with another shoe company.

[duke79]

https://nypost.com/2019/03/25/michael-avenatti-charged-with-trying-to-extort-20m-from-nike/

Some more details about what Mr. Avenatti may have been trying to do. I, for one, would NOT believe a SiNGLE thing he alleges, on anything!

[g4orce]

You have to speculate how this particular lawyer ended up with any details about Nike that other investigators haven't uncovered? in light of the Adidas scandal, you have to think that all shoe (endorsement / agent) deals are under the microscope, so how did he find out anything that no one else has?

Even if someone decided to blow the whistle, certainly they could have found a better lawyer to rep this than this guy. Geez.

[bedeviled]

You have to speculate how this particular lawyer ended up with any details about Nike that other investigators haven't uncovered?

Per this purported US vs Avenatti complaint (https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/5780145/U-S-v-Michael-Avenatti-Complaint.pdf), Avenatti was representing a client who perhaps solicited Avenatti's services.


"Client-1" is a coach of an amateur athletic union ("AAU") men's basetball program based in California. For a number of years, the AAU program coached by Client-1 had a sponsorship agreement with Nike pursuant to which Nike paid the AAU program approximately $72,000 annually.


AVENATTI stated, in substance and in part, that he represented Client-1, an AAU coach, whose team had previously had a contractual relationship with Nike, but whose contract Nike had recently decided not to renew. According to AVENATTI, Client-1 had evidence that one or more Nike employees had authorized and funded payments to the families of top high school basketball players and/or their families and attempted to conceal those payments, similar to conduct involving a rival company that had recently been the subject of a criminal prosecution in this District. AVENATTI identified three former high school players in particular, and indicate that his client was aware of payments to others as well.

(The players were not specified in this document)

[JetpackJesus]

And if he calls out both? ;)

He's a lying scumbag who happens to be right about one thing.

[swood1000]

How could a guy who graduated first in his class from law school do something so stupid? Avenatti’s precarious financial position has been in the news recently (i.e. that he owes a lot of money and has been sued for more). Maybe this is what true desperation looks like. It reminds me of when John DeLorean’s automobile venture was going south and to keep it afloat he decided to sell a little cocaine.


"I'm not f---ing around with this, and I'm not continuing to play games," Avenatti was recorded as saying.

"You guys know enough now to know you've got a serious problem. And it's worth more in exposure to me to just blow the lid on this thing. A few million dollars doesn't move the needle for me. I'm just being really frank with you."

"I'll go and I'll go take $10 billion off your client's market cap. But I'm not f---ing around," he said.

"If [Nike] wants to have one confidential settlement and we're done, they can buy that for $22.5 million and we're done," Avenatti is quoted as saying. "Full confidentiality, we ride off into the sunset."

[MChambers]

How could a guy who graduated first in his class from law school do something so stupid? Avenatti’s precarious financial position has been in the news recently (i.e. that he owes a lot of money and has been sued for more). Maybe this is what true desperation looks like. It reminds me of when John DeLorean’s automobile venture was going south and to keep it afloat he decided to sell a little cocaine.

Very desperate. But Avenatti has done some pretty bad things over the last year, not just this, if press accounts are true. Guy must have an enormous ego.

[uh_no]

the more i think/read about this, the more it seems like the most likely story here is he had no scoop....and figured he'd slander Nike to extort money.

If you DID have a scoop, why would you try to extort? And if there WAS a story, why wouldn't nike come to a hush-hush arrangement instead of blowing this up?

Wonder if he also sold a metric ton of one-week calls on Nike as well...

[MChambers]

the more i think/read about this, the more it seems like the most likely story here is he had no scoop...and figured he'd slander Nike to extort money.

If you DID have a scoop, why would you try to extort? And if there WAS a story, why wouldn't nike come to a hush-hush arrangement instead of blowing this up?

Wonder if he also sold a metric ton of one-week calls on Nike as well...

Just representing some AAU coach in a claim against Nike wouldn’t be financially lucrative. I don’t know what the coach’s claim would be.

But if Nike were to agree to Avenatti’s proposal, that’s serious money.

[uh_no]

Just representing some AAU coach in a claim against Nike wouldn’t be financially lucrative. I don’t know what the coach’s claim would be.

But if Nike were to agree to Avenatti’s proposal, that’s serious money.

so here's the thought.

if the claims are true:

nike pays the guy off, or makes some deal with him...and tells him otherwise he's going to prison

if the claims are false:
nike just sends him to prison

I don't see a win for nike here by sending him to prison if his claims are true....since it'll all come out under oath anyway

[swood1000]

the more i think/read about this, the more it seems like the most likely story here is he had no scoop...and figured he'd slander Nike to extort money.

If you DID have a scoop, why would you try to extort? And if there WAS a story, why wouldn't nike come to a hush-hush arrangement instead of blowing this up?

Wonder if he also sold a metric ton of one-week calls on Nike as well...
It sounds like there was something to it but that Nike had either already reported it to federal prosecutors or did so as soon as Avenatti informed them of it. According to Nike:


"Nike has been cooperating with the government’s investigation into NCAA basketball for over a year. When Nike became aware of this matter, Nike immediately reported it to federal prosecutors. When Mr. Avenatti attempted to extort Nike over this matter, Nike with the assistance of outside counsel at Boies Schiller Flexner, aided the investigation.”

[BigWayne]

I had not paid much attention to Avenatti being in the news, but it didn't take me too long to figure out he is someone that seems to have a bad cloud following him around. Anybody that hires him is either desperate or hasn't done their homework. https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/tullys-creditors-seek-to-force-parent-of-embattled-coffee-chain-into-bankruptcy/

[HereBeforeCoachK]

I had not paid much attention to Avenatti being in the news, but it didn't take me too long to figure out he is someone that seems to have a bad cloud following him around. Anybody that hires him is either desperate or hasn't done their homework. https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/tullys-creditors-seek-to-force-parent-of-embattled-coffee-chain-into-bankruptcy/

he is beneath pond scum.....arrogant, vain self promoting liar and hustler.....

[swood1000]

Furthermore, Avenatti had to be insane to think that Nike would agree to be extorted by him. Nike can call this just a group of rogue Nike employees and say that with the internal controls now in place it could never happen again. On the other hand, if they got caught paying hush money to Michael Avenatti, alias Creepy Porn Lawyer, thereby incorporating his image into the Nike brand, that’s when their market capitalization would take a dramatic and permanent hit. Once they pay him he owns them, and he thought they would go for this? There’s a screw loose.

After Avenatti tweeted Monday that on Tuesday he was going to disclose a “major high school/college basketball scandal” Nike stock fell about 1% but then on news of Avenatti’s arrest it mostly recovered. Nike shares are up more than 10% year to date.

[swood1000]

Hold the phone. Maybe we’ve been too hasty. Avenatti says that he is innocent and will be exonerated:


"As all of you know," Avenatti told reporters, "for the entirety of my career, I have fought against the powerful; powerful people and powerful corporations. I will never stop fighting that good fight. I am highly confident that when all of the evidence is laid bare in connection with these cases, when it is all known, when due process occurs, that I will be fully exonerated and justice will be done."

[JetpackJesus]

It sounds like there was something to it but that Nike had either already reported it to federal prosecutors or did so as soon as Avenatti informed them of it. According to Nike:

I like how Nike's outside counsel name dropped their firm in the statement they prepared for Nike.

[rocketeli]

is this guy the dumbest "smart" person ever? First you tick off the president of the US, who regardless of what one might think of him is a vengeful guy with plenty of supporters in an organization like the FBI, then you tackle a multi-billion dollar corporation. Mike's just lucky we aren't in Russia. And could this work out any better for Nike? It would be the least surprising thing ever if they were also engaging in the usual industry practices of the sneaker promotion industry and now they will 1. look like the good guys 2. whatever is found will be discounted in the public mind by the extortion charge. It's so good for them that if I were a conspiracy theorist, I'd wonder if they have a secret arrangement with Avenatti, like he pretends to extort them and they slip him a couple of hundred million after the dust settles and he can retire to a tropical island somewhere.

[Neals384]

Per this purported US vs Avenatti complaint (https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/5780145/U-S-v-Michael-Avenatti-Complaint.pdf), Avenatti was representing a client who perhaps solicited Avenatti's services.


(The players were not specified in this document)

According to the linked document, Avenatti's phone calls and meetings where he extortedNike were recorded - with permission. Avenatti has to be the world's dumbest lawyer.

By the way, it's weird that the linked document includes repeated references to a co-conspirator (another lawyer), who participated in the phone calls and meetings. Why would this person not be named and similarly charged?

[BeachBlueDevil]

https://nypost.com/2019/03/25/michael-avenatti-charged-with-trying-to-extort-20m-from-nike/

Some more details about what Mr. Avenatti may have been trying to do. I, for one, would NOT believe a SiNGLE thing he alleges, on anything!

.... And Mark Geragos is reportedly involved. Another guy that doesn't come across as slimy as Avenatti, but does come across as someone with a giant ego as well. Let the feds sort these two goobers out and effectively ( hopefully) erase their names from the media once this is all said and done..... Until Avenatti writes a book. Which is more than likely coming at some point after the year he's had.

[OldPhiKap]

is this guy the dumbest "smart" person ever?

Pride goeth before the fall.

[HereBeforeCoachK]

is this guy the dumbest "smart" person ever? First you tick off the president of the US, who regardless of what one might think of him is a vengeful guy with plenty of supporters in an organization like the FBI, then you tackle a multi-billion dollar corporation. Mike's just lucky we aren't in Russia. And could this work out any better for Nike? It would be the least surprising thing ever if they were also engaging in the usual industry practices of the sneaker promotion industry and now they will 1. look like the good guys 2. whatever is found will be discounted in the public mind by the extortion charge. It's so good for them that if I were a conspiracy theorist, I'd wonder if they have a secret arrangement with Avenatti, like he pretends to extort them and they slip him a couple of hundred million after the dust settles and he can retire to a tropical island somewhere.

I think Avenatti is simply audacious...and the consummate narcissist and self promoter. Such traits, like the audacity, can open a lot of doors in the short run. But now it's backfired on him several times in the past months. He's now a national joke.....for someone like him, the only thing worse than being ignored is being mocked. He's made that so easy now.

[JasonEvans]

Avenatti is a joke and this whole thing makes him look just awful, but one has to admit there is a very fine line between extortion and a settlement negotiation. If he prepared a legal action against Nike on behalf of that AAU coach, he may have a winning argument there.

Of course, there is also the misappropriation of client finds as well as the bank and wire fraud to deal with.

-Jason "dude is probably losing his law license and making license plates in the near future" Evans

[Indoor66]

Avenatti is a joke and this whole thing makes him look just awful, but one has to admit there is a very fine line between extortion and a settlement negotiation. If he prepared a legal action against Nike on behalf of that AAU coach, he may have a winning argument there.

Of course, there is also the misappropriation of client finds as well as the bank and wire fraud to deal with.

-Jason "dude is probably losing his law license and making license plates in the near future" Evans

I am not sure how many settlement negotiations you have participated in, but they are way different than an extortion attempt. The dynamics are quite different. The amount of shared information is different and the parties positions are different. Conflating the two is weak sauce.

[CameronBornAndBred]

There is an article on Yahoo by Dan Wetzel with some valid points.

Michael Avenatti’s arrest doesn’t erase the fact he may have dirt on college basketball

The circle of sleaze here is dense, but that’s the world college basketball has created for itself. The NCAA tournament is supposed-to-be this purified bit of Americana, but the underbelly is far too robust due to amateurism rules that create a black market for people to exploit and then allegedly others to exploit by blackmailing the initial exploiters.

“A suit and tie doesn’t mask the fact that at its core this was an old-fashioned shake down,” U.S. Attorney Geoffrey Berman said Monday.

He was speaking about Avenatti. He could have been speaking about a lot of well-dressed college administrators and basketball coaches, as well.

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/michael-avenattis-arrest-doesnt-erase-the-fact-he-may-have-dirt-on-the-ncaa-224255687.html

[J4Kop99]

I like how Nike's outside counsel name dropped their firm in the statement they prepared for Nike.

David Boies may like the limelight more than Avanatti.

--Boies may be doing some PR work for himself after how badly he looked in that recent HBO Elizabeth Holmes (Theranos) documentary.

[MChambers]

Avenatti is a joke and this whole thing makes him look just awful, but one has to admit there is a very fine line between extortion and a settlement negotiation. If he prepared a legal action against Nike on behalf of that AAU coach, he may have a winning argument there.

Of course, there is also the misappropriation of client finds as well as the bank and wire fraud to deal with.

-Jason "dude is probably losing his law license and making license plates in the near future" Evans

Not if Avenatti was insisting that one term of the settlement be that Nike hire Avenatti to conduct a $20 million internal investigation. That benefits Avenatti, not his client. No way that just a settlement negotiation.

[DavidBenAkiva]

Avenatti this morning specifically named DeAndre Ayton as someone that received payments from Nike through is AAU program. The ambulance chaser appears to be representing the AAU coach of Cal Supreme (no Duke connections as far as I can tell, for what it is worth). it seems that Nike severed its relationship with the AAU coach and now he is naming names.

[devildeac]

Avenatti is a joke and this whole thing makes him look just awful, but one has to admit there is a very fine line between extortion and a settlement negotiation. If he prepared a legal action against Nike on behalf of that AAU coach, he may have a winning argument there.

Of course, there is also the misappropriation of client finds as well as the bank and wire fraud to deal with.

-Jason "dude is probably losing his law license and making license plates in the near future" Evans

I'd like to place an order, please:

9226

[unclsam1]

His activities ensure there will be no abatement of lawyer jokes.

[JasonEvans]

Ok, sorry for the whole settlement vs. extortion thing. I was merely trying to come up with some possible defense for Avenatti after hearing those recordings.

In other news, Avenatti just named Bol Bol on twitter (https://twitter.com/MichaelAvenatti/status/1110546772819103745) --


Bol Bol and his handlers also received large sums from Nike. The receipts are clear as day.

If Avenatti somehow has receipts, that could be a problem for Nike. That said, I'm a little surprised Bol Bol would be involved in this stuff as his dad made millions in the NBA. It looks like there may be something going on with the EYBL, Nike's AAU league. It would hardly be surprising to find out Nike was using the EYBL to get closer to elite prospects and perhaps butter the kids/families up so those kids sign with Nike when they turn pro.

-Jason "the high school basketball/AAU world has been a cesspool for a loooong time... if you want to clean up amateur hoops, that is the place to start" Evans

[flyingdutchdevil]

Ok, sorry for the whole settlement vs. extortion thing. I was merely trying to come up with some possible defense for Avenatti after hearing those recordings.

In other news, Avenatti just named Bol Bol on twitter (https://twitter.com/MichaelAvenatti/status/1110546772819103745) --



If Avenatti somehow has receipts, that could be a problem for Nike. That said, I'm a little surprised Bol Bol would be involved in this stuff as his dad made millions in the NBA. It looks like there may be something going on with the EYBL, Nike's AAU league. It would hardly be surprising to find out Nike was using the EYBL to get closer to elite prospects and perhaps butter the kids/families up so those kids sign with Nike when they turn pro.

-Jason "the high school basketball/AAU world has been a cesspool for a loooong time... if you want to clean up amateur hoops, that is the place to start" Evans

According to Wikipedia on Manute Bol:


Bol established the Ring True Foundation to continue fund-raising for Sudanese refugees. He gave most of his earnings (an estimated $3.5 million) to their cause.

I'm sure the Bol family has some money, but this isn't Lebron money. It's not even Jahlil money. I'd say that Tyus has more money in his bank account right now than the Bol family.

[Nick]

More from Avenatti on Twitter:


The corruption at Nike was rampant with Merl Code and increased with his apprentice DeBose after Code left for Adiddas. Those above DeBose knew all about the payments. Nike conspired to route many of the payments through a convicted felon. Nike then lied to the government.

If Nike was cooperating with the government for over a year relating to this scandal (they weren’t - this is a lie), where are the disclosures in their SEC filings? There are none. Wait until the SEC begins their investigation & starts asking why Nike hid this info from investors

I'm not sure what to think of all this. On the one hand, Avenatti is really sleazy, but on the other hand so are many aspects of college athletics.

[swood1000]

If Nike was cooperating with the government for over a year relating to this scandal (they weren’t - this is a lie), where are the disclosures in their SEC filings? There are none. Wait until the SEC begins their investigation & starts asking why Nike hid this info from investors.

Maybe an SEC specialist can correct me, but if a company is cooperating with the FBI in an undercover investigation does the SEC require that to be disclosed on the financial statements?


Those above DeBose knew all about the payments. Nike conspired to route many of the payments through a convicted felon. Nike then lied to the government. …They are trying to divert attention from their own crimes.

So I guess this is going to be his defense, but what is it? Savaging Nike is no doubt satisfying for him but how is that a defense? Is he saying that he was just representing his client but that notorious criminal enterprise Nike, when their wrongdoing was uncovered, decided to frame him as an extorter in order to portray themselves as the innocent victim? Not sure how much money I would bet on this strategy, but perhaps these are lean days for viable defense strategies for Avenatti.

[MChambers]

Maybe an SEC specialist can correct me, but if a company is cooperating with the FBI in an undercover investigation does the SEC require that to be disclosed on the financial statements?



So I guess this is going to be his defense, but what is it? Savaging Nike is no doubt satisfying for him but how is that a defense? Is he saying that he was just representing his client but that notorious criminal enterprise Nike, when their wrongdoing was uncovered, decided to frame him as an extorter in order to portray themselves as the innocent victim? Not sure how much money I would bet on this strategy, but perhaps these are lean days for viable defense strategies for Avenatti.

I used to be an SEC specialist. In general, being investigated, even if you're cooperating, doesn't have to be disclosed. Usually, you don't have to disclose unless there is a pending proceeding (actual court case, not just an investigation). If you have reached an agreement to settle the case, you'd have to disclose that, but that's not the case here, apparently.

Sometimes, companies will choose to disclose, but Avenatti seems to think it's required.

[Tripping William]

I used to be an SEC specialist.

Paul Finebaum? Is that you? :o

[BandAlum83]

According to the linked document, Avenatti's phone calls and meetings where he extortedNike were recorded - with permission. Avenatti has to be the world's dumbest lawyer.

By the way, it's weird that the linked document includes repeated references to a co-conspirator (another lawyer), who participated in the phone calls and meetings. Why would this person not be named and similarly charged?

IANAL, but as this is being called extortion, couldn't it just as easily be considered settlement negotiations?

I haven't really looked into the specifics, but I would imagine that is a plausible defense.

ETA: Looks like this has been brought up and discarded

[swood1000]

On the other hand, Avenatti’s co-conspirator is reportedly (http://www.espn.com/espn/story/_/id/26357332/feds-avenatti-tried-extort-20m-nike) Mark Geragos, who also represents Jussie Smollett, against whom all charges were dropped Tuesday, with Smollett saying:


"I want you to know that not for a moment was it in vain. I have been truthful and consistent on every level since day one. I would not be my mother’s son if I was capable of one drop of what I’m accused of.”

Conviction doesn’t seem any more likely for Avenatti than it seemed for Smollett. Maybe Geragos has some magic dust.

[Kfanarmy]

Avenatti is a joke and this whole thing makes him look just awful, but one has to admit there is a very fine line between extortion and a settlement negotiation. If he prepared a legal action against Nike on behalf of that AAU coach, he may have a winning argument there.Of course, there is also the misappropriation of client finds as well as the bank and wire fraud to deal with.

-Jason "dude is probably losing his law license and making license plates in the near future" Evans

Isn't this pure speculation?

[BandAlum83]

On the other hand, Avenatti’s co-conspirator is reportedly (http://www.espn.com/espn/story/_/id/26357332/feds-avenatti-tried-extort-20m-nike) Mark Geragos, who also represents Jussie Smollett, against whom all charges were dropped Tuesday, with Smollett saying:



Conviction doesn’t seem any more likely for Avenatti than it seemed for Smollett. Maybe Geragos has some magic dust.

So, if I have this right, After Smollett was convicted and sentenced by the public and the media, all charges against him were dropped?

Did double jeopardy play a part?

[camion]

So, if I have this right, After Smollett was convicted and sentenced by the public and the media, all charges against him were dropped?

Did double jeopardy play a part?

Not double jeopardy. I believe it was Celebrity Jeopardy (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ImaYMoTi2g8).

[75Crazie]

Paul Finebaum? Is that you? :o
I hate it when somebody beats me to a good joke.

[swood1000]

So, if I have this right, After Smollett was convicted and sentenced by the public and the media, all charges against him were dropped?

You have that right.


Did double jeopardy play a part?

I don't think it has been explained yet. Apparently the police and the mayor (Rahm Emanuel) are not happy.

[Saratoga2]

Isn't this pure speculation?

First the Zion shoe incident and noow this. Nike PR is taking a pounding.

[swood1000]

IANAL, but as this is being called extortion, couldn't it just as easily be considered settlement negotiations?

I haven't really looked into the specifics, but I would imagine that is a plausible defense.

ETA: Looks like this has been brought up and discarded

There can be legitimate and extortionate threats of economic harm. In federal law (https://casetext.com/case/chevron-corp-v-donziger-8#N212183), extortion includes an element of wrongfulness.


The element of wrongfulness may be supplied by (1) the lack of a plausible claim of entitlement to the property demanded, or (2) the lack of a good faith belief of entitlement, or (3) the lack of a nexus between the threat and the claim of right. It may be supplied also, in this Court's view, by inherently wrongful conduct. The existence of this element of wrongfulness is a question of fact for the fact finder. Finally, neither the plausibility of a claim of right nor the threatener's good faith belief is established merely by proof that the threatener in fact thought that the threatener, in some cosmic, moralistic or personal ethical sense, was entitled to the property.

So who was Avenatti’s client? The coach? What injury did he suffer and does he have a plausible claim of entitlement to $22.5 million or is that really just the price Nike must pay to avoid a $10 billion reduction in its market capitalization?

[cspan37421]

I have learned not to prejudge a case based on the claims of one side only, and as a non expert in law (IANAL) I'm not sure I can even judge smoking-gun recorded conversations half the time.

Having set that context, I found this opinion column (by Matt Levine, Bloomberg) enlightening and interesting. It's been titled, "You Have to Threaten People Right"

https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2019-03-26/you-have-to-threaten-people-right

I wonder if GW had a class that covered that topic, or if it's a learn-on-the-job sort of thing.

Couple side notes, just curious things to me, I welcome feedback on them.

One - those who claim college players aren't paid, and how unfair it is for the school to profit off their labor ... setting aside what I understand are modest permissible stipends, doesn't that argument rest on a major unstated premise that a college education is worthless, even as payment-in-kind? Some of us had to pay cash money for ours.

Two - why aren't more people bothered by the fact that under-the-table payments result in tax evasion, and that the rest of us effectively pay more taxes as a result? [either rates could be lower, deficits/debt could be lower, purchasing power of the dollar higher etc etc].

[swood1000]

One - those who claim college players aren't paid, and how unfair it is for the school to profit off their labor ... setting aside what I understand are modest permissible stipends, doesn't that argument rest on a major unstated premise that a college education is worthless, even as payment-in-kind? Some of us had to pay cash money for ours.

I think the premise is that the value of tuition, room and board is miniscule compared to the true market value of the services of the top athletes plus the amount they could command in endorsements.

[MChambers]

Paul Finebaum? Is that you? :o


I hate it when somebody beats me to a good joke.

I don't get the joke. Who is Paul Finebaum?

[Tripping William]

I don't get the joke. Who is Paul Finebaum?

A sportswriter and sports radio personality (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Finebaum) (does some TV, too) who made his name as a so-called "expert" on the Southeastern Conference. To my observation, there is some general perception that his expertise has slipped over the years, at least as he has become increasingly embedded in the Worldwide Leader.

[MChambers]

A sportswriter and sports radio personality (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Finebaum) (does some TV, too) who made his name as a so-called "expert" on the Southeastern Conference. To my observation, there is some general perception that his expertise has slipped over the years, at least as he has become increasingly embedded in the Worldwide Leader.

My father was a lawyer too and once when I was a kid, he told me he was going out of town for a meeting with the SEC. I said, incredulously, "The Southeastern Conference?"

[PackMan97]

Not directly related to the Nike scandal (other than everybody does it)....

NC State has stopped (as of August 2018) making payments to Mark Gottfried as part of his termination. NC State has declined to comment on the matter, but I can only assume it's related to the Adidas/Early/Dennis Smith Jr issues.

https://www.newsobserver.com/sports/article228417824.html

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

I think the premise is that the value of tuition, room and board is miniscule compared to the true market value of the services of the top athletes plus the amount they could command in endorsements.

There's a billion other threads about this. Let's not go down that road right here.

[BLPOG]

Two - why aren't more people bothered by the fact that under-the-table payments result in tax evasion, and that the rest of us effectively pay more taxes as a result? [either rates could be lower, deficits/debt could be lower, purchasing power of the dollar higher etc etc].

I think it just doesn't occur to most people.

On the other hand, some people consider tax evasion to be commendable behavior.

[swood1000]

There's a billion other threads about this. Let's not go down that road right here.
The official thread for that is The Pay the Players Debate.

[BandAlum83]

You have that right.



I don't think it has been explained yet. Apparently the police and the mayor (Rahm Emanuel) are not happy.

The double jeopardy part was a joke. Trials conducted by the media don't count ;)

[BandAlum83]

Two - why aren't more people bothered by the fact that under-the-table payments result in tax evasion, and that the rest of us effectively pay more taxes as a result? [either rates could be lower, deficits/debt could be lower, purchasing power of the dollar higher etc etc].

In addition to the tax evasion by the recipient, odds are it is also tax fraud by the payor as a tax deductible business expense of some sort.

[MartyClark]

Avenatti is one self destructive dude. He's become an NFL lawyer, his law license is "not for long".

[OldPhiKap]

I used to be an SEC specialist. In general, being investigated, even if you're cooperating, doesn't have to be disclosed. Usually, you don't have to disclose unless there is a pending proceeding (actual court case, not just an investigation). If you have reached an agreement to settle the case, you'd have to disclose that, but that's not the case here, apparently.

Sometimes, companies will choose to disclose, but Avenatti seems to think it's required.

This is exactly right.

(And I doubt Avenatti reviewed the 10-K’s anyway. He is, um, not a great representative for our profession)

[53n206]

This is exactly right.

(And I doubt Avenatti reviewed the 10-K’s anyway. He is, um, not a great representative for our profession)

I thought he graduated top of hi class.

[moonpie23]

cryptic message naming Duke (https://thespun.com/more/top-stories/michael-avenatti-duke-ncaa-scandal-twitter?fbclid=IwAR11eYJTz953rF9nt2c55ZPp2Fu3xpmir kN4wFq5afgExk53pJoHFOkwU5g?utm_source=Constant%20C ontact%20Email&utm_medium=Email)

[Tooold]

cryptic message naming Duke (https://thespun.com/more/top-stories/michael-avenatti-duke-ncaa-scandal-twitter?fbclid=IwAR11eYJTz953rF9nt2c55ZPp2Fu3xpmir kN4wFq5afgExk53pJoHFOkwU5g?utm_source=Constant%20C ontact%20Email&utm_medium=Email)

That’s as cryptic as you can get

[Kfanarmy]

You have that right.



I don't think it has been explained yet. Apparently the police and the mayor (Rahm Emanuel) are not happy.


Based on reporting today, and his public statement, I hope the feds do get involved.

[aGDevil2k]

That’s as cryptic as you can get

That man is as big of an ambulance chaser as I have ever seen.

[PackMan97]

In addition to the tax evasion by the recipient, odds are it is also tax fraud by the payor as a tax deductible business expense of some sort.

This is one of the things that has the "college admission" scandal participants in hot water. A lot of them "donated" to the ringleaders "charity" and claimed it on their taxes. As we all know, when other things may be hard to prove the IRS is very good at getting tax evasion and related charges to stick.

[Atlanta Duke]

cryptic message naming Duke (https://thespun.com/more/top-stories/michael-avenatti-duke-ncaa-scandal-twitter?fbclid=IwAR11eYJTz953rF9nt2c55ZPp2Fu3xpmir kN4wFq5afgExk53pJoHFOkwU5g?utm_source=Constant%20C ontact%20Email&utm_medium=Email)

Would not be the first time Avenatti is just throwing chum in the water.

USA Today article speculates on the source of Avenatti's information - no reported connection between that individual and Duke recruits.

[The indictment] did contain a rather interesting reference to his client, who was described as an AAU coach in California whose program had recently lost its Nike affiliation and sponsorship.

Within minutes, coaches and others within the basketball industry pointed to Gary Franklin, Sr., who runs the California Supreme program. ESPN, citing sources, has reported that Franklin is the coach in question. ...

Both Ayton and Bol Bol, the players referenced by Avenatti, played for Cal Supreme as well as current NBA players Solomon Hill, Aaron Holiday and De’Anthony Melton.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/college/columnist/dan-wolken/2019/03/26/college-basketball-why-michael-avenatti-capable-hurting-sport/3281016002/

[CameronBornAndBred]

Dude better have some serious solid proof of all the accusations he's making, otherwise I don't see how he isn't facing a ton of libel lawsuits on top of his federal charges.

[swood1000]

Take your pick:


“I’m not gonna get into the specifics of this,” Avenatti explained. “But what I will say is the way this has been framed is not accurate. It’s just not accurate. And in fact, from the very first moment that we had any meeting with Nike, we made it clear that under no circumstances would we participate in anything that did not require full disclosure to investigators and the federal government.”


"If [Nike] wants to have one confidential settlement and we're done, they can buy that for $22.5 million and we're done," Avenatti is quoted as saying. "Full confidentiality, we ride off into the sunset."

[unclsam1]

Dude better have some serious solid proof of all the accusations he's making, otherwise I don't see how he isn't facing a ton of libel lawsuits on top of his federal charges.

Remembering the credibility of some of his clients, e.g. Julie Swetnick with allegations of drugging with spiked punch and gang rape.

[Indoor66]

What good is a civil suit? The guy is broke and possibly headed for jail.

[MartyClark]

What good is a civil suit? The guy is broke and possibly headed for jail.

Good question. I suspect, but obviously don't know, that he has hidden assets. Good possibility of book and movie (this has HBO movie written all over it) income in the future.

[Indoor66]

Good question. I suspect, but obviously don't know, that he has hidden assets. Good possibility of book and movie (this has HBO movie written all over it) income in the future.

Bankruptcy court will have priority.

[MCFinARL]

Good question. I suspect, but obviously don't know, that he has hidden assets. Good possibility of book and movie (this has HBO movie written all over it) income in the future.

It is also possible people/companies/institutions who can afford it would bring libel suits simply to defend their reputations, even if they don't expect to make any money in damages.

[CameronBornAndBred]

It is also possible people/companies/institutions who can afford it would bring libel suits simply to defend their reputations, even if they don't expect to make any money in damages.

Exactly. That was the reasoning behind my post. Nike doesn't need Avenatti's pennies, but I can see them and others defending themselves against his accusations. If he doesn't have the paper to back up his claims, someone will be taking him to court to at the very least have him rescind his statements.

[DrChainsaw]

Exactly. That was the reasoning behind my post. Nike doesn't need Avenatti's pennies, but I can see them and others defending themselves against his accusations. If he doesn't have the paper to back up his claims, someone will be taking him to court to at the very least have him rescind his statements.

Plus the satisfaction of reducing him to a mere stain on the bottom of a pair of Air Jordan's.

[Billy Dat]

Pete Thamel of Yahoo tried to ask K about this at the end of today's Sweet 16 press conference and K said, "Nothing, there is nothing there."

[Tooold]

Pete Thamel of Yahoo tried to ask K about this at the end of today's Sweet 16 press conference and K said, "Nothing, there is nothing there."
I loved that comment. He completely shut it down, even though Thamel tried to ask it two different ways.

[CameronBornAndBred]

I loved that comment. He completely shut it down, even though Thamel tried to ask it two different ways.

"Ahh, well you since you asked twice, I'll give you the truth this time. Sorry for not being blatantly honest the first time you missed it."

[Tooold]

"Ahh, well you since you asked twice, I'll give you the truth this time. Sorry for not being blatantly honest the first time you missed it."
Thamel, “given your relationship with Nike, what are your thoughts on...”
Coach “none”
Thamel, “but since Duke was mentioned...”
Coach “none. There’s nothing there. Nothing”

Paraphrased. He’s very good. As if he’s done this before.

[terrih]

Ugh. He tweeted more tonight. I don’t know how to include a picture so copying and pasting 2 tweets where he referenced Duke.

“I almost forgot - long day - @DukeMBB can you also have your close friends at @Nike check their Nike Vendor Portal for payments to “Sharonda Sampson Consulting”. Just search 2016 to the present. Appreciate it.”

“.@DukeMBB - About this denial by Coach K the other day relating to payments by Nike...Can you please ask Zion Williamson’s mother - Sharonda Sampson - whether she was paid by @nike for bogus “consulting services” in 2016/17 as part of a Nike bribe to get Zion to go to Duke? Thx.”

[proelitedota]

Ugh. He tweeted more tonight. I don’t know how to include a picture so copying and pasting 2 tweets where he referenced Duke.

“I almost forgot - long day - @DukeMBB can you also have your close friends at @Nike check their Nike Vendor Portal for payments to “Sharonda Sampson Consulting”. Just search 2016 to the present. Appreciate it.”

“.@DukeMBB - About this denial by Coach K the other day relating to payments by Nike...Can you please ask Zion Williamson’s mother - Sharonda Sampson - whether she was paid by @nike for bogus “consulting services” in 2016/17 as part of a Nike bribe to get Zion to go to Duke? Thx.”

It'll be pretty funny when we find out that the NCAA already knew about this and already cleared it.

[richardjackson199]

Ugh. He tweeted more tonight. I don’t know how to include a picture so copying and pasting 2 tweets where he referenced Duke.

“I almost forgot - long day - @DukeMBB can you also have your close friends at @Nike check their Nike Vendor Portal for payments to “Sharonda Sampson Consulting”. Just search 2016 to the present. Appreciate it.”

“.@DukeMBB - About this denial by Coach K the other day relating to payments by Nike...Can you please ask Zion Williamson’s mother - Sharonda Sampson - whether she was paid by @nike for bogus “consulting services” in 2016/17 as part of a Nike bribe to get Zion to go to Duke? Thx.”

Ugh is right. Ugh. Ugh. Ugh. :(

[SavDukeGrad]

Ugh is right. Ugh. Ugh. Ugh. :(

I agree... Ugh

I would like to point out however that Zion’s final list of schools included 3 other Nike schools (UNC, Kentucky, and Clemson) along with Kansas (Adidas) and South Carolina (Under Armour).

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

This makes me uneasy. I hope it is cleared up soon.

[left_hook_lacey]

Not a good feeling being on this end of thsr kind kind of rumor. But didn't coach and/or Duke release a statement back when Zion was first mentioned in this ordeal that they went above and beyond to vet Zions eligibility? If so, I think that's good enough for me. Just awkward feeling

[uh_no]

Not a good feeling being on this end of thsr kind kind of rumor. But didn't coach and/or Duke release a statement back when Zion was first mentioned in this ordeal that they went above and beyond to vet Zions eligibility? If so, I think that's good enough for me. Just awkward feeling

unfortunately in the eyes of the NCAA and the public, it doesn't matter how much vetting duke did.

Lets also remember that this is still with a grain of salt, and this guy is NOT a reputable character

[Mike Corey]

Not a good feeling being on this end of thsr kind kind of rumor. But didn't coach and/or Duke release a statement back when Zion was first mentioned in this ordeal that they went above and beyond to vet Zions eligibility? If so, I think that's good enough for me. Just awkward feeling

Is this what you're referencing? (https://www.newsobserver.com/sports/article220170485.html).

"In men’s basketball, for the past several summers, Duke compliance officials, top recruits and their families have engaged in and cooperated fully with the NCAA Eligibility Center’s enhanced amateurism certification process. Duke works closely with the NCAA and the Atlantic Coast Conference on all compliance and eligibility matters. As we have stated in the past, we have an uncompromising commitment to compliance in athletics.”

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Is this what you're referencing? (https://www.newsobserver.com/sports/article220170485.html).

"In men’s basketball, for the past several summers, Duke compliance officials, top recruits and their families have engaged in and cooperated fully with the NCAA Eligibility Center’s enhanced amateurism certification process. Duke works closely with the NCAA and the Atlantic Coast Conference on all compliance and eligibility matters. As we have stated in the past, we have an uncompromising commitment to compliance in athletics.”

That is reassuring, but sure sounds like boilerplate text.

[PackMan97]

It'll be pretty funny when we find out that the NCAA already knew about this and already cleared it.

"Don't forget we were cleared by the NCAA as well"
-signed all the Carolina fans

[ndkjr70]

It’s truly amazing watching the mental midgets at IC and reddit tie themselves into knots trying to say “This is a moron and you can’t trust anything he says” while simultaneously saying “I knew duke paid for Zion I knew it all along.”

[devildeac]

It’s truly amazing watching the mental midgets at IC and reddit tie themselves into knots trying to say “This is a moron and you can’t trust anything he says” while simultaneously saying “I knew duke paid for Zion I knew it all along.”

You can't spell sanctimonious without u, n and c.

[proelitedota]

This makes me uneasy. I hope it is cleared up soon.

Worst case is that he is ineligible and we would have to forfeit his games. We would be one of many schools that would have to vacate games due to the rampant corruption caused by Nike and Adidas.

[uh_no]

Worst case is that he is ineligible and we would have to forfeit his games. We would be one of many schools that would have to vacate games due to the rampant corruption caused by Nike and Adidas.

i think it's naive to think that would be the only fallout for duke. the fall in public perception especially for K would be huge.

[Indoor66]

Yeah. The sanctimonious crowd would go crazy.

[roywhite]

Worst case is that he is ineligible and we would have to forfeit his games. We would be one of many schools that would have to vacate games due to the rampant corruption caused by Nike and Adidas.


i think it's naive to think that would be the only fallout for duke. the fall in public perception especially for K would be huge.

Yikes. Why go there?

Whom should we trust?
Michael Avenatti or Michael Krzyzewski?

[uh_no]

Yikes. Why go there?

Whom should we trust?
Michael Avenatti or Michael Krzyzewski?

it's a hypothetical. check up-thread, I was quite explicit that I don't much trust this guy.

[proelitedota]

i think it's naive to think that would be the only fallout for duke. the fall in public perception especially for K would be huge.

I really don't care about perception. If I did I wouldn't be following Duke basketball. As long as we did and keep on doing things the right way, that's all that matters.

If anything the bigger effect of vacating Zion's games would be a renewed fervor on debates over athletes being able to profit on their likeness.

[sagegrouse]

Worst case is that he is ineligible and we would have to forfeit his games. We would be one of many schools that would have to vacate games due to the rampant corruption caused by Nike and Adidas.

Au contraire. This would be a huge hit on everyone's rep: Duke, Duke basketball, K and Zion. I don't believe such allegations are true.

One of the ways Duke seems to work is that our compliance office talks to the NCAA compliance officials often and about everything. Why not, the NCAA guys and gals are paid to do something -- they might as well give advice?

Moreover, Duke reportedly put in place an $8 million policy (on Zion's health, payable if injury caused Zion to drop too far in the draft). This is allowed under NCAA rules. Per USA Today on Feb. 21:


According to The Action Network, citing sources, Williamson's policy stipulates that he can collect $8 million if he is selected past the 16th pick in June’s NBA Draft. That loss-of-value insurance is typically added to disability insurance, which can pay out between $10 million and $15 million if a player suffers a career-ending injury.

And you can take it to the bank, in terms of borrowing by the family until the big paydays arrive, which ain't very far away. All perfectly legal -- to courts of law, the NCAA and -- natch -- my home state of SC.

[proelitedota]

Duke is officially looking into these allegations according to ESPN.

[Atlanta Duke]

Yahoo Sports posted an article this afternoon by Pat Forde, Pete Thamel and Dan Wetzel on Avennati doing a document dump alleging evidence of approximately $170,000 in cash delivered to people connected to players including Deandre Ayton, Bol Bol and Brandon McCoy.

Apparently no documents in support of Avennati's tweets alleging a consulting agreement between Nike and Zion's mother Shaondra Sampson.

Nike declines to respond to Avennati's allegations, only stating to Yahoo Sports that “Nike firmly believes in ethical and fair play, both in business and sports and won’t be commenting further beyond our statement.” :rolleyes:

https://sports.yahoo.com/michael-avenatti-releases-documents-alleging-nike-paid-families-of-top-college-basketball-recruits-172552969.html

Maybe it is just because I am still bummed about Duke losing last Sunday, but between the shoe company allegations and the upcoming demise of one and done this Final Four has a Last Days of Pompeii vibe to me.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Worst case is that he is ineligible and we would have to forfeit his games. We would be one of many schools that would have to vacate games due to the rampant corruption caused by Nike and Adidas.

I don't like that one bit. Would make me rethink a lot of things.

[proelitedota]

I don't like that one bit. Would make me rethink a lot of things.

There is always this chance when we recruit 4 and 5 stars. We do our due diligence and have to live with the risk.

[HereBeforeCoachK]

Duke is officially looking into these allegations according to ESPN.

I'm a little peeved with the headline to the Wiseman article.......(he probably didn't do the headline...) it says Zion is being investigated. That's not really true, so far.

[cspan37421]

Is this a situation which, if true, suggest Nike as the (potential) malefactor and not Duke? In a legal sense, another surprising case where the school can play the victim card in terms of "deprived of honest services" or some such legal construct?

In any case, sure hope no one we hold in high esteem behaved in a way that would change our opinion.

[I added "potential" because I don't know the rules about whether Nike can hire a recruit's family member as a contractor or consultant, etc. Also, if they did, with an eye toward steering said recruit, would they try to steer them to a specific school, or just a "Nike" school, presumably a high-profile one (of which there are a few)?]

[dukelifer]

Is this a situation which, if true, suggest Nike as the (potential) malefactor and not Duke? In a legal sense, another surprising case where the school can play the victim card in terms of "deprived of honest services" or some such legal construct?

In any case, sure hope no one we hold in high esteem behaved in a way that would change our opinion.

[I added "potential" because I don't know the rules about whether Nike can hire a recruit's family member as a contractor or consultant, etc. Also, if they did, with an eye toward steering said recruit, would they try to steer them to a specific school, or just a "Nike" school, presumably a high-profile one (of which there are a few)?]

I don’t know the rules but it makes you wonder why a shoe company cannot hire a parent of a top recruit. I can only see a problem if the University arranged it.

[pfrduke]

How is this different than the news that came out last year about Marvin’s dad getting extra money from Nike for his AAU team (or something like that - I don’t fully remember the details)?

[proelitedota]

I don’t know the rules but it makes you wonder why a shoe company cannot hire a parent of a top recruit. I can only see a problem if the University arranged it.

They can. Bagley's father was hired to be the coach of an AAU team.

[weezie]

Didn't think I could feel any worse about not being in Minny.

But whaddya know, I do.

[BigZ]

I’d be banned if I gave my opinion on What needs to happen to Avenatti

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

There is always this chance when we recruit 4 and 5 stars. We do our due diligence and have to live with the risk.

I disagree. I love Zion, I love watching him, I will continue to enjoy watching him at the next level.

However... We should not take risks like this if it becomes what it appears to be.

[freshmanjs]

I disagree. I love Zion, I love watching him, I will continue to enjoy watching him at the next level.

However... We should not take risks like this if it becomes what it appears to be.

What does it appear to be?

[proelitedota]

What does it appear to be?

Vacated season.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Vacated season.

That will change the way I see our beloved program.

[scottdude8]

Vacated season.

I don’t think there’s ANY reason to start catastrophising and even talking about that as a possibility. There is ONE TWEET of evidence right now. I think some restraint needs to be exercised on everyone’s part right now.

[freshmanjs]

Vacated season.


That will change the way I see our beloved program.

Surprised some here are so quick to jump to conclusions. Even if she took a consulting job with Nike, it's not at all clear that is a violation or would mean he was ineligible.

[proelitedota]

That will change the way I see our beloved program.

Why? Did we do anything wrong? Did Zion do anything wrong?

It's the risk we all knew that happens with recruiting 4* and 5*. Even K admitted that there is always this risk.

When was the last time that a team won without at least some 4* recruits.

[sagegrouse]

I don't like that one bit. Would make me rethink a lot of things.


There is always this chance when we recruit 4 and 5 stars. We do our due diligence and have to live with the risk.

Duke went through an NCAA pre-screen on Zion and got a clean bill of health. Moreover, we have parent and family counseling sessions before school starts. I think there's some hysteria in this thread. Of course, in other threads, c'est moi....

[Dr. Rosenrosen]

Duke went through an NCAA pre-screen on Zion and got a clean bill of health. Moreover, we have parent and family counseling sessions before school starts. I think there's some hysteria in this thread. Of course, in other threads, c'est moi...
Well, it is the off-season for DBR... :eek:

[heyman25]

Avenatti is one of the most dishonest lawyers in the USA. NCAA is dishonest as well. What a waste of time and money for this investigation.

[JetpackJesus]

That will change the way I see our beloved program.

I don't think anyone should change the way they see things based on something proelitedota says.

[ndkjr70]

Vacated season.

If I read DBR without any usernames attached to the posts, I could pick your posts out in ten seconds.

[frb]

as long as no one at duke knew about it, what is the scandal? if this is even true. remember the source!

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

I don't think anyone should change the way they see things based on something proelitedota says.

Yeah, that's not what I'm saying at all.

I am probably naive, but I enjoy imagining that Duke is one of the only programs that does things the right way. If I learn otherwise, I will rethink my relationship with college basketball.

[Indoor66]

Vacated season.

My Grandfather always told me: "Don't borrow trouble. Wait for it."

[rsvman]

My Grandfather always told me: "Don't borrow trouble. Wait for it."

Your grandfather was a wise man.

[BD80]

Zero evidence, zero.

Avenetti backed out of an interview and instead "dumped" documents that were already expected to exist.

How would he have records of Nike payments to Zion's mom? If, as alleged, there was no middleman, he would have no access to the records.

This is a classic sleazy ploy, include unsupported allegations with allegations you can support, and they "withhold" the supposed evidence of the unsupported allegations. If these were true (see here's the proof) then these must be true too!

Why would he withhold the supporting evidence? What does it gain him?

I guess we should believe him because of his history of honesty. Why would he lie now?

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Zero evidence, zero.

Avenetti backed out of an interview and instead "dumped" documents that were already expected to exist.

How would he have records of Nike payments to Zion's mom? If, as alleged, there was no middleman, he would have no access to the records.

This is a classic sleazy ploy, include unsupported allegations with allegations you can support, and they "withhold" the supposed evidence of the unsupported allegations. If these were true (see here's the proof) then these must be true too!

Why would he withhold the supporting evidence? What does it gain him?

I guess we should believe him because of his history of honesty. Why would he lie now?

What is his conceivable motivation, though?

[uh_no]

What is his conceivable motivation, though?

attention

[wavedukefan70s]

Avenatti is one of the most dishonest lawyers in the USA. NCAA is dishonest as well. What a waste of time and money for this investigation.

Why cant Duke go after him?damage to the institutions reputation ect.

[Dr. Rosenrosen]

What is his conceivable motivation, though?
Psychosis

[AGDukesky]

Did I miss something that implicated someone from Duke doing anything wrong? This seems similar to the Maggette situation, which was hardly a bad reflection on Duke. This is a Nike issue that could impact Duke but shouldn’t change anyone’s view of the school...

[richardjackson199]

What is his conceivable motivation, though?

Extortion? Hush money?

[HereBeforeCoachK]

What is his conceivable motivation, though?

If you knew much about Avenatti, you wouldn't find this question difficult, IMHO...

Just a few off top of head;

A: Avenatti is a media whore, and Zion/Duke get attention.
B: Avenatti is known to bring up issues to take the focus off his own misdoings.
C: He's a clinical psychopath.
D: he's a known extortionist.

Etc...

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

If you knew much about Avenatti, you wouldn't find this question difficult, IMHO...

Thanks for the condescending tone, but I am familiar with him and his antics.

If you are suggesting that he's just looking for attention, I simply don't buy it. It would be a simply stupid to make these specific statements without any evidence.

He tried playing his hand to get money from Nike and failed. So there's not a carrot there. I'm not naive enough to think he's just trying to spread useful information for the betterment of the sport.

So, if we are to assume this is misinformation, what is his angle?

[weezie]

I'm wondering how Nike continues to taint the brand with this lack of oversight over who works/negotiates/bribes for them. Hasn't Nike achieved world domination? Why is there still this possible payola surfacing?

They definitely eat their cake yet continue to come out smelling like roses. Where are the Nike lawyers in this? Can they seriously be posturing to let K and Duke take the fall for their complete disregard of the food chain of where Nike money goes?

Their bag men are playing both ends, taking cuts while crying for more money to make more deals? There's a complete lack of control, just tossing money into the wood chipper.

Someone under suspicion approaches Avenatti the Scum and says, here ya go, we're paying you to blast this info across Twitter because you are a useful fool.

Avenatti has surrendered his passport, hasn't he?

[freshmanjs]

Thanks for the condescending tone, but I am familiar with him and his antics.

If you are suggesting that he's just looking for attention, I simply don't buy it. It would be a simply stupid to make these specific statements without any evidence.

He tried playing his hand to get money from Nike and failed. So there's not a carrot there. I'm not naive enough to think he's just trying to spread useful information for the betterment of the sport.

So, if we are to assume this is misinformation, what is his angle?

Well, it is already 100% certain that he is "simply stupid" about this, since he is probably going to prison for a long time because of it. Again, there is no reason to think that whatever they paid her (if anything) is illegal or a violation or even wrong in some moral sense. There are a range of possibilities. Misinformation is one. Implying that information means something it doesn't mean is another (like lots of people did with the Bagley situation). His angle is sensationalism, especially now that his plan totally backfired. Again, not sure why you are so quick to believe the worst about Duke based on what he says and you seem to ignore what our coach and AD have said.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Well, it is already 100% certain that he is "simply stupid" about this, since he is probably going to prison for a long time because of it. Again, there is no reason to think that whatever they paid her (if anything) is illegal or a violation or even wrong in some moral sense. There are a range of possibilities. Misinformation is one. Implying that information means something it doesn't mean is another (like lots of people did with the Bagley situation). His angle is sensationalism, especially now that his plan totally backfired. Again, not sure why you are so quick to believe the worst about Duke based on what he says and you seem to ignore what our coach and AD have said.

No, no, no, I haven't once said I believe this. I am flummoxed about what the motivations are if this is all bluster. AND, I have stated that if this is in fact true, I will incredibly disillusioned with our program, regardless of whether it falls within the rules of the NCAA.

Of course I am waiting for the truth - especially considering how dubious the source is. I am also not so blinded by Duke blue as to not see that there's certainly a possibility of this being true, and if so, "everyone does it," won't make me feel any better.

I know we will never be able to prove a negative, but I would be completely satisfied and happy if no evidence of these allegations come to light.

[HereBeforeCoachK]

Thanks for the condescending tone, but I am familiar with him and his antics.

If you are suggesting that he's just looking for attention, I simply don't buy it. It would be a simply stupid to make these specific statements without any evidence.


I was not being condescending, not on purpose anyway - but I remain of the opinion that you really are hesitant to believe about Avenatti what I think is obvious.He's done ten stupid things in the past six months.

[freshmanjs]

No, no, no, I haven't once said I believe this. I am flummoxed about what the motivations are if this is all bluster. AND, I have stated that if this is in fact true, I will incredibly disillusioned with our program, regardless of whether it falls within the rules of the NCAA.

Of course I am waiting for the truth - especially considering how dubious the source is. I am also not so blinded by Duke blue as to not see that there's certainly a possibility of this being true, and if so, "everyone does it," won't make me feel any better.

I know we will never be able to prove a negative, but I would be completely satisfied and happy if no evidence of these allegations come to light.

Gotcha. I still encourage you to consider the possibility that what is being alleged may be true and also not a problem, either in letter of the rules or in any other way.

[devildeac]

Apologies in advance if someone has already linked this but JD (that's JDK, not Javin DeLaurier;)) has a good summary on the Home Page:

https://www.dukebasketballreport.com/2019/4/7/18296438/questions-raised-about-nike-zion-williamsons-mother-duke-basketball

[-jk]

Apologies in advance if someone has already linked this but JD (that's JDK, not Javin DeLaurier;)) has a good summary on the Home Page:

https://www.dukebasketballreport.com/2019/4/7/18296438/questions-raised-about-nike-zion-williamsons-mother-duke-basketball

JDK. JDL. Close...

-j "nope, nary a 'D'" k

[buddy]

The NCAA has already determined that they are not qualified to determine if a college course meets proper academic standards as long as the "university" says the course does meet its standards. Courses available to the general student population cannot be an "impermissible benefit" if also offered to "student athletes". (Or maybe it's the other way around.) The NCAA is probably even less capable of determining if a "consulting contract" is for actual consulting or is a form of payola. And if parents of students in the general student population can obtain such contracts with Nike, why cannot parents of prospective student athletes? Should the NCAA attempt to ban parents of potential student athletes from the types of economic endeavors available to the general population I think they would face massive legal liability. I do not know what, if anything, happened here. But Zion's mother is a former athlete, and certainly Nike's (and other shoe companies) business model envisions utilizing former athletes to advise on the suitability of products as well as product development. Far more likely for Nike to consult with former athletes than former bassoon players.

I sure hope there was no "wink, wink, nod, nod" activity going on between Nike and Duke, but I am not particularly concerned about vacated wins or any other punishment. I would be disappointed if it could be shown that K was involved in such activity. Just because Avenatti is charged with numerous crimes of moral turpitude doesn't mean he doesn't have the goods here (even a stopped watch is right twice a day), but I believe a certain scepticism is warranted unless and until underlying substantive evidence is produced.

[MChambers]

Why cant Duke go after him?damage to the institutions reputation ect.

But all that would do is keep this story in the media longer, so I don't see why Duke would do it.

[oldnavy]

Also consider that Zion wasn't ZION when this allegedly took place. He was less heralded than a couple of his classmates...

[SavDukeGrad]

Also consider that Zion wasn't ZION when this allegedly took place. He was less heralded than a couple of his classmates...

Agree. Also consider that there were lots of Nike schools recruiting him. This allegedly took place in 2016 - 2017 (if true, and that’s a really big IF). Zion didn’t even commit to Duke until January, 2018. Not sure exactly what something that happened in 2016 - 2017 would have to do with Duke, other than the fact that he eventually played for Duke.

I should add though that I believe absolutely nothing that Michael Aventatti says. IMO he’s a sleaze who’s furious with Nike for not paying up and turning him in. He’s going down swinging, trying to take Nike with him.

I do wonder what his client (remember his client, the one he was supposed to be working for, the AAU coach, the little guy whom he was supposedly trying to help) thinks of all this? I can’t imagine he wanted all these players to be caught in the crossfire.

[BandAlum83]

I don’t think there’s ANY reason to start catastrophising and even talking about that as a possibility. There is ONE TWEET of evidence right now. I think some restraint needs to be exercised on everyone’s part right now.

One tweet of ALLEGATION, no “evidence”

[BandAlum83]

I'm wondering how Nike continues to taint the brand with this lack of oversight over who works/negotiates/bribes for them. Hasn't Nike achieved world domination? Why is there still this possible payola surfacing?

They definitely eat their cake yet continue to come out smelling like roses. Where are the Nike lawyers in this? Can they seriously be posturing to let K and Duke take the fall for their complete disregard of the food chain of where Nike money goes?

Their bag men are playing both ends, taking cuts while crying for more money to make more deals? There's a complete lack of control, just tossing money into the wood chipper.

Someone under suspicion approaches Avenatti the Scum and says, here ya go, we're paying you to blast this info across Twitter because you are a useful fool.

Avenatti has surrendered his passport, hasn't he?

You went deep into the well of cliche and metaphor for this one, weezie.

Talk about being a volume shooter!

[AustinDevil]

[I]f parents of students in the general student population can obtain such contracts with Nike, why cannot parents of prospective student athletes? Should the NCAA attempt to ban parents of potential student athletes from the types of economic endeavors available to the general population I think they would face massive legal liability.

I think this is right, and it depends on the hired parent having a skill set that plausibly satisfies the contract. It is not dissimilar to parents of highly recruited athletes who have coaching skills sometimes being hired by one of the schools doing the recruiting.

Is there also not another layer here before anyone should be talking about vacating the season? For Zion to be ineligible, isn't his involvement, and not just his parent's, somehow required? At least if I am recalling the Cam Newton issues correctly.*



*Not that I am equating Duke and Auburn, or suggesting that Duke will need to rely on this line of defense. Going to take a shower now.

[rocketeli]

The NCAA has already determined that they are not qualified to determine if a college course meets proper academic standards as long as the "university" says the course does meet its standards. Courses available to the general student population cannot be an "impermissible benefit" if also offered to "student athletes". (Or maybe it's the other way around.) The NCAA is probably even less capable of determining if a "consulting contract" is for actual consulting or is a form of payola. And if parents of students in the general student population can obtain such contracts with Nike, why cannot parents of prospective student athletes? Should the NCAA attempt to ban parents of potential student athletes from the types of economic endeavors available to the general population I think they would face massive legal liability. I do not know what, if anything, happened here. But Zion's mother is a former athlete, and certainly Nike's (and other shoe companies) business model envisions utilizing former athletes to advise on the suitability of products as well as product development. Far more likely for Nike to consult with former athletes than former bassoon players.

I sure hope there was no "wink, wink, nod, nod" activity going on between Nike and Duke, but I am not particularly concerned about vacated wins or any other punishment. I would be disappointed if it could be shown that K was involved in such activity. Just because Avenatti is charged with numerous crimes of moral turpitude doesn't mean he doesn't have the goods here (even a stopped watch is right twice a day), but I believe a certain scepticism is warranted unless and until underlying substantive evidence is produced.

This is what I was going to post. Duke should probably (internally) check around to make sure there are no smoking guns, but the best course of action would be to assume that this has nothing to do with them, which it doesn't. Duke doesn't run or control Nike, and we don't pay them bribe money, they pay us. If someone whose kid goes to Duke works for Nike, well, again that's their business.

[sagegrouse]

You went deep into the well of cliche and metaphor for this one, weezie.

Talk about being a volume shooter!

Weezie, most def, "took it to another level."

[UrinalCake]

Has anybody actually gone and Googled whatever it was the guy actually said to Google?

[proelitedota]

Usually stuff like this gets cleared up really quick. Duke posts these findings within 24 hours.

The fact that it has taken this long means that there is something more complicated in this instance.

Does the NCAA compliance dept takes the weekend off?

[devildeac]

Has anybody actually gone and Googled whatever it was the guy actually said to Google?

Here's one article from the Charlotte/"u"nc Observer from last fall:

https://www.charlotteobserver.com/sports/college/article220131085.html

"Kansas assistant coach Kurtis Townsend discussed financial requests of the family of Duke freshman Zion Williamson during a phone call with one of the defendants in the Adidas college basketball corruption trial, according to a defense argument made in court Tuesday."

And, an Avenatti tweet that looks like it's from today:

"And yet @Nike wants the world to believe he went to Duke and they never paid him. They should admit to the bribes paid to over 100 players but instead, they cover-up and deflect."

Quoted FWIW.

Edit: Here's the Avenatti tweet from 4/5:


"Michael Avenatti
✔ @MichaelAvenatti



.@DukeMBB - About this denial by Coach K the other day relating to payments by Nike...Can you please ask Zion Williamson’s mother - Sharonda Sampson - whether she was paid by @nike for bogus “consulting services” in 2016/17 as part of a Nike bribe to get Zion to go to Duke? Thx."

[Dr. Rosenrosen]

Usually stuff like this gets cleared up really quick. Duke posts these findings within 24 hours.

The fact that it has taken this long means that there is something more complicated in this instance.

Does the NCAA compliance dept takes the weekend off?
“Usually” doesn’t mean “always” and that seems like quite a generalization to make in the first place. On what specifically do you base your statement regarding the amount of time to “clear up” “stuff like this?”

[Nugget]

Agree. Also consider that there were lots of Nike schools recruiting him. This allegedly took place in 2016 - 2017 (if true, and that’s a really big IF). Zion didn’t even commit to Duke until January, 2018. Not sure exactly what something that happened in 2016 - 2017 would have to do with Duke, other than the fact that he eventually played for Duke.

Excellent points. I'd offer some amplification (and then respond to others on the the thread) with:

1. Avenatti's allegation is that Nike paid Zion's mother for [allegedly] 'bogus consulting services' in 2016/2017."

Assuming for a moment that this was factually true (and, given Avenatti's history, it may well not be):

A. it would only be (technically) improper if the payments were for "bogus" consulting services. As others have mentioned, and was detailed earlier this year in the Portland Oregonian stories, it was permissible for Nike to pay (for example) Marvin Bagley's father certain funds in connection with his running an AAU team. While that kind of arrangement is ethically questionable, it is technically permissible, so long as it's not a quid pro quo for the player's commitment to either Nike as a brand or a Nike school. So, one would need to know whether (assuming a payment was made) whether there were valid "consulting services."

B. Presumably, the primary purpose of such a payment in "2016/2017" -- long before Zion was choosing a college -- would have been to lure Zion's mother to get him to play for a Nike-affiliated AAU team and in the Nike EYBL. But, he didn't. He stayed with the Addidas-affiliated AAU team coached by his Step-father.

C. Avenatti's further assertion that, the purpose of the alleged payment in "2016/2017" was "part of a Nike bribe to get Zion to go to Duke" is almost assuredly false. Zion's eventual finalists included three other Nike schools (Clemson, North Carolina and Kentucky). Nike would have been neutral as to which Nike school Zion went to -- and, certainly, as of "2016/2017" would not be been pushing Duke over the others -- particularly since, at that time in "2016/2017", it was perceived IIRC as much more likely that Zion would go to Clemson, South Carolina or North Carolina than Duke.

2. If Avenatti's allegation was factually correct, then the situation would be essentially parallel to that presented for Kansas and Louisville in the recent federal trials -- i.e., "Duke University" would be the victim per the Court presentations and argument (the govt. would contend, in essence, that the University was defrauded and even if some basketball staff members had some knowledge that the player was/should have been ineligible -- for which there was, at worst, strong circumstantial evidence that some members of the Kansas and Louisville coaching staffs knew what the Addidas reps were doing -- the University itself didn't know, either because the coaches were not the authorized agents of the University for purposes of making admissions/eligibility decisions or because there was enough factual murkiness about whether the head coaches knew).

A. Whether that would lead to NCAA sanctions is currently unknown given the ongoing status of the NCAA's post-trial-release of evidence evaluations, although it seems highly likely that it will under the relatively new "it doesn't matter if you actually knew, the coach is deemed responsible anyway" standard)

3. But, even if under scenario (2), (i) Duke University were deemed the actual "victim," and (ii) Coach K wasn't involved and (iii) Duke didn't get NCAA sanctions, if Avenatti's allegation is factually correct, then it would, at best, be an extraordinary black eye for Duke and a major media firestorm against Coach K. For better or worse, Coach K is the #1 figure in college basketball and is perceived (perhaps unfairly/inaccurately) to be self-righteous about it -- everyone would be delighted to take him and Duke down, even if there are no formal sanctions.

I really hope this is factually false.

[proelitedota]

“Usually” doesn’t mean “always” and that seems like quite a generalization to make in the first place. On what specifically do you base your statement regarding the amount of time to “clear up” “stuff like this?”

The Zion / Kansas stuff broke out on the 16th of October. Duke cleared it up on the 17th.

Bagley stuff was cleared up within the same day or the very next day.

At the very least the "consulting services" information is news to the compliance department. Otherwise we would have had a response already.

The only fact that's giving me pause is that the news broke out outside of potential business hours for Duke and/or the NCAA.

[cspan37421]

The Zion / Kansas stuff broke out on the 16th of October. Duke cleared it up on the 17th.

Bagley stuff was cleared up within the same day or the very next day.

At the very least the "consulting services" information is news to the compliance department. Otherwise we would have had a response already.

The only fact that's giving me pause is that the news broke out outside of potential business hours for Duke and/or the NCAA.

It might be hard for Duke to clear up the matter if clearing it up requires information to be provided to them by outside parties who may not want to talk, and may not have to - at least not to Duke.

I like the notion of Duke relying on an NCAA eligibility clearinghouse/stamp of approval. Could serve as a sort of safe harbor, provide Duke doesn't hide anything "contradictory" on their end.

[cspan37421]

Why cant Duke go after him?damage to the institutions reputation ect.

Caution: IANAL

a) there's still time for that. They can let things play out a bit. At the very least they'd need to show his claim is false, right?
b) might be hard depending on the specific wording of his claim - which seems to involve entities other than Duke and Zion, though they are thrown in there in a hashtag-manner, which at least gets you attention.
c) not sure about the bar set for reputational damage for an institution vs. an individual. Might be harder to go after someone who just shouts "Corrupt!" toward a university than at a person (and even then, the person might need to be a nonpublic figure ... think of the invective hurled towards politicians all the time).

[howardlander]

At the very least the "consulting services" information is news to the compliance department. Otherwise we would have had a response already.



Do we know this? Are we sure Zion's Mom didn't disclose any relationship she may have had with Nike?

Howard

[weezie]

...Coach K is the #1 figure in college basketball and is perceived (perhaps unfairly/inaccurately) to be self-righteous about it -- everyone would be delighted to take him and Duke down, even if there are no formal sanctions...

I see all your excellent points in the original post but I don't get the "self-righteous," I think it's more that he's earned a measure of gravitas and most certainly the respect of his players, Duke University and even some of the less virulent haters.

Self-righteous is what Avenatti is trying on.

[PackMan97]

I see all your excellent points in the original post but I don't get the "self-righteous,"

" is perceived (perhaps unfairly/inaccurately) to be self-righteous about it"

You can not control others perceptions. They will think what they think.

[weezie]

" is perceived (perhaps unfairly/inaccurately) to be self-righteous about it"

You can not control others perceptions. They will think what they think.

Yes, good point. I read it as he is perceived as...

My family tries to tell me I can't control what they think...but I can control the tv clicker.

[moonpie23]

Has anybody actually gone and Googled whatever it was the guy actually said to Google?

And The Subliminal Surge provides some guidance..... (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kTJlWkkwydk&feature=youtu.be&fbclid=IwAR0kwMUGTgXn8qZIYzHwgiSENgCzWc69lopl-p6B4HTnSNegar27xOGVVW8) Caution NSFW (not horrible, but be careful)

[proelitedota]

Do we know this? Are we sure Zion's Mom didn't disclose any relationship she may have had with Nike?

Howard

If it was disclosed, I think the athletic department would have had a response clearing her already.

[KandG]

I see all your excellent points in the original post but I don't get the "self-righteous," I think it's more that he's earned a measure of gravitas and most certainly the respect of his players, Duke University and even some of the less virulent haters.



I think the more appropriate word is "sanctimonious", which was attached to Coach K by many detractors/haters in the '90s/early 2000s who felt he was trying too hard to attach a halo to the Duke program and his teams while they supposedly did all sorts of hypocritical things (trip players, flop, stomp on players, get all the calls blah blah blah).

One of the most notorious pieces of fuel for this nonsense was a hit piece written for ESPN by a UNC grad right after the 1999 loss, when Duke had several players go pro, and there were claims of K getting upset and using profanity behind the scenes.

I think this particularly overblown strain of criticism has diminished with K's longevity and continued breaking of records, enhanced by his USA Basketball tenure and his recruitment of one-and-dones, which has shown a side of him that's more relatable to a certain type of sports fan. (Also, and this is a subjective judgment on my part, K has improved the way he communicates with the media considerably).

But yes, K has a long track record of success and presides over one of the most successful and polarizing programs in sports. So the "sanctimonious" label, and with it the desire of others to bring him down with any whiff of scandal no matter how unfounded, will always be around, just as it with figures like Belichick, Auriemma, Brady and on and on.

[mkirsh]

I think the more appropriate word is "sanctimonious", which was attached to Coach K by many detractors/haters in the '90s/early 2000s who felt he was trying too hard to attach a halo to the Duke program and his teams while they supposedly did all sorts of hypocritical things (trip players, flop, stomp on players, get all the calls blah blah blah).

One of the most notorious pieces of fuel for this nonsense was a hit piece written for ESPN by a UNC grad right after the 1999 loss, when Duke had several players go pro, and there were claims of K getting upset and using profanity behind the scenes.

I think this particularly overblown strain of criticism has diminished with K's longevity and continued breaking of records, enhanced by his USA Basketball tenure and his recruitment of one-and-dones, which has shown a side of him that's more relatable to a certain type of sports fan. (Also, and this is a subjective judgment on my part, K has improved the way he communicates with the media considerably).

But yes, K has a long track record of success and presides over one of the most successful and polarizing programs in sports. So the "sanctimonious" label, and with it the desire of others to bring him down with any whiff of scandal no matter how unfounded, will always be around, just as it with figures like Belichick, Auriemma, Brady and on and on.

Don't forget Gregg Doyel constantly bashing K because K supposedly killed Doyel's book idea.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Don't forget Gregg Doyel constantly bashing K because K supposedly killed Doyel's book idea.

He's a massive jerk. I am fine forgetting him.

Honestly hadn't thought about him in ages. Not sure what rock he resides under now, but glad he is no longer in the CBS platform anymore. Too big a stage for his schtick.

[heyman25]

Where there is fire there is a raging BS Lying BS Artist.

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/04/11/michael-avenatti-indicted-by-federal-grand-jury-in-los-angeles.html

[Duke79UNLV77]

Where there is fire there is a raging BS Lying BS Artist.

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/04/11/michael-avenatti-indicted-by-federal-grand-jury-in-los-angeles.html

I had opposing counsel in a case get busted with spending his clients' settlement funds (not in a case against me, and not as large of numbers as with Avenatti). Besides being ordered to pay restitution and being disbarred for life, he was sentenced to 2.5-7.5 years in prison.

Avenatti, I believe, finished first in his class in law school and had some big judgments/settlements before his recent fame. I guess pride and greed cometh before quite a fall.

I hope he was full of BS with his Zion allegations, too. It does stand out that he had documents and specifics for other players, but not for Zion. I might have thought that Zion's parents would have made a denial statement by now, like Carter's parents did with the one agent meal last year, but we shall see.

[devildeac]

From the front page:

https://www.dukebasketballreport.com/2019/4/11/18306685/nike-accuser-avenatti-hit-with-massive-federal-indictment-ncaa-basketball

From the link within the link:

"Celebrity lawyer Michael Avenatti was slammed Thursday with a 36-count indictment by a federal grand jury in California that accuses him of ripping off clients— including a mentally ill paraplegic — for millions of dollars, shorting the IRS of millions more, swiping millions of dollars in employment taxes from his coffee company, and perjury."

I know, I know, innocent until proven guilty, but this guy *appears* to be quite the dirtbag.

[HereBeforeCoachK]

From the front page:

https://www.dukebasketballreport.com/2019/4/11/18306685/nike-accuser-avenatti-hit-with-massive-federal-indictment-ncaa-basketball

From the link within the link:

"Celebrity lawyer Michael Avenatti was slammed Thursday with a 36-count indictment by a federal grand jury in California that accuses him of ripping off clients— including a mentally ill paraplegic — for millions of dollars, shorting the IRS of millions more, swiping millions of dollars in employment taxes from his coffee company, and perjury."

I know, I know, innocent until proven guilty, but this guy *appears* to be quite the dirtbag.

And this is in addition to whatever the SDNY comes up with vis a vis Nike blackmail.....

[MCFinARL]

I had opposing counsel in a case get busted with spending his clients' settlement funds (not in a case against me, and not as large of numbers as with Avenatti). Besides being ordered to pay restitution and being disbarred for life, he was sentenced to 2.5-7.5 years in prison.

Avenatti, I believe, finished first in his class in law school and had some big judgments/settlements before his recent fame. I guess pride and greed cometh before quite a fall.

I hope he was full of BS with his Zion allegations, too. It does stand out that he had documents and specifics for other players, but not for Zion. I might have thought that Zion's parents would have made a denial statement by now, like Carter's parents did with the one agent meal last year, but we shall see.

Possibly the thought is that Avenatti is so lacking in credibility that it is better not to dignify the charges with a statement. It's also possible that there are circumstances too complex to address in an outright denial--for example, perhaps Zion's mother did receive some money from Nike, but it was for actual, not "bogus," services rendered--which might look a little iffy depending on the details but wouldn't necessarily affect Zion's eligibility--in which case they may feel it's easier to say nothing than to explain unless future, more specific claims mean they have to. But of course I am just guessing here.

[pfrduke]

I know, I know, innocent until proven guilty, but this guy *appears* to be quite the dirtbag.

He doesn't need to be guilty under the indictment to be guilty of being a dirtbag.

[HereBeforeCoachK]

He doesn't need to be guilty under the indictment to be guilty of being a dirtbag.

My thoughts exactly......

[devildeac]

He doesn't need to be guilty under the indictment to be guilty of being a dirtbag.

If you'd like to edit my post to reflect that, I'd be 150% in favor of that action. ;)

[CameronBornAndBred]

From the front page:

https://www.dukebasketballreport.com/2019/4/11/18306685/nike-accuser-avenatti-hit-with-massive-federal-indictment-ncaa-basketball

From the link within the link:

"Celebrity lawyer Michael Avenatti was slammed Thursday with a 36-count indictment by a federal grand jury in California that accuses him of ripping off clients— including a mentally ill paraplegic — for millions of dollars, shorting the IRS of millions more, swiping millions of dollars in employment taxes from his coffee company, and perjury."

I know, I know, innocent until proven guilty, but this guy *appears* to be quite the dirtbag.


He doesn't need to be guilty under the indictment to be guilty of being a dirtbag.

Yep! That one is indefensible. However, just because he is likely going to spend several years in jail for being a dirtbag does not make his accusations go away...although him being shed in a bad light doesn't hurt. I have no doubt that Duke is in the clear here. Nike and even maybe Zion's family gets caught up something, but regardless of who did or didn't do what, the sad truth is that just because he is a leech doesn't make the accusations go away.
Bright side...it's the offseason now. That is some seriously perfect timing.

[proelitedota]

https://deadspin.com/did-michael-avenatti-fall-for-a-hoax-invoice-claiming-t-1834011355 :rolleyes:


It’s unclear where Avenatti received his information on Bol and Ayton, but his claims about Zion Williamson claims appear to have been based in part on a bogus document. Deadspin spoke to a person who had fabricated a fake invoice for $2,125 and texted it to Avenatti. About one hour after the lawyer received the fake invoice, he fired off his tweet to Duke.

[sagegrouse]

https://deadspin.com/did-michael-avenatti-fall-for-a-hoax-invoice-claiming-t-1834011355 :rolleyes:

Please provide info with links:


It’s unclear where Avenatti received his information on Bol and Ayton, but his claims about Zion Williamson claims appear to have been based in part on a bogus document. Deadspin spoke to a person who had fabricated a fake invoice for $2,125 and texted it to Avenatti. About one hour after the lawyer received the fake invoice, he fired off his tweet to Duke.

The tipster reached out to Deadspin last Friday afternoon and shared a video that showed them opening a text message conversation they had had with Avenatti one week prior, which featured Avenatti’s cell phone number. (It matched the number I used when I called him for this story a few years ago.) They also provided the fake invoice, writing “Boston Sucks!” on it at Deadspin’s request, to show they had the same handwriting as the notes on the bottom of the invoice provided to Avenatti.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Sounds like time to put a fork in this. Thankfully.

[CameronBornAndBred]

It's a shame that Duke had to waste time (and presumably money) on investigating bogus claims that were made intentionally as a prank.

[UrinalCake]

Also a shame that the general public will continue to believe that Zion was paid based on the fabricated lie that a criminal tweeted out, and the media will continue to push that narrative because it sells clicks.

[flyingdutchdevil]

Also a shame that the general public will continue to believe that Zion was paid based on the fabricated lie that a criminal tweeted out, and the media will continue to push that narrative because it sells clicks.

You have proof of that? Also, I assume you currently live in NC and are hearing our bitter rivals bash Coach K/Zion. Pretty sure Duke fans would do the exact same thing if a similar tweet came out saying Roy paid Little. I don't think the general public believes Duke paid Zion.

[MCFinARL]

You have proof of that? Also, I assume you currently live in NC and are hearing our bitter rivals bash Coach K/Zion. Pretty sure Duke fans would do the exact same thing if a similar tweet came out saying Roy paid Little. I don't think the general public believes Duke paid Zion.

I hope you are right--but I don't put much faith in the "general public" for sorting out truth from fiction in the news--or bothering to follow up on a story once they hear the first part of it.

[subzero02]

I hope you are right--but I don't put much faith in the "general public" for sorting out truth from fiction in the news--or bothering to follow up on a story once they hear the first part of it.

The ignorance that still exists in some segments of the country regarding the lacrosse case proves this point...

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

The ignorance that still exists in some segments of the country regarding the lacrosse case proves this point...

No one wins the court of public opinion by convincing the ignorant. Some people will always be determined to hate.

I am fine with people believing whatever they wish as long as the facts are on our side. I can't waste time attempting to win over blind stupidity.

[bundabergdevil]

I hope you are right--but I don't put much faith in the "general public" for sorting out truth from fiction in the news--or bothering to follow up on a story once they hear the first part of it.

I guess for something like this I don't really care much what the "general public" believes. I do, however, care what key stakeholders that could impact Zion's career or Duke's program believe. On that front, I don't see any way that this negatively impacts Zion's career trajectory. There are plenty of NBA players who actually profited from or gamed the amateur system who are doing just fine. And I also don't see this negatively impacting the Duke MBB program any more than other whispers of impropriety around the program. Which is to say, not at all, really.

I guess ESPN is my only barometer for national sports media but they've been talking about Zion quite a bit since he announced and I haven't heard boo about Avenatti and these allegations. So, I think the national media at least, have moved on. The folks that have made up their mind about Duke are just going to use this as another data point --- haters are going to hate, as the kids say. Not much to do about that.

[thedukelamere]

The ignorance that still exists in some segments of the country regarding the lacrosse case proves this point...

I can confirm that I've had to explain the conclusion of the lacrosse "scandal" a handful times up here in Indiana to people who have made snide remarks to me while wearing various Duke LAX shirts. Unless they saw the documentary, all they remember is Nancy Grace and the media storm rather than the resolution.

[sagegrouse]

I can confirm that I've had to explain the conclusion of the lacrosse "scandal" a handful times up here in Indiana to people who have made snide remarks to me while wearing various Duke LAX shirts. Unless they saw the documentary, all they remember is Nancy Grace and the media storm rather than the resolution.

Perhaps one reason, IMHO (where the H disappeared long ago), the Duke Trustees told Alleva and Brodhead to stand to the side and then proceeded to throw the LAX team and coach under the bus -- this stuff was serious and the future of the University was at stake.

[mattman91]

What do you expect from a "third-rate lawyer"?

[AGDukesky]

What do you expect from a "third-rate lawyer"?

Why do you think so highly of him?

[proelitedota]

I don't agree with the title update. The Zion allegations might be a hoax, but the his other Nike dump might not be.

[devilnfla]

You have proof of that? Also, I assume you currently live in NC and are hearing our bitter rivals bash Coach K/Zion. Pretty sure Duke fans would do the exact same thing if a similar tweet came out saying Roy paid Little. I don't think the general public believes Duke paid Zion.

Disagree, I'm still hearing it in Florida.

[dukelifer]

Also a shame that the general public will continue to believe that Zion was paid based on the fabricated lie that a criminal tweeted out, and the media will continue to push that narrative because it sells clicks.

There will be a few but there are many more that hate Duke and K. That will never change. But unless it rises to an NCAA violation or indictment - it will go away.

[jimsumner]

The allegations relating to Zion Williamson made the NBA nightly news.

I suspect we'll be waiting a long time before the info that this was unfounded makes the national news.

[CameronBornAndBred]

The allegations relating to Zion Williamson made the NBA nightly news.

I suspect we'll be waiting a long time before the info that this was unfounded makes the national news.

If it were any other player, you would probably be right. But Zion mowing his grass would probably make the news, so this tidbit exonerating him and his family likely will too.

[AZLA]

If it were any other player, you would probably be right. But Zion mowing his grass would probably make the news, so this tidbit exonerating him and his family likely will too.

Dude! How did you know? https://youtu.be/eJtZKXqDi64

[robed deity]

Dude! How did you know? https://youtu.be/eJtZKXqDi64

I was going to try to post something clever, but probably can't top that. Funny.

[UrinalCake]

You have proof of that? Also, I assume you currently live in NC and are hearing our bitter rivals bash Coach K/Zion. Pretty sure Duke fans would do the exact same thing if a similar tweet came out saying Roy paid Little. I don't think the general public believes Duke paid Zion.

I don't have "proof" in the sense of a scientific experiment, but I do live in the triangle and interact with many UNC fans and alumni. Most are educated, intelligent people who work high-paying professional jobs. I don't group them with the "walmart" crowd. They ALL believe that Zion was paid by Duke. It's not a matter of them thinking there's strong evidence, or that he was probably paid. The know it for a fact. And they believed this even before the Avenatti allegations came out. More than one person I know has pointed out that Zion's family moved into a very nice home in Durham when Zion arrived, and they see no possible explanation for this other than the school paying for it. They see the FBI wiretaps of the Kansas coach referencing Zion's father as further proof that Zion was paid. And the only possible explanation for Zion committing to Duke when he was considered a lock for Clemson is that Duke wrote the biggest check. When the most recent tweets came out, the general consensus was relief that finally the truth has come out.

Again, these are otherwise reasonable, intelligent people capable of obtaining information and making a thoughtful conclusion. But when it comes to Duke, they will skew whatever data they receive as evidence of Duke's wrongdoing whenever they can. The fact that Avenatti's allegations have been clearly proven to be false simply does not matter. They will believe that it's just Duke trying to cover their tracks. And it's not just the UNC fans, I've also encountered State fans, MSU fans, VT fans, even a Harvard fan who is big into crew and doesn't care about basketball; they all believe it is common knowledge that Duke paid Zion to come. And to be fair, most of them believe that this happens everywhere and that it's not a big deal.

[subzero02]

The allegations relating to Zion Williamson made the NBAnightly news.

I suspect we'll be waiting a long time before the info that this was unfounded makes the national news.

Did you mean NBC nightly news or does NBA TV have a nightly news program that I've been overlooking?

[cspan37421]

I don't have "proof" in the sense of a scientific experiment, but I do live in the triangle and interact with many UNC fans and alumni. Most are educated, intelligent people who work high-paying professional jobs. I don't group them with the "walmart" crowd. They ALL believe that Zion was paid by Duke. It's not a matter of them thinking there's strong evidence, or that he was probably paid. The know it for a fact. And they believed this even before the Avenatti allegations came out. More than one person I know has pointed out that Zion's family moved into a very nice home in Durham when Zion arrived, and they see no possible explanation for this other than the school paying for it. They see the FBI wiretaps of the Kansas coach referencing Zion's father as further proof that Zion was paid. And the only possible explanation for Zion committing to Duke when he was considered a lock for Clemson is that Duke wrote the biggest check. When the most recent tweets came out, the general consensus was relief that finally the truth has come out.

Again, these are otherwise reasonable, intelligent people capable of obtaining information and making a thoughtful conclusion. But when it comes to Duke, they will skew whatever data they receive as evidence of Duke's wrongdoing whenever they can. The fact that Avenatti's allegations have been clearly proven to be false simply does not matter. They will believe that it's just Duke trying to cover their tracks. And it's not just the UNC fans, I've also encountered State fans, MSU fans, VT fans, even a Harvard fan who is big into crew and doesn't care about basketball; they all believe it is common knowledge that Duke paid Zion to come. And to be fair, most of them believe that this happens everywhere and that it's not a big deal.

Something tells me that if Zion had an underwhelming season, they'd be a little less certain, and find something else about which to bloviate.

In other words, their certainty is directly proportional to how awesome he turned out to be, not a function of any evidence uncovered to date.

[mdj]

Something tells me that if Zion had an underwhelming season, they'd be a little less certain, and find something else about which to bloviate.

In other words, their certainty is directly proportional to how awesome he turned out to be, not a function of any evidence uncovered to date.

Right I was just thinking that. Cus if Zion was paid surely RJ and Cam made more. Unless they somehow structured incentives based on performance into their under the table agreement.

[ndkjr70]

I don't agree with the title update. The Zion allegations might be a hoax, but the his other Nike dump might not be.

It’s nowhere near “the world is literally ending” enough for you, so this is unsurprising.

[Avvocato]

I am not sure the articles about the hoax on Avenatti prove the claims against Zion are totally false yet. Avenatti claims he has other evidence, and that Zion and Duke’s silence on the allegations are further proof (in his mind) that there is merit to them. Like everyone, I want to believe this is all junk, and the Deadspin article makes me feel better about it. However, similar to when the stories broke, I’m willing to wait for this to all play out before I completely feel comfortable that this is settled business. Like many, I think of Avenatti as dirt and don’t believe much of what he says. I’m just not ready to declare case closed yet.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

I am not sure the articles about the hoax on Avenatti prove the claims against Zion are totally false yet. Avenatti claims he has other evidence, and that Zion and Duke’s silence on the allegations are further proof (in his mind) that there is merit to them. Like everyone, I want to believe this is all junk, and the Deadspin article makes me feel better about it. However, similar to when the stories broke, I’m willing to wait for this to all play out before I completely feel comfortable that this is settled business. Like many, I think of Avenatti as dirt and don’t believe much of what he says. I’m just not ready to declare case closed yet.

Paying someone to fake documents is good enough for me.

[CameronBornAndBred]

I am not sure the articles about the hoax on Avenatti prove the claims against Zion are totally false yet. Avenatti claims he has other evidence, and that Zion and Duke’s silence on the allegations are further proof (in his mind) that there is merit to them. Like everyone, I want to believe this is all junk, and the Deadspin article makes me feel better about it. However, similar to when the stories broke, I’m willing to wait for this to all play out before I completely feel comfortable that this is settled business. Like many, I think of Avenatti as dirt and don’t believe much of what he says. I’m just not ready to declare case closed yet.

Given the circumstances, anyone of any importance will. (Not knocking you in that statement, I get your wariness.) But there is nobody in a court of law, or the phony "court" of the NCAA that would touch any of his claims with a 10 foot pole.
PS...with the time he is facing, I'd come closer to betting a pie than I ever have that he doesn't bring Duke back up again. Any more proven false statements are simply less time that his jury comes back with a guilty verdict.

[duke96]

So, anyone figure out Avenatti’s cell # yet? He says in the deadspin article it’s easy to find. Love to reach out with my condolences on his indictment!

;-)

[IrishDevil]

Paying someone to fake documents is good enough for me.

I'd agree with you, Mtn.Devil, but the article says that the hoaxing tipster suckered Avenatti with a fake invoice, not that Avenatti paid the tipster to generate fake evidence.


I am not sure the articles about the hoax on Avenatti prove the claims against Zion are totally false yet. Avenatti claims he has other evidence, and that Zion and Duke’s silence on the allegations are further proof (in his mind) that there is merit to them. Like everyone, I want to believe this is all junk, and the Deadspin article makes me feel better about it. However, similar to when the stories broke, I’m willing to wait for this to all play out before I completely feel comfortable that this is settled business. Like many, I think of Avenatti as dirt and don’t believe much of what he says. I’m just not ready to declare case closed yet.


Given the circumstances, anyone of any importance will. (Not knocking you in that statement, I get your wariness.) But there is nobody in a court of law, or the phony "court" of the NCAA that would touch any of his claims with a 10 foot pole.
PS...with the time he is facing, I'd come closer to betting a pie than I ever have that he doesn't bring Duke back up again. Any more proven false statements are simply less time that his jury comes back with a guilty verdict.

I don't believe a single word from Avenatti, but I'm still with Avvocato on this one to some extent - I'm glad the invoice was fake and will believe Duke has done everything it could re: compliance unless shown otherwise, but it doesn't put the matter to bed completely. I agree, CB&B, without more these claims should not go anywhere in court or with the NCAA, but I will only be at ease once this dies down with no bombshells or consequences for Duke. But I also tend toward "expect the best, prepare for the worst," so nobody need follow me under this particular raincloud. :o

[uh_no]

I'd agree with you, Mtn.Devil, but the article says that the hoaxing tipster suckered Avenatti with a fake invoice, not that Avenatti paid the tipster to generate fake evidence.





I don't believe a single word from Avenatti, but I'm still with Avvocato on this one to some extent - I'm glad the invoice was fake and will believe Duke has done everything it could re: compliance unless shown otherwise, but it doesn't put the matter to bed completely. I agree, CB&B, without more these claims should not go anywhere in court or with the NCAA, but I will only be at ease once this dies down with no bombshells or consequences for Duke. But I also tend toward "expect the best, prepare for the worst," so nobody need follow me under this particular raincloud. :o

you and mel brooks, both.

[Kfanarmy]

I don't have "proof" in the sense of a scientific experiment, but I do live in the triangle and interact with many UNC fans and alumni. Most are educated, intelligent people who work high-paying professional jobs. I don't group them with the "walmart" crowd. They ALL believe that Zion was paid by Duke. It's not a matter of them thinking there's strong evidence, or that he was probably paid. The know it for a fact. And they believed this even before the Avenatti allegations came out. More than one person I know has pointed out that Zion's family moved into a very nice home in Durham when Zion arrived, and they see no possible explanation for this other than the school paying for it. They see the FBI wiretaps of the Kansas coach referencing Zion's father as further proof that Zion was paid. And the only possible explanation for Zion committing to Duke when he was considered a lock for Clemson is that Duke wrote the biggest check. When the most recent tweets came out, the general consensus was relief that finally the truth has come out.

Again, these are otherwise reasonable, intelligent people capable of obtaining information and making a thoughtful conclusion. But when it comes to Duke, they will skew whatever data they receive as evidence of Duke's wrongdoing whenever they can. The fact that Avenatti's allegations have been clearly proven to be false simply does not matter. They will believe that it's just Duke trying to cover their tracks. And it's not just the UNC fans, I've also encountered State fans, MSU fans, VT fans, even a Harvard fan who is big into crew and doesn't care about basketball; they all believe it is common knowledge that Duke paid Zion to come. And to be fair, most of them believe that this happens everywhere and that it's not a big deal.

"fans" and "thoughtful conclusion(s)" are rarely found at the same time. IDK but this sounds a bit blown up. And frankly the UNC fan base's moral compass is so twisted that their frame of reference probably doesn't allow them to believe anyone is doing anything the right way. When the "Carolina way" was realized to mean cheat without accepting responsibility or punishment, even if it costs the university its academic reputation around the world, they lost all ability to accept that other schools might not be cheating. As soon as they accept someone else isn't cheating, they may be faced with the fact that they were.

[HereBeforeCoachK]

I don't have "proof" in the sense of a scientific experiment, but I do live in the triangle and interact with many UNC fans and alumni. Most are educated, intelligent people who work high-paying professional jobs. I don't group them with the "walmart" crowd. They ALL believe that Zion was paid by Duke. It's not a matter of them thinking there's strong evidence, or that he was probably paid. The know it for a fact. And they believed this even before the Avenatti allegations came out. More than one person I know has pointed out that Zion's family moved into a very nice home in Durham when Zion arrived, and they see no possible explanation for this other than the school paying for it. They see the FBI wiretaps of the Kansas coach referencing Zion's father as further proof that Zion was paid. And the only possible explanation for Zion committing to Duke when he was considered a lock for Clemson is that Duke wrote the biggest check. When the most recent tweets came out, the general consensus was relief that finally the truth has come out.

Again, these are otherwise reasonable, intelligent people capable of obtaining information and making a thoughtful conclusion. But when it comes to Duke, they will skew whatever data they receive as evidence of Duke's wrongdoing whenever they can. The fact that Avenatti's allegations have been clearly proven to be false simply does not matter. They will believe that it's just Duke trying to cover their tracks. And it's not just the UNC fans, I've also encountered State fans, MSU fans, VT fans, even a Harvard fan who is big into crew and doesn't care about basketball; they all believe it is common knowledge that Duke paid Zion to come. And to be fair, most of them believe that this happens everywhere and that it's not a big deal.

But since when could Duke outspend Clemson athletics for anything??????????. As rich as the Duke BB program is, it's nothing compared to Clemson FB....and they'd have chipped in the money for Zion. Remember Tree Rollins. (I mean the whole thing is absurd, just pointing out that Duke outspending Clemson ain't happenin)

[jimsumner]

Did you mean NBC nightly news or does NBA TV have a nightly news program that I've been overlooking?

:)

I was working on an NBA article at the time.

Good thing I wasn't working on an NBC article or I would have referenced the NBC Playoffs.

[brevity]

Good thing I wasn't working on an NBC article or I would have referenced the NBC Playoffs.

“If this were single elimination, Savannah Guthrie has a shot, but it’s best-of-7 and I expect Lester Holt to win that matchup.”

[JasonEvans]

“If this were single elimination, Savannah Guthrie has a shot, but it’s best-of-7 and I expect Lester Holt to win that matchup.”

Someone please spork brevity for me!

[jv001]

"fans" and "thoughtful conclusion(s)" are rarely found at the same time. IDK but this sounds a bit blown up. And frankly the UNC fan base's moral compass is so twisted that their frame of reference probably doesn't allow them to believe anyone is doing anything the right way. When the "Carolina way" was realized to mean cheat without accepting responsibility or punishment, even if it costs the university its academic reputation around the world, they lost all ability to accept that other schools might not be cheating. As soon as they accept someone else isn't cheating, they may be faced with the fact that they were.

Believe me, the Cheat fans felt that all the other schools were cheating way before the academic fraud was revealed. They have been that way from the very day they chose to root for the cheats. In their minds, they never cheat but everybody else does. At least most of the cheat fans I know believe that. GoDuke!

[MCFinARL]

Someone please spork brevity for me!

Done!

[Avvocato]

New Nike and Zion allegations made by Avenatti in court filing. He claims to have some texts. Says some Nike execs funneled cash to high school players in EYBL leagues and/or family or handlers, including to Zion and Romeo Langford and others. Again, who knows what is true.

https://www.espn.com/espn/story/_/id/27390195/avenatti-filing-nike-okd-payments-zion-more

[mattman91]

New Nike and Zion allegations made by Avenatti in court filing. He claims to have some texts. Says some Nike execs funneled cash to high school players in EYBL leagues and/or family or handlers, including to Zion and Romeo Langford and others. Again, who knows what is true.

https://www.espn.com/espn/story/_/id/27390195/avenatti-filing-nike-okd-payments-zion-more

Creepy porn lawyer strikes again.

[arnie]

New Nike and Zion allegations made by Avenatti in court filing. He claims to have some texts. Says some Nike execs funneled cash to high school players in EYBL leagues and/or family or handlers, including to Zion and Romeo Langford and others. Again, who knows what is true.

https://www.espn.com/espn/story/_/id/27390195/avenatti-filing-nike-okd-payments-zion-more

We know Adidas was paying players, why wouldn’t Nike also be doing the same? Just think Nike did/does a better job of disguising it.

The whole shoe deal with schools and coaches reeks IMO and the gutless NCAA won’t get ahead of it.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

We know Adidas was paying players, why wouldn’t Nike also be doing the same? Just think Nike did/does a better job of disguising it.

The whole shoe deal with schools and coaches reeks IMO and the gutless NCAA won’t get ahead of it.

Wayyyy too much money at stake for the NCAA to wade into the relationship between schools and shoes.

[budwom]

Whenever I send away for new Nikes, I'm always pawing thru the box looking for that wad of cash, but thus far nuthin'. Maybe next time.

[Indoor66]

Whenever I send away for new Nikes, I'm always pawing thru the box looking for that wad of cash, but thus far nuthin'. Maybe next time.

How tall are you and what is your vertical?

[wavedukefan70s]

The amount of money by these companies sponsering high schools and such is staggering. We have adidas
And highschool name on 3ft signs on every lightpole leading to the school for a little less than halfmile.my lord they bring the players every thing.maybe im naive its crazy.
Money is no object with these companies.

[devildeac]

We know Adidas was paying players, why wouldn’t Nike also be doing the same? Just think Nike did/does a better job of disguising it.

The whole shoe deal with schools and coaches reeks IMO and the gutless NCAA won’t get ahead of it.

Yep. Feckless.

(trying to see how many different thread can be infiltrated with that word :o;))

[devildeac]

Whenever I send away for new Nikes, I'm always pawing thru the box looking for that wad of cash, but thus far nuthin'. Maybe next time.

Tough to really expect with your vertical of 1.5 inches and your 4.4 (hour) time in the 40 yard "dash." :rolleyes::p

(I see Indoor66 awakened earlier than me today and partially addressed your delusion of grandeur. ;))

[budwom]

I came almost nose to nose with a deer yesterday as I was mowing the lawn, and she was eating our apples....(I guess they tune out the sound of lawnmowers)...when we finally saw each other, she displayed a nice two foot vertical, mine somewhat less, maybe five inches?

[BobBender]

Believe me, the Cheat fans felt that all the other schools were cheating way before the academic fraud was revealed. They have been that way from the very day they chose to root for the cheats. In their minds, they never cheat but everybody else does. At least most of the cheat fans I know believe that. GoDuke!

I may be the only one here who finds it offensive that there is a built-in assumption that UNC, Louisville, NC State are always guilty when impropriety is alleged, but a high-handed self-righteousness when allegations are made about the Nike/ Blue Devil relationship.

[Indoor66]

I may be the only one here who finds it offensive that there is a built-in assumption that UNC, Louisville, NC State are always guilty when impropriety is alleged, but a high-handed self-righteousness when allegations are made about the Nike/ Blue Devil relationship.

Some, by their repeated behavior, relinquish or at least, diminish, their presumption of innocence.

[freshmanjs]

I may be the only one here who finds it offensive that there is a built-in assumption that UNC, Louisville, NC State are always guilty when impropriety is alleged, but a high-handed self-righteousness when allegations are made about the Nike/ Blue Devil relationship.

The track record of those 3 institutions is pretty terrible with regard to impropriety, so not offensive at all to me.

[HereBeforeCoachK]

Some, by their repeated behavior, relinquish or at least, diminish, their presumption of innocence.

And in the court of public opinion, that presumption is tenuous at best anyway.....

[cato]

I may be the only one here who finds it offensive that there is a built-in assumption that UNC, Louisville, NC State are always guilty when impropriety is alleged, but a high-handed self-righteousness when allegations are made about the Nike/ Blue Devil relationship.

On whose behalf are you offended?

[UrinalCake]

After the last time Avenatti claimed Zion received money, didn’t he later admit it was all a hoax? Like he made up a tweet about paying Zion as a joke to see if someone would fall for it? Why would we start believing him now?

[Indoor66]

Why do people give Avenatti any credence at all?

[TruBlu]

Why do people give Avenatti any credence at all?

Maybe give him some Credence Clearwater Revival, but change the lyrics to “... rolling UP the river ...”

[roywhite]

Why do people give Avenatti any credence at all?

Yes. Why does DBR even cover this and put the accusations on the front page?

[Green Wave Dukie]

Maybe give him some Credence Clearwater Revival, but change the lyrics to “... rolling UP the river ...”

“...take me to the prison”.

Oh, whoops, wrong song.

[MCFinARL]

Yep. Feckless.

(trying to see how many different thread can be infiltrated with that word :o;))

DBR--the place where getting "feckless" into as many threads as possible is a thing.

Or put another way, October can't get here soon enough. :)

[Indoor66]

DBR--the place where getting "feckless" into as many threads as possible is a thing.

Or put another way, October can't get here soon enough. :)

You must be pining for a minutes discussion supported by pages of stats. 😂

[BD80]

DBR--the place where getting "feckless" into as many threads as possible is a thing. ...

Ummm. This is the internet. Feckless is the default setting.

[bundabergdevil]

That Zion entertained payments from Nike can so far still be called a hoax; however, the court filings appear to support that Nike actively and knowingly funneled (or attempted to funnel) money to coaches/players - including Zion - and direct them toward particular schools. The internal emails and quotes about rivals, etc are pretty revealing reads.

ESPN (https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/27403106/filings-suggest-nike-paid-pursuit-players)

Yahoo (https://www.yahoo.com/sports/texts-and-emails-allegedly-detail-nikes-willingness-to-pay-high-schoolers-including-zion-williamson-001012098.html)

[chrishoke]

That Zion entertained payments from Nike can so far still be called a hoax; however, the court filings appear to support that Nike actively and knowingly funneled (or attempted to funnel) money to coaches/players - including Zion - and direct them toward particular schools. The internal emails and quotes about rivals, etc are pretty revealing reads.

ESPN (https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/27403106/filings-suggest-nike-paid-pursuit-players)

Yahoo (https://www.yahoo.com/sports/texts-and-emails-allegedly-detail-nikes-willingness-to-pay-high-schoolers-including-zion-williamson-001012098.html)

Those emails are very troubling.