Will another player ever have his Jersey retired under Coach K?

[kybluedevil]

Is this era of one-and-done's, will Another player under Coach K ever have his jersey retired?

Is graduation still a requirement? What if a 1-and-done wins a title for us, National POY, and Final Four MVP???

Just random musings pre-Wake Forest game.

[GoDuke2015]

Is this era of one-and-done's, will Another player under Coach K ever have his jersey retired?

Is graduation still a requirement? What if a 1-and-done wins a title for us, National POY, and Final Four MVP???

Just random musings pre-Wake Forest game.



Graduation is still definitely a requirement (its why Elton Brand doesn't have his jersey/number retired), along with some player of the year award.

[CrazyNotCrazie]

Is this era of one-and-done's, will Another player under Coach K ever have his jersey retired?

Is graduation still a requirement? What if a 1-and-done wins a title for us, National POY, and Final Four MVP???

Just random musings pre-Wake Forest game.

As one of the worst offenders of the Joey Baker redshirt discussion I might not be the one to talk, but can we save this until Memorial Day or so and focus on the current season? I think if you search you can find plenty of discussions of this topic.

[simplyluvin]

If Grayson was the lynchpin for one more title, I had a feeling they would retire his number. I personally do not see a OAD player ever getting his jersey in the rafters. Maybe a two-year guy who had transcendent numbers on back to back FF with at least one title.

In general, a title is obviously not a prerequisite (see JJ and Landlord), but it may be required for a two or three year guy (see JWill) to create the kind of legacy that gets you in the Cameron rafters.

[uh_no]

i half expected the thread to be asking whether vrank should hvae his number retired :D

[Jeffrey]

IMO, no.

[uh_no]

IMO, no.

grayson was the last great hope.

In this case, I think the issue is almost as much whether K coaches for 4 more years as much as whether a player hangs around that long. The proposed changes to the NBA rules would help a great deal in keeping guys around....not only becuase they must, but now some of those mid-level recruits who could stay 4 years would likely come back to duke without fearing having two future NBA all stars recruited over them.

[jgehtland]

Is this era of one-and-done's, will Another player under Coach K ever have his jersey retired?

Is graduation still a requirement? What if a 1-and-done wins a title for us, National POY, and Final Four MVP???

Just random musings pre-Wake Forest game.

Well, since the era of OADs is coming to the end in 2 years, I’ll answer “no” to the question as asked.

And since K is likely to retire shortly after that, the larger question of will K ever coach another player whose jersey will be retired is also likely “no”.

However, I fully expect that future duke basketball players will finish their careers with a jersey in the rafters.

[Troublemaker]

Depends on what you mean by "under Coach K". One or more of these OADs that Coach K has coached probably will receive jersey retirement eventually*, but since it takes a lot of time to graduate from Duke using only summers, it probably won't happen while Coach K is still coaching.

* It just seems inevitable that the standards will change to allow it in the future, and technically time served hasn't been one of the "requirements" for jersey retirement, anyway. "Requirements" that can change based on Coach K's whim, anyway.

[BandAlum83]

I suppose it’s possible if once the OAD rules change that K could coach a future number retiree for a year or two. Gotta get lucky, and it totally depends on when K decides to retire.

I would say it is highly unlikely, however. Even when the OAD era ends, standouts will still leave early. I mean it’s not like NPOY winners will magically all be seniors who graduate.

[ChillinDuke]

I mean, it's a crazy longshot. But if Zion won NPOY and NDPOY (he's on the final 10 on Naismith), and hung an ACCT banner, and hung a NCAAT banner, amidst all of the intense scrutiny he's gotten the likes of which we've never seen before, in this day and age of OAD in a totally different era of the world, would K do it?

I think I would.

There's a lot of if's in that hypothetical, but think about it.

- Chillin

[Pghdukie]

Singler !

[BandAlum83]

I mean, it's a crazy longshot. But if Zion won NPOY and NDPOY (he's on the final 10 on Naismith), and hung an ACCT banner, and hung a NCAAT banner, amidst all of the intense scrutiny he's gotten the likes of which we've never seen before, in this day and age of OAD in a totally different era of the world, would K do it?

I think I would.

There's a lot of if's in that hypothetical, but think about it.

- Chillin

No..

[Kedsy]

Well, I assume Joey Baker would have, if he'd stayed for a fifth season, but now he's only playing four, I don't see it.

[Acymetric]

Depends on what you mean by "under Coach K". One or more of these OADs that Coach K has coached probably will receive jersey retirement eventually*, but since it takes a lot of time to graduate from Duke using only summers, it probably won't happen while Coach K is still coaching.

* It just seems inevitable that the standards will change to allow it in the future, and technically time served hasn't been one of the "requirements" for jersey retirement, anyway. "Requirements" that can change based on Coach K's whim, anyway.

I think even if you change the standards to allow one year players to qualify, none of them accomplished enough to be retired. Zion maybe has an outside shot, but as ChillinDuke mentions below we would probably need to win both tourneys and he would need to be the clear leader on the team (Final Four MVP) along with NPOY of course. Even with that, I'm not sure it gets him there...retired banners are about career accomplishments and Zion isn't going to be near top anything as far as career stats at Duke. I think for an OAD a championship is a must (obviously not the case for 4 year players although they all at least won 1 or more ACC championships).


I mean, it's a crazy longshot. But if Zion won NPOY and NDPOY (he's on the final 10 on Naismith), and hung an ACCT banner, and hung a NCAAT banner, amidst all of the intense scrutiny he's gotten the likes of which we've never seen before, in this day and age of OAD in a totally different era of the world, would K do it?

I think I would.

There's a lot of if's in that hypothetical, but think about it.

- Chillin

Has Zion really been scrutinized that much? Seems to me he is mostly heaped with effusive praise even by the most ardent Duke haters.


As to my answer to the OP: No, Coach K will not coach another player that ends up having their jersey retired. I suspect we will have more jerseys retired eventually as the college/NBA landscape changes, but it will be after K's time.

[uh_no]

I mean, it's a crazy longshot. But if Zion won NPOY and NDPOY (he's on the final 10 on Naismith), and hung an ACCT banner, and hung a NCAAT banner, amidst all of the intense scrutiny he's gotten the likes of which we've never seen before, in this day and age of OAD in a totally different era of the world, would K do it?

I think I would.

There's a lot of if's in that hypothetical, but think about it.

- Chillin


no. team banners have nothing to do with individual retirement honors, and graduation has always been the absolute baseline requirement.

[Natty_B]

I've long thought #2 should be retired jointly for Nolan Smith and Quinn Cook.

[UrinalCake]

It would have to be a guy who is good enough to play lots of minutes as a freshman, but not good enough to leave early. Either that or he’s good enough to leave early but chooses to stay four years because he loves being in college, like Grayson. Given that non-OAD freshmen get almost no playing time under the current hierarchy, the player would have to really explode as a sophomore (again, similar to Grayson) in order to generate enough career numbers to be in consideration.

I could see Moore and Ellis fitting this description. Probably Ellis moreso, because I think Moore will be “too good” and is unlikely to stay four years. Next year’s class has only Carey as a sure fire OAD, it’s a little different than our recent classes of 3 and 4 OAD’s, so the freshmen will all have a chance to contribute. If Baker had kept his redshirt then maybe I would consider him as a candidate because he would have started out with a year of practice under his belt and thus could have played a lot his first year. But it’s pretty high bar to project a guy to be among the all time greats before his career even starts.

[Troublemaker]

I think even if you change the standards to allow one year players to qualify, none of them accomplished enough to be retired. Zion maybe has an outside shot, but as ChillinDuke mentions below we would probably need to win both tourneys and he would need to be the clear leader on the team (Final Four MVP) along with NPOY of course. Even with that, I'm not sure it gets him there...retired banners are about career accomplishments and Zion isn't going to be near top anything as far as career stats at Duke. I think for an OAD a championship is a must (obviously not the case for 4 year players although they all at least won 1 or more ACC championships).

Yeah, that's probably right. I forgot that no one on the 2015 team won an NPOY award, although Tyus did win Final Four MOP and South Region MVP (although Justise probably deserved the South Region MVP more).

Zion's probably the best bet, and I think it would "only" take a national championship + NPOY + eventual graduation.

[ChillinDuke]

<snip>


Has Zion really been scrutinized that much? Seems to me he is mostly heaped with effusive praise even by the most ardent Duke haters.


<snip>

Perhaps scrutinize is slightly the wrong verb with a somewhat negative connotation. But, yes, I believe no one has had the impact Zion has in terms of people tuning in to watch explicitly him. Even Grayson, who had a lot of people talking about him and directing negative opinions toward him, I don't believe people were actually watching him on their TV sets.

I don't believe anyone has generated the eyeballs Zion has.

- Chillin

[Acymetric]

no. team banners have nothing to do with individual retirement honors, and graduation has always been the absolute baseline requirement.

I don't think we have enough datapoints. So far, all the guys that have been retired would have been retired without the banners. I think for some of the borderline guys, winning a banner could have pushed them over the edge (Nolan Smith is a notable example here...imagine an alternate universe where Nolan leads the team to a title and you have to believe that jersey goes up).

[uh_no]

(Nolan Smith is a notable example here...imagine an alternate universe where Nolan leads the team to a title and you have to believe that jersey goes up).

i don't, in fact. the understanding was kyle was closer than Nolan.

[Billy Dat]

If we assume POY awards are required for jersey retirement (and while there are many different POY awards...) let's look at the Naismith, which seems to go to seniors/upperclassmen in recent years.

2014 Doug McDermott Creighton Forward Senior
2015 Frank Kaminsky Wisconsin Forward Senior
2016 Buddy Hield Oklahoma Guard Senior
2017 Frank Mason III Kansas Guard Senior
2018 Jalen Brunson Villanova Guard Junior

You have undersized guys (Mason, Brunson), late bloomers (Kaminsky, Hield) and not sure fire pro athletes (McDermott). Granted, these guys have all had decent NBA careers to date...no flame outs yet. But, the question is, would these guys have gone earlier if they played at Duke, where the lights are hot, the college-to-pro pipeline is firmly laid, and the Duke effect might shoot them up draft boards? I say yes...which means they wouldn't stick around long enough to hit all the retirement criteria.

A future Duke player will probably have their number retired as "forever" is a long time. It is especially likely to happen if the environment changes so much that college basketball is no longer the primary feeder to the NBA. But, if great college players still wind up going to the NBA ASAP, then I think it'll probably never happen again.

[Wander]

Depends on what you mean by "under Coach K". One or more of these OADs that Coach K has coached probably will receive jersey retirement eventually*, but since it takes a lot of time to graduate from Duke using only summers, it probably won't happen while Coach K is still coaching.

* It just seems inevitable that the standards will change to allow it in the future, and technically time served hasn't been one of the "requirements" for jersey retirement, anyway. "Requirements" that can change based on Coach K's whim, anyway.

I agree with this take. Coach K was never going to use zone, we were never going to get another Star Wars movie, etc etc. Things change. My guess is Zion eventually gets his jersey retired after we win the national title this year and he becomes Duke's best all-time NBA player.

[Acymetric]

I agree with this take. Coach K was never going to use zone, we were never going to get another Star Wars movie, etc etc. Things change. My guess is Zion eventually gets his jersey retired after we win the national title this year and he becomes Duke's best all-time NBA player.

I just don't see it. Is he approaching any single season records*?

*Not freshmen records, overall

[niveklaen]

I suspect that several of Coach K's OAD players will have their numbers retired in 15-20 yrs by their NBA teams.

[Acymetric]

I suspect that several of Coach K's OAD players will have their numbers retired in 15-20 yrs by their NBA teams.

I'm not so sure...maybe Zion or Tatum I guess, who else would have a shot at that? Retired jerseys in the NBA are tough to come by.

[BandAlum83]

I'm not so sure...maybe Zion or Tatum I guess, who else would have a shot at that? Retired jerseys in the NBA are tough to come by.

Kyrie?

In the age of free agency, retired jerseys are hard to come by in every professional sport. There will be "franchise" type players that will stick with one team long enough, but will they be good enough? Players like Brady and Chipper are no-brainers.

The Braves pitching staff held together long enough for all of them to have their numbers retired. Maddox had a long enough career and enough time with 2 teams to have his number retired by two teams, although it was a twofer with Fergesun Jenkins for the Cubbies.

Will Alex Rodriguez's number be retired? Maybe.

Point is, all sports are grappling with this now. Even the Yankees who love to retire numbers and have done so with 20!

[Acymetric]

Kyrie?

In the age of free agency, retired jerseys are hard to come by in every professional sport. There will be "franchise" type players that will stick with one team long enough, but will they be good enough? Players like Brady and Chipper are no-brainers.

The Braves pitching staff held together long enough for all of them to have their numbers retired. Maddox had a long enough career and enough time with 2 teams to have his number retired by two teams, although it was a twofer with Fergesun Jenkins for the Cubbies.

Will Alex Rodriguez's number be retired? Maybe.

Point is, all sports are grappling with this now. Even the Yankees who love to retire numbers and have done so with 20!

Who is going to retire his jersey though? Certainly not the Cavs...I guess we'll see if he sticks around in Boston. You are correct about free agency being a big factor.

[Indoor66]

If Grayson was the lynchpin for one more title, I had a feeling they would retire his number. I personally do not see a OAD player ever getting his jersey in the rafters. Maybe a two-year guy who had transcendent numbers on back to back FF with at least one title.

In general, a title is obviously not a prerequisite (see JJ and Landlord), but it may be required for a two or three year guy (see JWill) to create the kind of legacy that gets you in the Cameron rafters.

I believe JWill graduated in 3 years.

[BandAlum83]

Who is going to retire his jersey though? Certainly not the Cavs...I guess we'll see if he sticks around in Boston. You are correct about free agency being a big factor.

The poster to whom I answered put Zion out there, and he hasn't even hit the NBA yet. Kyrie could be, when all is said and done, a hall of famer. But will he stick with one team long enough for a jersey retirement? Who knows?

Look at Lebron, the greatest ever? Maybe, but what team would retire his Jersey? Miami? Cleveland? Both? Neither?

[Acymetric]

The poster to whom I answered put Zion out there, and he hasn't even hit the NBA yet. Kyrie could be, when all is said and done, a hall of famer. But will he stick with one team long enough for a jersey retirement? Who knows?

Look at Lebron, the greatest ever? Maybe, but what team would retire his Jersey? Miami? Cleveland? Both? Neither?

I think we're in agreement.

(and that poster was me...I was just basically listing players that I don't think are already ruled out either due to being unlikely to achieve that level of play for most players or unlikely to do it for the same team for a long enough period of time, in Kyrie's case I think he would need to go on an incredible run with the Celtics or his next team given how far into his career he already is, and I am willing to bet against that happening)

[BandAlum83]

I think we're in agreement.

We are, but I just like to hear my fingers on the keyboard and I don't feel like doing work right now :)

[vfefrenzy]

Will Alex Rodriguez's number be retired?

No. He's not beloved anywhere.

[uh_no]

No. He's not beloved anywhere.

perhaps over at the scott boras residence...

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

I believe JWill graduated in 3 years.

The story told at the time was that Duke put him on a schedule to graduate in three years from the get go, as he was clearly an early departure candidate, but had promised his mother he would get his degree.

Certainly didn't hurt that he was by all accounts a great student too.

[OZZIE4DUKE]

The one absolute requirement so far is that the player graduate from Duke. Jason Williams graduated in 3 and after winning the POY twice, yada yada yada, his jersey was retired.

The next jersey that should be retired is #34, for Jim Spanarkel. If Mike Dunlevy had stayed for his senior year and won a NPOY award, which he was the rumored favorite for the next year (his senior year), it would have been a double ceremony for #34, but alas, he screwed up and went pro after being named a captain at the banquet (before he declared).

If Elton Brand ever gets his Duke degree, his jersey will go up. Don't hold your breath but not impossible. And yeah, Kyle, Nolan and Quin had a lot of support here on the boards, but it didn't happen. If Kyle hadn't lost his shot senior year ... http://www.crazietalk.net/ourhouse/images/smilies/devil9f.gif

[DarkstarWahoo]

The poster to whom I answered put Zion out there, and he hasn't even hit the NBA yet. Kyrie could be, when all is said and done, a hall of famer. But will he stick with one team long enough for a jersey retirement? Who knows?

Look at Lebron, the greatest ever? Maybe, but what team would retire his Jersey? Miami? Cleveland? Both? Neither?

Cleveland will absolutely retire his jersey.

[lotusland]

The one absolute requirement so far is that the player graduate from Duke. Jason Williams graduated in 3 and after winning the POY twice, yada yada yada, his jersey was retired.

The next jersey that should be retired is #34, for Jim Spanarkel. If Mike Dunlevy had stayed for his senior year and won a NPOY award, which he was the rumored favorite for the next year (his senior year), it would have been a double ceremony for #34, but alas, he screwed up and went pro after being named a captain at the banquet (before he declared).

If Elton Brand ever gets his Duke degree, his jersey will go up. Don't hold your breath but not impossible. And yeah, Kyle, Nolan and Quin had a lot of support here on the boards, but it didn't happen. If Kyle hadn't lost his shot senior year ... http://www.crazietalk.net/ourhouse/images/smilies/devil9f.gif

Quin Cook? I love Quin but I’ve never heard anyone suggest that his jersey should be retired. I’d rate MP2 well ahead of Quin. I think Grayson and Kyle both get there with a Senior season that met preseason expectations. Lots of “what ifs”. What if G had returned as the best player on a championship team his senior year? What if Mason and company finished with a strong second half against Louisville and went on to win it all ?

[Acymetric]

Quin Cook? I love Quin but I’ve never heard anyone suggest that his jersey should be retired. I’d rate MP2 well ahead of Quin. I think Grayson and Kyle both get there with a Senior season that met preseason expectations. Lots of “what ifs”. What if G had returned as the best player on a championship team his senior year? What if Mason and company finished with a strong second half against Louisville and went on to win it all ?

Quinn Cook's Jersey is retired in my heart, but he probably wasn't super close to getting it retired in Cameron. Still one of my all time favorites, in no small part because of the way he decided from young bench player with what appeared to possibly be an attitude problem a la Hurley to a charismatic leader on a championship team. No way MP2 was ahead of Quinn. I think you can add Nolan to your list of Kyle/Grayson (I think Grayson is the most borderline of the three, actually). Well, maybe not preseason expectation for Nolan, but early season when he was getting a lot of NPOY hype (and deservedly so, he was playing phenomenally).

[johnb]

My guess is that the next coach will evolve the rules, because no one wants the retired jersey list to remain static for 20 years. It's also possible that K evolves his own graduation rule, just as he evolved his own attitude toward OAD's.

For example, they could bring back Elton Brand and say, "the young man turns 40 next week. He was an excellent student in his 2 years at Duke, was the consensus NPOY in college, the 1st pick in the draft, an NBA all star, and retired after 16 years in the NBA. At the request of the 76ers and Coach K, he returned for an additional playing year with the 76ers in order to mentor their young talent, a period of time that corresponded to their transition from horrible to terrific. Soon after his 2nd retirement, rich as Croesus, he took a job in player development and then--a few months later--took over as GM of a G-League team. A year after that, he was named GM for the 76ers, which is one of the more powerful positions in the sport. Recognizing that he could have opted for an additional year or two on campus, it might be argued that he's a Duke alumnus (which he is), has represented Duke at the very highest level both on and off the court, and despite the option of floating in a swimming pool for the next few decades, he has sought out a challenging leadership role in professional sports." It'd be an easy sell.

Hanging the very occasional OAD in the rafters strikes me as reasonable, good PR, and a visible reminder that Duke players have had an unusual amount of post-basketball success, which should count for something.