Article on Coach K's retirement plans

[kako]

Great article on Coach K by Dave Glenn. He writes about K's retirement plans, other coaches who coached beyond 70, his relationships, thoughts for the future, etc.

https://theathletic.com/815699/2019/02/13/hes-not-into-pilates-like-boeheim-but-coach-k-at-72-feels-great-and-has-no-plans-to-retire/
(https://theathletic.com/815699/2019/02/13/hes-not-into-pilates-like-boeheim-but-coach-k-at-72-feels-great-and-has-no-plans-to-retire/)

This is the Athletic, it's a paid site. But here are some interesting tidbits:

1. He has no plans for a retirement date. It sounds like he's here at least two more years when he discusses recruiting.
2. He thinks his successor should be someone who played and coached at Duke. So Brey doesn't fit.
3. Michael Savarino, his grandson, will play at Duke next year as a preferred walk-on.
4. He thinks the Duke basketball program is bigger than him, but I think many of us would disagree. Duke basketball is Coach K now. It may not be forever, but it is right now.

9F

[uh_no]

4. He thinks the Duke basketball program is bigger than him, but I think many of us would disagree.

Don't forget that duke was a very strong program before K got here as well...maybe not immediately preceding, but overall.

[OZZIE4DUKE]

Don't forget that duke was a very strong program before K got here as well...maybe not immediately preceding, but overall.
Yes, immediately preceding. Spanarkel, Banks, Dennard and Bender think so too!

[HereBeforeCoachK]

Don't forget that duke was a very strong program before K got here as well...maybe not immediately preceding, but overall.

Yes, Duke was a team with significant heritage pre K....nothing compared to what K has built....going back to Bubas in the 60s and Foster for a while in the late 70s.

In the movie made about the 1966 Texas Western National Championship run, Duke and Kentucky - both in that same Final Four - were referred to I believe as "basketball royalty" even then.

But now, of course, a whole new level.

[AustinDevil]

Yes, immediately preceding. Spanarkel, Banks, Dennard and Bender think so too!

You're not wrong, of course, but Coach K has now coached Duke for nearly 60% of the time that Duke has been a member of the ACC. Add in today's shortened attention spans, and yes, he most definitely is the be-all and end-all of the program right now. Here's hoping for a smooth and successful transition (in 2030?).

[BandAlum83]

Yes, immediately preceding. Spanarkel, Banks, Dennard and Bender think so too!

Mike Gminski has an opinion on that as well.

[Truth&Justise]

3. Michael Savarino, his grandson, will play at Duke next year as a preferred walk-on.

Below are photos of Savarino from the AAU circuit last year, and also from the 2004 NCAA Tournament.

9062

9061

[uh_no]

Below are photos of Savarino from the AAU circuit last year, and also from the 2004 NCAA Tournament.

9062

9061

important questions: do you think he'll continue to help coach decipher emojis?

https://vimeo.com/157049013

[dudog84]

Yes, immediately preceding. Spanarkel, Banks, Dennard and Bender think so too!

Oh great and powerful Oz, how could you forget Gminski?!?!? The curtain has been pulled back!

Edit: BandAlum83 beat me to it.

[-jk]

Don't forget that duke was a very strong program before K got here as well...maybe not immediately preceding, but overall.

I've said it before: K's been awesome! He's taken us all the way from 5th NCAA all time wins to 4th! Well, that and a few banners...

We were very good before, but better with him. Hoping he really loves coaching his grandkid, and has several more queued up!

-jk

[wsb3]

Bob Verga, Jeff Mullins, Jack Marin, Steve Vacendak.. I don't recall watching Art Heyman play..(Slightly before my childhood memories)

[Ian]

Don't forget that duke was a very strong program before K got here as well...maybe not immediately preceding, but overall.

Saying Duke was a very strong program before K got here is like saying New England was a very strong football franchise before Bill Belichick became their head coach. Sure there were some great moments and seasons before K. But the comparison of before and since is night and day.

[hallcity]

My recollection is that when Coach K arrived at Duke that Duke was already number 5 on the list of schools with most basketball wins. We've since passed St. John's. So, yes, even though we've done phenomenally well since he arrived, Duke was already a successful program before Coach K arrived.

[HereBeforeCoachK]

Saying Duke was a very strong program before K got here is like saying New England was a very strong football franchise before Bill Belichick became their head coach. Sure there were some great moments and seasons before K. But the comparison of before and since is night and day.

A case can be made that K is bigger than the Duke program....but WADR....the New England analogy doesn't quite fly. Duke was already part of a burgeoning hotbed area of hoops....Frank McGuire, Everett Case......The Dixie Classic....Norm Sloan, Dean, the 8 team ACC.....Duke had won more games than almost any other school.... Even when Bill Foster's first great Duke team - 78 - reached the Final Four, Sports Illustrated talked about a program who's four letter name meant almost as much as the four letters U C L A. (in 78 those meant a lot).

Yes, it's night and day now....but so is college hoops in general. What I think K realizes is that if he is regarded as bigger than the program, then Duke is doomed to second fiddle to the Cheats (in that regard) the second he retires.

[kako]

Saying Duke was a very strong program before K got here is like saying New England was a very strong football franchise before Bill Belichick became their head coach. Sure there were some great moments and seasons before K. But the comparison of before and since is night and day.

My point exactly. I grew up watching Tate Armstrong, then the '78 team. Duke became my school of choice, in no small part due to those teams. Of course, I know about Bubas and his very successful years, including the FFs. I don't take anything away from those teams. In fact, my all-time Duke team would have to include (at least) Heyman. But K is Duke basketball now, I don't believe there's a real question about this. He may not be forever, but he is now what makes Duke basketball what it is. And case in point, does anyone think that Duke would have come back last night if K wasn't on the bench? The players executed, but the belief was K's. As the man said, he doesn't coach losers. He coaches Duke winners.

9F

[uh_no]

Saying Duke was a very strong program before K got here is like saying New England was a very strong football franchise before Bill Belichick became their head coach. Sure there were some great moments and seasons before K. But the comparison of before and since is night and day.


My recollection is that when Coach K arrived at Duke that Duke was already number 5 on the list of schools with most basketball wins. We've since passed St. John's. So, yes, even though we've done phenomenally well since he arrived, Duke was already a successful program before Coach K arrived.

duke was one of the top programs in the country before K showed up. they had 4 final fours in the prior what, 15 years? and as hallcity points out, were near the top of all time wins. The patriots weren't top 5 of anything before brady and belichek showed up.

[Ian]

Patriots joined the NFL in 1971, in the 29 years they had until Belichick became the coach, they made the playoffs 9 times and had 2 Superbowl appearances and no titles
Duke joined the ACC in 1953, in the 27 seasons before K arrived Duke had 8 NCAA appearances and 2 championship game appearances and no titles.

Looks pretty comparable to me.

[kako]

What I think K realizes is that if he is regarded as bigger than the program, then Duke is doomed to second fiddle to the Cheats (in that regard) the second he retires.

It's going to be extremely hard to follow a legend. Lots of programs are now failing (Arizona, UNLV, Oklahoma State, IU, etc.). UCLA has been chasing Wooden for 40 years. UK has had the good and bad since Rupp. UNC failed at first with Doh. But cheating aside, getting Ol' Roy was able to continue the program. So it will be all about K (and it really must be K) deciding who will take the reigns once he does retire (do you really want Vincent Price making basketball decisions???). Again, he *is* Duke basketball, whether he wants to admit it or not.


9F

[Bluedog]

Shockingly, I don't think I've seen it mentioned anywhere on this site, but Coach K is 72 years old today. Happy birthday coach! I'm sure that victory last night was a sweet gift.

[uh_no]

Patriots joined the NFL in 1971, in the 29 years they had until Belichick became the coach, they made the playoffs 9 times and had 2 Superbowl appearances and no titles
Duke joined the ACC in 1953, in the 27 seasons before K arrived Duke had 8 NCAA appearances and 2 championship game appearances and no titles.

Looks pretty comparable to me.

there are what 30 teams in the NFL and 350 teams in D1? I don't know how many there were in the 60's and 70's...but i venture it was more than 30.

[CrazyNotCrazie]

Hopefully grandson Michael plays for Duke for 4 years, works as an assistant for another 5+ years, then takes over for grandpa Mike around 2030?

[-jk]

Hopefully grandson Michael plays for Duke for 4 years, works as an assistant for another 5+ years, then takes over for grandpa Mike around 2030?

That could work, too!

-jk

[szstark]

4. He thinks the Duke basketball program is bigger than him, but I think many of us would disagree. Duke basketball is Coach K now. It may not be forever, but it is right now.

9F

K thinks the program is bigger than him; history demonstrates the program is bigger than him - why is this even a discussion?

[dukebsbll14]

2. He thinks his successor should be someone who played and coached at Duke.


This article misspelled Brad Stevens

[HereBeforeCoachK]

It's going to be extremely hard to follow a legend.
9F

True, but that's a related, yet different topic.

[HereBeforeCoachK]

Patriots joined the NFL in 1971, in the 29 years they had until Belichick became the coach, they made the playoffs 9 times and had 2 Superbowl appearances and no titles
Duke joined the ACC in 1953, in the 27 seasons before K arrived Duke had 8 NCAA appearances and 2 championship game appearances and no titles.

Looks pretty comparable to me.

You need to look closer. Very bad analogy. Apples and oranges....(for the reasons another poster explained)

[YmoBeThere]

I played on and coached IM teams while I was there. So I guess that makes me eligible. :D

[sagegrouse]

Saying Duke was a very strong program before K got here is like saying New England was a very strong football franchise before Bill Belichick became their head coach. Sure there were some great moments and seasons before K. But the comparison of before and since is night and day.

I dunno, dude! I went to every home game for four years plus NCAA regionals, and we lost only one game.

[JetpackJesus]

Patriots joined the NFL in 1971, in the 29 years they had until Belichick became the coach, they made the playoffs 9 times and had 2 Superbowl appearances and no titles
Duke joined the ACC in 1953, in the 27 seasons before K arrived Duke had 8 NCAA appearances and 2 championship game appearances and no titles.

Looks pretty comparable to me.

Only one team per conference could make the NCAA Tournament until 1975 when the field expanded to 32 teams. Put another way, before 1975, you could finish the season with one loss as an ACC school and miss the NCAA Tournament if that one loss happened during the ACC Tournament.

[sagegrouse]

there are what 30 teams in the NFL and 350 teams in D1? I don't know how many there were in the 60's and 70's...but i venture it was more than 30.

In the views of some historians, there were only about 30 teams that took basketball VERY seriously 50+ years ago. Although Jim or someone has disagreed with this assertion, I think it is pretty accurate -- the Big Four in the ACC, some Eastern teams we don't hear about much any more -- the Bonnies, LaSalle, St. Joe's, NYU plus Syracuse and others. A few in the Big Ten, plus Cincy and WVa and sometimes Notre Dame. Don't forget Ky and Miss. State. Then the Missouri Valley, Big Eight complex -- Wichita State, Kansas State, Kansas, Bradley. But only four out West -- UCLA, USC, Cal and Oregon State.

Today there are at least 100 with the ambition and resources to compete.

Still, Duke was a successful member of this smaller group.

[Steven43]

If the dream of Brad Stevens never was realistic, who then are the top Duke guys in contention? Quin? Bobby? Steve? Maybe Chris? Maybe Jeff? Personally, I’m starting to believe Quin should be at the head of the line. I think that would be a great hire.

[Acymetric]

If the dream of Brad Stevens never was realistic, who then are the top Duke guys in contention? Quin? Bobby? Steve? Maybe Chris? Maybe Jeff? Personally, I’m starting to believe Quin should be at the head of the line. I think that would be a great hire.

Who was dreaming of Brad Stevens?

[uh_no]

Who was dreaming of Brad Stevens?

everyone who watched a guy running a clean program take teams to back to back championship games

[Acymetric]

everyone who watched a guy running a clean program take teams to back to back championship games

That was a different age as far as college basketball is concerned. I think he is much better suited to mid-major programs where peaks and valleys are accepted, or the NBA where elite talent is a given (either of which allow his knowledge of the game to shine). I don't think he would be well suited for Duke, because there would be too many down years when the talent wasn't there.

[heyman25]

Bob Verga, Jeff Mullins, Jack Marin, Steve Vacendak.. I don't recall watching Art Heyman play..(Slightly before my childhood memories)
I met Art Heyman with my brothers at Beth El Synagogue near East Campus. He was unique. Duke was lucky Vic Bubas was in the right place at the right time. He was going to go to UNC with his Long Island friend Larry Brown,but his stepfather disliked Frank McGuire. Senior day stat against Billy Cunningham and UNC 40 points 24 rebounds. They lost to Loyola Chicago (remember their nun fan) in the Final 4 semnifinals 1963. Loyola won the championship against Cincinatti. Heman was named National Player of the Year. He was drafted by NY Knicks. He was a little too temperamental for his own good. He played with the legendary Connie Hawkins on a Pittsburgh ABA team and was fairly successful there.

[heyman25]

Cool Read on the legendary ABA Pittsburg Pipers. Steve Vacendak also played for them. Art Heyman and Connie Hawkins were the stars.https://triblive.com/sports/nationworldsports/13523288-74/fifty-years-after-their-aba-title-pittsburgh-pipers-still-looking-for-recognition

[beachboy]

Great article on Coach K by Dave Glenn. He writes about K's retirement plans, other coaches who coached beyond 70, his relationships, thoughts for the future, etc.

https://theathletic.com/815699/2019/02/13/hes-not-into-pilates-like-boeheim-but-coach-k-at-72-feels-great-and-has-no-plans-to-retire/
(https://theathletic.com/815699/2019/02/13/hes-not-into-pilates-like-boeheim-but-coach-k-at-72-feels-great-and-has-no-plans-to-retire/)

This is the Athletic, it's a paid site. But here are some interesting tidbits:

1. He has no plans for a retirement date. It sounds like he's here at least two more years when he discusses recruiting.
2. He thinks his successor should be someone who played and coached at Duke. So Brey doesn't fit.
3. Michael Savarino, his grandson, will play at Duke next year as a preferred walk-on.
4. He thinks the Duke basketball program is bigger than him, but I think many of us would disagree. Duke basketball is Coach K now. It may not be forever, but it is right now.

coached at Duke...that broke my heart...….sorry Bobby

[JasonEvans]

coached at Duke...that broke my heart...….sorry Bobby

Yeah, that was my immediate takeaway... Bobby Hurley off the list.

Of course, what really matters is that it seems like K is still several years away from retirement... that is what matters to me.

[HereBeforeCoachK]

Yeah, that was my immediate takeaway... Bobby Hurley off the list.

Of course, what really matters is that it seems like K is still several years away from retirement... that is what matters to me.

...so when was it that Brad Stevens coached at Duke??? I think I remember vaguely.....


(work with me here)

[MCFinARL]

Bob Verga, Jeff Mullins, Jack Marin, Steve Vacendak.. I don't recall watching Art Heyman play..(Slightly before my childhood memories)

And Dick Groat, if we are going to the days before childhood memories (although I have childhood memories of seeing Groat play baseball with the Pirates, I wasn't following college basketball--or much of anything--when he was playing at Duke).

[91_92_01_10_15]

This is the Athletic, it's a paid site.

If you download their app, you can read the article without subscribing.

[campered]

My point exactly. I grew up watching Tate Armstrong, then the '78 team. Duke became my school of choice, in no small part due to those teams. Of course, I know about Bubas and his very successful years, including the FFs. I don't take anything away from those teams. In fact, my all-time Duke team would have to include (at least) Heyman. But K is Duke basketball now, I don't believe there's a real question about this. He may not be forever, but he is now what makes Duke basketball what it is. And case in point, does anyone think that Duke would have come back last night if K wasn't on the bench? The players executed, but the belief was K's. As the man said, he doesn't coach losers. He coaches Duke winners.

9FGlad you brought him up! Oh man, what a player Tate Armstrong was! Duke had a glorious season going, undefeated I think, til at Virginia, he fell while driving to the basket and broke his wrist. The season went down hill after that. Armstrong was one of many stars of course who have played before K.

[CrazyNotCrazie]

Yeah, that was my immediate takeaway... Bobby Hurley off the list.

Of course, what really matters is that it seems like K is still several years away from retirement... that is what matters to me.

If Coach K sticks around long enough, some of the first generation of his former players (Dawkins, Amaker, and Snyder) who might be candidates could start to age out of contention. As Coach K and others are proving, coaches are sticking around longer now, but I'm not sure if Duke would want to hire someone who is pushing 60 (which they will be if K sticks around).

It is amazing to think how ancient Bill Guthridge seemed when he took over at UNC and he was only 60 - I thought this is just because I was 20 years younger then but looking back at pictures he still looks really old. K, Izzo, and dare I say Roy all look much younger despite being well over 60, and Calipari just turned 60 this week.

[HereBeforeCoachK]

everyone who watched a guy running a clean program take teams to back to back championship games

From what I can tell, there are two guys disussed (one on the tree, one not) that seem to get absolute rave reviews by people close to their program. Quin Snyder and Brad Stevens. Both now in the NBA. Both are long shots, but man can both coach apparently.

I read a long piece, can't remember from what source, about Snyder's redemption story - with quotes from people (players, media, other coaches) along the way. And I remember when Quin was an assistant at Duke, and the local talk shows actually talked college sports, that the reviews were the same. Adam Gold even joked that it was a rumor that K was the head coach. The comments are all the same: Apparently the dude is just brilliant, and can really relate to players, and knows the game.

But there's the baggage...and of course, he may be fully an NBA guy now.

And the commentary about Steven's ability is more well known. Smart. Players love him. He wins, at any level. Will he right the ship in Boston, and still be the NBA guy? Or will the whole thing with the players running the NBA teams through social media and so on sour him to the NBA? Long shot, but hey, we have a few years to chat about it.....

[HereBeforeCoachK]

Glad you brought him up! Oh man, what a player Tate Armstrong was! Duke had a glorious season going, undefeated I think, til at Virginia, he fell while driving to the basket and broke his wrist. The season went down hill after that. Armstrong was one of many stars of course who have played before K.

Love Tate....those teams with him and Willie Hodge....Mr. Inconsistent.....could be dangerous.

[Matches]

If the dream of Brad Stevens never was realistic, who then are the top Duke guys in contention? Quin? Bobby? Steve? Maybe Chris? Maybe Jeff? Personally, I’m starting to believe Quin should be at the head of the line. I think that would be a great hire.

So with those criteria, is this the complete list (to date)?

Dawkins
Amaker
Snyder
James
Wojo
Collins
Capel
Smith
C-Well
Scheyer
Bilas

[CrazyNotCrazie]

So with those criteria, is this the complete list (to date)?

Dawkins
Amaker
Snyder
James
Wojo
Collins
Capel
Smith
C-Well
Scheyer
Bilas

Highly unlikely but for the sake of thoroughness, David Henderson is also on the list. I'm not sure what he is doing now but I don't think he has coached in over 10 years since leaving Delaware. But he did both play and coach at Duke under K plus has head coaching experience.

[devildeac]

Who was dreaming of Brad Stevens?

Weezie, right after her Handsome Tony dream. ;):o.

[chrishoke]

I met Art Heyman with my brothers at Beth El Synagogue near East Campus. He was unique. Duke was lucky Vic Bubas was in the right place at the right time. He was going to go to UNC with his Long Island friend Larry Brown,but his stepfather disliked Frank McGuire. Senior day stat against Billy Cunningham and UNC 40 points 24 rebounds. They lost to Loyola Chicago (remember their nun fan) in the Final 4 semnifinals 1963. Loyola won the championship against Cincinatti. Heman was named National Player of the Year. He was drafted by NY Knicks. He was a little too temperamental for his own good. He played with the legendary Connie Hawkins on a Pittsburgh ABA team and was fairly successful there.

I was at that great senior day for Heyman and still have the newspaper write ups of ther gme. Larry Brown was also on that cheater team. Great memories.
In that 1963 final four, Heyman was the first and only player to lose in the semifinals and still be named the MVP.

Another pre K player that I don't think has been mentioned - Gene Banks, alias Tinkerbell.

[hallcity]

So with those criteria, is this the complete list (to date)?

Dawkins
Amaker
Snyder
James
Wojo
Collins
Capel
Smith
C-Well
Scheyer
Bilas

Add Hurley

[jv001]

Add Hurley

Has Bobby been on the Duke staff? Was Tony Lang ever on the coaching staff? GoDuke!

[Jeffrey]

Add Hurley

When did he coach at Duke?

[Truth&Justise]

So with those criteria, is this the complete list (to date)?

Dawkins
Amaker
Snyder
James
Wojo
Collins
Capel
Smith
C-Well
Scheyer
Bilas


Add Hurley


Has Bobby been on the Duke staff? Was Tony Lang ever on the coaching staff? GoDuke!

Just to point out, when Coach K says "He thinks his successor should be someone who played and coached at Duke," that doesn't mean it's set in stone. I have to imagine Bobby Hurley will be considered.

[Jeffrey]

Life is dynamic and a lot will occur before K retires. Most DBR posters thought I was crazy in '08 but I'm still sticking with my Wojo prediction. I suspect many DBR posters have changed their Dawkins prediction, which was most common in '08.

[Matches]

Just to point out, when Coach K says "He thinks his successor should be someone who played and coached at Duke," that doesn't mean it's set in stone. I have to imagine Bobby Hurley will be considered.

Sure, could be. I was just trying to list the guys who met the criteria K laid out. Henderson was a good catch.

[devildeac]

Shocked, simply shocked that no one here has mentioned/referenced this yet WRT K's retirement plans:


https://forums.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showthread.php?41115-Investment-Thread

:o

[brevity]

Add Hurley


When did he coach at Duke?

1989-1993.

You all like to romanticize the position of point guard as the “coach on the floor”. Why stop now?

[COYS]

I might be in the minority with this opinion, but even though Coach K has absolutely earned the right to have a say in who replaces him, I actually wish his public comments didn't set conditions for the next coach. We've known for a long time that K's replacement is most likely to come from his coaching tree. But I don't really think there's any reason to come out and say it, outright. There's also a looooooong track record of legendary coaches handpicking their successors and having that choice be poor. I'd much prefer that the athletic department have the freedom to interview candidates from both inside and outside the program, even if it is still almost certain that the ultimate replacement will come from someone "in the family."

All of that being said, if any coach is capable of doing a good job picking his/her replacement, it's probably Coach K. Aside from all of his other fantastic qualities, it is rare that a coach who has been around as long as Coach K can manage to adapt and stay on the cutting edge throughout his career. Many coaches are so set in their ways that their replacement ends up employing the same tactics as the old coach, but usually not as well (either because the coach isn't as good or because the tactics have become obsolete). As an Atlanta Braves fan, I really wish Bobby Cox had less influence on managerial choices as I would prefer a manager who can take full advantage of baseball's continuing data revolution. And a baseball manager has much less influence on the outcome of games than a basketball coach.

The good thing is, I don't think this issue is as much of a concern with Coach K because he has been so adaptable throughout his career. One could make an argument that he's evolved as a tactician and coach more in the past 10-12 years than he did in the rest of his time at Duke. Duke fans are incredibly lucky. And I hope that adaptability leaves the door open to finding a replacement who is free to put his (or . . . her, hey, why not?) stamp on the program.

[jv001]

Just to point out, when Coach K says "He thinks his successor should be someone who played and coached at Duke," that doesn't mean it's set in stone. I have to imagine Bobby Hurley will be considered.

I agree it's not set in stone but I was replying regarding Matches post. Bobby would have to be considered for Coach's replacement. The entire list is a good one and all are deserving at least some consideration. Then there are others that have NBA experience; Brand, Grant, Christian, etc. GoDuke!

[Troublemaker]

The program is bigger than Coach K, but if Duke returns to historic pre-K levels of success, I think most fans will be unhappy and coaches will get fired. I think most people will want K levels of success to continue, unfortunately for future Duke coaches.

[jv001]

The program is bigger than Coach K, but if Duke returns to historic pre-K levels of success, I think most fans will be unhappy and coaches will get fired. I think most people will want K levels of success to continue, unfortunately for future Duke coaches.

Agree most Duke fans will be disappointed for a while but I would take the hey-days of Coach Bubas teams in a heartbeat though. Those were some great teams. Too bad Coach Bubas retired as early as he did. GoDuke!

[CrazyNotCrazie]

As much as it is very clear that K will likely have a significant role in naming his replacement, the role of the AD and to a lesser extent the president is also important. Since President Price is very new to the university, as much as I want K to stick around forever, there is a very good chance that Price will be the president when the change occurs. On the other hand, Kevin White is just a few years younger than K, so it will be interesting to see who goes first. I have tremendous faith in White and his input on this decision would definitely be greatly valued, though there are others who might argue that it is unfair to a new AD to have a basketball coach who was just chosen by an outgoing AD (kind of like GM/Coach relationships in the NFL).

[Jeffrey]

The program is bigger than Coach K, but if Duke returns to historic pre-K levels of success, I think most fans will be unhappy and coaches will get fired. I think most people will want K levels of success to continue, unfortunately for future Duke coaches.

Agreed, it would be a very risky career decision.

[luvdahops]

Life is dynamic and a lot will occur before K retires. Most DBR posters thought I was crazy in '08 but I'm still sticking with my Wojo prediction. I suspect many DBR posters have changed their Dawkins prediction, which was most common in '08.

Wojo is definitely a strong bet and leading contender. He is arguably doing the best among K's proteges from an overall program standpoint at the moment. And I think he may be the one with the closest long-term relationship with K (no inside knowledge there, just an observation).

[Troublemaker]

If the dream of Brad Stevens never was realistic, who then are the top Duke guys in contention? Quin? Bobby? Steve? Maybe Chris? Maybe Jeff? Personally, I’m starting to believe Quin should be at the head of the line. I think that would be a great hire.


From what I can tell, there are two guys disussed (one on the tree, one not) that seem to get absolute rave reviews by people close to their program. Quin Snyder and Brad Stevens. Both now in the NBA. Both are long shots, but man can both coach apparently.

I read a long piece, can't remember from what source, about Snyder's redemption story - with quotes from people (players, media, other coaches) along the way. And I remember when Quin was an assistant at Duke, and the local talk shows actually talked college sports, that the reviews were the same. Adam Gold even joked that it was a rumor that K was the head coach. The comments are all the same: Apparently the dude is just brilliant, and can really relate to players, and knows the game.

But there's the baggage...and of course, he may be fully an NBA guy now.

And the commentary about Steven's ability is more well known. Smart. Players love him. He wins, at any level. Will he right the ship in Boston, and still be the NBA guy? Or will the whole thing with the players running the NBA teams through social media and so on sour him to the NBA? Long shot, but hey, we have a few years to chat about it...

Quin is more a K+2 candidate than a K+1 candidate (and it's possible that Quin will never return to college). Rudy Gobert and Donovan Mitchell are still young, and Quin is only in his 5th season coaching the Jazz. Add 7 years to that (two more years for K and five years for K +1, for example), and it becomes more reasonable. NBA coaches (and I think professional coaches) rarely stay in one place over a decade -- there's a tendency to wear out your welcome and for players to start to tune you out. Of course, an NBA championship coming to Salt Lake City would change the equation, but that's just so hard to do.

Anyway, K +1 will be Jeff Capel. My official prediction.

[uh_no]

I might be in the minority with this opinion, but even though Coach K has absolutely earned the right to have a say in who replaces him, I actually wish his public comments didn't set conditions for the next coach. We've known for a long time that K's replacement is most likely to come from his coaching tree. But I don't really think there's any reason to come out and say it, outright. There's also a looooooong track record of legendary coaches handpicking their successors and having that choice be poor. m.

cough cough Kevin Ollie Dean Smith

[Jeffrey]

Quin is more a K+2 candidate than a K+1 candidate (and it's possible that Quin will never return to college).

Quin is a great fit for the NBA game. I seriously doubt he has any true desire to coach at the college level again.

[HereBeforeCoachK]

Quin is more a K+2 candidate than a K+1 candidate (and it's possible that Quin will never return to college). Rudy Gobert and Donovan Mitchell are still young, and Quin is only in his 5th season coaching the Jazz. Add 7 years to that (two more years for K and five years for K +1, for example), and it becomes more reasonable. NBA coaches (and I think professional coaches) rarely stay in one place over a decade -- there's a tendency to wear out your welcome and for players to start to tune you out. Of course, an NBA championship coming to Salt Lake City would change the equation, but that's just so hard to do.

Anyway, K +1 will be Jeff Capel. My official prediction.

That is a very reasonable analysis. K+2 will likely be the better gig, just going by history of other coach retirements. Of course, K+2 might well open up the field, for say, Stevens? And by then, we'll know if Wojo continued his success at Marquette (or elsewhere) and if Collins got NW back and so on...and keep an eye on Jon Scheyer too. Whenever K +2 is, I would bet Scheyer is head coach somewhere. Maybe some of the others ton the staff now as well.

Of course, sitting here today, we have an amazing present set of circumstances that are one of a kind, and the challenge is to fully appreciate this year...like drinking out of a fire hydrant.

[mattman91]

Wojo is definitely a strong bet and leading contender. He is arguably doing the best among K's proteges from an overall program standpoint at the moment. And I think he may be the one with the closest long-term relationship with K (no inside knowledge there, just an observation).

And he's Polish :cool:

[CameronBornAndBred]

It's the offseason, right? That must be why this thread is making its annual appearance. I'm still loving that championship speech that Zion gave!


Wojo is definitely a strong bet and leading contender. He is arguably doing the best among K's proteges from an overall program standpoint at the moment. And I think he may be the one with the closest long-term relationship with K (no inside knowledge there, just an observation).



Anyway, K +1 will be Jeff Capel. My official prediction.

Thankfully we'll have a few more years for Capel to show what he can do with a program that is floundering. Wojo has shown what he can do; he has brought Marquette back to being a legitimate FF contender. If Capel turns Pitt around, those two would have to be the leading contenders, I think. Who knows, maybe Collins does more at Northwestern and is in the conversation, too, but he and Wojo were hired the same year and where they are each at now is definitively noticeable.
Coaching is part of the equation, but so is recruiting. To get his team where they are now, Wojo has proven he can recruit the guys to get them to the next level. Capel was a great recruiter at Duke, so I won't be surprised when he makes guys believe in what he can accomplish as well.
Hopefully when the time does come and the interviews begin, there won't be any animosity from folks for not getting the job. Lots of great candidates, but only one seat will be open.

[MChambers]

Thankfully we'll have a few more years for Capel to show what he can do with a program that is floundering. Wojo has shown what he can do; he has brought Marquette back to being a legitimate FF contender. If Capel turns Pitt around, those two would have to be the leading contenders, I think. Who knows, maybe Collins does more at Northwestern and is in the conversation, too, but he and Wojo were hired the same year and where they are each at now is definitively noticeable.
Coaching is part of the equation, but so is recruiting. To get his team where they are now, Wojo has proven he can recruit the guys to get them to the next level. Capel was a great recruiter at Duke, so I won't be surprised when he makes guys believe in what he can accomplish as well.
Hopefully when the time does come and the interviews begin, there won't be any animosity from folks for not getting the job. Lots of great candidates, but only one seat will be open.

Collins would have to have quite a turnaround. After a great season in 2016-17, NU has really gone downhill and doesn't look likely to have a strong team next year. I'm quite surprised how quickly things have gone south for Collins.

[HereBeforeCoachK]

Collins would have to have quite a turnaround. After a great season in 2016-17, NU has really gone downhill and doesn't look likely to have a strong team next year. I'm quite surprised how quickly things have gone south for Collins.

That is, however, somewhat an analogy to K's early years at Duke. Not a perfect analogy by any means, but something to consider.

[wsb3]

Agree most Duke fans will be disappointed for a while but I would take the hey-days of Coach Bubas teams in a heartbeat though. Those were some great teams. Too bad Coach Bubas retired as early as he did. GoDuke!

And if Verga would not have been sick there might have been even more during the Bubas era.

[wsb3]

Collins would have to have quite a turnaround. After a great season in 2016-17, NU has really gone downhill and doesn't look likely to have a strong team next year. I'm quite surprised how quickly things have gone south for Collins.

And if asked five years ago I would have picked Collins as the likely successor.. Today...not so sure...

[HereBeforeCoachK]

And if Verga would not have been sick there might have been even more during the Bubas era.

Clearly...very good chance Duke beats UCLA and keeps Wooden's first off the boards. Who knows what might've happened then. Bubas might've been Wooden. Then we likely wouldn't have K...so humbling when you think about close calls that changed history...

If Verga doesn't get sick on Natty day
If Goose Givens doesn't have his fantasy island lifetime game in 78
If K had taken Iowa State job while waiting for Duke...
If Hurley misses the 3 versus Vegas
If Laettner misses anything against Kentucky
If Lang had not cut his fingernails...(metaphorical)
If L'ville's shot in 86 had at least touched the rim...
If the tuck rule hadn't been invented...
If I hadn't chosen TGIFriday's the night I met my future wife...

...and on and on...scary, humbling...

[Jeffrey]

Bubas might've been Wooden.

Please, tell us another one!

[Indoor66]

Clearly...very good chance Duke beats UCLA and keeps Wooden's first off the boards. Who knows what might've happened then. Bubas might've been Wooden. Then we likely wouldn't have K...so humbling when you think about close calls that changed history...

If Verga doesn't get sick on Natty day
If Goose Givens doesn't have his fantasy island lifetime game in 78
If K had taken Iowa State job while waiting for Duke...
If Hurley misses the 3 versus Vegas
If Laettner misses anything against Kentucky
If Lang had not cut his fingernails...(metaphorical)
If L'ville's shot in 86 had at least touched the rim...
If the tuck rule hadn't been invented...
If I hadn't chosen TGIFriday's the night I met my future wife...

...and on and on...scary, humbling...

I like your post, but Verga came to the Varsity 3 years after the UCLA game you reference. His illness was in the 1966 final 4.

[HereBeforeCoachK]

Please, tell us another one!

That's pretty snarky given that I was speaking hypothetically......and speaking rhetorically and not necessarily literally - but since you asked, here's the scenario:
In 66, the Wooden era had not really kicked off (they had one Natty I think...) and Duke was kind of a regular in the FF.
That means at this point, Bubas / Duke are considered close to the level of Wooden/UCLA.

UCLA was not at this FF, Duke played Kentucky in the semis.....and with Verga, there is every reason to believe Duke might've won the game. They only lost by 4 without him. Then of course Duke would've run up against history and Texas Western, but setting the historical aspects aside and just thinking Duke for a moment, there's certainly a great chance Duke wins that Natty, elevating them to the current status of UCLA.

Then does Bubas retire? Does Duke stay the equal of UCLA? Who knows, but as a conversation piece, it's not absurd.

[SoCalDukeFan]

If Coach K wants to pick his successor, fine with me if it is ok with Kevin White et al. I would trust him to make the best choice for Duke.

I doubted his idea of coaching 3 Olympic teams, thought it took him away from recruiting and Duke preparation. I was wrong. Many on this board have doubted this and that, and usually they have been proven wrong.

There is probably no good model for replacing the GOAT at a program but I will trust Coach K to set help the standard when he does retire.


SoCal

[HereBeforeCoachK]

I like your post, but Verga came to the Varsity 3 years after the UCLA game you reference. His illness was in the 1966 final 4.

Yes I meant had he not gotten sick before the Kentucky game in 66...you be right sir.
In 64, I think it was Mullins in Jim Sumner's book who said they put so much into getting ready to beat (I think Michigan) in the semis that they didn't have anything left for UCLA...in those days, there was no day between the semis and the Finals.

[beachboy]

If Coach K wants to pick his successor, fine with me if it is ok with Kevin White et al. I would trust him to make the best choice for Duke.

I doubted his idea of coaching 3 Olympic teams, thought it took him away from recruiting and Duke preparation. I was wrong. Many on this board have doubted this and that, and usually they have been proven wrong.

There is probably no good model for replacing the GOAT at a program but I will trust Coach K to set help the standard when he does retire.


don't care who he picks as long as he is a short PG from NJ

[Jeffrey]

That's pretty snarky given that I was speaking hypothetically...and speaking rhetorically and not necessarily literally - but since you asked, here's the scenario:
In 66, the Wooden era had not really kicked off (they had one Natty I think...) and Duke was kind of a regular in the FF.
That means at this point, Bubas / Duke are considered close to the level of Wooden/UCLA.

UCLA was not at this FF, Duke played Kentucky in the semis...and with Verga, there is every reason to believe Duke might've won the game. They only lost by 4 without him. Then of course Duke would've run up against history and Texas Western, but setting the historical aspects aside and just thinking Duke for a moment, there's certainly a great chance Duke wins that Natty, elevating them to the current status of UCLA.

Then does Bubas retire? Does Duke stay the equal of UCLA? Who knows, but as a conversation piece, it's not absurd.

Sorry, not trying to be snarky. I thought it was more than a stretch. IMO, Wooden and K are the two greatest college basketball coaches. I think there's a lot more separating those two, from all others, than someone's player getting sick and missing a game.

IIRC, in '66 Wooden had already won 2 titles and had Lew Alcindor on the freshman team.

[arnie]

So with those criteria, is this the complete list (to date)?

Dawkins
Amaker
Snyder
James
Wojo
Collins
Capel
Smith
C-Well
Scheyer
Bilas

We can all pray the last name will not be considered. NCAA death penalty for Duke once he pays his players what they’re worth.😀

[uh_no]

We can all pray the last name will not be considered. NCAA death penalty for Duke once he pays his players what they’re worth.😀

Picture this: halftime against UNC with duke down. Bilas comes into the locker-room and says "you guys are a good and talented team, but UNC has that extra something. I'm going with UNC tonight."

[simplyluvin]

So with those criteria, is this the complete list (to date)?

Dawkins
Amaker
Snyder
James
Wojo
Collins
Capel
Smith
C-Well
Scheyer
Bilas

Brad Stevens would be my dream coach too. If I had to pick from this list, Snyder and Wojo are the best options based on recent performance. But notwithstanding Coach K's stated criteria, I feel more and more as the years go on that another marquee coach needs to be brought in, probably from the outside, and it will likely be a restoration job after someone on the list above doesn't pan out. Consider what happened to the Cheats after Dean Smith retired...Guthridge did have two FF but barely kept the ship afloat, they tried to pull Roy out of Kansas and failed, and then lived through the nightmare Doherty years. Another analogy: my wife went to USC during the Pete Carroll years, and they're still recovering from multiple attempts to duplicate his success from his coaching tree.

[Steven43]

Picture this: halftime against UNC with duke down. Bilas comes into the locker-room and says "you guys are a good and talented team, but UNC has that extra something. I'm going with UNC tonight."

Classic

[Dukehk]

An interesting case study to look at would be Manchester United. When their lengendary manager of 25+ years, Sir Alex Ferguson, retired from the club they made a real hash of their succession planning.

Firstly, they missed out on a lot of the top managers in the game. Nobody wanted to be the first person to take on the poisoned chalice of replicating decades of succsss while being under a microscope. So they eventually appointed someone who was “similar” in the sense that David Moyes was also Scottish and has coached at a smaller club for many years with some success. What a major decision they got wrong and he was sacked in less than 1 year as his mentality and ability just weren’t at the top level or adequate for one of the biggest teams in the world.

Then they went the route of appointing two well known and reputable managers. Both had a bit of succsss but ultimately failed due to their philosophy’s being very different from what the club traditionally stood for, attacking and entertaining football. Both those coaches were rather defensive and conservative in their approach which eventually caused their downfall.

Now they have a caretaker manager at the helm. Someone who comes from Sir Alex’s coaching tree and also was a legendary player. Success has been coming back to the team under his tutelage and a big reason Is that he understands the history and ethos of the club.

However, it’s definately a warning and very interesting case study on the perils of replacing a lengendary coach who embodies the institution. Duke needs to learn from these cases and start succession planning years beforehand if they don’t want to spend years trying to get back to the top level.

[AustinDevil]

An interesting case study to look at would be Manchester United. When their lengendary manager of 25+ years, Sir Alex Ferguson, retired from the club they made a real hash of their succession planning.

Firstly, they missed out on a lot of the top managers in the game. Nobody wanted to be the first person to take on the poisoned chalice of replicating decades of succsss while being under a microscope. So they eventually appointed someone who was “similar” in the sense that David Moyes was also Scottish and has coached at a smaller club for many years with some success. What a major decision they got wrong and he was sacked in less than 1 year as his mentality and ability just weren’t at the top level or adequate for one of the biggest teams in the world.

Then they went the route of appointing two well known and reputable managers. Both had a bit of succsss but ultimately failed due to their philosophy’s being very different from what the club traditionally stood for, attacking and entertaining football. Both those coaches were rather defensive and conservative in their approach which eventually caused their downfall.

Now they have a caretaker manager at the helm. Someone who comes from Sir Alex’s coaching tree and also was a legendary player. Success has been coming back to the team under his tutelage and a big reason Is that he understands the history and ethos of the club.

However, it’s definately a warning and very interesting case study on the perils of replacing a lengendary coach who embodies the institution. Duke needs to learn from these cases and start succession planning years beforehand if they don’t want to spend years trying to get back to the top level.

Excellent points, and couldn't happen to a nicer bunch. I do still miss LvG quotes; never did find out what a Queens Park Raisin is!

[revmel53]

I'd love to see Brad Stevens at the helm. I mentioned it to him in his office a couple of years ago, and he said he thought K's job was safe... Well no kidding!

[sagegrouse]

An interesting case study to look at would be Manchester United. When their lengendary manager of 25+ years, Sir Alex Ferguson, retired from the club they made a real hash of their succession planning.

Firstly, they missed out on a lot of the top managers in the game. Nobody wanted to be the first person to take on the poisoned chalice of replicating decades of succsss while being under a microscope. So they eventually appointed someone who was “similar” in the sense that David Moyes was also Scottish and has coached at a smaller club for many years with some success. What a major decision they got wrong and he was sacked in less than 1 year as his mentality and ability just weren’t at the top level or adequate for one of the biggest teams in the world.

Then they went the route of appointing two well known and reputable managers. Both had a bit of succsss but ultimately failed due to their philosophy’s being very different from what the club traditionally stood for, attacking and entertaining football. Both those coaches were rather defensive and conservative in their approach which eventually caused their downfall.

Now they have a caretaker manager at the helm. Someone who comes from Sir Alex’s coaching tree and also was a legendary player. Success has been coming back to the team under his tutelage and a big reason Is that he understands the history and ethos of the club.

However, it’s definately a warning and very interesting case study on the perils of replacing a lengendary coach who embodies the institution. Duke needs to learn from these cases and start succession planning years beforehand if they don’t want to spend years trying to get back to the top level.

The succession to Coach K is more than likely to be a goat rodeo that will last for ten years or more. One of the reasons we all want him to stay a long time.

[jimsumner]

The great Bubas-what-if isn't Verga, IMO, it's Bill Bradley.

Bradley had committed to Duke and signed institutional letters; no national LOI in those days.

On the day freshmen were supposed to arrive, Bradley's father called Bubas to inform him that Bradley was going to Princeton.

Bradley would have been a sophomore in 1963, Heyman's senior year and Mullins' junior year when Duke made its first FF. He would have overlapped with Mullins for two seasons, Marin for two seasons, Verga for one season.

Imagine Heyman, Mullins and Bradley as teammates.

It doesn't require much of a leap of faith to see a Bradley-Duke-team cutting down the nets a couple of times during that span and maybe Alcindor goes to Michigan or stays home at St. John's and UCLA becomes just another top program.

But by 1966 it was too late for Duke to be the program of the decade.

[sagegrouse]

The great Bubas-what-if isn't Verga, IMO, it's Bill Bradley.

Bradley had committed to Duke and signed institutional letters; no national LOI in those days.

On the day freshmen were supposed to arrive, Bradley's father called Bubas to inform him that Bradley was going to Princeton.

Bradley would have been a sophomore in 1963, Heyman's senior year, when Duke made its first FF. He would have overlapped with Mullins for two seasons, Marin for two seasons, Verga for one season.

It doesn't require much of a leap of faith to see a Bradley-Duke-team cutting down the nets a couple of times during that span and maybe Alcindor goes to Michigan or stays home at St. John's.

But by 1966 it was too late for Duke to be the program of the decade.

What Jim Sumner said. Bradley was Class of 1965. The 1963 Duke team would have had Heyman, Mullins and Bradley. The 1964 team would have had Mullins, Bradley and Marin. The 1965 team would have had Bradley, Marin and Verga. Sounds like winners to me.

[Steven43]

I'd love to see Brad Stevens at the helm. I mentioned it to him in his office a couple of years ago, and he said he thought K's job was safe... Well no kidding!

Wait......you met with Brad Stevens at his Celtics office?? And you discussed him potentially becoming the head coach of Duke Basketball?! What the....?

[jimsumner]

What Jim Sumner said. Bradley was Class of 1965. The 1963 Duke team would have had Heyman, Mullins and Bradley. The 1964 team would have had Mullins, Bradley and Marin. The 1965 team would have had Bradley, Marin and Verga. Sounds like winners to me.

It's actually worse than what I sketched. Bradley took Duke's last scholarship. Fred Hetzel told Bubas he wanted to go to Duke but Bubas had to tell him he was out of scholarships. So, Hetzel went to Davidson, where he was an All-American.

Had Bradley picked Princeton in the first place, then it would have been Hetzel playing alongside Heyman, et. al. And Hetzel was pretty darn good.

[OZZIE4DUKE]

Oh great and powerful Oz, how could you forget Gminski?!?!? The curtain has been pulled back!

Edit: BandAlum83 beat me to it.
Brain fart. What can I say? I knew I was missing someone! The big guy. Sheesh! LGD GTHc!

[HereBeforeCoachK]

It's actually worse than what I sketched. Bradley took Duke's last scholarship. Fred Hetzel told Bubas he wanted to go to Duke but Bubas had to tell him he was out of scholarships. So, Hetzel went to Davidson, where he was an All-American.

Had Bradley picked Princeton in the first place, then it would have been Hetzel playing alongside Heyman, et. al. And Hetzel was pretty darn good.

A great reminder from the way back machine that for a while in the 60s / early 70s under Lefty, little Davidson College was a power. Hard to fathom that now.....

[Acymetric]

It's the offseason, right? That must be why this thread is making its annual appearance. I'm still loving that championship speech that Zion gave!





Thankfully we'll have a few more years for Capel to show what he can do with a program that is floundering. Wojo has shown what he can do; he has brought Marquette back to being a legitimate FF contender. If Capel turns Pitt around, those two would have to be the leading contenders, I think. Who knows, maybe Collins does more at Northwestern and is in the conversation, too, but he and Wojo were hired the same year and where they are each at now is definitively noticeable.
Coaching is part of the equation, but so is recruiting. To get his team where they are now, Wojo has proven he can recruit the guys to get them to the next level. Capel was a great recruiter at Duke, so I won't be surprised when he makes guys believe in what he can accomplish as well.
Hopefully when the time does come and the interviews begin, there won't be any animosity from folks for not getting the job. Lots of great candidates, but only one seat will be open.

In fairness to Collins, Northwestern is a much tougher job than Marquette, he basically has to build a program completely from scratch there.

[wsb3]

The great Bubas-what-if isn't Verga, IMO, it's Bill Bradley.

Bradley had committed to Duke and signed institutional letters; no national LOI in those days.

On the day freshmen were supposed to arrive, Bradley's father called Bubas to inform him that Bradley was going to Princeton.

Bradley would have been a sophomore in 1963, Heyman's senior year and Mullins' junior year when Duke made its first FF. He would have overlapped with Mullins for two seasons, Marin for two seasons, Verga for one season.

Imagine Heyman, Mullins and Bradley as teammates.

It doesn't require much of a leap of faith to see a Bradley-Duke-team cutting down the nets a couple of times during that span and maybe Alcindor goes to Michigan or stays home at St. John's and UCLA becomes just another top program.

But by 1966 it was too late for Duke to be the program of the decade.

Great point.

[richmclean]

From 74 to 77 Duke was last in the ACC. The 74 team had the 8 point lead lost in 17 seconds vs UNC and the home loss to UNC where we were tied with 3 seconds and Bobby Jones intercepted our inbounds pass at mid court and slammed just before the buzzer. That 77 team had Tate Armstrong, Gman and Spanarkel was 12-1 when Tate broke his wrist. Lean years before (and after) K arrived.

[DevilYouKnow]

Bob Verga, Jeff Mullins, Jack Marin, Steve Vacendak.. I don't recall watching Art Heyman play..(Slightly before my childhood memories)

Dick Groat was a baller, too.

[DevilYouKnow]

The head coaching job will be extremely attractive because Duke University can easily demonstrate it knows how to support a basketball program and culture the right way. Sure, it'll be daunting for whomever steps into those giant shoes, but they can rest assured that they are supported by a university that knows how to support it.

Frankly, I don't want us to restrict to "within the family." That's what got UNC Matt Doherty (which was truly glorious for us Duke fans, BTW). Certainly, we need someone who perpetuates the culture of winning ethically, but that shouldn't necessarily come from within.

[Indoor66]

I agree with you. I want the best person available. Being a Duke grad may be a + but, to me, it is not the be all and end all of the choice.

[simplyluvin]

Agree with the both of you above. As I mentioned earlier in the thread, my big fear is we go "in-house", tread water or worse for a few years, and then get the right coach from the outside. The only case I can think of in college bball where a successor to a marquee coach carried on the success sustainably is Bill Self at Kansas (and it may be generous to call Roy a legend at that point). In most other cases where programs had to replace legends, it took many years to duplicate the same level of success. Look at UConn after Calhoun retired. At Kentucky, there was a 17 year gap between Rupp and Pitino and a 12 year gap between Pitino and Calipari.

In college football, I can only think of one case in recent history where the immediate successor did nearly as well as the preceding legend: Bobby Bowden to Fisher at FSU. Between Spurrier to Urban Meyer at Florida, there was a 4 year gap. History tells us that the immediate years after Coach K retires might be rough until we find the best coach.

One crazy thought - why not Tony Bennett?

[sagegrouse]

Agree with the both of you above. As I mentioned earlier in the thread, my big fear is we go "in-house", tread water or worse for a few years, and then get the right coach from the outside. The only case I can think of in college bball where a successor to a marquee coach carried on the success sustainably is Bill Self at Kansas (and it may be generous to call Roy a legend at that point). In most other cases where programs had to replace legends, it took many years to duplicate the same level of success. Look at UConn after Calhoun retired. At Kentucky, there was a 17 year gap between Rupp and Pitino and a 12 year gap between Pitino and Calipari.

In college football, I can only think of one case in recent history where the immediate successor did nearly as well as the preceding legend: Bobby Bowden to Fisher at FSU. Between Spurrier to Urban Meyer at Florida, there was a 4 year gap. History tells us that the immediate years after Coach K retires might be rough until we find the best coach.

One crazy thought - why not Tony Bennett?

I am not sure I agree with your statement about Kentucky succession. Joe B. Hall succeeded Adolph Rupp at Kentucky and did reasonably well. In 13 years, he had one championship, three Final Fours and six Elite Eights. He retired after the 1985 season at age 57, reportedly saying, "I don't want to be an old coach."

[jimsumner]

From 74 to 77 Duke was last in the ACC. The 74 team had the 8 point lead lost in 17 seconds vs UNC and the home loss to UNC where we were tied with 3 seconds and Bobby Jones intercepted our inbounds pass at mid court and slammed just before the buzzer. That 77 team had Tate Armstrong, Gman and Spanarkel was 12-1 when Tate broke his wrist. Lean years before (and after) K arrived.

The 1977 team started 10-1, lost to Clemson and UNC, then beat Virginia to go 11-3. That win broke a five-year ACC road losing streak. FIVE YEARS.

But that was the game in which Armstrong broke his right wrist. In the first half. He played the second half and the OT with a broken wrist. Think about that. Ain't adrenaline wonderful?

That team ended 14-13.

[jv001]

The 1977 team started 10-1, lost to Clemson and UNC, then beat Virginia to go 11-3. That win broke a five-year ACC road losing streak. FIVE YEARS.

But that was the game in which Armstrong broke his right wrist. In the first half. He played the second half and the OT with a broken wrist. Think about that. Ain't adrenaline wonderful?

That team ended 14-13.

As always your memory amazes me. Tate's broken wrist was not the only thing broken that game. So was my heart. He was one of my favorite players. I remember Tate playing for the USA Olympic team that was coached by Dean Smith. That brings another question, had Christian and Bobby gone to the cheats, would we have two less NCAA Championships. I hate the thought of that. GoDuke!

[Troublemaker]

One crazy thought - why not Tony Bennett?

Bennett's already winning conference titles and churning out 1 and 2 seeds with regularity. I don't think he would view following Coach K as the better job. And then there are personal factors. He's revered in Charlottesville and I'm sure has built many relationships there -- why turn all those people into enemies?

[CameronBornAndBred]

Bennett's already winning conference titles and churning out 1 and 2 seeds with regularity. I don't think he would view following Coach K as the better job. And then there are personal factors. He's revered in Charlottesville and I'm sure has built many relationships there -- why turn all those people into enemies?
Zactly. He has the opportunity to do at UVA what K did at Duke.

[COYS]

Bennett's already winning conference titles and churning out 1 and 2 seeds with regularity. I don't think he would view following Coach K as the better job. And then there are personal factors. He's revered in Charlottesville and I'm sure has built many relationships there -- why turn all those people into enemies?

I'm a big fan of soccer and for many fans of soccer around the world, HOW one's favorite club or national team wins games is almost as important as whether or not that team wins. A couple years back, Brazil briefly adopted a double defensive midfielder approach that, in many fans' eyes, was an abomination for a country that had turned soccer into "the beautiful game." The lack of a free-flowing, high-octane offense was seen as anathema for fans who had watched their country win five World Cup titles on the backs of world class attacking players.

I have deep admiration for Bennett. But even if he were willing to come to Duke, would Duke fans be ok with playing such a slow-paced style? I think he's an underrated offensive coach, but UVA's style is VERY different from what Duke's best teams have played, with the exception of the 2010 team. I am personally VERY fond of the 2010 team. I think that squad's dominance will always be a little underrated. And the subsequent careers of the players on the roster have shown that what the team lacked in high-end NBA talent was overcome by sheer depth of talent. But I can also acknowledge that outside of Gordon Hayward's last-ditch heave failing to go in, there aren't as many signature highlights from that season. Heck, I think Kyrie had more signature highlights in his 11 games the following season. The 2010 team didn't have anything remotely similar to Hurley-to-Hill, Battier's block, or even Grayson's explosive drives to the hoop against Wisconsin. I respect the heck out of Bennett, but as a neutral observer, UVA games are not my favorite, aesthetically speaking.

Bennett's preferred style also has recruiting implications (although it arguably makes recruiting the absolute top tier of talent a little less important, too).

Winning cures most issues, of course. And if Bennett did end up at Duke and Duke kept on winning the way UVA has and added more success in the NCAAT, Duke fans probably wouldn't complain. But I still wonder if we'd ever completely embrace Bennett's style. How important is winning with "beautiful" basketball to Duke fans?

[kako]

Frankly, I don't want us to restrict to "within the family." That's what got UNC Matt Doherty (which was truly glorious for us Duke fans, BTW). Certainly, we need someone who perpetuates the culture of winning ethically, but that shouldn't necessarily come from within.

I trust in K, whatever his decision. And recall that Doh was not Carolina's first choice (or even 2nd or 3rd, as I recall Brown and Karl also declined). Roy was, but turned Carolina down. It was only after Doh flailed so badly that Dean went to Roy and implored him to come back. And remember that Gut was the coach after Dean left first. When he retired, that's when UNC ended up with Doh.

9F

[gotoguy]

From 74 to 77 Duke was last in the ACC. The 74 team had the 8 point lead lost in 17 seconds vs UNC and the home loss to UNC where we were tied with 3 seconds and Bobby Jones intercepted our inbounds pass at mid court and slammed just before the buzzer. That 77 team had Tate Armstrong, Gman and Spanarkel was 12-1 when Tate broke his wrist. Lean years before (and after) K arrived.

I was sitting/standing in the bleachers close enough nearly to reach out and touch Paul Fox's jersey while he waited to inbound the ball. Jones, left handed but virtually amphibious and a defender in the Shane Battier mold, Swooped in and stole the inbounds pass and raced down the floor and laid it in right handed (dunking not allowed then, the Alcindor rule) and without stopping continued off the court and into the Cheat's locker room.

[CameronBornAndBred]

I was sitting/standing in the bleachers close enough nearly to reach out and touch Paul Fox's jersey while he waited to inbound the ball. Jones, left handed but virtually amphibious and a defender in the Shane Battier mold, Swooped in and stole the inbounds pass and raced down the floor and laid it in right handed (dunking not allowed then, the Alcindor rule) and without stopping continued off the court and into the Cheat's locker room.

After college, he went on to be a private coach, notching Charles Shackleford as one of his elite clients.

[cato]

I see people pushing back at K’s preference that he be succeeded as HC by someone who both played and coached in the Duke program.

I agree that the university should consider all qualified candidates, but want to explore *why* K thinks that one of his former players who coached *and* played for him is in the best position to succeed.

The easy assumption is that this is about legacy. That K wants a former player/coach to succeed him to burnish his own legacy. But if that were the case, K should not care if the next coach were, for example, Bobby Hurley or Mike Brey.

The next easiest assumption is that he just wants to give one of his boys a big break. Whoever follows him will earn a nice living, even if his seat has built-in heating elements and an automatic ejection device. But K has seen enough of his assistants get fired and have to find new homes (literally) to know that helping the wrong candidate get the job would not be helping that candidate at all. I assume that whoever gets the job will be leaving a good situation. Why encourage one of his friends to leave a good situation for one that could blow up in his face?

K is a smart guy. He has thought about this, and I assume he has has thought about how other schools have handled the transition.

UCLA is gone. IU forgotten. Kentucky, Duke and Carolina remain.

K grew up in the shadow of Dean Smith and a UNC program that was a notch above Duke’s. He has surpassed Dean and made Duke at least equal to UNC as a basketball power, but Roy has been a great success. UNC remains strong and one could argue that Roy is just as great as Dean.

My conclusion? K trusts in his program. He thinks following it is the most powerful way forward, and that the best person to take control of the program after him is someone who played in it and coached in it with him.

My suspicion: K wants to keep command of the ship until Capel has had a chance to put a program together at Pitt. At that point, Capel, Wojo and anyone else will have a complete story to tell if they throw their hats in the ring.

If I were to do a power ranking, I would put Wojo first and Capel second. But there was a time when I had JD and Tommy in those slots.

[sagegrouse]

I see people pushing back at K’s preference that he be succeeded as HC by someone who both played and coached in the Duke program.

I agree that the university should consider all qualified candidates, but want to explore *why* K thinks that one of his former players who coached *and* played for him is in the best position to succeed.

The easy assumption is that this is about legacy. That K wants a former player/coach to succeed him to burnish his own legacy. But if that were the case, K should not care if the next coach were, for example, Bobby Hurley or Mike Brey.

The next easiest assumption is that he just wants to give one of his boys a big break. Whoever follows him will earn a nice living, even if his seat has built-in heating elements and an automatic ejection device. But K has seen enough of his assistants get fired and have to find new homes (literally) to know that helping the wrong candidate get the job would not be helping that candidate at all. I assume that whoever gets the job will be leaving a good situation. Why encourage one of his friends to leave a good situation for one that could blow up in his face?

K is a smart guy. He has thought about this, and I assume he has has thought about how other schools have handled the transition.

UCLA is gone. IU forgotten. Kentucky, Duke and Carolina remain.

K grew up in the shadow of Dean Smith and a UNC program that was a notch above Duke’s. He has surpassed Dean and made Duke at least equal to UNC as a basketball power, but Roy has been a great success. UNC remains strong and one could argue that Roy is just as great as Dean.

My conclusion? K trusts in his program. He thinks following it is the most powerful way forward, and that the best person to take control of the program after him is someone who played in it and coached in it with him.

My suspicion: K wants to keep command of the ship until Capel has had a chance to put a program together at Pitt. At that point, Capel, Wojo and anyone else will have a complete story to tell if they throw their hats in the ring.

If I were to do a power ranking, I would put Wojo first and Capel second. But there was a time when I had JD and Tommy in those slots.

It would never cross my mind that this was a selfish act (really, a statement) on the part of Coach K. He believes that the Duke program is the strongest in the country in terms of how it is conducted, the success achieved, and the players brought in. There are a lot of secrets in getting to where we are. Coach K believes that the strength and traditions should be maintained, requiring someone who played and coached here.

Trouble is, this is a short list of people. Will it contain the right person?

[uh_no]

It would never cross my mind that this was a selfish act (really, a statement) on the part of Coach K. He believes that the Duke program is the strongest in the country in terms of how it is conducted, the success achieved, and the players brought in. There are a lot of secrets in getting to where we are. Coach K believes that the strength and traditions should be maintained, requiring someone who played and coached here.

Trouble is, this is a short list of people. Will it contain the right person?

That is always the question.

I think the opposite, really, it's more a humble act. The belief is that Duke does things the right way and people come because of how they're done....I don't think that's quite right. While I don't know personally, I imagine a lot of these guys we get come to be coached by K (and be in the program).


So the question is, without K, is the "program" enough to keep kids coming under some other coach? If another outside coach was more desirable to recruits, and that coach wanted to continue the "program," would that not be a better choice?

[Jeffrey]

UCLA is gone. IU forgotten. Kentucky, Duke and Carolina remain.


Kansas also remains.

[devildeac]

Kansas also remains.

Agreed. They're not just Dust in the Wind. But, do you think ol roy gives a @#$% about them? :rolleyes:

[Jeffrey]

But, do you think ol roy gives a @#$% about them? :rolleyes:

Yes, he still has a pension there.

[devildeac]

Yes, he still has a pension there.

Excellent point.

[wsb3]

And recall that Doh was not Carolina's first choice (or even 2nd or 3rd, as I recall Brown and Karl also declined).

9F

Not certain if Karl was offered but if memory serves me correctly Larry Brown was given a token interview..He was not offered..And he was not happy.

[Steven43]

I agree with you. I want the best person available. Being a Duke grad may be a + but, to me, it is not the be all and end all of the choice.

You got that right, brother. At least I think so. Get the best coach in the world, if possible. Like Alabama definitely did with Nick Saban. Like the Celtics quite possibly did with Brad Stevens. Get the best coach regardless of Duke affiliation, as long as he also has high character. No John Caliparis or Urban Meyers or Rick Pitinos around here.

[HereBeforeCoachK]

You got that right, brother. At least I think so. Get the best coach in the world, if possible. Like Alabama definitely did with Nick Saban. Like the Celtics quite possibly did with Brad Stevens. Get the best coach regardless of Duke affiliation, as long as he also has high character. No John Caliparis or Urban Meyers or Rick Pitinos around here.

One key seems to be this: in addition to who can or cannot coach, is the coach/university is a good match? For whatever reason, this has always fascinated me a bit.

K may or may not have had the career at Iowa State (a job he reportedly almost took while he waited on Butter's decision) that he had at Duke...and K would certainly win anywhere - but it's hard to imagine a better match for K than Duke - and vice versa.

Now what's a good match is kind of like part black magic, part gut feel, part subjective opinion, and part "It factor." Some obvious ones:
Saban is a great coach, but also a great match or Bama. Ditto Dabo and Clemson. Bennet at UVa...Cut at Duke...Roy with the Cheats...Coach G at Duke...Shaka Smart at VCU, Boeheim at Cuse, John Thompson at Georgetown.

Some bad matches off top of head might be Charlie Strong at Texas, Matt Doherty at the Cheats (and he played there), Coach G at Texas, and maybe Smart at Texas, Crean at Georgia. Of course, maybe Doherty was just a sorry coach as well.

When it comes down to pure coaching ability, among the names bandied about, I think the two most obvious slam dunk people who have proven they can be an elite coach, and can operate in college and in the pros, are Stevens and Snyder. It would be foolish to assume they would have any interest in leaving the NBA...but I think foolish to assume not as well.

Of those, Quin fits K's double bonafides as Duke player and coach...and of course, Stevens does not. But Stevens and Duke certainly seem like a fit made in Heaven. Quin, with some bumps along the way, may not be....K was outwardly a huge fan of Quin while he was at Missouri...early....but haven't heard much since the troubles there.

It would be so much easier if Collins or Wojo or Amaker or Dawkins or anyone else who had played and coached at Duke had been a big time winner elsewhere...Wojo may prove that at Marquette, Capel at Pitt. But if at the appointed time, there is no big winner among those...you have to wonder if K's druthers are set in stone, or just best case scenario in his mind.

And this is all fun and hypothetical...for now....and what makes it more fun is, well, ZION and "living in the moment."

[Reilly]

K is 72+. Not to be too morbid, but how many coaches have died while still employed as a coach? V was out of coaching when he died too young. Skip Prosser comes to mind but no others for me (but I'm sure I'm missing someone).

If something were to happen to K twenty years from now when he's still coaching at the age of 92, we should make sure we have a plan in place like the Vatican and the silver hammer, to confirm things.

See:


VATICAN CITY (Reuters) - Pope Francis on Thursday named the Irish-American cardinal Kevin Farrell as the new "camerlengo", the prelate who runs the Vatican between the death or resignation of a pontiff and the election of a new one.

Farrell, 71, who was in born in Ireland and is the highest-ranking American in the Vatican, succeeds the French cardinal Jean-Louis Tauran, who died in July.


The camerlengo, or chamberlain, runs the ordinary affairs of the Vatican city-state during the period known as the "sede vacante" (empty seat).

While the position is steeped in tradition and rituals, he cannot make any major decisions and cannot change Church teachings.

In the case of a papal death, the camerlengo is the person who officially confirms it, traditionally by tapping the pontiff’s head three times with a silver hammer and calling out his name. He then seals the papal residence and office.

In 2013, Benedict XVI became the first pope in six centuries to resign; Tauran began his duties the day the resignation took effect. Francis, aged 81, appears to be in good health.

[brevity]

...If something were to happen to K twenty years from now when he's still coaching at the age of 92, we should make sure we have a plan in place like the Vatican and the silver hammer, to confirm things.

Holy See:


VATICAN CITY (Reuters) - Pope Francis on Thursday named the Irish-American cardinal Kevin Farrell as the new "camerlengo", the prelate who runs the Vatican between the death or resignation of a pontiff and the election of a new one...

This seems like a good idea, but let me point out two concerns:

1. In Angels & Demons, the camerlengo appointment did not work out so well.

2. In The Book of Syracuse, there was an analogous situation where the head priest of great longevity decided to name a head-priest-in-waiting, but that priest got tired of waiting and left Syracuse to become the head priest at the University of Washington.

[Ima Facultiwyfe]

Just to point out, when Coach K says "He thinks his successor should be someone who played and coached at Duke," that doesn't mean it's set in stone. I have to imagine Bobby Hurley will be considered.

Hurley coached on the floor! Just sayin'.
Love, Ima

[cato]

You got that right, brother. At least I think so. Get the best coach in the world, if possible. Like Alabama definitely did with Nick Saban. Like the Celtics quite possibly did with Brad Stevens. Get the best coach regardless of Duke affiliation, as long as he also has high character. No John Caliparis or Urban Meyers or Rick Pitinos around here.

I tend to agree — hire the best coach available who has demonstrated an ability to succeed at a university with Duke’s academic requirements and who has strong ethics. Yet now that K has apparently gone on record saying that he thinks one of his former player/coaches is the best choice, I’m rethinking a bit.

[HereBeforeCoachK]

Hurley coached on the floor! Just sayin'.
Love, Ima

IMO Hurley will not be considered unless he kinda gets a handle on his sideline demeanor.....he can go totally apesh-t batsh-t whatever you want to call it.

[Bay Area Duke Fan]

IMO Hurley will not be considered unless he kinda gets a handle on his sideline demeanor...he can go totally apesh-t batsh-t whatever you want to call it.

Sorta like K when he was younger.

[HereBeforeCoachK]

Sorta like K when he was younger.

Oh, I think even more so......but yeah, K has mellowed a lot on the refs. Maybe more than I would like.....

[jv001]

Oh, I think even more so...but yeah, K has mellowed a lot on the refs. Maybe more than I would like....

Maybe he wants to remain calm for this particular freshmen group. Just as he did against Louisville. GoDuke!

[frb]

Johnny Dawkins is getting the job after Coach K retires. He just has to be solid at UCF. He's doing well this year at 19-5.

You know Coach K would like nothing more than Dawkins to get the gig. Even if it's just a longer Bill Guthridge type reign. The belief is Coach K has elevated the Duke brand to such levels that even someone with Dawkins pedestrian track record as a HC can win big in Durham.

Dawkins was the first guy to believe in Coach K. He helped transform the program. I think making him the HC makes a lot of sense. One and done will be over by the time K retires. He would leave the cupboard extremely full for Dawkins. That will give him 3-4 great seasons right there.

[uh_no]

Johnny Dawkins is getting the job after Coach K retires. He just has to be solid at UCF. He's doing well this year at 19-5.

You know Coach K would like nothing more than Dawkins to get the gig. Even if it's just a longer Bill Guthridge type reign. The belief is Coach K has elevated the Duke brand to such levels that even someone with Dawkins pedestrian track record as a HC can win big in Durham.

Dawkins was the first guy to believe in Coach K. He helped transform the program. I think making him the HC makes a lot of sense. One and done will be over by the time K retires. He would leave the cupboard extremely full for Dawkins. That will give him 3-4 great seasons right there.

I think the JD ship has long sailed. A mediocre coach at an AAC school who largely failed at his only big time gig? He's made the dance once. in 10 seasons across 2 schools. That might have been the de-facto plan at some point, but I can't imagine it being anyone's plan right now. JD also may well be 60 when the time K retires.

Believing in K and transforming a program as a player does not qualify one to be a successful head coach.

[HereBeforeCoachK]

Johnny Dawkins is getting the job after Coach K retires.

Dawkins was the first guy to believe in Coach K. He helped transform the program. I think making him the HC makes a lot of sense. One and done will be over by the time K retires. He would leave the cupboard extremely full for Dawkins. That will give him 3-4 great seasons right there.

I don't see JD getting the gig at all. Yes he was the first big time recruit to believe in K, and yes he and his classmates transformed the program - and that's why it would make a tremendous story. That 85-86 team is still my favorite team perhaps.....but there's just no evidence he's a good enough coach.

[sfinleyo]

I work with former Duke assistant Chuck Swenson and he visited Duke and Coach K recently and K told him that Jon Scheyer is a rising star. Obviously this doesn't mean that Jon would be anywhere close to a favorite but something to keep an eye on. I can't imagine Jon would have found a head coaching job elsewhere to build on by the time K retires though. But imagine a staff with him, James, Carrawell and Smith. That would be fun to watch and they could recruit anybody with their personalities and love for Duke.

[Troublemaker]

I see people pushing back at K’s preference that he be succeeded as HC by someone who both played and coached in the Duke program.

I agree that the university should consider all qualified candidates, but want to explore *why* K thinks that one of his former players who coached *and* played for him is in the best position to succeed.

[snip]


Nice post.

I would say often, the "inside the family" vs "outside the family" comparisons are unfair because people only remember or mention the "insiders" that failed and the "outsiders" that succeeded. For example, Archie Miller was one of the hottest coaching prospects in the country (I would say THE hottest), and his reign at Indiana hasn't started out so hot. (Small sample, I know -- let's check back in a few years). And before Archie, Shaka Smart was one of the hottest coaching prospects in the country (I would say THE hottest and someone I personally believed in), and his reign at Texas has been underwhelming; Shaka hasn't elevated them as a program at all.

I think, among other things, what Coach K understands is that people tend to underestimate how hard it is to find and hire an elite coach, whether you're looking inside the family OR outside. If the situation is murky no matter what, "tie" goes to the insiders.

My challenge to "outside the family" fans is for you to name me the coach you would hire when Coach K retires. The picks needs to be realistic. And then we'll keep track of how your coach performs, especially once he gets hired at a big program. My guess: people are going to be underwhelmed by your selection.

[HereBeforeCoachK]

I see people pushing back at K’s preference that he be succeeded as HC by someone who both played and coached in the Duke program.
.

Speaking for myself, I am not pushing back at "K's preference" because I think that's all of our preferences. I would think everyone would understand that K would want that, and why. That's why we would want it.

But I do would question the assumption that K's preference is the same as K's mandate or K's dictate. What else has he said/thought about the issue? It could be an ultimatum, or it could be merely a preference. I wouldn't pretend to know. I mean, did he ever say or think something like "of course, if Brad reached out to me then.....etc" or not? No way to know. Does he include Quin in that list in his mind, or not, due to Quin's baggage?

I think everyone loves the sentiment. It would be easy if one of the branches of the K tree is mega successful elsewhere, and is the easy natural slam dunk choice. Reality rarely is that neat. So will the best decision fit the played for/coached for parameter?

[diamond dave]

So with those criteria, is this the complete list (to date)?

Dawkins
Amaker
Snyder
James
Wojo
Collins
Capel
Smith
C-Well
Scheyer
Bilas

Highly unlikely but for the sake of thoroughness, David Henderson is also on the list. I'm not sure what he is doing now but I don't think he has coached in over 10 years since leaving Delaware. But he did both play and coach at Duke under K plus has head coaching experience.

Also unlikely but meets the criteria, Bob Bender played ('77-'80) and coached at Duke ('83-'89).

Diamond Dave E'90

[jimsumner]

Also unlikely but meets the criteria, Bob Bender played ('77-'80) and coached at Duke ('83-'89).

Diamond Dave E'90

He's also in his 60s.

Tony Barone played and coached at Duke. He's 72.

And let's not forget Steve Vacendak. He was an assistant AD. Jeff Mullins also was assistant AD. Does that count?

Eddie Cameron, Vic Bubas and Mike Krzyzewski are the three most successful coaches in Duke MBB history and all three started at Duke in their early 30s. Jon Scheyer will be 32 this summer. Is he already too old? :)

[wsb3]

I work with former Duke assistant Chuck Swenson and he visited Duke and Coach K recently and K told him that Jon Scheyer is a rising star. Obviously this doesn't mean that Jon would be anywhere close to a favorite but something to keep an eye on. I can't imagine Jon would have found a head coaching job elsewhere to build on by the time K retires though. But imagine a staff with him, James, Carrawell and Smith. That would be fun to watch and they could recruit anybody with their personalities and love for Duke.

I have wondered if Scheyer would be considered as well.. I know the no HC experience is a drawback but you never know how these things play out, especially if K thinks he is the right fit.

[wsb3]

He's also in his 60s.

Tony Barone played and coached at Duke. He's 72.

And let's not forget Steve Vacendak. He was an assistant AD. Jeff Mullins also was assistant AD. Does that count?

Eddie Cameron, Vic Bubas and Mike Krzyzewski are the three most successful coaches in Duke MBB history and all three started at Duke in their early 30s. Jon Scheyer will be 32 this summer. Is he already too old? :)

Jim, Many years ago I would attend high school basketball games in the area, mainly to see some of the guys that played for me when they were kids. I kept seeing this face at Laney games..I couldn't put it together. NO Google then. :) It dawned on me..Steve Vacendak.. He was recruiting Andy McKoy who he did sign to play at Winthrop. One of my favorite Blue Devils. But since he is older than me I think we can safely rule him out. :)

[Indoor66]

Vic Bubas came from State where he was an assistant. He had no head coaching experience. You either have it or you don't. The trick is recognizing the "it".

[uh_no]

I have wondered if Scheyer would be considered as well.. I know the no HC experience is a drawback but you never know how these things play out, especially if K thinks he is the right fit.

smith and scheyer co-head coaches. shock the world!!

[HereBeforeCoachK]

Vic Bubas came from State where he was an assistant. He had no head coaching experience. You either have it or you don't. The trick is recognizing the "it".

I agree with the "it" factor.....though it was far more common for a big time program to choose an assistant from another program in the 60s and even into the 80s...(Roy from Dean's Myth bench to Kansas HC) than it is now.

From my vantage point, there is one guy who wins the IT factor by a mile: Quin Synder.
I think Jon S has a bit of the it.....maybe Nate James too.
Wojo and Collins...I'm still thinking. Capel has a little bit of a different it factor......

As you say, the trick is recognizing it, and not everyone will recognize it the same.

[Troublemaker]

Speaking for myself, I am not pushing back at "K's preference" because I think that's all of our preferences. I would think everyone would understand that K would want that, and why. That's why we would want it.

But I do would question the assumption that K's preference is the same as K's mandate or K's dictate. What else has he said/thought about the issue? It could be an ultimatum, or it could be merely a preference. I wouldn't pretend to know. I mean, did he ever say or think something like "of course, if Brad reached out to me then...etc" or not? No way to know. Does he include Quin in that list in his mind, or not, due to Quin's baggage?

I think everyone loves the sentiment. It would be easy if one of the branches of the K tree is mega successful elsewhere, and is the easy natural slam dunk choice. Reality rarely is that neat. So will the best decision fit the played for/coached for parameter?

I mean, it's a preference for sure. I don't see Coach K going to war with Duke if they don't hire within his tree.


I work with former Duke assistant Chuck Swenson and he visited Duke and Coach K recently and K told him that Jon Scheyer is a rising star. Obviously this doesn't mean that Jon would be anywhere close to a favorite but something to keep an eye on. I can't imagine Jon would have found a head coaching job elsewhere to build on by the time K retires though. But imagine a staff with him, James, Carrawell and Smith. That would be fun to watch and they could recruit anybody with their personalities and love for Duke.


I have wondered if Scheyer would be considered as well.. I know the no HC experience is a drawback but you never know how these things play out, especially if K thinks he is the right fit.

I would make Scheyer the second favorite for the job (odds-wise). It would be the least disruptive move to The Brotherhood, as I can't recall any coach not bringing his assistants with him when he leaves another school. So, if Capel leaves Pitt, for example, I imagine his assistants come with him and James, Scheyer, and Smith will have to do some packing.

[CameronBornAndBred]

I would make Scheyer the second favorite for the job (odds-wise). It would be the least disruptive move to The Brotherhood, as I can't recall any coach not bringing his assistants with him when he leaves another school. So, if Capel leaves Pitt, for example, I imagine his assistants come with him and James, Scheyer, and Smith will have to do some packing.

James has been on the bench longer than any of them. Obviously K values him, so it would be very surprising for me to see K endorse Scheyer over Coach Badass. In fact, I'd assume that James is the next one to move to an HC role at another school.

[jimsumner]

I mean, it's a preference for sure. I don't see Coach K going to war with Duke if they don't hire within his tree.





I would make Scheyer the second favorite for the job (odds-wise). It would be the least disruptive move to The Brotherhood, as I can't recall any coach not bringing his assistants with him when he leaves another school. So, if Capel leaves Pitt, for example, I imagine his assistants come with him and James, Scheyer, and Smith will have to do some packing.

That reminds me of a Bubas story. When he took the Duke job AD Eddie Cameron told Bubas he had to keep Fred Shabel as an assistant for at least one year, because Shabel was "one of us," i.e. a former Duke player.

Now, Shabel is about 87. So, he might not be a long-term solution. But he could be a good interim pick.

[Troublemaker]

James has been on the bench longer than any of them. Obviously K values him, so it would be very surprising for me to see K endorse Scheyer over Coach Badass. In fact, I'd assume that James is the next one to move to an HC role at another school.

Well, Nate has been a coach at Duke since 2009. He's seen numerous assistants come and go since then.

Until proven otherwise by Nate accepting a head role elsewhere, I think Nate likes the assistant's role over a head role.

[CameronBornAndBred]

Well, Nate has been a coach at Duke since 2009. He's seen numerous assistants come and go since then.

Until proven otherwise by Nate accepting a head role elsewhere, I think Nate likes the assistant's role over a head role.

Maybe. Dawkins hung around longer than most of us expected, for just that reason. He was waiting for the right job to come along. Unfortunately, his right job didn't turn out so well. (At least unfortunate for JD; as a fan I'm glad he was tested before being handed the reigns in Cameron.)

[UrinalCake]

HOLY SCHNIKE!!! Did anybody hear/see this?


David Glenn Show
@DavidGlennShow
"Brad Stevens is a potential wildcard to eventually take over for Coach K, he told Boston when they hired him he's stay there until they either fire him or Duke comes calling."
- Art Chansky on the future of the coaching positions at Duke and Carolina

I've heard rumors in the past that Stevens has an out in his contract that lists one and only one college basketball program for which he would be able to leave the Celtics. Nobody had revealed which school that was, but it was rumored that it was NOT unc, and lots of people have speculated that it was Duke. Chansky's quote seems to support this notion.

And for years now, any fan who suggested that Stevens could be our next coach would be immediately shut down on the grounds that it would be ludicrous for him to do so. And maybe that's still true, after all things have changed since the time Stevens was hired by Boston. But still...

[Acymetric]

HOLY SCHNIKE!!! Did anybody hear/see this?



I've heard rumors in the past that Stevens has an out in his contract that lists one and only one college basketball program for which he would be able to leave the Celtics. Nobody had revealed which school that was, but it was rumored that it was NOT unc, and lots of people have speculated that it was Duke. Chansky's quote seems to support this notion.

And for years now, any fan who suggested that Stevens could be our next coach would be immediately shut down on the grounds that it would be ludicrous for him to do so. And maybe that's still true, after all things have changed since the time Stevens was hired by Boston. But still...

On the one hand, in the words of Ol' Roy, "I could give a [redacted] about Art Chansky".

That said, I thought this was more or less common knowledge about his contract with the Celtics when Stevens took the job...I'm not really surprised by anything other than that someone bothered to interview Art.

[sagegrouse]

HOLY SCHNIKE!!! Did anybody hear/see this?



I've heard rumors in the past that Stevens has an out in his contract that lists one and only one college basketball program for which he would be able to leave the Celtics. Nobody had revealed which school that was, but it was rumored that it was NOT unc, and lots of people have speculated that it was Duke. Chansky's quote seems to support this notion.

And for years now, any fan who suggested that Stevens could be our next coach would be immediately shut down on the grounds that it would be ludicrous for him to do so. And maybe that's still true, after all things have changed since the time Stevens was hired by Boston. But still...

This is a story by Chapel Hill writer Art Shansky, who is a defender of all things UNC. I would more likely believe it if it were written by Beelzebub himself

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

HOLY SCHNIKE!!! Did anybody hear/see this?



I've heard rumors in the past that Stevens has an out in his contract that lists one and only one college basketball program for which he would be able to leave the Celtics. Nobody had revealed which school that was, but it was rumored that it was NOT unc, and lots of people have speculated that it was Duke. Chansky's quote seems to support this notion.

And for years now, any fan who suggested that Stevens could be our next coach would be immediately shut down on the grounds that it would be ludicrous for him to do so. And maybe that's still true, after all things have changed since the time Stevens was hired by Boston. But still...

Interesting, but would we want a 75 year old Brad Stevens?

[Acymetric]

This is a story by Chapel Hill writer Art Shansky, who is a defender of all things UNC. I would more likely believe it if it were written by Beelzebub himself

Wasn't there some fallout between Chansky and unc during all the cheating stuff? Seems like something happened to create a rift there but maybe I'm mis-remembering.

[devildeac]

This is a story by Chapel Hill writer Art Shansky, who is a defender of all things UNC. I would more likely believe it if it were written by Beelzebub himself

And the difference being?

[Troublemaker]

Right, Art Chansky knows about this contract situation but not the Boston beat writers. Please.

If it's true that this had been an internet rumor, *that* is where Chansky heard it from.