Favorite Player Poll Final 8- Battier vs. JJ

[JasonEvans]

The third of our four quarter-finals pits the #2 seed, Shane Battier, against the #7 seed JJ Redick.

Like yesterday, I urge you to please DO NOT VOTE YET!!! Take some time to think about it, read the posts in this thread from people trying to persuade you one way or another and then vote.

--Jason "we have arguably the greatest defensive weapon in Duke history against perhaps the greatest offensive weapon in Duke history... wow!!" Evans

[Jeffrey]

Hi,

This one is real easy for me..... Shane.

-Jeffrey

[AnotherNYCDukeFan]

I loved every minute that Battier played and the team's success, but (for me) there was not a single more exciting player than JJ during my 18 years of following Duke.

I was at the Texas game in the Meadowlands when JJ lit up the number 2 team in the nation in every conceivable way. If we're asking favorites I have to go with JJ.

[77devil]

As the first voter I suppose I should state something. I did not dwell on this vote at all. I enjoyed watching JJ's offensive prowess and admired how hard he worked to improve his game after his sophmore year. Shane, however, is a standard bearer for Duke University on and off the court.

[elvis14]

Easy decision for me, JJ. Note, that's nothing negative about Shane at all. I just loved JJ's game, his drive, that nasty streak he had, the excitement he brought. If only Luol had stayed another year or two Sheldon/JJ/Luol might have the a reputation similar to that of Christian/Grant/Bobby.

Good thing about these polls at this point is that there's not really a wrong choice you can make.

[grc5]

My vote is for JJ. Not only was he the most exciting college basketball player I've ever seen, but I loved the fact that he embraced the growing trend of Duke-hating.

JJ embraced the villain role, and that was totally awesome.

For the perfect example, consider what one brilliant Chronicle writer (myself) wrote after JJ dismantled FSU his junior season:

"With seconds remaining in the first half and his team up 41-26, J.J. Redick raced across the baseline looking for a screen. He got the pick he was seeking and received the ball at the left wing. Redick’s pump fake sent his defender flying, and the junior nailed a wide-open three as the buzzer sounded.

Redick gave a pleasant wave and flashed a giant grin in the general direction of the student section.

“That was between me and them,” Redick said of the exchange.

He later clarified his relationship with the raucous Florida State crowd that had been hounding him from the opening tip.

“I love that,” Redick said. “At times I want to go up and… confront some people with some of the stuff they say, but hey, that’s college basketball.”

The buzzer-beater took away what enthusiasm was left in the building, and the disheartened Seminoles would never come close to chiseling away the Duke lead. Twenty minutes in, the game was already over."

JJ let his game do all the talking, and that took major cajones.

[hurleyfor3]

JJ embraced the villain role, and that was totally awesome.

But you voted for Dawkins over Hurley. If only you knew.

[JasonEvans]

This is the hardest vote for me yet. There was nothing that made me more giddy and giggly than when JJ was "on." But Battier... I mean, DAMN, the guy was arguably the most complete player EVER at Duke. Watching him play D was a thing of beauty. And that backhanded tap in the national title game... WOW!

I am really torn. I need to think a lot more.

--Jason "I think JJ's lack of success when it mattered most -- in the NCAA tourney -- may sway me... at least that is how I am leaning at the moment" Evans

[killerleft]

Sorry, JJ. He's your Daddy- Battier.

[Cameron]

I mean, DAMN, the guy was arguably the most complete player EVER at Duke.

I wouldn't say that too loud (if loudness is at all possible on a computer screen). I wrote a whole thing on Shane being the most complete player ever at Duke and almost got myself killed:)

I'm taking your advice, though, Jason, and I'm waiting 'til later this afternoon. It's probably going to be JJ (because, like you, I was like a school girl when he was in the midst of hitting consecutive threes), but I have to take a healthy glance back at my days of watching Shane as well, maybe throw in a couple of old game tapes to help me decide. It's been seven years after all (Wow, where does the time go?). I might try putting in the 2000 Preseason NIT game versus Princeton or 2001 game at Carolina where Shane basically destroyed the entire Tar Heel offense by himself:) Damn that Forte block was amazing.

[Bostondevil]

Ouch. I may opt out of this one. I keep coming back to favorite. I think there are only two players who give me pause against Shane, Johnny and JJ. Argh. I hate picking one but if I'm going to be consistent in my voting, my favorite is JJ by a hair.

[phaedrus]

here's a memory to share.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z1CzbOoYapI

[throatybeard]

I voted for Shane, but here's more of JJ being absolutely sick:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hzHf2o-SW7Q

[johnb]

My definition of "favorite" seems to shift with the wind.

Battier was a straight A high school student at a hard school. He spoke with gravitas and clarity when he was 18. He has exceptional athletic skills (apparently surprising people at the NBA combines, an environment in which I imagine it's hard to impress), but they are overshadowed by his in-game intelligence and anticipation. His charges enraged our opponents and their fans (hah!). He'll probably wind up president. He'll probably win this whole competition.

But I vote JJ, who endured all sorts of cr*p from opposing fans, who made himself into player of the year, and whose shot I can draw up from memory as easily as I can the Laettner shot.

[JasonEvans]

Arrgggh!!! I was all set to vote for Shane and then I went to Youtube and started (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vLQ_ULUMSY4) watching (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hzHf2o-SW7Q) highlight (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WhjG8JQm3Jc) videos (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z1CzbOoYapI) of (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GIeggAWXvWs) JJ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oESA-Appqjo)and now I am torn again. Grrrrrrrr!!

--Jason "someone better post some Shane videos ASAP or my vote may be sold!" Evans

[throatybeard]

Shane/K on Rose:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hzHf2o-SW7Q

[SilkyJ]

I wouldn't say that too loud (if loudness is at all possible on a computer screen). I wrote a whole thing on Shane being the most complete player ever at Duke and almost got myself killed:)


I got 4 years of JJ in cameron as he was my classmate, and eventually we became decent friends. I can't vote against him.

I'll always remeber this Mike Patrick call: "Redick, from another time zone! Got it!"

[TillyGalore]

I voted for Shane, but here's more of JJ being absolutely sick:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hzHf2o-SW7Q

I miss JJ. :(

I just can't vote in the polls any more as I feel like I'm cheating on whomever I don't vote for. I love them all.

[ajtrublu]

This was a really tough one for me. They're both superior players and hard workers, but Shane won my vote because of the effect he had on the entire team as a leader. There were points in his senior season where I knew we would win the game no matter what because I saw in his eyes and his interactions that he simply wouldn't let it be otherwise. I feel like he not only made the most out of his talent (which wasn't on the level of JJ), but he elevated the performance of everyone else when he was on the court.

[ldavid1]

Hard to vote against a guy that brought so much excitement to Duke basketball....it's JJ for me. Nothing against Shane, great guy, great player, but for me I have to go with the guy that got me out of my chair the most.

[JasonEvans]

1pm returns--

It is a runaway. Despite many pro-JJ posts, Shane is leading 58-22. Damn, Shane is DA MAN in these polls. I am really impressed with his performance so far. At this point, I have a hard time seeing him losing to anyone.

-Jason

[grc5]

But you voted for Dawkins over Hurley. If only you knew.

Although I agree that Hurley could be a bad-&^% mother, I don't think he could really personify the Duke-hating movement like JJ did. Who hated Duke in 1992?
It was only after a decade of success (which Hurley and co. began) that people outside of Chapel Hell and College Trailer Park really began to get jealous.

[Carlos]

For me it's Shane and it's an easy choice. JJ was a great scorer from the minute he set foot on campus, but Shane was a guy who subjugated his offensive game to the greater need of the team as a freshman and sophomore when he was more of a defensive stopper than offensive contributor. Then, in the wake of all the departures after 1999, Shane stepped up and showed his offensive game.

So when looking at the two guys what stands out for me are these facts:


In NCAA Tournament games, JJ shot just 34% from three.
In the 4 games in which Duke was eliminated from the NCAA Tournament in JJ's career he shot 26% from three.
In Shane's junior and senior years in the NCAA Tournament he averaged 21 ppg.
In the final game of each of those seasons - on a loss that eliminated Duke from the tournament and the other the National Championship victory - Battier averaged 19 ppg.
In Shane's senior year, during the run to the NCAA Title, he averaged 22.5 ppg.


Who's your daddy?

[JasonEvans]

Damn you Carlos... the highlight package had me all ready to vote for JJ and you went and recalled the argument that was bugging me from the start-- namely that JJ was decidedly un-JJ-like in the NCAA tourney thoughout his career.

--Jason "Arrrrrrr!!! I'm torn again!!!" Evans

[mr. synellinden]

This was an easy choice for me. I loved JJ, but the NCAA tournament failures diminish his favorite-ness slightly, enough to make it a clear decision. It is hard to measure defensive contribution, but I equate the impact of Shane's play defensively to JJ's play offensively. I think he was one of the best of I've seen at taking charges and defensive help. Although it's unquantifiable, I think a lot of people think of team defense, communication and leadership as being hallmarks of Coach K's coaching philosophy and that's a good reason why Shane is winning this easily - we associate him with all of those things, perhaps more than any other player in recent history.

[blazindw]

I agree with everyone who has said this has been the toughest yet. Both were supreme in their own right. My vote will have to go to Shane. He is my favorite player that has ever played in college. Ever. Before Shane went to Duke, I knew about them and followed But I never followed it near as much as when he stepped foot on campus. He brought me "home". Shane, this vote's for you!

[mapei]

Voting against JJ is hard for me - for all the reasons that have been said. I loved watching him play as much as anyone I can remember. He is easily one of my favorites. But Shane is the favorite.

[MulletMan]

Who's your daddy?

[Cameron]

I'll always remeber this Mike Patrick call: "Redick, from another time zone! Got it!"


I remember that silky!! Although, I have my own personal favorite call from Patrick on JJ, and I always share it when a thread like this pops up:

"You don't don't think JJ Redick is feeling it!!! He's the best shooter I ever saw"

-Mike Patrick on JJ, after he hit his third straight triple in a span of 75 seconds in the 2006 ACC title game

Gives me chills every time. Damn I loved him.

[Lord Ash]

As much as I love JJ, this is no contest, much as it will remain no contest in the end.

Shane Battier was THE MAN.

He won. A lot. At EVERY level. And he did it like a MAN; playing HARD D, getting on the floor, taking charges. Shane was a complete student and scholar on the court and off the court. He developed as a player more than any player in Duke history, from a role player to the greatest captain in Duke history. He led by example, he led with his words. He was a THREE TIME NATIONAL DEFENSIVE PLAYER OF THE YEAR, a feat that will NEVER, EVER be repeated. EVER. He brought home a title with as much honor and class as we could ever ask for. And IIRC he is the winngest player in Duke history.

Shane IS Duke to me. Love the rest, and Grant is a close second, but in the end there is only second to compete for.

[RelativeWays]

Love JJ, but Shane Battier is the only Duke player in my mind that I might would choose over Laettner as greatest Duke player ever.

[DevilAlumna]

He's my daddy... Battier for President 2024!

[DukeCO2009]

I've got to go with JJ, although Shane was the man. I remember being in Minneapolis in 2001 and seeing the team come into the hotel with Shane holding the trophy after the title game--he was just so Duke, if that makes any sense. That said, I've always loved guys like Laettner and JJ who weren't quite as nice--they were better than you, and they wanted you to know it. JJ also wins the "wow" factor contest--I can't tell you how many times he made plays that were so insane, all I could do was laugh and say "damn!"

By the way, does anyone have a recording (audio or video) of the PA announcer introducing Redick? I'd love to hear it again--gives me chills. "And at guard, a 6'4" senior from Roanoke, Virginia--nnnumber 4, J! J! Rrrrredick!"

[Cameron]

And IIRC he is the winngest player in Duke history.

You would be correct, sir. In fact, Shane is the ACC's all-time wins leader, as well. And I think Duhon is second. Double in fact, Shane is also the NCAAs all-time leading winner, tied with Kentucky's Wayne Turner, I believe.

And I agree, Lord Ash, Shane was THE most complete player in Duke history, perhaps even the best overall. It's definitely Laettner and Battier at the top, though. I got ripped by a few Grant Hill fans the other day for saying that (and it's not like I didn't like Grant), but I believe this to be correct. Like you pointed out, Shane was college basketball's BEST defensive player for THREE straight seasons as well as one of its MOST DANGEROUS offensive players as a senior. He could simply do it all.

He was Mr. Battier, and no one will ever duplicate it.

[hc5duke]

Weird, this was probably the easiest choice among the elite 8 for me. I'm surprised JJ has as much as 25% right now. No player has made me want to throw something at the TV more than JJ in the post season... maybe with the exception of JWill at the free throw line.

[Cameron]

No player has made me want to throw something at the TV more than JJ in the post season...

JJ was having a GREAT NCAA Tournament his senior season up until he ran into Thug Nation, coached by John Brady. I know he shot rather poorly by his standards in that one, but that's because he was knocked around like a pinball all night, continually being shoved and elbowed every time he approached the middle. I still get p*ssed to this day thinking about how those officials choked on their whistles all night. JJ shot TWO free throws that night. TWO. I found that to be disturbing, seeing as how he looked like he just got the s*** kicked out of him while standing on the sideline as the clock wound down on his career.

I know the long, athletic Temple definitely threw off JJ's outside shot a little, but JJ's mid range and driving game was completely haulted by the officials' want for Duke to be gone. I know how that sounds but I honestly think they were afraid to give Duke the calls near the end of that game, whether it be trips to the free throw line or whatever, in fear of being chastised in the midst of ESPN's famous "Duke gets every thing" parade. Remember how bad the country was ripping some of our game officials that year, for supposedly "cheating for K?" What BS.

Anyway, sorry for the rant. I certainly can't defend JJ's 1 for 11 three-point shooting against Kansas in '03 or his 4 for 14 shooting against Michigan State in '05, but in his final NCAA game, he--and the rest of his team--was robbed.

I have never been more nervous for a Duke game than that night. I wanted JJ to win a championship so bad I could have jumped off a bridge for it to happen. When McRoberts slammed one home to put us up seven with about five minutes to play, I thought it was over. Then is was make up time for the officials... We didn't get ONE call in those last few, fateful minutes. The saddest night of my sports life.

[ArkieDukie]

Basically, what Lord Ash said.

You gotta love a basketball player who will credit Shaolin Monks as his inspiration in a big game (Maryland, right?) and just generally make reporters start scrambling for dictionaries.

[hurleyfor3]

Although I agree that Hurley could be a bad-&^% mother, I don't think he could really personify the Duke-hating movement like JJ did. Who hated Duke in 1992?
It was only after a decade of success (which Hurley and co. began) that people outside of Chapel Hell and College Trailer Park really began to get jealous.

Hurley was the first Duke player other ACC fans specifically and universally taunted. (K-era that is; some of the 60s guys had reputations as dirty players but you could get away with more back then, and I'll at least admit to not having the historical context.) It started his freshman year, in Virginia of all places, as I recall. Maryland wasn't a big deal back then.

EDIT: Check it out, I'm Johnny Dawkins at 555 posts. What a cruel punishment after his victory over Hurley.

[speedevil]

battier

[dukemomLA]

How can anyone vote against Shane. The epitome of Duke. Great player, honest scholar, a future (perhaps) that will equal or go beyond any Duke player in history. Yikes. His potential as a PERSON will probably outweigh his accomplishments as a player.

[bdh21]

Shane Battier IS Duke Basketball!

[JasonEvans]

I finally voted for Battier. The reminder of the Shaolin Monks comment by Shane is what put me over the top. I kept on trying to convince myself that JJ was my vote... and then I realized that if I was trying to convince myself then it probably meant that my vote really should be going the other direction.

--Jason "not that my vote really matters-- this one is a blow-out for Shane" Evans

[buzz]

Battier set himself apart with the best overall post-game comments in Duke history. You just knew it would be good. Also, his attitude and work ethic rubbed off like no other player before or since. A coach's dream. Just to clarify an earlier point though, Stacy Augmon and Tim Duncan also won the national defensive player of the year three times each.

I'm still looking for a good video of that Arizona tip-in. I think that moment epitomized what Shane was about. The dude had fire and just would not be denied.

[ArkieDukie]

I finally voted for Battier. The reminder of the Shaolin Monks comment by Shane is what put me over the top. I kept on trying to convince myself that JJ was my vote... and then I realized that if I was trying to convince myself then it probably meant that my vote really should be going the other direction.

--Jason "not that my vote really matters-- this one is a blow-out for Shane" Evans

Who knows; the outcome of several of these contests might be a little different if we were voting on "best" instead of "favorite" player. This is debated greatly in the Laettner vs Hill poll.

[oso diablo]

my favorite memories of these two...

Battier - by his sophomore season, i found myself just watching Shane on the defensive end. Never watched the ball. Didn't need to, as it seemed that Shane would invariably end up in the mix and make the key defensive play. Time after time.

JJ - in his very first game, as a freshman (against Army, where fellow frosh Shav looked like the 2nd coming), one of the few times i've been able to make it back to Cameron for a game. watched JJ in warmups shooting free throws, and not only did he not miss once, the dude never even hit the rim. It may not seem like much, given what we know now, but it was also amazing.

p.s. i voted Battier... or would have, but life gets in the way sometimes and can't be here every day. Is it too much to ask that the final four polls be open for at least 2 days, regardless of margin?