MBB: Duke 70, ... Cheating Bastards 79 Post-Game Thread

[JBDuke]

Put your post-game thoughts here. No venting or bashing. Sure would be nice to play these guys at full strength and without an injury before the first timeout...

[Wander]

The calls against RJ collectively were the worst officiating performance in the history of college basketball.

We win otherwise, despite missing our NPOY and starting center on the road. The UNC series this year was just a huge useless whatever.

[weezie]

Well...

Not going to bash our players. They played with everything they had. Please don't rag on them. Let's see any other team handle all these bad injuries.

[BigZ]

What’s worse refs or ESPN ?

[kaufmjo]

Kenny Williams was really amazing on defense. Will be an investigation if he isn’t defensive player of the game

[ndkjr70]

What’s worse refs or ESPN ?

Yes.

[gocanes0506]

UNC didn’t play a complete game. This game was winnable without Z. We played less complete. Cant wait to run them out of the building with Z on the floor

[scottdude8]

This game was 5-on-7 (UNC had the crowd and the refs on their side). Duke was without it’s two best rebounders and paint players. Without Zion UNC poses a lot of matchup problems for this team.

And yet, we had chances to make this a game. A lot of them. One whistle or bounce on a three goes our way in the last 4 and it’s a game. This team doesn’t quit.

If Zion comes back and is 100% there’s the potential no one remembers this in 20 years. The average fan doesn’t remember we won 2-of-3 against the Heels in 2017. They remember UNC won the Natty. Let’s go turn that around this year.

[ndkjr70]

I don’t have a ton of nice things to say. So I’ll edit out all of my thoughts on the game that include rants and curse words. Here are my thoughts:

1. The

[simplyluvin]

Ran out of gas. Being undermanned really kills this team as we are normally a second half team. Cam played like garbage the second half but I attribute that to fatigue. We overall played young in the second half. Credit to them as they turned it on and White didn’t miss.

Just not enough firepower with Zion out. We’ll beat them on Friday!

[Les Grossman]

1. sneaker blow out
2. shooting
3. no bench, whatsoever

[FerryFor50]

Duke reacted way better to adversity this game. Fought the whole way. Defense wasn’t awful. Just couldn’t overcome their (over the back) rebounding, their (flops) charges drawn, nor their hot outside shooting. Just a combination of bad luck and lack of execution on some open shots down the stretch. Winnable game. Hopefully Zion comes back and Bolden’s injury isn’t season ending.

[fuse]

I <insert more strongly worded euphemism for dislike> Carolina.

I hope the team is able to regain the early season magic for the NCAAs.

Showed lots of heart in not giving up.
Need to not take so many 3s.

[kAzE]

Despite the loss, I actually was pretty happy with the performance overall. Javin and Jack really stepped up on D. Especially Javin, who played probably his best game of the season.

Hope Bolden is okay. He's been playing really well and it would really hurt to lose his contributions.

Looking forward to playing these guys again in the ACC semis with Zion and hopefully Marques on the court.

[barjwr]

Kenny Williams was really amazing on defense. Will be an investigation if he isn’t defensive player of the game

Thank goodness unc has experience being under investigation.

[Furniture]

This game was 5-on-7 (UNC had the crowd and the refs on their side). Duke was without it’s two best rebounders and paint players. Without Zion UNC poses a lot of matchup problems for this team.

And yet, we had chances to make this a game. A lot of them. One whistle or bounce on a three goes our way in the last 4 and it’s a game. This team doesn’t quit.

If Zion comes back and is 100% there’s the potential no one remembers this in 20 years. The average fan doesn’t remember we won 2-of-3 against the Heels in 2017. They remember UNC won the Natty. Let’s go turn that around this year.

what ever happens I am forgetting this one quick. Tough game for the good guys....

[mattman91]

Bolden vigil?

[SlapTheFloor]

I hate UNC. I hate their fans. I hate their cheating program. I hate their fake I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this. school.

[dukelion]

Bilas has become a caricature.....box and one set, wing span, obviously a foul there, etc.

Done with that dude.

[subzero02]

Kenny Williams was really amazing on defense. Will be an investigation if he isn’t defensive player of the game

not nearly as impactful as Teddy you troll...

[FerryFor50]

not nearly as impactful as Teddy you troll...

He was poking fun at Bilas saying that during the game.

[heyman25]

UNC didn’t play a complete game. This game was winnable without Z. We played less complete. Cant wait to run them out of the building with Z on the floor
Williamson is the X factor. He will relieve the pressure to score. Disagree,Duke will not run any team out of the building. No killer instincts. We started the season like Lions and would say as the season has rolled on exposed a lot of flaws. They should practice practice watch film and practice. Reddish was very good today. He needs to do this every game for the rest of the season.

Hope Marques returns next week.Wish O'Connell could give us more. I think since Joey Baker is available use him.

[DukeDevil]

The was our last loss of the year. Mark it down. I'll pie bet for it.

[Coballs]

6 nights from now, if we have Zion back and beat the CHeats then we're officially back in business. Until then, I'm starting to forget how fun this season used to be.

[downeastdad]

not nearly as impactful as Teddy you troll...

It appears that sarcasm is wasted on some on this board.

[Acymetric]

I really wish they would re-evaluate the way they are enforcing the charge rule. I know the forearm thing is a point of emphasis now but they've taken it way too far.

[weezie]

What’s worse refs or ESPN ?


Is this a trivia question? HHhmmmm

[Troublemaker]

The effort was there, especially after another freaking injury at the beginning of the game. We reacted better to injury this time and may have actually outrebounded them. And we were lights out on defense down the stretch.

But to pull off a small upset, we would've needed to shoot better than 25% from three. Or failing that, they had to shoot awful as well, which they didn't, hitting 39%. That stretch when UNC was red-hot from three in the middle of the 2nd half was the difference.

[ChillinDuke]

Bilas was truly terrible tonight. That segment where ESPN split screened and then full screened the Best of 94 Feet DURING THE GAME was frankly unfathomable.

We played OK. UNC shot very well but other than that sort of just did irritating UNC things. Bolden will be a huge loss. Can't imagine that wasn't a tear.

We have no bench and we really can't shoot. I don't know what happened with our inability to develop any semblance of a bench.

This season feels like it's slipping away. I need to see Zion dressed for me to get excited again.

- Chillin

[Saratoga2]

When Bolden went out, that put us at a further disadvantage. Even with getting beaten, there were some good moments, just not enough.

The good:

1. Tre played very good defensively and chipped in with some scoring

2. Cam kept us in the game with good defense and he was scoring efficiently in the first half. The end of the game, both RJ and Cam seemed to be in the helter skelter mode on offense so their contributions tailed off. Cam is still loose with the ball, but tonight some of his NBA appeal showed.

3. RJ got his points but was handicapped due to his charging fouls.

4. With Bolden gone, Javin worked very hard defensively and did help out offensively

5. Jack White also battled.

Not what we needed:

Nothing from Alex with I think 4 misses on open shots.

Overall:

With Zion and Bolden present, I think we would have won this game. Hope Marques injury is not severe. It looked like a knee sprain.

[Hancock 4 Duke]

Saw someone post this in the in-game thread

“There is absolutely no excuse to be down 5 points at the 2 minute mark to the #3 team in the country. I don't care if you are missing one of the most historically dominant players in NCAA history. I don't care if you are missing your starting center. I don't care if its senior night on the number 3 team's home court. I really, really want this FOR ME! WAAAAHHHHHH! WAAAAAHHHHH!


Let me clarify that I am being sarcastic. Given some of the other posts here its probably hard to tell.”

Really? Someone typed this out and deemed it reasonable enough to post? Jesus.


Also, that game could have gone completely different starting with about 5 minutes left in the game. We had the momentum towards the end that could’ve pushed us to a win, but we were too fatigued, and that certain “aura” that we’ve had in games like @ Louisville just wasn’t there. I can’t say I’m surprised at the outcome, but boy I didn’t expect it to be as even as it was until the end.

[Ian]

There is not much to be said about this game. Kudos to the guys for playing hard, but we aren't winning against a top 5 team on the road without our best player.

[Kjeffrey]

Despite the loss, I actually was pretty happy with the performance overall. Javin and Jack really stepped up on D. Especially Javin, who played probably his best game of the season.

Hope Bolden is okay. He's been playing really well and it would really hurt to lose his contributions.

Looking forward to playing these guys again in the ACC semis with Zion and hopefully Marques on the court.

I think Barrett tried to do too much. He put up some great numbers but forced it at times. I imagine he has felt a good deal of pressure with Zion out. I hope when Zion returns that Barrett can let the game come to him a little more.

[weezie]

...No killer instincts. We started the season like Lions and would say as the season has rolled on a lot of flaws.

Flaws= MAJOR injuries. Then, ok.

[Acymetric]

The effort was there, especially after another freaking injury at the beginning of the game. We reacted better to injury this time and may have actually outrebounded them. And we were lights out on defense down the stretch.

But to pull off a small upset, we would've needed to shoot better than 25% from three. Or failing that, they had to shoot awful as well.

I'm not sure the problem is our 25% shooting, that's just kind of who we are. We are taking way too many 3s though.

[ndkjr70]

Kenny Williams was really amazing on defense. Will be an investigation if he isn’t defensive player of the game

There is a 0% chance you aren’t a UNC fan. Between this post and multiple “Duke wouldn’t have won this game if Zion was playing stop whining” comments, I’m frantically looking for how to ignore a user.

[FerryFor50]

Bilas was truly terrible tonight. That segment where ESPN split screened and then full screened the Best of 94 Feet DURING THE GAME was frankly unfathomable.

We played OK. UNC shot very well but other than that sort of just did irritating UNC things. Bolden will be a huge loss. Can't imagine that wasn't a tear.

We have no bench and we really can't shoot. I don't know what happened with our inability to develop any semblance of a bench.

This season feels like it's slipping away. I need to see Zion dressed for me to get excited again.

- Chillin

I can’t imagine him walking on his own out of the tunnel with a tear. Likely a hyperextension or sprain.

[oakvillebluedevil]

If we’re fully healthy rest of way, this was our last loss.

[gofurman]

Please Bolden Zion

[Wahoo2000]

Tough loss for Duke. Without Zion, you prob need things to go near perfect to beat a top 5 team on the road. Another bad 3pt outing (even by this year's Duke team's standards), losing Bolden then hurt you a little even though I thought DeLaurier was really good today, and Barrett getting into foul trouble (deserved or not) made it almost impossible to win.

Won't surprise me one bit if Zion integrates back in and you guys run off 9 straight wins (though it'll disappoint me greatly since I'm hoping for a historic season for UVa, obviously).

[killerleft]

Kenny Williams was really amazing on defense. Will be an investigation if he isn’t defensive player of the game

That too? He's already been nominated for an Oscar.:)

[Acymetric]

Tough loss for Duke. Without Zion, you prob need things to go near perfect to beat a top 5 team on the road. Another bad 3pt outing (even by this year's Duke team's standards), losing Bolden then hurt you a little even though I thought DeLaurier was really good today, and Barrett getting into foul trouble (deserved or not) made it almost impossible to win.

Won't surprise me one bit if Zion integrates back in and you guys run off 9 straight wins (though it'll disappoint me greatly since I'm hoping for a historic season for UVa, obviously).

You guys made history last year! ;)

Sorry...couldn't help myself. Getting Zion back at full health definitely changes the outlook for the team.

[LSanders]

Undoubtedly, there will be a lot of drinkin' and a lot of pukin' in Chapel Hill. But, when the hangovers wear off, cheats are gonna remember we're on the same side of the bracket. Zion will be back (I presume) and RJ 'n company are going to be very, very fired up.

To paraphrase "Remember the Titans" ... "Run it up, K. Leave no doubt."

[dairedevil]

We needed one more guy to score double digits. RJ and Cam couldn’t do it all by themselves.
After the way the first game went, i didn’t have high expectations for this game. When Bolden got injured, I figured we were in for a repeat. When the lead went to 15, I thought it was over.

But these guys played hard, kept it close for a long time, and battled back with a 10-0 run when it looked like it was going to a blowout. I’m proud of this team, and hope they are back to full strength for the tournaments!

[duke79]

The effort was there, especially after another freaking injury at the beginning of the game. We reacted better to injury this time and may have actually outrebounded them. And we were lights out on defense down the stretch.

But to pull off a small upset, we would've needed to shoot better than 25% from three. Or failing that, they had to shoot awful as well, which they didn't, hitting 39%. That stretch when UNC was red-hot from three in the middle of the 2nd half was the difference.

THIS is exactly right! It's hard to beat a team like Carolina when you, essentially, have ONLY TWO players who can score points (and RJ Barrett didn't have a great offensive game. How many three's did he miss?). And no doubt, Cam, who kept us in the game the first half, got tired in the second half and lost his shot. I don't have the stats in front of me but how many points did everyone but RJ and Cam score?

[g4orce]

Per K earlier this week, over half our ACC games were played without a fully available team.

On top of that a wide-spread case of the flu (heard it was stomach flu ~ which would explain cramps RJ had a couple of games ago.) Takes time to recoup from that.

Tonight we lose Marques early in the game. Per Adam Rowe a few minutes ago, Cam was being tended too during huddle obviously wincing in pain (knee) from that non-called foul on the layup. Hmm.

Said that to say, while I hate we lost tonight, I still believe we have the ability to run the rest of the table. Get healthy over the next few days... get everyone back, and watch our mojo be restored. We just need everyone healthy.... AND HIT SOME @#=$&! FREE THROWS!

[rolm]

Yet again we had little scoring help from anybody other than RJ and Cam. Even with that, if Cam plays half as well as he did in the first half, we have a chance to win. Cam was 5-10 shooting at one point. Finished with 6-23 with only 6 second half points. Perhaps he was tired. Perhaps less focused. Perhaps not as aggressive. Probably a combination of all of the above. AOC had a horrible game. He either rushed his shot, or didn't shoot with confidence. Too much pressure on RJ, who was frustrated with his foul trouble to win this on his own in the second half. That 3-4 minute stretch when Coby White just took the game over had a huge impact. We played great defense after that, but our offense just couldn't capitalize.

Hope Bolden is ok, and healthy for the ACC tournament. I'm hoping that with the end of the regular season today, our bad luck with injuries is over and we get everyone healthy and hungry for the post season and they play with the focus that's needed in the elimination tournaments ahead. This group of guys have worked very hard and deserve a chance to show how good they can really be, together, when healthy. So here's to hoping that with Day light savings time starting tomorrow, this team's bad times are over and they have a spring in their step and with everyone healthy, they show everyone what they are capable of.

[jv001]

Undoubtedly, there will be a lot of drinkin' and a lot of pukin' in Chapel Hill. But, when the hangovers wear off, cheats are gonna remember we're on the same side of the bracket. Zion will be back (I presume) and RJ 'n company are going to be very, very fired up.

To paraphrase "Remember the Titans" ... "Run it up, K. Leave no doubt."

They've got two weeks to get over their hangovers because they don't have to attend classes. I can't put into words how much I hate their program and 99% of their fans. GoDuke!

[joeymax]

I haven't posted in over a year. Inspired today by all the charge calls on Barrett that were simply not charges.

Someone needs to sit every ref down and explain that if a person does not lean forward when they are making a quick move like that they would simply fall over. Barrett was not hitting anyone with his shoulder, not deliberately lowering it to push someone away. You have to lean forward to run; the refs do it themselves. Making the call just because a moving defender puts their chest in the way in nonsense.

Yes, you CAN hit someone with your shoulder. That's not what Barrett was doing at all. This call is getting really annoying this year.

[Kjeffrey]

THIS is exactly right! It's hard to beat a team like Carolina when you, essentially, have ONLY TWO players who can score points (and RJ Barrett didn't have a great offensive game. How many three's did he miss?). And no doubt, Cam, who kept us in the game the first half, got tired in the second half and lost his shot. I don't have the stats in front of me but how many points did everyone but RJ and Cam score?

21 points

[Reddevil]

I can’t imagine him walking on his own out of the tunnel with a tear. Likely a hyperextension or sprain.

But a sprain is a tear. I'm hoping for a bone bruise.

[azzefkram]

Seemed to run out of gas toward the end on the offensive end. I can't get too worked up by a winnable game on the road while missing two starters. Get healthy, win the quarters and then beat those miscreants by 50 in the ACC semis. Sending positive vibes to Marques.

[dukelifer]

The effort was there, especially after another freaking injury at the beginning of the game. We reacted better to injury this time and may have actually outrebounded them. And we were lights out on defense down the stretch.

But to pull off a small upset, we would've needed to shoot better than 25% from three. Or failing that, they had to shoot awful as well, which they didn't, hitting 39%. That stretch when UNC was red-hot from three in the middle of the 2nd half was the difference.

If you are down 5 with a couple minutes to go- there is always a chance. Duke did not execute down the stretch and that was most disappointing- Zion or no Zion. UNC almost handed Duke the game and Duke did not take advantage. We will see if Zion comes back. Right now- I see UNC with a 1 seed and in the FF and that is most demoralizing.

[Wildling]

Can't hit free throws, and can't make 3's. We're not going to win many games if that continues.

[jipops]

Bolden has MCL sprain. If it’s grade 1 we may see him for ncaat. If 2 or worse he’s done.

[Duke07]

MCL sprain per K

[dukelifer]

THIS is exactly right! It's hard to beat a team like Carolina when you, essentially, have ONLY TWO players who can score points (and RJ Barrett didn't have a great offensive game. How many three's did he miss?). And no doubt, Cam, who kept us in the game the first half, got tired in the second half and lost his shot. I don't have the stats in front of me but how many points did everyone but RJ and Cam score?

RJ shot 4-11. I would take that most games.

[dukelifer]

Bolden has MCL sprain. If it’s grade 1 we may see him for ncaat. If 2 or worse he’s done.

Not sure Duke has enough depth for a ACC tourney run.

[DangerDevil]

THIS is exactly right! It's hard to beat a team like Carolina when you, essentially, have ONLY TWO players who can score points (and RJ Barrett didn't have a great offensive game. How many three's did he miss?). And no doubt, Cam, who kept us in the game the first half, got tired in the second half and lost his shot. I don't have the stats in front of me but how many points did everyone but RJ and Cam score?

21

Tre had 9
Javin had 8
Jack had 4

[downeastdad]

Can't hit free throws, and can't make 3's. We're not going to win many games if that continues.

Agree on the threes, but 12-17 from the line didn't lose this game.

[devildeac]

Bolden has MCL sprain. If it’s grade 1 we may see him for ncaat. If 2 or worse he’s done.


MCL sprain per K

@#$%

Day to day?

<exit, stage left>

[DoWorkDukie]

we were completely overmatched....had to rely on hero ball to have any shot, and that's tough at UNC

hate that we just got swept by UNC...

[Kjeffrey]

Tough loss for Duke. Without Zion, you prob need things to go near perfect to beat a top 5 team on the road. Another bad 3pt outing (even by this year's Duke team's standards), losing Bolden then hurt you a little even though I thought DeLaurier was really good today, and Barrett getting into foul trouble (deserved or not) made it almost impossible to win.

Won't surprise me one bit if Zion integrates back in and you guys run off 9 straight wins (though it'll disappoint me greatly since I'm hoping for a historic season for UVa, obviously).

Duke is not the same team without Zion. But they were down five with just a few minutes left. Some better decision making and fresh legs making would have helped. That game was winnable and things were not anywhere near perfect.

[Troublemaker]

I'm not sure the problem is our 25% shooting, that's just kind of who we are.

Well, the context was pulling off a small upset. To do that, you'd like some three-point luck to go your way -- either us shooting higher than season average, or them shooting lower. But both teams pretty much shot their usual percentages - us a little bit lower, them a little bit higher.

I'm not saying that was the cause of the loss, if that's what you're objecting to. Just saying, we could've used some luck to go our way -- injury luck, refereeing luck, or shooting luck.

[devildeac]

Agree on the threes, but 12-17 from the line didn't lose this game.

1. 25% 3s

2. 34% FGs

3. No Z

4. No MB

5. PoS B1G reject ref, @#$% tv teddy

[Saratoga2]

Yet again we had little scoring help from anybody other than RJ and Cam. Even with that, if Cam plays half as well as he did in the first half, we have a chance to win. Cam was 5-10 shooting at one point. Finished with 6-23 with only 6 second half points. Perhaps he was tired. Perhaps less focused. Perhaps not as aggressive. Probably a combination of all of the above. AOC had a horrible game. He either rushed his shot, or didn't shoot with confidence. Too much pressure on RJ, who was frustrated with his foul trouble to win this on his own in the second half. That 3-4 minute stretch when Coby White just took the game over had a huge impact. We played great defense after that, but our offense just couldn't capitalize.

Hope Bolden is ok, and healthy for the ACC tournament. I'm hoping that with the end of the regular season today, our bad luck with injuries is over and we get everyone healthy and hungry for the post season and they play with the focus that's needed in the elimination tournaments ahead. This group of guys have worked very hard and deserve a chance to show how good they can really be, together, when healthy. So here's to hoping that with Day light savings time starting tomorrow, this team's bad times are over and they have a spring in their step and with everyone healthy, they show everyone what they are capable of.

I haven't checked the box score but thought Tre and Javin both contributed around 8 or 9 apiece and Jack may have had 4, missing several bunnies. The only other possible scorer was Alex who just didn't hit anything tonight.

[duketaylor]

Zion's back phase? Superman returns? Everyone still picks Duke to win everything phase? PROLLY.

Duke wins another NC phase!!?? I'm good for that!!

[DangerDevil]

I haven't checked the box score but thought Tre and Javin both contributed around 8 or 9 apiece and Jack may have had 4, missing several bunnies. The only other possible scorer was Alex who just didn't hit anything tonight.

Close: Tre 9, Javin 8, Jack 4

[arnie]

Not sure Duke has enough depth for a ACC tourney run.

Without Bolden, I agree. I fear our season has 4-5 games left max.

[dukelifer]

we were completely overmatched...had to rely on hero ball to have any shot, and that's tough at UNC

hate that we just got swept by UNC...

I guess you watched a different game.

[jv001]

I don't think I've complained about the refs all year, but these guys were horrible. I hope we don't see one of these fake ACC refs in the NCAAT.

Now for the game: I was proud of our guys for never giving up. They hustled most of the game. The only time I saw a Duke player loafing was at the beginning of the game when RJ didn't hustle back down court. Alex had one of his worse games tonight and not because he missed open shots but his defense was bad. I'll have to look again at the recording but I think he was on the court when the cheats took the lead. Coach K took him out and put Jack into the game and we came back to make it close. That stretch where their White couldn't miss killed us.
I hope Marques is not injured badly because we need him. When Jack has to play the opposing big men, it isn't good. We need our two headed center position at full strength. Jack seems to have let his poor outside shooting affect his ability to make a layup. But he sure played good defense and rebounded well.
What we need is a healthy Zion and that will cure a lot of the problems. GoDuke!

[bluenorth]

I still have faith in this team. Short-handed, they still battled all the way. Reddish stepped up in the first half, RJ was his usual, White played his role, DeLaurier did his job - there were a lot of positives. In my mind if the team can get healthy then they can beat anyone and everyone. Really hoping for a re-match with UNC next Friday, with a refreshed Zion.

One thing that could be a worry is Jones. He seemed to be slow to get up whenever he was knocked down. He may be playing at less than 100% too.

[ncexnyc]

Great effort, but we aren't going to win many games when only two players are a constant threat to score.

For me the biggest disappointment had to be AOC. All the other guys not named Cam or RJ did what you'd expect them to, but AOC seemed to be overwhelmed by the moment.

[dukelifer]

I still have faith in this team. Short-handed, they still battled all the way. Reddish stepped up in the first half, RJ was his usual, White played his role, DeLaurier did his job - there were a lot of positives. In my mind if the team can get healthy then they can beat anyone and everyone. Really hoping for a re-match with UNC next Friday, with a refreshed Zion.

One thing that could be a worry is Jones. He seemed to be slow to get up whenever he was knocked down. He may be playing at less than 100% too.

Jones and now Reddish is gimpy. This team has been bitten by the injury bug at the wrong time.

[scottdude8]

I’ll just leave this here.9146

[MarkD83]

Zion's back phase? Superman returns? Everyone still picks Duke to win everything phase? PROLLY.

Duke wins another NC phase!!?? I'm good for that!!

The phase where we sit everyone so they don’t get hurt

[Wildling]

I’ll just leave this here.9146

Could you make it bigger? I know my eyesight is bad, but that image is pretty small.

[bluenorth]

As far as the refereeing goes, you have to expect calls like that. Most block/charge situations could go either way, and refs being (somewhat) human, they tend to favor the home team. I can't quote the source, but there was a study done that showed that on a subconscious level this is what happens. The refs don't try to give the home team the benefit of the 50/50 calls, but it happens anyway.

[subzero02]

It appears that sarcasm is wasted on some on this board.

apparently you didn't read his comment during the in-game thread where he stated that Zion's presence wouldn't have changed the outcome of this game.



kind of sour grapes comments. I’m not sure even with Zion in much would change the outcome here

or this comment


Frankly it doesn’t matter and a pointless debate. Can’t just have two players on a team. Rest of group is really disappointing

or this one


Zion in wouldn’t change coby white destroying our defense. And the outcome being we are going to lose this game under any circumstance.

It appears that some on this board have trouble identifying blatant trolling...

[jv001]

As far as the refereeing goes, you have to expect calls like that. Most block/charge situations could go either way, and refs being (somewhat) human, they tend to favor the home team. I can't quote the source, but there was a study done that showed that on a subconscious level this is what happens. The refs don't try to give the home team the benefit of the 50/50 calls, but it happens anyway.

No, the ACC refs just suck. They have always sucked. All the way back to Dick Paparo(sp), Lenny Wirtz and others. The only good ref was Hank Nichols. GoDuke!

[CDu]

26 points on 27 shots and3 FTA for Barrett. 23 points on 23 shots and 10 FTA for Reddish. It is hard to win when your two best players are both below 50% TS%.

Defense was good enough to win. Offense wasn’t.

Thank goodness UVa took care of business to hold UNC to just a share of the regular season and out of sole possession. Otherwise there is a good chance UNC would have put a firm grasp of a 1 seed. As of now, we at least have an outside chance at a 1 seed.

Tough loss. Expected loss, but still tough.

[devilsince1977]

1. 25% 3s

2. 34% FGs

3. No Z

4. No MB

5. PoS B1G reject ref, @#$% tv teddy

Roger Ayers isn't any better.

[Kedsy]

Duke was without it’s two best rebounders and paint players.

Losing Marques hurt in a lot of ways, but he's really our fourth best rebounder (5th best at defensive rebounds).


I don't know what happened with our inability to develop any semblance of a bench.

We have exactly one top 50 recruit outside our starting five, and Javin (#35 three years ago) played great. When almost all our top 50 recruits leave early or transfer if they don't play much as underclassmen, I'm not sure what more we can expect.


Not sure Duke has enough depth for a ACC tourney run.

In 2017 (i.e., two years ago), we played four ACC tournament games and won all four playing just seven guys (and our 7th man averaged only 11 mpg in the four games). Even if Marques doesn't play, this team is at least as deep as that one.

Oh, and UNC has less depth than Duke. Do they have enough for a run?


They may not win another game.

OK, you win the award for silliest comment of the week.

[bluenorth]

No, the ACC refs just suck. They have always sucked. All the way back to Dick Paparo(sp), Lenny Wirtz and others. The only good ref was Hank Nichols. GoDuke!

I have to admit that Valentine has never impressed me. And yet he seems to appear again and again in big games. There must be some younger guys that can be brought along.

[Saratoga2]

As far as the refereeing goes, you have to expect calls like that. Most block/charge situations could go either way, and refs being (somewhat) human, they tend to favor the home team. I can't quote the source, but there was a study done that showed that on a subconscious level this is what happens. The refs don't try to give the home team the benefit of the 50/50 calls, but it happens anyway.

There were questionable calls both ways. ON one Jack had a clear block called a foul while I'm sure we got lucky on some. I would refrain from using the refs as an excuse. We were shorthanded, the guys played hard. We reverted to forcing the ball at the end with two fatigued players and our decision making got bad. Clearly we need Zion to spread the offense and we need Marques to give us enough quality bodies to avoid being exhausted at the end, especially when playing in a high # of possessions game.

[Dukehky]

9 point loss down two starters and 0 points from our other "3 point shooters" in White and AOC.

Things could have been a lot worse.

I feel so badly for Bolden, I hope his season's not over.

[jv001]

I have to admit that Valentine has never impressed me. And yet he seems to appear again and again in big games. There must be some younger guys that can be brought along.

Yeh, it's all about Teddy when he's doing a game. GoDuke1

[Edouble]

There were questionable calls both ways. ON one Jack had a clear block called a foul while I'm sure we got lucky on some. I would refrain from using the refs as an excuse. We were shorthanded, the guys played hard. We reverted to forcing the ball at the end with two fatigued players and our decision making got bad. Clearly we need Zion to spread the offense and we need Marques to give us enough quality bodies to avoid being exhausted at the end, especially when playing in a high # of possessions game.

If we have Zion playing ~30 minutes though, we don't need Marques (or whoever) to give us another quality body as badly.

I'm a "never say never" type of fan, particularly with the history of occasional miracles from Duke basketball, but I don't see a scenario where we make it to the ACC championship game on Saturday without Zion back, if Marques is out for several weeks now.

[jipops]

It’s a lock that the media will give Roy ACC coy. This despite Bennett’s team winning at ufc and playing a far tougher road ACC schedule.

Roy’s team is darn good and he has them surging at the right time. But the light road schedule has been beneficial.

[tmoon78]

I don’t understand why everyone is so distraught over this game. I know it’s UNC so everything hurts a little more but honestly this game matters very little in the grand scheme of things. This was a 5 point game with two minutes to go in chapel hill on senior night, minus two starters, including one who is the clear npoy and with R.J. Barrett getting called for 3 ridiculous charge calls that basically made him a jump shooter for the entire second half. This Duke team has lost exactly one game with its entire roster and that was in November by two points to the number one team in the nation on its 3rd game in three nights. Do you not remember how a month ago we were the clear number one team by everybody’s ranking system including everybody’s darling Kenpom? How we just manhandled UVA on their homecourt and had one of the greatest comebacks against Louisville two days later? You can’t lose a generational talent on both ends of the court and not expect a little fallback. The last three weeks without Zion have basically been all about survival and Duke did just that. The only thing Duke lost in those three weeks was the meaningless unbalanced ACC regular season. Get Zion back next Thursday and the number one seed is still ours to lose and we go into the NCAA tournament as the prohibitive favorite.

[WakeDevil]

As far as the refereeing goes, you have to expect calls like that. Most block/charge situations could go either way, and refs being (somewhat) human, they tend to favor the home team. I can't quote the source, but there was a study done that showed that on a subconscious level this is what happens. The refs don't try to give the home team the benefit of the 50/50 calls, but it happens anyway.

I know Covington because he attends our local clinics. Next October, I am going to ask him, "Why do you guys hate RJ Barrett so much?"

[Troublemaker]

26 points on 27 shots and3 FTA for Barrett. 23 points on 23 shots and 10 FTA for Reddish. It is hard to win when your two best players are both below 50% TS%.

Defense was good enough to win. Offense wasn’t.

Thank goodness UVa took care of business to hold UNC to just a share of the regular season and out of sole possession. Otherwise there is a good chance UNC would have put a firm grasp of a 1 seed. As of now, we at least have an outside chance at a 1 seed.

Tough loss. Expected loss, but still tough.

I suspect Duke still has a 1 seed even after this loss, but we obviously need to play well in the ACCT when Zion returns.

http://www.bracketmatrix.com/ - the fourth #1 seed, Tennessee, lost today so they're moving down. Next in line is Kentucky, a team Duke blew out. UNC probably moves up to the 1-line, replacing Tennessee, but it's at least arguable whether they're ahead of Duke having not played us at full-strength.

If I had to guess - the overall ranking of 1-seeds right now is: UVA, Gonzaga, Duke, UNC. But even if you flip UNC and Duke, who cares as long as Zion is back? UNC's placement is temporary unless they can beat Duke with Zion.

[Dukehky]

It’s a lock that the media will give Roy ACC coy. This despite Bennett’s team winning at ufc and playing a far tougher road ACC schedule.

Roy’s team is darn good and he has them surging at the right time. But the light road schedule has been beneficial.

I think this is Roy's best coaching job, honestly. This is the first time his team is not loaded with upper class McDonald's all Americans. Maye Johnson and Williams turned into really solid players, he's gotten some stuff from Brooks who is generally garbage, and he's integrated a turnover prone freshman PG. This all without their real blue chipper being any good.

I still hate them and everything they stand for, but this has been his best job.

[freshmanjs]

I don’t understand why everyone is so distraught over this game. I know it’s UNC so everything hurts a little more but honestly this game matters very little in the grand scheme of things. This was a 5 point game with two minutes to go in chapel hill on senior night, minus two starters, including one who is the clear npoy and with R.J. Barrett getting called for 3 ridiculous charge calls that basically made him a jump shooter for the entire second half. This Duke team has lost exactly one game with its entire roster and that was in November by two points to the number one team in the nation on its 3rd game in three nights. Do you not remember how a month ago we were the clear number one team by everybody’s ranking system including everybody’s darling Kenpom? How we just manhandled UVA on their homecourt and had one of the greatest comebacks against Louisville two days later? You can’t lose a generational talent on both ends of the court and not expect a little fallback. The last three weeks without Zion have basically been all about survival and Duke did just that. The only thing Duke lost in those three weeks was the meaningless unbalanced ACC regular season. Get Zion back next Thursday and the number one seed is still ours to lose and we go into the NCAA tournament as the prohibitive favorite.

One reason is that we are unlikely to play another game at full strength until at least the sw16, possibly the final four. That makes things a lot tougher.

[subzero02]

Yes my sentiments exactly. Not sure subzero is the sharpest tool in the shed

Would you please elaborate on your argument that having Zion on the court would not have changed the outcome of this game?

[Edouble]

I don’t understand why everyone is so distraught over this game. I know it’s UNC so everything hurts a little more but honestly this game matters very little in the grand scheme of things. This was a 5 point game with two minutes to go in chapel hill on senior night, minus two starters, including one who is the clear npoy and with R.J. Barrett getting called for 3 ridiculous charge calls that basically made him a jump shooter for the entire second half. This Duke team has lost exactly one game with its entire roster and that was in November by two points to the number one team in the nation on its 3rd game in three nights. Do you not remember how a month ago we were the clear number one team by everybody’s ranking system including everybody’s darling Kenpom? How we just manhandled UVA on their homecourt and had one of the greatest comebacks against Louisville two days later? You can’t lose a generational talent on both ends of the court and not expect a little fallback. The last three weeks without Zion have basically been all about survival and Duke did just that. The only thing Duke lost in those three weeks was the meaningless unbalanced ACC regular season. Get Zion back next Thursday and the number one seed is still ours to lose and we go into the NCAA tournament as the prohibitive favorite.

We just got swept in the regular season by our most hated rival.

We lost Bolden. We are now down to 3 of 5 starters.

[Dukehky]

We just got swept in the regular season by our most hated rival.

We lost Bolden. We are now down to 3 of 5 starters.

Bolden's rim protection has been so crucial in the games he played well. I'm not totally sure that we'll need him until the sweet sixteen though if the other beast is back.

I still think if we play them next Friday, the winner gets the 1 seed.

[Troublemaker]

I don’t understand why everyone is so distraught over this game. I know it’s UNC so everything hurts a little more but honestly this game matters very little in the grand scheme of things. This was a 5 point game with two minutes to go in chapel hill on senior night, minus two starters, including one who is the clear npoy and with R.J. Barrett getting called for 3 ridiculous charge calls that basically made him a jump shooter for the entire second half. This Duke team has lost exactly one game with its entire roster and that was in November by two points to the number one team in the nation on its 3rd game in three nights. Do you not remember how a month ago we were the clear number one team by everybody’s ranking system including everybody’s darling Kenpom? How we just manhandled UVA on their homecourt and had one of the greatest comebacks against Louisville two days later? You can’t lose a generational talent on both ends of the court and not expect a little fallback. The last three weeks without Zion have basically been all about survival and Duke did just that. The only thing Duke lost in those three weeks was the meaningless unbalanced ACC regular season. Get Zion back next Thursday and the number one seed is still ours to lose and we go into the NCAA tournament as the prohibitive favorite.

I think people are reacting pretty well, actually. (Although it's possible the mods have deleted many posts). It just stinks that UNC swept us.

[tmoon78]

We just got swept in the regular season by our most hated rival.

We lost Bolden. We are now down to 3 of 5 starters.

Zion is back Thursday. The Bolden loss does suck but this loss will be forgotten when Duke defeats Unc next Friday.

[dukelifer]

Losing Marques hurt in a lot of ways, but he's really our fourth best rebounder (5th best at defensive rebounds).



We have exactly one top 50 recruit outside our starting five, and Javin (#35 three years ago) played great. When almost all our top 50 recruits leave early or transfer if they don't play much as underclassmen, I'm not sure what more we can expect.



In 2017 (i.e., two years ago), we played four ACC tournament games and won all four playing just seven guys (and our 7th man averaged only 11 mpg in the four games). Even if Marques doesn't play, this team is at least as deep as that one.

Oh, and UNC has less depth than Duke. Do they have enough for a run?



OK, you win the award for silliest comment of the week.

I am also assuming Zion is not able to go all three games at 35 minutes/game. That 2017 team's run was impressive but they had a ton of experience as does this years UNC team. This Duke team does not.

[Wildling]

Yeh, it's all about Teddy when he's doing a game. GoDuke1

Yep. There is a reason he's called "TV Teddy".

[wavedukefan70s]

We just got swept in the regular season by our most hated rival.

We lost Bolden. We are now down to 3 of 5 starters.

No where to go but up.we can do this.

[jv001]

I suspect Duke still has a 1 seed even after this loss, but we obviously need to play well in the ACCT when Zion returns.

http://www.bracketmatrix.com/ - the fourth #1 seed, Tennessee, lost today so they're moving down. Next in line is Kentucky, a team Duke blew out. UNC probably moves up to the 1-line, replacing Tennessee, but it's at least arguable whether they're ahead of Duke having not played us at full-strength.

If I had to guess - the overall ranking of 1-seeds right now is: UVA, Gonzaga, Duke, UNC. But even if you flip UNC and Duke, who cares as long as Zion is back? UNC's placement is temporary unless they can beat Duke with Zion.

I'm with you. I think Duke get's a #1 seed unless we lose the first game in the ACCT. My main concern now is depth with Marques out for that tournament. I know we have Alex and Jack, but we don't know whether we see the good Jack and Alex or the bad ones. We can depend on Jack playing a good floor game regardless if he's not hitting shots. But we can't depend on Alex for much of anything other than his 3 point shot if he's on. The main thing is to get a healthy Zion back and most things should be ok. GoDuke!

[SkyBrickey]

If there is a rematch, I really like our chances with Zion back.

Gutsy positive minutes out of Javin today.

[Stray Gator]

Can't hit free throws, and can't make 3's. We're not going to win many games if that continues.

Take out the two misses by Javin, and Duke shot 12-15, or 80%, from the free throw line tonight; the team total was still 71%. I don't think that warrants any complaints. What was really unusual about this game is that UNC not only had fewer trips to the line than the visiting team, but only made 54% (7-13) of their free throws.

While I understand that some Duke fans are frustrated about this loss, I believe our coaches and players deserve to be applauded for a valiant effort under incredibly difficult circumstances -- playing a higher-ranked team on their home court in a high-stakes rivalry game on their senior night while missing two of our starters, including a generational talent who dominates and dramatically alters the game on both ends of the floor. I would have hoped that Duke fans here would be proud of the team and would express their appreciation for the fact that our guys played hard throughout, fought off multiple adversities, and never gave up -- that we as fans would show our support by making clear that we are disappointed for them, not at them. Instead, some of the griping and disrespectful comments being directed at members of our team in the game and post-game threads tonight are among the most embarrassing I can ever recall seeing on this board. To me, that's no less disheartening than the outcome of the game.

[SupaDave]

I think I would prefer they lose in the first round of the ACC tournament than to be humiliated by the Heels 3 straight times. They need to make free throws. I think Bolden maybe the only player that can reliably shoot a free throw. Who would have thought at the beginning of the year that Bolden would be the best free throw shooter. If they make it to 2nd round and face the Heels again, who will go down to injury next? Biggest disappointment-so much potential wasted. They may not win another game. At least they played hard.

Something fishy here...

[Edouble]

Bolden's rim protection has been so crucial in the games he played well. I'm not totally sure that we'll need him until the sweet sixteen though if the other beast is back.

I still think if we play them next Friday, the winner gets the 1 seed.

Agree, the fifth starter and final front court player can be by committee. Javin played great today. Jack seems to be back out of his slump and played some great defense today as well.

After waiting for him to do so for three years, Bolden is finally playing at a high level. It is extremely disappointing to not have this extra piece as we round into form for March. We don't have another player like him and every bit of versatility helps.

[robed deity]

Good effort, but just not enough to get it done. Man, I hate getting swept by those guys. Hope Bolden can come back, and that Zion can come back and be himself. I just went back and looked at his box score plus minus stats and my God...to expect the team to just keep motoring along without him is ridiculous.

[subzero02]

If there is a rematch, I really like our chances with Zion back.

Gutsy positive minutes out of Javin today.

Javin made some very nice plays today but he lacks awareness on switches in the halfcourt. He cost at least one open Coby White 3 pointer... he also fouled Coby when he was beaten baseline on an and-1 3 point play. Even if Zion doesn't hit double figure in scoring today, his defense and rebounding would likely have been enough for us to pull off the win. I really want the rematch on Friday.

[jipops]

I think this is Roy's best coaching job, honestly. This is the first time his team is not loaded with upper class McDonald's all Americans. Maye Johnson and Williams turned into really solid players, he's gotten some stuff from Brooks who is generally garbage, and he's integrated a turnover prone freshman PG. This all without their real blue chipper being any good.

I still hate them and everything they stand for, but this has been his best job.

And UVA’s upper McDonald’s All Ams are?...

Yes Roy has done a fine job. He also has an experienced elite shooting team so it’s not like he is working with little here. The most impressive bit of this team is its defense.

Bennett makes the better case. But Roy coaches the program with the bigger brand with the perception that you just described. Even if Bennett may actually be working with less.

[lotusland]

Zion and RJ are the only consistent scorers for Duke this year. uNCheat is a better team than Duke without Zion although it pains me to admit it.

[Dukehky]

And UVA’s upper McDonald’s All Ams are?...

Yes Roy has done a fine job. He also has an experienced elite shooting team so it’s not like he is working with little here. The most impressive bit of this team is its defense.

Bennett makes the better case. But Roy coaches the program with the bigger brand with the perception that you just described. Even if Bennett may actually be working with less.

Look dude, I hate him as much as anyone can possibly hate him. I think he's gotten a huge benefit of the doubt his entire career when he's been mediocre at best. I didn't even say that he should be coach of the year, I just said this has been HIS most impressive year coaching. No he doesn't have scrubs, they're a really good team, but they were atrocious on defense early in the year, they don't exactly have studs who can defend 1 on 1 super well, but they've figured it out for the most part.

[devildeac]

Could you make it bigger? I know my eyesight is bad, but that image is pretty small.

9147

Worked for me, but it was still kinda small and blurry and I tried it with and without my progressive lenses. :o

[tmoon78]

I think people are reacting pretty well, actually. (Although it's possible the mods have deleted many posts). It just stinks that UNC swept us.

You might be correct. I may have been remembering the game thread comments and not the postgame thread.

[jv001]

Look dude, I hate him as much as anyone can possibly hate him. I think he's gotten a huge benefit of the doubt his entire career when he's been mediocre at best. I didn't even say that he should be coach of the year, I just said this has been HIS most impressive year coaching. No he doesn't have scrubs, they're a really good team, but they were atrocious on defense early in the year, they don't exactly have studs who can defend 1 on 1 super well, but they've figured it out for the most part.

But he's also had the benefit of a really good home schedule. Roy's a good coach but not as good as Bennett. GoDuke!

[Edouble]

Could you make it bigger? I know my eyesight is bad, but that image is pretty small.

It says:

"It's been a heck of a conference season. We fought hard today. I am proud of my guys... Everyone's 0-0 now and we go forward... I think we'll get Zion back for Thursday."

-Coach K

[kaufmjo]

It says:

"It's been a heck of a conference season. We fought hard today. I am proud of my guys... Everyone's 0-0 now and we go forward... I think we'll get Zion back for Thursday."

-Coach K

Best news we’ve had in a while. Great to hear

[CoachJ10]

Deserves so much better than the clowns in stripes the consistently put out there. Bad call after bad call tonight (including a ridiculous amount of non calls).

If Bilas listened to his commentary tomorrow, would he have any shame about how often he is wrong?

Our guys played their butts off tonight. If Colby White doesnt hit a couple of those dagger 3s, I think we pull it out.

And lets be clear, with Zion in the paint...the amount of offensive and defensive rebounding breaks that the Tarholes got are eliminated and then some.

[Saratoga2]

Deserves so much better than the clowns in stripes the consistently put out there. Bad call after bad call tonight (including a ridiculous amount of non calls).

If Bilas listened to his commentary tomorrow, would he have any shame about how often he is wrong?

Our guys played their butts off tonight. If Colby White doesnt hit a couple of those dagger 3s, I think we pull it out.

And lets be clear, with Zion in the paint...the amount of offensive and defensive rebounding breaks that the Tar Heels got are eliminated and then some.

Tre did very well defensively against Colby. I think if you rewatch the game, Colby's scoring came when he was guarded by others.

[jipops]

Look dude, I hate him as much as anyone can possibly hate him. I think he's gotten a huge benefit of the doubt his entire career when he's been mediocre at best. I didn't even say that he should be coach of the year, I just said this has been HIS most impressive year coaching. No he doesn't have scrubs, they're a really good team, but they were atrocious on defense early in the year, they don't exactly have studs who can defend 1 on 1 super well, but they've figured it out for the most part.

Ok dude. By saying this is Roy’s best coaching job I think it’s understandable that this be interpreted as an implication that he is deserving of the coy award.

I think most would argue that 2006 was his best job. I personally don’t buy into coaches being as much of a factor as many seem to, but they obviously carry some weight.

[Bluedog]

Tre did very well defensively against Colby. I think if you rewatch the game, Colby's scoring came when he was guarded by others.


Deserves so much better than the clowns in stripes the consistently put out there. Bad call after bad call tonight (including a ridiculous amount of non calls).

If Bilas listened to his commentary tomorrow, would he have any shame about how often he is wrong?

Our guys played their butts off tonight. If Colby White doesnt hit a couple of those dagger 3s, I think we pull it out.

And lets be clear, with Zion in the paint...the amount of offensive and defensive rebounding breaks that the Tar Heels got are eliminated and then some.

His name is "Coby." Same as Kobe Bryant, just spelled differently because it comes from his middle name which is "Jacoby."

[barjwr]

Ironic moment.

I went to YouTube to watch replays of better outcomes against unc from past seasons. Watching the 2004 game in chapel hill (when Duhon scores the game winner in OT), and Dick Vitale is blathering about the rivalry. He talks about how much class there is in the rivalry, and how the schools make it better by doing it the right way and going to class . . . just as Rashad McCants is shooting free throws.

Maybe it’s the bourbon, but that was really funny to me. It’s just shy of 2 min left in OT.

[Edouble]

Damn, I am in a terrible mood, I can hardly function... we all think that after this game against the most cheating, dumbest, stupidest team in the history of sport we are out of the woods and Zion is back, only to have Marques injured in the first two minutes!

Again?!?! We just went through this.

I am in such a s*** mood... just sitting here refreshing the thread feeds over and over. I feel like drinking beer and eating ice cream until I pass out on the floor.

If anyone else is feeling this way, please know that you are completely justified.

[BigZ]

RJ didn’t drive in the second half bc the crappy refs

[CDu]

I will say that Jones and DeLaurier were terrific. The defense in general was terrific. White and Barrett contributed on the defensive glass, and Reddish contributed with blocks and steals.

Unfortunately, the offense just wasn’t nearly good enough. Reddish shot 6-23 and Barrett was only slightly less inefficient at 10-27. That was the difference. Our stars just didn’t make shots at a high enough rate to win. Even still, we had our chances.

Hopefully we get to face them with Zion back next week. Hopefully Barrett and Reddish score better too. Frustrating end to the regular season. Hopefully we get healthy in time.

[Dukehk]

I still feel we should be a #1 seed despite this loss. I'm wondering if the committee will be seeing the same, or if they are waiting for our results in the ACC tournament.

I guess if we beat the holes and virginia to win the tournament we are a lock for a 1 seed?

We just can't catch a break this year. Bolden is a huge loss, but hopefully he will be back by the second week of the tournament. We really need him for rebounding and shot blocking, especially if Zion gets in foul trouble at some point.

[Edouble]

I still feel we should be a #1 seed despite this loss. I'm wondering if the committee will be seeing the same, or if they are waiting for our results in the ACC tournament.

I guess if we beat the holes and virginia to win the tournament we are a lock for a 1 seed?

We just can't catch a break this year. Bolden is a huge loss, but hopefully he will be back by the second week of the tournament. We really need him for rebounding and shot blocking, especially if Zion gets in foul trouble at some point.

Yes, guaranteed.

[duke2x]

If I had to guess - the overall ranking of 1-seeds right now is: UVA, Gonzaga, Duke, UNC. But even if you flip UNC and Duke, who cares as long as Zion is back? UNC's placement is temporary unless they can beat Duke with Zion.

I think our placement is pretty easy to figure with or without Zion. Without Zion, we are very unlikely to win the ACC Tournament. With Zion, we're the favorites.

Duke wins the ACC Tournament = Duke #1 East and probable overall #1, particularly if we beat UVA a 3rd time.
Duke loses the ACC Tournament final = #1 in MW. I think KY or TN will win the SEC Tournament to take the South.
Duke loses before the ACC Tournament final = TBD, but probable #2 seed with Gonzaga, KY, or TN. Keep in mind KY will get the same (if any) consideration that we do because of the Travis injury.

I don't gamble with money or pastry, but I'll predict against chalk matchups for the ACC. I think there's one big win left in Louisville, Syracuse, FSU, or VT yet.

[Acymetric]

Yes, guaranteed.

Agreed. I also think we have to make the final to get a 1 (loss in the first or second round knocks us down to a 2).

[CoachJ10]

Tre did very well defensively against Colby. I think if you rewatch the game, Colby's scoring came when he was guarded by others.

Not sure who said otherwise. Tre was fantastic on defense.

[DUKIE V(A)]

Tough loss tonight but exceptionally proud of the team. This team has faced an incredible amount of adversity and faced an extremely daunting schedule. I think someone said today that Duke has played as many top 5 teams during the regular season as any team in the history of college basketball.

I am very excited to get Zion back on Thursday but that does not hand us a thing. If the seedings hold, Syracuse, Carolina, and UVA in consecutive nights will be as tough a stretch as any team will face this season. Praying that Bolden can get back to 100 percent at some point this season — he is an underrated player.

One game at a time, but next Friday will be fun. Ultimately, I believe we have two dates with UVA looming. What they have done the last few years is incredible. The loss to UMBC could have happened to anybody on a given night - even to a team as tough and consistent and well coached as UVA. I am impressed with their ability to keep winning. It’s gonna be us or them for the ACC and National titles.

Carolina is a very good team, but they are flawed defensively and I do not believe White is a very good decision maker. I would not bet on them to make the Final Four. Tonight UNC certainly benefited from our injuries and the calls on RJ (which perhaps other refs leave as no calls or call on Williams). Totally changed the way RJ played on both ends of the floor. Unfortunately, refs are part of the game and we are going to need to adapt and overcome moving forward. I love our coach, our fight, our fans, and our team. Looking forward to Thursday night. GO DUKE!

[Skydog]

I'm the last to complain about calls and usually skip over posts that focus on them, but that was ridiculous. The repeated charging calls on RJ looked like such clear blocking fouls. The ref was basically saying if you lower your head to drive to the basket anyone can run into your path without worrying about being set. If those are properly called it changes the flow and energy of the game.

With that being said and despite the massive appreciation I have of RJ's amazing offensive skills and effort (tonight was a rare off night) I also have been really disappointed in his defensive efforts (or lack of) over several games now. I watch our games in semi-real time on DVR and pretty much every time we allow an easy uncontested layup or dunk I back up my DVR to see how we broke down so badly. It seems like 80% of the time the main culprit is RJ. Sometimes he just loses track of his man, sometimes he just stops following his man, and sometimes he never even bothers to pick up a man. On the latter type of possessions, including tonight before he even got in foul trouble, he will just stand around in the middle of the lane leaving his 4 teammates to chase 5 opponents. It would be more acceptable if he used these self-selected personal zone D possessions to backstop his teammates. But most of the time when he sees a driver get free and he is in a good position to attempt a stop he instead just backs off and allows the easy layup. And I'm sure it can't be true but sometimes his lack of effort on these plays and unconcerned expression after allowing an easy score makes it look like he only cares about getting back on offense where he can do his miracles. With the rest of the team you can see their frustration, maybe just for a split second, when they fail to stop an opponent. RJ not so much. He often acts like he's just concerned about one end of the floor and it's not the defensive end.

tldr vers: RJ got screwed on the calls tonight, as most everyone will agree. AND RJ needs to show a LOT more effort on the defensive end, as few will agree.

[g-money]

I thought we played with a lot of heart today. We can all be proud of the fact that we fought back to make it a close game late.

My main takeaway from this game is that, if we find ourselves in a tight spot in the waning moments of our games going forward, we need to put the ball in Tre’s hands. He’s the best decision maker on our team and has clutch plays in his blood.

[ChicagoHeel]

I can understand why everyone is upset as it sucks to get swept. But I don’t understand the pessimism. You lost by five while down two starters on the road against a top five team. You’re about to get back a transcendant talent. Assuming you’ve used up all your bad luck, there is every reason to think you will both get revenge next week and make the Final Four. It’s hard to beat a team three times, period; when you’re adding a talent like Zion it’s an even bigger challenge.

I hate Duke and Coach K with all my soul, but man what a classy post-game conference. I almost wished I hadn’t watched it.

[Dukehk]

I think this is Roy's best coaching job, honestly. This is the first time his team is not loaded with upper class McDonald's all Americans. Maye Johnson and Williams turned into really solid players, he's gotten some stuff from Brooks who is generally garbage, and he's integrated a turnover prone freshman PG. This all without their real blue chipper being any good.

I still hate them and everything they stand for, but this has been his best job.

He has done a good job, but i think its masked by a ridiculously easy schedule. They never had to go on the road against some of the tougher teams, i.e. virginia, virginia tech, florida state.

Their only road win against a ranked opponent, was vs. louisville in a revenge game which they got smacked by 20 pts at home. Every single one of their significant wins was at home otherwise.

They also had the fortitude of playing us with Zion for 33 seconds. Then a second time with us losing yet ANOTHER starter. I still maintain that the second they come up against a top team, they will fold immediately. Virginia came into their house and beat them. I have no doubts we can do the same in the ACC tournament with Zion back (and 100%).

[Edouble]

Tough loss tonight but exceptionally proud of the team. This team has faced an incredible amount of adversity and faced an extremely daunting schedule. I think someone said today that Duke has played as many top 5 teams during the regular season as any team in the history of college basketball.

I am very excited to get Zion back on Thursday but that does not hand us a thing. If the seedings hold, Syracuse, Carolina, and UVA in consecutive nights will be as tough a stretch as any team will face this season. Praying that Bolden can get back to 100 percent at some point this season — he is an underrated player.

One game at a time, but next Friday will be fun. Ultimately, I believe we have two dates with UVA looming. What they have done the last few years is incredible. The loss to UMBC could have happened to anybody on a given night - even to a team as tough and consistent and well coached as UVA. I am impressed with their ability to keep winning. It’s gonna be us or them for the ACC and National titles.

Carolina is a very good team, but they are flawed defensively and I do not believe White is a very good decision maker. I would not bet on them to make the Final Four. Tonight UNC certainly benefited from our injuries and the calls on RJ (which perhaps other refs leave as no calls or call on Williams). Totally changed the way RJ played on both ends of the floor. Unfortunately, refs are part of the game and we are going to need to adapt and overcome moving forward. I love our coach, our fight, our fans, and our team. Looking forward to Thursday night. GO DUKE!

Wow, until UVA proves they belong in March, I'd take Carolina again this year.

Roy's been to two final fours in the last three seasons. He knows what it takes. He has three titles (won with cheaters). Bennett's claim to fame is coaching in the worst upset in the history of the NCAAs. I hate unc, but there's no way I'm picking UVA to go further in March than unc.

[freshmanjs]

Their only road win against a ranked opponent, was vs. louisville in a revenge game which they got smacked by 20 pts at home. Every single one of their significant wins was at home otherwise.



I think they won another road game against a ranked opponent.

[Kfanarmy]

I miss the days when Duke came out of the locker room and tried it destroy teams in the first four minutes.

I think if one is honest, Roy William's has flipped the script a bit. It is his team that comes out fighting each half. Duke starts slowly in almost every half it seems. There's no energy on the bench firing the guys up. It is a bit too much like watching an NBA team. Maybe I'm just frustrated.

[freshmanjs]

I can understand why everyone is upset as it sucks to get swept. But I don’t understand the pessimism. You lost by five while down two starters on the road against a top five team. You’re about to get back a transcendant talent. Assuming you’ve used up all your bad luck, there is every reason to think you will both get revenge next week and make the Final Four. It’s hard to beat a team three times, period; when you’re adding a talent like Zion it’s an even bigger challenge.

I hate Duke and Coach K with all my soul, but man what a classy post-game conference. I almost wished I hadn’t watched it.

Unfortunately, the bad luck continues. Bolden will be out for awhile. Still won't be healthy for at least a few weeks.

[Dukehk]

I think our placement is pretty easy to figure with or without Zion. Without Zion, we are very unlikely to win the ACC Tournament. With Zion, we're the favorites.

Duke wins the ACC Tournament = Duke #1 East and probable overall #1, particularly if we beat UVA a 3rd time.
Duke loses the ACC Tournament final = #1 in MW. I think KY or TN will win the SEC Tournament to take the South.
Duke loses before the ACC Tournament final = TBD, but probable #2 seed with Gonzaga, KY, or TN. Keep in mind KY will get the same (if any) consideration that we do because of the Travis injury.

I don't gamble with money or pastry, but I'll predict against chalk matchups for the ACC. I think there's one big win left in Louisville, Syracuse, FSU, or VT yet.

Looks about right but with today's loss does it mean TN won't be getting a 1 seed? It also looks like msu is going to beat michigan so that puts them firmly out of the picture.

I wonder if the committee will do the smart thing and give the ACC a unprecedented three no. 1 seeds!

I just hope they take into account our injuries.

I also think unc and kentucky should be bracketed together no matter who ends up with the 1 seed. Hoping to avoid ky until at least the final four.

In fact, I have a dream that we somehow meet unc in the final four/title game. This time with a full strength line up. However, I seriously doubt they get there unless there are some major upsets in their bracket. They haven't beaten anyone of note outside of the nose dome.

[Hancock 4 Duke]

I'm the last to complain about calls and usually skip over posts that focus on them, but that was ridiculous. The repeated charging calls on RJ looked like such clear blocking fouls. The ref was basically saying if you lower your head to drive to the basket anyone can run into your path without worrying about being set. If those are properly called it changes the flow and energy of the game.

With that being said and despite the massive appreciation I have of RJ's amazing offensive skills and effort (tonight was a rare off night) I also have been really disappointed in his defensive efforts (or lack of) over several games now. I watch our games in semi-real time on DVR and pretty much every time we allow an easy uncontested layup or dunk I back up my DVR to see how we broke down so badly. It seems like 80% of the time the main culprit on the break down is RJ. Sometimes he just loses track of his man, sometimes he just stops following his man, and sometimes he never even bothers to pick up a man. On the latter type of possessions, including tonight before he got in foul trouble, he just stands around in the middle of the lane leaving his 4 teammates to chase 5 opponents. It would be more acceptable if he used these self-selected personal zone D possessions to backstop his teammates but most of the time he doesn't even try to defend drivers who get by the first man, he just gets out of their way And I'm sure it can't be true but his lack of effort and unconcerned expressions after being scored on look like his main focus is on getting back on offense where he can do his miracles. Whether they score is secondary.

tldr vers: RJ got screwed on the calls tonight, as most everyone will agree. AND RJ needs to show a LOT more effort on the defensive end, as few will agree.

If anyone even half heartedly tries to defend RJ’s defense, they’ll already be doing much more defending than RJ did against UNC. There are several plays that stick out in my mind; RJ’s refusal to run back to defend the fast break when he could’ve contested the layup, or at least tried, his jogging over to Nas Little when he shot (and made) a three that shifted the momentum towards UNC, his incessant lack of playing help defense (which is insanely important when you’re switching all screens; you can’t have Javin Delaurier guarding Coby White if there’s no help defense). It’s frustrating to see and honestly killed my mood throughout the game. How are we supposed to think that a player cares about the rivalry when they won’t even pretend to play defense?

[jipops]

I can understand why everyone is upset as it sucks to get swept. But I don’t understand the pessimism. You lost by five while down two starters on the road against a top five team. You’re about to get back a transcendant talent. Assuming you’ve used up all your bad luck, there is every reason to think you will both get revenge next week and make the Final Four. It’s hard to beat a team three times, period; when you’re adding a talent like Zion it’s an even bigger challenge.

I hate Duke and Coach K with all my soul, but man what a classy post-game conference. I almost wished I hadn’t watched it.

Well we just got swept by a team whose athletic program escaped a significant long running scandal that was a very ugly exploitation of its athletes. So that along with not being able to operate at full potential is hard to stomach.

Also, we’ve seen this movie before. Constant injury disruptions don’t normally bode well for post season hopes.

[Dukehk]

Damn, I am in a terrible mood, I can hardly function... we all think that after this game against the most cheating, dumbest, stupidest team in the history of sport we are out of the woods and Zion is back, only to have Marques injured in the first two minutes!

Again?!?! We just went through this.

I am in such a s*** mood... just sitting here refreshing the thread feeds over and over. I feel like drinking beer and eating ice cream until I pass out on the floor.

If anyone else is feeling this way, please know that you are completely justified.

Things happen for a reason. This team has been going through alot of adversity. I feel it will only make the players stronger and hungrier when we have our full deck.

Keep the faith and pray that the selection committee sees common sense to give us our rightful 1 seed once we dominate the ACC tourney!

[freshmanjs]

Things happen for a reason. This team has been going through alot of adversity. I feel it will only make the players stronger and hungrier when we have our full deck.



We're not going to have our full deck anytime soon.

[Edouble]

I can understand why everyone is upset as it sucks to get swept. But I don’t understand the pessimism. You lost by five while down two starters on the road against a top five team. You’re about to get back a transcendant talent. Assuming you’ve used up all your bad luck, there is every reason to think you will both get revenge next week and make the Final Four. It’s hard to beat a team three times, period; when you’re adding a talent like Zion it’s an even bigger challenge.

I hate Duke and Coach K with all my soul, but man what a classy post-game conference. I almost wished I hadn’t watched it.

Really? You couldn't have picked, say, human sex trafficking or lack of global food security?

[uh_no]

It says:

"It's been a heck of a conference season. We fought hard today. I am proud of my guys... Everyone's 0-0 now and we go forward... I think we'll get Zion back for Thursday."

-Coach K

Excellent! Then that guy in the zion vigil will stop posting forever :D

[Dukehky]

Looks about right but with today's loss does it mean TN won't be getting a 1 seed? It also looks like msu is going to beat michigan so that puts them firmly out of the picture.

I wonder if the committee will do the smart thing and give the ACC a unprecedented three no. 1 seeds!

I just hope they take into account our injuries.

I also think unc and kentucky should be bracketed together no matter who ends up with the 1 seed. Hoping to avoid ky until at least the final four.

In fact, I have a dream that we somehow meet unc in the final four/title game. This time with a full strength line up. However, I seriously doubt they get there unless there are some major upsets in their bracket. They haven't beaten anyone of note outside of the nose dome.

I agree with this... but dude, what's your deal? Did you like my posts and think you would get more sporks on reputation if other posters thought you were me?

Kidding.

Winner of next Friday's game, assuming it's between Duke and UNC, gets the 1 seed.

[ns7]

Really good defense again tonight. UNC scored 79 on 77 possessions. Offense was bad again. Not shooting well and not drawing fouls were the main culprits. K had a good game plan starting AOC but he couldn't hit any shots. Really need him or Jack to be a credible long range threat, especially without Zion. Lack of FTs was bad officiating so I'm less worried there.

I still think things look good assuming Zion is back next week.

[DUKIE V(A)]

Wow, until UVA proves they belong in March, I'd take Carolina again this year.

Roy's been to two final fours in the last three seasons. He knows what it takes. He has three titles (won with cheaters). Bennett's claim to fame is coaching in the worst upset in the history of the NCAAs. I hate unc, but there's no way I'm picking UVA to go further in March than unc.

Pie bet? I say UVA advances further than UNC in the NCAA tournament. UNC is very good, but UVA is better. The past few seasons are immaterial to what will happen this season IMO.

[Kedsy]

ADVANCED STATS

Possessions: 76.6 (not nearly as fast as last game; this should have been a good tempo for us)

OFFENSE

oRtg: 0.91 (our adjusted oRtg was 1.05, better than our 0.95 adjusted in the last UNC game, but that's about the only good thing you can say about our offense tonight)
eFG%: 39.7% (worst eFG of the season)
3pt%: 25.0% (another data point that our home/road disparity is really a small sample size mirage)
2pt%: 41.5% (worst of the season)
%threes: 43.8% (not a surprise against a team that inspires opponents' threes, but still way too high)
FT rate: 23.0% (meh)
OR%: 32.0% (not good, but at least little better than UNC's OR performance)
TO%: 15.7% (this wasn't so bad, actually)
a/to: 1.25:1
%assisted: 60.0%
fast break pts: 10 (14.3% of our points)


DEFENSE

dRtg: 1.03 (adjusted that's 0.88, can't complain about this)
eFG%: 48.6% (not good but not horrifying either)
3pt%: 38.7% (UNC averages 37.3%, so not much better than their average)
2pt%: 41.9% (strong)
%threes: 41.9% (too high if you're going to let them shoot as well as they did from three)
FT rate: 17.6% (very good)
DR%: 69.6% (this was acceptable; better than UNC did at DRs)
TO%: 13.0% (fourth poor TO performance in last five games)
a/to: 1.6:1
%assisted: 53.3%
fast break pts: 12 (15.2% of their points; not as bad as it seemed)
block%: 9.5%; 16.3% of 2-point shots (once again showing we're a really good shotblocking team, amazingly even without both Zion and Marques)
steal%: 6.5% (fourth pathetic steals performance in last five games)


Last time against UNC, we stifled their three-point shooting and gave up a lot of open layups. This time, they had their way from three but we bottled them up inside. Overall, our D was a little worse than it was last UNC game, but still pretty good (top 10) defense. Our offense was a little better than last time, but still terrible. In our six games without Zion, we were very Jekyll-and-Hyde-ish, with three 120+ adjusted performances and three 105- adjusted performances.

[Edouble]

Pie bet? I say UVA advances further than UNC in the NCAA tournament. UNC is very good, but UVA is better. The past few seasons are immaterial to what will happen this season IMO.

I guess I said "I'd take" but it was hypothetical. I would never bet on unc to do anything good. I hate them too much and I hope you will understand.

Until UVA shows me something in March, I can't advance them too far when I fill out my bracket. I think TB doesn't ever get fired up enough or something, but that's a topic for another day, I suppose. Just remarkable to see the juxtaposition between UVA's regular season dominance and their inability to win NCAA Tournament games.

[duke2x]

I wonder if the committee will do the smart thing and give the ACC a unprecedented three no. 1 seeds!

It's not warranted without chaos in both the ACC and SEC Tournaments. The SEC is strong enough this year to deserve a #1 seed for UK (similar injury issues) or TN (all very good losses + 2 wins over the top 6).

[uh_no]

I'm sure kedsy will be up on the full numbers soon, but

86 adjD...really a fantastic game. we absolutely shut them down for long stretches, including down the stretch when we got back into the game

103 adjO...the first half was pretty good...125 in the first half, 86 in the second. No doubt the guys were tired. No doubt having a big body would have helped. No doubt RJ not being in foul trouble would have allowed him to be more aggressive.


People complaining about 3 point percentage...we missed what, maybe 5 desperation heaves near the end? Yeah we sort of lost our mind in worrying about getting even an okay shot there...but we're sitting a bit closer to 30% without the flurry at the end. That wasn't the difference.

The biggest thing that pissed me off in this game was the 6 or so points they got early on run outs. It's like a broken record with UNC...they come out ready to run after rebounds and made baskets, and we're not ready for it. It's like spotting them a few points every game we play against them...and then we adjust. I'm sure it's not like K isn't warning them about it...but as frosh, it's hard to be ready for that when you haven't seen it yet, regardless of how much K harps on it in practice. One of the big negatives of inexperience against UNC.

Anyway, the offensive fouls were killers. It's rough, but that's what you get with roger ayers.

Rough end to the regular season. Losing Bolden hurts a lot. Get well quick...both big guys...and on to the ACC.


Edit: I see kedsy got his numbers up while I was writing this post!

[sagegrouse]

Is there anyone on the Board who now doubts the ability of Cam Reddish to play in the NBA? He made some incredible plays tonight.

[DUKIE V(A)]

I guess I said "I'd take" but it was hypothetical. I would never bet on unc to do anything good. I hate them too much and I hope you will understand.

Until UVA shows me something in March, I can't advance them too far when I fill out my bracket. I think TB doesn't ever get fired up enough or something, but that's a topic for another day, I suppose. Just remarkable to see the juxtaposition between UVA's regular season dominance and their inability to win NCAA Tournament games.

I understand, and I apologize for putting you in an awkward position. LOL.

What I like about Duke and UVA compared to UNC is that they are better defensively and better coached. Also, I like Jones, Barrett, Reddish, and Zion, and UVA’s guards plus Hunter and their freshman big on offense better than I like UNC’s group. I think UNC is vulnerable vs. any team that can limit their transition game and has an athletic big to cover Maye. When these two things happen or Johnson has a poor shooting night they are likely in trouble. White is certainly a talent, but I think he takes a lot of bad shots. If I am game planning for Carolina, I would focus on limiting Maye and Johnson and make White beat me. He may do it, but I would take my chances on him forcing ill-advised threes.

[freshmanjs]

Is there anyone on the Board who now doubts the ability of Cam Reddish to play in the NBA? He made some incredible plays tonight.

Don't doubt his NBA future, but I don't think Cam had a good offensive game tonight at all. Very inefficient and several drives where he was blocked or had a turnover.

[uh_no]

Is there anyone on the Board who now doubts the ability of Cam Reddish to play in the NBA? He made some incredible plays tonight.

he was what he largely always has been....a fantastic talent that's inconsistent. Some just choose to selectively ignore his good plays when he's in a downswing, and then don't see why his ability to execute at such a high level, even inconsistently, might show nba potential.

[ns7]

he was what he largely always has been...a fantastic talent that's inconsistent. Some just choose to selectively ignore his good plays when he's in a downswing, and then don't see why his ability to execute at such a high level, even inconsistently, might show nba potential.

He's young. The talent he flashes is real. He'll become more consistent with age. And he's already a plus defender.

[Kedsy]

Carolina is a very good team, but they are flawed defensively...

I agree that UNC has flaws, but they sure didn't look flawed defensively tonight. Their defense has dominated our offense in both games this season (albeit us playing without the nation's most efficient offensive player). And KenPom ranks them the 11th best D in the country.


I miss the days when Duke came out of the locker room and tried it destroy teams in the first four minutes.

I think if one is honest, Roy William's has flipped the script a bit. It is his team that comes out fighting each half. Duke starts slowly in almost every half it seems. There's no energy on the bench firing the guys up. It is a bit too much like watching an NBA team. Maybe I'm just frustrated.

Yeah, you might just be frustrated. I don't think Duke started slow in either half tonight. First four minutes of both halves the two teams played more or less even.

[DukieInBrasil]

this game was meaningless, we played without 2 of our starters. Our coach also steadfastly refused to call plays for the Freshmen to run. It's amazing we only lost by 9. Despite both Barrett and Reddish starting pretty well, the lack of discipline or plays called for them to run meant they couldn't sustain that over the course of the game. When (if) Zion comes back i am unmoved in my conviction that Duke can beat the Cheaters.

[ns7]

I agree that UNC has flaws, but they sure didn't look flawed defensively tonight. Their defense has dominated our offense in both games this season (albeit us playing without the nation's most efficient offensive player). And KenPom ranks them the 11th best D in the country.


We don't match up well with them. They give up a lot of 3s, don't really force turnovers, and are average at blocks.

We don't shoot well from 3 but have to rely on them without Zion, and we are smaller and turnover prone without Zion.

I would love to see UNC draw Mississippi State, Auburn, Marquette, or Wofford (rematch) in the tournament. They are prone to being upset because they give up so many 3s.

[BigZ]

The Natty is all that matters this season.

[weezie]

The Natty is all that matters this season.

Ain't that the truth. New season about to begin!

[sagegrouse]

Don't doubt his NBA future, but I don't think Cam had a good offensive game tonight at all. Very inefficient and several drives where he was blocked or had a turnover.

That, of course, wasn't my point. He made some amazing plays in the first half, that one almost never sees from players his age, even in high-level college hoops.

[Nhoman4]

Duke fought incredibly hard and one big Tar Hole run in the second half won them the game. Don’t forget how great Duke looked when we were at full strength. The Bolden injury will hurt, but this team is different with Zion as we all know. We just lost a tough road game to the 3rd ranked team in the country. We are good without Zion and great with him.
For the first time in my life, I will be cheering for UNC on Thursday. I want to play them with Zion in the lineup and watch them bow out in the semifinal. Then complete a 3 game sweep of Virginia the next day.
Go Duke.

[InSpades]

Cam + RJ = 16 of 50 from the field, 7 of 23 from 3, 8 turnovers. The offense needs to be more efficient if you want to win games like this (and make no mistake, those 2 are the entire offense).

The offense should be better than that but it is not and it doesn't seem like it's going to be... until Zion gets back.

Small silver lining... this sets us up to play Syracuse in the quarters. I'd rather play them than Louisville.

This is not a very good team w/out Zion... they have glimpses of playing well but it's very inconsistent. W/ Zion they are also a bit inconsistent but the inconsistency is between "best team in the country by far" and "still a top 10 team". Without Zion it's "maybe a top 10 team" vs. "maybe a NCAA tournament team". If you wondered how good Zion really is well... that's a clear indication.

Cam is frustrating. People have tried to point to this being a sign that Cam is a top 5 pick or whatever... 6/23, 3/12, 4 turnovers. Don't get me wrong... he's very talented. Flashes of complete brilliance but he's not a great college basketball player yet. He's not a top 20 ACC player. He still might go top 5 but it's based on potential and not production.

RJ tries to do too much and maybe he has to do that because the rest of the team is so limited offensively. Hard to fault him. He does play hard. I don't fault him for not closing out on Little on the step back 3. Maybe fault him a bit on Cam's turnover. He does a ton of things right though. 12 rebounds. He just can't do it himself. He's like Robin without his Batman.

I think we get back our #1 seed if we make it to the ACC final. 3 losses against UNC and I think we end up a 2. Obviously depends what other teams do.

Can't wait to see Zion back in action. Hope he's 100%. This is his team and I hope he reminds everyone that he's the best player we've seen in college basketball in recent memory.

[jipops]

I think we need this right now.

https://twitter.com/barstoolbdevils/status/1104559449560231936?s=21

(Disclosure: I’m no fan at all of barstool)

[Dukehky]

Cam + RJ = 16 of 50 from the field, 7 of 23 from 3, 8 turnovers. The offense needs to be more efficient if you want to win games like this (and make no mistake, those 2 are the entire offense).

The offense should be better than that but it is not and it doesn't seem like it's going to be... until Zion gets back.

Small silver lining... this sets us up to play Syracuse in the quarters. I'd rather play them than Louisville.

This is not a very good team w/out Zion... they have glimpses of playing well but it's very inconsistent. W/ Zion they are also a bit inconsistent but the inconsistency is between "best team in the country by far" and "still a top 10 team". Without Zion it's "maybe a top 10 team" vs. "maybe a NCAA tournament team". If you wondered how good Zion really is well... that's a clear indication.

Cam is frustrating. People have tried to point to this being a sign that Cam is a top 5 pick or whatever... 6/23, 3/12, 4 turnovers. Don't get me wrong... he's very talented. Flashes of complete brilliance but he's not a great college basketball player yet. He's not a top 20 ACC player. He still might go top 5 but it's based on potential and not production.

RJ tries to do too much and maybe he has to do that because the rest of the team is so limited offensively. Hard to fault him. He does play hard. I don't fault him for not closing out on Little on the step back 3. Maybe fault him a bit on Cam's turnover. He does a ton of things right though. 12 rebounds. He just can't do it himself. He's like Robin without his Batman.

I think we get back our #1 seed if we make it to the ACC final. 3 losses against UNC and I think we end up a 2. Obviously depends what other teams do.

Can't wait to see Zion back in action. Hope he's 100%. This is his team and I hope he reminds everyone that he's the best player we've seen in college basketball in recent memory.



I mean, nobody else but Javin and Tre scored a single point... I don't know what you want Cam and RJ to do.

[CoachJ10]

I mean, nobody else but Javin and Tre scored a single point... I don't know what you want Cam and RJ to do.

I hate to be that guy (because this board has plenty of guys who pounce on these opportunities), but jack did score as well.

Your broader point obviously still stands though.

[InSpades]

I mean, nobody else but Javin and Tre scored a single point... I don't know what you want Cam and RJ to do.

I want them to be efficient scorers. If they were reasonably efficient we win this game.

Do you think they had good offensive games? I recognize it's difficult but... this was not a great (or even good) performance from them.

[richardjackson199]

1. 25% 3s

2. 34% FGs

3. No Z

4. No MB

5. PoS B1G reject ref, @#$% tv teddy

Agreed. I was wrong on the referees. I was wrong, wrong, wrong.

Another serious injury vs UNCheat. smh That's 4 UNCheat games in a row with a significant injury to a starter.

And I was wrong on predicting a Duke win or staying within 4 points. The injury hurt us there. We missed Bolden inside big-time.

Hopefully things will get better from here.

[ncexnyc]

I hate to be that guy (because this board has plenty of guys who pounce on these opportunities), but jack did score as well.

Your broader point obviously still stands though.
No need to worry about being that guy. That honor would go to the person who points out Baker didn't get any playing time.:cool:

[sagegrouse]

Cam + RJ = 16 of 50 from the field, 7 of 23 from 3, 8 turnovers. The offense needs to be more efficient if you want to win games like this (and make no mistake, those 2 are the entire offense).

The offense should be better than that but it is not and it doesn't seem like it's going to be... until Zion gets back.

Small silver lining... this sets us up to play Syracuse in the quarters. I'd rather play them than Louisville.

This is not a very good team w/out Zion... they have glimpses of playing well but it's very inconsistent. W/ Zion they are also a bit inconsistent but the inconsistency is between "best team in the country by far" and "still a top 10 team". Without Zion it's "maybe a top 10 team" vs. "maybe a NCAA tournament team". If you wondered how good Zion really is well... that's a clear indication.

Cam is frustrating. People have tried to point to this being a sign that Cam is a top 5 pick or whatever... 6/23, 3/12, 4 turnovers. Don't get me wrong... he's very talented. Flashes of complete brilliance but he's not a great college basketball player yet. He's not a top 20 ACC player. He still might go top 5 but it's based on potential and not production.

RJ tries to do too much and maybe he has to do that because the rest of the team is so limited offensively. Hard to fault him. He does play hard. I don't fault him for not closing out on Little on the step back 3. Maybe fault him a bit on Cam's turnover. He does a ton of things right though. 12 rebounds. He just can't do it himself. He's like Robin without his Batman.

I think we get back our #1 seed if we make it to the ACC final. 3 losses against UNC and I think we end up a 2. Obviously depends what other teams do.

Can't wait to see Zion back in action. Hope he's 100%. This is his team and I hope he reminds everyone that he's the best player we've seen in college basketball in recent memory.

Cam had 17 points on 11 shots in the first half. In the second half, especially with Barrett less effective due to fouls, he didn't produce much. I also expect UNC made some adjustments at halftime to stop Duke's main offensive weapon.

Barrett was somewhat effective on the inside in the first half at 4-7 from two and somewhat effective from outside in the second half at 4-8 from three. But RJ sure couldn't play his normal game with the foul situation.

[Neals384]

as long as we’re Terping, did anyone else notice the lane violation by Woods at about the 6 minute mark, first half? He lost control under the hoop and took forever getting himself organized before finally making a pass out to a 3-point shooter. Swish, of course, but he was in the lane 5 seconds..I certainly don’t expect the refs to start a 3 second count every time someone enters the lane, but when a player loses the handle like Woods did, it should be an obvious and easy call.

[Dukehky]

Cam had 17 points on 11 shots in the first half. In the second half, especially with Barrett less effective due to fouls, he didn't produce much. I also expect UNC made some adjustments at halftime to stop Duke's main offensive weapon.

Barrett was somewhat effective on the inside in the first half at 4-7 from two and somewhat effective from outside in the second half at 4-8 from three. But RJ sure couldn't play his normal game with the foul situation.

I think we can all agree that it was a total crap-storm offensively due to many factors. Not the least of which was our secondary "shooters" not being able to, you know, shoot.


The big guy covers up lots of mistakes on both ends, hopefully he's there to do so, and vociferously, within the next week.

[subzero02]

If anyone even half heartedly tries to defend RJ’s defense, they’ll already be doing much more defending than RJ did against UNC. There are several plays that stick out in my mind; RJ’s refusal to run back to defend the fast break when he could’ve contested the layup, or at least tried, his jogging over to Nas Little when he shot (and made) a three that shifted the momentum towards UNC, his incessant lack of playing help defense (which is insanely important when you’re switching all screens; you can’t have Javin Delaurier guarding Coby White if there’s no help defense). It’s frustrating to see and honestly killed my mood throughout the game. How are we supposed to think that a player cares about the rivalry when they won’t even pretend to play defense?

I will watch a replay of the game and focus on RJ's defensive effort. Did you all notice a change in his defensive effort after he picked up his 2nd foul in the first half or was it mediocre even before then?

[Hancock 4 Duke]

I will watch a replay of the game and focus on RJ's defensive effort. Did you all notice a change in his defensive effort after he picked up his 2nd foul in the first half or was it mediocre even before then?
Out of all of the things I paid attention to, that wasn’t one of them, so I couldn’t tell you whether it was before or after he picked up his second/third foul. However, the things I noticed shouldn’t have been affected by how many fouls he had. Effort can be given regardless of foul trouble. But you’re a much better person than I for being willing to rewatch that game; I’m interested to hear about what you see.

[richardjackson199]

Out of all of the things I paid attention to, that wasn’t one of them, so I couldn’t tell you whether it was before or after he picked up his second/third foul. However, the things I noticed shouldn’t have been affected by how many fouls he had. Effort can be given regardless of foul trouble. But you’re a much better person than I for being willing to rewatch that game; I’m interested to hear about what you see.

I noticed during the game that RJ had to play tentative defense, especially in the 2nd half due to his foul trouble. He just let guys drive by him and get a layup rather than challenge them and maybe pick up an early 4th foul.

RJ's foul trouble also resulted in tentative offensive play. He settled and pulled up for fade-aways and 3's rather than his usual aggressive self, trying to avoid another charge call.

I knew we were basically done at halftime even though we were ahead with Zion out, Bolden out, and RJ with 3 fouls.

[jv001]

I can understand why everyone is upset as it sucks to get swept. But I don’t understand the pessimism. You lost by five while down two starters on the road against a top five team. You’re about to get back a transcendant talent. Assuming you’ve used up all your bad luck, there is every reason to think you will both get revenge next week and make the Final Four. It’s hard to beat a team three times, period; when you’re adding a talent like Zion it’s an even bigger challenge.

I hate Duke and Coach K with all my soul, but man what a classy post-game conference. I almost wished I hadn’t watched it.

You hate Duke and Coach K. Well you don't know how bad I hate the Cheat Scumbags from down the way a bit. I don't hate the players but as for lying Roy and the fraud program, that's another story. GoDuke!

[bigperm13]

I think we need this right now.

https://twitter.com/barstoolbdevils/status/1104559449560231936?s=21

(Disclosure: I’m no fan at all of barstool)

We all need a lot more than that after that 82-50 retribution beatdown Duke just took. Oh wait...

Also glad to see Swofford is perfectly fine with having an official (Teletubby Ted Valentine) that was let go by an entire conference do all the big games in the ACC. Makes total sense. As does the cheering of Zion's injury. If that had been the Crazies it probably would have broken sports media. The new (and old really) "Carolina Way" - 2+2=spaghetti. Complete delusion and utter nonsense.

[Devilwin]

I believe we can still win it all. Get Z back into the flow, and tweak a few things, they can win the ACCT and the NCAAT.
Some concerns for me are:

Cam needs to be stronger with the ball. He rarely finishes his drives, and is somewhat turnover prone. He is however, our biggest threat from three point land. And, is a good defensive player.

RJ needs to be more selective with his shots. He tends to try to invent his shots on the fly, even if there's nothing there for him. He is also not a great outside threat. He seemed distracted last night, little fire in his game. The bad charge calls against him probably didn't help there.

As for the Bolden situation, that was really a shame as the kid had been playing well of late. I suggest using Javin, Vrank, and Jack as a "three headed monster", that gives us 15 fouls at that position.

Also, a confident Jack White would help, and AOC needs to make some threes for us.
If all this comes together , it can still be done.

[Saratoga2]

I mean, nobody else but Javin and Tre scored a single point... I don't know what you want Cam and RJ to do.

Jack scored 4

[rsvman]

I believe we can still win it all. Get Z back into the flow, and tweak a few things, they can win the ACCT and the NCAAT.
Some concerns for me are:

Cam needs to be stronger with the ball. He rarely finishes his drives, and is somewhat turnover prone. He is however, our biggest threat from three point land. And, is a good defensive player.

RJ needs to be more selective with his shots. He tends to try to invent his shots on the fly, even if there's nothing there for him. He is also not a great outside threat. He seemed distracted last night, little fire in his game. The bad charge calls against him probably didn't help there.

As for the Bolden situation, that was really a shame as the kid had been playing well of late. I suggest using Javin, Vrank, and Jack as a "three headed monster", that gives us 15 fouls at that position.

Also, a confident Jack White would help, and AOC needs to make some threes for us.
If all this comes together , it can still be done.

Lot of ifs in that.

I agree that Cam is way too loose with the ball. Last night RJ lacked fire even before the foul trouble, certainly on the defensive end.

Jack is still in his own head and was very hesitant to shoot. AOC's shot looked as bad as I've ever seen it.

I agree that it can be done, but help is going to have to come from somewhere. If Bolden is unavailable that hurts our chances.

Still, there are zero teams out there that could lose their best player, lose their starting center, and have their leading scorer in foul trouble, and still be in a position to possibly win with a few minutes left, on the road against a top five team.

[accfanfrom1970]

I hate Duke and Coach K with all my soul, but man what a classy post-game conference. I almost wished I hadn’t watched it.

I will never understand the hate when unc cheated for so long, is a disgraced program, so worthy of hate. And yet folks hate Duke and root for unc. If Duke cheated the way unc did I couldn’t root for them. I just don’t understand.

[Saratoga2]

Lot of ifs in that.

I agree that Cam is way too loose with the ball. Last night RJ lacked fire even before the foul trouble, certainly on the defensive end.

Jack is still in his own head and was very hesitant to shoot. AOC's shot looked as bad as I've ever seen it.

I agree that it can be done, but help is going to have to come from somewhere. If Bolden is unavailable that hurts our chances.

Still, there are zero teams out there that could lose their best player, lose their starting center, and have their leading scorer in foul trouble, and still be in a position to possibly win with a few minutes left, on the road against a top five team.

Coach seems to think that the three headed offensive monster of Cam, Zion and RJ pretty much are all we need with a basket here or there from the other guys. While they are clearly our best guys, I don't like that mindset, in that the other guys need to feel that can and shoulc contribute. Tre can get to the basket at times and we saw the best Javin last night. Jack While can and should do more, especially with other teams focusing their defense on the big three. Then there is AOC, who didn't contribute. He made one nice drive and dish that resulted in points. He had Luke Maye on him and should be able to get by him off the dribble but gave the ball up. He seemed to lake the aggression last ight and he]is shot was off..

My take is that coach K definitely needs encourage guys not named Zion, Cam and RJ to participate offensively. Without their support, opponents can make it a 5 on 3 game.

[ClosetHurleyFan]

But he's also had the benefit of a really good home schedule. Roy's a good coach but not as good as Bennett. GoDuke!

Examine the final fours and national championships since Roy got to UNC and tell me how Bennett is a better coach. Sorry the data just doesn’t bear out your assertion. For that matter compare Roy and K since Roy go to UNC

[YmoBeThere]

I will never understand the hate when unc cheated for so long, is a disgraced program, so worthy of hate. And yet folks hate Duke and root for unc. If Duke cheated the way unc did I couldn’t root for them. I just don’t understand.

Even LSU fans had signs about UNC's cheating yesterday.

[dukelifer]

Examine the final fours and national championships since Roy got to UNC and tell me how Bennett is a better coach. Sorry the data just doesn’t bear out your assertion. For that matter compare Roy and K since Roy go to UNC

I think the discussion was about this year. Roy is among the best coaches of all time-if you just consider on court performance. Bennett is not close to that group and will not be until he wins at least two NCs.

[HereBeforeCoachK]

Even LSU fans had signs about UNC's cheating yesterday.

That's my first smile about yesterday's games.....

[Troublemaker]

I think we get back our #1 seed if we make it to the ACC final.

Duke is still a 1-seed as of right now. It's more that we need to play well with Zion back in order to maintain the 1-seed.

Below is a snapshot of Bracket Matrix before yesterday's games were played (in case he updates the site this morning).

Since Tennessee lost, you would need to believe that *both* Kentucky and UNC jump up to the 1-line in order for Duke to be displaced down to the 2-line. And I frankly don't believe that is the case. We own a head-to-head win against UK (an epic blowout win), and UNC's entire case for a 1-seed rests on having beaten Duke twice without Zion playing; UNC couldn't even beat UVA when playing in Chapel Hill.


https://i.imgur.com/UFJA5g0.png

[kshepinthehouse]

I want them to be efficient scorers. If they were reasonably efficient we win this game.

Do you think they had good offensive games? I recognize it's difficult but... this was not a great (or even good) performance from them.

It’s not like opposing teams don’t know ourbotjer guys can’t score. Reddish and Barrett are basically having to play 2 on 5 on offense out there. They don’t have a choice. Their shots during this stretch without Zion are going to be tougher than normal but they still have to take them. They may seem like bad shots but who else do you want to shoot the ball?

[Duke79UNLV77]

ADVANCED STATS

Possessions: 76.6 (not nearly as fast as last game; this should have been a good tempo for us)

OFFENSE

oRtg: 0.91 (our adjusted oRtg was 1.05, better than our 0.95 adjusted in the last UNC game, but that's about the only good thing you can say about our offense tonight)
eFG%: 39.7% (worst eFG of the season)
3pt%: 25.0% (another data point that our home/road disparity is really a small sample size mirage)
2pt%: 41.5% (worst of the season)
%threes: 43.8% (not a surprise against a team that inspires opponents' threes, but still way too high)
FT rate: 23.0% (meh)
OR%: 32.0% (not good, but at least little better than UNC's OR performance)
TO%: 15.7% (this wasn't so bad, actually)
a/to: 1.25:1
%assisted: 60.0%
fast break pts: 10 (14.3% of our points)


DEFENSE

dRtg: 1.03 (adjusted that's 0.88, can't complain about this)
eFG%: 48.6% (not good but not horrifying either)
3pt%: 38.7% (UNC averages 37.3%, so not much better than their average)
2pt%: 41.9% (strong)
%threes: 41.9% (too high if you're going to let them shoot as well as they did from three)
FT rate: 17.6% (very good)
DR%: 69.6% (this was acceptable; better than UNC did at DRs)
TO%: 13.0% (fourth poor TO performance in last five games)
a/to: 1.6:1
%assisted: 53.3%
fast break pts: 12 (15.2% of their points; not as bad as it seemed)
block%: 9.5%; 16.3% of 2-point shots (once again showing we're a really good shotblocking team, amazingly even without both Zion and Marques)
steal%: 6.5% (fourth pathetic steals performance in last five games)


Last time against UNC, we stifled their three-point shooting and gave up a lot of open layups. This time, they had their way from three but we bottled them up inside. Overall, our D was a little worse than it was last UNC game, but still pretty good (top 10) defense. Our offense was a little better than last time, but still terrible. In our six games without Zion, we were very Jekyll-and-Hyde-ish, with three 120+ adjusted performances and three 105- adjusted performances.

The drop off in steals without Zion (and steals leading to 360 dunks) is huge. We become dominant when we force lots of live ball turnovers, particularly since we are not a good shooting team if our defense doesn’t create offense. Looking forward to seeing Jones force his man to turn blindly into Monstar again. Please!

[HereBeforeCoachK]

The drop off in steals without Zion (and steals leading to 360 dunks) is huge. We become dominant when we force lots of live ball turnovers, particularly since we are not a good shooting team if our defense doesn’t create offense. Looking forward to seeing Jones force his man to turn blindly into Monstar again. Please!

Indeed, the combo of Tre/Zion on defense is so important for this team.....as is his shot blocking......not to mention how the floor tilts towards him on O and opens it up for the others.

[Owen Meany]

Examine the final fours and national championships since Roy got to UNC and tell me how Bennett is a better coach. Sorry the data just doesn’t bear out your assertion. For that matter compare Roy and K since Roy go to UNC

ClosetHurleyFan,
Haven't seen you post in a while. As a matter of fact, this is the only post listed in your recent activity. Very thoughtful for you to drop by after Duke loses a big game, without the best player in the nation and facing the possible loss of another starter - and suggest that Williams is better than Coach K. It is appreciated.

FWIW, the time frame you indicated encompasses much of the time UNC was deeply involved in the "greatest academic scandal in NCAA history", so its kind of an apples to oranges comparison. But most folks here care about those kind of things and are happy with Coach K's performance on and off the court.

[devildeac]

Examine the final fours and national championships since Roy got to UNC and tell me how Bennett is a better coach. Sorry the data just doesn’t bear out your assertion. For that matter compare Roy and K since Roy go to UNC

Last time I checked, UVa wasn't investigated for academic fraud (involving athletes on multiple teams and multiple "university" departments) and their chancellor didn't admit to academic fraud to SACS from ~1988 to 2011. Duke was also not involved in any NCAA investigations involving widespread violations of academic integrity (involving athletes) either during this period. Not punished doesn't mean not guilty. Roy knew. Dean's Myth knew, too.

[Bob Green]

The team needs to find its outside shot. Players not named RJ and Cam combined to go 1-9 on 3 PT FGs.

I was very impressed by the team's intestinal fortitude fighting back from a 15 point deficit. There is no quit in this team.

Losing Marques a couple minutes into the game made a thin rotation thinner. Tre Jones and Cam Reddish looked gimpy at times. We need to get healthy, fast!

[weezie]

It’s not like opposing teams don’t know ourbotjer guys can’t score. Reddish and Barrett are basically having to play 2 on 5 on offense out there. They don’t have a choice. Their shots during this stretch without Zion are going to be tougher than normal but they still have to take them. They may seem like bad shots but who else do you want to shoot the ball?


Preach. And it's not carping on the refs to recognize that the holding and push offs and what, 4-5 moving picks that the holes were allowed were gifts from their pale blue heaven.

[PackMan97]

Dagnabit Duke! I count on you guys for one thing and one thing only....you are disappoint!

:mad:

[dukelifer]

Dagnabit Duke! I count on you guys for one thing and one thing only...you are disappoint!

:mad:

Feeling is mutual

[uh_no]

Factual Question: Does anyone think that a Duke fan ever goes over to the Carolina site and posts comments? Rarely if ever is my answer

i'm not sure what the insinuation is, but we have plenty of posters from other teams post here, and the conversation is often fantastic. It's one of the things that makes this board so much better than almost any sports board on the net.


Your post aside, this calling people trolls and closet UNC fans or whatever has to stop. If you disagree with an argument, make a counter argument. If you think the argument is being made in bad faith, we all know where the flame button is. If it continues, we all know where the whistle is as well.

If the experience you want is people shouting "TROLL" at each-other for pages on end, there are plenty of other boards where that is de-rigeur.

[CDu]

Factual Question: Does anyone think that a Duke fan ever goes over to the Carolina site and posts comments? Rarely if ever is my answer

I think it is quite common, actually. Several DBR posters have admitted as such in the past.

[wavedukefan70s]

Factual Question: Does anyone think that a Duke fan ever goes over to the Carolina site and posts comments? Rarely if ever is my answer

No but I assume they are just like gamecock fans.theres a bazillion of them.with a core that you can have a decent debate over sports.then there are the senseless . After that it's the I got this shirt because it's cool crowd.

[bluedev_92]

Duke is still a 1-seed as of right now. It's more that we need to play well with Zion back in order to maintain the 1-seed.

Below is a snapshot of Bracket Matrix before yesterday's games were played (in case he updates the site this morning).

Since Tennessee lost, you would need to believe that *both* Kentucky and UNC jump up to the 1-line in order for Duke to be displaced down to the 2-line. And I frankly don't believe that is the case. We own a head-to-head win against UK (an epic blowout win), and UNC's entire case for a 1-seed rests on having beaten Duke twice without Zion playing; UNC couldn't even beat UVA when playing in Chapel Hill.


https://i.imgur.com/UFJA5g0.png

+1 Well said.

[weezie]

I think it is quite common, actually. Several DBR posters have admitted as such in the past.


Issshhhhh, I tried but I get distracted by the span between their eyes on other boards. Either too close or way, way too far apart. It's very distracting. :cool:

[Bob Green]

I think it is quite common, actually. Several DBR posters have admitted as such in the past.

I was banned from Inside Carolina many years ago. All I did was quote a post, highlight all the misspelled words and comment: Inside Carolina where one can experience arrogance and ignorance simultaneously.

[UrinalCake]

Not upset about the team’s performance at all. We were short handed already and then lost Bolden and effectively lost Barrett after three flops, I mean charging calls. It was similar to what happened to Cam against Wake, although in that game the calls were correct. Make no mistake, Kenny Williams was coached to flop any time Barrett drove and the refs bought it. It’s like they decided that since they blew the first call, they had to blow the next two in order to be consistent. Anyways, we went from having only two scorers to having one and yet still hung in for most of the game.

There was a stretch in the first half where it feels like we played ten minutes of game time without a stoppage. I’m sure it wasn’t actually that long, but it was a long time and our players were completely gassed. UNC had four guys waiting to check in for an eternity. I think that really took a lot out of our players and it caught up with us in the second half, especially Cam.

The most positive takeaway for me was Javin’s play. He was solid defensively without fouling for extended minutes even while UNC’s game plan was to attack him on switches. And he was able to get involved on the offensive end too. If he can continue to play at this level after Zion comes back, our post play looks really strong. Jack also had an amazing game defensively, playing center for us while Javin was out. K explained it really well in the postgame: when we have our full roster then the stars can play primary roles and the role players can play complementary roles. But right now we’re asking the role players to do primary things, and they’re not comfortable doing that. Still, we stayed basically even with UNC on the boards and that is no easy feat even before losing your two biggest players.

Tre was more aggressive offensively, I think he knows he has to step up his scoring. Had some great scores but also got caught driving into one or multiple defenders on more than one occasion and was fortunate to not get caught traveling or turning it over. His offensive game needs to develop but it’s pretty late in the season to do that. Again, when the team is all back them he can pick and choose his spots more so that will help.

Zion returning will obviously be huge, but I worry a bit about everyone expecting him to be our savior. K has kind of set him up to play that role in how he describes Zion coming back. Other guys will need to continue to play at a high level, rather than expecting Superman to swoop in and fix all of our problems.

[rsvman]

To be fair, one of the reasons Roy is a good coach is that he knew ahead of time that Barrett often pushes off with the right arm while driving left. And by often, I mean pretty much every single time. It usually doesn't get called.

So Roy told Williams to flop every time he felt Barrett's hand on his body, and it worked. Simple as that.



Here's the real problem, though: other coaches are also onto this now, and I fully expect other coaches, even of teams we meet in the NCAA tournament that we may have never played, to tell their defenders to do the same. We.cannot.afford.to.have.RJ.in.foul.trouble.

Coach K is going to have to figure out a way to avoid this particular hurdle.

[kshepinthehouse]

To be fair, one of the reasons Roy is a good coach is that he knew ahead of time that Barrett often pushes off with the right arm while driving left. And by often, I mean pretty much every single time. It usually doesn't get called.

So Roy told Williams to flop every time he felt Barrett's hand on his body, and it worked. Simple as that.



Here's the real problem, though: other coaches are also onto this now, and I fully expect other coaches, even of teams we meet in the NCAA tournament that we may have never played, to tell their defenders to do the same. We.cannot.afford.to.have.RJ.in.foul.trouble.

Coach K is going to have to figure out a way to avoid this particular hurdle.

He needs to cross over and go to the right in this situation 😀

[uh_no]

To be fair, one of the reasons Roy is a good coach is that he knew ahead of time that Barrett often pushes off with the right arm while driving left. And by often, I mean pretty much every single time. It usually doesn't get called.

So Roy told Williams to flop every time he felt Barrett's hand on his body, and it worked. Simple as that.



Here's the real problem, though: other coaches are also onto this now, and I fully expect other coaches, even of teams we meet in the NCAA tournament that we may have never played, to tell their defenders to do the same. We.cannot.afford.to.have.RJ.in.foul.trouble.

Coach K is going to have to figure out a way to avoid this particular hurdle.

tbf, roger ayers and tv ted won't coach every game. the former is notorious (IMO) for charge calls, and the latter wants to make whatever call that gets him on the telly.

[kshepinthehouse]

Not upset about the team’s performance at all. We were short handed already and then lost Bolden and effectively lost Barrett after three flops, I mean charging calls. It was similar to what happened to Cam against Wake, although in that game the calls were correct. Make no mistake, Kenny Williams was coached to flop any time Barrett drove and the refs bought it. It’s like they decided that since they blew the first call, they had to blow the next two in order to be consistent. Anyways, we went from having only two scorers to having one and yet still hung in for most of the game.

There was a stretch in the first half where it feels like we played ten minutes of game time without a stoppage. I’m sure it wasn’t actually that long, but it was a long time and our players were completely gassed. UNC had four guys waiting to check in for an eternity. I think that really took a lot out of our players and it caught up with us in the second half, especially Cam.

The most positive takeaway for me was Javin’s play. He was solid defensively without fouling for extended minutes even while UNC’s game plan was to attack him on switches. And he was able to get involved on the offensive end too. If he can continue to play at this level after Zion comes back, our post play looks really strong. Jack also had an amazing game defensively, playing center for us while Javin was out. K explained it really well in the postgame: when we have our full roster then the stars can play primary roles and the role players can play complementary roles. But right now we’re asking the role players to do primary things, and they’re not comfortable doing that. Still, we stayed basically even with UNC on the boards and that is no easy feat even before losing your two biggest players.

Tre was more aggressive offensively, I think he knows he has to step up his scoring. Had some great scores but also got caught driving into one or multiple defenders on more than one occasion and was fortunate to not get caught traveling or turning it over. His offensive game needs to develop but it’s pretty late in the season to do that. Again, when the team is all back them he can pick and choose his spots more so that will help.

Zion returning will obviously be huge, but I worry a bit about everyone expecting him to be our savior. K has kind of set him up to play that role in how he describes Zion coming back. Other guys will need to continue to play at a high level, rather than expecting Superman to swoop in and fix all of our problems.

Minor quibble-you said Tre was fortunate not to get caught for traveling. Actually, he got caught putting his head down and driving into the lane and was called for traveling on two separate occasions.

[SavDukeGrad]

So Roy told Williams to flop every time he felt Barrett's hand on his body, and it worked.

But according to Jay Bilas, Kenny Williams is the best defensive player college basketball has ever seen! And there should be an investigation if he doesn’t make the All ACC defensive team! :rolleyes:

I don’t know who was more disgusting last night - Kenny Williams or Jay Bilas!

[uh_no]

But according to Jay Bilas, Kenny Williams is the best defensive player college basketball has ever seen! And there should be an investigation if he doesn’t make the All ACC defensive team! :rolleyes:

I don’t know who was more disgusting last night - Kenny Williams or Jay Bilas!

easy. Jay bilas. at least one of them was helping their team.

[Wander]

So Roy told Williams to flop every time he felt Barrett's hand on his body, and it worked. Simple.

Honestly, I don’t think Williams flopped every time - which is why the terrible calls were so strange. On I think two of the “charges”, Williams did not fall down (which of course is often what tricks a ref into making a bad call), and the offensive foul was called anyway. Worst collective calls against one player ever.

[Furniture]

Maybe I am in the minority but I admire the way Roy plays his team. I like the way he plays his bench a lot and I think it’s smart the way he plays his team quick not giving the opposing team time to get set. I am not saying I prefer him over K just that if I were a coach I’d probably coach like that.

[Edouble]

Maybe I am in the minority but I admire the way Roy plays his team. I like the way he plays his bench a lot and I think it’s smart the way he plays his team quick not giving the opposing team time to get set. I am not saying I prefer him over K just that if I were a coach I’d probably coach like that.

Minutes distribution from last night's game, when Roy essentially went with a 5 1/2 man rotation:

Garrison Brooks 29
Luke Maye 33
Coby White 36
Cameron Johnson 28
Kenny Williams 39
Seventh Woods 4
Platek, Andrew 4
Brandon Robinson 9
Nassir Little 18

I hate the way Roy coaches. It holds players back by limiting them to what they are allowed to do at their position in his (sacred Dean's) system.

[Furniture]

Minutes distribution from last night's game, when Roy essentially went with a 5 1/2 man rotation:

Garrison Brooks 29
Luke Maye 33
Coby White 36
Cameron Johnson 28
Kenny Williams 39
Seventh Woods 4
Platek, Andrew 4
Brandon Robinson 9
Nassir Little 18

I hate the way Roy coaches. It holds players back by limiting them to what they are allowed to do at their position in his (sacred Dean's) system.

Yes that is a negative side of his...

[Duke76]

i'm not sure what the insinuation is, but we have plenty of posters from other teams post here, and the conversation is often fantastic. It's one of the things that makes this board so much better than almost any sports board on the net.


Your post aside, this calling people trolls and closet UNC fans or whatever has to stop. If you disagree with an argument, make a counter argument. If you think the argument is being made in bad faith, we all know where the flame button is. If it continues, we all know where the whistle is as well.

If the experience you want is people shouting "TROLL" at each-other for pages on end, there are plenty of other boards where that is de-rigeur.

Plenty of reasonable conversations with other teams on this board, I am not disputing that at all. It was specific to UNC fans. Next time you see one let me know. I can't remember the last time I saw a UNC one that was not of the flaming sort...Wheat used to come up with some occasionally but haven't seen him in awhile. It's a waste of our time to have to see and read them. That's what I wish would stop....their inane posts.

[Nugget]

Maybe I am in the minority but I admire the way Roy plays his team. I like the way he plays his bench a lot and I think it’s smart the way he plays his team quick not giving the opposing team time to get set. I am not saying I prefer him over K just that if I were a coach I’d probably coach like that.

I'm also impressed by how quickly Roy's teams consistently push the ball up the floor, even regularly getting advantage plays off of made baskets, which most teams very rarely do. It's a discipline for the Heels not to sag or sulk for even a second when they give up a bucket and for the PG to immediately be in position to get it and go. You are right to give Roy credit for it and the 2-3 extra easy buckets per game they get from in can often make the difference

[NSDukeFan]

A bit off topic, but is this the best place for me to comment on how much I like “Dean’s Myth Center “ as a saying? I like how that has caught on.

[BandAlum83]

Even LSU fans had signs about UNC's cheating yesterday.

Is this a joke? Because really, it doesn’t seem that anyone outside the triangle cares.

[Edouble]

A bit off topic, but is this the best place for me to comment on how much I like “Dean’s Myth Center “ as a saying? I like how that has caught on.

There is no inappropriate place or time to mention that.

[left_hook_lacey]

To be fair, one of the reasons Roy is a good coach is that he knew ahead of time that Barrett often pushes off with the right arm while driving left. And by often, I mean pretty much every single time. It usually doesn't get called.

So Roy told Williams to flop every time he felt Barrett's hand on his body, and it worked. Simple as that.



Here's the real problem, though: other coaches are also onto this now, and I fully expect other coaches, even of teams we meet in the NCAA tournament that we may have never played, to tell their defenders to do the same. We.cannot.afford.to.have.RJ.in.foul.trouble.

Coach K is going to have to figure out a way to avoid this particular hurdle.

I had this same conversation with some co-workers. I had mentioned how I had seen/heard other teams fans and coaches losing their minds during/after games against Duke when RJ had gotten away with some pretty obvious push offs. I said, "only a matter of time before other teams start game planning for this and start flopping.". Should've know it would be UNC that started what I'm afraid will become a trend.

[Acymetric]

I had this same conversation with some co-workers. I had mentioned how I had seen/heard other teams fans and coaches losing their minds during/after games against Duke when RJ had gotten away with some pretty obvious push offs. I said, "only a matter of time before other teams start game planning for this and start flopping.". Should've know it would be UNC that started what I'm afraid will become a trend.

I've thought they called that way too tight ever since it became a point of emphasis, and not just against Duke.

[Teacherjrob]

Not upset about the team’s performance at all. We were short handed already and then lost Bolden and effectively lost Barrett after three flops, I mean charging calls. It was similar to what happened to Cam against Wake, although in that game the calls were correct. Make no mistake, Kenny Williams was coached to flop any time Barrett drove and the refs bought it. It’s like they decided that since they blew the first call, they had to blow the next two in order to be consistent. Anyways, we went from having only two scorers to having one and yet still hung in for most of the game.

There was a stretch in the first half where it feels like we played ten minutes of game time without a stoppage. I’m sure it wasn’t actually that long, but it was a long time and our players were completely gassed. UNC had four guys waiting to check in for an eternity. I think that really took a lot out of our players and it caught up with us in the second half, especially Cam.

The most positive takeaway for me was Javin’s play. He was solid defensively without fouling for extended minutes even while UNC’s game plan was to attack him on switches. And he was able to get involved on the offensive end too. If he can continue to play at this level after Zion comes back, our post play looks really strong. Jack also had an amazing game defensively, playing center for us while Javin was out. K explained it really well in the postgame: when we have our full roster then the stars can play primary roles and the role players can play complementary roles. But right now we’re asking the role players to do primary things, and they’re not comfortable doing that. Still, we stayed basically even with UNC on the boards and that is no easy feat even before losing your two biggest players.

Tre was more aggressive offensively, I think he knows he has to step up his scoring. Had some great scores but also got caught driving into one or multiple defenders on more than one occasion and was fortunate to not get caught traveling or turning it over. His offensive game needs to develop but it’s pretty late in the season to do that. Again, when the team is all back them he can pick and choose his spots more so that will help.

Zion returning will obviously be huge, but I worry a bit about everyone expecting him to be our savior. K has kind of set him up to play that role in how he describes Zion coming back. Other guys will need to continue to play at a high level, rather than expecting Superman to swoop in and fix all of our problems.

Well said, UC! I may have posted once years ago, but here are my two cents after 49 years of pulling for Duke! I really don't care much about the regular season, including how we fare against Carolina. Of course, my heart wants to win every game, but my head says that ain't going to happen, especially when it comes to injuries. What do I really care about? How do I define the ultimate success of our team? Quite simply, it's the Big Dance and how we do. Regular season and the ACC tournament aside, it's how I remember a Duke team under Coach K. Selfish? Narrow-minded? Guilty as charged, but I have been spoiled by our success in the Big Dance, just as our friends from Chapel Hill have been, and so my interest in the rest of the season is whether we can win the whole damn thing and not have to listen to the chirping from the Hill about how "we" beat you twice. As for my hope, I'd like to see Zion work his way back into "full mode" by Saturday, but if we should lose before then, so be it, just as long as we can get some good practice in before the first round of the NCAA tournament.

[HereBeforeCoachK]

A bit off topic, but is this the best place for me to comment on how much I like “Dean’s Myth Center “ as a saying? I like how that has caught on.

Did you make that up? It's brilliant, whoever did it. Wish I had done it......

And I still smile whenever I think that in all of recorded history, Mark Alarie will ALWAYS have the first hoop in that building.

[Neals384]

To be fair, one of the reasons Roy is a good coach is that he knew ahead of time that Barrett often pushes off with the right arm while driving left. And by often, I mean pretty much every single time. It usually doesn't get called.

So Roy told Williams to flop every time he felt Barrett's hand on his body, and it worked. Simple as that.



Here's the real problem, though: other coaches are also onto this now, and I fully expect other coaches, even of teams we meet in the NCAA tournament that we may have never played, to tell their defenders to do the same. We.cannot.afford.to.have.RJ.in.foul.trouble.

Coach K is going to have to figure out a way to avoid this particular hurdle.

wait. Ole Roy teaches his guys to flop? Isn’t that cheating? Never mind.

[Billy Dat]

The beauty and curse of the rivalry, just when we think we have an all time type of team, it gets hampered by injuries and UNC manages to keep riding this wave they've been on to stake a claim as a real deal national title contender. Every time you think you are gaining the upper hand....

All we can hope is that we get Z back and get another shot at them next week. I know there are many who'd rather not see them again this year, but the business feels so unfinished. Even if Zion isn't back 100%, I'd still like a shot.

[Skydog]

I will watch a replay of the game and focus on RJ's defensive effort. Did you all notice a change in his defensive effort after he picked up his 2nd foul in the first half or was it mediocre even before then?

He did it before and after the foul trouble. I had no problem with him being careful during the 'after" part although he could have used his smarts and still play a bit more actively on both ends despite the foul trouble.

But this has been going on for a few games now. Its just doesn't get noticed on this board for some reason.

I believe that every time we allow an uncontested layup or a completely wide open 3 there has to be a defensive breakdown. So when that happens I stop my DVR, back up to the start of the play and try to find the source of the break down. If any of you are willing to test this yourselves over the last few games you will see that RJ is most often the main culprit. Recently he's gotten worse though - he just refuses to provide weak side help, literally just standing there are even stepping out of the way. I don't know if he's trying to avoid injury or fouls, but it's hard to watch. The "getting worse" part may be due to Zion's injury. In the past Zion was controlling the paint so RJ's unwillingness to challenge drivers wasn't evident.

[ncexnyc]

I'm glad I logged on this afternoon to see the latest about RJ. First, he was a ball hog and played out of control. Then he took too many bad shots. Of course once Zion went down and RJ showed us just how good he can be we've now discovered another fault in RJ's game. He doesn't play hard enough on the defensive end.

Maybe once RJ moves onto the pros folks around here will finally appreciate just how good a player this kid actually is.

[Durham Blue Devil]

I fully appreciate RJ as being one of the best freshman ever to play for Duke. He is a winner, and despite his outside shooting shortcomings, he has been a star this year. He has handled being overshadowed by Zion with class and is an ultimate team player.

That said, skydog is absolutely correct - when you go back and see where the defensive breakdowns occur, quite often they are attributable to RJ, and this is a more frequent occurrence the past few games. His effort on 50/50 balls also isn’t there and has seemingly decreased as of late. I too wonder if there is any concern over injury.

I can fully appreciate him, will miss him when the season is over, yet still offer objective criticism when warranted. I do think there is some validity to this.

[dukelifer]

I fully appreciate RJ as being one of the best freshman ever to play for Duke. He is a winner, and despite his outside shooting shortcomings, he has been a star this year. He has handled being overshadowed by Zion with class and is an ultimate team player.

That said, skydog is absolutely correct - when you go back and see where the defensive breakdowns occur, quite often they are attributable to RJ, and this is a more frequent occurrence the past few games. His effort on 50/50 balls also isn’t there and has seemingly decreased as of late. I too wonder if there is any concern over injury.

I can fully appreciate him, will miss him when the season is over, yet still offer objective criticism when warranted. I do think there is some validity to this.

Defense takes energy. RJ is giving a ton on the offensive end. Maybe he cannot do both at the same time yet. He is still a very young player. Without RJ- this team would be in huge trouble offensively.

[Dr. Rosenrosen]

I'm glad I logged on this afternoon to see the latest about RJ. First, he was a ball hog and played out of control. Then he took too many bad shots. Of course once Zion went down and RJ showed us just how good he can be we've now discovered another fault in RJ's game. He doesn't play hard enough on the defensive end.

Maybe once RJ moves onto the pros folks around here will finally appreciate just how good a player this kid actually is.

I think you’re the greatest, but my dad says you don’t work hard enough on defense...


https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ArHNrCvwq4c&amp;feature=youtu.be#menu

[weezie]

I'm glad I logged on this afternoon to see the latest about RJ. First, he was a ball hog and played out of control. Then he took too many bad shots. Of course once Zion went down and RJ showed us just how good he can be we've now discovered another fault in RJ's game. He doesn't play hard enough on the defensive end.

Maybe once RJ moves onto the pros folks around here will finally appreciate just how good a player this kid actually is.


Singing my song ncexnyc...

[ns7]

That said, skydog is absolutely correct - when you go back and see where the defensive breakdowns occur, quite often they are attributable to RJ, and this is a more frequent occurrence the past few games. His effort on 50/50 balls also isn’t there and has seemingly decreased as of late. I too wonder if there is any concern over injury.


This may be true, but defense isn't the team's issue. It's actually been quite good, almost elite, without Zion, so it's hard to conclude that RJ is seriously hurting the team here.

[uh_no]

This may be true, but defense isn't the team's issue. It's actually been quite good, almost elite, without Zion, so it's hard to conclude that RJ is seriously hurting the team here.

the defense HAS been markedly worse since zion went out, I don't think there's a quesiton about that, but it's still largley been very good. I'm guessing abberations like the VT game would be less prominent if we had a whole year to design a defense around not having zion, vs covering the gap while he's out injured.

Could RJ yet be the weakest link in the defense? It's possible...but more because we have a lot of really good defense players than because he is some exceptional liability.

[jv001]

Examine the final fours and national championships since Roy got to UNC and tell me how Bennett is a better coach. Sorry the data just doesn’t bear out your assertion. For that matter compare Roy and K since Roy go to UNC


Bennett and Coach K have won with players that were academically eligible. Roy had to use fake classes to keep his team eligible. There's the difference. The tarholes are the biggest liars since OJ Simpson. GoDuke!

[CoachJ10]

Defense takes energy. RJ is giving a ton on the offensive end. Maybe he cannot do both at the same time yet. He is still a very young player. Without RJ- this team would be in huge trouble offensively.

This. RJ is asked to do an incredible amount for this team. And he is doing it playing almost 40 mins a game, every game.

The pursuit of perfection on this board often times morphs into unrealistic expectations for 18-21 yr old kids.

[stingy]

I’m not going to knock RJ but The part about the 50/50 balls reminded me that aim pretty sure he was our guy involved in that one under our basket in the first half in which Platek dove on the floor and got a timeout. RJ only bent down to try and grab the ball, and I was saying to myself that he needed to dive. Pretty sure Jack or Javin would have been on the floor there. Maybe it comes with experience in these games?

[jv001]

I’m not going to knock RJ but The part about the 50/50 balls reminded me that aim pretty sure he was our guy involved in that one under our basket in the first half in which Platek dove on the floor and got a timeout. RJ only bent down to try and grab the ball, and I was saying to myself that he needed to dive. Pretty sure Jack or Javin would have been on the floor there. Maybe it comes with experience in these games?

It could be RJ has been told not to dive on the floor with Zion out. If we lost both, we'd be in biggggggg trouble. GoDuke!

[UrinalCake]

I’ve noticed RJ slacking on D as well, going all the way back to the Gonzaga game. But I willl say that the times I see him standing around and watching a layup are usually under the basket. When he’s out on the perimeter he does play hard D. So maybe he just feels like there’s no point in trying to contest underneath when his man or someone else’s man is already beat and he’s unlikely to do anything besides pick up a foul. Plus even though he doesn’t look like he’s working hard to box out, he does actually get a lot of rebounds so I’m willing to cut him some slack there.

I have to agree with others too, in an ideal world the guy could go 100% on both ends of the floor all the time, but when he’s playing 40 minutes a game and is our only offensive option, something has got to give.

[ns7]

the defense HAS been markedly worse since zion went out, I don't think there's a quesiton about that, but it's still largley been very good. I'm guessing abberations like the VT game would be less prominent if we had a whole year to design a defense around not having zion, vs covering the gap while he's out injured.


I did some quick math because I'm on my phone so it isn't the best analysis. The defense has been at 90.1 the last six games vs a season average of 88.1. The offense has been at a 110.5 the last six games vs a season average of 119.6.

I would say the defense is essentially in line with the season average but the offense is worse. Plus the game we are discussing was a better defensive effort than the season average.

[uh_no]

I did some quick math because I'm on my phone so it isn't the best analysis. The defense has been at 90.1 the last six games vs a season average of 88.1. The offense has been at a 110.5 the last six games vs a season average of 119.6.

I would say the defense is essentially in line with the season average but the offense is worse. Plus the game we are discussing was a better defensive effort than the season average.

90 is worse than 88. which would prove my point....which was only that the defense has been worse....nothing more nothing less....


That said, i'm not sure it's true anyway. on 2-20, before the carolina game...we were at 88.1. Effectively exactly where we are now. That That said, i'm confident we don't give up what we did to VT with zion on the floor.

That that that said, our turnover% is almost assuredly worse....which means even though we're compensating for the lack of turnovers in other areas on defense, which is great, we're not helping in generating the offense you point out is a problem.

[gep]

I’ve noticed RJ slacking on D as well, going all the way back to the Gonzaga game. But I willl say that the times I see him standing around and watching a layup are usually under the basket. When he’s out on the perimeter he does play hard D. So maybe he just feels like there’s no point in trying to contest underneath when his man or someone else’s man is already beat and he’s unlikely to do anything besides pick up a foul. Plus even though he doesn’t look like he’s working hard to box out, he does actually get a lot of rebounds so I’m willing to cut him some slack there.

I have to agree with others too, in an ideal world the guy could go 100% on both ends of the floor all the time, but when he’s playing 40 minutes a game and is our only offensive option, something has got to give.

I always thought that in many cases, if an opposing player already beat his man and is assured a layup, it doesn't quite make sense to try to challenge. At worst, commits a foul. At best, the opposing player misses. Otherwise, ends up on the floor, or way out of position. I recall seeing many defensive players just "let it go", which many times, makes sense to me.

And I think I've heard of many NBA players that can't go 100% on both ends of the court all the time. And RJ is playing almost the entire game every time... so maybe cut him some slack here too :confused:

[UrinalCake]

^ the other end of the spectrum would be when the defender leaves his man to try to block the shot, which he has very little chance of doing, and in the process leaves his own man wide open for a clear path to the offensive board and put back. This happened numerous times in the second half. No reason to go and challenge that shot, especially when the primary defender is already in good position. Just stay on your man and clean up the board. What RJ does - just standing there and watching - would literally be better than running over to the ball and forgetting your man.

[Wander]

Could RJ yet be the weakest link in the defense? It's possible...but more because we have a lot of really good defense players than because he is some exceptional liability.

IMO we have two elite defenders in Tre and Zion. When both are playing, our team defense is elite, and when one is playing, our team defense is still pretty good. If we ever had to play without both of them, I think the defensive liabilities of the other players would be exposed and our team defense would be bad-to-average. We'd look similar to the 2014 team and be similarly in danger of an early upset.

Of course, most teams probably would not be good at defense if you took away their two best defenders, so I'm not sure that the above statements mean anything horrible.

[uh_no]

IMO we have two elite defenders in Tre and Zion. When both are playing, our team defense is elite, and when one is playing, our team defense is still pretty good. If we ever had to play without both of them, I think the defensive liabilities of the other players would be exposed and our team defense would be bad-to-average. We'd look similar to the 2014 team and be similarly in danger of an early upset.

Of course, most teams probably would not be good at defense if you took away their two best defenders, so I'm not sure that the above statements mean anything horrible.

the 2014 team was the #1 offense in the country. This team wouldn't be.

[robed deity]

the 2014 team was the #1 offense in the country. This team wouldn't be.

That team was also the single worst defensive team I can remember under K. They just struggled to get stops against everyone. And yes, all the more frustrating because they could score at will.

[uh_no]

That team was also the single worst defensive team I can remember under K. They just struggled to get stops against everyone. And yes, all the more frustrating because they could score at will.

i had nightmares of opponents taking shots and rodney hood just staring at them as people ran around him to grab boards. I didn't, and still haven't, watched any of Duke's games from the tournament that year.

[ns7]

90 is worse than 88. which would prove my point...which was only that the defense has been worse...nothing more nothing less...


That said, i'm not sure it's true anyway. on 2-20, before the carolina game...we were at 88.1. Effectively exactly where we are now. That That said, i'm confident we don't give up what we did to VT with zion on the floor.

That that that said, our turnover% is almost assuredly worse...which means even though we're compensating for the lack of turnovers in other areas on defense, which is great, we're not helping in generating the offense you point out is a problem.

C'mon, you said markedly worse, and 90 over a six game span is not a statistically significant difference compared to a season average of 88. Like you said it hardly moved the overall average.

I agree that a lack of turnovers is hurting the offense.

[robed deity]

i had nightmares of opponents taking shots and rodney hood just staring at them as people ran around him to grab boards. I didn't, and still haven't, watched any of Duke's games from the tournament that year.

You mean the NCAA? Because there was 1, and it was very frustrating. As I remember, they played ok in the ACC, but simply couldn't get a stop against Virginia.