Zion Tee Shirt for Sale on Amazon

[Edouble]

Um, isn't this illegal?

https://www.amazon.com/Blue-Williamson-Great-Again-T-Shirt/dp/B07KQGVW69/ref=sr_1_54?keywords=kyrie+shirt&qid=1547863334&sr=8-54

I can't imagine that this is OK. I know it's not using Zion's likeness, like a photo, but still, it is pretty clear whom they are talking about.

If you can't put his name on a jersey and sell it, what makes this ok?

[uh_no]

Um, isn't this illegal?

https://www.amazon.com/Blue-Williamson-Great-Again-T-Shirt/dp/B07KQGVW69/ref=sr_1_54?keywords=kyrie+shirt&qid=1547863334&sr=8-54

I can't imagine that this is OK. I know it's not using Zion's likeness, like a photo, but still, it is pretty clear whom they are talking about.

If you can't put his name on a jersey and sell it, what makes this ok?

Duke's not selling it. Zion's not selling it.

The seller almost assuredly doesn't have the rights to sell that.

[moonpie23]

Duke's not selling it. Zion's not selling it.

The seller almost assuredly doesn't have the rights to sell that.

i'd get out my bag of lawyers.....

[HereBeforeCoachK]

One the one hand, it's very unlikely that these are authorized sales. On the other hand, it doesn't take sales away from Duke, and it spreads the word. The shirts look pretty good....

Now I'm not defending it....just saying it could be a net plus for Duke and Zion.

[hallcity]

Duke's not selling it. Zion's not selling it.

The seller almost assuredly doesn't have the rights to sell that.

Not to mention that it’s a pretty lame T. At least the Bagley T was cool.

[HereBeforeCoachK]

Not to mention that it’s a pretty lame T. At least the Bagley T was cool.

If you clicked through, there are some sweats that look better than the tees on the first home page.

[Edouble]

If you clicked through, there are some sweats that look better than the tees on the first home page.

Agree, the linked one is lame, but some of the other tees are cool.

[Devilwin]

Seen this one?
https://www.amazon.com/Go-All-Out-Deluxe-T-Shirt/dp/B07GQBJT3Z?psc=1&SubscriptionId=AKIAJ2F6RDUSIYCWQMFQ&tag=sa-sym-new-20&linkCode=xm2&camp=2025&creative=165953&creativeASIN=B07GQBJT3Z

[DtrainBuckshot]

Amazon has lots of interesting custom shirts, including this gem...

https://www.amazon.com/Exact-Change-Duke-9F-Shirt/dp/B07DTG5BRC/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1547869834&refinements=p_4%3AExact+Change&s=Clothing&sr=1-3
:cool:

[weezie]

Terrible shirts pictured, too.

[Neals384]

Seen this one?
https://www.amazon.com/Go-All-Out-Deluxe-T-Shirt/dp/B07GQBJT3Z?psc=1&SubscriptionId=AKIAJ2F6RDUSIYCWQMFQ&tag=sa-sym-new-20&linkCode=xm2&camp=2025&creative=165953&creativeASIN=B07GQBJT3Z

that silhouette is all wrong. Not muscular enough, not enough forehead, and the hair is, well, not Zion hair.

[BigWayne]

Um, isn't this illegal?

https://www.amazon.com/Blue-Williamson-Great-Again-T-Shirt/dp/B07KQGVW69/ref=sr_1_54?keywords=kyrie+shirt&qid=1547863334&sr=8-54

I can't imagine that this is OK. I know it's not using Zion's likeness, like a photo, but still, it is pretty clear whom they are talking about.

If you can't put his name on a jersey and sell it, what makes this ok?

Which Kyrie shirt did you go for?

[Gorilla]

And Zion is not seeing a dime from this. Yes Zion will be a future millionaire(potential billionaire) but people are profiting off of him and imo it isn't right

[HereBeforeCoachK]

And Zion is not seeing a dime from this. Yes Zion will be a future millionaire(potential billionaire) but people are profiting off of him and imo it isn't right

In the short run, you are right, in the long run, this IS free positive advertising for Zion, and for Duke. To me it's a bit of a victimless crime. If someone in Peoria Illinois pays 20 bucks for a Zion shirt, there is no reason to think that the 20 bucks came at the expense of a legitimate sale.

[Indoor66]

In the short run, you are right, in the long run, this IS free positive advertising for Zion, and for Duke. To me it's a bit of a victimless crime. If someone in Peoria Illinois pays 20 bucks for a Zion shirt, there is no reason to think that the 20 bucks came at the expense of a legitimate sale.

Isn't this inconsistent with the concept of copyright law?

[HereBeforeCoachK]

Isn't this inconsistent with the concept of copyright law?

Well I thought I made it clear I was not debating the LEGAL aspect of this. But since you asked, Copyright law is also often a victimless crime. Key word, often.

For example, when a new writer gets online, he or she hopes everybody WILL in fact use his/her words and spread them around. They often PAY people to do this. Then if the writer gets big, suddenly they want the exact opposite dynamic. Same with musicians and radio usage of their songs. And many other examples.

Another would be all the illegal Carolina Hurricane gear sold at road side stands during the unanticipated run to the Stanley Cup finals in 2002. When it happened again in 2006, the clamps had been put down on this. There was, in some ways, LESS buzz in 06 than in 02 (still a heckuva lotta buzz) - and I think partially as a result of this.

My only point is this: the more positive Duke tee shirts and sweats that are out in circulation, the better it is for Duke, even if some are sold illegally. Same with Zion. Again, not defending this legally, just saying I see a bright side to it.

[Papa John]

In the short run, you are right, in the long run, this IS free positive advertising for Zion, and for Duke. To me it's a bit of a victimless crime. If someone in Peoria Illinois pays 20 bucks for a Zion shirt, there is no reason to think that the 20 bucks came at the expense of a legitimate sale.

Victimless? It’s misappropriation, unless Zion has authorized the use (which I highly doubt, as I imagine it would likely result in his being ineligible).

[IrishDevil]

Isn't this inconsistent with the concept of copyright law?

I would think more invasion of privacy/misappropriation of likeness for commercial gain.

While I’m not sure I agree with HBCK in general sentiments re: copyright law, I will agree that this just further demonstrates and magnifies the strength of Zion’s brand, so why not roll with it. Duke may have greater legal concerns depending on the specific design, though, so they may need to pay closer attention than Zion.

[HereBeforeCoachK]

Victimless? It’s misappropriation, unless Zion has authorized the use (which I highly doubt, as I imagine it would likely result in his being ineligible).

Again, you are arguing the legal - which we DO NOT DISAGREE on. But a victim is someone harmed...my point is that if positive publicity is worth anything (and it clearly is) then Duke and Zion are actually being helped. If you disagree with this, then you disagree that there is any value to positive publicity.

I'm a writer. My stuff gets linked and cut and paste all the time without my "permission." I like that. I am also a business owner. An employee embezzled 200 thousand from us in 2006-2008. I did NOT like that.

Legally, I was a victim both times. Legally, something was appropriated from me both times. But c'mon, can't you see the difference?

In the Carolina Hurricanes example I used in another post, my wife and kids went to what was surely an unauthorized road side stand and spent maybe 50 bucks in gear. They did it to make fun of me, as I was the only one in the family who cared about the team. As a result, my family kind of became "Caniacs" and as a result, we ended up as season tix holders for many years, in the club level, so that 50 bucks in pirated gear indirectly led to tens and tens of thousands of dollars in revenue for the Canes they may not have had otherwise.

[Rich]

Again, you are arguing the legal - which we DO NOT DISAGREE on. But a victim is someone harmed...my point is that if positive publicity is worth anything (and it clearly is) then Duke and Zion are actually being helped. If you disagree with this, then you disagree that there is any value to positive publicity.

I'm a writer. My stuff gets linked and cut and paste all the time without my "permission." I like that. I am also a business owner. An employee embezzled 200 thousand from us in 2006-2008. I did NOT like that.

Legally, I was a victim both times. Legally, something was appropriated from me both times. But c'mon, can't you see the difference?

In the Carolina Hurricanes example I used in another post, my wife and kids went to what was surely an unauthorized road side stand and spent maybe 50 bucks in gear. They did it to make fun of me, as I was the only one in the family who cared about the team. As a result, my family kind of became "Caniacs" and as a result, we ended up as season tix holders for many years, in the club level, so that 50 bucks in pirated gear indirectly led to tens and tens of thousands of dollars in revenue for the Canes they may not have had otherwise.

Well, there is an argument that both Duke and Zion may be victims to this crime if the quality of the merchandise is total crap and falls apart or runs after one washing, the consumer believes that Duke and/or Zion authorized the product, and then swears to never buy another piece of Duke/Zion merchandise ever again.

As a former IP lawyer for the NBA, as a matter of practice we went around with local police during the Conference and NBA Finals with a civil seizure order and confiscated such crap merchandise. We also conducted raids at flee markets and in other warehouses and confiscated unauthorized merchandise. While we were certainly protecting our economic interests because we obviously preferred that consumers purchase authorized product (for which we received a royalty), there have been studies that counterfeit merchandise (even things like t-shirts) have a link to organized crime.

Generally, there's no big outcry over counterfeit merchandise since many people take your position that it's "victimless", and as a result the penalties are pretty low, so it's easy fodder for organized crime to make a quick buck with little risk. But I can assure you that the risk to society is pretty extreme considering the same people who make fake t-shirts also make counterfeit baby formula, counterfeit "authorized" auto parts, and counterfeit pharmaceuticals. I trust you would agree crimes are not "victimless" when a baby takes Similac with all sorts of crud in it, a brake fails because its part had no quality control, or your heart medicine doesn't do what it's supposed to.

[HereBeforeCoachK]

Well, there is an argument that both Duke and Zion may be victims to this crime if the quality of the merchandise is total crap and falls apart or runs after one washing, the consumer believes that Duke and/or Zion authorized the product, and then swears to never buy another piece of Duke/Zion merchandise ever again.

As a former IP lawyer for the NBA, as a matter of practice we went around with local police during the Conference and NBA Finals with a civil seizure order and confiscated such crap merchandise. We also conducted raids at flee markets and in other warehouses and confiscated unauthorized merchandise. While we were certainly protecting our economic interests because we obviously preferred that consumers purchase authorized product (for which we received a royalty), there have been studies that counterfeit merchandise (even things like t-shirts) have a link to organized crime.

Generally, there's no big outcry over counterfeit merchandise since many people take your position that it's "victimless", and as a result the penalties are pretty low, so it's easy fodder for organized crime to make a quick buck with little risk. But I can assure you that the risk to society is pretty extreme considering the same people who make fake t-shirts also make counterfeit baby formula, counterfeit "authorized" auto parts, and counterfeit pharmaceuticals. I trust you would agree crimes are not "victimless" when a baby takes Similac with all sorts of crud in it, a brake fails because its part had no quality control, or your heart medicine doesn't do what it's supposed to.

Geez dude...the merchandise falling apart and the customer blaming Duke? So lame.
Organized crime selling tee shirts ON THE WEB? Str------------eeee-----------------------tch.

Ya'll go ahead and worry about this deeply. Meanwhile, I'll look on the bright side.....

[CameronBornAndBred]

that silhouette is all wrong. Not muscular enough, not enough forehead, and the hair is, well, not Zion hair.

Which all may lend to why if challenged, that shirt could survive a lawsuit. (Although I'd doubt they would fight one if threatened.)

They can easily argue that "zion" is merely a word, and the silhouette is a generic player.

[Edouble]

Which Kyrie shirt did you go for?

I am going to the Notre Dame at Georgia Tech basketball game with a (Notre Dame alum) friend on Tuesday.

I was asked to wear green, so I went looking for a Kyrie Celtics tee, but surprisingly couldn't find anything that would arrive on time!

I liked this one well enough:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07G1TDNYP/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=A8Q9M2AYHKE1I&psc=1

I'll have to find something green around town.