Zion Williamson Knee Vigil

[richardjackson199]

Worst Nightmare

[richardjackson199]

That shoe was tampered with

:mad:

[jipops]

It sucks that these threads are so inevitable.

Most importantly, for the sake of Zion’s career, I hope this is something he can recover from by draft night.

[rocketeli]

That shoe was tampered with

:mad:

It was sabotage! because it's a shoe, get it? It's French...I'll show myself out now.

[kcduke75]

That shoe was tampered with

:mad:

I wasn't a Nike was it? :confused:

[ndkjr70]

My disappointment is immeasurable and my year is ruined.

[Mabdul Doobakus]

Even if it's minor, is it enough to scare him into taking the rest of the year off? Like college football players who skip their bowl games.

The guy is probably gonna have $100 million endorsement deals thrown at him the second the NCAA season ends, albeit maybe not from Nike now. How much is playing in the NCAA tournament really worth to him?

[DevilFalcon]

Ugh! Let's hope for a sprain and not any torn ligaments. Him grabbing the back of the knee and not the inside (with the angle it had pressure on it) gives me hope. If he's out long term our title hopes go down considerably.

I still think we win tonight though. And if Zion is healthy soon, this will just make us better.

[wavedukefan70s]

I hope he isnt injured to bad .young mans a special player

[COYS]

Not exaggerating even a little. I don’t care what the score is tonight. I just want to see good news in this thread. Mostly for zion’s sake. Also for the team. And a little for the fans who should be getting to watch him on the biggest stage.

[Owen Meany]

In the absolute best case scenario, Williamson is missing a big game he really, really wanted to be a part of - and he and his family have had a huge scare. I don't care to even guess on worse scenarios. Hopefully, out of respect for Williamson we can avoid puns and jokes at least until more is known.

[ndkjr70]

Is duke a top-20 team without Zion?

[dukelifer]

Is duke a top-20 team without Zion?

So hard to know what this team will be- he is out tonight and the kids are kids and their heads are somewhere else. Not a night to judge what the team can be. But always hard to lose the best player in the country

[Mabdul Doobakus]

Some optimism from Twitter's top sports medicine doc.

https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/sports/sd-sp-pfd-zion-williamson-knnba-0220ee-injury-shoe-duke-north-carolina-20190220-story.html

[ndkjr70]

Some optimism from Twitter's top sports medicine doc.

https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/sports/sd-sp-pfd-zion-williamson-knnba-0220ee-injury-shoe-duke-north-carolina-20190220-story.html

He’s speculating the same amount that we are. This is nothing.

[Mabdul Doobakus]

He’s speculating the same amount that we are. This is nothing.

Well, he's an expert on the subject, and we're not. He's generally pretty accurate. He acknowledges it's not the same as physically examining the patient but he can examine the mechanism of injury and make an educated guess.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Impossible situation. Shoes? Floor?

[dudog84]

Is it too late to short Nike stock?

[J4Kop99]

It will be interesting to hear what updates are given after the game. If any.

-as for Zion, you just have to feel horrible for him. He is a phenomenal talent with as bright a future as possible but aside from that he seems like a genuinely good person. You just have to hope it's nothing too serious for him.

[wavedukefan70s]

Is duke a top-20 team without Zion?

Yes but they need prep time to adjust .and some bench play.have to get 20 points from bench.

[mattman91]

My disappointment is immeasurable and my year is ruined.

"Must spread comments" but thanks for the reviewbrah line. That actually cheered me up.

[WiJoe]

the nike greed catches up to you know who.

haven't seen a shoe fail so badly since an LA Gear blowout in early 90s in Cameron when marquette played there in preseason nit.

Get well soon, Zion.

[TruBlu]

I hope he isnt injured to bad .young mans a special player

And a special person.

Get well Zion!

[NYBri]

Special talent. Special person. Heal fully, Zion. 😎

[HereBeforeCoachK]

Is it too late to short Nike stock?

I'd do it in after hours trading......

[WiJoe]

Coach K, via DUKEmbb twitter: “We’re very concerned about Zion. It’s a mild knee sprain. We will know about length of time tomorrow. It’s stable. Obviously it has an impact. You lose the NPOY on the 1st play.”

[HereBeforeCoachK]

Worst Nightmare

DJ injury x ten

[arydolphin]

Coach K: “We’re very concerned about Zion. It’s a mild knee sprain. We will know about length of time tomorrow. It’s stable. Obviously it has an impact. You lose the NPOY on the 1st play.”

[arydolphin]

Coach K: “We’re very concerned about Zion. It’s a mild knee sprain. We will know about length of time tomorrow. It’s stable. Obviously it has an impact. You lose the NPOY on the 1st play.”

When he says "it's stable", that means it's not an ACL.

[dukelifer]

DJ injury x ten

We will hear a lot of pundits telling Zion to shut it down.

[mattman91]

We will hear a lot of pundits telling Zion to shut it down.

Maybe he should?

[ndkjr70]

We will hear a lot of pundits telling Zion to shut it down.

I adore Duke University. I adore Zion williamson. I adore the idea of a 6th title.

But if it’s anything other than the most minor of injuries, he should wait to just get picked first overall.

[Troublemaker]

Some optimism from Twitter's top sports medicine doc.

https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/sports/sd-sp-pfd-zion-williamson-knnba-0220ee-injury-shoe-duke-north-carolina-20190220-story.html

I came here to post that, too. I was staring at his twitter waiting for an update more than watching the game at times.


He’s speculating the same amount that we are. This is nothing.

He's well-known for making accurate calls on injuries during the NFL season. This is a different sport, and nothing is guaranteed, though, of course.


It will be interesting to hear what updates are given after the game. If any.

Not much until after the MRI tomorrow, probably.

[Troublemaker]

I sort of blame Bilas with the "Duke-UNC game always delivers" pregame hype. The basketball/injury gods were like, "Oh yeah?"

[ndkjr70]

I sort of blame Bilas with the "Duke-UNC game always delivers" pregame hype. The basketball/injury gods were like, "Oh yeah?"

I blame Bilas for everything.

I cannot stand him any more.

[WiJoe]

I blame Bilas for everything.

I cannot stand him any more.

what took so long?

[DBGoins]

What model shoe was Zion wearing? LeBrons?

Get whatever it was get it out of the locker room.

[Duke79UNLV77]

the nike greed catches up to you know who.

haven't seen a shoe fail so badly since an LA Gear blowout in early 90s in Cameron when marquette played there in preseason nit.

Get well soon, Zion.

I remember some school with an LA Gear contract started wearing other shoes while putting the LA Gear logos over them.

Zion and Kyrie combined 36 career seconds played against the cheats. Hope he’s back for round 2 and crushes the pirate.

[Steven43]

I adore Duke University. I adore Zion williamson. I adore the idea of a 6th title.

But if it’s anything other than the most minor of injuries, he should wait to just get picked first overall.

Disagree. As soon as he is fully healed he should return to game action. That’s what basketball players do. Zion, here’s hoping you get to show UNC exactly what you’re made of when we invade the Smith Center on March 9 looking for revenge.

[WiJoe]

I remember some school with an LA Gear contract started wearing other shoes while putting the LA Gear logos over them.

Zion and Kyrie combined 36 career seconds played against the cheats. Hope he’s back for round 2 and crushes the pirate.

who's the pirate? (anticipating funny response)

[Dukehk]

Zion was wearing the PG's.

However, can you really blame the shoe? It might have been faulty..but I imagine they need to start customising shoes for a 6'8 280 pounder from here on out. Normal shoes just wouldn't be able to take the impact his movements/weight make.

I guess we can be optimistic about K saying its a mild sprain? Which means there is actually a time line on his return, rather than him being out for the year. As someone mentioned above, the knee is stable so thankfully it wasn't an ACL tear. Really feeling happier now and if it means resting him till the next unc showdown or acc tournament, then im fine with that.

[wavedukefan70s]

I remember some school with an LA Gear contract started wearing other shoes while putting the LA Gear logos over them.

Zion and Kyrie combined 36 career seconds played against the cheats. Hope he’s back for round 2 and crushes the pirate.

Anything other than adidas our kids have to tape them up or black them out.

[WHOneedsSOX]

What model shoe was Zion wearing? LeBrons?

Get whatever it was get it out of the locker room.

Paul George's

[Fish80]

who's the pirate? (anticipating funny response)

Maybe Luke Maye? He’s got some kind of eyebrow disorder.

[WiJoe]

Maybe Luke Maye? He’s got some kind of eyebrow disorder.

I submit it's a LOT more than eyebrow

[DevilFalcon]

K says 'minor strain'. We'll know more tomorrow.

Read where an orthopedic surgeon did a video review and says it's minor and he should be back before ACC tournament --- for what that's worth.

[WiJoe]

K says 'minor strain'. We'll know more tomorrow.

Read where an orthopedic surgeon did a video review and says it's minor and he should be back before ACC tournament --- for what that's worth.

what it's worth is NOTHING. Only Duke will know.

[wavedukefan70s]

Zion was wearing the PG's.

However, can you really blame the shoe? It might have been faulty..but I imagine they need to start customising shoes for a 6'8 280 pounder from here on out. Normal shoes just wouldn't be able to take the impact his movements/weight make.

I guess we can be optimistic about K saying its a mild sprain? Which means there is actually a time line on his return, rather than him being out for the year. As someone mentioned above, the knee is stable so thankfully it wasn't an ACL tear. Really feeling happier now and if it means resting him till the next unc showdown or acc tournament, then im fine with that.

I realize not many people move like zion.but cleats have guys his size that are pretty athletic putting a lot of strain in them.those split on a seem or a glue point.id imagine besides the bottom surface most shoes would be attached the same for production and cost effectiveness.

[WiJoe]

cost effectiveness.

of course.

[ndkjr70]

Kentucky’s big man just got a similar diagnosis (mild sprain) and was given a 1-2 week timetable to return.

If that’s the case here I will weep — genuinely weep — tears of joy.

[Coballs]

This never would have happened if we were wearing Big Baller Brand.

[HereBeforeCoachK]

Zion was wearing the PG's.
However, can you really blame the shoe? It might have been faulty..but I imagine they need to start customising shoes for a 6'8 280 pounder from here on out. Normal shoes just wouldn't be able to take the impact his movements/weight make.
.

I think you have a point...but I'm not sure that takes away the blame from the shoe.

[dahntaysdawg]

Really hoping the Nike construction discussion takes over here. Or is that just me?

[HereBeforeCoachK]

Watching top ten on SC...I wonder if Zion injury will be Top Play. They're on 5 now

EDIT: No

[Dukehk]

Kentucky’s big man just got a similar diagnosis (mild sprain) and was given a 1-2 week timetable to return.

If that’s the case here I will weep — genuinely weep — tears of joy.

I would too. Then I would go and pray and thank the lord.

I was sick to my stomach the whole game. Didn't even watch it properly. Don't really care about the outcome. Win or lose, it wouldn't matter if Zion was out for the year.

Now that he is likely to be back sooner rather than later (hopefully!!!) we get our chance to spoil their senior night. Boy oh boy are we going to be fired up for that one.

Im optimistic because coach K said there WAS a timetable for him to be back, which they will know on Thursday. If it was bad, they would have said indefinitely out.

[KandG]

Zion was wearing the PG's.

However, can you really blame the shoe? It might have been faulty..but I imagine they need to start customising shoes for a 6'8 280 pounder from here on out. Normal shoes just wouldn't be able to take the impact his movements/weight make.



Think the injury was a bit of a freak one and the shoe can't be blamed too much, but I would tend to agree with those that were surprised he was wearing PGs (Paul George's signature line). I'm not Zion, but I know from direct experience that PG's shoes don't offer the support that Lebron's shoe line does (or even Harden's, though those are Adidas). I saw Swin Cash tweeted about this very issue (https://twitter.com/SwinCash/status/1098419026433327104) (that Lebron's shoe line is more designed for someone of Zion's body type with explosive movements).

Ultimately, if you can even find a way to blame the shoe, this isn't an issue with Nike the shoe company, but more the type of shoe he was wearing.

[simplyluvin]

For the medical pros out there, if it is a mild knee sprain (MCL), what treatment is there? Can Z play with a brace and come back sooner?

[FerryFor50]

For the medical pros out there, if it is a mild knee sprain (MCL), what treatment is there? Can Z play with a brace and come back sooner?

Not a professional, but for a sprain, you rest it. A sprain is a stretch or tear of a ligament. You don't want to risk making it worse by trying to play through it. He's out for at least a week or two.

[uh_no]

Not a professional, but for a sprain, you rest it. A sprain is a stretch or tear of a ligament. You don't want to risk making it worse by trying to play through it. He's out for at least a week or two.

he said "strain" though...is there a technical difference?

[ndkjr70]

he said "strain" though...is there a technical difference?

Without an MRI, chances are “strain” just means the doctors don’t see any obvious signs of a tear yet. Doesn’t mean there isn’t a tear (grade 2 strain is a minor tear, for example, and carries a 4-6 week recovery time).

It’s about the best news we could’ve gotten from K, but without an MRI it’s a little bit like saying “it looks like tomorrow will be a snow day”. Don’t be shocked if it rains and you go to work.

[billy]

For the medical pros out there, if it is a mild knee sprain (MCL), what treatment is there? Can Z play with a brace and come back sooner?

MCL is the best case scenario (if that's what it is) - it has a good blood supply and good healing potential. Even in the worst case scenario (a grade III sprain - where there's a complete tear of the ligament, i.e. where it's torn in two) it is very rare to need to reconstruct it surgically - maybe 2-3% likelihood. Yes, a player with a MCL could play in a brace and come back sooner (although this is not nearly as common in basketball as football). Pain is generally the rate limiting step. As soon as the athlete has minimal pain and can cut without pain or instability they can play. It would be somewhat similar in that regard to Tre Jones' AC separation.

[billy]

he said "strain" though...is there a technical difference?

Strain is an injury to a tendon, sprain is an injury to a ligament. Tendons attach muscle to bone. Ligaments attach/connect bone to bone.

[UNCfan]

Zion was wearing the PG's.

However, can you really blame the shoe? It might have been faulty..but I imagine they need to start customising shoes for a 6'8 280 pounder from here on out. Normal shoes just wouldn't be able to take the impact his movements/weight make..

His shoes are like those old balata golf balls. They need to get replaced at tv timeouts. I hope he is healthy and gets to play in Chapel Hill. A win is a win, but this one has an asterisk by it.

[Kedsy]

Is duke a top-20 team without Zion?

Is this a serious question?

[Ian]

Do we as college basketball fans really want to deal with this? At this point I'm completely torn on whether I want Zion to come back this year. I'm mean the part of me that's a Duke fan want him to be back desperately, but if he does I'm going to be holding my breath every time he goes up on one of his jumps fearing that he might land wrong and hurt his knee again. It's so unfair to him and his family if he gets hurt, and it's so unfair to us as Duke fans because the amount of guilt we would feel in that scenario for asking him to comeback would be hard to stomach.

I just want the whole thing to go away. The NBA needs to change this rule.

[HereBeforeCoachK]

Nike is getting absolutely slaughtered on Twitter.....lot of funny memes.......

[uh_no]

Is this a serious question?

Even if we suppose that duke would have to play EVERY game without knowing Zion wouldn't play, and thus not be able to game plan, duke played defense 19 points better than national average today, and offense 10 points worse. That put them at about a +9 AdjEM, or ~75. They would have had to be about 10-12 points better to be top 20. Do I think preparation is worth 10-12 points? I mean we did lose to cuse and then come back and beat UVA without our point guard?

I think the answer is probably "yes," but I don't think it's so cut and dry. I suppose we'll find out on saturday what kind of schemes K can draw up.

[Steven43]

This never would have happened if we were wearing Big Baller Brand.

Now THAT was a funny comment. Love it,

[Kedsy]

Even if we suppose that duke would have to play EVERY game without knowing Zion wouldn't play, and thus not be able to game plan, duke played defense 19 points better than national average today, and offense 10 points worse. That put them at about a +9 AdjEM, or ~75. They would have had to be about 10-12 points better to be top 20. Do I think preparation is worth 10-12 points? I mean we did lose to cuse and then come back and beat UVA without our point guard?

I think the answer is probably "yes," but I don't think it's so cut and dry. I suppose we'll find out on saturday what kind of schemes K can draw up.

I don't know how much stock I put in a one game sample. In the second half of the FSU game (also without Zion), we put up a 1.41 adjusted oRtg.

I mean, we still have the #1 and #2 2018 recruits (Zion was #4, amazingly), plus a PG who was #13, plus a junior center who was #11 out of high school. Plus another top 35 recruit (Javin) and two wings who are ACC caliber players. Sounds like at least a top 10 team to me.

[Ian]

I don't know how much stock I put in a one game sample. In the second half of the FSU game (also without Zion), we put up a 1.41 adjusted oRtg.

I mean, we still have the #1 and #2 2018 recruits (Zion was #4, amazingly), plus a PG who was #13, plus a junior center who was #11 out of high school. Plus another top 35 recruit (Javin) and two wings who are ACC caliber players. Sounds like at least a top 10 team to me.

None of them, with the exception of RJ ( who's just ok) can shoot work a lick. Zion is our only truly efficient offensive option. Without him our offense is going to struggle big time.

[DUKIE V(A)]

Is duke a top-20 team without Zion?

Do you think a team with Coach K, two consensus top five picks in the upcoming NBA draft, a defensive player of the year candidate (who also owns a historic assist-turnover ratio), and multiple other players with NBA potential is worthy of top 20 consideration?

[uh_no]

I don't know how much stock I put in a one game sample. In the second half of the FSU game (also without Zion), we put up a 1.41 adjusted oRtg.

I mean, we still have the #1 and #2 2018 recruits (Zion was #4, amazingly), plus a PG who was #13, plus a junior center who was #11 out of high school. Plus another top 35 recruit (Javin) and two wings who are ACC caliber players. Sounds like at least a top 10 team to me.

Given that we know we're a 122 team with zion, we can use that as a pretty reasonable upper bound WITHOUT zion...unless we think there is a chance we actually ARE a better offensive team without zion...which I don't think is a particularly reasonable assumption.

So the best we can say is that our intrinsic offense without zion is bounded between 122 and 94 (unless you think we're actually WORSE than that). Even at halfway, we're looking at 108, which is still borderline top 20 (something like 17-18 I think). It looks even worse if we take out the 3.5 point advantage we'd expect for having played at home.

So while we SHOULD be a top 20 team, we should have been in 2016 and 2017 as well, but were not far off.

ACC caliber doesn't mean much, IMO, when all those caliber players seem to be so ineffective on the offensive end. Fact of the matter is we had exactly 2 guys who contributed scoring in the halfcourt, and UNC could dedicate pretty much everything to stopping those two (and they still combined for 60 points...just nuts). IMO those role players simply don't contribute enough offense to offset those 2 top scorers to say with any confidence that we would definitely be top 20 without zion. Eventually, the scoring needs to come from somewhere...and tonight, it didn't.

[cptnflash]

I don't know how much stock I put in a one game sample. In the second half of the FSU game (also without Zion), we put up a 1.41 adjusted oRtg.

I mean, we still have the #1 and #2 2018 recruits (Zion was #4, amazingly), plus a PG who was #13, plus a junior center who was #11 out of high school. Plus another top 35 recruit (Javin) and two wings who are ACC caliber players. Sounds like at least a top 10 team to me.

Keds - No one cares right now. Please stop copy/pasting/disagreeing for one night. The loss of Zion in the first 33 seconds obviously completely altered tonight's game, and until we know how severe his injury is, we're all in a state of shock. Let it go man.

[uh_no]

Keds - No one cares right now. Please stop copy/pasting/disagreeing for one night. The loss of Zion in the first 33 seconds obviously completely altered tonight's game, and until we know how severe his injury is, we're all in a state of shock. Let it go man.

I chortled...not because I agree...but because if there's one person who is decidedly LESS affected by the kinds of emotions you ascribe to all of, it's Kedsy.

And if there's one person who is generating massive amounts of unique content here as opposed to the "copy/pasta" cliches often parroted, it's Kedsy.

If you can't deal with someone posting stats due to your emotional state, then perhaps you should take a breather from DBR, let alone disparage said posts.

[Steven43]

I chortled...not because I agree...but because if there's one person who is decidedly LESS affected by the kinds of emotions you ascribe to all of, it's Kedsy.

And if there's one person who is generating massive amounts of unique content here as opposed to the "copy/pasta" cliches often parroted, it's Kedsy.

If you can't deal with someone posting stats due to your emotional state, then perhaps you should take a breather from DBR, let alone disparage said posts.

I don’t see Kedsy’s comments as being particularly controversial or something that should have elicited a strong emotional response. Now, I’m not big on assigning credit, or lack thereof, to players simply based on high school ranking, as said rankings are quite regularly shown to be off-base. But, I do see where he’s coming from and on the surface it appears to have merit.
Oh, and I would like to hear more about those copy/pasta cliches to which you alluded.

[Dukehk]

His shoes are like those old balata golf balls. They need to get replaced at tv timeouts. I hope he is healthy and gets to play in Chapel Hill. A win is a win, but this one has an asterisk by it.

Don't even think there should be an asterisk. As you said, a win is a win. We play 12 guys. Not one. You guys won fair and square.

I just hope we have our full team back for the rematch! That will be the matchup everyone wants to watch.

[hsheffield]

wearing my Zion tee shirt today in solidarity

[bundabergdevil]

Nike issues statement (https://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/zion-williamson-injury-nike-issues-statement-after-duke-freshman-blows-out-shoe-sprains-knee-vs-unc/) and their shares are down in pre-market trading (https://www.thestreet.com/investing/stocks/nike-shares-dip-after-duke-star-zion-williamson-injures-knee-wearing-pg-2-5-shoe-14873371) with commentary tying to Zion's shoe explosion.

I thought the latter was a bit silly but considering the mocking memes and social viralit-y of the moment, there's legitimate damage being done to Nike's brand that could translate to sales dips for the PG 2.5 shoes...

[Bluegrassdevil1]

I find it quite bizarre that Williamson makes three (presumed) consecutive Duke number one picks who have suffered leg injuries during their freshman seasons.

Brand came back. As did Irving. So, I suppose hope should remain for Williamson as well.

[Troublemaker]

Even if we suppose that duke would have to play EVERY game without knowing Zion wouldn't play, and thus not be able to game plan, duke played defense 19 points better than national average today, and offense 10 points worse. That put them at about a +9 AdjEM, or ~75. They would have had to be about 10-12 points better to be top 20. Do I think preparation is worth 10-12 points? I mean we did lose to cuse and then come back and beat UVA without our point guard?

I think the answer is probably "yes," but I don't think it's so cut and dry. I suppose we'll find out on saturday what kind of schemes K can draw up.


Given that we know we're a 122 team with zion, we can use that as a pretty reasonable upper bound WITHOUT zion...unless we think there is a chance we actually ARE a better offensive team without zion...which I don't think is a particularly reasonable assumption.

So the best we can say is that our intrinsic offense without zion is bounded between 122 and 94 (unless you think we're actually WORSE than that). Even at halfway, we're looking at 108, which is still borderline top 20 (something like 17-18 I think). It looks even worse if we take out the 3.5 point advantage we'd expect for having played at home.

So while we SHOULD be a top 20 team, we should have been in 2016 and 2017 as well, but were not far off.

What if additionally, Duke just underperformed tonight? It seems really unlikely to me that if we played this game 1,000 times without Zion, UNC would average a 16-pt victory. So, we don't need gameplanning to be worth 16 points or whatever. We need Duke to have underperformed by a certain amount of points and (separately) time to gameplan to be worth a certain amount of points.



ACC caliber doesn't mean much, IMO, when all those caliber players seem to be so ineffective on the offensive end. Fact of the matter is we had exactly 2 guys who contributed scoring in the halfcourt, and UNC could dedicate pretty much everything to stopping those two (and they still combined for 60 points...just nuts). IMO those role players simply don't contribute enough offense to offset those 2 top scorers to say with any confidence that we would definitely be top 20 without zion. Eventually, the scoring needs to come from somewhere...and tonight, it didn't.

This analysis, I like much better. I would agree we need to get Tre scoring more as the (now) 3rd option, and we probably need Jack or Alex to hit threes. Both seem doable to me.


Do we as college basketball fans really want to deal with this? At this point I'm completely torn on whether I want Zion to come back this year. I'm mean the part of me that's a Duke fan want him to be back desperately, but if he does I'm going to be holding my breath every time he goes up on one of his jumps fearing that he might land wrong and hurt his knee again. It's so unfair to him and his family if he gets hurt, and it's so unfair to us as Duke fans because the amount of guilt we would feel in that scenario for asking him to comeback would be hard to stomach.

I just want the whole thing to go away. The NBA needs to change this rule.

I wouldn't speak for all Duke fans because I don't think you're even close to representing the majority here. A small percentage of Duke fans, sure, but personally I think your post is weird. Do you not live in fear when RJ and Cam play then? They are worth very conservatively at least 8 million (the guarantee for the #7 pick in the draft), or is there a certain earnings threshold that needs to be crossed before you feel bad? Tre Jones is worth at least $3 million and like Zion has already gotten injured this season -- do you fear for him? And if Jack White got hurt, wouldn't that suck, too? Or does one need to be a surefire NBA pro for you to feel bad? (Additionally, it's just really unlikely for Zion to suffer an injury that would prevent him from being a rich man, and I'm not talking about insurance.)

[BD80]

If I'm Nike, I take this opportunity to make an 8 figure CONFIDENTIAL settlement with Zion (if he finishes out the season in Nike shoes).

Repairs damage to the Nike brand, and gives Zion the security he needs to finish the season.

This is NOT an endorsement deal that would impact his eligibility, but a personal injury settlement.

Also, I would "develop" a special Nike shoe for Zion. Which, in a few months (after wide-spread TV coverage) he could endorse for serious $.

How's that for lemonade from lemons?

[dukelifer]

What if additionally, Duke just underperformed tonight? It seems really unlikely to me that if we played this game 1,000 times without Zion, UNC would average a 16-pt victory. So, we don't need gameplanning to be worth 16 points or whatever. We need Duke to have underperformed by a certain amount of points and (separately) time to gameplan to be worth a certain amount of points.



This analysis, I like much better. I would agree we need to get Tre scoring more as the (now) 3rd option, and we probably need Jack or Alex to hit threes. Both seem doable to me.



I wouldn't speak for all Duke fans because I don't think you're even close to representing the majority here. A small percentage of Duke fans, sure, but personally I think your post is weird. Do you not live in fear when RJ and Cam play then? They are worth very conservatively at least 8 million (the guarantee for the #7 pick in the draft), or is there a certain earnings threshold that needs to be crossed before you feel bad? Tre Jones is worth at least $3 million and like Zion has already gotten injured this season -- do you fear for him? And if Jack White got hurt, wouldn't that suck, too? Or does one need to be a surefire NBA pro for you to feel bad? (Additionally, it's just really unlikely for Zion to suffer an injury that would prevent him from being a rich man, and I'm not talking about insurance.)

K will have some coaching to do. Duke needs another scorer. If Jack can overcome the yips - he would be the best option because he is a pretty solid rebounder and defender. The season- assuming Zion returns by the ACC tourney- hinges on finding another shooter. Joey Baker is not walking through that door - or is he ??

[HereBeforeCoachK]

If I'm Nike, I take this opportunity to make an 8 figure CONFIDENTIAL settlement with Zion (if he finishes out the season in Nike shoes).

Repairs damage to the Nike brand, and gives Zion the security he needs to finish the season.

This is NOT an endorsement deal that would impact his eligibility, but a personal injury settlement.

Also, I would "develop" a special Nike shoe for Zion. Which, in a few months (after wide-spread TV coverage) he could endorse for serious $.

How's that for lemonade from lemons?

That's pretty good squeezing, and an interesting comment. And speaking of lemons....to lemonade....this will probably double what his shoe endorsement contract will be in the NBA to start.

[BeachBlueDevil]

I hope Zion gets well and is back sooner than later.

That said, this injury to Zion will be beneficial to the team until he (hopefully) comes back. They can learn how to play without Zion in the lineup, much like they did when they lost Tre. This will only make the team stronger moving forward.

[ndkjr70]

I hope Zion gets well and is back sooner than later.

That said, this injury to Zion will be beneficial to the team until he (hopefully) comes back. They can learn how to play without Zion in the lineup, much like they did when they lost Tre. This will only make the team stronger moving forward.

Being a 1-seed is far more beneficial to this team than “learning how to play” without a guy who’ll (hopefully) be in the lineup come March.

[HereBeforeCoachK]

Being a 1-seed is far more beneficial to this team than “learning how to play” without a guy who’ll (hopefully) be in the lineup come March.

Right, and of course, regardless of how well they "learn to play" without Zion.....the Natty is off the table without him.

[hibby91]

I feel like I've seen Zion turn his back to the goal and slip and fall a lot this year. Is it just me? Maybe the shoe issue, although more severe, isn't a one time occurrence.

[Edouble]

I hope Zion gets well and is back sooner than later.

That said, this injury to Zion will be beneficial to the team until he (hopefully) comes back. They can learn how to play without Zion in the lineup, much like they did when they lost Tre. This will only make the team stronger moving forward.

Nope. It's February 21st.

Time to tighten the last few bolts on the team chemistry, get our offense/defense primed for March, and hold court on our #1 overall seed. Not the time of year to glean any benefits from losing our best player.

[Rich]

K will have some coaching to do. Duke needs another scorer. If Jack can overcome the yips - he would be the best option because he is a pretty solid rebounder and defender. The season- assuming Zion returns by the ACC tourney- hinges on finding another shooter. Joey Baker is not walking through that door - or is he ??

Unfortunately, I think fixing Jack's head games are much more of a challenge than a physical issue. I don't see that happening this season. He seems like he's just not there. He's defeated, at least with respect to shooting. He doesn't think he can make his shots anymore. He still has value for his rebounding and toughness, but I don't think we can rely on Jack's offense at this point.

[HereBeforeCoachK]

I feel like I've seen Zion turn his back to the goal and slip and fall a lot this year. Is it just me? Maybe the shoe issue, although more severe, isn't a one time occurrence.

Brings a whole lot of questions like this, none of which Nike wants to see aired in public. Does the shoe, in addition to not holding up to the pressure, have a faulty tread as well? And oh, don't let this get around, but Mano Ginobli had this same thing happen....in a Nike....a few years back. He didn't get injured, it was just another ho hum NBA regular season game....but it looked like the same failure on the shoe....a Nike, on the left foot.

[budwom]

If I'm Nike, I take this opportunity to make an 8 figure CONFIDENTIAL settlement with Zion (if he finishes out the season in Nike shoes).

Repairs damage to the Nike brand, and gives Zion the security he needs to finish the season.

This is NOT an endorsement deal that would impact his eligibility, but a personal injury settlement.

Also, I would "develop" a special Nike shoe for Zion. Which, in a few months (after wide-spread TV coverage) he could endorse for serious $.

How's that for lemonade from lemons?

Call it what you want, but I don't think that would fly vis a vis eligibility....much better to wait until he's done at Duke before doing anything...at that point it would be a splendid idea.

[J4Kop99]

Jay Williams was up early this morning "advocating" for Zion to sit out the rest of the year...

[simplyluvin]

Jay Williams was up early this morning "advocating" for Zion to sit out the rest of the year...

Yeah, that was pretty discouraging. He was talking up the business side of things, but come on. I like Boozer’s POV much more. Zion will make millions regardless. You only play college ball at Duke under the GOAT once.

[Edouble]

Jay Williams was up early this morning "advocating" for Zion to sit out the rest of the year...

Tired of this guy. He doesn't have a leg to stand on as far as injury prevention and management.

[jv001]

I find it quite bizarre that Williamson makes three (presumed) consecutive Duke number one picks who have suffered leg injuries during their freshman seasons.

Brand came back. As did Irving. So, I suppose hope should remain for Williamson as well.

One of the first things I thought about after the game. What might have been in Kyrie's case. GoDuke!

[jv001]

Jay Williams was up early this morning "advocating" for Zion to sit out the rest of the year...

I guess Jay should tell Zion not to ride motorcycles either. GoDuke!

[ndkjr70]

Jay Williams advising a young player on injury prevention? Is Vitale going to chime in with how to prevent male pattern hair loss? Perhaps a few former Heels will also give advice on studying for an upcoming college exam?

[HereBeforeCoachK]

Jay Williams was up early this morning "advocating" for Zion to sit out the rest of the year...

Because nothing says "durable enough for 82 game regular season plus playoffs each year in the NBA" like not making it through one 35-40 game college season...

Zion has a decision to make, but it's not so one sided or simple...as Evil K-Williams or Pippen think. And IMO, regardless of what happens, Zion will make many millions from basketball even if he never were to play again...he's still looking at a killer shoe endorsement one way or another...think about how powerful his message would be even if he did have to stop (which is not the case, just speaking hypothetically here). He might also take J Will's job. Jay is still in effect getting paid (by ESPN) for playing for K and Duke. Both Jays now that you mention it.

[uh_no]

Jay Williams advising a young player on injury prevention? Is Vitale going to chime in with how to prevent male pattern hair loss? Perhaps a few former Heels will also give advice on studying for an upcoming college exam?

well... Seth Greenberg has a segment on who's going to make the tournament... do everything's on the table

[Frybay]

Is it a bad shoe, is it lack of coaching where you wear the starters out and do not ever develop a bench or have we ever won when a president or ex president has been at the game?

I can see a billion dollar endorsement advertisement coming out right after Zion declares!
Coach K is a great coach and man to man has been the best in years but zone defense would have beat the cheaters last night! Bench could play great also if they got some time on floor letting the starters rest!
Clinton Lost! Obama Lost! Can't remember other ones

[bigperm13]

Is it a bad shoe, is it lack of coaching where you wear the starters out and do not ever develop a bench or have we ever won when a president or ex president has been at the game?

I can see a billion dollar endorsement advertisement coming out right after Zion declares!
Coach K is a great coach and man to man has been the best in years but zone defense would have beat the cheaters last night! Bench could play great also if they got some time on floor letting the starters rest!
Clinton Lost! Obama Lost! Can't remember other ones

Yuck on all of that.

[J4Kop99]

Tired of this guy. He doesn't have a leg to stand on as far as injury prevention and management.

Nicely done.


I guess Jay should tell Zion not to ride motorcycles either. GoDuke!

Jay providing us with fresh low hanging fruit. But when you sell your soul to ESPN, you're forced to comment on things like this.


Because nothing says "durable enough for 82 game regular season plus playoffs each year in the NBA" like not making it through one 35-40 game college season...

Zion has a decision to make, but it's not so one sided or simple...as Evil K-Williams or Pippen think. And IMO, regardless of what happens, Zion will make many millions from basketball even if he never were to play again...he's still looking at a killer shoe endorsement one way or another...think about how powerful his message would be even if he did have to stop (which is not the case, just speaking hypothetically here). He might also take J Will's job. Jay is still in effect getting paid (by ESPN) for playing for K and Duke. Both Jays now that you mention it.

Jay Williams might actually be the best example as to why Zion should come back and play if he is able to.


Yeah, that was pretty discouraging. He was talking up the business side of things, but come on. I like Boozer’s POV much more. Zion will make millions regardless. You only play college ball at Duke under the GOAT once.

I met Boozer a few times during his brief stint with the Lakers. Such a great guy. He's spot on here.

[UrinalCake]

Jay Williams was up early this morning "advocating" for Zion to sit out the rest of the year...

This is surprising; Williams himself has talked about what a great decision it was for him to return for his junior year because he got his degree and made new connections, which opened the door for him to start a broadcasting career after his accident. He said that had he left for the NBA after his sophomore year and then had the accident, he would have had nothing to fall back on.

Zion's situation isn't exactly the same, but Williams's response is still a bit of a surprise.

[golfinesquire]

Call it what you want, but I don't think that would fly vis a vis eligibility...much better to wait until he's done at Duke before doing anything...at that point it would be a splendid idea.

How dies a confidential settlement repair anything? You need to advertise the deal and that kills the confidentiality.

[HereBeforeCoachK]

How dies a confidential settlement repair anything? You need to advertise the deal and that kills the confidentiality.

I believe the other poster was saying confidential - now - with the ability to go public once his playing days in college are over. Not sure....

[Matches]

Is it a bad shoe, is it lack of coaching where you wear the starters out and do not ever develop a bench or have we ever won when a president or ex president has been at the game?



He got hurt literally less than a minute into the game. Kind of doubt fatigue was an issue.

[cruxer]

We should not pretend that sitting out the rest of the season is not a serious option that Zion should consider. I'm a diehard Duke fan, but I wouldn't blame him one bit if that's the direction he goes. If he asked me for my advice, I'd probably tell him to sit. Of course, most competitors want to compete, especially with a team that has the kind of chemistry this team has. I suspect Zion will be back, but it is certainly not the best business decision.

No hard feelings for Jay to tell the truth about this analysis. It's his job! ESPN pays him lotsa dough to be an honest broker, not to be a Duke fan.

[golfinesquire]

How dies a confidential settlement repair anything? You need to advertise the deal and that kills the confidentiality.

By that time, either the damage has long been done or everyone has moved on. Timing is everything and waiting does Nike no good. But if I were them, I would not do anything. This could be an admission of liability on their part and that opens doors to other injuries. And then I am not so sure about the NCAA eligibility issue either.

[jv001]

We should not pretend that sitting out the rest of the season is not a serious option that Zion should consider. I'm a diehard Duke fan, but I wouldn't blame him one bit if that's the direction he goes. If he asked me for my advice, I'd probably tell him to sit. Of course, most competitors want to compete, especially with a team that has the kind of chemistry this team has. I suspect Zion will be back, but it is certainly not the best business decision.

No hard feelings for Jay to tell the truth about this analysis. It's his job! ESPN pays him lotsa dough to be an honest broker, not to be a Duke fan.

When and if this happens, I'll have to think hard about not watching college basketball until the ON-AND-DONE era is over. I would always be worried about the next recruit that will do it again. I root for all Duke players but I sure miss the 3 and 4 year player with experience. That's for another thread. I'll stop there. GoDuke!

[HereBeforeCoachK]

We should not pretend that sitting out the rest of the season is not a serious option that Zion should consider. I'm a diehard Duke fan, but I wouldn't blame him one bit if that's the direction he goes. If he asked me for my advice, I'd probably tell him to sit. Of course, most competitors want to compete, especially with a team that has the kind of chemistry this team has. I suspect Zion will be back, but it is certainly not the best business decision.

No hard feelings for Jay to tell the truth about this analysis. It's his job! ESPN pays him lotsa dough to be an honest broker, not to be a Duke fan.

I don't think it's hard feelings....I think it's rich irony. Jay has talked about how great his decision to come back for another year to Duke was a great career decision for him. I remember an SI Cover featuring him after that decision. Thus the irony he's advising Zion to do the opposite of what he admitted worked for him. The analogy is not perfect...but it's useful. (and BTW, Jay is still being paid for playing at Duke...by ESPN)

[Mabdul Doobakus]

Zion's case is more compelling to sit than others have been in the past. He stands to make so much endorsement money the second he goes pro, probably more than anyone coming out of college basketball ever.

His life is fundamentally altered if he gets seriously hurt. He could be set for life before ever playing an NBA game. Maybe finishing out his college year is worth the risk to him, but only he can decide that. Sitting here in my late 30's, I'm pretty sure my choice would be to sit it out. But an 18 year old might have a different perspective.

[HereBeforeCoachK]

Zion's case is more compelling to sit than others have been in the past. He stands to make so much endorsement money the second he goes pro, probably more than anyone coming out of college basketball ever.

His life is fundamentally altered if he gets seriously hurt. He could be set for life before ever playing an NBA game. Maybe finishing out his college year is worth the risk to him, but only he can decide that. Sitting here in my late 30's, I'm pretty sure my choice would be to sit it out. But an 18 year old might have a different perspective.

I have a slightly different take.

He's set for life either way now. Obviously, better off with a long healthy NBA career.....but he is that rare person who is bigger than the universe he is in. If he had suffered a Lawrence Taylor on Joe Theisman injury last night, I think it's very safe to say he would get a huge ESPN or Fox Sports contract, and imagine the money he'd be worth to Nike to save their image, or to a competitor to knock Nike off. His value in this regard skyrocketed last night, regardless of what else happens. He would be the first non player to sign a major shoe deal.

He's an incredible talent, an incredible person with amazing charisma - he's bigger than life. He had that coming into Duke, and the combo of Duke and Zion have only magnified that.

[Reddevil]

I look forward to a pair of the Zion Pivot by Nike. I imagine they will offer him a mega deal to turn this in their favor. If not, someone else will. What? Too soon? This is a depressing day with the Zion and Boeheim real world stuff. (not comparing the two of course - just saying the past 12 hours have been tough for various reasons) We need some relief.

[HereBeforeCoachK]

I look forward to a pair of the Zion Pivot by Nike. I imagine they will offer him a mega deal to turn this in their favor. If not, someone else will. What? Too soon? This is a depressing day with the Zion and Boeheim real world stuff. (not comparing the two of course - just saying the past 12 hours have been tough for various reasons) We need some relief.

MEGA SPORKS. The "Zion Pivot" by Nike. Biggest shoe contract ever probably. The only problem with that name is that I didn't come up with it first. :cool:

And yeah, the Bad Real World Karma Bowl with Duke at Cuse coming up....prayers for all involved in the accident.

[MartyClark]

By that time, either the damage has long been done or everyone has moved on. Timing is everything and waiting does Nike no good. But if I were them, I would not do anything. This could be an admission of liability on their part and that opens doors to other injuries. And then I am not so sure about the NCAA eligibility issue either.

The confidential 8 figure settlement hypothesis would present some interesting legal and NCAA issues. Personal injury settlement are generally not taxable under section 105 of the Internal Revenue Code. An 8 figure settlement would be so disproportionate to the damages from this, hopefully, minor, injury that the I.R.S. could determine that the bulk of the settlement is not for the injury but for other business considerations. Under that scenario, much of the settlement would be taxable.
Dennis Rodman settled a personal injury case against him, where he kicked the camera man while playing for the Bulls. I'm not sure the camera man really had any injury but Rodman paid $200,000 or so for a confidential settlement. The I.R.S. argued that much of the settlement was for the confidentiality provision, not the injury. This had tax consequences for the camera man.

This hypothetical settlement would also, I think, draw NCAA scrutiny because it could be argued that the settlement was a form of compensation or income to Zion that violated NCAA rules.

I'm probably burying the lede here, but I think the large confidential settlement scenario is unlikely.

[Mabdul Doobakus]

I have a slightly different take.

He's set for life either way now. Obviously, better off with a long healthy NBA career....but he is that rare person who is bigger than the universe he is in. If he had suffered a Lawrence Taylor on Joe Theisman injury last night, I think it's very safe to say he would get a huge ESPN or Fox Sports contract, and imagine the money he'd be worth to Nike to save their image, or to a competitor to knock Nike off. His value in this regard skyrocketed last night, regardless of what else happens. He would be the first non player to sign a major shoe deal.

He's an incredible talent, an incredible person with amazing charisma - he's bigger than life. He had that coming into Duke, and the combo of Duke and Zion have only magnified that.

You're probably right that he's "set for life" either way. He'll be fine. But still...there's a tremendous difference in magnitude between what you're talking about (if he were to go full Theisman) and what he could expect if he just makes it to the pros as a #1 pick, let alone play a productive NBA career. Is the chance at an NCAA title worth risking all that?

Selfishly, I want him to play. But I still don't think it's what's best for him. Good for all of us that it doesn't matter what I think.

[Ian]

When and if this happens, I'll have to think hard about not watching college basketball until the ON-AND-DONE era is over. I would always be worried about the next recruit that will do it again. I root for all Duke players but I sure miss the 3 and 4 year player with experience. That's for another thread. I'll stop there. GoDuke!

That's where I'm at too. I don't want to have to constantly deal with the conflict between wanting what's best for the team and what's best for the player. The system should be set up where those 2 things go hand in hand, not where one is at conflict with the other.

[HereBeforeCoachK]

You're probably right that he's "set for life" either way. He'll be fine. But still...there's a tremendous difference in magnitude between what you're talking about (if he were to go full Theisman) and what he could expect if he just makes it to the pros as a #1 pick, let alone play a productive NBA career. Is the chance at an NCAA title worth risking all that?

Selfishly, I want him to play. But I still don't think it's what's best for him. Good for all of us that it doesn't matter what I think.

I think it's what's best for him - to play more at Duke - because the odds of going "full Theisman" are infinitesimal. Remember, this is, so far, a "mild sprain" and is only a big deal because A: it's Zion B: it blew the shoe C: biggest TV audience of the college hoops season. There's probably ten injuries a week this severe or worse in college ball.

If the odds of going Full Theisman were significant, I'd agree with you 100%.
If he wouldn't have significant life changing money either way, I'd agree with you 75%.
If he wasn't a kid seriously enjoying this phase of his life, understanding the memories he's creating, I'd agree with you 50%.

At the end of the day (or life), is it more satisfying to have zillions and a Title Run memory with your buds.....or to have mega zillions without that memory. At his level, more money is just a figure on a computer terminal.

Due to the three factors above, I would make the case it is in his best interest to return. Is that self serving to me? Yes, but it's still alid. But I would never hold it against him if he were to disagree.

[dukelifer]

Zion's case is more compelling to sit than others have been in the past. He stands to make so much endorsement money the second he goes pro, probably more than anyone coming out of college basketball ever.

His life is fundamentally altered if he gets seriously hurt. He could be set for life before ever playing an NBA game. Maybe finishing out his college year is worth the risk to him, but only he can decide that. Sitting here in my late 30's, I'm pretty sure my choice would be to sit it out. But an 18 year old might have a different perspective.

I think it will all depend on what he is feeling. If he is not 100 percent- he may not risk it. If he feels fine- normal- my guess is he will want to play- simply to prove to himself he is back.

[cruxer]

I don't think it's hard feelings...I think it's rich irony. Jay has talked about how great his decision to come back for another year to Duke was a great career decision for him. I remember an SI Cover featuring him after that decision. Thus the irony he's advising Zion to do the opposite of what he admitted worked for him. The analogy is not perfect...but it's useful. (and BTW, Jay is still being paid for playing at Duke...by ESPN)

Jay's perspective is likely informed by mistakes he made. He lost a career doing stupid stuff and certainly had education to move on to his next career, but thanks to the Bulls not really enforcing the contract, he was financially set either way. As far as being paid for playing at Duke: most professionals are hired based on a set of credentials--a degree, experience, a strong reference--that convey a level of expertise. I'm not sure how that impacts how you then do the job you were hired to do.

[BD80]

The confidential 8 figure settlement hypothesis would present some interesting legal and NCAA issues. Personal injury settlement are generally not taxable under section 105 of the Internal Revenue Code. An 8 figure settlement would be so disproportionate to the damages from this, hopefully, minor, injury that the I.R.S. could determine that the bulk of the settlement is not for the injury but for other business considerations. Under that scenario, much of the settlement would be taxable.
Dennis Rodman settled a personal injury case against him, where he kicked the camera man while playing for the Bulls. I'm not sure the camera man really had any injury but Rodman paid $200,000 or so for a confidential settlement. The I.R.S. argued that much of the settlement was for the confidentiality provision, not the injury. This had tax consequences for the camera man.

This hypothetical settlement would also, I think, draw NCAA scrutiny because it could be argued that the settlement was a form of compensation or income to Zion that violated NCAA rules.

I'm probably burying the lede here, but I think the large confidential settlement scenario is unlikely.

Herein lies the rub …

The NCAA has GREAT interest in looking past this incident, as it involves one of its premier entertainers and a most lucrative advertiser (revenue source).

The confidentiality would extend to the exact terms of the agreement, with the parties agreeing to make public that which most benefits the parties mutually: ie, the admission that the shoe was not at fault (nor the floor) - which wouldn't be binding in a subsequent case involving another player, but which achieves Nike's PR purpose. Not sure how this forfeiture of rights by Zion would be evaluated under the tax code.

Keeping Zion in the tournament is easily worth millions to the NCAA, particularly when you consider the precedent with future OADs. If Zion sits from here out, that could easily start a trend that would impact the quality of NCAA talent, before the NCAA has a chance to adjust (as when the OAD rule is changed). Further, the NCAA does not want a precedent of players suing sponsoring equipment companies. I imagine any agreement could be submitted for review by the NCAA for approval with respect to eligibility issues.

[freshmanjs]

I don’t at all understand why people think a minor injury changes the calculus so much. They knew all along that a minor injury at some point in the season was likely.

[uh_no]

fwiw:


I was just talking to him a bit, I hope he’s going to be okay, We don’t really know where things are right now, but I think he’ll be back.

[devildeac]

I don’t at all understand why people think a minor injury changes the calculus so much. They knew all along that a minor injury at some point in the season was likely.

A minor injury is anything that happens to the cheats/Hoos/Deacs/etc. A major injury is anything that occurs to one of our players. :rolleyes:;)

[MCFinARL]

I don't think it's hard feelings...I think it's rich irony. Jay has talked about how great his decision to come back for another year to Duke was a great career decision for him. I remember an SI Cover featuring him after that decision. Thus the irony he's advising Zion to do the opposite of what he admitted worked for him. The analogy is not perfect...but it's useful. (and BTW, Jay is still being paid for playing at Duke...by ESPN)


Jay's perspective is likely informed by mistakes he made. He lost a career doing stupid stuff and certainly had education to move on to his next career, but thanks to the Bulls not really enforcing the contract, he was financially set either way. As far as being paid for playing at Duke: most professionals are hired based on a set of credentials--a degree, experience, a strong reference--that convey a level of expertise. I'm not sure how that impacts how you then do the job you were hired to do.

What Jay has talked about, though, is different--it was a decision to come back for a third season and at the same time finish his college degree. After his motorcycle accident destroyed his NBA career, that proved to be an excellent decision.

Zion, on the other hand, would be making a decision to come back for a few weeks before leaving after one year of college--hopefully a valuable and perspective-broadening experience, but not the same as getting a degree. And he will leave after one year either way. So I don't see the irony.

I agree with Cruxer, too, that Jay's perspective is undoubtedly influenced by his own injury. He has written at length about the despair he fell into after making that mistake, and he may see Zion coming back as a similar type of mistake. We don't have to agree with him but I think there is a reasonable basis for his position other than bashing Duke to prove his "neutrality" on ESPN.

[Mrduke21]

FWIW:

His father just posted this on Facebook "Thanks for all the prayers! MONSTAR will be back and better than ever. Thanks for the love."

[ChillinDuke]

I don’t at all understand why people think a minor injury changes the calculus so much. They knew all along that a minor injury at some point in the season was likely.

Further, he's already had a "minor" injury. This all assumes the knee injury is, in fact, minor. I'm operating under the assumption it is or else the doctors wouldn't have let K say "minor knee sprain".

At some point, someone is going to sit out in college. It's just the way things are moving. But I'm not sure it makes sense for Zion - probably more for a top tier guy on a team going nowhere.

Zion, however, is literally must-watch TV and the world is in awe / in love / can't stop talking about him. For him to go into relative irrelevance right now would, at least directionally, halt or slow all the momentum he's built up to date. He's a huge draw - people the world over are just starting to learn his name and see his talent. And the UNC game was going to even further advance that. The NCAAT will even further advance that. This guy is just a monster marketing giant the likes of which I've never seen at this level. While people are talking about protecting NBA salary dollars, that's all fine and good. But other dollars are being earned every single day he does something ridiculous on the court and then has a nice interview after. He's accruing money every minute he's on the court, in my view. It might not be dollars paid today, but he's earning them at a ridiculous rate right now.

- Chillin

[dukebluesincebirth]

Sorry if I've missed it, but are we waiting on anything "official" from Duke today, like MRI results, ,other medical tests, diagnoses, etc? Anyone heard of any timeline for this? I thought K said they'd let us know something today... any other info besides that?

[stingy]

With this talk of J-Will I just wanted to throw in that I saw him after the game talking to some ushers so I went up to him as a fellow class of 2002 alum and asked him how this compared to our 2001 home loss to Maryland when Boozer broke his foot. He said they got through it with the next man up philosophy, developed depth and then were even better when Boozer returned. He said we still have RJ and Cam and Marquese and Javin and that there’s no way Maye should have had 30 and 15 on us. I do feel like that despite being shocked by what happened we should have been able to defend him better. Anyway I didn’t ask Jason at the time if he thought Zion should sit out but I respect his opinion and we know he went through something tremendously awful and came out of it successfully. We should all want what’s best for Zion’s future and that’s up to him and his family. And just as a PS, it’s funny that Casey Sanders and Reggie Love were both there last night, “next man up” personified. Maybe take that as a positive omen?

[dukebluesincebirth]

FWIW:

His father just posted this on Facebook "Thanks for all the prayers! MONSTAR will be back and better than ever. Thanks for the love."

Best news of the last 24 hours, thanks.

[budwom]

Sorry if I've missed it, but are we waiting on anything "official" from Duke today, like MRI results, ,other medical tests, diagnoses, etc? Anyone heard of any timeline for this? I thought K said they'd let us know something today... any other info besides that?

yeah, we'll just have to wait...K will have to say at least something if he ever wants his phone to stop ringing, and I would imagine Nike sure would like to have a positive report out...he said he'd say something and I'm sure he will.

[scottdude8]

FWIW:

His father just posted this on Facebook "Thanks for all the prayers! MONSTAR will be back and better than ever. Thanks for the love."

Good find. Learning from past experience, the ONLY things I'll be putting any weight on when it comes to this injury are things said by him, his teammates, his family, and Duke directly. For me, reading the tea leaves on a family FB post like this is fair game. Reading the tea leaves into cryptic twitter posts from guys who are clearly fishing or from ESPN talking heads isn't going to help anyone sleep at night.

All that said, I think this has to be seen as a positive rather than negative sign. Can't see it as anything more than that, or anything more detailed that that. But I'll take any piece of positive real info we can find at this point!

[flyingdutchdevil]

Further, he's already had a "minor" injury. This all assumes the knee injury is, in fact, minor. I'm operating under the assumption it is or else the doctors wouldn't have let K say "minor knee sprain".

At some point, someone is going to sit out in college. It's just the way things are moving. But I'm not sure it makes sense for Zion - probably more for a top tier guy on a team going nowhere.

Zion, however, is literally must-watch TV and the world is in awe / in love / can't stop talking about him. For him to go into relative irrelevance right now would, at least directionally, halt or slow all the momentum he's built up to date. He's a huge draw - people the world over are just starting to learn his name and see his talent. And the UNC game was going to even further advance that. The NCAAT will even further advance that. This guy is just a monster marketing giant the likes of which I've never seen at this level. While people are talking about protecting NBA salary dollars, that's all fine and good. But other dollars are being earned every single day he does something ridiculous on the court and then has a nice interview after. He's accruing money every minute he's on the court, in my view. It might not be dollars paid today, but he's earning them at a ridiculous rate right now.

- Chillin

Did you see the injury? While it may have been minor, the optics were horrible. The man broke a shoe, for goodness sakes!

Zion is the biggest asset in sports right now. I assume if someone were to do a valuation of him, he'd be worth north of a quarter billion, taking into account a discount rate, taxes, etc. This is someone who needs to be protected from further injury as his future potential is 100x more important than one season of college ball. His impact to not only basketball, but also the community, business, etc can be enormous (think of Lebron's impact on social change, his community in Akron and the broader Cleveland area, the international game of basketball, etc). If Zion isn't a star in the league (or God forbid, never gets there), then Zion cannot accomplish as much.

Zion, IMO, is sooooooo much bigger than Duke basketball. I have absolutely drunk the Kool-Aid, but I also believe Zion can be the new Lebron in terms of non-basketball impact. But in order to achieve that non-basketball success, you gotta be an basketball star.

[Rich]

FWIW:

His father just posted this on Facebook "Thanks for all the prayers! MONSTAR will be back and better than ever. Thanks for the love."


Best news of the last 24 hours, thanks.

I hate to be a Debbie Downer, but that doesn't necessarily mean he'll be back at Duke. I think he will since the injury doesn't sound too serious, but I'm anxiously waiting for the official report from the team.

[Duke79UNLV77]

FWIW:

His father just posted this on Facebook "Thanks for all the prayers! MONSTAR will be back and better than ever. Thanks for the love."

MONSTAR! Love it!

[HereBeforeCoachK]

I hate to be a Debbie Downer, but that doesn't necessarily mean he'll be back at Duke. I think he will since the injury doesn't sound too serious, but I'm anxiously waiting for the official report from the team.

You're right...not NECESSARILY.......but I think it does mean that in this case.

[scottdude8]

I hate to be a Debbie Downer, but that doesn't necessarily mean he'll be back at Duke. I think he will since the injury doesn't sound too serious, but I'm anxiously waiting for the official report from the team.

It took all my restraint not to point this out in my original post and remain optimistic. Now you've put it out into the world and it can't be taken back. Curse you!!! (Please read with heavy sarcasm, haha).

[billy]

A minor injury is anything that happens to the cheats/Hoos/Deacs/etc. A major injury is anything that occurs to one of our players. :rolleyes:;)

Spot on, doc. The optics (particularly to Duke fans and Nike) were terrible but injuries like the purported sprain are simply part of being an athlete.

It's always possible that he and his family decide to sit out the remainder of the season as a hedge against further minor or major injuries. But, given the love of playing he exudes, as well as his relationships with his teammates, I wouldn't be surprised to see him play against 'cuse. (Assuming the reports of him running in the hallway after the injury and the diagnosis of sprained MCL are true).

[scottdude8]

Spot on, doc. The optics (particularly to Duke fans and Nike) were terrible but injuries like the purported sprain are simply part of being an athlete.

It's always possible that he and his family decide to sit out the remainder of the season as a hedge against further minor or major injuries. But, given the love of playing he exudes, as well as his relationships with his teammates, I wouldn't be surprised to see him play against 'cuse. (Assuming the reports of him running in the hallway after the injury and the diagnosis of sprained MCL are true).

Can you clarify where you heard the "running in the hallway" and "sprained MCL" reports?

[Dukehk]

With this talk of J-Will I just wanted to throw in that I saw him after the game talking to some ushers so I went up to him as a fellow class of 2002 alum and asked him how this compared to our 2001 home loss to Maryland when Boozer broke his foot. He said they got through it with the next man up philosophy, developed depth and then were even better when Boozer returned. He said we still have RJ and Cam and Marquese and Javin and that there’s no way Maye should have had 30 and 15 on us. I do feel like that despite being shocked by what happened we should have been able to defend him better. Anyway I didn’t ask Jason at the time if he thought Zion should sit out but I respect his opinion and we know he went through something tremendously awful and came out of it successfully. We should all want what’s best for Zion’s future and that’s up to him and his family. And just as a PS, it’s funny that Casey Sanders and Reggie Love were both there last night, “next man up” personified. Maybe take that as a positive omen?

Great example and exactly what I was thinking too. The silver lining is that this will throw the "role players" into the deep end and force them to contribute. Coach K has done it before and hopefully can do it again by developing our bench. Guys like White, O'Connell and Javin can and should contribute more. With them playing confident and getting their shooting strokes back, we would almost be a vastly improved team assuming Williamson comes back and is healthy.

[Rich]

It took all my restraint not to point this out in my original post and remain optimistic. Now you've put it out into the world and it can't be taken back. Curse you!!! (Please read with heavy sarcasm, haha).

Given my (lack of) success in the Degenerates contest, apparently the opposite happens with everything I do lately. Accept my skepticism as yielding only positive results! (Of course, I could've reverse jinxed it with this post!)

[Ky-Dukie]

Can you clarify where you heard the "running in the hallway" and "sprained MCL" reports?

Maria Taylor on Espn said that last night after he left the bench. She said that you could see Zion running back and forth testing the knee. The sprained mcl , I'm not sure where that came from.

[Pomona]

https://www.foxbusiness.com/personal-finance/dukes-zion-williamson-has-8m-insurance-policy-against-pre-nba-injuries-report

"...that kicks in if he falls outside the top-16 picks in the 2019 NBA Draft due to injury..."

"Duke covered the cost of the insurance policy, which likely cost around $50,000, Rovell reported, citing sources familiar with the matter. The NCAA includes a fact-sheet for loss-of-value insurance on its website.

The policy “protects a student-athlete’s future contract value from decreasing below a predetermined amount due to a significant injury or illness suffered during the policy’s designated coverage period. It is typically purchased for the year leading up to the athlete’s draft eligibility. It requires medical underwriting, and may include exclusions for specific pre-existing injuries or illnesses,” according to the NCAA."

[crimsondevil]

Maria Taylor on Espn said that last night after he left the bench. She said that you could see Zion running back and forth testing the knee. The sprained mcl , I'm not sure where that came from.

K said "mild knee sprain" post-game. "MCL" is an educated guess based on how the injury occurred and Zion's reaction (grabbing the back of his knee).

It should also be mentioned (again) that running in a straight line is not the same as being able to cut side-to-side without pain.

[jv001]

K said "mild knee sprain" post-game. "MCL" is an educated guess based on how the injury occurred and Zion's reaction (grabbing the back of his knee).

It should also be mentioned (again) that running in a straight line is not the same as being able to cut side-to-side without pain.

I would think Zion was just testing for how bad the pain was. Just a guess. Without an MRI I don't think Coach K would have put him back in without medical clearance. GoDuke!

[bundabergdevil]

Carlos Boozer wishes Zion (National Park) well - Zion (National Park) responds (https://twitter.com/NatlParkService/status/1098432362793394176?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5 Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1098432362793394176&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fs.yimg.com%2Fos%2Fyc%2Fhtml% 2Fembed-iframe-min.2d7621e2.html). Made me chuckle.

[JayZee]

I would think Zion was just testing for how bad the pain was. Just a guess. Without an MRI I don't think Coach K would have put him back in without medical clearance. GoDuke!

Players want to play, even when they maybe shouldn't (well except for Scottie Pippen - https://www.nytimes.com/1994/05/14/sports/pro-basketball-disgusted-pippen-sits-down-for-game-winning-play.html) This is why there are concussion protocols. This is why coaches put minute restrictions on players coming back from injury (Joel Embid, Demarcus Cousins) Zion was probably itching to come back.

I'd personally be bummed for a number of reasons if he was healthy and still decided to sit out the rest of the season. I also think that it would hurt his brand which is driven by his magical combination of skill, athleticism, charisma, and team-first work ethic. Sitting out healthy, tho clearly justifiable, would tarnish that brand at least somewhat.

Of course that is all contingent on him being healthy and not having any undue risk of re injuring his knee.

[freshmanjs]

I also think that it would hurt his brand which is driven by his magical combination of skill, athleticism, charisma, and team-first work ethic. Sitting out healthy, tho clearly justifiable, would tarnish that brand at least somewhat.


This would never happen. If he decided to sit out, they would just say he wasn't able to play. Regardless, I think he will definitely be back if he can be.

[moonpie23]

why are our guys wearing the CHEAP STUFF??? (https://247sports.com/Article/Zion-Williamson-Nike-PG-25-sneakers-Duke-detailed-look-129334364/?fbclid=IwAR08YWv9zUj5IGIZFARLPFyJd4yYSmfaGDpmGWxC WvGkknZ4HXc0tr8HZTc)

those are NOT elite shoes for our elite players....

[Bluedog]

why are our guys wearing the CHEAP STUFF??? (https://247sports.com/Article/Zion-Williamson-Nike-PG-25-sneakers-Duke-detailed-look-129334364/?fbclid=IwAR08YWv9zUj5IGIZFARLPFyJd4yYSmfaGDpmGWxC WvGkknZ4HXc0tr8HZTc)

those are NOT elite shoes for our elite players...

I know you're mostly kidding, but if you've seen Duke Basketball's videos of Duke's sneaker room, you'd be pretty impressed. These guys get access to everything they want from a Nike shoe perspective. So, the obvious answer is that, Zion chose to wear those (for some reason) over all others for this particular game.

[budwom]

I know you're mostly kidding, but if you've seen Duke Basketball's videos of Duke's sneaker room, you'd be pretty impressed. These guys get access to everything they want from a Nike shoe perspective. So, the obvious answer is that, Zion chose to wear those (for some reason) over all others for this particular game.

I'm not sure he is kidding...I checked them out earlier today, the PG2.5 is not an upscale shoe....yeah, maybe the version Duke uses is special, but it sure looks the same...I found the same price online at Nike ($92)...I drag my aged carcass around on shoes that are more substantial than those...I do agree with your point, though, that Zion no doubt had a wide choice of models...

[mattman91]

I'm not sure he is kidding...I checked them out earlier today, the PG2.5 is not an upscale shoe...yeah, maybe the version Duke uses is special, but it sure looks the same...I found the same price online at Nike ($92)...I drag my aged carcass around on shoes that are more substantial than those...I do agree with your point, though, that Zion no doubt had a wide choice of models...

Stop victim blaming:rolleyes:

[dukebluesincebirth]

I’m getting worried about why we haven’t heard anything from Duke today?? Medical tests have most certainly been completed, right? No news is concerning. Somebody help me.

[HereBeforeCoachK]

Sad state of affairs when Jalen Rose of The Fab Five makes more sense than J Will about the Zion situation......(as did Mike DeCourcy).

[proelitedota]

Sad state of affairs when Jalen Rose of The Fab Five makes more sense than J Will about the Zion situation...(as did Mike DeCourcy).

Care to elaborate for those who are not as fortunate to have seen this segment?

[Tooold]

Care to elaborate for those who are not as fortunate to have seen this segment?

I can’t remember his exact words, but Jalen (who IMO usually is very anti-Duke in his comments) said he thought Zion would/should return to play for Duke.

[JayZee]

Care to elaborate for those who are not as fortunate to have seen this segment?

Jalen said that Zion came to Duke to play and to win championships.

Same with Decoursey.

Doug Gottlieb said the same.

JWill said hang it up.

Demarcus Cousins said that the NCAA is corrupt. Said Zion should do whatever he wants.

[HereBeforeCoachK]

Care to elaborate for those who are not as fortunate to have seen this segment?

Yeah it's on the main page at espn.com near the top...and on my browser it doesn't have it's own url.

Jalen has a good take, and Stephen A. has a good take, explaining why Zion should play at Duke when he can. Both videos are right near the top.

In short, Jalen's take was that Zion will get better coaching at Duke than he will an NBA lottery team, and that his injury was a non contact injury, the very thing that could happen in solo drills. He also said that he's going number 1 in the draft regardless, so that money is already slotted at what it will be...and is going to get an amazing shoe deal.

Both his take and Stephen A's are less than two minutes and worth the listen. Also worth it is Mike DeCourcy's column today, on why Zion should play again for Duke.

[uh_no]

Jalen said that Zion came to Duke to play and to win championships.

Same with Decoursey.

Doug Gottlieb said the same.

JWill said hang it up.

Demarcus Cousins said that the NCAA is corrupt. Said Zion should do whatever he wants.

Jay bilas said he knew this would happen all along, which was his excuse for picking UNC, and that this is definitely the NCAA's fault.

[HereBeforeCoachK]

Jalen said that Zion came to Duke to play and to win championships.

Same with Decoursey.

Doug Gottlieb said the same.

JWill said hang it up.

Demarcus Cousins said that the NCAA is corrupt. Said Zion should do whatever he wants.

DeCourcy also does a good job of breaking down how good Duke is for Zion...as well as how Zion is good for Duke. And both are certainly true. He also said, correctly, that coming out of high school Zion was no higher than 7th pick in the NBA...that his Duke performance is why he is number one...so he'll make a TON more money in the first four years even starting a year later. Then there's the endorsement deals he'll have with all the Duke exposure.

Like DeCourcy said, Duke has been worth millions to Zion. Much more so than direct to the pros, or at say, Clemson. He also said Duke hasn't had a hard time selling tickets in four decades. IOW...Duke Zion is huge win win for both, but Duke was big first.

[DUKIE V(A)]

We should not pretend that sitting out the rest of the season is not a serious option that Zion should consider. I'm a diehard Duke fan, but I wouldn't blame him one bit if that's the direction he goes. If he asked me for my advice, I'd probably tell him to sit. Of course, most competitors want to compete, especially with a team that has the kind of chemistry this team has. I suspect Zion will be back, but it is certainly not the best business decision.

No hard feelings for Jay to tell the truth about this analysis. It's his job! ESPN pays him lotsa dough to be an honest broker, not to be a Duke fan.


I understand you expect Zion back, but what makes it a poor business decision to come back? I think the opposite. Assuming he is medically cleared, ZION would not be ZION if he were the type of guy not to come back. Competing and being there for his teammates is the essence of what Zion is about. Zion will make hundreds of millions on endorsements alone based on not only his unique talent but the joyfulness and passion he exudes on the court. In my view, he will add to his legend and make even more by coming back.

[KandG]

Total relief...for now.

https://twitter.com/ShamsCharania/status/1098718840899493888

[Green Wave Dukie]

Total relief...for now.

https://twitter.com/ShamsCharania/status/1098718840899493888

Yeah, praise the Lord for that news. Literally.

[proelitedota]

Thank you basketball jesus.

[cruxer]

[QUOTE=cruxer;1130944]We should not pretend that sitting out the rest of the season is not a serious option that Zion should consider. I'm a diehard Duke fan, but I wouldn't blame him one bit if that's the direction he goes. If he asked me for my advice, I'd probably tell him to sit. Of course, most competitors want to compete, especially with a team that has the kind of chemistry this team has. I suspect Zion will be back, but it is certainly not the best business decision.

No hard feelings for Jay to tell the truth about this analysis. It's his job! ESPN pays him lotsa dough to be an honest broker, not to be a Duke fan.[/QUOTE


I understand you expect Zion back, but what makes it a poor business decision to come back? I think the opposite. Assuming he is medically cleared, ZION would not be ZION if he were the type of guy not to come back. Competing and being there for his teammates is the essence of what Zion is about. Zion will make hundreds of millions on endorsements alone based on not only his unique talent but the joyfulness and passion he exudes on the court. In my view, he will add to his legend and make even more by coming back.

It's a bad business decision specifically because, unless he suffers a more catastrophic injury, he is a lock for the #1 pick and an astronomical endorsement deal. He can't improve his financial situation by playing, but he could hurt it if the unthinkable happens. That makes coming back riskier than not coming back. That's basically the Pippen argument.

But of course players want to play, and brothers want to compete side-by-side with each other. College is an experience that's very different from the grind of professional sports. Those are all great reasons to come back, but they aren't business reasons. I don't know the kid but I agree that the chemistry on this team and what I've seen of him makes me think he couldn't stand to sit when he could be playing. But I will pass no judgment on him if that's the way he decides to go. Either decision is the right one if he's good with it.

[KandG]

Total relief...for now.

https://twitter.com/ShamsCharania/status/1098718840899493888

Follow up from The Athletic's @shamscharania:

Duke star Zion Williamson has a Grade 1 right knee sprain and will be day-to-day. Sigh of relief for the possible No. 1 overall pick.

Throughout day, Williamson and Duke believed injury would be minor — Grade 1 sprain. He will be day-to-day, with a return based on his healing progress.

[dukelifer]

Total relief...for now.

https://twitter.com/ShamsCharania/status/1098718840899493888

Good news for Zion.

[WHOneedsSOX]

Total relief...for now.

https://twitter.com/ShamsCharania/status/1098718840899493888

That's great news.

[WVDUKEFAN]

Good for him no matter what he decides.

[freshmanjs]

Good for him no matter what he decides.

They would never have put out a statement worded like that if he wasn't planning to play. The idea that he has some new big decision to make is just manufactured by the media.

[ndkjr70]

Holy Lord in Heaven. I am crying happy tears.

[Edouble]

Total relief...for now.

https://twitter.com/ShamsCharania/status/1098718840899493888

Any knee experts out there who can chime in?

A quick google search on grade 1 knee sprains says that:

"Many grade 1 and 2 knee sprains heal within two to four weeks."

and also

"Treatment of a ligament injury varies depending on its location and severity. Grade I sprains usually heal within a few weeks. Maximal ligament strength will occur after six weeks when the collagen fibres have matured."

So... "day to day" could be a lot of days?

[Jeffrey]

It's a bad business decision specifically because, unless he suffers a more catastrophic injury, he is a lock for the #1 pick and an astronomical endorsement deal. He can't improve his financial situation by playing, but he could hurt it if the unthinkable happens. That makes coming back riskier than not coming back. That's basically the Pippen argument.



IMO, this is a risk/return analysis given current compensation levels. On a percentage basis, the risk of a college player having a career ending, or even substantially damaging, injury is very low. The return of playing and improving at the highest current competition level possible, possibly winning a National Title, and playing for the GOAT college coach is substantial. Easy for me to say, but I'd definitely advise continuing to play and negotiating a huge Nike deal.

[Kedsy]

Any knee experts out there who can chime in?

A quick google search on grade 1 knee sprains says that:

"Many grade 1 and 2 knee sprains heal within two to four weeks."

and also

"Treatment of a ligament injury varies depending on its location and severity. Grade I sprains usually heal within a few weeks. Maximal ligament strength will occur after six weeks when the collagen fibres have matured."

So... "day to day" could be a lot of days?

FWIW, two weeks would give him a couple practices before the second UNC game. More than two weeks means not until the ACCT, and four weeks means not until the NCAAT.

[Jeffrey]

So... "day to day" could be a lot of days?

Or, Saturday.

[Troublemaker]

Some Zion odds available at BetOnline sportsbook: https://www.betonline.ag/sportsbook/futures-and-props/ncaam-specials

No need to click on that link as I took a screenshot below:

https://www.betonline.ag/sportsbook/futures-and-props/ncaam-specialshttps://i.imgur.com/s6k63L1.png


I would expect "Regular Season", "Nike", and "Yes" to get pounded. These current odds won't last.

[Jeffrey]

I would expect "Regular Season", "Nike", and "Yes" to get pounded. These current odds won't last.

Strongly agree!

[freshmanjs]

MBIII's injury last year was also described as a "mild knee sprain." He missed 4 games and approx. 2 weeks.

[HereBeforeCoachK]

MBIII's injury last year was also described as a "mild knee sprain." He missed 4 games and approx. 2 weeks.

MB was not a cyborg.....

[scottdude8]

I’m pretty sure that the timelines you find when you google these injuries are for the average patient... not an athlete with an entire training staff at his disposal. It may take me 6 weeks to recover from a sprain going to PT twice a week... but assuming Zion is getting PT round the clock, it’s an entirely different ball game.

What a relief.

[ChillinDuke]

Some Zion odds available at BetOnline sportsbook: https://www.betonline.ag/sportsbook/futures-and-props/ncaam-specials

No need to click on that link as I took a screenshot below:

https://www.betonline.ag/sportsbook/futures-and-props/ncaam-specialshttps://i.imgur.com/s6k63L1.png


I would expect "Regular Season", "Nike", and "Yes" to get pounded. These current odds won't last.

Adidas is the current odds favorite? Interesting.

- Chillin

[JonnyWonder]

https://www.foxbusiness.com/personal-finance/dukes-zion-williamson-has-8m-insurance-policy-against-pre-nba-injuries-report

"...that kicks in if he falls outside the top-16 picks in the 2019 NBA Draft due to injury..."

"Duke covered the cost of the insurance policy, which likely cost around $50,000, Rovell reported, citing sources familiar with the matter. The NCAA includes a fact-sheet for loss-of-value insurance on its website.

The policy “protects a student-athlete’s future contract value from decreasing below a predetermined amount due to a significant injury or illness suffered during the policy’s designated coverage period. It is typically purchased for the year leading up to the athlete’s draft eligibility. It requires medical underwriting, and may include exclusions for specific pre-existing injuries or illnesses,” according to the NCAA."

This is really interesting! With all this talk of Zion needing to shut it down for the rest of the season to avoid injury risk, I thought it would make sense for elite players with clear lottery potential to get insurance policies. Cool that Duke covered it, although I wonder how common this is. This type of thing really should be standardized, perhaps using a panel of experts or recruiting rankings to determine who gets a policy and level of coverage while in college, and the schools or NCAA being required to purchase the policy for the player.

[simplyluvin]

Total relief...for now.

https://twitter.com/ShamsCharania/status/1098718840899493888

Thank God for this wonderful news...does day to day mean he might suit up for Syracuse?

[WiJoe]

I believe Zion was an "adidas" guy before he came to Duke.

[uh_no]

Thank God for this wonderful news...does day to day mean he might suit up for Syracuse?

in theory...but i wouldn't get my hopes up.

[KandG]

Thank God for this wonderful news...does day to day mean he might suit up for Syracuse?

I'm not the coaching staff or the player, but I would be extremely shocked if Zion were rushed back that soon. I would guess a minimum of a week, but as many have said, we're not the force of nature Zion is, and we're all speculating at this point.

[ndkjr70]

Thank God for this wonderful news...does day to day mean he might suit up for Syracuse?

I hope he doesn’t play until he’s 200% ready. If that’s the Miami game, fine. If that’s not until March madness, fine.

[fathippo]

Thank God for this wonderful news...does day to day mean he might suit up for Syracuse?

On Basketball and Beyond Coach K said he all the tests were "optimistic", he was receiving treatment today, but they did not want to put a timetable on his return. Also, that they wanted to make certain he was completely ready when he returned. For what it is worth Travis Reid has a mild knee injury and Kentucky said he would return in 7-10 days.

[richardjackson199]

in theory...but i wouldn't get my hopes up.

If Zion is not going to play vs Syracuse, I think it's worth it for those in the know to continue to ask the question if Joey Baker should play vs Syracuse? We sure could use some good shooting against that zone and guys getting tired was an issue in Cameron. I'd love nothing more than Jack and Alex to make a 3. But at some point, we need a bench. Our best starter not playing (who scored 30+ vs Syracuse last time) might be that point. This team could use a win on Saturday to get back on track. I'll trust whatever K decides with our lineup and sure it will be the right decision. But this team can win it all and is still in pretty great position for seeding.

Yes I know others completely disagree and you're probably right. We all just want this team to win and could use one this weekend.

Prayers to Boeheim, his family, and the family of the man who lost his life.

[proelitedota]

MBIII's injury last year was also described as a "mild knee sprain." He missed 4 games and approx. 2 weeks.

Zions could be a milder mild knee sprain.

[Rich]

If Zion is not going to play vs Syracuse, I think it's worth it for those in the know to continue to ask the question if Joey Baker should play vs Syracuse?

richardjackson, your contributions to this Board are terrific, but this storyline is so played out can we please just stop? It’s been addressed ad nauseum why Joey Baker is not going to play this season.

[dukelifer]

Thank God for this wonderful news...does day to day mean he might suit up for Syracuse?

Probably not- He will likely receive therapy for several days if not a week. Complete speculation but Duke will err on the side of caution.

[scottdude8]

richardjackson, your contributions to this Board are terrific, but this storyline is so played out can we please just stop? It’s been addressed ad nauseum why Joey Baker is not going to play this season.

Seconded.

[sagegrouse]

Care to elaborate for those who are not as fortunate to have seen this segment?

Jalen made the point that Zion got hurt doing, well, "basically nothing." There was no contact with anyone or anything. If he drops off the team, he will still be doing workouts and drills (and probably scrimmages, sez Ol' Sage), and there is risk in doing those things.

[WiJoe]

Seconded.

you and rich can take all your sporks and stuff 'em.

Totally reasonable to ask about Baker. And ask and ask and ask. A long as Baker is in uniform for games, there's a chance, however small, that he plays.

Period.

[sagegrouse]

Although I am seldom sarcastic:rolleyes: , Zion being available "day-to-day" gives K a chance to drive opposing coaches crazy planning for two totally different Duke teams.

I personally expect Zion to be back in two weeks -- either Wake Forest or North Carolina.

[stedge]

Folks betting against nike dont get it. They are gonna want him for brand rehab. He is gonna say, “well, given the stuff that happened, i will wear a new custom uber big man shoe from nike but you are gonna have to double the highest offer.”

He has Nike over a barrel.

[flyingdutchdevil]

Although I am seldom sarcastic:rolleyes: , Zion being available "day-to-day" gives K a chance to drive opposing coaches crazy planning for two totally different Duke teams.

I personally expect Zion to be back in two weeks -- either Wake Forest or North Carolina.

You mean one that can score and the other that relies exclusively on two players for offense? ;)

I saw the importance of Zion yesterday. Not from the ability to fill the stat sheet or that Duke couldn't win without him, but from the perspective that giving Zion 200% more attention than any other player means other players can score easier. We've had players receive a ton of attention. But nowhere near this amount.

[subzero02]

You mean one that can score and the other that relies exclusively on two players for offense? ;)

I saw the importance of Zion yesterday. Not from the ability to fill the stat sheet or that Duke couldn't win without him, but from the perspective that giving Zion 200% more attention than any other player means other players can score easier. We've had players receive a ton of attention. But nowhere near this amount.

JJ during his senior year drew more attention than Zion. I remember him getting double teamed behind the 3 point line on more than one occasion that season.

[JayZee]

You mean one that can score and the other that relies exclusively on two players for offense? ;)

I saw the importance of Zion yesterday. Not from the ability to fill the stat sheet or that Duke couldn't win without him, but from the perspective that giving Zion 200% more attention than any other player means other players can score easier. We've had players receive a ton of attention. But nowhere near this amount.

Zion is incredibly important, clearly. But we also saw an entire game plan ruined in the first 30 seconds, a stunned team and crowd, and a well coached opponent who did not let up.

Personally, I’d live to see Zion take his time, and have Coach focus on getting Jack, Javin and AOC their game egos back, particularly Jack. We miss early season Jack a ton right now.

[billy]

We've had players receive a ton of attention. But nowhere near this amount.

Grayson says “Hi”!

[JayZee]

Grayson says “Hi”!

He meant in court attention, not off. JJ also had a ton of on court gravity, maybe more.

[HereBeforeCoachK]

You mean one that can score and the other that relies exclusively on two players for offense? ;)

I saw the importance of Zion yesterday. Not from the ability to fill the stat sheet or that Duke couldn't win without him, but from the perspective that giving Zion 200% more attention than any other player means other players can score easier. We've had players receive a ton of attention. But nowhere near this amount.

This is what I've been saying since early...that Zion commands everyone's eyeballs whether he has the ball or not.....and this inherently opens up things for everybody else for every second he is on the court. They probably even watch him on the bench. EXAMPLE: against GT, Tre was running a 3 on 1 with RJ and Zion on the flanks. Before Tre even gave a fake, the GT player moved to Zion's side, leaving an easy flip to RJ for a dunk.

[Devilwin]

Maybe he won't go against Syracuse, but possibly the game after. I want him 100% against them in the Dean Dome.

[devildeac]

Although I am seldom sarcastic:rolleyes: , Zion being available "day-to-day" gives K a chance to drive opposing coaches crazy planning for two totally different Duke teams.

I personally expect Zion to be back in two weeks -- either Wake Forest or North Carolina.

Evil genius? ;)

[devildeac]

JJ during his senior year drew more attention than Zion. I remember him getting double teamed behind the 3 point line on more than one occasion that season, in addition to incessant holding, mauling and hip checks while running around/through/fighting off attackers.

Minor additions. ;)

[wavedukefan70s]

Maybe he won't go against Syracuse, but possibly the game after. I want him 100% against them in the Dean Dome.

Absolutely agree.i had to hear from lunatics all day that luke maye defense was so good zion had cut even harder to get by him because he was in perfect position.and that zion couldnt contain maye anyway .that zion wouldnt affect the heels if he was on thier team.these fools were serious.i not so politely requested they sterilized themselves before they pollute the world with thier ignorance. We would love to serve them a big dish of revenge.if nothing else it will shut them up.
Heal fast zion my sanity needs you.

[UrinalCake]

This is the best possible news we could have hoped for. Even if he misses a couple weeks and we drop our games at Syracuse and VT, having him back for the stretch run is far better than any scenario I had running through my head last night. We still don't know for sure when or even if he will return, but the most likely scenario given this diagnosis seems to be that he'll miss a week or two.

K will have to work some magic to pull out a couple wins in our upcoming games, but it could have been much much worse. This season has been such a roller coaster already - the Kentucky blowout, the Gonzaga loss, Tre's injury, now this.

[robed deity]

Maybe he won't go against Syracuse, but possibly the game after. I want him 100% against them in the Dean Dome.

Maye will not sniff 30 and 15 again, that's for sure.

[Dr. Rosenrosen]

Total relief...for now.

https://twitter.com/ShamsCharania/status/1098718840899493888
And if you don’t laugh at the reply with photoshop of Zion playing Twister, I don’t know what to tell you.

[robed deity]

Absolutely agree.i had to hear from lunatics all day that luke maye defense was so good zion had cut even harder to get by him because he was in perfect position.and that zion couldnt contain maye anyway .that zion wouldnt affect the heels if he was on thier team.these fools were serious.i not so politely requested they sterilized themselves before they pollute the world with thier ignorance. We would love to serve them a big dish of revenge.if nothing else it will shut them up.
Heal fast zion my sanity needs you.

I cannot imagine someone saying the words "Zion can't contain Luke Maye" with a straight face, but they are a unique fan base.

[HereBeforeCoachK]

I cannot imagine someone saying the words "Zion can't contain Luke Maye" with a straight face, but they are a unique fan base.

That's beyond belief, even for Heel fans. I do not remember, as a Duke fan, not recognizing the greatness of David Thomspon, MJ, Len Bias, Ralph Sampson, Horace Grant, Larry Nance, Walter Davis, James Worthy, and gosh knows how many others.....

But here's the thing....UNC is irrelevant today in the sports news....because of Zion. Only Bilas is even mentioning them. It's all Zion, all Duke, all the time. It's like the loss never even happened (in a way). Maybe Zion will shut Luke OUT in the Dome.

[Steven43]

Absolutely agree.i had to hear from lunatics all day that luke maye defense was so good zion had cut even harder to get by him because he was in perfect position.and that zion couldnt contain maye anyway .that zion wouldnt affect the heels if he was on thier team.these fools were serious.i not so politely requested they sterilized themselves before they pollute the world with thier ignorance. We would love to serve them a big dish of revenge.if nothing else it will shut them up.
Heal fast zion my sanity needs you.

These UNC morons think Luke Maye can effectively guard Zion Williamson one-on-one??? Please tell me you’re kidding. They can’t possibly be this delusional. I’m already getting psyched up for the rematch. They are really pissing me off now.

[WiJoe]

I cannot imagine someone saying the words "Zion can't contain Luke Maye" with a straight face, but they are a unique fan base.

they are lunatics, every d*mn one of them

[wavedukefan70s]

These UNC morons think Luke Maye can effectively guard Zion Williamson one-on-one??? Please tell me you’re kidding. They can’t possibly be this delusional. I’m already getting psyched up for the rematch. They are really pissing me off now.

I thought they were razzing me at first.they were dead serious.its so insane you cannot effectively argue it.
When they have a great player I acknowledge hes a great player.this stuff is crazy.i even admit Roy us a top 10 coach today .doesnt mean I like his team.

[Devilwin]

Zion would have crammed half Maye's shots down his throat. And on the other end scored at will. No way in Hell they score 62 in the paint with Zion there.:mad:

[Dukehk]

Just feel a huge relief that the injury was not as serious as first expected.

Now that he is listed as day to day, hopefully he will be back by the time we play VT?

Nike better send him some custom made shoes.

[arnie]

Just feel a huge relief that the injury was not as serious as first expected.

Now that he is listed as day to day, hopefully he will be back by the time we play VT?

Nike better send him some custom made shoes.

Or he goes back to the Adidas shoe he wore in high school. Don’t think Nike would make a big stink😏

[Devilwin]

Nike stock falling..lol

[HaveFunExpectToWin]

This is what I've been saying since early...that Zion commands everyone's eyeballs whether he has the ball or not....and this inherently opens up things for everybody else for every second he is on the court. They probably even watch him on the bench. EXAMPLE: against GT, Tre was running a 3 on 1 with RJ and Zion on the flanks. Before Tre even gave a fake, the GT player moved to Zion's side, leaving an easy flip to RJ for a dunk.

Not sure if anyone else has noticed that ESPN has had one camera assigned to Zion at all times.

[Stray Gator]

A couple of thoughts that may already have been mentioned, but merit emphasis in any event as cause for optimism:

1. While I detest losing to UNC in Cameron as much as any Duke fan, what disheartens me most today is knowing how disappointed Zion must feel as he realizes that his opportunity to experience participating in the one home game every recruit who comes to Duke dreams of playing in was cruelly curtailed after less than a minute. Based on what we've learned about Zion's personality and attitude, I'm sure he's frustrated by the fact that he was unable to help his teammates fight off and eventually defeat the invading rivals in what is widely recognized as the premier -- and certainly the most highly publicized -- game of the college basketball season. But it is that very frustration, and the knowledge that he still has an opportunity to write an important chapter in the tradition of the rivalry, which I believe will magnify his already-intense motivation to be ready for the rematch in Chapel Hill. If Duke can win that game, the loss last night will be regarded in retrospect as a meaningless anomaly, at least for purposes of assessing the relative strength and prospects of the teams going into the postseason tournaments.

2. In the meantime, when Duke started to run the dreaded 6-game gauntlet, few expected the Blue Devils to reach this point completely unscathed after road games at Virginia and Louisville and home tilts against N.C. State and UNC. We enjoyed being the beneficiaries of unexpected good fortune at Louisville. Now we've suffered a bit of painful misfortune at home. But on balance, at 3-1 through that stretch, I think Duke is in as good a position as we could reasonably have expected -- except, of course, for the uncertainty about whether we'll be back at full strength for the remaining two games, both of which are on the road. The good news is that this team seems to play better on the road. And we're due for a game in which we shoot a high percentage from behind the arc, the arrival of which would be most propitious at Syracuse on Saturday. If Duke can find a way to bring back road victories in the next two games, there's a good chance we'll go into the rematch against UNC at full strength, with an opportunity to win the regular season ACC title and lock up a #1 seed in the NCAA Tourney. All things considered, I still like our prospects better than those of any other program.

[Steven43]

I thought they were razzing me at first.they were dead serious.its so insane you cannot effectively argue it.
When they have a great player I acknowledge hes a great player.this stuff is crazy.i even admit Roy us a top 10 coach today .doesnt mean I like his team.

Yeah, it never ceases to amaze me how childish, downright mean, and divorced from reality UNC basketball fans can be. When I first moved to Durham in the summer of 2000 I was shocked — SHOCKED — at their pettiness and viciousness. I really and truly was shocked.

I lived in Austin, TX, for 13 years prior and the mean-spiritedness of UNC fans reminded of Texas A&M fans towards the University of Texas. But that was different because A&M clearly had/has a chip on their shoulder about big brother UT Austin. What’s different here is that UNC honestly believes they are a superior university with a superior class of people as compared to Duke. You and I know they could not be more wrong, but they honestly believe it. It drives me crazy.

[moonpie23]

"You must spread some Comments around before commenting on Stray Gator again."

thanks.....i needed that....

[devildeac]

These UNC morons think Luke Maye can effectively guard Zion Williamson one-on-one??? Please tell me you’re kidding. They can’t possibly be this delusional. I’m already getting psyched up for the rematch. They are really pissing me off now.

The DBR stealth members over there must not quote enough of I(nsanity) C(entral) excrement then to keep us all well informed.

[wavedukefan70s]

Zion would have crammed half Maye's shots down his throat. And on the other end scored at will. No way in Hell they score 62 in the paint with Zion there.:mad:

I thought the same thing maye may have gotten 10 and 8 .if he didnt foul out.
They are immortalizing a guy that might not make the nba ( he does the best with what hes got though).against one of the best players to play college basketball.

[devildeac]

I thought the same thing maye may have gotten 10 and 8 .if he didnt foul out.
They are immortalizing a guy that might not make the nba ( he does the best with what hes got though).against one of the best players to play college basketball.

Maye? Foul out? With acc refs? Against Duke? LOL

(It may well have happened-I'm not going to damage my eyes researching the cheats schedule for the last 3.5 year.)

[BandAlum83]

You mean one that can score and the other that relies exclusively on two players for offense? ;)

I saw the importance of Zion yesterday. Not from the ability to fill the stat sheet or that Duke couldn't win without him, but from the perspective that giving Zion 200% more attention than any other player means other players can score easier. We've had players receive a ton of attention. But nowhere near this amount.

I saw it on transitions and how we had so many givebacks after steals. Without Zion on one of the lanes, it really looked like we didn’t know what to do

[wavedukefan70s]

Maye? Foul out? With acc refs? Against Duke? LOL

(It may well have happened-I'm not going to damage my eyes researching the cheats schedule for the last 3.5 year.)

If anyone can foul him out zion could .

[duke4ever19]

If Zion is even half as intense about playing the rest of the season as he is when on the court, then he will be unstoppable in his pursuit to do that. I see his genuine love for Duke and Coach K and especially his teammates. I know the doctors and staff will want him 100% ready to go, but I think he will be begging to get back on that court. He just seems like that type of guy.

[UrinalCake]

The always classy UNC fan base, mocking a player’s injury.

9105

[Stray Gator]

The always classy UNC fan base, mocking a player’s injury.

9105

About what we would expect from them. But their window of opportunity may be narrow. Assuming the Blue Devils are restored to full strength, I think we can expect our guys to limit the useful life of those shirts to about 2 weeks.

[devildeac]

The always classy UNC fan base, mocking a player’s injury.

9105

Seeing that PoS really, really tests my limits of sportsmanship.

I hope Duke MBB can find one of those in a refuse heap/dumpster somewhere and circulate that rag around the locker room.

:mad::mad:

[Steven43]

The always classy UNC fan base, mocking a player’s injury.

9105

I cannot believe someone associated with UNC gave the okay for that shirt. Not only is it tactless and obtuse, but it has an illustration of the main reason they were able to win. That stupid and tacky shirt undermines the very victory they are so proud of.

[bigperm13]

I have no problem believing they endorsed that shirt because they're morons.

[SavDukeGrad]

Well I think that shirt is about the best “bulletin board” material we could have asked for when it comes to the re-match.

[HereBeforeCoachK]

I saw it on transitions and how we had so many givebacks after steals. Without Zion on one of the lanes, it really looked like we didn’t know what to do

Right...with Zion in one of the lanes....it's clear sailing for the other lanes......

[johnb]

Jalen said that Zion came to Duke to play and to win championships.

Same with Decoursey.

Doug Gottlieb said the same.

JWill said hang it up.

Demarcus Cousins said that the NCAA is corrupt. Said Zion should do whatever he wants.

Of course Zion should do what he wants (but Duke’s statement means he’s coming back—if he weren’t, they’d have made a different statement).

Jay (accident) and Scottie (financial recklessness) are talking about themselves—they should have made different decisions, though Zion playing b-ball isn’t the same sort of thing.

DeMarcus may just be spouting the sort of junk that he always does, but he may still be traumatized by his own experience at Kentucky, where they couldn’t get to the final four. 9 guys from that team are current pros, including 5 who are currently in the NBA (Bledsoe, John Wall, Darius Miller, Patrick Patterson, and Cousins), and all of them presumably believe they were better than the 2010 national champs.

Anyway, aside from being physically strong, Cousins and Zion don’t seem to have a lot in common.

[Pomona]

https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/cbs-sports-eye-on-college-basketball-podcast/id268800565?mt=2#episodeGuid=60be1ab6-1466-11e9-9309-fbce06318b98


Zion Williamson's shoe-busting, knee-spraining spectacle less than a minute into the UNC game was the perfect storm of content creation for national discourse about Zion, Duke, the amateurism model and the NBA. But Parrish and Norlander do their best to cut through the obviousness and get to the things you might not have heard addressed. But also: Parrish got into a Twitter spat with Trae Young (23:00)! The guys also get into Norlander's powerful story about LSU succeeding despite losing a player to murder in the preseason (35:45) and wrap with a preview of six big games (42:05): Virginia-Louisville; Tennessee-LSU; Florida State-UNC; Duke-Syracuse; Kansas-Texas Tech; and Michigan State-Michigan.

[weezie]

Yeah, what is up Cousins derriere? One bitter guy. I'll bet he's a real blast of fun at parties.

[jv001]

Yeah, what is up Cousins derriere? One bitter guy. I'll bet he's a real blast of fun at parties.

Cousins and "Huggie Bear" would be a marriage made in hell(Cheat home). GoDuke!

[left_hook_lacey]

The always classy UNC fan base, mocking a player’s injury.

9105

That is pretty distasteful, even for them. It ranks right up there with the Miami miracle shirts from football a few years ago.

Are they an official partner with the school? Does someone from UNC have to sign off on these for them to be able to sell them? Seems like a desperate attempt at a money grab by the store owners. It's understandable to be proud of the win. You beat the #1 team in the country at their house. Congrats. But making a shirt about it, while at the same time poking fun at the loss of their best player due to injury is just, baffling. It's not a good look at all. Can't wait to get to work today and have my UNC co-worker explain how that is "classy". He's always berating NC State for doing tasteless things, can't wait to hear what he has to say about this.

[HereBeforeCoachK]

Yeah, what is up Cousins derriere? One bitter guy. I'll bet he's a real blast of fun at parties.

He's a multi millionaire in his twenties playing a game......so he's understandably bitter because he never really has had opportunity............/s

[UrinalCake]

Yeah, what is up Cousins derriere? One bitter guy. I'll bet he's a real blast of fun at parties.

I can’t imagine it’s helping UK’s recruiting when one of their former greats describes his experience as BS.

[DevilYouKnow]

Yeah, it never ceases to amaze me how childish, downright mean, and divorced from reality UNC basketball fans can be. When I first moved to Durham in the summer of 2000 I was shocked — SHOCKED — at their pettiness and viciousness. I really and truly was shocked.

I lived in Austin, TX, for 13 years prior and the mean-spiritedness of UNC fans reminded of Texas A&M fans towards the University of Texas. But that was different because A&M clearly had/has a chip on their shoulder about big brother UT Austin. What’s different here is that UNC honestly believes they are a superior university with a superior class of people as compared to Duke. You and I know they could not be more wrong, but they honestly believe it. It drives me crazy.

...and don't forget the surreal irony of the UNC faithful touting "The Carolina Way" and claiming their program is ethically pure while Coach K and Duke is crooked to the core.

[ChillinDuke]

you and rich can take all your sporks and stuff 'em.

Totally reasonable to ask about Baker. And ask and ask and ask. A long as Baker is in uniform for games, there's a chance, however small, that he plays.

Period.

And as long as we live in a universe with asteroids, totally reasonable to fear their impending doom and destruction of the earth at any moment.

- Chillin

[weezie]

The always classy UNC fan base, mocking a player’s injury.

9105


Curse these mouth-breathing, nose-picking, dumbo-eared, bowl-haircut, wankering hole morons.

Utterly beneath contempt. Every single one of them who would revel in the injury of a good young man.

They are vermin. I curse them.

[jipops]

The always classy UNC fan base, mocking a player’s injury.

9105

Seeing as Zion's injury is minor and he'll be back in a few days, I think this is pretty funny. Now if this was a torn ACL or some other career threatening injury then I think the tone would be very different. But in this case, I think it's ok to have thick skin.

[HereBeforeCoachK]

Curse these mouth-breathing, nose-picking, dumbo-eared, bowl-haircut, wankering hole morons.

Utterly beneath contempt. Every single one of them who would revel in the injury of a good young man.

They are vermin. I curse them.

This right here...AMEN. This is why my hatred is really aimed at their fan base, and not Roy or their players (but of course, there are exceptions like Hansbrough and Montross and so on). The Heel fans are mocking Zion's injury - while Roy is praising Zion to the hilt and admitting, or insisting, that of course it was a major factor in the game.

I may not share some of the Roy/player hatred that many have on DBR, but I'll lead the parade on hating on their fans......only Michigan fans are in their league for arrogance.

[fathippo]

Seeing as Zion's injury is minor and he'll be back in a few days, I think this is pretty funny. Now if this was a torn ACL or some other career threatening injury then I think the tone would be very different. But in this case, I think it's ok to have thick skin.

I think it is funny that they are highlighting the fact that they won because of a shoe failure/injury.

[wavedukefan70s]

This right here...AMEN. This is why my hatred is really aimed at their fan base, and not Roy or their players (but of course, there are exceptions like Hansbrough and Montross and so on). The Heel fans are mocking Zion's injury - while Roy is praising Zion to the hilt and admitting, or insisting, that of course it was a major factor in the game.

I may not share some of the Roy/player hatred that many have on DBR, but I'll lead the parade on hating on their fans...only Michigan fans are in their league for arrogance.

The irony .I got away from the unc fans .im training a Michigan fan as I type. You are absolutely correct.hes not as bad but close.
Probably because I have to sign off on him to be certified. Lol