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JBDuke
02-23-2019, 08:17 PM
Put your post-game thoughts here.

scottdude8
02-23-2019, 08:18 PM
My thoughts on tonight:

—I thought Coach K might start AOC tonight to spread the floor, and boy was that a great choice. His performance is a great sign for this team moving forward, obviously. I was more surprised to see Javin start over Marques: as well as Javin played defensively, Marques has superior hands offensively, and might have finished more fo those lobs that went through Javin’s hands. I wonder if this means Marques was under the weather.

—I’m flabbergasted that K would burn Joey’s redshirt only to play a handful of minutes in this game. I have to think there’s more to that story that’s going to be coming, either having to do with Zion’s injury or with why Jack didn’t play today. I have no inside information so I won’t speculate.

—Coach K made an absolutely BRILLIANT adjustment coming out of the half that went a bit under the radar, and that was having Tre flash to then high post rather than R.J. Tre is obviously much more comfortable with that shot, and once he made a few of those the zone started to collapse in (which corresponded nicely with when AOC got hot from deep). Once that was established, R.J. was able to do more work in there as well. When Tre was up top, he was so reticent to shoot that the top of the zone could sag down and prevent R.J. from getting to that spot. For those who often are frustrated by the lack of half-time adjustments, this was a perfect example of one that changed then game. If you can’t beat the zone by shooting over it, you have to beat it by getting the ball into then high paint and collapsing the zone. The first 5 minutes of the second half were an absolute CLINIC on how to do that and the effects it can have.

—The most conspicuous impact of Zion’s absence, in my mind, was the number of turnovers we had. There were a half-dozen lobs that normally would’ve gone to Zion and could’ve been thrown over the zone, that instead had to be more modest when headed toward Marques or Javin. Those are great passes when Zion is playing, and awful passes otherwise. If Zion is out on the longer side of things, the team will have to mentally adjust to this absence accordingly.

—If R.J. plays like he did today, we can win tough games without Zion. Period.

—No one should undervalue this win. Any victory against the 2-3 is a challenge considering you have to gameplan specifically for that defense in a way totally different than every other game. Having to do so following a UNC hangover and with all the Zion drama makes this even more impressive. All that, and doing it on the road in the dome? A big win no matter how you slice it.

OZZIE4DUKE
02-23-2019, 08:20 PM
Making our shots makes all the difference! LGD GTHc!

Native
02-23-2019, 08:20 PM
1. I thought the game was won when we swapped Bolden for Javin when Javin picked up his fourth. Syracuse is the tallest team in the country, and I thought having Bolden down low really helped negate that advantage. Immediate impact in rebounding the ball.
2. What more is there to say about RJ’s game? Fantastic performance and he’s really gotten more efficient when scoring the rock.
3. I want to hear K’s reasoning for burning Baker’s redshirt for five minutes of game play. Also wonder why Jack didn’t play.
4. Take a bow, AOC. Hopefully his shooting continues — he had a great second half.

MChambers
02-23-2019, 08:21 PM
I don’t think “burning” Baker’s redshirt is a big deal. If he’s as talented as reported, he’ll be gone in four years, or sooner. I think Jim Sumner said as much in an earlier post.

duke4ever19
02-23-2019, 08:21 PM
Okay, so Mr. Baker is officially not redshirting. Will it be a good decision in retrospect? I guess we shall see.

DukieInBrasil
02-23-2019, 08:22 PM
Great performance from RJ, an absolute shame that he didn't shoot more FTs.
Duke doesn't win this game with AOC though. Being able to hit some 3s totally changed the energy of the team.
Great FT shooting from the team tonight, like 86%.
31% from 3 actually lifted our season average!!!!
Our 2-headed Center grabbed 15 rebs and scored 9 points. Plus some blocked shots. Very not shabby!
Super pleased with this win, down 5 at the half and really strangled SYR down the stretch.

CDu
02-23-2019, 08:22 PM
I don’t think “burning” Baker’s redshirt is a big deal. If he’s as talented as reported, he’ll be gone in four years, or sooner. I think Jim Sumner said as much in an earlier post.

Yes, but at the same time he hadn’t played at all this year. They were clearly planning on redshirting him. The timing is odd. I hope it has more to do with White’s absence than Zion’s.

uh_no
02-23-2019, 08:23 PM
Baker, White, Zion, Alex. yeesh.

scottdude8
02-23-2019, 08:24 PM
Yes, but at the same time he hadn’t played at all this year. They were clearly planning on redshirting him. The timing is odd. I hope it has more to do with White’s absence than Zion’s.

If we post different variations of this thought enough times we might will it into existence. Let's just hope there was a bug going through the locker room that hit Jack hard.

I'm waiting on pins and needles for the report from the post-game presser. It should be very interesting.

duketaylor
02-23-2019, 08:25 PM
Awesome win!! AOC had a great game as did Barrett. Game was sloppy at times, for sure, but this is an excellent win. I think we'll see Zion next weekend. So at VT will be very tough. Just glad for this win.

Troublemaker
02-23-2019, 08:25 PM
So, we don't suck without Zion.

How about Hero Balls' pass fake before draining that cold-blooded 3? Biggest shot of the game.

HereBeforeCoachK
02-23-2019, 08:25 PM
Okay, so Mr. Baker is officially not redshirting. Will it be a good decision in retrospect? I guess we shall see.

Agreed.....that's the once maybe kinda sorta bothersome negative about tonight's fabulous win.....and it's no where near clear that doing it tonight....versus doing it six weeks ago.....versus not doing it.....is the right move. Time will tell.....

rocketeli
02-23-2019, 08:26 PM
Yes, but at the same time he hadn’t played at all this year. They were clearly planning on redshirting him. The timing is odd. I hope it has more to do with White’s absence than Zion’s.

maybe he was scorching the nets in practice and more than willing to play. We really are desperate for some more, or rather some more accurate outside shooting.

SCMatt33
02-23-2019, 08:26 PM
That was a much better played 2nd half. They still took nearly half of their shots from three, but it was a lot less forced than in the first half. Outside of the middle segment from 12 to 8 in the first, many of threes were coming off of swinging the ball around and not penetrating or making the zone move. That issue was largely solved in the second and a much higher percentage of the threes came off of movement and penetration, even if the ultimate shot wasn’t off of one of those passes. It made the shots more open and also helped open up the offensive boards for some of the misses. The only thing that wasn’t great was the defensive glass, but some that is subbing OConnell for Zion, but there was a great effort on the defensive boards in the last 8 minutes to help pull away

HereBeforeCoachK
02-23-2019, 08:26 PM
So, we don't suck without Zion.

How about Hero Balls' pass fake before draining that cold-blooded 3? Biggest shot of the game.

Funny, COLD BLOODED ala Laettner was my immediate thought.

heyman25
02-23-2019, 08:27 PM
Barrett was superb. O'Connell was outstanding.
Reddish? What do the NBA scouts see in Cam. He is 6'8 but it was O'Connell that hit shots.
Happy for the win. Marques Bolden gave us a huge lift. Our rebounding was terrible until Marques started playing.

Great win, but this team can close games better. Dumb passes late in the game are unacceptable. Coach K made some half time adjustments that got us the win.

mph
02-23-2019, 08:28 PM
—I’m flabbergasted that K would burn Joey’s redshirt only to play a handful of minutes in this game. I have to think there’s more to that story that’s going to be coming, either having to do with Zion’s injury or with why Jack didn’t play today. I have no inside information so I won’t speculate.

Yes. It’s hard to make sense of burning the redshirt without there being a reason beyond Baker’s ability to fill in for a short-term Zion injury. The most encouraging explanation would be Baker playing and shooting well in practice and K deciding that we need another shooter for the post-season run. But that seems like a bit of stretch this late in the season.

proelitedota
02-23-2019, 08:29 PM
We needed to take the open 3s with confidence. Hitting even 30% means we win games because our defense is reliable.

With Zion we can shoot 10% and still win.

heyman25
02-23-2019, 08:30 PM
Glad White did not play . He has no confidence and perhaps this bench sitting will get him back to December Jack.

BoiseDevil
02-23-2019, 08:30 PM
Great 2nd half adjustments.

Love Bolden’s play in 2nd half. Without AOC and him we don’t win.

Please don’t bring Goldwire in for critical situations

I hope Baker has shown something in practice, because he looked slow and scared to me in his few mins of burn

Overall, I love the grit RJ showed, and I think the whole team fed off his attitude.

Cam’s inability to finish wide open breakaways is frustrating. I think replay showed he was hot-dogging AND he actually hit it out of bounds. Plays like that deep in the tourney can turn momentum against you and get you beat. (Think Battier block from behind)

I felt this was a crucial game and I hope AOC and Bolden can build on this game and give us more even after Zion returns.

Go Duke!

Tooold
02-23-2019, 08:31 PM
I never really understood the Baker redshirt concept, as I don’t see him staying 5 years. I just don’t understand why K waited until now.

I agree that Bolden coming in for Javin seemed to solidify the win. He is just much better at holding onto rebounds and finishing his dunks. I wonder if we could have had 6-8 more points in first half if he had played more. But who amI to question the GOaT.

Scheyer said during halftime interview that they were trying to find someone who could shoot...so I think that explains some of the personnel usage. Thankfully AOC came through!

jv001
02-23-2019, 08:31 PM
Great job by our youngsters against a good Cuse team. Alex played his best game as Dukie. But RJ was fantastic tonight. He played under control, took what the defense gave him and made shots. Our two headed center, Javin and Marques played very well. Javin having a good first half and Marques having a great 2nd half. Marques showed some strength grabbing those important rebounds late in the game. I'm wondering if Baker has been lighting it up in practice and Coach K decided to use him to hopefully be a zone breaker. However that job went to Alex as he nailed some big 3s. GoDuke!

Dukehky
02-23-2019, 08:32 PM
Yes. It’s hard to make sense of burning the redshirt without there being a reason beyond Baker’s ability to fill in for a short-term Zion injury. The most encouraging explanation would be Baker playing and shooting well in practice and K deciding that we need another shooter for the post-season run. But that seems like a bit of stretch this late in the season.

I think there's more of a reason. I think he was probably playing really well in practice and Jack has been a no-show the past month. I think that has more to do with it than Duke needing him to win this game, they obviously didn't.

Also, if coach tells you you're going to play, and you have the chance to contribute to a title caliber team, kinda hard to pass up.

dukelifer
02-23-2019, 08:33 PM
So, we don't suck without Zion.

How about Hero Balls' pass fake before draining that cold-blooded 3? Biggest shot of the game.

RJ played like a star- patient in the zone and hit killer shots. He looked like a pro. Great game by AOC. Kid can shoot- just needs to get into the flow of the game- which was possible because of Zion's absence. Bolden has a number of important plays down the stretch. Cam was a bit of a disaster - his inconsistency is a head scratcher. Baker has a new short so we shall see how that affects the team into March. This team clearly needs Zion but maybe they can keep winning for a few more games to let Zion heal completely. No question- this was a confidence builder.

Skydog
02-23-2019, 08:34 PM
Bringing Bolden in the game turned the rebounding story around. We went from getting dominating on boards to dominating the boards.
Great game by AOC. Great offense by RJ. Cam’s shooting confidence issue re-emerges.
Too many poorly executed lobs.
Defensively AOC better than usual. Cam strong. DeLaurier mixed - nice steals but got totally dominated in paint.
Thought Syr looked scared as soon as we took lead.

Baker for five minutes??? This plus seeing Zion limping makes me worried that this isn’t going to be a few days rest injury.

But we got a great, and much needed, win on the road! Good job!

dukelifer
02-23-2019, 08:36 PM
I never really understood the Baker redshirt concept, as I don’t see him staying 5 years. I just don’t understand why K waited until now.

I agree that Bolden coming in for Javin seemed to solidify the win. He is just much better at holding onto rebounds and finishing his dunks. I wonder if we could have had 6-8 more points in first half if he had played more. But who amI to question the GOaT.

Scheyer said during halftime interview that they were trying to find someone who could shoot...so I think that explains some of the personnel usage. Thankfully AOC came through!

As for why- I am not sure- but Baker probably would not have played a ton and perhaps was not ready early. That said- losing Zion made Duke vulnerable to another injury so...

wsb3
02-23-2019, 08:36 PM
Hard fought win. D got much better the last 10. Still, I think Cuse helped us out missing some good opportunities and free throws because we sure made some mistakes down the stretch. Bolden was huge. AOC wow. RJ kept us in it until he got some help. I am befuddled with Reddish.. I keep waiting for some consistency from him.

Our esteemed poster who kept hammering for Baker to play..I think that poster should be the Baker No Longer a Redshirt thread starter because the Baker decision will surely be talked about. I think Coach K has been seeing something in practice from him & he knows the outside shooting in suspect. He has a team that has a chance to win it all and possibly a few minutes in a crucial game from Baker could be the difference. You never know. I certainly don't think it was based on the game tonight.

Tough road win. Been a long week. Might be time for a celebratory beer..

JNort
02-23-2019, 08:36 PM
AOC not getting more pt this year has been baffling to me. Hope we continue letting him get some burn. Bolden solid per usual. Javin would be an awesome player if he just wasn't so foul prone. Baker I'm excited to see get up to speed, may take a couple games for him to get cozzy. RJ... Dude is a killer on the court, he plays similar to Harden with the Kobe attitude. Tre is a great passer and leader but still struggles from deep and within 3 feet.


To whomever that was in the in game thread asking about NBA players developing a 3 point shot... You might should start watching the NBA. Loads of guys develop 3 point shots.


I don't understand the Reddish haters who say they don't see it with him. If I'm a scout in telling my team to draft him top 10 easily. Dude is great but streaky.

DukieInBrasil
02-23-2019, 08:38 PM
Agreed....that's the once maybe kinda sorta bothersome negative about tonight's fabulous win....and it's no where near clear that doing it tonight...versus doing it six weeks ago....versus not doing it....is the right move. Time will tell....
as mentioned in the in-game thread, maybe it was using Baker that got the message across to AOC (who was 0-1 at that point): produce or get replaced. And whoo-dawg, did AOC produce. Career high in pts and 3s!!!




Please don’t bring Goldwire in for critical situations

I hope Baker has shown something in practice, because he looked slow and scared to me in his few mins of burn
Overall, I love the grit RJ showed, and I think the whole team fed off his attitude.
Cam’s inability to finish wide open breakaways is frustrating. I think replay showed he was hot-dogging AND he actually hit it out of bounds. Plays like that deep in the tourney can turn momentum against you and get you beat. (Think Battier block from behind)

Go Duke!
We don't win that game at Louisville without Goldwire's play. He can be forgiven for making a bad play tonight. He's just got learn how to focus consistently, and not just be energetic. Energy without focus causes bad mistakes. Energy with focus gets the team big wins.
I'm actually ok with that lack of finish, although attacking the rim hard would have been preferable. He just didn't change speeds enough to get the play he thought he was gonna get. What bothered me most was that ridiculous more than cross-court pass trying to go over the zone that was easily picked off. That was a careless and stupid play. Cam had a poor game overall, despite at least 2 really excellent defensive plays near the start of the game, he seemed to not be keyed in for the rest.

jv001
02-23-2019, 08:38 PM
I think there's more of a reason. I think he was probably playing really well in practice and Jack has been a no-show the past month. I think that has more to do with it than Duke needing him to win this game, they obviously didn't.

Also, if coach tells you you're going to play, and you have the chance to contribute to a title caliber team, kinda hard to pass up.

I've found over the many years of being a Duke fan, it's hard to second guess the GOAT. One other thing, Cam made some questionable passes tonight. Freshmen mistakes? I loved that Alex did not try to dunk the ball toward the end of the game but brought it back out. Good basketball IQ. GoDuke!

lotusland
02-23-2019, 08:39 PM
Barrett was superb. O'Connell was outstanding.
Reddish? What do the NBA scouts see in Cam. He is 6'8 but it was O'Connell that hit shots.
Happy for the win. Marques Bolden gave us a huge lift. Our rebounding was terrible until Marques started playing.

Great win, but this team can close games better. Dumb passes late in the game are unacceptable. Coach K made some half time adjustments that got us the win.

Don’t underestimate Cams defense. He’s very good. His reach is impressive. He’s gotten better finishing around the basket. His shooting is streaky but his defense is solid.

roywhite
02-23-2019, 08:40 PM
So much more to talk about, and like, than whether we'll miss Joey Baker in the 2022-23 season.

Great to see Alex respond...wow! Love that soft, high-arcing shot, beautiful. Great adjustments by the staff at halftime. What a competitor and winner RJ Barrett is! Christian Laettner would tip his hat.

Loved watching the bench, and great to see Zion enjoying it. On one occasion, he jumped pretty well for a guy with a sore knee.

Dan Shulman and Jay were properly respectful of the tragedy and loss of life in the auto accident. I did a double-take when Shulman said the crowd had observed a moment of silence in both English and Spanish...hmmm, sounded different?

brevity
02-23-2019, 08:41 PM
Here's a link to the postgame press conference. Coach K just started.

https://www.localsyr.com/sports/orange-nation/watch-live-syracuse-vs-duke-post-game-press-conference/1804528629

(Click the link under the picture.)

wsb3
02-23-2019, 08:42 PM
Please don’t bring Goldwire in for critical situations.

I was trying to be calm and not curse.. but I saw Goldwire check in & I think immediately I said, "Coach WTH are you thinking?":D

arnie
02-23-2019, 08:42 PM
As for why- I am not sure- but Baker probably would not have played a ton and perhaps was not ready early. That said- losing Zion made Duke vulnerable to another injury so...

We needed another body and K made the decision to play Baker. I don’t see the controversy and the “decision” to redshirt was predicated on good health and shooters making 3’s. Why not bring him on slowly and possibly he turns a game around for us soon.

If Jack White has lost his confidence, then AOC should be given a shot. Seems K is simply doing his job and trying to make the parts fit. Great finish tonight!

mph
02-23-2019, 08:42 PM
Bringing Bolden in the game turned the rebounding story around. We went from getting dominating on boards to dominating the boards.

One of the big mysteries of this game is why it took so long to use Bolden. I got the logic of starting Javin and AOC but when Vrank entered the game I assumed that Bolden must be under the weather. What did Vrank provide that Bolden doesn't do better? Rebounding? Rim protection? Defense on switches? Post scoring? i don't get it.

weezie
02-23-2019, 08:42 PM
Don’t underestimate Cams defense. He’s very good. His reach is impressive. He’s gotten better finishing around the basket. His shooting is streaky but his defense is solid.

Yes, yes, yes. He and Tre were glued to their man tonight.

heyman25
02-23-2019, 08:42 PM
RJ played like a star- patient in the zone and hit killer shots. He looked like a pro. Great game by AOC. Kid can shoot- just needs to get into the flow of the game- which was possible because of Zion's absence. Bolden has a number of important plays down the stretch. Cam was a bit of a disaster - his inconsistency is a head scratcher. Baker has a new short so we shall see how that affects the team into March. This team clearly needs Zion but maybe they can keep winning for a few more games to let Zion heal completely. No question- this was a confidence builder.

Reddish inconsistent. 1 for 8 on 3's. I don't understand what the NBA sees in him.That soft layup is not the first time he has been weak with a dribble drive. I thought he would finally live up to the hype. He throws the ball carelessly in crunch time. If he gives us something great, but no more expectations from me to see Cam be a consistent double digit scorer. He does sometime makes steals but then blows the play or gives it right back. He is not strong with the ball.

Kjeffrey
02-23-2019, 08:43 PM
So much more to talk about, and like, than whether we'll miss Joey Baker in the 2022-23 season.

Great to see Alex respond...wow! Love that soft, high-arcing shot, beautiful. Great adjustments by the staff at halftime. What a competitor and winner RJ Barrett is! Christian Laettner would tip his hat.

Loved watching the bench, and great to see Zion enjoying it. On one occasion, he jumped pretty well for a guy with a sore knee.

Dan Shulman and Jay were properly respectful of the tragedy and loss of life in the auto accident. I did a double-take when Shulman said the crowd had observed a moment of silence in both English and Spanish...hmmm, sounded different?

He said it twice! I'm guessing they announced the moment of silence in both languages. His choice of words was interesting though.

MChambers
02-23-2019, 08:43 PM
So much more to talk about, and like, than whether we'll miss Joey Baker in the 2022-23 season.

Great to see Alex respond...wow! Love that soft, high-arcing shot, beautiful. Great adjustments by the staff at halftime. What a competitor and winner RJ Barrett is! Christian Laettner would tip his hat.

Loved watching the bench, and great to see Zion enjoying it. On one occasion, he jumped pretty well for a guy with a sore knee.

Dan Shulman and Jay were properly respectful of the tragedy and loss of life in the auto accident. I did a double-take when Shulman said the crowd had observed a moment of silence in both English and Spanish...hmmm, sounded different?

Un momento de silencia?

wsb3
02-23-2019, 08:44 PM
Here's a link to the postgame press conference. Coach K just started.

https://www.localsyr.com/sports/orange-nation/watch-live-syracuse-vs-duke-post-game-press-conference/1804528629

(Click the link under the picture.)

Thank you.

DukieInBrasil
02-23-2019, 08:45 PM
One of the big mysteries of this game is why it took so long to use Bolden. I got the logic of starting Javin and AOC but when Vrank entered the game I assumed that Bolden must be under the weather. What did Vrank provide that Bolden doesn't do better? Rebounding? Rim protection? Defense on switches? Post scoring? i don't get it.

i think K was sending Big Ques a message: if you can't be bothered to show up vs our biggest rival, then your chances will be given to someone else. Seems he got the message, he played with great energy during the time he was in and made some very big contributions.

Kjeffrey
02-23-2019, 08:45 PM
One of the big mysteries of this game is why it took so long to use Bolden. I got the logic of starting Javin and AOC but when Vrank entered the game I assumed that Bolden must be under the weather. What did Vrank provide that Bolden doesn't do better? Rebounding? Rim protection? Defense on switches? Post scoring? i don't get it.

I wondered if it was about sending a message.

wavedukefan70s
02-23-2019, 08:45 PM
Yes, but at the same time he hadn’t played at all this year. They were clearly planning on redshirting him. The timing is odd. I hope it has more to do with White’s absence than Zion’s.

That's what worries me.

Pghdukie
02-23-2019, 08:47 PM
Goldwire comes thru against Louisville. then AOC comes thru against Cuse. Both tough road wins. I think this team is gaining confidence. A deeper bench will surely help when you play 2 games in 3days after a tough ACC tourney run.

Mak P
02-23-2019, 08:47 PM
Losing a player like Zion will cause a ripple effect in everything. It wasn't like FSU game, seeing he's on the sideline with an eye but a knee injury. That will mess with you mentally as nobody knows what his injury could be

This game K adjusted without him

weezie
02-23-2019, 08:47 PM
i think K was sending Big Ques a message: if you can't be bothered to show up vs our biggest rival, then your chances will be given to someone else. Seems he got the message, he played with great energy during the time he was in and made some very big contributions.


Ding ding ding ding! An extra ding!

uh_no
02-23-2019, 08:49 PM
Reddish inconsistent. 1 for 8 on 3's. I don't understand what the NBA sees in him.That soft layup is not the first time he has been weak with a dribble drive. I thought he would finally live up to the hype. He throws the ball carelessly in crunch time. If he gives us something great, but no more expectations from me to see Cam be a consistent double digit scorer. He does sometime makes steals but then blows the play or gives it right back. He is not strong with the ball.

Did you miss when he put up 27 vs UNC with their entire defense focused on he and RJ? Or when he put up 22 vs UL?

So many here have ridiculously short memories. college freshman SHOULD be inconsistent. It's what he does when he's on that draws so much attention.

Furniture
02-23-2019, 08:49 PM
Okay, so Mr. Baker is officially not redshirting. Will it be a good decision in retrospect? I guess we shall see.

Exactly. Plus I bet it’s all gravy for Joey. He wants to play with his team!!

bluenorth
02-23-2019, 08:50 PM
It has obviously been an interesting few days in the basketball office. The conversations would have been fascinating to hear. AOC, we're going to start you. Joey, how about giving up a year of eligibility now? Jack, you won't see the floor. And so on. But it paid off in an excellent win in a tough environment. Plus there was another demonstration of why Coach K is the GOAT. The half time analysis emphasised that Duke had to keep flashing RJ into the middle of the Syracuse zone. Instead, Jones takes over those duties, and very effectively. Mind you, it doesn't hurt to have Barrett commanding attention no matter where he is on the court. On to the next game.

MChambers
02-23-2019, 08:50 PM
That's what worries me.

With Zion and White out and others struggling with their shots, why not try Baker? Burning his redshirt is a big deal for Duke or for him.

jv001
02-23-2019, 08:51 PM
I was trying to be calm and not curse.. but I saw Goldwire check in & I think immediately I said, "Coach WTH are you thinking?":D

To be fair, the inbounds pass was into the corner where doubling him was easy. Especially for the difference in length of Jordan and the 2 cuse players. I'm not saying Jordan is more than a role player but that turnover was not on him alone. GoDuke!

uh_no
02-23-2019, 08:51 PM
With Zion and White out and others struggling with their shots, why not try Baker?

I won't pretend to say I saw this coming or even thought it was a good idea, or even think it is a good idea now.....BUT....I'm still happy to see him play, and hope he has a great rest of the season.

dukelion
02-23-2019, 08:53 PM
K said that Zion is coming back when ready and Joey will continue to get mins.

mph
02-23-2019, 08:54 PM
Coach K's press conference was very encouraging:

1. There's been no talk about shutting Zion down by him or anyone in his family. He wants to play.
2. Zion's injury is not expected to be long-term. They are following a protocol and it is "literally day to day."
3. Baker played because he's been playing well in practice and we need another shooter.

CrazyNotCrazie
02-23-2019, 08:55 PM
With Zion and White out and others struggling with their shots, why not try Baker? Burning his redshirt is a big deal for Duke or for him.

But was White out due to illness or injury or due to being outplayed? I get the burning of the redshirt a lot more if Jack was unable to play than if they chose not to play him.

Now that the redshirt is burned, there is no turning back so it will be interesting to see his role going forward. I wish basketball had a rule like the new football rule where you can play a few games without totally burning the redshirt.

uh_no
02-23-2019, 08:55 PM
game 1 v cuse:
99 adjD, 111 adjO

game 2 v cuse:
93 adjD, 123 adjO

Much better performance on both sides of the ball. RJ with one of his best performance of the year.

Stray Gator
02-23-2019, 08:55 PM
i think K was sending Big Ques a message: if you can't be bothered to show up vs our biggest rival, then your chances will be given to someone else. Seems he got the message, he played with great energy during the time he was in and made some very big contributions.

Then again, it could be that Marques is still recovering from the viral bug he reportedly had, and the coaching staff felt that it would be best to save his limited energy and endurance for the stretch run if needed -- which it assuredly was. I'd prefer to adopt that rationale than one which casts a negative light on the young man by assuming that his performance in the UNC game was attributable to, or is being regarded by the coaches as, a lack of effort.

scottdude8
02-23-2019, 08:56 PM
Coach K's press conference was very encouraging:

1. There's been no talk about shutting Zion down by him or anyone in his family. He wants to play.
2. Zion's injury is not expected to be long-term. They are following a protocol and it is "literally day to day."
3. Baker played because he's been playing well in practice and we need another shooter.

Just listened to the whole thing too. K’s ability to spin from the question the reporter asks to what he wants to talk about in a just a couple sentences never ceases to amaze this former Chronicle writer.

Agree that everything he said seemed largely positive. I wish someone had asked about Jack not seeing the floor. That’s the last piece of the “puzzle” here.

CrazyNotCrazie
02-23-2019, 08:56 PM
Coach K's press conference was very encouraging:

1. There's been no talk about shutting Zion down by him or anyone in his family. He wants to play.
2. Zion's injury is not expected to be long-term. They are following a protocol and it is "literally day to day."
3. Baker played because he's been playing well in practice and we need another shooter.

Did Coach speak to Jack’s DNP?

jv001
02-23-2019, 08:56 PM
I won't pretend to say I saw this coming or even thought it was a good idea, or even think it is a good idea now....BUT...I'm still happy to see him play, and hope he has a great rest of the season.

I'm with you on this. Let's let it play out. We don't get to see these young men in practice, well at least I don't. Joey might me making the 3 ball in practice. I have to wonder if Coach was sending a message to both Jack and Marques tonight. One thing we know for sure, Coach K will not throw them under the bus like the coach for the cheats does. GoDuke!

heyman25
02-23-2019, 08:56 PM
Did you miss when he put up 27 vs UNC with their entire defense focused on he and RJ? Or when he put up 22 vs UL?

So many here have ridiculously short memories. college freshman SHOULD be inconsistent. It's what he does when he's on that draws so much attention.
No I did not. I have been pulling for Cam all season. Fortunately Alex O'Connell had a fabulous game. Yes freshman can have bad shooting nights. However his defense against Cam Johnson of UNC was not that special. I want Cam to do well,and I hope the next game is great for him. However going by the season's performance I have no high expectations for Reddish.

wsb3
02-23-2019, 08:56 PM
If I missed it please forgive me but do we know anything on Jack?

brevity
02-23-2019, 08:57 PM
Here's a link to the postgame press conference. Coach K just started.

https://www.localsyr.com/sports/orange-nation/watch-live-syracuse-vs-duke-post-game-press-conference/1804528629

(Click the link under the picture.)


K said that Zion is coming back when ready and Joey will continue to get mins.


Coach K's press conference was very encouraging:

1. There's been no talk about shutting Zion down by him or anyone in his family. He wants to play.
2. Zion's injury is not expected to be long-term. They are following a protocol and it is "literally day to day."
3. Baker played because he's been playing well in practice and we need another shooter.

The press conference is over, and the pickings were slim. Not much of a Triangle presence among the press. Coach K mostly answered questions about Boeheim. While dukelion and mph are correct, I feel like they said more than Coach K did about Zion and Joey.


Did Coach speak to Jack’s DNP?


If I missed it please forgive me but do we know anything on Jack?

No. No one asked him. The perils of modern journalism.

MChambers
02-23-2019, 08:57 PM
I won't pretend to say I saw this coming or even thought it was a good idea, or even think it is a good idea now....BUT...I'm still happy to see him play, and hope he has a great rest of the season.

Exactly! I have no idea if using Baker was a good idea, but I understand that only the coaches have any sense of what he can contribute this season. Maybe the coaches just want to make sure he gets a ring? 😉. In all seriousness, Coach K said something last week about how engaged Baker was on the bench. K seems to make a lot of his decisions based on his assessment of a player’s mental outlook. Maybe Baker’s engagement on the bench was a factor. Obviously, what he shows in practice is a factor too.

mph
02-23-2019, 08:58 PM
If I missed it please forgive me but do we know anything on Jack?

I missed the beginning but he didn't mention Jack in the part I heard.

robed deity
02-23-2019, 08:58 PM
Just listened to the whole thing too. K’s ability to spin from the question the reporter asks to what he wants to talk about in a just a couple sentences never ceases to amaze this former Chronicle writer.

Agree that everything he said seemed largely positive. I wish someone had asked about Jack not seeing the floor. That’s the last piece of the “puzzle” here.

In addition to, you know, being a great coach, I've always been amazed at this ability.

HereBeforeCoachK
02-23-2019, 08:59 PM
as mentioned in the in-game thread, maybe it was using Baker that got the message across to AOC (who was 0-1 at that point): produce or get replaced. And whoo-dawg, did AOC produce. Career high in pts and 3s!!!

We don't win that game at Louisville without Goldwire's play. He can be forgiven for making a bad play tonight. He's just got learn how to focus consistently, and not just be energetic. Energy without focus causes bad mistakes. Energy with focus gets the team big wins.
I'm actually ok with that lack of finish, although attacking the rim hard would have been preferable. He just didn't change speeds enough to get the play he thought he was gonna get. What bothered me most was that ridiculous more than cross-court pass trying to go over the zone that was easily picked off. That was a careless and stupid play. Cam had a poor game overall, despite at least 2 really excellent defensive plays near the start of the game, he seemed to not be keyed in for the rest.

In regard to point one...I joked that lifting Joey's redshirt make Alex shoot well.....but I don't think we can deduce that. I suppose it's possible there's some karma there somewhere.....but what I think helped Alex was knowing he was getting big minutes ahead of time, so he lost his fear. And he's been playing with fear. Not tonight. Man, he wanted to jack up some more threes.

So the bottom line on Joey's redshirt, but not lifting it til tonight? Jury still out. All we can do now is embrace it, and hope that a renewed AOC, and maybe Baker, can make us more dangerous. If Joey drains a few big threes in Chapel Hill, we'll have our answer.

And credit to Goldwire for the L'ville game....he deserves it. But man, if he's in our top 8 going forward? (grit teeth, furrow brow)

lotusland
02-23-2019, 09:01 PM
Most questionable burning of a redshirt since Capel played freshman Vrank when K was out. I hope the long term ramifications are the same as I wouldn’t expect Vrank to contribute much more next year short of a rash of injuries.

jipops
02-23-2019, 09:02 PM
Wow, color me shocked. I did not see this coming. Actual made 3’s!! And the defense in the last 10 minutes was outstanding giving up only 13 in that span. Cam’s perimeter D is exceptional. I really like when K puts him on the ball handler, he kills his vision.

This game was all RJ. He really just took over.

Baker decision was just bizzare.

fuse
02-23-2019, 09:02 PM
Solid win.

A game that produced way more questions than answers though.
Baker? White? Zion?

Hope this is the start of something good for Alex.

A little more offensive production from Cam and Tre will give this team a working margin, and with no expectations, I’m eager to see the defensive stats as I thought our defense was, aside from a few breakdowns, pretty good.

fan345678
02-23-2019, 09:02 PM
AOC's 3's came when we were:
down 3
down 2
down 2
up 1
up 1
Granted, it was close throughout, but that's a lot of momentum control.

CrazyNotCrazie
02-23-2019, 09:03 PM
The press conference is over, and the pickings were slim. Not much of a Triangle presence among the press. Coach K mostly answered questions about Boeheim. While dukelion and mph are correct, I feel like they said more than Coach K did about Zion and Joey.





No. No one asked him. The perils of modern journalism.

Yet another reason I miss Al Featherston. Coach has a tendency to intimidate the writers and I’m sure they all knew they would get their head chewed off if they asked so none of them had the cajones to do so. Hopefully someone spoke to Jack in the locker room.

jv001
02-23-2019, 09:04 PM
In regard to point one...I joked that lifting Joey's redshirt make Alex shoot well...but I don't think we can deduce that. I suppose it's possible there's some karma there somewhere...but what I think helped Alex was knowing he was getting big minutes ahead of time, so he lost his fear. And he's been playing with fear. Not tonight. Man, he wanted to jack up some more threes.

So the bottom line on Joey's redshirt, but not lifting it til tonight? Jury still out. All we can do now is embrace it, and hope that a renewed AOC, and maybe Baker, can make us more dangerous. If Joey drains a few big threes in Chapel Hill, we'll have our answer.

And credit to Goldwire for the L'ville game...he deserves it. But man, if he's in our top 8 going forward? (grit teeth, furrow brow)

Maybe Coach said to the other coaches, surely Joey can make more 3s than Jack has lately. :cool: GoDuke!

Furniture
02-23-2019, 09:04 PM
Don’t underestimate Cams defense. He’s very good. His reach is impressive. He’s gotten better finishing around the basket. His shooting is streaky but his defense is solid.

Matt Jones D.

WiJoe
02-23-2019, 09:09 PM
—I’m flabbergasted that K would burn Joey’s redshirt only to play a handful of minutes in this game. I have to think there’s more to that story that’s going to be coming, either having to do with Zion’s injury or with why Jack didn’t play today. I have no inside information so I won’t speculate.



Oh, heavens. Weren't you one of the smarties who INSISTED baker was redshirting? Yeah, I think you were. As long as he was in UNIFORM EVERY GAME, there was a chance he would play.

I understand second-guessing is the lifeblood of this site. You can't, however, make definitive statements when you JUST DON'T KNOW.

Great job by AOC, Marques, Jav, RJ and Tre. Check Battle 4-17 on FG.

I also heard schulman with his "moment of silence in both English and Spanish line. He should go back to Canada and call curling. And take Bilas with him.

uh_no
02-23-2019, 09:10 PM
Matt Jones D.

as a freshman, at that.

curtis325
02-23-2019, 09:11 PM
46-point second half against the Syracuse zone--without Zion!

Not too shabby.

aGDevil2k
02-23-2019, 09:11 PM
Z moved just fine and was jumping around on the sidelines

proelitedota
02-23-2019, 09:13 PM
Z moved just fine and was jumping around on the sidelines

On cue, start the mystery theme...

Hope that K isn't pulling an Izzo and inserting some adversity because we're peaking too early?

uh_no
02-23-2019, 09:13 PM
Z moved just fine and was jumping around on the sidelines

TBF, knee injuries often don't preclude ANY movement, just lateral movement.

Anecdotally, a family member had a torn ACL + MCL, and still rode their bike, but couldn't do much else.

DUKIE V(A)
02-23-2019, 09:13 PM
Tremendous win. Not always pretty and definitely had me nervous but beating Syracuse (especially at their place and at less than full strength) is an impressive feat.

Total team victory. Lots of different guys contributed valuable minutes, but AOC and Barrett played amazing and clutch games.

I will never understand the Reddish hate by some. Ever. He makes some occasional poor decisions, but what freshman doesn’t and his tend to be errors of commission (trying to make a play) rather than omission (playing passively). I can live with his aggressive errors as he is not fearful of the moment. By the way, he makes a ton of big plays in big moments and plays outstanding, consistent, hard defense.

Baker playing took me by surprise. That said, the calculus has to be he gives us a better chance to win championships. I liked what I saw tonight. He grabbed two defensive rebounds in limited playing time and looked confident on the one shot he took. Looking forward to watching him develop and get into the flow as the season progresses.

Go Duke!

HereBeforeCoachK
02-23-2019, 09:16 PM
Maybe Coach said to the other coaches, surely Joey can make more 3s than Jack has lately. :cool: GoDuke!

Low bar......low low bar..........:cool:

Joey came in with the others....the others insisted he be in the SI picture.....he'll never have a better chance to win a title I wouldn't think....I've wanted the shirt lifted for a couple months. Timing is odd.....but all we can do now is hope he helps capture that title with the four studs who insisted he was one of them pre season.

devilnfla
02-23-2019, 09:16 PM
I hope Baker has shown something in practice, because he looked slow and scared to me in his few mins of burn

Go Duke!

I actually thought he looked poised out there. Picked up a couple of rebounds and his one shot had good form and just missed. Thought he had a nice block right before the half that was called as a foul.

KandG
02-23-2019, 09:17 PM
The first half was what I was afraid would happen...really frustrating the way we attacked their defense for much of the first half (settling for a lot of bad 3s), while Syracuse got a lot of opportunistic baskets off offensive rebounds and making tough contested 2s. Some of those 3s Tre was trying to aim at the basket with no one near him were just cringeworthy.

It didn't help that we couldn't turn Syracuse over the way I hoped we might, because Tre had to defend Battle and RJ had to guard Brisette with Zion out. I was especially worried with Alex starting that we would give up a ton of points, given the way things turned out the first time we played Cuse at home.

But Alex (mostly) held his own, Tre locked down Battle, and we found intelligent ways to attack their zone in the second half. i was especially impressed with how strong Alex was with the ball against the zone, and how he stepped into his shots with confidence and passed quickly against closeouts. The majority of K's adjustments worked extremely well, and that second half was awesome.

RJ was just a monster all game and his in-between game flourished against the zone...he was just too strong and too smart for Syracuse to handle.

I see several people are being hard on Cam for his shooting but I'm going to defend him on this front: it was clear he was struggling with the sightlines in the Dome. He had *zero* feel on his three pointers, and Syracuse's zone made it worse as he rarely settled into a comfortable shot. I thought Cam's turnovers late in the game were more inexcusable, and I'm sure the coaching staff will be on him about being more careful with the ball. (yes, I thought he was a bit casual on his breakaway, but I think it's just him still learning how to be stronger with the ball).

Cam was good on defense, as was most of the team, including DeLaurier and Bolden -- Marques' first stint was actually a bit of a disaster as he got picked on immediately in the pick and roll. But those second half minutes and all those rebounds were *huge*.

Thought the turning point of the game was Dolezaj picking up his fourth foul (a pretty silly one on Tre driving the baseline)...he was the only one really giving us trouble on defense. I've always liked his game dating back to last season, and he gave us fits for much of the game.

Seeing Joey Baker and Vrankovic enter the game (ahead of Bolden no less) was definitely mind-blowing -- I had no idea what to think. My reaction (reinforced by the press conference) is that K feels we need more shooting...we can't get away with what we've shown to date, no matter how incredible our best players are. We're going to be seeing more zones, more gimmick defenses, and we need good confident shooters. And K feels Baker is one of the best we have.

Now making a decision like that so late in the season, and seeing Jack White glued to the bench, is definitely strange. I hope the reasons are tactical and have nothing to do with injuries or anything behind the scenes. No matter what, I look forward to seeing what Joey brings to the team the rest of the season.

heyman25
02-23-2019, 09:18 PM
Tremendous win. Not always pretty and definitely had me nervous but beating Syracuse (especially at their place and at less than full strength) is an impressive feat.

Total team victory. Lots of different guys contributed valuable minutes, but AOC and Barrett played amazing and clutch games.

I will never understand the Reddish hate by some. Ever. He makes some occasional poor decisions, but what freshman doesn’t and his tend to be errors of commission (trying to make a play) rather than omission (playing passively). I can live with his aggressive errors as he is not fearful of the moment. By the way, he makes a ton of big plays in big moments and plays outstanding, consistent, hard defense.

Baker playing took me by surprise. That said, the calculus has to be he gives us a better chance to win championships. I liked what I saw tonight. He grabbed two defensive rebounds in limited playing time and looked confident on the one shot he took. Looking forward to watching him develop and get into the flow as the season progresses.

Go Duke!

It is not Reddish hate . It is just an opinion and an observation. Today Cam had 5 points 7 rebounds and 3 turnovers. 18% shooting from the field.

jv001
02-23-2019, 09:19 PM
Low bar...low low bar......:cool:

Joey came in with the others...the others insisted he be in the SI picture....he'll never have a better chance to win a title I wouldn't think...I've wanted the shirt lifted for a couple months. Timing is odd....but all we can do now is hope he helps capture that title with the four studs who insisted he was one of them pre season.

Maybe Joey gives us the Freshmen Grayson Allen on the way to the 6th. GoDuke!

Skydog
02-23-2019, 09:21 PM
Don’t underestimate Cams defense. He’s very good. His reach is impressive. He’s gotten better finishing around the basket. His shooting is streaky but his defense is solid.

Truth. It's just that offense (where RJ has been spectacular and Cam has been streaky) gets noticed much more than defense (where Cam is consistently strong and RJ too often takes plays off).

uh_no
02-23-2019, 09:23 PM
It is not Reddish hate . It is just an opinion and an observation. Today Cam had 5 points 7 rebounds and 3 turnovers. 18% shooting from the field.

saying that reddish had a bad game, which is likely true, is different from saying "I don't understand what anyone sees in him", which you and others did.

(https://forums.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showthread.php?43279-MBB-Duke-75-Syracuse-65-Post-Game-Thread&p=1132156#post1132156)

scottdude8
02-23-2019, 09:25 PM
Oh, heavens. Weren't you one of the smarties who INSISTED baker was redshirting? Yeah, I think you were. As long as he was in UNIFORM EVERY GAME, there was a chance he would play.

I understand second-guessing is the lifeblood of this site. You can't, however, make definitive statements when you JUST DON'T KNOW.

Great job by AOC, Marques, Jav, RJ and Tre. Check Battle 4-17 on FG.

I also heard schulman with his "moment of silence in both English and Spanish line. He should go back to Canada and call curling. And take Bilas with him.

I think that you’re massively mischaracterizing my prior statements. I consistently said that all indications were Joey would redshirt and that was the plan all along. I drew parallels to the Alex Murphy situation, and how despite speculation all year he kept his redshirt. I also stated on multiple occasions that Joey could play at any point because you don’t apply for a redshirt until after the season. I doubt I ever definitively said “Joey Baker is not playing this year”. I did say that it was very, very unlikely based on the info we all had. It would take an unusual situation for him to play, and one occurred. All of that still holds. There were no indications prior to tonight that this would happen.

Please don’t put words into my mouth.

Tooold
02-23-2019, 09:26 PM
I actually thought he looked poised out there. Picked up a couple of rebounds and his one shot had good form and just missed. Thought he had a nice block right before the half that was called as a foul.

I agree completely. Joey took a confident shot that missed. He seemed to move the ball quickly, without hesitation. His block was very good but got a bad call. He has some bounce. Coach K said he has been playing well in practice and they need shooters. So I hope and guess they are bringing him in now in order to help him develop for the rest of the season. Maybe he just wasn’t ready earlier, but, IMO, it has always been unrealistic to think he would stay for 5 years to get the benefit of a redshirt.

buddy
02-23-2019, 09:27 PM
Jack has missed 25 straight 3 point attempts. His last made 3 was early in the second half against FSU. It is clear he has no confidence in his shot. His rebounding has remained strong, but he has become an offensive liability. Maybe (I hope) he had a bug tonight, because I miss his defense and hustle. But with Zion out and against the zone, a 3 point shooter who won't take the shot does not help. I also agree that Joey would not spend 5 years at Duke, or if he did he would be a disappointment. He may not get many minutes against VT (then again I expect us to go small against them), but he should be able to get minutes against Miami and Wake. By then Zion should be back for the finale, or we have real problems.

CoachJ10
02-23-2019, 09:27 PM
Will stay in the shadow of Zion (rightly so)...but man...he just delivers the goods.

AtlDuke72
02-23-2019, 09:28 PM
Yes, but at the same time he hadn’t played at all this year. They were clearly planning on redshirting him. The timing is odd. I hope it has more to do with White’s absence than Zion’s.

Still a lot of the season to go. Grayson Allen hardly played until the Wisconsin game.

uh_no
02-23-2019, 09:28 PM
Jack has missed 25 straight 3 point attempts. His last made 3 was early in the second half against FSU. It is clear he has no confidence in his shot. His rebounding has remained strong, but he has become an offensive liability. Maybe (I hope) he had a bug tonight, because I miss his defense and hustle. But with Zion out and against the zone, a 3 point shooter who won't take the shot does not help. I also agree that Joey would not spend 5 years at Duke, or if he did he would be a disappointment. He may not get many minutes against VT (then again I expect us to go small against them), but he should be able to get minutes against Miami and Wake. By then Zion should be back for the finale, or we have real problems.

I wondered too...but you'd think he wouldn't be on the bench then, or even travelling. We shall see.

lotusland
02-23-2019, 09:28 PM
Starting Alex might have been the key to unlocking his scoring. The bench just cannot score. Bolden’s 4 points were the grand total of our bench scoring tonight. I wonder if starting JGold would spark his scoring too?

jv001
02-23-2019, 09:31 PM
I agree completely. Joey took a confident shot that missed. He seemed to move the ball quickly, without hesitation. His block was very good but got a bad call. He has some bounce. Coach K said he has been playing well in practice and they need shooters. So I hope and guess they are bringing him in now in order to help him develop for the rest of the season. Maybe he just wasn’t ready earlier, but, IMO, it has always been unrealistic to think he would stay for 5 years to get the benefit of a redshirt.

With the way teams have been packing the lane against Zion, having a player than can knock down 3s is huge. Out of Cam, Alex, RJ, and possibly Joey gives us higher odds in making those shots. Surely one or more can get hot on a given night to unclog the paint for Zion to go to work. Super Z is pretty good at getting to the rim even with the lane clogged. GoDuke!

rocketeli
02-23-2019, 09:31 PM
Truth. It's just that offense (where RJ has been spectacular and Cam has been streaky) gets noticed much more than defense (where Cam is consistently strong and RJ too often takes plays off).

I remember the late great Al McGuire saying something once to the effect that it is very hard to be consistently focused and excellent on both offense and defense, for either a team or a player, so you basically have to pick one to focus on. Cam really seems by inclination or coaching direction to be especially focusing on defense, while RJ is offense. And generally it is offense that gets the highlight reels. After a player expends all the mental and physical energy on either one, it can be hard to be consistent the other way and thus Cam lacks focus on offense sometimes. I see why the NBA wants him, BTW--he is tall! He's almost as tall as Javin, even discounting the hair. He's a 6'9" guard and there aren't many of those. He's very athletic too. The NBA cares more about that (hops, upside, athleticism, potential, whatever they call it) than a streaky shot or a somewhat weak handle. They figure those can be fixed.

heyman25
02-23-2019, 09:33 PM
saying that reddish had a bad game, which is likely true, is different from saying "I don't understand what anyone sees in him", which you and others did.

(https://forums.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showthread.php?43279-MBB-Duke-75-Syracuse-65-Post-Game-Thread&p=1132156#post1132156)

Not what I said. NBA scouts think Reddish will be the 4th or 5th pick in the NBA lottery in June.
NBA scouts, not I don't understand what anyone sees in him.
uh_no that is my last post game comment.

KandG
02-23-2019, 09:33 PM
Starting Alex might have been the key to unlocking his scoring. The bench just cannot score. Bolden’s 4 points were the grand total of our bench scoring tonight. I wonder if starting JGold would spark his scoring too?

I assume this comment was made tongue in cheek? Because I'm not sure anything could unleash Goldwire as a scoring threat unless we decided to press a weak ball handling team the whole game.

I'm not bashing JGold at all...I love him as a defensive disruptor in tactical moments. But I don't think he'll ever be a scorer that contributes instant offense, either as a starter or as a super sub.

Faison1
02-23-2019, 09:34 PM
Thank Goodness!! Big sigh of relief!! Really impressed with how our guys pulled it together in the second half. You could just see how confident they became. Like they rediscovered themselves.

And just when I'd lost faith in AOC, he reminded me he has immense talent. Now let's see if his mental game will follow.

jv001
02-23-2019, 09:35 PM
I take it back and apologize. it was richardjackson. Very sorry to falsely accuse YOU. I feel like a democrat.

I should have saved that sporkzzz because this post is better than your last. GoDuke!

lotusland
02-23-2019, 09:39 PM
I assume this comment was made tongue in cheek? Because I'm not sure anything could unleash Goldwire as a scoring threat unless we decided to press a weak ball handling team the whole game.

I'm not bashing JGold at all...I love him as a defensive disruptor in tactical moments. But I don't think he'll ever be a scorer that contributes instant offense, either as a starter or as a super sub.

Yes tongue in cheek. JGold brought the excitement back to lay ups. I assume it’s nerves and he’ll improve but every shot is an adventure now.

Tooold
02-23-2019, 09:42 PM
With the way teams have been packing the lane against Zion, having a player than can knock down 3s is huge. Out of Cam, Alex, RJ, and possibly Joey gives us higher odds in making those shots. Surely one or more can get hot on a given night to unclog the paint for Zion to go to work. Super Z is pretty good at getting to the rim even with the lane clogged. GoDuke!
Great point. And reinforced by Scheyer’s halftime comment that they are trying to find someone who can shoot. I think they recognize that they need to have several options so hopefully one (or more) gets hot each night. In spite of K’s history of playing a very short bench, this year he seems to be looking deeper for some shooting (out of necessity).

Skydog
02-23-2019, 09:44 PM
...
Seeing Joey Baker and Vrankovic enter the game (ahead of Bolden no less) was definitely mind-blowing -- I had no idea what to think. My reaction (reinforced by the press conference) is that K feels we need more shooting...we can't get away with what we've shown to date, no matter how incredible our best players are. We're going to be seeing more zones, more gimmick defenses, and we need good confident shooters.
....

K needs to (do whatever he wants, but otherwise) think back to his 2010 team as a reminder that having better shooters isn't the only way to outscore an opponent. Getting more chances than your opponent works as well, as a certain former pastry maker can attest.

HereBeforeCoachK
02-23-2019, 09:45 PM
I actually thought he looked poised out there. Picked up a couple of rebounds and his one shot had good form and just missed. Thought he had a nice block right before the half that was called as a foul.

That was a great block......and for the other guy who said he looked scared? I think under the circumstances he looked great....first college game.....25th game for your team.....largest on campus crowd in college basketball history.....all in all, looked great. I don't like doing it now, when could've / should've been done weeks ago....but now he's in....and we'll likely need him.

BeachBlueDevil
02-23-2019, 09:48 PM
It's been said a million times so far, but AOC had a heck of a game. Need that moving forward from him. RJ also had a great game and twice now he has stepped up. Did it against UVA with Tre down and now Zion down. Honestly, like Bilas said tonight he the thinks RJ could possibly have a better career in the NBA than Zion and I think that is a huge possibility.

As far as burning Baker's redshirt.. Trust K on this. We'll be seeing more of Baker and I hope he can have a similar effect on the remainder of the season like Grayson had in 2015.

dukelion
02-23-2019, 09:52 PM
The reason Joey was a redshirt candidate in the first place was because he was clearly behind both Jack and AOC.....two guys who weren't going to get a ton minutes anyways.

Well, Jack's decline has been difficult to watch as it has been a spectacular fall. I still have faith in the kid but maybe some time on the bench will get him right.

So at this point with injuries, Jack's slump and just the lack of consistent shooters it was time to make the move. The timing is decent too as he'll still get a decent amount of exposure to ACC reg season and of course tourney play.

Listen, we're not winning this thing shooting under 30% from three. All we need is to get the number up to the respectable low to mid 30's and we're back to being the clear cut favorite.

Joey and AOC getting consistent mins the rest of the way is move K is making.

jv001
02-23-2019, 09:53 PM
That was a great block...and for the other guy who said he looked scared? I think under the circumstances he looked great...first college game....25th game for your team....largest on campus crowd in college basketball history....all in all, looked great. I don't like doing it now, when could've / should've been done weeks ago...but now he's in...and we'll likely need him.

HBCK, I wonder if Coach K has been thinking that Jack will regain his stroke because he sees him make them in practice and now he's not even making them in practice. This was as good a time as any for Joey to play. Even though it was against a tough zone team and in a place that seems to be hard to shoot the 3 ball. But he did get his feet wet and did ok. Now let's see he does going forward. GoDuke!

uh_no
02-23-2019, 09:55 PM
It's been said a million times so far, but AOC had a heck of a game. Need that moving forward from him. RJ also had a great game and twice now he has stepped up. Did it against UVA with Tre down and now Zion down. Honestly, like Bilas said tonight he the thinks RJ could possibly have a better career in the NBA than Zion and I think that is a huge possibility.

As far as burning Baker's redshirt.. Trust K on this. We'll be seeing more of Baker and I hope he can have a similar effect on the remainder of the season like Grayson had in 2015.

I think hall of fame is the ceiling for either. Zion is incredibly finishing around the gift, and more athletic. RJ is the better shooter. I think RJ's shot aligns him slightly more with today's NBA, but what's so intriguing about Zion is there has never been a player like him...ever....and you can't teach his physique....

ncexnyc
02-23-2019, 10:09 PM
Plenty to talk about after tonight's game so let me get started.

I was fairly certain Alex would get the start tonight based on his previous outing against Syracuse. I've seen a number of people getting really excited about his play tonight, but let's take a very deep breath and remember Syracuse is the perfect match-up for him based on their defensive scheme. Alex's biggest problems come when a defender gets up in his grill as all he does at that point in time is dance around the perimeter and pass off to a teammate. I thought he did a solid job on the defensive end tonight and only recall him getting burnt on a backdoor play, but that was just as much the fault of the man who was guarding Dolezaj and was sagging too far off of him, instead of being up on him. I also have an issue with him not playing with reckless abandon when it comes to going after loose balls. He always seems willing to pull-up in order to avoid possible contact.

I guess the biggest story to come out of today's game was the fact that Baker burned his red shirt. I'd love to hear how that decision was made and what factors played into it. I'm not buying it was solely done, because we need 3 pt shooting when AOC has been available the whole time. What's even more surprising was he only got 5 minutes of play and all of those in the 1st half.

I thought RJ was fantastic tonight and his play when Zion has been absent shows why you need a talented alpha dog on your team. There's something special to be said about a kid who isn't afraid to carry a team on his shoulders.

Can we get a little love for Cam tonight? I realize he didn't have a good game on the offensive end of the court, but man he's a major load on the defensive end of the court.

Nice to see Tre hit some shots tonight. Granted they were from close in, but several came with Chuku right in his face.

I can't forget the play of both Javin and Bolden. When Javin stays on the court he can be a difference maker. As for Bolden, I loved the way he closed out the game. Very, very strong play on his part.

uh_no
02-23-2019, 10:12 PM
Plenty to talk about after tonight's game so let me get started.

I was fairly certain Alex would get the start tonight based on his previous outing against Syracuse.

I guess the biggest story to come out of today's game was the fact that Baker burned his red shirt. I'd love to hear how that decision was made and what factors played into it.

I think i win the wrongest award for betting Jack would get the nod! and subsequently, I think the co-biggest story is Jack not playing. It's intrigue....to what degree were any or all of baker, white, and williamson's situations intertwined? or not at all? I'm sure it will all come out in time.

Skydog
02-23-2019, 10:14 PM
A few sweet stats:

RJ - 12-15 2pt, 2-5 3pt, 5 reb, 7 assists.

AOC - 5-8 3pt, 3-3 ft, 5 reb.

Bolden - 10 min, 8 rebounds.

Team - 14/16 ft, 87.5%

AtlDuke72
02-23-2019, 10:18 PM
I think there's more of a reason. I think he was probably playing really well in practice and Jack has been a no-show the past month. I think that has more to do with it than Duke needing him to win this game, they obviously didn't.

Also, if coach tells you you're going to play, and you have the chance to contribute to a title caliber team, kinda hard to pass up.

The team is 325th in the country in 3 point shooting. Does giving Baker a chance to play really need any further explanation ?

Skydog
02-23-2019, 10:18 PM
..
I was fairly certain Alex would get the start tonight based on his previous outing against Syracuse. I've seen a number of people getting really excited about his play tonight, but let's take a very deep breath and remember Syracuse is the perfect match-up for him based on their defensive scheme. Alex's biggest problems come when a defender gets up in his grill as all he does at that point in time is dance around the perimeter and pass off to a teammate. ....

Very good point.

Bluedog
02-23-2019, 10:21 PM
Great win! Loved what I saw from RJ and AOC but definitely a team win. Question for the board: what do you think of players passing up wide open layups at the end of the game and instead burning a few more seconds off the clock? Like what happened with AOC at the end when he was cherry picking and got a great pass so a wide open path to the hoop but he didn't take it and instead waited for cuse to catch up and foul him. At least, AOC is a great FT shooter but I personally would take the guaranteed 2 points rather than take 5 more seconds off the clock and risk FTs. Is that just me? There's a fine line though because I've seen guys take contested shots when they should have burned clock but he was literally wide open with nobody in front of him in this case.

dukelion
02-23-2019, 10:21 PM
Also have to wonder if the starting 5 when Zion comes back is with him at the 5 and AOC at the 2.

I know we've seen it in spurts this year but perhaps it becomes our new go to lineup.

uh_no
02-23-2019, 10:22 PM
The team is 325th in the country in 3 point shooting. Does giving Baker a chance to play really need any further explanation ?

yes. when you've already played 25 games...why tonight? why not when Tre went out a month ago? Why not at the start of the season? Why not 4 days ago against UNC? Why did K decide today suddenly that Joey was essential enough to this team's eligibility to effectively eliminate a year of eligibility and leave jack on the bench? There's too much else going on for it to all be coincidental.

I'd believe, perhaps, if K believed that Zion would not be back, or that he thought we were exposed if Zion got in foul trouble and didn't realize how ineffective we would be without Zion.

kshepinthehouse
02-23-2019, 10:23 PM
Great win! Loved what I saw from RJ and AOC but definitely a team win. Question for the board: what do you think of players passing up wide open layups at the end of the game and instead burning a few more seconds off the clock? Like what happened with AOC at the end when he was cherry picking and got a great pass so a wide open path to the hoop but he didn't take it and instead waited for cuse to catch up and foul him. At least, AOC is a great FT shooter but I personally would take the guaranteed 2 points rather than take 5 more seconds off the clock and risk FTs. Is that just me? There's a fine line though because I've seen guys take contested shots when they should have burned clock but he was literally wide open with nobody in front of him in this case.

I thought he should have dunked it as well.

sagegrouse
02-23-2019, 10:24 PM
Still a lot of the season to go. Grayson Allen hardly played until the Wisconsin game.

Except that Grayson has 27 against Wake on March 4, 2015. "Grayson's winning" chant from the Crazies.

uh_no
02-23-2019, 10:25 PM
I thought he should have dunked it as well.

I can see both responses...and thought it was super borderline...while I was surprised he didn't take the points, I can't REALLY fault him for trying to burn more clock...and he simply didn't do it as effectively as could have been done. HE hit the shots, though, so it was all for the best.

fathippo
02-23-2019, 10:35 PM
HBCK, I wonder if Coach K has been thinking that Jack will regain his stroke because he sees him make them in practice and now he's not even making them in practice. This was as good a time as any for Joey to play. Even though it was against a tough zone team and in a place that seems to be hard to shoot the 3 ball. But he did get his feet wet and did ok. Now let's see he does going forward. GoDuke!

I don't know about practice, but during pre-game and halftime shootaround in Cameron Jack seemingly doesn't miss. That is why is has been so baffling to see him miss 28 of his last 29 3's. I think the coaching staff has been very patience with him but decided a change had to be made. Hopefully a break from game action will do him some good.

Furniture
02-23-2019, 10:42 PM
Tre Jones v. Tyus Battle. Battle got 16 points tonight vs 32 in the first game. 12 made shots in the first game, 4 tonight. Lost by 4 in the first game without Jones. Won by 10 tonight with him.

ncexnyc
02-23-2019, 10:44 PM
Also have to wonder if the starting 5 when Zion comes back is with him at the 5 and AOC at the 2.

I know we've seen it in spurts this year but perhaps it becomes our new go to lineup.

An interesting question, but how much stock do you put in AOC's game against Syracuse? This is after all his second quality outing against the very same opponent. What happens when we face a tough man to man defense? Does he get the same open looks? Does he play confidently enough with the ball where he isn't afraid to take the ball to the basket in an attempt to make a play?

simplyluvin
02-23-2019, 10:47 PM
Alex O’Connell - zone killer. If you told me without Zion that Cam would shoot 18% and have 5 points, I would have thought this was game I gotta to be a painful evening. But AOC made up for it, we cleaned up the boards, and hit our free throws. Would love to see Alex shoot with that level I’d confidence against non-zone defenses.

Like many here, I’m not sure about burning Joey’s redshirt, but let’s see how good he is. Coach sees that we need better shooting going into March. That may be the underlying concern.

AtlDuke72
02-23-2019, 10:52 PM
Coach K really should have polled all the coaches on DBR before making the move.

Reddevil
02-23-2019, 10:53 PM
Does this necessarily "burn" the redshirt? I thought one could redshirt based on a % of games or time played. Amile played four games I think and got a redshirt year. Does that only apply to injuries?

simplyluvin
02-23-2019, 10:56 PM
Does this necessarily "burn" the redshirt? I thought one could redshirt based on a % of games or time played. Amile played four games I think and got a redshirt year. Does that only apply to injuries?

Redshirt is burned. Amile received a medical hardship waiver because he played less than 20% of the seasons games.

sagegrouse
02-23-2019, 10:56 PM
Does this necessarily "burn" the redshirt? I thought one could redshirt based on a % of games or time played. Amile played four games I think and got a redshirt year. Does that only apply to injuries?

Amile got a medical redshirt. Joey Baker has burned a year of eligibility.

hustleplays
02-23-2019, 11:05 PM
I never really understood the Baker redshirt concept, as I don’t see him staying 5 years. I just don’t understand why K waited until now.

I agree that Bolden coming in for Javin seemed to solidify the win. He is just much better at holding onto rebounds and finishing his dunks. I wonder if we could have had 6-8 more points in first half if he had played more. But who amI to question the GOaT.

Scheyer said during halftime interview that they were trying to find someone who could shoot...so I think that explains some of the personnel usage. Thankfully AOC came through!

Regarding Baker, we know that he is supposed to be a really good perimeter shooter. This year's team has been dismal shooting treys, and consistently poor outside shooting makes a national championship that much harder.

I suppose that Coach K expected, early in the season, that our 3 pt shooting would be better than it has been, in that we have AOD, Reddish, White and even Tre J, who, one might expect, given his athleticism and ability to hit shorter shots, would gradually improve from beyond the perimeter. The marginal utility of bringing in Baker to improve our perimeter shooting, at the expense of burning a year of eligibility, when we had so many prospectively talented shooters, seemed negative.

Plus, we have had so many very talented starters and bench players. Baker's replacing any starter or top sub would be a tough trade-off.

That said, as the season has progressed, I have questioned why Baker was not brought in earlier, given that he would not likely stay for five years anyway, and given that it looks like we are majorly lacking in only one major championship winning dimension: hitting from downtown.

Finally, I don't think that Baker's number of minutes tonight is predictive of his burn going forward. If he can make treys at a high level, we will need him and he will play...though his defense needs to be at least adequate. Jury out on that.

Saratoga2
02-23-2019, 11:06 PM
Got back late but watched the recorded game before knowing the result.

RJ had a tremendous game and Syr was really unable to stop him and resorted to help in the second half.

I wouldn't comment on Joey Baker/Jack White as I remember RJ was sick with a stomach virus just recently. There are many possibilities for why coach K played the people he did and I will await a more fact based explanation.

Alex has been an enigma this year. He has size, quickness, length, hops and nice form on his shot but mostly didn't threaten the defense, but passed the ball off quickly. Tonight he was more ready to shoot and perhaps had been told to get off the stick and put the ball up. BB IQ is knowing when to make a play. It came together for him tonight and between RJ and Alex we got 50 points.

Tre made a determined defensive effort tonight and was very effective. He also picked his spots to score in double figures. Very good effort by Tre.

Cam looks solid on defense with his length and quickness but he was careless with the ball on offense and shot poorly. We simply need him to provide more offense. It is easy to forget that he is only an inexperienced freshment and will have his ups and downs. Fouling a 3 point shooter late in the game is typical of a guy who is not focussed.Note that coach K played him the full 40 minutes.

I did not have the same positive feeling about Javin and Marques. Both did play hard but Javin doesn't have the strength to battle for the ball inside and he foulsall to often. He cannot catch the ball and finish around the rim with regularity. Clearly he works very hard and he is what we have for mobile front court presence without Zion. Marques also worked hard and did a nice job rebounding late, but he also stepped out of bounds to turn the ball over and went over the back with clock time being more important than getting the ball. Didn't seem to be aware of the game situation. Both Javin and Marques need to know and play the situation but appear to be caught up in the fury of the moment.

kako
02-23-2019, 11:16 PM
5 thoughts:

1. Barrett just gets buckets. And buckets. And buckets. He ability to play in traffic is amazing. That left-handed scoop shot after he spun around, high off the glass, was the kind of shot that makes him special. MOTM.

2. I've been hoping AOC could find confidence and shoot the ball. BANG, today was the day. Hopefully he can continue this, and not just against the Orangemen. With Reddish's shot going south, AOC filled in perfectly.

3. You just can't go for easy lobs against the Cuse. They are so long-armed. Straight line lobs just don't work well. I was screaming at the after the first few - no more friggin' lobs unless Jones is throwing them.

4. Bolden played so well after sitting so long in the game. 8 boards in 10 minutes. Again, Barrett was the man, and AOC was needed, but I think Duke also doesn't win without Bolden's boards down the stretch.

5. I assume K's plan is to work Baker into the rotation, and perhaps his minutes were going to be limited regardless today. I'm fine with burning the red shirt, even if he plays a limited role down the stretch. What this team lacks is reliable outside shooting. Sometimes Barrett can provide it, sometimes Reddish, sometimes (now) AOC. If Baker can also step into such a role, I'll take it. He may take White's spot. I feel for White, but bottom line is that he is not producing well these days. And it's just not his shot. Right now, there are better options than him to put on the court.

9F

richardjackson199
02-23-2019, 11:18 PM
I take it back and apologize. it was richardjackson. Very sorry to falsely accuse YOU. I feel like a democrat.

However, it DOESN'T MATTER WHETHER THERE WAS NO INDICATION HE WOULD PLAY. HE WAS IN UNIFORM. Uniform = available

I have never insisted or insinuated that Joey Baker would not play this season. Quite the opposite. On several occasions I have stated that given the change in circumstances we should ask the question if maybe Joey should burn the redshirt and play this season. I have argued that if he could help this team win a championship I think maybe it's worth it to play him now. He is known as a great 3 point shooter and this team needs that. We've had recent big injuries. Bench players who previously were shooting 3's well now are not. When I asked that recently I was asked politely by a couple posters to not bring it up again. Just wanted to set the record straight on what I said and what i never said.

The fact that Baker played tells me that the staff did what I was hoping. They kept an open mind given the change in circumstances of our team. They realized that this team has a great chance to win it all, and that anything we can do to go all-in and give this team the best possible chance to win is worth it. I hope Baker has a great rest of the season and was thrilled to see him in the game.

dukelion
02-23-2019, 11:33 PM
An interesting question, but how much stock do you put in AOC's game against Syracuse? This is after all his second quality outing against the very same opponent. What happens when we face a tough man to man defense? Does he get the same open looks? Does he play confidently enough with the ball where he isn't afraid to take the ball to the basket in an attempt to make a play?

All good points but playing AOC seems worth the risk at this point considering the alternatives.

uh_no
02-23-2019, 11:39 PM
All good points but playing AOC seems worth the risk at this point considering the alternatives.

If it means one person has to think about staying on the arc instead of collapsing on a driving zion or RJ, it's worth it IMO.

DukieInBrasil
02-23-2019, 11:55 PM
Listen, we're not winning this thing shooting under 30% from three. All we need is to get the number up to the respectable low to mid 30's and we're back to being the clear cut favorite.
There's no way to really defend this statement. We've been a 30% 3FG shooting team all year, and it sure looks like we are championship quality. We don't necessarily need to shoot 30% in every game to win every game. We shot 31% tonight, and would have won if we had missed a couple more 3s, which would have been somewhere between 20-25%. Now, no team shoots the same % every night, so the variability around 30% is really the key. I would agree with you if you were to say that if we shoot 10% from 3 (which we have done, and worse, this year) during an NCAAT game that we would have a very high chance of an early exit. I just think blanket statements like the bolded one are not worth entertaining.


Great win! Loved what I saw from RJ and AOC but definitely a team win. Question for the board: what do you think of players passing up wide open layups at the end of the game and instead burning a few more seconds off the clock? Like what happened with AOC at the end when he was cherry picking and got a great pass so a wide open path to the hoop but he didn't take it and instead waited for cuse to catch up and foul him. At least, AOC is a great FT shooter but I personally would take the guaranteed 2 points rather than take 5 more seconds off the clock and risk FTs. Is that just me? There's a fine line though because I've seen guys take contested shots when they should have burned clock but he was literally wide open with nobody in front of him in this case.
I think dunking it woulda been better, guaranteed 2 points. The biggest factor would be to consider what the bonus foul situation was at the time. If it was still in the 1n1, then absolutely go ahead and dunk it. If it was double bonus, then i think the risk is maybe worth it. Still, i'd advise the dunk.





Alex has been an enigma this year. He has size, quickness, length, hops and nice form on his shot but mostly didn't threaten the defense, but passed the ball off quickly. Tonight he was more ready to shoot and perhaps had been told to get off the stick and put the ball up. BB IQ is knowing when to make a play. It came together for him tonight and between RJ and Alex we got 50 points.

Tre made a determined defensive effort tonight and was very effective. He also picked his spots to score in double figures. Very good effort by Tre.

I did not have the same positive feeling about Javin and Marques. Both did play hard but Javin doesn't have the strength to battle for the ball inside and he foulsall to often. He cannot catch the ball and finish around the rim with regularity. Clearly he works very hard and he is what we have for mobile front court presence without Zion. Marques also worked hard and did a nice job rebounding late, but he also stepped out of bounds to turn the ball over and went over the back with clock time being more important than getting the ball. Didn't seem to be aware of the game situation. Both Javin and Marques need to know and play the situation but appear to be caught up in the fury of the moment.
First, Tre shot terribly, 2-12 FGs, so i'm not sure which spots he was picking. He made all of his FTs though, so that was good. He did defend very well.
Our two-headed C provided 15 rebs and 9 pts and 3 blocks. I'd say the effort was there. Javin does have bad hands, the worst for a Duke player since Casey Sanders. He also has a really bad habit of bringing the ball down to dribble when he's got the athleticism to go strait to the rim. He hit 3 of his 4 FTs tonight, so that was nice.

uh_no
02-24-2019, 12:04 AM
First, Tre shot terribly, 2-12 FGs, so i'm not sure which spots he was picking. He made all of his FTs though, so that was good. He did defend very well.
Our two-headed C provided 15 rebs and 9 pts and 3 blocks. I'd say the effort was there. Javin does have bad hands, the worst for a Duke player since Casey Sanders. He also has a really bad habit of bringing the ball down to dribble when he's got the athleticism to go strait to the rim. He hit 3 of his 4 FTs tonight, so that was nice.

I'd throw generic "underclassman plumlee" into the mix.

devildeac
02-24-2019, 12:05 AM
Hard fought win. D got much better the last 10. Still, I think Cuse helped us out missing some good opportunities and free throws because we sure made some mistakes down the stretch. Bolden was huge. AOC wow. RJ kept us in it until he got some help. I am befuddled with Reddish.. I keep waiting for some consistency from him.

Our esteemed poster who kept hammering for Baker to play..I think that poster should be the Baker No Longer a Redshirt thread starter because the Baker decision will surely be talked about. I think Coach K has been seeing something in practice from him & he knows the outside shooting in suspect. He has a team that has a chance to win it all and possibly a few minutes in a crucial game from Baker could be the difference. You never know. I certainly don't think it was based on the game tonight.

Tough road win. Been a long week. Might be time for a celebratory beer..

Which one?

https://forums.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showthread.php?3840-Ymm-Beer

:D

KandG
02-24-2019, 12:06 AM
Question for the board: what do you think of players passing up wide open layups at the end of the game and instead burning a few more seconds off the clock? Like what happened with AOC at the end when he was cherry picking and got a great pass so a wide open path to the hoop but he didn't take it and instead waited for cuse to catch up and foul him. At least, AOC is a great FT shooter but I personally would take the guaranteed 2 points rather than take 5 more seconds off the clock and risk FTs. Is that just me? There's a fine line though because I've seen guys take contested shots when they should have burned clock but he was literally wide open with nobody in front of him in this case.

My instinct corresponds to yours: Alex had the layup/dunk and should have just taken it, rather than face the potential of missing one or two FTs for the sake of wasting a few seconds.

To add some context though: a few minutes before that, Alex was wide open after Duke beat the press and took a quick 3 with 4:19 on the clock (and a lot of time on the shot clock) and Duke up 65-58. Bolden rebounded Alex's miss but then turned it over. Syracuse ended up missing a shot on the next possession and then Duke called a timeout. Duke missed the next possession as well and Cuse got the lead down to 65-60 before we managed to close it out.

Just speculating here, but I assume Alex was told during the timeout that as well as he was shooting all game, it was too early to take that shot with over four minutes left in the game, and he probably should have held the ball up and milked more clock. That might have contributed to his conservative approach in the dying seconds, even though an open layup with an 8 point lead and 53 seconds left would have been fine.

InSpades
02-24-2019, 12:13 AM
RJ played one of his best games of the year. 30 points on 20 shots w/ 7 assists and only 3 turnovers. We really needed him to carry a big load on offense and he did just that. If RJ can be this efficient on offense and Zion gets back to being Zion... look out.

If RJ didn't play so well I'd give MotM to Alex. We needed someone else to contribute on offense and he really stepped up. He's the best looking 3-point shooter on this team.

We shot 14 3s in the 2nd half, compared to 15 in the 1st half. Which doesn't seem that much different but the offense looked a lot better in the 2nd half. For a few different reasons... obviously the success from 3 was different but that was almost entirely attributable to Alex who went 4 of 6 in the 2nd half (the rest of the team was 2 of 8). We managed to get to the line 14 times in the 2nd half compared to just 2 times in the 1st half. We also got 10 offensive rebounds in the 2nd half compared to just 4 in the 1st half.

I'm not going to say I understand the rotation... gotta just believe in K. Vrank and Baker as the 1st 2 subs? Jack out for the whole game. Marques sitting for so long. Gotta believe some of it was sending a message. I hope he makes use of Baker now that his redshirt is gone. Tough position to put him in sitting out so much. Hopefully he's up for it, we could use him.

Cam needs to make better decisions. Even the 3 he hit in the 2nd half was a really bad shot that was totally out of the offensive rhythm. It just felt like he thought "I haven't shot in a while, let's see how this goes".

robed deity
02-24-2019, 12:18 AM
RJ played one of his best games of the year. 30 points on 20 shots w/ 7 assists and only 3 turnovers. We really needed him to carry a big load on offense and he did just that. If RJ can be this efficient on offense and Zion gets back to being Zion... look out.

If RJ didn't play so well I'd give MotM to Alex. We needed someone else to contribute on offense and he really stepped up. He's the best looking 3-point shooter on this team.

We shot 14 3s in the 2nd half, compared to 15 in the 1st half. Which doesn't seem that much different but the offense looked a lot better in the 2nd half. For a few different reasons... obviously the success from 3 was different but that was almost entirely attributable to Alex who went 4 of 6 in the 2nd half (the rest of the team was 2 of 8). We managed to get to the line 14 times in the 2nd half compared to just 2 times in the 1st half. We also got 10 offensive rebounds in the 2nd half compared to just 4 in the 1st half.

I'm not going to say I understand the rotation... gotta just believe in K. Vrank and Baker as the 1st 2 subs? Jack out for the whole game. Marques sitting for so long. Gotta believe some of it was sending a message. I hope he makes use of Baker now that his redshirt is gone. Tough position to put him in sitting out so much. Hopefully he's up for it, we could use him.

Cam needs to make better decisions. Even the 3 he hit in the 2nd half was a really bad shot that was totally out of the offensive rhythm. It just felt like he thought "I haven't shot in a while, let's see how this goes".

K wanted a timeout and was yelling for one right as Cam shot that. A classic no, no, no- yes moment.

Kedsy
02-24-2019, 12:31 AM
ADVANCED STATS

Possessions: 66.3 (just under Syracuse's adjusted season average, meaning the Orange won the battle of the pace)

OFFENSE

oRtg: 1.13 (our adjusted oRtg was 1.25, pretty good for a Zion-less team that everyone around here had no offensive ability)
eFG%: 51.7% (OK, not great)
3pt%: 31.0% (an average shooting performance was apparently all we needed)
2pt%: 56.7% (good, although worse than our season average)
%threes: 49.2% (less than the first time against Syracuse, less than against UNC, but still waaaaay too many)
FT rate: 27.1% (2nd straight low-ish performance)
OR%: 40.0% (good)
TO%: 19.6% (at least it was under 20%)
a/to: 1.23:1
%assisted: 61.5%
fast break pts: 6 (8.0% of our points; in our last eleven conference games, we've only had fast breaks comprise more than 12.1% of our points twice -- both against Virginia)


DEFENSE

dRtg: 0.98 (adjusted that's 0.94; decent, not great)
eFG%: 37.9% (outstanding; our 2nd best opposing eFG% in conference play)
3pt%: 21.7% (good)
2pt%: 40.4% (very good; 3rd best opposing 2-pt% in conference play)
%threes: 32.9%
FT rate: 27.1% (meh)
DR%: 61.2% (pretty bad)
TO%: 10.5% (lowest opposing TO% of the season)
a/to: 1:71 (after a long string of games with 1:1 or below, we've had three straight of the opposite)
%assisted: 50.0%
fast break pts: 6 (12.8% of their points)
block%: 8.6%; 12.8% of 2-point shots (good, considering we played without Zion, thanks primarily to Javin)
steal%: 3.0% (awful; breaks a streak of nine straight game above 10%)


10-point road win without our best player? Yes, please.

TNTDevil
02-24-2019, 12:36 AM
Redshirt is burned. Amile received a medical hardship waiver because he played less than 20% of the seasons games.
WADR, who gives a flying fling-flako if the redshirt was burned? How many very talented freshman have spent the majority of their freshman year resting their arse on Royal Blue (or Pantone WGAF) nagahyde under the GOAT?

Team needs him to go in, he goes in. End of story.

Of course, I'm sure all youse keyboard kommandos know way more than Mike Krahshoeski.

As devoted fans, we may know alot but, we don't know everything. Let <expletive deleted> play out and enjoy the ride.

Peace, yo.

dukelion
02-24-2019, 12:41 AM
There's no way to really defend this statement. We've been a 30% 3FG shooting team all year, and it sure looks like we are championship quality. We don't necessarily need to shoot 30% in every game to win every game. We shot 31% tonight, and would have won if we had missed a couple more 3s, which would have been somewhere between 20-25%. Now, no team shoots the same % every night, so the variability around 30% is really the key. I would agree with you if you were to say that if we shoot 10% from 3 (which we have done, and worse, this year) during an NCAAT game that we would have a very high chance of an early exit. I just think blanket statements like the bolded one are not worth entertaining.

Also hard to defend saying that if we missed two more threes we still win the game as those misses lead to a myriad of variability.

Listen.....I've seen the stats on poor 3pt shooting teams that have won a NCAA championship and would be thrilled to shoot what some of them did (low 30's). Thing is....we're on a trend into the 20's which means the likelihood of a 2-20 night in the NCAAT is fast approaching becoming a reality.

So trying to be the worst 3pt shooting team ever to win a championship is definitely a statement worth entertaining.

camion
02-24-2019, 12:45 AM
I’m having a pleasant evening/morning following a solid Duke road win.

Kudos to the team and coaching staff. Life is good. :)

bigperm13
02-24-2019, 01:33 AM
The reading of the tea leaves with the ultra microscopes is exhausting. Coach K said Zion is progressing as expected and all the news about his knee is positive. Just because he winced doesn’t mean his knee is getting worse. Maybe he farted. Even Zion farts.

TNTDevil
02-24-2019, 01:34 AM
Continuing on with my "Old man yells at clouds" series:
How do these kids keep jumping, running out of their shoes? (No, I'm not discussing ZOMGW's blow-out.) Seriously, how to you play D-1 basketball with your shoes so loose, they can literally slip off your foot? I mean RJ was able to put his shoe on without loosening the laces?

Kids and they're new fangled sneakers.

And, I'VE SEEN YOU WALKING ACROSS MY LAWN! NEXT TIME PAL...

Jim3k
02-24-2019, 03:36 AM
Bring back the Converse All-Stars.

Steven43
02-24-2019, 03:48 AM
Amile got a medical redshirt. Joey Baker has burned a year of eligibility.

Hmm, referring to it as "burned" seems to carry a negative connotation. That's probably not the message you were trying to convey, but still. Some posters (not you) are talking as if Baker sat on the bench the entire season until Coach K played him in the second half of the NCAA championship game -- a move I would have been perfectly fine with if it were to help Duke win the title. There are still several regular season games left to play (including the rematch in the Smith Center), the ACC tournament, and the NCAA tournament. Plenty of opportunities for Baker to contribute. I think by the end of the season it will become obvious that Coach K made the correct decision.

bigperm13
02-24-2019, 05:15 AM
Hmm, referring to it as "burned" seems to carry a negative connotation. That's probably not the message you were trying to convey, but still. Some posters (not you) are talking as if Baker sat on the bench the entire season until Coach K played him in the second half of the NCAA championship game -- a move I would have been perfectly fine with if it were to help Duke win the title. There are still several regular season games left to play (including the rematch in the Smith Center), the ACC tournament, and the NCAA tournament. Plenty of opportunities for Baker to contribute. I think by the end of the season it will become obvious that Coach K made the correct decision.

We don't agree at all on Westbrook but we agree completely here. He's in the team photo. His signature is on both my poster and basketball. He's participated in every practice. Coach K thought he looked ready so now he's gonna get some burn. And Duke just got deeper. Was he nervous and did he get lost a bit? Of course. The circumstances surrounding this game were extraordinary. Also, thought his block was clean and the 3 attempt looked pure. Zion will be the one going most crazy when he scores his first points on Tuesday night.

devilnfla
02-24-2019, 07:14 AM
yes. when you've already played 25 games...why tonight? why not when Tre went out a month ago? Why not at the start of the season? Why not 4 days ago against UNC? Why did K decide today suddenly that Joey was essential enough to this team's eligibility to effectively eliminate a year of eligibility and leave jack on the bench? There's too much else going on for it to all be coincidental.

I'd believe, perhaps, if K believed that Zion would not be back, or that he thought we were exposed if Zion got in foul trouble and didn't realize how ineffective we would be without Zion.

Why tonight? Because perhaps he thought it was time. Just my guess, but when Tre got hurt, Jack wasn't really slumping yet. He had just 1 bad game against Syracuse. Why not start of the season? Everyone had to think AOC, Cam and Jack would be better and more consistent then what's played out. Why not 4 days ago against UNC? Really? He struggled to get the others adjusted in that game after Zion's injury. I'm not sure how you would expect Joey to come into that game and make a difference.

Saratoga2
02-24-2019, 07:33 AM
“Well, it is not just adjusting without Zion, the last 48 hours, everybody has opinions about everything. It is not just playing, its
amateurism. Thursday for me, was one of the toughest 24 hours I have had as a coach at Duke. One, getting over the psychological
stuff that happened to our team. We were not back. I met with almost every one of my guys individually. The three freshmen,
together and just asking them ‘how did they feel’ and ‘how do they feel now’ and while trying to handle whatever else was
happening. Thank goodness I have a great team around me – my support people. I asked my team, ‘we just went through hell these
last 24 hours’, and I could depend on everybody. We need to be that team, where you can depend on everybody, and they were. I
am really proud of my team.”

I wonder how others read this part of his press conference? Was this in relation to how the pundits were suggesting that Zion shouldn't play again and risk injury with such a big payday forthcoming? Or was there more to these comments. He said we went throughh hell this past 24 hours and he needed to know he could depend on everybody. He talked to every player indiviually. Did this spawn some of the odd substitutions such as Baker, Vrank and others coming in? Sounds like a lot was going on behind the scenes than we have been aware of. Anyone closer to the team understand the words, which appear pretty guarded and subtle to me?

lotusland
02-24-2019, 07:56 AM
Which one?

https://forums.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showthread.php?3840-Ymm-Beer

:D

One with the most corn syrup. I just love corn syrup. Extra corn syrup please.

HereBeforeCoachK
02-24-2019, 08:06 AM
Coach K really should have polled all the coaches on DBR before making the move.

Logic would certainly suggest that if using up a year for 5 games plus the post season is the right thing to do, then using up that same year for 15 games and the post season is even better. I'm betting if you polled Coach K and the staff today, they'd say, in retrospect that making the Baker move a few weeks ago would've been better.

If you follow the debate on this thru DBR, there were kind of two camps: A: those who said that playing Baker is worth considering, due to our 3 point shooting situation, and since there's no guarantee he'd stay 5 years anyway...and B: those who said that was crazy, that Baker and his Dad had a deal with K that this year was a red shirt year, period, and even some who used statistics to show that surely Baker is indeed a 5 year player based on his rating as a recruit. Then I guess there's a group C, who had no opinion.

Today you would think that group A has kind of been vindicated, and are wondering why not earlier.....and yet, I'm sensing some pushback on that.

CarmenWallaceWade
02-24-2019, 08:07 AM
I hope it’s not lost on folks how well this team continues to respond to adversity. Consider our fight against teams like Gonzaga and Louisville who were crushing us in the second half. And then suffering disappointing losses after early-in-game injuries to two of our most critical players...

Just like the UVA game after Jones’s injury, this was a huge test for this team and they passed, again. Injuries create opportunity and AoC took advantage. If he can be consistent and give us outside shooting the rest of the way we will be in a really good position when Zion returns.

Realize we are coming to the end of a ridiculously tough 6 game stretch where we are 4-1 with two of those games played without the best player in the country. K and the staff are doing a masterful job of weathering the storm. If we are healthy come tournament time, I will really like our chances.

Indoor66
02-24-2019, 08:13 AM
I can see both responses...and thought it was super borderline...while I was surprised he didn't take the points, I can't REALLY fault him for trying to burn more clock...and he simply didn't do it as effectively as could have been done. HE hit the shots, though, so it was all for the best.

I haven't gone back to look again, but at the time I thought it was a smart move. The defender was closing rapidly and appeared to have the angle on Alex. Sometimes expedience is the better part of valor. We did not need the points at that time but we did need the ball.

Troublemaker
02-24-2019, 08:21 AM
RJ's best game was still when he played PG against UVA with Tre Jones out and had only 1 turnover while scoring 30 points on 19 shots, including going 10 for 13 from 2-pt range against the Pack Line. I can see why people would think this Syracuse game was his best, though, so I won't fight you to the death over it.

As for Joey, it seems pretty simple to me. Joey is another arrow in Coach K's quiver now. Ask UVA, Gonzaga, UK, Michigan, TN, UNC fans if they're happy that Duke has another 3-pt shooting option now -- my guess is they're not. Coach K might *not* use Joey all that differently going forward. I would recommend that Joey hits the first three that he puts up -- because that could take a 4-minute stint and turn it into 15 minutes of playing time. Why now? Because Duke has been shooting the ball well in practice, and the coaches have been waiting for it to translate into games, but at some point, you have to stop waiting. It would've been nice to have our practice shooting show up so we could redshirt Joey, but it didn't so we won't. Simple.

As for Jack and Marques -- I'm less confident about this, but knowing Coach K, he probably sensed leadership failure in the UNC game. When disaster strikes (Zion getting injured), it's okay for the young players to be shell-shocked, but he needs his juniors to react strongly and lead the way. If you asked Coach K, he would probably say that Jack and Marques didn't have strong faces against UNC while Javin did or something like that. So this was sending a message. I suspect Marques and Jack will go back to their regular spots in the rotation going forward. Marques for sure, but Jack obviously has a new competitor now in Joey.

freshmanjs
02-24-2019, 08:25 AM
“Well, it is not just adjusting without Zion, the last 48 hours, everybody has opinions about everything. It is not just playing, its
amateurism. Thursday for me, was one of the toughest 24 hours I have had as a coach at Duke. One, getting over the psychological
stuff that happened to our team. We were not back. I met with almost every one of my guys individually. The three freshmen,
together and just asking them ‘how did they feel’ and ‘how do they feel now’ and while trying to handle whatever else was
happening. Thank goodness I have a great team around me – my support people. I asked my team, ‘we just went through hell these
last 24 hours’, and I could depend on everybody. We need to be that team, where you can depend on everybody, and they were. I
am really proud of my team.”



"Knocked back", not "not back"

rocketeli
02-24-2019, 08:32 AM
Why, why why? Why did Coach K play Joey Baker? What will he do with him going forward? Why did Jack White sit the whole game out? Injured? Discipline? Why didn't Marques Bolden start, or play much to the second half? Why O'Connell?

No, it's not the DBR posters--it's opposing coaching staffs, tossing and turning in bed last night, trying to figure it all out.

One of the problems of being Duke, as we've seen in past seasons, is that your game is exposed by February. Everyone's seen what you like to do. I think K has realized this and he's starting trying to add new wrinkles late in the season. Truly he is the GOAT.

Kedsy
02-24-2019, 08:38 AM
Logic would certainly suggest that if using up a year for 5 games plus the post season is the right thing to do, then using up that same year for 15 games and the post season is even better. I'm betting if you polled Coach K and the staff today, they'd say, in retrospect that making the Baker move a few weeks ago would've been better.

If you follow the debate on this thru DBR, there were kind of two camps: A: those who said that playing Baker is worth considering, due to our 3 point shooting situation, and since there's no guarantee he'd stay 5 years anyway...and B: those who said that was crazy, that Baker and his Dad had a deal with K that this year was a red shirt year, period, and even some who used statistics to show that surely Baker is indeed a 5 year player based on his rating as a recruit. Then I guess there's a group C, who had no opinion.

Today you would think that group A has kind of been vindicated, and are wondering why not earlier...and yet, I'm sensing some pushback on that.

Why does everything have to be an “I’m right, you’re wrong” issue? Why is vindication at all important? Reliable sources close to the team reported that everyone involved was happy with the redshirt and that K had no intention of using Joey in a game. Most people heard that and accepted it. Others announced they would handle it differently. K obviously changed his mind. None of us know exactly why.

That’s all that happened. Anyone who wants to lord it over someone else is being petty, IMO.

UrinalCake
02-24-2019, 08:41 AM
My morning-after thoughts:

- Barrett showed why he was the projected #1 pick out of high school. Just completely took over the game. He put up Zion-like efficiency, and nearly every bucket was either scored or created by him. We have sort of taken him for granted this season and many have criticized him for seemingly not being as good as Zion, but man can he score. He has such a soft touch on those short jump shots, many of them rolled gently around before dropping through. He has also expanded his game and learned how to involve his teammates. Matt Norlander tweeted out that this game provided evidence that if Zion didn’t exist, Barrett would be the clear NPOY front runner and it’s hard to argue.

- even though Barrett carried the offense (scoring roughly half of the team’s points for much of the game) this was a team win. Everyone provided contributions, from the blocks and rebounds by the big men inside to Cam’s defense Alex’s big threes.

- Tre continues to struggle with his shooting but his defensive impact was on display once again. We have also gotten to the point of taking him for granted, but Battle was totally held in check after he dropped 30 on us in the first game in Tre’s absence. Syracuse scored nearly 100 points in the first game including overtime, obviously Tre wasn’t the only difference but he was a huge part of it. Also great that K found ways to get him involved in the offense by flashing him to the free throw line; he is much more comfortable shooting midrange twos than shooting threes, and teams cannot play off of him in the paint like they do behind the three line.

- free throw shooting was clutch, especially down the stretch. Tre, Alex, and Bolden knocked them down, some in pressure 1-and-1 situations when the game was not yet over. Concerns about that aspect of our game can be put on hold, at least for a game.

Altogether an incredibly solid win with lots to build on. The UNC loss is not totally erased, but we can feel much better about the team’s outlook moving forward.

MChambers
02-24-2019, 09:04 AM
If it means one person has to think about staying on the arc instead of collapsing on a driving zion or RJ, it's worth it IMO.

Exactly. With the slashers on this team, having one player who can draw his defender out to the three point line is a big deal.

DukieInBrasil
02-24-2019, 09:08 AM
I'd throw generic "underclassman plumlee" into the mix.

any upperclass Plumlee could grab and throw down an allez-oups though. One-handed even. At a full sprint. A foot over the rim. like this one:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4ijEh2y13c

budwom
02-24-2019, 09:15 AM
Will stay in the shadow of Zion (rightly so)...but man...he just delivers the goods.

Yeah, reading this thread it seems like RJ isn't quite getting the praise he deserves...an 18 year old kid, criticized as a ball hog earlier in the season, is playing like a seasoned professional. Absolutely stunning performance...the ESPN game article barely mentioned him, I guess playing in the shadow of Zion can do that....seven assists, numerous clutch shots, solid defense, he's having a season for the ages.

As for Baker, I find it hard to believe anyone is upset about the lost redshirt...as a top 25 recruit, did anyone think he'd be around for five years? Did he look upset on the bench? Another potential weapon for K as the search party intensifies efforts to find Jack's game (hoping we get a blowout win in which he can get a bunch of relaxed minutes on the court).

Gratifying road win under difficult circumstances, especially with Jones and Reddish going a combined 4-23....

freshmanjs
02-24-2019, 09:20 AM
As for Baker, I find it hard to believe anyone is upset about the lost redshirt...as a top 25 recruit, did anyone think he'd be around for five years? Did he look upset on the bench? Another potential weapon for K as the search party intensifies efforts to find Jack's game (hoping we get a blowout win in which he can get a bunch of relaxed minutes on the court).


Agree re Joey. That logic was true all along. Why sit him so far then? Why not get him time in the easier nonconference games? If there truly is no benefit to a redshirt year, then makes no sense that he hasn’t played even 1 minute.

oldnavy
02-24-2019, 09:23 AM
Why do pro teams make trades mid-season? They have a need and they try to fill it... not that complicated IMO.

scottdude8
02-24-2019, 09:25 AM
Why does everything have to be an “I’m right, you’re wrong” issue? Why is vindication at all important? Reliable sources close to the team reported that everyone involved was happy with the redshirt and that K had no intention of using Joey in a game. Most people heard that and accepted it. Others announced they would handle it differently. K obviously changed his mind. None of us know exactly why.

That’s all that happened. Anyone who wants to lord it over someone else is being petty, IMO.

I’m out of sporks but thanks for this post. There was a lot of posts in the in game thread and in this thread that seemed to just be excited about being right (or others being wrong) about the Baker situation without adding anything to the conversation. I’m not sure if that’s the direction we want these threads to go.

freshmanjs
02-24-2019, 09:26 AM
Why do pro teams make trades mid-season? They have a need and they try to fill it... not that complicated IMO.

That doesn’t explain it. If it was zero cost to play him before, then why not play him? Either it’s not really zero cost or there is some other reason that hasn’t been mentioned here yet.

The redshirt must have had some value. It’s the only way this makes sense. Must be the case that It had some value, but they’ve now decided it’s more valuable for him to play.

dukelifer
02-24-2019, 09:26 AM
Exactly. With the slashers on this team, having one player who can draw his defender out to the three point line is a big deal.

AOC stepped up big time in a difficult environment. This kid appears to be a bit of a free spirit and can lose focus- but yesterday he even showed tenacity on D and went in for a few rebounds. Basketball is a confidence sport. AOC needs time on the floor and the unfortunate injury to Zion has given him time. He made the most of his opportunity when the team needed him most. He shoots very well when challenged- and that is a useful skill. I thought Baker played pretty well given that his first game was on the road. He stuck his nose in there for some rebounds. The 3PF in 5 minutes is impressive, but he does have a beautiful stroke and you never know- he could deliver in a big moment down the stretch. Duke needs a reliable shooter. Cam is so inconsistent on O but as many have noted- does play very good D. But when Cam is on- he can be deadly. I must say that RJ is getting better from 3. He is able to hit that shot more reliably it seems of late. The rest of the season will be interesting to watch.

budwom
02-24-2019, 09:32 AM
Agree re Joey. That logic was true all along. Why sit him so far then? Why not get him time in the easier nonconference games? If there truly is no benefit to a redshirt year, then makes no sense that he hasn’t played even 1 minute.

I imagine the logic was that we had plenty of shooters to choose from, so he wouldn't play much if at all....with Jack shooting well and AOC on hand, Joey looked to be pretty far down the food chain..but with Jack struggling and some of our other guys struggling (Tre and Cam 4-23 overall yesterday), might as well haul Joey out there....he looked delighted, FWIW.

dukelifer
02-24-2019, 09:37 AM
Agree re Joey. That logic was true all along. Why sit him so far then? Why not get him time in the easier nonconference games? If there truly is no benefit to a redshirt year, then makes no sense that he hasn’t played even 1 minute.

Maybe it was to build his confidence. If you know you are sitting out- perhaps the pressure is off during the season. Your season is all about practice. We have seen good Duke players - like Jordan Tucker - sit on the bench wondering why they are not getting minutes and then transfer thinking that their time may never come. Perhaps K was worried that Baker would feel this all year and get antsy because the minutes were not going to be there. Jack was playing very well and AOC was experienced. But then after showing himself in practice- he lets Baker loose when the team is down a key player- and K hopes he can find lightning in a bottle. I think this was a calculated move to keep Baker engaged. Baker is a skilled player and will become an important piece next year. K knew he needed time to mature. Playing against Barrett or Cam all year with a singular focus of being a practice player- has probably made him much better. (Note I assume no one plays against Zion in practice- too dangerous).

hudlow
02-24-2019, 09:39 AM
I think AOC has found the right haircut.

I hope he keeps it for the rest of the season.

SkyBrickey
02-24-2019, 09:42 AM
Agree re Joey. That logic was true all along. Why sit him so far then? Why not get him time in the easier nonconference games? If there truly is no benefit to a redshirt year, then makes no sense that he hasn’t played even 1 minute.

I don't know why people are having such a hard time with this decision. Think of it this way. Coach K is doing everything he can to win games and a championship THIS season. Up until this point, he didn't think Joey would help us by playing, so why not preserve an option on a fifth year (whether the young man ultimately uses it or not...). Things changed this week. With our abysmal outside shooting, our mental collapse against UNC, and the temporary loss of Zion - and perhaps Joey playing very well in practice - the GOAT decided Joey may be able to help us win this year.

I do hope he continues to give him some minutes and a look. He's got good size and had the reputation as a stone-cold great shooter coming out of HS...

uh_no
02-24-2019, 09:45 AM
AOC stepped up big time in a difficult environment. This kid appears to be a bit of a free spirit and can lose focus- but yesterday he even showed tenacity on D and went in for a few rebounds. Basketball is a confidence sport. AOC needs time on the floor and the unfortunate injury to Zion has given him time. He made the most of his opportunity when the team needed him most. He shoots very well when challenged- and that is a useful skill. I thought Baker played pretty well given that his first game was on the road. He stuck his nose in there for some rebounds. The 3PF in 5 minutes is impressive, but he does have a beautiful stroke and you never know- he could deliver in a big moment down the stretch. Duke needs a reliable shooter. Cam is so inconsistent on O but as many have noted- does play very good D. But when Cam is on- he can be deadly. I must say that RJ is getting better from 3. He is able to hit that shot more reliably it seems of late. The rest of the season will be interesting to watch.

he was fouling intentionally at the end of the half.

SkyBrickey
02-24-2019, 09:47 AM
Not to derail the thread, but I'd been thinking a little about next year's team and how different it will look. Where will the points come from? I've got a lot more confidence that AOC can average 15-16 ppg after yesterday's showing. We will need that out of him next year...

golfinesquire
02-24-2019, 09:49 AM
I imagine the logic was that we had plenty of shooters to choose from, so he wouldn't play much if at all...with Jack shooting well and AOC on hand, Joey looked to be pretty far down the food chain..but with Jack struggling and some of our other guys struggling (Tre and Cam 4-23 overall yesterday), might as well haul Joey out there...he looked delighted, FWIW.

Is it at sll possible that Joey got better as the season went on? When they played their exhibition, he looked lost and weak with the ball. Looked like a different player to me in his limited minutes tonight. Teenagers do get better and stronger as the season goes on.

budwom
02-24-2019, 09:55 AM
Is it at sll possible that Joey got better as the season went on? When they played their exhibition, he looked lost and weak with the ball. Looked like a different player to me in his limited minutes tonight. Teenagers do get better and stronger as the season goes on.

sure, could be anything...with a legit title run being possible, might as well get all hands on deck...if the starters' shots aren't falling from now on, K has AOC, Jack (I still have hope) and Baker to choose from for some instant offense. I do surmise that the ongoing shooting inconsistency of guys like Tre and Cam is also a factor.

oldnavy
02-24-2019, 09:55 AM
That doesn’t explain it. If it was zero cost to play him before, then why not play him? Either it’s not really zero cost or there is some other reason that hasn’t been mentioned here yet.

The redshirt must have had some value. It’s the only way this makes sense. Must be the case that It had some value, but they’ve now decided it’s more valuable for him to play.

Sure redshirting has value, but that future value was offset by our need for a shooter this year. I think we are on the same page.... obviously Coach K wasn't planning thus, but things change and one of K's strength is his ability to adapt.

Troublemaker
02-24-2019, 09:58 AM
I take it that you were referring to my nonpolitical post on the politician and the basketball player. Sorry it went over your head.

Nope, your post was fine -- it was another post from someone else. Since your post is still up and not deleted, I couldn't have been talking about your post, now could I? Which makes this response of yours moronic. (Note: you yourself may not be moronic. I disagree with the response but respect the poster).

Duke76
02-24-2019, 10:05 AM
Plenty to talk about after tonight's game so let me get started.

I was fairly certain Alex would get the start tonight based on his previous outing against Syracuse. I've seen a number of people getting really excited about his play tonight, but let's take a very deep breath and remember Syracuse is the perfect match-up for him based on their defensive scheme. Alex's biggest problems come when a defender gets up in his grill as all he does at that point in time is dance around the perimeter and pass off to a teammate. I thought he did a solid job on the defensive end tonight and only recall him getting burnt on a backdoor play, but that was just as much the fault of the man who was guarding Dolezaj and was sagging too far off of him, instead of being up on him. I also have an issue with him not playing with reckless abandon when it comes to going after loose balls. He always seems willing to pull-up in order to avoid possible contact.

I guess the biggest story to come out of today's game was the fact that Baker burned his red shirt. I'd love to hear how that decision was made and what factors played into it. I'm not buying it was solely done, because we need 3 pt shooting when AOC has been available the whole time. What's even more surprising was he only got 5 minutes of play and all of those in the 1st half.

I thought RJ was fantastic tonight and his play when Zion has been absent shows why you need a talented alpha dog on your team. There's something special to be said about a kid who isn't afraid to carry a team on his shoulders.

Can we get a little love for Cam tonight? I realize he didn't have a good game on the offensive end of the court, but man he's a major load on the defensive end of the court.

Nice to see Tre hit some shots tonight. Granted they were from close in, but several came with Chuku right in his face.

I can't forget the play of both Javin and Bolden. When Javin stays on the court he can be a difference maker. As for Bolden, I loved the way he closed out the game. Very, very strong play on his part.

one more big story...but don't we expect it, but the move by K to have Tre flash the middle/foul line was the tipping point to me in the game....plays to one of Tre's strengths....he is quick with his shot and really is quite a good shooter at that spot on the floor...has a good floater and can pass well from that position....expect to see him in that spot more as long as Zion is out...you can most of the time tell who the better Coach is for the game with the half time adjustments that each team makes...really regardless of football or basketball, imo and thankfully we have the GOAT and a football coach that ain't too bad either

wsb3
02-24-2019, 10:07 AM
If it means one person has to think about staying on the arc instead of collapsing on a driving zion or RJ, it's worth it IMO.

I concur with your opinion. It did surprise me & those of you that thought it possible (I did not) ..You were correct..
I really noticed him in the Louisville game. He seem to me (maybe I just watched him more) to be the one on the bench that really believed Duke could still come back. So upbeat. Little doubt he has shown a lot of improvement in practice over the course of the season or no way does Coach K make this move.

wsb3
02-24-2019, 10:14 AM
I watched the last 10+ minutes again this morning and paid particular attention to Bolden when he took Javin's place.. 7+ to go.

By my unofficial stat sheet. He had 4 ORB, 7 total rebounds. 1 FG 2-2 FT. And his activity.. all during that last stretch. I can't recall a stretch when he played better.

ChillinDuke
02-24-2019, 10:15 AM
Big win. A lot has been said already so I'll just add a couple comments from my perspective.

1) Joey Baker - well, wow. I admit I thought it was a foregone conclusion we wouldn't see him this year. I was flabbergasted when I saw him check in. Although it was made more curious by his limited minutes. Which leads me to my larger point...

2) Coach K is never a one trick pony. To see Duke essentially hold an open try out in the first half for 3pt shooting / offense / someone to step up (DURING A CONFERENCE GAME IN LATE FEBRUARY) was amazing to see. Doubly amazing that, whether it was mental or otherwise, they burned a redshirt to further try out for the role. Just incredible. I love that we owned that issue so visibly and got a response out of it. And a big road win.

I love Duke basketball.

- Chillin

Troublemaker
02-24-2019, 10:16 AM
My morning-after thoughts:

- Barrett showed why he was the projected #1 pick out of high school. Just completely took over the game. He put up Zion-like efficiency, and nearly every bucket was either scored or created by him. We have sort of taken him for granted this season and many have criticized him for seemingly not being as good as Zion, but man can he score. He has such a soft touch on those short jump shots, many of them rolled gently around before dropping through. He has also expanded his game and learned how to involve his teammates. Matt Norlander tweeted out that this game provided evidence that if Zion didn’t exist, Barrett would be the clear NPOY front runner and it’s hard to argue.

Hmmm, an interesting thought experiment. I think one should take the field over RJ under that scenario, so someone like Markus Howard or Carsen Edwards would win. The impact of Zion not existing:

(1) Duke would win less. While I think Duke is still really good without Zion, we're not going to be overall #1 seed good. (Keep in mind though that if Zion had gone to Clemson, Coach K might've recruited someone else to Duke, so we can't assume it'd be the same roster without Zion).

(2) If Coach K fills in a Zion-less lineup with a role-playing shooter (like he did with AOC last night), RJ's efficiency stats would climb, given more spacing.

(3) In a Zion-less lineup, RJ would be the unquestioned alpha and might take on even a bigger load. So RJ's counting stats would climb.

Overall, I think RJ would be an NPOY contender for sure and a 1st-team All-American, but like I said, I'd probably still take the field over him.

budwom
02-24-2019, 10:18 AM
one more big story...but don't we expect it, but the move by K to have Tre flash the middle/foul line was the tipping point to me in the game...plays to one of Tre's strengths...he is quick with his shot and really is quite a good shooter at that spot on the floor...has a good floater and can pass well from that position...expect to see him in that spot more as long as Zion is out...you can most of the time tell who the better Coach is for the game with the half time adjustments that each team makes...really regardless of football or basketball, imo and thankfully we have the GOAT and a football coach that ain't too bad either

yeah, the second half adjustments were great, even though Tre only ended up hitting two shots all night....

DukeDevil
02-24-2019, 10:28 AM
A little humor gold off reddit

9111

https://www.reddit.com/r/CollegeBasketball/comments/au2ngn/comment/eh565mc?st=JSJ2HHAT&sh=b60bbe9b

DukieInBrasil
02-24-2019, 10:34 AM
AOC stepped up big time in a difficult environment. This kid appears to be a bit of a free spirit and can lose focus- but yesterday he even showed tenacity on D and went in for a few rebounds. Basketball is a confidence sport. AOC needs time on the floor and the unfortunate injury to Zion has given him time. He made the most of his opportunity when the team needed him most. He shoots very well when challenged- and that is a useful skill. I thought Baker played pretty well given that his first game was on the road. He stuck his nose in there for some rebounds. The 3PF in 5 minutes is impressive, but he does have a beautiful stroke and you never know- he could deliver in a big moment down the stretch. Duke needs a reliable shooter. Cam is so inconsistent on O but as many have noted- does play very good D. But when Cam is on- he can be deadly. I must say that RJ is getting better from 3. He is able to hit that shot more reliably it seems of late. The rest of the season will be interesting to watch.
But can J-Bake keep up with Javin? I tease Javin about his propensity for fouling, but he really is prodigious in that regard. Also, that 3rd foul on J-Bake was pure cr*p, it was a clean block, called a foul b/c the ref thought "who's this kid thinking he can just show up and block shots?"
Cam did indeed play good defense yesterday, and really bothered ballhandlers bringing it up or just past halfcourt, really hampered their ability to get into offensive sets. He gets burned from time to time, but who doesn't? Overall, his defense has been a big part of why Duke's team D has been so unexpectedly good. I'll take some inconsistent offense for stout defense all the time.


Not to derail the thread, but I'd been thinking a little about next year's team and how different it will look. Where will the points come from? I've got a lot more confidence that AOC can average 15-16 ppg after yesterday's showing. We will need that out of him next year...
Unless Tre absolutely catches fire shooting the ball from here on out, I think we might have him next year too. That'll be good for 10+ ppg, in addition to the efficient offense he is able to orchestrate. We've got some nice recruits coming in, too, so they'll be able to score. J-White will probably be good for ~8ppg. Javin and Big Ques are probably gonna be good for 12+ ppg, but J-Gold, Buckmire, and J-Rob will probably combine for <1ppg in games that matter. And then there's the mystery of J-Bake, who hasn't scored yet but let's imagine he brings AOC type production next year, so ~5ppg. If AOC ups his ppg by 10, that would be very impressive indeed, but if we add all those hypotheticals up the returning players alone would bring 50ppg to the table, which i think is a bit high honestly, considering the talent that Duke is bringing in.

CDu
02-24-2019, 10:37 AM
What an eventful game! So much to talk about:

I thought this might have been Barrett’s best game of the season. He was absolutely fantastic. When he’s on, he is amazing. And he was on last night. Wonderful performance, and we needed it!

While Jones and Reddish struggled mightily on offense, they were terrific defensively against Battle and Howard, respectively. I would love it if they can be productive on both ends, but I will take the defensive success for sure.

Similarly, I thought a Javin Bolden had a great game too: 9 points, 15 rebounds (8 offensive), and 3 blocks. The two-headed monster provided a ton of second chance opportunities, while Javin made a nice impact defensively as well. If only the lobs to them could have been better...

And then things got interesting. Coach K went with O’Connell as the fifth starter, looking for shooting against the zone. O’Connell was the only guy to shoot well from 3 against Syracuse the last time, so K rolled the dice on a repeat and it paid off in spades. I don’t expect O’Connell to gives us this regularly, but at least he gave us a big spark last night when we desperately needed it. Let’s hope he stays relatively dialed in as a catch-and-shoot option.

Then things got weird. Not only did White not play, but he was replaced by the guy that was on pace to redshirt. Baker didn’t play much, and missed his only look from 3. At this point, now that the redshirt plan is kaput, there is little reason not to see what Baker can do. He doesn’t appear to be the defender or rebounder that White is, but he comes with a much better scoring/offensive reputation. Hopefully he provides some punch to a lineup that could use some floor spacing. And hopefully his introduction is strictly related to White’s fading and nothing more.

A 10-point road win against an upper-half ACC team that should make the tourney is nothing to sneeze at. That we did it without our best player AND with two of our freshmen having abysmal offensive showings is even more impressive. We are now one win away from surviving the toughest stretch of the season, and positioning ourselves to play for the ACC regular season title in two weeks. Can’t complain about that!

Tooold
02-24-2019, 10:37 AM
Agree re Joey. That logic was true all along. Why sit him so far then? Why not get him time in the easier nonconference games? If there truly is no benefit to a redshirt year, then makes no sense that he hasn’t played even 1 minute.

Someone said it earlier....I think Joey was behind Jack, AOC, Goldwire, etc and coach saw no reason to play him. He was #9, 10 or lower on depth chart (for a coach who often doesn’t go 8 deep). So it was easy to consider him a red shirt. But now it’s february and no one has been hitting shots. Maybe Jack is sick or maybe Coach feels he needs to watch from the bench for a while. Maybe, given the injury to Zion, coach was more willing to go deep to search for an outside shot. Or he thinks we need more options going forward. Lots of possible reasons for why it happened now. But I am glad Joey played as that gives us one more possibility for a hot hand in March/April.

budwom
02-24-2019, 10:39 AM
Baker looked more physically ready than I had assumed (I haven't seen him even warm up)...not as skinny/gangly as I might have guessed.

Onlyduke
02-24-2019, 10:39 AM
I think AOC has found the right haircut.

I hope he keeps it for the rest of the season.

Agreed! I hated his hair in the beginning of the season!

Indoor66
02-24-2019, 10:50 AM
Rewatching the game. Bilas is insufferable.

dukelifer
02-24-2019, 10:54 AM
he was fouling intentionally at the end of the half.

Yes- I know- just a funny stat line.

Tooold
02-24-2019, 10:57 AM
“Well, it is not just adjusting without Zion, the last 48 hours, everybody has opinions about everything. It is not just playing, its
amateurism. Thursday for me, was one of the toughest 24 hours I have had as a coach at Duke. One, getting over the psychological
stuff that happened to our team. We were not back. I met with almost every one of my guys individually. The three freshmen,
together and just asking them ‘how did they feel’ and ‘how do they feel now’ and while trying to handle whatever else was
happening. Thank goodness I have a great team around me – my support people. I asked my team, ‘we just went through hell these
last 24 hours’, and I could depend on everybody. We need to be that team, where you can depend on everybody, and they were. I
am really proud of my team.”

I wonder how others read this part of (his presser)?

I believe he’s talking about two things
1) all the pundits saying Zion should pull the plug on college basketball—that has to affect everyone on the team when they hear that. And kudos to Zion and the Williamson family for ignoring that (I think/hope) and making their own decision.
2) the fact that the team just did not respond well after Zion left game, and got beaten soundly by uNCheats.

So he thought he needed to have a personal conversation with every player. Good for him. It’s hard enough to deal with the best player going out in the first few seconds, but the way the media picked this up, sometimes to promote their political messages, has to make it very tough for 18-20 year olds to move forward.

fgb
02-24-2019, 11:01 AM
AOC stepped up big time in a difficult environment. This kid appears to be a bit of a free spirit and can lose focus- but yesterday he even showed tenacity on D and went in for a few rebounds. Basketball is a confidence sport. AOC needs time on the floor and the unfortunate injury to Zion has given him time. He made the most of his opportunity when the team needed him most. He shoots very well when challenged- and that is a useful skill. I thought Baker played pretty well given that his first game was on the road. He stuck his nose in there for some rebounds. The 3PF in 5 minutes is impressive, but he does have a beautiful stroke and you never know- he could deliver in a big moment down the stretch. Duke needs a reliable shooter. Cam is so inconsistent on O but as many have noted- does play very good D. But when Cam is on- he can be deadly. I must say that RJ is getting better from 3. He is able to hit that shot more reliably it seems of late. The rest of the season will be interesting to watch.

let's put an asterisk beside that stat. the second foul was intentional, and the third was an horrible call on a really nice, clean block. (in spite of bilas' insistence that there was contact, spoken as the replay clearly showed the opposite.)

Papa John
02-24-2019, 11:09 AM
I haven't gone back to look again, but at the time I thought it was a smart move. The defender was closing rapidly and appeared to have the angle on Alex. Sometimes expedience is the better part of valor. We did not need the points at that time but we did need the ball.

Agree—I thought it was a very smart play by Alex as well... We were up 10, I believe, with just under a minute remaining... I thought the smart move there was to just go ahead and burn clock and make Syracuse chase you, which is exactly what Alex did...


Why does everything have to be an “I’m right, you’re wrong” issue? Why is vindication at all important?

Amen, brother! While I used to find it amusing to observe the tit-for-tat, back-and-forth arguments that proliferate on this board, the older I get the more it just feels exhausting to wade through. Seems that so many people nowadays are just so intent and insistent on always being right (not just here on DBR, but in general), and very few who seem to have the ability to either admit they might be wrong and concede a point, or merely conclude that it's fine to agree to disagree (without always having to get in the last word).

CDu
02-24-2019, 11:10 AM
let's put an asterisk beside that stat. the second foul was intentional, and the third was an horrible call on a really nice, clean block. (in spite of bilas' insistence that there was contact, spoken as the replay clearly showed the opposite.)

The first two fouls were intentional, actually.

wavedukefan70s
02-24-2019, 11:13 AM
let's put an asterisk beside that stat. the second foul was intentional, and the third was an horrible call on a really nice, clean block. (in spite of bilas' insistence that there was contact, spoken as the replay clearly showed the opposite.)

But 60% of the time bilas is right 100% of the time😁I still like his commentary though.

fgb
02-24-2019, 11:14 AM
That doesn’t explain it. If it was zero cost to play him before, then why not play him? Either it’s not really zero cost or there is some other reason that hasn’t been mentioned here yet.

The redshirt must have had some value. It’s the only way this makes sense. Must be the case that It had some value, but they’ve now decided it’s more valuable for him to play.

of course the redshirt has value, but there is also value in playing a player who fills a need. circumstances change: i'm not going to take out a home equity loan just because my home has value; but if i need a new roof right now, then, probably.

my thought is that early on, as has been mentioned, the staff probably thought between white, jones, aoc, and reddish, we had enough three point shooting. but early on, the shots just weren't falling as expected, aside from white's. then reddish began coming into form, right about the time white's shot abandoned him. the staff has given white plenty of time at this point, and while i'm sure they're not giving up on him, for the team's sake, likely feel that they can't wait solely on white's return to early season form.

as for "burning the redshirt", i'd guess that (1) both baker and his father (for what it's worth) are fine with the decision, if it's our best shot to win a title. i don't think for a second that owning an ncaa championship ring is the sort of opportunity for which most players would gladly sacrifice a fifth season of eligibility. and (2) as for what the fifth season would mean for the team, i'm pretty confident that the staff will be able to focus on another shooter or two in the 2022 high school class to make up for baker's 2022 matriculation, assuming he stays at duke for the remainder of his eligibility.

fgb
02-24-2019, 11:33 AM
I believe he’s talking about two things
1) all the pundits saying Zion should pull the plug on college basketball—that has to affect everyone on the team when they hear that. And kudos to Zion and the Williamson family for ignoring that (I think/hope) and making their own decision.
2) the fact that the team just did not respond well after Zion left game, and got beaten soundly by uNCheats.

So he thought he needed to have a personal conversation with every player. Good for him. It’s hard enough to deal with the best player going out in the first few seconds, but the way the media picked this up, sometimes to promote their political messages, has to make it very tough for 18-20 year olds to move forward.

the calls for zion to "shut it down" are beyond absurd at this point--especially given their didactic, annoying i-know-better-then-you-uncle-at-thanksgiving-dinner tone: "zion should shut it down, for the sake of his own future. while i believe that there is a sound argument to be made here, i can't really take any of these blowhards seriously unless they make the same argument for every potential first round pick. to say that zion, and zion alone, should shut it down, just has no logical basis at all. all of these kids are taking the same risk, and we're talking about real, life changing money for each and every one of them. when they make this case for zion, but seems fine to let the rest of these kids risk injury, it just reads as classic duke haters who are having a hard time grokking the idea that the best player in a generation, and possibly the most likable, is in a duke uniform, and seemingly having the time of his life.

Turk
02-24-2019, 11:33 AM
Which one?

https://forums.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showthread.php?3840-Ymm-Beer

:D


One with the most corn syrup. I just love corn syrup. Extra corn syrup please.

Ah. Then I would kindly direct you to this thread instead. Bumped it for you:

https://forums.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showthread.php?8179-Ycch-Beer!/

peloton
02-24-2019, 11:34 AM
AOC stepped up big time in a difficult environment.


The rest of the season will be interesting to watch.

I totally agree on both points. Although AOC has had some games where he played a bigger part than usual, to quote Emeril Lagasse, he definitely "kicked it up a notch" last night. I've got to believe that was as much fun for the rest of the team to see as it was for us fans. It also appeared to me at least that his defense was better (read:he was moving his feet quicker) as a result of the added confidence from knocking down some shots.

Yes, it's going to be interesting and fun might I add watching Alex, Joey Baker, and the rest of the team mature and improve.

bigperm13
02-24-2019, 11:50 AM
I believe he’s talking about two things
1) all the pundits saying Zion should pull the plug on college basketball—that has to affect everyone on the team when they hear that. And kudos to Zion and the Williamson family for ignoring that (I think/hope) and making their own decision.
2) the fact that the team just did not respond well after Zion left game, and got beaten soundly by uNCheats.

So he thought he needed to have a personal conversation with every player. Good for him. It’s hard enough to deal with the best player going out in the first few seconds, but the way the media picked this up, sometimes to promote their political messages, has to make it very tough for 18-20 year olds to move forward.

I think the death involving Boeheim who's one of his best friends also played a big factor into those bad 24 hours.

Saratoga2
02-24-2019, 12:06 PM
I believe he’s talking about two things
1) all the pundits saying Zion should pull the plug on college basketball—that has to affect everyone on the team when they hear that. And kudos to Zion and the Williamson family for ignoring that (I think/hope) and making their own decision.
2) the fact that the team just did not respond well after Zion left game, and got beaten soundly by uNCheats.

So he thought he needed to have a personal conversation with every player. Good for him. It’s hard enough to deal with the best player going out in the first few seconds, but the way the media picked this up, sometimes to promote their political messages, has to make it very tough for 18-20 year olds to move forward.

Thanks for the input and you may well have identified his read meaning. Even Jay Williams got into the act of advising against playing. Also, did Jack say something to get himself on the s-list? Seems like a lot was going on internally with the team.

wgl1228
02-24-2019, 12:08 PM
Great win last night. I always felt that if AOC got properly set up for shots he would knock some down. Reddish seems to be a streaky shooter but AOC is going to make some if he gets extended minutes. Tough to come off the bench and just get hot.

1991 duke law
02-24-2019, 12:09 PM
It is interesting that there is a hue and cry among some imbeciles (and that insult is primarily directed to Scottie Pippen) that Zion should stop playing but no one is saying the same thing about RJ. While Zion has been anointed with the first pick, RJ should be top three without much issue. If one Is of the view that Zion should stop playing, presumably RJ should also stop playing. And if Cam still has any prospects of being a top five pick, maybe he should stop playing.

In the almost 30 years that I have been watching college basketball, I am not aware of one kid who has been injured while playing collegiate hoops in which his draft prospects were significantly diminished. Kenyan Martin broke his leg and was still drafted first. Assuming that my recollection is not materially deficient, there is no logical basis (based on historical precedent) to justify the suggestion that Zion should not play and wait for the draft. Once one and done is eliminated, is the next step to say that the best high school player in America should not play in grade 12 - as he may risk injury that would preclude him from being drafted as high?

I should note that I am not diminishing the understandable goal of maximizing earning potential by minimizing risk. But if your intention is to make your living playing basketball, there’s something incongruous to say I will stop playing basketball. Again, if this was an incredibly dangerous sport in which players regularly were injured and were incapable thereafter of playing at a high-level, my view would be different.

devilnfla
02-24-2019, 12:09 PM
he was fouling intentionally at the end of the half.

Not sure who "he" is, but if you're referring to Joey, I'm pretty sure that last called foul wasn't intentional. It was a damn good block.

FerryFor50
02-24-2019, 12:10 PM
Not sure where you're going here, but maybe you shouldn't go there. Keep politics out of it.

I think it’s obvious where they were going there.

It was unnecessary to the discussion, and also a dumb take.

Kedsy
02-24-2019, 12:11 PM
As for Baker, I find it hard to believe anyone is upset about the lost redshirt...as a top 25 recruit, did anyone think he'd be around for five years?

Except Joey Baker was not a top 25 recruit. He was in the 40s by most services and #37 in the RSCI. Maybe he would have left early, but guys ranked at that level hardly ever do.


At this point, now that the redshirt plan is kaput, there is little reason not to see what Baker can do. He doesn’t appear to be the defender or rebounder that White is, but he comes with a much better scoring/offensive reputation.

Are you kidding? Joey Baker has a career 39.8% defensive rebounding percentage! ;)

Pghdukie
02-24-2019, 12:14 PM
It may be time to re-open the MINUTES thread !

bluedev_92
02-24-2019, 12:15 PM
Originally Posted by ncexnyc:
..
I was fairly certain Alex would get the start tonight based on his previous outing against Syracuse. I've seen a number of people getting really excited about his play tonight, but let's take a very deep breath and remember Syracuse is the perfect match-up for him based on their defensive scheme. Alex's biggest problems come when a defender gets up in his grill as all he does at that point in time is dance around the perimeter and pass off to a teammate. ...

QUOTE=Skydog;1132262]Very good point.[/QUOTE]

I’ll gladly take anyone who can hit open threes at this point. Great job Alex!

roywhite
02-24-2019, 12:17 PM
Still enjoying the glow from this one. It was vintage Duke basketball.

Highlights and thoughts:
RJ kept us in the game in the 1st half, scoring 17 of a total of only 29 points.
RJ had a great game overall, played like a 1st team All-America. Has a Canadian player been a consensus 1st team All-America?
Second half was just a great team effort, from coaching adjustments to overall contributions; 2nd half stats:
46-31 score, 27 to 16 in rebounds, shot 12-14 from the FT line; defense held Syracuse to 15 points in last 12 minutes
Alex was terrific; as pointed out elsewhere, each of his 3-pointers were made with the score close, just really clutch...and style points for those high arcs
Road warriors -- now 7-0 in conference road games, including wins at FSU, Louisville, UVa, and Syracuse

Summary -- the 2nd half may have been one of the best halves of play all year, and Duke did it with Zion on the bench. Awesome.

sagegrouse
02-24-2019, 12:18 PM
of course the redshirt has value, but there is also value in playing a player who fills a need. circumstances change: i'm not going to take out a home equity loan just because my home has value; but if i need a new roof right now, then, probably.

my thought is that early on, as has been mentioned, the staff probably thought between white, jones, aoc, and reddish, we had enough three point shooting. but early on, the shots just weren't falling as expected, aside from white's. then reddish began coming into form, right about the time white's shot abandoned him. the staff has given white plenty of time at this point, and while i'm sure they're not giving up on him, for the team's sake, likely feel that they can't wait solely on white's return to early season form.

as for "burning the redshirt", i'd guess that (1) both baker and his father (for what it's worth) are fine with the decision, if it's our best shot to win a title. i don't think for a second that owning an ncaa championship ring is the sort of opportunity for which most players would gladly sacrifice a fifth season of eligibility. and (2) as for what the fifth season would mean for the team, i'm pretty confident that the staff will be able to focus on another shooter or two in the 2022 high school class to make up for baker's 2022 matriculation, assuming he stays at duke for the remainder of his eligibility.

The playing of Joey Baker was a "human fire alarm" for the Duke squad. K had had it. You can't will people to make shots, but if most of the squad is missing everything, then major changes will be made. I mean, the UNC game... really! Aside from RJ and Cam and the two solo breakaways by Javin, the team shot two for 25, as in TWO FOR TWENTY-FIVE, or as in EIGHT FRIGGING PERCENT!!!! That's not three-point shots; that's everything -- missed lay-ups, blown chippies, clanked mid-range shots, and and air-balled three-point shots. Of course K took actions. He benched a captain; he inserted Javin; he gave Alex a lead role, and -- in an unreported scene from the locker room -- he burned Joey's red shirt and spread the ashes all over his face.

It ain't about Joey. It's about K and the entire team -- which stunk to high heaven against our biggest rival.

Phredd3
02-24-2019, 12:22 PM
DEFENSE

dRtg: 0.98 (adjusted that's 0.94; decent, not great)
eFG%: 37.9% (outstanding; our 2nd best opposing eFG% in conference play)
3pt%: 21.7% (good)
2pt%: 40.4% (very good; 3rd best opposing 2-pt% in conference play)
%threes: 32.9%
FT rate: 27.1% (meh)
DR%: 61.2% (pretty bad)
TO%: 10.5% (lowest opposing TO% of the season)
a/to: 1:71 (after a long string of games with 1:1 or below, we've had three straight of the opposite)
%assisted: 50.0%
fast break pts: 6 (12.8% of their points)
block%: 8.6%; 12.8% of 2-point shots (good, considering we played without Zion, thanks primarily to Javin)
steal%: 3.0% (awful; breaks a streak of nine straight game above 10%)

Third game this has happened, so I wonder if there's a glitch in the software somewhere. The correct ratio is 1.71:1, of course (12 A to 7 TO).

Love the advanced stats posts, though, and the extra interpretive commentary, especially. Thanks, Kedsy.

Kedsy
02-24-2019, 12:25 PM
Has a Canadian player been a consensus 1st team All-America?

Kelly Olynyk was a consensus first team All-American in 2013. There may have been others, too. I only looked up Steve Nash (hon. mention), Anthony Bennett (hon. mention), Andrew Wiggins (2nd team), Jamal Murray (3rd team), and Olynyk. There have been a whole lot of great Canadian players, though.

Kedsy
02-24-2019, 12:26 PM
Third game this has happened, so I wonder if there's a glitch in the software somewhere. The correct ratio is 1.71:1, of course (12 A to 7 TO).

Love the advanced stats posts, though, and the extra interpretive commentary, especially. Thanks, Kedsy.

Sorry, yes, I mis-punctuated the ratio.

BandAlum83
02-24-2019, 12:30 PM
We don't agree at all on Westbrook but we agree completely here. He's in the team photo. His signature is on both my poster and basketball. He's participated in every practice. Coach K thought he looked ready so now he's gonna get some burn. And Duke just got deeper. Was he nervous and did he get lost a bit? Of course. The circumstances surrounding this game were extraordinary. Also, thought his block was clean and the 3 attempt looked pure. Zion will be the one going most crazy when he scores his first points on Tuesday night.

Assuming we make it to the ACCT and NCAAT Final, we will see Joey in potentially 40% of our games this year.

He has an opportunity to have a major impact on our season.

I will wait and see and root for him and the entire team to bring home a couple of trophies and banners.

But for all you conspiracy theorists, here are two possibilities to discuss:

1. The NBA doing away with OAD messes with Joey’s timing to go pro.

2. K reads DBR and wants to mess with the minutes contest!

freshmanjs
02-24-2019, 12:40 PM
Assuming we make it to the ACCT and NCAAT Final, we will see Joey in potentially 40% of our games this year.


14 out of 40 games, right? Assuming we get double bye in the ACCT. 35%.

DieHard
02-24-2019, 12:44 PM
I believe K addressed the Baker decision in his post game press conference. I am paraphrasing, but he essentially said he would not play someone, a youngster, if they did not want to play. This could be in response to both the should Zion shut it down, and the why did he "burn" the red-shirt. Baker looked happy to me...

Tooold
02-24-2019, 12:55 PM
the calls for zion to "shut it down" are beyond absurd at this point--especially given their didactic, annoying i-know-better-then-you-uncle-at-thanksgiving-dinner tone: "zion should shut it down, for the sake of his own future. while i believe that there is a sound argument to be made here, i can't really take any of these blowhards seriously unless they make the same argument for every potential first round pick. to say that zion, and zion alone, should shut it down, just has no logical basis at all. all of these kids are taking the same risk, and we're talking about real, life changing money for each and every one of them. when they make this case for zion, but seems fine to let the rest of these kids risk injury, it just reads as classic duke haters who are having a hard time grokking the idea that the best player in a generation, and possibly the most likable, is in a duke uniform, and seemingly having the time of his life.

Agree completely. Why shouldn’t Ja Morant shut it down (the same people that want Zion to shut it down are not even sure if Ja should declare for draft this year...). I think there is some anti-Duke bias built into these comments. Why else would they not say every potential lottery pick should shut it down. Very disappointed in Jay Williams, who seems a little hypocritical here. But very appreciative of a few who think for themselves....Barkley “we all play basketball. That’s what we do”, Stephen A Smith (who I usually cannot stand), and Jalen Rose.

plimnko
02-24-2019, 12:57 PM
k is the GOAT........why do people always second guess him?

Dukehky
02-24-2019, 12:59 PM
Agree completely. Why shouldn’t Ja Morant shut it down (the same people that want Zion to shut it down are not even sure if Ja should declare for draft this year...). I think there is some anti-Duke bias built into these comments. Why else would they not say every potential lottery pick should shut it down. Very disappointed in Jay Williams, who seems a little hypocritical here. But very appreciative of a few who think for themselves...Barkley “we all play basketball. That’s what we do”, Stephen A Smith (who I usually cannot stand), and Jalen Rose.

There is a legit circle who say that Nas Little should come back to school... While he hasn't had a good year, there's no way he falls out of the lottery. So he should come back, yet Zion should shut it down. Roy really has his stuff figured out.

uh_no
02-24-2019, 01:01 PM
k is the GOAT....why do people always second guess him?

because there is more than one way to skin a cat? frankly, comments deriding people for asking "why" a decision was made are more annoying than those questioning the decision in the first place.

camion
02-24-2019, 01:01 PM
k is the GOAT...why do people always second guess him?

Adopt, adapt and improve. That's why K is GOAT. Here is an instructional video on the topic. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MG9Ql1Wyxbg)

plimnko
02-24-2019, 01:03 PM
because there is more than one way to skin a cat? frankly, comments deriding people for asking "why" a decision was made are more annoying than those questioning the decision in the first place.

well, you have your opinion and I have mine

freshmanjs
02-24-2019, 01:04 PM
k is the GOAT....why do people always second guess him?

Because it's fun to talk about the team. 24 hours ago, someone saying "Coach K should play Joey Baker" would have been criticized for second guessing. Today, someone saying "Let's talk through the logic of not playing Joey before and playing him now" is criticized for second guessing.

Tooold
02-24-2019, 01:06 PM
I believe K addressed the Baker decision in his post game press conference. I am paraphrasing, but he essentially said he would not play someone, a youngster, if they did not want to play. This could be in response to both the should Zion shut it down, and the why did he "burn" the red-shirt. Baker looked happy to me...

Maybe you are right. But with this comment about not playing someone who didn’t want to play, I thought K was specifically addressing the controversial “Zion should shut it down “issue. I think he also referred to Zion’s family and Zion’s desire to travel with the team to the game. WRT Joey, he also said Joey has been playing well in practice.

Is it possible that, when Joey decided to reclassify, there was discussion that he likely wouldn’t play, given how talented our incoming class was? Possibly (and of course I am only speculating), K set the expectation that he would not play, and the family agreed that he would be willing to redshirt. I seriously do not believe that a player who was confident enough to reclassify also planned to stay 5 years. My guess is that Joey had accepted the red shirt concept, but always wanted to play. And that’s what I hope was the case.

Phredd3
02-24-2019, 01:09 PM
the calls for zion to "shut it down" are beyond absurd at this point--especially given their didactic, annoying i-know-better-then-you-uncle-at-thanksgiving-dinner tone: "zion should shut it down, for the sake of his own future. while i believe that there is a sound argument to be made here, i can't really take any of these blowhards seriously unless they make the same argument for every potential first round pick. to say that zion, and zion alone, should shut it down, just has no logical basis at all. all of these kids are taking the same risk, and we're talking about real, life changing money for each and every one of them. when they make this case for zion, but seems fine to let the rest of these kids risk injury, it just reads as classic duke haters who are having a hard time grokking the idea that the best player in a generation, and possibly the most likable, is in a duke uniform, and seemingly having the time of his life.

But especially in Zion's particular case, "shutting it down" could actually be a lousy business decision. With the love affair the world seems to have with Zion these day, clearly a huge part of his value is in endorsement deals. I have to believe that refusing to play if he is otherwise able to do so would reduce the love affair and therefore reduce his endorsement value, especially as a younger player. Branding is such a huge deal these days, you'd think maximizing that would be a major consideration, and you'd think Jay Williams, of all people, would be able to recognize that.

Tooold
02-24-2019, 01:10 PM
But especially in Zion's particular case, "shutting it down" could actually be a lousy business decision. With the love affair the world seems to have with Zion these day, clearly a huge part of his value is in endorsement deals. I have to believe that refusing to play if he is otherwise able to do so would reduce the love affair and therefore reduce his endorsement value, especially as a younger player. Branding is such a huge deal these days, you'd think maximizing that would be a major consideration, and you'd think Jay Williams, of all people, would be able to recognize that.

Yes. perfectly put.

freshmanjs
02-24-2019, 01:11 PM
But especially in Zion's particular case, "shutting it down" could actually be a lousy business decision. With the love affair the world seems to have with Zion these day, clearly a huge part of his value is in endorsement deals. I have to believe that refusing to play if he is otherwise able to do so would reduce the love affair and therefore reduce his endorsement value, especially as a younger player. Branding is such a huge deal these days, you'd think maximizing that would be a major consideration, and you'd think Jay Williams, of all people, would be able to recognize that.

Obviously, they would never say that he "refused to play." If they decided to shut it down (which I agree they won't), then they would simply say that he is unable to play.

sagegrouse
02-24-2019, 01:12 PM
k is the GOAT...why do people always second guess him?

Possible answers?


It's the internet; what do you expect?
It's a conversational gambit. Rather than saying, "I wonder why K...," one says, "I think K should have..."
The "Greatest of All Time" is not the same as "infallible." In particular, K himself admits he is just guessing some of the time.
We obviously don't have a life. What else are we to do?

budwom
02-24-2019, 01:13 PM
Except Joey Baker was not a top 25 recruit. He was in the 40s by most services and #37 in the RSCI. Maybe he would have left early, but guys ranked at that level hardly ever do.



Are you kidding? Joey Baker has a career 39.8% defensive rebounding percentage! ;)

yeah, except according to 247, he WAS the 25th rated recruit in the 2019 class before reclassifying to 2018...always good to get the excess nits picked here...see today's Devils Den article for evidence thereof.

Phredd3
02-24-2019, 01:17 PM
Obviously, they would never say that he "refused to play." If they decided to shut it down (which I agree they won't), then they would simply say that he is unable to play.

Even then, that means not participating in college basketball's marquee event. You'll be losing brand value even if you can sell the part about a "day-to-day" injury lasting for more two months. And the latter isn't a certainty. Things like that have a way of leaking if they aren't true.

ncexnyc
02-24-2019, 01:22 PM
I read the posts from yesterday and come on this afternoon and find a ton of new pages to read through. As I said yesterday, there was definitely a lot to talk about.

Two posts from today caught my attention so I'll address those. I see we are back to the thinking that having a capable shooter sitting in the corner is a nice thing to have. I seem to recall hearing that time after time during Andre Dawkins time with the team and somehow that didn't really pan out. Feel free to point out the ring from his freshman year, but those other years didn't really support that theory.

The second post was Old Navy's, about mid season NBA trades. I'm sorry, but I don't believe that's a valid comparison to make. The trade involves receiving a known quantity in exchange for something you don't need or can accept losing, such as a draft pick. Sure Coach K sees Baker in practice, but there's a huge difference between practice play and game play and as we saw yesterday, Baker didn't exactly get a ton of minutes, although I will say he didn't look bad.

BandAlum83
02-24-2019, 01:38 PM
That doesn’t explain it. If it was zero cost to play him before, then why not play him? Either it’s not really zero cost or there is some other reason that hasn’t been mentioned here yet.

The redshirt must have had some value. It’s the only way this makes sense. Must be the case that It had some value, but they’ve now decided it’s more valuable for him to play.

“Over the last 48 hours I’ve sat down with every player” -Coach K (paraphrased)

Perhaps it’s a simple as Joey saying “Coach, I want to play and I think I can contribute to this team. I’ve talked it over with my family, and if you think I’m ready, I’ll go to war for you, the coaches and my teammates”

barely
02-24-2019, 01:39 PM
I actually thought he looked poised out there. Picked up a couple of rebounds and his one shot had good form and just missed. Thought he had a nice block right before the half that was called as a foul.
Echoing your thought: although Baker only played five minutes, I felt really good about his contributions and his poise. He looked confident and like he belonged. I think he can really help us. The block was an impressive athletic play. If he hadn’t just grazed the shooter’s head, we’d be talking about it as a huge play.

Also, I was suprised how big he looked on the court. I was skeptical of his listed height of 6’7”, but he looked every bit of that out there. AOC is listed at 6’6” and Baker looked taller and obviously bigger and stronger.

HereBeforeCoachK
02-24-2019, 01:54 PM
Possible answers?


It's the internet; what do you expect?
It's a conversational gambit. Rather than saying, "I wonder why K...," one says, "I think K should have..."
The "Greatest of All Time" is not the same as "infallible." In particular, K himself admits he is just guessing some of the time.
We obviously don't have a life. What else are we to do?


All of which is 100% correct...and makes me think why some people second guess those who second guess...I mean, point 1 above is obvious, point 2 is no doubt true some of the time, and number 3 is what the second guessers of the second guessers don't seem to realize. Which then leaves who is guilty of point 4 as an open question...:cool:

Oh, I'll add a 5th point, fully believing him to be the GOAT - and wondering about a decision from time to time are not mutually exclusive notions. He seems to be secure enough in who he is to admit he sometimes guesses...and anyone who guesses, also second guesses.

Kedsy
02-24-2019, 02:06 PM
yeah, except according to 247, he WAS the 25th rated recruit in the 2019 class before reclassifying to 2018...always good to get the excess nits picked here...see today's Devils Den article for evidence thereof.

Apples and oranges. A summer (or even mid-season junior year) rating means next to nothing, especially for a kid ranked at the very edge of the top 25 who later reclassified.

But even if it didn't, I disagree with your original assessment. Since the RSCI started in 1998, Duke has had 11 recruits ranked in the 20s. Of those, only two left early for the NBA (#21 Luke Kennard who left after his sophomore season and #26 Mike Dunleavy who left after his junior season). If 82% of Duke recruits ranked in the 20s played four years, it's sensible (though obviously not 100% definite) to assume Joey Baker would too. This would be even more true for someone who was actually ranked #37.

BandAlum83
02-24-2019, 02:15 PM
A little humor gold off reddit

9111

https://www.reddit.com/r/CollegeBasketball/comments/au2ngn/comment/eh565mc?st=JSJ2HHAT&sh=b60bbe9b

Sorry. Not funny at all. I really don’t get it

devildeac
02-24-2019, 02:15 PM
One with the most corn syrup. I just love corn syrup. Extra corn syrup please.

Yes, please. :p:rolleyes:

9112

budwom
02-24-2019, 02:21 PM
Apples and oranges. A summer (or even mid-season junior year) rating means next to nothing, especially for a kid ranked at the very edge of the top 25 who later reclassified.

But even if it didn't, I disagree with your original assessment. Since the RSCI started in 1998, Duke has had 11 recruits ranked in the 20s. Of those, only two left early for the NBA (#21 Luke Kennard who left after his sophomore season and #26 Mike Dunleavy who left after his junior season). If 82% of Duke recruits ranked in the 20s played four years, it's sensible (though obviously not 100% definite) to assume Joey Baker would too. This would be even more true for someone who was actually ranked #37.

1998 to 2019 is every bit as much apples to oranges. I doubt anyone, including Baker, is too concerned about 2023 right now.

BandAlum83
02-24-2019, 02:30 PM
14 out of 40 games, right? Assuming we get double bye in the ACCT. 35%.

I didn’t do an exact calculation. Let’s talk the spirit of my post. If I had done a calculation, I actually thought this was our 26th game, not 27th. So 15 out of 40 games. 37.5%

Your correction is notes and accepted. My point still stands:

Joey has an opportunity to make a significant contribution to the season

devildeac
02-24-2019, 02:33 PM
Rewatching the game. Bilas is insufferable.

You're listening to him a second time? :eek::eek:

(;))

Steven43
02-24-2019, 02:42 PM
Why, why why? Why did Coach K play Joey Baker? What will he do with him going forward? Why did Jack White sit the whole game out? Injured? Discipline? Why didn't Marques Bolden start, or play much to the second half? Why O'Connell?

No, it's not the DBR posters--it's opposing coaching staffs, tossing and turning in bed last night, trying to figure it all out.

One of the problems of being Duke, as we've seen in past seasons, is that your game is exposed by February. Everyone's seen what you like to do. I think K has realized this and he's starting trying to add new wrinkles late in the season. Truly he is the GOAT.

Great take. I hadn’t thought of the Joey Baker move from this particular angle. I agree with your suggestion that Coach K is not only trying to help his team on the floor, but is also hoping to befuddle upcoming opponents as to how to prepare.

Zion getting mildly injured — and Duje thus having no real chance at beating UNC that night — is starting to seem like a blessing in disguise. I think lots of good things are going to result from it. And I simply cannot WAIT for the rematch. UNC fans are at an all-time smugness high, and I am almost at my breaking point with them.

Skydog
02-24-2019, 02:49 PM
Some slow-down-your-horses-guys type of thoughts just to get me in trouble with the board:

AOC taking and making more shots wasn't just due to a decision on his part - a significant factor was the increased time and space available behind the arc against Syr compact zone. He has not shown an ability to get open against a good mtm defense yet.

Also AOC's minutes have been limited as much or more by his defense as his offense. He played better defense in this game, but that is one game against one opponent. It doesn't mean this issue is "solved." He will need to continue to improve this aspect if he wants to continue to get significant playing time.

RJ had an awesome offensive game and his efficiency and shot selection continue to improve. And he is getting an impressive # of assists - 21 over the last 3 games. But his defense is still a problem. He wasn't exploited so much by Syr but against UNC probably 3/4's of their uncontested layups from their half-court offense came from RJ not keeping track of his man in pnr situations. He also has 8 turnovers over the last two games and most have come from lazy, inattentive passes (a la CAM in this game). The guy is an awesome scorer but needs to focus on the defensive end if we are to be truly elite.

Bolden is a beast under the basket these days. He makes 2 or 3 unforced errors (travels, silly fouls, etc.) a game but he's a strong rebounder and space eater and for the season he's single-handedly blocked 9% of opponents 2 pt attempts. That's almost 50% better than even Zion's block %.

DeLaurier has some really good to great stats as well (good 2pt fg, block, steal and rebounding percentages) but a lot of that good is wiped out by his unacceptably high 24% turnover rate. That is the highest on the team, with AOC second at 22% and Cam at 20%. Also he is by far our poorest ft shooter at 58%. Fortunately and unfortunately he draws fouls on only 2.9% of his plays so he doesn't get many ft's to worry about.

kAzE
02-24-2019, 02:54 PM
Definitely one of the weirdest games of the season . . .

I'm sure the decision to play Joey Baker has been discussed plenty (apologies if this post is mostly redundant, I've only skimmed part of the thread), but I have no problem with it. This team isn't as deep as we once thought, and Joey clearly showed he has some scoring ability in those Canada games. True, it was a curious decision to hold off on playing him at all until late in February, but this team has a chance to win the national championship. Adding Joey does not hurt. An additional scorer off the bench is only going to help. Opponents are well aware at this point that Tre, Jack, Marques, Jordan, and Javin do not need to be respected from beyond the arc, and that's just not a good place for us to be.

Great game from Alex, obviously. We desperately needed that performance from him, especially in a game against a 2-3 zone, with another poor shooting night from Cam. Unfortunately, he's still hurting us on defense, though not for lack of effort. He's just not able to match up with bigger players, and that is not ideal with our strategy of switching every screen. But I gotta give AOC credit. We had to have this win to keep pace in the standings, and AOC delivered.

That said, I really hope Joey starts earning more minutes. There's a chance he could be exactly the guy we needed Jack and Alex to be: a shooter who can hold his own on defense. Alex is the best shooter on the team, I think that's clear now, but he's a specialist. Joey could maybe be more of a 2-way player.

By burning Joey's redshirt, I think this is a sign from Coach K that he's pulling out all the stops. And it also unfortunately could mean that Jack has lost his spot in the rotation. The goal is to win it all. I'm rooting for Jack, but he just hasn't been able to hit shots, and we can't afford wait for him any longer.

brlftz
02-24-2019, 03:13 PM
Sorry. Not funny at all. I really don’t get it

It’s a meme. Get with it old man!

richardjackson199
02-24-2019, 03:17 PM
Definitely one of the weirdest games of the season . . .

I'm sure the decision to play Joey Baker has been discussed plenty (apologies if this post is mostly redundant, I've only skimmed part of the thread), but I have no problem with it. This team isn't as deep as we once thought, and Joey clearly showed he has some scoring ability in those Canada games. True, it was a curious decision to hold off on playing him at all until late in February, but this team has a chance to win the national championship. Adding Joey does not hurt. An additional scorer off the bench is only going to help.

Great game from Alex, obviously. We desperately needed that performance from him, especially in a game against a 2-3 zone, with another poor shooting night from Cam. Unfortunately, he's still hurting us on defense, though not for lack of effort. He's just not able to match up with bigger players, and that is not ideal with our strategy of switching every screen.

I really hope Joey starts earning more minutes. There's a chance he could be exactly the guy we needed Jack and Alex to be: a shooter who can hold his own on defense. Alex is the best shooter on the team, I think that's clear now, but he's a specialist. Joey could maybe be more of a 2-way player.

By burning Joey's redshirt, I think this is a sign from Coach K that he's pulling out all the stops. And it also unfortunately could mean that Jack has lost his spot in the rotation. The goal is to win it all. We can't afford wait for Jack.

Agreed. I obviously think it was a great move. There's never a guarantee. But it gives the team an injection of energy. After the UNCheat debacle, we needed energy. Joey showed on the bench vs Louisville that he has that passion and energy.

Good shooting can be contagious, just like bad shooting. Joey is just one more guy who can maybe get hot when we need him to. Maybe that takes some pressure off Jack and Alex. Or maybe, like the open-try out for shooting assertion, it motivates them to step up and fill that role better. Whether Joey plays more minutes and makes more threes, or motivates someone else to play more effective minutes and shoot better, the end result is the same. Maybe adding Joey makes this team better. A glaring weakness is improved by some degree. The chances of this team winning it all improve.

And Kaze, you still win a pie and deservedly so. You bet that Jack would earn more minutes. I bet that Joey would. We're almost in March - Joey ain't going to catch him. I concede.
I'm thrilled Joey will get a chance to make this team better and a chance to earn a ring. Just let me know by PM with your address which pie you want from this website:
https://shop.gtpie.com/category/fruit_pies

I'm rooting for Joey. And I'm rooting for Jack too. What Captain Jack brought to our team when he was on was just beautiful. Seeing him flummox Calipari was priceless. I'm rooting for Duke.

In the words of Grayson, "Let's go!" In the words of Joey, "We're doing this!" HUGE game Tues. The winner of the ACC regular season Will earn a #1 seed. Let's get it.

BandAlum83
02-24-2019, 03:21 PM
It’s a meme. Get with it old man!

I get memes. This was a not-very-good-meme that makes a joke of a shoe blow out that had the potential to end a NPOY favorite’s season while severely reducing Duke’s prospects for number 6.

It also plays into the “what have you done for me lately theme” aimed at an injured player. Too soon and tone deaf.

Putting something into a meme format doesn’t automatically make it true, better or funny.