The Ringer Puts the Pressure on RJ and Cam

[slower]

https://www.theringer.com/march-madness/2019/3/22/18276270/rj-barrett-cam-reddish-duke-ncaa-tournament

Probably no surprise, considering the source. Also no surprise, considering a lot of the chatter on this board during the season.

To summarize, if Zion continues to play at his otherworldly level, it appears that any failure in the tourney will not be laid at HIS feet.

[Steven43]

https://www.theringer.com/march-madness/2019/3/22/18276270/rj-barrett-cam-reddish-duke-ncaa-tournament

Probably no surprise, considering the source. Also no surprise, considering a lot of the chatter on this board during the season.

To summarize, if Zion continues to play at his otherworldly level, it appears that any failure in the tourney will not be laid at HIS feet.

I personally cannot argue with anything in the article. I’ve been saying much the same all year — to tremendous criticism from many on DBR. I would love nothing more than for Cam and R.J. to take their game to another level and help Zion carry this team to a title.

[CDu]

To summarize, if Zion continues to play at his otherworldly level, it appears that any failure in the tourney will not be laid at HIS feet.

I mean, I'd largely agree with this. Zion is doing things that are borderline nonhuman. If he continues to do those, it won't be his fault if we lose a game.

I mostly agree with the article, though I think it does a bad job of delineating between the struggles of Barrett and the struggles of Reddish. The point they make is that if Duke loses, it will likely be because we get the bad versions of Reddish and Barrett. And the UNC game is a good example of that, as neither was very good in that game. But I don't think it's fair to group the two players together in their flaws.

Yes, Barrett has some flaws. He's not great defensively and he forces too many bad shots. But he's a fantastic defensive rebounder for a guard and he does a lot of different things of value on offense (secondary ballhandler, secondary passer, volume scoring threat, transition menace). I've voiced the limitations of Barrett's game plenty, but it isn't fair to lump him in the same boat as Reddish on offense. He's still a really good player overall, though he does have occasional stinkers.

Reddish is a different story. Where Barrett is usually just a somewhat inefficient scorer, he's clearly still a net positive on offense. Reddish is not typically a net positive on offense. The article lays it out quite nicely in their description of Reddish's offensive game, so I won't go any further there. That said, where Reddish is clearly inferior to Barrett on offense, he is superior on defense (not to nearly the degree that Barrett is better offensively of course, but still better defensively). He's really good defending the perimeter, underrated even. I don't expect Reddish to provide value offensively game to game, but I do expect him to be a defensive force. And he usually delivers on that end.

[westwall]

https://www.theringer.com/march-madness/2019/3/22/18276270/rj-barrett-cam-reddish-duke-ncaa-tournament

Probably no surprise, considering the source. Also no surprise, considering a lot of the chatter on this board during the season.

To summarize, if Zion continues to play at his otherworldly level, it appears that any failure in the tourney will not be laid at HIS feet.


The criticism seems harsh, but recognixpzes both players’ talent and only seems to be saying that both could (or should) be playing more smartly. That meets the eye test for me: they are freshmen.

[Steven43]

Yes, Barrett has some flaws. He's not great defensively and he forces too many bad shots. But he's a fantastic defensive rebounder for a guard and he does a lot of different things of value on offense (secondary ballhandler, secondary passer, volume scoring threat, transition menace). I've voiced the limitations of Barrett's game plenty, but it isn't fair to lump him in the same boat as Reddish on offense. He's still a really good player overall, though he does have occasional stinkers.
Okay, I’m with you on this.

[SlapTheFloor]

I personally cannot argue with anything in the article. I’ve been saying much the same all year — to tremendous criticism from many on DBR. I would love nothing more than for Cam and R.J. to take their game to another level and help Zion carry this team to a title.

I would argue against their characterization of "Freshman point guard Tyus Jones". I remember Tyus as being a good shooter. His brother, Tre, on the other hand ...

[superdave]

I assume the author has seen the big Duke games this year but not all of them. It reads that way.

While Cam is either on or off, with little in between, on offense, his defense never seems to suffer much from a bad shooting night. So he's still a big asset on that end of the floor. That's something Coach K has stressed in the past; not letting your struggles consumer you defensive effort. I do think the game has not fully slowed down for Cam yet, evidenced by his charges.

I would also note that RJ has been the primary playmaker on an awful lot of possessions the past month, with Tre Jones playing off the ball. That is something that seems to have evolved over the course of the conference schedule. Is that because of lingering Tre should issues? I am not sure to be honest.

[sagegrouse]

https://www.theringer.com/march-madness/2019/3/22/18276270/rj-barrett-cam-reddish-duke-ncaa-tournament

Probably no surprise, considering the source. Also no surprise, considering a lot of the chatter on this board during the season.

To summarize, if Zion continues to play at his otherworldly level, it appears that any failure in the tourney will not be laid at HIS feet.

Cheap shots and nonsense, especially against RJ. RJ is an amazing player -- to focus on his shooting misses the point. Cam has his issues -- one of which is that he is sharing the court with tow ball-dominant players.

I look forward to a great tournament from all three plus Tre.

[budwom]

Cheap shots and nonsense, especially against RJ. RJ is an amazing player -- to focus on his shooting misses the point. Cam has his issues -- one of which is that he is sharing the court with tow ball-dominant players.

I look forward to a great tournament from all three plus Tre.

yeah, RJ is a first team all American who had to carry a ludicrous burden with Zion out....and he's definitely improved in some important areas, too.

[kAzE]

I would argue against their characterization of "Freshman point guard Tyus Jones". I remember Tyus as being a good shooter. His brother, Tre, on the other hand ...

In addition to not knowing the name of Duke's starting point guard, this guy also needs to work on his math skills:
There is no one off their bench whom Coach K seems to trust. He played sophomore guard Jordan Goldwire 28 minutes against the Tar Heels, nearly a tenth of his total (262) all season.

This article is pretty shoddy work by someone who clearly only watched at most 5-6 Duke games all season.

[flyingdutchdevil]

Cheap shots and nonsense, especially against RJ. RJ is an amazing player -- to focus on his shooting misses the point. Cam has his issues -- one of which is that he is sharing the court with tow ball-dominant players.

I look forward to a great tournament from all three plus Tre.

I think it was a good article and, as CDu points out, has fair criticisms to our 2nd and 3rd best players.

The criticism towards RJ is harsh, but really, really fair to Cam. Cam, offensively, has been nowhere near the top 3 player folks predicted of him coming into college.

Like you, I am expecting a great tournament from all 4 freshman. But I won't be surprised if RJ has a few incredibly inefficient games or Cam fouls out in multiple games due to offensive fouls on drives.

[Billy Dat]

Tjarks is only ever evaluating players as they project to the NBA, his interest in college basketball goes no further than as an NBA feeder system so that's the perspective of the article.

I was talking to a friend last night (shout out to DBR's Avvocato) and he asked me who is the most underrated Duke player? His answer was RJ. Obviously, he is getting a lot of post-season awards so that's not what he was talking about...it is more in the perception. I think the Gonzaga game unfairly branded him vis-a-vis Zion as a selfish player. I agree that the article was fair in its critiques of his deficiencies, but it ignores his massive strengths, especially his willingness to compete and be in the big plays - win or lose. The kid has been such a leader for us, happy to take the heat. I love him!

[MChambers]

Tjarks is only ever evaluating players as they project to the NBA, his interest in college basketball goes no further than as an NBA feeder system so that's the perspective of the article.

I was talking to a friend last night (shout out to DBR's Avvocato) and he asked me who is the most underrated Duke player? His answer was RJ. Obviously, he is getting a lot of post-season awards so that's not what he was talking about...it is more in the perception. I think the Gonzaga game unfairly branded him vis-a-vis Zion as a selfish player. I agree that the article was fair in its critiques of his deficiencies, but it ignores his massive strengths, especially his willingness to compete and be in the big plays - win or lose. The kid has been such a leader for us, happy to take the heat. I love him!

I expect RJ to have a great tournament. I think his competitive nature is well suited for elimination games.

[Steven43]

I would argue against their characterization of "Freshman point guard Tyus Jones". I remember Tyus as being a good shooter. His brother, Tre, on the other hand ...

No, I think you’re basically right — Tyus was a pretty good shooter, and a great FT shooter.

[Steven43]

Tjarks is only ever evaluating players as they project to the NBA, his interest in college basketball goes no further than as an NBA feeder system so that's the perspective of the article.

I was talking to a friend last night (shout out to DBR's Avvocato) and he asked me who is the most underrated Duke player? His answer was RJ. Obviously, he is getting a lot of post-season awards so that's not what he was talking about...it is more in the perception. I think the Gonzaga game unfairly branded him vis-a-vis Zion as a selfish player. I agree that the article was fair in its critiques of his deficiencies, but it ignores his massive strengths, especially his willingness to compete and be in the big plays - win or lose. The kid has been such a leader for us, happy to take the heat. I love him!
This too is true, I think. It’s a complicated issue, this player evaluation stuff.

[Steven43]

In addition to not knowing the name of Duke's starting point guard, this guy also needs to work on his math skills:

This article is pretty shoddy work by someone who clearly only watched at most 5-6 Duke games all season.

Haha, you nailed him on the math in regard to Goldwire’s minutes. I hadn’t caught that one.

[Steven43]

I expect RJ to have a great tournament. I think his competitive nature is well suited for elimination games.

This is what I’m praying for. R.J. seems like a very nice young man and I’d really like to see him have great success in this tournament and garner some nationwide praise. If he plays to his potential this team will win the National Championship. He is the key.

[sagegrouse]

In addition to not knowing the name of Duke's starting point guard, this guy also needs to work on his math skills:

This article is pretty shoddy work by someone who clearly only watched at most 5-6 Duke games all season.


Haha, you nailed him on the math in regard to Goldwire’s minutes. I hadn’t caught that one.

I would offer an aphorism:

"In the age of the internet, copy editing has become obsolete, which is not the same as unnecessary."

[yancem]

I assume the author has seen the big Duke games this year but not all of them. It reads that way.

While Cam is either on or off, with little in between, on offense, his defense never seems to suffer much from a bad shooting night. So he's still a big asset on that end of the floor. That's something Coach K has stressed in the past; not letting your struggles consumer you defensive effort. I do think the game has not fully slowed down for Cam yet, evidenced by his charges.

I would also note that RJ has been the primary playmaker on an awful lot of possessions the past month, with Tre Jones playing off the ball. That is something that seems to have evolved over the course of the conference schedule. Is that because of lingering Tre should issues? I am not sure to be honest.

I think Barrett being more a primary ballhandler in February stemmed from Zion being out and K trying to maximize Barrett. Barrett is a great scorer but not so much a catch and shoot kind of guy so Jones trying to get him the ball in scoring position doesn't really work. Unfortunately, I think this hurt Jones's game. Now that Zion is back, Duke can run it's more normal motion offense and take better advantage of Barrett, Jones and Zion.

[superdave]

I think Barrett being more a primary ballhandler in February stemmed from Zion being out and K trying to maximize Barrett. Barrett is a great scorer but not so much a catch and shoot kind of guy so Jones trying to get him the ball in scoring position doesn't really work. Unfortunately, I think this hurt Jones's game. Now that Zion is back, Duke can run it's more normal motion offense and take better advantage of Barrett, Jones and Zion.

This explanation makes sense to me. RJ's assists have been up.

Honestly, I hope for RJ and Cam to stop charging. The rest I'm not worried about. That's like 3 possessions a game we dont give away.

We're talking about margins here. Margins!!

[weezie]

Cheap shots and nonsense, especially against RJ...

Count me in this column. The Ringer is a dope.

[slower]

I guess the main point I took from the article is that the post-season narrative (although maybe not by everybody) will now be "Zion didn't get enough help" - for anything short of a title.

Zion has clearly proved himself beyond a shadow of a doubt. RJ was probably somewhat properly hyped, although probably less efficient than we expected. Cam was clearly overhyped.

I agree with most of what has already been said. However, what has until now been accepted as "growing pains" for this team, may now be fatal to our chances and bring the season to an untimely end. We may win it all - that's all of our hope - but anything less than a title will probably leave a bitter taste for many/most of us, considering the extreme hype that this recruiting class received (much like the several before it).

And, though it's probably an unpopular opinion in some corners around here, this really feels like K's last best shot at one more title.

[flyingdutchdevil]

I guess the main point I took from the article is that the post-season narrative (although maybe not by everybody) will now be "Zion didn't get enough help" - for anything short of a title.

Zion has clearly proved himself beyond a shadow of a doubt. RJ was probably somewhat properly hyped, although probably less efficient than we expected. Cam was clearly overhyped.

I agree with most of what has already been said. However, what has until now been accepted as "growing pains" for this team, may now be fatal to our chances and bring the season to an untimely end. We may win it all - that's all of our hope - but anything less than a title will probably leave a bitter taste for many/most of us, considering the extreme hype that this recruiting class received (much like the several before it).

And, though it's probably an unpopular opinion in some corners around here, this really feels like K's last best shot at one more title.

Yes. 100% yes.

Aligned with everything here. Because of the "Legend of Zion" and our really good talent in the starting 5, a year without a title will feel like a disappointment, even if the probability of winning it all is <20%.

[CDu]

And, though it's probably an unpopular opinion in some corners around here, this really feels like K's last best shot at one more title.

I would say it's one of the last best shots for Coach K. Depending on a couple of players' decisions, next year could also end up being a really good chance. But yes, we're getting toward the end of the line here, and if the one-and-done goes away in the not-too-distant future it could be a challenge for us to rebuild a championship-caliber team for a few years as we restock those next-tier types and get them to be veterans.

That said, I'm not sure that this has much to do with the discussion of the play of Barrett and Reddish.

[BandAlum83]

I guess the main point I took from the article is that the post-season narrative (although maybe not by everybody) will now be "Zion didn't get enough help" - for anything short of a title.

Zion has clearly proved himself beyond a shadow of a doubt. RJ was probably somewhat properly hyped, although probably less efficient than we expected. Cam was clearly overhyped.

I agree with most of what has already been said. However, what has until now been accepted as "growing pains" for this team, may now be fatal to our chances and bring the season to an untimely end. We may win it all - that's all of our hope - but anything less than a title will probably leave a bitter taste for many/most of us, considering the extreme hype that this recruiting class received (much like the several before it).

And, though it's probably an unpopular opinion in some corners around here, this really feels like K's last best shot at one more title.

I am with you until the bolded. With OAD, and not knowing how long until K retires, I feel like K will have multiple additional opportunities for championships!

I am with your logic, but perhaps not in agreement otherwise. How many times have people said so-and-so took the team on his back to a title? They didn't say others necessarily helped or that it was done in spite of the rest of the team.

Also, If Zion weren't on the team, RJ would be regarded as perhaps the best Freshman season in a Duke uniform ever.

[Steven43]

I think Barrett being more a primary ballhandler in February stemmed from Zion being out and K trying to maximize Barrett. Barrett is a great scorer but not so much a catch and shoot kind of guy so Jones trying to get him the ball in scoring position doesn't really work. Unfortunately, I think this hurt Jones's game. Now that Zion is back, Duke can run it's more normal motion offense and take better advantage of Barrett, Jones and Zion.

Great observation. I really like your analysis on this. You should post more.

[Steven43]

I am with you until the bolded. With OAD, and not knowing how long until K retires, I feel like K will have multiple additional opportunities for championships!
I think you are absolutely right. I can almost guarantee you that Coach K is going to stay at least four more years — the four years that his grandson, Michael Savarino, plays on his team. I expect that Duke will have a legitimate shot at a national championship all four of those years

[WiJoe]

I would offer an aphorism:

"In the age of the internet, copy editing has become obsolete, which is not the same as unnecessary."

I like neglected or even ignored, but you're on the right train. It's absolutely necessary.