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Duke1994
03-20-2019, 01:59 PM
Does anyone know if one of our assistant coaches will be in Dayton tonight scouting the NCCU/NDSU game in person?

left_hook_lacey
03-20-2019, 04:08 PM
Does anyone know if one of our assistant coaches will be in Dayton tonight scouting the NCCU/NDSU game in person?

Probably just sent a cardboard cut out of Zion and sat it in the stands. That's all that is needed for this game.

Acymetric
03-20-2019, 04:15 PM
I can't imagine we would have the assistants go through all that travel to scout one of these teams rather than keep them with us working with our players.

Bob Green
03-20-2019, 04:43 PM
It seems reasonable to assume the entire staff will watch the game on TV.

Troublemaker
03-20-2019, 04:44 PM
I can't imagine we would have the assistants go through all that travel to scout one of these teams rather than keep them with us working with our players.

I wouldn't be surprised if we had an assistant or two there. Duke is going to take every opponent seriously, and the remaining coaches can work with the players while the guys on the trip are scouting.

brevity
03-20-2019, 04:46 PM
It seems reasonable to assume the entire staff will watch the game on TV.

And then log in to their secret DBR accounts to read what we have to say.

Acymetric
03-20-2019, 04:48 PM
I wouldn't be surprised if we had an assistant or two there. Duke is going to take every opponent seriously, and the remaining coaches can work with the players while the guys on the trip are scouting.

Wouldn't that make this the only game of the season that our coaches traveled separately to do scouting? Duke takes every opponent seriously, sure, but we don't send assistants on scouting expeditions for any of them during the season and I'm not sure why we would start now instead of preparing as we always do.

DavidBenAkiva
03-20-2019, 04:59 PM
Does anyone know if one of our assistant coaches will be in Dayton tonight scouting the NCCU/NDSU game in person?

Jordan Sperber, AKA HoopsVision68, put together a video where he provides one scouting review of every team in the NCAA Tournament. Here's what he had to say about NCCU and NDSU:

NCCU: "North Carolina Central's offense revolves around Raasean Davis" a 6'9" senior center from Chicago that is averaging about 15 points, 9 rebounds, a steal and a block per game. You can see him operate as the set man in a pick-and-role in the clip below at about the 7:00 minute mark. NDSU is the very next team.
NDSU: "Vinnie Shahid from North Dakota State likes to reject ball screens to get to his right hand." Shahid is a 5'11" junior guard averaging 13 points, 3 rebounds, and 3 steals.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z_mYiV7nOAY

Troublemaker
03-20-2019, 05:02 PM
Wouldn't that make this the only game of the season that our coaches traveled separately to do scouting? Duke takes every opponent seriously, sure, but we don't send assistants on scouting expeditions for any of them during the season and I'm not sure why we would start now instead of preparing as we always do.

I mean, I can think of at least 3 reasons:
(A) NCAA tournament games are more important than the other games, and coaches can sometimes be anal-retentive. Fire up the jet!
(B) The Synergy clips and film on NCCU / NDSU might not be as plentiful or helpful as for power conference teams, and any extra data could help.
(C) When in Maui or other tournament settings, the coaches are sometimes in the stands watching their next opponent, so they must feel like they get something out of the live in-person experience.

All I'm saying is it's possible. I would probably bet against it, too, but since you're saying "I can't imagine", I'm trying to see if I could... imagine why.

Acymetric
03-20-2019, 05:07 PM
I mean, I can think of at least 3 reasons:
(A) NCAA tournament games are more important than the other games, and coaches can sometimes be anal-retentive. Fire up the jet!
(B) The Synergy clips and film on NCCU / NDSU might not be as plentiful or helpful as for power conference teams, and any extra data could help.
(C) When in Maui or other tournament settings, the coaches are sometimes in the stands watching their next opponent, so they must feel like they get something out of the live in-person experience.

Yes...but the key difference is that they are already there. Will you see coaches scouting upcoming opponents before/after some of our games over the course of the tournament? Probably, other schools definitely do this although I can't remember specifically if Duke typically has or not. Will we send them to Dayton? Highly doubtful. (Which is too bad, I assume the OP is in Dayton and was hoping to maybe catch a glimpse of some of the assistants while there, which I admit would be fun)


All I'm saying is it's possible. I would probably bet against it, too, but since you're saying "I can't imagine", I'm trying to see if I could... imagine why.

Your first post implied a much different degree of certainty (in the other direction).

Troublemaker
03-20-2019, 05:18 PM
Your first post implied a much different degree of certainty (in the other direction).

No, it didn't. I wrote "I wouldn't be surprised" (which does not imply certainty) and I wrote it in response to your "I can't imagine", which I specifically bolded.

As an aside, I'm getting pretty annoyed at how often I'm sucked into semantics arguments these days. Which probably means I need to retire from DBR soon :-)


Yes...but the key difference is that they are already there.

Agree with that, but the point was that they must get something out of it. And in combination with my first two points, you can kind of see why they might make the trek.

TruBlu
03-20-2019, 05:24 PM
Dean Smith showed up at a Duke home game to personally scout Duke. It was a short drive from Chapel Hill, and he probably appreciated getting away from a cheating, smelly program for a while. Not sure which year, or if he did this on more than one occasion. Of course he was warmly welcomed by the Crazies.:rolleyes:

proelitedota
03-20-2019, 07:06 PM
Anyone watching the game?

Bob Green
03-20-2019, 07:08 PM
Anyone watching the game?

Yes. NDSU is knocking down a lot of 3 PT FG and are up 28-20.

BandAlum83
03-20-2019, 07:20 PM
Yes. NDSU is knocking down a lot of 3 PT FG and are up 28-20.

I think their true shooting percantage was nearly above 100% at one point!

I bet the under on this. Not looking too good right now.

uh_no
03-20-2019, 07:23 PM
(C) When in Maui or other tournament settings, the coaches are sometimes in the stands watching their next opponent, so they must feel like they get something out of the live in-person experience.


I'm sure coaches can glean plenty from watching on TV. If the department had infinite money, sure they'd probably send someone to the game, or even any potential future opponent's game....but cost IS a factor at some point, and time spent not coaching the team IS a factor. The loss of time coaching while travelling to watch a game for 2 hours plus the cost to get there is not nearly enough to offset the marginal value over simply watching on tv.

Indoor66
03-20-2019, 07:27 PM
There is also wear and tear on the coaches with all of the travel. That is a questionable return on the human and financial investment.

Bob Green
03-20-2019, 07:27 PM
Halftime: NDSU 40, NCCU 34. This is a very competitive game.

arnie
03-20-2019, 07:30 PM
I'm sure coaches can glean plenty from watching on TV. If the department had infinite money, sure they'd probably send someone to the game, or even any potential future opponent's game...but cost IS a factor at some point, and time spent not coaching the team IS a factor. The loss of time coaching while travelling to watch a game for 2 hours plus the cost to get there is not nearly enough to offset the marginal value over simply watching on tv.

The $$ cost of one coach traveling to Dayton and back is zilch compared to that spent on endless recruiting trips and all other very costly b-ball activities. I’ll give you the loss of coaching time argument, don’t believe an extra $1k-$2k means anything to the department.

proelitedota
03-20-2019, 07:35 PM
I think we might have a tight game in the first half, with us anywhere from down a few points to up 10. We have not put away opponents (event overmatched ones) early in the first half with the exception of Eastern Michigan and Miami.

Let's hope we don't get too tight in the second half and just play our brand of basketball.

unclsam1
03-20-2019, 07:38 PM
NDSU is 7 for 14 in 3 pointers at the half.

uh_no
03-20-2019, 07:39 PM
The $$ cost of one coach traveling to Dayton and back is zilch compared to that spent on endless recruiting trips and all other very costly b-ball activities. I’ll give you the loss of coaching time argument, don’t believe an extra $1k-$2k means anything to the department.

recruiting trips have a very large marginal value. this trip would not.

-jk
03-20-2019, 07:43 PM
There is also wear and tear on the coaches with all of the travel. That is a questionable return on the human and financial investment.

The kids shake off travel pretty easily (I remember those days!). I suspect it's not as easy for the coaches.

-jk

OldPhiKap
03-20-2019, 07:44 PM
I would be shocked if we do not have someone there live.

Danke Shane
03-20-2019, 07:45 PM
NDSU is 7 for 14 in 3 pointers at the half.

Did Duke make 7 threes in the entire ACC tournament? Serious question...

DrChainsaw
03-20-2019, 07:48 PM
Did Duke make 7 threes in the entire ACC tournament? Serious question...

And how many free throws? Seemed like all of them...

Bob Green
03-20-2019, 07:50 PM
Did Duke make 7 threes in the entire ACC tournament? Serious question...

Duke made 7 threes against Syracuse in the first game of the ACCT followed by five against UNC and two against FSU for 14 made threes total.

AGDukesky
03-20-2019, 07:51 PM
Did Duke make 7 threes in the entire ACC tournament? Serious question...

7 against Syracuse
5 against UNC
2 against FSU

proelitedota
03-20-2019, 07:56 PM
We're going to have our hands full with NDSU. Need to run them off the 3pt line.

-jk
03-20-2019, 08:01 PM
We're going to have our hands full with NDSU. Need to run them off the 3pt line.

We have a pretty good stat line stopping others’ 3s.

-jk

Indoor66
03-20-2019, 08:07 PM
We're going to have our hands full with NDSU. Need to run them off the 3pt line.

Please. We have an excellent defense against the three and their inside game will be nonexistent.

uh_no
03-20-2019, 08:08 PM
We have a pretty good stat line stopping others’ 3s.

-jk

and a decent record against teams ranked 200 or worse, heck, 50 or worse even.....though i suppose a 1 point win over #165 wake should make me be slightly less cocky....

If this game is within 15 at halftime I'll never post on IC again.

-jk
03-20-2019, 08:11 PM
and a decent record against teams ranked 200 or worse, heck, 50 or worse even....though i suppose a 1 point win over #165 wake should make me be slightly less cocky...

If this game is within 15 at halftime I'll never post on IC again.

How many times have you been kicked off so far?

-jk

proelitedota
03-20-2019, 08:15 PM
We were up 8 on Army at the half.
We were up 7 on Hartford at the half.
We were up 13 on Princeton at the half.
We were up 8 on Wake at the half in the first game.
We were up 1 on Wake at the half in the second game. Down 10 in the second half at one point.

Up 15 by half-time over an overmatched opponent is not the norm for us this year. We do our most damage in the second half.

Acymetric
03-20-2019, 08:16 PM
The tourney flopping has begun...

proelitedota
03-20-2019, 08:27 PM
NCCU made a 22-9 run. Should they win, we need to respect their ability to do exactly that and not let the gas off the pedal if we have a big lead.

Devilwin
03-20-2019, 08:31 PM
I can't imagine we would have the assistants go through all that travel to scout one of these teams rather than keep them with us working with our players.

UVA says hello..

Phredd3
03-20-2019, 08:39 PM
UVA says hello..

But either one of NCCU or NDSU is saying goodbye on Friday. These teams will not even slow us down.

Bob Green
03-20-2019, 08:42 PM
But either one of NCCU or NDSU is saying goodbye on Friday. These teams will not even slow us down.

UVa fans thought the same when facing UMBC last year. Respect the opponent! Respect the game! Respect yourself!

Acymetric
03-20-2019, 08:42 PM
UVA says hello..

Had nothing to do with quality of the teams, I'm not saying they aren't worth scouting, just that there is no reason to do it in person. Now, maybe we have our "video coordinator" or some such there, but it makes no sense to send Nolan/Nate to Dayton for in person scouting rather than keep them with the team focused on managing travel and tourney prep.

Bob Green
03-20-2019, 08:46 PM
Final: NDSU 78, NCCU 74.

Duke will face the Bison.

Reilly
03-20-2019, 08:49 PM
Final: NDSU 78, NCCU 74.

Duke will face the Bison.

NDSUAAS: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Dakota_State_University

Acymetric
03-20-2019, 08:55 PM
Tough game for Central...bring on the Bison!

proelitedota
03-20-2019, 08:57 PM
On to the official scouting thread...

Phredd3
03-20-2019, 10:01 PM
UVa fans thought the same when facing UMBC last year. Respect the opponent! Respect the game! Respect yourself!

If I were coach, I wouldn't be saying that to my team. However, I'd still be thinking it. NDSU will no doubt play hard, but it would take us playing our worst game all season by a pretty wide margin and NDSU shooting absolutely lights out for them to challenge. This is KenPom 200 versus KenPom 2 we're talking about. We are are roughly a 30-point favorite. If this game is close, we are doing something very, very wrong on both ends of the court, and my TV is at real risk of physical damage.

Saratoga2
03-20-2019, 10:22 PM
Yes. NDSU is knocking down a lot of 3 PT FG and are up 28-20.

I watched the entire game. ND State does the things that Duke has trouble with, hitting 3's and very good from the FT line. They are also disciplined and don't turn the ball over a lot. They are smaller and less athletic than Duke, but their qualities will make it an interesting game to watch.

gofurman
03-20-2019, 11:12 PM
I watched the entire game. ND State does the things that Duke has trouble with, hitting 3's and very good from the FT line. They are also disciplined and don't turn the ball over a lot. They are smaller and less athletic than Duke, but their qualities will make it an interesting game to watch.

I want a boring win - not interesting

BandAlum83
03-21-2019, 12:34 AM
If I were coach, I wouldn't be saying that to my team. However, I'd still be thinking it. NDSU will no doubt play hard, but it would take us playing our worst game all season by a pretty wide margin and NDSU shooting absolutely lights out for them to challenge. This is KenPom 200 versus KenPom 2 we're talking about. We are are roughly a 30-point favorite. If this game is close, we are doing something very, very wrong on both ends of the court, and my TV is at real risk of physical damage.

We are KenPom 3

uh_no
03-21-2019, 01:54 AM
UVa fans thought the same when facing UMBC last year. Respect the opponent! Respect the game! Respect yourself!

If duke loses on friday, I will NOT stop posting on DBR, however, should duke lose, I will send a pie to anyone who would commit 2$ to DUMB were Duke to win.

DrChainsaw
03-21-2019, 06:13 AM
We are KenPom 3

It’s over.

Phredd3
03-21-2019, 06:54 AM
We are KenPom 3
Ah, you are correct. But according to AdjEM, we are still closer to 35-point favorites than 30.

arnie
03-21-2019, 07:04 AM
Ah, you are correct. But according to AdjEM, we are still closer to 35-point favorites than 30.

Current Vegas betting lines - 27 to 27.5. Still largest line in tourney.

johnb
03-21-2019, 07:08 AM
The real question: if you were an NDSU assistant, knowing the Bison would likely be playing a top seeded team, would you have requested ACC tourney tickets, which would have allowed you to see 3 potential 1st round opponents at the same time. Highly efficient! And with a few breaks, NDSU might be playing 5 ACC teams in the next few weeks.

It might be hard to argue unavailability of tape (recordings of Zion? Hmmm. I know they’re around here somewhere), but I’d explain I’d get a better feel in person.

MarkD83
03-21-2019, 07:39 AM
The real question: if you were an NDSU assistant, knowing the Bison would likely be playing a top seeded team, would you have requested ACC tourney tickets, which would have allowed you to see 3 potential 1st round opponents at the same time. Highly efficient! And with a few breaks, NDSU might be playing 5 ACC teams in the next few weeks.

It might be hard to argue unavailability of tape (recordings of Zion? Hmmm. I know they’re around here somewhere), but I’d explain I’d get a better feel in person.

Perhaps next year we should create the DBR basketball team and all of us would be assistant coaches that need to scout ACC teams at the ACC tournament?

Devil2
03-21-2019, 09:33 AM
I watched the entire game. ND State does the things that Duke has trouble with, hitting 3's and very good from the FT line. They are also disciplined and don't turn the ball over a lot. They are smaller and less athletic than Duke, but their qualities will make it an interesting game to watch.

Actually Duke is very good at three point defense, keeping opponents off the foul line and creating turnovers.

I watched a lot of the game and felt that NDSU did not throw crisp passes and are in for a rude awakening against Duke

BD80
03-21-2019, 11:16 AM
I mean, I can think of at least 3 reasons:
(A) NCAA tournament games are more important than the other games, and coaches can sometimes be anal-retentive. Fire up the jet!
(B) The Synergy clips and film on NCCU / NDSU might not be as plentiful or helpful as for power conference teams, and any extra data could help.
(C) When in Maui or other tournament settings, the coaches are sometimes in the stands watching their next opponent, so they must feel like they get something out of the live in-person experience.

All I'm saying is it's possible. I would probably bet against it, too, but since you're saying "I can't imagine", I'm trying to see if I could... imagine why.


I would be shocked if we do not have someone there live.

I would think we would at least send one of the younger assistant coaches to prepare a scouting report so that he could get the experience of doing it on his own. Have him brief the team with his findings. This would bring a new energy to the process, and a different voice - something to counter the overconfidence that is bound to seep in. Of course, the rest of the staff will have done the film work per usual, so things won't go off the tracks. Remember, first and foremost, Coach K is a leader, he will rarely pass up such an opportunity.

Also, scouting a team is more than just watching game action, it includes watching the interaction of the team and the coaching staff in the various phases and the various situations.

BandAlum83
03-21-2019, 11:21 AM
Current Vegas betting lines - 27 to 27.5. Still largest line in tourney.

Gonzaga is at 28 against the Fairly Ridiculous Chessboard Knights

BandAlum83
03-21-2019, 11:23 AM
Perhaps next year we should create the DBR basketball team and all of us would be assistant coaches that need to scout ACC teams at the ACC tournament?

I'd offer to keep the stats, but Kedsy clearly gets that job. I guess I can be the guy to hand out towels and Gatorade and sprint to the locker room at half-time.