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JBDuke
03-05-2019, 08:10 PM
Put your post-game thoughts here.

scottdude8
03-05-2019, 08:11 PM
We didnít deserve to win that game. We did because we have superior talent. Next game. Period. End of sentence.

BLPOG
03-05-2019, 08:11 PM
I need some tranquilizers

Les Grossman
03-05-2019, 08:11 PM
that was awful

TKG
03-05-2019, 08:11 PM
We played like crap for the entire game and are lucky to get away with one.

slower
03-05-2019, 08:12 PM
In a season of battles, that was trench warfare with fixed bayonets. Ugly, ugly basketball. Neither team deserved to win.

Saturday may be brutal.

duke4ever19
03-05-2019, 08:12 PM
We didnít deserve to win that game. We did because we have superior talent. Next game. Period. End of sentence.

Stop it with the "deserve" stuff.

That horrific call against Barrett with a minute to go luckily didn't come back to bite us.

ChillinDuke
03-05-2019, 08:12 PM
Gonna be a rough thread...

- Chillin

jsx
03-05-2019, 08:12 PM
Last shot was eerily similar to Grayson's miss vs Kansas at the end of regulation

ndkjr70
03-05-2019, 08:12 PM
Stress-free games against Wake Forest are my favorite things.

fuse
03-05-2019, 08:13 PM
Guess I picked a good game to have to coach soccer instead of watch.
Iím sure reading a few pages of DBR will catch me up.

arnie
03-05-2019, 08:13 PM
We didnít deserve to win that game. We did because we have superior talent. Next game. Period. End of sentence.

Fee bad for Wake. We should not have won after making so many poor decisions. What was Jack White thinking?.

DarkstarWahoo
03-05-2019, 08:13 PM
What an ending! I feel like I can say that here now.

crdaul
03-05-2019, 08:13 PM
What about Bolden?

hsheffield
03-05-2019, 08:13 PM
How embarrassing.......

I’m not sure why, but I’m angry about this game.

KandG
03-05-2019, 08:13 PM
Feel bad for Wake. They deserved to win that game.

Not much more to say that's positive, other than we still have our starting point guard.

In all seriousness, sometimes even the best teams have a really bad one in them. I sure hope that was it.

WHOneedsSOX
03-05-2019, 08:13 PM
We didnít deserve to win that game. We did because we have superior talent. Next game. Period. End of sentence.

Duke won cause foul count was ridiculously in their favor second half.

Tripping William
03-05-2019, 08:14 PM
As Miami was to Carolina, so Wake is to Duke.

Or something. Man alive .....

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
03-05-2019, 08:14 PM
Huge brainfart on the inbound. Good D on the play. Incredibly lucky on the miss.

Hope reinforcements are coming soon.

WakeDevil
03-05-2019, 08:14 PM
I was watching a basketball game, and a football game broke out. That violation was something you see in rec ball. All White had to do was wait until his teammate came out of bounds.

BigZ
03-05-2019, 08:14 PM
Get Zion back our team is doomed

MChambers
03-05-2019, 08:14 PM
Last shot was eerily similar to Grayson's miss vs Kansas at the end of regulation

I said the same thing.

jipops
03-05-2019, 08:14 PM
Agree with others upthread. The least deserving team won. Both teams were terrible. It was just a bad brand of basketball in every way. K seems to have lost all ability to call plays outside of straight up iso. And the defense is just lost off the ball.

We wonít see a close one like this on Saturday.

arnie
03-05-2019, 08:15 PM
Stop it with the "deserve" stuff.

That horrific call against Barrett with a minute to go luckily didn't come back to bite us.

Yes, but Barrett ices the game if he makes any FTs. I think Wake should have fouled him intentionally near the end.

El_Diablo
03-05-2019, 08:15 PM
That last shot was after the buzzer and would not have counted.

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
03-05-2019, 08:15 PM
Danny Manning might have saved his job tonight. They played their rears off. We didn't match their intensity.

Survive and advance started tonight. Sheesh.

#1Duke
03-05-2019, 08:15 PM
Wow . Disappointing game.

UNC fans are probably licking their chops right now.

CDu
03-05-2019, 08:16 PM
Well, we obviously are going to have to play much better than that the rest of the way. Thankfully we won and kept alive our 1 seed hopes. But we need Zion back soon. We didnít look good at all tonight, and against a bad team.

Hopefully we got it out of our system. And hopefully Zion is back Saturday.

dyedwab
03-05-2019, 08:16 PM
That was terrible to watch. No energy. So many missed bunnies. Missed FT's. Sometimes, it look like it was RJ playing 1 on 5 - because he was the only one playing.

This hasn't been a great last few games.

arnie
03-05-2019, 08:16 PM
I was watching a basketball game, and a football game broke out. That violation was something you see in rec ball. All White had to do was wait until his teammate came out of bounds.

No, I played years of rec ball and donít recall anything that bad.

NYBri
03-05-2019, 08:17 PM
Late game turnover at the baseline ...

ndkjr70
03-05-2019, 08:17 PM
I stand by my statement that I made the second Zion went down: Duke is not a top-15 basketball team without Zion williamson.

I donít think thatís even arguable any more.

kako
03-05-2019, 08:17 PM
5 immediate thoughts:

1. Looks to me Jones bothered that last shot by Wake that rimmed off. Having him back means so much. White also helped.

2. I love RJ, but I'll say it again: hit your FTs, young man!

3. To me, clearly Duke didn't take this game seriously. Senior night and looking ahead to Carolina?

4. Is White now on a 0-fer trying to hit layups? And what about that brain freeze on that last turnover? Geez. Duke needs his steadiness back.

5. The game kind of reminded me at the end like the Vermont game a few years back when Parker was at Duke. We got lucky against an inferior opponent. Time to forget it, other than to remind the team that playing with energy means something.

9F

Dukehk
03-05-2019, 08:17 PM
Survive and advance.

Won't go into criticisms of the players not named RJ today.

However, what on earth was Jack thinking? I've never seen regression on such a dramatic scale..Lets hope he bounces back starting next game.

ndkjr70
03-05-2019, 08:18 PM
That was terrible to watch. No energy. So many missed bunnies. Missed FT's. Sometimes, it look like it was RJ playing 1 on 5 - because he was the only one playing.

This hasn't been a great last few games.

Ironically enough, ď1-of-5Ē is probably pretty close to RJís free throw percentage.

FerryFor50
03-05-2019, 08:18 PM
A winís a win.

Just glad that awful charge call against RJ, the weird turnover call against Javk (no replay, so who knows what happened there), and the lack of a travel call on Childress on his first step move to try to hit the three didnít cost Duke the game.

Did Duke play badly? Sure. But they played well enough to pull it out.

Missed FTs and more bad luck for Jack on offense kept the game way closer than it should have been. That and Chaundee Brown played out of his mind.

TruBlu
03-05-2019, 08:18 PM
The bad news: UGLY!

The good news: It wonít go on the books as a loss.

The better news: Tres doesnít appear to have any lingering effect from his knee bump.

The best news (hopefully): We might get Zion back. We need him.

OZZIE4DUKE
03-05-2019, 08:19 PM
Coach K said it best: we were very lucky to win. We have got to improve our foul shooting.

LGD GTHc! BTW, Iím not going to start the Status Check thread. Didnít work so well last month.

scottdude8
03-05-2019, 08:19 PM
Fee bad for Wake. We should not have won after making so many poor decisions. What was Jack White thinking?.

To be fair to Jack that was an odd call. Thatís the type of thing that happens all the time after a made basket and refs donít blink an eye... Jack clearlt wanted RJ inbounding the ball and didnít believe he had established possession of the ball out of bounds (or didnít think the ref had started his count). Was it the right call? If the ref had indeed started his count, technically. But if that same thing happens with 10 to go in the first half I doubt anyone notices.

As to the ďdeserveĒ comment... my point was simply that we won a game in which we played quite poorly, where we were obviously flat and missed Zion, made silly mistakes, and yet somehow found a way to win. We were also clearly looking ahead to UNC. I donít think itís worth overanalyzing a performance that was so clearly anomalous. Take the victory, get healthy, and GTHC.

DU82
03-05-2019, 08:19 PM
Stop it with the "deserve" stuff.

That horrific call against Barrett with a minute to go luckily didn't come back to bite us.

He pushed off with his arm. It wasnít visible from the angle of the replay on the scoreboard. Pretty automatic call. (Doubt TV had a better angle unless the camera below the basket had it.)

Clocktower
03-05-2019, 08:19 PM
I know its not the most important thing right now but how does that entire TV organization not notice that Bolden was out almost the entire second half? Look forward to hearing why.

DukeWarhead
03-05-2019, 08:19 PM
This hasn't been a great last few games.

The Miami game was not bad at all.

heyman25
03-05-2019, 08:20 PM
We truly had a historic game, the worst I have witnessed in my memory. Our fab 4 should be embarrassed by how awful they were. Glad Tre seems ok. The inconsistency from Saturday to tonight is scary bad. Jack White had an epic turnover on our last possession. After 2 great 3's made his game melted down. Hope this is last bad game in this team's chemistry. There seem to be no chemistry for most of the game.

WakeDevil
03-05-2019, 08:20 PM
No, I played years of rec ball and donít recall anything that bad.

I'm talking about youngsters. Player A is assigned to inbound the ball to Player B. Player B has the ball out of bounds and decides that is not his job.

TKG
03-05-2019, 08:20 PM
The headlines will read RJ scores 28 and breaks the Duke freshman scoring record. But he was 0-6 from 3; 6-14 from the line and had 7 TOs. He shot the ball 23 times. We need him to be much, much better.

FerryFor50
03-05-2019, 08:20 PM
He pushed off with his arm. It wasnít visible from the angle of the replay on the scoreboard. Pretty automatic call. (Doubt TV had a better angle unless the camera below the basket had it.)

No he didnít. It never extended. Was a complete flop by Brown.

bluedev_92
03-05-2019, 08:20 PM
We didnít play well for sure... but FYI, the ball was still in players hand @ 0.0 on the clock. I took a snapshot of it, but canít seem to attach it...

devildeac
03-05-2019, 08:21 PM
A winís a win.

Just glad that awful charge call against RJ, the weird turnover call against Javk (no replay, so who knows what happened there), and the lack of a travel call on Childress on his first step move to try to hit the three didnít cost Duke the game.

Did Duke play badly? Sure. But they played well enough to pull it out.

Missed FTs and more bad luck for Jack on offense kept the game way closer than it should have been. That and Chaundee Brown played out of his mind.

Jack stepped in-bounds before he passed the ball to the guy headed OOB to make the real in-bound play. YMCA elementary school mistake. :mad:

Barnstormer
03-05-2019, 08:21 PM
If they continue to play like they did tonight. Last 3 games of the season are coming up. Will lose by 40 points to North Carolina. Lose in the first round of the ACC tournament and then the first round of the NCAA. This team looks horrible. I don't know what has happened.

YmoBeThere
03-05-2019, 08:21 PM
I know its not the most important thing right now but how does that entire TV organization not notice that Bolden was out almost the entire second half? Look forward to hearing why.

I noticed it also but my complaints went no further than my TV screen and the chat room I was in.

DU82
03-05-2019, 08:21 PM
No he didn’t. It never extended. Was a complete flop by Brown.

Did TV have the angle on a replay? I’m going with what I saw live.

devildeac
03-05-2019, 08:22 PM
No he didnít. It never extended. Was a complete flop by Brown.

With his feet moving, too.

FerryFor50
03-05-2019, 08:22 PM
Did TV have the angle on a replay? Iím going with what I saw live.

To be fair, Brown sold it well.

rsvman
03-05-2019, 08:23 PM
Did TV have the angle on a replay? Iím going with what I saw live.

He pushes off with the left arm habitually, on almost every drive. It was hard to tell if he did it here, but if he did, it was minor. A lot of flop on the play, to be sure.

MarkD83
03-05-2019, 08:23 PM
So lots of other teams are playing better than duke right now. That includes at least 4 teams in the acc. Even with a number 2 seed this team may not make the elite 8 without Zion

FerryFor50
03-05-2019, 08:23 PM
I noticed it also but my complaints went no further than my TV screen and the chat room I was in.

Itís weird because he was pretty effective in the first half - 4 point, 5 boards, 2 blocks.

HereBeforeCoachK
03-05-2019, 08:23 PM
If they continue to play like they did tonight. Last 3 games of the season are coming up. Will lose by 40 points to North Carolina. Lose in the first round of the ACC tournament and then the first round of the NCAA. This team looks horrible. I don't know what has happened.

Right, because they played just like this last game.......oh, wait.....

FerryFor50
03-05-2019, 08:25 PM
He pushes off with the left arm habitually, on almost every drive. It was hard to tell if he did it here, but if he did, it was minor. A lot of flop on the play, to be sure.

So it was a lifetime achievement award.

TNTDevil
03-05-2019, 08:25 PM
Survive and advance...ammirite?

Dukehky
03-05-2019, 08:25 PM
People are the worst.

Wake went on their run when Bolden went down. He's much better than Javin and it's obvious. He helps the defense and the offense because he has gravity as a rim-runner, mostly because he can catch the ball. He makes a huge difference here. Wake's offensive rebounding is definitively lessened if he's out there.

Not a good game by any stretch, but it looked like we had lost Tre and the team got back in front and held the lead.

Pretty... not good to have your upper classmen captains be... well, not good, down the stretch. I don't know how many putbacks Jack missed.

rsvman
03-05-2019, 08:25 PM
So it was a lifetime achievement award.

Precisely.

El_Diablo
03-05-2019, 08:28 PM
To be fair to Jack that was an odd call. Thatís the type of thing that happens all the time after a made basket and refs donít blink an eye... Jack clearlt wanted RJ inbounding the ball and didnít believe he had established possession of the ball out of bounds (or didnít think the ref had started his count). Was it the right call? If the ref had indeed started his count, technically. But if that same thing happens with 10 to go in the first half I doubt anyone notices.

He "didn't believe he had established possession"? What are you talking about? He caught the ball after it went through the net, walked a few steps with it firmly secured in both hands against his chest, then turned around just stepped back inbounds. There was no question it was the right call.

BandAlum83
03-05-2019, 08:28 PM
Iím fairly certain the last shot that rolled around didnít get off in time. Despite that, we got lucky and made too many mental mistakes tonight.

jipops
03-05-2019, 08:29 PM
Yes, but Barrett ices the game if he makes any FTs. I think Wake should have fouled him intentionally near the end.

If Duke wasnít a one man team, RJ has enough left to make those free throws.

HereBeforeCoachK
03-05-2019, 08:29 PM
There seem to be no chemistry for most of the game.

...the really strong acid was removed from our chemistry set......

J4Kop99
03-05-2019, 08:29 PM
I don't think that shot at the end would have counted. Looked like the ball was still touching his hand.

Quite the game either way... hopefully this was a one-time thing.

scottdude8
03-05-2019, 08:30 PM
He "didn't believe he had established possession"? What are you talking about? He caught the ball after it went through the net, walked a few steps with it firmly secured in both hands against his chest, then turned around just stepped back inbounds. There was no question it was the right call.

I mustíve missed that since they didnít show a replay. If thatís the case then you are 100% correct.

HereBeforeCoachK
03-05-2019, 08:30 PM
If Duke wasnít a one man team, RJ has enough left to make those free throws.

sorry, no sale.

CameronCrazy'11
03-05-2019, 08:31 PM
On the last replay you can see the ball still in his hand with the scoreboard lit up and clock at 0.

Coballs
03-05-2019, 08:31 PM
Any idea what was going on with Bolden?

archand1
03-05-2019, 08:32 PM
Honest question. If you were a GM, would you take Cam with a top 15 pick? This team does not have reliable offensive weapons besides RJ and Zion. The thing that bothers me most is the lack of emotion and energy from this group.

dukelifer
03-05-2019, 08:32 PM
Well, we obviously are going to have to play much better than that the rest of the way. Thankfully we won and kept alive our 1 seed hopes. But we need Zion back soon. We didnít look good at all tonight, and against a bad team.

Hopefully we got it out of our system. And hopefully Zion is back Saturday.

This is the type of game I feared. Close win- guys got hurt and a lot of doubt going into UNC> But they won- and in the grand scheme of things - the way Duke won will not be remembered. That said- if Bolden is hurt- that does not bode well. We shall see. The only take away is that RJ is an incredible scorer. He has the Freshman record and will get a lot more points moving forward. Kid is impressive. If he could only hit FTs ;)

Dukehky
03-05-2019, 08:33 PM
Any idea what was going on with Bolden?

He went back to the locker room hurt early in the second half, didn't come back in the game.

Like I said earlier, I think the whole game is different if he plays. They went on that 10-0 spurt right when he was out and a lot of that was on Jav.

DukieInBrasil
03-05-2019, 08:33 PM
...the really strong acid was removed from our chemistry set...

you mean, it's all about that base? ...sorry.
Not as sorry as the way the team played tonight, but still, pretty sorry.

Acymetric
03-05-2019, 08:34 PM
Honest question. If you were a GM, would you take Cam with a top 15 pick? This team does not have reliable offensive weapons besides RJ and Zion. The thing that bothers me most is the lack of emotion and energy from this group.

No, but I argued months ago that Cam isn't a lottery pick so it isn't any kind of recency bias. That said I do think he'll have a successful NBA career, he's just not a lottery guy.

scottdude8
03-05-2019, 08:34 PM
Honest question. If you were a GM, would you take Cam with a top 15 pick? This team does not have reliable offensive weapons besides RJ and Zion. The thing that bothers me most is the lack of emotion and energy from this group.

Yes. As has been discussed over and over on this forum. The NBA is made for a 6-8 guy with length to defend and a stellar (and improving) shot. The fact that he isnít necessarily an alpha dog, primary option type guy doesnít diminish from that at all. As K likes to say, 95% of the NBA is role players. Cam has the potential to be stellar in one of the most important roles in modern basketball.

CDu
03-05-2019, 08:36 PM
Yes. As has been discussed over and over on this forum. The NBA is made for a 6-8 guy with length to defend and a stellar (and improving) shot. The fact that he isn’t necessarily an alpha dog, primary option type guy doesn’t diminish from that at all. As K likes to say, 95% of the NBA is role players. Cam has the potential to be stellar in one of the most important roles in modern basketball.

To add to that, it is a pretty weak draft class. Although “stellar” is not the word I would use to describe Barrett’s shooting. I am not sure “improving” is accurate either.

dukelifer
03-05-2019, 08:37 PM
No, but I argued months ago that Cam isn't a lottery pick so it isn't any kind of recency bias. That said I do think he'll have a successful NBA career, he's just not a lottery guy.

Too much promise in that kid. He will get picked high. But no idea what kid of player he will be. He could be great or flame out.

lotusland
03-05-2019, 08:37 PM
He pushed off with his arm. It wasnít visible from the angle of the replay on the scoreboard. Pretty automatic call. (Doubt TV had a better angle unless the camera below the basket had it.)

No replay was clear. Barrett did not clear with his arm on that drive.

arnie
03-05-2019, 08:37 PM
He went back to the locker room hurt early in the second half, didn't come back in the game.

Like I said earlier, I think the whole game is different if he plays. They went on that 10-0 spurt right when he was out and a lot of that was on Jav.

Really hate to hear that news. Marques has been playing his best ball at Duke and frankly, Javin just doesn’t have ACC level bball skills. Hopefully, nothing major wrong, we can’t afford to have MB and Zion out for long.

FerryFor50
03-05-2019, 08:37 PM
He went back to the locker room hurt early in the second half, didn't come back in the game.

Like I said earlier, I think the whole game is different if he plays. They went on that 10-0 spurt right when he was out and a lot of that was on Jav.

Bolden looked to be running well in this, but Tre did not look as spry:

https://twitter.com/adamrowetdd/status/1103120317445074945?s=21

downeastdad
03-05-2019, 08:38 PM
He went back to the locker room hurt early in the second half, didn't come back in the game.

Like I said earlier, I think the whole game is different if he plays. They went on that 10-0 spurt right when he was out and a lot of that was on Jav.

He was back on the bench in the middle of the second half, didn't look to be in serious distress.

TKG
03-05-2019, 08:38 PM
Honest question. If you were a GM, would you take Cam with a top 15 pick?

I would not , but that is just one of the many reasons that NBA teams are not calling to hire me as a GM.

wavedukefan70s
03-05-2019, 08:39 PM
No replay was clear. Barrett did not clear with his arm on that drive.

Nope shoulder made contact.was a crud call.

KandG
03-05-2019, 08:40 PM
I’m fairly certain the last shot that rolled around didn’t get off in time. Despite that, we got lucky and made too many mental mistakes tonight.

I looked at the replay multiple times and froze the clock at the moment it hit 0.0, and the ball was indeed still in the Wake shooter's fingertips. Verrrry close though, and looked good in real time. I wouldn't have wanted to wait for an extended replay review to decide that one.

archand1
03-05-2019, 08:40 PM
Yes. As has been discussed over and over on this forum. The NBA is made for a 6-8 guy with length to defend and a stellar (and improving) shot. The fact that he isnít necessarily an alpha dog, primary option type guy doesnít diminish from that at all. As K likes to say, 95% of the NBA is role players. Cam has the potential to be stellar in one of the most important roles in modern basketball.

I've not seen stellar or improving anywhere in the equation this season.

FerryFor50
03-05-2019, 08:40 PM
I looked at the replay multiple times and froze the clock at the moment it hit 0.0, and the ball was indeed still in his hands. Verrrry close though, and looked good in real time. I wouldn't have wanted to wait for an extended replay review to decide that one.

Win would have felt less good if they had to sit through a replay.

campered
03-05-2019, 08:42 PM
Any idea what was going on with Bolden?

Wanna know too! Has been asked twice during this thread, and now three times. I tuned in late and was wondering where Bolden was. The announcers mentioned Zion and Trey when he was out during the game, but never mentioned Bolden. Very strange game. Never seen anything like this. What a joke!

MarkD83
03-05-2019, 08:42 PM
Ok someone using my DBR name has been far too negative in this thread.

Duke pulled out a win...played lousy doing it but still has lots of goals they can reach in the next 10 games.

Zion will be storming back on the court soon and Duke can
1) still get a #1 seed in the ACC when Louisville shocks UVA and Duke handles the cheats in chapel hell.
2) Win the Acc tournament
3) Gets a #1 NCAA seed
4) Gets to another Final 4
5) Then anything can happen....

jv001
03-05-2019, 08:42 PM
No replay was clear. Barrett did not clear with his arm on that drive.

The replay from beneath the basket showed that RJ did not push off. Bad call. Even the announcers said it was after looking at it from that angle. RJ needs to shoot 1000 FTs before the Cheat game. GoDuke!

Billy Dat
03-05-2019, 08:43 PM
Jack White's spaced out moment reminds me of another game I can't quite place. During the Paulus/McRoberts sophomore year, didn't we have a lead and literally throw the ball right to someone at the 3 point line to allow them to tie the game or something? Maybe someone will remember.

This was definitely our worst showing of the year, but Senior Night/Last Time in Cameron for one-and-dones can be weird. Aside from that, we definitely didn't seem to take them seriously. We let them hang around, they start hitting all kinds of shots, game pressure builds, etc. Thank god we erased that 10 point lead in short order..then we started missing lots of chippies. Who knows.

I agree with whomever said "Survive and Advance" upthread. What else is there to say. We have posters on DBR who only show up after games like this and say we stink but never show up otherwise, posters who tend to be optimistic and like to get into arguments with the aforementioned doomsayers, etc. Have fun, everyone, playing your prescribed roles.

dukelifer
03-05-2019, 08:44 PM
He was back on the bench in the middle of the second half, didn't look to be in serious distress.

Interesting- I was in serious distress

jv001
03-05-2019, 08:44 PM
Wanna know too! Has been asked twice during this thread, and now three times. I tuned in late and was wondering where Bolden was. The announcers mentioned Zion and Trey when he was out during the game, but never mentioned Bolden. Very strange game. Never seen anything like this. What a joke!

He's day to day. :cool: Just kidding. GoDuke!

scottdude8
03-05-2019, 08:44 PM
To add to that, it is a pretty weak draft class. Although ďstellarĒ is not the word I would use to describe Barrettís shooting. I am not sure ďimprovingĒ is accurate either.

Talking about Cam...

HereBeforeCoachK
03-05-2019, 08:45 PM
. But no idea what kid of player he will be. He could be great or flame out.

..that's not my idea of a definition of a lottery pick......

dukebluesincebirth
03-05-2019, 08:46 PM
That was gut wrenching to watch. Where were their heads tonight?? Not encouraging at all.

duke4ever19
03-05-2019, 08:47 PM
He pushed off with his arm. It wasnít visible from the angle of the replay on the scoreboard. Pretty automatic call. (Doubt TV had a better angle unless the camera below the basket had it.)

Agree to disagree. I saw replays like everyone else who watched on ESPN. I'm in agreement with the announcers that it was a bad call, and certainly not obvious enough to call with a minute left in the game. That is the kind of call where a ref inserts himself too much into deciding the game.

dukelifer
03-05-2019, 08:48 PM
..that's not my idea of a definition of a lottery pick...

Kwame, Darko, Anthony Bennet, Markelle Fultz, Greg Oden all say hello

scottdude8
03-05-2019, 08:49 PM
..that's not my idea of a definition of a lottery pick...

I think you need to look more closely at the history of the NBA draft then. Lottery picks are not guaranteed stars. They arenít guaranteed starters. In the current NBA where youíre drafted on potential there have been dozens of consensus lottery picks who have flamed out.

And, as others have mentioned, if you donít think Cam should go in the lottery, then who is going ahead of him? Can you name 14 better NBA prospects?

Weíre all going off the deep end here and drawing huge conclusions from a game that was an anomaly in so many ways. Letís take the win, get healthy, and move forward. GTHC.

slower
03-05-2019, 08:49 PM
We have posters on DBR who only show up after games like this and say we stink but never show up otherwise, posters who tend to be optimistic and like to get into arguments with the aforementioned doomsayers, etc. Have fun, everyone, playing your prescribed roles.

Not to mention those "objective, voice of reason" types.

Kidding, bro - kidding. :p

ncexnyc
03-05-2019, 08:49 PM
There's nothing better than getting a nice Christmas present all wrapped up with a big shiny bow on top in the month of March.

Can we please run some plays for Alex. If we're going to cry about RJ not getting any help, the least we can do is set something up for the one player who appears to be capable of scoring the basketball.

I wouldn't get to bent out of shape over that offensive foul call on RJ. I think he got away with a few that could easily have been called against him tonight.

Zion's a great player and we clearly miss him, but geez you'd think that after several games without Zion, the staff would have developed a coherent plan to utilize the 3 stud freshman that are still suited up.

I'm really anxious to hear what's up with Bolden. If he's out with an injury then we are in deep kimchi.

I'd like to think we were looking ahead to Saturday, but tonight's effort doesn't inspire me to be hopeful for a solid outing come Saturday.

bluenorth
03-05-2019, 08:50 PM
Sometimes it's better to be lucky than good. Glad it turned out that way tonight.

Reddish showed more aggression in going to the basket, which was positive. If he has a short range pull-up jumper, that will help. As far as his draft status, he'll go early due to his size and his upside. Freshmen have been know to be inconsistent!

Now, here's hoping that the Duke medical staff can work their magic and have Zion ready for the weekend.

CDu
03-05-2019, 08:53 PM
Kwame, Darko, Anthony Bennet, Markelle Fultz, Greg Oden all say hello

Oden and Fultz were spectacular in college. They shouldnít be on this list.

gofurman
03-05-2019, 08:54 PM
He's day to day. :cool: Just kidding. GoDuke!

so now we have to pull for ZION, Bolden and Tre... cmon we need all of you guys !!!

FerryFor50
03-05-2019, 08:54 PM
Oden and Fultz were spectacular in college. They shouldnít be on this list.

Bennett was really good, too. Darko and Kwame never played in college.

CDu
03-05-2019, 08:55 PM
Talking about Cam...

I meant Reddish. His shot is neither stellar nor improving. True of Barrett too, but I meant Reddish.

J4Kop99
03-05-2019, 08:55 PM
Cam still screams Paul George. I think he will be a great pro.

TruBlu
03-05-2019, 08:56 PM
Jack White's spaced out moment reminds me of another game I can't quite place. During the Paulus/McRoberts sophomore year, didn't we have a lead and literally throw the ball right to someone at the 3 point line to allow them to tie the game or something? Maybe someone will remember.


I donít remember the incident you mention, but I do recall that in one Duke game, Kenny Denard had a flashback to playground ball, where if youíre throwing the ball inbound you first throw it to an opposing player to let them insure that their defense is set. In Kennyís case, unfortunately, the opposing player realized that it wasnít playground ball and it resulted in an easy basket.

ChillinDuke
03-05-2019, 08:57 PM
Danny Manning might have saved his job tonight. They played their rears off. We didn't match their intensity.

Survive and advance started tonight. Sheesh.

No chance he saved it.

- Chillin

CDu
03-05-2019, 08:57 PM
Cam still screams Paul George. I think he will be a great pro.

That is the best-case scenario, yes. Still a long way too go though. The physical tools are there. But he is really sloppy offensively.

FerryFor50
03-05-2019, 08:58 PM
No chance he saved it.

- Chillin

They mentioned Wake is getting a new AD. Once they do, I fully expect Manning to get the axe.

Billy Dat
03-05-2019, 08:58 PM
Not to mention those "objective, voice of reason" types.

Kidding, bro - kidding. :p

I actually see myself as an optimist bordering on magical thinking! That being said, my gut instinct about this coming Saturday is negative...but the rivalry exists upon unlikely outcomes.

-jk
03-05-2019, 09:00 PM
Danny Manning might have saved his job tonight. They played their rears off. We didn't match their intensity.

Survive and advance started tonight. Sheesh.

Sucks to be Duke: everyone brings their A+ game...

Well, maybe it doesn't suck. Survive and advance, baby!

-jk

Kjeffrey
03-05-2019, 09:01 PM
They mentioned Wake is getting a new AD. Once they do, I fully expect Manning to get the axe.

Yup. It's my understanding he has a buyout clause. The rumor mill has already started about possible replacements including Wojo, who I'm guessing would not entertain it but who knows?

El_Diablo
03-05-2019, 09:02 PM
No chance he saved it.

- Chillin

He's got six years left on his contract after this season though. Will Wake be able and willing to cough up enough to buy him out?

HereBeforeCoachK
03-05-2019, 09:02 PM
Sucks to be Duke: everyone brings their A+ game...

-jk

Yep, the cheats nor UVa get anything like the super bowl performances thrown at them Duke does.....not even close.

slower
03-05-2019, 09:02 PM
That is the best-case scenario, yes. Still a long way too go though. The physical tools are there. But he is really sloppy offensively.

Yeah, his handle ranges from wildly erratic to horrible. He's definitely a plus on D. Maybe he'll correct his deficiencies in the NBA - maybe not. There's no way he should be a Top 5 lottery pick, despite the season-long media talking points and his hype coming in as a lights-out shooter. Zion, RJ and Cam definitely occupy 3 very distinct tiers of talent, in that order.

KandG
03-05-2019, 09:03 PM
Yes. As has been discussed over and over on this forum. The NBA is made for a 6-8 guy with length to defend and a stellar (and improving) shot. The fact that he isnít necessarily an alpha dog, primary option type guy doesnít diminish from that at all.

Yup, I think we can separate our concerns about Cam's up and down play from his potential as a lottery pick. His physical tools and upside are simply too good for NBA teams to ignore, and they'll have time and resources to help him develop and mature. The Paul George comparisons are probably over the top, but people forget how raw PG was when he was drafted.

The one thing that alarmed me today was how the team seemed to struggle with energy in parallel with Cam's struggles, rather than pushing forward even as he muddled along. When Cam finally made a 3, it felt like an anvil had been lifted off the team's back. That's where Zion is really missed, his scoring and defensive contributions aside...he doesn't allow the team to get down too much.

FerryFor50
03-05-2019, 09:03 PM
That is the best-case scenario, yes. Still a long way too go though. The physical tools are there. But he is really sloppy offensively.

Both averaged 14.3 ppg as freshmen, but George was a better outside shooter in college.

FerryFor50
03-05-2019, 09:04 PM
Yep, the cheats nor UVa get anything like the super bowl performances thrown at them Duke does....not even close.

Cheats occasionally get it, but most of the time, teams crap the bed.

rsvman
03-05-2019, 09:05 PM
Cam is not a stellar shooter. His shot is actually worsening as the season wears on.
When he drives he is often out of control, leading to charging fouls. Our, he dribbles the ball off his foot.
He is what he is at this point of the season and I don't think much is going to change.

Do you remember when we beat Kentucky 118-84,or something like that? Good times.
Everybody thought we were invincible. What happened to that team?

If I were coach K, sometime between now and the Cheats game I would make the team sit down together and watch that game film. Tell them that they can be that again.

Acymetric
03-05-2019, 09:06 PM
Yup. It's my understanding he has a buyout clause. The rumor mill has already started about possible replacements including Wojo, who I'm guessing would not entertain it but who knows?

Interesting. ACC is definitely a step up from the (new) Big East, but I don't think Wake is a step in from Marquette from an individual school level. Hard to imagine him leaving a good thing at Marquette for a massive rebuild in Winston Salem.

brevity
03-05-2019, 09:08 PM
What about Bolden?


Any idea what was going on with Bolden?


Wanna know too! Has been asked twice during this thread, and now three times.

Blue Devil Nation @BlueDevilNation (link (https://twitter.com/BlueDevilNation/status/1103125015992680448))

Bolden got hit on his hip per K and he is uncertain how it is but should be okay.

6:47 PM - 5 Mar 2019


I need some tranquilizers

You could rewatch the first half if you need to get sleepy.

heyman25
03-05-2019, 09:08 PM
Honest question. If you were a GM, would you take Cam with a top 15 pick? This team does not have reliable offensive weapons besides RJ and Zion. The thing that bothers me most is the lack of emotion and energy from this group.
I said essentially the same thing and was hammered on this board for it.Observations people just a fan observation.

CDu
03-05-2019, 09:09 PM
Cam is not a stellar shooter. His shot is actually worsening as the season wears on.
When he drives he is often out of control, leading to charging fouls. Our, he dribbles the ball off his foot.
He is what he is at this point of the season and I don't think much is going to change.

Do you remember when we beat Kentucky 118-84,or something like that? Good times.
Everybody thought we were invincible. What happened to that team?

If I were coach K, sometime between now and the Cheats game I would make the team sit down together and watch that game film. Tell them that they can be that again.

What happened to that team? Well, we are missing the best player from that team, and the rest of the guys are somewhat limited without his gravity drawing attention away.

The Kentucky game was probably our ceiling. We shot well and dominated every phase of the game. If Zion returns, we are still capable of that. It just requires Barrett and Reddish to have good nights at the same time.

JetpackJesus
03-05-2019, 09:10 PM
I looked at the replay multiple times and froze the clock at the moment it hit 0.0, and the ball was indeed still in the Wake shooter's fingertips. Verrrry close though, and looked good in real time. I wouldn't have wanted to wait for an extended replay review to decide that one.
Sorry I couldn't get a higher res screen, but I think this still establishes the shot wouldn't have counted if it did go in (click to embiggen):

9130

There's actually a frame after this one where ball is still on his fingertips, but that's less clear due to the low resolution of the video.

TruBlu
03-05-2019, 09:11 PM
Any idea what was going on with Bolden?


He went back to the locker room hurt early in the second half, didn't come back in the game.



Did he go back to the locker room hurt, or was he sick? Watching TV, I did not see him getting injured on a play, nor did I see him hobbling. Apparently the TV crew was oblivious to whatever was going on with Bolden.

I see Brevity covered this while I was fumble fingers typing my post

archand1
03-05-2019, 09:11 PM
Cam is not a stellar shooter. His shot is actually worsening as the season wears on.
When he drives he is often out of control, leading to charging fouls. Our, he dribbles the ball off his foot.
He is what he is at this point of the season and I don't think much is going to change.

Do you remember when we beat Kentucky 118-84,or something like that? Good times.
Everybody thought we were invincible. What happened to that team?

If I were coach K, sometime between now and the Cheats game I would make the team sit down together and watch that game film. Tell them that they can be that again.

I agree- I love this team, I just think the freshmen lead groups make for some wildly drastic swings during a season. It's been that way for several seasons, you really dont know who will show up. Is Zionless Duke the team that beat Cuse and blew out a team they should have, or are they this team?

DukieInBrasil
03-05-2019, 09:11 PM
Can we please run some plays for Alex. If we're going to cry about RJ not getting any help, the least we can do is set something up for the one player who appears to be capable of scoring the basketball.
....
I'd like to think we were looking ahead to Saturday, but tonight's effort doesn't inspire me to be hopeful for a solid outing come Saturday.
K has shown absolute disdain for the idea of calling plays for this team. Maybe it pays off in the end, in that they develop the confidence to rise to the moment. Tonight was not a demonstration of that.


That is the best-case scenario, yes. Still a long way too go though. The physical tools are there. But he is really sloppy offensively.
yerp. he's got a really bad handle, charges at every opportunity and makes bad passes. If the team would run plays (ha! i know, great joke) he could make a killing cutting to the basket w/o the ball. Alternatively, if he could recognize that floaters and pullup jumpers are a good thing, he could also rise to the occasion. As is, he makes a stunning amount of really bad plays.

VA_BDevil
03-05-2019, 09:13 PM
In defense of Jack - Yes, that was a boneheaded move on the out-of-bounds play, but he recovered nicely to defend that game-ending shot, and some of his missed "gimme" put-backs were highly contested. Jack was also our leading rebounder with 10 boards in 21 minutes.

Moving forward, AOC seems to have found his shot and would be nice to see him get more touches. Based on RJ's 7 turnovers, would also be nice to see the ball in Tre's hands more.

CDu
03-05-2019, 09:13 PM
I agree- I love this team, I just think the freshmen lead groups make for some wildly drastic swings during a season. It's been that way for several seasons, you really dont know who will show up. Is Zionless Duke the team that beat Cuse and blew out a team they should have, or are they this team?

To be fair, this yearís team when healthy has been consistently elite. It is just that we have been snake bitten with fluke injuries. That isnít a one-and-done problem.

Nhoman4
03-05-2019, 09:13 PM
Duke wins.
9F.

kmspeaks
03-05-2019, 09:15 PM
To be fair to Jack that was an odd call. Thatís the type of thing that happens all the time after a made basket and refs donít blink an eye... Jack clearlt wanted RJ inbounding the ball and didnít believe he had established possession of the ball out of bounds (or didnít think the ref had started his count). Was it the right call? If the ref had indeed started his count, technically. But if that same thing happens with 10 to go in the first half I doubt anyone notices.

I typically hate the "let the players decide the game" officiating that happens at the end of close games but I really think this is a case where it would have been appropriate to "swallow the whistle." Letting clear fouls go is bad because it allows one player or team to have an advantage. What advantage did Duke gain from Jack White taking a step to yell and point at Barrett? The Wake players were all standing around waiting for him to actually prepare to inbound the ball. Was it technically against the rules? Sure, but I can't remember the last time I've seen something like that called and it would have been a huge shame to see the outcome of a game change because of it.

ns7
03-05-2019, 09:17 PM
93 o rating. Worst game outside of the first UNC matchup. Prior the games were much better on offense so I'll chalk this up as an anomaly.

Defense was actually okay. TO% could have been higher but that's been mostly lacking since Zion got hurt.

The team had a similar performance against GT at home at full strength. This game likely goes the same with Zion.

Next play.

scottdude8
03-05-2019, 09:18 PM
To be fair, this yearís team when healthy has been consistently elite. It is just that we have been snake bitten with fluke injuries. That isnít a one-and-done problem.

Seconded. Iím not sure weíve had a two week stretch where the entire team has been healthy since the non-conference slate. That makes EVERYTHING harder: learning/finding your role, building team chemistry, finding the energy on an off night, etc. The fact that this freshman led team has dealt with all the adversity itís been dealt and still only has four losses going into the season finale needs to be viewed as an accomplishment not a negative.

WiJoe
03-05-2019, 09:19 PM
The Kentucky game was probably our ceiling.

definitely, not probably.

nov. 6.

four months to the day from wednesday

campered
03-05-2019, 09:19 PM
Blue Devil Nation @BlueDevilNation (link (https://twitter.com/BlueDevilNation/status/1103125015992680448))

Bolden got hit on his hip per K and he is uncertain how it is but should be okay.

6:47 PM - 5 Mar 2019



You could rewatch the first half if you need to get sleepy.

Thanks!

ns7
03-05-2019, 09:20 PM
Also, Tre Jones has a nice game going before he got hurt.

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
03-05-2019, 09:21 PM
..that's not my idea of a definition of a lottery pick...

Half the lottery picks are made on potential.

Rich
03-05-2019, 09:22 PM
Seconded. I’m not sure we’ve had a two week stretch where the entire team has been healthy since the non-conference slate. That makes EVERYTHING harder: learning/finding your role, building team chemistry, finding the energy on an off night, etc. The fact that this freshman led team has dealt with all the adversity it’s been dealt and still only has four losses going into the season finale needs to be viewed as an accomplishment not a negative.

If (and it's a big IF) we are healthy at some point again this season, the question is whether we can pull it all back together or if we'll be disjointed and erratic.

devildeac
03-05-2019, 09:23 PM
Jack White's spaced out moment reminds me of another game I can't quite place. During the Paulus/McRoberts sophomore year, didn't we have a lead and literally throw the ball right to someone at the 3 point line to allow them to tie the game or something? Maybe someone will remember.

This was definitely our worst showing of the year, but Senior Night/Last Time in Cameron for one-and-dones can be weird. Aside from that, we definitely didn't seem to take them seriously. We let them hang around, they start hitting all kinds of shots, game pressure builds, etc. Thank god we erased that 10 point lead in short order..then we started missing lots of chippies. Who knows.

I agree with whomever said "Survive and Advance" upthread. What else is there to say. We have posters on DBR who only show up after games like this and say we stink but never show up otherwise, posters who tend to be optimistic and like to get into arguments with the aforementioned doomsayers, etc. Have fun, everyone, playing your prescribed roles.

At home against Clemson. Then we ran a give-and-go with McRoberts to Scheyer to McClure at the buzzer for the W. (I think that sequence was right-my youtube video is a bit fuzzy.)

jipops
03-05-2019, 09:24 PM
At home against Clemson. Then we ran a give-and-go with McRoberts to Scheyer to McClure at the buzzer for the W. (I think that sequence was right-my youtube video is a bit fuzzy.)

And there was some clock mismanagement that helped us out a bit too I believe.

scottdude8
03-05-2019, 09:24 PM
Half the lottery picks are made on potential.

Exactly. Nasir Little and Romeo Langford will for sure be lottery picks and theyíve both had inferior seasons compared to Cam. In an ideal world Cam refines his game for more than one year at Duke and enters the league ready to start and contribute immediately. But thatís just not the way the basketball world works right now.

wsb3
03-05-2019, 09:24 PM
I need some tranquilizers

I don't usually drink this late but after that performance.

9131

MarkD83
03-05-2019, 09:25 PM
Billydat,

The game you are remebering was against Clemson. McRoberts threw the ball to where Paulus was but Paulus cut away from the spot and a Clemson player caught the ball and made a 3 ptr. It was a great assist.

However, McClure then saved the day.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5BfScg9cNCs

jv001
03-05-2019, 09:25 PM
To be fair, this yearís team when healthy has been consistently elite. It is just that we have been snake bitten with fluke injuries. That isnít a one-and-done problem.

You are correct. It's a health problem. In your Phase threads, health is usually #1 on the list and in many seasons, it has been the #1 problem: Kyrie, Kelly, Bagley, Jefferson and Giles to name a few. Even back when Bob Verga came up with a bug overnight. We're just snake bitten like you said. We need Zion back in the worse way as he makes Cam and Tre so much better. GoDuke!

scottdude8
03-05-2019, 09:26 PM
If (and it's a big IF) we are healthy at some point again this season, the question is whether we can pull it all back together or if we'll be disjointed and erratic.

Agreed. Luckily it isnít quite a Kyrie situation, but weíll all feel a lot better if Zion can play a few games in the ACC Tourney before the NCAAs.

weezie
03-05-2019, 09:26 PM
I'm kind of staggered by that win. Just so tense and mystifying. Then the freshman issue reared up. Can't understand Jack's bonehead inbounds mistake. Couldn't believe the physical pounding we took yet hung on.
Oh my. I'm having a hard time getting a grip.

KandG
03-05-2019, 09:27 PM
Also, Tre Jones has a nice game going before he got hurt.

Thought Tre grew nicely into the game offensively after an up and down start. His outside shot will never inspire much confidence, but I liked the way he looked for seams in the defense and attacked aggressively.

I assume someone will share numbers on lineups eventually, but I wasn't real crazy about the amount of Goldwire-Jones minutes together. I understand some of it was necessitated by Cam's foul trouble and whatever issues Bolden had, but it's too easy to collapse on us with two offensively challenged guards, and it compromises our switchability a bit on D.

MarkD83
03-05-2019, 09:27 PM
You are correct. It's a health problem. In your Phase threads, health is usually #1 on the list and in many seasons, it has been the #1 problem: Kyrie, Kelly, Bagley, Jefferson and Giles to name a few. Even back when Bob Verga came up with a bug overnight. We're just snake bitten like you said. We need Zion back in the worse way as he makes Cam and Tre so much better. GoDuke!

When was the last year Duke had no health problems...2010??

jacone21
03-05-2019, 09:28 PM
And there was some clock mismanagement that helped us out a bit too I believe.

No mismanagement there. It was perfectly managed. :D

Saratoga2
03-05-2019, 09:28 PM
Before I read more than the first two pages I will put done my own thoughts so as not to get them confused with what others have to say.

1. I wondered what was going on with Bolden and thought we could have used his size, greater offensive capbility and shot blocking. The coaches must have seen something there that I was missing. Was it Wake was quicker or he wasn't energetic enoough? I couldn't see what they saw.

2. It appeared that someone had put a bee in Cam's bonnet about being more aggressive. Cam however lacks judgment at times and ran us into three charges in short order. He couldn't hit any shots early on and was a net negative for the team. His defense was missing for a long stretch due to his early fouls and that hurt us.

3. RJ is a great scorer with all sorts of moves and he finishes so well. He seemed to be taking one on three moves while our other players weren't participating offensively. RJ's attempt at passing out were careless and resulted in a lot of turnovers. Somehow, if this team is moving ahead, we need to involve more players in the offense.

4. Tre played very good defense again and did go to the basket a few times for points and I believe hit a 3. His contribution tends to lift this team and reduces the scoring pressure on RJ. Having Zion would mean teams would have to cover two great finishers and we miss him in many ways.

5. Jack White played with a lot of energy and heart and he is smart in his positioning. He is at a little disadvantage trying to score around the rim but is very valuable to the team

6. Alex is an efficient scorer who goes several minutes at a time without touching the ball on offense. He was open numerous times at the end when RJ took on 60% of the Wake team. If 3 are guarding RJ, someone else must be open. Part of the issue is Alex doesn't demand the ball. I think he went 2 for 4 on 3's and hit a put back at the basket. The kid looks like he could go for double figures in most games and need to be encouraged.

6. Jordan played a determined defense and is a solid replacement who can give Tre rest.

7. Javin played hard but his game is primarily defense.

We as a team seems to be disinterested for a good part of the game, had a spurt and were lucky to hold on as our F shooting at the end and loss of concentration could easily have cost us.

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
03-05-2019, 09:28 PM
In defense of Jack - Yes, that was a boneheaded move on the out-of-bounds play, but he recovered nicely to defend that game-ending shot, and some of his missed "gimme" put-backs were highly contested.

This is important. He had his hand all over that last shot. Didn't sulk. Very important.

CDu
03-05-2019, 09:29 PM
When was the last year Duke had no health problems...2010??

We were pretty healthy in 2014. And relatively so in 2015 (just the Okafor rolled ankle).

DU82
03-05-2019, 09:29 PM
Agree to disagree. I saw replays like everyone else who watched on ESPN. I'm in agreement with the announcers that it was a bad call, and certainly not obvious enough to call with a minute left in the game. That is the kind of call where a ref inserts himself too much into deciding the game.

No disagreement if the under the basket view showed no foul. I saw, from up top of section 3, what looked to be a push off, and of course Brown sold it and the refs bought his act. Thanks to you and others that answered my question about a better replay angle than what they showed on the scoreboard.

ChillinDuke
03-05-2019, 09:30 PM
He's got six years left on his contract after this season though. Will Wake be able and willing to cough up enough to buy him out?

Yes.

Guys, Wake's entire athletic identity revolves around a basketball team that has been in the basement of the ACC over the vast majority of Manning's tenure. They are waiting for a (very old) AD to retire after this academic year runs out in May. The incoming AD is an alum and well aware of what Wake's most notable calling card is. I can't imagine a scenario where Manning survives, Noble loss at Duke or not.

I'm surprised Danny Manning didn't work out at Wake. I thought he was a great hire. But they're not going to wait any longer. Especially after this year.

- Chillin

ncexnyc
03-05-2019, 09:30 PM
I'm still waiting for someone to be that guy.:cool:

Acymetric
03-05-2019, 09:31 PM
We were pretty healthy in 2014. And relatively so in 2015 (just the Okafor rolled ankle).

Talk about a wide range of outcomes. I tend to forget those seasons happened back to back.

Honestly, weren't we relatively health every season between the two championships except for 2010-2011 (Kyrie)?

dukee94
03-05-2019, 09:32 PM
Jack White's spaced out moment reminds me of another game I can't quite place. During the Paulus/McRoberts sophomore year, didn't we have a lead and literally throw the ball right to someone at the 3 point line to allow them to tie the game or something? Maybe someone will remember.

This was definitely our worst showing of the year, but Senior Night/Last Time in Cameron for one-and-dones can be weird. Aside from that, we definitely didn't seem to take them seriously. We let them hang around, they start hitting all kinds of shots, game pressure builds, etc. Thank god we erased that 10 point lead in short order..then we started missing lots of chippies. Who knows.

I agree with whomever said "Survive and Advance" upthread. What else is there to say. We have posters on DBR who only show up after games like this and say we stink but never show up otherwise, posters who tend to be optimistic and like to get into arguments with the aforementioned doomsayers, etc. Have fun, everyone, playing your prescribed roles.

I think it was Duke/Clemson on 25 Jan, 2007. Paulus inbounded the ball in the vicinity of McRoberts, but . . . . I think McRoberts then threw a full court pass to Dave McClure for a layup. My wife was watching live TV on a JetBlue flight and might have offended the other passengers with her comments.

http://www.goduke.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=4200&ATCLID=753349

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
03-05-2019, 09:32 PM
This team seems like the last several Duke teams. A first weekend loss would be disappointing but not shocking. A Final Four appearance would be validating, but not a given.

A good showing over the next 10 days could change those expectations. A few losses could lessen that shock.

All possibilities are on the table. I don't expect 3 straight losses, but I would be pleasantly surprised with 10 straight wins.

Natty_B
03-05-2019, 09:34 PM
Talk about a wide range of outcomes. I tend to forget those seasons happened back to back.

Duke didnít lose any of the four games Bagley missed last year. I would hardly call that an injury plagued year. Injuries happen. Ask Michigan St.

UrinalCake
03-05-2019, 09:35 PM
Iím not going to make any grand proclamations on our season and what we can or canít be based on this game. It was one game. We messed around in the first half and before we knew it we were down 10. Bad games happen. Zion was out, Reddish was a non factor after picking up three charging fouls in the first half, Bolden sat the second half for who knows why, and Tre left for several minutes. Thatís a lot of lineup shuffling. Still no excuse for such poor play, but we fought through it.

I didnít understand why Goldwire played so much. His greatest value is when he and Tre are defending full court, but we didnít actually apply any pressure. Other times we played with two bigs - Javin and Bolden. It felt like even K was using the game to tinker and assuming it would be an easy win. For much of the second half we played five guards/wings. Would have preferred to get Alex some of those minutes, but Iím sure K had his reasons.

Barrett definitely didnít push off. He does push off with his off arm a lot, and he gets away with it a lot. But on this play he didnít.

Rich
03-05-2019, 09:36 PM
We were pretty healthy in 2014. And relatively so in 2015 (just the Okafor rolled ankle).

Not to nitpick, but Winslow had bruised ribs for a portion of Jan-Feb. I don't think it was well publicized and he played through it, but had some down games that many of us attributed to the freshman wall, but he was suffering some.

ns7
03-05-2019, 09:36 PM
Thought Tre grew nicely into the game offensively after an up and down start. His outside shot will never inspire much confidence, but I liked the way he looked for seams in the defense and attacked aggressively.


He had 8 rebounds, 3 steals, 3 assists, and only 1 TO. He shot well too: 4-8 from the field and 4-4 on FTs. Agree that he did a nice job attacking the basket. Hopefully he keeps it up moving forward.

jv001
03-05-2019, 09:37 PM
No disagreement if the under the basket view showed no foul. I saw, from up top of section 3, what looked to be a push off, and of course Brown sold it and the refs bought his act. Thanks to you and others that answered my question about a better replay angle than what they showed on the scoreboard.

The announcers first looked at the replay from a different angle not the beneath the basket one and said it was a foul on RJ. Then one of the announcers said he couldn't see the play because he was blocked out. The TV crew then showed the replay from beneath the basket and the announcers said no push off and it was a bad call. But for what it's worth, there were some questionable calls both ways. GoDuke!

rsvman
03-05-2019, 09:38 PM
I agree that the Goldwire plus Jones line up was a bit perplexing.
I would have loved to have seen Joey getting some of Goldwire's minutes, especially given the fact that nobody on the team not named Alex couldn't hit the ocean with the ball off a Disney cruise liner.

UrinalCake
03-05-2019, 09:38 PM
Duke didnít lose any of the four games Bagley missed last year. I would hardly call that an injury plagued year. Injuries happen. Ask Michigan St.

Carter had Achilles tendinitis for the end of the season, who knows how much it affected him in that Kansas game. Also Duval got hurt during that CHeat game in the ACCT but played through it. And Grayson had nagging injuries all season, he wasnít practicing for long stretches so he could rest.

Acymetric
03-05-2019, 09:38 PM
Duke didnít lose any of the four games Bagley missed last year. I would hardly call that an injury plagued year. Injuries happen. Ask Michigan St.

This is true (go back and look at the edit I made, apparently after you quoted me). Guys getting banged up or missing a few games does not make for an injury riddled season (which is why I think only the Kyrie season qualifies). I think you could make a case for the Tatum/Giles team as well, even though the injuries mostly happened before the season and it was mostly just an issue of not being all the way back in game shape for much of the season.

TruBlu
03-05-2019, 09:38 PM
I'm still waiting for someone to be that guy.:cool:

Well, Iím not going to mention Joey Baker. So keep waiting.

CDu
03-05-2019, 09:38 PM
Duke didnít lose any of the four games Bagley missed last year. I would hardly call that an injury plagued year. Injuries happen. Ask Michigan St.

Yeah 2018 was fairly injury-free.

The injury-riddled yearís were 2011, 2012, 2013, 2016, 2017, and 2019.

Dukehky
03-05-2019, 09:39 PM
Once again, for some great perspective, K's post-game presser should let everyone rest a little easier.

We didn't have a good game tonight, but we won. Same thing happened against VT except we lost. If the Ville can avenge the second worst loss of the last calendar year or so (even worse than the loss to Duke), then we still have a chance at the ACC regular season title.

Also, the tweets stating Zion being out for UNC don't really convey the attitude I read from K in the postgame. I'm not necessarily expecting him to be back, but there's a non-zero chance he plays. It seems like it's about his being ready to play, rather than his being healthy enough to play, if that makes sense. So, maybe.

ns7
03-05-2019, 09:40 PM
Duke didnít lose any of the four games Bagley missed last year. I would hardly call that an injury plagued year. Injuries happen. Ask Michigan St.

UVA missed Hunter last year in the NCAAs. VT is without their best player too.

We'll be okay if Zion comes back next week.

KandG
03-05-2019, 09:40 PM
Iím not going to make any grand proclamations on our season and what we can or canít be based on this game. It was one game. We messed around in the first half and before we knew it we were down 10. Bad games happen. Zion was out, Reddish was a non factor after picking up three charging fouls in the first half, Bolden sat the second half for who knows why, and Tre left for several minutes. Thatís a lot of lineup shuffling. Still no excuse for such poor play, but we fought through it.


I hope we're at least more competitive against UNC this Saturday without Zion. Actually thought we were good vs Syracuse, V Tech and Miami and tonight was the first real egg we laid. We really won't know until the ACC tournament what this team's arc will be.

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/26146854/coach-k-zion-ready-acc-tourney

Natty_B
03-05-2019, 09:40 PM
K says Zion back almost certainly no later than next week.

https://mobile.twitter.com/stevewisemanNC/status/1103127854332694528

Acymetric
03-05-2019, 09:41 PM
Yeah 2018 was fairly injury-free.

The injury-riddled yearís were 2011, 2012, 2013, 2016, 2017, and 2019.

I'm not sure all those years qualify as "injury riddled," unless injury riddled means any player was injured for any amount of time during the season.

I certainly don't think you can call 2019 injury riddled (yet).

uh_no
03-05-2019, 09:41 PM
I'm not necessarily expecting him to be back, but there's a non-zero chance he plays.

i think that's a fair take.

Rich
03-05-2019, 09:42 PM
This team seems like the last several Duke teams. A first weekend loss would be disappointing but not shocking. A Final Four appearance would be validating, but not a given.

A good showing over the next 10 days could change those expectations. A few losses could lessen that shock.

All possibilities are on the table. I don't expect 3 straight losses, but I would be pleasantly surprised with 10 straight wins.

Agreed regarding the team on the court tonight, but I think with a healthy Zion we're a different team. Not invincible, but in addition to his talent on both sides of the court, he brings a lot of intangibles, including emotion and energy. I remember when Zion got injured, RJ was asked about it and his response was that Zion brought energy and he didn't know where they'd get it from with him out. The big question now is if we'll see THAT team again.

weezie
03-05-2019, 09:43 PM
...I didn’t understand why Goldwire played so much. His greatest value is when he and Tre are defending full court, but we didn’t actually apply any pressure...

K was throwing the kitchen sink at Childress. He was lights out and Tre was wearing out.
Wake played a hell of a game. Great shooting and guts. Plenty of flops, sure, but Duke had a hard time figuring it out. No one stops RJ going to his left, not even three deacs, but he needs help.

robed deity
03-05-2019, 09:43 PM
We were pretty healthy in 2014. And relatively so in 2015 (just the Okafor rolled ankle).

Didn't Winslow hurt his shoulder? Can't remember if he missed time though.

jimmymax
03-05-2019, 09:43 PM
Great win on Freshman Night. Hope their speeches were as good. Kept waiting for the Baker explosion but it didn't happen.

jipops
03-05-2019, 09:43 PM
The proclamation by tv talking heads thar Duke could beat the Cleveland Cavaliers has become more asinine as the season has progressed.

jv001
03-05-2019, 09:43 PM
K says Zion back almost certainly no later than next week.

https://mobile.twitter.com/stevewisemanNC/status/1103127854332694528

Thanks for the link, but I have to say, I'll believe it when I see it. I'm not taking anything for granted after tonight's game. GoDuke!

CDu
03-05-2019, 09:43 PM
This is true (go back and look at the edit I made, apparently after you quoted me). Guys getting banged up or missing a few games does not make for an injury riddled season (which is why I think only the Kyrie season qualifies). I think you could make a case for the Tatum/Giles team as well, even though the injuries mostly happened before the season and it was mostly just an issue of not being all the way back in game shape for much of the season.

I would strongly suggest that 2013 (Kelly missed a bunch of games) and 2016 (Jefferson missed most of the year) would qualify. This season we have had two separate injuries and an illness costs us 7 player games so far and counting. And they were to some pretty critical pieces.

Acymetric
03-05-2019, 09:44 PM
The proclamation by tv talking heads thar Duke could beat the Cleveland Cavaliers has become more asinine as the season has progressed.

Yeah, should have used the Lakers instead.

Acymetric
03-05-2019, 09:48 PM
I would strongly suggest that 2013 (Kelly missed a bunch of games) and 2016 (Jefferson missed most of the year) would qualify. This season we have had two separate injuries and an illness costs us 7 player games so far and counting. And they were to some pretty critical pieces.

I guess it isn't really fair or useful for me to debate this unless I decide on a clear cutoff for "injury riddled" other than "know it when I see it", but players miss games. I am confident I wouldn't call this season injury riddled. Off the cuff: Good call on 2016 with Jefferson, that counts. Kelly didn't miss THAT many games and while he was a good player he wasn't a centerpiece (except for his first name back..."a game for the ages") so that one is a no go for me. Which year did Seth have all the shin issue? That probably counts. I'll grant Allen's senior year as well.

archand1
03-05-2019, 09:50 PM
When was the last year Duke had no health problems...2010??

I'm too lazy to research...maybe its bias but man I cant think of other elite teams who had so many key pieces injured in the last 10 years as Duke has.

CDu
03-05-2019, 09:50 PM
I guess it isn't really fair or useful for me to debate this unless I decide on a clear cutoff for "injury riddled" other than "know it when I see it", but players miss games. I am confident I wouldn't call this season injury riddled. Off the cuff: Good call on 2016 with Jefferson, that counts. Kelly didn't miss THAT many games and while he was a good player he wasn't a centerpiece (except for his first name back..."a game for the ages") so that one is a no go for me. Which year did Seth have all the shin issue? That probably counts. I'll grant Allen's senior year as well.

Curryís shin problems were also 2013. And Kelly missed about 1/3 of that season.

Acymetric
03-05-2019, 09:55 PM
Curryís shin problems were also 2013. And Kelly missed about 1/3 of that season.

Ok, I was a little too quick on the draw there without bothering to remember/check some of the details.

I'll grant 2011, 2013, and 2016 (I had already agreed on 2011 obviously). Hard disagree about 2012 and 2019 (knock on wood). 2017 is a maybe, and I would be tempted to add 2018 as borderline as well even though it's not on your list.

Natty_B
03-05-2019, 09:58 PM
I'm too lazy to research...maybe its bias but man I cant think of other elite teams who had so many key pieces injured in the last 10 years as Duke has.

Sure but part of that is because we think about Duke more often. Missouri had the Porter brothers for a handful of games. Bol Bol and Darius Garland missed most of the year. Reid Travis is hurt. Matthews at Michigan. Michigan St is a mess of injuries. Tillie for Gonzaga. If Hunter doesnít get hurt UVA doesnít suffer the biggest upset in tournament history. It happens a lot. Losing Zion for 2.5 weeks and Tre for a few games isnít that much worse than the above.

mkirsh
03-05-2019, 09:59 PM
Weird game. Duke was definitely flat, while Wake was ready to play. Dukeís defense was decent, but Wake just hit a ton of tough, well guarded shots. Offense struggled, but if RJ makes 70% of his free throws, Jack makes 50% of his lay ups, Cam doesnít brick a dunk, and Jack just inbounds the ball on the last play, this is a much more comfortable win. The offense definitely missed Bolden in the second half as he is much better at running PNR with RJ vs Jav where RJ couldnít get him the ball.

Next play. Most important thing now is to rest up, recharge, and get healthy for the stretch run.

Acymetric
03-05-2019, 10:00 PM
Sure but part of that is because we think about Duke more often. Missouri had the Porter brothers for a handful of games. Bol Bol and Darius Garland missed most of the year. Reid Travis is hurt. Matthews at Michigan. Michigan St is a mess of injuries. Tillie for Gonzaga. If Hunter doesnít get hurt UVA doesnít suffer the biggest upset in tournament history. It happens a lot. Losing Zion for 2.5 weeks and Tre for a few games isnít that much worse than the above.

This is what I'm trying to get at. There is a difference between "guys get banged up over the course of the season and sometimes miss games" and "injury riddled".

baldtimer
03-05-2019, 10:03 PM
As was debated earlier this week....we continue to get worse as the season progresses....barely beating ( and not deserving ) a terrible Wake Forest team while Carolina wins again by a huge amount and continue to get stronger....I have no words...and honestly have no real explanation for why we go backwards as the season progresses....I assume it has something to do with Freshmen hitting a wall, but who knows...unfortunately not sure our coaching staff knows either....but we should have beaten Wake by 20 given the talent disparity...and on our home court for heavens sake!

uh_no
03-05-2019, 10:06 PM
As was debated earlier this week...we continue to get worse as the season progresses...barely beating ( and not deserving ) a terrible Wake Forest team while Carolina wins again by a huge amount and continue to get stronger...I have no words...and honestly have no real explanation for why we go backwards as the season progresses...I assume it has something to do with Freshmen hitting a wall, but who knows...unfortunately not sure our coaching staff knows either...but we should have beaten Wake by 20 given the talent disparity...and on our home court for heavens sake!

maybe you missed the game on Saturday. how did that fit into your doom and gloom "regression"

Dukehky
03-05-2019, 10:06 PM
As was debated earlier this week...we continue to get worse as the season progresses...barely beating ( and not deserving ) a terrible Wake Forest team while Carolina wins again by a huge amount and continue to get stronger...I have no words...and honestly have no real explanation for why we go backwards as the season progresses...I assume it has something to do with Freshmen hitting a wall, but who knows...unfortunately not sure our coaching staff knows either...but we should have beaten Wake by 20 given the talent disparity...and on our home court for heavens sake!


There is always the option to not watch, or just become a UNC fan since your posts seem to indicate how much you like the "Carolina Way"

Sluggo
03-05-2019, 10:07 PM
Tre looked very sore at the end of the game, I hope he is OK.

I wonder if the players knew/know what Zion’s status is better than we do. If not, the uncertainty could make it difficult for them to mentally prepare for games.

Despite Jack’s miscues tonight, I still have confidence with him in the game. I do wonder why RJ would have been the better person to inbound the ball, perhaps so RJ didn’t end up getting fouled intentionally and put on the line.

Hoping it’s all down hill from here!

hsheffield
03-05-2019, 10:08 PM
Wondering why we donít get the ball to AOC more often. Am I missing something?

Furniture
03-05-2019, 10:11 PM
In the middle of all this depression what about something to put a smile back on....

https://mobile.twitter.com/DukeMBB/status/1103144640038010880

Salut the Vrank...

Plus Justice is in the house..

Steven43
03-05-2019, 10:18 PM
Yep, Cam has a really bad handle, charges at every opportunity and makes bad passes. If the team would run plays (ha! i know, great joke) he could make a killing cutting to the basket w/o the ball. Alternatively, if he could recognize that floaters and pullup jumpers are a good thing, he could also rise to the occasion. As is, he makes a stunning amount of really bad plays.
You know, I said this very thing about Cam several times in the first couple of months of the season, but it didnít go over particularly well. Since then I have backed off and tried to give Cam the benefit of the doubt. But my gosh...

baldtimer
03-05-2019, 10:18 PM
seems like some of you are ok with getting beat by UNC....don't count me in that bunch....hate losing to them and hate seeing them play better than us right now....hopefully at full strength we will show better, but Vegas had us with a 99.6% chance of beating Wake tonight....just don't see how we ever come down to the wire against them....and don't see how this can be spun as a good game by us. Always thankful for our success but make no apologies for seeking greatness...did not see that tonight and have not seen it for the past few weeks other than maybe the Miami game.

UrinalCake
03-05-2019, 10:19 PM
A couple of random additional thoughts:

- I applaud Barrett for trying to feed the post, but man heís got to get better at it. Four or five times he just lobbed the ball into the paint aimlessly. Zion is the only human being on the planet who would even have a prayer at receiving those entry passes, and he was sitting on the bench in a polo shirt. We need better recognition than throwing 50/50 balls into the paint. Barrett finally did hit Javin on a nice roll to the basket in the final minute or two.

- Vrank was setting some killer screens in the first couple minutes. At least three times he sprung a shooter for a wide open look.

Nugget
03-05-2019, 10:20 PM
Billydat,

The game you are remebering was against Clemson. McRoberts threw the ball to where Paulus was but Paulus cut away from the spot and a Clemson player caught the ball and made a 3 ptr. It was a great assist.

However, McClure then saved the day.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5BfScg9cNCs

It's hilarious watching that clip how unhappy Len Elmore was that McClure's shot beat the clock.

UrinalCake
03-05-2019, 10:22 PM
we continue to get worse as the season progresses...barely beating ( and not deserving ) a terrible Wake Forest team while Carolina wins again by a huge amount and continue to get stronger

Three days ago we beat Miami by 30 while the CHeats beat Clemson by 2 (with the help of a fortuitous no-call on the final possession).

Steven43
03-05-2019, 10:25 PM
seems like some of you are ok with getting beat by UNC...don't count me in that bunch...hate losing to them and hate seeing them play better than us right now.
Count me solidly in your camp. There is nothing I love more than beating UNC, save getting to a Final Four (and even that is debatable) and winning the National Championship. Other than that beating UNC is it for me. Everything else is anticlimactic by comparison.

TNTDevil
03-05-2019, 10:26 PM
I typically hate the "let the players decide the game" officiating that happens at the end of close games but I really think this is a case where it would have been appropriate to "swallow the whistle." Letting clear fouls go is bad because it allows one player or team to have an advantage. What advantage did Duke gain from Jack White taking a step to yell and point at Barrett? The Wake players were all standing around waiting for him to actually prepare to inbound the ball. Was it technically against the rules? Sure, but I can't remember the last time I've seen something like that called and it would have been a huge shame to see the outcome of a game change because of it.
Though not totally germane to your post, what about the foul that nearly took out Tre? I apologize but can't remember who it was that fouled him but, it was completely and utterly obvious he wasn't making a play on the ball, his leg was so extended, another millisecond and Tre's knee goes in the kid's jimmy. Then Tre gets fouled again as he's going for a rebound only to have the Wake player slide under him, eight feet from the basket, with his back turned to Tre and his butt sticking out. No attempt whatsoever to make a play on the ball.

I mean, wanker-word, if you can "go to the monitor" too look at somebody getting popped in the chops by an elbow or shoulder, you should be able to do the same on plays like these.

That wraps up this week's edition of Old Man Yells at Clouds. Episode eleventy-bajillion.

kako
03-05-2019, 10:31 PM
This is not a dig at Vrank. But I'm not sure how I feel about starting him tonight. The Carolina Way is always to start the seniors. Many other schools do that as well. However, I always felt Duke just played its regular rotation, treating the game like any other game. Wrt senior night, the key to seeing a bench senior get it was to blow out the other team, thus giving the regular rotation incentive. I actually like Vrank, since his attitude has always seemed good. And I'm glad he got a block in the box score of his final game at Cameron. But I would just rather see the regular starters play well from the opening tip, and then have seen Vrank (or Besser, for that matter) get in the game later. Tonight that did not happen, and I wonder if starting Vrank had anything to do with the poor play by treating this game differently. I'm sure some may say it did not. I still wonder. And next year, unless he becomes part of the rotation, I hope Robinson sits until he gets in later as a human victory cigar over Carolina.

That all being said, I trust in K overall. He's the boss, and I'm just in the peanut gallery. And a win's a win.

9F

Utley
03-05-2019, 10:34 PM
We didnít play well for sure... but FYI, the ball was still in players hand @ 0.0 on the clock. I took a snapshot of it, but canít seem to attach it...

Twitter has shots of it - you are right

kako
03-05-2019, 10:36 PM
Count me solidly in your camp. There is nothing I love more than beating UNC, save getting to a Final Four (and even that is debatable) and winning the National Championship. Other than that beating UNC is it for me. Everything else is anticlimactic by comparison.

+1

To be clear, I'll always take a Natty. It's a hair over beating Carolina... ok, maybe two hairs. But not a lock or toupee! Just a couple of hairs (ok, a few hairs, but not a strand).

9F

TNTDevil
03-05-2019, 10:36 PM
Seconded. Iím not sure weíve had a two week stretch where the entire team has been healthy since the non-conference slate. That makes EVERYTHING harder: learning/finding your role, building team chemistry, finding the energy on an off night, etc. The fact that this freshman led team has dealt with all the adversity itís been dealt and still only has four losses going into the season finale needs to be viewed as an accomplishment not a negative.Also seems important to remind some folks that these kids are fresh out of HS. Hell, RJ should be a Senior this year.

These kids have never played this many games, at this high a level, with all the added distraction in their lives. There's a learning curve. There's an endurance curve and, there's the off-court experience curve. They're learning all these things whilst also writing term papers and solving equations as part of their "day job".

If the NCAA is your bag, then making the tourney and getting hot is all that matters (2015). I personally prefer the ACC title. Why? Because I'm an old, wanker-word, man. I remember when you had to win the ACCT just to make it to the dance. Plus, I've lived in NC most of my life, and that ACCT Championship used to ultimate goal for any of the Big 4.

Utley
03-05-2019, 10:38 PM
Honest question. If you were a GM, would you take Cam with a top 15 pick? This team does not have reliable offensive weapons besides RJ and Zion. The thing that bothers me most is the lack of emotion and energy from this group.

Not after tonight - I want to love his game but something is not right

uh_no
03-05-2019, 10:49 PM
+1

To be clear, I'll always take a Natty. It's a hair over beating Carolina... ok, maybe two hairs. But not a lock or toupee! Just a couple of hairs (ok, a few hairs, but not a strand).

9F

losing to carolina lasts until the next UNC game. winning a natty lasts forever.

rsvman
03-05-2019, 10:50 PM
losing to carolina lasts until the next UNC game. winning a natty lasts forever.

Unless you are Louisville.

MrPoon
03-05-2019, 10:53 PM
This game was a classic trap game going into it. Freshmen led team after a big win a few days ago + playing at home against a lesser team + UNC game coming x last home game for serveral players = Trap. Add to it Camís fouls, Tre getting added to the rugby team, Bolden hurt and Jackís ...er...erratic night, it makes for a difficult night.

There were stretches where it was RJ, White, Javin, Tre and Goldwire on the floor (or something close to that). I have no idea what that offensive game plan was in the huddle except a big dry erase marker with RJ covering the entire clipboard. This is part of the issue tonight (and the last few games). Dukeís offense is very limited if they arenít going to run plays (clearly not at this point) and Zion is out, Tre isnít hitting (or even taking) shots, and Cam is sitting. Who makes the plays?

It actually is what worries more about Tre than his shooting, it is that I donít see him setting up players like Cam or AOC or others to get easy shots. He manages the floor, but not leads it or sets it up. Probably too broad of a statement but Iíd love to see more here because I think part of the offensive issue is that shooters donít know when they are going to get the ball in the set. Tonight it was especially true because it was 9 times out of ten RJ keeping it. But the 10th surprised the player when the pass did come.

Itís easy to get in the ďthey just hit shotsĒ but Brown kept taking and making really long twoís. The commentator on TV kept saying he loved that shot... NO that is a terrible shot. Yes he made several tonight but it is the worst shot possible... even if you make some. Tonight Brown hit serveral. What I did respect was his effort and rebounding more than his ability to make bad shots. Go to the shot chart on ESPN and see what I mean, Wake made many bad shots... its partly why Manning is in so much trouble.

Lastly, RJ does push off sometimes and get away with it but one min to go is a terrible time for a make up call. I also went back and frame-by-framed the end and the ball is in his hand with the red light on, Iím of course partial but it actually seemed clear.

uh_no
03-05-2019, 10:55 PM
Unless you are Louisville.

I suppose I meant for teams like duke (or UNC, I suppose....though for a very different reason)

bigperm13
03-05-2019, 11:00 PM
This postgame thread delivered as usual the small part I read as Iím assuming the other 10 pages are the same as the one I read. I can guarantee it is actually.

Acymetric
03-05-2019, 11:01 PM
If there's one thing I'm less interested in hearing about than injuries after a close game against a terrible opponent, it's "trap game". Wake is not good, we played really poorly at home against a bad team, and that's the end of the story. Hopefully we get back to playing like ourselves... we're capable of beating unc without Zion (we'd be favorites on the road with him) assuming we get back to playing like a good team. Even K was at a loss in the post game. No need to make excuses, we (narrowly) got a win we may not have deserved and hopefully we don't have another performance like that this season.

uh_no
03-05-2019, 11:02 PM
This postgame thread delivered as usual the small part I read as Iím assuming the other 10 pages are the same as the one I read. I can guarantee it is actually.

glad we could meet your expecations! :D

Acymetric
03-05-2019, 11:04 PM
It's hilarious watching that clip how unhappy Len Elmore was that McClure's shot beat the clock.

What a great moment for McClure...a true glue guy in every sense of the word. Almost felt more rewarding than Dockery against VT (except I was AT the game where Dockery hit that shot so hard to beat when it comes to regular season heroics from guys who otherwise lack significant accolades).

kAzE
03-05-2019, 11:05 PM
OOF. That was painful to watch. What an atrocity of a game. That was the worst we looked on offense maybe all year. SO many unforced turnovers and bad ball movement . . . Jack's turnover on the final possession . . .

Jack played really well defensively in this game, but it's a little alarming that he is playing center in crunchtime for this team right now. He's been fantastic on D, but yikes, we needed a little better rim protection there. They had a wide open layup to win the game. We probably deserved to lose that game.

We need Zion back BADLY. I fear we'll get annihilated by the Cheats if we're still without the big guy this weekend. It's pretty clear to me that we're not a top 10 team without Zion. Cam is too inconsistent. We CAN be a top 10 team, but only when Cam is as good as he was against Florida State or Louisville. When he's the Cam from tonight, we're very beatable.

Either way, I know one thing for sure: Cam needs to be HUGE on offense if we are to have any chance in Chapel Hill.

UrinalCake
03-05-2019, 11:05 PM
losing to carolina lasts until the next UNC game. winning a natty lasts forever.

100% agree. Losing to UNC stinks as a fan. If you live in the triangle like me, it REALLY stinks. But it is short lived. In the past two seasons the winner of the final regular season game went on to lose in the ACCT matchup. They had less than a week to celebrate.

Losing this Saturday would stink, but winning the ACCT would more than make up for it. And winning a title would mean we would basically never think about Saturdayís loss again.

Steven43
03-05-2019, 11:06 PM
There were stretches where it was RJ, White, Javin, Tre and Goldwire on the floor (or something close to that). I have no idea what that offensive game plan was in the huddle except a big dry erase marker with RJ covering the entire clipboard.

Hilarious comment. I re-read your post a couple of times while picturing Coach Kís clipboard with a giant ďRĒ and ďJĒ written on it. Cracked me up.

Acymetric
03-05-2019, 11:09 PM
losing to carolina lasts until the next UNC game. winning a natty lasts forever.

Yeah Natty over unc win hands down. I might rather beat UNC than make the Final Four though (if I know that we're losing in the final four). It's close.

Steven43
03-05-2019, 11:11 PM
Yeah Natty over unc win hands down. I might rather beat UNC than make the Final Four though (if I know that we're losing in the final four). It's close.

Yes and yes. Beating UNC is an extremely powerful drug.

camion
03-05-2019, 11:13 PM
Okay, this was one of our five stinkers this season. Just as we are not as good as our win at Virginia looked, we are not as bad as we looked in this game.

Others may dissect the game, but I donít plan to revisit it. Iím just glad it will show up in the win column. The video of this one goes to /dev/null.

killerleft
03-05-2019, 11:18 PM
I stand by my statement that I made the second Zion went down: Duke is not a top-15 basketball team without Zion williamson.

I don’t think that’s even arguable any more.

Yes, it is.

- John Cleese

Kfanarmy
03-05-2019, 11:20 PM
Seconded. Iím not sure weíve had a two week stretch where the entire team has been healthy since the non-conference slate. That makes EVERYTHING harder: learning/finding your role, building team chemistry, finding the energy on an off night, etc. The fact that this freshman led team has dealt with all the adversity itís been dealt and still only has four losses going into the season finale needs to be viewed as an accomplishment not a negative.

I just don't buy this. This isn't an 86 game season, yet they have 4 possible lottery / 1st round draft picks on the court. Every team goes through adversity, most without anywhere near the talent. The team Duke played tonight played harder for the entire first half.

uh_no
03-05-2019, 11:22 PM
I stand by my statement that I made the second Zion went down: Duke is not a top-15 basketball team without Zion williamson.

I donít think thatís even arguable any more.

you can't ignore the data points that don't suit your thesis...like the wins over syracuse and miami, and then overvalue the importance the ones that do, like tonight and v UNC. I ran the numbers after the VT game, and we were right on the cusp of top 15. I suspect after the over-performance against miami, and under-performance tonight, we are still right on the cusp.

So it's pretty much the definition of arguable.

UrinalCake
03-05-2019, 11:29 PM
I just don't buy this. This isn't an 86 game season, yet they have 4 possible lottery / 1st round draft picks on the court. Every team goes through adversity, most without anywhere near the talent. The team Duke played tonight played harder for the entire first half.

Weíre still starting four freshmen and a bunch of upperclassmen with basically no experience prior to this year. That Kentucky game threw everyoneís expectations out of whack. We knew there would be ups and downs this season.

killerleft
03-05-2019, 11:30 PM
To be fair to Jack that was an odd call. Thatís the type of thing that happens all the time after a made basket and refs donít blink an eye... Jack clearlt wanted RJ inbounding the ball and didnít believe he had established possession of the ball out of bounds (or didnít think the ref had started his count). Was it the right call? If the ref had indeed started his count, technically. But if that same thing happens with 10 to go in the first half I doubt anyone notices.

As to the ďdeserveĒ comment... my point was simply that we won a game in which we played quite poorly, where we were obviously flat and missed Zion, made silly mistakes, and yet somehow found a way to win. We were also clearly looking ahead to UNC. I donít think itís worth overanalyzing a performance that was so clearly anomalous. Take the victory, get healthy, and GTHC.

Somebody probably beat me to it, but that was the ONLY call that could be made, no matter when, no matter where. Refs always call it unless they just look away for a beat and miss it. Jack let the whole team down and got away with it.

Kfanarmy
03-05-2019, 11:43 PM
Weíre still starting four freshmen and a bunch of upperclassmen with basically no experience prior to this year. That Kentucky game threw everyoneís expectations out of whack. We knew there would be ups and downs this season.

Lack of effort should not be one of the acceptable "ups and downs."

uh_no
03-06-2019, 12:02 AM
Somebody probably beat me to it, but that was the ONLY call that could be made, no matter when, no matter where. Refs always call it unless they just look away for a beat and miss it. Jack let the whole team down and got away with it.

Believe it or not, the rulebook is actually extremely imprecise when it comes to throw-ins after made baskets; saying the following:


The throw-in shall start and the throw-in team shall have team control
when the ball is at the disposal of a player entitled to the throw-in


. It is a throw-in violation when a thrower-in: Touches the playing court before the throw-in is released or touches the
ball in the playing court before it has touched another player, or

A literal reading of these two rules says that if a player catches the ball after an opponent makes a basket while standing in bounds, it is an immediate violation as he has not released the ball and is touching the playing court.

Obviously that is not the case, though, and in typical interpretation a player is allowed to exit the playing court. But given THAT is acceptable given the imprecisely written rules, why couldn't a player catch the ball in bounds, step out, step in, step out, and then pass the ball. The rules as written are unenforceable, and thus we can argue all sorts of other similar violations ought not be enforced either.

In fact, all the rule book says on the matter is


. A throw-in is the method of putting the ball in play from out of bounds

One can INTERPRET this to mean the the throw in can only start when the ball is out of bounds, but I only note that it doesn't actually say that, and only says that at some point the ball must go from out of bounds to in bounds in the manner as described by the rule.


What's my point? The rules SHOULD be slightly disambiguated, but the standard interpretation makes a lot of sense and jack was a bonehead there.

Kedsy
03-06-2019, 12:20 AM
ADVANCED STATS

Possessions: 75.0 (pretty fast against a middle-of-the-pack tempo team)

OFFENSE

oRtg: 0.95 (our adjusted oRtg was 0.94, a clunker after three straight 120+ adjusted performance without Zion)
eFG%: 47.4% (weak)
3pt%: 31.8% (pretty close to average for this year's team)
2pt%: 47.2% (not good)
%threes: 37.9% (a bit high for this year's team)
FT rate: 44.8% (strong)
OR%: 25.0% (lousy)
TO%: 20.0% (yuck; fifth straight TO% over 18%, and sixth out of eight)
a/to: 0.67:1
%assisted: 41.7%
fast break pts: 10 (14.1% of our points)


DEFENSE

dRtg: 0.93 (adjusted that's 0.93, better than it looked)
eFG%: 44.3% (not bad)
3pt%: 30.4% (almost exactly Wake's average)
2pt%: 43.8% (good enough)
%threes: 32.4%
FT rate: 16.9% (very good)
DR%: 75.0% (much better than it seemed; our 3rd straight 75%+ DR performance; and if you go down to 70%, it's 6 of 7, 8 of 10, 11 of 15, 15 of 21; we've been a decent defensive rebounding team for most of the ACC season)
TO%: 12.0% (third poor TO performance in last four games)
a/to: 0.89:1
%assisted: 28.6% (Wake scored the vast majority of their points in one-on-one situations)
fast break pts: 11 (15.7% of their points; not great)
block%: 9.9%; 14.6% of 2-point shots (we're actually a very good shotblocking team, even without Zion)
steal%: 4.0% (third pathetic steals performance in last four games)


Our offense was fairly terrible; our defense was fairly decent. As obvious from the score, we were lucky to escape with a W.

Kfanarmy
03-06-2019, 12:25 AM
ADVANCED STATS

Possessions: 75.0 (pretty fast against a middle-of-the-pack tempo team)

OFFENSE

oRtg: 0.95 (our adjusted oRtg was 0.94, a clunker after three straight 120+ adjusted performance without Zion)
eFG%: 47.4% (weak)
3pt%: 31.8% (pretty close to average for this year's team)
2pt%: 47.2% (not good)
%threes: 37.9% (a bit high for this year's team)
FT rate: 44.8% (strong)
OR%: 25.0% (lousy)
TO%: 20.0% (yuck; fifth straight TO% over 18%, and sixth out of eight)
a/to: 0.67:1
%assisted: 41.7%
fast break pts: 10 (14.1% of our points)


DEFENSE

dRtg: 0.93 (adjusted that's 0.93, better than it looked)
eFG%: 44.3% (not bad)
3pt%: 30.4% (almost exactly Wake's average)
2pt%: 43.8% (good enough)
%threes: 32.4%
FT rate: 16.9% (very good)
DR%: 75.0% (much better than it seemed; our 3rd straight 75%+ DR performance; and if you go down to 70%, it's 6 of 7, 8 of 10, 11 of 15, 15 of 21; we've been a decent defensive rebounding team for most of the ACC season)
TO%: 12.0% (third poor TO performance in last four games)
a/to: 0.89:1
%assisted: 28.6% (Wake scored the vast majority of their points in one-on-one situations)
fast break pts: 11 (15.7% of their points; not great)
block%: 9.9%; 14.6% of 2-point shots (we're actually a very good shotblocking team, even without Zion)
steal%: 4.0% (third pathetic steals performance in last four games)


Our offense was fairly terrible; our defense was fairly decent. As obvious from the score, we were lucky to escape with a W.

Unforced turnovers...too many of them

AZLA
03-06-2019, 12:53 AM
Huge brainfart on the inbound. Good D on the play. Incredibly lucky on the miss.

Hope reinforcements are coming soon.

Yup. Jack was thinking, oh wait, someone else has to inbound and... doh!

I liked Coach Ks reaction after the mistake though. Other coaches might have pitched a fit. K grinned wryly, with a look of Ďokay stay focusedí run this D. Stay composed and win.

Childress was en fuego so kudos to Duke locking down the defense on him to force him into that terrible fading three which really had no Scotty Thurman chance of going in. It was so bad Wake was fortunate to get the awkward rebound, gather and shoot... but oh wait Jack totally redeemed himself by contending and altering the shot well without fouling.

That definitely was a character building experience for him.

Did you see the stats on Zion when playing particularly the in the paint? It was an over a +20 point average differential!

I assume your reinforcement comment wasnít just about Joey😜

AZLA
03-06-2019, 01:00 AM
The proclamation by tv talking heads thar Duke could beat the Cleveland Cavaliers has become more asinine as the season has progressed.

True. Itís now the Lakers.

TNTDevil
03-06-2019, 01:04 AM
Unforced turnovers...too many of them
You misspelled RJ Barrett.


I KID! I KID!

But, seriously. How does a kid with RJ's touch have such a poor passing skills?

LACK OF PRACTICE!

I kid, I kid! I'll be here all week! Try the crab cakes and tip your servers!

I actually love the kid, TOs, forced shots and all, he's a freshman, but sweet, six--pound, fourteen ounce baby jeebus can the kid score and rebound. I, most of the time, feel comforted when he has the ball. If only we could develop him one, maybe two more years...

If only.

uh_no
03-06-2019, 01:05 AM
I liked Coach Ks reaction after the mistake though. Other coaches might have pitched a fit. K grinned wryly, with a look of Ďokay stay focusedí run this D. Stay composed and win.


i thought it was more of a "what else could go wrong tonight" kind of look. As one of the assistants said after the game "it felt like a loss"

InSpades
03-06-2019, 01:14 AM
A literal reading of these two rules says that if a player catches the ball after an opponent makes a basket while standing in bounds, it is an immediate violation as he has not released the ball and is touching the playing court.



One might argue (and I might agree) that a player is not "entitled to the throw-in" until he is out of bounds beyond the baseline. So once Jack gets the ball and is beyond the baseline the "throw-in" has started.

Maybe it is slightly confusing but Jack could avoid all confusion by just not catching the ball from the ref while standing out of bounds beyond the baseline! Grrr... that could've ended really badly.

uh_no
03-06-2019, 01:41 AM
One might argue (and I might agree) that a player is not "entitled to the throw-in" until he is out of bounds beyond the baseline. So once Jack gets the ball and is beyond the baseline the "throw-in" has started.

Maybe it is slightly confusing but Jack could avoid all confusion by just not catching the ball from the ref while standing out of bounds beyond the baseline! Grrr... that could've ended really badly.

You'd think....but that's not the case


The ball is at the disposal of a player when it is:Available to a player after a goal and the official begins the throw-in
count

but wait a second....we just saw before


the throw-in count shall begin when the ball is at the
disposal of the player

so we have some circular reasoning here....by rule, the ball is not at the disposal of the player until the throw-in count has been started (there are a couple other conditions, none of which apply to my hypothetical, and, in fact, in most cases after a made basket), but the throw-in count can't start until the ball is at the disposal of the player.....in computing terms, we'd call that "deadlock"

Again, nowhere does it state that the player must be out of bounds.

Nowhere is entitled defined as a player who must be out of bounds. the only thing the rulebooks says



Clearly signal, when a team is entitled to a throw-in:
a. The act that caused the ball to become dead.
b. The team entitled to the throw-in.
c. The designated spot, unless the throw-in comes after a successful goal or
an awarded goal.

you are correct that it is also imprecise on this point....but given it refers to a team as entitled to a throw in, I think a far more analogous reading of "entitled player" is any player who is on the entitled team.

proelitedota
03-06-2019, 01:45 AM
I am glad that Wake gave us a game.

For a moment it looked like our season is over with Bolden and Tre going to the locker-room. I thought to myself, if this passes, it should be the lowest point of the season from a basketball point of view. Of course we can collapse in the NCAA tournie but it would not be to an inferior opponent than Wake at Cameron.

A relief to get this game out of the way. For K it probably felt like the big fever sweat that you have before you fully recover from a cold.

Looking forward to seeing Zion back in a jersey again so we can put the fun back into playing Duke basketball again.

AZLA
03-06-2019, 01:47 AM
i thought it was more of a "what else could go wrong tonight" kind of look. As one of the assistants said after the game "it felt like a loss"

Maybe true though he got them to re focus effectively/quickly and though it Ďfelt like a lossí it was a win so on to whatever fate is waiting down in Chapel Hill...

AZLA
03-06-2019, 01:53 AM
You'd think...but that's not the case



but wait a second...we just saw before



so we have some circular reasoning here...by rule, the ball is not at the disposal of the player until the throw-in count has been started (there are a couple other conditions, none of which apply to my hypothetical, and, in fact, in most cases after a made basket), but the throw-in count can't start until the ball is at the disposal of the player....in computing terms, we'd call that "deadlock"

Again, nowhere does it state that the player must be out of bounds.

Nowhere is entitled defined as a player who must be out of bounds. the only thing the rulebooks says



you are correct that it is also imprecise on this point...but given it refers to a team as entitled to a throw in, I think a far more analogous reading of "entitled player" is any player who is on the entitled team.

Kinda like when WOPR in War Games realizes no one can ever win at tic tac so no super power can win all out nuclear war?

Jack could have handed the ball to someone else to in bound as long as his feet stayed behind the baseline I think.

Whatís funny is this would never be called in the NBA...

In this case it was the right call but Iíve seen college refs let it slide. At this juncture of the game it was justified.

ratamero
03-06-2019, 05:10 AM
Yikes. Glad I didn't see this one live. Will probably skip the VOD and this topic (other than Kedsy's advanced stats breakdown).

lotusland
03-06-2019, 05:31 AM
RJ needed some help scoring last night but the cavalry never arrived. I donít blame him for trying to generate some offense by feeding the post and trying some lobs even if a bit errant . Alex and Marques have both taken some baby steps as scoring options since Zion went down but, when Cam is off, itís not enough to beat a good team and barely enough to beat a bad team. Even considering missed free throws and scoring limitations, we made a lot of crucial stops down the stretch to eek out and ugly win. I hope Zion and Bolden are ready to go Saturday. Especially Zion.

DUKIE V(A)
03-06-2019, 05:34 AM
This is important. He had his hand all over that last shot. Didn't sulk. Very important.

Agreed. The definition of next play. I have watched the replay a bunch of times trying to determine whether Jack got a fingertip on that last shot. I canít tell, but he definitely did a fantastic job of challenging it without fouling.

slower
03-06-2019, 06:19 AM
Though not totally germane to your post, what about the foul that nearly took out Tre? I apologize but can't remember who it was that fouled him but, it was completely and utterly obvious he wasn't making a play on the ball, his leg was so extended, another millisecond and Tre's knee goes in the kid's jimmy. Then Tre gets fouled again as he's going for a rebound only to have the Wake player slide under him, eight feet from the basket, with his back turned to Tre and his butt sticking out. No attempt whatsoever to make a play on the ball.
As I griped during the in-game thread, it was very, VERY clearly an intentional hip check.

And as I griped when Tre got cross-checked in the Syracuse game, it's not that hard to rough somebody up (or injure them) without it looking intentional. And, of course, there's the always-infuriating UNC tactic of sliding under shooters ever so slightly, with the intent of making them worry about getting hurt (if not actually injuring them - hello, Joel James/Okafor).

Saratoga2
03-06-2019, 06:28 AM
Coach K's conference cleared up the Bolden situation. He took a hit to the hip and had it checked out. He was okay to play at the end and coach K decided not to reinsert him at the very end. Bolden is a presence in the paint to a greater extent both offensively and defensively than Javin and should be okay for Saturday.

Tre bumped knees when splitting defenders and wound up with a bruised knee. Painful but not damaging so he too will be okay for Saturday.

Coach K said something to the effect that Cam picking up so many charging fouls took his second scorer out of the game, meaning to him I think that even more of the burden fell to RJ. Clearly Cam does not have the feel for the game to pull up for a mid range jumper when cut off going to the basket. His offensive game in the first half was horrible as he even missed on a dunk and didn't score a point. If he is our second scorer (when Zion is not available) then this team is in trouble. My own take, is we missed his defense more than his scoring.

Coach K I believe also indicated they went away from set plays and went fully motion. What I saw is RJ singlehandely trying to will the team to a win. He is so good that he can almost do it alone, often trying to beat three defenders. No doubt he gets tired doing it and both his attempts at passing and his foul shooting seemed to reflect his fatigue.

Jack is not big enough nor athletic enough to score inside against 6'8" to 6"10" guys inside. Coach K said the mental mistake at the end of the game was inexcusable. Glad for Jack that it didn't result in a loss as it would have been a tough burden for him to carry.

I guess the staff hasn't noticed that Alex can score the ball and should have gotten some touches late in the game. The concept of just giving the ball to RJ will not work against a better team and won't work on Saturday. The game plan needs to involve Marques, Tre and Alex and hopefully Cam will get his act together. Didn't sound like Zion will be back for UNC.

Neals384
03-06-2019, 06:43 AM
Wondering why we donít get the ball to AOC more often. Am I missing something?

Yes. This team almost never sets off-the-ball picks that would allow an active AOC to get to his shooting spot unguarded.

DarkstarWahoo
03-06-2019, 07:08 AM
Jack could have handed the ball to someone else to in bound as long as his feet stayed behind the baseline I think.

I think this is correct. Every once in a great, great while - usually in a full-court Laettner situation - you will see a team make the first pass to another player standing out of bounds at the other end of the baseline, then have that player make the ďrealĒ inbounds pass. I would always get inordinately excited when that happened. (It occurs to me that I canít remember seeing it in years and that itís possible it was outlawed.)

kmspeaks
03-06-2019, 07:24 AM
Though not totally germane to your post, what about the foul that nearly took out Tre? I apologize but can't remember who it was that fouled him but, it was completely and utterly obvious he wasn't making a play on the ball, his leg was so extended, another millisecond and Tre's knee goes in the kid's jimmy. Then Tre gets fouled again as he's going for a rebound only to have the Wake player slide under him, eight feet from the basket, with his back turned to Tre and his butt sticking out. No attempt whatsoever to make a play on the ball.

I mean, wanker-word, if you can "go to the monitor" too look at somebody getting popped in the chops by an elbow or shoulder, you should be able to do the same on plays like these.

That wraps up this week's edition of Old Man Yells at Clouds. Episode eleventy-bajillion.

I thought the first one was very intentional and ridiculous. The second one I'm not so sure. It looked like the Wake kid was going hard after the ball and then realized he wasn't going to beat Tre there so he tried to pull up and turned to brace himself for impact and not hit face to face. Maybe a little reckless, but probably not intentional.

Neals384
03-06-2019, 08:01 AM
This is not a dig at Vrank. But I'm not sure how I feel about starting him tonight. The Carolina Way is always to start the seniors. Many other schools do that as well. However, I always felt Duke just played its regular rotation, treating the game like any other game. Wrt senior night, the key to seeing a bench senior get it was to blow out the other team, thus giving the regular rotation incentive. I actually like Vrank, since his attitude has always seemed good. And I'm glad he got a block in the box score of his final game at Cameron. But I would just rather see the regular starters play well from the opening tip, and then have seen Vrank (or Besser, for that matter) get in the game later. Tonight that did not happen, and I wonder if starting Vrank had anything to do with the poor play by treating this game differently. I'm sure some may say it did not. I still wonder. And next year, unless he becomes part of the rotation, I hope Robinson sits until he gets in later as a human victory cigar over Carolina.

That all being said, I trust in K overall. He's the boss, and I'm just in the peanut gallery. And a win's a win.

9F

To see if this is a Duke tradition, you'd have to go all the way back to 2013-14, the last time Duke had a scholarship senior who was not a regular starter. On senior night that year, Josh Hairston started. Not an exact comparison because Josh was in the rotation, averaging 10 MPG. By the way, that game was vs. UNCheat. You didn't exactly say the only reason Vrank started was because the game was supposed to be a rout - in any case the Hairston example shows that's not the case.

By the way, the previous game was a 10 point loss, on the road, to Wake. I didn't check the post-game thread, but I'm sure we DBRers were moaning that we'd never beat the cheats if we couldn't beat Wake.

Going further back, in 2005-06 Melchionni and Dockery started on senior night, also against the cheats.