Coach K's greatest weakness

[Jeffrey]

Hi,

Let's face it, nobody is perfect. I do not have enough time to list all of my weaknesses. Like most everyone here, I think Coach K has been one of the greatest coaches in the history of college hoops. Nevertheless, he is not perfect. Where do you think he could improve the most? My vote is the way he coaches the final 60 seconds of a game.

-Jeffrey

[jimsumner]

What a peculiar way to start your DBR posting history.

[Shammrog]

What a peculiar way to start your DBR posting history.

Agreed, but a good and original question sure to start lively and informative debate!

(I think that makes for a better Board.)

Coach K is the best now; right up there with Wooden and Knight as the best ever.

If I were to choose what I think is a weakness, I would say that he is to a degree plagued by MOST people and leaders who are astronomically successful:

Stubbornness.

Coach K will change as needed, but sometimes not as quickly as maybe he should. Even he admits early in his tenure that he stubbornly stuck with man-to-man defense when he didn't have the quality of players to do so. Eventually he switched, the program improved, the players improved, and he was able to go back to one of his core tenets. From time to time I think he still does stick with things that don't seem to be working. But, his impending rework of our offense (I am excited!) shows that he will eventually take a fresh look at previously "proven" approaches to continue his long run of amazing success.

[Jeffrey]

What a peculiar way to start your DBR posting history.

Hi,

I hesitated just for that reason but went ahead and posted it because I realize (after reading DBR for many moons) that many people here know a LOT more about Duke hoops that I do. Over the years, me & my buddies have sometimes scratched our heads about some of the things Coack K has, or has not, done in the final 60 seconds of a game. For example, especially in his earlier days, he seemed very resistant to call a time-out in the final minute of a game when his players really seemed to need one.

I am not trying to cause trouble. I apologize if it appears that way.

-Jeffrey

[rthomas]

Hi,

Where do you think he could improve the most? My vote is the way he coaches the final 60 seconds of a game.



Actually, two of Coach K's best and most famous coaching moves came in the final seconds of the games.

[Jeffrey]

Agreed, but a good and original question sure to start lively and informative debate!

(I think that makes for a better Board.)



Hi,

Thank you very much... that was my purpose!

If I do not bring something new & original to the equation, then what good am I?

-Jeffrey

[BlueDevilBaby]

Actually, two of Coach K's best and most famous coaching moves came in the final seconds of the games.

I assume the Kentucky game is one. I can think of a few others to add to it. What is your second?

BTW, I agree on the adjustments issue. But when your way is successful the majority of the time, it is probably difficult to go to some other approach. I don't recall seeing Syracuse or Temple (during Chaney's years) play anything other than their respective zone defenses.

[Jeffrey]

Actually, two of Coach K's best and most famous coaching moves came in the final seconds of the games.

Hi,

Neither of those occurred during the '99 UConn game when Trajan was requested to go 1 on 3. IMO, that would have been a good time to call a time-out and draw up a more viable play.

-Jeffrey

[hurleyfor3]

I assume the Kentucky game is one. I can think of a few others to add to it. What is your second?

Special.

I'll toss something out that doesn't get discussed a whole lot: I wish K were better at shepherding timeouts. Unlike a lot of strategic decisions, this is something a coach has direct control over (or at least he can teach his players not to call timeout if Hypothetical Game Situation X arises) and can easily change.

[rthomas]

I assume the Kentucky game is one. I can think of a few others to add to it. What is your second?



1990 Uconn. That was the first time I used the word genius for Coach K.

[OZZIE4DUKE]

Special.

I'll toss something out that doesn't get discussed a whole lot: I wish K were better at shepherding timeouts. Unlike a lot of strategic decisions, this is something a coach has direct control over (or at least he can teach his players not to call timeout if Hypothetical Game Situation X arises) and can easily change.

With so many newbies on the board (as discussed in Jumbo's thread), some may not know what "special" is. Special was the play Duke used vs. UCONN - Laettner's sophomore year, when he made his first last second miracle shot - he inbounded the ball and then got it back on the wing, and nailed the jumper! Something else was called in the huddle, but when Christain was standing in front of the Duke bench trying to inbound the ball, Krzyzewski called out "special", the players heard him, and the rest is history.

I think all of Coach K's weaknesses, if any, are well covered in section 1 of the HPR. You can look them up there!

[throatybeard]

Butters: What would you say is your greatest weakness, Mike?
Krzyzewski: Honestly, sir, it's that I push myself too hard.

[hurleyfor3]

Dang, I quoted 1q.

There's not much "pocket" about the HPR anymore. It needs to be called the Encyclopedia of DBR Ululations or somesuch.

[trinity92]

Actually, two of Coach K's best and most famous coaching moves came in the final seconds of the games.

I would expand the weakness to include general end of game scenarios. Over reliance on the stall has killed our momentum in a fair number of games. Granted, it hasn't lost us the game many times, but it always causes me agita, and really bit us in that late 90's regional final against Kentucky.

While the Shot in '92 was amazing, he had two of the best college players ever on the throwing and receiving end of that play. Not sure which other last second shot you're referring to-- Laettner's other shot against UCONN certainly qualifies as a well-engineered play, though. Don't forget we also have some game-ending spectacular failures: Don't forget Cinci going end to end against us to win the Alaska Shootout; Clemson last year coming back from 5 down in mere seconds (just because we won doesn't mean it wasn't a failure); VCU last year was an ugly game end too.

Second weakness is relative inability to develop big men. Brand was a monster the day he stepped on campus. I don't know how much credit our staff can take for him in the two seasons we had him. IMHO, would have been hard to mess him up. We did a great job with Boozer & Shelden and I'd say we made Cherokee into an over-performer, but failed to develop a far longer list (Shav, Sanders, Burgess, Taymon, Newton, Boateng, Palmer, Ast), some of whom transferred because of it. I know you can't win every time, but I think we've tanked on a large proportion of our bigs.

Don't mistake this post for naysaying. Just know there are chinks in the armor, even of one of the best ever. K says he's always trying to improve, so it seems hypocritical to refuse to point out possible areas of improvement.

[jimsumner]

"Even he admits early in his tenure that he stubbornly stuck with man-to-man defense when he didn't have the quality of players to do so."

No. In 1982, when his core players included such notables as Todd Anderson, Mike Tissaw, and Greg Wendt, Duke played lots of zone. The following season Dawkins, Alarie, Henderson, Bilas, Jackman, and Williams came on board. K knew that playing m2m with four freshmen in the starting lineup was a recipe for short-term disaster. But he also felt that this group would eventually thrive playing m2m. So he made a conscious decision to take some losses early with the expectation that the process would led to more wins down the road.

He was right. This class became GREAT defensive players. FWIW, every single member of that class (except for Jackman, with whom I've never talked), has told me that they knew exactly what was going on in 1983 and were in total agreement.

IMO, a young, unproven, embattled coach making the choice to forego short-term gratification for greater, long-term gratification is hardly an example of stubborness but rather an example of how someone can set and articulate a goal, stick to it, and be proven right.

[Shammrog]

With so many newbies on the board (as discussed in Jumbo's thread), some may not know what "special" is. Special was the play Duke used vs. UCONN - Laettner's sophomore year, when he made his first last second miracle shot - he inbounded the ball and then got it back on the wing, and nailed the jumper! Something else was called in the huddle, but when Christain was standing in front of the Duke bench trying to inbound the ball, Krzyzewski called out "special", the players heard him, and the rest is history.

I think all of Coach K's weaknesses, if any, are well covered in section 1 of the HPR. You can look them up there!

What's the HPR?

[grc5]

Profanity? :D
K can get hot under the collar at the refs.

[Shammrog]

"Even he admits early in his tenure that he stubbornly stuck with man-to-man defense when he didn't have the quality of players to do so."

No. In 1982, when his core players included such notables as Todd Anderson, Mike Tissaw, and Greg Wendt, Duke played lots of zone. The following season Dawkins, Alarie, Henderson, Bilas, Jackman, and Williams came on board. K knew that playing m2m with four freshmen in the starting lineup was a recipe for short-term disaster. But he also felt that this group would eventually thrive playing m2m. So he made a conscious decision to take some losses early with the expectation that the process would led to more wins down the road.

He was right. This class became GREAT defensive players. FWIW, every single member of that class (except for Jackman, with whom I've never talked), has told me that they knew exactly what was going on in 1983 and were in total agreement.

IMO, a young, unproven, embattled coach making the choice to forego short-term gratification for greater, long-term gratification is hardly an example of stubborness but rather an example of how someone can set and articulate a goal, stick to it, and be proven right.

Well, I had to come up with *something*... Even if it's not a real weakness, it is IMHO his "biggest" weakness. Every mortal (K being borderline mortal; but for this purpose we assume he is) has something they can do better even if they already do it well.

What do you think his biggest weakness is?

[Billy Dat]

I think that he is #1 by a mile at getting his team to play hard and right near the top when it comes to game prep. However, I think his in game management lags far behind his skill in the aforementioned categories. I think a lot of this has to do with his system - man to man defense and motion offense. In both cases, you are relying on your players to execute a philosophy that you have installed. However, when that system aint getting it done, there isn't a catalog of set plays to fall back on. Offensively, he calls out what he refers to as "quick hitters", but otherwise the players are counted on to read the defense and "make plays". When you don't have an offensively gifted team, like last year, it doesn't work as well (that high post weave used to make me nuts). Generally, he likes to let his players play which works most of the time but sets us up for some spectacular flops at other times....without getting into specifics, I think that Calhoun flat out outcoached him in 1999 and 2004.

Off the court - I wish he didn't open himself to so much bashing with some of his really drippy sentimental anecdotes. "I looked into Demarcus "angelic eyes", "I was talking to Boozer and he started to cry", "we all cried together and that made us a team".....that's all fine coach...we know it's allright to cry...but can't some things stay in the locker room?

Of course, we are really splitting some serious hairs here. I wouldn't have him change a thing. He is who he is...which isn't perfect but as close as I think we can expect a coach to be.

[whereinthehellami]

Hi,

Let's face it, nobody is perfect. I do not have enough time to list all of my weaknesses. Like most everyone here, I think Coach K has been one of the greatest coaches in the history of college hoops. Nevertheless, he is not perfect. Where do you think he could improve the most? My vote is the way he coaches the final 60 seconds of a game.

-Jeffrey

Fixes bait to line and casts. Waits...

[Bluedog]

What's the HPR?

Handy Pocket Reference. Link is stickied at the top of list of threads. Or to save you time, here it is: http://www.duke.edu/~bct1/images/DBRHPR7.1asPDF.pdf

[Jeffrey]

Fixes bait to line and casts. Waits...

Hi,

:D This coming from someone who started one of the "similar threads" listed below within days of joining this board. :rolleyes:

http://www.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1104

-Jeffrey

[Bay Area Duke Fan]

I think that K's greatest weakness is his failure to get a big guy to coach the bigs. Wojo is a terrific coach, but it's difficult to understand how he can be effective coaching 4s and 5s, since he was a point guard. Duke's recent problems with recruiting bigs or keeping them at Duke are well known. Maybe he'd be better off with a big guy coach who didn't play for K.

[Bluedog]

I think that K's greatest weakness is his failure to get a big guy to coach the bigs. Wojo is a terrific coach, but it's difficult to understand how he can be effective coaching 4s and 5s, since he was a point guard. Duke's recent problems with recruiting bigs or keeping them at Duke are well known. Maybe he'd be better off with a big guy coach who didn't play for K.

1F! 1F!

"f) Krzyzewski loves guards too much; we need a real big man coach besides Wojo, of at least ‘6-10” himself. (AKA small ball)"

I think I'll just copy and paste all of them so we don't get too repetitive since it seems like most people aren't going to actually look at it...

"a) Krzyzewski’s management of the rotation will bite us/has bitten us in the $%%$.
b) We have no bench.
c) [Player X who transferred away] sure would help us right now. (Related to a.)
d) I’m worried that [player] will transfer. (Related to a.)
e) Krzyzewski’s management of the clock (AKA stall ball) will bite us/has bitten us in the not welcome herenot welcome herenot welcome here.
f) Krzyzewski loves guards too much; we need a real big man coach besides Wojo, of at least ‘6-10” himself. (AKA small ball)
g) Why can’t we rebound? (related to f.)
h) Why won’t Krzyzewski schedule [any true road games/better opponents/games close to my house/team we used to play]
i) Who will Krzyzewski start next year? (ad nauseam for 7 months)
j) Ohmigod, what will we do when Krzyzewski retires?!?! (AKA next coach speculation)
k) Kwit komplaining about K. He has won three more national championships than you have. His strategies succeed in infinitely more komplex ways than your minuscule brain can komprehend.
l) Why doesn’t [Duke big man] assert himself more, and does/how does Krzyzewski’s coaching style contribute to [big man’s perceived] wussyness?
m) I think we shoot way too many damn threes!
n) We don’t take enough mid-range shots.
o) Our shot selection sucks in general; we take too many contested/long/off balance shots.
p) Our point guard is too turn-over prone; why doesn’t Koach do anything about that?
q) Why doesn’t Krzyzewski save his timeouts like Dean did?
r) Why doesn’t Krzyzewski call a timeout to set up the game-final possession?
s) Why doesn’t Krzyzewski make us practice foul shots more; FTs are really biting us in the ^%$.
t) Hey, I think we should play some zone--why don’t we ever do that?"

Great compilation throatybeard!

[Jumbo]

I believe the answer is "chocolate cake."

[throatybeard]

I think that K's greatest weakness is his failure to get a big guy to coach the bigs. Wojo is a terrific coach, but it's difficult to understand how he can be effective coaching 4s and 5s, since he was a point guard. Duke's recent problems with recruiting bigs or keeping them at Duke are well known. Maybe he'd be better off with a big guy coach who didn't play for K.

The thing about this particular meme is, I can no longer tell when people are joking and when they're serious.

[-jk]

I think this thread has run its course: There's nothing new here; we're just shooting ourselves in the foot.

Locked.

-jk