2019 South Region Thread (Virginia #1)

[pfrduke]

Discuss the teams and predict who will win here.

[Acymetric]

This is the toughest to predict. Half of my brain says Virginia, my heart and the other half of my brain think the first half is an idiot. I'm also just not sold on Tennessee as a legit contender. There are a lot of weak teams and tournament chokers in the top half (by seed) of this bracket. Could see Cincinnati making it to the Final Four...will need some time to settle on my vote for this one.

[gotoguy]

KSU and UT were both beaten last year by Loyola-Chicago and UVa plays similarly on offense and is better defensively. Plus K-State's best player was in a boot today on the selection show and his status is a ? for the next two weeks. So the Hoos break their glass ceiling.

[brevity]

I know the poll is limited to 15 options, but if ever there were a time to gather votes for a 16 seed...

Not much discussion yet, but I just wanted to point out that almost all discussion of and hand-wringing about Virginia's region last year was rendered moot quickly, and not just because of UMBC. Remember all that stuff about "It's so unfair that Virginia gets Kentucky and Arizona in the same half of their bracket"? That was funny. Arizona lost to Buffalo. Kentucky ended up playing its Sweet 16 game against the team that beat the team that beat Virginia, and Kentucky lost. I'm pretty sure no one, in DBR or the rest of the planet, took one look at the bracket on Selection Sunday and said "Kansas State should look out for Loyola Chicago."

It's a bit of a do-over with Virginia and Kansas State once again in the top half, and Cincinnati and Tennessee in the bottom half, but nobody knows anything.

[pfrduke]

First round schedule/Kenpom odds for the South:

Thursday
[26]Villanova (-1) vs. [31]St. Mary's (7:20, TBS)
[10]Purdue (-13) vs. [112]Old Dominion (9:50, TBS)

Friday
[32]Cincinnati (-1) vs. [36]Iowa (12:15, CBS)
[44]Mississippi (+1) vs. [38]Oklahoma (12:40, TruTV)
[23]Kansas State (-6) vs. [75]UC Irvine (2:00, TBS)
[8]Tennessee (-15) vs. [129]Colgate (2:45, CBS)
[1]Virginia (-22) vs. [167]Gardner-Webb (3:10, TruTV)
[12]Wisconsin (-5) vs. [43]Oregon (4:30, TBS)

[Phredd3]

People (not so much DBR, but pundits) seem to be gun-shy about picking Virginia, given recent history. I think they're going to be playing with a (very disciplined) chip on their shoulder and looking for a Duke rematch. I think this is the year to fear UVA.

[English]

First round schedule/Kenpom odds for the South:

Thursday
[26]Villanova (-1) vs. [31]St. Mary's (7:20, TBS)
[10]Purdue (-13) vs. [112]Old Dominion (9:50, TBS)

Friday
[32]Cincinnati (-1) vs. [36]Iowa (12:15, CBS)
[44]Mississippi (+1) vs. [38]Oklahoma (12:40, TruTV)
[23]Kansas State (-6) vs. [75]UC Irvine (2:00, TBS)
[8]Tennessee (-15) vs. [129]Colgate (2:45, CBS)
[1]Virginia (-22) vs. [167]Gardner-Webb (3:10, TruTV)
[12]Wisconsin (-5) vs. [43]Oregon (4:30, TBS)

So, 5-out-of-8 of these matchups are single-digit KenPom spreads, and 3 are single-point spreads? Sheesh. I would definitely not have guessed that coming in. The NCAAT does kooky things to teams that don't seem all that close in quality, so when they ARE close...look out.

[Acymetric]

First round schedule/Kenpom odds for the South:

Thursday
[26]Villanova (-1) vs. [31]St. Mary's (7:20, TBS)
[10]Purdue (-13) vs. [112]Old Dominion (9:50, TBS)

Friday
[32]Cincinnati (-1) vs. [36]Iowa (12:15, CBS)
[44]Mississippi (+1) vs. [38]Oklahoma (12:40, TruTV)
[23]Kansas State (-6) vs. [75]UC Irvine (2:00, TBS)
[8]Tennessee (-15) vs. [129]Colgate (2:45, CBS)
[1]Virginia (-22) vs. [167]Gardner-Webb (3:10, TruTV)
[12]Wisconsin (-5) vs. [43]Oregon (4:30, TBS)

This lines up quite nicely with my upset predictions...very comforting.

[DarkstarWahoo]

People (not so much DBR, but pundits) seem to be gun-shy about picking Virginia, given recent history. I think they're going to be playing with a (very disciplined) chip on their shoulder and looking for a Duke rematch. I think this is the year to fear UVA.

I'm one of those people, although I'm a Chicken Little even under good circumstances. A lot of it was the way they looked against FSU. Losing to FSU is nothing to be ashamed of, but they went into UMBC mode pretty early. There were about nine minutes left when Kyle Guy went barreling into an FSU defender looking to make a 10-point basket, and Jerome had some awful out-of-rhythm threes at the end (although those were late enough that he didn't have much choice). It was by far the worst I've seen them look this year.

Factor in that they haven't played two good halves against a decent opponent since...UNC in February? The "slow start and come back in the second half" tendencies seem to be playing with fire, and if they let Gardner-Webb hang around for a while, the pressure will really start to mount.

I'll feel a lot better if they can get through the opening weekend. That's when I think the pressure would lift.

[UrinalCake]

People (not so much DBR, but pundits) seem to be gun-shy about picking Virginia, given recent history. I think they're going to be playing with a (very disciplined) chip on their shoulder and looking for a Duke rematch. I think this is the year to fear UVA.

They may have a chip on their shoulder, but the question has always been whether their style of play can be effective in a tournament setting, where the pace automatically slows down and having guards who can create offense is so crucial. Three point shooting in large, unfamiliar arenas also tends to be more difficult. And when they fall behind they have a harder time coming back since lulling their opponents to sleep no longer works.

I do think that UVA has more of a traditional offense this season than in years past, but you can’t blame fans for taking a wait-and-see approach when it comes to their tournament success.

[jhmoss1812]

I do think that UVA has more of a traditional offense this season than in years past, but you can’t blame fans for taking a wait-and-see approach when it comes to their tournament success.

Definitely understand the wait-and-see approach by other fanbases. I definitely do the same when it comes to other teams. Fortunately, what people do in their brackets has no bearing on the actual outcome of games. In addition, if UVA does have a strong run in the tourney this year, I'll probably also win my brackets. It'll either be a win-win or a lose-lose situation for me.

[BandAlum83]

Definitely understand the wait-and-see approach by other fanbases. I definitely do the same when it comes to other teams. Fortunately, what people do in their brackets has no bearing on the actual outcome of games. In addition, if UVA does have a strong run in the tourney this year, I'll probably also win my brackets. It'll either be a win-win or a lose-lose situation for me.

In the metaphysical and quantum physics worlds can you really be sure about that?

[jhmoss1812]

In the metaphysical and quantum physics worlds can you really be sure about that?

I guess not lol. I almost put a question mark after that sentence instead of a period too.

[Phredd3]

I do think that UVA has more of a traditional offense this season than in years past, but you can’t blame fans for taking a wait-and-see approach when it comes to their tournament success.

No blame assigned. I was simply expressing my (apparently) contrary view. And my sympathy lies especially with the UVA fan base. I know when examining the Duke draw, I look for demons around every bracket corner. After last year, UVA fans must be especially prone to finding such demons, even where they are least probable!

[Wahoo2000]

Here's something for the thread: If you ARE gun shy about picking UVA to the Final Four, go with a deep sleeper. Since 2014, UVA has been a 1 seed 4 times, a 2 seed once, and a 5 seed once. Here are the winners of those regions:

2014 - UVA 1 seed, region won by UConn (7 seed)
2015 - UVA 2 seed, region won by Michigan (7 seed)
2016 - UVA 1 seed, region won by Cuse (10 seed)
2017 - UVA 5 seed, region won by South Carolina (7 seed)
2018 - UVA 1 seed, region won by Loyola (11 seed)
2019 - UVA 1 seed, region won by......... ?

FYI - the 7 seed in the South this year is Cinci........ I'm just sayin' if you're a "trends" degenerate....... there MIGHT be some value there.


***FYI, while I don't charge for my picks, I'm happy to receive a 5% "finders fee" of your winnings ;-)

[Phredd3]

QED.

[BandAlum83]

Here's something for the thread: If you ARE gun shy about picking UVA to the Final Four, go with a deep sleeper. Since 2014, UVA has been a 1 seed 4 times, a 2 seed once, and a 5 seed once. Here are the winners of those regions:

2014 - UVA 1 seed, region won by UConn (7 seed)
2015 - UVA 2 seed, region won by Michigan (7 seed)
2016 - UVA 1 seed, region won by Cuse (10 seed)
2017 - UVA 5 seed, region won by South Carolina (7 seed)
2018 - UVA 1 seed, region won by Loyola (11 seed)
2019 - UVA 1 seed, region won by..... ?

FYI - the 7 seed in the South this year is Cinci.... I'm just sayin' if you're a "trends" degenerate.... there MIGHT be some value there.


***FYI, while I don't charge for my picks, I'm happy to receive a 5% "finders fee" of your winnings ;-)

In the immortal words of the fictional Spock: "Fascinating"

[jhmoss1812]

No blame assigned. I was simply expressing my (apparently) contrary view. And my sympathy lies especially with the UVA fan base. I know when examining the Duke draw, I look for demons around every bracket corner. After last year, UVA fans must be especially prone to finding such demons, even where they are least probable!

You should check out our home board. It's beyond comical. It's not PackPride bad but the paranoia is sky high.

[Wahoo2000]

You should check out our home board. It's beyond comical. It's not PackPride bad but the paranoia is sky high.

Indeed. The proverbial cat in a room full of rocking chairs is in a coma by comparison.

The tension is packed so tightly it has fused diamond-like and is uncut-able.

.......crickets........

Ok, I think that's enough awful jokes for me...... must be the nerves.

[BandAlum83]

Indeed. The proverbial cat in a room full of rocking chairs is in a coma by comparison.

The tension is packed so tightly it has fused diamond-like and is uncut-able.

....crickets....

Ok, I think that's enough awful jokes for me... must be the nerves.

Do you guys hang out on the UVA boards much, or is this your preferred location for talking college hoops?

[sagegrouse]

Indeed. The proverbial cat in a room full of rocking chairs is in a coma by comparison.

The tension is packed so tightly it has fused diamond-like and is uncut-able.

....crickets....

Ok, I think that's enough awful jokes for me... must be the nerves.

What's worse is that you have to wait until Friday. Courage.

As to the Sunday game, I have no clue -- every time I saw a score on Ole Miss or Oklahoma they seemed to be losing. I see Ole Miss at least had a winning record in conference.

[Wahoo2000]

Do you guys hang out on the UVA boards much, or is this your preferred location for talking college hoops?

I'm here as frequently as there. Maybe this week, a little more here. There's a lot of sphincter-tightening going on over there and I need to be in a more "relaxed" environment for my own sanity, lol.

[jhmoss1812]

Do you guys hang out on the UVA boards much, or is this your preferred location for talking college hoops?

I probably spend the most time on Rivals basketball board. The rest of my time is split between TheSabre, here, and a few other boards. This is definitely my favorite non-UVA board though

[proelitedota]

I'm here as frequently as there. Maybe this week, a little more here. There's a lot of sphincter-tightening going on over there and I need to be in a more "relaxed" environment for my own sanity, lol.

I tried going to the sabre forum, but the format is unreadable. How do i get a regular forum format?

[W&LHoo]

I tried going to the sabre forum, but the format is unreadable. How do i get a regular forum format?

The format at the Sabre is appalling, and is part of what sent me into foreign lands looking for basketball talk. Sadly, they have die hards over there who love it for reasons escaping and reasoned understanding.

[Wahoo2000]

I tried going to the sabre forum, but the format is unreadable. How do i get a regular forum format?

They don't offer it. It's been a thorn in my side for years, and is becoming untenable. The *only* thing that makes it bearable is that there's a notification/alert whenever someone responds to one of your posts so you can keep up with things.

Inevitably, the same topic(s)/questions are brought up ad nauseam, and the same thoughts/comments are hashed and rehashed and then hashed again. It's like walking a fine line between boring and infuriating. You really have to *sift* for fresh content there.

[Wahoo2000]

The format at the Sabre is appalling, and is part of what sent me into foreign lands looking for basketball talk. Sadly, they have die hards over there who love it for reasons escaping and reasoned understanding.

There are a few too many over there with the old codger mindset - any change is bad change. "Why try something new when I'm already used to this?"

Really crappy mindset for people representing what they like to describe as a forward-thinking university. Ugh.

[Acymetric]

The format at the Sabre is appalling, and is part of what sent me into foreign lands looking for basketball talk. Sadly, they have die hards over there who love it for reasons escaping and reasoned understanding.

I suspect it helps keep out the riff-raff, at least.

[W&LHoo]

I suspect it helps keep out the riff-raff, at least.

Honestly, it may draw them in. There are some great posters there, but not as high a percentage as there ought to be.

[UrinalCake]

You should check out our home board. It's beyond comical. It's not PackPride bad but the paranoia is sky high.

In 2015 I was paranoid about losing in the first round. Keep in mind we had lost in the first round 2 out of the previous 3 seasons in monumental upsets. My only goal as a fan that year was to escape humiliation. And things worked out just fine.

[akg4y]

I continue to maintain that the idea that we (UVA) choke/underperform in the Tourney due to our style is overblown. We've underperformed without a doubt but those that have followed the saga closely know the reasons for the losses each year.

We've been good for 5 years.

2014 we played an underseeded Michigan State team that IIRC was either #1 or #2 pick to win it all per Vegas odds, I cant remember a time where a 4 seed had those odds. We lost a toughly contested game by 2.

2015 we again played an underseeded Michigan State team and were dealing with both a late season broken finger to Justin Anderson (who was never the same after he came back.. he was en fuego from 3 before he got hurt) as well as a late season appendectomy for Anderson, and again lost a tough game by 6.

2016 we made the Elite 8 and had a 16 point lead on Syracuse with 14 minutes to go in the second half. We blew it. Thats March, and we should have won, but we were minutes away from 'Playing to expectation' if it wasnt for some inexplicable boneheaded plays. We killed their full court press multiple times but missed bunnies after doing so, completely uncharacteristic and not at all a reflection of 'UVA's style doesnt translate to the tournament.'

2017 we actually didnt underperform, we just werent very good and lost to a higher seeded Florida team (that was the year we lost Austin Nichols after 1 game).

2018 we lost Hunter at the end of the ACC tournament. We still should have beaten UMBC but clearly Hunter as a lottery pick was a huge loss, we had no time to get used to not having him, and we were not a 1 seed without him. Get a hot shooting game from any opponent and we were much more vulnerable. Our style probably hurt us here but not as much as losing the best defender on the team and best one on one scorer.


Teams get upset in March, it happens. Couple that with the matchups we were given the first year, injuries in 2-3 years, and just plain old not being good one year basically explains most of our performance. Lets just hope we stay healthy this year and prove the detractors wrong.

[Acymetric]

I continue to maintain that the idea that we (UVA) choke/underperform in the Tourney due to our style is overblown.

Sorry, who was the first 1 seed to lose to a 16?

Tony Bennett is a good coach. UVA is a good team (and has been for a while). UVA is underachieving in the tournament. Don't try to pretend it isn't happening.

Also, don't feel ashamed, especially not here...we certainly have our own underachievement stories over the past 15 years (with some notable high notes as well).

[duketaylor]

Sorry, who was the first 1 seed to lose to a 16?

Tony Bennett is a good coach. UVA is a good team (and has been for a while). UVA is underachieving in the tournament. Don't try to pretend it isn't happening.

Also, don't feel ashamed, especially not here...we certainly have our own underachievement stories over the past 15 years (with some notable high notes as well).

Yeah, I was at the Mercer game in RBC, sitting on the floor in front of the Mercer student section. That was a tough game. I think UVA does well this tournament, as FF well. Just my guess. Yet, I understand their consternation.

[devildeac]

Yeah, I was at the Mercer game in RBC, sitting on the floor in front of the Mercer student section. That was a tough game. I think UVA does well this tournament, as FF well. Just my guess. Yet, I understand their consternation.

Don't be bashful. You can also blame Bob Green for that one. :p

[ns7]

Yeah, I was at the Mercer game in RBC, sitting on the floor in front of the Mercer student section. That was a tough game. I think UVA does well this tournament, as FF well. Just my guess. Yet, I understand their consternation.

We won the tournament the year after losing to Mercer in the opening round. I could see Virginia achieving the same feat this year. I would pick Virginia to win if I weren't a Duke fan.

[JetpackJesus]

Yeah, I was at the Mercer game in RBC, sitting on the floor in front of the Mercer student section. That was a tough game. I think UVA does well this tournament, as FF well. Just my guess. Yet, I understand their consternation.

If it makes you feel better, I was at Lehigh and VCU. I was also at the 2002 Final Four and had to watch MD win a title. That might have been more painful than the VCU loss.

I've pretty much resolved to never go to an NCAA tournament again.

[jhmoss1812]

Sorry, who was the first 1 seed to lose to a 16?

Tony Bennett is a good coach. UVA is a good team (and has been for a while). UVA is underachieving in the tournament. Don't try to pretend it isn't happening.

Also, don't feel ashamed, especially not here...we certainly have our own underachievement stories over the past 15 years (with some notable high notes as well).

He didn't pretend it's not happening. I don't think there's many UVA fans out there that think we haven't underperformed in the NCAA tourney. He just said that the underperforming being linked to our style of play is overblown.

[OldPhiKap]

Two points:

1. UVA is an outstanding team this year. As they were last year.

2. It was inevitable that a #1 seed would lose to a #16 seed. I am glad it was not us that was first — but it surely could have been.

68 teams started this tournament, all fulll of hope and joy. 52 of them will be out by the end of the weekend. The math is absolutely brutal. Take nothing for granted, pride goeth before the fall.

[Wahoo2000]

Sorry, who was the first 1 seed to lose to a 16?

Tony Bennett is a good coach. UVA is a good team (and has been for a while). UVA is underachieving in the tournament. Don't try to pretend it isn't happening.

Also, don't feel ashamed, especially not here...we certainly have our own underachievement stories over the past 15 years (with some notable high notes as well).

Oh, we've GROSSLY underperformed in the tournament. It's just not because of our style.

Cuse and UMBC were mental issues/chokes/whatever you want to call it. Our "style" might've made it harder to try and rally vs UMBC, and it had almost zero impact on the Cuse loss.

MSU was the better team on those respective days. I don't think UVA played poorly in either of those games.

I don't even enter 2017 into the equation. We were beaten by a higher seed, and we weren't that good that season once Wilkins became injured/limited anyway.

[Acymetric]

So I was already thinking this reading Kedsy's post in the upsets thread, and now I'm really thinking it...it does appear that upsets correlate with slow pace of play to at least some degree. I know Kedsy uses it as part of his upset prediction criteria, I wonder if it is predictive of upsets generally on its own.

Another thing that I've been thinking about: is there a reason that Virginia can't play a more aggressive offensive style? Obviously their defense forces slow possessions for the opponent, but why is it necessary that they play slow on offense? I wonder what the same defensive approach mixed with an offense that pushes the ball would look like?

[akg4y]

So I was already thinking this reading Kedsy's post in the upsets thread, and now I'm really thinking it...it does appear that upsets correlate with slow pace of play to at least some degree. I know Kedsy uses it as part of his upset prediction criteria, I wonder if it is predictive of upsets generally on its own.

Another thing that I've been thinking about: is there a reason that Virginia can't play a more aggressive offensive style? Obviously their defense forces slow possessions for the opponent, but why is it necessary that they play slow on offense? I wonder what the same defensive approach mixed with an offense that pushes the ball would look like?

Couple of things here... one is it is hard to some degree to separate how much of the pace of play is because of our defense versus how much is because we are supposedly 'deliberate' on offense. I think they go in hand in hand... the defense forcing teams to take 25-30 seconds of the shot clock and completely removing transition is a huge part of the change in pace of play, but mostly because of what we do to the *other* team, not what we are doing on our own offensive possessions. The part of our play on offense that is impacted is that we do not get many transition baskets because we arent gambling for steals, blocking a ton of shots, etc, and if we dont have a definite advantage then we pull back and get into our half court offense which is the 2nd or 3rd most efficient in the country. This year's team is a bit different compared to prior teams in that they can push it with specific lineups (Guy/Jerome/Hunter + any of Clark/Huff/Diakite) but in general because of the way our defense is packed in that doesnt usually lead to anyone being ahead of the opponents defense when going to the other way.

[Native]

Last year's UVA team was KenPom's 30th-best team in adjusted offensive efficiency. This year's team is 2nd overall in adjO. They're still near dead last in terms of tempo, but their eFG% has gone from 98th-best to 18th-best.

The really interesting thing about the South region is — assuming their corner of the bracket goes chalk — a potential Sweet Sixteen date with 4-seed Kansas State (342nd in tempo, 4th in adjD) or 5-seed Wisconsin (332nd in tempo, 3rd in adjD). Both of those teams seem very similar to UVa stylistically, so can either of them beat the Hoos at their own game?

[rsvman]

UVa wins a lot of games because they are disciplined, seldom turn the ball over, and they shoot well. The slow tempo also helps, for the most part, especially against teams that like to run, because it takes teams out of their accustomed rhythm.

But it's a double-edged sword. If UVa gets ahead, they are tough to beat. But if they get behind, especially if they get behind by more than a few points when it's late into the second half, they have a hard time catching up. To me it seems that because they play deliberately all the time they don't really know how to play with urgency. When they try, they just take bad shots. Again, this is just how it appears to me and may not be true at all, but it seems that because they always play deliberately (slowly, if you will), that it's really hard for them to go into any other gear.

Mind you, it works the vast majority of the time. What do they have this year, three total losses? It's amazing, really. But in a one-and-done situation, if you can get them behind, the clock becomes a real enemy.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

UVa wins a lot of games because they are disciplined, seldom turn the ball over, and they shoot well. The slow tempo also helps, for the most part, especially against teams that like to run, because it takes teams out of their accustomed rhythm.

But it's a double-edged sword. If UVa gets ahead, they are tough to beat. But if they get behind, especially if they get behind by more than a few points when it's late into the second half, they have a hard time catching up. To me it seems that because they play deliberately all the time they don't really know how to play with urgency. When they try, they just take bad shots. Again, this is just how it appears to me and may not be true at all, but it seems that because they always play deliberately (slowly, if you will), that it's really hard for them to go into any other gear.

Mind you, it works the vast majority of the time. What do they have this year, three total losses? It's amazing, really. But in a one-and-done situation, if you can get them behind, the clock becomes a real enemy.

I know this narrative of "UVA can't score or comeback" is pretty tried and true, but it doesn't feel like it applies this year. They have some shooters who can score in bunches. I think this year's team is much better equipped for a deep run.

[FerryFor50]

I know this narrative of "UVA can't score or comeback" is pretty tried and true, but it doesn't feel like it applies this year. They have some shooters who can score in bunches. I think this year's team is much better equipped for a deep run.

They had those shooters last year, too. Difference last year was that Hunter was injured.

But they've had scorers in previous years. Don't forget, they had Malcolm Brogden, Mariol Shayok and Justin Anderson in 2014, when they got taken down by 7 seed Michigan St.

And they had Guy, Shayok, London Perrantes, Jerome and Devon Hall when they got waxed by Florida in 2017.
https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/boxscores/2017-03-18-florida.html

The issue is not their players; it's the system. Bennett has proven to be a consistent coach for most of the season, but he's had issues in the tournament because a) the pace doesn't lend itself to comebacks and b) their defense tends to get into foul trouble outside of the ACC. There's a reason Shayok went from 8.9ppg in his junior year at UVA to 18.6 ppg at Iowa St.

https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/marial-shayok-1.html

[devildeac]

They had those shooters last year, too. Difference last year was that Hunter was injured.

But they've had scorers in previous years. Don't forget, they had Malcolm Brogden, Mariol Shayok and Justin Anderson in 2014, when they got taken down by 7 seed Michigan St.

And they had Guy, Shayok, London Perrantes, Jerome and Devon Hall when they got waxed by Florida in 2017.
https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/boxscores/2017-03-18-florida.html

The issue is not their players; it's the system. Bennett has proven to be a consistent coach for most of the season, but he's had issues in the tournament because a) the pace doesn't lend itself to comebacks and b) their defense tends to get into foul trouble outside of the ACC. There's a reason Shayok went from 8.9ppg in his junior year at UVA to 18.6 ppg at Iowa St.

https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/marial-shayok-1.html

Well-played.

[FerryFor50]

Well-played.

I made sure to double check the box scores of their losses. Each loss had one or two key players with 4 or 5 fouls. Pack line doesn't work everywhere. :rolleyes:

[UVa1981]

Do you guys hang out on the UVA boards much, or is this your preferred location for talking college hoops?

I spend most of my board time on The Sabre, with a small amount of time on Rivals.

When it comes to other teams', this is my favorite for the simple reason that the level of discussion is very high here.

[UVa1981]

It was inevitable that a #1 seed would lose to a #16 seed. I am glad it was not us that was first — but it surely could have been.

The public at large seems not to note that, almost without exception every team playing in the NCAAs is a good team; that's how they make the field.

Bennett himself is of the view that there is just not the separation between teams that there used to be. I agree with that view. Among other things, witness all the international players now populating NCAA teams. Virginia has 4 of them: Diakite, Salt, Stattman, and Badocci.

As an interesting footnote to the UMBC loss, their team was playing that game for their coach's son (whose grandfather was an assistant at UVa under Holland), who was in the course of a years long fight against serious illness.

[TruBlu]

I spend most of my board time on The Sabre, with a small amount of time on Rivals.

When it comes to other teams', this is my favorite for the simple reason that the level of discussion is very high here.

Bill Walton does not post on DBR, however someone on DBR is pot committed.

[JetpackJesus]

Bill Walton does not post on DBR, however someone on DBR is pot committed.

I'd say we can't know that for sure, but I've never seen a poster incoherent enough to potentially be Walton.

[Indoor66]

I'd say we can't know that for sure, but I've never seen a poster incoherent enough to potentially be Walton.

How high can I fly?

[DarkstarWahoo]

But they've had scorers in previous years. Don't forget, they had Malcolm Brogden, Mariol Shayok and Justin Anderson in 2014, when they got taken down by 7 seed Michigan St.

...

And they had Guy, Shayok, London Perrantes, Jerome and Devon Hall when they got waxed by Florida in 2017.


2015, not 2014. Shayok was a freshman averaging 3.8 points per game. And as mentioned before, that was the year Anderson broke his hand and had his appendix out late in the season and came back and played like butt.

Shayok always had sort of a difficult relationship with the UVA offense - he wanted to run and freelance, and that didn't fit with Bennett's style. (On the other hand, he saved us in the first round in 2017 against Kevin Keatts and UNC-Wilmington, when no one else was scoring and Bennett basically told him, "Go get buckets.") I'm thrilled he's doing well at Iowa State - it's a much better situation for him.

Similarly, Jerome and Guy were freshmen in 2017. Guy had a man bun and averaged 7.5 points per game. Jerome averaged 4.3. That team had zero inside presence and a miscast Perrantes as the alpha dog. And for what it's worth, they went exactly as far in the tournament as their seed would indicate. Screw Austin Nichols.

I also have a half-baked theory that Bennett has the same issue as Bobby Cox did when he was managing the Braves - that he takes the regular season more seriously than anyone else. It results in gaudy regular-season records, but it means his teams run into trouble when everyone else is locked in. In Cox's case, it also meant many of his players were more worn out than their postseason opponents after a long season of grinding. I don't know if I think that part translates to UVA. Also, I can't back any of it up.

[MChambers]

I also have a half-baked theory that Bennett has the same issue as Bobby Cox did when he was managing the Braves - that he takes the regular season more seriously than anyone else. It results in gaudy regular-season records, but it means his teams run into trouble when everyone else is locked in. In Cox's case, it also meant many of his players were more worn out than their postseason opponents after a long season of grinding. I don't know if I think that part translates to UVA. Also, I can't back any of it up.

Interesting. I always thought Cox had his team wound too tight for the postseason.

[duke4ever19]

I suspect it helps keep out the riff-raff, at least.

The Sabre is easily the worst fan forum I've encountered, in terms of lay-out and the membership. If there are moderators, they either aren't active, or they don't care about what is said. Those are the bottom-of-the-barrel of UVA fans, I hope.

[DarkstarWahoo]

The Sabre is easily the worst fan forum I've encountered, in terms of lay-out and the membership. If there are moderators, they either aren't active, or they don't care about what is said. Those are the bottom-of-the-barrel of UVA fans, I hope.

The only thing I'll say in its defense is that this season and week have been a uniquely neurotic time for UVA fans. But yeah, there are a lot more jerks there than there used to be. Maybe bandwagoners after we got good? I don't know how the mods here deal with the bandwagon issue, if it exists here in any way similar to the Sabre.

[duke4ever19]

The only thing I'll say in its defense is that this season and week have been a uniquely neurotic time for UVA fans. But yeah, there are a lot more jerks there than there used to be. Maybe bandwagoners after we got good? I don't know how the mods here deal with the bandwagon issue, if it exists here in any way similar to the Sabre.

I'm not talking about recently. I'm saying overall, that is the worst fan forum I've ever visited. Toxic. Worse than IC.

[UVa1981]

The Sabre is easily the worst fan forum I've encountered, in terms of lay-out and the membership.

The Sabre has a split personality: the Edge board, which is by subscription, has pretty good discussion, but not much activity; the regular basketball board has a lot of activity, a lot of angst, and discussions that are rarely detailed and insightful. And, as I think one of my fellow Wahoos said, topics are discussed, hashed, and re-hashed. That is leavened by the fact that a number of us are well acquainted and know which posts to read and which to ignore.

[NSDukeFan]

The Sabre has a split personality: the Edge board, which is by subscription, has pretty good discussion, but not much activity; the regular basketball board has a lot of activity, a lot of angst, and discussions that are rarely detailed and insightful. And, as I think one of my fellow Wahoos said, topics are discussed, hashed, and re-hashed. That is leavened by the fact that a number of us are well acquainted and know which posts to read and which to ignore.

The bolded would never happen here. 🤔

[sagegrouse]

I spend most of my board time on The Sabre, with a small amount of time on Rivals.

When it comes to other teams', this is my favorite for the simple reason that the level of discussion is very high here.

Well, as my mother-in-law used to say, "Flattery will get you everywhere."

[weezie]

I wonder if Tony has ever been approached by the pros? Is that defense the thing that keeps him out of the mix?

[MChambers]

I wonder if Tony has ever been approached by the pros? Is that defense the thing that keeps him out of the mix?

It’s that the only franchise for which he would leave UVa is Golden State and that job isn’t open. He left his heart in San Francisco, after all.

[sagegrouse]

I wonder if Tony has ever been approached by the pros? Is that defense the thing that keeps him out of the mix?


It’s that the only franchise for which he would leave UVa is Golden State and that job isn’t open. He left his heart in San Francisco, after all.

In my economic observations of the world of head basketball coaches, his job at Virginia is superior to almost any NBA job:
(a) He can make a ton of money, viz. Coach K.
(b) Unlike almost every coach in the NBA, he ain't gonna be fired, so the money stream can be viewed as a lengthy annuity, not just an annual salary plus bonus plus other income.
(c) He doesn't have a basketball boss, whereas in the NBA he would have a GM, a team president and an owner -- which affects point (b).
(d) Unless there is a family preference to be elsewhere (big city, and so forth), he has no reason to leave Charlottesville, where he is far more than a minor deity, as opposed to being just another coach in an NBA city.

I suppose the major negative of college coaching is the need to recruit. He seems comfortable with recruiting HS players, but I haven't heard much about his feelings for the recruitment trail.

[CDu]

In my economic observations of the world of head basketball coaches, his job at Virginia is superior to almost any NBA job:
(a) He can make a ton of money, viz. Coach K.
(b) Unlike almost every coach in the NBA, he ain't gonna be fired, so the money stream can be viewed as a lengthy annuity, not just an annual salary plus bonus plus other income.
(c) He doesn't have a basketball boss, whereas in the NBA he would have a GM, a team president and an owner -- which affects point (b).
(d) Unless there is a family preference to be elsewhere (big city, and so forth), he has no reason to leave Charlottesville, where he is far more than a minor deity, as opposed to be just another coach in an NBA city.

I suppose the major negative of college coaching is the need to recruit. He seems comfortable with recruiting HS players, but I haven't heard much about his feelings for the recruitment trail.

All of these are true. Plus the fact that his system wouldn’t be as effective in the NBA, where too many guys can shoot and spacing is better.

[MChambers]

In my economic observations of the world of head basketball coaches, his job at Virginia is superior to almost any NBA job:
(a) He can make a ton of money, viz. Coach K.
(b) Unlike almost every coach in the NBA, he ain't gonna be fired, so the money stream can be viewed as a lengthy annuity, not just an annual salary plus bonus plus other income.
(c) He doesn't have a basketball boss, whereas in the NBA he would have a GM, a team president and an owner -- which affects point (b).
(d) Unless there is a family preference to be elsewhere (big city, and so forth), he has no reason to leave Charlottesville, where he is far more than a minor deity, as opposed to being just another coach in an NBA city.

I suppose the major negative of college coaching is the need to recruit. He seems comfortable with recruiting HS players, but I haven't heard much about his feelings for the recruitment trail.


All of these are true. Plus the fact that his system wouldn’t be as effective in the NBA, where too many guys can shoot and spacing is better.

Now that my tongue is out of my cheek, I agree with both of you. He’s better off at UVa, unless he really wants to coach the most talented players.

[CoachJ10]

Has been called for 5 fouls the entire game...

[DarkstarWahoo]

Has been called for 5 fouls the entire game...

I’m reminded of the year they beat UVA by one (DiVicenzo tip-in when he was a freshman) when they went the last 15 minutes of the game without being called for a foul. Must have just been great defense!

[Acymetric]

Dammit Cincy.

Meanwhile Oklahoma is absolutely shredding Ole Miss.

[Bob Green]

Virginia game is underway - good luck to all our resident Wahoos!

[proelitedota]

UVA looking tight. :eek:

[Bob Green]

At the Under 12 media timeout, Gardner Webb 17 - Virginia 10. The Cavaliers have committed 6 turnovers already. I suspect cuticles are starting to bleed in Charlottesville.

[ChillinDuke]

Good luck to the resident Wahoos is right!

But oh boy, need to turn it up, boys.

- Chillin

[bbosbbos]

I think uva will win.

[AGDukesky]

Not exactly the start UVA was hoping for

[BandAlum83]

10 minutes in and Gardner-Webb on Pace for 88 points against UVA defense?

What on earth is going on?

[bundabergdevil]

(W)hoo boy, not a good look for UVA to start. ACC is NOT putting on a good show so far....

[BandAlum83]

What would be the repercussions of a #1 seed UVA losing to a #16 seed 2 years in a row?

Could Bennet stay on as coach? Would it break him? Would he quit coaching?

Not saying it will happen, but my goodness.

[bbosbbos]

10 minutes in and Gardner-Webb on Pace for 88 points against UVA defense?

What on earth is going on?

Cause refs are doing their job better.

[richardjackson199]

UVA's defense isn't bad.

Gardner Webb is hitting Everything.

Amazing.

But very early.

This UVA team is a machine and if they can keep their composure and play their game, their system should annihilate Gardner Webb after this shooting cools off.

[whereinthehellami]

UVA looks so tight! GW killing the middle of the UVA defense.

[rolm]

ACC an almost no show so far, with only 1 win and a number 1 seed down by double digits, although it's only the first half. Hope UVA can pull it out. Last few years have not been good for the ACC in the opening weekend.

[sagegrouse]

ACC an almost no show so far, with only 1 win and a number 1 seed down by double digits, although it's only the first half. Hope UVA can pull it out. Last few years have not been good for the ACC in the opening weekend.

I dunno what Virginia is smoking, but Gardner-Webb is SMOKIN'!!!

[AGDukesky]

UVA's defense isn't bad.

Gardner Webb is hitting Everything.

Amazing.

But very early.

This UVA team is a machine and if they can keep their composure and play their game, their system should annihilate Gardner Webb after this shooting cools off.

Agreed generally but the baggage of last year could get in UVA players’ heads

[bbosbbos]

This UVA team is a machine and if they can keep their composure and play their game, their system should annihilate Gardner Webb after this shooting cools off.

I agree with you.

[Tjenkins]

What would be the repercussions of a #1 seed UVA losing to a #16 seed 2 years in a row?

Could Bennet stay on as coach? Would it break him? Would he quit coaching?

Not saying it will happen, but my goodness.

Speaking as a Virginia resident (for 36 of the last 41 years) I think he's done if they lose to a 16-seed twice in a row.

[DarkstarWahoo]

It’s a thing now. I hope Tony finds a nice landing spot somewhere.

[DukieInBrasil]

How is it possible for UVA to play such good defense during the year, and then totally forget how to play defense in the NCAAT?
ed.- well, it did improve some once they stopped showing so hard on the screen.

[accfanfrom1970]

It’s hard to watch UVa being down. Just hard.

[rolm]

UVA's defense isn't bad.

Gardner Webb is hitting Everything.

Amazing.

But very early.

This UVA team is a machine and if they can keep their composure and play their game, their system should annihilate Gardner Webb after this shooting cools off.

UVA's offense is tight but should be able to turn it around once they settle. What is surprising is their defense. G-W is making it look easy. That has to be concerning for Bennett

[richardjackson199]

It’s a thing now. I hope Tony finds a nice landing spot somewhere.

Pretty sure UCLA would gladly take him. He's one of the best coaches in the country. This is horrible, horrible luck. But UVA and Bennett will be fine. UVA wins this game.

[bbosbbos]

UVA has got the stop they need badly. It is time to come back.

[accfanfrom1970]

[QUOTE=accfanfrom1970;1144777]It’s hard to watch UVa being down. Just hard. They have to come back. Or else?

[Reddevil]

How is it possible for UVA to play such good defense during the year, and then totally forget how to play defense in the NCAAT?

Or maybe the rest of the ACC needs to take a look at what the others are doing. If UMBC can do it and G-Webb can do it, what is it that exposes the packline?

[richardjackson199]

UVA showing heart and showing how much they want this. They got this.

[Dukehk]

Still plenty of time left, but you have to wonder about the psyche of the players.

[wavedukefan70s]

[QUOTE=accfanfrom1970;1144777]It’s hard to watch UVa being down. Just hard. They have to come back. Or else?

Gardner web crowd cheering thier hearts out.i want Virginia to win .but the misery on the guy in front of me is absolutely hilarious.

[Utley]

I live in Northern Va and we just got a crazy thunder hail storm. I think UVA’s play here is playing havoc with the weather

[follyblue]

Crowd here for GW is very very loud. But I think Virginia has this. Their defense will come alive.

[Bob Green]

I live in Northern Va and we just got a crazy thunder hail storm. I think UVA’s play here is playing havoc with the weather

Dark storm clouds are rolling across the sky in Southeastern Virginia.

[BandAlum83]

Crowd here for GW is very very loud. But I think Virginia has this. Their defense will come alive.

They did give up only 14 points last 10 versus 22 first 10.

Look for them to give up 25 or less the second half.

[Dukehk]

colgate with the lead against the vols..

Could both 1 and 2 seed go down on the same day?

That would anger me because it means unx almost get a free pass to the title game..

[proelitedota]

UVA looks to have stabilized.

[richardjackson199]

Perfect start from UVA to 2nd Half. They started with all layups inside against smaller team. That's how you beat a 16 - don't settle. Locked down on D and wanting it more. Now with the lead they're looser from outside.

Great coaching from Bennett in a tough situation to start game with worst nightmare. Great halftime adjustments.

I do NOT want the cheats to have a free pass to the championship game.

[rsvman]

When RJ does what Hunter did to get Virginia the lead he gets called for an offensive foul. Jus' sayin.'

[whereinthehellami]

It looks like a collective weight has now been taken off of UVA's shoulders.

Maybe Tony can stay in Cville?

[BandAlum83]

I'll say. GW has scored only 3 points in 8 1/2 minutes this half.

I may have been to generous thinking they might give up as many as 25 this half.

Would be pretty amazing to see UVA cover the 22 point spread when all is said and done. It could happen.

[uh_no]

I'll say. GW has scored only 3 points in 8 1/2 minutes this half.

I may have been to generous thinking they might give up as many as 25 this half.

Would be pretty amazing to see UVA cover the 22 point spread when all is said and done. It could happen.

people overreacted a bit because of last year. UVA missed some shots and got down, then clamped down on defense and pulled away. they do this more often than not (at least playing better as the game goes on). the fact that the foul situation was in their favor was aiding as well.

[Tjenkins]

I saw Gardiner-Webb in person last November at VCU, G-W was easily beaten, I was surprised when they made the big dance. This isn't over yet, but the team I saw has shown up for the 2nd half.

[Steven43]

people overreacted a bit because of last year. UVA missed some shots and got down, then clamped down on defense and pulled away. they do this more often than not (at least playing better as the game goes on). the fact that the foul situation was in their favor was aiding as well.
I LOVE ❤️ the way UVA works the ball around searching for a matchup advantage, and everybody dribbles quite well without overdribbling or trying to show off. And their passing is so precise and efficient. It is a thing of beauty.

[Bob Green]

Congratulations to UVa on the win.

[OldPhiKap]

I can hear the deep sighs of relief in Charlottesville all the way down here in Georgia.

[DarkstarWahoo]

Never in doubt.

[-jk]

Never in doubt.

Yeah, go with that! :)

(Been there...)

-jk

[proelitedota]

Never in doubt.

Interested in knowing your emotion and state of mind at during each portions of the game.

1. When UVA turned it over 5 times.
2. When GW was up 14.
3. When UVA cut it to 6.
4. When UVA got back the lead.
5. When UVA had 100% safe lead.

[Steven43]

I do NOT want the cheats to have a free pass to the championship game.
Don’t worry. UNC is going down before the Final Four. Bank on it.

[richardjackson199]

Don’t worry. UNC is going down before the Final Four. Bank on it.

Hope so. Roy Williams is 28-0 in first round games. Let's make it 28-1.

Go Iona! :cool:

[Wahoo2000]

I saw a few posts upthread saying we (UVa) were playing good defense in the first half but GW was hitting everything. With all due respect, this could not be much further from the truth. GW did shoot well, but I haven't seen us miss rotations, fail to help, be slow to rotate, get "blown-by" like that all year. We had a serious case of deadfoot/frozen feet that I'd attribute almost entirely to nerves/being scared.

Same thing on offense - such uncharacteristic turnovers, we surrendered a VERY high percentage of offensive rebounds and failed to get them ourselves, despite having a TREMENDOUS height advantage and being a solid/good rebounding team all year.

It was 100% mental/tightness/nerves. It's obviously an issue for this team, as pretty much the exact same thing happened in the 2nd half vs UMBC last year. Hopefully, weathering the storm here and coming away with the win will give them the confidence to shake/play through the nerves a little better moving forward. We'll see.

I do believe if we play well (not our best, just "well"), there's only one team in the region (Tennesse) who can take us out, not matter how well that team plays. If our guys can get their nerves under control, we have a fantastic chance to get to a Final Four. If not, another early exit is prob on the menu. I'll say this though - to me, this proves it's not our "style" holding us back. In our biggest tournament disappointments (Cuse/UMBC/ALMOST today), it was nerves/choking that killed us. Not slow pace, not "refs finally calling fouls" on us, etc. STYLE is not the issue.

It's purely mental at this point.

[W&LHoo]

1. When UVA turned it over 5 times.

Frustrated but not concerned.

2. When GW was up 14.

Despair and confusion.

3. When UVA cut it to 6.

Confident we'd win.

4. When UVA got back the lead.

Still confident we'd win.

5. When UVA had 100% safe lead.

Thrilled the kids got that monkey off of their backs. And then beat it to death.

[Wahoo2000]

Interested in knowing your emotion and state of mind at during each portions of the game.

1. When UVA turned it over 5 times.
2. When GW was up 14.
3. When UVA cut it to 6.
4. When UVA got back the lead.
5. When UVA had 100% safe lead.

Not asked of me, but here are my answers:

1. We're playing extremely scared/nervous and it's paralyzing us both mentally and physically.
2. #1 continued
3. We're settling down a bit, but what will happen vis-a-vis those nerves over the course of halftime and potentially if GW hits a tough shot or two early in the 2nd?
4. We need to expand this lead quickly, don't let up. If they rally and keep it close or re-take the lead, those nerves could come right back and kill us
5. EXTREMELY HAPPY that we don't have to deal with the thought of what a second straight upset like that would mean, then started thinking about whether the rally will help us overcome these issues with the mental issues/nerves. Hopefully so.

[richardjackson199]

1. When UVA turned it over 5 times.

Frustrated but not concerned.

2. When GW was up 14.

Despair and confusion.

3. When UVA cut it to 6.

Confident we'd win.

4. When UVA got back the lead.

Still confident we'd win.

5. When UVA had 100% safe lead.

Thrilled the kids got that monkey off of their backs. And then beat it to death.

Killers Kill ... monkees? ;)

[-jk]

Killers Kill ... monkees? ;)

I'm a believer!

-jk

[Phredd3]

I'm a believer!

Oh, yeah, Let's Dance On!

[NSDukeFan]

I'm a believer!

-jk

Not a trace
Of doubt in Hoos’ fans minds?

[ElliottHoo]

That was just freaking horrific.

[OldPhiKap]

That was just freaking horrific.

Survive, advance. Got the monkey off your back.

I think folks have a better shot beating UVA in the first of a two-game tourney weekend than the second. Big difference between five days to prep, and one plus some stuff. Like playing an option team in football.

[Wahoo2000]

Oregon is really starting to come together. Watching them today a looking at their results over the past couple of weeks, it's hard to fathom how this team was so terrible/average through the first 20 games or so of the year.

They look incredibly long and athletic, and shot it well today in the second half.

[Acymetric]

Oregon is really starting to come together. Watching them today a looking at their results over the past couple of weeks, it's hard to fathom how this team was so terrible/average through the first 20 games or so of the year.

They look incredibly long and athletic, and shot it well today in the second half.

I was sorely tempted to pick them over UVA in the Sweet 16 after watching them in the PAC tournament.

[Wahoo2000]

I was sorely tempted to pick them over UVA in the Sweet 16 after watching them in the PAC tournament.

I mean, it's not crazy to imagine them beating anybody right now. They start 4 6'9 guys who can all move/jump/run with Pritchard at 6'2 who is an excellent PG.

They're an especially bad matchup for UVA in that their biggest weaknesses are that they foul a lot (but UVA doesn't really draw a lot of fouls), and that they don't get to the line much (but UVA doesn't put teams on the line anyway). Given that size though, they're surprisingly mediocre (from tournament team standards) on the glass, though much of that may be because they gamble for a lot of steals and blocks - usually with a high success rate.

I think if UVA takes care of the ball and shoots reasonably well, and Oregon doesn't have an out-of-body experience, UVA wins. But it's far from a given.

[DarkstarWahoo]

Interested in knowing your emotion and state of mind at during each portions of the game.

1. When UVA turned it over 5 times.
2. When GW was up 14.
3. When UVA cut it to 6.
4. When UVA got back the lead.
5. When UVA had 100% safe lead.

1. Blood pressure rising, angry on the group text: “They’re playing stupid. This is last year all over again.”
2. Was out in the backyard pushing the baby in the swing and mostly enjoying it.
3. See 2.
4. Older sons arrived home from school right before start of second half, necessitating an end to sulking. Cheering and high-fives that were a little too intense.
5. Intense relief and desire to see Badocchi, Stattmann, et al and save the starters’ legs.

[brevity]

Upset Of The Day: Gardner-Webb Toppled By Team No One Believed In (https://deadspin.com/upset-of-the-day-gardner-webb-toppled-by-team-no-one-b-1833503572)


The Virginia Cavaliers proved today that truly, anything is possible during March Madness, as head coach Tony Bennett’s crew upset powerhouse Gardner-Webb for a 71-56 victory in the first round.

[akg4y]

Interested in knowing your emotion and state of mind at during each portions of the game.

1. When UVA turned it over 5 times.
2. When GW was up 14.
3. When UVA cut it to 6.
4. When UVA got back the lead.
5. When UVA had 100% safe lead.


1. Disbelief, PTSD, frustration
2. Anger that Bennett wasnt playing Huff more and that Kihei had played every minute thusfar. Longing for the lineup of Dre, Ty, Kyle, Mamadi/Huff, and Key in there to abuse them with our size.
3. Anxious relief. Heart rate stabilized, felt we had gotten our act together but still worried that GW could come out and hit a few threes and knock us on our back like UMBC.
4. Hope... just wanted us to step on their throat and not let them have any thoughts of a last second victory.
5. F'in finally, this must have been what Gonzaga felt like 4 minutes into their game, the bastards.

[DarkstarWahoo]

I’m just happy to be able to enjoy more of the tournament this year.

I think part of the struggle yesterday was just the mental pressure, which comes from the coaches. I hope to see them playing looser tomorrow.

[OldPhiKap]

I’m just happy to be able to enjoy more of the tournament this year.

I think part of the struggle yesterday was just the mental pressure, which comes from the coaches. I hope to see them playing looser tomorrow.

Hot as a pistol, but cool inside?

[DarkstarWahoo]

Hot as a pistol, but cool inside?

If the Oklahoma game starts the same way Gardner-Webb did, I’ll be drinking to the dregs of the whiskey jar.

[OldPhiKap]

If the Oklahoma game starts the same way Gardner-Webb did, I’ll be drinking to the dregs of the whiskey jar.

Don’t you let that deal go down.

[Indoor66]

If the Oklahoma game starts the same way Gardner-Webb did, I’ll be drinking to the dregs of the whiskey jar.

Might have to dig into the White?

[robed deity]

If the Oklahoma game starts the same way Gardner-Webb did, I’ll be drinking to the dregs of the whiskey jar.

Not to worry, Virginia will come out firing on all cylinders. Yesterday, they were predictably tight.

[gocanes0506]

Nova is getting embarrassed right now

[richardjackson199]

Nova is getting embarrassed right now

Yep. Jay Wright is a good coach. But this is just humiliating.

Purdue is a decent upset pick to come out of this region. Carsen Edwards and Purdue in general are really good.

[Rich]

Yep. Jay Wright is a good coach. But this is just humiliating.

Purdue is a decent upset pick to come out of this region. Carsen Edwards and Purdue in general are really good.

Matt Painter doesn’t get much press, at least here in the northeast, but I think he’s a very good coach as well.

[DarkstarWahoo]

The issue with Edwards is that he’s prone to 0-8 or 1-11 games, and when he does, they’re extremely vulnerable. Of course, he only needs to stay hot for four more games to maybe raise a banner, and only two more to potentially make me very unhappy.

[whereinthehellami]

Purdue is one of those Big10 teams that are just so boring and hard for me to watch.

[UrinalCake]

Nova getting steamrolled reminds me of how difficult it is to have sustained success in the tournament year after year. They won two titles in three years and were considered the gold standard of college basketball, but prior to that Nova had a long string of #1 and #2 seeded teams that failed to advance past the S16. Even the 2017 season that was sandwiched by the titles was upset.

UConn has an impressive rarest h of titles as well, but has since fallen into oblivion. Florida has those back to back titles but has done nothing since. The fact that K has us contending year in year out, with few exception, for 40+ years is just amazing.

[dukelifer]

Nova getting steamrolled reminds me of how difficult it is to have sustained success in the tournament year after year. They won two titles in three years and were considered the gold standard of college basketball, but prior to that Nova had a long string of #1 and #2 seeded teams that failed to advance past the S16. Even the 2017 season that was sandwiched by the titles was upset.

UConn has an impressive rarest h of titles as well, but has since fallen into oblivion. Florida has those back to back titles but has done nothing since. The fact that K has us contending year in year out, with few exception, for 40+ years is just amazing.
I would say that winning 26 games is not really falling off. They are a legit program and a second round loss is not necessariy a sign of decline. A Duke fan should know that well.

[ns7]

Nova getting steamrolled reminds me of how difficult it is to have sustained success in the tournament year after year. They won two titles in three years and were considered the gold standard of college basketball, but prior to that Nova had a long string of #1 and #2 seeded teams that failed to advance past the S16. Even the 2017 season that was sandwiched by the titles was upset.

UConn has an impressive rarest h of titles as well, but has since fallen into oblivion. Florida has those back to back titles but has done nothing since. The fact that K has us contending year in year out, with few exception, for 40+ years is just amazing.

Florida has a FF and EE since winning back to back titles. They are a strong program though not an elite one.

[Rich]

Nova getting steamrolled reminds me of how difficult it is to have sustained success in the tournament year after year. They won two titles in three years and were considered the gold standard of college basketball, but prior to that Nova had a long string of #1 and #2 seeded teams that failed to advance past the S16. Even the 2017 season that was sandwiched by the titles was upset.

UConn has an impressive rarest h of titles as well, but has since fallen into oblivion. Florida has those back to back titles but has done nothing since. The fact that K has us contending year in year out, with few exception, for 40+ years is just amazing.


I would say that winning 26 games is not really falling off. They are a legit program and a second round loss is not necessariy a sign of decline. A Duke fan should know that well.

They were "afflicted" with some early entry this year and unprepared. Happens to the best of us. No doubt they'll be back.

[AGDukesky]

Iowa looks like it is moving in slow motion compared to Tenn

[Stray Gator]

Iowa looks like it is moving in slow motion compared to Tenn

Like a barbershop quintet against the playground ballers?

[AGDukesky]

Like a barbershop quintet against the playground ballers?

Yes but far less entertaining

[AZLA]

Can I change my vote to Tennessee? Wow they are looking incredible against Iowa.

[gocanes0506]

(Sarcasm) man this Tennessee fan I hear more than the announcers is enjoyable.

[AGDukesky]

Iowa with some life to start the 2nd half...

[AGDukesky]

Wow it’s like the teams exchanged uniforms

[gocanes0506]

(Sarcasm) man this Tennessee fan I hear more than the announcers is enjoyable.

Well the guy either stopped chirping or they cut the mic that was catching him.

[AZLA]

Can I change my vote to Tennessee? Wow they are looking incredible against Iowa.

Can I change that back :cool:?

[richardjackson199]

What a game!

About time. :)

[Acymetric]

Brutal missed call gives Iowa 3 free throws.

[Papa John]

What a game!

About time. :)

Not sure about that... I didn't see the first half, but from what I've watched Tennessee looks slow, tentative and sloppy... And the officiating has been absolutely awful in this game.

[richardjackson199]

Not sure about that... I didn't see the first half, but from what I've watched Tennessee looks slow, tentative and sloppy... And the officiating has been absolutely awful in this game.

25 point comeback.

[AGDukesky]

Brutal missed call gives Iowa 3 free throws.

That was terrible. He clearly got the ball.

[Papa John]

25 point comeback.

The comeback has been fueled by awful basketball by Tennessee and awful officiating... How is that a good game?

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Was busy this morning, halfway paying attention to scores. Was surprised Iowa wasn't giving more pressure. Just tuned back in. Wow!

[gocanes0506]

That was terrible. He clearly got the ball.

This is why all sports need a “sky ref” to override these bad calls almost instantaneously.

[Acymetric]

Is this the first OT game of the tournament or did I miss one?

[gocanes0506]

What a stupid play call by Tennessee. Take the ball to the hoop. Basic basketball.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

What a stupid play call by Tennessee. Take the ball to the hoop. Basic basketball.

Last two playsby UT were poorly times 3s.

[Wander]

The blocked 3 was a totally awful foul call, but it was immediately preceded by a bad call against Iowa that gave Tennessee two free throws... so really only 1 net point to Iowa on the awful reffing in that sequence.

[gocanes0506]

Last two playsby UT were poorly times 3s.

I’d expect the previous 3 attempt was a player decision. The last one was a drawn up play.

I have fallen for the Barnes allure too many times. I put too much into their regular season when picking the brackets. He isn’t a post season coach and that why Texas cut him.

[gocanes0506]

I swear these teams have traded jerseys each time a period has ended.
1st half- Iowa plays terrible
2nd half- Tennessee plays like Iowa
OT- Iowa plays like Tennessee in the 2nd half

[richardjackson199]

Chalk prevails again.

But good game.

YMMV ;)

[devildeac]

UT almost loovil'd it in regulation.

[Wander]

I have fallen for the Barnes allure too many times. I put too much into their regular season when picking the brackets. He isn’t a post season coach and that why Texas cut him.

Barnes' decision to barely play Schofield in the 2nd half + overtime because he has 4 fouls is the dumbest coaching decision I've seen in a long time. Barnes' awful coaching got bailed out by his players.

[devildeac]

Barnes' decision to barely play Schofield in the 2nd half + overtime because he has 4 fouls is the dumbest coaching decision I've seen in a long time. Barnes' awful coaching got bailed out by his players.

Just like Clemson: clap, clap, clap/clap/clap.

Amirite, Ozzie? ;)

[WHOneedsSOX]

Barnes' decision to barely play Schofield in the 2nd half + overtime because he has 4 fouls is the dumbest coaching decision I've seen in a long time. Barnes' awful coaching got bailed out by his players.

I agree. And for some reason Chris Webber thought it was the right move. I understand the guy has 4 fouls but the guy sat the final 7-8 minutes of the game. Makes no sense.

[wsb3]

Barnes' decision to barely play Schofield in the 2nd half + overtime because he has 4 fouls is the dumbest coaching decision I've seen in a long time. Barnes' awful coaching got bailed out by his players.

Maybe he saves fouls like Roy saves timeouts.

[Bigwayne17]

Twitter is saying that Schofield told Barnes to leave Alexander in the game...said he knew he was better defensively???

Odd if you ask me with Schofield being one of their best players.

[Papa John]

Barnes' decision to barely play Schofield in the 2nd half + overtime because he has 4 fouls is the dumbest coaching decision I've seen in a long time. Barnes' awful coaching got bailed out by his players.

Tennessee feels very much like a bipolar team, which doesn't feel like a recipe for a championship. I have a hard time envisioning the second half team I saw today beating UVa...

[Tripping William]

Tennessee feels very much like a bipolar team, which doesn't feel like a recipe for a championship. I have a hard time envisioning the second half team I saw today beating UVa...

The first-half UVa who was down 6 at halftime to Gardner Webb?

[-jk]

Second weekend is often so different from the first...

-jk

[duketaylor]

Solid Sunday, now Sweet Sixteen peppered with ACC teams!!

The Elite teams of the conference survive and advance!!

[subzero02]

go anteaters!!! weak charge call helped to break their momentum but I like the way they play defense.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Ducks are pulling away. Shame. Would love to see Anteaters go another round!

[subzero02]

15 of the sweet 16 correct if the score holds in my best bracket. The anteaters are cooked and unfortunately I picked them to win.

[dukelifer]

Tennessee feels very much like a bipolar team, which doesn't feel like a recipe for a championship. I have a hard time envisioning the second half team I saw today beating UVa...

Everyone starts over next week. Tenn is good enough to win.

[jipops]

I thought UVA was impressive yesterday. Of the 1 seeds most likely to get to the FF I think it’s between them and the cheats (who appear to be a near lock with the PJ injury and Little now playing up to expectations). The hoos just killed anything that went into the paint. They’ll need some better shooting from Guy obviously but it was clear that Okla was keying on him.

[HereBeforeCoachK]

Ducks are pulling away. Shame. Would love to see Anteaters go another round!

The Ducks are a very hot and healthy team now...lots of athleticism...over their injuries...this is not your average 12th seed. They have the one player who is in Zion's league with leaping ability.

[CDu]

The Ducks are a very hot and healthy team now...lots of athleticism...over their injuries...this is not your average 12th seed. They have the one player who is in Zion's league with leaping ability.

Well, not totally over their injuries. Their best player (Bol Bol) is out for the year still.

[UrinalCake]

Man, Purdue is looking fantastic. They have really flown under the radar this season, I knew Carsen Edwards but that’s about it. Their center looks like the Russian from Rocky 4.

[dukelifer]

Man, Purdue is looking fantastic. They have really flown under the radar this season, I knew Carsen Edwards but that’s about it. Their center looks like the Russian from Rocky 4.
Something happened- down by 2 now

[Bluedog]

Somehow these teams are shooting 47 and 61% from three but only 25 and 50% from the FT line! What?!? And that's on 12 and 22 attempts so not like a small sample on the FTs.

[CDu]

This game is unbelievable. Haymaker after haymaker.

[AGDukesky]

This ending is amazing- fantastic offense the last 4-5 minutes

[robed deity]

Apparently, Klein is a shooter.

[moonpie23]

both teams be ballin.....toe to toe...

[dukelifer]

This game is unbelievable. Haymaker after haymaker.

Amazing effort on both sides

[AGDukesky]

Boxing out has not been so great

[Bigwayne17]

#14=en fuego!

[dukelifer]

Apparently, Klein is a shooter.

Hitting them on contested step backs.

[moonpie23]

plenty of time for a 2....

[AGDukesky]

Cline for the win?

[JetpackJesus]

It almost looked like TN drew up that putback dunk.

[Bluedog]

Should probably foul intentionally given the FT shooting vs 3 point shooting, haha.

[JetpackJesus]

What an amazing defensive play!

[Bluedog]

This gives Purdue a free TO....that's why replay kinda sucks.

[dukelifer]

Holy cow

[moonpie23]

ruh roh....

[JetpackJesus]

What an amazing defensive play!

That was not.

[robed deity]

This gives Purdue a free TO...that's why replay kinda sucks.

Exactly.

[Acymetric]

Bad call to try for the TO there by Barnes (no surprise).

[AGDukesky]

That was anticlimactic. Hope the OT is as good as the last 5 minutes of regulation...

[Acymetric]

That was anticlimactic. Hope the OT is as good as the last 5 minutes of regulation...

I only watched the last 6 minutes (of game time) but I'm comfortable saying this might be the most exciting game of the tournament so far.

[Bluedog]

So was that a clear foul on the three?? I couldn't really tell on my screen. If it was Duke, would be analyzed a lot. Hoping for an entertaining OT.

[rsvman]

Does anybody think that Edwards was really fouled on the three?

[Acymetric]

So was that a clear foul on the three?? I couldn't really tell on my screen. If it was Duke, would be analyzed a lot. Hoping for an entertaining OT.

Definitely a foul I thought, although the Purdue player may have pushed off to get separation before he got the ball.

[JetpackJesus]

Does anybody think that Edwards was really fouled on the three?

I want to see it again. It looked like the Tennessee player might have gotten him with the body. It definitely wasn't with the arms. The replay angle or two they showed weren't all that helpful.

[JNort]

Bad call to try for the TO there by Barnes (no surprise).

Disagree, I would almost always go for that as a coach until college gets a proper placement from timeouts like the NBA. It worked brilliantly too, refs just badly and I mean badly messed up the clock.

[Phredd3]

I want to see it again. It looked like the Tennessee player might have gotten him with the body. It definitely wasn't with the arms. The replay angle or two they showed weren't all that helpful.

I thought it was body contact after the release. 2-of-3 means OT. Gotta hit the freebies.

[DarkstarWahoo]

This is the best game I’ve seen all year.

[Bluedog]

Disagree, I would almost always go for that as a coach until college gets a proper placement from timeouts like the NBA. It worked brilliantly too, refs just badly and I mean badly messed up the clock.

I prefer the college rule (which is really no special rule). The NBA rule is meant to lead to more buzzer beaters but I don't understand why the rule should change in the last minute. Makes no sense.

[JetpackJesus]

I prefer the college rule (which is really no special rule). The NBA rule is meant to lead to more buzzer beaters but I don't understand why the rule should change in the last minute. Makes no sense.

Yeah. I'd really like to know how no time goes back on the clock there. The clock started early and stopped late.

[Acymetric]

Disagree, I would almost always go for that as a coach until college gets a proper placement from timeouts like the NBA. It worked brilliantly too, refs just badly and I mean badly messed up the clock.

I don't like that rule, personally. I'd need to see it again to see how much time they should have had back but the exchange between on that second pass took too long which is a known risk there. Better off just pushing it up the court and taking a shot.

[JetpackJesus]

I don't like that rule, personally. I'd need to see it again to see how much time they should have had back but the exchange between on that second pass took too long which is a known risk there. Better off just pushing it up the court and taking a shot.

The Tennessee player called for a timeout at 0.6, and that doesn't account for the clock starting before the first Tennessee player touched the ball.

[gocanes0506]

Tennessee is getting a lot of weak foul calls. That three “foul” that led to the tying free throws, garbage.

[rsvman]

Tennessee is getting a lot of weak foul calls. That three “foul” that led to the tying free throws, garbage.

Agree. Weak call.

[Furniture]

I am supporting Perdue. Am I wrong?

[Phredd3]

Yeah. I'd really like to know how no time goes back on the clock there. The clock started early and stopped late.

Very much disagree. I thought the clock started exactly at the moment of the touch, and stopped exactly when the ref raised a hand. Lots of clock operators anticipate the timeout, but that's not what is supposed to happen. At most it was an extra tenth, and that's not enough to change the game situation.

[dukelifer]

Tennessee is getting a lot of weak foul calls. That three “foul” that led to the tying free throws, garbage.
Tenn not gonna get it done

[rsvman]

The Tennessee player called for a timeout at 0.6, and that doesn't account for the clock starting before the first Tennessee player touched the ball.

Refs said the clock doesn't stop until they recognize the time out. So when the time it was actually called us irrelevant. Boggles the mind.

[rsvman]

I am supporting Perdue. Am I wrong?

Of course not. You can support whomever you want to support.

[CoachJ10]

I would never forgive those refs for that atrocious call at the end of regulation. That was beyond bad (including the fact it was over 5 seconds on the inbounds).

Looking forward to nonstop coverage of Purdue getting all the calls.

[Acymetric]

Refs said the clock doesn't stop until they recognize the time out. So when the time it was actually called us irrelevant. Boggles the mind.

I mean...that is the rule. It's always been the rule. Did anyone not know that? That is why it was such a dumb decision by Barnes.

[rsvman]

I would never forgive those refs for that atrocious call at the end of regulation. That was beyond bad (including the fact it was over 5 seconds on the inbounds).

Looking forward to nonstop coverage of Purdue getting all the calls.

LOL at your last sentence.

[JetpackJesus]

Very much disagree. I thought the clock started exactly at the moment of the touch, and stopped exactly when the ref raised a hand. Lots of clock operators anticipate the timeout, but that's not what is supposed to happen. At most it was an extra tenth, and that's not enough to change the game situation.

I'll have to watch again on a screen bigger than my phone. It looked like the clock started running when the ball was in the air when they showed the baseline replay angle, but I could be wrong.

Also, I know the ref explained it was at 0.1 when the TO was acknowledged, but the replay clearly shows the TO was called at 0.6. If they can't fix an obvious error on replay, why have it?

EDIT: I guess this is more a complaint about replay in general.

[-jk]

This is the best game I’ve seen all year.

Even if y’all will be up really late...

-jk

[CDu]

I mean...that is the rule. It's always been the rule. Did anyone not know that? That is why it was such a dumb decision by Barnes.

Agreed. You put yourself in the hands of the refs’ reaction time.

[Acymetric]

I switched to the game pulling for Tennessee, but watching Klein drilling those shots I changed sides (I also remembered that I'm not a fan of Rick Barnes and think he's massively overrated).

[CDu]

I'll have to watch again on a screen bigger than my phone. It looked like the clock started running when the ball was in the air when they showed the baseline replay angle, but I could be wrong.

Also, I know the ref explained it was at 0.1 when the TO was acknowledged, but the replay clearly shows the TO was called at 0.6. If they can't fix an obvious error on replay, why have it?

Timeouts aren’t based on when you ask. They are based on when the ref grants them. It is irrelevant when the player signals for it.

[Chard]

Great game. Don't see that type of foul call at the end of a tournament game very often.

[moonpie23]

bye bye rocky top....

[DarkstarWahoo]

Even if y’all will be up really late...

-jk

The lazy/astute Wahoo neglects to take vacation so he has to burn it at the end of the fiscal year and thus can take a morning nap tomorrow after getting the kids on the bus.

[Dukehk]

The vols could have won this game in a blowout if they had actually hit their free throws! Shooting 50%...

Hopefully our guys take that as a warning and really focus on making their freebies.

[DU82]

I am supporting Perdue. Am I wrong?

Well, Gov. Perdue is not likely to run again after she lost in 2012.

Purdue, on the other hand, can leave my screen, and take Joe Barry Carroll with them (too soon?)

[JetpackJesus]

Timeouts aren’t based on when you ask. They are based on when the ref grants them. It is irrelevant when the player signals for it.

I understand the rule. I added an edit to my post because I'm really complaining about replay rules rather than the actual rule. If they can't use replay to correct it, then why have it? There's absolutely no reason they can't say the clock should've stopped when the TO was actually signalled, and if there's no evidence of when the TO was signalled on the replay, then the refs go with when the ref signalled the TO.

[Bigwayne17]

I would never forgive those refs for that atrocious call at the end of regulation. That was beyond bad (including the fact it was over 5 seconds on the inbounds).

Looking forward to nonstop coverage of Purdue getting all the calls.

You cannot foul a three point shooter in that situation at the end of regulation. Contest the shot, but you can’t give the ref the opportunity to call that foul. The guy is falling away in the deep corner....it’s a very difficult shot. To me, taking away the poor FT shooting of both teams, that was the game.

[Duke79UNLV77]

UT got screwed 3 times in the last 3 seconds of regulation. I thought the foul call was a gift. Then, the clock started too early. I don’t know why they couldn’t at least fix that on review. Then, the ref took forever to acknowledge the timeout. Even if not reviewable, it was still a blown call on the floor. They should have had almost a full second.

[Acymetric]

You cannot foul a three point shooter in that situation at the end of regulation. Contest the shot, but you can’t give the ref the opportunity to call that foul. The guy is falling away in the deep corner...it’s a very difficult shot. To me, taking away the poor FT shooting of both teams, that was the game.

I made the same comment in another thread (the perfect bracket thread). Can't give the refs any reason to call something there.

[Acymetric]

Didn't know there were so many closet UT fans here! Officiating was not that bad, and UT didn't get screwed... everybody calm down.

[gocanes0506]

You cannot foul a three point shooter in that situation at the end of regulation. Contest the shot, but you can’t give the ref the opportunity to call that foul. The guy is falling away in the deep corner...it’s a very difficult shot. To me, taking away the poor FT shooting of both teams, that was the game.

You also cant make that call on such a non shot altering “foul.”

[Bluedog]

I understand the rule. I added an edit to my post because I'm really complaining about replay rules rather than the actual rule. If they can't use replay to correct it, then why have it? There's absolutely no reason they can't say the clock should've stopped when the TO was actually signalled, and if there's no evidence of when the TO was signalled on the replay, then the refs go with when the ref signalled the TO.

I didn't think somebody could convince me on this, but I actually kinda agree with you. If you're going to take so much time to review, why not take the ref reaction time out of the equation and give the TO when it's called. They are so precise about timing for everything else. When the ball goes out of bounds, they don't say the clock stops when the ref acknowledges it or when they stop it. They look at the replay and change the clock to when it actually went out of bounds.

[CDu]

I understand the rule. I added an edit to my post because I'm really complaining about replay rules rather than the actual rule. If they can't use replay to correct it, then why have it? There's absolutely no reason they can't say the clock should've stopped when the TO was actually signalled, and if there's no evidence of when the TO was signalled on the replay, then the refs go with when the ref signalled the TO.

Why should replay be used to change the rules just because it is at the end of the game though? Timeouts throughout the game aren’t scrutinized for accuracy to the tenth of a second from when they are called. If you want to argue that it should be based on when the signal is made or an audible request is made, fine. But changing the rule at the end of the game seems wrong too.