Coach K and Duke: Get Rid of Nike BASKETBALLS(please)

[Spanarkel]

With all the press about Zion's Nike shoe blow-out and the ongoing legal proceedings into the apparently undue influence of shoe companies in college basketball, I am compelled to plead with Coach K and Duke to: GET RID OF NIKE BASKETBALLS.

Honestly, there is probably not much difference in the quality of high-end basketball SHOES
from any of the top manufacturers(just the "Wow factor" of what the shoes look like and who endorses them).

However, there appears to be almost universal unanimity that the Nike Elite BASKETBALLS used by Duke and other Nike schools are not even in the top 5-10 in product quality/satisfaction(Wilson/Spalding/Baden/Molten regularly outrank Nike basketballs in every rating I looked at).

Since the stated aim of Duke Men's Basketball is to pursue championships every season, I would ask Coach K and Duke to modify their lucrative Nike contracts to allow use of the Wilson basketball that is used for NCAA Championship play in Duke's regular season games. I really feel that it is cheapening the game to use a product that the vast majority of players OF EVERY LEVEL would not use themselves when they head down to the local courts to get some run in.

[szstark]

With all the press about Zion's Nike shoe blow-out and the ongoing legal proceedings into the apparently undue influence of shoe companies in college basketball, I am compelled to plead with Coach K and Duke to: GET RID OF NIKE BASKETBALLS.

Honestly, there is probably not much difference in the quality of high-end basketball SHOES
from any of the top manufacturers(just the "Wow factor" of what the shoes look like and who endorses them).

However, there appears to be almost universal unanimity that the Nike Elite BASKETBALLS used by Duke and other Nike schools are not even in the top 5-10 in product quality/satisfaction(Wilson/Spalding/Baden/Molten regularly outrank Nike basketballs in every rating I looked at).

Since the stated aim of Duke Men's Basketball is to pursue championships every season, I would ask Coach K and Duke to modify their lucrative Nike contracts to allow use of the Wilson basketball that is used for NCAA Championship play in Duke's regular season games. I really feel that it is cheapening the game to use a product that the vast majority of players OF EVERY LEVEL would not use themselves when they head down to the local courts to get some run in.

Are you saying there is a direct relationship with our 3-point percentage at home being worse than either away or neutral courts and using Nike basketballs? Is this true for previous years where we’ve used Nike basketballs? Were Nike’s used at any places where we shot lights out? Just curious.

[flyingdutchdevil]

And if we get rid of Nike, how do you expect Duke to replace that income?

Charge an average of $8K per Duke/UNC ticket instead of $3K?

[dukebluesincebirth]

And if we get rid of Nike, how do you expect Duke to replace that income?

Charge an average of $8K per Duke/UNC ticket instead of $3K?

From Bleacher Report, October 2015:

According to a press release from the school, under terms of the deal, Nike will serve as the exclusive supplier of uniforms, footwear, equipment and merchandise through 2027. Financial terms of the agreement were not available.

[mph]

Reminds me of this (https://maroonandwhitenation.com/2019/02/01/can-mississippi-state-basketball-overcome-nike-ball-ole-miss/) post about Mississippi State’s 3 point shooting with the Nike ball.

As of January 30:


MSU 3-point shooting this year:

In 14 games shooting the Wilson ball: 142-for-342 (41.5%)

In 6 games shooting the Nike ball: 31-for-134 (23.1%)

I have no idea what the numbers look like since, but MSU forward Nick Weatherspoon thinks the Nike ball is too slick.

[left_hook_lacey]

I have always maintained that the Wilson solution basketball handled and shot better than any other ball I've ever played with. The channels were just right, the surface of the leather was perfect.

The OP is on to something here. I once read an article that reported that some college teams practice with the specific brand of ball that their opponent uses before going to an away game.

Seems like some of these schools are bound to less than stellar balls because of equipment deals.

[robed deity]

Reminds me of this (https://maroonandwhitenation.com/2019/02/01/can-mississippi-state-basketball-overcome-nike-ball-ole-miss/) post about Mississippi State’s 3 point shooting with the Nike ball.

As of January 30:



I have no idea what the numbers look like since, but MSU forward Nick Weatherspoon thinks the Nike ball is too slick.

Wait, and Duke probably uses the Nike ones mostly at home. Could that be the 3 point shooting problem?! (Kidding...mostly)

[wilson]

Clearly, Wilson is the best choice.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Clearly, Wilson is the best choice.

Username checks out...

[Troublemaker]

And if we get rid of Nike, how do you expect Duke to replace that income?

Charge an average of $8K per Duke/UNC ticket instead of $3K?

Well, Spanarkel was asking for a modification in the relationship (see below) instead of ditching Nike outright. Probably still very unlikely, but not as unrealistic as ditching a contract that's signed thru 2027.

Also, was it Duke charging $3K for Duke-UNC tickets or was it the secondary market?



Since the stated aim of Duke Men's Basketball is to pursue championships every season, I would ask Coach K and Duke to modify their lucrative Nike contracts to allow use of the Wilson basketball that is used for NCAA Championship play in Duke's regular season games. I really feel that it is cheapening the game to use a product that the vast majority of players OF EVERY LEVEL would not use themselves when they head down to the local courts to get some run in.

[budwom]

Clearly, Wilson is the best choice.

Tom Hanks knew what he was doing.

[mkirsh]

While I agree 100% that the Wilson evolution is a MUCH better ball than the Nike elite, unlike in football (looking at you, Pats) both teams use the same ball. So it would only matter if the percentage of jump shots was wildly different between teams which is usually not the case.

[Spanarkel]

Are you saying there is a direct relationship with our 3-point percentage at home being worse than either away or neutral courts and using Nike basketballs? Is this true for previous years where we’ve used Nike basketballs? Were Nike’s used at any places where we shot lights out? Just curious.

I'm unsure as to the answers to your reasonable questions regarding basketball manufacturer and Duke's shooting percentages. I just think that the best college players deserve to use the best basketball available, and in this case the NCAA has apparently made a good decision for its championship level play and chosen a Wilson model(not the Evolution but I'm not sure which one). I say let Nike put out data(both objective/subjective) that support that their Elite model ball is non-inferior to other models preferred by ballers worldwide(Spalding NBA/several Wilson models/the Baden that FIBA uses(not aesthetically pleasing IMO)/Molten/The Rock). I very well could be wrong, but I don't believe Nike makes ANY of the basketballs(Spalding)/baseballs(Rawlings)/footballs(Wilson)/soccer balls(Adidas I believe, at least for World Cup)/pucks(Inglasco) used for professional competition in any sport. I'm not questioning Nike footwear but it's somewhat unlikely that one company can produce multiple different items at an elite level.

Duke is recruiting, training and playing hard every year to excel in March Madness, and the only basketball used in March Madness is Wilson.

[75Crazie]

And if we get rid of Nike, how do you expect Duke to replace that income?
This is a tongue-in-cheek statement … right?

[cspan37421]

I just think that the best college players deserve to use the best basketball available, and in this case the NCAA has apparently made a good decision for its championship level play and chosen a Wilson model(not the Evolution but I'm not sure which one). I say let Nike put out data(both objective/subjective) ...
Duke is recruiting, training and playing hard every year to excel in March Madness, and the only basketball used in March Madness is Wilson.

Do I understand you correctly? That you believe the NCAA chose Wilson because they are objectively and subjectively better basketballs? Wilson, "The Official Basketball of the NCAA Championships and NCAA March Madness"? As opposed to them being chosen on the basis of, oh, I don't know, sponsorship money? [which, upon receipt, leads to a granting of the same form of appellation ... e.g., "Smooth Droperator, the Official Stool Softener of the NCAA Championships and NCAA March Madness"? ]

To paraphrase the immortal words of English poet and leather-and-studs aficionado Rob Halford,


Out there is a fortune waiting to be had
If you think [they'll] let it go you're mad
You've got another thing comin'


You may be entirely right about the merits of each product, but I don't believe for a second that's how the NCAA decided on their official ball. No, they'd never accept a bad one - but among ones good enough, I strongly suspect money talks.

[CDu]

Do I understand you correctly? That you believe the NCAA chose Wilson because they are objectively and subjectively better basketballs? Wilson, "The Official Basketball of the NCAA Championships and NCAA March Madness"? As opposed to them being chosen on the basis of, oh, I don't know, sponsorship money? [which, upon receipt, leads to a granting of the same form of appellation ... e.g., "Smooth Droperator, the Official Stool Softener of the NCAA Championships and NCAA March Madness"? ]

To paraphrase the immortal words of English poet and leather-and-studs aficionado Rob Halford,


You may be entirely right about the merits of each product, but I don't believe for a second that's how the NCAA decided on their official ball. No, they'd never accept a bad one - but among ones good enough, I strongly suspect money talks.

Nothing in Spanarkel’s post suggests that the NCAA chose the ball because it is the best ball. He or she is saying that the tourney should use the best ball, and that he or she is glad the NCAA chose a Wilson ball. And the reason he or she is glad is because Wilson makes the best basketballs. Nothing was said about how/why the NCAA made that decision, just that the decision itself was a good one.

[rsvman]

Do I understand you correctly? That you believe the NCAA chose Wilson because they are objectively and subjectively better basketballs? Wilson, "The Official Basketball of the NCAA Championships and NCAA March Madness"? As opposed to them being chosen on the basis of, oh, I don't know, sponsorship money? [which, upon receipt, leads to a granting of the same form of appellation ... e.g., "Smooth Droperator, the Official Stool Softener of the NCAA Championships and NCAA March Madness"? ]

To paraphrase the immortal words of English poet and leather-and-studs aficionado Rob Halford,


You may be entirely right about the merits of each product, but I don't believe for a second that's how the NCAA decided on their official ball. No, they'd never accept a bad one - but among ones good enough, I strongly suspect money talks.

Sorry, Rob, but the correct phrase is you've got another think coming, not another thing.

That is all.

[msdukie]

Duke used Wilson balls into the mid/late 2000s before switching to the Nike Elite ball, despite being a Nike Basketball school since the 1993-4 season. I think every school now uses a ball from the shoe supplier. And both teams have to use the same ball and the ACC and NCAA send balls in advance for the teams to work with in advance of the respective tournaments.

[53n206]

"Nothing but net" would solve the problem, or end the controversy.

[DoubleBlue]

The NBA is switching from Spalding to Wilson for game balls this season, starting in Summer League action. Spalding had the contract since 1983, but before that it was Wilson since the NBA inception in 1946.

The Wilson ball has the same leather material, configuration and performance specifications as the previous Spalding game balls. The NCAA switched to Wilson leather balls last year for the NCAA Tournament... but teams can use their own brand for their regular season games. Duke uses the Nike Elite ball.

Wilson also makes the Evolution ball which is a composite material with a very good grip and is considered to be a shooters ball. The Wilson Evolution is now being used in the WNBA. Perhaps we'll see that in the NBA one day.

Spalding is still the supplier of game balls for FIBA, Euroleague and many state high school associations.

Here are a couple of comments about the new ball:


https://www.inquirer.com/sixers/spalding-basketball-wilson-nba-summer-league-20210813.html

Some players will peep the differences in a basketball’s texture with their eyes closed while others would hoop with a rock. Sixers guard Isaiah Joe is more of the former.

“To me it kind of has a little bit of a harder feel,” Joe told The Inquirer’s Keith Pompey. “We’re still trying to break them in a little bit more, but they don’t stick quite like the Spalding ball once they get sweaty, so that’s just the biggest adjustment.”

Sixers guard Tyrese Maxey is the latter.

“At the end of the day, they all go through the hoop, so, it doesn’t really matter to me,” Maxey said to Pompey. “I like the basketball.”

[Spanarkel]

Duke used Wilson balls into the mid/late 2000s before switching to the Nike Elite ball, despite being a Nike Basketball school since the 1993-4 season. I think every school now uses a ball from the shoe supplier. And both teams have to use the same ball and the ACC and NCAA send balls in advance for the teams to work with in advance of the respective tournaments.

Notre Dame (an UnderArmour uniform school) uses the Wilson NCAA basketball for its home games.

[sagegrouse]

Why not just tell Nike what we want in a ball design.

Golfers change club sponsors all the time, and it seems to be due to economics not functionality. For example, the club mfr. will custom make any club the player wants.

[DoubleBlue]

Why not just tell Nike what we want in a ball design.

Maybe they do work with Nike on ball design. I'd like to hear the inside scoop if there is any ball customizaton by equipment suppliers. Although both teams use the same ball for any given game you would think that Duke would benefit from a ball with better feel and touch for shooting.

[dudog84]

At least we've got an excuse for any underperformance in the tournament.

But seriously, the one-and-done NCAA is a razor's edge. The players are already adjusting to different arenas (which of course they do during the season), I'd think you'd want to normalize/standardize the things you can control as much as possible.

I wonder what they practice with, but then play with Nike in public to keep the money rolling in. That would probably leak, but K runs a tight ship. Being army, he probably hates that phrase.

[mkirsh]

At least we've got an excuse for any underperformance in the tournament.

But seriously, the one-and-done NCAA is a razor's edge. The players are already adjusting to different arenas (which of course they do during the season), I'd think you'd want to normalize/standardize the things you can control as much as possible.

I wonder what they practice with, but then play with Nike in public to keep the money rolling in. That would probably leak, but K runs a tight ship. Being army, he probably hates that phrase.

I’m pretty sure they have a large inventory of balls and practice with whatever they will use that week (ie Nike for home games, but if they are going to a school that uses Wilson they will practice with one of those).

IMO Wilson evolution is the gold standard. Every pick up game I play indoors every guy who brings a ball brings an evolution. They are squishy and grippy and amazing to shoot with. Nike balls are harder and a bit slicker in my experience.

[DoubleBlue]

There has been quite a bit written about NCAA game balls and the lack of a standard for regular season games. That can provide an advantage for the home team in selecting the game ball, especially if the opponent is not used to it or has not practiced with that particular ball.

But everyone will use the Wilson ball for the NCAA Tournament so a team may be better off using that ball during the entire regular season. What is clear is that its a free-for-all on ball selection and it may be better for the NCAA to standardize for everyone for the entire season including Conference Tournaments.


Home-Court Edge Begins With Ball
https://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/02/sports/ncaabasketball/college-home-teams-can-pick-their-brands-of-basketballs.html

The N.C.A.A. does not require the use of a specific brand of basketball during the regular season. The home team plays with its preferred type, whether it is Nike or Spalding or Adidas. The choice is often tied to the team’s equipment contract. Because each brand has a distinct feel, it is just another reason it is hard to play on the road in college basketball.


Rubber meets the road: Sun Belt offers proof of basketball brand diversity
https://journalnow.com/sports/college/asu/rubber-meets-the-road-sun-belt-offers-proof-of-basketball-brand-diversity/article_6f2834e6-8fcd-5178-8dd4-e4aa819d5ed8.html

Schools have different procedures for selecting game balls. Florida State point guard Xavier Rathan-Mayes said he’s in charge of choosing at home, and that’s reasonable considering he’s the team’s primary ball-handler.

The Nike ball has a soft, almost-spongy feel, to a point that it can seem underinflated. Those characteristics can affect how well players dribble, pass or shoot that ball compared to the Wilson ball, which many people agree has a harder, tackier feel. Some players prefer to shoot a heavier, bouncier ball that travels through the air with more power, even if it lacks the friendlier bounce that comes when a softer ball compresses against the rim.


Shooters find not every basketball is same in college game
https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaab/2015/01/27/shooters-find-not-every-basketball-is-same-in-college-game/22420647/

"The leather just has more grip on 'em," Boatright said. "The Adidas balls and the Under Armour balls are a little more slippery, a little more slick, but the Nike balls and the Wilson balls have a little more grip to them for the ball handlers."

Most conferences use a uniform ball for their postseason tournaments, and the Wilson Solution is the official ball of the NCAA tournament.


The college basketball difference: The ball can change from game to game
https://www.latimes.com/sports/la-sp-different-basketballs-20160225-story.html (https://www.latimes.com/sports/la-sp-different-basketballs-20160225-story.html)

Despite certain bounciness and air-pressure standards, no two game balls feel the same, many players interviewed for this report said. As the balls are broken in, they develop unique characteristics, like a baseball mitt.

Stewart, though, sometimes suspects trickery. During shoot-arounds on the road, he said, he has noticed some teams supply “all those beat balls. It’s not like the balls the home team plays with.”

[DoubleBlue]

The NBA switched from Spaulding to Wilson balls this year and some are suggesting it has caused shooting percentages to drop thus far.

It would make sense, even if only temporary, until players get used to the different bounce and feel of the new balls.

https://ftw.usatoday.com/2021/11/nba-wilson-spalding-basketball-paul-george-cj-mccollum
https://www.inquirer.com/sixers/sixers-joel-embiid-wilson-spaulding-basketball-20211104.html
https://www.si.com/nba/clippers/news/paul-george-new-wilson-ball-is-why-players-are-struggling-shooting

[cato]

Looks like our poster Wilson has some splainin to do.

[HereBeforeCoachK]

While I agree 100% that the Wilson evolution is a MUCH better ball than the Nike elite, unlike in football (looking at you, Pats) both teams use the same ball. So it would only matter if the percentage of jump shots was wildly different between teams which is usually not the case.


Actually that's not true, or not totally true. A team that relies on 3 point shooting would be hurt far more by an inferior ball than a team that doesn't rely on it. Also, a better team would be hurt more than a mediocre team would....the same way poor conditions is a great equalizer in, say, football.

[AZLA]

With all the press about Zion's Nike shoe blow-out and the ongoing legal proceedings into the apparently undue influence of shoe companies in college basketball, I am compelled to plead with Coach K and Duke to: GET RID OF NIKE BASKETBALLS.

Honestly, there is probably not much difference in the quality of high-end basketball SHOES
from any of the top manufacturers(just the "Wow factor" of what the shoes look like and who endorses them).

However, there appears to be almost universal unanimity that the Nike Elite BASKETBALLS used by Duke and other Nike schools are not even in the top 5-10 in product quality/satisfaction(Wilson/Spalding/Baden/Molten regularly outrank Nike basketballs in every rating I looked at).

Since the stated aim of Duke Men's Basketball is to pursue championships every season, I would ask Coach K and Duke to modify their lucrative Nike contracts to allow use of the Wilson basketball that is used for NCAA Championship play in Duke's regular season games. I really feel that it is cheapening the game to use a product that the vast majority of players OF EVERY LEVEL would not use themselves when they head down to the local courts to get some run in.


My bet is Coach K has a big nice contract with Nike well after he retires. Speaking. Commercials. Ambassadorship. I would just ask him to avoid The Dew.

[CameronDuke]

I believe the ACC Tournament uses Spalding balls. I believe the Champion’s Classic historically has used Spalding balls, too. NCSU uses Adidas balls. BC uses Wilson balls. Notre Dame uses Wilson balls. Louisville uses Wilson balls. GT uses Adidas balls. I believe everyone else uses Nike balls.

[Indoor66]

Is that what they mean by balls up?

[kAzE]

Well, Spanarkel was asking for a modification in the relationship (see below) instead of ditching Nike outright. Probably still very unlikely, but not as unrealistic as ditching a contract that's signed thru 2027.

Also, was it Duke charging $3K for Duke-UNC tickets or was it the secondary market?

Ben Simmons leading the charge for all the oppressed people making huge sums of money off of a brand new contract and not wanting to honor the terms of the deal. Maybe it will work out for us.