How South Carolina opened door at Duke for Mike Krzyzewski

[wavedukefan70s]

Krzyzewski knew his history. Bubas reached three Final Fours in four seasons at Duke, but the program slid under Bucky Waters after Bubas stepped into an administrative role. The Blue Devils were floundering.
https://www.postandcourier.com/sports/how-south-carolina-opened-door-at-duke-for-mike-krzyzewski/article_913e976e-4d6a-11e9-b654-2b7b92772c5b.html

[BD80]

Krzyzewski knew his history. Bubas reached three Final Fours in four seasons at Duke, but the program slid under Bucky Waters after Bubas stepped into an administrative role. The Blue Devils were floundering.
https://www.postandcourier.com/sports/how-south-carolina-opened-door-at-duke-for-mike-krzyzewski/article_913e976e-4d6a-11e9-b654-2b7b92772c5b.html

By hiring away Bill Foster.

[duke79]

By hiring away Bill Foster.

I never fully understood why Bill Foster left Duke for the South Carolina job. After his stellar recruiting in the late 70's and his amazing run to the final game in 1978, I figured he could have stayed at Duke for life. Was it for more money? Or were there personal problems with the higher-ups in the athletic department at Duke? Or some other reason?

It seems like his career gradually slipped away once he left Duke. It reminds me a little when Coach G left Duke for Texas and she never achieved the success she had at Duke.

[-jk]

I never fully understood why Bill Foster left Duke for the South Carolina job. After his stellar recruiting in the late 70's and his amazing run to the final game in 1978, I figured he could have stayed at Duke for life. Was it for more money? Or were there personal problems with the higher-ups in the athletic department at Duke? Or some other reason?

It seems like his career gradually slipped away once he left Duke. It reminds me a little when Coach G left Duke for Texas and she never achieved the success she had at Duke.

He was better at building a program (he did it several times) than sustaining one. He was not recruiting well towards the end of his Duke stay, leaving K with Taylor, Dennard, and Banks (a junior and two seniors) and not too much else. Tissaw, Allen, Engelland, Emma - none of them were really suited to play K's style. I understand things were a bit testy in the locker room...

-jk

[ns7]

I never fully understood why Bill Foster left Duke for the South Carolina job. After his stellar recruiting in the late 70's and his amazing run to the final game in 1978, I figured he could have stayed at Duke for life. Was it for more money? Or were there personal problems with the higher-ups in the athletic department at Duke? Or some other reason?

It seems like his career gradually slipped away once he left Duke. It reminds me a little when Coach G left Duke for Texas and she never achieved the success she had at Duke.

South Carolina wasn't a great situation until Mike McGee fixed the athletic department in the nineties. Leaving the ACC to be an independent was a major setback. The sports programs didn't recover until joining the SEC in 1992.

[sagegrouse]

Krzyzewski knew his history. Bubas reached three Final Fours in four seasons at Duke, but the program slid under Bucky Waters after Bubas stepped into an administrative role. The Blue Devils were floundering.
https://www.postandcourier.com/sports/how-south-carolina-opened-door-at-duke-for-mike-krzyzewski/article_913e976e-4d6a-11e9-b654-2b7b92772c5b.html


By hiring away Bill Foster.

The article speculated that South Carolina purloined Bill foster -- otherwise, he would have stayed at Duke. Then, maybe, maybe,... after a couple of years the Gamecocks could have hired Krzyzewski from Army.

This is fantasy. Bill Foster was a job-changer -- we all know people like that, somewhat driven by insecurity. He would not have stayed at Duke for long. Of course, if Foster had stayed just one more year, K would no longer be at Army, having accepted the Iowa State job and "back to the future" would be a little more complicated. Also, as part of his psyche, Foster seemed to want only five or six players. After the 1978 success, he only recruited Vince Taylor, when he could have gotten several top-flight players. Kind of a death wish there, wasn't it?

[HereBeforeCoachK]

South Carolina wasn't a great situation until Mike McGee fixed the athletic department in the nineties. Leaving the ACC to be an independent was a major setback. The sports programs didn't recover until joining the SEC in 1992.

SC was still pretty close to the Frank McGuire glory days back then...in fact Foster replaced McGuire. Back then there were Gamecock fans who favored hoops over FB. Now there probably are zero like that. And I'm pretty sure that SC was able to pay him more than Duke could. The SC job was pretty much the equal of the Duke job back then, better in the minds of some.

Which goes back to the slippage from 78 through 80 - which makes no sense. After the 78 run, where Duke was clearly the best team derailed only by a once in a lifetime fantasy island game by Goose Givens...the bumper sticker memes were "A Dynasty is Fostered" - as Banks, Dennard and Gminski had two more full seasons at Duke, and one more with Spanarkel in fact.

Early in 78-79, the team was unbeatablen - then they lost a game to Ohio State in Madison Square, after I think having a big lead - and never recovered...IMO. They lost the next night in MSG to St. Johns. Never got it all back...Not in 78-79 and not in 79-80. They were very good, and they had some moments, but they did not reach the levels we probably all assumed they would after the magical late season run in 77-78. They started to get it back 79-80, but lost at Clemson (something like 3000 people above capacity in Littlejohn) then the Cheats whipped them back to back...

That was the odd part to me...somehow never fully recovering from the back to back losses in MSG.

[CDu]

SC was still pretty close to the Frank McGuire glory days back then...in fact Foster replaced McGuire. Back then there were Gamecock fans who favored hoops over FB. Now there probably are zero like that. And I'm pretty sure that SC was able to pay him more than Duke could. The SC job was pretty much the equal of the Duke job back then, better in the minds of some.

Which goes back to the slippage from 78 through 80 - which makes no sense. After the 78 run, where Duke was clearly the best team derailed only by a once in a lifetime fantasy island game by Goose Givens...the bumper sticker memes were "A Dynasty is Fostered" - as Banks, Dennard and Gminski had two more full seasons at Duke, and one more with Spanarkel in fact.

Early in 78-79, the team was unbeatablen - then they lost a game to Ohio State in Madison Square, after I think having a big lead - and never recovered...IMO. They lost the next night in MSG to St. Johns. Never got it all back...Not in 78-79 and not in 79-80. They were very good, and they had some moments, but they did not reach the levels we probably all assumed they would after the magical late season run in 77-78. They started to get it back 79-80, but lost at Clemson (something like 3000 people above capacity in Littlejohn) then the Cheats whipped them back to back...

That was the odd part to me...somehow never fully recovering from the back to back losses in MSG.

Well, they DID win the ACC tourney and made the Elite-8 in 1980 (and that was after Spanarkel graduated), including a beat down of UNC in the ACC semis and an upset of UK. And they were one game worse (ACC finals loss) in 1979 than 1978 heading into the tournament. So it isn’t like they fell apart in either season. No doubt 1979 was disappointing, but that really was just due to the fluky loss in the tourney that year.

[wsb3]

Well, they DID win the ACC tourney and made the Elite-8 in 1980 (and that was after Spanarkel graduated), including a beat down of UNC in the ACC semis and an upset of UK. And they were one game worse (ACC finals loss) in 1979 than 1978 heading into the tournament. So it isn’t like they fell apart in either season. No doubt 1979 was disappointing, but that really was just due to the fluky loss in the tourney that year.

And that 1980 ACC Championship Win vs Maryland was one of my favorite games. I thought it was a classic. I am not sure the second half ever got to be more than a two possession game one way or the other. If my memory serves me correctly Vince Taylor got back to back steals late in the game.

It has been a long time but I am pretty sure Feinstein covered in his book Foster's reasons for leaving. Good book.

9220

[HereBeforeCoachK]

Well, they DID win the ACC tourney and made the Elite-8 in 1980 (and that was after Spanarkel graduated), including a beat down of UNC in the ACC semis and an upset of UK. And they were one game worse (ACC finals loss) in 1979 than 1978 heading into the tournament. So it isn’t like they fell apart in either season. No doubt 1979 was disappointing, but that really was just due to the fluky loss in the tourney that year.

I don't think anything was said about "falling apart." They did achieve a lot, but Banks and Dennard were talking about multiple Nattys after the loss to Kentucky. They were very very good for the two years afterwards, but the assumption was that they would be the BEST team, nationally, and by a good bit. They never got close to that. Their Sweet 16 win over Kentucky was a great achievement, but it was a big upset. As I said, the bumper stickers were "A Dynasty is Fostered' because of three more years of Banks and Dennard, two with Gman, and one with Spanarkel.

They fell well short of a dynasty.

[CDu]

I don't think anything was said about "falling apart." They did achieve a lot, but Banks and Dennard were talking about multiple Nattys after the loss to Kentucky. They were very very good for the two years afterwards, but the assumption was that they would be the BEST team, nationally, and by a good bit. They never got close to that. Their Sweet 16 win over Kentucky was a great achievement, but it was a big upset. As I said, the bumper stickers were "A Dynasty is Fostered' because of three more years of Banks and Dennard, two with Gman, and one with Spanarkel.

They fell well short of a dynasty.

I would say suggesting that the team “never recovered” - for the next two years, no less - from a pair of losses in December would be suggesting falling apart. I do think making two ACC Finals (winning one) and an Elite-8 is a pretty good recovery.

The tournament is hard to win. We were fortunate to have had the run in 1978. We were unfortunate to bow out early in 1979. Is it disappointing that we didn’t win in 1979? Sure, but not unexpected. And I don’t think there is any evidence that the team never recovered from those two December losses.

[arnie]

I would say suggesting that the team “never recovered” - for the next two years, no less - from a pair of losses in December would be suggesting falling apart. I do think making two ACC Finals (winning one) and an Elite-8 is a pretty good recovery.

The tournament is hard to win. We were fortunate to have had the run in 1978. We were unfortunate to bow out early in 1979. Is it disappointing that we didn’t win in 1979? Sure, but not unexpected. And I don’t think there is any evidence that the team never recovered from those two December losses.

And the other thing we don’t always admit, 1978 was nearly a miracle season. In the opener in Charlotte, Rhode Island has the last shot for the win. In the next game Penn is ahead by a at least 4 with a few minutes left and no shot clock. G-Man blocks a couple of baskets late and we win a tight one. If either of those games goes the wrong way, we are considered a very good team going to the next season, but not a future dynasty.