NCAA punishes Missouri for academic fraud?

[smvalkyries]

I guess granting work free credits at UNC-CH has no value and therefore is not an impermissible benefit but Missouri college credits still have value? If I were a Missouri alum I think I would be a bit perplexed by the dual standard. If I were a UNC-CH alum I would again be embarrassed.

[DU82]

I guess granting work free credits at UNC-CH has no value and therefore is not an impermissible benefit but Missouri college credits still have value? If I were a Missouri alum I think I would be a bit perplexed by the dual standard. If I were a UNC-CH alum I would again be embarrassed.

The N&O reprinted (online) a column from a Kansas City Star writer:

https://www.newsobserver.com/sports/article225347545.html

[WiJoe]

this inhales vigorously.

[Pghdukie]

If I were a UNC Cheat, I'd be laughing my behind off !

[snowdenscold]

The N&O reprinted (online) a column from a Kansas City Star writer:

https://www.newsobserver.com/sports/article225347545.html



Money quote:

Mizzou tried to cooperate with the NCAA’s investigation. As it turned out, the better defense would have been to make sure Kumar also helped some frat guys and intramural athletes cheat their way through school.

[wsb3]

The NCAA has no dignity, no shame & certainly no degree of fairness.

We will never know how much $$$ the cheats spent to hang on to banners they clearly cheated to obtain. I suspect that it goes well beyond the 20 mil for attorneys.

[Teton Jack]

Yep, they really pummeled Missouri!

[UrinalCake]

Money quote:

It pretty much comes down to the fact that the NCAA expects the schools to police themselves, and assumes some baseline level of morality and integrity. When other schools discover that rules were broken, they voluntarily report it and make efforts to rectify the situation and are punished accordingly by the NCAA. But in the case of UNC, they simply have no integrity and chose instead to deny any wrongdoing. They claimed that their previous written admission of wrongdoing was a typo, and they paid $18M in lawyers to find a loophole that they could exploit. Therefore, the NCAA was powerless to do anything about it; if the school maintains that they did nothing wrong then the NCAA can use that as justification to avoid punishment.

[nmduke2001]

Reading the UNC apologists on twitter is hilarious. One guy wrote, "show me one class that an athlete did not actually do their own work. UNC acknowledged that the classes were created by a secretary. That is a University problem not an athletic issue" (paraphrasing)

Ok, so 20 years of UNC athletes writing their name on a one page paper that wasn't graded is fine?

[DukieInKansas]

Reading the UNC apologists on twitter is hilarious. One guy wrote, "show me one class that an athlete did not actually do their own work. UNC acknowledged that the classes were created by a secretary. That is a University problem not an athletic issue" (paraphrasing)

Ok, so 20 years of UNC athletes writing their name on a one page paper that wasn't graded is fine?

Apparently, it would only be a problem if the tutor wrote their name for them.

[Eternal Outlaw]

Apparently, it would only be a problem if the tutor wrote their name for them.

McCants said tutors wrote his papers to ESPN but since he wouldn't talk to NCAA it wasn't a problem either.

[Dr. Rosenrosen]

McCants said tutors wrote his papers to ESPN but since he wouldn't talk to NCAA it wasn't a problem either.
I still wonder to this day how much he received from the sheep’s club emergency fund...

[75Crazie]

It pretty much comes down to the fact that the NCAA expects the schools to police themselves, and assumes some baseline level of morality and integrity. When other schools discover that rules were broken, they voluntarily report it and make efforts to rectify the situation and are punished accordingly by the NCAA. But in the case of UNC, they simply have no integrity and chose instead to deny any wrongdoing. They claimed that their previous written admission of wrongdoing was a typo, and they paid $18M in lawyers to find a loophole that they could exploit. Therefore, the NCAA was powerless to do anything about it; if the school maintains that they did nothing wrong then the NCAA can use that as justification to avoid punishment.
In other words, Missouri just did not follow the successful template that uNC had already demonstrated for beating the NCAA … or did not have supporters with deep enough pockets to be able to afford that strategy. Or … maybe it's just that Missouri has enough integrity to conform to the system put in place by the NCAA. So far, uNC is the only institution to show a complete lack of such integrity.

[PackMan97]

The good news is that no one (except Carolina fans) believes in the Carolina Way. It has been exposed as much of a sham as courses in the AFAM department.

[MChambers]

The good news is that no one (except Carolina fans) believes in the Carolina Way. It has been exposed as much of a sham as courses in the AFAM department.

I believe in it. I just don't believe it means what Carolina fans think it means. Almost exactly opposite, in fact.

[plimnko]

The good news is that no one (except Carolina fans) believes in the Carolina Way. It has been exposed as much of a sham as courses in the AFAM department.

missouri TRIED the carolina way. too bad they didn't get punished the carolina way.

[wsb3]

I still wonder to this day how much he received from the sheep’s club emergency fund...

Enough to go away. The hush money may equal or exceed the attorney fees. We will never know unless someone on the inside (the money handlers) grows a conscious.

I accept any penalty from the complete foolishness of my last sentence. :rolleyes:

[Rich]

The good news is that no one (except Carolina fans) believes in the Carolina Way. It has been exposed as much of a sham as courses in the AFAM department.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, your (presumably) local perspective is waaaaaaay different than the national (uninformed) perspective where no one even cares about the sham courses or the scandal and the Carolina Way is still what it's always been. The reputation of UNC is unchanged in the views of people here in the Northeast and, I suspect, everywhere else outside of the state of North Carolina.

[chrishoke]

I've said it before and I'll say it again, your (presumably) local perspective is waaaaaaay different than the national (uninformed) perspective where no one even cares about the sham courses or the scandal and the Carolina Way is still what it's always been. The reputation of UNC is unchanged in the views of people here in the Northeast and, I suspect, everywhere else outside of the state of North Carolina.

Not in Missouri.

[AGDukesky]

I've said it before and I'll say it again, your (presumably) local perspective is waaaaaaay different than the national (uninformed) perspective where no one even cares about the sham courses or the scandal and the Carolina Way is still what it's always been. The reputation of UNC is unchanged in the views of people here in the Northeast and, I suspect, everywhere else outside of the state of North Carolina.

Unfortunately my experience says the same thing. The most informed comment I get about the scandal is “oh yeah, I think I heard something about that...”

[jv001]

Unfortunately my experience says the same thing. The most informed comment I get about the scandal is “oh yeah, I think I heard something about that...”

You would have thought they heard about the fraud on ESPN. Oh, wait, never mind. GoDuke!

[CDu]

Missouri got punished similarly to how the UNC football program got punished when it was found that their tutor did their work back in the Butch Davis days.

Unfortunately, as noted above, the AFAM scandal was a different animal legally. They created sham classes for which the students met the "requirements", which allowed UNC to hide behind the "by the rules set forth by the course, it was legit..." And they included just enough regular students to "convince" the NCAA that it wasn't a purely athletics benefit. It was clever cheating at its heights. And because the NCAA has no teeth to do anything (and weren't willing to push it legally), UNC was able to skate.

What happened with the UNC athletics scandal was a crying shame, but unfortunately is apples to oranges compared with the Missouri issues.

[jv001]

Missouri got punished similarly to how the UNC football program got punished when it was found that their tutor did their work back in the Butch Davis days.

Unfortunately, as noted above, the AFAM scandal was a different animal legally. They created sham classes for which the students met the "requirements", which allowed UNC to hide behind the "by the rules set forth by the course, it was legit..." And they included just enough regular students to "convince" the NCAA that it wasn't a purely athletics benefit. It was clever cheating at its heights. And because the NCAA has no teeth to do anything (and weren't willing to push it legally), UNC was able to skate.

What happened with the UNC athletics scandal was a crying shame, but unfortunately is apples to oranges compared with the Missouri issues.

Yes, but it still sucks. :cool: GoDuke!

[CDu]

Yes, but it still sucks. :cool: GoDuke!

Agreed on both counts.

[TKG]

Yes, but it still sucks. :cool: GoDuke!

Yeah, well, so do The Holes!

[PackMan97]

And because the NCAA has no teeth to do anything (and weren't willing to push it legally), UNC was able to skate.

I disagree. The NCAA should have had more than enough balls to stand behind SACCS determination that it was academic fraud.

That they didn't is the worst part of this entire mess. When a Research I university gets put on probation for academic fraud it is a big deal. If I recall, UNC to this day remains the only major university put on probation by it's accrediting agency for academic fraud.

[MChambers]

I disagree. The NCAA should have had more than enough balls to stand behind SACCS determination that it was academic fraud.

That they didn't is the worst part of this entire mess. When a Research I university gets put on probation for academic fraud it is a big deal. If I recall, UNC to this day remains the only major university put on probation by it's accrediting agency for academic fraud.

If the fraud is blessed by senior leadership of the institution, it's still fraud.

[devildeac]

I disagree. The NCAA should have had more than enough balls to stand behind SACCS determination that it was academic fraud.

That they didn't is the worst part of this entire mess. When a Research I university gets put on probation for academic fraud it is a big deal. If I recall, UNC to this day remains the only major university put on probation by it's accrediting agency for academic fraud.


At least 10 years according to the article/quote below. I didn't research farther back than that.

From the Raleigh News and Observer 6/11/15:

https://www.wral.com/accrediting-organization-puts-unc-ch-on-12-month-probation/14704731/


"It's a big deal," said Belle Whelan, SACS president. "This issue was bigger than anything with which we’ve ever dealt, and it went on for longer than anything else. This is the first one I can recall in the 10 years I’ve been here that we put an institution on probation for academic fraud or academic integrity."