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JBDuke
02-05-2019, 08:58 PM
Who was Duke's Man of the Match in their win over BC tonight?

MChambers
02-05-2019, 08:59 PM
I went with Cam, but Zion also was deserving.

curtis325
02-05-2019, 09:00 PM
Very nice game by RJ, Bolden had some nice moments, Tre shut down Bowman, Cam was magnificent.


MOTM was ZION!!!!

Devilwin
02-05-2019, 09:04 PM
Proud of Cam. He gets my vote.

DukieInBrasil
02-05-2019, 09:08 PM
I voted for Cam, b/c i've never had reason to before, and he had a very nice game, doing things he hasn't done much of at all, or at least well, this year.
Honestly though, Zion's stat line was better, and normally would have garnered the MOTM vote for such a performance.

lotusland
02-05-2019, 09:09 PM
Cam. Zion with 17 boards needs to work on his dunks😊

duke4ever19
02-05-2019, 09:10 PM
Westtown School's own Cameron Reddish!

Fear the Moose!

flyingdutchdevil
02-05-2019, 09:20 PM
Cam. Zion with 17 boards needs to work on his dunks😊

That’s cus Zion can’t dunk.

I went into the game hoping to vote for someone other than Zion. Not that I have anything against Zion (he’s the most entertaining college basketball player in the last 20 years), but I wanted to see Cam, RJ, Tre, Bolden, or White get MOTM.

And Cam did not disappoint! Bolden also had an amazing game.

ncexnyc
02-05-2019, 09:21 PM
That was a really quiet 24 points from Cam, but despite all the hype going to Zion and RJ, he was my MOTM.

KandG
02-05-2019, 09:22 PM
Thought Cam was fantastic and gave him my vote, though I was tempted to give it to Bolden because he was really good all game on both offense and defense. Sometimes he hangs his head when he misses out on a loose ball or rebound, but he went after it on every play. Good for Marques.

OZZIE4DUKE
02-05-2019, 10:07 PM
I’m delighted to vote for Cam tonight!

Zion had another (quiet) great game, and I’m glad his missed dunk came in a game when we didn’t need the points. As he got the ball and started towards the basket, 9416 people rose in unison to watch! I’m sure the miss will be a Sports Center highlight tonight.

Tre’s defense , with help from Zion and Marques, was magnificent against Bowman!

elvis14
02-05-2019, 10:18 PM
Was really happy to be able to choose Cam as the ZOTM

mapei
02-05-2019, 10:50 PM
I agree with DukieInBrasil. Zion had an incredible all-around game, but I am so happy to vote for Cam, who lit it up tonight!

Lar77
02-06-2019, 10:35 AM
Great all around game by Cam. Looks more comfortable out there.

Shout out to Tre for another leadership game.

Love seeing Marques continue to progress.

Reddevil
02-06-2019, 10:43 AM
Really happy for Cam. Good to see him get the post game interviews. He handled it well. Bolden continues to impress also. Tre, RJ, and Zion are alright too. ;)

Jeffrey
02-06-2019, 10:45 AM
Voted for Zion with 16 points (7 for 12), 17 boards, 4 steals, 3 blocks, and 3 assists.

Very glad to see others are starting to agree Cam is our best shooter. IMO, love for Cam is overdue.

kAzE
02-06-2019, 12:28 PM
Really happy for Cam. Good to see him get the post game interviews. He handled it well. Bolden continues to impress also. Tre, RJ, and Zion are alright too. ;)

I felt like he really didn't want the post game interview, though. His answers made it seem like he didn't want the attention and that he really just wanted to get it over with and head to the locker room.

Cam strikes me as the quietest/most introverted of the freshmen. Which is fine, he's a damn good player, and I'm really happy to see him have a great game. This could be a once in a lifetime recruiting class, not only in terms of talent, but personalities that mesh well together. RJ is probably the most "alpha" of the group, but he's just as happy to share the spotlight with the other guys. Fantastic group of kids.

Bob Green
02-06-2019, 04:21 PM
Cam Reddish earned my MOTM vote for his overall play. As others have commented, his game had flow.

Runner up: Zion Williamson with 16 points, 17 rebounds, 4 steals, 3 blocks. He missed a couple of dunks he should have made. On the first miss, he simply was hot dogging too much -- he needs to ensure his priority is to score two points rather than executing a highlight reel extravaganza ESPN can replay a gazillion times. On the second miss, the ball slipped out of his hands. His facial expression left no doubt how angry he was with himself.

Honorable mention: Tre Jones with solid on ball defense, 3 assists and 0 turnovers.

CDu
02-06-2019, 07:21 PM
It is something when a guy can go for 16 (on 12 FGA) points, 17 rebounds (!), 4 steals, and 3 blocks and not get a sniff of the honor. We have become too accustomed to otherworldly Zion that even a superhuman effort like last night gets overlooked.

HereBeforeCoachK
02-06-2019, 07:46 PM
It is something when a guy can go for 16 (on 12 FGA) points, 17 rebounds (!), 4 steals, and 3 blocks and not get a sniff of the honor. We have become too accustomed to otherworldly Zion that even a superhuman effort like last night gets overlooked.

I totally disagree. We are not allowed to vote on second place. The award went to a guy who was the leading scorer and who hit a few momentum changing threes...something this team badly needs. It's nothing to do with over looking Zion. Nothing like that at all. I would be everybody who voted Cam would have put Zion next in a skinny minute.

curtis325
02-06-2019, 07:49 PM
It is something when a guy can go for 16 (on 12 FGA) points, 17 rebounds (!), 4 steals, and 3 blocks and not get a sniff of the honor. We have become too accustomed to otherworldly Zion that even a superhuman effort like last night gets overlooked.

Not overlooked by 11% of us (Zionistas)!

CDu
02-06-2019, 08:03 PM
I totally disagree. We are not allowed to vote on second place. The award went to a guy who was the leading scorer and who hit a few momentum changing threes...something this team badly needs. It's nothing to do with over looking Zion. Nothing like that at all. I would be everybody who voted Cam would have put Zion next in a skinny minute.

Yes, but Zion was more important in virtually every way. He was the more efficient scorer and blew Cam away in nearly every other category. If any other player had put up Zion’s numbers, I bet he gets the award and it isn’t close. But because it was Zion and he regularly is superhuman, he didn’t come close.

Not that it really matters of course. Just an interesting phenomenon.

Jeffrey
02-06-2019, 08:08 PM
It is something when a guy can go for 16 (on 12 FGA) points, 17 rebounds (!), 4 steals, and 3 blocks and not get a sniff of the honor. We have become too accustomed to otherworldly Zion that even a superhuman effort like last night gets overlooked.

Did you miss his 3 assists and my earlier post?

HereBeforeCoachK
02-06-2019, 08:10 PM
But because it was Zion and he regularly is superhuman, he didn’t come close.
.

Again, I disagree. If we had voting for 3 spots, he would've been 11% first place and 89% second place....it's not that he's regularly super human, it's just that most people understand this little poll is meaningless and therefore the voting is always subjective as well as objective. What has Zion won, all but 3 of these? And come in second those three times? No one is overlooking or taking for granted anything about Zion.

This is kind of like a game ball in football......often times goes to the player who was the story of the game, even if he has teammates who are superior. Cam's emergence was the story of the game, along with Zion's missed dunks. Makes total sense that Cam wins the award, while everybody who voted Cam still loves Zion.

kAzE
02-06-2019, 10:17 PM
Again, I disagree. If we had voting for 3 spots, he would've been 11% first place and 89% second place...it's not that he's regularly super human, it's just that most people understand this little poll is meaningless and therefore the voting is always subjective as well as objective. What has Zion won, all but 3 of these? And come in second those three times? No one is overlooking or taking for granted anything about Zion.

This is kind of like a game ball in football...often times goes to the player who was the story of the game, even if he has teammates who are superior. Cam's emergence was the story of the game, along with Zion's missed dunks. Makes total sense that Cam wins the award, while everybody who voted Cam still loves Zion.

Had it been Jack White or Javin DeLaurier who put up the exact same stat line as Zion in that game, they would have been voted MOTM without a doubt.

I think most of us understand that Zion had the biggest positive impact on that game, but sometimes, you gotta spread the love :)

With that said, Zion is absolutely held to a higher standard. I voted for Cam, but this is the first time I didn't vote for Zion when he technically had the best, most efficient game.

HereBeforeCoachK
02-07-2019, 07:21 AM
Had it been Jack White or Javin DeLaurier who put up the exact same stat line as Zion in that game, they would have been voted MOTM without a doubt.

I think most of us understand that Zion had the biggest positive impact on that game, but sometimes, you gotta spread the love :)

With that said, Zion is absolutely held to a higher standard. I voted for Cam, but this is the first time I didn't vote for Zion when he technically had the best, most efficient game.

This chat has my brain going...that and some good Mexican coffee...

And I think this comes down to how do you interpret "man of the match"? I'm guessing, though I was not on DBR at the time, that Grayson Allen was MOTM against Wisconsin in the Natty game. And Grayson was the obvious choice...over Tyus...for one incredible reason: his performance was out of nowhere, unexpected, and therefore had a dramatic impact on the players on both teams - none of whom expected this. There's a fine line between the concept of holding certain players to a higher standard versus recognizing the unexpected impact that was not baked into any pre game suppositions. And or course, a vote for Tyus for MOTM of that game would've also been defensible, and I suspect he got many votes here.

If MOTM means overall best player, or MVP in the most technical sense, then it's gonna be Zion in every Duke game and QB's in every single football game ever and pitchers in every baseball game ever. I can respect that, but I don't think that's the best use of the award, especially since there is no tangible impact on the players we vote on from our votes. This I think is why baseball has a separate award for pitchers - the Cy Young - as well as MVP. A lot of baseball people think that the MVP should be for the position players only the way the Cy Young is for pitchers only. But not all baseball writers agree. They have the same debate that we are having.

To be sure, a vote for Zion against BC is totally defensible and supportable. But so is a vote for Cam...because he was in fact the leading scorer, and his scoring from the outside opened the game up for Zion and the others, and because a couple 3's came at big moments, and because hitting threes is the single biggest weakness of the team, and because his hitting those threes super charged his teammates with energy because they're all rooting for him to get back to being the Cam they know he can be...for all of those reasons a Cam vote is legit above and beyond any perceived double standards. Not to say those don't exist...just saying a Cam vote here does not have to be explained in those terms.

Julian Edelman was the MVP of the Super Bowl...but was he really more important to the win than Brady? Of course not. No way a WR can be more important than a QB. But his performance enhanced Brady's - and was devastating to the Rams in big moments. Does that make his vote a bad vote? I don't think so. I think a case could be made for Edelman - and for Gilmore the DB because his coverage disrupted the Rams all game long and he had the big turnover...and a case can always be made for the winning QB - due to the nature of the game.

So again, it's how we look at the award, and just like TV announcers who vote, writers who vote, and other DBR members who vote...some look at this as the actual technical MVP, or MIP...and some look at it a bit more subjectively. Both are defensible...especially for a vote that has no impact on the players....such as our DBR vote.

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
02-07-2019, 07:29 AM
This chat has my brain going...that and some good Mexican coffee...

And I think this comes down to how do you interpret "man of the match"? I'm guessing, though I was not on DBR at the time, that Grayson Allen was MOTM against Wisconsin in the Natty game. And Grayson was the obvious choice...over Tyus...for one incredible reason: his performance was out of nowhere, unexpected, and therefore had a dramatic impact on the players on both teams - none of whom expected this. There's a fine line between the concept of holding certain players to a higher standard versus recognizing the unexpected impact that was not baked into any pre game suppositions. And or course, a vote for Tyus for MOTM of that game would've also been defensible, and I suspect he got many votes here.

If MOTM means overall best player, or MVP in the most technical sense, then it's gonna be Zion in every Duke game and QB's in every single football game ever and pitchers in every baseball game ever. I can respect that, but I don't think that's the best use of the award, especially since there is no tangible impact on the players we vote on from our votes. This I think is why baseball has a separate award for pitchers - the Cy Young - as well as MVP. A lot of baseball people think that the MVP should be for the position players only the way the Cy Young is for pitchers only. But not all baseball writers agree. They have the same debate that we are having.

To be sure, a vote for Zion against BC is totally defensible and supportable. But so is a vote for Cam...because he was in fact the leading scorer, and his scoring from the outside opened the game up for Zion and the others, and because a couple 3's came at big moments, and because hitting threes is the single biggest weakness of the team, and because his hitting those threes super charged his teammates with energy because they're all rooting for him to get back to being the Cam they know he can be...for all of those reasons a Cam vote is legit above and beyond any perceived double standards. Not to say those don't exist...just saying a Cam vote here does not have to be explained in those terms.

Julian Edelman was the MVP of the Super Bowl...but was he really more important to the win than Brady? Of course not. No way a WR can be more important than a QB. But his performance enhanced Brady's - and was devastating to the Rams in big moments. Does that make his vote a bad vote? I don't think so. I think a case could be made for Edelman - and for Gilmore the DB because his coverage disrupted the Rams all game long and he had the big turnover...and a case can always be made for the winning QB - due to the nature of the game.

So again, it's how we look at the award, and just like TV announcers who vote, writers who vote, and other DBR members who vote...some look at this as the actual technical MVP, or MIP...and some look at it a bit more subjectively. Both are defensible...especially for a vote that has no impact on the players...such as our DBR vote.

If major media outlets cannot agree on criteria for professional sports MVP, I think the idea that our board will have consensus on these threads is folly.

If we were honest, I think our most VALUABLE player is Tre Jones. We are simply not the same team on defense without him, and his play making and hustle are astounding. I think our most OUTSTANDING player is usually Zion, for the freakish nature of his physical play. I keep hearing our best NBA prospect is RJ. I would wager our most improved player is Bolden.

The NBA doesn't give Lebron the MVP every year, dispite the fact that his "value" is clearly massive; his departure from teams leaves a huge hole and takes years to recover from.

jv001
02-07-2019, 10:04 AM
If major media outlets cannot agree on criteria for professional sports MVP, I think the idea that our board will have consensus on these threads is folly.

If we were honest, I think our most VALUABLE player is Tre Jones. We are simply not the same team on defense without him, and his play making and hustle are astounding. I think our most OUTSTANDING player is usually Zion, for the freakish nature of his physical play. I keep hearing our best NBA prospect is RJ. I would wager our most improved player is Bolden.

The NBA doesn't give Lebron the MVP every year, dispite the fact that his "value" is clearly massive; his departure from teams leaves a huge hole and takes years to recover from.

I guess it's sort of like the AP Coach of the year award that the GOAT has never received. That is more unusual than Zion not getting MOTM more. GoDuke!

Jeffrey
02-07-2019, 10:14 AM
This chat has my brain going...that and some good Mexican coffee...

And I think this comes down to how do you interpret "man of the match"? I'm guessing, though I was not on DBR at the time, that Grayson Allen was MOTM against Wisconsin in the Natty game. And Grayson was the obvious choice...over Tyus...for one incredible reason: his performance was out of nowhere, unexpected, and therefore had a dramatic impact on the players on both teams - none of whom expected this. There's a fine line between the concept of holding certain players to a higher standard versus recognizing the unexpected impact that was not baked into any pre game suppositions. And or course, a vote for Tyus for MOTM of that game would've also been defensible, and I suspect he got many votes here.

If MOTM means overall best player, or MVP in the most technical sense, then it's gonna be Zion in every Duke game and QB's in every single football game ever and pitchers in every baseball game ever. I can respect that, but I don't think that's the best use of the award, especially since there is no tangible impact on the players we vote on from our votes. This I think is why baseball has a separate award for pitchers - the Cy Young - as well as MVP. A lot of baseball people think that the MVP should be for the position players only the way the Cy Young is for pitchers only. But not all baseball writers agree. They have the same debate that we are having.

To be sure, a vote for Zion against BC is totally defensible and supportable. But so is a vote for Cam...because he was in fact the leading scorer, and his scoring from the outside opened the game up for Zion and the others, and because a couple 3's came at big moments, and because hitting threes is the single biggest weakness of the team, and because his hitting those threes super charged his teammates with energy because they're all rooting for him to get back to being the Cam they know he can be...for all of those reasons a Cam vote is legit above and beyond any perceived double standards. Not to say those don't exist...just saying a Cam vote here does not have to be explained in those terms.

Julian Edelman was the MVP of the Super Bowl...but was he really more important to the win than Brady? Of course not. No way a WR can be more important than a QB. But his performance enhanced Brady's - and was devastating to the Rams in big moments. Does that make his vote a bad vote? I don't think so. I think a case could be made for Edelman - and for Gilmore the DB because his coverage disrupted the Rams all game long and he had the big turnover...and a case can always be made for the winning QB - due to the nature of the game.

So again, it's how we look at the award, and just like TV announcers who vote, writers who vote, and other DBR members who vote...some look at this as the actual technical MVP, or MIP...and some look at it a bit more subjectively. Both are defensible...especially for a vote that has no impact on the players...such as our DBR vote.

IMO, the NFL and MLB comparisons are not appropriate for the reason you mentioned (the importance of a QB and pitcher). The GOAT NBA player may have been a 2 or he may be a 3 or 4. Some still think he was a 5.

IMO, Zion's stat line against BC was NPOY level. It's logically hard, for me, not to consider it MOTM level.

HereBeforeCoachK
02-07-2019, 09:25 PM
IMO, the NFL and MLB comparisons are not appropriate for the reason you mentioned (the importance of a QB and pitcher). The GOAT NBA player may have been a 2 or he may be a 3 or 4. Some still think he was a 5.
.

I was waiting for that comment, and it is a valid comment. Sure QB is unique, as is pitcher in baseball (and some say goalie in hockey). So the analogy is not perfect. But Zion is also unique.....so the analogy does have some validity in that vein. Like a QB, or a pitcher, all eyes are on Zion every play, whether he has the ball or not.

Jeffrey
02-08-2019, 09:45 AM
Like a QB, or a pitcher, all eyes are on Zion every play, whether he has the ball or not.

Absolutely, and Zion still had 16 points (7 for 12), 17 boards, 4 steals, 3 blocks, and 3 assists. IIRC, he picked up only 1 foul in the process.

HereBeforeCoachK
02-08-2019, 03:36 PM
Absolutely, and Zion still had 16 points (7 for 12), 17 boards, 4 steals, 3 blocks, and 3 assists. IIRC, he picked up only 1 foul in the process.

There was a 3 on 1 against GT.....Tre with the ball down the middle....Zion lurking on the left baseline, and RJ coming down the right wing. Before Tre even looked at Zion, the GT defender hedged way over to Zion's side....easy hand off to RJ for one of his highlight reel dunks. Tre could've also finished easily on the play. All eyes on Zion all the time.

CDu
02-08-2019, 04:00 PM
If we were honest, I think our most VALUABLE player is Tre Jones. We are simply not the same team on defense without him, and his play making and hustle are astounding. I think our most OUTSTANDING player is usually Zion, for the freakish nature of his physical play. I keep hearing our best NBA prospect is RJ. I would wager our most improved player is Bolden.

I just saw this post, and it may be a minor quibble. But I think our most outstanding player is - in this case - also our most valuable player, and also our top NBA prospect: Zion. If you take him away, this team is still a good team. But it would not be as good a team as a Duke team with Zion but without Jones. I don't think we stand a chance against UVa without Zion, whereas we are clearly capable of beating UVa with Zion. Now, I think Jones is the second most valuable player. But I think this team needs Zion more than it needs any other player.

Jeffrey
02-08-2019, 05:23 PM
I think this team needs Zion more than it needs any other player.

Agreed! That may also be true again next year, if Zion plays for the Knicks.

Phredd3
02-08-2019, 05:34 PM
Agreed! That may also be true again next year, if Zion plays for the Knicks.

Oh, how great would he be in New York, baby!! How much would the fan love that, huh?? Can you IMAGINE Zion in a Knicks uniform?! The New York fans would go crazy!! It would be just unbelievable!!!!!





(Sorry, yours was a perfectly reasonable comment. I just couldn't help myself....)

Jeffrey
02-08-2019, 05:52 PM
Oh, how great would he be in New York, baby!! How much would the fan love that, huh?? Can you IMAGINE Zion in a Knicks uniform?! The New York fans would go crazy!! It would be just unbelievable!!!!!



Geez, now they let Wheat and Vitale post here. I'm gone.......