NBA Draft Early Entry 2019

[JasonEvans]

Let this be the dedicated thread for everyone who says they are in or out of the 2019 NBA draft.

It begins with Amir Hinton (who??) a Division II player who hopes to become the first D2 player drafted in more than a decade. According to this ESPN article (http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/26170877/div-ii-player-hinton-declares-nba-draft), dude is a legit prospect.

Currently there is exactly one D2 player in the NBA, Jaylen Morris of the Milwaukee Bucks. But, there is certainly a history of some D2 players becoming major contributors in the NBA. Ever heard of George Gervin or Manute Bol? What about Scottie Pippen?

-Jason "this will be the first of close to 200 guys who declare for the draft... even though only about 60 guys end up getting drafted" Evans

[CDu]

This seems like as good a place as any to post this. It's relevant to DBR in that it is an independent site that does a great job on scouting, and they specifically tackle a couple of questions we've seen recently on DBR: should Jones go pro? where should Reddish be drafted? Note: this article was specifically written about the non-Zion Duke guys. Pretty much everyone agrees he's the #1 pick.

https://www.thestepien.com/2019/03/04/draft-notes-non-zion-duke-freshmen/

Summary of the article:

1. Barrett is a complicated NBA prospect. He's not overly athletic, not great at dribbling or deception, and not a good shooter, but is a high-volume shooter. That's a bad combination in today's NBA. And while not a liability on defense, he's not great on that end. Not that he doesn't have value, just that it's really hard to peg where he fits on a contending team in a salary capped sport. They do state that he is a hard worker, so it's hard to say where he'll end up skills wise down the road. But the questions they raise are legitimate NBA concerns in that, when he gets to the NBA, he won't be able to play bullyball against smaller, less athletic wings, which is where much of his success has come. Now it is not so much that they think he'll fall out of the top 2 or 3 picks mind you. He's going to go fairly shortly - if not immediately - after Zion. Not surprisingly, they are much higher on Barrett than either of the other two guys.

2. They don't care for Reddish. At all. The key paragraph is here:

Reddish’s awareness and offensive decision-making in the run of play are generally somewhere between negative and awful. People say he’s unassertive, but he’s got a 26 percent usage and he shoots or turns the ball over on 28 out of every 100 possessions he plays. Reddish doesn’t have problem with assertiveness. Reddish has a severe problem with not knowing when or how to assert himself.
Frankly, I think that pretty accurately sums it up. He just doesn't seem to play with great offensive awareness, and doesn't seem to make good decisions on offense. His good games come when his jumpshot is falling, and that's pretty much the one thing he does consistently well offensively is create space to get his jumpshot. That's actually fairly impressive given how awful he has looked off the dribble. But it is a skill that shouldn't be ignored: he's very good at creating his own jumpshot. The question is, can he be good enough as a shooter to make that a valuable skill?

They also raise the point that Reddish is long and skilled defensively, but they question whether he has any defensive versatility. He's not strong, and they could see him getting worked over by bigger/stronger wings in the NBA. This is one of the places that the Paul George comp may fall short the most: George is a tough defender even against bigger guys, whereas it isn't clear if Reddish can handle the physicality. His lack of comfort with physicality also appears on offense where he's easily dislodged of the ball off the dribble.

The author suggests that he wouldn't want to draft Reddish in the first round this year. But he acknowledges that Reddish WILL go in the lottery. One other interesting note on Reddish: the author suggests that Reddish might need to get his eyesight checked.

3. Tre Jones also gets somewhat panned. The section on Jones can be summarized here:

What Jones needs to improve is mainly his shooting. His lack of a jump shot has affected his entire game. He often looks like he’s playing scared, especially without Zion.

He notes that, because Jones is a good FT shooter (historically at least, and it's looking that way as the season goes on), there's reason for hope with his game. And that he could really use an extra year in college to improve his outside shot and half court offensive game.

The most interesting part of the discussion for me though is this:

The ironic thing, considering Reddish and Jones, is that Reddish should declare and Jones should stay, but that risk/reward for NBA teams suggests that spending a late first or a second round pick on Jones is a much better play than drafting Reddish early.

Basically, nothing Earth-shattering here. I just thought it was really interesting as a breakdown of our guys. Ultimately, I'd expect all 4 to go pro, with Jones being the only slightly questionable one on the list. Jones is the only one with potential for upward mobility in returning (if he develops a perimeter shot, he's a lottery pick for his other attributes; without it, he's borderline 1st round material). Barrett and Reddish (the former because he's not going to gain anything by returning, the latter because "potential" is keeping his stock super high right now) should go pro without question.

[wk2109]

Darius Garland withdrew from Vanderbilt in January to prepare for the draft: https://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/projected-nba-lottery-pick-darius-garland-withdraws-from-vanderbilt-to-prepare-for-nba-draft/

[sagegrouse]

2. They don't care for Reddish. At all. The key paragraph is here:

Frankly, I think that pretty accurately sums it up. He just doesn't seem to play with great offensive awareness, and doesn't seem to make good decisions on offense. His good games come when his jumpshot is falling, and that's pretty much the one thing he does consistently well offensively is create space to get his jumpshot. That's actually fairly impressive given how awful he has looked off the dribble. But it is a skill that shouldn't be ignored: he's very good at creating his own jumpshot. The question is, can he be good enough as a shooter to make that a valuable skill?

They also raise the point that Reddish is long and skilled defensively, but they question whether he has any defensive versatility. He's not strong, and they could see him getting worked over by bigger/stronger wings in the NBA. This is one of the places that the Paul George comp may fall short the most: George is a tough defender even against bigger guys, whereas it isn't clear if Reddish can handle the physicality. His lack of comfort with physicality also appears on offense where he's easily dislodged of the ball off the dribble.

The author suggests that he wouldn't want to draft Reddish in the first round this year. But he acknowledges that Reddish WILL go in the lottery. One other interesting note on Reddish: the author suggests that Reddish might need to get his eyesight checked.



Yeah. Great find, CDu. These are all 18 year-old kids. Only thing is, Barrett plays like's he's 25; Zion, who looks 30, plays like he's 21; Reddish, on the other hand, plays like he's 15.

I have hopes for Reddish, but clearly this is a maturation process.

[CDu]

Yeah. Great find, CDu. These are all 18 year-old kids. Only thing is, Barrett plays like's he's 25; Zion, who looks 30, plays like he's 21; Reddish, on the other hand, plays like he's 15.

I have hopes for Reddish, but clearly this is a maturation process.

Thanks. And you're right, it should all be caveated with the point that it can be really hard to know where the player will end up. Paul George, for example, was playing against midmajor competition when he was a freshman. Kawhi Leonard wasn't nearly an NBA prospect at this age.

I think the big takeaway is:
1. Barrett - he's lived off being more physically advanced than his comp in high school and in college, and his skills are behind what you'd like from an elite prospect. Will he adapt and improve his skills when he's forced to face guys who are consistently as big and as (or more) athletic than him? No real way to know yet. Guys like Butler, George, DeRozan, and Leonard did it. That's what you are hoping he becomes with time. And it is worth noting that he's way ahead of where those guys were at the same age. The key is that those guys are now way ahead of where he is through a lot of work. Not saying he can't get there, and he's got time on his side. But it's going to take some work. I will say that he'll be helped by the NBA having better spacing. Defenses can't collapse the way they do in college, which will help. But he's also going to have more trouble beating his man in the NBA, where the athleticism and size is like night and day. So he's going to have to improve his right hand, his deception (he's got some of the same lack of guile that Grayson had, though not as much so), and his shooting.

2. Reddish has the height/length, defensive effort, and ability to get his shot off. His skills and on-ball IQ are just really low. If he can get stronger and more competent in his ballhandling and decisionmaking, he'd be an absolute stud. But the same could be said for guys like Gerald Green and Terrence Ross. That's not to say Reddish won't figure it out. But he will need a LOT of work. If he was a more consistent shooter, you'd feel good that he'd be at least a legit "3-and-D" wing, which is of huge value. But right now he's anything but a knockdown shooter. He'll go top-10 because (a) it's a weak draft and (b) he has elite potential. But he's got a long way to go to realize that potential.

3. Jones is everything you want from a point guard... except for perhaps the most important skill for a guard in today's NBA (shooting). He'd be a serviceable backup right now if he left, with the potential to develop that shot on the job. Or, he can return and try to improve his shot at Duke (especially with next year's team being lighter on ball-dominant perimeter players).

[Truth&Justise]

Something to keep in mind for Tre Jones: there aren't a lot of great point guards in this draft.

In the 2018 draft, there were 3 point guards taken in the lottery (4 if you count Luka Doncic), and 9 (or 10, with Doncic) in the first 34 picks.
In the 2017 draft, there were 4 point guards taken in the lottery and 7 in the first 34 picks.
In the 2016 draft, there were 3 point guards taken in the lottery and 6 in the first 34 picks.

(Side note, weird that the 34th pick has consistently been a point guard, which makes it a convenient cutoff point to make my argument)

This year, Ja Morant is near the top of the lottery. Then you have Darrius Garland, who will probably go in the lottery. After that...no sure-fire prospects.

So Tre would be competing with guys like Coby White, Ashton Hagans, and Ty Jerome to be the third best point guard in this draft. And odds are two or three of those guys will end up going in the first round.

I don't know how the 2020 draft shapes up for point guards, but the lack of elite competition at his position could mean a slightly inflated draft projection for this year, which could push him closer to leaving than staying

[johnb]

Interesting article. and the author seems to know his basketball.

Another key assertion:

11) So this doesn’t say good things about Reddish and it likely doesn’t say great things about Tre Jones either. The difference is that the risk/reward for Reddish suggests that Reddish should definitely declare, being that he’s a likely top 5 pick, and that Jones should go back to school, being that he may not end up in the first round.

In order to improve as players, going back to school would be beneficial for both. The level of improvement for this type of player tends to be much greater in college than the NBA, at least if they are the kind who is going to improve.

Josh Richardson, Matisse Thybulle, Shane Battier, Brandon Roy and Brent Barry were all players who would have been run out of the NBA had they entered the league after their freshman seasons, and they are a few of the many who are good examples of this fact.

This doesn't lead me to think they'll return, but it does fit my own bias (ie, if it's not obvious that you'll make it in the NBA, you're better off with another year in college).

[NSDukeFan]

Interesting article. and the author seems to know his basketball.

Another key assertion:

11) So this doesn’t say good things about Reddish and it likely doesn’t say great things about Tre Jones either. The difference is that the risk/reward for Reddish suggests that Reddish should definitely declare, being that he’s a likely top 5 pick, and that Jones should go back to school, being that he may not end up in the first round.

In order to improve as players, going back to school would be beneficial for both. The level of improvement for this type of player tends to be much greater in college than the NBA, at least if they are the kind who is going to improve.

Josh Richardson, Matisse Thybulle, Shane Battier, Brandon Roy and Brent Barry were all players who would have been run out of the NBA had they entered the league after their freshman seasons, and they are a few of the many who are good examples of this fact.

This doesn't lead me to think they'll return, but it does fit my own bias (ie, if it's not obvious that you'll make it in the NBA, you're better off with another year in college).

Who the heck is Matisse Thybulle?

[dukelifer]

Who the heck is Matisse Thybulle?

Not sure why he is in the list given as he still plays ball at Washington- known as a defensive stopper

[Kedsy]

Who the heck is Matisse Thybulle?

He plays for Washington and was defensive player of the year in the Pac 12 in 2018. This season, he's a senior averaging 3.5 steals per game and 2.2 blocks per game.

[CDu]

Not sure why he is in the list given as he still plays ball at Washington- known as a defensive stopper

Yeah, the guys on that site are very high on him as a prospect. But I agree it is preemptive to include him in a list of guys who were not chewed up and spit out by the NBA since he hasn’t actually played there yet.

[JasonEvans]

Who the heck is Matisse Thybulle?

As others have said, he plays for UDub. He is a 6-6 wing and is generally projected as a mid-2nd round pick. Putting him in a list with those other guys who were quite successful pros (other than Richardson, all of them were taken in the first half of the first round) seems strange.

[dukelifer]

This seems like as good a place as any to post this. It's relevant to DBR in that it is an independent site that does a great job on scouting, and they specifically tackle a couple of questions we've seen recently on DBR: should Jones go pro? where should Reddish be drafted? Note: this article was specifically written about the non-Zion Duke guys. Pretty much everyone agrees he's the #1 pick.

https://www.thestepien.com/2019/03/04/draft-notes-non-zion-duke-freshmen/

Summary of the article:

1. Barrett is a complicated NBA prospect. He's not overly athletic, not great at dribbling or deception, and not a good shooter, but is a high-volume shooter. That's a bad combination in today's NBA. And while not a liability on defense, he's not great on that end. Not that he doesn't have value, just that it's really hard to peg where he fits on a contending team in a salary capped sport. They do state that he is a hard worker, so it's hard to say where he'll end up skills wise down the road. But the questions they raise are legitimate NBA concerns in that, when he gets to the NBA, he won't be able to play bullyball against smaller, less athletic wings, which is where much of his success has come. Now it is not so much that they think he'll fall out of the top 2 or 3 picks mind you. He's going to go fairly shortly - if not immediately - after Zion. Not surprisingly, they are much higher on Barrett than either of the other two guys.

2. They don't care for Reddish. At all. The key paragraph is here:

Frankly, I think that pretty accurately sums it up. He just doesn't seem to play with great offensive awareness, and doesn't seem to make good decisions on offense. His good games come when his jumpshot is falling, and that's pretty much the one thing he does consistently well offensively is create space to get his jumpshot. That's actually fairly impressive given how awful he has looked off the dribble. But it is a skill that shouldn't be ignored: he's very good at creating his own jumpshot. The question is, can he be good enough as a shooter to make that a valuable skill?

They also raise the point that Reddish is long and skilled defensively, but they question whether he has any defensive versatility. He's not strong, and they could see him getting worked over by bigger/stronger wings in the NBA. This is one of the places that the Paul George comp may fall short the most: George is a tough defender even against bigger guys, whereas it isn't clear if Reddish can handle the physicality. His lack of comfort with physicality also appears on offense where he's easily dislodged of the ball off the dribble.

The author suggests that he wouldn't want to draft Reddish in the first round this year. But he acknowledges that Reddish WILL go in the lottery. One other interesting note on Reddish: the author suggests that Reddish might need to get his eyesight checked.

3. Tre Jones also gets somewhat panned. The section on Jones can be summarized here:


He notes that, because Jones is a good FT shooter (historically at least, and it's looking that way as the season goes on), there's reason for hope with his game. And that he could really use an extra year in college to improve his outside shot and half court offensive game.

The most interesting part of the discussion for me though is this:


Basically, nothing Earth-shattering here. I just thought it was really interesting as a breakdown of our guys. Ultimately, I'd expect all 4 to go pro, with Jones being the only slightly questionable one on the list. Jones is the only one with potential for upward mobility in returning (if he develops a perimeter shot, he's a lottery pick for his other attributes; without it, he's borderline 1st round material). Barrett and Reddish (the former because he's not going to gain anything by returning, the latter because "potential" is keeping his stock super high right now) should go pro without question.

I don’t disagree with much that is said - but rarely are 18 year old players fully developed. All can get much better than they are now and all will get stronger. I believe RJ is going to be good. He is a work in progress but I think he will put in the hours. Time will tell if he becomes an All Star. Both Cam and Tre have more holes in their games and the question is whether they can get better before the end of their first contract. Maybe. None of the three are great shooters - although Cam is streaky- and in the end their shooting will determine what sort of NBA careers they will have. And the end of his Freshman year- Tatum was a force. I would taken Freshman Tatum over all the current Freshman. He just showed more.

[JasonEvans]

I would taken Freshman Tatum over all the current Freshman.

All the current freshmen?!?! Even the injured ones?

Seeing as Tatum went #3 in what was considered a fairly good draft while RJ is projected 2 or 3 in what is considered a fairly weak draft (with Cam and Tre further back in the field), your statement just isn't all that controversial.

[UrinalCake]

This year, Ja Morant is near the top of the lottery. Then you have Darius Garland, who will probably go in the lottery. After that...no sure-fire prospects.

So Tre would be competing with guys like Coby White, Ashton Hagans, and Ty Jerome to be the third best point guard in this draft. And odds are two or three of those guys will end up going in the first round.

Not sure if you consider Romeo Langford to be a point guard, but I'd put him ahead of Tre on the draft board (even though Jones did clearly outplay him head to head. Also older guys like Markus Howard of Marquette and Carsen Edwards of Purdue, Shamorie Ponds from St. Johns, and Ky Bowman of BC are much better scorers than Jones. I guess it comes down to how much a team will value defense over offense for a late draft pick. I also disagree with the assessment that Tre's ONLY weakness is his three point shooting. His offensive game overall is weak, and against NBA defenders would be nonexistent.

[dukelifer]

All the current freshmen?!?! Even the injured ones?

Seeing as Tatum went #3 in what was considered a fairly good draft while RJ is projected 2 or 3 in what is considered a fairly weak draft (with Cam and Tre further back in the field), your statement just isn't all that controversial.

Zion will sell tickets so that is hard to pass up - but he too will need to develop a jumper.

[DukeTrinity11]

I don’t disagree with much that is said - but rarely are 18 year old players fully developed. All can get much better than they are now and all will get stronger. I believe RJ is going to be good. He is a work in progress but I think he will put in the hours. Time will tell if he becomes an All Star. Both Cam and Tre have more holes in their games and the question is whether they can get better before the end of their first contract. Maybe. None of the three are great shooters - although Cam is streaky- and in the end their shooting will determine what sort of NBA careers they will have. And the end of his Freshman year- Tatum was a force. I would taken Freshman Tatum over all the current Freshman. He just showed more.
Barrett, Bagley, Okafor and Zion have all been better than Tatum at Duke during their OAD year right unless I'm not understanding what you're saying?

[brevity]

ESPN: Missouri sophomore Jontay Porter suffers 2nd ACL tear (http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/26342851/mizzou-porter-re-tears-acl-missing-18-19)


Missouri sophomore big man Jontay Porter recently re-tore the ACL that caused him to miss the entire season, a school spokesman confirmed to ESPN on Saturday... He is ranked as the No. 3 center and No. 24 player overall in ESPN's rankings for this year's NBA draft.

The article reminds us that Jontay's older brother Michael was drafted by Denver last year despite having a back injury, and also tells us that they have two sisters with histories of multiple knee injuries.

[Phredd3]

The article reminds us that Jontay's older brother Michael was drafted by Denver last year despite having a back injury, and also tells us that they have two sisters with histories of multiple knee injuries.

Women are much more vulnerable to knee injuries than men.

[JasonEvans]

A few major updates:

Louisville's Jordan Nwora is "testing the waters" (http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/26381523/louisville-sophomore-nwora-test-draft-process). If he is dead set on being a first rounder then I think he comes back.

Syracuse's Tyus Battle is going into the draft (http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/26387699/syracuse-battle-leaving-start-next-chapter). He's a likely 2nd rounder.

Duke killer (in 2018) Shammorie Ponds of St John is turning pro (http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/26384988/st-john-junior-ponds-says-enter-nba-draft). My crystal ball says he goes in the 2nd round, but if he works out well, it is not impossible he could get picked in the 20s.

Lastly, when you have a moment I urge all of you to check out this article (http://www.espn.com/nba/insider/story/_/id/26371318/testing-nba-draft-waters-different-year) about the way "testing the waters" has changed this year. Kids can do a lot more with agents than they could in the past, but be careful because if you decide to return to school, you must pay the agent back and that could get to be expensive.

[wk2109]

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/26417235/unc-freshman-little-declares-nba-draft

*Nassir

[BD80]

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/26417235/unc-freshman-little-declares-nba-draft

*Nassir

This is an April's Fool joke, right?

Except for the part that reads "he will prepare for the draft immediately" - translation: "you won't see him anywhere near a classroom."

But that's how they do things at unc ...

[devildeac]

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/26417235/unc-freshman-little-declares-nba-draft

*Nassir


This is an April's Fool joke, right?

Except for the part that reads "he will prepare for the draft immediately" - translation: "you won't see him anywhere near a classroom."

But that's how they do things at unc ...

Well, it does originate from espn, the mothership of fools...

[plimnko]

Except for the part that reads "he will prepare for the draft immediately" - translation: "you won't see him anywhere near a classroom."


has he been spotted near one all year??

[pfrduke]

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/26417235/unc-freshman-little-declares-nba-draft

*Nassir


We've got a couple months until C2C, which feels like forever now that we've gotten a taste of Duke basketball. It's time to get some pie bets going! There were a few suggested in some of the other threads but many involved betting against our team, which of course met with resistance. So in honor of my complete and utter disdain for our friends down the road, I'll suggest a pie bet that Nassir Little does not go OAD this year. In other words, if he leaves for the NBA after one year, you win the bet. If he returns to school, I win the bet. If any of the following scenarios happen, we will call it a draw:

- he declares for the draft but goes undrafted
- he leaves school for any other reason
- he suffers a SEVERE injury that causes him to come back (there's some ambiguity in how we would define this, but I'm game to discuss if it actually happens)

Any takers?


I’ll take the bet on the original terms (not the Troublemaker modifications)


Looks like you got in first so I'll call it a handshake and we are on!

So UC, you’re owing me a pie unless somehow he gets passed on through both rounds. I would be more than willing to bet another pie that doesn’t happen.

[chrishoke]

Announces for the draft.

[CDu]

Announces for the draft.

See the early entry thread.

[UrinalCake]

So UC, you’re owing me a pie unless somehow he gets passed on through both rounds. I would be more than willing to bet another pie that doesn’t happen.

The link didn’t actually say that he had hired an agent, but I am willing to concede based on his comments that he is not coming back and also that he isn’t going undrafted. Congrats on your pie! I think this was less of a slam dunk win for you than most would have anticipated as the season progressed, and I enjoyed his failures even more knowing that a pie was on the line. My original assertion was that Roy doesn’t develop elite level players, and I still think that is true.

I don’t have the link to the pie place that we typically use but I will try to find it and send you a PM.

[TKG]

Love you Chrishoke but given today’s date and Ol Roy’s track record on such things, I am going to need a link.:)

[devildeac]

Love you Chrishoke but given today’s date and Ol Roy’s track record on such things, I am going to need a link.:)

From the Draft Early Entry thread:

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/26417235/unc-freshman-little-declares-nba-draft

Which now happens to be this thread as I see the threads have been merged. :D

[pfrduke]

The link didn’t actually say that he had hired an agent, but I am willing to concede based on his comments that he is not coming back and also that he isn’t going undrafted. Congrats on your pie! I think this was less of a slam dunk win for you than most would have anticipated as the season progressed, and I enjoyed his failures even more knowing that a pie was on the line. My original assertion was that Roy doesn’t develop elite level players, and I still think that is true.

I don’t have the link to the pie place that we typically use but I will try to find it and send you a PM.

I’m willing to wait until June if you need to see his name called to make it official.

I also agree that Roy’s misuse of a high level talent was enjoyable to watch this year, even if the outcome was (in my view, and backed by a pie) a forgone conclusion.

[gofurman]

When is last day to declare? What about last day to come back to school after testing waters?

[JetpackJesus]

This is an April's Fool joke, right?

Except for the part that reads "he will prepare for the draft immediately" - translation: "you won't see him anywhere near a classroom."

But that's how they do things at unc ...

Do they even have classrooms over there?

[JetpackJesus]

When is last day to declare? What about last day to come back to school after testing waters?

I believe the last day to declare is 4/21 this year. The deadline to withdraw is 5/29, although this year undrafted players can choose to return to school if they still have eligibility. The deadline for an undrafted player to return is the Monday following the draft.

[camion]

Do they even have classrooms over there?

Sure they do. They're quiet and dark. Great places to catch a nap undisturbed. :)

[MCFinARL]

A few major updates:

Louisville's Jordan Nwora is "testing the waters" (http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/26381523/louisville-sophomore-nwora-test-draft-process). If he is dead set on being a first rounder then I think he comes back.

Syracuse's Tyus Battle is going into the draft (http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/26387699/syracuse-battle-leaving-start-next-chapter). He's a likely 2nd rounder.

Duke killer (in 2018) Shammorie Ponds of St John is turning pro (http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/26384988/st-john-junior-ponds-says-enter-nba-draft). My crystal ball says he goes in the 2nd round, but if he works out well, it is not impossible he could get picked in the 20s.

Lastly, when you have a moment I urge all of you to check out this article (http://www.espn.com/nba/insider/story/_/id/26371318/testing-nba-draft-waters-different-year) about the way "testing the waters" has changed this year. Kids can do a lot more with agents than they could in the past, but be careful because if you decide to return to school, you must pay the agent back and that could get to be expensive.

For those interested in the new "testing the waters" policy who don't have paywall access to the article linked above, here is a link (https://ncaaorg.s3.amazonaws.com/enforcement/2019ENF_NBAMemo.pdf) to the NCAA memo on the subject.

[beach rev]

Coby White declares.

https://www.wralsportsfan.com/unc-freshman-coby-white-declares-for-nba-draft/18303229/

[CameronBornAndBred]

Coby White declares.

https://www.wralsportsfan.com/unc-freshman-coby-white-declares-for-nba-draft/18303229/

When was the last time Roy coached two OADs?

[flyingdutchdevil]

Coby White declares.

https://www.wralsportsfan.com/unc-freshman-coby-white-declares-for-nba-draft/18303229/

With or without an agent? Or does that matter?

All I need to know is whether this kid is coming back or not. I wouldn't mind seeing Little back because he was non-transformational player. Coby White is legit and one of the top 2 PGs in the ACC (along with Ty Jerome). I want that dude gone.

[CDu]

When was the last time Roy coached two OADs?

It has never happened before. He's only ever coached 3 one and dones to my knowledge prior to this year.

[907bluedevils]

Naz Reid from LSU going with an agent.

[gofurman]

Naz Reid from LSU going with an agent.

Help here w rules. Used to if you got an agent you were gone. I saw you could at least work w an agent now and still be eligible to return if you pay the agent back ? Is that how it works? And you can stay in for a day or two AFTER the draft and if not selected then decide to return ? Could someone help me understand the exact rules now - Thans in advance !!!

[BD80]

Coby White declares.

https://www.wralsportsfan.com/unc-freshman-coby-white-declares-for-nba-draft/18303229/

Wonder if this impacts Tre's decision. Probably moves him down at least one slot. Could really impact him as old school PGs (under 6' 6") aren't in vogue, so being the third or fourth "true" PG taken could be a 2nd round call.

Also humorous that Little and White wasted no time declaring, bet they don't ever see a classroom again (not that they ever saw one in chapel hill).

[907bluedevils]

Simi Shittu from Vandy entering the draft.

[dukelifer]

It has never happened before. He's only ever coached 3 one and dones to my knowledge prior to this year.

A few two and dones. That said- UNC will have a lot of new faces. We will see how well Roy molds a team of mostly youngsters.

[CDu]

A few two and dones. That said- UNC will have a lot of new faces. We will see how well Roy molds a team of mostly youngsters.

Maybe. He will have a bunch of vets, and likely will add a grad transfer or regular transfer. We will see how young they are.

[UrinalCake]

Wonder if this impacts Tre's decision. Probably moves him down at least one slot. Could really impact him as old school PGs (under 6' 6") aren't in vogue, so being the third or fourth "true" PG taken could be a 2nd round call.

I would assume that all of these point guards will be taken ahead of Tre:

- Ja Morant
- Darius Garland
- Coby White
- Romeo Langford (listed as a SG but I see him as a point in the NBA)
- Jarrett Culver (same with him)
- Carsen Edwards (really low on draft boards but that's insane, must have been before his breakout performance in the tourney)
- Ty Jerome (if he comes out)

Tre would be in the neighborhood of guys like Ashton Hagans (similarly excellent defender, a little longer and more athletic) and Ky Bowman (great scorer but older which is seen as a negative).

Also, how many NBA point guards are 6'6 or taller?

[CDu]

I would assume that all of these point guards will be taken ahead of Tre:

- Ja Morant
- Darius Garland
- Coby White
- Romeo Langford (listed as a SG but I see him as a point in the NBA)
- Jarrett Culver (same with him)
- Carsen Edwards (really low on draft boards but that's insane, must have been before his breakout performance in the tourney)
- Ty Jerome (if he comes out)

Tre would be in the neighborhood of guys like Ashton Hagans (similarly excellent defender, a little longer and more athletic) and Ky Bowman (great scorer but older which is seen as a negative).

Also, how many NBA point guards are 6'6 or taller?

I don’t see Culver at point at all. I don’t think that’s his game. And Edwards is a 6’1” SG, not a PG. he averaged fewer assists than turnovers.

[pfrduke]

I don’t see Culver at point at all. I don’t think that’s his game. And Edwards is a 6’1” SG, not a PG. he averaged fewer assists than turnovers.

Edwards is a classic college guard who probably doesn’t have an NBA future. There’s not a huge market for 6’1” shooting guards. He will get killed on defense and will be hard to generate enough offense against a flood of 6’4”-6’7” defenders to make up for it.

[UrinalCake]

I don’t see Culver at point at all. I don’t think that’s his game. And Edwards is a 6’1” SG, not a PG. he averaged fewer assists than turnovers.

You think an NBA team with a need at PG would draft Jones ahead of Edwards? But fair enough, take both of them out. That still makes Tre the fifth best PG prospect on the board. And that's before some random French guy pops up on everyone's radar at the combine and winds up going lotto.

[CDu]

You think an NBA team with a need at PG would draft Jones ahead of Edwards? But fair enough, take both of them out. That still makes Tre the fifth best PG prospect on the board. And that's before some random French guy pops up on everyone's radar at the combine and winds up going lotto.

Yes, I think a team looking for a PG would take Jones over Edwards. But yes, I don’t think Jones goes in the first round. I think he is the 4th PG (Langford also isn’t a PG) at best if Jerome goes pro.

[gofurman]

Xxxxx

[gofurman]

Help here w rules. Used to if you got an agent you were gone. I saw you could at least work w an agent now and still be eligible to return if you pay the agent back ? Is that how it works? And you can stay in for a day or two AFTER the draft and if not selected then decide to return ? Could someone help me understand the exact rules now - Thans in advance !!!

[UrinalCake]

^ I thought there was also a stipulation that only certain players identified as elite prospects were allowed to hire agents. Which makes absolutely no sense.

[brevity]

For those interested in the new "testing the waters" policy who don't have paywall access to the article linked above, here is a link (https://ncaaorg.s3.amazonaws.com/enforcement/2019ENF_NBAMemo.pdf) to the NCAA memo on the subject.


Help here w rules. Used to if you got an agent you were gone. I saw you could at least work w an agent now and still be eligible to return if you pay the agent back ? Is that how it works? And you can stay in for a day or two AFTER the draft and if not selected then decide to return ? Could someone help me understand the exact rules now - Thans in advance !!!


Help here w rules. Used to if you got an agent you were gone. I saw you could at least work w an agent now and still be eligible to return if you pay the agent back ? Is that how it works? And you can stay in for a day or two AFTER the draft and if not selected then decide to return ? Could someone help me understand the exact rules now - Thans in advance !!!

It’s weird how forum threads work.


Xxxxx

I don’t even know how to reply to this.

[MartyClark]

It’s weird how forum threads work.



I don’t even know how to reply to this.

With equal affection.

[BD80]

With equal affection.

That is such a slippery slope ...

[DavidBenAkiva]

I would assume that all of these point guards will be taken ahead of Tre:

- Ja Morant
- Darius Garland
- Coby White
- Romeo Langford (listed as a SG but I see him as a point in the NBA)
- Jarrett Culver (same with him)
- Carsen Edwards (really low on draft boards but that's insane, must have been before his breakout performance in the tourney)
- Ty Jerome (if he comes out)

Tre would be in the neighborhood of guys like Ashton Hagans (similarly excellent defender, a little longer and more athletic) and Ky Bowman (great scorer but older which is seen as a negative).

Also, how many NBA point guards are 6'6 or taller?

I think it's a stretch to call Langford and Culver point guards in the NBA. They are wings.

Morant, Garland, and White are all definitively ahead of Jones in the Draft Board. Ty Jerome is probably right there with Jones or slightly ahead as he has good size (6'5") for the position and excellent shooting. Jordan Bone of Tennessee, a junior, also declared for the NBA Draft. I expect that he is comparable to Jones as a PG prospect. I'm interested to see if Ashton Hagans of Kentucky will go into the draft as well. He has a similar profile as Jones but is bigger and longer but less of a facilitator. Both had extreme troubles shooting the ball this season and could boost their draft stock with a year of improved shooting in college (or tank it if they don't improve).

[JasonEvans]

Not that they know anything, but NBADraft.net no longer has Jones in their 2019 Mock. He is now #28, end of the first round, in their 2020 Mock. They were the most pessimistic on him recently. A couple weeks ago they had him around 10th in the 2nd round in 2019.

-Jason "It is clear that Tre's shooting struggles late in the year with teams daring him to shoot (VT paid the price) has impacted his draft stock" Evans

[ChillinDuke]

Not that they know anything, but NBADraft.net no longer has Jones in their 2019 Mock. He is now #28, end of the first round, in their 2020 Mock. They were the most pessimistic on him recently. A couple weeks ago they had him around 10th in the 2nd round in 2019.

-Jason "It is clear that Tre's shooting struggles late in the year with teams daring him to shoot (VT paid the price) has impacted his draft stock" Evans

If Tre comes back next year, it will be the best pie I never tasted.

There were moments this year when he was sublime, mostly on defense but a couple games on offense. If he can improve his shot, his offensive aggressiveness, and even incrementally improve his defense, oh man. I'm not sure how much more I could like him.

- Chillin

[rocketeli]

Tre Jones definitely needs to improve his shooting to be a legitimate NBA prospect. The question for him is where could he best accomplish this? Overseas would not be an option--overseas teams don't want American players for development purposes and it seems that once a player goes overseas the NBA pretty much writes him off. So it would be either college or the g league. He pretty much knows what he is getting at Duke, in terms of coaching style, expected teammates and competition, so that's a plus. The devil you know, so to speak. And if he could publicly construct a narrative of improvement, he actually might be able to increase his hype for next year. On the other hand, he would be limited by NCAA rules in terms of getting paid, workout restrictions, and the demands and distractions of actually having to stay eligible in school, all of which are not part of his primary life goals, perhaps. And if he didn't improve, he could drop off the NBA radar completely. If he went pro, he could concentrate completely in the off season on improving his shot and would have access (cough, cough) to modalities of performance enhancement that are problematic in the NCAA. But he would be taking a chance on getting into a situation where the team he signed with was committed to developing him versus the needs of the other developmental players, and what kind of style, teammates and coaching he would find on his g league team. Hopefully, he will get good advice, from people who know more about this than I do, and whatever decision he makes will work out for him.

[BD80]

If Tre comes back next year, it will be the best pie I never tasted.

... he was sublime, ... I'm not sure how much more I could like him.

- Chillin

KEY lime.

More sublime than sublime.

[Saratoga2]

Wonder if this impacts Tre's decision. Probably moves him down at least one slot. Could really impact him as old school PGs (under 6' 6") aren't in vogue, so being the third or fourth "true" PG taken could be a 2nd round call.

Also humorous that Little and White wasted no time declaring, bet they don't ever see a classroom again (not that they ever saw one in chapel hill).

I guess Steph Curry wouldn't be in vogue.

[UrinalCake]

Not that they know anything, but NBADraft.net no longer has Jones in their 2019 Mock. He is now #28, end of the first round, in their 2020 Mock. They were the most pessimistic on him recently. A couple weeks ago they had him around 10th in the 2nd round in 2019.

-Jason "It is clear that Tre's shooting struggles late in the year with teams daring him to shoot (VT paid the price) has impacted his draft stock" Evans

I doubt that NBADraft.net has any inside knowledge on what Tre has personally decided to do, but they likely have gotten information from NBA scouts/GM's regarding his draft stock and where he would be expected to go, and based on that they expect him to return to school. So that's good news for us, although they obviously could be wrong. If he thinks he could go late first round/early second round this year and he's still projected as an end of first round pick in 2020 then he might as well go now.

Getting Tre back would instantly change the outlook on next year's team. Everybody else would be made better on both offense and defense. Rocketeli laid out the pros and cons of his decision really well.

[BD80]

I guess Steph Curry wouldn't be in vogue.

reductio ad absurdum

Nor would the statement bear scrutiny with respect to any player with a single horn protruding from his forehead, or with a nickname that includes "freak"

[Acymetric]

I guess Steph Curry wouldn't be in vogue.


reductio ad absurdum

Nor would the statement bear scrutiny with respect to any player with a single horn protruding from his forehead, or with a nickname that includes "freak"

Yeah, Steph Curry was one of the most prolific scorers (and especially shooters) in NCAA history. Tre is many good things, but he...isn't that. His court vision and ball security I would expect to translate, but his lack of size and (relative) lack of upper-end athleticism may mean that his defense doesn't translate as well to the NBA game, where he will somewhat regularly need to defend guys bigger and faster than him.

It is hard to make it in the NBA as a guard without elite size/athleticism or elite shooting. Tre has neither, but if he can improve his shot (and there is no reason to think he can't) he can have a solid NBA career probably similar to what his brother is doing. Two relevant Duke comps for Jones would be to take Tyus without the shooting or Duval without the athleticism and project from there. Who would be Jones' closest active NBA comp? It is hard for me to think of one.

In any case, whether he is better off developing his shot in the G-League or as a deep bench player in the NBA or staying in college is up to him. My gut says college, but then I am biased ;)

[CameronBornAndBred]

In any case, whether he is better off developing his shot in the G-League or as a deep bench player in the NBA or staying in college is up to him. My gut says college, but then I am biased ;)
He'll sure get more looks during another year in college.

[Nugget]

Not surprisingly, given the impending hammer that has to come down in light of the not-denied-reporting that their head coach is on a wiretap talking about buying a recruit, LSU's Tremont Waters and Skylar Mays announced. I don't see how Jevonte Smart (the alleged subject of Wade's phone call) can possibly remain eligible or stay there either. And I wouldn't be surprised to see Emmitt Williams either declare or transfer. Have to believe LSU is a total tear-down.

Also, Harvard's Bryce Aiken declared, without an agent. I hope he comes back -- Amaker should have a very strong team next year if Aiken returns and Seth Towns is recovered from injury; Harvard could roll out a 10 man rotation of guys who have all played significant minutes (9 Juniors or Seniors), with substantial major conference talent -- 5 ESPN 4-star recruits and 3 more 3-stars.

[kako]

Who would be Jones' closest active NBA comp? It is hard for me to think of one.

I think of Rajon Rondo. But Tre is not yet Rajon Rondo, given Rondo rebounding, speed and *elite* defensive skills NBA-wise. Hopefully he can develop his shot, either at Duke or in the association. Rondo has done it later in his career.

9F

[JasonEvans]

I think of Rajon Rondo. But Tre is not yet Rajon Rondo, given Rondo rebounding, speed and *elite* defensive skills NBA-wise. Hopefully he can develop his shot, either at Duke or in the association. Rondo has done it later in his career.

Rondo is 6-1 with a 6-9 wingspan. Everything I've seen indicates Tre is 6-2 or 6-3 with a 6-4 or 6-5 wingspan. He isn't even in the same ballpark as Rondo in that category, which is a huge part of Rondo's D and his rebounding.

[BD80]

Carson Edwards from Purdue in draft and hiring agent

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/ncaabk/edwards-ends-purdue-career-declares-for-nba-draft-with-agent/ar-BBVHImD?ocid=spartanntp

[scottdude8]

Carson Edwards from Purdue in draft and hiring agent

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/ncaabk/edwards-ends-purdue-career-declares-for-nba-draft-with-agent/ar-BBVHImD?ocid=spartanntp

Good news for every other team in the country. If Edwards came back Purdue would be returning the core of the team that was a second away from the Final Four, and would’ve made the Big Ten a monster three way race.

[Dukehky]

Cam at the Lakers Jazz game with Rich Paul tonight.

Don't think we're gonna see the sophomore year for ole Cam.

[BD80]

Cam at the Lakers Jazz game with Rich Paul tonight.

Don't think we're gonna see the sophomore year for ole Cam.

Sigh. No pretense of finishing the semester?

[arnie]

Sigh. No pretense of finishing the semester?

Are we sure he started the semester and why would an OAD bother?

[dukelifer]

Cam at the Lakers Jazz game with Rich Paul tonight.

Don't think we're gonna see the sophomore year for ole Cam.

Maybe for a term paper? Seriously- Cam will be drafted but his journey in the NBA is very uncertain. He is a prime example of a kid that needs a year or two to mature. It is all up to him as to whether he will put in the work and much of it will be on him. The distractions are many. I really have no idea how it will go for him. RJ and Zion will likely be outstanding as RJ is driven and Zion is Zion.

[HereBeforeCoachK]

Good news for every other team in the country. If Edwards came back Purdue would be returning the core of the team that was a second away from the Final Four, and would’ve made the Big Ten a monster three way race.

That dude's a baller.....Steph Curry range........even more energetic it seems.

[BeachBlueDevil]

Cam at the Lakers Jazz game with Rich Paul tonight.

Don't think we're gonna see the sophomore year for ole Cam.


Ugh.... Rich Paul & Klutch Sports Management. I'm not a big fan of what is essentially LeBron's agency and his way to ultimately tamper but with Paul being the intermediary.... That said, maybe with this connection we'll see Cam in Space Jam 2 with LeBron.

[FerryFor50]

Maybe for a term paper? Seriously- Cam will be drafted but his journey in the NBA is very uncertain. He is a prime example of a kid that needs a year or two to mature. It is all up to him as to whether he will put in the work and much of it will be on him. The distractions are many. I really have no idea how it will go for him. RJ and Zion will likely be outstanding as RJ is driven and Zion is Zion.

I don't understand why people keep thinking this about Cam.

He definitely showed flashes of his potential. And with a full year to focus on only basketball, under the tutelage of NBA coaches and players, he'll be fine.

He might not play a ton in his first year, but that will hinge solely on where he ends up being drafted.

Cam is smart for leaving after a year. If he sticks around, the warts in his game potentially become bigger and he might fall farther in the draft.

The only players that should be sticking around for another year or two are kids that are borderline first/second rounders or risk going undrafted. That's why it made more sense for Tre Duval to stick around last year and Tre this year. Cam is a lock for top 15 in the draft.

[flyingdutchdevil]

Ugh... Rich Paul & Klutch Sports Management. I'm not a big fan of what is essentially LeBron's agency and his way to ultimately tamper but with Paul being the intermediary... That said, maybe with this connection we'll see Cam in Space Jam 2 with LeBron.

This was destiny. Pre Cam selecting Duke, he was photographed having lunch in LA with Paul and Lebron (legal as I assumed Cam paid). Paul and Lebron have wanted Cam for a while.

[scottdude8]

I don't understand why people keep thinking this about Cam.

He definitely showed flashes of his potential. And with a full year to focus on only basketball, under the tutelage of NBA coaches and players, he'll be fine.

He might not play a ton in his first year, but that will hinge solely on where he ends up being drafted.

Cam is smart for leaving after a year. If he sticks around, the warts in his game potentially become bigger and he might fall farther in the draft.

The only players that should be sticking around for another year or two are kids that are borderline first/second rounders or risk going undrafted. That's why it made more sense for Tre Duval to stick around last year and Tre this year. Cam is a lock for top 15 in the draft.

Amen to all of this. In the OAD/early entry era I’ve made a conscious decision that I will never begrudge someone who’s essentially guaranteed to be a first round pick for leaving early. The reasons for doing that have been discussed ad nauseum. So Cam leaving early won’t irk me... but Frank Jackson, Gary and Trevon were a tad frustrating.

For Cam specifically, he got a lot of unnecessary criticism on this board throughout the year. In my eyes a lot of his awkwardness and lack of “basketball IQ” people cited was impacted a ton by him taking on a role he wasn’t used to, alongside that role fluctuating a ton with all of the injuries. But you can’t teach his size and length, combined with his defensive prowess (people keep forgetting that Cam played great defense even when he was a bit lost on offense). And with a focused and well defined 3 and D role I think he’ll flourish.

[Matches]

I don't understand why people keep thinking this about Cam.

He definitely showed flashes of his potential. And with a full year to focus on only basketball, under the tutelage of NBA coaches and players, he'll be fine.

He might not play a ton in his first year, but that will hinge solely on where he ends up being drafted.

Cam is smart for leaving after a year. If he sticks around, the warts in his game potentially become bigger and he might fall farther in the draft.

The only players that should be sticking around for another year or two are kids that are borderline first/second rounders or risk going undrafted. That's why it made more sense for Tre Duval to stick around last year and Tre this year. Cam is a lock for top 15 in the draft.

I think sometimes people fall into the trap of thinking of these guys like entrees in the oven. If you take them out of the oven (Duke) too soon, they're ruined. Cam will continue to develop whether he is at Duke or in the NBA. For most of these guys it's about maximizing draft position, and Cam is already pretty close to maxed out. He gone, and best of luck to him.

[FerryFor50]

I think sometimes people fall into the trap of thinking of these guys like entrees in the oven. If you take them out of the oven (Duke) too soon, they're ruined. Cam will continue to develop whether he is at Duke or in the NBA. For most of these guys it's about maximizing draft position, and Cam is already pretty close to maxed out. He gone, and best of luck to him.

I think it’s simpler than that - people long for the days where players stayed for 4 years, and they want those days back, no matter if it’s good for the players or not.

[Dukehk]

Kansas’s Dedric Lawson has declared for the draft and looks permanently gone from Lawrence.

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/26470444/kansas-forward-lawson-entering-nba-draft

I wonder what effect this has on Hurts decision. Hopefully the train wreck of a season coupled with rule breaking allegations will deter him from considering ku.

[jjc92]

Kansas’s Dedric Lawson has declared for the draft and looks permanently gone from Lawrence.

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/26470444/kansas-forward-lawson-entering-nba-draft

I wonder what effect this has on Hurts decision. Hopefully the train wreck of a season coupled with rule breaking allegations will deter him from considering ku.

Can a more basketball savvy mind give some info as to why he’s so low on the nba prospect list? He averaged a double double in a power conference and hit 40% of his threes as a 6’9 big man. He was a pretty good passer too, from the games that I saw.

[Dukehk]

Can a more basketball savvy mind give some info as to why he’s so low on the nba prospect list? He averaged a double double in a power conference and hit 40% of his threes as a 6’9 big man. He was a pretty good passer too, from the games that I saw.

Alarmingly unathletic? Not to mention he is an old man by nba draft standards!

I can see him having a solid pro career though. Similar to the morris twins before him.

[scottdude8]

Kansas’s Dedric Lawson has declared for the draft and looks permanently gone from Lawrence.

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/26470444/kansas-forward-lawson-entering-nba-draft

I wonder what effect this has on Hurts decision. Hopefully the train wreck of a season coupled with rule breaking allegations will deter him from considering ku.

His bros decision to transfer portended this decision. Kansas could be in for another down year if they don’t hit on one of these late recruits.

[MChambers]

For Maryland, Jalen Smith, a talented big, is not even testing the waters. I'm surprised by this: https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2019/04/08/jalen-smith-will-return-his-sophomore-season-with-maryland-basketball/?utm_term=.21235cbb062d

[dukelifer]

I don't understand why people keep thinking this about Cam.

He definitely showed flashes of his potential. And with a full year to focus on only basketball, under the tutelage of NBA coaches and players, he'll be fine.

He might not play a ton in his first year, but that will hinge solely on where he ends up being drafted.

Cam is smart for leaving after a year. If he sticks around, the warts in his game potentially become bigger and he might fall farther in the draft.

The only players that should be sticking around for another year or two are kids that are borderline first/second rounders or risk going undrafted. That's why it made more sense for Tre Duval to stick around last year and Tre this year. Cam is a lock for top 15 in the draft.

Cam is smart for leaving because he showed enough and he will be drafted in the first round. The issue is not that- the issue is his game. He is a talent- we have seen the evidence- but right now- he has a very long way to go to realize that talent, fully. One may think he will get tutelage of NBA coaches- but I think the reality is much different. Again, we will see if he will put in the off season work.

[scottdude8]

For Maryland, Jalen Smith, a talented big, is not even testing the waters. I'm surprised by this: https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2019/04/08/jalen-smith-will-return-his-sophomore-season-with-maryland-basketball/?utm_term=.21235cbb062d

Very surprising indeed. I’ll be curious what Bruno Fernando decides. If he returns, assuming Anthony Cowan comes back too, they’re the third best team in the B1G and probably a top 15 team to start the year. Even without Fernando, they’re still a B1G contender with Smith back.

[JasonEvans]

Very surprising indeed. I’ll be curious what Bruno Fernando decides. If he returns, assuming Anthony Cowan comes back too, they’re the third best team in the B1G and probably a top 15 team to start the year. Even without Fernando, they’re still a B1G contender with Smith back.

Why are ya'll surprised? Smith was generally projected in the 2020 draft and even there he is a back half of the first round kind of kid. He had flashes, for sure, but would not have been a lock for the first round and (as we have seen with Tre) in a case like there is plenty of incentive to come back.

I will say I could have seen him declaring and doing some workouts, just to see if he began to wow folks and got a guarantee or more buzz, but it isn't like a kid projected to go in the top 20 just pulled out.

Also, there has to be close to a zero percent chance Fernando comes back. Dude is a likely lottery pick, isn't he?

-Jason "mark it down-- Duke at Maryland in DC next year in the challenge... I can sense it" Evans

[MChambers]

Why are ya'll surprised? Smith was generally projected in the 2020 draft and even there he is a back half of the first round kind of kid. He had flashes, for sure, but would not have been a lock for the first round and (as we have seen with Tre) in a case like there is plenty of incentive to come back.

I will say I could have seen him declaring and doing some workouts, just to see if he began to wow folks and got a guarantee or more buzz, but it isn't like a kid projected to go in the top 20 just pulled out.

-Jason "Also, there has to be close to a zero percent chance Fernando comes back. Dude is a likely lottery pick, isn't he?" Evans

Earlier in the year, he was projected to be a lottery pick. Plus, he's a fairly agile big with a three point show. Sort of a lesser Jaren Jackson, if will.

Unlike you, I don't follow the projections very closely, so I was surprised he isn't even testing the waters.

[scottdude8]

Why are ya'll surprised? Smith was generally projected in the 2020 draft and even there he is a back half of the first round kind of kid. He had flashes, for sure, but would not have been a lock for the first round and (as we have seen with Tre) in a case like there is plenty of incentive to come back.

I will say I could have seen him declaring and doing some workouts, just to see if he began to wow folks and got a guarantee or more buzz, but it isn't like a kid projected to go in the top 20 just pulled out.

Also, there has to be close to a zero percent chance Fernando comes back. Dude is a likely lottery pick, isn't he?

-Jason "mark it down-- Duke at Maryland in DC next year in the challenge... I can sense it" Evans

Fair enough... I'm surprised that he didn't at least test the waters given his 5-star hype, combined with the fact that Maryland doesn't have the best track record at keeping NBA caliber talent around very long. So it's less that I'm surprised he's coming back and more that I'm surprised he didn't at least test. He's so athletic that he's the type of guy who might've graded out very well at the combine and gone up some draft boards.

P.S. With Duke facing MSU in the Champions Classic for a rematch, I'm putting my money on us facing Michigan in the B1G-ACC Challenge, especially with all the Fab Five comparisons that got drubbed up in the media this year. With Michigan back amongst CBB elite that would be a great rivalry to reestablish from ESPNs POV, no?

[freshmanjs]

Fair enough... I'm surprised that he didn't at least test the waters given his 5-star hype, combined with the fact that Maryland doesn't have the best track record at keeping NBA caliber talent around very long. So it's less that I'm surprised he's coming back and more that I'm surprised he didn't at least test. He's so athletic that he's the type of guy who might've graded out very well at the combine and gone up some draft boards.

P.S. With Duke facing MSU in the Champions Classic for a rematch, I'm putting my money on us facing Michigan in the B1G-ACC Challenge, especially with all the Fab Five comparisons that got drubbed up in the media this year. With Michigan back amongst CBB elite that would be a great rivalry to reestablish from ESPNs POV, no?

Duke is playing Kansas in Champions Classic.

[MCFinARL]

Are we sure he started the semester and why would an OAD bother?

He has to have started the semester because you have to be enrolled in school to play. My impression (based on absolutely no inside knowledge) is that Duke strongly encourages their short-term players to complete the semesters they have begun before leaving school [which I think affects Duke's APR], and most of them have done so. I don't suppose they could force Cam or anyone else to stay once the season is over, though.


Maybe for a term paper? Seriously- Cam will be drafted but his journey in the NBA is very uncertain. He is a prime example of a kid that needs a year or two to mature. It is all up to him as to whether he will put in the work and much of it will be on him. The distractions are many. I really have no idea how it will go for him. RJ and Zion will likely be outstanding as RJ is driven and Zion is Zion.

Given the way NBA player selection goes, Cam may have very little choice. While it might be easier for him to improve his game in college (that would depend on where he ended up and what would be most comfortable and motivating for him), the trade off is that coming out after two years he would be seen has having less potential for upside improvement. So his best shot is probably to go now while the "potential" factor is the highest.

[arnie]

Why are ya'll surprised? Smith was generally projected in the 2020 draft and even there he is a back half of the first round kind of kid. He had flashes, for sure, but would not have been a lock for the first round and (as we have seen with Tre) in a case like there is plenty of incentive to come back.

I will say I could have seen him declaring and doing some workouts, just to see if he began to wow folks and got a guarantee or more buzz, but it isn't like a kid projected to go in the top 20 just pulled out.

Also, there has to be close to a zero percent chance Fernando comes back. Dude is a likely lottery pick, isn't he?

-Jason "mark it down-- Duke at Maryland in DC next year in the challenge... I can sense it" Evans

Yep, will be shocked if it’s not Duke at Maryland. Who, in addition to K, will bear the brunt of all the profanity?

[scottdude8]

Duke is playing Kansas in Champions Classic.

Oh shoot, thanks... must’ve looked at an old listing or something. Still think it’s more likely we play a Michigan school than Maryland, I’ve gotta think K would do everything he could behind the scenes to prevent that and the ensuing chaos. But all speculation on my end.

[devildeac]

Oh shoot, thanks... must’ve looked at an old listing or something. Still think it’s more likely we play a Michigan school than Maryland, I’ve gotta think K would do everything he could behind the scenes to prevent that and the ensuing chaos. But all speculation on my end.

Sent the cheats up there and let murlin's classless fans chant at one/all their players and print similar t-shirts.

[dukelifer]

Hunter just made himself a ton of money with that performance. He could be a top 5 pick.

[arnie]

Hunter just made himself a ton of money with that performance. He could be a top 5 pick.

From RCSI rating of 74 out of HS. Credit to UVA player development.

[dukelifer]

From RCSI rating of 74 out of HS. Credit to UVA player development.

A bit like Kawhi Leonard - sometimes players get better after high school and some hit their peak in high school.

[devilnfla]

Hunter just made himself a ton of money with that performance. He could be a top 5 pick.

Any chance Kyle Guy leaves for the draft?

[JasonEvans]

Any chance Kyle Guy leaves for the draft?

Not likely, I suspect. Guy is 6-3 with a 6-5 wingspan and doesn't exactly have NBA athleticism. He can shoot, but isn't a PG and would probably really struggle to guard NBA SGs who are generally 6-5 and up.

But, Ty Jerome and Hunter will both likely go into the draft. Hunter is a mid-high lottery guy. Jerome is probably late first or early second.

I'm guessing next year's UVA starting lineup will likely be Clark, Guy, Key, Diatike, and Huff. Virginia really only went 8 depe this year so it is hard to say which of the bench guys will step up to play a role. UVA also has a pair of top 60 recruits, one is a center (and with Diatike and Huff, they don't really have many post minutes available). The other is SG Casey Morsell, who seems as good a pick as anyone for the 6th man role (they probably have a redshirt or transfer I am forgetting about).

-Jason "if Jerome joins Hunter in the draft, I suspect UVA will only be a top 15ish kinda team coming into the season... if Jerome comes back they are top 3, maybe #1" Evans

[Saratoga2]

From RCSI rating of 74 out of HS. Credit to UVA player development.

Tony Bennett just keeps on bringing players along. De'Andre Hunter is one example of that development but Mamadi Diakete could well be next years star. Braxton Key is showing signs. UVA has to be looked at as one of the premier programs in college basketball and should remain a top ACC team going forward.

[dukelifer]

Any chance Kyle Guy leaves for the draft?

I doubt it. Great college player but not enough size or athleticism for the next level. Kid can shoot but if he was 6 5” he might have a chance.

[BD80]

Any chance Kyle Guy leaves for the draft?

Aren't he and Jerome seventh year seniors?

[CDu]

Aren't he and Jerome seventh year seniors?

Actually true juniors. Same class as Bolden/DeLaurier/White. They just have played major minutes from day one, so they seem older.

[flyingdutchdevil]

Aren't he and Jerome seventh year seniors?

Ah yes. The London Perrantes phenomenon. Kihei Clark will likely be that guy in 6 years.

[CameronBornAndBred]

This was destiny. Pre Cam selecting Duke, he was photographed having lunch in LA with Paul and Lebron (legal as I assumed Cam paid). Paul and Lebron have wanted Cam for a while.

Wasn't Paul sitting with James at the UVA game?

[scottdude8]

Ah yes. The London Perrantes phenomenon. Kihei Clark will likely be that guy in 6 years.

Wisconsin is the worst with this. They ALWAYS have a 6-foot-10 to 7-foot center with solid ballhandling skills and fundamental who can normally make the outside shot. The fact that they all look quite similar doesn't help. If you didn't closely follow the B1G you might think Jon Leuer was STILL playing for the Badgers.

[Acymetric]

I think sometimes people fall into the trap of thinking of these guys like entrees in the oven. If you take them out of the oven (Duke) too soon, they're ruined. Cam will continue to develop whether he is at Duke or in the NBA. For most of these guys it's about maximizing draft position, and Cam is already pretty close to maxed out. He gone, and best of luck to him.

I think there is a little more to it than that (although this doesn't apply to Cam, who is going to get drafted high and should go).

In some cases, taking them out of the oven (any school, not just Duke) too soon means they aren't ready, and get drummed out of the league before they have the chance to develop into a player that can stick, and once you're out you're pretty much out because teams are going to go for the younger version of you over the journeyman in a great many cases. Another year or two developing in college might mean sticking at the end of a bench playing spot minutes while developing into a journeyman backup rather than getting sent off to the G-League and eventually going overseas or leaving your playing career behind entirely.

[Matches]

In some cases, taking them out of the oven (any school, not just Duke) too soon means they aren't ready, and get drummed out of the league before they have the chance to develop into a player that can stick, and once you're out you're pretty much out because teams are going to go for the younger version of you over the journeyman in a great many cases. Another year or two developing in college might mean sticking at the end of a bench playing spot minutes while developing into a journeyman backup rather than getting sent off to the G-League and eventually going overseas or leaving your playing career behind entirely.

I appreciate that this is in theory possible. I'm not sure we really see it a lot in practice though. The example everyone seems to want to use is William Avery, who (a) was 20 years ago man I am old, and (b) didn't get better during his three years in the NBA. Maybe he would've developed differently at Duke, maybe not - that's unknowable, and it's pretty much always unknowable.

[richardjackson199]

Hunter just made himself a ton of money with that performance. He could be a top 5 pick.

Could Diakite test the waters this year? He has been so good for them. It seemed to help Duke in Charlottesville when they lost Diakite early after he banged his head with a teammate. (It also seemed to help that we couldn't miss from 3).

[SavDukeGrad]

Could Diakite test the waters this year? He has been so good for them. It seemed to help Duke in Charlottesville when they lost Diakite early after he banged his head with a teammate. (It also seemed to help that we couldn't miss from 3).

One of our UVA friends who posts here (apologies, can’t remember who) said a week or two ago that he wouldn’t be surprised if Diakite tested the waters since he had such a good tournament and had improved so much.

[richardjackson199]

My theory for why we haven't heard yet from Zion, RJ, and Cam:

We've seen many times recently that at least one of our top OAD's delays their announcement to finish writing up their "decision to turn pro" announcement as part of their UWC course. These articles have then been published in either USA Today or the Player's Tribune in some cases.

I expect Zion and maybe RJ too will come out with an article like that. And we know Cam is gone, but the 3 of them are probably all waiting to declare together.

Wendell last year teased that he was actually thinking about returning. I never even considered it as a possibility or got my hopes up. I'm sure the thought crosses their mind. But these 3 are 100.0% gone. I think they're just writing up their announcements, selecting agents, letting shoe companies bid, etc.

But next year should be fun and different. And I appreciate everything Zion, RJ, and Cam gave to Duke. It was a fun and memorable team. Best of luck to them in the league.

[UrinalCake]

Last week it came out that Guy is engaged and getting married this summer but that he and his fiancée were told by the NCAA to take down their wedding registry because it was a potential violation. So maybe he’ll be forced to turn pro just so that he can receive his crystal picture frames and Calphalon nonstick frying pans from Bed, Bath and Beyond.

(Yes, this post is a joke)

[richardjackson199]

The Knicks with Kyrie, Durant, and Zion could be interesting.

Long way to go for that to happen, but it could happen.

[Truth&Justise]

Last week it came out that Guy is engaged and getting married this summer but that he and his fiancée were told by the NCAA to take down their wedding registry because it was a potential violation. So maybe he’ll be forced to turn pro just so that he can receive his crystal picture frames and Calphalon nonstick frying pans from Bed, Bath and Beyond.

(Yes, this post is a joke)

Actually, the NCAA responded that there was no rule preventing a wedding registry, and that Guy had received bad advice from UVA's compliance office.

Article explaining it here (https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2019/04/04/kyle-guy-his-fiancee-say-they-were-told-their-wedding-registry-violated-ncaa-rules/?utm_term=.703d6a9c41df).

[SavDukeGrad]

My theory for why we haven't heard yet from Zion, RJ, and Cam:

We've seen many times recently that at least one of our top OAD's delays their announcement to finish writing up their "decision to turn pro" announcement as part of their UWC course. These articles have then been published in either USA Today or the Player's Tribune in some cases.

I expect Zion and maybe RJ too will come out with an article like that. And we know Cam is gone, but the 3 of them are probably all waiting to declare together.

Wendell last year teased that he was actually thinking about returning. I never even considered it as a possibility or got my hopes up. I'm sure the thought crosses their mind. But these 3 are 100.0% gone. I think they're just writing up their announcements, selecting agents, letting shoe companies bid, etc.

But next year should be fun and different. And I appreciate everything Zion, RJ, and Cam gave to Duke. It was a fun and memorable team. Best of luck to them in the league.

Well they’ve also been busy, traveling, and out of town. We know Zion was in Minneapolis on at least Friday and Saturday receiving NPOY awards. And Cam was in LA. I have always gotten the feeling that Duke helps craft their exit declarations, so maybe they just haven’t had time to consult with their families, coaches, and the powers that be.

And it has always seemed a little distasteful to me when players declare immediately after they lose in the NCAA tournament (like Nassir Little) - whether true or not, that makes it look like that’s all they were thinking about imo. I like that our players have waited until after the Final Four.


FWIW I believe Zion and R.J. have both been invited to the Wooden Award ceremony in LA this week.

[UrinalCake]

Actually, the NCAA responded that there was no rule preventing a wedding registry, and that Guy had received bad advice from UVA's compliance office.

That’s great news for Guy! I am relieved to hear that the happy couple will be able to pick out some expensive china and flatware that they will never use for their entire life.

[richardjackson199]

The Knicks with Kyrie, Durant, and Zion could be interesting.

Long way to go for that to happen, but it could happen.

Zion should just test the waters and wait and see who wins the NBA draft lottery on May 14. He could actually do that. Just not hire an agent, and then if he doesn't like the team who wins the lottery he could return to Duke for year 2 and try again next year. They have until 10 days after the end of the combine in Mid-May to decide to return to school.

I know, I know. It possibly makes sense to go ahead and get the $100 Million shoe deal now and get his NBA rookie contract rolling. ;)

But how awesome would that be?

Fingers crossed LOL.

Pipe dream over.

[UrinalCake]

PJ Washington gone, with agent. No surprise there. He is one of the few examples I can think of for a projected late first round pick who returned to school and actually improved his stock.

[flyingdutchdevil]

PJ Washington gone, with agent. No surprise there. He is one of the few examples I can think of for a projected late first round pick who returned to school and actually improved his stock.

Yeah. Usually goes the other way around, Duke included.

[Furniture]

Don’t our guys usually wait to declare until after the tournament.

[freshmanjs]

Don’t our guys usually wait to declare until after the tournament.

No. Some of them have declared within a week of our tournament exit. Bagley, Tatum, Giles, Rivers all declared in March. Ingram declared the day of the championship.

[907bluedevils]

Iggy Brazdeikis going with an agent.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Don’t our guys usually wait to declare until after the tournament.

Well, the tournament had been over for nearly 17 hours, so...

[scottdude8]

Iggy Brazdeikis going with an agent.

Well crap. That makes me super sad. So much for My dream of Michigan and Duke in the top 5 all year...

[scottdude8]

Iggy Brazdeikis going with an agent.

For more clarity: Iggy, Jordan Poole and Charles Matthews have all declared (https://mgoblog.com/content/matthews-brazdeikis-poole-draft-process). The fact that the official Michigan press release notes that just because they're "signing with an agent" doesn't necessarily mean they're 100% gone anymore leaves the door open that they could return. But from the sounds of the quotes Iggy and Charles and definitely gone, with Jordan slightly more up in the air.

Ugh. I was already having a crappy day at work, and this just made it a crappy day overall :(

[richardjackson199]

Jared Harper from Auburn is going pro:

https://247sports.com/college/auburn/Article/Auburn-point-guard-Jared-Harper-plans-to-head-to-NBA-skip-senior-season-131054594/

[scottdude8]

Not sure if this was said yet but Grant Williams is "testing the waters" (https://247sports.com/college/tennessee/Article/Tennessee-Vols-Basketball-Grant-Williams-announces-NBA-Draft-decision-131039422/).

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

This time of year, it always seems there are twice as many early entries as there are draft picks in both rounds. Sheesh.

That's a LOT of misinformation.

[Truth&Justise]

This time of year, it always seems there are twice as many early entries as there are draft picks in both rounds. Sheesh.

That's a LOT of misinformation.

Well, a good number are declaring so they can participate in workouts and get feedback. Many will come back to school. Others will declare even if they know they won't be drafted; their plan is to start a pro career even if not in the NBA. So it's not just foolish players being misled.

[DukeTrinity11]

If you're signing with an agent, there is zero possibility that you return right?

I take it Iggy, Harper and Poole are gone.

[freshmanjs]

If you're signing with an agent, there is zero possibility that you return right?

I take it Iggy, Harper and Poole are gone.

No, you can sign with an agent and come back now.

[proelitedota]

Ashton Hagans is returning. Makes sense since he is very similar to Tre.

https://www.instagram.com/p/BwDQaATlc8k/?utm_source=ig_share_sheet&igshid=28sup5lnadju

[ChillinDuke]

Last week it came out that Guy is engaged and getting married this summer but that he and his fiancée were told by the NCAA to take down their wedding registry because it was a potential violation. So maybe he’ll be forced to turn pro just so that he can receive his crystal picture frames and Calphalon nonstick frying pans from Bed, Bath and Beyond.

(Yes, this post is a joke)

This is ridiculous. I can't believe you'd post such misinformation.

Guy and his fiancee were registered at Crate and Barrel, for Pete's sake. :D

- Chillin

[proelitedota]

What's taking RJ, Cam, and Zion so long... Declare and get it over with!

[NSDukeFan]

What's taking RJ, Cam, and Zion so long... Declare and get it over with!

Or ... come back and get the band back together for another round, with some more depth?
🙂

[907bluedevils]

Kabengele of FSU hiring an agent.

[CDu]

Kabengele of FSU hiring an agent.

Just to be clear, “hiring an agent” is no longer officially code for “gone and not coming back.” This year, players can hire agents to go through the water testing process without compromising their eligibility.

[moonpie23]

go ahead and get the $100 Million shoe deal now and get his NBA rookie contract rolling. ;)

Fingers crossed LOL.

Pipe dream over.

why do you do think it will be so low??

[richardjackson199]

why do you do think it will be so low??

I don't know much about it. I thought $100 million was pretty good for a shoe deal. What number is he expected to get from 1 shoe contract?

[-jk]

I don't know much about it. I thought $100 million was pretty good for a shoe deal. What number is he expected to get from 1 shoe contract?

How high can Nike go to keep him in?

It'd be really embarrassing to Nike if he went elsewhere...

-jk

[dukelifer]

How high can Nike go to keep him in?

It'd be really embarrassing to Nike if he went elsewhere...

-jk

Jordan is at $110M - Lebron is at $32M. Zion’s will be big but $100M is a lot.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/kurtbadenhausen/2017/06/09/the-nbas-biggest-shoe-deals/#62b9331f1520

[SlapTheFloor]

Jordan is at $110M - Lebron is at $32M. Zion’s will be big but $100M is a lot.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/kurtbadenhausen/2017/06/09/the-nbas-biggest-shoe-deals/#62b9331f1520

Yeah, but that's per year.

[JetpackJesus]

Just to be clear, “hiring an agent” is no longer officially code for “gone and not coming back.” This year, players can hire agents to go through the water testing process without compromising their eligibility.

So what is unclear to me from everything I've read about the new rules is whether a player who hires an agent: (a) must remain in the draft and go undrafted in order to return to college or (b) can withdraw from the draft by the deadline in the usual manner.

Does anyone know what the deal is in that scenario?

[frb]

hagans back to kentucky. they have a nice group even if herro declares for the nba

guards
ashton hagans soph cg
tyrese maxey fr cg
emmanuel quickley soph pg
jemarl baker jr r-soph g/f
zan payne r-fr g/f

forwards/bigs
ej montgomery soph f/c
khalil whitney fr F
keion brooks fr F
nick richards jr C
nate sestina r-Sr F/C
dontaie allen fr f

[CDu]

So what is unclear to me from everything I've read about the new rules is whether a player who hires an agent: (a) must remain in the draft and go undrafted in order to return to college or (b) can withdraw from the draft by the deadline in the usual manner.

Does anyone know what the deal is in that scenario?

Both (a) and (b) apply. In the case of (a), only if they went through the combine.

[DukeTrinity11]

hagans back to kentucky. they have a nice group even if herro declares for the nba

guards
ashton hagans soph cg
tyrese maxey fr cg
emmanuel quickley soph pg
jemarl baker jr r-soph g/f
zan payne r-fr g/f

forwards/bigs
ej montgomery soph f/c
khalil whitney fr F
keion brooks fr F
nick richards jr C
nate sestina r-Sr F/C
dontaie allen fr f
That looks like the worst team that Calipari has put out in the OAD era to be honest. They lose their 4 best players in Reid Travis, PJ Washington, Keldon Johnson and Tyler Herro while replacing them with some solid 5 stars but no true OAD studs like Cole Anthony, James Wiseman or Vernon Carey Jr.

Next year for UK will come down to player development. Do the young bigs EJ and Richards take a huge jump? What about the sophomore PGs Hagans and Quickley?

[Dukehk]

hagans back to kentucky. they have a nice group even if herro declares for the nba

guards
ashton hagans soph cg
tyrese maxey fr cg
emmanuel quickley soph pg
jemarl baker jr r-soph g/f
zan payne r-fr g/f

forwards/bigs
ej montgomery soph f/c
khalil whitney fr F
keion brooks fr F
nick richards jr C
nate sestina r-Sr F/C
dontaie allen fr f

Thats a decent team that will be top 5 easily.

Very similar boat to us in that they have some returning role players who may or may not make the step up.

[907bluedevils]

Keldon Johnson declared but left the door open for a return.

[scottdude8]

Keldon Johnson declared but left the door open for a return.

Please remember to include links (http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/26487802/uk-johnson-enters-draft-return) when you post news like this.

[scottdude8]

KU’s Quentin Grimes declares declares: http://m.kusports.com/news/2019/apr/10/quentin-grimes-says-goodbye-kansas-declares-2019-n/?templates=mobile

Seems like a Trenrt/Duval type scenario where he was projected as a one-and-done out of H.S. and was set on that path even though his performance this year wasn’t necessarily indicative of that. Even Self’s press release was mildly passive aggressive. Sounds like he’s for sure staying in the draft although that wasn’t explicitly said in the article. Regardless, it’s looking more and more like KU could be in for another down year if they don’t hit some big recruits in the next month.

[FerryFor50]

KU’s Quentin Grimes declares declares: http://m.kusports.com/news/2019/apr/10/quentin-grimes-says-goodbye-kansas-declares-2019-n/?templates=mobile

Seems like a Trenrt/Duval type scenario where he was projected as a one-and-done out of H.S. and was set on that path even though his performance this year wasn’t necessarily indicative of that. Even Self’s press release was mildly passive aggressive. Sounds like he’s for sure staying in the draft although that wasn’t explicitly said in the article. Regardless, it’s looking more and more like KU could be in for another down year if they don’t hit some big recruits in the next month.

Coaches need to stop doing this. Stop publicly begrudging a guy (even passive aggressively) for wanting to make a living, even if you disagree with the decision. Thank him for his time (and free labor) and wish him well. End of line.

[scottdude8]

Coaches need to stop doing this. Stop publicly begrudging a guy (even passive aggressively) for wanting to make a living, even if you disagree with the decision. Thank him for his time (and free labor) and wish him well. End of line.

Agreed

[bludevil_33]

Coaches need to stop doing this. Stop publicly begrudging a guy (even passive aggressively) for wanting to make a living, even if you disagree with the decision. Thank him for his time (and free labor) and wish him well. End of line.


I dunno, I think that's a skewed take on Self's comments about Grimes. The way I read it, Self is saying Grimes has a lot of talent, and had to battle a lot throughout the season (which he did) but that only makes him a better draft prospect.

To me, Self is actually doing his best to puff Grimes up in the eyes of the NBA scouts. "Hey, look, I know he didn't have the best year, but the kid is a fighter" is the way I read it. I mean, he literally said the KU community is proud of him and should wish him the best.

[scottdude8]

FWIW, NBADraft.net finally put together a half decent summary page of all the early entrants: https://www.nbadraft.net/2019-nba-draft-early-entry-page

Interestingly, they list Marques as “expected to declare”... but again, while this has been speculated on in a few areas, I’ve yet to see concrete reporting (ie sources rather than informed opinion) saying this is an option. I’m super curious to see how that situation continues to develop, as I think having him on the squad next year would be huge. For all of Carey’s talent it’s tough to expect a freshman big to play 30 mpg... we’ll need all the front court depth we can get to push us from a potentially good to a potentially great team.

[FerryFor50]

FWIW, NBADraft.net finally put together a half decent summary page of all the early entrants: https://www.nbadraft.net/2019-nba-draft-early-entry-page

Interestingly, they list Marques as “expected to declare”... but again, while this has been speculated on in a few areas, I’ve yet to see concrete reporting (ie sources rather than informed opinion) saying this is an option. I’m super curious to see how that situation continues to develop, as I think having him on the squad next year would be huge. For all of Carey’s talent it’s tough to expect a freshman big to play 30 mpg... we’ll need all the front court depth we can get to push us from a potentially good to a potentially great team.

Would be weird to see Marques declare - he hasn't shown a ton at Duke and is listed as potentially going undrafted. I think he could raise his stock a bit if he stayed, but perhaps this is his ceiling and his age is going to be more of a concern than having a good season.

[CDu]

Would be weird to see Marques declare - he hasn't shown a ton at Duke and is listed as potentially going undrafted. I think he could raise his stock a bit if he stayed, but perhaps this is his ceiling and his age is going to be more of a concern than having a good season.

As a junior who hasn't entered his name before, there is no harm in getting feedback from folks about where he stands and what he needs to do. I'd have no problem with him declaring and testing the waters.

[FerryFor50]

As a junior who hasn't entered his name before, there is no harm in getting feedback from folks about where he stands and what he needs to do. I'd have no problem with him declaring and testing the waters.

Absolutely should get feedback. I was thinking in terms of declaring and staying in.

[CDu]

Absolutely should get feedback. I was thinking in terms of declaring and staying in.

As for staying in, I'd say that if he feels ready to start his pro journey I have no problem with it. With Carey coming and starting at center, it's hard to see a ton of minutes for Bolden next year. So while I'd love to have him back, I'd not begrudge him wanting to move on either.

[UrinalCake]

People always bring up the notion of “getting feedback from NBA professionals” as a reason for putting your name in with the intention of coming back to school. And I always wonder if this ever legitimately happens. First off, do NBA teams really devote resources into evaluating players who they don’t feel are going to be in the draft? If so, do they actually share this information with the players themselves, so that the players will know what they need to work on? I find it hard to believe that in the ultra-competitive business of the NBA teams are going to go out of their way to help a bunch of college kids improve their stock for the following year. Also, is their anything these scouts can really tell a player that they don’t already know? Tre needs to improve his three point shooting. Everybody knows that. There was no reason to go through the combine so an NBA scout can tell him that shooting 24% from three is bad.

Conversely, it seems to me that going through the evaluation process before you’re ready to come out can expose your flaws and create a negative impression that you would have to overcome the following year. I remember reading an article that suggested as much a couple years back. The idea that “there’s no reason not to declare” is a fallacy IMO.

[AGDukesky]

People always bring up the notion of “getting feedback from NBA professionals” as a reason for putting your name in with the intention of coming back to school. And I always wonder if this ever legitimately happens. First off, do NBA teams really devote resources into evaluating players who they don’t feel are going to be in the draft? If so, do they actually share this information with the players themselves, so that the players will know what they need to work on? I find it hard to believe that in the ultra-competitive business of the NBA teams are going to go out of their way to help a bunch of college kids improve their stock for the following year. Also, is their anything these scouts can really tell a player that they don’t already know? Tre needs to improve his three point shooting. Everybody knows that. There was no reason to go through the combine so an NBA scout can tell him that shooting 24% from three is bad.

Conversely, it seems to me that going through the evaluation process before you’re ready to come out can expose your flaws and create a negative impression that you would have to overcome the following year. I remember reading an article that suggested as much a couple years back. The idea that “there’s no reason not to declare” is a fallacy IMO.

You bring up good points. My total guess is that by declaring the player can have conversations that are either not allowed or might bring scrutiny on the player/program. There do seem to be risks if a player shows flaws under more of a microscope- especially “older” players...

[BD80]

Iggy Brazdeikis going with an agent.


People always bring up the notion of “getting feedback from NBA professionals” as a reason for putting your name in with the intention of coming back to school. And I always wonder if this ever legitimately happens. First off, do NBA teams really devote resources into evaluating players who they don’t feel are going to be in the draft? If so, do they actually share this information with the players themselves, so that the players will know what they need to work on? I find it hard to believe that in the ultra-competitive business of the NBA teams are going to go out of their way to help a bunch of college kids improve their stock for the following year. Also, is their anything these scouts can really tell a player that they don’t already know? Tre needs to improve his three point shooting. Everybody knows that. There was no reason to go through the combine so an NBA scout can tell him that shooting 24% from three is bad.

Conversely, it seems to me that going through the evaluation process before you’re ready to come out can expose your flaws and create a negative impression that you would have to overcome the following year. I remember reading an article that suggested as much a couple years back. The idea that “there’s no reason not to declare” is a fallacy IMO.

I would say, yes, NBA teams would have scouts go through the effort, and would give information to the players. Draft picks can be worth quite a bit to franchises, depending on the circumstances. If attending a workout (generally group workouts) and giving a kid some feedback deepens the pool ahead of your team's #1 pick by 1 player, it is certainly worth the effort. On the other hand, since such players are likely to be lower picks anyway, it is a good chance to see how a kid responds to the feedback, to see if he can improve on areas of concern.

"Hiding" flaws to get drafted or to improve one's draft status, seems shortsighted. While it may lead to short-term guaranteed money, it can lead to a player being brought into the wrong situation and create a greater likelihood of failure.

[907bluedevils]

Quentin Grimes declared, I wasn't expecting that.

https://twitter.com/qdotgrimes/status/1116093166439084032

[UrinalCake]

Quentin Grimes declared, I wasn't expecting that.

Ol’ Grimey. A self-made man.

[JasonEvans]

Quentin Grimes declared, I wasn't expecting that.

https://twitter.com/qdotgrimes/status/1116093166439084032

Yeah, we had a brief conversation about this (https://forums.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showthread.php?43363-NBA-Draft-Early-Entry-2019&p=1155467#post1155467) earlier this morning.

I feel like we are, more and more, seeing kids go in because they think their high school ranking demands it rather than because their collegiate play makes a case for it.

[JetpackJesus]

People always bring up the notion of “getting feedback from NBA professionals” as a reason for putting your name in with the intention of coming back to school. And I always wonder if this ever legitimately happens. First off, do NBA teams really devote resources into evaluating players who they don’t feel are going to be in the draft? If so, do they actually share this information with the players themselves, so that the players will know what they need to work on? I find it hard to believe that in the ultra-competitive business of the NBA teams are going to go out of their way to help a bunch of college kids improve their stock for the following year. Also, is their anything these scouts can really tell a player that they don’t already know? Tre needs to improve his three point shooting. Everybody knows that. There was no reason to go through the combine so an NBA scout can tell him that shooting 24% from three is bad.

Conversely, it seems to me that going through the evaluation process before you’re ready to come out can expose your flaws and create a negative impression that you would have to overcome the following year. I remember reading an article that suggested as much a couple years back. The idea that “there’s no reason not to declare” is a fallacy IMO.

So the NBA has a Undergraduate Advisory Committee (https://www.nba.com/article/2017/05/25/clock-q-and-nba-executive-vice-president-basketball-operations-kiki-vandeweghe). They have since 1997. Nearly every NBA team participates each year, and it's usually the head basketball person for each team. The committee will form a consensus on where they expect a player would be drafted and share that with the player or coach. They don't comment on areas of the player's game that needs work.

With the recent new rules allowing players to participate in the combine and still withdraw from the draft, that also provides an opportunity for players to get meaningful feedback. Players also are allowed to participate in private team workouts, where they will receive feedback. In addition, now that kids can have agents, they will be able to get even more feedback because the agent can speak to team executives to get more information.

And from an ESPN article last year (http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/22854438/testing-nba-draft-waters-more-complicated-sounds) (this also discusses the UAC):

Some franchises (such as the Boston Celtics and Utah Jazz, though it varies year-to-year depending on draft picks) are incredibly aggressive about flying in as many prospects as possible for private workouts, as this allows them to gather quite a bit of information in the form of measurements, athletic testing data, interviews, psychological assessments and medical examinations. This also allows for an evaluation of players' individual skill sets on the court using the teams' own coaches and uniquely tailored drills.
So NBA teams do devote resources to these kids. And I imagine the kids do get valuable feedback on their status as an NBA prospect.

[JasonEvans]

So NBA teams do devote resources to these kids. And I imagine the kids do get valuable feedback on their status as an NBA prospect.

And how much does it cost to bring a kid in for 2 days to evaluate him? Maybe $2000? It is worth it for these teams to maybe find a diamond in the rough to get late in the 2nd round or sign to their G-League affiliate.

[JasonEvans]

You think Duke and Michigan have it bad losing 3 players to early entry, well what about LSU? 5... yes, 5 players from the Tigers have now announced (https://247sports.com/college/lsu/Article/Emmitt-Williams-LSU-basketball-2019-NBA-Draft-declares-agent-131118981/).


LSU freshman forward Emmitt Williams became the fifth Tiger to declare for the 2019 NBA Draft, announcing his intentions to declare on Instagram Thursday afternoon. The former five-star prospect joins freshman guard Javonte Smart, freshman forward Naz Reid, sophomore guard Tremont Waters and junior guard Skylar Mays in declaring.

Reid will be a first round pick and Waters might get into the 2nd round, but the rest of these guys are just turning pro to play in the G-League or overseas.

[907bluedevils]

Tyler Herro announces but leaves the door open for return.
http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/26505400/kentucky-herro-test-nba-draft-waters

Kevin Porter out of USC is gone.
http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/26505817/usc-freshman-porter-hires-agent-heads-draft

[Dukehk]

You think Duke and Michigan have it bad losing 3 players to early entry, well what about LSU? 5... yes, 5 players from the Tigers have now announced (https://247sports.com/college/lsu/Article/Emmitt-Williams-LSU-basketball-2019-NBA-Draft-declares-agent-131118981/).



Reid will be a first round pick and Waters might get into the 2nd round, but the rest of these guys are just turning pro to play in the G-League or overseas.

Oh my days!

Is skylar mayes even good enough for Europe at the moment? Incredible. The guy averages 13 points per game and is a 6'4 shooting guard...

I just hate how kids are just buying into this notion that you need to declare as soon as you can or you will never get drafted.

I don't understand why they wouldn't stay in school and improve their draft stock rather than play in obscurity, for minimum pay and forever be out of the NBA.

With the abolishment of the one and done rule, it wont be too soon before NBA owners and GMs are going to cry for the rule to come back because alot of GM's are going to lose their jobs over bad draft picks due to a lack of good scouting for these high school players. Half of them play against competition that is suspect and end up being very unprepared for the NBA. Even one year in college makes a huge difference to a players readiness for the pros.

[907bluedevils]

Markus Howard decides to return to Marquette, they can be very good next year.

https://twitter.com/markushoward11/status/1116733521777840128

[JasonEvans]

It is worth noting that a lot lot lot of kids are declaring to get some feedback and become familiar with the process and then planning to go back to school. For example, I think pretty much the entire Xavier team has been encouraged to do this.

This creates a problem for the NBa though, as having 300+ underclassmen is unwieldy and makes it impossible to really evaluate all of them. Oh well, I suspect the league knows who the top 100 prospects are anyway.

[JasonEvans]

Markus Howard decides to return to Marquette, they can be very good next year.

https://twitter.com/markushoward11/status/1116733521777840128

Pretty much cements them as a preseason top 10 team, at least. They return their top 7 leading scorers. This will be a team full of talented and experienced players.

-Jason "Wojo needs to move on after next season as the cupboard is pretty darn bare once the rising seniors graduate (I bet Joey Hauser declares for the draft after next season)" Evans

[UrinalCake]

Oh my days!

Is skylar mayes even good enough for Europe at the moment? Incredible. The guy averages 13 points per game and is a 6'4 shooting guard...

I just hate how kids are just buying into this notion that you need to declare as soon as you can or you will never get drafted.

I don't understand why they wouldn't stay in school and improve their draft stock rather than play in obscurity, for minimum pay and forever be out of the NBA.

Well LSU is about to get hammered big time, they already suspended their coach late in the season, so all of those players are getting out of dodge.

Thanks for the info about NBA player evaluations!

[JasonEvans]

Well LSU is about to get hammered big time, they already suspended their coach late in the season, so all of those players are getting out of dodge.

Supposedly, the school is meeting with Will Wade today and there seems to be some belief he will be reinstated. As we have seen with Arizona, Kansas, and others, NCAA justice is anything but swift. By the time they get around to punishing LSU, 36-year-old Will Wade will probably have retired.

[proelitedota]

Devon Dotson declared with option of returning.

https://twitter.com/d_dotson1/status/1116761925914963968

[plimnko]

Well LSU is about to get hammered big time, they already suspended their coach late in the season, so all of those players are getting out of dodge.

i remember thinking the same thing about the cheatheels. you see what happened to them. i have ZERO confidence in the ncaa

[Wahoo2000]

I think sometimes people fall into the trap of thinking of these guys like entrees in the oven. If you take them out of the oven (Duke) too soon, they're ruined. Cam will continue to develop whether he is at Duke or in the NBA. For most of these guys it's about maximizing draft position, and Cam is already pretty close to maxed out. He gone, and best of luck to him.

The bolded portion struck me with a thought I've had for some time. I honestly think this should only pertain to guys that are likely lottery, or at a minimum, 100% LOCK 1st round guys. Even if I'm a guy with a "late 1st round" grade, I think I'd have to look at it like this - rather than worry about my draft stock, I should be worrying about maximizing my chances to *stick* in the league. The lower the pick, the lesser the team investment, and the lesser they ultimately invest in developing the player, so you better be pretty damn sure you're going to be good enough to play or keep around. If you're a late 1st round or 2nd round "project"..... that's not good.

I'll never forget fellow UVA fans who, while happy they would stick around, were surprised that Brogdon and Harris didn't at least "test the waters" after their respective Jr. seasons. I don't believe either were projected anywhere near the 1st round, but both had a solid chance to BE drafted. Now, not every NCAA program develops their players as well as Bennett does at UVa, but both of those guys have credited that extra year as being key for them in being prepared to stick in the league. Somewhat bumpier ride for Harris, as he was an end-of-bench guy with the LeBron Cavs teams, and didn't really flourish until he got with the nets and had a chance to actually get some minutes. In the end though, BOTH of those guys have become solid/good NBA starters. Both in the top 10 (I think) in qualified 3pt percentage, and looking likely to have long, stable careers.

To some extent, I contrast that with Justin Anderson, who actually WAS a 100% lock 1st round guy, and went after his Jr season. I can't blame him at all, but wonder what might have happened with another year in Charlottesville to work on his ballhandling and outside shot. I *do* recognize that in the NBA, it's still entirely possible to develop those parts of your game as well. Maybe it was more of a mental/confidence part of his game that needed development - the BELIEF that he could dominate and knock down shots. Maybe he just isn't skilled enough to be a solid contributor. Maybe he WILL reach that level but just not there yet.

In any event, if you're wondering, I'd 100% counsel Hunter to go this year. If you're top 10 ish - the team drafting you should be sufficiently invested to give you all the time/development you'll need. Jerome? Hard to say. I honestly think the only things holding him back are pure athleticism, which obviously isn't really going to improve significantly. Given that we've won a title, if I were in his shoes, I'd probably go - even if NOT guaranteed a 1st round grade. The rare exception where I don't think there's much left (maybe aside from maturity - he does still make some poor decisions when frustrated, and will tend to whine to the refs when things aren't going well) to improve on. I won't be totally shocked if he comes back, but think that's maybe a 10-15% chance max. If I'm Guy or Diakite, I definitely go through the process just to get the feedback, but almost definitely would return to school for a final year of eligibility.

[Wahoo2000]

People always bring up the notion of “getting feedback from NBA professionals” as a reason for putting your name in with the intention of coming back to school. And I always wonder if this ever legitimately happens. First off, do NBA teams really devote resources into evaluating players who they don’t feel are going to be in the draft? If so, do they actually share this information with the players themselves, so that the players will know what they need to work on? I find it hard to believe that in the ultra-competitive business of the NBA teams are going to go out of their way to help a bunch of college kids improve their stock for the following year. Also, is their anything these scouts can really tell a player that they don’t already know? Tre needs to improve his three point shooting. Everybody knows that. There was no reason to go through the combine so an NBA scout can tell him that shooting 24% from three is bad.

Conversely, it seems to me that going through the evaluation process before you’re ready to come out can expose your flaws and create a negative impression that you would have to overcome the following year. I remember reading an article that suggested as much a couple years back. The idea that “there’s no reason not to declare” is a fallacy IMO.

The teams probably aren't going out of their way to give feedback directly to the kids, but if they DO evaluate the prospect (even if it's just film), I have a feeling most coaches at the NCAA DI level "know somebody who knows somebody" who can get their hands on that info. So if you're Kyle Guy, and maybe a fringe 2nd round guy or off the boards totally, why not declare, work out, and then find out what teams really think rather than just assume, "i need to really improve my ballhandling and passing, or show a better game off the bounce to even have a chance".

[proelitedota]

https://sports.theonion.com/duke-anthropology-professor-devastated-to-learn-promisi-1834009460?utm_medium=sharefromsite&utm_source=theonion_copy&utm_campaign=top

Hope Zion can at least consider being a legend in the new generation of anthropologists.

[CameronBornAndBred]

-Jason "Wojo needs to move on after next season as the cupboard is pretty darn bare once the rising seniors graduate (I bet Joey Hauser declares for the draft after next season)" Evans

That's a weird thing to say. In essence.."He can coach but he can't recruit, so he better leave."
Last I checked, getting your team in continuous rankings improved recruiting, on top of being an excellent recruiter as it is. You don't think he can't make the most of the opportunity to define the program?

[richardjackson199]

I guessing Zion will declare Monday or Tuesday after the presentation of the Wooden award this weekend. He'll have a good, classy declaration video too.

[flyingdutchdevil]

That's a weird thing to say. In essence.."He can coach but he can't recruit, so he better leave."
Last I checked, getting your team in continuous rankings improved recruiting, on top of being an excellent recruiter as it is. You don't think he can't make the most of the opportunity to define the program?

Not at Marquette. This looks to be the ultimate stepping stone school: Tom Creane, Buzz Williams, now Wojo. I agree with Jason- Wojo needs to move on after next year.

[MChambers]

The bolded portion struck me with a thought I've had for some time. I honestly think this should only pertain to guys that are likely lottery, or at a minimum, 100% LOCK 1st round guys. Even if I'm a guy with a "late 1st round" grade, I think I'd have to look at it like this - rather than worry about my draft stock, I should be worrying about maximizing my chances to *stick* in the league. The lower the pick, the lesser the team investment, and the lesser they ultimately invest in developing the player, so you better be pretty damn sure you're going to be good enough to play or keep around. If you're a late 1st round or 2nd round "project".... that's not good.

I'll never forget fellow UVA fans who, while happy they would stick around, were surprised that Brogdon and Harris didn't at least "test the waters" after their respective Jr. seasons. I don't believe either were projected anywhere near the 1st round, but both had a solid chance to BE drafted. Now, not every NCAA program develops their players as well as Bennett does at UVa, but both of those guys have credited that extra year as being key for them in being prepared to stick in the league. Somewhat bumpier ride for Harris, as he was an end-of-bench guy with the LeBron Cavs teams, and didn't really flourish until he got with the nets and had a chance to actually get some minutes. In the end though, BOTH of those guys have become solid/good NBA starters. Both in the top 10 (I think) in qualified 3pt percentage, and looking likely to have long, stable careers.

To some extent, I contrast that with Justin Anderson, who actually WAS a 100% lock 1st round guy, and went after his Jr season. I can't blame him at all, but wonder what might have happened with another year in Charlottesville to work on his ballhandling and outside shot. I *do* recognize that in the NBA, it's still entirely possible to develop those parts of your game as well. Maybe it was more of a mental/confidence part of his game that needed development - the BELIEF that he could dominate and knock down shots. Maybe he just isn't skilled enough to be a solid contributor. Maybe he WILL reach that level but just not there yet.

In any event, if you're wondering, I'd 100% counsel Hunter to go this year. If you're top 10 ish - the team drafting you should be sufficiently invested to give you all the time/development you'll need. Jerome? Hard to say. I honestly think the only things holding him back are pure athleticism, which obviously isn't really going to improve significantly. Given that we've won a title, if I were in his shoes, I'd probably go - even if NOT guaranteed a 1st round grade. The rare exception where I don't think there's much left (maybe aside from maturity - he does still make some poor decisions when frustrated, and will tend to whine to the refs when things aren't going well) to improve on. I won't be totally shocked if he comes back, but think that's maybe a 10-15% chance max. If I'm Guy or Diakite, I definitely go through the process just to get the feedback, but almost definitely would return to school for a final year of eligibility.

I agree completely.

[JasonEvans]

That's a weird thing to say. In essence.."He can coach but he can't recruit, so he better leave."
Last I checked, getting your team in continuous rankings improved recruiting, on top of being an excellent recruiter as it is. You don't think he can't make the most of the opportunity to define the program?

To be any good in 2020-21, Marquette will need to either bring in several grad/juco transfers or bring in a freshman class full of guys who can contribute right away. Wojo's recruiting the past couple years has been pretty darn poor other than landing Joey Hauser, who's brother was already at Marquette. Sure, he could restock the program in one season (he already has a top 50 kid signed for 2020) but it could be a challenge and Marquette is likely to take a fairly significant step back from where they were this year and especially where they will be next year. If Wojo can find another gig, perhaps in a BCS conference, he would be wise to pursue it.

[DavidBenAkiva]

That's a big one. I expect that De'Andre Hunter will be right behind him, too. Kihei Clark is a good young PG, but Jerome has been about the best player on their team the past two+ seasons. Hunter is really good, too, but Jerome was the straw the stirred the drink. It really sounds like he is not returning to college, either. While I think UVA will be a good team next year, their ability to repeat takes a major hit without Jerome and, presumably, Hunter.

[DarkstarWahoo]

Jerome is not coming back. He can, but he won't. This is what he wants. I suspect we'll hear from Hunter in a couple of days.

The real key is keeping Guy in the fold. I think he'll at least explore his options and get evaluations. Frankly, he'd be doing himself a disservice not to.

Wahoos will need the services of at least one grad transfer for 2020 backcourt depth. (Of course, I said that this year, too, but I didn't see Kihei Clark having NEARLY the impact that he had.)

[Dukehk]

That's a big one. I expect that De'Andre Hunter will be right behind him, too. Kihei Clark is a good young PG, but Jerome has been about the best player on their team the past two+ seasons. Hunter is really good, too, but Jerome was the straw the stirred the drink. It really sounds like he is not returning to college, either. While I think UVA will be a good team next year, their ability to repeat takes a major hit without Jerome and, presumably, Hunter.

Surprised that kyle guy isn't even testing the waters?

Surely with a national title under his belt, Its doubtful his stock will be any higher than now. Especially with everyone gone next year.

[scottdude8]

That's a big one. I expect that De'Andre Hunter will be right behind him, too. Kihei Clark is a good young PG, but Jerome has been about the best player on their team the past two+ seasons. Hunter is really good, too, but Jerome was the straw the stirred the drink. It really sounds like he is not returning to college, either. While I think UVA will be a good team next year, their ability to repeat takes a major hit without Jerome and, presumably, Hunter.

Let's make sure we're keeping with DBR policies and linking (https://www.si.com/college-basketball/2019/04/15/ty-jerome-virginia-declares-nba-draft-2019) to sources when putting forth news like this all...

[scottdude8]

Oregon's Louis King has declared (https://www.ducksports.com/sports/20190412/oregons-louis-king-will-hire-agent-and-not-return-to-oregon) and "will not return to Oregon." That's a big loss for a team that was thought of as a "sleeper" in many of the Way-To-Early rankings.

Arizona's Brandon Randolph (https://tucson.com/sports/arizonawildcats/basketball/arizona-wildcats-sophomore-brandon-randolph-declares-for-nba-draft/article_fbe7efd8-5d97-11e9-bf6b-0f02575ff6b5.html) is "testing the waters". Not a projected draftee in most mocks, but if the slow-moving hammer ever does come down on Arizona that might force some kids' hands.

Another Kansas 5* who lost a lot of draft stock after a disappointing season, Quentin Grimes, has declared (http://www2.kusports.com/news/2019/apr/12/kansas-point-guard-devon-dotson-announces-decision/) but appears to be keeping his options more open. This seems like another example of a kid trying to get drafted on his high school credentials and not his college resume.

All in all this has been a super interesting and eventful early entry period as these new agent and withdraw rules come into play. While potential top 15 teams in 2019-20 like Kansas and Michigan seem to be losing more than was anticipated, the door is technically open for any of those guys to return with the new "you can have an agent as long as you end your relationship with them" rule. Kansas could be anywhere from a Top 10 team to a fringe Top 25 team depending on how much they lose (Udoka Azubuike also hasn't made a decision yet, but given his injury history and the likelihood he gets drafted in the second round I think he might not want to risk another injury at Kansas). Meanwhile, if Michigan loses all three of Matthews, Brazdeikis, and Poole they go from being one of the top-tier National Title contenders to just a top-25 team to start the year, but if even one of them comes back to fill the role of primary scoring option they should still be a Top 10 team (junior super-sixth man Isaiah Livers is tailor made to jump into the starting lineup as a Beilein strech-4, a role he actually started in during Michigan's Final Four run, and Michigan is also heavily involved with some of the best remaining recruits as well as the top-tier grad transfers).

I think we need to start calling the post title game "Way Too Early" Top 25s the "Way Way Way Too Early" Top 25s. The "Way Way Too Early's" would come after the initial declarations, with the "Way too Early's" coming after the withdraw date. So tough to fill these long offseason months when your baseball team sucks, haha.

[MChambers]

Surprised that kyle guy isn't even testing the waters?

Surely with a national title under his belt, Its doubtful his stock will be any higher than now. Especially with everyone gone next year.

Every year, I expect UVa to have a drop off. If Guy comes back, they'll be top ten, with Guy, Clark, Diakete, Huff, and Key.

[jimsumner]

Every year, I expect UVa to have a drop off. If Guy comes back, they'll be top ten, with Guy, Clark, Diakete, Huff, and Key.

No way Virginia survives the loss of Brogdon and Perrantes.

[flyingdutchdevil]

No way Virginia survives the loss of Brogdon and Perrantes.

Perrantes is still on the team. 9th year senior.

[BD80]

…

All in all this has been a super interesting and eventful early entry period as these new agent and withdraw rules come into play. While potential top 15 teams in 2019-20 like Kansas and Michigan seem to be losing more than was anticipated, the door is technically open for any of those guys to return with the new "you can have an agent as long as you end your relationship with them" rule. ...

This would include repaying any cash advances made by the agent?

I am betting the agents are free with the cash advances and covering expenses, making it difficult for the player to return to school ...

[devildeac]

Perrantes is still on the team. 9th year senior.

I know someone is gonna want a link for that one...

[Troublemaker]

Every year, I expect UVa to have a drop off. If Guy comes back, they'll be top ten, with Guy, Clark, Diakete, Huff, and Key.


No way Virginia survives the loss of Brogdon and Perrantes.

The last time UVA lost a Hunter-level NBA talent was Brogdon (who went on to win Rookie of the Year and is a good NBA starter now [albeit currently injured]), UVA immediately followed up with a mediocre season in 2017: 23-11 overall, 11-7 in the ACC.

Now, the very next season after that in 2018, UVA was right back to being elite. That was what sealed the deal that they're here to stay, but I don't think it's necessary to pooh-pooh UVA falling off in 2020 if they lose Hunter and Jerome. The first season after will be tough.

UVA will probably bounce right back in 2021, but a dropoff in 2020 should be expected. I will back this up with pie if anyone is really interested in figuring out a wager on this.

[DarkstarWahoo]

The last time UVA lost a Hunter-level NBA talent was Brogdon (who went on to win Rookie of the Year and is a good NBA starter now [albeit currently injured]), UVA immediately followed up with a mediocre season in 2017: 23-11 overall, 11-7 in the ACC.

Now, the very next season in 2018, UVA was right back to being elite. That was what sealed the deal that they're here to stay, but I don't think it's necessary to pooh-pooh UVA falling off in 2020 if they lose Hunter and Jerome.

They'll probably bounce right back in 2021, but a dropoff in 2020 should be expected. I will back this up with pie if anyone is really interested in figuring out a wager on this.

You could definitely be right, but it should be pointed out that UVA went into that season expecting Austin Nichols to be its best inside player (maybe best player, period) only for Bennett to boot him two games into the season. That’s not to say that UVA couldn’t drop off, of course.

A lot depends on Guy’s decision, of course. I would also expect UVA to be in the mix for a better class of grad transfer than in previous years (no disrespect to Nigel Johnson, who I believe wasn’t used very well in his one season in Charlottesville).

[ice-9]

Yeah, Steph Curry was one of the most prolific scorers (and especially shooters) in NCAA history. Tre is many good things, but he...isn't that. His court vision and ball security I would expect to translate, but his lack of size and (relative) lack of upper-end athleticism may mean that his defense doesn't translate as well to the NBA game, where he will somewhat regularly need to defend guys bigger and faster than him.

It is hard to make it in the NBA as a guard without elite size/athleticism or elite shooting. Tre has neither, but if he can improve his shot (and there is no reason to think he can't) he can have a solid NBA career probably similar to what his brother is doing. Two relevant Duke comps for Jones would be to take Tyus without the shooting or Duval without the athleticism and project from there. Who would be Jones' closest active NBA comp? It is hard for me to think of one.

In any case, whether he is better off developing his shot in the G-League or as a deep bench player in the NBA or staying in college is up to him. My gut says college, but then I am biased ;)

Tre is much better than Duval.

Duval is like Wall or Westbrook but much, much worse, and those two are not the type of guys to build franchises around. (Can you believe OKC had Durant, Harden and Oladipo and basically chose Westbrook to be their cornerstone?? Ouch.)

Tre can run a team and with a good jumpshot can be a backup PG in the NBA for many years.

[devildeac]

The last time UVA lost a Hunter-level NBA talent was Brogdon (who went on to win Rookie of the Year and is a good NBA starter now [albeit currently injured]), UVA immediately followed up with a mediocre season in 2017: 23-11 overall, 11-7 in the ACC.

Now, the very next season after that in 2018, UVA was right back to being elite. That was what sealed the deal that they're here to stay, but I don't think it's necessary to pooh-pooh UVA falling off in 2020 if they lose Hunter and Jerome. The first season after will be tough.

UVA will probably bounce right back in 2021, but a dropoff in 2020 should be expected. I will back this up with pie if anyone is really interested in figuring out a wager on this.

"If UVa doesn't finish in the top 3 (including ties) during the 2019-20 regular season ACC standings..."

(I'm not a betting "guy," only an innocent pie-stander...)

I'll leave now.

[Troublemaker]

"If UVa doesn't finish in the top 3 (including ties) during the 2019-20 regular season ACC standings..."

(I'm not a betting "guy," only an innocent pie-stander...)

I'll leave now.

Nice, but those betting terms are too generous. For one thing, I think I'd pick UVA 3rd next season. For another, I think some DBR poster is going to pick UVA to win the ACC regular season next season -- that's the fish I want to nab in a potential wager.

[Troublemaker]

You could definitely be right, but it should be pointed out that UVA went into that season expecting Austin Nichols to be its best inside player (maybe best player, period) only for Bennett to boot him two games into the season. That’s not to say that UVA couldn’t drop off, of course.

A lot depends on Guy’s decision, of course. I would also expect UVA to be in the mix for a better class of grad transfer than in previous years (no disrespect to Nigel Johnson, who I believe wasn’t used very well in his one season in Charlottesville).

Keep in mind I've been probably the most vocal DBR poster saying that UVA doesn't have an NCAAT problem; that you guys have just been unlucky. I even said it after you lost to a 16 seed (due in large part to Hunter's injury). Lo and behold, you guys end up winning the national title this year. (During the tournament, I also wrote on here that UVA is the favorite for the title due to the way the bracket was laid out, and you guys certainly lived up to that designation). So, I'm not biased against you guys and may have been your biggest defender on here.

[DarkstarWahoo]

Keep in mind I've been probably the most vocal DBR poster saying that UVA doesn't have an NCAAT problem; that you guys have just been unlucky. I even said it after you lost to a 16 seed (due in large part to Hunter's injury). Lo and behold, you guys end up winning the national title this year. (During the tournament, I also wrote on here that UVA is the favorite for the title due to the way the bracket was laid out, and you guys certainly lived up to that designation). So, I'm not biased against you guys and may have been your biggest defender on here.

Oh, I definitely didn’t mean to insinuate anything. Just pointing out some slightly mitigating circumstances. And of course, Austin Nichols has you-know-what all to do with the 2020 UVA hoops team.

[roywhite]

Virginia guard Jerome opting for NBA draft

per ESPN report http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/26529918/virginia-guard-jerome-opting-nba-draft

..But all signs point to Jerome remaining in the draft.

"He's gone," said one source close to the program.

Virginia's Tony Bennett is expected to release a statement about the junior's departure on Monday

[Truth&Justise]

-Jason "Wojo needs to move on after next season as the cupboard is pretty darn bare once the rising seniors graduate (I bet Joey Hauser declares for the draft after next season)" Evans


That's a weird thing to say. In essence.."He can coach but he can't recruit, so he better leave."
Last I checked, getting your team in continuous rankings improved recruiting, on top of being an excellent recruiter as it is. You don't think he can't make the most of the opportunity to define the program?


Not at Marquette. This looks to be the ultimate stepping stone school: Tom Creane, Buzz Williams, now Wojo. I agree with Jason- Wojo needs to move on after next year.


To be any good in 2020-21, Marquette will need to either bring in several grad/juco transfers or bring in a freshman class full of guys who can contribute right away. Wojo's recruiting the past couple years has been pretty darn poor other than landing Joey Hauser, who's brother was already at Marquette. Sure, he could restock the program in one season (he already has a top 50 kid signed for 2020) but it could be a challenge and Marquette is likely to take a fairly significant step back from where they were this year and especially where they will be next year. If Wojo can find another gig, perhaps in a BCS conference, he would be wise to pursue it.

Um, the Hauser brothers just announced they are transferring (https://twitter.com/GoodmanHoops/status/1117844357888004097). Marquette's 2020 season just imploded.

[Ian]

No way Virginia survives the loss of Brogdon and Perrantes.

And Anderson, etc.

Frankly I think at this point Bennett has earned the benefit of the doubt that he'll have the next guy ready no matter whom they lose. I expect UVA to be a top 10 team next year.

[Natty_B]

Um, the Hauser brothers just announced they are transferring (https://twitter.com/GoodmanHoops/status/1117844357888004097). Marquette's 2020 season just imploded.

Yeah "Wojo" is trending on Twitter and not in a good way.

[dukelifer]

Yeah "Wojo" is trending on Twitter and not in a good way.

May be heading to UVa

[MCFinARL]

This would include repaying any cash advances made by the agent?

I am betting the agents are free with the cash advances and covering expenses, making it difficult for the player to return to school ...

Yes, it does include that. So you are right, a player who is seriously unsure about whether he will return or not needs to be very careful about how he deals with an agent.

[907bluedevils]

To no surprise, Hachimura from Gonzaga and Hunter from Virginia have declared.

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/26531028/gonzaga-top-scorer-hachimura-entering-draft

https://www.si.com/college-basketball/2019/04/15/deandre-hunter-declares-virginia-nba-draft

[Wahoo2000]

And Anderson, etc.

Frankly I think at this point Bennett has earned the benefit of the doubt that he'll have the next guy ready no matter whom they lose. I expect UVA to be a top 10 team next year.

It is indeed a strange world to live in where I've come to expect that my Hoos will be a top 10-15ish team in our most "down" years, top 10ish most of the time, and title contenders/top 5ish more often than not. It's exceedingly bizarre to contemplate for a guy who grew up during the Jones/Gillen/Leitao eras. Maybe this is what Patriots fans felt like in the early 2000s (I know that's a stretch.... but one can only hope! lol)

[Wahoo2000]

To no surprise, Hachimura from Gonzaga and Hunter from Virginia have declared.

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/26531028/gonzaga-top-scorer-hachimura-entering-draft

https://www.si.com/college-basketball/2019/04/15/deandre-hunter-declares-virginia-nba-draft

Hunter is definitely gone. And within an hour, Bennett picked up a commitment from Justin McKoy (some 2019 kid from Cary, North Carolina that had been released from his LOI by Penn St.)

McKoy isn't very highly ranked but good measurables (6'8 225 SF with a good shooting stroke) and supposedly was being HOTLY pursued by Roy. Might be another Clark/Perrantes-level "diamond in the rough". We'll see, I guess.

[wavedukefan70s]

Hunter is definitely gone. And within an hour, Bennett picked up a commitment from Justin McKoy (some 2019 kid from Cary, North Carolina that had been released from his LOI by Penn St.)

McKoy isn't very highly ranked but good measurables (6'8 225 SF with a good shooting stroke) and supposedly was being HOTLY pursued by Roy. Might be another Clark/Perrantes-level "diamond in the rough". We'll see, I guess.

Was salt a senior?my son liked his game .jr loves those bruisers. Thank God he doesnt know hansbrough. We may have had a problem.

[scottdude8]

Looks like Bruno Fernando, no surprise, is going pro. Anthony Cowan on the other hand is more of a surprise: https://es.pn/2V4Dmek

With Cowan Maryland is a B1G contender and borderline top-10 team. Without him they’re borderline top 25. This will be a big one to watch.

[DarkstarWahoo]

Was salt a senior?my son liked his game .jr loves those bruisers. Thank God he doesnt know hansbrough. We may have had a problem.

Isaiah Wilkins has the information you seek:

https://twitter.com/isaiahwilkins17/status/1117925585437675520?s=12

(Yes, he was a senior.)

[wavedukefan70s]

Isaiah Wilkins has the information you seek:

https://twitter.com/isaiahwilkins17/status/1117925585437675520?s=12

(Yes, he was a senior.)

I cant believe he was only 250 pounds.
I ended up googling him.

[JasonEvans]

Hunter is definitely gone. And within an hour, Bennett picked up a commitment from Justin McKoy (some 2019 kid from Cary, North Carolina that had been released from his LOI by Penn St.)

McKoy isn't very highly ranked but good measurables (6'8 225 SF with a good shooting stroke) and supposedly was being HOTLY pursued by Roy. Might be another Clark/Perrantes-level "diamond in the rough". We'll see, I guess.

The way DBR folks read the above post...

Uh-oh, Virginia is restocking. That is not good!
Yay, Virginia stole a kid that Roy wanted. That is soooo good!


-Jason "just so we are clear on where our priorities are... " Evans

[richardjackson199]

The way DBR folks read the above post...

Uh-oh, Virginia is restocking. That is not good!
Yay, Virginia stole a kid that Roy wanted. That is soooo good!


-Jason "just so we are clear on where our priorities are... " Evans

2. trumps 1. every time. eat feces Roy

[Ian]

Kyle Guy declared but leaving the possibility of coming back.

Although judging by history very small percentage who declares actually comes back.

[scottdude8]

Kyle Guy declared but leaving the possibility of coming back.

Although judging by history very small percentage who declares actually comes back.

The link (or SI's version) can be found here (https://www.si.com/college-basketball/2019/04/15/kyle-guy-virginia-declares-nba-draft).

It's interesting how the new rules are making things so much harder to parse... there's no longer the clear "with/without agent distinction". Instead, most everyone is signing with an agent but "keeping options open". So we're left reading tea-leaves for these guys who are fringe prospects. Something tells me the fact that he's "diving in with two feet", combined with how valuable shooting is in today's NBA, means he's leaning towards going, but that's just my interpretation.

[907bluedevils]

Not surprising, Herro staying in the draft

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/26540110/kentucky-herro-remain-nba-draft

[weezie]

Kyle Guy declared but leaving the possibility of coming back...

Many of my hoo acquaintances here in VA have been chortling about the strong back-to-back possibilities that were there for the taking next year.

A small, wan smile was all they got from me and that was before the draft declarations.

[ElliottHoo]

Many of my hoo acquaintances here in VA have been chortling about the strong back-to-back possibilities that were there for the taking next year.

A small, wan smile was all they got from me and that was before the draft declarations.

It pains me to speak ill of another UVA fan, but they were twits. Sure, maybe Hunter and Jerome might not declare. Zion might not have declared, either. Not impossible, but also not the smart bet.

They’re both gone, but UVA probably won’t lose anyone else who played significant minutes, and will add a bunch of new, solid 4* players. But the roster won’t be as optimally constructed as this year. It will be front-court heavy and the talent distribution will be concentrated in seniors and freshman. UVA spending most of the season ranked in the teens, ending up as a 3-seed, is a lot more realistic than a championship repeat.

[BD80]

The link (or SI's version) can be found here (https://www.si.com/college-basketball/2019/04/15/kyle-guy-virginia-declares-nba-draft).

It's interesting how the new rules are making things so much harder to parse... there's no longer the clear "with/without agent distinction". Instead, most everyone is signing with an agent but "keeping options open". So we're left reading tea-leaves for these guys who are fringe prospects. Something tells me the fact that he's "diving in with two feet", combined with how valuable shooting is in today's NBA, means he's leaning towards going, but that's just my interpretation.

Maybe we could track whether they are in classes or not … guffaw, chortle …

How about how much a player travels for workouts … unless the teams pay those costs.

[DarkstarWahoo]

It pains me to speak ill of another UVA fan, but they were twits. Sure, maybe Hunter and Jerome might not declare. Zion might not have declared, either. Not impossible, but also not the smart bet.

They’re both gone, but UVA probably won’t lose anyone else who played significant minutes, and will add a bunch of new, solid 4* players. But the roster won’t be as optimally constructed as this year. It will be front-court heavy and the talent distribution will be concentrated in seniors and freshman. UVA spending most of the season ranked in the teens, ending up as a 3-seed, is a lot more realistic than a championship repeat.

Yeah, those people are ill-informed. This next year was always going to be slightly rough. Hunter was always gone and Jerome has been a poorly kept secret for a while. One reason I hope they can land the Hauser brothers and load up for 2021.

I’ve been hearing Guy will most likely come back, but he seems closer to 50-50 to me based largely on my own intuition. Diakite will declare and most likely come back.

[Spanarkel]

Kyle Guy declared but leaving the possibility of coming back.

Although judging by history very small percentage who declares actually comes back.

In 2018(before the rule change), it appears that ~80 players declared/signed with agent/remained in the draft while ~114 players declared but returned to school.

https://collegebasketball.nbcsports.com/2018/05/30/2018-nba-draft-early-entry-list-who-declared-who-is-returning-who-are-we-w

[DarkstarWahoo]

So I did some reading on the new rule, and a player does NOT have to pay back agent expenses if he pulls out. The agent eats it, essentially as an investment write-off.

[frb]

anyone surprised marques bolden isn't at least testing the waters?

[freshmanjs]

anyone surprised marques bolden isn't at least testing the waters?

Who said he's not?

[CameronBornAndBred]

anyone surprised marques bolden isn't at least testing the waters?

I'm not. He was an asset this year, for sure, but he wouldn't be drafted. I guess maybe in the second round, but I doubt it. He's much better off finishing out his career at Duke, being a valuable member of another high caliber team. If he improves next year like he did this year, then he WILL get drafted.

[jimsumner]

anyone surprised marques bolden isn't at least testing the waters?

I believe the legal term is assuming facts not in evidence.

He still has some time.

[Nugget]

Kyle Guy declared but leaving the possibility of coming back.

Although judging by history very small percentage who declares actually comes back.

Unless he really hates school or just wants to get on with a pro career in the G League or overseas, Guy seems like one who would be likely to come back. At 6-2, 175 lbs., he can't possibly be a SG in the NBA and he's not been asked to do much PG work with Jerome (and Clark) handling that role the last 3 years. He's not in the ESPN or SI "experts'" Top 100 players for the draft.

I have to believe the draft process is going to result in the major theme of the feedback he receives being "go back to school and show us you can play PG."

[BD80]

So I did some reading on the new rule, and a player does NOT have to pay back agent expenses if he pulls out. The agent eats it, essentially as an investment write-off.

I find this highly amusing. Now you might have some agents willing to throw a bunch of money at borderline prospects just for the chance to sign them. Send them everywhere, get them all sorts of trainers.

I imagine that the contract would require the player to repay the expenses if he eventually signs with a different agent.

[JetpackJesus]

I find this highly amusing. Now you might have some agents willing to throw a bunch of money at borderline prospects just for the chance to sign them. Send them everywhere, get them all sorts of trainers.

I imagine that the contract would require the player to repay the expenses if he eventually signs with a different agent.

The new rules place significant limitations on what the agents can pay for--only travel, meals, and lodging if associated with a meeting with the agent or a pro team (https://www.ncaa.org/about/flexibility-going-pro-and-getting-degree)--if the player intends to maintain eligibility. Agents also have to be certified by the NCAA (whatever that means), and the agreement between agent and student must be disclosed to the school (or to the NCAA for HS students once they can hire agents).

[MCFinARL]

The new rules place significant limitations on what the agents can pay for--only travel, meals, and lodging if associated with a meeting with the agent or a pro team (https://www.ncaa.org/about/flexibility-going-pro-and-getting-degree)--if the player intends to maintain eligibility. Agents also have to be certified by the NCAA (whatever that means), and the agreement between agent and student must be disclosed to the school (or to the NCAA for HS students once they can hire agents).

For this year, an NCAA certified agent is anyone certified by the NBA players' association (https://ncaaorg.s3.amazonaws.com/enforcement/2019ENF_NBAMemo.pdf); apparently the NCAA plans to set up its own certification program by August.

[WiJoe]

Guy is getting married this July. Draw your own conclusions.

[ChillinDuke]

Diakite has apparently declared. I'm on mobile so the below link, while ugly, will have to suffice.

https://www.dailyprogress.com/cavalierinsider/virginia-forward-mamadi-diakite-declares-for-nba-draft/article_f3f963de-6156-11e9-b8ac-e3ac7d852c08.html

- Chillin

[MChambers]

Diakite has apparently declared. I'm on mobile so the below link, while ugly, will have to suffice.

https://www.dailyprogress.com/cavalierinsider/virginia-forward-mamadi-diakite-declares-for-nba-draft/article_f3f963de-6156-11e9-b8ac-e3ac7d852c08.html

- Chillin

Here’s the Washington Post article on Diakete declaring: https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2019/04/17/virginias-mamadi-diakite-becomes-latest-member-national-champions-declare-nba-draft/?utm_term=.8a5a92f22786

[devildeac]

Diakite has apparently declared. I'm on mobile so the below link, while ugly, will have to suffice.

https://www.dailyprogress.com/cavalierinsider/virginia-forward-mamadi-diakite-declares-for-nba-draft/article_f3f963de-6156-11e9-b8ac-e3ac7d852c08.html

- Chillin


Here’s the Washington Post article on Diakete declaring: https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2019/04/17/virginias-mamadi-diakite-becomes-latest-member-national-champions-declare-nba-draft/?utm_term=.8a5a92f22786

Hey, Hoo fans:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jAuwMT__wjI

Do they have to turn out the lights and close/lock the door as they leave?

Yea, I know, they're not gone until they're gone but admit it, so many declarations make you a lot more nervous.

[MChambers]

Hey, Hoo fans:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jAuwMT__wjI

Do they have to turn out the lights and close/lock the door as they leave?

Yea, I know, they're not gone until they're gone but admit it, so many declarations make you a lot more nervous.

Wait until Kihei Clark declares!

[jhmoss1812]

Raise your hand if you thought UVA would have more NBA draft declarations than Duke this year

I don't think we end up losing them all (I think Guy and Diakite are most likely to return) but this is what happens when you win a national championship. There's really nothing else left to accomplish at the college level and your stock will probably never be higher. I do not fault these guys for entering their names and getting feedback. It's the prudent thing to do. If they choose to stay in the draft, I hope they accomplish their ultimate dreams and get drafted. In my eyes, bringing a national championship to UVA has earned you the right to do whatever you think is best and I look forward to cheering them on at the next level.

Next year's team will be very interesting. We have some guys redshirting that are very promising but it's hard to replace that kind of production regardless of who you have coming in the following year. Maybe this convinces the Hausers to come to UVA. Even though they'd have to sit out this upcoming year, it should put us right back into the thick of things the following year.

[ElliottHoo]

Raise your hand if you thought UVA would have more NBA draft declarations than Duke this year

I don't think we end up losing them all (I think Guy and Diakite are most likely to return) but this is what happens when you win a national championship. There's really nothing else left to accomplish at the college level and your stock will probably never be higher. I do not fault these guys for entering their names and getting feedback. It's the prudent thing to do. If they choose to stay in the draft, I hope they accomplish their ultimate dreams and get drafted. In my eyes, bringing a national championship to UVA has earned you the right to do whatever you think is best and I look forward to cheering them on at the next level.

Next year's team will be very interesting. We have some guys redshirting that are very promising but it's hard to replace that kind of production regardless of who you have coming in the following year. Maybe this convinces the Hausers to come to UVA. Even though they'd have to sit out this upcoming year, it should put us right back into the thick of things the following year.

If either Guy or Diakite stay in the draft along with Jerome and Hunter, then UVA next year is going to look a lot like Nova did this year. If they both go, it’ll be amazing for UVA making a name for itself but the team will struggle to even get, much less stay, in the top 25.

Edit - If Guy goes, UVA would be looked for a grad transfer to possibly start at the 2. Yikes.

[devildeac]

Wait until Kihei Clark declares!

They may have to shut down The Sabre:eek:.

"Oh, we got trouble, right here in River City..."

[UrinalCake]

I'm on mobile so the below link, while ugly, will have to suffice.

I find that links work BETTER when you post from a mobile device. The board software automatically converts the URL into a link. When I post from a browser it will show up as raw text unless I use the link button thingy.

[Dukehk]

Diakite has apparently declared. I'm on mobile so the below link, while ugly, will have to suffice.

https://www.dailyprogress.com/cavalierinsider/virginia-forward-mamadi-diakite-declares-for-nba-draft/article_f3f963de-6156-11e9-b8ac-e3ac7d852c08.html

- Chillin

I get that they won a national title, but that doesn't mean the whole team is ready for the pros!

Whats with this trend of winning a national title and then everyone bolting for the NBA!? Whoever is giving this crap advice to these kids should be shot.

If you average 7 points per game and barely have a jump-shot to speak of, you aren't ready for ANY high level pro league, let alone the NBA. Crazy.

[DarkstarWahoo]

I get that they won a national title, but that doesn't mean the whole team is ready for the pros!

Whats with this trend of winning a national title and then everyone bolting for the NBA!? Whoever is giving this crap advice to these kids should be shot.

If you average 7 points per game and barely have a jump-shot to speak of, you aren't ready for ANY high level pro league, let alone the NBA. Crazy.

It’s all the new rule. They basically get one consequence-free evaluation. Key is going to declare, too, and come back after a very short discussion. Diakite will most likely be back, and Guy might be. Huff will do it next year.

Frankly, any junior with any kind of NBA aspirations who doesn’t go through the process is doing himself a disservice.

[subzero02]

Raise your hand if you thought UVA would have more NBA draft declarations than Duke this year

I don't think we end up losing them all (I think Guy and Diakite are most likely to return) but this is what happens when you win a national championship. There's really nothing else left to accomplish at the college level and your stock will probably never be higher. I do not fault these guys for entering their names and getting feedback. It's the prudent thing to do. If they choose to stay in the draft, I hope they accomplish their ultimate dreams and get drafted. In my eyes, bringing a national championship to UVA has earned you the right to do whatever you think is best and I look forward to cheering them on at the next level.

Next year's team will be very interesting. We have some guys redshirting that are very promising but it's hard to replace that kind of production regardless of who you have coming in the following year. Maybe this convinces the Hausers to come to UVA. Even though they'd have to sit out this upcoming year, it should put us right back into the thick of things the following year.

This is a ridiculous perspective. They had this right after last year's loss to 16 seed UMBC and would have still maintained it if the Raiders had executed their last possession in regulation a bit better. These student athletes don't owe us anything; they aren't in our debt. They just owe it to themselves to strive for excellence.

[Troublemaker]

I get that they won a national title, but that doesn't mean the whole team is ready for the pros!

Whats with this trend of winning a national title and then everyone bolting for the NBA!? Whoever is giving this crap advice to these kids should be shot.

If you average 7 points per game and barely have a jump-shot to speak of, you aren't ready for ANY high level pro league, let alone the NBA. Crazy.

(1A) They are striking while the iron is hot, while their stock is at a high.
(1B) Relatedly, if they return to school and all their best teammates are gone and opposing defenses can gameplan to stop them, it's possible their weaknesses get exposed more.

(2) They also could be taking advantage of the rules that allow them to get evaluated for free.

FYI, Kyle Guy is going to be an NBA player. He might take the Seth Curry path (long, a bit arduous) to get there, but a shooter like Guy has a place in the league. Seth currently is in the rotation for a playoff team.