ACC POY and NPOY Discussion

[wgl1228]

I’ve read every top 10 list I could find across the web and in both the conference and NCAA, it seems to be down to Zion then RJ. Ultimately voters will have to decide if they should penalize Zion for the injury or are his numbers so good it doesn’t matter. I think in both cases Zion will win but boy if RJ puts on a show tonight and Duke wins, he will really have a case.

[vick]

I’ve read every top 10 list I could find across the web and in both the conference and NCAA, it seems to be down to Zion then RJ. Ultimately voters will have to decide if they should penalize Zion for the injury or are his numbers so good it doesn’t matter. I think in both cases Zion will win but boy if RJ puts on a show tonight and Duke wins, he will really have a case.

Assuming he's back and productive for the ACC and NCAA tournaments, I think NPOY for Zion is very likely.

ACC POY is a trickier case. My understanding is that voters aren't required to focus primarily on conference games, but in practice heavily weight them. Missing effectively 5.5-6.5 games (depending on tonight) is a lot of the conference season. That said, there's a couple of points will work in his favor. First, his pre-injury performance in ACC games was way beyond normal POY standards. Second, I think there are three players (Barrett, Hunter, and Johnson) who would carve up the voters who are reluctant to vote for someone who missed so much time. So my money would be on Zion for that one too.

[Troublemaker]

ACC POY:

If Duke wins tonight without Zion, it's RJ.

If Duke wins tonight with Zion, it's Zion.

(I don't want to consider other possibilities at this point :-)


NPOY:

Unless Coach K is just really, really wrong about Zion being back for the ACCT, it's Zion.

[johnb]

ACC POY:

If Duke wins tonight without Zion, it's RJ.

If Duke wins tonight with Zion, it's Zion.

(I don't want to consider other possibilities at this point :-)


NPOY:

Unless Coach K is just really, really wrong about Zion being back for the ACCT, it's Zion.

I agree, including the assertion that it makes sense that RJ could legitimately be ACC POY while Zion remains the NPOY.

[W&LHoo]

Does the NPOY voting happen after the NCAAT?

[uh_no]

Does the NPOY voting happen after the NCAAT?

no...or at least not as of 2011, when several writers expressed regret for not having voted for kemba.

[HereBeforeCoachK]

Assuming he's back and productive for the ACC and NCAA tournaments, I think NPOY for Zion is very likely.

ACC POY is a trickier case. My understanding is that voters aren't required to focus primarily on conference games, but in practice heavily weight them. Missing effectively 5.5-6.5 games (depending on tonight) is a lot of the conference season.

This is what drives me crazy. It didn't used to be that way...a player was judged by his entire body of work...a 40 minute game against good or great non conference team was considered more important - or just as important - as games against weak conference teams. The way it was, the ACC player of the year = the best player on an ACC team...now in the minds of some it's the best player in ACC games.

I hear those nimrods on 99.9 the fan spout this nonsense. It reminds me of many years ago when I did radio and print journalism work involving high schools. The conference coach of the year always went to the coach of the team the won the conference, and the player of the year went to the leading scorer, or rush, depending on the sport, for the team who won the conference.

ACC POY should be the best player on an ACC team, and there should be no constriction - or restriction - of this to ACC games.

[vick]

This is what drives me crazy. It didn't used to be that way...a player was judged by his entire body of work...a 40 minute game against good or great non conference team was considered more important - or just as important - as games against weak conference teams. The way it was, the ACC player of the year = the best player on an ACC team...now in the minds of some it's the best player in ACC games.

I hear those nimrods on 99.9 the fan spout this nonsense. It reminds me of many years ago when I did radio and print journalism work involving high schools. The conference coach of the year always went to the coach of the team the won the conference, and the player of the year went to the leading scorer, or rush, depending on the sport, for the team who won the conference.

ACC POY should be the best player on an ACC team, and there should be no constriction - or restriction - of this to ACC games.

I can see both sides, but if the ACC POY isn't meant to be weighted toward the ACC regular season, it's weird to me to do the voting before the ACC tournament. The reality is with the 18 game conference schedule (soon to be 20) most teams play few meaningful non-conference games anyway.

[gofurman]

I can see both sides, but if the ACC POY isn't meant to be weighted toward the ACC regular season, it's weird to me to do the voting before the ACC tournament. The reality is with the 18 game conference schedule (soon to be 20) most teams play few meaningful non-conference games anyway.

No way Maye gets it. Right?

[devildeac]

No way Maye gets it. Right?

If he has another ~30/~15 night tonight and the lucky/cheating bastards win and (assuming) they tie UVa for the regular season crown, I think he's going to garner a lot of votes. :mad:

[Dukehky]

I don't think you can miss 1/3 of the ACC games and win an award... I'd go RJ. don't think there's any real doubt it's between Zion and rj even with the horrible UNC local media voters going for Luke Maye.

[arnie]

No way Maye gets it. Right?

Not so sure- if he has huge game tonight that might push the UNCheat centric vote in his direction.

[CDu]

If he has another ~30/~15 night tonight and the lucky/cheating bastards win and (assuming) they tie UVa for the regular season crown, I think he's going to garner a lot of votes. :mad:

If they win and UVa loses (meaning UNC takes the regular season outright), there is a good chance Maye will get a lot of votes.

[HereBeforeCoachK]

No way Maye gets it. Right?

I don't know....the profoundly ignorant of ACC history crack heads at 99.9 were gushing about Luke and Cam and the beauty that are seniors yesterday afternoon. I needed an airline barf bag......

[vick]

If they win and UVa loses (meaning UNC takes the regular season outright), there is a good chance Maye will get a lot of votes.

Is Maye even the best player on UNC this year? Admittedly my non-Duke watching has been light this year due to work responsibilities, but Cam Johnson has a much better statistical profile (even more so in ACC play). I also feel like he’s getting more chatter than Maye, though that is subjective.

[jv001]

Is Maye even the best player on UNC this year? Admittedly my non-Duke watching has been light this year due to work responsibilities, but Cam Johnson has a much better statistical profile (even more so in ACC play). I also feel like he’s getting more chatter than Maye, though that is subjective.

This is why I'm rooting for Virginia. GoDuke!

[OZZIE4DUKE]

Zion will win NPOY. Zion and RJ wish share ACC POY. So it is written, so it shall be.....

GO TO HELL carolina! GO TO HELL!
GO TO HELL carolina! GO TO HELL!
GO TO HELL carolina! GO TO HELL!
GO TO HELL carolina! GO TO HELL!
GO TO HELL carolina! GO TO HELL!
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GO TO HELL carolina! GO TO HELL!
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GO TO HELL carolina! GO TO HELL!
GO TO HELL carolina! GO TO HELL!
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GO TO HELL carolina! GO TO HELL!
GO TO HELL carolina! GO TO HELL!
GO TO HELL carolina! GO TO HELL!
GO TO HELL carolina! GO TO HELL!
GO TO HELL carolina! GO TO HELL!
GO TO HELL carolina! GO TO HELL!
http://www.crazietalk.net/ourhouse/images/smilies/devil9f.gifhttp://www.crazietalk.net/ourhouse/images/smilies/devil9f.gif http://www.crazietalk.net/ourhouse/images/smilies/devil9f.gif http://www.crazietalk.net/ourhouse/images/smilies/devil9f.gif

[brevity]

No way Maye gets it. Right?

I feel certain there are voters who decided Luke Maye would win the award for THIS season at the end of LAST season. So, for them, the position for the past 12 months is "Give me a reason NOT to vote for Luke Maye."

Some considerations:

1. If the lazy default is to vote for the best player on the best team, then you were looking at Duke, and now Virginia. Carolina has not been the best team. But maybe tying for the best record (or having it outright on the last day) will be enough.

2. One of the Duke freshmen has this, right? Zion or RJ? Well, maybe. I think the limited ACC play (and inability to return before the voting period) hurts Zion. RJ looks like a solid choice, looking at the whole season or in conference play, but Zion casts a large shadow.

3. So let's say you want to single out a Virginia player. Which one: Kyle Guy or DeAndre Hunter? Glancing at the season stats, neither has distinguished himself from the other.

4. As noted above, Maye might not be Carolina's best player. Johnson is the team's leading scorer for the whole season, and White is the team's leading scorer in conference play. Maye is third for both.

5. Until recently, this was an award that usually went to juniors and seniors. Maye's basic stats aren't too different from those of Tyler Zeller, who won this award as a senior in 2012 (and wasn't the leading scorer on his team either).

All that said, I don't think the Luke Maye voting contingent is big enough to win. Big enough to finish ahead of the Virginia players (and Battle, Bowman, and Reed), and probably Zion, but I think RJ Barrett wins this.

[Wander]

Zion should and will win the NPOY award.

I actually like the idea that only ACC games are taken into consideration for the ACC awards... it keeps the conference awards from just being a copy-paste subset of the national awards. I'm not sure what will happen there. I wouldn't be shocked if Luke Maye wins it if voters take different stances on the Zion injury and then Zion and RJ split the Duke votes.

[duke4ever19]

If I had to guess at what the results would be, I think RJ will win the ACC POY and, like others have said, provided Zion comes back for the ACC Tournament and plays like he can, then I think he wins the national POY award.

[wgl1228]

Minor but Bleacher Report chose Zion as NPOY and RJ as Freshman of the Year (so not to repeat themselves).

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2823968-brs-2018-19-college-basketball-awards

[CDu]

We should find out today or so whether or not Duke got snubbed for the ACC PoY.

[wgl1228]

Zion is also Yahoo/NBC Sports NPOY. Zion and RJ both first team All-Americans.

https://sports.yahoo.com/postseason-awards-2018-19-american-121546146.html

[fuse]

Zion ACC POY and ROY.
RJ first team.
Tre second in DPOY voting.
Cam Honorable Mention.

http://theacc.com/news/2019/3/10/acc-announces-2019-mens-basketball-award-winners.aspx

[FerryFor50]

Zion ACC POY and ROY.
RJ first team.
Tre second in DPOY voting.
Cam Honorable Mention.

http://theacc.com/news/2019/3/10/acc-announces-2019-mens-basketball-award-winners.aspx

No votes for K as coach of the year. Sigh.

ACC Coach of the Year
Tony Bennett, Virginia, 30
Buzz Williams, Virginia Tech, 12
Roy Williams, North Carolina, 11
Leonard Hamilton, Florida State, 10
Chris Mack, Louisville, 7

And Mfiondu Kabengele won 6th man of the year, but let's be honest - he should have been starting.

[Billy Dat]

All-ACC
First Team
Zion Williamson, Fr., Duke, 350*
RJ Barrett, Fr., Duke, 346
De’Andre Hunter, So., Virginia, 302
Cameron Johnson, Sr., North Carolina, 277
Kyle Guy, Jr., Virginia, 231

Second Team
Luke Maye, Sr., North Carolina, 221
Ky Bowman, Jr., Boston College, 188
Ty Jerome, Jr., Virginia, 177
Coby White, Fr., North Carolina, 171
Kerry Blackshear Jr., Jr., Virginia Tech, 170

Third Team
Jordan Nwora, So., Louisville, 135
Marcquise Reed, Sr., Clemson, 129
Tyus Battle, Jr., Syracuse, 128
Nickeil Alexander-Walker, So., Virginia Tech, 72
John Mooney, Jr., Notre Dame, 71

Honorable Mention
Mfiondu Kabengele, So., Florida State, 69
Cam Reddish, Fr., Duke, 37
Tre Jones, Fr., Duke, 18
Terance Mann, Sr., Florida State, 16
Elijah Thomas, Sr., Clemson, 10

ACC Player of the Year
Zion Williamson, Fr., Duke, 49
RJ Barrett, Fr., Duke, 16
De’Andre Hunter, So., Virginia, 4
Ky Bowman, Jr., Boston College, 1

ACC Rookie of the Year
Zion Williamson, Duke, 47
RJ Barrett, Duke, 21
Coby White, North Carolina, 2

ACC Coach of the Year
Tony Bennett, Virginia, 30
Buzz Williams, Virginia Tech, 12
Roy Williams, North Carolina, 11
Leonard Hamilton, Florida State, 10
Chris Mack, Louisville, 7

ACC Defensive Player of the Year
De’Andre Hunter, So., Virginia, 46
Tre Jones, Fr., Duke, 19
David Skara, Sr., Clemson, 3
Trent Forrest, Jr., Florida State, 2

ACC Most Improved Player
Jordan Nwora, So., Louisville, 30
John Mooney, Jr., Notre Dame, 27
Cameron Johnson, Sr., North Carolina, 5
Mfiondu Kabengele, So., Florida State, 4
Kerry Blackshear Jr., Jr., Virginia Tech, 2
Chris Lykes, So., Miami, 2

ACC Sixth Man of the Year
Mfiondu Kabengele, So., Florida State, 60
DJ Funderburk, So., NC State, 3
Jared Wilson-Frame, Jr., Pitt, 3
Nassir Little, Fr., North Carolina, 2
Braxton Key, Jr., Virginia, 2

ACC All-Defensive Team
De’Andre Hunter, So., Virginia, 60
Tre Jones, Fr., Duke, 56
Zion Williamson, Fr., Duke, 53
Elijah Thomas, Sr., Clemson, 31
James Banks III, Jr., Georgia Tech, 29

ACC All-Freshman Team
Zion Williamson, Duke, 70*
Coby White, North Carolina, 67
RJ Barrett, Duke, 66
Xavier Johnson, Pitt, 40
Tre Jones, Duke, 38

[Billy Dat]

Impressive for Z to not only win POY, ROY and 1st team, but also All Defense. BEAST!!!!!!!!!!

[fuse]

No votes for K as coach of the year. Sigh.

ACC Coach of the Year
Tony Bennett, Virginia, 30
Buzz Williams, Virginia Tech, 12
Roy Williams, North Carolina, 11
Leonard Hamilton, Florida State, 10
Chris Mack, Louisville, 7

And Mfiondu Kabengele won 6th man of the year, but let's be honest - he should have been starting.

I doubt we can all agree but for K to even get considered for COY probably starts with finishing first and maybe even undefeated.

Not a shot or knock on K, just acknowledging the bar is different.

[fuse]

Impressive for Z to not only win POY, ROY and 1st team, but also All Defense. BEAST!!!!!!!!!!

Unanimous also.
The head scratcher are the people who didn’t vote for RJ all first team. He set the ACC freshman scoring record.

[FerryFor50]

I doubt we can all agree but for K to even get considered for COY probably starts with finishing first and maybe even undefeated.

Not a shot or knock on K, just acknowledging the bar is different.

I think it's ridiculous that the bar is that high for him, yet Roy gets 11 votes.

[devildeac]

No votes for K as coach of the year. Sigh.

ACC Coach of the Year
Tony Bennett, Virginia, 30
Buzz Williams, Virginia Tech, 12
Roy Williams, North Carolina, 11
Leonard Hamilton, Florida State, 10
Chris Mack, Louisville, 7

And Mfiondu Kabengele won 6th man of the year, but let's be honest - he should have been starting.

Kinda surprised buzz didn't get 3rd team all-acc as much time as he spends on the court.

:mad:

[vick]

Zion ACC POY and ROY.
RJ first team.
Tre second in DPOY voting.
Cam Honorable Mention.

http://theacc.com/news/2019/3/10/acc-announces-2019-mens-basketball-award-winners.aspx

Pretty sensible voting this year. The top 4 (Williamson, Barrett, Hunter, Johnson) had clearly separated themselves and it shows up in the voting. You can always quibble--I probably would have voted Blackshear for the 5th spot on the first team, and Reed likely deserved second team--but there are no real head-scratchers that I see. Although, not sure how anyone voted against Kabengele for sixth man of the year, unless they assumed 23 MPG in conference play is a de facto starter regardless of whether he actually starts.

[JasonEvans]

ACC Player of the Year
Zion Williamson, Fr., Duke, 49
RJ Barrett, Fr., Duke, 16
De’Andre Hunter, So., Virginia, 4
Ky Bowman, Jr., Boston College, 1

I think it was really nice of the ACC to give Ky Bowman's mother a vote for POY, but I'm not sure awards voting is supposed to work that way.

[FerryFor50]

Kinda surprised buzz didn't get 3rd team all-acc as much time as he spends on the court.

:mad:

Well played.

[DarkstarWahoo]

I doubt we can all agree but for K to even get considered for COY probably starts with finishing first and maybe even undefeated.

Not a shot or knock on K, just acknowledging the bar is different.

I think the argument against him is that Duke fell off, to a degree, when Zion got hurt. It sounds insane when you write it out like that - what team wouldn't? - and I'm not saying I agree with it. But I think it's the argument.

Put another way: I think Duke's recruiting has gotten so good that the narrative is almost an either-or thing when evaluating the coaching job. Either Duke kept it up without Zion (possibly making K the COY winner and likely at least getting him on the podium) or they didn't (removing him from consideration). There's no neutral "He did a pretty good job without Zion and therefore deserves some votes" argument.

Also - and this may also not be fair - my view is that it would take a truly insane injury stack for the coach of the preseason favorites to get serious consideration for coach of the year for finishing third. Although looking back at the preseason predictions (https://theacc.com/news/2018/10/25/mens-basketball-duke-tops-acc-basketball-preseason-media-poll.aspx), I'm surprised to see UVA as close to Duke as they were (Duke got 52 first-place votes to UVA's 47 and 1709 points to UVA's 1699). While media members should be held to a higher standard in remembering those nuances, the narrative got set after the Kentucky game and when Zion was running rampant that Duke was this unstoppable juggernaut. I think that crystallized and caused a lot of people to not even consider K when voting.

- Darkstar "Clemson got a first-place vote????" Wahoo

[DallasDevil]

Congrats to Zion, RJ, Tre, and Cam on their honors. I would be interested to hear which five freshmen 4 of the voters thought were better than RJ. Not sure how he is not a unanimous all rookie selection (and I'm also surprised Coby White was not a unanimous selection to that team).

[flyingdutchdevil]

I think it's ridiculous that the bar is that high for him, yet Roy gets 11 votes.

On optics alone, Roy did a great job this year. Compared to expectations, he did better than K. Yes - injuries devastated Duke. But that's basketball.

IMO - if you're ranked to finish the ACC first and you finish third, should you be considered COY? I don't think so at all.

[CameronBornAndBred]

ACC Most Improved Player
Jordan Nwora, So., Louisville, 30
John Mooney, Jr., Notre Dame, 27
Cameron Johnson, Sr., North Carolina, 5
Mfiondu Kabengele, So., Florida State, 4
Kerry Blackshear Jr., Jr., Virginia Tech, 2
Chris Lykes, So., Miami, 2


No love for Bolden, that is surprising.

[evrim]

So it seems like 4 people decided that they would not vote for RJ and Tre. RJ in the freshman team, and Tre in the defensive team. Shameful how petty some people are.

https://twitter.com/KelseyRiggsWCNC/status/1105167812895612930

[FerryFor50]

On optics alone, Roy did a great job this year. Compared to expectations, he did better than K. Yes - injuries devastated Duke. But that's basketball.

IMO - if you're ranked to finish the ACC first and you finish third, should you be considered COY? I don't think so at all.

I feel like being able to overcome injuries is important to how good of a coach you are.

But let's break down the coaches that got votes...

Tony Bennett, Virginia, 30
How many years does UVA have to win the regular season to start getting as overhyped as Duke does? Bennett has now won ACC COY four times since he took over in 2009-2010. UVA was predicted to win the ACC. They only lost twice - to Coach K, who got zero votes.

Buzz Williams, Virginia Tech, 12
VT was up and down all year long. They were predicted to finish 5th. And they finished... 5th. Probably got a Duke boost by beating Duke at VT without Zion. But whatever.

Roy Williams, North Carolina, 11
You said Roy did a great job this year, but I think he finished right where he was supposed to finish. Predicted 2nd. Finished 2nd. Zero adversity, unless you count Sterling Manley. Sure, Roy didn't have a top recruiting class, but he had a bunch of important senior players, including Cam Johnson, who they got from Pitt last year. And Coby White has been a great freshman for them.

Leonard Hamilton, Florida State, 10
Predicted 6th, finished 4th. A bit uneven at times this year, but should have gotten more votes than Buzz.

Chris Mack, Louisville, 7
I think Mack should have been higher, given the dumpster fire he was handed. Finished 6th, destroyed UNC at home and he managed to regroup his team after that soul crushing 23 point comeback by Duke.

This has happened in years that K won the regular season outright. Duke took the ACC regular season in 2010. Guess who won coach of the year? Gary Williams, who finished 2nd in the ACC.

[Matches]

The ACC awards have been a joke for quite some time. What's it been, 20 years since K won COY? I guess he's no Dave Leitao or Seth Greenberg? :confused:

[English]

I feel like being able to overcome injuries is important to how good of a coach you are.

But let's break down the coaches that got votes...

Tony Bennett, Virginia, 30
How many years does UVA have to win the regular season to start getting as overhyped as Duke does? Bennett has now won ACC COY four times since he took over in 2009-2010. UVA was predicted to win the ACC. They only lost twice - to Coach K, who got zero votes.

Buzz Williams, Virginia Tech, 12
VT was up and down all year long. They were predicted to finish 5th. And they finished... 5th. Probably got a Duke boost by beating Duke at VT without Zion. But whatever.

Roy Williams, North Carolina, 11
You said Roy did a great job this year, but I think he finished right where he was supposed to finish. Predicted 2nd. Finished 2nd. Zero adversity, unless you count Sterling Manley. Sure, Roy didn't have a top recruiting class, but he had a bunch of important senior players, including Cam Johnson, who they got from Pitt last year. And Coby White has been a great freshman for them.

Leonard Hamilton, Florida State, 10
Predicted 6th, finished 4th. A bit uneven at times this year, but should have gotten more votes than Buzz.

Chris Mack, Louisville, 7
I think Mack should have been higher, given the dumpster fire he was handed. Finished 6th, destroyed UNC at home and he managed to regroup his team after that soul crushing 23 point comeback by Duke.

This has happened in years that K won the regular season outright. Duke took the ACC regular season in 2010. Guess who won coach of the year? Gary Williams, who finished 2nd in the ACC.

I don't care for the VaTech program, but it's disingenuous to discount Duke's loses without Zion, but neglect to mention that VaTech was without its best player, Justin Robinson, for longer than Duke was without Zion. Just a thought.

[CrazyNotCrazie]

I have tried to block out most of the game from Saturday night but I believe Bilas needs to re-up his bar membership and start an investigation as Kenny Williams is not on the all-defensive team. I'm glad at least some people saw through his flopping...

[FerryFor50]

I don't care for the VaTech program, but it's disingenuous to discount Duke's loses without Zion, but neglect to mention that VaTech was without its best player, Justin Robinson, for longer than Duke was without Zion. Just a thought.

I don't think it's disingenuous.

- VT was at home
- Zion > Justin Robinson

Sure, they beat Duke. But I don't look at it as one of those earth shattering wins. VT was ranked in the top 20 when they did it.

[English]

I don't think it's disingenuous.

- VT was at home
- Zion > Justin Robinson

Sure, they beat Duke. But I don't look at it as one of those earth shattering wins. VT was ranked in the top 20 when they did it.

Sorry if it was unclear...I mean, for Buzz' COY resume, he led his squad through a significant portion of the season (even more significant portion of the conference season) without his best player. You didn't mention that in your dismissive write-up for Buzz.

[FerryFor50]

Sorry if it was unclear...I mean, for Buzz' COY resume, he led his squad through a significant portion of the season (even more significant portion of the conference season) without his best player. You didn't mention that in your dismissive write-up for Buzz.

True. But that would still jibe with why I think K should have gotten some votes. Duke was without Zion for 4 games and without Tre Jones for 2-3 games.

[Wahoo2000]

I think a lot of these CoY awards come down to this - Who's getting the absolute MOST out of his guys night in and night out, while also living up to or beating expectations? UVA almost *never* has a wtf result (well....... in the regular season anyway), or a player who really disappoints compared to expectations. I feel like that's a huuuuuuge part Bennett winning these things over and over.

[DarkstarWahoo]

Buzz Williams, Virginia Tech, 12
VT was up and down all year long. They were predicted to finish 5th. And they finished... 5th. Probably got a Duke boost by beating Duke at VT without Zion. But whatever.



That's true, but Buzz lost his best player (Justin Robinson) and his sixth man/leading rebounder (Chris Clarke) after the poll came out, along with his most highly rated freshman (Landers Nolley). I don't think VT would have been picked fifth if those three were ruled out before the voting occurred.

I think Buzz would have been the easiest choice, and maybe the correct one. I really think his weirdo routine with them affected the voting.

[Ian]

Nike should be DPOY, they are the only ones who can shutdown Zion.

[Owen Meany]

https://mobile.twitter.com/ArmstrongABC11/status/1105168102931791875?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5 Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1105168102931791875&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fs9e.github.io%2Fiframe%2Ftwi tter.min.html%231105168102931791875

[CDu]

I think a lot of these CoY awards come down to this - Who's getting the absolute MOST out of his guys night in and night out, while also living up to or beating expectations? UVA almost *never* has a wtf result (well... in the regular season anyway), or a player who really disappoints compared to expectations. I feel like that's a huuuuuuge part Bennett winning these things over and over.

UVa also is playing with less individual talent (in terms of NBA prospects) than some of the other teams in the conference. That plays a big part in it.

Yes, we lost Zion for 5-6 games and Jones for 2-3. But with the exception of the loss to Syracuse, we were playing with at least 4 McDonald's All-Americans every time out. That's more top-end talent than anyone else had. UNC had just one, for example. UVa had just one.

So, I think voters are looking at it that way. Duke, even without Zion, was in theory still a stacked squad. So voters aren't going to give any sympathy for missing one of 5 mcdonald's guys when you still have 4 others. And the voters don't generally take into account experience as a factor in the equation. Nor do they take into account that recruiting is part of coaching.

Basically, I can't get too worked up about something as nebulous as a coach of the year vote.

[dukelifer]

UVa also is playing with less individual talent (in terms of NBA prospects) than some of the other teams in the conference. That plays a big part in it.

Yes, we lost Zion for 5-6 games and Jones for 2-3. But with the exception of the loss to Syracuse, we were playing with at least 4 McDonald's All-Americans every time out. That's more top-end talent than anyone else had. UNC had just one, for example. UVa had just one.

So, I think voters are looking at it that way. Duke, even without Zion, was in theory still a stacked squad. So voters aren't going to give any sympathy for missing one of 5 mcdonald's guys when you still have 4 others. And the voters don't generally take into account experience as a factor in the equation. Nor do they take into account that recruiting is part of coaching.

Basically, I can't get too worked up about something as nebulous as a coach of the year vote.

Coach K likely lost some sort of bonus. He will suffer through I imagine.

[flyingdutchdevil]

I feel like being able to overcome injuries is important to how good of a coach you are.

But let's break down the coaches that got votes...

Tony Bennett, Virginia, 30
How many years does UVA have to win the regular season to start getting as overhyped as Duke does? Bennett has now won ACC COY four times since he took over in 2009-2010. UVA was predicted to win the ACC. They only lost twice - to Coach K, who got zero votes.

Buzz Williams, Virginia Tech, 12
VT was up and down all year long. They were predicted to finish 5th. And they finished... 5th. Probably got a Duke boost by beating Duke at VT without Zion. But whatever.

Roy Williams, North Carolina, 11
You said Roy did a great job this year, but I think he finished right where he was supposed to finish. Predicted 2nd. Finished 2nd. Zero adversity, unless you count Sterling Manley. Sure, Roy didn't have a top recruiting class, but he had a bunch of important senior players, including Cam Johnson, who they got from Pitt last year. And Coby White has been a great freshman for them.

Leonard Hamilton, Florida State, 10
Predicted 6th, finished 4th. A bit uneven at times this year, but should have gotten more votes than Buzz.

Chris Mack, Louisville, 7
I think Mack should have been higher, given the dumpster fire he was handed. Finished 6th, destroyed UNC at home and he managed to regroup his team after that soul crushing 23 point comeback by Duke.

This has happened in years that K won the regular season outright. Duke took the ACC regular season in 2010. Guess who won coach of the year? Gary Williams, who finished 2nd in the ACC.

Not sure where you're getting your numbers from. Duke was predicted to finish 1st. UVa 2nd. UNC 3rd. https://theacc.com/news/2018/10/25/mens-basketball-duke-tops-acc-basketball-preseason-media-poll.aspx

I absolutely stand by what I said. Roy did a fantastic job coaching. Bennett is the most underrated coach in the ACC.

[flyingdutchdevil]

UVa also is playing with less individual talent (in terms of NBA prospects) than some of the other teams in the conference. That plays a big part in it.

Yes, we lost Zion for 5-6 games and Jones for 2-3. But with the exception of the loss to Syracuse, we were playing with at least 4 McDonald's All-Americans every time out. That's more top-end talent than anyone else had. UNC had just one, for example. UVa had just one.

So, I think voters are looking at it that way. Duke, even without Zion, was in theory still a stacked squad. So voters aren't going to give any sympathy for missing one of 5 mcdonald's guys when you still have 4 others. And the voters don't generally take into account experience as a factor in the equation. Nor do they take into account that recruiting is part of coaching.

Basically, I can't get too worked up about something as nebulous as a coach of the year vote.

Same. The optics are not in Duke's favor on this one. When you have the POY, the second voted POY, and you finish 3rd, why would voters put you as the top coach?

[dukelifer]

I think a lot of these CoY awards come down to this - Who's getting the absolute MOST out of his guys night in and night out, while also living up to or beating expectations? UVA almost *never* has a wtf result (well.... in the regular season anyway), or a player who really disappoints compared to expectations. I feel like that's a huuuuuuge part Bennett winning these things over and over.

4 times for Bennett, one less than K. Roy only has it twice- same as Seth. Dean Smith has it 8 times- could be hard to beat but Bennett is getting a lot of love of late.

[El_Diablo]

https://mobile.twitter.com/ArmstrongABC11/status/1105168102931791875?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5 Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1105168102931791875&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fs9e.github.io%2Fiframe%2Ftwi tter.min.html%231105168102931791875

What is the content/relevance of this bald link, for those of us without Twitter access?

[jv001]

4 times for Bennett, one less than K. Roy only has it twice- same as Seth. Dean Smith has it 8 times- could be hard to beat but Bennett is getting a lot of love of late.

I don't count any of Dean's accomplishments. He cheated. GoDuke!

[FerryFor50]

Not sure where you're getting your numbers from. Duke was predicted to finish 1st. UVa 2nd. UNC 3rd. https://theacc.com/news/2018/10/25/mens-basketball-duke-tops-acc-basketball-preseason-media-poll.aspx

I absolutely stand by what I said. Roy did a fantastic job coaching. Bennett is the most underrated coach in the ACC.

How can you be the most underrated coach in the ACC when you've won coach of the year FOUR times in the past 8 years? What is your definition of underrated?

And what metric are you basing Roy doing a fantastic job this season on? I got my predictions from the Sporting News:

http://www.sportingnews.com/us/ncaa-basketball/news/acc-basketball-predictions-2018-19-biggest-games-sleeper-teams-player-of-the-year-virginia/bvmpy4hrgf131938rx7twiuv6

Even in your link, is finishing 2nd when you were projected 3rd really *that* impressive?

I'm not saying that K should have won COY this season; I just think it's ridiculous he's not even getting votes.

[Lar77]

ACC Rookie of the Year
Zion Williamson, Duke, 47
RJ Barrett, Duke, 21
Coby White, North Carolina, 2

Somebody voted for Coby White over Zion and RJ? Coby White is a great player and killed us for about 5 minutes (too soon), but this and giving Nasir Little points for 6th man is taking the light blue bias a little far.

[FerryFor50]

UVa also is playing with less individual talent (in terms of NBA prospects) than some of the other teams in the conference. That plays a big part in it.

Yes, we lost Zion for 5-6 games and Jones for 2-3. But with the exception of the loss to Syracuse, we were playing with at least 4 McDonald's All-Americans every time out. That's more top-end talent than anyone else had. UNC had just one, for example. UVa had just one.

So, I think voters are looking at it that way. Duke, even without Zion, was in theory still a stacked squad. So voters aren't going to give any sympathy for missing one of 5 mcdonald's guys when you still have 4 others. And the voters don't generally take into account experience as a factor in the equation. Nor do they take into account that recruiting is part of coaching.

Basically, I can't get too worked up about something as nebulous as a coach of the year vote.

It's a pretty silly metric to base it on "talent you have to work with." It's a subjective metric. It should be results-based, along with factoring in adversity.

I'm not worked up about COY, nor do I think K should have won. I just notice that every year, he either deserves consideration and doesn't get it, or he doesn't even get a courtesy vote. He hasn't won in almost 20 years; it's very hard to believe he hasn't merited at least one win in that time.

[Lar77]

Just name the Coach of the Year Award after Coach K:D

[Danke Shane]

It is definitely bizarre that Coach K has won three National Championships and 9 ACC Tournaments since his last ACC COY award...

[FerryFor50]

It is definitely bizarre that Coach K has won three National Championships and 9 ACC Tournaments since his last ACC COY award...

And 4 ACC regular season first place finishes.

[rsvman]

What is the content/relevance of this bald link, for those of us without Twitter access?

It's a still shot of the insane block that Zion made on a DeAndre Hunter 3-ball in the game at UVa, accompanied by a statement that says that the poster finds it amusing that the person named Defensive Player of the Year in this picture is the person shooting the ball.

[El_Diablo]

It's a still shot of the insane block that Zion made on a DeAndre Hunter 3-ball in the game at UVa, accompanied by a statement that says that the poster finds it amusing that the person named Defensive Player of the Year in this picture is the person shooting the ball.

Thanks!

[jimsumner]

It is definitely bizarre that Coach K has won three National Championships and 9 ACC Tournaments since his last ACC COY award...

Inasmuch as the ACC COY award is voted on at the end of the regular season, it's hard to factor in games played weeks after that voting.

Coaches of favored teams rarely get COY recognition, in any sport, pro or college. It's just the nature of the beast. How can you over-achieve if you start off number one?

[Owen Meany]

It's a still shot of the insane block that Zion made on a DeAndre Hunter 3-ball in the game at UVa, accompanied by a statement that says that the poster finds it amusing that the person named Defensive Player of the Year in this picture is the person shooting the ball.

9150

Mark Armstrong
@ArmstrongABC11
It’ll never not be funny to me that the ACC DPOY is the guy shooting the ball in this picture.

[NSDukeFan]

Impressive for Z to not only win POY, ROY and 1st team, but also All Defense. BEAST!!!!!!!!!!
If he’s not in his best shape ever and a bit rusty, think he might still help the team a bit?

I think it's ridiculous that the bar is that high for him, yet Roy gets 11 votes.
To be fair, coach K is one of the best leaders in all of sports and Roy is a pretty good coach. In Roy’s defence, he is potentially the only coach wh could have taken a recruit ranked with Zion, R.J. and Cam and turned him into a bench player.

[JayZee]

So it seems like 4 people decided that they would not vote for RJ and Tre. RJ in the freshman team, and Tre in the defensive team. Shameful how petty some people are.

https://twitter.com/KelseyRiggsWCNC/status/1105167812895612930

Same 4 as didn't vote RJ All-ACC First team, obviously...

Probably tried to, but got blinded by their light blue shirt and pen.

Honestly I think that we should maybe just take a step back and applaud the courage and grit of those 4 to vote for Zion.

[DarkstarWahoo]

If he’s not in his best shape ever and a bit rusty, think he might still help the team a bit?

To be fair, coach K is one of the best leaders in all of sports and Roy is a pretty good coach. In Roy’s defence, he is potentially the only coach wh could have taken a recruit ranked with Zion, R.J. and Cam and turned him into a bench player.

That's both very funny and a little harsh. Little is a bad fit for what UNC does. He'd be a terror as a small-ball 4 at a different school, but Roy doesn't play that way. He made a bad college deci$ion.

[FerryFor50]

It's a still shot of the insane block that Zion made on a DeAndre Hunter 3-ball in the game at UVa, accompanied by a statement that says that the poster finds it amusing that the person named Defensive Player of the Year in this picture is the person shooting the ball.

Beyond that, if you look at the numbers, how does Hunter get it over Zion, other than being on a UVA team that collectively plays better defense than Duke?

In conference stats...

Hunter: .6 steals, .6 blocks, 4.3 defensive boards, 1.1 DWS, 96.1 dRtg.
Williamson: 2.1 steals, 1.8 blocks, 5.2 defensive boards. .9 DWS, 91.1 dRtg

It couldn't have been because Zion missed 4 games because he won POY and ROY. What do they base the DPOY on?

[FerryFor50]

That's both very funny and a little harsh. Little is a bad fit for what UNC does. He'd be a terror as a small-ball 4 at a different school, but Roy doesn't play that way. He made a bad college deci$ion.

I disagree. Little has shown over the past few games what he's capable of when he gets minutes. He should have been playing a LOT more this season. But you're right about his college decision; I hope future top recruits see how he got buried on the bench for most of the year.

[sagegrouse]

It is definitely bizarre that Coach K has won three National Championships and 9 ACC Tournaments since his last ACC COY award...

I can't imagine what Coach K would have to do to win an ACC COY award. This is a guy not only with five NCAA titles but also was the coach of three Olympic gold medal teams and two world championship teams. This is like giving the neighborhood's "best garden" award to the guy at the end of the block who has a 50-acre estate and three full-time gardeners.

[NSDukeFan]

I can't imagine what Coach K would have to do to win an ACC COY award. This is a guy not only with five NCAA titles but also was the coach of three Olympic gold medal teams and two world championship teams. This is like giving the neighborhood's "best garden" award to the guy at the end of the block who has a 50-acre estate and three full-time gardeners.

I think part of the problem is that, IMHO, these awards tend to discount perhaps the most important part of college basketball coaching, recruiting, in favour of what did you do with the players you had.

[flyingdutchdevil]

How can you be the most underrated coach in the ACC when you've won coach of the year FOUR times in the past 8 years? What is your definition of underrated?

Because UVa continues to be underrated in the preseason. Here are UVa's preason rankings vs their reg season rankings for the last 7 years:

2019: 2 / 1
2018: 6 / 1
2017: 3 / 6
2016: 2 / 2
2015: 4 / 1
2014: 4 / 1
2013: 7 / 4

Basically, UVa underperformed vs preseason polls once in that seven year span.


And what metric are you basing Roy doing a fantastic job this season on?

Finishing 16-2 in the conference, including winning the last 7 games. This is the ACC COY, not COY. Also, Roy Williams started players ranked #27, >#100, >#100, >#100, and >#100 in their respective classes, according to RSCI (how Cam Johnson, Luke Maye, nor Kenny Williams was ranked in the top 100 in their classes is shocking). Now, they also had a #4 player on the bench.


I got my predictions from the Sporting News:

http://www.sportingnews.com/us/ncaa-basketball/news/acc-basketball-predictions-2018-19-biggest-games-sleeper-teams-player-of-the-year-virginia/bvmpy4hrgf131938rx7twiuv6

Not sure how many folks would take Sporting News over the official ACC preseason results. Also, here is a list of the preseason polls and where Duke, UNC, and the rest of the ACC fall: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018%E2%80%9319_Atlantic_Coast_Conference_men%27s_ basketball_season In none of them was UNC ranked ahead of Duke.


Even in your link, is finishing 2nd when you were projected 3rd really *that* impressive?

It's more impressive than finishing 3rd when you're predicted to finish 1st.


I'm not saying that K should have won COY this season; I just think it's ridiculous he's not even getting votes.

I just don't think we're going to agree on this. I think Duke is an amazing team that is likely favored to win the whole thing (assuming Zion is actually back). But when you're overly reliant on 1 player and you have no depth despite some really highly recruited HS players as sophomores+, I just don't see how this year is more impressive than Bennett and Williams 2x.

[Troublemaker]

Bennett and Buzz are both very deserving, imo. WRT to Buzz, Darkstar actually reminded me that VaTech was missing Chris Clarke all season, too. It wasn't just Justin Robinson. And, after a rough first 3 games following Robinson's injury, Buzz had the Hokies playing as well as they were playing pre-Robinson injury. Great stuff from Buzz.


On optics alone, Roy did a great job this year. Compared to expectations, he did better than K. Yes - injuries devastated Duke. But that's basketball.

IMO - if you're ranked to finish the ACC first and you finish third, should you be considered COY? I don't think so at all.

This analysis is too simplistic for me. We should recognize that Roy had a favorable schedule and that he was the biggest beneficiary of Zion's injury. It'd be something if Roy actually did anything special -- even just beat UVA at home on a very short turnaround for UVA after the Hoos were swept by Duke, one of the best scheduling spots all season. But he basically just held serve against a favorable schedule and enjoyed some close-game luck like the Miami game at home.

Both Roy and Coach K should've received zero votes for COY. We can't assume that Duke would've continued skull-shagging the league if Zion didn't get injured. But we shouldn't assume that UNC would've had the same success if Zion were healthy. They both deserved incompletes, essentially. I agree with Ferry if that's his take.

[DarkstarWahoo]

Beyond that, if you look at the numbers, how does Hunter get it over Zion, other than being on a UVA team that collectively plays better defense than Duke?

In conference stats...

Hunter: .6 steals, .6 blocks, 4.3 defensive boards, 1.1 DWS, 96.1 dRtg.
Williamson: 2.1 steals, 1.8 blocks, 5.2 defensive boards. .9 DWS, 91.1 dRtg

It couldn't have been because Zion missed 4 games because he won POY and ROY. What do they base the DPOY on?

I was shocked to see him not getting any votes to the point that I’m assuming each school could only nominate one player, and Duke chose Jones.

[flyingdutchdevil]

I think part of the problem is that, IMHO, these awards tend to discount perhaps the most important part of college basketball coaching, recruiting, in favour of what did you do with the players you had.

I 100% agree with this statement. And, under my methodology of preseason vs actuals, recruiting is already factored into both.

That's why Bennett and, to a lesser extent, Roy Williams do well in these rankings: they don't have the big names but their teams often perform as well as, or sometimes better than, Coach K's Duke.

[Acymetric]

So, there have been a lot of years where K should have won COY, but I'm not sure this year is a good year to make that case. No problem with him getting 0 votes there (and I'm not saying he did a bad job with this team).

I am slightly surprised (but not bothered) at how few All-ACC votes Tre got given that he was runner up for DPOY.

[UVa1981]

UVa also is playing with less individual talent (in terms of NBA prospects) than some of the other teams in the conference. That plays a big part in it.

Yes, we lost Zion for 5-6 games and Jones for 2-3. But with the exception of the loss to Syracuse, we were playing with at least 4 McDonald's All-Americans every time out. That's more top-end talent than anyone else had. UNC had just one, for example. UVa had just one.

So, I think voters are looking at it that way. Duke, even without Zion, was in theory still a stacked squad. So voters aren't going to give any sympathy for missing one of 5 mcdonald's guys when you still have 4 others. And the voters don't generally take into account experience as a factor in the equation. Nor do they take into account that recruiting is part of coaching.

To me, this post mostly hits the mark, provided the question asked is this: which coach gets the most out of their talent? That can, in turn, be distilled down to: recruiting class. Duke brought in such a wildly ranked recruiting class that anything less than a national championship was going to be disappointing to some. Personally, I find that myopic, though understandable.

Knitting freshman--even 5-star ones--into a cohesive whole is a daunting problem, particularly on the defensive end of the floor, and even more particularly if they're playing with one eye on a NBA career. Recruiting a 3-star Malcolm Brogdon and developing him into ACC POY and NBA ROY ain't so shabby either, along with developing other players into a unit that functions as a whole, much as fingers can turn into a fist. The problem is that the former gets discounted because of outrageous expectation, while the latter gets accentuated when it comes to COY voting. All IMO.

Personally, while I think Bennett has done a good job this year (you don't have to look much further than his average margin of victory in the ACC, never mind the fact that a lot of that was done on the road against the Conference's best teams, excluding Duke), Williams (the Virginia Tech one) did a remarkable job, considering that he lost his best player (Robinson), his best sixth man and rebounder (Clark), and his best recruit (Nalley). He retooled their offense not once but twice, first slowing it down when it became clear his team was going to run out of legs if he didn't, than running the offense through Blackshear when he could no longer run it through Robinson.

Finally, if I controlled all the votes in the voting, I'd have given some to Krzyzewski too. Your defense doesn't look anything like it did last year, and that's because he had players that would take the coaching so he made the most of it. A good job adapting to kind of talent.

[FerryFor50]

So, there have been a lot of years where K should have won COY, but I'm not sure this year is a good year to make that case. No problem with him getting 0 votes there (and I'm not saying he did a bad job with this team).

This is more in line with my gripe, I think. It’s not that I think K should have won, but I don’t think Roy was deserving either. My vitriol for K not getting votes centered more around how he gets consistently shafted in the ACC awards, regardless of how well Duke does.

[devildeac]

This is more in line with my gripe, I think. It’s not that I think K should have won, but I don’t think Roy was deserving either. My vitriol for K not getting votes centered more around how he gets consistently shafted in the ACC awards, regardless of how well Duke does.

Just in the acc awards? :rolleyes::mad:

[johnb]

If they had recruiter of the year, Duke would win. Coach of the year seems a reference to what one does with talent. Our team is historically talented (at least judged by NBA standards), often seems to play with elite spontenaiety, is still favored to win the NCAA, and we finished 3rd in the league. K can be the goat and still not warrant votes for a conference season.

[Troublemaker]

Let's have some perspective here, folks. When this season began, Duke was not the #1 team. Kentucky was widely picked to beat Duke in the first game of the season. Many people -- including most Duke fans -- thought this team would struggle defending in man-to-man; we should probably just start the season in zone, they said.

In short, nobody thought Duke would be this good this season when healthy. Coach K has had a great season and until Zion got injured was probably the most deserving COY candidate based on what had happened up until that point, including performing a head-to-head sweep of the eventual COY winner. Again, I don't believe Coach K should've won because we can't just assume things would've continued as was had Zion not gotten hurt. (We can feel strongly that would've been the case, though :-). But let's keep things in perspective.

A lot of inferior takes to mine in this thread.

[arnie]

Just in the acc awards? :rolleyes::mad:

Yea, the “Oh” for 38 in the AP poll blows away Jack’s streak of misses.

[CrazyNotCrazie]

If they had recruiter of the year, Duke would win. Coach of the year seems a reference to what one does with talent. Our team is historically talented (at least judged by NBA standards), often seems to play with elite spontenaiety, is still favored to win the NCAA, and we finished 3rd in the league. K can be the goat and still not warrant votes for a conference season.

Great point - Coach of the Year is based on overachieving with the talent you have. Last time I looked a major part of the job description for a college basketball coach is recruiting talent. Then you have to build the talent into a cohesive unit (just because you have a lot of talent doesn't mean that it will come together as an effective team). But that does not get recognized.

[dukelifer]

Let's have some perspective here, folks. When this season began, Duke was not the #1 team. Kentucky was widely picked to beat Duke in the first game of the season. Many people -- including most Duke fans -- thought this team would struggle defending in man-to-man; we should probably just start the season in zone, they said.

In short, nobody thought Duke would be this good this season when healthy. Coach K has had a great season and until Zion got injured was probably the most deserving COY candidate based on what had happened up until that point, including performing a head-to-head sweep of the eventual COY winner. Again, I don't believe Coach K should've won because we can't just assume things would've continued as was had Zion not gotten hurt. (We can feel strongly that would've been the case, though :-). But let's keep things in perspective.

A lot of inferior takes to mine in this thread.

As I posted in some thread- this team exceeded my expectations. The team was crazy young- no senior leadership and suspect outside shooting. All those things affected the season but the team still showed great fight and won a lot of games - even if a few were nail biters. Zion is a joy to watch and nobody wants to win more than RJ. K did a great job with such a young team to get them prepared.

[Troublemaker]

As I posted in some thread- this team exceeded my expectations. The team was crazy young- no senior leadership and suspect outside shooting. All those things affected the season but the team still showed great fight and won a lot of games - even if a few were nail biters. Zion is a joy to watch and nobody wants to win more than RJ. K did a great job with such a young team to get them prepared.

And I respect your consistency, dukelifer. If you or anyone else were pessimistic about Duke in the preseason, then it makes sense for you to think Coach K had a great coaching season. (Assuming we play this COY game at all via expectations -- if one thinks the whole thing is a farce, I can respect that, too).

If we were to collect all the preseason expectations about Duke and plotted them on a graph, I believe what Duke had accomplished up until the second Zion's shoe fell apart was all the way to right of the graph in the 99th percentile. At least in the 98th percentile.

But Zion's shoe did blow up, and Coach K deserves an incomplete instead of winning the award. But he was on pace to win COY, imo, unless you believe the voters would've still given it to a coach he swept 2-0 head-to-head.

[English]

I was shocked to see him not getting any votes to the point that I’m assuming each school could only nominate one player, and Duke chose Jones.

This is exactly what happened; Duke didn't nominate Zion for DPOY. I don't think it was a matter of each school only having one nomination, though*. Perhaps the coaching staff felt Tre's chances of winning the award they thought he earned would be better if Zion wasn't competition.

I recognize that it's been said, but my God, four people voted for five freshmen to the All-Freshmen Team over RJ. That almost broke my brain. Someone voted for Ky Bowman as the ACC Player of the Year. I just, I can't even. Coby White got more All-Freshman Team votes than RJ, who trounced him for ACC POY and ACC First Team votes. That just doesn't make sense. What is happening?!

The K COY thing doesn't really bother me for reasons already stated. This just isn't the year I think K should've won the award. But it IS the year I think K should win the ACCT and his sixth natty.

*I'm not sure whether each school gets one nom, but that's not the impression the voters mentioned when explaining why Zion didn't sweep the awards.

[ElliottHoo]

*I'm not sure whether each school gets one nom, but that's not the impression the voters mentioned when explaining why Zion didn't sweep the awards.

I've been trying to find out if this is genuinely the case (because it sure looks that way from this year's voting), and I can't find anything formal. Going back a few years and looking at the voting, there have been cases where more than one player on a team will get a vote for ACC Defensive Player of the Year, but its always just one vote. Last year, UVA's Wilkins won it but Jack Salt also got one vote. In 2015, James Robinson and Cameron Wright from Pitt each got a vote (I forget how recently Pitt was genuinely good). In 2013, UVA's Mitchell and Anderson both got votes (21 and 1, respectively) but Clemson's McDaniel won.

So, multiple players from the same team getting votes isn't uncommon, it happens every 2 or 3 years, though the second player typically seems to get just 1 vote. I suspect its not so much a "You *cannot* vote for Zion", as a softer, more informal "Tre's the best defensive player, so lets all vote for him and try to win the award, ok?" which most folks will follow, but occasionally someone will be "that guy" and vote for someone else.

[flyingdutchdevil]

This is exactly what happened; Duke didn't nominate Zion for DPOY. I don't think it was a matter of each school only having one nomination, though*. Perhaps the coaching staff felt Tre's chances of winning the award they thought he earned would be better if Zion wasn't competition.

I recognize that it's been said, but my God, four people voted for five freshmen to the All-Freshmen Team over RJ. That almost broke my brain. Someone voted for Ky Bowman as the ACC Player of the Year. I just, I can't even. Coby White got more All-Freshman Team votes than RJ, who trounced him for ACC POY and ACC First Team votes. That just doesn't make sense. What is happening?!

The K COY thing doesn't really bother me for reasons already stated. This just isn't the year I think K should've won the award. But it IS the year I think K should win the ACCT and his sixth natty.

*I'm not sure whether each school gets one nom, but that's not the impression the voters mentioned when explaining why Zion didn't sweep the awards.

You and I are completely aligned.

But Zion needs to be Zion. This year, he's by far the most important individual on the team, Coach K included.

[J4Kop99]

Zion wins Sporting News NPOY (http://www.goduke.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_LANG=C&ATCLID=211795153&DB_OEM_ID=4200)

[Troublemaker]

I've been trying to find out if this is genuinely the case (because it sure looks that way from this year's voting), and I can't find anything formal. Going back a few years and looking at the voting, there have been cases where more than one player on a team will get a vote for ACC Defensive Player of the Year, but its always just one vote. Last year, UVA's Wilkins won it but Jack Salt also got one vote. In 2015, James Robinson and Cameron Wright from Pitt each got a vote (I forget how recently Pitt was genuinely good). In 2013, UVA's Mitchell and Anderson both got votes (21 and 1, respectively) but Clemson's McDaniel won.

So, multiple players from the same team getting votes isn't uncommon, it happens every 2 or 3 years, though the second player typically seems to get just 1 vote. I suspect its not so much a "You *cannot* vote for Zion", as a softer, more informal "Tre's the best defensive player, so lets all vote for him and try to win the award, ok?" which most folks will follow, but occasionally someone will be "that guy" and vote for someone else.

It is. A classic case occurred in 2015 involving UVA actually. That season, the ACC media were all ready to give DPOY to Malcolm Brogdon until they were surprised when UVA nominated Darion Atkins for the award instead. Atkins won (and was also deserving, imo).

When you see a single vote here or there in past seasons for a second player on the same team as another player who received more votes, it's probably one rogue voter (and may be the same person each time) who won't abide by the guidelines to vote on the school-submitted nominations. Essentially, that voter thinks he knows better than the coaches who was the most valuable defender on each team.

[fuse]

SI has Zion first team, RJ second:

https://www.si.com/college-basketball/2019/03/13/ncaa-all-americans-zion-williamson-ja-morant-rj-barrett

[Kfanarmy]

I think it's ridiculous that the bar is that high for him, yet Roy gets 11 votes.

Well...may not like it but Roy went 2-0 head-to-head in the regular season against Coach K and has a top-3 national ranking...not too out of line for votes in COY.

[Kfanarmy]

4 times for Bennett, one less than K. Roy only has it twice- same as Seth. Dean Smith has it 8 times- could be hard to beat but Bennett is getting a lot of love of late.

Over performing against expectations...eventually the expectations will, probably, catch up. Unless they go out 1st weekend again.

[DukeTrinity11]

Culver over Barrett on the 1st Team All-American is ridiculous and inexcusable.

Do better Sports Illustrated.

[Troublemaker]

Culver over Barrett on the 1st Team All-American is ridiculous and inexcusable.

Do better Sports Illustrated.

They're comparable players, imo. Could go either way.

In case you're wondering about kenpom, he has player of the year rankings where Culver is currently #2 and RJ #4. (Zion would be #1 but got injured. Ethan Happ is #1).

[Wander]

Culver over Barrett on the 1st Team All-American is ridiculous and inexcusable.

Do better Sports Illustrated.

Right now, Culver is a better defender than Barrett. That makes it defensible IMO.

Looking at these lists makes me very not-worried about Zion's NPOY chances. I don't see any other player this year who you could defend as even being close to Zion. Maybe if it was a year where there was someone close, the missed games could be a tipping point against Zion. But not this year.

[jv001]

I just saw on Facebook/Blue Devil Nation that our Al Featherstone/Oly was awarded the Marvin Skeeter Francis Award for outstanding reporting on the ACC. Dan Bonner was honored as well. I sure miss Oly's posts. I bet he's still telling Duke stories to all that will listen up there. Sorry if this has already been posted. GoDuke!

[wgl1228]

Zion is now one of the four finalists for National Defensive Player of the Year along with Hunter (UVA), Clarke (Gonzaga), and Thybulle (Washignton). Anyone think he might can win this too?

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Zion is now one of the four finalists for National Defensive Player of the Year along with Hunter (UVA), Clarke (Gonzaga), and Thybulle (Washignton). Anyone think he might can win this too?

Depends if he plays like a house on fire for the next 9 games...

[bullettoothtony]

Culver over Barrett on the 1st Team All-American is ridiculous and inexcusable.

Do better Sports Illustrated.


It is absurd that R.J. made their 2nd team.

He and Zion are the two best players in the country. I suspect the SI voters just didn't want two Duke guys on the first team at the end of the day.

[akg4y]

That's true, but Buzz lost his best player (Justin Robinson) and his sixth man/leading rebounder (Chris Clarke) after the poll came out, along with his most highly rated freshman (Landers Nolley). I don't think VT would have been picked fifth if those three were ruled out before the voting occurred.

I think Buzz would have been the easiest choice, and maybe the correct one. I really think his weirdo routine with them affected the voting.


Taking this a step further, nobody expected Hunter or Jerome to be NBA prospects when they started at UVA, let alone when Bennett recruited them. Kyle Guy, maybe an outside shot. Now Hunter is a likely lottery pick, Jerome is late first round or early second round, and NBA teams would be stupid to not draft Guy and at least give him a shot just because of his build or size. Bennett is taking borderline players and making them NBA material. Brogdon became NBA ROY and is a solid NBA starter on one of the best teams in the league. Joe Harris is lighting it up and just won the 3 point contest. These are all guys that more likely than not would have disappeared into obscurity at most other programs. The people voting for these awards see this, and they see how Bennett handled the UMBC loss last year and helped these kids grow and learn from it. All of that contributes to what makes a 'Coach of the Year,' not just taking 3 top 5 NBA lottery picks and winning games with them, even if that poses it's own challenge year in and year out.