MBB: Duke vs Miami (Saturday 3/2, 4pm ET) Pre-game and In-game Thread

[CDu]

Let's move on from last night. Post your thoughts here. Let's hope we see the return of Zion! Or at least the return of winning!

[Jeffrey]

Let's hope we see the return of Zion! Or at least the return of winning!

I'm predicting both.

[ndkjr70]

Zion or no Zion, this will be a blow-out.

As a UM alum, I've suffered through most of their games this season. This is Larranaga's worst team since he took over, and they will absolutely not compete with Duke. Their game against Carolina was only close because Chris Lykes, a 5-foot-2 87 pound point-guard, turned momentarily into Steph Curry.

They're 0-8 on the road. Their best win of the season, by a long-shot, is by 1-point at home over Clemson. They're bad on offense (67th) and worse on defense (96th). If this isn't a 20-point game by halftime, we've got big problems.

[jipops]

I think we'll see an uncomfortably close game. It's a bad time to be seeing the defense trend the way it is. Zion or no Zion, it could be awhile until this team gets back its late December/ early January mojo (pre Tyus Jones injury). I'm hoping this occurs by ACCT or NCAA time. But I don't expect it to happen this weekend or next week with Wake.

Just as much as I'd like to see the return of Zion, I'd like to see the return of Tre Jones as well.

[rocketeli]

Zion or no Zion, this will be a blow-out.

As a UM alum, I've suffered through most of their games this season. This is Larranaga's worst team since he took over, and they will absolutely not compete with Duke. Their game against Carolina was only close because Chris Lykes, a 5-foot-2 87 pound point-guard, turned momentarily into Steph Curry.

They're 0-8 on the road. Their best win of the season, by a long-shot, is by 1-point at home over Clemson. They're bad on offense (67th) and worse on defense (96th). If this isn't a 20-point game by halftime, we've got big problems.

Trying to reverse jinx your canes?
If there's one thing Duke fans have learned it is that you can throw out the record book when teams play Duke. It's their Superbowl and beating Duke will make their season and we wouldn't have it any other way. But it does make for tougher games.
Also, it's a bit disingenuous to call any major division 1 basketball team bad. They all are stocked with players that were the best in their county/area/state/country, and they all have large, top-of-the-profession coaching staffs, and they all have massive support entities, such as video tech, medical staff, training tables, weight rooms etc. (and at UNC people to take care of their classes for them). You can never just show up and expect to win.

[jimsumner]

I believe this game is scheduled for a 4 P.M. tipoff.

[ndkjr70]

Trying to reverse jinx your canes?
If there's one thing Duke fans have learned it is that you can throw out the record book when teams play Duke. It's their Superbowl and beating Duke will make their season and we wouldn't have it any other way. But it does make for tougher games.
Also, it's a bit disingenuous to call any major division 1 basketball team bad. They all are stocked with players that were the best in their county/area/state/country, and they all have large, top-of-the-profession coaching staffs, and they all have massive support entities, such as video tech, medical staff, training tables, weight rooms etc. (and at UNC people to take care of their classes for them). You can never just show up and expect to win.

Mom and Dad went to Duke. My first word was Duke. My first love was Duke. Only reason I chose Miami over Duke was for their 5-year professional degree in architecture; which Duke did not have. I cheer for my Canes plenty, but I worse a Duke jersey to every Miami / Duke basketball game during my time there. (One of those games was the 30-point blowout loss, the most I've ever hated my own school).

No reverse jinx here. DDMF.

[CDu]

After a tough loss against a good Va Tech team, the Devils look to bounce back against the 'Canes of Miami. To be kind, this is not Jim Larranaga's best team. They've lost a lot of players to early entry in the NBA, and he hasn't been able to restock with as much talent recently. No doubt the Adidas scandal hasn't helped, nor have injuries helped. But the result has been a pretty down year for Miami. They are 4-11 in conference, with their best results being a 1-point win at home over bubblicious Clemson and a near-victory-but-ultimately-overtime-loss against UNC in Chapel Hill.

The 'Canes are a mediocre-to-decent offensive team and a mediocre defensive team. On offense, they protect the ball well and hit the rare free throws they get, are an awful rebounding team and don't draw fouls, and are pretty mediocre to bad at everything else. They will take a lot of 3s, which along with the low turnover rate keeps their offense in the "okay" range. Defensively, the only thing they do well is avoid committing fouls. They are, in fact, spectacular at keeping opponents off the free throw line. But they rebound poorly, don't force turnovers, and don't block shots. And they don't prevent baskets terribly well.

It's not a deep squad, which doesn't help.

Centers: Ebuka Izundu (6'10", 230lb senior) is the man in the middle for Miami. He's an athletic and long player who isn't the most built of players, though he's worked hard to address that over his time. He's a very capable rebounder at both ends, a decent shotblocker, and a terrific finisher inside. He's improved as a free throw shooter, though he doesn't get there too often. He's perhaps the only guy who gets in foul trouble for the 'Canes, but that's a problem as hey don't really have another strong option behind him. Izundu is a big step down in skill from Blackshear, which will be a nice change of pace. Sam Waardenburg (6'10", 215lb sophomore from New Zealand) has been thrust into a more prominent role than expected or desired due to injuries (more on that later) and the ineligibility of Dewan Hernandez. Waardenburg is a good 3pt shooter, kind of a very poor man's Ryan Kelly. He doesn't rebound a ton and he doesn't have much strength. But he can space the floor. He plays essentially starter's minutes and often shares the floor with Izundu.

Forwards: Anthony Lawrence II (6'7" 210lb senior) is the only healthy forward. Lawrence is a slightly-undersized stretch 4 who can be a really dangerous shooter at times. He's also a decent passer, but limited as a ballhandler. Lawrence collects a decent percentage of defensive rebounds but is very limited in terms of offensive rebounding. The Canes don't really have another forward on the active roster. The only other guy with any size they had was Deng Gak (6'10", 210lb redshirt freshman from Australia). Gak was a highly-recruited player who redshirted last year. But he's out for the season after an early-season knee injury.

Wings: Dejan Vasilevic (6'3", 185lb junior from Australia) is the starter on the wing. Vasiljevic is a fire hydrant of a SG who can really stroke it from 3. That's more or less all he does. If he gets to the line (which is rare), he makes them at a 93% rate. Vasiljevic is physically strong but not quick and not a ballhandler or passer. He won't be able to contest Reddish's shot, but he could get Reddish to commit turnovers with physical play. The important thing is to not lose track of him on defense, because he is capable of shooting the lights out. The other key contributor on the wing is Zach Johnson (6'2", 190lb grad transfer from Florida Gulf Coast). Johnson is well built, and much more athletic than Vasiljevic. He was a star at FGCU last year, and is capable of hitting 3s and can be effective as a driver. He's sort of like an undersized RJ Barrett in that he's more of a scorer than a shooter. He's quicker than Barrett, but clearly not as good as Barrett. Just stylistically there are some similarities. Johnson also serves as their backup PG, though he's not a natural facilitator. The only other wing on the team is Anthony Mack (6'6", 215lb freshman). Mack came to Miami with a reputation as a good shooter but limited athlete. He's struggled in limited time to even provide the good shooting. Still, he's capable if left open. But he'll be physically overmatched if he is forced to guard Barrett at any point, let alone if Zion plays. Mack will play sparingly subbing in for Lawrence or one of the wings only as needed.

Guards: The 'Canes have only one guy at guard in Chris Lykes (5'7", 160lb sophomore). Lykes is electric. He is super quick and fearless with the ball in his hands. He also has some Barrett-like characteristics in that he's not a great 3pt shooter but is more than capable of getting hot from deep at any time. Staying in front of Lykes is a challenge, as he just constantly is moving and attacking, and is very clever in creating space for himself. He's also stronger than he looks. He might be even shorter than 5'7", though, and as such can be a defensive liability. He doesn't rebound at all, and doesn't force a ton of turnovers despite his quickness. Consistency is always a challenge for him, but he's capable of taking over a game and carrying the 'Canes. The one limitation is that he can get tunnel vision and isn't a natural distributor. But containing Lykes is probably the key to the game. If we can keep him from getting that irrational confidence going, the 'Canes are just really limited offensively elsewhere.

As you can see, Miami has basically no depth, and very few guys who are matchup problems. They are undersized across the board, and only have a few guys who are athletic concerns. Johnson and Lykes are the engines, with Lawrence, Vasiljevic, and Waardenburg providing some floor spacing, and Izundu capable of finishing at the rim. This is a much better matchup for us everywhere but at PG, where I think Lykes could be a tough assignment for Jones. But it's at home, and the talent disparity is huge. So let's hope this is a comfortable win.

[UrinalCake]

I'm not taking anybody for granted. GT was supposed to be a blowout. BC was supposed to be a blowout. Army was supposed to be a massacre. All of those teams were competitive deep into the second half. The team has concluded a brutal stretch and it will be natural for them to let up. Even if they don't, we've shot poorly at home all season. And if Zion doesn't play, that gives me even more cause for concern.

In an ideal world Zion returns and dominates, we get to pull the starters in the second half while our bench guys get some burn, White sinks a garbage time three to break the streak, and Baker makes some positive contributions. But Miami isn't going to just roll over and die for us; it is more likely that this game stays competitive longer than any of us would like.

[CDu]

I'm not taking anybody for granted. GT was supposed to be a blowout. BC was supposed to be a blowout. Army was supposed to be a massacre. All of those teams were competitive deep into the second half. The team has concluded a brutal stretch and it will be natural for them to let up. Even if they don't, we've shot poorly at home all season. And if Zion doesn't play, that gives me even more cause for concern.

In an ideal world Zion returns and dominates, we get to pull the starters in the second half while our bench guys get some burn, White sinks a garbage time three to break the streak, and Baker makes some positive contributions. But Miami isn't going to just roll over and die for us; it is more likely that this game stays competitive longer than any of us would like.

Obviously. The counter to that is that Duke had no business beating UVa without Jones, and probably shouldn't have won by 10 at UVa. Almost any team can be beaten, especially if they aren't at full strength like we are. That doesn't change that this "should" be a win. Could it be a loss? Sure. Will it likely be competitive for at least some stretch of the game? Very possibly. Is it a game that we "should" win and win comfortably? Yes.

Also, worth noting that your examples here aren't great. We beat Ga Tech by 13. We beat BC by 25. Neither of those are wildly off the expected margin of victory.

[proelitedota]

This game will be competitive. Mark my words.

[CDu]

This game will be competitive. Mark my words.

Again, sure. Any ACC game can be competitive. We're "only" expected to win by 20, and that's based on a heavy majority of games played with Zion. If Zion is out, I'd expect the true "expected" margin to be more like 12 or so. That leaves lots of room for it to be a competitive game. Especially depending on what one's definition of "competitive" is.

If Zion DOES play, I'd expect this to be a blowout. Perhaps not a "from the opening tip" blowout as teams aren't metronomes (hence my comment about what one's definition of "competitive" is). But if Zion plays regular minutes, I'd expect this to be a 20+ point victory.

[Natty_B]

I think we'll see an uncomfortably close game. It's a bad time to be seeing the defense trend the way it is. Zion or no Zion, it could be awhile until this team gets back its late December/ early January mojo (pre Tyus Jones injury). I'm hoping this occurs by ACCT or NCAA time. But I don't expect it to happen this weekend or next week with Wake.

Just as much as I'd like to see the return of Zion, I'd like to see the return of Tre Jones as well.

I recall Phil Jackson once saying don't get too high on the highs or too low on the lows. Probably applicable here. Miami is 70 in Kenpom well below St. John's and N.C. State.

[AZLA]

Obviously. The counter to that is that Duke had no business beating UVa without Jones, and probably shouldn't have won by 10 at UVa. Almost any team can be beaten, especially if they aren't at full strength like we are. That doesn't change that this "should" be a win. Could it be a loss? Sure. Will it likely be competitive for at least some stretch of the game? Very possibly. Is it a game that we "should" win and win comfortably? Yes.

Also, worth noting that your examples here aren't great. We beat Ga Tech by 13. We beat BC by 25. Neither of those are wildly off the expected margin of victory.

Well "should" and "comfortably" do not give much comfort considering Miami had the win against UNC at the Smith Center, if not for a late 3 to throw it into overtime. Agreed Duke should win, but, it's uncanny how Miami seems to relish playing in Cameron, not fear it.

[gofurman]

Zion or no Zion, this will be a blow-out.

As a UM alum, I've suffered through most of their games this season. This is Larranaga's worst team since he took over, and they will absolutely not compete with Duke. Their game against Carolina was only close because Chris Lykes, a 5-foot-2 87 pound point-guard, turned momentarily into Steph Curry.

They're 0-8 on the road. Their best win of the season, by a long-shot, is by 1-point at home over Clemson. They're bad on offense (67th) and worse on defense (96th). If this isn't a 20-point game by halftime, we've got big problems.

I saw Miami beat Clemson. That’s a decent win. And a Lykes you always have a shot - he can play

[Mak P]

IN before Tre 40 mins

[gofurman]

I saw Miami beat Clemson. That’s a decent win. And a Lykes you always have a shot - he can play

Miami Shoulda beat UNC. If we are without Zion anything is possible - never say we should be up 20 at half

[Saratoga2]

After a tough loss against a good Va Tech team, the Devils look to bounce back against the 'Canes of Miami. To be kind, this is not Jim Larranaga's best team. They've lost a lot of players to early entry in the NBA, and he hasn't been able to restock with as much talent recently. No doubt the Adidas scandal hasn't helped, nor have injuries helped. But the result has been a pretty down year for Miami. They are 4-11 in conference, with their best results being a 1-point win at home over bubblicious Clemson and a near-victory-but-ultimately-overtime-loss against UNC in Chapel Hill.

The 'Canes are a mediocre-to-decent offensive team and a mediocre defensive team. On offense, they protect the ball well and hit the rare free throws they get, are an awful rebounding team and don't draw fouls, and are pretty mediocre to bad at everything else. They will take a lot of 3s, which along with the low turnover rate keeps their offense in the "okay" range. Defensively, the only thing they do well is avoid committing fouls. They are, in fact, spectacular at keeping opponents off the free throw line. But they rebound poorly, don't force turnovers, and don't block shots. And they don't prevent baskets terribly well.

It's not a deep squad, which doesn't help.

Centers: Ebuka Izundu (6'10", 230lb senior) is the man in the middle for Miami. He's an athletic and long player who isn't the most built of players, though he's worked hard to address that over his time. He's a very capable rebounder at both ends, a decent shotblocker, and a terrific finisher inside. He's improved as a free throw shooter, though he doesn't get there too often. He's perhaps the only guy who gets in foul trouble for the 'Canes, but that's a problem as hey don't really have another strong option behind him. Izundu is a big step down in skill from Blackshear, which will be a nice change of pace. Sam Waardenburg (6'10", 215lb sophomore from New Zealand) has been thrust into a more prominent role than expected or desired due to injuries (more on that later) and the ineligibility of Dewan Hernandez. Waardenburg is a good 3pt shooter, kind of a very poor man's Ryan Kelly. He doesn't rebound a ton and he doesn't have much strength. But he can space the floor. He plays essentially starter's minutes and often shares the floor with Izundu.

Forwards: Anthony Lawrence II (6'7" 210lb senior) is the only healthy forward. Lawrence is a slightly-undersized stretch 4 who can be a really dangerous shooter at times. He's also a decent passer, but limited as a ballhandler. Lawrence collects a decent percentage of defensive rebounds but is very limited in terms of offensive rebounding. The Canes don't really have another forward on the active roster. The only other guy with any size they had was Deng Gak (6'10", 210lb redshirt freshman from Australia). Gak was a highly-recruited player who redshirted last year. But he's out for the season after an early-season knee injury.

Wings: Dejan Vasilevic (6'3", 185lb junior from Australia) is the starter on the wing. Vasiljevic is a fire hydrant of a SG who can really stroke it from 3. That's more or less all he does. If he gets to the line (which is rare), he makes them at a 93% rate. Vasiljevic is physically strong but not quick and not a ballhandler or passer. He won't be able to contest Reddish's shot, but he could get Reddish to commit turnovers with physical play. The important thing is to not lose track of him on defense, because he is capable of shooting the lights out. The other key contributor on the wing is Zach Johnson (6'2", 190lb grad transfer from Florida Gulf Coast). Johnson is well built, and much more athletic than Vasiljevic. He was a star at FGCU last year, and is capable of hitting 3s and can be effective as a driver. He's sort of like an undersized RJ Barrett in that he's more of a scorer than a shooter. He's quicker than Barrett, but clearly not as good as Barrett. Just stylistically there are some similarities. Johnson also serves as their backup PG, though he's not a natural facilitator. The only other wing on the team is Anthony Mack (6'6", 215lb freshman). Mack came to Miami with a reputation as a good shooter but limited athlete. He's struggled in limited time to even provide the good shooting. Still, he's capable if left open. But he'll be physically overmatched if he is forced to guard Barrett at any point, let alone if Zion plays. Mack will play sparingly subbing in for Lawrence or one of the wings only as needed.

Guards: The 'Canes have only one guy at guard in Chris Lykes (5'7", 160lb sophomore). Lykes is electric. He is super quick and fearless with the ball in his hands. He also has some Barrett-like characteristics in that he's not a great 3pt shooter but is more than capable of getting hot from deep at any time. Staying in front of Lykes is a challenge, as he just constantly is moving and attacking, and is very clever in creating space for himself. He's also stronger than he looks. He might be even shorter than 5'7", though, and as such can be a defensive liability. He doesn't rebound at all, and doesn't force a ton of turnovers despite his quickness. Consistency is always a challenge for him, but he's capable of taking over a game and carrying the 'Canes. The one limitation is that he can get tunnel vision and isn't a natural distributor. But containing Lykes is probably the key to the game. If we can keep him from getting that irrational confidence going, the 'Canes are just really limited offensively elsewhere.

As you can see, Miami has basically no depth, and very few guys who are matchup problems. They are undersized across the board, and only have a few guys who are athletic concerns. Johnson and Lykes are the engines, with Lawrence, Vasiljevic, and Waardenburg providing some floor spacing, and Izundu capable of finishing at the rim. This is a much better matchup for us everywhere but at PG, where I think Lykes could be a tough assignment for Jones. But it's at home, and the talent disparity is huge. So let's hope this is a comfortable win.

Thanks for the analysis. I wonder what one covering Duke would look like, but then, we all have put in our 2 cents worth on that.

[Pghdukie]

I believe this game is scheduled for a 4 P.M. tipoff.

It is being televised by CBS. Hopefully we dont get Clark Kellogg as the color man. He is an absolute Duke hater. IMO !

[uh_no]

It is being televised by CBS. Hopefully we dont get Clark Kellogg as the color man. He is an absolute Duke hater. IMO !

He is also the most moronic of all the commentators. The ESPN guys may have their schtick, but generally they are at least OFTEN knowledgeable, if even they are terrible at conveying it and sometimes wildly off.

Kelloggs best analysis is coming up with a list of the most clicheed one liners he can and rules about when to say them, then just repeating them when the time is right. The average quality of his contribution is (and he actually said this):

(with UL down against UK in the final four):

They're going to have to outscore Kentucky the rest of the way to win this

Really Clark? Ya think? It's like he took the crap he had to record for the NBA 2Kxx games and thought that was how you actually did commentary. He's like Madden, but without any actual knowledge of the game. Mercifully, CBS realized he provides no actual analysis and relegated him to the studio during march madness a few years ago.

[jv001]

He is also the most moronic of all the commentators. The ESPN guys may have their schtick, but generally they are at least OFTEN knowledgeable, if even they are terrible at conveying it and sometimes wildly off.

Kelloggs best analysis is coming up with a list of the most clicheed one liners he can and rules about when to say them, then just repeating them when the time is right. The average quality of his contribution is (and he actually said this):

(with UL down against UK in the final four):


Really Clark? Ya think? It's like he took the crap he had to record for the NBA 2Kxx games and thought that was how you actually did commentary. He's like Madden, but without any actual knowledge of the game. Mercifully, CBS realized he provides no actual analysis and relegated him to the studio during march madness a few years ago.

Clark likes to hear himself talk and at times I don't thing he even knows what he's talking about. Tries to come off as a genius but ends up sounding like an idiot. GoDuke!

[CDu]

Thanks for the analysis. I wonder what one covering Duke would look like, but then, we all have put in our 2 cents worth on that.

I can do one if you’d like ;).

It would be something like this:

This Duke team is a story of two teams: one with the most dominant player in Duke history and one without. If Zion plays, they are a juggernaut, and probably better than anyone else in college. They haven’t lost a game at full strength since November, and that was back when they were still figuring out who they were with four freshmen and three former reserve role players thrust into major roles. They beat the most efficient team in the country without a PG. They beat that same team by 10 on the road. If Zion plays, they are a beast.

If Zion sits, they appear to still be effective offensively, although at times it seems like smoke and mirrors. The difference is largely seen on the glass, on defense, and in transition. They get a lot more one-dimensional without Zion. Still good, but way more mortal.

Centers: The Devils role with a two-headed monster here. Marques Bolden (6’11”, 250lb junior) and Javin DeLaurier (6’10”, 235lb junior) split the duties and have even split the starts. Bolden is a big dude with really long arms. He has a decent post game and is a terrific shot blocker. He is only an okay rebounder, and isn’t the most fluid of athletes. Defensively, he is a willing hedger but can get caught on unadvised switches. He is a good defender against other standard post guys, but struggles with more mobile, hybrid bigs. DeLaurier is a high-energy big with virtually zero polish to his game. He is springy and rangy, and does well on the glass, blocking shots, and getting steals. But he has no offensive game and shaky hands, which limits him. He also has trouble with body control, resulting in a very high foul rate. Together, the duo averages 9.2 ppg, 8.4 rpg, 3.0 bpg, and 1.5 spg in 34.6 mpg, and they generally match up okay with all but the more versatile of bigs.

Forwards: The headliner is Zion Williamson (6’7”, 280lb freshman). Zion is a freak. He is as quick and agile as a guard, as strong as anyone, and can jump out of the gym. On top of that, he has an amazing skill level, with preternatural finishing ability in traffic, terrific ball handling skills, and soft hands. He also plays with a high motor on both ends, and is an elite offensive AND defensive player. He can score in the half-court both as a primary option or finishing passes from others. And he is a nightmare in transition. He probably saves kittens too. He is the best player in college b-ball, by a comfy margin. Unfortunately for Duke, he is recovering from a knee-sprain, and Miami should pray he sits again. If he sits, Jack White (6’7”, 220lb junior from Australia) will likely play major minutes off the bench. White is a consummate role player and overachiever. He is reasonably athletic, but really limited offensively. REALLY limited. But he does all the little things, with good court awareness, competitiveness and effort. Earlier this year, he was a solid 3pt threat of unattended. But he has fallen ice-cold the last month or two, missing almost 30 in a row. If you are anywhere near him defensively away from 5 feet, he can’t score. And at the moment he may be suffering a crisis of confidence.

Wings: R.J. Barrett (6’7”, 205lb freshman from Canada) is the other leading man. Barrett had a shaky beginning to his college career. He would torch bad teams but be really inefficient against decent to good teams. The most glaring example was his Gonzaga game, but this trend carried into the early ACC season. Since then, though, he has put together several gems. Barrett is an elite rebounder for a wing, and a crafty scorer in traffic. He doesn’t dribble well and isn’t a strong shooter, but he generally finds ways to score mainly from determination and craftiness. And while he isn’t a great shooter, he is certainly capable of getting hot from deep. He is still figuring out shot selection, but he is on the short-list of best players in college. Forcing him into jump shots and hoping he misses is the play here. And making him use his right hand on the dribble. Don’t let him play downhill. It isn’t easy at the college level, but teams have done it somewhat often. Even if you make him inefficient, he is usually productive as a rebounder and sometimes as a passer. It just depends on the night. And when his shot is falling, you are in trouble. Barrett will play as close to 40 minutes as possible. Alongside Barrett is Cam Reddish (6’8”, 205lb freshman). Reddish was very hyped coming out of high school, but has struggled to match the hype. He certainly looks the part physically, with elite measurables. But he is very loose with the ball and doesn’t always pay enough attention to the little details on offense: squaring up on his shot, avoiding defenders on his drives, protecting the ball in traffic, finishing. Like Barrett, he effectively is more of a high-volume scorer than a shooter. He can shoot over most covers with his height and jumper, but it just comes and goes. The one thing that has been consistent for him though is defense. He is a very willing and able defender on the perimeter. That is the underrated part of this team. Three of the four star freshmen are elite defenders, and the fourth is adequate. And like Barrett, when Reddish’s shot is falling there isn’t much you can do. The goal is to force him to dribble, where he is a bit of a liability at times. He is a really talented player, but his offense is mercurial. After the two star freshmen, the Devils will occasionally turn to a pair of shooters. Alex O’Connell (6’6”, 180lb sophomore) has had a few bright moments. He is an elite 3pt shooter and surprisingly springy. But he is super skinny and as such isn’t able to do much with that athleticism. O’Connell is a liability on defense, lacking good court awareness. But as a catch-and-shoot threat, he is really good. The last wing is also the newest. Coach K made waves recently, burning the redshirt of Joey Baker (6’7”, 200lb freshman). Baker reclassified in the Spring, and the plan was to redshirt this year. But after the UNC game, Coach K decided to go all hands on deck. Since, Baker has played just 6 minutes in two games, and has looked like a bigger but less athletic version of O’Connell at this point. The sample size is small, though, so it remains to be seen what he will contribute.

Guards: Tre Jones (6’2”, 180lb freshman) is the primary option at guard. Jones made hay early in the season for his elite defense, clever passing in transition, and excellent decisionmaking. He was at one point averaging 5 assists per turnover while playing lockdown defense. Well, the defense has stuck but the offense has cratered a bit in the absence of Zion. He can’t shoot from the perimeter, and isn’t the most creative at attacking off the dribble. In the open floor in transition he is a terrific passer. But in the half-court, he is largely a game manager. He generally moves off-ball in the halfcourt with one of the other three freshmen doing the heavy lifting on playmaking. He focuses on defense where he is spectacular in a Matt Jones-ish way. And if he gets in transition he makes great passes. But if you can make him shoot, that is a win on the possession. The only other guy who plays is Jordan Goldwire (6’2”, 180lb soph). Goldwire was a lightly recruited player and a surprise late addition to the Devils. Presumably he was added as a continuity piece and practice player. He is very quick and energetic, and capable of being a disruptive defender against less confident ball handling teams. He typically only comes in as a zone press partner with Jones. Offensively... he is a scrappy defender. Goldwire only plays in extreme-ish circumstances. If things are close, the Devils only play 7 guys.

If Zion plays, the Devils are a nightmare. He and Barrett make the best 1-2 punch we have seen in years. Either could be a NPoY. And Reddish as a third option is kind of unfair. Add in the perfect complement of a role player PG and the veteran frontcourt rotation, it is a juggernaut. The only concern is health, defensive rebounding, and shooting, but they are literally elite at everything else.

If Zion sits, they can be had. Barrett is the only consistent playmaker, and Reddish is shaky as a #2 option. And basically everyone else is one-dimensionsl. They can generally make it work offensively, but the defense is far from elite without Zion. And the defense is largely what makes this team scary, as it leads to fast breaks where they have the two best fast breakers in the country. Without Zion, they are a mortal team. A very good team, but not superlative.

If you are Miami, pray Zion sits.

[Saratoga2]

I can do one if you’d like ;).

It would be something like this:

This Duke team is a story of two teams: one with the most dominant player in Duke history and one without. If Zion plays, they are a juggernaut, and probably better than anyone else in college. They haven’t lost a game at full strength since November, and that was back when they were still figuring out who they were with four freshmen and three former reserve role players thrust into major roles. They beat the most efficient team in the country without a PG. They beat that same team by 10 on the road. If Zion plays, they are a beast.

If Zion sits, they appear to still be effective offensively, although at times it seems like smoke and mirrors. The difference is largely seen on the glass, on defense, and in transition. They get a lot more one-dimensional without Zion. Still good, but way more mortal.

Centers: The Devils role with a two-headed monster here. Marques Bolden (6’11”, 250lb junior) and Javin DeLaurier (6’10”, 235lb junior) split the duties and have even split the starts. Bolden is a big dude with really long arms. He has a decent post game and is a terrific shot blocker. He is only an okay rebounder, and isn’t the most fluid of athletes. Defensively, he is a willing hedger but can get caught on unadvised switches. He is a good defender against other standard post guys, but struggles with more mobile, hybrid bigs. DeLaurier is a high-energy big with virtually zero polish to his game. He is springy and rangy, and does well on the glass, blocking shots, and getting steals. But he has no offensive game and shaky hands, which limits him. He also has trouble with body control, resulting in a very high foul rate. Together, the duo averages 9.2 ppg, 8.4 rpg, 3.0 bpg, and 1.5 spg in 34.6 mpg, and they generally match up okay with all but the more versatile of bigs.

Forwards: The headliner is Zion Williamson (6’7”, 280lb freshman). Zion is a freak. He is as quick and agile as a guard, as strong as anyone, and can jump out of the gym. On top of that, he has an amazing skill level, with preternatural finishing ability in traffic, terrific ball handling skills, and soft hands. He also plays with a high motor on both ends, and is an elite offensive AND defensive player. He can score in the half-court both as a primary option or finishing passes from others. And he is a nightmare in transition. He probably saves kittens too. He is the best player in college b-ball, by a comfy margin. Unfortunately for Duke, he is recovering from a knee-sprain, and Miami should pray he sits again. If he sits, Jack White (6’7”, 220lb junior from Australia) will likely play major minutes off the bench. White is a consummate role player and overachiever. He is reasonably athletic, but really limited offensively. REALLY limited. But he does all the little things, with good court awareness, competitiveness and effort. Earlier this year, he was a solid 3pt threat of unattended. But he has fallen ice-cold the last month or two, missing almost 30 in a row. If you are anywhere near him defensively away from 5 feet, he can’t score. And at the moment he may be suffering a crisis of confidence.

Wings: R.J. Barrett (6’7”, 205lb freshman from Canada) is the other leading man. Barrett had a shaky beginning to his college career. He would torch bad teams but be really inefficient against decent to good teams. The most glaring example was his Gonzaga game, but this trend carried into the early ACC season. Since then, though, he has put together several gems. Barrett is an elite rebounder for a wing, and a crafty scorer in traffic. He doesn’t dribble well and isn’t a strong shooter, but he generally finds ways to score mainly from determination and craftiness. And while he isn’t a great shooter, he is certainly capable of getting hot from deep. He is still figuring out shot selection, but he is on the short-list of best players in college. Forcing him into jump shots and hoping he misses is the play here. And making him use his right hand on the dribble. Don’t let him play downhill. It isn’t easy at the college level, but teams have done it somewhat often. Even if you make him inefficient, he is usually productive as a rebounder and sometimes as a passer. It just depends on the night. And when his shot is falling, you are in trouble. Barrett will play as close to 40 minutes as possible. Alongside Barrett is Cam Reddish (6’8”, 205lb freshman). Reddish was very hyped coming out of high school, but has struggled to match the hype. He certainly looks the part physically, with elite measurables. But he is very loose with the ball and doesn’t always pay enough attention to the little details on offense: squaring up on his shot, avoiding defenders on his drives, protecting the ball in traffic, finishing. Like Barrett, he effectively is more of a high-volume scorer than a shooter. He can shoot over most covers with his height and jumper, but it just comes and goes. The one thing that has been consistent for him though is defense. He is a very willing and able defender on the perimeter. That is the underrated part of this team. Three of the four star freshmen are elite defenders, and the fourth is adequate. And like Barrett, when Reddish’s shot is falling there isn’t much you can do. The goal is to force him to dribble, where he is a bit of a liability at times. He is a really talented player, but his offense is mercurial. After the two star freshmen, the Devils will occasionally turn to a pair of shooters. Alex O’Connell (6’6”, 180lb sophomore) has had a few bright moments. He is an elite 3pt shooter and surprisingly springy. But he is super skinny and as such isn’t able to do much with that athleticism. O’Connell is a liability on defense, lacking good court awareness. But as a catch-and-shoot threat, he is really good. The last wing is also the newest. Coach K made waves recently, burning the redshirt of Joey Baker (6’7”, 200lb freshman). Baker reclassified in the Spring, and the plan was to redshirt this year. But after the UNC game, Coach K decided to go all hands on deck. Since, Baker has played just 6 minutes in two games, and has looked like a bigger but less athletic version of O’Connell at this point. The sample size is small, though, so it remains to be seen what he will contribute.

Guards: Tre Jones (6’2”, 180lb freshman) is the primary option at guard. Jones made hay early in the season for his elite defense, clever passing in transition, and excellent decisionmaking. He was at one point averaging 5 assists per turnover while playing lockdown defense. Well, the defense has stuck but the offense has cratered a bit in the absence of Zion. He can’t shoot from the perimeter, and isn’t the most creative at attacking off the dribble. In the open floor in transition he is a terrific passer. But in the half-court, he is largely a game manager. He generally moves off-ball in the halfcourt with one of the other three freshmen doing the heavy lifting on playmaking. He focuses on defense where he is spectacular in a Matt Jones-ish way. And if he gets in transition he makes great passes. But if you can make him shoot, that is a win on the possession. The only other guy who plays is Jordan Goldwire (6’2”, 180lb soph). Goldwire was a lightly recruited player and a surprise late addition to the Devils. Presumably he was added as a continuity piece and practice player. He is very quick and energetic, and capable of being a disruptive defender against less confident ball handling teams. He typically only comes in as a zone press partner with Jones. Offensively... he is a scrappy defender. Goldwire only plays in extreme-ish circumstances. If things are close, the Devils only play 7 guys.

If Zion plays, the Devils are a nightmare. He and Barrett make the best 1-2 punch we have seen in years. Either could be a NPoY. And Reddish as a third option is kind of unfair. Add in the perfect complement of a role player PG and the veteran frontcourt rotation, it is a juggernaut. The only concern is health, defensive rebounding, and shooting, but they are literally elite at everything else.

If Zion sits, they can be had. Barrett is the only consistent playmaker, and Reddish is shaky as a #2 option. And basically everyone else is one-dimensionsl. They can generally make it work offensively, but the defense is far from elite without Zion. And the defense is largely what makes this team scary, as it leads to fast breaks where they have the two best fast breakers in the country. Without Zion, they are a mortal team. A very good team, but not superlative.

If you are Miami, pray Zion sits.

Thanks for your effort. Most will agree fully with your analysis.

With Zion, our most effective team seems to be RJ, Zion, Bolden, Tre and Cam with Jack and Javin first off the bench for wing and center. AOC is off the bench when scoring is needed. Jordan for extra defensive pressure or to rest Tre. Joey comes in primarily to gain experience at this point. Without Zion the offense seems to be limited to RJ and Marques, with Cam's play a net positive but his turnovers a concern. AOC is the ace in the hole when in trouble with scoring.

[heyman25]

I can do one if you’d like ;).

It would be something like this:

This Duke team is a story of two teams: one with the most dominant player in Duke history and one without. If Zion plays, they are a juggernaut, and probably better than anyone else in college. They haven’t lost a game at full strength since November, and that was back when they were still figuring out who they were with four freshmen and three former reserve role players thrust into major roles. They beat the most efficient team in the country without a PG. They beat that same team by 10 on the road. If Zion plays, they are a beast.

If Zion sits, they appear to still be effective offensively, although at times it seems like smoke and mirrors. The difference is largely seen on the glass, on defense, and in transition. They get a lot more one-dimensional without Zion. Still good, but way more mortal.

Centers: The Devils role with a two-headed monster here. Marques Bolden (6’11”, 250lb junior) and Javin DeLaurier (6’10”, 235lb junior) split the duties and have even split the starts. Bolden is a big dude with really long arms. He has a decent post game and is a terrific shot blocker. He is only an okay rebounder, and isn’t the most fluid of athletes. Defensively, he is a willing hedger but can get caught on unadvised switches. He is a good defender against other standard post guys, but struggles with more mobile, hybrid bigs. DeLaurier is a high-energy big with virtually zero polish to his game. He is springy and rangy, and does well on the glass, blocking shots, and getting steals. But he has no offensive game and shaky hands, which limits him. He also has trouble with body control, resulting in a very high foul rate. Together, the duo averages 9.2 ppg, 8.4 rpg, 3.0 bpg, and 1.5 spg in 34.6 mpg, and they generally match up okay with all but the more versatile of bigs.

Forwards: The headliner is Zion Williamson (6’7”, 280lb freshman). Zion is a freak. He is as quick and agile as a guard, as strong as anyone, and can jump out of the gym. On top of that, he has an amazing skill level, with preternatural finishing ability in traffic, terrific ball handling skills, and soft hands. He also plays with a high motor on both ends, and is an elite offensive AND defensive player. He can score in the half-court both as a primary option or finishing passes from others. And he is a nightmare in transition. He probably saves kittens too. He is the best player in college b-ball, by a comfy margin. Unfortunately for Duke, he is recovering from a knee-sprain, and Miami should pray he sits again. If he sits, Jack White (6’7”, 220lb junior from Australia) will likely play major minutes off the bench. White is a consummate role player and overachiever. He is reasonably athletic, but really limited offensively. REALLY limited. But he does all the little things, with good court awareness, competitiveness and effort. Earlier this year, he was a solid 3pt threat of unattended. But he has fallen ice-cold the last month or two, missing almost 30 in a row. If you are anywhere near him defensively away from 5 feet, he can’t score. And at the moment he may be suffering a crisis of confidence.

Wings: R.J. Barrett (6’7”, 205lb freshman from Canada) is the other leading man. Barrett had a shaky beginning to his college career. He would torch bad teams but be really inefficient against decent to good teams. The most glaring example was his Gonzaga game, but this trend carried into the early ACC season. Since then, though, he has put together several gems. Barrett is an elite rebounder for a wing, and a crafty scorer in traffic. He doesn’t dribble well and isn’t a strong shooter, but he generally finds ways to score mainly from determination and craftiness. And while he isn’t a great shooter, he is certainly capable of getting hot from deep. He is still figuring out shot selection, but he is on the short-list of best players in college. Forcing him into jump shots and hoping he misses is the play here. And making him use his right hand on the dribble. Don’t let him play downhill. It isn’t easy at the college level, but teams have done it somewhat often. Even if you make him inefficient, he is usually productive as a rebounder and sometimes as a passer. It just depends on the night. And when his shot is falling, you are in trouble. Barrett will play as close to 40 minutes as possible. Alongside Barrett is Cam Reddish (6’8”, 205lb freshman). Reddish was very hyped coming out of high school, but has struggled to match the hype. He certainly looks the part physically, with elite measurables. But he is very loose with the ball and doesn’t always pay enough attention to the little details on offense: squaring up on his shot, avoiding defenders on his drives, protecting the ball in traffic, finishing. Like Barrett, he effectively is more of a high-volume scorer than a shooter. He can shoot over most covers with his height and jumper, but it just comes and goes. The one thing that has been consistent for him though is defense. He is a very willing and able defender on the perimeter. That is the underrated part of this team. Three of the four star freshmen are elite defenders, and the fourth is adequate. And like Barrett, when Reddish’s shot is falling there isn’t much you can do. The goal is to force him to dribble, where he is a bit of a liability at times. He is a really talented player, but his offense is mercurial. After the two star freshmen, the Devils will occasionally turn to a pair of shooters. Alex O’Connell (6’6”, 180lb sophomore) has had a few bright moments. He is an elite 3pt shooter and surprisingly springy. But he is super skinny and as such isn’t able to do much with that athleticism. O’Connell is a liability on defense, lacking good court awareness. But as a catch-and-shoot threat, he is really good. The last wing is also the newest. Coach K made waves recently, burning the redshirt of Joey Baker (6’7”, 200lb freshman). Baker reclassified in the Spring, and the plan was to redshirt this year. But after the UNC game, Coach K decided to go all hands on deck. Since, Baker has played just 6 minutes in two games, and has looked like a bigger but less athletic version of O’Connell at this point. The sample size is small, though, so it remains to be seen what he will contribute.

Guards: Tre Jones (6’2”, 180lb freshman) is the primary option at guard. Jones made hay early in the season for his elite defense, clever passing in transition, and excellent decisionmaking. He was at one point averaging 5 assists per turnover while playing lockdown defense. Well, the defense has stuck but the offense has cratered a bit in the absence of Zion. He can’t shoot from the perimeter, and isn’t the most creative at attacking off the dribble. In the open floor in transition he is a terrific passer. But in the half-court, he is largely a game manager. He generally moves off-ball in the halfcourt with one of the other three freshmen doing the heavy lifting on playmaking. He focuses on defense where he is spectacular in a Matt Jones-ish way. And if he gets in transition he makes great passes. But if you can make him shoot, that is a win on the possession. The only other guy who plays is Jordan Goldwire (6’2”, 180lb soph). Goldwire was a lightly recruited player and a surprise late addition to the Devils. Presumably he was added as a continuity piece and practice player. He is very quick and energetic, and capable of being a disruptive defender against less confident ball handling teams. He typically only comes in as a zone press partner with Jones. Offensively... he is a scrappy defender. Goldwire only plays in extreme-ish circumstances. If things are close, the Devils only play 7 guys.

If Zion plays, the Devils are a nightmare. He and Barrett make the best 1-2 punch we have seen in years. Either could be a NPoY. And Reddish as a third option is kind of unfair. Add in the perfect complement of a role player PG and the veteran frontcourt rotation, it is a juggernaut. The only concern is health, defensive rebounding, and shooting, but they are literally elite at everything else.

If Zion sits, they can be had. Barrett is the only consistent playmaker, and Reddish is shaky as a #2 option. And basically everyone else is one-dimensionsl. They can generally make it work offensively, but the defense is far from elite without Zion. And the defense is largely what makes this team scary, as it leads to fast breaks where they have the two best fast breakers in the country. Without Zion, they are a mortal team. A very good team, but not superlative.

If you are Miami, pray Zion sits.
From ESPN this confirms your spot on analysis.
http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/25379665/duke-loss-means-there-new-no-1

Best line from story
"The Blue Devils simply haven't looked good without Williamson. RJ Barrett has been the sole source of consistent offense, and teams have begun to collapse on him and force him to give the ball to someone else. There will be stretches like we saw in the second half when he still gets his points, but he's going to need more consistent help from Cam Reddish and Tre Jones. He's just not getting it right now. Defensively, Duke had its second-worst performance of the season on Tuesday."

[mk76]

I'm not taking anybody for granted. GT was supposed to be a blowout. BC was supposed to be a blowout. Army was supposed to be a massacre. All of those teams were competitive deep into the second half. The team has concluded a brutal stretch and it will be natural for them to let up. Even if they don't, we've shot poorly at home all season. And if Zion doesn't play, that gives me even more cause for concern.

In an ideal world Zion returns and dominates, we get to pull the starters in the second half while our bench guys get some burn, White sinks a garbage time three to break the streak, and Baker makes some positive contributions. But Miami isn't going to just roll over and die for us; it is more likely that this game stays competitive longer than any of us would like.

I think you are correct. We need these next two games to be easy wins so our overworked starters can recharge prior to the Carolina game/ACC Tournament/NCAA Tournament. Unfortunately Coach Larranaga and Miami always seems to give K fits. So we'll see.

[jv001]

I think you are correct. We need these next two games to be easy wins so our overworked starters can recharge prior to the Carolina game/ACC Tournament/NCAA Tournament. Unfortunately Coach Larranaga and Miami always seems to give K fits. So we'll see.

Plus, Duke hasn't shot well in Cameron. I can't remember a Duke team that shot better on the road than at home. GoDuke!

[slower]

Clark likes to hear himself talk and at times I don't thing he even knows what he's talking about. Tries to come off as a genius but ends up sounding like an idiot. GoDuke!

And if you pair Kellogg with Jim Nantz (basically just a haircut), you have THE most moronic team there is.

[robed deity]

And if you pair Kellogg with Jim Nantz (basically just a haircut), you have THE most moronic team there is.

And to think about ten years ago, I viewed it as a huge step up when Kellogg took Billy Packer's place for the final four. Because no matter how bad a color guy is, it won't ever approach Billy Packer.

[Kedsy]

They're bad on offense (67th) and worse on defense (96th). If this isn't a 20-point game by halftime, we've got big problems.

Right now, Miami is #68 in KenPom, better than Notre Dame, Pitt, BC, Ga Tech, and Wake. While we were up at halftime by 18 and 19 vs. Notre Dame and Pitt, against the other three we were only up at halftime by 12, 2, and 8. And that was with Zion in all those games.

[Natty_B]

Right now, Miami is #68 in KenPom, better than Notre Dame, Pitt, BC, Ga Tech, and Wake. While we were up at halftime by 18 and 19 vs. Notre Dame and Pitt, against the other three we were only up at halftime by 12, 2, and 8. And that was with Zion in all those games.

I went through all of their losses and the only big halftime deficits Miami has had this year were 18 to FSU at home and 14 at Penn (??). So yeah wouldn't read too much into a halftime score. Miami had halftime leads in some games they lost like Louisville and NC State. When matching up KenPom I still think St. John's and NC State are good, and more recent, home comps (both way higher than Miami).

Being able to stick the great D of Tre Jones on Lykes is nice (and not an option recent Duke teams have had).

[robed deity]

I went through all of their losses and the only big halftime deficits Miami has had this year were 18 to FSU at home and 14 at Penn (??). So yeah wouldn't read too much into a halftime score. Miami had halftime leads in some games they lost like Louisville and NC State. When matching up KenPom I still think St. John's and NC State are good, and more recent, home comps (both way higher than Miami).

Being able to stick the great D of Tre Jones on Lykes is nice (and not an option recent Duke teams have had).

True, but I actually like Jones more on slightly bigger guys than little shifty guys like Lykes.

[budwom]

And if you pair Kellogg with Jim Nantz (basically just a haircut), you have THE most moronic team there is.

How true...Notecard Nantz! I'm sure he has a pile of those things so he can inform us (breathlessly) His father was a baker! His mom played college croquet! He once played on his high school tennis team! He adores licorice!

They should leave Nantz in Augusta and prop him up just once a year to announce over the fake bird noises.

[Pghdukie]

Interesting tidbit about Nantz. At the Final Four - CBS would hire a "runner" to get Nantz anything he wanted or needed while he was at courtside. That runner was none other than Fred Couples.

[sagegrouse]

Interesting tidbit about Nantz. At the Final Four - CBS would hire a "runner" to get Nantz anything he wanted or needed while he was at courtside. That runner was none other than Fred Couples.

I thought they were college roommates at what we Rice students called "Cougar High" -- U of Houston.

[duke79]

Interesting tidbit about Nantz. At the Final Four - CBS would hire a "runner" to get Nantz anything he wanted or needed while he was at courtside. That runner was none other than Fred Couples.

Before or after Fred won the Masters?

[J4Kop99]

I thought they were college roommates at what we Rice students called "Cougar High" -- U of Houston.

Not only were they roommates -- but Nantz played on the golf team as well.

I had never heard the story of Fred Couples being a glorified intern for Nantz, though.

-As for Nantz the announcer, I really don't see the issue with him. He does exactly what he is supposed to do. He's a little (very) dry at this point but I don't need to have Gus Johnson announcing a game to keep me interested. I think Nantz gets a lot of hate-by-association on here because of all the years he spent with the insufferable Billy Packer.

In my opinion, Al Michaels is the best multi-sport PBP announcer to ever do it although basketball certainly was not his strong suit.


-I have not done a search for this yet to see if it's been done but an overall best PBP announcer might be a fun bracket-style DBR poll. We would have to hash out the parameters first.

[sagegrouse]

I hesitate to ask, but is there any word on Zion for Saturday?

[CDu]

I hesitate to ask, but is there any word on Zion for Saturday?

Good question. Seems we had heard by about this time that he was out for the last two games. So perhaps no news means at least progress, and that he's at least getting closer to a gametime decision?

[Dukehky]

I hesitate to ask, but is there any word on Zion for Saturday?

He'll be back. Talked to Zion on our nightly calls last night. I give him the rundown of what people on DBR are saying usually, he let slip he will be back Saturday and could have played Tuesday.

[freshmanjs]

I hesitate to ask, but is there any word on Zion for Saturday?

I think he'll play Saturday. My guess - that's why Coach K was so chill after Tuesday night's game. Zion will want to play in front of the crazies if he possibly can. I really think it's Miami.

[HereBeforeCoachK]

I think he'll play Saturday. My guess - that's why Coach K was so chill after Tuesday night's game. Zion will want to play in front of the crazies if he possibly can. I really think it's Miami.

...from your keyboard to God's ears.......

[Devilwin]

I doubt he'll play this game. Maybe the next one, as he is going to need to shake off the rust, so to speak. I want him near 100% for the Cheats game. Maybe tear down a rim in the Smith Center..lol:cool:

[HereBeforeCoachK]

I want him near 100% for the Cheats game. Maybe tear down a rim in the Smith Center..lol:cool:

I had the same dream....Zion ripping the rim off in the Dean's Myth Center.

[Travis]

Guards: Tre Jones (6’2”, 180lb freshman) ...He can’t shoot from the perimeter...

Tre’s shooting has become a story lately. While he was never a prolific shooter, it did not seem like such a handicap early in the season. And his free throw shooting percentage seems okay. So I wonder if:
A.) this has always been an issue and teams are just figuring it out now so it is more visible; or
B.) there are lingering effects from his shoulder injury possibly combined with fatigue.

My recollection, not verified by reviewing the stats, was that he knocked down enough from the outside to keep teams a little bit honest, enabling him to occasionally find driving lanes. So I worry that his injury has had some lasting effects. If so, hope he heals up fully soon.

Travis

[CDu]

Tre’s shooting has become a story lately. While he was never a prolific shooter, it did not seem like such a handicap early in the season. And his free throw shooting percentage seems okay. So I wonder if:
A.) this has always been an issue and teams are just figuring it out now so it is more visible; or
B.) there are lingering effects from his shoulder injury possibly combined with fatigue.

My recollection, not verified by reviewing the stats, was that he knocked down enough from the outside to keep teams a little bit honest, enabling him to occasionally find driving lanes. So I worry that his injury has had some lasting effects. If so, hope he heals up fully soon.

Travis

Jones hit just 8 of 29 3s before the injury and has hit 8 of 37 since. That is a difference of just under two makes over a 10-game span. And that is due to a downswing the last 3 games. Prior to Zion’s injury, Jones had hit 5 of 20 after the injury. That is basically right on his pre-injury form. So I don’t think the injury is the cause of the bad shooting.

[jv001]

Jones hit just 8 of 29 3s before the injury and has hit 8 of 37 since. That is a difference of just under two makes over a 10-game span. And that is due to a downswing the last 3 games. Prior to Zion’s injury, Jones had hit 5 of 20 after the injury. That is basically right on his pre-injury form. So I don’t think the injury is the cause of the bad shooting.

In ACC play Tre is 8 of 41. That's 18%. He has not made more than 1 three pointer in those games. He's had 1-5, 0-4, 1-6(CHEATS), 1-7(Cuse #2) and 1-4(VT) games during this stretch. Of course he's had some 1-2 games thrown in. He's clearly not been a good 3 point shooter since ACC play began. GoDuke!

[HereBeforeCoachK]

Tre’s shooting has become a story lately. While he was never a prolific shooter, it did not seem like such a handicap early in the season. And his free throw shooting percentage seems okay. So I wonder if:
A.) this has always been an issue and teams are just figuring it out now so it is more visible; or
B.) there are lingering effects from his shoulder injury possibly combined with fatigue.

Travis

Maybe some kind of fatigue factor/freshman wall....along with the fact that Zion on the court made what Tre did even more effective, and vice versa...and there's always the shoulder thing maybe.....

[Sixthman]

Tre’s shooting has become a story lately. While he was never a prolific shooter, it did not seem like such a handicap early in the season. And his free throw shooting percentage seems okay. So I wonder if:
A.) this has always been an issue and teams are just figuring it out now so it is more visible; or
B.) there are lingering effects from his shoulder injury possibly combined with fatigue.

My recollection, not verified by reviewing the stats, was that he knocked down enough from the outside to keep teams a little bit honest, enabling him to occasionally find driving lanes. So I worry that his injury has had some lasting effects. If so, hope he heals up fully soon.

Travis

He seems tired to me. Playing 40 minutes a game — which he nearly does — through a tough conference season can be draining, even for elite athletes. I was day dreaming this week about finding a way to give Tre and R.J. each a one game rest before making the 11 mile trip to rip the hearts out of Hubrisville.

[dukeblue6661]

Is there a way to stream the replay of a CBS game?

[ChillinDuke]

Maybe some kind of fatigue factor/freshman wall...along with the fact that Zion on the court made what Tre did even more effective, and vice versa...and there's always the shoulder thing maybe...

Maybe. But more likely we crafted a story in our heads before letting the sample size grow.

Tre started 6-11 on 3s through such high-profile early season games as Kentucky, Auburn, and Gonzaga. At that point, this team had already begun to solidify the legend in our collective minds.

Since then, he's 10-54 (18.52%).

My personal opinion is we were holding onto false hopes. Myself included. Everyone wants to talk about Jack, because it's a crazy and unfortunate and irritating streak he's got going. But Tre's reversion is, again my opinion, much more debilitating to the wellbeing of this team.

- Chillin

[uh_no]

Is there a way to stream the replay of a CBS game?

usually you can find it on youtube....so long as you find it before CBS finds it.

[CDu]

Still no word on Zion that I've seen. I'm taking that to be a good sign. But we'll see.

ETA: eh, just read the rest of the "Vigil" thread. Maybe not such a good sign, at least for tomorrow.

[English]

I make it a practice never to read the Vigil threads, so I'm throwing caution to the wind and posting it here...

DBR's own Steve Wiseman has tweeted that Zion is doubtful to play. Other Duke twitter accounts have posted some very vague "Here comes Zion" type stuff. Steve seems like the more trustworthy source, but given the info they're peddling, it's clear he's wrong. /wink emoji

[curtis325]

My hope for this game: Joey Baker get stuff.

[jjc92]

My hope for this game: Joey Baker get stuff.

Haha. As soon as he said that in the presser I thought “he’s not gonna get anymore burn”. Hopefully I’m wrong though.

[Sixthman]

When a team like Miami is having a disappointing season, they often decline at the end of the season. That is not the case with this team. They are coming off a disappointing one point loss on the road to Wake, but other than that,the last six games look pretty strong for Miami. A solid 15 point win over Notre Dame at home, a 7 point loss on the road to BC, a three point overtime loss to the heels in Chapel Hill, a 1 point win over a good Clemson team, and a 15 point win over Georgia Tech. They are winless on the road this season; but almost picked that first win up at Wake. This is not a team playing out the string. They will be ready to play, like everyone will want prove a thing or two in Cameron, and with a guard heavy team, may have the recipe for giving Duke problems. When I hear streaky shooters, I fear the worst. I think Duke’s recipe for a win is to limit catch and shoot opportunities from three and protect the rim. If R.J. is healthy, I don’t really see how they hold him under 20 points. We’ll need a big game from Cam. Assuming no Zion, the question is where else do our points come from. If Miami plays 4 guards, that may limit Bolden’s court time. Tre has been struggling on offense. AO? There are three or four guys due to break out a little — but is today the day?

[Fish80]

Vigil thread is reporting Zion is not playing today.

[Furniture]

https://mobile.twitter.com/dukebasketball/status/1101873606563373056

Z Not playing.

[Rich]

When a team like Miami is having a disappointing season, they often decline at the end of the season. That is not the case with this team. They are coming off a disappointing one point loss on the road to Wake, but other than that,the last six games look pretty strong for Miami. A solid 15 point win over Notre Dame at home, a 7 point loss on the road to BC, a three point overtime loss to the heels in Chapel Hill, a 1 point win over a good Clemson team, and a 15 point win over Georgia Tech. They are winless on the road this season; but almost picked that first win up at Wake. This is not a team playing out the string. They will be ready to play, like everyone will want prove a thing or two in Cameron, and with a guard heavy team, may have the recipe for giving Duke problems. When I hear streaky shooters, I fear the worst. I think Duke’s recipe for a win is to limit catch and shoot opportunities from three and protect the rim. If R.J. is healthy, I don’t really see how they hold him under 20 points. We’ll need a big game from Cam. Assuming no Zion, the question is where else do our points come from. If Miami plays 4 guards, that may limit Bolden’s court time. Tre has been struggling on offense. AO? There are three or four guys due to break out a little — but is today the day?

I think if we can throw a knockout punch in the first 10 minutes then Miami will fold. If we let them stay in the game through halftime, as we tend to do, we'll have a dog fight on our hands. Given the claims that we're a tired team, this would be a great time to allow our starters to rest in the second half. Unfortunately, we're usually a slow starting team and more focused and assertive in the 2d half. We really need to flip that script today.

[jv001]

I think if we can throw a knockout punch in the first 10 minutes then Miami will fold. If we let them stay in the game through halftime, as we tend to do, we'll have a dog fight on our hands. Given the claims that we're a tired team, this would be a great time to allow our starters to rest in the second half. Unfortunately, we're usually a slow starting team and more focused and assertive in the 2d half. We really need to flip that script today.

I agree with Rich, knock em back and don't let them feel good about themselves winning at Cameron. This would be a good game to blow them out in the first half and like you say, rest some to the starters. Some time off here and then more time off against the Deacs so they can wipe the floor with the cheats. GoDuke!

[BandAlum83]

https://mobile.twitter.com/dukebasketball/status/1101873606563373056

Z Not playing.

I do hoe he is back for his "senior" day on Tuesday vs. Wake!

[dairedevil]

Okay, Zion is out. Are we aware of any other injuries or illnesses that the team has? It seems like there has been something going around. I really would like for everybody to be healthy!

[NSDukeFan]

Okay, Zion is out. Are we aware of any other injuries or illnesses that the team has? It seems like there has been something going around. I really would like for everybody to be healthy!

I think that’s enough.

[arnie]

I think that’s enough.

Ky-Tn game on CBS is a foulfest and just went to half. Likely won’t be over till 4:30. Any alternate way to watch us, or we simply miss fair amount of 1st half?

[-jk]

DBR Chat (http://forums.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/misc.php?do=cchatbox) is open!

If it gets a bit slow, refresh the page. If you're on a mobile device, you'll need to select "Blue" at the bottom.

As always - please follow the DBR Posting Guidelines.

Let's Go Duke!

-jk

[tbyers11]

Ky-Tn game on CBS is a foulfest and just went to half. Likely won’t be over till 4:30. Any alternate way to watch us, or we simply miss fair amount of 1st half?

If you download the the CBS Sports app to your phone/tablet you can watch for free there. You can then cast to your TV via Google Chrome or Amazon Fire stick. I just tested it with Google Chrome and it worked fine.

[arnie]

If you download the the CBS Sports app to your phone/tablet you can watch for free there. You can then cast to your TV via Google Chrome or Amazon Fire stick. I just tested it with Google Chrome and it worked fine.

Thanks!!

[duke2x]

Ky-Tn game on CBS is a foulfest and just went to half. Likely won’t be over till 4:30. Any alternate way to watch us, or we simply miss fair amount of 1st half?

WRAL used to preempt 1970's reruns on the digital tier for local games. I'm not sure if WNCN will. You probably want to turn down the sound to avoid Clark Kellogg anyway.

[DU82]

Ky-Tn game on CBS is a foulfest and just went to half. Likely won’t be over till 4:30. Any alternate way to watch us, or we simply miss fair amount of 1st half?

National anthem at4:08, plus intros, so tip-off closer to4:15

[dukelion]

This is the game Jack gets of the schnide.....book it.

[whereinthehellami]

I got my IPA ready, all dressed up and ready to go...go Duke!

[arnie]

National anthem at4:08, plus intros, so tip-off closer to4:15

CBS just screwed Kent and Tenn. Guess we are all powerful.

[uh_no]

thank you CBS national channel for playing 5 minutes of commercials instead of showing the game.

<insert choice words>

[whereinthehellami]

Good energy so far. Nice recovery and finish by AOC in the open court.

[Duke76]

Good energy so far. Nice recovery and finish by AOC in the open court.

announcer with Clark just said "Zion looked awfully good in practice yesterday..."

[dukelion]

This is the game Jack gets of the schnide....book it.

I just had a feeling:)

[wavedukefan70s]

Jack white the curse has been broken.

[timmy c]

thank you CBS national channel for playing 5 minutes of commercials instead of showing the game.

<insert choice words>

Commercials Before Sports

[Acymetric]

That might have been the loudest Cameron has gotten all year (not counting that blasted PA system...sheesh).

[rsvman]

Baker doesn't have a very long leash.

[whereinthehellami]

Barrett with the monster flush and alley to Bolden on the next play. Sweet!

[wavedukefan70s]

thank you CBS national channel for playing 5 minutes of commercials instead of showing the game.

<insert choice words>

Agree

[ChrisP]

We're taking lots of quick (bad) shots. Why???

[BigZ]

I’ve never seen a team where their big man shoot fouls better than guards

[dukelion]

AOC making up for the lack of Zion's dunks

[whereinthehellami]

What is up with mighty mouse launching himself into Javin and getting the call?

Nice flush by AOC, impressive athleticism.

[timmy c]

What is up with mighty mouse launching himself into Javin and getting the call?.

Hope RJ gets that same call all afternoon.

[porkpa]

How about the crowd reaction to Jack's three?

[robed deity]

Barrett has made huge strides as a playmaker. Great to see.

[ChrisP]

Bolden and AOC having nice games so far. RJ playing really well, too after a few questionable early shots. Let's keep our foot on the gas and hope for lots of Joey B in this one!

[rsvman]

Hope RJ gets that same call all afternoon.

He won't, obviously.

Also, he pushes of a lot on drives and the refs are starting to catch on. Down the stretch of the season he's going to have to be careful, or at least more subtle. We can't afford to have him on the bench in foul trouble.

[rsvman]

Jones just gave me a Gonzaga flashback!

[Billy Dat]

Assuming this holds up, this is just what the doctor ordered.

[ChillinDuke]

Our defense looks so similar to the previous game...

- Chillin

[duke96]

Assuming this holds up, this is just what the doctor ordered.

Seriously. I think we have a decent chance to pull this one out.

Nice to seem some of the other guys get some confidence right before (hopefully!) Zion get back.

C

[whereinthehellami]

Solid defense. Good ball movement in 2nd quarter led to some 3s.

Everyone playing together and having fun. Zion looks like he can't wait to join the team on the court.

I agree, this is just what the team needed.

[TeacherTom]

Jack’s smile stretched all the way to Australia!

[gofurman]

Did White play after hitting the three?

[wsb3]

Hoping the blowout continues and that Baker gets a good run in the second half along with Jack.

[ChrisP]

I vote for more Jack & Joey. Really happy for Bolden, too. He's playing hard and it's paying off!

[gocanes0506]

D game is back to being strong this half.

[whereinthehellami]

Press is looking good. Miami is struggling dealing with it.

[dukelion]

I know we have a lot of concerns about our three point shooting but defensive rebounding may be the bigger concern.

Just horrendous right now.

[arnie]

Javin had quite the offensive highlight reel between 11 and 12 minute mark😡

[whereinthehellami]

What happened to Javin's hands? Not a good sequence for him.

Keep it to around 20 and get the subs in for some pt.

[bigperm13]

Javin has the hands of Casey Sanders.

[jwillfan]

What is wrong with some people. Negativity in the face of a near 30 pt beat down without Zion?!??

[gocanes0506]

The little guy from Miami gets the opposite treatment of Zion by the refs. Over protection.

[jwillfan]

The little guy from Miami gets the opposite treatment of Zion by the refs. Over protection.

He's fragile and tiny, c'mon!

[gocanes0506]

Up 27 I thought I would see more Baker and White at this point.

[wavedukefan70s]

Paging joey Baker .paging joey Baker 🤨

[fuse]

Defense in the second half has been....lackluster.

Top Five Plays of the game (so far):

5. Jack White three
4. Alex breakaway dunk
3. Barrett slam
2. Cam spin and score
1. Tre Jones first half steal....that was just dirty

[whereinthehellami]

RJ Is just relentless. Make or miss he just keeps coming at you. Stone cold.

Nice move by Cam on the spin move.

[wavedukefan70s]

Hope the little guy isnt hurt.

[whereinthehellami]

Jack with his 2nd 3, a rim rattler.

[Steven43]

Told y’all Jack would figure it out.

[whereinthehellami]

Jack for 3 mo!