Coach K: Tre Jones to return soonish

[JasonEvans]

K says Tre will be back sooner than feared... I'm getting more details. One moment!

[Owen Meany]

Coach K in The Athletic- Tre Jones' injury is "not going to be long-term".

[JasonEvans]

K says Tre will be back sooner than feared... I'm getting more details. One moment!

From The Athletic (https://theathletic.com/773522/2019/01/17/krzyzewski-tre-jones-injury-is-not-going-to-be-long-term/):


Duke initially announced that
Jones, diagnosed with an AC sprain, would be out indefinitely, but
Krzyzewski said the timeline isn’t nearly as ominous as it sounds. “I
don’t know if it’s for this game or the next game, but it’s not going
to be long term, where it’s a month or something,’’ said Krzyzewski,
who termed the AC sprain slightly worse than a grade one. “He’s going
to be back.’’ Krzyzewski didn’t rule out Jones for Saturday, but he
believes it’s unlikely he’ll play.

[HereBeforeCoachK]

From The Athletic (https://theathletic.com/773522/2019/01/17/krzyzewski-tre-jones-injury-is-not-going-to-be-long-term/):

ALRIGHT.....can put away the vodka now, and chill with some wine....

[kAzE]

LET'S GOOOOOO!!!

That's the best news we could possibly hope for!

HUGE sigh of relief.

[scottdude8]

So now that there is some firm evidence about the injury does this vigil cease to become a vigil? Haha.

In all seriousness, this is obviously great news, but it's something I think we should all learn from: initial pain doesn't always correlate with the severity of an injury! People have torn their ACLs and continued walking around/playing on them before realizing the severity of the injury... meanwhile, cramps can be the most painful thing in the world and make you think a player's career is done, only for them to return in a few minutes. When it comes to this type of stuff, as fun as it is to catastrophize on an online message board, we all need to learn to breathe until we get some concrete facts.

Who am I kidding, that'll never happen, haha. Onto the vigil for the next vigil! :)

[DU82]

I can hear this coming from down the road eight miles:

So once again, indefinite at Duke means one game. (Possibly zero this time.)

[scottdude8]

I can hear this coming from down the road eight miles:

So once again, indefinite at Duke means one game. (Possibly zero this time.)

Those 8 miles down the road must not own any dictionaries (not too surprising, haha):
in·def·i·nite
/ˌinˈdef(ə)nət/
adjective
lasting for an unknown or unstated length of time.

We didn't know how long Tre would be out for. Now we do. Word used correctly! Honestly, if you're going to be coy about injuries there's no reason not to say that all the time, haha.

[flyingdutchdevil]

UUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUGE!

I was worried Tre would be gone until March.

It's only been ~35 min of play but I already miss Tre's defense.

[kAzE]

If we beat Virginia this weekend, the ACC regular season championship seems well within reach. You guys can stop diminishing the worth of the regular season title now :)

[Billy Dat]

Great news!!!!!!!

[scottdude8]

New theory: severity of injury is inversely proportional to severity of the initial reaction.

Think of our two most recent, important PG injuries... Kyrie stubs his toe, plays through it, but is out the rest of the year basically. Tre hurts his shoulder, seems to be in horrible pain, and misses the remainder of the game, but may be back within a week.

Basketball fandom is not for the faint-hearted ;)

[rdearth15]

This is the literally the best news any of us could have hoped for after seeing Tre go down like that.

I am still excited and intrigued to see what K has planned for Virginia, with Tre (presumably) out, and nearly a full week to practice.

Let's make some noise this weekend with or without Tre!!!!!



As Quinn Cook so eloquently put it...... "Duke is never the underdog"

[BeachBlueDevil]

From The Athletic (https://theathletic.com/773522/2019/01/17/krzyzewski-tre-jones-injury-is-not-going-to-be-long-term/):


Misses only a few games, get some other guys some run, and build some confidence in them. This injury might actually end up being beneficial in some weird way to the team.

[hallcity]

I wonder. What are the rules or ethical practices on giving a player a shot of cortisone and a numbing agent and sticking him in a game? Obviously, you don't do that if it risks making the injury worse but otherwise is it acceptable? Would it be against NCAA rules or accepted training practices?

[HereBeforeCoachK]

Misses only a few games, get some other guys some run, and build some confidence in them. This injury might actually end up being beneficial in some weird way to the team.

I wouldn't say that situation is weird.....i'd say it's rather common for the reasons you mentioned. Duke benefitted from Boozer's injury in 2001 IMO.....as they worked him back in, they became a better team. That was due to other players getting some run, and Boozer seeming to have noticed some things from the sidelines that helped him become better.

[billy]

I wonder. What are the rules or ethical practices on giving a player a shot of cortisone and a numbing agent and sticking him in a game? Obviously, you don't do that if it risks making the injury worse but otherwise is it acceptable? Would it be against NCAA rules or accepted training practices?

With no comment about the ethics of doing so, it happens all the time. Ty Lawson comes to mind mentioning injections getting him by at UNC years ago. Here’s a link: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.dailypress.com/sports/dp-spt_lawson_0402apr02-story,amp.html Hopefully they’re used only in situations where there is limited risk of further injury from doing so.

[Acymetric]

From The Athletic (https://theathletic.com/773522/2019/01/17/krzyzewski-tre-jones-injury-is-not-going-to-be-long-term/):

Duke initially announced that
Jones, diagnosed with an AC sprain, would be out indefinitely, but
Krzyzewski said the timeline isn’t nearly as ominous as it sounds. “I
don’t know if it’s for this game or the next game, but it’s not going
to be long term, where it’s a month or something,’’ said Krzyzewski,
who termed the AC sprain slightly worse than a grade one. “He’s going
to be back.’’ Krzyzewski didn’t rule out Jones for Saturday, but he
believes it’s unlikely he’ll play.


Maybe this should be its own thread, or at least edited into the OP for the thread? Even with the "announcement" added to the title, it took a bit of searching, and since it was posted as a quote it doesn't even show up when people quote JE (unless, like me, you go and deliberately copy paste the announcement back into the quote). Kind of hard to find, and will get harder as more posts come in.

[OldPhiKap]

K says Tre will be back sooner than feared... I'm getting more details. One moment!

Thanks to you, or whichever Mod, changed the title of the thread to indicate an update. Very helpful.

[bbosbbos]

Great news.

[mattman91]

Great vigil folks. It worked!

[simplyluvin]

Amazing news! Two thoughts: 1) prayer works! and 2) this may be a shot in the arm the team needs for Saturday, whether Tre plays or not.

[flyingdutchdevil]

Great vigil folks. It worked!

This offsets the Kyrie toe vigil.

[devildeac]

I wonder. What are the rules or ethical practices on giving a player a shot of cortisone and a numbing agent and sticking him in a game? Obviously, you don't do that if it risks making the injury worse but otherwise is it acceptable? Would it be against NCAA rules or accepted training practices?

Please, please, please, don't let it be the Clemson "energy" drink or "nutritional" supplement. :o:rolleyes:

[DavidBenAkiva]

What a deep sign of relief! I love the specificity in the article, that the X-Ray is negative, Tre Jones is working with the trainer every day, etc. All really great signs.

[lotusland]

Idk if we can trust K quote when we have the Instagram posts thingy directly contradicting it:)

[CDu]

That is fantastic news! Hopefully Barrett and Reddish take this opportunity Saturday to step up in Jones' absence, and then hopefully that is the only game Jones misses. Obviously losing the Syracuse game sucked, and (likely) not having Jones for the UVa home game sucks, but this is about as good news as one can hope for with regards to the injury. Woohoo!

[proelitedota]

Looking at the video of him walking to the locker room, there is no evidence, to me, of a bump that would indicated a grade II or III AC joint separation. That said, I have no idea if the bump is something takes time to form or is present in all grades of separation.

Tre Jones could very well suit up for the game Saturday. At the worst I think he is out 5 weeks.

Where can I get my MD degree certification...

Have seen a doctor that can make a correct diagnosis from a few seconds of video? I don't think so...

[uh_no]

Idk if we can trust K quote when we have the Instagram posts thingy directly contradicting it:)

Well it turns out the atnlantic's source is just that K created an instagram account solely to ask users to redirect their potential JG follows to Tre instead. From this, the rest of the conclusions in the article arise quite naturally.

[killerleft]

If we beat Virginia this weekend, the ACC regular season championship seems well within reach. You guys can stop diminishing the worth of the regular season title now :)

So true!;)

[killerleft]

This is the literally the best news any of us could have hoped for after seeing Tre go down like that.

I am still excited and intrigued to see what K has planned for Virginia, with Tre (presumably) out, and nearly a full week to practice.

Let's make some noise this weekend with or without Tre!!!!!As Quinn Cook so eloquently put it... "Duke is never the underdog"

If you can get me inside Cameron, I'll make more noise than you can shake a megaphone at!!!!!:)

[WVDUKEFAN]

‘We don’t want to completely change,’’ Krzyzewski said, “because he’s going to be back.’’

YEAH BABY

[lotusland]

‘We don’t want to completely change,’’ Krzyzewski said, “because he’s going to be back.’’

YEAH BABY

So, in other words, we aren’t going to change R.J. or Cam’s role. Instead we’ll mostly sub JGold and AOC in Tre’s spot. This also totally validates the Instagram posts heralding the arrival of JGold!

[uh_no]

So, in other words, we aren’t going to change R.J. or Cam’s role. Instead we’ll mostly sub JGold and AOC in Tre’s spot. This also totally validates the Instagram posts heralding the arrival of JGold!

Does the man have a snapchat account? If not, we should make him one. If anyone comes across him on tinder, be sure to swipe right!!!

[proelitedota]

Don't kid yourself Barrett will be the primary ball-handler against UVA.

[House G]

UUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUGE!

I was worried Tre would be gone until March.

It's only been ~35 min of play but I already miss Tre's defense.

Yeah, his defense is head and shoulders above anyone else’s.

[proelitedota]

Yeah, his defense is head and shoulders above anyone else’s.

Any team armed with his defense gets raised at least 10 spots on Kenpom.

[Troublemaker]

This is great news, mostly for the finishing kick of the season starting mid February. Because the schedule is about to lighten up after Saturday, I actually am not sure we add any wins with Tre being out only 1-2 games as opposed to being out 6 games. BUT, it would've been a major pain in the butt to re-integrate him into the lineup just as the schedule hardens again in mid Feb, and there would've been crucial development time lost by the team. We sometimes forget, but when you start 4 freshmen, they still have a lot to learn and are constantly growing and building chemistry with each other. Every game that we can get these guys to play together is another game towards reaching our potential.

[bluedev_92]

Great news- I’m PSYCHED!! Now we need to take care of UVA.

[sagegrouse]

Yeah, his defense is head and shoulders above anyone else’s.

Even though everyone else's head and shoulders seem to be above his.

I look forward to seeing Tre back in the line-up -- soon!

[Duke76]

Thanks to you, or whichever Mod, changed the title of the thread to indicate an update. Very helpful.

Yes and it would also be very helpful if Tre would avoid diving for loose balls anymore. I don't mind the big guys doing it but Tre really looks awkward doing it anyway and with what happened I just don't think it is worth it for him to do so. Not sure if K would so instruct him but can only hope, imo.

[rthomas]

So happy for Tre regardless of this game or next.

[kako]

8959

9f

[JasonEvans]

Previous thread has been locked so this one will stand out as it should.

[richardjackson199]

Previous thread has been locked so this one will stand out as it should.

Thanks! Let's hopefully lock up these vigils for good. Lock up the Zion one too while you're at it if you want.

Like K said, Duke isn't going to change because they're all coming back.

[jv001]

Thanks! Let's hopefully lock up these vigils for good. Lock up the Zion one too while you're at it if you want.

Like K said, Duke isn't going to change because they're all coming back.

And please no more "this player over another in the starting rotation". GoDuke!

[richardjackson199]

So do we think the dude on Twitter had actual information?

Or was it a cheat hole troll trying to give Duke fans false hope for what he thought would be an extended, devastating injury?

If it's the latter, our sincere thanks for the reverse jinx.

9F

[Bluedevil114]

So do we think the dude on Twitter had actual information?

Or was it a cheat hole troll trying to give Duke fans false hope for what he thought would be an extended, devastating injury?

If it's the latter, our sincere thanks for the reverse jinx.

9F

Who cares. 😉

More importantly. 9F

[jipops]

Such great news. It still is a major setback in that it is highly likely that Duke is eliminated from yet another regular season ACC title after this weekend. But it still could have been so.much.worse. The team won’t have to go so long without him so that he would have to be reintegrated into the offense. His first game back, coming sooner than later, probably won’t be seamless. But we’ll still have the meat of the season left.

[Dukehk]

This is just incredible news. It’s been an emotional rollercoaster! Hopefully tre comes back 100% healthy.

[uh_no]

Such great news. It still is a major setback in that it is highly likely that Duke is eliminated from yet another regular season ACC title after this weekend. But it still could have been so.much.worse. The team won’t have to go so long without him so that he would have to be reintegrated into the offense. His first game back, coming sooner than later, probably won’t be seamless. But we’ll still have the meat of the season left.

a bit over dramatic. eliminated?

[dukelifer]

Such great news. It still is a major setback in that it is highly likely that Duke is eliminated from yet another regular season ACC title after this weekend. But it still could have been so.much.worse. The team won’t have to go so long without him so that he would have to be reintegrated into the offense. His first game back, coming sooner than later, probably won’t be seamless. But we’ll still have the meat of the season left.

There is a chance that Duke will be able to rally around this news. It will be a tough game- but not one that cannot be won. Need to play it out.

[Furniture]

https://mobile.twitter.com/GameDayCharlie/status/1086019328825270272

[Furniture]

https://mobile.twitter.com/mrs_jackwhite

Can you believe that there is a Mrs Jack White?

[53n206]

https://mobile.twitter.com/mrs_jackwhite

Can you believe that there is a Mrs Jack White?

Jack is our man.

[Dukehk]

Does this actually mean that Tre is going to be a game time decision on Saturday?

Wouldn't want to rush him back if he is injured, but how incredible and uplifting it would be for the team if he was made available on the weekend.

[Steven43]

And please no more "this player over another in the starting rotation". GoDuke!
Gee whiz. Not meaning to pick on you personally, jv001, but some of y’all are acting traumatized or something. Is it okay for us to just be fans voicing our OPINIONS — however lame they may be — to other fans? This stuff is sometimes taken a bit too seriously.

[BD80]

ALRIGHT....can put away the vodka now, and chill with some wine...

Wwwwaaayyyyy to late to switch from vodka. Best hope is to taper off ...


I wonder. What are the rules or ethical practices on giving a player a shot of cortisone and a numbing agent and sticking him in a game? Obviously, you don't do that if it risks making the injury worse but otherwise is it acceptable? Would it be against NCAA rules or accepted training practices?

I'm more a fan of modern engineering. Have the BME department rig up some Kevlar/titanium protective enclosure that will dish out punishment tenfold above what is received!

[jv001]

Gee whiz. Not meaning to pick on you personally, jv001, but some of y’all are acting traumatized or something. Is it okay for us to just be fans voicing our OPINIONS — however lame they may be — to other fans? This stuff is sometimes taken a bit too seriously.

Not too serious here, but I'm one of those old school ball players that don't like to jinx my team. Like don't cross those baseball bats, don't say "can of corn" on outfield fly, quick call my putts, etc. :cool: GoDuke!

[UrinalCake]

Just found out that Duke has unveiled its new uniforms for Saturday’s game:

8960

[Tripping William]

TDD reporting that Tre Jones "participated" in practice yesterday, out of his sling and doing some individual work on the court. Progress.

[scottdude8]

Could this be an abbreviated Ryan Kelly redux?

[jv001]

Could this be an abbreviated Ryan Kelly redux?

I doubt that Tre scores as many points as Kelly did in his first game back from injury, but I'll take the same Tre that we had before his injury. I love his defense and his cool manner on the court. GoDuke!

[kako]

I doubt that Tre scores as many points as Kelly did in his first game back from injury...

That Miami game was fantastic, I remember it well. Kelly likely cemented his draft status there and then. That game has significance for me personally, won't go into it here. But I wonder where Kelly is now. He was in the Spanish League. But when I search it up, I don't see him there anymore.

Anyway, would love to see Jones pull a Willis Reed on Saturday. He comes out of the tunnel late, starts, assists Barrett off the tap, then gets a steal and a bucket on following possession... then sits as Duke's momentum in Cameron sweeps UVA away.

9F

[uh_no]

That Miami game was fantastic, I remember it well. Kelly likely cemented his draft status there and then. That game has significance for me personally, won't go into it here. But I wonder where Kelly is now. He was in the Spanish League. But when I search it up, I don't see him there anymore.

Anyway, would love to see Jones pull a Willis Reed on Saturday. He comes out of the tunnel late, starts, assists Barrett off the tap, then gets a steal and a bucket on following possession... then sits as Duke's momentum in Cameron sweeps UVA away.

9F

Was watching at tyler's...great time...remember the "i still got it"

unfortunately he never played to that level for the rest of his tenure. I don't know if we would have beaten UL with how poorly we handled the press and ball screen, but it certainly would have helped.

[HereBeforeCoachK]

Was watching at tyler's...great time...remember the "i still got it"

unfortunately he never played to that level for the rest of his tenure. I don't know if we would have beaten UL with how poorly we handled the press and ball screen, but it certainly would have helped.

Strangest thing I've seen...Kelly's best game ever at Duke was that game, and it's like he slowly went downhill after that game by game. Most counter intuitive thing...makes no logical sense at all. But we all saw it.

[BandAlum83]

What’s totally insane is that Tre had 4 steals and 2 assists in under 6 minutes against Syracuse. I would love to see him take the floor against UVA.

[HereBeforeCoachK]

What’s totally insane is that Tre had 4 steals and 2 assists in under 6 minutes against Syracuse. I would love to see him take the floor against UVA.

And the Duke team not named Tre only had 4 steals in a full 40 minutes of action....so that's 4 steals in 6 minutes for Tre, and 4 steals in 219 minutes (quick math pre coffee) for the rest of the guys.

[BD80]

And the Duke team not named Tre only had 4 steals in a full 40 minutes of action...so that's 4 steals in 6 minutes for Tre, and 4 steals in 219 minutes (quick math pre coffee) for the rest of the guys.

Took your math courses at unc with the basketball players?

[HereBeforeCoachK]

Took your math courses at unc with the basketball players?

5 players X 40 = 200
5 players X 5 = 25 (overtime)
Tre's minutes (6)
219

What am I missing?

[BD80]

5 players X 40 = 200
5 players X 5 = 25 (overtime)
Tre's minutes (6)
219

What am I missing?

I was missing the OT …

I DID take my reading comprehension class with basketball players at unc

[HereBeforeCoachK]

I was missing the OT …

I DID take my reading comprehension class with basketball players at unc

That's what I figured....:)

We'e all been there....

[NYBri]

I was Tres worried. Now, Tres Bien.

[TKG]

With the UVA win do we give Tre more time to heal by sitting him against Pitt and Ga Tech?

[curtis325]

With the UVA win do we give Tre more time to heal by sitting him against Pitt and Ga Tech?

I expect he will play when he is ready and not before.

[TKG]

I expect he will play when he is ready and not before.

I posed the question as there was so much speculation that we might see him tonight that I interpreted as him being close. I agree with your comment but was suggesting we might have an option to rest him just a bit more given our next two opponents.

[proelitedota]

DUKE IS BETTER WITHOUT TRE. :p

JK. Hope he recovers and helps us avoid a hungover game against Pitt.

[BD80]

With the UVA win do we give Tre more time to heal by sitting him against Pitt and Ga Tech?

He wasn't moving that right arm too much tonight ...

[uh_no]

He wasn't moving that right arm too much tonight ...

he was fine giving people high fives....

[uh_no]

it is highly likely that Duke is eliminated from yet another regular season ACC title after this weekend.

This post did not age well :) :) :)

[Troublemaker]

I posed the question as there was so much speculation that we might see him tonight that I interpreted as him being close. I agree with your comment but was suggesting we might have an option to rest him just a bit more given our next two opponents.

If we're not going to trust Alex with Tre out, I'd like to see Tre back soon. If we're going to play 5 guys 40 minutes, one of those 40-minute guys might become more susceptible to injury.

[uh_no]

If we're not going to trust Alex with Tre out, I'd like to see Tre back soon. If we're going to play 5 guys 40 minutes, one of those 40-minute guys might become more susceptible to injury.

I don't think the quality of the opponent should dictate when tre returns. If he's cleared, he should play. Period. This team will be best if the presumed starting PG in march has as much time playing with the other 4 guys who are going to be on the floor. The postseason is not that far away....throwing away games worth of play-time is not something we can afford, even if we can presumably still win those games.

My understanding is that the risk of re-injury of a low-grade AC sprain is pretty low....so if the doctors clear him and he can manage the discomfort, it seems there is no reason to consider NOT playing him.

[CDu]

If we're not going to trust Alex with Tre out, I'd like to see Tre back soon. If we're going to play 5 guys 40 minutes, one of those 40-minute guys might become more susceptible to injury.

Yep, and we have a behemoth that is testing the bounds of physics as is. The less we ask Williamson to play 40, the better.

[CameronBornAndBred]

DURHAM, N.C. -- In the run-up to Duke's showdown with Virginia on Saturday night, Mike Krzyzewski left it open-ended enough to drum up hope that point guard Tre Jones could play. Afterward, the Blue Devils coach admitted Jones -- out with a separated shoulder -- wasn't close.
"He wasn't going to play," Krzyzewski said after the 72-70 victory over Virginia. "We made that decision [Friday]. He just doesn't have enough movement yet."

Soooo, this vigil will likely continue for a while. At least we saw what this team, led by a Coach who is a master at finding ways, can do with Tre on the bench.

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/25804877/duke-blue-devils-beat-virginia-cavaliers-tre-jones

[gofurman]

Soooo, this vigil will likely continue for a while. At least we saw what this team, led by a Coach who is a master at finding ways, can do with Tre on the bench.

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/25804877/duke-blue-devils-beat-virginia-cavaliers-tre-jones

" Afterwards the Blue Devils coach admitted Jones wasn't close"
Hmm. Not close? I hope we are still on the 2 week max track for Tre to return.
Hope the "he is better than initially thought" is still right?

[uh_no]

" Afterwards the Blue Devils coach admitted Jones wasn't close"
Hmm. Not close? I hope we are still on the 2 week max track for Tre to return.
Hope the "he is better than initially thought" is still right?

gotta keep next opponent coach on their toes as to whether he'll play or not!!!

[Nugget]

" Afterwards the Blue Devils coach admitted Jones wasn't close"
Hmm. Not close? I hope we are still on the 2 week max track for Tre to return.
Hope the "he is better than initially thought" is still right?

This is some sloppy journalism. Note that the phrase "not close" is not in quotes in the story - because K didn't say that, let alone "admit it."

And where did you get the notion there was a "2 week max" track?

K has said two things re timetable:

(1) he does not expect Tre to be out a month;

(2) there is no other timetable

[devildeac]

Sounds like we still need that vigil thread open...

[Devilwin]

uh no is absolutely right. As soon as he is able, he should go, because the team's chemistry needs to be solid post season.:cool:

[gofurman]

This is some sloppy journalism. Note that the phrase "not close" is not in quotes in the story - because K didn't say that, let alone "admit it."

And where did you get the notion there was a "2 week max" track?

K has said two things re timetable:

(1) he does not expect Tre to be out a month;

(2) there is no other timetable

2 week max was just my own take. Nothing more - I figure if he was iffy this week then 2 weeks is a good guess.

[Fish80]

" Afterwards the Blue Devils coach admitted Jones wasn't close"
Hmm. Not close? I hope we are still on the 2 week max track for Tre to return.
Hope the "he is better than initially thought" is still right?

There are only two rules for separated shoulder injury recovery timetable:
1. There is no timetable.
2. There is no timetable.

Tre will be back when he is back.

[budwom]

yeah, K said he didn't have full range of motion. No one including K knows when he will, I think it's that simple.

[Ltrey33]

This is some sloppy journalism. Note that the phrase "not close" is not in quotes in the story - because K didn't say that, let alone "admit it."

And where did you get the notion there was a "2 week max" track?

K has said two things re timetable:

(1) he does not expect Tre to be out a month;

(2) there is no other timetable

Right? It’s imprecise wording that makes it sound (potentially) worse than it is.

[rsvman]

Yep, and we have a behemoth that is testing the bounds of physics as is. The less we ask Williamson to play 40, the better.

To Zion there are no "laws" of physics. He sees them as merely suggestions.

[OldPhiKap]

To Zion there are no "laws" of physics. He sees them as merely suggestions.

Gravity is a theory to which he does not subscribe.

[Tripping William]

Gravity is a theory to which he does not subscribe.

And he is both the irresistible force AND the immovable object!

[HereBeforeCoachK]

Gravity is a theory to which he does not subscribe.

...he does a number on inertia from time to time also.....

[Owen Meany]

In the N&O.
He’s not going to play unless something miraculous happens,” Krzyzewski said Monday.

On a more positive note
"
He’s making really good progress, which is good because it looked like he might be out for most of the season, ” Krzyzewski said.

[HereBeforeCoachK]

In the N&O.
He’s not going to play unless something miraculous happens,” Krzyzewski said Monday.

On a more positive note
"
He’s making really good progress, which is good because it looked like he might be out for most of the season, ” Krzyzewski said.

Have we been played?

[wavedukefan70s]

Have we been played?

Or are we being played.maybe he plays Tuesday and it's a surprise.
The first rule of fight club.

[scottdude8]

Have we been played?

I don't think so... I think this could easily be a situation of quotes being taken out of context. K has already said that in the initial aftermath of the injury the fear was he might be gone for the year, but that fear was abated by the x-ray and his improvement last week. I think the proper way to read those two quotes is more along the lines of, "It's highly unlikely Tre plays tomorrow, but considering a week ago we feared he might be gone for the season, even the possibility of him playing is a huge positive sign."

[ncexnyc]

Come on Tre man up. Frank Castle dislocated his shoulder in Season 2 of The Punisher and popped it back into place all by his lonesome and then proceeded to kick some major butt.:D

[HereBeforeCoachK]

Or are we being played.maybe he plays Tuesday and it's a surprise.
The first rule of fight club.

ah, taquiya

[wavedukefan70s]

Come on Tre man up. Frank Castle dislocated his shoulder in Season 2 of The Punisher and popped it back into place all by his lonesome and then proceeded to kick some major butt.:D

Martin riggs did it in at least two lethal weapon movies.

[wavedukefan70s]

ah, taquiya

yumkin

[Indoor66]

Send Tre to Hollyweird for the cure....

[Troublemaker]

Have we been played?

Keep in mind we're still several hours away from it even being a full week since the injury. In fandom time, it can feel a lot longer than that. But, based on the recovery times that people posted on here for AC joint sprains (some googled, some from MDs), playing at Pitt would've been ambitious since Tre's AC joint sprain has been referred to as slightly worse than Grade I.

Saturday is what I'm hoping for.

[wavedukefan70s]

I have not been this confident in a team since Elton brand and company .we are very good with out Jones. We are absolutely astonishing with him. Tennessee is good. But when jones gets back and reacquainted they are not good enough to beat Duke most nights.

[gofurman]

Come on Tre man up. Frank Castle dislocated his shoulder in Season 2 of The Punisher and popped it back into place all by his lonesome and then proceeded to kick some major butt.:D

Not that important but that’s a dislocation. This is a separated AC. I didn’t know the difference until this

[BD80]

...
The first rule of fight club.

Never get involved in a land war in Asia?

[MChambers]

Come on Tre man up. Frank Castle dislocated his shoulder in Season 2 of The Punisher and popped it back into place all by his lonesome and then proceeded to kick some major butt.:D

I'm pretty sure Chris Carrawell did that at Duke, as a player, once or twice. And I won't even discuss what Patrick Davidson did.

[wavedukefan70s]

Never get involved in a land war in Asia?

Never bet against a sicilian when death is on the line.😁

[WVDUKEFAN]

Never bet against a Sicilian.

[BD80]

Never bet against a Sicilian.

Sounds like a pie bet

[Steven43]

I have not been this confident in a team since Elton brand and company .we are very good with out Jones. We are absolutely astonishing with him. Tennessee is good. But when jones gets back and reacquainted they are not good enough to beat Duke most nights.

I really want to agree with these sentiments, but with such poor FT and 3-point shooting I just don’t see Duke winning 6 straight games against increasingly difficult competition. I don’t see how it’s possible without a somewhat significant improvement in both areas.

How can a team suddenly improve its FT and 3-point shooting after the midway point in the season? Joey Baker plus significantly more minutes for AOC? Doubtful either of those is going to happen. So how then? I wish I had an answer.

[TruBlu]

I really want to agree with these sentiments, but with such poor FT and 3-point shooting I just don’t see Duke winning 6 straight games against increasingly difficult competition. I don’t see how it’s possible without a somewhat significant improvement in both areas.

How can a team suddenly improve its FT and 3-point shooting after the midway point in the season? Joey Baker plus significantly more minutes for AOC? Doubtful either of those is going to happen. So how then? I wish I had an answer.

The team-wide slump is about over? (wishful thinking)

[CDu]

I really want to agree with these sentiments, but with such poor FT and 3-point shooting I just don’t see Duke winning 6 straight games against increasingly difficult competition. I don’t see how it’s possible without a somewhat significant improvement in both areas.

How can a team suddenly improve its FT and 3-point shooting after the midway point in the season? Joey Baker plus significantly more minutes for AOC? Doubtful either of those is going to happen. So how then? I wish I had an answer.

We just beat another likely one seed despite not having our PG, despite shooting poorly from the line, and despite being awful from 3. We can win six games in March/April.

Will we do it? Time will tell. But if we do, it will be thanks to elite defense and athleticism along with some really smart players.

Making 3s is one way to win a title. But we unfortunately only have to look back to 2017 to see an example of a poor-shooting team winning it all.

[Steven43]

We just beat another likely one seed despite not having our PG, despite shooting poorly from the line, and despite being awful from 3. We can win six games in March/April.

Will we do it? Time will tell. But if we do, it will be thanks to elite defense and athleticism along with some really smart players.

Making 3s is one way to win a title. But we unfortunately only have to look back to 2017 to see an example of a poor-shooting team winning it all.
I hope to god you’re right. But beating a team, ANY team, in Cameron Indoor Stadium in January — no matter who is or is not in the lineup — has very little in common with what it will take to win six straight NCAA tournament games. And you say making 3s is one way to win a title? True, but don’t forget about free throws. Duke is bloody awful at BOTH — nationally #275 at FT% and #292 at 3-point%.

They literally could not be much worse, comparatively-speaking. I’m praying for a miracle to at least allow Duke to rise to the mediocre level in FTs and 3-pointers. If that somehow happens, I’m good; Duke will win the National Championship.

[Rich]

Never bet against a Sicilian.


Sounds like a pie bet

Pizza pie

[uh_no]

They literally could not be much worse, comparatively-speaking.

and yet....they beat arguably the #1 team in the nation.

There's something to be said for the fact that you can't have an off shooting night if your baseline is getting no points from behind the arc.

THe general argument for the tournament is that you need to be versatile to win...and and if you asked me to name two teams in the country whose defenses would force you into taking a lot of outside shots, I would say syracuse and virginia.....and yet we got to the rim at will against virginia, and had we had cam (or even ANY time to prepare missing two starters), I have no doubt we would have done the same against syracuse.

All in all, these tournament maxims are stupid. You can't win without defense, you can't win if you're not in the top 10 in both O and D, you need guards, you need 3 point shooters....when you have two thoroughly mediocre connecticut teams that have won titles this decade, I doubt you can have ANY maxim that says "you must have this or that"....and all it ends up boiling down to is, the more things you can do well, the better your chances of winning games.

Do I think we can win it all with the team we have right now? Absolutely. we just beat UVA for goodness sakes....We probably beat them 3/6 WITH the team we have right now on a neutral court. With Tre and shooting? Maybe we beat them 4/6. Sure our chances are better. Our chances are better if we get better production out of bolden, or fewer fouls out of javin, or more dynamic guard play from alex....There are dozens of things that we COULD do better that could push us from that 3/6 to 4/6. Three point shooting and foul shooting are only two of them.

[JasonEvans]

I hope to god you’re right. But beating a team, ANY team, in Cameron Indoor Stadium in January — no matter who is or is not in the lineup — has very little in common with what it will take to win six straight NCAA tournament games. And you say making 3s is one way to win a title? True, but don’t forget about free throws. Duke is bloody awful at BOTH — nationally #275 at FT% and #292 at 3-point%.

The 2010 Duke nation champs were 25th in 3FG%, they were 8th in FT%
The 2011 UConn nation champs were 242nd in 3FG%, they were 11th in FT%
The 2012 Kentucky nation champs were 39th in 3FG%, they were 65th in FT%
The 2013 Louisville nation champs were 197th in 3FG%, they were 121st in FT%
The 2014 UConn nation champs were 24th in 3FG%, they were 4th in FT%
The 2015 Duke nation champs were 25th in 3FG%, they were 153rd in FT%
The 2016 Villanova nation champs were 103rd in 3FG%, they were 2nd in FT%
The 2017 UNC nation champs were 148th in 3FG%, they were 172nd in FT%
The 2018 Villanova nation champs were 10th in 3FG%, they were 10th in FT%

So, while there were teams that struggled at one or the other, we've only seen 1 team (2017 UNC) that managed to win a title by being just average or worse at both FT and 3FG percentage. Of course that Carolina team was ridiculously absurd at offensive rebounding, which is what won them the title.

Bottom line, if you are not going to be good at FT or 3FG shooting, you better be almost otherworldly good at something else.

-Jason "there are a few categories where this Duke team may be close to otherworldly... we need to see how the season progresses" Evans

[uh_no]

The 2010 Duke nation champs were 25th in 3FG%, they were 8th in FT%
The 2011 UConn nation champs were 242nd in 3FG%, they were 11th in FT%
The 2012 Kentucky nation champs were 39th in 3FG%, they were 65th in FT%
The 2013 Louisville nation champs were 197th in 3FG%, they were 121st in FT%
The 2014 UConn nation champs were 24th in 3FG%, they were 4th in FT%
The 2015 Duke nation champs were 25th in 3FG%, they were 153rd in FT%
The 2016 Villanova nation champs were 103rd in 3FG%, they were 2nd in FT%
The 2017 UNC nation champs were 148th in 3FG%, they were 172nd in FT%
The 2018 Villanova nation champs were 10th in 3FG%, they were 10th in FT%

So, while there were teams that struggled at one or the other, we've only seen 1 team (2017 UNC) that managed to win a title by being just average or worse at both FT and 3FG percentage. Of course that Carolina team was ridiculously absurd at offensive rebounding, which is what won them the title.

Bottom line, if you are not going to be good at FT or 3FG shooting, you better be almost otherworldly good at something else.

-Jason "there are a few categories where this Duke team may be close to otherworldly... we need to see how the season progresses" Evans

UL? when you're down in 121, your in the meat of the bell curve, so pretty average at that point.

Agree wholeheartedly, though. There's no one formula: do as much as you can well. If zion and RJ are going to put up 57 points from the paint and pick up &1 all game, lets do it.

[Kedsy]

The 2013 Louisville nation champs were 197th in 3FG%, they were 121st in FT%
The 2017 UNC nation champs were 148th in 3FG%, they were 172nd in FT%

So, while there were teams that struggled at one or the other, we've only seen 1 team (2017 UNC) that managed to win a title by being just average or worse at both FT and 3FG percentage. Of course that Carolina team was ridiculously absurd at offensive rebounding, which is what won them the title.

Bottom line, if you are not going to be good at FT or 3FG shooting, you better be almost otherworldly good at something else.

This analysis seems a bit over-simplistic, doesn't it?

First of all, I know technically that 121st is slightly above average, but what was 2013 Louisville "otherworldly" at? And was the difference between Louisville's FT% (70.9%) and the median FT% of 2013 (69.0%) really the difference between needing to be otherworldly or not? Same with 2005 UNC's (a team that was 201st in 3pt%) 72.5% FT% and the median 69.0%? Plus, you only went 9 years back, what kind of sample is that? If you'd gone back another 7 years, you'd have gotten to 2003 Syracuse, ranked 179th in 3pt% and 162nd in FT% -- or was that Syracuse team otherworldly at something too?

I'll grant you that great teams can usually shoot, but beyond that you're trying to set rules in an environment (the NCAA tournament) that doesn't really have any rules.

[uh_no]

This analysis seems a bit over-simplistic, doesn't it?

First of all, I know technically that 121st is slightly above average, but what was 2013 Louisville "otherworldly" at? And was the difference between Louisville's FT% (70.9%) and the median FT% of 2013 (69.0%) really the difference between needing to be otherworldly or not? Same with 2005 UNC's (a team that was 201st in 3pt%) 72.5% FT% and the median 69.0%? Plus, you only went 9 years back, what kind of sample is that? If you'd gone back another 7 years, you'd have gotten to 2003 Syracuse, ranked 179th in 3pt% and 162nd in FT% -- or was that Syracuse team otherworldly at something too?

I'll grant you that great teams can usually shoot, but beyond that you're trying to set rules in an environment (the NCAA tournament) that doesn't really have any rules.

#1 defense? jedi force powers provided by injured kevin ware?

Agree with you as well. It's over simplistic. Binning all your stats and saying you have to be ranked such in such in some many of those categories tosses away valuable information. Being pretty good at a couple things may be just as good as being great at something and average at the other. Maybe there are certain combinations of things that are particularly more important, or that give some sort of "combo bonus" like maybe 3pt shooting and offensive rebounding, but I'm not sure we have enough data to say for sure that any particular combination is doomed, or especially potent.

Either way, as the chart shows, teams win without FT and 3pt shooting...so it's silly to think that we MUST get better at them. Of course we have a better shot if we do, and everyone here would LOVE if a couple more went in, but I think we have a pretty good shot without them.

[Kedsy]

Agree with you as well. It's over simplistic.

There just isn't any magic formula. You don't even actually have to be that good at both offense and defense (and if you were going to pick just two categories, those would be it, right?). Seven of the 17 national champions in the Pomeroy era went into the tournament outside the top 20 in either offense or defense (or both, in the case of 2011 UConn), including four of the last five champions. Four of the 17 champs were outside the top 30 in either offense or defense (including two of the last five).

[Steven43]

There just isn't any magic formula. You don't even actually have to be that good at both offense and defense (and if you were going to pick just two categories, those would be it, right?). Seven of the 17 national champions in the Pomeroy era went into the tournament outside the top 20 in either offense or defense (or both, in the case of 2011 UConn), including four of the last five champions. Four of the 17 champs were outside the top 30 in either offense or defense (including two of the last five).

Well, being outside the top 20 is just a tad different than being #275 in FT% and #292 in 3-point% as Duke is. Those are very scary numbers, especially considering how important the 3-point shot has become in today’s game and how often Duke draws fouls.

I mean, hey, I’m hoping for the best, too, but I just can’t get past those numbers. However, if Duke beats UNC twice this year I’ll be relatively okay with whatever else happens. Here’s to hoping for a Duke shooting miracle to occur in the NCAA tournament.

[Kedsy]

Well, being outside the top 20 is just a tad different than being #275 in FT% and #292 in 3-point% as Duke is. Those are very scary numbers, especially considering how important the 3-point shot has become in today’s game and how often Duke draws fouls.

I mean, hey, I’m hoping for the best, too, but I just can’t get past those numbers. However, if Duke beats UNC twice this year I’ll be relatively okay with whatever else happens. Here’s to hoping for a Duke shooting miracle to occur in the NCAA tournament.

That “outside the top 20” was for total offense. The numbers you cite are just a fraction of offense. A fraction so small that despite Duke’s admittedly very poor performance in those areas, Duke’s overall offense is #4 in the country. Which if you’re keeping score at home is way better than outside the top 20.

There are many ways to get “easy offense.” Shooting threes and free throws are two of those ways, but this Duke team does it differently. There’s no right or wrong answer here, so long as you score the points.

[sagegrouse]

I really want to agree with these sentiments, but with such poor FT and 3-point shooting I just don’t see Duke winning 6 straight games against increasingly difficult competition. I don’t see how it’s possible without a somewhat significant improvement in both areas.

How can a team suddenly improve its FT and 3-point shooting after the midway point in the season? Joey Baker plus significantly more minutes for AOC? Doubtful either of those is going to happen. So how then? I wish I had an answer.

I understand your worries. But I believe we dominate other teams in terms of physical ability on both ends of the court. Virginia, for example, is a highly organized team with less talent than Duke. Their talent level is probably better than most tournament teams -- none of whom function so cohesively.

I think 60 percent FT shooting and spotty three-point shooting (I still have high hopes for Cam) won't make a difference before the Final Four, and if we can dominate defensively, we should beat anyone in the tournament.

All of this assumes the relatively timely return of Tre Jones. I have memories of late-season returns of Kyrie in 2011 and Kenny Smith to the great UNC team of 1984. It probably hurt both teams.

[LasVegas]

So Tre Jones, eh?

[UrinalCake]

Have we been played?

The most recent comments are certainly less encouraging than the ones K made last last week. It feels like he was trying to overstate how well Tre was doing in order to put the idea in Virginia's head that he might play. But he did state fairly clearly that Tre would not be out a month. So that's good.

I'm still thinking the next UVA game would be a good time for him to return. I have no factual basis for this, but it would be not quite four weeks from the initial injury, and the tail end of a very winnable stretch of games. I know that some of us started to get excited about him returning much sooner, but he should take his time and heal up.

[kAzE]

I'm hoping Tre is 100% before the St. John's game. Would certainly be helpful to have a lock down defender at the point guard position facing Shamorie ponds. He did some bad things to our team last year.

[Steven43]

That “outside the top 20” was for total offense. The numbers you cite are just a fraction of offense. A fraction so small that despite Duke’s admittedly very poor performance in those areas, Duke’s overall offense is #4 in the country. Which if you’re keeping score at home is way better than outside the top 20.

There are many ways to get “easy offense.” Shooting threes and free throws are two of those ways, but this Duke team does it differently. There’s no right or wrong answer here, so long as you score the points.

Your second paragraph makes me feel a bit better, but I just would feel so much more confident if this team had two or three guys who could be counted on to knock down late-game FTs the way Tyus (89%), Quinn (89%), and Grayson (85%) did. Just look at those astonishing numbers.

Do we have even one player — just one — even close to that? Do you remember how many big FT after big FT these guys made in the NCAA tournament? This is a less-recognized but absolutely crucial reason why Duke won the National Championship.

[Kedsy]

Your second paragraph makes me feel a bit better, but I just would feel so much more confident if this team had two or three guys who could be counted on to knock down late-game FTs the way Tyus (89%), Quinn (89%), and Grayson (85%) did. Just look at those astonishing numbers.

Do we have even one player — just one — even close to that? Do you remember how many big FT after big FT these guys made in the NCAA tournament? This is a less-recognized but absolutely crucial reason why Duke won the National Championship.

I hear you, and on a non-statistical level our poor FT shooting worries me a little too. But it's worth noting that the 2015 team shot an aggregate of 69.9% from the FT line, and our current team shoots 67.0%. So far this season, we've shot 23.7 free throws per game. The difference between 67.0% and 69.9% when shooting 23.7 FTs is just under two-thirds (0.66) of a free throw per game. Which rounds up to one point (or, more accurately, one point in two out of every three games) and, sure, one point could lose a game for us in the tournament, but it's really not something to completely stress over, either.

[Steven43]

Inconsistent FT shooting and 3-point shooting are really the true reasons why I’ve been kind of pessimistic towards RJ, and to a lesser extent, Cam. It just drives me bonkers when our main shooters and ball-handlers are not great at either FTs or 3–point shooting. I haven’t looked as closely at Tre’s numbers in those two areas, but it seems he too has been less than stellar at both. And Zion? Well, he’s Zion, so I can’t say anything even close to negative.

I’m sorry, but I just feel soooo much better when Duke has good 3-point shooters and guys who knock down their FTs. I love this team overall and try to watch every minute of every game, but I’m concerned that something as boring and unglamorous as FT shooting is going to cost Duke a National Championship. And that is very very frustrating for me.

[Steven43]

I hear you, and on a non-statistical level our poor FT shooting worries me a little too. But it's worth noting that the 2015 team shot an aggregate of 69.9% from the FT line, and our current team shoots 67.0%. So far this season, we've shot 23.7 free throws per game. The difference between 67.0% and 69.9% when shooting 23.7 FTs is just under two-thirds (0.66) of a free throw per game. Which rounds up to one point (or, more accurately, one point in two out of every three games) and, sure, one point could lose a game for us in the tournament, but it's really not something to completely stress over, either.
Okay, Kedsy, you keep pulling me back in. Thanks.

[moonpie23]

it's naive to think that any duke opponent might not have the same particular problems on any particular game.........winning the natty requires game adjustments that are not at the mercy of stats....




cases in point:

A - Brian Zoubek
B - Grayson Allen
C - Kris Jenkins
D - Chris Webber


we have a team with talent enough to make anyone blush...........all we gotta do is close escrow....

[Steven43]

it's naive to think that any duke opponent might not have the same particular problems on any particular game.....winning the natty requires game adjustments that are not at the mercy of stats...




cases in point:

A - Brian Zoubek
B - Grayson Allen
C - Kris Jenkins
D - Chris Webber


we have a team with talent enough to make anyone blush.......all we gotta do is close escrow...
I’m going to resist responding to your “naive” comment, which I didn’t care for, and focus instead on the one of “we have a team with talent enough to make anyone blush”. That was a good one.

Now it’s on to Pittsburgh, where I’m hoping to crush Coach Capel’s team. Believe me, he’ll be taking no prisoners Tuesday night, regardless of past Duke affiliation. Good Guys by 8. Not exactly a crushing, but I’ll happily take it.

[gofurman]

The most recent comments are certainly less encouraging than the ones K made last last week. It feels like he was trying to overstate how well Tre was doing in order to put the idea in Virginia's head that he might play. But he did state fairly clearly that Tre would not be out a month. So that's good.

I'm still thinking the next UVA game would be a good time for him to return. I have no factual basis for this, but it would be not quite four weeks from the initial injury, and the tail end of a very winnable stretch of games. I know that some of us started to get excited about him returning much sooner, but he should take his time and heal up.


K said Tre would not be out a month. I hold him to that as a man of ethics. He said that. People will say oh it's gamesmanship. Bull. I spoke to a friend and he 100% agreed. You can be ethical and game some. Instead of saying he could be back in a month. Say it looks better than initially and we expect him back. That wouldn't be a lie ( as a month would be a lie if he isn't back in a month) and allows gamesmanship. I juat don't stand for lies.

If this Tre thing lingers and it turns out K was playing w people I will not abide by that. Ethics do NOT end where the hardwood begins. I believe in the Bible and I never have seen where it says "thou shalt not lie..EXCEPT in case of sports". Not in there. Either keep it vague or Don't say anything

End of rant. Thanks. Lol

Separately K said it was a high grade 1. Grade 2 people appear to be back in three weeks or so. Grade 1 by two weeks

[Steven43]

If this Tre thing lingers and it turns out K was playing w people I will not abide by that. Ethics do NOT end where the hardwood begins. I believe in the Bible and I never have seen where it says "thou shalt not lie..EXCEPT in case of sports". Not in there. Either keep it vague or Don't say anything.
Whoa

[uh_no]

K said Tre would not be out a month. I hold him to that as a man of ethics. He said that. People will say oh it's gamesmanship. Bull.

A couple of things:

1) I don't think lying in the context of injured players has anything to do with ethics. There are no rules governing what college ball coaches can say to the media regarding player health (outside HIPAA). If a coach wants to take advantage of that? good on them. Nobody is physically hurt by it, and it makes it difficult for your opponents to game plan. I would say that there have been plenty of times when K has stretched the truth a great deal in press conferences, but then you would say "give me examples," and then we would argue about how he was actually being truthful in some mental-gymnastics way...but I don't really want to do have that argument, so I won't make that claim.

2) There is a gulf between what can say to exhibit gamesmanship without lying. There's a reason why injuries are talked about in such vague terms, and it's 100% gamesmanship. I would be shocked if the trainers didn't know by the end of the game last week exactly what tre's injury was, how bad it was, and what the prognosis would be. They probably had an x-ray by half time. So K goes from "a good while" to "better than expected" right before the UVA game, and then as soon as the game is over he says "he's not close?" They know exactly how he's doing and have a good idea when he can play.

3) The bible also says things about wearing clothes that are made from only one material...so while I have a great deal of respect for K's religious values, I don't think it's a particularly valid argument here.

[Dukehk]

I get people are frustrated by the injury and also the vagueness of timeline from coach K.

The important thing is that Coach is doing it to protect the player. He could care less how the fan base feel. Tre will be back when he is ready to be back. Thats something we've seen time and time again on how Duke handles injuries.

So all this nonsense about it being less than a month and holding Coach K accountable is just silly. The player's well being comes first. Im sure Tre is dying to play and they are probably just making sure he is 100% before letting him back.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

K said Tre would not be out a month. I hold him to that as a man of ethics. He said that. People will say oh it's gamesmanship. Bull. I spoke to a friend and he 100% agreed. You can be ethical and game some. Instead of saying he could be back in a month. Say it looks better than initially and we expect him back. That wouldn't be a lie ( as a month would be a lie if he isn't back in a month) and allows gamesmanship. I juat don't stand for lies.

If this Tre thing lingers and it turns out K was playing w people I will not abide by that. Ethics do NOT end where the hardwood begins. I believe in the Bible and I never have seen where it says "thou shalt not lie..EXCEPT in case of sports". Not in there. Either keep it vague or Don't say anything

End of rant. Thanks. Lol

Separately K said it was a high grade 1. Grade 2 people appear to be back in three weeks or so. Grade 1 by two weeks

Wow. I want to live in your world where medical diagnoses have clear cut and finite results.

How about all the other permutations? K was told "he should be back in 2 weeks," but the Tre heals slower than expected. The doctor tells K it is one issue, but in fact there is a secondary problem which lengthens his recovery. Tre pushes his rehab too hard and suffers a set back. Tre is all set to go in a month, but twists his ankle.

Come on - let's not use this as a litmus test for K's ethics. That's not fair to him, Tre, or the amazing Duke medical staff.

Conversely, if K said "Tre's out for a month," but he healed quickly due to amazing care at Duke - is K a liar?

No, sports are not exempt from ethical repercussions, but also some people take sports a bit too seriously.

[gofurman]

Wow. I want to live in your world where medical diagnoses have clear cut and finite results.

How about all the other permutations? K was told "he should be back in 2 weeks," but the Tre heals slower than expected. The doctor tells K it is one issue, but in fact there is a secondary problem which lengthens his recovery. Tre pushes his rehab too hard and suffers a set back. Tre is all set to go in a month, but twists his ankle.

Come on - let's not use this as a litmus test for K's ethics. That's not fair to him, Tre, or the amazing Duke medical staff.

Conversely, if K said "Tre's out for a month," but he healed quickly due to amazing care at Duke - is K a liar?

No, sports are not exempt from ethical repercussions, but also some people take sports a bit too seriously.

Look. I am just saying in MY opinion it’s better to say “we DON’T KNOW but expect 4-6 weeks” than “ he IS out for a month. “. It allows more wiggle room and honesty. I have always felt this way - it’s such an easy thing to Keep honesty so why NOT do it?

[gofurman]

A couple of things:

1) I don't think lying in the context of injured players has anything to do with ethics. There are no rules governing what college ball coaches can say to the media regarding player health (outside HIPAA). If a coach wants to take advantage of that? good on them. Nobody is physically hurt by it, and it makes it difficult for your opponents to game plan. I would say that there have been plenty of times when ***K has stretched the truth a great deal in press conferences, ***. but then you would say "give me examples," and then we would argue about how he was actually being truthful in some mental-gymnastics way...but I don't really want to do have that argument, so I won't make that claim.

2) There is a gulf between what can say to exhibit gamesmanship without lying. There's a reason why injuries are talked about in such vague terms, and it's 100% gamesmanship. I would be shocked if the trainers didn't know by the end of the game last week exactly what tre's injury was, how bad it was, and what the prognosis would be. They probably had an x-ray by half time. So K goes from "a good while" to "better than expected" right before the UVA game, and then as soon as the game is over he says "he's not close?" They know exactly how he's doing and have a good idea when he can play.

3) The bible also says things about wearing clothes that are made from only one material...so while I have a great deal of respect for K's religious values, I don't think it's a particularly valid argument here.

See the asterisks.

Most would agree many coaches “STRETCH THE TRUTH” with regard to injuries. And stretching the truth is akin to lying. That’s just semantics to saying “stretch the truth”. Look, am I partly just frustrated at not knowing when Tre returns? Sure. I am. But I have always held the view that you should either a) tell the truth or b) don’t say anything at all. I would never tell my children it’s ok to “stretch the truth” so I can’t abide by coaches doing it either.

I get the unknown nature of the body healing. So it’s EASY to avoid “stretching the truth”. Just say “AT THIS JUNCTURE our best guess is Tre “returns in a few weeks” or whenever is the guess
... that allows a lot of leeway and honesty if that’s the guess at this point

This gamesmanship/truth is Just my thing. We all have different places where we draw lines.... Anyway, hope he heals very soon!!!

Let's move on, we are all pulling for the same team and I hope we see Tre soon. Heal up Tre

[Dr. Rosenrosen]

See the asterisks.

Most would agree many coaches “STRETCH THE TRUTH” with regard to injuries. And stretching the truth is akin to lying. That’s just semantics to saying “stretch the truth”. Look, am I partly just frustrated at not knowing when Tre returns? Sure. I am. But I have always held the view that you should either a) tell the truth or b) don’t say anything at all. I would never tell my children it’s ok to “stretch the truth” so I can’t abide by coaches doing it either.

I get the unknown nature of the body healing. So it’s EASY to avoid “stretching the truth”. Just say “AT THIS JUNCTURE our best guess is Tre “returns in a few weeks” or whenever is the guess
... that allows a lot of leeway and honesty if that’s the guess at this point

This gamesmanship/truth is Just my thing. We all have different places where we draw lines... Anyway, hope he heals very soon!!!

Let's move on, we are all pulling for the same team and I hope we see Tre soon. Heal up Tre
Accusing Coach K of lying when you have no legitimate proof of him having done so, and then coming back to say it again and then tell us all to move on, is just really poor form.

[HereBeforeCoachK]

See the asterisks.

Most would agree many coaches “STRETCH THE TRUTH” with regard to injuries. And stretching the truth is akin to lying. That’s just semantics to saying “stretch the truth”. Look, am I partly just frustrated at not knowing when Tre returns? Sure. I am. But I have always held the view that you should either a) tell the truth or b) don’t say anything at all. I would never tell my children it’s ok to “stretch the truth” so I can’t abide by coaches doing it either.

This gamesmanship/truth is Just my thing. We all have different places where we draw lines... Anyway, hope he heals very soon!!!



I saw your earlier quote about the Bible and lying, and now this.....I don't think you are processing this right. I mean, first, God used deception in the Bible at times....just saying, and that's all I'm gonna say about that.

But the other mistake is applying the "TRUTH" test to this kind of situation. This is competitive sports, and deception is part of this realm. By your definition, Zion is "lying" when he fakes right before going left. NFL teams are "lying" when they strategically mislead other teams about their draft intentions. Duck hunters are "lying" when they set out decoys. Poker players are "lying" when they bluff. How far do you take this?

The "truth" here is that Coach K doesn't know, nor does anyone, about the return. Think the Daniel Jones issue. Another "truth" is that his job is to win, and that can include keeping future opponents off balance and his own team energized. You're simply applying the truth test where it is not appropriate.

[gofurman]

Accusing Coach K of lying when you have no legitimate proof of him having done so, and then coming back to say it again and then tell us all to move on, is just really poor form.

But it's just so easy to avoid... say something akin to "AT THIS JUNCTURE our best guess is X" as opposed to a hard line of "He will return within a month".

Granted, I am surrounded by Lawyers and they all agree... (Maybe that's my issue ;) - if you say the first statement you have all the wiggle room you need... saying it the second way could put you in a bad spot

[gofurman]

I saw your earlier quote about the Bible and lying, and now this....I don't think you are processing this right. I mean, first, God used deception in the Bible at times...just saying, and that's all I'm gonna say about that.

But the other mistake is applying the "TRUTH" test to this kind of situation. This is competitive sports, and deception is part of this realm. By your definition, Zion is "lying" when he fakes right before going left. NFL teams are "lying" when they strategically mislead other teams about their draft intentions. Duck hunters are "lying" when they set out decoys. Poker players are "lying" when they bluff. How far do you take this?

The "truth" here is that Coach K doesn't know, nor does anyone, about the return. Think the Daniel Jones issue. Another "truth" is that his job is to win, and that can include keeping future opponents off balance and his own team energized. You're simply applying the truth test where it is not appropriate.

HereBeforeCoachK.. the bolded is an Interesting take. I'll have to stew on some of those. Good points. I am not sure I think poker players are lying with a bluff, maybe they just know the opponent will fold to a certain bet value as opposed to 'overvaluing / lying' about their own hand.

But you have good points.

Thanks


Alright, moving on to Pitt..

[Indoor66]

Accusing Coach K of lying when you have no legitimate proof of him having done so, and then coming back to say it again and then tell us all to move on, is just really poor form.

The whole discussion of poor form! Medical diagnosis is not exact science. Recovery from injury is not an exact process done in an absolute progression. To accuse someone of lying because an inexact process does not conform to the best estimates made by third party professionals at the beginning of the injury recovery process is ludicrous if not childish.

Lying includes, as a basic constituent, an intent to deceive. The term is far too loosely thrown around.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Look. I am just saying in MY opinion it’s better to say “we DON’T KNOW but expect 4-6 weeks” than “ he IS out for a month. “. It allows more wiggle room and honesty. I have always felt this way - it’s such an easy thing to Keep honesty so why NOT do it?

If a parent tells his/her child that they will go to the park on Saturday, but Saturday is cold and raining, did they lie?

This is a strange criticism to level at K, even if there were any evidence of him being less than forthright. But there isn't.

How do you feel about Cut's tight lipped tendency towards injuries? How about all of hockey (upper body, lower body)? How about Willis Reed? Or Kyrie's single season at Duke?

Let's HOPE Tre Jones is ahead of schedule, and we can adjust our assessment of K's integrity thereafter if needed.

[-jk]

C'mon, folks. Take it easy...

-jk

[Steven43]

Wow. I want to live in your world where medical diagnoses have clear cut and finite results.

How about all the other permutations? K was told "he should be back in 2 weeks," but the Tre heals slower than expected. The doctor tells K it is one issue, but in fact there is a secondary problem which lengthens his recovery. Tre pushes his rehab too hard and suffers a set back. Tre is all set to go in a month, but twists his ankle.

Come on - let's not use this as a litmus test for K's ethics. That's not fair to him, Tre, or the amazing Duke medical staff.

Conversely, if K said "Tre's out for a month," but he healed quickly due to amazing care at Duke - is K a liar?

No, sports are not exempt from ethical repercussions, but also some people take sports a bit too seriously.
Very nice take. Kudos. Makes a lot of sense.

[camion]

My main comment on Tre's injury/return is that we are not living in a Star Trek world. You know that world, the one where in 30 seconds you will have received a lethal dose of radiation, but 29 seconds of radiation and you're fine. We're not living in that world. In the real world timelines are fuzzy. This is surely true where injuries are concerned. The day/hour/minute where Tre will be healed isn't known, by anyone.


I'll leave my comments on fuzziness vs truthinesss for another time.

[budwom]

As one who is often frustrated by vague coach speak, I find the Jones situation to be pretty clear cut, and K's comments to be completely reasonable.
He's described the severity of the injury (slightly more than a grade 1 sprain), and it needs to improve more before Tre can play. And it probably won't
be a long time. Lacking a crystal ball (that's on another site) I don't see what else he could say.

[UrinalCake]

K said Tre would not be out a month. I hold him to that as a man of ethics. He said that.

I didn’t interpret his comment as an exact medical diagnosis. He said something to the effect of “it’s not the type of injury where he’ll be out long term, like a month.” So in terms of order of magnitude, he didn’t think it was a month-long type injury but I think there’s still a lot of uncertainty, as there is with any injury.

Agree that the St. John’s game will be a tough one without him. Also not overlooking ND on the road. But let’s just take it one game at a time.

[NSDukeFan]

I hope to god you’re right. But beating a team, ANY team, in Cameron Indoor Stadium in January — no matter who is or is not in the lineup — has very little in common with what it will take to win six straight NCAA tournament games. And you say making 3s is one way to win a title? True, but don’t forget about free throws. Duke is bloody awful at BOTH — nationally #275 at FT% and #292 at 3-point%.

They literally could not be much worse, comparatively-speaking. I’m praying for a miracle to at least allow Duke to rise to the mediocre level in FTs and 3-pointers. If that somehow happens, I’m good; Duke will win the National Championship.


That “outside the top 20” was for total offense. The numbers you cite are just a fraction of offense. A fraction so small that despite Duke’s admittedly very poor performance in those areas, Duke’s overall offense is #4 in the country. Which if you’re keeping score at home is way better than outside the top 20.

There are many ways to get “easy offense.” Shooting threes and free throws are two of those ways, but this Duke team does it differently. There’s no right or wrong answer here, so long as you score the points.

It’s hard to make the adjustment to “live by the two, die by the two.”

[wavedukefan70s]

Wow. I want to live in your world where medical diagnoses have clear cut and finite results.

How about all the other permutations? K was told "he should be back in 2 weeks," but the Tre heals slower than expected. The doctor tells K it is one issue, but in fact there is a secondary problem which lengthens his recovery. Tre pushes his rehab too hard and suffers a set back. Tre is all set to go in a month, but twists his ankle.

Come on - let's not use this as a litmus test for K's ethics. That's not fair to him, Tre, or the amazing Duke medical staff.

Conversely, if K said "Tre's out for a month," but he healed quickly due to amazing care at Duke - is K a liar?

No, sports are not exempt from ethical repercussions, but also some people take sports a bit too seriously.

Agree .as for judging k .I wont until I get paid to do so lol.even if he was vague on purpose .use every advantage you can.
Theres a certain level of dirt in every sport .if you wont they will.im not talking academically or financially. Strictly from a coaching or playing aspect.do what you have to do.

[scottdude8]

The thing I find odd about this whole discussion is how surprised people are by K's vagueness. This is how he has ALWAYS done things! I was working for The Chronicle during Kyrie's season, and at any point in time in the office one of our "in the know" reporters would think Kyrie could be coming back within the weak, while another could be convinced he was done for the year. All from the same quotes from K!

Obviously, Coach K has determined that there's no benefit to the team for him to give concrete timetables on injuries. If anything, I'd hazard a guess and say he thinks it gives him a competitive advantage to be purposely vague so that opponents have to prepare for two possibilities, a team with and a team without Tre. Regardless of whether or not we think that's right (and, considering there aren't any NCAA rules regarding disclosing injury details as far as we know, there isn't anything shady or unethical about it by the rule of law), or whether or not we think we're entitled to some more information as fans (spoiler alert: we aren't entitled to anything!), it shouldn't surprise anyone that this is how this is going!

Honestly, from that perspective we should be thankful that K has even given us the few nuggets that he has... we know that the injury isn't expected to be season ending now, and for a week we were all panicking that that might be the worst case scenario. Let's be thankful for that nugget of info and otherwise trust that K knows what he's doing with Tre and with the info he's giving us, I say. Anything more is stressing just for stress' sake.

[KShip21]

All, its been 8 DAYS!!!! Seems like an eternity, but whether its 2 weeks, 3 weeks, "less than a month", we've got 6-22 days before any of these assumptions become false. No sling, and K and staff saying it was less serious than initially thought, should be enough reassurance. Without a setback of course. On the road against an opponent that should be a comfortable win is another opportunity for some recovery. I still have faith we'll see some limited minutes Saturday, and then "back" for ND. You can put the finger back on the panic button on 2/1.

[Kfanarmy]

Did Coach K even actually say “Tre would not be out a month?”

I didn’t interpret his comment as an exact medical diagnosis. He said something to the effect of “it’s not the type of injury where he’ll be out long term, like a month.” So in terms of order of magnitude, he didn’t think it was a month-long type injury but I think there’s still a lot of uncertainty, as there is with any injury….
This is what I heard.


…
But the other mistake is applying the "TRUTH" test to this kind of situation. This is competitive sports, and deception is part of this realm. By your definition, Zion is "lying" when he fakes right before going left. NFL teams are "lying" when they strategically mislead other teams about their draft intentions. Duck hunters are "lying" when they set out decoys. Poker players are "lying" when they bluff. How far do you take this?
The "truth" here is that Coach K doesn't know, nor does anyone, about the return. Think the Daniel Jones issue. Another "truth" is that his job is to win, and that can include keeping future opponents off balance and his own team energized. You're simply applying the truth test where it is not appropriate.

If as gorfurman posted, K said “Tre would not be out a month” that is an assertion as though fact. If K didn't say those words exactly then, well gofurman is sort of hoisted on his own petard. I personally give Coach K the benefit of the doubt, based on common knowledge of medical injuries, that he intends it as a simple informed opinion that can’t be stated as fact. Still it isn’t anything like putting a move on an opposing player, using decoys, or a bluff—unless of course the bluffer asserts that he has cards he doesn’t have during the hand. Holding your cards close to the vest doesn’t mean making assertions to deceive other people. One is wise, the other would get you shot in the Old West. IF, misstatement, inaccuracy or falsehood was offered with the intent to deceive, it is a lie. Keeping someone guessing and making false assertions aren’t the same.


A couple of things:
1) I don't think lying in the context of injured players has anything to do with ethics. There are no rules governing what college ball coaches can say to the media regarding player health (outside HIPAA). If a coach wants to take advantage of that? good on them. Nobody is physically hurt by it, and it makes it difficult for your opponents to game plan…
Religion or not, lying always has something to do with ethics. Whenever a person lies to gain an advantage, they are relying on the other person’s trust to create deception. Perhaps the reason it isn’t against the rules is because lying isn’t generally accepted by society, so we don’t expect coaches to assert things they know aren’t true. It may be done, but it isn’t ethical.
Being vague is not the same as making an assertion to deceive. Keep ‘em guessing, doesn’t mean go tell people something you know not to be true.
As stated earlier, I don’t think that is what K was doing, but the belief that lying is accepted practice is probably something to keep close to the vest.

[BLPOG]

I believe that Lee Harvey Oswald acted alone and that Tre Jones will be back by the time we play Virginia in Charlottesville.

[mattman91]

Was closing the vigil a bit premature? Because this thread seems like a vigil to me...

[devildeac]

Was closing the vigil a bit premature? Because this thread seems like a vigil to me...

This is now the non-vigil, vigil thread. :rolleyes:

[devildeac]

Did Coach K even actually say “Tre would not be out a month?”

This is what I heard.



If as gorfurman posted, K said “Tre would not be out a month” that is an assertion as though fact. If K didn't say those words exactly then, well gofurman is sort of hoisted on his own petard. I personally give Coach K the benefit of the doubt, based on common knowledge of medical injuries, that he intends it as a simple informed opinion that can’t be stated as fact. Still it isn’t anything like putting a move on an opposing player, using decoys, or a bluff—unless of course the bluffer asserts that he has cards he doesn’t have during the hand. Holding your cards close to the vest doesn’t mean making assertions to deceive other people. One is wise, the other would get you shot in the Old West. IF, misstatement, inaccuracy or falsehood was offered with the intent to deceive, it is a lie. Keeping someone guessing and making false assertions aren’t the same.


Religion or not, lying always has something to do with ethics. Whenever a person lies to gain an advantage, they are relying on the other person’s trust to create deception. Perhaps the reason it isn’t against the rules is because lying isn’t generally accepted by society, so we don’t expect coaches to assert things they know aren’t true. It may be done, but it isn’t ethical.
Being vague is not the same as making an assertion to deceive. Keep ‘em guessing, doesn’t mean go tell people something you know not to be true.
As stated earlier, I don’t think that is what K was doing, but the belief that lying is accepted practice is probably something to keep close to the vest.

"Pardon me. Are you Aaron Burr, sir?"

"Don't let them know what you're against or what you're for"

Sorry, I'll leave now :o.

[left_hook_lacey]

I believe that Lee Harvey Oswald acted alone and that Tre Jones will be back by the time we play Virginia in Charlottesville.

I was able to retrieve the Babushka Lady's film and can confirm it contains footage of Tre working out and shooting around in an old book depository.

[HereBeforeCoachK]

If as gorfurman posted, K said “Tre would not be out a month” that is an assertion as though fact. ......Still it isn’t anything like putting a move on an opposing player, using decoys, or a bluff—unless of course the bluffer asserts that he has cards he doesn’t have during the hand. Holding your cards close to the vest doesn’t mean making assertions to deceive other people.


A coach at a press event IS NOT TESTIMONY. Consider it theatre of a type. Not just K, all coaches at all pressers. These are not depositions or answering questions in front of a jury. You can say it's nothing like a fake, a decoy or a bluff, but you would be trying to divide the indivisible. I thank by my analogies, as do many other sporkers here.

[uh_no]

This is now the non-vigil, vigil thread. :rolleyes:

are you saying we've upped the vigil-ante?

[devildeac]

are you saying we've upped the vigil-ante?

I wouldn't bet on that.

[uh_no]

I wouldn't bet on that.

wouldn't want to flush your money straight down the toilet. I understand.

[left_hook_lacey]

wouldn't want to flush your money straight down the toilet. I understand.

a toilet that drains under fourth street, straight to the river.

[mattman91]

are you saying we've upped the vigil-ante?


I wouldn't bet on that.


wouldn't want to flush your money straight down the toilet. I understand.


a toilet that drains under fourth street, straight to the river.

Nothing like a full house of punners. Glad to have you all.

[devildeac]

Nothing like a full house of punners. Glad to have you all.

Posted with a true poker face.

[thedukelamere]

Alright you jokers... Any new news on Tre?

[4Gen]

You forgot Hanstravel, not a Dukie, but the best flopper in the game.

[HereBeforeCoachK]

You forgot Hanstravel, not a Dukie, but the best flopper in the game.

...that would be his German cousin, Hansfloppel

[gofurman]

To the post above there was an article where K was quoted as saying “out a month” or very similar. I’ll try to find it

[pfrduke]

To the post above there was an article where K was quoted as saying “out a month” or very similar. I’ll try to find it

Or you could just let it go and decide it’s not worth fighting over. But your choice.

[gofurman]

Or you could just let it go and decide it’s not worth fighting over. But your choice.

Not fighting at all. The poster asked if this was actually said. Justs answering, NOT fighting. If I ask for something I always appreciate a RESPONSE and so I am doing the same for the person who asked. **Treat others as you would want to be treated **



From The Athletic (https://theathletic.com/773522/2019/01/17/krzyzewski-tre-jones-injury-is-not-going-to-be-long-term/):


https://theathletic.com/773522/2019/01/17/krzyzewski-tre-jones-injury-is-not-going-to-be-long-term/

QUOTE. K said. ... “but it’s not going to be long term where it’s a month or something” said K. That’s where I saw it.

*****CLICK ON ‘the Athletic’ link.. from Jason Evans

“Slightly worse than a grade one... he’s going to be back”

[El_Diablo]

QUOTE. K said. ... “but it’s not going to be long term where it’s a month or something” said K.

You also omitted the part right before that, where Coach K clearly expresses uncertainty about the timeline, saying “I don’t know if it’s this game or next game . . . .” So isn’t this pretty much exactly what you said earlier would be an appropriate, virtuous way of addressing the matter?

[lotusland]

I think I either read or heard K said they decided on Friday that Tre wouldn’t play Saturday against Virginia because he didn’t have enough range of movement in his shoulder. That indicates to me that he’s being evaluated day to day. The schedule is favorable now for Tre to recuperate so there’s no need to play him before he’s near 100%.

[Ima Facultiwyfe]

You guys have WAYYYYYY too much time on your hands, bless your hearts.
Love, Ima

[BD80]

You guys have WAYYYYYY too much time on your hands, bless your hearts.
Love, Ima

When you use 6 "y's" in WAYYYYYY, it is clear to me that an insult is intended. Had you used but 5 "y's," I would have interpreted it as a pithy barb, with undertones of scolding. Four "y's" would have been akin to a guffaw and slap on the back. Three "y's' and less would have lacked meaningful emphasis.



Now, let's start dissecting what you mean by "bless your hearts …"

[91_92_01_10_15]

I just listened to the post-game presser, and there was no mention of Tre.

Did anyone listen to the Duke Radio pre or post-game interviews for word of Tre?

Thanks.

[uh_no]

When you use 6 "y's" in WAYYYYYY, it is clear to me that an insult is intended. Had you used but 5 "y's," I would have interpreted it as a pithy barb, with undertones of scolding. Four "y's" would have been akin to a guffaw and slap on the back. Three "y's' and less would have lacked meaningful emphasis.



Now, let's start dissecting what you mean by "bless your hearts …"

how much time does one need on their hands to decide the best use of time is to post about how people have too much time on their hands?

[Jeffrey]

K said. ... “but it’s not going to be long term where it’s a month or something”


I suspect K's statements are based upon medical expert opinion. I suspect the teenager's return decision is also based on what their parents, friends, and/or other family members advise.

[uh_no]

I suspect the teenager's return decision is also based on what their parents, friends, and/or other family members advise.

and you have evidence for that implication?

[Jeffrey]

and you have evidence for that implication?

How could I supply evidence that a teenager sometimes listens to advice from their parents, friends, and/or other family members?

[BD80]

How could I supply evidence that a teenager sometimes listens to advice from their parents, friends, and/or other family members?

In my experience, "evidence that a teenager sometimes listens to advice from their parents" is a null set.

[Phredd3]

Now, let's start dissecting what you mean by "bless your hearts …"

Since when do you not speak Southern?

[devildeac]

how much time does one need on their hands to decide the best use of time is to post about how people have too much time on their hands?

This reply Styx out to me:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kNYKxiRJ2LA

[uh_no]

How could I supply evidence that a teenager sometimes listens to advice from their parents, friends, and/or other family members?

the implication is that K does not have tre's best interests at heart, and thus his family would need to intercede on his behalf....and that such interference would be welcome by either tre or the team, which given that K almost assuredly does have Tre's interests in mind, i'm guessing it would not be unless otherwise solicited.

[Acymetric]

the implication is that K does not have tre's best interests at heart, and thus his family would need to intercede on his behalf...and that such interference would be welcome by either tre or the team, which given that K almost assuredly does have Tre's interests in mind, i'm guessing it would not be unless otherwise solicited.

You are reading way too much into this. It is entirely reasonable to suggest that the decision on when to return would be one that included K, the doctors, Tre, and Tre's family as part of that decision-making process (at the very least, Tre will have some say himself and undoubtedly will discuss it with his family, even if they don't directly discuss the issue with K and the doctors). Suggesting that Tre's family would be involved isn't a slight at K...I think parents being involved in medical decisions for their 18 year old children who just left home is pretty typical for sports stars and regular folk alike. You are manufacturing an insult/argument where there shouldn't be one.

[Indoor66]

What a load of over analysis this has become. But then, this is DBR.

[budwom]

What a load of over analysis this has become. But then, this is DBR.

true. when his shoulder feels good, he'll play, and he won't know when that is until it happens.

[BandAlum83]

You are reading way too much into this. It is entirely reasonable to suggest that the decision on when to return would be one that included K, the doctors, Tre, and Tre's family as part of that decision-making process (at the very least, Tre will have some say himself and undoubtedly will discuss it with his family, even if they don't directly discuss the issue with K and the doctors). Suggesting that Tre's family would be involved isn't a slight at K...I think parents being involved in medical decisions for their 18 year old children who just left home is pretty typical for sports stars and regular folk alike. You are manufacturing an insult/argument where there shouldn't be one.

Hmmmm......On the Ima scale (Bless your heart), I'm not sure what you are implying, explicitly stating or saying by inference when you italicize "way" with only one "y"

This is distressing! Is there an implied or actual value multiplier in effect when a word is italicized? Would it differ if only the "y" is italicized as opposed to the entire word? so is way = wayyy, is it < wayyyyyy?

I'm sorry, I will need to disregard your entire post until I get an incontrovertible and indisputable definition of an italicized "way"

[Jeffrey]

You are reading way too much into this. It is entirely reasonable to suggest that the decision on when to return would be one that included K, the doctors, Tre, and Tre's family as part of that decision-making process (at the very least, Tre will have some say himself and undoubtedly will discuss it with his family, even if they don't directly discuss the issue with K and the doctors). Suggesting that Tre's family would be involved isn't a slight at K...I think parents being involved in medical decisions for their 18 year old children who just left home is pretty typical for sports stars and regular folk alike. You are manufacturing an insult/argument where there shouldn't be one.

Thank you, very much, very well stated and spot on!

[Acymetric]

Hmmmm...On the Ima scale (Bless your heart), I'm not sure what you are implying, explicitly stating or saying by inference when you italicize "way" with only one "y"

This is distressing! Is there an implied or actual value multiplier in effect when a word is italicized? Would it differ if only the "y" is italicized as opposed to the entire word? so is way = wayyy, is it < wayyyyyy?

I'm sorry, I will need to disregard your entire post until I get an incontrovertible and indisputable definition of an italicized "way"


Way falls somewhere between wayyy and wayyyy according to most leading experts, although some fringe scientists classify it as a rough approximation of waaayyyyyy. I'm pretty sure way with only the y italicized is a curse word in Swahili, but you would need to get in touch with Tyler Hansbrough to confirm this as I have limited knowledge in that area.

[NYBri]

What a load of over analysis this has become. But then, this is DBR.

Could be worse. We could get into BBQ and Beer ratings. :cool:

[Indoor66]

Could be worse. We could get into BBQ and Beer ratings. :cool:

Or a list of craft beers.

[TruBlu]

Or puns could begin to wayyy too heavily in this thread.

[Tripping William]

Or puns could begin to wayyy too heavily in this thread.

No need to bring Sean May and Kennedy Meeks into this.

[BandAlum83]

Way falls somewhere between wayyy and wayyyy according to most leading experts, although some fringe scientists classify it as a rough approximation of waaayyyyyy. I'm pretty sure way with only the y italicized is a curse word in Swahili, but you would need to get in touch with Tyler Hansbrough to confirm this as I have limited knowledge in that area.

Well thanks for muddying the waters by suggesting "way" may be spelled with multiple "y's" AND multiple "a's"

That introduction combined with the ability to italicize a portion OR the entire word provide way (or is it waaaaaaaaaay) too many permutations.

My head just might explode.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
OMG! I just realized, if we introduce bolding (not Bolden) and underlines into the equation, the combinations are literally endless! Font type and color and point size also. This can be an entirely new wayyy to communicate!

Now I'm excited!

[Fish80]

Well thanks for muddying the waters by suggesting "way" may be spelled with multiple "y's" AND multiple "a's"

That introduction combined with the ability to italicize a portion OR the entire word provide way (or is it waaaaaaaaaay) too many permutations.

My head just might explode.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
OMG! I just realized, if we introduce bolding (not Bolden) and underlines into the equation, the combinations are literally endless! Font type and color and point size also. This can be an entirely new wayyy to communicate!


Now I'm excited!


I respectfully disagree ... I believe the combinations are still finite in number. :)

[BandAlum83]

I respectfully disagree ... I believe the combinations are still finite in number. :)

No, they are decidedly infinite, with the ability to add an infinite number of a's or y's.

Unless you are suggesting some sort of limitation in the natural physical environment. Or...in linguistic science is there a scientific limitation wrt the use of any given letter? Does that differ by language spoken or the types of characters used in writing?

I think you are w(aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa∞)y off base!

[fathippo]

I just listened to the post-game presser, and there was no mention of Tre.

Did anyone listen to the Duke Radio pre or post-game interviews for word of Tre?

Thanks.

Coach K talked about how much better the team is with Tre but did not give an injury update. I assume the broadcast crew knew not to ask because they seemed to avoid the question.

[uh_no]

No, they are decidedly infinite, with the ability to add an infinite number of a's or y's.


perhaps....though it is still countably infinite.

[Fish80]

No, they are decidedly infinite, with the ability to add an infinite number of a's or y's.

Unless you are suggesting some sort of limitation in the natural physical environment. Or...in linguistic science is there a scientific limitation wrt the use of any given letter? Does that differ by language spoken or the types of characters used in writing?

I think you are w(aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa∞)y off base!

The number of a's or y's one can use is finite. It's a practical limitation imposed by the communication medium... try to type an infinite number of a's and get back to me.

:D

[BLPOG]

No, they are decidedly infinite, with the ability to add an infinite number of a's or y's.

Unless you are suggesting some sort of limitation in the natural physical environment. Or...in linguistic science is there a scientific limitation wrt the use of any given letter? Does that differ by language spoken or the types of characters used in writing?

I think you are w(aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa∞)y off base!

Well, there are 26 letters in the English alphabet.

Twenty-six symbols can be encoded with five bits (and some room for punctuation left over).

There are somewhere in the vicinity of 1080 atoms in the universe, and approximately everything is hydrogen and we can model everything else as hydrogen + more hydrogen, so that's about 1086 protons.

If we encode bits using a simple H or H+ scheme, then we've got room for about 1086 / 5 = 1085/2 letters.

So there are a lot of way1...y1085/2s cover before Tre comes back or sanity returns to DBR.

[camion]

Well, there are 26 letters in the English alphabet.

Twenty-six symbols can be encoded with five bits (and some room for punctuation left over).

There are somewhere in the vicinity of 1080 atoms in the universe, and approximately everything is hydrogen and we can model everything else as hydrogen + more hydrogen, so that's about 1086 protons.

If we encode bits using a simple H or H+ scheme, then we've got room for about 1086 / 5 = 1085/2 letters.

So there are a lot of way1...y1085/2s cover before Tre comes back or sanity returns to DBR.

Have you considered the possibilities/probabilities implied by multiverses and quantum keyboards?

[BLPOG]

Have you considered the possibilities/probabilities implied by multiverses and quantum keyboards?

I don't believe in quantum physics when it comes to matters of the heart board.

[Devilwin]

Got a feeling about the next couple of games. I think we will see his return. Just a feeling, mind you..:cool:

[BD80]

The number of a's or y's one can use is finite. It's a practical limitation imposed by the communication medium... try to type an infinite number of a's and get back to me.

:D

If we have monkeys do the typing we'd eventually get Shakespeare.


But likely not until we had an uncountable number of unc AFAM submissions ...

[OldPhiKap]

No, they are decidedly infinite, with the ability to add an infinite number of a's or y's.

Unless you are suggesting some sort of limitation in the natural physical environment. Or...in linguistic science is there a scientific limitation wrt the use of any given letter? Does that differ by language spoken or the types of characters used in writing?

I think you are w(aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa∞)y off base!

For every w+(a x #)+y, there is a w+(a x (#+1))+y.

[devildeac]

Could be worse. We could get into BBQ and Beer ratings. :cool:


Or a list of craft beers.

Ten thousand bottles of beer on the wall,
Ten thousand bottles of beer,
If one of those bottles should happen to fall...

[uh_no]

Ten thousand bottles of beer on the wall,
Ten thousand bottles of beer,
If one of those bottles should happen to fall...

then there will be a period of mourning not less than one month.

[rasputin]

then there will be a period of mourning not less than one month.

And a bottle vigil.

[devildeac]

And a bottle vigil.

Beat me to it :o.

[BandAlum83]

This [age has had me laughing out loid for waaaaaay toooooooooooo long.

I just love DBR! Thanks all!

[Troublemaker]

Coach Scheyer provided an only-somewhat-informative update on the Duke Basketball Podcast that was released yesterday / this morning.

He said Tre is essentially "day to day" at this point and that Tre is "doing more and more work on the court" as the recovery proceeds.

[rsvman]

For every w+(a x #)+y, there is a w+(a x (#+1))+y.

So are you saying that you can prove by induction that the number is infinite? Nice.

[UrinalCake]

He said Tre is essentially "day to day" at this point and that Tre is "doing more and more work on the court" as the recovery proceeds.

That sounds like really positive news!

[BD80]

Coach Scheyer ... said Tre is essentially "day to day" at this point ...

But aren't we all essentially "day-to-day?"

[Jeffrey]

But aren't we all essentially "day-to-day?"

No, unfortunately, we are all essentially minute-by-minute.

[TruBlu]

But aren't we all essentially "day-to-day?"

Some of us are more day-to-day than others. I don’t buy green bananas anymore.

[CameronBornAndBred]

This is where these vigil threads can mess with your mental health.

Per the "Day to day" statement, out of curiosity I went back and perused the early posts in Kyrie's toe vigil, and found this post by O.F..


Olympic Fan

Am I missing something or does somebody have more info than has been released by Duke?

I just watched WRAL TV (at 6 p.m.) and they reported that Kyrie would miss the Bradley game, but that his status is day to day. I was told Monday that he would probably miss Wednesday's game -- but that if it were UNC or Michigan State, he would play.
........

Now it looks like we'll only get him for 39 games.


Not to say that Tre's injury will last nearly that long, just throwing this out as a reminder.

[BandAlum83]

I doubt that Tre scores as many points as Kelly did in his first game back from injury, but I'll take the same Tre that we had before his injury. I love his defense and his cool manner on the court. GoDuke!

But he may have as many combined steals and assists his first game back! What would it take? Did Kelly score 32 or something that first game back?

[NSDukeFan]

This is where these vigil threads can mess with your mental health.

Per the "Day to day" statement, out of curiosity I went back and perused the early posts in Kyrie's toe vigil, and found this post by O.F..



Not to say that Tre's injury will last nearly that long, just throwing this out as a reminder.

I realize you are just the messenger, but how many flames can I throw at you for that research. 😀. That’s scary, scary stuff.

[MChambers]

This is where these vigil threads can mess with your mental health.

Per the "Day to day" statement, out of curiosity I went back and perused the early posts in Kyrie's toe vigil, and found this post by O.F..



Not to say that Tre's injury will last nearly that long, just throwing this out as a reminder.

Too soon.

[Natty_B]

This is where these vigil threads can mess with your mental health.

Per the "Day to day" statement, out of curiosity I went back and perused the early posts in Kyrie's toe vigil, and found this post by O.F..



Not to say that Tre's injury will last nearly that long, just throwing this out as a reminder.

The Kyrie injury kinda went the opposite direction. In the immediate aftermath it wasn't considered more than day-to-day but after a few days both Seth Davis and Kyrie tweeted about how it could be season ending (well Kyrie just tweeted something like "worst thing ever"). The Tre injury was considered real bad in the immediate aftermath but after a few days K stated it wouldn't be anything like missing a month.

[Fish80]

The Kyrie injury kinda went the opposite direction. In the immediate aftermath it wasn't considered more than day-to-day but after a few days both Seth Davis and Kyrie tweeted about how it could be season ending (well Kyrie just tweeted something like "worst thing ever"). The Tre injury was considered real bad in the immediate aftermath but after a few days K stated it wouldn't be anything like missing a month.

K said “... but it’s not going to be long term where it’s a month or something ...”

[Saratoga2]

But aren't we all essentially "day-to-day?"

The advice I get is to take all the long term loans they will give.

[ncexnyc]

But aren't we all essentially "day-to-day?"
At my age most definitely.

[Duke79UNLV77]

On his Sirius radio show tonight, K said, "soon." He also said Tre has been "living in the training room," working to get back.

[richardjackson199]

On his Sirius radio show tonight, K said, "soon." He also said Tre has been "living in the training room," working to get back.

Thanks for update!

Soon is better than indefinitely and a while.

[OldPhiKap]

So are you saying that you can prove by induction that the number is infinite? Nice.

It’s the DBR variation of my favorite geometric proof:

“Infinity exists, because for every X there is an X+1.”

[DevilHorse]

It’s the DBR variation of my favorite geometric proof:

“Infinity exists, because for every X there is an X+1.”

It sounds more to me like Zeno's Dichotomy where each Day we get halfway there, and asymptotically approach "the day" but never seem to get there.
Rather than the more pleasing constant rate of improvement, which is not Day by Day, but has a trajectory.

Of course, YMMV.

Larry
DevilHorse

[wavedukefan70s]

Hindi maaaring dumating sa lalong madaling panahon ng sapat na

[roywhite]

On his Sirius radio show tonight, K said, "soon." He also said Tre has been "living in the training room," working to get back.

Reminiscent of Bobby Hurley coming back off a foot injury in 1992. Attacked his rehab and set new standards on the StairMaster. Didn't want to miss the fun.

[curtis325]

On his Sirius radio show tonight, K said, "soon." He also said Tre has been "living in the training room," working to get back.

Is that better than soonish?

[dukelifer]

Is that better than soonish?

My guess is that they are waiting for him to be back to full strength and pain free. This stretch of games works to the team's favor in that regard. Tre is too valuable to rush back. They of course have to balance this layoff/recovery with his getting rusty, as it usually takes a few games to get back into game shape. My guess is that he will not play Saturday but possibly a little on Monday. We shall see.

[richardjackson199]

My guess is that they are waiting for him to be back to full strength and pain free. This stretch of games works to the team's favor in that regard. Tre is too valuable to rush back. They of course have to balance this layoff/recovery with his getting rusty, as it usually takes a few games to get back into game shape. My guess is that he will not play Saturday but possibly a little on Monday. We shall see.

I don't know if it will be this game or the next game. It's not like it will be a month out

:cool:

[devildeac]

Reminiscent of Bobby Hurley coming back off a foot injury in 1992. Attacked his rehab and set new standards on the StairMaster. Didn't want to miss the fun.

From A Season Is A Lifetime (paraphrased/summarized):

"Hurley spotted Bilas's record of 759 floors...

When Bilas came in the next day, he found a note from Hurley-800 floors...

Not one to turn down an obvious challenge...

...there was another note-Bilas had hiked the mark to 856...

...Jay got me on that one...

...I kicked his I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.," Bilas said with a wide grin."

(Hmm, Bilas does need to be wankerized more:p.)

[Hancock 4 Duke]

Tre posted a picture on Instagram of him giving a thumbs up during a game, and the caption was *thumbs up emoji* *prayer hand emoji* *happy face smoji*
Shall we over analyze this?

[UrinalCake]

He also said Tre has been "living in the training room," working to get back.

I guess that’s better than training in the living room, which is what I have to do....

[BandAlum83]

It’s the DBR variation of my favorite geometric proof:

“Infinity exists, because for every X there is an X+1.”

Sorta like the longest thread.

[peterjswift]

Tre posted a picture on Instagram of him giving a thumbs up during a game, and the caption was *thumbs up emoji* *prayer hand emoji* *happy face smoji*
Shall we over analyze this?

I don’t think it needs to be over analyzed. I think it is pretty clear that Trey is just really excited and happy about his prayer life.

Kidding. I think this is an announcement, especially considering the likes and comments from various official Duke social media outlets. Trey plays tomorrow.

[NYBri]

I guess that’s better than training in the living room, which is what I have to do...

“You can sit here in the waiting room, or wait here in the sitting room.”

[TeacherTom]

I can't wait to get back to Syracuse with Tre at point. The guy down the hall from me is a Syracuse grad and I hear about the victory every day.

[camion]

“You can sit here in the waiting room, or wait here in the sitting room.”

"Oh, of course, sir. Koo-koo-kachoo…"

[AGDukesky]

I can't wait to get back to Syracuse with Tre at point. The guy down the hall from me is a Syracuse grad and I hear about the victory every day.

I guess when you know your team is inferior, you have to gloat about winning against undermanned teams. Even when it was obvious the result would have been far different without one freak injury (and illness)...