Duke MBB v Shaw post-game thread

[mgtr]

OK, here is the net net. The three freshmen were as billed. Singler is great, Smith is a wonderful complement to Paulus, and Taylor is "special". As regard to the sophomores, the main difference is that Thomas is a different player altogether. Where last year I wondered why K wanted him, this year there is no question. He is very, very good. Hendo is Hendo, better than last year, not as good as he will be. Zoubek is better, but not a whole bunch better. Scheyer is consistently good. People want to compare Hendo and Scheyer. They are different players (as are Paulus and Smith), both will play a lot. Nelson seems to play more under control this year (and made his free throws). All in all, I am excited.

[weezie]

LT is my guy!

[SilkyJ]

OK, here is the net net. The three freshmen were as billed. Singler is great, Smith is a wonderful complement to Paulus, and Taylor is "special". As regard to the sophomores, the main difference is that Thomas is a different player altogether. Where last year I wondered why K wanted him, this year there is no question. He is very, very good. Hendo is Hendo, better than last year, not as good as he will be. Zoubek is better, but not a whole bunch better. Scheyer is consistently good. People want to compare Hendo and Scheyer. They are different players (as are Paulus and Smith), both will play a lot. Nelson seems to play more under control this year (and made his free throws). All in all, I am excited.

all these conclusions after one scrimmage and an exhibition game! i feel like we're beating a dead horse here, but these guys arent even real competition. we've got to wait a little before we start jumping to conclusions.

[CDu]

OK, here is the net net. The three freshmen were as billed. Singler is great, Smith is a wonderful complement to Paulus, and Taylor is "special". As regard to the sophomores, the main difference is that Thomas is a different player altogether. Where last year I wondered why K wanted him, this year there is no question. He is very, very good. Hendo is Hendo, better than last year, not as good as he will be. Zoubek is better, but not a whole bunch better. Scheyer is consistently good. People want to compare Hendo and Scheyer. They are different players (as are Paulus and Smith), both will play a lot. Nelson seems to play more under control this year (and made his free throws). All in all, I am excited.

I'd be careful with some of this analysis. While I hope you're right about all of these guys, remember that we were playing Shaw. I'd be careful to draw any conclusions about where the players are based solely on this exhibition. Especially Thomas, considering that Shaw's starting "big" guys were 6'6" 210 and 6'5" 240. What this game shows is that we're much, much better than Shaw. Hopefully that translates to the D-1 competition, but that remains to be seen.

I don't mean to sound like a downer, but it's easy to look really good against very inferior competition. Especially when that competition is not physically capable of exploiting our potential weaknesses (post defense).

[sandinmyshoes]

I do not know what Shaw's prospects are for this season. I don't know who they lost from last season or brought in this season. However, that was a much wider margin of victory than last season's exihibition against them.

[mgtr]

I don't mean to sound like a downer, but it's easy to look really good against very inferior competition. Especially when that competition is not physically capable of exploiting our potential weaknesses (post defense).

I think I took that into account. I was just trying to compare our players this year to our players last year. Last year it seemed to me that LT mainly contributed fouls. This year he seems to be more aware of what is happening.
Of course, we won't really know what is happening until we get into ACC play (which is where last year's team fell apart). But I think we have a real shot this year -- I realize we have a potential post problem, but other than that, we are pretty solid. And we have a genius for a coach. I am still pumped.

[Papa Moon]

i agree, while its really fun to watch these types of games you have to remember that they were playing a DIII school in shaw. However, scoring 134 points is pretty good sign that we will be getting up and down a little more this year than last. It was also really good to see that 10 guys scored in double figures and nobody played over 25 min. even though it was shaw, paulus 6 ast. to 3 turnovers is not bad, but it was good to see nolan with 7 ast. and 0 turnovers. Overall the team looks much better than last year and looks like a tighter unit in terms of team chemistry. Should be a fun year, and lets hope it translates into the real games. Oh yeah, duke played zone for most of the second half.

[CDu]

I think I took that into account. I was just trying to compare our players this year to our players last year. Last year it seemed to me that LT mainly contributed fouls. This year he seems to be more aware of what is happening.
Of course, we won't really know what is happening until we get into ACC play (which is where last year's team fell apart). But I think we have a real shot this year -- I realize we have a potential post problem, but other than that, we are pretty solid. And we have a genius for a coach. I am still pumped.

I'm pumped too, and there is certainly the potential for this team to do very exciting things. I just don't think we can really draw any player comparisons between this year and last year based on tonight. Comparing play against Shaw with play against D-1 schools is really apples and oranges, especially with regard to Thomas. I'm very hopeful that Thomas is much improved and that the freshman are going to be very good this year. But I just don't think that can really be determined until they play against real competition.

[du_bb1]

a fun game to watch--am sure the players are glad to play against someone else for a change--it will be a fun team to watch develope over the year.

The zone, a way to not embarass Shaw???? against the man D they really barely got off shots-and not good ones??

[NovaScotian]

the first post REALLY understated a few things:

singler is better than just great - hes going to be unreal. he looked smooth as anything and was probably the best player on the court at times.

nolan also looked a lot better than a compliment to paulus - he looks looked more like hes soon going to replace paulus - he handled the offense incredibly well, showed off on a two back to back SICK passes to singler (the awesomeness of which can not be emphasized enough) and he proved he could finish in traffic quite well, all while playing better defense than paulus. greg meanwhile, had nothing to show other than his long range shooting (which we already knew, but ok), and often seemed frustrated bringing the ball up on slower sets. hes still backing in to the defender almost every possession.

oh and henderson was UNREAL. seriously, he words cant even explain how nasty he was tonight.

that said, i do agree with your assessments of brian, demarcus and scheyer.

granted this was all against probably the worst team we'll play all year, but whatever.

ALSO - marty got VERY little pt.

[shadowfax336]

I was sitting in the second row, and my first impression was quite simple. Shaw was the worst team I've seen in Cameron besides the pick-up ones playing illegally when it was too cold out in K-ville last year and a friend with connections hooked us up. So the rest of this comes with that in mind.
Henderson was spectacular. He was just in another class athletically from everybody else on the floor.
Thomas looked very comfortable. He won't be scoring a lot of those buckets against D-I comp, but his energy and D looked very solid.
Singler looks like the real deal. I've now watched him play twice and have yet to see him make a stupid play.
Paulus looked MUCH steadier than last year. Those 6 assists were good, some of them were very nice, and of the 3 turnovers, 2 bounced off people's hands (well one was off Zoubek's face) and the other was a misplaced alley oop from half court, a play that we probably won't be trying against teams not named Shaw.
Smith and Paulus seem to complement each other very well, with both having different strengths and both looking worthy of playing time.
Zoubek looked lost at points tonight, and immobile at others. It looks like he may not be all the way back from that injury yet.


All in all, while I take the result with a grain of salt, this game got me VERY excited for the season. If nothing else this team is going to be a lot of fun to watch this year

[DevilAlumna]

I was sitting in the second row, and my first impression was quite simple. Shaw was the worst team I've seen in Cameron besides the pick-up ones playing illegally when it was too cold out in K-ville last year and a friend with connections hooked us up. So the rest of this comes with that in mind.

....

All in all, while I take the result with a grain of salt, this game got me VERY excited for the season. If nothing else this team is going to be a lot of fun to watch this year

Brickey did say that Shaw was missing two players (scrubs or starters, I don't know). Still, was it as painful to watch in person as it sounded on the radio?

As for this team being fun to watch, maybe I'm too much of a pessimist, but I think it's going to be more tension-filled than fun! I can see moments of sheer, unadulterated, incredible basketball flights of fancy; coupled with times of bewildering "what in the eh-eee-doublehockeysticks are they doing out there" moments. Here's hoping there's more of the former, but I think it may be one heck of a roller-coaster season.

[mepanchin]

It was fun to watch but I want to reemphasize the notion that it's easy to look good when you are playing a team that went 3-25 in Division II last year. We beat them by 51 last year, and they are supposedly better this year (I think?) and we won by 79. So that's good, I guess?

Singler did look good, but he is just a very solid, fluid player and it was easy as hell for him to get easy baskets because their tallest player was 6'7" and smaller than him. A lot of his points were just open lay-ups but he certainly showed why he was such a high recruit.

Henderson put on a dunking show but needed to be more aggressive in the half-court. That will come I am sure.

Smith and Paulus looked good in transition, esp Paulus who just looks more comfortable in this style.

For all Shaw's problems, (lack of size being the big one really), their guards were not slow. They weren't Ty Lawson fast either, but they were probably 5'6"-5'8" and were they 6'5", might have played D1 ball somewhere. It was good to see the D pressure them and I like the switch into zone.

For all the praise though, there were some things that were... hmm, not concerning but not great. We were only 8 for 28 from 3. Taylor struggled tonight only hitting 2 of 7, and Scheyer's shot was off all night. DeMarcus took TOO MANY possessions, shooting 5 for 16 from the field. Meanwhile Singler and Henderson were a combined 16 for 22. I know Nelson took 24% of our possessions last year, but he did it somewhat inefficiently compared to what we hope to get from our offense this year. Singler and Henderson had usage rates of 21.6% and 17% respectively - and I think all of us want them to use more possessions! Thankfully it's just an exhibition, so we'll see what happens when the games start for real.

It was certainly a fun game to watch - we played 95 possessions (!) which is something like mach 5 or so in college basketball. We averaged about 66 last year. Obviously a big part of this was the fact that we got 21 steals in the game and that won't happen against quality opposition, but it doesn't change the fact that our guys were PUSHING it up every possession.

Most importantly, the guys looked like they were having fun. Even in the exhibitions last year, they looked like the game wasn't fun. It was good to see.

Fun game. Should be a fun season.

edit: But some good about Nelson is that he hit 6 of 6 from the line.

[captmojo]

Brickey did say that Shaw was missing two players (scrubs or starters, I don't know). Still, was it as painful to watch in person as it sounded on the radio?

As for this team being fun to watch, maybe I'm too much of a pessimist, but I think it's going to be more tension-filled than fun! I can see moments of sheer, unadulterated, incredible basketball flights of fancy; coupled with times of bewildering "what in the eh-eee-doublehockeysticks are they doing out there" moments. Here's hoping there's more of the former, but I think it may be one heck of a roller-coaster season.

This is life with Freshmen. Especially in an up-tempo game style. It's gonna be "grab-a-hold-o-sompin and hang on!" I really like this team.;)

[dukelifer]

First impressions seeing the team play outside of practice. First, Singler is the best player on the team. This is not a knock on anyone- but his overall game is a notch above everyone. He plays under control and is fluid in all his movements. He can lead the break and is a great finisher. He may not be able to block shots like McBob and is not as bouncy- but he is a much better offensive player and a much better fit for the team. King is a player. He is not the most athletic or fastest guy, but he has a nose for the ball and a high Bball IQ. He seemed to be in the right place at the right time more times than not. He is a gunner- but he can do more than that and is a pretty good rebounder. There are guys who can just play- and he is one of those guys. Smith started as PG. He has an okay handle- but can get to the hoop. He is long and sees the floor well. Duke is fast with Smith running the show and it looks like K really wants to push tempo. This team is going to run and run.

It will be really hard to keep the Frosh out of the starting lineup or even the ending lineup. They will make the sophs better. Lance is still a bit thin but was active. G had some nice dunks and putbacks. He still is not quite there yet- still can't figure that guy out- but this is not the game to do that. Scheyer looks like he did last year- but last year he was really good at times. Zoubek actually looked okay. No travels that I saw, no bad fouls. He had a few nice follows and some nice boards. yes he was 8-9 inches bigger than anyone on Shaw but still - not a bad game by the big guy. Paulus and Nelson looked good. Both may be the toughest players on the team and you know what you get with them. I think having Paulus share the point is a good move. This team is going to run and they effectively need lots of players. Of course, McClure is not out there and Pocius is not 100%- so there are even more options.

So we saw tonight a team that can push the ball, play 10+ guys and even play zone. K seems to have taken a few ideas from coaching his national team. The frosh are very good and that will make the sophs better. It will be interesting to watch them develop when they start playing decent teams.

[natedog4ever]

One thing that is independent of the opponent - Henderson is much bigger than he was last year.

The other thing I noticed - Smith is the only person who can get the ball to Zoubek in a place where he can score. Unfortunately, by that point Smith can also just dunk it himself, so it's sort of a wash.

[Waynne]

It was a good start to the season, but this game had no connection with reality. The BW scrimmage was far more competitive. I can't figure out how Shaw outshot us from three point range- 35% (7-20) vs. 28.6% (2-28). Our guys must have been rushing their shots? I don't think that will happen too many times this year.

[Wander]

That was fun as hell. Play of the game: Henderson has the entire open floor, but intentionally slows down to try to draw the foul as he's dunking. And does.

Also, the open field tackle on Scheyer was hilarious, just because of the sheer absurdity of it.

[RelativeWays]

I think it was 35 to 5 when I had to stop listening to meet family for dinner. Poor Robert Brickey. Still, I'm excited to go see the exhibition against Barton on Saturday. See you guys there.

[Bob Green]

It was a good start to the season, but this game had no connection with reality. The BW scrimmage was far more competitive. I can't figure out how Shaw outshot us from three point range- 35% (7-20) vs. 28.6% (2-28). Our guys must have been rushing their shots? I don't think that will happen too many times this year.

I agree that 28.6% from behind the arc is not impressive, but we were 8-28 not 2-28. 2-28 would be 7.1%.

We need to shoot the 3-ball better in future games.

[jgehtland]

ALSO - marty got VERY little pt.

??? Marty got at least 10 minutes off the bench. Enough to score in double figures. He may have gotten the least minutes, but c'mon, he just came back off an injury. How many minutes did you want him to get?

[lavell12]

not to take anything away from Duke's performance tonight but I think we could get a team of guys on this web site that would be able to challenge Shaw.

[elvis14]

not to take anything away from Duke's performance tonight but I think we could get a team of guys on this web site that would be able to challenge Shaw.

I'm just curious, how many more posters are going to tell us how bad Shaw was and tell us that observations mean nothing because of the competition? I think it's been repeated enough. I didn't get to see the game and I'm smart enough to read observations and relate them to the level of competition. So, please give us more observations :D Keep telling me how good Singler and Henderson are and who looked good and how. I know not much looks bad after a game like this but that doesn't mean I can't revel in a 134 point performance after enduring last years stall ball!!!!

In all seriousness, thanks for posting information for those of us that didn't even get out of work until after the game is over.

Elvis

[Carlos]

I'd just like to reinforce that Shaw may be the worst team I've ever seen in Cameron. Just bad, bad, bad...

[Houston]

Who were the starters?

[riverside6]

I'm just curious, how many more posters are going to tell us how bad Shaw was and tell us that observations mean nothing because of the competition? I think it's been repeated enough. I didn't get to see the game and I'm smart enough to read observations and relate them to the level of competition. So, please give us more observations :D Keep telling me how good Singler and Henderson are and who looked good and how. I know not much looks bad after a game like this but that doesn't mean I can't revel in a 134 point performance after enduring last years stall ball!!!!

In all seriousness, thanks for posting information for those of us that didn't even get out of work until after the game is over.

Elvis

E, what you forgot to mention was that you have to put this game in perspective and take into account the opponent, you know?

In all seriousness though, the offensive aggressiveness was even more than I expected, taking quick shots and really spreading the floor.

Defensively, I'm curious what others think about the zone. Tactic to keep from running the score up or something we should expect to see more of this year?

Here is my report from the game (http://www.scacchoops.com/forms/tt_NewsBreaker_External.asp?NB=929) which I posted on my site.

[mepanchin]

Team shot 38% from behind the arc last year - we just had an off night.

Paulus, Henderson, Nelson, Singler, Thomas started.

[throatybeard]

I'm still mad that Robert Brickey has been eliminated in the favorite player competition.

[jimsumner]

First, I'm not entirely sure I understand the mindset that says we can't learn anything useful about this game but we need a thread anyway. You can learn something from every practice. Sure, it was a pre-season game against an overmatched team. But I'm pretty sure nobody expected ten guys scoring in double figures, 134 points, or a 79-point victory margin. Duke was impressive.

The most important lesson is that Duke clearly is committed to the up-tempo game K has promised all preseason. Duke looked to run at every opportunity, off steals, rebounds, even made baskets, regardless of who had the ball. I can't tell you how many passes were forward to guys streaking for the basket but it was a lot. FWIW, I suspect this kind of game might have some appeal to recruits.

Substitutions were frequent and productive. Duke is more aggressive this year, with and without the ball, and aims to dictate the terms of the game.

And this was without McClure, who'll make Duke 11 deep. Is K going to play 11 guys against the heavies on the schedule? Not likely. But he has options he hasn't had in awhile.

Duke did play some zone and K said after the game that it would be a part of the scheme this season.

K attributed the poor 3-point shooting to players not getting their feet set. Something to work on. Spacing was pretty good on 3s, however.

Lance Thomas' improvement over last year was obvious and significant, even accounting for the level of competition. He simply is much more comfortable handling the ball, he's a key to the press, and he's playing much more under control than last year. That deer-in-the-headlight look was gone tonight.

Some lineup pattens emerged. I don't believe Paulus and Smith were ever on the floor at the same time but one of them was always on the floor until the end of the game when Jordan Davidson went in. Singler and King were the 4/5 rotation a few times but most of the game either Thomas or Zoubek was in the game.

Numerous high-light reel plays, Henderson, Singler, Nelson, Pocius. K said after the game that this team really wanted to run and the enthusiasm for the up-tempo game was palpable. Of course, somebody--probably several somebodies--is going to slow them down and make them play half-court but I think the converse is equally true; Duke is going to force some good teams out of their comfort zones.

Nelson didn't shoot well from the field but was 6-6 from the line, with 8 boards, 3 steals, 3 assists, and a single turnover; Duke shot 77.8% from the line. That will come in mighty handy in close games. 25 assists, 13 turnovers in a very fast-paced game.

And yes, the freshmen all looked good. Smith was much, much better with the ball than in the b/w game, King did some nice things other than just shoot the ball, and Singler is already a mighty good player and he's going to get better. He just has a feel for the game and the skills to exploit that feel.

Robert Brickey is a class act and I really hope he pulls this program together.

Obviously, this wasn't a representative test, it's not going to be smooth sailing every night, and Duke has some things to work on. But based on tonight's showing, there's real reason for optimism this season.

[LetItBD08]

Was Marty out there at all during any man to man defense? I could only remember him there while Duke was experimenting with some zone in the second half (and in my opinion he was pretty comfortable and effective in it). But yeah, I guess it's a safe bet we won't see that much zone from K during the season.

[eran]

That was a LOT of fun and MAN am I glad that basketball has started again.

After seeing that kind of offensive display, I'm hoping what Dawkins said in the Game Day event about wanting to score 100+ every game is true.

It was nice to hear Brickey get a good reception from the crowd and it was really nice to see that Jordan Davidson got the biggest cheer of the night when he hit a jumper.

I'd agree that I didn't see Smith playing at the same time as Paulus.

Zoubek better get his hands up and ready to catch the ball or Paulus is going to break his nose with the ball.

Now I can't wait for Saturday!

[shadowfax336]

Has anybody mentioned that Shaw looked like they got lost on their way to the pickup game in Wilson?

[Cameron]

After seeing that kind of offensive display, I'm hoping what Dawkins said in the Game Day event about wanting to score 100+ every game is true.

I certainly wouldn't mind watching it:) There is nothing more beautiful than watching fast break, spread the court, hit the three, 90 to 100 point basketball. It's the way the game was meant to be played. Outside of any team Duke, my two most favorite teams in history to watch were 1990 Loyola Marymount and 1991 Oklahoma. Obviously Kimble, Gathers, Fryer and company were legendary, as nearly every college basketball fan knows their story by now, but Billy Ball in Norman was just as beautiful. Coach Tubbs, for a good stretch there, had his teams at Oklahoma and later Texas Christian scoring over 100 per night and doing it in style.

I remember watching Brent Price, who I believe transferred to Oklahoma after his sophomore campaign at South Carolina, pour in nearly 60 against LMU and Terrell Lowry in a 1991 contest. I have the game tape recorded somewhere but I think he hit 12 triples that night. It was ridiculous. The Sooners won that one 172-112, in what I believe was the highest scoring Division I game ever.

Now that's basketball:)

[zingit]

I had to leave at halftime for a birthday party, but I pretty much agree with what people have been saying here. A couple things that I don't think have been mentioned yet:

1. As fun as the up-tempo style was, I thought the refs sucked some of the fun out of it because they seemed to call the game very closely. There was a stretch in the first half where it seemed like every possession was ending in a foul, resulting in a very choppy game.

2. IIRC, Lance made a mid-range jumper in this game, and in the BW game too. I don't remember him doing that last year, so good for him.

I am so psyched for this season!

[micah75]

I'm just curious, how many more posters are going to tell us how bad Shaw was and tell us that observations mean nothing because of the competition? I think it's been repeated enough.

In all seriousness, thanks for posting information for those of us that didn't even get out of work until after the game is over.

Elvis

Well said, was thinking the same thing. It almost seems like there is some sort of subliminally programmed fear of sharing anything positive or exciting with the rest of us, lest there be severe scolding, scorn, and chastisement for not tempering their observations with lavish caveats and disclaimers.

Nonetheless, thankyou to those who stepped forward and shared. Most of us didn't get to watch the game, so I, and I'm sure many others, value your insights.

[VaDukie]

1. Henderson is an unbelievable athlete. He went up for a few dunks today and it didn't even look like he was trying to jump - it was more like he skipped and wham, he's 3 feet in the air. It's really incredible.
2. Singler and Smith have a lot of chemistry together. They had a lot going in the Blue-White game and you saw more of it today. When Smith threw his pass under his legs to Singler and he slammed it, Smith jumped up and down on the sidelines. They are going to put up some serious highlights together.
3. Zoubek looked better than in B-W. Competition is obviously nill, but he was moving faster. I think he might be in good shape by the time ACC rolls around.
4. Paulus, Scheyer, and Nelson all did about what you would expect.
5. Marty looked good. Hit two 3's, made his free throws, and had a great finish under the basket. I hope he gets some minutes this year because he can definitely contribute.

All in all, saw a lot of things to be excited about. I think we'll be pretty sharp by the time we hit Maui.

[lavell12]

I think you have to learn about individuals in games like this you can't learn really much about the team as a whole. The team last year why it didn't score near as many points last year but it blew them out too in the preseason. All I am saying look at the performance of individuals here more then the team as a whole.

[captmojo]

I certainly wouldn't mind watching it:) There is nothing more beautiful than watching fast break, spread the court, hit the three, 90 to 100 point basketball. It's the way the game was meant to be played. Outside of any team Duke, my two most favorite teams in history to watch were 1990 Loyola Marymount and 1991 Oklahoma. Obviously Kimble, Gathers, Fryer and company were legendary, as nearly every college basketball fan knows their story by now, but Billy Ball in Norman was just as beautiful. Coach Tubbs, for a good stretch there, had his teams at Oklahoma and later Texas Christian scoring over 100 per night and doing it in style.

I remember watching Brent Price, who I believe transferred to Oklahoma after his sophomore campaign at South Carolina, pour in nearly 60 against LMU and Terrell Lowry in a 1991 contest. I have the game tape recorded somewhere but I think he hit 12 triples that night. It was ridiculous. The Sooners won that one 172-112, in what I believe was the highest scoring Division I game ever.

Now that's basketball:)

I was never a fan of Paul Westhead's style because it took an attitude that defense was just somewhere to be until you got the ball back. Tubbs, on the other hand, I believe took great efforts to train his teams to play D but the teams were not that receptive.

This year's Duke squad looks to be aggressively going out to beat the other guy down the floor and achieve the offensive purpose of the game, putting the ball through the nets. Last year's edition, in direct comparison, only seemed to be trying not to lose. Coupling this offensive style with a variety of defensive looks, with players who can jump through the ceiling, shows the ability of a team that can go far and be extremely dangerous to all opponents. All the cogs in this wheel are vitally important, so let's all pray for their good health. 9F9F9F9Fcontinuum

[millerecu]

All I can say as a Duke fan that just left the Triangle area............Is it 11/12 at 7 pm yet? As much as I hear from ya'll and friends that were at the game last night I can NOT wait to see them on TV. My friend left me a message at half time and I quote "all i have to say is one thing 68-17 at half". I could not have had a bigger smile on my face when I got that. 9f9f9f

[Indoor66]

Shaw YouTube Highlights

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1V7Ef05r0oA

[rthomas]

I couldn't get completely through the post game thread. But I'm curious. Did we play zone d?

http://www.dukebasketballreport.com/images/shaw/13.jpg

[Carlos]

Duke played lots of zone - partly as something to use this season and partly as a mercy to Shaw who couldn't get a shot off against the man to man.

[Patrick Yates]

I didn't see the game, so I have a question. How did the Rebounding look? The stats don't have a dominant rebounder for Duke (I was kind of hoping someone would have 13+ boards vs such small comp).

I realize that several factors played into this, ie them having trouble getting a shot off, the high number of turnovers we forced, us being effective on o (thus not having many chances for O rebounds), as well as K limiting the minutes of the players. I guess what I am asking is were the Duke rebounders getting into good position and blocking out for potential rebounds (even if the opportunity never materialized).

Our ability to run will be predicated on turnovers and rebounding, the two things necessary to run. Against Shaw we had plenty of turnovers, and boards I guess. Against quality opponents, there will be fewer turnovers, probably, so we will have to rebound. Will we be able to?

Carlos, I trust your uncolored opinion more than most. What do you think?

Patrick Yates

[Carlos]

Well said, was thinking the same thing. It almost seems like there is some sort of subliminally programmed fear of sharing anything positive or exciting with the rest of us, lest there be severe scolding, scorn, and chastisement for not tempering their observations with lavish caveats and disclaimers.


It's not some sort of fear of sharing anything positive an incurring chastisement; it's that... and I don't know if I've mentioned this yet.... it's that Shaw is really, really, bad.

Sure, there's lots to be learned from how the team looked, but what the really big unknown - how Duke will respond to a team with superior size - won't be answered until New Mexico State comes to town. The Aggies have a bunch of size starting with Martin Iti whose name may be familiar to some because he started his career at UNC-Charlotte. He averaged like 6 points a game as a freshman and declared for the draft. He pulled out of the draft when someone may have pointed out to him that "uh... you're not going to be drafted even if this thing goes 6 rounds" so he went back to Charlotte, averaged 5 ppg, and then transferred. Still he's 7-0 and has plenty of game experience.

The Aggies also have a 6-9 Brazilian kid who must not be all that good because he still has a first and last name. When Hatila Passos becomes just Hatila you'll know he can play.

The Aggies frontline could be even stronger if freshman Herb Pope ever makes it on the court. Pope originally committed to Pittsburgh then backed away from that verbal and was considered a lock for Kansas State when Bobby Huggins was coaching there because of Huggy's close ties with Pope's AAU coach. Then, almost out of the blue, he committed to Reggie Theus at NMSU only to find out a few months later that Theus was leaving the program. Oh yeah, along the way he got shot 4 times.

Now, Pope is facing more struggles, this time with the NCAA. He failed to meet the NCAA initial eligibility standards but was given a waiver which allowed him to start practicing. But then the waiver was pulled and, according to the NMSU coach, the NCAA is "questioning the validity of the courses he was advised to take."

color me surprised if Pope every plays this season

[pfrduke]

I didn't see the game, so I have a question. How did the Rebounding look? The stats don't have a dominant rebounder for Duke (I was kind of hoping someone would have 13+ boards vs such small comp).

I realize that several factors played into this, ie them having trouble getting a shot off, the high number of turnovers we forced, us being effective on o (thus not having many chances for O rebounds), as well as K limiting the minutes of the players. I guess what I am asking is were the Duke rebounders getting into good position and blocking out for potential rebounds (even if the opportunity never materialized).

Our ability to run will be predicated on turnovers and rebounding, the two things necessary to run. Against Shaw we had plenty of turnovers, and boards I guess. Against quality opponents, there will be fewer turnovers, probably, so we will have to rebound. Will we be able to?

Carlos, I trust your uncolored opinion more than most. What do you think?

Patrick Yates

Well, the team rebounding was excellent. We got better than 50% of our own misses, and close to 80% of theirs. That's really, really good. On an individual level, Zoubek, Thomas and Nelson had great games on the offensive glass, and Taylor King had a big performance on D - 8 boards in just 25 chances.

[sandinmyshoes]

I don't mind the reminders of how bad Shaw was. That way expectations don't get so skewed leading to overreaction when the team faces a more challenging team. The worst thing about playing a team like Shaw is that it does not expose weaknesses Duke will need to work on, at least not to a casual fan like myself.

I do like the zone. It could be very useful against a team like UNC, unless their three point shooting has improved from last year.

[alteran]

a fun game to watch--am sure the players are glad to play against someone else for a change--it will be a fun team to watch develope over the year.

The zone, a way to not embarass Shaw???? against the man D they really barely got off shots-and not good ones??

The zone occurred for about the last ten minutes of the game, so I presume slowing down the game and keeping down the score was a factor in running it. (Knowing K, practicing it was a factor as well). As you can see, this didn't work-- the zone devastated Shaw and created a lot of fast breaks.

[jimsumner]

"I was kind of hoping someone would have 13+ boards vs such small comp). "

Keep in mind that Duke had a whole bunch of people playing around 20 mpg. It's hard to get 13+ boards in 20 minutes.

[whereinthehellami]

Thanks for all of the observations. Its appreciated.

[alteran]

I'm just curious, how many more posters are going to tell us how bad Shaw was and tell us that observations mean nothing because of the competition? I think it's been repeated enough.

Amen, brother. We get it, we get it.

We know we shouldn't bet our house in Vegas based on Duke's performance against Shaw. We know that it's likely some of the guys that looked good last night might not fair well against top-tier competition. We're holding off on our "Triple Crown" t-shirt purchases for now.

[CDu]

It's not some sort of fear of sharing anything positive an incurring chastisement; it's that... and I don't know if I've mentioned this yet.... it's that Shaw is really, really, bad.

Sure, there's lots to be learned from how the team looked, but what the really big unknown - how Duke will respond to a team with superior size - won't be answered until New Mexico State comes to town. The Aggies have a bunch of size starting with Martin Iti whose name may be familiar to some because he started his career at UNC-Charlotte. He averaged like 6 points a game as a freshman and declared for the draft. He pulled out of the draft when someone may have pointed out to him that "uh... you're not going to be drafted even if this thing goes 6 rounds" so he went back to Charlotte, averaged 5 ppg, and then transferred. Still he's 7-0 and has plenty of game experience.

The Aggies also have a 6-9 Brazilian kid who must not be all that good because he still has a first and last name. When Hatila Passos becomes just Hatila you'll know he can play.

The Aggies frontline could be even stronger if freshman Herb Pope ever makes it on the court. Pope originally committed to Pittsburgh then backed away from that verbal and was considered a lock for Kansas State when Bobby Huggins was coaching there because of Huggy's close ties with Pope's AAU coach. Then, almost out of the blue, he committed to Reggie Theus at NMSU only to find out a few months later that Theus was leaving the program. Oh yeah, along the way he got shot 4 times.

Now, Pope is facing more struggles, this time with the NCAA. He failed to meet the NCAA initial eligibility standards but was given a waiver which allowed him to start practicing. But then the waiver was pulled and, according to the NMSU coach, the NCAA is "questioning the validity of the courses he was advised to take."

color me surprised if Pope every plays this season


This is all I was trying to say up front. Shaw is just so bad and (more importantly) so small that there's really nothing to gain from this game other than the general style of play and the health of our players. Saying that Thomas looks more comfortable is a nice thought, but I don't think it's realistic to make that claim based on Shaw. It's very easy to look comfortable when you're 2-3 inches taller and far superior in talent to the opposition's big men. If we show similar trends early against D-1 competition, that'll mean something.

Again, there's plenty of reason for optimism with this team. There's loads of potential here. And I could see being excited about the team based on the game, as it was fun to listen to. But making conclusions about where players are from this game just doesn't seem right.

[Devilsfan]

I can't wait until we play someone good, with some size and athleticism to see how good we really are. The ACC seems weak overall this year but a true test will come when we face a "loaded" chapel hill team with 3 bigs, talented wings and a jet fast guard. Beating them will really be gratifying for our team and its fans.

[alteran]

There's smarter basketball heads than mine posting here who saw the game last night, so let me say that some of these observations may be off, and I don't mind being corrected.

I coulda SWORN Paulus and Smith were on the court together at some points last night. I'm thinking midway through the first half with Nelson and Singler and someone else. I didn't note that the lineup seemed any more dominant than the other lineups.

Henderson noted on the radio show that they've been practicing the zone a fair amount and plan on using it this year.

For you Pocious fans-- the DBR noted that Marty attempted 2 reverse layups, only making one. They may have forgotten that Marty was absolutely CREAMED by a Shaw player on the one he "missed" (and shot freethrows).

I absolutely do NOT think Smith will be displacing Paulus at PG (as someone in this thread speculated). I think we may have the ideal controlled-upperclassman-mentoring-talented-underclassman PG situation. On the fast break where Nolan made that insane between-the-legs pass to (Singler?) for a dunk, I glanced over to the bench to see Paulus' reaction. He might have been the most excited person on the bench.

I also glanced at Coach K to see if the "showboatsmanship" ticked him off. No idea. Man, I'd hate to play him in poker. ;-)

[MChambers]

I can't wait until we play someone good, with some size and athleticism to see how good we really are. The ACC seems weak overall this year but a true test will come when we face a "loaded" chapel hill team with 3 bigs, talented wings and a jet fast guard. Beating them will really be gratifying for our team and its fans.

Beating them is always gratifying, whether or not they are loaded.

[Troublemaker]

I would still expect the zone to be used very situationally. I think we'll only see it, if at all, in games where the guards are excellent ball-handlers and penetrators but can't shoot. I'm not sure how many opponents fit that description, but I don't think we'll be seeing it every game, even if just for a little bit. Fun game last night.

[EarlJam]

I understand it, yet, I don't understand it (all the criticism about analyzing the team and such).

Duke played a game. Fans watched. It's quite natural to make observations. That's what this board is all about.

Yes, it was Shaw and they are most "Shawful" (sorry, couldn't resist). They stink like big piles of stinky in Stinkland, the capitol of StinkNation - but Duke has to start somewhere. What did we want, for the first game to be against UCLA or that team that Roy Williams coaches?

Personally, I think there IS something to be learned from this game. I think this team has 'tude, (something lacking last year) and that we are going to have a take it to 'em/rip their throats out mentality all year.

I hope I am right. That will be a pleasure to watch.

-Earl O' the Jam

[Wander]

I would still expect the zone to be used very situationally. I think we'll only see it, if at all, in games where the guards are excellent ball-handlers and penetrators but can't shoot. I'm not sure how many opponents fit that description, but I don't think we'll be seeing it every game, even if just for a little bit.

Marquette fits that description perfectly, assuming we meet up with them in Maui.

[jimsumner]

"What did we want, for the first game to be against UCLA or that team that Roy Williams coaches"

Remember the Big Four Tournament? We actually would start the regular season against an arch-rival. That's why the coaches hated it.

[mepanchin]

I didn't see the game, so I have a question. How did the Rebounding look? The stats don't have a dominant rebounder for Duke (I was kind of hoping someone would have 13+ boards vs such small comp).


I think the concern should be in post D but not really rebounding - I have never been concerned about rebounding. Last year our team was a really good defensive rebounding team given Duke's history. While we lose McRoberts, I don't exactly see the compelling argument why Zoubek or Thomas can't be as good a defensive rebounder as McRoberts - and both will almost certainly be better offensive rebounders. Thomas is only 1 or 2 inches shorter than McRoberts was and probably has a better vertical. And only weighs about 10 lbs less.

Singler and King both looked to have a very good "nose for the ball" as they say. King also has those long arms that help him grab balls that he really shouldn't get with his ups and height. I'm not complaining.

Now can these guys guard Hansbrough and Hickson and Thompson and whomever? I dunno - maybe? That's sort of impossible to say at this point. I'm optimistic though because Lance looked much more in control than he did last year and still played with the kind of intensity you love to see from anyone. He's also very strong even if he looks somewhat thin.

[Troublemaker]

Marquette fits that description perfectly, assuming we meet up with them in Maui.

That's whom I'm rooting for to advance in Maui. NMSU might be the first decent test for our big guys as Carlos mentioned, and Marquette might be the first good test for our guards.

[Oh Canada]

We don't get these games in Ontario yet so to see the boxscore the to's by Zoubek and Paulus looked high. You explained those by Paulus but were Z's the typically "travelling" variety or was he forcing his decisions?

[mepanchin]

I don't think he had more than 1 turnover from traveling. One of his turnovers was almost a VERY good pass that he made after establishing good position in the post and trying to hit a cutting guard (Scheyer I think). I don't recall the others.

[EarlJam]

More observations from last night's game...

146

A. Bored out of his mind
B. Looks guilty, is about to steal a drink of water from the Gatorade cooler
C. Is looking up at some dude in the upper section who is giving her the finger
D. Taking a picture of the refs arse
E. Infant just pooped, hence, the distance
F. These two clearly aren’t paying attention, and couldn’t care less who wins
G. This guy is in a boot. EarlJam was in a boot in August
H. Cool reflection of ref indicates supreme quality of floor paint, finish
I. Bandana, or porcelain “mind-meld” ring (Star Trek, season two, episode four)

-EarlJam

[throatybeard]

EarlJam has adequately summed up my feelings about exhibition games.

[riverside6]

its that kind of analysis you can't get anywhere else!

[Carlos]

Patrick - as others have noted, the rebounding was fine and the reason that nobody had a dominating performance on the glass is because nobody played more than 25 minutes. If you want to extrapolate playing time out to 30 minutes for everyone then Zoubek would have had 13.5 rebounds and King, Thomas, and Nelson all would have had double figures as well. Even better, Jordan "Baby Moses" Davidson would have had 15 rebounds under the same approach so maybe we've found the key to our success on the glass.

Regardless, the rebounding stats from this game are likely the most meaningless of any of the numbers because Duke was facing a 6-6, 6-5, 6-2 frontline. One thing which does bear monitoring was the number of times that Duke was able to get rebounds by simply out jumping an opposing player who had better position. That works well when you have 6 inches on a guy, but when you're dealing with a player of similar size, well, not so much.

[Carlos]

Another turnover from either Zoubek or Paulus came when Greg threw a crisp pass that Brian attempted to catch with his nose. Zoub actually made great contact with the ball but alas was unable to pinch it between his eyebrows firmly enough to hold it.

Zoubek also took what looked like a ball to the man region when a Shaw player was trying to throw it off him while going out of bounds.

[socaldukie]

While it was great to see Markie go 100% from the line (6-6), I have to wonder about Nolan's 50% (5-10) night... It's a good sign to see him get to the line that often. But, we got to convert.

All in all a good night considering it is afterall a "scrimmage" and to be looked at from that perpsective. Should be a fun team this year!

Aloha, andrew

[CDu]

I understand it, yet, I don't understand it (all the criticism about analyzing the team and such).

Duke played a game. Fans watched. It's quite natural to make observations. That's what this board is all about.

Yes, it was Shaw and they are most "Shawful" (sorry, couldn't resist). They stink like big piles of stinky in Stinkland, the capitol of StinkNation - but Duke has to start somewhere. What did we want, for the first game to be against UCLA or that team that Roy Williams coaches?

Personally, I think there IS something to be learned from this game. I think this team has 'tude, (something lacking last year) and that we are going to have a take it to 'em/rip their throats out mentality all year.

I hope I am right. That will be a pleasure to watch.

-Earl O' the Jam

I'm perfectly fine with playing patsies early in the season. It's nice to get a warmup in a semi-competitive environment where everybody on our team can play together. I don't think people are complaining about that.

What people are complaining about is the rush to make statements about where the team is based on that game. I think we should just take it for what it's worth rather than try to analyze the performance and project it's meaning for the season. Because the reality is that Shaw is just not good enough for that.

I thoroughly enjoyed the game. And I thoroughly enjoy analyzing (my wife accuses me of overanalyzing) games. But this game just really isn't worth much (if any) analysis.

[baltimoron]

I agree- can't read too much into this game since the opponent is very weak. A few things that look interesting from the box score though (I wasn't at the game so I'm not sure if I am correct on these points):

1. looks like the starting line up was Paulus, Nelson, Henderson, Thomas, Singler- is this correct? I imagine Henderson will be taking many minutes from Scheyer this year. This is a definite positive. Is Thomas a potential starter? Or do we go with Singler and four guards? Maybe depends on the night.

2. Scheyer appears to have had the one of the weaker performances.

[mpj96]

All of this analysis is helpful to folks like me who didn't get a chance to see them on tv or listen on a local radio station. Reading these pages has been a pleasure and a welcome relief -- finally, it is basketball season again.

[MulletMan]

1. I enjoyed watching the team push the ball up court. I think K will continue to be liberal with the substitution patern through out the year, and I was excited to see the many permutations that played together. This will make us difficult to defend as well.

2. Taylor King has no fear. This is good. I want him to shot every time he touches the ball.. I don't care if he's 0 for his last 10. We need someone who wants to shoot the ball... I think this will rub off on others. Paulus also looked for his shot in transition a lot.

3. I am suprised that no one noted WHEN we played zone. The zone appeared for the first time when Big Z subbed in. He patrolled the lane while the perimiter players trapped the ball at the foul line extended. It was sort of a 2-3 zone, but not really. I do not think the was to take it easy on Shaw.. if we were taking it easy there wouldn't have been trapping. I think we will see this a lot (in relative terms), because the 4 guys on the floor with Z were subbed out after about 3 minutes, and another 4 came in and continued to play the zone. This also might be an effort to keep Z out of foul trouble.

4. Gerald is huge. He hit a couple of nice long 2 point baskets. If he can reliably develop that shot, and defenders have to get up on him, some great drives will happen. He can drive it anyway, but a reliable jumper will make him that much more potent.

5. Paulus was able to keep the quicker Shaw guards in front of him most of the time. However, too many times he brought the ball up court with his back to the defender. This is not a good way to get into your offensive sets.

6. Yes Shaw was small, but I did like the effort of the guards crashing the boards. Markie especially.

7. Lance Thomas will be the next Nate James / Lee Melchionni... discuss.

8. Singler is an excellent player. He does many of the little things right. His jumper is not nearly as good as I was led to belive, but he will be a force. Is he the best player on the team? It might be too soon to make that statement. My big concern is that he has yet to play a game where he isn't the biggest player on the court aside from Z. Honestly, I often think this is the trouble with freshman... they've just never seent he size of college level basketball. I'm not sayiing the kid isn't a good player, just don't be disappointed if he has some games where he doesn't throw up a 20-10 line.

9. My favorite play of the game was in the second half when Duke was up something like 87-23 and there was a ball going out of bounds on the defensive end... Paulus dove out to save the ball, tossed it to Nelson and the break started. Exhibition game... up 60 points... diving for a loose ball. YES!

10. There was an undergrad in the front row wearing a mullet wig?!?! My friends couldn't decide if I should be flattered or offended. You decide!

[Clipsfan]

8. Singler is an excellent player. He does many of the little things right. His jumper is not nearly as good as I was led to belive, but he will be a force. Is he the best player on the team? It might be too soon to make that statement. My big concern is that he has yet to play a game where he isn't the biggest player on the court aside from Z. Honestly, I often think this is the trouble with freshman... they've just never seent he size of college level basketball. I'm not sayiing the kid isn't a good player, just don't be disappointed if he has some games where he doesn't throw up a 20-10 line.



You say that Singler's jumper isn't as good as you were led to believe, I'm curious as to what you mean. I know he only missed one shot all night, so it can't be because he clanked them. Does he have poor form?

[Wander]

1. looks like the starting line up was Paulus, Nelson, Henderson, Thomas, Singler- is this correct? I imagine Henderson will be taking many minutes from Scheyer this year. This is a definite positive. Is Thomas a potential starter? Or do we go with Singler and four guards? Maybe depends on the night.


The basic structure right now is:

One of Paulus/Smith
One of Thomas/Zoubek
One of Singler/King
Two of Henderson/Scheyer/Nelson (/Pocius to a significantly lesser extent)

On the floor at all times. I stress the "right now" part.

[MulletMan]

You say that Singler's jumper isn't as good as you were led to believe, I'm curious as to what you mean. I know he only missed one shot all night, so it can't be because he clanked them. Does he have poor form?

He missed one shot because the majority of his shots were lay ups. His jumper just isn't as smooth and effortless as I had expected. I suspect that when we play teams that are able to push him out a bit his FG% will drop.

(Of course that would be tru for about any player on the planet, so I've not really added much here, have I?)

I guess I'm saying I thought he had this silky shmoove jumper, when what he has is a decent jumper with a medium speed release.

[whereinthehellami]

Nice observations.


2. Taylor King has no fear. This is good. I want him to shot every time he touches the ball.. I don't care if he's 0 for his last 10. We need someone who wants to shoot the ball... I think this will rub off on others. Paulus also looked for his shot in transition a lot.

I wonder how this would effect team chemistry. I don't see a shortage of guys who want to shoot the rock and unless a freshman is on fire, I'm not sure he should be gunning. Now if hes on a roll than bombs away.


3. I am suprised that no one noted WHEN we played zone. The zone appeared for the first time when Big Z subbed in. He patrolled the lane while the perimiter players trapped the ball at the foul line extended. It was sort of a 2-3 zone, but not really. I do not think the was to take it easy on Shaw.. if we were taking it easy there wouldn't have been trapping. I think we will see this a lot (in relative terms), because the 4 guys on the floor with Z were subbed out after about 3 minutes, and another 4 came in and continued to play the zone. This also might be an effort to keep Z out of foul trouble.


I think this is great and should be used throughout the game to throw the other team off balance. I hope they stick with this and use it as I think it could really work. As long as Z stays within 5 feet of the hoop.

[riverside6]

Mullet, in all that I've seen and heard from others, Singler's shot will be fine. I certainly don't think his shot will be a defining aspect of his game, like Taylor King currently, but it is certainly something defenses will have to respect. I'm betting the coaching staff is thrilled that he isn't afraid to get in the lane and bang though.

[mepanchin]

DeMarcus has always been a very good rebounding guard. He's probably going to be the best rebounding guard in the ACC this year. I wouldn't be surprised if he was top 15 or 20 in D-rebounding rate among all players.

[baltimoron]

I'm curious about where Taylor King will fit in. Sounds like he is a freak shooter- which is always helpful. At 6-6, he can shoot over guards easily, but does he or will he get the strength to score and defend down low and rebound? Is he a small forward that can shoot? Or more of a large shooting guard? How is his handle?

[SilkyJ]

7. Lance Thomas will be the next Nate James / Lee Melchionni... discuss.


Um, thats not a good thing, at least from my perspective. I am expecting much more out of Lance, if not this year, then at least in his junior and senior years.



I guess I'm saying I thought he had this silky shmoove jumper, when what he has is a decent jumper with a medium speed release.

not everyone can have a silky j.


All of this analysis is helpful to folks like me who didn't get a chance to see them on tv or listen on a local radio station. Reading these pages has been a pleasure and a welcome relief -- finally, it is basketball season again.

amen brotha.

[Boston Dukie]

Since everyone is saying it's bad to make predictions based on one early game against a terrible Shaw, I will do just that:

1) Lance Thomas will be much better than Melchionni (who wouldn't be better than Lee?)

2) Singler will be the best player on the team, fresh of the year, and maybe (just maybe) all ACC

3) Henderson will start over Scheyer - I can't believe this was ever a debate, when you have world class talent, you invest in that talent for the future in the form of minutes. Scheyer is a solid player, but hard to see much upside from here

4) Paulus will start all year and surprise some people with how good he is in the open floor with his play making

5) Duke will play zone a bunch when Paulus and Scheyer (or Marty) are on the floor together. None of them can stop dribble penetration, so why not play zone? Especially if it allows you to play 11 guys deep and keep good scoring on the floor

6) Marty will actually play this year, and fill a highlight reel

7) Zoubek will not be good. I am not sure if it matters that he is not in shape, I saw him play 30 games last year, and he just has nothing to work with other than his height.

I think it's pretty clear where I hope I am wrong vs right

[JBDuke]

10. There was an undergrad in the front row wearing a mullet wig?!?! My friends couldn't decide if I should be flattered or offended. You decide!

Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. The Mullet lives!!!

[JBDuke]

I'm curious about where Taylor King will fit in. Sounds like he is a freak shooter- which is always helpful. At 6-6, he can shoot over guards easily, but does he or will he get the strength to score and defend down low and rebound? Is he a small forward that can shoot? Or more of a large shooting guard? How is his handle?

In just the little action we've seen him so far, Taylor has shown more than just his shot. We've seen him pump fake and dive to the basket. He had a sweet little baby hook for a score. His rebounding is pretty good to very good. He even blocked a couple of shots.

Now, take this all with a grain of salt - how he will do against more stringent opposition remains to be seen. But it sure looks like there is more to Taylor than his shot.

[Bob Green]

Since everyone is saying it's bad to make predictions based on one early game against a terrible Shaw, I will do just that:

1) Lance Thomas will be much better than Melchionni (who wouldn't be better than Lee?)

2) Singler will be the best player on the team, fresh of the year, and maybe (just maybe) all ACC

3) Henderson will start over Scheyer - I can't believe this was ever a debate, when you have world class talent, you invest in that talent for the future in the form of minutes. Scheyer is a solid player, but hard to see much upside from here

4) Paulus will start all year and surprise some people with how good he is in the open floor with his play making

5) Duke will play zone a bunch when Paulus and Scheyer (or Marty) are on the floor together. None of them can stop dribble penetration, so why not play zone? Especially if it allows you to play 11 guys deep and keep good scoring on the floor

6) Marty will actually play this year, and fill a highlight reel

7) Zoubek will not be good. I am not sure if it matters that he is not in shape, I saw him play 30 games last year, and he just has nothing to work with other than his height.

I think it's pretty clear where I hope I am wrong vs right

I agree with some of your points and disagree with others:

1. Agree but without the negativism toward Lee.
2. Agree.
3. Neutral. The Henderson/Scheyer debate is pointless. They both will play major minutes and average double digit points per game.
4. Agree. If Paulus stays healthy he will be a force to contend with due to his open court vision/passing and 3-point shot.
5. Disagree. Duke will remain a team whose primary defensive set is man-to-man. I agree that they will play some zone.
6. Neutral. Marty will be the last option off the bench. I'm a fan of his enthusiasm and he will get some minutes but I doubt he fills a highlight reel.
7. Disagree. Zoubek will show steady improvement. He will not develop into an All-ACC player this year, but watch out for Big Z in his junior and senior seasons.

[mgtr]

Bob Green-

Right on target. I don't understand all the negativity about Scheyer. He really understands the game, and does a lot things very well. Plus, he can shoot free throws -- a Duke hallmark. I also agree that Zoubek will be better than people expect. Of course he has some limitations, but he will be a good defensive player, if nothing else. And, I liked Lee. He could shoot and was a positive role model.

[lavell12]

Guys I think all the Freshmen will be good but remember in the exhibition and blue/white games Shavlik Randolph looked the star of his class which included JJ and Shelden.

[Bob Green]

Guys I think all the Freshmen will be good but remember in the exhibition and blue/white games Shavlik Randolph looked the star of his class which included JJ and Shelden.

In this post, you appear to be utilizing oversimplistic reasoning. While I agree that the Blue White Scrimmage and exhibition games are not the best indicators of future success, in Shav's case he was injured or sick for the majority of his career at Duke. The fact that he left early and was signed by an NBA team validates his skill level in basketball.

[baltimoron]

Well hopefully we will be on TV soon so all of us out of towners who can't attend games can see how all these things play out. Can't wait to watch Henderson with a year of experience under his belt- I think he will be the one filling a highlight reel and will compete with Singler for best player. But we can't leave Nelson out of that discussion- the tough senior leader. It's good to have Paulus playing at 100%, let's hope he stays that way. He'll have lots of targets with this more athletic team. Which is why I think Zoubek doesn't fit in well. I see Singler and Thomas getting most of the minutes up front. As for Scheyer- yes, a solid, smart all around player who definitely helps. But, with a much improved and healthy Henderson, I feel like his minutes go down. He won't be playing any point either with the arival of Smith. A defense with Henderson, Nelson, and Smith on the floor will be fun to watch. I like the guard situation for sure. Very deep.

[shadycharacter]

I haven't been able to find a box score on either Shaw or Barton, but from comments here apparently Zoub has played less than half of the time at the 5. So, who is playing it the rest of the time--or have we had basically two power forwards?

I've seen comments that King might have some center duty when Zoub isn't in, and even more that Thomas might share time there. But until McClure is back, this leaves no one designated to relieve Singler.

I know it's very early, but could some of you who saw one or both of the games talk some about who is so far doing what in the front court.

[Indoor66]

See the Shaw game thread

[delfrio]

The box scores are linked in the DBR roundup of each game.

[shadycharacter]

I haven't seen a box score on either Shaw or Barton, but from comments here apparently Zoub had played less than half of the time at the 5. So, who is playing it the rest of the time--or have we had basically two 4's?

I've seen suggestions that King might share some center duty, and even more that Thomas might well log considerable time there. But if they are focused on the 5, this seems to leave no one left to relieve Singer, unless we go to four guards.

So, though it's very early, would some of you who aw one or both of the games talk some about who is so far doing what in the front court.

[lavell12]

Lance is the starting big man. King has played the four mostly but played a few minutes at the 5.

[OZZIE4DUKE]

As far as I know, Cameron Indoor Stadium.