Adidas scandal latest

[CDu]

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/26078287/arizona-sean-miller-lsu-wade-subpoenaed-college-hoops-corruption-trial

Things are about to get really interesting.

[HereBeforeCoachK]

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/26078287/arizona-sean-miller-lsu-wade-subpoenaed-college-hoops-corruption-trial

Things are about to get really interesting.

People I know who have ties to the SEC......seem to think Will Wade is too dumb to walk across the street.

[Nugget]

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/26078287/arizona-sean-miller-lsu-wade-subpoenaed-college-hoops-corruption-trial

Things are about to get really interesting.

I'm less interested in Sean Miller's testimony (although hearing his story about the reported "at least 13 phone calls [between Dawkins' cell and] a cell number belonging to Sean Miller ... from May 3, 2017, to July 2, 2017," all of which lasted longer than 5 minutes, would be very interesting), than I am in hearing the wiretaps/seeing the transcripts -- in particular to know whether there is any wiretap evidence to corroborate any of:

(i) Brian Bowen Sr's testimony that Dawkins said former UA Assistant (now UCSB coach) offered $50,000 for Bowen to sign with Arizona;

(ii) the assertion by defense counsel at the last trial that, as described in the linked article, "Arizona offered -- or was prepared to offer -- $150,000 for ... Nassir Little to sign with the Wildcats"; and/or

(iii) the controversial Mark Schlabach report (linked below) that asserted, among other things, that there were calls "between ... Miller and ... Dawkins, ... in which Miller discussed paying $100,000 to ensure star freshman Deandre Ayton signed with the Wildcats," and that "[w]hen Dawkins asked Miller if he should work with ... Book Richardson to finalize their agreement, Miller told Dawkins he should deal directly with him when it came to money." http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/22559284/sean-miller-arizona-christian-dawkins-discussed-payment-ensure-deandre-ayton-signing-according-fbi-investigation.

Sean Miller's "denial" of the Schlabach report was, to my mind, overly specific -- i.e., he focused the denial on (1) not actually paying for any recruit, (2) not discussing "paying Deandre Ayton" with Dawkins and (3) that he "never even met or spoke [with] Dawkins until after Deandre publicly announced he was coming to" Arizona. https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2762200-si-refutes-espn-report-on-sean-miller-deandre-ayton-arizona-fbi-investigation.

There was some facial plausibility to Miller's specific denial in that most of the reports had the wiretapping being done in in the Spring/Summer of 2017, whereas Ayton had committed to Arizona in the Fall of 2016.

One of the theories being floated at the time was the Schlabach's story was correct in most respects, but wrong on the player involved -- that it was about Brian Bowen, not Ayton.

Given the narrow crafting of Miller's denial, each of the statements he made in it could, I believe, be technically reconciled with a version of Schlabach's story being correct in everything except it not being about Ayton. If that's true, then I think Miller would be done, since he has tried to portray his prior denial as a wholesale denial of any wrongdoing at all -- a discussion about paying to get Bowen (or anyone) to commit to Arizona has to be a fireable offense whether or not such payment was actually made or the player actually landed.

On the other hand, if there were a tape of such a call, then I can't figure out why Dawkins wouldn't have tried to use it at the first trial -- and none of the recordings/transcripts released by the Govt. after the trial contain anything as explicit as was reported on by Schlabach.

I guess we will see who was telling the truth -- I'd feared all of this would be buried by Richardson's taking a plea.

[UrinalCake]

According to reports, Sean Miller has been notified by the FBI that he will be subpoenaed (along with LSU coach Will Wade). Are we really sure Mannion is going to stand by his commitment?

[devildeac]

According to reports, Sean Miller has been notified by the FBI that he will be subpoenaed (along with LSU coach Will Wade). Are we really sure Mannion is going to stand by his commitment?

Maybe. Maybe not.

Sean, is that you singing?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJx9E-rUqhg

[MChambers]

According to reports, Sean Miller has been notified by the FBI that he will be subpoenaed (along with LSU coach Will Wade). Are we really sure Mannion is going to stand by his commitment?

I read that Miller and Wade were subpoenaed by the defendants in the federal case, not the FBI. They'll be asked to support the defendants' cases, not the feds. But they will be subject to cross-examination by the feds.

[JasonEvans]

I am sure someone is going to explain to me how so many stud recruits have chosen to commit to Arizona for next season... I'm waiting...

-Jason "there has to be at least a 25% chance Sean Miller never coaches again after this trial is over, right?" Evans

[Jeffrey]

I am sure someone is going to explain to me how so many stud recruits have chosen to commit to Arizona for next season... I'm waiting...


Studs like..... https://sport.one/the-top-10-hottest-college-cheerleading-squads/

[AGDukesky]

I am sure someone is going to explain to me how so many stud recruits have chosen to commit to Arizona for next season... I'm waiting...

-Jason "there has to be at least a 25% chance Sean Miller never coaches again after this trial is over, right?" Evans

I’m sure Calhoun would hire him as an assistant...

[ChillinDuke]

According to reports, Sean Miller has been notified by the FBI that he will be subpoenaed (along with LSU coach Will Wade). Are we really sure Mannion is going to stand by his commitment?

Boy, you sure hate to see that situation happen to the kid. But I'll take what I can get, if I can get it.

Certainly, UNC did with Nassir Little.

- Chillin

[golfinesquire]

I read that Miller and Wade were subpoenaed by the defendants in the federal case, not the FBI. They'll be asked to support the defendants' cases, not the feds. But they will be subject to cross-examination by the feds.

The problem for them is, at least from what I read, that the defense case is that everyone does this and everyone knows about it so if the schools know, they are not being defrauded. It is not at all clear that the judge will let them try this and it creates an uncomfortable situation for the defense witnesses. Will be interesting.

[MChambers]

The problem for them is, at least from what I read, that the defense case is that everyone does this and everyone knows about it so if the schools know, they are not being defrauded. It is not at all clear that the judge will let them try this and it creates an uncomfortable situation for the defense witnesses. Will be interesting.

Very interesting. Might be a good defense against criminal charges, but the NCAA won't like it.

[devildeac]

Very interesting. Might be a good defense against criminal charges, but the NCAA won't like it.

Maybe they'll punish ND and Missouri again. :mad:

[Pghdukie]

I believe Cal would out bid Calhoun ! And Slick Rick would "Out-Benefit" Cal !

[Pghdukie]

Will anyone throw Nike or UnderArmor under the bus ? At times, a sinking ship has a tendency to cry wolf ! The old "Everyone is doing it" defense.
It surely will be interesting to watch.

[plimnko]

Will anyone throw Nike or UnderArmor under the bus ? At times, a sinking ship has a tendency to cry wolf ! The old "Everyone is doing it" defense.
It surely will be interesting to watch.


maybe they'll use the cheat's defense and say all students were given thousands of dollars to attend their schools.

[UrinalCake]

(ii) the assertion by defense counsel at the last trial that, as described in the linked article, "Arizona offered -- or was prepared to offer -- $150,000 for ... Nassir Little to sign with the Wildcats"

Any UNC-CHeat fan will tell you that since an agent claimed that Kansas was willing to pay Zion, and Zion came to Duke, the ONLY logical conclusion is that Duke paid Zion even more. There is no other possible explanation. But as far as Little, the situation is completely different. He knew nothing and chose the CHeats because he needed to go to the cleanest program he could find. (Yes, their fans actually think this.)

[Tooold]

Any UNC-CHeat fan will tell you that since an agent claimed that Kansas was willing to pay Zion, and Zion came to Duke, the ONLY logical conclusion is that Duke paid Zion even more. There is no other possible explanation. But as far as Little, the situation is completely different. He knew nothing and chose the CHeats because he needed to go to the cleanest program he could find. (Yes, their fans actually think this.)

Twisted logic. But maybe that’s what they learn in their “classes”.

[DukieInKansas]

Twisted logic. But maybe that’s what they learn in their “classes”.

Since a Kansas fan said something to me about Zion's shoe contract that got him to Duke, it isn't just unc fans.

[flyingdutchdevil]

Will anyone throw Nike or UnderArmor under the bus ? At times, a sinking ship has a tendency to cry wolf ! The old "Everyone is doing it" defense.
It surely will be interesting to watch.

Very interesting points. With Nike, they are a massive market leader, especially in basketball. Do they need to pay kids/programs? With UA, I can absolutely see them paying players, but maybe they have more of a moral compass (based on what I’ve heard of their executive team, maybe not).

IMO, we haven’t scratched the surface of this yet. Plenty more shoe company scandals to come!

[budwom]

Very interesting points. With Nike, they are a massive market leader, especially in basketball. Do they need to pay kids/programs? With UA, I can absolutely see them paying players, but maybe they have more of a moral compass (based on what I’ve heard of their executive team, maybe not).

IMO, we haven’t scratched the surface of this yet. Plenty more shoe company scandals to come!

Good question...IMO I think there are more problems with intermediaries than there are with the shoe companies themselves, but anything is possible. The whole AAU/advisor realm has a pretty high sleaze factor.

[flyingdutchdevil]

Good question...IMO I think there are more problems with intermediaries than there are with the shoe companies themselves, but anything is possible. The whole AAU/advisor realm has a pretty high sleaze factor.

True. It wouldn't surprise me if Nike wasn't involved with paying players. Sadly, it would surprise me if UA didn't pay players. I guess I'm just jaded with the oxymoron, "amateur sports".

[JasonEvans]

Here's a really good column from the Arizona Republic (https://www.azcentral.com/story/sports/college/ua/2019/02/26/sean-miller-subpoena-arizona-basketball/2992329002/?cid=twitter_azcentral)previewing what is at stake in the April trial.


You need a tracking party to find any amount of institutional control Arizona has exhibited.

Through it all, Miller has remained on the job, and the Wildcats (16-12, 7-8 in the Pac-12) are enduring their worst season since 1983-84, Olson’s first year.

But help is on the way, which can explain while Miller has a job.

Miller signed one of the nation’s top recruiting classes for 2019, including a potential dynamic backcourt of Nico Mannion from Pinnacle High and Josh Green from IMG Academy in Florida. Both are five-star recruits.

So far, those players at sticking to their commitments to Arizona.

But that and so much else will be at stake in April.

[weezie]

I vote for sending Buzzy Williams to Tucson. Along with his vests.

[DarkstarWahoo]

There is exactly zero doubt in my mind that Wade is dirty. I've been around the VCU program enough to at least have conversations with each coach since Shaka took over. Shaka is charming and personable. Rhoades is friendly and salt-of-the-earth. Wade has no discernible personality. Now he's got a top 5 class his first year of recruiting at the P5 level. He'd landed a couple of top-50-type kids at VCU before he bailed. There's no evidence that he's a big-time coach, but he's punching way above his weight recruiting-wise. He's like Lorenzo Romar when he was at Washington.

You could see why Shaka got players. He had a lot of personality and ran an attractive system at a school with essentially no academic hurdles to clear. He could recruit anyone he wanted. He could JUCO, take transfers, do whatever. Havoc and tons of 3s in a wild home-court environment is pretty appealing for a lot of kids. Then he went to a Final Four. His recruiting made sense. Wade's doesn't. It's not difficult to figure out who the outliers are.

[BD80]

Any UNC-CHeat fan will tell you that since an agent claimed that Kansas was willing to pay Zion, and Zion came to Duke, the ONLY logical conclusion is that Duke paid Zion even more. There is no other possible explanation. But as far as Little, the situation is completely different. He knew nothing and chose the CHeats because he needed to go to the cleanest program he could find. (Yes, their fans actually think this.)


Twisted logic. But maybe that’s what they learn in their “classes”.

You just don't seem to understand.

This is the classic unc example of why they were justified in having make believe classes for players! You DON'T learn the real world lessons about payoffs and graft in the classroom! You need real world experiences with a guy named Fats and expensive rental cars.

[Nugget]

This is pretty disgusting: https://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/report-kansas-seeking-1-million-in-restitution-over-college-basketball-corruption-trial/

Reminds of the old joke about someone who kills his parents and then pleads the court for mercy because he's an orphan!

I know that the Govt. had to go through the motions of adopting the fiction that Kansas, Louisville, etc. were the "victims" of the conspiracy to defraud them by the shoe companies/agents undermining the amateur status of players.

But, who the hell is Kansas kidding by pretending that it had no culpability in this, when its assistant coaches were knee-deep in it, and Bill Self is also directly implicated?

Kansas has alot of nerve to expect everyone to forget the text exchange between Self and Adidas' Gassnola reported on below (https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/colleges/texts-between-kansass-bill-self-and-adidas-consultant-introduced-as-evidence/2018/10/15/29ace080-d0bd-11e8-83d6-291fcead2ab1_story.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.04306ce83d79) regarding the school's $ 191 million contract with Adidas:

"In August 2017, as lawyers for Kansas and Adidas were finishing work on a 12-year, $191-million extension of the apparel company’s sponsorship contract with the school, Coach Bill Self got a text message from a friend in Adidas’s youth basketball division. 'Hall of famer. Thank you for help with Getting this extension done. Thx brotha,' wrote T.J. Gassnola, a top consultant for Adidas basketball who traveled the country trying to convince elite teenagers to play for the shoe company’s youth, or grass-roots, league.

'I’m happy with adidas,' Self replied. 'Just got to get a couple real guys.”'/B]

'In my mind it’s KU bill self . . . that’s what’s right for adidas Basketball . . . the more you win, have lottery pics. And you happy,' Gassnola wrote. '[B]I promise you. I got this, I have never let you down Except (Dyondre) lol.'”

[JasonEvans]

'In my mind it’s KU bill self . . . that’s what’s right for adidas Basketball . . . the more you win, have lottery pics. And you happy,' Gassnola wrote. 'I promise you. I got this, I have never let you down Except (Dyondre) lol.'”

I would looooove to hear Self try to explain his way out of that text. Why was Gassnola talking about Ayton and letting Self down unless it was Gassnola/Adidas job to procure recruits for Self?

[NSDukeFan]

As far as the NCAA goes, couldn’t the coaches and/or schools say they were just joking or misspoke if they say anything against regulations during the trial?

[TruBlu]

As far as the NCAA goes, couldn’t the coaches and/or schools say they were just joking or misspoke if they say anything against regulations during the trial?

"Typo" worked pretty well for the cheaters at unc.

[Pghdukie]

"Mis-remembering" worked fairly well for a certain MLB pitcher !

[jv001]

"Mis-remembering" worked fairly well for a certain MLB pitcher !

And former POTUS.:cool: GoDuke!

[thedukelamere]

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/26172472/sources-lsu-coach-wiretap-discussing-offer

Pretty damning evidence against LSU and Coach Wade, who have had a pretty productive year.

[JasonEvans]

"Dude," Wade continued during the call, "I went to [the handler] with a [expletive] strong-I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this. offer about a month ago. [Expletive] strong.

"The problem was, I know why he didn't take it now. It was [expletive] tilted toward the family a little bit. It was tilted toward taking care of the mom, taking care of the kid. Like it was tilted towards that. Now I know for a fact he didn't explain everything to the mom. I know now, he didn't get enough of the piece of the pie in the deal."

Later on in the wiretaps, Will Wade says the player is going to make more than the NBA rookie minimum to play at LSU. The player being discussed is LSU freshman guard Javonte Smart, who is averaging 11.5ppg for the Tigers.

-Jason "I suspect Will Wade may not be the coach at LSU (or anywhere) for much longer. Unless he is going to argue that it is not his voice on the tapes, he's cooked" Evans

[UrinalCake]

Reports coming out on the Twitters that assistants at Creighton and TCU were involved with Dawkins as well.

link (https://sports.yahoo.com/sources-creighton-tcu-now-involved-college-basketball-fraud-scandal-223559696.html)

[JasonEvans]

From the above link...


College basketball’s fraud scandal has expanded by two schools after federal prosecutors alleged Thursday that basketball middleman Christian Dawkins paid a pair of $6,000 bribes to assistant coaches at unnamed schools located in Nebraska and Texas in order for them to later steer future NBA players to him.

Sources told Yahoo Sports the assistant coaches involved are Preston Murphy of Creighton and Corey Barker of TCU.

While this is bad and wrong and (if true) these men should be fired, I don't see this crime as being one that brings the integrity of the program into question. I have a much bigger problem with the guys who were asking Adidas to help them in recruiting by paying tens/hundreds of thousands to recruits to get them to play for a specific program (which is what is alleged about Arizona, Kansas, and LSU).

-Jason "I wonder how LSU was able to convince Ben Simmons to play there..." Evans

[UrinalCake]

^ I thought about Ben Simmons too, but also recalled that he basically quit on his team towards the end of the season. Seems like if he had been paid to go there, that would have sparked a scene similar to the one in Blue Chips where Penny Hardaway is unhappy and Nick Nolte makes a phone call and then tells him “you better be in practice tomorrow.”

[JasonEvans]

^ I thought about Ben Simmons too, but also recalled that he basically quit on his team towards the end of the season. Seems like if he had been paid to go there, that would have sparked a scene similar to the one in Blue Chips where Penny Hardaway is unhappy and Nick Nolte makes a phone call and then tells him “you better be in practice tomorrow.”

Exactly what leverage did LSU have over Ben Simmons when he quit to prepare for the draft? He was clearly going #1 and seemed like a future all-star who would make a boatload of money very soon.

Let's pretend that we know Adidas did pay Simmons to go to LSU. When Simmons said he was shutting it down, it is not like LSU could ask for the Adidas money to be returned because Adidas hoped to sign Simmons to a shoe deal (Simmons ended up signing with Nike). Plus, how public could LSU be in all this seeing as no one can find out they paid him to play there? I don't see it like Blue Chips at all... the kid had all the cards. LSU really could do very little.

[Nugget]

-Jason "I wonder how LSU was able to convince Ben Simmons to play there..." Evans

Ben Simmons' godfather (longtime family friend who had played with his dad) was an assistant at LSU at the time

[BD80]

Later on in the wiretaps, Will Wade says the player is going to make more than the NBA rookie minimum to play at LSU. The player being discussed is LSU freshman guard Javonte Smart, who is averaging 11.5ppg for the Tigers.

-Jason "I suspect Will Wade may not be the coach at LSU (or anywhere) for much longer. Unless he is going to argue that it is not his voice on the tapes, he's cooked" Evans

Wade suspended indefinitely: http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/26192669/lsu-suspends-wade-indefinitely-amid-fbi-probe

Wonder how this will affect LSU's seeding?

[DangerDevil]

Wade suspended indefinitely: http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/26192669/lsu-suspends-wade-indefinitely-amid-fbi-probe

Wonder how this will affect LSU's seeding?

I think suspending Wade is the decent/appropriate thing to do but why do it if you are LSU?

The only answer I can think of is they are hoping to mitigate the severity of the NCAA’s punishment.

Why not see how this plays out and let Wade keep coaching? If the allegations are true then I assume the entire season will be vacated due to having a player(s) that accepted impermissible benefits participate.

[UrinalCake]

I think suspending Wade is the decent/appropriate thing to do but why do it if you are LSU?

Because they were getting hammered in the court of public opinion for continuing to let him coach, and some schools actually care about whether people think they have any integrity (obviously others do not).

[PSurprise]

Wonder what Alleva has to say about this...?

[PackMan97]

I think suspending Wade is the decent/appropriate thing to do but why do it if you are LSU?

The only answer I can think of is they are hoping to mitigate the severity of the NCAA’s punishment.

Why not see how this plays out and let Wade keep coaching? If the allegations are true then I assume the entire season will be vacated due to having a player(s) that accepted impermissible benefits participate.

Why? It's pretty simple...it's the reason you fire Butch Davis and stand behind Roy Williams. In LSU's case, you don't care about basketball and you want to toss the NCAA a bone and get them off campus and keep them away from your football program.

[arnie]

Wonder what Alleva has to say about this...?

Ha ha. I’m not sure anyone’s told him yet. He won’t have a position, unless his boss tells him the position .

[budwom]

Wonder what Alleva has to say about this...?

Joe can say he didn't know, since people who know him know how likely it is that he doesn't know anything.

[75Crazie]

Why? It's pretty simple...it's the reason you fire Butch Davis and stand behind Roy Williams. In LSU's case, you don't care about basketball and you want to toss the NCAA a bone and get them off campus and keep them away from your football program.
Ding ding ding ding ding!

[DangerDevil]

A few more updates:

Gottfried directly linked to payments.

“Court filings in a federal criminal case involving college basketball corruption link former NC State coach Mark Gottfried to being the first head coach directly connected to impermissible payments to players, sources told ESPN.

According to a disclosure from federal prosecutors, former NC State assistant Orlando Early's attorney said his client disclosed that Gottfried on two occasions gave him envelopes -- contained what Early believed was cash -- to deliver to star guard Dennis Smith Jr.'s trainer to ensure he signed with the Wolfpack in 2015.”

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/26198799/gottfried-directly-linked-payments

Wade apparently declined to meet with LSU officials to discuss the situation prior to his suspension.

“LSU basketball coach Will Wade was suspended by the university after he declined to meet with administrators to discuss alleged comments Wade made about recruiting efforts on phone calls secretly recorded by the FBI, a source familiar with the situation told The Advocate.“

https://www.theadvocate.com/baton_rouge/sports/lsu/article_04538804-41d6-11e9-a1b4-973c0af1c806.html

[MChambers]

Wade apparently declined to meet with LSU officials to discuss the situation prior to his suspension.

“LSU basketball coach Will Wade was suspended by the university after he declined to meet with administrators to discuss alleged comments Wade made about recruiting efforts on phone calls secretly recorded by the FBI, a source familiar with the situation told The Advocate.“

https://www.theadvocate.com/baton_rouge/sports/lsu/article_04538804-41d6-11e9-a1b4-973c0af1c806.html

Coach refuses to meet with his school's administrators and all they do is suspend him? If I was AD, I'd fire him immediately.

[sagegrouse]

A few more updates:

Gottfried directly linked to payments.

“Court filings in a federal criminal case involving college basketball corruption link former NC State coach Mark Gottfried to being the first head coach directly connected to impermissible payments to players, sources told ESPN.

According to a disclosure from federal prosecutors, former NC State assistant Orlando Early's attorney said his client disclosed that Gottfried on two occasions gave him envelopes -- contained what Early believed was cash -- to deliver to star guard Dennis Smith Jr.'s trainer to ensure he signed with the Wolfpack in 2015.”

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/26198799/gottfried-directly-linked-payments

Wade apparently declined to meet with LSU officials to discuss the situation prior to his suspension.

“LSU basketball coach Will Wade was suspended by the university after he declined to meet with administrators to discuss alleged comments Wade made about recruiting efforts on phone calls secretly recorded by the FBI, a source familiar with the situation told The Advocate.“

https://www.theadvocate.com/baton_rouge/sports/lsu/article_04538804-41d6-11e9-a1b4-973c0af1c806.html


Coach refuses to meet with his school's administrators and all they do is suspend him? If I was AD, I'd fire him immediately.

No fooling. Failure to meet with the AD and other officials would be sufficient cause for firing in itself. Plus it avoids the messy part of -- "Whose voice is that on the tape?" Or, "Was it doctored?"

[JasonEvans]

Coach refuses to meet with his school's administrators and all they do is suspend him? If I was AD, I'd fire him immediately.

With fancy contracts there are likely procedures to go through for firing for cause. I am betting LSU is simply making sure they have everything properly documented before firing him. Recall that Pitino slapped Louisville with a $40 mil lawsuit when they fired him. I think a suspension and then moving prudently through an investigative period is perfectly appropriate for LSU.

Wade is likely refusing to talk to them on advice of lawyers. Also perfectly appropriate considering he likely has a significant amount of legal jeopardy at stake here.

-Jason "LSU plays Vandy tonight at 830pm... I wonder if Javonte Smart will suit up. Have to wonder if other players were paid too. Naz Reid is a stud and a huge recruit... why would you pay Smart and not pay a top 10 prospect like Reid?" Evans

[Pghdukie]

I agree totally with Jason. LSU has to have all their stars aligned to fire Wade. I'm just curious as to "suspended" with or without pay ?

[YmoBeThere]

Vandy is 0-17 in the SEC, could this be their ticket to a win? (And we were chuckling last season as former coach Kevin Stallings was bageling Pitt's ACC schedule. Karma is a ...)

[Bob Green]

-Jason "LSU plays Vandy tonight at 830pm... I wonder if Javonte Smart will suit up. Have to wonder if other players were paid too. Naz Reid is a stud and a huge recruit... why would you pay Smart and not pay a top 10 prospect like Reid?" Evans

Smart will not play per ESPN:

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/26210100/lsu-sit-smart-amid-recruitment-concerns


LSU guard Javonte Smart, whose recruitment by coach Will Wade has reportedly been linked to an FBI wiretap, will sit out Saturday's regular-season finale against Vanderbilt, the university announced.

[sagegrouse]

With fancy contracts there are likely procedures to go through for firing for cause. I am betting LSU is simply making sure they have everything properly documented before firing him. Recall that Pitino slapped Louisville with a $40 mil lawsuit when they fired him. I think a suspension and then moving prudently through an investigative period is perfectly appropriate for LSU.

Wade is likely refusing to talk to them on advice of lawyers. Also perfectly appropriate considering he likely has a significant amount of legal jeopardy at stake here.

-Jason "LSU plays Vandy tonight at 830pm... I wonder if Javonte Smart will suit up. Have to wonder if other players were paid too. Naz Reid is a stud and a huge recruit... why would you pay Smart and not pay a top 10 prospect like Reid?" Evans

Holy moly! I didn't know any of this this! From his Wikipedia bio:


Will Wade began his career as the student manager of the Clemson men's basketball team from 2002–2005. He worked under Larry Shyatt and Oliver Purnell, who gave him further opportunities as a graduate assistant (2005–06) and Director of Basketball Operations (2006–07).
Tommy Amaker then brought him in as his first hire as Harvard men's basketball coach where he was responsible for helping to recruit a top 25 class for the program. He stayed at Harvard for the 2007–08 and 2008–09 seasons before leaving for VCU.
Will Wade was brought in as an assistant to then-head coach Shaka Smart at VCU (he was Smart's first hire like he had been Amaker's). He helped VCU to four consecutive postseason appearances, including a trip to the 2011 Final Four.

[BD80]

…

-Jason "... Have to wonder if other players were paid too. Naz Reid is a stud and a huge recruit... why would you pay Smart and not pay a top 10 prospect like Reid?" Evans

This is the kind of thing that has the SEC basketball coaches talking about a cap on payments to players …

Of course the SEC football coaches absolutely refuse to have limits on what they can pay their players ...

[cspan37421]

... NC State coach Mark Gottfried to being the first head coach directly connected to impermissible payments to players, ...

Someone equally skilled in Photoshop and snark should come up with some new slogans for NC's "First in Flight" license plates.

[DangerDevil]

-Jason "LSU plays Vandy tonight at 830pm... I wonder if Javonte Smart will suit up. Have to wonder if other players were paid too. Naz Reid is a stud and a huge recruit... why would you pay Smart and not pay a top 10 prospect like Reid?" Evans

Emmitt Williams was another 5 star recruit in LSU’s 2018 class and Tremont Waters was a big late addition to their 2017 class after Wade was hired.

Their 2019 class is a little different, only 2 signees, a JUCO transfer and a 3 star PG.

I wonder if anything was different during 2019 recruitment cycle?

[sagegrouse]

At today's LSU-Vanderbilt game in Baton Rouge, the fans jeered and screamed (http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/26213289/lsu-fans-deride-ad-sec-title-clinching-rout) at AD Joe Alleva but for all the wrong reasons -- they were mad that Will Wade was suspended and that Javonte Smart sidelined.

[arnie]

At today's LSU-Vanderbilt game in Baton Rouge, the fans jeered and screamed (http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/26213289/lsu-fans-deride-ad-sec-title-clinching-rout) at AD Joe Alleva but for all the wrong reasons -- they were mad that Will Wade was suspended and that Javonte Smart sidelined.

So Alleva gets booed at LSU; but except for a few astute fans in this area, got a free pass during his time at Duke despite Hillier, Franks, Roof, Coach G, Pressley/lacrosse debacle and complete malaise in football. Have I missed others? I’ll acknowledge the positive; he didn’t run K out of Durham.

[HereBeforeCoachK]

At today's LSU-Vanderbilt game in Baton Rouge, the fans jeered and screamed (http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/26213289/lsu-fans-deride-ad-sec-title-clinching-rout) at AD Joe Alleva but for all the wrong reasons -- they were mad that Will Wade was suspended and that Javonte Smart sidelined.

This points out the charming disparity between a classic SEC cheater and the unCheater - at LSU, they wear their cheating proudly.....(it's how the state is governed after all). At unCheat, they arrogantly pretend they are pure as the wind driven.....

[sagegrouse]

So Alleva gets booed at LSU; but except for a few astute fans in this area, got a free pass during his time at Duke despite Hillier, Franks, Roof, Coach G, Pressley/lacrosse debacle and complete malaise in football. Have I missed others? I’ll acknowledge the positive; he didn’t run K out of Durham.

You do understand that he was booed for actually doing his job in suspending Wade and sitting Smart and not for his job in hiring Will Wade in the first place.

[lotusland]

I would looooove to hear Self try to explain his way out of that text. Why was Gassnola talking about Ayton and letting Self down unless it was Gassnola/Adidas job to procure recruits for Self?

Garry Parrish said the difference between Self and Wade is that Self still has some degree of plausible deniability. We all know what the conversation was about but self never directly and overtly said, instructed or acknowledged that players would be paid to come to Kansas.

On the other hand, Pitino has the same degree of plausible deniability and he’s in Greece. With Pitino there’s more or a shady history though. Also Pitino may still end up coaching UCLA.

[arnie]

You do understand that he was booed for actually doing his job in suspending Wade and sitting Smart and not for his job in hiring Will Wade in the first place.

Oh yes, the irony of his getting booed for being told to do the right thing at LSU versus free pass at Duke for doing nothing.

[JStuart]

This points out the charming disparity between a classic SEC cheater and the unCheater - at LSU, they wear their cheating proudly....(it's how the state is governed after all). At unCheat, they arrogantly pretend they are pure as the wind driven....

I'll expect the heelz fans to point to State and LSU as bad guys, 'No Collusion!' and all that. After all, the NCAA gave them a 'clean bill of health', who cares what the Southern Association put them on probation for. 'Just a typo", after all.
Really getting hard to be excited about this year's March Madness.
Just my 0.02.

[Nugget]

Garry Parrish said the difference between Self and Wade is that Self still has some degree of plausible deniability. We all know what the conversation was about but self never directly and overtly said, instructed or acknowledged that players would be paid to come to Kansas.

I heard that on Parrish’s podcast and don’t really see how Self has much plausible deniability here. He wasn’t dumb enough to be as explicit as Wade, but I don’t see any wiggle room in him telling the Adidas rep “'I’m happy with adidas. Just got to get a couple real guys.” What could that possibly mean other than for Adidas to do something to steer recruits to KU?

[lotusland]

Is it a violation for Adidas to”steer” their AAU kids to an adidas school? I kinda depends on what is meant by “steer” doesn’t it? There’s plenty of plausible deniability for the ncaa and a willfully blind university as evidenced by the banners taken down in the Dean Dome.

[evrim]

I was truly embarrassed and frankly disappointed to read the Twitter thread - about LSU fans asking for firing athletic Director and supporting their cheating coach. Instead of being embarrassed they're doubling down because they can't bring themselves to admit it. Hope LSU gets years of probation. Their fans deserve that. Of course NCAA is responsible for this by not doing the right thing about UNCheat, so everybody got caught says why should you punish us?

https://twitter.com/ESPNBooger/status/1104557306916818944?s=19

[uh_no]

I was truly embarrassed and frankly disappointed to read the Twitter thread - about LSU fans asking for firing athletic Director and supporting their cheating coach. Instead of being embarrassed they're doubling down because they can't bring themselves to admit it. Hope LSU gets years of probation. Their fans deserve that. Of course NCAA is responsible for this by not doing the right thing about UNCheat, so everybody got caught says why should you punish us?

https://twitter.com/ESPNBooger/status/1104557306916818944?s=19

personally, i don't expect more from the SEC.

[House G]

I agree. If you’re surprised by this, you don’t know LSU fans. Of course, if this were the Alabama football team being investigated, they’d be behind the G men 100%.

[HereBeforeCoachK]

I was truly embarrassed and frankly disappointed to read the Twitter thread - about LSU fans asking for firing athletic Director and supporting their cheating coach. Instead of being embarrassed they're doubling down because they can't bring themselves to admit it. Hope LSU gets years of probation. Their fans deserve that. Of course NCAA is responsible for this by not doing the right thing about UNCheat, so everybody got caught says why should you punish us?

https://twitter.com/ESPNBooger/status/1104557306916818944?s=19

This is just LSU being LSU....just the SEC being the SEC.

[House G]

This is a good read on the Adidas scandal and the LSU perspective:
https://thehayride.com/2019/03/on-the-will-wade-controversy-at-lsu/

[arnie]

This is a good read on the Adidas scandal and the LSU perspective:
https://thehayride.com/2019/03/on-the-will-wade-controversy-at-lsu/

Interesting, but he tries to throw/imply Duke in the mix with State, Kansas, etc. I get his point, but really doubt Zion has taken cash from K or assistant coaches😡. The Cheat fans are all screaming that line.

[JasonEvans]

This is a good read on the Adidas scandal and the LSU perspective:
https://thehayride.com/2019/03/on-the-will-wade-controversy-at-lsu/

The article essentially makes the argument that "everybody does it" so why should we be mad at LSU. That is a terrible argument and we should be outraged by it.

First of all, everyone does not do it. I am sure there are plenty of smaller D1 programs that do not funnel money to players or get shoe companies to make the payments for them. There are more than a thousand new basketball players entering D1 every year. Even if the wildest conspiracy theories are to be believed, 90% of them are not getting paid and at least half the programs in the sport are probably clean when it comes to illegal payments (the MAAC, SWAC, Ivy, Patriot, and a few others ain't paying anybody). So, even if every Power conference team was paying every single player, this would be incredibly unfair to teams from smaller leagues who are playing by the rules. It is outrageous to simply gloss over LSU and other schools flaunting the rules by ignoring the many schools who do not and cannot pay players.

Second, I have a problem with these lines:

Wade just happens to be the flavor of the month for media outrage, mostly because LSU is 26-5 and 16-2 in the SEC and could, with three wins in the SEC Tournament in Nashville this week, be a #1 seed in the NCAA Tournament.

I don't care if LSU wins the SEC tournament by 20+ points in each game, they are not getting a #1 seed. We are talking about KenPom's #16 team and the NET's #13 team. If they win the SEC tourney, they might get a #2 seed. Worth noting that both Kentucky and Tennessee are considered more likely picks to win the SEC tourney anyway. So, the author immediately betrays his lack of knowledge of college hoops with his statement about the quality of LSU's season.

But, more to the point, the notion that we are outrages because LSU is fairly good this season is largely false. We are outraged because Wade's comments are the most clear and obvious statements yet captured on wiretap that show some college coaches were paying players. For example, the comments we have heard from Bill Self merely has him saying to his Adidas rep that we, "just need to get a couple real guys." That is nowhere near Will Wade saying he made "a hell of an offer" to Javonte Smart and lamenting that his offer was tilted too much toward the family and not enough toward the handler who was steering Smart to LSU. If Wade's comments had instead come from the coach of Missouri or Georgia (just picking a couple weak SEC teams) we would still be outraged. I will grant that the allegations take on a bit more urgency with Smart playing a key role on a team that is headed for the tourney with a decent seed, but to imply we would not care if a lesser power conference team were implicated is silly.

Bottom line -- this scandal is revealing a seedy underbelly of college athletics, one many folks suspected but which is now being confirmed. Rather than just throw up our hands and ignore it because it seems to be quite prevalent, let's find the schools and the coaches who are doing this and drum them out of the sport; let's put a system in place that discourages kids from being influenced by shady runners; let's allows the players to at least get some compensation for their efforts in what amounts to the NBA's minor league; let's make reforms so we don't have to endure any more deals under the table.

But to gloss over the Will Wade scandal as anything less than an outrage... well that would be the biggest mistake of all.

-Jason "of course the article mentions Zion and Duke... clickbait much?" Evans

[PackMan97]

But to gloss over the Will Wade scandal as anything less than an outrage... well that would be the biggest mistake of all.

-Jason "of course the article mentions Zion and Duke... clickbait much?" Evans

I've lost all my outrage at paying players since I learned the NCAA doesn't give a rats feces about whether or not kids get an education. Pay the players at least they'll get something from it. I also have to mention Duke and Zion because they better not let me down a third time. That is something to be outraged about.

[Ian]

This is just LSU being LSU...just the SEC being the SEC.

Yeah, no. It's just fans being fans.

Honestly, most fans of every school pretends to care about winning the "right way" but deep down they mostly just care about winning. That's true for LSU fans, and it's true for UNC fans who flaunted the "Carolina Way".
It's true for San Francisco Giants fans who defend Barry Bonds and true for Yankee fans who defend A-Rod.

They don't care about doing it the "right way" unless it's another badge they get to wear and another soap box they get to stand on to look down at fans of other teams. Heck, it wasn't too long ago Duke fans were all about "true student athletes" and "the value of a Duke degree" and now most of them have made their peace with becoming a NBA player-development program, so long as it means winning more games.

[jv001]

I've lost all my outrage at paying players since I learned the NCAA doesn't give a rats feces about whether or not kids get an education. Pay the players at least they'll get something from it. I also have to mention Duke and Zion because they better not let me down a third time. That is something to be outraged about.

How about a little help from the Pack. We can't carry the load every year. :cool:GoDuke!

[PackMan97]

How about a little help from the Pack. We can't carry the load every year. :cool:GoDuke!

We beat them last year. If we beat them more often, they'd be our rival.

:cool:

[devildeac]

We beat them last year. If we beat them more often, they'd be our rival.

:cool:

Not true. They *still* cheated. :p

[House G]

Wade has issued a statement:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nola.com/lsu/2019/03/will-wade-says-he-wants-to-resume-duties-as-lsus-head-coach.html%3foutputType=amp

[MChambers]

Wade has issued a statement:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nola.com/lsu/2019/03/will-wade-says-he-wants-to-resume-duties-as-lsus-head-coach.html%3foutputType=amp

He’s said he’s exercising his constitutional rights, by which I assume he means his right to remain silent and that he should still be able to coach.

In a civil action, a jury can draw an adverse inference from the assertion of the right to remain silent. Don’t see why LSU can’t do the same, but I haven’t researched this.

[budwom]

He’s said he’s exercising his constitutional rights, by which I assume he means his right to remain silent and that he should still be able to coach.

In a civil action, a jury can draw an adverse inference from the assertion of the right to remain silent. Don’t see why LSU can’t do the same, but I haven’t researched this.

Watching him the day the scandal broke hemming and hawing in front of the press was really painful...guess he didn't know about the virtues of silence then.

[BLPOG]

Wade has issued a statement:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nola.com/lsu/2019/03/will-wade-says-he-wants-to-resume-duties-as-lsus-head-coach.html%3foutputType=amp

Here is a reformatted link for those who descend into uncontrolled rage in response to Google's nefarious AMP scheme: link (https://www.nola.com/lsu/2019/03/will-wade-says-he-wants-to-resume-duties-as-lsus-head-coach.html)

[BD80]

Wade has issued a statement:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nola.com/lsu/2019/03/will-wade-says-he-wants-to-resume-duties-as-lsus-head-coach.html%3foutputType=amp

If he won't answer questions, what good does it do him to coach?

As I ask the question, the answer is clear, this is his clear chance to coach a team to the Sweet Sixteen, Elite 8, and perhaps Final Four. Since he will be out of a job, a run in the tournament will look great on the resume.

As for the boosters, whatever crime has been committed is complete, so the team may as well win as much as it can while it can. UM still takes pride in the Championship game appearances by the Fab 5, even though they were stricken from the records.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

He’s said he’s exercising his constitutional rights, by which I assume he means his right to remain silent and that he should still be able to coach.

In a civil action, a jury can draw an adverse inference from the assertion of the right to remain silent. Don’t see why LSU can’t do the same, but I haven’t researched this.

He is exercising his rights to not comment. LSU is within their rights to not let him coach.

Seems straight forward to me.

If LSU had any moral compass, they would recognize how likely all their wins are to be stricken from the books, and decline a bid.

But that won't happen because $$$$$$$

[Nugget]

Wade's statement is ridiculous. The school (and NCAA for that matter) have every right to ask him the questions irrespective of his constitutional right against self-incrimination, which has nothing to do with the administrative proceedings involving LSU or the NCAA (and, yes, it is perfectly appropriate in civil litigation to make an "adverse inference" as to what someone's testimony would have been had they not invoked their 5th amendment right to be silent).

On top of which, it is extraordinarily telling that nowhere in his lengthy statement does Wade deny that: (1) there's a wiretap of a phone call in which he's discussing paying for Smart, (2) he had such a phone call, or (3) he paid for Smart.

Any of those would be fireable offenses -- even (1) or (2) would be, irrespective of whether or not (3) happened.

[JasonEvans]

On top of which, it is extraordinarily telling that nowhere in his lengthy statement does Wade deny that: (1) there's a wiretap of a phone call in which he's discussing paying for Smart, (2) he had such a phone call, or (3) he paid for Smart.

Any of those would be fireable offenses -- even (1) or (2) would be, irrespective of whether or not (3) happened.

Ding ding ding... the fact that Wade doesn't even say, "Let's wait until all the facts are known to judge if I did anything wrong" or something like that is very telling. There is no chance the school lets him coach. This statement was basically a legal move so he could later say in court (or in settlement negotiations) that he really, really wanted to coach so he deserves to be paid.

-Jason "the NCAA selection committee is really in a bind when it comes to LSU -- as others have noted, the school should turn down a bid" Evans

[BD80]

...
-Jason "the NCAA selection committee is really in a bind when it comes to LSU -- as others have noted, the school should turn down a bid" Evans

Why? Perhaps I'm a bit jaded by the unc scandal. But LSU isn't going to be in position to play in the Final Four again for a long, long, long time. Why not enjoy it while it lasts.

Then hire the same attorneys as unc, who must have some really sordid pictures of members of the NCAA infractions committee.

[pfrduke]

He is exercising his rights to not comment. LSU is within their rights to not let him coach.

Seems straight forward to me.

I always love when targets of a criminal investigation get confused about what the constitutional right against self-incrimination provides. It provides just that - the right not to have to incriminate yourself in a criminal proceeding. What it most certainly does NOT provide is the right to be free from any other non-criminal consequences that might flow from the exercising the right against self-incrimination. That was a laughable statement.

[golfinesquire]

I always love when targets of a criminal investigation get confused about what the constitutional right against self-incrimination provides. It provides just that - the right not to have to incriminate yourself in a criminal proceeding. What it most certainly does NOT provide is the right to be free from any other non-criminal consequences that might flow from the exercising the right against self-incrimination. That was a laughable statement.

Well, actually what he said was that he was exercising his constitutional right to due process, which is a different thing, and also not quite so laughable. Any statements he makes in these interviews can be used against him later at a trial should he be indicted. I don't know civil law but those statements may also cause trouble for him in a civil suit. His lawyer was right to tell him not to speak with the university at this point. With that said, the university can take the steps it needs to take. Also, I actually thought the statement Wade put out was pretty decent and in line with what an attorney would tell you, which is to say absolutely nothing about the case. Still, if the reports of what is on those tapes are accurate, he does seem scr##ed!

[pfrduke]

Well, actually what he said was that he was exercising his constitutional right to due process, which is a different thing, and also not quite so laughable. Any statements he makes in these interviews can be used against him later at a trial should he be indicted. I don't know civil law but those statements may also cause trouble for him in a civil suit. His lawyer was right to tell him not to speak with the university at this point. With that said, the university can take the steps it needs to take. Also, I actually thought the statement Wade put out was pretty decent and in line with what an attorney would tell you, which is to say absolutely nothing about the case. Still, if the reports of what is on those tapes are accurate, he does seem scr##ed!

I don't think Wade choosing not to incriminate himself is laughable, and I agree that any reasonable lawyer would tell Wade to do the same thing. I think Wade saying he should be immune from the consequences his employer has chosen to impose if he refuses to speak with his employer because of unspecified constitutional rights that don't actually apply to LSU's choice not to allow Wade to continue coaching is laughable.

[golfinesquire]

I don't think Wade choosing not to incriminate himself is laughable, and I agree that any reasonable lawyer would tell Wade to do the same thing. I think Wade saying he should be immune from the consequences his employer has chosen to impose if he refuses to speak with his employer because of unspecified constitutional rights that don't actually apply to LSU's choice not to allow Wade to continue coaching is laughable.

Fair enough.

[Tooold]

ESPN ticker reports that LSU says Wade will continue to stay out as “He has yet to deny any wrongdoing”. This seems clear enough to me. Of course, he has the right to refuse to talk, but the university has the right to suspend him if they suspect he might have done something wrong.

[DangerDevil]

I doubt this is the end of the story but I didn’t expect to see this happen.

“LSU has reinstated Will Wade as its men's basketball coach, Tigers athletic director Joe Alleva announced Sunday night.

"Coach Wade met Friday with University and NCAA officials," Alleva said in a statement. "During those meetings, he answered all questions and denied any wrongdoing in connection with recently reported allegations of irregularities in college basketball recruiting.”

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/26526364/lsu-reinstates-coach-wade-ncaa-meeting

[DarkstarWahoo]

That was a world-class news dump by LSU. Right after Tiger wins the Masters and before the final season premiere of Game of Thrones? SEC ADs are on another level.

[devildeac]

That was a world-class news dump by LSU. Right after Tiger wins the Masters and before the final season premiere of Game of Thrones? SEC ADs are on another level.

And, with L$U's AD, it depends on the water level...

[arnie]

And, with L$U's AD, it depends on the water level...

Ole Joe doesn’t believe court statements and transcripts, but believes stripper statements fed through a UnCheat DA.

[roge054]

Will never forget Alleva saying "the truth doesn't matter".

[BD80]

Will never forget Alleva saying "the truth doesn't matter".

At least he's consistent

[killerleft]

At least he's consistent

I think the actual quote was "It's not about the truth anymore."

[devildeac]

I think the actual quote was "It's not about the truth anymore."

Correct.

https://www.simonandschuster.com/books/Its-Not-About-the-Truth/Don-Yaeger/9781416551492

"Pressler, who has not done an interview since the saga began, has handed his private diary from those three weeks to New York Times bestselling author Don Yaeger, exposing vivid details, including the day Pressler was fired, when the coach asked Athletic Director Joe Alleva why the school "wasn't willing to wait for the truth" to come out. "It's not about the truth anymore," Alleva said to the coach in a signature moment that said it all."

Not meant to resurrect the LAX scandal-only meant to support killerleft's quote.

[HereBeforeCoachK]

I think the actual quote was "It's not about the truth anymore."

Which is so consistent with how Looziana governs itself....and LSU is absolutely an arm of the state gummint. This is a state that allegedly kept the academic scores of the best home grown athletes artificially low so only LSU would recruit them. They wear their corruption down there as a badge of honor.

[DarkstarWahoo]

The NCAA issues have claimed an LSU scalp! Surprisingly, it belongs to Joe Alleva.

https://sports.yahoo.com/reports-lsu-athletic-director-joe-alleva-to-step-down-165638532.html

[arnie]

The NCAA issues have claimed an LSU scalp! Surprisingly, it belongs to Joe Alleva.

https://sports.yahoo.com/reports-lsu-athletic-director-joe-alleva-to-step-down-165638532.html

Triangle sports radio just said “The ship has sailed for Alleva😎. I guess everyone reads DBR.

[richardjackson199]

Huge news.

That's what good lawyers can do for you. Just ask Ol Roy. It pays to cheat.

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/26560848/miller-wade-testify-hoops-trial

But maybe Miller isn't in the clear yet. The lawyer who subpoenaed him called it "systematic cheating at the highest level."

"The evidence establishes very clearly that Sean Miller is paying players at Arizona," Haney said during Friday morning's hearing.

[devildeac]

Huge news.

That's what good lawyers can do for you. Just ask Ol Roy. It pays to cheat.

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/26560848/miller-wade-testify-hoops-trial

But maybe Miller isn't in the clear yet. The lawyer who subpoenaed him called it "systematic cheating at the highest level."

"The evidence establishes very clearly that Sean Miller is paying players at Arizona," Haney said during Friday morning's hearing.

Yea, but if he paid a few regular students, too...

[richardjackson199]

The defense attorney seems to indicate that he can still play FBI wiretap tapes at the trial even though he now can't put Miller and Wade on the stand. But even that is not clear. I still don't think Miller and Wade skate from this. But I didn't think Roy would either. Should be interesting.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/ncaabk/judges-ruling-rocks-college-hoops-world-i-should-have-cheated-my-whole-career/ar-BBW7ajQ?li=BBnba9I&ocid=mailsignout

[devildeac]

The defense attorney seems to indicate that he can still play FBI wiretap tapes at the trial even though he now can't put Miller and Wade on the stand. But even that is not clear. I still don't think Miller and Wade skate from this. But I didn't think Roy would either. Should be interesting.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/ncaabk/judges-ruling-rocks-college-hoops-world-i-should-have-cheated-my-whole-career/ar-BBW7ajQ?li=BBnba9I&ocid=mailsignout

Soooo, maybe you're thinking more punishment for Cal Poly on the way?

:rolleyes::mad:

[NSDukeFan]

Yea, but if he paid a few regular students, too...

Then it would be an academic issue. (Until it’s accreditation time)

[PackMan97]

Apparently UNC has been linked to the second basketball trial...deadspin has the scoop.

https://deadspin.com/the-college-basketball-bribery-scandal-might-be-spreadi-1834250463


This trial didn’t promise to be wildly different from the first one, which involved paying players to go to Adidas schools. But on the second day, prosecution witness Marty Blazer may have significantly widened the scope of this scandal to encompass something even bigger than college basketball: college football. And not only college football, but football programs including Alabama, Michigan, Notre Dame, and Penn State.

Blazer is a former financial advisor based in Pittsburgh. When his illicit attempts to recoup losses from poor investments got him in trouble with the SEC, he became a cooperating witness with the FBI. It was in that role that he met with college basketball coaches, players, and those players’ families, offering them money up front in exchange for a business relationship after they turned pro. On the witness stand today, however, Blazer didn’t just talk about his under-the-table basketball bribes. He also unexpectedly implicated the football programs of a few of the most successful college teams in the country, and also North Carolina.

[devildeac]

Apparently UNC has been linked to the second basketball trial...deadspin has the scoop.

https://deadspin.com/the-college-basketball-bribery-scandal-might-be-spreadi-1834250463

Everybody does it.

Payments made to other "students."

Out of the ncaa's jurisdiction.

Typo.

9F.

:mad:

[PackMan97]

Everybody does it.

Payments made to other "students."

Out of the ncaa's jurisdiction.

Typo.

9F.

:mad:

You missed the important part....let me try again.


He also unexpectedly implicated the football programs of a few of the most successful college teams in the country, and also North Carolina.

[devildeac]

You missed the important part...let me try again.

Oh, I didn't miss that part either;). I took another approach with my reply:D.

[CameronBlue]

Apparently UNC has been linked to the second basketball trial...deadspin has the scoop.

https://deadspin.com/the-college-basketball-bribery-scandal-might-be-spreadi-1834250463

Put another way:

Marty Blazer, a former Pittsburgh-area financial adviser, testified that he made those payments between 2000 and 2013, according to Yahoo! Sports. Blazer did not identify the players he paid.

He testified, according to Yahoo!, that he paid players at six schools, in addition to UNC: Alabama, Michigan, Northwestern, Notre Dame, Penn State and Pittsburgh. Though Blazer’s testimony made news, the revelation of his involvement with former UNC football players is not new.

Read more here: https://www.newsobserver.com/sports/article229628629.html#storylink=cpy

[Hoosnwhat]

Not to cause too much of a raucous as an outsider, but I am curious to know Duke fans' thoughts on the information released during today's trial. Seems to implicate a scheme to recruit Bagley and Zion to other schools, not Duke. Is the thought that Duke then began its recruitment and the players chose to attend Duke over receiving money?

Link to Norlander thread: https://twitter.com/MattNorlander/status/1121186528745742339

[PackMan97]

It certainly seems to suggest that Duke, UK and UNC all have their "methods". Given all the money in college sports, I just can't see that many that have their hands clean.

That said, from a legal standpoint there is a HUGE HUGE difference being caught on tape discussing payments for a specific player, to a specific school, through a specific bag man...and saying "everyone else is doing it including Duke, UK and and UNC". One is going to get you in trouble, the other is likely not to be allowed in court as evidence.

[UrinalCake]

“Under oath, Marty Blazer said he understood Dawkins to be saying: "Duke, UNC and Kentucky will have people in place to pay whatever's necessary for Zion Williamson. Whatever Zion Williamson's family needed, we would be able to step in and [help with money] if it was close."

Ouch. I will say though, I interpreted Dawkins’s original comment differently. Seemed to me like he was saying the other schools - Duke, UNC, UK - have “resources” meaning better programs and facilities. So the only way Clemson could compete with them in recruiting would be to pay the players.

[proelitedota]

Bagley being offered $13,000 is funny to me. No wonder he didn't go to USC. Probably insulted at the amount. :rolleyes:

More likely the assistant coach asked for it just to pocket it.

[MCFinARL]

It certainly seems to suggest that Duke, UK and UNC all have their "methods". Given all the money in college sports, I just can't see that many that have their hands clean.

That said, from a legal standpoint there is a HUGE HUGE difference being caught on tape discussing payments for a specific player, to a specific school, through a specific bag man...and saying "everyone else is doing it including Duke, UK and and UNC". One is going to get you in trouble, the other is likely not to be allowed in court as evidence.

People have been saying this about Duke (and probably UK and UNC as well) for many years. From the aspect of proving anything (or even making an assertion worthy of fuller investigation), the fact that some sketchy types made the same kind of generic assertions without details in wiretaped conversations where they may have had their own aendas doesn't seem much more probative than when the guy sitting next to you at a bar says it.

[MCFinARL]

“Under oath, Marty Blazer said he understood Dawkins to be saying: "Duke, UNC and Kentucky will have people in place to pay whatever's necessary for Zion Williamson. Whatever Zion Williamson's family needed, we would be able to step in and [help with money] if it was close."

Ouch. I will say though, I interpreted Dawkins’s original comment differently. Seemed to me like he was saying the other schools - Duke, UNC, UK - have “resources” meaning better programs and facilities. So the only way Clemson could compete with them in recruiting would be to pay the players.

Plus--the tense is really important here--he said they "will" have these things, i.e., he is speculating about what the competition may do or be, not reporting what he knows for a fact. Could just be a plain old sales pitch--they're going to come up with stuff, so you'd better do so if you want to be in this.

[PackMan97]

, the fact that some sketchy types made the same kind of generic assertions without details in wiretaped conversations where they may have had their own aendas doesn't seem much more probative than when the guy sitting next to you at a bar says it.

...it's also a marketing ploy. Everyone else is doing it (especially the most successful) so you should as well! Don't feel bad about it. They don't get caught, why would you get caught.

[UrinalCake]

There’s a ton of info being tweeted out. Some of it is recordings of wiretapped conversations, some of it is opinions given as testimony, and it’s kind of easy to mix the two together. It does sound like Clemson was prepared to pay Zion and USC was prepared to pay Bagley. At least, that’s what the agents are claiming. Still undetermined whether it was true, whether the players actually accepted anything, and whether Duke was ever involved in anything.

[sagegrouse]

Not to cause too much of a raucous as an outsider, but I am curious to know Duke fans' thoughts on the information released during today's trial. Seems to implicate a scheme to recruit Bagley and Zion to other schools, not Duke. Is the thought that Duke then began its recruitment and the players chose to attend Duke over receiving money?

Link to Norlander thread: https://twitter.com/MattNorlander/status/1121186528745742339

My opinion -- as usual, not buttressed by actual knowledge -- is that the families of the very top players have no need of money. Duke and other schools are allowed to buy insurance policies against injury for players. I believe I read that Duke was allowed to pay $50,000 for one that would pay Zion $8 million or so if he fell below the 16th pick in the NBA draft due to injury. With such guarantees, the family should be able to borrow substantial sums of money against future income. I understand the Williamson family, for example, has moved to the Durham area.

[Billy Dat]

Not to cause too much of a raucous as an outsider, but I am curious to know Duke fans' thoughts on the information released during today's trial. Seems to implicate a scheme to recruit Bagley and Zion to other schools, not Duke. Is the thought that Duke then began its recruitment and the players chose to attend Duke over receiving money?

Link to Norlander thread: https://twitter.com/MattNorlander/status/1121186528745742339

I don't know what Duke does to get these players. I am not naieve enough to think that Duke is completely clean while everyone else is dirty, but I also think that if there was a story with real meat behind it, it would have gotten out because it would be HUGE. I don't think Duke is so illuminati-empowered that it could bury any such story, but maybe I am being naieve in that thought.

(Aside - "Senators and Congressmen don't have men killed, Michael!" "Kay, now who is being naieve?")

What gives me pause is the number of respected college basketball writers who, through their use of retweets and likes on Twitter, endorse the idea that Duke gets a pass and is as dirty as anyone who has proven to be dirty. Is it possible to recruit at the highest level and be completely clean? I hope so, but I don't know. I cross my fingers and follow the news as it breaks.

[hibby91]

I may be naive, but I'm thinking along the same lines as Sage. Why would Zion take $100k to go to KU (or anywhere else) when they've already lost a player and had others questioned. Zion would lose way more than $100k if he was declared ineligible and unable to play. Just because school A offered so much money doesn't automatically mean that Duke had to offer any $$ to get that player. Not all schools and opportunities are equal. Obviously a biased point of view.

I would also be floored if any Duke assistant coach was ever on the phone discussing payments for players with a shoe company runner. Coach K isn't going to throw these men under the bus. They are family. They are not career assistants and likely all have aspirations of being head coaches some day.

Do people think payments are still going on while the trials and investigations are ongoing? That would be bold.

[Billy Dat]

Do people think payments are still going on while the trials and investigations are ongoing? That would be bold.

Are people around these players getting paid without the player, or even the player's immediate family knowing about it? Sure. I don't know how any school could control that? If some runner/agent gave $50K to a player's Aunt, and that Aunt gave some $ to the player's Mom or Dad, how do you stop that? You don't. The only thing that stops it is if a kid is so guaranteed to make huge money that the family avoids it knowing they'll get paid soon enough. But, the money offers probably start really early, before anything is assured, etc.

[UrinalCake]

Zion would lose way more than $100k if he was declared ineligible and unable to play. Just because school A offered so much money doesn't automatically mean that Duke had to offer any $$ to get that player. Not all schools and opportunities are equal. Obviously a biased point of view.

There are two different types of payments going on, and the coverage of this trial has been somewhat sparse and thus hasn't always distinguished between the two. In the first type, shoe companies are paying players or their families to go to affiliated schools. That is the case (allegedly) with Brian Bowen, DeAndre Ayton, and some other names of lesser-known players that have been thrown around. But in the second type, payments are made to coaches (usually assistants) with the understanding that they will steer their players towards the agents when the players graduate. Those tend to be for smaller amounts, though presumably because they will be ongoing and not a one time thing.

But yeah, it doesn't make any sense that Zion or Bagley would accept $100k to go to a school. He has so much more to lose than that, and choosing the right school is much more valuable. Why take $100k and go to a program that is going to waste your talent and have you slip in the draft, when you could go to Duke and develop your talent and literally make millions more because of it? I realize this is a highly biased view. But my interpretation of the earlier comments is in line with MCFinARL. Dawkins is telling Clemson, you're Clemson, if you want to compete with the big boys you're going to have to break the rules. Duke and UNC and Kentucky have way more to offer (meaning the quality and reputation of the programs, not illegal payments). It's believable to me that a young agent trying to start a business would say that to an assistant coach. Same with USC and Bagley.

[Dr. Rosenrosen]

Or how about the idea that perhaps some of these players are in fact shunning the schools that make offers to pay them because they don’t want to be involved with that sort of thing. You know, maybe they are good, ethical people and not worried about the small short term gain knowing there are far greater riches at the end of the [Duke] rainbow.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Or how about the idea that perhaps some of these players are in fact shunning the schools that make offers to pay them because they don’t want to be involved with that sort of thing. You know, maybe they are good, ethical people and not worried about the small short term gain knowing there are far greater riches at the end of the [Duke] rainbow.

That's a lovely fairytale, but I'm not convinced that Duke just attracts the most talented AND most virtuous kids. I would be pleased to be wrong.

[SlapTheFloor]

That's a lovely fairytale, but I'm not convinced that Duke just attracts the most talented AND most virtuous kids. I would be pleased to be wrong.

I, for one, believe that Duke is clean. I wouldn't cheer for our team if I didn't.

[JayZee]

There are two different types of payments going on, and the coverage of this trial has been somewhat sparse and thus hasn't always distinguished between the two. In the first type, shoe companies are paying players or their families to go to affiliated schools. That is the case (allegedly) with Brian Bowen, DeAndre Ayton, and some other names of lesser-known players that have been thrown around. But in the second type, payments are made to coaches (usually assistants) with the understanding that they will steer their players towards the agents when the players graduate. Those tend to be for smaller amounts, though presumably because they will be ongoing and not a one time thing.

But yeah, it doesn't make any sense that Zion or Bagley would accept $100k to go to a school. He has so much more to lose than that, and choosing the right school is much more valuable. Why take $100k and go to a program that is going to waste your talent and have you slip in the draft, when you could go to Duke and develop your talent and literally make millions more because of it? I realize this is a highly biased view. But my interpretation of the earlier comments is in line with MCFinARL. Dawkins is telling Clemson, you're Clemson, if you want to compete with the big boys you're going to have to break the rules. Duke and UNC and Kentucky have way more to offer (meaning the quality and reputation of the programs, not illegal payments). It's believable to me that a young agent trying to start a business would say that to an assistant coach. Same with USC and Bagley.

And one agent mentioned (paraphrasing) that he wanted to keep a certain kid AWAY from UK, because if he went there the dirty agent would lose control of the situation. That makes a lot of sense wrt the the agents placing kids with friendly coaches.

The "program $" argument is the one that worries me the most. Nike has a ton invested in the Duke brand and clearly gets quite a return on their investment. Who cares if Marvin signs with Puma - way more people watched Duke this year than Sacramento. Plus in college, every kid on a team is wearing the same shoe brand. It way better exposure, IMHO, than a pro game where Steph has UA, KD is Nike, Klay is whatever Klay wears. If you like Duke, you see all Nike, all the time.

Now the CW is that Nike just does it better than Adidas. Whether over the line or not, they clearly skirt it - see Bagley AAU, and others.

What's interesting to me is that Duke also gets Adidas guys. Zion was always an Adidas guy. Matt Hurt wore Adidas gear to his official visit. Not sure that cuts any particular way, it's just interesting.

Finally, not matter how clean K and crew may be, they know what's up and what happens in the sewer. That's why I always cringe when he goes that one step too high and mighty.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

I, for one, believe that Duke is clean. I wouldn't cheer for our team if I didn't.

Agreed. But stating that we attract kids because they feel weird about being paid just seems... Too convenient. If it comes out that Duke either paid or was complicit in payment, I will also rethink my interest in college sports.

[Dr. Rosenrosen]

Agreed. But stating that we attract kids because they feel weird about being paid just seems... Too convenient. If it comes out that Duke either paid or was complicit in payment, I will also rethink my interest in college sports.
I didn’t say that’s why we attract certain kids. I said perhaps it’s why certain kids choose us. More specifically, maybe they choose us from among their final list of schools because they and their families get turned off when they are approached by certain individuals working on behalf of certain other schools.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

I didn’t say that’s why we attract certain kids. I said perhaps it’s why certain kids choose us. More specifically, maybe they choose us from among their final list of schools because they and their families get turned off when they are approached by certain individuals working on behalf of certain other schools.

I would love for that to be true.

[UrinalCake]

Strong statement from Bagley’s family via their “Team Bagley” twitter account:

Those gentlemen can talk about whatever they want. Please know Marvin Bagley III nor ANY member of his family has EVER discussed any “recruitment and payment scheme” with either of these gentlemen or anyone for that matter.

[proelitedota]

Strong statement from Bagley’s family via their “Team Bagley” twitter account:

Those gentlemen can talk about whatever they want. Please know Marvin Bagley III nor ANY member of his family has EVER discussed any “recruitment and payment scheme” with either of these gentlemen or anyone for that matter.

To Mister and Misses Williamson:

Wellwe'rewaiting.gif.

[sagegrouse]

To Mister and Misses Williamson:

Wellwe'rewaiting.gif.

Cut the crap! Oops! Excuse, me -- that was rude. Your post is far worse than rumor and innuendo. Moreover, this is a Duke fan site.

[proelitedota]

Cut the crap! Oops! Excuse, me -- that was rude. Your post is far worse than rumor and innuendo. Moreover, this is a Duke fan site.

I am just saying that they should have put out similar statements when the Kansas and Avenatti allegations broke. Especially now that the Avenatti stuff is retroactively shown to be hoax.

[Pghdukie]

I am just saying that they should have put out similar statements when the Kansas and Avenatti allegations broke. Especially now that the Avenatti stuff is retroactively shown to be hoax.

I politely disagree with your views. I believe that when the hearings are completed, evidence is weighed between facts and propaganda, then the families could respond. Replies now are just not merited. They may sell a newspaper or 2, but that's all. JUST MY OPINION.

[Owen Meany]

To Mister and Misses Williamson:

Wellwe'rewaiting.gif.

I'mnotwaitingasyouhavecertainlyearnedthebenefitoft hedoubtoverthedefendantsinquestion.Icanimaginemyri adreasonsyouwouldchoosenottoengagethosemakingbasel essclaimsandopenyourselfuptotheirquestsforattentio n.Itisunfortunatethatsomefeelyouneedtoproveyouhave donenothingwrong.Youdidawonderfuljobraisingyourson andIwillcontinuetothinkthebestofyouintheabsenceofa nyrealevidencethatsuggestsotherwise.gif

[YmoBeThere]

I'mnotwaitingasyouhavecertainlyearnedthebenefitoft hedoubtoverthedefendantsinquestion.Icanimaginemyri adreasonsyouwouldchoosenottoengagethosemakingbasel essclaimsandopenyourselfuptotheirquestsforattentio n.Itisunfortunatethatsomefeelyouneedtoproveyouhave donenothingwrong.Youdidawonderfuljobraisingyourson andIwillcontinuetothinkthebestofyouintheabsenceofa nyrealevidencethatsuggestsotherwise.gif

So close, but that one extra space....

[PackMan97]

Agreed. But stating that we attract kids because they feel weird about being paid just seems... Too convenient. If it comes out that Duke either paid or was complicit in payment, I will also rethink my interest in college sports.

I believe there was been at least one case where the intermediary said the family demanded money in return for recruitment and then kept the money themselves with the family none the wiser.

sounds like some real shady folks.

[Owen Meany]

Merle Code is recorded stating that Arizona was giving Nas Little $150,000 and that Adidas needed to match this to get him to go to Miami (this is the exact same individual who made claims about Williamson that made headlines). Someone involved (his AAU coach, perhaps) later admitted that this was not true and that the family was not involved. So we know that the person that first mentioned Zion Williamson made a very similar (but more specific and involving a very large $ amount) claim that was false about another player.

These guys are hustlers who are trying to inflate their own importance and make themselves seem indispensable. The fact that they claim they are matching offers (or even making offers) means nothing absent other proof. It is very possible (likely, I think) that they are bidding against themselves in order to get the highest payday for themselves. There is no reason to believe them and every reason to doubt them. Unfortunately, most people who are accused will not be able to prove that they are falsely accused. The defendants and their attorney's goal is to sow the slightest seed of doubt and they will be more than happy to raise questions about anyone else in order to do so, regardless of the veracity of their claims.

[proelitedota]

I'mnotwaitingasyouhavecertainlyearnedthebenefitoft hedoubtoverthedefendantsinquestion.Icanimaginemyri adreasonsyouwouldchoosenottoengagethosemakingbasel essclaimsandopenyourselfuptotheirquestsforattentio n.Itisunfortunatethatsomefeelyouneedtoproveyouhave donenothingwrong.Youdidawonderfuljobraisingyourson andIwillcontinuetothinkthebestofyouintheabsenceofa nyrealevidencethatsuggestsotherwise.gif

Yougetaspork.gif

[Owen Meany]

Found this linked on Adam Rowe's twitter page. From Nathan Fenno's (LA Times reporter) twitter account (https://twitter.com/nathanfenno):



In a statement to the @latimes, former USC associate head coach Tony Bland's attorney lambasted Marty Blazer's testimony at the basketball corruption trial claiming Bland accepted a $13K bribe in order to help pay Marvin Bagley to attend USC.

“False, fabricated, fake, perjurious. Somehow the government never suggested to me that this occurred or asked Tony to plead to it — because it didn’t occur. Leave Marvin Bagley out of this garbage.”


The Marvin Bagley/Tony Bland allegation Marty Blazer made isn't referenced (or even hinted at) in the complaint, indictment, plea agreement or statement Bland read to the court when he pleaded guilty.


I previously detailed how bank records show Christian Dawkins deposited most of the $13K in his bank account. People familiar with the matter tell the @latimes the remainder of the money was spent in cash at a Gucci store and club in Las Vegas.



Nothing said by these individuals is worth even a grain of salt and no one should be asked to prove they are lying.

[JasonEvans]

Ouch, some really damning wiretaps with folks talking about on Sean Miller (https://sports.yahoo.com/arizona-sean-miller-paid-players-wiretaps-federal-hoops-corruption-case-153718418.html) in court this morning.


On the call, Richardson tells Dawkins that Arizona head coach Sean Miller was paying, or had promised to pay, $10,000 a month for Deandre Ayton, who would go on to become the No. 1 pick in the 2018 NBA draft.

Amid the seven wiretaps played in court during the college basketball bribery trial, there were multiple inferences of Miller himself personally paying Ayton.

Oh, the "Richardson" in these wiretaps is Emanuel “Book” Richardson who was Arizona's Associate Head Coach at the time. So, to be clear, there is a wiretap in which Sean Miller's top assistant coach talks openly about payments Miller is making to several top players (Ayton, Rawle Alkins, Jahvon Quinnerly).

-Jason "the fact that Arizona has not yet fired Miller is appalling" Evans

[UrinalCake]

There has been so much happening in this trial over the past week or so. Matt Norlander and Adam Zagoria are the best sources for information over Twitter. It does sound like there was an element of the agents making up stories in order to sell to their potential investors. One ESPN article basically stated that their business model was not based around paying players, it was based on swindling money out of these investors, and the way they did that was to claim to have relationships with basketball coaches. Then they would either keep the money themselves, or in some cases they would pay part of the money to assistant coaches to steer players to their agency. There have been cases where the players actually did receive money, but I haven't seen any evidence that Bagley or Zion or any other Duke players fall into this category.

Arizona is a whole different situation. There is evidence all over the place that Miller and assistant coach Book Richardson took money. There have been wiretaps and video recordings shown in court of them taking money. So yeah, they're in deep and I don't see any way they escape this unscathed.

[JasonEvans]

Arizona is a whole different situation. There is evidence all over the place that Miller and assistant coach Book Richardson took money. There have been wiretaps and video recordings shown in court of them taking money. So yeah, they're in deep and I don't see any way they escape this unscathed.

LSU is also in deep poo-poo.

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/26647372/miller-paid-10k-per-month-ayton

During one of the recordings, Richardson also told the undercover FBI agents that LSU coach Will Wade attempted to hire him. At the time, Arizona and LSU were involved in a recruiting war for forward Nazreon Reid of Asbury Park, New Jersey.

According to Richardson, Wade told him, "Look, there's a deal in place. I got $300,000 for him."

Richardson said he responded, "S---, give me half and I'll make sure the kid goes there."

[Nugget]

FWIW, this was at least mildly heartening:

"Christian Dawkins testified today: 'I wanted [Brian Bowen] to go to Michigan State. Tom Izzo told me flat out they WEREN'T going to pay him.'"

https://twitter.com/AdamZagoria/status/1123631194837528576

[proelitedota]

2nd year in a row UNC might get a top 10 player that was going to Arizona. Josh Green is a 5* SF.

[JayZee]

FWIW, this was at least mildly heartening:

"Christian Dawkins testified today: 'I wanted [Brian Bowen] to go to Michigan State. Tom Izzo told me flat out they WEREN'T going to pay him.'"

https://twitter.com/AdamZagoria/status/1123631194837528576

Lets assume that a few programs don't pay players - MSU, Duke, what have you. Still, this confirms that even those programs/coaches are complicit in the game.

This is why we need a NCAA hoops commissioner, or something like that, so that there is a chance to bring everything out in the open, and address the underlying forces that have helped create/facilitate the black market for players.

If, out of this trial, we get some sort of truth/amnesty process and a move towards compensating players directly and addressing their needs/rights, I would be pleased. Right now the wrong people are getting over compensated - runners, slimy agents, NCAA bureaucrats.

[Dr. Rosenrosen]

Lets assume that a few programs don't pay players - MSU, Duke, what have you. Still, this confirms that even those programs/coaches are complicit in the game.

This is why we need a NCAA hoops commissioner, or something like that, so that there is a chance to bring everything out in the open, and address the underlying forces that have helped create/facilitate the black market for players.

If, out of this trial, we get some sort of truth/amnesty process and a move towards compensating players directly and addressing their needs/rights, I would be pleased. Right now the wrong people are getting over compensated - runners, slimy agents, NCAA bureaucrats.
Right. Izzo said no way but he obviously didn’t tell anyone else about this slime ball. Why didn’t he report him? Or maybe that’s part of the problem... to whom do you report a slime ball like that? The slimy NCAA?

[Kfanarmy]

Lets assume that a few programs don't pay players - MSU, Duke, what have you. Still, this confirms that even those programs/coaches are complicit in the game.

This is why we need a NCAA hoops commissioner, or something like that, so that there is a chance to bring everything out in the open, and address the underlying forces that have helped create/facilitate the black market for players.

If, out of this trial, we get some sort of truth/amnesty process and a move towards compensating players directly and addressing their needs/rights, I would be pleased. Right now the wrong people are getting over compensated - runners, slimy agents, NCAA bureaucrats.

They are directly compensated unless they are non scholarship players

[Troublemaker]

2nd year in a row UNC might get a top 10 player that was going to Arizona. Josh Green is a 5* SF.

Yep. It doesn't matter how well Duke recruits uncommitted high schoolers if we allow our rivals to catch up via grad transfers, decommits, and regular transfers. Josh Green would be a terrific 2-guard that can enjoy vegemite with Jack.

[Dr. Rosenrosen]

2nd year in a row UNC might get a top 10 player that was going to Arizona. Josh Green is a 5* SF.
They just had a recruiting/transfer binge and they’re zeroing in on another transfer from William & Mary. Would they even have room if Green de-committed?

[JayZee]

They are directly compensated unless they are non scholarship players

Not compensated enough as evidenced by the robust black market.

[UrinalCake]

From Adam Zagoria’s Twitter, describing Christian Dawkins’s testimony. Jeff D’Angelo is an undercover FBI agent posing as an investor in Dawkins’s business:



Dawkins also testified that he and former Creighton asst Preston Murphy made up a fake player named Marcus Phillips at Creighton in order to take $$ from Jeff D'Angelo:

"He was just a random person that we made up. Marcus Phillips has never played for Creighton."

[proelitedota]

They just had a recruiting/transfer binge and they’re zeroing in on another transfer from William & Mary. Would they even have room if Green de-committed?

They have 3 scholarships open. so yes.

With that said, not sure if Green wants to follow the Nassir Little path.

[golfinesquire]

Right. Izzo said no way but he obviously didn’t tell anyone else about this slime ball. Why didn’t he report him? Or maybe that’s part of the problem... to whom do you report a slime ball like that? The slimy NCAA?

Nobody likes a rat.

[907bluedevils]

De Sousa wins the appeal at Kansas and will be eligible this year
http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/26814448/jayhawks-de-sousa-wins-appeal-eligible-play

[dudog84]

Didn't have the time/expertise to search for the older thread where this would fit better, so putting it here. If someone/mod wants to move it or start a new thread, please do.

This is about as scandalous as the cheating. Not sure which is worse, Emmert making $3.9M or the PAC12 commish making over $5M.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/ncaabk/amid-backdrop-of-scandal-ncaa-president-mark-emmert-makes-dollar39-million/ar-AABOysE?li=BBnb7Kz

Pretty good gig if you can get it.

[UrinalCake]

NCAA says sanctions coming for “at least” six programs.

Link (https://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/at-least-six-college-basketball-programs-will-be-notified-of-major-ncaa-violations-by-this-summer/)

[UrinalCake]

So who are the six schools? My guess would be Arizona, USC, OK State (the three schools whose assistants were indicted) plus Kansas, NC State for the Dennis Smith payments, and Louisville for Brian Bowen.

EDIT: I forgot Chuck Person of Auburn was also among the original indictments. Maybe include them as well.

[SavDukeGrad]

So who are the six schools? My guess would be Arizona, USC, OK State (the three schools whose assistants were indicted) plus Kansas, NC State for the Dennis Smith payments, and Louisville for Brian Bowen.

EDIT: I forgot Chuck Person of Auburn was also among the original indictments. Maybe include them as well.

What about LSU?

[Tazman10]

Not compensated enough as evidenced by the robust black market.

I always like this talk about paying players.

#1 Does Zion get paid the same as Nassir Little? If so, then how does that stop some shoe company say “hey Zion go here and we will give you another $50,000.” If you pay them all the same amount that leaves the door open for extra payments. Plus, how does one tell that mom’s brand new car isn’t from his original pay. This would just create a total problem with auditing any records to try to prove extra money is involved.

#2 Each school pays the players what they can. Well Oklahoma State has the oil barren and their starting 5 gets paid a combine $2.5 million. What school can compete with that? Also the richest 10 schools will compete for the title each year. Clemson won’t compete and kiss that football program good bye. But will Texas Tech ever have another chance at a title?

#3 Guys like Zion get paid more than guys like Little. How much and who decides that? What about guys like Morant, he is going to go at #2 in the draft but no way he gets as much as Reddish. How much of a problem is that?

Do they do away with scholarships and make the kids pay for school? They should, they are no longer students, they are employees.

Paying the players will not solve any problems. As a CPA, the numbers will not work out. I know one CPA that makes $60,000 a year and another one who makes $90,000 a year. How the heck does the market work? The market is the story you want to create but it is not true.

That talk is foolish.

[PackMan97]

Do away with school and actually make a real minor league that can pay what players are worth.

[Tazman10]

Well that is what the D league was suppose to do. I think this “market” is telling us something. That it does not exist. If it did, the D league would pay more. Nobody has the funds for this “market.” The NBA owners don’t see it. I think Mr. Bilas should be asked to tell us where this “market” is.

[HereBeforeCoachK]

Do away with school and actually make a real minor league that can pay what players are worth.

Perhaps you should consider that the sport of college basketball's worth is mostly vested in the name on the front of the jerseys, and all the inherent fan bases and traditions that go along with it. Doing away with college sports will not magically translate into "worth" for whatever minor league you are dreaming of. No one's gonna care to pay to see "the Spartanburg Spartans" against the "Greensboro Greenies" or what have you.

[YmoBeThere]

No one's gonna care to pay to see "the Spartanburg Spartans" against the "Greensboro Greenies" or what have you.

Will they serve cold beer?

[75Crazie]

Perhaps you should consider that the sport of college basketball's worth is mostly vested in the name on the front of the jerseys, and all the inherent fan bases and traditions that go along with it. Doing away with college sports will not magically translate into "worth" for whatever minor league you are dreaming of. No one's gonna care to pay to see "the Spartanburg Spartans" against the "Greensboro Greenies" or what have you.
So what? College football and basketball will still exist … just as college baseball does, in tandem with the baseball minor leagues. Will college football and basketball be ruined if the best teenage players are siphoned away from college and into a minor league? I think Duke-State, Ohio State-Michigan, USC-UCLA, whatever, will be just as intense with that system. The only thing that would be missing, probably, is the ridiculous amount of money and attention that ESPN and others pour into the colleges … and many of us think that would be a good thing.

[HereBeforeCoachK]

So what? College football and basketball will still exist … just as college baseball does, in tandem with the baseball minor leagues. Will college football and basketball be ruined if the best teenage players are siphoned away from college and into a minor league? I think Duke-State, Ohio State-Michigan, USC-UCLA, whatever, will be just as intense with that system. The only thing that would be missing, probably, is the ridiculous amount of money and attention that ESPN and others pour into the colleges … and many of us think that would be a good thing.

You seemed to have totally missed the point I was making to PackMan. I never said anything about college being ruined.....quite the opposite in fact. If the best 5% of the talent bypasses college.....the college game will still be as big - and still just as much money will be "poured into it" because there are still going to be alums, and local fans, who've followed their team for years/decades/generations. THATS where the money is.....not in any particular group of players or even any particular generation of players.

And there still won't be much interest in any D or G League really.....

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

You seemed to have totally missed the point I was making to PackMan. I never said anything about college being ruined....quite the opposite in fact. If the best 5% of the talent bypasses college....the college game will still be as big - and still just as much money will be "poured into it" because there are still going to be alums, and local fans, who've followed their team for years/decades/generations. THATS where the money is....not in any particular group of players or even any particular generation of players.

And there still won't be much interest in any D or G League really....

Not much interest in a D League or G League sure. But can you imagine the interest in a DOG League?

*head explodes*

[camion]

Not much interest in a D League or G League sure. But can you imagine the interest in a DOG League?

*head explodes*

I believe there's a documentary out there.

Linky 1 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nniFq5k9QOU)

Linky 2 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jvf0WWxrYRM)

[BD80]

I always like this talk about paying players.

...

Another hijack. I think Hitler will get 13 mpg and will drink Grolsch ale after games. Can we now get back to the thread topic? There are dozens of threads on paying players one could try tp revive that the rest of us could ignore.

[CrazyNotCrazie]

Not much interest in a D League or G League sure. But can you imagine the interest in a DOG League?

*head explodes*

I actually once interviewed a candidate for Duke who played in the GOD league:

http://www.myhsal.com/Playoffs/basketball-boys-v

He was not being recruited for basketball.

[BD80]

Not much interest in a D League or G League sure. But can you imagine the interest in a DOG League?

*head explodes*


I actually once interviewed a candidate for Duke who played in the GOD league:

http://www.myhsal.com/Playoffs/basketball-boys-v

...


I'm a dyslexic atheist: I don't believe in DOG.

[thedukelamere]

I actually once interviewed a candidate for Duke who played in the GOD league:

Did the Plumlees compete in the GOD League while playing for Christ School? I seem to recall an article about them winning a championship over the Abraham Apostles. *ducks*

Back to the topic at hand; seems weird that they would notify the 6 schools at different times... The two "high profile" schools (Zona and Kansas, IMO) will know by early July and the other 4 will be notified later in the summer? I get it that the NCAA is gonna NCAA, but you'd think that something that tarnishes their brand would be ripped off like a band-aid rather than prolonging it. Also, outside of maybe Creighton, the term "high-profile" applies to a lot of the other programs mentioned... I'd consider USC, the Cards, and maybe even State to be at that national profile, albeit not exactly blue blood status.

[BD80]

Did the Plumlees compete in the GOD League while playing for Christ School? I seem to recall an article about them winning a championship over the Abraham Apostles. *ducks*

Back to the topic at hand; seems weird that they would notify the 6 schools at different times... The two "high profile" schools (Zona and Kansas, IMO) will know by early July and the other 4 will be notified later in the summer? I get it that the NCAA is gonna NCAA, but you'd think that something that tarnishes their brand would be ripped off like a band-aid rather than prolonging it. Also, outside of maybe Creighton, the term "high-profile" applies to a lot of the other programs mentioned... I'd consider USC, the Cards, and maybe even State to be at that national profile, albeit not exactly blue blood status.

Sounds like a prosecutor trying to line up defendants for trial in an order that will bring out the most evidence, support the most and most severe charges, and bring down the most defendants.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

I'm a dyslexic atheist: I don't believe in DOG.

Do you believe in Shammgod?

[BD80]

Do you believe in Shammgod?

On that, I'd have to say I'm amphibious ...

[thedukelamere]

Do you believe in Shammgod?

Not as a deity, but he was a wizard.

[Tazman10]

Another hijack. I think Hitler will get 13 mpg and will drink Grolsch ale after games. Can we now get back to the thread topic? There are dozens of threads on paying players one could try tp revive that the rest of us could ignore.

LOL, now I get to say “pay attention.” Those threads are closed. And some made refence to it here.

When ever, on this site, has a thread never been high jacked. Attention is not a strong suit for about 85% of the population.

[PackMan97]

No one's gonna care to pay to see "the Spartanburg Spartans" against the "Greensboro Greenies" or what have you.

They will if it's Zion, Reddish and Barrett vs Morant, White and Little.

People watch the college game because of the players. Do you think anyone would give a poop about Carolina Basketball if they had bad players? LOL! Ya right.

[Acymetric]

They will if it's Zion, Reddish and Barrett vs Morant, White and Little.

People watch the college game because of the players. Do you think anyone would give a poop about Carolina Basketball if they had bad players? LOL! Ya right.

I have mixed thoughts on the whole thing, but even if we took the top 10% of talent out of college basketball, it wouldn't mean all we were left with is bad players. There are too many good college players with no real NBA/professional future to count.

[75Crazie]

They will if it's Zion, Reddish and Barrett vs Morant, White and Little.

People watch the college game because of the players. Do you think anyone would give a poop about Carolina Basketball if they had bad players? LOL! Ya right.
Again, I do not understand the argument. I believe there are many, many people who watch college basketball and have little to no interest in professional basketball. I think college allegiance is a much higher factor for the interest of the game than the talent level of the players.

[Acymetric]

Again, I do not understand the argument. I believe there are many, many people who watch college basketball and have little to no interest in professional basketball. I think college allegiance is a much higher factor for the interest of the game than the talent level of the players.

There is theoretically a threshold where if talent in college were depleted enough people would lose interest, but even a full minor league skimming off the top 100 players from each class doesn't get us there (and I don't think we'll ever see the G-League or any competitor draw that many college-aged players).

[dball]

No one's gonna care to pay to see "the Spartanburg Spartans" against the "Greensboro Greenies" or what have you.

Actually, it was the Greenville Greenies (minor league baseball)

[madscavenger]

………………….. I think Hitler will get 13 mpg and will drink Grolsch ale after games......

i think you meant kilometers per liter, and perhops Kölsch.

[House P]

Those threads are closed. And some made refence to it here.

When ever, on this site, has a thread never been high jacked. Attention is not a strong suit for about 85% of the population.

Here is a "Pay the Players" thread which appears to be open. Nothing has been posted there since Oct 2017, but this seems like a good place to continue the discussion.


https://forums.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showthread.php?26083-The-Pay-the-Players-Debate

As for the latest news from the NCAA, I gave up paying attention to the NCAA investigation/enforcement process after the UNC case. However, is it safe to assume that any school which is notified of allegations in July 2019 will be able to delay the process in a way that prevents the case being resolved before the end of the 2019-20 season?

[budwom]

Here is a "Pay the Players" thread which appears to be open. Nothing has been posted there since Oct 2017, but this seems like a good place to continue the discussion.


https://forums.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showthread.php?26083-The-Pay-the-Players-Debate

As for the latest news from the NCAA, I gave up paying attention to the NCAA investigation/enforcement process after the UNC case. However, is it safe to assume that any school which is notified of allegations in July 2019 will be able to delay the process in a way that prevents the case being resolved before the end of the 2019-20 season?

yup, it's a fools errand to try to predict what the dolts at the NCAA will do...just a pointless exercise. Will any of these teams use unc's playbook and simply delay, obfuscate, lie and obstruct via an army of lawyers?

[AGDukesky]

Again, I do not understand the argument. I believe there are many, many people who watch college basketball and have little to no interest in professional basketball. I think college allegiance is a much higher factor for the interest of the game than the talent level of the players.

Agreed. I watch some NBA but I care about college basketball. As long as the play is competitive, I don’t care how it stacks up to the NBA. The only thing that would drive me away is if Duke was prevented from being on an even playing field/court...

[Ima Facultiwyfe]

They will if it's Zion, Reddish and Barrett vs Morant, White and Little.

People watch the college game because of the players. Do you think anyone would give a poop about Carolina Basketball if they had bad players? LOL! Ya right.

Of course they would! Haven't you ever watched sheep being herded? They stick together and go where they're told, bless their hearts.
Love, Ima

[devildeac]

yup, it's a fools errand to try to predict what the dolts at the NCAA will do...just a pointless exercise. Will any of these teams use unc's playbook and simply delay, obfuscate, lie and obstruct via an army of lawyers?

You forgot "typo." :mad:

[75Crazie]

Agreed. I watch some NBA but I care about college basketball. As long as the play is competitive, I don’t care how it stacks up to the NBA. The only thing that would drive me away is if Duke was prevented from being on an even playing field/court...
But … we have not competed on an even playing field in years, probably decades. After all, Duke imposes some sort of academic standards. That is why I refuse to acknowledge uNC as a rival, and it gripes me no end to hear others talk about the "rivalry".

[UrinalCake]

In the story that will never end, former Arizona assistant Book Richardson claims he paid a high school coach $40k to fabricate a class on the transcript of Rawlee Alkins so that he would remain eligible. As far as I know, this is a new allegation completely separate from everything else that has previously come out on Arizona from the FBI’s case. At this point you have to wonder what exactly Arizona has to do for the NCAA to take any action. There have been FBI wiretaps of their assistant coach admitting he paid for players, yet nothing. Perhaps they are actually investigating and simply haven’t made anything public, but geez.

Link (https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/27595244/ex-zona-assistant-said-paid-hs-coach-40k)

As an aside, remember during the summer when some NCAA insider claimed that six schools would be receiving notices of allegations by August? Whatever happened with that? So far NC State is the only one we know of.

[Dr. Rosenrosen]

In the story that will never end, former Arizona assistant Book Richardson claims he paid a high school coach $40k to fabricate a class on the transcript of Rawlee Alkins so that he would remain eligible. As far as I know, this is a new allegation completely separate from everything else that has previously come out on Arizona from the FBI’s case. At this point you have to wonder what exactly Arizona has to do for the NCAA to take any action. There have been FBI wiretaps of their assistant coach admitting he paid for players, yet nothing. Perhaps they are actually investigating and simply haven’t made anything public, but geez.

Link (https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/27595244/ex-zona-assistant-said-paid-hs-coach-40k)

As an aside, remember during the summer when some NCAA insider claimed that six schools would be receiving notices of allegations by August? Whatever happened with that? So far NC State is the only one we know of.
Maybe the “insider” was actually Manalishi?

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Maybe the “insider” was actually Manalishi?

Ouch!
#throwbackthursday

[UrinalCake]

LOL, I followed the whole Manalishi storyline for months. It provided some great entertainment, but the ending was a disappointment.

In this case though, it was an actual NCAA official who made this claim, on the record. Here (https://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/at-least-six-college-basketball-programs-will-be-notified-of-major-ncaa-violations-by-this-summer/) is the link I originally posted back in June. And he said the NOA’s were coming by “early July.” My guess is that the schools involved simply haven’t made it public that they have received them. They are under no obligation to do so, and maybe they don’t want their recruits to bail before practice starts, although anyone can file a FOI request with them.

[Dr. Rosenrosen]

LOL, I followed the whole Manalishi storyline for months. It provided some great entertainment, but the ending was a disappointment.

In this case though, it was an actual NCAA official who made this claim, on the record. Here (https://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/at-least-six-college-basketball-programs-will-be-notified-of-major-ncaa-violations-by-this-summer/) is the link I originally posted back in June. And he said the NOA’s were coming by “early July.” My guess is that the schools involved simply having made it public that they have received them. They are under no obligation to do so, and maybe they don’t want their recruits to bail before practice starts, although anyone can file a FOI request with them.
If the schools are public universities...

[dudog84]

Now Gilbert Arenas accusing Duke. At least it's men of impeccable character (Avenatti, etc.) that are making the accusations. Supported by Stephen A. Smith:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/ncaabk/gilbert-arenas-duke-has-paid-players-dollar200000-to-play-there/ar-AAHdvTS?li=BBnb7Kz

[left_hook_lacey]

Now Gilbert Arenas accusing Duke. At least it's men of impeccable character (Avenatti, etc.) that are making the accusations. Supported by Stephen A. Smith:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/ncaabk/gilbert-arenas-duke-has-paid-players-dollar200000-to-play-there/ar-AAHdvTS?li=BBnb7Kz

How would Arenas know? Or is he just going off hear say in the news?

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

How would Arenas know? Or is he just going off hear say in the news?

Avenatti must have told him.

*eye roll*

[UrinalCake]

Arenas still salty over losing to us in the 2001 final.

[Dr. Rosenrosen]

You can’t spell Stephen A. Smith without an A, an S, and another S.

[proelitedota]

If Gilbert Arenas wants to double down on his claims, he should at least name the players.

[MCFinARL]

Now Gilbert Arenas accusing Duke. At least it's men of impeccable character (Avenatti, etc.) that are making the accusations. Supported by Stephen A. Smith:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/ncaabk/gilbert-arenas-duke-has-paid-players-dollar200000-to-play-there/ar-AAHdvTS?li=BBnb7Kz

Well, it's not clear Stephen A. is supporting Arenas' specific Duke allegations rather than his general point--though that is a pretty subtle distinction in the twitterverse.

What I find interesting about Arenas' tweet is that he seems to be saying no one would go to Duke rather than Kentucky if they weren't paid to do so. So this is the level of unbiased analysis we are dealing with.

[UrinalCake]

What I find interesting about Arenas' tweet is that he seems to be saying no one would go to Duke rather than Kentucky if they weren't paid to do so. So this is the level of unbiased analysis we are dealing with.

Agreed; the notion that there is no reason to go to Duke if you weren’t being paid is patently absurd. Even if you don’t believe the players place any value on education whatsoever, our track record for getting guys into the league speaks for itself. If Arenas had said that players at both UK and Duke we’re getting paid then at least his accusation would make sense.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Agreed; the notion that there is no reason to go to Duke if you weren’t being paid is patently absurd. Even if you don’t believe the players place any value on education whatsoever, our track record for getting guys into the league speaks for itself. If Arenas had said that players at both UK and Duke we’re getting paid then at least his accusation would make sense.

I thought saying players choosing Duke and not getting paid was absurd clearly implied that UK players were obviously getting paid.

[Steven43]

Arenas still salty over losing to us in the 2001 final.
You are 100% correct. He (Arenas) has had a chip on his shoulder about Duke ever since his Arizona team lost to the Blue Devils in the 2001 Final. Losing that game must have really traumatized him.

Regardless, Gilbert Arenas is a punk who has ZERO credibility. I can’t believe Stephen Smith is dumb enough to give him a platform on which to spew his lies and otter inanities.

https://ftw.usatoday.com/2015/10/gilbert-arenas-javaris-crittenton-gun-showdown-caron-butler-book-tuff-juice-excerpt-i-play-with-guns-washington-wizards

[Dr. Rosenrosen]

You are 100% correct. He (Arenas) has had a chip on his shoulder about Duke ever since his Arizona team lost to the Blue Devils in the 2001 Final. Losing that game must have really traumatized him.

Regardless, Gilbert Arenas is a punk who has ZERO credibility. I can’t believe Stephen Smith is dumb enough to give him a platform on which to spew his lies and otter inanities.

https://ftw.usatoday.com/2015/10/gilbert-arenas-javaris-crittenton-gun-showdown-caron-butler-book-tuff-juice-excerpt-i-play-with-guns-washington-wizards
I’m surprised that anyone is surprised by Stephen A. Smith’s actions. Yes, he is dumb enough and more than happy to say anything that will get him attention. It’s what he does.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

You are 100% correct. He (Arenas) has had a chip on his shoulder about Duke ever since his Arizona team lost to the Blue Devils in the 2001 Final. Losing that game must have really traumatized him.

Regardless, Gilbert Arenas is a punk who has ZERO credibility. I can’t believe Stephen Smith is dumb enough to give him a platform on which to spew his lies and otter inanities.

https://ftw.usatoday.com/2015/10/gilbert-arenas-javaris-crittenton-gun-showdown-caron-butler-book-tuff-juice-excerpt-i-play-with-guns-washington-wizards

But otters are utterly adorable.

[devildeac]

You can’t spell Stephen A. Smith without an A, an S, and another S.

You win DBR and the internet for a day. Did you think of that after another bowl of PR%F ice cream? ;)

[DukieInKansas]

Well, it's not clear Stephen A. is supporting Arenas' specific Duke allegations rather than his general point--though that is a pretty subtle distinction in the twitterverse.

What I find interesting about Arenas' tweet is that he seems to be saying no one would go to Duke rather than Kentucky if they weren't paid to do so. So this is the level of unbiased analysis we are dealing with.


Maybe he meant that Duke paid players by putting a dollar value to the education for a 4 year player? It would make even more sense if he said *nc, instead of Kentucky, as he's judging the value of the education since Duke players go to real classes? Just trying to give him the benefit of the doubt. ;)

[Dr. Rosenrosen]

You win DBR and the internet for a day. Did you think of that after another bowl of PR%F ice cream? ;)
It was 8:30 in the morning! That was a caffeine induced brainstorm. :cool:

[mkirsh]

Arenas still salty over losing to us in the 2001 final.

And about being cut from Team USA in 2006

That said, I think he is actually right. Duke out-of-state tuition is ~$58k per year, so any four year player receives over $200k in in-kind payment (however this is only ~$120k over the cost of UK with its ~$27k out-of-state tuition)

[Billy Dat]

And about being cut from Team USA in 2006

Oh yeah...https://www.espn.com/nba/news/story?id=2743071

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Oh yeah...https://www.espn.com/nba/news/story?id=2743071

Wow. He really is a jerk.

[Billy Dat]

@MattNorlander
BREAKING—The NCAA rejected Oklahoma State’s appeal and has banned the MBB program from the 2022 postseason, sources told
@CBSSports. This is the first postseason ban handed down by the NCAA in relation to the 2017 FBI investigation into bribery/fraud in CBB recruiting.

[tommy]

@MattNorlander
BREAKING—The NCAA rejected Oklahoma State’s appeal and has banned the MBB program from the 2022 postseason, sources told
@CBSSports. This is the first postseason ban handed down by the NCAA in relation to the 2017 FBI investigation into bribery/fraud in CBB recruiting.

They staved it off for awhile so they could have their shot with Cade. Which they got. They should shut up and take their medicine.

[JasonEvans]

They staved it off for awhile so they could have their shot with Cade. Which they got. They should shut up and take their medicine.

Okie St. is seen as a bubble team this year (KenPom preseason rank #37, Torvik #42). Them being suspended from the tourney this year may not matter anyway.

[CameronBornAndBred]

Okie St. is seen as a bubble team this year (KenPom preseason rank #37, Torvik #42). Them being suspended from the tourney this year may not matter anyway.

It will matter to the players and the fans. How fun is it to watch or play for a team that you know is doing squat at the end of the year?

[BigWayne]

Another chapter about to unfold.

https://www.espn.com/college-sports/story/_/id/33457186/source-lsu-receives-notice-allegations-tied-men-basketball-football-programs-wade-scrutiny

[dukewolf]

Another chapter about to unfold.

https://www.espn.com/college-sports/story/_/id/33457186/source-lsu-receives-notice-allegations-tied-men-basketball-football-programs-wade-scrutiny

I simply don't get what the point of all this is. Sure the shoe companies were arranging payments all over the place. EVERY STAR got money. Everyone. NIL and the TP fixes this problem and today this would not be a violation if structured properly.

Now can you sanction LSU for Wade being an arse?

[JasonEvans]

I simply don't get what the point of all this is. Sure the shoe companies were arranging payments all over the place. EVERY STAR got money. Everyone. NIL and the TP fixes this problem and today this would not be a violation if structured properly.

Now can you sanction LSU for Wade being an arse?

Wade apparently broke the rules. Just because the rules have since changed does not change that. What's more, Wade allegedly played a large role in arranging payments to players, which would be against even the current NIL rules.

And your allegation that "EVERY STAR got money" is simply not true. I know for a fact that there are high school hoops stars who were/are turned off by programs that illegally offer money. I have a friend who is a financial adviser to many successful basketball players and he says he advises all of them not to risk their reputation and eligibility for relatively small immediate gratification (compared to what they will earn in just a few short months when they turn pro).

[grad_devil]

I simply don't get what the point of all this is. Sure the shoe companies were arranging payments all over the place. EVERY STAR got money. Everyone. NIL and the TP fixes this problem and today this would not be a violation if structured properly.


Objection. Assumes facts not in evidence.

[camion]

Objection. Assumes facts not in evidence.

Yep.

In my experience the "everybody does it" argument is generally put forth in support of ones who were caught doing it.

[TruBlu]

Could not spread flames.

[JasonEvans]

Could not spread flames.

No problem. I took care of it for you ;)