The Shoes - It MUST Be The Shoes

[slower]

Since Zion wore Adidas in high school, can he switch to Adidas for the rest of the season? I know Duke is a Nike school, but it seems like it would make for an interesting legal challenge.

For all you lawyers out there, what would happen if Zion demanded to wear Adidas, as a matter of safety? Would he have a case?

(Sorry if I got the Spike Lee quote slightly wrong)

[HereBeforeCoachK]

Whoever Zion does sign with for the Shoe Contract....it just doubled last night.

[slower]

Whoever Zion does sign with for the Shoe Contract...it just doubled last night.

Phil Knight did not sleep well last night. If Zion signs with another brand, they can use that blowout image\footage forever.

[JasonEvans]

Since Zion wore Adidas in high school, can he switch to Adidas for the rest of the season? I know Duke is a Nike school, but it seems like it would make for an interesting legal challenge.

For all you lawyers out there, what would happen if Zion demanded to wear Adidas, as a matter of safety? Would he have a case?

(Sorry if I got the Spike Lee quote slightly wrong)

I'm pretty sure Nike's contract requires all Duke players to wear their shoes... there are no exceptions. There is a zero percent chance Nike would allow this as it would be a PR disaster for them... of course, this whole thing has already been a PR disaster for them. Twitter was awash with memes of Addidas and Under Armour executives celebrating and the such last night and I saw Puma doing some epic trolling.

Meanwhile, Nike stock is down 1.6% in pre-market trading (https://www.businessinsider.com/nike-shares-slide-after-zion-williamsons-sneaker-malfunction-2019-2). Everyone says it is because of the Zion shoe explosion last night (market futures are largely flat, so this is not a market wide thing). This means Zion's shoe malfunction has cost Nike just a little less than $2 billion in stock value.

TWO BILLION DOLLARS!!

-Jason "Duke gets a lot lot lot of money from Nike... I am certain Nike is going to look into how this happened and do everything they can to make sure it does not happen again" Evans

[DevilYouKnow]

Since Zion wore Adidas in high school, can he switch to Adidas for the rest of the season? I know Duke is a Nike school, but it seems like it would make for an interesting legal challenge.

For all you lawyers out there, what would happen if Zion demanded to wear Adidas, as a matter of safety? Would he have a case?

(Sorry if I got the Spike Lee quote slightly wrong)

Wasn't Zion out w injuries most of his senior year in HS?

Doesn't bode well for going back to Adidas, regardless of the legality of it.

[slower]

I'm pretty sure Nike's contract requires all Duke players to wear their shoes... there are no exceptions. There is a zero percent chance Nike would allow this as it would be a PR disaster for them... of course, this whole thing has already been a PR disaster for them. Twitter was awash with memes of Addidas and Under Armour executives celebrating and the such last night and I saw Puma doing some epic trolling.

Meanwhile, Nike stock is down 1.6% in pre-market trading (https://www.businessinsider.com/nike-shares-slide-after-zion-williamsons-sneaker-malfunction-2019-2). Everyone says it is because of the Zion shoe explosion last night (market futures are largely flat, so this is not a market wide thing). This means Zion's shoe malfunction has cost Nike just a little less than $2 billion in stock value.

TWO BILLION DOLLARS!!

-Jason "Duke gets a lot lot lot of money from Nike... I am certain Nike is going to look into how this happened and do everything they can to make sure it does not happen again" Evans

I get that it's a contract, but part of me doesn't see how a university can legally dictate that its players MUST wear certain brands. It would make a heck of a challenge/case, wouldn't it? Zion, worried about his health wearing Nikes, demands to wear Adidas, in the interest of safety. Would be (more of) a complete PR nightmare for Nike.

Just saw the post above mine. Maybe there's not THAT much of a difference across shoe brands. Looks REALLY bad for Nike, though.

[HereBeforeCoachK]

I get that it's a contract, but part of me doesn't see how a university can legally dictate that its players MUST wear certain brands. It would make a heck of a challenge/case, wouldn't it? Zion, worried about his health wearing Nikes, demands to wear Adidas, in the interest of safety. Would be (more of) a complete PR nightmare for Nike.

And because it's Zion, will this change the entire shoe contract w university paradigm? I know Nike's contract with Duke includes all gear, not just shoes - but it's the shoe deals that drive this train. I wonder if Duke's legal team will be touching base today with Oregon HQ.

[HereBeforeCoachK]

I'm pretty sure Nike's contract requires all Duke players to wear their shoes... there are no exceptions. There is a zero percent chance Nike would allow this as it would be a PR disaster for them... of course, this whole thing has already been a PR disaster for them. Twitter was awash with memes of Addidas and Under Armour executives celebrating and the such last night and I saw Puma doing some epic trolling.

Meanwhile, Nike stock is down 1.6% in pre-market trading (https://www.businessinsider.com/nike-shares-slide-after-zion-williamsons-sneaker-malfunction-2019-2). Everyone says it is because of the Zion shoe explosion last night (market futures are largely flat, so this is not a market wide thing). This means Zion's shoe malfunction has cost Nike just a little less than $2 billion in stock value.

TWO BILLION DOLLARS!!

-Jason "Duke gets a lot lot lot of money from Nike... I am certain Nike is going to look into how this happened and do everything they can to make sure it does not happen again" Evans

I think Nike would make their PR disaster worse if they made a stink about that, should Zion want to go back to Adidas.

[mapleleafdevil]

Amazing that the Manu Ginobli shoe explosion didn't get the same coverage!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-qNeNzaD5YE

[HereBeforeCoachK]

Amazing that the Manu Ginobli shoe explosion didn't get the same coverage!


Well, not sure if you were being sarcastic about it being amazing it didn't get the same coverage...but Mano's shoe did the exact same thing it appears. That said, it was not Duke Carolina, it was not Zion, it didn't cause an injury, and the game wasn't hyped to the hilt for a full week prior, and far as I know, not a single former President mouthing "he broke his shoe" for the cameras.

BUT IT WAS ALSO A NIKE.......

[brevity]

All Day I Dream About Support.

Odd how it takes an incident like this to make me wonder why Duke and Carolina use the same shoe company — specifically the one that became as big as it did because of a former Carolina player. I get that basic PR and financial self-preservation (and the potential for future earnings) require Nike to be on the level, but it still feels a little like trusting the arms dealer who supplies you and your enemy, only here legs are at stake.

[BD80]

All Day I Dream About Support.

Odd how it takes an incident like this to make me wonder why Duke and Carolina use the same shoe company — specifically the one that became as big as it did because of a former Carolina player. I get that basic PR and financial self-preservation (and the potential for future earnings) require Nike to be on the level, but it still feels a little like trusting the arms dealer who supplies you and your enemy, only here legs are at stake.

So neither gets a leg up on the other?

Neither has to foot the bill?

So both schools toe the line?

Kneed I go on?

[slower]

So neither gets a leg up on the other?

Neither has to foot the bill?

So both schools toe the line?

Kneed I go on?

Not meaning to be a heel or overly arch, but I believe you should lace your tongue.

[HereBeforeCoachK]

Not meaning to be a heel or overly arch, but I believe you should lace your tongue.

Tread lightly.
Don't have them in stitches.

[Matches]

I think it's kind of a shame that most of the college and pro athletes are wearing the big name brands in the first place. Nike, Adidas, UA, Puma... they're all kind of crap shoes. Brooks or New Balance would be much safer and provide more stability for the athletes - but they don't have tons of celebrity endorsements and lucrative deals with coaches.

My running shoes are higher quality than the shoes Zion was wearing last night. That really shouldn't be the case.

[Edouble]

I think it's kind of a shame that most of the college and pro athletes are wearing the big name brands in the first place. Nike, Adidas, UA, Puma... they're all kind of crap shoes. Brooks or New Balance would be much safer and provide more stability for the athletes - but they don't have tons of celebrity endorsements and lucrative deals with coaches.

My running shoes are higher quality than the shoes Zion was wearing last night. That really shouldn't be the case.

Are you a shoe expert? How did you come to this conclusion?

I am 6'2", 200lbs. Obviously nowhere near Zion's size, but not a small person either. My podiatrist recommended running shoes from several companies. I found Nike to be the most comfortable and to have the most supportive "feel" after trying out the strictly running shoe brands, like Brooks and New Balance.

I have a hard time believing that so many of the top athletes in the world aren't outfitted in the best available footwear. Why wouldn't Nike use the best support technology available?

[budwom]

I believe I recall instances when a player on a particular team did not like the brand his team endorsed, so he'd buy another brand and (for example) paint on a Nike swoosh logo.

p.s. Nike Quality Control VP might be getting a few calls today...what time do they wake up in Viet Nam?

[jv001]

Are you a shoe expert? How did you come to this conclusion?

I am 6'2", 200lbs. Obviously nowhere near Zion's size, but not a small person either. My podiatrist recommended running shoes from several companies. I found Nike to be the most comfortable and to have the most supportive "feel" after trying out the strictly running shoe brands, like Brooks and New Balance.

I have a hard time believing that so many of the top athletes in the world aren't outfitted in the best available footwear. Why wouldn't Nike use the best support technology available?

My wife has problems with her feet and the podiatrist recommended Nike shoes for her. However I still can't get all the foot injuries Duke has experienced out of my mind. GoDuke!

[Matches]

Are you a shoe expert? How did you come to this conclusion?



Not an expert by any means, but I am a runner and have researched it pretty extensively. I've also spoken to several physicians, who were unanimous in their opinions.

[HereBeforeCoachK]

I believe I recall instances when a player on a particular team did not like the brand his team endorsed, so he'd buy another brand and (for example) paint on a Nike swoosh logo.

p.s. Nike Quality Control VP might be getting a few calls today...what time do they wake up in Viet Nam?

...a lot earlier than HQ in Oregon...and than the stock market in NY

[slower]

Might it be possible that Zion will destroy the brand created by Jordan? Of course, I'm being silly (I don't wish economic ruin or job loss on Nike's employees) - but it WOULD be pretty classic.

[sagegrouse]

I'm pretty sure Nike's contract requires all Duke players to wear their shoes... there are no exceptions. There is a zero percent chance Nike would allow this as it would be a PR disaster for them... of course, this whole thing has already been a PR disaster for them. Twitter was awash with memes of Addidas and Under Armour executives celebrating and the such last night and I saw Puma doing some epic trolling.

Meanwhile, Nike stock is down 1.6% in pre-market trading (https://www.businessinsider.com/nike-shares-slide-after-zion-williamsons-sneaker-malfunction-2019-2). Everyone says it is because of the Zion shoe explosion last night (market futures are largely flat, so this is not a market wide thing). This means Zion's shoe malfunction has cost Nike just a little less than $2 billion in stock value.

TWO BILLION DOLLARS!!

-Jason "Duke gets a lot lot lot of money from Nike... I am certain Nike is going to look into how this happened and do everything they can to make sure it does not happen again" Evans

Jason -- I agree with you about the Duke-Nike contract terms, but Nike is perfectly capable of making a custom shoe for Zion that creates a totally new shoe and may even include features of any shoe on earth, including Adidas. This happens in golf all the time, I believe, such as when a player changes clubs and balls for business reasons but still likes his old irons or driver or golf ball. The manufacturer's interest can be advanced through the prominent display of the logo.

[HereBeforeCoachK]

Jason -- I agree with you about the Duke-Nike contract terms, but Nike is perfectly capable of making a custom shoe for Zion that creates a totally new shoe and may even include features of any shoe on earth, including Adidas. This happens in golf all the time, I believe, such as when a player changes clubs and balls for business reasons but still likes his old irons or driver or golf ball. The manufacturer's interest can be advanced through the prominent display of the logo.

In addition to the customization, there is the point you made about the logo. An Adidas shoe with a Nike logo would probably pass all necessary legal and contractual muster.....even if a bit on the grey area side.

[J4Kop99]

In addition to the customization, there is the point you made about the logo. An Adidas shoe with a Nike logo would probably pass all necessary legal and contractual muster....even if a bit on the grey area side.

I am not a lawyer but would Adidas then have grounds for a complaint?

[JasonEvans]

In addition to the customization, there is the point you made about the logo. An Adidas shoe with a Nike logo would probably pass all necessary legal and contractual muster....even if a bit on the grey area side.

This ain't happening in a vacuum. Zion and his shoes are the ONLY STORY IN SPORTS RIGHT NOW! I am serious. ESPN is 24/7 Zion/shoe at this point. When/if Zion laces up sneakers again, everyone is going to ask what kind of shoes they are. Nike cannot say, "these are Addidas shoes that we put a Nike logo on." Nike will need to say, "These are the Nike ______ (fill in the blank)."

I guarantee you Nike is doing a forensic dive into those shoes right now. They will figure out what happened and address it, I am certain. In fact, I would not be at all surprised to hear that they are making a new model of shoe with extra support/strength, "for players who want to cut and explode like some college athletes do (not allowed to use Zion's name in an ad but we all know who they are talking about)."

-Jason "Duke and Nike have an undisclosed financial relationship, but I guarantee you it is $10+ mill per year... that's serious money" Evans

[roywhite]

This ain't happening in a vacuum. Zion and his shoes are the ONLY STORY IN SPORTS RIGHT NOW! I am serious. ESPN is 24/7 Zion/shoe at this point. When/if Zion laces up sneakers again, everyone is going to ask what kind of shoes they are. Nike cannot say, "these are Addidas shoes that we put a Nike logo on." Nike will need to say, "These are the Nike ______ (fill in the blank)."

I guarantee you Nike is doing a forensic dive into those shoes right now. They will figure out what happened and address it, I am certain. In fact, I would not be at all surprised to hear that they are making a new model of shoe with extra support/strength, "for players who want to cut and explode like some college athletes do (not allowed to use Zion's name in an ad but we all know who they are talking about)."

-Jason "Duke and Nike have an undisclosed financial relationship, but I guarantee you it is $10+ mill per year... that's serious money" Evans

If you had asked Nike prior to this incident, "who is the last person in the world you would want to see have a Nike shoe failure?" they might have answered Zion Williamson. Of course, Zion might also be the answer to a question of what college player out there puts the most stress on his basketball shoes due to his size and power?

[CrazyNotCrazie]

I’m surprised I haven’t seen quotes from a physics professor about what kind of force and stress it puts on a shoe to have a guy with Zions size and speed plant hard, and compare that to the stress tests Nike likely does on its shoes for durability.

[HereBeforeCoachK]

I am not a lawyer but would Adidas then have grounds for a complaint?

I"m not a shoe company exec, but I'm thinking this would guarantee Zion signs with my company after college....so I think I'd let it slide....

[Duke76]

This ain't happening in a vacuum. Zion and his shoes are the ONLY STORY IN SPORTS RIGHT NOW! I am serious. ESPN is 24/7 Zion/shoe at this point. When/if Zion laces up sneakers again, everyone is going to ask what kind of shoes they are. Nike cannot say, "these are Addidas shoes that we put a Nike logo on." Nike will need to say, "These are the Nike ______ (fill in the blank)."

I guarantee you Nike is doing a forensic dive into those shoes right now. They will figure out what happened and address it, I am certain. In fact, I would not be at all surprised to hear that they are making a new model of shoe with extra support/strength, "for players who want to cut and explode like some college athletes do (not allowed to use Zion's name in an ad but we all know who they are talking about)."

-Jason "Duke and Nike have an undisclosed financial relationship, but I guarantee you it is $10+ mill per year... that's serious money" Evans

we had a discussion around the physics and probability of Zion squeezing the basketball.....where is the equal treatment?

[HereBeforeCoachK]

I’m surprised I haven’t seen quotes from a physics professor about what kind of force and stress it puts on a shoe to have a guy with Zions size and speed plant hard, and compare that to the stress tests Nike likely does on its shoes for durability.

It's probably already in the works, that sports science feature ESPN has...

[mapleleafdevil]

Well, not sure if you were being sarcastic about it being amazing it didn't get the same coverage...but Mano's shoe did the exact same thing it appears. That said, it was not Duke Carolina, it was not Zion, it didn't cause an injury, and the game wasn't hyped to the hilt for a full week prior, and far as I know, not a single former President mouthing "he broke his shoe" for the cameras.

BUT IT WAS ALSO A NIKE....

That was sarcasm, but the point is that it was the exact same thing, and same brand shoe.

[hallcity]

I believe I recall instances when a player on a particular team did not like the brand his team endorsed, so he'd buy another brand and (for example) paint on a Nike swoosh logo.

p.s. Nike Quality Control VP might be getting a few calls today...what time do they wake up in Viet Nam?

My recollection is that NCAA rules say that a school cannot force a player to wear a particular brand of shoe. However, if you wear a size 17 EEE, you can't just go to the store and buy your own pair of athletic shoes. Zion can't get free shoes except through Duke and Duke has a contract with Nike. Anyway, I expect that when he returns, Zion will be wearing shoes that are constructed in a different way so this never happens again.

[DukieInKansas]

we had a discussion around the physics and probability of Zion squeezing the basketball....where is the equal treatment?

Forget the physics, are there any good sabotage conspiracy theories out there? :D

I wouldn't understand the physics involved but it would be interesting to see it explained.

Will Phil Knight personally deliver the newly designed shoe for Zion? Will he be on his knees when he does it?

Most importantly - heal completely, Zion. It is so much fun to watch you play and see you smiling on the court.

[wavedukefan70s]

we had a discussion around the physics and probability of Zion squeezing the basketball...where is the equal treatment?

No shoe expert here.my kids a freshman in high school.(in not saying hes as athletic as zion but hes a quick lineman)hes not zions hieght but fairly close in weight.hes 5ft10 267 to 275 .he has busted the toe out of nikes before at about a half of season of use.
Maybe they were just worn out .I had no hesitation purchasing another pair .I also purchased adidas .both shoes have held out durring spring varsity training so far.
We didnt see any indication from the outside of the ones that failed before his piggy's came through.id imagine it's a every so often occurrence. It's just this time it was zion on the biggest stage on tv.i would think shoes fail a good bit more than we realize.
On a side note adidas sponsors our school.you can wear different cleats but you have to cover the label by taping or blacking them out where you cannot tell it's another brand.also I'm thrilled with adidas they really take care of the teams needs .they supply everything. Multiple uniforms cleats and gloves if you want .I'm sure nike does the same with thier teams.the kids feel like rockk stars with new uniforms.

[HereBeforeCoachK]

Will Phil Knight personally deliver the newly designed shoe for Zion? Will he be on his knees when he does it?


I doubt it. Knight is 81, and a billionaire. Maybe 30 years ago he does this^

[hallcity]

Found this picture of the shoe after the blowout. Wow.9101

[BD80]

Found this picture of the shoe after the blowout. Wow.9101

Absolutely no question that the tread did its job. Wow, his foot tore through the rubber wrap on the toe!

[HereBeforeCoachK]

Absolutely no question that the tread did its job. Wow, his foot tore through the rubber wrap on the toe!

When people go back thru the way back machine and remember than Ginobli had the exact same blow out with a pair of Nikes.......the PR problem they face is going to be much worse. (Ginobli was not hurt, and it was merely an unimportant NBA reg season game...but the shoe failure was precisely the same.) As the line in Secretariat goes...."once is a fluke.....twice is non performance..."

[ehdg]

Not being a lawyer, I wonder if Zion might have a case against Nike if it's found the shoe was defective in some way. Improperly made or the stitching was done correctly. Think of the case he could have and g-d forbid he was seriously injured, he had some claim against them!!

[HereBeforeCoachK]

Not being a lawyer, I wonder if Zion might have a case against Nike if it's found the shoe was defective in some way. Improperly made or the stitching was done correctly. Think of the case he could have and g-d forbid he was seriously injured, he had some claim against them!!

Only if he could show financial injury...which doesn't (thankfully) appear to be the case. In fact, his shoe contract value is at an all time high as of 9:05 last night. With financial injury, it would be interesting case IMO.

[AtlDuke72]

Zion definitely has a case. Pain and suffering is an element of damage as well as financial injury. Hopefully minimal injury but who knows at this point. Since Duke has a contract with Nike there may even be a claim for Duke, but this would depend on the terms of the contract

[gus]

Phil Knight did not sleep well last night.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GO0JaecRWy0

[slower]

Only if he could show financial injury...which doesn't (thankfully) appear to be the case. In fact, his shoe contract value is at an all time high as of 9:05 last night. With financial injury, it would be interesting case IMO.

In a strange way, what happened last night might have been the most financially rewarding thing he ever does (so far, at least). The ad campaigns can make gold out of that destroyed shoe.

[PackMan97]

Did MJ call in some favors...after all he built Nike into what it is now.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z5rRZdiu1UE

FWIW - Nike has lost $1.2 billion in market cap today.

[HereBeforeCoachK]

Zion definitely has a case. Pain and suffering is an element of damage as well as financial injury. Hopefully minimal injury but who knows at this point. Since Duke has a contract with Nike there may even be a claim for Duke, but this would depend on the terms of the contract

There's no evidence yet of the bar of "pain and suffering" being met. Not close.


In a strange way, what happened last night might have been the most financially rewarding thing he ever does (so far, at least). The ad campaigns can make gold out of that destroyed shoe.

yep, #irony #karma or #lemon into lemondade...

[slower]

Did MJ call in some favors...

Being serious - I wouldn't put it past him. One of the most calculating and Machiavellian athletes of our time.

[jv001]

Being serious - I wouldn't put it past him. One of the most calculating and Machiavellian athletes of our time.

Oh, I wish I could give you sporkz but alas I must wait 24 hours. GTHC and GoDuke!

[W&LHoo]

I would think it would change the liability landscape if Nike was aware of the product defect. And this tweet from former UVA player Akil Mitchell would suggest they were:

https://twitter.com/the_superhoo/status/1098540439681024000?s=21

[JetpackJesus]

I think it's kind of a shame that most of the college and pro athletes are wearing the big name brands in the first place. Nike, Adidas, UA, Puma... they're all kind of crap shoes. Brooks or New Balance would be much safer and provide more stability for the athletes - but they don't have tons of celebrity endorsements and lucrative deals with coaches.

My running shoes are higher quality than the shoes Zion was wearing last night. That really shouldn't be the case.

I'm not going to play basketball in my running shoes. I also won't go running in my basketball shoes. They're designed for different purposes, and neither is well suited to fill the other's shoes.

[slower]

I would think it would change the liability landscape if Nike was aware of the product defect. And this tweet from former UVA player Akil Mitchell would suggest they were:

https://twitter.com/the_superhoo/status/1098540439681024000?s=21

That could be HUGE! Wow.

[Reddevil]

As a 55 year old man I have managed to buy many pairs of basketball shoes, tennis shoes, and cross trainers. Currently most of my athletic shoes are New Balance and Asics cross trainers for the gym. I have absolutely no proof, but I suspect many of these "brands" are created in the exact same sweatshops with different logos sewn on at the end. The build and quality are strikingly similar. Saucony, New Balance and Asics have nearly identical models and materials for instance. Others are having fun with Nike right now, but I wonder if behind the scenes all "brands" are checking their quality control both because it is an advisable time to do so, and because the same labor, designs and materials are being used to crank out multiple brands.

The same concept applies to heat pumps. People are sold on Trane, York, Carrier etc, but the installation is what really matters. Most of the parts for all of the brands come out of the same Chinese factories.

[duke79]

Absolutely no question that the tread did its job. Wow, his foot tore through the rubber wrap on the toe!

I'm not so sure about the "tread doing its job". I've watched the replay of the "shoe blowout" multiple times and it looks to me that the problem started when Zion, after he grabbed the ball, tried to stop and pivot and his shoe slid on the floor (and he almost did a split); then, (I think) he tried to put more pressure on his left foot and shoe (that was skidding on the floor) to stop and that's when the shoe blew out from that stress. I may be wrong but I'm not convinced that he didn't injure his knee BEFORE the force of his foot actually destroyed the side of the shoe.

It's interesting that in the press conference after the game, Coach K said that Zion has had problems in the past few games with slipping and skidding on the floor which leads me to believe that the real problem may be the treads on the bottom of his shoes. It you saw the close-up of the bottom of the shoe, when they were under his seat after Zion had taken them off and had gone to the locker room, the treads on the bottom had some sort of weird pattern to them and they didn't look to be very deep treads. You would like to think that Nike would do extensive testing on the treads of all their shoes to make sure they perform for the given sport but it looked to me that the tread pattern was more for "cosmetic" purposes than real life effectiveness. Admittedly, pure speculation on my part and I'm not sure if anyone else noticed the same thing?

[uh_no]

I'm not so sure about the "tread doing its job". I've watched the replay of the "shoe blowout" multiple times and it looks to me that the problem started when Zion, after he grabbed the ball, tried to stop and pivot and his shoe slid on the floor (and he almost did a split); then, (I think) he tried to put more pressure on his left foot and shoe (that was skidding on the floor) to stop and that's when the shoe blew out from that stress. I may be wrong but I'm not convinced that he didn't injure his knee BEFORE the force of his foot actually destroyed the side of the shoe.


I thought the shoe tore when he first planted, which caused the pressure to come off the sole and the shoe to split, leading to all the weight on his knee sideways, and then the shoe falling apart was inevitable anyway.

[duke79]

As a 55 year old man I have managed to buy many pairs of basketball shoes, tennis shoes, and cross trainers. Currently most of my athletic shoes are New Balance and Asics cross trainers for the gym. I have absolutely no proof, but I suspect many of these "brands" are created in the exact same sweatshops with different logos sewn on at the end. The build and quality are strikingly similar. Saucony, New Balance and Asics have nearly identical models and materials for instance. Others are having fun with Nike right now, but I wonder if behind the scenes all "brands" are checking their quality control both because it is an advisable time to do so, and because the same labor, designs and materials are being used to crank out multiple brands.

The same concept applies to heat pumps. People are sold on Trane, York, Carrier etc, but the installation is what really matters. Most of the parts for all of the brands come out of the same Chinese factories.

No doubt you are right here. Most of the athletic "shoes" (or sneakers as we used to call them in the old days) from the different companies are being made in the same factories with the same quality control and manufacturing processes. Yea, there may be some minor difference in materials and design and cosmetics but I don't believe there are huge differences in the shoes.

I'm actually amazed we don't see more shoes fall apart in college and pro games. My understanding is that, for the most part, all the different parts of the basketball and other athletic shoes are being held together by glue. It's not like they're being hand sewn any more.

[duke79]

I thought the shoe tore when he first planted, which caused the pressure to come off the sole and the shoe to split, leading to all the weight on his knee sideways, and then the shoe falling apart was inevitable anyway.

You may be right; it happened quite fast but it looked to me like he skidded first and even the announcer said that he skidded first and then the shoe disintegrated. Hard to know the exact sequence.

[TruBlu]

Chances are that all of the players’ shoes are soon being inspected by either Duke Staff or Nike officials or both. Failure to do so would be incompetent.

Zion’s blown out shoe will get a thorough autopsy, but the results may or may not ever be released publicly.

[Lar77]

You may be right; it happened quite fast but it looked to me like he skidded first and even the announcer said that he skidded first and then the shoe disintegrated. Hard to know the exact sequence.

I thought it was a short skid, tread gripped. shoe blew on the left foot. He then had a very wide stance (half split) and I thought he had pulled a hammy at first. The right leg went into one of those "not supposed to bend that way positions". Fortunately, he fell back so his weight did not exacerbate the angle.

Honestly, when he walked off the court and even walking out of the arena, it looked to me like he was hurt (clear limp) but not awful.

[Lar77]

No doubt you are right here. Most of the athletic "shoes" (or sneakers as we used to call them in the old days) from the different companies are being made in the same factories with the same quality control and manufacturing processes. Yea, there may be some minor difference in materials and design and cosmetics but I don't believe there are huge differences in the shoes.

I'm actually amazed we don't see more shoes fall apart in college and pro games. My understanding is that, for the most part, all the different parts of the basketball and other athletic shoes are being held together by glue. It's not like they're being hand sewn any more.

Is this an opportunity for Big Baller? Where's LaVar?

[duke79]

Nike stock was down .90 today or 1.06% when the S&P 500 was down .35%, so this represents about a $1.6 billion loss in the market value of Nike (out of a total capitalization of about $130 billion). Not as bad as it could have been and I'm sure this will be short-term sell off.

[fuse]

The unvalidated fact about college kids playing basketball is they all appear to be shoe collectors.

I’m not a pro athlete, and would not pretend to be one (or an expert on shoes).
My athletic experiences have been all about fit, and comfort.
When I find a shoe I like for running or soccer, I stick with it, and maybe rotate a couple of brands/shoes.

Duke basketball players as a stereotype seem to be in a different pair of shoes every game- new Kyries, Jordans, or whatever new Nike in Duke colours is sent their way.

I’d hope each player would benefit from some sort of athletic gait analysis and shoe fitting that would match the player to an available Nike style, and then encourage that player to stick with that shoe instead of just randomly getting to pick from a pile of neat kicks in the right size.

[AnotherOldDukeFan]

Seems that they should pay Zion way more for taking a knee for their Shoe. More importantly, who is going to be doing the QC on Zion's shoes??

[KandG]

No doubt you are right here. Most of the athletic "shoes" (or sneakers as we used to call them in the old days) from the different companies are being made in the same factories with the same quality control and manufacturing processes. Yea, there may be some minor difference in materials and design and cosmetics but I don't believe there are huge differences in the shoes.

I'm actually amazed we don't see more shoes fall apart in college and pro games. My understanding is that, for the most part, all the different parts of the basketball and other athletic shoes are being held together by glue. It's not like they're being hand sewn any more.

Really couldn't disagree more with the bolded part of the quote above. Can't speak for shoes priced for the mass market of basketball players, runners etc like Monarchs or Hyperdunks or the various other brands mentioned (Asics, Saucony, etc), but there are definitely differences between the player branded shoes priced at $125 and up. A Kyrie Irving branded shoe or a Paul George shoe is made very differently and has a significantly different court feel from a Lebron or Harden or Curry. The players themselves (as easy as it is to be cynical about modern marketing and branding) are intimately involved in the design and feel of the shoes, and take notable pride in doing so.

As several have pointed out, the Paul George shoes Zion was wearing have notably thinner soles and less support than some of the other player branded shoes in the market. That doesn't mean they should have exploded on the court the way they did ... I still feel that was a bit of a fluke.

With that said, expensive shoes from Nike and Adidas with player labels aren't bulletproof. For example, the Air Jordan 28 was infamous for having a air bag component that popped under stress (a flaw that had to be corrected in subsequent Air Jordan releases). But these shoes go through a lot of testing and quality control when a player's name is attached. That doesn't make them perfect, and you can find niggling flaws in many of them, but they're not part of some cookie cutter assembly line that happens to slap different labels on largely interchangeable shoes.

[mkirsh]

Duke basketball players as a stereotype seem to be in a different pair of shoes every game- new Kyries, Jordans, or whatever new Nike in Duke colours is sent their way.



Minor quibble - I’m pretty sure Duke players never wear Jordans.

[Mak P]

ESPN reporting Zion been wearing the same shoes, the shoe might have worn down


While most NBA players will switch into a new shoe every three to five games -- and many star players wear a new pair every game -- Williamson appeared to be wearing the same pair throughout the year. Nike will examine if the shoe was simply worn down.

Shoe industry sources told ESPN's Nick DePaula that there is an internal consensus at Nike that the 6-foot-7, 285-pound Williamson is a force unlike any the company has seen before and will warrant his own custom-made shoes with added support and reinforcement once he's a pro. Custom shoes for college players are rare, except in cases of an extreme size or fit situation. For example, Nike made UNC Asheville's 7-foot-7 center Kenny George 12 custom pairs of a size 26 shoe.

However, all shoe brands will custom-make models for NBA players that require more support or other modifications. Joel Embiid, who wears Under Armour, requires added collar foam and padding for comfort, along with added reinforcement layers in the forefoot for lateral support.

Since Nike has a deal with a college team which is BS if you ask me, why aren't they supplying fresh shoes every 2 games or something. I'll sign with UA

[flyingdutchdevil]

ESPN reporting Zion been wearing the same shoes, Nike believe they might have worn down



Since Nike has a deal with a college team which is BS if you ask me, why aren't they supplying fresh shoes every 2 games or something. I'll sign with UA

Everyone gets paid in college! Well, except for the talent...

[Edouble]

ESPN reporting Zion been wearing the same shoes, Nike believe they might have worn down

Since Nike has a deal with a college team which is BS if you ask me, why aren't they supplying fresh shoes every 2 games or something

What manner of black magic keeps you from being a wanker? Color me astounded, sir.

[WVDUKEFAN]

What manner of black magic keeps you from being a wanker? Color me astounded, sir.

I thought the same thing. I’m jealous.

[moonpie23]

and the Onion ALWAYS delivers (https://sports.theonion.com/nike-fires-8-year-old-shoemaker-responsible-for-zion-wi-1832801206).....


this would be funny if it wasn't so sad...

[Reilly]

... I may be wrong but I'm not convinced that he didn't injure his knee BEFORE the force of his foot actually destroyed the side of the shoe ...

It seems to me Zion injured his knee ... and then the shoe happened to blow out. In other words, the shoe did not cause the injury. Curious what most folks believe ... it seems the closeness in time of the knee injury and the shoe blowing out has lead to lots of chatter about the shoe being the cause of all this (and it may well be; just doesn't seem that way to me).

[HaveFunExpectToWin]

In addition to the customization, there is the point you made about the logo. An Adidas shoe with a Nike logo would probably pass all necessary legal and contractual muster...even if a bit on the grey area side.


Perhaps they could drape an American flag over the shoe to hide the logo.

9104

[miramar]

Zion is not alone:

Aaron Gordon, Manu Ginobili, Tony Wroten, Andrew Bogut all in #Nike with the same issue #ZionWilliamson had during today's game.

Just scroll down and you will see the images: https://twitter.com/ModernNotoriety

I think it's time to go back to the old fashioned leather shoes.

[jv001]

It seems to me Zion injured his knee ... and then the shoe happened to blow out. In other words, the shoe did not cause the injury. Curious what most folks believe ... it seems the closeness in time of the knee injury and the shoe blowing out has lead to lots of chatter about the shoe being the cause of all this (and it may well be; just doesn't seem that way to me).

This was not the first time Zion had slipped on the court this season. Matter of fact, he was not the only one, but he's the player that's slipped the most. I don't know when the injury occurred but I'd been concerned before this injury. The worry I had was that it was the shoe that caused the slippage because we don't have hockey games in Cameron. GoDuke!

[CDu]

It seems to me Zion injured his knee ... and then the shoe happened to blow out. In other words, the shoe did not cause the injury. Curious what most folks believe ... it seems the closeness in time of the knee injury and the shoe blowing out has lead to lots of chatter about the shoe being the cause of all this (and it may well be; just doesn't seem that way to me).

I don’t share this opinion. I think the shoe tore apart, which caused him to do a split, which put undo stress on the knee and caused the injury.

[weezie]

This was not the first time Zion had slipped on the court this season. Matter of fact, he was not the only one, but he's the player that's slipped the most. I don't know when the injury occurred but I'd been concerned before this injury. The worry I had was that it was the shoe that caused the slippage because we don't have hockey games in Cameron. GoDuke!

So right! It's been seen in several games this season and not just Duke games.

[HereBeforeCoachK]

It seems to me Zion injured his knee ... and then the shoe happened to blow out. In other words, the shoe did not cause the injury. Curious what most folks believe ... it seems the closeness in time of the knee injury and the shoe blowing out has lead to lots of chatter about the shoe being the cause of all this (and it may well be; just doesn't seem that way to me).

With all due respect, what game were you watching?

[Bike4Fun]

It seems to me Zion injured his knee ... and then the shoe happened to blow out. In other words, the shoe did not cause the injury. Curious what most folks believe ... it seems the closeness in time of the knee injury and the shoe blowing out has lead to lots of chatter about the shoe being the cause of all this (and it may well be; just doesn't seem that way to me).

There are LOTS of big powerful men wearing athletic shoes in football and basketball, and this is a very rare event (failure during competition). So, I infer that statistically the most likely primary problem was a shoe failure from a defective shoe, since if it was just power I'd expect this to happen more often. The shoe failed in two places: the bottom outsole (rubber sole) and the top midsole where the shoe molds onto the outsole

I think the first thing that happened was the left foot started to slip (note, Zion seems to slip a lot). The slip could have started because of a small amount of moisture on the floor and it would have caused him to put pressure down on the floor from the left foot to stop the slide. Or, the outsole of the shoe could have started to fail on its own as the primary problem independent of moisture, and that could have started the left leg slide. As he planted his left leg harder to stop the slide, I think the rubber outsole started to separate faster which accelerated the slip motion of his foot inside the shoe that in turn caused the lateral force and failure of the midsole where the molding attached the shoe. As he split the left leg even farther to abduction, the right foot and lower leg planted to try to stop the slide. That created the medial force on the right knee and the injury.

***Note to self--why isn't the entire floor always wiped during time outs with those huge mops? 2 guys at each end could easily do it. It's not always a fall that gets the floor wet. The lane gets soaked during free throws.

[billy]

I don’t share this opinion. I think the shoe tore apart, which caused him to do a split, which put undo stress on the knee and caused the injury.

Agreed. He was moving toward his left with his weight mostly planted on a stable right foot. He attempted to quick-step towards the left and try to go back to the right, but when he planted his left foot the traction of the shoe "gripped" and the upper of the shoe separated from the sole, resulting in him having no stability on the left side. Without a stably planted foot on the left, his center of mass moving towards his left (inside of or medial to his right knee), and his right leg bearing most of his body weight, he placed increased strain on the medial side of his knee which resulted in the MCL sprain. Thankfully there was no inward rotation of the knee as he fell, and there was no grade III MCL tear, either of which could have resulted in an ACL tear.

[devildeac]

A couple interesting articles from the Raleigh N&O this am:

https://www.newsobserver.com/sports/spt-columns-blogs/luke-decock/article226605384.html

https://www.newsobserver.com/sports/article226573989.html

I've only scanned these briefly this AM so I don't have any "money quotes" but will read more thoroughly this afternoon when work is done for the week.

[bigperm13]

Main thing I got out of those articles was Zion has tiny feet for his size. He wears an 11. I wear a 14 for example and I'm half his size.

[Reilly]

...
I think the first thing that happened was the left foot started to slip (note, Zion seems to slip a lot). The slip could have started because of a small amount of moisture on the floor and it would have caused him to put pressure down on the floor from the left foot to stop the slide. Or, the outsole of the shoe could have started to fail on its own as the primary problem independent of moisture, and that could have started the left leg slide. As he planted his left leg harder to stop the slide, I think the rubber outsole started to separate faster which accelerated the slip motion of his foot inside the shoe that in turn caused the lateral force and failure of the midsole where the molding attached the shoe. As he split the left leg even farther to abduction, the right foot and lower leg planted to try to stop the slide. That created the medial force on the right knee and the injury ...

Here's the video (the 17 or 18 second mark seems key): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TmVkAQmPqS4

Maybe someone with skills could post a frame-by-frame.

At the 17 second mark, when Zion has both feet off the floor at the same time, his legs are at an odd angle, and that's before (as I'm seeing it) any slip or shoe malfunction.

[HereBeforeCoachK]

Here's the video (the 17 or 18 second mark seems key): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TmVkAQmPqS4

Maybe someone with skills could post a frame-by-frame.

At the 17 second mark, when Zion has both feet off the floor at the same time, his legs are at an odd angle, and that's before (as I'm seeing it) any slip or shoe malfunction.

The left shoe starts to unravel at the very instant it hits the floor.....which is when/where all Zion's weight is - the right knee reacted immediately, but it was a reaction.

[CDu]

Here's the video (the 17 or 18 second mark seems key): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TmVkAQmPqS4

Maybe someone with skills could post a frame-by-frame.

At the 17 second mark, when Zion has both feet off the floor at the same time, his legs are at an odd angle, and that's before (as I'm seeing it) any slip or shoe malfunction.

I think the shoe has already split at the 17 second mark. You just can't see it well because the camera is on the opposite side as the split. The split happens as soon as the foot puts the pressure down (as in, as he's planting). The shoe splits and his socked foot is then on the ground which causes the slide, which causes the knee strain.

Now, the shoe doesn't come up the leg until later, which is when I think people are attributing the shoe failure incorrectly. But that's well after the failure of the shoe.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Main thing I got out of those articles was Zion has tiny feet for his size. He wears an 11. I wear a 14 for example and I'm half his size.

You're half his size? You must be pretty dang big!

:)

[bigperm13]

You're half his size? You must be pretty dang big!

:)

Big but in different areas than Zion. My big has a concentration around my stomach and hips.

[JetpackJesus]

Main thing I got out of those articles was Zion has tiny feet for his size. He wears an 11. I wear a 14 for example and I'm half his size.

That is remarkable. I wear a 13, and I'm 6" shorter and 100lbs lighter. At least it's easy for him to shop for shoes (not that he'll ever have to do that again come next year), which I imagine is a rarity for most people his size.

[weezie]

Main thing I got out of those articles was Zion has tiny feet for his size. He wears an 11. I wear a 14 for example and I'm half his size.


You're half his size? You must be pretty dang big!

:)


Big but in different areas than Zion. My big has a concentration around my stomach and hips.

And big in the perm, right?

[wavedukefan70s]

Main thing I got out of those articles was Zion has tiny feet for his size. He wears an 11. I wear a 14 for example and I'm half his size.

I wonder if his feet not being as long with his weight if it isnt better for his bones.i would tend to think longer bones would flex more and stress more easily.

[Nugget]

That is remarkable. I wear a 13, and I'm 6" shorter and 100lbs lighter. At least it's easy for him to shop for shoes (not that he'll ever have to do that again come next year), which I imagine is a rarity for most people his size.

The N&O original story was wrong -- it's now been corrected; he wears a size 15.

[uh_no]

The N&O original story was wrong -- it's now been corrected; he wears a size 15.

That still sounds on the smaller size!